Anton Kusters (above) is one of the hardest working collaborators on the planet….Burn does not exist without Anton…the fact that he is jet lagged and needs a “time out” should be of no surprise….he jets back and forth from his home in Belgium to Japan, and his Yakuza project, and now just as easily to New York where he is crashing on the Burn office/gallery/crash pad sofa…he is here to work on BURN…we can do a lot by Skype, but one on one we can really get some work done….
what started out as an extension of my Road Trips blog and just a fun project with and for our audience here, has now blossomed into a seriously considered online media outlet/producer….all that has happened to Burn in the last few weeks is humbling to say the least….our nomination for a Lucie Award is flattering considering we are just a two person lap top from wherever operation at the moment… this was predicated by a nice mention of Burn on the New York Times “LENS” blog last week, whose progenitor, editor/ photographer James Estrin, just left my loft after meeting with my students for two hours…..David Walker, Senior Editor at PDN, this month did a nice, accurate, to the point Q&A interview with me in their magazine which always makes a strong push in the direction of young emerging photographers….The Digital Journalist guru Dirck Halstead at the same time wrote a strong editorial about the state of affairs for young photographers, and suggested that large funding operations direct some of their efforts in the direction of Burn, MediaStorm, 100 Eyes and other online efforts who pledge to pump lifeblood into a sagging industry….
so all at once, Burn has a place at the table ….organic…based on personal history and trust….working with the best people for all the right reasons, and all of it audience driven…..all of it…..funding for EPF, from you….donations which have kept our loft alive for office and gallery space, from you….submissions which have us now with more content than we can handle, from you….incidentally, i apologize for not being able to respond to every submission of photographs and every kind donation….we are way behind in viewing submissions and will soon employ a professional experienced editor to help, but i assure i view each and every submission…for those i like, i make contact as soon as possible, but please be patient…many many thanks to those of you who have given support….we could not have survived this long without you….
if now is the time for Burn to receive funding so that commissions can be given to the young generation and original work can be produced here for Burn from the iconic to the youngbloods, then OUR efforts here will be deemed someday to have been significant and historic… i just think that way….
so, let’s take this audience one step further….do i need your help? yes…. more pictures of course…but , what we all need now is to have a small first class team of grant writers and/or sales people to at least get me to the right person at the right kind of sponsorship venue…Burn is easy for me to pitch….really easy….first of all, it is not about me or my work(that is another problem!!)….Burn is about making a contribution to the new generation of photographers who express themselves either journalistically or artistically or both…..if you have any thoughts about potential funders and grant writing talent, please send them to Kerry Payne (photo below) who celebrated her 40th birthday at the Burn loft last night with our students toasted with Veuve Cliquot and Orios …Kerry is a hard core Aussie and should be recovered from last night’s modest bash by the time you send her an e-mail – kerry@burnmagazine.org….she is a biz person….do not write to Anton or to me, we are not….please please..
Anton and i cannot do any more than what Burn is now by ourselves…with just a little bit of help we can revolutionize….hey , is there anything better than the start up of a rock band in the garage?? yes, that is us….underground…underdog….full of enthusiasm…the best combo for creativity…
tomorrow we will go on with a live Q&A with Martin Parr…he will answer thought provoking questions from the readers here for two hours….Martin wants to do an original essay with first publication on Burn….i want to make that happen….and at the same time give concurrent commissions to two or three young less known photographers….i will make this happen….Martin, and Magnum , support this effort….a story on Alex and Rebecca Webb will follow soon behind, and they will be presenting at the Burn gallery event this friday evening where about 30 Burn audience photographers will be hanging on the same walls with Bruce Davidson, Elliott Erwitt, Gilles Peress, Susan Meiselas and Chris Anderson….we will try to invite likely print buyers and hope that someone who might collect an Erwitt would also buy a print from an emerging photographer…anyway, a nice thought…..oh yes, my loft students for the week are the highlight of the evening when they present their efforts for the week….we are hard at work on this show now…
so, this is a 24 hour time out from our normal programming….essays and singles from you will up again by tomorrow afternoon….but, this should give you all something to chew on….for one thing, do you take a time out right in the middle of when things are busy???
lullaby and good nite
go to sleep my civilian
close your eyes take a rest &
stop munching creme bavarians
Tragicomedy !!!
Provocateurs !
mornin all..
cremed bavarians sound tastier than a scotch egg.
4th day without rain .. astonishing.. dull, yes.. and astonishing.
Goodmorning BURNIANS,
I wish I can have some cremed bavarians with scrotched eggs BUT i have only feta cheese and tomato
available…
I wish I can have some cake, 2000 calories BUT it’s behind the glass bakery
…leftovers from the Lucie Award …hmmm…
I AM THE HAPPIEST CIVILIAN cause I have ALL of you … my BURNED little cupcakes !!!
P.S Our PATRICIA…your book will fall into the right Place, we count on you…DAVIDB kiss our Tor Capa.
KATIE your computer Lullaby along with the creme bavarians from MyGracie made me speechless or should I say sleepless …LOVEEEEEE from the Greekland… where are you PANOS ???
DAVIDB,
4th day with rain…astonishing…dull,yes…and astonishing
im right here ( in grecolandia ),
idiot….!!!
jeesus
PANOS,
did you get lost in the BURN aisles …hihihi…it seems that you are everywhere !!!
BURNIANS …scream all together …
I AM PHOTOGRAPHER !!! …
P.S hihihi…
malaka…………
David Bowen -4 days without rain? ….try 6 months , we’re in the midddle of Mango Season here and all the tell tale signs of the big wet are there.
Some seriously good work by a 23 year-old Belgian woman. Bieke Depoorter just won the Magnum Expression Award:
http://expression.magnumphotos.com/expression_award/index.php?p=finalists
The full series is on her website: http://www.biekedepoorter.be/
I just don’t get why Depoorter won anything for these photos. It seems to be a formula these days. You take a bunch of people (anywhere in the world) that all look like they have had frontal lobotomies and shoot a lot of either very sterile or very grainy photos of them (or both), and then name it some kind of photography that it really isn’t. And they give people awards for this stuff.
What’s wrong with sharp, clear photos of living people?
chocolate and espresso and editing photos!
Ha! Jim, well, yes. . . Bieke alternates between maxed out digital noise and bounced flash. However, I think it is quite well done and the noise almost looks like film grain. Certainly the concept of jumping off the Trans-Siberian railroad and showing up at random peoples’ homes and trying to spend the night with them is interesting and adventurous! I think she made some pretty intimate work given she was just throwing herslef into these peoples’ lives for a such a short period. Obviously the sort of people you find along the route in inner Russia are not Moscow’s nouveau riche. I have to say I am impressed with the work and to think Bieke only just turned 23. There is much more to come.
Digital noise has a nastier kick than film grain
……….home stays are some what the norm in the Eastern block countries, access can be pretty easy depending on how one wants to play the game, or in some cases pay the game.
There sure is a magnum photographic style creeping around……….
Imants:
and it was judged of course by Magnum photogs including Jonas Bendiksen of ‘Satellites’ fame. But I think Bieke’s work is quite good, personally. It follows a bit of a different path than recent work I have seen from the region. Any contest obviously reflects the tastes of the particular judges and the judges here were top notch.
There sure is a magnum photographic style creeping around………. big time not just here or at magnum. saturated large areas of colour, emphasis on crefull scrolling placement of object > space > person> space etc.
Davin, I liked that work too. I didn’t get very far on your link to her site though. I must be doing something wrong. I also liked Jorg Bruggman’s entry about tourists in India. I wouldn’t mind seeing that again. If I remember correctly, I found it funny. It was a few days ago I looked at it. I still haven’t got through the whole lot but there were a few good things in the pile.
Looking through those is tiring. I can’t imagine how awful/hard it must be to have to look through hundreds of essays a day or even as many as 30, ie for Burn.
BURNIANS…
We are all one big enormous Universal worldwide FAMILIA …What a familia…
We are THE BURN FAMILIA !!!
I am cooking spinach pie and patsa ( cows feet and stomach soup)
Come over BURNIANS …
P.S We are sending good energy around the Universe and to the MR.HARVEY’S FAMILY !!!
Flickr creeps in slowly but steady…
Flickr destroys photography… by giving it away for free… creating some sort of ..
oh man , i dont even wanna say it..
flickr is the EPITOMY OF DESPERATION…
sad day today for Burn…
people please resist…
resist
resist…
otherwise we will all end up in that huge massive endless pit of giving away everything for free…
Kathleen, plz do NOT renew your account there…
even if most photogs out there have a great job…even if most photogs in flickr are just amateurs ..
even if flickr looks just “innocent”…
people, i warn you…
dont buy that shit..
IMANTS got that bullshit immediately…
mediocrity…but thats not the main danger and disaster that mass flickrmania brought…
its mainly that it devalued the photogs work to the lowest level..
if your photo was worth one dollar, flickrmania made it sure it now values one cent…..
i refuse to even let a comment on the flickr page here in Burn…
but..
this is what makes DAH GREAT… this is why BURN is the best…
because it keeps the door open to all viruses and parasites..
flickr=mass photography..
flickr=never get paid
flickr=sell for nothing
flickr=cheap WHORE…
THANK U BURN…
pure democracy…
Burn feels just like me today…
self destructive and suicidal…..
( but dont worry, there’s always tomorrow…all we have to do is listen to music and …wait…:(
even if most photogs out there have a great job…
( a great DAY job, i meant….)
I’m gonna have to side with Jim on this one. I don’t see a single moment that draws one in.
Hey Panos
I’m with you on some points but not others.
I don’t necessarily equate Fuckr with mediocrity as there is some very good work but it does
represent a mindset that sort of devalues work by its sheer mass.
Rafal’s edit does reflect some of his personality (at least what little I assume based on images
and postings,here) but the group, as a whole, has no feeling to me.
He could probably go back in and reselect a thousand times and would come back with a similar,
interesting, but unfeeling set of images.
That a crowd-sourced group of images finds its way to Burn kinda disappoints me.
Marc yes, i agree…
nothing to do with rafal…he is a cool kid with good intentions i hope…
its just Fuckr that i can so clearly see through…
photography is being devalued enough these days..
every uncle has a 5D now and every shady publication is not giving
assignments anymore, they dont buy from getty or corbis…
they get everything from Flickr, Fuckr, whatever for free..
i have personal experience..
i photographed the rapper Busta Rhymes once for free…
i did the mistake to post it on Flickr 5 years ago…
ok , since then, every time Busta gets arrested i get the same emails over and over and
over through ass wipes that found my photos in flickr asking me to give them
my photos for free…!!1????????
my pay??????????? i get to keep the copyrights…..
so i photograph for free, they profit and i get to keep my day job…
people resist…
i know most folks they suck the devils dick to be published…
selfish little desperate souls…
killing photography…
resist..
stay away from flickr…
create your own thing if u can…
( again, all that have nothing to do with rafal’s curator new job.. he is not flickr..
i have flickr friends.. my great friend Jared i met through flickr… i thing he might have an opinion about all that…mass production fuckr disaster..)
That a crowd-sourced group of images finds its way to Burn kinda disappoints me.
yep…
sad day today….
flickr takes over….:(
flickr is great.
ordinary, derivative, formulaic and bland photography exists in such a huge quantity that the line between great and poor has become much more defined.. better understood by the general public.
it’s the digital revolution, and the huge number of people trying to sell or give away photography without any understanding of how the business works that is destroying photography as a living..
flickr is just an online storage resource with a token link of representation through getty..
i understand where it could stand for the mcdonalds of photography.. poor quality, cheap.. but you know.. we’re all sinners who’ve eaten a hamburger and dipped into flickrs bowls..
that’s okay – we just have to educate and make sure that more and more people understand the monetary value of photography.. because people are not going to cut back on their photography habit and flickr is going to do nothing but grow.
really though – flickr has not yet made me feel threatened.. most of it’s content is poor.. that which is ‘good’ is cliche and mimic, and that which is ‘great’ stands out in it’s utter rarity.
these days more than ever, if just anyone ‘could’ take a photo, the price it commands is low, (if it even gets passed over the marketing desk to the photographer in the first place).
if it’s a specialist subject there will always be a market.. personal an idiosyncratic will stand out.
cabbage is cheap and truffles are not.. and flickr has a lot of cabbages.
i think that there are a couple of photos in rafals presentation which, under another banner, would gain much more widespread popularity here.. maby as a single..
i think it’s daft to write anything off simply because of the storage devise used to present it..
and of course burn HAS to feature flickr.. burn is a contemporary magazine for education and discussion..
like it or not, (and i know some don’t), rafal has at least been brave enough to ‘out’ himself as a user, and contribute something which serves to benefit a number of photographers equally..
even if, like flickr itself, the end result is somewhat confusing in quantity and vastly disparate in quality.
d
Pete,
i here u man.. i hear u…
sorry for my rant…
its just that IMANTS nailed it and i couldnt help it…
ok , i hope im done..:(
So, is this all about good photography, or being paid? How many on-line sites are paying these days?
So, everyone can afford an awesome camera these days, everyone is taking pictures, we are awash in images, this is a bad thing?
Yes, times were easier when people used to hire me because I carried a big camera worth thousands of dollars, I knew how to twiddle all them little levers and dials, and my pictures always “turned out”. Now, millions of people carry i-phones and and snap pictures daily.
Today a $500 dslr set on “P” will make spectacular images. Image making has become democratized. You have no idea how many of my customers are photo-shop savy. Those people have a greater appreciation for what I do, and are still more than willing to hand over their credit cards
The world has changed. Welcome to the 21st century. I’m excited by what is happening to photograhy, including sites like flickr.
panos mate – being cheeky about it, you can always delete your account http://www.flickr.com/photos/innerspacecowpanos/
:o)
Panos:
u r a hypocrite….
BURN IS CROWD SOURCED, PERIOD…and guess what, you gave your pictures away fOR FREE…at Burn….at Austin SLPS…at Redconverse…etc etc etc….and it is NOT a sad day for Burn….it is a different matter all together….
1) BURN came from David’s readers, david’s students, david’s friends, david’s colleagues…and yes Rafal was on flickr and met david, spoke with david and wrote/communicated with David LONG LONG before you even stepped into his life….that one of the photographers/writers/reader’s here came up with an idea and offered it to David and David published it is NOT A SAD DAY…what is a sad day is your continual double-dealing bullshit….
2) i didnt like all the pictures and yes, i wouldn’t necessary have made the edit (we all would do something different) but having created/curated/edited a year long international photo project for photographers (that has included some of the people here, like John vink), i can tell you how damn hard it is, how much criticism (personal and professional) you get from all the negative mentalities….and you, who contintually talk about INTEGRITY, are the first one here to betray, public and privately….
3) Burn is about change….i dont like everything here, shit, i dont even like all the work, but one thing that goes undenied is that Burn continues to attempt to offer work to viewers, offer venues for photographers (including you) who did not have the same venues…
it’s brilliant how narrow people’s minds are when they imagine themselves to be open….
Pete: i didnt….i wrote what i wrote….my favorite work on Burn, not by a long shot, some strong images (yes), some weak ones, yes of course….
y’all talk talk talk about the mediocrity of the work, how about the mediocrity of the viewer’s understanding of this;
WHY MIGHT DAVID HAVE CHOSEN TO RUN THIS???….
think y’all
cheap shots and it sounds like a forest of folks who’ve got nothing better than to chirp….
im no fan of flickr (on the issue of photo-useage/copyright/bitchfests) either, but if y’all cant see the relationship between Abrazada and Roadtrip/Burn, y’all need to re-think the last 3 years….
anyone remember David’s assignments and what that has produced???….BEFORE BURN??…
remember Island (kyung-hee)…Park Slope….Rafal’s FamilyTies….Lances’ Rodeo……and my own book, the middle part, came from something david assigned at roadtrips…
Crowd Sourcing….
pETE; maybe i should have had a joint….
pathetic, the mentality that creeps in here
b
“and of course burn HAS to feature flickr..”
No, it doesn’t HAVE to. Burn chose to feature Flickr.
Flickr has evolved to be more than simply a storage medium. It is almost a movement
and is now being opportunistically harvested by Getty.
By DAHs own admission he has years worth of submissions ready to go by individuals who could potentially realize valuable opportunities by being published here.
For non-working Flickr contributors publication here is nothing more than a badge.
That quality images are available at Flickr is not in question.
david…
if u would bother to read my comments u would see that i got fucked by flickr,
read my busta rhymes story above… through my account they find it..
but ok.. u r a great detective either way…:(
and DB ( cheeky also )..
i wish i could remember how to delete my account…
:))))
@ Panos
I don’t really see how you got fucked by Flickr.
When you put photos on Flickr it doesn’t automatically wipe the part of your brain that lets you say “no” to requests for free images (although Flickr does happen to attract a lot of people who say “yes”).
I’ve had my own web site for 6 years and received loads of request for the use images on my web site — the vast majority of which turned out turned out to be from people trying to get something for nothing or virtually nothing. In those cases, I said “no”, of course.
The only time someone has offered me an amount that seemed reasonable enough to say “yes” happened to be via Flickr. I was contacted, agreed a price, and evil Flickr never got a penny…
i did read it panos..
anyway.. onward..
d
“i photographed the rapper Busta Rhymes once for free…
i did the mistake to post it on Flickr 5 years ago…
ok , since then, every time Busta gets arrested i get the same emails over and over and
over through ass wipes that found my photos in flickr asking me to give them
my photos for free”
?!
done.. off for the night..
enjoy y’all..
d
KATHLEEN F
You mentioned the possibility of changing the rule to two per essay – I’ve thought for a while maybe one-per-essay till the next essay goes up, THEN free for all for debates – the less involved people having moved on. Too complicated?
ERIC E
Entirely random observation on skateboarding in Brussels: I visited a few weeks ago to see the Bruegels in the Musees then pilgrimaged down to Notre Dame de la Chapelle to see his memorial plaque there. I saw there was a busy, grafitti-covered skate park just across the road from the church, and thought how much old Pieter would have approved of that scene…
“For non-working Flickr contributors publication here is nothing more than a badge.”
i don’t get this.. ?
many of the people featured here are not working photographers.. many see it as a badge.. and if i bothered to look back i reckon some of the essays even link to peoples flickr sites..
storm in a teacup..
un
able
to
bother
now
d
one more thing..
if you’re interested in phtoography – you have probably used flickr..
it MEANS NOTHING about your sincerity towards your photography.. it is just a storage devise..
a movement in photography? maybe so – BRING IT ON.. i am a phtoographer interested in the evolution and development of the medium.. which is only 150 years old.. and has vastly changed in the past 10 years.. exciting.. exciting..
bit of snobbery.. bit of job insecurity.. bit of bull.. all going on here..
again though – flickr and the general publics use of photography is here to stay.. and at the same time so is the vastly improved method for getting your work seen..
a site magazine which can show parr and people in a flickr group has the whole base of contemporary photography covered, in terms of education.. and that’s why i think burn had to feature flickr at some point to remain relevant.
if we shoot better pictures, whatever we use to show them will seem meaningless in the long run..
d
Panos
Flickr is representative of the world of photography. Everyone is allowed to post whatever the hell they want. It´s just like public streets. Among the millions who plod along the sidewalks on their way to who knows where, only one in every so many is supremely talented, supremely capable, supremely intelligent. Should only these people be allowed to walk the sidewalks in the effort to keep our cities free of mediocrity? Well, well, fuc**ng well, Panos..so now we know who/what you are. As much a snob as Stieglitz when he sniffed disdainfully that every one and his brother was now a photographer just because they could get an image onto a light sensitive plate. But, as he also so reluctantly agreed, surely it must be just dumb luck repeating itself over and over that some of those peasants seemed to produce more than their fair share of keepers.
I once said i´d die before i ever joined flickr. Then i joined. And i quickly found some real talent. I also found the know-it-all´s ruling their flickr feifdoms like total despots. haha..but there´s a lot of humble talent creating work in total obscurity at Flickr. Never get comments, rarely get views but they keep pumping the work out. They don´t come onto Burn Magazine, the Lucie award winner posting links to their impossibly large, unedited rummage sale slideshows to whoever will give a click. I am directing that comment at you, Panos.
What a snob..i mean, WHAT a snob! So what, you posted a photo that keeps getting you unwanted attention..are you bragging or complaining? Take your photo, put it back on your hard drive where no one will see it and where no one will ask you to give it to them for free. You shot all those people in little Salvador and posted them on the web. Did you give them anything, even so much as a thank you, for the priviledge of using their face?
Don´t begrudge these strangers for finding themselves improbably published at Burn Magazine when all they expected was to contribute their idea of a family photograph to a Flickr Family group. Hurrah for them! Hurrah for Rafal for having a good eye and appreciating the work of these people and bringing it here so we can appreciate it. I frankly get really tired of essays about poor people, boxers, human suffering. I think DAH´s decision to post Rafal´s collection was a brave one, an exciting one and a mst generous one. I hope to see more collections like this soon!
Panos, guy i love ya, but to all here equating Flickr with mediocrity, i say the same thing. Walk yourself over there and find a photo that you like. Click on some of the people who left comments on that photo and you´ll find more work that you like. Pretty soon you´ll have your work cut out for you just trying to keep up with it all. Welcome to your corner of the Flickr world. Like Eminem says (sort of), Flickr, it is whatever it is you say it is.
kathleen
Mark W
Hey, i like that idea a lot! It´s a good balance between the total chaos of open comments and the silencing effect of only one comment. The published photographer can comment all he likes and we have to button our lips. I noted with some amusement under the photo, The Saboteur, the person who came up with the one comment rule posted THREE comments. When DAH comes back, please suggest it to him or if you aren´t around, with your permission, i will! It would be great to have the essay turn into an open forum at some point and only those most interested would contribute.
best
Kathleen
http://conversesrouges.com/2009/10/17/fuck-405-south-mexicoooooo/#comments
laughing…
plz post there… its free….
“…Oh, and Bob… Exactly how much dope do you smoke? (grinning)…”
( Pete,i wish i have wrote that first…laughing..i can smell the canadian chronic from 2000 miles away..)
;0
I’ve mentioned Bert Hardy before so thought I’d post this.
http://www.photohistories.com/Photo-Histories/50/the-life-and-times-of-albert-hardy-1913-1995?pg=all
Cheers
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_D7BO-iIFIl0/SJLO8x-TJ5I/AAAAAAAAAbM/kE2uOOwlxAI/s1600-h/01520032.jpg
kathleen.. ON THE MONEY
you made me laugh for the first time since i read rafal lableing jims comment a ‘brain fart..’.. like, really chucking right now about it again..
brain fart..
haha..
going to steal that one.
d
This is OUR BURN FAMILY** !!!
WIKIPEDIA: **Family denotes a group of people or animals… affiliated by a consanguinity, affinity or co-residence. Although the concept of consanguinity originally referred to relations by “blood,” anthropologists[who?] have argued that one must understand the idea of “blood” metaphorically, and that many societies understand ‘family’ through other concepts rather than through genetic distance…
One of the primary functions of the family is to pee…
FLICKER ***
WIKIPEDIA: **The Northern Flicker (Colaptes auratus) is a medium-sized member of the woodpecker family…This bird’s call is a sustained laugh, ki ki ki ki…Like many woodpeckers, its flight is undulating. The repeated cycle of a quick succession of flaps followed by a pause creates an effect comparable to a rollercoaster.
BURN is BURNing again …WHAT NOT TO LOVE !!!
“One of the primary functions of the family is to pee…”
that’s the third genuine belly chuckle .. in a row.. i’m still laughing about brain farts for goodness sake..
sorry ross…
ross posted this..
http://www.photohistories.com/Photo-Histories/50/the-life-and-times-of-albert-hardy-1913-1995?pg=all
it’s interesting..
made me think that i wish the picture post was still about..
then i remember looking at some astonishing photos from inside gaza last winter..
on flickr..
they were passed all around the world..
and i missed the picture post a little less.
right.. going to take my dinosaur, (it’s a slugosaurus) for a ride around the block and make a cup of tea..
d
It seems that all you Photographers have very flexible middle fingers :)))
I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL…
Can I go to sleep now or you will BURN the roof …???:)))
One thing is for sure, the photographs are far more interesting than the comments.
Yep flick is about mediocrity……….. the inability to edit……….. open slather……….. one of Getty’s born again children …………. snob all you want……….. yes parade your child on the net, but how dare someone else do it ………. they are evil….I don’t want my child on the http://www……... yes we all can do it just post post post we are all looking…… ok we aren’t really looking as we are too busy posting posting……..to edit what we have produced why it is all good…….. flickr the overfed bloated giant with nowhere to go but roll in it’s fat consumed…………we are all photographers now…….Eminem said so so it is true true true…….everything we do is to be posted for others to consume ………. all is good all is better bleat bleat post post post post post ………. Hey my picture is on the cover of Time and I got thirty bucks…..ripped off man I got nothing they pulled it from that new site where I checked the little box………………… and so we post another image on flickr