moonlight ramble…

Diego (Creative Director of Burn 02) and i are sitting on my front porch…sipping  a tequila, enjoying the total quiet…Burn of course comes up even though we have both agreed not to talk about Burn…but we have a question…for you..our question to all of you is this, and it is a serious question as we often think about in our comment section, which is always the topic of conversation when it comes to change…

anyway, the question is this: why are the numbers of comments often in direct inverse proportion to the quality of the essay? exceptions of course….yet think about it…go back and look…do some quick research…not a challenge, just a real interesting thing to think about…probably a simple answer…now, sure we all to give and take a bit on my tastes etc etc..but what i am talking about are stories over time of all tastes…

by the way, this magazine would be dead as a doornail if i actually set out to consciously please this audience…the more time goes on, the less i am interested in any kind of outside support…all the more reason for me not to try to over please….yes of course i want you to be happy…but that is another concept…whomever wants to be here will just be here….no advertising, no weird pressure… the bullet: i think in the very near future i can pull the top pro talents together to create a serious tour de force and still have Burn be an all important first step for an i really want to get there photographer….seems needed doesn’t it??

yes, as usual i have crazy ideas…but as you also know i make at least some of them come true…when i was a kid , i always wanted my imagination to be real….and so thus i have lived… i have an idea, actually easy to do, that if i laid it out right now, some might just steal it….maybe nobody can steal it…all of my ideas for Burn have always been transparent….and i am sure this will be too…just need to sit on it for a few days….anyway, all to good end is always my motive….i do not need any more stuff…my porch good enough forever….i just want to work to make cool things happen….squeeze the most out of talent and knock viewers between the eyes or spawn a subtle visual sensibility….

ok, back to the porch…


641 Responses to “moonlight ramble…”

  • i sure would hate to be that essay that has a lot of comments…
    not sure really what you’re trying to get to, DAH…

    alls i know youre doing a good thing here and youve helped a lot of people.. quiet or not.

  • OK, David, since you said you were involved in making this post, I had to look. First of all, I don’t think I’ve ever commented here, but maybe, who knows. That said, I have seen some of the essays/portfolios, et al, and I have been most impressed by many of them. A thought occurs to me, especially after attending the recent opening in SA. There is a vast spectrum of visual sense/sensitivity among the Burn readership, and I just wonder if the best of the work is not appreciated by many of the readers.

    I understand that that is a divisive statement, but it’s either accurate, or it’s not. It is also possible that the readership does appreciate the difference between the best and the good and see no reason to comment on the best but are quick to be supportive of the “good.”

    There is my one penny’s worth.

  • David, if the essay is good, there really is nothing much to say other than “Wow, that is good” in various forms. It’s only the ones that leave you wanting that I want to say something. For example, what can you say about the Grand Canyon besides that it is a might big hole, or that the Great Wall is a very long great wall?

    When it is a home run, we just stand there with our mouths open, enjoying the sensation.. and cheer.

  • David; “i just want to work to make cool things happen…”

    I think that should be the prime goal for every photographer; Panos and Kim have recently shown the way. Think outside the square etc.

    But also; don’t cool things happen when you just make a point of actually doing things? That (I think) is Burn’s major point of difference; things actually get done. I’m not only talking about the happenings on Burn, but the things swirling around it that have been inspired by Burn too.

    People are actually producing work; often beavering quietly away in the background. Burn also acts as a conduit; bringing so many of us together. Those meetings; whether they be actual physical meetings, or for me mostly Skype (face to face) or text, email or FB; have been hugely beneficial for me. (And probably for many of us who live way out in the hinterland!)

    They have been a spur to keep producing work; and more importantly; have given me the push to attempt to produce better work! All pretty cool things!

    If it weren’t for Burn how would I have been able to meet and actually chat to you; Panos and Kim, Patricia, Imants, Paul etc? All have been helpful when I’ve been in one of those “what the hell am I doing this for?” phases… :-)

  • DAVID,

    You ask MY old quiestion in this post. So, no answer… or no quick answer… or just painful answer.
    I’am curious what new Idea you have.

  • “why are the numbers of comments often in direct inverse proportion to the quality of the essay?”

    maybe if you look at how you phrased the question, it will provide the answer itself.

  • I’m not sure the comments serve much purpose other then to provide a core group of posters a venue to advance their schtick. Our opinions and responses are consistent, predictable. Sometimes I think we could streamline the process by simply posting our names under a topic and letting observers fill in our thoughts.

    My concern is that Burn seems to become progressively more unfocused. “Quirky” and “eclectic” can be the more respectable side of schizophrenic, and Burn feels more the latter than the former lately. While I understand that David has all kind of loyalties, I’ve always argued that the greatest value in a platform like Burn is providing a venue for the truly emerging photographers, the best of the previously “unseen” photographers out there. And while I understand the draw of the Iconic Photographers, and the way they can attract resources, their inclusion in the mix seems to me to simply overwhelm what I liked about the original concept of Burn…a platform for the undiscovered.

    Everything must evolve. Especially in Internet time, standing still is not an option. But Burn seems to be not evolving, but morphing into something completely different. And I think that a little sad, because I thought the original concept was spot on in this difficult time for serious new photographers.

  • Gracie said something very important: i sure would hate to be that essay that has a lot of comments…

    Because of the very question you asked DAH, “why are the numbers of comments often in direct inverse proportion to the quality of the essay?”

    On any given post, upon review, you will find various ones posting that day in a very different place than the one before. Folks have experienced set-backs, rewarding efforts, an emotional spill, thrill of being discovered, and all types of experiences human beings go through on any given day.

    One of the things you taught me DAH was that a photographer sees everything through his eyes so the story he tells is his own. When we view an essay or single photo we are doing the same–seeing it through our own filter. That filter can be colored by any one of the reasons mentioned above. Seeing an essay as quirky or eclectic will be decided on by the viewer’s own experiences of that phase of their day/life.

    Regarding Jim’s comments on evolving–there is a predictable evolution to any successful endeavor such as Burn. Those that have emerged yet are still not widely recognized will see it as a venue for their further emerging. I have no problem with the mix of the famous with the not famous, it adds value in that the famous see it as a viable means of getting their photos seen. It helps all of those that are truly just emerging and have yet to experience an article in National Geographic or Time Magazine.

    Personally, the growth that the study of photography and what I have learned from Burn go way beyond the fact that I have a beautiful book in the editing stages. Yes, your teaching is what helped that book to emerge. However, I believe that photography has taught me more about life and what it means to be a human being on this earth than how to take a photo or edit an essay. Photography, and the essays in this magazine, have taught me how to see life from the other fella’s place.

    I am excited to see where this goes. I remember the days in the beginning when you challenged your readers to find a name for a magazine idea you had. I remember thinking Burn didn’t quite do it for me but in retrospect it is just that. Burn has burned away the chaff and the truly emerging are doing just that. Many, many I am sure not even in the limelight getting “direct inverse proportion to the quality of the essay” comments here on Burn.

    Your giving has produced a mother lode. As is the nature of giving…

  • What a question! Why people do or do not respond to an essay depends on much, but the way in which the essay incites a reaction, and the way readers respond to it, is as informative to me as is the way I react to the essay. Quite often an essay here will be beyond my grasp, and it takes the comment’s of others to allow me to open up to the concept and context previously hidden. It’s really a simple exercise, and a surprise that this is the sort of thing I haven’t really found anywhere else but here on BURN.

    It may be tautological, but my experience has been that artists I’m attracted to are generally expressive either through the written or verbal word. They may not want to talk about their work (although many can, and do) but they can certainly talk the game. I’ve been to enough of their lectures, and read enough of their writing’s, to notice that those who have something to say through their work, can also express themselves by other means. There are many here that can do that.

    So, it seems to me that any emergent photographer who desires notice needs to be heard. Rarely does their work alone give enough voice for my full appreciation; I want to know more about them through other means. The readers here who are emerging photographers, and who do contribute actively through constructive criticism under an essay, or by musing under Dialogue, are those that have my favoured attention.

  • I don’t buy the premise. Just looking at a couple essays that got picked up for Burn 02 — Wilcox and Frankfurter — which you obviously consider among the best, I see they both got a fair amount of comment. I’m tempted to say it’s more like the safer essays get the fewest comments, but I don’t think that’s accurate either. I suspect that the ones with the most comments are typically ones in which conversations crossed over from dialogue that had little, if anything to do with the essay. And you, David, have said that you don’t understand why anyone would want to publicly make a negative comment about someone else’s work, that the hi-end professionals you know simply don’t act that way, which is a powerful argument for approbation or silence. And Bob gets so upset at anything that can be remotely perceived as negative, I worry that saying anything the least bit critical will cause him to collapse from weariness (smiley face).

    So I’m not quite clear on what you see as the purpose of comments. Are they for universal approbation? Constructive criticism? An invitation to talk photography, albeit possibly at the emotional expense of the photographer in question? Some people like criticism, others don’t. How to tell? If the choice is perceived as universal approbation or silence, of course the comments will be boring and few. But if we want an educated, open discussion of photography, feelings will be hurt. Oh what a world… what a world…

  • Jim,

    Your first paragraph made me laugh out loud. Can’t say I agree with all your comments in your second and third paras but you have put your points over in a wonderfully clear manner. Cheers.

  • . I’m tempted to say it’s more like the safer essays get the fewest comments, but I don’t think that’s accurate either. I suspect that the ones with the most comments are typically ones in which conversations crossed over from dialogue that had little..

    MW, i agree! (safer/”boring” essays =(usually) fewer comments)…
    “cool”/controversial way more comments (think MCB Libya iphone essay)etc…

  • I think there are several variables that go into the comments. The essays people really love AND hate seem to get alot of comments, as does the essays that split the groups opinion. Essays that really challenge Burn readers gets comments. The ones that seem to get passed over are the “middle of the road” or expected.

    Reminds me of one of my favorite films, Amadeus. Salieri wasn’t great, but wasn’t bad either. As he put it, “I speak for all mediocrities in the world. I am their champion. I am their patron saint.” And he was forgotten.

  • DAVID,

    “….knock viewers between the eyes or spurn a subtle visual sensibility….”

    Please pardon my (predictable?) pedantry… I suspect you intended something like “spur” or “spawn” but it came out “spurn” which may not be what you intended…

    Which brings up a point about the comments and dialog… I probably should only speak for myself (but I dare to think it may be true for others) that reading the dialog here, and occasionally contributing to it, is an important part of involvement in the process of seeing, thinking about, reacting to, and learning from the photography that is presented here, about the larger world and life of photography, and about self-expression. I’ve learned a lot from the comments over the last few years, and I’ve learned a lot by commenting as well. I freely confess that I have used “Road Trips” and BURN as an arena for lubricating and polishing my own ability to write and express myself. Of course BURN is about photography, but I think the words to talk about and think about photography are important too.

    I have been impressed over and over again, David, by your tolerance and forbearance in the sometimes unseemly give and take… and your ability to juggle these forces into an utimately very positive direction. Sometimes when things turn a bit negative or abrasive in the comments or dialog I feel that is unfortunate, but in retrospect that may also be an important part of the educational and mind-expanding function of BURN. Another dimension of people learning to express themselves, and gaining a vocabulary that will enrich and “spur” or “spawn” a “subtle visual sensibility.”

    I like what Lee Guthrie, Jeff Hladun, and MW said above as well…

  • As he put it, “I speak for all mediocrities in the world. I am their champion. I am their patron saint.” And he was forgotten.

    BRIAN! BRILLIANT comment! thank you!!!!!!!!!!

  • SIDNEY! Yes yes and yes!
    (ALL, plz do NOT forget to ride your bicycles from times to times -either before or after commenting its ok-and do not skip a day)
    (btw, preparing a new premiere party this Saturday im expecting some new prints in the mail and new clientele..lets see what happens in SMARTart gallery in a couple of also curious!)

  • My concern is that Burn seems to become progressively more unfocused. “Quirky” and “eclectic” can be the more respectable side of schizophrenic, and Burn feels more the latter than the former lately.
    Jim, my good friend, what is sooooo broken over here that needs so badly to be fixed????


    many thanks for catching my careless error…everybody needs a good copy editor…ironically, among the Burn staff we all agree our biggest challenge is text, not pictures….getting accurate and interesting and correct text is a mountain to climb…..your comment now resonates and is the most solid reasoning for comments that i can recall…..your perspective and opinion most valued….

    cheers, david

  • Yes, what Sidney said.

    I have to agree with much of what has been written above. Wether a flurry of comments, or only a few, both have occured with strong and not so strong essays. Controversy triggers more discussion.

    Burn has been pretty quiet as of late, maybe time to fan the flames.

  • I believe this is a lot simpler than folks think. People thrive on confrontation in these types of forums. (politics, religion, cupcake making… doesn’t matter) Forums that have nothing but happy, happy, joy, joy commentary practically do not exist. Confrontation, criticism, controversy, etc… it’s what “sells.”

  • Ha! I now see Gordon’s comment. Cheers!

  • Panos says: Jim, my good friend, what is sooooo broken over here that needs so badly to be fixed????

    Nothing is broken. It is what it is. Just a personal observation. How ever I feel about it, I think the whole “stream of consciousness” flow of Burn is by design (or maybe not :)

  • ROSS

    yes, indeed…i have been so busy lately that i have not had a chance to take a close look at what happened in San Antonio, but whatever it was the herculean marketing efforts of Kim and Panos surely defied gravity and conventional wisdom….love it when that happens……i have never heard of that many prints selling so fast…i have no idea who bought the prints , nor the prices, nor the exact circumstances, but i will know soonest…whatever the case may be , it happened ….by the way, any funds which come to Burn from the Panos/Kim effort will be applied to putting a photographer here on assignment…that is our goal, our only goal….


    first of all , super congrats on selling a print in the Panos/Texas phenomena…nice…my question was of course rhetorical…i have no need of an actual answer for there are too many variables….the rhetoric and the question arise often among us because we all feel that we wish there was more serious discussion here..not discussion on any philosophical line, but just discussion on a high plane..on the best of essays (or any essay actually), we notice approximately 10-15 comments on the essay itself and then the chat drifts to another topic entirely….again, i am not talking about positive comments, i am just talking about any meaningful comment on the essay or the topic of the essay…..on the other hand what happens here in the comment section is harmless at worst….a room to hang out….cool….enjoy


    again, i think you are confusing Burn with the Burn comments..quiet in comments is a bit ironic since never has so much been going on….we are sending photographers on assignment….we have a print magazine…we are publishing books and selling books at a phenomenal rate by photo book major publishing standards…..well known photographers in our biz, after 02, are calling me to get published here… all of this is in very small ways, but big for us does not matter, we simply want good….neither Anton, nor Diego, nor i want a job…heavy sponsorship or advertising would mean a job for us…we are going another route i think…i will literally have to disappear from Burn by the end of the month to go to RIO to finish the book…exhibition opens May 2012…that is tomorrow for me…so Burn for me will remain a very serious avocation, but never will be my primary drive…i just have too much of my own photography to do right now….three books on deck…darkroom printing etc etc…

    so the Burn “brand” might take on a different kind of meaning than just a “photo blog”…there is an assumption that a brand must do the same thing , over and over…i do not buy that…i think that Burn can be a blog one day, a print magazine the next day, and a seminar the next..why do i have to publish or sponsor the same thing from one month to another? right now, i mean right now, we are sponsoring prints, books, workshops…on any given day through Twitter, Facebook, Magnum and Burn we can reach enough people to put together any number of exciting projects for a wide variety of tastes…why? well, i have a wide variety of photo and general art tastes, so why do i have to represent only one as has been the traditional mold? yes, my own work has a parameter … in one life, any photographer can only do maybe only 1-3 really leading edge books for example….i am going for RIO to be one of them…which could mean it will be a disaster…to do something great , you must go to the edge…this could mean falling off the cliff, or could mean soaring as never before…same with Burn…another type of creative effort…a collaboration….more like making a movie, than being in it…

    if you study the history of Road Trips and Burn , you will see that the “norm” has been defied all along…my whole career list of so called “accomplishments” always always always, had a whole group of naysayers shouting in my ear at every turn…i am used to it…i smile and just keep doing whatever it was i was doing…now the irony of this is that folks only see my output , nobody can see my listening, and reading, and total appreciation of other artists – my absorbing of the work of others…i absorb, then do…pretty simple equation…i recommend it!!

    i digress…sorry…send me some portraits Gordon…let’s show what you do…always a pleasure to have you here….and of course assuming we will meet at some point….

    cheers, david

  • Many great answers already….I like and agree with Brian Frank and MW the most.
    There is lots of crossover from different essays and dialogues. After a few pages of comments they are not even related to the essay. I don’t think that’s a bad thing but perhaps the photographer might not appreciate it. But I don’t think that has been an issue…has it?
    BURN is still doing it’s “purpose”…a venue for the emergent photographer and the amazing EPF grant!

    I also have learned and continue to learn everyday that I spend here and that comes from both the essays and the comments. They are both important!

  • MW….

    you are correct of course…or at least with the examples you gave….still it is a feeling among everyone who actually is involved with Burn, not only me….the purpose of comments? for me, i only see online Burn and everything connected to it , as educational in nature…if it goes off this line in comments, then i see no purpose for the comment section…so this is our question also to each other…the only “final product” of Burn is what we do in print…magazines, books…the rest, online, is “backstage” building, audience AND content…..i would just like that backstage frenzy to be as finally productive as possible….and maybe it is ….looking for perfection does not mean expecting perfection…thanks for your insights, as usual…

    cheers, david

  • A lot of the commentary here points out the gap between the photographer’s stated intentions (in the artist’s statement) and the photos themselves. Many of the claims photographers make are silly and clearly not intended for a BURN audience of photographers and fellow travelers. There seems to be a need for photographers to justify their imagery and technique in grand terms. This is true not just of BURN photogs but of shooters in general. Salagado, for example, claimed to be able to photograph his subjects’ souls. It’s rare to have a place to talk back to a photographer about the claims he or she makes about the work.

    Part of the beauty of BURN is the informality — Panos’ tacking a bunch of our prints to gallery wall in Texas; Chris Anderson in DAH’s loft showing his Haitian crossing pictures and saying that he felt he needed to shoot them, even though he and everyone else in the rickety boat were about to die, just because they were important to him personally and would never be seen by a living soul; DAH’s funny little Instagram comic book.

    The sensibility here is one of play, of people enjoying each other’s company and the often good work some of us are lucky enough to produce.

    So when one of the super-serious, save-the-world essays appears on the site, and the photographer makes grand claims for the importance of the work and his place in history, some us find it hard to resist making a comment.

    I think artist’s statements here should be limited to basic contextual information (names, locations, etc.), without all the annoying posturing. At the end of the day, I don’t really care what a photographer thinks about his own work. I am capable of forming my own opinion without the photographer telling me why it’s so important.

  • To tell the truth I find the comments rather unnecessary. I think Burn has outgrown comments. One of the reasons I stopped interfacing much is because it just didn’t seem like it was about photography but all the other things of political, etc., nature. And while that is a great thing for a specific blog for that purpose, I see Burn as a showcase for essays & photography as a creative force for change. Most of the time I do not comment but always look at the work and read the writing of the photographer. On occasion I do dialogue but it feels almost as if I need to to keep up my membership. That make sense? It is more to press the Like button for the photographer who is being featured than to really express that much. Maybe we just need a Like button.

    I like this discussion because it has kept to the original question and is about the evolution of Burn.

  • Good thoughts Preston. That was one of the things I wanted to voice but didn’t know how to.

  • DAH – would a group essay of the “Occupy” protests from all over the US be of interest? Perhaps an occasional group effort on a topic is an idea that could find a home in an evolving Burn.

  • “I am capable of forming my own opinion without the photographer telling me why it’s so important.”


    Couldn’t have said it better.

  • DAVID,

    By the way, I LOVE the title photo above… the posture, lighting and features of the young lady are very reminiscent of Botticelli, and the background is straight out of an Albert Pinkham Ryder painting.

  • I LIKE Brian’s idea. There is no Occupy here but the other idea of a group essay on a selected topic could be a lot of fun.

  • I don’t read all of the comments, not even close…

    But from what I see of them when they are under specific essays or works in progress, they offer opinions both positive and negative and occasionally useful thoughts or info. But very often they do go off topic. But perhaps that is just the nature of them. However I would question how “educational” the essay comments are.

    The dialogue posts and associated comments seem to me to be more educational and have more of that workshop feel which David often talks about Burn being.

    Just a thought while I’m writing this but perhaps the comments section on Burn could be presented in a different way. For example:

    Comments under essays become “questions for the photographer” or something along those lines.

    The dialogue posts continue pretty much as they are, based on specific themes, with the comments hopefully taking the form of an educational dialogue. It would be interesting if guest contributors also posted “dialogue” writings along with David.

    There could be a “miscellaneous” comments section for other things.

    I think the interviews that appear occasionally is some of the most interesting reading. So they could have their own section and become more prominent.

    Perhaps the introduction of a dedicated “online workshop” section could be interesting too. I guess these could be amongst the dialogue sections, but focused on specific “in the field” experiences that David or other photographers have where they post an image or series of images (ie. contact sheet) and explain what was happening, or what challenge / real life problem they were faced with while photographing and how they approached that.




    pretty funny Jim, since i do not recall you ever being supportive of Burn , even at the beginning…you have been the #1 naysayer of Burn….always…you have always represented the pessimistic side…yet, i have always liked you…and defend you then and now….disagree yes, but defend also yes…..and you do provide a nice relief and view of a hard bitten American newspaper photographer, a breed i know well, and have a deep fondness for , even while totally disagreeing with their aesthetic…

    but Jim you should at least look at the facts which you often twist around and turn into non facts…not good newspaper journalism i might add…

    you used to complain, “hey what is the point, these photographers are not getting paid, this is just an exercise”…so , we started paying photographers…you never acknowledged this…not just the icons but any who we felt deserved support…i do think the icons here ARE VERY IMPORTANT…they DO support the emerging…and it is only the emerging who are receiving grants and 75% of the assignments coming just as i promised from the very beginning…our ratio of 75% emerging and 25% iconic has never changed Jim…from day one to now, so i do not know why you think otherwise..again, scroll or flip through 02 or 01 or watch one of our slide shows…icons and emerging in the ratio as suggested…

    now, we are at at amazing point…the traditional media are watching us…what we could do right now is probably not what we will actually do right now…why? well, just because you can do something , does not mean you should do it…the vote among our staff is that we will remain boutique, not a big operation…as i wrote to Gordon, none of us want jobs…we MIGHT in 2012 go to a paywall for part of Burn..just imagine that we could have a $2. per year subscription for part of Burn that in effect would give us a photo budget larger than the photo budgets of any major magazine…read that line again….we have little overhead, so we could double the current day rates for photographers, and have major talent on assignment here, either iconic or emerging…and have a print magazine, the quality of 02, that would be way better than anything out there..for 2 bucks per year…will we actually do this? probably not..only because i cannot take on that job….fun as it would be, it would kill my work….so we will see how this evolves. so even in your sometimes dark view, surely you can see this a pretty damned interesting evolution of a simple photo blog…

    so i will go to RIO, work on my books, darkroom, disappear next month from Burn for maybe a whole year aside from occasional drop ins….cannot let THIS get in the way of my work…however, i have enjoyed my chats with you and hope you feel that at least some good has come out of all this…i never did have any kind of agenda and i am sure you well know that Road Trips and Burn just sort of “happened”…no plan…just organic or fate or however you want to look at it…

    please note Jim , that whatever we did do here, we did it with reader support and not advertising….nobody leans on us to do anything…surely you can appreciate that above all other things about Burn…

    in any case Jim, i always welcome your view even as it conflicts with mine…this is all a great joy and privilege….the best side of life…creative stuff going on and photography as a life , not just a description of something…

    whether you see the glass as half empty, or half full makes no difference..just pleased you are here, and if you suddenly became an optimist , i would really start to worry :)

    cheers, david


    pleased you like the lead shot here…the woman is Gaye Kozanli Ajoy, an intern at Magnum from Turkey …

    i shot it two days ago with my iPhone, dusk available light, no photoshop, no filters, straight up…

  • Comments are somehow the main caption of the photos essays. The audience takes possession of the essay, and write a living caption in place of the authors, who sometimes also join the commenting game.
    A few comments for inspiration, a few for history of art, for english grammar and photo grammar,
    for opened sensitivity, humor or verbal fight, spot influences and broken rules, to explain the intent, reveal the background, etc.
    Maybe some of the “best” visual essays are universal enough to talk without words, needing no text caption, and as such don’t induce comments, living everybody muted in front of the icon?

  • David, I attempted to quickly research the number and type of comments per essay but quickly gave up: too many!
    I know that the “comments question” comes up regularly with Diego, Anton, yourself etc. and that you have mentioned that you receive advice from e.g. publishers and industry insiders etc. that you should definitely drop the comments if you wish to become a serious vehicle for photography (although remember that they are following where you are leading).

    My own reason for commenting are as follows:
    I love the essay and I want to congratulate the photographer
    I have a question e.g. the motives of the photographer / technical question / how did you get access etc.
    I have read other comments and I wish to add to the debate.

    If I really don’t like the essay I usually tend not to comment: we all have our own tastes and thank God they are not all the same. If I can’t say at least something positive I won’t comment.

    I too would like to see a more in-depth discussion of photography here – although I also find the present comments under an essay worth reading. Perhaps that’s the problem: you (the team) can’t decide if you want a loose free-flowing debate or more in-depth debate (if that is possible on the Internet). Do you want to inform your audience or be informed (and entertained) by them?

    If you remove comments who will be your audience? Who are you trying to reach? I would imagine that the vast majority of people who have contacted you via Burn have been commenters first. True?

    I suppose that you could remove comments for a while and monitor site traffic.

    You write to Gordon “so the Burn “brand” might take on a different kind of meaning than just a “photo blog”…there is an assumption that a brand must do the same thing , over and over…i do not buy that…i think that Burn can be a blog one day, a print magazine the next day, and a seminar the next..why do i have to publish or sponsor the same thing from one month to another? ” – it doesn’t; you have a sophisticated audience that are able to follow the roller-coaster. It doesn’t have to be comments or no comments: it can be “sometimes” comments when you think that they may be interesting.

    Just for the record, thanks for Burn.


  • “I know that the “comments question” comes up regularly with Diego, Anton, yourself etc. and that you have mentioned that you receive advice from e.g. publishers and industry insiders etc. that you should definitely drop the comments if you wish to become a serious vehicle for photography (although remember that they are following where you are leading).

    If you remove comments who will be your audience? Who are you trying to reach? I would imagine that the vast majority of people who have contacted you via Burn have been commenters first. True?”

    I think these two comments by Mike R are on point.
    To move Burn ‘magazine’ forward I think there may have to be a severing from the Burn ‘community’

    On the other hand, I don’t believe Burn ‘magazine’ would be anywhere near as successful without
    the ‘community’ aspect, warts and all.
    Without that, it’s really only another vehicle to present curated groups of photography.
    Burn, whether through design or circumstance has to be one of the few entities that has crossed
    the line from virtual content to physical content and is unique in that regard but, again, I don’t
    think the traction would have been present without the communal component.
    As well, I don’t think Burn would have been a success without your presence and involvement and moving
    forward I think your level of involvement will also likely define in a large part the viability of

  • Simply! Without the COMMUNITY , that Mark mentioned above I wouldn’t be able to “pull” that San Antonio “thing”!
    But hey fine, u folks want no comments? No Black? No Akaky? No fun?
    Silence? No voice???
    U guys don’t want your “voice”?? No questions to be asked? No friendships to be made? Clinical? Sterile? Gaddafi way? THE LEADER speaks and the SHEEP follow???
    Fine with me!
    Let’s all go back to the cave days! The TV days, where YOU HAVE NO VOICE!
    Only a couch and pop corn?
    You (we) don’t need BURN then! You need a TV and a remote control!
    I give up

  • I sold a print? I thought it was just the one you already asked panos to red dot?? hey hey , more money for burn I guess. :)

  • PANOS,

    I totally agree: OCCUPY BURN COMMENTS! :-)

    I can’t speak for others, but the Comments are an essential part of my Burn experience. I have learned SO much from DAH and other Burnians, made some new (for now, virtual) friends, received advice and equipment assistance, etc.

    As Panos pointed out, Burn-ed Garden would not have happened. Nor would have many “real-life” meet-ups between Burninans, or maybe even the last-minute call for self-portraits to be included in 02, and definitely not the “navel-gazing lovefest” on (smiling at you, Jim P. :-)

  • well DAH, I was pretending I didnt understand….
    are you trying to do away with comments — is that it?

    hmm.. so what if the comments are long or short on this essay or that?

  • Occupy Burn Comments? Is there a digital NYPD car we can all publicly crap on? Otherwise, not gonna happen.

  • AKAKY,

    If you find that digital police car, then you’re gonna need this:

  • Union Carbide, Johns-Manville, R.J. Reynolds, Phillip Morris, GM, Chrysler, Ford, Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, Exxon-Mobile…

    Millions upon millions dead, financially wiped out, homeless, foreclosed on, suffering debilitating chronic deadly diseases. But yes, let’s clutch our pearls and faint on the couch because some loser shat on a police car.

  • As for commenting: I rarely comment on the photoessays because I am always conscious of my photographic limitations and I don’t want to put myself in a situation where I annoy someone enough that they say put up or shut up, smart guy, where the hell are your pictures? If I like something a lot, then I’ll say something, but for the most part I know I’m not at a level where I can sit in judgement on someone else’s work. I just don’t know enough to do that.

    JUSTIN, something tells me that that site is probably not work safe, so I will look at it later. ;-)

  • would a group essay of the “Occupy” protests from all over the US be of interest?…………probably to Americans

  • will make this simple, i’m with Panos….:)))

    though i do LOVE Jim P’s comment about fill in the blanks…:)))))…that was both brilliant and hilarious…..

    i think it DOES NOT matter one fuck’s worth whether an essay get’s 100 comments or 5…or cares…it changes neither the work nor the nature of BURN as it is….and actually, I have a completely different take on David’s take…how many comments that are left beneath an essay has nothing to do with the essay (good or ill, inspired or typical) but everything (or almost) everything with how much the photographer wishes to engage with the audience…i think Panos’ essays and pics have gather alot of comments…with Bones, i tried to be HERE for the audience: to answer questions, to ask questions, to engage discussion/debate/laughter/fight etc…every place i’ve been published, i’ve never had the opportunity (either in print or on line)…and at exhibitions, ditto, though I’m hoping when i give an artist talk at end of month, i can stir some thinking….

    contrary to what MW thinks, i don’t get wearied by negative criticism…shit, i hated the Life spoof, or rather, i did not like at all the work and found it disillusioning, or rather, typical of much of what i dislike about NYC photoworld and orientation (damn, a big silly statement)…and i’ve written ‘critical’ words here too (mw, go through the archive, please), but what i do get ‘upset’ about is the tone of personal attack that do happen occassionally and also when a negative critique is countered by a positive critique/evaluation and the reaction is that…i saw that under Danny’s essay (eventually turned toward good chat) and especially under Daria’s epf, where supporters were basically called obnoxious/pedantic pricks for trying to contextualize the work….but, that’s the web…that’s burn…i do not loose sleep over it and while i do get pissed, it rarely stays or remains…my role (obnoxiously self-assigned, naked emperor which i am, godspeed) has always been to try to bring ideas toward the discussion…yes, i tend to be positive, that is who i am in real life, period….but i’m not living la vie en rose, or would i want people not to express their dislike of something….i’m many things, but a dick i’m not….so bring on the noise…

    as for as bullet’ng Burn with “the bullet: i think in the very near future i can pull the top pro talents together to create a serious tour de force…..”

    well, you will have lost me….because like Jim, i come here to look at and write about photographers who are not TOP PRO Talents…though they do have Top Talent….because frankly, the only reason why i continue to make pictures and scribble words aint at all for the big leagues, but for something else….and i found that here too….

    BURN is david’s….but, as a friend and a colleague, i would also remind him politely that it is actually NOT his….but others….a good teacher understands that…

    allow BURN to be whatever it will…as always that will keep some, lose some and bring new ilk….whatever….

    transformation, in and out….

    whatever y’all do, all the best….things transform….neither better nor worse, just metamorphose:

    the way spurn can chime itself into spawn, without a care in the world, and we’re none the poorer…



    p.s. i would love to go, also, to the mat with Preston’s comment too, but well…what’s the point….don’t want to be labeled again wearied, so i’m striking that word from my burn/fbook posts…..

  • comments are comments some are non descript others like this are a friggin great ……. “I have no intentions of spending a day with pretentious pricks who cut holes in their pockets to get the “real” feel of pocket billiards”

  • would a group essay of the “Occupy” protests from all over the US be of interest?…………probably to Americans

    And to people outside the U.S. who’s minds are slightly less narrow than an HO gauge track.

  • Re; comments. I hardly ever comment on essays; I just feel uncomfortable discussing it; would much rather chat to the photographer over a few beers… :-) The only time I would ever close comments on an essay (if one of mine were ever to be published on Burn) would be if the subjects in the essay were to be (or likely to be) subjected to personal attacks by posters.
    For me; if the subject was vulnerable I wouldn’t allow “public” comments. If the comments were solely directed at the quality of the work; no worries, rip into it. But I don’t know if I’d want to risk a vulnerable person’s lifestyle/choices being called into question rather than critiquing the actual essay. Just my 2c :-)

  • Michael I doubt if you are politically concerned about other people’s backyards, few if any comments from you come about affairs in Asia.

  • comments like And to people outside the U.S. who’s minds are slightly less narrow than an HO gauge track. show up your inability to move on what a poor soul you have

  • Regarding the question about the comments and the essays – If an essay is good, and everyone likes it, there is usually not much to add, besides to say it is good. If an essay is parting the audience, some people like it, some hate it – we get conversations. I think, it is like with light. If you have really strong light, you get deep shadows. If there is softer, but good light, the shadows are less important.

    However, I don’t know too much about photography, I enjoy taking pictures, looking and collecting pictures.

    I love to hang around here, read the comments and the insights you, David or the other give here.
    The community, the emotion, the burn family is something which is a constant in my life I would deeply miss.

  • Thomas , we all know deep inside that all things must pass…So is Burn…someday we will all feel like we missed a whole family…someday..when it all will be over..done..history!
    but isnt death that makes life so important and valuable?
    So i think we should all enjoy what WE ALL COLLECTIVELY created (under that Harvey umbrella of course)
    and honor while its still there..Everything is temporary and everything is flowing constantly…nothing lasts! enjoy the moment!(although the tacos NOT the best idea today…oh well…!)

  • Folks, No need to get defensive. We are just “commenting” on a “dialogue” post.

    The way I see it. There are 2 types of viewers that come to Burn.
    1.) The “burnian”
    2.) The non “burnian”- who just wants to look at serious work and doesn’t want or have time for an online community

    Even though we have distinct Categories on the Right Side of the burn website (photographic essays, dialogue etc.), it all displays together & blends as one feed on the main page.

    Wouldn’t it be cool to create a burnians online lounge (New York Loft style) to hang out in? We can still discuss the photographic essays of burn, the politics, the comic strips etc.

    This can allow burn to develop and grow.
    Why settle for either/or, comments/no comments when you can have both.

    Peace out.

  • No, I don’t obsess over individual continents or countries. Humans are the same all over in my view. They are all affected by the venality of global corporations.

    And many thanks for your concern over my (nonexistent) soul. Too quaint. Allow m to return favor… Stop obsessing, Imants. It’s not good for your “tortured” soul.

  • Michael unfortunately you are the one who comes out with those nasty responses to my posts (minds are slightly less narrow than an HO gauge track) so I respond with bait that catches you every time You don’t even realise how US centric you are in your comments

  • Just to widen that track-guage a little, Toronto will be having their own Occupy demonstration this Saturday. Weather permitting, I’ll be there.

    Calgary is set for one, too.

  • This is one clean-up that could get messy.

    Brookfield Properties, which owns the downtown Manhattan park that has become the home base of the Occupy Wall Street protests, announced on Thursday that it wants all protesters off its property starting at 7 a.m. Friday so it can tidy up the park grounds. It said the demonstrators can come back after the cleaning—as long as they abide by park rules. Those rules prohibit tents, tarps, sleeping bags, and the storage of any personal property. That would effectively end the demonstration, in which activists have camped out in Zuccotti Park for the past three-and-a-half weeks to protest wealth inequality.

    “They’re going to use the cleanup to get us out of here,” a dismayed protester told the Associated Press. “It’s a de facto eviction notice.”

    Since the demonstrations began on Sept. 17, Zuccotti Park has become the focal point of a growing nationwide movement directed at corporate creed, corruption, and income inequality. Because it’s privately owned, protesters haven’t been subject to the same rules as they would be in a public park. Mayor Michael Bloomberg said recently that they could stay indefinitely as long as they obey the law. Brookfield’s decision to step in, however, would make it difficult to maintain the occupation.

    The protesters are already vowing not to comply. Gothamist printed a statement from the group’s organizers on Thursday, saying, “We won’t allow Bloomberg and the NYPD to foreclose our occupation. This is an occupation, not a permitted picnic.”

    That could mean a big showdown with police. While Brookfield is legally required to allow around-the-clock public access, it is also allowed to enforce regulations. In a letter obtained by the blog The Dissenter, Brookfield wrote to NYPD commissioner Ray Kelly on Tuesday asking for help moving the protesters. From the letter:

    After weeks of occupation, conditions at the Park have deteriorated to unsanitary and unsafe levels. The Park has no toilets and while the existing trash receptacles have always been more than adequate to accommodate normal waste in the park, those receptacles are no longer even close to sufficient and the resulting trash accumulation is attracting rodents…

    Kelly, the police commissioner, told the New York Post on Thursday, “People will have to remove all their belongings and leave the park. After it’s cleaned, they’ll be able to come back. But they won’t be able to bring back the gear, the sleeping bags, that sort of thing will not be able to be brought back into the park.”

    How might the confrontation play out? The Daily News reports that organizers wrote on their Facebook page, “We’ll position ourselves with our brooms and mops in a human chain around the park, linked at the arms. If the NYPD attempts to enter, we’ll peacefully/non-violently stand our ground and those who are willing will get arrested.”

    Meanwhile, some protesters are mounting their own last-minute cleanup effort in hopes of being allowed to stay.

  • George Soros and the protesters deny any connection. But Reuters did find indirect financial links between Soros and Adbusters, an anti-capitalist group in Canada which started the protests with an inventive marketing campaign aimed at sparking an Arab Spring type uprising against Wall Street.

  • Ross, “I hardly ever comment on essays; I just feel uncomfortable discussing it; would much rather chat to the photographer over a few beers… :-” I am, and most here are, with you on that one: we should all think of our conversations as such.



    Occupy Wall Street has already won, perhaps not the victory most of its participants want, but a momentous victory nonetheless. It has already altered our political debate, changed the agenda, shifted the discussion in newspapers, on cable TV, and even around the water cooler. And that is wonderful.

    Suddenly, the issues of equity, fairness, justice, income distribution, and accountability for the economic cataclysm–issues all but ignored for a generation—are front and center. We have moved beyond the one-dimensional conversation about how much and where to cut the deficit. Questions more central to the social fabric of our nation have returned to the heart of the political debate. By forcing this new discussion, OWS has made most of the other participants in our politics—who either didn’t want to have this conversation or weren’t able to make it happen—look pretty small.

    Surely, you might say, other factors have contributed: A convergence of horrifying economic data has crystallized the public’s underlying anxiety. Data show that median family income declined by 6.7 percent over the past two years, the unemployment rate is stuck at 9.1 percent in the October report (16.5 percent if you look at the more meaningful U6 number), and 46.2 million Americans are living in poverty—the most in more than 50 years. Certainly, those data help make Occupy Wall Street’s case.

    But until these protests, no political figure or movement had made Americans pay attention to these facts in a meaningful way. Indeed, over the long hot summer, as poverty rose and unemployment stagnated, the entire discussion was about cutting our deficit.

    And then OWS showed up. They brought something that had been in short supply: passion—the necessary ingredient that powers citizen activism. The tempered, carefully modulated, and finely nuanced statements of Beltway politicians and policy wonks do not alter the debate.

    Of course, the visceral emotions that accompany citizen activism generate not only an energy that can change politics but an incoherence that is easily mocked. OWS is not a Brookings Institution report with five carefully researched policy points and an appendix of data. It is a leaderless movement, and it can often be painfully simplistic in its economic critique, lacking in subtlety in its political strategies, and marred by fringe elements whose presence distracts and demeans. Yet, the point of OWS is not to be subtle, parsed, or nuanced. Its role is to drag politics to a different place, to provide the exuberance and energy upon which reform can take place.

    The major social movements that have transformed our country since its founding all began as passionate grassroots activism that then radiated out. Only later do traditional politicians get involved. The history of the civil rights movement, women’s rights movement, labor movement, peace movement, environmental movement, gay rights movement, and, yes, even the Tea Party, follow this model. In every instance, visceral emotions about justice, right, and wrong ignited a movement. Precise demands and strategies followed later. So the critique of OWS as unformed and sometimes shallow may be correct, but it is also irrelevant.

    Just as importantly, most of those who are so critical of OWS have failed to recognize inflection points in our politics. They fail to recognize that the public is responding to OWS because it is desperate for somebody to speak with the passion, and even anger, that has filled the public since the inequities and failures of our economy have become so apparent.

    Will the influence of OWS continue? Will it continue to capture the imagination of the public? Will it morph into a more concrete movement with sufficiently precise objectives that it can craft a strategy with real goals and strategies for attaining them? These are impossible questions to answer right now.

    Could it launch a citizen petition demanding that a Paul Krugman, Joseph Stiglitz, or Paul Volcker be brought into government as a counterweight to or replacement for the establishment voice of Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner? Maybe. Could OWS demand meetings with top—government officials? Could it demand answers to tough questions—from the specific (explain the government’s conflicting statements about the AIG-Goldman bailout) to the more theoretical (why “moral hazard” is a reason to limit government aid only cited when the beneficiaries would be everyday citizens)?

    There is much ground to cover before real reform, but as a voice challenging a self-satisfied, well-protected status quo, OWS is already powerful and successful.

  • MOORE-BACON rumors…

    Maybe I was wrong about this Reuters story. In my first read, I’d overlooked this nugget.

    Other support for Occupy Wall Street has come from online funding website Kickstarter, where more than $75,000 has been pledged, deliveries of food and from cash dropped in a bucket at the park. Liberal film maker Michael Moore has also pledged to donate money.

    But where did Moore get that money? Let’s investigate. In 1987, Kevin Bacon played the small role of “Taxi Racer” in Planes, Trains and Automobiles. (He’s the jerk who steals a taxi from Steve Martin. Spoiler.)

  • Veterans attacked and arrested at Occupy Boston

  • Panos, you are right.
    There and here is much to honor and to be happy about. Hey, I loved your presentation of the burn-ed garden. That made me feel like a little bit being there.

    I have to admit, I am tired today – sometimes if you have a job which does not exactly serve where your heart is, it is exhausting .. and yes, life is a constant change .. you know, I wasn’t travelling much during the last months, Europe turns to winter time, I’m becoming melancholic, not sure if that is good :)

  • today’s coolest paradox was ONCE again the “commenting regarding the comments”….laughing!
    Even folks that usually are not commenting they simply decided to comment today (over comments about comments)…
    smile y’all and keep commenting or NOT…one thing fo sho: Universe Expanding Fast..very very fast!


    “the discovery of the accelerating expansion of the Universe through observations of distant supernovae.”

  • Panos I love the video above …….. the videoing of photographers and video shooters

  • anyone grabbing an iPhone4s tomorrow?

  • jeff:

    many of those same posers stood silent all these years about Brooksfield (incidentally, the place where wpp is shown)….the BOLDEST statement was when Marcus had his exhibition there about the gold/war in congo in the atrium…where were all the hipsters then?…..

    the REAL fight isn’t the protests….but making the difference in lives around us….

    any of those folk on demonstrating spent time on monday helping at the shelters on Monday?…..

    i’d rather spend my time there, (done, btw), then at brookfield….

    incidentally, giving food sans camera,

    will let you know when i give the looming talk

  • Jeff i was protesting with them and as Imants pointed out , it is funny having photogs shooting photogs..smiling..more cameras than actual people..

    reposting slideshow from SA


  • I would like to take this opportunity to comment here and to apologize to each and every one of you reading this now for not taking the opportunity to comment on a previous occasion. The opportunity to comment does not come around often enough—the recent spike in cassava prices may have something to do with that, what with most comments getting more or less the same mileage they did back in the 1970’s—and it was a truly unconscionable lack of judgment on my part not to have commented at that time. One cannot comment often enough these days, I think, and so I wish to reiterate my comments for not having commented when I should have commented. As comments go, of course, this isn’t a very good one, and I would comment for that, but then again, I am not a professional commenter with an advanced degree in commenting, for which lack I would like to comment at this time. I am an entirely self-taught commenter and so my comments tend to be a little rough around the edges, and so I would like to again comment for my inexcusable commenting autdidactism.

    I wanted to be a commenter when I was a boy; all of my childhood heroes were commenters and I would have collected commenter bubble gum cards had someone manufactured them in those days. No one did, the times being benighted as they were, and so I had to settle for collecting the baseball cards of players having bad years. If there was a pitcher on a last place team who couldn’t find the strike zone if he was standing ten feet in front of it with a half-blind umpire behind the plate, I had his card; if there was a hitter who couldn’t hit the broad side of a fat babe’s butt with a 2 x 4, I had his card as well. Sometimes I collected good players, but only if they were on the disabled list with a pulled hamstring or a torn rotator cuff. I kept all of my baseball cards in an old shoebox my father called the litany of woes, because everyone in the box had an excuse for why they weren’t playing as well as they might that season.

    As you’ve probably surmised by now, I did not get to be a commenter. My parents opposed the idea out of hand, pointing out that commenters, however well they did the job, got paid squat. This was true, of course; commenting did not pay very well then unless you were Walter Lippman. In addition to the poor pay, most people in those days regarded professional commenters as little better than sob sisters, PR men, and Red Sox fans. Mindful of these facts, my parents insisted that I find some more remunerative line of endeavor like dope peddling or swindling little old ladies out of their life savings. I commented on not living up to their expectations, whereupon my father threw a fit and a Fig Newton at me and told me to shut up, he was sick of my comments. He was like that sometimes. I remember one Christmas where he dressed up like Santa Claus (say what you will about him, Pop could do a mean Santa impression) and came down the stairs to his waiting children with a sack of toys thrown over his shoulder and then threw cans of string beans he’d gotten for half price at us. That was a wonderful Christmas, or so my brothers tell me; I had a pretty bad concussion so my memory of that day is a little fuzzy.

    Now, at this point you’re probably wondering why I’m commenting for just about everything under the son and, I’m sorry to say this, I’m wondering why you’re wondering. Explanations are so last century, after all; there hasn’t been a truly reasonable explanation for anything ever since Calvin Coolidge’s press secretary, C. Bascom Slemp, invented the cardboard tube that toilet paper comes wrapped around in 1897, but this hasn’t stopped people from looking for them. The modern comment, unlike many other art forms, and definitely unlike the classical comment, is about nothing at all. It is, in short, Seinfeldian in its philosophical provenance. You do not need to have done something wrong in order to comment on it in this our postmodern Great Republic. Politicians spend a lot of time commenting on one thing or another, especially during an election year, where if pandering for votes won’t work, a pol will grovel for them. I’m especially fond of pols commenting on events that occurred years, sometimes centuries, before any of us were born. Still, it’s nice to know that their hearts are in the right place, even if all that and a couple of bucks will buy you is a ride on the subway.

    In any case, I don’t think I would have made a very good professional commenter. In listening to my comments on tape, I can tell that I lack the one great gift of the true commenter: sincerity. Yes, I can comment all day long, and as a part of my work, I’ve often had to do just that, but the people I’m commenting to can tell it’s all form and no substance. They can tell I am saying, I am terribly sorry for the inconvenience, sir, but that I’m thinking, buzz off, dumbass, and take your ugly wife with you. Sam Goldwyn had it right: if you can fake sincerity, you’ve got it made. I just don’t have that in me, I guess.

  • There seems to be a bridge between today’s discussion and the Occupy movement. Both are dealing passionately somewhere in the middle of the left/right spectrum, somewhere in the middle of the status quo/change spectrum. Both unanimously are against greed.

    (Is this irony? I’m not sure; only last week did I discover what parody was.)

  • SFJason, the new OS is stunning!i upgraded firmware on the 4, and tons of new features…dont get me started ;)

  • But Brooklyn isn’t expanding…although my brother is and will continue to do so until he lays off those fried Snickers bars…

  • Panos… then I shall occupy the local Apple store tomorrow.

  • jeff: ;)))

    well, half-in, half-out ;))))….

    part true: we feed folk and help in the foodbanks and many of those folk doing their biz at Brookfield chanting do not…the great irony when we were there….

    but also teasing u too….



    ohhhhhhh btw………i so forgot to show u some Texas Drought photos i did when i was shooting the “Heat Advisory”

    here is a present from me to AKAKY (for all the smiles he gave me), here some Drought photos in return as a big Thank you!;)

    slideshow , click below:

  • Akaky,
    I apologize if I comment on only reading the 1st and last paragraph of your comment post.

  • “I wanted to be a commenter when I was a boy; all of my childhood heroes were commenters…”


  • Panos; Pic #2; did Wiley Coyote wait too long for the Roadrunner to arrive? Must’ve forgotten his Acme water bottle when buying the Acme anvil…. ;-) Yeah I know; looks more like a fox; but why let the facts get in the way of a story…. ;-)

  • Akaky: Now, THAT’s satire! Right? ;)

    Bob: What is so interesting about the Occupy Wall Street movement and its off-shoots is the way they have taken over the centre, without turning it into a left versus right protest. Compare that to the G20 fiasco in Toronto, where a small group of Black Brigades drop-kicked the efforts’ of the entire 20,000 peaceful protesters. As long as the Occupy Movement can keep the peace, and be civilly disobedient, the media will be unable to spin this between the white hats and the black hats. It took the media several days to figure that there was strong and silent support for the Wall Street event; now even the politicians are paying attention. And both are still scratching their heads in befuddlement.

    I don’t know where it’ll all be going. My hope is that the protest will invigorate the middle class somehow; they are the ones that have suffered the most, relatively. It is painful to see the bottom and top of society grow because the middle is disappearing! I never did agree with Milton Friedman – that the wealthy pulls society upward. For me it has always been about the effort’s of the middle.

    And in order to effect change, we do what we can, whether it is feeding the poor on Thanksgiving as did you, or recording the foreclosures in Detroit as did Gilden. It’s all good. I look forward to attending your talk; thanks!

  • im gonna print a T-Shirt : “shut up and comment”

  • I will buy a t-shirt Panos. See, everyone has a good point. Thus the reason we have comments!!!

  • Damn..Lee, we need a “like” button a la facebook…kiddin

  • Jeff; The peaceful protest aspect is what makes these protests work; much better than the mob mentality seen in the UK etc. The return of 60’s style civil disobedience maybe?

  • David, yes, education is a good answer. Can cut many ways.

    Regarding the protests, I’ve spent quite a bit of time there and what I found interesting was watching them try to work out how to get things done in a leaderless, non-governmental democracy. I don’t at all mean to romanticize that aspect of it. It’s actually very painful to watch them try to re-invent that wheel and it’s not going very well at all. Last time I sat in, all the committees came back with recommendations to centralize authority and ban people from the decision making process. That, and pretty much every one of them recommended building a super duper web site that would have like 400 pages and be easy to navigate and be updated immediately whenever anything whatsoever needed to be communicated. Everyone pretty much agreed on those kinds of details, but unless IBM or someone comes in and does it for them, it ain’t happening. And word today is that Bloomberg has had enough and will be shutting it down. I guess they’ll set up a “free speech zone” somewhere out in Queens or somewhere. Freedom here is, if not altogether illusory, only available if the Bloombergs of our world choose to tolerate it.

  • a civilian-mass audience

    oime,hiii…MR.HARVEY has an idea…again and again !

    Well,we have only 7 lives…come on MY PEOPLE…let’s proceed accordingly …
    in my plain English…:

    “listen to your soul,keep shooting,open your vision and your heart,have sex,eat and fart,laugh loud
    and breath” …the rest will be history …sooner or later…
    Have fun…my 2c or 5euros…shhh,I hope IMF doesn’t read this…;)

    I LOVE YOU ALLL…please enjoy the ride…

    P.S…I would love to have a drink with the above MERMAID…
    and good job with the “lighting”;););)

  • Oh, and for those paying attention to the OWS thing, unless things have radically, and I mean radically, changed in the past couple days, the accusation that there’s a lot of open drug use and sex and groping strangers is pure fucking bullshit. The one time I smelled weed several people quickly asked the perp to go smoke elsewhere, emphasized that they didn’t want to give the cops any excuses. And I’d wager that if all of a sudden there is a lot of openly illegal behavior going on, that police sponsored provacateurs are the ones doing it.

  • “Sometimes I think we could streamline the process by simply posting our names under a topic and letting observers fill in our thoughts.” – Jim Powers

  • As you can see, I thought Jim’s theory to be pretty darned good, and so decided to put it to the test. I have set aside a limited-edition single print, numbered “1” of an original, signed, Frostfrog photo of a frog and will give it as an award to the observer who can most accurately fill in the thoughts that I would have expressed in the above post, had I actually commented.

  • JEFF:

    yes, i agree…thought there is a terrible disconnect, in my experience here in T-dot, with the great middle way….and look at the recent provincial election, 48% voting?…fucking horrendous…ditto the u.s….what i like about the Occupy movement in the states is not necessarily its centrality, but its ability to transcend pigeon-holing by others…then again, i’ll vote again for big O but he’s been a disappointment…but i just still wonder about the disconnect between hanging the rich ;)) and the same inability for the mob to have spent some time also helping the disenfranchised…quietly trying to do the right thing here with our lives and helping without the fanfare…but for ontario, look at all that blue, to me that’s more realistic (and disappointing) of the nature of people….

    anyway…must run
    see u soon

  • AKAKY: So what is this drought thing that Panos is talking about?

    AKAKY IRL: A condition caused by heat and the complete absence of rain.

    AKAKY: You’re kidding? No rain? At all?

    AKAKY IRL: You must get out of your provincial bubble, dude. Just because we are up to our necks in water doesn’t mean everyone else is as well.

    AKAKY: That’s true, I guess. But the Ark stocks were a good investment.

    AKAKY IRL: For once you’re right. They were a good investment. Next time don’t stick me down with the skunks, though. They stink.

    AKAKY: Stinking is the point of skunks.

    AKAKY IRL: I know that. I also know that I don’t need a practical demonstration of that fact.

    AKAKY: Sorry.

    AKAKY IRL: Go blow it out your ass.

  • David
    I will send you some portraits. I must warn you that my commercial portrait work is not leading edge, but proudly and deliberately traditional, formal, and old school. Wether my own work, or not, I’d love a discussion about the psychology and aesthetics of commercial portraits. Having spent the last 26 of my 40 years as a photographer running a store-front portrait studio, I’ve done a lot of thinking about it.

  • Bob… The “REAL” fight? Hmmmm. For me that sounds a little too much like Bachmann and Perry talking about “real Americans”.

    While helping out at food kitchens and taking care of the homeless is to be commended, let’s not get too deep into the whole what’s more important bit. I’d bet big money that many, many of the folks protesting have done exactly what you’ve done at shelters and in other areas. But to suggest that the attention that is finally now being paid to the unfairness and venality of certain corporate dealings, certain government practices … (due to these very protests!) … well, suggesting it’s not a “real” fight is missing something very big, I think.


    you have a committed philosophy and style and over time…that is the main thing i look for…besides we all know that new school becomes old school and old school becomes new school…put it on the table maestro.

  • The comments work for me as an online workshop. For those of us who for geographical, monetary or both reasons together cannot attend one of David’s workshop, the information in all the dialogue posts is astonishing, there is no need to buy a book. The truth is here and there aren’t any magic trick or recipes. Some of us need the Burn dialogue to be able to talk photography with others who are at the same level or higher when back at home there is nobody who cares about what really photography is all about and only are worried about lens resolution, bokeh or if Canon or Nikon lenses are as good as Leica lenses.

  • Michael:

    the REAL fight is in both the living and behavior, not just in the protesting…while i agree with almost everything about the protests, i also recognize that much of the same materialism and hunger for things (expensive toys, cameras, phones, laptops, clothes, etc) and the movement toward spending, acquiring is part and parcel…as much i loathe the greed that is absolutely part of our lives, i’m not so deluded to thing that the herds are so pristine…changing begins with changing self….easier to march and return to the quiet accumulating behavior….and i do not mean this in a holier than thou way…..i mean to suggest that the horrific inequality in wealth/ownership/tax responsibility that exists in the US/Canada/Europe developing world shouldn’t be vocally spoken up about (it should) but part of me sees the revolt not so much about ‘them’ (bankers?) but about ‘me’ (i/we need more)…what i said was the irony of those not helping in the food banks vs. those willing to protest and facebook and ramble about it is startling to me….i do, of course, like that the demonstrations, seem less about left vs right/young vs old so much as other ideas….but again, we should begin by cleaning our own lives/homes first…and i sure aint perfect, but before i also try to practice what is breached….folk need 2 cars, 2 computers, expensive cellphones, surfeit of other goods?….i’m not saying what is more important…but that there is a kind of righteous venom coming forth that i find, well um, hypocritical….the ability to protest also comes with wealth, something not always afforded others…but MW’s point about the idea of free speech is also important….ny shutting in down?….we celebrated the arab spring but call it class warfare in n.american…funny really…anyway…that’s all i[m saying…cheers, b

  • PAUL

    well, THAT is the entire mission of Burn in the first place…to be an online workshop……if you see it that way, then great …and thanks…

  • David and Paul,

    Some people have already expressed that same sentiment :)

  • Paul; Re; Online workshop. Me too! :-)

  • Ross…

    You were on mind when I wrote that comment. We both suffer from a deep disconnection from the big world of photography and that of course this is very good and very bad!! :)

  • a civilian-mass audience

    I come here for the girls…hiiii :)

    Where are you MY LADIES…???

    ok,back to our regular program

  • Well, DAH you asked a serious question and I gave a flippant response. That’s because I had just gotten off the plane and returned home from some field work in the cold and wind, once again, just like in New York and before, going on severe shortage of sleep, and my brain could not function at the serious question level.

    But, being one of the regulars that Jim referred to, I felt that I had to manifest my presence and my brain could function at the flippant level.

    I am still too tired to think at serious level and I have no time to sit on anyone’s porch and sip tequilla or even rootbeer and it is not going to lighten up for awhile and I keep thinking about you said you work hard but play hard, too.

    Maybe sometime in the next month or so, I can take a break and play hard and then maybe my mind can think up a serious response, but, in the meantime, I say, just keep doing what you are doing as you are motivated to do it.

    It’s worked so far and it got me to New York for awhile, introduced me to a whole new branch of my family and we did bone. Furthermore, you caused me to pull up an essay that has been sitting on the back burner for years and may have just sat there until I joined my father in death. Now, that essay is on a foreburner and I know it is going to come to life. If it comes to life while Mitt Romney is campaigning for president, or, God save us all, serving as president, so much the better.

    No one else but you with your eclectic, wild, ideas backed by action and a love of photography and photographers, no matter how disfunctional they might be, could have done that.

    Keep loving Jim and do listen to him, because every now and then he does hit the mark, but never let his or anyone else’s compulsive, hardbitten cynicism and reflexive negativity cause you to doubt your own effort.

    Some things that you will try will work, some things won’t.

    Everything that you do not try will never work.

  • er… that “bone” part could have been interesting, but should have read, “bond.”

    Oh, for a proof reader.

  • Frostfrog

    “Some things that you will try will work, some things won’t.

    Everything that you do not try will never work.”

    See, we do get wiser as we get older.

  • Panos, singing, or just taking karaoke a little too far? Any good?

  • Herve the impertinent:
    Even if the “bad essays” (?!?!?) get the most comments, they get a lot less than your own entries, meaning also, if I follow your reasoning, your own photos, David! :-))))))))))

    PS:About salieri, of course he never said he was the champion of the mediocre. Either it was in Pushkin’s novel (never read it) from which “Amedeus” was adapted, or Milos Forman wrote it in the script. He was actually far from mediocre, and of course no genius, he taught both Beethoven and Schubert, and lately some of his operas and arias have found their ways on CD, one sung by the greatest mezzo-soprano of our age, Cecilia Bartoli.
    Pushkin’s novel was inspired by the fact that Salieri, in old age and senile, was said to have uttered that “I killed Mozart”. This started a century-long legend that Mozart could have died from being poisonned (which people related to his figure having bloated during his agony). Which no one takes seriously anymore.

  • Frostfrog, that was flippant? Brings some serious points to the table from my perspective. Love your blog, Bill.


  • a civilian-mass audience

    The pursuit of peace and progress cannot end in a few years in either victory or defeat. The pursuit of peace and progress, with its trials and its errors, its successes and its setbacks, can never be relaxed and never abandoned.”
    Dag Hammarskjold (Swedish Statesman and United Nations official, 1905-1961)

    Keep shooting…don’t lose your vision…FOCUS,FOCUS,FOCUS and open your souls…

    P.S…oime,shall I blame the MERMAID…for my moonlight ramble ?:)))))))))))))
    ~~~~~~~~~que sera ,sera~~~~~~~

  • a civilian-mass audience

    FROSTFROGY…yes,we do love your blog…
    squeeze the kidos …easy with LYNX:)

    GRACIE,MYGRACIE…thank you for all your support here in BURNLAND…and thanks for reporting…

    DAVIDBOWEN, KATHLEEN FONSECA…THANK YOU…please report to your nearest BURN aisle…

    and yes,yes,yes MR.JIM POWERS is my friend…golden heart…!!!

    and we do love our ACADEMIANS…BOBBY,AKAKY,SIDNEY…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    One photo philosopher (MR.HARVEY) once said that our time is limited…
    (I know mine is )therefore please use it wisely…

  • Thanks to Bob’s comment on the latest essay I discovered C.D. Wright last night.

  • Herve, that seems to happen a lot to musicians. Edmund White pointed out in his small book about Beethoven that practically the only musician this sort of sudden forgetfulness didnt happen to was Beethoven himself. After his death, Vivaldi practically vanished from the repertoire until the 20th century. J.S. Bach moldered for 80 years before Mendelsson conducted the St. Matthew’s Passion and put Bach on the map; before Mendelsson, if you spoke about Bach everyone understood that you were either referring to Johann Christian Bach or Carl Philip Emannuel Bach, both J.S. sons and guys who both loved their dad, but thought he was old-fashioned. Johann Nepomuk Hummel is finally getting now the recognition he deserves; he was a contemporary of Beethoven’s and the latter’s reputation simply buried Hummel for two centuries, which is strange when you think of it-Beethoven thought Hummel was his only serious rival; no one else came close. And Salieri is finally getting his due as well. The popularity of Amadeus has created an interest in Salieri’s work, odd as that may sound. Antonio Salieri was the Kapellmeister for the most musically sophisticated court in all of Europe, which was not a job for a musical or political hack. You had to have the goods and Salieri did. It was his misfortune that he was extremely good, but that his contemporaries Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven were geniuses.

  • Wrong Edmund. I meant Edmund Morris, not Edmund White.

  • BOO! yes it’s nearly Halloween…
    Hey Civi, and DAH and everyone!

    posts… in conjunction with the quality of the work…
    I notice that phenomenon in other places where photography is shown… Sometimes it seems to be tied to the viewer’s lack of understanding – trust me I live in a part of the world where people couldn’t possibly understand less…
    but also – if the work sucks – then people seem to nit pick at the flaws.

    So if the work is good – the chatter is less due to the lack of things to say – how could you possibly improve? why improve? It’s done so well. And maybe that’s a sign the work is successful but being shown to the wrong audience. What I mean by that is, work shown here is a bragging right and it’s shown to photographers – people who without their own work cannot make a difference in the photography world. Photographers aren’t rollers with money to through at a problem, they care, but there’s only so much they can do. and when it comes to conceptual work – there’s only so much impact work like that can have on a person. either it makes them think just a bit more about a person or situation, or it just reaffirms in their mind what they already believe, or it simply dumbfounds them.

    David,I just sent you an email about a project idea I have – would you please look it over and tell me what you think?

    Cheers everyone!

  • a civilian-mass audience

    BOO to YOU JASONHOU…and to PANOOO too and to BURNIANS hooooo…


    Good night youuhoooo…!

  • Giving Demotix a try for the occupy Des Moines march onto Wells Fargo. It will be interesting to see what happens.

  • good bye civi, stay strong….

  • You know, I don’t usually do the quote thing, but here’s one from Patti Smith you all might find interesting:

    “One of my great goals when I first started taking photographs or showing them publicly is that people might want one for over their desk. That’s my goal. You know, I could dream of getting the Nobel Prize in Literature — believe me, I’ve dreamed of everything. I’ve never been in a movie but dreamed of getting an Academy Award. I love all that stuff. But for my photographs, my dream is simply that they would have a place of honor above someone’s desk. When someone is writing or writing a letter or contemplating, they can look up and they would find a moment of serenity or a moment of centering from one of these little pictures.”

    Excellent article about Smith and her photography here.

  • my dream:

    to be rid of that desire….

    alas, i’m not that strong or at peace yet….

    though patti is still a hero…

    please watch this film Michael, glorious:

  • Thanks bob, I’ve seen it. Read the article I linked to though. The quote is not particularly Representative. Or better yet, listen to her later work. A lot of people worship her but have never listened to anything after Easter.

  • michael :)…yes, just finished reading your link….lovely…but then again, i’m a major fan of hers….thanks for the link, hadn’t read it prior…..btw, i edited Bones entirely while listening to Gung Ho and Trampin’ :))))…Just Kids (book) is wonderful too :)))…

  • MW…

    I read that article this morning! It seems people either hate her guts or adore her. I’ve never heard any of her music, any advice?

  • Ha, and as the random setting on ITunes has just reminded me, someone that fucking accomplished, in so many arts, managed to kind of accidentally take the iconic photo of The Clash. So much to admire about that kind of life.

  • Paul, Horses, duh. Then Easter, Gone Again, Twelve. Or some would say, with no doubt equal validity, this other one, that thing she did, or some other work. And for good measure check out MC5’s Kick out the Jams. And Jim Carroll’s Catholic Boy, and Robert Mapplethorpe and Alan Ginsburg and on and on.

  • Plus 4 more prints sold ( just in from gallery )..
    But I’ve no idea who is in the new team of 4 ( except from Dominic )..
    Again the big Burn.02 party moves to next Saturday !
    New prints arriving from super talented photogs like B.BLACK, LASSAL, DAH and more!
    stay tuned please !
    We have not done yet! We just STARTED!
    No bull!

  • a civilian-mass audience

    BURN family Biggest family EVER…
    I have a proof…and when I am ready I will share it with you…

    sometimes you believe that “blood” related people are your people…BUT oime…
    how wrong I was…

    just a morning ramble…BOBBY,my dream is to have the spirits permission to “see” your visions…

    I LOVE YOU ALLLLL and THANK YOU,THANK YOU…each and every one of YOU…
    I am stronger because of YOUUUUUUUUU…ALL of YOU
    thank you for let me follow your dreams…

    Your civi

  • a civilian-mass audience

    PANOS…you DA MAN…and please give the biggest hug to KIM and LOLA…

    WE all THANK YOU…!!!

  • Panos ask the patrons to deposit their coins in the jars for burn

  • “But for my photographs, my dream is simply that they would have a place of honor above someone’s desk. When someone is writing or writing a letter or contemplating, they can look up and they would find a moment of serenity or a moment of centering from one of these little pictures.”

    Precisely, why is this a desire to be rid of?

  • DAVID,

    Technical question and, so sorry, gear oriented. So I’m front row at the cage fight last night, and the dude’s on the mat getting pounded, blood sweat and tears flying, and I would have given anything to have my old split screen microprism focusing screen again but instead I have this nearly useless digital blank screen shooting wide open and cussing progress cause every shot is a hail Mary … sending you a single btw … so anyway …

    Have you looked at any of the after market old-style microprism focusing screens for your digital slrs, or shot with one? I did use a camera with the manufacturer’s alternate ground glass style screen once, only slightly better than useless in low light. I’m nearly in the dark most of the time. Thanks man.

  • Pachebel’s Canon in D,

    Just ignore the pix with it

  • DAVID … Okay, one more thing. Sometimes I get two or three related singles, sort of like a super short story, or flash fiction, not a whole essay, not a personal project, not something I’m going to pursue but perhaps interesting nonetheless. I’m sure others do as well. You guys ever thought about creating Burn Briefs, something that is up for a day or two, or has its own little location off to the side with a thumbnail to click on, sidebars from the working audience, little vignettes of life, three photos max, Super Shorts. Of course, I wouldn’t want something like that to dilute the featured more serious long-term essay but … sometimes (always/often/hopefully) good photography happens when you just show up, with a camera, kind of like life. Thanks for having an open forum so I can throw that on the table.

  • Akaky…

    Have you ever tried Alien Skin’s Exposure 3 for colour images?
    Ross Nolly and I have been using it for all our colour images. I find it manages to nearly kill the awful digital look I hate so much.

  • Michael Kircher…

    This is for you… :)

  • “But for my photographs, my dream is simply that they would have a place of honor above someone’s desk. When someone is writing or writing a letter or contemplating, they can look up and they would find a moment of serenity or a moment of centering from one of these little pictures.”

    Thursday, just before I left Barrow to fly to Anchorage and then drive home to Wasilla, a friend found me and brought me to his house to feed me a final meal of white fish and frozen caribou dipped in seal oil. I have been in his house many times, but this time, on a bulletin board with many pictures, I noticed for the first time a small funeral program pinned there. It was for his mother. The picture was one I had taken of her in the 1980’s at the World Eskimo-Indian Olympics. She was holding the first place trophy that she had won in the seal skinning competition and was smiling.

    It was black and white and the reproduction was terrible – kind of like an old time, black and white xerox. Probably, that’s what it was.

    I had never known that he had used that photo for the funeral, but it made me feel very good to see it there, on his wall, after all these years, still living, still speaking, if in a quiet but meaningful way.

  • Bill; That must have been nice for you.

    Paul; Tech talk alert… Alien Skin works well for what I’m trying to achieve. But I’ve found there is another more subtle effect at play too. I have been shooting with an older 24mm AF Nikkor (1989 or early 90’s vintage) and it renders more of a subtle look to the images compared to my modern zoom.

    I had that reinforced yesterday (again) when I used the zoom; the images are much more vibrant and contrasty (yes; and a plastic look) then the older prime; a completely different “look”. No difference in sharpness; but a big difference in rendering. Anyway tech talk over! :-)

    I’ve been away from Burn a lot over the last few weeks due to family issues and consequently haven’t shot out on the farm for 7-weeks either. Am chomping at the bit to get out there this week!

  • Ross…

    First of all hope all is well with your parents. I’m sure it will do you good to take a little break from the farm essay, I’m sure you’ll see everything with fresh eyes!
    I hate zooms!! I’ve only ever owned a Canon 100/400 zoom lens, actually it was pretty good, but had to sell it real quick to get me out of some big problems on a holiday :)!! A good old prime or a new one will normally render very well, although I still remember a few duds I’ve tripped over.

  • Paul; Thanks for that. :-) I think it’s more a case of new versus old (glass, coatings, construction etc). I’m pretty sure an ultra-modern prime would render similar to my 12-24 zoom (which is still my magazine “go to” lens)

  • Ross/Paul
    Gotta agree about primes. Love my film era 28,50,85

  • a civilian-mass audience

    ROSSY…sending good energy…we are proud of you…

    I am out fighting…

    and I love you ALLLLLLLLLLLl

  • Zooms are pretty seductive for PJ’s, but I still use primes a lot. The 85 and 14 both live in my bag. And, of course, the 300 2.8 L :)

  • I’d love to have a nice set of primes. They are so much faster and usually not quite so bulky as the zoom. And I’ll buy all those primes, just as soon as the boatload of money I’ve been expecting arrives. But until then, I just have to set the zoom to 24 when I want to do wide angle, 50 when I want to do normal, or maybe even 70 when I want a nice portrait, and use the 35 prime the other 90 percent of the time. Not the best solution, but it works and is more affordable. Nobody makes anybody fiddle constantly with the zoom. One can put it on a certain focal length and leave it there.

  • Nice shot Jim!!!

    SFJason, instagram can be very addictive !!!

  • Meeting with .. Yuri Kozyrev!

    P.s. I wanto to go to live in Gordon’s neighbourhood :)

  • Everyone hates zooms because zooms encourage laziness.

  • can someone pass the beer nuts?

  • Nah. It’s them drugs that encourage laziness and inaccuracy :)

  • Preston Marchant…

    A couple of reasons…

    Zooms lenses have no point of view. Prime lenses impose their point of view on you. You learn to impose its point of view on your subject.
    If you always photograph with a fixed-focal-length lens, soon you will not need to look through your viewfinder to see what your prime lens sees — your eyes will see, your mind will know.
    Zooms are bad habbits and turn into crutches where instead of using your feet to move close you rack the zoom to get in closer.
    Zooms are usually big but so are fast prime SLR lenses…
    I’ve been ONLY using a 50mm lens or it’s equivalent in medium format or large format for the last 11 years, I’m not even interested in other focal length prime lenses, let alone zooms. I’m lucky because 50mm prime lenses are relatively cheap compared to other fixed lenses and I’ve got quite a few and by the way there are also crappy prime lenses. I have Nikon 50mm 1,8D which is rubbish especially with BW and I miss my Nikon 45Sp pancake boutique lens I sold it thinking I wouldn’t go back to film. It ain’t very sharp it’s a Tessar design but slip on a yellow filter and some PLUS-X 125 and it’s beautiful.

    Enough gear talk from me :))

  • Zooms are for people who are too lazy to change lenses?

  • Geez! I wish I’d kept my trap shut, wasn’t starting a prime v zoom thing. I was only talking about the difference in rendering between older and modern lenses. Peace! ;-)

  • I used to use zooms a lot a few years ago, but moved away from them. The only one I use now is the 70-200.

    Probably all of the arguments for and against have some merit to them. Do they make a photographer lazy? Maybe. But on the other hand I have been in breaking news events where I needed to be a bit wider and could not back up. Using only primes can cost you a moment as well if you have to take time to switch lenses or bodies if you are carrying two.

    I think it comes down to what a photographer is comfortable using.

    I don’t think I have ever heard someone say “that would have been a great image if he hadn’t used a 35-70 zoom.”

    If you only have one camera and one lens, you know what you need to do. You just might not be able to do it.

  • Civi; thanks for that. Anyway; back home today. Did a quick add up and have been at the folks place for 8-weeks. My mother had a knee op, and because my father doesn’t drive I’ve been chief cook, driver and general dogsbody. In between times 2 uncles passed away so have driven mum and dad across the country a few times to hospitals and funerals.

    Have continued to photograph both mum and dad, but that’s about all I’ve been able to do. Sometimes it’s just a case of all hands to the pump. All I know is that after 8-weeks of stereo deprivation; it’s going to get one hell of a thrashing this week! ;-)

  • I am genuinely curious as to why the animosity (snobbery) toward zooms persists. Yes, in the Old Days, zooms were optically inferior to Well Made Primes. But today it would be hard to argue that a decent zoom lens is somehow deficient.

  • Preston Merchant…

    “Zooms are for people who are too lazy to change lenses?”

    No of course not!! :))
    Actually most zooms are big and heavy so there’s more effort involved. :)

    I’m sure you’re doing quite well with what you’ve got, I just like going around with the minimum amount of equipment as possible. Like DAH and also Anders Petersen who shoots very nearly all his work with a Contax T3. Listen it’s the same with mechanics…
    If it works don’t touch it, same with your photography everything fine? Keep on the same way :)).

  • Preston…

    It isn’t snobbery, they are just as or as expensive as a good prime.
    I’ve never heard of a 28/70mm zoom lens which was as fast 1,4 50mm lens.
    Jack of all trades master of none.

  • Weight, speed, speed, consistency of look, look itself, intimidation factor of subjects, crutch of going too wide to make something out of nothing, crutch of going too long instead of putting your feet where they belong, looking like a tool.

  • So what has everyone been shooting? Me? As mentioned above; my mum and dad.

  • I think zooms encourage laziness because I broke both of my zooms and now I have to use primes, largely because I am too cheap to buy a new zoom. Making a virtue of necessity is always a good thing, except when the necessity involved is a lack of sausage pizza and root beer. Then necessity stops being a virtue and becomes Frank Zappa and the mothers of invention. You know, I don’t really know what that means…

  • But anyway if our eye isn’t seeing it doesn’t matter if it’s a zoom or a prime…
    We’re fucked!

  • Sfj – Thanks for the new 4s iPhone pic. I think I will be purchasing that phone as soon as is practical.

  • Ross..

    my ‘kids’..

    wishing you the best for your parents!

  • Eva…


  • Zoom is for photographers that have erection troubles in bed…(laughing). Zoom is like a falus object. Zoom is like being a sniper, instead of a AK-47 you have D-300…
    Viva the 35mm and 50mm! Always travel light. Stay safe

  • Nice Eva :-) I am re-visiting the kids project at the moment. Re-thinking it with new ideas and eyes; think I might scrap 90% of what I have shot (over the last 2-3 years) and start over…. I’m still in the process of deciding what else I want to shoot in conjunction with my farm work. I think I find editing ideas as hard as editing pics…. ;-)

  • Patricio…

    Thanks to your “Fixed Gear” essay I managed to find out why I keep seeing all these trendy young people down in town riding bicycles without breaks :). Fascinating.

  • “like being a sniper, instead of a AK-47 you have D-300…”

    But I have an old 1944 WW2 .303 that I use for hunting AND a D300; what does that make me? ;-)

  • Ross, I have a .303 Mk4 that I bought at a GI Surplus store in the 1960’s. Only cost a few bucks back then. Sporterized it myself when I was a teenager. Great rifle and good cartridge.

  • Paul: something tells me you have read “the online photographer” blog. (smile) I like primes too.

    Panos: I didn’t give Instagram a chance until I recently discovered what other burnians were doing with it. Very cool stuff man. very cool.

    Frostfrog: Yep… there’s nothing like snapping sweaty chocolate in detail with a cellphone in dim light. LOL


  • Just came back from the post office.
    Burn 02 has arrived! not only that, but two more books as well, Milton Rogovin the forgotten ones, and an old copy of William Mortensons “Pictorial lighting” printed in 1947.

    Can’t wait to tuck into them tonight.

  • Akaky

    I don’t know what all that means either, but I like it.

  • Laura, Rome can’t be all that bad a place to hang out. Maybe we should do a house swap sometime.

  • SFJason…

    I’ve been reading the Online Photographer right from when it started. When Mike isn’t in one of his gear talk moods he’s absolutely brilliant and an absolute expert when it come to prime lenses.

  • I have a hard time with ideology, whether it be in the form of religion, politics, or in this case, something as benign as lens choice.

  • Eva – I agree – beautiful.

    Patricio – You’ve got me feeling mighty self-conscious now, because I do rely on zooms. All the time.

    Never had a .303. During past times of hardship, I had to hock or sell all my guns except for my lever-action .30-30, which was my airplane gun and I loved it anyway (in Alaska, by law pilots of small planes are required to carry a firearm) and my .12 gauge.

    I really hunt with nothing but a camera, anyway, although I hang out with hunters bearing many arms and I eat a lot of wild food.

  • Bill,

    I’ve only a .410 (gift from my grandfather) and a 20 ga. (gift from my father-in-law) shotguns, but always liked the look of a .30-30 lever action. To me, it epitomizes the “cowboy rifle”.

  • Guns and zooms are both legal to carry in Texas !!!
    ( I knew about guns but about zooms??? I had no idea!!)
    Anyway , idea is simple : shoot with whatever u have.. Shoot with whatever
    yo mama gave u! It’s all good!
    Just shoot.. Shoot .. Shoot!
    And think think think before u start “spraying” with either an ak-47 or a d-300…
    Think and shoot! Relate, connect!

  • Bill; This year I’m planning to try to do things a bit differently. I’ve always liked the ideal of being as self-sufficient as possible, so am going to try and put it into practice this year. I’m fortunate to have 3-acres; which I’m (slowly) developing into a permaculture property.

    This year I’ve decided to grow as much of my own food as possible; and to hunt/farm nearly all my meat. I really want to get a decent balance back into life (and hopefully lose more weight…); and combine this lifestyle with my photography projects. I will photograph/write about it as well. I have a mag that is interested in a weekly column; but have asked them to wait a month or so; so I can be sure the lifestyle will work for me.

    I’m working on the theory; why join a gym when I can dig over a plot of land or hunt for wild goats (a major pest here) etc in the hills. So why not go out to the local back country lake to set an eel trap; or fish for perch (another pest species) and spend the day writing when out there? I don’t know if it will work or not; but think it will work in well with the creative life too…

  • Actually; I very nearly bought a 60 acre patch of bush a while ago to live on. But decided not to as it would have been a life of total self sufficiency (it had no house, no power etc); no time for the writing or photography. I decided I could live a hybrid lifestyle on my land which is only 20km away from backcountry areas and 30km from the sea…

  • And yes, there are things you can do while the parade passes you by:

  • said things all being shot with two prime lenses, he said, in an effort to give this pointless digression some relevance here…

  • Considering flying to New York next week and camp out with the protesters. I know the OWS has been covered ad nauseam, but think it would be a cool adventure anyway. Any thoughts or advice?

  • Brian

    contact michael webster. he has been there shooting and he lives in NY. I am sure he can give you advice.

  • Biil; meant to say “a monthly column”

  • Justin – Yeah, the .30-30 is the coolest-looking rifle of all time, I think.

    Ross – Big challenge but a great idea. I think it worth pursuing. Whatever happens, you will advance and make whole creations as a result.

    I hope to see some samples of that column, once you get it going.

  • Sent MW an email. Thanks for the tip.

  • Brian, Pete
    OWS may just possibly be the most important event of 21st century, or not. Go, talk to people, make photographs.

  • Have never owned a gun, don’t get it. I had to kill a rat this year, he was caught in a trap we had set in our duck house, still breathing, looking at me. It was horrible.

  • Bill; I’m just going to start small and see where it ends up. It’s really just a full blown extension of what I have done all my life. Also; the (on-going) earthquakes here in NZ this year have changed a lot of people’s ideas about self-sufficiency, money, centralisation of food and what is truly important in life. It has rammed home how vulnerable this country is; it’s practically a series of fault lines.

    There seems to have been a sea change (in NZ) in people’s view on being more food secure, and the global recession has meant many are more conscious about dropping their debt levels. Shooting on my friend’s farm has been a spur too. And maybe the entire idea is a little homage to the Wall Street protests too.

  • Just finished my first look through burn 02. Absolutely absolutely wonderful, amazing, nothing like any other photography book I have (and I have a bunch). If you havn’t ordered it yet, do it now. You will not be dissapointed.
    I look forward to spending more time with it. Bravo all involved.

    BTW would love to see the self portraits in essay form here.

  • If anybody here comes across the story about the Japanese “Poop-powered Bike” that is currently going viral in the West, I’m afraid it is, excuse the expression, all bullshit. It is NOT a “poop-powered bike” that runs on feces… read the straight story here from the Japan Times:
    Lost in Translation… again.

  • Paul, Bill..

    thanks.. I just wish it was on film so I could print it.. a moment passing way too fast to change cameras..


    thanks, I’ve sometimes been thinking the same (start all over), instead I just add and one day will have to sit down and do a serious edit.. and good on you about growing your own food/farming, indeed much wiser than joining the gym!

  • @ PAUL:
    Thanks for your comment. Those bikers HAVE brakes: both legs! I know that is a little dangerous, depends on the city of course. I would NOT ride that in downtown Bangkok… Try to ride a few minutes one of that bikes, you’ll have a good the sensation on it.


  • Sidney, dammit, stop messing with us. I was thinking that if we could improve the technology, we could run the Daytona 500 on nothing but day old Taco Bell fajitas. What an absolute disappointment this has turned out to be!

  • Only read this article because of the word ‘film’ in the header:

    “..with a sensitibility range of ISO100 to ISO51,200 – which is expandable up to ISO204,800.”


  • This is from the archives, but it proves that I am ahead of my time, at least when it comes to biofuels. Yes I am, the Steve Jobs of whiz:

    I read in the New York Times recently, and if you can’t trust what you read in the New York Times then what’s the whole point of living, I mean really, what’s the point, that a group of scientists and engineers in Singapore have invented an electric battery that runs on human urine. Yes, you read that right, the battery uses urine as a power source. The battery also runs on sweat, saliva, and semen, although the whole concept of getting semen into a battery without the cops showing up to haul you away for public indecency leads me to suspect that we won’t be seeing the semen powered battery on the market anytime soon. In any case, of the three excretions, urine is the most efficacious as well as the most abundant. The designers plan to power small electromedical devices like glucose monitors and hearing aids with their battery at first, but they have plans of designing a urine battery to operate laptops, washing machines, and dishwashers in the near future.

    It’s not everyday you see a revolution announced in the New York Times or see the revolution get such prominent treatment in it pages. After all, the Times, in its infinite journalistic wisdom, buried the story of Dr. Pincus and his invention of the birth control pill somewhere in the middle of the A section, no doubt at the top of a page dominated by an ad for Saks Fifth Avenue, thereby completely missing the beginning of the sexual revolution. Not this time, however; this time the Times announced the coming revolution in the Sunday magazine section, where tens of thousands of people could see the future for themselves. Yes, the future is upon us, and yet, for the most part, we fail to see it. This nation’s reliance on unreliable foreigners and their petroleum is almost over, and we did not have to disturb a cormorant or discomfit a caribou in order to achieve our energy independence. No, indeed, all we will have to do is look out for number one.

    There will be some problems, obviously, in gearing up for this new era of energy independence; this is a battery technology and there will be some old-new technology hybrids along the way as we move ever forward into the bright new world of tomorrow. The urine hybrid automobile, for example, might use the driver’s urine to run the battery and then shift to a standard internal combustion engine when the supply of urine to the battery ran low. Such a hybrid also assumes the creation of a new fueling infrastructure along the nation’s roads and highways, with special pumps located near the rest rooms for the convenience of the hybrid car drivers. The car buyer of the future may even have their choice between male and female versions of the same model hybrid automobile, given that a man would find refueling the battery of such an automobile while driving much easier than a woman would. The women’s rights movement would no doubt find this sexist to the nth degree, and may even sue to prevent such automobiles from coming on the market, or at the very least demand that the automobile industry design a car that could accommodate both male and female drivers. This would not be the easiest thing in the world to do, biology being what it is. However much the feminists may choose to deny basic anatomy, the fact remains that men can urinate into a tube while driving much easier than a woman can. This may even stimulate an interest in kilts as the uniform of choice for long distance truckers.

    The benefits to the American economy would be massive, the new technology creating in its wake vast new numbers of jobs in the plumbing supply industry. Control of the fixtures market, especially the vital urinal market, would be up for grabs, with wildcatters, Silicon Valley types, and who knows what other geniuses going for the golden gusto. Business magazines would trumpet the call of the new markets available and hortatory articles would appear about the men and women who saw the technology and its possibilities and started battery and plumbing supply companies in their garages. The terms Battery Alley and Porcelain Valley would be as familiar on the lips of stockjobbers on Wall Street as Silicon Valley and Leavenworth are today. The importance of this market to all aspects of life here in our Great Republic will be so great that no one today can possibly comprehend it, and in the future the federal government, mindful of national security concerns, will have to strictly control the export of American urinals to foreign countries lest some of them fall into the wrong hands.

    Big Oil, of course, will not go gently into that good night. They will try to stifle the new technology, but they will fail in the end; the market will stop their nefarious plotting cold. With an ever-growing demand for energy in China and India and the rest of the developing world, no one will pay the near extortionate prices for Middle Eastern oil when urine is so much more available and cheaper to boot. No, we’d have to stop complaining about Big Oil after the eventual triumph of the urine-powered battery. The battery makers would be the new economic villains, replacing the oil companies and Bill Gates as the objects of economic scorn and loathing. The big drug companies would come in for their share of the vitriol as well, as their control of the now strategic diuretics market would determine who could and could not get to work in the morning. Coffee companies, beer brewers, and soft drink manufacturers would all do well in the new economic dispensation. In fact, the new batteries would power a computer in a car engine capable of determining just how much beer you’ve had to drink and refuse to operate if there was too much alcohol in your urine, saving the lives of thousands of people who would have otherwise died in automobile accidents. Yes, a bright new future awaits us all, courtesy of those Singaporean gentlemen and their technical breakthrough, this key to the future, this battery that just needs us to keep going and going and going. And to think you saw the revolution announced in the New York Times, of all places; will wonders never cease?

  • @ EVA: I started reading the article, then I went stgraight forward to the end…”Canon’s EOS-1D X is expected to retail at £5300″.
    Uhmmm, I’d rather shoot with the D-300 and still have some more fresh beers at the end of the day.
    Thanks for the article, interesting to know about the latest technology out there.

    Enough, going to the pub, Champions League ahead!

  • I own a Canon 1 VHS, I’ve owned a 1DS, and a 1DSIII and I own and use daily 1DS II, but I wont be purchasing a 1D X. I rarely ever shoot higher than 800 iso and I’m slowly heading back to film, although it’s difficult mentally after being able to shoot so many free images with digital, but I’m finding film more rewarding. That’s the best I can express the feeling I get with film.

  • Have any of you found you have to be in a certain frame of mind to get good images?
    If I go out quietly and relaxed I shoot in a kind of lazy way, insecure and miss out on many photos. If I psyche myself up like when I used to prepare for a 10Km race I find I get better results. I need to turn mentally aggressive and pretty confident, bordering on arrogance and insolence, of course this is all within…

  • Came across this place many of you film and printing folk might find interesting:

  • Paul, I find that the Achilles heel of film photography (unless you can use a traditional darkroom) is the scanning stage. I haven’t seen any development (pun not intended) in scanning technology for many years.

    As for frame of mind conducive to good photography; I find an almost aimless walkabout / dreamtime state suits me. I am a solitary photographer and can’t concentrate on not concentrating when in company – if that makes any sense?


  • Michael, these workshops look amazing… if only I lived in the US…

  • Mike R…

    It makes sense! :)

    One of my own personal criticisms of my old landscape work was the fact that it was too much about me and nothing about the place or the landscape.
    Does this make sense to you?

  • Paul, I wouldn’t categorize myself as a landscape photographer: I have a friend who would wait for a person to walk out of his frame wheras I would wait until a person walked into mine.

    If you just show the place and the landscape you produce a record shot (simplistically) whereas a successful photograph (for me) in any genre, shows something of the awe or emotion that the photographer felt at the time of taking the photograph i.e. the photograph and the photographer cannot be seperated.


  • “the photograph and the photographer cannot be separated.”

    damn…i like that…i really reAlly like that! that talks to me:

    “the photograph and the photographer cannot be separated.”

  • Thank you everyone for the advice and help. I am doing it. I am flying to NY Monday, camping out and photographing the OWS movement for a week. Excited as hell.

  • mw..

    thanks for that link, cool stuff!

    I think I owe you an email? Found one sitting in the draft folder.. hmm..

  • a civilian-mass audience

    I am reporting from Grecolandia…I am out fighting…I know you are all next to me…

    Thank you,thank you…keep the fire BURNING…

    and don’t forget …I love you ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

  • Mike R…

    I don´t know at 5:00am I agreed with your premise…
    “the photograph and the photographer cannot be separated”
    but my day is slowly going past at work and I’ve had time to chew on this. Don’t the greatest works of art and photography somehow go beyond the creator and exist at a higher level?

  • “the photograph and the photographer cannot be separated”

    Sounds like some kind of religious incantation to me. No basis in reality.

  • MW, the photographer brings his / her own sensibility, issues, mood etc. and selects the subject, what to put into the frame and what to exclude; where the point of focus is depth of focus, time of day … He / she then processes the photograph, choosing tone, contrast etc. In this sense photo and photographer are inextricably linked. No big deal here, no need to bow but definitly based in reality.

    Paul “Don’t the greatest works of art and photography somehow go beyond the creator and exist at a higher level?” – yep, I’d broadly agree with that statement but it doesn’t negate my original post. Some works have a universal appeal and become icons, others have a powerful message but one that exerts its power within a specific time frame. But what do I know?

  • I guess, Mike, but looked at that way, anyone wo makes anything cannot be separated from the result of his or her work. The fry cook at McDonald’s cannot be separated from the hamburger, he chose when to flip it, his fingers squeezed the trigger on the catsup machine, etc.

    Sorry, obsessing over the meaning of words again. Carry on.

  • “the photograph and the photographer cannot be separated”

    With the exception of maybe two dozen images I’ve made over the last 40 years, for a few hundred dollars apiece, I’d be more than happy to be “separated” from any one of my thousands and thousands of photographs.

  • “The fry cook at McDonald’s cannot be separated from the hamburger…”

    There’s something very Zen about that…

  • “The fry cook at McDonald’s cannot be separated from the hamburger”, sounds like some kind of religious incantation to me.

  • “The fry cook at McDonald’s cannot be separated from the hamburger…”

    There’s something very Zen about that…

    Struck me as somehow unhygienic, if not creepily cannibalistic.

  • Mike R…

    “But what do I know?”

    You know a lot and I agree and like your views and that’s good enough for me :)!!

    Just imagine if we were to find “The Guernica” or “Christina’s World” hidden or forgotten in some French and American basement without anyway means of finding out who the artists were who created such amazing works of art I’m sure we would be able to appreciate the beauty of these works of art just as much as if we knew. Of course we would be tickled with curiosity in knowing who were the beings who were capable of these works. In the end what’s most important is the output not the artist, although we think about the artist because as human beings that’s the only reference we can clutch on to in a vain attempt in understanding or sometimes dreaming of being their equal.

  • DAH- what did you have in mind regarding: “…i am personally very hungry to see a photographer take on the upper class with the intensity that seems to flow naturally in the favelas… ”

    Although I understand essays on poverty has been done and redone many times, I wonder what type of essay on the upper class would be of interest to photographers?

    Anyone else have thoughts on this?


  • SFJason…

    The hardest part would be probably feeling empathy as a photographer towards those who are not in need.

  • Booo! I just looked at my reservations again, and see that I am not arriving until Tuesday! I guess playing with the variable dates, looking for the best prices and flight times late at night, make for some dumb mistakes.

  • The fry cook at McDonald’s cannot be separated from the hamburger…”

    There’s something very Zen about that…

    Struck me as somehow unhygienic, if not creepily cannibalistic.

    You are being shallow, grasshopper. Like the fry cook, you must flow with the Tao of the Hamburger.

  • Hey PANOS,

    It’s not that I don’t appreciate your efforts, but the “tombstones” (that’s what they’re called in the gallery world) on both my photos say I am from “Washington, DC”…!!?? YYEECCCHHHH!!! Wrong side of the continent, dude! They should say “Bellingham, WA” or “Washington State”.

  • Sorry Sidney I will change this prior to this Saturday party!
    Apologies for typos etc! Yes I agree, pretty much overwhelming situation for only 2 people involved !

  • i apologize if my 3rd little utube clip is disabled (music)! its just EMI that is paranoid!!!!! they disabled my live sound from my latest PART3 MOVIE (clip) due to a copyright violation!!!???????????????? it was the DJ playing a song outside the gallery , can u believe this? not a “stolen” song used a soundtrack…not at all! just background noise-music coming from speakers..
    exactly like the end of movie PART1 above!..just to see their consistency and paranoia..
    of course most dont know that EMI was bought by a major Wall street bank last february and now they desperetaly trying to get rid of the label but nobody wants it! garbage…EMI (the home of neil young and green day ) lost one third of its worth almost! from 3.3 bil last feb to 1.75 billion in 6 months!
    And they are mad as hell! go to hell EMI! we dont need u!

  • Anyway , just filed a dispute claim with YouTube..i cant believe they let EMI abusing them to that extend!
    viva freedom!

  • SF Jason / DAH

    Didn’t Martin Parr photo the ultrarich in dubai, or am i thinking of someone else? Larry Fink has held a mirror up to the Monied Class for a long time. It must be difficult to get access to that group as they are probably very guarded, although you could easily pick up a copy of Town & Country and read it for the ridiculous chronicle it is.

  • Panos, you don’t have to change this or anything, because I don’t think anyone in Texas gives a rat’s ass one way or the other, but I am not from Poughkeepsie; the Post Office didn’t like that I didn’t have a return address on the box, so rather than have squadrons of Postal Inspectors hold it up in order to examine the thing for explosives, poisonous snakes, or my mother’s meat loaf, amongst other dangerous substances, I slapped the address of the Dutchess County Building on the box and sent its on its way.

  • Before anyone dismisses a certain kind of landscape photography as “just a record,” perhaps it would be instructive to look at, and ponder, this remarkable series of “record” photographs of the “Then, the After, and the Now” of the Japanese tsunami last March and the subsequent and ongoing cleanup efforts, courtesy of The Frame blog from the Sacramento Bee:

    No, these are not art photographs, nor is there any palpable evidence of auteur or individual style in them… the photographers could be completely anonymous… but this kind of photography has always played a significant and important role in society and in history. Maybe it’s good to appreciate that perspective once in a while, just to remind ourselves what photography has meant and means to lots of people, not “just a record,” but a very important, instructive, and at times inspiring record that could be made no other way.

  • I headed downtown to photograph the Upper Class and offer some Gray Poupon.
    This guy was too busy to talk.

    So I headed outside and found lots and lots of social folk.

  • Laura and dq- thanks for the links and names.
    I researched all four and found Martin Parr’s Dubai to be a fun twist on wealths comical appearance.

  • Hello dear friends ,

    I have no school and I have time for pictures
    Greece in Reverse
    a cat and a sunset

    I have no photos yet for my new projekt,Greece in Revenge.

    UncleP. you are the best.Mr.David Alan Harvey thank you for your support.

    Have a beautiful day.

  • Sidney, “Before anyone dismisses a certain kind of landscape photography as “just a record,” perhaps it would be instructive to look at, and ponder, this remarkable series of “record” photographs of the “Then, the After, and the Now” of the Japanese tsunami ”

    My post included “If you just show the place and the landscape you produce a record shot (simplistically) whereas a successful photograph (for me) in any genre, shows something of the awe or emotion that the photographer ….” – thanks for the link; quite amazing to see the transformation in some of the photographs – reminds me of Carl De Keyser.

    Vissaria, I love cats: hope someone buried the cat. It’s been a beautiful day here in the North of England Vissaria: early morning sun with big grey-pink storm clouds! After looking at Uncle P’s video posts of his exhibition I grabbed my camera and went out chasing rainbows! You have a beautiful day too Vissaria!


  • SFJason
    good to see the guy getting his shoes shined. This story needs a broader perspective than the endless images of people holding signs.

  • “media always say they are not affected by who advertises with them… but i doubt that…any company say spending a few million dollars a year advertising in a publication will at least have some influence either directly or indirectly with how the publication thinks about things…”

    David; not only those who spend millions….. Funny; last year I did a typical run of the mill story about a small family owned contracting business. It was only a small mag; an average $5-600 nett story, so not exactly Time….

    In the story the contractor mentioned that they were replacing their machines with a new brand; and of course I included this in the piece. Long story short; the piece went to press and the advertiser who was selling the dumped machine rang the editor (who had approved the article) to say they were pulling all their advertising; because I had made it all up.

    The editor rang me and had a BIG hissy fit; luckily I still had the interview recording and played the transcript which calmed her down. So the advertising has it over editorial in small mags too; and has a much larger budget…

    It just reminded me that in a magazine your words and images are only there to sell advertising…. Simple.

  • MW…
    BTW many thanks for the Patti Smith links :))

  • paul:

    if u have an ftp address, i’ll send u the landscape series….u can send me a private msg at fbook if that’s do-able….too big to send via email……..running away now,


  • wow…even after all these years… a small 3.9 quake can get my heart pumpin. shake…rattle… and roll

  • Gordon- yes… I too was glad to see that chap get his shoes shined. A positive reminder my shoes need a good spiff up;-) No intent was made for a story here, just my feeble attempt at humor. feeble….

  • Thanks Herve. I feel that the glimpses of the Aussie work is by far his strongest (recent) work.

  • Good morning everybody! I am coming to NY next week to camp and photograph the OWS movement. I was wondering if I would be able to borrow a shower Friday night so I can clean up before my flight home early Saturday. I’d be happy to spring for dinner and drinks in gratitude.

    Hope to run into some NY Burnians while I’m there. If you see a short guy with glasses, grey vest and a camera, that’s probably me. Come say HI

  • Brian, hope you get the shower – and good light.

    Your post reminds me of a time when I was selling a camera and arranged to meet a man at a (u.k.) motorway services to do the deal. “What do you look like?” said the man over the telephone. “Shortish, fatish, baldish, … and devastatingly attractive to women” I replied. The worst bit was that he recognised me by my description when I arrived! Perhaps it was the camera bag that gave me away. Perhaps (laughing).

  • I know better than to describe myself as “devastatingly attractive to women”

  • @ ALL:
    Nothing to do with burnmagazine, but Jenny LWalker posted a picture in FB that shocked me early today. Tigers, lions, zebras and many more animals shoot dead in the ground by… COPS in Ohio!!
    I’m posting the same comment here:
    – Geez, someone tell them that they can shoot at them with tranquilizer darts instead of real bullets! SOmeone tell them to stop playing to “Call of Duty” or “Counter Strike” or whatever war game… with animals (and also with Irak and Afghan citizen as well.

    Stay safe, angry Patricio

  • The head of the Columbus Zoo, which is one of the biggest in the country, explained it best. It was getting dark, there was limited time to try to prevent injuries and deaths to people, and tranquilizer darts are really hard to do. This becomes doubly so in heavy wooded areas, police not trained to hunt down African cats (why would they be???), and darkness falling. As much as the zoo director hated to do it (saw him crying about it) he had to recommend the shooting of the animals.

    I don’t envy the task they did, they did what had to be done and took no joy in it. The real issue is the law that allowed such animals to be kept in the first place.

  • Brian Frank,

    I was just getting to reply, and saw your excellent answer.

    Yes, it is sad that the actions of a single individual not only placed the lives of citizens and police in danger – and that by doing so, necessitated the killing of these wonderful animals.

  • “During the height of the confusion, Lutz said, it was unclear how many animals had been killed. “When they’re shooting animals in all directions,” he said, “it’s hard to keep track.”

    Most were found within 500 yards of their pens.”

    Nicely done, Ohio.

  • The brilliant NYPD has made it impossible for any new journalist to come to NY to cover breaking news. To get a NYPD press credential for the first time, you have to fill out a form that lists six stories you have covered and been published in the last 24 months, which I did. Then you have to call a number to schedule an appointment to have your materials reviewed, which I did Wednesday. When you finally get to talk to an actual person, they instruct you to email the detective in charge, which I did Wednesday as well.

    I call back today, since I have not heard back, and that detective is out of the office for the week. When I explained that I was going to be flying in on Tuesday, I was told that “It doesn’t work that way. Appointments are scheduled to our availability, and that’s usually two weeks away.” Brilliant.

    So any reporter wanting to cover NY for he first time needs a two week heads-up for any breaking news.

    I guess I’m going rogue.

  • BRIAN…

    i hope we meet in New York…i will be there starting sunday evening and probably through tuesday…the Lucie Awards are monday night..if i can get an extra ticket, you wanna join? Burn is up for a magazine award as you know, and lots of good folks around including Eli Reed who is being honored for his documentary work…Rich Clarkson for lifetime achievement (my first boss) etc etc…the whole thing is a lot of fun ..a photo version of academy awards can meet everyone you can imagine that night…that is a serious bummer about the press creds for the protest…yea, go rogue…Burn will bail you out!!

    cheers, david

  • DAH – I would love to come :-) But I botched my travel arrangements, and I won’t be coming in until Tuesday. Thank you so much for the offer.

  • BRIAN..

    oh yes, i forgot..i remember now you changed your plan…that’s ok, just stop by for a cold beer…Burn Hotel bar is open…

  • “In Broome (it was) just the whole experience of going to the beach and seeing these Australian clichés played out as the people come down with their tinnies at sunset onto Cable Beach.”………………… Rubbish it isn’t a cliche it is fun and beats drinking is some smelly pub on a dreary English day

  • DAH – Can you send me the address? I’d love to stop buy.

  • One “Panos ” photographer is a lot more informative than a bunch of Capital Hill wanna be’s

  • Brian, just about everybody goes rogue here. It’s all about attitude.

    Am sending email separately.

  • This is my second trip to NY, and the second time I have been floored by the giving nature of NY photographers I don’t know. Michael, Erica, David – Thank you.

  • all:

    my last comment….

    a ramble, short and brandy-sweet

    ALL we have is human contact…nothing more, though its generosity and circumnavigation is, at least for me, the only ballast the steers the tonneage of things….

    spent the afternoon, amid the gray umbrella’d raining wind and late-october whirl, in a quiet amberlit bar with Zun Lee (Black Fathers), whose opening picture from ‘black fathers’ David recently published, black fathers his essay on the search and meaning of forgiveness which he worked on at David’s workshop. We spent 3 hours over brandy and beer and stories of fatherhood and picture making and gossip and reconciliation and all the rest. A fine and deeply loving and generous man. An instant bond: maybe it was the twinned laugh, louder that the cook’s order, maybe the shared ageing smiles, maybe it was a simpler thing…

    in truth, up to now, i’ve come to Burn for both the pictures and, more importantly, the stories in hope that they would bridge the chasm of all that all to often seems to attend the world of ambition, of career picture making and position jostling. In truth, I walked into the room of Road Trips and later burn for just that: in hopes to connect to others, to knot my life to others and if picture were the yarn, so be it, if stories were the loom, so be it, it only a hand shake and a hug, so be it.

    I love this guy, this 40 year old physician who seeks something more simple than the yearning of ambition…

    a friendship born today…

    though i felt quite discouraged of late here, in the end, a finer ending no imagined….

    contact of our lives….

    all the rest, pictures, ideas, arguments, ambition, dross….

    a hug under the umbilicus sky….

    seek not the pictures, but the rhyme connecting you to those…..

    all the best….


  • As a counterpoint to the Bangkok/Thailand flood press coverage, here is part of the situation in Cambodia:

  • BOB..

    if that becomes your ONLY experience here, then i hope you consider it all worth it….i think when Burn is gone, you will remember more than this of course, but this story you tell is enough i think….

    please give Zun my warmest regards…he is as you say and more

    cheers, david

  • a civilian-mass audience


    what can I say?…BURN hotel bar is open…?@#%&&…damnit…I am in the wrong place again

  • a civilian-mass audience

    can I sing now?

  • a civilian-mass audience

    I feel like singing…LUCIE awards? hmmm…I am allergic to awards BUT BUT BUT…
    you know I love LUCIE Foundation and their people…

    oime…what shall I wear?…black or white? hmmm

    WHAT NOT TO LOVEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • a civilian-mass audience

    To our photographers and to all our friends that they are upstairs …
    this I have to say…
    Gaddafi is coming up…don’t be harsh…he was a very “lost” soul…oime…

    “Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.”
    Mark Twain

    can I sing now?

  • a civilian-mass audience

    “nothing more, though its generosity and circumnavigation is, at least for me, the only ballast the steers the tonneage of things….”

    oime…I love our ACADEMIANS

    can I sing now?

  • a civilian-mass audience

    ok…I am going to make a coffee…BUT I will be back…

    AKAKYYYYYYYYYY…300 is mine and only mine…YOU have been warned;)

  • John Vink,

    Many thanks for linking to your gallery of photos from the flood in Cambodia. With all the flood news from Thailand, I was wondering what your situation was like.

    I was in Bangkok for some of the big floods of 1984 which at that time were the largest in several decades, though apparently eclipsed by what is happening now. One of the things that impressed me then was how quickly most of the Thais adapted to having their streets and roads and houses under a meter or more of water for several weeks. I don’t mean to minimize the tragic impact that such floods have, but it seemed to me then that flooding on that scale, had it been in Japan, Europe, or America, would have been far more disruptive and damaging, but that because people in Thailand often experienced floods, and because so many were already living lives close to the edge that required resourcefulness for daily survival, they actually coped far better than richer or more developed countries would have. Well, Thailand today, and particularly Bangkok, is a far richer and more developed country, and lots of people there have a lot more to lose.

    I’m aware that in at least part of Cambodia there is yearly flooding to some extent, with the Tonle Sap backing up… in fact, that is part of what maintains a rich aquatic ecosystem there. I wonder if you think Cambodians in general are coping well with the flooding this year, or is it turning into a major human and economic disaster on the same level as Thailand?

  • Civi… don’t take too long with that coffee…… “CCXCVI”

  • a civilian-mass audience

    SFJASON…well,I am out of coffee BUT I have mountain tea…originale :)
    I am Greek I have to improvise…

    oime…if you are a BURNIAN stuck in Occupied Grecolandia…let me know…

    Civilian’s home is open 24/7…I have chickens,ouzo and mountain tea!!!

  • a civilian-mass audience

    I am gonna sing now

  • a civilian-mass audience

    and yes, I am gonna dance

  • a civilian-mass audience


    this is for GREECE…300 Spartans


  • Patricio – What happened there is terrible, I agree, but from what I gather they did not have tranquilizer guns handy and animals that will kill people and children were running loose and I think maybe they just did what they had to do and I suspect they hated to do it. I’ll bet there were tears shed by some of those who pulled the triggers. I live in a place where wild animals still kill people and after reading your comment I was thinking about people I knew who have been killed by wild animals and they about take up the digits of one hand, and I probably left two or three out. It could have happened in Ohio, too.

    Bob – Lucky you, to have spent an afternoon with Zun. I know what you mean about the bonding, as it happened with us, too. By “last comment,” I hope you meant last comment of the day, not last comment. In fact, you had better drop in a comment in response to my comment.

    Civi – If I could sing, I would sing with you. I can’t, but I will in my head. And I will definitely drink coffee with you, even though you are in Greece and I am in Wasilla.

    DAH – I do hope you received the thank you messages that I sent by email and text after my return from New York. There was nothing important, but I know you are flooded with and endless flow of text and email and I would hate to think that mine slipped by and that I seemed somehow ungrateful.

    I have returned to as crazy and hard-time pressed a situation as I left and I have yet to catch my rest, but it should ease off in a week, two at the most, and then I will follow up on the items we talked about.

  • a civilian-mass audience


    I couldn’t resist.I copy your inspiration from Hemingway..:
    ” “Ask not for whom the siren wails – it wails for thee.”
    If I can sing,then you can definitely sing…today we are drinking mountain tea and don’t forget
    the cat…civilians don’t forget..hiiiii

    MIKER…how is TOMCAT…need update

    EVA,VIVA…the Italian…November is almost here..

    GORDON…we love your place

    PANOS…are we BURNED the garden yet?

    THANK YOU ALLL and don’t forget you,our shadow readers are BURNIANS too…
    oime,I am missing so many BURNIANS…please report to the nearest BURN aisle

    where the vision
    has no end

  • Civi…

    Still in Sicily, soon home though.. not sure for how long.. anyway, some roaming around the island here:

    Sending broken hugs :)

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Safe travels EVA…you know me…I can wait…
    THANK YOU again for all your generosity…credit where credit is due

    BURN has Soul…BURN smells like home…BURN is a home with soul…
    well,I am not an Academian…BUT, you know what I mean:)!!!

    P.S…BOBBY goes nowhere…cause I have NOT signed any permission slip…Nope,NADA…

    back to our non regular program

  • Civi.. it was just a book.. ok, a GREAT book.. :)

    You heard, they say France is to break next? What do they know, we’re strong, will not break, cannot break spirit, ideas, dreams and soul..

  • Civi, Tom Cat is doing fine: thanks for asking. He, me and my other Number-One-Son, Olly Cat go walking about five times a day (and night) – with Tom still on his lead. His leg has healed now but another two weeks to go until he can roam – just to be sure.

    I’m already known as the Cat Whisperer around here so God knows what they call me now.

    Greetings from the U.K.!


  • a civilian-mass audience


    you are ALL DA PEOPLE…damnit…if BURN was a bottle of ouzo…

  • is there money in hooing, though, especially these days?

  • a civilian-mass audience

    I am Greek…I don’t know:))))))))))

  • Civi, can I purr now?

  • Mike R – thanks for this link. This just may solve some problems for me! I’m glad Tom Cat is doing well. My good black cat is sitting on my desk right now, ripping important papers apart with his teeth.

  • frostfrog:

    bill: well, i should have written 2nd last comment, as you’ve asked for a reply ;))…and just got an email from a viewer who said, ‘you’d better answer bill’…so, yes…last…all good things transform…all have my undying support/love, but things change, nothing wrong with that…like i said, i never came to road trips/burn with any ulterior motive accept to enjoy the love of picture taking/story telling and meet some folk/love some friends….wrote alot and hard over the 4 1/2 years, hopefully helped out as well and helped forge a more thoughtful effort….by the way, i am nicer in public, ask Zun…yesterday, he was pretty lucky too ;)))))…nothing but love moving forward…and books to finish, in earnest…others can pick up the baton…

    civi: :)))…i’m afraid you will have to punish me then in real life if we ever meet, cause i am climbing out the window, but please know it is not an escape or done with any feelings of sadness or disappointment but love and hope…….times in a life when decisions must be made and after this week, it is time to go…….timing is everything, and it is necessary….but my heart is a light and full and ;you’ve all got the stamps here that i left… hard feelings….keep the positivity afloat….and stay safe over there….people think what they may, its about how one lives that matters, not the perceptions….as breaker morant said, it’s been a beautiful ride, and now don’t make a bloddy mess of it….hugs

  • sorry, meant this for you Civi…so, ok, the milano cookies too :))

  • Sidney: sorry for being slow x answering… Cambodians are coping relatively well…. for now, and except for those who lost a member of their family. They are used to floods, and who has little loses little. This is a flat country so the impact of floods is a slow one, extended in time, pernicious. I am afraid that the descent to hell for some will really kick in when the waters recede. Still about 30% of Cambodians lives under the (local) poverty line, barely making ends meet at the end of the year, when the harvest is in the bags. Lose the harvest, and there is no food, no income AND no seeds to plant for the next crop. Life is a balancing act for many here, and it takes little to tip the scale.


    Thanks for your reply. You remind me that while the flooding itself is dramatic when it is happening, for many, many people in both Thailand and Cambodia, the real hardships may not be during the floods but will come in the weeks and months afterwards. And I love your pictures. Please keep us informed!

  • Imants; Re cliches. Pretty much everything anyone does is a cliche of some sort or other; and I don’t agree with Parr about that. However I like Parr’s work and do feel that this work is much stronger than what I’ve seen of his recent work, which I don’t think has risen to the level of his earlier work. Loved that other link of yours though!

  • I have no problems with Parr’s work which goes well beyond what is seen on the surface and first glace and really enjoy what he creates. What I was referring to was the article which I saw as being a bit simplistic and lacked real know how.

  • Imants; I agree, that’s what I meant. Pity my words mangled it all! ;-)

  • Parr probably had a great time is West Aussie.

  • Bob – It is hard for me to imagine this place without your words. I hope you come back.

    Civi – I brought an Alaska cat to the airport today and told them we were going to Greece to see the Civilian. They wouldn’t let either one of us on the plane…

    DAH – ?

  • a civilian-mass audience

    …your kids,grandkids and the Wasilla people are lucky…
    YOU do tell some stories!!!!!!!!!!!!
    keep sharing amigo!

    MR.VINK…oime,now I can connect better with your reports
    ” Life is a balancing act for many here, and it takes little to tip the scale.”
    thanks for sharing!



    Can I purrr now…as MIKER says:)))

  • a civilian-mass audience

    BOBBY BLACK…I will be back for YOU.

    Nope,your request for exiting BURN FAMILY has not been accepted.
    see, circle of Friends and Family can not be broken now…and since you are an ACADEMIAN…
    you are BURNED for life…oups,sorry

    of course,you are free to fly around…well,my wi-fi connection is not so good lately…
    I reside in Grecolandia afterall
    I will be back

    hugs and ouzo on me!

    your civi

  • Bob, your goodbye was masterful prose; you will be missed but wished well. Hope you come back, Bob, and thank you for all of your writings and photographs.


  • A footnote to John Vink’s report from Cambodia:
    Japan’s Asahi Shinbun newspaper is reporting that in Cambodia so far 250 people have died in the flooding, one and a half million are directly impacted, agricultural crops and infrastructure have been destroyed, and it is feared that at least 10% of this year’s rice harvest will be lost.


    Bill i did receive your thank you messages and my apologies for not thanking you for the thank you… :) what an AMAZING BONDED CLASS THAT WAS….i never had quite the group hug and quite the tears after a show as we did that one…ending with Zun like that brought the house down…i would write more now but gotta do some laundry and get a clean shirt for tomorrow in new york..all i can think about with this Lucie nomination is how cool it is for Diego..the whole hoopla is like a publishing world academy awards or something…the Lucie Foundation does it Lincoln carpet,Diego is here in the U.S. just to do some work for Burn, and lo and behold we get the nomination for Burn by luck he is here….so cool for him..02 his baby…i am just around to watch…more hugs, more tears..damn…

    cheers, david


    ? you mean about Bob? who on God’s green earth thought Bob was leaving…please

  • Ah yes, belated, though sincere, congratulations on the Lucie nomination. What a fine recognition of your accomplishment. Of course by you, I mean you all. And I’m happy Diego will be there to share the accolades.

  • DAH – I meant the group hug, all right. I just don’t want to lose that contact. Don’t want to lose the contact with Bob, either – and somehow, I think he doesn’t really want to either and will be back, like Jim came back. The things is, at the workshop and here, we are all an odd little family of sorts.

    And tomorrow… can’t wait to hear… wish I was in New York this week so I could go to the Lincoln Center!

    Yes, how can you think of anything else right now?


    Well I’ve well and truly missed the “young genius” stage… Have to aim for the “old master”! Have definately attained the “rapidly aging try-hard” stage if nothing else…. ;-)

  • a civilian-mass audience

    NO…BOB BLACK is not leaving…
    I hacked his account…my sincere apologies…
    I am bad:(

    back to our regular program…

    DIEGO…what are u gonna wear? hmmm…anyway,you are Italian…I trust YOU!!!

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Red cross is calling …ready to help our neighbors BUT the Turkish government doesn’t want to accept it…
    not yet…

    wow…EVA, you might be right afterall (6 months ago)…we are not One…? hmmmm…

  • Stumbled over this while waiting:

    curious to check out the pictures when home..

    Civi.. help.. what is it you’re talking about? Doubt I’m right, more likely YOU are :)

  • Diego, congratulations on the Lucie! Enjoy the night and the good company.


  • Ross, hehe, the “rapidly aging try-hard”; amen, Bro!

    Creativity is a hard thing to measure clinically, so I don’t think it is too much a point to worry about. For every youth who has quickly re-conceptualized artistic endeavours, I can think of an old-vine who continues to add to the pot. Anthony Burgess didn’t even start to write until after it was discovered he had a brain tumour; once operated on, he started…and then couldn’t stop. I don’t think Alec Soth has seen Edward Steichen’s life’s work – there was a photographer who kept changing in style and subject interests. My man Picasso is famous not only for being the most prolific artist in history, but for constantly developing and changing his style and authorship.

    There are many things in life which decides whether one creatively becomes a Spice Girl or a Ludwig Von Beethoven. Picasso’s genius for me lay in his ability to converge and then diverge his own work with the work of his peers and his preferred masters from the past. He said, “I do not borrow – I steal”; maybe authorship has more to do with communing with the universal constants of creativity, and with building upon associative convergences of the artistic past and present.

  • …. cause I’ve got a feelin’………
    that tonights gonna be a GOOD night……..’
    oh yeah!!!
    Congrats DAH, diego and all!!!
    so glad you are there Diego..
    for tonight there will be fireworks!!
    Have fun!!
    hugs from the west coast….

  • My fellow Missoulian (Missoula, Montana, when I lived for four years as a child) Norman MacLean completed his succinct masterwork, “A River Runs Through It,” at the age of 72.

    In addition to the superb photography regularly showcased here, I think two things drew me to this forum – the energy and vitality of the young artists most often featured here, and the energy and enduring strength of the old timers who still are young in mind and spirit – David himself being the strongest example.

    While one cannot predict the future and I could be dead or incapacitated before the day ends, it is my plan and intent to do my best work over the next ten to fifteen years – maybe 20 and I am convinced that I will. I am six years younger than David and with his inspiration and example, why not?

    I will not let these people who place limitations by age define me, my work or my capacity.

  • Jeff/Bill; My tongue was firmly planted in my cheek…. ;-)

  • Oh…is Bob leaving again? I’m sorry, I hadn’t heard. For a man who’s always leaving us, he keeps coming up just like my mother’s meat loaf. Strange how that works, isn’t it?

  • Akaky…

    I think this time it’s a bit like the kid who cried “Wolf”…

  • I’ll sorely miss Bob’s essay comments…

    Akaky you stay put, OK!! One talented writer leaving us is enough.

  • An update on the brilliant media relations for NYPD. I did get an email back, but was told that the nearest appointment for credentials is November. An web link was also included, along with the suggestion that I make sure I read through all the criteria for qualification. I clicked on the link and it went to a page that had either moved or was removed. Brilliant.

  • Brian, it IS brilliant, but not in the way you so sarcastically mention. As I am a minor cog in the great machine of bureaucracy, let me tell you that you are working here on a common misassumption: that the point of this procedure is to help you cover the Occupy Wall Street movement. No, it isn’t. The real purpose of this procedure is to make you go away. Failing that, it is to delay your getting your press pass until the people in the park go away, either under their own power or through police intervention, whichever comes first, leaving you with no reason to have a press pass in the first place. You must assume, in dealing with any bureaucracy, that the entire point of that bureaucracy’s existence is to perpetuate itself, make itself larger, and gain for itself a larger share of the public purse. You will note that serving the public whose purse people like me raid on a daily basis is not a big part of the mission statement. The NYPD does not want to help you because the NYPD assumes that you are probably in sympathy with the OWS movement, which is basically true, isn’t it, and if push comes to shove and the NYPD has to move the occupiers out of the park and into Rikers Island your photographs of the event will not make the NYPD look like a professional police force trying hard to uphold the law and the orders of the Mayor, who will, no doubt, be out of town when the cow flop hits the fan, but rather like a bunch of Nazi Sturm Abteilung thugs cracking the skulls of the best and the brightest of the younger generation with porcine glee. Since there’s no upside for them here, then there’s no danger in keeping one more photographer cooling his heels waiting for a press pass and hoping that the whole thing blows over before you show up to claim it. And that’s the way it is, boys and girls.

  • It can’t be too brilliant. I’m still coming, but I get your point.

  • Yes, you’re still coming, but you’re coming without a press pass, so if the NYPD has to club you and drag you off to Rikers along with everyone else, they can credibly claim that they didn’t know you were a reporter. See how it work? ;-)

  • works, dammit, works! with an s at the end!

  • The trick is to be behind the police lines, not in front of them. Credentials don’t matter. The NYPD are like any other guard dog. They smell fear but the fearless are invisible to them.

  • “The trick is to be behind the police lines, not in front of them. Credentials don’t matter. The NYPD are like any other guard dog. They smell fear but the fearless are invisible to them.”

  • AKAY and PAUL

    Don’t worry. He will be back.

  • Pete I wouldn’t be so sure and if so it may be quite a while

  • Our night in New York to mix with many of the best in our biz. We already won.”

    OK OK, but did you WIN?

  • Brian – you really don’t need a press pass – surprisingly few professionals have them here. On the morn of the 15th many photogs came out to cover OWS – and a group of us (w some of NYC’s best) stood around for a bit after the march and discussed how none of us had a NYC press pass. People had simply slung related passes round their neck, passes from other countries and such. Also, fyi – people have tents now and the police aren’t taking them down at this juncture – so in addition to your tarp and bedroll, you may want to bring a one man tent.

  • a civilian-mass audience

    We are winners…YOU know in your heart we are WINNERS…

    keep shooting…BE YOU…listen to your inner voice…listen to your friends and civilians…
    listen to what MASTERS have to say…and FOLLOW your SOUL…
    if you do that


    P.S …MR.BOB BLACK is not leaving…as I wrote before…I had hacked his account…


  • a civilian-mass audience

    welcome home EMCD…

    GORDON…how is mama?

    MY BURNIANS…I would love to hear your reports…

  • About the floods in thailand (mainly North of Bangkok, the old capital (Ayuthaya, see second link), and now threatening the real capital, though I hear the skies have let up a bit, if this link works, this a collection of photos, some more striking than others, especially where crocodiles are concerned. You’re really talking about these beasts swimming off from rivers into some of the most populated and developped urban centers in Asia (therefore the world!):!/media/set/?set=a.171115389640256.44950.171086396309822&type=3!/photo.php?fbid=10150429372410539&set=a.10150427928840539.409498.392299440538&type=1&theater

  • a civilian-mass audience

    HERVE…wow…you are good

  • a civilian-mass audience

    “In order to succeed, we must first believe that we can.”
    Nikos Kazantzakis

    A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free.
    Nikos Kazantzakis

    BE HUMBLE…find the balance…hmmm…not an easy thing


    your civi
    Reporting from Occupied Greece

  • Going through the files I shot a week/10 days ago.. have not seen all, will let it sit, but the kids asked for a few pics to share:

    Civi wrote:

    “In order to succeed, we must first believe that we can.”
    Nikos Kazantzakis


  • a civilian-mass audience

    EVA,MY EVA…please,can you link again…I can’t see…hmmm
    maybe it’s me BUT I wanna see…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Now,I see…and I see courage and strength…
    and I see…we must be grateful for what we see…

    this I have to say:
    “Dream like there is no tomorrow
    Act like there is no yesterday
    Enjoy the day…Today”

    Thank you EVA…thank you ALLLL…

  • Just happened to read this quote this morning, “If you go someplace for a purpose, you want to fill that purpose. It requires you to keep yourself together, and pay attention and concentrate, and get the job done-well.” -James Natchtwey.

  • a civilian-mass audience

    BRAVOOOOOOO to our TIM…he is watching from Upstairs

    Book Publisher of the Year went to Chris Boot, Ltd for Infidel by Tim Hetherington

    BRAVO to ZOOM magazine


    DIEGO,MR.HARVEY,ANTON…CREW…you were amazing…!!!

    VIVA BURN!!!

  • yes,
    congrats to all!!!!
    looks like it was a fun night…
    bow ties and all…

  • I am assuming from the way no one is bringing up that Burn won the Lucie thing last night that Burn did not win the Lucie thing last night.

  • a civilian-mass audience

    No BUT AKAKIE…BURN won The Audience Choice Award…


  • a civilian-mass audience

    I am a MASS AUDIENCE…I am living proof…hiii…or poof:)

  • Wendy, thanks.. had looked on the Lucie Award site, but it’s not updated yet.. congrats to one and all!

  • I agree Civi – I am with you in the mass audience and we do recognize that even if Burn did not officially win, Burn did win with the audience.

    Congratulations to Burn and Zoom, too – plus the others.

    And Eva, congratulations to you and “the kids” as well.

  • and I expect Akaky to respond: ‘Yeah Yeah, Zoom won this time, but everyone knows Prime is better than Zoom. (Zoom too lazy.)’

  • Jason assentior, longam multa foraminibus excitat ignaviam vitrum in omnes utuntur, et denique cum luminis erigit accumsan pellentesque vigore actionis, et a sana mens sana in corpore. Suffragio pro mihi in proxima septimana comitia scriptor. AVE AKAKIUS!!!

    AKAKY IRL: How did I get stuck with these idiots, that’s what I want to know. I mean, really, the other twerp wasn’t bad enough, now I have to listen to this crap morning, noon, and night? It’s enough to drive you to drink.

  • “…we do recognize that even if Burn did not officially win, Burn did win with the audience.” That and $2.25 will get you a ride on the subway, Frosty. If you’re not the winner, you’re not the winner.

  • FROSTFROG (and AKAKY as well, for good measure…)

    After reading your blog post “A Brief Conversation with a Black Horse,” I posted the following visual response:

  • WE WUZ ROBBED!!!–Joe Jacobs, 1932.

  • Akaky,

    Seems to me you were “ZOOMED”!!

  • Accendat in nobis Dominus ignem sui amoris, et flammam aeternae caritatis.

  • sufflare asinum tuum, sapien magna ;-)

  • now that I look, sapien magna does not translate as smart guy. Well, that sucks big time, don’t it?

  • Akaky – had I been in New York last night, I would have used that $2.25 subway to get to Lincoln Center. There is a station right there, serving both Lincoln Center and the Mormon temple, although I am not allowed enter the latter and probably couldn’t have afforded to enter the former.

    Sidney – Hey – we could get a real horse manure conversation going on here! And of course, you are right to invite Akaky.

  • BILL,

    The names of those two horses are Akaky and AkakyIRL.

  • Pretty late to the news (spent a few days on a beach, far from the web ;), but I wanted to say Congrats to Diego and the Burn gang! Though Burn mag didn’t win the Lucie (this year ;), it sure shows how amazing this adventure has been since DAH’s little blog!

    …And that’s a Huge feat, imho!
    Best, T.

  • a civilian-mass audience

    now,I have to study …Latin,horses too…hmmm…

    how can I follow my photophilosophers?…oime!

  • Χίλια συγγνώμη, πολιτικό, αλλά έφτασα τα χίλια στην Αγορά Burn 02. Το έκανα, πραγματικά!

    You know, I have no damn clue if that’s even vaguely correct.

  • a civilian-mass audience

    I vote for this blog

    Viva FROSTY…


    you are amazing people…

  • ALL

    just popping in here for a minute to thank all of you who wished us well for the Lucie nomination for Best Photography Magazine 2011….would we have liked to win? sure, why not…cool..we won once before and of course it felt good…the only reason i would like to have won is to see Diego and Anna go to the stage…i just wanted to take THAT picture…well, not to be and we tip our hat to the folks at Zoom…after the official presentation at the after party that went til about 3am, the buzz was definitely on Burn…nobody needed to say anything…02 was passed around..the buzz was just on us as if we had won and there was not one single word of coulda shoulda woulda…..the night was just terrific…i had dinner with my first boss Rich Clarkson and Chris Johns , Editor of NatGeo and Jodi Cobb…hung out later with McCurry and Eli Reed….all in all the best possible night….just thought you would like to know…

    cheers, david

  • DAH – Thanks for the report. It makes me feel proud just to be associated with you.

    Sidney… those are good names for those two horses.

    Civi – I appreciate the vote. For all around decent and caring human being, I vote for you.

  • David..

    thanks for the report.. of course THAT picture would have been great to take/see, but all of us appreciative of BURN in general and 02 in particular already have that pic.. well, I know I do..

    Safe travles all and thank you all.. almost almost feel like Civi writing ‘love you alllllll’.. must be the flu ;)

  • a civilian-mass audience

    FROSTY …it may sound weird…BUT I will copy and paste something PANOS wrote some time ago…
    I LOVE YOU mate(in a non gay way) or something like that…

    AKAKY…nobody sucks eggs…I am the one in charge~ eggs and chickens~ my specialty

    EVAAAAAAA…chicken soup ASAP…sending good energy…it’s coming your way…
    love you amiga(in a non gay way)

    oime…VIVA BURN !!!

  • a civilian-mass audience

    we might be poor BUT we are BURNING…



    i am off to see my mother in Colorado and hopefully catch the last of the aspen fall color….then back home for a few days, and hope we can skype then…maybe tuesday or wednesday? want to talk to you more about your role in a workshop environment in Sydney in May as per a short previous conversation…my Rio show, a Burn show, and a workshop and all the stuff that goes on for the photo fest…anyway, look forward to talking to you “in person”…then to Rio….

    cheers, david

  • Flipping through MAGNUM CONTACTSHEETS.. definitely NOT a book to bed, weights a ton at least, but definitely a book to study.. will take some time.. nice, yup..

  • … to take, to take, to take to bed.. proof read..

  • Eva, sounded better the first time!

    While I was reading your post I received an email: new book from magnum – Magnum Contact Sheets. Amazing. I’ll be checking it out. What’s you first impression Eva?


  • Has anyone seen a truly good photo essay of Occupy yet? Okay, so “good photo essay” and “protest” is usually an oxymoron but … everything I’ve seen is standard straight ahead american pj or people with signs or … just mediocre. With encampments, I guess I expected more. Maybe I missed it.

  • Eva and Mike R…

    Have you both seen these?



    and this!

  • Mike :)

    First impression: rip it apart.. wish it came in sheets in a box instead of a book..

    Now, seriously, first thing I did was looking through the index and finding DAH.. I knew the picture that has been chosen, but seeing the sister positives before and after and reading his little piece of interview explains how the picture came about.. just looking through the dias it is clear why it is THIS one.. the text helps understand how the photograper works.

    Then I’ve only looked at Martine Franck’s pool picture (she has more than one sheet) and Ferdinando Scianna’s dog in Varanasi.. completely different situations.. Scianna has two frames of it, Franck almost half a roll.. both texts explain their “why and how”.. most interesting, really looking forward to spend time exploring it..

  • Paul..

    Yes.. but have also seen the price tags, too steep.. :(

  • Tom Hyde – Three who went through David’s Loft workshop with me photographed Occupy and, to this date, their’s is the most original and telling coverage that I have seen on the subject. Taken as a trilogy, they tell a story I have not seen elsewhere.

    Andy Krupa
    Tracie Williams
    Uwe Schober

    Civi – The love you give comes back.

  • David Tuesday/Wednesday I will make sure that I am around…….. thanks.
    as seen on youtube Sam’s show from 2010

  • Imants; thanks for that video; it was nice to see Sam’s exhibition!

    David; congratulations to you and all those who helped achieve the nomination. Great stuff!

  • Eva: Thanks for pointing out ContactSheets is finally available. I can’t wait to see it…but my birthday is coming up soon. I’ll have a chat with my sister! :)

    Tom: Thanks for your query. I had forgotten all about my Occupy Toronto shots, but had wanted to post them here. I think like many of the protests throughout North America, the people I saw on Day One at the gathering, march, and long-term protest site were of all ages and socio-economic groups. Very peaceful, and plenty of meeting and greeting among all the factions. I heard on the radio today that many of those in the tents go to work during the day, then return in the evening to sleep.

  • I hope people don’t mind but before I knock it on the head for the evening, as it’s late here in London, I have just published my first book on the Apple iBookstore, should anyone be interested. A little visual wit with a pinch of social anthropology observing US flag etiquette in New York between 1994 and 2008.

    The US store is at and the UK store is at It’s in 14 countries right now in the iPhone/iPod Touch edition with the iPad edition to follow shortly (though it’ll look fine on the iPad too). £2.99 and $5.99, so not expensive.

    I used 6 programs to make this book. I will write a tutorial on the process soon should anyone be interested to test the ebook market with me.

    Thank you and good night all.

    Paul Treacy

  • ALL,
    Sorry if it was already posted, but there was a nice article about Tim Hetherington, his last work and his ‘legacy’ (by his friend M. Kamber) in the NYT: Exactly 6 months after Tim & Chris Hondros died in Libya, Qaddafi was killed, and the war is now over…

    ps: There are now two photo grants, in honor of both those amazing guys and great photographers: &

  • Paul – Thanks for the link. I plan to test the ebook market with you. No time now, but when thing lighten up next week I will followup.

  • Nothing about “OCCUPY”, Tom, but the photos in that link are the best I’ve seen, concerning the floods in bangkok, much better than the link I passed on 48 hours ago. I like the one with the rat anxious to dive in (or not), and of course the 2 paddling monks laughing, showing the quintessential quality of thai people, making the most of a situation, even as dire as it is now:

  • HERVE,

    Thanks for that link. Those photos really convey the extent of the inundation in Thailand and its effect on daily life.

  • A photographer you Burn people might take a look at:

    This was published on ‘Le Monde’ website but she also has a website you could Google…

  • Ok, if you are lazy :-), here is the link to her website:

  • Or is it Artek? I don’t know. Find it hrd to decide… :

  • Great link(s) John, thank you.


  • a civilian-mass audience

    MR.J.VINK…thank you again for the links…a true visionary brings true vision in BURNLAND!!!

    MIKER,PAUL…and others…EVA has a book addiction…she is a confirmed case…oime
    you don’t help me at all here:))))))

    PAULT…best wishes out there…!

    EVA…get well SOON…we need you here…!



    Greece will be back …2021…I hope I will be alive to celebrate…
    Thank you Europe…!

    I will be back…and I do Love you ALLLLLL!!!

  • John Vink..

    Her ‘Peuples de Sibérie’ is one great book too.. we just don’t need to tell Civi I got that one too.. plus she’s very nice, shipping fast and kind all around!

  • Eva: Yes indeed a very nice book. I won’t tell Civi…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    I can hear youuuu…helloooo:)))))))

  • Tom Hyde – re OWS – I’m trying…I’m now focused on a story within the story for which the photos are hard won, but I’ll try to make you proud :)

  • Contact info for Oakland Mayor Jean Quan, who ordered the police to assault the Occupy Oakland protesters last night with tear gas and rubber bullets. Let her know what you think.

    Home: 510-539-8361
    Cell: 510-409-7948
    Work: 510-238-7004

  • Oakland Spends Millions in Attack on Occupy Protesters, Closes 5 Schools Next Day

    On Tuesday evening at 5pm Occupy Oakland gathered at the foot of the Oakland Library on 14th Avenue before setting off on a march past the jail and onward to Frank Ogawa Plaza. The peaceful gathering swelled as it marched through downtown, growing upwards of 1,000 people strong. Along their route were police from 17 jurisdictions in California, decked out in riot gear and weaponry.

    Just before 8pm the police began throwing concussion grenades and tear gas directly into the crowd, injuring several nonviolent protesters. Weapons were aimed and fired at people as they attempted to help the injured and bring them to safety. The crowd reconvened a block away and continued to peacefully occupy the streets outside the plaza. For several hours this scenario was repeated as citizens tried to gain entrance to the plaza while the police held their line using “non-lethal” rifles, tear gas, and barricades.

    The city has spent several million dollars in this campaign to shut down free speech in Oakland. Meanwhile today the Oakland Unified School District will vote on closing down 5 schools: Lakeview, Lazear, Marshall, Maxwell Park and Santa Fe. They will meet at 5pm at Oakland Technical High, where they will be met with protestors from Occupy Oakland and other groups demanding a more sane and just allocation of the city’s resources.

    Occupy Oakland will reconvene every day at 6pm at 14th & Broadway until the camp is reestablished. Join us!

  • Oakland Mayor Jean Quan

    SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    sHE ordered the police to assault the Occupy Oakland protesters last night with tear gas and rubber bullets. Let her know what you think.

    Home: 510-539-8361
    Cell: 510-409-7948
    Work: 510-238-7004

  • All, call the work number above and request to free the protesters ..plz do not try cellphone coz the Mayor was “smart” enough to disconnect the service (i doubt if disconnection service fees applied though)…

    but the Work number is active…send your message!
    keep California free of Gaddafis etc…!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • John, Mike R… bookmarked your links for a day when I have time to look at them..

    Erica – so fun to have met you on the stairway – I want to to see the hard won photos, too.

    Civi – yes, you must still be here, then.

    And this is all I have time for today.

    I am in hell. Self-inflicted hell, generated by the work I love, which, ironically, gets in the way of my doing the work I love but hell none-the-less.

    I’ll stop by again tomorrow, when I will still be in hell.

  • GG,

    Thanks for that link to the photos of the Oakland “Draft Riots” of 1967. The photos are especially poignant for me because I remember the event well… at that very time I was still a soldier in the US Army a few miles away in Monterey, CA… several friends of mine were involved in Joan Baez’s Peace Institute and took part in the sit-ins… a month later I was out of the army, and by early spring I was back in New York, an active participant out on the streets in the antiwar movement. To younger people it may seem like a long, long time ago… to me it falls within the sphere of personal memory. Great pictures that bring it all back!

  • Tom Hyde,
    About OWS & the protest photography, I have to agree with you (though I’d like to see what Erica -& others- will show), but you might wanna take a lot at this:
    Best, T.

  • Panos- I want to see an instagram of you tebowing. (
    I know you can do it.

  • We live in an age of occupation; not one of actually having an occupation, not with unemployment rates being what they are these days; but of actual occupation, usually by scruffy leftists with nothing better to do with their time and their parents’ money. Cities from one end of this our Great Republic to the other are now occupied and I have even seen a photograph of someone deciding to occupy the Alaskan tundra, although what the tundra’s role in creating our current economic malaise is something of a Rosicrucian mystery to me. In fact, the only two places to have escaped occupation these days appear to be the poles. I can understand why the Antarctic is unoccupied; a place populated by relentlessly tuxedoed 1% penguins will not tolerate having a bunch of overeducated layabouts panhandling in their neighborhoods and driving down the property values, not if the penguins have something to say about it.

    In the Arctic, on the other hand, matters are a bit more problematic. The occupiers of the world want to save the polar bear, but the polar bears have an image problem that I’ll get to in a minute, and a habitat problem. The habitat problem is this: the polar icecaps are melting at a humongously prodigious rate; we can all expect to hear that Santa Claus will have to relocate his workshop from the North Pole to a special enterprise zone on the coast of China sometime in the near future; and that said prodigious rate of melting will threaten the polar bears with extinct. I should point out that all three of these problems actually don’t matter to me. I live at the top of a large hill and I think I can ride the melt out, and to be honest I wouldn’t mind having some beachfront property of my very own without actually having to pay for it; everything that Santa Claus brings me already comes from a special enterprise zone on the coast of China, so I suspect that this polar icecap stuff is just the usual corporate excuse to break the United Very-Short Toymakers union and move all those jobs offshore, and I don’t care one way or the other about whether or not the polar bear survives in the long run. But it matters to the polar bears and to those who spend their lives protecting polar bears, because the loss of the icecaps means that the bears now have some major league problems. Their endangerment is not official at this point; right now the people paid to worry about such stuff say that the polar bear’s condition is one of concern. This, I think, is a polite way of saying that the bears are on oxygen and waiting to get into the intensive care unit. It is only a matter of time before we get the bad news that all the polar bears are gone and that viewers of Animal Planet will have to watch grizzlies the producers have spray-painted white hunt elephant seals in the Arctic, which ought to be funny as all freaking hell to watch, given that grizzlies don’t know how to hunt elephant seals in the Arctic or anywhere else that I am aware of. I suspect that the grizzlies know this too, and that they’ll be ordering a lot of their meals from Taco-Bell; refried beans are easier to deal with than elephant seals, even if the beans are harder on the digestive tract.

    I fear I can’t work up much sympathy for the polar bears. Most predators have what zoologists call a prey profile, which is just a fancy zoological way of saying a menu. Cheetahs, for example, love small gazelles, black footed ferrets won’t eat anything except prairie dogs, sperm whales like giant squid, and loan sharks absolutely love compulsive gamblers. Human beings aren’t on too many of the animal kingdom’s prey profiles; we are too bony and there isn’t enough meat on most people for your average predator to waste time and energy on catching us, with the possible exception of sumo wrestlers and, let’s face it, those guys can take care of themselves. Animals that go out of their way to eat humans are usually too old or in too bad a shape to hunt anything else, or else they mistake the person for an animal on their grocery list of comestibles, something that often happens to surfers, who remind sharks of seals. This is what happens when you are too proud to go get yourself a pair of glasses.

    But with polar bears, humans are definitely on the menu. There isn’t enough to eat on your average ice floe for a polar bear to be picky about its dinner, and so if an elderly Nanook of the North wanders by on his way to the Happy Hunting Grounds the polar bear will go for the gusto and have some Inuit tartare to go along with that side dish of whale blubber and a nice Bordeaux; in the Arctic you never know where your next meal is coming from so you best take advantage of these opportunities when they present themselves. While this omnivorous attitude may make sense to the polar bear, it does mean the loss of a certain something in the sympathy column. I am all for giving the natural world a break, but not when I am the main course. I know I wouldn’t eat a polar bear and I expect the same courtesy from them. That I am not going to get the same courtesy from them means that as far as I am concerned, the polar bears are on their own. Maybe Coca-Cola can stop using animated polar bears in their Christmas commercials and start using live ones. It’s an idea.

  • Extinction, dammit, not extinct!!! YOU MUST LEARN TO PROOFREAD THIS STUFF!!!

    AKAKY IRL: Kiss my ass.

  • ALL…

    i am still around, and i still care!!..however, i lost the internet in new york for three days, now with my mother at home in colorado where being on the computer is almost illegal..back home by monday, can chat with you a bit then, and then off to RIO for a month to finish up that book….

    things are cooking…all around…will let you know soonest…

    cheers, david

  • Panos…

    You know I love SFJason, but if I catch you “Tebowing” I might have to come down there and smack the shit out of you! ;^}

  • a civilian-mass audience

    oime…I will second AKAKYIRL,yes…whatever AKAKYIRL said…:)

    MICHAELK….yes,yes…PANOS,if I catch you “Teddy boy”…:))))))))

    EVA…we need update,flooding in Italy…are you ok? feeling better? November is almost here…
    my favorite month…!!!

    BURNIANS…I know you are out there shooting…BUT I would love to see some reports NOW

    sending good energy to THAILAND,TURKEY,ITALY and to the Universe!

    goodmorning from Grecolandia…I am not giving up

  • a civilian-mass audience

    MR.HARVEY…we are sending all our love to MRS.MAMA SOCRATES …MRS.HARVEY

  • Sidney,
    thanks for your comment.
    For the last decade or so I’ve wished to make contact with a guy who was on the other side of the line at the time, who may have survived the war and more . . .
    A long time ago – indeed – and still the parallels to our present days are omnipresent.


  • DAVID,

    I am making a stop in town today to do some work for a client, might have time to grab coffee in the early afternoon. Off to Portland in the morning, via Denver. Maybe our paths will cross! If your downtown & up for a quick cup let me know…970.769.2939

    Safe travels as always…Talk soon. Jeremy


    i am going to be downtown starting at about 10:30 this morn….going by gallery of course…text me, call me…hope we meet

  • my taxi driver through his car mirror

  • a good friend and great mentor from OBX

    Happy Halloween y’all! big hug! cheer up!

  • Panos, Kim, Lola and every Burnian…

    Happy Halloween and yes cheer up!!
    Where is everybody these days? :)

  • Paul,
    received my Magnum Contact Sheets Book – now reading and studying .. and – preparing for a businesstrip to Wales, Monday – Wednesday.

  • DAH
    I want to see a photograph of your mommy.

  • Gordon – see the twitter instagram feed for a birthday photo of DAH’s mom.

    Tom Hyde – Ashley Gilbertson’s take on Occupy Wall Street:

  • Dear Burnians,

    Hope this message finds you well. I am making my annual trip from China to the US this week and am going to be in and around DC and NYC for the next couple of weeks. Should any of you be around, it would be great to catch up/meet over a coffee, beer, lunch, dinner etc.

    Is anyone going to be at FotoDC? I’ll be at the opening party on the Friday 4th Nov. I’ll have a set of pictures on display in the Pulitzer Center’s exhibit.

    Drop me a line on if you fancy meeting!


  • a civilian-mass audience


    yes, she is our inspiration…MR.HARVEY thank you for sharing!

  • a civilian-mass audience

    welcome home SEAN…

    I will back for the HalloWIN party !!!

  • a civilian-mass audience

    and I do love you ALLLLLLLLL!

  • Oh, those empathetic foreclosure firms and their homeless-themed parties! So clever.

    When we spoke later, she added that the snapshots are an accurate representation of the firm’s mind-set. “There is this really cavalier attitude,” she said. “It doesn’t matter that people are going to lose their homes.” Nor does the firm try to help people get mortgage modifications; the pressure, always, is to foreclose.


  • wow…michael…thats messed up…homeless Halloween party?

  • Happy Birthday Mrs H!!!


  • Photographic exhibition at Somerset House, London: Amazon by Sebastiao Salgado and Per Anders Pettersson.

  • Joseph Koudelka interview…

  • Sweet, thanks Paul!

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Wow…PAUL…thanks for sharing …this is an interview by Greek Fivo Sakali(Φὅιβος Σακαλης)

    and wow again…cause I have the same accent with MR.KUDELKA…oime,maybe my long,lost brother…hiiii

    I see snow,I see floods,I see earth kicking…Keep shooting,be strong…
    if you see that too…it means that you are still downstairs…


  • a civilian-mass audience

    and good morning from BBB* Grecolandia


    Happy HALLOWIN !!!

  • Thanks a million Paul!
    “…I see, Black N White.”

  • Speaking about Koudelka…

    As I’ve said too many times before I’ve been playing the guitar for ages. It’s what I probably know most about, because it’s been with me since I was eight years old. I could wax hours and hours round the Burn campfire about Jimmy Pages’ leggato playing, Jime Hendrix’s jazz big band influence on his solos, stories I’ve read and heard and seen on TV about SRV sticking super glue on the tip of his destroyed fingertips all because he loved playing with FAT strings. The same goes with Blackmoore, Vai, Satriani, Paco de Lucia and on and on and on, I recognize their different guitarist stylistic traits, signuture riffs, favourite chords, scales etc and etc. You could blind fold me and I’ll probably recognize most different snippets of a range of guitar solos and tell you most likely who it was and in some cases which solo what year and where it was recorded if it was live and played by either Jimmy Page or Hendrix. I know what makes them tick. Bring me a new guitarist I’ve never heard before and after listening a couple of times to his or her playing I recognize their influences, tastes and most likely what little details make them good or bad.
    But my problem is I can’t do this with photography!! I keep stopping by my local bookshop to skim through Koudelka’s “Gysies” which has recently been republished and I love it intensely. But I don’t know why I do, I don’t have enough photographic experience to understand why I love it, I can’t see what are his common stylistic traits, what makes him who he is, what’s good about his work or what makes him iconic. Why is he so good? The same happens with other great Icons and once I’ve been explained why he is who is, I get it and see all that I’ve missed but I need helping with it.
    Is this a common problem or just me being too blind or hurrying to much to learn?

  • Some more Koudelka…

    “I like my life the way I live it. What I don’t have, I don’t need. I never had a car, never had a TV, never had a cell phone. For fifteen years I didn’t have an apartment anywhere, and for seventeen years, I didn’t even have a passport.”
    Josef Koudelka

  • ALL

    damn ..i lost about a half hour ramble here…kills me…it was GOOD STUFF..well now heading for a plane home and will try to re create the mood…damn..i hate this!!

    anyway, probably best saved for a new Dialogue post anyway

    long and short of it is that bunch of new things getting ready to happen here..yes, a new website and iPad app, but more..

    traveling today home..bunch of personal things i gotta take care of but off soon to Rio to make the book…this personal book is coming like a freight train as is the NG story..both will be very different from each other….you can imagine NG…you will not be able to imagine my personal book.. ..both come in the spring….

    once home i will try to rewrite what i just lost….the WHAT of it of course will not change…just need to get back in the mood…writing and photography are similar in that respect…no mood no words, no mood no pictures…

    back soonest…stay tuned..

    cheers, david

  • PAUL

    you are a great guy with an inquisitive mind…and you are studying studying…always with great quotes here from all over…this is not bad..i am always chastising my students a bit for not knowing what you know..but now, you are studying too much!!…put down the books, and pick up the camera…you are OVER THINKING….you are trying like hell to LEARN something which must be instinctive…you can learn process but you cannot learn how to be a great photographer nor even an editor…i do not teach my students how to take pictures…i just try to inspire them and get them into the right frame of mind to do great work, or at least max out their own abilities… you now need to tap into another part of your psyche…you should have your inspirations by now..for sure you do..i can read it right here in NOW go take a picture..and do not go back for reference..and then go take another one…start building your own thing…without worrying about anybody..forget us all…just go do it…then come back when you are done…that is the way it is…

    cheers, hugs, david

  • Paul, great post Paul, you don’t love the music of Hendrix, Page et al. because you recognize it: you love the music first and later learn more about their prsonal lives. It’s the same with photography; we see new work here on a regular basis and often it’s like, Wow! We don’t know the photographer; we have never seen their work before but it doesn’t matter: we love PHOTOGRAPHY and whatever else we learn about the photographs or photographers is secondary. What would you say to someone who could recite a list of the location of every Hendrix gig and the make of every instrument that he ever played but who had never heard any of his music? Horse before cart? For sure you are learning about the photographic heritage that we all share and build upon. As DAH says, now go take a picture; make it a “Paul”.

    Good light Paul,


  • a civilian-mass audience

    Trick or treat…

    Spread the Love…Spread the ouzo…I am HAPPYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY cause I have YOUUUUUUU

    VIVA BURN…yes, go out and spread the news…YOU ARE ALL AMAZING!!!

  • “long and short of it is that bunch of new things getting ready to happen here..yes, a new website and iPad app, but more..”

    Safe travels.

  • Trick or Treat Civi! Ouzo on me!

  • No idea how to embed youtube thingies, but posting this here in dialogue too, Laura El-Tantawy interviewed by Zarina Holmes:

  • Given the meteorological events here in the northeastern corner of this our Great Republic over the past twenty-four hours, I am wondering if trick or treating in a one horse open sleigh is in order, or would that confuse the children even more than they appear to be at the moment? On the other hand, I am one of the very few folks in this area who did not lose power, which surprises the hell out of me, as my little nook of our happy little burg is invariably the first to lose power in any such emergency and the last to get it back, so I am happy; living in the 19th century may be fun for a couple of hours, but after that it turns into a major pain in the bahakas. And a very Happy Birthday, Mrs. Harvey, and may it be the first of many, many more.

  • Paul, remember the words of the great American philosopher Lawrence Peter Berra: “You can’t hit and think at the same time.”

  • Paul,
    Your post parallels somewhat similar thoughts I have myself about the mystery of great photography.

    Although I have years of experience & inspiration with drumming (since 4th grade), I still struggle to find my vision or inspiration in photography (well, since 2005). Just how do great photographers find their vision? What makes those photographs magical? How can I learn to take great photos?
    By now I realize inspiration is not in a specific focal length or piece of equipment. Been there and done that.
    I know I can’t learn how to take photos like Sam Abell even when he explains how he composes photos on Youtube. And nobody can teach me how to make “Quiet & Compelling” photographs either.
    However, I found moments of photo inspiration and pre-visualization happen when listening to music on my ipod. When Im alone, left to myself.
    Perhaps I should tap into that mood and explore with a camera….perhaps.

  • Happy Birthday Mrs.Maryanna Harvey

    a heart

    and Happy Halloween UncleP. Aunt Kim and my friends at home.


  • El Señor DAH,

    Felicidades del Dia de los Muertos!

    La Ausencia es la Madrastra del Amor.

    As Don Juan says, Death is an advisor… and as Will Shakespeare says, “… all our yesterdays have lighted fools the way to dusty Death… Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player who struts and frets his hour upon the stage…”

    Time flies like an arrow, mi amigo (but fruit flies like a banana!)

    We would all do well to remember that our days are numbered, no matter how much young people may believe in their hearts that they themselves are immortal.

    So spare a thought, when next you raise a glass, for all those who have gone before… and have a care for the crows, the worms, and the germs that will devour us and turn us back into the fertilizer from which we came.

    (Some have left shadows behind, on flat surfaces of celluloid, paper, or canvas screens… in hopes of a shadowy immortality?)

  • happy birthday Mrs. Harvey…
    i think youve done a wonderful job with your famous son.

    i bet your fingers can still pinch if he misbehaves..

  • Yes – Happy birthday, Mrs. Harvey. I have, indeed, noticed that your son photographs many beautiful women, but, he is right, you are the most beautiful of them all. He is fortunate to have you.

  • David, I find it intriguing to read that your Rio book and Rio Nat Geo article will be very different from each other: did you find yourself doing mental editing “This is for me, this is for NG” when shooting or is the difference solely down to editing. Obviously, NG approach any subject from a geographic perspective and this influences their choice of photographs.

    On a technical note; the DAH flesh coloured band aid over the flash head: this is to match the colour temperature of the ambient light typical of when using flash, right … wrong? I tried to buy the DAH band aid from B&H but it doesn’t seem to be listed.

    Hope Rio brings you all you want,


  • David….maybe you’ll run into these guys in RIO:

    well…this is for everybody here as well :)

  • Carlo! That’s a great suggestion..I’m always trying to track them(i was impressive since the first time I’ve listened Sambô. Original signature in a generation of briliant new sounds coming up from the old and good samba) but they hardly come to Rio and looking at their agenda for the next months..David and us(cariocas)won’t be fortunate this time :( Hope to meet some Burn mates in Rio soon

  • a civilian-mass audience

    As SIDNEY says…”Time flies like an arrow, mi amigo (but fruit flies like a banana!)”
    oime…our ACADEMIANS !!!

    today ouzo on CARLO and ROBERTA…yeap!

    AKAKY…500 for you.I am busy…tracking down my chickens!
    LOVE YOU ALLL…I will be back

  • I would revel in the 500th, but I am in mourning for the loss of my beard. Last night I tried to trim back the mustache, which had reached near Twain-like proportions, but as I do not have much of an upper lip, the margin for error in trimming is slight, and in last night’s misadventure I was left with a half moon sized indentation for which there was no cure except immediate debeardification. So I am now shorn of facial hair for the first time in years, and there is no better reminder of why I grew the beard in the first place than having to look at my face without the beard. All is not lost, however; in four months time the face will have replaced the damage and all will be well.

  • You should have just shaved the mustache and kept the beard. I think the Amish look would be good for you. And I’m sure we could have all chipped in and bought you a straw hat. Next time don’t be so rash.

  • AVE AKAKI..ump..oof…hey stop…ouch!

    AKAKY: Do you think anyone saw us?

    AKAKY IRL: I don’t think so. Hit him again and make sure he’s unconscious.

    AKAKY: What do we do then?

    AKAKY IRL: Call a cop and tell them we’ve got a drunk here who needs to sleep it off down at the precinct.

    AKAKY: What if he tells them we hit him with an aluminum baseball bat?

    AKAKY IRL: That dimwit is running for mayor of Pompeii, a city in Italy a volcano destroyed 2,000 years ago. Who the hell are the cops gonna believe, you or him?

    AKAKY: Yeah, you got a point there.

    AKAKY IRL: Damn right I do.

  • Sorry, mw, the Amish look is not for me. The last thing I need is someone showing up on my doorstep looking for advice on how to raise a barn or wondering if I can get them Kelly McGillises(?) phone number.

  • One such moment occurred at Occupy San Francisco when someone shouted, “How many … American deaths…. in Iraq and Afghanistan?”

    A response popped up and was amplified through the crowd, “About nine thousand.” (A number that includes military contractors killed.)

    Then another voice shouted, “What about … the deaths … of people not American?”

    There was no answer to that, but that the question was asked raises awareness about the terrible swath of war beyond America borders. (The answer? Approximately 1.5 million Iraqis. Afghans? Unclear; the American military doesn’t “do body counts.”)

  • Occupy how come there is that high vacancy at night? Most that are really disenfranchised by the capitalist system are too busy to occupy as the are working or busy looking for work



  • Disenfranchised does not mean that they are ignorant to the realities of trying to live. Seems a bit dismissive.

  • David and Mike R…

    I’ve decided to stop worrying, you’re absolutely right I’m over thinking! I keep measuring my work against those who are finer than I, this is something I’ve overdone recently, it naturally has awarded me distress and doubt. So from now on I’ll try working in autopilot, gently letting go of others and proudly waving the flag of my inspirations but not judging every step I take and always aware I must work to the best of my ability. I’ll put an end to the regrets, chance, the nearly, the undefined I have overused as an alibi for my failures and grip with all my strength the definite and the certain. I’ll elegantly ride all that can’t be domesticated or disciplined, which is always an excess and await it’s surprises and serendipity with a mixture anxiety and fun. So from now on it’s only about me, myself and I, as I stare in the mirror at my fears, loathes and loves…
    And what an awkward weight have I suddenly been relieved of!!

  • Not dismissing anything I am just stating that those with the biggest stake in the situation are busy keeping day to day life on the move. I never wrote that they were ignorant Frank that’s your take on it not mine.
    I have been invoked with unions and protests on the nuts and bolts level since the 70’s and there is always a alternative system offered. Here there seems to be very little and continual diversions of attention into other issues. This single anti with the “Tea party” type of manifesto obsession alienates large sectors of the community.
    I actually remember those heady days when street protests were fashionable and very little was achieved economically then. Greater gains were made by hard gritty behind the scenes campaigning.
    The Arab spring worked because it focused on the issue at hand and had real support from the rank and file.

  • Sorry – misinterpreted the tenor of your comment. Thought I read sarcasm, now I see there was none intended.

  • Better structured answer too many typos in the first…. that cardinal sin writing on the run without editing ……………..

    Not dismissing anything I am just stating that those with the biggest stake in the situation are busy keeping day to day life on the move. I never wrote that they were ignorant Frank that’s your take on it not mine.
    I have been involved with unions and protests on the nuts and bolts level since the 70′s and there is always a alternative system offered. Here there seems to be very little on offer and there is a continual diversion of attention into other issues. This along with a anti “Tea Party” type of manifesto obsession alienates large sectors of the community.

    I actually do remember those heady days when street protests were fashionable and very little was achieved economically then though there were substantial social gains made that have been all sadly eroded or lost over the past few decades. Greater equity gains were made by hard gritty behind the scenes campaigning.The Arab spring worked because it focused on the issue at hand and had real support from the rank and file.
    Too much “hip pocket” politicizing going on on in this campaign that Peter Paul syndrome

  • I suspect there was a little bit of a knee-jerk reaction on my part, as I have seen/heard/read so many people dismissing and belittling the groups around the country.

  • I think that the Occupy movement is great but it is now time to give it real structure and direction and campaign on the next level, otherwise it will be a stalemate with little real support.

  • Somehow “They” seem to be having a great deal of success while totally ignoring the advice of the old folks who are so much more experienced in that kind of thing. But on another hand, I’ve seen little evidence of a “They” there.

    Though the NYT this morning told me “They” have issued a bunch of new rules and will summarily kick anyone out who breaks them. I ask myself who “They” are that “They” can kick someone out of a public park. Maybe wall street should just hire “Them” as security flacks and put an end to it all.

  • One of the great ancillary benefits of the movement is that I saw so many passionate, thoughtful, engaging discussions between people. Loved that.

  • One needs more than passion and discussion to make things happen. With about 70% of the word’s population without access to the internet traditional forms of communication still have to be pursued as well.

    It’s a hard one when some of “us” become “they”

  • Policeman listens to NWA’s fuck the police.

  • PAUL

    with an attitude like yours, all things will always be good…oh yes the occasional bump in the road, but positive thinking tends to work….the pictures you are taking i like…free as a bird , go for it..and enjoy … i cannot emphasize enough the joy involved with intense yet relaxed in the zone work…

    cheers, david


    i agree with you all the way…i guess the revolutions that were before us years ago seem to be repeating themselves a bit…but yes, we all know what is wrong..but if we do not know what is right, and have some fix it plan/mechanism in place, then what is wrong gets worse….

    it used to be easy..Marxism vs. Capitalism….a few thousand dead bodies and a Cold War later and capitalism wins..and the doves fly into the sunset and violins play..or?? well, we are not going back to Karl i don’t think…always did sound good though…but real solutions? nope… is the system fine, but needs tweaking? or, what?? i think the dialogue is terrific…folks paying attention…democracy at work…but democracy at work looks like a nightmare….always…

    cheers, david


    yes, Bill our guys did do it the best i have seen…or, at least as good as anything since…missing you my friend….you and i could not live any further apart and still be in the U.S. and yet i felt like i met a brother i did not know i had with you…can we meet in the middle? Detroit?

    cheers, david

  • Here’s a transcript, thanks to Felipe Messina of Media Roots:

    Michael Moore: “Greetings, Oakland! Occupy Oakland! Occupy Oakland! Occupy Oakland! Occupy everywhere!! I, I am honoured to be here, to be part of this. Uh, to the media who are present, uh, let me stress to you, this movement has no spokesperson. Everyone here is a spokesperson. Everyone here, everyone here has a story to tell. There are people here who have no health insurance. There are people here who do not have a job. There are people here who are living in poverty. There are people here who have jobs, but have been told to take less. And I invite you to interview the thousands of other spokespeople who are here at Occupy Oakland. Someone asked me, ‘Who is the leader of this organisation?’ [Guffaws] And I said, ‘We are all the leaders! Everyone here!’ We are all leaders. And we are all followers. We are all doing this together. The media and the power establishment is having a hard time figuring this out. So, be patient with them. They are used to just a few people showing up with a few signs and then they go away and have a meeting in the basement of the Unitarian Church. God bless the Unitarians, by the way. Those in charge in this country and the media arm of Wall Street and corporate America were not prepared for this to be happening in hundreds, hundreds of cities across this country right now! Hundreds! And it has, it has happened with no leaders, no organisation, no dues pay, no dues to pay. It’s happened organically from the grassroots, the true grassroots. And in my lifetime, I have never seen a movement like this take hold this fast with this many people all across the country. Thank you, everyone, all of us for doing this. And there’s no turning back, is there?”

    Crowd: “No!!!”

    Michael Moore: “There’s no turning back!!”

    Crowd: “No!!!”

    Michael Moore: “I was at Occupy Wall Street last night, in Zuccotti Park, Liberty Plaza, and I am here to bring greetings from the original Occupy Wall Street. Thank you, Oakland! Thank you, Oakland!”

    Audience Member (male): “Power to the people! Power to the people!”

    Michael Moore: “I said, I said, ‘What are we gonna do with winter coming?’ It was almost a freezing rain last night in New York City. I said, ‘What are we gonna do with winter coming?’ And they said, ‘There’s two guys over there right now who have flown in from Occupy Anchorage.”

    Crowd: [Laughs]

    Michael Moore: “And they are here to consult with us on how to make it through the winter!”

    Crowd: [Laughs Cheers]

    Michael Moore: “They said there’s even an ice company in New Jersey that has offered large blocks of ice to build igloos in Zuccotti Park. The Mayor, and the Police, and Wall Street are hoping that the winter will kill the movement in the same way that they don’t understand that this is a leaderless organisation with tens of millions of spokespeople. They also don’t understand that weather is not the problem facing us right now. Climate change is facing us. But the weather in New York City is not going to stop this incredible movement. Let me just give you an idea, uh, because I’ve been travelling the country, what I’ve seen. Uh, there’s a town about, maybe a hundred and fifty miles east of here called Grass Valley, California. Are you familiar with it?”

    Crowd: “Yeah!!!” [Cheers]

    Michael Moore: “Where the hell is Grass Valley, right? No, I know where it is. Nobody across the country knows Grass Valley. And, of course, the media doesn’t know Grass Valley. But last weekend, in Grass Valley, there were 400 people participating in Occupy Grass Valley. 400 people! There’s, there’s only a few thousand people in the town. Alright? And, and everyone was there, old, young, out of work, people with work, the spread of American society is at each of these. You could see it right now. I can see it. I am sitting here looking at the mosaic that this country is right now, right here in Oakland. This is—”

    Audience Member (male): “Hey cameraman, turn around and take a picture.”

    Michael Moore: “We’ll get the cameras to turn around here, just a sec-, you know, I don’t understand it either. I’ve wondered this for a long time. Uh, and I’ve tried to explain to them that this is not what people want to be looking at while they’re eating dinner and watching the six o’clock news. So, I’m sorry. But I’m getting healthy. And I’m now in my tenth month with no red meat. [Guffaws]”

    Crowd: “Whoo!!!”

    Michael Moore: “And that will be the sound bite on the evening news.”

    Crowd: [Laughs]

    Michael Moore: “Now, this is the first of these that I’ve spoken at where there’s an amplified sound system. Um, what laws are we breaking here?”

    Audience Member (male): “A lot.”

    Michael Moore: “A lot of laws? [Chuckles] Um—”

    Audience Member (male): “We set it up just for you!”

    Michael Moore: “Thank you! Thank you. Um, Mayor Quan is having a press conference right now. Uh—”

    Crowd: “Boo!!!”

    Michael Moore: “—upstairs. I sent her an email asking if we could, uh, speak, um, while I was here. Uh, but I have to tell you the other night, uh, both Tuesday and Wednesday night, um, not being here and watching from afar, uh, what took place here, um, was really horrifying, uh, to see this in this country. Um, it made, it made, it made the rest of the people in the United States aware of something that maybe many of you had been aware of for the last decade and that is the militarisation of our local police departments.”

    Crowd: “Yeah!! [Cheers Applause] Fuck the police!”

    Michael Moore: “The Congress is not allowed to tell the public how much is spent on Homeland Security, but these local police departments all across the country over the last ten years have sucked up, literally, billions of dollars to buy sophisticated equipment, to buy armaments that you use in a warzone—”

    Crowd: “Boo!”

    Michael Moore: “—to buy tanks, to set up spying systems.”

    Audience Member (male): “On our tax dollars.”

    Michael Moore: “Yes, we paid for this. And, um, and to prepare for what they believe is the inevitable, which is the people, sooner or later, aren’t going to take it any longer.”

    Crowd: “Whoo!!!”

    Michael Moore: “Ten years—”

    Audience Member (male): “Don’t protect the corporations!!!”

    Audience Member (male): “Fuck them!”

    Crowd: “Shhh. Shhh.”

    Michael Moore: “Ten years after 9/11, the majority of Americans realise who the real terrorists are. They are the people who, who create policies and who do things that literally do kill people. For instance, a Congressional Committee last month released these figures. They wanted to find out how many Americans die every year because, simply from the fact, that they don’t have health insurance. They didn’t go to the doctor ‘cos they didn’t have insurance. Nearly 45,000 Americans die every year simply because they don’t have health insurance. My friends, that is fifteen 9/11s every single year! A system, a system that is set up to harm our own citizens! A profit-making insurance system! Who said that it is morally correct to make a profit off people when they get sick? Do ya, how, how sick is that? I can tell you—”

    Audience Member (male): “Neocolonialism!”

    Michael Moore: “How much money—”

    Audience Member (male): “Free America!”

    Michael Moore: “—has corporate America made from these two wars? These two illegal, immoral wars? How much have they made? We are still spending over $2 billion dollars a week on these wars. What could we do with that money if it was here in Oakland and Flint, Michigan and across the country? Somebody asked me, coming in here, ‘Who organised this?’

    Scattered Members of Crowd: “We did!!”

    Michael Moore: “Who organised this? I know, I know, I know you think we, the people, organised it, right. [Laughs] Where is Wells Fargo? I just passed it on the street. If you want to know who organised this, they organised it! The people on Wall Street organised this! Bank of America organised this! ExxonMobil, BP organised this! They did more by simply putting their boot on the necks of millions of Americans. And like any human being, like any human being, how long can you keep a boot on your neck?”

    Audience Member (male): “Not one more second, we ain’t takin’ it no more!!!!”

    Michael Moore: “Not for one second with the boot on the neck.”

    Crowd: “Whoo!!!”

    Audience Member (male): “Go, ‘head, Mike.”

    Audience Member (male): “Oakland style, brotha.”

    Michael Moore: “[Laughs] I know. He said, ‘It’s Oakland style. We’re doing this Oakland style.’”

    Audience Member (male): “Occupy!”

    Michael Moore: “Let me tell you something else I’ve discovered across the country. Um, and that is, um, America, contrary to what maybe many here believe and the way it’s portrayed to us in the media, America is not a conservative country. Most Americans are actually quite liberal in their beliefs. They may not call themselves liberals, but if you look at any of the polls, the majority of Americans, come down on the liberal side of the issue on just about every single issue. The majority of Americans are against these wars. The majority of Americans want universal health care. The majority of Americans believe women should be paid the same as men. The majority of Americans—”

    Audience Member (female): “That’s because they are the majority!”

    Michael Moore: “—want stronger environmental laws, not weaker ones.”

    Audience Member (male): “School closures! School closures!”

    Michael Moore: “And for the first time last month, in a poll that was taken, for the first time 54%, the majority of Americans, say they believe gay marriage should be the law of the land.”

    Audience Member (male): “…legalise marijuana!”

    Michael Moore: “That’s the country you live in. That’s the, that’s the country you live in. And I know to people in the Bay Area it may seem to get a little scary as you head toward Richmond.”

    Crowd: [Laughs]

    Michael Moore: “Did I pick the right town?”

    Crowd: [Laughs]

    Michael Moore: “I need another town. What? As you head towards Walnut Creek!”

    Crowd: “Whoo!!!”

    Michael Moore: “I was, I was just trying to remember BART stops. Um. Can I just put that down there? (‘Yeah. I got you.’) Um, but as you go, as you go across this country you see that that’s the country you share, the people out there. That’s why they’re int-, that’s why 72% last week said they believe taxes should be raised on the rich, 72%. So—“

    Crowd: “Whoo!”

    Michael Moore: “So, to the media who are here, um, this is a few thousand people. But everybody here represents a few thousand more, or a few ten thousand more, everybody here. That’s how large this is. That’s why it can’t be stopped. Too many people have been thrown out of their homes. Too many people have had their schools decimated to where their kids aren’t getting a proper education.”

    Audience Member (male): “Five schools are being shut down in Oakland!”

    Michael Moore: “We now live in a country with 40 million adults who are functional illiterates. How did that happen?”

    Audience Member (male): “We’re being oppressed!”

    Michael Moore: “It benefits, it benefits those in charge to have an ignorant population. To have a population with 40 million people in it that cannot read and write above a fourth-grade level. Who benefits from that? It’s like they’ve set up the schools now to make sure that you can operate the cash register at McDonald’s and you know how to greet someone in a sentence with a noun and a verb in it as they come into Walmart. Let me tell you, let me tell ya who does know that this, that the people of this country have had it and that there’s a very progressive thread and vein going through this country right now. That’s the other side, Wall Street, corporate America, the right-wing, they know, they know this is a liberal country! All you have to do is turn on talk radio or Fox News, they’re so angry, they’re so angry aren’t they? Let me ask you this. If this was a conservative, right-wing country, wouldn’t, if you turned on Fox News every night, wouldn’t they just be, ‘Yip-a-dee-do-da, Yip-a-dee-day?’ They’re not that way, are they? They’re like, ‘Aargh!’ Every night, it’s ‘Raargh! Raargh!’ They’re, they’re just, they, there’s a reason why they wanna suppress the vote next year. There’s a reason why they’re passing laws throughout the country to make it harder for poor people, for senior citizens, for people of colour to vote. There’s a reason they’re doing that. What’s the reason? They know, they know, no, it’s very simple, they can do math. They know they’re in the minority. They know they’re in the minority. Otherwise, really, why would you wanna suppress the vote if you thought America agreed with you? You wouldn’t do that, would you? No! If you believed, if you believed that America was with you, you’d be setting up voting booths in every aisle of every Walmart all across the country!”

    Crowd: “Whoo!”

    Michael Moore: “That’s not what they’re doing. Um, I also want to tell you, especially those of you who have been camping out here, um, thank you for doing that. You are better; you are better men and women than I am. Give me another year without the red meat. ‘Wait, we’ve got our second sound bite.’ Um, but watching the other night, um, [long pause] Scott Olsen.”

    Crowd: [Applause]

    Michael Moore: “It is absolutely criminal that this young man was willing to go and risk his life in a war that he, once over there, didn’t agree with, that he would risk his life like this and the only place he had to worry about was here in his own country, in Oakland, California. Um, I think, um, well one thing we can do for the media who are here is to let them know that we are all Scott Olsen. We are all with Scott Olsen! And we are all Scott Olsens! And we will not tolerate our fellow citizens being treated that way by the people that we fund with our tax dollars. I don’t, I don’t pay people, I don’t pay people to take a gun, or a tear gas gun and point it at me and hit me in the head with their ammunition or their tear gas canister. That would be as crazy as me coming up to you right now and saying to you, ‘Oh, by the way, would you just punch me in the face?’ Why would I do that? Um, I think all of us want to send our best wishes, our prayers, our good karma, everything that we could muster to Scott, so that he is better and well. And, yeah, and I think, I think that, uh, let’s have 30 seconds of silence in honour of Scott Olsen and our hope that he will recover quickly from his injuries. Um, I’m goin’ on too long here and, uh, I—”

    Crowd: “Nah!!!”

    Michael Moore: “Well, well, yeah, but. No, no, but I—”

    Audience Member (male): “You gotta get to Richmond!”

    Michael Moore: “I know. Now that I’ve, now that I’ve singled out Richmond, I’m going to have to go and participate in Occupy Richmond.”

    Crowd: “Yeah! Whoo!!”

    Michael Moore: “Or Walnut Creek.”

    Crowd: [Laughs]

    Michael Moore: “Walnut Creek is where we need to be, right? Isn’t that where the money is? Alright.”

    Crowd: [Scattered shouts and appeals]

    Michael Moore: “Um, I, I, I understand that Mayor Quan is, uh, she’s finishing up her press conference. And I am gonna try and, uh, see if I can, uh, talk to her. Uh, you know, I saw her, I’m sorry, I’m sorry that when she came yesterday to talk that she didn’t wait to speak at the General Assembly because I, I think the, uh, well, there’s a, there’s a process, we’re not in a General Assembly right now. But there’s a process at the General Assembly where you sign up to speak and we’re all equals. You know? When I’ve, when I’ve been down, you know, I’ve been at New York, so I’ve been at Occupy Wall Street and if I’m number 17 to speak, I’m number 17 to speak. And it doesn’t matter if I’m Michael Moore or Michael Schmoe. You know. It doesn’t, and, and it’s the spirit, that’s why this movement has built because it is a movement of equals. Everybody has something to give to this. We’re all in this together. We’re gonna sink or swim together. That’s our choice right now. When, when they, when I was there last night, somebody asked one of the people in the media tent, ‘What are the goals? What are you trying to accomplish?’ And he said, well, he said, ‘Our mission is in our name, Occupy Wall Street,’ and then he said, ‘Period.’ I thought about that for a second. Occupy Wall Street, period. In other words, it isn’t just about these encampments; it’s that we’re not stopping until we, the people, occupy our economy that runs this country! This is our economy! It’s our country! We’re the ones that have a say. And, and when somebody says to me, ‘Well,’ you know, ‘What’s the goal? What’s the end-game?’ And I say, ‘Well, let me tell you somethin’ first of all, we’ve already had a number of victories in our first six weeks. And let’s acknowledge those victories. Alright? Number one, number one, we have killed despair across the country. The despair that people were feeling, that despair is dissipating right now. This movement has killed apathy. People have got up off the sofa! They’ve turned off Dancing with the Stars! And gone out in the streets! This is a victory! There’s something very important we’ve done. Six weeks ago, what was all the media talking about? All the politicians in Washington? All the pundits? What was the, what was the national discussion that we weren’t part of that they determined? What were they talking about? The debt ceiling. The debt! The debt ceiling!! The deficit! We gotta reduce the deficit!! We gotta reduce the deficit!! Over and over and over all summer long! The debt ceiling! The deficit! The debt ceiling! The deficit! Can I ask you honestly? When’s the last time in the last few weeks you heard them talking about the debt ceiling? Or the deficit? When was the last time? This movement has shook down that bullshit discussion.”

    Crowd: “Yeah!! Whoo!!!”

    Michael Moore: “That is a huge victory. You have altered the national discussion. You have altered it! This is what people are talking about in every town, village, and city across America. Occupy Oakland!! Occupy New York!! Occupy San Francisco!! Occupy Grass Valley!! Occupy Walnut Creek!! Occupy Flint, Michigan!! Occupy everywhere!!! This is the discussion we’re gonna have!!! And we’re not ceding the discussion to anybody else!!!

    Crowd: “Yeah! Whoo!! [Applause]”

    Michael Moore: “So, in conclusion, in conclusion, um, I am—”

    Audience Member (male): “Move your seat!”

    Michael Moore: “—did you just yell at a disabled guy to move his cane?”

    Crowd: [Laughs]

    Michael Moore: “They told me there were plants here from the police. Plain-clothes, plain-clothes officer, let me just remind you, when you yell too loud at a disabled person, ‘Put down the cane,’ we know who you are. But welcome! Welcome! Because police officers, you’re part of the 99%, too! They’ll be coming after you! They’ll be coming after your home and your health care and your children. There’s a number or towns, there’s a number of towns across this country that are behaving differently than Oakland. There are police departments and police unions, hang on, there are police departments and police unions across the country supporting the Occupy movements in their towns. Albany, New York, a beautiful example, the Governor told them to remove the people and the police said, ‘We don’t consider that part of the police work.’”

    Crowd: “Yeah! Whoo!! [Applause]”

    Michael Moore: “So, the police do have a choice, even in Oakland. It’s still America, Oakland P.D. It’s a free country. You can join us. You can join us. You don’t have to join them. You don’t have to be here defending Wells Fargo and Bank of America and BP and everybody else! You can stand up for yourselves and everybody else! Alright. Um, so, please keep this alive here. I know there’s gonna be a lot of snow this winter.”

    Crowd: [Laughs]

    Audience Member (male): “Not here!”

    Michael Moore: “I wanna say one more thing about something I saw last week. Pete Seeger was, he had a concert, he did a concert up on the corner, it was he and Arlo and Tom Chapin and a few others. Um, he had a concert up at the corner of 95th and Broadway at Symphony Space in New York. And afterwards, they decided to march from Symphony Space down to Columbus Circle. That’s 36 blocks. Pete is 92 years old on, on two canes. On two canes he walked the entire way.”

    Crowd: [Applause]

    Michael Moore: “And when we got to Columbus Circle and he was leading everyone, thousands of people, singing ‘This Land is Your Land.’ And he looked over and there were two New York City policemen singing along.”

    Audience Member (male): “Fuck the police!”

    Michael Moore: “Um, right—[Michael Moore passes the microphone to man behind him: “There’s good and bad police just like there’s good and bad people.]

    Crowd: [Applause]

    Michael Moore: “We are stronger than any rubber bullet or bean bag or tear gas canister. There’s too many of us. And what are they defending in the first place? A broken system in a country that has benefited the few at the expense of the many. The time for that to end is right now. And when the history of—”

    Background: [A blast is heard in the distance, as Michael Moore flinches and turns around]

    Michael Moore: “—when the history—”

    Audience Member: “We’re from Oakland!”

    Michael Moore: “[Laughs] You know how sad it is? He says, ‘We’re from Oakland we’re used to that.’”

    Crowd: [Laughs]

    Michael Moore: “You shouldn’t be used to it. You know if you lived in any of the Weste-, other democracies, the one to the north of us, you know, you would never say a statement like that, ‘Oh, we’re used to that.’ You know, other people in other countries have decided to organise themselves differently. We can do that, too. And, don’t worry. For those of you who aren’t quite sure, who may just have stopped by to see this today and you’re wondering, ‘Yeah, but where’s this goin? I need to know more. I gotta figure this out.’ Don’t, don’t approach this like other movements from the past. Don’t approach it like a term paper. Um, just join in because the group itself, something will come out of this and it will be good. It will be good and generous to each other. So, everybody’s gotta come into this on some level. And we could make this happen. So, I just, the thing I want to say, before the, uh, sound effects truck, um, was that when the history of this movement, uh, is written about these first few weeks where—”

    Audience Member (male): “Or filmed.”

    Michael Moore: “No, it’s not going to fail.”

    Crowd: “No, filmed.”

    Michael Moore: “The what?”

    Audience Member (female): “Just let him talk.”

    Michael Moore: “What film? Oh, or filmed? Yes.”

    Crowd: [Laughs]

    Michael Moore: “Yeah. Are you making a film? No, I’m not making a film, no, no, no, no way. I’m not mak-, no, no, no. I’m sorry.”

    Crowd: “[Applause] Whoo!”

    Michael Moore: “I’m here as a citizen. By the way, haven’t I made those films? I was, uh—”

    Crowd: “Yeah! Whoo!! [Applause]”

    Michael Moore: “I’ll tell you what I’m happy about and I have been a bit giddy and overjoyed these past few weeks because at the end of my last film I was pretty dejected, uh, if you did happen to see it. And I, and I didn’t, and I said at the end of the film as I was wrappin’ the crime scene tape around the New York Stock Exchange, um, that, uh, I just, really, I don’t know if I could keep doing this. I don’t know if I wanna make another film ‘cos I keep making these films and it’s, you know, when’s this gonna happen? When’s this gonna happen? And I said at the end of the film, ‘Let me know, audience, or people, when you wanna, when you wanna do something and I’ll do it with you.’ Um because, um, it’s, uh, it’s a little rough being the poster boy on Rush Limbaugh or Fox News, uh, everyday. And they can get away with it when it’s just the Michael Moore or Naomi Klein or even a number of great people that have been busy on this issue for many years. Um, but when there are a million Naomi Kleins or ten million Michael Moores they won’t know what the eff to do.”

    Crowd: “Yeah! Whoo!! [Applause]”

    Michael Moore: “So, and that’s why they’re confused right now. So, when the history of this movement is written this week in Oakland, California will go down as a watershed moment. People, people across America were disgusted by what they saw here, when average Americans trying to stand up and peacefully assemble, to be brutally savaged and attacked by the police department that they pay for! That, that, let me tell you, the footage, you’re here. Okay? You’re here. We’re out there. We’ve been watching. Millions have watched it. And millions have been inspired by you because the next night you didn’t go away! You came back!!”

    Crowd: “Yay!! [Applause]”

    Michael Moore: “You came back!! You were supposed to go away!!! You were supposed to go away!!! What are you still doing here??!! And then you came back today!!! And you’ll be here tomorrow!!! And I’ll be with you!!! Thank you very much!!! Occupy Oakland, thank you!!!!

  • Paul
    I struggle with the issues you raise as well. I look at the stuff I did 40 years ago, and wonder if I didn’t peak back then. Over-thinking is a real danger. I wonder if I should just step away from this screen, stop looking at my books, and just live my life, and make a few snaps along the way to remind myself where I’ve been.


    you make some good points…as always…and you have some misunderstandings/twists as always…you say i say things i did not say, or tell me things you think i am thinking but i am not thinking and then proceed to correct me or suggest i look at it another way.. :) please Bob…. Burn has always always been for the audience and of the audience..the AUDIENCE however is not the COMMENTATORS..or shall i say, not only the while Burn is not MINE, it is not YOURS either….i did start it , set up the dialogue, hope to hell i made you feel at home, but surely the content is not mine (have you seen any essay of mine here?) and consists of exactly the proportion of icons and emerging photographers i said in the beginning it would have…

    just to set the record straight for those who care and i actually hope to hell nobody does…the recent departure of your always awaited commenting was based on a rather awkward “withdrawl” of an essay that nobody on the Burn staff even knew was in the mix ….YOU had told US that it was in the mix , but WE(me,us) never knew it was in the mix…so while Burn is not mine (ours) it still seems to us (me) odd that something could somehow be taken away that was not there in the first place…so a conflict started by you, participated only by you, and ended by you…a play with only one actor!!! draw the curtain!!

    after the play was over, that we did not know even started,it was pointed our that Diego and i were so far behind in this drama that we were just opening up the files and having a look at the script..meanwhile the play had ended over on stage left…surprise surprise…only pointing out once again Bob that we all need to keep our heads about us..and sometimes we all take ourselves way way too seriously…i will try to stop doing this if you do too…thanks

    the musing of Diego and i that led to this post only was a casual smiling that many of the really finer essays had very few comments…the exact opposite was our discussion from what you wrote…we were not literally counting comments as a measure of success…we were simply noting that the finer the essay the fewer the comments..not always true of course, but often true…but while noting the numbers , we were not measuring the success of the essay by it as i think you think we are thinking….and sometimes an essay in fact becomes the dialogue of the day by default for many reasons, and yes often because of author remarks or Panos on a rant!!

    nobody has been a more consistent and thoughtful commentator as you Bob…and i have said this many many times…maybe i should have said it many many many times…i don’t know…let’s just say you are appreciated for sure by many(many) and by me too…

    and i do hope you are smiling..for sure , i would not take the time to write now if i did not care…you have been a valued friend, not just a commentator without consequence…

    and we all now know it is impossible to eliminate the comment section as has been the fantasy of some staffers all along…too late…we have all become attached to this format..this forum…a wrangle here and wrangle there…great as far as i am concerned…whatever is going on with Occupy was going on with comments long before…Burn is democracy in action!! long live Burn!! (only been drinking water for days and days and no anything else either)

    smile Bob…playing …one of the real pleasures of this forum…

    good new things coming…new site…your essay will find its home at the proper time, in the proper way and with all of the power and artistic merit it deserves….thank you

    cheers, david


    yes, always just a matter of balance…and we all know your feelings…my suggestion is to think broadly….no need to sacrifice one thing for another…let it be symbiotic ..all of it…for example, personally and ironically while Burn has taken up a lot of my time where i theoretically could have been shooting, my photographic production in the last three years of editing Burn has been rather astounding…i have no idea how this is possible but it is, the part that has failed , or been slowed, is the finalization of this work but that is only because there is so much of it…this will be proven in 2012 when my last three years are going to suddenly explode…….and i must adjust..we must all always adjust..the course of our ship is never set for long..always always course adjustments…fine…Burn was born after i broke up with my girlfriend..Burn replaced a certain energy….Burn and shooting could never co-exist if i had a relationship going…my work, both editing and shooting could not BE if i were taking my wife out for a candle lit dinner…i am sure romance will come back at some point ..but not yet…now my energies are here and about to go deep deep deep with my upcoming shoot in Rio..the final shoot for this two and a half year essay….laughing sort of, but i really really really could not shoot what i am about to shoot in Rio if i had a girlfriend …she would kill me!! i gotta be free for this shoot…you will see what i mean soon …so enjoy Gordon…take a picture..write a comment ..think a bit..see new work..get worked up…all good …i promise you that someday this will all seem very very special…..for this too will someday be a book…just as we said in the beginning…so THIS is a part of it….so enjoy enjoy

    cheers, david

  • Well, this is some page, isn’t it? ;)

    In Toronto, the media thought many of tents were there for show only, as they seemed to be empty. What is going on in fact is that many of the Toronto occupationists work or go to school during the day, and then return in the evening to sleep. $40,000 has been collected as of two days ago, and only a grand spent. Here the protesters aren’t all carbuncled Bolsheviks or dread-locked teenagers with teapot cozies on their heads; it is a wide spectrum of socio-economic participants. Not neccesarily against capitalism, just against the excessive greed of the overly zealous.


  • Although I am a bit underwhelmed with what I shot at OWS during my trip to New York, I thought I would share some of it with you Burnians. The adventure and getting to meet and talk with so many of the people made the trip worthwhile.

  • a civilian-mass audience

    oh,well…can I sing now?

  • Hey Brian, you got some nice shots there. And it’s great the trip was worthwhile. Hopefully this thing represents some kind of tipping point and years down the road it will be increasingly interesting to be able to honestly say you were there at its inception, or close anyway.

    I’m curious what you think about the question of whether or not they should have a traditional political plank, even more so if you think a “they” actually exists. My take is that the minute they organize into a more traditional leader-led political hierarchy with concrete political positions is the minute they will cease to have any kind of effectiveness whatsoever. And of course plenty of people there advocate for specific political solutions every day. As anyone who looks at the photos can see, they actually line the sidewalk on Broadway with signs spelling out the policies they advocate.

    As one who’s been there quite a bit over the past four or five weeks and sat in on many of the evening organizing meetings, I find the struggle to get organized based on true democratic and leaderless principles the most interesting aspect of the thing. They are essentially engaged in an experiment to rediscover the wheel and are finding out how hard it is to get the thing to roll in a landscape littered with potholes. A good part of most meetings are filled with demands for tighter authoritarian control and I fear that’s going to be the main part of the lesson in the end. Of course they have to deal with the police and local government’s active efforts to undermine them. And the tried and true method of undermining revolutionary movements is to force them to become authoritarians. Plus, they are rapidly devolving into paranoia. Not giving their names. Not wanting to be photographed in fear the police will use the pics to identify them. They have a lot working against them. The only thing I see that they have working for them is the amorphous nature of the movement. Well, that and the fact that they are absolutely right. The 1 percent are out of control and fucking the world up for all of us and our descendents.

    Anyway, Brian, Erica, anyone else who spends time down there, I’m curious what you think of the “they” question. Is there a “they” there? Or is it more of a shapeless, ever shifting thing?

    And someday it would be interesting for all of us to get together and share stories and photos. Although I’ve continued spending time there, I haven’t photographed anything since the assignment. I caught what I caught of it at probably the most optimistic and happy time. Things look a lot different now.

  • JEFF..

    smiling…yes, indeed it is greed that i think folks are against…a better system cannot really be designed…i have been studying systems/designs since school days….i think our system ok…in theory…the machine is good..or potentially good, should be good… is just corrupted, rusty…..nobody seems to have a better “design”….the black side of human nature, unfortunately, trumps all designs…

  • MW..
    I agree with all u said..
    One reminder that makes OWS stronger!
    One little detail! It’s NOT about NY or zuccoti or Wall street Only anymore …
    Hundreds of cities all over America!!!
    I see it in Texas , everywhere in California
    .. See Denver arrests and most important is that
    OAKLAND CALIFORNIA is the REAL DEAL.. NY was just the beginning..
    Street was the symbolic place to be!
    Good news: NOT ANYMORE!!!
    Now OAKLAND is the place to be and hundreds cities and small towns..
    That’s the beauty about it! It spreads fast ..
    OCCUPY EVERYWHERE is the new “thing”.
    And nobody expected that! Did u see that in San Francisco they power radio with stationary bicycles..!!??
    What’s healthier than that!!???
    One love


    so so sorry we missed…and just by a bit…nice work here …you are so so close Brian …just wish i could get you to be a bit more nuanced…i can see you are just milliseconds and micro micro distances away from some really great work…you still lean towards being overly purely descriptive…fight it!!!

    you need to stop breathing when you are shooting…just concentrate the way you would if firing a gun…eyes like bullets…and loose loose at the same time…once you get THIS, then you can begin…

    no need for lots of pictures…just one…

    brain in full gear….yes yes this is photo j work , but you can do exactly the same thing from a journalistic standpoint but still be way way more PHOTOGRAPHIC..i know you can do it…we must talk by skype i think…as i said, you are very very close to having it…..good for you for even coming to new york..for feeling compelled to do this…pat on the back ….let’s talk please…

    cheers, david

  • mw-

    I agree with the “stay outside the system” stance of the group. I still struggle to think of a way this movement continues beyond a couple months, whether the protests persist or not. If a war in Iraq and Afghanistan can’t seem to hold out attention, how can this? Hope I am wrong.

    The group does have two things going for them. First, the leadership group is very, very smart. Second, the conversation has already been changed in many parts of the country, and especially in political leaders. The talks of cuts, cuts, cuts has been reshaped to jobs, jobs, jobs. Whether that leads to anything, I don’t know. The group needs to remain topical and relevant through the next election, and sponsor some serious get out and vote campaigns. With that, the OWS can have some serious, lasting results, My 2¢.

    DAH –

    Thanks. Yes, lets Skype sometime soon while this is fresh in my mind. I know I struggle to let go of my analytical self.

  • David, I find it intriguing to read that your Rio book and Rio Nat Geo article will be very different from each other: did you find yourself doing mental editing “This is for me, this is for NG” when shooting or is the difference solely down to editing. Obviously, NG approach any subject from a geographic perspective and this influences their choice of photographs.

    On a technical note; the DAH flesh coloured band aid over the flash head: this is to match the colour temperature of the ambient light typical of when using flash, right … wrong? I tried to buy the DAH band aid from B&H but it doesn’t seem to be listed.

    Hope Rio brings you all you want,


  • Brian, I think it could persist because pretty much everyone knows people who are adversely affected by it, even if they themselves are not. So hopefully the better comparison is with Vietnam.

    And Panos, you’re right. Not just NY and that’s no doubt a good thing.

    And for those who missed the published version of my take, here’s a slightly expanded version.

  • MIKE R

    good question..for the most part, the way i shoot on assignment for anyone is the way i would shoot on my own..i always figured they were hiring ME for a reason….and every photographer should think the same…those reasons do vary and DELIVERY still a major factor for any editor, but personality of approach is certainly the primary reason any top editor at a top magazine hires anyone in the first place..having said that, for sure on my own i would not hire a helicopter and should a picture of the Christ statue as i did for NatGeo..for one thing i could not afford $1500. per hour that NatGeo willing to pay for such a shot..i probably shot at least 5 hours worth at this price….their readers will expect this shot so worth every penny long term…..however, the folks who buy my Rio book will not be expecting this shot..ironically i might stick a version of it in there anyway, since i do own every single frame i took….my readers are going to expect something a bit sexier and they will get it….however, i think the primary difference between my book and the NatGeo Magazine piece will be in the edit…not the way i shoot nor even the subject matter…the NatGeo magazine will publish pretty close to the bone…but the book will have the bone….all fair enough i think…all good

    NatGeo readers are by definition way more conservative in what they want to see than will the audience for the book…conservative in what they want to see content wise and conservative visually as well…however, the reason i stuck with the NatGeo editors all these years is that they have always always tried to push their audience forward (and they have) without losing the audience totally by freaking them out with a shot from the dah hotel room!! at their peak NG had 40 million readers…not far off it even now…40 million people in 28 languages see my work in NatGeo….that is a hard number to comprehend…it does not add any value whatsoever to the actual picture, but it is a number to be reckoned with if communicating with an audience means anything at all…so everyone goes a bit conservative…and i can tell you that because of this somewhat conservative approach, NatGeo is welcomed all over the world by absolutely everyone…it is amazing really..even people who like other magazines better for creative reasons, will welcome at NatGeo photog into their humble tent or into their royal palace…everybody trusts NatGeo..and they should…

    all this said, if you want to see what i really really really do, check out next spring the book….and stay tuned to me this coming month…no holds barred…life on the edge…literally….i see Rio as a microcosm of some mythical EVERYWHERE…beauty, blood, passion, kindness, cruelty , death, life, sex, heat,depravity, all rolled into one Shakespearean photo essay…can i really do all of that? probably not, but that is the play i see here with Rio…could i go bust? could this be a disaster? absolutely…i am taking that chance….without taking that chance, i have no chance to do something great…staying safe is no way to do anything special…

    stay tuned…

    cheers, david

  • Seen better and better occupy photos lately. In the Michael/Pete slideshow link previously mentioned, I thought Michael’s #17 and Pete’s #35 came closest to the historical more meaningful work I keep looking for … and … I wonder/hope if the best work will come out after the headlines have faded because someone out there is living it, everyday, freezing in a tent somewhere, sleeping with their batteries or their 4×5, shuffling to the food line, hungry, cold, uncomfortable, questioning, confused, elated, depressed. Huh. Give me that assignment.

  • David, thanks, grest reply. 40 million viewers to your photographs is really something. Really something.

    As for the book; it will be mine: oh yes, it will be mine. Inspired here; I’ll be submitting a work in progress soon.


  • Tom, we’ll see, but I think it’s going to be very hard to get that one photo that defines the whole thing. There are so many parts to it and it constantly changes over time. More likely it will take an extended essay to adequately tell the story. Probably the work of many photographers. But you never know and the more that go for that defining pic or essay the better.

    I though Pete’s #41 came as close as any I’ve seen to being iconic. My #17 gets a few pieces of the Zucoatti experience, but would need Buffy to jump off the tourist bus and kick some financial vampire ass to even approach it.

  • I think the best photo I’ve seen of the OWS movement was the workshop one featured here on BURN. Pretty much has it all.

    I think it would be a most difficult subject, esp one to just parachute into. A bit like parade photography – a willing, colorful (maybe too colorful?) subject all laid out for the taking, but how do you find the subtleties that set it apart from all of the other thousands of photographs(ers)? I don’t think it’s by gear tricks, it’s probably by living and breathing it as Tom says. Personally I wouldn’t even give photographing the OWC a try – It would feel too faking it for me.

  • DAH,

    Funny, late last month I was looking into going down to Rio to shoot Pearl Jam’s concert there on the 6th of this month and then hang out. Would have been fun to meet up. Alas, my wife needs me here too much at the moment so had to scrap the plans. Have a a great shoot!



  • For those interested in apps and photography, there’s a MARIO GIACOMELLI one out there on iTunes:

  • The main problem with the majority of protest photos (in general) is just that is exactly what they are; typical protest photos that we’ve seen 1,000s of times before. I still think that protests are one of the hardest situations to shoot as the pics often end up just being a bunch of shots of people holding placards. Even the VII pics of the recent protests were pretty stereotypical “newsy” images.

    Here’s a link to a protest I shot a while ago; it went from about 10am-2pm. I have often thought about following up this shoot with a longer essay (of their life from their region); but can’t really afford the cost to drive back and forth. The protest did not welcome media (it was a VERY staunch affair); and to be honest I copped a fair bit of crap. But I went from being called a “pushy #%^%$^$” to “Bro; can we buy some photos”!

    The only way that changed was because I interacted with them face to face; not from across the road like all the other media (who would not get close). And afterwards went and thanked as many as I could and even gave the staunchest of them a traditional Maori hongi greeting/farewell (; which surprised them all.

    I’ve got some good contacts there now; and really think I could (eventually) get the sort of access needed; but like usual it all comes down to dollars; and having too many irons in the fire…. But I know it would be a strong story; and it would be controversial as most NZ’ers have VERY polarised views about Tuhoe…

    These are the pics I gave them; I didn’t think they were good enough to use on my website (even after editing them down to just a few).

  • Charles; “I think the best photo I’ve seen of the OWS movement was the workshop one featured here on BURN” I agree!

  • Charles and Ross, I agree that’s a very good photo. It’s well composed and technically excellent but it only illuminates a small part of the Zucotti park experience from several weeks ago. The reality captured in that photo no longer exists but the reality of the protests keeps moving along. It’s much different now. Much different in Zucotti; much, much different in 100’s of other places. That’s the challenge. It’s like trying photograph a cross country race while being stuck in Kansas.

  • ben roberts has documented the st. pauls encampment in london in his own understated way..

    the community spaces interested me most..

    also an audio slideshow on the london riots on BBC gives an insight to the photographers evening on the streets.

  • Paul – I remain in a pressure cooker, too much so to do more than rapidly skip and skim through, but I did catch your comment about feeling frustrated because you are always measuring yourself against others. Paul, you are doing good being Paul and have no need to measure yourself against others, but I am also certain your frustration is part of your creative process. It’s best to accept it – but not so much that you quit being frustrated altogether, because then you might lose your edge.

    Frustrating thought, huh?

    David Bowen – also caught the link you posted to St. Paul. Really liked it.

    DAH – Sometimes when I get frustrated or when I am cold and have been cold for a very long time and ice is in front, behind, and beneath me, I do fantasize about traveling far – but somehow, I never fantasize about going to Detroit.

    Yet, it could be the perfect place to meet. Except that Brazil would be even more perfect.

    Next week, things should settle down and I think I can finally blog about my loft experience.

    Should anyone be curious about one miserable side of life that at least one photographer (me) must go through to complete his work, my post today speaks of it. The 5 photos are all mundane, nothing to get excited about and there are a lot of words – up in the Bob Black/Akaky range – so don’t click unless you’ve got time to spare and are a bit bored, but here it is:

    Now – back to it. A good 20 hours straight or even more of photo-processing lies in front of me.

  • Dreamer’s deportation proceedings dropped

    DO U REMEMBER THE STORY that we worked in san Antonio with PAOLO PELLEGRIN (postcards of America???)
    Well the day I assisted Paolo it was about a young girl facing deportation!
    We gave great publicity to the subject and today they dropped the charges!
    Be a dreamer !!!!

  • Well,there’s a lot of interesting images that have illustrated the look of the different
    ‘Occupy’ locations but I have yet to see a picture that says, ‘THIS is an important movement’

    No one’s convinced me, yet.

    I’ve walked through the fairly sizable encampment outside the stock exchange in Montreal a few times and am
    only left with the images of people scurrying to attend to their basic needs,scrambling for electricity to
    power an amp for a musical interlude. or the ever present scent of hash.

  • “DO U REMEMBER THE STORY that we worked in san Antonio with PAOLO PELLEGRIN (postcards of America???)
    Well the day I assisted Paolo it was about a young girl facing deportation!
    We gave great publicity to the subject and today they dropped the charges!”

    Nice. Congrats to all involved.

    Now can you sort out that Greece thing :)

  • Pretty amazing Panos!

  • Congratulations, Panos – you are doing good work, as a photographer and a human being.

  • Yes yes publicity SOMETIMES works.. Not always!
    This time worked!! I’m very proud today .. A young girl out of jail!!!!!!
    I feel ecstatic… Except from some cool photos and crap like that we did something MAJOR!!!!
    We FREED A PERSON!!!! From the nails of the immigration!
    Viva photography !!
    I mean really WHAT ELSE CAN I ASK!??????
    (and yes yes, now time to FREE GREECE)
    Not easy but asked me if I believe in it!
    Be a dreamer !!!!!
    Stay true to your beliefs !!!
    “We shall overcome”

  • Btw! I’m flying in the 7th heaven right now!
    And like Civi I really need to stress this: I LOVE u ALL!!!!

  • DAH
    Thanks for your thoughts, and for the inspiration. I was having one of my “what the hell am I doing here” moments yesterday.
    I’m very excited for you and your up-coming trip. I can hear your excitement. Can’t wait to see what you come up with. Be careful when dancing along that edge.

    I’m evolving and emerging slowly. I will send you some portraits by the end of the year. I’ve been giving a lot of thought to what I will send.

    Thanks once again for burn.

  • Panos…

    I am honestly so pleased to see how much you are enjoying and living your lovely new way of life with Kim and Lola and how you’re out there doing your very best to help others. I remember thinking many many times about you when I was a silent Burn reader and how hard things were before, how you never ever gave up your dreams and were always giving your 110%!
    Big hug

  • where can i see Pete and Michael photos? somehow missed them…so far the best i have seen is from the workshop , but i have not seen all..anyway, if anyone can help me look at Pete and Michael much appreciated…sorry i missed..

  • I agree Andy’s workshop photo “Protest” is really good, and may even best represent the goings-on of the early days of the Wall Street occupation. But don’t forget it wasn’t a PJ shot, but one in which Andy was figuring out, and experimenting with the lessons of David’s flash workshop. This gets me thinking about how much is a photojournalist a photographer, or a journalist? Do they set out to capture a story, or a photograph? I know when I was at the Occupy Toronto march and campsite, I quickly gave up on trying to capture a story, and just took photographs for the sake of taking them. Or, more specifically, I was in that Winogrand mode of “photographing things in order to see how things would look photographed”. That was it, and nothing more. I was more concerned with trying – ok, learning – to work multiple planes and frames-within-frames into my shots, than I was in the STORY of the Occupation.

    I know that Chris Anderson studied cultural anthropology before entering photography; that is a reasonable background for photojournalism. But Pellegrin was a student of architecture…and now his work has immediate and practical results as we read above. David was a Fine Arts major – another logical background from which to jump into photography. Both Pellegrin and DAH have one foot in art, and I can understand their progression to photography, but I don’t see where the journalism half of the equation comes from.

    Larry Towell considers himself first and foremost a street photographer, but to me he seems the archetype for a PJ. All of this leads me to believe it is less the story, and more the ability to capture the image, that is the essence of photojournalism. That is to say, it is the photographs that makes the story, not the story making the photographs.

  • Gordon…

    Do not ponder on whether you peaked 40 years ago or not. That was then and this is now, we’re here right now! Time is ticking away! So it’s time to say goodbye to “maybe” and “I’ll try” and welcome the “I will” and if fate or chance doesn’t smile at you tomorrow, it doesn’t matter, you know deep inside you gave your all.
    Everyone has something outstanding about their life, just hold still and feel the electricity round you and it will appear. Maybe it’s time to listen to that voice which every so often whispers to us all reminding us of that damn truth we all know so very well and we’ve all learnt to somehow ignore.
    Keep in mind, that whatever shakes your tree, will woo your heart while others may see you as obsessed and lost. However there is little you can do, except follow the treasure map and just pray you never stumble upon it. Just remember, the rules of the Burn game state quite clearly, that it is not allowed under any circumstance to try attempt to tame that feeling. Let all be free while you’re on the edge of the cliff, out of your comfort zone sweating bullets, cursing away, although way down in your gut you’re really enjoying all this. Because the difference between success and failure is a blink of an eye. So just ride that summer storm and remember you’re not out to please everybody, because the outstanding work is both loved by some and misunderstood and hated by others. So sing only for yourself and all will be fine.

  • P.S.: I forgot to mention the recent news from Occupy Toronto. Joan Baez is re-writing Kum By Ah for the movement, and will be performing it tonight in Toronto. The Public Service Employee’s Union has donated $20,000 worth of Mongolian-type yurts (winterized tents) for those in the park, and the Mohawks have delivered firewood by the truckload in order to conduct fire ceremonies.

  • Jeff

    I cannot remember who said this, but he is a well-known photojournalist.

    “It is not about the you, it is not about the picture, it is about the story.”

  • PETE..

    went to your website now to see what you had done with Occupy, but cannot see anything..i was going fast..did i miss?

    HOWEVER, i did see a whole bunch of your work i had not seen before…you have some nice nice solid photo j in the best sense of it…my man , you have improved in the last couple of years…really..

    as frustrated as i get with you sometimes, you are doing nice work…good

    ready to roll with you on circus or the Hill..let me know

    ok, where is Occupy?

    cheers, david

  • Ok, here ya go. It’s difficult to see links as they are only a slightly different shade than regular text.

  • Jeff, it sounds like you are in danger of falling into the thinking too much trap. If you want to tell a story, tell a story. If you want to be a great storyteller, take great photographs to tell the story. If you don’t want to tell a story but just want to take photographs, do that. And take great photographs. And if you take an assignment, do right by your editor. If you can’t do that, don’t take the assignment. Where is the mystery in all this? It’s not in the intellectualizing. It’s in figuring out the story. And/or in figuring out the photograph. Preferably both. Who cares how anyone else arrived at being who they are? Your are on a different road to a different destination.

  • JEFF

    my undergrad is in art history,minor anthropology… my grad school was classic Univ of Missouri journalism…after grad school went to work for Rich Clarkson at the Topeka Capital Journal..Google him…then a grant from Va Museum of Fine Arts..but that is the formal stuff which barely matters because my mind was made up long before i went to college , long before high school………devoured books as a child….my first interest is in art for sure…but i also have a great interest in mass communication..loved Life, Look as a kid…as young teenager fell in love with the Magnum folks who seemed to work for magazines yet had the stuff on the walls of the Biblioteque Nacional…always always saw no conflict between art and journalism…believe in both…like fact, like fiction…believe both tell the “truth”…many ways to tell a story..

    cheers, david

  • MW

    exactly..very well said…

  • Or, one my favorites, “Just go make some good photos.”

  • And so, I dusted off the tent today.

  • Olsen was hit on the right side of the head, damaging the speech centre of the brain. Video footage showed a police officer throwing a non-lethal explosive near to a stricken Olsen as fellow protesters came to his aid.

    GO OAKLAND!!!!!!!


  • Oakland police criticise city’s mayor
    Police officers’ association have criticised the city’s administration in an open letter to Oakland’s citizens


    (moral of the story: not all cops are against US! what a change!!!!!!!!)

  • Paul…laughing. Thanks so much for the upwards and onwards message. Actually, I’m as always having a good time, and loving my life. I just like to do a little whining now and then.
    Went for a great walk monday with the dog. Lovin’ my little fuji.

  • Occupy Oakland: police to be investigated over Scott Olsen injury
    Citizens’ Police Review Board to launch formal investigation as Oakland prepares for general strike on Wednesday

  • Nice image Gordon
    The x100 is pretty impressive
    Higher iso’s easily smokes my GF-1 but there is movement on the GF front

    Fuji also has something that’s to be announced early in 2012 that should blow everyone’s mind who’s interested
    in shooting compacts with high quality


    I have to admit the 100% version of that shot is very impressive, especially considering it is a 2/3″ sensor at 3200 ISO. The previous shot however, a low-light interior, while at lower ISO (2500 I think?) shows quite a bit of not only luminance noise but fairly obvious banding in the shadow areas. Still, that is a lot better than many APS-C sized sensors in DSLR’s can do. I understand that the soon-to-be-available Fuji X10 has the same sensor. I have been eagerly awaiting its arrival as its manual zoom lens and lower price are more in keeping with my needs.

  • OOPS!

    I am completely wrong about the Fuji’s sensor… the one in your Fuji X100 IS APS-C sized, which goes some way to explaining the impressive image quality. The X10 has a smaller sensor, and however well the EXR technology works, I doubt it will produce results like that shot you posted. Still, I will probably buy one when I get the chance.

  • ANNIE LEIBOVITZ.. Pilgrimage

    I don’t know much about her, except that she photographs famous people (something I’m not very much interested in) and about her financial struggles a while back.. but I found the above article interesting, something that one can translate also to the non-famous world..

  • Eva, Google “annie leibovitz rolling stones tour’ to see some of her early, pj work. Her father was (from memory) in the U.S. airforce and the family travelled a lot. She picked up a camera early in life. The legend goes that she took a photo of someone (can’t remember who) in California; showed it to someone and next day she was on a plane to New York to photograph John lennon for Rolling Stone Magazine. Sorry the story is sketchy. I really rate her early work.


    “Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany, President Nicolas Sarkozy of France and others are now rushing to blame the Greeks for the summit package’s rapid unraveling. They need to take their own full share of responsibility for this crisis — and finally fix it.”

    From NYTimes today!
    (thank you)

  • Greece on the Brink

    We are no fans of political referenda, with their simplistic yes or no answers to complicated policy questions. But we understand the dire circumstances that led Prime Minister George Papandreou of Greece to suddenly call for a national referendum in December or January on the terms of the latest European bailout plan.

    As risky as the move is — for Greece, the European Union and the global recovery — Mr. Papandreou has decided he needs a mandate to press forward with the difficult reforms, and too onerous austerity, that is Europe’s price for keeping Greece solvent.

    At this point, it is not even certain that his government will survive this week’s parliamentary vote of confidence. Athens has enough cash to pay its bills through mid-December. But, if that passes without a new agreement being finalized, it is hard to see how an extremely disruptive default can be avoided or contained. Italy’s lenders, in particular, will demand risk premiums higher than Italy can afford.

    Bailing out an economy as large as Italy could bring down the euro. Not bailing it out could bring down European banks and some American financial firms as well. The hit on the global economy would be enormous. At this week’s summit meeting of the Group of 20 advanced and emerging economies, every leader should be pressing the Europeans to do everything they can to head that off.

    Europe’s leaders should have paid more attention to the distress of ordinary Greeks and less to the distress of well-heeled European bankers. Rather than trying to punish the “profligate,” they should have thought about the consequences of condemning Greece to years of negative growth, soaring unemployment and rising taxes with nothing promised in return except that maybe, a decade from now, its ratio of debt to gross domestic product might get back down to the problematic levels of 2008-9.

  • I’m finding I like the Fuji x-100 quite a lot as well. I shot the OWS thing with it exclusively, though I used its built-in flash instead of super high iso. The thing I like best about it though is that the capture quality is high enough that the photos can blend with ones taken with the 5d. I did another project with the same look immediately after in which I used both cameras and it’s hard to tell which photo came from which camera.

  • “Europe’s leaders should have paid more attention to the distress of ordinary Greeks and less to the distress of well-heeled European bankers. ”

    (shoulda, coulda,woulda… Obviously Sarkozy/Merkel could give a rats ass for the citizens of greece … Nahhh !!! Banks comes first in their agenda! Occupy Europe
    Sounds more necessary than occupy wall street at this point)

  • Panos, the problem should have been addressed in August – but everyone in government was on vacation.

    As for the bankers, here in the u.k. we get told that tighter financial legislation might mean that the banking industry would abandon London for other shores. You promise?

    The attitude of the banks reminds me of the quote from a James Bond film .. “Secret agent! On whoose side?”.

  • When I photograph I get involved!
    I participate! I become part of it! I’m IT..
    I’m not the Fly on the Wall! (sorry HCB)
    I’m not shooting the blood on the sidewalk..
    I Am the Sidewalk..

    Somebody said:” it’s not about you but about your subject”
    I AM THE SUBJECT (and yes it’s still NOT about me (photographer)..
    I’d rather be honest my friend(s) than a coward behind a camera pretending I’m the 3rd eye.
    The journalist, the Truth Recorder, the Fly on the Wall!
    I hate flies/spies..
    I am the wall!
    That’s why I LOVE DAH/D’Agata…. because they Don’t HIDE from their “subjects”
    They BECOME their subjects.
    Ultimate respect!!!!

  • Mike R!
    Of course I agree with you!!!
    Good morning all from LAND OF THE GREED (aka Americanlandia)
    6am over here

  • “Somebody said:” it’s not about you but about your subject”
    I AM THE SUBJECT (and yes it’s still NOT about me (photographer)..
    I’d rather be honest my friend(s) than a coward behind a camera pretending I’m the 3rd eye.
    The journalist, the Truth Recorder, the Fly on the Wall!
    I hate flies/spies..
    I am the wall!
    That’s why I LOVE DAH/D’Agata…. because they Don’t HIDE from their “subjects””

    Whatever that means.

    And just for the record, nobody was talking about “hiding” behind a camera or being a fly on the wall.

  • Pete , nothing personal..
    It’s just our directions / philosophies are the exact opposite..
    When I’m in the north pole you’re in the south!(and vice versa)
    When it’s day for you it’s obviously night for me!
    We just simply disagree in all and everything !
    And that’s what what makes your voice important here..
    It’s funny how it works! You know exactly what I think ..
    It’s simple: whatever your philosophy is just REVERSE it and you’ll find mine..
    (and let me make joke so we both lighten up: don’t they say that opposites attract each other ???
    Smiling smiling , you and me proved this theory wrong,right?)
    That’s democracy , The night and day co-exist!

  • Bottom line : we both agree on one thing:
    big hug bro!

  • And for the history: “the coward behind the camera” comment was NOT directed at you,
    or any BURNIAN in particular !
    And I agree with DAH.. Checking your website I see dramatic improvement..
    (see how much I love u that I direct / suggest everyone to check u out! Raising the google analytics stats..not that u need me to do that, but u can’t hate me for that either, right?)
    big hug

  • Panos it may be time to forget the fly and become the flea on the dog

  • Banks only lend umbrellas when the sun is shining.

  • I’ll probably dig my own grave saying this but I can’t wait to see Greece telling the Euro to fuck off like all the rest of the poor European countries should be doing.

  • “That’s democracy , The night and day co-exist!”

    I am on Capitol Hill almost every day… trust me they don’t co-exist that well.

  • I’ll probably dig my own grave saying this but I can’t wait to see Greece telling the Euro to fuck off like all the rest of the poor European countries should be doing.

    same here!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • looooooooool!!!!!!!!!!

    i love love the “new” canon F4!!!!!

  • “The Rich get richer and the Poor stay poor”
    Leonard Cohen

  • PANOS,

    There has never been the slightest doubt in my mind that, as far as you are concerned, you are IT, you ARE THE SUBJECT.

  • Sidney , thank u! im flattered…

    tonight its the last day in Burn-ed Garden (gallery in SA )
    This weekend i will have most probably all answers about what, who sold what, when which, blah blah etc..
    i will notify each and every seller (privately)
    hopefully beginning next week i will post a list with names of the lucky ones that sold , and my conclusions from that “experiment”..I mean i will share details and everything i think i learned from that experience..
    moneywise i will contack as i wrote above each photog personally and Privately and we will “go from there” u all remember deal was %30 gallery , %35 goes to photog, %35 donated to Burn..i will also give the photogs the gallery info and they can call and verify the “numbers” ..All clean, pure and crystal clear..
    ps : (the few prints that was presold on Burn prior to exhibition , Like “NIRVANA” from CP, K,Lee, etc, will not share that %30 with the gallery…It would not be fair since those few prints were sold here, prior to the exhibition)
    thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • names of the lucky ones that sold
    what i mean by “lucky” is not an insult or anything..Great Prints were sold and some of the GREAT GREAT PRINTS DID NOT!…for many reasons like audience, demographics, blah blah u name it!
    Unfortunately in Art World its not the “best” that always “wins”
    (personal example, i sold Beyonce’s portrait – one of the most boring photos i ever shot in my life – and almost gave one of my favorite Venice prints, pretty much for free to a student that could not really afford the full not complaining, id rather have my venice print in poor students apartment that i know at least he will cherish/love it and swallow my pride! but yes its a PARADOX: my most BORING print sold asap, and my favorite print didnt! see what i mean?????
    go figure!???

  • Panos..

    THANK YOU!!!

  • It’s so wonderful and interesting for me to read everyone’s thoughts on the Occupy photos that are coming out. I agree that it is without a doubt an incredible challenge to create something – I don’t even know which word I should use – authored, personal, real, worthy, representative, engaging, lasting – from the movement. The urge to follow the arc and try to give something of an overview is understandable and hard to ignore, and threatens to dominate in the face of the difficulty of showing something more focused/personal. My attempt is to try to do both, rendering me at least eligible for Tom Hyde’s “hungry, cold, uncomfortable, questioning, confused, elated, depressed” status. I feel like all I do is charge batteries and wash clothes. It’s the catch 22 that a high level of commitment/immersion might actually be detrimental to the visual essay.

    so…I have 2 essays going, one more wide in scope which I really need to edit and put out there – and another, which I want to go deeper into but which has some serious roadblocks for a handful of reasons, both for shooting further and for showing publicly at this moment. Tensions are rising in the park (see and also to some degree toward photographers, and I don’t want to add to them nor be caught in the middle of them. Though the movement is sure to continue, my sense is that the encampment’s presence may not, for much longer.

    mw no, I don’t think there is one ‘they’ – for sure I can think of 3 ‘factions’ right away – though I’d say there is a majority with a something of a cohesive voice.

    On a lighter note, after I photographed the OWS at the Village Halloween Parade, I had some fun and photographed the parade’s spectators:

  • Erica –

    I know your focused idea is spot on and is going to be one of those sets that engrosses viewers, now and in the future. I can’t wait to see more than what I saw in NY. Stay with it.

  • ERICA,

    Great Halloween party! Thanks for posting those photos.

  • Thanks Brian – I hope so, but the proof is in the pudding :)

    Sidney – absolutely – and thank you – I wish I had had more time there, but aside from a few angry people who didn’t appreciate being taken by surprise, it was great fun. I felt very naughty.


    Was reading this Mick Jones interview today:, and this quote made me think of your prior conversation:

    “I honestly think the best thing I’m going to do is around the corner—I always look to the future. I don’t like to go on too much about the past, even though I know I’ve been going on about it. Honestly, I think, the best thing—I haven’t done it yet. I’m looking forward to it.”

  • @ PANOS:
    Thanks a lot, waiting your report for that experience. Spread that info. Share with the 99%… I’m with every Grecoland citizen! Rebelion is in the masses, as George Orwell said in that wonderful book called “1984”. He was absolutely right, the only mistake was the year… Wonder if every politician in the G20 have read it?


  • Erica, so you’ve been living it to some extent? I get you. I just don’t know if its possible to create something truly … hmmm, word?, lyrical, more than just news … out of all this but it most certainly has become “historical,” although whether a footnote or a fulcrum of course won’t be known for some time. The gen-x newspaper cynic in me suspects the former while a large part of me hopes for the latter. So next week I’m going to go live it for a time myself locally, in my extended backyard, and whether that turns out as something meaningful or just a self-assigned workshop in field multimedia work I don’t know but I figured I should get out of my comfortable armchair regardless. I appreciated Martin Parr’s words in the recent interview posted here about becoming more of a “community photographer”. While I’m not clear as to all the nuances of his meaning there, it would appear I’ve already been heading in that direction. I can certanly provide a record for my own local community. And since Sydney keeps telling me to combine my writing with my photography in a more meaningful way, I thought I would give that a shot as well and see how truly schizophrenic I can be serving all those masters at once. It’s been awhile since I truly journaled. I’ll certainly havehas the time. An interesting footnote is that the occupy site I’ll be occupying was once a true Hooverville, now part of the state capitol campus. Historical circles it would seem. Okay, TMI.

    Good luck on your own interpretation, I know you will make it your own. Don’t jump to show it soon :))

  • that should read “too soon.”

  • So many Burn photographers covering the Occupy movement. perhaps a joint essay would be worthwhile?

  • Mike..

    thanks for the info about Annie Leibovitz, will google her and educate myself…

  • Panos wrote,
    “but yes its a PARADOX: my most BORING print sold asap, and my favorite print didnt! see what i mean?????”

    Your statement is a pretty good summary of Western media. No ?

    There’s way more people wanting to catch a glimpse of Janet Jackson’s nipple than there are those interested
    in, say, Libya.

  • @ ALL: “Keep it discreet, compact cameras”

    This was posted on FB, for those who did not read, here is the link to PDN on line:

    And I also read this quote: “A career champagne with a beer salary” don’t remember the origin, but so funny and true!


  • Without a true leader, one who pulls everyone together with an inspiring message this whole occupy movement campaign will be a lovely toast to the sky. The big cheese, those who have screwed or about to screw soon or later the middle and lower class into absolute abject poverty will not feel worried or uncomfortable with people spending the night at a local park protesting. The big cheese couldn’t give a flying fuck what all of us are accusing them of, they are holding the boiling frying pan by the handle and they are not in danger of being fried.
    Now I must admit, I truly hope I’m proved utterly wrong.

  • Justin…

    Where you’ve been? :))

    “I honestly think the best thing I’m going to do is around the corner—I always look to the future.

    Yes absolutely! It’s exactly the same reason I also love Fridays.

  • Patricio, I recall Tom Stoddart saying he was told that at the beginning of his career.

    Eva, no worries.


  • AKAKY: I wonder why the pic of the Brazilian girl didn’t sell?

    AKAKY IRL: Maybe everyone in Austin is gay?

    AKAKY: I doubt it. It’s Texas, after all.

    AKAKY IRL: That’s true. Maybe they’re blind.

    AKAKY: That could be,

  • Akaky , All..

    i think i have some good news…for another show over here in an “alternative ” gallery that will not charge us the 30%..
    i already have people confirmed they wanna buy especially right when xmas bonus arrive..
    stay tuned!
    im afraid we are not done
    onle stage/phase 1 done this weekend!
    i have a feeling that i will sell the rest by xmas!
    no bull!
    no promises
    but we will try
    stay tuned please!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Your statement is a pretty good summary of Western media. No ?

    Mark ..yes yes absolutely true…

  • Tom – your Occupy plans sound perfect. Looking forward to hearing your experience, seeing the outcome.

    To say I have been living it may be an overstatement compared to those who truly Occupy, as I don’t sleep there, face those challenges that come with total commitment or have to deal with being the subject of intrigue. As far as I can tell, there is a real patchwork or degrees of ‘living it’ at OWS. I know 2 who have been there from day 1 who sleep there and are there at all times, but don’t march or participate in the GA – and another 3 who have slept there from day 5 who do the same. There are many organizer types who are there almost daily, though not all of them sleep at the park, but there must be some who do. Others come and go, have lives to attend to, others come for 2 or 3 days and then return home. For me, it is pretty much my 2nd life these days, but it cannot be my first. Whether or not it translates visually, I do feel I have a special perspective on a percentage of the place/people, and count the experience as personally meaningful. Last night I was entering into a convo about my photographic presence w someone who was being a bit protective about the park/people, when a tent unzipped, a man leaned out and said – that’s Erica, she’s my friend, leave her alone :)

  • Mike R – The idea of a joint Occupy story is interesting, but I think most powerful would be if someone dedicated a week’s space to it – 7 essays by 7 different photographers, one a day.

  • I don’t know. When I saw the empty living space essay from London it occurred to me that this thing has probably jumped the shark. What next? Toenails?

    Though I do very much look forward to seeing what you produce, Erica. Don’t know if the faction thing is what you’re after, or if it’s something that can be communicated visually without editorial content, but I’m pretty sure that nailing that would be far and away the most interesting perspective I will have seen on Zucotti. Otherwise, I fear mostly what we have to look forward to is violence. Police perpetrated here in New York. Who knows what all elsewhere?

  • Funny mw – I loved Ben Roberts work on London Occupy. If you didn’t like that work you may not take to my narrow story either, though I’ll still have a shot to make you happy with the more general one. Can’t, or wouldn’t, shoot the factions, they aren’t distinct outwardly, rather this is my personal gleaning from conversations and to delineate might be unfair.

  • Ha, well, I trust you won’t worry to much about what I might think. Nor should you since I’ll probably think something else tomorrow. I’m not opposed to narrow perspectives, or any other possible approach for that matter. I’m kind of intrigued by the idea that perhaps we can learn more about people by how they arrange their private spaces and applying that to the OWS protesters certainly has interesting possibilities. Today though, it just seems to me that that kind of thing, and certainly the London thing which obviously hadn’t been there that long, would be stronger with far fewer photos. A triptych might be nice. I’d love to see a killer single. Just imagine what Jeff Wall could do with that concept.

    Anyway, that’s an interesting visual difference between Zucotti and the other places I see in photos. Zucotti, visually, looks so much more lived in.

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