viva freedom….


Oaxaca 2010

this was originally a comment i posted about the value of comments on Burn…i decided to post it here since i think it is important as we start looking at a re-design of Burn for 2011…what does the picture above have to do with it? absolutely nothing…

6:24 am Edit


i need a little feedback please…stick with this one for a minute por favor…and i am listening , so please speak up …

i start with the usual clarification as happens here so often…comments will ALWAYS be open under essays …NEVER was any intent to drop them there…..the comments under essays have been very good for a very long time..whether or not we go back to the one comment per person “rule” set up successfully by Jim Powers will depend on the feedback you give me now…our frustration from me and my Burn colleagues with comments was not about what was being said or how it was being said or by whom was saying it under the pictures presented…we present essays etc to be discussed…that IS the whole point of Burn after all…

we just wanted to move the natural ramble and chat conversations (of which i also have been a part) which evolve quickly on Dialogue to some other place…off the front page ..into another room…a room where you can drink beer and smoke cigarettes (or whatever) and then come back into the auditorium for a respectful showing of work…or, perhaps you can explain why this is not a good idea…i am all ears…

after all this is how i run my loft showings at home and where Burn was born in the first place…so simple really…yes, this is my home and i am your host…..but for heavens sake, has anybody here ever been home with me? did you have a good time? did we look at pictures and have some fun too?


ever seen me shy away from a good time?? those that know me are well aware that i bust ass to make the party…but there is also a RESPECTFUL SHOWING OF WORK both by iconics as Bruce Davidson in my loft this year, followed by respectful showing of the student work, followed by the party…

i just want to set up THAT kind of environment on the net as much as possible…fair enough?? please remember that it is essentially YOUR WORK that i want respected…

now since good things do get said at a scrambled social event,  we do not want to lose that either…so how about if we go to the forum concept? that way we can have multiple threads and  the priceless good things that do get written will be at least on topic and can be researched/searched later…now as it is i might answer a question from Jason in dialogue and actually it could relate to many people later, but they have no idea it was even written…sort of a waste of a resource wouldn’t you say?? whereas if a forum TOPIC:  “How Do I Get a Job After College?” or “Lighting Dark Bars”  just might be useful information for many later on and coming from many of us…

i am sure there is something wrong with the forum concept …i am not sure for i have never used one….many of you could volunteer to manage particular topics that could go on for a long time and be properly archived…and with it we can also have the “bulletin board” “smoking room” or whatever you want to call it…but have all of this one click off the front page…

doesn’t this seem like the fairest way to keep Burn a quality magazine and live up to all that it now stands for in our international photo community and still have a place to arm wrestle a bit?

abrazos, david

no02Illustration by Imants Krumins

111 Responses to “viva freedom….”

  • First, why didn’t you think of this earlier? And scare the heck out of us instead with the ‘no comments’ thing?? .. just kidding..

    Sounds easy enough and seems worth a try.. for sure there might be wrong something with it, but there always will be, so why not?

    Second.. where’s the picture for this thread?? Uff..

  • EVA…

    did this spontaneous..looking for a picture to run now…yes, simple..all good ideas are simple and obvious and therefore hard to see right off

  • I am sure most will be happy with the changes in that direction. My opinion…………………….. the “far right wing” wags it’s tail and rips out the soul.


    in all my world travels visiting countries with TOTALITARIANISM in place from either the far right or the far left and i can assure you the soul is ripped out in both extremes…they both use the SAME TECHNIQUES…i cannot imagine how a bit of structure in a photo magazine can qualify as “far right wing” since the reasons for the structure are to allow chaos and yet still move forward ….particularly since i am a socialist at heart hence Burn in the first place and hence you as a valued contributor artist……….YOU my friend do not live in chaos….you are an artist using stonemasonry, brilliant with photoshop and graphic design..order, order, order….and i doubt if you were presenting work in my loft you would want folks spilling beer on your prints…ahhh well, maybe you which case amigo it would be done!!!

  • I like the idea of discussion groups. If you make your discussion group open and free that would be a great idea. I think that idea works best when you have curated comments for showing burn features.

    Like showings in your loft, not every street person is allowed up to make quips or pine away at what they were never invited to in the first place. Open discussions here lead to many distracting and negative (unhelpful) feedback. It’s like someone sprayed graffiti in your beautiful showroom, totally wrecking your well thought out work with recklessness comments and thoughts. In a curated system only people you invite are allowed to make comments. Right off the bat I can think of a pretty large group of people:
    you, your colleges, your friends, students, former burn publishers, etc.

    Comments from this group have far more value here, for me even, than mine or anyone else. …Just my opinion. I am glad you are thinking about this… As always, we all do love what you are doing here.

  • THE MISSING PICTURE IS HERE >>>>>>>>>>> (photo to come..dah)

  • IMANTS..

    love the picture!! tried to drag it to my desktop to no gotta go see doc..can you email to me please?..will publish as soon as i return….i will delete here , so we can publish up front..ok?

  • David,

    that sounds really good to me. A forum has several advantages, you can have multiple threads, you could (to re-enable the one-comment paradigm), have the further discussion on work/eassys in a thread.
    My hope is that it becomes so much easier to find good stuff, which was said once. (Which currently is nearly impossible)
    May I also wish something? I would like to have the possibility to favourite articles in a thread. Or to somehow bookmark them. – Makes finding even easier.

    I like the idea as you describe it very much!


  • David I sent them (3 versions) via under Imants
    ……. plus the clean version is on the link for now

  • DAH,

    Thank you for considering creating a forum for Burn – I really think that it will prove beneficial for all.


    I think that vBulletin, Simple Machines Forum, and probably many others allows users to subscribe to a thread and receive notification of new replies. vBulletin (I think) allows the user to quickly access a list of these threads, so that you could, in effect, use this feature to bookmark them.

  • VIVA!!!!!
    great shots dah and imants…..

  • YES YES a thousand times YES! I’ve wondered for a long time how anyone can read the comments here. Hopefully the forums put a little structure to the madness (and also make it possible to look at the work without looking at the comments). I gave up looking at the comments here a long time ago because they were so impossible to follow, not least because the comments can move so quickly. Dialog is good, but I just can’t make sense of any of it the way it is now.

  • A forum is definitively worth a try!

    A lot of wonderful information buried in this blog. Like sea shells … very hard to retrieve after several waves of comments roll over it.

  • Was ist “webenfreude”?

    I remember in my teenage years partying to the wee hours in my best friend’s parents’ basement. When most of the guests had left, and just the stragglers remained, my friend’s father would come downstairs, stand in the middle of the rec room, and begin singing the national anthem. It was his firm yet gentle way of saying the party was over, the channel was going off air. We got the hint.

    It would be unfortunate to limit discussions to the one comment experiment of recent past – it would weaken the dialogue which often happens on Burn. Still, sometimes when the family comments – and the family comments on family comments – overtake the discussion below essays, we sort of wish someone’s father would start signing. It would be equally unfortunate to continue the squabbling format of a family dinner with the least self-disciplined siblings overtaking the attention due and deserved toward the guest of honour.

    Given that the current proposals under discussion are either a) leave everything as they are or b) limit dialogue discussion to one person/one comment, is there any chance of a middle road method of self-regulation? An off-site continuation of non-essay comments is great, but how do the comments get there? Would they be self-directed, directed by the editors, driven there by the readership? How about a “Send to Family Comments” button? Much softer in tone than a complaint button, and would no doubt comfort those inventor of words – and experts in prejudicing ideas propaganda-style – who fear the right-wing totalitarian word police.


    very well said! (hört, hört!)

    I think a good compromise could be to have a single comment per person below the essay/picture.
    additionally to have a section comments with a thread named like the essay where further discussion happens. does this make sense?

  • Are family-type comments really posted that often under essays? Doesn’t seem to me, much more under the dialogue posts..

    The more rules there are the more they can be broken.. wouldn’t a simple reminder that comments under essays should be pertinent to the essay be enough?

  • The picture above, Oaxaca, has a very heavy feeling.. thanks for posting both..

  • a civilian-mass audience

    When in Rome do as the Romans do…

    I have walked in a Forum before…the MAGNUM Forum…
    Forum one…fora two…
    We will find our way through…

    It seems to me…today someone squeezed his brain …really hard…:)))

  • JEFF…

    we do not have to do just one comment per person under essays…it is just a thought and was employed for awhile…i probably would be inclined to leave it open as it is now, at least long enough to see how it goes…people get very confused when thinking about comment restriction….it is NOT about what is said regarding the can blast the hell out of the pictures, me , Burn , whatever…we are only trying to eliminate non-relevant to the story discussion…that is all…


    you lost me on this one…what Magnum forum?


    tell me why? what have you lost? or what will you lose? the point of this feedback is so that i may know your feeling…otherwise how can i make a good decision?

    you are my earliest person on Road Trips…i valued your opinion then, and i value it tell me , tell me

    cheers, david

  • I do not know of any online forum that isn’t just like this. It can be lofty commentary, it can be infantile commentary, but there will always be little dust-ups and insults and implied insults and misinterpreted comments that really weren’t insults… and there will always be comments that veer off topic and brilliant comments that get buried under piles of inanity… If someone knows of a forum or blog that allows comments that avoids all this significantly better than Burn does, I’d like to see it.

    It’s the nature of the intertubes. This is how it goes when trying to communicate solely through black & white text from a keyboard. It’s not perfect–but it ain’t all that bad either. I see no reason to change anything. However, if there is a change I’m sure everyone will embrace it and hope for the best… (and continue to start non-relevant to the story commentary!) ;^}

  • Jeff want to be the singing father with a ” I shall release thee” button ………………………

  • Good idea, and the forum or whatever it gets called can still (sometimes) be a place for photographic discussion. Often an essay is posted here and it creates a discussion that is not necessarily about the essay per se but more about e.g. an idea or technique that the essay has generated. So the comments under an essay take on a life of their own and it is sometimes difficult to explore the idea without seeming to detract from the work of the essayist.

    DAH, good photo and good use of flash. You are so good at it that I usually don’t even notice that you have used it. With regard to Tortilla chip filters; do you use different flavours depending on the light?
    That was not serious.

    Imants, I love that photograph!


  • The change will probably help the quiet times when people run out of steam and some are at odds what to post.

  • MIKE R…

    actually used one of those yellow flowers you see off to the left for a filter …just a small small tweak…there is always something around…and a man standing there with a flower in one hand and a camera in the other does not seem to be a threat i assume…

  • IMANTS..

    i was imagining more comments since there would be more threads…the new design will certainly allow more stories and easier access to the archive of stories we have which are now very hard to access…i would imagine fewer quiet times than now…but, i could be wrong…that is why i am looking for feedback which will point out the real pitfalls of a forum…i honestly do not know…

  • I like the addition of a forum idea, and then the rest of Burn staying the way it is. I am not sure about the issue of comments…there was a time where I thought the one comment per person was better, because it was more tame and a bit healthier but then I think part of what makes Burn different from the other sites is the freedom of expression, opinions and discussions about the work. I guess you would still need to moderate it though if you wanted to remind people to stay on topic.


    thanks for that…the exact kind of feedback i needed to hear…but, isn’t the topic situation on the forums easier to archive??


    i keep saying this, but somehow not making myself clear …THE COMMENTS UNDER THE ESSAYS OR WORKS IN PROGRESS WILL BE THE SAME AS ALWAYS…we just need a place for the bulletin board chat, or ramble IF that is even possible..Michael Kircher thinks it is not..interesting

  • The photo was taken during a rendition of the old Angels song …………
    “When The Angels were a pub band their song “Am I Ever Gonna See Your Face Again” has received an iconic response from audiences. Whenever Doc Neeson sang the words of the Angels’ classic love song ‘Am I Ever Going to See Your Face Again?’ back came the ingenious response: ‘No way, get fucked, fuck off’.

    Whilst outside Australia this may have been seen as a negative response, from an Australian audience and in the context of the Australian sense of humour this was recognised as high praise.”( Wikipedeas quote)

    The boys are older now yet the iconic lyrics find a new audience

  • My two-cents worth…. (and that’s probably over-rating it!)

    To me; the free-wheeling, organic inspired dialogue is one of Burn’s most important features. One topic dissolves or evolves into another and I think inspires the more interesting comments. But, it can be a bit like holding a tiger by its tail (for David, Anton etc)

    I do agree that comments under essays should keep to discussing the essay. Anyone wanting to comment on a topic that an essay has brought up (but not really about the essay) then the poster just posts in the Dialogue section instead.

    I don’t think that the comments are that difficult to follow now. The days of 6 or more pages of posts seem to be over. Now there’s usually about 2 pages per day, not difficult to follow. Any posts that I feel I may want in the future; I just copy and paste to a Word document, very easy to find.

    It’d be worth giving the traditional forum style a crack to see if it works, however I do feel the formality would stifle a lot of the creative thinking. For technical posts that would make posts easy to find

    But I’m no net expert, so am really just thinking out loud (for what it’s worth!) :-)

    David; Regarding the essay exclusivity period. I think a one-month period is very photographer friendly and also gives Burn a fair bite of the cherry too. I’m probably a boring old fart; but I think that loyalty should be repaid with loyalty. If Burn is going to publish work (and be loyal to photographers); then it is only fair to re-pay Burn in kind.

  • but, isn’t the topic situation on the forums easier to archive

    we just need a place for the bulletin board chat, or ramble IF that is even possible..Michael Kircher thinks it is not..interesting


    Yes, I can see the want of better archiving. I also think it could be interesting to some degree to have a bulletin board chat area. But, for me, right as it is… I like the whole organic possibility of tangents and out of the blue rambles that exist now. I don’t feel it detracts. Again, I’ll embrace whatever comes down the pike, (i’m not constitutionally against “change”…) but my personal feeling right now is no great need to fix what I don’t believe is broken. I pretty much dig your joint just the way it is.

  • VALERY..

    no “sorry” necessary…i was evidently not being clear enough in what i was saying or trying to say…by the way i have a nice picture to give you from your show at Powerhouse…please send me an email reminding me…will be in new york this week…


    many thanks for thinking…hmmmm, the only thing i think we are losing right now is the great comment lost forever…IF we were on topic then all “careers past 40” conversations would be in the same place…or , is this a wrong assumption?

    if you read all of my comments on comments (which you cannot find i will bet because of the ramble system) you will also see that one of the main problems as it is may not be for you, but for me (selfish huh?) ….i end up writing a hell of a lot of answers to questions that are totally lost in a couple of hours and then the next day someone asks a similar question that i have already basically answered prior….

    if mentoring/editing is indeed the reason i am here, then need to spend my time really trying to help those who need help most and/or sending them to someone who can…looking at links, helping with essay projects that could end up on Burn, is where i think my time best spent…and yet so many say that my participation is necessary in the daily chat….IF the daily blog aspect of Burn can go on without me in it at all, then that is another story…what about that Michael? realistically can i put my time where i think it best serves the ones i can really help or do i continue as is??

    another way to look at it is: do i do fast conversations with a hundred people at the bar, or do i have a sit down dinner with six and a quality conversation?? where would you rather be?


  • Ha! Just saw Ross’s note. To me; the free-wheeling, organic inspired dialogue is one of Burn’s most important features. One topic dissolves or evolves into another and I think inspires the more interesting comments.

    Great minds!

  • the ONLY certainty in life is change…transformation, etc…

    i wrote, certainly, long enough under the last post about my thoughts :))…

    i don’t know why people get all stressed and worked up over whatever form BURN takes: small change, major change or no change….

    who cares…

    the work will come…the comments will come, all will be the same…only different…so why get all stressed :))

    the 1-comment rule won’t hold under Photos (i broke it first the last time when it was implemented and will again if good dialog begins ;))))) )

    the idea of a forum seems cool..and why not, because even that will evolve into very much a Burn Forum…not like the others…

    so, whatever transpires, i’ll be here…writing ridiculously long comments under pictures….and the ocassionally dialog/forum comment….

    just wait to Nova S essay gets seen ;))…i want that chat part as rowdy as possible (panos must be in charge)…

    in the end, i think everyone needs to accept whatever measure works for them and not blame others (bad comments, or too many, or changes, whatever)….when i read ‘about time for a change’ i think, screw that,it’s just nonsensical…because we all receive in measure what we put in…

    I say this:


    the rest of us will find a way to make it the the mad, brilliant, crazy, thoughtful, important place it is…

    gotta run…late to teach


    please note comment above posted simultaneous…Ross. one of the reasons we no longer have six pages of comments and only two is because so many just gave up…i know this from private emails…too many just thought the comment section was down to 5-10 very vociferous individuals….another certain bunch did give up who were not included in Burn 01 and thought they should have been, but that is a fairly small group…of the thousands who visit Burn each day , only about 25-30 people comment…so as we are talking about what Burn is, exactly who are we talking about here?? certainly not the silent majority….some of the silent majority do read but do not comment, but most evidently do not even go there….i am trying to reach some kind of happy medium so that everyone gets a chance to talk about what they want to talk about….maybe there is no way…anyway, this is what i want to find out….many thanks always to both of you who always add to the discussion no matter what…and for heavens sake keep commenting…i need and want this feedback…nothing is set in stone at all…


    again, many thanks for thinking….you always put things in the best perspective….

  • David; Thanks for the clarification. :-) As for the small bunch who gave up because they were not included in Burn 01,; that’s prety shallow on their part. I’m glad to hear it was only a small group though!

  • hmmm …

    not sure if it is a good idea, I am not that familiar with forums either, so this comment might be totally silly. If that turns out to be the case I apologize.

    Ross just mentioned that he would copy & paste comments, that he felt worthy of keeping, into a word document. I admitt I have done so too in the past. Now I have a lot of documents to siff through and a lot of information I know I would have liked to keep but lost, as I sometimes am not in the position to access BURN for a couple of days. And then I just do not have the time to go through everything.

    What if we could use a central dialogue place like it is now, with DAH throwing in his thinking pieces, and then, when a comment pops up, that could be worth discussing further under a separate chapter and archiving it as such, we copy that comment(s) – not into an individual word document, but into a forum … So everything people find worthwhile, could be searched and found later. People could add to the threads any time with updates or whatever. And we still would have “Dialogue” for chitchatter and the wild stuff, that maybe does not fit anywhere but it is fertile nonetheless. At least it has proven to be fertile more than once so far.

    Because I agree that if we start out in a forum, we will either not keep the thread clean or we might feel inhibited to chat – albeit I doubt that one :)

  • Trying to follow the discussion here about how to run the discussions on Burn is about as confusing as trying to follow some of the discussions about photography… LOL

    DAVID… I am not sure the best way to implement it, but I think as long as people keep the discussions about essays and single photos ON TOPIC and all the other discussions in another place, things will be much easier to follow.

  • “another certain bunch did give up who were not included in Burn 01 and thought they should have been”

    Really?! Sad.

  • DAH.. Yep. All that sounds cool as shit. if that’s what’s in the offing then let’s go for it. If you are going to be giving even that much more of yourself how can I (and others) not want to help out. If there’s a way I can be of service–not being terribly technically inclined, I can’t imagine how that would manifest itself, but i offer anyway!–please call! If moderating a chat room or forum of sorts would be useful, let me know. (“careers past 40″… hmmm, I think I resemble that remark!) ;^}

    Cheers, man.

  • “now as it is i might answer a question from Jason in dialogue…”

    Awe shucks David, Thanks! Using me as an example!? hehehe

    Hey i like the idea – I’ve often wondered myself how to keep information at hand especially in a virtual environment. And to ask the question since you brought it up – I graduate at the end of this spring semester and will be a free lens, so to speak…

    Last year, a couple of people at the loft were talking about digging through all of the past comments all the way back into road trips and finding the “jewels” and cataloguing them. I wonder, if there should be a section of the site titled for instance, “Wisdom”, and have it being a place where one can go for answers… If a question is brought up in conversation, the question and corresponding answers and opinions could then be copied over to the section for future reference. Maybe even having an “ask a question” area where one could type in a thoughtful question for you and other experienced individuals to ponder over and give answers to.

    Maybe even having an occasional guest speaker answering questions – i.e. James Nachtwey, Steve McCurry, James Estrin, Scott Thode, perhaps people from publishers like Aperture, etc?? I think this is a great place to grow!

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Dearest MR.HARVEY…I didn’t know what is forum…therefore I copy and paste from wiki…

    The Roman Forum (Latin: Forum Romanum, Italian: Foro Romano) is a small open rectangle surrounded by the ruins of ancient government buildings at the center of the city of Rome. Citizens of the ancient city referred to this marketplace as the Forum MAGNUM, or simply the Forum. It was for centuries the center of Roman public life: the site of elections, venue for public speeches and nucleus of commercial affairs. Here statues and monuments commemorated the city’s great men.

    Hmmm…I have been around Italy …Viva ITaly,Orlando,Abele,Eva…VIVA…!!!
    And all the others that have walked in the Roman Forum

  • p.s. sorry I haven’t had time to Skype – I’m done with classes in two weeks maybe then?

  • Of course Bob is right and it should not be more work for DAH and Anton. But you always can assign different people to administer the forum. Or assigned to certain threads /topics. To keep it clean and healthy. No need for DAH and Anton to do this, really.

  • Civi – Forum – open place to speak

  • Civi – Forum – open place to speak

  • a civilian-mass audience

    I haven’t read the above posts yet…hmmm…I believe that you are talking about a different…

    Hmmm…Can I phone a friend…he knows about forums???

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Yeap…hold On JASON…open place…here it’s says…

    The original Forum began as an open air market near the Comitium, but outgrew its day to day shopping and marketplace needs. As politics, judicial matters and trials began to take up more and more space, fora throughout the city began to emerge to expand on specific needs of the growing population…

    Hmmm…I need ouzo…
    I will be back

  • I agree having people assist – as editors – to help the flow of information, moving or copying – if we want the comments to like the copy text of a magazine – having editors moving off topic questions and conversation can help give the appearance of an “on topic” conversation happening. I don’t think that this extreme is necessary though – I like the off topic stuff it’s like thought – you see one thing and it reminds you of another. It’s part of the flow of conversation.

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Ok,I got it…we are talking about Internet forum…not the Roman…
    Therefore my 4 euros are:

    …since we had hot dogs for that long…why we can’t have a buffet…???
    Let’s do it…!!! If we don’t like it…we can always come back…
    We are flexible…hmmm…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Ok,I got it…we are talking about Internet forum…not the Roman…
    Therefore my 4 euros are:

    …since we had hot dogs for that long…why we can’t have a buffet…???
    Let’s do it…!!! If we don’t like it…we can always come back…
    We are flexible…hmmm…

  • I guess is that the most important part of burn is to keep “Works in Progress” section alive and relevant followed by the “In the Spotlight” that takes over from Photographic Essays ………..

    ……………………and of course the “How to buy Imants’s boos section

  • ….buying books instead of boos could be of interest as well

  • LASSAL..

    that might be a good idea….please remember however, that even with a forum for “clean topics” there will still be a place for bulletin board, chit chat, whatever…nothing really goes away, it will just be organized differently…again, nothing set in stone….


    please know that i value both of your contributions.. Ross you and i have work to do now..just the kind of work i want to do…to help with your essay which we will publish soon….Michael , i will be in DC wednesday…maybe time to meet??

  • CIVI..

    yes, of course, if we do not like it, we can always come back..after all this is our place..we are talking about “us”…


    yes, we want to have both a Burn imprint and serve as a distro point for books already created…this is one of the things we want to do most

  • JASON…

    you proved my point wonderfully…we have had those people you mentioned as guest speakers….you just didn’t know it i guess….


    ok dude, i will put you to work, but i will buy you a beer first…oldest trick in the book….learned all i know from Tom Sawyer and the white picket fence painting ….ha ha


    yes, exactly …pretty funny, the discussion on discussion has now gotten out of hand..laughing…oh well, what the hell…in DC wednesday afternoon…

  • A short story about choices.

    So your in this bar right, and the music on the jukebox is kicking, and your with a whole bunch of mates, and your checking out those two cute chicks at the pool table. The booze is flowing and everyone is just talikng the shit out of everything and trying not to catch the eye of those big biker dudes playing the table football machine for tequila slammers. Theres hot dogs and burgers and burnt ass chicken legs cooking outside in the garden that taste better the drunker you get.Which is a real good reason to set up the next round. The landlord is freaking out at some guy who just lit up a big fat joint right there at the bar and the guy is so stoned he just falls of his stool laughing. And then we’re all laughing.
    Theres fifteen different conversations to follow, none of which make sense, but what the hell its friday night and it was either this or some intimate dinner party down the road…..which sounds okay, but the biker dudes have challenged us to a game for double slammers and if we play our cards right we might get a lock in for some after hours partying.And those girls at the pool table seem game for a laugh and are as drunk as we are. Guess that clinches it.

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Dammit…that’s what I am talking about…

    Who wants ouzo…when we have BURN…

    P.S I wanna be the biker dude for tonight…WTF…it’s Viva Freedom day …

  • John G; And then your drunken (Aussie) mate who is dressed in Steve Urwin khakis (and has a ZZ Top beard)notices you making eye contact with a (slim) pretty girl on the other side of the room. “I’ll go tell her you fancy her” he say’s. I say “Oh God; please don’t…”, head in hands, knowing it’s not going to end well.

    He staggers across and says a masterful and sophisticated pick up line; “My mate fancies you (that was the censored version), and he reckons you could do with an effing good feed” I cringe, she won’t look at me again cos she thinks we’re all a bunch of yobbo’s…

    See things get misinterpreted in “real” life too, not just on the net! And no; I’m not talking about Imants… :-)

  • ……..and the Kiwi mumbles “What’s up bro” as he falls face first in the urinal

  • Imants; Yea; sweet as bro! Laughing!

  • ………..4amm drunk as skunks in the gutter
    Hey Bro
    Yea what’s hangin?
    Those pommie blokes sure were a queer lot………….. snort

  • Name the forum:
    “I’m not leaving Burn”:)

  • Actually,
    “I’m Leaving Burn”… Sounds better

  • David – I know we’ve had some, Steve McCurry the stands out the most because I completely missed him.


    you are something else!! fanfuckingtastic….great story and great input…and why in hell haven’t you been writing those screenplay pitches all along?? give Bob and Akaky a run for their money…well, laughing still, there will never be time when that bar room scene will not be around….BUT you coulda described the bar a bit different and the sit down a bit different as well and made the sit down sound a whole lot better if you had wanted to (after all that is how we met in London..we never woulda been mates outta the crowded bar) ….but i am going to leave it alone for now because i have to run down to the local rowdy pub…no joke ..your prose stands….thanks

    cheers, david

  • Never mind that at the ‘intimate dinner party’ everyone is missing, Clement Greenburg, Ydessa Hendeles and Jeff Wall are free-associating Asian zoos as metaphor for loss of innocence (whilst simultaneously scratching their heads, stumped at possible definitions of “webenfreude”.)

  • John g! :))))))))))

    love love love that :))…i’m with you on that one mate! :))


    This should be the official logo for BURN FORUM/DIALOG:

    running to finish teaching…


  • Jeff H :))

    Ydessa rocks! :))))))))…and she’s here…in T-dot…her place rules (my favorite art place when i first moved here…and she’s virtually unknown!)…


  • I’m sorry, but I was under the impression that comments under singles and essays was for discussion of said singles and essays, and that general dialogue, a word I am spelling correctly here for the first time in many years, came under the pictures that Mr Harvey posted. Or did I miss something along the way? As for buying Imants’ boos, as long as I have IRL nearby, I’ll never have to pay for boos; he’ll supply them for free. Unless Imants is selling booze, which is an entirely different bottle of boos altogether.

  • Webenfreud and the Bob Black logo will indeed be the benchmarks for the new dialogue space…call it what you will and do as you please…Jeff you misspelled Greenberg…i do not care , but he would have…

  • Reminder:
    RESTREPO (the movie by Tim Hetherington)
    starts in half an hour 9pmET..
    tune in the NatGeo channel..

  • Akaky I guess that’s how it is in real life ……..

  • We could start a lonely hearts section called Dear Ross ( he is the furthest away so there is less chance of someone chasing him with a big stick) …….

    Dear Ross ” My girlfriend bought me a camera is this a sign that she wants to drop me or are we getting down and getting dirty? What do you think is the matter with her?

  • I forgot to say I LOVE THE 2 PHOTOS ABOVE..

  • I think the idea has great merit. Although still visiting regularly, I haven’t posted here for a long time. One of the reasons being that it is very hard to keep up if you are not visiting everyday. Also great discussions often got diluted in general chit-chat. Chit chat is fine, no issues there, in fact it’s that friendly relaxed vibe–most of the time ;)–that makes this place. If there were some separation I think it would be a good thing.

    One thing to say against forums is that they can be over structured (by design), which gives a rather cold unfriendly feel and keeps things rather divided. That is far from what Burn is about, so I would hope that things wouldn’t move too far in that direction.

    Anyways… hope everyone is doing well!! :)

  • DAVID,

    Why I feel sad? When bad things happen in Burn how to not be sad? I lost nothing and will lose nothing. I agree with everything. Some things must change.
    I agree with James, it’s hard to follow the forum if you are not a everyday reader. So I miss most from long time ago.
    For me “silent majority” is something what keeps me away from forum, or rather put me in the silent majority sect. Besides I am road trips child. Best web party forever. But this is not road trip, and should not be. And I think you should cut the umbilical cord long time ago.
    viva freedom

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Yeap…PANOS…the photos are awesome…lighting …successful!
    The lady is stressed out…cause she missed the party…hmmm?…

    Forum will be ok…we need some separation… Dead chickens messed up with GFI’s and exhibitions?

    JAMES…thanks for reporting back!

    Oh…no…I am starting to experience …separation attack symptoms…:)))

  • a civilian-mass audience

    As long as I know…there is MARCIN around…
    I am the happiest civilian in the world!
    MARCIN…you can’t be released yet…I got a red belt(karate)…guess who has the black…:)


    and one more thought, making a special part for dialog will not work in my opinion. Nobody want to live in reserve. Nobody want to party in basement. Close the dialog section.
    maybe I’m wrong.
    just in my opinion

  • a civilian-mass audience

    “And the ride ain’t over yet…”

  • we can talk about this non existing thing for ages. :)
    sorry for being so German, are there any timelines, or a plan by when a forum would be set up or are we currently in the earliest planning, I.e.brainstorming?

  • Viva freedom… talk about commitment:

    Yeah, I know, off theme..

  • a civilian-mass audience

    …EVA…off theme…
    … the dungeons…

    Oime…we are awesome…

  • “… at the end of the day, most trolls wouldn’t have the gall to say to another person’s face half the things they anonymously post on the Internet.” Julie Zhou

    Are they following this? :)

  • FLASHBACK to Road Trips.

    “I’ve allways seen this place as an Open Room, A party, comings and goings occasional bottlenecks in the doorway, a couple quietly ageing on the couch nodding, someone holding court enthralling all around, someone’s vomiting in the pot plant.

    There’s a chandelier in this room and some appreciate its beauty and form, some think it’s just a bloody light, some know how many facets are cut in the crystal centrepiece and which Bavarian craftsman built it, and then some just swing from it.

    There’s a bookcase as well, where arguments, knowledge and opinions fly off the shelves, some are hit, never to be seen again, some come back stronger, ready for more, some look for a long forgotten stash behind the classics.

    Some enter in a frenzy, engaging all and sundry in a mad circumnavigation, naming countries, tearing down cities, building empires –Then, Poof! They’re gone! Some are in the corner staring at the lava lamp.

    Some enter quietly, circling conversations, earwigging, finally finding a group that fits, and joining in! It’s self validation – shit, I don’t suck that much after all! Some are taking a Leatherman tool to the drinks cabinet.

    Some come in desperate that the special someone who will make dreams come true and happy ever after will be a reality if they can just bend the ear of the host, take him by the sleeve and take him off to the bathroom for a special one on one, Some are in the street staring up through the window ,dodging the occasional TV or other white good that is thrown ( photography is solo rock and Roll), not coming up, not knocking on the door walking away, collars turned up, hat pulled down. Some are drinking out of jam jars because someone just broke a tray of glasses.

    Someone’s creating a scene, diverting attention away from the matter at hand, Drama! This room is filling quickly, time to spill out onto the street, who’s turn is it to go down the bottlo? We’re running low.

    There’s someone smoking on the balcony.

    we were talking about this 2 years ago just before Burn came out
    everything turned out well in the end !

  • The forums seem like a good idea to me, not that I think that anything is broken as is, or that the people who can’t stand the thought of others disagreeing interactively will not want to censor the new thing just as bad as they have censored the old; nor will those who are so upset that they can’t follow every comment that they want comments done away with altogether be able to keep up with comments once they are dispersed farther and wider, nor will those nostalgic for Road Trips, which contained far nastier attacks than those that go down here escape their imaginary past and enjoy this happily less-than-perfect present–but go for it anyway I say. Down with the old fort, up with the new! And let the nostalgia for the old begin asap, sniff.

    I can’t imagine what the new design will look like. Hopefully, there will be a page where we will be able to see who has posted recent comments to which forums. I like that aspect of the current page. It might be interesting if there were some automated way to group comments by author and subject, or at least forum, as well. I’m sure a lot of people would like to see all of David’s comments, or all of them on a particular subject, with one click.

  • This might be of interest to some:

    Good to see Lisa Wiltse’s work has gotten recognition.. you can find the entry form for 2011 here:

    On a forum, this probably would go under ‘exhibitions, awards’ or somesuch..


    just removed the comment i had for you here and put it on the front page…check it out there please…important i think

  • MW..

    good points…and when we meet soonest in new york to discuss the new design , i hope you will be there…coffee and donuts provided of course….

  • DAH, with the new design, is it possible to try photographs displayed on a white background as opposed to the current black? If the photograph contains dark areas in the outer area it currently tends to bleed into the black background at present – at least for me. This would probably mean that text would become black on white also. Worth a try?


  • MIKE R..

    sure, we will look at that of course…i know many prefer black on white…we looked at that over and over again on this design, and ended up with black…we could do that or anything in between…please note that a new dialogue post is up…you gotta keep up!! smiling…


    I must say I am surprised by what you wrote and how you read my comment (comments).
    I also not spent to much time in Internet. I am not professional photographer so the rest of time I not spend with camera, but just working for life.
    the road trips was my first and sole blog I participated. For me it was really great time. But I do not “lamented” the loss as you say. I tried to say how much I appreciate the time we spent then. if you blame me for that I prefer what was not what is… well I think I like both the same level, maybe I just not writer enough clear.
    I feel strong related with this place. I just like burn. This is great idea, great place.
    You seems to be frustrated and not satisfy by free dialog part of burn, and you asked about opinion about that.
    And I wrote what I think.
    I think that free comment part should be limited, not because I am such a big fan of road trips, but anyway I am still a part of burn audience, and I have opinion about burn and only burn.
    I know how much work you put in this magazine. You know how much I respect all what you do; your photography, your teaching, your magazine, and your on-line life.
    You wrote “Marcin gave me pictures to view and edit and consider for Burn or for anything, do you think i would do it? and Thomas i AM waiting right now for ideas from you for an assignment….”
    It’s mean if I do not send a pictures or essay to burn I should not write my opinion about burn?
    Maybe there is a misunderstanding in what I read, maybe I just see it wrong.
    I will not send an essay to burn because like we both agreed long time ago I will never finish one. And I will not send a pictures to burn because my pictures are worth nothing and there is nothing to share. There are family pics and memories, the place for my pictures is in family album and flickr eventually, not burn magazine.
    It’s mean I let you down? As a burn reader? As a burn commentator?
    So yes, there will be nothing more that mental support from my side. I even regret I can’t afford for burn01. This biggest event in burn life and big for you, for sure.

    Sorry that I took your comment personally. Maybe I should not.


    wow…a serious LOST IN TRANSLATION….i think you took the OPPOSITE of what i was trying to say to you…but now i must take my cat to the doctor…back to talk to you soonest…believe me there is NO DISAPPOINTMENT IN YOU… my oh my…smiling…you did post in the wrong place though..i will move it after cat doctor, or maybe you can re-post please?? give me your address…we will send you a free copy of Burn 01….after all , you are my first reader!!

  • Marcin,
    You totally lost me too…
    Like 100% if not a little more:)

  • yes, may be I get it wrong, i lost something as usually.

    Anyway All what is matter is here:

  • David
    The dialogues work fine for me they way they are, although I can appreciate that they are difficult to follow for those who do not read them regularly.

    There have been some good suggestions. A seperate “best of burn dialogue” would be awesome as many gems do indeed get burried. I also love the idea of being able to filter or search individual posters by name. Perhaps the option of being able to filter out the hecklers and toxic posters would encourage more participation by those who prefer not to expose themselves to negativity.

    While you are in the renovation mode, I’d also love to be able to search past essays more easily.



    thanks for finding that film…i have not seen that for awhile…but , from that film nothing has changed except i am even more bald!! have you seen the newest film similar to this of me working in Rio? out on the NatGeo channel now i think…check it out…but the point is i will of course always do my own thing which is ONE part of my life, but not the only part…the other part is working with photographers like you…to “pay back” if you will to a craft that has been good to me…it is to that end that i am here at your service on Burn..and email me your address please…thanks…

    cheers, david

  • To all film makers out there:David Lynch wants you:)

    Responsible for such iconic films as Eraserhead, Mulholland Drive, Blue Velvet and the cult TV series Twin Peaks, film maker and visual artist David Lynch is one of the most important directors of the modern era. Now aged 64, the man whose name has become a byword for the unorthodox and avant-garde has launched a new chapter in his career releasing an electronic single, Good Day Today / I Know, through leading UK independent Sunday Best Recordings.

    Now he is giving film makers around the world the opportunity to make the official music videos for both tracks via! Entries close on Dec 20 and there will be 10 finalists for each track, 8 selected by Lynch and and 2 based on votes. Lynch will then select a winner for each track, with both receiving £2,000 and having their videos serviced to media globally.

    You can watch Lynch’s personal video introduction to the competition here and see all of the details on the David Lynch page.

    We’re over the moon to be working with such a legend of cinema and hope you’re all just as excited as us to get such an amazing opportunity.

  • Btw.. I don’t advertise David Lynch..
    I actually like him but I find the £2000 to little of a prize for a videoclip..
    Can’t even COMPARE with what Burn pays for photographs….!!!!

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