BURN is buzzing…..in New York…..now….

wherever i went at the recent New York Photo Festival in the last couple of days, BURN was the talk of the town…now yes of course it would SEEM like that to ME…..but, even factoring out the dah pride thing, BURN was buzzing…..

however, forget that….the important thing right now for all of us is the response you have given us starting within seconds of us putting up the donation button…..as many of you know i was reluctant to put up a donate button…..hard for me to ask…but the response has been humbling to say the least….YOU have saved BURN…well, you have saved BURN for another month or so…but, that might be just about right….we are making the big push for responsible sponsorship, setting up a gallery for your work, continuing as per normal my personal mentoring for some of you, and continuing to put out an online magazine (annual print)where we can share our opinions on a wide variety of styles …. where the integrity  and morality of the work is just as important as the aesthetic……

i want us to be on the high ground…as sponsors now view us, each person here is personally responsible for our move into a whole new world of publishing….what you now write is read by many in our craft and in our art…your words are now more than ever IMPORTANT….as you hold me to my responsibilities, i will hold you to yours…..

think before you write and write exactly as you think…

as we move closer to Look3 and the announcement of our  EPF grant recipient, our discovery/promotion  of the new talent imperative here on BURN will clearly be manifested….you may or may not agree  with the finalists and the final jury choice, but i do not want anyone to doubt the integrity of the selection….Anton and i together went through all 1,200 entries…i made the selection of the ten finalists within the context of serious second opinion from Anton….so we alone are responsible for the ten finalists soon to be presented on BURN starting  probably on Tuesday….a prestigious eclectic jury of peers will make the final choice for the 2009 recipient….neither Anton nor i will have a vote towards the grant recipient….there will be other, soon to be announced,  support for the remaining finalists as well…

our potential sponsors will notice our traffic and the loyalty of our audience….mostly they will notice our audience produced content with the emphasis on authorship……they will definitely notice your volunteered financial support for BURN….i thank you for all three from the bottom of my heart….

part of my plan is  to put some respected legends in our craft on commissions specifically for BURN…i want to do the same for some of you……not just the EPF finalists, but for the most talented  of you here on BURN….for example,   one legend producing original photography for BURN and three emerging photographers on an equal commissions doing original work as well….i can put this together with guaranteed photographer’s publishing rights, better than editorial day rates,  and artistic control by the authors….how could i represent anything less??? we are going to rock with this one….

i will count on you to help keep BURN all  it can be, and i will do all i can to help you to be all that you are….

…..david alan harvey

5,528 thoughts on “buzz..”

  1. DAH and Fellow BURNERS,

    “…think before you write and write exactly as you think…”

    Always good advice, which I have tried in my own humble and at times inadequate way to follow, both on “Road Trips” and now on BURN. I don’t always leap up to add my own comments to every photo or essay these days, but it doesn’t mean I don’t look at and think about the photos, or read and think about the comments. Over the last couple of years, aside from the exposure here to a wide range of photography and personalities, and the fun of hanging out with DAH even at a distance, the writing… and the reading… I’ve done here has taught me a lot about communicating, how to look at photographs, how to think about them, and how to talk about them. And, at times, how to hold my peace.

    One of the ironic characteristics of the Internet is that while it makes any kind of commenting, blurting out ideas, engaging in repartee, drooling out drivel, striking a macho pose, or being offhandedly dismissive, ridiculously easy, it also broadcasts the message infinitely in time and space… and the thoughtless or casual tweet becomes indelibly carved in cyberspace, possibly to return and haunt its owner years later. The Internet is also democratic… thoughtless, shallow, abrupt, or dismissive opinions get posted on the same forum with really heartfelt, sensitive, profound, and illuminating writing.

    Now, one of the great attractions of “Road Trips” was a frothy mix of the lighthearted and casual with the serious and considered. And some of the ‘confrontational’ stuff actually added drama… and a more embracing synthesis once the drama was resolved. At times the balance may have veered a little off course, but DAH’s gentle nudge of the tiller was usually enough to regain balance and keep momentum building. You don’t need me to repeat what a marvelous journey this has been up to this point, and how excited everyone who has been involved, even peripherally like me, must feel. There’s a question in my mind about DAH’s words of caution above, however… will this make people too self-conscious to be spontaneous, take unexpected detours off-thread, or crack light-hearted jokes? Or maybe back down from a confrontation before they’ve actually said their piece?

    Maybe I’m only projecting. If you’re really centered in who you are and what you’re doing, then damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead. Yes, the stakes are getting higher now, the audience is much bigger, but that’s no reason to get stagefright… Remember, it wasn’t ONLY the serious stuff that made both “Road Trips” and BURN such an attractive place to hang out. In the last couple of weeks it seems to me the commenters have mainly been ‘the usual suspects’, a rather circumscribed group that frankly feels a bit claustrophobic to me compared to “Road Trips” when it was in high gear. I’m hoping the posting of the EPF finalists will spark dialogue from a much wider range of commenters. And I promise not to personally hog the airwaves. Best of luck to you, DAH, and everybody else! But let’s not get too serious… remember, it’s only Rock’n’Roll.

  2. buzz buzz buzz
    i am a blondie bumblebee
    i am watching the world turn
    just round and round
    don’t we all end
    where we started out to bee

  3. DAVID
    you are so generous
    YOU are making all this happen
    your vision…
    I am honored to be here,
    will try oh so hard,
    to better articulate my thoughts..
    for you
    for Burn….
    for photography
    and the craft
    we all love
    filled with passion….
    we are all here for the same reason….

  4. DAVID,

    I do think that what makes this place so special indeed is that the audience is also producing content. Clearly, no matter where a great piece of work comes from, it is always a pleasure to look at it, but personally, the most satisfying for me, since the early days of Road Trips, has been to closely follow the growth and development of some of the readers. I find it so rewarding to see what some started with, witness the evolution of their work. A year ago, I remember that Panos was the man everyone hated when you announced the first EPR recipient… a year later almost, Panos just did a big exhibit of his Venice work…what a cool journey… similar stories are true of Patricia, Audrey. Sean is now rolling more than ever. James got some big award for his cemetery work… Hillary as well has just amazed me with what she just did… Of course, we cannot say that this all happened only because of Road Trips and Burn…Several of these photographers would have done good work regardless but you have acted as a catalyst for so many out there and you are still giving to so many that kick to get out and shoot, produce work… From a personal standpoint, the same is true for me. Just this week, I have been holding in my hands the book that I have done with Blurb (hopefully leading to another publication later on) with my “Lords of the Ring” work. I hope to show it to you at Look3 but I was looking at this with some positive feeling of accomplishment (I hope you do like it…) and there is absolutely no way that this work would have ever taken place if it was not for you and the challenge you had set many of us to tell stories, give ourselves the dream assignment that we would have liked to be given… Because of all this and more, I will continue to support BURN in the best way that I can and sometimes contribute with my own work. Somehow, I have been less present than I would like on BURN and far less that on Road Trips…maybe for the reasons that Sydney shares above. I maybe have been missing the more lighthearted and casual nature of Road Trips but I think that the most likely reason is that my crazy hectic life of the past months has made it more difficult and somehow felt less in touch. I hope that as I settle back in Europe, I will have more ability to stay close and participate. My obsession lately has been to find another project to get my teeth into. In any case David, I am sure you must be proud to see what BURN has become and I think this is just a beginning. I think that we should be calling you Merlin with Anton being the magic wand that supports you… the two of you create magic :):):)

    I can’t wait to see the great essays that you must have selected this year and I look forward to see this combo of Legend and emerging photographers in action very soon.



  5. SIDNEY…

    i absolutely do not want to create stage fright at all….the loose ramble always welcomed….however, the looseness of Road Trips was in a 180 degree out different environment than this..

    BURN publishes the work of many readers and may finance the work of some…

    Road Trips did not publish any work from readers …a very significant distinction that many forget…RT may have given me more time to chit chat with readers while BURN is a major editing vocation…and remember also Sidney, at any given time i am behind the scenes on Skype with no less than 5 readers working on their essays…..however, i still jump in here quite a bit…but, mostly i am interested in what you all have to say to each other…

    the Dialogue section (right here) gets pretty loose , on any topic, and can certainly always be our “bulletin board”…

    in any case Sidney you have a voice….i listen…we all listen….i try to respond when possible and when appropriate as now….

    as i have said to you from day one…thanks for being here….


    when i first met you and your father in Sicily, i knew you were quite an unusual case….your work was professional in nature, even though you hold down a full time career having nothing to do with photography and also have a more than full time job as dad and husband….your development has been astounding….and your enthusiasm catching for all around you….i am ready to work with you on your next project…but, let’s completely finish Lords first…make sense???


    you must just simply light up everyone around you…i never have seen you not smiling….such a flower child!!!! love it…


    that is what i want you to be…..


    sting like a bee too??? hmmmm…..back where we started..yup….i like circles….

    cheers, david

  6. hmmm…
    thought you left me out… good catch… edit..
    cut and paste… like my friend used to say…

    me a worker bee. i die after i sting. so i save it.

    (more energy now that youre not such a poor boy)

  7. A civilian-mass audience

    Mr. Sidney Atkins,

    You have the gift of the Articulate writing !!!!

    I am the ‘the usual suspect’of the rather circumscribed group …and I’m HOPING the posting of the EPF finalists will spark dialogue from a much wider range of commenters. THANK YOU!
    It’s only Rock’n’Roll and we love it…

    “well, you have saved BURN for another month or so…”
    BURNIANS AND CIVILIANS…for just another month?
    …UNIVERSE we can DO better …FOCUS and DONATE !!!

    “think before you write and write exactly as you think…”
    I PROMISE that I will try as long as I breath here in BURN to think before I write and to be responsible
    …I pledge …No more LA bomba’s from my side :(

  8. A civilian-mass audience


    We know that you are out there…
    We understand how hard is to trust … Modern Times …yeap…

    “Never TRUST the man who tells you all his troubles but keeps from you all his joys.”
    Jewish proverb

    BUT wait a minute… you can trust BURN …yes…
    Cause here at BURN we are telling all our troubles and we are sharing ALL of our JOYS !!!
    VIVA SPONSORS !!! Whiskey on me!!!

    P.S trust ME… “Beyond Here Lies Nothing”

  9. i think the biggest difference between road trips and here is that there is always work being discussed.. always new work to look at.. and that´s made this a place to visit way beyond the reasons on road trips – which was a place to talk about photography, and where the mentored photographers showed work.

    what i have loved about burn is seeing some of the same people find voice for talking about specific work of others – people who they do not know.. myself included – i was never that comfortable to crit work on roadtrips..

    sidney – well said.. however when i joined in on road trips it was iin part easier because of the regulars – i could see what the place was about and tuck in.. i know it is different here, but the ramblings and mumblings which are aside from photography also serve to make the place less scary i think..

    in terms of the postings you´re right sidney – whats written here stays here unless deleted.. so all, myself included, need to be conscious of that. keeping the comments of the ´positive crit´ kind will encourage people to submit work..

    david ah
    brilliant that the plans are coming together for the commissioning wing of burn.. very exciting step not only for burn – but in terms of web-magazines in general.
    many i have worked for see advertising money as easy and for keeps, and ask frequently for free work or (as with one client) ´behind the scenes´, photos for free web use while i have been working on a fee basis for the print magazine.
    i know it is a trend beginning to change, and it´s about time.. it is great that burn will be showing some other sites, who are much more capable of paying, how web publishing needs to move forward.

    regarding difference of opinion on here – if it´s about photography that´s brilliant.. if it is not then i would say to people – just back out of it.. use emails.. or just move on quickly.. there has to be a trend for less personal postings on here.

    the commenting people here are not the majority.. and it´s great to see burn developing along lines for the silent majority, who just love looking and thinking about photography.

    okay.. chasing accountants day :ø/
    yesterday was a blast.. full-on family day out.
    some snaps.. beate and tor capa therein


  10. Fantastic,

    I hope that Burn burns it up. Ofcourse theres buzz, theres also buzz on the internet, Burn is regularly mentioned on different blogs. Burn should be buzzing because its fresh, varied and interesting. Its also so busy its difficult to keep up with for those of us whose free time has suddenly evaporated. Can’t wait for the EPF finalists to finally be shown. Very exciting stuff, David.

  11. EDITING PART 14 – the joy of a harvey wallbanger.

    the latest installment of editing for my book – the behind-the-scenes work of burn magazine – is on my blog.

    with gracious thanks david.. i was unsure we would cover much ground today.. great conversation and thoughts from you which will help me to blend the work.. legs wobbly, sweat is pouring, mouth is dry, but I CAN SEE THE FINISH-LINE :ø)

    http://bophoto.co.uk/blog/blog.htm through my website or…

  12. brilliantbrilliantbrilliant!

    I have been seeing and hearing a lot of buzz and humm and crackle about burn around new york… almost every photographer I talk to knows about it, and if they don’t they certainly do after they meet me.

    i look at burn just about every day. I sometimes check it before my e-mail. I’m addicted to the rush of burn, and you keep making it sweeter david. You have me for whatever you need in the city!

    Don’t forget to keep me in mind on your next burn meeting in NYC.

    “I am an ant,
    and we are ants,
    some of us fly
    most of us walk;
    we march in unison
    to the beat
    of our own

  13. ALL…

    I had the pleasure of talking with DAH earlier today about the Burn gallery and he asked me to pass along the following…

    a) First of all, it is going to happen…real soon…!

    b) At the moment he is swamped with the preparations for Look3 and of course publishing the EPF finalists, so the actual process of selecting which pictures will be included in the first show and all the practical issues that come with putting together an exhibition will start in the middle of June.

    c) Those of you who shoot digital could make use of the high end printer that DAH has and save both on shipping (especially so if you’re living outside the States) and on transit time for your prints to get to the gallery. The rest of us who still shoot film will have to send in our silver prints by mail to and address that David will give in time. His personal preference is in tubes but flat shipping is ok too…

    d) Since the wall space is somewhat limited (this is not news for those of you who’ve been there) ideas on how to display more than a couple dozen 16×20”s at a time will allow for more people to participate. Also, ideas on promotion… a catalog… online galleries/sells… projections…

    e) One of the main objectives is to actually sell some prints to help both Burn and the photographers involved so, we are all encouraged to choose a couple of pictures for consideration that we think (or “know” from previous experience) that have the best chance to do just that…sell.

    f) On the issue of money—and even though I’m really NOT a wealthy guy… I tried to explain that for me (and possibly for some of you) helping Burn in its first steps and the “cred” of participating in the gallery would be payment enough but David would not have any of it. He is a “what is fair is fair” kind of guy… (by the way, have you ever heard of the gallerist who was offered 100% commission by the artist and said “no, 50-50 is better”???)

    Finally a personal note:
    I have never attended a workshop of David’s, or even met the man in person, and he still gave me the time of his day… he is the real deal, and this place has the potential to become… well… whatever we collectively set out to make it… support Burn…


  14. DAVID B

    “Wasted” as the title for your book? YES!!!! Having been to my share of EM scenes, I’d say that pretty well captures the general ambience. And thanks so much for posting the link to your blog entry. I am fascinated by the process you and David are going through. It’s not long now, my friend. You’re in the home stretch…


    P.S. Tor is ADORABLE!!!


    We are really on a roll here, and who do we have to thank for that? David Alan Harvey. This man is busting his butt to give us more opportunities than we emerging photographers could ever have imagined possible. I mean, how many of you ever dreamed you might have prints hanging in a NYC gallery? And a gallery that is already the talk of the town before it’s even been totally cleaned up from the previous tenant!

    Virtual? Hell, there’s nothing virtual about this community. David has moved the internet from an ether-bound entity into something so real you can pinch it. Speaking of which, I keep pinching myself these days to see if I’m dreaming that I’ve somehow ended up here on Burn, ended up with ten months of my work printed in a Blurb book ready to show a publisher, ended up being mentored by one of today’s iconic photographers, ended up feeling so close to photographers from around the world. I’m sure I’m not the only one who thanks my lucky stars that somehow I found my way first to Road Trips and now to Burn.

    So, whatever we can do to help Burn generate even MORE of a buzz, let’s do it! Donate what you can in terms of funds, take an active part in the discussions but think long and hard before posting anything that could be construed as mean-spirited, submit your work for publication, encourage your photographer friends & colleagues to do the same, volunteer your time if at all possible to help get our gallery up and running, and just keep shooting shooting shooting. After all, words and ideas are good, but for a photographer there’s nothing like DOING IT to keep the creative juices flowing.

    I am SO grateful to be part of this community. And David, you are THE BEST!!!


  16. THODORIS – thank you for helping get the gallery up and going. i think it is going to be exciting. i already know of a few pieces i want hanging in my house.

    BUZZ – yes, there was a buzz at NYPF. I met a guy who NEVER comments on Burn, but does read (occasionally) and donated money the first day. i thought that was very cool.

    LOOK3 – i hope many of you will be able to attend this year. it is going to be EXCITING! please let me know if you have any questions about tickets, hotels, etc…. happy to help!!

  17. ANTON – i like the “donation” link – instead of “support burn”. the new one is less prominent. just my opinion…

  18. I wonder how come we dont have Tanzanian albinos here. Well, I would wonder, but I managed to score a week’s vacation and I am not going to think about this until next Tuesday.

  19. In any case, I had to go to a wake and funeral this past week; one of our former neighbors passed away and I had to represent the family. This was fine with me; funeral homes are pretty fascinating places, all in all, though you might not think so if you worked in one. That’s a pity, really, a case of familiarity breeding contempt, if you will—the sheer economic wonder of the place just eludes you. Here is a commercial enterprise that does a thriving business every year despite the fact that almost all of its potential customers don’t want to have anything to do with it and would just as soon never have to use its services at all. You’d have to work in the public schools to find something equally unpopular, and public education only works because the government requires the kids to show up. Funeral homes just have to wait for the customers to drop in, to the financial discomfort of the life insurance industry, a business that prefers to have people insure themselves against the inevitable, which is profitable, rather than the inevitable actually occurring, which is not.

    Unless, of course, you own a funeral home, where the inevitable brings in money hand over fist. When you own your own funeral home, for example, people will come to you and buy big ticket items that wouldn’t dream of buying otherwise and these same customers will take your word about these items and what they will do or not do, as the case may be. If every business in the country could get away with this, the number of lawsuits filed each year in the United States would drop faster than Sister Mary Frances’ jaw at a strip club. The sheer audacity of some of these claims and the fact that anyone can make them with a perfectly straight face is nothing short of positively breathtaking.

    For example, if you go to your average American funeral home, someone on staff will be more than happy to sell you a coffin that is absolutely, positively, no two ways about it guaranteed not to leak for five hundred years. Think about that for a second. How do you check that claim? Can you go to your local public library and check the Consumer Reports for May 1506 and take a look at the product rating they gave this particular line of caskets before you go running home to tell your assembled loved ones that your Uncle Harry can now go for half a millennium without worrying about getting his feet wet? Will the manufacturer refund your money if some water manages to get into the thing in 2247? Are all the parts and all the workmanship under warranty for all of that time, or will the guarantee lapse after, say, three hundred years? Then, of course, why would Uncle Harry worry about getting a leaky coffin in the first place, since he has finally arrived at that happy point in his terrestrial existence when he doesn’t really have to worry about whether or not he’s going to catch a cold.

    Following the purchase of the coffin, which is expensive enough, considering only one person gets to use the thing, there is the question of where do you put it once you’ve got Uncle Harry in it. This might seem an easy decision to make, but you would be incorrect in your assumption. Whether you like it or not, you can’t bury Uncle Harry out in the back yard next to your dog that got run over when you were six years old. No indeed, Uncle Harry has to go to the cemetery, and to go to the cemetery you must have a plot, and buying a cemetery plot is as full of twists and turns, shifts and bad faith as any other real estate deal.

    First, location, location, location; no matter what anyone says about just dump me anywhere, the fact is everyone wants a tomb with a view, even if Uncle Harry won’t be able to see it, what with his watertight coffin in the way. People fight over getting a prime site in the cemetery are willing to shell out big bucks to get what they want, even if they have to sublet to a family of illegal aliens and a troupe of street mimes in order to pay the maintenance charges, and all this for a place too small to hang your hat, assuming Uncle Harry really needs a hat for the next five hundred years. Hats would seem purely optional at this point, I think; it’s really a question of personal preference.

    In any case, you will, at the end of this long and drawn out process, be the proud owner of a plot of land too small to qualify as an apartment in Manhattan, and you will own said plot in perpetuity. This statement is a bit of a howler, I think, and is right up there with the coffin not leaking for five hundred years in audacity, because by the time perpetuity comes around to ask you for a loan or whether or not she can go to the senior prom with that way cool Hell’s Angel from Martian Colony #9 you will be in no condition to check out what perpetuity has to say about your owning the land. I imagine old Khufu thought he had a lock on all he surveyed at Giza, courtesy of his building the Great Pyramid, breaking the Pyramid Workers Union, and his casual dismissal of OSHA regulations. No sooner was he dead than every other Pharaoh decided he just had to have a pyramid in the same neighborhood and the damn things kept popping up around old Khufu like geometric mushrooms. Ramses II was another big shot who bought the line about owning his plot forever, and where is he now? It’s just as dead as he is, or maybe even deader, since Ramses has a good civil service job these days as an exhibit in the Cairo Museum. I think there’s a garage over the spot where they buried him the first time, but I could be wrong about that.

    It’s not likely that Uncle Harry would get a gig as good as Ramses got, although when you think about it, this is a big comedown for Ramses, steady as the job is. One day you’re the leader of the most powerful nation on earth, and all of sudden it’s three thousand years later and you’re stuck in a glass box with all of your relatives nearby and snot nosed little kids who don’t want to be there in the museum in the first place are staring at you through the glass and going, EEEEWWWWWW, that’s gross! (Or the Arabic equivalent thereof). That probably won’t happen for Uncle Harry. Three thousand years on he’ll be in a museum somewhere, stuffed in a drawer somewhere along with a lot of fifth century American Indians and whatever the archaeologist could find of your grandmother as well. So much for all the money you spent for perpetuity; all you really got for the money was some space in the drawer next to the janitor’s lunch. That’s something to look forward to, isn’t it?

  20. Akaky, I have always wished, but perhaps never so much as I do now, to simply be fed to the worms.

    EPF, LOOK and Gallery … one, two, three … things certainly are on fire.

    Hmmm, since the gallery will be a series of weekend events as I understand it … do the prints really have to hang JUST inside the gallery itself during the show? There are two doors, and a big hall, if the neighbors were okay with it. And … not everyone attending will be able to afford to take home a print, so what could they afford as a consolation, what piece of this little historical event could they take with them for a nominal price to help support Burn and the Burn stash? (I mean besides a camera bag … although not a bad idea … the DAH bag auction and gallery opening. I think I’m joking.) Perhaps those were logs for the fire.

  21. BURN is my ‘HOME’ of photography.
    I have never seen any mentors and any places like David Alan Harvey and Burn.
    He has devoted all his efforts and times for emerging photographers and photography.
    I know that it is very easy to say something but it is very hard to do something.
    We all emerging photographers have some dreams of our own.
    He is the ONLY man who has made it to come true.
    I really really THANKS to David Alan Harvey and Burn as a photographer!

    p.s.) Panos, Congratulations on your exhibition!
    I really want to see your prints of works. :)))
    Hope you to have great success of photography!
    Best wishes,

  22. BURN is my ‘HOME’ of photography.
    I have never seen any mentors and any places like David Alan Harvey and Burn.
    He has devoted all his efforts and times for emerging photographers and photography.
    I know that it is very easy to say something but it is very hard to do something.
    We all emerging photographers have some dreams of our own.
    He is the ONLY man who has made it to come true.
    I really really THANKS to David Alan Harvey and Burn as a photographer!

    p.s.) Panos, Congratulations on your exhibition!
    I really want to see your prints of works. :)))
    Hope you to have great success of photography!
    Best wishes,

  23. A civilian-mass audience

    AKAKY said,
    “That’s something to look forward to, isn’t it?”

    PANOS said,
    “i’ll second that

    P.S Akaky wanna be my neighbor ?

    FIRE is fire
    wanna kiss your Cambo WDS
    oime your Digaron – S

  24. A civilian-mass audience

    Dearest BURN magazine,

    My Civilians fiends have problem with the Support Button

    HIGHLIGHTED …it needs to be HIGHLIGHTED…cannot see…

  25. Dear Sean,

    I imagine that Everything has been disappearing in the yellow sands… Very imaginary and symbolizing photo…

    I’m very proud of you as an EPF recipient .
    You are doing well.
    I ‘m looking forward to your book and projct. :)))

    Best wishes,

    P.s.)I couldn’t upload this comment at the ‘Seleected photographes’.(Sean’s Photo)
    I don’t know the problem of web.
    So I uploaded this here.

  26. thanks patricia :ø)
    yes.. wasted.. slept on it – it may come accross a little negative and i´m still open to ideas, although i love it.

    tor capa has his own blog now.. just getting a couple of good posts online and will email you the link :ø)

  27. A civilian-mass audience


    thank you for the link …we can see MR.HARVEY in action !!!!

    with all my respect…he looks that he just came back from a safari or something…
    Africa…Australia…who knows?
    I thought that the hunting period is over…no?
    It’s just the sparkle in his left eye… my humble opinion…
    Db you should have put the warning button before …posting the above link
    FOCUS, my man and keep baby Tor, far away for a while…
    ( to be perceived as a joke) I feel dizzy when I sit for long at the back of the bus…
    ONE DOWN …NINE TO GO…hunting period is NOT over !!!!!!!!!!!

    WHAT not to LOVE ?

  28. A civilian-mass audience

    Kyunghee Lee,

    Where have you been? Welcome back and YES

    MR. SEAN is the first BURNIAN to be “burned”. We are so prou of him !!!
    Let’s see how gracefully he will pass the “torch” to our new EPF this year !!!


  29. Civilian when are you going to come on a pig hunt, Mick from Bullamakenka would love to fill you with a few bundies and chuck you in the back of the Toyota and chase the ferals

  30. A civilian-mass audience

    Love you Imants…I am a fan :)

    That’s why Mr.Harvey is still waiting for your to edit…
    Now we ALL know what the heik you are doing…:)

    OIME, MR.HARVEY !!! Do NOT try to SKYPE IMANTS…nope
    No burb book, no finalist…FOCUS,FOCUS IMANT …let the pigs alone…
    SHOOT …you took that literally, don’t u :))

    P.S in the BACK …again…do I look like a CIVILIAN ?
    …oups, I am a Civilian…WTF or no?

  31. A civilian-mass audience

    I’ll second that

    What NOT to LOVE !!!

    VIVA ! I am in love…again…pavlova with ouzo or no?

  32. A civilian-mass audience


    ***Pavlova is a meringue dessert named after the Russian ballet dancer Ánna Pávlova.

    The pavlova a meringue dessert [5]. It is prepared as a cake of meringue which has a crispy crust and is soft and light meringue inside.
    The dessert is believed to have been created to honour the dancer during or after one of her tours to Australia and New Zealand …
    The dessert is a popular dish and an important part of the national cuisine of both countries…

    ONE DOWN 999 to GO…

  33. A civilian-mass audience

    OR IMANTS ON PAVLOVA… I am bad …today …Enough

    Focus Civilian, FOCUS !!

    P.S Trauma center OPEN 24/7


    sorry, but i was not growing a beard on purpose…i just was in a mode of personal appearance neglect…i just had not taken time to shave for the last few days….

    the HUNT is never over…..that is my problem….

    cheers, david

  35. A civilian-mass audience


    The trauma center is on aisle 2 ” on the roll” .
    Personal appearance neglect, depression, feeling of emptiness, envy, anger…
    Please, proceed to the correct aisle…
    FOCUS, Focus…damnit
    that is your problem…:))

  36. The commissions idea is so on spot and terribly generous at the same time..it is jut right. Dispatches is doing a good thing with this too, but they so far have stuck to the more known names as far as I can see…but commissioning any new quality work is a good idea in my book,,,

  37. A civilian-mass audience

    VIVA ERICA !!!!

    Did you submit? Are we waiting for a book?

    P.S how was the coffee with the girls…you know…NY style?

  38. ’twas dinner and slideshow with Gina and Kerry, and ’twas grand..thanks for asking..as i said to Kerry (cause I already knew Gina) I wasn’t going to make any kind of effort to make sure we get to know each other fast over the first meet, as I always knew that she is lovely and good and that we are already sisters..

    indeed am working on a book dummy, still shooting for it tho..something in making the book helps to see what is needed. I did contribute, i never submit :)

  39. (blush) Erica, sweet!

    burn is indeed unique in that friendships develop long before real meetings ever take place, only to grow after they do… AND we get to learn a boatload about photography in the process!

    Hope to meet many more of you at Look3!

    Now CIV, I am 100% true-blue Aussie, and all this talk of pavlova is making me yearn for a slice…
    Pavlova, meat pies w/peas, bbq and beer. The true flavors of Australia.

    Panos, congratulations!

    Congrats to all the EPF finalists – can’t wait to see your work as it is revealed!

    A beautiful day in New York!!! Life is good!

  40. panos skoulidas

    Thank you…!!!
    Congratulations to ALL that
    decided to photograph the world..
    Today and any day..
    Let’s pick up the camera and go out and shoot..
    Shoot, shoot, shoot y’all and…
    good light…:)

  41. PANOS – i did. saw lots of old friends, met many new ones… had a lovely dinner with erica and kerry. saw anna-maria (berry-jester) and kelly-lynn james. bought 8 new photo books and enjoyed the new york photo festival. will we be seeing you at LOOK???

  42. Gina…
    girls night out … i see… girl power…
    As far as Look3???
    I have the same question….no idea!!!!
    hotel reservations, air fare… tickets…mucho cost…
    i need to borrow the “donation button” for a week or two..:))))
    hmmmmmm….pale…..i see clouds….

  43. Just looking at the NYT’s new photo blog, “Lens.” Kinda hard to navigate. Lots of images. Drowning in images. Too many images. Books are better than the web. Something concrete. Something real.

    But the web is the future of photography. .


    Love love LOVE the slideshow of Friday’s opening!!! Almost as good as being there…well, not quite. But it looks like a totally cool scene and Panos, your work was displayed in a way that felt VERY authentic and suited you & your subjects. Way to go!!!


  45. Jim,
    the web is like the “telephone” or the “tv”…or the “ipod” or the “radio” or a “newspaper”
    just a form of communication… nothing more…

    definitely NOT the future of photography or anything…
    maybe You or Patricia or one of the finalists…here…could be the future
    but… only … only if we keep on shooting….
    the next “great” picture and the “next” great essay ( and the mind behind it )
    could be the future of photography… but definitely not the web…

    i wanna thank Haik and Jared once again for the slideshow and not only….
    they set up the whole show…They both put ridiculous amounts of personal
    work and MONEY for that one night….
    thank you again

  46. panos skoulidas

    Looks like I’m wearing “your” T-Shirt Charles..
    Thanks again…

    thanks for the slide show..
    congrats Panos…
    where were the go go dancers?
    viva venice!!!!

  48. A civilian-mass audience

    You starving Venice free spirit big mouth big hard truth teller Greek lost boy…
    you made Civilians so PROUD …

    if I wish for ONE wish, I will WISH for a FRIEND like you…

    you have been picked as the SEXIEST “photolooking” in the block…
    Civilians voted again…

    P.S Panos you are tall…why did you put so many photos on the floor…??
    Weird,it feels like VENICE !!!!!!!!!!
    and who is the BEAUTIFUL GIRL…DID i miss something? Freida was there with the pink…but the little fireball over there???…Please SUPPORT with TEXT…!!

  49. A civilian-mass audience

    BURN GIRLS YOU ROCK !!!!!!!!!

    MAYBE YOU CAN MAKE A book and talk about it…?!!?
    Maybe a coffee Book …?

    P.S I love Aussies…HIGH ENERGY…I gave up…I am just a siesta civilian
    If I only wish for one wish ,I wish I was there…

  50. Fuck yeah Panos! You know, that particular image, when Katrina struck I was sitting in Seattle feeling helpless and then I decided to do a limited edition of that image. If somebody donated $200 or more to the charity of their choice and sent me the receipt they got an 11X14 fiber print (in an edition of 85). The edition went in a couple of days and a lot of people were inspired to donate more than that. I think in the end it was more than $22,000. I probably could have done a lot more, but man, printing, and packaging 85 was about my limit.

    So I think of that whenever I see that picture.

    When are you back in Seatown? We just bought a big new/old (1909) house that well be moving into probably end of June. You’re always welcome.


  51. A civilian-mass audience

    Charles Peterson,

    All our Love to the other BURN baby !!

    FELIX we love YOU !!!

  52. A civilian-mass audience


    I just got this … 1909 …Fixer upper…I was born 1909 …GOOD LUCK , my man !!!

  53. hi katie-cakes,
    just checked yer latest comment.
    wtf! (where’s the fire? is that what it means?)
    how are you dear? things letting up a bit?

    very interesting this burn magazine.
    is this magazine about the greats trying think about technic
    blah – blah – blah
    or can any of us just watch from an UNcalibrated machine
    sipping on peach mango tea, rocking from a torn up chair
    and taking it easy, looking at nice little pictures
    of nice little people reminding us of memories
    of how good life was when we were little people ourselves?

    sometimes i feel the more you know about the how tos
    and the why tos, we get lost in the maze of knowing
    — and if that is how it’s going to be
    i am pretty happy not knowing… and just knowing where the shutter is

  54. Glad to see the “Venice” opening slideshow, Panos, and Jared and Haik. Looks like it was a funky, no fuss, fun evening, too bad we can’t put names on the few Burnian faces present.

    PS: Whose 12 string acoustic was that, Panos?

  55. Kathleen Fonseca


    i want to eat a piece of Pavlova! mmmm..good!


    “definitely NOT the future of photography or anything…
    maybe You or Patricia or one of the finalists…here…could be the future
    but… only … only if we keep on shooting….
    the next “great” picture and the “next” great essay ( and the mind behind it )
    could be the future of photography… but definitely not the web…”





  56. Kathleen Fonseca

    hahaha, Gracie..i posted mine and you were posting yours! WTF? here’s the fire? huh?? don’t get it..am tired but, huh? I didn’t write WTF!..not this time, another time yeah but not this time..and um, WTF means What The F**k..

  57. Kathleen Fonseca


    “…is this magazine about the greats trying think about technic
    blah – blah – blah
    or can any of us just watch from an UNcalibrated machine
    sipping on peach mango tea, rocking from a torn up chair
    and taking it easy, looking at nice little pictures
    of nice little people reminding us of memories
    of how good life was when we were little people ourselves?

    sometimes i feel the more you know about the how tos
    and the why tos, we get lost in the maze of knowing
    – and if that is how it’s going to be
    i am pretty happy not knowing… and just knowing where the shutter is”

    Gracie, believe it or not you REALLY nailed what the issues were for me when i looked at that essay. Flash and dazzle technique or a captivating alternative reality that we can imagine just for a minute being a part of..an escape from the humdrum adult world and just slipping away to some delta island on the other end of the world? Love what you said. You simply nailed it right to the wall. In your usual elegantly sweet way.

    love ya honeychild

  58. Kathleen Fonseca


    hahaha, i KNEW it wasn’t an acronym you’d EVER get close to! i know you!!!


  59. A civilian-mass audience

    WTF means WE are THE FIRE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    WE THE FIRE !!!!!!!!! WTF


    P.S DON’T ever ever mix pavlova and ouzo…EVERRRRRRRR
    Buzzing like I am in VENICE… Amore mio…nanannanann !!!!!!!

    Blink I will be late.

  60. A civilian-mass audience

    DAH = Do As Harvey or Dance As Harvey…

    Come on help me out BURNIANS… !!!

  61. Kathleen Fonseca


    okokok//pavlova and expresso instead..do you have a headache? Are you bouncing off the walls? easy now, Civilian, i don’t want you smacking your beautiful head against a wall..

    where’s the fire..hahaha.GRACIE, that was funny!!!


  62. Good night you bunch of chemical smelling, pixel loving philosophers. Been MIA for a while…swine flu, house changing and new horizons. Look forward to catching-up.

  63. A civilian-mass audience

    JARED !!!
    YES, I had nothing to do with the result… I was born 1909…
    but you are HOT according to Civilian records…Finalist in our records :)

    PANOS !!!
    YOU Magnetic wall !!!

    JAN !!!
    We were calling your name…Welcome back…C’EST TOUT…oime, dyslexic friends be ready!

    KATIE !!!
    24 hours …are you ready ???

    BOB !!!
    where is the birthday photos…I am waiting…THE ONLY ONE BOB BLACK !!!

    DID I TELL YOU ???

  64. Kathleen Fonseca


    You are the darlingest person to remember…i am COUNTING THE HOURS…down,,down down till i hold her in my arms..for like one second and then she’ll be off to see her friends. But i will be happy knowing she’s back in her own country, her own house, her own room. Thank you, thank you for remembering!


    YOU ARE BACK YOU DIRTY DOG!!! where the hell have you been? You come back here all muddy and wet and your fur smelling like you rolled in something dead, now get in here and don’t think about escaping again, hear me?! Here, here’s a dog biscuit..so glad you’re back!

    muchos hugs

  65. Kathleen Fonseca



    Continental 1796 from Newark
    Arrives 8:25 PM

    can’t wait!!


  66. A civilian-mass audience


    EVERYONE we have BURNIANS on the airplanes …

    P.S ok, please, can you put her on BURN when she will settle in…I wanna see her…
    go ZZZZZ…i want you to look fresh…and grandma too…give her her pills :)))

    I WANT NEW BLOOD !!!!!!!!!!
    Look at me …I am just a Civilian… I want NEW blood…JOIN BURN …WTF

  67. A civilian-mass audience



    THIRSTY for NEW BLOOD :))) You rock, my man

  68. bob – HAPPY BRUFDEEE.. have a great year / decade / and all..

    lance – yesyes..

    panos – great description of the web.. really like what you did with the exhibition.. the big prints looked great..

    haik n jared – great snaps.. nicely done..

    all – grow a beard by mistake.. it is the way forward


  69. Kathleen Fonseca


    It´s the 21st in the evening so i still have another night for zzzz´s ..i will figure out a way to show you her pic…hmm..probably on Converses, k?


  70. A civilian-mass audience

    loving ZZZZZ
    on me!!!

    THANK YOU, THANK YOU with your recent posting:
    “…CIVILIAN is that he NEVER loses his cool no matter what is coming at him…i have never had a blogger as an actual role model, but CIVILIAN in this regard surely should be for all of us…i think it turns out that his background as a community organizer is the perfect background …”
    You didn’t have to go all this way…Thanks anyway!

    Will you accept my KEY for your GREEK house.
    I have proposed to you before but I want you to know that :
    I LOVE YOU !!!!!!!!!!!

    P.S BURN Magazine, I know you are extra busy BUT if we rub PLATO the wrong way ,can we have a refund?
    No need for immediate response !!!
    beer on Jim cause he got a refund ( To be perceived as a joke)

  71. A civilian-mass audience


    Focus, focus …I am a Civilian …I have tried lots of stuff.
    WHITE LIQUOR indeed = 二锅头

    Are u A finalist?

  72. Thaddeus

    just wanted to say thanks for the mention of me as a note worthy photographer shooting portraits. Was having sort of an unfortunate morning, and reading that warmed my heart, it was very sweet of you, really. The amount of hours that I spend working on things alone is a bit against my nature and makes it a challenge for me to keep on at full speed always, and in a way that I don’t fully understand it does help to hear that the work does make an impact. The comedic thing is that of late it has become a little bit of a pet peeve of mine to be thought of only as a portrait photographer..I completely understand why I am but in my heart I am just “a photographer”. Hopefully the new project that will be up here on burn at some point will help to illustrate that..but my point is, being called a note worthy portrait photog by you was quite touching.

  73. Thaddeus Pope

    Dear Erica,

    It was my pleasure. I’ve visited your website many times and still find that body of work truly inspiring. I’m really looking forward to seeing your new project here on Burn. Enjoy the rest of your day.


  74. A civilian-mass audience


    THANK YOU all from my CIVILIAN heart …
    it seems you came a long way…
    even with all my efforts via (ouzo, beer, whiskey…)
    you are very “strong” and “civilized”
    I am PROUD…
    and I see new BLOOD, new BURNIANS coming…
    Don’t be afraid…BURN is the place to be…!!!!!!!!!!

    I will be back…Don’t blink

  75. A civilian-mass audience

    OK, BURNIANS blink !!!

    Fiji … then Fiji we go !!!
    Shall I stop calling the Universe for new “blood”?
    Breath, just breath, close your eyes and there you are…
    why not Greece ? Anyway…Fiji is ok with me.

    You are always welcome here …but for your “state” you have to proceed to aisle 2

    P.S When is the next payment, do we have the option for monthly automated withdrawals…
    You are doing fine my man…just take your vitamins, don’t forget to drink WATER,and wash your hands.
    AVOID dancing and kissing …weird “bugs” around…

  76. Kathleen Fonseca


    Hey! Katharina has come to Buzz…She knocked on your door and paid you a smile..(spfffttt…i think she deserves a key but i don´t want to tell you what to do with your own little greek cottage) But let me tell you, Civi, she´s the real deal..

    gotta go..more work!

  77. Totally apropos of nothing..WTF is up with (some) teens in NYC? I just spent some time trying to “get in” to a group of boys so i could take a few photographs..it went almost okay on the whole maybe because I called them out on their intimidation tactics and switched the focus to their curiosity about girls, but man they were so foul mouthed and loud and rude and aggressive and from another planet than my teen planet. They were from what you’d assume to be the stereotyped demographic of low income troubled kids, but even if that is true they seem far more lost than I would have expected, it’s as if they have lost their humanity compass altogether. I’m half interested to keep trying and half to not..Short of bringing them to center focus and seriously investing in them and a long term relationship, not sure what would assuage them.

  78. Erica – where in NYC – like right in manhattan or in one of the boroughs? How disrespectful where they? I imagine that it may not be communicable over burn, but I’d like to know as I try to deal with a lot of the youth culture in the Brooklyn area and, by the by, they are decent.

  79. Vasilios..

    yes Brooklyn..and I agree, I talk with/ photograph youth here often without issue. They were amped up as earlier there was a fight between two girls, and what seemed to be 100 kids were running through the streets to try to catch it…a lot of the kids lived in the Red Hook projects. Summer fever madness maybe..

  80. “better apply for a refund before i buy a one way ticket to Fiji…..”

    You might not get into Fiji now, after the army abolished the constitution and sacked all the judges… Journalists need a special visa, and if you say anything negative about the govt, you’re sent home!!! :-))

    Come here to NZ instead, only heavy rain and snow storms to worry about today!!!!


    Anton helped me designs a “bumper sticker” to sell at LOOK3 this year….

    What Happens at LOOK3
    Stays at LOOK3…
    (and ends up on Burn.)

  82. Erica;
    I’m shooting a youth project at the moment. Mind you my focus is totally different; it concentrates on kids just getting along with life, but getting stigmatised by the bad actions of a few.

    The only problems I’ve had so far are with the “gangsta wannabees” who don’t, in general, take part in the indie music (rock, punk) scene I’m shooting at the moment. I can only think of two incidents of aggresiveness (towards me), and typically, outside on the street away from the indie music kids.

    Even in our reasonably affluent small city there is a rising amount of really nasty unprovoked teen violence, but again it is perpetrated by a few. Kids getting jumped (& hospitalised) by 6-10 teens just for their mobile phones etc.

    Actually the violence had me questioning my own project, but it firmed up my resolve in the end, because most kids aren’t doing that sort of stuff.

    The major difference I’m seeing between now and when I was young (I’m 46) is that if there was a fight between two teenage men when i was young; it was settled right there and then. Now the loser often gets his retaliation with half a dozen of his mates later on in a carpark etc.

    Also; kicking someone in the head etc when they were down didn’t happen often, whereas now it is a common occurence. Often by a group of people too. I feel sorry for kids having to worry about that sort of crap happenning; growing up is difficult enough…

    Again, this is in a relatively affluent small city in a rural farming province…



  83. Erica – I was recently in red hook… As commonplace as this is to say there are always bad seeds around. But sometimes flukes occur, pack mentalities develop and then ill behaviors manifest in peoples/group that normally wouldn’t. Summer madness is a good way to put it, and the adrenaline from a blood-y-nose-lust for youngsters can be overwhelming.

    I’m done some work in the Bushwick area (i live in betwixt in east williamsburg) and there are definitely rougher spots than others… and of course bed-sty has a stigma all of its own.

    I find it interesting to hear others experience in this area. I have yet to experience something too distasteful other than the colorful language that kids engage in to act like adults (and adults engage in to act like children)

    Ross – the times have certainly changed from your view – and my own. I hate to say it because its so circumstantial, but it is less safe today than in the past; the culprit? . I think one of the most important thing for photographers delving into these issues is two-fold:
    1) giving a non-threatening demeanor and 2) having an uncanny ability to disarm – and now’n’days more than ever.

  84. hi katiecakes
    would you consider sharing
    megadrippinsokolitsyrup pistachio ice cream
    in the worlds-widest-waffle cone with me
    a high point of your day?

    focusing i am, dont think youre jerry springer.
    but yeah as you say,
    ‘love and take care of each other’

  85. erica–

    no youth here has ever been nasty, disrespectful or aggressive with me.
    honestly. it just doesn’t happen.
    but my situation is different. i’ve been on the streets with them for four years now.
    they all know me and respect me and when new kids come through they are introduced to me
    immediately, told that i’m the street mom there and it’s understood that that title entails respect.

    it excites me to think you are maybe, just maybe going to walk down my path a little..?
    it would change your life. and theirs. irrevocably and brilliantly.
    personally, i cannot think of a single thing i’d rather see than street youth photos by erica mcdonald.
    uffff….. i quiver to think of it…



  86. Kathleen Fonseca


    hahaha, yeah, like i could stick my entire face in a waffle cone right about now..and Erica talks about tough kids out on the street? street kids are a piece of cake compared to the low flying UFO´s that come at a person online..so heya, Gracie! wazzup? You got pistachio ice cream you´re giving away? Think i´ll just plunk myself down at your kitchen table and grab a spoon. Guess what? In 21 hours my baby comes home from Madrid!!! i´m so excited i can´t think straight..which should be obvious to anyone reading Burn tonight :))

    how are you and your wee poets?


  87. how are you and your wee poets?

    dont we all forget (when we become fancy
    and important, distinguished)
    we still eat and breathe, laugh and love
    and love to smile

    tough kids need love from somewhere someone
    tough jobs need breaks
    hot heads, tired souls need green ice cream

  88. Kathleen Fonseca

    Gracie our Muse..our lady in blond curls..

    truer words have not passed my eyeballs in quite some time..i love pistachio ice cream..i love nuts. i love tough kids, i love being a mom..i love YOU!

    what else matters?


    bless your blessed family

  89. Vasilios;

    Yes demeanor helps, as does the gift of the gab!!! Also, if someone is under the influence be careful what you say. Even an innocuous statement can be taken the wrong way, as I found out a couple of weeks ago. The person really concerned really kicked off, pissed as a chook and pretty agro. After half an hour of talking, well mostly listening; he calmed down. But this was an isolated incident.

    I have been shooting nearly every weekend since New Year’s Eve in this particular indie music bar and have only seen two potentially unfriendly moments, both caused by people who don’t usually go there.

    After one punk night I had 6 people come up and thank me for taking photos down there and showing interest. They all said they get blamed for being a bit dodgy because they’re often covered in tats, piercings and wearing black. Yet it is one of the most accepting environments I’ve ever been in.

    I think it makes a difference that I’m older too. When I was 18-ish anyone over 30 was ancient, so I often feel that they are surprised that I am interested in them. As one said to me “You never see the newspapers down here”

    It’s now got to the stage when the kids come up to say goodbye when they leave. I’ve turned into the resident grandad I think!! :-))


    I also have a dozen or so printed project overviews in my camera bag that I give to anyone i talk to. It’s justan A4 piece of paper that describes the project and has a link to my photos. It’s amazing how one piece of paper does the rounds. Anyway it’s often too loud to discuss the project when the bands are playing.

  90. A civilian-mass audience

    Brooklyn, Venice, Miami, Costa Rica,Toronto, China,Paris,Athens…same stories,different names.
    To My Erica,

    Sometimes I have a feeling that I want to bunch some of their faces…YES,I the CIVILIAN
    BUT at the same time I want to take those same faces and SQUEEZE them so hard from love and admiration!
    What I want to say is MAYBE they “feel you” that you ARE NOT ONE OF THEM. They can SMELL you…
    See, Katia has a unique smell,it goes well with them…

    Anyways, BE you and ONLY you, You are AMAZING,and if you SMELL different maybe you will have to disengage.
    Maybe your true calling is elsewhere…!!!!!

  91. A civilian-mass audience


    7 HOURS TO GO…OH,my …I can’t even FOCUS…weird…I need to check in TRAUMA CENTER:))))
    JULIETTE WE LOVE YOU !!!!!!!!!!!

  92. A civilian-mass audience


    KATHARINA AS Hipparchia the Cynic…
    You are my role model …I am trying to cut and paste YOUR bio from your website but I have NO luck!
    YOUR WEBSITE ROCKS !!!!!!!!!!

    KATHARINA if you will read this , your key is ready …
    and you are HOT too…hmmm….?

    P.S Katie…I knew YOU are MY EYES and my ears !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    LOVE ,ALL we need is LOVE…

  93. A civilian-mass audience

    AND my GRACIE,

    I want ice cream too. You are always here for ALL of US…
    You are THE ONLY ONE GRACIE !!!!

    p.s Who is this J.Springer? Does he BURN ???

  94. A civilian-mass audience


    you are a BURNIAN , a true BURNIAN, and as a BURNIAN I want a high self esteem.

    REPEAT after me:

    Hands UP in the air like Herve …again:


  95. A civilian-mass audience

    gina martin:

    “Anton helped me designs a “bumper sticker” to sell at LOOK3 this year….” you twisted minds :)))
    Wendy you are right…:))) they ROCK !!!

    Be United Rock Naked = BURN

    Burn United Ride Naked = BURN

    WTF help me out BURNIANS …

  96. Ross / Vasilios..thanks..it was a weird day..the man who called the police was an instant target, was jumped, these kids were only about 13..it’s as if all fear/respect for elders is gone..i guess that what was I was getting too, until I stayed and stayed, then they warmed..

    KATIA yes yes. to see the changes in a couple of the boys faces, the way they were leaning in to hear what I was saying, and shussing the other ones who were still taunting..it was touching, they asked if I was going to come back..I think it will have to be an organic situation if it unfolds, I don’t think I can choose this right now..

  97. erica–

    please stay in touch with them, however intermittently, if at all possible.
    they ARE “lost” and i feel your presence among them would remind them
    what goodness is. a truly caring adult in their midst could mean
    the difference between being lost.. and found.

    thank you for existing..


  98. KATIA

    xo..I may bring a couple of books over to show them..mostly to show how / why their stories are important too..the concern/ assumption is that I’d only want their image to do them harm, and it would be great for them to get that my interest was because they are worthwhile..

  99. and KATIA

    not to break your heart, but here is a student essay about the houses a lot of the kids live in:

    “The Brooklyn Red Hook Housing Projects are located on a peninsula in New York. It is a public housing project and is a large part of Brooklyn. The people that live here are “cut off from the rest of the world” so to speak. Most of the building complexes are built like middle class apartment buildings. They are usually six floors high, but they are occasionally up to 14 floors high. Considering the building complexes are so close together, they seem like a prison. The buildings are connected together, occupying a space of about 12 blocks.

    The Red Hooks were built in 1939 and now contain many different races such as Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, and mostly blacks. Many of the children go to shabby schools with a low class of education, but over half of them don’t go to school at all. A big lack of respect from the young people in the projects has become a big issue in the projects. One reason for this is that they are out running all hours of the night with no ambition to do anything but to make or steal enough money to buy drugs or alcohol. Another factor is that people are becoming parents at a younger age than usual. Therefore, none of these people are teaching their kids any respect because they never grew up with any.

    The physical conditions of the buildings are poor in the projects. The areas that used to be full of grass are now just fenced in concrete slab. There is always a lot of construction going on. The buildings you live in determine how nice they are going to be. The drug dealers tend to live in the dirtiest of the buildings. Usually all the buildings are graffiti filled. The rooms are all terribly small. You can barely fit a family of four in a two-bedroom apartment.”

  100. A civilian-mass audience

    erica mcdonald
    May 21, 2009 at 7:07 am

    “..it was touching, they asked if I was going to come back..I think it will have to be an organic situation if it unfolds, I don’t think I can choose this right now..”

    katia roberts
    May 21, 2009 at 7:25 am

    please stay in touch with them, however intermittently, if at all possible.
    they ARE “lost” and i feel your presence among them would remind them
    what goodness is. a truly caring adult in their midst could mean
    the difference between being lost.. and found.
    THANK YOU for existing …”

    hmmm…PLEASE ENGAGE, please ENGAGE…you might “smell” like them after all??

    LOVE what else to ASK for???

  101. “they are worthwhile”,..yes, yes and Yes.

    and this i say with conviction, that
    underneath their posturing and bravado they are good
    and kind and want nothing more than to be loved.

    please bring them the books.
    a tear slides down my cheek to think of it..



  102. A civilian-mass audience


    “a tear slides down my cheek to think of it..”

  103. A civilian-mass audience


    this blog is about my relationship with many of the homeless street youth in seattle.”


    What a blog …Me Civilian I am Speechless …
    I want to say THANK YOU but I have so many tears…

  104. Kathleen Fonseca


    THANK YOU! yes, Juliette´s en-route! i am en-loca!

    does Katharina burn? does she burn? oh Civibaby, does she! just listen to this..(insert the word ¨Burn¨ for ¨Bang¨)

    KATHARINA this is for you, ggrl!


    Katia and Erica

    thanks for this exachange as well..i have read most attentively..i shoot these kids every week..they are precious children..underneath all the chains and the smirks and the posing and strutting, they are kids. But they also want to be taken seriously, not condescended to..so if you joke with them, smile sincerely, walk easily among them, they´re red seas will part..

    it´s a beautiful thing..

    the best thing i ever did was to go shooting with a yashicamat tlr..the boys loved it..they all wanted to look through it and i let them take pictures too..they bonded with me instantly over our mutual respect for strange machinery. also, if they´re goths or whatever, admire their clothes, ask them about their culture. they love to talk about it.

    also, Latinos..remember always, always, they are extremely traditional at heart. Ask about their moms and their hermanitos..for them it´s allll about family. I don´t see so many black kids so can´t tell you about that culture so much.

    Make friends with one who is friendly and accepted..he will be your key to the group. If there´s a weird or dangerous dynamic, don´t show fear. walk as they walk and if you can´t get the chemistry to realx then disengage gradually, naturally. In no time you will be able to walk among them as the unique paerson that you are and nobody will lift an eyebrow. You´ll probably meet their moms and aunts and stuff too..being relaxed is the most important thing..as if you´ve always been there. as if you are one of them even though you clearly are not. they´ll love you for that accepting quality.

    hope you don´t think i´m intruding..it´s just that i shoot tough kids all the time. i love them most of all.

    hugz to you both

  105. A civilian-mass audience

    KATIE ,
    you are my ears, my eyes and now my VOICE…I am not good with words…’smell’ ,”engage”
    You covered me …again…speechless…You have a way with writing !!!

    Shy BURNIAN but her website is “cold “like fire !!! Speechless…again…

    Easy on Juliette,
    breath before you talk…Did you read above…THE NEW GENERATION…


  106. A civilian-mass audience

    Where is Lassal,Asher, Martin B, Abele, Tom Hyde, Paul T, Sofia, Patricia…?

    Where is ……., …….,……..,……..,…..,?


  107. KAT..

    yes, all good things to remember..I am glad you are involved with the kids.

    I actually was involved with a ‘shooting back’ type of photo program for at risk kids in Bed Stuy..and these kids had up big walls and had it tough (which really surfaced in showing Gene Richard’s Cocaine book and Donna F’s Living with the Enemy with comments like “looks like my mom after she..” and “I could get one of my step-dad like that doing..”) so i am familiar with the walk..but these kids yesterday, it was the absolute disregard for adult /authority and for each other that got to me..they really wanted to see these 2 girls harm each other, had no problem hurting the man who made the police call, and certainly could have turned on me if it didn’t play out as it did..but I’ve said enough on the whole thing.

  108. ALL..

    can someone please post the link with photos of Panos’ opening party??? i just cannot find it……and i got so far behind with everything that is going on that i missed it the first time around….

    i cannot find my glasses either….or, my card reader…or, my aussie vest…i am a mess for sure…so help me out please on the Panos party…..

    cheers, david

  109. panos skoulidas

    It’s my birthday today..
    thank u all the “face-bookians”..
    that wrote on my dirty wall…
    21st of may…!!
    thank you….:)

  110. Kathleen Fonseca


    you know, i think the proof that a society is broken is when the kids get just like this..what you witnessed yesterday. It has been happening here too. i have seen it on the news but have not personally witnessed it. And it´s profoundly shocking in this country. Yes, perhaps i am very naive about my experiences because i have always been treated so well by kids even when they are thieves, live on the street and feared by locals. I think i would have been shaken up badly if i saw what you did, felt that anarchy, smelled that violent energy..something i am sure that would have literally made my blood run cold. The worst thing that happens to me is some kids will approach and i can feel that they are not good..right then, with that group, i can feel the danger. And i scram like Michael Jackson´s ¨beat it¨.

    I hope you never experience such a thing as that again. i feel sure that you won´t. Best of luck and success with your project. i REALLY look forward to seeing it because you have a wonderful eye for the soul within.


  111. Kathleen Fonseca

    Panos..feliz cumpleanos, birthday boy…this year has been a helluva ride for you and i know next year will be even better because you, baby, are just hitting your stride!

    love always

  112. Kathleen Fonseca

    Panos, Katharina

    Kat, thanks for posting the slide show..i enjoyed it totally..Panos, congratulations..the slide show made me feel like i was one of the happy revelers..and your prints, ohmygod, they looked amazing at that size. So fabulous..loved them!


  113. panos skoulidas

    Thank u Kathleen and now it’s a good opportunity
    to thank HAIK once again..
    This guy was in charge of everything…
    From the prints to the wine and even checking on
    my mood regularly…:)

  114. Congrats on both the exhibition and your birthday! Interesting stuff and going with the small prints as well was a good idea. Good to not see an un-pretentious exhibition!
    You should check out http://www.jarisilomaki.com and his work. I have seen two of his exhibitions and he basically just nails the prints to the well. Anders Petersen also did that on a recent exhibition. Masao Yamamoto and his working methods are also interesting.


  115. Was adressed to Panos of course. It would be great if the posts were editable sometimes :)
    Should be “Good to see an un-pretentious exhibition!”

  116. panos skoulidas

    Thank you Martin…
    Thank u for the links..
    Yes I was trying to “recreate”
    a “Venice beach feeling”..
    In a white empty room with no sand either…
    And no frames…

  117. panos skoulidas

    … Not an easy task…
    But Freida helped me out..
    Dressing my photos with colorful fabrics…
    Instead of using expensive traditional frames ..
    thanks again Martin for noticing…!

  118. panos skoulidas

    As DAH said.. You’re always smiling…
    You’re a blessing…!

  119. A civilian-mass audience


    We Love YOU and you are looking Hot !!!

  120. A civilian-mass audience


    WE have No clue how you are looking BUT you Must be HOT too!!!

  121. A civilian-mass audience

    I am TRAPPED here…

    Got to go!!
    2 down 998 to GO

    VIVA BURN !!!!

  122. panos skoulidas

    Thank u CIVI and Laura Montanari for
    sending me wishes in Greek ..!!?
    Viva Italia and viva France ( Audrey merci..)
    and viva Germany… Martin..
    Hey Beijing.:)
    What up!!!

  123. PANOS – HAPPY BIRTHDAY MI AMIGO!!! hugs from baja, california!

    will watch the link when i get back and the internet is not so slow.

  124. where are you civi?
    you are so needed…
    people need air,
    to breathe…
    to center…
    my goodness,
    it’s rough out there…
    I’m feeling for Jenn…
    her essay
    got lost in the
    damn shame….

  125. Kathleen Fonseca


    SHE´S HERE!!! (and already in bed asleep..which is fine cuz i know exactly where she is for a change, haha)


    You are one helluva good person. I mean that.


    You´re right, credit goes where credit´s due (haha, i first typed ´dude´i love a good ironic typo) Haik is such a great friend to you..and believe me you could do a LOT worse than having someone like Haik to call friend…I think we could all do a lot worse..HAIK, you´re great!


    You´re another one..i agree with DAH, you are always smiling, always such a joy..i smile right back atcha whenever i see your name always followed by your signature long line of words, choreografed so beautifully into a white column of smilig good cheer. Just thought i´d say that..particularly tonight when the site is so serious, so dug in against a blizzard of opinions and heavy handed discussion. I am taking a breath before i dive in…………or not. But your post is a good reminder to me that i´m here for the photos and not for the angst.

    ciaio chica

  126. A civilian-mass audience


    You have a lucky star…My Gracie will come with her music and she will tell all the right words…
    LOVE and see you soon !!!


    besides the Street Fighter what about BURN spoke(woman)…
    ENJOY …ENJOY…ENJOY…I can see you laughing like big mama and DAH …:)))
    Please, don’t be trapped to the BURNing web…enjoy for a while …from your dyslexic CIVI…!!!!!!!!!!!
    LOVE YOU, LOVE YOU …etc, etc,etc

  127. A civilian-mass audience

    TO ALL,

    This is a GOOD point. CONSIDER :

    May 21, 2009 at 9:37 am
    Is it possible that some of the confusion may have crept in because the photographer’s first language isn’t English?”

    THANK YOU ALLLLL, please don’t ger trapped in the WEB :)

  128. A civilian-mass audience



    “… he made an intimate portrayal of the closing of an asylum for the insane on the island of Leros, Greece, a project that became the subject of his first book, Leros… ”

    As a Greek Civilian I am NOT proud for “LEROS”
    But AS Civilian of the world I am proud for the photographers…that you are OUT there …

    YOU are the “EYES”… please SHOOT responsible…

  129. A civilian-mass audience


    from now on ,you will be called THE BURNING SMILE …

    always has its physical counterpart
    or bodyguard with an optional ‘on’ button:
    or SHOULDER SHAKE enough to make
    mossy marbles roll around

    us humans are endowed with self control
    and a super ego taped to a pointy finger
    quivering over the ‘on’ button

    (kudos to the one who understood
    what i just said this friggin early friday morn)

  131. yes, Herve, i am ‘incorrigible’….imagine being married to me ;)))))))…

    anyway, after a long long talk last night, here, will make this it…hold me to it….

    all left to say….luck for all

    Dreamsong: 1

    Huffy Henry hid the day,
    unappeasable Henry sulked.
    I see his point,—a trying to put things over.
    It was the thought that they thought
    they could do it made Henry wicked & away.
    But he should have come out and talked.

    All the world like a woolen lover
    once did seem on Henry’s side.
    Then came a departure.
    Thereafter nothing fell out as it might or ought.
    I don’t see how Henry, pried
    open for all the world to see, survived.

    What he has now to say is a long
    wonder the world can bear & be.
    Once in a sycamore I was glad
    all at the top, and I sang.
    Hard on the land wears the strong sea
    and empty grows every bed.
    -john berryman

  132. gracie..
    i´ve now drunk so much coffee today that i am wired in head and want to fly away like my full stops and commas who went missing this way or the space between words whicharegoingastraysonocoffeeformealthoughheresoneforthee

  133. A civilian-mass audience

    I have tickets for Fiji !!!

    ALL aboard…???

    Bobb you are incorrigible***…THATS WHY WE LOVE YOU

    Davidb =” I’ve drunk so much ouzo that I am wired in head and want to fly …” :)))
    DAH =” I will be out…skip forward (72hours and) 15 minutes….”:)))

    I will be back …

    *** Etymology: Middle English, as a (1) : not reformable : DEPRAVED (2) : DELINQUENT b : not manageable : UNRULY c : UNALTERABLE, INVETERATE

  134. A civilian-mass audience

    NO, we are NOT “trapped”,

    we are just playing a trick and hiding in the barn !!!!!!!!!!

    I am gonna bring some matches too in my way back in case you are stop BUTNING …yeah right..
    Laughing like You with you at you …ESL needed :))))

    LOVE ME TENDER…nananan…LOVE me…
    J,K,G,DB,BB,PS,H,K,W,D,P,…YEEEAAAAAAAA, HAAAAAAAAAAA…Spacecowboy…?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

  135. ANTON / ERICA / ALL

    “whatever you do, DO NOT INTERACT with disrespecting or demeaning comments. let the comment stand like a sore thumb, ignored by all. it’s the only way.”

    “I think this is now the correct approach…. I just want to be clear that this isn’t about freezing anyone out… it is about addressing the behaviour which is problematic and unproductive.”

    I couldn’t agree more.

    Anton has provided the antidote to this recent infection, it’s now in our control to stomp out this behaviour; it’s clear if we keep going on this way it’s materially undermining the health of our future.

  136. ALL….

    we are now preparing letters to all who applied to the EPF so that you can know one way or the other if you are in the running….

    the delay in doing this was caused in part by one finalist voluntarily dropping out because this photographer chose to no longer work on the project for which application was being made…a VERY honest photographer…thanks, you know who you are…..the other reason is of course the sometimes slow task of double checking the credibility and veracity of each applicant and their story, permissions etc etc…….and with one dropping out, we had to go back through quite a few second choices and quite a bit more research…

    this whole process has been daunting to say the least…Anton and i literally have had to go through and do all of this by ourselves with not even an intern to help…..no complaints, just a bit of an explanation of why we are a week behind….when the dust settles i hope all of you will be proud of the selection….

    i would also like to point out that the judgments of work here has nothing to do with perhaps previous judgments of the same work….i had no clue, nor did Anton, of any previous recognition of work submitted…with so many photographers to view, we did not research each and every one to see what had happened to the essay in previous awards…however, really strong essays often are awarded several grants , so this is not an unlikely scenario at all….as a matter of fact, i cannot remember any strong essay not winning multiple awards….

    photographers who are not finalists are still high on our list for future publication and possible commissions…i mean, there was a lot of truly fine work submitted……a lot….mind boggling actually…a real surprise to me….

    while obviously i am proud of the EPF and thankful to the donors who made it possible, the EPF is just a small part of what we want to do with BURN….it came up as an interesting possibility on Road Trips and just segued over here….however, at this very moment , i would say i will never do it again…a whole lot of work and a constant defense of doing this whole lot of work and at a personal financial loss to both Anton and i to boot….but, time may change my opinion…as i always say, a good nights sleep and a hot shower remedy many things….i do at least have hot water….

    thank you for your patience…..letters should go out within 24 hours…should i call Anton and wake him up????

    cheers, david

  137. the grant is a celebration .. a celebration of new photography and people who are DOING IT..

    anyone shortlisted anywhere – the 10 or the 200 – is going to celebrate and we need to do the same..
    the encouragement they get will keep them with noses to the grindstone for years.. the encouragement behind the scenes from david – is JUST as great a tribute as ´winning´ anything.. will keep us going for years.

    at 5 or 6 am this morning david gave an honest critique of a promising young student i am working with.. and thankyou on his behalf david – the words will keep him going for YEARS: it´s more than you need do.. all of this is more than you need do..

    when you thank us for jotting mumbles, it humbles.. really.

    if there is one place on the photo-web where everyone wins, then it is here..
    i mean honestly – could it be that some take this place for granted? i don´t know..

    one thing about the forum here is that it IS NOT a normal forum.. there IS an over-riding desire to have a positive atmosphere.. the personal stuff detracts.. the too and fro of arguments is a BIG turn-off.. no those who post and more importantly for those who do not post..

    i´m as guilty as anyone of dragging things down in that past.. and i´m ashamed for when it has happened because this is an educational facility and a place of nurturing.. it is not a local newspaper.. not the tough world of publishing nor the pretentious gallery world.. it´s for learning, and if we all give of our knowledge it´s going to be a resource for the future which is valued as much as it is today.

    in my classroom there is a positive atmosphere of critical praise.
    some of the posters in here simply would not be welcome there – in fact they would be thrown out and laughed at.. bitter soup tastes foul in such places and ego is left at the door..

    GIVE WHAT YOU KNOW rather than express what you do not understand and we´ll all win through.. if bitterness is your bag and you get a rise from inflaming anger, this is not the place for you.. if you´d rather stab than caress think about why..

    it´s as simple as cooking, i think, and all the ingredient needs to be TASTY..

  138. AUDREY

    thanks for the comment.
    i showed a piece of work one of my students is doing today, which was directly inspired by your parents essay.. i´d love to show you some of what alex is doing.. although i could let him do it himself..

    hmm.. if you go to my facebook homepage, alexander left the second last comment..
    actually – will dig out his email and email you both..
    (for ***s and ****z)

  139. AND

    the finalist who dropped out of the EPF HAS ALREADY WON IT:::
    they have no barriers, conditions, excuses nor requirements..
    as with all who are photographing what they want to..



  140. panos skoulidas

    Jim, ALL…
    lets leave the essay alone and lets move into the BUZZ room…
    Jim with only one comment per person what about if i get enlightened and change my mind
    about the essay at some point?

  141. panos skoulidas

    ….Jim ,excellent idea…:)))))))))))
    write anything u like but $1 per post……….
    (for last year only i probably owe BURN around $10,000…

  142. panos skoulidas

    … and if we charge by the “length” of the comment…:)
    then bobb owes Burn around half a million bucks…?

  143. Could fund the gallery that way. First post is free, additional posts $1 each.

  144. Anything over the amount needed to fund the gallery gets credited to bobb’s account.

  145. panos skoulidas

    … u know Jim… maybe it started like a joke but it totally
    makes sense… if we want to vent or plug in our work and shows
    we should pay…
    viva America… land of the “nothing’s free”…
    love y’all…
    happy MEMORIAL weekend my fellow Americans….

  146. The first beautiful day in Paris this year…..The good weather got me thinking about Perpignan and Visa pour l’image…what about a Burn event down there in September, or even a gathering. It would be fun to meet folks on the forum in person.

    good night

  147. Panos/Jim ;)))))))))))))))))))))))))

    i think i’d owe BURN 100,000,000 ;)))….(maybe more for the 3 1/2 years at LS and year at Magnum)…wait until the photobook is published with my essays ;)))))…actually, i have a new essay to send to burn (maybe by years end): only words, with pics at the end ;)))…but, i owe Marina more, since i give her heart-BURN with all my posts and swings ;))))))))…..and Civilian too, since he’s one of the few that actually hikes through my posts ;))))…and maybe the only guy that read my entire ‘excerpt’ from Bones that Burn published…(excluding Lance, Patricia, Lisa and my wife, who read it all)…

    but i’ll take the extra credit to my account…by i still think i’ll be in arears ;))))…for years ;))))…i must buy Herve a bottle of red too, since i’ve given him head-aches for 2 1’/2 years ;)))..


  148. Jim wrote,

    “Could fund the gallery that way. First post is free, additional posts $1 each.”

    Burn operators are standing by…..

  149. panos skoulidas

    “burn operator” to panos…
    “… sorry mr skoulidas but your credit card just declined…
    try again later…”

  150. JIM..

    already took my mulligan for the month…they are monthly aren’t they??

    do not see the gallery making a profit…do you?? but if there is, then Burn throws a party…

    cheers, david

  151. DAH,
    Who was the photographer who dropped out? I’m interested and so is probably everyone else.. Or can he come forward? Would be interesting to know.


  152. A civilian-mass audience

    ANTON wrote:

    “… resist that urge…” .
    oups…I couldn’t resist :))

    I had to go find matches and LOOK what I SEE :

    LOOK1 I see BOBB
    LOOK2 I see JIM
    LOOK3 I see PANOS
    Here I am …among THE BURNIANS…WTF= We The Fire

    P.S THIS is one of the happiest moments of my life in BURNLAND !!!
    I received an e-mail, long time expected …
    THANK YOU BURN magazine…I am not a FINALIST !!!!!!!!!

    CAUSE YOU, all of YOU …NO matter what …YOU ARE !!!

  153. A civilian-mass audience


    I am in AWE !!!

    You owe me 2cents…hmmm almost one euro…Free ESL Lessons, or no?
    You owe MARINA and DIMA …a lifetime membership to the nearest SPA or something …
    My man, between I and you, I wish you can limit your postings to one page ( 300 words).

    Second thought…nope…WTF…you are DA MAN…We love YOU the way you are !!!

  154. A civilian-mass audience

    Welcome back MARTIN BRINK !

    The only thing that it has been dropped out are some BONES…leftovers from Bob’s essay!
    ( to be perceived as a joke)
    LOVE you ALLL

  155. A civilian-mass audience

    SHOOT BURNIANS !!!!go out and shoot!!!


    enough, I got to go find my matches…SHOOT damnit…I will come back cause

    Beyond Here Lies Nothin’

  156. A civilian-mass audience

    Even Mulligun is Jim’s idea?

    OIME…!!! You know…CREDIT WHEN CREDIT …

    like you

  157. A civilian-mass audience

    KATIE, street fighter



    I am so HAPPY for you !!!!!!!!!!
    GOOD NEWS FOR YOU …Got to go …Formula one in MONACO but YOU

    MRS.KATHLEEN FONSECA….PARTY partypartyparty !!!!!!!!!
    BURN with LOVE

  158. A civilian-mass audience


    “there are so many in our audience who are quite literally afraid to speak….they are afraid of being ridiculed or attacked…our comment section is not seen as a friendly place nor a place of thoughtful discussion by 99% of our readers who do not comment…..that is just ” DAH

    I DON’T CARE …

    DON’T be afraid…take the risk…you will cry the first few days

  159. BOB BLACK and DAH,

    I have emailed both of you with a first stab at a single-picture-and-extended-word-essay idea. Check your respective email boxes.



  160. david b

    it is never ending.. alexander has been on tv constantly for almost 5 months..
    he wrote the song himself.. i seem to know everything about him by default.. whether interested or not..

    happy for him – he is very humble and grateful.. and yes.. very everywhere :ø9

  161. and you audrey – the inspiration alex found from your work began the journey of photographing his family life..

    fantastic stuff when paths cross and you two can meet online..


  162. panos skoulidas

    David B, Audrey..:))
    Who the hell is Alex..?
    And about that Utube link above..???!
    Who is the guy with the violin
    singing a song in broken English to
    the people of Moscow..????

  163. Panos, I don’t speak about same Alex… Alexander Rybak is the winner in the eurovision and it would seem that David B is very proud it too!!

    Ps: wow, the Norwegian dancers raise very high their leg!!

  164. CIVILIAN…

    you always bring good cheer over here under Dialogue….since even more chat will be going on over here in the very near future, you will have an even larger role to play….hmmmmm, we need an official title for you…..i cannot think right now…you come up with your own job description please…


    welcome home!!

    i do not know if the photographer who dropped out as a finalist would want to be known or not…i will ask….i must say, a quite unusual development….but, the letter we received was an honest self evaluation…heartfelt…this photographer just did not think it was fair to be in the running with a project that this photographer no longer had the desire to pursue …as i said, a very honest photographer….


    one of the most interesting tidbits you revealed the other day was that you played blues guitar…at one point i worked very hard at blues harmonica….i liked the harmonica because i could carry my little blues Hohner (product placement) around in the bottom of my Domke bag (product placement) and could take it out and jam with just about anyone anywhere in the world with anything…now, imagine a Burn party with you on guitar , Panos on drum, Gracie on keyboard, and me doing some harmonica riffs…who plays base??? cannot survive without base….

    to hell with an online magazine…..let’s form a band…how about a bit of blues/country/rock?? across the country in an old school bus….document the whole thing …make a movie..book..make an album…arty cover….well, ok straight shot for the cover…sell tickets..pay for the gallery…jam session at the gallery…sell prints…take the money , buy gas, hit the road….damn, nobody can stop us now!!!!

    cheers, david

  165. seriously DAH …. i wld luv to volunteer to b the BUS Driver …ie well er …if i gt a driving permit fr the united states …. lol …. anyways … gt the beach house message … wld defintly luv to join u der …

    cheers vivek

  166. A civilian-mass audience


    hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm… THAT is the HAPPIEST DAY OF MY LIFE IN BURN !
    I had a meeting with other Civilians and we are extremely honored
    I am allergic to official roles…
    We promise though that we will keep BURNing
    and oime… We are so many…hmmmm:)))

    THANK YOU MR.HARVEY …you will succeed !!!

    P.S Mr.DAH can I play BOUZOUKI ? on the road…I am always on the road looking for the best TAVERNAS!!
    We can BURN UNSTOPPABLE :)))

  167. JIM…

    yes, that was a bit over the top…although i must admit that some of the Kesey, Thompson, Wolfe combo of thinking was interesting to me…i was raising two sons during that era and never tried LSD or was into the drug culture at all..Tom Wolfe was a Richmond boy as was Tom Robbins when i worked at the Richmond Times Dispatch, so all of those writers had a big influence on me….right along with my childhood Mark Twain, Hemingway etc etc…so the lure of the road was etched in pretty deep..but it had nothing to do with drugs in my mind….i did not even smoke a joint until i was over 30…the gonzo Hunter S. Thomson still resonates with me however….Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas sure got me out of Richmond and i still laugh at some of those scenes….

    cheers, david

  168. PANOS

    Happy belated birthday, dear one. May this new year of life bring good light, your Venice Beach book in hand, new LA Salvadoran photos (?), and lots of love!!!

    hugs & kisses

  169. A civilian-mass audience


    “If a man has a talent and cannot use it, he has failed. If he has a talent and uses only half of it, he has partly failed. If he has a talent and learns somehow to use the whole of it, he has gloriously succeeded, and won a satisfaction and a triumph few men ever know.”

    Tom Wolfe

    P.S WHAT not to LOVE !!!!!!!!!! 8 more keys to GO!!!!
    I’ve heard that Virginia nuts are the best! and ham too!

  170. panos – two alex´s mate..
    one, as audrey says, won the eurovision for norway and has sent this country into doe eyes praise as it was on constitution day of may 17th that he got it.. i remain ambivilant, although i love a bit of violin.

    the other is a student of mine who has been working hard on documenting his family since i showed audreys work in class back in september.. he´s got some cracking shots now and with a little editing and discussion over the summer there will be something grand for him to show on burn.. funny.. burn inspiring people who ultimately also have burn as a venture to display their work through :ø)


    cashews are THE king of nuts.. i though you would have known ..
    we´re all cashews here.

  171. A civilian-mass audience

    P.S I hope Socrates is not reading BURN …OIME …you guys DO not know where to stop…

    It’s a mess again in the “finalist room ”

    MR.DAH take your “polaroid” and get out and shoot …

  172. A civilian-mass audience


    I LOVE YOU MATE… I am looking for Tavernas…stay TUNED

    I call them NUTS…hmmmmmm…:)))wanna joint

  173. A civilian-mass audience


    WE are open 24/7 !!!

  174. Civi: for you…and then im done for the weekend…another part of something long i’ve been writing, which will be part of the book….

    FACES: Faces gather time along their edges, sprockets of light pitched around thumb-bowed shadow, the way milk rims the lip and bottom-dip of a glass, the way bone sedimentizes sentiment pitched from the age and voice of the earth, the way glass and stone color from exposure. We speak of time, we speak of faces, we seldom speak of how these cauterizes and coalesces into some odd unknowing. How is it that we distinguish one face from all the others? How is it that we speak of others and ourselves through an algebra of memory, speak of the faces that we have seen or known distinguished into certainty. What else is there in our knowing, at the heart of the well of our remembrance? How is it that we can ever photograph a face, for is it not the deceit (we believe we know another and ourselves by passing through the threshold of the face) that engines our operative waking? Is it not the very illusion under which we, photographers and non-photographers alike, negotiate and arrive each day we awaken and categorize neatly the arrangement of those surrounding us? How else, initially (and over recollected time) do we begin to work out an understanding of someone, let alone ourselves, then by quickly drinking up the constellation of meaning and unmeaning of a face. Recall someone: face or action, which do you see initially? Can a person’s behaviour and character and life remain faceless? To the contrary, can we not picture and construct a face without action? Then what about the blind, what is etched upon their skull and lithe memorial imagery? You should know I am blind in one eye and struggled as a child with un-seeing. At at early age, and often to my horror, i learned that each face is navigable but not attainable. In fact, I have spent the better part of my life trying to decipher what it is that I see when I look into the mirror: how is it that this chimera, this insolvable jigsaw is possibly me. When I became a photographer this became an ethical question: if I could not understand this revenant shell as me (my face yes, but surely not the “I” that is “me.”), how then to photograph someone else, let alone their face? I have not yet solved this quandary. For several years now, I have been working on a long project about faces, a personal journey apart from my other work in pursuit of that reconciliation. The project is embarrassingly Narcissistic. You should know the truth about this project. Every other project I work on, every roll of film that I expose, involves taking a few photographs of the subject faces, stripped of their context, their environment, stripped of all the surrounding earth-gravel and light-dust that we normally associate with photography, even at the risk of subverting the intent of the original projection I am working on. I often (only after people are comfortable) take a few extreme, close-up photographs, trying to get as close to people as I can, as if digging into a mirror. Soon, the disorienting calculus sets in: closeness, infinitely halved. Long exposures, focused, out-of-focus, short exposures, variable depths of field, all jostling in an effort to see how much can be removed in order to still retain the face of the “I’ or the “You.” And, I should add that I always photograph myself at least once each time before I unspool the film from camera and often for the last frame. It is a diary of failure: how far away, how licked-over-distance in the print of a smudge of space: breath between a barracks of lens and light. These photographs are a water-drop nub from this series, which is hopelessly large and seemingly endless. On good days, I think it’s the rhyme around which the rest of my photography and projects revolve and are resolved. On poor days, I feel that again I have failed to understand or properly photograph those faces around me. Failure is nothing new to any of us, and that principle is the nexus around which these simple images should be fingered. In some sense, they are different from most of my work: less and more. I continue to photograph even when I have not yet understood how to begin. Bereft. Beating. Brook. Fall upon me.


    Everything is always unfinished, always, its in the swallowing of that, sometimes with joy sometimes with exhaustion, that sometimes it begins to make sense…

    the swerve and curve of witnessing…

    nothing is ever finished, but often we stop or it stops us, sometimes gently sometimes cold…..

    twists of braided sticks of time….

    I face I


  175. who plays bass???

    I do (though you never seem to notice when I offer my help, David. Maybe this time….)

  176. A civilian-mass audience


    …”Can a person’s behavior and character and life remain faceless? “………

    What is the title of the book?? When is gonna be out? Can I have a signed copy?
    You have a way with writing…!!! KATIE is Bob your lost brother…?
    Nope…BOB you are really a gentle and loyal SOUL …BUT

    784 words count …FOCUS , my man Focus…it took me 36 minutes to read aloud …!!
    OIME 784…no kidding:)))))))))))))

    Nothing is ever finished…

  177. A civilian-mass audience


    …”Can a person’s behavior and character and life remain faceless? “………

    What is the title of the book?? When is gonna be out? Can I have a signed copy?
    You have a way with writing…!!! KATIE is Bob your lost brother…?
    Nope…BOB you are really a gentle and loyal SOUL …BUT

    784 words count …FOCUS , my man Focus…it took me 36 minutes to read aloud …!!
    OIME 784…no kidding:)))))))))))))

    Nothing is ever finished…

  178. I wrote to Patricia about it. But I must say, after the 2 first entries, I feel strange about the EPF taking such an important place on BURN right now (to the point it had us chaging posting rules).

    yes, it’s about photography, so what, you will tell me? But it just seems the grantees, finalists have no connect with BURN, and no connect with us. As far as grants go itself, no compliants with that, it’s as it should be.

    As far as BURN, since the EPF is given paramount “slot time”, I feel they don’t give a fuck where WE do give a fuck. Their prerogtaive, as Patricia replied. Yes, and my prerogtaive to no comment anymore on any EPF finalist who doesn’t pay us a courtesy call, telling us a bit more about themselves, in the cyberflesh, if you will, and how and why they entered the grant.

    If BURN is our baby, like you often say David, then our community should be acknowledged, just a matter of courtesy. There is enough indifference in the world like that.


  179. i´ll join or joint.. although the harder stuff, (feta, olive oil..), is in the past

    just back from the dentist.. part of my personal ´come-down´ from a past life..
    the last two weeks has been doctors.. ecg´s.. lung tests.. stress tests.. now have a bone infection in my jaw as my gums dissolved… god knows what they put in feta these days…
    codine laced pain killers tonight.. and no alcohol.. :ø/

    FETA IS BAD.. if that cheese don´t get you at the time, it surely will years later.

  180. hey – clarinet, sax, guitar and i play blues harmonica too..
    used to be in a ´band´ called ¨the love yo-yo´s¨..
    we were rubbish.
    i was terrible.. stupid..
    AM I IN?

  181. I just spoke with DAH and he wanted to let everyone know that he will be offline and traveling for the rest of the day. Anton is currently in the friendly skies somewhere between Tokyo and Belgium. I am currently working behind the curtain on bios for the upcoming finalists. David will likely post the next essay tomorrow morning. He knows everyone is waiting and appreciates your patience.

    I will also be painting my new edit wall with magnetic paint between emails. Does this stuff really work …?

  182. Herve,

    If you read the first string of posts on Jenn’s essay you might get the impressions that in light of the reality, there was essentially a witch hunt by some knee-jerk monster: first targeting her text, then targeting the legality of her effort, then targeting her own sense of humanity for the effort, then targeting her betrayal of the people that gave her access, then insinuating this was another essay that was a candidate for pulling, then and only then after loads of riot-inciting and finally learning the absurdity of his witch hunt, (about forty!!! comments later) did this monster even begin to offer up something mildly constructive and never an apology for the wild initial accusations.

    again, why the heck would anyone feel compelled to wade into that Herve? Jenn’s calibre of effort, talent, and direction warrants loads more respect than this. And i don’t know her personally, she could be a monster, but her works suggests otherwise.

    at the very least her time is worth more than this, it was simply more efficient to let the shoot-from-the-hip imbecile figure out for himself how absurd his ideas were, especially when there was no chance for an apology after the imbecile learned how obnoxious they were as has been shown in the past. Imagine the typing-frenzy-alternative to even begin to turn that loose-canon around once it got started? Would you enjoy that Herve? Actually you might, you love to argue, not a bad thing, but not everyone’s desire.

    the irony for me for this specific incident is that one of the best minds at Burn, Mike, actually stated in this same thread that this imbecile is not-polite, but spot on. Well Mike, looking specifically at this most recent effort and the effort you chose to defend, i just don’t see it that way, and i’ll never let you forget it.

    Basically Herve, we made the bed, we have to sleep in it, and it’s no wonder it’s lonely sometimes. Now this monster thinks he is doing us a favour by being so absurdly polarised, rude, and out right obnoxious towards each person’s work, but if we don’t get any interplay between the authors and ‘us‘ as an audience, who’s really suffering?

    And sorry Herve, this low-author participation is an epidemic that started long before the EPF, I think you’ll find it linked closely to the person that the one-comment-per-post was entirely instigated by.

    Kind Regards,


  183. And I remain disturbed at the ethics of exploiting people locked in an institution for the insane who don’t have the capacity to give permission for a photographer to walk through the doors of the institution that is supposed to be protecting them and use their names and images. It’s wrong.

  184. Her text makes an assertion that the criminally insane are being treated inhumanely in America without offering a single fact to back up that assertion. That’s just wrong.

  185. ¨I remain disturbed at the ethics of exploiting people locked in an institution for the insane who don’t have the capacity to give permission for a photographer to walk through the doors of the institution that is supposed to be protecting them and use their names and images. It’s wrong.¨


    oh god jim – are you talking about nightclub photography?

  186. ¨I remain disturbed at the ethics of exploiting people locked in an institution for the insane who don’t have the capacity to give permission for a photographer to walk through the doors of the institution that is supposed to be protecting them and use their names and images. It’s wrong.¨

    oh god jim – are you talking about nightclub photography?

  187. A Civilian- mass audience

    yes, you are doing Fine…I am going to bring some whiskey too!

    No feta cheese…Davidb you are lucky …you ended with ONLY a done infection…

    It’s INSANE here…what Not to LOVE ?

  188. mass(v) civilian r´spec..

    LUCKY is what i was.. toooo much feta when i could have stuck to brie.

    i mean.. standing in a nightclub, listening to stilton with my feet stuck to a chedder dancefloor while rushing from brie..
    it could have ended in a terrible fondu.


  189. got it jim.. added it to my collection of ailments and it´s settling in nicely with a white russian and small bowl of roasted cashew nuts.

    MAXIMUM LOVE to hillary for the most relaxing of strolls..

    hillary – thank you so much for the touching email.. replying now.. i wanted to mention it here because you are the first photographer gracious enough to email thanks for my insignificant mumblings under your work.. utterly humbled.

    there is real magic about your work..
    thank you.

  190. goodness me..

    don´t we all want the contributors of burn to come away with a positive experience?
    especially those who might already be feeling shy at the exposure of the EPF announcement?

    hillary and her email reminded me just how real the people showing there work here are.. how real we all are.. apart from civilian who is HYPER real.. HYPER kind.. HYPER real.

    off for the night.. gonna tuck in my mini baby bell and switch on the hi-fi.

  191. @ALL, most especially our fine host DAH…

    I have been quite absent from here for some few weeks, due to personal situations…but just wanted to wave hello to all before I try the long read to catch back up, I’m sure it will take some days….

    To make a long story short, which I can seldom truly do, 2 weeks ago my wife fell while we were roller skating at a friends surprise 40th birthday party…resulting a broken wrist and requiring surgery…thankfully I have not had to travel much while she is mending, but work of course has continued, and I had to pick up what she would do in order to keep the household running (no small feat with a 10-year old). In the evenign I’d say “I’ll just relax and read burn a bit” and before I could get to the page would be asleep in my chair…

    But she is mending well and things are getting more close to normal, and I am anxiously looking forward to LOOK3 and meeting so many of you with whom I’ve met here and there via our electronic interfaces….

    Still keen to be involved, as hopefully you know from past emails and backchannels – I know you were goign to email but also know you have been and continue to be swamped with preparations for EPF announcements, workshops, LOOK3 events, etc etc etc….so amigo, I will simplay offer to buy you a beverage or three while we are in C’ville, and will convey my ideas there….whether or not they are unique or of any use, who knows, but they are driven by inner passion, so I won’t let them go…only sidetracked for a bit…

    @LOOK3 attendees…
    Who has a list of who’s going? maybe one night a burn get-together? is this organized already, and if not, I will assist if anyone thinks it worthwhile….I’m arriving Thursday afternoon … reach me on facebook or email me….

    not ignoring converses rouge…just caught up trying to get everyone’s shoes tied in time to get to school! will post there soonest.

    good light to all … and don’t forget to pause and remember those that should be remembered this weekend…


  192. AndrewB
    I wish your wife a quick recovery.
    Don’t worry about converses rouges – you have your own share of shoes to tie it seems :)
    Best to you and your family – hope things are back to normal sooner than you expect.

  193. Jim Powers – you are in our face. I can’t even read your one liners – it compiles to a book when put together – you are attempting to dominate?
    Are you on steroids? blue pills?
    you are making this site mystical….

  194. Jim – ha ha ha.
    You are a gem. I thought I lost my feelings towards you. But, heck, even my vision gets distorted once in a while.

  195. As relatively little money and recognition as there is to fund new photographers, I hope some of the EPF finalists have new projects that haven’t already won other awards.

  196. Kathleen Fonseca

    Civilian Mass Audience

    *taking a deep breath, smiling, exhaling..*

    babe, you´re in. i am so proud. of your abilities, your heart and this time, your endearing humility. you earned your stripes, if not the title which you so graciously declined. you have no reason to stand up and shout. you aren´t a shouting kind of person. you´re a low laughter, deep in your throat kind of person, rich with appreciation and aware of the ironies and the egos and the posturing and the chests all puffed up and out, yet you love us anyway. what, what did we do to deserve you here? your home has been turned into a meeting hall and you are official master of ceremonies, but a master who chooses to sit down in the kitchen with the help and not at the table with the guests of honor. so the guests have come to you, all of us crowded in the kitchen, talking shit and drinking beer and ouzo and popping cahsews like they´re m&m´s. you´re in and as one of the kitchen help, i have to say i could not be happier.

    love, kisses and a hearty slap on the back

    katie street fighter

  197. Kathleen Fonseca


    I would like to thank you for the honor of providing whatever assistance i can, to the best of my ability, for as long as you want me, for…wait, hold on, excuse me…it´s my daughter, she´s just..wait, JUILETTE, IF YOU DON´T TURN DOWN THAT MUSIC I´M GONNA SMACK YOU SILLY, TIE YOU UP IN THE CELLAR AGAIN AND NOT LET YOU OUT TO GO BACK TO CLASSES AND YOU CAN JUST FORGET YOUR BREAD AND WATER TONIGHT…ok, so, where was i? yes, i was so humbly grateful for your comment about my mothering skills. In truth, being a mother is the greatest gift, the proudest job..wait..ok, this is it..JULIE, I AM COMING IN THERE WITH THE BELT AND I AM GONNA SMACK THOSE BRACES RIGHT OFF YOUR TEETH!!! I´VE HAD IT, REALLY, THIS MOTHER SHIT HAS ABOUT SENT ME AROUND THE BEND, YOU KIDS ARE JUST A BUNCH OF UNGRATEFUL FREELOADERS, NEVER OBEY OR TAKE YOUR ADVICE, COME IN AT 5AM, DON´T DO YOUR DISHES, THROW YOUR TOWELS ON THE FLOOR, TALK BACK, PIERCE YOUR BELLY BUTTONS AND WHO KNOWS WHAT ELSE AND NEVER SAY THANK YOU..I´VE HAD IT, I AM LEAVING HOME, GOING TO LOOK3 AND THERE WILL BE NO FORWARDING ADDRESS, DO YOU HEAR ME, JULIE???????..yes, ok i´m back now, well..as i was saying, being a mother is a humbling experience and my children are the best things i have ever done. What? Did you ask whether i will uphold the integrity of Burn and will i always be honest, truthful, moral and unafraid to say what must be said? Oh yes, as a mom, you have my word on it.


  198. Kathleen Fonseca


    *boohoo*..no, that Look3 stuff was just an empty threat. But shhhh..don´t tell that to my daughter..she really thinks i´m going; she turned that music right down and then ran around the house picking up her sneakers, her books, her drug paraphernalia, haha…just kidding..

    *boohoo*..i WISH i could go!


  199. @Eric – you will be at Look3? email me….

    gracie Gracie gracie wherefore art thou silvery peals of words deep in the night?

    knowest thou i imagined the words to keep me moving forward when dreary and dreading the day

    we must begin this exchange of technological for emotigriphal…learning both to convey the meaning through the lens

    silvery words indeed needed….

  200. A Civilian- mass audience


    My street fighter…hmmmm…have you ever seen the SUPER NANNY …TV series!
    I recommend the series for all the mommies !!

    NOW, Go back in the room and tell to our beautiful Julie HOW MUCH YOU LOVE HER…
    It’s just that since she came You had no chance to BE here…and Now you are BURNING!!!!
    Addiction is a weird thing…

    P.S LOUD family but they LOVE each other INSANELY :))))))))))))
    I am proud like a peacock :))

  201. A Civilian- mass audience


    I wish you and your wife the fastest recovery!!!
    When a wife is down in the house …hmmmmm…oime the whole house is down…

    YES, wish you speed recovery…I will take whatever HAIK said !!!


    COME ON …we miss you…You are in the band …and KATIE needs your ice-cream!!!
    Martin B you rock:))

  202. A Civilian- mass audience

    OIME !!!

    DID you see that we have a new BURNIAN!!!!
    WELCOME MRS.Cassandra Adams
    CASSANDRA Wrote:

    “… I have NO background in photography, so I won’t attempt to address the technical characteristics of your piece. However, I am working on my PhD IN CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGY and felt that you might welcome a different perspective…I think the piece is aptly named and the feeling of being trapped is clearly felt in most of the images. I have to say that I picked up on the jail context much more quickly than I picked up your ….
    My strongest critique is that, as a photographic CIVILIAN, I was distracted from the impact of some of the images by trying to figure out what was going on in the picture. I realize that abstract visual media can sometimes have a greater emotional…”

    WE NEED YOU HERE AND WE NEED so many BURNING SOULS that are wandering out there…

  203. A civilian-mass audience

    I just talked to Tom Young who have talked to Mr. Harvey and everything LOOKS good…

    They working very hard behind the scenes …
    rest assure that there have been no confirmation for the Fiji..
    at least not yet .

    Thank you for your PATIENCE …BUT you all know that is a ” VIRTUE” that you have to “MASTER”
    LOVE to WAIT !!

  204. Joe,

    thanks for a very sensitive response to my outburst. Sorry for using the word fuck with it, it was uncalled for.

    Like I said, as a grantee, jenn and others only need to submit their work, it is well understood. And it may be that there will be a few regulars in the last 8, after all. has David not told us he was impressed by the talent here, on and on again?

    I do wish it, as well as i wish there may be more iconoclastic choices, more risky, complete unknown, rather than just people who have been, so far, many times on the honor roll in the profession. David said he will tell us how his choices were made, in any case.

    Jenn seems to be sailing fine to me, not emerging! ;-) Mind you, anyone under 40, famous or no, could well be quoted as emerging, in a medium where old masters were often finally celebrated in their late age. The Magnum inductees, not quite members, are still emerging P’s, after all, I suppose.

    I still think that if the EPF is an integral part of BURN as a website (not just BURN members on one side, and EPF grantess on another, with David the only relation), there should be a little more input from the finalists. I would really like to hear if Jenn would use the possible grant to further the cause of publicizing the fate of these poor souls, and in general what any finalist would want to use the money for.

    Last, BUT NOT LEAST:

    I do think that in the realization and success of the EPF, David’s legacy and dedication to helping so many at the onset of their career, will find quite an occupation, as the years come by. Can some of you join me in convincing David that the EPF should soon really be called, the DAVID ALAN HARVEY EPF GRANT, Emphasis on DAH?

  205. A civilian-mass audience


    HISTORY may NOT repeated …!!!!!!!!!

  206. “Where is Lassal,Asher, Martin B, Abele, Tom Hyde, Paul T, Sofia, Patricia…?

    Where is ……., …….,……..,……..,…..,?


    Civiian, you do not even imagine how spot on you were with your “I NEED MORE BLOOD” comment. As is I am sitting more or less in front of Vlad’s (Dracula’s) house in Sighisoara, Transylvania. There is a spot with some internet reception on this square.

    Antonin Kratochvil’s workshop just ended and … what shall I say?! Guess I need some more blood too (and a lot of sleep)… It was a tremendous experience but now all I want is to get home and digest this. Instead I am the only one left of the group. My flight goes tomorrow … Enough time for one last dance with the old vampire.

    So much seems to have happened here on BURN! I am amazed! Will need time to catch up and read it all. Congrats to all of you who have had work published this last week. Panos, I hope your exhibition was a true success and I hope to find a link to pictures of it somewhere here … :-) BTW, Diego was here too … You should see him, he is doing freeclimbing and it really shows :))))

    Ok … will walk to the trainstation now. I am thinking of doing a multimedia piece of my work here … and if so I will need some more material. This is not the best place to sit and write comments anyway :)

    The next bottle of blood goes on me!
    Cheers to all and until soon(est)


    The donation button!!!!! Finally!!!!!! I will get to it as soon as I am back. Happy to see it here.

  207. A civilian-mass audience


    Do you play any instruments?Then, Mr.Harvey is looking for YOU:))

    Give our love to Mr.Kratochvil !!! VIVA TRANSYLVANIA !!!


    let’s send good energy and blood to Lassal !!! See you around, kudo…

  208. oh … and before I forget.
    For all of you who are going to LOOK3 (and the rest)
    don’t forget DAH’s B’day!
    We are having a dedicated Slovenian messenger to deliver our greetings from Transylvania, but I sure wish I could be there and hug him in person.

    Have fun partying yall!!!!

  209. Geez, the tiles fall off the walls when I start singing. But in fact I do have an harmonica. Love the blues. Why? Are we into musik now too?????

  210. A civilian-mass audience


    check this out:

    david alan harvey
    May 23, 2009 at 7:14 am

    “…let’s form a band…how about a bit of blues/country/rock?? across the country in an old school bus….document the whole thing …make a movie..book..make an album…arty cover….well, ok straight shot for the cover…sell tickets..pay for the gallery…jam session at the gallery…sell prints…take the money , buy gas, hit the road….damn, nobody can stop us now!!!!”

    When is Plato’s Birthday ??? I am making baklava and kataifi…desserts

  211. A civilian-mass audience

    Harmonica…I guess you are IN !!!

    WE ARE INTO everything, these days :))
    INSANE :)))

    I am going to buy beer …I ‘ll be back

  212. civilian.

    buy beer?
    on a SUNDAY?

    you, my friend, clearly do not live in norway… goddam god and his day of rest.

    not that i´m allowed to drink ..

    going to the beach to show tor capa the north sea.. perfect angry sky, blustery day..


  213. civi

    i think platos birthday is the day after d-day.. it was more excitement than his mother could take..
    or was it the day before?
    5th or the 7th june..


    “WE NEED A LIST OF THE LOOK3 UNIVERAL BURNIANS …!!!!!!!!!!!!!ERIC can help?”

    Wish I could Civilian but I am about to jump onto plane in about 4 hours and then I will mots likely have limited computer access for at about 10-12 days so would prefer another BURNIAN to pick up the ball… We do wish to meet as many Burnians though in Look3!!!!!



  215. HERVE…

    the EPF has nothing to do with changing the way we might post…you are pretty regular here and i cannot imagine you have not read all along the discussions on how best to monitor…it just happen to come up again on the Jenn piece….

    i think you might be confusing the word “emerging” with the word “beginner” or with”entry level” photographer…..emerging in my mind is not an entry level or beginning photographer, but one who shows extreme promise but is not yet significantly published or exhibited…

    Jenn is quite clearly emerging….she has no books or exhibitions…

    these are the lines in my mind, how i think and how i define emerging and how most of us would define emerging….

    the jurors will have their own decision to make which is one of the reasons why i took myself off of the jury for the actual recipient…i think the best definition of emerging is obviously in the mind of the photographer submitting …i doubt any photographer who felt they were beyond the “emerging” stage would submit for an emerging photographer grant…..yes, there is 10k on the table…but when i went through all of the names of photographers who submitted i did not find one single entrant who i felt had crossed the line…

    cheers, david

  216. Hope everyone in the states has a great Memorial Day rest of the weekend..good shooting, family, picnics or all of the above for those of you who seem to thread it all together seamlessly.

    DAH, will you have the chance to shoot for Family on this holiday?

    peace and productivity to all…


    at the very hour (literally) Robert Capa was trying to keep the water off of his lens on the beach at Normandy , is exactly the hour i was born …it was 8am in France on the 6th…but around 11pm in San Fransciso on the 5th….

  218. oh, and I was looking at Smith’s Dream Street Pittsburgh Project again last night..I couldn’t help but wonder how he would have applied the funding if he had a 10K grant during his time there…he did a heck of a lot in a year without the additional monies but was going into greater debt making 17,000 negatives and working on it non-stop..but it was through 2 Guggenheims that he was able to bring that giant mass into a coherent publishable form.

    Someone said they would like to hear how the epf finalists would use the money, and if those people have concrete plans that would be interesting to hear, but from my (negative rich and money poor) perspective, the money is ever so important foremost because it allows you to keep working on something you’d have to abandon..

  219. Bad example. I think the only magazine that would publish Smith’s efforts on the Pittsburgh Project at the time was Popular Photography. Smith thought that he was as good an editor as a photographer. Others didn’t agree.

  220. David,

    You are one of the most sentimental big guy I know. Sentimental macho is more correct :)

  221. A civilian-mass audience

    Jim when is your B-day? Is Smith’s effort your cup of tea?

    Sorry too many questions, so little time!

  222. Jim, Popular Photography was the only one at the time that would allow him complete control over the layout, but how is a bad example, and a bad example of what? I was wondering how Smith would have used the money in the shooting of the project.

    It wasn’t that no one would publish them, it was that the other magazines were unwilling to give up control.

    “Smith and Magnum began approaching potential publishers of the project in 1956. Many magazines were interested, including Life, but none would agree to his demands for editorial control. He rejected several offers of up to $20,000 for rights to the pictures when his terms of publication were not accepted.”

  223. David, Smith wasn’t an “emerging photographer” by any means at the time of the Pittsburg Project. He wouldn’t have needed grants to get the photos “together” if he hadn’t let his ego get in the way.

  224. Jim,

    bad example of what?

    Smith could have benefited from grant money to shoot the project..he was assigned it only for three weeks and stayed a year to his own financial debt and detriment.

    Possibly you are right in that his dependency on alcohol and amphetamines, along with his his self doubt, made his editing skills less than they should be, but it seems the major pitfall was that the essay was best represented in a form other than that of a magazine spread.

    “The published layout in PP was mostly Smith’s design, but he was extremely dissatisfied – devastated – with the result. The magazine, as a form, simply was not a suitable vehicle for the complex essay that Smith had envisioned.”

  225. Nonsense. Where are you getting this revisionist history? The layout was bad because Smith was a terrible editor of his own work.

  226. ERICA…JIM

    “if he hadn’t let his ego get in the way”……hmmmmmm, strange analysis considering that without that “ego getting in the way” we would not have one of the greatest essayists of all time….

    editing and layout are two totally different things…

    LIFE did have real editors….but, name one??? only name to come out of LIFE at the time is Smith from an historical perspective….

    however, i can easily imagine Smith being a bad editor….the issue is complex

  227. If you think this is revisionist history, take it up with the following people, centers and Universities.

    Sam Stephenson, the chosen individual to edit DREAM STREET: W. Eugene Smith’s Pittsburgh Project, published on occasion of the exhibition organized by the Carnegie Museum of Art with the participation of the Collection and Smith Archive at the center for Creative Photography, University of Arizona and through The center for Documentary Studies in association with the W W Norton and Co. Stephenson was awarded a NEA to continue his work on Smith, and is a writer and researcher at the center for Documentary Studies at Duke. And from Alan Trachtenberg, a Neil grey Prof at Yale, author of Reading American Photographs: Images as History.

  228. Kathleen Fonseca


    (wo)man, i love it when you kick revisionist ass! eeeehaaawwww, ride ´em cowgirl!

    happy shoot-em-up in da cit-tayyyy!!!


    and hmm…very interesting discussion on Smith. i am ashamed to say i only discovered him this year through the books ¨Fat Baby¨ and ¨The Blue Room¨. I like The Fat Baby sooo much. I am really interested in knowing more about him now. Thanks for greeting me with this discussion this morning.


  229. A civilian-mass audience


    you DA MAN too…what happens is that KATIE, our street fighter NEEDS her cup of coffee in ORDER to function properly …Hmmm…

    Thanks for being so nice …:)
    Maybe we will have: 3 down 997 to go ???

  230. Kathleen Fonseca


    haha..so right! dopey me..my eyes are still sleepy…but still a super interesting discussion and Minimata gets sucha great endorsement from you all i am going to hunt it down, thanks!


  231. Kathleen Fonseca

    CIVILIAN ****

    hahahaha, i didn´t see your post yet when i said i was still sleepy…i´m just giggling here because as usual, you NAILED it! coffeeee…COFFEEEE…wheeerre´ssss my COFFEEEEEEEEEEEEEE..maid? maid? damn, can´t get good help anymore..if you want a cup of joe you gotta actually make it yourself..i mean, what the hell?? now see what she´s done, Civlian? She made me look like an idjit on the forum! Eugene Smith, Eugene Richards, i mean, one Eugene is the same as another Eugene without caffiene….*runs off hollering MAID MAID, DONDE THE HELL ESTA UD????*

    (****satire alert)


  232. KATHLEEN…

    i need to give you a reading list…only if we are all on the same page with the most basic history of photography can we even begin to have discussion here…i am not chastising…it is just a truism….the digital age has brought with it a whole generation of photographers who can do technically what the older masters could not do, but with no knowledge of what the masters did do….unlike practitioners in all of the other arts, photographers do not seem to feel compelled to get a handle on the big picture…very little referencing …… in the last few years my students come in to a workshop having spent a lot of money on cameras , air tickets, hotels, etc etc and just have almost no reference points….curious to me…a new phenomena for all teachers….anyway, i will send you by email soonest what i want to be a helpful reading list…..before i do that , please send me an email with what you have read and studied and what you most want to get out of your work…

    cheers, david

  233. Kathleen Fonseca


    ohhh..ok, now, yes, of course i know of Minamata. i have often seen ¨Tomoko Uemura in Her Bath¨, Unfortunately the book is out of print and Amazon has one for $416..but, i am fascinated with the Pittsburgh Project..why wasn´it ever finished, i.e. why was a book never done, even now? Is it now his family that keeps that from happening? i don´t understand..the work sounds monumental..how frustrating that it would not be in print..



  234. I have been fortunate enough to have seen an exhibition of Eugene Smith’s work “Let Truth Be The Prejudice” in London some years ago. It was a Tour-de-Force. Kathleen, at least one book of the same title is available.


  235. Kathleen Fonseca


    Oh yes, i totally agree with you!!! I have a lot of catching up to do and in truth have invested great sums in money and dedicated a lot of space and also time studying photography books. Yes, i will send a list and greatly appreciate you filling in the blanks for me and making recommendations. My slip-up this morning is that honestly i have only superficially encountered W. Eugene Smith and know far more about Eugene Richards because i have two of his books..ok. a list shortly..thanks for your interest!


  236. Kathleen Fonseca

    Mike R

    You´re right, there is a copy on Amazon for 49.95 which i can definately manage..thank you soo much!


  237. Many times quantity doesn’t result in quality. Fueling an intense project with booze and amphetamines probably doesn’t result in your best work.

  238. A civilian-mass audience


    Reading list…reading …???
    oime…I am going out for sangria …I ‘ll be back

  239. Or you can go to your local public library, Kathleen, and if they dont have it, they’ll get it for you. The Brooklyn Public Library has two copies of Smith’s Dream Street: one at the Crown Heights branch and the other at the Central Library. Now, I dont live anywhere near Brooklyn and I think the copy sitting on the lamp table next to my bed is the Central Library’s copy, and I got it because I asked the nice folks down at our happy little burg’s public library to get it for me. Actually, they gave me a very strange look when I came in asking for a book. Much of modern library work seems to center around keeping kids from looking at porn on the public computers; someone actually asking for a book seems a bit retro to the employees these days. That being said, I will concur with everyone else and say that Minamata will blow your socks off. As for the Pittsburgh project, I dont think the fundamental problem was Smith’s editing skills or his ability (or lack thereof) in laying out his pictures; the fundamental problem with the project, as someone above mentioned, was that Smith had too much to say and not enough space to say it in. You can’t cram Proust’s In search of lost time onto a single page and have it make sense. Smith should have done Pittsburgh as a book. And not that anyone asked, but my vacation went well and will soon be ending. I did go to the wicked city twice this past week; I saw no Burnians in my walks through the great metropolis, so I assume all of you were out of town enjoying the sunshine in less crowded circumstances.

  240. David, you need to give us all a reading list ;-)) Something I’m still holding you to …

  241. Kathleen, I have a small book “W Eugene Smith 55” ISBN 0-7148-4035-1 which is a good introduction to his work. It is part of the 55 series of photography books published by Phaidon.

    The book describes how he received a commission from Stefan Lorant to spend three weeks photographing Pittsburgh and producing 100 prints for a book. He spent the first month wandering around and reading the city’s history: without taking any photographs. He then spent the best part of a year in Pittsburgh, taking more than 13,000 photographs, and then spent the next three years developing prints and layouts. His obsession with the essay almost bankrupted both him and Magnum.

    He obviously thought than no one else could edit the essay and he was right: how could anyone else even attempt the task? By the same token how could anyone publish such a task except, perhaps, in book form?

    A brilliant photographer but a walking disaster zone as far as personal relationships were concerned. One of my heroes (I don’t have many).

    See also “W Eugene Smith: Shadow and Substance” by Jim Hughes


    “Let Truth be the Prejudice: W. Eugene Smith – His Life and Photographs”

    by Ben Maddow and John G Morris.

    Best wishes,


  242. A civilian-mass audience

    AKAKY(****satire alert)

    No wonder why all my best friends name start with AAAAAAAAAAA


    LOVE YOU ALL…start reading …I WILL be BACK…no kidding

  243. Akaky has a point about Smith’s work. It doesn’t hold together well if you start picking and choosing among the images. While there are a number of images that are outstanding as single’s hanging on a gallery wall, he was first a story teller and some of the problem, indeed, is that the Pittsburgh Project is just too big to present as such. His own attempt at editing was a failure that not even he was happy with. Actually, the magazine format – as practiced at Life and edited by Life editors- was the best format for his work, in my opinion.

  244. I’ve been away for a day, lots going on, hard to keep up.

    David Alan, with regard to the “one post” issue. I guess if that’s what has to happen. My hesitaiton about that format is that it is very hard to follow Buzz and other dialoques unless you are on them constantly. Discussion of the essays just gets lost.

    I totally agree that comments under the essays and selected photographs can get way off topic, and way out of hand.

    There are folks out there who just like a good argument. Even if you don’t want to read them you still have to wade through them, and it does set an often angry tone.

    Perhaps we need Monty Python style Dialogues with doors marked “arguments” and “abuse” or “whining and ranting”

  245. Kathleen Fonseca

    You guys are GREAT! Thanks sooo much!!


    Unfortunately i live in Central America and the main library in the city has been closed for repairs for the last 10 or 12 years..i get my books mainly on trips back to the US and hand carry them along with fast film back to CR which is no small feat and great hell on spinal columns. And then it´s hard keeping them from rotting in this awful humidity. I run one dehumidifier in the room that holds my books anbd another in the closet where i keep my cameras. My photo books and my cameras are my dearest tresures.



    Yes, Manuel Alvaro Bravo is incredible..i do so agree with you!

    DAH and JIM (and ERICA though she is not here right now)

    Yes, it may be that ¨Dream Street¨(Pittsburgh Project) is not Smith´s best work but there is something about the time in his life, the upheaval, the dysfunction perhaps due to substance abuse (?) that intrigues me..such a prolific amount of work, 11,000 negatives…such dire circumstances, such compulsion..this fascinates me somewhat, to see the work and feel his state of mind at the time. i do wonder..of course one must be able to perceive his mind and emotional state through his work. It would seem that the project bears seeing if only as a document to this period in a great photographer´s life..to give relevance and perspective to his other work. I mean, now you guys have intrigued me so much about him i am not going to rest till i take a great big bite out of his ouvre.

    my sincere thanks to all and i do mean this..why you put up with my frequent faux pas i will never know :))


  246. KATHLEEN…

    you are quite correct that the study of all of the turmoil that surrounded Smith and the Pittsburgh work and the whole editing process etc is worth thinking about…by the way, where do you live in Central America if i may ask???


    i just posted a new finalist essay..let’s see if the one thoughtful comment per person works…it just seems like it would make our site a bit more meaningful and relevant if the selection of work was matched by a more thoughtful selection of comments…again, this is totally self monitored…i delete nothing…let’s please remember that this was suggested by Jim who is the most prolific poster of all, so if he is willing to do it, why shouldn’t we all??? anyway, let’s see….take a look at Simona, think about it, write about it…many thanks

    cheers, david

  247. JIM…

    i don’t see it…where?? i can take it out in a sec…we always have that until we have everything in and i was waiting for Simona bio…tell me, tell me and i will delete..thanks

  248. Richard Andrew

    Am I incorrect in thinking/assuming that Burn was going to be a venue or a passageway for unknown documentary photographers?? I am a little disappointed that so far two out of the three finalists so far are completely contemporary artsy, with choreographed posed obscurity. There are so many other places with that kind of photography, and very very few for up and coming “real-life” photographers. There is so much more interesting real world happenings out there that isn’t being shown or encouraged. I don’t mean to sound close minded with that last sentence, but c’mon… There are so many great unknowns out there risking their lives sometimes for honest striking photography that get shadowed out by some pretentious “artist” who feels the need to communicate their troubled feelings through heavily photo-shopped b.s. Wow, that was a run-on. Anyway, you know what I am saying. What if Sebastio Salgado was 20 years old today, trying to shoot and become known? It would be a lot harder for him to get noticed, and may never get noticed. Imagine all the great HONEST imagery being shut out by someone with a camera who obviously needs their ego pampered. I know I sound like the old man on the porch, but I was just really hopeful about meeting some new Salgado(s) through this site, because I know they are out there. I will just have to keep on relying on old faithful for that- Magnum.

  249. Kathleen Fonseca


    Yes, i was thinking that if the Pittsburgh Project was atypical of Smith´s work then that is where i wish i could start. It would tell me a lot about him. Photographers and artists are not faceless people to me. I always want to know about who ¨they¨ were or are, their successes as well as their missteps, their development..their lives matter to me and this Project, and what you all say about him as an editor..this is all very very interesting to me. He must have made people just absolutely insane. This kind of obsession, this unbelievable need to ´say´something that never ends up being said the way he felt it needed to be said. I feel this frustration in his mind deeply within mine. It´s strange. This is my reaction. I must know more about him.

    I live in Costa Rica.

    There is a great space available to do a workshop (hint hint)..it was a gallery, in the historic wonderful arty part of the city, the only block in town where people have any artistic sensibility. What beautiful, beautiful space. In case you ever had fantasies about conducting a workshop in a new place :))

    love ya!

  250. David, I did refresh. But, it seems to be gone now.

    Richard, I agree with you. But David wants eclectic, and it’s his party. :)

  251. JIM…

    ok, got it….


    yes, you are incorrect in your thinking that publishing unknown documentary photographer’s is my motive…

    you are also jumping to conclusions about what i am doing since you have not seen all of the photographer’s i will present as finalists…

    my goal now and always has been to publish leading edge photography of all kinds….i have so stated my eclectic tastes from the very first day of BURN…

    there are many kinds of “honest imagery”…both from artists and from documentary photographers…why be so narrow in your evaluation of what is “honest”????

    you will meet a NEW Salgado through this site…but, you will not meet someone JUST LIKE Salgado…we already have Salgado!!!

    and yes, i do go way beyond on BURN where Magnum has traditionally been…Magnum photographers all bear witness…..Simona goes beyond this…and Simona is not in Magnum nor would she get in Magnum with this work…but she does earn her living as a documentary photographer with the journalistic agency Contrasto which is a sub-agent for Magnum in Italy….this is her personal work, her real passion…why not let the woman fly and explore and just BE who she wants to be????

    i do know what you are talking about Richard….i respect traditional work and you will see it in the coming days…Jenn, published just before is certainly traditional and would you not imagine the next photographer might be as well????

    please again refer to the Szarkowski’s “Mirrors and Windows”….an old traditional book and exhibit…but with a view that all of us are going to see the world in different ways, either through a window (straight documentary) or through a mirror (introspective)…Simona is obviously looking in the mirror…..

    please do not join the ranks of the cynical..such a sad mistake…open your windows and get some fresh air…it does not mean that you have to like everything, but at least know the menu and perhaps get a sample of something you may not have heretofore “tasted”….

    cheers, david

  252. Well, David, I figured you would slip in Post Modern sooner or later. Certainly nothing wrong with Simona’s technique (but of course, there wouldn’t be at this level of competition), but I’m just not a fan of self conscious, self referential photography. Unless symbols are universal, you end up talking to yourself.

    You get points for mixing it up, though. ;)

  253. Richard Andrew


    I appreciate whole-heartedly the fact that you have spent an un-imaginable amount of time in creating this site and allowing ALL photographers a chance to show their work. That being said, I also want to say that in no way with my last comment did I accurately convey that in fact I do appreciate other forms of imagery, I just thought Burn was going to be different in more ways than just the layout. And by layout I mean the fact that I can speak in real time to you, the curator. I also need to tell you (so that you don’t see me in an incorrect light) that it would be a mistake to incur the notion that I would not want Simona to be able to express herself. I think it is great that she can do that, here or anywhere. I do however, tend to have strong opinions about what photography is and what it should be. Just my opinions, remember. This site is wonderful, don’t get me wrong, but is a rarity these days to find a place that absolutely shines on those who photograph things as they are happening, and showcase the true talent and vision associated with that. To me, that is the true judgment of a “photographer”- one who has the gift of stopping time in such a way that differentiates his/herself from any other human who has ever held a camera… at the same time educating those around them about the subjects they are witnessing. When someone painstakingly arranges props and people to create a “scene”, to me that is just a cop out for someone to lazy to paint. I admire those who stop real time in such a way that makes me hold my breath. These are just my opinions David, I know they are strong. I really love this site and will continue to visit it. Thank you for all you do. I wish all the entrants the best in their paths. Thank You for allowing me to speak.


    the jurors will see a good cross section of what young photographers are doing today…some more subjective in their exploration, some quite traditional….i do not expect everyone to be a fan of one thing or another….i merely want to synthesize the best of the different styles that were presented to me….i just happen to sincerely like an eclectic mix, but i know surely that not everyone here will…

    i do not understand all of Simona’s references here since she is exploring her childhood dreams…i had very different dreams as i am sure did you….but, i find it absolutely fascinating to travel in her world…i have not been there, but i haven’t been lots of places….

    again, the jurors, also an eclectic mix, will make the final decision…and even that is going to rankle either one school or another….

    cheers, david

  255. RICHARD…

    i take the time to write to you because you are giving your instinctive heartfelt response…and your comment is well taken…i was just trying to give you some perspective on my motivations etc for BURN…i think when the dust settles, you will see a pure documentary photographer here who will be working on the highest levels of the type that stimulates you most…..but, your vision of what photography should be is fair enough…many of my colleagues in Magnum would feel exactly as do you….

    i must say i do not see Simona as being “too lazy to paint” although her background would certainly indicate that painting has been a great influence….and i do not even think it an irony that she is quite a good photojournalist which you can see if you study all that she does…..

    you are most welcomed here Richard, and this is exactly the type of discussion that i encourage….

    cheers, david

  256. you know, what I really want to see someday is some EPF winner take the check and then blow it all in Vegas on booze, blackjack, and blondes. Not going to happen, though; there’s lots of terribly earnest people in this neck of the woods.

  257. I just hope someone wins it that isn’t going to use it to spend time hand painting precious artifacts. We already have enough artifacts.

  258. JIM,

    let’s have the winner handpaint precious artichokes instead. Then we’d have art that was not only good, but good for you. ;-)

  259. AKAKY…

    yea, i know what you mean…when it was cold last winter, and i already had the funds in hand, i thought of doing that myself from Nassau…i thought, hmmmmmm, maybe i could run this 10k right on up to 100k with a nice role of the dice…but, alas i just gave in to some old fashioned moral obligation…

    hand painted artichokes??? well, Jim is a vegetarian, hmmmmm

    by the way, i am ready for your next picture/text essay combo…any interest??

    cheers, david

  260. Kathleen Fonseca


    ohhh!! i like that list already, the second or third one down is Michael Ackerman who has had a very strong influence on me, along with William Klein and Helen Levitt..thanks for the link, Jared!

    besos y abrazos


  261. MR HARVEY,

    I am trying to figure out whether I want to do St Patrick’s Day in color or in b&w. In b&w the essay would be vaguely Winograndian in nature: street shots of the passersby doing the sort of thing one expects New Yorkers to do at the St. Patrick’s Day parade. I expect Jim will not like this essay because it will not reflect the highest standards of photojournalistic truth and Panos won’t care for it because I am, yet again, laying the contrast on with a trowel. With color, on the other hand, one gets close ups of the marchers and the passersby, in addition to the picture of the girl with the big rubber hooters full of beer. I expect that Jim will not like this version of the essay because there are no pictures of girls out West Texas way wearing big rubber hooters full of beer and Panos will be annoyed that I did not get the girl with the big rubber hooters full of beer’s name and phone number. And, of course, the prospect of sitting down at the desk and watching the blank sheet of paper taunting me as I try to think of something to write is almost too horrifying for words. So, yes, I am interested, but I am also procrastinating, which is something I’m fairly good at.

  262. Come on, Akaky, you could have used your ONE POST to say what you thought of the photographers work! All target practice at me is supposed to happen over here. :)

  263. Context, Jim, context. Here I would have to explain what the wisecrack was all about and if you have to explain the premises of a joke before you tell it, said joke will not be funny, as someone is going want to know what the hell you’re talking about. On the other hand, of course, Simona is probably wondering what the hell natural blondes have to do with the subject of her very serious essay and no doubt thinking that questo posto e pieno di pazzi, posto e pieno di pazzi not being a government sponsored plan to mail pienos from a town called Pazzi, which is what I thought it meant at first. My brother explained to me later that this was not the case (he speaks Italian-I dont).

  264. I haven’t made my ONE POST yet… but in the meantime I will join in here just to say that while I am so grateful we all have the opportunity to express ourselves with photography I am just NOT into quite a bit of the work that is posted on burn….as a VIEWER.

    Not to say there is anything wrong with it or be disrespectful at all. It’s just that no matter how hard I try, a lot of fine art photography does not do for me what photojournalism or straight documentary photography does. The “creative personal work” I see so much of here doesn’t excite or “move” me the way it does most who post here. With much of the work here I am happy for the photographer who has enjoyed making the image, I wish them well. Hope they have a great career if that’s what they want, but for me to spend time trying to figure out what their images mean (to me, to them, to whoever) doesn’t interest me. There are too many other images out there to find and look at which DO thrill me. I saw the PDN photojournalism winners this morning and can’t get them out of my head. GREAT work. Nachtwey et al.

    I wish I could remember his exact words…I had an acting coach in LA years ago (Charles Conrad, the BEST) who compared certain acting performances to someone in a rainstorm peeing in their raincoat…the audience wasn’t invited to share in their experience. They were having the experience right in front of us but we couldn’t see it (I know that is a wild analogy but think about it for a second before cringing) I see some very well made photographs but for whatever reason, they don’t invite me in, don’t make me WANT to experience them deeply. If I’m somehow not hearing the invitation (deafness?) I can accept that but either way, it’s just not happening for me. Looking forward to seeing the documentary work mentioned above.

    Jim, I give you a lot of credit for hanging in here and taking the abuse. :))

  265. ‘è’ would be the correct word, Akaky, as ‘e’ without ` has a different meaning, but i’m sure simona would understand nontheless..

  266. I know there’s an accent somewhere there, Eva, and I know there’s a way of getting a PC to make such marks, but I figured no one would blame me for not being a stickler about the grammar of a language I dont speak ;-)

  267. Cathy, that’s my broad problem with Post Modern photography. The photography itself is either self absorbed, or the photographer is constantly saying “look at this thing I’ve created.” Ultimate, when I’m looking at the photo, I’m interested in the subject, not the photographer. Make the photo a window onto something, not a mirror reflecting the photographer.

  268. @Gina
    sent you an email. As I posted yesterday, I’m willing to help organize a get together or even just a list of who from here is attending…let me know if I can help in any way.

    good light to all,

  269. @DAH
    Add me to the list of those wanting a suggested photography reading list…as erica knows, I am likely one of the most ignorant here when it comes to such things….and a good list is a great place to start.

    good light,

  270. Well I missed most of the discussion on W. Eugene Smith but he was one of my earliest influences. I can remember as a kid going to the library and looking at Country Doctor, Spanish Village, Nurse Midwife and others over and over. Even today thirty years later and viewing his work hundreds of times, I still get that feeling in the pit of my stomach when I view his work.
    I can also say how terribly disappointed I was when years later I learned how he manipulated some of his images in the darkroom. It sure took the wind out of my sails when I found out on what was one of my all time favorite Eugene Smith photos, Spanish Wake from the Spanish Village essay, he bleached out the eyes of one of the family members, and penciled them in so the were looking at the deceased instead of at the camera. I will say he did a good job, I know I must have looked at that photo a hundred times and never caught it, but once it was pointed out to me, that is now where me eye goes to every time. I am surprised his name hasn’t surfaced before in some of the ethics discussions on Burn.
    Still to this day he is one of my favorite photographers, but lets be glad Eugene never got a hold of Photoshop.
    If anyone is interested there is a great book called W. Eugene Smith Shadow & Substance, The Life and Work of an American Photographer by Jim Hughes.
    It is out of print but well worth reading if you can get your hands on a copy.

  271. CATHY..

    i think if you take the time to look carefully, you will see a balance of both “mirror” and “window” photography here on BURN…the photographer posted just before this, Jenn Ackerman is classically documentary but i do not recall a comment from you about her or any of the other straight documentary photographers presented here on BURN of late…or did i miss a post???

    funny that you would see Jim taking abuse, when most see him giving it….curious….

    cheers, david

  272. JIM,

    Regarding your comment…”Make the photo a window onto something, not a mirror reflecting the photographer.”

    I forget who originally said it but David often repeats that an image should be BOTH window AND mirror. I agree with that concept but it’s easier said than done. As you say…photographers can fall into many traps.
    Too much window and it’s predictable or mediocre, too much mirror and it can be self absorbed.

    What to do (as photographers) other than walk the razors edge and keep trying? :))
    Says Cathy after walking back and forth from a Lowrider car event that was cancelled due to rain. :((

  273. Kurt

    Interesting, I was just thinking to myself today, Smith would have adored photoshop and embraced digital instantly. No more screwing around with potassium ferrocyanide. A couple of swipes with the dodge tool in highlight mode and wham bam.
    The whole point of doing what we do is to communicate what it is we want to say. Who cares (except for the purists} what the hell you do to an image. Whatever you need to do to make it work.

    I understand the problem with reportage. But Smiths work was more than reportage.

  274. Gordon, I have no problem with burning and dodging, or for that matter using Potassium ferrocyanide to lighten parts of an image to draw attention, such as he did in Mad Eyes from his story on Haiti. But to remove the eyes and repaint them in, I have a slight problem with that.

  275. DAVID,

    Interesting that you bring up the window/mirror example just seconds before I post a comment about it. I didn’t mention it previously…Jim did.

    As far as Jim being the giver or recipient of abuse…to tell you the truth I don’t read much of the comments these days so I really don’t know who is doing what to whom. I tried to keep up with reading the conversations in hope of educating myself about the work that’s being shown here but with all the bickering and off-topic conversations I sort of gave up and dropped out. I do look at all the images and comment from time to time. I’ve also been in DC for the past week so perhaps have missed a post or two…I subscribe by email so will check.

    Perhaps I’ve got it wrong but I see Jim as one of the few people who are sticking around to express a different point of view from the majority. That makes him a target for anyone who feels they have to “defend” something.

    I just hope everyone is enjoying themselves!!! Viva la difference!

  276. Kurt

    I agree. Although in group portraits, I often swap heads. Is that cheating? I just came back from the Epson Print Academy workshop in Vancouver. Jean Paul Caponigro said he is often accused of “cheating”, his response is “who’s game are you playing?”

  277. just a a note as I wouldn’t want andrew b’s comment to be misunderstood..I am a huge fan of the printed book and they have been a very important part of my education as pretty much a self-taught photog – and andrew has a big interest in expanding both his knowledge and his collection of books, so we have been talking about what should be in his library..

    I just looked at mine last night and had the sense of it being time to add a few more; LOOK should have a good selection of things I wouldn’t have thought of. came home from there last year with Irish Travels, Tinkers no More by Alen MacWeeney..sheer brilliance, check it out

  278. CATHY…

    i am really looking forward to your lowrider pictures…i am so pleased to hear you are still working on that project…good for you….

    yes, you are quite right, there CAN be way too much self absorbed work these days…there is a very fine line….as in all areas of photography, some are simply more successful at it than others…but, in this case, i think that if a photographer wants to explore childhood dreams then the “mirror” will rule…nevertheless, what would you want hanging on your wall at home?? one of these intriguing images or a photojournalistic reportage?? personally, i will take #2 or #19 for my wall..

    John Szarkowski brought up the “mirror and window” concept almost 40 years ago, not Jim or me….

    i do not see a “majority” point of view here…i look very carefully…seems to me like every possible point of view represented…..and i am always looking for even more….thanks for yours…

    cheers, david

  279. AKAKY…

    ahh yes, i totally forgot your St. Patrick Day pictures which i liked very much…let me get through all this EPF work and then i would like to run that story…i think we should edit it down a bit..i will do that with your permission and send you a screen shot for approval…ok with that?? or we can skype and edit together..either way just fine for me….

    cheers, david

  280. I’m hoping that the next essay is for the under nines……… it would be great to see someone shooting stuff for that age group

  281. OK

    Favourite books, Y’all gotta check out “Suburbia” by Bill Owens. This classic has been re-printed and is available for about 22 bucks on Amazon. Classic classic documentary, medium format, non-judgmental straightforward stuff about ordinary people (in the seventies) one of my all time favourites. check out his site and his current stuff, especially the movies. Hysterical stuff.http://www.billowens.com/

  282. DAVID,

    Yes, John Szarkowski was the name I was trying to remember when writing Jim above. Thanks.

    I will hope to hook up with the lowriders another day. Their cars are now so valuable they won’t bring them out if there is any chance of bad weather!

  283. David

    Owens was a big influence on me. It seemed to me he had no particular agenda or judgment, but just wanted to present people as they were, and let them tell their own stories.

  284. Yes, the mirror/window thing is certainly not original. Photography has such an incredibly rich history. It has been amazing to have seen its development since I became interested in it as a 10 year old getting close to 50 years ago. It was an exciting time to be a photographer.

    David, you just need to publish a reading list here on Burn.

  285. CATHY…

    “Bad Weather” was the name of Martin Parr’s first book….in black & white…


    will do…


    me too..but, then Bill disappeared…went from recognition for Suburbia to running a bar….some photographers have only one thing to say…at least he knew it….


    i think we should all be exchanging book lists….i try to keep up , but i miss some….


    i will be sure to have a book list for you in C’ville


    sure let’s do something in San Jose or wherever…….i cannot remember the name of the old hotel where i stayed in the middle of town, but a nice hang spot…and i only know the Caribbean side….ended up once in a small town on the border with Panama full of drug runners and various other colorful characters…any excuse to spend time in that part of the world is just fine with me….i can never stop shooting in those places…maybe others would feel the same….

    cheers, david

  286. The book I’m saving my pennies for is Larry Towell’s The World From My Front Porch. His Mennonites book blows me away every time I look at it.

    Mind you it’s going to take a while to save up for it. Last week I had Fairfax email saying that they were reducing contributor fees by 15%, for the good of the company of course (insert irony emoticon here please!!)….

    Another mag emailed today to say they were holding three of my articles over for another month or so because of falling revenues. It’s a bit of a bugger when you were counting on them!

    Still on a brighter note, I’ll be picking up my first ever Holga negs in an hour or so, so have my fingers, arms and legs crossed!!

    I spent a couple of days in our capital city photographing a bunch of teens building a “slum” to live in for the World Vision 40hr Famine. They organised everything themselves, and found/scrounged all the wooden pallets, cardboard and tarpaulins to build there temporary accommodation.

    Their aim was to demonstrate (in a minor way) the conditions many people must live in. The weather was windy, cold and wet and I tell you what; they were a bunch of genuine nice kids. And I mean “nice” in a good way, not as Billy Connelly would say as in “beige and boring”

    It certainly restores your faith in human nature to know that there are caring teens/youths coming through.

    Cheers everyone!

  287. DAH – i am totally drawing a blank – who is our mutual friend who lives in Guanajuato?

  288. Pete Marovich

    Hey David,

    Just making sure you got my reply to your email about what the book was about. I am still in D.C. for Memorial Day and wont be home until Tuesday.

    Thanks again!

  289. LOOK3 ATTENDEES – who sent their email – thank you. i am down here in mexico now – will be back later next week and start organizing something around the LOOK schedule. gmartin@ngs.org

  290. Way, way back in the old ‘Road Trips’ days I posted my own rather extensive booklist… only there were no photo books per se on it! It was a list of journey, travel, adventure, ‘sense of place’ books, both fiction and non-fiction, going back to classical times (remember the discussion about Xenophon’s Anabasis?). While it’s often said, and certainly true, that many pictures are worth a thousand words, might it also be that words can create pictures in the mind that we then try to find manifestations of out in the world, and attempt to capture in our camera?

  291. The 70’s ?? Oh yeah novoflex ,photo gram drums and flares , I can see why it would appeal ,
    I made my one post and for once found myself agreeing with you Jim but i have to call you on 1972 being a technology high highwater mark? Ferrocynide makes my skin blister, eyes water and fingernails brown and digital has saved more that one shooter with induced eczema from dropping out of the profession.
    But 1971 did give us Larry Clark’s “Tulsa” and 1975 Gene Smith’s “Minamata”.

  292. The book I’m saving my pennies for is Larry Towell’s The World From My Front Porch. His Mennonites book blows me away every time I look at it.

    Mind you it’s going to take a while to save up for it. Last week I had Fairfax email saying that they were reducing contributor fees by 15%, for the good of the company of course (insert irony emoticon here please!!)….

    Another mag emailed today to say they were holding three of my articles over for another month or so because of falling revenues. It’s a bit of a bugger when you were counting on them!

    Still on a brighter note, I’ll be picking up my first ever Holga negs in an hour or so, so have my fingers, arms and legs crossed!!

    I spent a couple of days in our capital city photographing a bunch of teens building a “slum” to live in for the World Vision 40hr Famine. They organised everything themselves, and found/scrounged all the wooden pallets, cardboard and tarpaulins to build there temporary accommodation.

    Their aim was to demonstrate (in a minor way) the conditions many people must live in. The weather was windy, cold and wet and I tell you what; they were a bunch of genuine nice kids. And I mean “nice” in a good way, not as Billy Connelly would say as in “beige and boring”

    It certainly restores your faith in human nature to know that there are caring teens/youths coming through.

    Cheers everyone!

  293. david AH

    well then.. my copy of life mag, june ´44 would be cool for your birthday parcel.
    but you cannot have it.. tor capa would not tolerate it… :ø)

    right – playing catchup.. reading

  294. hi peeps and civilian,

    been busy, figured would have missed about a post or two but *NOT* TWO HUNDRED AND FORTY EIGHT posts !!!

    @kat, you are just the … such a… very… great mom!! (wink)
    @civi, please ignore the feta cheese ie davidb
    @jim, looking closely at your posts recently.. glad youve got smileys now. waiting for cuba in the mail. thanks for the tip ;)
    @andrew b, kisses on mrs.andrewb’s healing splinters and you for doing the dishes. ive missed you too.

    @herve and all, well, i dont play any instruments but i think i can be your singer… been busy in las vegas working on those (what do you call them in japan anton?) karaokeE!!! i might just go back and practice more…

    tomorrow should bring good light — my spacecowboy told me.

    oh btw, happy 21st bday DAH!! wishing you more gusto and happiness as you gain more experiences about people and yourself… enjoy.

  295. A civilian-mass audience

    you are DA MAN … I will BURN my wiki…from now on I will CUT AND PASTE only from YOU
    THE HAIK !!! if you can update Wiki…hmmmmmmm… what else YOU can do !!!!!?????

    Thank you Gina Martin! LOVE your skills!! Everyone LOOK3 for Gina

    I am still looking for your reading list…You were born inside the books…

    “If you want happiness for a lifetime – help the next generation.”
    Chinese Proverbs quotes

    loves ferri/bromide coctails …IMANTS, hates them

    P.S Don’t mess with HAIK…He can change HISTORY

  296. A civilian-mass audience

    TOR CAPA would NOT tolerate…:))

    THANK YOU !!! YOU are the only BURN MUSE..WE COUNT ON YOU !!!!

    KATIE, THE street fighter,
    what takes you so long …?????????????????????????????????
    Juliette …we need HER back here…or maybe there…
    I’ve heard that BURN IS GOING TO COSTA RICA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    and GORDON wants the COUCH…AOUCH …:)))

  297. A civilian-mass audience

    MIRROR MIRROR on the magnetic wall

    BURN is the WINDOW of the WORLD …


  298. if you can update Wiki…hmmmmmmm… what else YOU can do

    I am looking for Akaky IRL.

  299. A civilian-mass audience

    IN YOUR HEARTS !!!!!!!!!!!!

    VIVA ART !!!!!!!!!!
    VIVA BOOKS !!!!!!!!!!
    VIVA CIVILIANS- non photographers!!!!!!!!!!!

    P.S welcome back Cathy, and I PROMISE …NEW BLOOD is coming
    VIVA BURNIANS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    MR.HARVEY for your birthday I will FED-EX some souvlakia :))

  300. A civilian-mass audience

    My Gracie where is Katie ???
    Did you forget the Ice-cream…she loves ice-cream…!

    oime, you talked to Spacecowboy…!!!!!!!!???
    Is he coming…WILL WE EVER MEET ..???????????????????????????????

  301. my last great find in a second hand bookstore in Eumundi, first edition of Don McCullins “The Destruction Business” another choice 1971 era tome for 12 bucks ,even had a review from the Australian December 1971 tucked in between the pages

  302. Thanks David
    Tried them but for some reason those book stores won’t ship to Australia………… maybe our economy is in only partial recession and not all the way. I have it on order via my local books seller and he can’t get a decently priced copy.

  303. Glenn

    I picked up a copy of the same book from a library sale. Not sure what edition though (am not at home at the moment), but pretty old and tatty. Have you got his “In England”? Great book. His autobiography Unreasonable Behaviour still gives me the chills when i read it, especially the bit where he is in one of Idi Amun’s jails….

    My favourite; “No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child.”

  304. I guess I’m like others, David, in that I just can’t see the merit in funding the kind of work in Aftermath. You want to give her $10,000 to continue to explore her childhood fantasies (although, they seem to me more made up from whole cloth)? I’m not sure navel gazing should be rewarded with grants. Not when there are so many photographers who need funding.

  305. MAQROLL..

    letters went to all but the final 200….


    the jurors may feel the same as you…most likely will feel the same as you…i am not quite sure how one determines who deserves funding and who does not…is a photographer with one motive and style more deserving than another?? pretty subjective stuff which is the nature of “choice” in the first place….i think even you would agree that it would be a bit uninteresting or boring if all finalists were photojournalists….as i mentioned before , Simona earns her living quite successfully as a photojournalist, but her passion for producing a book lies in this more reflective interpretation of life around her…

    my motive now is to present a clear cross section of the best that was submitted to me from what young photographers are producing today…the passions and creativity and aspirations of the next generation…i tried to choose the best that i saw based on sheer creativity and talent and the success of image making….my opinion is of course not unassailable and BURN, the EPF, and everything contained herein is just like when i go out with my camera and take a picture…choosing one angle, lighting, and moment are totally subjective as you yourself have written…nothing more, nothing less…

    just trying to do my best Jim to keep the fires of photography burning at a time when so many young photographers feel lost in the sea of mediocrity and with no place to turn for either funding or guidance or any kind of home….

    you and i had Life, Look, Natgeo and a whole host of newspapers and agencies to strive for…tangible outlets for our work….in all of my conversations with the young photographers today, they do not feel this sense of viable outlet….BURN cannot solve this of course…but again, a brick in the wall is better than nothing at all…

    i do thank you for being a voice here…it is heard….i value an honest strong voice with which i might disagree more than a gratuitous pat on the back….


    i spent several hours yesterday working the magnetic wall…helping to put together a book for Medford Taylor now titled Silent Journey….five coats of magnetic paint will do the job….only two coats and you will have magnets all over the floor…just thought you might like to know

    cheers, david

  306. A civilian-mass audience

    Thank you Mr.Harvey,

    Actually I am good …I messed up my walls and finally I called some professionals …
    Magnetic walls in Greece…hmmmm…go figure…:(

    Thank you though …I bet TOM YOUNG will find the above info very helpful !
    TOMMY…. DAH is hereeeeeeee.!!!!!!!!! Tommm…wake uppppp.

    I have a strong voice too and a strong pat …go figure..Civilians , we strong…

  307. “the jurors may feel the same as you…most likely will feel the same as you”

    So the idea was to select the artist as a finalist so her work could be displayed on Burn even though you figured she wouldn’t win? That could have happened without being a finalist. I understand what you are trying to do with Burn, but I can also understand 1,000 people with serious, ongoing projects who submitted work to the contest looking at this and thinking, “What the hell?”

    Yes, my bias toward documentary and PJ work is obvious, but isn’t there already enough of this moody, self-referencing fine art already out there?


    one thing about the internet crowd…nobody has any patience!!!

    of course you will see some powerful photojournalism to balance out the strong subjective work…do you really think i would do otherwise??

    please wait until all 10 (maybe even 12) finalists are up before you jump on me for not choosing this or choosing that….please….

    speaking of jumping, i must jump in a car and drive home….offline for a few hours

    please be of good cheer….

    peace, david

  309. I can’t believe that so many still believe this is a forum for documentery and pj photography only. David has clearly time after time that it isn’t. And there are 10-12 finalists so why complain now? after only three… I have no problem with people complaining after all the finalists has been announced and maybe I even will do so myself..

    About burn…

    “Your interpretations may be either journalistic in nature or esoteric subjective pieces. I hold all artists in high regard. With me as editor/curator you need never think “what does he want or like?” I will push you to do your thing, not mine…”

  310. DAH..

    ok good,

    and above all thanks for the energy you put in here and for some of your pictures which don’t leave me.

  311. It’s probably easier to do subjective stuff these days be it art shit or photojournalist stuff……………….objective photojournalism is hard to find these days. Books are easy to do these days a great narrative that has real bite needs the money

  312. I agree with Martin Brink. And told the same thing before on the discussion about the first EPF. The statement was clear, as repeated by Martin.
    So, as to make this forum a way to deep and healthy criticism, it is better not to answer anymore to repeating criticism. I was dragged in myself to counter the hundred times repeated message, thinking to be able to open space here for good discussion. Stupid.

    Maybe there should come another forum for healthy and indeep talking about photography Something like “philosophy” or…

    And leave the rest for this one?

  313. Maqroll, how exactly do you define “health criticism?” The phrase is used a lot here, but it seems to be defined as trying to say you don’t like the piece while surrounding that opinion with gushing praise for the work.

  314. imants,
    There’s not such a thing as “objective photojournalism”. Every time you press that shutter you make subjective choices. However I think I understand your reasoning anyway.

    Yes, of course they are. EPF is a grant from burn and I quote again..

    “Your interpretations may be either journalistic in nature or esoteric subjective pieces. I hold all artists in high regard. With me as editor/curator you need never think “what does he want or like?” I will push you to do your thing, not mine…”

    Nuff said..

  315. JIM…

    no , i do not come to the same conclusion as you on that score…i just wanted to show the best of the best..as simple as that Jim….i just cannot run a second rate photo-j story in favor of a really great subjective essay…i just cannot do it…i looked at a thousand entrants…i chose what i thought were the best ones no matter what “best” meant…my coffee table has all kinds of photography on it…my walls have many different styles….i really like and appreciate many different works…basically i like excellence in all things……photojournalism is really important..you know that i know that..but, it is not the ONLY THING in the world of visual communication…BURN was NEVER meant and never will be meant to be an outlet for photojournalism only….the jurors will be just as eclectic as my choices here…

    ok, i must drive…can’t wait to get to Southland gas station restaurant…Carolina barbeque…damn, that and a chocolate malt…i keep meaning to do an essay on the folks who hang around Southland…i felt really good one day when i pulled in there with a borrowed Ford 150, but now i am driving down with Medford in a Toyota sedan which is almost illegal down there…

    enjoy your holiday…

    cheers, david

  316. Thaddeus Pope

    Hi David,

    I’ve received an email confirming that I was not chosen as a finalist, but I was wondering whether it is still possible to have been included in the final 200?

    I’m sorry if this question seems a bit dense, but I was slightly confused by something that you wrote earlier: “letters went to all but the final 200….” Does this mean that if you received a letter you will not be included in the final 200?

    Hope to hear from you soon.

    Best wishes,


  317. “objective photojournalism”………. well if we use subjective the word objective has a place

    Every time you press that shutter you make subjective choices ……….. some just let it rip and make a choice after the event

  318. Thaddeus Pope

    Hi Imants,

    You say that “some just let it rip and make a choice after the event”, but surely isn’t that a subjective choice?

  319. imants..

    i´m working on the road for the next 7 weeks.. around norway and balkans.. will remember though and next time i have an address, and if you still need it, i can order for delivery to norway and post on.
    unless someone else here could pick up a copy of ¨storylines by frank¨ and post sooner?

    DAH & magnetic wall lovers..

    the magnetic wall is driving me to distraction today..
    been staring at it for 6 hours.. and there are still 60 6 by 4´s when today i need 30-40..
    photos of the wall on my blog later.. later.. it´s driving me nuts though.. really.

    on an up-note DAH – a friend suggested combining ´decade´ and ´wasted´.. for the title ¨a wasted decade´ or ´a decade wasted´… and i quite like it for now.. will have a few sleeps on it.. wondering – it may be a little negative biased for the story – which is the whole world dancing to the same tune, as it were.. but then again.. perhaps the irony is well suited to the chaos..

    and, or course, i was very.. very.. very wasted for more than the 10 years.
    3 times very wasted.
    now 4 times.


  320. ANd

    objective / sujective phot journalism..
    i guess the photographers waiting outside downing street to catch the prime minister step in dog shit are doing so objectively.. and in other areas of ´hired eye´ and ´fact recording´ journalism people are doing the same.

    generally though, i think subjectivity is unavoidably attached to PJ work in these knowing days..
    i mean.. by way of example.-. some people still go to n. ireland to make it look like the war is still on.. and there is fighting.. yes.. but no more than in birmingham on a friday.. in which case – no matter how objective their ´troubles´ pictures appear, overall they must be working from a subjective viewpoint.

    daaaaavid, (avoiding the magnetic wall, which is tearing the fillings from my infected jawbone)

  321. AND

    if you have 52.32 minuets to spare.. ANOTON.. why not join me on NYE 2007, at home with radiohead.. living in the past.. with my magnetic wall.. there is no avoiding it now.. must away..

  322. thaddeus –

    yes that is correct…. if you have recieved a letter you are not in the final 200

    …sorry for the confusion on that point!


  323. Pete Marovich

    Hey DAH, Say hello to Medford for me. I would love to sit down with him sometimes and hear more stories. His presentation at VNPA was excellent.

    Drive safe!

  324. David

    Well… My commment IS and should be only a compliment to Simona.

    It’ mean I love documentary photography and I wish to see as Strong and good documentary essay as Her. What will be difficult probably.
    it’s mean that even documentary essay will have trouble to satisfy me as Simana’s did.
    Even if it is not my cup of tea, or par of shoes.
    But this is my mistake that I am not clear in what I write.

    BTW I never know when you are lost your patience, and you are angry and when you write someting like that…

    peace :) (friendly sign)


    I hope your comment was not striglty to me because put Burn into documentary box is my last thought.
    I love any kind of photography.
    I understand any kind of photography.
    But documentary I love most.


  325. Kathleen Fonseca

    David Alan H.

    The hotel was probably Gran Hotel de Costa Rica. During the days of CIA and the Contras in Nicaragua, that was THE meeting place for both spies and Pj´s covering the struggle up in Nicaragua. It is still nice, it´s been refurbished actually. I shoot a LOT in the Plaza de la Cultura right beside it. It´s absolutely the heart of San Jose which is the heart of Costa Rica. You were probably in a beach town named Manzonillo on the Carribbean (?). Did the beach have black sand? And were some guys playing dominoes and others the banjo and makeshift instruments of undefined origen? well, *sigh* drug running has certainly gotten more serious and problematical in the last several years. Very serious. Very problematical. On both coasts and yes, the frontier with Panama is extremely flamable. Actually the towns on the southwest Pacific coast are now the places where you can ¨feel¨ the weirdness. i don´t know personally because i tend to be a city girl. But i have heard that the atmosphere down there is mmm..dysfunctional to say the least.

    It´s the rainy season now so clearly a bad time for any kind of workshop but in December the summer starts. Let me know what you think..workshops are not something i know even one thing about.

    And thanks for your response. I do not skype but have an 800 number on a computer line that you call from a regular telephone and it´s free for you. Let me know and i will give it to you.

    Ok, best, all…


    sorry, i was zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz last night..and now i am workinggggggggggggggggggggggg

    love to you both!


    keep reading..let´s hear it for auto didacts!!!!!!

    best to ALL

  326. :ø)

    haha – welcome home from japan my friend.. beate is out in 1 hour.. will feed tor capa and leave skype on if you´re free.

    ALSO – is it me or has the ONE COMMENT RULE worked?
    lots of new names i think..


  327. @ david b
    “A Decade Wasted” – love it!

    I loved my one visit to costa rica. A getwaway to CR for a week or so of shooting with someone who knows the local areas. heaven….

  328. MARCIN,
    No, not at all. Actually I haven’t read your comment. It wasn’t to a specific person. It was to all the people who doesn’t seem to understand what burn is about or simply have misunderstood it.

    I almost added a PS,
    but realized I would be breaking the rules:)
    I also LOVE #17…
    lots of stories in that one image…

  330. thodoris –

    yes – cross check was done if someone (also) had an essay in the top 200. so if you received a letter, none of your multiple submissions are in the top 200.
    we would have loved to be able to do reply on a “per essay” basis, but apparently that was technically not possible… and a reply “per person” was the only other acceptable alternative.

    hope that answers your question,

  331. hello admin!

    i’ve not received the email, that’s mean i am in the top 200… and not in the top 10?
    sorry for the dull question…

  332. SHOOT!!, i just wasted my one comment on the essay! I meant to post it over here! Oh Well, Live By the Sword, Die by the Sword.

    Ki, please come over here to reply to my plea for more information.

  333. DOP IN POP..

    i think there is a ‘wild card’ chance to still get into the top ten, since one of the snappers graciously stepped down.. i guess that’s right, in any case..

  334. AKAKY: Do you skype?

    AKAKY IRL: Do I what?

    AKAKY: Do you skype?

    AKAKY IRL: Not that I’m aware of. Do you skype?

    AKAKY: No.

    AKAKY IRL: Oh. [Pause]

    AKAKY: [Pause]

    AKAKY IRL: Was there something else?

    AKAKY: No, that was it.

    AKAKY IRL: Well, that was short, wasnt it?

    AKAKY: Yes, it was.

    AKAKY IRL: We must do this more often.

  335. david b –

    no worries mate – gotta run to a late nite meeting right now…

    ps have some good news: ALL my yakuza images got the two thumbs up when i met the Soichiro last week to go through them. and I gave them lots of prints as well… ah yes yes… finally the slideshow-preparing and fund raising can begin :o)

    want some porridge a an early night too – seems like bliss

    top cat go!

  336. A civilian-mass audience

    TO ALL,

    ***Porridge, or porage, is a dish made by boiling oatmeal (rolled, crushed, or steel cut oats) or sometimes another cereal in water, milk, or both. It is usually served in a bowl or dish. Other grain meals boiled
    Porridge was a traditional food in much of Northern Europe back to antiquity. As the traditional breakfast of Scotland it is made with salt.

    I It was also commonly used as prison food for inmates in the UK’s prisons.

    Hmmmmm….BEATE RUN back home … Davidb,Anton with his thighs and Soichiro wanna kick top cat OUT!!!

    ENJOY your DAY …and don’t forget the polaroids.
    For those who are not finalists …
    I AM PROUD !

  337. Thanks for replying, David, yesterday. None of what you have done and chose, concerning the EPF is questionable. It makes perfect good sense.

    I was just thinking a-loud, and reaching from the back of the class, that where the clowns, the dunce capped and “zero de conduite” reside, maybe a bit too loud …. :-)

    On the new “Salgado”, understanding in public resonance not style, of course: this is a tough one to predict, to put a finger on. The accolade bestowed by the mark of time and final/durable public, not just professional, recognition is a very rarefied field (any art and many other disciplines). It is impossible to know who will have left her/his mark (not even Salgado maybe? And maybe a total unknown who found his/her Berenice Abbott?). IMO.

  338. @david b

    well, even if i’m not in top 10 that’s result is much more than i’m expecting. i will die happy… :)
    but it is not clear if all the top 10 had received the letter yet

  339. Davin Ellicson. The logic behind your comment under Simona’s EPF entry, totally escapes me. first I thought you were pestering after the fact that the reason to become a finalist was a foregone conclusion (like: “the profession has spoken already, thanks DAH but what’s the point?”), then in your last sentence you seem to tell us we should merely rubber stamp the judgement of the professional insiders, and have no opinion, no comment but theirs.

    Maybe someone or some wrote the pictures were “not good”, i do not remember reading that, but that’s the only reason I’d understand you writing this.

    As for liking, we can’t just be all alike. It could very well be that the profession finds a relevance in some work, of the kind that is not a preoccupation of people outside of it. Plus, the politicking that David mentionned when it comes to give out awards may have played in the awardings. Etc…

  340. Actually, I don’t think that Davin understood that Simona won her recognitions with her documentary photography, not fine art.

  341. Honestly, neither did I, Jim. i read the entry text last night, but mea culpa on my part: this morning, I only remembered she had been given this recognition, not for what work, when I commented. It changes very little, except that Simona comes up as an even more very impressive photographer.

  342. panos skoulidas

    Just made it to Venice Beach..
    Question: what makes humans so attracted to crowd bathings?

  343. Oats: A grain, which in England is generally given to horses, but in Scotland appears to support the people.

  344. Cathy Scholl (EPF post)

    This work may not be my cup of tea but why should Simona or anyone other than myself care to know that?

    Oh, no, not again…… :-)

    what makes you think, Cathy, we participate on BURN for the sake of the photographer reading what we write? Just an 8 letter word hint why we may do it: C O M M U N I T Y.

  345. Herve, are you saying you are interested in whether or not I like Simone’s work? :))

    What I should have said was that the more interesting comments (to me) are the ones where there is more than “I like this” or “I don’t like that.” The images have brought up some amazing conversations over the YEARS (!!!) we have been hanging out here which is a good thing but whether I like it or I don’t like it is not of great importance. Otherwise we could just have two boxes after each essay, yes and no and all vote :))

    I’m not saying we shouldn’t give our opinions but rather that I like a more detailed explanation as to WHY we feel the way we do.


  346. Gordon,
    Thanks for mentioning Suburbia. It’s on my wishlist.
    Reminds me of the film Revolutionary Road…Winslet/DiCaprio the dark side of suburbia.

    Is someone compiling a book list? Could it be permanently featured on this site?

  347. I just only now recieved a letter stating that I am not chosen as a finalist, but the letter states as well “However, many of you are in the top 200 essays that I would love to publish on Burn this year.”

    Does that mean that I am in the 200 list or not? Sory, but I am not native English. It is confusing to me. Thanks.

  348. Okay Cathy, but I think we should have another rule for the essays (EPF or not). All reproaches on how people respond belong to the DIALOGUE/BUZZ section. That too, we owe to the featured photographer, but also to all the readers.

    There has been already 3 comments there that are not doing anything but criticizing writers. Akaky, Davin and yours.

  349. For KAT FONSECA

    The e-mail address that you left on my “uc” Pbase site, does not work. I tried to write you there, but got the “MAILER-DAEMON” message….

  350. Manuel Garcia

    Well I guess that if we are not among the final 200, which are quite an amount of essays, our work it is not interesting for Burn statements, and thats dissapointing cause I find hard to change the way I feel photography. It would have been nice being envolved in this project that sounds so good,, for the rest of you that are still in , I wish you the best.

  351. “… five coats of magnetic paint will do the job….only two coats and you will have magnets all over the floor …”

    Now you tell me … laughing … okay, more paint.

  352. manuel, Burn and the EPF are not the same, but I’ve expressed concern about this already. It seem to me that, after the 10 EPF finalists work is shown, David has enough other essays that were entered, including the 200, to monopolize Burn until the next EPF. I would hate for Burn to become nothing more than a showcase for those who entered the EPF.

  353. Kathleen Fonseca


    Oh, really? must have done a typo..it doesn´t matter though..this was from the other day and well, you know how the internet is, time stops for no e-mail..

    thanks anyway, Herve!

    back to worski..aargh!


  354. Manuel Garcia

    Jim I cant see such a diference, since the works to be published in Burn are chosen by the same people that picked the EPF essays. So seems to me that all its gonna be about two o three people, most respectable by the way , deciding who is in who is not. Which is fair enough on other hand,,they set it up so they rule it ,,, it is their play as you said before… Wouldnt be beutiful let the Burn audience decide?? I think unfortunatly that migth be impossible as well

  355. I guess that in a way, the only thing unique about Burn as an internet magazine is that it is a reflection of the mind of one man and his vision – David Allen Harvey. If he doesn’t choose the photos and essays, then it might as well just be just another collection of web galleries.

    But there is a limit to how much one working photographer can give to the magazine, and a real limit to how much work can be shown in the current format. Burn is new and different and hot right now. It’s the toy (and I don’t mean that in a negative sense) of a famous photographer. And because David has made a career of a certain kind of photography, I’m sure a lot of people who check the site out are a little baffled (good and bad) at what they find.

    And I think the biggest wall is that this magazine is on the Internet, and the time David wants to give each photo or essay on the site, with the current format, is very limiting. Either those who submit their work are going to get tired of waiting for it to appear, or those who visit are going to get tired of waiting for new material, or perhaps a combination of both.

    But, yes, the number of people picking the photos are going to be very limited. By necessity. How that plays out in the long run there is no way to predict.

  356. Jim,

    with “healthy criticism” I referred not to the works of others published here. I just proposed a new blog where we don’t talk about someones work here or about practical things, but about subjects like there were already mentionned, “Mirror and window”, or “What about earning money with essays about poor people?” or “What is documentary photography?”, etc.

    This could be interesting as many of us deal with those questions.

  357. Rafal Pruszynski


    I dont know if thats true about people getting tired. I can speak from both sides. When I was getting ready to have my essay publsihed here I did not get tired of waiting because DAH was very good in how involved he was with helping me edit and I knew when I would get published. As a viewer of Burn I also dont get tired of waiting because it really isnt a lot of time for the roll over of old and new material. 2-3 days isnt that much to wait. I didnt get a letter about being out of consideration so I assume Im in the 200, so its a bit of a nail biter to see if I will be in the top 10, but thats fun. And if I’m not, its not a big deal. I suppose that project I entered could also be criticized by you as not needing funding, but theres a LOT I could do with the money to help me drive the project forward, just as Simona. Just because it isnt PJ doesnt mean it can be done on the cheap.

  358. Rafal, success is going to make the process longer and harder. Obviously with the EPF, he has at minimum a couple of hundred essays he finds outstanding right now. I don’t know how DAH is juggling everything. With plans for the gallery in NY, etc., at some point he is going to have to hold Burn in one hand and his own work in another and make a choice. Even Harvey isn’t a superman! ;)

  359. Rafal Pruszynski

    I think he already said that next year there might not be an EPF. And as far as the gallery goes, let’s hope it works and pays for itself. I just think DAH has thinkgs cooking in the oven that will eventually make it possible to let Burn run on its own with less input from DAH himself. Financially and otherwise.

  360. Pete Marovich

    Hey all. Can someone explain this letter thing that is being discussed. I cant seem to follow the conversation by going back and looking at the older comments. What letters?


  361. Well, if i had known you’d respond with sarcasm and off-handedness, Kat, I wouldn’t have bothered. I though it was the polite thing to do to let you know I rarely open my uc site, just saw your comments today and e-mail you right away, but to an apparently typo-ed address.

    Maybe your Grande Dame of BURN new status allows you to wave people off with a tired wave of the hand.

    haha, indeed…

  362. Kathleen Fonseca


    That was uncalled for.

    This is the internet and i was trying to be funny, which you seem to have misinterpreted. My aopologies…the reason i asked for you to write was to clarify a post you made to me the other day. But i thought by now you’d have far more serious, interesting and important things to tend to. So i figured just let it go. And that’s why i also posted on your guest book “never mind”..because the moment had passed. I was just trying to make light of the whole thing here on Buzz.

    You really have a wicked tongue for sarcasm, Herve. Maybe it takes one to know one, eh?


  363. Kathleen Fonseca


    I checked the address i left you in your guest book. I left out the “g” in “gmail”. I’m very sorry i wasted your time.


  364. @ Pete M…

    Regarding the letter….evidently there was a letter sent to those who entered the EPF that was sent to those who did not make the top 200 cut….so if you didn’t get a letter, and you enetered, you must be in the top 200.

  365. Kathleen Fonseca


    did you enter? if so, i wish you the vert, very best..i know this wait is torture..

    Andrew B

    Thanks for responding to Pete. i hope your wife’s fracture is healing well, you sounded a l-i-t-t-l-e frazzled yesterday. It’s tough being chief cook and bottle washer..smooth sailing ahead :))


  366. happy evening kat!

    thank you for thinking of her…the fracture is healing well, she is able to do more each day….it’s funny the little things that bother you when you can’t do them, that become major events when you are able to do them once more….

    frazzled is perhaps right….it’s not that either of us can’t cover for each other….but in this case, it was an extended period that I had to cover both jos…..my normal workweek plus hers…makes for long days indeed!

    looking forward greatly to LOOK3 and some relaxing time before it….trying hard to get some balance in things….

    hope good light has come and continues your way…

  367. Kathleen Fonseca

    Hi Andrew

    Yes, i know, i know. It’s very hard to take time away from job and family to do something so important to you, so dear to your heart. But you know, from my experience, the harder it is to do something the more you enjoy it..you savor every moment because it was such a struggle to get that time. I am just really happy the fracture happened when it did (if it had to happen at all) and not the day you were supposed to leave or something. Look3 will be your reward for job well done!!!! I hope you have the time of your life and more important? That you get so charged up about photography and what you’re doing that it lasts you until Look4!!! Tell your wife we all wish her well and thank her for us for being so cool about you going to Look3!

    eeks..i assume you’re going alone (?)..if not my apologies and i hope you BOTH have a great time!


  368. Jim said, “Even Harvey isn’t a superman! ;)”

    No, but you’d be surprised … he has more energy and ideas poring forth than just about anyone I’ve ever met, of any age. I remember him saying to us in New York during the Burn jam session, “Damn, people hate it when I do this.” We all looked at him and he said, “I got my second wind.” It was 4 a.m.

  369. Kathleen Fonseca

    Young Tom

    haha, thanks..i need some of that energy right now as i “burn” through a stack of photos..man, you’d think DAH would at least package it and sell it by the gram, huh? I’m sure a little would go a long, long way!


    i am eating ice cream alone..cherry to be exact..but i’m thinking of you with every spoonful!


    missing your witticisms tonight..the late shift is snooozing…did you get stuck to your magnetic wall?

  370. Is it a sign of courage or stupidity to admit mistakes?? Well….. on a lighter side. Someone VERY close to me just got their first 3 rolls of Holga negs back. Wanted to shoot square so had taken the 645 mask out, and promptly put it back in again by mistake without noticing.

    Well of course I would NEVER do something so stupid, but have got 3 rolls of 645 negs back instead of square. As Homer would say DOOOH….

    Have fun everyone (at my expense if you like…)

  371. Kathleen Fonseca


    You know what they say about cameras..if at first you don’t succeed, sell the goddamned thing.


    but maybe you have some cool shots in there..not what you had in mind maybe, but something to justify alll that film (?)

    i know, boo-hoo!

  372. Kat;

    A couple of ok shots, more by luck than good management! Nothing spectacular though. But while I was shooting I was stopped by someone who recognised the Holga and wanted to talk about them. Now that has never happenned with the digi!!

    But I am getting the hang of its framing, and it’s so much fun to shoot. I’m going to use it this weekend shooting at the underground indie music bar. A bit more experimentation.

  373. Kathleen Fonseca

    There you go then, Ross! The first 3 rolls were a practice run..makes you take the Holga even LESS seriously now that it’s made a total fool out of you, hehe…the worst has already happened! now you can just laugh and play..so do it..i hope you enjoy the experience!


  374. “now that it’s made a total fool out of you” I can normally do that pretty well on my own! I’m already planning to get another, one for B&W the other colour.

  375. Kathleen Fonseca

    you make me want to shoot with mine again–except it’s so expensive now, the film, the processing, and the scanning time..i’ll stick with my Yashicamat 124G..let me know when you upload some of your holga shots, ok?

    ok, time to zzzzz

    best, Ross!

  376. A civilian-mass audience

    TO ALL,

    as I am going through the posts ( cruising through the posts:)) LOOK what I found:

    New BURNian MARQOLL have a beautiful idea and old BURNian JIM agrees :We need a new blog to discuss photostuff…e.t.c…

    Dear BURN magazine,
    when and if you have 2min please you might have to consider the following suggestions :

    1~~~~~~~ blog : philosophical questions (windows and mirrors)grainy,fuzzy,technical, equipment,art and photojournalism,pj’s and …

    2~~~~~~~~blog : birthdays, deaths,congratulations,love affairs, nude bathings,Spas, pijama parties
    friends killing friends,recipes, ouzo-whiskey-beer talking and feta cheese…trauma center

    3~~~~~~~blog : Emerging Photographer Fund – Finalists ,we already have it discuss the ongoing EPF

    4~~~~~~~blog : dedicated to the Whatever ESSAY is on the Wall …ONE POST ONLY !

    I KNOW one THING for sure:


  377. A civilian-mass audience


    since when a dyslexic Civilian is going through the posts…oups!

  378. A civilian-mass audience


    for the insight:young tom

    “… DAH has more energy and ideas poring forth than just about anyone I’ve ever met, of any age. I remember him saying to us in New York during the Burn jam session, “Damn, people hate it when I do this.” We all looked at him and he said, “I GOT MY SECOND WIND” It was 4 a.m.

    FOR THE International readers

    *** second wind :to get a second burst of energy after the initial burst
    example.. when your ripping a fart, you think you’re done, but you’re not… more comes out .

    LOVE YOU ALL !!!!!
    magnetic wall keep going …KATIE YOU ROCK …BURN like FIRE …BURN LIKE KATIE
    WE CAN NOT BE STOPPED …I am happy again

  379. A civilian-mass audience

    Thank you Gordon Lafleur,

    “Question: what makes humans so attracted to crowd bathings”
    Sexual energy and tension Panos. Acres of naked oiled up flesh.”

    FOCUS PANOS, …Sexual energy and tension…


  380. A civilian-mass audience

    Thank you Paul O’Mara

    You wrote:

    “… Burn: Expect the unexpected…”

    HOLGA shots on Ross !!!


  381. Manuel Garcia

    Yes I guess you are rigth and definetly the point about Burn is having a photographer like David Alan Harvey envolved and commit to this project . I think I problaby got frustated by not getting any recognition about my essay, I would have love to know the reasons, Its not that I think I deserve it, but I guess its more about Knowing in what point one work is. So I thought Burn was more like a dialogue between photographers with the plus of having feedbacks from DAH, but once again I guess It wouldnt be possible everybody taking part in it.

  382. Manuel, I think you have a valid point. David seems to want to celebrate all photography, as though it all has equal value (and if I’m reading this wrong, I’m sure David will tell me ;). Which is fine. It’s his bully pulpit.

    But I fundamentally disagree with the idea that all photography is even important, much less of equal value. I think a continuing story on the desertification of China is far more important and worthy of funding than a brooding, introspective look at an individual’s childhood fantasies. And because, in the end, it becomes an either/or equation for limited funding, clearly one is more worthy of funding then the other, IMHO.

  383. Manuel Garcia

    I agree with you in that point, besides for me in my modest opinion the Simona issues fails, cause it didnt take me to any particular place of my own childhood memories, and after all what is photography but a way of transmiting or provoke feelings throughout images unlike literature which can be more racional.Maybe it did good to her in order to take out her own demons but for me as a viewer just let me more or less cold, despite its got some beauty images didnt tell me much. But when I got into Burn I was more concern about getting feedbacks than about the prize itself.And once again I agree that the money should go to someone who need it to pursuit his / her project and wouldnt have a chance other way, and of course such a project should have a massive audience interest, IMHO.

  384. Manuel Garcia

    For an instance I just saw the Sean Gallaguer picture ” Desert Storm” and I found it far more evoking, with its simplicity it made me feel a lot.And the picture can be a whole storie within itself. But once again this is quite subjective.

  385. MANUEL…

    let me go back and look at your essay….and i will get back to you in just a few minutes….obviously everyone who does not get the grant will feel the same as you…i have gotten some grants and not gotten others, so i know how you feel…honestly there was so much good work submitted i immediately thought that it is too bad i do not have 25 grants to give…if i could i would….anyway, hold tight and i will go re-visit your work…


    yes, this a fundamental split between us….you well know how much value i put on journalistic photography…most of my career has been as a documentary photographer….but, my background also includes my undergrad study in art history and i never never felt the mass media were able to use photography to its fullest potential….so i quite simply put value on many kinds of work…one of the reasons i loved Magnum as a teenager was that it was the only group of photographers who had their work in the press and simultaneously on the walls at the Tate and Biblioteque Nacional and MOMA…i have work in permanent museum collections AND in newspapers and magazines…i just do not see the line of demarcation quite the way you do….

    the work i will present here, again from work submitted, will indeed represent all of my tastes..BUT, i am not choosing the grantee….the jury will…most of the folks i know is this craft, art, business, do not find themselves quite as separated as do you from one genre to another..please remember, there are grants which celebrate only one kind of photography or another, just not this one….the generous donors who have decided that i should be the one to help distribute funds to young photographers have not issued a complaint as have you….as a matter of fact, they are contributing more as we speak….

    also remember , you have not even seen everything yet…there has been no judging yet….isn’t a bit premature for you to decide what has and what has not happened with the EPF????

    cheers, david

  386. MANUEL…

    you asked, so i will tell..i always give a straight up critique…..

    ok, i just looked up your essay “Georgia Colors”….here is my opinion..first there is nothing “wrong” with this essay…and you gave me a nice tight edit of 13 pictures….this essay could easily be published in most current periodicals….so i do not dislike your work and i see what you were going for …but, i felt that out of the 13 pictures you submitted you only had perhaps three or four compelling images in there..the rest were “supporting images” with no real strength on their own…it just did not a complete strong essay make compared to the other essays i was seeing…

    your work is pretty straightforward Manuel, and i doubt this work would be chosen by anyone as a body of work to be given a grant…you will have to become much more engaged with your subject, inject much more of your own vision, to survive in today’s world of photography…that is just the pure honest truth….of course, you should show your work to others, but i honestly feel any editor or curator today will tell you the same thing or close to it…

    why do you not skype me?? davidalanharvey we can go over it all by phone if you so choose…you definitely have potential to push beyond where you are as a pure image maker…you can take this opinion and simply say “to hell with it”…or you can take this and grow….i will help you if i can or i can recommend others you may prefer as a mentor….

    i do thank you for submitting…and i do think we should publish at least one of your better singles on Burn from this essay…

    cheers, david

  387. David, I suspect the grant will finally go to documentary work. Just chatting with Manuel philosophically about what ends up on Burn. But I do believe that some kinds of photography are more worthy of funding then others, given the limited resources available to fund such projects.

  388. Pete Marovich


    Just a gentile reminder about the book. I know you are busy and you mentioned you may be leaving for a trip. I probably need to send it out by Thursday to be safe so I can them at LOOK.


  389. A civilian-mass audience


    1000 essayists to Skype.. OIME. I got the tickets for Fiji though…just in case..:)

    AndrewB LOOK3 Is Yours. Our love to your wife. Περαστικα.
    Lee Guthrie, Jeremy,JamesC,Ana, Annie, Christina,Pete, DaviidMG, MikeR (storyteller)
    where are you ALLLLLLL….?
    Lassal we send you blood but it seems we need NEW BLOOD here !!!

    P.S Plato call Socrates, say I love you …
    PLEASE, no NEED to reply…I know…

  390. DAH, not worth explaining and nothing to do with you, i’ll just hold my breath for now.

    Anyway, if Civillian can lay down five new cryptic comments for every post, i can have a single one every month or so ;-)

  391. Pete Marovich


    GRINNING… but it feels like thursday without the benefit of friday being the next day!

  392. DAH

    I keep wanting to ask you this, but then I keep hearing “That would be telling” as an answer,
    from the 1967 UK tv series The Prisoner:

    Number 6: Where am I?
    Number 2: In the Village.
    Number 6: What do you want?
    Number 2: Information.
    Number 6: Whose side are you on?
    Number 2: That would be telling. We want information… information… information.
    Number 6: You won’t get it.
    Number 2: By hook or by crook, we will.
    Number 6: Who are you?
    Number 2: The new Number Two.
    Number 6: Who is Number One?
    Number 2: You are Number Six.
    Number 6: I am not a number! I am a free man!
    Number 2: [laughs]

    Still, the question..is there a plan to send letter to the 200 to let them know anything additional? Have all finalists heard that they are finalists? Ignore if you must :(


    Gordon et al

    and there need be no exclusion of documentary work in fine art..to my eyes that is what DAH is making all the time..

  393. JIM…

    please spell my name correctly…you are a news editor and a stickler for accuracy!!!!

    as far as quantity of content and how often it shows up on BURN, please just go look at any online magazine and see how much we publish here in comparison…Anton and i are now working on a minute and half movie to be shown at Look3 , basically the “best of BURN”…i think you will be quite surprised at what all has been published the last four months……who is publishing more content than us??? what small time online magazine updates as much as do we??

    besides , at your very own suggestion we have to be very careful about what we publish regarding the credibility of the content….that has slowed us down a little perhaps, but mostly i just wanted to give the finalists there due….i could update 5 times a day with the content coming to me….be patient my man, be patient….

    cheers, david

  394. A civilian-mass audience


    I will hold my breath from now on.

    Well, WTF…I am a Civilian after all and I will stand my ground.


    P.S Hmmm…Another sword tongue…At least you smiled ;—(

  395. ERICA…

    yes, we are within a few hours of being ready to do this…we got hung up when one of the finalists dropped out…we had to then go back over all 200 of course….in the course of doing this process we considered adding two more finalists, but i think we will just keep it to ten ….the jurors simple do not want more than 10….i am telling you there are many many strong essays in the 200…quite overwhelming actually….so sorry for the delay…the “dropout” really threw us off….

    cheers, david

  396. CIVI
    yeah … got the blood – thanx so so much! Saved me mine.

    After 2 weeks away it seems that my desk is about to crash under the weight of a screaming mob of papers that is wavering it’s fists at me. Scary sight. With one eye I am trying to sort the deadly issues out (like taxes), while trying to catch up with BURN with the other one … Looks fairly stupid.

    Also I got an amazing new collection of books – including “Mirrors and Windows” :))))))))), that arrived while I was in Romania and … I just cannot resist opening them … Guess I was just away too long from something good to read.

    One thing I can say already: the one comment strategy beneath the submissions seems to do the job. Thanks Jim (and Bob)!

    will you put up the LOOK3 presentation up here too? Please?!? Maybe after LOOK3? I would just love to be able to see it too …

  397. Kathleen Fonseca

    DAH, JIM

    Why do you two always bog yourselves down in the same old, same old *low scream* SAME OLD?! You two have this totally dysfunctional relationship. Jim pushes David´s buttons to make him stay here and pay attention to him. David is suitably provoked and feels he must explain and defend so stays and pays attention to Jim. The few months i am here it´s Jim demanding explanations from David and David providing them. Jim, why can´t you just accept DAH´s vision of Burn, and DAH, why can´t you just blow off these mind-numbing challenges to this vision? Neither one of you EVER gets tired of this? My parents would say, go back out in the shed if you want to continue this discussion.

    Well, i will probably hate myself in the morning for this post and since it IS the morning then i think i will just shrink off into the sunlight.

    best to you both but…but…more stuff like the W. Eugene Smith discussion, puhleeeze..your captive audience would be ever soooo grateful!


  398. A civilian-mass audience

    I promise I won’t do it again

    I am out of posts…
    Welcome back

  399. Thanks bunches DAH..

    I can only imagine how overwhelming and I did suspect that the quality of what you are looking at is formidable..and we all are in your gratitude for going back over everything with such great attention..the delay is understandable completely..was just trying to get a grasp on where things stood..thank you for the clarification.

    I know you don’t have much time / attention for tv, but if you are ever stormed in or something, do check out The Prisoner if you haven’t already seen it..it is considered tv’s first masterpiece..


    “more stuff like the W. Eugene Smith discussion”


  401. KATHLEEN…

    laughing…yes, of course you are basically correct….if you read carefully, i only answer Jim when he asks questions i think others may also have in the back of their mind..

    also, the nature of the running commentary here is odd in the sense that YOU and I assume that everyone who logs on today, read stuff from the day before or the month before…new folks check in everyday necessitating sort of a constant update of information that is old to US, but new to THEM…we may have all of this in our heads, but new people coming in have no clue…i must say it does create an awkwardness, but i just cannot figure out a way around it..one of the many vagaries of the net…

    another thing is this…Jim simply asks questions…very few others do…i read very few comments that stimulate me to jump in..most are all inclusive and my only response is: ok good….if Jim takes over it is because he is provocative…

    if someone else wants to be provocative or ask a really good question, i am all over it…i think i answer all questions asked of me allowing of course for some that i simply miss…go back and look at this morning’s questions…did i not answer everyone???

    see, you have just been provocative and here i am!!!

    abrazos, david

  402. KAT, DAH …

    maybe BURN needs a section for “Frequently Asked Questions” (FAQ)

    In fact I thought this over and over when I saw the comments on the EPF section. People do not seem to want to bother to read what has already been written. If you go through that post, you will see the same questions (and answers) over and over …

  403. Kathleen, look at the responses to Aftermath. You don’t think my wonderings are on point?

  404. KAT

    There will be a new book out this fall about Eugene Smith’s time at 821 Avenue of the Americas in 1957, when he left “behind a family in Westchester and a job with Life magazine, where he had perfected the photo-essay form.”

    I read the story first in an old copy of Aperture magazine, a beautiful spread with lots of great images of the jazz loft, the story is amazing..a summary

    “From 1957 to 1965, W. Eugene Smith—one of the masters of twentieth-century photography—lived in a loft building in New York City’s wholesale flower district that was the site of famous after-hours jazz jam sessions. During his eight years there he took forty thousand pictures (the largest body of work in his career), photographing the nocturnal jazz scene as well as life on Sixth Avenue outside his window. Now, two hundred of these extraordinary, never-before-seen photographs have been gathered together. An extraordinary portrait of the underground world of jazz in 1960s New York and the extraordinary photographer who captured it all.”

    As powerful as the photos is the story of how he lived and worked at the loft, consumed as per his norm, sleeping little and obsessed, but in this story he seems to be fully alive and driven by the music in a positive way..he also wired the loft gathered hours and hours of recordings..talk about a MM piece waiting to happen..

  405. LASSAL…

    good constructive idea….let me see if we can do this …i also planned on doing a post at the end describing the whole process of selection and evaluation….both of these should help…thanks…

    cheers, david

  406. Civilian, i smiled And ‘Winked’, if you were a Real Civilian you would know that teasing is how civilians flirt with each other.. Hellllooo!

    Anway, if you’re ‘realllly’ offering ‘stuff’ Civilian, i’d settle for some restraint with the cap-locks, i’ve already gotten used to seeing a column of Civilian posts when i arrive at the home page at the cost of missing someone that made a single post appearance ;-) but the constant shouting! Is it really necessary?, Wait! is it really Civil!?, we’re standing right next to you Civilian!

    After that, if you’re still in the giving mood Civilian, can you also leave a few more hints every now and then as to what the heck you are talking about!? For example, i still can’t figure out what the porridge comment was about, i really tried, and when i don’t get it i feel stupid, you don’t want me to feel stupid do you Civilian? Maybe you do! ;-)

  407. ERICA…

    i am anxious to see this Smith jazz work….i may have told you that i had an opportunity to print for Smith back in 1966, but just couldn’t do it…he was in New York, and i had a wife and new baby while i was in grad school in Missouri…i just could not make the jump…..over the years i have tried to meet every single legend that is a legend in my mind…but, i did not meet Smith..too bad…just circumstantial…my best friend Medford however did meet Smith at a workshop and told me later that i was better off just knowing the work….

    before Henri died he was very concerned with what would happen to his work after he was gone….he tried so so hard to make sure that there could be no mis-use….or misrepresentation…Koudelka worries about this all the time about his own work and was apoplectic at the most recent HCB exhibit at ICP (i wrote about meeting an upset Koudelka on the streets of NY in Road Trips)…in other words, would some photographers turn in their grave if they saw what was being done with their work, their outtakes, now??? Smith never saw Pittsburg, PJG never saw his retrospective….an interesting concept about how to control your work after you are no longer around to control it…

    cheers, david

  408. panos skoulidas

    I shouldn’t get involved …
    but I can’t help it..laughing…
    Hey CIVI ,
    Don’t let them bully you or scare you
    or put u in the corner…
    Not your fault if they don’t get it…
    But then again what do u expect from
    Trolls with names as ACNE???
    Jealousy and white Acne style hate..
    Civi ignore them..
    Don’t apologize to them.. They don’t appreciate
    the bright day… They only see darkness, smoke
    pain and sabotage!!!!??
    ACNE !!!?? Acne.. ? someone had traumatic teenage years..
    again Civi…
    Their pain isn’t your fault.. They can send you as
    much advice as they wish but don’t change the way u write coZ
    then they’ll hate u even more.. than they do now!

  409. DAH

    I already think about it on a small scale for myself..sometimes I toss negs in the trash for this reason, just in case; but I can imagine it would be a sizable concern for anyone who knows there work WILL be reprinted after they are gone..

    the link to the book to be : http://www.amazon.com/Jazz-Loft-Project-Photographs-1957-1965/dp/0307267091#productPromotions

    I lent my copy of Aperture with Smith’s jazz work to Andrew Sullivan, but if you haven’t seen it yet I should ask him to bring it LOOK..I was very moved by the text..it certainly would have been an adventure to print for Smith..you and i still have a date I hope to meet Frank, like you I fell it is important to meet these legends. I liken it a little to what spiritual masters often say about the relevance of the aspirant to spend as much time as is possible in the presence of the teacher, partly because it is grace to have the opportunity at all, and one does not ignore grace, but also because one’s own self is ‘upped’ a bit just by being in the same energetic space..

  410. panos skoulidas

    FAQ( frequently asked questions )
    Great idea Lassal…
    and about Jim’s “success”???
    I agree with DAH..
    jim is the only one around lately that asks
    questions…most, still trying hard to show
    how finished, closed and intellectual their
    comments are..
    No wonder Jim took over.. Jim is NOT a hypocrite..

  411. If i could spend a week camping at Walden Pond with any photographer that ever walked the earth, it would have to be Eugene Smith.

    i really think he was on to something with regards to taking still-images to the next level; as if they could be some kind of serendipity-cerium to move mankind along.

    unfortunately i think that mankind could not give him the dose of serendipity he was looking for to create the quantum leap he wished to deliver and ‘he’ and ‘we’ were left without the unified field theory of images he was hoping to deliver.

    i’m really looking forward to the new information coming out to collect more information on his ideas.

    Cheers for the links and news.

    Also, Civillian, i’m not being mean, i’m teasing! Hello!

    Panos, you behave, you’re getting in the way of some Burn-member-bonding.

  412. erica:

    about meeting ‘teachers’….or better ‘legends’…i would say it is MUCH MORE (sorry for the shouting) important to be with people who grant grace, are beamed with grace, and that aint at all about legends……the legend shit, that’d be our hangup….not the teachers….right?…i love Frank so much that I feel, all he’s been assailed by, that it would be not graceful to seek a meeting….teachers commune with students, not lead…

    and here’s a little buddhist-russian question, from a Tolstoy story…

    an empereor once ask for wisdom and saught the person who could answer these 3 questions:

    1) When is the most important time to do something?
    2) Who is the most important person with whom to do something?
    3) What is the most important thing to do?

    my 1/day comment..


  413. Joe ;))…

    “If i could spend a week camping at Walden Pond..”…that’s an easy one:

    can i say 2 names: marina and dima…


  414. Nice out-of-context lift-out Bob;))..next time feel free to keep the sentence intact:

    with any photographer that ever walked the earth.

    i think with the sentence intact you will find it more difficult to suggest you’re a better family many! Indeed Bob!;))

    What’s put you in this sudden below-the-belt mood Bob? Have you lost interest in meeting anyone new and exciting? Or do you just feel guilty that you’ve not been the family man you should have been recently and now you’re over-compensating? You’re definitely under one of your mood swings, no? :-(

  415. JOE you are DA MAN,
    and I thought we have moved way over… the Burn-member-bonding…:)

    JOE FOCUS,FOCUS …caps off:)))) i try to help the international civilians/ ESL/Hello
    May 25, 2009 at 12:20 pm
    david b –
    no worries mate – gotta run to a late nite meeting right now …
    want some porridge***** a an early night too …

    WHERE is STUPID by the way ? I really miss him!!! STUPIDDDDDD or stoop !!!!

    PANOS if you only knew…OIME , my mate…
    Next time please don’t get involved :)…I have KATIE my sword tongue and My Gracie and Davidb…and…
    Thanks, you look like Venice :)

    I see the blood helped you out:))

    P.S ACMA is me …FOCUS BURNIANS focus


  416. Ouch!

    Can someone pass me some salt!? I’ll just be right over here trying to figure out If I should eat this foot that’s suddenly landed in my mouth or just knaw on it for a while!

    Sorry Bob!

  417. panos skoulidas

    Joe, Civi…
    Sorry.. I promise to behave and I should stay out of
    the Burn members bonding…!!!
    Love y’all..
    Big hug from the cloudy Los Angeles..:(

  418. BOB

    maybe I should not say this here now because the words have not formed yet in my mind. And I have not digested it all … But … I just returned from an Antonin Kratochvil workshop. And in very many senses he seems to choose to be the opposite of DAH. “Grace” would certainly not be the right terminology … at least not in the usual way. Nonetheless I found “grace” in an unusual way, after quite some digging work and ignoring the pits he like to put in peoples ways. So, what I want to say it that the “grace” I look for is not always on the surface.

    I mean … seriously … why do I go to workshops? It is not so much to learn about photography. Well it also is about that, of course, but indirectly. Directly it is about the single photographer who is doing the show. I see the photographs … and if they touch me, then I want to meet the person behind them. I want to check if that what I see corresponds to the person, what kind of person is necessary to do this work and … how it happened that this person became this way. It is different to witness it than to read about it. Very different. It is some kind of immens curiosity that grows in me and that gets stronger with every image I see of that person that goes under my skin. It is hard for me to admit that it happenes extremely (!) seldom. I know it probably sounds pretty arrogant and that is not what I want to say with it. I do not know why it happens that seldome … but it is not confined to a specific type of photography … and type of person.

    Hmmm … I knew I would loose my path here … Hmmm … I think it is the Walden Pond … It is not about taking anybody there, I think, but much more to go to someone wherever this person (teacher, legend, whatever) feels at home and to try to understand him/her there. I guess to the Walden Pond I would go … alone.

    And I truly do not think a person does have to be obviously wise or graceful in the common understanding of the words, to teach you something. Sometimes it is us ourselves who have to bring the grace (or whatever else) we want into the equation. And … sometimes we simply have to try to be better students and see between the lines. I think we actively have to look for what there is to be found rather than to sit there with open hands and expect someone to give it to us in perfectly cut out pieces …

    Bob, please sorry, I think you meant your comment in a different way, but it just is something I was thinking about anyway. I could easily have dissed Antonin for the “show” he was giving us, but … I would have lost so much by doing so … And I would have missed to see a wonderful person. I guess I just wanted to say that sometimes things require a little more work from our own side … And there is a lot of possibilities to “transform” pieces of the puzzle, so it fits into your picture.

    Even shorter: the responsibility of learning is ours – and the responsability of what we do with it too.


  419. an interesting concept about how to control your work after you are no longer around to control it…

    Good morning all.

    Can’t read all that has been written since yesterday, sticking to… “Noblesse Oblige” ;-), David’s last comment. Maybe our female mebers may have something to say, I would like to hear their opinions on widows carrying the mantle of their deceased genius hubbie selflessly.

    Anyway, David and all, aren’t widows (daughters and sons too, close friend ) often the “key” to holding up in the best manner, the vision, the last words, the archives, the rights, and of course the body of work of a renowned artist (not sure what happened with HCB in ICP, since he does have a window closely associated to his legacy).

    Anyway, short of having this type of devotion to an artists and her/his life work, I’d be interested to hear how the correct management of a legacy, not just the archives, but all kind of upholding the “wishes” and memory of the defunct, has/can been carried over satisfactorily to the memory of a great artist.

    PS: Not meant to scare you, David, BTW. Not to worry, I am sure we can find you a good widow, here on BURN…. :-) lest you bury us all, that is… :-(

    Back later.

  420. “And I truly do not think a person does have to be obviously wise or graceful in the common understanding of the words, to teach you something. Sometimes it is us ourselves who have to bring the grace (or whatever else) we want into the equation”

    I love this sentiment, did you just make this up Lassal?

    If we waited around to collect wisdom from only nice people we would be in a world of darkness! Ironically I find the people most dissatisfied with life are the ones that know the most about it!

    Interesting, I’ve always felt it was ‘humility’ that gave you the keys to the mentor-castle, something i find in my over-confident state to be insincere to assume, but in fact it’s not the ‘exact’ approach to befriend a teacher, it really is ‘Grace’.

    And then you have DAH, the more brash his audience, the more ‘kind’ he is, he’s weird isn’t he? ;-) Then again, in one word i think DAH has pleaded for a bit of ‘grace’ ever now and then!

  421. Geez … I spent “6 comments” writing mine …
    Joe, right, you brought in the Walden Pond. I’ve always wanted to go there, since I saw a picture of it and the hut …
    But really … I never imagined to go there with someone else but by myself. :-)

    Of course I get your thought. So to answer your question: I’d like to go with Salgado on one of his trips and watch him work for as long as possible.

    I kind of come from Brazil like he does. I studied economics like he did and … in a lot of ways I feel like I assume he does. It was one of his speeches on YouTube, held in Portuguese for a couple of students, that made me not sleep for 3 days last year in a feverish agony … as if things had fallen into place. These words clearly changed my life, as did DAH’s call last summer to ask me to go to his workshop. Before these two things I was not looking at photography as an alternative of communication for me.

    Back to Salgado: I would love to learn more about his hope and optimism, that I unfortunately cannot share despite really wanting to. I would love to learn to see his guiding light myself, and I would absolutely love to see his project TERRA. So it is more about the person and motivation here and the photographs at this moment are merely a path that lead to this. I want to see how he embeds the contend of his message in his person. See?

    I would probably never be able to take pictures as he does. And to be sincere … I would never even want to try. There the differences between us clearly kick in. Despite of all similarities, that I feel the urge to confirm, I am a totally different person with a completely different language than he. But it is like hearing a beloved voice sing a song that you think you know from a long forgotten past …

    Hard to explain.

  422. JOE

    “I love this sentiment, did you just make this up Lassal?”
    Well, that is just the way I see it.

    “Ironically I find the people most dissatisfied with life are the ones that know the most about it!”
    Somewhere on the road is a fork. With the same amount of knowledge about life you can end up being very satisfied. I think that is where true wisdom cicks in. And … to be sincere to you Joe, sometimes I am afraid of missing the turn …

    As to humility … well you have to be humble to be able to recognize your lessons. Is that not so?

  423. HERVE

    “Maybe our female mebers may have something to say, I would like to hear their opinions on widows carrying the mantle of their deceased genius hubbie selflessly.”

    I think it is simply their very own decision. And I think this decision is taken long before that.

  424. Walden Pond..I go there from time to time with my best girlfriend, we swim and we talk and laugh, we try to get away from all the others doing the same..going with a photographer, maybe Martin Parr, to watch him photograph all the tourists :)) Sadly, it really isn’t Thoreau’s Walden anymore.


    glad you met AK…you seem pleased with the experience

  425. Joe:

    im totally NOT in the sour mood…quite the opposite…and as erica pointed out, marina and dima are the 2 photographres who’d i’d most want to spend time with, anywhere, especially Walden pond…incidentally, you’ll see Marina’s stuff eventually :))

    and by the way, if there’s one thing i never have to compensate for, it’s the time i spend with my family…they trump everything and everyone….ask Harvey…but, i wont require you to suck on some salt, it’s not healthy ;))))…and i still dig you anyway, dont worry :))

    Erica :))…and by the way, my questions to you were with love, following up on your questions to DAH :))…that story says all there is to say about Teachers :))))…

    Lassal: what i meant is, above all, those 3 questions and the answers to them…and grace for me is a very simple thing…has nothing to do at all with the things we wrap around others, but something simpler……i’ll leave it at that for now, but will say this about grace: it inhabits all of us and all those, especially those in front of us, rather than that which we seek….


  426. ERICA
    I had to think of you. You, the master of minutious descriptions gave me a very dry bread when I asked about AK before I left for Romania. In a way I saw this as a warning sign. And … Well yes, AK is a lot of work :-)) But I found it very rewarding to try to understand him. And I learned some new curses too …

  427. BOB

    So we are on the same page as to grace … that is nice. Maybe it is because I am dependant on my narrow dictionary for these definitions.
    But I should have known … You are a buddhist after all.

  428. ERICA
    Walden Pond became a tourist attraction now?
    oh nooooo ….
    I will stick to the picture I have of it instead. In a dark black&white: So quiet and solitary …

  429. i sort of think Walden Pond is more of a concept now than a real space, sure it’s pretty, it’s also pretty infected with people looking for the magic that took place there for a period of time, but something about that space was different back then.

    i always wanted to write an essay to Burn about This, but it seems this might be as good as time as any to introduce it.

    Does anyone see the parallels?

  430. A civilian-mass audience


    Did you see???
    there is another photographer … he calls himself PLATON …oime…
    Shall I contact him?
    He has to reconsider …there is only one PLATO…( our Plato!!! )

    Well, maybe we can let him keep his name ( he might be Greek, who knows)
    and we have DAH there is no other DAH in the world…

    P.S 7th post …now I can go …Joe…I am going…I am gone Joe:)))))
    LOVE ! DON’T blink

  431. Sometimes this thread is just surreal. I see Civilian sitting at his computer, wearing a pie tin on his head and facing east. Mama told me not to come. ;)

  432. Manuel Garcia

    Thank you very much David , that was exactly what I was looking forward to… And on top of it I can see that you are rigth, and for me ,your opinion ,honestly, its been deeply contructive and I think it will help me out a lot… I have got to go now Im in the middel of a trip but let me tell you again that Im looking forward to get as much advice as you can give me in this matter.

  433. Maybe it takes one to know one, eh?

    Sure do, Kat! But nothing arrogant like when I was 17, and much more french, of course. I knew everything then…or if in french: I knew everything zen.

    I remeber your question, sorry, I forgot with all that went around jenn’s EPF work. Yes, I just meant that being very sensitive to women’s conditions thru a photo, I just thought this sensitivity might find a response in activism, or good samritanship.

    And to make this post relevant to all, I just saw that on the Magnum site, and it’s funny, because it’s about muslims fleeing and leaving pictures behind. Albeit a very different situation than the Calais women, yet all about mug shots and what can be read thru them. and leaving pictures behind.

    Check it out: Maybe it takes one to know one, eh?

    Sure do, Kat! But nothing like when I was 17, and much more french, of course. I knew everything then…or if in french: I knew everything zen.

    I remeber your question, sorry, I forgot with all that went around jenn’s EPF work. Yes, I just meant that being very sensitive to women’s conditions thru a photo, I just thought this sensitivity might find a response in activism, or good samritanship.

    And to make this post relevant to all, I just saw that on the Magnum site, and it’s funny, because it’s about muslims fleeing and leaving pictures behind. Albeit a very different situation than the Calais women, yet all about mug shots and what can be read thru them. and leaving pictures behind.

    Check it out: Maybe it takes one to know one, eh?

    Sure do, Kat! But nothing like when I was 17, and much more french, of course. I knew everything then…or if in french: I knew everything zen.

    I remeber your question, sorry that I forgo itt with all that went around jenn’s EPF work. Yes, I just meant that being very sensitive to women’s conditions thru a photo, I just thought this sensitivity might find a response in charitable activism, or good samaritanship.

    And to make this post relevant to all, I just saw that on the Magnum site, and it’s funny, because it’s about muslims fleeing and leaving pictures behind. Albeit a very different situation than the Calais women, yet all about mug shots and what can be read thru them. and leaving pictures behind.

    Check it out: http://inmotion.magnumphotos.com/essay/taliban

  434. JOE…

    “weird” is definitely how i describe myself…


    when you return from your trip, please contact me and we can begin a dialogue…

    safe travels ..

    cheers, david

  435. Erica,

    If I were you I’d get on the Platon salon waitlist.
    Looks like everyone who is in the group is a personal friend or one of his assistants, retouchers, etc. but maybe he will expand it…worth a try.

  436. ALL…

    speaking of Walden Pond and salons etc…i need some advice….about roses….i have two very nice rosebushes at my newly found version of Walden down on the shore (where i plan to have a selected group for some kind of seminar, fishing trip, photo shoot, book publishing discussion etc)…in any case, these roses (i have no idea what kind) bloomed spectacularly about two weeks ago…i mean off the charts….now most blooms are gone, but a neighbor told me she has seen it bloom all summer long into the fall..another neighbor told me i should immediately prune it significantly right now…my question is: should i clip off the dying blooms, radical pruning, or just leave the bush alone???

    if i am going to help some of you with editing, maybe some of you can help me with gardening…


    cheers, david

  437. Maybe that can help (and its “related videos”), David, until someone does a btter job than me trying to help:

  438. Manuel Garcia,
    You are very courageous to ask for an on-line critique from DAH and I do hope that you make the best of it. The words from DAH that I would hang on to are “you definitely have potential to push beyond where you are as a pure image maker…” – remember, David plays it straight; he’s not being nice to you, he really means it.

    He’s been there: ask him about his early “I’m glad that you are young and strong because what I have to say will make you feel old and tired” (paraphrase) rejection from National Geographic. He took the advice given to him and produced an essay that turned things around. As they say, the rest is history. I do hope that you work with David and look forward to seeing your work. If you can, take a workshop; you will learn in one week what it will take you five years to learn yourself.

    Good light,


  439. HERVE…

    thanks…just exactly what i needed to know…


    it is interesting that you see Antonin and i as opposites…you are no doubt right…yet, when Antonin and i are together , i cannot think of any photographer with whom i am more simpatico …. by the way, i am home and ready to skype with you anytime..tomorrow morning early???? welcome back…

    cheers, david

  440. Panos,
    You’re getting good at this. I was reminded of a Melanie Griffith quote from The Bonfire Of The Vanities – “Where did all the white folks go?”. Looks like they are missing a lot.

    Good light mate,


  441. DAVID,

    What Herve and Wendy said…

    Also think about the shape you want the rose bush to take. Don’t encourage growth “inwards” towards the center of the plant. You want the new branches to reach outwards.

    I’ve been doing a bit of gardening myself. Great fun to dig in the dirt.

  442. I’ve seen a few books where photographers have tried to capture the spirit of Walden Pond, in my opinion most seem to have failed miserably. It would be pretty difficult to visually come up with anything that anywhere near matches Thoreau’s words.

    However, the only nature photographer I would love to see try would be Freeman Patterson. I’ve always loved his nature work, it’s so far away from stereotypical “nature” photography, it’s poetic. He’s a wonderful writer too. And a gear minimalist too, which i love.

    A raggedy copy of Walden, is my permanent companion. Everytime I travel it’s always found somewhere in the bottom of my pack. Even though there is no way I would go back to traditional nature photography again, Walden is still an inspiration….

    I’ve also got a paperback Don McCullin “Unreasonable Behaviour” in there too, it helps me stop being such a whiner when things aren’t going right on a trip!

    I think a trip to Walden would be a dissapointment though if it has become a “tourist attraction”. It could never match the imagery in your mind.

    Manuel Garcia;

    I’m glad to see you’re taking the critique and running with it. David and Bill Allard’s critiques were watersheds for me, especially Mr Allards well aimed cowboy boot!!!

    I often find it difficult to understand why someone asks for a critique and then gets upset if it tells them something they don’t want to hear? Why bother asking in the first place?

    Mr Allard’s critique was tough, but fair. What more can you ask for? There’s no point having someone blowing smoke up your rear and telling you what you want to hear. David was far more tactfull!! :-)) But he said exactly the same thing, but in a different way.


  443. As for roses; all mine are old fasioned types and succumb to pair of hedgeclippers cutting two thirds off them each winter!!! They flower like mad, but like I said; they are olde world roses!!

  444. Ross, nice one! Unreasonable Behaviour is a landmark book. It would be good to see Don as a guest a the Magnum AGM in London.



  445. Mike; “Unreasonable Behaviour is a landmark book”

    I’ve got two copies, the paperback in my pack/luggage and a hardback that never leaves my house!!!

  446. John;

    I love his ethics and sensibilities as much as his work. It was great to see some of his new UK work in his “In England” book

  447. MIKE R….

    good idea…i will invite Don if he is around….lovely man…”lovely” might seem like a funny adjective for what many would assume to be a super macho guy, but it fits i think in his case…he is actually the only “war photographer” i can think of who made such an interesting transition…


    thanks for the advice…now, one last little thing….i have heard that it is bad to get the leaves wet with a sprinkler in the sunshine (they will get black spots) …true or false???


    i like #13,14,22,39,40…mostly #13…but, what i think even more is that you should take this backdrop at home bit even further…the cheesier the better…do a very large montage….like 10ft x 10ft with about 100 of these pictures on it…cheapo prints…..but, mounted on aluminum….nicely , perfectly framed…do three to five of these…limited edition one of a kind…..Girls n’the Hood…..Fahey-Kline gallery….get rich….

    cheers, david