DAH and Fellow BURNERS,

“…think before you write and write exactly as you think…”

Always good advice, which I have tried in my own humble and at times inadequate way to follow, both on “Road Trips” and now on BURN. I don’t always leap up to add my own comments to every photo or essay these days, but it doesn’t mean I don’t look at and think about the photos, or read and think about the comments. Over the last couple of years, aside from the exposure here to a wide range of photography and personalities, and the fun of hanging out with DAH even at a distance, the writing… and the reading… I’ve done here has taught me a lot about communicating, how to look at photographs, how to think about them, and how to talk about them. And, at times, how to hold my peace.

One of the ironic characteristics of the Internet is that while it makes any kind of commenting, blurting out ideas, engaging in repartee, drooling out drivel, striking a macho pose, or being offhandedly dismissive, ridiculously easy, it also broadcasts the message infinitely in time and space… and the thoughtless or casual tweet becomes indelibly carved in cyberspace, possibly to return and haunt its owner years later. The Internet is also democratic… thoughtless, shallow, abrupt, or dismissive opinions get posted on the same forum with really heartfelt, sensitive, profound, and illuminating writing.

Now, one of the great attractions of “Road Trips” was a frothy mix of the lighthearted and casual with the serious and considered. And some of the ‘confrontational’ stuff actually added drama… and a more embracing synthesis once the drama was resolved. At times the balance may have veered a little off course, but DAH’s gentle nudge of the tiller was usually enough to regain balance and keep momentum building. You don’t need me to repeat what a marvelous journey this has been up to this point, and how excited everyone who has been involved, even peripherally like me, must feel. There’s a question in my mind about DAH’s words of caution above, however… will this make people too self-conscious to be spontaneous, take unexpected detours off-thread, or crack light-hearted jokes? Or maybe back down from a confrontation before they’ve actually said their piece?

Maybe I’m only projecting. If you’re really centered in who you are and what you’re doing, then damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead. Yes, the stakes are getting higher now, the audience is much bigger, but that’s no reason to get stagefright… Remember, it wasn’t ONLY the serious stuff that made both “Road Trips” and BURN such an attractive place to hang out. In the last couple of weeks it seems to me the commenters have mainly been ‘the usual suspects’, a rather circumscribed group that frankly feels a bit claustrophobic to me compared to “Road Trips” when it was in high gear. I’m hoping the posting of the EPF finalists will spark dialogue from a much wider range of commenters. And I promise not to personally hog the airwaves. Best of luck to you, DAH, and everybody else! But let’s not get too serious… remember, it’s only Rock’n’Roll.

DAVID
you are so generous
dedicated,
YOU are making all this happen
with
your vision…
I am honored to be here,
will try oh so hard,
to better articulate my thoughts..
for you
for Burn….
for photography
and the craft
we all love
and
adore…..
filled with passion….
we are all here for the same reason….
inspiration,
intelligence,
and
a
LOVE
for
photography….
**

hang in there D Harvey. sounds, hope your the De Niro of still film.

yikes…

*humbled*

Mr. Sidney Atkins,

You have the gift of the Articulate writing !!!!

I am the ‘the usual suspect’of the rather circumscribed group …and I’m HOPING the posting of the EPF finalists will spark dialogue from a much wider range of commenters. THANK YOU!
It’s only Rock’n’Roll and we love it…

“well, you have saved BURN for another month or so…”
BURNIANS AND CIVILIANS…for just another month?
…UNIVERSE we can DO better …FOCUS and DONATE !!!

“think before you write and write exactly as you think…”
I PROMISE that I will try as long as I breath here in BURN to think before I write and to be responsible
…I pledge …No more LA bomba’s from my side :(

i think the biggest difference between road trips and here is that there is always work being discussed.. always new work to look at.. and that´s made this a place to visit way beyond the reasons on road trips – which was a place to talk about photography, and where the mentored photographers showed work.

what i have loved about burn is seeing some of the same people find voice for talking about specific work of others – people who they do not know.. myself included – i was never that comfortable to crit work on roadtrips..

sidney – well said.. however when i joined in on road trips it was iin part easier because of the regulars – i could see what the place was about and tuck in.. i know it is different here, but the ramblings and mumblings which are aside from photography also serve to make the place less scary i think..

in terms of the postings you´re right sidney – whats written here stays here unless deleted.. so all, myself included, need to be conscious of that. keeping the comments of the ´positive crit´ kind will encourage people to submit work..

david ah
brilliant that the plans are coming together for the commissioning wing of burn.. very exciting step not only for burn – but in terms of web-magazines in general.
many i have worked for see advertising money as easy and for keeps, and ask frequently for free work or (as with one client) ´behind the scenes´, photos for free web use while i have been working on a fee basis for the print magazine.
i know it is a trend beginning to change, and it´s about time.. it is great that burn will be showing some other sites, who are much more capable of paying, how web publishing needs to move forward.

regarding difference of opinion on here – if it´s about photography that´s brilliant.. if it is not then i would say to people – just back out of it.. use emails.. or just move on quickly.. there has to be a trend for less personal postings on here.

the commenting people here are not the majority.. and it´s great to see burn developing along lines for the silent majority, who just love looking and thinking about photography.

okay.. chasing accountants day :ø/
yesterday was a blast.. full-on family day out.
some snaps.. beate and tor capa therein
http://bophoto.co.uk/blog/blog.htm

cheers
david

EDITING PART 14 – the joy of a harvey wallbanger.

the latest installment of editing for my book – the behind-the-scenes work of burn magazine – is on my blog.

with gracious thanks david.. i was unsure we would cover much ground today.. great conversation and thoughts from you which will help me to blend the work.. legs wobbly, sweat is pouring, mouth is dry, but I CAN SEE THE FINISH-LINE :ø)

http://bophoto.co.uk/blog/blog.htm through my website or…

Merci beaucoup monsieur Eric….
I second your thoughts…..!!!!

ALL…

I had the pleasure of talking with DAH earlier today about the Burn gallery and he asked me to pass along the following…

a) First of all, it is going to happen…real soon…!

b) At the moment he is swamped with the preparations for Look3 and of course publishing the EPF finalists, so the actual process of selecting which pictures will be included in the first show and all the practical issues that come with putting together an exhibition will start in the middle of June.

c) Those of you who shoot digital could make use of the high end printer that DAH has and save both on shipping (especially so if you’re living outside the States) and on transit time for your prints to get to the gallery. The rest of us who still shoot film will have to send in our silver prints by mail to and address that David will give in time. His personal preference is in tubes but flat shipping is ok too…

d) Since the wall space is somewhat limited (this is not news for those of you who’ve been there) ideas on how to display more than a couple dozen 16×20”s at a time will allow for more people to participate. Also, ideas on promotion… a catalog… online galleries/sells… projections…
Brainstorm…

e) One of the main objectives is to actually sell some prints to help both Burn and the photographers involved so, we are all encouraged to choose a couple of pictures for consideration that we think (or “know” from previous experience) that have the best chance to do just that…sell.

f) On the issue of money—and even though I’m really NOT a wealthy guy… I tried to explain that for me (and possibly for some of you) helping Burn in its first steps and the “cred” of participating in the gallery would be payment enough but David would not have any of it. He is a “what is fair is fair” kind of guy… (by the way, have you ever heard of the gallerist who was offered 100% commission by the artist and said “no, 50-50 is better”???)

Finally a personal note:
I have never attended a workshop of David’s, or even met the man in person, and he still gave me the time of his day… he is the real deal, and this place has the potential to become… well… whatever we collectively set out to make it… support Burn…

Peace…

BURNIANS

We are really on a roll here, and who do we have to thank for that? David Alan Harvey. This man is busting his butt to give us more opportunities than we emerging photographers could ever have imagined possible. I mean, how many of you ever dreamed you might have prints hanging in a NYC gallery? And a gallery that is already the talk of the town before it’s even been totally cleaned up from the previous tenant!

Virtual? Hell, there’s nothing virtual about this community. David has moved the internet from an ether-bound entity into something so real you can pinch it. Speaking of which, I keep pinching myself these days to see if I’m dreaming that I’ve somehow ended up here on Burn, ended up with ten months of my work printed in a Blurb book ready to show a publisher, ended up being mentored by one of today’s iconic photographers, ended up feeling so close to photographers from around the world. I’m sure I’m not the only one who thanks my lucky stars that somehow I found my way first to Road Trips and now to Burn.

So, whatever we can do to help Burn generate even MORE of a buzz, let’s do it! Donate what you can in terms of funds, take an active part in the discussions but think long and hard before posting anything that could be construed as mean-spirited, submit your work for publication, encourage your photographer friends & colleagues to do the same, volunteer your time if at all possible to help get our gallery up and running, and just keep shooting shooting shooting. After all, words and ideas are good, but for a photographer there’s nothing like DOING IT to keep the creative juices flowing.

I am SO grateful to be part of this community. And David, you are THE BEST!!!

love
Patricia

THODORIS – thank you for helping get the gallery up and going. i think it is going to be exciting. i already know of a few pieces i want hanging in my house.

BUZZ – yes, there was a buzz at NYPF. I met a guy who NEVER comments on Burn, but does read (occasionally) and donated money the first day. i thought that was very cool.

LOOK3 – i hope many of you will be able to attend this year. it is going to be EXCITING! please let me know if you have any questions about tickets, hotels, etc…. happy to help!!

ANTON – i like the “donation” link – instead of “support burn”. the new one is less prominent. just my opinion…

I wonder how come we dont have Tanzanian albinos here. Well, I would wonder, but I managed to score a week’s vacation and I am not going to think about this until next Tuesday.

That’s to keep everyone amused until I return. Have a good one, guys.

A little more buzz was provided by The New York Times’ recently launched photojournalism blog “Lens.” Burn is listed on its blogroll, along with Pete Marovich’s 37th Frame. They’re among good company. The Times linked to Magnum, National Geographic and the Aperture Foundation as well.
Here’s the link: http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/15/good-morning/?scp=1&sq=lens&st=cse.

BURN is my ‘HOME’ of photography.
I have never seen any mentors and any places like David Alan Harvey and Burn.
He has devoted all his efforts and times for emerging photographers and photography.
I know that it is very easy to say something but it is very hard to do something.
We all emerging photographers have some dreams of our own.
He is the ONLY man who has made it to come true.
I really really THANKS to David Alan Harvey and Burn as a photographer!

p.s.) Panos, Congratulations on your exhibition!
I really want to see your prints of works. :)))
Hope you to have great success of photography!
Best wishes,

Dearest BURN magazine,

My Civilians fiends have problem with the Support Button

HIGHLIGHTED …it needs to be HIGHLIGHTED…cannot see…
ATTENTION,ATTENTION

thanks patricia :ø)
yes.. wasted.. slept on it – it may come accross a little negative and i´m still open to ideas, although i love it.

tor capa has his own blog now.. just getting a couple of good posts online and will email you the link :ø)
x

Kyunghee Lee,

Where have you been? Welcome back and YES

MR. SEAN is the first BURNIAN to be “burned”. We are so prou of him !!!
Let’s see how gracefully he will pass the “torch” to our new EPF this year !!!

OIME, I LOVE YOU ALL !

Love you Imants…I am a fan :)

That’s why Mr.Harvey is still waiting for your to edit…
Now we ALL know what the heik you are doing…:)

OIME, MR.HARVEY !!! Do NOT try to SKYPE IMANTS…nope
No burb book, no finalist…FOCUS,FOCUS IMANT …let the pigs alone…
SHOOT …you took that literally, don’t u :))

P.S in the BACK …again…do I look like a CIVILIAN ?
…oups, I am a Civilian…WTF or no?

Imant
I’ll second that
:))))))))))))

What NOT to LOVE !!!

VIVA ! I am in love…again…pavlova with ouzo or no?

OR IMANTS ON PAVLOVA… I am bad …today …Enough

Focus Civilian, FOCUS !!

P.S Trauma center OPEN 24/7

MR.HARVEY ,

The trauma center is on aisle 2 ” on the roll” .
Personal appearance neglect, depression, feeling of emptiness, envy, anger…
Please, proceed to the correct aisle…
FOCUS, Focus…damnit
that is your problem…:))

VIVA ERICA !!!!

Did you submit? Are we waiting for a book?

P.S how was the coffee with the girls…you know…NY style?

(blush) Erica, sweet!

burn is indeed unique in that friendships develop long before real meetings ever take place, only to grow after they do… AND we get to learn a boatload about photography in the process!

Hope to meet many more of you at Look3!

Now CIV, I am 100% true-blue Aussie, and all this talk of pavlova is making me yearn for a slice…
Pavlova, meat pies w/peas, bbq and beer. The true flavors of Australia.

Panos, congratulations!

Congrats to all the EPF finalists – can’t wait to see your work as it is revealed!

A beautiful day in New York!!! Life is good!

ALL….one more thing….
HAIK & JARED IORIO….
put a little slideshow in order from Friday-show night..
click below:

http://conversesrouges.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/panos-exhibit/index.html

ALL

LANCE has gone public :) with Thirst!

http://www.npr.org/blogs/pictureshow/2009/05/thirst_for_grit.html

and congrats to you too, panos..

thank you Erica…
:)

PANOS – i did. saw lots of old friends, met many new ones… had a lovely dinner with erica and kerry. saw anna-maria (berry-jester) and kelly-lynn james. bought 8 new photo books and enjoyed the new york photo festival. will we be seeing you at LOOK???

Just looking at the NYT’s new photo blog, “Lens.” Kinda hard to navigate. Lots of images. Drowning in images. Too many images. Books are better than the web. Something concrete. Something real.

But the web is the future of photography. .

Jim,
the web is like the “telephone” or the “tv”…or the “ipod” or the “radio” or a “newspaper”
just a form of communication… nothing more…

definitely NOT the future of photography or anything…
maybe You or Patricia or one of the finalists…here…could be the future
but… only … only if we keep on shooting….
the next “great” picture and the “next” great essay ( and the mind behind it )
could be the future of photography… but definitely not the web…

Patricia…
i wanna thank Haik and Jared once again for the slideshow and not only….
they set up the whole show…They both put ridiculous amounts of personal
work and MONEY for that one night….
thank you again

Looks like I’m wearing “your” T-Shirt Charles..
:))))
Thanks again…

PANOS,
You starving Venice free spirit big mouth big hard truth teller Greek lost boy…
you made Civilians so PROUD …

HAIK,
if I wish for ONE wish, I will WISH for a FRIEND like you…

JARED,
you have been picked as the SEXIEST “photolooking” in the block…
Civilians voted again…

P.S Panos you are tall…why did you put so many photos on the floor…??
Weird,it feels like VENICE !!!!!!!!!!
and who is the BEAUTIFUL GIRL…DID i miss something? Freida was there with the pink…but the little fireball over there???…Please SUPPORT with TEXT…!!

Fuck yeah Panos! You know, that particular image, when Katrina struck I was sitting in Seattle feeling helpless and then I decided to do a limited edition of that image. If somebody donated $200 or more to the charity of their choice and sent me the receipt they got an 11X14 fiber print (in an edition of 85). The edition went in a couple of days and a lot of people were inspired to donate more than that. I think in the end it was more than $22,000. I probably could have done a lot more, but man, printing, and packaging 85 was about my limit.

So I think of that whenever I see that picture.

When are you back in Seatown? We just bought a big new/old (1909) house that well be moving into probably end of June. You’re always welcome.

CP

OIME,

I just got this … 1909 …Fixer upper…I was born 1909 …GOOD LUCK , my man !!!

Glad to see the “Venice” opening slideshow, Panos, and Jared and Haik. Looks like it was a funky, no fuss, fun evening, too bad we can’t put names on the few Burnian faces present.

PS: Whose 12 string acoustic was that, Panos?

hahaha, Gracie..i posted mine and you were posting yours! WTF? here’s the fire? huh?? don’t get it..am tired but, huh? I didn’t write WTF!..not this time, another time yeah but not this time..and um, WTF means What The F**k..

GRACIE

“…is this magazine about the greats trying think about technic
blah – blah – blah
or can any of us just watch from an UNcalibrated machine
sipping on peach mango tea, rocking from a torn up chair
and taking it easy, looking at nice little pictures
of nice little people reminding us of memories
of how good life was when we were little people ourselves?

sometimes i feel the more you know about the how tos
and the why tos, we get lost in the maze of knowing
– and if that is how it’s going to be
i am pretty happy not knowing… and just knowing where the shutter is”

Gracie, believe it or not you REALLY nailed what the issues were for me when i looked at that essay. Flash and dazzle technique or a captivating alternative reality that we can imagine just for a minute being a part of..an escape from the humdrum adult world and just slipping away to some delta island on the other end of the world? Love what you said. You simply nailed it right to the wall. In your usual elegantly sweet way.

love ya honeychild
kat~

WTF means WE are THE FIRE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WE THE FIRE !!!!!!!!! WTF

LOVEEEEEEEEEEEEE YOU MY GRACIE ,our muse
LOVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE YOU KATIE, the street fighter
YOU ROCK MY TWO
WTF LOVE YOU SO MUCH…

P.S DON’T ever ever mix pavlova and ouzo…EVERRRRRRRR
Buzzing like I am in VENICE… Amore mio…nanannanann !!!!!!!

Blink I will be late.

DAH = Do As Harvey or Dance As Harvey…

Come on help me out BURNIANS… !!!

Good night you bunch of chemical smelling, pixel loving philosophers. Been MIA for a while…swine flu, house changing and new horizons. Look forward to catching-up.
Jan

JARED !!!
YES, I had nothing to do with the result… I was born 1909…
but you are HOT according to Civilian records…Finalist in our records :)

PANOS !!!
YOU Magnetic wall !!!

JAN !!!
We were calling your name…Welcome back…C’EST TOUT…oime, dyslexic friends be ready!

KATIE !!!
24 hours …are you ready ???

BOB !!!
where is the birthday photos…I am waiting…THE ONLY ONE BOB BLACK !!!

DID I TELL YOU ???

Civilian

You are the darlingest person to remember…i am COUNTING THE HOURS…down,,down down till i hold her in my arms..for like one second and then she’ll be off to see her friends. But i will be happy knowing she’s back in her own country, her own house, her own room. Thank you, thank you for remembering!

JAN!!!!

YOU ARE BACK YOU DIRTY DOG!!! where the hell have you been? You come back here all muddy and wet and your fur smelling like you rolled in something dead, now get in here and don’t think about escaping again, hear me?! Here, here’s a dog biscuit..so glad you’re back!

muchos hugs
kathie

GOOD ENERGY

EVERYONE we have BURNIANS on the airplanes …

P.S ok, please, can you put her on BURN when she will settle in…I wanna see her…
go ZZZZZ…i want you to look fresh…and grandma too…give her her pills :)))

I WANT NEW BLOOD !!!!!!!!!!
I KNOW YOU ARE OUT THERE …COME ON…
Look at me …I am just a Civilian… I want NEW blood…JOIN BURN …WTF

bob – HAPPY BRUFDEEE.. have a great year / decade / and all..

lance – yesyes..

panos – great description of the web.. really like what you did with the exhibition.. the big prints looked great..

haik n jared – great snaps.. nicely done..

all – grow a beard by mistake.. it is the way forward

:ø)=

LANCE

Big congrats, man! NPR is big time and the edit looks great. Can’t wait for the book. See you in C’ville in a few weeks ;=)

Patricia

KATIE,
loving ZZZZZ
on me!!!

MR.HARVEY,
THANK YOU, THANK YOU with your recent posting:
“…CIVILIAN is that he NEVER loses his cool no matter what is coming at him…i have never had a blogger as an actual role model, but CIVILIAN in this regard surely should be for all of us…i think it turns out that his background as a community organizer is the perfect background …”
You didn’t have to go all this way…Thanks anyway!

MR.POWERS,
Will you accept my KEY for your GREEK house.
I have proposed to you before but I want you to know that :
I LOVE YOU !!!!!!!!!!!

P.S BURN Magazine, I know you are extra busy BUT if we rub PLATO the wrong way ,can we have a refund?
No need for immediate response !!!
VIVA, VIVA, VIVA, VIVA, VIVA, VIVA
beer on Jim cause he got a refund ( To be perceived as a joke)

Civilian,
have you ever tried 二锅头 ( instead of Ouzo) ? Just asking.

ha ha… have you ever tried ???

HA,HA…Let’s laugh like MR. DAH!
HAVE you ever tried?

erguotou rotgut on SIDNEY !!

Thaddeus

just wanted to say thanks for the mention of me as a note worthy photographer shooting portraits. Was having sort of an unfortunate morning, and reading that warmed my heart, it was very sweet of you, really. The amount of hours that I spend working on things alone is a bit against my nature and makes it a challenge for me to keep on at full speed always, and in a way that I don’t fully understand it does help to hear that the work does make an impact. The comedic thing is that of late it has become a little bit of a pet peeve of mine to be thought of only as a portrait photographer..I completely understand why I am but in my heart I am just “a photographer”. Hopefully the new project that will be up here on burn at some point will help to illustrate that..but my point is, being called a note worthy portrait photog by you was quite touching.

DAH –

Email in your inbox – jarediorio [at] gmail [dot] com

no need to reply…FOCUS,my man
FOCUS

Civilian

Hey! Katharina has come to Buzz…She knocked on your door and paid you a smile..(spfffttt…i think she deserves a key but i don´t want to tell you what to do with your own little greek cottage) But let me tell you, Civi, she´s the real deal..

gotta go..more work!
kat-

KATIA, I should ask, do you engage kids in these frames of mind? (nasty, disrespectful, aggressive?)

Vasilios..

yes Brooklyn..and I agree, I talk with/ photograph youth here often without issue. They were amped up as earlier there was a fight between two girls, and what seemed to be 100 kids were running through the streets to try to catch it…a lot of the kids lived in the Red Hook projects. Summer fever madness maybe..

HI ALL – I AM GOING TO POST THIS ON BOTH LINKS…

Anton helped me designs a “bumper sticker” to sell at LOOK3 this year….

What Happens at LOOK3
Stays at LOOK3…
(and ends up on Burn.)

Erica – I was recently in red hook… As commonplace as this is to say there are always bad seeds around. But sometimes flukes occur, pack mentalities develop and then ill behaviors manifest in peoples/group that normally wouldn’t. Summer madness is a good way to put it, and the adrenaline from a blood-y-nose-lust for youngsters can be overwhelming.

I’m done some work in the Bushwick area (i live in betwixt in east williamsburg) and there are definitely rougher spots than others… and of course bed-sty has a stigma all of its own.

I find it interesting to hear others experience in this area. I have yet to experience something too distasteful other than the colorful language that kids engage in to act like adults (and adults engage in to act like children)

Ross – the times have certainly changed from your view – and my own. I hate to say it because its so circumstantial, but it is less safe today than in the past; the culprit? . I think one of the most important thing for photographers delving into these issues is two-fold:
1) giving a non-threatening demeanor and 2) having an uncanny ability to disarm – and now’n’days more than ever.

hi katiecakes
would you consider sharing
megadrippinsokolitsyrup pistachio ice cream
in the worlds-widest-waffle cone with me
a high point of your day?

civi,
focusing i am, dont think youre jerry springer.
but yeah as you say,
‘love and take care of each other’

Gracie

hahaha, yeah, like i could stick my entire face in a waffle cone right about now..and Erica talks about tough kids out on the street? street kids are a piece of cake compared to the low flying UFO´s that come at a person online..so heya, Gracie! wazzup? You got pistachio ice cream you´re giving away? Think i´ll just plunk myself down at your kitchen table and grab a spoon. Guess what? In 21 hours my baby comes home from Madrid!!! i´m so excited i can´t think straight..which should be obvious to anyone reading Burn tonight :))

how are you and your wee poets?

hugZ
kat

Gracie our Muse..our lady in blond curls..

truer words have not passed my eyeballs in quite some time..i love pistachio ice cream..i love nuts. i love tough kids, i love being a mom..i love YOU!

what else matters?

AMOR!

bless your blessed family
kat-

Brooklyn, Venice, Miami, Costa Rica,Toronto, China,Paris,Athens…same stories,different names.
To My Erica,

Sometimes I have a feeling that I want to bunch some of their faces…YES,I the CIVILIAN
BUT at the same time I want to take those same faces and SQUEEZE them so hard from love and admiration!
What I want to say is MAYBE they “feel you” that you ARE NOT ONE OF THEM. They can SMELL you…
See, Katia has a unique smell,it goes well with them…

Anyways, BE you and ONLY you, You are AMAZING,and if you SMELL different maybe you will have to disengage.
Maybe your true calling is elsewhere…!!!!!
LOVE YOU ERICA

KATHARINA HESSE,

KATHARINA AS Hipparchia the Cynic…
You are my role model …I am trying to cut and paste YOUR bio from your website but I have NO luck!
YOUR WEBSITE ROCKS !!!!!!!!!!

KATHARINA if you will read this , your key is ready …
and you are HOT too…hmmm….?

P.S Katie…I knew YOU are MY EYES and my ears !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOVE ,ALL we need is LOVE…

Civilian,
ha ha. thanks for the key…
Me a role model ? Don’t think so !

TO BOB BLACK,

Bob U Rock Now = B U R N

Ross / Vasilios..thanks..it was a weird day..the man who called the police was an instant target, was jumped, these kids were only about 13..it’s as if all fear/respect for elders is gone..i guess that what was I was getting too, until I stayed and stayed, then they warmed..

KATIA yes yes. to see the changes in a couple of the boys faces, the way they were leaning in to hear what I was saying, and shussing the other ones who were still taunting..it was touching, they asked if I was going to come back..I think it will have to be an organic situation if it unfolds, I don’t think I can choose this right now..

KATIA

xo..I may bring a couple of books over to show them..mostly to show how / why their stories are important too..the concern/ assumption is that I’d only want their image to do them harm, and it would be great for them to get that my interest was because they are worthwhile..

erica mcdonald
May 21, 2009 at 7:07 am

“..it was touching, they asked if I was going to come back..I think it will have to be an organic situation if it unfolds, I don’t think I can choose this right now..”

katia roberts
May 21, 2009 at 7:25 am

erica–
please stay in touch with them, however intermittently, if at all possible.
they ARE “lost” and i feel your presence among them would remind them
what goodness is. a truly caring adult in their midst could mean
the difference between being lost.. and found.
THANK YOU for existing …”

ERICA WE BELIEVE IN YOU THAT YOU BELIEVE IN THEM AND THEY BELIEVE IN YOU…
hmmm…PLEASE ENGAGE, please ENGAGE…you might “smell” like them after all??

LOVE what else to ASK for???

“they are worthwhile”,..yes, yes and Yes.

and this i say with conviction, that
underneath their posturing and bravado they are good
and kind and want nothing more than to be loved.

please bring them the books.
a tear slides down my cheek to think of it..

<3

k.

“iamkatia

this blog is about my relationship with many of the homeless street youth in seattle.”

I AM KATIA
I AM KATIA
I AM KATIA

What a blog …Me Civilian I am Speechless …
I want to say THANK YOU but I have so many tears…

also, sorry for the typos..sooo many interruptions!

kat

Where is Lassal,Asher, Martin B, Abele, Tom Hyde, Paul T, Sofia, Patricia…?

Where is ……., …….,……..,……..,…..,?

WHERE ARE you? I NEED NEW BLOOD , ONE DOWN 999 TO GO !!!!

KAT..

yes, all good things to remember..I am glad you are involved with the kids.

I actually was involved with a ‘shooting back’ type of photo program for at risk kids in Bed Stuy..and these kids had up big walls and had it tough (which really surfaced in showing Gene Richard’s Cocaine book and Donna F’s Living with the Enemy with comments like “looks like my mom after she..” and “I could get one of my step-dad like that doing..”) so i am familiar with the walk..but these kids yesterday, it was the absolute disregard for adult /authority and for each other that got to me..they really wanted to see these 2 girls harm each other, had no problem hurting the man who made the police call, and certainly could have turned on me if it didn’t play out as it did..but I’ve said enough on the whole thing.

David,

here it is: http://conversesrouges.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/panos-exhibit/index.html

Erica

you know, i think the proof that a society is broken is when the kids get just like this..what you witnessed yesterday. It has been happening here too. i have seen it on the news but have not personally witnessed it. And it´s profoundly shocking in this country. Yes, perhaps i am very naive about my experiences because i have always been treated so well by kids even when they are thieves, live on the street and feared by locals. I think i would have been shaken up badly if i saw what you did, felt that anarchy, smelled that violent energy..something i am sure that would have literally made my blood run cold. The worst thing that happens to me is some kids will approach and i can feel that they are not good..right then, with that group, i can feel the danger. And i scram like Michael Jackson´s ¨beat it¨.

I hope you never experience such a thing as that again. i feel sure that you won´t. Best of luck and success with your project. i REALLY look forward to seeing it because you have a wonderful eye for the soul within.

hugz
kathleen

Panos, Katharina

Kat, thanks for posting the slide show..i enjoyed it totally..Panos, congratulations..the slide show made me feel like i was one of the happy revelers..and your prints, ohmygod, they looked amazing at that size. So fabulous..loved them!

best!
kathleen

Congrats on both the exhibition and your birthday! Interesting stuff and going with the small prints as well was a good idea. Good to not see an un-pretentious exhibition!
You should check out http://www.jarisilomaki.com and his work. I have seen two of his exhibitions and he basically just nails the prints to the well. Anders Petersen also did that on a recent exhibition. Masao Yamamoto and his working methods are also interesting.

Cheers

Thank you Martin…
:))))))
Thank u for the links..
Yes I was trying to “recreate”
a “Venice beach feeling”..
In a white empty room with no sand either…
And no frames…

PANOS
Happy Happy Day to you!!
40+ trips around the sun…
Enjoy your special day….
XOX

PANOS ,

HAPPY BIRTHDAY
THAT’S For YOU , YOU are a BURNIAN originale !!! VIVA

HAPPY BIRTHDAY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eLFk0I-lCI&feature=related

Xronia Polla = Good Years ( translations):))))))
Civilians voted – you will succeed …

FROM THE CIVILIANS OF THE WORLD:

THANK YOU HAIK,
WE have No clue how you are looking BUT you Must be HOT too!!!

Thank u CIVI and Laura Montanari for
sending me wishes in Greek ..!!?
Viva Italia and viva France ( Audrey merci..)
and viva Germany… Martin..
Hey Beijing.:)
What up!!!

PANOS – HAPPY BIRTHDAY MI AMIGO!!! hugs from baja, california!

will watch the link when i get back and the internet is not so slow.

Civlian

SHE´S HERE!!! (and already in bed asleep..which is fine cuz i know exactly where she is for a change, haha)

Haik:

You are one helluva good person. I mean that.

Panos..

You´re right, credit goes where credit´s due (haha, i first typed ´dude´i love a good ironic typo) Haik is such a great friend to you..and believe me you could do a LOT worse than having someone like Haik to call friend…I think we could all do a lot worse..HAIK, you´re great!

Wendy

You´re another one..i agree with DAH, you are always smiling, always such a joy..i smile right back atcha whenever i see your name always followed by your signature long line of words, choreografed so beautifully into a white column of smilig good cheer. Just thought i´d say that..particularly tonight when the site is so serious, so dug in against a blizzard of opinions and heavy handed discussion. I am taking a breath before i dive in…………or not. But your post is a good reminder to me that i´m here for the photos and not for the angst.

ciaio chica
kat-

TO ALL,

This is a GOOD point. CONSIDER :

“ciara
May 21, 2009 at 9:37 am
Is it possible that some of the confusion may have crept in because the photographer’s first language isn’t English?”

THANK YOU ALLLLL, please don’t ger trapped in the WEB :)

oups…
WENDY, WENDY, WENDY,

from now on ,you will be called THE BURNING SMILE …

gmornin
david bo
david ba
david ah

coffee anyone?

gracie..
i´ve now drunk so much coffee today that i am wired in head and want to fly away like my full stops and commas who went missing this way or the space between words whicharegoingastraysonocoffeeformealthoughheresoneforthee
LD

NO, we are NOT “trapped”,

we are just playing a trick and hiding in the barn !!!!!!!!!!

I am gonna bring some matches too in my way back in case you are stop BUTNING …yeah right..
Laughing like You with you at you …ESL needed :))))

LOVE ME TENDER…nananan…LOVE me…
J,K,G,DB,BB,PS,H,K,W,D,P,…YEEEAAAAAAAA, HAAAAAAAAAAA…Spacecowboy…?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

ANTON / ERICA / ALL

“whatever you do, DO NOT INTERACT with disrespecting or demeaning comments. let the comment stand like a sore thumb, ignored by all. it’s the only way.”

“I think this is now the correct approach…. I just want to be clear that this isn’t about freezing anyone out… it is about addressing the behaviour which is problematic and unproductive.”

I couldn’t agree more.

Anton has provided the antidote to this recent infection, it’s now in our control to stomp out this behaviour; it’s clear if we keep going on this way it’s materially undermining the health of our future.

AUDREY

thanks for the comment.
i showed a piece of work one of my students is doing today, which was directly inspired by your parents essay.. i´d love to show you some of what alex is doing.. although i could let him do it himself..

hmm.. if you go to my facebook homepage, alexander left the second last comment..
actually – will dig out his email and email you both..
yes.
sorted
(for ***s and ****z)
dx

AND

the finalist who dropped out of the EPF HAS ALREADY WON IT:::
they have no barriers, conditions, excuses nor requirements..
as with all who are photographing what they want to..

CONGRATULATIONS TO THEM.

beers
davidx

Maybe they should allow mulligans for posts that miss.

….Jim ,excellent idea…:)))))))))))
write anything u like but $1 per post……….
(for last year only i probably owe BURN around $10,000…
laughing………..)

Could fund the gallery that way. First post is free, additional posts $1 each.

… u know Jim… maybe it started like a joke but it totally
makes sense… if we want to vent or plug in our work and shows
we should pay…
viva America… land of the “nothing’s free”…
love y’all…
happy MEMORIAL weekend my fellow Americans….

Panos/Jim ;)))))))))))))))))))))))))

i think i’d owe BURN 100,000,000 ;)))….(maybe more for the 3 1/2 years at LS and year at Magnum)…wait until the photobook is published with my essays ;)))))…actually, i have a new essay to send to burn (maybe by years end): only words, with pics at the end ;)))…but, i owe Marina more, since i give her heart-BURN with all my posts and swings ;))))))))…..and Civilian too, since he’s one of the few that actually hikes through my posts ;))))…and maybe the only guy that read my entire ‘excerpt’ from Bones that Burn published…(excluding Lance, Patricia, Lisa and my wife, who read it all)…

but i’ll take the extra credit to my account…by i still think i’ll be in arears ;))))…for years ;))))…i must buy Herve a bottle of red too, since i’ve given him head-aches for 2 1’/2 years ;)))..

running
hugs
bob

“burn operator” to panos…
“… sorry mr skoulidas but your credit card just declined…
try again later…”
laughing……..

vote for the party!

DAH,
Who was the photographer who dropped out? I’m interested and so is probably everyone else.. Or can he come forward? Would be interesting to know.

Cheers

TO BOB BLACK,

I am in AWE !!!

You owe me 2cents…hmmm almost one euro…Free ESL Lessons, or no?
BUT
You owe MARINA and DIMA …a lifetime membership to the nearest SPA or something …
My man, between I and you, I wish you can limit your postings to one page ( 300 words).

Second thought…nope…WTF…you are DA MAN…We love YOU the way you are !!!

SHOOT BURNIANS !!!!go out and shoot!!!

KATIE,JULIETTE,MYGRACIE,HAIK,KATHATINA, DAVIDB,AUDREY,WENDY,
JOEEEEEEEEE,PAT,JARED,MARCIN, REIMAR
ANDREWB, STELIOS,THEODORIS,ZISKAR,DIMITRIOS,
CARRIE,LAURA, KERRY,TOMY,IMMANTS,OIME……..

enough, I got to go find my matches…SHOOT damnit…I will come back cause

Beyond Here Lies Nothin’

KATIE, street fighter

WAKE UPPPPPPPPPPPP

WAKE UPPPPPPPPPPPP
WAKE UOOOOOOOOOOOOPpppp!!!!

I am so HAPPY for you !!!!!!!!!!
GOOD NEWS FOR YOU …Got to go …Formula one in MONACO but YOU

MRS.KATHLEEN FONSECA….PARTY partypartyparty !!!!!!!!!
BURN with LOVE

TO THE UNIVERSE,

“there are so many in our audience who are quite literally afraid to speak….they are afraid of being ridiculed or attacked…our comment section is not seen as a friendly place nor a place of thoughtful discussion by 99% of our readers who do not comment…..that is just ” DAH

I AM IN LOVE WITH BURN
I DON’T CARE …
IF I LOOSE MY MIND…
CAUSE I AM ALREADY CURSED…

DON’T be afraid…take the risk…you will cry the first few days
BUT you ARE ALREADY CURSED…!!!!

every day
we started fighting
every night
we fell in love…

BOB BLACK and DAH,

I have emailed both of you with a first stab at a single-picture-and-extended-word-essay idea. Check your respective email boxes.

Cheers,

Sidney

David b,

i saw the work of Alex, very great work! You can be proud!

Best, audrey

.. and so can you audrey – for inspiring alex last september with your work..

Panos, I don’t speak about same Alex… Alexander Rybak is the winner in the eurovision and it would seem that David B is very proud it too!!

Ps: wow, the Norwegian dancers raise very high their leg!!

David, that brings back scary memories “The Electric Koolaid Acid Test.” Think I’ll pass. ;)

MR.HARVEY,

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm… THAT is the HAPPIEST DAY OF MY LIFE IN BURN !
I had a meeting with other Civilians and we are extremely honored
BUT
I am allergic to official roles…
We promise though that we will keep BURNing
and oime… We are so many…hmmmm:)))

THANK YOU MR.HARVEY …you will succeed !!!

P.S Mr.DAH can I play BOUZOUKI ? on the road…I am always on the road looking for the best TAVERNAS!!
We can BURN UNSTOPPABLE :)))

Mr.Harvey:

“If a man has a talent and cannot use it, he has failed. If he has a talent and uses only half of it, he has partly failed. If he has a talent and learns somehow to use the whole of it, he has gloriously succeeded, and won a satisfaction and a triumph few men ever know.”

Tom Wolfe

P.S WHAT not to LOVE !!!!!!!!!! 8 more keys to GO!!!!
I’ve heard that Virginia nuts are the best! and ham too!

P.S I hope Socrates is not reading BURN …OIME …you guys DO not know where to stop…

It’s a mess again in the “finalist room ”

MR.DAH take your “polaroid” and get out and shoot …
I AM WAITING FOR YOUR BOOK…YOU PROMISED…!!!

oups !!!

I meant …WANT TO JOIN !!!
i blame Plato…

Civi: for you…and then im done for the weekend…another part of something long i’ve been writing, which will be part of the book….

FACES: Faces gather time along their edges, sprockets of light pitched around thumb-bowed shadow, the way milk rims the lip and bottom-dip of a glass, the way bone sedimentizes sentiment pitched from the age and voice of the earth, the way glass and stone color from exposure. We speak of time, we speak of faces, we seldom speak of how these cauterizes and coalesces into some odd unknowing. How is it that we distinguish one face from all the others? How is it that we speak of others and ourselves through an algebra of memory, speak of the faces that we have seen or known distinguished into certainty. What else is there in our knowing, at the heart of the well of our remembrance? How is it that we can ever photograph a face, for is it not the deceit (we believe we know another and ourselves by passing through the threshold of the face) that engines our operative waking? Is it not the very illusion under which we, photographers and non-photographers alike, negotiate and arrive each day we awaken and categorize neatly the arrangement of those surrounding us? How else, initially (and over recollected time) do we begin to work out an understanding of someone, let alone ourselves, then by quickly drinking up the constellation of meaning and unmeaning of a face. Recall someone: face or action, which do you see initially? Can a person’s behaviour and character and life remain faceless? To the contrary, can we not picture and construct a face without action? Then what about the blind, what is etched upon their skull and lithe memorial imagery? You should know I am blind in one eye and struggled as a child with un-seeing. At at early age, and often to my horror, i learned that each face is navigable but not attainable. In fact, I have spent the better part of my life trying to decipher what it is that I see when I look into the mirror: how is it that this chimera, this insolvable jigsaw is possibly me. When I became a photographer this became an ethical question: if I could not understand this revenant shell as me (my face yes, but surely not the “I” that is “me.”), how then to photograph someone else, let alone their face? I have not yet solved this quandary. For several years now, I have been working on a long project about faces, a personal journey apart from my other work in pursuit of that reconciliation. The project is embarrassingly Narcissistic. You should know the truth about this project. Every other project I work on, every roll of film that I expose, involves taking a few photographs of the subject faces, stripped of their context, their environment, stripped of all the surrounding earth-gravel and light-dust that we normally associate with photography, even at the risk of subverting the intent of the original projection I am working on. I often (only after people are comfortable) take a few extreme, close-up photographs, trying to get as close to people as I can, as if digging into a mirror. Soon, the disorienting calculus sets in: closeness, infinitely halved. Long exposures, focused, out-of-focus, short exposures, variable depths of field, all jostling in an effort to see how much can be removed in order to still retain the face of the “I’ or the “You.” And, I should add that I always photograph myself at least once each time before I unspool the film from camera and often for the last frame. It is a diary of failure: how far away, how licked-over-distance in the print of a smudge of space: breath between a barracks of lens and light. These photographs are a water-drop nub from this series, which is hopelessly large and seemingly endless. On good days, I think it’s the rhyme around which the rest of my photography and projects revolve and are resolved. On poor days, I feel that again I have failed to understand or properly photograph those faces around me. Failure is nothing new to any of us, and that principle is the nexus around which these simple images should be fingered. In some sense, they are different from most of my work: less and more. I continue to photograph even when I have not yet understood how to begin. Bereft. Beating. Brook. Fall upon me.

II

Everything is always unfinished, always, its in the swallowing of that, sometimes with joy sometimes with exhaustion, that sometimes it begins to make sense…

the swerve and curve of witnessing…

nothing is ever finished, but often we stop or it stops us, sometimes gently sometimes cold…..

twists of braided sticks of time….

I face I

bb

who plays bass???
——————

I do (though you never seem to notice when I offer my help, David. Maybe this time….)

BOBB FOR YOU ,

…”Can a person’s behavior and character and life remain faceless? “………

What is the title of the book?? When is gonna be out? Can I have a signed copy?
You have a way with writing…!!! KATIE is Bob your lost brother…?
Nope…BOB you are really a gentle and loyal SOUL …BUT

784 words count …FOCUS , my man Focus…it took me 36 minutes to read aloud …!!
OIME 784…no kidding:)))))))))))))

Nothing is ever finished…

Herve plays Bass !
———————

I will BE Back !!!

hey – clarinet, sax, guitar and i play blues harmonica too..
used to be in a ´band´ called ¨the love yo-yo´s¨..
we were rubbish.
i was terrible.. stupid..
AM I IN?

Herve,

If you read the first string of posts on Jenn’s essay you might get the impressions that in light of the reality, there was essentially a witch hunt by some knee-jerk monster: first targeting her text, then targeting the legality of her effort, then targeting her own sense of humanity for the effort, then targeting her betrayal of the people that gave her access, then insinuating this was another essay that was a candidate for pulling, then and only then after loads of riot-inciting and finally learning the absurdity of his witch hunt, (about forty!!! comments later) did this monster even begin to offer up something mildly constructive and never an apology for the wild initial accusations.

again, why the heck would anyone feel compelled to wade into that Herve? Jenn’s calibre of effort, talent, and direction warrants loads more respect than this. And i don’t know her personally, she could be a monster, but her works suggests otherwise.

at the very least her time is worth more than this, it was simply more efficient to let the shoot-from-the-hip imbecile figure out for himself how absurd his ideas were, especially when there was no chance for an apology after the imbecile learned how obnoxious they were as has been shown in the past. Imagine the typing-frenzy-alternative to even begin to turn that loose-canon around once it got started? Would you enjoy that Herve? Actually you might, you love to argue, not a bad thing, but not everyone’s desire.

the irony for me for this specific incident is that one of the best minds at Burn, Mike, actually stated in this same thread that this imbecile is not-polite, but spot on. Well Mike, looking specifically at this most recent effort and the effort you chose to defend, i just don’t see it that way, and i’ll never let you forget it.

Basically Herve, we made the bed, we have to sleep in it, and it’s no wonder it’s lonely sometimes. Now this monster thinks he is doing us a favour by being so absurdly polarised, rude, and out right obnoxious towards each person’s work, but if we don’t get any interplay between the authors and ‘us‘ as an audience, who’s really suffering?

And sorry Herve, this low-author participation is an epidemic that started long before the EPF, I think you’ll find it linked closely to the person that the one-comment-per-post was entirely instigated by.

Kind Regards,

Joe

And I remain disturbed at the ethics of exploiting people locked in an institution for the insane who don’t have the capacity to give permission for a photographer to walk through the doors of the institution that is supposed to be protecting them and use their names and images. It’s wrong.

¨I remain disturbed at the ethics of exploiting people locked in an institution for the insane who don’t have the capacity to give permission for a photographer to walk through the doors of the institution that is supposed to be protecting them and use their names and images. It’s wrong.¨

_________________

oh god jim – are you talking about nightclub photography?

Just responding to Joe’s post. :)

yes, you are doing Fine…I am going to bring some whiskey too!

No feta cheese…Davidb you are lucky …you ended with ONLY a done infection…

It’s INSANE here…what Not to LOVE ?

Had you stuck to brie, you would have probably ended up with high blood pressure. Something’s gonna get you.

goodness me..

don´t we all want the contributors of burn to come away with a positive experience?
especially those who might already be feeling shy at the exposure of the EPF announcement?

hillary and her email reminded me just how real the people showing there work here are.. how real we all are.. apart from civilian who is HYPER real.. HYPER kind.. HYPER real.

off for the night.. gonna tuck in my mini baby bell and switch on the hi-fi.

DAH,
That’s just amazing and very impressive. He or she is an inspiration to us all and deserves a lot of credit.

AndrewB
I wish your wife a quick recovery.
Don’t worry about converses rouges – you have your own share of shoes to tie it seems :)
Best to you and your family – hope things are back to normal sooner than you expect.

Haik, what do you expect from a “monster?” ;)

Yep. The essay has been around a while. I think he won some kind of grant for it last year.

As relatively little money and recognition as there is to fund new photographers, I hope some of the EPF finalists have new projects that haven’t already won other awards.

DAH

I would like to thank you for the honor of providing whatever assistance i can, to the best of my ability, for as long as you want me, for…wait, hold on, excuse me…it´s my daughter, she´s just..wait, JUILETTE, IF YOU DON´T TURN DOWN THAT MUSIC I´M GONNA SMACK YOU SILLY, TIE YOU UP IN THE CELLAR AGAIN AND NOT LET YOU OUT TO GO BACK TO CLASSES AND YOU CAN JUST FORGET YOUR BREAD AND WATER TONIGHT…ok, so, where was i? yes, i was so humbly grateful for your comment about my mothering skills. In truth, being a mother is the greatest gift, the proudest job..wait..ok, this is it..JULIE, I AM COMING IN THERE WITH THE BELT AND I AM GONNA SMACK THOSE BRACES RIGHT OFF YOUR TEETH!!! I´VE HAD IT, REALLY, THIS MOTHER SHIT HAS ABOUT SENT ME AROUND THE BEND, YOU KIDS ARE JUST A BUNCH OF UNGRATEFUL FREELOADERS, NEVER OBEY OR TAKE YOUR ADVICE, COME IN AT 5AM, DON´T DO YOUR DISHES, THROW YOUR TOWELS ON THE FLOOR, TALK BACK, PIERCE YOUR BELLY BUTTONS AND WHO KNOWS WHAT ELSE AND NEVER SAY THANK YOU..I´VE HAD IT, I AM LEAVING HOME, GOING TO LOOK3 AND THERE WILL BE NO FORWARDING ADDRESS, DO YOU HEAR ME, JULIE???????..yes, ok i´m back now, well..as i was saying, being a mother is a humbling experience and my children are the best things i have ever done. What? Did you ask whether i will uphold the integrity of Burn and will i always be honest, truthful, moral and unafraid to say what must be said? Oh yes, as a mom, you have my word on it.

best!
kat-

Eric

*boohoo*..no, that Look3 stuff was just an empty threat. But shhhh..don´t tell that to my daughter..she really thinks i´m going; she turned that music right down and then ran around the house picking up her sneakers, her books, her drug paraphernalia, haha…just kidding..

*boohoo*..i WISH i could go!

thanks-a-lot!
kat-

KATIE,

My street fighter…hmmmm…have you ever seen the SUPER NANNY …TV series!
I recommend the series for all the mommies !!

NOW, Go back in the room and tell to our beautiful Julie HOW MUCH YOU LOVE HER…
It’s just that since she came You had no chance to BE here…and Now you are BURNING!!!!
Addiction is a weird thing…

P.S LOUD family but they LOVE each other INSANELY :))))))))))))
I am proud like a peacock :))

OIME !!!

DID you see that we have a new BURNIAN!!!!
WELCOME MRS.Cassandra Adams
CASSANDRA Wrote:

“… I have NO background in photography, so I won’t attempt to address the technical characteristics of your piece. However, I am working on my PhD IN CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGY and felt that you might welcome a different perspective…I think the piece is aptly named and the feeling of being trapped is clearly felt in most of the images. I have to say that I picked up on the jail context much more quickly than I picked up your ….
My strongest critique is that, as a photographic CIVILIAN, I was distracted from the impact of some of the images by trying to figure out what was going on in the picture. I realize that abstract visual media can sometimes have a greater emotional…”
LOVE YOU

WE NEED YOU HERE AND WE NEED so many BURNING SOULS that are wandering out there…
THANK YOU

Joe,

thanks for a very sensitive response to my outburst. Sorry for using the word fuck with it, it was uncalled for.

Like I said, as a grantee, jenn and others only need to submit their work, it is well understood. And it may be that there will be a few regulars in the last 8, after all. has David not told us he was impressed by the talent here, on and on again?

I do wish it, as well as i wish there may be more iconoclastic choices, more risky, complete unknown, rather than just people who have been, so far, many times on the honor roll in the profession. David said he will tell us how his choices were made, in any case.

Jenn seems to be sailing fine to me, not emerging! ;-) Mind you, anyone under 40, famous or no, could well be quoted as emerging, in a medium where old masters were often finally celebrated in their late age. The Magnum inductees, not quite members, are still emerging P’s, after all, I suppose.

I still think that if the EPF is an integral part of BURN as a website (not just BURN members on one side, and EPF grantess on another, with David the only relation), there should be a little more input from the finalists. I would really like to hear if Jenn would use the possible grant to further the cause of publicizing the fate of these poor souls, and in general what any finalist would want to use the money for.

Last, BUT NOT LEAST:

I do think that in the realization and success of the EPF, David’s legacy and dedication to helping so many at the onset of their career, will find quite an occupation, as the years come by. Can some of you join me in convincing David that the EPF should soon really be called, the DAVID ALAN HARVEY EPF GRANT, Emphasis on DAH?

“Where is Lassal,Asher, Martin B, Abele, Tom Hyde, Paul T, Sofia, Patricia…?

Where is ……., …….,……..,……..,…..,?

WHERE ARE you? I NEED NEW BLOOD , ONE DOWN 999 TO GO !!!!”

Civiian, you do not even imagine how spot on you were with your “I NEED MORE BLOOD” comment. As is I am sitting more or less in front of Vlad’s (Dracula’s) house in Sighisoara, Transylvania. There is a spot with some internet reception on this square.

Antonin Kratochvil’s workshop just ended and … what shall I say?! Guess I need some more blood too (and a lot of sleep)… It was a tremendous experience but now all I want is to get home and digest this. Instead I am the only one left of the group. My flight goes tomorrow … Enough time for one last dance with the old vampire.

So much seems to have happened here on BURN! I am amazed! Will need time to catch up and read it all. Congrats to all of you who have had work published this last week. Panos, I hope your exhibition was a true success and I hope to find a link to pictures of it somewhere here … :-) BTW, Diego was here too … You should see him, he is doing freeclimbing and it really shows :))))

Ok … will walk to the trainstation now. I am thinking of doing a multimedia piece of my work here … and if so I will need some more material. This is not the best place to sit and write comments anyway :)

The next bottle of blood goes on me!
Cheers to all and until soon(est)

Lassal

The donation button!!!!! Finally!!!!!! I will get to it as soon as I am back. Happy to see it here.

oh … and before I forget.
For all of you who are going to LOOK3 (and the rest)
don’t forget DAH’s B’day!
We are having a dedicated Slovenian messenger to deliver our greetings from Transylvania, but I sure wish I could be there and hug him in person.

Have fun partying yall!!!!

LASSAL,

check this out:

david alan harvey
May 23, 2009 at 7:14 am

“…let’s form a band…how about a bit of blues/country/rock?? across the country in an old school bus….document the whole thing …make a movie..book..make an album…arty cover….well, ok straight shot for the cover…sell tickets..pay for the gallery…jam session at the gallery…sell prints…take the money , buy gas, hit the road….damn, nobody can stop us now!!!!”

When is Plato’s Birthday ??? I am making baklava and kataifi…desserts

ANDREW B

that sounds like a nasty break – hope all is well and good to see you..

thoughts
david

civi

i think platos birthday is the day after d-day.. it was more excitement than his mother could take..
or was it the day before?
hmm.
5th or the 7th june..

CIVILAIAN,

“WE NEED A LIST OF THE LOOK3 UNIVERAL BURNIANS …!!!!!!!!!!!!!ERIC can help?”

Wish I could Civilian but I am about to jump onto plane in about 4 hours and then I will mots likely have limited computer access for at about 10-12 days so would prefer another BURNIAN to pick up the ball… We do wish to meet as many Burnians though in Look3!!!!!

Cheers,

Eric

Hope everyone in the states has a great Memorial Day rest of the weekend..good shooting, family, picnics or all of the above for those of you who seem to thread it all together seamlessly.

DAH, will you have the chance to shoot for Family on this holiday?

peace and productivity to all…

oh, and I was looking at Smith’s Dream Street Pittsburgh Project again last night..I couldn’t help but wonder how he would have applied the funding if he had a 10K grant during his time there…he did a heck of a lot in a year without the additional monies but was going into greater debt making 17,000 negatives and working on it non-stop..but it was through 2 Guggenheims that he was able to bring that giant mass into a coherent publishable form.

Someone said they would like to hear how the epf finalists would use the money, and if those people have concrete plans that would be interesting to hear, but from my (negative rich and money poor) perspective, the money is ever so important foremost because it allows you to keep working on something you’d have to abandon..

Who can top this B-Day ? hmmm…:))

Jim when is your B-day? Is Smith’s effort your cup of tea?

Sorry too many questions, so little time!

Jim, Popular Photography was the only one at the time that would allow him complete control over the layout, but how is a bad example, and a bad example of what? I was wondering how Smith would have used the money in the shooting of the project.

It wasn’t that no one would publish them, it was that the other magazines were unwilling to give up control.

“Smith and Magnum began approaching potential publishers of the project in 1956. Many magazines were interested, including Life, but none would agree to his demands for editorial control. He rejected several offers of up to $20,000 for rights to the pictures when his terms of publication were not accepted.”

David, Smith wasn’t an “emerging photographer” by any means at the time of the Pittsburg Project. He wouldn’t have needed grants to get the photos “together” if he hadn’t let his ego get in the way.

Nonsense. Where are you getting this revisionist history? The layout was bad because Smith was a terrible editor of his own work.

David, correct. His editing choices were bad.

If you think this is revisionist history, take it up with the following people, centers and Universities.

Sam Stephenson, the chosen individual to edit DREAM STREET: W. Eugene Smith’s Pittsburgh Project, published on occasion of the exhibition organized by the Carnegie Museum of Art with the participation of the Collection and Smith Archive at the center for Creative Photography, University of Arizona and through The center for Documentary Studies in association with the W W Norton and Co. Stephenson was awarded a NEA to continue his work on Smith, and is a writer and researcher at the center for Documentary Studies at Duke. And from Alan Trachtenberg, a Neil grey Prof at Yale, author of Reading American Photographs: Images as History.

Well, at least we now know the source of the revisionist history.

Erica

(wo)man, i love it when you kick revisionist ass! eeeehaaawwww, ride ´em cowgirl!

happy shoot-em-up in da cit-tayyyy!!!

DAH, ERICA, JIM

and hmm…very interesting discussion on Smith. i am ashamed to say i only discovered him this year through the books ¨Fat Baby¨ and ¨The Blue Room¨. I like The Fat Baby sooo much. I am really interested in knowing more about him now. Thanks for greeting me with this discussion this morning.

hugZ
kat-

But I think you are thinking of Eugene Richards.

JIM

haha..so right! dopey me..my eyes are still sleepy…but still a super interesting discussion and Minimata gets sucha great endorsement from you all i am going to hunt it down, thanks!

kathie

I have been fortunate enough to have seen an exhibition of Eugene Smith’s work “Let Truth Be The Prejudice” in London some years ago. It was a Tour-de-Force. Kathleen, at least one book of the same title is available.

Mike.

Mike R

You´re right, there is a copy on Amazon for 49.95 which i can definately manage..thank you soo much!

kat

There is a book…ah, finally found it. “Dream Street, W. Eugene Smith’s Pittsburgh Project.” Published in 2003.

Many times quantity doesn’t result in quality. Fueling an intense project with booze and amphetamines probably doesn’t result in your best work.

oime…

Reading list…reading …???
oime…I am going out for sangria …I ‘ll be back

David, you need to give us all a reading list ;-)) Something I’m still holding you to …

Kathleen, I have a small book “W Eugene Smith 55” ISBN 0-7148-4035-1 which is a good introduction to his work. It is part of the 55 series of photography books published by Phaidon.

The book describes how he received a commission from Stefan Lorant to spend three weeks photographing Pittsburgh and producing 100 prints for a book. He spent the first month wandering around and reading the city’s history: without taking any photographs. He then spent the best part of a year in Pittsburgh, taking more than 13,000 photographs, and then spent the next three years developing prints and layouts. His obsession with the essay almost bankrupted both him and Magnum.

He obviously thought than no one else could edit the essay and he was right: how could anyone else even attempt the task? By the same token how could anyone publish such a task except, perhaps, in book form?

A brilliant photographer but a walking disaster zone as far as personal relationships were concerned. One of my heroes (I don’t have many).

See also “W Eugene Smith: Shadow and Substance” by Jim Hughes

and

“Let Truth be the Prejudice: W. Eugene Smith – His Life and Photographs”

by Ben Maddow and John G Morris.

Best wishes,

Mike.

Akaky has a point about Smith’s work. It doesn’t hold together well if you start picking and choosing among the images. While there are a number of images that are outstanding as single’s hanging on a gallery wall, he was first a story teller and some of the problem, indeed, is that the Pittsburgh Project is just too big to present as such. His own attempt at editing was a failure that not even he was happy with. Actually, the magazine format – as practiced at Life and edited by Life editors- was the best format for his work, in my opinion.

I’ve been away for a day, lots going on, hard to keep up.

David Alan, with regard to the “one post” issue. I guess if that’s what has to happen. My hesitaiton about that format is that it is very hard to follow Buzz and other dialoques unless you are on them constantly. Discussion of the essays just gets lost.

I totally agree that comments under the essays and selected photographs can get way off topic, and way out of hand.

There are folks out there who just like a good argument. Even if you don’t want to read them you still have to wade through them, and it does set an often angry tone.

Perhaps we need Monty Python style Dialogues with doors marked “arguments” and “abuse” or “whining and ranting”

You guys are GREAT! Thanks sooo much!!

AKAKY,

Unfortunately i live in Central America and the main library in the city has been closed for repairs for the last 10 or 12 years..i get my books mainly on trips back to the US and hand carry them along with fast film back to CR which is no small feat and great hell on spinal columns. And then it´s hard keeping them from rotting in this awful humidity. I run one dehumidifier in the room that holds my books anbd another in the closet where i keep my cameras. My photo books and my cameras are my dearest tresures.

YOUNG TOM
:))))))

WENDY

Yes, Manuel Alvaro Bravo is incredible..i do so agree with you!

DAH and JIM (and ERICA though she is not here right now)

Yes, it may be that ¨Dream Street¨(Pittsburgh Project) is not Smith´s best work but there is something about the time in his life, the upheaval, the dysfunction perhaps due to substance abuse (?) that intrigues me..such a prolific amount of work, 11,000 negatives…such dire circumstances, such compulsion..this fascinates me somewhat, to see the work and feel his state of mind at the time. i do wonder..of course one must be able to perceive his mind and emotional state through his work. It would seem that the project bears seeing if only as a document to this period in a great photographer´s life..to give relevance and perspective to his other work. I mean, now you guys have intrigued me so much about him i am not going to rest till i take a great big bite out of his ouvre.

my sincere thanks to all and i do mean this..why you put up with my frequent faux pas i will never know :))

kat

Why does the essay say “hold to publish” beside it?

DAH,

Yes, i was thinking that if the Pittsburgh Project was atypical of Smith´s work then that is where i wish i could start. It would tell me a lot about him. Photographers and artists are not faceless people to me. I always want to know about who ¨they¨ were or are, their successes as well as their missteps, their development..their lives matter to me and this Project, and what you all say about him as an editor..this is all very very interesting to me. He must have made people just absolutely insane. This kind of obsession, this unbelievable need to ´say´something that never ends up being said the way he felt it needed to be said. I feel this frustration in his mind deeply within mine. It´s strange. This is my reaction. I must know more about him.

I live in Costa Rica.

There is a great space available to do a workshop (hint hint)..it was a gallery, in the historic wonderful arty part of the city, the only block in town where people have any artistic sensibility. What beautiful, beautiful space. In case you ever had fantasies about conducting a workshop in a new place :))

love ya!
kat-

DAH,
I also saw what Jim saw, however it’s gone now. It was after [EPF finalist].

Cheers

Well, David, I figured you would slip in Post Modern sooner or later. Certainly nothing wrong with Simona’s technique (but of course, there wouldn’t be at this level of competition), but I’m just not a fan of self conscious, self referential photography. Unless symbols are universal, you end up talking to yourself.

You get points for mixing it up, though. ;)

you know, what I really want to see someday is some EPF winner take the check and then blow it all in Vegas on booze, blackjack, and blondes. Not going to happen, though; there’s lots of terribly earnest people in this neck of the woods.

I just hope someone wins it that isn’t going to use it to spend time hand painting precious artifacts. We already have enough artifacts.

Jared

ohhh!! i like that list already, the second or third one down is Michael Ackerman who has had a very strong influence on me, along with William Klein and Helen Levitt..thanks for the link, Jared!

besos y abrazos

kat-

Come on, Akaky, you could have used your ONE POST to say what you thought of the photographers work! All target practice at me is supposed to happen over here. :)

I haven’t made my ONE POST yet… but in the meantime I will join in here just to say that while I am so grateful we all have the opportunity to express ourselves with photography I am just NOT into quite a bit of the work that is posted on burn….as a VIEWER.

Not to say there is anything wrong with it or be disrespectful at all. It’s just that no matter how hard I try, a lot of fine art photography does not do for me what photojournalism or straight documentary photography does. The “creative personal work” I see so much of here doesn’t excite or “move” me the way it does most who post here. With much of the work here I am happy for the photographer who has enjoyed making the image, I wish them well. Hope they have a great career if that’s what they want, but for me to spend time trying to figure out what their images mean (to me, to them, to whoever) doesn’t interest me. There are too many other images out there to find and look at which DO thrill me. I saw the PDN photojournalism winners this morning and can’t get them out of my head. GREAT work. Nachtwey et al.

I wish I could remember his exact words…I had an acting coach in LA years ago (Charles Conrad, the BEST) who compared certain acting performances to someone in a rainstorm peeing in their raincoat…the audience wasn’t invited to share in their experience. They were having the experience right in front of us but we couldn’t see it (I know that is a wild analogy but think about it for a second before cringing) I see some very well made photographs but for whatever reason, they don’t invite me in, don’t make me WANT to experience them deeply. If I’m somehow not hearing the invitation (deafness?) I can accept that but either way, it’s just not happening for me. Looking forward to seeing the documentary work mentioned above.

Jim, I give you a lot of credit for hanging in here and taking the abuse. :))

I know there’s an accent somewhere there, Eva, and I know there’s a way of getting a PC to make such marks, but I figured no one would blame me for not being a stickler about the grammar of a language I dont speak ;-)

TO ALL THOSE ATTENDING LOOK3….

email me if you are going and i will “attempt” or organize a get together… gmartin@ngs.org

KAT

It’s a work in progress, more stuff added all the time, so check back every so often.

@DAH
Add me to the list of those wanting a suggested photography reading list…as erica knows, I am likely one of the most ignorant here when it comes to such things….and a good list is a great place to start.

good light,
a.

Kurt

Interesting, I was just thinking to myself today, Smith would have adored photoshop and embraced digital instantly. No more screwing around with potassium ferrocyanide. A couple of swipes with the dodge tool in highlight mode and wham bam.
The whole point of doing what we do is to communicate what it is we want to say. Who cares (except for the purists} what the hell you do to an image. Whatever you need to do to make it work.

I understand the problem with reportage. But Smiths work was more than reportage.

Gordon, I have no problem with burning and dodging, or for that matter using Potassium ferrocyanide to lighten parts of an image to draw attention, such as he did in Mad Eyes from his story on Haiti. But to remove the eyes and repaint them in, I have a slight problem with that.

I dislike intensely ferri/bromide cocktails and make no apology for that………..

:)

just a a note as I wouldn’t want andrew b’s comment to be misunderstood..I am a huge fan of the printed book and they have been a very important part of my education as pretty much a self-taught photog – and andrew has a big interest in expanding both his knowledge and his collection of books, so we have been talking about what should be in his library..

I just looked at mine last night and had the sense of it being time to add a few more; LOOK should have a good selection of things I wouldn’t have thought of. came home from there last year with Irish Travels, Tinkers no More by Alen MacWeeney..sheer brilliance, check it out

I’m hoping that the next essay is for the under nines……… it would be great to see someone shooting stuff for that age group

DAVID,

Yes, John Szarkowski was the name I was trying to remember when writing Jim above. Thanks.

I will hope to hook up with the lowriders another day. Their cars are now so valuable they won’t bring them out if there is any chance of bad weather!