i am not a cat person….never had a cat as a pet…never wanted a cat…..i was always a dog man ….dogs were always happy to see me, followed me around…dogs responded to commands…..cats always just seemed aloof to me….now, i have a cat…..
on the fourth of july, a hot summer night, little Simone just showed up….my son Bryan and his love Michelle and i were sitting on my porch having a glass of wine and pretty much minding our own business , when along came little homeless Simone (sometimes Lulu) who just jumped into my lap….end of story…..or, should i say, beginning of story…..
now i am dealing with raccoon proof cat doors, dry food vs. wet food, auto feeding machines and worse, yes, AFFECTION…damn!! ….the last thing i need in my life is a cat….i do not have time for a cat….i travel too much to have a cat or any pet….but, now i have a cat….or, rather she has me….she now owns the place….runs the show….wants affection sometimes, and shuns it other times….does what she wants when she wants to do it and my job is just making sure she is happy …and i now trip all over myself to make sure this is so…..hmmmmm….
it is always the unexpected in our lives which seems to govern….all of us work so hard to plan plan plan and then , well, the “plan” becomes whatever “just happened” with perhaps a very slight twinge of the light of original agenda….most of us i think then take whatever circumstances evolved and then turn it into our “plan” as if we had thought of it all along….pure justification or acceptance or , well, what else can we do???
certainly there must be adjustments in our creative spirit as well…if we all did what we started out to do, then i am sure that the results would be a whole lot less exciting then if serendipity rules…..yet, we also know from experience that not having any kind of plan in the beginning usually leads to no action at all…so, strange as it seems, we need a plan or a thought or an idea at the beginning that we know surely with change as we move forward…we should not be surprised that we become surprised with what actually happens , yet this is the ultimate surprise!!
perhaps we all have different proportions of planning vs. serendipity……and , of course, this is all related to being able to FINISH what we start out to do…i think many of us do not finish what we start because a Simone shows up….changes the equation….priorities get scrambled……what we want today, may not be what we want tomorrow….
i do spend a lot of time with young ambitious photographers or photographers who are trying to make a mark….the single biggest difference i see between those who “do it” and those who do not is simply the ability to finish what one starts….
yes, of course, talent is a must…visual acuity, sensitivity, spacial awareness, timing, balance….but, given two equal talents, the one who can actually complete a body of work is the one who will rise….sounds simple, but it is the most complex compound of all things facing any creative person….i see it over and over with photographers i mentor…..i have fought this with myself all along….i suspect a solid 80% of what i start goes unfinished….folks know of the other 20%, but i coulda shoulda woulda done more….blame it on Simone??
what about you?? do you finish most things, or sooner rather than later give it up?? be honest…we are all in this together…
ok, while you take on this question, i have to go feed the cat…..no joke…she is an hour away , and i am going to go feed her instead of taking a picture….woe is me….
I think I finish what I start. I have been doing several projects at the same time but they have been running for a while, well over a year and I still have no desire to give them up as I dont think they are finished. Pieces is coming along as is Marooned, which is actually growing. I have 2 years left in Korea, after which I will be done with the MBA course I am doing and I will try to land a job elsewhete, so thats 2 years to finish Marooned, one chapter of which I submitted here. To be honest I am relishing the whole process of a long term project, I love building, tearing down, building again. It is fun, challenging and educational. On top of my own shooting I am trying my hand at curating and editing the work of others, which is helping me understand editing which I can apply to my own work.
I often go on paths I don’t finish. Usually I learn something from them, think how an unfruitful project that was to pursue, and move on to the next one. Luckily I have long projects that I carry on shooting, and others that are sort of over arching, so every some time you go back to them. Now I’m going to start a project hoping it will all work out, as I spend plenty of time in its preparation too. Would be quite sad to get it wrong.
On the cat. I got a stray cat about two months ago. What I didn’t know then was that it was pregnant. It’s like a double whammy, so now I have three cats. The pro is that they don’t need too much looking after (as dogs would). If I don’t finish a project I can always blame it on pregnant stray cats, I guess.
I have a folder called packaged works, heaps of stuff there including about 6 full exhibitions ready to go(printed proofs), about 3 installations, heaps of completed slide shows and the usual singles that I am happy with. The handmade photo books are sitting there one is ready to go, just a matter of printing and binding the single copy ……. other than that there is this stuff about 270 meters of images……. which is only completed when I become maggot food http://etrouko.com.au/art/3050.jpg
I usually finish what I start, a side-effect I’m sure of working all my adult life with rigid deadlines that newspaper people live and die with. The newspaper always comes out, daily or weekly or whatever, and you finish. I need deadlines to function well, I guess. As James Taylor sang in Bartender’s Blues:
“But I need four walls around me to hold my life
To keep me from going a-stray”
I prefer the sloppy love of dogs to the aloofness of cats. :)
The dog in my life:
http://www.39thframe.com/sweet_chichi.jpg
“Miaow, miaow…”
DAVID,
Laughing! I’ve been through almost exactly the same thing with a cat, but today I’m grateful and like them (didn’t before though). This cat http://search.milim.com/MilimData/magnify/Z625_091.jpg
Regarding projects I’m the same. I probably finish less than 50% of what I start. I’m even insecure when I finish if I should finish or not or continue or if it isn’t good enough.
Anyway, great story!
Cheers
Thanks. This is just the kind of thing I need to hear. I’ve been learning about the importance of this the last year or so.
Most of my life I’ve been terrible at finishing projects, when I’m in the middle of working on something I get so involved I just can’t step back anymore. I lose my ability to see the work from a distance. Then I get a negative comment or a rejection from somewhere and it all suddenly seems like crap. Often I find 6-12 months passes and I look back at the work and I really impress myself – it seems so obvious I shouldn’t have given up. I guess it’s about believeing in yourself and well…gritting your teeth and doing what needs to be done, the best you can, even if everything doesn’t go the way you hoped.
David, I had a Simone knock on my back door and wait for me to let her in about 8 years ago. Literally, her name is also Simone, and she is a cutie pie kitty that chose me. At the time, I was in no way shape or form ready to take on the responsibility of pet ownership, but there she was, hungry and cold, and she loved me unconditionally already. So, into my arms and life she came. It is a nice parallel to draw about the little surprises serendipity throws into our path…I believe that whatever we are currently experiencing, we are supposed to be experiencing. Sometimes these are good things, sometimes these are bad things, sometimes we cannot figure out why and may never know why certain things happen. Regardless of the why, however, remains the fact that we are a product of our experience. What we glean from that knowledge is up to each of us. Shall we learn and become wiser, and therefore stronger and better people? Or shall we misuse our precious energy by worrying about circumstances that are unexplained or beyond our control? Starting what you finish speaks volume about character…so does simply showing up and trying. I am trying like hell to start what I finish, and most of these things take way longer than I would like them to, but I have a pretty good track record of achieving what I seek to accomplish. So, that’s what I have to say about that. (And I know that your story was more directed so that we look inward and examine ourselves, but I just wanted to leave a little comment.)
Once you start reading the spam on the net and it finds its way into your work one will never finish as there is help online…….. http://etrouko.com.au/art/Orissa0610.jpg
CUBA with LOVE
took 10 years to complete..
I wanted to give up so many times…
I wanted it to go away,
this urge and desire and vision
and
have it leave me alone….
but
it wouldn’t…
***
and
now a movie….
and
now
brothels…..
***
life
is
certainly
an
adventure…….
***
and shes a
black
cat……..
xox
Good to see you writing again David…
When doing my own personal work I usually finish what I start though it can take a long time, and I have to ‘force’ myself to ‘finish’. It’s usually hard to know when to stop…another picture, another thought, another idea…sometimes I spend a lot of time thinking things over again…second-guessing…
One of the most important things I’ve discovered is the importance to START and to DO rather than think and read and theorize endlessly. Once you’ve written something on a page, put up some photographs on the wall, ideas start materializing and changing and developing…
Deadlines help. The first photographic essay I ever attempted was the assignment to produce 20 pictures that David gave on the original Road Trips blog a couple of years ago. I ‘finished’ it for the deadline, but feel it is really a long-term project.
We also had a pregnant cat give birth to four kittens in our place here in Bracciano, and we now have 5 kittens looking for a home…(the fifth kitten walked in the door one day seemingly out of nowhere, and became the ‘boss’…) Some cat pictures: http://simongriffee.com/story-catsi/
well… i haven’t visited Burn for a while now and the day i do, a new post from DAH. Serendipity indeed!
when i left london behind to travel with my wife and daughter we had a very basic plan, to be open minded, follow our hearts, take our time and see where it leads us to. we were searching for something different to our familiar urban lifestyle, we had the notion that we would end up living some place else, in a different way, in touch with nature… some sort of romantic ideal… we went to India (again) traveled for a while, rented a cottage in the mountains, bought food at local markets etc. After about a year we flew to Darwin in Australia bought a campervan and drove around the west coast and stayed a while near a small town in the forests of the south west. Then my wife became pregnant, we didn’t plan that! what to do? our families expected we’d return home, have the baby, settle back into ‘normal’ life… nope, we went back to India, rented another cottage, by chance found a wonderful mid-wife Sister Priscilla and decided to stay in India and have our second child. A blissful time it was…
Anyway after a few years between India and Australia we knew we’d found our ‘Shangri-la’ in the forests of Western Australia. We wanted to migrate, but that became a whole other mountain to climb. We were told the only way we would ‘get in’ is if i went to collage for two years and study something like cooking…
So after being a pro-photographer for quite a few years, i’d have to go to collage full-time and study hospitality? for two years? and work as a cook 900 hours per year? would i finish what i started? could i?
well, i’ve got 4 months left and i’m done with collage, cooking, hospitality… it’s probably been the most grueling bitter-sweet two years of my life. sometimes i think i must be crazy. sometimes others think i must be crazy. but when i have an end of term break and some sanity returns and i look at where we are living and how we live and how happy my two daughters are, it all makes beautiful sense…
However, the thorn in my side that has tortured me so often is that my photography grinded to a total halt for well over a year. I couldn’t complete the editing of my travel project, i couldn’t shoot much new stuff, i didn’t have the mental space or energy. But thanks to Burn (and Road Trips) i’ve managed to kick my own butt and finish my travelogue edit and start new material… (many thanks!)
So i guess i’d be saying that i do finish most things. Although my wife would probably disagree and list plenty from the washing up, changing the oil in the car, sorting those shelves……..
Never really got dogs. They rely on you, they need you. You cant just abandon them…They are like family.
cats always seem to say ‘whatever’. Feed me and house me..or not, who cares? They survive, they can live large or go back to the streets with no looking back. They are Independent of my care and love. Thats good.
I dont think I ‘dont finish’ stuff. I abandon things. Projects start, projects finish, projects get interupted, but when they are done..what then? Who were they for anyway but me?
Again it really does come down to to “why do you shoot?” Look in the mirror and answer THAT one honestly, just to yourself if need be.
There is nothing wrong about motive. Fame Money recognition salvation conscience career need guilt art[whatever the hell that means] …as long as we are honest about that motive. Lots of sheep dressed as wolves and wolves dressed as shepherds in the world.
john
Me? I’m a lifelong drop-out, and a shiftless, lazy bum. And stubborn enough about it to be proud of the fact. Being easily distracted and leaving projects ‘unfinished’ has been my basic operating procedure for so long that it’s become my only real ‘career’. It’s the biggest reason why I live far below the poverty line. I’ve pretty much always thought that modern societies place far too much emphasis on encouraging and rewarding people for being obsessively “goal directed”. Oh, I understand why, and I have no illusions it will ever change just because of me and a few other romantic rebels.
So much trouble in the world is caused by people with ‘big plans’ and the single-minded zeal to carry them out. Most of the important encounters in my life have been serendipitous… most of the important events unexpected or beyond my control… and most of the revelatory understandings I’ve been blessed with have come as a result of being willing to admit that I was mistaken or misguided, and willing to change my mind and my direction. Having room in one’s life for these things to happen is very important to me, and I see far too little of such room or possibility in the lives of heavily ‘goal-directed’ people.
I’m probably an extreme case. Maybe a balance between goals and openness to serendipity, between defined and directed projects versus pure whimsy and aimless curiosity, between over-achieving and under-achieving, would be the desirable ideal. But as I’ve looked around me, growing up, studying, working, and traveling the world a bit, a lot of the harm I’ve seen is the result of the over-achievers’ greed and ambition. The world- the real world- is so beautiful, so mysterious, and so abundant, so enchanting. And can be enjoyed, savored, investigated, accommodated, and surrendered to with such little need for harm, with such slender resources. But it is filled with swarms of noisy, bothersome, pushy, loud, aggressive people intent on making their piles, making their reputations, building their walled castles, creating their personal empires, and flaunting their wealth and power.
I’m not trying to lead anybody astray into the poverty and idleness that is my voluntary lot, but just to offer a few words of encouragement to anyone who is constitutionally not so goal-directed or obsessed with ‘completing’ projects… No need at all for you to feel guilty or less adequate! Follow your heart and your own curiosity, indulge in whimsy, let yourself be distracted… maybe you will find something far more valuable and interesting that ‘success’.
As for pets… I grew up in the same family with an older brother who was a serious naturalist, and have had the rich experience of living together with a wide range of amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals in addition to more conventional dogs and cats as pets. Some of the more interesting and amusing pets that stand out in my memory are raccoons, crows, flying squirrels, ferrets, and boa constrictors. I love a lot of dogs and tend to get along well with them, but have never wanted my own and have always felt heavily burdened when forced to take care of other people’s dogs for periods of time. Their needs for attention are too great, and their energy level too rambunctious. I feel much calmer and at ease with the energy and independence of cats. Of the thousands of cats I’ve encountered, there were only about five I really didn’t like and who didn’t like me. And that was always a flashing red warning signal to me about their owners!
For the moment, I didn’t abandon my projects, but I think it sometimes… I always work on my parents, I had few months when I saw nothing, but I believe that it is better now…
me, I always had cats…
Have a nice day,
audrey
I’m on the last leg of my canal project. It’s been 4 plus years. I do intend a self-published book. Lots to wade through, though. But, yes, I will finish it. Getting started is often more difficult for me. Need a new project! I’m open to ideas! ;^}
Cheers.
P.S. Dogs tend to worship their owners. I always found that pretty damn annoying.
Cats worship no one. They give what they receive. Love and affection and peace and quiet. This is why they rule.
Cats are trouble. Are you a closet cat person David?
Good luck,
Paul
Dogs have families, cats have a staff, raccoons have to seize
I write this as I’m laying here with a cat nearby…
Dear Mr. Harvey,
I feel your pain, perhaps you are dealing with your delemma more light hearted than I have though. I was not picked by a cat, but instead a woman who has two cats. My dog passed away over the summer while I was out of town with the woman. Two days this week I couldn’t shoot because she wanted attention. It’s only built up resentment and I’ve been quite upset each time this has happened. I have to keep her happy, that unfortuneately might mean going out to dinner with friends or what ever it means. I haven’t had a realtionship like this for nearly ten years and I’ve gotten a lot done in that time… What now though? Break her heart and think only of myself to get it done more? Instead, it seems I must think nothing of myself, and hope I can get it all done in my spare time…
Yes well anyway, I wish the best for you and Simone.
Jason
Very hard to know if I finish things, because I rarely have a definitive start for them..the way I work usually is organic, not project based until the project claims it’s own turf.
That said, the book project that I started last June needs to have firm boundaries because of the volume I am shooting and the number of hours committed that make it nearly impossible for me to do other things or live in balance. Hence, and enforced deadline of end of October. I do hope I can stick to it, because there will always be more to add to this piece. I just can’t though, for money, for sanity…
A cat! So happy for you. Someone is trying to get me to care for their 2 cats for 10 months..am really on the fence. September will be the first time I will be without animals in the home, possibly ever..and am sort of excited about the freedom.
Hey DAH – McGowan here.
Facing and fighting these demons head on. I’ve been thrust into the vagabond lifestyle, loveless, penniless, with little over a month to get Garage Sale ready to hang for ArtPrize.org. It’s going to happen… it has to now, I signed the venue agreement. You can track my progress on humanfiles.com if you’re interested.
Sorry I haven’t been around in a while… it’s been that kind of life.
Sidney,
Amen to all you (beautifully) said!
Simon
i can empathise..
tor capa keeps filling his nappy..
3 esteemable bowel movements today..
it is a distraction..
in the short term finishing is easier for me than the long term.. finishing commissions / exhibitions and the like are easy – a deadline forces an end.. goals and time-lines are in mind for pragmatic reasons.
what i have more difficulty with is finishing personal projects over a long period of time.. and by personal projects i mainly mean my music work.. because it will never really finish..
it has evolved though and so i guess the end of this stage is where i need to show people what i have been up to.
the same goes for photographing my daily life.. meanderings and jusfodahelluvit stuff.. there is no end.. no end..
perhaps having tor capa is an end of a certain life.. so maybe this more personal stuff needs to be sorted out..
i wonder.. is an end bought about by marketing and commercial pressures?
or is it more that an end has to be bought about for our own mental filing before we can move on?
a little of both, along with the reward of an end?
maybe it is passing through a portal of sorts.
perhaps the ‘natural’ end of a project is when our lives change.. you know..
the 4 or 5 lifetimes we live in one.
photographing instinctively and growing a body of work organically – there is no end..
i’m not even sure i can pinpoint the beginning.
so i guess we have to recognize when current stages of a project have finished.. and that’s the time to collect what has come together and solidify what comes next..
that’s okay.
the tibetan work has been exhibited twice and the music work 2 or 3 times..
i’m yet to air my more personal laundry, (some of it stinks), or create a book..
what i need to do is present my conclusions at each stage of the longer project in the form of a book rather than wait longer, until the bitter end.. (which may well be my end).. in order to try and present something more epic.
with music work – i wanted to photograph the uk scene over 10 years.. but ended up getting sent abroad.. bang goes the end of the uk project and so begins a more ‘epic’ project.. from nearly 600 uk commissions i could do a uk book.. or i could wait, (which i did), and try for a worldwide book..
and now..
trying for a world wide book i am thinking..
well..
there are many more countries i could do.. or, as with this summer, i could look at one country more closely..
i remember reading once that people posing for portraits are nervous in part because of the impression of a portrait lasting beyond their lives.. standing to represent them and their image long after they are in the ground.. and that’s part of the thing with me and long term projects..
the other part being that i want to do things properly.. not hit and run.. taking time.. learning as much as i can..
although of course.. perhaps the deeper you live a life to photograph it, the more murky the waters become.. it takes a while to ingest what has gone before, and then i guess we know if a ‘time’ has ended.
no amount of time is enough to cover things properly.. we can do our best though.
anyway.. i have a handle on finishing.. know what it feels like to finish and am capable of calling an end to a stage of a project.. yes.
the ultimate finishing will be the end of us..
so we’d all best finish filing our negatives / RAWs before then.
:o)
hope to chat tomorrow david, unless tor capa has another ‘epic’ nappy day or lulu simones claws find your archived prints..
david.
“it is always the unexpected in our lives which seems to govern….all of us work so hard to plan plan plan and then , well, the “plan” becomes whatever “just happened” with perhaps a very slight twinge of the light of original agenda….most of us i think then take whatever circumstances evolved and then turn it into our “plan” as if we had thought of it all along….pure justification or acceptance or , well, what else can we do???” -DAH
…I feel that there are few truer statements than this … something that inches so close to reality it can shatter personal foundations and induce poppy goosebumps. Is anything ever finished though? really, can anything ever be complete as long as the concept of time withers forth? I don’t know … I haven’t the damnedest foggiest – but I feel with photography and documentary and reportage this is especially true – how can anything ever be finished so long as the subject of interest keeps breathing and their family and ancestors keep breathing and so on … and even in death there’s a continuation of memories…. fuck.
I am currently in New Mexico, and I came here on my own dime, for my own disillusioned assignment to cover navajo nation with a writer friend down here. And for the love of all that I ever held to be true, my “expectations” were so shot to shit that I had a meltdown … several, actually. The planning I had for this trip, well, whatever it was is no more. And the direction I have taken, well, seems like it could be endless … I can’t foreseeably see an out to the problems down here … and if anything coming to Gallup, New Mexico slapped this realization – this slice of wisdom that, coming from David mind somehow means more to me than any nascent experience I may have with it … well, its beleaguering and nauseating and if anything it gives me hope to see it written by another. It is one of the more difficult things – to see direction, realization, epiphany – by yourself, without a guide or mentor. We have books and collected wisdom in frames and motion and sound but really its all how it churns in you. I don’t know how anyone else feels, and if i’ve splayed out my innards via verbal evisceration I’m sorry.
Expectation seems to be one of the worst things we do to ourselves as people. How to surgically remove expectation from documentary/reportage assignment is a struggle I think many of us contend with … but hopefully its just myself.
x
First get that cat neutered.
I have a totally shit work ethic and finish everything I start. The problem I have is not starting something because I don’t think I’ll be able to finish it. I think I’d be more relaxed tipping into more things without out the self imposed pressure of finishing.
I think Churchill might have said “dogs look up to you, cats look down on you and pigs treat you as equals”
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All the cats I have ever owned have been strayed into my life. The current one I’ve had 9 years. I’ve learnt a lot from this one which came from a cat colony as a 2 month old kitten. Here’s one important point. If your cat is doing something you think is naughty, it’s not being naughty: it’s distressed or needing something. Find the cause and change the situation the naughty behaviour will stop. And cats are easy to train. Don’t buy silly toys like clawing posts. Let the cat outside near a tree. If the cat is sick, with something, take it to the vet, don’t just wait for it to get better. If you cat gets in a fight, it needs antibiotics to prevent abscesses from developing. Keep your cats in at night if you want to avoid your cat getting in a fight. Get it neutered. Clumping kitty litter is a cheap and less messy solution for indoor cat box seriously consider stopping the dry food. I could go on but a book on cats is a good thing. A happy cat carries its tail in the air. A really happy cat has a little bend at the tip of its upright tail. I have come to think that a tail on a dog and a cat is much like facial expression, although I can see facial expressions on my cat as well. Certainly he has a frown. Cats like affection. They get lonely without attention if they’ve gotten used to it. Introducing strange cats can cause terrible problems if the one who was there first is the weaker one. Nasty cats are only frightened cats. All cats can be tamed with patience.
Do I finish things. Not often enough but I’ve reached a time of my life when I am tired of starting afresh. Photography is something I have picked up and put down a few times and now it’s time I picked it up for good. There’s a lot to be said for persistence. Certainly your post makes a very good point. What is that saying, “90% of success is persistence”. At least now I am sure of what I want to do, no longer care that much about other things, know that whatever hiccups come along, I can deal with them. I now have the self-belief that was sorely lacking as a 22 year old when I first took up photography. When you lack self-belief, persistence will get you through the rough patches, so long as you know enough about it to hold fast to that idea. By all means, take a break, change the pace, but don’t let go of your idea and you will finish it.
Oops, that was a bit long.
I swear I hear her purring! What a dear pussy cat. Simone chose well…
“Patsy does not finish what she begins.” That was on every one of my elementary school report cards. So I’ve spent the last 60 years trying to prove them wrong!
Actually, the greatest preparation I ever had for finishing this book project was my yearlong training to run the marathon. There are no shortcuts there. You either stick with it day-by-day or pay BIG TIME on the day of the race. I was determined to finish with a smile on my face so I did everything the experts said. I ran every day no matter what the weather, which in Detroit could be pretty heroic in February. I alternated long and short runs, did my longest (23 miles) three weeks before the race and then started tapering off. Ate carbs and got lots of sleep. And was a REAL BORE because all I could talk about was running. But I LOVED running my first marathon so much that I ran another the next year. In pretty good times at that.
After seeing that I could set a longterm goal and achieve it, I knew I could do whatever I set my mind to. My Falling Into Place book project is a good example. It has been my obsession for 14 months now, and even though there are parts of the process that have excited me more than others–I LOVED taking the pics but am less thrilled about writing/rewriting the text–I’m on schedule and determined to present the best possible Blurb book I can create to the publisher in September. David’s encouragement, critiques, edits and belief in the project has sustained me when my energy flagged. And you folks here on Burn and on Road Trips before Burn have always given me the feeling of being carried along on waves of support.
So, to me, finishing what one begins is not a solitary journey. It depends on the support and belief of those around you. For that I am so grateful to David and to every one of you.
Patricia
Sam Harris, I love your story and find your “postcards from home” to be quite marvelous! Maybe you didn’t shoot for a year but you certainly didn’t lose your artist’s eye. Click on Sam’s name to see some of his photos. A real treat!
Patricia
“No plan survives the first contact with the enemy.” Hemuth von Moltke (Prussian General Field Marshal)
Please forgive me to quote a military guy, but I guess he simply put it very well. I am a pacifist with a bit of a dry sense of humor, so I hope everyone can cope with this quote.
A quiet evening was scheduled tonight, but plans just changed. I have got to go. More later.
Reimar
Harry
August 11, 2009 at 12:45 pm
First get that cat neutered.
laughing…all the Cynics here must agree…:)))))
Well if she’s a femail – Spayed?
Well if she’s a female – Spayed?
Well isn’t that nice, my poor spelling made it through
yes, spayed, for females..or in the language of my midwestern childhood, “fixed”, as if there is something wrong with her natural abilities to have kittens, or worse, as in “that’ll fix her.”
“fixed” goes for LA too…:)
Perhaps fixed as in stationary, or unmoving, no change in status…
Isn’t this a wonderful thread??? David, you and Simone really hit on somthing special here. The stories are amazing! I just keep reading and re-reading them. Can’t wait to hear more…
Thanks everybody for sharing so freely.
Patricia
John Gladdy — I shoot because it’s something I did as a kid, years ago, and after a decade of trying to ruin my own life, picking up the camera again just felt right. That and I’m a bit obsessive.
As far as projects go, I rarely think through what I’m going to shoot. Photography (especially street, whatever that means) for me is a balance, it keeps me excited to wake up, no matter where I am, there’s an area I haven’t fully explored. It keeps me engaged in society, meeting new people — my natural inclination is to be a hermit. So basically, it helps me survive.
If projects come from it (and I suspect I’m starting to see some overarching themes), great.
I do have a project planned for next year if that counts.
What? Not even one teary-eyed Adieu from anyone to the humonguouest section ever on BURN?
EVERYONE, ALLTOGEHER NOW: Bye-bye, BUZZ… (to the sounds of Chopin’ funeral march)
PS: busy, will be back later…
My RSS reader caught this cat image a few weeks ago — but it disappeared from the site instantaneously. I thought it was a glitch, or maybe I had had 1 too many… glad that’s all cleared up.
oh david. i see you with a cat. with that cat. i know the feeling. love strays.
do i finish what i start? before i became a photographer, no and skipped along without a care.
now i do. if it’s not working, i put it aside. otherwise, deeper and deeper i go. out on a limb. jump from branch to branch gathering. like not knowing the outcome, but do know there will be one because i care. love, anne
I actually have always liked cats for their very aloofness! Here in Bucharest dogs are given a very bad name because the strays are absolutely ferocious. So, whenever I see a stray cat it is a welcome site. At least your David gets to spend quality time with the 60th anniversary Magnum book. Thanks for this post. My long-term peasant project in rural Romania has been going on for 7 years and I think I just need to show it around to European publishers soon.
David,
The EXACT same thing happened to me! With a bird I found in the backyard 7.5 years ago.
Here’s my Eddie the Eagle:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30716737@N08/3812100699/
He runs the show…absolutely. We even bought the house in Santa Fe because we were traveling less and less, hating to leave him home and thought this would be a good place for us all to “nest” together. That makes him a VERY expensive bird!!!
There are two ways to look at it. I could be bummed about what I gave up for him…months in India every year, freedom…all the money we spent buying the house which could have been used for travel…OR thank him for coming into my life and giving me Santa Fe, the photographic life I have here…I can’t imagine life without Eddie. I wouldn’t have it any other way.
I look forward to hearing about the gifts Simone brings into your life…and I don’t mean dead mice :))
For me; if procrastination was a full time job then I’d be a millionaire. It’s always been my biggest drawback.
This site was prompted me to see the value in, and begin a project. Before that I’d had a few half-arsed ones, but never followed through. I’d always shot “single” images for stock and small “projects” for articles etc.
The project can get a bit obsessive though which can be both a good and bad thing! My only problem is that I can tend to go a bit overboard with it and the paying work suffers…
I think that one reason that many projects don’t come to fruition is that we pick localities/stories where the logistics of fulfilling them are too difficult/expensive. Conversely; those difficulties have probably resulted in a great deal of top work too!
To be perfectly frank; I’ve probably fallen into the same trap with my Timor project. I don’t want to do a “once over lightly” one month project, which to my mind it wouldn’t perform any useful task.
However, my youth project has evolved precisely out of not being able to get back to Timor for a while (finances etc.). So maybe that is a natural evolution? I don’t know.
Even though I’m equally passionate about both projects, I can pretty much shoot the youth project every day, so the logistics are easy and simple. I’ve decided to return to Timor for two one-month trips per year while shooting the youth project here at home at every opportunity.
But the basic truth to me is that shooting a personal project has been a revelation to me, and I know that this time I won’t be stopping until it’s finished.
As for cats; nearly every cat we’ve ever owned have been strays that have turned up at our front door. I live about 10 minutes out of town and people always seem to throw their unwanted cats out on our road.
I hate to think of the amount of times we’ve nursed emaciated cats or kittens back to health again. All because some mongrel person won’t do the right thing and look after their animals properly.
David; every stray we’ve ever had have been beautifully natured, Oh, they can usually win Olympic gold medals for their ability to eat too! They know a good thing when they find it!
Sidney….!!!! :))))
AMEN…..
HUGS
bob
simone is amazing. a lover. a communicator. only slightly impatient. playful…with that bend at the tip of her tail she does seem happy. we seemed to have conjured her up somehow…serendipitously…as that is david’s gift. see, i desperately wanted a cat, but can’t bear the allergies. we have a yard full of rabbits and birds that would have their fragile balance disrupted by the presence of an outdoor kitty. then david moves in just a few doors down…and soon… simone appears. perfect. i get to enjoy and share my love with the most exquisite, mysterious, black-brown cat. david gets to philosophize about the similarities between cats and women (oh the lessons he’s learning). what else could be more fascinating?
and as for finishing what i start…well…i’ll have to get back to you on that.
Ha! Classic! Simone meet Django…
http://www.jameschance.com/django_superstar/dj-dj.jpg
One half Boxer, one half Aussie Cattle Dog, one hundred percent perfect! We got him this weekend.
As for the question, I guess i would be a finisher. Jess refers to me as “the bulldog” in those types of occasions as I will keep pushing at stuff until it is done… I don’t like loose ends! God knows you have to be persistent in this industry though. Anything less than “bulldog” and in my experience you fall back pretty quickly.
DAVID: While on the subject of work and getting it done… Any interest in the last submission? ;)
The only cat I own is this feral one bought it for 42 dollars, it’s a donation helps this guy on Kangaoo island to get rid of the ferals. Though he is powerless against feral photo guys.
http://etrouko.com.au/art/mycat.jpg
Sidney that’s the way it usually happens but along the way I actually manage to put ideas to rest by completing stuff…….. lets me get on with Mr Next and friends
my second name is f not for farrah as in fawcett (rest in peace) but for Firm and Flighty. i can put my mind to something and finish it great as long as it is last minute. i live for the thrill of sleepless nights and scrambling, organized chaotic workspace and extreme exhaustion…
hmm.. ive never liked cats, sorry. they scare the crap out of me when they rub against your leg and purr. im not sure if purring means they like you or they want to play with your wits before they jump.
but as for finishing … what was your question again?
David, I’m jumping into the fire. Your cat adventure has brought out the Mujeres de Burnia, minus Gracie of course.
Our journey has many twists and turns. Yours contains a plastic box with cat litter.
Happy Travels,
Paul
Michelle, it sounds like Simone has found the purrfect people to cosy up to. Yes, cats offer lots of learning opportunities as well as lots of opportunities to give and receive love. I’ve always been partial to them myself. I like a cat’s strong sense of self. Dogs give unconditionally; cats on their own terms. I like that.
It was an absolute delight to meet and spend some time with you and Bryan in C’ville. Look forward to the next time…
Patricia
Imants:
Have you been to Kangaroo Island? It was always one of the places I was keen to go to when I was doing nature photography. Never got there though, I had the money saved up but got the opportunity to sail to the Auckland Islands (Sub-Antarctic)on a sealion tagging trip instead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auckland_Islands
patricia – so great meeting you at look also! i hadn’t known until i read your blog that your fall photo wasn’t planned…you’re another one with a gift for serendipity, aren’t you? looking forward to more….
we have a dog too…the ultimate in unconditional love, yes, though duncan tends to spread his love around indiscriminately and would wander off with any stranger and not even miss us if they had more/better/any treats. simone actually appears to be more loyal than little duncan. funny.
Great place for car camping some great secluded spots on the south east coast off the tourist run saw no one for a few days, otherwise very civilised.
Well David, welcome to the fold. I must say, I don’t trust people that don’t share their lives with animals. http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/image/113313576
Can’t a body of work be actually made out as surely from the 100% images taken in one’s life as the already published ones, David?
Which would include singles from the 80% unfinished, and even unfinished essays, ie. Extirped from the drawers/attic/archives (just an example: maybe by the P’s widow?), thought incomplete, but actually potent enough to show a side of the P. unknown to the public, or single shots it would be a loss not to publish at last…
Likewise, unlike other arts (literature, music, painting, movies, maybe all save P.), very little photographic body of work requires to come to an “end”, for the viewer/public to totally appreciate it.
Just to make my point, when you turn the last page of “The Americans”, it never quite comes to the “end”, as it does with a novel, a movie, or the last sound of a symphony.
In the end, a photographer has much more leeway to conduct a finished or even an unfinished project. I’s as if you David, wrote a novel called DIVIDED SOUL over 15 or 20 years. It allows, and could actually DEMANDS for a lot of hesitation, giving-up, going back, breaks, un/no/new/-plannedness, etc….
If we follow how the history of P. has been written and counted so far,it would seem that what is always considered finished, is the single image/print, and that when it is about a series, an essay, it usually comes down to very few, if not actually just one, for the highlighted photographer (Think Avedon, many essays, but in the end, AMERICAN WEST will overshadow the rest, save one or two). So that many finished projects are maybe worth mentionning, but not much more than the unfinished ones.
Don’t worry about unfinishing is what I must be saying, as long as you finish the ONE that counts. And only if you are an essayist, at that!
Finished seems quite a uncertain word for me as far as anything creative goes as I’m sure your all as well aware as me.. but as far as working hard and completing as well as I can a body of work ,then Yes.
I have been working on many photographic projects without any funding or financial support for years. This is easy enough at first but to keep it up ain’t as photography can be relatively expensive.
My difficulty is getting the images I’ve put together seen.
I’m just in the process of scanning the years of images I have on film. This is a very slow process but hopefully somebody will happen across my work and like it..see something in it worthwhile.
David, welcome to the feline world. My wife and I have two cats: neither of them actually ours; they just moved in from neighbouring homes. Let me tell you, cats move in and turn you into a servant; and you won’t mind in the least.
As for finishing what you started, I think it’s more important to start. I’ve always been an admirer of the photographic essay but lately I find that it can be an obstacle to photography (the subject doesn’t fit the essay so I don’t take it or worse still, don’t even SEE it!). I’m beginning to like the label Photographer rather than Photojournalist. Perhaps we should photograph first and think later?
Best whiskers, er, wishes,
Mike.
None of us has responded to David’s other point. The one about being dropping our resistance to change. I nearly always respond automatically with a wall of resistance but nowadays (in that last 5 years or so) I am much better at pulling up a little while later and saying, hang on a minute…maybe there’s something here worth letting in. Maybe I should try this again with an open mind. Give it a second chance. Maybe its only my attitude that’s wrong while the formerly offensive thing is actually quite good if I just adjust my attitude to it or take a look from a different perspective.
None of us has responded to David’s other point. The one about being dropping our resistance to change. I nearly always respond automatically with a wall of resistance but nowadays (in that last 5 years or so) I am much better at pulling up a little while later and saying, hang on a minute…maybe there’s something here worth letting in. Maybe I should try this again with an open mind. Give it a second chance. Maybe its only my attitude that’s wrong while the formerly offensive thing is actually quite good if I just adjust my attitude to it or take a look from a different perspective.
HERVE…
yes, of course a collection of the so called “unfinished work” might just indeed be a body of work all its own…what some think is incomplete, others would call complete and vice versa…and you are quite right, just the process itself can certainly have great value…however, i was not necessarily referring to finished essays anyway…i meant, just finishing as in making something out of what you have done period…in my case, finishing means a completed archive on whatever subject or process may have been attempted…this could be a book or exhibition or simply having a clear cut body of work archived as per its intent…
my early family album from childhood which i did not see as anything “finished” at the time, is now considered by my colleagues at Magnum as my ultimate creation…several of my friends (Alec, Alessandra,Jonas, Chris, Trent, Jim G,) and i are over the next few months doing a project called “home” where we are quite literally just telling our stories like the one i just told about Simone…our self assigned deadline to “finish” will be in march…this is to become a series of hand made books…
IMANTS…
car camping is the best….and you live in one of the very best places for it…well, except for the bugs…i did car camp once somewhere south of Townsville and faced a plethora of beetles, which were quite harmless of course, but just annoying in their insistence on being just everywhere…crunch crunch with every step…
MIKE R…
i have never never liked the label “photojournalist”…always preferring simply “photographer”…..my pictures may have appeared in a journalistic medium, but my intent has never been photojournalistic per se…i do often defend photojournalists regarding their intent, but have never considered myself one of them….yes yes i think photographing instinctively is THE way to photograph…still , once you have all those photographs gathered which were made by “instinct”, you still have to make something “happen” with that work…well, you do not have to , but if you feel the work is of value , then you still must complete the linear task of bringing the work to “hard copy”….i do not plan pictures at all…even the work i have done on commission has not been planned…the plan i was referring to was the plan of making a book or show or of just coming up with some sort of outline for living, not regarding “plan” as part of the work created in the first place…
ANDREA C…
i think what you just wrote is the key to everything…having an open mind….at some point, you do have to decide where you are going to spend most of your time in the short run, but i think it is more about the style of effort rather than a specific goal…in other words, i am NOT specific goal oriented at all, but i do have a “way” of working which i know works for me , so i hold myself to my own personal standards of working….again, the “work” is the aftermath of the creativity…the creation of the work itself is as per my description to Mike above…all instinct…
cheers, david
SIDNEY…
please do not confuse my desire to “finish” as having anything to do with being “goal oriented” as per your description of the results of goal orientation …at first glance it might seem the two are related…but there are subtle differences with the examples you gave…besides amigo, you only wrote about the negative aspects of folks who wanted to finish something….what about all the “greatness” in the arts that has come from people who were able to finish??
i think you are quite correct in thinking about the balance between serendipity and “plan”….and you are also quite correct in offering to those who are not able to start/finish a photo project , that life is not over if you do not do a book…of course not, of course not…this is a larger life philosophy question…this particular online venue however is for folks who might just want to do something with their work…that’s all..nothing more , nothing less….
and for all of my efforts at “making things happen” , i too struggle with the financial part of life…if i were goal oriented as per your description, i do not think that would be the case…serendipity definitely rules with me…i just want that serendipity “down”…and i am sure you would deem that fair enough as well..
your writing here is always among the very best…so, in fact, you are in “hard copy”…Burn the book will have your work…just keep thinking, just keep writing….
cheers, david
David;
I suppose it basically boils down to the fact that everyone must find a way that works for themselves. A method of working that allows each individual to create meaningful work.
Sadly, not finishing projects often comes from a fear of failure. You can’t fail if you don’t finish is the thinking. I know photographers who have been working on the same “project” for over 20 years, and have never produced a single thing.
David you have to pick your times…… one never goes camping in summer, stay home and enjoy the comforts of the nest. Early spring and late autumn, the crowds are thin and the weather has that variety of fantastic to miserable without that “doi knia” same same feel. A couple of weeks of drifting around with no balance between serendipity and plan.
“Life is a series of natural and spontaneous changes. Don’t resist them-that only creates sorrow. Let reality be reality. Let things flow naturally forward in whatever way they like. ”
Lao Tse
This post is beautifull David!
A familly album, even when we are dead, our sons or daughters will make it growing, it should never end… this is why a familly album, more and more today become the most important things in photography…the memory…and it is always in front of our doors…
It just me think of what is the most important target in a year….endind a personnal photo project wich can make me famous or bringing my kids to the mountain, wich just can make them happy?
I have my answer… thanks David!
DAVID
Just a brief (!) response because today some obligations and commitments are screaming at me. I don’t think I ever confused what you were saying, in a very eloquent and nuanced way, with the kind of goal-oriented obsession I was talking about… but after re-reading what I wrote I realized that maybe I created that impression, for which I apologize. Never intended to counter what you were saying, only to offer a tangential observation! Actually, the way you suggested adapting- not abandoning- the initial goals of one’s projects to the things that actually happen in life, so that the outcome is a collaboration or a dance between the intended and the serendipitous, is setting the perfect tone, and offers valuable clues to how things can indeed be ‘finished’ in a very organic way. I admittedly went off on a rant about something that is a bit of a hobby horse of mine. And Jim Powers also has a point here… fear of failure is behind a lot of unfinished projects. So is fear of success, I’ll bet, although probably not as much! What I was mostly cautioning against was a rigid idea of what constitutes success, and measuring the value of one’s time and efforts against society’s, or somebody else’s, achievement scorecard, and on that I’m confident we have little disagreement. Back for more after my obligations are met!
Cheers,
ALL
Over at Massimo’s essay, someone who lives in Indonesia has written his/her views on the essay, seeing it as an unfair perspective, and said “There are many bad things happening here, but one must not neglect the good things.” Many of the other commenters report having “compassion fatigue.”
Expanding beyond this specific essay or body of work, I’d be curious to hear your thoughts about what seems to be a growing desire for the photographer to focus not just on the negatives and show a more holistic and balanced picture of any given situation.
But, as years of exposure to the medium have shown us, there is no objective truth in photography, and the strongest work often comes from the photographer who has something to say, a viewpoint beyond objective reporting. Is it possible that when it comes to this idea of equity in personal storytelling, there is no there, there?
Or, given humanity’s current position and our exposure to the medium, is it now the “right” thing for photographers to approach their work in a way that accounts for both audience compassion fatigue and this idea of fairness? Do you agree that “one must not neglect the good things” ?
IMANTS…
well, yes i do love the idea of two or three weeks of just drifting with the wind….as a matter of fact, i think my whole psychological survival (if indeed i have survived) has been because i totally allow for a lot of time drifting…i will take your word for it on best time of year…seems like i also lost about 200 dollars at a small horse racing track nearby…i really thought i had the “inside track” on the most likely horse to win…i had never bet on horses before i went to OZ…it seemed so innocent and harmless in that country environment…following the spirit of Banjo Paterson led me down a lot of wrong trails as it turned out…but, i sure had a good time doing it….
ANNE HENNING…
you are a finisher…you do change your mind quite a bit, but so what?? you finish….and with such a good spirit all the way…your eyes always sparkle with possibility….next to you, i am pessimistic by nature!!!
ERICA…
what a conundrum ….do a positive essay and folks will ask you “why did you gloss everything over?”..do a reality edge essay and folks will ask “why do you only show the bad side?”…no winning on this one…a “balanced” coverage will most likely mean a boring coverage, so better to just say whatever you want to say about a particular subject and let the chips fall….
as Patricia pointed out clearly, there is just a compassion overload for many viewers of a certain style of journalistic story…i agree totally…too many photographers see a success story like Nachtwey for example and then think they must go imitate him or others…unless they go further out on the edge than Jim, their efforts are wasted…
i think our Alessandro with “The High Tide” won the EPF primarily because he was way outside the proverbial “box” of today’s often cliche form of storytelling…the jurors i felt were even more weary than Patricia of “same old, same old”….
so so many photographers take what they see “winning” in contests and grants and then copy them the very next year…how many “new” versions do you think i will see of photography by moonlight for next year’s EPF??? even when i publish a particular type of picture here on Burn, in the very next hours i will receive a dozen copies of what i just published….i suppose this is just a function of how most people see “success” which is a copy success by rote method..that is how most people do learn most things…it just does not work with the creative experience…
cheers, david
Erica,
I disagree with the sentiment that “one must not neglect the good things.” As a photographer one must include or “neglect” whatever one wishes. Whatever one feels is relevant to the essay/story. I appreciate Nugi’s concern for how the country is represented in Massimo’s essay… it’d be like someone coming to DC and shooting only the worst parts of town. I might have a little resentment watching through something like that, but it’s the photographer’s choice.
There is something about human suffering and conflict that turns some photogs on. They go into some deeply disturbing corners of the globe to reveal, bring to light the horrors within. The notion of beauty, peace and harmony does not inspire them to raise their cameras. It is the dark side of humanity that charges them. I’m not cut from that cloth. I’m glad there are some who are for those horrors do need to be revealed. But it does wear thin after a while. The number of essays here at Burn that fall into this category is not an insignificant number. Is it all really that compelling? No. Why are there so many? What’s the attraction? Is it possible to over-saturate? Yes. I think.
At the Look3 festival of 2008 the final night of slide shows was overwhelmingly death and destruction, wretched humanity. Essay after essay of this… really did nothing but turn me off. Left early as a result. What was the point?
This is not to say it should all be happy, happy, joy, joy shit. Not at all. But MAN! There is more than a fair share of it to be raked over.
I’ve forgotten the original question, sorry. As I said above, no the photographer should shoot what he/she pleases. And the viewer should respond to the images honestly, without reservation. So good on Nugi and Massimo.
Cheers.
Erica…
It depends on the subject one chooses to work on.
If one titles his body of work say “India”, then he should probably treat it in a “a day in the life of…” kind of way and present as many different aspects of the country as possible. If on the other hand—and this is most often the case—one chooses to work on a more specific topic say “mass transportation in India” then the final result will most probably contain more concentrated “negative” or “positive” imagery, depending on the subject and the way the photographer felt about it while creating the work.
Yes absolutely. It may have even a more powerful affect on things than endless picturing of the Other as victim. I refer you to the work of Heide Smith who recently published a book on the Tiwi Islanders of Northern Australia. I believe you can see the pictures on the Time link but I have requested that Burn try to show some of her work. I particularly love the portraits. They speak volumes and the messages are profound and important.
“Is it possible that when it comes to this idea of equity in personal storytelling, there is no there, there?” What does this mean? I don’t get it.
Jim, you speak of some folks having a fear of failure. I would bring up another side of that coin: fear of success. My husband Ed often reminds me that every time I have met with success, especially with my art or writing, I have quickly moved on to something else. Let’s hope I’ve overcome that fear just in case “success” wants to knock on my door this time around…
Patricia
One day I had to face it: I had a pot-belly growing, the couch was my favourite place, smoking a constant habit and a heart attack seemed to be imminent. That was in 2003 when I decided that I didn’t want to lead a life like this anymore and so I made a long term plan to change my life style. I had 3 major issues: eat healthier food, do more exercise and quit smoking. But how? It was clear to me that this would take years – I wanted a lasting change. Small steps were needed. The main problem was to overcome old habits and to cheat my innerer Schweinehund, my baser instincts. So I had to find a way to do sport which is fun, I had to find healthy food which is nice and tasty and easy to prepare. That took me a while to figure out and because I hardly saw any progress it required lots of patience and stubbornness. I never had a fixed plan or a clear roadmap, just the desire to live healthier. This desire stayed strong over the years.
My last cigarette came very suddenly. I used to roll cigarettes, Van Nelle red. One Saturday evening the packet was empty and I was too lazy to drive to the gas station to get some new tobacco. The next day I somehow forgot about buying some smokes and then late in the evening I thought, ups I forgot to smoke today! I had hoped for such a day and once it was there my plan went into action: My plan was not to smoke for at least 10 days. I knew the addiction would be less after that. Since that day in 2007 I am very radical, like a former alcoholic, no more smokes, not even a puff. Today I have completely forgotten that I used to be a smoker.
Over the years I have changed my diet which has some simple rules: an apple a day and lots of fresh fruits and vegetables if possible, hardly no sweets and no extra fat and only one espresso per day, no filter coffee, very little alcohol. Sounds boring, but it works for me. Of course every once in a while I eat junk food as well. Last Monday I was in Amsterdam with friends and a frikandel special and french fries with mayonnaise were inevitable. Delicious!
During summer I am with Churchill: no sports. I hate gyms and that was one reason to move in a rural area where I can get out of my house in autumn and go jogging over the fields for hours and breath fresh air and no car fumes. No matter if it rains or snows – actually it is great fun to run in snow. To be consistent is the most difficult part and to simply get to the start: put on my traniners and get out off the door. So after nearly 6 years I see a change and a plan which has slowly turend into reality. However the main problem still remains to overcome the inner laziness plus to find the time to do some exercise.
Patricia put it right. You need people who support you.
Sometimes you need someone who whispers in your ear: you can do it! Once you have this little bug in your ear – nothing can really stop you. This gives you the confidence that everything is possible and you can grow wings and fly. Okay, this sounds like an Austrian advert, but I think this is absolutely true. Unfortunately there are only a very few people who have this deep inner believe that everything is possible and who perspire this attitude. Very rare. David is one of the few. I am not sure why people rather try to get you down rather than lift you up? Burn is an uplifting place to me. Viva burn!
A good plan is one thing, to make it real, to put it into action is another thing – much more difficult.
And there is nothing wrong in failure. I guess I failed more often than I succeded. Mistakes are an important ingredient for life, that is when you learn.
With photo plans and projects I feel it is a lot easier and nicer to have an alliance with people who have a similar goal.
In 2005 my main ambition was to photograph sailing events. My friends from university laughed at me and had little or hardly no understanding why I was doing it. And I can picture Panos rolling his eyes when he thinks of a lens over 50 mm. Yes, sailing is a special interest sport and the guys who do it are awfully rich business men and all they do is waste money for a hobby which brings fun, but nothing else. No noble deeds. No social responsibility.
Still, I love the quiet elegance of sailboats, I love the sea!
So I had hardly noone who encouraged me with my sailing photography ambitions, except my own vision. But I wanted it so I slowly made my way to some sailing events, borrowed some big glass and plastic containers and off I went. I love to be out at sea with waves shaking and wind blowing – this is when I feel at home. Surprisingly I had quite a bit of success at the beginning and some nice publications and sales, but unfortunately I didn’t manage to turn it into a fulltime commitment.
Today I am glad I made the experience and I look at the sailing world with a more critical eye. The sea still remains home. Maybe I find some other action at sea which is worth photographing.
Never mind my long explanation. Guess I drifted off the topic a bit…
Reimar
P.S. I am a dog person. But I guess you are lost when someone like Simone asks for attention ;-)
Hi Andrea..
I was referencing Gertrude Stein’s quote about her hometown of Oakland, CA. She said her quote, “There is no there there,” after living thirty years in Paris…for Stein, Oakland had become absent of the signifiers that gave the place substance, ie for Stein it had no succession of places, people, or symbols that conveyed meaning..
When I wrote “Is it possible that when it comes to this idea of equity in personal storytelling, there is no there, there?” I was suggesting that it may be impossible to create a neutral/fair story that has a personal perspective..that although the story could exist on some level, it would be devoid of the qualities that would make it significant in terms of connection/authorship/voice/vision, and would thereby be devoid of substantive meaning…
PAUL…
no cat litter box…..Simone lives at the beach…lots and lots of sand…
cheers, david
PATRICIA…
in my experience, it seems to me that fear of failure and fear of success are one in the same….or, at least manifest themselves in exactly the same way…that is, the inability to MOVE forward at all based on either one of these fears…but, i am not an expert..this is just what i think i have seen over the years from a wide variety of individuals…
cheers, david
I am not a professional photographer, I photograph in my spare time. As such I feel completely free to explore anything I want to with my photography, also as opposed to my professional environment that poses besides many levels of freedom and opportunities also restrictions, trade-offs and negotiations. In my photographic explorations I sometimes start projects or themes and abandon them, sometimes I start projects/themes and finish them. Sometimes a project/theme is just one photo. Most of the times projects/themes start by accident, and are then pursued further, or only discovered in hindsight (when going through the archives). And sometimes a project/theme just exists in my head (as do most of my best photographs). And the freedom I experience in my photography environment then feeds back into my professional environment (and personal environment) and makes me more creative and free there. Not sure if this makes sense, or whether this approach makes me a good/better photographer, but it’s why I photograph. It clears my mind of everything else, and at the same time gives me focus for everything else I do.
PS: and yes, I have a cat that tolerates my existence.
All,
This is why I stayed mum on Indonesia. Compassion fatigue like what everybody else was saying was also getting too old for me. Still, I understand things do not change in spite of all the PJ because the people – the exotic people – really do not know any other world than the world they live in, resistant to change even for the better because no one takes a leap or be the first one to leap.
It is such an eye opener to be able to order a rack of ribs or say a lb burger with grilled onions and mushrooms and such without even halfway thinking that you’re going to have to sell your house to have the luxury of eating that. Or buy a colored TV on a whim without having to sell your only four cows that’s given you your daily milk.
It is a no win situation – I think so too. Gloss over the good things and people say you’re looking through rose colored glasses, and then want the blood and gory, and call you names for being unreal. Show the misery, poverty and death, and people get tired of it, never appreciate your efforts or worse — turn the page. But I think the task is to be original, ownership and authorship, but I don’t know how one discovers that.
There is always this human factor that is so sad – no matter how much success another has achieved, somebody else always would want you to fail because somehow, poverty and failure make somebody else feel fortunate about themselves that they are not the ones wallowing in the mud.
IMHO, it all boils down to the photographer and his/her responsibility to the subject and mostly to his/herself to be truthful, by one self’s definition not anybody else’s, and stand by it, and sleep soundly at night.
Barbara,
I too am not a photographer. But I photograph to keep sane so I can move on, bring justice and substance to what I do and even do better.
To ALL:
Below I post a short passage of a great book of Jorge Luis Borges. SUR.
An Argentian writer that I really love.
The original in SPANISH
En el hall de la estación advirtió que faltaban treinta minutos. Recordó bruscamente que en un café de la calle Brasil (a pocos metros de la casa de Yrigoyen) había un enorme gato que se dejaba acariciar por la gente, como una divinidad desdeñosa. Entró. Ahí estaba el gato, dormido. Pidió una taza de café, la endulzó lentamente, la probó (ese placer le había sido vedado en la clínica) y pensó, mientras alisaba el negro pelaje, que aquel contacto era ilusorio y que estaban como separados por un cristal, porque el hombre vive en el tiempo, en la sucesión, y el mágico animal, en la actualidad, en la eternidad del instante.
and a translation in ENGLISH:
In the hall of the station warned missing thirty minutes. Suddenly recalled that in a cafe in Brazil street (a few meters from the house of YRIGOYEN) is a huge cat that was left to cherish the people, as a divinity neglected. Entered. There was the cat, asleep. He requested a cup of coffee, sweetened slowly, tried it(that pleasure was denied him in the clinic) and thought, while smooths the black cat, which that contact was unrealistic and being separated by a glass, because man lives in time, in succession, and the magical animal, in the eternity of the moment.
I said cheers with the last phrase:
“…because man lives in time, in succession, and the magical animal, in the eternity of the moment.”
WOW 100% true!!
To ALL:
When startin a personal essay, the original idea, oftens swchit to another (better or not), but long term projects changes their own ways… can’t follow the same idea over a year… I think that’s a really good point. The result is pretty good.
It’s follows your instinct, “give up thinking” is good point and shooting with yout heart, not planning at all. THen you plan/think when is necessery to edit.
Patricio
This piece from the NY Times
“Is it acceptable to make art out of human suffering?”
Goes very well with the conversation about Massimo’s essay…
Suffering and Art:
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/16/forum/
Cathy, what would you expect these people to say? They directly or indirectly benefit financially from this stuff. It all seems pretty self serving to me.
Cathy and all
RE: the nytimes link posted above. The photographer Emilio Morenatti, who made the photograph of the child under the netting, has been injured in Afghanistan while on assignment. All the best to him and his family.
Patricia/David;
Some of thar fear can also be a lack of confidence. The “why should i think I’m so special to be able to do something like that” feeling you get. I find that the only solution for that is to get out their shooting and see what develops…
Cheers
Kenneth,
Yes, SO sorry I forgot to mention this. Emilio is a great photographer and it’s a tragedy…he survived but lost a foot today.
Once years ago an impostor was posting Emilio’s photos on a photo sharing website, saying they were his. I alerted the people in charge of the site and have been very interested in Emilio ever since.
Panos asked how many more Nachtwey’s do we need.. Emilio is one we truly need. I hope he will be able to continue his work.
BTW, as far as people whose income is photography, doesn’t a mandatory deadline, or having to come up with the kids tuition or next rent/mortage do marvels for finishing a project?
And doesn’t make it easier to have unfinished projects when the finished ones are timely delivered to the editor/publisher’s office, Monday morning no delay?
“Life is a series of natural and spontaneous changes……Let things flow naturally forward in whatever way they like. ”
————————–
Looks like Lao Tse never went thru a Tsunami! :-))))
Herve;
It depends whether you mean “project” as in a magazine article that brings in the dollars straight away; or a long term personal project you’re working on in spare time around other work. The second costs you money and time, but you feel you have to do it no matter what.
Two different beasts I think.
Cheers
“Success” and “failure” are such personal terms anyway. I mean how do you define either one? Success and failure can be determined by how others view/respond to your work or by how you feel about it yourself. By what the work has cost you either emotionally or financially…or what it has brought you in material and/or personal satisfaction. Perhaps success and failure are best measured by what you learned or did not learn in the making of the work. Maybe it is all about what societal change your work might have triggered, either positive or negative. I think of Eddie Adams whom I’ve read always regretted taking and going public with his Pulitizer Prize winning photo of Nguyen Ngoc Loan, South Vietnam’s national police chief, executing the suspected Viet Cong prisoner in Saigon. I gather Adams felt Loan was a “hero” and that the photo, which certainly helped turn public opinion against the Vietnam War, had been misinterpreted.
So how do YOU define success? And how do you define failure?
Patricia
Patricia;
“So how do YOU define success? And how do you define failure?”
As for financial success; It depends on whether you’re trying to make a living out of photography. If so then yes, you need to pay the mortgage.
But to me; success is the ability to undertake and hopefully complete a body of work that stretches your ability and is also respected by the peers you respect.
Cheers
Success or failure is easy to define if you are talking about completing a project. Either you complete it or not. If the terms are interchangeable, then we can’t even talk.
CATHY….
thanks for the Lens link on this particular topic….
JIM..
i read very carefully the comments on Lens…i know personally all of the editors and pro photographers quoted…to comment that all of these people are making their comments because they benefit financially from this type of photograph is one of the more shallow comments you have ever made here on Burn, particularly considering YOU ARE a newspaperman……
you of all people, who benefits financially from everything your newspaper publishes and every ad dollar it raises, which if every story and picture of your very own newspaper came under the same scrutiny you offer here would surely Burn in hell forever….
cheers, david
We were talking about serendipity before… As an aside; the story I’m working on at the moment demonstrates how serendipity can take a hand in life. The story is about a chance discovery of a heirloom apple that research is showing to have wonderful cancer preventative qualities.
It was discovered by chance by an accountant called Mark Christensen when they were driving along a remote country road. The only reason they found it was because they stopped to stretch their legs. Following the research they have given away 8000 trees into the community. Just an example of how life can turn up surprising results…
http://treecropsresearch.org/montys-surprise/
I have been told, literally, I’m going to burn in hell forever for misspelling a name. What else is new.
‘‘Our work is based on the hypothesis that for every disease affecting human health, there will be a plant with the necessary compounds to treat the disease,” Mr Christensen said.”
The research is being done by a tree crops association. Hmmm.
I know where you’re coming from Jim, but let me nip it in the bud. For a change the research has been done in independent reputable studies (in France & in NZ). I do a lot of work in the organic/green field and don’t worry I often butt heads with those that can’t substantiate their claims :-)
The tree crop association was set up after the research was undertaken as a means to fund the giving away of the trees into the public domain, not as a way of validating their beliefs.
It’s not seen as a cure all for cancer, but as a tool that may potentially prevent cancers occurring. Actually, they’re not making any dollars off it; you’re not going to see it on a cable TV “snake oil” infomercial! Like I said they have already given away 8000 trees, hardly a moneymaking business model!
“If the terms are interchangeable, then we can’t even talk.”
Jim, don’t know what you’re saying here. Who said that success and failure are interchangeable? Not I.
Patricia
ERICA,
about your question, I would quote Nina Berman: ““I don’t believe in the notion of the objective photographer, that somehow a photo is balanced and you’re dispassionate,” she said. “I don’t think that would have value. That’s like a security camera.” “That doesn’t mean I have an agenda,” she was quick to add. “But I do have areas of interest.”
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/11/showcase-3/
I basically agree with such position, I would even be more radical admitting that the photographer has a more or less expicit agenda while shooting.
REIMAR
“Maybe I find some other action at sea which is worth photographing.”
Jean Gaumy comes to mind…
ABELE
i would agree with Nina….objectivity , pure objectivity probably cannot exist…however, this does not preclude integrity…
REIMAR…
i am always surprised Jean Gaumy does not come into more conversations…his work on the high seas is so remarkable….
JIM…
funny…hey, i hope you know i like you…i keep seeing my old original newspaper boss in you….i liked him too, Joe Colognori, even though we did not agree for one second on anything to do with photography…..here on Burn we all wait for the Jimisms, albeit almost always negativity personified… ……however, even when i get seriously upset with you, i would still go out and have a beer with you in a heartbeat…still hoping that happens this fall…
cheers, david
David, cynicism goes with the territory I guess. Better then old investigative reporters. They end up cringing under a desk certain that everyone they’ve outed is trying to hunt them down and change their gender. ;)
I am a cat,dog,horse,snake,monkey,fly,lion…person.
I like them all …
I just blinked my eyes and we have new dialog…new essays, photos…new BURNIANS
old BURNIANS …what a beautiful rainbow of “strays” :)))
WHAT NOT TO LOVE !!!
Is it time for a drink ??? Can I have beer with Jim too???
LOVE YOU ALLLLLL…I miss you ALLLLL…
Civi, got some cold Sam Adams Boston Lager in the Fridge. You’re welcome to all you want. :)
Is that you JIM???
Am I dreaming???
THANK YOU, I am still wearing your silver pan on my head ,facing west,
and I am still traveling…Keep this beer cold in the fridge…I am bringing ouzo :)))
VIVA!!!
Patricia –
I’ve never quite understood Eddie Adam’s issue with that photo, it’s always bugged me and I could never look at his pictures the same way again.
It’s like he was telling people how to react to a photo most found horrifying, a pretty straightforward, truthful execution photo that people saw as repugnant…
I know what you’re saying, Jared. Adams’ public dismissal of that shot doesn’t sit well with me either. But I’m hardly objective about the Vietnam War. Man, I was for ANYTHING to get the U.S. out of that misguided war. And his photo helped, so it’s always been important to me.
David and Burnians, I’ll be away from the internet until Monday night. Going to a writers’ retreat to work on my text for Falling Into Place. Happy to say, I’m feeling good about the draft I have now. I’m sure Anya and Demetria, the excellent authors who are facilitating, will help me tweak it but I think I’m almost there. Yippee!
Patricia
as soon as i saw the kitty laying on the book. i knew it was your photograph. meow:)
Hello All – I’m sorry for the downer post I’m making now
How many of you have photographed the act of or the aftermath of a suicide?
I’ve done two in the last two years.
Today at about noon, a student accessed the roof of the Cofrin library, the tallest building on my college campus at eight stories, and leaped off. I was notified by family that works in the library and headed over to get some photos – when I got there, no other news crews were there, however I guess some light news coverage had been there closer to noon.
I did a couple of blogs about it first on my iPhone blog
http://iphonephotojournalist.blogspot.com
And the next at http://www.jasonhouge.com/Blog.html
On a slightly happier note
JIM I was thinking about you when I took this shot
http://www.jasonhouge.com/uploaded_images/DSC_6451webA.jpg
(can be found farther down in my blog)
serendipity?.. what is?.. I wonder if its more a matter of simply , being aware.. the amount of incidences in one’s life is enormous , so surely if one remains aware then discovery happens.. Science is made up largely of staying being aware of the outside, the unforseen. Science is the same as the arts in this respect… Creativity.. having the imagination to go further with something up until then, undiscovered.
David.. thinking further about your thoughts on why some people succeed and why others don’t, you suggesting it coming down to being able to complete a project… I think its also a matter of reward… One can feel a sense of reward purely by participating.. one may need reward from others.. or maybe our sense of reward changes..
How much pain do you associate with something versus how much pleasure you associate. how I understand it – Some people find a reason not to want to finish something, not to succeed, because they’re afraid of that next level. They would rather the immediate pleasure of playing a video game, or putzing on another project. Probably because they have never experienced that intense pleasure of having something completed, it seems too distant and too much work. If people associated enough pain – as in if they NEVER did finished, they would have wasted all that time, they would never succeed, they would never make their mark, and they associated intense pleasure to having it complete, they would get it done faster and better than anyone could imagine.
Success – is it always completing everything a person starts? I don’t think so – When I worked on sculptures or paintings or what ever and it just wasn’t coming together the way I planned, either I modified my intentions, or I gave it up and moved on to something else. Eventually I might return to complete my prior project because I have a fresh mind, plus sometimes I’ve found a person just doesn’t have the skills to complete a project they begin and over time they gain those skills and that knowledge and return to complete their project.
If completing a project is success then J.R.R. Tolkien’s Silmarillion was a failure as he died before he completed it, even though it was the first book he wrote. Yet it has been published due to his son’s efforts. It is terribly hard to read, but it is done.
David – I just sent you an Email – please read?
David, one of your wonderful gifts is the ability to ask such provocative questions.
I was struck by your your comments about mentoring photographers who were trying to “make a mark”. It got me thinking about the difference between us. “Making a mark” is not something that interests me very much. Like you, I love mentoring young people, and I love our craft. Just in the past two days, two young women have come to my studio for advice and I have happily given them my time. Neither is intersted {I don’t think}, in becoming famous or “making a mark”. Both just love making photogaphs and are exploring the possibility of making photographyy a career.
Yes, there will be those individuals who, through a combination of talent and timing, ego, luck, and yes, hard work, will become the superstars and “make a mark”. But there will also be the troops in the trenches, who just do their work, do it well, and will love what they do.
I appreciate people who love what they do.
Erica, Thanks for explaining. “I was suggesting that it may be impossible to create a neutral/fair story that has a personal perspective..that although the story could exist on some level, it would be devoid of the qualities that would make it significant in terms of connection/authorship/voice/vision, and would thereby be devoid of substantive meaning…”
If I understand you correctly, I believe Heide Smith does this. On the surface of it, her work looks like fairly standard photojournalism – no tricky sylistic stunts, authorship is in the background. But the humanity that shines through, the balance and fairness and her curiosity and interest in the people shows there is definitely a lot of Heide in those pictures. That’s my opinion anyway. That said, I don’t think she is highlighting anything that is not there. She is bringing out the best but that is because its her way. That’s what I think.
If someone wants to focus on the gloomy side of things, they will find it. If someone wants to find fairness they will find it. In process, voice can be a process of selecting rather than stylistic choices. I tend to think that many photographers in Cartier Bresson’s ilk were of this kind.
The inclination to use stylistic processes to emphasise authorship is probably a way of stressing the subjectivity inherent in the way pictures are made. But its worth asking how loud does one need to shout “look at me” to get the point across.
For me, I just like it when the authorial signifiers underpin the concept and feel a bit annoyed when they seem to have little purpose except to shout “look at me”.
re Gertrude Stein (no wonder I didn’t get it). I figure she meant when all the people she knows have left town and the buildings have been torn down and rebuilt, the old has been replaced with the new and different, then the place she holds dear in her memory no longer exists in reality. Its pretty hard to erase all the signifiers of a place though isn’t it.
DAH you must have been camping near a cane field south of
Townsville ,We’ve no cats but have a 3 yr old who insists he is one so I guess that takes care of the pet thing for a while v, but recently FINISHED an exhibition/instalation and it feels pretty good to get a body of work up dosen’t give any sense of closure though , finishing something just gives you a taste for finishing some more?
Jason, nice shot from the playground.
As for shooting suicides, I will not put a story or photo of a suicide in the newspaper. Suicides are personal tragedies for the individual and family, and unless a very well known figure, there is no public interest served in publishing it. I can’t think of many more exploitive things we can do as a newspaper than publish a suicide.
GORDON…
i am with you 100% on this one…when i sit down to spend time with an emerging photographer, one of my main objectives is to find out how the photographer sees herself/himself in the context of the larger world of photography…i certainly do not push for anyone to be more than they want to be, or want to know, or beyond their ability…however, one of the joys of teaching, and i am sure you have seen this, is how so far beyond the original portfolio one can be taken by just mixing a tutorial cocktail of “relax and enjoy and think like hell”….
for sure “making a mark” is in and of itself quite subjective, but most photographers i meet certainly want to grow….this of course means different things to different people…for whatever reasons, i did have a “fire in the belly” from a very early age…but, i also realized early on that not everyone felt the same nor should they feel the same…that was my particular bent, but not the intent of most photographers by any means…
Maria Carusi is a very successful attorney showed me her work about 6 years ago…see had/has no intention of leaving her law profession…she did however find photography to be her “escape” her love her passion…we got her going on a project that lasted about three years and she subsequently published a modest book and had an opening of her work in the town where she lives and several shows followed in larger cities…as far as i am concerned, Maria “made a mark”….i have similar stories for Ann Henning, Kyunghee Lee and Michael Lloyd Young…all photographers with published books, photographers who are “making a mark”, yet have no intention of giving up their respective professions/businesses….
yet, other emerging photographers are on fire to stake out a space among the legends and do so because of exactly the combination of elements you so suggest….these photographers are rare…naturally i owe whatever i can give to fuel their aspirations as well…
most importantly, just as you wrote, the appreciation should be for those who love what they do….
this alone is THE GIFT….
cheers, david
Good on you Jim…
David;
Are you stil contemplating swinging past Aussie later this year?
Cheers
—In Animals in Translation, Temple Grandin writes of driving two indoor cats crazy by flicking a laser pointer around the room. They wouldn’t stop stalking and pouncing on this ungraspable dot of light—their dopamine system pumping. She writes that no wild cat would indulge in such useless behavior: “A cat wants to catch the mouse, not chase it in circles forever.” She says “mindless chasing” makes an animal less likely to meet its real needs “because it short-circuits intelligent stalking behavior.” As we chase after flickering bits of information, it’s a salutary warning.– Emily Yoffe, Slate, 08/13/09
Well it seems relevant.
Abele, David,
thank you so much for directing me to Jean Gaumy! His work is absolutely remarkable indeed!
Of course I have heard of him, but I wasn’t aware that his focus is on the maritime world. I certainly overlooked his work. Sometimes the obvious is so close and you just don’t see it.
You definitely got my brain going. Thanks for that! I will try and find Jean Gaumy’s book about the fishermen somewhere in a library and perhaps I can get a hold of his film about submarines.
Everybody, enjoy the day!
Reimar
PETER…..
yes, i think you are right…”reward” is subjective….
JASON…
your whole cell phone effort is quite interesting…i too have been photographing lately a lot with my cell phone…perhaps ironically because it balances the more methodical work i am doing with medium format film….i did skip your more graphic cell phone coverage of the campus suicide…
however, one of my students, Kerry Payne, did an amazing essay on suicide at our Charlottesville workshop….she is the victim of a family suicide herself and photographed suicide survivors, the families who had to cope….very strong portraits…the whole story in her subjects eyes….she told us it was a catharsis for both herself and for the families she photographed, so i see this essay as quite different than photographing a suicide scene…
JIM…
when i worked for the Topeka Capital-Journal right out of college, i was assigned by the editor to cover a bridge jumping suicide…to this day, i am sorry i went…i did not see the point then or now… i applaud you for taking this stance at your newspaper…
cheers, david
ROSS…
i will be in Cambodia later in the fall…if i have time, i will make a move to Australia for a very short visit…lots of old friends to see….
i do have your link, but cannot take a look until monday or tuesday…if you think i forgot, which is totally possible, please do not hesitate to send me the link again…
GLENN…
yes, i owe you an edit…on the case this week…you have some amazing new work my friend….i would like to publish your essay in september if this is ok with you…
cheers, david
DAH Jim, I suppose we are all suicide “survivors”. It becomes a bit personal for me for a few reasons but most recently I’ve lost two people in my life to suicide both within a month of the other. A cousin and a roommate. My roommate was the most… I can’t find a word. I had brought the police to the apt because I thought he might be suicidal, and as the police went into the apartment he pulled the trigger on his rifle, I was just outside the door in the hall.
With my roommate, he only had one living relative left and she wasn’t even blood related.
Jim, that’s very respectable of you not to publish. I admire it. However I feel too though, it’s not something society should turn its eye from. Somehow photos of the scene must be helpful, since suicide is often encountered with adolescence and college age groups.
How we deal with a suicide and think about it seems very different from those in the middle and far east. So it’s a bit interesting to understand why and how people conclude this is the only way.
DAH, the bridge … Each and every experience we encounter shapes us. Something about that experience may have motivated you to get out of daily news. And perhaps it goes deeper than that. I’m glad you’ve built Burn and attracted so many good people to it… It’s so nice to hear the point of views of others more experienced.
Jim – play ground – thank you! It was a fun reminder of childhood. I spun on that thing for a while and took more photos. Everyone used to get sick of it before me as kids so it was fun to whirl around myself. :)
DAH – September , Great! I’m still getting my head around the whole sound thing at the moment so I should be right to put something together by then after we get an edit.
Cambodia in the fall ? Not so far from Darwin ,Uncle?
Well, I think, until I can learn to understand these situations better, it’s best to just not do any photography of any sort of tragety. I’ve removed the posts from my site. Thank you all for your input and guidence.
Andrea..
I see what you mean about Heide Smith’s perspective in each of her photos, but my point was more about the impossibility of having a sort of neutrality in the photo essay (as opposed to a collection of singles) and still being able to make a poignant personal piece that communicates..to tell a story powerfully I think -maybe- you need a stance beyond showing what is..
Success and failure, apparently can go together. Especially when you are only as good as your next picture… And that you insist being the judge on that, not just the public acclaim.
For an artist, the 2 sides of the same coin, IMO.
Though, a photographer has no claim to how his/her pictures are interpretated. It is simply not the way the medium works (regarding Adams, but also, fortunately here, Atget, and so many).
Ross, the point I was making yesterday is that a photographer can make a body of work, and a life achievement out of only unfinished, even shoddily planned projects, because of the “tyranny” of the single(s) shot(s), which is still the basis of how photography, and its history is seen, appreciated and written about.
All the artists who have tried to voluntarily escape that tyranny (Franck, Man Ray) can almost be said to have shot (if they shot at all) denying, turning their back on, photography, single or essay/project.
Or maybe in the case of Eugene Smith (And Winogrand, in a smaller measure), went into more compulsive tyrannies using a camera, than even the single shot would impose. With the sens of over-arching failure (to go round on my post) that often comes with compulsions that carry the sting of uncurable addiction, therefore unfinishedness. Then they die, and we pick up the pieces, that’s when unfinished becomes…Everlasting! ;-)
Dear David,
Thanks to the help and advises of you and José Azel, eleven years ago I began to work for National Geographic. Now, after 18 years of experience (as a teacher and a photographer) let me tell you that, your words, are exactly the key behind the success.
See you in Perpignan!
All the best
TINO SORIANO
http://www.tinosoriano.com
Greatest Hits are usually singles that were originally a part of a project. When we see them collected in books and gallery shows later, we tend to forget this.
My point, Jim. In the end, save the raret exceptions like “Les Americains”, all people see (and want to see) are singles. Matters little if the project is finished or unfinished as long as it’s only the “idea of” that went, so to speak, to the trash, and the images are kept available.
I just read Allard’s book “the photographic essay”. So telling when we come to him speaking of that “everlasting” shot of the kids running down the country road in France, and he says, roughly from memory: “if I shoot a picture half as good as this one in the next 5 years, I’d still consider myself blessed”…
“if I shoot a picture half as good as this one in the next 5 years, I’d still consider myself blessed”…
interesting comment, understandable, but if I let myself think this way I don’t think I would keep shooting. must be some image..Herve, can you link to it?
Singles..sometimes images that were taken as singles make the series later. Think of Arbus..each was a butterfly in her collection, but each was taken for itself and contained a full story within.
My copy of Allard’s “The Photographic Essay,” is extremely dog eared from the many times I’ve read through it. Excellent book.
can you link to it?
———————-
I have been looking for it, Erica, for the last 15 minutes!!!!
Of course, you understand that the point is that such things can be uttered by a photographer, moreover universally known as ZE essay/ptoject photographer (courtesy of Natl Geo), not that it is justified or indicates his only goal.
I mean, since you mention it, do you really go out shooting to get that “great” picture? I know not. It sounds awful, really is. and see how just saying this makes photography a chore, not the epiphany that it is for all of us (shooting as when not shooting, rtemember the camera-less walk in your neighborood?))?
Great photos are a by-product of something great already, which for being felt only in our heart/soul and not that of any other, is not less both magical and life-affirming.
sometimes images that were taken as singles make the series later
———————–
Probably most photobooks are done in this fashion. The essay being done/planned after the images were shot, long after sometimes, not before.
“…which for being felt only in our heart/soul and not that of any other, is not less both magical and life-affirming.”
thanks for that Herve, you just inspired me to go out and shoot for the project, which is saying something because I just yesterday dropped off 50 rolls of film for processing, am a bit worn out, and just finished the arduous editing of a 1,000 digital images from last weekend’s job…a mind and spirit numbing experience
Jim;
I’ve got two copies of that book. I picked my second copy up at a library sale. They were getting rid of it because nobody read it, I couldn’t believe it. Picked it up for 50c!
David;
Thanks for that, but every time I remind you I feel bad for bugging you!
Cheers
Erica;
Just scored 26 rolls of 800 asa Portra on an auction to use in my new Holga. I’m planning to take a week off mag work and work specifically on my youth project, so the film cropped up just in time! I’ve got two more articles to get out by the 28th and then i should be able to take the week off.
I uploaded 2 shots from my first Holga roll to the project edit. They’re numbers 75a & b. Just a couple of simple portraits, but I really like the images this Holga is putting out. Those two shots were meant to be square format, but dozy me had left the 645 mask in…
I’m trying to save up enough film so I’ve got plenty for summer, only 4 months away, when all the kids will be out and about!
Ross :)) Just shot 10 rolls of chromes in a day in my beater rangefinder with no light meter (but a good lens) and I’m waiting for processing … my hands are shaky and sweating, afraid I got too cocky doing that on film with so little latitude … what the hell is shadow detail and who cares? ;-)) … or maybe it’s just digital crack withdrawal. But it’s good to be working on something focused cause I can’t be a singles dude forever, and serendipity just smiled big. It really is amazing what providence shines when you just do it, roll with it, and become part of the story … but lord almighty, I will never, never drink Seagram’s straight from the bottle again with Corona chaser.
Erica, a thousand digi’s? You? I feel your pain. I’m looking forward to seeing your latest work.
that sort of happened to me TOM when I was in China with my sort of first experience using a camera where the light meter stopped working in an old Minolta 101 with a bag full of chrome film, well, a dozen rolls was a bag full for me back then, and used the general principles illustrated on the film package. Yes about a third were off but still came back with some good images. Certainly they could of been better exposures but I was so naive about technique, still am, that I had no worries!
These days I’d have much less confidence especially how expensive chrome film is these days.
Tom; “afraid I got too cocky doing that on film with so little latitude” But that is where the “happy accidents” often happen!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ighu4gGlaUE
Killing me softly – Fugees
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMn2cCBwH18&feature=related
Nas
Panos;
How about this? One of my favourite Stones song ever…
Nas – Ether
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlF8kJvMEvg
( parental advisory )
ok.. Ross…
its hard for me to top that off …
hmmm… gimme a sec…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUspb0gFprI
L.A TODAY…
please “examine” the above video!
i beg u!
Panos; no need to top it off, just enjoy! :-)
Last one for me.
just kiddin Ross:)))))))
Me too :-)
Ross: Tom; “afraid I got too cocky doing that on film with so little latitude” But that is where the “happy accidents” often happen!
Ross, if it works, it won’t be an accident but pure skill … see, cocky ;-))
Peter, I’m working under the principle that exposure and focus are greatly overrated.
… don’t swing at that Jim, it’s too easy.
“if it works, it won’t be an accident but pure skill … see, cocky ;-))”
Ain’t that the truth! :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrCyULhv_JM
( i really dont know why i post this…:(
Yes TOM, I also strongly agree. I’m undoubtedly in the camp that the moment is the essential element.. then focus and then exposure…. without the moment, as far as photo documentary, there is no insightful image.. the only thing i find about focus is that if the depth of field is very shallow and the focus is on the wrong plane then that detracts from the element , and the same goes for exposure but generally I totally agree.
I lived by this philosophy for so many years..
Yes TOM, I also strongly agree. I’m undoubtedly in the camp that the moment is the essential element.. then focus and then exposure…. without the moment, as far as photo documentary, there is no insightful image.. the only thing i find about focus is that if the depth of field is very shallow and the focus is on the wrong plane then that detracts from the element , and the same goes for exposure but generally I totally agree.
I lived by this philosophy for so many years..
Peter,
not all documentary photography has to be about the moment. What about documentaries about places?
Thats a good, and I guess, obvious point. I’m personally very much intrigued by human culture, so my mind is often set on this thing of capturing , or trying to catch what I see as the essence of human nature.
Excuse me Rafal, didn’t mean to not include your name, as I was responding to your thought.
thanks for that reminder Rafal.
ROSS…
well, thanks for your courtesy, but you really do have to stay on my case…i do not ask people to keep reminding me of things if i do not mean it…for the next few days i will be with my family doing family things, but starting monday or tuesday, i will be back in full work mode…
RAFAL…
surely not all documentary photography needs to be about moment…and for the last 20-30 years there has even been an artistic movement to minimize the power of moment…a basic and natural reaction against the HCB school for many reasons…
one reason of course is just the fact that there is even a “school” of any particular style…once there is a “school” , the newer artists MUST react against it…if one assumes this to be true or at least an observable movement, then i think in the next 20-30 years, or sooner, the “moment” will return in artistic popularity like a freight train…
why do i think this?? because for sure it is the most RARE of photographic disciplines to successfully complete/imitate…..so many other “schools” can be easily duplicated or at least the imitators can come close to the “original”, but as i look at the thousands of uploaded images and the hundreds of new photographers and the myriad of shows and books, the MOMENT is rarely there…just cannot be copied…very hard to do successfully in the first place….the reaction against HCB or the paralyzing MOMA Steichen “Family of Man” show will surely run its course in the next decade…
at some point there will just have to be an equal reaction against the banality “school” as there was against the moment “school” in the first place…now, i have way way oversimplified the course of photo history here….but, i think you get my drift….
my point is this…by the time new emerging photographers decide to “place” themselves into a particular genre, that genre is most likely “over” or certainly owned by the originators…
just like music, if the masses know about it, it is OVER for the serious creators..
so all of us must just follow our hearts…do what comes natural…if your style happens to be “in” at the time, so be it…but, if not, do it anyway, because it will “come back” or, more importantly, a hybrid form of it will…
the AUTHENTICITY of any serious creative effort will come through…and with the plethora of work out there now, authenticity will surely be the benchmark….
i look forward to publishing Riverside which i think approaches the hybrid quite well….
cheers, david
Common David conceptual art has always had a stranglehold on all things banal and boring ………. underexposed 50 ASA was our speciality, on really sunny days outdoors we used 400 ASA film to get that thin washed out look
Ross, Tom..good to hear of the fun with film :))..I almost wanted to smack someone the other day who saw me loading a roll of bw 35 and exclaimed in disbelief “Where did you get that?? Didn’t Kodak go under?” grrrr…
Tom, thank you, and I am looking forward to seeing the new work too. My hope is that it looks like it felt. Some of it was with Andrew S’ old old 50 lens and Jim’s new new 35 lens, and I haven’t seen anything from either yet. A little nervous that I wasn’t able to test the lenses before bringing them into the fold and relying on them, alas. the digi stuff was all just work. Most of the burden comes from lack of workflow, which I really should learn as I shoot more work on digi. Have work this weekend tho which is mostly film, need to pack and go now, keep the fire burning for me here…
DAH..talk Monday..
What a difference a cat can make to a place!
David Alan
Just curious about the “paralyzing”’family of man show” I’m not sure what you meant by paralyzing.
Regarding “schools” and “moments”, are schools legitimate movements, or just what is trendy?
All photographs are moments. Sometimes very static ones, and sometimes as with HBC, amazing commpositions plucked from a quickly changing scene. Very organic. Sometimes, however, it can just seem like a clever trick.
just like music, if the masses know about it, it is OVER for the serious creators..
————————-
You can say that again… the serious P creator is probably dead already, by then! :-)))
Gina Martin posted that on Facebook, about Don Weber:
http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_36434.aspx
Just a thought: if the moment is not in front of the camera, it is behind it, or waiting to be seen (ie. what is in the frame becomes a moment in time). Photos, for being the products of a recording mechanism, have a funny way to trump us and derail the certainty we so intently want to see LITERALLY, in them.
It can take years for a moment to come about, in photography…
Photos, for being the products of a recording mechanism, have an uncanny ability to trump and derail us from what we so, LITERALLY, want to see in them.
Herve :)))
Don is a close, personal friend of mine and marina’s ……it’s lovely to see someone mention him here…and the work….which actually has matured since he did his work on Kiev mafia….
running
Sorry for the repeat, forgot to erase the first sentence…( I am becoming desperate why I send so fast after writing again and again, while I should know better by now).
Sitting on a train for the next few hours if anyone wants to chat photography here, ideas, questions…
Okay, will just ramble..
Am reading Barthes’ Camera Lucida, and he remarks that he imagines that the photograph of the photographer and the photograph of the viewer are separated in that the photographer’s photo is linked to his vision of what he framed. The viewer’s photo comes from the chemical revelation of the object.
This makes sense to me in that for me, the images on the 50 rolls I dropped off but remain unprocessed, exist for me as photos. Often as I an drifting to sleep, I see them as photos, not as moments, and I edit them in my mind assuming victories and failures with regard to the 2 dimensional print.
Then again, Arbus said that all her images were either better or worse than she imagined. So maybe the photograph becomes the same for the photographer and the viewer once it is viewed in the physical, because the photographer becomes spectator. And maybe it is whenwe can’t step away fro
the role of camera operator that we become poor editors, because we are poor spectators.
because we are poor spectators.
—————————
Doesn’t this “poverty” disappear if we have no reason to select pictures (for professional or publishing, ie. public, use)?
erica, i deal with this by not getting my film developed for months after i have shot it. (for personal work anyway).
by the time i finally get it processed, i’ve forgotten everything that i have photographed anyway (although i keep a record of times/places/names in a notebook)
That cat story takes me back to my childhood. I was never a cat fan either. I always liked the big clumsy dogs that seemed to smile as you greeted them and nearly knocked over by the strength of their tail-wagging.
Growing up, my neighbor had a Siamese cat named “Bruiser”, after the wrestler Bruiser Brody. His favorite past time was napping on your shoulder, rump facing forward. If you were sitting down and not paying enough attention to him, he would simply hop up and lay on your head. Weirdest thing.
Although I still prefer the big, goofy dogs, Bruiser taught me to respect the strange quirks that come with cats. Enjoy your status as adopted cat-owner.
I suspect Panos will dig this:
I am sure David wrote that here a long time ago but I think that selecting editing, sequencing must be part of the work and acquired knowledge of/for being a professional/publishingphotographer.
Someone who can’t learn to, at some point or another, look objectively at what he/she is doing in their profession or art, will always be mired in wishful thinking-ness and amateurism.
unfinished things about 95%
finished 5% or less
Not only in photography… in painting and sculpture also or anything I do… no excuse of course :)
I was this talented one.
but who care.
I do not.
I have a dog. Black big crazy dog.
But I have a cats nature.
So be nice for yours cats please.
Cats have the soul.
peace for finishers.
Herve, I think you are right that the poverty disappears. What happens tho when we take self portraits and the ego rises in spectator mode though?
Benr, in my case it isn’t a problem, I become spectator when the negatives arrive, but my point was to question if all photographers see the image as linked to the taking, or if some, like Arbus, are somehow different in their connection to what they saw. Maybe it is effected by emotion?
I mean in the mind, before the image is seen
Hey, since, we’re kind of on the topic of Cats and animals yet,
I’m interning with the local animal shelter as they’re revamping their look. Basically, I’m helping redesign their identity. I’m currently working on their website and if anyone has some ideas I’d like to hear them.
Heres a link to the current basic look I’ve come up with – its static however if you click it once, it’ll show you what the drop down menus will look like, double click and it returns to the original view…
http://www.jasonhouge.com/BAHS/index.html
I’m going to be changing the background next… still trying to find a way to post feeds rather than full stories…
any ideas? photography integration? We would like bigger better photos.
Please email me – jason@jasonhouge.com
If you don’t want to clog up the discussion here. :)
GORDON…
well, it was 1955 when Edward Steichen rolled out Family of Man…that was certainly the end of a certain type of documentary photography to be exhibited at MOMA….some would say photojournalism itself died appropriately …when John Szarkowski took over soon thereafter as the photography curator at MOMA, he brought in a whole new style that has lasted henceforth …. so i think “trendy” would not be an appropriate term since this trend has held for 55 years…..i suppose Szarkowski sought to end “sentimentalism” in documentary…
cheers, david
Erica;
I work with an editor who actually didn’t know what a transpareny was until I explained it to her!
I think most people still look (and will always look) at photos with the same human touch/eye/approach that was behind Family Of Man. I do not think that the re-appreciation and critical appraising levelled at it from cognoscenti and intellectuals, ever entered the public discourse or even its mind.
The most popular non-studio, non-conceptual photographers are still exponents of that “recognizing the basic humanity that we all share” stance. Very little post-modernism there.
Certainly, when I open any daily paper, to speak of a daily way of seeing published pictures, and appraise what is routinely shown, pictures are for the most part, “family of man” material.
Many a photograph loses it’s relevance once it was taken………………. some images never have a role to pla.
Brian..:))
yeeep..
“Grief is terrible if it is far away, if it is invisible or if it is approaching slowly, but when it comes up to you, when you put your arms around it and press your bones into it, it is not terrible but ordinary.”–Andrey Platonov
The wind got up in
the night and took our plans away.
–Chinese Proverb
I wish to tell you a story.
From an absence that has crowned the last 10 days of my life, small knots of wind have entered the aging corners of my body and life and have begun to shutter about the dust and lamentably stubborn ideas and work and, up to this point, practice that has furnished the rails along which I’ve tried to transport some direction of meaning: of my life, of my photographic practice, of some kind of reconciliation to my childhood in Asia and all the terribly grandiose weight that those ridiculous words convey. I had, originally, hoped for a clean, small thing: to write, to photograph alot (which I have done), to read, to sit and think, to sit and breathe, to sit and allow silence to coat the space around my life. To simply have some time to breathe and to listen and to mediate and to look and to photograph and to finish. To be, simply, alive with something that has made me the person I am.
All those plans, all our plans, how they go afar. And now, after having returned from a night when I arrogantly decided (is there anything else in truth but an arrogant decision) to finish a project by some silly and arbitrary timeline. Serendipity indeed. For now, much is, like small dust bowls accelerating vertically, aloft and scattering and drifting away. Strangely, rather than to reach out and pull it all back, as I’d always been inclined to do, I’ve decided, or rather something else has decided, to simply let it go, to watch it spiral away. Shorn, shorn, in reverse and away.
On Tuesday evening, I called my father and told him to throw away everything that is in my small, cramped storage space in florida: more than 2,000 books, a box filled with writing, a collection of boxes, letters, tshirts, paintings, drawings, textbooks, an album of my life that my grandmother had made for me before she died, and all the negatives that I’d originally decided not to bring with me to Toronto when I married: the color work I shot when when I was trying to understand color, the black&white film that I didnt think was of any interest, all the prints that I had made that somehow didnt seem to make sense, and all the negatives that I developed but had never really examined. For nearly 6 1/2 years I kept that storage, like a sarcophogus, housing my entire material life prior to my life with my wife and son, ridiculously clinging to all those things which had nurtured me and protected me and sheltered me and ultimately deadened me. The books, without which I cannot imagine my life; the films without which I could not be the photographer I am now; the letters and the poems and the stories and the scribbling; the paintings which allowed me to move past pain and grief and reckoning; the boxes, like signposts, that marked out the highways and backroads of my life. All of them, I have jettisoned. All of those, now gone.
That was then, this is now.
Sometimes when I read or listen to people speak of projects, of wealth, of ‘accomplishing something’, of finishing, of producing something, of ambition and goals and desires of fame and of knowledge and of meaning and of growing and of becoming something of making ones way in the world of reaching some destination of making photographs of making books of garnering recognition, i feel bereft and sad. I feel, though I understand all those human desires, deeply sad, not because they do not bring joy and reward to some and pain and disillusionment to others, but because I weary of the discussion and the focus on such ephemeral and weightless things. We finish nothing though we are ourselves will be finished. Our need, our very real and necessary need to accomplish and mark and materialize our place here within the extraordinary short span of breath is a way (do we know another?) to stave off the fear and the suffering that we know we shall depart and fall away and it is a way for us to convince ourselves that we are bigger and more meaningful than others, more meaningful than that and those which came before us and which shall supplant us. And yet, even in our vanishing, we remain: do we not? Maybe in fact, though we are finished in our death, we beautifully and oddly continue, live on. Not within our work (that is a human illusion) but within our having been here to being with: we pass ourselves into the skin and lives of our children, we pass ourselves into the earth and air because we were once of this place, and though everything about us will be forgotten and vanquished, our names and our importance and our books and our work and our money and our bones and our foundations, but because were were here so too all that comes after us.
I told my father to throw all of that stuff away not because i no longer need them (I am not buddha, I am not a saint, i still crave all those things that I had needed and accumulated) but because what I really need now, what I really need to live and to love and to make this life something substantial, what I really need to be a good husband and father, what I really need to be a good friend and teacher and son, what I really need to be a good photographer and writer and artist, what I really need, most importantly, to be a good person is not and cannot be measured in all those boxes and canisters sitting in the storage closet, but in the moment of now and being here, as much of me that is possible to be here now, for my wife and son and people and places around.
And I have only gotten there because I have hungered for silence and I can’t find it now, because things mean something to me: people and places and books and photographs and breath, not for saving, but for living them.
I wish to tell you a story.
In absence, small knots of wind have entered the aging corners of my body and life and have begun to shutter about the dust and lamentably stubborn ideas of my own life and work and, up to this point, rails along which I’d tried to transport some direction of meaning. Much of those ideas, over the last two weeks, have been scattered, many of the words that skull-ticked my head now seem to be scattering there, over the sweet-lick of the horizon and thought not yet certain or comfort, I am here to say only that it is a fresh cleaning that was much too long in the waiting, but I am here, for a brief moment, to tell you a story.
My wife and son are in Russia and I have spent the last two weeks trying to stitch together pockets of silence though much to my dismay my handwork doesn’t seem to be working. Surrounded by so much noise, new neighbors and friends and students calling, the squawk of emails pursuing the back of my silence (‘can u look at my work,’ ‘can we meet for a drink’ ‘can you help me’ ‘can you write something’ ‘can you send us some photographs for our”do you want company’) like a hunter,
Over the last two weeks, many of those ideas have been scattered, many of the words that have always skull-ticked my head now seem there, over there not here, pointed finger rodding: there, over the sweet-lick of the horizon with a thought not yet certain or comforted– a fresh cleaning that was much too long in the waiting. But, I am here, for a brief moment, to tell you a story and even that story is getting away from me.
My wife and son are in Russia and I have spent the last two weeks trying to stitch together pockets of silence, enough of a patchwork to produce something, to trap the shape of that thing which is swirling around, like a huge parachute: as a child, when i was 12, with classmates we played a game at school on May Day which involved the entire class running beneath a huge, white balloon-expanding tent of a parachute (held tied to the earth by our teachers), trying to switch our place by running from side-to-side, before the white bluff came crashing down upon our tiny thin shoulders. Nearly 30 years later, there I am again but rather than the warm green earth of a schoolyard in Pennsylvania, I am sitting on our front porch and trying to harness some kind of equalibrium from all that movement and billowy space and falling up and returning aside. I am trying to tell a story, and the words are scattering across my eyes like the shadow of the sun against that long-ago tarp…
I wish to tell you a story.
Much to my dismay none of the my handwork over the last two weeks seem seem to be working. Serendipity.
10 days of being alone, hungering for silence and yet surrounded by so much noise: new neighbors on the porch debating the relationship between God and the garbage strike (yes, they were sucking upon water-bong ideas) with voices louder than teens on a friday night subway run; friends and students calling to talk or meet; the squawk of emails pursuing the backbone of my silence (‘can u look at my work,’ ‘can we meet for a drink’ ‘can you help me’ ‘can you write something’ ‘can you send us some photographs for our”do you want company’) like a hunter, and then the nights, and partial days, photographing to bring to rest my four-year project on Asians, which in truth is my four-year reconciliation of my own face and memories and brokered identity. And all is scattering, all is emptying, all is, like a jig-saw puzzle that begins to make sense only after your child has kicked a few pieces beneath the couch, all begins to crystalize, not from anything planned, no rather despite the planning and the hard work and all the hours photographing and all the years listening to stories and all the hours listening and asking questions and then a small sentence comes, when you least expected, when you least wished to hear it, when you thought, arrogant and opinionated and certain of your own ability to make sense of words and images, when you with callow joy thought you were onto something comes a small burst of words:
“you are not really showing us, i dont think, but yourself”
I wish to tell you a story.
When my wife and son left, I hoped for 4 weeks of silence. Four weeks to photograph hard and as much as I could, to break all that now defines my life (silence and calm and small scribbles of words) and to try to bring closure to this project that has been one of the touchstones in my photographic life. I thought too, I would write alot. I thought I would write an essay for a fellow Burnian’s upcoming essay/book. I thought I would finish writing an essay for a Los Angeles blog that has asked to interview me. I thought I would stave off distracting sounds and voices and whatever I had thought would be a distraction. I was wrong.
I have finished the project….the film (shot over the last 2 weeks) is sitting….I am changing the course….
Photos dont teach about others, do not instruct us, do not avail ourselves of our illusions about others, but they may, if we are open, peak open some the veil that covers us, may afford us the chance to discover something about ourselves…both in the act of looking at pictures, thinking of them, taking them into ourselves, but also in our act of watching and listening and photographing……
We do not really photograph others. In our stubborn and arrogant need to stem the tide against all, we hunger to believe we know something, we hunger to report, we traduce ourselves by believing that we are witnessing, that we are spelling out the rhyme and time of life of others, but in truth it really is our own selves that we are trying to surmount. We must be careful to understand this, otherwise we turn others into just that: the other, someone, something to be used up and billeted and marked on the board as something less important than ourselves. Is others that we really see, or are we really projecting our own needs, our own fears, our own determinations onto them? Most probably yes, and yet, strangely, does this not occassionally draw us closer, within our own honest reconciliation, toward others? For some, yes. For others, most likely not.
My entire life, and whose life has not been, has been defined by chance and fortune and serendipity. I met my wife only because of that collision of moment and circumstance, none of which I had planned; every photography project that has ever come to me was just that, through a collision of fortune and circumstance, which probably reflected the each and every moment that had defined my life. I did not take myself, at 2, to Taiwan and yet, 40 years later, I am working on a project on Asian immigrants and students. I did not choose to marry a single, mother from Russia, and yet oddly when I was 14 I cried like a baffoon when Aloysha Karamasov gave his speech at the stone, when I was 17 I wrote letters to Phan Thị Kim Phúc (never sent) in my diary only to 35 years later become a photographer, when my parents divorced and I held my father in our garage as he howled about life only to hold my son in my arms when he was disconsolate 30 years later…..
I am wearied of speaking about photography….for 2 years I fought in my head with Barthes (my dog-eared, stained copy of Lucida still next to my bed) while most of what i remember is Kafka’s understanding of photography and than his mothers photograph is never revealed, the wisest thing about that book, and than there we go….
I wish to tell you a story….
i photograph, i write, i read, i listen, i speak, i eat, i brush my teeth, i see, i remember, i hope, i miss, i fear, i love, i hold, i run away, i tear, i hate, i hunger, i ignore, i built, i tear away, i refuse, i accept, i witness and i forget, i mute and i holler, i dream and I teach, i take and i give, i sit and i run, i wait and i leave and i hope and i hope and i hope and
i
hold
and then i let it go not from fear but because what else can we do…..
i miss my wife and son, i miss my parents, i miss my brothers, i miss all that came before and i miss all that i will never see…..
i remain until i am gone
and i let it breathe….
and i wonder, am bewondered, am ticked and tricked and pricked and at peace…
i miss my family and they live inside of me….
and my stupid pictures are nothing, but they are who i am
i am in love with the living of this life
and
i am here and they are here and you are here
and
they are who i am, they made me, not I them….and I try never to forget that….
that is all….
bob
Right Understanding.
All that is subject to arising is subject to ceasing.
Damn, Bob. Just damn. You made it.
jim :)))
thanks so much…..but as i know u know , it’s only ’cause of my wife and son…they frickin’ taught me everything that my parents tried to teach…it all comes full circle doesnt it….and i miss them terribly…
ok, gotta run….done enough blogging for one night…)))
need a beer :)))
.alternativly, one can reclaim the objects/artwork of the past and intertwine it into the presentso all boundaries become blurred. Even the recent work is reclaimed altered and allowed to travel another journe until it wears itself out and scatters intself into a space unknown. The joys and sorrows are released to play in the decayed spaces of time and amid my dubious memories.
David – I haven’t read the comments above, but I did read your post. I have a Simone… his name is Henri. He’s 9 months old, black and white and came to me in April or May. Just walked up on the porch and never left. You can’t plan for Simone’s or Henri’s, but many of the best things in life were never planned. Right now I am in Mexico and Henri is in Austin and I miss him dearly. Another drop of serendipity brought me together with the woman house and cat sitting. (How do you travel an have a pet?!) I met her daughter only last week. But, when I opened my suitcase in Mexico, Henri’s favorite toy was there where he left it for me while playing in my open 1/2 packed suit case the night before.
I usually finish what I start and I do everything I can to keep my word. Life throws many things at you and it all gets very tricky. But then life brings you Simone or Henri and reminds you that some of the best things are unplanned. Still hard work, but all worth it.
Kelly
P.S. Henri is really Henry to almost everyone… he’s more Texan than French.
and so on…………….. http://www.etrouko.com.au/book24.htm
just walked around the block (sans camera this time)…and thought of panos and his music….and after the long spray of thought and words, though, i owe brother panos some music.
i mean who the fuck hasn’t been in the back of a cab (black or yellow) and thought there was plenty of room to do your shit and realized you’re hope was bigger than the back seat….
and somehow, serendipity, the music still comes out from the back of the cab….
right panos? ;))))))))))))))))))))
and before london cabs, there was this from this dudes…
That god damn pesky lizard is chilling the bones again http://www.etrouko.com.au/lizard.html
Bob, wow!
You write so much and I am such a slow reader and even worse I am in a hurry. So only a quick note. I read most of your text and copied it into a word file so I can read it again when I have more time to contemplate what you have written. You are a such a great guy indeed! Good you are back home!
I am so bad at throwing away things. Uhhh, awful! I animate objects and gather all that stuff – films, prints, negatives, books, all kinds of useless, sentimental nick nack. My mother is even worse, so I blame the genes. During this summer one of my main projects was to throw away all this old junk. And believe me I got rid of tons of stuff. This is very liberating and makes you feel a lot lighter and ready for something new. A good feeling indeed!
The only lasting thing that will hopefully survive me are the trees I have planted. My deed for the future.
This time I am running. Got to pack my stuff. I am off to Russia with an aid convoy to bring material goods to orphanages near Kaliningrad. Yes, I will bring a big smile for the kids as well!
Hope I can handle all the booze… Back in a week.
Be good!
Reimar
HERVE…
yes, you are quite right…what you see in the daily newspapers etc is still often Family of Man material….and the mass audience is , as you say, not concerned by the various “movements” in the world of photography…i was only speaking on the acceptance thereof by the curators at MOMA and the like minded gallery crowd, publishers etc…what you see in the daily grind is certainly not what you would see in the finer books and/or exhibitions which are often quite influenced by what is accepted by MOMA, the Whitney, Tate, etc ..
cheers, david
BOB…
brilliant post….thank you…certainly you have paraphrased in essence Shelley’s Ozymandias …
you wrote…”Sometimes when I read or listen to people speak of projects, of wealth, of ‘accomplishing something’, of finishing, of producing something, of ambition and goals and desires of fame and of knowledge and of meaning and of growing and of becoming something of making ones way in the world of reaching some destination of making photographs of making books of garnering recognition, i feel bereft and sad.”
just to set the record straight, none of these motives of which you speak are motives we have discussed here on Burn nor did i mention any of those things in my post…..there has been not one word ever from me about “fame, wealth, accomplishment, or recognition”….those may be words or thoughts in your head, but not in mine nor in any conversation i have started here…
however, i do see your point if it is directed towards “false motivation” in general and would agree with it wholeheartedly….nevertheless, the act of creativity or specifically of creating a body of work which “holds” should not be made to seem somehow lessened because in fact someone finished what they started….
just as you created the piece you just wrote, got it down on paper, and finished it with cerebral aplomb is all i have ever meant by “finishing”…
your collected writing has value….
if i were to take all of your pieces here and put them in one place, that would indeed be a body of work…of value….to have this work stitched together between two hard covers and to bring this process to fruition would not mean that you were seeking “fame , wealth, accomplishment, or recognition”…it would simply mean that you finalized the process…
it would simply mean that your words, which will yes eventually blow away in the wind and covered with sand as per Shelley, will for some time have a value to those who read them…and they will represent knowledge passed on which is the heart of the human condition….but, if nobody reads them, in theory they never existed…
i suspect that all truly creative people do not have an “end game” in mind when they are in the act of creation..however, in today’s heavy marketing of what we do as photographers, one can easily become lost in the vagaries of intention…hence the value in what you just wrote…i imagine that it is all a matter of perspective and in knowing what in our lives serves one purpose and what serves another and in keeping the lines clear…
one cannot get in a car and drive down the street to buy a sandwich without crossing at least 3 “lines” of environmental abuse and succumb to an ad mans marketing campaign etc etc…so each day we justify so so many things that we have no choice but to do…but, my point is that i think photography and the essence of creation can indeed be uplifting and does not have to go down the dark path ….
one cannot assume that because someone “finishes” that they have the negative motives which spurned your text and has left you “sad and bereft”….
clearing your head psychologically of all that “stuff” you had in your storage locker in Florida sounds likes a catharsis for you…and yes yes it would all turn into dust someday anyway, but are you sure that at some point in your life one of those books or negatives or prints or whatever would not have served some value for either your wife and son or for some student of your son 40 years from now???
well, that is a personal decision of course….just playing devil’s advocate a bit…Bob, you are an avid reader and student of every photographer who has ever done anything…simply put, had those writers and photographers you have studied so carefully not “finished” something, you would not have read their words nor seen their pictures…
my dog eared copy of Roland Barthes (a finisher for sure) “Camera Lucida” is in a card board box in a storage locker right now waiting to be unpacked…my temptation is to do what you have done and just jettison the whole storage facility…it is so full of “stuff” i will never never deal with…but, maybe just maybe there is a nugget in there that will rise to top of the pile and will be of value to someone somehow someday….certainly a storage facility of past work does not necessarily mean it is a psychological weight that needs to be cleared….yet, if this was a catharsis for you , then so be it….
again, many thanks for your story and for your thoughts…you always take us to new territory and into new ways of thinking about life and photography….i fully intend to work with you on getting your work , both photographic and literary, into print…it deserves a place….i am sure neither of us will be motivated by anything other than the desire to see something in print which you have created which is quite uniquely Bob Black…its net value may or may not be determined by others, but you Bob will have done all you can do and this is its own reward…and both of us will have to finish what we start….
cheers, david
“clearing your head psychologically of all that “stuff” you had in your storage locker in Florida sounds likes a catharsis for you…and yes yes it would all turn into dust someday anyway, but are you sure that at some point in your life one of those books or negatives or prints or whatever would not have served some value for either your wife and son or for some student of your son 40 years from now???”
That could happen, but all that baggage tends to prevent us from living in the present (which should be our goal), so we live in the past with a storage locker full of stuff we will never look at and in the future because “maybe” some of that stuff might have value to someone in another lifetime.
We aren’t obligated by the past or to the future.
slightly off topic, but if anyone is interested i collaborate with some mates on a photography blog called insig.ht. i’ve just started a topic for discussion called “Has the era of the “iconic image” passed?” that might interest some of you.
http://insig.ht/2009/08/has-the-era-of-the-iconic-image-passed/
cheers
ben
bob,
Wow! Long as usual, but so true.
Regarding “success” I think we have to aim high. If we don’t we’ll never get anywhere. The danger is when goals becomes more important than the act of photographing. If a photographer think that the goals are more important then the act of photography I think that it becomes very obvious.
Cheers
David
You probably not agree with me but I think there is two most important things for people who want “make a mark”; firstly it is a talent as a base for everything what need creation and second it is relations with people. We are nothing without other people. It is not important how many things you finished but how you can cooperate with people around. I know many talented persons who are hardworking, patient and persevering but they don’t know how to find themself in social world… and they always disappear. They works hard and then works hard and they have nothing but hard work at last.
If you don’t know how talk with people, how made them useful and helpful you will never get the mark.
and of course a piece of good luck help.
for me it’s all about relations.
it is my oppinion.
DAVID :)))
gotta run, and wont will up too much space now, but thanks so much for the words and reply…we are on the same page :)))…none of my thoughts were meant as antithesis to your post :)))…i’d wanted to write something for 1 week answering your questions to us, and then all this stuff happened this week, with finalizing the asian project, calling my dad to dump the storage, the silence, the nonstop shooting, the decision to not hold on to all those things and than last night shooting, and returning home, and just pouring out: serendipity :))))
and by the way, no shit, last night after i’d written the post, i sat out on the front porch and a tabby walked up to me in the dark (at first i thought it was a raccoon at was startled shitless), and he jumped onto my lap, prrrrrrrrrrrrrr, tail perpendicular….weird…simone’s cousin?? ;)))
more next week, thanks for your own long song :))
running
hugs
bob
p.s. about finishing :)))….yes, i try try to finish stuff, though most of everything we finish never really gets finished, does it…it’s kinda of the same thing….just a different name….funny, cause it took me (actually until i was married) to be able to not finish a book…i used to finish, even if i hated or was board or couldnt get it, ’cause i felt guilty for being unable to finish reading someone else had written/sweated over…now, though i usually finish everything, i realize that it’s ok…(im sure most people never finish my writing or bones ;)) or invisible cities) ;)))…and im cool with that….i just realized that, and it took me 6 1/2 years to get to this place, that i dont need the books anymore, cause they are inside me, and they’re just paper, the books themselves are in my head and heart….and it is or rather has been important for me to let go of the old albums, the old negatives (remember the story i wrote here about my grandmother, after she had died, my father and brother had to go through 10’s of 1,000’s of her slides, and only kept a 4 boxes…and guess what, those slides are sitting in my father’s own storage ;)))…and when he dies, i’ll have to decide what to do (probably keep them and use them for something i have in mind)…but, for me, it is just so important to be clear in my head and in my life:
to value the right thing….to continue to make work, to continue to live as well as i can, i have to be here, in the moment, of this moment, fully…and for me with photo projects, i think being able to finish means not that something is done (or perfected) but that it’s become time to shift tact….a lesson my dad taught about sailing, cant stay in the same line of wind, or you’ll end up in chains (meaning not moving forward or with wind in your sails) :))))…
i’ll show u asian stuff in a few months, now i need to give it some time to breathe ;)))..
running
b
Bob — Thanks for writing this and sharing it here. It is so easy to be distracted by the ephemera of our daily lives it really takes practice, focus and mindfulness to be truly connect to the sublime in every moment.
It’s always there, one just has to be willing to search…
Reading your post I was reminded of a poem I love and think about often.
Cheers,
Adam
The Vacation
by Wendell Berry
Once there was a man who filmed his vacation.
He went flying down the river in his boat
with his video camera to his eye, making
a moving picture of the moving river
upon which his sleek boat moved swiftly
toward the end of his vacation. He showed
his vacation to his camera, which pictured it,
preserving it forever: the river, the trees,
the sky, the light, the bow of his rushing boat
behind which he stood with his camera
preserving his vacation even as he was having it
so that after he had had it he would still
have it. It would be there. With a flick
of a switch, there it would be. But he
would not be in it. He would never be in it.
what you see in the daily grind is certainly not what you would see in the finer books and/or exhibitions which are often quite influenced by what is accepted by MOMA, the Whitney, Tate, etc ..
——————————–
I think one difference with trends and periods in other arts, that become irrelevant, or part of history, once the new styles/visions arrive, is that this stance in photography is still quite relevant, and its popularity is attested by living photographers, not just dead ones.
Not to mention that daily/mass grind, in a medium as ubiquitous and ever actual, still speaks of Photography AS IT HAPPENS in the 21st century, as much as the newest phases. That too, is a bit different from other arts, though movie making and popular music might catch a berth on that train.
Oh yes: Trying to make a mark and making a mark are 2 different things. The biggest mark is not always done by the ones trying.
David, about movements.
Maybe ask ourselves what are they moving? And what relevance in it? Or for how long?
It is only fair that having come against, not along, and not just after, modernism and before, that we now start to apply to post-modernism (or whatever one wishes to call it) the same armory.
DAH – Sorry for my delayed response about the iPhone camera – how are you liking it? it has a different feel to it i think. Really simple actually…
Here are some of the “tricks” I’ve been doing – When I need a super closeup for anything – I use a set of diaptor lenses I bought a while back for a few dollars from a discount tool store. depending how much needs to be focused – thats unusual though.
to color edit – I use a free app called Mill colour its made by this company – http://www.the-mill.com/
It’s simple to use – you can incramentally adjust saturation, gamma, lift, and gain – they usually make software for movies I guess? so perhaps some of these terms (lift and gain) are from that?
Also – there is a noticeable and sometimes irritating delay between pushing the shutter and the shot being taken – but it makes for a good moment to pop a little flash. I use my nikon SB800 and pop the manual button to fill in or to enhance some of the existing light since it doesn’t seem to have much latitude to work with…
So what are you doing with the images you shoot? will you share some with us?
I would like to see how others are using this! Panos?? anyone else?
Adam :)))
I have always loved Berry’s poem: so simple and direct…and they always remind me of being a child and running with my brothers through the fields and corn field behind our home…and driving in the summer beneath light-tickled Georgian tree-held country roads….and he also, always reminds me of the last song from REM’s Fables of the Reconstruction…Wendell Gee….
and i can’t wait to see ur Boxing essay here :)))….
and a poem by Berry i always loved, :
In a dream I meet
my dead friend. He has,
I know, gone long and far,
and yet he is the same
for the dead are changeless.
They grow no older.
It is I who have changed,
grown strange to what I was.
Yet I, the changed one,
ask: “How you been?”
He grins and looks at me.
“I been eating peaches
off some mighty fine trees.”
-Berry
and lastly, here is that song, for u…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcHORmlabYU
hugs
bob
That’s when Wendell Gee takes a tug
Upon the string that held the line of trees
Behind the house he lived in
He was reared to give respect
But somewhere down the line he chose
To whistle as the wind blows
Whistle as the wind blows with me
He had a dream one night
That the tree had lost its middle
So he built a trunk of chicken wire
To try to hold it up
But the wire, the wire turned to lizard skin
And when he climbed inside
There wasn’t even time to say
Goodbye to Wendell Gee
So whistle as the wind blows
Whistle as the wind blows with me
There wasn’t even time to say
Goodbye to Wendell Gee
So whistle as the wind blows
Whistle as the wind blows with me
If the wind were colors
And if the air could speak
Then whistle as the wind blows
Whistle as the wind blows
Wendel Gee–rem
Nicde Jonas Bendiksen video interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gPMbpcrvkE
Another good video from The Canon Professional Network of Stephen Mayes managing director of VII:
Also, Jean Francois Leroy in Perpignan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4TQNxTOmzM&feature=related
this is THE most beautiful statement ever, to me. so many cats have jumped into my lap over the years. but, unlike you, i’ve always loved cats, especially strays. a kitten without a mother once caused me to stay an extra year in a country i’d intended to leave. if she and others had not found me, i would surely have moved on and, would perhaps have achieved one or two of the goals i set myself by now. but that IS the way it is, the way i am, just as you say… and i refuse to be hard on myself because i appear not to be achieving goals at the same pace as others or ‘keeping up’ with the insane pace of the 21st century… love interferes with my plans constantly – leads me into situations and locations unplanned. i’m not referring only to cats but to people and places i come across… and yet, i AM crying… for all the dreams and plans lost by falling in love with so many precious moments, people, places, as well as cats and dogs : )… thank you for this most beautiful statement. here’s to love, and life, and all the amazing different species on this planet in addition to cats, and dogs, and us (and, to hopefully achieving at least some of my goals in this lifetime!
love to one and all,
jenny : )
MARCIN…
of course, you are quite right….none of us live in a vacuum and without the help of others and interaction with others, our works can become quite isolated….some artists interact literally and others only touch the “outside” with the work itself..there is no one artistic personality…
HERVE…
your questions are good…i cannot possibly answer them of course…deciding what is relevant and what is not is just as subjective as are all of the topics here…suffice it to say from an art business perspective, and art is a business, that gallery owners and print collectors/investors , take their cue from the top museum curators…
BOB..
i never thought you were writing the antithesis of the post, but would not mind at all even if you did…….i was just tweaking the thought…i knew exactly where you were coming from, and as i said i “agree wholeheartedly”….this is the beauty of our discussions here….and the point of discourse overall…addenda to an original thought does not take away from that thought ….
peace, cheers, david
Davin,
Try one of these gadgets, good for rabid dogs. Not sure about Taxi Drivers though….
http://www.maplin.co.uk/searchtemplate.asp?criteria=DOG%20DETERRENT
Pete
ALL:
A fellow photojournalist is in need. Please read the story here http://www.the37thframe.org/?p=932
Thanks
Pete Davin could get himself a few cats, rub against them and hit the streets big time
NO TIME>>>>> well.. very little..
http://bophoto-mumblings.blogspot.com/2009/08/no-time-no-time.html
As you well know, David, few of my questions ask for answers…
Though if you could answer the mails I sent you, concerning your time in SF, for the September Family WS… ;-)
Imants, Think of the fun he could have with that !
I find these gadgets to be real useful even for mad monkeys. I always carry one if I go to India it keeps them away. I’ve had problems with monkeys trying to take the glasses off my face in certain places. Crafty little blighters I don’t trust them !
BOB,
that was deep, as is this:
That brings me back, Bob.
Pete,
The Mega Sonic Cat & Dog Repeller is looking very appealing! I may have to get one of those.
Also this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE1Yp2S8Cws&feature=related
BOBus
hey .. found time and read your contribution..
smacked the head of the nail, you did.
:o)
d n family..
I WISH TO TELL YOU A STORY…
BY BOB BLACK
Damnit,after I read your ” book” BOBus I felt that we as humans despite all our “differences”…
we are so “ONE”…
Tonight , I Am Davidb, jenny lynn walker,Akaky, Adam…Herve…Jason……………
all of you…
What not to love!!!
P.S Dear Mr. Dellicson…you don’t need a repeller. You may need to “transform” into a more relaxed zone. If you want to come closer…You got to be assertive but relaxed….hmmmm…or maybe one Ursus in the berani can help :)))
VIVA and I LOVE YOU ALLLL
Civi
Well, getting back to “Familly of man”, that is what the Steichen was trying to tell us…after witnessing the horrors of WW11.
I’m a sentimentalist at heart. Did a wedding yesterday, and shed a tear at the sincere declaration of love between two middle aged people.
Still lovin’ my life, and Y’all.
I was just watching the Utube video of Mary-Ann Golon from Time magazine, talking about the magazine world, getting your stuff noticed, etc. It got me thinking about what it is we do.
25 years ago, I opened a portrait studio, after doing commercial, editorial, and audio visual work for a number of years.
In the portrait business, you have a very limited audience. It is restricted to the subjects friends and family. As opposed to an editorial audience, of tens, or hundreds of thousands of people. My clients will put their photograph on their wall, and look at it many times, every day. For many of them, especially older folks who have grown children and grandchildren, the portraits are un-believably precious. If their house catches fire, it will likely be one of the things they grab as they flee the flames.
If you get published in Time magazine, thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of people will look at your photograph for a few seconds before turning the page. Then they will throw the magazine out when they are done with it. Maybe the photographs will have done their job and informed, changed attitudes, educated, entertainted, enriched.
Not sure where I’m going with this, but I guess I’m just thinking how much I love what we all do. I do love what I do.
And Mr.Gordon,
I love that you love what you do.
if you love what you do
it will show…sooner or later…
What not to love!!!
P.S Say hi to your mom too :)))
BOB.. that was a really revealing metaphor about while sailing you learnt that one has to change tact otherwise you’ll get stuck in a rut. Its necessary.
I also love the respect you feel about respecting another’s work and effort. And honouring your families heritage in the memories of film moments. But also, you know everythings an ebb and flow in moments and moods.
DAVID..
Another thought about your question, or another perspective, is that maybe nothing is really finished but rather little moments are incrementally finished, built upon. Like one single photo is a finished image within itself, then they can be gathered and grouped together in an essay or a book , and then over one’s life. Changing over time and circumstance. As far as more concrete bodies of work for professional purposes maybe what was finished ten years before may not be finished now or what seemed unfinished those years before seems much more relevant now.
I love this thought.. just going to read over some of older responses..
Gordon,
Enjoying your sentiment. Just had guests for the weekend… said they love our “pictures on the walls.” That was very sweet. They provide comfort. Remembrances.
(Though I wouldn’t mind being published in Time!)
(psssst…. civiiii!!)
(pssst…. kathieeeee?!!!!)
(i got me a magnetic wallllll!!)
(i got to tell y’all, it’s super grrreat!!)
(teehehehe)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFr4w-yZLyY&feature=related
Surrealistic film, Anemic Cinema,1926
de’ja vue BOB
My Gracie,
I am so happy for your Success.
I think Tom Hyde was happy with his project…???
I put MAGNETIC PAINT but all the BURN photos are on my floor.
WHYYY, WHY meeeeee???
KATIEEEEEEEEEE
where are you???
BURNIANS …anemic cinema from Panos !!! ( hmmm… where do you find these links? )
Beautiful day, beautiful night… I WANNA HUG you ALL
Tam,tar,ra,rammmm
chika boom, boom, boom…
I am drinking cold beer with JIM !!! VIVA !!!
DAVID..
Just read your response to BOB and it seems you also think on the same line about finishing. It’s complexe and dynamic and subjective and never ever really done. But rather, its a process. A journey as BOB understands.
You’ve certainly got everyone thinking.. Brilliant!
GORDON…
yes, it is hard to beat a picture on a wall….the ultimate tribute for a photograph for whatever reason it hangs…either as a sentimental trigger or as a work of art….i think even the photographers who do make photographs for the mass media, where the original viewing of the photographs will be perhaps for a few seconds in a magazine, do not see that medium as the end game for their work…most are using the magazines as a way of earning a living and fully intend for the work aided by commission to have a life way beyond the flipping of a page…it is such a treasure to be fortunate enough to love what you do…and oftentimes it is more than love….most dedicated photographers i know need to do what they do…
most people WANT…some NEED…..
i always ask a photographer what they need to do rather than what they want to do….if they have no answer for this, then i must help them to dig deep for there is usually something buried inside which can be brought out with their work…this is no easy process for it involves uncovering all of the layers of getting through life sediment which holds many back..if the photographer is able to do this and get down down to the rich soil where creativity grows, then they will find what you already know…
KELLEY …
i have no idea how i will be able to travel and leave Simone unattended…i am about to find out this fall when i will be traveling a lot….friendly neighbors???
PETER….
of course there are little bits and pieces of unfinished essays or simply just the photographs one takes everyday for no particular purpose other than the pleasure of recording something which appealed at a particular moment…i.e. most of my work is totally random daily snapshooting…..so i was not writing about bodies of work for professional purposes…and you are quite right in thinking that what was important yesterday may not be important tomorrow and vice versa….the bits and pieces may in fact be the body of work in the long run…still the importance of these bits and pieces will not be realized unless the photographer decides these bits and pieces have a value and organizes them in such a way that shows the bits and pieces may have been more important all along then the long term intentional work….what i am awkwardly trying to say i suppose is that there is still no way around “finishing” as much as we all would love to figure out and justify otherwise…
cheers, david
HERVE…
sorry, i have not seen your emails….emailing me these days is just not a guarantee i will see it….it is a pain i know, but if you think i miss your email , please send twice…if i am away from email for a few days , i am lost forever….in any case, i will search now for yours and respond promptly….
10 mins later….ok, searched and found nothing recent from you except two singles submissions…try sending to: david@burnmagazine.org…….my other boxes must be full….
cheers, david
Hmmm, gallery news? Just thinking of it …
YOUNG TOM…
Burn gallery show??
we are working on it…
i think i wrote before that we will have at least two gallery events for Burn photographers this fall in New York at the kibbutz and another one at Photo Fest in Washington in november….we have offers for several different spaces for Burn print shows around the U.S.for 2010…
choosing the prints for these shows is our most formidable task ….Mike Courvoisier is with me all this week to discuss and plan for these Burn shows and our fall workshops, seminars, etc…
stay tuned amigo…we will let you know soonest when and how you need to submit your work…
cheers, david
Hi David,
You are absolutely right………The true artist cannot be so much disciplined, so much good executor of what plan he makes…….he must have strong emotion,impulse……There may be some rare evidence but most of the creative persons cannot be a very good plan maker.
Creation comes from breaking the rules and good plan making sometimes hinder to have some out track and outstanding shot.
Personally I try to make empty my mind and do my job as I like.
Though it is right a certain amount of discipline and plan making always helps, still it is hard to get a photographer who finishes all the job he started.
Its all about potential,tenacity,dedication,love and a bit luck to be a successful photographer.
Partha Pal
from Birbhum
DAVID
Now I can breathe easy because I have FINALLY completed my text for Falling Into Place! I’ve just returned from a writers retreat out in the country where all I did for three days and nights–except for scoots in the meadows and woods–was work on my text. I feel good about how it turned out. The four-page text focuses on the project itself and will be at the back of the book. The images will be first and will be shown with no captions.
I’d like for you to read the text and give me your feedback if possible. I’ve just emailed the Word document to you at david@burnmagazine.org under the subject heading “Patricia’s text.”
I have also added four new pics (you’ve already seen two of the four) and removed two from our earlier edit. You can see my final edit of photos for Falling Into Place by going to my website at
http://www.patricialaydorsey.com
and clicking on Falling Into Place under the Portfolios. David, I’d love to talk with you by phone in the next day or two.
ALL
If anyone is interested in reading my text for the Falling Into Place book, please email me and I’ll send you a copy. I’d appreciate receiving your feedback. My email is playdorsey@comcast.net
Patricia
DAVID..
I think I get what your saying.. sometimes its good to finish, to let go and move on.?
don’t need a reply as the thought has been well and truly good.
if you see this thanks David.
Thanks David … yes, the Burn gallery. Looking forward to buying Dr. Joni’s #9 … and Panos’ Jim Morrison in the RV orgy … and a Bickford surfer … and more.
Mmmmm, just fell back in love with chromes, and rangefinder, which was my first “real” camera at 10 (although I remember making the pinhole camera out of aluminum foil and a black and white 126 cartridge when I was younger). Damn, a “new” expensive addiction, a brick of provia on ice … everything i always wanted from my camera but could never quite get, like awful “perfect” digital was training wheels … funny, full circle, back to film. I was never into THE debate but seriously, cheers to wonderful glowing imperfection.
Crap, do I have to get a Leica now? mmmmmmmmmm, leica … shit …
Needs and Wants.
I have a need to make images. Even before I began to photograph I drew and painted, still do some drawing.
I’m not sure it’s so much a need as it is a compulsion. I’m compelled to make images. If I’m not making photographs, I’m doodling. My notebooks are filled with little drawings. Curious, I never thought to question where that all comes from or why I do it.
It seems to be a common affliction.
thank the heavens for this affliction GORDON.
I also feel this compulsion to re-interpret.. re-cord.. re-compose.. re-mind…..
Good point Gordon. If I go a week without taking a picture I feel an overwhelming hunger to shoot. It does feel like a need, for sure. Its not that I want to take photos, I need to take them. No idea why.
Tom,
Going retrograde is a blast. I’ve been getting reacquainted with my M2 and it is just so much fun. Haven’t figured out how to make cash with it, but that’s not the point.
“The only advice I would have for a young still photographer would be to forget all advice and follow your passion with a passion. The Universe has a strange way of supporting lunatics like us that refuse to live inside the box.
There is no box.” Louie Pishoyos, referenced at http://aphotoeditor.com
Stay Focused All
Since several here are working on a book project, I thought you guys might find this article interesting:
“Are luxury photography books recession-proof?”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2009/aug/17/photography-books-limited-edition
(found on a post over at the Rangefinder Forum)
Good to see the Guardian still recognises the value of photography. Maybe they well be inspired enough to review their recent rights grab and pay their photographers properly.
There is a new site sort of like Burn in a way called The Black Snapper out of Amsterdam and it launched on 1 August. I don’t know if it has already been mentioned here or not:
http://www.theblacksnapper.com/
I love my Leicas. But even DAH and Salgado know film is history. It’s funny reading so many folks on the internet who have abandoned digital, gone back to film, and “will never shoot anything else.” Film is a precarious commodity right now. It’s history.
“Film is history.” Should I duck now or will my health plan cover the cost of being hit on the head by flying brickbats (or bricks of Tri-X)?
Jim; I agree but…. I’m loving shooting with my Holga!! :-) In case anyone is interested in looking I’ve put a some new project work up on Lightstalkers.
Actually; I’ve enjoyed seeing Joni’s essay up. We are both shooting a similar subject but at complete opposite ends of the spectrum! Both valid; but each the antithesis of the other!
Ross, Took a look. I really liked 9 & 12.
Thanks Brian. It’s a really loose edit at the moment, really just seeing where it goes. Cheers
You know I did an MA in Documentary and Photojournalism in 2006 in London and many of my fellow classmates mainly shoot film. Sure, for deadline editorial jobs they all have 5Ds, but many shoot with Mamiya 6x6s, 6x7s, Hasselblads, Holgas and canon film cameras. Lots of cool camera formats will never have a digital equivalent. The screen on digitals also throws everyone for a loop. Even if you turn it off, you invariably end up sneaking a peek and you are losing concentration in a way that was never the case with film.
What I have found harder to shoot with my project is that you are specifically shooting the “ordinary”. Kids having a good time, without being a pain in the arse to everyone. I’m enjoying the challenge of trying to make it work, and to hopefully blow away a few stereotypes.
The young guys I photographed the other day work on an oil rig, 2 weeks work, 2 weeks off. But they said when they are having a few beers and playing hacky sack during the week people think they’re “dole bludgers”
Davin; you should see the looks of confusion on the kids faces when I pull out the Holga after shooting with the D300! They look even more confused when they see a roll of 120 film :-)
For the record, I had no intent to start another discussion of film v digi … I am very, very sorry ;-))
As well you should be, sir! The idea!
BBURNophotographers:
“The whole past is the procession of the present.”
Thomas Carlyle (1795-1881) British historian and essayist.
We will be History, like the film,like the digital cameras,
like your M2, Leicas,Holgas…
but for now…
WE NEED TO drink a cold beer and listen to some music…
and you photopeople…you can shoot whatever you NEED to shoot !!!
P.S Blame Mr.Hyde for my posting :)))
Civi… No beer for me today, have to settle for a cuppa instead. Here’s some music though til Panos arrives :-)
Suzanne Vega
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JIu_ptKHcI
Howlin’ Wolf
Two more;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoGspLF1-uY
ROSSY,
you are involved with young people and I have the feeling that their “spirits”
give you much energy… IMO :)))
hi,hi…
Let’s dance everybody…and breathe
P.S I had a funny dream tonight… very funny…
In the morning, I tried to put the broken pieces together…
I was overwhelmed …
Is that how you ALL feel when you
are editing your essays??? hmmmm….
Civi;
There’s been a few pretty tough personal times this year for me and to be perfectly honest, going out to shoot the clubs has often proved to be just the tonic needed…
A few times I’ve had to force myself to go out and returned at about 4am, over the moon happy, just due to the acceptance and warmth of the kids. The restorative power of youth I suppose…
Editing? I go through stages of liking work, and then a few days later hating everything, and a few days later back on a level equilibrium. I try not to look too much at the work when it’s too fresh, I tend to be too rash in my throw-outs. Mind you I’ve just looked back at some of the project work recects and said “How the hell did I miss that one?” :-)
and ROSSY wrote:
“The restorative power of youth I suppose…”
No editing needed…:)))
VIVA !!!
Ross: Jim is right that everything has shifted to digital but film will be around a while yet. There isn’t a digital Fuji 6×17 for Koudelka. . .
Davin; how are things going for you over there?
civilian..
it’s like drooling over a series of flashbacks, vague memories and possible realities for me :o)
want n need..
we all know whether we need or only want photography in our lives .. i’m fascinated by what brings people to photography .. especially those who start young and continue to the exclusion of all else ..
my favorite students are those that cannot see anything else.. see that there is nothing more interesting.. and wonder why on earth everybody is not absolutely besotted as they are.
with those kind of students it is more of a guiding process than teaching.. because they teach themselves.. and with just the slightest hint of guidance they dissappear only to reappear with just what you hoped of them and more..
students who go away and initiate things are tremendously exciting.
i was lucky enough to have a few students like that last year.. one, bjarte, pops up here every so often, another, alex, david AH was kind enough to view the work off and the last, jan, is visiting my little family here in bergen in september..
they are definatly the needing kind.. and i hope they never go hungry for the fact :o)
CASSETTE TAPES KILLED VYNAL
no.. no..
CD’S KILLED VYNAL>>
actually, hang on.. it was
MP3’S THAT KILLED VYNAL..
jeeeez.. i mean firefox doesn’t even have vynal in it’s spell checker..
film is history only in the commercial sense..
as long as some people enjoy printing and developing.. understanding everything that photography has to offer.. there will be film..
i wished my last collage had darkrooms.. we used a little community one a couple of times and it barely satisfied the urge of some students to learn about it..
tom – how very dare you bring this up :o)
Again … my most sincere apologies. BTW, vinyl has made a huge comeback here for audiophiles. How ’bout some Blue Haze from Miles? Quality lasts.
crackle…click…crackle…click…crackle…click…crackle…click…
playing when lights are low right NOW.. it’s making tor capa sing..
hey tom.. just checking your site and it’s great.. must have been a long while since i looked..
love the genesis of burn pages
http://tomhyde.viewbook.com/genesis_of_burn_magazine?p=1#/1/
antons TG’s head and the light fitting.. funny as fuXk, eh anton :ø)
Tom; Number 10 in your 1st portfolio is absolutely kick-arse!
http://tomhyde.viewbook.com/genesis_of_burn_magazine?p=1#/1/
THANK you Tom Hyde for the insight
thank you Davidb for the link
Crackle…click…
P.S I see the Adams where are the Evas for the Genesis …oime…
they all look haunted :))) hmmmm…:)))
Yes, well, of course the light fixture is completely symbolic of Anton’s great ideas for Burn … ahem, yes of course it is …
Ross, I’ve spent as much of this amazing Northwest U.S. summer we’ve had in the water as possible, above and below. I am gaining even more appreciation for Parke and Autio’s Seventh Wave … funny how my earliest work in the water produced the majority of the best photos and the longer I stay on it, the faster the percentage drops, like a stone to the bottom. This is the story of my unfinished life … not sure why … perhaps the magic fades along with the newness and mystery of it. But I haven’t stopped. Other projects around the farm remain unfinished … actually, having even a few acres of land means that nothing is ever finished and things pile up faster than you can move from one project to the next. And it can make it a bit difficult to photograph people when you live in the middle of nowhere. Trying not to be a hermit :)) I know I would be without my camera. Balance is a bugger. Hmmm, rambling, how did I get here? Same as it ever was.
tom.. i can empathize, although i live atop a mountain..
it’s great.. sunny days i can see for miles from the balcony.. rainy days i sit inside the clouds..
the temptation is to wander the hiking trails all day and see very few people..
bergen is only 20 mins down on the bus and right now i’m dying to get there.. want to photograph tourists.. cruise ships are arriving daily and bringing lots of filth .. up to 8000 people getting off and wanting to do the same thing.. eat at the fish market.. take the exact same photos they have on the postcards they are sending home.. leave their rubbish in the same overflowing bins.. fight for the same antler skulls and reindeer skins at the over saturated harbor market.. drink till drunk and then vroooom.. back to the safely and reassurance of their floating, all inclusive hotel.
the state of the harbor of an evening when they leave is a shame..
maternity leave for a few more weeks makes it difficult.. i’m becoming a hermit who spends most of the day playing with building bricks and toy cars..
a temptingly luxurious life to settle into..
David (Bowen That is)
I’m hearing you. We have those floating affluent slums pulling in down hear as well.
In the summer they wake me up win the Bing, Bong, Bung… followed by some banal message. Shortly after that there will be a group ( what is the collective noun for affluent american retirees with white shoes ) out the front of my place and before I can even get out of bed I’ll here “Maud, can ya see that… look sea kayaks hanging from that verandah, god that’s neat”.
and I dream of winter….
Tom; “funny how my earliest work in the water produced the majority of the best photos”
Sometimes I think the less you know about a particular way or method of shooting the better things turn out. I think I have a tendency to overthink sometimes instead of going with the flow.
We’re right near the end of winter here in NZ, a few very early spring blossoms and daffodils in the paddock. I’m looking forward to summer because I’ll be able to pursue my project at high speed, because it’ll be warm, sunny (hopefully!) and school will be out for the summer.
I’ve spent the last few weeks devising ways to shoot in the surf. Not surfing, just the kids having fun splashing about. Summer revolves around the sea and waterholes here too!! A common worldwide theme I suppose!
I know what you mean about balance. I’m fortunate to have a few acres too and there’s always something to do. And being country bred it brasses you off if you don’t get the outside work done.
When I get fed up with writing articles I go out for a walk around the property; see what birds are flitting around, how the fruit trees are growing, and go give an apple to each of my 3 old Jersey cows! The oldest around 26!
Cheers
Ross: much better thank you! I find if I don’t compare Bucharest to other European cities I don’t get so bent out of shape. It would be great though if I could meet a Romanian woman and marry her. So many of the women are wearing wonderful sun dresses thee days.
Davin; That’s good, I’m pleased to hear that.
Tom; Just picked up a mint Agfa Isoly to use in conjunction with the Holga. Just to complicate my choices :-)
JIM…
film might be “history” for day to day working photographers, but i doubt the supply of film we go away anytime soon….i am shooting film for my family project and building a darkroom now as well…of course, i must admit that the darkroom is to be used very specifically for some hand made collectors books i am doing and film on the family project is largely a sentimental choice…still, the large prints i make from the medium format film cannot be duplicated in overall depth of tonality with digital…particularly black & white…but, yes, for all practical purposes, film is in the past…
cheers, david
DAVID
Did you receive my emails with my book text attached? Don’t want to keep bugging you but would love to move towards getting the Blurb book completed so I can present it to Melissa Harris at Aperture. We’ll also want to talk about what date would work for us to meet with her in NY. I’m getting quite excited!
Will try to call you either today or tomorrow. Any time that’s best for you?
Patricia
How can my present be the past?
Though this weekend for the job shot !!something like 1,500 digital images. And 200 on film. But just because it is easier (and fun, wow! look at that one, let me change it up a bit, wow! neat) to get a whole lot of pretty interesting images digitally doesn’t mean I – or the person paying – will prefer any of them to the ones on film.
p.s. Jim
I think the 50 rolls from the dark light of this nothing go into the soup today..your lens has to be 15 of them or so..can’t wait to see the results..thanks again..
David, I’m with you. I still shoot film for personal stuff. I’ve used these Leicas for so many years that I think my hands actually changed shape to fit around them. :) But film with become more and more niche and more and more expensive, so digital is the new reality.
Davin wrote,
“There isn’t a digital Fuji 6×17 for Koudelka. . .”
http://www.roundshot.ch/xml_1/internet/de/application/d438/d925/f934.cfm
matthew
yep – thats the way of it :o)
i am in awe of their size, i have to say.. (the ships that is, not the tourists)
over here, where the little wooden houses rise only 2 floors, the whole city looks like a childs play mat when 2 or 3 of the larger vessels dock..
tasmania looks interesting.. some lovely work on your site..
d
mtomalty
good grief.. what a beast.
it’s not the pixels, it what you do with them that counts..
erm..
Horses and buggies will become more and more niche and more and more expensive, so automobiles are the new reality.
“good grief.. what a beast.”
I agree.
Just because you can; doesn’t mean you should !
Jesus! What a camera! But “D3”? They couldn’t think of anything else? ;^}
300! Yes!
One guy can build buggies by hand in his garage with hand tools. You’ve got to have a sophisticated line to produce 35mm film. Once the sinking production tipping point is reached, it’s all over. :)
I want to do what Duckrabbit (above) does. That’s my plan. But I want to bring in more motion capture. In fact, I want to make the transition to DSLR hd movie capture. But I don’t even have such a camera. But that’s my PLAN.
In fact, my plan is to “embed” myself in south London. I’m not interested in traveling at the moment and not for quite a while, in fact. I’ve done enough of that. I want to learn my patch here in south London. I want to seek out it’s stories. It’s characters. It’s enigmas. The lot. I want to make short films of just a few minutes each on the stories I find. And I’ve begun my research. My youngest starts school and so it’s time again for Paulyman to make work. To make films.
Ever since my wife and I started our wee family, my plans have consistently disintegrated. I have not managed to stay the course on some interesting ideas and projects for the last 7 years. This frustrates me enormously. But come September I hope to be fully back on track of seeking out both paid assignments and my own little stories.
I hope to mix stills, audio and video in my south London stories. I hope to have a regular blog that will chart my progress and seek opinion. Once I’ve gathered in some finished pieces, I’ll seek some sponsorship.
The plan’s a good one. But given my record over the last several years, I’m worried that it’ll all fall apart. I’m determined but something always interrupted before. Hoping this time to handle familial complexities more efficiently.
Since I’ve not been working full time for some time, I need to find a way to get some new gear. Initially, I may have to beg, steal or borrow. Or hire. But hiring is dead money. Two flash guns are down. My wide zoom is rattling. My D200 needs a serious overhaul. And I need to find a decent audio field recorder.
I’m utterly determined to stay the course this time after so many years of misfiring.
I have, however, managed to complete 4 big projects started before I became a father and I will roll these out throughout this year and next.
One issue that has haunted me since taking a sabbatical from professional shooting to be a full-time carer, is my rattled self confidence. This is perhaps the biggest reason my failed projects have crashed. I’m a confident father and I’m good with kids but with regard to getting back in the frey of paid and self assignment photography and filmmaking, I’m more than a little wary. And I really need to get past that. Just the thought of having to build up my contacts and establish a few regulars and getting money moving, is rather frightening to me sometimes.
Anyone else in a similar position out there?
The thing that is really beginning to motivate me right now is the need to show my sons that a creative person can support themselves doing what they love to do. To this end I MUST succeed.
Wish me luck. The game’s about to re-commence.
Paul Treacy
http://photohumourist.com
good luck with all of this paul. it’s not easy.
Akaky
August 19, 2009 at 4:14 pm
300! Yes!
Akaky yes… loved that movie too..
made me proud..:)))))))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gfZnWVoqZ8
My grandma was from Sparta…( although my grandpa was “gay”…)))))))\
mixed up feelings , i know…
but still.. proude..
( although pride is a Sin according to Buddhism …go figure..:))))))))
Panos,
I can’t lie, guy: I HATED that movie. I wrote a review of it that scorched the earwax of everyone within hearing range.
Hey Panos;
Have you ever seen the movie/doco “Searching for the Wrong-Eyed Jesus”? I love it and thought it may appeal to you too?
A couple of scenes;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_zVtsKSNOc
Akaky..
ok then..:)
then im wrong..
sorry..:(
One more
FOUND IT! WOOHOO! I thought this sucker was lost on the hard drive.
300: The thing of it is, of course, that it is almost always a mistake for me to go see a film based on a historical event. Before I got into the civil service, I planned to teach history to that class of mental ruminants known as the American teenager, for reasons I am pretty sure wouldn’t stand any prolonged examination if I looked at them now. I was young and idealistic then, as well as broke and foolish, and becoming a history teacher seemed an ideal way of combining my love of history, my otherwise useless degree in the subject, and my overwhelming need for gainful employment. I still love the subject, but
my love of the subject, however, does come with this one drawback: historically based films tend to annoy me no end. It’s not that I have anything against the genre per se; I simply find that no matter how much I want to suspend my disbelief I can’t help noticing what the producers got wrong. Even such an innocuous film as the 1940 version of Pride and Prejudice annoys me when I watch it. There’s nothing wrong with the film, of course; with a screenplay by Aldous Huxley and starring Greer Garson and Laurence Olivier, this version of Jane Austen’s classic is one of the best cinematic adaptations of a great work of literature ever made. What annoys me is that while the novel is set at some unnamed point in the 1790’s and early 1800’s, the women in this adaptation are wearing clothing that wouldn’t be in style for another thirty or forty years. Pointing out this sort of thing tends to mark one as insufferably pedantic at best and as an unspeakable bore at worst, so I usually try to go to such films by myself, the better to gloat over the stupidity of the producers, who spent all of that money getting the facts wrong when they could have gotten the facts right and still have an excellent film.
This leads, invariably, I think, to a discussion of 300, the new multimillion-dollar cartoon about the Spartan stand against the Persians at Thermopylae. This film is based on a graphic novel, a form of publication people my age still call comic books because calling them comic books annoys teenagers no end, and let’s face it, anything that can annoy a teenager no end can’t be all bad. The trouble is that the comic book and its sensibility, if you want to call them that, damage this film from start to finish. There are so many problems with this flick that the mind boggles at where to start, so let’s start with the basics: the script bites the big one.
At this point in my movie going career, I know the drill when it comes to historical epics: the dialogue is always stilted, stiff, and altogether dopey, and does not, in any way, shape, or form, resemble human speech as such speech is known to occur in all human societies at all periods since the Paleolithic Age. The further back in history you go, the worse this problem gets. The 1964 movie version of this battle, The 300 Spartans, starring Richard Egan and a host of other people whose names escape me at the moment, has the same problem, although it has one great line that somehow managed to get into the script: “the gods give us beautiful girls to marry, and then they turn them into wives.” This sort of heavy wooden dialogue is simply part of the genre package. Ten-ton dialogue is especially prevalent in almost any movie based on the Bible. In The Ten Commandments, for example, Charlton Heston and Yul Brynner could have raised a couple of pyramids using the words in the script alone, and I would be willing to bet good money that the reason Heston and Brynner got those roles is that they were the only two actors in Hollywood who could say those lines and one, make them sound even vaguely credible, and two, not collapse in hysterical fits of laughter on a regular basis while trying to say them.
Most people, however, other than the usual suspects, do not speak as if they thought the FBI had a bug in the room and they didn’t want get caught saying something incriminating. Even people in 480 BC didn’t talk that way. 300’s dialogue problem occurs because no one should be saying this stuff out loud in the first place; you should be reading it in a balloon over the character’s head, and now, freed from the space limitations of the printed page, you can listen to more of it than you really want to. The dialogue feels like someone’s pumped it full of steroids and couldn’t care less if the actors can’t pass the drug test. The actors aren’t really delivering their lines, they’re bloviating on camera, and their inexperience shows; only politicians can really bloviate well, and why would you spend ten bucks to see actors bloviate badly on a movie screen when you can, in the comfort of your own home, watch Congress bloviate for free on C-Span?
The battle scenes are suitably gory, as befits a war film, but even here, where the film should be on solid footing, the whoppers accumulate like crabgrass. If the producers of 300 had taken the trouble to consult a book about Sparta other than the comic book they based the film on, they would have quickly learned that the Spartans, like the Prussians, were not a country with an army; they were an army with a country. The Spartans were, without a doubt, the premier soldiers of ancient Greece, the individual Spartan soldier being the final and finest product of a militaristic society that brutally trained men from childhood to withstand any hardship an enemy power could throw at them. War and the preparations for war were the central focus of all Spartan society, subsuming every other field of intellecual, artistic, or commercial endeavor. Combat provided the Spartan state and the individual Spartan soldier with the very reason for their existence. In short, unlike the cinematic Spartans of 300, the real Spartans were probably the last group of men in ancient Greece to show up for a major battle wearing only their underwear.
Yet, in the movies, as with the Almighty, all things are possible, and in 300, the Spartans fight while bare-chested and wearing leather underwear (I am assuming that it’s leather and not very dirty Fruit of the Looms). The producers let the cinematic Spartans keep their shields, swords, spears, and greaves; I suppose they did not want to strain the audience’s credulity too much, although I should point out that there were no elephants at Thermopylae, no cavalry charge at Thermopylae, and no armored rhinoceros at Thermopylae, either (I thought the rhino was pretty cool, though). If Xerxes really wanted to bring along an elephant or a rhinoceros he could have found someone to get him a pair, I guess; he was the king, after all, and as Mel Brooks says, it’s good to be king; but he didn’t. Neither did he order a cavalry charge; if had done something that stupid Herodotus would have mentioned it in his history of the war. No, Thermopylae was a straight up infantry battle that the Persians won because they found a way around the Spartan position; a man named Ephialtes told the Persians about the mountain track that led around the position, ratting his fellow Greeks out for money. Herodotus does not mention if this two-bit stool pigeon looked, as 300 would have it, like a Hellenic version of Gollum.
As for the political intriguing in Sparta, the less said the better. Much as I like watching a good-looking woman eviscerate a crooked politician with a sword, this scene poses two immediate problems. First, why doesn’t this scheming pol have his money at home in the freezer like any good anti-war politician should, instead of carrying his boodle around in his wallet, and second, the Persians paid the man off in gold. The man was a Spartan. Where was he going to spend the money? The Spartans used iron bars tempered in vinegar for currency; they wanted to make sure no one spent a lot of time trying to get rich when they should be out training to fight someone. The Spartans had little use for commerce in general and none at all for luxury goods. They were a plainspoken, simple, agrarian society and the Spartans intended to stay that way.
As for the Persians in 300, well, if I were an Iranian government official looking at this film, I wouldn’t be happy, either. Iranians regard this period, from the rise of Cyrus the Great to the toppling of the ancient monarchy by Alexander, as one of the greatest eras in their long national history, and watching Hollywood turn your culture into prolonged camp cannot be that easy to stomach. I mean, really, is it just me or does Xerxes and his travelling freak show look remarkably like they’re trying to find their way to San Francisco’s annual Gay Pride parade? The producers make Xerxes look like an epicene twit who’d have a monumental hissy fit if those nasty Spartans broke just one of his fingernails. And there were entirely too many shots, I thought, of bare-chested Spartans standing around looking buff in their leather briefs. Gay erotica is all very well and good if you like that sort of thing, but 300 is, ostensibly, a war movie, even a tragedy, and not, as the producers seem to believe, a celebration of beefcake.
And I suppose in these politically correct times I should point out that, for all their talk of freedom, the Spartans weren’t exactly the most inclusively democratic people who ever lived, but that is anachronism in its purest form, and I had a history professor who warned all his students that engaging in anachronism, speculation, and the genetic fallacy were historical sins you should avoid at all costs. So, I will take his advice and skip the usual rant about the gross inequities of Spartan society, and just say that if you really want to know what happened read Herodotus’ The Histories. There is a great film in the epic Greek stand against the Persians in the mountain pass of Thermopylae. 300, unfortunately, is not it; in fact, 300 barely qualifies as the cartoon version.
Admin….!!!
please erase Akaky’s last statement…
kiddin’…………
loves it:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp-oDAxx8So
The Ghost Of Tom Joad w/Tom Morello 2008
Wow… how it is that a well educated and (seemingly) thoughtful fellow who also happens to be smart enough to be humorous (in an adult fashion) on a regular basis can be so enamored of a mindless dipshit, a willfully ignorant religious fanatic, an anti-intellectual mental deficient like Sarah Palin escapes me. But hey, to each his own, right? ;^}
Genuinely enjoyed the review Akaky!
Hey Panos! As I mentioned on that other website… I’m about to become a proud owner of an iPhone. Will be needing some assistance, I expect. Are you there for me?
Michael…:)
two years almost, ago…
when i got one i lost my mind…
two years later my mind is still lost…
the “iphone” took it away…. stole it from me…:)
of course im here and there for u…:)
Oh good! Like my mind wasn’t “gone” enough already! Heh-heh…
it was the same year … the same magical year that i was introduced to an iPhone and an M8…
that was it……
i lost it…….!:(
I just wish I got the same deal you did!
If memory serves… you and your buddy got the thing for next to nothing?
What’s up with that?
On wide angle now (PBS) – Eyes of the Storm, a doc about the situation after the storm floods in Burma
panos / akaky …….. stop motion spoof of 300 …….
AKAKY,
you are a “true” BURNIAN and I believe that you are a “true” Greek too.
Akaky, Tom Hyde,Michael k,Eva,Panos,JohnG, AndrewB…and so many other BURNIANS …have shown us that
there are no boarders, no limits in what we call … Respect …
Thank yo all!!!
Mr.P TREACY,
You will succeed:
“The thing that is really beginning to motivate me right now is the need to show my sons that a creative person can support themselves doing what they love to do…”
ANTON,
Did I say I love you ,Lately???
MR. D.A. HARVEY,
Thank you again!!!
BURNIANS,
I have no time BUT I want to say To all of you:
Thank you.
P.S Mr.Davin can I be your bestman or bestwoman …
I see a Romanian lady on the forecast :)))
MRS. KATHLEEN FONSECA,
Where are you street fighter???
My Gracie has magnetic walls and DavidB is on paternity leave …
lost somewhere in the woods carrying a “precious load”…
WHAT NOT TO LOVE !!!
Shall I start singing ???
HAPPY BIRTHDAY BURN !!! Almost 9 months BURN BABY !!! BABY BURN !!!
Cats are very similiar to women……….
PATRICIA…
i think i have pointed out here that email for me these days is truly hit or miss….i am overwhelmed by email…i did not see your emails…once emails go beyond the first page for me , they are lost unless i know to search for something….sorry…i will search for yours now and hope to speak with you on the phone as well…i have not forgotten you…august is pretty much a dead month for business, but the next two months with be very busy indeed, and i have you as a top priority….
cheers, david
SO HEY Uncle did you get to my edit?
MICHAEL K.,
“Wow… how it is that a well educated and (seemingly) thoughtful fellow who also happens to be smart enough to be humorous (in an adult fashion) on a regular basis can be so enamored of a mindless dipshit, a willfully ignorant religious fanatic, an anti-intellectual mental deficient like Sarah Palin…”
She has a nice ass. Yes, I am that shallow.
I once spent 2 of the wasted years of my life with a girl that had a nice ass! Arteries that would have brought blood to her brain were bypassed at her butt!
GLENN…
no mate i have not done your edit….but, you are in the next group to be edited…anton and i try to edit about 10 stories at a time…get them all done at once and lined up to publish…makes our whole work flow so much easier…there are exceptions to this and we will plug in something new that requires little production time at the last minute…but, i want to be able to have the time to give your work a very close look…my overall impression is as i have told you..very positive…and representative of a project where the photographer really cares about the issue…i will let you know soonest when i have done an edit, then get your endorsement, and we can go back and forth a bit to the point where we are both pleased…make sense??
cheers, david
DAVID
Thanks for responding. I realize your life is busy-busy-busy making it impossible for you to read or respond to the hundreds of emails you receive each day. I just tried to reach you by phone but your voicemail box is full. So can you just call me whenever you have a few minutes?
Thanks for your assurance that we’ll be moving forward with my project in the autumn. The final edition of my Blurb book should be in my hands by the second week in September at the latest. And maybe earlier. I’m available to come to NY anytime after that. We can certainly plan for our meeting at Aperture to coincide with whenever you’ll already be in Brooklyn.
Looking forward to hearing from you…
Patricia
@jason houge,
“It’s interesting to know what they know – They seem to be kept in the dark about everything – perhaps all of the people are treated as though they are in the military and on a need to know basis… very sad.”
funny you say that… dont you think propaganda happens in the US too?
dont you think propaganda happens in the US too?
———————————————–
That’s not what Jason wrote.
herve,
this was not meant to attack jason’s sensitivity to other cultures…
this is meant for me to sigh and whine. we here are also cloistered from what we need to see. the more borders we cross, the more we know the world and its people are the same, with the same needs and wants.
unfortunately, some of our countrymen have never felt or seen other people’s sentiments beyond our shores closing their minds to the possibility of our country hurting others when we think we are just trying to help.
whine whine
sigh sigh
g ;)
Paul, I’m in a similar position and it’s absolutely terrifying. I was hoping that if I pretend otherwise nobody else would notice. Have you thought of leasing equipment? I think you can buy stuff at the end for a nominal fee. Plus if you’re really stuffed for a flash I could lend you an SB28 for a few months.
Glen I’m guessing you were just unlucky I know a girl with all the brains in the world and a lovely bum.
we here are also cloistered from what we need to see.
—————————————-
Here?!?!?
See what you did, Gracie. Jason was merely commenting on the country the photo was featured from, so why mention USA? A bit centric, no?
Harry, I appreciate that enormously. I’ll have Fixation pop on a new hotshoe connection on my trusty SB28 and I should be good to go. My beloved SB600 seems to have given up the ghost. That’ll need replacing.
The new D300s is out of my range at the moment but my need to learn hd video shooting may well be satisfied by the substantially less expensive D90 with external audio. I’ll figure something out.
It is scary but I’m tremendously excited. I’ve gathered some maturity these last few years and a burning desire to make some money. Bring it on. It’s time to show the youngsters that the old-timers can still shake things up.
Did I really just say that? I’m only 40!
By the way, my wife has some serious brains. She’s the smartest person I know. And she has a gorgeous bum.
Paul; “Did I really just say that? I’m only 40!”
Ah yes, but with age comes experience!
Cheers
hi herve,
so why can i not mention the US? i am here. arent my reactions to things or to photos a product of my own experiences? or should i just think and not say anything… note that this i wrote on stray cat… not on the photo itself because i wanted to comment on the photo and the writing itself but i will do that soon after i mull it over…
thanks though for noticing my post.
(still i am – sigh sighing, whine whining)
Ross, thanks for your email. That was a good article too, by the way.
You have given me much to think about.
Cheers.
DAH, I submitted an image last evening. Mentioning only because previously there were technical issues.
Gracie, with all due respect, I give you much more credit than that. This was simply not a thought (as you wrote it), but an old PC tirade.
I will leave you the last word, but kindly answer this question: can you give me instances of north Korean citizens, inside NK of course, publicly decrying their governemnet propaganda , as you did here, in total impunity?
Gracie,
I think you really don’t have a clue about the US or North Korea. And you live in the US. Its remarkable that anyone would even try in an remote way to compare the US and North Korea. How can you be so clueless? Next time you criticize Barack Obama, his predecessor or his successor, remember that the same would land you in a hard labor camp for 15 years, and you would be dead within 2 either from overwork, murder or torture. That’s even if they bothered to even give you a “trial” and didn’t just execute you on the spot. Yes, you have propaganda in the US, but you have a variety of propaganda, and you can choose which propaganda to listen to. In North Korea there is one source, and one source only. And propaganda does not equal propaganda, not in frequency, intensity, message or variety of message. What you wrote is so beyond ludicrous, its just absurd.
@herve,
i am so sorry if i offended you. i will answer your question shortly but dinner (to be prepared) awaits.
thanks also for giving me chance for last say.
shortly..
FOCUS BURNIANS…cause it seems that your postings are coming down to the same point:
There is everywhere propaganda…IMHO
GRACIE = 100% correct
“we here are also cloistered from what we need to see.”
HERVE = 100% correct
“Jason was merely commenting on the country the photo was featured from…”
RAFAL = 100%
“Yes, you have propaganda in the US, but you have a variety of propaganda, and you can choose which propaganda to listen to. In North Korea there is one source, and one source only…”…you would be dead within 2 either from overwork, murder or torture.”
Therefore, on planet earth..
propaganda =”Literally translated from the Latin gerundive as “things that must be disseminated”, in some cultures the term is neutral or even positive, while in others the term has acquired a strong negative connotation. The connotations of the term “propaganda” can also VARY over time.”
You are ALL correct …even Akaky :)))
I suggest to have a glass of red wine and start again :)))
P.S I thought we were talking about gorgeous BUMS tonight…hmmm
@Rafal,
In all your strong words, I find as I reread what I said and what you said it looks like you agreed with me. There is then propaganda here and that is just what I said or implied. But yes, to a different degree a much much different degree. And you are right, I am lucky that I am able to keep my head on my body despite of what I said and this democracy allows it. I hope I can say I am about as clueless as the next person. If I were such then I would not mention such a thing existing in the US.
@ Herve, unfortunately if one is fed only apples and seen only apples, one would not be able to know how an orange tastes. I do not know much about how it is in North Korea but the photo-up implies per its transcript that the woman in so much was misinformed to say the least. Therefore, I cannot fault the North Koreans in this instance to feel what they feel against the Americans if this is all they know. We cannot feel sad for them or feel pity.
Good! I am glad I got you guys to say strong stuff because what we need are people standing up for themselves and not just take what we all are being fed. Here you can talk, write, when in other places of the world they are afraid to speak. When they do, no one sheds a tear or even notices you are now missing.
BURN MUSE,
you can walk the walk and talk the talk
P.S May I ask…what did you have for dinner???
No need for immediate reply
LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiOv37e1a7Q&feature=related
fuck North Korea……….
( sorry i meant to say Fuck JAY-Z )
or
when Brooklyn attacks Manhattan…..
… sorry i meant Queens attacks Manhattan…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-22ic_YGx4&feature=related
again , fuck Jay-Z
Jay-Z – Jigga What, Jigga Who
Paul;
No worries. I just thought it may be a way of getting a few dollars in with the minimum of expense and outlay. All the best.
Cheers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aWeZosFoU0&feature=channel
50 Cent – Many Men (Wish Death):
3 a.m.: Explicit
I agree with Panos’ sentiments to North Korea. 1000%
Gracie,
I think your basic error is calling what they have in North Korea and what you have in the USA by the same name, an in effect making the two equal. There is nothing similar between American propaganda and North Korean brainwashing. Absolutely nothing. To even suggest it is a travesty.
A very good documentary that follows two families as the kids prepare to take part in the Mass Games in North Korea..http://www.astateofmind.co.uk/
DAH
am around in the morning if you are free
“There is nothing similar between American propaganda and North Korean brainwashing. Absolutely nothing. To even suggest it is a travesty.” myself, Noam Chomsky, and many others would beg to differ on that point.
and like Chomsky you would be an idiot. To deny the plainly obvious is just stupid, John. In the first place, you are free to choose your own poison, and free to sample from a variety of poisons. You are also free to have access to outside propaganda and are allowed to make up your own mind. None of this is afforded to north Koreans who have no access to anything but the official word, and can be killed for possession of outside information. Chomsky is a coward with zero credibility and a twisted agenda. When people make statements like yours that so plainly fly in the face of truth I suspect either chomskyism or simple ignorance. So, what do you know about North Korea, John, sitting comfortably in the US making lazy, uniformed comments on the internet?
one more thing, in the US you are free to tune out all the propaganda. In North Korea yoou would be forced to worship the government, be it through the personality cult of the Kims and events like the mass games which are basically slave labor for the glorification of a murderous regime that has hundreds of thousands of its own citizens locked away in hard labor camps because they are in some way a political threat to Kim and his evil clique. Chomsky would probably see nothing wrong with that, I hope you are more human than he is.
“There is nothing similar between American brainwashing and North Korean propaganda . Absolutely nothing.,,,,,,,,,,except Rafal being one of the brainwashed.
Anyone who dismisses Chomky’s sociopolitical analysis as idiotic is either braindead or part of the propaganda machine.
i meant Chomsky of course… :)
Yes Imants, North Korea and the US are so comparable. I can see you are on the ball.
gotta love people who dont have a clue about north korea playing the role of north korean experts.
So Rafal you have decided to become the resident expert on North Korea on this forum. You seem to be so right wing that you have taken up hovering in circles over North Korea, be careful they might blast you out of the sky
But don’t worry the armada of white duck boats will save you
No, I didnt decide to become any expert, Imants. Its unfortunate to have a neighbor like North Korea. Am I right wing? Well, for 8 years I have lived within artillery and scud missile range of a country that makes weekly war threats against the country I am living in. I have followed inter-Korean news daily, and I get my news from both left and right wing domestic media as well as international media. I have a family here, have invested my future in Korea and so for me, unlike you, this is much more than just another topic to spout your boring pseudo-intellectual hot air. Next you will move on to another topic. What is your level of exposure to North Korea and NK news?
Too much anger in your posts to keep continue with a worth while discussion, I’ll leave you to wallow in your misery
Rafal…
No one here made the tiniest positive remark about the North Korean regime.
You on the other hand jumped the gun exhibiting the textbook first generation American mentality by bashing anyone who criticizes the US in any form.
Chomsky (just like Zinn) is by far more human (and even an America patriot) than most of the politicians who’ve roamed Washington in the past 50 years. Attaching him, his work and anyone who sees value in both was plain stupid on your part.
ALL….
i have not had the opportunity to work in North Korea, but if they would allow me to do so, i would be there in a heartbeat…just as i jumped at the chance to work in North Vietnam before positive U.S. relations, Libya when declared a “terrorist” state, East Germany before the Wall came down, Chile under Pinochet and of course Cuba…having been “detained” at various times in all of those places and becoming very very alone in small airless rooms and my freedom at the mercy of a particular guard or set of guards, i certainly did not see much difference between the “right” secret police who grabbed me in Santiago and the “left” secret police who held me in Hanoi…a totalitarian regime is a totalitarian regime…propaganda is of course everywhere…enforcement of the dissemination and propagation of that propaganda varies with the power of the regime and perhaps their sense of “isolation”…freedom of speech seems to be the first thing to go in these regimes, yet the leaders always feel as if they are all alone and fighting for their freedom…
i looked closely into the warm grandfatherly eyes of NVA General Giap who defeated both the French and the Americans in Vietnam and was Ho Chi Minh’s closest friend and warrior….i looked very very closely into the warm grandfatherly eyes of General Augusto Pinochet in Chile….same with Mohammar Kadafi and Fidel (respectful friends and the most charismatic of all)…i had time to study each of these men beyond seeing them on tv or read their interviews or their espoused propaganda…to the man, charming beyond all belief….dedicated beyond all belief…to the man, feeling they were fighting for “their people”…deep down sense of purpose….righteous and sense of duty…all with x amount of blood on their hands….all with one clear “enemy” (the U.S.) who they were also desperately trying to be friends with, had previously been friends with…and all of them at least allowing my presence in their country albeit closely monitored….i guess the point is , that all leaders feel they have a cause….all countries have an agenda and they will do whatever it takes to further that agenda…they are able to look past the blood they have spilled and somehow see the “light”…however, no country has justified their “expansion” or “policy” more than the U.S. and their allies in recent history….
i am quite sure that Kim Jong-il is a very charming man as well….but i do not think he will let any of us come and take a close look anytime soon…he cannot afford the luxury of freedom of press and speech at this point….he will hold on to his “ideals” til death…he will always feel trapped , isolated, the underdog, and will do whatever it takes to build his “defense”….i also do not think there will be war with North Korea either unless somebody does something really stupid…
some propaganda is just that, propaganda …some propaganda is enforced law….there is a difference…no North Korean photographers seem to be sending me their essays or singles….still, i am waiting for my visa to North Korea….i want to see firsthand…..
cheers, david
THODORIS….
i have your prints….found!!!….many thanks….
cheers, david
Happy to hear that!
When you have some time please take a look at the link I sent you in the last email?
Cheers
Im not even American. Ive never even lived there. I am Polish and Canadian. And I live in Korea. But thanks for that oh so accurate assessment of me Thodoris, care to amaze me with more of your Sherlock holmes impersonations? My defending of the US comes from having grown up under communism and my inability to understand how people can attack a country that allows them the freedoms to lead a life as they would want with all the comforts and luxuries they would ever need while supporting countries that deny their own people the basic human rights and dignities.
The remarks that were made were about propaganda. You cannot separate the DPRK regime from its propaganda, it is how it stays alive, by brainwashing its own people into supporting them.
Wise words:
“some propaganda is just that, propaganda …some propaganda is enforced law….there is a difference…no North Korean photographers seem to be sending me their essays or singles….still, i am waiting for my visa to North Korea….i want to see firsthand…..”
People like Chomsky get their jollies defending people like KJI while residing comfortably in a big home in a country they seem to hate. Chomsky could stop being a hypocrite and could defect to any of the countries he seems to love so much, Cuba, DPRK, whatever. But he wont because he is a cowardly bag of hot air. back to propaganda. In the US you have a choice to listen to whatever propaganda you want, left, right, centris, Rep or Dem, whatever you want. Or none at all. None of those choices will land you in a hard labor camp for 15 years to life. The posession of a radio capable of getting South Korean broadcasts will get you executed, and your family most likely as well.
………. ahh the man still has reds sleeping under his bed.
Rafal,
Are you even hearing your own thoughts?
Who are you referring to as “… supporting countries that deny their own people the basic human rights and dignities.”?
Also, among other things, Chomsky was openly against the Vietnam War from the beginning, at a time when it could have easily cost him his job and even land him in jail. Hearing you bashing the man… You sound just as an arrogant child.
Also, one doesn’t NEED to be an American in order to exhibit the mentality I accused you of. Many neoconservatives in Cyprus would talk pretty much in the same line as well, for example.
Freedom of speech is overrated as a shield against propaganda. Surely there is a world of difference between a totalitarian state like N.K. and what goes on in the States. But in order to seek out (and have access to) balanced information one needs also education, time, energy, and of course money. Do you suppose that the majority of the Americans have those things, or that maybe they get their information about local and international news from sources like Fox?
Also, please don’t try to make your point sound more credible by association by using David’s words. We can all scroll up a bit and read the post in its entirety. He said more than the part you pasted…
And do make myself clear.
I’m not trying to change your mind. We are all products of our experiences. You are who you are and I cannot force you to change no matter what I say.
The only purpose of me posting this is for other people to read. People who might accidentally think that you know what you’re talking about, especially regarding Chomsky.
thodoris,
you hit the head on the nail. big example: healthcare tort reform issue which has had so many facets. i am involved now in sponsoring/starting a debate that is sponsored by opposite views in 3 parts just to get information out. not that i think this can make a difference in the decision making of the politicians in my republican state but i feel there is the need to inform the public. i dont want good aspects of the bill to be diluted by the fact that obama won (people still think emotionally that way) or have the bad aspects of the bill be pushed into law because it is obama who is pushing it. even for me, i dont know where to look for good balanced information. and i am not the average, clueless, joe schmoe. it is such a big effort. i have my own thoughts since i shall bear the brunt of the impact of this bill being a part of the healthcare system here. but for me to disseminate such information, i am bound to myself to find accurate information.
rafal,
i never said the degrees of propaganda is the same everywhere. you were the one that pointed out my basic error of saying such when i never said it was the same. misinformation is wrong and it empowers the already very powerful people pushing for their own agenda. though there is a drastic difference when there are physical consequences. misinformation at a time like this though can affect my children’s children’s children and then physical consequences to them. degrees and extent might be different, i would be foolish to say that the consequences are the same as we perceive it in different countries.
like you, i have had close family members be at risk for detention, some detained, some summarily executed for what they believed in. like you, i feel strongly about things and should say so much more and should do so much more. but unlike you, i will not post specifics on the internet and unlike you, i will not call you names.
THODORIS…
surely many Americans are among the most uninformed folks on the planet…oftentimes just plain embarrassing i must say considering what they should/could know…one must, as you say, make an effort to get past a “FOX” interpretation of the world…so, well rounded information is totally available, but it takes a desire to go get it…to find out as much as possible about any given issue…it is this desire for a true world vision that is lacking, not the preponderance of quality information…as you so correctly point out, we are all products of our experiences, and few minds are ever changed based on that experience…however, even the largely uninformed American citizens do eventually come to their senses on various issues often because of the free press, but it just seems to take forever and often way too late to save a particular policy decision from having gone all wrong….democracy is by its very nature unwieldy…slow…..full of idiosyncrasies, contradictions, corruptions , and flaws….personally, again based on my own experiences, i am going to choose the personal freedoms i have over supporting a dogmatic ideal, but i do not for a minute think that the system under which i live is not full of manipulative elements nor do i for a minute think that i must not constantly be aware of what is going on around me, and be aware to the best of my ability the points of view and the experiences of others which is part of my ongoing and incomplete education….in other words, i assume nothing…..
cheers, david
I think it’s hard to get information even when you are interested. I’m trying to find out what’s going on in Afghanistan and even though it’s in the news at the moment I can’t seem to find a voice that I trust to give me the information I want. It really really worries me.
GRACIE
Therefore, I cannot fault the North Koreans in this instance to feel what they feel against the Americans if this is all they know.
—————————–
But your comment did exactly that: find fault in americans for being cloistered and propagandized.
PS: not a last word, just: ?!?!?!? :-)
The “preponderance of good information” is shrinking exponentially. I would argue that in the U.S. it peaked sometime around Watergate before advertisers began running the show and the insidious slow capitulation of newsrooms to the edict of offend as few as possible took firm hold as the proverbial nose under the tent to the point that in many places today the state of media has become completely vacuous and entertainment centric cesspools of mindless “happy” banality selling cheap plastic crap to television crack addicted masses whose lives are virtual in every sense of the word and who don’t want to know in a country where we are all truly free to sink into bottomless pits of self indulgence mired within castles of mucho stuff eating artificial genetically engineered perfectly tasteless crap while we wonder why so many are depressed and on Prozac and don’t care about the news anymore because they either don’t want to know and it’s full of junk or for those who do care, it’s full of mindless junk catering to the oblivious who could care less about the state of the state, or their own community, much less global affairs which only helps to feed a self perpetuating downward cycle until someone finally says enough!, I’m going to publish what others won’t anymore, because the mainstream traded their balls long ago for the SUV and the 401K only to discover that their job is tenuous or gone, their SUV is a hole into which to pour money and their 401K is as shriveled as the pride they once had to only discover that by offending as few as possible to cater to the advertisers they sealed their fate because no one wants to read their vacuous home decorating tips and even the home decorators won’t advertise there anymore, and damnit no one will say damn the torpedoes I’ll publish what the hell I got into this business to publish, so in the absence others take up the dull quill, whet it to a viscously fine point … and start a blog.
Or to paraphrase, a wonderful U.S. newspaper editor I once knew came to the sad conclusion several years ago after a long successful career in the business that, “If you really want to know what it happening in the U.S., read a Canadian newspaper.”
love people who dont have a clue about north korea playing the role of north korean experts.
—————————————
Sadly so, Rafal. by the way, this whole idea that “cloistering” is something related to right wing networks (TV or otherwise) is one of the worse brainwashing.
I am still waiting for someone to show me a case of a north korean going public about being brainwashed, inside NK, as you guys so courageously do here (it can only be courageous, since we are all brainwashed, controlled, and our liberties a sinister illusion. Viva PC!)
Throwing names. Anyone interested in Chomsky better go back to the times when he and other apologists defended the Khmer rouges and Pol Pot, and to this day, refuse to admit to their mistake of doing so (after Stalin’s death camps, after Mao’s starved millions and cultural revolution, after the KR had been starting genocidal practices in provinces they ruled before taking over).
Gracie, I am afraid you were right. the Cloisters are not just a medieval site to visit up the Hudson River… :-))))
Really? ’cause I for one can’t keep up..there’s MotherJones and Utne and The Economist and The Nation and Point of View and Charlie Rose and Wide Angle and Jim Lehrer and these are just some of the ones that are handed to us out in the open, and there is a ton of info from Witness and Human Rights Watch and all these journalists risking their well being to give us information…and these are all mainstream sources…
no country has justified their “expansion” or “policy” more than the U.S. and their allies in recent history
———————————
Probably proof that they are lousy propagandists, if they can’t make a point once and for all!!!
True propagandists never have to justify anything, even the worse genocidal crimes. In thrue NIKE wisdom: they just do it! :-)
@herve,
i dont know why it becomes an ‘attack’ when all three of us are on the same side. all these strong words are not mine but i must admit i was the WD40 that got it going.
the difference here is we have a choice to be informed but are we all making that choice? this is the freedom that we now enjoy but dont lift a finger to protect… are we just content to sit back and be self-indulgent and then complain when the decisions are already made?
and that NK you are looking for might already be dead so dont hold your breath.
Erica!!! :-)))
Actually, since I travel full seasons when I do, I am using thet REAL PLAYER software to record tons of Ytube and other video clips on the laptop for times when I am somewhere, waiting for a bus, a train, or in the train, or just back in my little abode in Thailand. Absolutely everything goes, Haendel’s oratorios, Cambodian history (now and before), Russia today docus, Battle of Alesia, life of Pablo Neruda, Deleuze lectures….. Absolutely everything, hours of stuff…
Should keep me out of the bars…. (maybe!) :-)))))
are we just content to sit back and be self-indulgent and then complain when the decisions are already made?
———————
Gracie, one liners, PC soundbites and throwing names to show bona fide enlightened” knowledge don’t do, that is my only point.
I see it every week, here, in ultra-liberal SF, people posing as wonderful progressists, blahblahblah, but not thinking twice about evicting a poor soul going thru hard times, who will most likely end up on the street. Happening right now, next to me, and no one is watching Fox here, within a radius of quite a few miles…
Beautiful evening here in Bucharest with many fine women in amazing dresses, I mean really outstanding dresses! Buzzing cafes, great light. Was shooting Leica throughout. There is an energy here that I have never experienced elsewhere. It’s all about the potential of what Romania and Romanians can be. Everyone wants to be noticed. Women lock eyes with you constantly. Beautiful Art Nouveaux facades are being restored. A Porsche drives by. It’s breezy and warm and the fashion is better than what you see in Paris. And then there’s me, the only American, the only foreigner around practically, to live it all and to capture everything in images!
@herve,
“one liners, PC soundbites and throwing names to show bona fide enlightened” knowledge don’t do, that is my only point”
i am not sure you are talking about me and what i did, seriously, ive looked up most of the words youve used here each time youve posted. i am simple minded and i am trying to know more about what’s going around me and asking others to do the same. and this is my only point.
this debate which i am helping to get off the ground might help the local area. i wouldnt as much hope that it reaches san francisco but it is a start.
herve !!!
life of pablo neruda??? where do you get that?
Gracie, any subject, just write the name or something related to it on the Ytube search window, and bingo! Though it’s also fun to find stuff having typed a different, but loosely related subject. Ytube is a bit like fishing, you know you will eat fish, not always sure which type.
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCLlRgpIK_
usually, if a series, the following part shows up at the top of the “related videos” column.
this one is good (Pablo neruda):
just clicked on the links herve!!
thank you!!
his whimsical notes are pretty interesting and his love poems are HOT!!!
thanks again.
Harve,
Calling names?? Really??
Rafal started calling people idiots, and of course that was one of the reasons I stop reading your posts altogether in the first place. Having read your last one though, I would appreciate it if you could provide a link to the text you referred to about “…Khmer rouges and Pol Pot…”
Yeah come on Herve, don’t just propagandize, link please, educate us….
young tom..
(quote)
the state of media has become completely vacuous and entertainment centric cesspools of mindless “happy” banality selling cheap plastic crap to television crack addicted masses whose lives are virtual in every sense of the word and who don’t want to know in a country where we are all truly free to sink into bottomless pits of self indulgence mired within castles of mucho stuff eating artificial genetically engineered perfectly tasteless crap while we wonder why so many are depressed and on Prozac and don’t care about the news anymore because they either don’t want to know and it’s full of junk or for those who do care, it’s full of mindless junk catering to the oblivious who could care less about the state of the state, or their own community, much less global affairs which only helps to feed a self perpetuating downward cycle until someone finally says enough!,
(\quote)
it can’t be true !
……..hey the duck armada did come to Rafal’s rescue. Thodoris you may have to wait until Herve digs it up from the Life according to Ytube the Buddhist version
I am a BURN addicted masses
P.S LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
Thank you for keeping the posts “decent”…
I will be back :)))
I miss my souvlakia:(((
civi dearest,
i am right in the middle of it civi!!
ps i had chicken and bacon and clam soup and cantaloupe
we know the masses love burn
but we love you more…
(i miss katiecakes tho)
HURRICANE BILL
“North Carolina was expecting flooding and beach erosion on the Outer Banks this weekend. The National Weather Service said Bill could cause water levels to rise three to four feet (0.9 to 1.2 meters) above normal and the ocean could spill over roads there”
MR.HARVEY and all BURNIANS in the area if you need shelter … we are here…
maybe Here and There…anyways…We love stray cats and dogs …
VIVA!!!
David B. … thankfully, it’s only a partial truth … not mine … Erica’s was a good list … I miss real Feta …
MY GRACIE,
Your words are music !!!
I wish I can have what you have …one day :))) clams …how aphrodisiac
please, don’t forget the ice-cream…you promised …
KATIE…we are watching you…Come over
DavidB …crackle…tickle tack…with Tor Capa
night shift for My Gracie to carry on…
Wait for me TOMMY,
real feta is my specialty…ask Thodori and Pano and AndrewB
Imants will bring wild pork
Herve a SF bay soup
Rafael the fried rice and noodle compination
Davidb a handmade pie from the B area…
Pomara some BBQ ribs
COME ON …help me out…
WHAT’s ON THE table ???
LOVE , Oh ,LOVE YOU
And Mr.Dellicson,
bring some of your new friends over!!!
P.S “Women lock eyes with you constantly.”
Greece, Italy, Spain…Egypt…Brazil…and so many places..I wanna believe
that HUMANS lock eyes with you like there is no tomorrow !!!
LOVE is in the air…can you feel it??? Too much energy ready to explode
Got to go
LIFE IS RUNNING
Civi,
Hugs and kisses from Cyprus…
‘Night everyone…
Jason H..
keep meaning to ask if you know about http://www.iphoneography.com
Hey y’all…
Good evening from San Diego..CA..
( actually Oceanside to be specific )..
Long day today.. Shooting families…
to pay bills..
Miss you y’all.
No laptop with me…
Sooo our late night show resumes Tuesday night ..
Big hug
Erica, Thank you, No I haven’t heard of that one. but they seem to review some apps so I’ll have to poke through and see what its all about! :)
Speaking of, I have to blog tonight. I was too tired and missed my last night’s blog so I’ll have two up tonight.
Tonight’s will be about Mike Peters’ other life. He’s a fellow burnian who is awaiting a computer upgrade to be able to post – (his computer is just awful and times out when he tries to submit posts.) He’s a freelancer for the local Gannett magazines but also does lawn care – He’s knows almost any plant he comes across and is quite an amazing guy. He also helps head the local camera club :) Mike if you read this, lets get that computer going!!!
TOO MANY TIME ZONES>>> CIVILIAN..
come back to the old country soon and we can chat in real time..
this morning tor capa wanted to play at 6.30 am..
little raskle..
especially after pappas friday beers..
and now he has worked out how to turn the volume up on the stereo..
waking the neighbours with radio 4..
raskle..
anyway, must get baking that pie.. gonna fill it with bits and bobs.. or bits of bobus.. something to contemplate as with his post about his stray cat.. we can all get our teeth into that.
TOM
yesyes – the real cheese is in ericas list..
and of course on the internet, youtube or not.. it really doesn’t take too much effort to become well informed even if that means chipping to al jezeera after exposure to fox..
actually – as with HERVE i’ve become quite a fan of youtube..
documentary work of which there is some good stuff.. more pungent than feta..
i really enjoyed your post there tom..
RAFAL
thanks for the reply to your essay.. i omitted to say that i really enjoyed seeing many photos as well..
it felt good to properly tuck into..
as an antidote to pieces it works tremendously well, and the two bodies of work really need to be considered together i think.. without knowing ‘pieces’, the ‘riverside’ would seem a much colder and classically executed exercise in aesthetics.. spacial awareness..
i think there is a narrative running through from one story to the other which has the possibility of chapters of your life, which i guess is your want.. i guess perhaps it is all of our wants to develop bodies of work which illustrate perfectly our stages of development or place in time.. it’s so much more interesting to get that feeling from work, rather than the dull and dry feeling of purely outward looking work.
PANOS – happy shooting..
get them to say ‘feta’.. or
‘big smiles for grandma’..
or for that moody look,
‘grandma died’..
although that risks people crying..
crackle.. click..
the mac shop cannot repair my hard-drive.. and so the options for retrieval of my photo archive just became unaffordable for now…
back up your files, people..
back em up..
Mr Bowen, does he know how to plug in the stereo?
and..
anyone who has tried to market themselves is a propagandist of sorts..
albeit a gently ‘urging’ one,
perhaps some have been dictatorial about it.. ya know.. they say she got 250 000 usd for a day fee..
good grief..
stay in the front of those commissioning editors minds..
program, people.. program.. because lesser photographers surely do..
paul
the little ‘klumpen’ does not.. yet..
ahh..
i guess you are up early on the same vibe ad me, no?
childrens telly and strong coffee.. makes for the perfect morning..
really though .. i respect you for managing 6 years.. i am 2 weeks in an utterly exhausted..
little rascal..
i read you want to do MM pieces.. i recommend getting slideshow pro and soundslides.. using garage band to blend sound.. it’s really easy.. the difficult bit will be when edityors expect us to photograph, record sound, record video and edit it all together for the same fee we used to get photographing :o)
COME VISIT NORWAY>>
Did you ask them to remove the hd for you? You might be able to remove it yourself.
I once managed to get a broken hd to spin up one last time in an external casing and was able to retrieve most everything. And I know others who have managed to do the same. Only cost was the casing which is not expensive.
Best to back up tough, of course.
I guess you’ll need a 3.5 casing.
catch a fish with every 4 casts from shore..
catch a fish on the first cast with every 4 visits..
feel like a fishing god..
already tried it paul, at HAIKs recommendation..
then the mac shop tried more..
now going to try to get a company in the uk to remove the actual disk and if needs be reconstruct the information.. i had a quote in norway of 2000 quid.. a company in england has quote 200, but think it will more likely be 5 or 600.. if they can do it..
it’s just one of those annoying hic-cups, isn’t it? everything with my book is going so smooth .. and in print form at least i know exactly where it’s going..
also want to do an edit for burn.. begin ‘programming’ my assault on the gallery / book world..
just a hic-cup..
okay – running.. klumpen is dancing infront of telly and getting bored with pappa ignoring him..
ERICA…
i am not trying to drive you crazy..so so sorry…..for some reason i have been bombarded this week with all kinds of misc. things to do…today is definitely out , but if you send me a text sometime tomorrow and i promise promise we will do it late sunday or monday if your schedule permits…
JASON…
would you be kind enough to send me an email??? david@burnmagazine.org
DAVID B…
ready to work with you again next week…skype me EARLY mornings…..
Techserve on 23rd street in new york has a listing of several hard drive hospitals whenever they cannot retrieve information from hard drives…all very expensive and last resort hospitals….if you are still stuck by monday, i will do some detective work for you…
cheers, david
DAH
what’s the old joke about not being able to drive someone crazy if they’re already on the edge :) ?
I may be hitting the road, not sure yet, but YES if I am around I will text tomorrow and we will seize the opportunity!
Stories that need to be told, that no one will publish … this drives me beyond nuts
… a story from my old hometown Richmond …
Lessons of Lindsay
David Alan?
DAVID
Sorry I missed your call today. I know your time is precious so don’t worry about calling me back. Your emails answered my questions about the text and my final photo edit for Falling Into Place. I am now “done done” not “almost done,” so everything is cool.
Just please let me know as soon as you’ve made the appointment with Melissa Harris at Aperture. As soon as I have the date, I can book my flight and make hotel reservations. I’m assuming we’ll meet with her at the Aperture gallery and offices in Chelsea. Is my assumption correct? If we’ll be meeting in Brooklyn, as in at your loft, that would mean I’d stay at a different hotel.
Ah, the complexities of being disabled in New York. Sure wish the subway were wheelchair friendly!
hugs
Patricia
I’m curious, David and Patricia, as to what kind of success you will have when pitching this book of Patricia’s.
While the level of work attests to Patricia’s huge leap in visual growth over the past couple of years, and is consistent and life affirming and heartwarming and well-seen and feel-good and just wonderful in many ways, is it something anyone would buy? If you were Melissa Harris at Aperture would you be thinking, “do we want to spend x-thousand dollars designing, proofing, printing, distributing, and publicizing this project? Will we see any positive return?”
I’m a long-time reader of this blog, back from the old days when David would give stuff away to the first person to respond to some query he put out, back when bob black would rant for pages on end, back before curmudgeonly jim set upon us… and I’m staying tuned (though less frequently) waiting for the resolution of this book-project pitch. I’m not saying DAH doesn’t know ’bout books, DAH does know books, but who is going to spend money on this? And will there be enough who do to make it worth Aperture’s or PowerHouse’s or whomever else/s while?
And… while we’re at it, or that is, while I’m at it, throwing water on the burning initiatives, I think this burn gallery is a bad idea. People love photos, they’ll tell you that. Try getting them to peel off a stack of 50’s to put art in their house and you’ll soon find that they don’t love art quite THAT much… and David, you are going to find yourself and your supporters moving a lot of prints to and fro’ … a huge expense of time and energy… no way is this going to pay the rent on your loft, no way… as much as people love you man… now, that’s my opinion, and i’ll admit, i’m my own worst enemy when it comes to getting things done in my life, i don’t have 10% of your energy and optimism… and perhaps THAT is the problem…
we’ll see
xoxo
dq
If you want to see images and read words that will open your heart and break it, click here
http://jmcolberg.com/weblog/2009/08/sally_mann_proud_flesh.html
Sally Mann has a gallery show opening at Gagosian gallery and a new book being released by Aperture this September. “Proud Flesh” contains Sally’s portraits of her husband of 40 years, Larry. This is a show I do not want to miss and a book I intend to own.
When I see work like Sally Mann’s it makes me wonder how I could dare to imagine my efforts would ever be published.
Patricia
Imants, Thodoris, Jared
sorry, did not read your answers until this morning.
Chomsky wrote a book back then (late 70’s), which I spotted, browzing thru a used bookstore some 20 years ago, but was stupid enough not to buy, because I was utterly dejected by the tenure of it. Really stupid of me. I even remember it was 6US$.
Again, he clearly showed in “manufacturing consent”, the movie/docu about him, that the KR rouge genocide holds little interest to him (besides being propagandized by the West, of course), he prefers a right wing one, like East Timor, Indonesia being an ally of US administrations, his lifelong nemesis, against communism. To each his own….
Anyway, fast forward to the internet, 15 or so years later. Unlike you guys, I have no heroes that I brandish as the ultimate proof that THIS is right and THAT is wrong. Case by case…. And facts.
This is one of the better annotated, referenced articles I have ever seen posted on the internet. It is also keeping to facts, rather than intentions and inventions.
I travel in South-Est Asia for over 20 years now, my interest in that region, books, lectures, culture, internet has always been sustained. I had this in my folders quite a few years already. Nothing special in that, for me.
Here it is:
http://www.mekong.net/cambodia/chomsky.htm
PS:
BTW, Not sure why you sneer about Ytube, as if the container was more important than the content. A bit superficial, no? Likewise, my response was to you, Thodoris, nothing to do with Rafal, he is big enough and does not need me.
And Imants, I still have not attacked you or insulted your intelligence, I will let people judge who seems closer to the quacking sounds of a duck, over and over again.
Was there a post from Herve …………. hmmn must have missed it, probably stoking his own ego again no great loss.
Funny how the Rafal’s duck armada image found it’s way here after the hoo har about Nth Korea …….so if you want to know the future twitter me here https://twitter.com/fukinnothinaskherveheknowsall
Harve,
a)
I will have to get back to you about Chomsky after I read the article you posted. It might take some time though since I’m dyslexic.
b)
Please!!
You did come to the rescue of Rafal by displaying your support to his point of view.
As for the “…throwing names…” part you accused me of, my words were far less offensive and malicious than the ones Rafal used (and to whom I was responding to) and nowhere near words YOU have used on this same forum.
Rafal,
I apologize for calling you braindead.
Time to crash…
TODAY I would like to send good energy towards our old
HOMETOWNS !!!
Wherever is your old town, Richmond, Glendale,in Alaska, in Costa Rica, in North Kora
somewhere in Australia,Africa …
and photographers …THANK you for telling us stories that need to be told
Thanks Tom Hyde (once again)
LOVE to All…
P.S Tor Capa the Amazing BURN baby !!! LOVE
LOVE to all the BURN babies (Felix,Dimas…Dark kids…)
Katie …where the heck are you ???
LOVE PEACE AND PHOTOGRAPHY
GREECE is BURNING :(((
Civilians need me …I got to help…
P.S May the spirit of FIRE be good with all the BURNing hometowns in the Universe
and mine…OIME
DAVID ahhh
that’s very kind my friend.. it’s all in hand though.
sending it away to london on monday and will see.. they have offered me a free diagnostic and quote..
yes – early morning your time is lunchtime here so i’ll leave skype open..
be great to catch up..
was going to ask – do you have any further european plans this year?
speak to you soon :o)
d
In DAH’s phone message Saturday at noon EDT he said the waves from Hurricane Bill were 25 feet/7.62 meters high and he was going out to take photos of the surfers!!! Check out this video to get a taste of what that looked and sounded like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3q2t5Go9B4
Patricia
Civilian
I´m here..and well, there. Mostly there. But you and Gracie and others, you´re always here..*pointing to her heart*..always here with me. Wish we could go to a place that´s a little less crowded and talk but this is the stage you do your little dance, make your little asides, your sweeping gestures in pantomine, shadowbox, blow kisses and twitter your love to the masses. You come here and drink up the swill, mixing it with the vibes, drizzling in the laughter, stirring it around, down it in a gulp and then you´re gone till the next thirst is upon you. That´s nice. That´s good. As always, i call you mine. Mine friend. Mine rag doll brain stem friend. Love you Civilian. Besos y abrazos. Please tell Gracie too. La querida Graciekins.
DAH, please don´t get swept into the eye. Unless that´s where the fun and the fotos happen to be. Best to you as always..
Kathleen
Kathleen, please come back and STAY with us. We need you here!!!
xxoo
Patricia
Long time lurker with a question, if I may… Quite a while ago, perhaps in the Road Trip days, DAH was pondering the modern situation where more photographs are being taken than ever before, and with internet distribution, and how some were saying that this glut was bad for some aspects of photography. He made some eloquent remarks about how he thought the opposite was true and the flood meant that this was as good a time as any for creativity in the field. I’ve been trying to find these comments again and struggling… I wonder if anyone could help me out please?
Of course, a restatement and expansion of that philosophy from the same source would be even better..:), but there are way more important things.
Many thanks and regards to all.
KATHLEEN…
welcome home!! so pleased you are here…i second Patricia’s sentiment…
i always come close to getting swept into the eye….close but not lost..that is EXACTLY where all the fun and photos are…right there on the edge….almost tipping, but not over….
cheers, david
Herve,
Thanks for the link. Should have a chance to read it tonight.
It’s kind of silly, though, to lambast a guy for pointing out inaccuracies in Western media coverage of an event, especially when that is the stated purpose of his analysis. Upfront. I highly doubt he said that the Khmer Rouge did no wrong — or apologized for them. Everything I’ve read on the era and from him regarding it has to do with reasons, underlying causes, lack of media coverage of anti-American things that went down, etc.
Saying he’s an apologist for the Khmer is like saying you don’t support the troops if you question the validity of the the 2 wars being fought in the Middle East — overused, psuedo-patriotic, divisive nonsense. But maybe I’ll be proven wrong when I read it. I’ll let you know…
Hey DAH. I see the storm passed you by. Hope all is well.
Did you get a chance to peek at the fair stuff?
Patricia and David A.H.
well, gee, what does a girl say to either one of your comment, let alone both?! um, well, thanks (?)..pales by comparison to your sentiments but i will try, try to pop in at least once a day..Patricia, how is your book coming along, and David how is your rose bush faring?
David, it´s a little ironic what i wrote to you today and now saw that little girl in Maine swept into the sea by a rogue wave. Very sad for her family. As far as negotiating eyes, the eye of the storm is a bit like a lens now that i think about it. Wherever there is a lens there is life swirling around it dancing to its own chaotic song and clamoring for photographic attention. When you´re behind the lens, no matter what else is happening, there is a center of calm absorption and a primal attraction at almost the cellular level to the serendipitous careening of teentsy atomic explosions, implosions, black holes, sink holes, man holes and blow holes. haha..well, i mean, it´s true, right? Forgive my silly blissed out gush here but i just got back from about 7 hours of shooting at a horse tope (aka drunken brawl that happens to also feature many horses) so i´m still a little dazed and confused.
Actually, Patrica…*stretching out on the Stray Cat forum couch*..it feels pretty comfortable here..got any beer in that fridge? I may wear out my welcome but for now, guess i´ll stick around for awhile.
But really, all kidding aside. Thanks, Patrica and David. Thanks so much. :))
kathleen
oh DAH, one more thing
I just read your stray cat post up above, for the first time..i swear i just now saw all that stuff about serendipity..now THAT is REALLY funny to me!
Congratulations on being chosen by Simone (sometimes Lulu) for ownership. I mean, do NOT get it into your head that you picked her because cats do their own picking thank you very much. I have three cats and actually i broke up with a guy recently who wanted me to move back to NJ to be with him. I asked him what i would do with my cats and he said, swear to god, ¨Give them away¨. NEXT???
I had a conversation with a campesino peon last week. He lives at a little caretaker house on the property of a place i worked at for i dunno, 13 years or something. I had a cat there who, yes, picked me. She was also a stray and when the business closed i could not take her with me because my cats would have beaten her to a pulp. So i asked the peon to take care of her if i bought the food. He grudgingly accepted. Well, seems stray cat fever has struck him too because now he tells me that if i ever want that cat back i can just pound salt.
hahaha, that´s a cat for ya..magical creatures that they are. I am absolutely thrilled for both you and Simone.
best
(cat)kat
Kathleen, seems we’ve got a Corolla or two sitting around here someplace. Come on over and pull up a chair. You’re always welcome here. Whenever I read your posts, I am struck anew by how wonderfully you use the English language. I could ride the waves of your words.
I’m sure everyone else is sick to death of hearing about my book, but I’m pretty much finished. If you click on my name and then go to “Falling Into Place” under Portfolios, you’ll see the final edit. To read the text–which will be at the end of the book–simply click on “info” when the cover photo appears. DAH and I hope to meet with Melissa Harris of Aperture in NYC in October. All my fingers and toes are crossed. Thanks for asking…
Patricia
DAVID:
just left u a voice message….time is of the essence….give me a call (if u can) before 11 tonight…or after 7pm tomorrow….
bb
Patricia,
You are no slouch in the writing department yourself..¨ride the waves of your words¨ indeed..beautifully said! ok, gonna go right now this minute without a pause or even taking the time to draw a breath and find the final edit of your book. And ohmygod, i will cross at least half of my fingers and toes for your Aperture meeting. GULP. YOU GO; GIRL!! I am blown away by what you´ve done and how far you have progressed. You are an inspiration to me to keep going, to just keep the f**k going! And now, since i am turning blue from refusing to draw a breath, i am off, *gasp, gasp* to the fridge for that beer…no, no, no! i am off to your portfolio to find your book edit!
xoxox
kat
Patricia the book is looking very good. It will be exciting to see it in print. And buy one, of course. ;)
Patricia
I just clicked on your name and before i dig into your portfolio i have got to tell you that that is one hell of a killer photo you have on the first page. Blew me right the hell away. Now i am totally intimidated, haha, but since i am turning blue i better get to your book edit..but had to tell you what a knockout that photo is!
kat
hi patricia,
about a few weeks back i wrote here or on buzz some corolla-laced words to get you going…
and no, i am not tired of you mentioning your book. definitely you are an inspiration to us all.
tonight, i checked back to read your text primarily. i only had ten minutes of alone time which was cut short to about 4.5 minutes when my four year old son, zac peeked over my shoulder as usual. up on the screen was your cover photo.
and he said, ‘oh thats so scwary (scary)’ thought he meant the mannequin in the background (no head, no legs). and so i asked him ‘why is this picture scary to you zac, which part of the picture is scary?’
and he said, ‘oh thats so scwary’ and pointed to your face in the mirror. ‘she lookin like so sad it’s so scwary’.
and like usual, i put my hand on his shoulder and again, didnt know what to say.
Jared, definitely, the article is definitely way above the type of zealot rants served on Ytube, day in and day out. I don’t look at that crap.
Apologist? IMO: no in an activist pov, yes, on an ideological one (that which was behind US anti-imperialism). He was not alone like that back then, but he was privy to much more infos than most, with the brain to decipher it correctly.
The article, as I recall (I do not read it often. It’s huge!) shows he took sides with real apologists of the regime (I do not think he had any personal enthusiasm about the KR. He never did anything on their behalf. By 1977, roughly, only psycopaths would have done so)
We must also remember that Chomsky, is not a politician or an activist, not even a journalist. He is a linguist. His interest is in information, how it can be produced, consumed and used as a tool of power to defend or prop itself up.
Patricia;
Congrats on the progress you’re making on your book. Actually, I’ve resisted looking at the links to the new pics/words etc. Why? Because I will definitely be buying your book and it would be like being told the plot and end of a movie right before you see it! I want to preserve the enjoyment!
Welcome back Katie; hopefully the late nights here won’t be so empty!!
What’s everyone been shooting? I’ve been staying at the folks place by the sea, so have been writing and when totally fed up with the laptop have gone out shooting down the coast.
Went to shoot an abandoned section filled with lichen encrusted, rusty old vehicles. Have shot there a few times before but it’s right beside the road so usually think “will do it next time”.
I got caught out a while ago with the “it’s been there for ages; it’ll always be there theory. There “was” an old abandoned freezing works (export meat killing plant) that I sneaked into to shoot once. Was going to do more work in there each time I passed, thinking “it’ll always be there” (it was abandoned in the early 80’s). Was always going to call in again, until it burned down….
Moral of the story? Do it today, don’t put it off…
Anyway have had a great time shooting with the D300, a Holga and an old Agfa Isoly. For some reason using the old beaters “loosened” my shooting with the digi? Must be a left brain, right brain thing? Who knows.
Anyway, enough from me; what’s everyone been shooting?
Gracie; Isn’t it great that young kids shoot straight from the hip!
Gracie, as they say, out of the mouths of babes. I am deeply moved by Zac’s response to that photo. He’s seeing INTO it, not AT it. An intuitive young man methinks…much like his mother.
Kathleen, I’m touched that you are taking the time to look at my work. Thank you so much for your interest. The support of this community has been invaluable to me. And I’m glad you like my home page pic–it is one of my favorites too. In April, as this project was winding down, I started another that I call Mirror Me. The young woman on my home page is part of that project. You can see a tight edit of it on my website.
Jim, your encouragement means the world to me. Knowing that you always say it like you see it means your positive feedback is like gold in the hand. Thank you.
Patricia
I understand your resistance to looking at my photos and text, Ross. Yes, let it be a surprise!
And to answer your question, I haven’t been shooting much of anything these days. Hope to get back to it when my book project no longer needs so much attention. Hope I haven’t forgotten how to do what I love the best ;=0
Patricia
Pat/Gracie;
I remember reading Freeman Patterson when he said that when children draw they naturally abstract the most important elements. You ask them to draw their mum and they’ll draw a small body but a huge head with an oversize smile; naturally abstracting “their” view of their mum.
Or ask them to draw a house and they’ll draw a rendition of their favourite, fantasy house. Soon it is “taught” out of them at school. Ask them to draw a house and it is a sguare house, triangle roof, square windows and a door, plain Jane style.
I suppose we all need to photograph as a child would….
Patricia; I have just ordered Larry Towell’s ” The World from my Front Porch” from Amazon. So will be keenly checking my mailbox in a fortnight or so for Santa to bring me an early present…
Patricia
love the peace sign on your well, what is that called exactly, a zoom buggy? a motor boater? a 4 wheel ATV? a Porsche? whatever, LOVE the peace sign..the pierced nose on the mask..haha…that cracked me up, your beautiful flowing clothes with colors of the sea, the sky, the hills beyond..beautiful colors..you are so pretty, beautiful in fact..loved that too! i love that you are neither too brave, too defeated, too optimistic, too blue, too strong, too melancholy. You are just right, all of the above, none of the above..sometimes one, sometimes another, sometimes more than the eye and heart can bear but in the next photo you´re back up again, your skirts lifting in the breeze, your toenails painted a randy revlon red, happy in a happy moment, tranquil in a tranquil moment but always lovely, feminine and a true lady. One thing always that made me think is the luck i have, the blessings and the treasures that your deeply personal photos made me reflect on as if for the first time..but then too, i noticed you have wealth and treasures i don´t have. Life is like that, nobody has it all. We all have a very great deficit of something or many somethings. And we have surfeits of other somethings. Your drive, creativity, spirit and depth of feeling are some things you have in surfeit. We could all wish for such passion, Pat.
I wish you every success with your book and whether Aperture takes a nibble, a bite or the whole hook or whether you do it Blurb style, count me in for a copy. And i agree with your observation about what Gracie´s little Zac said. Obviously he is one of her very great treasures.
ROSS
Yes, i will try to pop in from more and it will most likely be at night so it will be great to keep late night company with you. Your words about not waiting too long to shoot what we think will always be there are so true. i let so many things/events/moments go by without shooting because i always think there´s plenty more where they came from. Maybe a moment doesn´t burn down but it sure does disappear and along with it a possible killer photo. Note to self–get back to carrying a camera EVERYWHERE.
Ok, gnight, all..shot twelve rolls over 7 hours and walked my skinny legs off (one of my treasures..strong legs :) and tired like to die..so take care and shoot much!
Patricia, thanks for the invite to look at your book. Your work is an inspiration!
Kathleen
What’s everyone been shooting
———————————
Chinatown, today….
http://upload.pbase.com/image/116444388
Patricia,
I love your writing and your pictures! You are such a great lady! So glad to know you!
Just returned home yesterday from a week long trip to the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad.
I guess this trip was all about plans that failed and unexpected joy and luck that came out of nowhere.
A brief summary of events:
Shortly after crossing the border into Russia my 5D made a bad noise and indicated Error 99. The shutter was gone and no chance to take any pictures. An early end to a photo trip?
It was a nice sunny day when I arrived at my hotel near Gusew, 100 Kilometers east of Kaliningrad and so I went for a swim in the lake and decided to take this trip as a holiday. Luckily the owner of the hotel was so kind and gave me his little lumix camera and so I could keep shooting. The menu was in Russian and in order to read the memory card I had to use my digital voice recorder as a card reader. I was saved!
The next big suprise came the next day when we learned that the truck got stuck at the border custom because of 2 tons of overload. No chance to get the aid goods for the kindergartens, orphanages and home for the elderly any time soon. We went to the places anyway.
For me this was my first trip to Russia and I fell in love with the country and it’s people right away. Everyone was friendly and by 2 a.m. I usually had my first vodka and by midnight we were all drunk. Nicely drunk and no headache or anything the next morning. We had delicious shashlik, a kind of barbecue, every evening and I hugged many people and drank to health, friendship and the dead.
This trip was also a journey back in time. It often seemed that the time stood still. One lady was with us who fled in 1944 as a young girl at the age of 10. Just when I did a recording of Renate’s story, a Russian fighter jet, a Sukhoi Su27 fighter plane went above us and made some incredible noise above our heads. So past and present are very close. With Renate I went to her home that she left as a child. Today nothing is left except a big tree that indicates the place. Renate has found her piece with history and she visits the people that live now in the homes of her ancesters. Tears from her and the Russians ran and it was very moving to witness all this. Yes, it is a place full of German and Russian history and I learned much about this part of the world which was very new to me. I hope I can get a little series of my lumix images together.
So, many things on this trip didn’t work out the way I expected, but at the same time I am so grateful to have met so many nice and wonderful people there. What more can I ask for?
On the journey back home we went through Lithuania and Poland and it was a great joy to see the beautiful scenery there. Great places! I have to go back soon.
Reimar
Hervé:
This morning: http://johnvink.com/news/2009/08/24/day-63/
I just posted this: http://twoeightproject.wordpress.com/2009/08/24/town-hall-meeting-rome-ga/
what I shot over the weekend will be added to Guerras del Agua shortly
ROSS…
i will try to get in and take a look at your work either today or tomorrow…thanks for your patience…
PETE…
i have been shooting from morning til dark the last three days on the storm, so i have not seen your fair link…i just must look at Ross’ work first…
BOB…
received your message too late to call you….tonight sounds fine…
REIMAR…
i hope you have pictures of all of the above to show us…however, you said “we usually had our first drink by 2am and by midnight we were drunk”……hmmmmmm……sounds like a very long day….
cheers, david
Harve,
I’ll give you that the article you posted offers a legitimate analysis—instead of the bushing and mud throwing that ignite the debate on this forum—but you’ll have to agree that is just that. An analysis. It is by far *not* the last word on the subject, and—to its credit—the article itself provides sources and links to counter analysis and counter arguments to be made, “and so on and so forth”…
At the moment I have neither the time nor the energy to follow up on all the seemingly endless articles that make up this debate, so I’ll back down and will not attempt to prove you wrong. It seems that far more knowledgeable people than I on this subject are still debating over it.
On a slightly different note:
Having one heroes isn’t a bad thing—as per your suggestion. Idealizing people, and turning a blind eye to whatever objectionable they do or say, is.
And I’m not talking about people who at the heat of the moment forgot about their own mortality and acted altruistically. I’m talking about people who live their lives day in and day out trying to make sense of this world through a conscious effort to find out how things really are and what forged things in becoming the way they are. And one the most prominent voices—for me—in this regard is that of Noam Chomsky’s. This guy is a living legend in his own field—that of linguistics—and could have easily chosen to lead a life of academia publishing papers that only a handful of other intellectuals would ever read but he didn’t. To that regard, yes, I consider him a hero.
It is one thing to agree or disagree with his analysis. Quite another what Rafal did. I wonder, do you stand by him on the manner he expressed himself on this matter?
ALL….
we are still working on the best system for taking in your prints for the Burn gallery shows this fall..
one in New York in october, one in Washington during PhotoWeek in november….for the New York show, we can probably hang 40 prints to sell from our Burn audience…i think i will ask for about 5 prints from a few legendary photographers who live in New York, i.e. Elliott Erwitt or Bruce Davidson, who i will also ask to come to the event…i think this will create a mood and a crowd most likely to buy your prints…
three other things keeping me away from daily chat here on the forum are: (a) seeing how it all goes with having Burn as part of the upcoming Magnum online channel system..(b) looking carefully into the possibility of a Burn book imprint so that we might publish say 4 books per year…(c) my own photography…i am shooting a lot right now and the only way i can survive with Burn is to have help all around….
neither the gallery nor the book publishing venture are good businesses from a traditional business perspective…yet , they take up as much or more time as a “good business”…..so, i am totally in an exploratory stage….i have had incredible offers for help from many of you and i so so appreciate it…
cheers, david
shooting beats printing and things are just a bit well not there http://www.etrouko.com.au/iman.htm
David; No worries, whenever suits…
Cheers
Herve, John,
Happy people who are able to take good pictures everyday.
Pic from yesterday, today I just go outside, hope shots some nice images :).
http://marcinluczkowski.blogspot.com/2009/08/snapshots-from-workshops.html
IMANTS
“no me saques sin razon” is exquisite. Is it available as a book in print? You, my friend, are a remarkable artist/seer/visionary. Thank you for sharing your work with us.
Patricia
Thanks…….Patricia at the moment it is hovering winging it’s way around my mind…….. either I’m going to make a limited hand made version of 10 copies or print about 100-200. It’s about costs and having a market to sell to. I do know a good printer here and a publisher or two but a lot will have to be self funded.
Nice images Marcin and Imants…
I am all about feet today :-)
http://vebahood.wordpress.com/
IMANTS
Please let us know what you decide. I doubt if I could afford a handmade book but if it were a limited edition of 100-200, hopefully I could purchase one. I am quite taken with it!
Patricia
Patricia
People keep mentioning your writing but i didn´t see any text..i went back to your ¨how to¨ instructions to see the final edit of your book and realized i missed the part about finding the text. Ok, well that will definitely fill in a lot of the blanks for me. I filled them in visually without your input and later today…much, much later, i will read your text. Hope my comments did not offend you.
REIMAR
I really enjoyed your account of your Russian shooting experiences. You made the most of what ordinarily would have shortcircuited someone else´s shooting trip and it and all worked out so well. Sounds like the people you encountered made the trip a memory of a lifetime. That´s often how it is, the people i meet determine how my shooting goes. Yesterday shooting the horse tope (horse parade) in my small town which retains a country feel even though it is on the edge of exploding suburbia, the people were so wonderful, amazing, lovely, friendly, kind, open and warm. Shooting was joyous and abundant. Life gave me so much all through the afternoon. Then the tope ended and the fiestas filled up and that was a different feeling altogether; cold, alien, claustrophobic and vaguely ominous. The people came from another element altogether and that element is tough and poor and i´m not talking about just financially poor. Hardened young boys broke bottles and started fighting. The cops wrestled them apart and took them away. But more trouble was brewing in the air. Drunks from the tope were still drinking at the fiestas. Police were plentiful, edgy and watchful. i shot a final roll of 1600 and even though i had several rolls of 3200 film to take me into a possibly interesting dusk and evening i decided the atmosphere was too tense and my energy too low. i went home.
The people and the energy of a place can make a tremendous difference. And to that you brought your own positive attitude and all turned out so happily. Congrats, Reimar!
best to all
Kathleen
KATHLEEN
Oh my goodness, how could I possible be offended by your comment? I was touched by what you have to say because I admire your critical eye and artistic sensibility. You are always honest and that is what I want/need to hear, especially now when changes can be made both to my photo edit and my text. Thank you so much for taking the time to look at and read what I hope will become a book. Your opinion matters to me.
REIMAR
Thank you, my friend, for your positive comment about my work, but more importantly, thank you for sharing your amazing story. You take me into the heart of what you experience and enrich my life with your sharings. Looking forward to seeing your photos from Russia. Please post a link when they are ready. You live such an interesting life!
Patricia
THODORIS and HERVE
I’ve been following your discussion with great interest. I am a long-time admirer of Noam Chomsky’s analyses of current events. He is quite the academic and a bit dry when speaking in public but perhaps it’s that dispassionate approach that sits well with me. I get a bit uneasy when reading/hearing writers and speakers whose passion seems to get in the way of their clearsighted analyses of governmental policies and practices. It can sound like the propaganda I’ve heard at all too many rallies and demonstrations. No, Noam Chomsky isn’t perfect, but who is? To my way of thinking his is a very important voice to be heard, especially in times like these when the mainstream media has been bought by their advertisers. We always need to have intelligent voices of dissent.
Patricia
I’m a reader and lurker, and have been forever. I posted my first comment yesterday but due to the necessary first-comment moderation, it appeared long after the discussion had moved on.
The comment said that I’m looking forward to seeing what kind of success david and patricia will have in pitching patricia’s book, for while she has shown amazing progress and has produced a body of life-affirming, wonderful work, i’m curious as to whether or not a publisher will risk the money on a project like this — designing, proofing, printing, distributing — you wonder what kind of a return a publisher is looking for, how big a print run they would make, etc, how many books are proposed to aperture each year, e.g. .. we’ll have to wait and see, i suppose… good luck patricia, we’re watching, waiting, and, yes, worrying…
and since i’m fundamentally a negative person, i also yesterday poured some water on the flames for david’s burn gallery print exhibits… i just don’t think people are going to part with their money to bring art into their houses. people say they love art, they support it, but when it comes time to peel off the bills it’s not so easy… fact of life, imho… david and the folks who are involved in this gallery will be spending a ton of time and energy moving prints too and fro, hanging them, then returning them to the artists… you have to wonder if this particular effort is worth it… if i had half of dah’s energy and optimism i’d be way ahead of where i find myself now… and yet, you have to wonder if this gallery effort will move the market at all.
DQ..
i am primarily a positive person, yet i have the same concerns as do you…all i can say is, we will see…
in this particular economy and publishing market, i think Patricia still has a good chance…i am certainly about to find out…her story is a story about strength…it is well photographed…
most of the best photo book publishers have always published “unmarketable” books (i.e.Aperture, Phaidon) …certainly never have been and never will be for the mass market…mostly, for photography lovers…Patricia’s book does cross over the line however into a potentially mainstream book…
i think i said earlier today , i do not think that either a Burn imprint, nor a Burn gallery will be good businesses per se….i am going to set it up for the maximum chance to sell a few prints, but we all know there is no way to predict what will or will not happen…again, just giving it a try and if it does not work, then so be it…i am that way with everything i do….
cheers, david
Quite another what Rafal did. I wonder, do you stand by him on the manner he expressed himself on this matter?
————————-
No, Thodoris. I don’t. I just picked up on the Chomsky bit after you, that’s all.
Patricia, I am not sure what you are talking about. Can you tell me (privately if you wish) where my “passion got in the way”?
Too many people have read him as if they were drinking sweet milk, uncritically, and unthinkingly (on their own, that is). That is what I like in Europe (France at least), within the same political spectrum, there are many different views challenging each other. And weeklies, magazines can have such debate on their cover, not just page 27.
The intellectual (and intelligent too) debate in the USA has a pitiful paucity. Dissent from the PC line is not tolerated,that is if it had a chance to express itself (How many people know who was the green party candidate AND what they had to say ?)?
Actually, if people REALLY did their Chomsky homework, they might know…
Thank you Marcin. And John Vink, you guys are doing superb work at Kaset.com, covering the KR trial.
The last entries were hard to read thru. I knew of the unlucky New Zealand guy taken to S21, off his boat, but to learn now the consequences of his atrocious death on his family….
Actually, not kaset.com but:
http://cambodia.ka-set.info/
Patricia,
I agree.
Dissent is a good thing. It has the *potential* to initiate healthy and well intentioned debate which is by far the best way to get exposed to other people’s ideas and to test the strength of our own.
Harve,
I’m burying the hatchet (for now :))
Next time though, when you read something disturbing I wrote please check to see what might have set me off before responding to my post. Make sense?
David,
ups, I got mixed up with the time. I was talking about 2 p.m. Drinking strated after lunch… I don’t want to recomend this procedure, I did this more because of politeness. And yes, the days were very long!
Kathleen,
glad you liked my short story. May I ask where your home is? Probably you have mentioned this before, but I can only guess – Spain or Mexico?
Yes, it is always the people that make a difference. And this short trip to Russia was certainly a trip of a lifetime or a trip that I will never forget. It is the people that you meet that stay in your memory. Even language is no real barrier. Gestures, a smile, a hug, all that can mean so much. Much, much more than the biggest monuments or the most luxurious hotels.
You know on this trip I lost all sense of time. I totally forgot about my home, never thought much about the future and simply lived in the present. This happens very rarely. I like this feeling of breathing the moment. But I didn’t forget about burn and when my camera died I thought of Panos who takes great pictures with an iphone. And I had the good spirit of burn with me. With a good and positive spirit life becomes much, much nicer, even in moments that are not so happy.
Yes, I think you have to have a second sense to know when it is time to go. In strange situations I listen to my stomach. When it tells me it is time to go, I go and I trust my guts for this.
Sometimes people are in such a bad mood, you have no chance to access them so it is better to leave and there is nothing wrong with that.
Patricia,
yes, I will get some pictures on the web as soon as possible. Tomorrow is a busy day taking pictures so there is a bit of a delay.
Best
Reimar
HERVE
“Can you tell me (privately if you wish) where my “passion got in the way”?”
Dear friend, I was not referring to you in any way, shape or form. I was specifically referring to countless speakers I’ve heard at rallies and demonstrations. If you re-read my post I think my meaning will be clear.
DQ
I have no illusions about this publishing venture, especially as regards Aperture. We’re starting with my first choice of publisher, that’s all. I so respect Aperture the magazine and feel a deep kindredness with Minor White, its founding editor. His artistic aesthetic, mystical sensitivity and openness to photography as an innately expressive medium resonates with everything I feel about photography myself. For this reason, I would be incredibly honored to have my self portraits published by Aperture.
That being said, if Melissa Harris chooses not to publish my work I’ll be disappointed, sure, but not crushed. We’ll just come up with another publishing house to approach. There are many fine ones out there, each of whom would do a wonderful job with my essay.
DAH’s belief in Falling Into Place is success enough, to be honest. And I’ve heard from so many persons with disabilites who saw my work published last May in New Mobility magazine, persons who said it felt so good to have their story told “from the inside,” that I want this to become a book for their sakes. They deserve to be seen and heard. As does every individual in the world.
Thank you, DQ, for your concern and well wishes. And thank you, David, for being at my side every step of the way. If Falling Into Place IS published in book form, it will be because of your support, edits and advocacy. There are no words large enough to express my gratitude to you.
Patricia
Thanks Hervé… It’s really appreciated.
Especially now that due to the crisis, an overly optimistic business plan (DAH beware of that on the www), and the impossibility to benefit of Paypal in Cambodia, we had to let go of the whole staff (luckily everyone found another job). Stéphanie Gée, writer, Ji-sook Lee, translator, Laurent Le Gouanvic, writer, and myself continue Ka-set.info until the end of the Duch trial for free.
so patricia,
i showed your cover photo to my other son, ethan who is six years old and asked him what he thought
and he said:
‘well, im thinking… (pause) … how can a granma have both long and short hair?’
har har har :)))
must you sport a braid, to him deciding short or long is the issue ;)
CIVI, CIVI, CIVI
Please make reference to items directed to your palate. http://twoeightproject.wordpress.com/2009/08/24/the-worlds-longest-yard-sale-on-lookout-mt-georgia/.
I live to serve. Smoked Ham Biscuits.
Burn, Burn, Burn
Paul
Herve/John; As you can probably guess it has been pretty big news here in NZ
http://www.3news.co.nz/Rower-Rob-Hamill-turns-attention-to-Cambodian-genocide-trial-/tabid/367/articleID/99111/cat/61/Default.aspx
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/features/2315038/Brotherly-love-Rob-Hamill-wants-justice-for-brother-killed-by-Khmer-Rouge
Cheers Ross
GRACIE
Tell Ethan a granma can have both long and short hair if she has a tail (that’s what I call my little braid). It is leftover from when I went from hair below my waist to a brush cut. That was in 2000, before Ethan was born. My tail just gets skinnier and skinnier, but I plan to keep it as long as there are three hairs to braid ;=)
I do love your boys…
Patricia
JOHN VINK
Stéphanie Gée, writer, Ji-sook Lee, translator, Laurent Le Gouanvic, writer, and myself continue Ka-set.info until the end of the Duch trial for free
————————–
The 4 muskaseteers, then…. :-))))
You guys are the ones to be thanked for, just fantastic and humbling, the work you are doing in times of trial (not Duch’s, l’ economie…).
DEAR BURNIANS,
My autobiography is coming soon:
” THE CIVILIAN”…
the legendary journey and adventures of the mythical hero, king Civilian, who, leaving victoriously the battlefields at the Universe, attempted to return to his home, back to BURNing Athens.”
DEAR BURNIANS,
I am just kidding…:))) no book of any kind from my side:)))
I am back at home, Athens was on Fire …I got to help, I got to be back on my Greek mode too…:(((
so many stuff to work on…BURN is running too…many photos,news,books,galleries…
KATIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
is back,LOVE you,XOXO,
My Gracie and her boys,Pomara I love your BBQ/photo,check your blog,our Patricia…I am in awe,yours…Reimar,my man I wish there are 13 million people like you out there…,Herve,Velibor,Marcin,Imants,Rossy…shooting words,I see New Burnians,dq
And MR.DAH the optimism is receiving a friendly advice from John…to be aware of some…www :)))
P.S Thodori are you ok???
other Greek BURNians are your homes O.k ???
Where is Panos??? Stelios??? Anna???
LOVE ,LOVE ,LOVE…all we need is love !!! maybe and some feta cheese and ouzo
KEEP BURNing …I WILL BE BACK.
Hmmmmmm…
How can someone leave chance for forgiveness to the Dutch ???
How???
How???
P.S thank you BURNians for the insight
Civilian
¨I am just kidding…:))) no book of any kind from my side:)))¨
Now that is definitely bad news Civi…you YOU have so much dancing around in that brain of yours that i for one would love to see it put down in chapter and verse. Alas, you are kidding. But not about the fire. Is it out now? Are things getting back to normal? I feel very bad for anyone who lost home and property and i am very hopeful there was no loss of life though i can´t say for sure.
Juliette went back to college today…boo-hoo, will miss her so much there are not words to say just how much. She turned me into a vegetarian this trip and i turned her into even more of an artist than she already was.
Civi…thank you, thank you for keeping that little candle in your window for me, and the key under the pot in the garden. I hope it´s still there (?)..so good to see you still loving everybody and BURN-ing! (But not Athens style, please!)
besos, babee
katheeee
John Vink
I will repeat after Herve, you guys doing great and important work, and i hope even with problems you will still keep your mission.
Dear David,
Hello! …long time… :)))
I have just sent e-mail to you.
Please check it out.
I contains my new portfolios.
During July and Aug. I had left home… Sydney, China and Nephal…because of exhibition, photographing, NGO working…
I would like to send my hello to all Burn friends… :)))
Marcin,
Congratulations on your gallery!
It looks very nice… especially the texture of gallery wall …I like it. :)))
Hope to see it.
Thanks,
Kyunghee
Heyyyyyyyy y’all……..
just made it back to little Salvador……
time to check on the last two essays………..
hmmmmmmmm… lots i missed……….
time to get (burn) it together…
pretty quick…
John Vink…
Good Job..
i second Marcin and Herve………
absolutely….
Marcin , nice portrait of the young man in your blog. The blacks are really black, nice contrast with his blonde hair and white shirt. I will keep the link to that blog handy.
Patricia;
I’m sure your hard work will come to fruition. And yes; it will be with a quality publisher because that’s what it deserves (and I’ve only seen snippets of it!).
Well I’ve had a weird sort of day. A mag that had 4 of my articles ready to publish has pulled the pin on them because the mag has “changed focus”. Translation; our advertisers have left in droves and we’re a bit in the crap. It’s a rural mag and has gone from profile stories to “equipment focussed”. So in other words trying to sell more advertising….
Oh well; one door closes, another opens, managed to move one off to another mag and hopefully more to follow. So I suppose at the risk of sounding like a 3rd rate motivational speaker, look at any stumbling blocks as opportunities!!!
What annoyed me was that they gave me short deadlines which meant I wasn’t able to get other pieces done that month for other mags. That always equates to a tight month in 2 months time…
It’s funny how much pull advertisers have in the mag world; even amongst the bottom feeders. Recently I pitched a story about sabbatical fallowing (a way of farming without using artificial fertiliser) to a rural mag and the editor asked me to write it without mentioning the “no fertiliser” angle. She didn’t want to upset and lose any advertisers even though the mag is focussed on saving farmers money…
It made me wonder what say advertisers have on the big mags etc. And whether editors had enough “testicular fortitude” to stand up to them or not….
Anyway; off my soapbox now….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R32aFmxL9HY&feature=channel
this one goes to my beloved “venice beach”…..
laughing
Panos, I agree with you that its got nothing to do with surrealism but why don’t you like the current photo essay. I mean why don’t you like that sort of thing? Don’t you think it shows imagination? Does every photo have to look like non-fiction.
I also want to understand why several people think it shows great technique. I incline to think not. Clearly the photographer knows how to manipulate images in photoshop and the techniques of printing and toning but is it good technique to emulate the technical limitations of photography a century or more ago but still not look like the real thing? Surely photographers back then would have used better lenses if they had them. But for me its enough to use black and white or toned prints and a bit of softness to evoke the time. But if they make the images less beautiful than they could otherwise be, is that good technique? Also some images are awkwardly cropped/framed that I think they don’t look their best, unfortunately, eg the Rapunzal and the mother with the cot. But i just do want to see more lavish and lush tonality. More refined images technically.
What is wrong my perspective?
Marcin,
Had a look at your website you might like the work of http://www.maxforsythe.com
Back to the subject of starting/finishing/getting distracted, it is often exciting staring new ventures the problem is sustaining the momentum whilst dealing with the general admin of undertaking projects. I have a few unfinished projects sitting on hard drives. I start out with an initial view of a project, it then changes as I undertake the project, I then have to re-evaluate what I am doing, reboot my own head to get into the new mode of things and basically edit to a different criteria. It can be difficult having the motivation to do this when it is just me working on a project.
A well respected great artist friend (who I am completely humbled by) has said of his work, which has dramatically changed/evolved throughout his life “you have to have a golden thread to your work, like a golden line running through all your work from one to the next, linking them together and yet allowing you to depart from the original but still being able to hang your ideas on that golden thread.” For me this is the perfect metaphore and has helped when undertaking projects to ensure I retain my vision of the overall project and have complete ownership of it.
There is truth in “there is a fear of success” which is why some people never finish projects, I sometimes suffer from this. My God what will happen if I succeed. Also having other people around to help sustain momentum is great, or working on collaborative projects, so the work is not just about yourself (navel gazing) can hep a huge amount. Certainly when trying to promote the finished project I find it really hard to get on the phone and say “Hey folks,Look at my great new project” I find it much easier when talking to people to promote the whole project as a collaborative project rather than concentrating on “me and my work”
Happy shooting one and all
ian
I have a problem (sorry for my English in advance), I never end my works because I never know when they are finished.
I am working in a long time project in Cuba, but, how can I know it is finished?!!! I always need more pictures, more situations, etc…..
ANDREA
You might want to re-read the photographers’ statement posted by Jeff and Eliza. They use no photoshop but instead “…shoot on large format or medium format film and manipulate the images using traditional darkroom techniques.”
Patricia
Yes I misread the text. I wonder if its because I’ve been on photoshop all day. Anyway if that’s the case then its the softness of the lens that bothers me. And the contrast and composition.
Ross
“It’s funny how much pull advertisers have in the mag world”
The bottom line IS the bottom line. The storys job is only to fill in the spaces between the ads. Just as television programming is only to fill the spaces between commercials. No ads=no revenue. No revenue=no job.
GORDON…
it might be a bit of an exaggeration that the “story’s only job is to fill in the spaces between the ads”, but it is certainly true that without advertising none of the great photography that has come from magazine and newspaper commissions would have been possible without it….
advertisers do want to accompany strong editorial material and they do not dictate content of that material but would certainly pull their support if the publication went way off track in their mind over a long period of time…i doubt the advertisers in the New York Times for example approve of all the editorial content or even their editorial page stance on politics etc, but overall they have decided the NYT a good place to sell their wares…i think generally it is a pretty good trade out between art and commerce…and please let me know if you can figure out a better way to support cultural, fashion, news and sports photography…
i am faced with it right here on our modest online Burn…i have rejected the concept of banner ads etc….because of this stance, i also have no money to support the photographers here who need support…so, no ads and no pictures on commission either….
i have had to rely on private donations for EPF etc…to give a photographer a commission for Burn, i would have to have sponsorship…i still reject the banner ad concept , but would surely consider corporate sponsorship of specific projects…this is still advertising of a certain type of course…
simply put , advertising has always been the engine that drove the production of all the great magazine essays you have ever seen with the exception of work produced from grants or from self producing photographers who had the funding to self produce…and , of course, shooting for the ads themselves has corrupted many and provided support for worthwhile projects for many others…
we all love to hate advertising….but, like everything, there are two sides…
cheers, david
I still say a good bag, designed and stamped by Mr. Harvey himself, could finance all of this with room to spare ;-)) Can’t think of anyone better to design the “perfect” camera bag (and perhaps the one camera, two lens bag as well). Might I suggest waxed canvas and a Seattle manufacturer we all know and love. The best bags out there are retrofitted, so what about a bag designed from the ground up that doesn’t scream, hey, rip me off, expensive camera stuff inside. Finding startup capital for this would be relatively easy I suspect …
Hurry though, there are signs the end is near … news flash today: Russian ministry bans Winnie the Pooh as extremist …
DAH
sent you an email
thanks,
marc
David; I’m not sure why the link didn’t work. But here it is again just in case;
http://www.lightstalkers.org/galleries/contact_sheet/18440
Thanks
YOUNG TOM….
i love waxed canvas, but alas it does not work on a hot day at the beach…becomes literally a sand magnet which sticks to the wax…nightmare….ok, back to the drawing board….yes, i think i could design two or three versions of the “perfect bag”…but, it would be expensive because i would want super lightweight material and waterproofed seams etc that get expensive to produce…but, if money is no object, then i really do have the ideal camera bag in mind…yes, let’s get our Seattle friends to make it…
cheers, david
Gordon;
Thanks for the comments. I’ve never been under any illusions regarding the need for advertisers, but the articles attract the readership numbers which in turn attract the advertisers. The turnover earned by most mags is usually around 80% advertising and 20% sales.
What I am seeing here in NZ is that mags are cutting back the quality of the writing/pics and doing more “advertorial” type articles. It can get a bit of a slippery slope, treat your readership like idiots and risk losing them. They also seem to be hiring an in-house writers to save money and to write those “advertorials”.
I was just interested in how much sway advertisers get on the bigger mags.
Cheers man
Howdy… McGowan here.
I’m documenting the progress of my show “I’m one of those Americans” for ArtPrize here in Grand Rapids, MI. It opens September 23rd. This documentation is covered in the journal on my site. Here you go:
http://www.humanfiles.com/welcome/this-is-not-a-photograph/
and see the frames here:
http://www.humanfiles.com/slideshows/frames.htm
Best of luck,
David
David McGowan……….
Dopeeeeeee slideshow
:)))))
Thanks Panos… long time!
Hey D..:)))
i knew you were “cooking” something…
something good!!!!
DAH
How´s this for the ideal camera bag material? A company called Cyclus in Bogota, Columbia make great looking and hugely practical bags out of recycled tire. I have used one of these bags for 2 years exclusively to shoot on the street. The rubber material has a very pleasing natural texture and feel; it´s waterproof, lightweight, highly resistant to, well, everything you can bump into, rub up against or scrape across, is very discreet, has well made strong closures, subtle detailing, zipper mesh pockets inside, cell phone pocket, unisex designs, and best of all, it´s GOOD FOR THE EARTH! Cyclus makes these in a multitude of shapes and sizes including some camera bags and might be willing to do custom. Here´s their website and catalog of products.
http://www.cyclus-col.com/
Best:
Kathleen
David, hadn’t thought of that tin cloth downside. Truly, you are the bagmaster, or would that be Bagwan?
In all seriousness, I hope you are serious. Great opportunity, and a huge market since everyone is a photographer now. It’s similar to the small-scale gold mining equipment manufacturers who may be the only ones getting rich from the new weekend gold fever resurgence. There is at least one other similar example I can think of …
Kathleen … good timing … :))
DAH
And no, haha, i don´t work for Cyclus! I first saw Rasta guys in Bocas del Toro, Panama making these bags and selling them on the street. Then i guess Cyclus saw the potential in this material and went all out. Kodak introduced them in their stores here in Costa Rica first. Now they´re hard to find here and when you do they´re in the hip boutiques. The bags are just totally cool and practical. Street thieves don´t give my bag a second look. Who would steal a bag made out of an old inner tube?
ok, well that´s a little background…
kathleen
Tom
I didn´t even see all the posts about this..i was just passing by and caught a little bit about camera bags and thought i´d toss in a plug for the good old inner tube. Hope i wasn´t intruding!?!? Ok, well, will just butt out now and go back to work..take care, ok?
best
Kathleen
Kathleen … of course you were not intruding, it’s a big open dance floor here :)) I was just remarking that we posted simultaneously. It was a great addition and never, ever butt out, ok? :))
Kat..:)
Actually those “rubber bags” look brilliant…
regardless…
i can barely afford napkins nowadays..
:)
Tom…:)
i just missed my train for Seattle…
Haik is there right now , with another co-pilot..
hey… i cant always get what i want… dang it
KATHLEEN…
all sounds good on the re-cycled tire bag, except i just cannot believe it is “lightweight”..rubber is heavy by nature…even the messenger bag i have that is lined with rubber is heavy….a few extra ounces multiplied by 12 hours on your shoulder does make a difference….anyway, i will check it out…i think it was before you joined us here that i used to give away camera bags here as prizes for the first reader to guess whatever i had posed as a puzzle or question…which means, i have way too many bags…yup, i stick to one camera, one lens…..and 100 bags!!! sick…
cheers, david
DAVID.. It’s a real delema BURN is in. Like you suggest, its always a balancing act and if a great rag like NYT can juggle credibility with those opposing forces then, well, it can be seen as a model.
BURN has become an important rejuvination to me..
maybe some of you guys are up for taking part in the stravaganza, this is the latest video, of the exhib in arles:
http://www
PETER….
comments like yours make this all worthwhile…if we can do a little something here to make your photographic life a bit better or more challenging or whatever, then that is enough….
cheers, david
DAH
Swear to god their lightweight! I shoot film and carry at least 16 rolls with every ASA i could possibly need for a day that will go from brilliant sunshine to pouring rain. I have a hand held Seconic light meter, either a RF or a very light vintage Nikon SLR with one lens, cell phone, umbrella, light jacket and a small change purse, all in the same bag. (sometimes i use my MF yashicamat instead of 35mm) And because they´re not a rigid construction they bulge out to accomodate extra stuff and still close because the buckle is adjustable. Sunday i walked up and down hills for 7 hours straight and shot 12 rolls and then walked 1k back home again. I´m in reasonable shape but i´m not a teenager and i´m not superwoman! I never once felt overloaded. My Cyclus bag measures 13¨ x 14¨ and weighs 1 lb. 8 oz. My Lowepro weighs 2 lbs. Do the math.
No, i wasn´t here when you were giving out camera bags. Very funny..you are ALL heart, David!
PANOS,
Oh yeah, they are too cool but i hear ya! I bought a Cyclus wallet as a gift for my son who had been using his own handmade duct tape wallets for 3 or 4 years. haha. he loved the Cyclus! Hey, have you ever thought of duct taping garbage bags into a camera bag? hmmm…
Best
Kathleen
KATIE,( Kiss Juliette,you boy and mama)
Can this Cyclus bag carry my bottle of ouzo and my olive oil???
Until I hear from you I will use my grandma’s handmade …laughing like Crazy :)))
When BURNIANS are united then not even the sky is the limit !!!
(or something like that)
P.S BAGS for photographers.PhotoBURN series M8,Holga…
and perfumes…PhotoBURN the smell of the darkroom.
Design by …
Let’s drink to our Seatle friends tonight…or today !!!
David,
I’ve just sent my e-mail again.
Please check it. :)))
JKaranka,
Extravaganza !!! I love the magnetic pavement …
David McGowan…September 23rd…lovely day !!!
Civi, it’s hard now to get news about Athens and the fires. Are they under control? Are you and your family and friends safe? We’ve been worried about you, dear friend. Take good care…
xxooo
Patricia
Welcome back
Kyunghee Lee !!!
Come on BURNIANS…We Want You …or shall I say…We Need You !!!
Our Patricia,
You are everywhere…my white eagle …love!!!
Thank you Universe…all the Civilians are o.k
beautiful, beautiful green oasis are gone…150 houses down…
We should have done our homework…Greeks need to focus …cause we are all over…
in our times…no mistakes are accepted…
THE GOOD NEWS:
Your Greek house is fine and now it’s a shelter for other Civilians who lost everything.
We shelter one family with 3 beautiful kids !!! You should be proud BURNIANS.
You PATRICIA,MR.HARVEY and other BURNIANS are my role models of what life with values should be…
ok, enough back to my olives …
LOVE, LOVE, LOVE
Civi;
I’m glad things are getting better over there. The fires reminded me of the horrific time our Aussie neibours suffered in February this year with 173 deaths.
Take care
We’ve often talked here on Burn about whether or not taking photos of wars, human suffering, environmental abuses, natural disasters and other “unpleasant” topics makes any difference at all to the course of events. Some have expressed the opinion that such topics should be avoided because our photos have no power to change minds or policies…not in times such as these where everyone just tunes such things out. Others believe that if photographers don’t show all sides of life we are adding to the problems by sticking our heads in the sand. They resonate with James Nachtwey’s statement on the home page of his website,”I have been a witness, and these pictures are my testimony. The events I have recorded should not be forgotten and must not be repeated.”
Today I was struck by an example of a photographer’s work touching a person who influences opinions. If you read Bob Herbert’s column in Tuesday’s NY Times, you will see what I mean. Be sure to click on the link to “2nd Tour, Hope I Don’t Die.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/25/opinion/25herbert.html
I’m not saying Bob Herbert’s column or Magnum photographer Peter van Agtmael’s photo book will change the course of events in Afghanistan, but I am saying that Peter’s photos are obviously making people think. And thinking can lead to action. Thank you, Peter.
Patrica
Civi, I posted before I’d read your words about the fires and how you are sheltering a family in Athens. You, dear one, live what you preach and that is LOVE. Big hugs to you and all who are suffering in your beautiful country. May healing rains drench your land so the only BURNing will be here…
love
Patricia
“but I am saying that Peter’s photos are obviously making people think. And thinking can lead to action” Well said Patricia.
“but I am saying that Peter’s photos are obviously making people think. And thinking can lead to action”
——————————————–
This can only be true if it makes people think who were not thinking before, IMO, Patricia. And in large numbers enough. Obviously Herbert is not in that category, being a columnist, therefore a thinker, both by inkling and by profession.
Then, having “thought”, what action can it be leading to? one of the very few concrete things Obama as candidate planned to do, and said repeatedly, was to switch a bigger part of the war effort from Irak to Afghanistan. Something that was rarely commented upon, even by the people who were “made to think” by Bush’s warmongering in Irak .
David mentionned a few days ago the fact that american people often do get the point (and eventually think), but rather too late than too soon, ie. when much harm has been done.
And so, it is again shown here (perhaps, maybe the hardening of the war is necessary, after all). But not just about the “american people”, from the supposedly more progressive americans amongst us, as well.
To these progressive americans, I would ask:
What is it that we must be made to think now that we couldn’t think of before, when we already had all the elements to think (namely, much graphic and horrific war reportage, as graphic as Peter’s, from Irak, and the avowed plan of a candidate to (re)deploy troops and extend combat).
CIVILIAN…
for all the good vibes and spirit you bring here to Burn, all of us now send our best back to you….i am trying now to think of a practical way we can help….perhaps donate the sales of one print to your family who has lost their home?? you take a really nice shot of this family and we auction it off?? i will bet that right here on Burn we could figure out a way to actually make photography do what so many say it can do…effect change…anything wrong with a small change?? as in helping this family??? you might just be the perfect person to make this happen…please give me some more details either here or by private email…
KATHLEEN…YOUNG TOM
Kat , you are now appointed the new buyer/marketing manager for Burn bags which will be a slight modification of the Cyclus bag and of course built by and sold by Cyclus…Young Tom you will be the distributor in the U.S…Civi can handle Europe…Vivek can open a store in Calcutta….and Kyunghee will have rubber bags flowing out her front door in Korea where we can REALLY sell them….my Korean friends are camera bag crazy…ok, corner offices for you both and generous stock options….no doubt we can sell bags easier than we can sell prints….ok, off on my bike…oh yes Kat i forgot to ask…any cross strap for bike riding?? gotta have a cross strap…..
cheers, david
The opposition is better at this shootin and killing stuff than the so called allies, the silly buggers go to the middle east and find that it ain’t the fun and games they thought it was. Hard lesson for the young kids to learn…….
HERVE…PATRICIA
let me see if i can get Peter in here to chat with us…he is a pretty regular Burn reader anyway….his new book is quite strong …i am sure you know he split from Columbia University when he was 24 to take a look at Iraq….
IMANTS…
yes, of course you are right…it was the same in Vietnam which should have been a lesson, but obviously wasn’t…….anybody fighting on their home turf and with a righteous cause in their minds can beat any foreign army where the troops often have no idea exactly where they are, the history, the politics, or why they are really there…..sadly, some soldiers do make “fun and games” out of it…i hear stories from my war photographer friends that i will not repeat here since i cannot substantiate….but , they are the same stories, more or less, that i heard from Vietnam correspondents…there is a very very dark side of human nature that i often pretend is not there…but, it is…
cheers, david
The job pays better than driving trucks, plus there is room to really test the rules. Mind you the Afghans are pretty seasoned fighters like these guys http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/ It all adds for a pretty harsh life for all concerned
KYUNGHEE LEE…
i have searched every which way for your emails and find nothing for the last two months…something weird happening…again, please try: david@burnmagazine.org this box is fairly clear….so sorry for this inconvenience….
cheers, david
David,
I’ve just sent my e-mail again.
Please check it.
I pray for safe reception. :)))
I don’t know why…
If you don’t recive my mail this time… I will send CD by mail to you.
I have found a great use for redundant camera bags….. storing redundant camera equipment….
KYUNGHEE….
nothing….i wrote you this morning…did you try to just reply on the email i sent you?? try that please…this does not make any sense at all…i have no email from you on any of my four accounts since may….
cheers, david
David,
I’ve just sent e-mail to you as you said (reply on the email you sent me).
I tried 2 ways…
One is … only my letter.
The other is … my letter with my portfolios(zip file).
I wonder if the file is too heavy to deliver.
So I tried 2 ways.
So sorry… ㅠㅠ
DAH… Have you received any of my emails? I’ve been trying to reach you ever since you mentioned a possible look at my work.
VELIBOR…
yes, i have your emails and just wrote you a note…sorry for the delay…
Thanks… received and replied.
Anton
I can’t seem to find the “older comments” link
David Alan
“it might be a bit of an exaggeration that the “story’s only job is to fill in the spaces between the ads”,
More than a bit of exaggertion, but I was just trying to make the point that if you get paid for being published in a commercial publication, the money in your pocket comes directly from the advirtisers.
Money helps things happen. I fear Burn will burn out unless it gains some financial footing. I’m sure you have some ideas as to how that may happen, and if it can without commercial sponsorship that would be great. It is also clear that you have huge passion for this project, but it would be good to get paid to do it as well. A paid staff person would be very helpful. It would also be good if the photographers published here were compensated some way. Perhaps the gallery will be succesful in that regard.
I would actually have no problem seeing banner ads on Burn, in fact I would encourage it. I’m sure there is a tasteful way it could be done.
I remember some earlier plans to sell T-shirts and the like with the Burn logo to assist with funding. Perhaps using a service such as Cafepress could be be used to streamline the process and prevent having to manage an inventory.
GORDON…
you are correct on all counts…with just a few more people, we could really make Burn sing…i have also written many times that my plan is to have photographers compensated at better than current editorial rates IF we can get the sponsorship…we are going to make a big push this fall for just such sponsorship…we will most likely also partner with the new Magnum/Magnet online company to create an umbrella for several Magnum photographers to have individual “channels”….that way anyone published here on Burn will be seen on the Magnum channel…
in any case, if there is money, it will go to the Burn photographers…so far, every dollar taken in has gone right back out to photographers here on Burn….
please remember, what funding we have taken in has already gone to three photographers:Sean Gallagher $5,000. to finish his China book, Alejandro Chiekelsburg $10,000 to finish his High Tide book and Jen Ackerman $2,000 to work on her prisons book….all funding to create new work….Sean and Alejandro did it through the EPF, but i arbitrarily gave Jen her funding after she submitted to the Inge Morath award, but did not receive it…. the Inge Morath award and the EPF are both part of the Magnum Cultural Foundation , a non-profit subsidiary of Magnum…
i have Burn funding in the bank from generous donors here to already sponsor equivalent projects for either later this year or early next…..so, we are doing something…we just need to do more…..and , yes, Anton and i need to at least be able to pay our rent….sponsorship could do it…the gallery idea is probably just a break even business game at best, but i think we will find out in the coming weeks….
we do have some very tasteful design ideas for sponsors of Burn to be attached to specific projects and essays….using both legendary and emerging photographers….with a ratio of one legend, three emerging…..
JUSTIN…
i think we set up with Cafepress way back when you first read about it…we just never put it here on the site…frankly, i forgot all about it because it started out as sort of a joke….but for sure, i have seen a few Burn t-shirts around….Anton is now in Japan, but when he returns next week maybe we should discuss getting that up officially…thanks for the reminder…
cheers, david
Dearest MR.HARVEY and ALL BURNIANS,
there is one and only one thing that this family asked from me.
They want their photos albums…their memories…
but there is no way to recover them…
PHOTOGRAPHERS …pay attention…Civilians love their “photos”
It’s quite painful…
but we are optimistic…the government will respond (let’s see) as fast as they can.
I have lot’s of olive oil and chicken ( for real).
The kids love the BURN photos and we can all relate with the “wall of death”…
I have seen that many times …and one day when you will visit me here in Greece, remind me to tell you
about my traumatic experience …
“…you take a really nice shot of this family and we auction it off?? …”
they don’t feel to be photographed right now…I respect their wish…
and I am hell of a good iphone photographer…
laughing hysterically
THANK YOU
THANK YOU
THANK YOU
THANK YOU
THANK YOU
that’s from the family
and THANK YOU from me…Your good energy is all we need …
and before I go off to the chickens…
MR. HARVEY, I need a favor…
Can you please call Socrates and tell her Thank you…
Love from C.
Please, don’t forget. I would appreciate !!!
civilian the great.. really..
good luck to them n you.
star
CIVILIAN…
i understand totally…well, let us know if there is anything else we can do for either the homeless family or for you….and of course i will call Socrates and give your special message…she would be the first person on the planet to figure out a way to aid your family if she knew of this conversation or their plight…
cheers, david
DAH,
Sweet! I found a link to the CafePress Burn store via one of Anton’s old posts:
http://www.cafepress.com/burnstore
My initial search for Burn Magazine on CafePress turned up this gem :-)
http://t-shirts.cafepress.com/item/burn-mag-bring-it-the-fuck-on-long-sleeve/58473804
Gotta love that slogan on the back!
Dear MR.HARVEY,
yes, I want to THANK Socrates for “producing ” a heart of gold…
P.S We are doing great for now. Spirits are high …we even think to donate some chickens to BURN :)))
WHAT NOT TO LOVE !!!
DaVIDB,
Is our baby walking??? Give us an update…kiss Beate…put the baby photos in a safe…
Life is full of surprises…LOVE
BURNIANS ENJOY LIFE …LOVE YOUR FAMILY…tell them how much you care …
Goodnight from Europe
and GOODNIGHT
E.Kennedy
and goodnight
Ellie Greenwich…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-0upHlWfQ4&feature=related
goodnight all
This is freakin awesome!!! Madonna is here in Bucharest for the first time ever giving a concert and I can hear her perfectly right out the window of my apartment! There’s something like 100,000 people over at the parc in front of Ceausescu’s palace less a half mile as the crow flies fro me! She’s singing “Get into The Groove” right now. I guess this is another good part about having moved to Bucharest! It’s been wall to wall coverage on tv here with video of her private Gulf Stream jet landing and her drive to the hotel from the airport. She received death threats in Serbia and has hired 400 elite Romanian private security guards here. Madonna symbolizes 80s America for me and growing up in that era, but it’s amazing how hip she is at 51. She just keeps innovating!
Davin; Enjoy, I think you deserve it!
And now this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6I5hb9p7Y0&feature=related
Madonna 51? Hell; I’m still getting used to the thought that the ultimate rocker (and one of my heroes) Keith Richards is 65!
Classic Stones
Justin, thanks for the BURN t-shirt link. Sure wish they were cheaper, but hey, BURN aint’t cheap.
BURN,BURN,BURN
Ross: Keith and the Stones rule!
Davin; I’m a huge Who fan too and got to see them for the first time this year, a real buzz to see Pete come on the stage with the opening lick of “Can’t Explain”! They hadn’t been here since 69, and me being 6 at the time, couldn’t attend!
I can remember my mum getting annoyed when I put my sisters 45 of See me, Feel me on the record player (I was 7 or 8). She told me it was SUCH a disgusting song. Hmmm, times have changed & I still wind her up about it! :-))
Ross, yes, live concerts are pretty awesome. I had been gone abroad and had forgotten that Madonna was coming. But I really could hear the whole concert pretty well. It’s sort of amazing as her current tour was the highest grossing tour worldwide last year. She flies around from concert to concert on her private $50 million jet and 58 trucks carry the equipment and stage! After Sofia, Bulgaria where she gives a concert on Saturday, they will fly everything to Isreal for concerts next Tuesday and Wednesday! They use five 747 transports to do the job I have heard! Just amazing how long she has been at the top of her game.
And who can forget that Woodstock happened 40 years ago… It’s amazing how these things stick in your mind. I was 6 but can vividly remember it on TV, coming from a very conservative farming area Woodstock seemed like another world to me. The only thing that came close was staying up to watch the Sex Pistols on TV for the first time…
My other burning memory of the time (I was 9) was the helicopters hovering over the US Embassy at the end of the Vietnam War…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIvs4j4IniA
Davin; Any chance she can loan you a few of those bodyguards? :-)
If you listen to concerts from just outside the arena here they say you are in the “Scotsman’s Stand”!!
dellicson,
all right… all right… man it’s ok if you think madonna is HOT!
but dont laugh at me if i think rick springfield’s ON FIRE at 59!!!
(thx for the links)
PAUL…
that price for the Burn t-shirts is set by Cafepress…
DAH,
thanks so much for at least peeking at my email. i dont have another pairing at the moment but once i have more i will put them all in an email. i feel like i had to explain that last picture but i get it if it does not stand by itself without the text then the picture overall does not work.
thanks again
Madonna is amazingly fit due to pilates.
David, did you say price set by congress? Laugh, laugh. I can most likely get a better deal out here in the boonies. Lots of deals to be made in the Great Recession. Let me know. I’m thinkin’ bumper stickers, camera bags, coaster, hats,CF cases, thumb-drives, don’t forget the umbrella’s. Hey, a buck is a buck.
DAH: Is there really a full frame digital Leica M coming out in a week?!
Ross, I don’t remember Woodstock but I do remember the Fall of Saigon. Strange how that is such a vivid childhood memory and little did I know that in just a few years one of those orphans handed up to the Marines in the helicopter perched on the embassy roof would become one of my best friends. Thanh Cao and I lost touch during the high school years but the last I heard he was himself was a U.S. Marine serving in Asia.
old man hyde! ))))
seems like u and I have similar tales to tell…(but no time now to write about vietnam, childhood, memories, friends), but only this: 3 books for you to read….i read them all last year, all of the broke my heart:
1) Catfish and Mandala: Andrew Pham (great great book)
2) The Eaves of Heaven: Andrew Pham (one of the BEST books ever written about what vietnam meant (the country) and what it was like to grow up as a vietnamese and live and die through 3 wars (war with french, civil war and the war with americans)…the story of his father…..i read it in 2 days and wept often….extraordinary…i recommended it to John vink last year…dont know if he read it
3) The Father of All Things: Tom Bissell: again, heart breaking…smart, funny, brilliant…not as great as Eaves, but…still wonderful…
these are all ‘new’ books, and i wont mention all the other ‘old’ classics…but, please read Eaves and Catfish…especially considering your friendship with your friend Thanh Cao
hugs
bob
Tom; Well we only had one tv channel in NZ in those days so there was really no way to miss what was going on! NZ was very “British” and conservative in those days, especially where I lived, a rural farming area.
Also; I’m the second to youngest child in our family, the oldest 10 years older than me. So I tended to listen to the music they were listening to; CCR, Stones, Who, Beatles etc. so had an affinity for that 60’s and 70’s rock. And because of that, at high school we were SO disparaging to those that listened to the Bee Gees and Abba…
Tom; Sorry; forgot to mention, an amazing story about Thanh Cao.
DAVIN…
i have been a bit of the loop the last few weeks, but i did get a wink from a high up Leica person that the full frame was coming soon…but, i did not know next week….i hope they give me one to test as they did with the M8…surely i cannot afford one….if it is fast and full frame , then i would really love to work with it…no other camera truly feels like an extension of my body as does a Leica…why wouldn’t it?? i started with a Leica at 14 (bought used with my paper route money) and so much of my most important work is with the M6….before the M6, i was married to the Nikon FE2 for many stories in color…the M6 with the built in meter allowed me to work in color for the first time with a Leica..prior , it had been just a black & white camera…i never talk tech here on Burn…but, a full frame digi Leica??? gotta have one….well, since i am talking brands as never before, i have to say that i am now working mostly with both the Fuji 6×9 and the Mamiya VII in both black & white and color neg and some work with the Nikon D700 (also a great camera)……just for the record, no camera company pays me to say anything about their wares, although i have done two Nikon ad campaigns as a straight up commission….i have done no ads for Leica, but they have consistently and kindly allowed me to test their newest offerings….i bought the Fuji and Mamiya….i have never used a Canon for any length of time, but i know they are terrific cameras….always wanted to give Olympus a try…ok, nuff nuff tech tech…oh yes yes, i must mention another true love…POLAROID…SX70….mucho work with this particularly during the era of a short lived sx70 black & white….now have an instant Fuji..kind of a toy camera, but i love toys….
cheers, david
David;
Do you think that yourself or a photographer like Bill Allard would have ended up with such distinctive styles if you/he had access to the crazy high iso’s that we have now? Mr Allard’s use of slow shutter speeds etc seems to have come directly from having to use low iso’s like 25 and 64 and fast lenses. Whereas now 1600 is no biggie.
I’m not saying that it made anyone a better or worse photographer, just how it influenced style. And I am not tryong to start a film/digi debate…. :-) just how it was an influence on style
Cheers
Or how about this one :-))
http://leicarumors.com/2009/08/25/leica-m6-sultan-of-negeri-brunei-darussalam-silver-jubilee-24ct-gold-edition-ebay-madness.aspx/
I just have to give a shout-out of joy that today I uploaded my final edition of Falling Into Place to Blurb.com and AM FINALLY FINISHED!!! At least with this phase of the book-making process. Fourteen and a half months have passed since I took my first self portrait for this project, and I must say it has been a truly amazing journey. Yes, it takes perseverance to take this path, but it’s deeply satisfying as well. I have learned so much about myself–shadow and light–and have been helped every step of the way by DAH and this community. You believed in me before I believed in myself, and helped me develop as a photographer. Seeing your work and hearing your discussions have opened me to new ways of seeing and thinking, not just about photography but about life. For this I will always be grateful.
I feel as though I’ve now done what I can do with this project, and from here on out I’ll try to remain open to whatever comes. Life is such an adventure!!!
Patricia
Ross … that and music in the late 70s and 80s for the most part … well … just sucked! So yeah, I listened to the music of the previous g-g-g-generation myself, and a lot of blues, a little bluegrass. Having older brothers didn’t hurt. Always a big Stones fan, and Little Feet, Dylan, Young and more obscure, etc …. Feel fortunate to have seen a lot of the greats up close, and skipped the awful trends. Glad it was easy to get into bars at a young age back then.
ROSS…
yours is an intelligent tech question that does if fact relate to a way of working if not directly leading to a style…for many years both Bill and i worked with very slow asa transparency films…i used Kodachrome II, later 64 (my fast film) and finally Velvia 50 (Cuba work)…i did have a fast 1.2 35mm lens which allowed me to work in very dark situations just by learning to hand hold at even a quarter of a second…many of my pictures are actually “almost sharp”….ironically i never felt limited…actually felt empowered by the simplicity of it…limitations if viewed in the right way are freedoms….there is certainly a “look” to slow transparency film shot in “too dark” to work conditions…the color palate is something that cannot quite be duplicated with anything i do in digi with the almost unlimited high iso’s…i did sometimes introduce a small strobe (25 buck amateur flash) …certainly this is all a part of “style”…i have said this before , but it is always worth repeating…with film you always move FORWARD….with digi, there is a tendency to go BACK…easy to get satisfied when actually you should keep going going going….with digi i must force myself to not be happy with what i see on the back of the camera..that instant gratification is dangerous….film is by nature more deliberate….or maybe it is just sentimental …..hmmmmmm
cheers, david
David;
Provia 100 was my fast film, when really daring pushed it to 200… So much faster than Velvia shot at 40 :-) Mind you, i’m a boring old bugger; an old FM2 and a 35mm lens and I’d be as happy as a pig in the proverbial!
…….. one goes foreward onward, helter skelter all over the place….. with film there seems to be a physical presence and about photography/life as we know it, digital places image making on a new level of “about thinking”
YOUNG TOM…
do you know the Edgewater Inn in Seattle?? used to be a pretty seedy “fish from your window” hotel favored by all the rock bands that came to town…once upon a time i stayed at the Edgewater for a couple of months..hung with David Bowie (Ziggy Stardust i should say) , Cat Stevens, and the Arrowsmith party on my floor was something to remember if i could remember it…..i got to some crazy point that if i was not back stage talking to Sting or Mick or Bob or whomever , i did not even want to go to the concert…press pass or nothing…yea, also lots of bad material then, and yet some of it lives on…i always wonder what Jim Morrison would be like now had he lived…but, then again, honestly, i guess he had to go young…..no point to be made here…just rambling….sorry..so, do you know the Edgewater?? still there??
cheers, david
PAUL: I agree that the Burn-branding could be extended to wide number of items. With each purchase we will be supporting Burn (with any profits above procurement costs) and building awareness, plus we get s acool item with the Burn logo :-)
DAH: One of the most refreshing things I find about Burn is the lack of tech-talk and the concentration on work and the process, but I think it is relevant to discuss the craftsman’s tools if it is indeed an integral part of the process. I’ve always liked this passage from my beloved National Geographic Field Guide, which quoted you speaking of the advantages of using a Leica over large SLR’s: “I don’t look like a professional and that gives me greater access. When sitting with a group on the porch, I can shoot with one hand while drinking coffee and they barely realize I am working.”
david…
reading
your memories,
your cameras of choice,
the edgewater….
is
oh
so
delicious…..
thank you….
xox
JUSTIN…
i think Natgeo changed my words from “cold beer” to “coffee”..well, it is a family magazine…
IMANTS…
your statement is intelligent and provocative and i certainly see why you see digi as “about thinking” whereas, as you say, film is physical and might tend to have us see “life as we know it”…
when i press the shutter, i am 90 percent done..when you press the shutter you have 90 percent of your work to do…your work involves a lot of post production, graphic design and music….surely “about thinking”….i am more “in the moment” and reactive as in intimacy…a lot goes on in my head in just a few milliseconds when actually shooting although my “thinking” has taken place prior….i do not know whether you conceptualize before or after shooting, but it does not matter….it works.
anyway, yes i suppose one does go onward helter skelter…surely the beauty of it all….
cheers, david
David,
Hell yeah! I like “cold beer” all the much better.
DAH, All –
I think I may have an excellent low-cost solution. For putting the name on Tshirts, sweat shirts, the bum of some sweat pants… Posters?
solution – Silkscreen or even cooler – woodblock print.
I have some people I can talk about it to – and I think if the clothes were supplied and maybe a bit of money to pay for supplies and maybe buy a big mac or two…
Well to cut to the chase – At my university, there is an entire printmaking area to do this sort of thing and some students REALLY enjoy it and go off and start doing art posters and shirts for people having art shows in the area — there is even a group (not from here) called the Drive By Press – they’ve done band shirts for groups like Blue October and what have you… I interviewed them for a caption on a photo for a newspaper article when they visited Green Bay.
Plus this would also involve other artists! what do you think? Should we talk in private about it?
I see it this way 100% of the image is done once I press the shutter and then it has the opportunity to have another role. Taking the photo is important and a process I enjoy, the thinking before, having a concept and watching it change, be destroyed, rebuilt discarded,grow, alter course, placed in limbo from shot to shot. Then they sit there (some I have never looked at) eventually the images get squeezed, prodded, choked set free as discards, imprisoned in a frame, sent to the wonders of the www, they make new friends retaliate against others………. they get to breathe. Sometimes I don’t shoot an image for months
The book I am putting together starts with a 3 year old image followed by a 12 year old then a couple from last year, followed by something borrowed then on from a few weeks ago……… then something regurgitated etc
here is a first draft taste from 6 months ago http://www.etrouko.com.au/etroubook.htm
David,
I understand you don’t want to focus too much on tech issues but I’d be very curious to
hear why the M8 didn’t work for you or fit your needs given that film M’s were such a key part
of your working style.
Best,
Mark
David, yes the Edgewater is still there, next to the new cruise ship terminal, full of white tennies and Bermuda shorts. Not the same place at all. While I only caught glimpses of the last of it, the wonderful old funky Seattle is mostly gone I’m afraid, like the old Vegas, the old Venice! (and why I appreciate Panos work so much … he’s getting the last of it), etc … seems like we’ve embraced sterile shadows of real life, and gone to the condos. I could be wrong I suppose, Charles would know better than I since I get to the city infrequently, but it seems we’ve polished the grit and the sweat and the reality out of so many treasures that there is little left but empty shells of sameness with retro plastic facades so we can tell them apart. I do, however, know a wonderful tavern down by the docks where the crabbers hang and tell stories of crossing the bar in 30 ft. seas … but it ain’t in Seattle. There are still places on the fringes here that are still real …
Hanging backstage talking to Mick and Bob? Bloody hell David, you have a good life. Always wanted to hang backstage with a camera, the real backstage before and after the show but I imagine with promoters and lawyers and all manner of the unmusical in the music Business oiling the treadmills today, those days are likely over as well. I always liked Graham Nash’ work backstage with the camera … real … hmmm, I think I was born at the wrong time …
Now I’m rambling … ‘night …
Ross, I work with an old nikon F3 (my old FM2 is dead), a 35mm lens and a 50mm lens, i’m a boring girl too.
Civil, hope all are well for you et your family…
“”Always wanted to hang backstage with a camera, the real backstage before and after the show but I imagine with promoters and lawyers and all manner of the unmusical in the music Business oiling the treadmills today, those days are likely over as well.”” ………..not quite, but you have to do it for yourself. No one is interested in publishing the stuff anymores. There is also a trust issue. Too many people have been burned by the dickhead with a cameraphone backstage taking the cocaine ‘money shot’ and selling it on. I still get invited to do quite a lot of backstage stuff because they know i do it for the ‘pictures’ and that i aint gonna take the cheap shot. if you look through my ‘backstaging’ set there is some nice moments there, and that is just a tiny part of the archive. Maybe a dozen of them have been used commercially (ie I got paid), all the rest are just for the love of doing it.(which means that they will remain in boxes in my darkroom :) )
john
re cameras. 90% of the work i do for me is on a battered old r6.2 with a 24mm on. 90% of the work i do for pay is on state of the art canon dslrs with lots and lots of expensive glass on. One pays for the other.
DAVID…hi
I’ve noticed you have an interest in Cambodia.. I’ve just scanned some pictures I photographed during the 98′ election when I was first trying to live in Asia as a stringer. Lasted for 1 year. 97 – 98 until i got kicked out of Indonesia a week before Suharto was ousted in 98. Went back to Sydney to try and earn some money.
If you get time i have just loaded them on PHOTOSHELTER on my home page pa.photoshelter.com/user/petergrantphotograph
I’ve only just started really to dig out some of my images and get them scanned … trying to come up with something for Magnum expression award..
Picked a used copy of Cuba for £7 postage inclusive ;-)
Ah, the Edgewater. Back when I photographed small insignificant planes painted blue we would be there during Seafair. What a great place. Seem to remember someone there saying that the term skid row came from there, but I did smell lots of JP5 back then.
PETER GRANT…
how did you notice i had an interest in Cambodia??
yes, i went into Kampuchea with the North Vietnamese Army in the early 80″s and held my breath as teams uncovered deep holes 150 feet wide with up to 400 rotting bodies in them…blindfolded and with crushed skulls having been bludgeoned to death (why waste a bullet?) often by their own children who were mesmerized by the policies of Pol Pot…yes, a double page spread and in depth story under the Natgeo editorship of W. E. Garrett….by going back later this year, i will try to get this smell from the mass graves out of my nostrils which does not seem to go away after all these years …
IMANTS…
well, yes then our back end process is the same in terms of the photographs taking on a new life after shooting…the way you are thinking about pictures taking on “a new role”, albeit not the only role, is exactly how i view it as well…i think we have all seen the link you just posted several times before and actually was thinking we were going to publish that one here instead of Mute….i too often have in the sequence of a book or show pictures which are many years apart…i think this is pretty much the same for many photographers….all that matters is the final print, or book, or show…how any of us “get there” is irrelevant to the viewer…
JONI KARANKA….
well, then you got an incredible deal…and , laughing, it shows us once again that photography, books, prints, etc is all about “perceived value”…i do know that last month our agent in Tokyo sold a used signed copy of the same book for approximately $900…if we meet, i will sign it, and you may have made a very good investment….i will give you 10 pounds for it right now….deal??
cheers, david
Precise dates about Cambodia?
PS: The “why waste a bullet” is a chinese thing. The purpose of bludgeoning was discretion, not economics…
Oh and “mesmerized”? They had no real other choice…
It was all about fear…
And it is going on today…
But then some of todays leaders were former KR…
……yea the link has been up for a while, though these are part of the final images, so there are changes from what was before.
I made the mistake, well it turned out for the best of creating the book for the net thus small jpegs and not printable. Having to redo every image gave me the chance to take the book into a new direction, consolidate and it became really enjoyable time with the chance to befriend and savour the images as they unravelled. I guess that is the beauty of digital one no longer has to complete a project and a stray is always welcome………
JOHN VINK…
well, amigo you are THE expert…and i totally defer to your more complete knowledge…after all you live there, and i was but a brief visitor….i am quite sure it was all about fear and not just the “philosophy” of Pol Pot…i was told at the time that they simply did not want to waste the bullets, but i can imagine that some twisted form of discretion could have been it too…although killing hundreds at a time can hardly be considered “discreet”….hard for me to imagine that some of today’s leaders are former KR…i know it of course , but find it “hard to believe”…i look forward to talking to you later this fall (this time in Cambodia with a real visa and legal!!) and getting the whole so so complex story straight in my head….but for sure, the Cambodia of today is obviously still reeling from the events of 30 years ago…my dates there?? hmmmm, i will have to go look it up…will let you know soonest…
5 mins later….google says i was there in 1981…story published in 1982 “Kampuchea Awakens from a Nightmare”
cheers, david
IMANTS…
is this the handmade book you intend to make?? i could see it going as both a handmade version AND a published version….
Yes I am looking to do a handmade version of this, so far the trial prints have come up with the goods there is something about this one off version that a published version will not come near. Once all the images are all finalised, I will hawk it to a publisher/printer I know, still this costs. I am not interested in blurb lulu etc as I have a specific paper in mind plus a limited published version. Finances permitting here……. Then I just get on with the next one which is started ……. “Being paranoid”
…..this one is about “finding a way as a child ….. reoccurring nightmares …….. and….. “lets not be too cynical”
I do have this sea of books as well http://etrouko.com.au/art/books.jpg
DAH
The precise dates question was only on your presence this fall…
we all look at the same thing i different way. For me Cambodia is a place of changing. I feel the same on Cuba and I know this feeling after 89′ in Poland. It’s some kind of magical hope, hope for changes, for bright future. It’s about how people behave. Mysterious time. Very value.
But I know nothing about Cambodia.I am just visitor, a turist as always.
Hope the changes will have a good directions.
MARCIN…
yes, i agree…surely Cambodia is in a time of change…although we just read from John Vink that some atrocities are still going on today….this i did not know….
Cuba is a bit different….at least certainly in the sense of blood spilled…Castro’s revolution was relatively bloodless and not the deep cultural revolution of Pol Pot ….in Cuba, lots and lots of exiles and some opposition either executed or in jail for sure, but there was not a wholesale mass slaughter as in Kampuchea…
you have to remember that Fidel FIRST tried to partner with the U.S…got some of his funding for his revolution from some of the wealthy who lived around Central Park in New York…Fidel lived at the Theresa Hotel in Harlem…..some of his most loyal followers still have U.S. passports like photographer Roberto Salas who had a New York studio before joining the revolution…it was only when Che nationalized the banks and other companies that the U.S. broke with Fidel…the first year of the revolution in Cuba was all friendly friendly with the U.S. government and probably the CIA helped him in some ways overthrow Batista…Fidel did come to Washington early on with open arms…wanted 400 tractors to be donated by the U.S. to get his agriculture program going…you must wait they said…he felt rebuffed, his machismo maligned…was told his English not so good…he went back to Cuba and looked again…he saw the open door the Soviet Union was offering…he needed funding…so, sometimes the juxtaposition of political philosophy and money are flexible to say the least…
cheers, david
Oh, yes David, Cuba and Cambodia are incomparable but both have this hope. Cuba waiting for changes. They waiting for new world should will come soon. The same as Cambodia. I am sure Cuba waiting. All of them. Even communists.
But of course it is my impression. And maybe only mine.
JOHN VINK…
ok,laughing…well, i will have to look that one up too!! i think either the second or third week of november…will you be there??
IMANTS…
of course a blurb style book does not make sense at all for your work.. you MUST have a Smithson sewn binding and the proper weight and paper surface and reproduction values etc etc…as you say, nothing will beat the handmade version, but i think we can find a good limited edition publisher for you…your “sea of books” is clearly an exhibition waiting to happen…
cheers, david
And while perhaps you are in the region David… you did say to one of my compatriots you might swing past my part of the world as well…perhaps you would be able to indulge in a Mojita or two if you do?
BTW I am not so sure atrocities can be regulated by timelines or the style in which they occur, I believe they happen because good men do little to prevent them… a moral viewpoint is often the hardest to defend…
Just amazing! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4U6T_BB1N8&feature=fvst
civilian..
tor capa has been walking about leaning on tables for about 6 weeks..
today though he stood, arms by side and unaided for the first time.. watching ‘postman pat’
he’s much better at standing and walking when something else is occupying him.. when he’s not thinking about it too much..
a bit like taking photographs really :o)
d
Madonna really is great, so American: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNdxbWXmH3U&feature=related
dellicson …….many thnks…….. fr sharing the wing suit video ……. really intriguing stuff
if we meet, i will sign it, and you may have made a very good investment
—————————–
Which reminds me, David, to have you signed “VIRGINIA” (yes, yes, yes, yes, yes!) when you come next month in SF. It should be worth something, I have the feeling that’s the only copy you will ever sign….. If I wring your arm enough, in the name of friendship! :-)))
—
I do not think John Vink means that children are coerced by fear, or else, to kill their parents nowadays. Just that there is still too many crimes from the powerful that never come close to being investigated seriously, let alone brought to justice (where $$ and connections rig the putcome).
Karajan, the conductor, had a nazi membership, Kurt Waldheim too of course (head of the UN for a long time). Werner Von Braun was one of the many “nazi” engineers scooped up by the US at WW2’s, and one of the great architects of the moon landing/walking. His german WW2 activity include running armements factories using slave labors. That’s the way the world function, it does not have to mean that the societies where these people regain some power, some influence are genocidal, murderous ones.
Hun Sen, Cambodia’s strongman was a KR commander, wo escaped the KR to flee to Vietnam (John, if I say that in many Cambodians mind, his vietnam connection is worse than having been a KR, am i wrong?), and was put in power by invading Viet forces.
There are 2 ways to look at places like Cambodia: “Look what they come from, not perfect but better”, and “why shoudn’t they deserve better after all they went thru?”. Which is all talk. And a 3rd way. Do something. Work in one’s modest capacity to help one cambodian, one kid there, to get a better hold of its future, put the means in their head (not just their stomach or hands) to strive towards that.
The big question (I have my idea…)is: why has there been so much help and $$ given, so much NGO presence, with a 20 year running record, moreover in a country with barely 15 million souls (more than half under 21, I think), and poverty still rhymes with endemic?
Why when you put a lake into a pond, the result looks like a drop in the sea?
vivek: yeah, it’s amazing, I just think the margin for error is kind of slim. If the wall or terrain below doesn’t fall away fast enough as you drop diagonally at over 100 mph, you’d end up dead real quickly.
it does not have to mean that the societies where these people regain some power, some influence are genocidal, murderous ones.
————————
Sorry, the drift was more like:
It does not mean that these societies ……are the worse for it.
Brent’s Essay is impressive – I find the lack of emotion interesting… an interesting story – not something I’ve ever seen before.
Dear David,
I’ve made my galleries of new essays(6 pieces- Tokyo, Beijing, Paris, Oslo, New York, and Sydney) at Photoshelter. And invite you to that gallery in Photoshelter … So you can see it.
Please check it.
Many many thanks,
Kyunghee Lee
DAH: November? Where else would/could I be?
Hervé: you’re right about the vietnam vs. KR connection of Hun Sen.
When I mentioned about fear: it was fear which made children spy upon their parents and have them killed during the KR regime. It is fear today which prevents people (luckily not all) of speaking up against mismanagement, corruption, injustice.
Those in power at the time knew and those in power today know about the fear the cambodian people carry within.
As to your final question: I don’t have an answer which would satisfy me and maybe you… But I don’t think it is guilt feelings which opens donors wallets.
@david: feel free to sign it, but it will take more than a pint and a tenner to get it out of my hands now ;-) and yes, the market price of books is amazingly varied… there always seem to be a few copies gathering dust in a small bookshop or warehouse, even when the price on abe or amazon might be going for hundreds (amazon lists now satellites at $180, when still a year ago you could get a copy at a reasonable price!)
Hi all –
In case people were following my iPhone Photojournalist blog, I’ve just moved it – http://www.iphonephotojournalist.org
Ok, that’s all!
HERVE…
you have a copy of Virginia?? how in the world did you even know about it?? my oh my….i think i told you that even HCB had a really bad commissioned book (color ,can you believe it?) on France….please do not look for any more of my skeletons in the closet…there are others….shhhhhhh….
PJ HOGGERS…
are you in OZ?? yes, i might swing by….if so, then yes a few indulgences would be just fine…
cheers, david
DAH, What about “Tell it like it is” any copies of that floating around?
DAH, Should clarify my last post, not that I think by any means its a skeleton in the closet, just that I have been looking on ebay for over a year with no luck. I think it was your first well earned brake was it not?
DAVID
Batten down the hatches… looks like another one is headed your way.
KURT….
Tell It Like It Is is not a skeleton, but a book of pride for me….not a commissioned book and my first personal project of any depth….there are only 4 copies in my possession and only 1 other copy that i know about….anybody who finds another one somewhere (there were i think only 500 printed) would do well to hang on to it, but i doubt any exist…the new darkroom i am building right now will be used primarily to print for 15-25 handmade copies of Off For a Family Drive and probably the same for Tell It…both will also be part of the mainstream version of Family Drive….
cheers, david
John V..
I’ve only spent a few months in Cambodia during 97′ and again during 98′, and what struck me most was the sweet fear the average Cambodian showed, almost, offered up, like a humble sacrifice.. Which struck me so much deeper realizing the violence that can come from such a soul.
Hi David..
Sorry to hear you saw and experienced what you did.. Yes, I can imagine it must feel like a strange place in your memory. So extreme were the consequences of such ideology + place & time. don’t know how else to think about it??
Since it’s a bit quiet here tonight I thought I’d combine a bit of music with some shameless self promotion… Here’s the Who song that inspired my new youth project!!!
Some may be interested watching this, following Brent’s essay, some commentaries are provided by P. Blenkinsop. The video is linked in the opening post at:
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Video-Por-Tek-Tung-Thai-Body-Sn-t80546.html
PS: David, VIRGINIA. As I mentionned before, the back flap picture of the photographer itself is worth the “price of admission”… :-)))
2008 Don McCullin interview;
More Don McCullin;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyDrteH3ASs
Thanks Ross.
The last issue of APERTURE has a feature on him where he says about the same thing (in short: about self-questionning and ultimately seeing very little good come from one’s pictures) .
I think the personal and ethical, human altogether, dilemma of shooting misery, execution and dying, should and can never have a precise and reliable “working” answer, it’s not just about pitting the positive against the negative. Both polarities may reside not that far from each other, and only pictures are “black and white”.
Yes Herve, but we can but try….
JKaranka
there always seem to be a few copies gathering dust in a small bookshop or warehouse, even when the price on abe or amazon might be going for hundreds
————————–
You’re not just saying!!!
For some reason, we talk about Cambodia and the propagandists of the KR regime, and bingo! Today i find a used photo book made during that time, showing how brave and happy cambodians are under Pol Pot. It’s called THE NEW FACE OF CAMBODIA by some R Brown and D Kline, published by liberator press (sic). Bought it for 8 bucks.
I just checked. There are 2 copies on AMAZON, 150 and 280+ dollars…
To DAH: Will you be at Perpignan this year? What about a ” Burnian cold beer” meeting with everyone that allows burn to live since last December?
Abrazos a todos, Patricio
book prices are astonishing sometimes..
to be able to afford info retrieval from my hard drive, i have been looking online to value some of mine..
found that selling my 1st ed’s of waplingtons ‘living room’ and parrs ‘home and abroad’ would more than cover the hard drive invoice.. hundreds of pounds.. the trouble is.. i don’t really want to sell my books..
funnily enough, while researching prices i completely lost focus and ‘accidently’ bought a 1st ed of PJGs vietnam inc..
hmm..
__________________
PATRICIA – are you going to perp this year?
i know that AUDREY is going.. and probably ANTON TG..
ANYONE ELSE???
i really want to make it this year.. money is tight..
best pull my finger out and find some work..
have a better-than-usual lead to poss work right now .. so who knows.. :o)
okay – just checked dates..
i’m not going to perp this year :o)
Herve: I buy that book from you. I give you 9$… OK?
PATRICIO…
i do not think i can make it to Perpignan this year….as much as i would truly love sharing a cold beer with all of you who have supported Burn this year, i simply cannot justify the time nor the expense…i can better help you now by staying here close to the fires and moving towards some sponsorship for Burn photographers….if i were in Europe for some other reason, i would surely come down, but jumping on a plane from the U.S. to spend three days in France and fast turnaround would not be the best use of my time at this point…
there is a time to celebrate, there is a time to work…now is the time for me to work….
please enjoy Perpignan….and do also consider Arles for next summer…
cheers, david
DAH
sent you an email a couple of days ago with revised text. maybe we can set up a time to chat in the next couple of days?
cheers,
marc
What a pity Brent Lewin doesn’t want any comments on his essay. It’s such positive work in so many respects.
brents essay confused me a little.. on the one hand i felt i was looking at ambulance chasing snapper.. catching the chaos of the job and the banal routine of dealing with corpses day in day out, and on the other hand i was trying to get into the life of the people who do the job..
i think the former was more successful as i still feel there is a lack of closeness to the workers with respect to documenting their lives.. the photo through the window.. the photo of the sticker.. a photo taken peeking round a corner.. it feels as though we are being told that brent has only just begun to scratch the surface of the subject and so some detail was lacking..
he’s made a sweet begining although it feels incomplete.. and i guess it is.. a very interesting subject to get stuck into, regardless, and some excellent single images.
clearly he’s doing the business with trying to gain awards and recognition, but i felt the same of other stories on his site.. there were a lot of ‘relection in mirror’ shots.. tricks…
the best thing i think i saw on his site was the afghanistan work.. the main reason being that there was not a single ‘stormtrooper’ nor cliched embed shot.. it seems to be a folio of afghanistan life.. general day to day in the city which i think it’s important to see..
it’s all too easy to see the place as a ‘war’ instead of a country.. i was pleasantly suprised to click the link..
considering he’s only 3 or 4 years into snapping his site shows a good, progressive and solid foundation, even if some shots seem formulaic.
d
BRENT – apologies for using the third person if you’re reading.. unsure whether you’ll drift into ‘stray cat’ or not..
herve – if you have a flatbed scanner i think it’s only fair to share the photo :ø)
patricio – not patricia.
doh..
along with sending invoices without invoices attached, it’s not been my day …
Re: Meyerowitz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKWtJrcd-2Q
ALL
In connection with DAH’s question posed at the start of this thread — ie., “do you finish most things, or sooner rather than later give it up??” — how do you get going again after you HAVE finished a project? Do you experience a time of lowered enthusiasm/energy photographically-speaking, or do you jump right into something new?
Even in the final months of completing my project, I found myself experiencing an uncharacteristic lack of interest in taking new photos. And this from a person who has been an everyday shooter since 2000. Even now, I go days and days without taking my camera out of its bag.
Does this ever happen to you? It feels so strange. This morning I just started shooting something/anything just to be doing it.
If this has happened to you, how did you get the creative juices flowing again? Any suggestions would be most welcome…
Patricia
patricia –
i know how you feel, not wanting to pick up the camera. sometimes it feels that all the pictures have been taken, or those that aren’t are being shot by someone else… but then one begins again… maybe, as you have, you just shoot anything — because sometimes that’s enough for a photographer — what will this look like as a photograph? oh, yeah, that’s pretty decent, i have an eye! sometimes for me it might be putting on a new lens, even a gimmick lens like a lensbaby… or concentrating on details, or tight portraits… whatever… even if the new direction takes a 180 degree turn, you’ve (i’ve) at least begun to look again.
as an independent, freelance photographer who has done nothing else for 30 years, with kids in college and the whole noose of daily life around my neck, it can be troubling to be directionless. troubling and depressing… for a freelancer those new projects are often necessary to stay in tune or explore new techniques/approaches/directions. when one’s produced new work, it makes it easier to do marketing – you’ve got new stuff to show/share, always helpful in getting one to the keyboard/phone to smile and dial…
I tend to look back on single photos not part of the project I just completed. Things I shot offhand just because they were interesting at the moment. They often suggest a project that interests me. Something I didn’t think of at the time.
HERVE…
whatever price you paid for the Va. book, i will double it back to you if you DO NOT take David Bowen’s suggestion and scan that picture!! now, if begging does not work, then maybe coercion will….
i am coming to San Francisco at the end of september…short 4 day workshop with Momenta and some family picture shooting for American Family…there will be my usual slide show of student essays/work on the evening of the 28th…i always pump these events to be both educational and fun…i like that combo…
i will of course invite all Burn readers who live anywhere near San Francisco to the Momenta workshop show and of course a fine fine fiesta to boot will follow …THE place to be in San Fran that evening…
laughing….
it would really really be a shame if you were not on the guest list would it not my good friend Herve???
cheers, david
To Patricia: (and to all as well)
This is a quote from a great Mathematician C.F. GAuss:
“It is not knowledge, but the act of learning, not possession but the act of getting there, which grants the greatest enjoyment. When I have clarified and exhausted a subject, then I turn away from it, in order to go into darkness again; the never-satisfied man is so strange if he has completed a structure, then it is not in order to dwell in it peacefully,but in order to begin another. I imagine the world conqueror must feel thus, who, after one kingdom is scarcely conquered, stretches out his arms for others.”
Letter to Bolyai, 1808.
… THE ACT OF LEARNING…” That’s great!
Patricio
THE ACT OF GETTING THERE…
That’s a deal, David. I will keep the photo for myself, and you sign the book!
John Vink, who knows, one day, I may need the 9 bucks. I will remember your offer…
:-)
Herve.
Not so fast. We are working behind the scenes to quadruple David’s offer. Real bidding war about to commence.
My name 4 times on Momenta’s party waiting list? :-))))
Here is a selection of images I took on my short trip to the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad last week.
The shutter of my Canon 5D died on me right at the beginning of this trip and so all pictures were taken with a little lumix point and shoot camera which had a Russian menu. This brings the extra fun ;-)
Many things didn’t work out as planned, the truck with the aid goods got stuck at the border because of 2 tons overload. Yesterday I got the message that the truckload is free except for 2 tons of freight that still remain at the border control.
So I hope you get a little insight into what I have experienced and what I have seen last week.
http://www.reimar-ott.de/Russia_2009.htm
Enjoy!
Reimar
Reimar, maybe the 5D would have engaged you to deliver more “vision and drama”, but as it stands, “telling it like it is” works very nicely too.
It does have its limit (tending on the touristic, though it’s not an insult for me), the snapshot quality of the images does deliver much intimacy, but also sympathy that seems reflected back to you by the people themselves, and the plain colors too.
Patricia; Just pick up the camera and go for it! :-)
A couple of quotes that always work for me;
Steve McCurry; “One thing that will happen is that you won’t always want to take pictures. Sometimes when travelling you can be in a good mood, but just not for photography. I don’t have that luxury on assignment, and for anyone interested in getting great photographs, they have to be out there taking pictures. Sometimes you just have to force yourself to get out and get started. One foot in front of the other, take a few frames to get started, then things will start to flow. You’ve got to go for it. Don’t hold back”
Freeman Patterson. “Even when my feet are placed in footprints I made previously, and even if I stand there at precisely the same time I did the day before, the angle of light will have altered slightly and the sky will be deeper blue or paler with dust. And I will be a day older. So every time I gaze upon the whole, it will be from a unique perspective. And each of my unique perspectives will be different from each of yours”
Cheers
If God rested on the 7th Day (and we all agree much was unfinished…), so can Patricia! :-)
Reimar; Are you going back?
REIMAR
You prove the truth of Eve Arnold’s quote: “The instrument is not the camera but the photographer.” Your photos capture for me Renate’s mixed feelings as she visited her homeland after so many years. I see the faces of the Russian people and am touched by their warmth and welcome. The sky is huge and the fields vast. There is such a sense of dignity and pride at the hospital. And the little girl’s eyes sparkle as she holds her new stuffed animal. You take us both inside and outside the homes but hospitality is obviously everywhere. I especially loved looking through Musa’s lace curtains.
I’m relieved to hear that most of the aid got through. Only two tons to go!!! Such good work you are documenting. Bravo to all concerned.
Patricia
DQ, JIM, pAtrIcIO, ROSS, HERVE
Thank you so much for understanding and for throwing out a life preserver to this struggling swimmer. The quotes speak to me of the perseverance and fortitude we all know comes with the territory. Actually, I have a new project that I very much enjoy when I get out there and do it. But maybe Herve’s right — maybe I just need a little rest. But resting is never as much fun as going FULL OUT with a project that stirs your heart and absorbs your mind. I love PASSION not rest!!!
It sure is wonderful to be part of a community like Burn…
Patricia
“But resting is never as much fun as going FULL OUT with a project that stirs your heart and absorbs your mind. I love PASSION not rest!!!”
All power to you Patricia!!!
Patricia:
Is that a new edit of “Mirror Me” on your site? I’m sure they’re different pics to what I saw last time. They’re great!!!!!
ROSS
I just keep adding to the Mirror Me edit on my website. Now I’m waiitng for us to have a warmer, non-rainy day here in Detroit so I can take my mirror to the Michigan State Fair. That will be a treasure trove of possible images!
Thanks for your affirming response…
Patricia
Bucharest update:
A few weeks back I was going nuts getting ripped off by cap drivers, being attacked by vicious stray dogs and the like. Well, that’s still going on, but that’s not the point. To illustrate how oddball Romania is, here is a story in the NYT from yesterday of how Romanians at Wednesday night’s first ever Madonna concert booed her when she defended Roma (Gypsy) rights. I have read the commentary on a slew of websites and the hatred for Roma and for Madonna is simply astounding! I mean really awful, demeaning, sexual speech.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/08/27/arts/AP-EU-Romania-Madonna-Gypsies.html?emc=eta1
On another note, I have begin a new project here. Just getting going:
http://nordichigh.wordpress.com/
Personally, after the Madonna concert the other night that I listened to from my window(!) I have been going down memory on Youtube. Growing up in 80s America with Madonna and Michael Jackson was frickin great. Much better than nowadays. I am so nostalgic!
for dellicson…
This is what I was listening to in those days. If you’re into it, watch Simon Phillips (drummer) incredible!
PATRICIA (under Eve’s foreclosures essay):
There are too many people who are suffering and need to have their losses seen by those of us who still have houses to live in. These are times where the divide between the so-called “haves” and “have-nots” is becoming unbridgeable.
————————————–
Patricia, just because people have kept their house to live in, or have been behaving soundly with their finances when buying one, does not mean they belong to the “haves”, and need be told they ignore the least fortunate (Mr O would not have been elected otherwise).
Likewise, though it may not be a moment in one’s life to laugh about, not having a house anymore is not exactly being a “have-not”, which is an economic condition not just tied to a “crisis”.
yet, Compared to 9/10th of the world, 9/10th of american “have nots’ are actually “haves”. We need in this country to stop whining and look at how so many in the rest of the world live.
There was on CNN, a coverage on “have not” inner city kids going to South Africa, to see their “counterparts”. It was a heart-wrenching but learning experience, the US kids had no idea one could live in such abject poverty as the South-A kids did.
One may disagree, but I believe it is high time not to look inward, but outward and compassionately at the world, for americans.
Foreclosures and their consequences, on the human misery scale, rank nowhere close to the wretchedness of condition 1/3 of mankind lives in.
michael kircher. My apologies.I did not intend it to sound as if i were a lone wolf on this. It seems I am not entirely alone in not really getting the point of the essay.
john
Thanks for the reminder, Herve. You’re good at keeping us honest.
Patricia
REIMAR…
well, with just a bit of an edit, you would have a nice little essay here..please begin your edit by taking out the looking at the map picture particularly as your lead photograph……it took me awhile to recover from that one, but then and then you had some compelling images indeed, photographed with simplicity and sincerity….your essay really starts with the portrait of “Musa and Renate”, rolls nicely into “shadows” and “full table” and really gets us with “Musa’s husband suffers from Alzheimers and “naptime” with a truly lovely portrait “Jura and Ljuba”, with a simple but warmly sentimental photograph “at the datscha” and has very nice closing energy with “next generation”…..hang on to those……many thanks for sharing….very nice….
cheers, david
I know, don’t those inner city kids have it good! They just don’t know! Ignorant aren’t they?
Jesus Herve.
JOHN GLADDY…
i think you were part of the majority , so far, of most not really “getting” the work of Eve….certainly fair enough and for heaven’s sake, i want strong opinions…yours was clearly stated….you must know that i knew that this would be the majority reaction….
one thing that did surprise me however was that nobody picked up on the rather eerie and seemingly impossible task for Eve to have shot all those homes in EXACTLY the same flat light…as if they had all been shot at the same moment in time..i thought surely someone would notice that right away..that was the first thing i saw and i kept going back and forth trying to figure out how she did it…Eve was obviously being undramatic and unadorned on very clear purpose….not everyone’s cup of tea….but definitely shot with this flat result as her clear intent…
cheers, david
As a follow-up to Herve’s comments about how good Americans have it over persons in other parts of the world… In Detroit there has been an ongoing problem with water being cut off to residences, many of them rentals where the landlord got in arrears in the payments. Back in 2003-4 I was part of demonstrations calling for a moratorium on water cut-offs, at least during the winter. At that time over 40,000 homes in Detroit had no running water. 40% of children attending Detroit public schools had no running water at home. Many of these homes also had no heat or electricity. Even last winter, there were deaths in homes where the heat and electricity had been cut off.
Just to say, not everyone in the U.S. has it so easy.
Patricia
DAH
“one thing that did surprise me however was that nobody picked up on the rather eerie and seemingly impossible task for Eve to have shot all those homes in EXACTLY the same flat light…as if they had all been shot at the same moment in time”
I did notice that actually, though didn’t think it was particularly significant. Perhaps they were all shot in one afternoon in one neighborhood, not completely unlikely, given the similar architecture and age of many of the buildings. Even if they weren’t, this kind of light is pretty easy to come by.
Nothing really eerie or difficult about it. As an old commercial shooter I can tell you that we would choose these kind of days if we to make record shots of a lot of different buildings quickly without having to worry about the time of day/direction of light. The results were kind of boring and flat, with white skies, but it did the job. I would have got my wrists slapped if I had come back with un-corrected verticals however.
As others have pointed out, these photos have seem to have little to do with the current foreclosure situation in your country.
I trust your vision David, and you are obviously seeing something here that some of us are missing. I’m trying, help me out here.
Detroit’s Beautiful, Horrible Decline in Time HERE
Tom, do not be disingenuous and dishonest. I only mentionned inner city kids in relation to that CNN coverage I mentionned. So, I never said inner city kids have it all.
Patricia, you were speaking about people reeling from foreclosure, since it was Eve’s essay, not 40 000 homes without electricity and 40% kids without water. The situation of inner cities and disenfranchised neighboroods is, as I said, not new, crisis or not. I said 9/10th, not 10/10th.
Anyway, I was able to find part of the CNN essay on these kids going to South Africa. I think they do an even greater job of keeping us honest. Please, do watch it:
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/living/2009/05/29/bia2.brooklyn.to.africa.cnn
Can I take a sidetrack for a moment? … Got a nice compliment today, sort of, at least I thought it was at first, and now … well it’s an interesting thing. There is a mag where I have had a number of single black and whites published over the last few years, a literary journal of sorts, which is sent free to U.S. prisons. The editor forwarded a print request from a prisoner. He can’t afford to buy a print but he would like one for the 2 foot square piece of wall for his bulletin board. He cannot hang pages from a magazine but is allowed to hang actual prints. If your world is a cell and you have only two square feet … well that is a compliment and I’m inclined to send him a print. But then I did a little research and he is serving multiple consecutive life sentences without the possibility of parole for horrendous violent crimes. Should that matter? And if you had only two square feet, what would you hang on the wall? It was an interesting surprise in the mail today …
“Tom, do not be disingenuous and dishonest.”
Can’t wait till we finally meet Herve, I’m sure we’ll be fast friends.
I am sure too, Tom. It’s all virtual here. Somne good stuff is being shared though, we learn from each other!
Just got back from outside. It’s been one of the hottest and muggy days in SF history. People hanging out by the dozens at each street corner, girls wearing very, very short skirts. Ouh lala!
Anyway, back to work *and sharing!):
DAH (on Eve’ s essay)
EXACTLY the same flat light…as if they had all been shot at the same moment in time..i thought surely someone would notice that right away..
——————————————–
Therein lies the problem, David. If we are non-plussed by the essay, there is little chance that such flat light (It’s a bit seasonal too, extending in time, no?), even the difficulty of capturing it day after day, redeems the essay for us. So, why mentionning it.
I definitely think the ubiquitousness of looking at images on a screen often defeat the esthetic enjoyment of many a picture, or rather, of what enters into making that picture what it really is, its elements. the space within which a work of art is apprehended is also sometimes as important in photography.
But if people are conquered by an essay, therein lies another problem on BURN. People should tell us what they see, what it is, not just what they feel, and project of themselves into the picture.
Patricia, Herve, Ross, David,
thank you for your kind words and helpful critique!
I will pass on the good wishes to everyone involved in the project. Helping is not as easy as it seems.
Yes, I want to go back probably in October or April next year. I am very fascinated by this place.
During summer everything still looks nice, but autumn or winter might bring a different mood. On this first trip I got a good overview of the place. We were always in a hurry, but next time I want to spend more time with one family or in a particular location.
Everybody, enjoy the weekend!
Reimar
Generosity a special form of energy
sometimes visible …sometimes invisible…
LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLL BURNIANS,
keep it hot
keep it up
keep it burning
P.S I am watching in u.
The foreclosure essay touches close to home for me. A few years ago I remember reading about homes being stripped of copper pipe, wires, drywall, etc in Ohio after being foreclosed on.
I thought, wow what a terrible place that must be.
Now, earlier maybe even late last year, my parents home was declared in foreclosure. My parent had just gotten devorced and this week they just found a realitor to try to sell it before the bank claims it.
Their house was once a beautiful ranch home surrounded by trees on a wooded acre. Today, the outside appears to be in good repair, but the inside is in pretty rough shape. Not so bad that pipes, wires and such have been removed. But the floors are horrible, white carpet ruined, bathrooms are nearly destroyed due to clumsiness and leaking pipes, the power was turned off months ago. It’s a wreck. My dad and brother still live there however. What holds the weather out can still be called a home I guess.
I should really post this part on the essay it’s self, but I think shooting the buildings as if they would be for an ad found in one of those real estate magazines found in the entrances of gas stations and grocery stores is intriguing. It’s a pelculiar look. I think it’s the view of the shopper.
I decided earlier this week it might be a good idea to work on a story about losing the home. And the tearing apart of the family. About a year ago the power was shut off on my family for about a month while they tried to find the money to pay off the bill. I wonder how this end happens to other families.
Just a bit to the east and north of my current apt is an area where property is at a premium due to visitors from the Chicago area buying up land for summer cottages. Door CoUnty in Wisconsin has a whole bunch of homes that were abandoned back in the 70’s. A few friends of mine have photographed a few and inside they discovered it’s alsmost as though people just up and left. Like they were going to work and never returned. Perscription bottles sit on counters with pills still in them, stacks of old phone books sit near the telephone, ornaments an photos hang on walls. It’s amazing.
Man that was full of typos. I blame the phone…
This story has been floating around the internet and my mind the last couple of weeks. It makes the point better than I could, and says a lot about the PJ profession and its troubles at the same time — related to Detroit, and related to decay.
http://www.viceland.com/int/v16n8/htdocs/something-something-something-detroit-994.php?page=1
Hi all-
Unfortunately I won’t be making it to Perpignan next week for Visa, but for any Burnians passing through Paris en route, it would be great to meet up for a drink…cu
patricia..
:o)
it’s got to be a relatively common problem, you know.. after one big effort there is bound to be a void.
the thing to do is kick back and relax i reckon.. just enjoy the contentment if you can.. get the book out and see what that throws up.. the change of perspective lent by completing a piece.. bound to throw up some organic leads concerning where to go next.
it’s tough.. wondering what to do next is of course a motivator, while it can also grow into one of those ‘life stresses’.. which is why kicking back and relaxing for a short time is best.. so long as you keep photographing something, or at least keep editing something..
i’ve been digging into my negatives again.. along side looking out at the books others have produced.. thinking about other edits .. other books..
the daily shooting is taking care of itself.. and it’s a pleasure.. ‘wasted’ will come together.. in the meantime other opportunities are abound.
it’s an amazing thing – working hard while also leaving room for outside influence to take our hands and lead us always provides a direction… sometimes stressing that the new direction is not coming along quick enough can stop us seeing clearly..
last year when i began seriously editing my work i had these worries.. life worries.. had i wasted life.. would my work bring me where i wanted to go next.. so many thoughts that i bearly noticed i had already developed.. moved on.. and as this summer proved for me, opportunities were developing without my even knowing it.
yes.
:o)
civilian mass goodness.. hows that little surrogate family of yours doing?
very well i hope..
d
DAVID BACHER..
i like the Tony Suau piece, but see no relationship to what he did and what Eve was trying to do…
LISA…
i totally understand everything you are saying except for your apparent anger that Eve is making a false claim to “bearing witness”…perhaps we have different definitions of what “bearing witness” means…to me, bearing witness is simply looking at a subject, shooting it as it stands, and no manipulation of any kind…what do you mean by “bearing witness”?? i am not suggesting that you should like these pictures, but surely they are pure documentary whether or not you appreciate the aesthetic…
as you either know or can guess, i was not at all personally influenced by either Walker Evans nor Bernd and Hilla Becher, as was Eve….but, that does not mean i cannot appreciate the austere feel of Evans, the Becher’s, Polidori, Robert Adams, etc…this is the aesthetic that Eve wants(fyi, i have never met her, nor spoken with her..just going by her statement)…this is not what you want to do, nor me either …fine…but, why the rejection of a whole aesthetic as if it had no value because it is not what you do??
please understand where i am coming from on this….i am not getting on “your case” Lisa…first, you are one of my favorite people on the planet, and i like the work you do….. however, you have brought up an interesting phenomena in my mind….of all the artists i know, photographers , for whatever reason, seem to be the most narrow minded within the discipline itself…for example, many photographers would listen to a wide variety of music, see action movies or comedy, read fiction, non-fiction, history, whatever, and yet confine themselves to only one style of photography appreciation….of course you can only DO one or maybe two things, but why does this so often lead to an actual “anger” towards another type or style?? a sincere question….
cheers, david
HERVE…
who said that flat light “redeems” the essay?? in my mind , that was an interesting aside, and obvious artistic intention, that i thought would be mentioned/noticed by this audience…certainly no small task on Eve’s part….in any case, my wish is that you would see what is published here as simply trying to show the wide variety of work being done by young photographer’s today and giving you a chance to express your views…
well, you did of course:
“But if people are conquered by an essay, therein lies another problem on BURN. People should tell us what they see, what it is, not just what they feel, and project of themselves into the picture.”
sorry, but you lost me on that one…you said, “people should tell us what they see”…????? isn’t that why they took a picture?
cheers, david
I am not sure david but i think herve may be referring to the viewer of essays /pictures rather than the author. (is this right herve??)
David. your description of photographers being quite narrow in their scope is quite often true, but it is true also of many of the other mediums of which you speak. authors can be as guilty of it as can musicians…..and yet i suspect many of them have quite a far ranging appreciation for arts ouside their own too.
DAH says: “many photographers would listen to a wide variety of music, see action movies or comedy, read fiction, non-fiction, history, whatever, and yet confine themselves to only one style of photography appreciation…”
I listen to a broad range of music, read a broad range of books, etc. because I like all of them. I am much narrower where photography is concerned because there are only a couple of styles I like. Perhaps photography is in some way different than music, books and movies that result in a much narrower interest in a particular style. Far fewer people buy photography (books, images, etc) than music, books or movies. Perhaps there is a connection, there.
JOHN…
perhaps you are correct….maybe it is because i am so close to photographers that i feel a bit more “narrowness”…ah yes, i think i did read Herve wrong….but, let’s leave it and see what he says…yes, yes, you are right for sure….i honestly thought he was referring to the artist statement….
JIM…
far fewer people do buy photography books, for one reason because they cost 5-10 times more than an album or a movie…and they do not “entertain” easily either…however, folks are certainly exposed to still photography just as much or more as they are to the other media, in the papers, mags and advertising etc…
here might be the difference…
photography for most people is probably and simply utilitarian..
descriptive of an object to be sold…..this is what this pair of running shoes look like, here is your hotel room, your pancakes will show up like this etc etc….music, books, films are generally for either entertainment, educational, or artistic pleasure…
cheers, david
Not sure if this has been mentioned here but Antonin Kratochvil is featured in Outside Online:
http://outside.away.com/outside/culture/200909/antonin-kratochvil-1.html
DAH says: “an interesting phenomena in my mind….of all the artists i know, photographers , for whatever reason, seem to be the most narrow minded within the discipline itself…for example, many photographers would listen to a wide variety of music, see action movies or comedy, read fiction, non-fiction, history, whatever, and yet confine themselves to only one style of photography appreciation….of course you can only DO one or maybe two things, but why does this so often lead to an actual “anger” towards another type or style?? a sincere question….”
I love to shoot with many different styles and looks because no every story or event can be told with the same look I feel… I think – when the photographer is more focused on it being an “art” then it’s all about restrictions…….
I’ve also found in much of my readings that to be successful in photography, one must really focus on one look so editors can pick the right photographer for the job… Maybe this is why they’re so restricting in their appreciation… why they would hate another is unknown to me. I find when I’m pressured (in classes) to explore styles I’m not interested in shooting I start to feel animosity towards that style… because it’s not something I care to do nor care to learn much about… In painting, the artist is restricted only by their abilities and imagination… in photography – imagination, gear, and tech are the limiters. Tech can be learned by buying gear, gear is plentiful…
Some people fear the unknown. and fear can be a very strong emotion – such as that is – I know many people who are afraid to use a flash. It’s so unthinkable how many factors that incorporates into the work… and again – “Raw? goodness why shoot with that? it takes up so much space and oh i don’t know how to use an editor… (I might have to LEARN something)”
Fear is probably what causes that animosity David…
Fear that perhaps this work is better at telling a story than the style “I” shoot… or worse – “I could do better than that! Thats’s just crap” Well, Photography is like any art – and the quality of the piece shouldn’t be judged so fast. Quality is locked up in so many aspects of the image, from the story, the lighting, the feel, and the viewer.
With music, things are different – the parts that are techy are worked on by specialists behind a sound board. In TV and movies, you have sound techs, lighting, grips, cameramen, directors, etc etc.. and who gets the recognition in a movie? Not the cameraman, but the director!
In photography, you’re all of these people all rolled up into one. and if your abilities aren’t as strong as the next person’s or you feel they’re matched and you want to be competitive, anger breaks out…
It’s silly really….
:)
“people should tell us what they see”…????? isn’t that why they took a picture?
—————————–
Just aout the 37 or 38th time you read me wrong, David, you busy man! :-)))))
I meant: readers. Remember my post was about those who don’t like an essay and those who do….Duh!, or rather, dah! :-)))
my wish is that you would see what is published here as simply trying to show the wide variety of work being done by young photographer’s
—————————————-
Doing just that, David. 2 years on, and going…..
I am squarely in the number of people who have never said what should be shown or not on BURN (while I do not hide that my fascination for photography is -still- definitely more about the moment the shot was taken, not the print or the processing, as important as they may be), and if I may, one of the few who can spends regularly an hour or more writing on an essay, or a shot, wether I “like them or not”.
as a “young” P., if featured on BURN,I will take someone not liking what I do but spending time to tell me why, over someone not saying much while liking it, anytime.
On “bearing witness”, I think we should give Lisa a wide berth. Bearing witness is not so much related to straight, cold, detached topophotogtrahpy as to “concerned photo-journalism”. Eventually, both of you are right. Even little snaps I take of my lttle nephew (going to France on Oct. 28th!) will bear witness to him at 6 or 7 yo, amd maybe to the style of tapestry and wall papert on my Mom’s walls, behind him.
And I am a concerned uncle!
:-))))
i only really get angry at work which is either directly derivative of XXX, rather than influenced-by XXX..
or work which seems to lack sincerity.. appears superficially as though the photographer has done what they thought they ‘should’ do..
normally i think people do things they feel they ‘should’ do in order to reap a reward they are probably not worthy of.. i sometimes wonder if there is now a generation of photographers for whom the goals are agencies and awards rather than the sheer pleasure of shooting their thing.
these days there are a great deal of people with camera who copy a style / subject / technique .. something to do with the fascination of how to ‘make it’, perhaps..
in any case.. i like photographers who do their own ‘thing’ and who’s life and practice supports that ‘thing’.. lends a foundation to what they are doing.
having said that i cannot remember the last time i was angry at a photographers work.. pretty broad taste these days..
i don’t like it when artists talk-up work with cross references which would blatantly be redundant were the work good enough.. from the heart.. in the first place..
… and i guess i used to get angry when i lost a commission to someone who’s work did not stand up, and who no doubt took less money :o)
blahblahblah.. rambling on red wine now..
cognac?
ahh.. why not.. a small one..
http://www.blueprintmagazine.co.uk/index.php/architecture/the-new-photourbanism/
DAVID BOWEN..
you make total sense…and you always express what you do not like in a way that is never interpreted as “angry”…now, where in hell were you this morning on skype?? i was expecting you…no, i am not angry!! curious would be the proper term….smile
YOUNG TOM…
thanks for the link…good…..now about that bag factory…
cheers, david
hey.. i was there.. 11 am bergen time which i figure as 6am neu yawk time?
my computer clicks on and off standby so we must have just missed..
i hope i am honest.. and also use the right words.. i try to think about posts here, although not so much when drunk..
now days, with being so busy, i really try to avoid writing if there is something which doesn’t turn me on.. different strokes for different folks.. and besides, who the hell am i anyway?
strand?
actually – been reading about a collective which strand used to mentor within.. i think there are similarities within burn..
chat soon.. wanna show you the view from the balcony..
d
I am falling in love with this woman from Bay City, Michigan! Wow she looks good! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5uNcrQnXdY&feature=related
Off (shooting a circus),
but may i suggest one day a discussion on “liking” in photography, and why “the shot” nowadays seems to be receding behind the “idea behind it”. Eve’s essay is a perfect example.
It’s like Photography is becoming more important than photos, and actually, I am not so sure it really is, was or will ever be.
the main thing as i see it is that on burn i cannot, of the top of my head, think of a single snapper who i have written off as derivative.. insincere..
there have been an astonishing number of idiosyncratic voices which have stretched my visual appreciation as much as road trips stretched my artistic vocabulary.. all a great help with respect to my own work..
and with my teaching..
teaching.. one of the best ways in the world to learn about your own practice while soaking up a tolerance for other peoples..
davin.. she’s a donkey.
(i think)
i think using the words ‘i think’ are important on a forum like this, not only for peoples sensibilities, but also to prevent us seeming dictatorial..
yep.
herve.. i have a greater appreciation for photography which needs no explanation, and would rather see photos than words.. that’s why i own very few books without pictures.
i think some photographers are self-conscious about their place in photography, rather than just enjoying photography and seeing what happens.. the intention becomes as important as the work for some, whereas for others the intention becomes clear through the act of taking and displaying the work..
i cannot like the text under a photo – i can only like the photo..
and, again, who am i anyway?
sometimes i find myself being too lofty in appraising peoples work here.. and i think we’re all a little guilty of that.
off for dinner..
d
HERVE..
so, please share your pictures of the circus….not the idea, just the pictures!! peace
How to critique. I have failed miserably on at least two occasions.
What I think is going on in some cases is this… we walk into a gallery and find yourself in a room full of seriously bizarre and unimpressive works (Rothko, perhaps? ;^}) and you snicker and mock with whomever you’re with and you move on. Maybe you sit down with a nice glass of wine and open a brand new book that received a good review from someone you respect. About halfway through the first chapter you scream out “aaaggh!!” and *whooosh-BANG* across the room it flies! “I can’t believe I spent money on that piece of shit!”
Artists are passionate folks to be sure… this is sometimes how they respond. In this place, however, there are people… real people on the other end. David Bowen is right, little words like “I think” can go a long way. I am learning this. Trying, anyway.
Unless they are quoting objective facts, I assume all comments are opinions. Why preface everything with a qualifier like “I think”? Obviously it’s what you think or you wouldn’t have said it. Good grief.
I think, therefore I am. I am, therefore I think. I think I am, therefore. Therefore, I think I am, unless I can get a second opinion, preferably from someone who knows more about CPR than I do.
For me; one of the greatest benefits of Burn has been my exposure to different styles of work. Whether it be from essays, or links provided by other posters. I am continually surprised as to how those differing styles show up in your own work. I’m not talking about directly copying another’s work, but subliminally absorbing the influences from a wide variety of sources.
So that’s Harvey’s plot. Subliminal messages! :)
DAH
Cotton candy and carnival games…. (a subliminal message) Grin.
JIM…PETE…
oh my plots and schemes have no end…i figured you boys would have noticed that long long ago…now, on a more serious note, if i showed up in either of your towns, do you think i could shoot an assignment for your paper?? i mean, just the next one up on the hook…whatever it is…just for fun, but of course i would take it seriously…i liked working for a newspaper and it has been a long time since i shot a newspaper assignment…what do you think??
cheers, david
JIM
Who does it hurt if we choose to preface our comments with, “I think” or “in my opinion” or “it seems to me”? Certainly not the photographer we are critiquing, nor anyone who reads our critique. When we come in with a blunt declaration, it can sound like ours is the only opinion worth hearing. I suspect (see how I started this sentence?) the lack of such introductory phrases is what often makes your comments sound unneccessarily brusque and authoritarian. Try it, Jim, you might like it.
ALL
Has anyone else noticed that DAH’s request that there be only one comment per person has been ignored by several posters to Eve’s photo essay? Isn’t that what Dialogue is supposed to be for? Come on folks, let’s respect David’s request. It’s been working well up till now.
Patricia
Patricia, the thread has not gone ballistic, now if everyone spent their life only crossing the road at designated crossings then it would be one heck of a boring stroll
EVE
Firstly my comments are not directed at you as a human being. There was a good deal of that post that went missing because of a dud internet connection which perhaps would have softened the actual delivery of what I said. Reading back over it as it came across I have to admit it is incredibly harsh. For that I do apologise, though I am not here to make friends I did not wish to make an enemy.
Your essay has been presented on this forum in a way that it really does not benefit from, in my opinion. I am sure that 300 large format prints in one gallery space or a book devoted to the subject would be a far more powerful statement of the volume of the crisis and lend the project more gravitas for that depiction of the amount of homes sitting vacant.
What my major objection about your essay is that I believe it fine to work within a conceptual structure when the artist is intent on delivering a philosphophical message, but your message is based on a reality and its the interpretation of that reality in a way that is conceptual and philosphophical that I find so disturbing.
To me it looks like a case of someone making light of an awful dilemma for Americans, like the rich kid who wants to go ‘slumming’ rather than an indepth study of the forces in the lives of the people that led to this situation. Let me explain…
Saying you are ‘bearing witness’ to me is a statement at complete odds with the work, IMO. I don’t believe that this is documentary work in anything other than the fact that you have many pictures of empty houses. To me ‘Bearing witness’ is recording events that are occurring in an empathetic and well researched manner rather than an observational, theorectical and distanced gaze. ‘bearing Witness’ to me signifies that the person in that position to be able to witness events is a conduit to present those events to the human audience with an emphasis on the human approach.
This is not a conceptual approach- conceptual art- where the philosphophy is considered more important than the object produced is not able by its definition to be documentary. A document is a record, documentary photography is a photographic record of events. An object is produced. Perhaps the only other comparison I can make to this work is that of the photographer who systematically documented the people who were then immediately executed by the Khmer Rouge.
Debate has raged about it as documentary work as well. His approach I believe was as observational and quite repugnant to most right thinking people. We know that the people he photographed died within minutes of these very images being produced. In the same way I know that some of those houses you have photographed in such a stand-offish manner had been dwelt in by people whose lives had probably taken a turn for the worse.
But while some of them have that history not all of them do, so you surely can see why I don’t understand what you are trying to say.
If not ‘liking’ someones work becomes an offense then I apologise. I simply do not like this work because I find it unclear in its intentions, though very ‘art school chic’ in its stylistic delivery.
DAVID
Are we at loggerheads again? Dear oh dear, I do seem to court controversy don’t I? If disliking work as it is presented on Burn is ‘narrow-minded’ or ‘angry’ then what venue should we voice our opinions in?
Perhaps I was a little clumsy in expressing myself about Eve’s work BUT I think it does not fulfill (as it is presented here on Burn) the rather lofty and ambitious description it has presented as its ‘artist statement’
I find it amusing that you think I am ‘narrow-minded’ I had a similiar reaction to the photos of homeless people that were presented as shapeless lumps on the ground. It did nothing for me except to turn a living breathing person into philosphical ponderings by someone that could afford the camera. Sorry but thats not what I am about.
As for anger, perhaps I was a bit harsh with my words. However there are a lot of people making capital out of foreclosures and that does get my goat. Its not philosphical stuff in my world. Its real human tradgedy that can lead people to suicide and massacre.
I have absolutely supported some of the stuff shown here that everyone else has categorically panned- computer generated imagery that used imagination and verve for instance but that still triggered empathy and led to intriguing thought, plus stuff that that was obviously in development and some of which had missed its mark a little but worked because of the bravery of the photographer.
No I don’t believe I am narrow-minded. And I love Rothko, one of my favorite painters next to Hopper…
I think that part of the problem with this essay as well is that it is unsuited to the medium of the internet. If its a conceptual piece (as it appears to me to be) then it would be well suited to a gallery presentation as emphemera on the walls to bring a kind of contemplative poise to it. Shown here it looks just lack lustre and does not resonate at all.
I have given Eve my definition of ‘bearing witness’ in pretty clinical terms and I hope that explains things for you as well. I am not meaning to be anything but honest and truthful in my opinion of this work and I sincerely don’t want to hurt Eve’s feelings.
The work just does not suceed in my opinion.
Hehehehe…So David does this mean mojitas are off?
A clarification: Of course I was not speaking of Eve, the photographer, or DAH when I referred to people posting more than one comment on Eve’s essay. They have carte blanche…
Patricia
Patricia, I think you are trying to be way too PC with all of this. If any photographer here thinks I am the absolute authority on anything just because I don’t qualify every sentence I post with a declaimer, they are fools and probably need to do something else other than post their photos on Burn. In my opinion, of course.
PATRICIA
I believe you may be referring to me?
I hope not because it is fact the first time I have double dipped on the comments section.
In my opinion, perhaps you should make it clear who you mean by naming names.
Sort of eases the uncertaintity about to whom you refer.
And just to lighten things up a bit
One from Oz for Lisa and a real oldie from NZ (ps; any Crowded House fans may spot a very young Neil Finn)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Egkk0IgWI5c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPtSJJh2W28
Smile everyone… :-))
Patricia
since u are referring to me….well, all i will say is that the 1 comment rule (and yes rules were meant to be broken) was implemented because discussions under the essays turned away from the discussion at hand. having a conversation with the photographer directly (as i was, for example) does not make sense here. When eve or david or any other photographer speaks directly with a commentator, i think it is not only fair but necessary that that conversation continue directly…..
partricia, if david wishes that dialog not continue beneath an essay he has the authority to move it or to delete it. if burn is to engage in conversation beneath essays it should have flexibility….
i am surprised with your reaction…if david is troubled, he can speak about this….
i should say you were not ONLY referring to me…i dont want to be bloated about that ;))….having discussion about an essay, or a conversation with a photographer, makes little if any sense here…the clubhouse…it needs and should be discussed beneath the essays….the idea of the 1 rule comments is as much about perspective as it is about writing 1 comment…even the people who hated the essay, i would love to have a conversation there, including with eve if she wished…i think the 1 rule tends to over-heat each comment, because most only go at it once….Stray conversation is just that, for the entirety of stray…but seems lost here…frankly….
Patricia it’s not like we are double dipping spring rolls in the szechuan based sauce ………it is the internet
Lisaaaa!!!
:))))))
whATS up ??
long time….
glad you’re around…:)
Hey y’all…
Patricia was talking about me…
im the one breaks the double posting…
laughing…
either way…
i just came back from Fontana…
i missed all comments and essays once again…
but , i was trying to survive ( working ) so i hope im excused…
let me go check the latest essay now…
big hug y’all…)
Design concept #3: Any great bag should have a great strap, and one with an uncuttable cable sewn in …
David, actually went so far as to email you a manufacturing link (as an example), maybe you are referring to that … I was surprised how “easy” it is to work with a company to design, engineer and manufacture a custom bag. Of course, this route would take a fair bit of capital up front in a go it alone approach, as opposed to a partnership with an established company, but I figured you would want total control of the product, marketing, etc …
it’s a fun hypothetical exercise … and yes, initially at least, money should be no object if you are to create the world’s best bags for togs, however the integral Corona compartment with hydrogen cooling may be a bit over the top … I think … I don’t know, maybe it could double as a film fridge. Film, beer … the choices we must make! I’m all for the bottle opener though.
Now the waterproofing … hmmm, internal diver’s bag? love those things … yeah, i know, too much weight, issues with quick access but conceptually intriguing for design and manufacturing concepts, seemless radio frequency welding, etc …
so, please share your pictures of the circus….not the idea, just the pictures!!
————————————————-
David! :-)))
A quick look at the few pictures I have sent you, or shared here off and on (plus a few thousand in my folders), do show that they only exist because I took them at the moment I took them. Their context, the event or happening within which (and never for which) they were taken are merely an excuse to get to that 1/125th, more or less, moment.
This is exactly what I meant, when in the past, I wrote I am not really a photographer, I only take pictures. My only talent is for life, I have none worth mentionning otherwise… That’s the idea! ;-)
Again…
in a foreclosure ,
usually ( but not always )… families walk out their houses coz they
cant afford the monthly mortgage payment… missed a payment?
then your loan goes to “default”…blah…
luxurious homes with swimming pools and jacuzzi’s and everything..
Foreclosure didnt last enough to justify most of the photos that are reaaally old
abandoned houses …or under construction etc…
got confused at the end..
but again,
who cares….
big hug
keep shooting..
:)
Ι ΤΗΙΝΚ …Ι LOVE YOU
Our Patricia::
I think you are referring to me…:)))
I think little respect …goes a long way.
Davidb:
Update from the “surrogate ” family…oime…it’s not easy…
What’s up with the donkey…???
JasonH:
Fear …yes, you make me thinking about fear…
Lisa:
Welcome back
Panos:
You have been missed…:)))
Tom Hyde:
I think about …first aid and bottle opener…
Rossy:
you got it
SMILE EVERYONE
Life is full off surprises…
Yes DAH. I understand that Eve’s work serves more as a symbol of the foreclosure crisis compared to Suau’s essay…which is well, an essay. I guess I’m going back to what you told me a couple weeks ago about using U.S. style photojournalism as a base in finding one’s own direction…
Eve’s photos are architectual and it just seems difficult to represent the various sides of a multi-layered, deep rooted social problem with flat, front on images.
ok…Time for un pain au chocolate et un cafe.
photographs
and
passion….
words,
miscommunicated….
lisa,
feel your passion….
not
venom……
love,
my friends….
burn
it
up….
always……
dance……
xoxox
Lisa
perhaps you shouldnt be double dipping at all in the first place? Ill be blunt, you are being confrontational to the point of being an ass.
RAFAL
Luckily I am not a sanctimonious git like yourself…
As far as being sanctimonious goes, last time I read your post you were announcing you were leaving. Seems you can’t stay away or keep to your own words. As far as being sanctimonious, since sanctimony involves a healthy heaping of hypocrisy, I’d say that puts you much closer.
Something to peruse over http://englishrussia.com/?p=1789
http://www.saatchi-gallery.co.uk/artists/boris_mikhailov.htm
boris mikhailov’s photos are just so disturbing.
This morning I’m trying to catch up with Stray Cat comments…
Jared, that was a fascinating link on the photographers who are pouring into Detroit to capture “urban blight.” Of the three photos illustrating the article, I’ve taken pics of two of those sites myself over the years. And I now see that Eve also found her way here to take the abandoned house pics she posted. No wonder they looked familiar! I think I’ve taken a pic or two of those same houses myself.
Living in Detroit, it’s easy to get pulled into the urban blight photographic frenzy. I’ve started a couple of projects like that myself but never went too far with them. They were mostly “drive-by shootings” anyway. Not my style at all. Besides, what’s the purpose? To kick a city that’s down on its knees already?
By the way, I’m not saying that was what Eve was doing. She obviously had another purpose in mind.
Detroit is a city teeming with paradox. Some of the greatest people on the planet and a few of the worst. Architectual gems from the 1910s-30s beside rotting out houses from the same era. An incredible diversity of live music happening amidst the sounds of factories going silent. The highest unemployyment in the country and some of the richest industrialists, bankers and stock brokers living in opulent mansions. A city with 80% African-American population surrounded by predominantly white suburbs. More free music festivals on its streets than any other city in the United States, but those same streets are “home” to countless men, women and now even children, a few of whom have frozen to death during cold winters.
A photographer’s dream? Maybe. But I guess some of us would rather use our energy trying to be agents of positive change, often in unseen ways, than to continue focusing on the negatives for which Detroit is known all over the world. Maybe by using our cameras, but maybe not. There are lots of ways to work for change, some as simple as participating in a city’s life-building activites.
OK, enough from me about Detroit. I do love this city and its people. In my 45 years here, I’ve always felt comfortable going wherever I want, day or night, often by myself. Sure I keep my wits about me and don’t put myself in stupid positions, but my experience of this city has been amazingly wonderful. People are so kind.
Patricia
TOM
I am touched by your post about the prisoner who wants to have a print of yours as his sole “window on the world.” And I resonate with your feelings about his history of horrendous violence.
Back in the 1990s I put out a hand-created periodical called “Co-creating Peace With Justice.” Somehow copies found their way into prisons across the U.S. A good number of prisoners submitted their poems, articles and drawings to be published, which I did. I got close to one fellow who was an extraordinary artist and writer. He was also on death row at San Quentin for killing the young mother of an eight-year old boy. I visited Steven at SQ a couple of times but found it to be such a disturbing experience I couldn’t go back. Strangely enough it wasn’t the death row prisoners who upset me, it was the entire environment and the energy of the guards.
All this to say, when I got to know this convicted murderer as a person, I found he was not a monster. Steven had/has the same needs for beauty and art as all of us. I never forgot–nor did he–his horrible crime, but the whole of the person was more than that crime. I know he would have LOVED to have had one of your photos in his cell. I hope the fellow who asked this favor of you will receive such a life-enhancing opportunity…
Patricia
LISA…
oh my, i was not aware that you and i had ever “been at loggerheads”…first and foremost my friend, i said quite clearly that your opinion, and the opinion of anyone, is most most welcomed here…
the LAST thing i would want on this forum would be everyone just love love loving everything that was published..surely you know me by now that i would find that to be boring boring boring…and , of course, i publish lots of material here on Burn that i know full well is going to cause some to rise up and give strong opinions….isn’t that the point of a forum???
the nature of the net allows all of us to write/react fast…sometimes we write first and then think later…i am often guilty of this…and all of us forget that we are not just in this little room having conversation between Herve, Bob, Imants, Erica, Rafal,Patricia,Akaky,Jim,Panos, Civilian, and the about 25 others who regularly participate in this chat…there are a few thousand others always listening in including some of the most respected folks in our craft…
those of you who write regularly on Burn are actually known “characters” in some of the largest editorial offices and agencies in the world…no joke…ask any of the audience here who have come to any kind of group gathering like Perpignan or Look3 where there are lot of Burn readers…..you guys are oddly “famous” in photolandia….when i saw Panos once signing autographs, i knew we had created a monster….seriously, the Burn forum is quite a large family with all of the pros and cons associated…so, all of us i think, me included, need to choose our words wisely…
why should we not edit words the same way we carefully edit our pictures??
words of dissent do not have to be words of hurt…Eve was actually quite upset …she is used to critique of course and harsh critique at that, but i think it did get a little personal and way way beyond the photography itself..go back and re-read please….
yes, i did read you as being angry….the angry part loomed larger than the meaning of what you were trying to say…you know how it is..when someone is speaking to you with an angry voice, all you notice is the anger…the message itself is lost…
all of this said, i love your spirit…you shoot from the hip in real life and this makes you Lisa Hogben….i would not take the time to answer your private e-mails , nor write to you now here, if i did not have mucho respect and caring for you….
big hugs, cheers, david
JASON
Thank you for sharing your personal experience with foreclosures and power being cut off and family disruptions. In relation to the possibility of your choosing your family’s experience as a subject for a photo essay, I would like to encourage you to do so. To my eye, the strongest essays are often where the photographer turns the camera on the things they know the best — especially the most challenging parts of their life — and digs deep into its essence, I tried to do that with my self portraits and found it to be a transformative experience. There’s something about standing back from your own life and trying to see it with an objective eye. It changes things for you…and for whomever else is involved. It can feel scary, yes, but I found it to be well worth every moment of discomfort. Best wishes to you, my friend.
Patricia
LISA
Just read your comment. No, my dear, I was not referring to you specifically, just to a general pattern that had merged on Eve’s essay. I’d prefer not to “name names.” Whoever posted more than one comment knows their own names, after all ;=)
Hope you are well…
Patricia
DAH
Do I think you could walk in to my newspaper and shoot an assignment? Absolutely! Maybe the only exception would be sports action, since I can only imagine the last time you shot a football or basketball game. Feel free to drop on in and I’ll be happy to put you to work!
Actually the purpose of the “subliminal” post was to remind you to check out my fair work. When you get the chance of course.
ALL
A bit off topic, if there really is one here, on the subject of who we are and what we do….
From a recent posting on the NPPA listserver (yeah believe it or not listservers still exist in the blog era) by Dirk Halstead:
“I have been saying this for years. DO NOT think of yourself as a photographer. Think of yourself as a PRODUCER. Photographers are like plumbers. They are hired to unclog the toilets. Producers on the other hand think of the big picture..what is the story? What is the best way to do it? Who do I sell it to?
Photographers are about day rates. Publications no longer have day rate money. Producers are about projects, and everything is negotiable.”
Maybe a good way to look at things.
Thanks Patricia … yes, the whole energy of prisons is a unique circle of hell unto itself. I have no desire to experience that again either. I will send him a print. I think it is the right thing to do, even if it is a little unnerving given the horrendous inhumanity of his crimes. Perhaps I’ll skip the return address, though.
Pete … good way to look at things and besides, I hate few things worse than plumbing.
PETE…
ok, will get to your fair edit tomorrow…i am behind on all of my editing because i have indeed been shooting sports action all week…yes, with a long lens!!! but, not football , basketball…surfing…man, is the surf ever UP!! storms 100 miles or so off the coast have given us spectacular weather and big waves….even though sports is not my “thing” to shoot, nobody could pass up this surf…and , of course, the surrounding scenery is part of it too….you know, birds, marsh, etc…
cheers, david
PETE…
just saw your second comment…yes, Dirck is right right and right…i have been saying the same thing for many years…being a “content provider” will make you just that, a “content provider”…photographers need to understand the whole process and get involved with the whole process…it has always been true, but now more than ever…our whole move at Magnum with the channel system and becoming a media company, not a content provider company, will be to have photographers and our agency as the producers….Burn is part of all this…would explain more, but i am going surfing….later
cheers, david
DAVID:
this will be quick, as im running out for the day with dima…marc’s send u the revised text….i’ll tell him tonight that u’ve been busy with shooting (should be the priority)….
im running away now from burn for a few weeks…yesterday left a slightly sour taste…i’m saddened for eve and im saddened by some of the comments above from folk….i dont get you all at all….
Patricia: i dont understand why you continue to refer to people without speaking to them directly and you WERE referring to Lisa…and to me and to immants and to john, why beat a different oar the next day…, nor do i understand the name calling and the bitterness…nor do i understand why this place is more about personality than photography or about self promotion than about celebration, nor why it is always either/or…good critique of work comes from the attempt to place work within it’s context…disliking work or seeing the failings of work (all work fails) can be incredibly useful to photographers, if the critique also allows for the photographer to reflect upon that failure…tom hyde’s observation about the windows was a GREAT observation, even though he didnt feel or particularly like the work,…a great discussion could have been enlivened by a discussion of the statement (for me the weak part of the presentation) or a discussion of the aim of eve’s work,…this cannot occur under Stray….but needs to occur under the essay itself, but when we’re confronted by posters on Stray suggesting that people who post more than once are disrespecting David/burn etc, as Patricia has suggested, it immediately deflates any authentic hope to create conversation….
reasonable comments and behavior cannot be defined or restricted, for that is simply an impossibility. the containment of behavior is a doomed to fail. What we can hope to do is, through our behavior, through our encouragement and trust and actions, hope to model a way towards responding to work and others, not through a 1-comment and thought police mentality, but toward a benediction of respect, admiration and celebration. People can really hate work, passionately, and still enjoy a conversation or exchange or dialog about work. It seems that anger comes from our disconnect rather than our connection to things, and stifling conversation does not rememdy that, but serves to worsen it.
back after september….
all the best
bob
YOUNG TOM…
i think we should do the bag thing…no joke..i mean, why not?? any downside?? Burn brand??? seems like easy construction and easy marketing…anything to lose??
.. in a short break from editing…
.. after a long time… i somehow still read here when I can but the need to “produce” make my free time … extremely rare.. and dedicate to close friend or reading. I didn’t stop following the essay here on burn, also from Lixeira. After finishing some main project my recent staying in Angola for more than a month was (Pat I understand you!) photographically.. quite a disaster but… not humanely and give me strong motivation and new life blood also for starting new projects.
Patricio I’m still going to Perpignan, I’m in contact with Audrey. So contact us and also without DAH we’ll manage to have a Burn meeting :) I’ll be there from Thursday morning.
BOB
Sorry my rather innocuous comment about DAH’s request that we only post one comment sat wrong with you. It was not meant as a personal criticism of any one poster, merely as a reflection on recent events. And, no, when writing such a comment I prefer not to point fingers at anyone by name. Seems to me that’s where too many of our negative back-and-forths have started. As they say, if the shoe fits, wear it. Otherwise let it slide…
Hope you return to us. Your reflections always add to the conversation. My best to Marina and Dima.
Patricia
BOB…PATRICIA…
the comment rules can be modified as we see fit…there is no overriding authority here..”this” is us….as you know, i have always just tried to make the comment system work in the best way for everyone here..there is absolutely no other agenda…the one comment rule, thought up by Jim in fact, did seem to keep things on track most of the time..that and registration has totally kept out the trolls…but, we can easily go back to unlimited comments under the essays if we want…the only downside to Burn for me has been the occasional slipping of the comment system towards “attack” rather than “critique”…Bob, you take it to heart as do i, but for many on the net it is totally “normal”….mostly, however, this attack does not happen..if you go back and carefully read comments, 95% are fine critique either pro or con to the photographer being published…we have weathered many a storm here on Burn…i think this one will blow over as have all the others…human nature does indeed go with the territory of being human…comments on a blog are just that…comments on a blog..let’s please keep all of this in perspective…and when in the next few months you see the edit of comments, you will think completely different about our conversations…and they will not be edited in a pro-Burn way, but in a way that shows serious discourse, which does happen most of the time….
Bob, i have read Marc’s new text…i am still trying to decide what to do…let’s have a phone chat in the next couple of days if you have time..Patricia, i will call you tomorrow…
peace amigos, david
… nothing has changed… always burning… :) but fire is life http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=CA&hl=en&v=ryLqfNwSSFE
LAURA MONTANORI..
so sorry to miss you in Perpignan…were i in Europe, i would surely go…but, for me to fly from here would take a week out of my life and a bit expensive too…so i just cannot justify even though i know it would be a pleasure..as much as i like to have fun, i have so much work to do, much of it for Burn…i will have more “fun” after i get all the work done..you know how that is….enjoy and big hugs from me to the Burn crowd in Perpignan…and as Ben Harper pleads, “burn one down” for me….
cheers, david
nor do i understand why this place is more about personality than photography
————————————-
Mirrors are not just for shaving, Bob! :-))))))
You, we, are personalities, reflected in, not so much what we write (99% forgotten, 1% for a point well made, a funny pun), but how we write it.
David … nothing to lose, except money (and I really feel that is unlikely if done with a good plan) … okay, doing what I do best, research …
I like the one comment rule. I think it provides the readers a space where we really stick to the subject at hand, and avoid one on one (or all on Jim!) and extraneous arguing that, AFAIC, is one of the ubiquitous facts of forum life on the net.
It also works better if we search an old essay or photo, want to read what was said without having to go thru dozens and dozens of ad libs derivative comments, that are basically answers to someone else, therefore a DIALOGUE.
People interested in what someone wants to add, know where is the latest thread in the forum section, which has accommodated further debates on an essay very efficiently so far.
If what is being added is so important, and the writer thinks we need to know absolutely, DROIT DE REPONSE!, we could accept a simple line like “see my reply (or new comment) in DIALOGUES”.
IMO.
Is there a photographer/journalist dating website?! Because while I will stay based in Bucharest, I feel I must look to other countries for friendship. There is no way to compete with guys driving top of the range BMWs. It’s totally out of control here with character, intellect and physique meaning absolutely nothing to women. As long as you have money and a $50,000-$200,00 car, you are golden. I only have Leicas and a Mac (my Imacon is in the States). I would love to meet a woman isn’t obsessed with symbols of wealth. I do have some money, so eating out and drinks and buying clothes and jewelry would not be a problem (within reason) but I just am not making enough money to buy a top of the line BMW or Mercedes like the men here in Bucharest. I promise I am cool and adventurous and pretty damn romantic too.
Davin,
Isn’t Madonna recently single? ;^}
Michael:
Ha! I’ve seen the pictures of Madonna around the pool at her hotel these past few days here in Bucharest with the young men who dance with her on tour. No chance there for me. I really need to look to anywhere else but East Europe. Women here tend to marry their own. The whole region is inordinately insular. The vibe here is nothing like in Western Europe. Walking around I feel as if I am in a closed circuit where I don’t know all the rules of conduct. It’s amazing what Western culture and globalization has done in a way for the world. I mean although I like the adventure of Romania, when one is in the West, everyone is sort of playing by the same rules. Here, I often feel a disconnect between me and the culture and people in the extreme. I suppose I could try to just sink my teeth into the place even more, but it would a great deal of effort to do so and I would need a huge increase the money I make.
Ok, Davin, you told us you are a foreigner, (maybe worse: an expat!), that we get, now tell us about the country/city/people, without “what you think” in it.
A bit as if you were…..Taking pictures! :-)))) (no, seriously)
DAH
Shooting Sports! Didn’t know you even had a long lens!
Shooting Sports! Didn’t know you even had a long lens!
—————————-
Sacrilege!!!! HCB is turning around in his grave… :-)))
Herve,
Well, Romanians at the Madonna concert booed her when she defended gypsy rights. Romanians hate Madonna and they hate gypsies. I don’t know what is much more backward than that. Romania continues to be a backwater. It is one of the most corrupt countries in Europe and the population largely remains insular and uneducated. Romanians have been brought up being told that the Roma are terrible and they continue to ostracize them from society. If Roma are allowed to get educations and are assimilatedinto society things will change. Madonna was doing the right thing, but most Romanians have no idea about being citizens of the world.
Davin,
Weird. Usually it is the uniqueness of the “outsider” that draws people. I thought you would have a built in aphrodisiac because of this! That is a peculiar country/culture then.
Good luck, anyway. Oh, and not to stereotype too much… but I’m guessing those dancers around Madonna have other interests in that regard! ;^}
Cheers.
Michael:
Romania is the oddest place I’ve ever been to. Totally bizarre. I wish I attracted Romanian women let me tell you! Unfortunately, I don’t own a $80,000 BMW. The oppression was so great under Ceausescu that when the economy finally began to pick up in the last few years with foreign investment, wealth and symbols of wealth became the end all and be all. Romania may be good for pictures and for adventure, but it is no place for an American in search of beginning a real life with a woman etc.
Michael,
Oh, you mean her male dancers are gay? These guys back in 1985 sure do:
DAVID AH —
You expressed some interest in helping student photographers, we haven’t gotten around to that discussion yet, but here’s a start (though probably not the best way).
The Media Arts department at my school has been approved funds for a speaker series, and I’m inviting you to participate if you’re ever in the Los Angeles area – it pays…
…roughly $100.
Like I said — if you’re ever in the area. ;)
pimp my leica..
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40796
JARED…
where are you in school?? i will be in San Francisco at the end of the month, but i do not think i will have time to come to L.A…but, maybe….in any case, i will be happy to come by when i can and no payment necessary….
cheers, david
Leica as art. I think blue would have been nicer. But red does make a statement!
Well, at least on the M8 they made the red dot black.
Patricia;
Funny you mentioned “drive-by shootings”, I just bought a book on auction called “Drive-by Shootings” (by Dave Bradford) on an auction. It looked interesting and was only $4, so grabbed it! It’s B&W work shot by a NY taxi driver while working.
http://www.amazon.com/Drive-Shootings-David-Bradford/dp/084160259X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251669598&sr=1-1
Ross, “drive-by s”, I remember when that book was reviewed in INTERVIEW, I come across it quite often in photo bins at my local used bookstores. Good idea it was.
While we are at it, i found a copy of HARRY GRUYAERT’s “Rencontres Indiennes”, a soft-bound color essay published in France in 1982, with good quality printing. A pretty good find (not on AMAZON) at 5 bucks. Pictures are travelogue type, mostly women and colorful saris, maybe a skeleton in his closet (like David’s Virginia)… :-)
DAVID,
A small community college just outside of LA in the San Fernando Valley. I’ll have to get on Panos’ case to influence you to make it down to LA. ;) Barrage of emails and text messages to commence…
What’s going on in San Fran again? Workshop? Not the worst drive ever, what are the dates? Oh yeah, the Momenta party you mentioned… Maybe I can get a peek at that Virginia book Herve was touting.
Jim, you’re right, it does make a statement. It says, ROB ME FIRST CUZ I AM STOOPIT, to anyone looking their next hit off the crack pipe.
Maybe I can get a peek at that Virginia book Herve was touting
————————————–
Ok, hmmm… time to change the conversation ;-)
HCB sighting, 5’42”, in one of my favorite films, RENOIR’s RULES OF THE GAMES:
“ou y a d’la gene, y a pas d’ plaisir!” (his line)
Herve;
I always wanted a copy of Richard Billingham’s “Ray’s a Laugh” til I found out I’d have to sell both kidneys to buy a copy! Mind you he doesn’t seem to have done a great deal since…
Second hand book stores a re a magnet for me; and i don’t go near Amazon unless my wallet containing credit card is securely wrapped up with duct tape…
Akaky; If that said “ROB ME FIRST CUZ I AM STOOPIT” what does this say? :-))
http://leicarumors.com/2009/08/25/leica-m6-sultan-of-negeri-brunei-darussalam-silver-jubilee-24ct-gold-edition-ebay-madness.aspx/
I posted this the other day, but you may have missed it…
Cheers!
Tom asked the other day what image you’d put up if you were only allowed one image on a wall. I don’t think anyone replied? Well here’s mine.
http://www.photographersgallery.com/photo.asp?id=31
I know many may say that Bert Hardy’s work is “old style” but I love his eye for the subtle and the humanity in his images. Very under-rated I feel…
Photography is the only art where some of the most seminal achievements are out of our price range, or out of any market, ie. acknowledged but never known, even though, more than any other art, Photography is synonymous with reproduction.
Just a thought.
JARED…
yes, i have a Momenta workshop in San Francisco starting the 25th.. intense 4 day affair…
your quest for the Virginia book will cancel out all my good feelings about coming to your school…laughing….well, i did see Jack Nicholson with a one line part as an insurance salesman in a tv episode of Mayberry RFD with Andy Griffith….
why don’t you and Panos jump in a car and drive up to SF??
cheers, david
why don’t you and Panos jump in a car and drive up to SF??
———————–
That would be cool, but let’s warn Panos: we don’t DO autographs in San Francisco. Likewise, no sycophantry in having David signing my book, pure investment…..
:-))
…laughing…
…laughing…
:)
u guys made my day…
Ok, back to work…
2 more hours left…
So is that a yes Panos?
I expect you started the text barrage on cue….
Jared..
First of all you promised me
tostadas and tacos in El Taurino..
How about mañana night???
Then we’ll decide…:)))
JARED….
i am not quite sure why i suggested Panos and you driving up to SF…as you may know, the last time i did a workshop in California, i spent the better part of one night trying to get Panos out of jail…now mind you Panos was totally innocent of the charge of interfering with the law…he was just trying to take a picture of a woman who had been attacked by a dog and was being treated by a med team and Panos, in my opinion, was behaving himself totally…i saw the whole thing…i tried to explain to the cops that Panos was just exercising his rights as a free American, but they were going to arrest me too if i said “one more word” in Panos’ defense…now mind you that being innocent means nothing once the cops have handcuffed you…they cannot back down at that point, otherwise they look silly…i was tempted to push it and would not have minded being arrested, knowing my rights and knowing no crime had been committed, but alas my students (including Haik) were waiting for me in class, so off to jail Panos went..alone….one month later, his case was thrown out of court for lack of any reason that he was arrested in the first place, just as we all knew…..now, approximately 10 months before that, i was with Herve in Paris and the French police questioned him aggressively for taking a picture as well…they thought he had photographed them and were not happy…Herve did not go to jail, but the police only left him alone because we were in the middle of a Magnum party…point is Jared, you have your education to complete…are you sure you want to hang out with Panos, Herve, and yours truly?? we are two for two in negative scenarios with the law…travel at your own risk amigo….unless you love Hunter S. Thompson, stay away from this crowd….
cheers, david
Whats this? I’m away for a couple of days on a weekend – usually a quieter time on burn, and I miss two pages of comments! Including David telling someone he shouldn’t hang around this crowd? Awe come on now! Panos is a great guy! I’m telling you this even though I’ve never met him – but he seems fun and crazy to hang out with :D I’m sure sitting in a car going for a ride up the coast wouldn’t be boring! And David Alan Harvey – Well I happen to know he’s pretty cool and If I were with them and He was arrested I’d find some way to join them :)
Jared
School is MEANT to be a place of experience and education! :) What better than first hand?
Plus, David is exercising what is called reverse psychology. I think he’d be more than delighted if this online family became closer knit and actually did more in person. I like the idea of finding friends and just going shooting – or “shooting the shit.” We do that here in Green Bay, we have a great camera club that meets when we can and occassionally we’ll just pick up a new person just because we happened to be meeting and they noticed. We have no requirements, no regulations on who can join. got a camera? Love photography? lets go do something then! we have a large community consisting on black and white art photogs, journalists/documenteriest, wedding shooters, and hobbyists. we all learn from each other and we all have something to share.
Patricia,
Thank you for the insight! everytime I shoot this, I can’t help but think – who’s ever going to see this? Who’s going to care? But I can’t help myself – I must shoot. It’s what I do. Nearly everyone in the family knows this so It’s come to a point no one pays much attention to me and my camera. there are no cheesy smiles or the like. :) I get to shoot them being them. This weekend we had rummage sales to sell off some of the stuff from my mom’s house and It wasn’t entirely successful due to some weather, but it helped. I was able to get some good shots from that.
A question for ALL
I’ve come across some photographers – mainly those who are newer… Who say they don’t want to tell a story. They shoot art photos – they like to set up scenes and photograph these posed possibilities. But there is never a story they can think of…
Now I feel that in order to have a great meaningful photograph, a story must be tied to it in someway.
for instance – a photo of a posed creation – would you agree that a back story about the situation in the photo would help the photographer shoot the photograph with more passion and more stuff would reach the viewer?
This is something I’ve JUST been reasoning in my head for about a month now. I think that’s where I need to grow next – Figuring out what my story in prior to shooting my shot. Or if I were strictly an artist I feel I would need to create a story – maybe only a fraction of one. before I took my shot. Since the situation is fictional, wouldn’t more come out of that photograph if it were shot like a movie would be? set the scene, set the props, set the situation to make it as realistic as I need…
In documentary or journalism – it’s a little different – sometime you may be working on a story to tell just by using pre-obtained knowledge through research and investigation. or it maybe an unfolding story that you learn more as you go… but I think every successful photograph has a story it’s telling. Would you agree?
David – Is this part of what Authorship is?
Hi all
Am popping in to send well wishes – am on vacation but am thinking of you all and am quite sure you are holding down the fort! I only have my phone so can’t see the essays, but did just catch up a little on the chat. Some interesting thoughts, like the one about film speed. When I was shooting a job with the d700 a couple of weeks ago I had the thrill of shooting pretty wide open and at 6000 asa or something at night – in color, it added an entirely new element. Loved it! That said I have a box of 120 pan f Asa 50 right here waiting for the holga :)
Tom, I think sending the print is the right thing to do – kindness is always the way…but, I think omitting the return info is best – I taught yoga to the boys behind bars and I did the same..
Over and out to all you kittens, be good.
Oh! Patricia…
I think taking a break is just fine, but if it makes you anxious, shoot something entirely for fun in a way you haven’t before…
:)
malaka…
you’re back from seattle?
DAVID
Let me start by saying I greatly appreciate your concern. I’m well aware of the risks involved in such a decision. At 31 I’m just finishing up a two-year degree, so it’s safe to say I prefer the education of life over the education of a classroom…
I have some stories from life that would rival Hunter S’s and look forward to adding to them at the end of the month. I’ll be there, by hook or by crook. ;)
HAIK,
the funniest!!!
” who do I shoot so Panos goes to San Fran jail? :)))
Oime, you have been missed …
JASONH,
Thanks…I would “kill” to have a ride with any of you BURNIANS along the coast …
hmmmm…not really…Laughing like a true BURNIAN
EMCD,
Enjoy!!!
LOS ANGELES BURNIANS,
how are u doing ??? We are sending you good energy.
JARED,
this is a YES :)))
Be careful out there. May the Universe be good and the fires go down…
To all in THE BURNING AREAS:
Be careful out there. May the Universe be good and the fires go down…
and the funniest of all:
the only …the one…MR.D.A .HARNEY:
“…are you sure you want to hang out with Panos, Herve, and yours truly?? we are two for two in negative scenarios with the law…travel at your own risk amigo…”
Where are you Akaky???
and I need Mr.Tom Hyde to finish the job…
with feta and beer
dellicson-
Are all the girls/guys like that? I mean…you must be able to get out of the bigger towns and find some nice farmer’s daughters :-)…hey the beach boys even advised this in their old hit “California Girls”
DAH-
getting arrested story is wonderful, especially the different reactions from the U.S. and Parisian police. Have you ever photographed a riot in Paris?? You don’t have to leave Paris to photograph war.
Photographing riots is boring…………now rioting well/! that is the fun part
especially the different reactions from the U.S. and Parisian police
————————–
IMO, more about personal Karma than anything else… When you belonged to a band called the Cavemen, like Panos did, something got to give, you must spend time in jail at some point in your life! :-))))
Panos —
tomorrow is terrible for tacos but Tuesday night works if that’s good for you and Haik… Cars in the shop again, so give me heads up if we’re on.
Hi Everyone! I took a break this weekend but just logged on. I just want to thank you all for taking the time to engage with my work, to make constructive comments, to air your critiques and to share other projects and photographer’s work with me. The most helpful part was the pretty much full on consensus that the statement sucked (ha!) and I read it again and appreciate that it needs work, especially matching up to what I’m really doing with the work and matching the intentions. I have also learned a difficult lesson – Do not post a project before it is ready to get posted!!! and – really think about whether or not Burn and the website in general is the best way to show this project in particular (versus an exhibition space or a book). When the editor of Le Monde in Paris contacted me and wanted to publish several of these images in their special edition magazine about the United States (which included images by Chris Jordan, Tyler Hicks, Theo Volpatti and others) I was very flattered and I was very happy with the layout in their Magazine (see Le Monde Jan/Feb 2009) . But being on Burn has presented a different and humbling critique (probably good for me)! And one that is good to hear and I appreciate it. I do stand by my approach to photographing the homes and I know it’s not for everyone but I personally love it and I love the Becher’s “Water Towers” and “Typologies of Industrial Buildings”; Zoe Leonard’s “Analogue” project; Robert Adams “Turning Back”, and many other projects that seem to bring out polarized reactions. Lisa – I greatly appreciate your long, thoughtful letter to me. I hear what you are saying on many points. As I was in the darkroom yesterday printing all my contact sheets from a recent trip to Denver I thought about them. I guess my approach to photographing the homes seems cold and as you say ‘making light’ of this terrible situation and that I photograph them in a ‘standoffish’ manner. I don’t think of it that way at all. I put a lot of time and effort into researching homes, visiting the homes sometimes with real estate agents, setting up my camera, tripod, ladder, and taking a ‘portrait’ of the home. They are absolutely documents and I completely disagree with you there. My ‘bearing witness’ (I do not totally agree with your definition of this) is my act of standing in front of the home (that was either long-abandoned due to economic decline or foreclosed) and taking the image. The abandoned home, the foreclosed home is the evidence of people’s lives, the crises, evictions, memories, personal histories, etc. For me architecture holds many layers of stories, emotion, and say so much about people and our times. The homes are inherently human – people lived there, people lost them and I certainly think of that when I see the images and when I take them. The only ‘conceptual’ approach I have here is to produce many homes in the same way and in the same light. You might not like the approach or think I’m successful at conveying in the image what I’m writing about here (as many have criticized) but this is how I chose to document these homes. We could actually get into an interesting conversation about this (what is documentary????) so maybe I will send an email to your personal email (I checked out your website – nice work on there…) I also want to say a special thanks to Patricia – long-time Detroiter!!! I enjoyed your comments very much and I think everyone who lives in this country needs to visit Detroit to see what’s what. Can you lead us on a tour? Bob – THANKS, THANKS for you positivity and for understanding an appreciating my work. I’d like to keep in touch and I really enjoyed seeing the work of that older Canadian photog. I didn’t know about him. For those that didn’t like the project I totally respect that too! Peace to all and good luck with all of your work. I hope to see what you are all up to so post your links! Best Regards, Eve
EVE…
i am just up and having my morning coffee and trying to figure out what to do with my life….scanned the NYT, and then just read your comment…
i can only say one thing…
you are one class act….humble yet strong in your convictions…
i will be in San Francisco late this month, so i do hope we can meet…
cheers, david
Eve said: “The abandoned home, the foreclosed home is the evidence of people’s lives, the crises, evictions, memories, personal histories, etc. For me architecture holds many layers of stories, emotion, and say so much about people and our times. The homes are inherently human – people lived there,”
The problem is, and I struggle with that as well, that the emotion you feel standing in front of these houses is not conveyed to me by your photos. I share your feelings about empty and abandoned houses and structures, but when I look at the photos, they are just photos. Perhaps in a gallery where the sheer weight of dozens and dozens of these displayed really big, but even there I don’t think I would want to look at more than a few derelict houses.
I think there are so many photos of derelict structures because we have such strong feelings standing in and near them. Unfortunately, it rarely works to convey that feeling through images. I’m also not sure the story you are trying to tell with all these images is completely truthful. Our country is in a constant state of flux. Communities grow and decline, centers of commerce and industry shift and evolve, there is a movement from rural to urban areas, and back again. From urban to suburban and back again. This has been going on since the beginning of our country.
Seventy years ago there was a large logging community near where I live. There were over 10,000 people there. But the logging industry moved on, and now there is no trace of that community except an historical marker. The people moved on, most I’m sure to middle class lives in suburban and urban areas.
What you are creating is a snapshot in time, without a reference in your photos to the cause and effect that resulted in the abandoned homes in your snapshot. Without reference to why these people moved on and what their lives became. Like all history, you are seeing and conveying it through the lens of your feelings and perspectives. Feelings and perspectives influenced by a particular time in history, with the recession and repossessions. But in a generation, when the current situation has been forgotten, there will remain only images of derelict houses, and puzzled observers wondering why anyone would have spent so much time taking photos of so many of them.
JAMES CHANCE…
very few essays that are published here are completed works…most are works in progress as so stated….i too would be critical , even more critical than most of you, of much work that i do indeed publish on Burn…as a matter of fact, if i think of the 150 or so essays that we have published here on Burn in the last 8 months, i can think of only ONE of them that is totally unassailable…if, when, we do a printed version of Burn, then you will see a very tight edit of the best of the best…work is published here to stimulate discussion, help the photographer, and allow many to see work they might not otherwise have seen….with all of the photographers out there, and i see many many works, there is not enough finalized “great” work…most work that i see is “almost” but not quite…but, what i do want to do is let a photographer “fly” with what they think is their best and then see how the audience reacts…just as i did with your cemetery story which as you know i thought was “almost”….in this case with Manuel, i thought seeing rural Georgia was just simply a different vision of what i see in the news and with 2 or 3 fairly strong singles and the rest were “point pictures”…in any case, thanks for your comment….
cheers, david
DAH
(trying to figure out what to do…) you could answer the interview questions if you have time :).
JIM…
first, many thanks for a thoughtful well written comment….it is EXACTLY this type of comment that i so so encourage…dissent, but with explanation and reference and aplomb….while i may have a different opinion about your conclusion, i appreciate the fact that you took the time to totally explain your reservations about this type of work and in clear connection with the subject at hand…
as Eve said, large prints in an exhibition would most likely do more justice to this work than seeing them in this format…i could imagine being surrounded by four walls of very large prints and feeling like i was in a neighborhood….
time passing, history changing, probably affects all work…..but, i would not worry about that too much…we still view Evans, R.Adams, Eggleston, Christenberry (her references) out of context of the time in which they were taken, and the power of the imagery still stands….Eve has shown only one aspect of abandonment…why should she be responsible for every aspect??? other photographers can and do take on other responsibilities….
in any case, again, i do appreciate your responsible reply…
cheers, david
ERICA…
oh oh …ok, will try to do today..i have a book forward to write and then i will answer your questions if i still have the energy to write…if not, then tomorrow coffee time will be best…i cannot write in the afternoon….you are so so patient…
cheers,david
I LOVE YOU EVE !!!
You walk the walk and you talk the talk.
Our Patricia,
my white eagle …VIVA DETROIT !!!
JIM POWERS,
I am so proud of you!!!
BURNIANS,
damnit…I LOVE YOU you YOU
I am drinking water today …LOVE
EVE
As David says, you are one class act! And as Civilian, our very own Greek philosopher, says, we love you! Anytime you or any Burnian wants an inside view of Detroit, just let me know. I’d be honored to show you “my” Detroit. And if anyone is a jazz lover, come to the Big D this Labor Day weekend. We’ll be celebrating the 30th anniversary of the Detroit International Jazz Festival, the largest free jazz festival in North America!!! Three days and four nights of jazz with a little Motown thrown in — this IS Detroit, after all — on five stages in Hart Plaza and along the Woodward Ave. corridor to Campius Martius Park. Check it out and come on down. I’ll be there every minute of every day! You can’t miss me — I’ll be the white-haired woman riding a scooter with a grin plastered from ear-to-ear on her wrinkled face!!
http://www.detroitjazzfest.com/
Patricia
ROSS,
A camera like that is God’s way of telling you you have way too much money.
I guess all the hell of Bucharest I’ve been experiencing is paying off. Just landed a 5 figure gig here. Rent paid for the next year, living expenses paid for the next year. . . now, where is that Romnanian woman?
One aspect that we have not mentionned is the necessary passage of time needed to comment properly, books or photos, on such “crisis” as preoccupy us nowadays (a lot of other subjects as well), and the art and literature it inspires.
There is so much photography done nowadays, moreover so much emerging, budding professional photography, that photographers seem to feel the need to make a project on just about everything (therefore projecting thoughts and comments), at a time when mere reporting should only be the concern.
I do think if we look at Eve’s project, her underlying text, it illustrates that propension.
To make my point in the simplest manner, it’s as if when we took a picture, we at the very same time would comment not just what we are saying, but describe it and and tell others (loud enough, I guess) already what it’s about. Not realizing that we imposed with our thoughts much signification and interpretation on the signs/facts seen inside the frame.
With that type of subject, which claims no “life and death” urgency, tt is very simply absolutely impossible to judge Eve’s pictures, and what is being shown in them. Later, yes, it will be possible. 10 years, even more.
Which of course goes against the fact that as an emerging P. Eve, and so many others on so many different subjects, need to start a career, need to be acknowledged and employed. Not in 10 years.
That is the danger in what has been proposed as the new working stance for photographers. Namely producing a completely packaged project, be one’s own information unit, and running the chance of too early a completion, too early an interpretation on a subject. Not to mention curbing the viewer’s imagination by controlling as many parameters as possible.
Congrats, Davin. The worse thing in the world is an unemployed expat. the greatest one, an employed one. You just proved it again in less than 24 hours! :-)))
That romanian woman was waiting for whine to change into wine. Go and multiply!
:-)))))
Ok… Done deal..
JARED, HAIK..
we are going to join HERVE and DAH
up in Frisco…
Something’s gonna happen..
so let’s make it happen..
Laughing…
Cavemen Karma.. Herve is right..
May Hunter’s spirit be with us…
let’s do this
Panos, I never ask you anything, but please, do not say Frisco.
It sounds as if you visited it 50+ years ago, or are a tourist from Greece… Whichever comes the closest! :-)
Ok.. Deal:)
and you also please don’t say the word
“Wagner” when I’m around or at least until
I get the M9..
:))))
HERVE…PANOS…HAIK….JARED
and all i ever wanted to do was to take a few pictures in my neighborhood with my little Brownie Hawkeye….hmmmmmmmmm…
And speaking of the Armenian Genocide..
does anyone remembers who committed the crime against the Armenians?
my memory escapes me…:(
PANOS
From 1914-15, one to one and a half million Armenians who resided in the Ottoman Empire (present-day Turkey) were systemically killed, some through massacres and others on inhumane forced marches out of the country. As I understand it, Turkey to this day refuses to acknowledge this horrible chapter in its history.
I’m interested — Why do you ask?
Patricia
Ah, now I see why you asked. I had not yet looked at Ara’s essay…
Patricia
does anyone remembers who committed the crime against the Armenians?
———————————
Mostly who’s denying it still?
Actually, now reading BLOOD & SOIL, by Ben Kiernan, which is about the history of genocides since biblical times (God loved extermination, not sure when he got touchy-feely). Kiernan is one of the expert and scholars of the Cambodian genocide, and 100 pages into his book, it confirms that it is a fact of civilization, rather always carefully, rationally planned, ideologically sound, more than an explosion of hatred, reminding us of what Hannah Arendt (I think it’s her) called the banality of evil.
A great Armenian, and a great song:
Ara’s essay.
I know you don’t have to, but it would be nice for once that the people who are totally conquered with an essay tell us what is in the pictures, the photography that grips them (not how you feel, but why we should feel).
There is a hint for me that Ara is not just playing out nostalgia, or longing, that his states of mind (as I see the pictures so far, taking my time) are reflected in his compositions, in all their complexity, not simplicity, even though the rural nature of much of the pictures invites such simplicity in receiving his pictures.
Could this essay also touch upon contradictions, or at least distances (as happens often when questions or claims of identity are raised). What is, for us readers, identifying and what is identity?
HERVE…
i might be misunderstanding you (as i often do), but are you asking that reviewers of this essay tell you why or what you should feel?? to tell you “what is in the pictures?? it seems to me that Ara gave a brief but complete statement of his motives…it seems to me also that it would be pretty impossible not to see how powerful these photographs are in their very BEING: contextually, emotionally, and structurally…so, a concise photographer statement and resonate photographs would seem to be enough would they not?? for me , over analysis is worse than just absorbing the photographs for what they obviously are as photographs…you are a very astute man, well read, etc….so i would imagine that you would see that visual literacy is the responsibility of the viewer, just as much as is the authorship of the photographer…
cheers, david
Ah, the Brownie Hawkeye. Cameras have such boring names now.
Herve. I am not interested in de-constructing a picture to try and work out which particular tone value is the one that makes me cry. If turning pictures into cryptic crossword clues that need to be solved is your thing then thats fine, but its certainly not mine. These pictures move me and I FEEL them, and i appreciate the craft in them….Thats all i need them to do.
and with the greatest respect
” I know you don’t have to, but it would be nice for once that the people who are totally conquered with an essay tell us what is in the pictures, the photography that grips them (not how you feel, but why we should feel).” ….sorry but i must be incredibly shallow and uncouth because i dont really give a shit what anyone else should feel about the work i like. Nor do i wonder why i feel what i feel.
Just an uncultured thug i guess.
john
GORDON…
i still have that Hawkeye camera and the shutter works, but alas no 620 film…too bad, because it is a bit “better” than a Holga and yet sufficiently soft…maybe i will publish one of my Hawkeye pictures sometime…oddly, later in college, one of my nicknames was Hawkeye…but, i do not think it had anything to do with photography….hmmmmm,
cheers, david
Did somebody say Brownie?
http://michaelkircherphoto.blogspot.com/
Heh-heh!
MICHAEL KIRCHER…
wow!! yes, that’s it!!! nice post…funny….thanks…
Davin; Congratulations, I’m really pleased for you. Again your perseverance has paid off, good on you!
David; I’m playing with an Agfa Isoly at the moment only cost NZ$17 (US$12). Meant to be “slightly better” than my Holga :- ) I’m looking forward to getting the first negs back in a week or so. I’m also trying a bit of slide film in it too. Takes 120 film, so no problems finding film!
David
All is not lost!
If you can find a few old 620 spools you can re-spool 120 film onto them. Same size film, just different spool core sizes. HAWKEYE LIVES!
GORDON…
really?? off to search the net…..
GORDON…
many thanks…i can even get the actual 620 film in new york..no need to re-spool….i had no idea….i thought i remembered the film to be about the same size, but i did not know it was exactly the same…well, Burn has some value after all…again, thank you….
cheers, david
HEY EVE
Cheers for the reply and yes, we may disagree but good for you for standing your ground.
As I have already apologised for the rather nasty way the first comment (my internet connection lost a lot of it) came across, I hope you can accept I was not actually being ‘venomous’ but kind of pissed off ‘cos of technology!
My letter to you was meant as a stimulant to dialogue and I am grateful you have seen it that way!
I agree with David, that you are a ‘class act’ for not holding a grudge and for expressing yourself about your work more thoroughly.
Hmmmm, I guess part of my issue with the body of work you are doing is that I can just see it in a gallery where the nuance of large format would better describe the emotional idea that you have just again said you are trying to get across.
I also have done a series of architectural images, yes, even though I am not thought of as a large format photographer I documented my area in 2002 on an old 4X5 bellows camera. Displayed as large format prints (1m by 150cm) they looked far more impressive and tell a different story to how they look on my website. (you can see them under the title “shadowlands”) I think they look like shit on the website and only have them there so people can read the poem that runs underneath it. They actually did look their absolute best as ephemeral images that were projected in large format as well. I reckon its an atmosphere thing.
Now given that we have both worked with large format architectural photographs in an effort to describe something of the lives of the people who have dwelt within, I believe that it is a exercise in conceptual thinking and it is not a document of the lives of the people but an imagination of their lives that I am trying to describe… See what I mean? So to me shooting buildings is not ‘bearing witness’ but an exercise in all of the less tangible senses…
Anyway thats why the work confused me… I am starting to wonder that if those ‘artist statements’ are worth the angst..
I would be interested to hear what everyone else had to say about the ‘bearing witness’ thing… Poor old Mr N… seems like he has been slapped with his catch phrase in just the same way as HCB who tried for ever to recant the ‘decisive moment’!
Wonder if I will ever get one, a catch phrase I mean… perhaps something along the the lines of ‘VB please’! (or- ‘the art is the empathy’-) hehehehe….
go
girlies
go…..
great stuff….
thanks for the thoughts….
xox
LOS ANGELES PEOPLE,
we are here to help you. Stay strong and stay away from the flames.
I know it hurts, I know you are angry, I know you feel helpless
BUT
I know there is a light and there is hope.
BURN GIRLIES,
You are hot, you are strong,you are FIERCE with Hawkeyes:))) !!!
Why can’t we see what’s in front of our eyes…hmmmmmmmm…….
Thank you for the Brownie Michael Kircher…nice blog
TO OUR ARMENIAN friends ,
We love you
Our Patricia,
I am Greek but you are the Philosopher !!!
P.S Someone has birthday pretty soon …but I don’t remember …hmmm
I want to party …PARTYYYYYYYYYYYY
PARTYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
CIVI,
We, BURNing Armenians, love you too :)
David and all,
I am back. Have been busy with the cool stuff some call day job. But crunch is over.
I read the words you have about the FINISH. For me, it has always been easy to finish as long as I can find the START. My worst nightmare is finding the beginning which, for me, means to run through the details, chew on some possibilites, and obviously see the FINISH. If any of these isn’t clear, i too easily give up.
Most of the time I find myself circling around but never in the middle where the start suppose to be. It is the start that challenges me the most. Once i cross that line – I can’t stop. This is for everything in my life. It’s a property of all things I do. I do not start if I don’t see the finish line even if it is virtually invisible from where I stand.
BURNers, do any of you have a problem with finding the start ?
sorry but i must be incredibly shallow and uncouth because i dont really give a shit what anyone else should feel about the work i like
—————————–
Why the rude answer again? Unfortunatley having misunderstood me too. Sharing is all I meant.
That’s the reason for being here, especially us regulars. And I did not mean YOU, we are quite a few to comment here. it is just that the 4 first commenters on the essay were extremely succinct, between a treaty on deconstruction and sharing a little more, there’s a difference.
I dunno, if you are right, maybe keep the comments under essays to one…Line?
:-)
BTW, Jim, what you wrote this morning, sharing your thoughts, was a great post. I forgot to say that earlier.
yup it sure sounds like you Herve …… quote with the right changes “i must be incredibly shallow and a shit because i dont really give a shit about anyone else should feel like”
LISA…
if i could see you , i would hug you…..
HAIK…
yea, finding the start ain’t easy either…i am up this morning and trying to figure out where to start…i would shave, but see i am out of razors…i should feed the cat, but i am out of cat food and she is crying…i have six serious letters and one proposal to write, but am not in the mood….my house needs a major cleanup, but i will water the plants instead….i am so far behind in editing that i will never catch up….my car is in the shop, my bike has a flat tire, and my washing machine is broken…hmmmmm, how about back to bed???
cheers, david
…fondle a camera ?
DAVID
I am familiar with your current mindset. Felt that way a lot while living on Hilton Head Island. I called it island fever. It was always cured by getting off the island and back to the real world….
But feed the cat before you go….
LISA
In the interview with Antonin Kratochvil that I posted a link to earlier, he says
“I empathize with people who are being fucked,” I don’t know if he would consider this his catch phrase, but damn it is a good one. I know he was being serious and he photographs serious subjects, but I could not stop smiling. Probably because of the raw honesty.
The whole quote was: “I empathize with people who are being fucked,” he says. “When I photograph them, I am photographing myself.”
Probably make a great title for a book.
PETE…
you are suggesting i come back to the “real world”?? even as a teenager i had one friend who kept telling me “Harvey, you do not live in the real world”…hmmmmm….don’t you think it is a bit too late?? what would i do there? mostly…why??
cheers, david
DAVID
“Real World” is probably a relative term, but island life just does not seem to come close. While I think places like the Outer Banks, Hilton Head, Hawaii or Tahiti are all great. Wonderful places to visit and decompress, I personally find them detrimental to the thought processes and motivation that most photographers and photojournalists need. Again, at least it was for me.
If course if you are a seaside wildlife photographer then it is probably a good place to live.
Don’t misunderstand. I find island life relaxing and beautiful. A nice place to visit. I just can’t live there for long.
MR.DAVID.H,
It’s just the beginning …
You are in a new place…you will adjust…eventually
Enjoy and take it like a pro…Anyways, you are so all over the Universe
there is no reason to even sweat about …
Whatever you are going through now,is so “laughable” …check back after 3 months.
I will do the same …
HAIK,
Do you have any lost brothers or sisters…somewhere…???
You sound like you are my twin .
and I think there are more like us …out there…damnit…I am not alone…
PARTYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
with BURNIANS, DavidB,Katie,Lassal,KAtharina,SidneyA,MikeR,MyGracie,Katia,Pomara,Andrea,
Abele,Reimar,Laura,Annie,Kerry,John…WHERE ARE YOU ???
WE NEED YOU BURNIANSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Pete,
Not so sure being on an island is detrimental to the thought process of p and pj’s… Maybe that drive (frenzy?) to move to always different places is exactly why in the end the same type of stories are being photographed over and again.
I believe that being on an island, whatever form that may take (there are many islands surrounded by land), on the contrary helps one to dig in and to dig deep.
WHERE ARE you BURNIANS???
yes, more BURNIANS !!!
CARRIE ROSEMAN ,VALERY RIZZO ,CHARLES PETERSON ,ASHER PRESTON MERCHANT,
JOE ,CHRIS BICKFORD ,MIKE HALMINSKI,CHARLIE MAHONEY ,STUPID PHOTOGRAPHER,ERIC ESPINOZA,
JONATHAN JK, ANDREW SULLIVAN ,JAMES CHANCE ,MARTIN BRINK ,PAUL TREACY ,MIKE BERUDE
STELIOS,KIRIL SUROV,IAN AITKEN,MEDFORD TAYLOR,JEREMY WADE SHOCKLEY ,MATT MCLNNIS
JOHN LANGMORE,TIM RIPLEY,KURT LENGFIELD ,WROBERTANGEL ,
ANDREW B ,SPACE COWBOY
Pete,
(sorry if this appears twice but my modest contribution didn’t get through the first time)
Not so sure about islands being detrimental to the thought process of p and pj’s. Maybe it is that frenzy of always going to the next place which ends up with photographers often telling the same kind of stories over and again.
Islands, whatever they are (there are many islands surrounded by land), allow one to dig in and to dig deep. Maybe because there is no other way out, but mainly because things are more concentrated…
And some new Blood…
DQ…
PARTYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
DAVID
thats when you go out and shoot…..
after getting cat food….
the house can wait…
the unshaved,
rough look
is in……
xox
PETE…
interesting…well, i still have the loft in NYC and i do have a pretty eclectic international travel schedule amigo, so i do not see myself as exactly island locked…frankly, i find that living closer to nature is quite provocative for the thinking process…and being alone with nature is not lonely…quite the contrary….my sons both live nearby ( international filmmakers/travelers by profession) and i would not trade that for anything….
besides, i get more actual work done here than i do in new york where i am easily distracted as well as easily stimulated(often by the wrong stuff)….there is no NYC style “culture” down here, but i find that watching the weather change dramatically and the flowing of the grasses and some good body surfing etc creates its own culture….
my darkroom will be finished in a few days and i will start work on some collectors prints and handmade books…
when i am here in this old house and looking at the light playing on the dunes, i become very very selective about when i leave and do something else…but for sure, i will do a magazine assignment later this year and early next…so, i am not excluding the so called “real world”…just keeping it in perspective, just perspective….
motivation?? i shoot everyday here…i do not shoot every day in new york….i have always told photographers, as you well know, that your own backyard is as good as someone else’ backyard…funny…when i am in new york, people often say “well, this is a nice place to visit, but i wouldn’t want to live here” and some say, as you, the same about down here at the beach..
everyone must find their bliss…. for me, this surely beats whatever is in second place…
hmmmmmm, now i have flights to book for San Francisco, Mexico and Thailand/Cambodia….i will be in new york all of october…i am already starting to miss island life….
please come and visit….just do not stay too long!!!
cheers, david
WENDY….
am i going to see you in California?? i will be way way up north in SF, but maybe maybe…..
hugs, david
DAH,
I’m with you! I got to visit the Outer Banks a couple of years ago for a week and loved it… I don’t know why anyone would ever leave unless they had to…
If you have a 620 spool, you try using that on the take-up side of your Brownie. I’ve got an old old Argus Super Seventy-Five that will accept 120 on the supply side (albeit a tight fit) with a 620 take-up spool. (Next time I will take some tin snips to the the edges of the plastic 120 spool to see if it will fit better.)
He’s a project for a rainy day (after you clean house :-)
http://mconnealy.com/vintagecameras/hawkeyeflash/page2.html
Imants, thanks for your sollicitation, but it was not my quote, just copy and paste from John G’s…
Off to work…
“Islands, whatever they are (there are many islands surrounded by land), allow one to dig in and to dig deep.”
“rough look is in”
“I find island life relaxing …I just can’t live there for long.”
“i shoot everyday here…”
“I empathize with people who are being fucked,”
WHAT ARE YOU DRINKING BURNIANS???
I want the same :)))
VIVA HERVE,
My middle name is Copy and Paste…
DAVID
espero que si……..
***
DAVID… Are you avail to SKYPE?
JUSTIN…
i found out i can buy 620 film straight up from B&H in new york..what would life be like without B&H??
PETE..
no skype…i am watching seagulls fly by….
You’re watching seagulls… I’m watching cormorants! Well, was watching them earlier!
David
I had a look at the B&H site, it appears to be 120 film, hand-spooled onto 620 spools, then wrapped in aluminum foil. Pricy! They even have film for my old pony 828, my first camera with focusing, adjustable aperture and shutter. 8 35mm size shots on a tiny roll.
I think I’ll restrict my nostalgia shooting to 35mm. Fuji 400 film and processing at Costco for less than ten bucks.
Justin,
Argus super seventy-five. Another great name, though my all time favourite was my “Splendid-flex” an plastic 127 size twin lens reflex made in Hong Kong.
Oops, I almost forgot my Voigtlander Brilliant!…and my ancient Kodak Retina,….my Pearl River,……
I am watching vultures!!!
Gordon, I’ve never used those cameras, but am familiar with them (except the Splendid-flex). My only “complete” rangefinder kit is the lowly Argus C-44 with 35, 50, & 100mm lenses :-)
I have a old Kodak Pony model C in 135 that lives in my glovebox with cheap Fuji 200. No batteries to worry about dying on me…
Burnians in Perpignan,
I’ll be at Café de la poste with Laura, Patricio, Brent, Jean,… this thursday 3 about 6 pm
Hope to meet you!
David, If you have a moment, I would like to send you my new photos… I hope to see you very soon…
GORDON…
yes, i guess a bit pricey, but somehow i cannot imagine taking too much of my life re-spooling film…i want to shoot just a few Hawkeye pictures anyway….
Nature is a great restorative and an inspirational force. When I was primarily shooting nature I’d be out in all weathers shooting seals, penguins, frogs; all manner of beasties. I eventually got bored with shooting natural history, I figured the world didn’t need any more animal portraits… I decided I’d rather watch and experience nature.
I still shoot/write conservation stories because I feel there is a point to them. I really enjoy shooting people and urban stories now, probably because I spent so many years shooting natural history.
The funny thing was, I would travel all over NZ & even the Sub-Antarctic shooting rare wildlife, yet hardly ever sold any of those images. What sold repeatedly were the small critters in my backyard; spiders, bees, frogs etc!
However; getting out into nature is still a passion. I’m fortunate to live on a few acres of farm land that I planted up to attract birds, insects etc. So there is always something flitting in or out. I feed the small birds on apples and have established a small colony of whistling tree frogs on the property.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litoria_ewingi
About a week ago I was wandering around the property and was amazed to see an extremely rare NZ falcon chasing a starling around. I watched it for about 5 minutes; it totally blew me away. I’d only ever seen 3 before; all in very remote places, not in open dairy farming land.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karearea
At the moment I’m watching a couple of tiny silvereyes chowing down on some apples for breakfast (it’s 7.40am here)
Cheers
Long time reader, first time commenter. Love BURN!
Just wanted to share this series of images from the Sacramento Bee. Some powerful & sad images of the wildfires in southern California and their effect on people’s lives. Tragic. I live in California and feel saddened by the inferno.
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/photos/2009/08/california-wildfires.html
Audry! I will try to come by at cafe post on thursday! hope i will recognize you..or you me! looking forward to it.
Almost midnught… I’m watching…a grey PC screen.
DAH Thank you .. we’ll burn one down
AUDREY I’m so happy for the meeting. WE have a small regret not to have all the people we met last year (Lassal etc…) but… going there for us it’s so close (4€ one way from Rome) and easy.
And about HOW TO SURVIVE IN PERPIGNAN I totally subscribe point 3 of:
http://www.foto8.com/home/content/view/983/226/
or… http://www.photojournalism.co.uk/2009/08/perpignan-survival-guide.html
ROSS,
Nature is one of those things that looks better on television than it does in real life.
What am I drinking? Diet Mountain Dew
Akaky; “Nature is one of those things that looks better on television than it does in real life”
The one thing that used to bug me about wildlife photography was that when you were shooting it was like watching them on tv, and you missed the experience. I would often say; bugger the pictures for a while, and put the camera down and just watch!
I think my best “nature day” was when I was dropped off for the day by myself on Enderby Island in the Auckland Islands (NZ Sub-Antarctic). Surrounded by NZ sealion pups and 465kms from NZ! I loved the day, the wildness, remoteness and solitude; but I was pretty happy to see the boat return in the late afternoon!
It certainly gave you an idea of what it must have been like for the settlers who tried to eke a living out of the Auckland Islands. It must have been a pretty sobering sight to see their ship disappearing over the horizon…
AUDREY….ANDREA…
i believe we were all together last year at Cafe le Post….full moon this year at Cafe le Post will create quite the scene…sorry to miss you…and big hugs…of course Audrey, i will wait for your pictures..and Andrea i really liked your presence on the Moment site….somebody please take a picture of our crowd for us here on Burn…link it here in the next couple of days…please…wait, better idea..can’t you skype me from le Post??? Andrea i know you have the Mac with a camera….do that
hugs, david
ANYONE who can offer advice.
I’ve just found some Tmax 100 thats still undeveloped in its canister. It was shot about 18-24 months back. How should I process it. Boost it a little. Will I loose much tonally ?
DAH,
I just wanted to direct your attention to http://lafamiliaabrazada.tumblr.com/ as we have just put up a 12 shot edit of Lung S. Liu’s family photographs. Lung was, as you know, published on Burn not so long ago and I think his family work has a fantastic beauty and depth to it.
ok… y’all..
to All LA Burnians…
we do have a meeting… so far Jared, Haik & me…
are attending…the meeting is in El Taurino…
in approx time …. 3 minutes from now…
see you all there…
El Taurino
1104 S.Hooover st
Los Angeles
( nothing serious: we’re just deciding the future of the city of LA…:)
PETE
Yep I think Antonin is ‘the bomb’!
JOHN
Know exactly what you mean, I live on one hell of an island with some very special people…
DAVID
Hehehehe….You know I’m good for circulation, hehehehe….
ROSS
Sprung! I’m not big on pseudonyms but I do like that one don’t you? I tell you what you wanna listen to the big ‘ol bear, he knows what he is on about! When I get a chance I will email properly…
CIVI
You are hilarious…I know I have said that before but its true…
ALL
See you at the next controversy!… Hehehehehe…..
ER,
Just before anyone misinterprets that- I mean MAGAZINE circulation… Not the sort that gives you heart attacks… Well not really, anyway… hehehehehe….
LISA,
hehehehe…you are good for circulation…???!!!…hmmmmm…
and I am the hilarius…heheheh…ok…
AUDREY WROTE:
Burnians in Perpignan,
I’ll be at Café de la poste with Laura, Patricio, Brent, Jean,… this thursday 3 about 6 pm
Hope to meet you!
PANOS WROTE:
to All LA Burnians…
we do have a meeting… 3 minutes from now…see you all there…
El Taurino
1104 S.Hooover st
Los Angeles
WHAT NOT TO LOVE !!!
Thank you David for your always so kind words! To all, if you are interested please check out my new agency http://www.momentagency.com
He he, live transmission from cafe post…interesting thougt.. you surely will be missed!
Andrea,
I’m very happy to meet you, I am going to print the DAH-Mask of Lassal http://dark.lassal.de/hidden/dah-mask/ You’ll see us!!
David,
great idea!! we’ll try…
AUDREY,
I love the DAH-MASK by LASSAL
What are the sizes ??? or one size fits all?
Can we use this mask around the Universe?
LOVEEEEEEEEE!!!
BREAKING NEWS FROM LA….
We ( thanks to Jared ) got eventually,
finally kicked out of El Taurino for life..
Jared was threatened by the Security Police
that he would be arrested…
( btw, David.. Jared is total Thompson material..
:)) qualifies 100%…
:)
anyway.. I’m at home now..
I hope Jared is driving safe..
We had to bail..
Sorry..
Meeting finished early..
Results???: banned from El Taurino …
:(
ohhh i forgot the most important…
the reason for the security guy to get upset was…
what else????????
for shooting pictures….. into his “property”…
fuck that ass***e…:((((((((((
JARED,
what’s wrong with you???
What did MR.HARVEY specifically advised you NOT TO DO???
He wrote:
“JARED,
… you sure you want to hang out with Panos, Herve, and yours truly?? we are two for two in negative scenarios with the law…travel at your own risk amigo….unless you love Hunter S. Thompson, stay away from this crowd…” STAY AWAY, STAY AWAY…
Focus…damnit…focus
Panos just went to twitter the security guy reckons you guys are pussies …………
I writed a long post yesterday … but may be it didn’t pass the filter..
Anyway just to thank David (we’ll burn one down for you). We will try to have a link from the meeting
AUDREY I can’t find the DAH mask of last year… Can you print one for me?? I can’t before I leave :)
LASSAL so you will be with us :))))))
All…
I’m participating in an online exhibition, curated by Michael Mazzeo called:
Arbor
The theme is “extraordinary imagery of trees…”
All…
I’m participating in an online exhibition, curated by Michael Mazzeo called:
Arbor
The theme is “extraordinary imagery of trees…”
Sorry for the double post… messed up the html in the first one…
RAFAL…
if you are the curator of La Familia Abrazada, then you have done superlative work…i was impressed…yes, Lung Liu, Furrukh (who i wanted here for an essay) and several others, whose names escape me at the moment, have some fine work…why don’t we publish this here on Burn now?? yes, you now have the link for us to see , but most readers of Burn do not come into the comments section, so it would be a surprise for 99% of the Burn readership…i would go with an edit from you of say 30-35 photographs….you know how to send it to us….and a one or two paragraph statement…do this if it seems appropriate to you….write me an e-mail if you so choose….
cheers, david
THODORIS..
i could not open your link
PETER GRANT…
i have been cruising around your website and saw some interesting work…to answer your question…most photographers would do well to at least learn that their own backyard is just as good as their neighbor’s….most think that if they travel that this means better work….
so, i do try to get most to think about pictures , not places…
this does not preclude of course that the neighbors yard is fine and the other side of the world is an adventure for sure…personally, i always took what i learned by shooting in my own backyard and went around the world with it…
if you do not know yourself, it is pretty hard to know someone else…
about the old Tmax, i just do not know…if it were mine, i guess i would just overdevelop it a bit…even if that is not right, a slightly heavy neg is obviously better than too thin….
cheers, david
David…
Did you try the link on my second post? it seems to work on my end… but in any case, here is the URL for copy and paste:
http://www.michaelmazzeo.com/RSVP_Exhibitions/arbor/ArborMain.html
David,
fantastic. I would really love to do that! It will take time since we are dealing with multiple photographers but it can surely be done.
THODORIS…
ok, got it..thanks…your work is in good company..
RAFAL..
no rush, but i am pleased…you can write the statement, you can do the edit and sequence…your baby
David,
in the meantime, perhaps a link to the LFA tumblr under links?;)
Rafal/David :)))
would LOVE to see an essay here of the work being done at Rafal’s LFA project…it’s so brilliant and much of it is just breathtaking….the contrast between Lung Liu and Furrukh’s work is just one example of how exciting a ‘group’ essay can be…something i tried for months to put together with SMOKE, but unfortunately, it never materialized (I couldnt get them as a group to commit, at least not yet)…so, i would love to see LFA….because the work is great, the curatorial eye is wonderful (rafal) and the concept (showing an essay from a group) is something Burn should do…
im really looking forward to that , indeed :))
cheers
running
b
yeah and wait for next month, Bob, I invited someone who has a totally different shooting style to be our third featured gallery
…Twittering the security guy….
hmmm…
who would know that this one day could be possible….
but with all this technology today… unbelievable..
again.. twittering the security guy …. priceless…
( did you mean taser instead of twitter ? )
Hi DAH, I just sent you an email. Talk to you soon!!
Jonathan
David,
I have just sent you an email with my new images… Thank you!
Laura, no problem for a print, see you soon!
Been busy, so just comments on a post yesterday.
You know, I think Lung S. Liu’s work is interesting, but must be using the same Photoshop actions half the photo world is using now. Everything “most popular” on photo.net looks just like this. Perhaps photographers should post their PS filters and actions in artist statements.
Ladies and Gentelmen,
This is Jared just a few seconds before being confronted by the Security with Thick Mustache(TM)
http://conversesrouges.com/2009/09/02/jared-is-having-a-moment-probably-thinks-who-the-heck-is-this-guy-panos-not-counting-me/
HAIK…
i just went to converses rouge….do not read what i wrote
Laughing….
http://conversesrouges.com/
David and all,
santafe.com has published a gallery of 12 of my Santa Fe images as part of their article on featured local photographers.
http://www.santafe.com/photographers/
I don’t expect to ever get here on Burn and I have no one to share my work with, so you might check out the beginning of a work in progress I am doing about Bucharest 20 years later. I have just started shooting and will continue for the next few months on the lead up to the 20th Anniversary of the fall of Communism. I’ll put a proper edit together for my new website that will soon launch, but here is a random set:
http://nordichigh.wordpress.com/
Lisa; It wasn’t that tricky to work out! I’m not as green as I am cabbage looking! :-))
Panos; While you were getting into mischief I was shooting a Christian music gig! How’s that for the other end of the spectrum! :-)
Davin,
Here is 20 years ago: http://johnvink.com/news/2009/09/02/the-weird-revolution/
DAVIN…
i DO expect you here on Burn….
CATHY…
congratulations on your presentation for the Santa Fe website….i had seen some of the pictures , but not all…i might have edited you just a bit differently, but overall your piece looked good….i am still waiting to see what in the world you have done with the low riders…isn’t that your current project, or did i miss something??
HAIK….PANOS
folks are going to get the wrong idea….they are going to expect trouble coming from our reunion…..in all seriousness, my plan is to spend as much time editing with you as possible…..yes, i like the fun and games…as much or more than anyone…AND, i want to get some real work done as much or more than anyone as well….you both know this to be true…so bring what you have…expect a great time and something concrete to come out of it…
cheers, david
RAFAL
Can’t wait to see La Familia Abrazada here on Burn. It has such a special charism. Each photographer speaks with her/his own voice but together they create an amazing song of family. Great curating, my friend!
LAURA M
You have been missed here on Burn! Please come back to us. Have a wonderful time with Audrey and our other Burnians in Perpignan. Pics please!
CATHY
BIG CONGRATS on being featured on santefe.com!!! Your photos look strong. We are so proud of you.
PANOS, HAIK & JARED
You bad boys! Imagine taking photos when security folks didn’t want you to. Tsk tsk. Can’t wait to see what happens when you guys meet up with DAH and Herve in San Francisco. Oh my.
DAVIN
Ah, the women of Bucharest. You’ve got some nice angles on these shots. Keep playing with it…
THODORIS
Strong exhibit! Congratulations on being included. Your work stands out as uniquely your own. I look forward to seeing the essay “Nicosia in Dark and White” here on Burn.
Patricia
David and Patricia,
Thanks for looking and for your kind comments.
David, they did the sequencing…I tried to submit it the way I thought it should look but in the end it was their call, you know how that goes :))
I’ve written you (or tried at least) a couple of times about what happened (or didn’t) with the lowriders. I still very much want to pursue them but right now it’s on a back burner. I’ve got an even better project going that I’m REALLY excited about. The project I’ve been looking for for a long time. It’s a world that I’m very familiar with that is not on the radar for photographers but is very timely. Shhh for now!!! :))
“HAIK….PANOS
folks are going to get the wrong idea….they are going to expect trouble coming from our reunion….”
Sooooooooooooo?????
PANOS, HAIK & JARED
You bad boys! Imagine taking photos when security folks didn’t want you to. Tsk tsk. Can’t wait to see what happens when you guys meet up with DAH and Herve in San Francisco. Oh my.
Actually Pat.. those two guys(jared/haik) are crazy…
i tried to force them behave…
i was a role model last night…
its all bullshit… trust me…
nothing’s “wrong” is gonna go down in San Francisco…
Trust me… i’ll keep an eye on them…
:)
now that i read all comments on latest essay i realized that Jim,
nailed it once again…
too pompous of a statement..
chill…
we got eyes…’
we see…
Some of us ( not me ), even “know” whats up…
u feel me?
Davin…
you sound sad and horny…
enough with all those romanian beauties…
loosen up.. look after a “regular” girl…
stop trying to “afford” gold diggers…
come on now bro…
you cant find a girlfriend in the entire city of bucharest????????
and you ‘re american????
you give us a bad name over here….
cmon now…get it together…
cant get a girl to love u and trust u…
what kinda Karma is this…
Hassle…
laughing…
joking…
http://www.ganges.com/The_Strokes_Heart_In_A_Cage_Live_At_Eurockeennes_video_6155592/
Cathy, marvelous shots you took in Santa Fe. India, take notice, Cathy is back!!! ;-)
Thodoris, didn’t get if these were your photos, or from different artists. Superb, anyway!
Rafal, Wow!, great photography from all of you, top notch processing as well.
Davin, your site says “Bucharest Paris of the East”… looking at your shots, definitely as far as the way the women look (and dress). Do they still speak french there?
John Vink, I forgot you had a website. Superb PJ work, in the old style (a compliment ok?), When Ceaucescu and wife came on an official visit to France, in the late 70s, after they left, it was found they had stolen all the hardware from the rooms they occupied as guests of the French Republic. Door knobs, keyhole frames, everything of value that could be put in luggages. Vile people. Didn’t their son rape Nadia Comaneci, or attempted at least?
Thanks all for the good links. Jared, Haik, Panos, remember SF is the place where women are strong and the men pretty…. SF cops are the somnolent type, my only fear: please, don’t hurt them! :-)))
this one for Herve…
John Vink:
Yes, thanks for those pictures. I of course have looked through your Romanian work before.
Panos:
I do have a date now! Have yet to meet her. . .
DELLICSON,
We are happy for you !!!
We are sending you good energy…
P.S Usually we “attrack” what we deserve …hmmmmm….
Bacardi cola on you Davin or maybe cold Romanian beer :)))
Panos:
dude, many were u waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off base last night ;)))…check ur email….i have known jv for more t han 3 years…and that was a tease about him being a newbie and he’s should be published…not to mention the fact that dah and i have spoken a number of times about the idea of publishing him, as part of the Iconic work shown here…but things took a direction to stay the course for ’emerging’ photographers….whatever they fed you in that resto in centrl la got way too much to your head ;))))))….but i gues that’s the crap about the internet, right…or interpreting something when u’re not part of the conversation ….
brother, if id didt love u so much, i’d say, dont ever question my loyalty again….but, i know u r greek…and im big doses of Irish, so what’s for us to do ;))))))….
hugs
running
b
ALL…
i have to travel a bit today to see Medford Taylor’s exhibition in Virginia..most likely i will be off line for about 24 hours….i will write a new Dialogue post over the weekend to discuss, among other things, our plans for your Burn exhibitions in New York and Washington this fall…
peace, david
Bobus…
Laughing..
Yep ..
Greek and Irish are the main
ingredients for a Molotof cocktail…
;)
David, Patricia, Herve…
Thanks for taking the time to visit the online exhibit.
One thing I’d like to mention about the show is that in contrast to most competitions that charge entry fees for participation, here we have an established New York gallery which is starting an online juried exhibition program FREE of charge for the photographers. Very close to the mentality of the coming Burn gallery…
Cheers, T.
DAVIN
I do have a date now! Have yet to meet her. . .
—————————–
For Davin, then:
Here again is the link to my gallery as a “featured local photographer” on santafe.com
http://www.santafe.com/photographers/
HERVE,
Thanks for the shout out! Did I tell you I’ll be back in India this winter? I’ll PM you on facebook about it.
Cathy,
Forgot to mention the other day when I first saw them… very good work! Congratulations.
The Powwow shot… movement, blue sky, green grass… groovy!
I’ve just put 11 images up on lightstalkers of the Christian music gig I shot a couple of nights ago. They are mostly variations on a similar theme, but I’m interested in any feedback… They are the first images shown (to save anyone having to scroll through a hundred images!)
http://www.lightstalkers.org/galleries/contact_sheet/18440
Cheers for that
Thanks Michael!
Groovy back at ya :))
Jan adamski,
you are an old soul in a young body and your English are better than many Civilians (including myself)
:)))
Panos is back, Rossy is dancing
Cathy says hi,
Thodoris flies high
Bobb is half Irish,
Michael says groovy
and I drink rumi …
WISH YOU ALL A BEAUTIFUL DAY or NIGHT…
You are all amazing!!!
DavidB, KATIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Fonseca,My Gracie
Where are YOU???
P.S Our Patricia, is the book ready???
Sorry,I can’t help myself… I am so excited???
I’ve been away for a while so perhaps this has already been mentioned…
Just found in my IN box…DAVID TEACHING WORKFLOW TECHNIQUES???
Something tell me he won’t be conducting that part of the class :))
Check it out…
• Are you a professional photographer or want to be?
• Looking for photo workflow techniques?
• Want one of your images printed in large format?
If you are in the New York area, the HP Photography & Printing Master Class is right up your alley!
Be inspired by the world-renowned and influential photographer, David Alan Harvey. Learn practical, high-level advice about the entire photographic workflow.
I do want to follow up on one point: a few weeks ago, I recounted how I was having a difficult time street shooting here in Bucharest. Tonight, I was attacked by a group of Romanian men and women in a main marketplace when I aimed my small Leica M8.2 up at a building. It was quite intense with one advancing on me. Bucharest is not a war zone, but might as well be. I have never experienced such issues anywhere else. Romania is not Western Europe! It is freakin hardcore here.
Were they drunk? Why do you think people are attacking you?
Herve: my date cancelled 4 hours before our date! Yes, Romania is a hellhole and Romanians are assholes.
Andrea!, no not drunk, just fucking nuts! See, this is my problem, no one understands just how bizarre Romania is. You can’t compare here to anywhere!
AndreaC, Ceausescu messed with the people so much that 20 years on, the Romanian psyche is stilled totally fucked. Western Europeans, Americans have no idea what I am talking about. It’s crazy here! People are genuine cunts.
People may react to me using the word ‘cunt’. The guy went to pull a knife on me for trying take a toursit photo of a building. I was in central Bucharest. This is crazy.
CIVILIAN
You are so dear to ask about my book. I would imagine people would be sick to death of the subject by now.
I’m learning a lot. For instance, which Blurb printing partner you end up with makes a BIG difference. The cover photo on my May order was printed beautifully, but the cover photo on my August order was way too dark, too red and over-saturated. Totally unacceptable. Both covers had used the exact same photo file, the only difference being the printing partner Blurb had used for each order. After several emails between me in Detroit and Joeffrey in the UK, Blurb has agreed to reprint my books for free using the printing partner that had worked on my May order. BTW the photos inside both books were printed fine. My only problem was with the cover.
But I’m feeling good about everything now. And I’m happy I’d already learned that you have to be willing to stand up and fight for what you need and deserve. Don’t compromise on quality.
Civi, all going well this book won’t be available to buy for quite some time. I’m not selling the Blurb books; I’m only using them as maquettes to show publishers and organizations that might want to preorder copies. But when Falling Into Place is published and for sale, trust me, you will be the first to know ;=)
Patricia
Yes, Davin, I DO object to your using the c**t word. It is derogatory to women and has no place here on Burn.
Patricia
Well, Patricia, I am glad I am alive after tonight. I will leave it at that. So long.
Davin, I am also glad you are alive after tonight, but I can’t help wondering when you’re going to realize that Romania is definitely not the place for you. Not now anyway. If you went back and re-read your comments I think this would be clear to you. You are obviously very unhappy there. And what happens when we don’t like a place or its people is that they sense it and behave even more negatively towards us. It’s like we’re magnets attracting whatever we send forth.
Why are you staying there? Isn’t there someplace else you can go that would suit you beter? I’m saying these things because I care about you and want a better life for you. Please think seriously about what I’m saying. You survived tonight but will you survive the next time? Davin, you deserve better than this. Now is the time to create the life you want, not continue to live a life you hate.
Sending you the courage to make a change for the better…
Patricia
Civi; “Rossy is dancing”
That would be a gruesome sight to behold… I wouldn’t want to inflict that on anyone…
Cheers :-)
“Romanian psyche is stilled totally fucked”
“People are genuine cunts.”
“Romania is a hellhole and Romanians are assholes”
Davin, I understand your anger and reflexes but are you really sure you want to attribute a single example of a species that had a knife to the whole nation? Or even if you met a good dozen of those assholes, does that really give you the right of expression in such a manner ON INTERNET? I feel you still have balls that are hanging too low for those with sharper knives.
This is an advice and nothing else. Take it properly. Sleep on it. Wake up and breath some of that Romanian air and think of the good people surrounding you. If you can’t, follow Patricia’s advice and move to a western culture country because ex-soviet block is mainly psycho-f**ked in your terms.
Cheers.
Are you learning the local language Davin? It might help if you insist on staying there. But I agree with Patricia, you should leave.
Anyone who has been to David’s loft / loft workshop – would you mind emailing me please?
Jason@jasonhouge.com
Thank you!
OUR PATRICIA,
With your updates regarding your book, I have the feeling that I follow a mommy
with her baby in her tummy…
We follow your magic “journey” and we are waiting the moment that you will hold your precious “baby”
up in the air…yelling…” I DID IT”…:)))
love
DAVIN,
you seem like a very “young” soul wandering around in a very old “territory”…
Have you tried to find other Americans or Westerners to be around…???
Other W. people can help you …but you might have to “emerge” …
Rossy,
I admire your courage to admit so openly your short-comings…:)))
Self-awareness is very hard to be achieved now days…:)))
You succeeded …:)))
OIME…I LOVE YOU ALL
Davin..:)
you sound hurt..
I asked before and u never answered…
“what made u move there in the first place”?
How long u live there?
Were u there to assimilate and connect?
Did u treat Romanians as photo “objects”…?
like they do with the wild animals in Serengeti …
really… what made u move there???????????
why dont you walk around with some Romanian friends?
play with them, befriend them and they will open their hurt..
otherwise you will be walking around like a ghost forever…
you dont wanna look like an american spy or cia agent… do you?
why aiming the LEICA to a building???????????????
buy a canon for that…
the M8 is for people.. but u have to talk to them first..
befriend them, tell them what u r doing..
bust most of all…
most
most of all…
Have fun with them..
Accept them..
open up…
u did the major step… u r there… in their land…
stop judging and start having fun…
big hug
Jason, just emailed u;)
Davin stop playing the drama queen come the show pony/spoilt brat. If you hate the place leave and find a trendy promenade where you can stroll down playing fancy pants and pretend you own a porche as you take happy snaps of the girls as they strut by with your latest leica.
Or do what you normally do…. sulk in the corner and curse the world!!!!!!
Jason_Houge
September 4, 2009 at 2:13 am
Anyone who has been to David’s loft / loft workshop – would you mind emailing me please?
Jason@jasonhouge.com
Thank you!
ok… i was there…
As Wendy would write….:))))
Amazing… magic…
An INTENSE , insane, out of the world experience…
you might think DAH is the “fun” guy drinking beer next to u, admiring “your” photos???
hmm.. maybe… sometimes..
but most of the times it feels like a BOOTCAMP…
people cry…
people feel desperate…
people wanna quit…
people that cant even shoot one photo till the last day and they are “nailing” it
at the last minute..
I have more stories that i keep private….
you think you’re “done”.. its late… its night…
you are tired.. fucked up… pissed of..
but who cares…
David will send you go RETAKE a photo… until you reach your max… your own threshold…
David cant and wont of course “make” you or “transform” into an iconic photographer…
but he will help you see the “truth” about yourself and your connection with this fucking planet..
not just photographer…
being in David’s Brooklyn workshop…
actually physically being there… is a UNIQUE experience..
its better than drugs and beer together…
take it from me..
i was there…
Civi; If you can’t laugh at yourself then you might just be missing the biggest joke in the world… :-))
its better than drugs and beer together…
—————————-
That’s not saying much…. try another comparison! (like it’s better than Davin driving in a BMW convertible in Downtown Bucharest with 3 girls at his side, very close!)
:-))))))
dellicson. sounds like you need a fixer….or a plane ticket.
HERVE and PANOS
California never sleeps…hmmm…
ROSSY and IMANTS
Australia never blinks…hmmm…
Goodmorning from Europe !!!
Why
is
everyone
pretending
they are poets
by writing
in
this way?
When
will people
learn
that
the
visual
arrangement
of words
in
a list
does not a poem
make?
And
that
it’s
not
poetic.
Just tedious.
Hi Civilian…heya “Our Patricia”…too tired to even grunt out another word..oh yeah, except to wave at Ross..and Panos..and Imants and whoever else is around..
hafta say i started to wade through Jan’s text and essay. The text is cumbersome. I might just pass on that. The photos are interesting. He has a good eye and it’s good to see Mayans who aren’t just decked out in their native dress for the tourists. I will spend more time with his photos and comment tomorrow. But i’m wondering why he says he’s only been shooting for a year. i mean, he’s young and all, and his skills are impressive and all but a year? He’s been uploading to to Deviant for like 3 years so…i’m confused. or tired. or grouchy. or all three. But a year? c’mon Jan..was that a typo?
best
kathleen
Civi,
yes, I wish you and all Burnians a good morning from Europe! Coffee was nice and tasty! A little windy and wet over here, but apart from that life is great! Good energy to all you Burnians of the world!
Davin,
your comments made me think of several experiences and thoughts I had in the past about Romania and being a stranger. Guess I will be in line with good advise, but rather take my words as a suggestion or an idea to contemplate.
To be a stranger or a foreigner in a strange or foreign country can be fun, it is exciting, but it is also many times unfamiliar and peculiar.
Over the years I spent time in different cultures. I lived with the First Nation people in Canada, I lived with Gypsies in Hungary, spent time in Beijing and Beirut and yes, I have even been to Los Angeles! So I entered the homes of many different people. This is a great privilege and a gift to share the life of other people, but the truth is also that you notice that the world can be pretty different from what you are used to. So you have to adapt to something new within a short time. And as said before, you have to be open. People will sense this right away. This takes energy and is not always easy.
I like to travel alone, but I have never been alone, except for one night in the Tasmanian bush where the next living soul was several kilometers away from me. That night it was just me watching a platypus coming out at dusk, my walkman and U2 “Achtung Baby”. Apart from that I always had people and friends around that I could share my experiences with. I often found it very helpful to talk about what I have seen, what I had experienced. Sometimes I met people in youth hostels or met ex pats and we talked about our experiences and of course had lots of fun talking about the local oddities. This was like a vent or an outlet to get out my bewilderment. I guess you do the same here on burn right now. You think the Romanians are all crazy, well of course from our perspective this might be the case, but from the perspective of a Romanian this is totaly normal. Chaos, unreliability, living for the moment, not making plans, not showing up for appointments seems to be part of the Romanian way of life. It seems people in Romania live with the flow, for the moment perhaps. I only spent little time in Romania, so I can only guess. The best thing is to accept this when we you are in Romania. Relax, nothing is wrong with you, nothing is wrong with the Romanians, we are all a little different, but I am sure you are as much a citizen of the world (Immanuel Kant) and you can accept these little oddities ;-)
One more story I like to share with you is a story about me meeting the first Romanian in my life. That was in maybe 1998 on a train ride from Passau to Hannover. I was already seated when a young girl asked me in English if the seat in front of me was free and I said yes. She started reading a book. I noticed her green eyes. Boy, I never saw such green eyes like this before. My knees got weaker and weaker. I asked her about the book she was reading and so we started chatting away. She was from Romania, from Gulati and on her way to Amsterdam where she studied literature. Her name was Ralucca. I was lost. I had a girl friend at the time and was madly in love with her, but never the less it was a nice flirt and I know exactly what you mean when you say that Romanian women drive men nuts. And one more thing. I remember showing Ralucca some of my images that I had with me and I never in my life got a nicer critique about my images. She felt exactly what I wanted to express with my images. I am still thankful for this experience.
Davin, confidence! Don’t give up! Relax and fly with the Romanians. They cannot help it.
Maybe I will be in Romania in early December. If you are still around then we go and have a beer!
Best
Reimar
Oh, AndreaC, your post reminds me of one of the meanest-spirited comments I ever posted, one in which I accused our beloved Civilian of being “tedious.” I still regret it. Besides, does it really matter how folks lay out their posts? My eyes appreciate the variety…
Patricia
Panos view this video as it is about a camera is being produced with your needs in mind ……….. http://www.physorg.com/news171209557.html
AndreaC and Michael Webster….you guys should read a few anthropology books, especially on native religion…new-agey..pffff..modern western cultures could and should learn A LOT from indigenous societies.
If you know French pick up the book “Les Societes traditionnelles au secours des societes modernes” by Sabine Rabourdin. Maybe it’s translated..?
REIMAR-
Which first nation in Canada did you stay with? I just got back from Inuvik where I was with the Gwich’in and Inuit.
Patricia, Well if they want their posts read, it might be better to write them in the usual manner. I find vertical prose unreadable. Poetry should be poetic.
David, I got the impression that michael webster had read quite a bit of anthropology. I think he said he studied it. Western societies were old traditional societies once. We can’t and won’t go back. Individuals will and can but not whole societies. The trend is rapidly heading westward. Why is that? Its because people want material wealth more than any other reason. I don’t suggest that we in the west have it all right. By no means. But old religions filled the knowledge gap with superstition and they were a way of controlling people. They weren’t all good and they weren’t all bad. To think they had all the answers to living well is just daft. Take aboriginal societies for a start. I was in some communities in the Northern Territory recently. What did i see. Grandparents telling their daughters to slap their little ones when they had done almost nothing wrong. I saw neglected animals. I saw lots of rubbish. I saw people queuing up at the supermarket at 5pm for their carton of beer that they are allowed to buy each day. I saw drunks sitting by the road out of town because they are no longer allowed in town – they get flogged by the elders if they go in. What else? I met some nice people. I met a woman from the stolen generation. I saw a lot of stuff but not much that showed they knew more about how to live life better than we do. Aboriginals are big into sharing too. I have nothing against aboriginals. I wish they had a better time of it than they do but I am not misty eyed about their spirituality. I saw some good art. I saw families eating lots of junk food. I saw families leaving lots of litter behind them after a fishing trip. I saw zillions of beer cans all over the countryside. You don’t see that kind of litter anywhere else – except perhaps at a music festival where everyone knows its going to be cleaned up by tomorrow.
whoops. It was you who was the one who had read up on anthropology. Oh well.
Hi,
Burn meeting in café de la poste!!
http://gallery.me.com/audreybardou#101291&bgcolor=dkgrey
(c) Jean Nussy Saint Saens, MERCI BEAUCOUP!!!
AndreaC
I agree with you. And thanks to Bob Black for writing in paragraphs. It is MUCH easier to read.
AUDREY,
We love you !!! Amazing photos…I wish more Burnians were there …I see only MR.HARVEY:)))
Wish you Fun and Drink some beer for the rest of us…LOVE
ANDREAC,
Tedious is my name… I wish I can write like BOBB or AKAKY or …I will try to improvise
:))) LOVE
REIMAR,
You are my lost twin brother…LOVE…the green eyes…hmmmmmm…:)))
KATIE,
oime…give us updates…the place is getting “tedious” …without the Costa Rica street fighter.
OUR PATRICIA,
the above ref:”tedious” has nothing to do with our old story…:)))
LOVE
I am so happy to see faces of BURNIANS !!!
Andrea that comment of yours smacks of racism
Davin,
man, you gotta keep that kind of stuff off the internet. Tell it to a buddy at a pub, dont leave it up permanently where it can come back to bite you on the ass. Telling that sort of stuff almost defeats the purpose of you being there and building up a body of work on Romania. Can you imagine if Koudelka left a bunch of comments on the net about how he hated the gypsies? Talk about throwing mud all over your own work.
Don’t be rediculous imants.
Pauline Hanson spoke in a similar fashion as you wrote
ANDREA C
OUCH!!!!!
its how I think….
not trying to be poetic…..
I’m writing what comes to my mind with photos….
should we all write essays?
or paragraph form?
You want a standard way for people to write their thoughts?
WOW….
what a boring world that would be….
OUCH….
this is photography…
not an english class……
this
will
be
quick
like the twitch of quiver’d spit upon line,
dashing
toward
my son
and a qu
ick
bubble
of a thought:
i
l
o
v
e
both panos and wendy’s vertical acrobatics…..
damn
is this place
getting
silly
hu
gz
b
ob
b
BOB
silly it is
but
hurtful…
thanks..
:)
W
E
N
D
Y
! :))
i understand…
do
not
change
a
think
i lo
ve
reading
u
and
p
a
no
s :)))
hugs
b
ob
AUDREY
Merci beaucoup for bringing us with you to Perpignon!!! It’s such fun to see your faces…even DAH’s! Enjoy the festival.
xxxooo
Patricia
W
H
Y
A
R
E
W
E
D
O
I
N
G
T
H
I
S
?
H
O
R
I
Z
O
N
T
A
L
S
A
R
E
A
B
E
A
U
T
I
F
U
L
T
H
I
N
G
A
N
D
M
U
C
H
L
E
S
S
A
N
N
O
Y
I
N
G
Thank you and have a nice day.
AOUCHHHHHHHHHH,
ANDREAC was trying to be funny…You guys take everything literally …
Shall we ban the ……?
shall we ban the :)))?
shall we ban ESL people from blogging…?
Shall we ban bad humor posts?
The answer is of course YES, we don’t need to ban them …hihihi
Back to the regular program…
BURNIANS = Do you like color or black and white? and why?
free style / limit 300 words…
AndreaC, I’m afraid your description of the people and their lives–at least what you saw of them–in the Northern Territories is quite superficial, and in being so, does not come across well…for you, not for the people. I’m afraid it is descriptions such as yours that perpetuate prejudices and stereotypical views of indigenous peoples. If you were to go back with your camera, a recording device and a commitment to learn more about these people and their culture, I suspect the superficial things you saw on this recent trip would take a back seat to the wonders you would find within each person and his/her story.
I say this not as a criticism but as an encouragement to grow and learn more about peoples who are different from our Western norm. It also comes out of my frustration with people who come to my city of Detroit and only see the abandoned buildings, trash-littered streets and TV reports of rapes/murders/fights. They rarely take the time to get to know these people who have rich histories, amazing stories and a deep commitment to the community in which they live.
As photographers it is our responsibility to dig deep and get to know a place and its people before characterizing it and them in ways that simply reflect the surface of things. They deserve more than that.
Patricia
P.S I like the vertical posts …dyslexic as I am I find them very eye pleasing …
what do you think Thodori ???
Wendy
don´t YOU ever change!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are a vertical ray of light come straight from a blue, blue sky to shine on us somber mortals down below.
Besos y abrazos, chica!
Kathleen
OUR PATRICIA,
I just met some people from Detroit.
They are coming to my home tonight. I will give you update later tonight.
VIVA DETROIT,VIVA!!!
Running…likeBB
KATIE ,
talk later…LOVE and KISSES…to mom and Juliette
WENDY,
You are the sunshine …the BURNing sunshine
na,na,na,na,nannnnnnnnnn
Listen, I have a lot of time for Aboriginal people. I am just saying their spirituality has nothing special. I refer to their culture as an example of traditional cultures because its about the only one I know anything about apart from the Indians and that’s got some terrible things in it. I know this is a superficial view but I did see these things with my own eyes recently. I love aboriginal art. I adore it. But that’s a combo of old traditions and the west. And I am proud of their achievements. Pauline Hansen may have reported on seeing similar things but unlike her, I am glad of the land rights movements. I am glad to see the support that they have been given. I don’t resent the extra help they get. They need it. But they are not any better than anyone else and nor is their culture. It’s just different.
I wasn’t really being funny about the vertical text. It is hard to read. And it is contrived. I do think akaky was being funny though and he did make me laugh even though his post was even harder to read than the others who do it.
Imants:))))))..
i loved the open source stanford camera..open source, open source, open source, open source,open source camera… camera open source..with apps and iphone applications.. no really very interesting article..i loved the open source stanford camera..open source, open source, open source, open source,open source camera… camera open source..with apps and iphone applications.. no really very interesting article.. i loved the open source stanford camera..open source, open source, open source, open source,open source camera… camera open source..with apps and iphone applications.. no really very interesting article..i loved the open source stanford camera..open source, open source, open source, open source,open source camera… camera open source..with apps and iphone applications.. no really very interesting article..i loved the open source stanford camera..open source, open source, open source, open source,open source camera… camera open source..with apps and iphone applications.. no really very interesting article..i loved the open source stanford camera..open source, open source, open source, open source,open source camera… camera open source..with apps and iphone applications.. no really very interesting article.. i loved the open source stanford camera..open source, open source, open source, open source,open source camera… camera open source..with apps and iphone applications.. no really very interesting article..i loved the open source stanford camera..open source, open source, open source, open source,open source camera… camera open source..with apps and iphone applications.. no really very interesting article…
no poetry anymore
:))))))))))))
Imants
Having an aboriginal background myself, and having been to such communities, I can tell you that Andrea is not being racist, but just telling it like it is. Non-native people do have an unfortunate “misty-eyed” attitude towards native culture and spirituality which is in itself actually racist and patronizing. It’s a complicated topic, but a lot of the attitudes, mind set and culture within native communities is pretty screwed up.
The issue of the Inginenous is very, very complicated..i think that is what AndreaC was trying to say. I am not terribly intellectual about these things so will probably stick the proverbial foot in the proverbial mouth but it does not serve to overly idealize these native traditions as if they hold all the secrets that we ´westerners´ are missing. Neither is it correct to disparage their wisdom because of obsevrvable societal ills that have befallen their cultures as they have befallen all cultures. The indigenous are people like all people. Really no more and no less. That some are active in an effort to preserve their languages or ancient traditions is to be applauded. Our thinking is shaped in a different way and so it is crucial to know individuals as individuals and dig, dig, dig for understanding and through that understanding to attain a higher level of appreciation and wisdom within ourselves for the essentail good in a people and culture. um….
Back to Jan´s essay..i am wondering why he didn´t do an essay on indigenous groups in Costa Rica. Are the Mayans intrinsically more colorful, quaint, obeservably more spiritual, interesting, etc. etc. than indigenous on the reserves here in CR? I would personally have really appreciated an essay that endeavored to document what remains of native cultures that were never superpowers like the Incas, Aztec and Mayans and hence have always been more fragile, vulnerable to ¨western culture¨and threats from the ills of modern life. A friend of mine is struggling to do just that in her Masters thesis here and i have gained a huge understanding of just how difficult it is to document the remains of an ancient culture when the people dress like me, live in houses like i do, work in the city, listen to reggaeton, have tattoos, get drunk, get fat etc. And as i am peeling back the layers of what makes us all so numbingly similar i am discovering extraordinary beauty in also what makes us different. The joy i see in these people as they begin to reveal their ancient culture, bloodlines, traditions, roots and pride just standing out on the street talking or sitting at a table in a half-built community center has shown me far more about indigenous ways, thinking, habits, history, etc. than really all the photos of ceremonies or exotically dressed natives that i have ever seen. Yet i am not upset by what AndreaC wrote at all. He IS observing and that´s a start. Go back, talk, learn..get beyond the ills. That´s where the magic is, Abdrea.
best
Kathleen
AndreaC
You posted your comment while i was still writing..forgive me if i traipsed all over your point of view..it just took me some time to articulate my own thoughts.
HI GORDON!
BYE CIVI!
as Bob…runningggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg!
best all
Kathleen
eeks…spelling..Indigenous..late night last night..totally cross-eyed this morning..note to self–spell check!
In complete agreement
With Rafal
Davin…
Keep some of those thoughts
to yourself
and yes, it is beginning to
look and sound like you
need to come
home
or go elsewhere
and do what your are clearly capable
of doing
do it well
do it elsewhere
oh, and in case you
couldn’t tell
…I think Wendy rocks!
Peace.
iwonderifthistopologyexcitesuguysitsfastertowritethiswayasudntneedtousethespacebarortheenterkey:)))))njoylabourdayweekendcheersvivek
The main issue facing the Ingenious community today is their smartass attitude and its attendant air of smug superiority over those who arent as Ingenious as they are.
It is not about “banning” anything. It is about having intelligent and insightful conversations. To quote a very talented award-winning photojournalist friend of mine… ” Now I don’t want to be Johnny Sour Grapes here, but I am tired of all of this supposed photojournalism work that has the photo technique trick of the month crap all over it, and instead of illustrating an issue, it just screams ‘look at me, look what a wonderful photographer I am…”
Now he was talking about photos, but I think it applies here also. Why can’t there just be intelligent dialogue here? Do we really need to bring attention to ourselves with two words on a line comments or some of the other silly ways things are posted here.
And this is not picking on Wendy, so please, don’t take it that way. There is enough of this to go around.
There have been many cases of people who have posted things on facebook, myspace or their personal blogs that have in turn come back and caused problems for them because yes, in this day and age when employers are looking at prospective employees, they use google. And google points them to some of the not so flattering comments that have been posted.
This is a problem on other sites as well such as Sportsshooter. I read many sites and blogs related to photography on a regular basis, and an someone who is in a position to hire photographers, I will tell you that there have been at least three occasions in the last 4 years where a candidate was disqualified because of nonsense written online.
David has said over and over that very influential people read this site. Shouldn’t everyone be putting their best foot forward? Eccentricity is fun and interesting to a point. But ultimately the photographers work will get them hired. Being cool and hip and eccentric will not get you hired to do a shoot, but going overboard with it can get you excluded.
I guess this is not as much of a problem for those who do not use their real names on posts. But isn’t that a bit silly also? I mean if you are not brave enough to put your name on your thoughts, then can you really expect people to take you seriously?
Just my 2 cents. It is your career…
Ah I feel better now… don’t all of you? HA! rant over….
Might be faster to type but definitley slower to read vivek. I like the way it runs off the side of the page. That’s ingenious.
Kathleen, you will no doubt have noticed that I am very poor at making a point. I got upset with the business of Jay’s essay because of its “misty-eyed” view of spirituality. Old cultures are fascinating and yes it is complicated. What I value most about the Aboriginal culture (apart from their art) is their knowledge of the land and its fruits . I want to go back to the bush next year or the year after perhaps and learn more but I haven’t got any credentials to enable me to hang around taking pictures and making a general nuisance of myself.
But hey guys while we are on this topic, please make an effort to see a film – an aboriginal film – called Samson and Delilah. It’s gone to the top of my list of favourite films. I think it won the Palm D’Or at Cannes this year. A little harder for non-Aussies to appreciate all the nuances than us but I am sure you will find it excellent too. It’s a tough picture but poetic and beautiful. But being made by an Aboriginal, it is all the more important and special because he has been able to say things that white australian filmmakers can’t say.
And if you ever stumble upon this book, its well worth reading. People of the Deer by Farley Mowat. Its about some inland inuit from Canada. They hunted deer instead of seals.
Pete,
With respect, I think that is complete horseshit.
What you describe is an extremely boring place to visit. And worse, Burn would be doomed to failure if it ever became like that. It is the personal quirks of the quirky personalities that keep this place alive.
There is much to learn and to savor in these pages, yes. But occasionally if someone goes over the top, so be it. And if there is an asshole editor out there watching these threads and determining certain people’s fate due to their participation… well fuck that dude! (or dudette!) In fact, I think that whole idea is overblown. Charming personalities get you only so far.
Human nature pervades this joint. It should be embraced.
I’m afraid it is descriptions such as yours that perpetuate prejudices and stereotypical views of indigenous peoples
————————–
Ignorance breeds prejudice, Patricia, not “descriptions”. Andea is engaged in a discussion with some of you, coming froma different angle. What he observed, described, unless we call him a liar, is as valid as what anyone else does, in the course of that discussion.
Why not simply disagree,rather than heap guilt on him? He does not dismiss what you guys say, just wants to eschew idealizing and speak of realities, stuff that is good, stuff that is not so good, and policies that can be damaging or beneficial. At this point, only real knowledge about these peole or tribes should enter the discussion, not general thoughts on tolerance used as counter-arguments. IMO
Finally, you write:
to know these people who have rich histories, amazing stories and a deep commitment to the community in which they live.
—————————
Right here, untribal, in our western midst, our inner, decaying, polluted cities. I mean, who needs s tribe? :-)))
Pete. A lot of very talented photographers from a wide range of disciplines are regular contributors here.
The place has its moments for sure, and it sometimes gets a bit bitchy and anarchy-lite, but in the main I see a very interesting online community developing here. many connections are made and things learned. I think its that model that makes this experiment so interesting. Very non hierachical. David throws a bone in once in a while and we all fight over it. consensus is rarely reached but there is always intelligence and humour. Isnt that good? If I want to gush about the latest glycin compound or moon over sheimphlug equations i go over to apug or luminous landscape or somesuch. If i want to see a wide variety of NEW work and shoot the breeze i come here.
oh and “and as someone who is in a position to hire photographers,”” …..gis a job then. Promise ill wear sensible shoes and talk perty :)
JOHN
Pete,
I think your going a little overboard. I can’t believe we’re writing multiple paragraphs on what format people use to post their responses. Bored at work? I could take a red pen to your last post and point out a dozen AP style errors, and you being a professional journalist, shouldn’t you be more on top of that. What are you saying to prospective employers? :)
JOHN
I agree with you about the talented photographers here and I agree the community is very interesting. The different points of view are fantastic, and I do enjoy them. Even the ones I disagree with. It is the bitchyness and other nonsense that brings it down.
MICHAEL
I didn’t describe anything. All I SUGGESTED was that everyone act like adults (most do).
Quirkyness is one thing. Sillyness is another.
I love reading insightful comments here. But I am sorry, If the writer cannot take the time to form complete sentences or have the courtesy to use their real name, then I really cannot be bothered to read it.
Oh and the next time I get up to D.C. I would love to meet for a beer or two…. I will try to keep the “horseshit” to a minimum… (grin)
David has said over and over that very influential people read this site
———————————————————————
David wrote this too (asking Rafal to submit, not link, work): “most readers of Burn do not come into the comments section, so it would be a surprise for 99% of the Burn readership…”
I doubt influential people have that much leisure on their hands, I mean reading the DIALOGUE sections. If major talent is showing, it matters little if the personality is VIRTUALLY badass, or courteous.
As far as merely trying to get a job, I would not confuse BURN with sending portfolios, knocking on doors and using up the sole of our shoes in the real world. Look at Patricia. It all came because of being here, yet she drove (and rode!) a lot, REAL strides and miles in the REAL world. And still working hard at it, 2 years on.
JARED
Believe it or not, most of what is written in the world is NOT in AP style.
I also meant to ask you a bit ago, does your site always load slow, or is it my side?
Here’s an interesting multimedia website some might want to check out. Not specifically “photography,” but uses a lot of it in different ways.
http://www.flypmedia.com/
HERVE
I understand what you are saying. I know BURN is not about getting jobs, BUT, you never know who is looking or reading. And you would be surprised what comes up in search engines.
Herve;
If I remember right David wrote in his last essay about trying to keep the dialogue in line, specifically because there are influential people reading it. And that it also reflects back on him. I doubt whether he is worried about the occasional bun-fight, just a general attempt to keep things seemly.
Anyway; abusive arguments just show that the perpetrator is lacking the ability to argue a coherent opinion. I think that overall there’s a great mix of personalities on here, a bit of colour rather than (as Billy Connelly would say) a bunch of “beige” people! :-)
Often the dialogue is now only a couple of pages per day. So I think many “influential people” would have the time to skim that and pick the wheat from the chaff. Especially if they’re interested in seeing a variety of new work; and in David of course
Also, say I’m the sort of person who is prone to massive rants and generally pisses people off. An editor sees my link, likes my work but thinks “Man. I wouldn’t hire him because I couldn’t risk sending him into a sensitive situation…” It’s not beyond the realms of possibility in the “real world” of photography.
Here in NZ we have a very small pool of editors; it always amazes me how many times you bump into them in another publication! It also usually gives you an “in” to that publication.
Panos;
After recently having a 45 minute Skype editing session with David I can only imagine what a full workshop would be like. My head is still spinning with his advice and I am blown away by how much I learnt in that short time. I’m amazed how those 45 minutes has completely changed my shooting perspective.
Cheers :-)
I totally agree with the fact that there are certain things you may not want recorded forever, Pete. I have a friend, a lawyer, who was featured in a Newspaper article, because she was at an esoteric gathering she participated in. Now, everytime you google her name, you get that article…
But I do not think one asks of a photographer to be as “unesoteric” as a lawyer. So far, I see nothing on BURN that would be branding anyone as unwelcome in the photographic world.
Even what Davin wrote about romanians, smack more of growing pains (sorry Davin, that is what I think in some measure), than despicable xenophobia.
Personally I am not ashamed that one of the first link coming with my name is about the peregrinations of a teddy bear in Northern France. No Nachtwey, yes, but definitely Herve! :-))))
Pete,
nice rant, and good advice that many tend to forget :)) Of course, some of us don’t want a “job” anymore, can’t even imagine it really, so then there is just the primary motivation of having some respect for our host, if not each other. And to bring the circle back around, I think to be a great photographer you have to truly respect your collaborators. If you can’t do it virtually, can you do it in the real world? I fall down in both places on occasion but I do try :))
Jim,
thanks for the link, had not seen this before, enjoying digging in right now …
Pete,
It’s my side. Am working on it. DIY at it’s finest…. ;)
Now that I’m getting older,
softer and more elightened I decided
that I should run for president..
But after all those posts regarding
china and north Korea … I’m done..
What if they google my name?
What if they found out???
Now I feel paranoid..
I filled an application for pool boy in the
Playboy Mansion the other day..
No response yet.. Hmmm..
Maybe the googled me…
Maybe we should ban music
from Burn as Pete suggested..
And we should definitely ban Wendy for
writing here “her” way..
Maybe we should ban Salvador Dali too for
speaking and behaving “his” way..
Fuck all rules..
Fuck all employers..
Fuck your fears..
Viva frank Sinatra , viva Sid Vicious..
They did it “their” way..
Not YOUR WAY..
stop botching ..
Go out and shoot..
We are not in your church, your temple or mask..
So chill..
And if Akaky or Civi don’t wanna post their name..
who cares…
Stop reading them..
Not everybody thinks or writes your way..
Jee
But regardless how mucho me and Pete disagree
( pretty much about everything )..
He once gave me his precious advice..
Time to return the favor…
He said…why don’t u start your own blog and enforce your
own style there..
Right back at ya Pete..
I agree %100 with you..
Now Andrea let me hit u with some “knowledge” as we say in LA..
If you post through an iPhone ( or a phone )..
then your post comes out in a “poem”
form (visually)…
Looks like a sonata ( laughing )…
I know.. U laugh.. But it’s true..
:)))
did that help ?
I mean remember in the past how many times people
got upset by Bob’s long long long posts..
So does that mean that Bob should stop writing in his eccentric style??
Should he start using paragraphs to please this or that guy??
Or should he remain himself???
Think..:))
;)
“Be kind.” – Hideous Kinky
“Well the first days are the hardest days,
Don’t you worry any more, ‘Cause when life looks like easy
Street, there is danger at your door.
Think this through with me, let me know your mind.
Woh – oh, what I want to know, is are you kind?”
– Uncle John’s Band
TOM H
Nice. love that song.
Ross..
Yep..:)
Pete…
You come to DC and we meet at Nanny’s in Cleveland Park. 1st round on me!
Cheers.
Ross..
I can only compare David’s teaching techniques
with the Socratic method..
The answer is inside always .. He just helps u focus find it..
Sound simple, I know..
Genius.. Brilliant…
I wish I had Panos’s rough tongue, Bob’s eloquence or the Civilian Mass Audience’s spirit of reconcilement and hope, but it seems that I have to say it my way.
So,
Dear Davin,
I’m just enjoying the last slices of a succulent pizza in the Romanian town of Alba-Iulia, made of real Italian dough, with a nice crisp topping. A cold beer keeps my throat moist and I just love that tickling when the liquid descends in my stomach. Molto buono, congrats to the cook. To tell you the truth, no wonder that pizza is so appreciated: the owner of the restaurant is an Italian married to a Romanian woman. I don’t know how in the world he convinced that woman to follow him, as long as here, I’m pretty sure, “women tend to marry their own”. Twenty yards away there is another Italian (figure out this – also married to a Romanian woman! ) who owns a nice shop, he is selling bras, underwear, good Western stuff, my wife says, it has a fine and comfortable cut. Is it not “amazing what Western culture and globalization has done in a way for the world?” Oh, these Romanian women – the main luxury and pleasure consumers, the embodiment of lust in the leather of a 80.000 $ Mercedes or BMW. I only pity my little Citroen Saxo, not forgetting my wife and her desperate feelings when she is forced to take a ride in that silly old grey junk. Honey, do you still like my “intellect and physique?”
As my notebook opens, I take advantage of the free wireless spot I’m in. Or is it an island? Let me see, that goes well with: “The whole region is inordinately insular, but most Romanians have no idea about being citizens of the world.” I feel the sharp edge of your cynicism ripping, cutting my flesh, I look down and I feel barbarian, uneducated, dumb. Speechless. Let me ask you a question: Why do you spend your time photographing non-citizens of the world? Who would be interested in our blank and naked non-existence, opposed to the civilized one, as “is in the West” where “everyone is sort of playing by the same rules”?
I wrote the first part of my message two days ago, but I did not post it for two reasons:
1. I said to myself that your photojournalist’s senses just escaped wild for a while.
2. I followed a burnian’s piece of advice: just do not respond to non-senses.
Today, it seems that you have totally lost control of your angry beasts.
The rules, dear friend, are the same here as in the West, and I’m sure the French blade pointed at my stomach is similar to the same cold Romanian knife that threatened your life. Do I hate France? I am very fond of French people.
I have been a silent watcher of burnmagazine, DAH is doing a great thing, this site is a dreamtiger’s nest, and it would be heartbreaking for me to see that I suddenly have to shorten my flight time over this cuckoo’s nest. Until today, I have never considered that somebody here had ever passed the line of a civilized point of view. What you are preaching now totally contradicts the basic rules of photojournalism. Even if you have decided to quit the Romanian project, I would have found, if I were you, a more humble way to withdraw.
I followed your Maramures project. I think it’s a good one; you put your time, effort, money and talent in it. I also see that you began to have a voice by publishing your Romanian work in international magazines and I think it would be better for your career for you to choose your words carefully. As for your opinions concerning Romania, you should soften the dark parts of the picture; many of your assumptions about this country are not totally correct.
I live in the town of Alba-Iulia, situated at about half distance on your road between Bucharest and Maramures. It would be great to meet you and buy you a drink.
Cheers,
Marian
Panos; When I was shooting that Christian concert the other night all I could hear going through my head was “Make microadjustments” and “is it a picture or a photograph?” !! :-))
Ross;)
as bob Dylan once said: “it’s not a House it’s a Home..”
Dearest MR. MAROVICH,
“I love reading insightful comments here. But I am sorry, If the writer cannot take the time to form complete sentences or have the courtesy to use their real name, then I really cannot be bothered to read it.”
as one philosopher once wrote:
“I think to be a great photographer you have to truly respect your collaborators. If you can’t do it virtually, can you do it in the real world? ”
I am not a photographer but as a Civilian ( English is my third language)I will try to do my best…
cause I respect MR.HARVEY and his BURN family !!!
CAUSE I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLL !!!
P.S Can we drink now???
By the way nice book, wish you the best
Maybe we are making Pete look badeditors feel free to ignore those that do care Pauline Hanson is here
Tom
are you kind used to mean something else :)
Have you seen the Grateful Dead images on my site? Part of me wishes I had taken so many more, had loads of opportunity, but in truth I think I am happy I just enjoyed myself and lived and loved…
civi – HERE..
and there, just being busy..
reading arguments i would rather shy away from.. top cat is walking.. reading a new (old) book received today.. drinking.. tapping my feet.. arranging to meet ex-students.. making a list for tomorrow.. pondering why the ‘c’ word (female) is considered unspeakable, yet the ‘c’ word (masculine) is splashed about.. drinking.. selling off worn out kit / kit given to me.. drooling over new kit.. looking at the view.. laying out my book.. missing david ahhhh on skype.. planning and consolidating.. forgetting to shave.. eating fresh mangos.. drinking.. looking at audreys photos from perp..
now going to bed..
blah blah :o)
what are you up to?
Hey “important ones” who are reading this go and fornicate with a funnel web…………
Imants; a bit off topic (sort of!) But did I see something on our TV news about Hanson trying to make a “comeback”? Didn’t she get porridge for some tax evasion or similar?
Yea she still has a big fan base in Queensland, forever highlighting the negatives of the indigenous people here, seems to be common practice here far too often. But then again we are pretty good at being racist in this country ……. whatever new culture migrates here cops a mouthfull from the likes of Pauline and co
Ok; I thought prison might have killed off that fan base! Mind you; I suppose there are still people who love Joe Bjelke-Petersen too. It’s a pity you had to end up with that particular Kiwi!!!
Pete:
¨To quote a very talented award-winning photojournalist friend of mine… ” Now I don’t want to be Johnny Sour Grapes here, but I am tired of all of this supposed photojournalism work that has the photo technique trick of the month crap all over it, and instead of illustrating an issue, it just screams ‘look at me, look what a wonderful photographer I am…”
I know YOU were using this statement in reference to certain writing styles here, but i want to hi-5 Johnny Sour-Grapes for saying this exactly as well as he said it, relative to photography. God, but i am tired of the slick trends used in so much work that i see in the media and on the web and here too. No offense to anyone who gets off on the latest photoshop action but, really, whatever happened to just telling a story straight and letting the photo speak for itself without the photographer´s ego being all over the damned thing? The photographers i admire, they are so beyond this flash and dazzle stuff. They assume such a humble role before the awesome responsibility of representing another human being ¨on film¨. And maybe really, they´re raging egomaniacs but they are wise enough to be humble before their ¨god¨.
Well, anyway, thanks for this..it really hit a nerve with me.
Best,
Kathleen
Katie;
The latest fad that gives me good laugh is the “dramatic” hdr sky that looks about as convincing as the skies in Charlton Heston’s old “Ten Commandments” movie. I’m all for burning in skies etc, but….. :-)
Actually; they make the old tobacco grad filter skies look positively classy… :-)
Photoshop/camera technology is not the photographers ego it is about using technology to one’s advantage and enhancing communication. If you prefer the time and tested approach so be it but we can do without the attitude of “purity” and denigrating those that utilise other techniques as ego maniacs.
There are plenty of sites around that cater for the needs that you stated so maybe you will be happier there
Yea thanks for that but Joe made a a lot of us look good, his other claim to fame was teaching Lee Kuan Yew ( Singapore) how to set up a jerrymander
Ross
Oh God, yes, the HDR look, where any photographer´s work can look exactly the same as any other photographer´s work. Real classy. That´s just one look..there…..are…..others…:(
Imants
You didn´t get what i was talking about. It´s not about photoshop..it could be the latest lens, printing on banana paper..whatever..can´t discuss this now..am in a big hurry..but you didn´t get what i meant. And you´re grouchy to boot ;)
best
Kat
Imants..;)
does that funnel covers diarrhea..:)))??
Imants; No worries, you know we only send you our dodgy ones :-))
Imants..
ok, two seconds more because i just finished a more pressing concern..just because i differ with you, i would not suggest you go elsewhere. I happen to really like your work and you and a lot of what you write. Whatever technique you use i wouldn´t say it´s screaming ¨look at what a great photographer I am!¨. To me your work has something to say and it´s being expressed from a deep place. Ok? That´s MY reaction to your work. If i didn´t feel that then i might be tempted to think your tricks of the trade were just clever sleights of hand to persuade me thaqt something´s being said when it´s not. THIS is what i mean. Does it say anywhere here that this is a photoshop only site? Does it say anywhere here that all others keep their traps shut? Kripes, Imants, you surprise me.
Best
Kathleen
…but I agree with Imants about the fascism of “purity”…
Panos
It´s not about purity..it´s about relying on crutches as a way NOT to dig down into your heart and say something deep. And when crutches are used there´s no way the photo can stand on its own. Because that´s ALL the photo has going for it is the slickness. Don´t get a film over your eyes because i said the word Photoshop. I use photoshop every damned day! It´s the SLICK TRICKS. And it´s the tricks that cause so much photography to look numbingly similar.
Really, do i have to explain this? hahaha, Panos and Imants, you two are some of the most idiosyncratically original shooters i know of…i don´t put you in a box. Don´t put me in one. k?
hugs
kathleen
Kathleen..
Big hug..
No boxes..
Agreed ..
( poops ..!! sorry.. I forgot we banned poetry style from this site.. I’ll stand in line..)..laughing…
Kat..
Smile..:)
( how could I remove the dirty spots of my dirty sensor without Photoshop ???)
Panos
i love your style..street poet that you are..
Photoshop is an amazing tool..ít´s all things to all photographers. That´s part of its magic. Now i wanna know if the next upgrade will eliminate my need to eat, sleep, stretch, work and have real relationships so that i never have to stop doing photography. Now THAT would be a slick trick i´d buy into!
you smile too..and i am outta here..
xoxoxo
kathleen
Hey if one doesn’t like a site they move on to an appropriate one that full fills ones needs, I have no problems with the trad leica film boys and girls, the kids on deviant,though I do draw the line on puppy dogs, splatta cats are ok as they lived under truck tyres. Deep and meaningless work will/has found it’s way here so be it, many place Martin Parr’s stuff in that category as that is their perception……………… I never photograph after dark so SLICK TRICKS I luv em and use them
Ah the PJ purity is strong tonight! ;^}
http://www.etrouko.com.au/imants.htm
Imants
I know. You use ´em up the wazoo but your work is far from slick. That was my point. And here´s the thing too..the first one to slick the trick ends up slickly tricked when all the tricky dicks cdowload the plug-in off the net. The slicker the trick? The faster its hacked.
So much for poetry on Burn..gotta eat..
bye!
kathleen
Imants ..
;)
sweet
Imants
(correcton ¨cdowload¨–can download)
Checked your site..haven´t been there for awhile. You´re a super freak. Your´re super freaky.
i have always really liked what you do..whatever that´s worth.
now REALLY gonzo.
kat
1933 ahh those were the days when others spoke on our behalf…………..
Thanks, as you are hungry this is for you….ha aha ha ahha……. http://etrouko.com.au/art/new00.jpg
say I’m the sort of person who is prone to massive rants and generally pisses people off. An editor sees my link, likes my work but thinks “Man. I wouldn’t hire him because I couldn’t risk sending him into a sensitive situation…” It’s not beyond the realms of possibility in the “real world” of photography.
———————————-
Sure, Ross, but that’s in theory, I am strictly talking in relation to what we have written already. We all have our moments, but no one is coming off that bad. I still think that they do not read the comments, save distractly, though, once in a blue moon. “they” can feel free to let us know (or David) otherwise
Anyway, how influential are people in a profession losing its influence? :-))))
Imants ..
More
more
more..
Sorry I meant more, more, more..
( why do I keep writing vertically when I only shoot horizontally??? I will never get it…:)
Imants
ohmygod..i have handmade silver earrings (2 inches long) on that look exactly like that fish. see what i mean? freaky.
Panos
yin and yang, babe..
Herve; “but no one is coming off that bad”
Exactly; that’s why I said that I thought we had a good mix here… Just talking hypothetically. :-)
“Anyway, how influential are people in a profession losing its influence?” Respectfully; probably not for you because you aren’t in the game professionally. And no; that’s not a snide comment, just an observation.
This endless, rambling angst is really strange. I don’t know how many unique visitors look at this web site, but those of us actually posting have devolved into a few bad tempered old ladies in a moldy old nursing home. Seriously.
I’m so tired…
1 more hour.. 7 more families to shoot..
Bills can’t wait.. Lost another day hiding behind my camera
and 2 Hensel lights..
I’m living it up!!!!
Yeah..:(((
good afternoon from Lynwood..
( ghetto somewhere in south central LA)
Not taken snidely, Ross. If anything happens with me, it will be quite accidentally, thru the “back door”, and posthumously as well! Only saying that because I am an inveterate optimist too! :-))
I think influential people in the business, may be also worried about even more influential people, or just influences, period (like financial types) cutting funds, positions, whole media sections.
Not sure if David used that very word, but knowing him, I am sure he did not mean an hiring hierarchy hovering silently over BURN, but something more organic, more setting wheels in motion, people who are keen to take a chance on new major talent to be fostered and encouraged, not really, IMO again, looking to fill up vacancies or positions where they work.
We will see. At some point, BURN will have a track record, on who has achieved something, what, and how too. David said that’s his goal.
.
Oh cmon Jim..:)
we’re just sharing our life stories..
Just a chat..
The unique visitors u just mentioned should be
busy checking the 500 essays and the trillion singles..
I wish I was a unique visitor…:)
I wish I was a virgin once again..
Herve; “I am sure he did not mean an hiring hierarchy hovering silently over BURN”
Maybe there are, maybe there aren’t who knows. But for me Burn’s most important aspects are the ability to bounce ideas off David, and to interact with other photographers from all over. It’s got to help push your work to a greater level (of quality). And to me that is the aim, keep pushing your abilities to their limits.
Panos; you doing studio work? I thought you were working for FedEx or similar?
WOOO!
Panos Thank you for that funny note a few pages back about the workshop. :D
Boot camp you say? Well i hope so. I need to relate to this world better… I have the hardest time with that.
:)
As
for
typing
like… that yeah, that’s hard to read but fun :) it’s a personality thing…
Everyone else who wrote me – Great! Thanks! This is the first time behind a computer today I woke up with about 4 hours of sleep ate a slice of bread and just now had the first meal after working on some cars and running about all day.
I’ll respond to each of you individually!
I’m going to go out on a limb here … hopefully this is appropriate.
I’ll be attending the workshop this fall – from what people have told me who went last year, they sublet a place near the loft – Is anyone else on here attending the workshop as well and would be interested in doing something similar? I heard it was much cheaper than any hotel – and maybe cheaper than the YMCA. I have reservations for the Williamsburg Y, but after reading a bunch of reviews and some other input from those here, that Y seems to be along the lines of a roach motel – only the roaches manifest as bed bugs and other creepies.
If anyone here is going to be there as well please email me and maybe we can find a nice sublet for the week. :) cool?
jason@jasonhouge.com
everyone have a great weekend! I’ll be in Chicago over the weekend, I’ll have my phone and read my emails that way.
panos, I’m probably just grouchy tonight. :) Been shooting setup shots of the cast from a play with my 4×5 today. Fussing with LF all day sure makes you appreciate a Leica! But they wanted very large, old fashion looking prints, and the Toyo and Fomapan 200 film should do it. ;)
Ross..!
FedEx? Me?
I wish.. I do make a living with a camera for
the last 21 years now…
Laughing..
( except for my first 3 years in LA that I was a busboy at my sisters coffeeshop in Santa monica)..
FedEx is my nickname that DAH gave to me last year
due to my tendency of finishing and “delivering” things on time..)
laughing ..
Jason…
I’ll email u more fun details later..
I got your last email.. Give me an hour to beat traffic…
Thanks Panos! I give you two hours. :)
DAVID (ah), JOHN (vink):
any thoughts on the Noorderlicht saga between AP and Stuart???….
i’ve been following it this week…i wrote one of the curators (friend of mine) to see what they think on the ground…
for those who aren’t aware of what happened, here’s an encapsulation…
http://www.david-campbell.org/2009/09/04/photographing-gaza-more-questions-in-the-case-of-ap-vs-stuart-franklin/
running
bob
“FedEx is my nickname that DAH…” Lol!!
Ross :)
im too tired to search and find that FedEx post..
but to be more specific he also nicknamed Patricia FedEx as well…
2PAC… once said:
“…my mama said, never stop until you bust a nut…”
And thats the only one of the Ten Commands im truly committed to..
:))
ALL
I was going to enter into a REALLY BIG CONTROVERSIAL RANT about ANDREAC’s comments, but as usual it dissappeared into cyber dissonance land!
ARGH!
Then I read JIM POWERS hilarious comment and laughed myself into a way better mood. JIM I bags the rocking chair in the corner next to the coffee (though it just might be too stimulating for me)
Anyway, ANDREA I wanted to write to you in a private email but you don’t have a link to your photos or contacts so I am just going to say I don’t know where you are from, how long you spent in Northern Territory or indeed any Aboriginal community or why your impressions are so mixed, but I believe that if you had a little more insight you would truly change your tune as to what the truth of the situation is in Australia for Aboriginal people.
Have a look at my website and let me invite you to come and meet some of the Aboriginal folk I know.
And just quickly let me tell you a little story…One of my best mates Leon is an actor and we were standing around after we had been out to dinner the other night and about five empty cabs drove past us. I made him go stand behind the bus shelter and the next empty cab stopped for me straight away.
This is a link to Leon’s latest movie,
http://www.stonebrosmovie.com.au/
Its had its previews at Greater Union and it was directed by a very smart Yorta Yorta man Richard Franklin… Leon is the fella with the really crazy hair on the left!
ALSO
IMANTS I think you are brilliant!
WENDY I love the way you write!
Yep… Jim.:)
i agree with Lisa above…
you turned out to be the “cute teddy bear” of burn…
You are a great comedian too…!!!
ALSO
IMANTS I think you are brilliant!
hmmm… i used to think about this one for quite a while now…
but now i will have to agree…
so Lisa is right on, once again…
moon over downtown LA right now…9:43 pm
Lisa, I still count Rabbit-Proof Fence as one of the best movies I’ve seen.
Erica, hey now! I didn’t know :)) Ah how I wish I’d taken my camera to all those shows I went to during high school and the few years following – 80s east coast. So many, so many I don’t know how many … more than 60 to be sure. I even remember a few, so maybe I wasn’t actually there. Hmmm, I think I lost my mind on a roller coaster at Hersheypark. Talk about all the best photos being on the edges!
jim is jack dee..
i woke up and thought it was friday today – BONUS..
bob – interesting post.. something to think about.. no time to think now.. think i will think later..
cheers
d
‘impotent people’ can go piss themselves.
Y T O S E
O T I H R I V
U E N O I A I T T E
K G G N Z , S M G A N
N M T F O Y S U N H A
O A I O N T W
W I R D A I O
, E L R
D
…had a couple of minutes to kill…
So,
A i m t o a .
k c a w u y .
a a k h ‘ i :
k n e a r n )
y ‘ o t e g
, t u y s .
…please try again…
Civi…
I’m all for free expression, as long as the motive is to communicate ideas and feelings.
The content carries more weight than the presentation… well most of the time…
but as usual it dissappeared into cyber dissonance land!
————————–
Lisa, “copy” your longer texts, at least they are saved.
argh – akaky..
i know you need to lay down.. unable to fathom why?
If you have 20 minutes to spare, photographer ABBAS in Perpignan answering questions on the site of his exhibit (in 2 parts):
http://www.youtube.com/user/olivierclaurent#play/all/uploads-all/2/yyDnZdAV4Nw
Shove a camera on a table ask a few questions…..boring as….. jeez the British Journal of Photography sure knows how to kill a interview
DAVID BOWEN
Isn’t that
“‘Incontinent people’ can go piss themsleves”…?
Sorry.. (whispered hehehehehe….)
DAVID BOWIE
Isn’t that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhSYbRiYwTY
:)
lisa – you’re quite right.. they bloody well can.
grr.
panos
‘This video is not available in your country due to copyright restrictions. ‘
bloody copyright..
bloody bloody..
:o/
a FIX for mr. harvey..
a new camera bag..
no less…
nothing like a fishing bag..
but still
http://www.ilovephotoblogs.com/cool-new-camera-bag
Does anyone have a pictures from visa 2009?
audrey has posted some here…
http://www.ilovephotoblogs.com/cool-new-camera-bag
and has a full gallery on facebook, which i am unable to post a link to..
AUDREY.. can you post the public link to your facebook phots?
Of course, here is the link…
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=102221&id=800394835&l=b60dee5472
Other links…
Vida Loca of Christian Poveda http://www.lafemme-endormie.com/vidaloca/
article le monde http://www.lemonde.fr/carnet/portfolio/2006/02/28/le-monde-2-au-salvador-le-gang-a-fleur-de-peau_746190_3382.html
Visa, Interviews of photographers http://www.photographie.com/magazine/publication/105587/fr/index.html
Thanks again, Audrey. Probably many of you know that Christian Poveda was shot dead a few days ago:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-tc-nw-salvador-film-0903-090sep04,0,6083404.story
great.. vida loca.. jeeez
“Christian is just one of the 10 who will die today,” photographer Edu Ponces wrote on the Salvadoran Internet newspaper El Faro. “If you look long enough down the throat of the lion, he will eat you.”
I’ve just looked at Poveda’s stuff. I know we’ve hashed this out before, but for the life of me I can’t understand why someone would risk their life just to get some sensational pictures.
Uh oh… http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/09/leaked-leica-m9.html
Ah, hell’s bells, WordPress has pressed the life out of my parallelogram! Nerts. And after all the time I spent getting it just right, too.
THODORIS, dont feel bad; I dont remember what the hell I was saying, either.
DAVIDB, I would lay down, but I have family up and over for the holiday and they are all at my house at the moment, whereas I am at work enjoying the lack of family. I love other people’s family get-togethers so much, I always wonder why I look forward to my family’s get-togethers with all the enthusiasm I lavish on having red hot forks jabbed into my eyeballs. Ah well, what can you do?
I can’t understand why someone would risk their life just to get some sensational pictures.
—————————————–
Probabaly because it was his life. Not to make sensational pictures, but to “get closer”. We are not made of the same mettle, Gordon.
Maybe he did not heed that changes in the gang hierarchy bode trouble for himself too, or maybe he had his own daemons to stick just abit longer than safety would allow. What killed him may have given him the fulfilments and experiences that most people won’t experience, because truly, they will not give a chance to let life happen to them. They just walk along it, safely, as if by a precipice.
not ALL made of the same mettle…
Many times after years of surviving on the front line of danger, photographers get the idea they are bullet proof. They are, of course, incorrect.
relating to Anton’s essay:
Patricia, you have mistaken my intention. Your words were the best to illustrate the meaningfulness of tribal, indigenous life (even though you yourself used them in a different context, inner city resilience rather than tribal, like Jan’s) .
They were of course meant to be taken out of the context you placed them for earlier, and put in a new context, that which I think David wanted to place Anton’s shots in, societies within the bigger whole society, with their rituals, bonding, belonging, etc….
Imants, Since you often question my being a moral being, as I do the yakuzas here, when I think of moralizing here on BURN, you are always the one I look up to, even though I am not worthy.
I am in awe of what Anton is doing and I said so before. It doesn’t mean that there are absolutely no questions to be pondered, because he is doing so well with it.
GORDON….
i do not think you can characterize Christian Poveda as someone who was risking his life just to “take a few sensational pictures”…have you watched La Vida Loca in it’s entirety?? watch that first, then let’s have a conversation…having spent the better part of two years living with and photographing gangs, i can tell you there are many ways to die…when drugs and rival gangs are in constant interplay, it is impossible to know how any given day will work out…and the “reasons” for perhaps ending up dead, might simply be one person in the gang deciding or having been challenged by another gang member…however, it does sound as though Christian knew it was coming…the word went out..somebody felt betrayed…the challenge always when working in these circumstances is knowing when to quit..when to go home….it is a difficult line to walk…anyway, watch the film…it is all in there….
BOB…
when i was in London in june, i stayed at the home of Stuart Franklin…he was in the process of editing the Palestinian exhibition…i did see the work of the Palestinian photographers and i must say this was some of the most grisly war photography i had ever seen…however, i did not see the final edit, nor even realize Stuart was writing a forward for his edit..so not having seen the work in it’s final form, nor read Stuart’s words, i cannot comment on the result..i will attempt to get a copy..
cheers, david
Herve the world does not revolve around you, my comment on Anton’s images was for him and I han’t read your comment there until now………. it seems that paranoia has firmly entrenched itself into your mindset.
Always mixing up Hideous Kinky and Holy Smoke..be kind quote was from the latter.
Imants…
Who are the “moralists and the wowsers”?
Another is it me person……….. the comment was not directed at any particular person here.
David
I realize my characterization of Christian may have sounded harsh and flippant. I’m sorry for that, and meant no dis-respect. I will assume he was a very passionate person who was trying to make a difference and pushed his luck too far.
I will try to find the entire film and watch it.
It will be tough to watch however. From what I have seen so far, I cannot connect with the humanity of his subjects. I only see an ugly bunch of vicious, bizarre, out of control people. To echo Jim’s comment on Antons work, I’m not sure why I should care about these people when there are so many other places that deserve my compassion.
I have written here many times before wondering why photogrphaphers are attracted to such situations. I’m frankly always suspicious of the photogrpahers motives. To be sure, putting yourself in harms way may result in a unique body of work. But I’m afraid I just don’t get it. Just to put it bluntly, when I read of Christians death, and viewed his work, all I felt is anger. What a waste, what a shame, what a tragedy for his family.
Imants…
Not at all, as I made no comment on Anton’s photos. Just curious who you meant. If it was nobody and you just were spouting off… that’s cool.
Anton knew what I was referring to so that is what matters, if I had to explain you probably wouldn’t understand.
Well, then… nice chatting with you.
GORDON…
i have no reason to believe, based on all the writing you do here, that you would disrespect anyone….i understand your feelings completely…i too often question photographers motives particularly when covering war…many do go into these environments with suspect motives and sometimes put themselves and others into dire straits for questionable reasons….however, many other photographers seriously feel the need to reveal a side of life that involves unnecessary death in the hope that they may save others or make some aware , assuming that awareness will lead to a change in either political or social conditions…i did not know Christian…but, based on the film, i get the impression he wanted to affect social change…for whatever reasons, and i will do some research, he must have felt compelled to do this work and he surely knew the risks…incidentally, i was talking with a life insurance agent a few years ago and he showed me a chart of risky jobs…jobs of which insurers were wary…journalistic photographer was in the top five most risky jobs…not war photographer, just photographer….regardless of subject matter, photographers are often working on the margins of familiarity with their environment and often have placed themselves in harms way just by the nature of their work…
cheers, david
Hi DAVID..
Thanks for spending the time to view some of my photographs. Can I ask you for a frank answer to something, which images do you think are boring and typical. And which of them , if any, are at all interesting. Brutal honesty is needed… Its clear your time is precious as you have so many needing your input so any brief reply would be enormously helpful.
About the film, thats what I was thinking too. Push it 10% or so. Which I normally cant resist doing even though I so often run the risk of blacking out the highlights.. I so often think, I’ll just let the water be at 23 degrees rather than 22, and I’ll just add a dash more developer and just swish it that much harder and that little bit longer ending up with a neg thats a little on the dark side.. cant help myself.
Thanks DAVID..
cheers to you.
peter.
PETER…
i find the best way to go over work is with Skype….davidalanharvey….give me a call, with a link ready to go…early mornings EDT best…so much more can be done in so much less time….
cheers, david
DAVID…
This is all new to me so thanks for the direction.. I go there and have a look and will probably need a little time to work it out as I’m IT illiterate..
Guess its late over there now so may you have a wonderful dream..
cheers.
peter
I am woman. Hear me raw.
Panos, I still don’t have a mobile phone.
Little Pieces Update
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jinju/collections/72157621903384003/
New work, new edits. Check it out.
RAFAL…
damn…i have three books in the works and am totally swamped, yet i do want to work with you on this one…i have no idea where i will find the time…not that you are probably in a hurry, but let’s start thinking….please either by private email or here, give me your three top choices for publisher…and don’t forget the group essay…maybe it is already in.. i will check tommorrow…
you have not stopped…great…
cheers, david
Dabid,
heh I TOTALLY understand. I myself am swamped like crazy. 2nd kid on the way, will be born within this month, and I also started an MBA course…all this on top of regular work and life stuff. Damn, and I used to be lazy.
Grou essay isnt in yet. Im now starting to sequence from the batch I chose. Will take a bitt o put it all together to be ready for submitting
Top 3 publishers. Well David, I think that would be fantastic if one of those actually picked it up.
Sorry for the typos btw, especially your name. Ive got a management book on my desk while I type this.
Lisa
I am sorry your long message got lost in cyberspace but these things happen and maybe it was for the best. Where do you live? Really, I am not against aborigines. I thought I made that plain. I do believe that most of the worst of what we see and hear about is due to the clash of civilisations (to probably use that phrase incorrectly). But even so, the things I saw are real. We all know that. They are symptomatic of a profound breakdown of aboriginal society. Nevertheless, I know all is not lost. There is good news. It’s just that people don’t care to talk about that so much.
How long was I in NT? Not so long. I was just riding through on my bicycle recently along the Savannah Way. I went to Doomadgee and Borroloola communities. I also passed through Normanton, Burketown, Mataranka, Roper Bar and Tennant Creek. (In a previous life I visited Lockardt River and Edward River missions, I have been to Yarrabah on several occasions. Still all very superificial). I haven’t listed all the negative things I saw on my trip, nor all the positive things. I enjoyed mixing, albeit superficially, with the locals but they are often very stand-offish with white people. I understand and accept that. The older people (50+) are more relaxed and friendly. The age group in their 30s and 20s and even 40s have quite a bit of attitude towards us. I don’t entirely blame them for that either.
Aside from this trip I am from FNQ, though Imants and I probably went to the same art school in Sydney. I was never a Jo fan. I am a green voter if that matters. I have mixed a little with aborigines from a young age. At my school, we had three little kids just a little younger than me, who were taken from their family and fostered out to a family from Gladstone. They were taken because their natural family (in Townsville) couldn’t or wasn’t looking after them properly. K. could tell us about that as she was old enough. There were also lots of kids from Yarrabah and other missions up the Cape. There were also lots of kids from the Torres Straits and even PNG. My first boyfriend was an aborigine. His family were very upstanding people.
When I was having a go at a Masters in Art History, I did my dissertation on Aboriginal art (on the topic of reconciliation in particular). I came upon a very moving story about Emily Kngwarreye and another old woman painter who, upon seeing one of Emily’s paintings hanging in the National Gallery in Canberra, began singing the painting. What a moment. I wish I could have been there. That was undoubtedly a moment of pure spiritual expression.
I live near Mossman. There are some good things going on there with the local community but of course there are the usual social problems they have always had as well.
I expressed myself in the way I did about Aboriginal society because I am very anti-spiritual/religious and I just happen to be closer to aboriginal society than any other old society. When I lived in Tasmania I attended a some sort of healing thing which had brought aborigines from all over the country. There was a lot of new-age spiritual tripe going on but also a wonderful demonstration of the men dancing for the women. The Aboriginal men invited all the white men to learn this dance – which was essentially everyone prancing around as emus. I can’t remember if there was more to it. So there were about 50 men and boys dancing for us women. It was hilarious and wonderful. I consider this cultural, not spiritual.
No doubt Imants still thinks I’m an incarnation of Pauline Hanson.
I’d love to do some work with Aboriginal communities – maybe in the future, maybe something about the art industry? Who knows. But I am off to India on my bike shortly and travelling through a lot of tribal areas. If anyone has any advice about how to get the most out of that interaction, please feel free to share. I don’t expect to get anything very deep given I won’t have a fixer and I don’t speak their language. They do not welcome photography for the most part I understand. My interest in them is mainly with regards to their creative expression.
Lisa, i can’t remember if you invited me to do something. Maybe one day I can take you up on that if you are genuine.
Rafal
Great photos. I really love them. But I think you should not be in hurry with book. You have time, need years (my oppinon). You are like Larry Towell. Great stuff. Highest level.
peace
MARCIN…
i would NEVER rush a book…however, some books take a long time, some do not…i think Larry took about 5 years to do most of the Front Porch pictures….Martin Parr can do a book in 5 weeks…Rafal will work at his own pace i am sure…
cheers, david
BTW… Wojtek Grzędzinski Polish photographer wins Visa d’Or for photos from Georgia. :)
for me it’s 25 years to make a book ha ha
I think a book like this would need to come out in natural times. I think because its a project that is about daily life there need to be certain time marks that would naturtally end one chapter and begin another. Perhaps the birth of my daughter this month will be just such a time. I think that it certainly is a temptation to put out a book, 100%.
all,
James Chance is one of four finalists du Grand Prix CARE 2009, Congratulations!
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2300880&l=2380d57573&id=800394835
Congrats James!
RAFAL,
I’ve seen your work before and viewed it again. It’s some fantastic work!
JAMES…
congratulations…fingers crossed….
MARCIN…
yea, me too….
David,
Good morning. :))
I’ve just sent e-mail to you.
Please check it.
Thank you.
Good Luck James !
ANTON,
What have you suddenly done to the code for BURN? I am getting either totally blank pages, or unformatted pages with white backgrounds in both Safari and Firefox. What happened?
Am still on the road for the week but have been looking in on the phone to see what you are alll up to..
Audrey looks like Perpignan went well
Rafal am excited to see your new images
James great news
Jim I hear my 50 rolls are developed but I am far from them in miles – I hope I have not kept your lens too long – first on my to do list on my return is to pick up the negs and see what is what, with the question of what lens to buy – you have been so patient
DAH dah DAH how are you? I’ll be home with new negatives in hand before Monday … Am going to scramble together a low res edit to show you before the 20th or so of September.. Skype or in person if you’ll be in brooklyn would be a great help before the expression deadline at the end of the month, if you can manage…
I don’t want to push the questions interview with you, just curious if you made any headway.
Sorry, I am badly expressed, Luca Catalano Gonzaga is the prize-winner(lauréat) du Grand Prix CARE 2009 but James is one of four finalists, he has a exhibition at Visa pour l’Image! Congratulations again!
DAVID :)))
got ur message (dima and i were canoeing :)) )….will call u this afternoon about what we talked about :))…
as for the Noorderlicht incident. Stuart’s essay was removed and i havent seen the text in full either. AP’s main argument was that they lent the pictures to be for a ‘non-political’ exhibition…and considered Stuart’s essay to be ‘political’ in nature…for me, completely ridiculous for all photographs, particularly photographs of war and destruction and death, are (a priori) political: all war is political (obviously) and the act of photographing and the act of interpreting or extrapolating from imagery is a human effort to make sense of the nearly senselessness of our continued anger/hatred/destruction of one another. Although I do think the photographs themselves are enough to stand on for viewers to draw their own conclusions (though photography as truth is also a dangerous ground) about the incursion into Gaza (some will agree with Stuart, some will not), it is absolutely the right and the necessity for curators to work imagery and offer their viewpoint, because (and who knows this more than I as a writer/photographer and as someone who has curated) who says that the text is more powerful or more persuasive than the photographs themselves…if anything, the act empowered stuart’s in abstensia text….a great irony….i cannot help but feel that there is something behind the AP’s decision (pressure?)….either way, the exhibition is a powerful and horrific testament to the madness of what continues to happen in Gaza….I’d love to see stuart’s text as well….
JAMES: CONGRATULATIONS AMIGO….toes crossed too :)))
RAFAL: yes, i cant wait until the Familial stuff comes on Burn…and as for as Little Pieces/Family Ties, yes, i think a logical ending would be with the birth of your second child….and the work (as u know) is strong strong strong and it would make a great book….dont rush a book (as what seems to always happen with everyone) but the work, for it’s nature, is there….it’s all good….i walked away from my first photo book opportunity, because i wanted something else, but then again, i am me ;))))…i think Little pieces of Us is ready or rather, once u get through the next step (your daughters arrival), bring it own….it will be a wonderful book….indeed….and more importantly, congratulations to both of you on the expectancy of your daughter’s arrival: that’s the most important news of all…cheers,
A NOTE ABOUT CHRISTIAN:
I was shocked and horrified to read today here the description of Christian’s work as sensationalist….i literally had to leave the computer and sit and meditate before i returned….This is so extraordinarily off base and misinformed that it sets, again for me, an example of how easy it is to make pronouncements against a body of work or a person without an inkling of insight. I did not know Christian personally, but we do share common friends and i have been familiar with his work for a long time, at one point, trying to exhibit the work here as part of my old projection project. Far from being sensationistic, christian and his work was dedicated to telling the stories of these men and women and children, the living and the dying that defined their lives. Unlike many phtoographers who drop in via helicopter or airline and photograph a problem and then depart, christian dedicated a large part of his life documenting what the life of the gangs ….for more than 25 years christian centered his life, his work and his committment in El Salvador and to think of him or his work in such superficial terms is the worst kind of callow understanding. It is because of the cut-off indifference that much of the world feels towards people like this, worlds like this, that Christian spent his life fighting: to cut through the walled protection of our own orientations. If we fail to understand their lives and their circumstances, than we fail to understand our connection to people and places and worlds removed from our own and that removal, our failure, is also an indication of what continues to allow for such misery and loss…..Vida Loca, as david suggested, should be watched….but i think more importantly than that is that readers who feel similarly should ask themselves what and why and how is it that his photographs and his films and the people of 18 (the name of the gang Christian spent the most time documenting) produces nothing but a shaking of the head and a turning aside….I know Gordon is one of the most respectful writers here, but Gordon i hope that you would reappraise your reaction to the work and to the people christian gave his life up for trying to help…..
all the best
b
ERICA….
i should be back in NYC by about the 20th, so that should work out just right for your edit..
SIDNEY…
everything should be ok now….i saw the same thing and could not figure it out…simple answer…unpaid bill…the debit card which i use to pay for this site was lost about three weeks ago(i left it in an atm machine accidentally)…the card was quickly replaced, but the info of a new card number was not relayed to this host provider, hence the cut off…i came very close to losing the entire archive for Road Trips for the same reason…now, yes, these providers did evidently send me an email to warn me, but my e-boxes are full and bouncing letters back…hmmmmm, i am expecting the lights to my house to go off any minute since most of my bills are paid automatic withdraw off this debit card….
cheers, david
Excellente Comandante DAH!
David Alan Harvey
Regarding your comment to me on Jan´s Mayan essay. (Unlike Jared, i respect the one-post rule so am commenting to you here). I absolutely agree that the Spaniards and the Catholic Church wrecked havoc on the Aztec, what remained of the Mayan cultures and every single other tribal culture that existed along the route of their conquest of the ¨New World¨. My objection to Jan´s text is his insinuation that the collapse of the great Mayan culture occurred purely as a result of the conquistadores (¨people like him¨). If he had clarified that the great Mayan culture had long since collapsed and their books, writings and skills preserved by a very few scattered tribes, that would have put the acts of the conquistadores in a greater historical context. As Jan explains it, it appears the Spaniards came in and took down this great culture savagely brick by brick. As it is, David and Jan and Jared and all, the Mayans have not only had to resurrect their culture from the mindless destruction of the Catholic Church and the conquistadores but from their OWN previously documented indifference, languor, squalor and inertia. In my mind, this makes for an even more miraculous recovery that is a testament to the cultural greatness of these people. That Jan knew and failed to express this aspect of the Mayan history shapes the bias that i object to and also does a disservice to his subjects. Overcoming the auto-implosion of your own culture and then advancing and preserving what remains of your history in the face of the indifference and passivity of your own people in the face of centuries of subjugation by powerful outsiders makes the Mayans even greater than Jan illustrated.
I hope this clarifies the intent of my original comment.
Best to all:
Kathleen
PS: DAH
With your permission i would like to post this response to you under the essay itself. It will be more or less exactly as i have written, (without the little snarkey bit to Jared, of course ;)
thanks in advance,
Kathleen
David:
left u a message….will write the thing tonight….
and by the way, here is Stuart’s text
it is passionate and angry and fueled by a desire to speak out….anyway….here it is :))
http://www.photoq.nl/articles/nieuws/actueel/2009/09/06/disproportionate-force/
suffice it to say, i stand in full solidarity with Stuart’s text, his curatorial decisions and the importance of the journalism and photography exhibited there by the photographers and their work he choose to exhibit…i also agree with his conclusions, in full…..
KATHLEEN…
yes, this clarifies completely…of course, i knew that you knew….just wanted to make sure Jan was getting your message clearly…many many thanks for amplifying your context…
cheers, david
BOB…
i also believe every word that Stuart wrote…Stuart is a rather scholarly and astute man and speaks and writes in a measured way…yet, he certainly pulled no punches with this text….and while i do personally agree with his text, i can see why AP pulled it…there is just no way to be politically correct when speaking or writing about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict…
while Stuart did acknowledge cruelty on both sides, his overall intent was to highlight the Palestinian suffering , which is after all what this particular set of photographs was all about…i will say this…the pictures alone would have done it…i can imagine the pictures alone would have had most Israelis in tears…the pictures are so horrific that anyone viewing this exhibition would probably have been way more outraged than Stuart…Stuart’s text was conservative compared to what many would have written…
still, AP cannot appear to favor one side or the other regardless of the “truth” of this particular offensive….
i am sure the editors of AP would agree privately with Stuart..they probably pulled it for many reasons, not the least of which is for very practical reasons… they must get press credentials from the Israelis to do their work in Israel/Palestine…openly supporting Stuart’s text would surely have hindered these credentials for AP in the future…remember, AP is in the business of gathering information from both sides of this conflict which on any given day can look violence lopsided one way or the other…most folks on the planet deplore this long term war…most folks know that horror has been initiated by both sides…most folks would recommend peace if possible…most folks have no idea how this can ever be….
cheers, david
KATHLEEN…
absolutely…..
DAH
Good to see you made it back OK. How is Medford these days? I saw his butterfly work at the VNPA convention this year. Excellent!
Turns out we couldn’t have made the trip to see you this weekend anyway since I had a photographer out sick and another on vacation.
Also, don’t worry about the county fair edit. I had to go with my best guess.
Herve the world does not revolve around you, my comment on Anton’s images was for him and I han’t read your comment there until now………. it seems that paranoia has firmly entrenched itself into your mindset.
—————————–
Thanks for your measured answer, Imants. You are right, your comment should have not been taken personally by me, I do apologize.
As far as the World not revolving around me. Probably, but not sure yet…. :-))))
Didn’t know if this had been see and commented on here….
From Photo District News:
“Getty Images has just announced the latest winners of its Getty Images Grants for Editorial Photography program. Krisanne Johnson, Brenda Kenneally and Zalmai will receive $20,000 grants. Two student winners, Ed Ou and Carl Kiilsgaard will receive $5,000….”
“Carl Kiilsgaard`s project, “The White Family,” follows a family that has lived in rural Kentucky – where, in 1964, President Lyndon Johnson declared a war on poverty that has not yet been won – for generations. Kiilsgaard notes that, “The Getty Images grant will allow me to continue to raise awareness about those struggling in a region that most Americans have forgotten.””
As I am sure everyone remembers, this essay was posted on BURN for a short time.
Thanks Pete.
Why do so many PJs, or their editors at large keep saying their work is about a little known or forgotten place or issue?
First, it is not always true, but in any case, Americans know little about a lot of things. You can almost never been wrong saying that, lest you shoot movie and pop stars, and top drawer sports.
Second, a good part of a PJ job, expecially freelance, is just that. Nothing singular there.
PETE…
Carl’s “The White Family” was a finalist for EPF…do you not remember all the controversy and Carl requested it be taken down???
all the controversy and Carl requested it be taken down
———————————
apparently no such controversy at GETTY IMAGES where there is probably a zero comment rule, and nothing to post them under. :-)
KATHLEEN —
Come on. I know you’re a streetfighter, but it was a simple mistake, the two comments. Posting from an iPhone.
I beg your forgiveness, as you should beg Jan’s for questioning the length of time he’s been shooting. My Mom takes photos of her kids with a little point and shoot and posts them to flickr, should she get hooked on photography in the future would it be fair to say she’s been shooting for 15 years? Probably not…
Still wondering why Jan gets bashed for relaying to us his personal vision of a people, while Anton goes through relatively unscathed. Neither of them deserve bashing IMO, just curious. Is it the “anti-religious/spiritual” that Andrea wa stalking about? If not what is it?
DAH,
Yes I remember. I was just pointing out that he won the grant.
“…Americans know little about a lot of things…”
HERVE, this is absolutely untrue. I am an American and as a product of the finest educational system in the world I can assure you that I know absolutely nothing about damn near everything. The idea that any American could go through our educational system and actually know something about anything is just too damn ridiculous for words. The purpose of education is to raise the child’s self-esteem, and this was certainly true with me. I may be dumb as a stump, but I feed good about myself and I will not have anyone threaten my good opinion of myself by quibbling about mere information. If I want to find out about something, I can go to Wikipedia and look it up.
Andrea has shown to be exactly the contrary of what was heaped against her.
Tolerant,quite capable of seeing and aggreeing with others views, keeping the dialogue open, and altogether bringing balance, so that she succeeded in making it not another theoritical X vs Y debate, with PCness one-liners, (the new “TEN+ COMMANDMENTS” of our age) as the ultimate referee.
Regarding the glorification of indigenous cultures and education and new agey-ness and “anti-religious/spiritual” stuff… Few can crystallize it all quite like Tim Minchin:
Akakay! :-)))
In a way, the difference between many americans and many europeans is merely that the european (that’s the french for me) takes pride in thinking he knows so much, whereas many americans take pride in not needing to know that much. The end result is often the same: practical ignorance ;-)
Just discovered this space in BURN…
KATHLEEN: No worries, I actually did feel your statement a little too aggressive, but no worries i’m cool with it, we’re just playing around, and remember it is through the Internet we’re communicating and more often than not, true intentions get lost. Thanks for clarifying what you wrote, it gives another dimension and understanding to it, and it is something I could’ve used.
JARED… thanks for keeping it up for me!
PATRICIA… I truly respect your work and your life experience, i would really like to read what you think about my project, positive or negative.
By the way, I forgot to clarify one thing. i wrote about the “definition of development”, and some folks got angry cause it felt i was against “technology”. That was not what i was trying to express, i love my computer, my house, and my camera (digital), just like probably all of you. But for me, true development comes from the inside. Just one more lesson for me when using words to express myself…
AUDREY, ALL…
Thanks for your kind wishes! Sorry for a bit of an anticlimax, but the winner was announced a while back. Did get work exhibited at Visa though as you saw (thanks Audrey!), which is cool.
Sorry, forgot to mention the winner was Luca Catalano Gonzaga…
HERVE…
the controversy with Carl and The White Family had to do with the White family themselves who did not realize when Carl was shooting that he would publish some of the more explicit material..specifically drug use and the wife beating……
Carl took the material off of Burn after the EPF was judged to avoid potential complications with the White family…i spoke with Carl at length about his predicament and agreed the story should come down…i am sure his edit for Getty was quite different than it was for Burn, at least he told me he was going to re-edit and keep the strongest negative images out…
Carl told us early on that he had permission from the White family to make these photographs in the first place, but i think the reality of that permission sunk in to another reality when they actually saw themselves in print…
cheers, david
Hi Jared..
hahaha, yeah, i know, i was being mean to you because i wanted to keep running my mouth under Jan´s essay and was put in a choke-hold by the one post rule. I was sorry as soon as i said that about you. But ok, still, STILL, when someone says they´ve been taking pictures for a year and everybody goes, wowwwwww, after ONE year you´re shooting like THIS?!? It´s a sort of accidental on purpose distortion that gives a false impression. Any one of us could say we started taking photographs the day we got REALLY serious about a specific project or made photography our career choice. But no matter, one year, two years, three years, cuz Jan´s a kick-ass shooter and he´s going to go far. i wish i could be 22 and starting photography. Si, tengo celos!
As far as Anton´s project, i haven´t even seen it yet. I take a long time between essays because i take them so seriously. But i am extremely interested in what he´s doing and it´s next on my list.
Jan:
Well, cool, now i don´t have to cut and paste my comment under your essay. I have thought sooo much about your Mayan project and the photos have stayed with me for days. It is often like this for me. i look and look at an essay, think so much about it, the photos stay with me sometimes forever. And the issues of Mayan history and present circumstances are very interesting to me, not least of which because they have had to come from way, way behind to resurrect not only what the Spaniards destroyed but what they destroyed themselves. I am in awe of that kind of resilience and determination.
i also live in Costa Rica as most people at Burn know and am very aware of the issues Whitney is facing in her Indigenous project because we are friends. She and i have discussed your essay at length. Between your project and hers i am much more keenly sensitive to the complexity of preserving Indigenous traditions on the one hand and even marginally integrating the cultures and belief systems into modern law and western culture. Did you see La Nacion today and their 2 articles on the Indigenous? One discussed the fact that swine flu is far more prevalent in the Talamanca region of the Bri-Bri tribe due to poor hygiene and malnutrition and the other discussed the issue of enforcing the laws in the reservations both on behalf of and sometimes against the Indigenous. One example given was the case of the Indigenous individuals (including immediate family members) who killed a fellow tribe member by beating him to death for alledgedly putting curses on them.
The issues are very, VERY complex and your essay really just gave a taste (by necessity) of what´s at stake for the Mayans and for Indigenous everywhere.
Best,
Kathleen
(street-fighter ;)
DAH…
I see there are more storms kicking up down your way. You’re not bailing or sand-bagging the house yet, are you?
YES DAVID and BOB… I cant help but agree with both of you.. Those facts and sentiments Stuart pointed out in his preamble to the Gaza exhibition are the most obvious issue’s that come to mind for people like myself and the feelings left are similar. How can the US and Europe continue to not speak out more concretely. Power and playing out alliances obviously. I can see what your saying David is a very important issue for AP as is for other organizations such as the ICRC who rely on an apolitical position so they can do what they are there to do, indiscrimately look after people or report on events on an ongoing basis. Bob, I also feel that from the sounds of this exhibition these images will speak a thousand word’s and most level headed unbiased thinkers will come to the conclusion Stuart has though possibly without some of the historical facts.
Thanks BOB for putting this link up for us to read.
cheers,
peter.
KAT —
‘Tis the Internet. I’ve had to forgive and be forgiven quite a few times on the web. Especially with no edit button. Interested in what you think regarding the similarites (I fell) regarding the approach both Jan And Anton have taken.
(hoping I’m on stray cat)
Feel. Damned iPhone.
Yes, David, we probably all remember. Though also, it is fair to say that some of us had problems (saw controversy) with the essay itself, namely that it was depicting, to be short, addiction to poverty, rather than poverty.
Which is a story or angle that few, who are not the “forgetting” type, know or wish to acknowledge, including, IMO, Carl too.
Hi David,
just sent you an e-mail . cheers,
katharina
jared
thanks…for…uh..well, you know ;)
yes, am scanning right now and will multitask my way through Anton’s project..
take care and have a great evening, wherever you are!
xo
kathleen
HERVE
I think you and ANDREA are a match made in heaven…
And I am sure this will be much to RAFAL’s pleasure but I have to take an indefinite leave of absence from BURN…
Though it was nice to pop back for a while, keep up the good work folks,
Cheers
you will be greatly missed, Lisa..be well, come back sooner rather than later..
*sniff-sniff*
kathleen
Hi All –
Sorry for the off topic post,
I need some help!
I need to insure my equipment, and I’m looking Hays insurance through the NPPA. But I want to shop around more. Who / What do you guys recommend?
Also – Anton & DAH, Burn seems to be acting up… It’s here some moments and gone the next with Internal Server errors…
Jason, is THAT ever a timely subject..insurance! I have been wondering about this very thing myself…i’ll be watching the answers here..
thanks!
Kathleen
DAH, I’m trying to reach you by phone. I’ll try again on Tuesday morning about 7 A.M.
Patricia
JASON..
It will be interesting to hear what you learn about the pro’s and con’s with difference insurance policies.. I wish I could offer you some advice.. Good luck with it.
take care.
I think you and ANDREA are a match made in heaven…
——————————
Lisa :-)))))… Boo-oo-ooo, sexism…. You would have never said that if Andrea was a guy. ;-)
thanks Patricia for your comment, it was really really constructive!
Herve
The autumn is comming where do you go this year my friend? India, thailand? :)
For me no trips (even small one) this year :(
Herve no worries sprocket……….. Andrea try south oz and teh Melbourne Hotel for an art school
Night Kat,
I did have a great night, hope you did too…
Where’s Panos. Where’s the muzak?
DAVID
Just tried to call you…but no answer. Please call me at your convenience. Thanks ;=)
Patricia
LISA…
please stay in touch via private email if you wish….
peace, hugs, david
Wojciech Grzedzinski has been awarded a Visa D’Or, despite all the nonsence going round the web about the photo being a set up.
respect !
http://www.worldphotographyawards.org/academy_news.aspx?id=21
CIVILIAN
where in greece are you?
waiting on confirmation for a commission to the islands at the end of the month.
david@bophoto.co.uk
civi – cancel that.. they’re sending me elsewhere :o)
Our own Sean Gallagher, first-time EPF awardee, has pulled off another coup, visiting and photographing under cover in North Korea. Good work, Sean! See the article accompanying his photos in the Toronto Globe and Mail:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/inside-north-korea-will-these-people-see-change/article1276923/
sidney
sneaky, eh?
he’s only gone and blogged it as well..
http://gallagher-photo.com/blog/2009/09/05/inside-north-korea-video-1/
SIDNEY…
i am working on an edit of Sean’s North Korea work now…here soonest….
gordon L said under the new essay;
“Being a non-American, I always feel hesitant to comment on touchy issues, but people going bankrupt over “medical bills” is absolutely criminal and obscene.”
absolutely right.
especially when there seems to be plenty of money in the pot for less altruistic pursuits.
Perfect timing with American Nightmare … and it never ceases to amaze me how far some people will go to vote against their own self interest. The same well of … hate? … that led Van Jones to jump under the bus
(his book The Green Collar Economy is brilliant) continues to poison hope for change here … I’m getting cynical again.
Wish I had thought of this:
Billionaires for Wealthcare
p.s. i’m not crazy …
tom – are you some lefty socialist or what?
craaaazy..
funny stuff, that video.. highest form of protest – humor.
http://www.humanfiles.com/welcome/truck-for-sale/comment-page-1/#comment-100
“tom – are you some lefty socialist or what?”
me? apparently, according to the neocons ;-))
Tom
People voting against their own self interest.
It’s a strange world. An interesting statistic. In the previous presidential election, Gore-Bush, if they had been running in Canada, Bush would have recieved 11% of the popular vote.
YOUNG TOM…
i do not talk politics on Burn, but you brought it up …
the ban in many schools around the country of the Obama speech to school children allowed me to overhear a conversation at the next table as i had my breakfast in a local restaurant…two men talking….one said to the other, “thank God they banned his speech, i wouldn’t want my children exposed to that shit”…Obama of course talked about reading good books, family values and staying in school….that was right after i saw a Fox News show (yes, i am morbidly fascinated) where Glen Beck interviewed Rush Limbaugh (yes, laughable if it was not so scary) on immigration and the “administration’s control of the media”…frightening stuff…and very thinly veiled racism IMO…
ok, that was it…now, back to photography….got any more strong singles?? you are the singles maven of Burn…keep em coming you thinly veiled lefty….i mean, you are left handed..right??
cheers, david
Rush Limbaugh
fuck all “rushes”
i need a new mountain bike…
Everytime i here fox…
i will jump with my “intense” or “santa cruz” 4banger from the 4th floor of my insane building of little salvador in Downtown Los Angeles….all the way down to Lake st… then make left, then El Taurino…
i hate El Taurino… i hate and love LA..;)
PANOS…
you have a mountain bike?? really?? great riding just an hour or so outside of L.A….i built up a titanium frame several years ago…of course, it is “outdated” now, but still a cool bike and i cannot even make it do all that it can do…i just try to survive on some of the mountain single tracks…freelance photographers of course should not go mountain biking in the first place…too damn dangerous…easy to break something besides the bike…jumping curbs in downtown L.A. is crazy enough…everything you do is crazy enough Panos…looking forward to seeing your newest work…ready to run with it….SF???
cheers, david
Go the way of the fixed wheel ,keep real with steel nothing liven’s up your ideas like no brakes and not being able to stop pedaling , great for increasing spacial awareness and developing eyes in the back of your head.
David … it’s unbelievable, so bizarre, truly scary. Why not tell it like it is … again.
well.. it does sound like a dangerous speech..
hmm..
okay –
one,
chi-ga,
two,
chi-ga,
one
two
three
four
Herve said: “I also agree with Marcin. More than 71% in the world do not even have paychecks, or medicare. With no recourse to bankruptcy as well, needless say.”
The point of this scandal is that in a first world country no one should lose their whole way of living because they can’t afford medical treatment. America can afford the medical bills of this family. Like it can of every other family. As is the case in many if not most European countries, Australia and New Zealand probably also. Sure if you have private health insurance you can get more and perhaps better treatment but at least if you have no insurance you can be adequately treated. It should be like this in the States. The fact that this is not available is so so scandalous to me. But that is what the American people en masse have chosen so I guess its what they’ve got. But also, and this is probably quite contentious. Since the poor woman has a terminal illness, why prolong the agony with expensive medical treatments that the family can’t afford. Better to go quickly and cheaply. But the medical fraternity is not silly and they know how to milk the population for all it can get.
im happy Sean G has submitted his N,Korea stuff…i wrote him a note over the weekend (after seeing the story in the local paper) and told him i’d love to see it here…it’s strong strong work….
running :))
b
Tom H :)))))))))))))…i think you’re even furter to the right that i am ;))))))))))))))
DAVID
I’d love to hear you expound further on the relationship between text and photo. I realize how they fit together would depend on whether we’re talking about an essay in a magazine –either in print or online — an article or photo story in a newspaper, a book, or even a gallery show when in-depth captions might be used. I guess in some cases, specifically newspapers, the photos are used to illustrate the text. Whereas in books, one would probably see a tremendous range of ways to interweave the photos and text.
In my Falling Into Place project, for instance, I always saw the photos as the primary storytellers and the text as secondary. Yes, I wanted strong text that could hold its own in relation to the photos, but I did not see words as my primary artistic medium. I was not doing a story on disability culture that was being illustrated by self portraits from my life; I was doing a story on my day-to-day life that might have some relationship to disability issues simply because I am disabled. And, as you know, I worked hard to find the poetic image rather than the more literal one. I believe my final images finally accomplished that hard-won goal. So, I was not about telling a narrative in an a-b-c fashion. I hoped to dance rather than plod my way through.
With Michael McElroy’s American Nightmare essay here on Burn, my concern was not the importance of his text — his words are terribly important — but how it fit with his images. To my way of thinking, I seemed to be seeing one story in his photos and reading another in his text. I was not asking him to “illustrate” his words but rather to try to give us some visual hints so his words could more effectively stand alongside his images. And non-literal images would be my preference, but maybe that isn’t Michael’s. It is, after all, HIS essay, not mine. And I totally respect Michael as an artist/documentary photographer who has his own unique way of seeing and communicating. His work is exceptional.
Now maybe I’m all wrong in this. Maybe having his images simply show the nightmare of his wife’s medical crisis and how that affects the family is enough. And then telling the story behind the story, ie., their financial/foreclosure crisis, in words is the most effective way to go. I don’t know. That’s why I’d really like to hear you further discuss this text/image issue here on Burn. Thanks, David. Burn is a treasure…
hugs
Patricia
That cat and mouse game between artist…… audience …. text….image is what keeps work alive .
If you want finite answers buy a dictionary.
imants
“image is what keeps work alive.”
that depends of who is writing the text ;))))…
there’s a bob black line in your book that lives quite nicely with your images, remember
;))))))))))))))))))
running
b
It should read
That cat and mouse game between artist…… audience …. text….image……… is what keeps work alive
“If you want finite answers buy a dictionary.”
Trust me, Imants, if I thought there were a dictionary that would help me better understand how to use words and images together effectively, I’d buy it in a heartbeat. Now you, my friend, have worked it out in the best way possible: your words and your images are ONE!
Patricia
September 8, 2009 at 10:37 pm Edit
ALL..
i pulled my comment to Patricia from under Michael’s essay so you could more easily see the context of her response this morning…
PATRICIA…
you may remember that when we were editing Falling Into Place there were some very important things in your mind and in your life that just did not pictures make….most great essays are very very narrow in their photographic representations of all that may be deemed “important”…pull your favorite books off the shelf …make a list of facts hypothetically pertinent to that book…i think you will see what i mean….most great books show only a small part of the “whole story” as does your book…
particularly in pure photojournalistic essays, as Michael’s, which are generally a marriage of words and pictures…and like any marriage, there are different roles to play….words do some things, pictures do others…
of course, if Michael had a very strong picture that somehow represented the financial situation he is in or the fact that his electricity is off, then surely that would be fine…but, by your own words, you were struck by the visual essay itself until you read the text and then you started wanting more, not based on emotional grounds but on academic grounds……surely a gratuitous picture of Howard looking at his bills would certainly not work even if the financial situation is an important fact in his life…photographers would do well to not think of the a, b, c’s of anything…
think about this…the strongest photographs in this essay are not something you probably would have thought about by reading words and making a list..
for example, take the picture of Howard sitting on the examining table..such a strong photograph, yet not purely “illustrative” of anything said in words…if you had read Michaels words , i doubt you would have said “hmmmm, Michael i think you should have a picture of Howard sitting on an examining table”…that picture came from being a sensitive photographer , being visual, not from ticking off a list….
photographers should of course be aware of all of the “facts”, yet i do not think every single fact requires an accompanying photograph…the very best photographs do what words can never do and the very best words do what photographs can never do…
you wrote “To me, the story told in that wordless way was powerful enough.”…i think perhaps you were right the first time…
cheers, david
PATRICIA…
this is definitely a topic worthy of discussion…and i want to discuss it…but, right now i need to write a new post…as soon as that is done, i will return and respond to your most recent comment…if i were to say just one thing, and maybe this is all that needs to be said, it would be that the combo of text and pictures is so subjective, depends on the topic, depends on the writer, depends on the style and nature of the photography…certainly there can be no rules…i just wrote to you specifically, but i often hear someone say , “well, why didn’t you explore another aspect of such and such..?” basically, for me anyway, if something is THERE, i do not worry about what is not there…anyway, we will go into visual literacy and the marriage of words/pictures soonest….thanks for bringing it up…
IMANTS…
agreed…..
BOB…
your work coming for Marc definitely enhances, and even makes, the upcoming essay what it is…but, still, nothing was REQUIRED…you “felt” the pictures and wrote accordingly …but, shhhhhh….let’s just wait and see…..er, and read!!!
cheers, david
Thanks, David. No rush, but when you have time I think a discussion of “the marriage of words/pictures” would be helpful. Seems to me our comments on photo essays so often address this subject.
And I’m feeling uncomfortable about one thing I wrote in my recent comment about this subject. When I said my final images i Falling Into Place had accomplished my “hard-won goal” of being more poetic annd less literal, I was only referring to two photos not the entire edit. Don’t want to make it sound like I’ve got it all together. Trust me, I don’t!
Patricia
IMANTS :)))))…agreed on the correction :))))) (typing aint my forte either )..
DAVID :))))))))))))….shhhhhhhhhhhhh! :)))))…marina read it this morning….loved it…but, ok, shhhhhhhhhh :))))
hugs
running
bob
David,
I sent you an email re: the publishing idea you had
I think i am in agreement with Patricia when I say I felt something was not working between the text and pictures of Michaels essay. There is no complementing of one with the other. The words knock against the images and leave me, at least, less than satisfied. Unlike Patricia, I read the text first. I really liked the cover shot of the man looking over the balcony. But then almost all the pictures are of his wife in hospital. It is a different story entirely than what is told in the text. I wondered how the one picture of the Dad on the clinic bed fitted in. That didn’t work for me in the photo essay. I kept waiting for something to do with the financial losses to show up but instead there was another hospital shot. I liked the shot of the man leaving the hospital with the umbrella. I am disappointed with the photo essay because I was readied, by the text, for a different story. And i shouldn’t feel like that because the photo essay on its own is fine for the most part. It’s just that it doesn’t work with the text.
Of course, to carry on, even though I wasn’t asked for my opinion, one doesn’t require the relation between text and image to be so narrow as to leave no room. I have seen quite separate and unrelated text and images work wonderfully together. But this is a documentary story not an art piece. In this context, i expect text to tell us what we need to know in order to understand a few important things about the pictures and to appreciate the story of the pictures better.
The part of this story that moves me most is that a couple in their twilight years, all of a sudden, have nothing. An older man losing his also older wife is a common story. It has to be expected. The tragedy here is that this man who has probably worked and saved his whole life to live in a condo and have a nice retirement, suddenly loses it. And it seems its not because of the medical bills even. Its because he got behind in his condo payments. I guess were it not for the medical bills, he might have been able to save himself. But where are the kids? That is the other part of the tragedy. They may not be able to pay the medical bills but you’d think they’d be able to help their old dad hold onto his condo. And when I say this, I’ve had to do the same thing myself for my own parent so I know what that’s all about. So you see the interesting part of this story is not the woman dying, but that is the story told in the essay.
If I were the photographer and I wanted to tell the story of the man’s losses, I would start taking more pictures that reflect all those losses. I would not so many of his wife dying. I would find some old pictures from his past and maybe of the time when they moved in together. Or try to find some way of representing that. Maybe it’s a project that is too difficult to achieve. Maybe its better dealt with in text. I think Duane Michael’s pictures were a lot about loss so I guess it can be done.
Regarding what David said to Patricia…I actually avoid on purpose shots that could tell specific events. What is more important to me is to create a mood instead of a factual representation of what happened.
I think that the perceived problematic relationship between text and pictures in McElroy’s essay derives from his opening paragraph which is apparently intended to act as a link between separate short stories in his ongoing project on the current economic crisis, but when accompanying a single essay seems a bit overreaching. Also, the sheer number of hospital pictures, tip the balance of the picture-part of the specific essay itself in my opinion.
Andrea;
You’re right; here in NZ healthcare is free (and of course we have a reciprocal agreement with Australia and the UK). Where it does fall down though is for elective surgery i.e. hip/knee replacements etc. For those, the waiting lists can be long. If however you have a car accident or need important surgery etc (generally) you’re guaranteed fast excellent service.
There seems to be a growing number of US citizens who haven’t got and can’t afford health insurance coming to NZ for surgery. I was watching a doco on tv last week that followed a young lady from the States who came here for a hip replacement. Without insurance the cost of surgery would have left her bankrupt.
It would have cost her a minimum of US$80,000 at home whereas it cost her NZ$23,000 (approx NZ$18,000) to fly to NZ (with a friend), have the surgery, recover for a couple of weeks and fly home again.
It seems that some private hospitals here are actively targeting the US market. One of the reasons they were picking NZ over Mexico and the Philippines was the common language and similar culture.
Cheers
AndreaC : “But the medical fraternity is not silly and they know how to milk the population for all it can get.”
—
you are barking at the wrong tree.
Yes Ross I heard a story about an American going to NZ for surgery.
Gracie, you don’t think the medical fraternity is involved in the business of medicine? They are here. They are very keen on business. However, maybe you were making another point.
I had further thoughts on Michaels text/image. Though that is a little upset by Thodoris’s point. But not that much. I think now that he could have rescued his text quite easily by simply putting less emphasis on the background story or putting it a bit differently. Somewhat like this. Tell us his story is about A man who’s losing his wife to Cancer. He could say a little about their life together – the years they were married, how many kids etc. And then say they were just looking forward to an easy retirement in their condo after a lifetime of working and saving. And hten he could branch off into the rest of the tragedy and articulate that which would emphasise the tragedy of his losses.
Andrea, I have no problem differing with you. For me, there is no 1st world, or 2nd or 3rd when it comes to respecting human life and helping one another. If, as often is proferred on BURN, we are but ONE, then all beings must helped, NOW!, 3rd world included.
Yes, some people cannot get treatment in the States, but if I remember this is not the case of the woman in Mike’s essay. Even though she can’t afford it, she was treated. AMERICA can afford the medical costs?
No it can’t, if you add up the numbers. We are many trillion dollars in debt. California, the 5th econimy in the world (or around that number) is having its worse budget crisis, so that here too, the state is considered almost bankrupt. A lot of health care costs are covered exactly like this family does. By incurring more debts, by borrowing or simply not paying. Remember also that “America” is made of States, and then counties, and cities, with every one of these coping differently. It could well be that in another state, their cituation would have been better (or worse) handed. This is all I say. Let’s not once again go into “oh , I get it!” one liners.
My opinion isd that if americans voted in the numbers they do in Europe, that is at least 1/3rd of the electorate more, with also the plurality of views and parties this participation would unleash and awake, it would be all benefits for the kind of changes that are truly needed. There is absolutely no political leverage, to keep the dems and republicans honest. Definitely a Chomskian here! :-)))
Compare in France where the Greens (my party everywhere!), got 16 % in the last elections, and served notice to both the left and the right, that business is maybe not as usual always.
“This is all I say. Let’s not once again go into “oh , I get it!” one liners.”
Herve, I am not sure what you mean by that. Are you telling me I have to reply with at least one paragraph. Are you suggesting we should keep debating this point if i don’t agree?
All right. Just one more otherwise, i would have left it at that I think.
Erm well I don’t agree with you yet. America may be in debt but isn’t it still the richest country in the world? It is not nearly bankrupt. It can afford to be in debt (I heard this analysis discussed this way recently), to the extent that it has a great, enormous capacity to generate income. It can service its loans. The government that is. That is why the government has been able to take the country into this massive debt to help ease the duration of the economic downturn. I don’t know anything about california.
But anyway, what I wanted to say was that, if Australia can afford a public health system, then surely the states can. I learnt tonight that when Nixon was in power the country was on the verge of getting a public health system. Nixon had the agreement of all the important others concerned. But then each of them got into a crisis of their own sort and the arrangement came to nought. Apparently it was all but signed sealed and delivered, the bill that is. But hey i am no expert on the American system of doing anything so I may be way off the mark. I just think that if such a thing is possible for a lot of the rest of the world, its got to be possible for America and I don’t buy that line about the current debt. The reason you have got such a system as ours is because of business interests.
Andrea, Ok, I told you why I think US doesn’t fare as well with other developped nations on many public services.
There are plenty of public services, and plenty of health care delivered and reimbursed in the USA. I got treated twice this year, for free, AND without an insurance, which saved me hundreds of dollars (not only that, but in SF, I can file for coverage directly with the city, if I have a low income, monthlies are 50$ maximum, for many less).
One-liner quote: If one wants to fix this mess we are in, we have to get down to the nitty-gritty, as they say, the devil is in the detail. Just to say again “it’s a scandal” or “I don’t buy that!” does not fix anything. If it did, we’d know it by now! :-)
I laughed when I read this, as you’ve discovered what us cat lovers have known for a long time: you do not choose or own cats, they choose and own you.
There are so many comments on this one that I suppose it is pointless for me to add another, but I will. I have finished many projects, including a couple of books, but I have a whole lot more unfinished projects… including a whole series of cats books.
Damn, damn, damn, damn!
If I could but get them into the market, they could make me rich and then I would have the time to finish my other projects, none of which is likely to bring economic profits. But the cats could. And they would not feel exploited.
I should have added that this picture makes me feel all kinds of affection for this cat. A black cat was once born into my hands and when that cat disappeared eight years later, I entered a prolonged state of deep grief; not light grief. I did not begin to break out of it until 10 weeks later, when I rescued another black cat from the euthanasia that awaited him at the pound. Eight and half years later, if I am home, not traveling, that cat is almost always with me.
The above story makes up one of my cat books. I’ve got to get the damn thing done. I have submitted it to one place, where it brought me praises in the rejection letter, but I don’t know where to take it next.
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