surf’s up….


all anybody ever talks about down here in the Outer Banks of North Carolina is the weather… wind and the direction thereof is on everyone's mind and it is cause and effect of  the changing patterns affecting fishermen and surfers who make up most of the population..and, oh yes, there are a few photographers …and all they talk about is the weather too…

yesterday afternoon was summer warm and i had a good swim (with a stranger's dog above) right at the perfect hour for shark shore feeding.. well, there has been only one fatal shark attack here in the last 6 years, so i enjoyed the hour….anyway, today is colder and gray….but, i will swim again right after i do this post….we all know a swim in the surf seems to heal the body and soul….a natural "massage" for our bodies  and the salt water, from whence we came, seems to balance us both mentally and physically….

in my experience and friendship with so many photographers, "balance" does always seem to be the number one  problem for most….either too much work or not enough work or too much of one kind of picture and not enough of an other kind of picture seem to plague many…we have talked before about the  personal life/professional life conundrum, but i am writing now about the delicate balance within the world  of actual picture taking itself…i am assuming in this conversation that everyone's personal life is just fine!!!

Gayle Tiller (below) is a local photographer , who happens to be a single mom, and has raised her three daughters alone now for the last 9 years…she mostly photographs families right here on this beach where i have photographed her as part of my family project (weekly postings now under "work in progress")….

Gayle spends lots of time with her daughters and the locals say they rarely see one without the other during the summer months..she says "i love just hanging out with the girls…they are my favorite people to be with and we are all really good friends"…so, Gayle has her personal life worked out and she totally enjoys doing her beach portraits….she does not want for more…

i am curious about most of you and your "balance sheet"…do you photograph mostly the things you love or do you have obligatory shooting to do???  which way does the wind blow?   

ok, i am off for a swim…camera along with me of course….i never know what i will run into along these shark infested shores…


630 Responses to “surf’s up….”

  • David

    And what about your “women” book? Do you still work on??
    you are good writer, I suppose, because I am not good in enlish, You know…

  • MARCIN….

    you may know that i have written a novella which is the fictional text for my “woman book” titled You Made Me Leave….this will be my first attempt at fiction writing and the photographs (portraits) will be intended as “mystery”…this book is on “hold” until i finish my family work, although i do work on it all the time…but, i decided for many reasons to do Off For A Family Drive first…and the family book could take me two years to do..i am not sure and i will not know for several months….

    there is some possibility that i could publish the portrait book simultaneous, but there just may not be enough “time in the day” to do that…again, part of the “balance equation” for me personally…

    thanks for asking Marcin…..

    cheers, david

  • I photograph what’s around me, which has its good and bad points, as almost everything does. I dont get a lot of people shots; unlike photogs in the city, I dont have an always convenient crowd to disappear into when I fire the camera, but on the whole, it’s not such a bad place, as places go.

  • “…everyone talks about the weather, but no one does anything about it…” attributed to Mark Twain.

  • DAH

    I love that the sneak peeks are starting to come to the surface. The Colorado snaps are great. I needed a creative boost today!

    Are you mostly/only shooting film for Off For A Family Drive?

    I think the key aspect missing from your balance question is whether these photos “pay the bills”. If not… I take snaps from a camera that only leaves my shoulder to be place bedside, till morn. There aren’t too many rules, from the “street”… sans the airport… of course.

    Happy swimmin’!

  • David

    Yes I remember, text is finished. I just thought you always shooting pretty women and may be when you are shooting now you are still thinking about this book, or working on.
    This story never end.. is’nt it?.. ha ha…

    I will buy all of your books I can get soon. I have only ‘divided soul’ now.
    but “You Made Me Leave” I want as a gift. When you publish it, I would like signed one from you. Special book from special guy.
    And I will send my book to you, if i will have one :)
    what you think? First one for your mother like you always do (I hope She is very good health), and second for me… or 100th…


  • I posted this on the other thread here it is again:

    I took these a few hours ago, I just felt like sharing:

  • Karim

    Fasion photography it is not my strong point. I am not expert at all, but I think your pictures are good.

  • Ok. Morpheus is calling me.
    I want get up early tomorrow.
    Kepp going my friends, keep going…


  • KARIM…

    nice….by the way, do you prefer Ryan or Karim??


    100% medium format film…both color and b&w for the “family drive” work

    cheers, david

  • Firstly… Cheers guys! (Ana, Patricia, David, Ari, Anton Good to be back)

    yes ANA! Perhpas by Perps next year SOMETHING may have sunk in! (I really hope so!)

    DAVID. Yes, will be in touch… Loved family analogy btw. Oh, and Matt “always being out there”, you mean like that weired feeling when you are being watched? Is that Matt…!? ;)

    (Hope your´re doing well Mat “The Butcher”)

    Hey ANTON, Jess is fine thanks! And far better at Spanish than me!!! (grrrr)

    ARI. Yes you are right about some music, it was sort of always a plan, but never got around to it, these recent projects have been produced on the fly so time and resorces have been a little limited. I´m also unsure as to how to deal with copyright issues for music. I guess some royality free music is the obvious choice.

    BOB I realized i missed the premier of Bones!! I have been looking forward to seeing it for a long time. Do you have a link? Or can wait until the DDR links go up I guess…

    Katharina. Couldn´t belive it when I read it has almost been a year since BKK!! My god things have gone fast. Scarey!!

    As for the post question… A little difficult to answer really as this year has been rather unique. But the reason for doing this extended travel and multiple projects was to get in touch with stories and work that I am passionate about and push in these areas.

    Before leaving in April most of my work was “obligatory shooting” It was rare that I would get a shoot that I REALLY enjoyed or was passionate about, mostly day-to-day stuff you know. Please know i´m not knocking that, it is absolutely necessary and i´m grateful to be able to do this at all, but i felt I was getting bogged down and that if I was ever going to work in areas that interest me more, now was the time to break away and do it! So made the jump…

    Good idea, bad idea I dunno, There have been sacrifices with shooting multiple short projects, but it has been a great experience and I am glad to have extended my portfolio. I just hope that this proves useful in the next year.

    So I guess in a nutshell it would be wonderful to work professionaly only shooting the things I love, but this is a real privilage. A happy balance is the key to life. So i´m more than happy for that!



    stop only appreciating ugly, dark, tormented, fucked up people ( just like me ),
    look at Karim’s fucking photos as Real people…
    take the “fashion” restriction out of your dark clouded fucking head…

    …. ohhh ,
    you know i love you… Marcin

    ………………………………….”balance sheet”…do you photograph mostly the things you love or do you have obligatory shooting to do???…………………….

    wtf…. “obligatory” means…?
    not in my dictionary… sorry…
    allright now….!!!!!… to tell the truth, i guess all of us in this fucking life we have compromised
    at least once or twice…
    but then again, that might only happened to me…


    … love you marcin.. playing with you..

  • David
    Online I prefer Karim… I think¿
    On topic… I shoot for a portrait studio everyday with the total opposite creative flavor that I love… I think it helps to show what I don’t want to be in a few years. I’ll post examples… When I was hired I thought I could bring my style too. BIG MISTAKE l!! I’ve given up on them and try to move in a seperate direction more each day.

    Witaj… Please judge me on any basis you see fit. Thank you for looking.

    Sorry guys totally off-topic but have you tried slydial? Call anyones cell voicemail directly!!

  • marvin what do you think about recording your voice as you caption your photos?

  • James

    One year since BKK (hard to believe!) , and three Matt’s to contend with in that group, it’s easy to get us mixed up. There is only one “Butcher” and he’s kickin around Tasmania. Always good for a laugh and a beer he was.

    Good to see how busy you’ve been this past year. Best to you!

  • reposted from “Polls” thread…


    So glad my response to the workshop slideshow spoke to you. It certainly touched me deeply. I am not the same person or photographer from having seen/experienced it…and the wonderful folks who created it, Mike Courvoisier included!

    NOW FRIENDS, please help me out with honest feedback about the text I’ve added to my self portrait/daily life project! Be brutal. If it doesn’t work, tell me. But please say something!

    I’ve just added more to the introductory text so, even if you’ve already read it, please go back and read it again.

    BTW there will be more text to come,but I need to know if I’m on the right track here or if another approach would be better. Writing comes easily to me so the whole thing can be scrapped and begun again if need be. But I need your feedback.

    Thanks so much in advance!!!


  • Ah shit! my bad Matt (Holloway) I was confused as “The Butcher” posted just one or two before davids responce… nice to hear from you though! What you working on these days?


  • Patricia,

    The text is very enlightening; I think you are on the right track. I understand more now.

    Love, light, color and mood,


  • To answer David’s question, I feel very fortunate to be in a position to take whatever photos I want. I do the occasional commission, but generally speaking they are what I’d want to be photographing anyway.

    The only job I almost died doing was last March. I took 3 days of location shots here in Detroit for an Oscar award-winning Los Angeles documentary film producer. The pay was low, the pressure EXTREMELY stressful, and the work uncreative as hell. But I learned a lot, mainly not to accept such a job again! The assistant producer I dealt with was very nice, but she was caught between naive, perfectionistic me and her deadline-obsessed boss. They’d predicted the job would take about 5 hours, and it probably would have for a photographer experienced in taking location shots, but for me? 30 hours in the field & on the computer! But, hey, my name will be in the credits for what they’re expecting to be a blockbuster documentary. Check out


  • DAVID,

    I don’t love everything I photograph but I love to photograph everything that surrounds me.
    I don’t have the duties of a professional photographer (yet!), but I believe that even if I am obliged to photograph certain subjects I don’t like I can challenge myself to make it well and enjoy the results later.

    Enjoy your swimming! Hope to find a way to be in one of your next workshops. The problem is the schedule on my regular work…


    Yes, I believe the royalty free is the option.
    Have a look at the netlabel named Birdsong, from Israel ( They have some interesting artists and songs on their catalog and they are under the Creative Commons license. I’m sure you will find lots of material to work with.


    I got it, and I agree with you. Your eyes are the most important weapons to be used and photography is the best and healthiest “drug” to be addicted to and we want always to go heavier on it… :-))


  • Speaking of Shark shore feedings..when I was in college I was dating a windsurfer, and we left NYC very very early one morning to be on the beach in Montauk before the sunrise. As he was setting up his stuff, I went for a walk to the other end of the the sun was rising, I ran into the ocean with abandon and swam out as far as I could. The water tasted very odd, but the moment was too good to care, and then suddenly I was caught in a whirlpool and the more I tried to get out, the more I was pulled down..I really thought I was going to die, getting weaker and feeling helpless, gulping this disgusting water. I prayed, I surrendered, went limp and it was exactly the right move, the whirlpool rejected me and swirled me out.

    As I was swimming back to shore, I saw an old man frantically waving to me..finally I could hear his shouts, and when I was on shore he told me that I was in ‘dead man’s pit’…no kidding..after awhile I asked why the water tasted as it did, he said he was shocked I didn’t notice the color, it was blood, the water was heavily bated for a shark hunt that it seems that my number could have been up on a couple of counts that day..but thankfully, that wasn’t in the cards.

    DAH, be safe out there, and have a swim for us..

    more on topic later..



    I found your text truly captivating and extremely thought provoking, powerful in it’s ‘plain talking honesty’. The way you kept your text as personal as your images are, makes the whole project all the more touching.

    You have inspired me Patricia, thank you.


  • Still struggling to find the time to make pictures of “meaningful things”. I spend most of my weeks shooting real estate to pay the bills and occasional weekends shooting for local papers. But at some point I have to spend time with my fiancé, no?
    So I pick and choose, and there are moments where I drop it all in the office and sit and read or watch tv and stop trying to figure how to fit it all in.
    Any meaningful pictures are done on my own dime and during my time off. Sustained effort on this part can yield exhaustion and/or neglect of my better half.
    I think I just need to get better at finding work that pays more, so I have more time to shoot for myself. Working too hard for not enough scratch is tiring and frustrating.

  • LEE & SAM

    Thank you both for taking the time to check out my gallery. Your feedback is most helpful.


    Again, I’m asking for feedback on the text I’ve added to my self portrait/daily life project. The link is


  • DAVID,

    i just got home tonight to many changes i see … i really do hope you will look me up if you are up this way and of course if there is anything i can do to help with logistics, etc., i would be honored. You have friends in Seattle and surrounds … i’d love to meet Katia too, i think i may have already met some of her kids :))

    “my take,” yes well, i did get a chuckle out of that.


  • BOB,

    I do understand, although it comes slowly at times, thanks for response … :))


  • It took well over an hour for the Loft Workshop 2 movie to download on my piggy-backed sureptitious wireless connection, but yes, when I finally got to see the slide show (using Firefox), it was worth the wait. Quite stunning work, as others have mentioned before me, but I was particularly bowled over by the incredibly layered and textured dream images of Kyunghee Lee’s, which capture for me the essence of the New York experience as few others have.

  • &LayoutToUDavid and All…..

    I am hoping to throw myself out here for some critique, advice, input…all of the above! I am posting links here to the two perhaps most significant or otherwise “complete” projects I have produced in the last few months.

    The Powwow project was something I had high hopes for..and perhaps fell short. I am not sure it is personal enough.
    Further more I was a bit loose in my approach and might have missed the “story” of the ceremonial all together during those two days and nights. I felt a bit “lost” and unable to truly connect with many of my subjects. Perhaps a product of the nature of this Ceremony/Event/Culture, or just my approach??

    These two selections are broken up into Night and Day…

    Here is the second portfolio…

    The next project was shot in DC over the course of a week as I zipped around between appointments. I feel this essay, even though it was less premeditated and easier to shoot, seems more complete. I was awed by the architecture, lighting, motion and sense of purpose that surrounded the “Metro”…and thus I was compelled to shoot as i also “experinced” it.

    Again..Maybe this is only intriguing to me b/c I live amongst ranch lands and pickup trucks, or is this the beginning of a potentially strong visual story of interest??

    I would greatly appreciate any feedback…The good, the bad and the Ugly! Thank you….Cheers, Jeremy

  • Karim

    Yes, show some examples you are talking about.
    You work for portrait studio, so you know that your portraits are good. I was thinking you learn in some photo school.
    Panos is right. I like unexpected little dark pictures. But I don’t do unexpected pictures myself, so I can’t be any judge. I like many kind of photography and I don’t think if pictures are not dark it’s mean i dont like it. I think you hide some other photography.
    But for me pictures you show are just good.

    what you mean “recording your voice as you caption your photos?” ??


    I really mean if you will be ready print some little book I wish to buy one. So keep working and don’t forget print one for me.


  • Photographers do always seem to attract beautiful women and David is no exception. Has anyone else been to Perpignan?! There are all these famous photojournalists around with women in tow and one wonders if these are their assistants or are they photographers themselves. . . where did they all come from?!


    Its interesting you felt so disconnected from the people of the First Nations… Them being Indigenous to America and you living ‘amongst ranch lands and pickup trucks’ gives me a few clues as to why you would feel that way…

    It does show in the images as well, sorry but its often the way with people in Australia with Aboriginal people too. In fact I know how closely connected the First Nations are to Aboriginal people and I know what people just don’t get is that Ceremony is Culture and Religion and Family and Land and Life all wrapped into one.

    David Suzuki said

    “Aboriginal people are key because they have a different sense of where we belong and how we interact with nature”

    In lots of instances with loads of different cultures and situations I think you can get away with being a casual observer and just take nicely composed images, but with Indigenous people it HAS to be much more than that….

    If you have ever seen a ‘corroboree’ its not just like a religious or ceremonial event, its an experience that doesn’t really have a whole lot of logic attached to it, it really takes you places that you can’t see, you just have to feel and if you don’t feel then you haven’t learnt and if you haven’t learnt- well in some parts of Australia you could easily get eaten by a big old crocodile.

    Now this possibly sounds totally scrambled but I know that Aboriginal people just KNOW….Its very difficult to photograph Indigenous people because the response you get is totally a reflection of what is going on inside yourself, you can’t have any lingering fears that you may end up with a spear in the leg.

    In Australia there is this big lie that has been circulated ever since white invasion that if you take photographs of Aborigines that they will think that you are stealing their soul. What a load of crap.

    What that is about over here is the fact that if you don’t have evidence then you can say no wrong has been done, Australia was declared ‘Terra Nullis’ when Cook originally declared it a new part of the English Empire. This effectively put in place a series of events that have relegated Aboriginal people to non-citizenry of their own land.

    Now as you can imagine these kinds of things and thoughts just do not disappear over night and even though Australia might seem like this great bland untroubled country there has been a war going on here ever since the first English colonialists arrived.

    What I am trying to say that is that it is a similiar situation to the First Nations. I mean the Pilgrim Fathers just rocked up and took over, they thought that ownership of the land was everything. Indigenous people know that the land owns them.

    So there is a huge gulf between the First Peoples and the rest of us really and to be able to photograph people effectively (any people) I think you have to be able to have some sort comprehension of the kinds of feelings people have. Imagine if you had a lovely little life going, enough food and water and shelter and some beautiful First Nation girls to hang out with and discuss the meaning of life and then suddenly along came- in America’s case a whole bunch of uptight, strung out religious nuts and in Australia’s case a whole bunch of dirty, ignorant criminals and tried to tell you what to do and then proceeded to murder your family, rape your women and destroy the land you cherished. And then in Australia just to make the genocide almost complete they took the children away (often from Aboriginal mothers who were raped by white men)

    I think that all of the guilt of this is pretty easy to see on the faces of many white Australians and I am sure there is a bit of that in Americans as well. Perhaps not so evident because well you guys had slavery as well…

    But you can see what I am getting at?

    Its loads about trust and that kind of works with everything really…

    That said I think you really nailed it with one photo, the one in the night where you have a blurred figure in the foreground (in pinkish outfit) and you can see one of the elders in the background through the movement of the younger fulla…

    Anyway lecture over but I hope that helps….


  • hmm..

    when i started photography it was because i wanted to photograph all the time..
    i was lucky in the respect that thats what i did really.. the lecturing work i have now is the first ‘job’ i have had, apart from waiting tables and that stuff when alot younger / university.

    the balance was never easy – i never had any money.. i would ALWAYS shoot something which i wanted to shoot for myself.. music.. whatever.. i would suppliment this with food photos, and commercial work which cropped up.. once or twice a year a very good job would crop up..

    i do not know if it is easy to start in this kind of business now.. when i began there was only the expectation of digital arriving.. we still used film, even though this was only the late 90’s.. now days graphic designers, marketing people.. they all take their own shots.. sometimes moonlighting with the photo work passing over their desks because today there is no need to spend time at the lab.. no need to have a fine knowledge of film types.. and no need for the post office..

    the balance for me has always been fine.. although an ex girlfriend or two would disagree..
    i have never needed lots of money.. i’ve been happy to eat rubbish in small amounts.. live a little rougher for the pleasure of the work i wanted to get.

    when i began i thought to be a photographer mean’t being able to photograph ANYTHING you were asked to do.. glass products.. fashion.. reportage.. and i’m really glad, since with ever job my technical and theoretical knowledge was pushed.. sayi9ng YES to work even though i would have to learn a new technique did me wonders..

    teaching right now is a blessing.. it’s not full time.. it’s well paid though.. and so i have replaced the food shoots and occassional commercial work in this way.. leaving me to shoot what i want to shoot.. again.. i seem to have always been a little lucky, although friends have told me luck has nothing to do with it – and hard work does.

    there is still a little part of me that feels a ‘photographer’ needs to be able to light and photograph everything.. needs to know darkroom practice as well as digital.. and so the next goal, which i am well underway in challangeing, is to challange this biggoted part in myself and open up fully to the flickr generation and the world of type specific photographers who may not know what a contact sheet is.

    because whatever their balance between money work and shooting what they like, it is the end product which counts.. and there are a great number of so-called photographers who have seen their business sunk by higher quality amateur work.. quite right too.

    and so these days i see a photographer more as somebody who does their own work, for themselves.. and less as someone who pays their rent purely from photography.
    in fact – i hope i can pay my rent off of teaching photography from now on.. useing that income to persue personal projects to their completion..

    i’m really excited about the grant which hillary linked in the last post.. one humble dream is that grants like this will enable me to keep the balance acceptable for my son.. now the balance is not just about me living rough anymore i want to ensure that my photography does not suffer.. because i do not love it any less.

  • by the way..
    i was sure the title of this post would be concerning CHRIS BICKFORD and his excellent surf pictures.. latest post in his in-progress room.. he’s on the EPF page on DAH’s mainsite.

    badass stuff..

  • Hi David

    This is first time that I post a comment even if I’ve been reading this journal since 2007. Incredible topics lasts months, cheers.

    Good swimming,

  • Where do I begin?

    My wife and I were talking last night after she had had a meal with some girlfriends to help one of them deal with a separation. There are two children involved. Same ages as our youngsters. Both people in question are behaving rather badly. It’s all to do with money. Uck!

    Anyway, it made me feel quite good about myself and about my marriage. Claire and I have had our difficulties. Still do. But we have adapted our lives to deal with children and their care, career and relationships. Mostly this has meant my not having much of a career for the last 5 1/2 years. This has been very difficult for me from time to time. But we refused to take on a nanny in New York as we would not be able to provide health insurance or paid vacation and so I decided to take on the role of stay at home dad.
    Being a freelance is precarious at the best of times. Claire worked for the feds and had good benefits and so the answer was obvious to me.

    After some tough months of long, long days in which there are no breaks, no time for dad to pause and just be in my own head for a few minutes between nappies (diapers), food, mess, fights, listening to mums in the playground compare c-section horror stories and wondering when I might next enjoy the company of men, I realised that I could adapt my photographic life to this new role. It was an extraordinary opportunity to develop as a photographer, husband and father.

    But that time has now passed. It’s time for me to get back to work. I want and need my photographic career again. But it’s so hard! I’m a fine assignment photographer. I have copious experience on so many fronts but I’m up against young hot shots with few responsibilities and huge talent. They also come a lot cheaper than I do. And often times they have better gear. What’s an ex stay at home dad to do?

    My biggest problem is digging up the courage to cold call people. I hate it. Substantially.

    But I’ll find a way.

    The other issue is finding time to spend with friends and colleagues on and offline, to read good fiction, to cuddle with her good self, to learn new techniques for multimedia, to answer the call to play cars or lego, fix bikes, the list goes on.

    I’m a dad, husband and photographer in equal measure but dividing time equally between those roles is oh so difficult.

    Thanks for causing me a few moments to ponder on this subject today.

    Chris, that’s a most sumptuous surfing shot. It beckons.

    Here’s one from the other day, my youngest, Connor, now four and fast.

    Perhaps I should be shooting for parenting and family magazines. Can anyone suggest a few for me?

    See ya.

  • WOW!!!!! Chris is obviously NOT up there on the beach with all the other photogs & their 4-foot lenses hooked up to tripods…he is OUT THERE among ’em! Magnificent captures, especially the one David B highlighted. I am in total AWE!


  • “i am curious about most of you and your “balance sheet”…do you photograph mostly the things you love or do you have obligatory shooting to do??? which way does the wind blow? ”

    The constant in my life is that wind blows in different directions too often. When I think I am on the right wave, then the wind changes and I end up soaked in the water. But one thing is for sure: I love photography and I will never give up trying to be what I need to be. I want to be a photographer with all it means. To this point, I have to confess that in the last months (too much time already!) I did not take the pictures I really love to do. Besides, I had to accept some works that don’t ‘move me inside’ but, of course, needed to get them as I needed the money. That does not mean that I did not enjoy doing it. I love photography so much than even taking those pictures I feel good, but I didn’t feel free. When I really feel free is when I get my camera and get immersed in one of those projects that move me inside.
    “Obligatory shooting” feels good too. It means that I have a place in this photo world and people want my work. “Freedom shooting” is just heaven in earth :-)

    I’m sure of it ;-) and it will be a pleasure to have a nice talk!

    It’s been a wonderful pleasure to have a look at your “daily life” project. It gave me a beautiful feeling, which is that through your photos, the composition and the tenderness, you are given us a little piece of your life. I felt like sharing your “walks”, your moments, your life…. And that is absolutely fantastic!!! And I felt that wamth without reading the text. So the photos speak for themselves. Congratulations and thank you!! I love it! And now…. I’m going to take some minutes to read your text. Will tell you my opinion after reading.

    Big kiss


  • PAUL

    Your photos of your boys have stayed with me. They truly show life through the eyes of a child. I’d encourage you to submit your work not only to parenting & family mags but to children’s mags as well. Googling such mags should get you started…..

    Best wishes!!

  • ERICA,

    Wow, I’m glad what could have happened that day wasn’t in the cards, really!

  • First off to Patricia,

    I just read your letter, and I have to agree with Sam. Waw! Yes, it really works for me : strong and personnal, yet very very touching. You feel it all. It could’ve been very dark or desperate, but I feel your strenght and your desire to LIVE LIFE ! To the fullest…

    I knew, reading this blog off&on for a year now, that you were quite a wonderfull giving strong and dedicated person, but I didn’t really understand it as I do now…
    Patricia, I just finished a very exhausting 3weeks work and am feeling exhausted (need a swim, like David…). Woke up feeling the blues, and your letter did the trick. Truely inspirationnal, thank you.
    I’m only sorry that I didn’t barge in on your swarming friends at Davids Workshop/fiesta but your smile was enough that time. Next time…


    I started taking pictures because of travels and bad memory and used to shoot for fun and play. Nowadays, those “shooting times” seem to disappear more and more. I’m in this new crazy city but cannot seem to find a way/reason to just “go out & play”… And the work takes too much time as it is: “obligatory work”. So hard to balance, as is life I guess.
    Does it get any better with time, this “balancing act”, or do you just hold on and manage the different winds ?


    Those whirlpools or under currents are well-known, especially along stretches of beaches, but I’m surprised that one has a name ?!
    Glad your brain “stopped fighting” to let your body react – I know strong under-currents swimming (not whirlpools). It’s scary, yes, but the only way out is to stop fighting then swim parrallel to the shore until you get out of the currents…
    But when you also have shark feeding frenzy at the same spot, you call yourself lucky! Glad you got out of the “dead man’s pit” to talk about it…


    All good for that pint next time.
    But is that why you got into photography?
    I guess the Maramures aren’t a paradise for girls?
    “Take me down to… where the grass is green & the girls are pretty”
    (this one for Panos ;)


    I too briefly chatted with you and Marina but I was glad I did. Too many people around you as well but you seemed as interesting and bright as you are on paper. true, you live in Canada ;)
    And I understand your need to get away more from the computer and this blog, LS and teaching, etc… I don’t know how you kept such a pace the past months! Damn, you seemed to be living here at one point, always writing long interesting dedicated positive posts that I enjoyed reading. But you’ll need to pop out once in a while… your point of views are important (as is the wit of Akaky) ot this blog/family.


    Great to meet you last in NYC at DAHs! Sure are a cowboy chick magnet bro! If I ever manage to haul my ass down to Austin, Texas, let’s have a few brews! And you’ll show me a rodeo (dreamed of being one as a kid in africa :)

    Kyunghee Lee,

    Thank you very much for our little talk at DAHs workshop. I know Davin and I were impressed an

    …NY ocean is too cold now. Wish I could get on a plane and just go surf then swim in warmer waters (sharks or no sharks)… I even love the name: “Outer Banks”… So yeah, as Erica said: have a swim for us all!

    ps1: After a few trips CAN-US, I finally got my visa to stay in the US for up to 3 years! Yeeee!
    ps2: for those drunks who forgot, amidst the many people “just saying Hi”, half of me is on left: (hope Patricia& Preston don’t mind)

    All the best to everyone,
    and “GO Vote, it’ll make you feel good”


    the essence is there in your text…but, just like pictures, i might suggest just tweaking a bit, moving a couple of sentences around, and mostly just coming up with a lead paragraph that is totally esoteric in nature that will lead us all into your most touching and poignant life story…

    i have your book as one of my top priorities…your book as “greatness” written all over it….

    as we get closer to publication time, you have a lot of friends here who can help with the text etc etc…please now come up with a strong title, if you have not done so already….also the layout will determine a lot in terms of how you want to do your text..there are many ways to go with this….

    just keep shooting now…with fervor…you are not finished yet…you are close…..when you think you just cannot take another picture, take another picture….


    i am photographing today and tomorrow almost all the time …perhaps i will have some time on monday or tuesday to have a look….i do not want to rush it….i am sure the others will have their say, but i do want to see what you are doing as well…


    i cannot speak for everyone who was in Perpignan, but the “beautiful women” (your description) who were in my little group are beautiful in EVERY WAY, that is: very TALENTED photographers…our Lassal and Laura El Tantawy and Audrey and Ana and Andrea and Aga and Simona and Ulla and also photo editors like Anna Savini and Daria Bonera..i probably forgot someone, heaven forbid!!….in any case, all of the men and women in Perpignan are photographers or editors…surely a pretty attractive bunch and a pretty dedicated bunch as well…

    cheers, david

  • last year i shot 4 weddings to make some sorely needed $ – god, it drained me. that’s really the difference for me – paid work nearly always drains and shooting what i love always ALWAYS energizes. so no more weddings for me. i do volunteer as a photographer for the ‘Real Change’ newspaper here in Seattle. They (we) advocate for the homeless and other social justice issues. i might not be crazy about a particular assignment (say, a posed portrait) but just knowing that i’m contributing to a publication that helps people who really need help is worth it to me. and i only shoot maybe one photo a week for them.

    tom hyde–

    are you in seattle now? yes! let’s meet! :))
    and you’ve met some of my kids? who? when? tell me more!! :))
    smiling Big..

  • Oh, PATRICIA… just read your text twice. I’m alone at home surronded by an incredible peace while I hear the heavy rain through the window and loud thunders that seem to break the sky. I love storms. And then… your text. After reading it I’m speechless. Just have the feeling that your words contain the truth of all our weaknesses and that it is an example of courage and will.

    Never, never give up. And keep on doing your project. It is fantastic.




    I like your monochrome material but it’s your colour work that moves me. It’s sumptuous plus plus. So deep and syrupy that I just want to climb in and feast on those hues. Visually voluptuous.


    Thank you. I’ll keep you posted.

  • Hi Patricia,

    After reading the text that accompanies your photos, I have a few impressions. I think you should eliminate the first paragraph and open with, “It all started with a fall…” I didn’t feel the first paragraph connected with the rest of the text. The second has powerful imagery that the reader can feel. Within the second graf, though, you mention five people: yourself, a friend, your internist, a neurologist and Kubler-Ross. You might consider cutting the friend and the internist and get straight to the neurologist because it gets a bit confusing with all the different characters without adding much to the overall message. The Kubler-Ross reference adds also a degree of tragic foreshadowing that adds to a sense of triumph when the reader finishes the text. And I enjoy how you’ve provided examples of each of the stages.

    In the third paragraph, your first two sentences are great, but I think you could give the third more power. The phrase, “I mean how could…” weakens the details you list. Instead of listing all the sports you once enjoyed, maybe you could give one or two examples of the feeling of athletic accomplishment that you had realized you wouldn’t be able to experience again. The sweat and glorious pain of running, the way swimming makes your lungs conquer an element they’re not meant for..

    In #4, I love the intimate detail of “The fact that he seemed unable to get past denial irritated the hell out of me.” That verbal peek into your life parallels the visuals of your photography.

    The crow looking for a place to land is a great metaphor. Do you have a photo of one? It might be interesting to echo some of the details you’ve written in your pictures. Within the same graf, “I did my best to scare it off by staying super busy, but every so often it would catch me unawares,” I think you should cut did my best, super busy, every so often, and catch me unawares. Those are all cliches that dilute your meaning. There’s another way to phrase it, I’m sure.

    The acceptance graf could perhaps use the original opening lines, “Photographing my life, the ordinary everydayness of it, has become my spiritual practice. As I write this I hear my southern mom’s voice in my head saying, ”Don’t be so hifalutin, Miss Smarty Pants!” But it’s true.” Try it, might work…

    The next two grafs read as if you’re rushing to finish writing. Not bad, but I know you can do much better. And your final metaphor (this might be nitpicking, but a thought nonetheless), rainbows don’t ALWAYS appear after harsh downpours, they need sunshine! ;) And you’ve certainly provided many people with that brightness and light. I cherish our brief meeting at David’s and I look forward to seeing you again.

    Warm regards,

    Andrew Sullivan

  • Hello All:

    Andrew Sullivan’s Harlem Jazz and Rafal’s Family Ties are featured on The 37 Frame.

    Thanks for participating!

  • DAH – i’ll try not to be insulted that my name was not mentioned in the beautiful women in perpignan….. ha ha! guess who will NOT be stocking your fridge with beer at LOOK next year!! xo

    PATRICIA – your text is almost there. very personal and intimate. i would maybe work on the political part – not sure it flows… as i said at the end of the last post…. YOU LIVE OUT LOUD my friend!

    KARIM – i think your portrait work is very strong – would like to see more…

    JEREMY – NOT because I live there… but i liked your DC gallery work. thanks for sharing.

    AMERICA A – welcome to the blog!

    PAUL – you have a great eye and very talented. maybe you should shoot for parenting magazines…. nice work!

  • WHEW! I am overcome with gratitude to all who have offered me their responses and suggestions regarding my text. Each person has given something to think about. Already today I’ve heard from Ana, Tanguy, DAH and Andrew S.


    You both help me see that it is working, that I’m on the right track. That’s just what I needed to know. My main fear was that I would be encouraging a pity-party, but your responses set my mind at ease about that. Thank you so much.


    You fill me with even MORE enthusiasm for the project!!! It’s because of your ongoing support and encouragement that I’ve been able to maintain a high level of interest in this, the longest-running project I’ve ever undertaken. Sure there have been ebbs and flows, but I’ve never given up on it. And I trust I’ll stay with it until it’s done.

    I’m relieved to hear that the text seems to “capture the essence.” We can fine tune it later, but I’ll just keep writing for now.

    And yes, David, I just keep taking more pics day by day. Today’s is of a wax life mask that was molded on my face back in the 90s. It’s always spooked the hell out of Ed because it looks so much like me, albeit a dead me. I photographed it at a similar angle to the first shot in my project. Rather chilling, to my eye anyway.

    Regarding a title, I’d come up with “Falling Into Place.” That was why I started the text by describing my first fall. I’d see the possibility of the cover photo being the one I took from the floor after a fall.


    Your suggestions are priceless!!! I’m going to try them out right now. Thank you SO MUCH for taking the time to go through it line by line and share your ideas in such a clear way. You are a terrific editor!

    in gratitude

  • Patricia, my friend!

    There is no problem with your text, but I see it as totally separated from the photographic work itself. As you can see, save David, everyone has replied in terms how it affected them, but not in relation to your picture style and essay stance.

    I would see it more as epilogue than prologue. Give your photographic work a chance to impress as much on its own. Lest it all falls in the trap of descriptiveness, which your images are certainly not about.

    This said, there is something your situation is begging for, when writing about it. Do you see your plight (or blessing in disguise) as a hazard fallen upon you, or do you get a very personal sense of why it happened to you? If you sense you “own” your MS (as everyone owns his/her karma, meaning it is no one else’s), do you think that could be the most important thing to convey, with, but also over the 5 stages, and elements of your daily life?

    Thinking aloud…

    “Famous” photographers (men) and women…

    …DAH Giovanni?


  • GINA

    Thanks so much for your feedback as well! Yes, I’ll go back and see if I can better express my political activist years. They were essential to the process but need to be presented in an understated, understandable way.



    YES!!! Your idea about the text being Epilogue instead of Prologue feels JUST RIGHT to me. I’d worried about giving too much descriptive material at the start. I really DO want the images to tell their own story. My description of/reflections on my life path should be secondary to the REAL work here, and that is the photos.

    Regarding your bringing up the idea of karma and my feelings about how this diagnosis has helped me find my proper place this time around, that is what I’d hoped the title would connote. I feel certain that I have fallen into my place in the world with the help of my disability. I would not be who I have become without it. A curse? Hardly! More like a gift. I’ll try to get that across in the text. Thank you so much for bringing it up.


  • “When you think you just cannot take another picture, take another picture…” That’s one to remember.

  • Patricia

    I agree, epilogue’s the way to go. Will study the text again. I almost always prefer text at the end of a book. Yet it never occurred to me to put the text a the end of my own project. I’m learning a lot this evening.


    Thank you.

  • Katia,

    I live in bfe over on the Olympic Peninsula … southern peninsula anyway, sort of centrally located in the middle of nowhere with the elk and bald eagles in my yard and the Avon Lady dressed in camo who comes calling on the ATV with her bow or rifle sidesaddle if its the season for such fashion accessories. I’m about 2 hours from seattle, which isn’t far as western distances go. I’ve been spending a little more time in Seattle this year, photographing Critical Mass, and the folks who work at the Elephant Car Wash near the Seattle Center for assignments … and just walking the streets too.

    Pretty sure i’ve seen inde and jynxxy and probably a few others hanging out at the Westlake Park … and i’ve talked to a few kids there, no one else does but i’m slow and careful ’cause most of the folks that do talk to them want to exploit them in some way and they certainly know it, how could they not, and i can see it in their eyes, pain and disdain, freedom and traps, some trying to turn it to their advantage … i have only taken one picture, one single frame, paying for it with genuine interest, suggestions, sympathy and care … and, of course, this is your gig, not mine :)) … i always want to ask, “do you know Katia” but hold it for the next time when my face is a bit more familiar perhaps, and not wanting to cause you any problems by my stumbling :)))

    I’ve been talking with a few people i know about your work and how it needs to be shown to the greater community here. There was some interest from one editor … but then a staff change, so, not sure … but we should definitely talk before I make more than a reference of “you really need to check this out” to folks so i don’t do anything i shouldn’t :))

    … And Katia, thanks for saying “hello in there” to so many people (John Prine reference) … simple random acts change time and history beyond our understanding …

    Next time I am in Seattle, would love to have a cup of coffee, or whatever, perhaps with David! :))



    Your work will have to sit with me for awhile before I can formulate a response. I think the pictures and words are inseparable, however. Perhaps they should be together throughout your book.

    Such bravery. Such experience. Such wisdom. Such humanity.

  • Paul … good one, and along the same lines …

    “You must do the thing you think you cannot do.”
    -Eleanor Roosevelt

  • Ahhh, Paul you were quoting David, missed that! Well, i’ve got David quotes up on my wall with Roosevelt and Mamet and many others …:)) There have been so many memorable ones here, from many people, enough to fill a book, just quotes, like sunbeams.

  • Lisa:

    Thank you for the insight..I can agree with so much of what you said…especially the bit about mutual trust …and my own comfort levels and the how that will ultimately project on my subjects as I work.

    When I lived and worked in South/Central America I felt very at ease with the culture and language, photographic opportunities followed. Likewise in Africa I lived/worked at a “village” level ..and as I read in your website “bio”; my photographs at that point were very much a by-product of my intimate experiences with individuals, their culture and the environment!

    So I ask this…perhaps I need to take more time with this subject, along with a better understanding. ..and can this level of understanding/comfort really be achived in a span of two days? I don’t know. I appreciate your input Lisa! Cheers!

    TO ALL: Here is the “second” Inter-Tribal didn’t post correctly last night.

    Also a few B&W images from the same weekend….

    DAH: Looking forward to it!! Cheers-Jeremy

  • Well, concerning PATRICIA’s photos and text as an epilogue, I have to say that, with no premeditation, I took a look to the pictures before. Then I wrote my impressions to the essay: it really told me the story without reading the text! And got involved in the feelings, emotions and daily life of her. Then, after that, I read the text that just added not the story (it was told by the pictures), it added her fight, her psychological states, her lovefor Life…. it just added.

    That’s my personal point of view, of course….

  • DAVID,

    “beautiful in EVERY WAY … very TALENTED photographers”

    the best piropo!! ;-) thank youuuuuuuuu!!



  • tom–

    you’ve met inde!! :)) he is one of my closest street sons and one of the most intriguing and complex boys out here. sadly, at 20, he’s become quite an alcoholic. i just spent 6 hours in the harborview emergency room with him. his right eye had a gash in it and he has no recollection of what happened to cause it. scary. i’m actually on my way to his squat right now. (him and about 15 others are under a bridge in georgetown). last week a woman gave me $200.00 to buy blankets for them so yesterday, me and 2 of the other kids went to goodwill and bought a truck load of big comforters and pots/pans/plates/utensils since they have started to cook there now. the kids have cleared out all the garbage and today we’ll lay tarps down and all the new bedding. then tonight a big cook-out – chicken, hotdogs, chili, smores, etc. and i’m hauling all my drums down there for a big drum jam. we’ll just be eating, drumming, singing and loving all weekend. i can’t wait!!

    sorry, didn’t mean to write an essay here! :)
    just thrilled you know my boy.
    jynnxy, yes, she’s a doll but not technically a street kid. she’s a ‘housie’, lives with her mom.

    yes! talk with them! they are amazing kids!
    to them, i am ‘mama dread’ (not because i invoke fear, hah, but because i have very long dreadlocks. ;) )if you ask if they know ‘katia’ only a few will say yes. if you ask if they know ‘mama dread’ – they will ALL say yes. :)))

    please tell me when next you’ll be in seattle. i’m very excited to meet you and introduce you around to the family. :)))


    i like very much “Falling into Place”…and Herve is right, that the text and the placement of the text in relation to the pictures must be wisely done…there are many ways to go, but mañana will work with where you are now…

    my feeling is this at this point in time: you have a terrific basic text..something to “hang on to”…so, for the moment, put it aside and just concentrate on more work…do not let the layout or the text take up too much of your thinking right now…yes yes both are equally important and will soon be MOST IMPORTANT, but just not NOW…..


    i am so so counting on you…you are a wise man….i will need to speak with you by phone soonest, but if i write one more word now, i will miss the light!!!

    back soonest amigo

    cheers, david

  • GINA….

    i so so totally forgot at the moment i was writing you were in Perpignan….i had you in my mind at Look3 and New is all kind of a blur as you may imagine….

    apologizing to women (and men) is one of my specialties…i am sorry!!!!

    hugs, david

  • one last thing before i leave…


    i’ve read your text and you’ve received some wonderful and detailed advise already so i will only say..

    it moved me.
    you’re Beauty-full. :)))

    a wonderful weekend to all – ciao! **

  • ALL

    Sorry… not trying to interrupt, just trying to catch up…


    I know going back a week on the blog is like digging up ancient history, but I am very curious about your take on The Family of Man… and it’s role in the history of photojournalism. Are you thinking about this book, in particular, as you are working on your family project? Could The Family of Man be the subject of a post some day?

    We are planning a Christmas break vacation… might take a road trip and I wonder what the outer banks are like in winter…


    I noticed the link to your wiki… wonder what your plans are for it, did I miss something? Do we have a wiki now? Right on!!


    Enjoy the Robert Frank book…. a fun game I like to play with it is to edit pictures against it… for instance:

    with picture #16 (yom kippur, east river)

    Right now I’m thinking about the narrative structure of the book… three acts and the denouement of the last picture, the photographer alienated, in the end, from his own family… his move to film so perfect…

    Which reminds me, the Anthology Film Archive is showing a bunch of Robert Frank films next month, including a rare screening of C********r Blues… which I’ve never seen.

    Next fall, I think, is the Frank Americans blockbuster at the Met… I’ve never seen all the photographs together… also DC Jan-April, SF May-August…

    Also going back a week or longer… and reminded by the A. Soth links… regarding the subtle differences between medium and large format… I see three major differences (and all just my opinion…)

    First is space and the optical properties of the focal length of the lens. Normal for mf is around 80mm, for 45 is 210mm and 810 is 300mm. The relationship of foreground to background is a function of the focal length… the shorter the focal length, the “wider” the look, the more the background seems to “fall away” from the foreground… the longer the focal length, the more the space seems compressed… I see Soth’s (or Sander’s, etc.) subjects “in” their surroundings, and this is one (strictly technical) reason for that. Also, depth of field goes with focal length… Second is time: the world looks very different at 1/60th of a second compared to an exposure of several seconds. The world moves and breathes.. though camera immobility is not exclusively large format, it is (for the most part) enforced. Third is hyper-reality and smoothness of tones in a large negative, though this is probably not much of a factor when compared to digital… camera movements are a distant fourth…

    These are the sorts of things I’m thinking about as I try to get my own large format deal off the ground… not making the progress I would like, but I hope to be making 8×10 platinum prints by the end of the year… in the mean time I should get back to what I was doing, now I’m just slacking….

    Oh, and speaking of films…. tomorrow Andrzej Wajda himself is introducing Popiół i Diament and Katyń at Lincoln Center….

    tried to send you a link..
    but the server wasnt responding…
    check & see if i “made” it there at your maibox..

    i just seen ANDREW S’s work & also RAFAL’S…
    hope to be there soon…
    PETE M… great work…

    ALL , CHECK:


  • GINA , said;

    “…DAH – i’ll try not to be insulted that my name was not mentioned in the beautiful women in perpignan….. ha ha! guess who will NOT be stocking your fridge with beer at LOOK next year!! xo…”

    GINA ,
    please dont be insulted,
    coz , I FOUND YOU HOT….HOT …;-))))))))))))))

    … but, hey ,
    let my moderate my own comments…
    otherwise i’ll be kicked out of Freida’s cabin,
    once again…..

    ladies & gents… i overslept this morning…
    its noon…
    ( but HOW can i leave the bed with that hot beautiful female
    creature naked next to me ???????? …
    damn, i love that scent of a woman , early in the morning…
    i love how the piilow smells from her hair….i love….)

    peace y’all…

  • And peace to you, dear Panos. May your day prove to be as sweetly sensual as was your awakening…


  • mike

    I started a little wiki just to see if we could do the October project in a way where everyone can contribute all at once… the wiki style allows for writing and essays to go along with and anyone can write what they want. I don’t think however that everyone agreed on using it though…

    I will try and give you an example of pairing the audio with a picture on Monday when I get to the Office.

    Wanted to share another photo from yesterday

  • Mike

    !!!!! new pictures!!! I’ve been waiting for :)
    the secon one, great!

  • DAVID, 360-432-9439, here all weekend lost in the mist and the green and the wet of Sometimes a Great Notion, an absolute “must read,” or read again, before heading to the Northwest. Funny, i can put real names with all of Kesey’s characters … got me thinking …

    MIKE! ALL … Family of Man … funny, a birthday present yesterday from my wife along with other books ranging from a collectible 1970 Avant Garde Portraits of American People to Walker Evans to Gilden to Hamburger Eyes … she just picked what she found interesting and compelling without knowing much history or “what’s good” from the community bookstore where we have credit … and she did great!!! :))) And last night we watched City of Angels … i think she loves me ;-)

  • Was there ever any consensus on where to post/send pictures for October?

    I’m in on the wiki/blog/whatever-it-can-be site…I think there are some very interesting possibilities in that direction.

  • …someone, please post the WIKI link again?
    pretty please.. missed it

  • Accckk!!, the movie was City of God (not angels!), Cidade de Deus, which i just forgot since watching last night … slipping … I’m not sure you can call me Young Tom anymore David!


    Here are 11 new possible images for my “Falling Into Place” project. If you have time, please check them out. But there’s no rush. I so appreciate all the time you folks have given me yesterday and today. Hope I’m not becoming a pest…
    PASSWORD patricia


  • HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY, DEAR TOM!!!! It sounds like the start to a terrific year. And yes, your wife sounds like a wonderful companion. She obviously “gets it” ;~)


  • MAMA DREAD!, I will absolutely let you know when I am next in Seattle. We have wonderful friends with an open bedroom there in Ravenna so it’s easy to come and stay for a few days. I keep meaning to hook up with Charles Peterson too … he put in some nice unsolicited words for me with an editor and we have never met. I will miss the serendipity of this place.

    Katia, I would be honored to meet your friends! Contact you soon :))

  • And Patricia … thank you!!! :))) Someday I hope to drive to meet one of my favorite people i’ve never met but feel i know because she speaks with her heart in all her work so well … and because i want a signed copy in person!

  • Patricia, so happy you included #1 which i saw before … and you ARE #4, and i love #8. I don’t often comment because i don’t trust my viewpoint or rather, it’s just changing/evolving so much all the time but i’m starting to “get it,” and yes, my wife totally gets it already but as we all know, “women are smarter.” :)))


  • Patricia,
    #3 & #7 do it for me..

  • patricia
    I agree with panos on that Patricia. However I would also add #4

    it’s just a temporary wiki that can be moved to a real server if we are all in agreement to use the site.


  • DAH – forget me??? we stayed in the same hotel, you looked at my project, i gave you shit for going to be early the first night, etc,… APOLOGY ACCEPTED! xox

    ALL – just got back from dinner with Lassal, Tony and Hunter (the dog). they picked me up at my hotel and we went to dinner in lassal’s neighborhood. we had met briefly in perpignan and were able to talk a bit there – but tonight was special. we sat outside and had a lovely dinner and talked and talked and talked. and of course little hunter was cold, so Lassal took off her coat and put it on the ground for him to lay on. even though the restaurant supplied blankets for outside. she spoils that little guy (Tony too). they are both just lovely and were such wonderful german (and british) hosts. i still laugh that DAH thought Lassal was an old german man until he met her in tuscany. that she is not. such beautiful eyes and long dark hair. thanks to this blog family i did not spend my last night here in frankfurt alone. and look forward to seeing them every year!

  • What’s that WIKI SITE? I guess I missed the explanation somewhere in the comments….

  • PANOS – i want to live vicariously through you!!! DAMN!

    PATRICIA – i love #3 and #4!!! great additions to your project!!

  • GINA,

    Lovely dinner with Lassal :-)

    And you are right, thanks to this blog family we will have the chance to enjoy frienship and nice moments all over the world!!

    Great that your last night in Germany was so special. Safe travel back!!

  • “i still laugh that DAH thought Lassal was an old german man until he met her in tuscany.”

    Was the time when I was think that Lassal is man too. I don’t know why, and not as long as David.

    I think it is better for all men on the world that Lassal is not old german man only beautiful woman :)

  • Trying to stay on topic, I’m about to do another family shoot for the studio I work for, I’m going to do the standard stuff… but since no one else is here I’ll shoot a few in my style and post :-D

    Off Topic
    Here are the photos I shot yesterday




    PATRICA :))))))

    As you know, im a big big fan of this Book-in-the Making :)))))…it’s been a great honor and real pleasure to follow the journey and to see how each new edition grows and changes….I think i’ve been with you from the beginning on this journey….and it’s never a diminishment to see all those great and powerful images :))))…i think (correct me if I am wrong) that I have seen each new edition…so, i’ll just comment on the new pics….(as always, i love the old pics very much #1, 3(masterful!), 11, 12, 14, 16, 18 and the masterpiece #27)….from the previous update, I think the remarkable #10 (blue death bird) and #9 and #13 and #25 are ALL BRILLIANT EDITIONS…though i would ask you: where did you put the picture of your shadow of your reflections against Ed’s car (the shot of Ed driving)…i’ve always loved this picture, just as i love the shot of Ed in the swimming pool….

    and the NEW photos/editions, i like the picture of you holding the beetle shell and the picture of the bike…BUT, i want ANOTHER BIKE shot…something different…i dont know why, just maybe with bike in full frame, with you or your shadow, or whatever (arm like this one), someone, i need to see the whole bike, the way we see the whole scooter…just not like the old bike pics…i like #24 too and this is sad, and makes sence next to the masterful final image…

    and of course, the text is just wonderful…inspired and filled with both real measure of grief and also real (midwestern?) no-bullshit honesty and strenght…no complains, just the way it is Carver-esque….really cant wait to real the entire text of what you are writing my dear…just showed Marina the lastest version of your slideshow :)))))))….

    i’d love to run a marathan next to you, i might need some help getting past the 5k stage though (i run too, something i wanted to chat with you about in nyc) :))))

    god i love this project and cant wait to see what you do with it and when it gets into a book :))))))))


    and lastly, some of my favorite images that you’ve cut out:

    and although i PREFER the painting photo you’ve included in your slideshow, i also like this:

    and i like this bike

    i also like: and would (gently) encourage yu to think about these :))))


    (well, i love all the self-portrait nudes, but most are in b/w, and maybe b/w doesnt make sense with all the colors….)

    Well Patricia, i could go on ;))))….

    I know you got a great handle on this and an even better eye and Editor in David than me, but you have so much that is powerful, i would ask you this:

    your Day-in-the-life-of….as seen from your perspective….is it possible to include and shoot also how YOU HELP ED as well…like the picture with you two at the piano (that is not included in your edit but i found on your daily blog)….that’s part of yu too…

    anyway, i love this book and i think a great book will be 80 pics, 100 pics…i cant wait to see what you do and how it goes….im already standing in line to purchase! ;))))

    from love with marina too :)))


  • TOM H :)))))…no worries friend, im slow too, believe me ;)))))))….plus it doesnt help, when i leave some silly cryptic post ;0)))….

    JAMES C :))))…it’s ok, i had it at flickr, and then removed…i’ll put up again at drr when David gives the all go signal :))))

    TANGUY :)))..loved the brief chat :)))…and yea, all those people, like i was freakin out…i told David yesterday in an email, that i prefer a quiet, few people, long night drink/chat kind of thing…200 people is kinda crazy….Marina is the really bright one in the Black family believe me, …dont forget, come visit :))))))))))…you’ve got a place here when you need one amigo :)))))…

    MIKE :))))…a month and a half ago, i rented the 3 DVD version of the Complete Films of Robert Frank (all except Cocksucker Blues)…and i wrote a long, drunken, teary post after watching them …i dont remember which of David’s posts its under, but that man rules…broke my heart (all the films)…and im happy to see you are going to Wajda…just read the review of what’s showing in the Village voice…i miss NYC…and i love Wajda too :))))….and AS MUCH AS I LOVE AMERICANS, you really have to STORYLINE…for my money, one of the best books of photography in the last 25 years….as seminal as Americans is, for me, Storylines is the apotheosis of his artform…i would have loved to have seen the show at the Tate…and we’ll be there when the big thing comes to town :)))))))….

    ERICA: glad you we’ren’t shark bait..:))))))….



  • BOB

    I am speechless…and that’s really something for me! First of all, you have been a HUGE support to me from the start of this project. If I remember correctly, you wrote an enthusiastic comment about my first images before David had even seen them. And you’ve been with me edit-by-edit, always honest and often bringing attention to photos I hadn’t even included in any of the edits. I don’t know where you find them all, but I thank you for doing so. I’m so prolific that I forget what I have, and that’s the truth. You’ve really done some digging this time and I’m going to look more closely at your suggestions and ask David to do the same. I totally trust your artistic eye.

    Thank you for giving me and my work so much of your very precious time. Our friendship is a real treasure to me, my dear brother.


    When some time opens up in your busy life would you please read Bob’s most recent comments to me? I’d especially appreciate it if you would click on the links he’s posted. There are some images you’ve already seen but several that will be new to you. Thanks so much.

    love to you both


    I thank each of you wonderful people for checking out my most recent “possibles.” Your choices are so interesting to me. I swear, I just take the pics, throw out the total losers, try to choose the best of the keepers, but from then on I’m a bit clueless.

    What’s especially tough about doing a photo project based on your own life is trying to stand back and evaluate the images with any degree of objectivity. I’m so apt to remember the moment and confuse that with the success or lack of success of the photo itself. Thank god I have you folks & David to help me edit!!! Couldn’t be doing this without you…



    DAVID (dah) and ALL:

    first, david, great story on the single-mom :)))…terrific pic too, what a bunch of surfer beauties indeed…and Im with Marcin, cant wait to see that book (Women) someday too :))))…and this morning, i revisited the Insight-Magnum page…and love all the work…i particularly enjoyed putting your 2 family stories (Colorado and Va) together in my mind with Alex W’s brilliant story on the steeltowns in Ohio/Pa…both of you are approaching this project from opposite ends (he with a wide eye, scaling the communities and you with a tight-focus on individual families) that make up a very important and interesting cross-section of america…can’t wait to see more reporting from the road amigo :)))))

    ok, as to the question about work:

    this is a critical question that racer-runs both my and marina’s life. both of us balance essentially 2 types of work 1) idea-inspired and 2) environment-inspired. Both of us shoot friends and family alot, especially when it’s related to a project we’re working on, not to mention the heart of probably both of work involves memory and family, russia and the us, etc….

    for me, it’s always been a balance. I tend to walk alot, run, write alot and observe first, for long periods of time until a place or person or idea captivates me and then i try to shoot and see what happens and then words (i begin to write) and the images build. This has been how i’ve think about and organzie the 3 major projects that i’ve shot over the last few years (FACES series, INVISIBLE CITIES project (toronto, moscow, lisboa/albuferra) and Memories Brief as Photos (immigrant students))….


    often times something new happens:

    Last year’s David’s EPF series inspired me to try to do something different: shoot for only 2 weeks, 2 rolls of film, 1 group of people: the korean students (part of the Memories Brief series) and submit it as part of EPF (part of which was shown at Look3 with david’s EPF group).

    Same happened here with Bones. It began from a visit to NC to see my brother and dad and then an idea came to me about time and memory and family, and when my son was attacked, a new idea (panic) came….when David wrote that he wanted to create a “magazine” with ASSIGNMENTS, i thought: ok, what can i do, what should i do, how can i pitch this idea to David as if he were a PE. Originally, i wanted to do a story on Chris anderson (who was in Toronto running a Magnum Workshop) and then i changed my mind and came up with the idea of photographing Dima and the Dinosaur bones….as soon as i shot the 1st day, and then looked at the negs, i realized something different would happen with the story…and then i went crazy…became about fathers and my own memories as a child, david’s struggle with polio, and my mom’s hopsitalization…all this as a way to try to tell my son the story of my own childhood and that we were connected, bones, memory, sadness, all this coming…that i couldnt give him my dna (because we dont share t his) but that I could give him my memories, because they were a part of him now….and so, bones progressed….i’ll finish the last part when my mom comes in november….

    so, now 2 new ideas for work, a project on Water and a project on Russia (both here in toronto and in Russia proper)….

    i actually always seem to have too many ideas…too many photographs…and i dont shoot everyday…but work in series, work on specific ideas/projects, usually born of a feeling or idea or person or place….i always tease Dima that im never gonna publish a photography book/books, only written ones, and it will be his burden to put together my archive so it makes sense ;)))))))))…..

    but in the end, the way i manage the 2 (to shoot what i love with what i need) is to try and do both together. I started to shoot Korean and bones for David, for this blog, and with time, i felt connected to it and then all else too over….

    the problem or balance for me comes from figuring out what project will make sense, which work is the good work, is the work that will help feed my family….that’s still a mystery to me….

    in the end, i end up shooting what i love, because for me it isnt so much about “what” i shoot but that I am photographing, the same way i write, about something that matters a great deal to me, be it my wife, son and friends, or the city around me, or a specific idea, because i’ve invested my life in things around me, people, places, books, words, ideas, sounds, smells, faces, shadows, memories all fill me with wonder and confusion, all of which inspires me to continue….to not forget, to build stories, as Herodotus reminds, as a way to know “who your neighbor is”, and that, for me, means understanding this ineffable world , which disappears so quickly, as if mercury plaited, and soon all those thoughts and memories and joices and joints wil be gone….

    to balance: for me, to try to make sure i pay attention to that part of the world, that part of photography that still animates my 40 year old bones….


    p.s i realize i totally didnt answer David’s questions….oh well…

  • Well, as no one seems to have liked the Hispanic Day Parade set, here is a set of pics about what to do in New York City in the wake of any large public gathering:


    I saw you! I saw AKAKY!!! Check out the blond-haired guy with the camera to his eye in the bottom left of image #16 (“Taking pictures of shoppers”). There he is, the famous, illusive Akaky.

    Good set of images, my friend…loose, spontaneous, true street shots. BRAVO!!!


    P.S. I missed the earlier link to your Hispanic Parade pics. Could you please post it again?

  • Akaky I like the style of black and white you chose to shoot with.

    The photographs are all nice however the one that stood out for me the most was:

    eat corn while you shop

    I think the reason is it gives me a little more depth, especially with the person coming into the frame on the left.

    just my 2¢


    One more shot for all to look at from yesterday’s shoot:

  • Thanx Karim and Patricia, and it’s not blonde, it’s just graying. And here’s the return of the Hispanic Day Parade set:

  • And how do you know that’s me?

  • Akaky…
    all my love , but…
    if you really wanna mess with black n white…!
    your mannequin below is the WAY TO GO….

    … but you totally missed it in all the rest
    of the photos…;-(

    good work , but the B&W broke my heart…
    Again , the b&w mannequin is the way to go..

    peace & hugs

  • I can not keep up here.
    So much to do…
    The loft slideshow
    PATRICIA’S work with captions.
    Right now packing.

    Hopefully I can catch up tomorrow?

    One quick comment for

    Small world JEREMY, I came across your ceremonial photos just a couple of days ago! Googling around I somehow ran into them and you! Have you posted here before? When I saw your name the other day something seemed familiar…

    My husband lived in Gallup for years, believe it or not. He owned a trading post in Zuni. Unfortunately this was all before I knew him but now to make up for all I missed out on I also shoot powwows. Next images I am posting are my (as yet unedited) powwow shots from this summer…never photographed in Gallup but I plan to next summer.

    Any idea how I would know you? I’ll look on your site for more clues.


    After an annoying attempt to post, with the same results Bob had, here we go again (after more than half an hour trying…).
    From your lates list: 1, 4 and 7 are my favorites and I agree with Bob on the following links:

  • And also these:

    I also believe you could use the lovely text from “The sun shines on Eddie’s homecoming”. I admire the way you declared your love to your husband.


    You are such a knowledgeable man.
    I used to pass by your long texts not reading most of it, but I did an attempt and then decided to save some of your previous comments I’ve been digging on old posts, along with David’s and a few other amazing photographers and writers we find around here (priceless teachings for all of us).
    Of course I need on the next tab but it’s OK for me… ;-))

    All the best,
    Ari B.

    …but HOW can i leave the bed with that hot beautiful female
    creature naked next to me ???????? …

    Wow, this blog is something else. Last I talked to Panos, he was from his own words, homeless, shooting his way into the sunset (hours), and 2 days later….Do I understand that he is now a….. Famous photographer!?!?



    I thought some of the Hispanic Day parade pictures were ‘almost there’ but that the subject matter and compositions in the Aftermath series were more interesting… but here I’m with Panos (??!!), only the mannequin shot has sufficient b&w contrast… all the other shots could be improved by greatly increasing the contrast, getting some really deep rich black in there, some larger areas of negative space.

    About the parade… this is a special kind of photography that takes lots and lots of practice, trial and error, quick reflexes, total control of whatever camera you’re using. Don’t get discouraged that you didn’t necessarily score bullseyes the first time around but keep at it. Clearly you had ideas for pictures beyond just colorful costumes, and eventually you’ll become much more adept at this. Maybe you are already hip to this fact, but auto focus is almost useless in this situation, manual focus on the fly is a must.

    I’ve done a lot of festival and parade shooting like this, and my own advice is get there AT LEAST an hour and a half before the ‘event’ actually begins and go to the marshalling locations at the beginning of the route and interact with the parade participants. Most of the successful pictures of this kind I’ve taken were not in the course of the actual parade, but in hobnobbing with paraders while they’re waiting, warming up, jiving with each other, and it is often much easier to get past the police security and into contact with your subjects then. And once they recognize you, later they will be much more cooperative in helping you get good shots during the actual parade and afterwards.


    L-O-V-E the collarbones on that last shot!



    L-O-V-E the collarbones on that last shot!


    Posted by: Sidney Atkins | October 18, 2008 at 09:24 PM

    Damn right!!!!!!!!!!
    light, feeling, eyes, intensity, bones structure , body language..


  • Cathy:

    Thanks for the note..I checked out your “lightstalker” link, not sure how we have crossed paths, I am based out of Durango, I have indeed posted here before, and a couple years back I was at the “Summit” workshop where I first met David…most likely you recognize my name from here.

    On another note, I would love to see your Powwow projects when the time comes! Zip an email my way when you post! There is also a small Powwow here in Durango every year called “Hozoni Days”…perhaps you will make it out here some day! The door here at my home is certainly open for you and your husband! Keep me posted.

    Cheers, Jeremy

  • DAVID and ALL-

    I have not been present as often over the past days as I have been working hard on trying to complete my Boxing Essay for the EPF assignment. I have just added at least 50% of new pictures since David and I did an edit back in Perpignan. I have taken these new shots over the past month (actually shot primarily during one week). Importantly, when not shooting, following David’s advice, I have interviewed all these boxers, young and not so young, to try to penetrate their lifes a bit more… While it will take me a while to do a MultiMedia piece (Erica, I am sure you will complete yours way before me!!!!), I still went through several hours of tapes that I have recorded of conversations I have had and I have extracted some quotes that I have added in the slideshow.

    The essay is now called “LORDS OF THE RING”…

    Please go to the index page (link underneath) and at the top under new Lords of the ring, you will find it.

    Obviously, I look forward to all of your comments and of those of David as well. Ultimately, I will do a tighter edit and probably rework parts of it for final submission but I wanted to share where this stands as some of you have been asking me some questions in private e-mail. For perspective, I have kept some pictures of some more “famous” Cincinnati Olympians who are not my best shots but I wanted to also show these guys for the overall story and share some of their quotes…

    Hope you enjoy it. Will eagerly wait now….



  • DAVID,

    This last picture of the mother and the three daughters is beautiful, very sensual…Love it!


  • Eric,
    quick question…
    what made you choose the “boxing” subject?

  • QUESTION NO2 ( to Eric , of course )…
    what made you choose that ( your ) light,…?

  • eric
    some amazing shots, incredible color and light. the huge thing missing for me are some images which show a sense of place. many are the same framing, same size figures in the field. where are we? show us, please.
    you are quite an accomplished photographer for someone with a day job — how incredible would you be if you chucked the job?
    B T


    Do you have DAH’S “flash -strobe- obssession,
    when you shoot???

    does the slow speed gives you what you need ?


    what is the “relationship” that you
    are trying to create between the boxers and me?
    Why should i fucking care???


    … fuck me for a second… ( although, in my life ERIC, its all about me, and feel free to blame my mom for my bad self …)

    but.. honestly, im asking..
    HOW DO YOU RELATE with them.. boxers…???

    I dont see you at all… in those photos…


    even if i love your photos ( and i do…)
    … here ERIC.. in this “naked” forum..
    i need to know… what are you
    “OFFERING” me and what should i buy…???

    what makes you closer to them????


    come on … i love you

  • PANOS:

    Got the link. I will email you tomorrow. Time for bed here.


  • ERIC

    I don’t know what to say. I’ve just looked at every one of those 93 photos & quotes one-by-one (the slideshow goes way too fast), and feel like my heart’s been ripped out of my chest and hung up to dry. Man, you have REALLY done it here. This is the REAL DEAL.

    I remember when you first showed us this project. I remember David’s saying you had to get closer, you had to make it your own. Well, you have. At least that’s how I see it.

    To be honest, I wouldn’t want to be the one to try to edit this work. I was mesmerized throughout. Of course I’m a former social worker so the personal approach you’ve chosen with these men and boys, using their own words coupled with such close-up views into their eyes, hits me where I live.

    Now maybe some will say you should show more of their non-boxing lives. And maybe you should. All I know is that you had me TOTALLY with you for all 93 slides.

    I say, BRAVO and thank you. You’ve taken me into a world I could never have entered on my own, and isn’t that what we want?

    in awe


    Please feel free to comment on the work on The 37th Frame. Especially if it is yours that I post. I think readers would be interested in your thoughts and motivation for your work.

    Thanks all!

  • but… PATRICIA…
    all im asking is that…
    “…why,??.. how come…?
    Eric is not a boxer…!!!!!
    then, why… how come he relates…????

    how about.. YOU,
    answer instead of ERIC ???

    im not judging here…
    just try to CONNECT…

    i loved loved loved loved loved
    AKAKY’S self portrait… and his

    HORRIFIC… BUT… amazing connection i felt…

    … with Eric though… i see the “virtuoso”.. the great photog… the perfect…
    the excellent… the amazing …

    ok… HONESTLY… IF IT WAs a song…

    WHERE DO I STAND?????????

    eric, i love your work… technically you are the best photog i know in here… noone knows more than you…

    but, im an “emo”… i need to feel how and why you got involved in this… coz..
    i need to go deeper./..

    and then… trust me..
    i’ll let you go…



  • PANOS,

    As you may know, last year, for the first EPF submission, I had started to do a small essay in the Over-the-Rhine in Cincinnati. Somehow, I started approaching some of the kids from the ghetto but, at that time, somehow, I never had a chance to penetrate “inside really”. One day, I came across an article on Rau Shee on a local newspaper. Rau is one of the boxers I have met who has represented the US in the recent Beijing Olympics… I heard for the first time that there was a real boxing tradition here in the city… This is when I proposed to do this essay for David… At the time, I knew nothing about boxing, did not even know if I would be accepted in these local gyms… The more I have spent time there, the closer I have become to these young boxers… They have accepted me immediately…no question asked… I somehow felt at ease with them… As strange as this may seem to you, although you suggest that you do not see me in these photographs, I feel in many ways incredibly similar to these kids… I was training like crazy when I was a young kid to actually become professional tennis player… very different sport vs Boxing, a priviledge sport but I have found memories of this hard discipline and daily routine, the sacrifices done to get better, the competition, the disappointment when you cannot reach the top, strange feeling of adults pushing you around… Importantly, I have also been a relatively lonely kid, in many ways, I still wonder if I have completely join the adult word… The tension between the kids world and the tough reality of the adult world outside, the ghetto, the drugs etc is something that I feel deep inside. So, I think there is more of me into these photographs that you may think…that loneliness, sense of despair sometimes that is so close in these kids and in me as well and, at the same time, the need to fight whether on the ring or for your professional life… All I can tell you Panos is that this work has had an impact on me profoundly… Yesterday, I left my day job where I was hassled and went to a bar with Riccardo Williams Sr, father of the Olympian who won that Silver medal but was then sent to jail for 3 years. We talked about life… the struggles… He is broke, has sacrified himself for his son… sometimes comes across as carrying the world on his shoulders… I had just left hours ago some excutives of a consumer goods company and let me teel me that I felt more myself in that bar…


  • … and again eric.. im so intrigued by your work…

    i never asked anyone else so many freaking questions….

    peace out..

  • BOB T,

    Interesting comment… I have actually photographed also the gyms, the environment… When we met with David back in Perpignan for an initial edit of my work, we both felt that my best shots were the very close “Action portraits” that I had done and we agreed to focus on that. I did worry myself that this may turn out to be more repetitive but eventually, I felt that these close portraits could be a could way of caputring the soul of these young boxers and I tried to further go into that direction by sharing their words…


    I am so glad that you have enjoyed the essay. Your pov matters to me a lot!



  • PANOS,

    I enjoy being bombarded by questions :):):). I hope I gave you some perspective… One more thing… This work is not over for me… I have started a journey with these kids and I will carry on following them whether there is EPF or not… It has been as much of a self exploration as a photographic essay…

    Who knows…by the time I post this quick comment, I may have 3 more of your questions :):)!!!

    Thanks for engaging Panos! This is what this is all about.




    I would not FEEL what I do when I look at these photos & read the words of these men and boys if Eric weren’t in EVERY picture and word himself. Yes, he’s a superb photographer–one of our very best–but that isn’t what grabbed me, what made me catch my breath time and time again. It was the TRUTH of what he shows, its SOUL. And I knew before having read his response to your questions, Panos, that Eric has been changed by this work, by these people. I could FEEL it. It doesn’t surprise me in the least to hear him say he felt more comfortable at that bar with Riccardo Williams Sr. than he did with the executives at the company where he works. Of course he does. They’ve become his people.

    I don’t know if my words help answer any of your questions, my dear brother Panos, but, believe me, they come from my heart.


  • … and honestly Eric…
    a magnum photog offered us Thai boxing …
    i had the same questions for the magnum guy also..
    i never meant that you dont care or this that…
    Eric , if you dont care.. then , that magnum guy ( who i totally respect ) …
    doesnt care either…!!!!!

    you know what i mean ??
    i totally respect you both…
    but i can only have access to you…

    …thats why i love DAH…
    coz everyone else is soooooo ELITE…


    … again,
    all my respect to you ERIC…
    and Pat….. you know i love you…


  • And I love you too, dear Panos


  • aLL

    What do you think of the wiki site? Too complicated or too cumbersumb?


    I’m off to bed right now but will check it out tomorrow. Can you please post the link again? Thanks for sticking with this. It’s going to be a cool project!


  • thanks for the answer, eric.
    not having seen your prior work, and only knowing this work, i just would like 2 or 3 “establishing shots” to set the scene. you could certainly lose a couple of your current images in favor of some other images which would round out the story. i’m pretty sure a photo editor or art director would ask the same, unless you are only going to show a story about portraits. maybe david had you drop those others because you didn’t have the closer work; now you have both and perhaps you could mix some in. yes, as patricia says they are emotive and powerful. but even DAH himself steps back to show some environment now and then.

    Bob T (anon!)

  • AKAKY,

    I believe the key word for your essay on the parade is composition, as mentioned by Sidney. Something is missing…
    And I also liked the mannequin and the overall B/W pics.


    I like the balance between light and shadow and the delicacy of forms it brings up.
    And the model helps! ;-))


    I visited your gallery and left a post.
    Liked the after church portrait.


    Really like the subject, the colors and the lighting. It’s a wrong impression or did you mix flash and existing light?
    In my humble opinion more editing will strenghten your work. Some images are a bit repetitive.

    Ari B.

  • Eric, I have to agree with Panos (except that i do not take drugs, ahahah) and bobt/Ari. Many of your shots are a bit set up the same way, angle and subject, and the text is so much about the escape from the world outside the ring, why nothing from there, the life outside, the homes? That would give us a sense of context and get into the kids life, “open a door”. I’d love to see “Mama”, for ex….

    No, not Patricia! :-)

    Panos has a point. What do you want to convey?

  • Ari, thanks for your note, it’s not your first, I think. People have no idea what taking the time to write a few words can mean.

    By the way, I am adding one photo as a single, didn’t fit the mood of the gallery, or maybe it did (a la October 2008!!!), I dunno… Anyway:

  • Pete Marovich,

    thanks a lot for putting my Family Ties project on your magazine.

  • Its interesting Peter you chose Family Ties…I had been focused so much more on Home Sweet Home that sometimes I overlook FT as a project. Though I wanted to mention that I recently won a small contest with a 6 photo edit from Family Ties, and a nice little bundle of cash.


    No new pictures… soon, I hope. I was taking the same picture over and over and over again. Nudny, nudny, nudny…. Every picture I take is the same picture!


    Lucky man… a stack of good stuff is sounds… love the Hamburger Eyes!! Happy birthday!


    Great idea… I think the wiki might be useful even beyond the october project… nice work, too!


    The hand-colored photo in #9 is brilliant… that on it’s own??


    Of course I remember the teary post… wonderful, yes and the films are just so fucking brilliant… I can’t wait until next month. Storylines I browsed and browsed… it was on the list and I dropped the ball. Now OOP I should jump quick…

    Went for a walk today… to Avenue J in Midwood (nowhere, not even vaguely cool) brooklyn to meet a true artist. His name is Domenico, an old man from Naples and he works in the medium of pizza… people reportedly wait 2-3 hours for his pies… lucky, we waited only an hour at his counter, watching him work, for ours… what killed me was watching his joy as he worked, his smile as he gave every pie, after doing this for 40 years… the pizza is the best I’ve ever had. Yet another reason…


    Thanks for the visual reminder!!! Great meeting and talking at the party!


    Re: after the parade photos… I think your instincts are great, and I love the commentary/titles… do you know Les Krims? He has the best photo titles in the business, bar none.

    I have gotten some serious heat/insubordination from several Mr. Softees. What is up with that?

    Sorry I missed you last weekend… but the invitation is always open, if you’re ever in midtown and would want to shoot together… let me know.


    Love the work… professional, warm, close, evocative… wonderful. (I do think it could be edited further… too many)

    The critique I have is… and take it for what it’s worth… it seems somehow safe. You are obviously a talented and advanced visual communicator. You have the photo gene. The work is super strong but I get the sense that the strength is premeditated… I want to see risk, the unexpected, a surprise… some failure, if that makes sense… the work seems uniformly great. It needs (I think) something internally fucked up to give it traction. You know what I’m saying?

  • Cathy, I feel your frustration. I get left behind all the time. I’m trying real hard to keep up with this thread.

    Akaky, are you scanning monochrome prints? They come up a little flat. Or are you shooting monochrome in camera digitally? Curious. Much potential if you can spike to contrast some.

  • PATRICIA, I love your pictures, no need to say why but it’s your writing that I’m relishing at the moment. Probably because of your pictures, somehow. Fine writing. Something I want to get better at.

  • DAH and Bob B. too. Exquisite word smiths both.

  • And of course, AKAKY. And so many others. But AKAKY cracks me up.

  • ERIC, I think it’s time for you to turn pro. A sumptuous (there’s that work again that I like so much) colour shot maker like you should be paid to do it.

    Lords of the Ring is a highly accomplished piece of work, for example.

    Has anyone else said this to you? Perhaps on this blog? I may have missed it.

  • ARI,

    You are spot on! I try indeed to use available light (often quite dark in these gyms) and use the pop-up small flash that I have on my camera to bring up the colors… I will certainly do a tighter edit (down to 30 images) for the final submission….or maybe let David edit (always easier :):).


    Thanks for the comment. You make me think :):)!!


    I think I understand what you are saying. Back to the comment that David often shares to may of us to get loose… well, I try sometimes to do this and I love complex composition that can be “internally fucked up” but somehow, I focused here more on very close portraits and sticked to this approach…maybe could have been more loose… Thanks for the suggestion… First time someone actually suggested to me to be internally fucked up :):):)!


    I recall you gave me that suggestion last time already and I promise, I did not ignore as this was my plan to shoot these kids in their normal life but then… we started talking with david and all in all, seemed to make more sense to stick to these action portraits…maybe you were right… will see what David thinks here… As I said above, I will carry on with this project anyway so suggestions on what to focus on are most welcomed.




    From where the fourth siren?
    Lovely, lovely portrait.

  • As far as David’s question, I never photograph anything I dont want to. Everything I photograph is what I want to photograph. I like it that way, though I sometimes wonder what Id do if I had to photograph something someone else picked for me.


    I am catching up and had not yet seen the slideshow from David’s loft workshop. REally strong work by many but your work was simply amazing. I love your vision, the complexity of your images… In a way, it reminds me of the complex rich composition that you find in Alex Webb with your own Asian sensitivity… I cannot believe you did this in just a week. I think you have heard this from many before but you are a very talented photographer!!! You made me want to go out and shoot!!



  • I agree with Eric

    Kyunghee, you are Treasure.

  • ERIC,

    What a BIG essay!! Really great job!! I can feel a touching closeness in these pictures, effort, sensibility, preassure, action… wow! You got it, man!! I liked most of the photos and # 37 bewitched me for a while. By the way, I love the color of those photos. How do you get it?
    Looking at this essay I just realized that I need to get closer to my subjects. Much more close!
    I wish those Lords of the Ring pictures where mine ;-)


    Still really confussed. Everybody mentions something called the october project . And what’s that WIKI site for? Are both related?

    Peace to all


  • ERIC,

    …and # 56….. no words to describe. Just great!

  • and # 40!!!

    Ok, I stop now :-P

  • Eric,

    j’adore tes nouvelles images, j’aime toujours autant tes couleurs, ta lumière… tu as fait un énorme travail! Félicitations!!!

    Bon dimanche, audrey

  • Depression hovered over the house of my soul like a black crow looking for a place to land.


    beautifully represented.. anyone whos felt that edge will recognize well the metaphor.


    you have a real talent for writing.. the introduction to photos is, in your case, essential i think.. the context it lends adds tremendously to the poignancy of the images and knowing you previously, yet not knowing what you are writing of, has illuminated us to a side we do not see.. adds to the strength which which i p[personally perceive you.. strength to be honest.. press on.. show vulnerability..
    to me the text is an illustration of the most private part of you, which you also show with your photos..
    the edit is looking great by the way, and now seeing it with the flow of conscious text it is easy to see a book preparing itself right under our collective eyes..

    lovely stuff.. will read it again shortly.


    your fashion / portrait work is good.. funnily enough i am teaching fashion right now with my students..
    one of the first lessons concerns the genres of fashion.. or more to the point the way in which fashion itself does not constitute a genre.. rather it borrows from other genres.. portraiture.. reportage.. also the exoticism and ‘otherness’ of travel and ethnographic photography..
    with shooting fashion it can really free up our minds to consider the theory.. allow ourselves to follow other photographic genres in order to create a story, an angle which a magazine would find fresh and new..
    since this forum is mostly concerned with storytelling and the narrative you are in great company to shoot in this way, be it studio or otherwise, and add a style to your work – get a head-start – which many commercial photographers are missing..


    some great snaps in the inter-tribal selection.. it is very difficult, as i’m sure you know from africa, to get ‘into’ a subject such as this.. village life..
    i really like your style and i’ve no idea if anyone else has mentioned it but i’d love to see you spending more time with the subject.. the style is comming along and i’d love to see the more mundane activities of the people concerned.. the day to day to day to day.. if thats a possibility i tghink it would be great.
    and.. a study over 2 days.. i think it’s possible.. if you become a walking camera and photograph incessantly without end.. much better, i believe, to carry on over time.. but thats just me, i know..
    sorry if i repeat other thoughts or misunderstood here – i’ve been away and no time to catch up on comments properly..

    pete m

    really like the site and the inclusion of EPF.. once my edit of music work is nearing completion i’d love to be featured.. emailed you..

    patricia again

    i love 1, 8 and 12 from the possible new photos.. if they fit in to your mind, of course..
    you can see i’m reading posts chronologically :o)


    so many births around this time.. must be the new year lovemaking :o)


    i liked your day parade phots..
    i think the problem i have with parade photos is that the subject is there.. taking photos can become something of a formula.. the crowd.. the action.. covering all bases.. like sports photos, which are difficult to do in a way we have not seen time and time again..
    did you do some jazz photos? i liked those more in a way..


    looking great.. some of the better work on here.. well edited..
    i don’t think you have to become what you photograph and as far as your style – you are a very strong editorial photographer to me.. squeeze a bunch of this kind of study out every year and the relationships between each chosen subject will emerge.

    nice one.


    apologies for typos.. typing one hand and rocking baby with the other :o)


    no time to read all – will do so later..
    you are the perfect choice for an ed in chief.. no question.. big-ups

  • Crazy busy trying to scan and touch up my edit for epf..this is going to take forever working with b&w digital ice!


    Thought the following might be welcomed as English is not your first language..

    quickly, text notes

    slide 2: From the beginnings should be From the beginning or From its beginnings
    Not sure I understand your meaning of “offered little presence”

    slide 3: Rally should be plural if you start with many:

    Many a troubled and troublesome youngster have embraced the sweet science as a way out, a social staircase out of the mean streets that formed their limited world, fighting their way, bloody hand-over-bloody hand, up the ladder of acceptance the only way they know, with their fists (you have a typo on fists).

    slide 4: a city rich with boxing history

    slide 5: can match it may sound better as has matched it, as you are talking in the past

    slide 7: older (better if it modifies something, older men, older boxers)

    Slide 93: better with a comma after Siler

  • sorry ERIC, need to clarify..

    don’t know where “rally” came from, except am watching Meet the Press in the background..the sentence should stay in the plural, as I wrote it above

    slide 5: “can match it” may sound better as “has matched it”, as you are talking about something in the past

    slide 7: “older” would work better if it modifies something, for example, older men, older boxers


    I’ve just spent time looking over your galleries. You have a fine eye and wonderful technique that shows up most powerfully in the galleries where you photograph what you know. But isn’t that true of us all?

    Your photos taken while you were a Peace Corps volunteer in Lesotho tell the story of the people with whom you lived and worked. I can feel your engagement with them even in the landscape & village life images. And b&w works wonderfully well here.

    “Ranch Life” is my favorite. These images get so close that I swear I can smell the sweat and tobacco that surrounds these cowboys as they work. I would so like to see you explore this theme and go more deeply into it. You live in Colorado so I’m guessing these folks are around you just waiting to be photographed. Go for it!

    The Pow Wow galleries don’t really work for me. I feel you were holding back, probably because you didn’t want to take the chance of offending anyone. If you want to tackle this again, I’d suggest you spend a lot of time with the people first, just getting comfortable with one another. And then get in close, real close.

    DC Metro spoke to me because I’ve spent a lot of time in DC over the years, was born there in fact. There are some stunning shots in this series, but again I’d like to see more.

    Glad you’re with us, Jeremy. And thanks for letting us see your work. As DAH says, just keep shooting, shooting, shooting!


  • mike

    if you cannot wait to see cocksucker blues, it’s on youtube..


    storylines at the tate was magnificent.. understated as well, with relatively small frames.. and a booth.. a lovely booth rotating screenings of the films.. wonderful afternoon spent with a friend wandering through the work.. i still look at the book once a month or so..
    one of my two fav exhibitions of all time, along with salgardo at the southbank center, which was awesome.. quality of printing.. arrangement of epic, large frames.. something else.


    balance has to be one of the most important word to understand well..
    a pertinent post for all..

  • ALL

    remember the menonite photos from a post or two ago? cannot remember the guys name.. great start on a great project..


  • ERIC

    I fear that ERICA’s attempts to clean up your language may have confused you further. Forgive me ERICA for butting in, you are normally such an impressive communicator and so good with language, but this morning I fear you are either multi-tasking or hung over or something. If I weren’t a native speaker, I would have been very confused by your corrections and clarifications.

    So here are my “further clarifications”:

    Slide 2 (“… that offered little presence…”) should read:
    “…the projects, the barrios, the places that offered little chance for the present and even less of a future…”

    Slide 3 (“… Many a troubled and troublesome youngster has embraced…”)
    ERIC, your original is fine… Sorry, ERICA, but “Many A troubled youngster has” is correct. If he had written “Many youngsters” then, yes, “have”, but the “a” after “many” makes it singular

    Slide 5 I agree with ERICA, but when I first read what she wrote it wasn’t clear to me what she was saying. It should read “…no other city has matched it..”

    Slide 7 I agree that “older” by itself is a problem. ERICA’s choices of “older men” or “older boxers” are both just fine… my own choice would be the less specific “older ones”:
    “Listen to what the older ones have to say…”

    ERIC, when your project is a little further along and edited a little more tightly, you should have some real nit-picker go over the language with you. But like photo editing, this is a much more efficient process if done in person than on line!

    (And apologies to ERICA)



    Deep gratitude to each of you for taking the time to look at my most recent edit of “Falling Into Place,” for reading the text and for checking out my newest “possibles”. Your comments & suggestions will definitely help me keep moving forward with this project.

    Tom’s email suggestion is a powerful invitation for me to drop ever more deeply into this subject as I write. David B, you chose three of my favorites from the possibles. #12 was taken and added just this morning. Ari, you shared links to some of my favorites too, and Paul’s enthusiastic response to my writing gives me a warm feeling. After eight years of daily blogging, writing has come to feel quite natural. As we all know, if you practice something every day, you’re bound to get better at it.

    Thanks to ALL! Again the links are:

    1. My most recent edit with text:
    PASSWORD patricia

    2. Twelve new possible additions:
    PASSWORD patricia


  • hey SIDNEY,

    Am! multi tasking (haven’t been hung over since I was 18 :) )but I was reading “many a troubled and troublesome youngster” as “many a troubled youngster and troublesome youngster have embraced the sweet science as a way out” so wouldn’t that be have, or am i overtired? If it the meaning is “many a youngster who is troubled and troublesome” I agree it would be has..

  • (ie reading it as “many a cat and dog have walked the streets”) not as “many a furry and sweet cat has walked the streets”)

  • skills, my written, rubbish are..
    best step right back subject from, and erica Sidney leave with the ball..
    as it were..

  • ERICA,

    Sure! But, ERIC’s Slide #3 actually reads: “Many a troubled and troublesome youngster has embraced..” and there is nothing wrong with that.

  • SIDNEY..

    yes, right, but I was thinking Eric meant to separate the troubled from the troublesome (you obviouly don’t have to be troublesome if you are troubled) now am wondering, if that is indeed his intent, which is correct? have?

    this is fun..

  • …. the key of NOT being hangovered:
    “lots of water and eat HUMMUS first thing in the morning…
    then force yourself to the bathroom…
    as simple as that…

    … haven’t been hangovered since i was 18 either…



  • … hung over, not hang over…


    10:29am in cali…

  • I think it’s time for you to turn pro. A sumptuous (there’s that work again that I like so much) colour shot maker like you should be paid to do it.

    This is a great sentence on a subject we have not really approached. David, can you, before blog’s end, start a topic on what makes the difference that will have someone “turn” pro?

    I have a feeling that, no matter the talent, lest it is shining like a lone star shines over billions others in the sky, one does not TURN pro. One tries to make it, with dedication and then…. well, that’s what we could discuss about.

    I often ask myself, who here will in a decade or rather 2, look back and see they had a career, and their craft came to be more than answering commands, that their photography was their career.

    I ask myself,but I don’t answer it, not by cynicism, but because there is so much unlikeliness in achieving one’s photography thru a career, that talent is just what puts you in the starting blocks.

    What if everyone was wrong, and the perfect vehicle to convey what happens in “RINGS…”, was hihly contrasted B&W?

    On a side note, I see you are congratulated for your color work, but I also remember that’s what people say about Mc Curry, to end up saying they prefer edgier, to summarize, photography (like Webb over McC for David.. And just about everyone I know, including me).

    On a more general note, and it is not just about what people have told you here, but a reflection on 4 years of net-reading what people say about another member/peer’s photography, we should feel always encouraged by someone paying attention to what we do, and we do all I am sure, but we should always beware of praise/critisim that does not truly show it picks out (some of) what we tried, if confusely many times, to convey, of the subject and of ourselves even.

  • I was wrong. I have friends who have no idea, or barely who is Webb, and their coffee-table does have the latest Mc Curry book.

  • AGAIN,

    I’m pretty impressed by mr.P Marovich’s
    Amazing web hosting magazine… High end
    Gallery or whatever you wanna call it..

    Great work..
    Now featuring RAFAL

    Again, I’m so in love with
    Andrew S’s colors..
    Just like Eric Espinosa’s colors..
    Those two ( AndrewS & Eric E)
    are the color maestros here..
    Lot to learn from them…

  • ALL.

    Now even further behind in seeing all the new work. :((
    Busy day today…maybe if I work hard I can get to it this evening.
    Everyone please stop posting for a few hours :))

    ERIC…love the title!

    Will try to see your work later today along with Loft slideshow, Patricia, Akaky and everything else I have not been able to get to.

    Thanks for the invite :)) Now you have reminded me that my LS link is in deep need of updating…another thing to add to my list!
    Have you ever spent time in Santa Fe? Taken a workshop here?


    You’ll have to ask Eric what his intent was (ERIC??). Maybe you’re right (about his intent), that he meant two distinct types of youngsters. All I’m saying is, there’s nothing wrong with his sentence as it stands (which does imply that the troubled youngsters are also troublesome).
    My day job includes a lot of translating, editing (mostly text, not photos) and proofreading, and my personal policy when editing is to give the writer the benefit of the doubt, that he or she means what they say, and change as little as possible… unless it’s clear that there is a problem with the meaning or the grammar. Some translators and editors are much more heavy-handed and interventionist than I am. That’s a question of style and philosophy.

  • Panos, can I have a link to your stuff please? Haven’t seen it for a while. I’m playing catch up here.


    I think I am reading the text while thinking of how it sounds en are good to change as little as is required..I want you to edit for me!

  • David post:

    you continue to do fine work with sensitivity and style and compassion……please stay with this project..this week we will have a “place” for you to put all of it….i will help you with editing if you so desire…
    Sorry David but I just read your post now…stupendooo,
    I have many images and I really need your help to edit them.
    How can we do?

    baci cristina

  • Anton is doing very poetic stuff with color too, and IMO, just starting. Erica ain’t “shit” either….

  • Paul ..
    I’m in a park right now..
    Following my “DARK KIDS”
    Please go to the previous thread…
    Last page .. I posted 3 new links..
    I’m glad you are back “here”..
    After your big life changes.. From NY
    to LONDON…

  • ..or Paul..
    go to the previous page..
    and click on my name .. Once it’s
    Highlighted ..
    Thanks bro.

  • Patricia & David Bowen:

    …thank you for the ideas, direction and input you put out there, Patricia…you nailed it! I was holding back..b/c I didn’t want to offend, and while I was still trying, still shooting, night and day…no one really “let me in”. ..perhaps my intrige with the “ceremonial” was the challenge aspect and the hope that it would peak the interest of others….I agree with both of take this to the next level, will require comfort and personal contacts, people I can first get to know,..then travel to “ceremony” with them, as a guest, friend or journalist!

    On your other comment…yes! I can see the the “big’ corral with it’s crusty cowboys and cattle dogs from my kitchin window..I can smell the place wafing up to my porch on a hot summer day!! I know cowboys, I know horses, I drink beer; I think it’s time to look a bit closer to home! Thank you!


    …I lived in Santa Fe when I was five….my mom and I rocked around on a yellow moped! I have not been back since. Sorry.


    I looked through your “boxers” over coffee. Your use of “flash and motion” really caught my eye! …and such deep colors…Congrats on all the hard work!

    Cheers, Jeremy


    It’s a real pleasure and a privilege to contribute to your project!


    I’ve noticed but I wasn’t really sure. The results are great in my opinion, but the suggestion from Herve is interesting. Don’t you think about B/W? Maybe it’s a different direction for your project but, well, it’s your call and as he also said (if I understood correctly…) let’s not all diiferent ideas and oppinions confuse you!


    I’ve been visiting Chris Bickford’s site today and his approach on surf is really beautiful. Different from most surf pictures we see on magazines (covers mainly. I am not a surfer…).
    I was also impressed with his street portfolio. Really stunning pictures!
    Yours is on my list to visit.


    Another quick note: I really enjoyed your smart (witty, spirited?) captions on “after the parade”!


    I keep visiting some of your websites and blogs. Imaging overdose!
    Checking Jeremy’s, Erica’s, Kyunghee’s, Paul’s…
    Also trying to work on my portfolio. This blog is very, very addictive and we end up spending more time than we should…

    All the best!
    Ari B.

  • Paul, again i’m not acting “hard to get”….

    here is Young Tom’s favorite link from Venice Beach…


    Ari…. ;-)

    “addictive” & “contagious”…
    aint it ?????

  • ALL

    There’s a live showing online right now of the results of the 2008 International B&W Spider Awards. Interesting to see a variety of excellent works.

    I entered some stuff. Did anyone else?


    i don’t know if you’ve seen the blog reader i made a while ago:
    but if you need computer/programming skills for the ‘new home’ of january 2009, you can ask!!!

    this post is available on the blog reader. I had a few problems with it, as David made a post in ‘Work in Progress’, so my blog didn’t update, and i was offline the last two days…

    i look at your last edit, it’s my preferred! There were pictures i’ve never seen, so it was great. I’m happy that you’re going on with this project!!!

    DAVID B.
    Great! I had the project (someday…) to make a panoramic pinhole, xpan of the poor…i liked your words about photography in general and balance!


  • DAVID B., thank you for posting KURT’s links …. whoaaa, county fair, mennonite (old world or actually Amish?), and the recent barber shop jam is hot too.

    KURT! Wow … love it, love it all. Where is this, some looks north, some south … which means midatlantic? ohio? I missed an apparent previous post about this … fascinated to know more, especially since I will be working with anabaptists this year.


    p. s. David B., have you a new self-portrait, perhaps with your new son? Huge, huge belated congratulations … i’m catching up. ‘Cause, to be honest, whenever i read your great posts i picture your naked butt with a balloon in hand … and it’s a little disconcerting :))))

  • Yeah Panos!, there’s an icon or two in that set :)))


    Thank you all for the comments and the advice; it is much appreciated. Now, as to questions:

    PAUL, no, these are scans from film. I shot the Aftermath sequence with Arista Premium 400, which I think is actually Tri-X, pushed to 1250, using an orange filter (most of the time) on a 50mm f/1.8 lens and shot at 1/1000 whenever there was enough light to get away with speed that fast (no flash). I don’t develop and scan my stuff myself.

    MIKE, no, I don’t know Les Krims, and I suspect it will be quite a while before I am in the city again, but thanks for the offer anyway. ;-) I don’t know what it is about Mr. Softee that seems to unleash driver aggression; I suspect it must be the high sugar content and the frustration of dealing with clamoring kids all day long.

    As to the question of contrast, it seems to me that if I make these things any more contrasty then they’ll be unrecognizable. Am I missing something here?

    DAVID, the jazz pix are still up at LS; I never bothered to take the gallery down.

    If I missed a question, my apologies; I think I got them all, but you can never be too sure about these things.

  • Whoops, the contrast question shouldnt be where it is in the above; I meant to put it at the very end, so no, Mike, I am not addressing my question solely to you, but to anyone who wants to answer. Thanks again!

  • ALL

    am preparing to be away for a couple of weeks… going finding myself again, hopefully through making images

    will try to report along the way

    just for the record: if any new initiatives become reality in the meantime (DRR – David, 37th FRAME – Pete, follow up for OCTOBER – Herve,… and anything else i missed??), i’m signing up for it all right now… :))

    see ya’round, and love to all

  • tom

    that is enough to put anyone off.. thanks for the thoughts.. great.
    will have a think on a new self portrait.. bit of photoshop may be needed.. i want to be throwing tor up in the air, perhaps in the same spot i was jumping.. and child prtection are tight on these kinds of thing

    KURT has a great eye and obviously the charecter to get close to the most difficult people..
    i just wonder where the stranger is? one or two posts and gone.. maybe the menonites caught up with him..

    tom – been looking at your links again and have to say – for a couple of weeks holiday you really are creaming it in terms of patience and getting the photos.. brilliant really.


    my students built a camera in a few hours.. one got so far as to produce a really excellent negative, which he will now be scanning and making a positive from..
    it’s a rewarding thing to do if you like that sort of thing.. no darkroom needed – just a few dev trays, chemicals and a safe-light..

    still using your reader jean..


    you seem to have a respectful spirit and thats normally rewarded with access.. keep on..


    thanks for the email .. thanks.. you’re priceless and as patricia once said, you walk your talk.. i have such complete confidence in your ability to finish your book.. it’s going to be a stormer..
    i guess everyone on here is coming towards some kind of end in a sense.. projects being tidied up.. books being thouight about.. make it real everyone.. make it something the world cannot take away from you.. surprise yourselves..
    anton – going to reply now.. however.. i hope yourself and everyone going down MEXICO way has the most rewarding time.. enjoy.. work..


    i’ve been on here a lot today.. here’s the reason.. Tor is about the most chilled out person i know.. he could sleep on a bed of nails.. 90% of his day has a soundtrack of ISAN, CINIMATIC ORCHESTRA, PENGUIN CAFE ORCHESTRA and now, today, BEETHOVEN.. and it seems to help him as much as it does me.

    no t.v…
    get rid of t.v.s

  • ERIC, your work just demoralizes me sometimes ;-))) You’re not the only one here who does that to me, and of course in reality i just do it to myself, but you are near the top of the list … and Kyunghee … wow … if, could, one day maybe i just, just touch, brush, feel the strings like that, once …

    Seriously, your work … some of your photos … it’s just, there are a few photos i carry with me all the time in my head, that i cannot forget, that swirl around like an unconcious cloud of mist undefined waiting to be queued up and burst forth like a friend jumping out from behind a tree … surprise! … trumpets and color and light blinding to wake me up as sure as any violence of breaking glass, lifetimes in a fraction of a second … DAH ( wood splittin’ round the corner three-dimensional thirds, hat bench, horse porch, cigar rollin’ over the shoulder, dog tail arm girl, magazine holdin’ peruvian, fish fog, boy through umbrellas, etc), Webb, Towle, Nikos P., Morris, Bendicksen, Parke, Autio (oh Autio!), Stanmeyer, Parr, Majoli, Greenfield, Nachtwey (those scream), D’Agata, Soth, even Soth, more many more, Kyunghee, Erica McDonald’s priest, Panos’ Morrison and girl in RV, Mama Dread’s kids, Bob Black’s dreams, Bowden’s naked backside floating balloon (i find it vaguely disturbing that this photo keeps popping up in my head ;-), more, more … and …
    … so Eric, get that friggin’ bubble gum machine photo out of my head wouldya? You can have it back, seriously, it keeps screwin’ with my ego ;-))))

    Okay that was the sesame bun, here’s the meat …

    I think David may have said something to the effect that you are one of the greatest natural magazine photographer he’s ever seen come through his classes … and that certainly seems true … and this work is spectacular but you already set the bar so high for yourself that it just seems like there is something missing … context maybe … and there were some shots you took out that set that so well i thought. Did I miss those? The runner, the kids coming out of the door, the classic Espinosa slices of light and color and juxtaposition that is both classic DAH and Webb-like but somehow your own at the same time …. it’s like you ran out of steam perhaps … lost your sense of wonder … tried too hard perhaps … or tried to be someone else … your best work is controlled and loose and seemingly “happened upon” even if it isn’t so which just pulls me right into the sense of wonder of the moment right along with you. The space between the camera and subjects is gone … but it is more there in the boxing photos somehow. The look at the camera pictures don’t work for me … there are a couple of exceptions … and looking at your previous work these have the same surface aesthetics but not the same depth to them. It’s really hard to put my finger on … there is a lot of repetition which doesn’t help and too many photos of course but you already know that … this is the rough cut, i know …

    I like the text with a little editing … it’s powerful … but the photos somehow do not convey the power of the text. If, if, and this may not be possible, if you could have just a few photos of home life juxtaposed with the ring, that could change everything I think. Hmmm, what would dyptychs of text and portrait (your chapter headings as it were) followed by home life and in the ring photos intermixed look like? And I’m missing the contextual setting photo … wider shot … and the look down, or away, or exhaustion, or more pain, or more muscle, at least one with negative space, the kids walking to the gym, or away, layers … or all, or none, of these but at least something else, a bigger mix, a broader story … the power of the punch mixed with the quiet of thought, paradoxes and juxtapositions of life for these kids.

    Take all this ramblin’ with a grain of salt my friend … i really do not feel competent to comment on your work but i am just a viewer with an opinion as valid as the next i suppose. I hope i made at least a little sense and it sparks something helpful.

    I’m sure David will be 180 of where I’m at ;-)) It is just so good, it could be so great … i’m such a fan.

  • bowden?

    you remember my arse more than my name..
    jeeese now i worry..



    Thanks to all for having looked at the work and for your kind comments…


    I am certain that using contrasted B&W would certainly work for such a boxing topic but this has been done before and very well by many authors including Larry Fink who David had previously asked me to check. David’s challenge was to do something different, of my own…I am not sure if I have fully succeeded or not in this case but I tried to stick to how I see, and I see in colours… Colours have always attracting my eye… When I first started photography, I could spend hours admiring the work of colour photographers… Interestingly, I started with Steve Mc Curry like “the masses” but rapidly discovered Alex and David and few others who indeed have taken this to a completely new level in my view as well… Bottomline, I think I will stick to colours… For some reason, I cannot see myself do B&W… As far as possibly needing an “edgier” look in my photographs, I can see why you could think this. I may have had other topics that I have done in the past that you may have preferred in that regard… In this particular case, I agree with you that I have used a more “classic” way of doing portraits…. Who knows what is best… Thanks for sharing your thoughts…


    This is hilarious… When I would wish to be remembered by a few good photographs, it looks like my poor english and typos will become more notorious :):):). If I tell you that my mother is teaching litterature in France and has pent her life correcting my typos… I wish this was only my english that needed correcting…. Having said that, the funny thing is that the very first sentence of my boxing essay is actually NOT from me. I was actually planning to indicate this when I have time to redo the first page as the first sentence actually comes from writer Bert Randolph Sugar who wrote a lot about boxing. I need to credit him and add his name to that first sentence but I went back to where I found that sentence and, it IS written exactly the way I captured it with the exception of the typo I did on “fists”… If writers do not even speak good english, I am losing by the minute any hope of getting there myself :):):)…

    Anyway, thanks so much for taking the time to go through the text in such details and letting me know what typos etc I have made… Now clearly, the fact that my portraits “maestro” Erica has commented about my english and not my photographs makes me think that she may agree with Herve :):):)…. If only I am able to get a few portraits as good as the ones of Erica, I will be a happy man!!!! Challenging task I know… cannot wait to see your essay!!!!



  • ANTON~

    Through your spirit of adventure you will find another piece of yourself & create many spectacular images in Mexico…your style…dark… with the mystery of ancestors abound is sure to be a sensational match….Have a great time!

    It would be fun to see you again! Do a shot of Tequila for me… if I were there we would do several…


  • eric

    o ;pve the colours and textures equily in your work..
    one question – have you tried looking at the current photos in black and white?
    it does not need to be a changed to consider for any final show – just for fun..
    i changed my music work into black and white to edit (so it opens faster on my computer) and some of the photos have surprised me..

    i think, in a sense, you shoot black and white already – in so far as what you seek our photographically could easily be shown in either way.. a good photograph is a good photograph in my book, and while a change would change the feel of a photo, it will remain a good photo whichever way it is shown..

    some photographers say they think in black and white or colour depending upon what they are shooting.. although i’ve always just thought about good photos.. regardless.

    personally – i prefer colour for your work..
    and mine.

  • David B. … you know i’m half-jokin’ right? … yes, well, child services, i understand, which reminds me of the somewhat famous ballad of u.s. hobo troubadour Utah Phillips, “It’s Only a Wee Wee So What’s All the Fuss.”

    Thanks for your comment on my photos from Greece … i’m still not close to where i want to be in general but i do improve, unwind a little more all the time, a bit slow, still fractured … “doing” and “thinking” all the right things, i think, but still searching for my voice, exploring … perhaps i will find more coherence as i go through my photos from Greece. I’m letting them sit awhile.

    tom :)))

  • eric

    first sentance needs to start ‘i love’ and not ‘o ;pve’… i’m typing in the dark..


    one thing i have learn’t about being a photographer is that a kind heart and being who you are goes a long long way.. the furthest way, in truth..
    with that in mind i want to share something about ANTON..
    his kind heart has led him to find a small gift for Tor, my newborn.. and it’s really touched both beate and i..

    DAH ???????? >>>> (? to get your attention)
    push uncle anton HARD.. he’s a real talent.. a real gem of a soul.. and he has eyes which work..

  • ERIC~

    I mentioned to you before that your photography was compelling and that you are very modest about your work…still think you need to change your bio again…it looks to me like you have gone much deeper recently with the limited time that you have.

    I agree with all the great things people have said and also echo that you need to take some images away…it is all there and eliminating some will only make the body stronger.

    Stunning… absolutely stunning images!!!
    Love the title too…


  • David Bowen, yes, well, ahhhemm, sorry about that! … laughing at myself …. i owe you a pint …

  • tom.. i’ll remember that..
    next time you’re coming to europe give us some notice..
    if i’m over there in may i’ll let you know..

    greece.. great work..

  • hillary

    thought i’d click your site and i really like some of your work.. the splas page (children underwater) is ace.. great.

    your website though – the formatting is coming out wrong on my browser.. firefox.. the thumbnails accross the bottom are fine, it’s the images in the main frame – they are cut in half and at the lower half of the page..

    wondering – how did you make your site? is it with photoshops web application? (i used that as a template for mine)..
    if so there may be an easy way of showing the work..

    anyone else have and ideas?
    all my ‘geek’ is taken up with photos and i have no spare brain cells for web unfortunately.

  • ERIC.

    Amazing work. To think that you have a career on top of this is hard to believe. You must really be putting in the hours on this…so many great new images.

    Editing is gonna be tough but I have one piece of advice when you do a final edit….take it or leave it… There are a couple images where the background was a bit distracting around the boxers head. Most of your backgrounds are “full” which I love… in most cases even when there is a lot going on around the head there is no problem. However, your third image for example…the shadow is amazing but since the sky is so blue that black line is a little bothersome FOR ME…maybe it doesn’t bother you or anyone else. Just something to possibly think about.

    I don’t recall but imagine sound is something that has been suggested? It can be overused but in small amounts could add another dimension to this project.

    Good job!!!

  • ERIC, don’t let the English thing get you down! English is easy: put the noun first, then the verb, then the object of the sentence. Go light on the adverbs and the adjectives; write in short, easily understood sentences using the nouns and verbs to drive the point you want to make home before her parents find out that she’s not at her friend’s house doing their homework and avoid the passive voice as if it were the plague. And never, NEVER, put an i before the e except after c. If you do not adhere to this rule, a nun will appear out of nowhere and hit you with her ruler. Trust on that one; I know. Do I actually follow any of the advice I have just given you? Not really, except for the passive voice thing and the i before e rule. And remember, discreet and discrete sound the same but do not mean the same thing. They are not interchangeable, despite the best efforts of MS Word’s spellchecker.

  • ERIC!!!

    I am just very busy so I didn’t allow myself to look at the images yet..I just wanted to help with the text so it didn’t distract anyone from what I KNOW are powerful (wham!) photos..head down, will be days and days and days for me..will look as soon as I of good faith!

  • Wow it has been a long time since I have posted, the tides shifted a little and I went back to observing and reading more so than posting.

    To respond to David’s question, I think for me there is obligatory shooting, sometimes the best paying jobs are the least interesting and its balance, like David mentions, that keeps everything in perspective. Even though a job may not be that interesting, its the approach that can keep it interesting. I really enjoy working with people and since I am a people photographer, not a product, most of what I shoot is pretty enjoyable. When thats not enough, personal work is here to the rescue, reminding me why I shoot.

    I did a 6 month internship at a newspaper as a photographer, and that was the most trying for me because you dont always pick your assignments and you dont have the choice to turn it down like you do when you are a freelancer. I remember feeling really run over at times, shooting bad assignments, some how making good images from it, and then having an editor publish the worst of the take while giving me a very unconvincing reason to their decision. In the end it was a wonderful experience, pushing me forward visually, so I guess thats the balance or trade off. Maybe the idea of balance comes down to attitude and approach or the ability to walk away with something??

  • David B.~

    Thanx for checking out my site & for your comment…

    I use a host called Visual Server created by Rixon Reed at Photoeye in Santa Fe, NM.

    I don’t have that problem with the images on my Mac in either Safari or Firefox but I have seen it come out that way on other friends computers that have a smaller screen. Thanks for reminding me I will call and let them know…

    If you click to the enlarge the photos, the full image comes through.


  • David,

    I knew you You knew I was still out here !
    Sometimes I’m not sure if I am : )

    A year since BKK, Its amazing it all still seems so fresh on one
    hand and so very far away on the other.

    Below is a link to a small selection of new work.
    I have deliberately kept the edit very tight.

    I am starting a new project soon based here in Tasmania I will have some images from that shortly.

    All good things,



    Photo Eye is around the corner from my house :))

    I’ve been getting the Breitenbush catalog for years. Maybe I saw a photo of you in there? Or some you took? How cool that you lived there. Do you know Jerry Jones by chance? He is a good friend of Breitenbush. I met him in India. Or Gangaji?

    Saw your comment about Doug Beasley, who teaches here in Santa Fe. I’ve also noticed that he teaches there.

  • David Brown, Guilty as charged I have been lurking in the background.
    As for the Mennonites I am afraid that story has crashed and burned.
    I made some major mistakes and learned a great bit about humility along the way. I also managed to meet some wonderful Mennonite friends. Unfortunately I single handily managed to upset an entire community of very gentle piece loving people. Though this was 180 out from my intentions, that was the out come.
    All my life I have hoped my photography could bring some good to a community, such as Eugean Smiths Nurse Midwife piece on Maude Callen, that resulted in a new clinic for her, or Bill Allards photo of a young boy with his entire sheep herd being killed by wayward truck resulting in enough donations for a new school. I sure did not expect it to end with a knock on my door at one in the morning from a Sheriff Deputy stating that I was to leave the community alone. It was at that point that I knew I had crossed the line, not so much as the law was concerned but as the trust of the people. These people only wanted to be left alone and I should have respected that.
    I am including a link to a piece I did On the Archie Edwards Blues Heritage Foundation. I like to call it the Barber Shop of Blues. Archie Edwards was a Barber in Washington DC. Up until his death in 1998. During the Blues revival of the 1960’s he was just on the fringe of making it big. He had a respectable following around Washington, but never quite made it as big as he should of.
    As the story goes on Saturday’s when the clock reached 1 in the afternoon, the cutting shears would disappear, out would come the guitars, along with a brew or two. It was at this time Archie would pass down to a enter new generation, his knowledge of the Piedmont Blues.
    After Archie passed a group of devoted followers started the Archie Edwards Blues Heritage Foundation, and the managed to keep the Saturday jam session alive until early this year. Unfortunately they lost the lease, and a Dental office no resides in the former home of the Archie Edwards Blues Heritage Foundation.
    The foundation still exists but without a home I am not sure how long it can keep going.
    Here is the link as always comments welcome.

  • CATHY~

    Yes, I have given my photos to Breitenbush over the years for their web & newsletter and will continue to do so…

    Both J Jones & Gangaji have held workshops while I was there, never took any of them, so I can’t say that I know them…

    Only have good things to say about Doug Beasley…Most of the students in his class at BB were beginners or those trying to get back in touch with their photography on a deeper, soulful level.


  • TOM,

    Many many thanks for your in-depth comments that I have just read. Even more valuable to me Tom because you clearly have looked at some of my past photos and were able to compare, provide guidance as to what you see missing… I just hope that I will, over time, be able to stick a few more shots in your head… I am already glad :):) that this “friggin’ bubble gum machine” photo is not getting out of your head :):)….

    Also great that you remember some of the previous shots that were taken away such as the runner, the kids coming out of the door etc… and thanks for the comment of “classic Espinosa slices of light and color and juxtaposition”… Not that this is an excuse for me but let me tell you a little about the journey and this may explain why the final pictures selected may be somewhat different vs past work … As you know, I love the light and colour juxtaposition. I usually always go for that late afternoon natural light with shawdows etc… I was only able to shoot once in similar conditions for that essay… one day, surprisingly, the boxers went out of the gym to run and the light was magical…. there are several pictures that I did that day that I care very much for but I only kept one (the opening close-up portrait). When David and I looked at the full set of pictures I had back in Perpignan and we started to lay these out on the table… somehow, the few more distant pictures with my “usual” light and shawdows did not seem to come from the same essay and, somehow, we rapidly converged to take these out… maybe we should have kept some…who knows…

    To be frank, there were also some additional factors/ points that influenced the way I shot that essay, which again may have made it look less “typical” for me. First, the 2 to 3 gyms where I have been going really have nothing special as a building or environment. With exception of one, the two gyms I have gone to are very small, very poor artificial light, a modern building without much past or history (not like Gleason gym in New York), small un-interesting places really without much ability to construct more complex images. The real interesting part are the people that go and train there… Naturally, as I was not finding much to photograph what I typically go for, I started to get closer and closer and closer to the boxers at the gym… Let me tell you that, as I shoot with 24 mm lense, I got real close in some cases :):)…. But bottomline, what started to really interest me was these kids, their faces that look like the one of my 6 years old son but at the same time already look like the ones of adults with their nose, lips already showing that they have taken a few hits… I found those faces moving, beautiful and rapidly felt that this was the angle I was going to follow and again, it seemed to make sense when we talked with David… Final point that influenced me… when I started to initially show these pictures of juxtaposition of light, shadows etc, David at the very start also challenged me to go beyond that, probably because he had seen many similar images from me. He pushed me to show how I felt about these kids, why I was interested into boxing… again, all in all, this pushed me to focus on these kids, their look etc as opposed to doing “pure” imagery type of work… So you may say that I have left myself being influenced here as opposed to shoot with my own style… I would answer maybe but I stand by the direction we took together when talking with David (although I am sure he will probably agree on many of the points that you shared). Overall, this essay is indeed somewhat different, but I wanted to explore something different, get into more closer portraits which is something I really had not done… I promise I will not only do this from now on and will do some more “juxtaposition”, if only to stick these dawm pictures in your head :):):).

    The final point that you made on the text is so true I think. I had shot most of my pictures when I started to record the voices of these boxers, talk about their life etc. Let me tell you that it was amazing how they are opening up and what they are sharing. So yes, I agree, in many instances, some of the quotes may seem going way beyond the photographs which were taken before…I had no idea sometimes what they were going to share and say. I am totally useless for doing a MM piece but I will learn. A few of the conversation I have had are real “jewels” and there is no way I know how to share these yet. These conversations have made me want to shoot more, show something that speaks more to what they shared….

    So, apologies for the long answer Tom. Bottomline, I have not tried to be anyone different but certainly tried to push myself into a slightly different direction for that piece of work.

    Thanks again for the quality of your assessment.



  • CATHY,

    The sound is certainly in the plan. I was just writing to Tom that I have several hours of tapes, sounds, audio that I have recorded in the gym. Just need to learn now how to integrate this…I said this befoe and it is true…technology is not my friend so patience here will be key!!!!


    I promise to change my bio :):):).


    I wish you were my english teacher :):)!

    Many thanks to all of you for all your comments. It makes it so worth it to have you look at the work.


  • ERIC – Great work Dude! Most of my thoughts have been covered in previous posts , The kids are great , but sometimes I get the feling as I scroll through that I’m just seeing the same photo at times but I’m thinking that those older Guys have the faces that tell the story of boxing ,those tragic dreams that fuel a hard way to live.
    Have you ever been smacked about in the ring yourself?

  • David Bowen–Thanks for pimping my OBX surf project for me–check’s in the mail..:) and congrats again on the little one…

    DAH has been chilling/working hard down here on the OBX…he just left this afternoon, so maybe he’ll get back to the blog soon.

    Eric E–Killer, Killer work. ’nuff said. Great color, great light, great intensity. Good writing too.

    Paul Treacy–thanks as always for your compliments. I’m definitely a “color” guy, but his particular project has always been monochrome in my imagination. Even so, I actually started processing the project in color because I was too afraid to change my ways, and I was kind of nonplussed about the whole thing until I started converting some selected shots to monochrome. Then the whole thing started to come alive for me. There’s a lot of stuff in the “Sketches of Summer” post that I kept in color, but there is something about this place that just begs to be rendered in sepia tones…Especially on days like today, when the wind is howling out of the northeast and ocean, sky, and sand are all wrapped up in a vicious dance of shifting chiaroscuro tones…

    Please, all, have a look, I finally got my wordpress issues fixed so the lightbox in my blog works properly:

    The photos really look best at much higher resolutions, but the web is the web. I’m looking forward to making some huge-ass prints though:)

    DAH, you stole my post title (“Surf’s Up)! And the waters here aren’t shark-“infested”….just occasionally “sharky”…:) Just don’t go swimming with chum in your shorts!!

    As for Gayle Tiller, I could tell you some stories…We call her “Hurricane Gayle” because when she walks into a room it kind of feels like a hurricane is sweeping through. When she has her daughters in tow, it’s even more intense. You’ve never seen a happier bunch of girls, laughing and grinning from ear to ear all the time…She and her two oldest girls made a surprise visit to a little going-away cookout we were having last weekend for my friend Shane and suddenly our mellow little get-together turned into a full-on party. She’s a fantastic portrait photographer and she’s working all the time, but she never sweats it, nor does she sweat raising three kids alone. She takes it all in stride and always seems like she’s having a blast. You can check out her work at….

    Bob B and Patricia, thanks for the good words. Patricia, loved your essay. The most poignant part for me was how you felt some resentment towards your husband for not getting past the denial stage fast enough, and his difficulty in dealing with your difficulties. That speaks volumes about relationships…patience and commitment are things I respect so much in others who have really paid their dues in long-term relationships. Sometimes it seems unfathomable to me, the strength that must require…

    Vote for Obama,

    chris b

  • ERIC

    I know you said you were going to ask Tom to advise you about incorporating your audio interviews into a MM piece, and I’m sure he knows WAY more about it than I, but let me share with you what I’ve just started using. It’s MM software called FotoMagico that allows you to create slideshows using audio (any mp3). It is VERY user friendly especially if you also buy & download the tutorial. I first learned about it here on the blog. The URL is

    Good luck! You have a fabulous body of work and I can really see and hear it being even stronger with the voices of the boxers incorporated into it.


    I feel
    Bad I forgot about you..!
    Another maestro ( regarding color )..
    You are..!


    Thanks for the advice…I wiill certainly look at it. By the way Patricia, I am still catching up and just read the text that goes along with your essay. Very moving Patricia. I hope we have a chance to meet sometimes. You radiate with positive energy. It is great to have you here!!!


  • Kurt, Thanks for telling us honestly the story of how the Mennonite story ended, it must have felt like one of the least shining moments in your life, but as they say, it happens to the best of us, and if you wish, tell us if you’d proceed differently now, or is it a lost cause? Any warning signs you should have heeded?

    The sheriff at 1AM….. Ouch…. You’re not gonna forget this one soon!

  • KURT

    I’m so sorry to hear that things turned sour with the Mennonites. They’re such private people that it somehow doesn’t surprise me. I suspect it had less to do with you and more to do with intra-community dissension over the advisability of allowing a photographer access to their families, especially their children. But I will not soon forget some of the images you shared with us from that series. They were quite special.

    I love your Archie Edwards Blues Heritage Foundation jam series! I’d seen it before but found it even richer this time. I saw and felt more in it on a second viewing. For me image #14 stands out as the iconic heart of it all. Such soul!!!

    Please stay here as an active member. You have much to offer us.



    The first image in your new project just stopped me in my tracks. It is almost otherworldly. I can’t get it out of my head. Bravo!


  • ALL…

    ALEC SOTH just asked what is the recipe for a successful blog…

    i logged in, i politely answered : come visit our blog here…
    witness our freedom… we are uncensored , honest and lots of fun…

    .. and of course.. as you expected… they censored my comment,
    they threw it in the garbage…

    they said… your post needs approval…????????

    Approval?????? by whom??????
    whats so fucking threatening ?????
    the truth , maybe……..

    people, ALL,
    please help me out… go to the magnum blog,
    and explain to them… “TELL IT LIKE IT IS”
    god damn it… tell’em… because they just asked…

  • Panos, all posts on the Magnum site are awaiting approval from the photographer whose entry they are assigned to. Your post was not censored…

    Another question is : can a blog be too successful? ;-)

  • …Herve,
    i hear you.. but how can you be spontaneous and free spirited
    when you you are WAITING FOR APPROVAL ?????
    such a joke………!!!!!!!!
    Wasnt Soth that got overwhelmed by his own blog and shut it down????
    Why so interested in a blog success… now??? a year later ???
    what happened now????
    such a joke…

    my opinion:
    people stop copying us… laughing…
    or better… know what????
    yeah… keep copying us…
    People are DESPERATELY trying to do what we did…
    THEY ARE TRYING TO START… what we are about to FINISH…
    sooooooooo funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • as SNOOP DOGG once said…:

    “…. when I’m Done with It… you are about to Start with It..”

    … who would expect that Snoop was a philosopher..?

    SHO NUFF..

  • … i’m sorry , i meant A PROPHET,
    not just a PHILOSOPHER…?

    …”what would you do to make the blog successful ???? …”

    what a joke !!!!!!!!

    i would say call AKAKY, BOB & HERVE to begin with…

  • … next thing you know…
    NatGeo is having a contest trying to discover the next great “blogger”…
    laughing again…

    is blogging the next big thing?
    is blogging the future of photography?????

    … but i hear you… i shouldnt be so sarcastic with the people that “follow” us..
    Herve , who would expect that we are A YEAR
    AHEAD in the blogosphere ???????

    and it feels good!
    (am i the only one that is so competitive around here…?)
    hmmmm, lets see…

    ( in the meantime 2 hours later and my comment is still waiting to be approved in
    the magnum site…what a great way to promote a conversation… it needs a year to finish a thought over there….)


    You have a point about waiting for approval over there on the Magnum blog… bloggus interruptus is no fun…

    But, don’t you think they could (and should) have a kick-ass blog over there and wouldn’t that be great for all of us?

  • Eric, you are all class. Thank you for sharing that and I understand motivations/decisions, excellent thoughts … wish I knew something about multimedia but just starting reeducation camp :)) Great you are working on this … I was incredibly impressed with Kelly Lynn James piece on swimming btw. I know you’re going to knock it out of the park :))

    … And it’s not just the bubblegum machine … :)))


  • Panitos, I get you, yet we have been spoiled here, DAH blog is not the norm for such craft as photography.

    I doubt anyone can duplicate what has been happening here, warts and all. The magazine won’t. Something else, altogether.

  • yes… 100% MIKE…
    but look how desperate they are counting numbers…
    why do i have a weird feeling that WE are
    having wayyy more visitors in a photo blog???
    because we are LOOSE, HONEST,
    no money oriented…
    we sell nothing…..
    i love magnum ( at least its obvious in my mind )… im not a separatist…
    DAH is more MAGNUM than any MAGNUM…
    i just find the question of how to make a
    “successful” blog… RIDICULOUS..

    i just gave the answer….
    call AKAKY…
    again …
    how can you have a real, live, honest conversation if you HAVE TO APPROVE COMMENTS??( and wait couple of months???
    in the meantime we forgot what we were talking about …)
    Do we need to apply for a “green card”
    APPROVAL… the opposite of REJECTION…

    oh i see… freedom of speech means …
    i APPROVE whatever suits me and makes me look good…

    ok.. i will cut them some slack…
    lets blame it on the demon of INSECURITY…

    … but why everyone needs to have a blog when they dont respect the basic “truth” of what a blog is…? freedom to think and respond as fast as you think…???

    Dont have a blog then if you cant HANDLE IT..
    have a newspaper … something you can control…
    Dont do BOOZE if you have a WEAK stomach…
    thats all im saying…
    just trying to be honest…
    to be able to post ????

  • why do they have to CHEW on our bone if they have no TEETH???

    sorry mr. Soth you are way too HYPOCRITICAL
    for my taste…
    ( again, didnt you fail in your blog last year??? why messing with the same stuff again??? what did you change in the meantime…?)

    Let me tell you what changes have you done:

    again, dont sit on the table IF YOU BRINGING NOTHING TO IT…

  • again, ALL , im not attacking Magnum..
    ( that would be retarded… )
    im a little annoyed by Soth’s fucking question…
    he acts like he dont know what A REAL , GREAT
    BLOG IS….
    when was the last time he honored us with his
    enlightened presence here… NEVER…

    … fucking ELITISTS…
    acting like you are a HOMMIE…
    no you’re not hommie bro…
    sorry , you’re not…

  • … but i know… there is no instant money to be made here… no cash…
    why waste HIS time with us… why help us…
    who cares about a bunch of dreamers , idealistc idiots like us…

    let me tell HIM who cares…

    in case you didnt notice mr….

    … DAH cares….
    now try to prove the photo world that you care too…
    c’mon malaka…
    give it a try…
    PROVE ME WRONG !!!!! ( if you can )
    or better IGNORE ME !!! ( if you can’t )

    love you ALL…
    i had no idea how strong we are…

    “the monogamous blogger”


    … ( fighting a migraine right now )…

    LETTER TO MY “BEST” FRIEND… ( to one that listens to me tonight )

    so funny… (actually not funny at all)…

    im in a room that does not belong to me…
    i was till a minute ago in a bed that does not belong to me…
    i was trying to sleep next to someone that does not really “feels” me…
    although the opposite was told…
    have you ever been blamed about anything while you were absent ??
    or unaware???
    it hurts….
    have you ever been hated because of a bad dream… of a fucking bad dream…?
    have noticed that people confuse “addiction” with love ???????
    have you ever been “loved” just because some people cant stand to be alone?
    have you ever mislead to believe that people need YOU, when they actually
    really need just ANYBODY ?????

    ….. have you ever rejected a pretty normal steady job just to keep yourself free
    and available???? have you ever felt that drugs or love isnt working????
    Shooting pictures, finding a cause ( when there is actually none )…
    trying to make something to believe when there is actually nothing out there to believe to??
    i feel alone and abused tonight … abused and unloved in the “house of love”…?????

    i probably do pictures because there is nothing left for me out there…
    if im an artist, im a bad one.. but i dont mind because i have no choice…
    i shoot photos , otherwise i will shoot myself , literally…
    i dont know what to do or what i want to do… everytime i dream
    i set myself for a failure… i dont wanna dream anymore.. i cant..
    i also have NO HOPE… i stopped hoping or expecting,
    long long time ago… thats why i feel free to be honest and talk my opinion..
    anytime, anywhere… because i dont hope to be liked or even accepted…
    people have always been threatened by this behavior…and they dont hesitate to threaten me back…
    threats like.. natgeo or magnum or this or that will not give YOU a job.. you are an asshole…
    you are a dummie…you are an idiot…

    but honestly FRIEND, there is not much future in my case…
    it doesnt seem like it..
    im not gonna lie to you… i would love to be known as an artist after my death…
    but im not gonna let myself dream about it either…
    shooting photos is THERAPY for me… i cant afford a shrink or any other “pro” help…
    really … my camera , thats all thats left in my weaponry…
    my camera… the only way to resist and protect myself from going crazy…….
    thank you for the questions… appropriate time also…
    im ready to be kicked out from the “house of love”… once more……….
    i hope you are feeling better than i do…
    my fucking “odyssey” just begun… again….
    camera for a COMPASS……..
    my heart is crying right now…
    i hope you can hear it!!!!!
    peace & hugs

  • panos

    i’m listening bro…


  • me too. And I even understand you well. Somehow.

  • Me too, Panos.
    I understand you more than you might think possible.

  • kurt

    nice one.. shame about the Mennonites.. the blues thing is good.. can you still photo it? i kind of want to see more of the lives of people who go there.. wonder about the longest standing members who are keeping it alive?


    good to know my 12.5% is sorted.. :o)

    welcome to freelance photography :o)
    it is a very tough path to follow, and without the benefits of workmates, as with musicians or actors, the loneliness of ‘the road’ bites much more than most – perhaps even you – know..
    the monotone and balance presented by many photographers words conceal just what you are detailing.. and more.. loose a house to it.. loose a relationship.. spend ALL of your time away from friends and family.. isolation.. poor.. tolerate the industry you apply your photography to.. challange people who steal from you.. see more than most.. see more..
    caught in thought-circles on long journeys without the escape of companionship to bounce the idea’s off..
    there is little more pathetic than crying in a hotel room thousands of miles away from anyone who cares.
    pieces of life.. moments to take home and organize into a life.. a way of representing yourself without words as, perhaps, words are not your thing.
    the rewards are worth it or they are not.. for me they are.. and for many they are..
    music photographer, friend and college Giles killed himself early 2007.. it does happen panos, so please – try not to dwell on that here.. whatever you feel right now, it could get a lot more challenging..
    all i know is that when i got what i wanted it was tougher than i could have imagined, more interesting than i could have dream’t and more difficult, socially, financially.. personally.. than i’d been taught..

    on blogs.. i don’t really think this is a blog.. davids blog posts are minimal compared to the responses and conversation, so it’s a forum.. and a great one.
    good blogs have a lot more photos.. like this one :o)

  • i mean.. why ‘my fucking oddessy’

    joni mitchell..
    Every picture has its shadows
    And it has some source of light
    Blindness, blindness and sight
    The perils of benefactors
    The blessings of parasites
    Blindness, blindness and sight
    Threatened by all things
    Devil of cruelty
    Drawn to all things
    Devil of delight
    Mythical devil of the ever-present laws
    Governing blindness, blindness and sight


    No don’t you go thinking like that, OK… I have lost too many people over the last few years…

    There is something invaluable that you do, you speak your mind and I respect that more than a lot of self congratulatory back slapping…

    Don’t worry I have made a load of erm, not enemies really, but definitely a load of people that really don’t like being around me…

    And I don’t give a shit either, its important to be true to yourself… and when you figure out how to say all that stuff thats going on inside in a way that causes other people to go, yep I know what he means, then well you know you are not actually alone…

    I mean I am on the other side of the world going, yep I know exactly what PANOS means…

    So you are not alone at all, I think loads of people reading this blog probably get it, but just are not quite brave enough to yet to tell everyone to go get F*&^#3D!!!

    Besides you must know by now, I think every girl reading this has a big crush on you!!!!

    So as we say in the world of bastardized English from Australia- ‘Give yerself an uppercut and wake up t’yerself”!

    Love you bro…


    Love the surf life work on your blog. Really nice work.

    Actually I love it all.

    Any objections to me linking to the Cresent City Blues from The 37th Frame?

    Also, what are you using for the lightbox effect. I may like to incorporate that in The 37th Frame.


  • PANOS:

    WITH YOU…listening…

    sent you an email….


  • Panos,

    I don’t know you too well and I like you. You take charge of the room. You learn quickly, ask questions, always asking questions. You have passion, a sense of humour, a quirky intelligence, a complexity of personality. One hundred and fifty miles an hour…barely but still in control…on the edge.

    As for the current situation: this too shall pass.

    Carry on…



    exactly..this too shall pass..till then, Panos, do the therapy, go shoot…

    ANTON / all OAXACAites

    have a wonderful trip and a journey to remember..we are waiting to see where you went..and what you brought back

  • KURT, been there … it’s a tough deal to be sure but it’s a tough subject, to wade into a culture like that that is inherently closed, and removed by design, without having the context to wade through the complexities of their society. That you were able to do what you did, and extremely well, is a testament to your abilities … very few have done it, and done it well. And man, the subjects you choose would be the subjects i would choose … great work … keep on keeping on and more will certainly happen.

    The power of serendipity is in the doing, the commitment, the taking of chances, the risk, putting it all there knowing there is a good chance for failure … and just doing it anyway :)))

    keep on keeping on … and share … love your eye :))),

  • /\ spot on from young tom..

    the tihng that strikes me KURT is that you did it.. in the moment.. you saw opportunity and you gently eased in.. at the time – in the moment – you did the job.

    there will always be people after the event who may raise problems.. whatever we shoot..
    acting in the moment.. being aware of opportunity.. that really works..

    we’re trying to drag you into the blog.. you know?

    fresh meat..


    With you as well….what got me was the time delay….Alec was here in Lexington and gone before I knew it….

  • Panos, there is much power in challenge too :))) The most dangerous guy in the room is the one who feels he has nothing to lose … people fear that, try to put it down, build boxes and stuff sacks and try to cram round pegs in square holes … instead of trying to understand … to understand would be to see, and most people just do not want to see. Be proud you are round in a room full of squares!!! :)))

    And then there’s the advice the old grizzled newspaper veteran told me when i had just pissed off a whole town … he asked me, was the story the truth? … to which i said yes … And he smiled and said, you ain’t bad Hyde but nobody’s got a corner on the truth … was the story accurate, he asked … and i said, hell yes … then, he said, sometimes you just have to say fuck ’em.

    Panos, you’re doing great important things with Venice Beach, catching the last of the real, the true grit, in a bottle against time before the whole place is wall-to-wall condos and completely gentrified … coming very, very soon i understand … put all you got there man, it’s a great American story unfolding and time is short. It is happening everywhere … the world is flattening and WalMart is king … Venice Beach is an allegory for all the wonderfully funky American diversity being laid to waste. All the rest for you is just trivial … who gives a crap … you got some history to write and YOU are the only one who can do it! Show me more!

    peace, tom

  • PANOS, I see your comment over on the Magnum blog, so I’m not sure what this is all about. Thank you, however, for mentioning me; I strongly suspect that this is the only way I’d ever get onto the Magnum site. Well, maybe not; there is one other way this could have happened.

    SCENE: West 79th Street. A warm day in the early spring of 1947. A bench along the wall with Central Park. Young Akaky sits on the bench, getting ready to eat his pretzel. His feet hurt, his neck hurts, and his trusty Speed Graphic is having some kind of shutter issue. But the day is almost over and he will go home soon. When suddenly a hurricane approaches…

    AKAKY: No, you can’t have money, I don’t care how good the horse is. I’m tired of supporting your bookie.

    CAPA: And who asked you for money, my friend? No one. I came to see how you are.

    AKAKY: Of course you did. What’s up? How’s the Hollywood gig going?

    CAPA [sits on bench]: Uninteresting. Anyone interesting in Hollywood left years ago. How are you?

    AKAKY: Not bad. The competition isn’t as bad now that Weegee is out in Hollywood making a movie.

    CAPA: He is? Who would make a movie about him?

    AKAKY: Who the hell knows? I hope they give him enough to buy his own flash bulbs. I’m tired of that guy mooching them off me.

    CAPA: Enough of this witty badinage. I have idea—

    AKAKY: No.

    CAPA: You haven’t heard the idea yet.

    AKAKY: All your ideas cost me money.

    CAPA: Listen to idea first, then say no.

    AKAKY: Fair enough. It’s your quarter, start talking.
    CAPA: Nickel.

    AKAKY: What?

    CAPA: It’s 1947, phone calls are still a nickel.

    AKAKY: Oh. Sorry, didn’t mean to be anachronistic there.

    CAPA: Be quiet and listen, okay? Es una cosa muy seria. I have idea for photographers’ cooperative. We would control our own copyrights, own our own negatives, we would make the money we are giving away to editors now.

    AKAKY: You’re kidding, right? Who’ll go along with such a dumb idea?

    CAPA: I have Cartier Bresson, Chim, George Rodger, and Bill Vandivert—

    AKAKY: Who?

    CAPA: Bill Vandivert.

    AKAKY: Never heard of him.

    CAPA: He’s at LIFE magazine.

    AKAKY [shrugging shoulders]: If you say so, I still haven’t heard of him. My guess is he’ll never get his picture on a chair.

    CAPA: Whatever—

    AKAKY: And does Rodger even know that he’s in your group of photographic Don Quixotes? Last I heard, he was wandering around Africa doing whatever is people do when they wander around Africa. Probably being attacked by swarms of mosquitoes and tsetse flies and not so much as a can of DDT anywhere in sight. There’s nothing that’ll make you appreciate the Luftwaffe as much as a swarm of mosquitoes trying to drain you dry and give you malaria at the same time.

    CAPA: We are losing the point here.

    AKAKY: Sorry. I go off on tangents that won’t support my weight. You were saying something I was going to say no to, right?

    CAPA: Exactly. The cooperative I am speaking of, we formed it the other day—

    AKAKY: Talk about fly by night. Where’d all of this happen?

    CAPA: At the Metropolitan.

    AKAKY: You formed a photography collective at an opera? What was playing, Rigoletto?

    CAPA: Dear Akaky Akakyevich, stop being so thick. At the Metropolitan Museum of Art. And why Rigoletto?

    AKAKY: It was the only opera I could think of at such short notice. What’s this epic misadventure of yours called, assuming it has a name?

    CAPA: Magnum.

    AKAKY: You named a picture agency after a pistol?

    CAPA: No, stupid, after a bottle of champagne. And we want to know—

    AKAKY: No.

    CAPA: No what? I haven’t asked you anything yet.

    AKAKY: This is the part where you ask me for money to join this misbegotten adventure of yours, isn’t it?

    CAPA: Yes.

    AKAKY: Then the answer is still no.

    CAPA: But don’t you want to control your fate, your negatives? Why should you give your work to the capitalists and they keep making money off of your work and you get paid next to nothing for it?

    AKAKY: Hey, lay off that capitalist thing. I’m a Republican, remember?
    CAPA: My dear Akaky, I know this and I do my best not to hold it against you. Let me ask you this: don’t YOU want to make more money off the pictures you shoot?

    AKAKY: Sure I would.

    CAPA: Well, there you are, a capitalist and we will help you be an even bigger capitalist. You will get to keep your copyrights and you will get to keep even more of your money. What’s so wrong with this?

    AKAKY: Nothing, I guess. How much would it cost me to get into Magnum, and I’m not saying yes to anything here, understand?

    CAPA: Three hundred dollars.

    AKAKY: Are you frigging crazy? I don’t have $300!

    CAPA: My dear Akaky, you do have the money. I talked to your mother the other day. She says you are doing well, my friend, very well indeed. And you can always sell your car. It is old, and I must be honest, Akaky, no one drives Model T’s anymore. It is embarrassing to see you in that thing.

    AKAKY: It works.

    CAPA: So do your intestines and who wants to see that either? So you are in, yes?

    AKAKY [sighs deeply, knowing he will have to submit to the inevitable]: If I give you the money, will you go away?

    CAPA: Of course not.

    AKAKY: I didn’t think so. Okay, I’ll have to get to the bank tomorrow.

    CAPA: Dear boy, welcome to Magnum. [hugs Akaky]

    AKAKY: Yeah yeah yeah, there’s three hundred bucks I’ll never see again.

    CAPA: By the way, do you have five bucks? My bookie says there is sure thing running in the fourth race at Santa Anita tomorrow.

    AKAKY: Jesus, why do I even bother? [pulls $5 out of his pocket and gives it to Capa] You know this Magnum thing is going nowhere, right?

    CAPA: Nonsense, Akaky, nonsense. You wait and see. It will be big, big, I tell you.

    AKAKY: Yeah, right. Tell me another one.


    If shooting is your therapy, what is editing for you?

    I find it to be one of the things that makes me crazy!

    After shooting do you notice that you are happy for a couple of hours/days????

    Shooting Therapy really or is it the cause of the insanity?

    -={ ( .)_(. ) }=-

  • “If shooting is your therapy, what is editing for you?”

    It is the same moment when you have to pay to shrink.

  • After shooting do you notice that you are happy for a couple of hours/days????

    Oh, that’s an old S. Pailin quote!


    Busy week, ‘later….


    (A few days ago I finally got to see the slide show from the Loft Workshop 2, and after watching it several times I sent Kyunghee Lee an email in Korean. Here is part of the response she sent back to me, translated from Korean, because I know she has no time to write here in English but wants very much to acknowledge everyone’s attention and praise for her work):

    “… And I don’t know how to thank you for your generous praise for my work. At any rate, in New York this time as well, I just walked around taking pictures with a whimsical heart, just as I have done in ordinary places. If I saw a bookstore, I went in and bought a book, I went into a shop selling clothes and did some shopping for my children, etc. while I was shooting (ha ha ha!)…

    “I don’t get worked up or stressed when I am taking pictures. People say, if you see my facial expression when I am taking pictures, I am always smiling and it looks like I am happy. :)))
    Anyway, thank you all so much!

    “I feel really apologetic towards all the friends on DAH’s blog. If I try to read all the postings, it really takes me such a long time, and it takes a lot of effort to look at everyone’s photos, and then, having seen their photos, I can’t immediately express my feelings about them… thanking people and sending regards to them gets put off, so I’m really worried that I will be exposed as a person without manners or courtesy.

    “When I write in English, because I have to use a dictionary, I can’t find the right words and I can’t say everything that I want to. So, not being able to do this or that, I am always feeling apologetic. It seems my friends won’t understand… So I feel a bit sad.

    “Here in Pusan the signs of fall are abundant. Incidentally, right now is a very busy time for me. On Oct. 31 and Nov. 1 I have appointments for a very important review, and there is my one-woman show in Seoul on Nov. 3, and then the book-signing activities for my photo collection “Island” are in Paris at the Photo Fair on Nov. 8. So this is quite a lot of work, but I am diligently preparing.”


  • PANOS,

    You are larger than life and have a burning inner light – it’s plain to see for all who meet you.

    Take a look at this –

    Don’t bother with the images – you’ve seen them already…

    Select the thumbnail with the text and read that — then pick up your camera and go make some pictures. Tap into this feeling and see what comes of it. Share it with us, if that helps.

    And Panos, please, please remember that light always does follow dark. And that you have many friends here.



    I’m with you, dear one. It’s hard when those middle of the night dark thoughts grab hold and won’t let go. It feels like you’re all alone. Even when you know in your heart that you’re not. But what you did was THE BEST THING ANYONE CAN DO–you reached out. You shared your darkness with us, your extended family. And you found that we care.

    We love you, you dear mixed-up, talented, sweetheart of a guy! And we all want the best for you. That’s what you and I talked about that bright sunny day in Brooklyn…what’s BEST for you.

    And one more thing. When you open yourself so completely to others, you give them permission to open themselves up as well. That’s what you did for me.

    Yesterday I had an experience that really sucked. I hadn’t shared it with anyone, not even my sweetie. But after reading your posts from last night, I sat down and wrote about that painful experience. I wrote it raw and honest. Just like you’d shown me how to do. I’ve now posted it under one of the photos in my self portrait/daily life project. Here’s the link:

    Keep keepin’ on, dear Panos. You have a huge heart, a sharp mind, an amazing talent, and a no bullshit approach to life that serves you well. You have a lot to give to our world. Don’t cut it short. We need you.

    with much love & a big hug

  • Hello All:

    I would like a bit of feedback if you don’t mind.

    At this time I have a section on The 37th Frame on the right side of the page called Readers Forum, but there has not seemed to be much interest in readers commenting on it. And the idea of posing a question such as thoughts on the state of the newspaper industry or any other topic, may be too narrow for such a broad audience.

    Today Andrew B. sent me a single photo to post and it gave me an idea.

    What about replacing the Forum with A Photo of the Day Critique section. I will post random images for comments. These will be images I find on the net or that are submitted.

    I think it may be interesting to see what others thoughts are in images posted there.

    Any thoughts?

    Feel free to email me at Posting here is fine, but I don’t want to hijack David’s blog.

    David, if you are reading, I would also like your opinion.

    Thanks all, and thanks for the support!

  • These will be images I find on the net..


    pete – i guess you are talking about images found on the net and used with prior consent, yeah?

  • David,

    Ideally the images will be submitted since I think it would be nice if the photographer included in their caption, why they shot it and why they like that particular image.

    Otherwise there may, from time to time, be a published image that I use for discussion. This would fall under usage for purposes of education, illustration or comment as provided for in section 107 of the U.S. Copyright Law. (Fair Use)

  • pete..

    that’s good.. i’m guessing you’re working within a break even / not for profit ideal for the site..

    the law aside, i’m not certain how i would feel about a photo being grabbed from my site for discussion / critique.. unless i invited it.

    i think it’s a good idea – especially if it is submitted photographs.. a photo surgery with honest appraisals will be welcome to many photographers i am sure.. browsing the flickr comments illustrates that the majority avoid this, and it must be tiresome for the few who genuinely want to improve..

    on the other hand – forums take a long while to gather pace.. a handful of us, using 2 or 3 usernames each and talking between ourselves, might get things underway.. thats the way i have previously seen forums initiated..

    perhaps a photo surgery room and general topics room would be the way to go initially and see which floats? the solution may be to try both.. see what floats..

    in any case.. i’ll check out the forum tonight if i have a chance and try to start posting..

  • David:

    The 37th Frame has taken off beyond my expectations. We are at just under 10,000 page views and the site has only been up for about 10 days. So I think there is a good chance that we can get a dialog going.

    If you have not visited the site, please stop by.

    As for invading peoples sites for photography, the only images that I would consider using that weren’t submitted where images that were published online in places other than a photographers portfolio or archive.

  • ALL….

    i have only had time to skim through the comments and from the looks of it, this no time to just “skim”…

    i have been shooting shore fishermen in a rough northeast wind storm the last two days, got so so soaking wet and chilled and must rest now before i catch pneumonia…anyway, now just a bad cold…

    so please let me get a few hours sleep and i will be back and carefully go over everything….i do see the gist of it and have many things to offer..

    blogland does seem to have gone crazy lately and both Natgeo and Magnum itself are quite curious about how we have such an active one….

    for us to keep our unique quality and to move forward and yet “stay the same”, i will be needing help from many of you….we somehow have this incredible unique place in blogland thanks to all of you with such good heart and spirit…

    now one thing YOU can do right away is to look at everything out there…JPEG Magazine, Foto 8 etc etc…or any other on line magazines that you know that i do not…look carefully….let me know what you see please…

    my goal here is to go with very high quality essays and writing…the “thinking persons forum” if you will…not just a lot of “cool pictures” , but thought provoking photography and writing as well…

    by the way, i am going to scrap the idea of using DRR for EPF since it looks like they are really going out of business fast….with a good webmaster , we can do the EPF right here…i think i have a good plan and will let you know soonest…

    anyway, i am going to take two aspirin and go to no, i am not too sick, so do not think about that at all…just wanted you to know where i am a what is up….busy shooting all the rest of this week in Carolina and Virginia with a good ad job (at a time when there are no ad jobs!) on friday and off to Mexico on saturday..other than that , i am not doing much!!!

    please “cover for me” while i am not too present….but, i will catch up on the reading here tonight or in the morning…

    yup, i miss you!!! back soon…

    peace et al, david

  • AH! That VOICE!

    Such a shame she died so young.

  • ughh david why’d I click that youtube link… why?

  • Hey Panos–I hope that the light of day has eased your suffering somewhat. I have so been there, bro, and man that’s a dark and lonely place. Actually when I met you at Look3 (and you dragged me all over C’ville looking for your hotel:)) I was deep in the throes of it…it was a solid six months of darkness for me, precipitated by a couple of years of “troubledness”…I don’t know how long you’ve been “in it”; I think it sometimes takes a long time to realize that you’ve entered into the dark night, and once you do, you feel like you’ve been there forever and that your life has always sucked…But the reality is that those periods are essential rites of passage in life, and as an artist it is your responsibility to embrace it fully, explore it as deeply as you can, and not try to hide from it. It will end, and when it does you will feel stronger and wiser, and life will take on a new brilliance…

    The lack of hope is part of the process…It’s archetypal. That’s Saturn operating in your life…a very powerful force. It’s hard to grasp what the point of feeling hopeless and depressed and lonely is , but it’s a very strong and deep magic that can open up places in your soul that will provide you with much inspiration and strength as an artist. You just got to embrace it, let it take over, even enjoy it, as strange as that sounds.

    You my friend are a little crazy, and that’s where your genius comes from. We all know that just by knowing you. You live very close to the bone with your emotions and the extremes that they take you to. So the trick is being able to ride that rollercoaster with a certain amount of empathy, amusement, and detachment (and knowing your sense of humor, I know that you already have this capability whether you konw it or not) and realize that nothing short of death will separate you from your soul, and your soul is that dear friend you are writing and talking to in the middle of the night.

    I once heard this analogy by a buddhist teacher about the mind being like the sky…the sun rises and sets, storms come and go, there are beautiful days and terrible days, there are epic storms, deep freezes, heat waves, etc…but the sky remains the sky and all else is just weather, passing through…

    Your thoughts on love and love’s illusions are pretty spot-on. I think you know the answer already to that dilemma, and it’s a hard one to get out of, because you too would like to have “somebody”; you are just wise enough to realize the difference between “somebody” and “anybody”…Still, sometimes “anybody” is better than “nobody”…but not for long.

    One word of caution though–some people tend to fall in love faster than others, and even though their love is based more on need or denial of some larger problem, it doesn’t mean that the potential for real love isn’t there….it just means you have to pierce through the illusions to find out for sure. But you should probably know already in your gut what the truth of the matter is, or whether or not that potential exists…

    For me, photography was more an act of discipline than therapy when I was in the middle of the dark night. I had very little inspiration or interest in photography, but I knew that I had to hold on to it and keep doing it, partly because it’s my job, but mainly because I still knew the “saner” version of myself from better times would be very disappointed if I gave up just because I had a bad case of the blues…

    There’s a great line from Akira Kurosawa’s “Dreams” I always remember…A group of mountaineers are stuck in a vicious snowstorm and are on the brink of death, trudging through a dark blizzard. They are all ready to just sit down in the snow and die. But the leader keeps prodding them on. At one point he says, “We’re mountain men! Can’t let a little snowstorm beat us!”…when the storm clears, it turns out they are only about 100 feet from their base camp…This is kind of an archetypal scenario, and an important one to keep in mind. You are closer than you think…

    As for Magnum, NatGeo, etc…fuck all that. Those things are just by-products. The real path of an artist is to commune with your soul and produce work that is true to YOU…whether anybody else digs it or not…not to say that you don’t take advice or push yourself in directions you might not go without some outside prodding…but the barometer for your work should be your own sense of fulfillment and satisfaction, and outward markers of “success” or “recognition” should be seen as icing on the cake; they should be accepted warmly but with a certain amount of caution, because they can just as easily ruin you by taking your center away from you…

    Yes, your camera is a compass, especially in your case, but never forget that your SOUL is magnetic north, and the camera is only a tool to help get you there…and sometimes there are other magnetic forces that can fool the compass…

    Okay, gotta go. I just heard through the grapevine that the “Serendipity”, the house featured in “Nights in Rodanthe” (and also featured in my surf project:)) was taken by the storm that we had here this weekend. I need to go down and investigate…

    Stay strong….

  • Hey Pete–that sounds great, “Crescent City Blues” is a little incomplete IMO, most of it is from a single day of shooting, but it would be great to get some exposure for it. I’ll send you an email later in the day. Thanks for the invite!! The site looks killer.


    Your words to Panos should be required reading for every artist, whatever her or his medium. I’m going to save it myself for careful rereading. Thank you.

    Hope that amazing house survived…


    Please take good care now. You need to be strong and healthy for Oaxaca. Could you PLEASE give yourself a couple days off??? Treat your body like your best friend…’cause it IS.


    For those who are worried that we haven’t heard from Panos since last night, he left a comment on my site this morning. To read it, scroll down past my text:


  • Patricia:

    Silvia Roitman 24-Sep-2008 04:02
    Char 24-Sep-2008 03:53
    Hi Patricia,
    Excellent shot! Great lighting. \/
    pr_rajan 24-Sep-2008 03:52
    …beautiful composition!

    I don’t see Panos’ comment anywhere.



    Sorry, I had to click on “show” for Panos’ message to be seen. Here it is:

    20-Oct-2008 16:18

    Pat… ah.. Pat…
    you make me feel stronger…
    i cant finish what you wrote above without
    tears tears tears in my eyes…
    thank you for “supporting” me with your
    writings… thank you for serving the truth..
    thats all we need… i cant find words..
    you are liberating my soul… i feel free when
    i read you… we are humans…
    urine, blood, tears…
    i love you… you are keeping me alive

  • David, David, David

    Watch that chill. I got hypothermia once after a river rescue and it was most unpleasant. For a couple of hours I actually lost my mind. It has taken me since 1991 to finally take a dip in chilly north Atlantic waters in 2006.

    A brief encounter with insanity, however, was an extraordinary experience though I wouldn’t care to go through it again.

    PHOTOSHELTER may well be the way to go. They have just rolled out some fantastic new features including their VIRTUAL AGENCY facility which is now FREE. I would encourage everyone to consider this. I’ve been with PS for a long time now and it has always been a flawless, efficient and elegant experience.

    The virtual agency facility would be PERFECT for this endeavour we’ve got happening here. And we could even help ourselves a little by selling our prints. I’ve got my eyes on some of Eric’s and Chris’ work which I would LOVE on my walls. Those syrupy rich hues just ooze sensuality for me and when I’ve got some ducats to spare I’ll try and fetch me some.

    Seriously y’all, let’s talk about this. I’m certain the PS people would love to be involved. This could be evolutionary.

    My youngest is hungry again so need to go.

    I’m back. We cannot keep up with our Connor. He has copious appetites at the moment. The largest of which is for FOOD!

    Please David, when you have a moment and fancy a giggle, please peruse which is now DONE, finally. I appreciate that you are snowed under with requests etc.. but just knowing you had a look would feel good to me.

    Scroll down to Virtual Agency here and have a think, folks. Also, keep in mind that there is a free account option a PS. Storage is limited but for the purposes of this blog and what we are doing here, you only need upload screen res files and so the FREE ACCOUNT would stretch a very long way.

    Enough from me. Too much to do. Two books to finish and promo cards to dispatch.

    ‘Till later.


  • Paul Treacy

    Free is always good and I’ll try it along with Panos.

    Looks very good.

  • French Heavy Metal Band
    Gojira – The Art of Dying

  • Sorry Hi Quality link here:

  • PETE,

    Yes, such an interesting idea for The 37th frame: A Photo of the Day Critique section. I think it can work very well.

    Will send you an email ;-)



  • DAH

    take really good care of yourself; I have had this thing that started as a cold for 10 days now, and I am not over it yet..kick it out of your body now..

  • pete m..
    of course – i’ve looked at 37th frame..
    did you not get email from me?


    glad you’re feeling the weather.. as pat says as well.. look after that young shell which is carrying you about..

  • David B.

    SHIT! Yes I have your email and I remember getting it, it just somehow got buried in the onslaught. I have been getting a lot of emails lately.

    But I do have it and I will reply tonight.

  • 1/2 hour audio interview with Susan Meiselas..scroll down the page to:

    Documentary Photography

    Photographer and MacArthur fellow Susan Meiselas is best known for her work covering political upheavals in Central America in the 1970s and 80s. The International Center of Photography (ICP) is hosting the first U.S. overview of her work, “Susan Meiselas: In History.” It’s on display through January 4, 2009.

  • nice one erica..

    some music for all to smile at

  • 6 min 50 or soto 7 mins of the interviews hits nails on heads for me…

  • Karim-
    My 6’2″ skinhead-looking friend who slipped into the netherworld used to annoy me with the Carpenters. Eventually you just have to embrace it.

  • PANOS,

    Unfortunately, life isn’t perfect and after all that was wisely said by Chris and the others I only want to repeat you are not alone and, cliché I know, but we can make the difference, we don’t need to bend our principles, we can change things.
    AND WE ALREADY DO!!! Be in peace!


    I had the same problem described by David with your website. Using a Macbook and tried Firefox and Opera.
    Anyway, really liked the Western United States landscapes and the underwater pics. The opening picture is the best!


    Your pictures put me in a time machine and brought back memories of years ago when my wife was studying classical guitar and I used to watch her rehearsals.
    You captured the mood! Sad part of the story is they are homeless now. Hope they find another one soon…


    Despite being a color guy your B/W are amazing and, as I posted before, your approach on photographing surf makes it much more interesting than the regular pics we see around in surf magazines. BTW, I am not a surfer…


    Why don’t you think about a book of chronicles? Your dialog with Capa was superb!

    Ari B.

  • Hello Everyone:

    I have started the daily photo critique on The 37th Frame. It only seemed fair that I be the first guinea pig under the microscope.

    So please check it out and feel free to make comments. Hopefully others will participate and this can be a learning experience for all.


  • Hi PETE,

    I was visiting 37th Frame and tried to include a comment, but it says the comments are closed…
    Lack of ideas right now to help you improve something else but I really appreciate your initiative, liked the look of the website and am willing to contribute.

    Ari B.

  • Ari,

    You need to comment on the post with the photo not the introduction post.

  • PETE M

    I just sent you a candidate for the “Photo of the Day Critique” on the 37th Frame. Hope you can use it!



    Big thanks for translating and passing on Kyunghee’s message. I miss her so much. She not only has an amazing talent but a truly radiant spirit!


  • Thanks Pete.
    The confusion was made when I clicked at the topic “A Photo a day – Your opinion please…” and was looking for a comment window.
    I left a comment there and will submit something to you soon.

    Ari B.

  • Panos,
    Something that is a “little” thing I guess–but the “little” things often are the ones that stay in our hearts. That was such a lovely and sweet photo you took of me in Charlottesville. I thank you for it–and I also very much enjoyed meeting you.
    You have a very sensitive eye and heart, and I hope that projects open up for you that use your talent to the max.
    Pain is so hard–but not feeling, not caring is worse. A physician who worked in a leper colony wrote a book about his experiences. The lepers lose their nerve tissue, and because they have no pain, they are unable to protect themselves from harm.
    You not only seem to have so many friends here, but you also seem to have really touched a “nerve” for many of us. Sometimes things are just awful in our lives, but Patricia and others have shown the beauty that is always there.

  • PANOS…

    Here’s a job opportunity for you. In VENICE no less…working for LAUREN GREENFIELD. Oh wait…it says you need strong interpersonal skills…nevermind! :))) Just kidding…you should apply.

  • Just wanted to share a diptych I created & posted today. Can you imagine my good fortune in running into Irene who is 101 and Isabella who is 2 within minutes of one another. It was a good day!


  • Gave you a “review”, Pete (37th frame), Pat too.
    I forgot to say the loft WS slideshow was quite special. I keep forgetting the names, some of the work was really amazing, each shot adding to the other, and I was not disappointed by David Keenan’s “faggot” story. Funny, for years I thought the word meant a bunch of fire wood (fagot in french)…
    Panos, next time you go into the woods, don’t forget to bring some faggot for our fireplace! :-)))))


    I hope you don’t have the killer 10 day flu that was going around here a few months ago. It was the only time I have ever caught up on all the posts here.

    The question of balance is a tricky interesting one. Equally as important I think is the question of ownership of the idea as rather than being directed to do a shoot by a client. Professionally I mostly shoot only the things I am interested in ( I generally bugger up the stuff I’m not into) But what I really find rewarding is self directed work because is not only subjects that I’m truly interested in but the buck in every way stops with me.

    Below is another link to some new work.


    Thanks for you comment. 40 rolls of film and it is the image I am most happy with. The link above is for the rest of that series.

  • the 37th Frame…..has a new photo to critique….don’t leave me commentless!!!

    I’d hate to be the one that silenced the crowd right after the show started!


    And back on topic…balance…I am fortunate that I don’t rely on photography to pay the bills…so there is no “obligatory” shooting…but I am discovering I want to focus less on snapshots and more on developing my own perspective and style…

    good morning light to all out there ….

  • Which way does the wind blow?

    I’ve thought about David’s question quite a bit as I’ve been reading Ken Kesey’s “Sometimes a Great Notion” again, a book which is, to me, one of the greatest I’ve ever read and arguably, the greatest Kesey ever wrote, and was never to match again. He essentially stopped writing novels after this one came out in 1964 (well one much later but he himself said he could never write anything like Sometimes again). But I found this quote from him about his philosophy toward life, one that closely matches mine, at least now, and has always been at the core of why I write, or think about things, often “differently” as I’ve been told, and especially why I take pictures … it was nice to find this because it bears reminding, often … I met Kesey once, a big, earthy kind bear, and saw him put on a magic show with his grandson once too, and wish I could have had a beer and a talk around the campfire with him deep in the mystery of the Northwest woods …

    “The answer is never the answer,” Kesey said. “What’s really interesting is the mystery. If you seek the mystery instead of the answer, you’ll always be seeking. I’ve never seen anybody really find the answer — they think they have, so they stop thinking. But the job is to seek mystery, evoke mystery, plant a garden in which strange plants grow and mysteries bloom. The need for mystery is greater than the need for an answer.”

  • Tom, you reminded me of the Clouzot movie : the “Picasso mystery”. Picasso himself said and knew of course that “questions are more interesting than answers”…

    … Which is why I always thought David rarely asnwers mine!!! They stand as testimony of the greatest, unattainable mysteries in our lives….

    :-))))) (remember, I am just a house painter, and…. Well, Off to work!)

  • TOM

    “Sometimes A Great Notion” is a great book, and one that anyone who has any feeling at all for the Northwest must feel a deep resonance with. I’m puzzled by your implication that in later years Ken Kesey wrote only one novel…(??) I have read at least two… “Sailor Song” and “Last Go Round” both of which are worthy of attention.

  • /\ i feel like i’m being unfaithful

    sorry harvey.

  • AHA!!! I felt like I was one of only a handful still in the room. Thanks, David B. for explaining THAT mystery!


  • :o)

    tor is listening to zero 7 and so i am whoring it.. oh yes.

  • Thanks for that quoted passage, Tom. I’m making dinner now and that quote is rolling around in my head as I cook. It’s wonderful. Tomorrow I’m going to allow myself to go in search of some mysteries. Time to hit the streets again. Afresh.

  • “The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed.”

    “People do not grow old no matter how long we live. We never cease to stand like curious children before the great Mystery into which we were born.”

A human being is a part of a whole, called by us ‘universe’, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest… a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.”

    “one of the strongest motives that lead men to art and science is escape from everyday life with its painful crudity and hopeless dreariness, from the fetters of one’s own ever-shifting desires. A finely tempered nature longs to escape from the personal life into the world of objective perception and thought.”

    “Although I am a typical loner in daily life, my consciousness of belonging to the invisible community of those who strive for truth, beauty, and justice has preserved me from feeling isolated.”

    “True art is characterized by an irresistible urge in the creative artist.”

    “The great moral teachers of humanity were, in a way, artistic geniuses in the art of living.”

    “Only one who devotes himself to a cause with his whole strength and soul can be a true master. For this reason mastery demands all of a person..”

    “One may say ‘the eternal mystery of the world is its comprehensibility.”


  • Did Einstein say all those things? Wow!

  • Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe.–Albert Einstein.

    Me neither-Akaky

  • I see that many ours writers shows how the best blog should looks like. Maybe magnum photos will learn some from us :)

    David we still love you :)

  • Great texture on that pictures, Audrey!

  • TO ALL-

    For those of you that have looked at my boxing essay (see link below):

    I was just looking at the local newspaper this morning (Cincinnati Enquirer) and saw a title “Ex-olympic boxer arrested”. Article went on saying that former olympic boxer Ron Siler who has had run-ins with the law before, was arrested after he allegedly assaulted a police officer at the Hamilton County Courthouse Monday… Ron is accused of becoming belligerent after the officer tried to stop him from cutting in the security line. He was then arrested on charges of assaulting the police officer, resisting arrest and obstruction of official business….

    I am sitting here thinking, what on earth was going through his head to do something so stupid? Why do they all end up screwing up like that? It is sad to see this happening, one after the other…. All these kids/ young men know what to do on the ring but are so lost outside the ring…. No end in sight I am afraid and I just hope that this vicious circle for these young men come to an end eventually!!!



    Nice builds! I particularly like picture 29 and 31.

    J’espere que tu vas bien!!!!


  • AUDREY, great family pics (and something I hadnt noticed before: your parents and mine have the same first names!)

    ERIC, I think the reason so many of those young athletes get into trouble is that the world that makes sense to them-the boxing ring, the baseball field, the basketball court, the hockey ice, the football gridiron, the soccer pitch–has definite rules and regulations with definite rules and regulations, whereas the rest of society just seems to make rules up as it goes along and they are never quite as sure of where they stand.

  • Let’s try that again, shall we?

    ERIC, I think the reason so many of those young athletes get into trouble is that the world that makes sense to them-the boxing ring, the baseball field, the basketball court, the hockey ice, the football gridiron, the soccer pitch–has definite rules and regulations, whereas the rest of society just seems to make rules up as it goes along and they are never quite as sure of where they stand.

  • Okay, that makes more sense.

  • Mistery, Life, Questions, No answers, Diversity, Freedom…
    I go thru these words (among others), take a deep breath, smile and, inspired, start shooting!


    Keep going girl! I see your work like Patricia’s but with a different approach, a “french” approach. Different circumstances, different characters, same game, life, family.


    Do you believe is there a way to be in a project as you are and not be emotionally involved with your subject, I mean the people?
    I don’t think so, or at least I think it’s hard to stay away, and sometimes when I stop to think about what we are doing I get a bit scared, facing the responsibilities we put on our shoulders…

    Ari B.

  • Ana, Eric, Akaky, thank you very much…

    Eric, j’espère que tu vas bien aussi!!

    Akaky, my father is called Bernard Bardou, my mother Brigitte Bardou, my sister Béatrice Bardou that BB except me, AB, this always made laugh me!!
    My best regards to your parents,

  • Ari, thank you very much, I hope that you will share very soon your images!!

  • Audrey Great images, really great!

    Je ne peux pas attendre pour en voir plus.


  • ARI,

    Hard indeed to not be emotionally attached. I have started to build a relationship with some of these young men especially more recently when we have started to talk about their lives etc as opposed to me just being there to take pictures… I obviously wish them well, would like them to succeed and stay on the right track but you feel so unable to help…

    By the way, I am curious about your comment to Audrey on “doing it the French way”…. Being French myself I am just wondering what you would mean by that…


  • Eric–

    i’d reconsider your use of the word ‘all’. twice.
    what notions are you harboring about these boys/men?
    they are not ‘all’ “lost outside the ring.”

    these things jump out at me.
    i have to watch myself also in using such language
    when thinking of/referring to my street kids.

    aside from that, good photos but too too many and i would go back to panos’ questions to you and honestly answer them for yourself.


    31, 36, 37, 38 – my favorites. :)


    I am trying to find the easiest way to show my pics. I have a portfolio at
    But after the feedback I’ve received in the last few months, plus some new work I’ve been doing recently, it needs to be updated.


    Don’t be worried! ;-))
    Actually, it was just a way I found to show the difference from her point of view to Patricia’s, with a different background, culturally and geographically.

    HILLARY and TOM,

    Thanks for the quotes. Very interesting indeed.
    I’ve being too lazy to read books in english and sometimes the translations, no matter how good they are, don’t give you the precise author’s idea or thoughts (I don’t find better words…). I must give up on my lazyness! (Even if i take an year to read a 100 pages book)

    Ari B.

  • KATIA,

    “ALL” may not be right indeed so would be happy to take that back… I also do not think that I am harboring any particular notion about these boys/ men… I was just reacting with sadness about this additional event that has happened after many previous ones… I am certainly not judging them in anyway… who I am to judge… I am just hoping to see more of them stay out of trouble and onto positive things… Easier said than done as I am sure you must experience with your street kids.


  • Due to circumstances I don’t get the time to post very often, but I try to read every day. The entire life/work balance is an interesting one, & one that I seem to deal with every day. Especially so at the moment.

    It has now been exactly 12 months since I gave up the day job at the supermarket to go freelance. Ironically, I’ve probably accomplished less personal work in that time than before.

    When you have a guaranteed income (full time other job) you are not relying on your photography sales for income. When relying on the photography, the income related work must take priority. The problem is trying to incorporate personal projects into your other work, & it’s a hard balance to maintain.

    I’ve put up a link to some of my Timor cock fighting images on Lightstalkers. I’d be interested in any comments. I attempted to concentrate on the surrounding atmosphere. The light was very contrasty so decided to work with it, rather than against it. Hopefully it helps with the atmosphere.

    There are twenty images. I know which ones I prefer, but am keen for feedback. I’ll eventually cut the images back to 6-8. Some of you may have seen some of the images before, but I have added some and deleted others.

    Respectfully, I think you may have fallen into the same trap that I did on my work in the Timor IDP camps. The critique I received from Bill Allard was pivotal for me. He thought that I went in too tight and ended up with images with too much “sameness”. I didn’t tell the entire story; the images were technically fine, but needed to go up another level.

    I think you said that the gym helps keep youths from troubled pasts out of mischief? If so, I’d love to see some interactions/quiet moments, with their trainers/mentors etc.

    Here’s the link to my pics, & if you missed the critique I’m quite happy to re-post it, or email it to you if you like. It may help put my words in contact. As an aside, I loved your use of light for “Semana Santa”

    Stick to your guns, just be you. Eventually the heavy grey clouds will part and you’ll feel warming rays upon your face. Just keep looking up……

    And regarding following your own course…here’s a short poem from Sam Hunt. Sam’s New Zealand’s best known modern poet. He’s always followed his own path, never deviated, come hell or high water…

    Beware the Man.

    Beware the man who tries to fit you out,
    In his idea of a hat,
    Dictating the colour and the shape of it.

    He takes your head and carefully measures it;
    Says “Of course black’s out”,
    He sees himself in the big black hat.

    So you may be a member of the act,
    He makes for you your special coloured hat,
    Beware! He’s fitting you for more than that.

    Cheers everyone


    Beautiful additions. You’re building a consistent body of work here, one which gives us an eye into the day-to-day life of your parents. I’m having a hard time trying to choose the ones I think would most enhance the work as a whole, but #31 & #38 are at the top of my list. I also very much like the vantage point you got on #33. Might you get up on that chair for more of your shots? It provides an interesting change.


    I was intrigued to read Ari’s comment about Audrey’s & my projects being similar except that hers is more French while mine is more American.

    Could this be a topic for discussion? Do we see commonalities in work that comes out of particular countries and/or cultures? Are there consistent differences we see in the work of photographers from different countries? If so, what are they?


  • Audrey

    Nice additions….I keep coming back to 29 and 31….all of the different textures and undertones of meaning…

    There is something interesting about 29, as well….

    best, A.

  • Has anyone heard from or talked to Panos yesterday or today? Sure would like to be assured that he’s doing OK.


  • audrey

    31, 32, 35, – – – and, and, and, 37 and 38 are just wonderful..

    i know you will be aware of some duplicate photographs, and i think that’s okay..
    it’s really great to see you carry the project forwards..


    if only it were the case that one profession or set of life experience led to stupid behavior, eh? :o)

    patricia /ari

    i’m not sure i see a national trend in the style of photography – just a human one..
    i do see a subject choice which makes me think of nationality.. however not with yours and audreys work.. if i knew neither of you i do not think i would be able to guess which work was from which country, apart from references within the photos themselves.
    i see the relative styles within photographers work more as a sign of the relative challenges, pleasures and struggles which they have experienced..

    for me photography completely transcends geography these days, although i understand that this has not always been the case.
    with the references being taken across the globe from the internet, i think it is more difficult to pin a style within a geographical boundary.. and more difficult to designate a movement to a country..

    ari / eric

    on caring about those we photograph.. may be it is the case that some of us care about people who enter our lives.. even if only through a project or random meeting..
    it’s certainly true that i respect the shop keeper where i buy my newspaper equal to the people who commission me, equal to the people who i photograph.
    any ones stress within the circle of people encountered cannot help but become our stress as well.. surely that’s the case even more if you are carrying out a project which binds you closer to a person than you are bound to the newspaper shop :o)

  • patricia..

    hopefully panos will let the blog know that the clouds are clearing as and when they do..

    certainly has been a very strange month on here..

  • Yes, David. And I’d say “strange” is an understatement!


  • :o)

    i seem to do that a lot.. patricia..
    how is your lake of tranquility this fine evening? i’m chilling.. looking through 10 months of photos of a love affair..

    how funny that the posts about balance.. fall-out.. turn out to be so random and have hidden depths which disturb those unconnected and in the dark..

    obviously i hope everyone is okay.. and that people can let us know that they are.
    respect to those who kept it off the blog..

  • David;

    When I was mostly taking nature photos I used to notice a major difference in styles between UK & US nature photography.

    I used to subscribe to Outdoor Photographer (USA) & Outdoor Photography (UK) and there was a major difference in style. The UK photographers seemed to have a “softer” more impressionistic style. Maybe it was a quality of light issue too??? I’m not sure, I haven’t visited either. I always seemed to naturally graduate more to the UK style.

    Regarding “down” times… I wouldn’t mind a dollar for every time I’ve woken up in the middle of the night wondering if I was right to quit the day job/whether I can pay this month’s bills… But mostly by morning I’ve gotten over it…. Or pushed it to the recesses of the mind…..


  • ross

    you are probably right..
    a countries conditioning perhaps cannot be undone so quickly as it has taken the internet to reach out.. and as it is the internet does not reach all..
    perhaps there is a future where style is less geographic.. maybe it’s not yet :o)

  • ALL,
    I’m not acting hard to get…
    This celebrity bullshit is simply bullshit..
    I’m always here.. Right here..
    Ready to jump in..
    I’m Reading everything..
    I got all the emails.. All the love.,
    Overwhelmed.. I will respond to all
    that really care.. ( that means to ALL)
    I’m ready to take “charge” sooner or later..
    But for now let me please enjoy this

    .. Wait for me…
    I didn’t forget you ..
    Yeah right .. Like I can .. Anyways..

    AGAIN .. We just started..

  • panos.. what celebrity bullshit mate?
    feels like riddles..

  • Sindey, well of course you are right.

    I did allude to Sailor Song which was his first and only novel written by him alone some 28 years after Sometimes a Great Notion. (Last Go Round was co-written with Ken Babbs). But, for the most part, he did withdraw from primary authorship of novels preferring often for more collaborative works with students (we have a copy of Demon Box) or more experimental works (and The Further Inquiry too). But Kesey himself said he could never write another book like Sometimes, it just wasn’t in him.

    It’s interesting, I think one reason the book isn’t more highly regarded outside the West is that it doesn’t translate well for those who have never spent a winter on the Northwest coast or been around logging or loggers and Kesey’s style and rich sense of place isn’t as accessible to those without first person experience as say, for instance, Barbara Kingsolver’s Congo in The Poisonwood Bible. This was true for me at least having first read Sometimes in Virginia before ever visiting the Northwest. The first 150 or so pages were then a mystery to me, almost alien beyond my capacity to grasp, now they are my favorite … he just absolutely nailed it all for all of us out here, especially those who headed west, all the way west, now just jammed up against it.

    It’s interesting, Friedlander grew up in Aberdeen, WA, a pure logging town on the Washington coast. I worked with a woman who went to high school with him and she said he was always taking pictures. I wonder how growing up in a small logging town, not unlike Kesey’s coast, influenced his work or outlook. I know what it did to Cobain.

  • ‘me as i think i am and me as i am in fact – sorrow, in other words, and the ending of sorrow. one third, more or less, of all the sorrow that the person i think i am must endure is unavoidable.
    it is the sorrow inherent in the human condition, the price we must pay for being sentient and self conscious organisms, aspirations to liberation, but subject to the laws of nature, and under orders to keep on marching, through irreversible time, through a world that is wholly indifferent to our well-being, towards decrepitude and the certainty of death.
    the remaining two thirds of all sorrow is home made and, so far as the universe is concerned, unnecessary’.

    aldous huxley

    ‘… look around you’ll find the ground is not so far from where you are..’

    nick drake

  • Audrey, i love your work :))) these are all great and yes, 38 is special!

  • Hillary! Love those Einstein quotes, especially the first, a favorite of mine. :))

  • Did somebody say 38 Special?

  • Noooooooooo!!!!!! Dude you’re killin’ me ;-))

  • ‘This video is not available in your country. ‘

  • I always find the way art is often approached in Britain (England only?) ,much more didactic, scholarly, than in France, where we are a little bit more sleigh of hand, subjective.

    It’s a tendency I noticed first when I was told the greatest oenologues (wine cogbniscenti) were brits (never heard of a great vines from england), then in music, the studious interpreter has more credit than the mercurial one. In Photography, UK magazines seem to really be intent on showing you what makes a good picture. French ones may, but then in last resort, ask you to break the rules (which in photography is actually another rule!).

    Just back from work, I probably have no idea what I am saying.

    Wow, Patricia left me 6 private messages on Pbase. I’ m in for a scolding, for sure…. :-)))))))))

  • Audrey, #36 for me, wonderful shot, love it.

    Still, I am intrigued by #35. Ok, what the hell is on that plate, I’ve been looking, looking, but je donne ma langue au…Chat! And don’t tell us he (le chat!) really drinks from that glass, by gosh, a cat watching TV at the dinner table, that’s plenty of animal tricks already! ;-))))

  • Audrey, #36 for me, wonderful shot, love it.

    HERVE , nailed it…

    “I always find the way art is often approached in Britain (England only?) ,much more didactic, scholarly, than in France, ..”

    “…Photography, UK magazines seem to really be intent on showing you what makes a good picture. French ones may, but then in last resort, ask you to break the rules (which in photography is actually another rule!)…”


    France … LOOSE…….;-))))))))

    England… TIGHT……;-((((((((…..

    you nailed it again & again………& again & again…..

    ( i dont think i missed Herve… but Herve is right… on the money..)


  • from the DICTIONARY….

    what is the definition of a “classy woman”…????

    ….. “ROSEMARY”……. is the answer…!

  • …. i met HILLARY… up in C/Ville…
    when i first met her , i thought that she was “barely legal”…
    i avoided too much contact with her coz i didnt wanna have problems with the authorities…

    when… later, i realized that she is actually a little over 21,…
    i really hated myself… ;-)))))))


    guess who’s back…
    Shady’s back……

  • ALL…
    new EMINEM is dropping soon…

    the title is “RELAPSE”…
    not hard to guess…. huhhhhh!


    “…..I’ve created a monster, cause nobody wants to see Marshall no more
    They want Shady, I’m chopped liver (huh?)
    Well if you want Shady, this is what I’ll give ya
    A little bit of weed mixed with some hard liquor
    Some vodka that’ll jump start my heart quicker
    than a shock when I get shocked at the hospital
    by the doctor when I’m not co-operating
    When I’m rockin the table while he’s operating (hey!!)
    You waited this long, now stop debating
    Cause I’m back, I’m on the rag and ovu-lating
    I know that you got a job Ms. Cheney
    but your husband’s heart problem’s complicating
    So the FCC won’t let me be
    or let me be me, so let me see
    They try to shut me down on MTV
    But it feels so empty, without me
    So, come on and dip, bum on your lips
    Fuck that, cum on your lips, and some on your tits
    And get ready, cause this shit’s about to get heavy
    I just settled all my lawsuits, FUCK YOU DEBBIE!

    [Chorus: Eminem]
    Now this looks like a job for me
    So everybody, just follow me
    Cause we need a little, controversy
    Cause it feels so empty, without me
    I said this looks like a job for me
    So everybody, just follow me
    Cause we need a little, controversy
    Cause it feels so empty, without me

    [Verse Two: Eminem]
    Little Hellions, kids feelin rebellious
    Embarrassed their parents still listen to Elvis
    They start feelin like prisoners helpless
    ’til someone comes along on a mission and yells BITCH!!!
    A visionary, vision of scary
    Could start a revolution, pollutin the airwaves
    A rebel, so just let me revel and bask
    in the fact that I got everyone kissin my ass {*smak*
    And it’s a disaster, such a catastrophe
    for you to see so damn much of my ass; you asked for me?
    Well I’m back, na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na
    {*bzzt* Fix your bent antenna tune it in and then I’m gonna
    enter in, endin up under your skin like a splinter
    The center of attention, back for the winter
    I’m interesting, the best thing since wrestling
    Infesting in your kid’s ears and nesting
    {*bzzt* Testing, attention please
    Feel the tension, soon as someone mentions me
    Here’s my ten cents, my two cents is free
    A nuisance, who sent? You sent for me?


    [Verse Three: Eminem]
    A-tisket a-tasket, I go tit for tat with
    anybody who’s talkin this shit, that shit
    Chris Kirkpatrick, you can get your ass kicked
    worse than them little Limp Bizkit bastards
    And Moby? You can get stomped by Obie
    You thirty-six year old baldheaded fag, blow me
    You don’t know me, you’re too old, let go
    It’s over, nobody listen to techno
    Now let’s go, just gimme the signal
    I’ll be there with a whole list full of new insults
    I been dope, suspenseful with a pencil
    ever since Prince turned himself into a symbol {*knife slices*
    But sometimes the shit just seems
    everybody only wants to discuss me
    So this must mean I’m dis-gus-ting
    But it’s just me, I’m just obscene
    No I’m not the first king of controversy
    I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley
    to do black music so selfishly
    and used it to get myself wealthy
    (Hey!!) There’s a concept that works
    Twenty million other white rappers emerge
    But no matter how many fish in the sea
    It’ll be so empty, without me …”




  • Obligatory in the sense of money generating: 5%
    Obligatory in the sense “I have to photograph this because I can’t let it go unnoticed”: 95%
    I love the action of photographing 100% though.

  • john

    that’s the ideal, isn’t it..


    i think your generalization is influenced by stereo-typing.. the english know bugger all about wine.. and no one i know there would pretend otherwise :o)

    which magazines? which music? my experience was the polar opposite with both..

    magazines never gave me a brief in the u.k. and i’d say the most rigid i have worked for have been in germany or america – where specifics and style was much more pushed to the fore.
    in fact the artistic freedom i experienced in u.k. publications was at all levels.. from arranging the shoot to conducting the shoot to presenting the work.. there was nothing directed about what i chose to do, and i’ve certainly never attempted to educate or summon up the classics in my work.. nor do i know any photographers who do.
    musical experimentation.. EM.. evolution of hip hop.. house.. more.. is on another level to much of the world, although europe as a whole has a good handle on it.


    hope you’re finding some balance..
    you’re wrong about england being tight, of course..

  • OK, now that we’ve got PANOS back–Hey, bro!–where the hell is DAH???

    Come on, friend, just a hello to let us know if you’re feeling better. Pretty please ;~)



    You must be keeping Tor Capa company because if it’s 11 p.m. here, it’s 5 a.m. there! Hope this isn’t when your alarm clock goes off…


  • 5.09…

    just changed nappies.. spare moment.. photography.

  • ok.. then..
    ENGLAND 1 – FRANCE 1..

    what do you think????


    ( girls love bad boys… who am i to disagree????? )


  • i live in norway..

    you know.. where everyone ice-fishes and it’s dark all winter.. yeah?


  • Obligatory in the sense of money generating: 5%
    Obligatory in the sense “I have to photograph this because I can’t let it go unnoticed”: 95%
    I love the action of photographing 100% though.

    Posted by: John Vink | October 21, 2008 at 10:48 PM

    …….. time for PANOS to kiss some major ASS…
    JOHN VINK …. is here….
    fucking John Vink is here…

    … thank you MAESTRO for stopping by……
    we love you J.V


  • KERRY P..
    Thank you!
    You know that DAH.. and us rely
    on you.. Right?

    Thank you again..
    Great to meet you in Brooklyn…

  • something to say, must be said, yes … :))

  • John;

    “Obligatory in the sense “I have to photograph this because I can’t let it go unnoticed”: 95%”

    I agree totally, but it’s hard for some to understand. Not long after I returned from Timor my brother in law viewed an AV presentation of the images and said to me; “I admire what you are trying to do, but you won’t make a difference”.

    I must admit I was a bit taken back, but then replied as honestly as I could “Sure I want to make a difference, or at least raise some awareness. But what difference would I make if I was still working at my supermarket job? None”


    “you’re wrong about england being tight, of course…” You’re right there; just think of Monty Python, Blackadder, Fawlty Towers, The Office etc…. As DAH would say “Loooose”!!!

  • PANOS~

    Happy to see that you’re back….BTW I am more than a little over 21….

    Yes…too true that girls like the bad boys and sometimes the ones that are just bad for them….

    με την αγάπη,


  • English…..Tight…..Yes….Panos….”no sex, we’re english”, they even put ot on t-shirts, you can’t make that up.

    An evening of stereotypes, now here’s an idea. What’s that they say about greeks again?….

    And the french, we are! The most sterotyped nation on earth. David B. admit it, we are stereotyped, only the belgians (that’s John Vink here) are more stereotyped than french, but by the french only, so it doesn’t count… Ok, maybe the republicans, and the chinese, more stereotyped…. By Panos!

    John Vink, ‘coming to Cambodia soon, very soon. Remember, no portfolio, no freakin’ “I am a photographer too…what do you think…”, fuck no, just for friendship. I missed you in June in Paris, probably easier to go to Cambodia to see you. If you want. I am nobody, just a nice guy, and Patricia will tell you, not always… David too. So maybe we meet… My honor, truly…. Une fois…. Veux-tu? :-)

  • All…
    Thanks a lot…

    I also think that I found an angle interesting for 33 (I am between the refrigerator and the washbasin!!), I am not far from a good image but it is not still that…

    thank you for the sharing… as we all, it is necessary to make a tighter editing, I like your documentaries…

    Best regards, audrey

  • John

    Obligatory in the sense of money generating: 2%
    Obligatory in the sense of money spending for; 95%
    Obligatory in the sense “I have to photograph this because I feel I have to do it best way I can”: 95%
    I love the action of photographing 100% though.

  • No, the Irish are the most stereotyped on Earth. And we are NOT the biggest boozers. We have long since been passed by the English who may well be the new leaders. Having just moved back here it’s one issue that makes me rather uneasy.

    There was a discussion on BBC London yesterday discussing whether or not putting troops on the streets of some neighborhoods might help curb “anti social behaviour” which is often fueled by alcohol. Crazy.

    On a positive note, however, girls eventually come looking for the good guys when they finally see sense. Ultimately it’s the good guys they want to make babies with, right?

    So if you are one of the good guys, sit tight awhile. You’ll win in the end.

  • One thing the English are brilliant at is humour. In that regard they’re seriously loose. Wit, here in England, is of the highest calibre. You can find genius wit everywhere.

  • TOM H & SIDNEY :))))))))))

    DAMN, I LOVE THAT MAD BOOK OF KEESEY’S :))))))))))))))….

    and did you say: ABERDEEN, WA?


  • or if you want to know about the WOODS, no better place than to start with Kurt and Leadbelly


    IMHO you are a hell of a good guy, one who speaks your mind and sometimes gets burned doing it. I respect you highly.



    I VOW TOO FOR HERVE’S NICE QUALITIES….just dont get him drunk or you’ll both end up in a pink-walled hotel in Phenom Penn …comme Paris ;)))))

    take him up :)))


  • Bob, nice circle … the title of the book comes from Goodnight Irene which Lead Belly made famous, although i’m guessing you already knew that … :))

  • Hilliary, you in the Northwest too? Saw your Oregon Country Fair, ain’t that just a trip, and one of Kesey’s old hangouts :)))


  • ALL

    Today it seems to be my turn at bat on the “37th Frame” Photo of the Day Critique:


  • Hello Every 1 …. my first post here .. on da coolest blog eva … m frm mumbai india … i do a bit of photography n inkjet printin a mix of both … printin is obligatory … n i shoot everything n anything i com across … heres a link to a vry shrt set of photographs i made earlier this yr …. …. pls have a look n lemme knw wat u guys think of it .. bye fr nw — vivek

  • Herve,
    Stereotypes about Greeks ????
    “They” say we are all Gay…

  • herve..

    well, you could find that t-shirt on some beach stands in the 70’s, although it is a throw back 30 or more years..
    admit that people are stereotyped? well – that’s easy.. not by me though..

  • vivek

    it’s an interesting set of photos aesthetically – i think there are some real gems in there..
    is it part of a larger project?

    mumbai is great.. any city with a beach is great..

  • paul

    the irish nation has had a terrible time with stereotyping operating alongside occupation.. it’s shocking to go for a drink with an irish friend in england and still see the petty jokes being bandied about, ignorant of the actual offense they cause – especially during the war.
    of course there are always those who perpetuate myths.. although to my mind dividing people according to national stereotype is more about inflating the nationality of the speaker than of any seed of truth..
    ‘you can find genius wit everywhere’
    spot on..


  • /\ that made me laugh.. eminem as the later day judy garland..

  • HI ALL

    thinking of you, but can’t catch up with the particulars..still scanning for the assignment, and still drinking ginger tea for the endless cold..

    anyone heading tomorrow to the Dispatches event at vii? I will be there..and what about the PDN EXPO? would like to say hi if you are going, I should be there on Saturday.

    have William Eggleston In The Real World by my side, hoping to watch it tonite..anyone seen it yet?


    beautiful words to panos, thought you might enjoy this if you aren’t familiar


    read your text, it seems you are very much on the right track, and you have had so much amazing feedback, can’t really add anything in my rushed state except to say that i have heard you..


    keep meaning to email you but as I am typing here already..wanted to say I met Jason at a party on friday and had some time to talk with him and look at his gorgeous book (everyone, check it out, tho the web doesn’t do it justice, at all) He sent me home with a book dummy for a project he did on Fulbright, a white backdrop LF piece, was great to see, also has some videos in it of the making of..what good fun!) Anyway, I said hello for you..

  • DAH must be en route to OAXACA..if not already there?


    Thanks for the link. I too am a fan of the young Judy Garland, but let me share with you my current favorite ‘torch’ singer:

  • TOM~

    Hello… Yes, a fellow NWester!…Oregon… Mt Jefferson near the Opal Creek Wilderness VIA NYC…

    Funny that you are reading SGN…Preparing for the rain?

    I know this book well…some times I call my ex logger turned environmentalist husband “Hank Stamper”… Friends down the road from me named their kid “Hank” & above his bed…”Never give an Inch”. I’ve caught myself “Standing & Staring” at the deluge several times.

    Before I was even a thought in my parents minds my husband was good friends with Kesesy, took acid in his bus “Further” and stayed at the farm during his college years. The Country Fair then was a Renaissance fair and still going strong with the vibrant counter culture we have here in the NW. Do you go to it in the Summer?

    Are you anywhere near Port Townsend on the Olympic Pen.?
    We have an old wooden sailboat there and come up several times a year…From the sound of things we are on similar paths….hope we can meet up sometime….


  • Since everyone is posting music… this cd just came out and has sold 4,200 units opening week…. support the french metal band Gojira!!!

  • ERICA~

    Thank you for sharing your astute perspectives & for posting many great links….I really appreciate them.


  • Reflecting ourselves in the blood of all the beings we slay
    Misunderstand each other, out of control we remain
    There is a mystery, we’re facing a sight to behold
    This is what we make of the world, we throw everything away

    The way we all behave is not understandable
    It is so sad to see the wealth of our planet fade away
    We all behave like children, taking off the head of our teddy bear
    to see what’s inside, taking, not giving back
    We drain the oceans and suck all the blood out of the soil
    We spend the time we have left fighting and killing each other
    Lust for comfort, entertainment becomes an obsession
    And there is so much time to kill

    The way I see things is so simple
    The fact I’m walking standing on this land
    Exhausted is the realm of nature, friends are dying
    The living creatures on our side
    The way I see myself so confused so sophisticated
    I have to stay away from me
    But I still don’t get the point
    What’s worth destroying all the worlds
    Try not to get it anymore

    You burn yourself, set fire for good
    We die eyes closed, dig our own grave now
    Tossed in the blaze naked on the flame
    Lost with no pride, drowned in the filth
    The giant snake is coming down to eat our heads
    and the flood will kill us, Mantus is rising from under

    The way I see things is so simple
    The fact I’m living dying on this land
    Exhausted is the realm of nature, friends are dying
    The living creatures on our side
    The way I see myself so confused so sophisticated
    Don’t have to stay away from me
    But I still don’t get the point
    What’s worth destroying all the worlds

  • Good morning, all.

    Patricia, Bob, thanks.

    Bob, we need to talk someday…

    Erica, I saw “in the real world”, after borrowing it from the SF public library. Twice, liked it very much. The guy is a character, moving at his own rythm, most of the movie is shot “cinema-verite” style, whatever is there, is recorded, then all these “theres” are edited. Not a docu, by any means.

    the interaction between the family reminds me of a cross between “10 000 maniacs” and some aliens who would have come to earth, and forgot they did, and why. Most likely to shoot pictures one could see an alien (aren’t we all?) shoot.

    In sum, delicious. You will love it. Bob too, if you have not seen it, buy it, you won’t regret.

  • Hey guys, I have a question.

    I get e-mails asking to use some of my pix, with full credit, but often, no money.

    If it’s an individual with do-gooding attitude I just ask them to send some money to a charity of their choice, on the honor roll, as David would say.

    But if a publication, I now simply refuse if they do not pay, following what has been said here : do not give your work. Now, some brazilian buddhist magazine is asking one to use in connection with Tibetan protests and UN actions. I don’t think it makes a difference, should still go by the “don’t give” principle.

    Do you agree?



    Your own poem? If so, I applaud you. You say it like it is, and what you say is what we as a people and as individuals need to hear.

    May I put on my editor’s hat for a minute? Your words will be stronger if you eliminate every “all” and “so.” Wherever you can eliminate “the” will also add to the punch. Sometimes that can be done by changing a singular noun to plural, as in “and floods will kill us…”

    Hope I haven’t offended you. If your words weren’t essential to our survival, I wouldn’t bother. But they are. And that’s why I’ve taken the chance.


  • The other day I was on a public PC and I went to David’s homepage here, and instead of the single shot in the blue stairwell, the page was divided into thumbnails in columns and rows of different work, and I think the last EPF submissions were handled differently. Is that the way it should look, or did I stumble upon some testing that’s not quite finished yet? Anyway, I get the traditional site here – just wondered if a PC was reading things differently than my Mac.

  • ALL..a question..

    we’ve touched on this before, but (I’m in the thick of this now) with the amount of time/energy/money it requires to fully invest in a personal photo project, I often feel self indulgent and it is hard to reconcile the investment with the outcome..for me, this internal dialogue clearly has to do with working on projects that are not ‘of service to humanity’ in a directly evident concern is that my life would be better spent if I were relieving another’s suffering in a tangible fashion. I do feel there is much merit in the type of photography I am doing, allowing others to be seen, but I am sitting here now, scanning my life away..I am not lost or in crisis, just trying to make sense of living this life that I don’t know how not to live. This is my way of being in the world, my passion, and I wont walk away from that, but I have to allow it its highest and fullest incarnation..and i haven’t figured out how to do that yet.

    do you struggle with the same?

  • ALL including David McGowan

    If you ever want to see how a site looks on piratically any system and browser configuration try:

    Here is what David’s website looks like on different platforms:

    David McGowan, what you probably saw was an issue with browser version or css styling changed on the browser

    -= { ( .)_(. ) } =-

  • David McG:

    I’ve been meaning to ask you the title/artist of the music you used for “Maid Marian”…it’s very cool…

    ..and I’ve been meaning to tell you I love it…a natural, relaxed warmth and beauty shines through it…


  • Andrew,
    Thanks, that’s very kind. The music is “Rebel Rebel” sung by Seu Jorge from “The Life Aquatic” soundtrack.

  • karim
    was that your poem? i thought you were transcribing lyrics..

    i think there are more subtle ways of contributing to understanding and people than photographing suffering or conflict – portraits such as you shoot are a particularly astute way of doing just that.
    i do not see your work as self indulgent in the slightest.. you are focusing on others all the time and despite their expression being a reflection of your interaction with them i think they contribute much more than many projects.

    it is an interesting question – one i have meditated on before since the ‘cost’ of doing my work has been great both in material and philosophical ways..
    the way i have reconciled concerns has been to think from another perspective.. get some distance from the work and see it as others may see it.

    the human condition will always include wildly differing circumstances and whatever area a photographer chooses to focus on will contribute in some way to a better understanding of relative reality and others.. it is all important stuff and it’s great to hear your already well established passion will not dissipate over time… because that is an important feature of being a photographer.. time.. the more you invest (of the most important thing we invest) the better your work will be.. the better the work, the wider the audience then the more potential to inspire.

    work continues to grow long after it has been completed.. obviously.. and so the more thorough we are with our projects, the more they will grow over time..

    another point is to remember that it is not always by photographing the actual suffering / human concern that we best serve the subjects we are trying to help (if that’s what our motivation is)..

    photography and our own perspective might always be self indulgent to present.. and i guess what art does not come from some self indulgence, from a specific view or personal perspective..
    for me the more interesting the perspective and the harder the artists works, the more ‘convincing’ the final outcome and the more inspiring the effort.

    as someone who has plowed every penny, every spare moment and every indulgence into snaps for as long as i can remember, it is a question i have asked myself over and over.. and on occasions when my personal life has heavily suffered for my love of seeing i conclude just the same way that you have..
    ‘ This is my way of being in the world, my passion, and I wont walk away from that’

    to allow it it highest incarnation i think takes time.. all the time we can afford.. since it’s only over time that we develop, intellectually and practically, within our practice.
    otherwise, are we not just shooting from the hip and inventing passion? real passion does not require explanation – since it speaks for itself.. and the viewer will not need convincing of the beliefs behind the work.

  • ERICA…

    “service to humanity” i think has many incarnations…part of it can perhaps come from your work…some can come from directly helping others i.e. community service projects or in just making someone feel better that day…

    if you feel you are “living a life you do not know how not to live”, you are probably on the right track…photographs cannot do all things for all people, but can provide everything from enlightenment to entertainment…either of which can spark someone somewhere to “action” or , at least, to think about someone or someplace in a different light…

    when Colin Powell made his pro Obama speech on television last weekend, he referred to a “photographic essay” on a Muslim U.S. Army soldier who had died in Iraq…you may remember it was clearly the most powerful point in his speech with a clear cry for some of us to understand the rest of us…

    even though Powell’s example was truly a clear cut and dramatic one, i think that one way or another photographs do their unique part to show the faces of humanity to others in a very special way…this does not preclude any of us helping a blind woman cross the street or to contribute to a homeless shelter or to spend an extra hour with a friend in need…but, if you have the “gift” of being able to show even “the man on the street” in a new light, i believe you are “doing your bit”…

    good on you….

    cheers, david

  • /\ too right !

    in adition erica – i love the way you express yourself regarding self doubt and more pensive subjects of thought..

    in terms of balance – you have it.. and in terms of photography i think social portraiture is one of the most powerful testaments for change..

    as david says above, about platons work, the effects are unseen and far reaching..

  • Erica,
    Take a big picture look at it. What you’re doing now may enable you to be more available later. You may have to travel lighter in the future, but it sounds like you’re likely to combine your portraiture with service, and that will be exciting work. Just consider that your kindness will be better enabled after you get this project under your belt.

  • ALL….

    i have just arrived in New York from Virginia and North Carolina….i have an ad shoot on friday…a good one really , Feeding America, a non-profit client, through Ogilvy agency…b&w and loose….then off to Mexico saturday morning..i will try to do a post before i leave, but i must admit to being busier than “normal”…or, is there “normal”?? well, whatever…i am having a lot of fun right now and what more can anyone ask???? i would in fact invite all of you down to Mexico, but i am now so so afraid you would all show up!!! teasing amigos…anyway, back soonest with something for you to think about…

    hugs, david

  • thanks guys..

    I think my weeks of being sick and now having trouble seeing out of my left eye (fighting a migraine) while trying to scan and keep up are making me a bit myopic about all this..everything you say is true, and it would be right of me to remember..and i deeply appreciate the words..

    as long as the ‘spilling’ is happening, can i also add that it can be really frustrating to be able to see very clearly the gap in one’s own work..the gap between what I want / intend and what I end up with..I know there are more productive things to do than to compare myself with other photographers, but I have moved from this place of seeing the ‘greats’ as gods, and have begun to think of their work as the fruit of their efforts, talents, vision, commitments, etc..and in seeing the gap of my own work not being as I wish as something that must be closed..I feel content with what I am doing photographically on one hand, but I don’t have the patience for myself right now for it to be anything less than what I intend..if I can feel it in my heart and see it in my head, I feel as if should be able to make it happen..

    am I going mad? i have never really felt frustrated like this before, it’s a good kind of frustration, but it’s a new drive to have the work be “great” (to my own standards)..not for me as a photographer per se to be “great”..honestly I don’t think i could carry on as a photographer if, sometime soon, the work itself isn’t going to move me in the same way that work of others i deeply admire does (and as i don’t know how to live without photo, it had better happen)..there is so much talent i the world already..and I don’t want to fall short of mine; I don’t mean to be elitist in this, I hope this doesn’t come out the wrong way… just can’t accept anything less from myself, and it is frustrating that i still have to..does anyone feel this as well?


    are you in sunny Oaxaca, helping me all the way from there?

  • erica – you’re not being elitist :o)
    you’re thinking at a higher level than most.. being particular about the theoretic or philosophical is a great sign that you are well over the fundamentals.. brilliant.. fresh..
    i can only speak personally..
    we can only change the world by changing our eyes.. and our thoughts..
    the harder i have worked, the less i have bullshitted and the more genuine my thoughts for others have become, the more i have looked at my heros and rather than admire a photograph or a simple book, i have begun to admire the effort..
    heros feel less like gods and more like peers when we put the work in.. break our backs and break our understanding of ourselves and what we are trying to do..
    make our ego’s like sponges.. forget trappings.. complaints.. rewards and operate with the soul intention of helping those around us and spend our time in a way which allows us to express our love for the world through our work.

    i guess working within music destroyed any kind of ‘groupie’ mentality within me..
    and through some astonishingly good evenings spent with some utterly dedicated people i have been lucky to see through the fog of mysticism which seems to surround some well known people and understand them more simply – as hard working people who, for whatever reason, have been thrust into the public eye.

    there is an alarming contemporary trend to seek fame.. in photography.. music.. writing.. and that is completely at odds with the nature of creative work.

    it is easy to become famous / infamous / notorious.. a few well directed obnoxious acts.. words.. hang out in the right place.

    it is difficult to live as we want to live and gain rewards for our hard work, without reducing ourselves to sycophancy or selling our dream for a nicer flat.. car.. phone.

    the former kind of ‘well known’ musicians have a short life span, while the later creates work which will live on when they are dust.

    finding the gaps in your work, erica, is the fine-tuning visible around someone who is REALLY doing it, as far as i am concerned..

  • Erica

    What type of films you use?

  • thanks you DAVID..eloquent and helpful..


    for what in particular? different film for different reasons..

  • Mostly. Righ now.
    4×5 tri-x?


    for this project, which was mostly medium format (not the 4×5 which has turned out to be a very small part, I may not even use it) tri-x..the 4×5 was HP5


    every time i try to take some time off, i get pulled right back in (remember Pacino in godfather III? ;)) )….

    ok sister, everything that David (ah), David (b), pete have suggested, i sent to you…but maybe you need a quick shot of metta and medicine, so im here to give i to you….

    ok, first, remember what the buddha said:

    “Your work is to discover your work and then with all your heart to give yourself to it.”

    you know as well as i that our true nature, our buddha nature, is to love the world, to relieve suffering and to make mindfulness the path along which we follow. But you must also remember that in order to love the world, in order to help the world be at peace, in order to help relieve suffering of others, you must begin with yourself: love yourself, reflect upon the breath, know that you are here and awak and live:

    i am alive and i know i am alive….

    and you also know that part of that, part of turning aside the suffering that is each of our and everyone of our lives is to also understand the 8-fold path…and as that which concerns “work”…Right Livlihood, being one of them, I see absolutely NO contradiction to what you are doing with that, in fact, you have an obligation to pursue ….but ok, not everyone is a buddhist, so ok, this:

    the relief of suffering of others: metta, tonglin…

    You are a remarkably loving person. You opened your home to me and marina without the slightest idea of the kind of people we are: you trust us, you gave your time and your home and your family to provide us a home for our pilgrimage and you asked for NOTHING in return but that we be happy and at peace. Without your remarkable generosity, Marina and I WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GO TO NY. We could not have afforded to stay in ny and because of your Dana we made the trip. The trip was incredibly important to us and it helped our lives profoundly. We have become closer to all of you who we met (you, mike, lance, panos, patricia, jason, etc). We finally got to talk, and see and hug David. And because of NY and all surrounding it, David and I actually became CLOSER and BETTER friends because of it and the week after. That would not have been possible had we not come.

    Your photography alleviates suffering. You have a remarkable ability to be open and loving to people. You inspire and attract and warm to people, unconditionally. Your portraits always open eyes and reflect the love that you have for the living. People gain remarkable pleasure from your work: it settles them, it calms them, it makes them feel alive and joyeous to be part of this creaking place we call life! People are drawn to your work and drawn to the people in your work. Moreover, the people you photograph feel honored and cherished, that is so obvious. You allow them recognition and celebration and for a moment, you give them the gift and understanding that their lives MEAN SOMETHING, they mean something to you: their faces, their voices, their humanity. This is the definition of Metta. You give them,not photographs, but love and celebration.

    Each of us has an obligation to try to understand or reconcile this life and there is not real solution but the path that each pilgrim chooses to navigate. Remember the quote from St.Exp i left on David’s last post…we’re all pilgrims, all suffering and all in search of the alleviation of that, the final destination: to find peace with ourselves and this world.

    Photography means many things to many people and no NOT ONE photographer,not you, not me, not David not Nachtwey, no one, can save the world, nor can we save another person with it, but what we can do is illuminate the world, just as the concentration of the breath illuminates for us our mind, our simplicity, our of-the-moment self, shatters the illusion. PHotography, when it is an extension of who you are, not matter what kind of photography (reportage, documentary, portraiture, fine art, commericial, fashion, conceptual, porn (why not, as long as it’s concensual), family snaps), if the intent is to be part of your voice, to reflect the world, to reflect your place and the place of others, than it is all good…

    you cannot separate the day from the night, life from death, and so each and every part that a person plays in this world is important. NGO, social workers, philanthropists, monks, nuns, preachers, whores, pimps, teachers, killers, singers, lovers, parents, scouters, each and every person sings the dharma…

    your photography is as important as the the world being done in outreach programs, people feeding the sick and malnourished, people housing the homeless, doctors medicated the ill and hurting…your work is there because each of us can only do good if we are true to our nature, if we work to alleviate suffering by harnessing the best of who we are with what small gifts we were given…

    i mean, who the fuck cares about my own stupid, messay, abstract, pain-filled work…no one, but i do…because i know i must sing that song in order to concentrate on the importance of all that is around me…

    you bring so much light to people’s lives…that, my dear, should be enough to tell you this:

    get the fuck back to the breath, and get your ass in love with your work…

    we need it…

    “Better than a thousand hollow words, is one word that brings peace.”

    word: METTA



    the only response I have to that is my breath, and a smile..xo

  • Erica

    Tomorrow I am going to buy films I have ordered for my trip to thailand. You know I am deptor of this community and You have mentioned a few times about your stuggles.
    I will have not enough money tomorrow for all, but I would like to buy for you a few films now, and next a few before or after my trip. So after a two weeks or a month from now I would like sent you some films for this or next project. Whatever you want.
    I know it’s hard to agree, but I did it.
    so what films I should buy for you tomorrow?

    This is no problem just pleasure

  • Mike,

    Also had a good time chatting with you at DAH’s! Glad that Patricias’ picture helped you out… I too have a harsh time with memories ;(

    as Panos
    would put it: “What a drag it is… getting old…
    …Doctor please, some more of these
    Outside the door, she took four more
    What a drag it is getting old” (Rolling stones).


    Though my future plans don’t include T.O, I’ll be sure to take you up on that offer! Yeah, and be sure to drop by next time you manage courageously to hop on a bus to NYC ;))
    I do TOTALLY agree with the “more talk, less crowd” of a photog gathering ;))))


    That night at DAH’s, when I met Mike, I told him that I just didn’t understand how bloggers here, especially you (amongst Bob, Panos, Patricia, etc – and David A. Harvey!) were so involved and seemed to be “always” here… It still amazes me.
    We laughed and, as we saw you on th other side of the room, I said: “Wa, Erica’s just so friendly and puts everyone at ease so naturally… With her skills and love of photography, she’d probably be a great photog agent!”
    Mike laughed and seemed to agree totally…
    Reading your last post, I think you oughta keep holding on that feeling : “living a life you do not know how not to live” ! Not everyone can even say that, so I agree with DAH, you are probably on the right track!

    Just hang tight till this cold blows away, your thoughts will clear-up…(hot milk, losta honey and to bed) ;))

    haven’t had the time to properly talk but let me send you this: Hughs & warmth !


    French loose / English tight ???
    There, I’d have to agree with Paul for the english humour ;)
    my 2¢…

    David A.H.,

    Where do you get all that positive stuff?!?
    I read your post and I smiled, though it was for Erica ;)))
    Maybe it’s the reason this blog works so well? Maybe that’s what Chris A. & Alec S. are searching for in Magnum’s ?
    You must be a guru, you know ?

    best to all,

  • Patricia

    No it was not a personal poem, they were the lyrics that went with the Gojira youtube link I posted.

  • Bob

    I don’t know if you remember me asking you those Holga questions? But will finally be picking one up next week….. Really looking forward to it!!!

    Also; have you seen Chris Anderson’s book “Nonfiction”? All shot with a Holga!!



    I read your question a couple hours ago and wanted to sit with it awhile before I answered.

    The concerns you raise have been shared by artists throughout the ages. Many, but not all, cultures (and religions) teach that there is no calling higher than alleviating the suffering of others. This is usually seen as offering a tangible service involving one’s time and attention. Volunteering such direct service is prized most highly of all.

    So where does that leave artists, photographers, musicians, dancers, filmmakers, writers? Are the gifts we share “less than” those of healers, welfare workers, missionaries, philanthropists? Can art serve humanity and if so, how?

    These are questions no one can answer for us. Each must answer for her/himself. But hearing how another artist grapples with this issue can help us find our own way.

    I’m old in years, having now spent over 67 years on this planet (counting the 12 months before my 1st birthday). I’ve had many incarnations: social worker, hospital & school volunteer, board member of a social agency, visual & performance artist, art therapist, teacher, peace activist, writer, and now photographer. In each, I was involved with people. Even as an artist I was deeply committed to and active in the running of an artist’s co-op gallery here in Detroit. Each incarnation had opportunities for me to impact the lives of others, but more importantly, to BE IMPACTED by others myself. And the learnings from each incarnation carried over to the next.

    Yes, some of the works I’ve done were obviously of service, as defined by our culture. While others, especially those under the umbrella of art, were more nuanced in what they offered to our world. But I’ve come to believe that art, when it opens people’s eyes and hearts to different ways of being in the world, is as transformative a tool for peace and harmony as any I know. When I feed someone who is hungry, I give them temporary relief. But when I show someone the effects of hunger on individuals and/or groups of people, I can ignite a fire that will send them off to do whatever they can to break the CYCLE of hunger.

    In the work you are doing right now, Erica, I see each of your photos and interviews as not only being healing and empowering for your subjects, but as a testament to a way of life and a neighborhood that will soon be changed beyond recognition. You are carrying this witness in your hands with every photo you scan. What you have before you is a chapter of history that could have been lost forever. If this isn’t service to others, I don’t know what is.

    I say, take your time. This work needs and requires lots of time and attention. And you will just have to trust us on this, Erica. Every moment of frustration and discouragement is essential to the process, for you are a sorceress conjuring up a new way of seeing and being. Your work is what our world needs in this place and time. You are not standing in front of that scanner alone. We are with you.

    Thank you, dear one, for sharing your soul’s cry and asking these questions. You have given each of us a gift by doing so.

    much love

  • Erica, just ask yourself: are you dancing or are you walking?

    I bet you that’s what Bob replied (just dropping by, can’t read all) except i can do it in 2 lines, moi! :-))))

    Answer: if you dance, good, very centrifugal, world follows . If you walk, not bad, there is always a point A to B I suppose, but really looks like work… I prefer dancing.



    I was going to apologize anyway for my unasked-for editing. Sometimes I can be SO frigging officious!!!



    Just so you don’t miss this post from Eric. It was hidden WAY BACK…

    DAVID and ALL-

    I have not been present as often over the past days as I have been working hard on trying to complete my Boxing Essay for the EPF assignment. I have just added at least 50% of new pictures since David and I did an edit back in Perpignan. I have taken these new shots over the past month (actually shot primarily during one week). Importantly, when not shooting, following David’s advice, I have interviewed all these boxers, young and not so young, to try to penetrate their lifes a bit more… While it will take me a while to do a MultiMedia piece (Erica, I am sure you will complete yours way before me!!!!), I still went through several hours of tapes that I have recorded of conversations I have had and I have extracted some quotes that I have added in the slideshow.

    The essay is now called “LORDS OF THE RING”…

    Please go to the index page (link underneath) and at the top under new Lords of the ring, you will find it.

    Obviously, I look forward to all of your comments and of those of David as well. Ultimately, I will do a tighter edit and probably rework parts of it for final submission but I wanted to share where this stands as some of you have been asking me some questions in private e-mail. For perspective, I have kept some pictures of some more “famous” Cincinnati Olympians who are not my best shots but I wanted to also show these guys for the overall story and share some of their quotes…

    Hope you enjoy it. Will eagerly wait now….



    Posted by: Eric Espinosa | October 18, 2008 at 10:27 PM

  • You are all just so darn beautiful..really..what a place this is..thank you..

    I’ve just taken a walk..think I am going to bake a cake; the wind is blowing hard and it is cold outside, nothing like the oven and some sweetness to take off the chill..and will TRY to close the giant Avedon book that has been open on my kitchen table for some time now.

    Marcin, I am are right, my instinct is to say no, this is not necessary, but I feel your goodwill and desire to move the next bit I can only thank you, 120 tri x 400 is the film of choice..strangely, coincidentally, I was recently moved to give some film to DAH for his family project, so there it is, a circle

    Herve, I’ve always said dance is the best therapy..

    Patricia, you are right, these are not my questions alone, which is why I posted them here..thank you for recognizing that.

    Bob, on my walk just now I watched the leaves blowing in the wind :)

    Tanguy, you have been on my mind of late; simply the fact that we spoke for only a moment, and then i don’t know what happened…but I have been feeling a bit remiss that we didn’t have the chance to talk more, I am sorry. I think I wouldn’t mind being an agent, but later please…but I think it would feel more like a well intentioned matchmaker position..

    David B, you are teetering between smart and wise, watch out..


    You probably don’t have time to answer this, but am musing over your words (last thread) that ‘subject matter is important’, in context with doing one’s ‘bit’ by showing the man on the street in a new light..and though I didn’t respond to your comment in the last thread re subject matter / Africa, I was listening carefully..

    I just need to figure some things is interesting you mention Africa..had you asked me what I was going to do when I grew up up when I was six, I would have said very clearly..I am going to take care of the orphans in Africa..

  • Erica, you don’t have children right? If not then now is the time to indulge yourself. Now, while you have the youthful vitality and maturity combined. These two do not overlap for very long really. For now this project is your child. It’s your reason for being. And scanning, unfortunately, is all part of the process of getting this work done. However, the scanning time can be a great time to be inside your own head quite completely focusing on the work you’ve done and have yet to do. Run with it.

    Remember too that you are serving humanity by making your work available to those who will follow in the years and, one hopes, the generations to follow. It’s all about informing future generations about how we lived. Our era.

    So, be strong my dear and keep the faith. And do good work. As you do.


    i just cannot say enough about you and your work….i remember when we were in Italy and you were less than enthusiastic about moving to the “boring city of Cincinnati”…

    well, my friend you prove almost every point that i ever try to get across to an aspiring photographer..

    you have chosen a subject in your own backyard….you have done it on your own time and while holding down a full time job and raising a family….you have always maintained a positive attitude and “just done it” come hell or high water….you take criticism as way to “grow”….you have chosen a title that “works” and from which you can “hang” all new work…

    yours will be one of the first essays i would envision publishing in our new on line magazine….

    Cincinnati looks like not such a bad place to be after all…

    please call me when you have time….


    perhaps this is why you are so drawn to Fazal…strong portraiture with a “mission” that is upfront and obvious…i can see that….

    well, let this all steep for awhile…perhaps you do need to document someone or someplace that needs help NOW….but, i would suggest that you finish what you have started first…sail your own boat..we all have “other things” we think we should do or should be doing…do not allow your “next project” to interfere with what you are doing…this is a common diversion and mistake and one of the reasons why people do not “finish”…

    believe me, i hear you…and this thinking could manifest itself into something for the future…

    the process for self discovery is not a straight line….you are doing just fine, AND there is more to come…


  • ERICA,
    What can I say.. Only that I think I know the feeling. I feel the same way most of the time. BUT you’re way ahead of me and probably 99% of the other people on this blog. That’s what I think.
    Looking at your own work too much makes you tired and scanning, won’t comment on that. I’ve sold my scanners after a couple of months two times around and chosen the dark path (digital)..just kidding ;)


  • erica

    one problem with having not met you all.. which hopefully i will..
    then, with a bar full of vodka, Kahlua and cream, i can prove that i’m neither smart nor wise..
    i have just listened to myself and learn’t when i’ve fucked up.

    it’s just breaking big challenges into small pleasures along the way and living as best we can – thoughtfully.
    i really enjoy your posts erica..

    i knew a radio one dj called john peel… used to run into him around festivals and was lucky enough to sit in on his show, have dinner – even share a taxi to a gig on one occasion, nattering about the orb..
    he was a lovely, lovely man.. a quick humor and ability to avoid fools.. very good company with a couple of bottles of red wine.

    people thought he was famous because he ‘discovered’ bowie.. t-rex and more..
    i knew him to be a successful human being for much more illustrious reasons.
    when he was working in estonia he met a dj there.. the dj was playing with tape to tape.. big reel tapes.. at a party, because he could not afford records.
    john met the guy.. recognized his passion and then, when he had returned to england, he sent back a pallet of records.. hundreds.. an instant record collection and with each record noted in the top corner with his own hand.. length of tune, style, quality..
    his own records.
    i met the dj later in the year while i was in estonia, where he was playing at a free party in a disused toy factory… and the story solidified the reasons for john being a legend.
    once, in the studio in barcelona while doing his show from sonar festival, john put on a record he had been given which he had not even heard..
    it being a lice show, the producer said,
    ‘what if it’s shit?’
    and john just said they could fade it out..

    a really open heart is the only thing i have ever found in common with successful musicians from whatever generation, and it’s the realization that they can help people – with whatever they do – that has made them great…
    it’s a wonderful thing to see the same thing happening in photography, now that i am looking at photography rather than music again.

    2 quotes from the EXCELLENT ‘waking life’ by richard linklater

    Guy Forsyth:
    The trick is to combine your waking rational abilities with the infinite possibilities of your dreams. Because, if you can do that, you can do anything.

    Quiet Woman at Restaurant:
    When it was over, all I could think about was how this entire notion of oneself, what we are, is just this logical structure, a place to momentarily house all the abstractions. It was a time to become conscious, to give form and coherence to the mystery, and I had been a part of that. It was a gift. Life was raging all around me and every moment was magical. I loved all the people, dealing with all the contradictory impulses – that’s what I loved the most, connecting with the people. Looking back, that’s all that really mattered.

  • ‘it being a live show’, and not ‘it being a lice show’..

    i’m with paul as well..
    have babies..
    they are amazing.

    please – everyone that wants to, have them.

  • Have them if you can. They’ll make your photography better. They did mine. And I’ll show you some new work along those lines shortly.


    I have about two seconds ‘cos I am trying desperately to get the ‘Beautiful Music’ footage from the doco transferred to disc, which is a big expensive job and I haven’t slept for two days and I am as always a step off being evicted….

    I have to echo what DAH said, you are doing fine, your work is beautiful and it opens my eyes to the human state, the infinite possibilities of people to be loving caring cold desolate cruel brilliant traumatized mad calm peaceful….

    I don’t think I need to go on… you ‘get it’ I know…

    As human beings we all have the infinite capacity for all emotions, thoughts and actions… Some suffer because they don’t have enough food, some because they have too much- any exploration of people, as you do in your work, is valid and valuable because it focuses on who we are as a species and expresses that humanity and leads someone who is seeing that work into that exploration of who we are as well…

    And then when you have people de-mystifying or un-demonising other people then you can forge a common ground of understanding emotion thought and action and there you go you have started a movement that may make someone elses life better…

    Now that’s probably scrambled (lack of sleep and rucshing) and I know I have been incandescent with rage recently about the time it takes for things to change- (PANOS I too committed career suicide in the form of abusing the judges of the Walkley Awards for not having a single image even nominated of the HISTORIC APOLOGY to Aboriginal people… the single most important issue in this country and they white washed it…ARRRGGGHHHH!!!!)- but change they do- slowly and inexorably sometimes…

    So ERICA don’t worry -what you are doing is honing your art, as we all are constantly doing- and when your visual voice is clear as that of a bell-bird, someone will see it and go yes I understand and I will make someone else’s life better because of that image…

    Er, its a bit wafty but if I had time I would write it better…

    Now about multi-media, just from my recent experience I have to say that it becomes more evident when you have all of the material in front of you, I am trying to do too many things as always but I am going to do a little part of ‘Beautiful Music’ as an internet presentation and it is a completely different approach to still images in a magazine or book OR video documentary for TV or Cinema. I have all the materials to do all three but I think they all require different brain spaces.

    What you do need I think is a central story and then you can work around that, the edit becomes really obvious as you are going through it.

    Look its all new turf for me and I could make a dogs breakfast of it, but I have been working on ‘Beautiful Music- Murri Gubba Yougal’ for about a year now and so its all coming to a head but I guess you just have to keep that central theme, story, concept really clearly somewhere. (In fact that’s the first time I have run the two titles together and thats as a result of seiing about a third of the video footage I have shot)

    In my case its written, photographed and recorded but its ALL stored in my head, so now I have little bits that fit with this and that and are making it work…

    My issue is always with funding, I have sunk about six months of solid work into this and at least $4K of my own money so if you feel like alleviating someone’s suffering you could start with me!!!! (hehehehehehe… JUST JOKING!!!!)

    What is interesting now that I have just written this, I have just realized that I can do a wide release on TV, in mags and on the net as well as slap some of this stuff in a gallery….

    WOW, thanks ERICA you have just helped me work out how I want to present this stuff…

    Rambling now, gotta get this camera back to Metroscreen otherwise they will cahrge me more…

  • DAVID,

    I am just coming back home from a dinner out and was so pleased to find your message. As you can imagine, I was a bit anxious to know what you would think… We talked so much about finding a good title together and interviewing these boxers that it is great to know that you think the essay is working overall… I will try to reach you over the next couple of days, before you head to Mexico…. None of this David would have been possible without your direction and coaching and the passion you create in all of us!!!!


    I just saw that you shared my message again with David so that he would not miss my post upon his return in NY… This is such a nice gesture Patricia! Your heart is bigger than this world!!! Thanks for watching after me :):):).


  • Just a quick note (1), Pete’s 37th frame had a feature on Orlando Barria.

    Love the work, Havana, Haiti, really good stuff, superb colours (this guy naps until 5PM like David, Alex W and you too, Eric E.? :-) ):

    (1) Busy doing a major assignment, self-. A mammoth unforgiving undertaking…. Cleaning my place! Ok, I will shoot before and after, but you would have to pay dearly to see “before”…. ;-)


    i could not agree more….having babies is the most unconditional love going…i am truly happy for you …and your bride!!!

    cheers, david

  • David Bowen

    Thank u fr looking @ the photographs n fr d comments … m plnin to work on a larger essay … nt sure if i wnt to strt wit these ones … yh mumbai is a gr8 city … bt it does gt really crazy sometimes …lik recently they shut down d city fr lik 10 hrs ..coz they arrested som politician ..who doesnt wnt non mumbaikars wrkin in d city …cn u bliv tht ….david i saw on ur web page …tht u hav been to arambole beach … i had been thr lik earlier this month …. its still one of d best beaches in GOA … do u pln to go to goa again ?

  • Erica


    120 tri x 400
    Order on their way. I will try sent you films before my departure, but if not I will do it right after come back.
    e-mail me address

    It is big pleasure and honor.


  • “…………’it being a live show’, and not ‘it being a lice show’..

    i’m with paul as well..
    have babies…….( BABIES ????????????????? ))))))))))
    they are amazing. ( AMAZING ?????????? )

    please – everyone that wants to, have them…….”

    Posted by: david bowen | October 22, 2008 at 06:35 PM

    “…Have them ( BABIES )…if you can. They’ll make your photography better. They did mine. And I’ll show you some new work along those lines shortly.

    Posted by: Paul Treacy | October 22, 2008 at 06:42 PM

    JESUS…… babies….??????

    make your photography ???? better ?????????


    that reminds me of :

    “……Between 1651 and 1740 hundreds of fables, fable collections, and biographies of the ancient Greek slave Aesop were published in England. Jayne Elizabeth Lewis decribes the explosion of interest in fable from its origins…”

    PEOPLE, please open your eyes…
    get EDUCATED god damn…
    wake up….

    this earth is OVERPOPULATED by SELFISH PARENTS AND … their precious babies…….


    you so easily insulted selfish motherfuckers !!!!!!)

    stop counseling…

    “The Fox Who Had Lost His Tail”
    A Fox caught in a trap escaped, but in so doing lost his tail. Thereafter, feeling his life a burden from the shame and ridicule to which he was exposed, he schemed to convince all the other Foxes that being tailless was much more attractive, thus making up for his own deprivation. He assembled a good many Foxes and publicly advised them to cut off their tails, saying that they would not only look much better without them, but that they would get rid of the weight of the brush, which was a very great inconvenience. One of them interrupting
    him said, “If you had not yourself lost your tail, my friend, you would not thus counsel us.”


    The Fox Without a Tail

    It happened that a Fox caught its tail in a trap, and in struggling to release himself lost all of it but the stump. At first he was ashamed to show himself among his fellow foxes. But at last he determined to put a bolder face upon his misfortune, and summoned all the foxes to a general meeting to consider a proposal which he had to place before them. When they had assembled together the Fox proposed that they should all do away with their tails. He pointed out how inconvenient a tail was when they were pursued by their enemies, the dogs; how much it was in the way when they desired to sit down and hold a friendly conversation with one another. He failed to see any advantage in carrying about such a useless encumbrance. “That is all very well,” said one of the older foxes; “but I do not think you would have recommended us to dispense with our chief ornament if you had not happened to lose it yourself.”

    …… having babies ????????
    please……. dont make it look cool…
    its an extra problem to our society…..
    definitely a usual accident…
    all, keep your “tequila products”… for yourselves…..

    nothing to do with art or photography…….
    take care of your “accidents” and dont confuse them with ART…


    photography has nothing to do with your erratic behavior…….
    this earth is overpopulated…..
    “think” before you fuck, …
    or “think” before you drink…
    or how about, “THINK” in general…
    enough with your “MISTAKES”…
    stop glamorizing your weakness…….


    or keep your mouth shut…..

  • …………. have more babies……. its 2008………..
    have more babies…………
    what an advice……
    have more babies……

    fuck it…….


    severely ignorant shit…..

  • Such venom. What’s going on Panos?

  • Stupidest rant Ive ever seen here. Maybe its good this blog is shutting down, it will take the stage from self obsessed attention seekers with chips on their shoulders and a mouthfull of crap.

  • This blog is shutting down? I’ve missed something while I was away, obviously. Please say it’s not so?

    Hey DAVID ALAN HARVEY, did you read my post about PhotoShelter? It just might be an option for taking this thing forward. Just a suggestion.

  • HERVE’

    i want to answer your question about giving away your work for free or not.
    Having been an illustrator for 20 years i was asked many times to give an image for publication without receiving any fees.
    I used to be very generous but at some point i decided it was time to change the rules.
    The most important thing is to try and understand if those asking for using your work are really unable to pay or if they are cheating.
    Sometimes apparently they have the money for paying everything but the images they publish, maybe thinking you’ve already done the job, so it’s not really an effort for you to let them use it.
    Besides some people wouldnt even say thank you; on the contrary they’d think you had been lucky to have your picture on their magazine, postcard or whatever.
    So in the end, i would say NO 9 out of 10 times.
    However….the Tibetan cause is an important issue, forgotten by the media in these last months. If you could get some information about them and verify these people are a serious organization…
    and probably they really have no money.

  • Just read a few delirious posts signed “Panos”.
    It cant be the real Panos….i hope….
    Otherwise please stop taking drugs, it’s not good for your brain.

  • Obviously it wasnt Panos who wrote the previous message…
    How come you can misuse other bloggers’ names?

  • vivek

    i hope you do a larger project.. from trhe way you shoot – many pictures to get the few good ones.. you’re talented, obviously..
    what interests you photographically?

    goa was in 97.. i spent lots of time in india in the 90’s..
    in 87 goa was ‘cleaning’ itself up.. massive hotels coming to life.. mass tourism was what i tried to photograph.. and cows.. i love cows.. such good models.
    one interesting thing i found in goa at the time was that goans were having to divide their time – serve the tourists during the season, and then farm at other times.. which i heard made life difficult..
    there was also a lack of patience, especially with the police, for free parties.. especially around school exam time when parties would go on till early morning.. drugged hippes making the place look untidy for tourists and disturbing for the children..

    i hope to return to india.. always.. :o)


    you know.. i’m not going to dignify that ramble.. madness.. with a reply.

    thanks for the considered advice.. you’re a genius.

  • Jim Merithew talks to Jean Francois LeRoy on Perpignan:

    “They like to print Britney Spears. Angelina Jolie has twins isn’t that amazing news, oh my god. Michael Phelps wow what a star, I don’t give a shit,”

    “Nobody cares about the technology. It is easier. Now you have auto-focus. It is becoming very difficult to make a bad picture, very difficult. But who cares about technology. Did he use digital? Did he use film? Who cares?” is his response. “If Stanley Greene is using the same camera as you or I, he will make a better picture, because he has the eye. I can say that because I was such a bad photographer. The most important thing is the way you look.”

  • Thats kind of nasty RAFAL…

    Everyone is allowed to voice their opinion and just because you have a different viewpoint doesn’t mean you get to make comments of a personal and insulting nature…

    If you don’t agree with the rant why not argue your case here? It seems to me that there have been plenty of rants before that haven’t upset anyone particularly but maybe you have taken this one personally because with a body of work called ‘Family Ties’ and ‘Home Sweet Home’ that revolves around your child and family- well you would wouldn’t you?

    I do think its personal invective that stuffs up blogs, forums etc. We can hide behind the shield of the computer and call names (me, I like to be face to face when I am being insulting) but why this place has always worked for me is because I have always felt that people weren’t like that, that we could always rise above a personal misunderstanding or difference and support one another…

    Now I know it can be annoying listening to rants and we are all vulnerable to that and some rants are very insenstive


    you wing-nut, have some tact, David B has only just had his first baby let him glory in it for a while…

    But at the same time lets not escalate this into what happened on LS which used to be a lot of fun and then turned into a place to avoid because someone felt insulted about something and changed the whole dynamic…

    Now boys you need to kiss and makeup before this goes any further otherwise we will all be involved in an untimely and undignified exit I am sure….

  • Is not the most important the way you SEE, rather then LOOK?


  • It appears I left out some words up there. Still processing Panos’ remarks. My brain is all over the place at the moment. Prepping for a long needed trip to Ireland on Saturday. Hope to make lots of pictures of KIDS! Panos, you’ll be the first person I invite to look at the pictures.

    One day a kid somewhere will surprise you, Panos, with their beauty and brilliance. It might even be one of your own, if your lucky. They can throw the world right back at you if you’re willing and they’ll teach you a thing or two about this crazy existence.

    Be open to the possibility man.

    I hope you fell better about the world soon.

    Still loving your work. Gotta say.

  • DAH

    At the bottom of every page when you write a comment you can change any of your details any time you wish to post a comment.

    There is nothing to prevent me from calling myself david alan harvey for intance, we have just been very lucky that this blog has always been the precinct of honest and genuine people and no-one has been afraid to use their own ID.

    Anyway I hope the life span of the blog is not shortened by alien creatures stealing other peoples identities…


  • You’re loving this, aren’t you David? Fantastic.

    You know, it has taken me a while to get used to Panos’ writing style. You can spot his posts immediately. They leap off the screen. As do Bob’s. I find myself going there first, much of the time. I must say it’s always food for thought. Panos, you really live by the seat of your pants and I love that. I even enjoyed that “rant”, believe it or not. You’re an unknown quantity which is most intriguing. Would love to kill some beers with you sometime. I wonder if that could ever happen. If you find yourself in London sometime, buzz me.

  • All of a sudden, identity became relative.

  • Check this out, all you Digital Railroad people (always thought that was a strange name)

  • i don’t know lisa..

    the emperors new clothes.. all that business..
    photographers are not adverse to wearing them.. nor musicians.

    sometimes you crack open a wall-nut and inside there is just a small, black lump rather than a lush and crunchy reward.

    i don’t really need to glory in the birth of my son – and panos is hardly bringing a new or controversial discussion to the table..

    it’s the hidden insults and bitterness that are simply not worth replying to.. not here at least – although panos.. please feel free to take out your opinions in a personal email if you like.. and expect a pertinent reply.

  • and rafel..

    on the money for me..
    can we all stop looking at panos now and talk about PHOTOS

    jeeese.. some bitchn on here..

  • HI ALL – sorry i have been MIA for a few days. just back from frankfurt then in charlottesville for a LOOK3 meeting and busy with my real job….

    Went to an NG lecture the other night on Alexandra Avakian. i am embarrassed to say since she has shot for NG for years – but i was not real familiar with her work. she was wonderful and her work is beautiful.

    ERICA & ERIC – can you resend your links – would like to see them.

    DAH – i love the comment about us all showing up in oaxaca – you are probably right.

  • GINA,

    You can check it with this link:

    It is the topic “Lords of the ring”…I still have not corrected the typos that erica/ Sydney were very keen to point out to me… work for next wekk-end…



  • I wrote a long note about the “child rant”…and somehow it has totally disappeared…rescue it anyone?….i’ll try to re-write it at lunch….


  • bob – the thought is appreciated – mediating and all, if thats the intent – can we just leave it off the forum though?

    it’s embarrassing.. really..
    a three way email if you like, maybe better.


  • in other news – it looks as if photoshelter might well be the way to go.. rather than DRR..

    some good new applications and editable to blend with a website..

  • /\ as paul mentioned earlier..

  • Hello David & All,

    I hope you are all well!

    In answer to your original question, David. I’ve never photographed anything or anyone I haven’t truly loved. Of course, I love everything and everyone- what’s not to love? Even the most annoying, scary or boring subject has it’s interesting points, if you just have the fortitude to look deeper…

    Of course, I wouldn’t mind getting PAID to photograph these things! But I have faith that will come when it’s due. You said in workshop that you, David, don’t get to shoot what you like because you work for Magnum and National Geographic, but that you got into Magnum and Nat Geo because you always shot what you liked. That one idea struck a cord- it suddenly gave me permission to pursue my personal vision and the patience to know that I need not develop a career over night. Rather, I’d like to develop something more durable and unique- a career to span a lifetime! I plan to keep you posted as it develops- more as I settle in…

    With Love from Prague,


  • ALL

    thanks for the support yesterday..


    most certainly will finish this piece, no doubt about it, and will keep the future in the future for the present :)


    ended up watching Philadelphia kick butt last night instead of In the Real World..but your endorsement of it has me looking forward

    It is good to hear that you feel the same…my sense is that everyone here is struggling along to do their best, and in that sense we are all in the same place, side by side, no one ahead of the next..


    I hope you got some sleep..I am really looking forward to seeing your finished piece..


    Am very happy DAH was able to look at and extol not only the new body of work but you as a photographer as well. Whenever I m feeling overwhelmed, you are one of the first I think of, keeping it real and in balance, and working steadily have so many powerful single images in this cohesive piece..and even though they are for the most part in a similar vein, each has it’s own message..80 makes me smile, it’s so beautiful and sweet, 62 is like a moment of prayer, private and sincere, 49 still says it all for me, and I think 43 is showing me a window to another dimension of how you work / think, it is expansive and leaves room for me to enter the photo..38 is classic, as is 37, 18 great for the storytelling, 14 shows me how you were able to gain the trust of these men/ boys…I could go on, but I think you don’t need me too…now MM???


    no link yet..12 hours scanning yesterday though, so I am making headway..

  • Yesterday, Panos walks all over Magnum and Alec Soth (who does have a child!), then evryone tells him they’re there with him, he is such a special man, brings so much to the “family”, “you are not alone Panos”, and today, as late-night ranting as the other, and evryone is like shuddering and all “Oh Panos, how could you…. you ruined the blog”….


    Here’s an idea: we all sign our posts David Alan Harvey.

  • …..

  • ERICA,
    Seriously, 12 hours? you’re scanning your life away and not very strange you feel the way you do.. I’m glad I shoot digital, allthough I love film. Now, that lf or mf film look may be important for you and digital options maybe are too expensive?

    This makes me think of the following..
    What’s upp with that virtually all fine galleries and the art world want to see large format work? Is the technical quality and large print size more important then the content? I think this is sad..

  • erica
    ironically that you brought it up today. i was listening to jack kornfield’s talk this morning, and digesting it , i’ll throw a few thoughts to you.
    it’s not a news that the amount of people reading newspapers and magazines where one may see photographs or visiting exhibitions or buying art books is so minimal. as my better half pointed out photography surely is not saving the world from all the misery we’re indulging ourselves into.
    and yes, there might be more direct ways to help humanity to wipe to tears of sorrow through social work or volunteering.
    im supporting the self-indulgence in art, because art is essentially honouring of the loss that we have to acknowledge in ourselves, which is the connection to our sensitivity. we often forget how to feel. in our world it’s so easy to forget. the russian writer alexander soljenitsin pointed out that “the line between good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being”. to find the compassion to others and to keep the awareness of what surrounds us we need to connect to ourselves. by continuing to create art we also can at least remind others about their own sensitivity. to sustain at least a bit of the balance that persistently slides over to the lack of it. because it is so inconvenient to be sensitive. we wouldn’t agree with so many things in the world, with wars and poverty as an example if all of us were aware. bob and i had a conversation about greatness in art the other day. and i realized that i care so little at this point of how unique my pictures are, whether i have a ‘style’ or will be known, lots of other concerns that artists often struggle with. i just feel like to creating things that i enjoy with a small hope that it might bring enjoyment to others and may be will inspire them to do the same.

  • DAH:

    What you said about Erics work is right on…making your work, your dream, and most importantly your vision …where ever/when ever…esp. your own backyard! ….and making that happen regardless of distractions, responsibilites! These are BOTH such strong points and should act as fuel for any inspired individual- I like it.

    Erics work, esp. on his website intro reminds me in many ways of your own. Colors, movement, complexity. It’s very nice!

    Enjoy Mexico, the hard work, and the “product” of it! I would very much like to “save some coin” to make that journey under your direction some day soon! Perhaps by next year..! gotta run…..

    Salude -Jeremy

  • Thanks Guido

    Actually, I gave it away against copies of the magazine. It’s not like “my” photography is a threat to the commerce of photo publication.

    More talented people will differ, understandably.

  • marina said
    ‘i just feel like to creating things that i enjoy with a small hope that it might bring enjoyment to others and may be will inspire them to do the same.’

    could that humble intention be a signal of ‘greatness’ in itself?


    If you find any time between now and your departure on Saturday, Audrey and I would appreciate your checking out possible additions to our assignments:


    PASSWORD patricia

    Sending thoughts of peace in the midst of chaos,

  • DAVID BOWEN :))))

    i hear you :)))…i’ll write you all later, off the blog…

    and as for Marina’s post/ideas and your query “could that humble intention be a signal of ‘greatness’ in itself?”

    I can tell you it ABSOLUTELY is :)))))…she’s a great photographer and MORE IMPORTANTLY i great person…from whom i learn learn all the time :))))..

    believe me :))


  • herve – missed that.. sorry.

    with guido – i think on balance you did good.. in this case.. it’s good to feed some..

    i ‘do not’ give away work, although i last did so last year.. to an organization loosing money hand over fist..

  • Bob, include me in that email please.

  • Paul :)))…i will…it’s a shame, or maybe that was karma, that my long post disappeared….i mentioned your sons and the work with your golden-haired lad (i’ve always always loved it)…

    but, ok, at the end, i posted PHotos…work of Jonas Bendiksen’s new book (which i gave to Erica) The Places We Live…

    important important book and a brilliant website…and Jonas is a proud and remarkable father too :)))

    i basically said, we are ALL SELF-OBSESSED ATTENTION-GRABBING people, all of us, the epf, the members, each of us and we must acknowledge that, so it doesnt do any good to spit at one another…and that i read Panos attack as an attack against himself, because he is a loving Uncle (to his niece) and to others…

    fatherhood has made me stronger, better, wiser, richer than all the booze, pot, photography in the world…

    anyway, it doesnt matter…

    I am very happy for Papa Bowen…

    more later

  • Hi Patricia,
    I love your new images, especially 1, 3, 4, 6, 11, 12, 13, and 17… thank you for my link…
    Best regards,

  • /\ bob..

    and mamma b is laughing at the last couple of pages posts.. and saying compassionate things for panos..

    you know.. the only projecting i like is slides.. the only subliminal behavior worth taking on board is positive..

    b says it must be painful carrying that anger around inside..
    baby Tor is born OUT OF LOVE..

    and on and on..


    Thanks so much for checking out my images and sharing your opinions. I value your “eye” greatly!

    I know David’s very busy but thought it was worth a try ;~)


  • as an aside, norway has a population problem – in that 4 million people, (half the pop of london), is not enough to fill jobs..
    and so – positive immigration and nurturing family is the policy to change that.

    we’re down with the plan.. no car.. recycling.. carbon footprint the size of a tea-bag.. everyone does their best..

    beate and i talked long ago about adopting our 2nd child..
    for selfish reasons of course.. that way we can have one with a tube and one without a tube.
    ho, ho and of course, ho.

  • mike

    as per magnum blog quote..apologies for my part in any histrionics or puerility..
    i could not agree with you more.


  • DADDY B.

    The native populations of Europe are in decline. Germany is greening whole sections of cities, ie, returning them to natural habitat, believer it or not. We either adapt our economies here to downsize or we allow for continued massive immigration.

    We too leave but a tiny carbon footprint. No car. I use when I need one. There’s usually one on the next street over. And we use very little energy, relatively speaking.

    Congratulations to you and yours, Daddy B.

  • Bob, thanks for the link, I love the work of Jonas Bendiksen, the site is wonderfull !!


    Just wanted to tell you that I’m really impressed with the last editing of 10 pictures of your parent’s proyect (I’ve seen it in the 37th Frame). Really touching pictures! It is very difficult to get to a tight edit and I think you did it very well. And I’m telling this because for me editing is so difficult and I think I always edit in the worng wey, hehe. You did it just wonderful! Congratulations!!



  • “wrong way” I mean, sorry…


    Please PLEASE don’t feel you have to explain or justify yourselves & your choices to us. Last night’s outburst was just that, an outburst. If you look at it again I think you’ll see that the content makes little sense. Anyway it was NOT about content but all about our brother’s hurt cry for help. Uncalled for? Of course. Inappropriate? Certainly. Hurtful to people here? Yes.

    But what can we do about it? We can’t heal our brother’s wounds, nor do we really understand them. Responding publicly in anger to his outbursts simply perpetuates the cycle of violence.

    To be honest I’m more worried about Panos right now than about anyone else. I fear his rage could be turned against himself and that could prove deadly. Let us hold him in the Light. He needs it now more than ever.


  • Ana,
    It is not my editing but that of David !

  • Ohhhh so congratulations for the editing, David hahahaha. It really works!! Great 10 pictures!! (But the pictures are yours, Audrey. Great work ;-)

  • Reading Patricia I see that I, again, missed something around here. Is Panos ok?

    PANOS, I’m with you, whaterver it is ;-) Send you strenght and peace.



  • All

    That was definitely Panos… and was not an outburst… we’ve had that conversation before. I’m a dad and don’t find his comments offensive in the least way.
    I took the comment of having kids to improve your photography as a joke… hopefully it was meant as such, otherwise that’s the outrageous comment. Like Panos said, there are far too many people on this world that don’t have a mother or father to have kids to improve your photography.

    -={ (. )_( .) }=-

  • Not a joke, necessarily, but certainly not a serious comment. Having kids for me changed my photography because it changed me and how I come at the world and that worked its way into my image making, I suppose. Simple as that.

    Nor am I cross at Panos. Just hoping he finds a way to chill out some.


    No, please, no apology… I was just speaking in generalities. It is what it is, as they say… and I certainly would not want one thing to change here, even if I did have a say in it. It is a phenomenon and I’m happy to be a marginal part of it. I am nothing but thankful to be here.

    I was just thinking that it might be fun to have a place, in addition to this one, where you can bring your “game” intellect, keep on point, write well, and do some serious, adult-level thinking about photography with like-minded peers. That’s it…

    Too much to expect? Probably.

  • Who amongst us is shooting with video? Shall we post some links? I’m beginning to get rather excited by video and like to play with one of those tiny Flip things with notions of moving to the Nikon D90 at some point soon.

    Most video I see from photojournalists tends to be assignment related. Have any of you shot personal work in video that you might like to share. Do any of you shot video spontaneously much like you shoot stills? Not worrying about sound but rather concentrating on the visuals?

    I don’t really have anything to show of any note just yet, rather I’m just figuring out how to move the thing with the action and the like. At some point I’d like to add a Photohumourist-in-motion section to my site. When I have something vaguely interesting I’ll post a link.

    So, any motion photography amongst us?

  • Are you guys working for HALLMARKS? It’s like reading the back of a greeting card, here sometimes, except it seems like the writer just is sharing a profound truth, and the reader is discovering life’s truest meanings. Can I join?:

    The laughter of a child is God’s voice on Earth.

    How does it sound, OK? I am new at it, I’ll take all the help…

  • God has nothing to do with it. With anything. How does that sound?

  • mike said, “Who amongst us is shooting with video? Shall we post some links? I’m beginning to get rather excited by video and like to play with one of those tiny Flip things with notions of moving to the Nikon D90 at some point soon.”

    I’m definitely interested in doing video with the d90… especially with a zeiss 50mm lens !!

    As soon as I sell a d200 I’ll pick one up and post… maybe in two weeks.

  • dearest erica–

    you have only to open up your mouth and speak
    to be doing the world a great service.
    your queries awaken – not only yourself –
    but those who hear them.

    gestate unhurriedly.

    you are radiant.


  • Wow I just noticed that I can only get around $700 for a d200…. guess I won’t be checking out the d90 anytime soon… pity how terrible the resale value on these tools are.

    -={ (. )_( .) }=-


    Please PLEASE don’t feel you have to explain or justify yourselves & your choices to us. Last night’s outburst was just that, an outburst. If you look at it again I think you’ll see that the content makes little sense.”


    patricia, the content actually makes loads of sense to me.
    what i heard panos say is that there are many multitudes
    of children already on earth who have no parents whatsoever.
    and perhaps it is selfish to want our “own” in the face of this fact.
    we should look at that, shouldn’t we?
    not here, on a photo blog, but it is a valid point as i see it.


  • MIKE :)))

    I hope that’s what Magnum blog does….and it still happens here too :)))

    PANOS, RAFAL, AND ALL :)) (david alan harvey clone too ;)) )..

    ok, so i left a long and i thought eloquent comment this morning after reading Panos “rant” this morning, and i definitely dont have the eloquence i did this morning (im tired and running home), nor after reading my wife’s wise thoughts to Erica, have the inclincation to write more, so i’ll just share something simple and small with you all. My reaction to Panos’ rant. And yes, i am a happy and proud Papa too…

    Let me say first of all that it is indeed misfortunate that the language in Panos’ posts (and i’m totally used to it by now) created such enmity and hostility. I do not understand Rafal’s reaction at all. I think ALL OF US are self-obsessed aggrandizing attention seekers: all of us: Me, panos, david (all of them ;)) ), rafal, patricia, andrew, mike, erica, kyung-hee, all the epf winners AND SUBMISSION FOLK, everyone that has shown work here (eric: I LOVE YOUR BOXING ESSAY MAN!!!!, NOW, can i ask, politely, for more “atmosphere”/environmental pics, not just pics of boxers…but this essay is absolutely great), all of us…we are all here because we both need attention, enjoy attention and want to connect…People like me wife (much more intelligent, wise and free than I am), don’t need the attention, the wish, so she just reads..and she doesnt care what david or anyone things of the work, just does…and she’s a GREAT MOTHER!…

    I read Panos’ rant with both laughter and sadness. I read it really (all that vitriolic language) as a cri de’ceour, a cry from him. He is a great Uncle (anyone seen his pics about his niece or know how much his Dark Kids mean to him) and i know him IN REALITY…he’s got a big fucking heart. But he also has a BIG FUCKING FOUL MOUTH. He tends to go off without thinking at all, or what his words do to people. Shit, the 1st 2 comments he every directed at me were: 1) “you epf winners are just a punch of sorry-ass, magnum-kissing wannabees..” and 2) “teachers should be killed” ;)))0…i read both of those as pretty funny, but i also thought to myself: either this guy is like the youngest kid on the planet or he’s really has been hurt in his life…same when i read this rant…

    I often get frustrated that Panos can approach something with venom or attacking, but i also know he is honest and i know who he is, unafraid and how to “deal with him. I know i can trust him to tell meet exactly what he things/feels. This is not true with most of the world. panos, of course, makes a big point and important point about neglectful parents, about people who cave to their natures over reflection about responsibility. i also understand and feel too the often times saccarin and depressing attitude that Parents (adults with kids) laud over those who are single or childless. It is not superior to be a parent. It is not more noble than any other way to live. I think this is part of what he was trying to say.

    The truth is that i know noble parents (Marina, my brothers, my own parents, most of the parents i know) and i know parents who are horrendous, thoughtless, selfish bastards. I also know people without kids who are remarakable human beings (my aunt, for example) and people without kids who dont understand shit about life. I can tell you that Dima has been a blessing in my life. He has taught me more about this life (and about my own parents) than anyone or anything in my life. I am the photographer, the writer, the person i am because of him and of because of becoming a husband and a father. He inflects every waking moment of my life and without him i would be bereft. Also, i would not have the rich understanding of life and death i have without him….BUT….

    this is my life, only my life…

    I think that what David Bown is now experiencing is extraordinary and beautiful and I cannot express how happy i am for him. this is a wonderment and a joy and a suffering and it will make him the person he was meant to be. My father once said to me, after an agument, when i was 21, “bob, you will never understand shit aobut life until either i or you mother dies…you wont understand.” WE ARE ALL CHILDREN and know what that means…and maybe, now that I am a father, i understand clearly what he meant…

    but I think that Panos’ remark is just part of the “beauty” of this blog. I dont like anger and i dont respect hatred nor hatred language. I would say to Panos:

    PANOS, your venom sometimes is just as Fucked as the attitude that people have without considering parenthood. Your words hurt people and sting them and you also have a responsibility to own them and to understand that you also do harm to people when you speak to them like that…whether you mean it or not, you harm people, and you must own that…

    but also, people, let’s not reduce this blog to white paper…part of it’s uniquness (for good and bad) is that it is real…beautiful and ugly, intelligent and stupid…and let it all come out…

    no way this blog can be Magnum blog. I love love and miss miss (as i told Mike and talk about with Marina all the time) talking abouT PHTOOGRAPHY…more pictures, more fucking ideas here!!! i want that…alot…but i also love that this blog is like life…it’s fucked and it is what we are…

    i think we must laugh, to a degree, at what Panos wrote, because he was questioning is own father-like friend (DAVID Harvey) and he didnt back down…is his logic stupid? to some degress, yes. does he totally go off without thought, yes. did he mean to judge or hate Paul or David B or the rest of us who have and live for our children…no fucking way…

    but, i think when this shit comes out, if often tells us more about ourselves, shows us who we are…

    I support panos and while i think his argument is totally totally not thoughtout well (overpopulation is an important issue, but Panos, bro, you’re carrying a god-damn $5,000 camera, where’s the morality in that amigo ;))) ), but i love that Panos is honest, even when wacked, he is honest and you better believe he cares…maybe he fucks up in how he expresses, but he cares…and that’s why i dig him…

    here on the blog, where he belongs, and in real life, where i know him…

    ok, that’s what i meant…

    enough of my sorry-ass writing ;)))

    as David B said;



  • and I would remind:

    go look at Jonas’ work:

    and he is also a great and loving father :))))

    and i’ve always loved falling Paul’s trials and joy as a dad :)))…and cant wait to see what David B shows us :)))

  • ALL–

    panos just emailed me and asked me to post this for him:

    Panayiotis Skoulida wrote:

    Help me out.. Post the letter below..

    nobody knows that right now I’m taking care( or trying to) my girlfriends freidas 4 kids..
    4 abandoned kids from their
    Up in the mountain.. I didn’t pay my car payment .. I send them all my last savings yesterday..$600 to pay their rent.
    You have seen my kids..
    They are my “DARK KIDS”..
    I’m hurt hurt hurt..
    Safe ( guilty) moms and dads in the blog they don’t see my pain..
    You do..
    I’m hurt. I can’t be defending myself
    in any blog anymore..
    All I said is ADOPT .. Love them..
    Look at angelina jolie .. I love her..
    That’s all..


  • Thanks Bob.

    That’s a great feature from Magnum. Rather alarming.

  • … which Jonas is most certainly not …

  • … evolution is due …


    I was asking about video. Not Mike. But who cares. I’d just love to see some stuff. Pity about the D90. I too will have to wait for one. Hopefully in the new year.

  • BOBB–

    panos gave me this to post here:

    Bob.. You adopted..Yes.. I respect you for that..
    That’s all I said and I believe it..
    Before you do your own kid see if you can adopt..
    You did it.. You are a real man..
    I’m trying to do the same..
    Fuck all men .. They have no heart..
    They are selfish..
    Think how they get their pets..
    People instead of saving a pet from the street..they go to pet shops and buy “brand” pets.
    Bob you really hurt me today when you
    Said that I attacked myself..
    But I know you were trying to calm them down.. Therefore thank you…


    i’m out.

  • I just caught up on the reading.
    Wow, the last two pages have been tumultuous.
    Panos, come back.


    A letter for Katia…( last favor .. Post this for u and I’m done explaining..

    THANK YOU..For being my voice..
    I owe you. I feel for your STREET KIDS.. Honestly.. With half of my DARK KIDS I live in the same cabin
    in the mountais.. Eat from the same plate..
    I DIDNT WANT TO REVEAL ALL THAT.. I don’t wanna look like a fake hero.. But they didn’t leave me any choice on the blog..
    I’m driving a TOWTRUCK ..
    Right this minute .. To survive..
    My girlfriend gets no child support..
    The ducking biological father is hiding
    somewhere in Florida with a new wife..
    Soon she gonna get pregnant too..



    yes, panos, i have 186 street sons and daughters and 2 biological sons.
    i can’t tell the difference.

    love you..


  • AKAKY: Did you understand any of that?

    AKAKY IRL: Any of what?

    AKAKY: The fireworks on the DAH blog.

    AKAKY IRL: I wasn’t paying attention.

    AKAKY: How can you not pay attention to stuff like that?

    AKAKY IRL: You can not pay attention to almost anything if you put your mind to it, guy.

    AKAKY: Phooey. And did you know that you were self-aggrandizing? I saw it on the DAH blog.

    AKAKY IRL: I was aggrandizing on a blog? What the hell is that thing, a porno site? Someone pasted my head on someone else’s body, that’s what that is. Self-aggrandizing, my foot. I never aggrandized myself in my life. I don’t think I can afford the Jack Russell terriers you need for that sort of thing.

    AKAKY: If you say so.


    Thanks for your kind words… I would say that David has been an inpiration for me but please do not compare!!!! I hope I can have my own style and even if I can make a few good pictures, there is a long way to go before approaching a master like David!!!! So thanks for the comment even if too generous :):)


    Thanks also for your comments… Getting the two of you to look at my work means a lot… Erica, you know I am a huge fan of yours so like Gina, I cannot wait to reach the day you share the link with us so that we can see what you have been up to. Patiently and eagerly waiting!!!!


    Come back to us in peace man! I can see how you may feel… For others around, just wanted to share an insight that says a lot about the real Panos…the other day, when I shared the link to my new work on the boxers, Panos fired questions at me on the blog, 3,4 missiles…. It almost could have come across initially as an attack of some kind…Panos wrote me a private email immediately to let me know that he loved the work, was not attacking, wanted to get the discussion going on the blog on my work so that it would give it visibility, give me a chance to provide more perspective etc…. Panos likes provoking us so that we react but the man has a big heart!!!! Interestingly, David says that Panos and Patricia are brother and sister…Amusing to know that Patricia while I was away proactively sent my link to David so that he wuld not miss it…. Again, this says a lot about her and says also why these two are bother and sister… Panos, all I can say is that we want you back with us very fast!!!! And take care of these beautiful dark kids!



  • ALL

    Panos is working all day on the tow truck & asked me to post the email he sent me after he’d read my comment titled “ALL DADS & MOMS.” Here it is:

    Subject: Thank you pat..
    Date: October 23, 2008 2:09:15 PM GMT-04:00

    nobody knows that right now I’m taking care( or trying to) my girlfriends freidas 4 kids..
    4 abandoned kids from their
    Up in the mountain.. I didn’t pay my car payment .. I send them all my last savings yesterday..$600 to pay their rent.
    You have seen my kids..
    They are my “DARK KIDS”..
    I’m hurt hurt hurt..
    Safe ( guilty) moms and dads in the blog they don’t see my pain..
    You do..
    I’m hurt. I can’t be defending myself
    in any blog anymore..
    All I said is ADOPT .. Love them..
    Look at angelina jolie .. I love her..
    That’s all..


  • SORRY for the repetition. I just got home & posted Panos’ email before reading the recent posts…


  • ok..
    I’m right here..( quick truck stop somewhere
    in Downey.. LA)…
    I’m totally right here..
    You nailed it..
    I’m not hiding or apologizing about anything..
    I totally believe what I said..
    right above…
    ( only paulyman needs an apology from me
    because he was away for a while…)
    I’m not here to bring DEMOCRACY.
    I’m not a politician so I don’t need to be nice to ALL..
    I’m not Jesus.. I’m more like John the baptist..
    I’m here to destroy the idols and destroy
    The Fake parts of my own Rotten Soul..
    I exorcise my own demon.. I barely refer to others
    because this does not cure all..
    I’m not here to make friends or enemies..
    I’m not here to destroy YOUR MASK…
    but mine..
    So ( only for some -not ALL )..
    please ( to my haters)..
    Do not flatter yourselves..
    I’m not here thinking of you ..
    Or scheming against you..
    I can barely see you..
    Coz I’m blinded by my own pain and
    I will post soon more work from my
    own “DARK KIDS”…
    ( I just feel bad that I revealed their
    identities and what they mean fir me..)
    I’m not a saint ..
    I’m just an ASSHOLE.. They don’t
    Deserve me.. They don’t need me
    I need them..
    I’m not a good person..
    Again , I’m not here to be loved by everyone..
    I’m not that fake..
    I’m just a human being… Full of shit…
    Thank u fir listening..


    I just received word of tent cities springing up around the U.S. in the wake of the home foreclosure crisis. Has anyone seen photos of this phenomenon? If any of our photojournalists want a timely subject for an essay, here it is!

    What follows is an article that was carried by the Inter Press Service:


    By Heike Barkawitz

    Oct. 17- With a massive spike in the number of foreclosures and evictions over the past two years, communities throughout the U.S. have witnessed the sprouting of tent cities — many of them home to once middle-class citizens fallen victim to the economic downturn.

    Encampments have formed in or near large urban areas including Reno, Los Angeles, Chattanooga, Columbus, St. Petersburg, Seattle and Portland.

    “[Starting] about four years ago, there has been an outbreak of tent cities popping up across the country. Today, we observe a slow but steady increase in homeless people,” Michael Stoops, acting executive director of the National Coalition for the Homeless (NCFTH), told IPS.

    According to a report by NCFTH, almost 61 percent of local and state homeless coalitions say that they have seen a growth in homelessness since the foreclosure crisis — now at 10,000 homes per week — began in 2007.

    The phenomenon is similar to the social upheavals of the Great Depression of the 1930s — an era frequently referenced these days — when “Hooverville” ad-hoc shanty towns, some as big as 15,000 people, were erected around the country, named after the president at the time, Herbert Hoover.

    Scott, a resident of the tent city in Los Angeles, told a television reporter, “I had one of those escalating, finance-charge, balloon-things that steps up every year and the payment just got too much so that I couldn’t afford it anymore. I tried to work with the bank and they worked with me, gave me some extra time, but it’s just getting too big. So they foreclosed.”

    Many residents of tent cities share Scott’s fate. One woman told BBC that she used to live in a three-bedroom, two-bathroom house. When her husband fell ill, it became impossible to make ends meet.

    “We have a lot of grandkids, too. They used to always come over and stay. They don’t come here anymore, I don’t want them to come here. We go there and see them at their house,” she said. She and her husband now live in a mobile home at a camp.

    Most tent cities have a community-spirit and are self-regulated, said Stoops, who has visited many of the encampments. “In most tent cities, there are certain rules — like for instance no drugs, no alcohol and no violence,” he told IPS.

    He and his organization supported the formation of tent cities. “[They] are of course not the solution, but necessary until adequate shelters and housing are found,” he added.

    “The tent city in St. Petersburg, Florida, is even supported by the government and some local, non-profit organizations provide support for tent cities across the country,” Stoops said.

    Jeremy Rosen, executive director of the National Policy and Advocacy Council on Homelessness (NPACH), expected a mild growth in the number of tent cities in the future due to the weak economy. “On the other hand, I suspect we’ll see a definite rise in homelessness,” he told IPS.

    According to a document published by NPACH, the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development’s (HUD) definition of homelessness “does not include children and families who have lost their homes but are temporarily staying in motels or with other people because other shelter is not available or appropriate.”

    These families have often lost their homes due to an event like eviction, foreclosure or a family crisis, but cannot find available and appropriate shelter.

    “They become the ‘hidden homeless’, moving around from place to place — sleeping in cars, on couches, sometimes in shelters, sometimes with friends and sometimes with family. Unfortunately, our country chooses to deny this reality and doesn’t define many of these people as homeless,” Rosen told IPS.

    There are an estimated 600,000 children and youths who are considered homeless by other agencies, but not by HUD. “More than 60 percent of the homeless students identified by public schools are ineligible for HUD Homeless Assistance,” the NPACH’s report states.

    “During the last seven years, we have seen homelessness increase. This is due to, for example, hurricanes or the unofficial economic recession with a foreclosure crisis,” Stoops told IPS. “A month ago, over 900,000 homes were foreclosed and some of the people concerned will wind up homeless.”

    While “there exists more [government] sympathy for banks and people on Wall Street”, he wryly added that “the capitalist society will allow even those people to wind up homeless.”

    In Chicago, Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart has taken unusual action and announced last week that he was suspending all foreclosure evictions.

    “The move comes as a result of the growing number of evictions that involve renters, most of whom are dutifully paying their rent every month, only to later learn their landlord has fallen behind on mortgage payments and the building has gone into foreclosure,” Spokesman Steve Patterson told IPS.

    “These mortgage companies only see pieces of paper, not people, and don’t care who’s in the building. They simply want their money and don’t care who gets hurt along the way,” Dart said in an interview.

    Dart wants mortgage companies to be forced to provide sufficient information to the Sheriff’s Office in order to conduct an eviction.

    According to a press release by the Cook County Sheriff’s Office, foreclosure filings have steadily climbed in Cook County since 1999. In just two years, the number of foreclosure evictions has almost tripled.

    The data firm RealtyTrac recently published a report stating that foreclosures were at an unparalleled high nationally, filings were up nearly 100 percent from a year ago and officials estimate that approximately half a million people could lose their homes as adjustable mortgage rates rise over the next two years. Many of those affected might eventually end up homeless, seeking help in a tent city or elsewhere.

    As there are not nearly enough shelter beds for all the homeless people in the U.S., Stoops appealed for government compassion, saying that “every city should have one park or another space where homeless people are allowed to erect their tents.”

    “It is hard for homeless people to set up a homeless campsite because cops come and make them move on. The most recent count from the government, which is from 2005, says that 44 percent of the nation’s homeless are unsheltered,” he said.

    Source: Inter Press Service
    DEETROIT, MI 48202– E MAIL:

  • ALL

    There is a very important story right here in the U.S. With the home mortgage and foreclosures has come tent cities across this country. Seems to me this is a photo essay waiting to happen. Do you know of any photojournalists who are exploring it in depth?

    David, sure seems like a possible addition to your families project.

    Here are two links:


  • ALL

    There is a very important story right here in the U.S. With the home mortgage and foreclosures has come tent cities across this country. Seems to me this is a photo essay waiting to happen. Do you know of any photojournalists who are exploring it in depth?

    David, sure seems like a possible addition to your families project.

    Here are two links:


  • I think those kids are lucky to have you there. Period.

  • Sorry, that was at Panos. I’ve just been emailing with him.

  • Paulyman

  • SORRY for the repeated postings. Typepad was not doing its job for me ;!)


  • Hey Everyone:

    I have gotten a bunch of people from here and in internet land that emailed me and said they wanted to send in a photo for the daily critique. But I had only gotten the three that I have posted.

    Anyone want to be the next victim? Send them along.

  • Bob,

    sorry but Im not with you at all. Theres a difference betwen submiting work for the EPF or sometimes asking people to look at your work and going off on rants on an alost daily basis, and sorry to say, crossing the line. Yesterday I posted an apology seeing how I overlooked the fact that someone might have been impersonating Panos. Today, as I see that it was Panos, that apology is no longer valid. Im glad to see Panos has so many allies here, but Im not going to be pressured to overlook what he said, excuse it, forgive it or accept it. I remember now my original feelings for Panos. Looks like my instincts were spot on.

    You know, we all have shit that happened to us in life that we can be pissed off about. Some people lost a parent when they were young to a horrible disease. WTF makes him so special we overlook his venom just cause he’s a “tortured soul”?

  • ERIC, ERIC, ERIC…. WOW! i had not seen your work before. WOW! your use of color, framing, intimacy is fantastic. this subject has been done many times, but you bring something fresh and unique to it. great work my friend.

  • ALL

    I’ve been fortunate to have met so many amazing people on this blog. Some I’ve now met in person and others through emails. One of my best email buddies is Reimar Ott who lives in Westphalia, Germany. Reimar reads the blog but doesn’t have the time to post. He just sent me a link to a multi-media piece about which he says, “There is this story about Kingsley and I think it is the most touching piece of journalism I have seen for a long time. Impressed me deeply.” The link to it is this:

    I’ve just watched it and I agree. If you’re thinking about doing video or MM work, please check this out. It is excellent!

    In gratitude for friends

  • Rafal what is it exactly that Panos said that offended you exactly?

  • ALL….

    i think i explained before that i have an ad shoot all day tomorrow…rushing around now getting set for it…and then i must leave for Mexico very early saturday morn…so, i doubt i will be back here for new post or comments until sunday….your usual patience most appreciated….

    cheers, david

  • Damn.. 9:40pm in LA..
    Please don’t waste your time with the “DEAD”…
    & “DEAF”…

    Your purpose here is to do your “fashion/ documentary”
    your work.. Whatever you call it..

    YOUR ART..
    Show us more work…
    Don’t mess with the “dead and the diceased”

    .. Please show us more work…?
    That’s why you are here..
    A great magazine is on the making..
    You are very useful..
    Soon all will see …!!!

  • also… KARIM..
    You were telling me today about VIDEO..
    Why don’t you incorporate it to your
    Fashion Slideshows…
    That would be cool…!

  • DAH,
    Have fun in Mexico ..
    & for ….The last 3 days..
    Im Planning a trip with a car..
    A Dodge..
    A ” Challenger”….
    Stay tuned!

  • … Alicia,
    I know I told you VENICE…
    but I found my ass in the desert…

  • ALL, I understand I talk in a “fun”/”offensive”
    But it’s fun, not boring , not always educating,
    but definitely entairtaining….
    So I feel like congratulating all of you that
    Readind my comments like cops love
    Doughnuts.. Like “hellsangels” love their bikes…
    and again.. This 2% that is not “made”for that
    is absolutely normal…
    It’s almost a “cliché” but this forum is also
    a Comedy field… They also call it fun..
    Sense of humor…
    My stuff is very brutal for some..
    But read Akaky, DAH or Herve…

    Fun , smart, educated people…
    Not like the Dead.. The Boring.. …the Diseaced..

    Love you Fred..
    Fuck you ARTIE…

  • I’m in Mexico City right now…haven’t read this site in a while…DHA in Oaxaca? can anybody please let me know… love to have a beer you David and any of the people in this forum… Thanks , Peace

  • GREAT , PAT…
    i didnt really ” overlooked”… your posting..
    thank you… great info… great job…( scares the shit out of the “safe & the dead”…..of course…

    “It is hard for homeless people to set up a homeless campsite because cops come and make them move on. The most recent count from the government, which is from 2005, says that 44 percent of the nation’s homeless are unsheltered,” he said.

    Source: Inter Press Service
    DEETROIT, MI 48202– E MAIL:

    Posted by: Patricia Lay-Dorsey | October 23, 2008 at 06:23 PM

    the last 3 days from the workshop…
    lets have beer… but please remember… ANTON likes DUVEL
    so lets find the right “spot”

    peace y’all…
    time to masturbate… and say “night night”…
    goodnight america…

  • Rafal, I must tell you that your reaction is a decent reaction. Of course, Panos meant to be indecent, so ying and yang I guess. But that reaction has the merit to be honest and coming from the heart.

    Bob, one day, tell us (succinctly!) why you write long, or rather, grand posts to say stuff that could be said, and well said, in 4 or 5 lines, top? Thanks.

  • Herve,

    thank you. Its funny, Panos makes outrageous, offensive, foul statements meant to offend and insult people and he gets a free pass. I dont get it. This whole reasoning that Panos is well meaning but tortured, give me a break. He isnt the only one who had had crap happen to him, but he IS the only one who on a REGULAR basis spews out these foul rants and attacks people. He’s done it from Day ONE here. Some may be willing to buy this illusion, Im not one of them.

  • emotional blackmail from the ignorant is to be despised.. twist and turn and lean on others to explain..
    who’s killing themselves if not for photography?

    what a crock of shit..

  • /\ bang on rafel.

    i think ever so often we get the full effect.. and then the twists and turns.. the bullshit and pretense..

    some of you have met him – i hope to never do so.

    and here we are again..
    talking about the small soul with the big mouth.. talking loud and saying nothing..

    waiting for.. the next MIND BOMB

  • aww..
    my leg hurts so i’m going to stab you in the face…

    XXX, please post for me..
    i only stabbed him in the face because my leg hurts..

    nonsense.. shallow.

  • and with that i’m back to editing my body of work..

    looking at photographers..

    reading about the places we live

    kissing my baby

    and connecting with good people.

  • David,

    I agree. I had initial insincts, but learned to tolerate him and forget those instincts. maybe hes different in person, I dont know, but on the net he comes across as the last person I would ever want to meet.

    I dont understand why its so difficult to observe a basic level of decorum and etiquette. I also dont understand why some are continously allowed to stomp all over basic human decency and why excuse after excuse is made for them.

    To those who dont understand why Im pissed off about this, Ill say it. Panos in the most foul and disrespectful way took a shot at things I hold most dear. I dont know if you are as offended as me David Bowen, but I tell you, right now Im pissed off more than I can remember being pissed off here.

    And Panos, you always claim you are some kind of myth destroyer. Sorry to burst your bubble, you are just a loudmouth with a problem. Your words do destroy myths, they dont carry the weight. A fly wont knock over a wall no matter how hard it tries. But keep taking yourself seriously, trying to knock over some imaginary walls.

  • Dear PANOS,

    There will be a time when you enter the adult life….
    I was once like you are now… and i know that it’s not easy…
    keep struggling…some day Oprah will notice you…
    That’s not your fault….it’s California that makes this to people…
    go to Vermont….or become a Jeovah witness….
    you’ll see the light….
    and sorry for my English…i had such a poor education.



  • I’m hitting the rails then the roads then the open seas. See you in November.
    text +44 1 (0) 785 266 0496
    Skype photohumourist

  • Finally, stay away, a long way away, from those witness people.

  • mike

    cool.. i think the magnum blog will be a savior of sorts, in that respect..
    kung fu grippe is great.. thanks for the link.


    regarding the latest bout of irrelevant banter – i’m sorry for it.

    i have been reveling in the miracle of life for 2 weeks.. baby was 2 weeks and 1 day old yesterday and both beate and myself are utterly delighted.. it’s a life which just 2 short years ago i could not have dream’t i would achieve..
    out of complete disaster and chaos something really special happened.

    i’m an open mind and an open heart – i’ve always been keen to discuss issues with balance and philosophical intent.. and that is not what happened here a couple of pages ago..
    the ‘opinion’, which has nothing to do with photography or intelligent thought, which has now distracted from the business of photography was in reaction to my posts of happiness.. and that’s the part i apologize for.. my part in it..

    panos – as much as you rally the troops and gather yourself to explain your situation in life, you embarked on a personal attack.. the fundamental belief you hold, (which you are now clinging to as explanation), is hardly a wild and outrageous opinion..
    i’m certain it is a conversation every concerned beer head, drug user and herb smoker has had at some point gathered around the ‘fire’..
    and so it’s a conversation which is neither new to me nor, i’m sure, new to most.

    so i strip that away.. and all that is left is personal vitriol and bile – the person you responded to is me .. who is enjoying fatherhood..
    strip away ‘the point’ you were expressing and all that is left is insult piled onto insult.. throwing odd subliminal shapes like a rabid dog protecting a position – and not an opinion..
    because the opinion is hardly new.. it’s a revolution in a tea cup.

    whatever anyone else on here says, my truth remains and i see you, brother, as i saw myself in a past life.. and i pity you your insults and stone throwing because – and it’s already been said – they are stones you are throwing at yourself..

    the very points and accusations you would fight against are the ones that give you away.. in your messages through others on here who you use to soften your return..

    and the point?
    your eccentricities could be explained by an overwhelming talent.. but they are not.

    were we all to expound our beliefs in your verbose tones.. what then? if i told of my darkest moments.. dwelt upon the toughest of times.. threw rocks at happy people because i had not been.. or lent on the ill charms of the tough life we are living.. truck driver.. waiter.. bin-man.
    who cares? really?

    if one thing is certain it’s that every waking person has the struggles of every other waking person.. sees the same world if their eyes are not fogged..
    you pronounce your Independence and solitude while leaning on the kindness of others..
    you bemoan the bitching, while spitting venom.

    you excuse yourself, tell us who you are and have the darkest methods of self promotion..

    to me you have become a rabid dog at the center of a room you insulted upon arrival and now guard with insults and allegiances built on platitudes..

    so – call me DEAD and shout it out..
    you are funny.
    you are hilarious.
    and awaiting your next MIND BOMB, sharpened with insult.. i can laugh my friend.. because i am not a guilty parent.. i am a happy one.. and if for one moment you took your eyes off of yourself and your position, status and ego, problems and bitterness you would see the truth – properly.
    that life is simple.. the universe is simple.. if you simplify your life.. and that crystal meth, heroin, coke, speed, acid, weed, opium, alcohol and any other drug that can be listed will do all it can to destroy that truth.

    yeah – i’m guilty you know.. selfish.. ugly.. a narcissist.. a truck driving photographer..

    and you?
    you’re not jesus.. as you said..

  • /\

    and – no more personal posts from me.. no talk of my family nor work.. just photos..

    i’m never again going to justify why my son is a beautiful and living creature to be filled with love to a fool would better have seen him as an, (quote) abortion (end quote).

  • paul..

    badass way to sign off.. enjoy.

  • Some thoughts about blogs, blogging and taking pictures.

    I know we are only small 1% of this forum. Most of “us” are people who never write, but who exist even as a ghosts.
    When I first time came here I wanted say to other, maybe famous, maybe one of my favorite, but just photographer, just other person that I like his work. Nothing more nothing less. Many times I said this words of appreciating to others photographers if I had contact with, it’s not mean that I am “Fan” or “groupies” of anyone only because my photography is not as good as theirs. In my country if someone is good rest of the artist will find every weakness but they don’t say just “this work is great”. We polish artist are jealous, envious and hypocrisy. I always try to be honest in this what I say to others photographers and artists. Now many of us “demonstrated” how good blog should looks like at the magnum’s website. But truly I have no idea how good blog should looks like.
    I honestly don’t know why I have started writing here so often almost every day. I am person who always keep myself little alone, little outside. Now I am in center of some big community, I am just top of the iceberg. But I keep my mind open and my mouths unfettered, even if I am afraid who reads this whole stuff, who reads in my mind. I am working in home now so I have many time to read and write. I should work at my second job for more films, trips and prints, for more photography but my knee not sustained too much work. So I am the best example how good blogger looks like. He sits before screen and looking, writing, boring, waiting.
    I am sure this blog will be not as strong as now forever. It is just impossible. At the end of the year here will be online magazine. New baby, new galaxy full of life.
    I consider where will be my place in this new creature. There will be at all?

    I should be professional documentary photographer.
    But I am insistent. I want make ambitious photography mostly of films. I think about pleasure of using 400tx than to make my clients happy when they looks at my digi pictures. I am worry that I will have problems with paying my bills, and fear to go outside and convince this very serious people that I am serious photographer. That’s why I am not pro. But also because my English skills are weak. And my photography is weak.
    Bumpy, hesitant, unfinished.
    Colorful easy.
    But should be not. Should be the best photography on the world. Should be unique, incomparable, shining. Should be if I could be somewhere out there and shooting now.
    Like you probably notices I am complainer. I complain for everything and always, mostly for money. As a defense I will say that after I closed some stuff (equipments, films, scanner) I complain less. I have to say I have all my tools to make good photography. Now we’ll see how talented photographer I am.
    I am going to Thailand for two weeks. Just touristic trip for my wife who work hard to her travel dreams come true. For me it is two week of photographic orgasms. Most important time at the whole year. Best light, unknown and new world. Everything new.
    My wife will rumbling that I am not notice her at all and I forgot about her and only waiting for good shoot. But it will be very responsible time also, because I will think all time that I have to get some extraordinary pictures there. But somehow I know I am good in this job when I feel free and untied. When I feel not like intruder and idiot with camera.
    Freedom, my camera and subject. Nothing I need more.
    All I try to say that I am very good blogger now, but after my Thailand trip and especially at the end of the year my life will be and have to change. I need real job because my finances are in terrible condition, but also I need treat myself and my photography more serious.
    I will buy a lot of films and I will work like serious photographer should do, even if I will not work for big magazines, even if I will not work for David’s online magazine.
    Maybe we are strong as a blog community, But I don’t feel too strong as a person and particulary not as a photographer.

    This is what I think.



    i just ran quickly through some comments i had missed….and i am trying to figure out quickly what is going on….i do not know if we have been hacked or whether what i see is what i see or what…dazed and confused….i also saw some comments with my name that i think were pretty obviously not really “mine”..

    hang on boys and let me try to figure this out….as you well know i have tried to maintain a “free press” here, but i totally understand both of you being totally offended…

    i have to be gone all day today and tomorrow as well….i am going to pull quickly the most offensive comments i can see and hold them until i can figure this out….


    you know i have been your biggest defender for free speech here..and a FRIEND…and a SUPPORTER OF YOUR FREESTYLE WORK…but, Rafal and David B., who had both at one time come around to you too, are rightfully a little more than upset at your comments regarding parenthood….

    please tell me it ain’t so…please tell me somebody “forged” your name….i just cannot imagine why , just as you were “sailing clean” with your work, that somehow you would go on a rant to offend so many….

    critiquing photographs is one thing, and a playful comedic parody of life’s foibles just fine too, but cutting this deep into the hearts of two of your colleagues who have just experienced the joys of fatherhood is more than a bit much…

    just as i have defended you over these many months, i would also have to defend Rafal and David and any of the rest of us here who have found parenthood as the ultimate life joy….

    ironically, and only because i “know” you in real life as neither Rafal nor David B. do , you would make a great dad…

    if by fate someday you are blessed by being a father you will understand why so many here felt a “knife through the heart”….

    please allow “freedom of speech” to both David B. and Rafal and me…just as heretofore we have allowed it to you…


    too bad i have to leave you for two days just when it seems we have some kind of emergency…i am overwhelmed by this one….as you know i was planning to close down the blog as is in a few weeks to allow us to grow into an online publication…

    off line on line or by whatever means possible see if you can help me with this one…it would be a shame to see our forum go away prematurely and have anyone feeling bad about an online “home” i have tried to set up as a free forum for sharing ideas about photography and life..

    peace , david

  • david AH

    PLEASE do not sweat it..

    i know rafal and i can hold our own.. and offense has well turned to laughter, on reflection of ‘mistra know it all’.

    i’m holding back.. more than able to hold back..

    and.. so.. to photography..


    to me you are doing just fine.. genuine whatever you’re saying..

    loud people are a vexation to the soul..

    grow… please grow..

    “we’ve touched on this before, but (I’m in the thick of this now) with the amount of time/energy/money it requires to fully invest in a personal photo project, I often feel self indulgent and it is hard to reconcile the investment with the outcome..for me, this internal dialogue clearly has to do with working on projects that are not ‘of service to humanity’ in a directly evident concern is that my life would be better spent if I were relieving another’s suffering in a tangible fashion. I do feel there is much merit in the type of photography I am doing, allowing others to be seen, but I am sitting here now, scanning my life away..I am not lost or in crisis, just trying to make sense of living this life that I don’t know how not to live. This is my way of being in the world, my passion, and I wont walk away from that, but I have to allow it its highest and fullest incarnation..and i haven’t figured out how to do that yet.”

    I do not think I can put it better than David B. But as I have been out there taking “random” portraits of people I do not know, not in the same way but in a similar way than you, I think I can add a little comment.

    There are different kinds of struggeling and suffering. And I see a lot of it along my way … Once the basic needs of shelter and food are covered, other things become important. If you walk along the streets of many places you will see them written all over the faces of the people you meet: lonelyness, the feeling of not being respected, … or not deserving respect, … not being worthy of attention, etc. And the secondary feelings of anger and rejection etc. .that result out of that.
    People want to be loved and respected by who they are but so often do not expect this anymore. So they put on a mask … or they crumble … or …

    You have people committing suicide all over the world. People that do have shelter and food. People that do have the basics for surviving. I wish I could put it in the right words so I could express what I mean …

    But …
    See in Helsinki I took the picture of Serge. You can see his portrait as one of the two demos on my site right now
    I met him on the olympic tower of the stadium and asked if I could take a portrait. At first he was all … “oh yes, I am a little macho” type … but when I got down to really take the picture he got all insecure… I was asking HIM(!!!!) to be part of an art project?! Really?! I must be making some kind of mistake. You really noticed his thoughts going back and forth. And how truly excited he was when he noticed I really did want HIM. He was my hero at the moment and he did feel good about it. So good! And in a very kind and humble way … which told me so much more about him than he could have told with words. Later I found out that he was bein accompanied by some sort of chaperone, he was one of the troubled youths of Helsinki … And he definitively had some trouble writing, as you can see on the card. But he was shining all over his face when we took the picture of him. I t was hard to make him stop laughing. And he had the most beautiful smile.

    This is just one story. I got many more of these.
    Loneliness and inferiority complex are a huge problem among our societies. There is huge suffering there. A different kind of suffering, a different kind of hurting souls, a different kind of despair. But a huge one nonetheless.

    You can make someone’s day by smiling into their faces. You can achieve even more by including them into something that is of such an obvious importance to you. It makes them important too. They ARE important. But often they have to be told first.

    I am out there to make pictures and by doing so I sometimes manage to build some bridges. Especially since my decision to slow down and spent more time with the individuals I meet, I feel I can give a lot to them and they give me a lot back. Both of us know we will probably never meet again. But so what?! It is just for the moment. But the moment really CAN make a difference.

    Please consider this, dear Erika…. You are not only taking. You are giving, too. You are giving attention. You are giving your time and energy. This is the best medicine for most of the illnesses of our current society … And it is a rare medicine … you cannot buy it.

    I hope I do not sound too crazy here …

  • david AH

    hey – a way-past love tells me she loves your hiphop snaps.. from viewing them in the same room as you..
    give her the hug which i have long not given her :o)

    peace and please push ANTON THE GREAT in mexico..

  • MARCIN….

    i had to read quickly….i could not digest it all…just know how much i have APPRECIATED you from DAY ONE on this forum…and i always will…you were the FIRST i think…either you or Rafal, i am not sure…


    so so sorry , i do not have time to look before i leave…i am late late now for my shoot this morning , but felt i just had to be here to calm things down a bit…

    you KNOW i would look now if i could, but i just can’t….you both will be top priorities as soon as i can get back “on” in the next couple of days…

    big hugs, david

  • Sorry, I am really lost here on the blog right now. No idea what is going on … been away too long and … contrary to reports I was seldom in the position to lurke and keep informed.

    I just happened to start where I thought I left off and there was this post from Erika that struck me….

    What is up?
    Where is DRR?
    What happened to Herve’s October?

    Could anyone please, please give me a short info?

    Bob, I really need your email again. Wanted to write you about something for ages now. Buried your email somewhere on my desktop … Need excavation to find it again…

  • MIKE…

    i owe you an apology…i am running so fast now i can’t explain, so just take my apology and hang on to it until i can write further…get it???

    fondly, david

  • HERVE:


    succinct answer to your good (and succinct) question:

    because, unfortunately, that’s who i am.


  • Oops … seems my timing was not the best.

  • working on THE SUCCINCT mode ;))


    ERIC: love that essay, really love it…now, i can you feed me some shots of the gym, the street, the “atmosphere” away from the faces :)))0…gorgeous stuff…

    RAFAL: again, in succinct mode: because we must, or rather, i, must accept. Just as Herve always busts my balls for my long, meandering bloated posts, so too part of the Panos of this blog is his language, for good or ill. You my friend use also some pretty outrageous language toward him when he first climbed aboard (criticizing his English proficiency and all this, which was pretty distrubing in my book). however, the 2 of u seemed to heal and get beyond that. and you called Panos self-obsessed and i merely pointed out that noone of us are different in this aspect. The moment we begin to judge or slag off others is the moment we need to hone the mirror upon ourselves. I dont like that venom and aggression of Panos’ language either (and i’ve told them that here and in private by the way), because he is responsible for how he inflicts suffering when he does this, but this also doesnt mean that when panos goes off on a rant, everyone needs to crash in and say “see, that’s what is awful about this blog, about panos” etc. Should you or David or Paul or the Arie or the countless others here (writers and lurkers alike) be offended with what Panos wrote and the way he wrote it: sure, of course, why not. It was a pretty offensive post at times, but that’s Panos’ problem, not ours. I found it mostly funny but also sad because it spoke to me more about Panos’ personal struggle with self and others than anything real about “selfish parents.” I dont know, maybe it’s mediation/the path, but i try to see the words as windows into another’s soul and i cannot condemn another because the truth Rafal is that no one of us are any wiser or more loving than another person. The day someone understands that for real is the day that person can speak to me about attention seeking. Someone who clearly loves their family has richly as you do and has worked as hard as you have should have seen the post for what it is: and that it has nothing to do with any of us really.

    now im gonna (promise to my smarter, wiser more succinct wife) leave this place for a while, for real this time. and now, nothing is wrong, just gotta spend the energy in a better, more loving way.

    see ya’ll, as David loves to write, “soonest” :))))


  • lassal

    photography is the only thing happening here of any real interest.. :o) ericas thoughts always provoke, no?


    quite right about october project.. whats it going to be?
    i got really confused about it.. there was mention of this and then than and then flickr and i drifted off – still very interested so tell – is the way now to send a photo to you?


    me too..
    newly appointed grandparents are visiting and i will dote upon them.
    regarding stone throwing.. we’re all part of the one.. good and bad.. good bad people, bad good people.. bad bad people and good good people.
    have fun.

    also – LASSAL

    the examples of your portrait project.. what a book that’ll be..
    it’s a fantastic idea in the first place and to see the mock up as you have presented it – the books design will be just superb..
    a great idea photographed in a very smooooooth way.. nice portrait work..
    i must get my postcard in the post..
    will try today..

    to everything, turn, turn..
    and out.

  • OK, 1 last post (see i cant even pull myself out ;)))) ) for David B :))))

    true that, true that :))))…

    now, dont forget you owe me a MM presentation of the little lion cub :)))))…

    be back soonest :))) (sorry, david (alan harvey) for stealing your “soonest” (i love it so much!!), but since that other “david alan harvey” showed up, i figured, ok, i’ll steal too ;))) )…

    now, can i steal your M6? ;)))))))….

    DAVID HARVEY :))))

    have fun in Mexico amigo and push Anton and the rest of them…i’ll be back to see their slideshow and leave another long loving comment :))))

    hugs y’all

  • Laughing

    Me..?? Jahova witness???

    … Me ?
    I love vampires.. Blood ..

    Mr. Mickey Rourke…
    You should try some blood too..

    Goodmorning from LA..
    Please stay away from
    The DEAD, the GUILTY, the adult..
    The boring.. The ignorants… &
    the Jahova witnesses,.
    Let me deal with them…
    “blood for breakfast???
    (mickey R… Still my favorite movie
    you ever done was 8&1/2 weeks.,
    I loved Kim Bassinger…
    Laughing …
    Nothing better than Reading
    Angry guilty letters for breakfast
    Morning y’all..

  • DAH,

    its all good. I decided to simply ignore Panos from now on, its no use really to get upset about it, its just poison and I dont need it. Your blog doesnt need it.


    yes, me and Panos had a war long ago and we made up. He however fired off a salvo to break the peace. As I said above though, Im not going to concern myself with him anymore. What I still cant get past is that you simply refuse to see the obvious. Color it with fancy language, at the base of it all, he said some pretty fucking offensive crap. Ive dropped friends I knew personally for saying less offensive stuff than that, though still offensive. Im also not buying your other arguments. That post WAS about others. It was a direct answer to David Bowen’s post and it was clearly written about parents. Panos isnt a parent as far as I know. I like you Bob but you are making far too many excuses for Panos. As I said, shit has happened to me, I dont lash out against people for it. The guy is FORTY for chrissakes, time to stop babying him and tell it straight.

  • rafal

    he’s easy to ignore, with a smile..

    propaganda is an unintellectual tool..

    now then – photos..

  • Rafal
    I’m a parent and wasn’t offended, so I ask in a inquiring tone… what offended you?

  • karim – whats your beef?
    with rafal or me – whats your beef?
    i thought someone else could deal with us, no?


    photography or nothing, i say..
    and since it’s a photography forum……

  • Karim,

    simply put, you and I have different histories with him, and perhaps different takes on what he writes. Im not going to indulge your inquiries, take it at face value that I was offended and leave it at that.

  • David I want to understand what he said that offended you.

    That’s my “beef”

  • i think your question is loaded, karim.. for me at least the subject is over – why would i open it again?

    can we all move back into a photography frame of mind.. now..

  • Was looking for a full resolution video example of the nikon d90’s video capabilities. I finally found one but was pretty dissapointed…

    Maybe one more generation and we’ll have something really great.

  • Karim,
    Please don’t “aknowledge”
    the dead.. They just want
    To come alive but they can’t..
    I feel their pain..
    Creating wars with the living
    for publicity..
    They did it before but they failed..
    They need publicity and love..
    They are burroied under their own
    Creating wars ??.. War??
    My poor friends.. But to create a war
    on this “planet”???
    You have to be from this planet..
    and I don’t mess with THE DEAD or the ghosts..
    Some discovered this blog when
    their TV broken down…
    .. But my heart breaks for the DEAD..
    I can see how much they are eager
    for Aknowledgment.. And love…
    Some people have Jesus
    Some people have Mohammed
    Some people have Buddhha..
    Some are Jehova’s Snitches..
    My GOD??
    His name is HOWARD..
    To all that are Alive..
    Good morning from the city of Angels
    6:40am..( sorry , no time for your demons today..)

    … LASSAL !!!
    Nice to have someone “alive” around here..

    Some some of our “friends” here can

  • TO ALL-

    I spoke briefly with DAVID early this morning as he had asked me to call. We just had a very brief conversation about my work but kept it short as he was about to go out and shoot for this ad today… THANK YOU DAVD for always being available even in the middle of all this….

    Separately, I sensed that he was bothered by the dynamic here over the past couple of days and really hoping that we can go back to the friendly constructive place that the blog has been… This is certainly a wish I share. Let’s all move on and talk about work, photography and life without attacking each other…. David also indicated that we should not be worried about the Blog going away. It will not disappear…it will just evolve into something new and even better, a place where it will be easier for us all to show our work etc… So, nothing is going away!!! Just should get even better and gives us a forum to more easily show work.

    Have all a good and peaceful day :):). Going away to do some work (unfortunately no photography today although might try to see “my” boxers towards the end of the day)..



  • HaHa listening to Howard right now too!
    He has the chick that just broke up with verne troyer (mini-me)

    -={ (. )_( .) }=-

  • karim

    keep an eye out for the professional version which nikon are bound to working on..

    the d90 may not be up to broadcast quality, although it’s pretty good..


    i know it.. rafal knows it..
    it’s a beautiful day..


    Wow what an amazing way to present an essay!!! Photographs are beautiful…. but we are invited to pick and choose what we want to see!

    Amazing! جميلا!

  • hey – you’re right..
    there is little more humbling or upsetting than seeing slums and hard poverty in the flesh.. the photographs are disturbing.. the reality much more so.

  • oh – did i miss a baiting there?


  • and now i am away.

    please consider erics post…

    pea’s n chips


    Love you all dearly but I’ve got to take care of myself right now. This roller coaster ride we’ve been on of late is bad for my happiness & health. Got to take a break…

    Feel free to stay in touch by email at

    I’ll return…

    love & peace

  • ERIC E…

    You already know that I love your work. You have gotten lots of critique and feedback here recently, maybe too much to process (?), but let me add my own response for what it’s worth. I want to echo what Bob Black said about hoping to see more environmental shots, the gym, the neighborhood, but also the actual practice and sparring underway. I know DAH steered you towards concentrating on the portraits… I think you have more than enough of those at this point. However strong they may be (and they are very strong), after a while I personally found them a bit repetitive without a mix of more environmental shots. And although you may not want to concentrate on the actual fighting, I can’t help but feel that something is missing without that.

    I remember some of the very strong photos of yours from early in the project that got left out when you moved to concentrating on the portraits, and I hope some of those will come back in the final mix.

    It has really been a great learning experience to watch the evolution of this project, to see the gradual accumulation of great images, listen in on the advice from David and others, and hear your own reactions. I know that many readers of the forum are eagerly looking forward to the book that comes from this process, and many will feel that they participated in a small way in its creation.


  • Eric
    Sir you have a great story. The photos themselves certainly speak to the story, though I found only a few that were visually appealing. What I mean to say is to echo what the others have already said. I feel too close the subject and don’t see a particular photograph that is “eye candy.” I know your end product will be spectacular and look forward to what you serve us.


  • Ron Paul and Nader have a chance!!

  • Eric,

    I want to echo some of what Sidney said. I Love the colours, the attitude the unflinching straight into camera stares…
    However as a “viewer of photos” (is there a better term for this?) I get the impression you used one particular lens so the images have one common look. I tend to switch off from a set of photos if they look too similar in some way and I get this a little way into your set. DAH tends to be sparing on his lens changes and one of the reasons I have his books and I’m here right now is that his pictures don’t have this effect on me. He is switching up subject/composition/distance in some manner that it does’nt bother me, investigations continue. I would be interested to see very different pictures mixed in, perhaps made with a different lens, or maybe you’ve got these different looking shots with the same lens.

    Its good work and I hope my comment is helpful to you…

    Peas in our time?

  • Karim,

    Cheers for the link. Regarding video shooting SLR’s there are some fullsize clips from a 5Dmkii shooting video for download at:

    I’m personally pretty interested in this stuff and intend to assist on some video shoots to see how to go about making good moving pictures. The EASY bit, as with still photography, is the camera…

  • Hi Karim,
    I would like to write you an email but I do not seem to get on your site to look for contact information…

  • YES! woo hoo! Now, getting down to serious stuff, here is my latest mind bomb:

    You can’t, much as you may want to, sue God, something I am sure the Lord in His infinite wisdom is almighty glad to hear. This bit of Good News comes to us all courtesy of a Nebraska judge, who tossed out said bit of legal silliness filed by an Omaha legislator who wanted God to pay up for all the trouble, terror, and other not nice things done either by Him directly or by others in His name. The judge, obviously a man of Solomonic wisdom, dismissed the case with prejudice, stating that since God had no address, the court could not serve Him with the papers necessary to inform Him that someone had filed suit against Him. Friends of the legislator, who must have a very safe seat or has decided to end his political career in spectacular if very silly fashion, countered the court’s legal reasoning, calling it specious in the extreme, pointing out that as the Lord is both ubiquitous and omniscient He has no need for a fixed address and already knows about the lawsuit without needing a process server to inform Him of that fact. Nevertheless, the wheels of justice, being essentially bureaucratic in their nature, dictate that the process server must serve the defendant, whether that defendant is the dumbass who ran his car straight into your garage door after a St. Patrick’s Day party or the Supreme Being. The state, after all, is paying the process server to serve legal paper and the state expects the process server to do something for the money, unlike, for example, the state’s expectations for the people at the department of motor vehicles, which is the bureaucratic equivalent of the island of lost souls and from whom nothing is expected except a prolonged case of agita.

    Still, an appeal seems likely at this point as trial lawyers and insurance companies begin to square off for what promises to be the steel cage legal death match of the eternity. The financial stakes for the insurance companies could not be higher. For as long as there has been an insurance industry, there have been those events that we all know as acts of God, events so rare and so unlikely that that no one in their right mind, a classification that immediately eliminates most lawyers and all Red Sox fans, would expect an insurance company to write a policy on. Everyone understands that no insurance company has ever calculated your chances of having your pancreas ripped from your body and eaten raw by a gray-bearded schlirchher bird-fungus from the planet Grokklesnorp as you head off to your nearest Dunkin Donuts for your morning cup of coffee. This is just something that does not appear on any actuarial chart that I am aware of and, as far as the insurance company is concerned, not an event that they can assign a dollar amount to. Should this admittedly unlikely event occur to you or to someone you love, it would be one of those acts traditionally ascribed to the Almighty, like earthquakes, avalanches, and that little old lady who doesn’t bother to check for oncoming traffic as she makes a left turn onto a major highway, which I know is definitely an act of God from the way I screamed, Jesus Christ! I am sure if you are not a Christian you would have used the name of your conception of the Divine in vain as well. If God suddenly becomes liable for the acts traditionally ascribed to Him and the workings of His Divine Will, many insurance companies will go through the legal boilerplate on all of their contracts to make sure that none of these acts require them to part with so much as a red cent. Worse even than this, insurance industry lobbyists are already hard at work in Washington, trying to make sure that Congress does not pass legislation requiring the Almighty to take out some insurance if He wishes to continue going about His mysterious ways His wonders to perform. Wonders are all very well and good for your average insurance company, so long as they are not on the hook for the damages.

    Trial lawyers, by contrast, regard the Lord and all His works as the biggest potential payday since the invention of asbestos, an event that any good lawyer will have no trouble connecting with the Almighty. Indeed, there will scarcely be a major or minor disaster anywhere in the world that the trial lawyers will not try to pin on the Lord. And given that the Lord is eternal, the number of billable hours a smart lawyer can generate will be truly astounding. Had the option been available to them, the wrongful death class action suit for the citizens of Pompeii killed in the eruption of Mount Vesuvius in 79 C.E. would still be winding its way through the courts, with the descendants of the original lawyers still getting rich off the case. Yes indeed, there’s nothing like a volcanically active planet with no written warning sign stating that living on this planet might be hazardous to your health to set any personal injury lawyer’s eyes aglow with a selfless desire to help the insulted and injured of this earth, and, of course, to make out like a bandit without any of the attendant risks.


    I was not first one here but maybe I asked first irritating questions you may answered. :)

    All, I have to sometimes express what I have in my freak mind in my own chaotic way.
    Conclusion, more photography, less bloging.


  • This blog is amazing and is growing so fast! PATRICIA – yes, add text, very moving and pitched just right.

    ERICA “honestly I don’t think i could carry on as a photographer if, sometime soon, the work itself isn’t going to move me in the same way that work of others i deeply admire does ” – I’ve just been looking at a few photo books and thought I’d share a few comments / observations with you (and everyone else). Dark Odyssey by Philip Jones Griffiths: a fantastic monograph of his photographic career, 180 photographs. All those years and only 180 photographs.

    A quote from Bill Allard’s book The Photographic Essay “Although there was work I admired – Gene Smith, David Douglas Duncan -I didn’t see any gods walking around in the magazine photojournalism profession. I felt I was capable of working at that level. Not right that afternoon. But eventually”.

    From Jim Stanfield’s book Eye of the Beholder; “The first month, for the most part, when I’m on an average assignment, I’m not making great photographs. I’ve probably been off for a month or a month and a half……. I think we are a bit like athletes. Believe me, you get rusty in your movements, in your rhythm and in your confidence”.

    And now from me: many years ago, when I was buying my first supplies of chemicals to process and print my own black & white photographs I asked the retailer “Is it (b&w process and print) easy”? he replied “It’s easy to do badly”. I’ve always remembered that and have used it as a metaphor for photography (and, indeed, life) in general. It’s easy to do badly. It’s hard to do at the highest level. I believe that Eve Arnold cried when she first saw Capa’s negatives – she expected perfection in every frame. Someone reminded her that life is not (I’m paraphrasing here) not perfect. Henri Cartier Bresson is supposed to have remarked that if he got one exceptional photograph every year then he was happy. Photography is hard to do at the highest level, everyone. So let’s cut ourselves some slack and enjoy the challenge.




    What a pleasure to have you back here, and what intelligent things you have to say! I was just thinking about some names of people whose presence on the forum I have really missed in the last couple of months and your name was among them. We get some new blood among the posters here, but it looks like 80% of what gets written here is more and more by “the usual suspects” and it feels a little claustrophobic at times. Glad to hear from you.

  • LUIS

    Yes, David is holding a workshop in Oaxaca during the day of the Dead..this workshop runs from October 27 – November 3..then they are, I believe, heading over to Puerto Escondido for a little while after..

  • Lassal, OCTOBER never took off, because, the day it was to start, a very simple question was asked and though the blog had its usual routine of “look at my link”, ” your essay is great!” and “see how deep I feel” posts , no one had 5 seconds to answer that question. It was obvious to me then that to ask a collective effort of evryone here, was beyond the scope of our….Smirk…. Family!

    Bob, thanks for the answer. I still think that seeing the reason for all of us to behere based on self-obsession, attention catching and self-aggrandizing, is maybe a bit of a projection onto others of your own, which you kindly tell us about.

    If I was and did all that, I would just not share thoughts here, I would scheme and manoeuver as well…

  • Thanks Sidney, saw your photograph on the 37th frame – good eye.

    Hope this blog morphs similar to 37th F (i.e. frequent updates of photographs instead of having to wait a month for a refresh e.g. The Digital Journalist).

    Mike R.

  • ERIC

    I second Gina’s sentiments about your work WOW! Gorgeous images, just gorgeous!!


    I really enjoy your posts to this blog — your writing is thoughtful, intelligent and sensitive. Your photographs are the same.

    Your post of the other day spins in my mind and I know I’m a little late to this discussion, but nonetheless…

    If a portrait you’ve made makes a man appreciate his wife a little more today, or inspires a woman reach out to an elderly aunt she has not called in some time, or makes any one of us better appreciate the lives we have right here, right now… who is to say this is not as important or meaningful in the grand scheme of things as say, Nachtway’s fine, fine coverage of TB?

    Personally, I believe that capturing and preserving history (with a small ‘h’) is equally important and meaningful as documenting History (with the big H)…

    Your work is beautiful and sensitive, and probably more important to some than you yourself will ever realize. Keep going, don’t lose heart. I want to see what comes next!


    To those of you who contribute intelligent and thoughtful discussion about photography, photographers, their/our motivation and the passion that drives all these things — I thank you.

    Your contribution is helping me get an education in photography without going back to school!


    Safe and happy travels to Mexico — I look forward to seeing the student work from this workshop.

    Immerse yourself in the blissful thing that is photography and think not of the circus that’s been in town these past few days. Soon the tents will come down and the village will return to normalcy… whatever shape and form that may take.

  • Herve, October’s not happening? When did this happen, or not happen, as the case may be? And Sidney, I think I object to being called one of the usual suspects. AKAKY IRL, on the other hand, couldnt care less. I know that’s so because he told me so.

  • ALL

    Last night I attended the launch party at vii for the new dispatches magazine;

    “Each quarter, dispatches examines a crucial topic in its full context, with seasoned writers whose experience is firsthand and with photographers who have shown an exceptional ability to capture human reality. Its bold design in a book-sized format is meant for people who savor the printed word and the long form photo essay.”

    Founders are Mort Rosenblum, Simba Gill and Gary Knight; while some of the work presented is by vii photographers, this is not a vii affiliated magazine. The magazine is commissioning semi-longterm new work, and to that end I would especially encourage you to subscribe if it is in your budget; it is well printed and hopefully will continue to impress. Gary spoke about more than anything, wanting to work with photographers that have authorship, and an individuated perspective. The initial issue was In America, the second Beyond Iraq, and the third will be on Russia..

    Several MM pieces were shown, including

    The Dear Leader, by Christopher Morris

    ирак by Yuri Kozyrev

    Godville by Antonin Kratochvil

    I had a chance to speak with Yuri for the second time, and both he the person on his work have had a strong effect on me. His work isn’t always easy to sit with, but for me, his willingness to persevere and tell a story that is difficult to tell with diligence and heart makes me able to digest that which he reveals.

    The founders plan to supplement the physical magazine with online content, which is already rich and filled with both written and visual is a link to the first issue


  • Hey Panos Thanks for answering my post, you said: (the last 3 days from the workshop… let’s have beer) , thanks… Can you, or anyone please let me know what days and the location of the workshop in Oaxaca?. Thanks again and Keep the good humor… Peace


    I was very touched by your comment to Erica. You are Erica are so articulate! I like your writing as much as your photographs… Two very fine ladies!!!! It was great to hear from you and to continue to follow your journey with this fascinating project of yours!! I would love to send you a postcard but doubt that you will come all the way to Ohio…

    Please keep us in the loop often.



  • LUIS

    answered you 7 posts up..

    Have to write everyone else soon..busy..xo

  • ERIC,
    Love your boxer series!
    I’m curious, how did you get in to this series? you might have written it earlier but I’ve missed it. Do you come from that background? you seem to connect very well with your subjects and that might not be easy for an outsider. Connecting with people is probably the most important aspect for documentary photographers working the way you do and you seem to do that really well. Others asked for shots of the surroundings, details etc. I don’t know about that, depends on how you want to do the project. Maybe it’s more of a portrait project?



  • Luis..
    Yes, Erica wrote all the info above..
    See you there..
    Yes.. thank you for appreciating my
    sense of humor.. You definitely don’t
    belong to the “serious” 2% of our
    religious fans here..
    I promise you, more to come..
    You have seen NOTHING YET..
    Beers on me

  • I tune in here to try to learn something more about photography and the process of becoming a better photographer. Angst seems to be a common thread within artists, striving to find our vision or version of the truth, having something meaningful to say and the technical proficiency to say it well….

    I am just one individual searching for something deeper, it is personal as well as professional. Emotional roller coasters seem to come with the territory….Through the Blog Smog I pick and choose what is pertinent to me and empathy is felt for those struggling. In some ways it is a comfort to know I am not alone in my self imposed angst. Geographically isolated, I don’t know many photographers and all of your personal experiences and photographic work have enlightened me these past couple of months.

    Most of all I appreciate the links to other sites and photographers.
    One thing leads to another….

    I learn so much from seeing and reading the honest critiques of your work, mostly from David’s perspective, but others as well. It takes a lot of courage to put your work out there whether there is a response or not….

    Thank you for putting so eloquently into words the things I feel and do not have the ability to say. Your projects, processes and perspectives are deeply inspiring to me…


  • Erica Mcdonald, thank you for the info about Oaxaca,,, Best Wishes

  • Akaky, what I forgot to say is that I made sure that OCTOBER project did not belong to me, everyone was welcome to butt in and offer to collect pix or set up a site to collect them. It was very easy for anyone to take it over from me.

    Hillary, frankly, we need to be honest with ourselves. None of the blog’s emotional roller coasters has anything to do with artitic angst rising to the surface.

    I’d hope that anyone thinking this about themselves would quickly realize the ridicule in such pretense and give it a good laugh.

  • HERVE~

    I was referring to each individuals emotional roller coaster as the process of artistic progress ….not the blog itself.

    It was mostly in reference to Erica’s post about feeling momentarily lost and evident in others comments that we all go through it, and well…. it helps to know we aren’t going through it alone… especially if someone reaches out.

    To me it has reference to photography as that it is what we have chosen as our art and form of expression. It is my feeling that through this process that great art is created and I do see it here rising to the surface.



    thank you for the dispatches-links above … !
    I am preparing to move over to multimedia here and there, too. Collecting audio now for my “Wishes” project … Seeing what is possible to make by following your links is very valuable to me now.


    ditto for the link to “the places we live”. I had planned something quite similar for “Wishes” with a navigation around a map showing where I took the portraits … Because it is getting more and more … and there are so many additional infos to the project I would like to share, but my site would just burst. At present the pictures are falling a little behind because I cannot but put them up this small … So I am preparing a separate site for this project – and for “Meaning” too – to serve the project better.


    I would have never imagined that this project would get so … intense … It is really taking over my life at the moment. So I understand a little of what you mean.

    You have to scan and I have to edit. But… have not managed to do much more than some backups. I have weeks of editing still ahead of me …


    thank you for your kind words. If you only knew how much I struggle for each word! If you only could sense the enourmous differences between what I want to say and what I end up saying… Well …
    But it is good to be making some sense at all. Sometimes I doubt I manage that.

    That is why I prefer to take pictures. Very simple actually. It is the language I feel most comfortable in.

    I read everyone commenting on your latest edit. Could you please post the link again, Eric?! Do you have a separate link for every edit? Or do you have a separate Gallery for the “rejects”. I would love to have another look … I missed a month here now and I fear this means I missed a couple of edits. I remember your photos quite well … I am very curious what became out of it.

    And please … Do have someone write me a postcard from your place, I’d love to come to Ohio! I am going all over the place. Will be visiting Gina and Nacho in Washington, will be in NC, Charlotte to visit some old friends, in San Francisco too, will be in NY, will maybe travel around by car, everything is open! And I probably will not manage to do it all in one go anyway. Or I will have to take my hardware to do some bread-job from there for my German clients … Whatever … I’ll figure it out somehow.
    But please write!!!

    I have had so many people from the blog announcing postcards, but none have arrived until now. Even if we still have plenty of time for whatever, I am really hoping to hear from all of you soon. Things can change very fast and … sometimes windows of opportunities just close in front of us. So I prefer to plan tight and keep things going as fast as possible.
    Even so I feel all is going much too slow …

    Sounds melodramatic, but … I’d like to get a couple of things done before I die. And as I do not know when this will be I keep running as fast as possible. Because… at the end it could be … tomorrow. Or next month. Or next year.
    That is what keeps me going. That is the way I tick. And even if it sounds strange, I actually like it. I like it because I now know what I am doing and why. This was not the case until recently, so I felt awful running for “nothing”. “Wishes” was not really in the plan, only the other project (“Meaning”) was. Amongst some other things that do not belong here. So now I have to really hurry to get it all done in time!! :))


    sorry to hear about OCTOBER …

    thanks amigo!!! :)))
    Same for me.


    can you imagine… The Giacomelli book has not arrived. It had an absurdly long delivery time. And apparently now it got lost in translation… in transition… whatever.
    And they do not have a second one so now they are refunding the money.
    Guess I will try the less expensive approach over amazon UK now. I hope they still have a copy.
    My oh my … it is sure hard for me to get to this book. :)

    Thanks for your mail ….
    It helped me a lot, you know? It gave me some answers I needed.
    I owe you.
    Thanks again and all my love to Marina.

    Will write as soon as I can. Have to finish some deadline work now again. As it goes …

    Love to all of you!


    yess… emotional rollercoaster is a good description. I allready had quite some set backs with “wishes” and everytime this happenes I get more or less into despair.
    Not long ago I wrote DAH about it. Unfortunately he was running and out of time, but it helped to read his comforting words telling me that he felt he was in a very similar situation than mine at just that moment …

    Yeah… for me it helps to talk about it with someone… then I manage to see it with more distance. There always are some kind of alternatives and solutions. The trick is to find the solution that makes the project even better than it was before.

    So… considering this I really hope to find further pitfalls along my way. And I know I will probably not have to go far for the next one.

    Some of them … I can smell them already.


  • Wow! the f..k was that all about ?!?
    At first, I thought to just come and take a look, then had to really put aside the day’s work to get back to it all…

    I just don’t wanna get into all that… “let bygones be bygones”, let’s got back to what this blog’s all about ! Back to a “family” full of love/hate relationships that can manage to just take a step back and breathe. BREATHE people !

    I agree with DAVID B about one thing (and to try and follow HERVE’s “short guidelines” to BOB B): let me say this :


    So, back to rockin’…


    Thanks for the links. I especially like Chris Morris’ MM piece that I saw a week ago.

    As I couldn’t manage to get my sorry arse there yesterday, I’d like to know why you said that Yuri Kozyrev’s work “isn’t always easy to sit with” ? (A guy I admire for such a consistency in covering Iraq).
    Nothing intented, just your point of view…

    By the way, here’s another point of view well worth seeing, especially about a country too rarely covered nowadays: Rwanda.

    I saw Patricia’ link to M. Bleasdale’s awesome work of my childhood coutry so… here it is – “gift” for PATRICIA :

    “Rockin'” out,

    Tokomónono na nsíma !


    i am exhausted from today’s shoot but feel compelled to do a post…..maybe tonight i hope…

    stay tuned….

    cheers, david

  • Yeahhh…
    Let’s do a post about the
    “day of the DEAD”.. Or the
    “day of the GUILTY”… Or the
    “day of the BORING”… Or the
    “day of the lazy”…

    I’m not kidding .. Look at my face

    LOL ..


    I like your style….You Go Girl!!!!!


  • DAVID~

    To finally answer the question of this post, the only obligatory shooting I have done is that from which I feel a moral obligation. I feel compelled to tell a story, help a cause or organization with my images. Another obligatory job was a good stint as an aerial photographer, hanging out of a helicopter with a Hasselblad. The subject boring…the job so much fun…

    Mostly it has been pro bono work as the people who needed the images were non profit organizations concerned with environmental & conservation issues …I still want to do this, my problem is choosing what to photograph and dedicate a large percentage of my time to it….There are so many issues I feel passionate about but none compare to some of the great documentary work I have seen this year.

    Up until this year, for the last 6 years or so, I’ve helped raise 2 stepdaughters…and have basically only taken my camera out when I have been traveling, which has been about 3-4 months out of the year, to some amazing places on this planet. Purely for my own enjoyment, thinking I would do something with all the pixx later.

    This year, for several reasons I needed to take things to a higher/deeper level and I am trying to re-educate myself, pushing my own boundaries. The problem is I want to make a living as a photographer, create fine art, and document some very important issues too…A bit out of whack…hopefully I will find the balance…the thing I care least about is the money, although making enough to support my photography addiction is necessary.


    I too at a very young age thought I would be in Africa helping orphans…only the furry kind….I still think one day I will be there…

  • First time I came across your posts and pictures .. enjoyed reading it .. the language and images together kinda gave me this urge to get to the beach

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