762 Responses to “”

  • About Bruce Gilden, ‘really love that video on youtube, especially that moment when a passer-by tells him: “not here!” and Bruce shows his pedigree…

    New York, babe! :-)

  • Is this open to everyone or is it just for the workshop participants?

  • Benjamin

    I just have a look at your website and I’ve read that you are from Faroe Island. I don’t know too much about this place maybe only they exist (I apolpgize) but when I saw images I just fall in love. I want to go there!
    Please tell me some about your country. When I should go there and where?
    I will read about it, but just some quick suggestion.
    This is expensive country for turist? I can’t find too much hotels in your country, only those expenive.

    Thanks for info and greetings from Polnad.

  • David, wish I was there. Maybe next year.

    Benjamin, just had a quick look at your website: like Marcin I really like your work – will return to it later.

    Good light,

    Mike R

  • David… Are you going to publish some of their photographs on your blog? Wish to see their works…

  • What’s it like to party with Gilden? He seems quite a tough one when interviewed!






    great work, love the stories…will look at the entire site today at lunch! :))


  • Thanks for the nice comments. Some of the work is a bit dated, I have been working on redoing the site this last week. This is the rough beta version.

    Marcin, the Faroes is incredibly expensive for tourists. The hotels are outrageous, as is the transportation. But you can get a ferry from Scotland, Norway or Denmark that is much cheaper. And let me know if you want to go and I will get in touch with some photographers there who might be able to find a place for you to stay, which is the way to go.

    It is about the most beautiful place you can ever go though. And the government loves trying to get press, so just call them proposing a story and they will hook you up.

    I am half Faroese and was just living there for the last year, and it was a great place to work. I am in the New York area for a couple of days though and would love to come by for the fiesta.



    this invitation was sent out to the so called ‘New York photo world” , my disparate friends, and MEMBERS OF THIS FORUM….all of the above are invited…please come….

    a quiet respectful showing of the work of Gene and Bruce and the GRAND FINALE of my workshop STUDENTS will be followed by a fiesta of which i will have very little control….

    cheers, david

  • BOB…

    i am expecting Marina, Dima and you here for the final workshop…of course, by then there will be a smoldering hulk of what was once dah, but that is just the way it goes…

    cheers, david

  • …..pity…maybe next time.


  • DAVID :)))

    do not worry, we WILL be there for your final workshop!!!! :))))))and we’ll be cheering on your workshop students with mucho love!!! :)))

    …i’ll call u next week once you’ve had a little “R&R” between workshops …and in 2 weeks, we’ll feed you lots of hugs, love…and oh yes: ICE WINE for you too is coming…(at long last) !!!!!!…

    we will take you in whatever shape you’re in ;))


    p.s. love from marina (we were talking about you last night after meditation)…

  • Benjamin

    Thanks for info. I am not photojournalist but for sure I will find many ideas for good stories in Faroe islands and even get some assignemnt.
    I have to go somewhere alone. It will happen during next year. I was thinking about Siberia, but it is so F..king far away, what I will do anlone in syberia?? and Now! everything I need I found in Faroe Islands.
    Yes, I think this is the place for me and my photography. And shooting fishers I have dreamed about so long….

    I have a purpose now.
    I feel destination.
    The strong wind will blow and give me a new energy I have lost somewhere.

    When is the best time to go Faroe islands?


  • Wish I was there too….. Hope you all enjoy it and get it under control!! :D

    Have fun!


  • marcin: “When is the best time to go Faroe islands?”

    a: when the rain is warmer :o)

  • Marcin, you are a photojournalist.

  • David: is Gene Richards still working in video, or has some new photo work? That should be interesting…but I won´t be able to be there. I will also love to see Gilden´s new work (republicans and democrats?).

    Enjoy the party and please load some pics after it.


  • Michael,

    unfortunately I puplished nothing in press, so I am not photojournalist. I had some publications in cataloguses and some other piece of papers but nothing in press.There was the time when I almost not started working for press, but i changed my mind.


  • I should say I know nothing about publications of my photos in press, because I made many documentary work for institutions and festivals and i had no control whta were happen after.


  • Hi David:
    Is Julio Muñoz from Trinidad Cuba, Rosa, the girls, dog, horse, very well after 2 big hurricanes. Luckily Trinidad suffer just a very little damage comparing with some part of Cuba where the destruction was total .
    Trinidad, beautiful like always; waiting for you for the photo workshops. I have this year 2 with the british Keith Cardwell, see my site ; as you can remember this site was your idea.
    Best regards:
    Julio Muñoz, the best photographer in Trinidad de Cuba (unless the only one………….)

  • Ah… Sorry to be missing it, so close! Perhaps see some of the work next week though?…


  • Julio

    Good to hear voice from Trinidad, one of the most beautiful places of the world and the best light for photography!
    This is sad what you say about hurricane’s damages in Cuba. I wish you all the best!

    Btw; when I was In Trinidad I stayed in Mariela’s casa on bolivar street I see on the map from your website it is very close of your casa.

  • hm, funny… the blog is not banned anymore over here in China…

  • DAH

    AM very much looking forward to this of the rewards of living in NYC..excited too to see ANNA B’s work..and hopefully to see GINA there. I know KELLY is coming as well, going to be a good night..Am a bit happily stunned at the guests EUGENE AND BRUCE..

    LASSAL CARRY OVER from the other thread..

    keep wondering if you familiar with french artist Sophe Calle who works with the written and photo narrative?

    To save time, some cut and paste, disjointed notes..

    Her work frequently depicts human vulnerability, and examines identity and intimacy. She is recognized for her detective-like ability to follow strangers and investigate their private lives. Her photographic work often includes panels of text of her own writing.

    For her exhibit ‘Take Care of Yourself’, Sophie Calle asked 107 women, chosen for their profession or skills, to interpret this letter, to analyze it, comment on it, dance it,sing it – all in the form of texts, of photographs and videos.

    And in another..

    Ms. Calle’s exhibition begins with a narrative covering 92 days leading to the end of a relationship. Viewers lined up to “read” through what the artist describes as her most profound personal pain. Each photograph is unsentimentally stamped to mark that day and laid out like a calendar of regret. The exhibition spans over 20 years worth of photography and installations.

    a photo here:


    You and Marina were in one all night long dream last had just come to visit, crazy stuff, we were eating old books that had turned to dust and I was showing Marina how I fly with just my meditation scarf extended in my arms for outright exhausted from it this morning, but holy sh.t..looking forward to your stay.

  • i think my comments were lost in the end of the ‘war photographer’ note…so i re-post them…

    thank you! It’s great that you took time to look my pictures.

    As I don’t have an authorization of the dancers (there is dozens of dancers,and i don’t know them personally), i solve the problem by showing only back photos. I’am working on another dance solo where I know the dancer, so i’ll be more free.

    I put my site online after talking with you at Visa, and for now, it was just to introduce myself to other bloggers, and a starting point to build and share something more serious with everybody there (so…just the beginning…)

    ALL / DAH
    I made a new dance photos presentation including more portraits:
    then go to ‘projects’, ‘dancers #2’

    Everybody comments are welcome!!!

    Bonne chance pour le festival…


  • the blog is not banned anymore over here in China…

    I am sure Panos can single-handedly fix this anemone…Er, anomaly, quickly! ;-)

    Tibetans are now under drastic police and army surveillance, with the ensuing arbitrary abuses, imprisonment and death, part of the arsenal of any self-respecting stalinist regime.

  • so….. once again…

    fuck the china republicans republic of the CHINA PEOPLES
    OF CHINESE CHINA…. WHATEVER the new official name is…
    ( in greek villages they say : “you can change your clothes or your name, but you cant HIDE…)

    we are still WATCHING YOU ….
    GO KILL SOME MORE MONKS …. that will be the great
    challenge after the olympics mockery…

    Less is more…

    so, go kill some more MONKS… FEEL BETTER…!
    god damn it… get outta here….!

    ps:.. please … shows us your democratic balls.. and BAN our blog


    ps: CAN anyone help me translate all the above in CHINESE please ?

    PEACE FOR TIBET….! ( tired begging them for peace .. )
    fuck it … im out..

    ( Katharina , nice to hear you are free to post.. )

  • Herve,
    yes, and …. ????

    Katherina, do you know how many people are susceptible to say exactly that looking at anything you, or Sean (anyone, but both of you are china-based), essay and shoot?

    If we had to listen to anyone coming in and saying “yes…and?”, then how much sense does taking pictures make?

  • Herve,
    I simply said that the blog is currently not banned ……It’s a fact, can’t help it …. how you “read” this…. is up to you. It was not meant to be a pro/contra Tibet- China argument.

  • Herve and Panos,

    There is so much on the news about this issue with China/Tibet; I think hashing it out on a photography blog is rather limp use of your protests. Like preaching to the choir. I am very concerned about Tibet’s freedom. The DL came to Maui and I stood not 50 feet from him and heard his wonderful laugh and heard his incredible wisdom. If someone of that caliber is unable to get Tibet’s freedom, how does cursing at China on a blog help?

    Not being mean….just want this blog to remain on course. If there is a Chinese Embassy in your home towns, picket.


  • ALL

    Wow. I just added them up (ok, so I’m a little OCD)…in the time since I’ve started reading here (just before the self-portrait “general” assignment) there have been over 5,500 comments…amazing!

    I said back then I was jumping in….to do so fully, I think I need to present answers to some of the questions that DAH posed to Guido (and that Erica has subsequently posed to me, hopefully she will see them when she’s done eating dust-books and comes down from meditation-scarf induced flight).

    So this long post is that background….feel free to skip to the end, as I can be long-winded :)

    I have been in and out of photography since the late 70s/early 80s, when in high school I bought a used Pentax K1000 and 50mm lens and taught myself how to use it. For those who don’t remember it the K1000 was a workhorse, a completely manual SLR that was built like a tank. Anyway, I learned some basic technical skills with it. At that time, I always wanted to be good at art, to be able to create things of beauty, to express myself, but I wasn’t very good at the usual art forms…drawing, painting, etc, and I gave it up. I didn’t really have an exposure to photography as art, and never pursued it (much because of the early frustrations of bad images and the cost of film/processing….).

    I went through the rest of college taking pretty decent snapshots (although I looked at one old album the other day, and see a few shots that show promise, if only I had known what to look for…..).

    During and right after college, I spent much time trying to “find myself”… including some years waiting tables and working sound for bands and working in a recording studio (I’m also a frustrated musician – would love to play an instrument well, but only play drums badly…but I do have a good ear and can work a mixing/recording console pretty well). Finally about 6 years later I completed my degree, got married, and got a “real” job. During this time, I pretty much abandoned photography. Over the years my professional career as an IT/information security expert has grown, and I am currently consulting and speaking to pay the bills.

    In the last year or so, I’ve become re-acquainted with photography, mainly because of the desire to be able to capture important family events, and, (more recently discovered), the still-present desire to be able to create art…and perhaps the realization of a bit of ability beyond my earlier failings with ink or paint…

    So we come to motivation….I want to be able to create good images…images that express me, that evoke feeling….I can do this in a limited way now, but I feel it is a bit random, perhaps only by luck. But I think there is more than luck underneath, and that with practice and guidance I can begin to consistently create something beyond good snapshots…one of the quotes I have from the blog I like is when DAH said

    “having a picture of drama is not necessarily having a dramatic photograph…two totally different things…”

    I want to be able to create dramatic, powerful photographs. Not as a career, or even to make money, but to satisfy my inner desire to create…

    So I suppose that is the long term goal…I know I have a loooooong way to go on that one ;)

    My short term goal is more specific….I want to create a portfolio so that by next year when/if I can attend one of DAH’s workshops, I can submit it proudly and be confident that I have what it takes….or, of course, to learn along the way that I will always just be a taker of good snapshots, and know this and be satisfied with it…

    I have posted a few images along the way, but have now re-organized somewhat and put together a web page where they are accessible…I will continue to update as I work and go along, and ask for critique and suggestions to improve…

    Deep heartfelt thanks to all of you who post and respond for welcoming me in to this great party, especially to our incredibly generous and gracious host, Mr. Harvey…I can see wonderful things happening, and want to be part of it…to contribute, and not just be “along for the ride”….so I will do my best in this regard…

    good light to you all…


  • OK, my link on that one had a typo. The one in this post should work.

  • Looks like another fun party—anyone have any frequent flyer miles they want to share?:))?:))

  • I forgot to say, one of the other reasons this blog is so much fun is because it’s the only one I know that regularly has it’s own soundtrack, provided by the participants….

  • SISTER ERICA! :))))

    wrote you a letter this morning :))…funny about your dream because I gave you lots of Metta thoughts last night during our Metta meditation (this saturday, Marina and i are doing a whole-day Metta meditation retreat!). I actually sent Metta to you and david and patricia and panos and lisa SPECIFICALLY last night (maybe that’s why we were in your dream) and to the whole blog in general :))…TRUE!…and we’re excited about coming…i havent thought that far ahead, ’cause im still wrestling with the edit of Bones and want something that will knock people’s socks off…anyway….send me ur number and i’ll callu next week…also, marina and i thought (if you wanted) we could also help with your photo shoot if you need assistants :)))…

    ANDREW B! :)))..i love any comentator that writes more than i do!!! keeps the pressure off ;))))…Im disappointed that Herve doesn’t write long comments anymore (what’s up Herve,?)…but, i’m so happy that big-daddy Akaky is here to juice up the Tolstoy-days of lengthy comments and that David (madman) bowen does his proustian best too :)))…or would that be Eric E who usually writes wonderful long comments as does Sidney when we can coax him out of the NW Rainy stupor ;)))……so lenghty or not, write write write away :))))…

    Herve: why are your comments so sure now?…i miss their length…:)))


    wow, this blog is always interesting to read…too bad it’s not in a bar! :)))

    all i can say is that im doing a metta meditation and that, (a buddhist sanctuary of monks is housed right next to our apartment and every morning i pass monks (old and young) doing a walking meditation) in the end money and oppression cannot last forever…

    gotta run

  • HERVE:

    i MEANT why are your comments so “short” now…..not “sure” sorry, for typo…i miss your long thoughtful “arguments”…

    anyway, gotta run…



  • Wish I could have been at the NY workshops…

    Have fun with the slideshows and enjoy the fiesta all;-))

    Best, Edward

  • oh i just fell off my chair laughing at HERVE’s remark that panos could fix the china un-ban of this blog single-handedly…

    AND THEN PANOS stepping in and rising to the occasion!

    i love you both!!!!

    (and yet again having a beer)


    (Posted this on the previous thread before I noticed this new one).

    Try taking a look at these and see if they are any closer to what you think I should be trying to do. The same general topic- Asian Vancouver. They were originally shot in February but are part of a huge batch that I am still editing. My own view is that it’s some of my best work to date (other than landscapes which have been my main thing for decades) but I’m curious to hear what you think:

    (Still best seen in Safari, don’t ask me why, but not so terrible in Firefox or Explorer)

  • would’ve loved to be able to make it to the fiesta… i’m sure it’ll be a blast…

    happy partying…

  • oh i just fell off my chair laughing at HERVE’s remark that panos could fix the china un-ban of this blog single-handedly…

    AND THEN PANOS stepping in and rising to the occasion!

    i love you both!!!!

    (and yet again having a beer)

  • I posted this on the War Photographers thread before dear Andrew B let us stay-behind folks know there was a new thread. Thanks, Andrew! This is what I wrote…


    Regarding ways to become looser photographically, this might be worth a try:

    Before I arrived at this blog I too was quite caught up with Composition with a capital C. I’d look through my viewfinder and consciously set things up in a way that satisfied my rather demanding artist’s eye. Golden Mean and all that. Maybe it came from decades of being a painter, I don’t know.

    Last May while at the Detroit Electronic Music Festival downtown, I found myself taking shots “blind,” with the camera sitting in my lap–I use a mobility scooter to get around–and the lens pointing up towards people’s faces. When I downloaded these shots I found a lot were totally off, but some were right on. And I liked them. They had an energy and life I’d never captured before. For examples, check out the close-up dance shots here:

    PASSWORD patricia

    The more I use this technique, the better I become at “guessing” where to point the camera, what focal distance to set, etc. I’d say I now use this “lap shooting” technique at least 60% of the time. I particularly like using it when I want to get portraits of people as they’re talking to me. I can stay present to the conversation without shoving my camera up to my eye and losing eye contact with the person. Sometimes I get shit, but lots of times I get pure gold. I’m convinced that’s because my subjects are not feeling self conscious like when I point the camera in their faces. I also catch them in motion, when they’re excited about what they’re saying. An example:

    Sidney, this might work for you or maybe not. But even trying it might loosen things up a bit. Of course, this technique is cheaper for us digital folks, but even with film it can work. Think of Walker Evan’s Subway series. It sure worked for him!



    i am laughing , or rather WE are laughing …”we” being yours truly and Anna B. who is looking rather stunning at the moment in the late afternoon light streaming through my window…do not worry, she must go shoot Spanish Harlem…

    anyway, we are laughing at what you said about Panos quickly shutting down our forum’s now free exposure to China!! funny!!

    yup, one or two of his China diatribes and we will be cut off forever….

    Panos, if you are reading this, and i have no doubt that you are, PLEASE let us have access to China….

    just think VENICE BEACH in China!! we can be like NEW INFORMATION for so many Chinese photographers who just need to be exposed to YOU (no pun intended)to get them going and start a revolution that will free them from their Communist/Capitalist dual identity crises and therefore SET YOU FREE from having to be the watchdog of Chinese aggression worldwide….

    think about it girls and boys….i will accept whatever decision you make regarding our foreign relations stance in either China or any other country…

    world peace!!! david

  • Anton said..:
    “(and yet again having a beer)”

    YES! Most definitely time for a beer….

    AND…if anyone could single-handedly get a site (or country) banned…it would be our very own PANOS! :)))

    Panos…what’s going down in Venice Beach? I am planning to wander my fair city’s “Festival Latino de Lexington” this weekend…there is a rich latino and mexican contingent here, because of the horse industry….and I will capture the event narrative style….we shall see what happens!


    yes, many of these are much closer…but, i would like to take you even further….not to take away any of the ideals you have already set up , but only to enhance them…

    are you ever in New York?? it would be much easier if we could somehow meet…and i will be traveling again across country soonest, so maybe there is another rendezvous zone…

    cheers, david


    i still have had no time to even look at my cross country trip of one month ago…i really need a whole day just to have a first look at my contact sheets, but i just have not had a whole day to do so..

    next week i have “off” (in a dah sort of way!)..i will send the contacts of you and Ed at that time…but, it would not hurt to remind me!!!! i do not dislike reminders..i need reminders!!!

    gracias for your patience….my best to Ed…

    cheers, david


    I will be that fly buzzing around everyone’s head at the slideshow on Friday night. Eugene Richards. Wow! And Bruce “in your face” Gilden. And 12 excellent photographers who have been fortunate enough to be taking your loft workshop. Triple WOW!!! Sure hope there will be some snaps taken & shared here on the blog. We will ALL be there in spirit.

    David, could you please give this thread a title so others can find it better? Thanks.


    I’ve just visited your beautifully designed web site and want to share some of my responses.

    I find your Gypsies portfolio the most engaging, especially when you use unexpected POVs and DOFs. For me the most effective images are the most abstract…like Image #1. I can hear the click of her castanets, and the colors and composition are stunning. I love the gesture of the dancer in Image #7 but find the audience distracting. If it were my photo, I’d use Photoshop to select the dancer and then blur and lighten the background so she would stand out better. Next time I’d try to use a lower f-stop. Image #6 is well captured and composed. I love her “come hither” look! I think Image #8 could be stronger if you went in even tighter on her belly and the swirling scarf, but I admit I am biased towards tight well-filled frames. That’s pretty much how I work myself. And can you convert Image #5 back to color? This is a series that cries out for color!

    I guess all of my comments show my bias. Each of us has our own eye and way of seeing, so, Andrew, take what I have to say with a grain of salt ;=)

    You obviously feel music and dance in your soul. I encourage you to explore this subject. Maybe at a dance club…



    Though I was once, in a long-ago previous lifetime (the Sixties!), a New Yorker, I haven’t been there since 1998. Most unlikely I will be there anytime soon. No money for travel beyond the immediate Northwest neighborhood, and frankly no interest in riding airplanes even if I could afford to. A face-to-face meeting is possible if you are coming thru Seattle sometime (lots of Seattle or near-Seattle folks on the forum, Tom, Katia, Charles, etc.). Or, even better, Vancouver… Sorry, I live in a tiny minimalist apartment and regrettably am not in a position to host you in our ‘City of Subdued Excitement’.

    I know that face-to-face and hands-on is the way to go… but just not possible due to current circumstances… I can hardly expect you to write at any length or in any detail, given the myriad demands on your time, energy, and attention… and the sluggishness of the medium in this case… still, anything you care to write will of course be extremely appreciated and deeply reflected on.

    Meanwhile I will send you a disk with three of my 4-5 minute music slide shows… quickest and most painless way I know to show you the full range of what I have done. (Naturally, you don’t have to watch them if it’s too painfull!!).



    You and I were writing & posting simultaneously–not the first time!–but PLEASE don’t sweat getting the contact sheets to Ed and me. Of course we look forward to seeing them but there is NO rush. You’ve really been on a tear, my friend. Please let next week be a bit of a chill-out time. Heck, you’ve got another loft workshop staring you in the face. I know you love them but they must take a tremendous amount of energy and attention. So next week, just CHILL…


  • Patricia

    Thanks so much for the kind words … the website is really not that fancy, I just was trying to learn to use a new (free!) tool and take advantage of my never-used web site space.

    I put up the single image of the male dancer in both B&W and color….note that almost all of these (not only gyspies, but the others as well) have very little (or no)photoshop applied…mainly because I don’t know what I’m doing with it much at all!

    color & b&w here:

    I suppose I should have said that in each of the “categories”, there is perhaps only one image I really like….the rest are still included to learn from my “mistakes”….perhaps I have too many now…the exception is “singles”, where there are ones that I feel are halfway decent…but them those have no rhythm, no flow….as they are all just that…singles….

    But thank you for taking the time to look and comment….no worry on how I take things, I grew up playing tennis competetively, and learned at a very early age how to take instruction and criticism and advice…some fits, some doesn’t, but it is up to the individual to filter out the pieces that don’t work…and even then, that can be a growing experience….

    Any other comments and ideas appreciated….I’m very much a “ok, now you need to go work on *this*” kind of person….I suspect this is why I’m constantly now thinking of “projects” or “assignments” I might do, in order to have a little bit of focus, of purpose…so any ideas appreciated….

    Anton, are you still drinking beer with me out there?



    you are a gentleman….i will give you as much time on line as i possibly can…and if my travels take me to Seattle, perhaps i can boat on up to Vancouver…


    well, of course, i knew you would say that…we will get the contacts out to you nevertheless…

    hugs, david


    i did not view all of your work…

    but, i did see one amazing picture…the guys playing instruments seen through a window frame…kind of surreal…

    cheers, david

  • ok… peace and love for China… MY SINCERE APOLOGIES…
    and to prove my regret… i am moving to CHINAtown here in
    L.A… as soon as my finances will allow it…

    LET THIS BLOG FLOW FREE… ITS only photography…
    i know, i know…
    i said couple things wrong here and there…
    but who am i anyways..
    my bad… please let me keep my job on the blog…and please let us
    transmit free all over the world…
    just photography
    just photography… thats all we care…
    please let Venice Beach links to OPEN free all over asia and or
    the pacific islands…
    I got Cathy all worked up yesterday joking,
    today is China… tomorrow never knows..
    ok… off for some CHOW MEIN & Beiijing beef with broccoli
    from the local “Panda Express”…
    love you all..


    You totally fascinate me…The ‘City of Subdued Excitement’… what a fantastic description!

    You might find this slightly impertinent, but do you relate to that label? Is that what you are getting at in your work? Is it mythology or is that what I find impenetrable about Asian culture? It almost seems like an onion to me, layers on layers, each one seemingly the same but just so subtly different…


    Thanks for the metta brother! I certainly felt much calmer this morning when I woke up!


    Wish I could be there, but best of luck for your students show. I wonder if everyone understands how much energy it takes and that you put in to organize this kind of thing…I am going to divert some of that mettabavana that Bob sent me and send it off in your direction… Cheers and I can’t wait to see the work…

  • David Bowen,

    just to carry something over from the last thread, because I think nobody reads old threads once bnw one start, they just carry old onversations over to new one (organic nature of this great place), I have totally reworked the Park Life set in terms of color to match Riverside, as I have been thinking for a while of intergrating both into one project. And Im sort of obsessed about consistency of editing (never mix b/w and color, always process the same way).

    David A. H.

    It was a very valid point about a change of style. The way I see it, while Riverside might be a totally different style from the b/w stuff, Parklife is intended to be a bit more like the family work in that if you look at it again when you have time, theres a strong presence of my family in it. Many of the photos are “streetish” but more than half of them focus on my family. Its in color but I think it resembles HSH in the intimacy a bit. The challenge would be to organically mix them with Riverside into a single sequence, having a contrast of the detached with the more intimate. Do you think thats possible, do you see a way to do it? So far I have the project segregated under the heading “Marooned”

    Also, David, I will be in the US next summer, so perhaps if it would be OK I could drop by NYC and see you. I wonder, do you have any events like this planned for next summer, like in August?

  • Oh, just in case you are wondering, Ive been busy on the b/w family stuff too, theres some new work in the sets, which Im continuously trying to refine as I go.

  • and thank you ALL,
    for the venice links tech feedback…
    and especially i wanna thank “YES”…..
    the most positive of all positive…..yes, simply yes..
    thank you “YES”..
    Ana Y..:-)

    spanish harlem it is… stay calm and focus…
    go LA

  • DAH,

    Thank you so much for taking the time to look and reply! I can only imagine how you must be “running on fumes” after the travel and the workshops and everything going on…

    The image you noted is of a drum circle, in a segregation-era theater that is being restored….I actually took 3 versions of that shot, and if I could go back would somewhat combine two of them…does that feeling ever go away, the feeling of “if I was there again, I would have done it *this* way…”?

    If you who may be travelling and pass through or near the bluegrass country of Lexington KY, let me know….there are many, many places to see and shoot…plus there is the fact that 98% of the worlds bourbon is distilled within 50 miles of Lexington…lots of distillery tours (and tastings!) to attend…

  • Lee, this not a photography blog! this is ROAD TRIP, DAH blog. Anything goes… As and when we wish. TIBET on road trip is OK.


    I talk too much already! ;-)( “war photographer” is still going on, BTW)

    Anton, David, Anna (a class act), you made my evening…

  • TO ALL-

    I am re-surfacing after a few days of no connection….Who would have thought that what was left of Hurricane Ike facing an unexpected cold temperature front could have created such a storm in the mid-west last Sunday…4 trees down in my garden, a metal garage door completely torn apart by the strength of the wind, some damage on the roof and no power since…. I have rediscovered how invigorating a cold shower can be in the morning….anyway, I was one of the 700M people with no power in the area and just got it back….so lots of catching up to do….4 days with the blog….even harder than no having a warm shower :):):)

    Looks like there is another classic Harvey party about to happen this week and FINALLY BOB will meet the man….I hope someone will take pictures for the rest of us!!!!!

    Anyway, I am going to go back and read what you all posted. Sounds like a lte night tonight….



  • LISA H

    Sorry to disappoint you, but the “City of Subdued Excitement” is the quasi-official name of Bellingham, Washington State, where I live… and has nothing to do with Asians! And not much to do with me. In fact, aside from many foreign students mostly studying English at our local state university and community college, there are not many Asians in Bellingham compared to either Vancouver, 50 miles to the north across the border, or Seattle 85 miles to the south. Once a logging, fishing, and mill-town on the shores of northern Puget Sound, Bellingham (85,000) has become a fast-growing “amenity’ town, popular with retirees, dot-com’ers, outdoorsy types, and well-funded refugees from the big cities looking for more nature and a slower pace of life while still having some semblance of “culture” (there are for example half a dozen large bookstores here and our public library’s circulation figures are off the charts for a town this size). Other salient features: a large marina for power and sailboats, mountain bike and hiking trails, sport fishing for salmon and crabs, sea kayaking, nearby access to snow-capped Mt. Baker (a prime ski-snowboard area), and the vast forests and jagged mountains of the North Cascades. There are drawbacks, of course. The climate is a lot like the west side of Tasmania:cold rain and grey clouds much of the year. And despite Bellingham’s vaunted pride in its ‘Arts’ scene, I find most of it pretty second or even third rate. Worst of all, good places to eat out are really lacking compared to even Seattle, and are not even to be compared with Vancouver, which has some of the very best ethnic food (especially Asian) in the world, and generally at reasonable prices. Not only is the excitement subdued in Bellingham, but so are professional job opportunities and salaries. Unlike housing prices, which are as high as Seattle! So I sometimes call it the “City of Subdued Expectations.”

    One of the names the Asians gave to Vancouver is “Salt Water City” and the city itself is about 45-50% Asian at this point. Many of the surrounding suburbs are similarly dominated by Asians: Chinese in Richmond, Koreans in Coquitlam, Punjabis in Abbottsford, and the whole ethnic stew in Surrey. Chinese are the largest group in the metro area, but there are also major populations of Filipinos, Koreans, Vietnamese, Punjabis, and Japanese. (Some white people too!). There are two separate “Chinatowns”, the old one east of downtown Vancouver, and the newer suburban one in Richmond where all the money is.

    As for Asian culture’s inscrutability… personally, I never found it particularly inscrutable. The Japanese, who I know well (having lived and worked there for 20 years) are among the most predictable (and reliable!) people on earth. Generally I would say they are sentimentalists who fear disorder and uncertainty. Koreans tend to be a bit more volatile and full of surprises, but also somewhat more passionate… yet still quite understandable if you learn their own frame of reference. I have had somewhat less contact with Chinese, but they seem to come in all colors and flavors as befits a melting pot continental nation… (How’s that for gross ethnic stereotyping?).

    The onion metaphor is a good one for looking at any culture, I think… but is probably just as apt for Asians trying to understand North Americans or Australians.

    Now if somebody could explain to me the mysterious motivations and dreams of the Australian female, I might have some more useful insight into humanity.

    Good onya, Sheila…

  • I meant four days WITHOUT the blog of course!!!!! An eternity!!!!!



    Yes,the male dancer works well in color. I concur with DAH on his assessment of the image of the drum circle through the window. That is exceptional! Other favorites for me are the boy with wet hair holding a shiny object in his hands (b&w), the misty view of the gazebo in the woods (b&w), the stark tree (b&w), the crowd of racehorses rounding the turn, and your reflected self portrait.

    I anticipate seeing more of your work, Andrew. “Festival Latino de Lexington” should be a great opportunity for you! Please share with us what you find there…



    I very much like what you did with the Chinese New Year Parade in Vancouver. I find these shots have a life and energy, a human touch that is quite engaging. That one close-up of the kids with all their different facial expressions tickles the life out of me. Nice capture!

    This series looks nice & loose to me.


  • LISA H

    Me again. After that long-winded reply, I re-read your post and realized you used the word ‘impenetrable’ as opposed to ‘inscrutable’… possibly a subtle difference, but also maybe a very important one, so what I wrote may have been quite off-target.

    I would put “impenetrable” this way: Walls within walls within walls. And no way for the stranger or casual observer to pry open the door to the inner areas behind those walls…

    Of course, there are ways in… but none of them are quick or easy. One way that can help one get inside is language… especially the written language, and that means Chinese characters which China, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and Vietnam all share as part of their heritage, the way Latin and Greek are the common heritage of Europe. These languages are very different than English and a traveler can pick up a few words and phrases, but to really communicate in them, to think in them, takes years of hard work (do you agree, Katharina?).

    Marrying into a family can help… it gives you an instant web of relationships in a heirarchy.. which are not voluntary ones, but based as much on obligation and ritual as personal inclination, but that can also be positive, and that is certainly an important part of what being ‘Asian’ means (do you agree, Rafal?)

    Working or studying in a total-immersion environment can help… because I went to graduate school at a Japanese university, and then worked in a college department where I was the only white face, I got to gradually experience all kinds of things I couldn’t have anticipated. Even for an American, I was once an extreme individualist-outsider-loner, but I learned to treasure many aspects of the group solidarity and group consciousness of working in a totally Japanese organization.

    Does all this have anything to do with photography? I think so… indirectly at least, because so much of penetrating the walls has to do with allowing oneself to ‘see’ things one didn’t see before… the imagined subject fades into the background, the background comes forward, something other than an object becomes the subject…

    All this is a meditation on your image of the layers of the onion…

  • Marrying into a family can help… it gives you an instant web of relationships in a heirarchy.. which are not voluntary ones, but based as much on obligation and ritual as personal inclination, but that can also be positive, and that is certainly an important part of what being ‘Asian’ means (do you agree, Rafal?)

    Well put. It also is different than shooting a family unrelated to you. I think it opens up many more doors, because you are instantaneously an insider, even if your camera may at first seem intrusive, that doesnt last long. My project, Family Ties (follow the link in my name) is an attempt at this, one which I lament has so far been a bit restricted due to time and opportunity (all that you see there was shot over 2 big holidays last year and a couple of visits over last year and this year to my in-laws’ and other relatives homes…I want to really get into the subject when theres a chance)

  • Sidney,
    …….takes years of hard work……
    It’s the never ending journey !


    I had seen some of your ‘Home Sweet Home’ and ‘Riverside’ pictures before, but I hadn’t seen ‘Family Ties’ until now… I really like this series, especially the pictures with Halmoni. When I look at this series, I can smell the kkaktugi…


  • Yes, DAVID,

    ANNA B. is stunning. I’ve met her and agree :))

    ANNA B. I can’t wait to read your comments about the DAH workshop experience. Hope you are enjoying.

  • ALL…

    I scored (free) tickets to the OBAMA rally tomorrow am in Espanola, NM. Home of Hispanic and Native American voters. Go baby go!

    I am bringing the camera OF COURSE….don’t know how “camera friendly” this type of event is…no bags allowed, etc. but hopefully they will allow me to bring it and shoot.

    I’ll let you know. Excited to see him no matter what.


    A truly elegant explanation, ‘cos yes I did mean ‘impenetrable’

    Its just Asian cultures I find tougher than most to get ‘inside’ of, I guess its because I feel that there is always a level of restraint and order and sort of a disconnection with the earth that totally befuddles me…

    And yes, I do believe this has an enormous amount to do with photography- Katharina’s work is a ‘witness’ to this exact incomprehension on my part, cos she unlocks the much more tumultuous and ‘earthy’ part of the culture.

    As for the motivations of some Aussie chicks, well I could say for that you will have to listen to ‘Khe-San’ by Cold Chisel, but for my own personal motivations, I would just have to say I have an overwhelming desire to understand the world…

  • Lisa, Sidney,
    “‘impenetrable”….. certainly also due to the ” keeping face ” demeanor which can be fascinating and/or confusing……but then also very difficult to get beyond.


    What a thrilling opportunity! I too was fortunate to attend an Obama rally…mine was here in Detroit on Labor Day. Here’s a link to my gallery of photos from that amazing event:

    Tell him Hi from Patricia!


  • Thanks all for mentionning Obama, which validates my talking about Tibet this morning (hey, Obama rhymes with Dalai Lama!).

    Katharina, if you ever come again to Bangkok this next winter (anyone of course), I hope we find the opportunity to meet. I remember you talking about “face” before, and it’s funny, but I find that I hear the frustration of not “getting beyond” more from western women than men, though face is not really gender related and permeates all ranks.

    yet, could it be that the fact that asian societies are heavily male-dominated (though women are hardly socially or professionally absent of course) has something to do with it?

    “face” as tenet of social discourse is a most fascinating concept. After so much time spent in Thailand and around, I think it has served me well in conflict situation in France and here, SF.

    I actually find americans quite into the face concept, compared to french, maybe even euros (remember Panos and Rafal, Greece-Poland, what a match!!!). People rarely scream here, or tell you what they think of you, and they can step back rather than aggravate a situation. French would rather just “have it” and be done with it…

  • Herve,
    let’s see….. just came back and haven’t decided on the next trip yet.

    hm, my remark was just meant as an extension of Sidney’s reply ( to Lisa ) on why Asian cultures can appear “impenetrable” …

    “but I find that I hear the frustration of not “getting beyond” more from western women than men”…..

    Really????? Why would that be ?


    If you are planing to travel to the Faroe islands, you might want to check out the work of Ragnar Axelsson, he has a book called “Faces of the North”


    i like the colour balance between the two and empathize with mixing variety.. it’s a difficult one.
    if the two bodies are to be shown as one i think it could work either way.. with the desolation of the riverside contrasted with the warmth of the family.. the desaturated family looks much more poignant like a faded 70’s coda-chrome.. past rather than present.
    thats to me of course.. and it may feel different to others.

    on tibetan / B&W topic.
    when i finally exhibited my work from tibet in exile i had to show a mixture of black and white and colour.. in 91, 92 and 93 i shot there in b&w only really.. couple of rolls of colour.. and in 96 and 97 i shot colour.. and so the story was divided up on the walls.. the old village, as it was.. poor.. without many comforts.. many people to a room.. and the new.. tv’s everywhere.. money flowing in from the sale of handicrafts, (as tibet and Buddhism was picked up more in the mid 90’s following films like ‘kunden’ (which some of the villagers were paid extras in)..

    so the photos had to work along the theme of chronology and it worked out in the end.. it was a stress and it did bother me that the continuity was interrupted on the walls..
    so one wall had 16 frames with colour and the other had 16 frames with b&w.

    i guess the thing is working within constraints and compromise can work out really well with some thought put into it.


    ‘and that David (madman) bowen does his proustian best’

    you know.. recently i’ve been worried that contributing to this blog honestly and fully might be doing my career more harm than good..

    i chatted with patricia about it.. and decided to stay.. since whatever i write is what i believe, and despite not being well versed in literature i can say without false modesty that i am well versed in life.. up till now.. and i still fuck up.. however.. if i have anything to offer i may as well write it down.
    i’m conscious that people build an opinion online and it actually worried me somewhat that DAH mentioned some editors subscribe and read.. i want to be judged on the day i leave my folio with them mostly.. rather than things i write.

    i’m not sure i have ever met a completely sane photographer.. artist.. even person, may be.
    it’s been a mantra of mine that the more specific your experience and the more unique your view, the more interesting potential you produce for your work.
    it’s certainly true i have invited madness at times.. have done all i can to get a folio which ‘speaks’ and have what a 17 year old (me) would call a full and interesting set of lives.
    at other times i’ve had mad events thrust upon me to cope with and it’s probably these unwanted events which produced who i am.

    so thats my long-winded response.
    the short-winded one goes;
    ‘yeah – and…?’

    pea’s n chips to all.


    have fun… envious of eveyone there..
    no invite here, however i would probably be best placed as a gatecrasher in any case :o)
    i’ll get my canoe and start paddling now..

  • ‘Working or studying in a total-immersion environment can help’


    i think that is the only way in most photographic circumstances..
    certainly with asian countries i have often heard both sides from women – that they wfeel they are not ‘let in’ as much as men, and i have also heard of a womans very specific and interesting experience in gaining access to intimate situations.. with other women.

    what has worked for me is almost to simple to say – gaining trust and respect are the only ways into any subject.. giving of yourself will lead to receiving from others and i think thats a rule whether photographing an eastern country or your next door neighbours.

    remember – we are all the same, relatively, and we all respond (within certain extremes) to the same things.. any divide between cultures can, i believe, be overcome..
    with tibetans for me – after a few months living on the village i was helping out with everyday and sometimes not every day events.. i would help with dinner and i helped with disposing of the dead.. knowing when to photograph and when not to was showing respect.. and knowing when to make a joke and when not to was just as important.
    before you know it, you’re invited for lunch with prominence monks.. studying tibetan mysticism and smoking green with the ‘coool’ kids.

    i think any work shows your level of communication with your subject.. and it’s easy to see a photographer who is photographing ‘these people’ as opposed to a photographer who is ‘understanding ‘people”..

    the way i interpret being ‘loose’ at photography is much more than as a technical exercise.. to be relaxed, at ease and get a good handle on the subject you have to be relaxed, at ease and have a good handle on the subject..

    it’s a good discussion – and thats my angle on it. i cannot understand what it is like to live 2000 years of Buddhism.. 50 years in exile.. have your family and friends murdered.. what i can understand are the day to day nuances which make us all human.. our failings.. our humor and our desire to be at peace with the world.
    respect breeds respect, helping is a positive circle and giving to a subject is the way to approach any unknown culture, be it the guys working in mcdonalds, an abused society or a nightclub crowd.

    it’s better to know how to cook an omlette before you break the eggs..

    (bob – i know my analogies stink:o)

  • DAVID (madman) BOWEN :)))

    listen amigo, my career is like SUNK :)), and im still standin’ ;))…in other words, which photoeditor (except the ones who know me personally here in toronto) are gonna like/respect me after my long post on the last thread about the photo world and the pretense that defines so much of it, the egos, the arrogance, the obnoxiousness, the cat/cattle fighting and so much of the proclamations that get shoved down upon the meek from those in the know…but i believe in a very very simple mandate:

    make good/challenging/passionate work and speak your mind and ABOVE ALL ELSE: be a good and loving and kind person. And if the photo world wants to ditch me (or anyone else for that matter) for what i write here or at LS, let them. I see so many “professionals” act like prima donnas, cowards and really frightful people and my only care in the world is to act well and good and helpful. So, i dont think that being honest will ever “hurt” you. Besides, one of the things that i RESPECT (god, now im like my brother Panos with the capital letters) about David is that he writes what he feels and lets his work and his generosity do the rest…

    for in the end: what the hell are we doing anyway, if not to try to live simply and honesty and to ruminate and reflect upon this life…for me behavior is more important and to respect photography means to respect the medium and those who harness their life to it, and that sometime means calling a spade a club ;)))…keep writing…:))))

    LISA: yes, sent u lots of metta…and i also sent David lots too…more on saturday…NOW, go get in touch with Tamara :)))..she’s got a show coming up…

    SIDNEY :))))

    SEE, i love when you rift long! :)))…no need to hide :)))))..and i was gonna step into the question of the Asian too (you know already what asia did to me: bifurcated my soul, my life, since i lived in asia as a child, thought i was an asian kid when i returned to the us and have struggled between the 2 worlds ever since (that’s why there are always so many asian faces in my projects, which you’ll see again n Bones)…and guess what”: Marina and I want to do a project on central Asia (marrying Russia + Asia)…so…anyway, i’d love to add to your insightful and eloquent thoughts, but that will have to wait…it’s your stage spotlight now ;))))…keep them coming :))) (by the way, i loved some of the photos in your last parade series, but i dont want to butt in between the terrific conversation between you and David ) :)))

    ok, gotta split gotta split…

    y’all have fun…


  • right on, bob..
    the photographers i saw starting out as i retired from music life were all you say and more…
    i have a habit, (desire?), for over analysis.. call it a hobby.. it passes the time pleasantly enough.

  • David Carretero

    Oh yes, I know his work. Some of them just classic!
    I feel it… I think I will work at north stuff soon.

    peace (world peace)

  • to add – i did not think this place would help or hinder my career when i began to post.. i just saw it as a bar with low lighting, smoky atmosphere and with fusion jazz belting over the mumbling crowds..

  • SIDNEY – No’s 6 , 8 , 9 and 10 but cropped , I hope you shot RAW Uncle!
    In those pics I see Loosey Goosey , I can see it in you, fluid , daring , darting , dancing , ditch the tele dude!
    Just had a real revelation today myself – I’d worked myself up into a lather over this job I’m on at the moment before I started shooting – someway while flying over Blue Mud Bay I had a severe case of the fuckits and figured In the Immortal words of Sgt Elias ( Platoon )
    “You’re humping too much stuff Troop!”
    Got a bit looser , got less concerned about bringing out the shadow details while shooting countrymen under a high midday sun and more concerned about moving , fluidity and trust that “I will get a picture!”
    It will come!
    Jus gotta move to make it right , no angled light to work with just colour and movement.
    It’s no shamejob to be straight!

  • DAVID B.
    Thanks for your comments! In fact, there’s two ‘companies’ in my presentation. But they are not professionnal companies, even if the show is very good, they’re local youth associations, with no real artistic or professionnal status, and of course, many young people i don’t know, so hard to get their confidence…and of course, it may lead to ‘burn bridges’…next time i’ll try to find a solution.

    I’m a bit sad i can’t use the pictures, as you said, it’s a shame…
    But i’m going to put on my site a dance solo and another event from both professionnals companies, so in this case, there’s no problem of authorization.

    I often look your site and DECADE. Before being more interested in theatre and dance, i used to like concert photography (only little events in pub, not big things like you!), and it’s why i like your project.

    I like your photos of the electronic party, it looks like we are there, and feel the ambiance, very ‘close’ photography, i like it.
    (but please forgive me, two stupid questions:
    1. don’t you consider photographying this way is ‘cheating’ in a certain way, as people don’t know what you do?
    2. did you plan to use this photos, or it was just personnal – because it may be hard to have people authorization if they don’t know you shoot them…)
    I like this kind of shooting, so i’m interested in your answers, don’t believe i want to judge your work…

  • jean

    who is it thats saying you cannot show the photos? it is a great shame to leave us dreaming about the great shots in your metaphorical shoe-box..
    if it is an ethical voice in your head which desires the permission of the subjects, then i would argue that you are doing the subject a great service by showing their grace and talent.. thats something to be proud of and show.. the ones you do not know may even get in touch and thank you for showing them what they do in a very new light..

    if it is the companies directors who are reluctant to allow use then that may be different.. and i would appeal to their better nature that to illustrate the art that they do is your art and the two need to work complimentary – you are nto taking advantage of anyone here, (like some could say i have done with decade), you are illustrating beauty and grace..

    a student yesterday told be he hit a brick wall – photographing a sheeps life from the green fields to the dinner plate.
    the slaughter house policy is no press – no photos.. no exceptions.
    so.. he telephoned them again and appealed.. he is going to show the sheeps life is good.. looked after.. free.. the killing is humane.. the food produced is excellent.. it’s all positive.. and so the slaughter house made the exception.

    do you think there might be room for exerting your position in a friendly mannor which may allow permissions without burning the proverbial bridges?

    thanks for the kind words on my work.. big events, small events.. free events.. and pubs.. the photos do not care where they were taken :o)

    this one is from my ‘local’ back in nottingham, back in the days when smoking and drinking indoors were permitted..
    for you…


    i should make a quick clarification on what i’ve just written above (and 2 days ago and other times) about Editors, other photographers. It goes without saying that i respect Editors, because as i just chatted with someone yesterday about, i see Photographers-Editors as being symbiotic: neither can live without the other. I actually see editors (this is also true in writing, believe me) as part of the “team” to produce great work. A good photographer-editor team (just as a great writer-editor team) can produce magic. Marina and I often work like this, bouncing our work and our editorial eye for eachother (in both writing and photography). More importantly, i know a few editors personally who i respect profoundly. In fact, one of the smartest and kindest and most insightful persons in the biz is a woman who works here inToronto (used to work for Magnum) who is the PicEditor of a major mag in Canada. she’s a personal friend and I respect her immensely. she not only understand, gets and knows more about photography (including the history) than 90% of the photographers i know, but she’s got no ego, and she’s been a major playa in London and NY and now here in sleepy toronto. I’d love to publish for her but know my work (writing and photo) cant make it for her readership but she’s got an eye and mind to slay dragons and she’s fucking nice and genuine as all hell. If i ever put together a photo book, besides Marina and David, she’s another im gonna call in to help me. The same seems true with Gina Martin here and other editors i know. But, i’ve met so many who just are high as a frickin’ kite. funny, ’cause marina and i also know personally the PE at NewYorker. We knew her when she’d just left school in TO. She’s also a wonderful wonderful person…but NY can change people too…all that thin-aired oxygen. I also have met and befriend so many wonderful wonderful photographers (famed and unknown) who really kept my heart afloat, same with other folks like Agency directors excetera. So, please dont think im down on this professional: the opposite. Photography and writing are part of my daily oxygen, but the more your travel, meet, the more swampy shit you gotta get through to see smell the swee-thin stab of fresh lake air…above all, what joins me to people aint at all about what they do, their status, even their work, but who they kettle themselves as, about how they live and join their life, their spirit and their generosity of caring…great photographers, editors, publishers are a frickin dime a dozen…the kind and selfless and generous human being….well…that joy cannot be made comparable, not matter the other awards or accolades or worshippers….

    in the end, each of us must face, alone, our own lives lived and no matter of countenance from others is gonna shape or shift that no how…earlier this year, i’d spoken up for a friend and a colleague, someone whom I respect and admire as a photographer and a person who i like cause they’d been treated poorly by the big leagues and most of the photo world who knew what was playing out stood silently from fear to piss off people, including people who are extraordinary photogs and compassionate, well-minded folk…later, folk talked that that photographer and i were simply “seeking fame” for speaking up and out in defense of a point…how little people understand why we do things, and how unimportant it is to seek understanding or approval, especially from those who already measure how they live by the yardstick of standards that often seen corrupted…

    in the end, we’re all from the same loam and muck…the same, and we return, every one of us, to the same place in the end…and we are united to all that because of that…and being outspoken or famous or unknown in the end matters very little…and doesnt change the swerve of any of that…

    my son asks me a simple question:

    how was your day….

    aint noone gonna be able to pitch that tent to answer that but me and the enacting to make a life that answers him in a way that i hope will make him feel calm is all i give a fuck about…

    really, nothing more…

    the rise and fall

    As a mother, at the risk of her life,
    Watches over her only child,
    Let him cherish an unbounded mind
    For all living beings.
    Let him have love for the whole world,
    And develop an unbounded mind,
    Above, below and all around,
    Boundless heart of goodwill, free of hatred,
    Standing, walking, sitting or lying down,
    So long as he be awake,
    Let him cherish this thought,
    This is called divine abiding here.

    Karaniyametta Sutta


  • FOR ALL THE OPEN HEARTS in this zoo..

    ‘See in through both sides
    Wants more to life
    Know your limits boy
    Once more too high
    Complicate your words
    Clever talk won’t impress me
    Suffocate your thoughts
    Empty my head
    Fill this full of light
    And open up.’

    martin grech was 19 when he wrote this..

    on and on.

  • SIDNEY….

    either i did not know, or i had forgotten, your connection with Japan…for sure, i did not know you lived there for 20 years…this must have changed you forever…

    i never lived there, but worked many months in Japan on long term most in-depth Japanese experience however happened in Virginia…my room mate in college was a Japanese man, Masaaki Okada (he did the layout for my first little book Tell It Like It Is)..because of him i “survived” college..

    your assessment of the differences between the Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Chinese seems about right to me having worked in all four countries , but we were, are, and always will be Westerners and i think the first thing i “learned” about any of the Eastern cultures was that there was no way i would ever or could ever or should ever totally UNDERSTAND the complexities of these multi-layered sophisticated cultures….

    the element of pure SURVIVAL built in to the histories of these cultures alone would naturally necessitate an element of “do not reveal all”….

    not in the least frustrated by this, i grew to accept and appreciate whatever was given to me and not to expect a Western response or action from anyone…as a Westerner i am so so in debt to much of Eastern philosophy and culture…

    absolutely nothing has helped me more in dealing with people overall than what i absorbed from my experiences in the East…it turned me into an East/West hybrid i suppose…i do not forsake my deep rooted Western heritage, but the Eastern “modifications” have been personally enriching to say the least…

    i am not a scholar in any way, but forever an eager student, and have found it so life enhancing to borrow bits and pieces of Eastern revelations and allow them to FLOW into my Western tableau….


    i think photographers overall are a bit or perhaps more than a bit neurotic/idiosyncratic , but totally “sane” from a psychiatric standpoint…

    they tend get it all OUT, as do you in your photographs and writing….

    my point is: do not leave the blog!! it may be your very best THERAPY…..i am almost certain (but not expert positive) that a good “shrink” would read all of our comments and pretty much endorse us all sitting around in this big internet circle….

    one of my ex-interns is studying “phototherapy” in Italy….yes, a fairly new branch of psychiatry…i will have her give us an in-depth report on what in the hell is “wrong” with all of us!!!

    in the meantime, let’s go shoot…we all know that WORKS!!!


    you may have noticed that Anna B. is not writing this week..this is not a mandate from me,but she literally has no time to write…the girl is working…i offered her my desktop to write yesterday….she declined, saying she would write AFTER her experience this week…i might have made her a little “crazy” (er, i mean neurotic), but i think you will appreciate the “results” when you soon will see…

    cheers, hugs, david

  • i see it bob.. there are editors and editors.. people and people.. photographers and photographers..

    i lost respect for the editors of the mag i longest mag i contributed for when i got my head around the fact they do know even know the agencies.. snappers.. writers i respect.. never heard of them..

    and so.. return to photography.. think again.. move on.. find editors i respect.. as they’ll respect me all the more.
    most of my editors from the past were strangers.. people i never met..
    the next set of editors will be much more, i hope, wherever they are rigth now.

  • DAH

    it’s going to be an interesting study and i’d be fascinated by the results.. as i’m almost certain there must be traits which bind us together, which is strange in an industry all to consumed by competition.. or may be those feeling the competition do not get it?
    doing our own thing has to be paramount.. and while doing that there IS no competition.

    sanity.. well…. with everyone i’ve had my ‘moments’.. and no harm done to others..

    *story deleted here*

    after too long looking at other people it has to have side effects.. is everyone looking at me? how would i ‘photograph’ within my own life – because i often catch myself in a photographic situation and wonder.. what would someone see in me?

    madness – the outside world.. the inner world is quite calm.

  • my thinking and my typing are often at odds.. and i miss or repeat words.. there is sense there if you ignore my written failings..

    apologies :o)

  • DAVID BOWEN :)))

    LOVE THE DESK! :))))…wish i had a digital camera (maybe i’ll borrow dima’s tonight) to snap some pics of my desk at school (littered with papers and photobooks and english books and gifts from students) and our desk at home (ditto the books, litter, photos, etc) :))))

    DAH ;)))))))

    this blog IS MY THERAPY!!!!! :)))))…and of course, the meditation…

    gotta run y;’all


  • ALL
    oops, missed a lot again.
    I have the impression the conversation just swapped over from the last post to this one, so I will leave my reply here…
    Hope to catch up with yall, as I am going to disappear for another assignment. Kind of frustrating, not to be discussing “on time” here …

    I am just catching up (last day to do so, from tomorrow on I will be working on an hectic assignment again and off for a week).
    “66 ways to survive in Venice”
    Have not yet read what the others said about it, but … not only do I feel I am really getting to know your place, Panos, I think your photos are really taking me there on a very special way.
    At the beginning I saw your photos and I thought, “yeah, that is Panos, and … yeah, THAT is Panos, too” There were always some really special ones and some not so good ones (my personal oppinion), And now the more often you post and I have a look, I feel that the gap is really diminishing. And you are posting more and more really good ones while not loosing the grip, they have on me. They have something special that I cannot grasp. I have the feeling I am there and looking through your eyes, rather than looking at a photo. That is quite unusual, i find. Maybe it has also to do with the slight off composition, you manage to do sometimes. Because when things are toooo perfectly composed, I often feel this detachment. Now I feel life. Whatever you are doing there, just go on doing it. You are improving so fast, I think from all here you are the one improving the fastest.
    And, as someone pointed it out, you seem to constantly take pictures! Like Araki.
    I find that great! One just feels your passion. You can take angry pictures and happy pictures … now just make them GOOD angry pictures and GOOD happy pictures. Maybe you just have to take some out, and that would be it?
    On the other hand side … the mixture is YOU too… So… just forget what I said above. I think I am lost here … lost in Venice :) Lost in your world …
    You see what you do?!?!

  • DAH said:
    “walking the fine line of doing your “own thing” and still paying the bills is one of the main things this forum is all all about….”

    yeah… Maybe I should start designing postcards to finance the postcard-project?!

    B&W / COLOR
    I make it dependant from the pictures / motives / stories. Sometimes b/w feels necessary and sometimes color.

    still waiting for my Giacomelli … :(((((
    You are one lucky guy…

    I see how “new” I am on the subject, when it comes to give critique. (See Panos above). The means to put specific things into words just have to grow first. Very often I do get a certain feeling for something .. but how to formulate it without making it something different? And very often, when I wait, someone else comes up with the senteces I was looking for. So for me this is a kind of education too. It was nowhere better to be noticed than on DAH’s workshop. And I have to think over and over about how powerfull words are!!! You may have an idea, a gordious idea, but until you find a means to formulate it in words, it is not THERE.
    You see it also in the Title-issue. It has been said her more than once that a good title is so important. Once you have the pictures a good title becomes the most important. And sometimes it is a crisp title that makes you focus for making good pictures. So … sad as it is, as I am not a word-genius at all, words are tremendously important even here.
    And I tend to be a little careful before insinuating something in a critique that I did not want to say.

    On the other hand side. What intriges me so much and makes me think about if I should not get more involved into photography is:
    while painting I would always say “oh, I am doing that for myself and I do not even CARE to have feedback.” I never cared to show my stuff. People would pass by to see things – especially after an exhibition took place – and I would offer them tea and … talk … but I would not show anything unless I had a very, very good day.
    Now … with photos, it is very different. And it is not just eagerness to show (which I can resist quite well at the moment, so I do not have to show old stuff), but it is a hunger for criticism! Good, bad, whatever … just gimme something to chew!
    I wonder about this. But I am happy about it too. For some reason.

    good to have a direct connection now.
    Although Panos did a fantastic job.

    I missed the link to your work. Is it about the pictures on your lightstalker-gallery “IDP (Internally Displaced Person) camps in Dili, Timor Leste”?
    But they are not numbered…

  • JamesC
    Have I already wished you well? I do!!
    Happy birthday!!! :)))))

    yes, I saw that the deadline was terribly close.
    I will write you an email as soon as I have time to built clear sentences in my head again. :)
    BTW, sorry if I forgot to add the address on the project-description. I did not want to complicate things by adding redundant information, but in this case it is more than important. Thank you for pointing it out. I added it now.
    (i am still kind of fighting with the website, it is sometimes too complex for what I want… but then again … I want to fit too many things in there) Still not focussed enough.

    As to when I will photograph Marina and you?! :) Well I have to get your “application” first. Then I will have to consider strongly if we really still are strangers :))

    No, seriously. I wanted to come to NYC next year for SOMETHING. Maybe to apply for a loft workshop of David’s with David Bowen and Gianluca. I have a couple of projects on my mind, that I would like to do … I do not know yet what. Sometimes my projects get too complicated and too big. I had a wonderful idea yesterday, and Tony’s eyes grew like tennisballs when I told him. But yet again it is something, that would have to be done internationally (starting in the US). And it would take years to finish … It is my speciality to have these kind of concept-ideas, unfortunately.

    So NYC sometimes next year for sure. It depends a little on the financial side too.

    As Ana pointed out already, I have to find out how “the hell” I am going to finance this. I am just right now booking a flight to Helsinki. At the moment I am trying to do one trip a month. So it will take some time until I have amounted what I have to amount to have a good start. And after I have a more or less serious body of work around “Wishes …” I will slow down.
    What I did not tell yet is that I want to do an alternative of this project in with Soldiers … I need something to show to ISAF and the ministery so I get a chance to do this. Will not be easy.

    Took the chance in Perpignan to get in contact with photographers working in Afghanistan, too. We will see. But first things first. And that will be “Wishes …” That is why I am pushing it. Even though the financing of it is quite tough for me.

  • GINA,
    yeah! See you here in dear old Frankfurt.
    I just got an assignment in for exactly that week. A tough one. But I am positive we can meet a night… It is just that I probably will not be visiting the book fair more than half a day this time … :( Very unfortunate. But I cannot afford to not take on the assignments as they come this year.

    my coffee mashine broke … Can you imagine the catastrophy?! … I am currently trying to brew it like we did it in Brazil: took the coffee mashine apart and stuck the top part on a jar. Putting boiling water in there manually now. But it just tastes horrible …

    ferries etc … THAT sounds very, very good! But I will need some more time to do that. At the moment I am just planning 4-6 day trips. And then I have to hurry back home to work.
    And winter is coming up… I am terrible in the cold. I am the first person in Germany, no … I am the very first person in Europe to get a red nose when temperatures drop. I am completely unfit for cold weather, no matter how many jackets I put on, I just freeze. Maybe it will get better now that I will have to get out with the dog 4 times a day. I hope.
    I will check my travel schedule and consult you outside of this blog, ok?
    Gosh, I am really looking forward to meet you and your (then) little family!!
    Enjoyed over 6hours of BBC4 yesterday… And will watch it all over now. It is perfect for me while working. Thanks again!

  • JEAN
    thank you about your feedback on “Meaning” … Although I have no pictures to show yet. It is a tricky thing, you probably can imagine it. Next week I will be sending out the first letters for it. Will take a long time to do. But as it goes chapter-wise it should not matter.

    I wanted to ask the same as David: why always from the back?

    Cheers to Diego! He is doing a workshop, is he not? I’ll never forget your hourly “where the hell is Diego?” :)))
    Would be great to join in the party … unfortunateyl … I still did not get my new passport. They would not let me in this way … That is really the only reason why Tony, Hunter and I will not show up. :))
    But thanks for the convite.

    A year off for editing, reflecting, making a family :)
    And you are so righ about the time… Editing takes so long! I still have a couple of thousand of pictures to edit for a shooting I did last year! It was for a friend, an architect, and as it is not paid we agreed on me doing it “whenever I have time”… Big mistake. I think there will never be time for it. I guess I’ll have to do it over christmas.
    Did not quite get this:
    “to complete the study i need to photo in detroit – home of house – and the far east.. smaller non-commercial events which magazines and tourist boards would not fund.”

    Sounds like a good combination you have found. Are you just covering the musik events or are you adding photos that describe the overall situation “around” the music?

    You are moving to Bergen? Oops, when next year? Spring? I’d love to combine it. Have some friends in Sweden etc. but… Have to organize that a bit better. Should not be holiday… :)) It will be necessary to get a bit of work done. Projects are piling up. I hate to have too much going on at the same time, I get afraid not to manage to finish things. Psycho stuff. :))

    Teaching is good. You cannot, as in the US, just start teaching in an university here… But things are starting to loosen up a bit. Thanks to Brussels. :) I taught CAD some years ago at Fraunhofer Institute. Was quite fun, but … difficult to organize. To be able to teach photography, or to do workshops around it … Great thing!!!

    while we chat around here, you are doing the action. Good luck at the festival!!

    “But, in a lot of the pictures I take, I know that ‘something’ is missing… emotional content, fluidity, ‘ephemerality’, impressionism, delicacy of mood, kinetic energy. Or all of the above.”

    hmmm… Sometimes I think you are only a little shy when it comes to taking aphoto. Maybe you do not want to get in the way or disturb or … Very often I personally think you should have gotten much closer to your subject. To really capture it. AND wait for the right espression on the face! For a specific look.
    How many pictures do you take from a subject before moving away? 1-3? Maybe you should go for 20-30! And then pic out the most intensive one. You should have seen DAH doing it. I am sure it would give you an AHA-Effect!!!
    Sidney, from all I have witnessed here in the blog, your main “problem” in doing street photography or the like would be your politeness… Be bolder!! Stop thinking!!!
    My personal opinion, of course.
    Just reading Patricia’s comment with the lap-photos. :))) Very good idea!!!
    Maybe you should have 3 beers before the next shooting session :))

    Hervé’s last comment … I think that is what I meant … only he puts it in better words.
    Stop thinking and get close :))

  • BOB, DAVID B…..

    let’s go Eastern for just a moment…about editors that is…look at it from THEIR SIDE…

    most are caught “between a rock and a hard place”….actually loving photographers and photographs, but having to play so many different sides just to get through the day…

    almost every picture editor i know, including the ones at the very top, at one time in their life DREAMED seriously of being a photographer…

    to be “out there” with the wind and the rain in their face as are you….

    all of them that i know, at some point realized their strength was “inside” instead of “outside”..PUT DOWN THEIR CAMERAS…felt they could do more for photography working the “system” rather than being a “shooter”…

    so, they sit at a desk and i would imagine still remember their original passions….they see YOU actually “doing it”…living their original dream…

    don’t you think it is just a little hard for them sometimes to see a story that THEY have worked so hard on to see only the name of the photographer in print?? to see only all of the accolades going to the photographer they so once dreamed of being??

    editors are no different than any of the people we photograph…we cut the people we photograph a lot of slack because we are “getting our picture”….

    listen, i have been just as “burned” by some editors as anyone out there…but, by looking at the big picture and by walking a “mile in their shoes” you may find that you should not “take it personally”….

    you should see yourself as the “lucky one” in the equation…not powerless… you are in fact EMPOWERED…

    see things from their point of view and you may find they start seeing things from your point of view…

    cheers, david

    Now playing: Muddy Waters – Rollin’ And Tumblin’, Part 1
    via FoxyTunes

  • DAH :))

    TOTALLY understand the plight of PE’s completely (that’s why i just wrote the 2nd note about my respect for them and their position). I don’t envy their position for a moment at all and totally know must ARE or DREAM or DREAMEd about being a photog…and so, yes, i know my diatribe seemed harsh…like i said, i have good and close relationships with some here in town (who are think are great PE’s and Great people! :)) )..

    my lamentation has been that (mayb’e i’ve had poor luck too, or rather limited luck) many i’ve met often have “talked” to me like I was nobody…that’s just been my experience David…with that in mind, i thoroughly welcome to get beat up at fiesta harvey on October 3rd by all the PE;s who want to show me that photographers are the real arrogant ones ;))))))))))….

    PE”s are always in the position of rock and hard wall (photographers on one side, the story idea (which IS OFTEN THE EDITOR’S IDEA and the photog gets all the credit) and the publisher/readership/advertisers/sales on the other): i know the calculus totally SUCKS big time :)))

    in the end for me, it’s only about the person, not the name or the job…that in mind, i just repeat: one of the smartest persons in the biz i know is a PE and her story ideas are also more brilliant that the photogs she hires…

    i hope my second rant above was more understanding :)))))…

    LASSAL: :)))

    write when you can and i’ll send u a post-card…and yes, we’re still strangers ;)))…(i am not as mean about PE”s in person and much more mellow in real life ;)) )…

    hugs y’all

  • DAH & ALL:

    oNE last bit about Pe’s and work. I try and think that IS VERY IMPORTANT that professionalism and respect be the working mantra for everyone! Just as with EFP and Look3 last year, i have always tried to be good for my projects: get them done on time with little trouble or worry. just as with EFP and Look3, i try to get you work on time, without you or Michael doing any worry….just as i think what a PE respects above all is not ARROGANCE or Artistic attitude, but a good work ethic: do the work well, on time and be respectful.

    that is how i have always behaved…and what i admire when i get treated like that by others…

    it doesnt always work that way ;))


  • Lassal

    I am not suprised your coffee mashine is broke…10 litres of coffee… and probably breakfast only… :)

    I had too much coffee last time.


    “to be “out there” with the wind and the rain in their face as are you….”
    hmmmmmmm….. I dream about also.

    must run

    peace for all

  • ah ha – and i’m playing
    one bourben, one scotch and one beer’
    by john lee hooker..
    ‘i ain’t drunk – i’m just drinking’

    too much to write now.. just had a long chat with beate about it.. editors.. the confidence game.. showing vulnerability on here and still wanting – conditioned – to hide it from the editors.. knowing where they come from .. it’s never taken personally from the editors and some of them are good photographers.. all credit to them and all they do.. especially those who do not use their powers for self inflation and ego.

    here is something.. my photo editors will not be suprised by ‘decade’ but the editor in chiefs will be.. showing the whole and unvarnished truth will not suit their cause with advertisers or readers.. thats why i need to change clients.
    i chatted with a writer colleague on this – now that i have retired from youth culture somewhat i can show what it’s really about.
    some of my work which i’ll show would prevent them from commissioning me again – because i want to be honest.
    i photograph for myself – the mag used 5 to 15 photos out of 300 to 600.. the photos i took for myself are ‘shoe-boxed’ for now.. until now.. seeing the light of day now.. and it will suprise my editor in chiefs..

    the next editors i want to work with will, i hope, be interested in the photos i take for myself rather than the few formulaic ones i take to sell the mag.. will see how that pans out as the wheels on this bus go round and round, round and round.. (ad nauseum)

    editors DO deserve credit and i always made sure to compliment when they did a good job.. cropping.. design.. a good cover.. and it is a shame that is the only credit they got for each piece.. but./. i planned the pieces mostly.. found the funding.. did the work.. put my landlord off the rent for this or that month.. they collected ‘idea’s’ and edited them into a whole.. and they did get their name printed high in the front of the magazine… and a fat, regular paycheck.

    david – divided soul thanks all – editors foremost – and thats perfect..


    yes.. it takes a long while.. a long long while.. and thought.
    this year having the time to ponder the more philosophical aspects.. not worrying about commissions.. funding.. rent.. marketing.. accounts.. it needed to be done..

    i’m in a cocoon and the walls of this little womb like room are pasted with memories – good and bad – while i sit and make sense from it.. from it all.. editors.. events.. lost weekends and made friends.. before coming back grown.. and beginning again.. with a headstart and wings already attached.. i am convinced the best part of my life is just begining and the best work i can produce is in the near future… learning lots here.. between the lines there is as much to learn as with ‘i like 5, 10, 15 and 23’.. thats where the gems are, i think.

    beate just said
    ‘you have to be vulnerable on there – otherwise how will you grow?’

    yes.. quite.. anyway..

    ferries is one way of doing northern europe.. they are great.. to get to bergen from where i am is two long ferries.. fjords.. landslides.. fun.
    welcome anytime one and all.. spare bed waiting..

    teaching is just perfect.. the perfect way to break from shooting.. that or BEING AN EDITOR was what i hoped for :o)
    of course contact off-forum.. people do.. i like muchas..


    the desk.. digital..
    someone ‘gave ‘ me a canon 10d.. it’s shite.. no – it really is.. hard work to get exposures spot on.. but i love it for doodling..
    and my phone..
    someone gave me a nokia n73 yesterday – 3.2 million pixels pisses on the nikon D1x.. and a zeiss lens.. one of carls very own.. amazing.. learning it limitations today.. has it’s qualities though.. autofocus.. even exposure compensation.. amazing..

    must be off.. may have missed a comment.. if so apologies.. no time to read through all – will do later.
    time shift – you guys getting up and typing your hellos late in my day :o)

    big-up’s to all…

    black tea “diet” now … And Tony (english boyfriend) is grinning …

    Have a look at Iceland too.
    I am planning a shoot there next year. But I know the place a little already. Magical!!!

    Faroe Islands are making me curious now too. Was there not a huge music festival in summer? I remember everybody went there …

  • ALL…

    quick announcement: one of our bloggers just contributed $5000. to the Emerging Photograhers Fund…

    i will not say who now, because this generous person may want to remain anonymous, at least for the moment…this contribution will be added to the growing EPF funds contributed by individuals who BELIEVE in you and who will quite literally be helping you to finish a project….

    this would seem to me to be a pretty amazing development from a little imperfect photo blog…sure makes me proud of all of you…

    so much is happening………this place is “on fire” !!

    running to class…

    love you, david

  • Congratulation!
    Yes David, This place is “on Fire”!
    oh… I am curious who it is :)


  • Editors … Never had “it” from a photographic point, but working for years with them in illustrations. Similar thing, that is why I dare to compare now in the sentences to follow (please feel free to skip this…). Incredible similar, only that very often they have not been illustrators before. More the other way around: illustrators who had been creative directors, etc. before :)
    Up to now I thought it was very simple: they have a job = they have to deliver, and I am their problem solver. So for me to be an illustrator was always something extremely detached. I simply saw it as a service. Not an art. Thus I never experienced any problems with CDs, ADs or other kind of editors. I worked FOR them. I saw my job as to
    illustrate THEIR wishes (of course with my means) They came up to me because they liked the way I solved their problems … They liked the interpretations I gave to the thoughts they had (or not). Havin a lot of experience helps you find week spots and fill out the gaps for them. I know colleagues do not agree with me here, but I always found this to be part of my job, too. A very open thing. Cards on the table. I never liked to play games and I witnessed that they usually are glad not to have to.
    The magic? Not to see it as art.

    I could not really do this now with photography. Even without wanting to get into the art-discussion, I just have a different approach to my projects. To my PROJECTS! They have to be how I see them. Then again, I have a certain look&feel I like in photography and which I pursue. Something specific I want to have in. If any editor would like to have this look&feel for whatever assignment she/he has on the table, I would be glad to talk about it. BUT, I would NOT accept an assignment to copy photographers xyz. WHITHIN my look & feel I would be glad to experiment, as I love to experiment anyway. So here again I would play with open cards. And when it is an assignment, it is about the need of the editors or whoever they are working for. If I have a problem with these guys, then … I should not accept the assignment.

    hmmm… Maybe I put this into a wrong looking dress of words now. What I mean is, that I find it very clear what the deal is. So we should look into each others eyes on the same height. No games. No lies. I demand professionalism and I think they can demand that from me too. Apart from that I do not care how the person is. I do not have to be friends with them. I did BECOME friends with a lot of people I have been working with, but it is not necessary for me to like them. I just want a professional relationship as long as the job goes on.

    I guess I am not very romantic at this point. I prefer to be romantic on other occasions :)))

    Hope I did not miss the question.

  • Wow, good news DAH!!!
    You are doing a terrific job here!

    Whoever donated the money: thanks so much!! This gesture is a huge one for many of us, because it shows that you believe. And I think that is what most of us want to get across.
    Thank you!


    wow… good news…

    (did send you mail – did u receive?)

  • (Sorry to innundate the blog once in a while with all my comments…

    Looks terrible.

    But it is the only way I manage to keep it up at the moment: hickup-wise.)

  • lassal

    i think i get what you’re saying .. and you did not miss :o)

    editors are artists.. hey, by my definition of an artists my mate hamish the accountant is one.. and you put it well.. professionalism speaks loudest of all.

    regarding the DONATION
    that’s just fantastic news..

    i genuinely hope you get some of it back through an EPF grant or some such beautiful gesture.. complimentary *something-or-other* just for you as the world turns..
    beautiful.. distribution of wealth in action.. with thoughts.

    and so, more than ever, it seems that we’re feeding each other here.. without the more usual parading and posturing so common on other, lesser forums for discussion.

    one generous thought.. followed with action.. will be returned..
    doesn’t that just work much better than ‘the fear of god’ as a motivation for kindness?

    really impressed.. if not astonished i’m sure we’re all inspired by that action

  • and finally..
    one note on editors.. editors whos publications business model is based on people working for free..
    email just received…

    ”Hi all,

    The Antipodean monsters of rock are sweeping across the globe in a mass of wrinkles, sweat and razor sharp riffs.

    I beseech you good XXXXX writers to step forth and offer your services to divulge twelve unknown facts or legends about AC/DC for our new issue.

    We want the bizarre, the fantastic, the unbelievable…

    So, 12 facts that runs to around 800 words total (including intro), in to me by Thursday 25th September.

    Who’s up for it?


    XXXXX Magazine”

    really annoys the hell out of me.. and i’ve asked to be taken off the mailing list before.. every week there is someone, wanting something for nothing.. and every time someone helps them it spoils that client for the rest of us..

    A JOB IS A JOB > > pay


    yeah …. :(

    You will always have this. And you will always have someone responding positively to it. As long as it is not a matter of quality (and sadly that is often the case) you will find this kind of “jobs”.

    It is a matter of education, too. On both sides.

    If in university they would teach the young ones to do their math correctly, you would find less people responding to it. At least here in Germany universities and academies are too often with their heads way too much up in the clouds to deal with these kind of issues, to prepare the students for what will happen after the cheerful times of “no worries”. I had huge disputes with my decan about this while I was studying. The answer was always “but the poor students have to learn so much stuff already” …

    The only other thing one personally can do about it is to find an own way, a unique language and to be so good in it, that they want YOU and not just anybody.
    The good thing about this approach is, that YOU are in charge of the solution. Because waiting for the system or others to change is just a big waste of time. :))

  • that’s very true lassal..

    there is a misguided idea that in order to ‘start out’ you have to serve clients needs for free.. and i don’t hold with that.

    of course we all work without payment.. thats our thing.. and if working without payment then more reason to do what we want and not serve someone else.. because i bet come the weekend.. this editor will be spending his profit.. stuffing it up his nose.. on the back of hard work by others.

  • Hi All :)
    Congratulations to David on the EPF funding and thank you to the donor for supporting this growing DAH blogosphere..
    A hypothetical this morning:
    If you were approached with the possibility of two photo assignments – one in your own country/region, and one in some far-flung location across the globe; both are equally hard-hitting and important; funding isn’t a consideration due to, on-topic, the awarding of a stipend to fund whichever project you chose.. Which one would you pick?
    Would you head out across the globe and hope to make the one closer to home a personal project later?
    Or throwing in the ‘starving child’ factor: Does one project take precedence over the other, either because it is close to home and should ‘matter more’.. or because the other might be in a poorer country and you feel your photos could add ‘exposure’ to a topic?
    Just wondering what others think.

  • Yeah, you are right, David, we are working for free for OUR projects. Which we then maybe sell … as our projects. And then we should know the costs.

    This is what I meant now is the difference for me between what i did before and what I am doing now. I never did my own project in illustration. It was only just assignment. And I know exactly what I am worth there, and I know exactly how long I need for a job.

    I also do my math for my projects now. Like for the postcard projects … Because it is like doing an assignment for myself. I am a little crazy about numbers, I admit, I have the costs on paper. Without the hours and hours of thinking about it, though :)

    For me this is a question of getting a feeling for it (which I do not have yet). How long do I take for this or that? I am someone who likes to know it to be able to plan under tight circumstances. Of course you cannot plan everything, but I like to know my parameters as well as possible.

    So yeah, I am working for free for me, but I know my investments :)


    for me it would really depend on the VERY specific projects. Cannot answer this in general.


  • hey alicia.

    i think i’d go with the one which suited my previous collection better.. keep the theme running.. i would not care where it was.. travel is work in itself.. and personal projects can easily span the globe..
    knwing myself i’d probably try to fit in both..

    with the starving child factor.. i think people offer to people known for what they do.. within that remit i have always tried to help those who most need it – and in many, many more ways than just photography.. i doubt anyone would send me to photo starving children based on past work.

    good idea to ask.. what would it be for you?
    also – got a link for your work?

  • yeah … if both projects would be equally important etc.etc.etc. I would go as David did and take the one I could best integrate into my work.

  • lassal.

    there may always be a way of gaining ‘hired eye’ work while you do your project.. in flight magazines.. tourist boards.. there are opportunities to get travels funded.. it can work out..

    i’m being pulled into a routine now for the first time..

    the first commission abroad i was offered was with 4 hours notice to get on the train to the airport.. frankfurt, actually.. for ‘nature one’.. and since then i’ve bearly known what day it was.. (yeps.. i have missed a number of planes.. mostly from barcelona, funnily enough :o)… until now..
    with clean blood and routine i’m really getting to grips with life, love and everything.

    for electronic music i decided early on that this would be a 10 year project.. i’m way over that in terms of first photoed party, (3 floors of my own house.. wreaked..) and last..
    without any responsibility it was easy to focus..


    “‘hired eye’ work”? What does that mean?

  • Sounds like a very special kind of life… :)
    They flew me in a couple of times to work with directors in Hamburg, but that was it, actually. I never liked it too much because I did not need to be there – it was more this “being important” show kind of thing. But that never really impresses me much.
    I usually sneak away after the briefing and jump into the train back in the middle of the night, to be able to work in peace and without getting high from all the joints that “lay in the air”. :)
    If I stay around too long I cannot draw anymore… :))) But maybe I could take pictures?! :))

    Jokes aside, I will have to check possible fundings for these travels that are coming up. It is just a completely new world and I do not quite “see” things yet. Will have to do some research.

    BTW, just got postcards from Slovenia :))))!

    Hugs, yall!

  • Signing off now for at least one week! Maybe two.

    Good light for all of you,

  • photographing anything.. hiring out your eyes.. commercial work..

    tourist boards want journo’s to visit their country and pitch to magazines..

    last year i wanted to go to croatia again..i asked the croatian tourist board to fund my trip.. (they have budget for 60 journalist trips from each european country, each year..)

    i pitched a festival to magazines.. gained guaranteed coverage.. – 2 pages – of editorial.
    now.. one page of a magazine might earn 1500usd in advertising.. so for the tourist board to fly me over to do an editorial piece it was cheaper than them buying advertising.. and better to get editorial than advertising in any case..
    so i got there – do my two pages for a magazine – dj mag (15 000 readership).. for a basic fee (was 500usd).. then try for more press..
    the photos ended up in the times 450 000 readership) and guardian (same as times?) newspapers in the uk.. dj magazine and xlr8r.. i-dj.. printz in germany..

    the tourist board is then happy.. over a million people seeing ‘nice’ photos of croatia as a destination, not an ex-warzone (although the national parks are not entirely cleared and tourists have been killed).

    i am then happy – a couple of weeks away and able to budget for a little trip into serbia to cover another event.. ++ money..

    other magazines are happy.. they have a new photographer who works hard to take the stress of of them and supplies new and fresh topics.
    i’m also happy because out of that trip i earn’t about 2000usd (after more than a year of selling the stock)..

    all i really know is how i did it.. but there are ways..
    lets think.. i am a bit ‘off the boil’ for that right now.. not done it for 7 or 8 months.. i used to use websites to research travel boards needs..
    here is one..

    tourist boards post via them when they are looking for specific coverage.. in any case – most tourist boards will listen to you if you have ‘guarenteed press’ for them in a national or international publication.. then what i did was satisfy the tourist boards and fill in their requirements for giving funding, and then do my own thing once that was out of the way.

    it works..
    it’s a lot of work.
    these days i’d much rather teach and ‘pay my own way’, as and when it’s affordable.

  • Lassal —
    I agree/can see that. It was a generalized question.
    Being a little more specific, I was approached the other day about a project in Vietnam. The woman I was speaking with is an avid volunteer, but said some have asked why she finds more meaning in the work she does in Vietnam than in the projects she works on stateside. She said that while she agrees there are so many projects she can work on here, in Vietnam she feels her work/money/efforts more directly benefit people there who don’t have as many opportunities to help themselves because of the govt.
    Thus my photo-based question.
    And David B. —
    I can see your point as well. I suppose for me, if either project had strong meaning and value, I would jump at the opportunity, regardless of how completely it fit into previous works.. and possibly try to do both if I could.. However, I have had editors comment that some of my photos feel too ‘global’ and not ‘local’ enough (having shot in places like Scotland — liked your link — Italy, and at a Hare Krishna community, albeit in New Vrindaban, W. Va).
    I will share a link to photos soon. I tend to agree with whoever mentioned that sometimes their photos feel more ‘normal’ than the photos of some posting.. but I am working on a better way to share some of mine.
    Running to work.
    Will rejoin the blog discussion later.

  • Wow …

    thanks for the explanations David, and for the link. Especially for the last sentence, that puts it all in relation.

    Have to think about this. Will think about this next week while on assignment.

    Thanks again!!!

  • /\ if you do the above for a couple of magazines, a couple of times – they will then think of you when they have a ready prepared ‘press junket’ trip.. an easy job.. and the ball is rolling..
    it’s getting off the ball without falling that then becomes difficult.. again.. that can be done too :o)

  • DAVID (DAH):

    WOW!…:)))…A very Big Heart-Hug (and lots of metta) to whoever donated to David’s fund! Your generosity is EXACTLY the type of action that is the MOST IMPORTANT and not because of the money (the cash or the amount) but because it shows a genuine concern to help others. I wish i knew you to just tell you how important that is as a gesture. As i’ve told David so many times, someday when im rich and famous ;)), i’ll support everyone!…so will do so in thought :))))…but your generosity is extraordinary and i know it will come back to you in a blessed form, whoever you are


    over a year ago, when David was overwhelmed with the EPF and all the fighting and some of the bad blood, i wrote him a long and passionate private letter of support just to remind him NOT to give up or give in to the demands or the frustration or the cynicism/bitterness because what David began and what ALL OF YOU continue to do was UNIQUE and emergent and important. No other blog/community (including LS, which i love and am devoted to) has done what David’s Road Trip has accomplished:

    1) real friendships and relationships
    2) real work, real education, real value
    3) produce funding for itself and to draw the attention to others and to build photographers and photography through good will and love and support rather than rancor and competition
    4) create (without the idea of sponsorship or competition) a real HOME where the full range of photographers, editors, writers, enthusiasts, pros, ams, lurkers, stalkers, lovers, warriors, whoever from around the globe could come, chat commune and HELP one another…

    I told David, in a moment of doubt, that what he had begun and what the blog had accomplished was truly revolutionary, because it was begun from the bottom up and PRODUCED good work and great community and bonds…David may never have expected how large and successful and overwhelming it would become (i hope he gets rest and returns to Family Road Trip soon :)) ), but this is really due to him…

    David is the captain and the spirit that guides and glues this home together. David made this possible, not because he’s a Magnum/Famous/Successful photographer but because he gives of himself tirelessly and eloquently and lovingly, even when he’s tired and pooped and grouchy ;))…it is that beacon of light that has drawn so many…last year, i told David that I believed in him and in his experiment and in the people of this blog and that i would do all i could (through writing, photography, love, metta, advice, support, whatever) to see it bloom…

    but this recent largess of donation will simply help the pull of the love and dedication that glues this madness together simply grow…that kind of generosity and donation is just the kind of example that love bequeaths love and that in the end, above all, the heart gathers more wealth than the bank account…

    for the anonymous donator and for David, i continue to pledge my love and effort (and stupid, long-winded posts) to make this special garden grow and harvest

    what blooms is never beset by shadow for the sight of light can never be vanquished…

    ya’ll are extraordinary folk and have enriched our lives immeasurably…


    p.s. David, wouldnt PJG be so proud of you old boy, so proud and grateful to you

  • Great news, DAVID! And so touching that somebody believes on us and the EPF…
    Personally right now I’m in the need to feel affection and care from the others so every single sign of interest makes me feel warm.

    Thank you, whoever this person is.



  • alicia

    ahh – i see..
    i’d go with my heart, wherever it lay.
    in Detroit i understand that there are many thousands of people living without water.. due to privatization and high costs..
    nachtwey photographed chain-gangs and that was shown in context with other countries.. ron haviv has a project on LA gangs over at the VII website right now..

    actually – beate was at her amnesty international meeting last night and came home to tell me they are focusing more and more on the u.s. (is that where you’re coming from?)

    social injustice is everywhere.. even here in norway.. and there is always lots to do everywhere.. sometimes it’s hardest to see it close to home..

    a trip to vietnam would be good, whatever the subject matter

    a colleague is just back from india on a ‘press-junket’ to highlight the work of a charity serving slum-dwellers.. all she now writes about is social injustice, home and abroad.. and i know that for her the destination was irrelevant.. actually – she’s an amazing journalist.. working hard to publicize the breakup and redevelopment of englands northern cities.. a terrible state of afffairs really.


    above – i’m talking about ciara leeming – who you kindly pointed towards DAM.. she is now in israel.. west bank.. and is going to a gig with DAM during the month she’s there..
    i posted their address a thread or two ago for you and assume you picked it up.. if not, just holla.

  • DAVID B.
    Thanks a lot for your long post. It gives me more confidence. You’re right: I’m writing a mail to the teacher of the company, and ‘wait and see’ ;-) thanks again

    Your photo is great ;-) i stopped smoking since 1 year, but cigarettes were really photogenic ;-)

    I understand that Meaning is a ‘tricky thing’. It sounds like THE PROJECT of your life, and of course, it can only be interesting. And make me wondering:’what is my project?’.
    The other thing that make me jealous :-) is when you say that you’ve seen the pictures in your mind, before everything, it’s like a sort of ‘light’? Lucky Lassal…good luck and never give up this (lifetime?) project.

    Thanks for looking my website. Maybe you haven’t seen my last posts, so the back photos were because of missing authorizations. You can see a largest editing there:
    then go to ‘Dancers #2’.

    Thank you very much for the help and confidence you have in this community and EPF.


  • ANA

    “Personally right now I’m in the need to feel affection and care from the others so every single sign of interest makes me feel warm.”

    everything ok with you?

    (I have to work now – feel free to mail me directly, ok?!)

    Please DO SO!!!

    A big hug,

  • and.. WHAT BOB SAID..
    competition and rancor? that must have been horrible.. thanks for keeping the faith..

    i’ve been a forum whore today.. going now.. washing up.. wet clothes to hang.. not a sniff of fishing for a week..
    tomorrow.. tomorrow.. they’ll bite, they will.

  • Gustavo Aragon Garcia



  • Hello David,
    Hi all,

    This is my first post and I think that it’s the perfect time for it, as I’d like to congratulate the generous contributor to the EPF. Great!

    After reading/hearing too much (?) about how the “photography world” is in a very tough place, it’s great to see that some out there still firmly believe that it’s about finding new paths, about “being out there”, about teaching and sharing views, about believing!

    Often as I read this forum and its interesting discussions (btw, waw!), I find myself in a pretty good mood, thanks to the positive, direct, funny and generous/friendly posts… No wonder generosity flows !

    Again, thanks.

    I’m in NYC now, so I’ll head out in the city!

    All the best,

  • ANA

    Dear one, I am enfolding you in a big warm hug right now
    Hope whatever is not feeling in balance will soon right itself so you can again take to the sky and soar…..


    Your generosity of spirit is evidence of what makes this community not virtual but real, so very REAL. Thank you for believing in us, in what David is doing here, in the responsibility each of us has to mentor and support our sisters and brothers who are spreading their creative wings but need a hand so they can rise above the gravitational pull of earth’s demands which often involve issues of $$.


    At this stage of my life, I am fortunate not to need additional funds to pursue my creative projects, so I ask that you not consider me for the Emerging Photographers Fund. There are so many here on the blog whose work deserves to be funded. I will celebrate where these funds will allow them to go, artistically, geographically and personally. Thank you for envisioning the EPF and for daring to make it a reality for two wonderful years…


  • Katharina, about “face” in Asia and wetern women, you ask why I experienced them more frustrated dealing with it. Not an opinion, just a supputation:

    Western women are a lot more independant than asian women vis-a-vis social dos and don’ts. They are extremely sensitive (so am I, but I’d feel it more personally if I was a woman) to the unfairness of women being discriminated and not having the direct outlets to express their grievances and effect change. Because of “face” (who you are, what you feel, want, etc… must kow-tow to how you behave, roles and facade are paramount, an ingrained notion).

    So, I suppute that experiencing “sisters” mired in ingrained, interiorized notions of facade and make-believe (the worse kind of victimization in feminist terms) on a daily basis may take its toll.

    Also the fact that western women will not behave so (something we western men do not have think about once, since we “dominate”), and may even act as if in the West, assertively (very bad behaviour), which in return closes doors, provoke misunderstandings, and breaks the good balance between ying and yang, the “good functionning of things”, ie. the ULTIMATE SIN! (until asians go beserk from too much facade and kill thousands and more of their own…Nobody’s perfect!)

    Just a thought.

  • quick thought

    I think winner of EPF is a woman, I have my choose but I’ll be quiet :)
    Women rule here!
    Sorry guys :)

    Panos you will say nothing this year? ha ha ha

    ok. peace for all and big hug for our big guy :)

  • Marcin,
    yeah im “hungry”…
    but i dont think im gonna “bite” this time..

    ( but dont forget… again its not about a “Winner”…
    its not about the prize..its not only one prize either…
    did you read ? another $5K just stepped in… so its a FLOW..
    its a continuity… its more like LENDING money to an artist..
    “timing-wise”… when the artist needs it most…
    but please see beyond money or PRIDE or inflated EGOS…
    Even if someone gets a fund today doesnt make that
    “someone” an “INSTANT” DAH, or an instant magnum photog…)
    Actually after the date you going to “receive” that stipend…
    that will be the day that YOUR real responsibilities BEGIN…
    towards us and the whole world of photography…
    so receiving a stipend it might actually turn your life into more work, more stress,
    […more money , more problems..]… as B.I.G, or Biggie
    once said…

    what can i say about your spirit…?
    you are making this blog very precious and important…!
    without you, We are Nothing…

    peace all
    ( & David B, i enjoy posts you lately . MUCHO INFO…..)

  • Marcin said:
    Panos you will say nothing this year? ha ha ha

    Well, good idea… let me say SOMETHING NOW… though
    BEFORE we have an actual name…ok?

    ok… you got the RESPECT , recognition and some dough…
    you playing with big dogs now… great…
    you got YOUR 15MINUTES OF FAME…
    great , again,…
    now, SHUT UP, take your camera and go shows us that your
    success wasnt an accident… you are not DAH, or KOUDELKA,
    sorry ,but not yet…
    so FUCK YOU… and prove to us that you REALLY REALLY
    WORTH IT … BITCH… ( we are watching you… ),
    but honestly, at least for now you got my respect also…
    Hats off… to YOU,
    So, Marcin, i dont want you to wait … ha ha…
    that is my speech for the WHOEVER stipend receiver…
    ( and again, i have a feeling that DAH will “reward”
    more than ONE person this time or this season…

    (…and again, what do i know )


    y’ALL saw this at A Photo Editor: Job Opening(s) for photographers…look read here…maybe this might be good for some of y’all:


  • ok, to spread the loving some more! :))0

    just read this at A Photo Editor: job opening for photograph(s), $45,000 + travel…maybe this will help someone here :)))



  • on competition and ‘prize’..

    i never entered a competition before the self portrait thing.. i think because every commission has felt like winning something.

    the hard work spent towards publishing of work and earning probably has better odds than a competition.

    i’ve no idea who will be favored and i’m happy for anyone to be helped..
    there’s more going on here than money..

    remember all – if you have a good idea you will find the money.. hoping too much on a grant needs something about eggs in one basket to be said..

    if you want it, then it will happen regardless.. if you really want it, work for it and are honest with yourself about that then no grant, agency, publication or time contraint will stop you – you’ll do it..

    cause one thing for certain – it’s never been cheaper to shoot and shoot and shoot and shoot.. … and on.


  • stipend.. the money is nothing.. if you want to do an idea the money will come.. no matter how poor you are now..

    the money is nothing.
    money is nothing..

    relationships.. relationship.. now that’s something.

  • PANOS!! LOL!!!

    Getting ready to go downtown and shoot right now, and YOUR post made me STOP and TALK….

    you know we will REMEMBER your speech for whoever the worthy recipients are…I am saving quotes from here just for that kind of time!

    but it’s ok I’ve lingered, the light will be getting better in a bit anyway….

    ciao all


    yes, you are right … it is not a prize…it is a flow….a continuum …..a series of stipends…i have not decided exactly how to divide up the funds so far…but, we have $20,000. in the fund right this minute , with more expected soonest…so we have many options…my inclination is to divide whatever we have around to several recipients…


    nice summary…many thanks for your support all this time…

    if we just support any amount of new work to be developed, then we will have done our bit…

    cheers, david


    Thank you so much for caring. I’m in a hard situation so I’m kind of sensitive now. Amazing what a big hug can do even in the distance, so many miles away. Will write you, thanks for being there :-)


    Gracias :-)


    “so you can again take to the sky and soar…..” I’ve got damp eyes reading that. And such a warm hug! I think I even could feel it! Thank youuuuuuuu sweet Patricia :-)

    Hugs and a smile


  • Lassal;
    Yes that is the gallery. I’ve just numbered them all, sorry about that!



    yes, this funding (we now have $20,000 total EPF with more expected soonest) will be spread around among several recipients…at least this is my inclination at the moment…


    great summary and thanks for your support all this time…if we can support any amount of new work, then we will have done our bit…

    cheers, david


    welcome…and please come by for the show tomorrow night…you will see some great work…

    cheers, david


    This will be quick as i am running…actually, im still editing Bones (i keep playing with it to try and make something special for y’all)…anyway, so, I am re-arranging pictures on the computer when Dima (my son) and his friend come up to me:

    “DAD, have you seen this” (its the the September 2005 edition of National Geographic: devoted to AFRICA)

    “I cant remember honey” (Marina looks and says: “yes, of course, you’ve seen it…dont you remember”…

    “Why sweethear” (i ask Dima)

    “Here Dad, look at this!”

    Dima opens the magazine (which he brought home today from his school’s library) to page (oh, i cant find the fucking page number), well some page before the Main story…opens the 2-page spread and what do i see:

    “Dad, look that’s David!”….

    David Alan Harvey sitting at a table with 3 other men at a Nairobi restaurant…just like (his face) Lassal’s mask…glasses on his head, beautiful face!…

    I think for a moment (how the hell does Dima know what David looks like)…well, he didnt, but he saw his name when he was looking at the magazine at school and brought it home to show me and Marina…(David: Dima loves u and your pics too)…

    so, ok, i forget, and i look through the magazine…

    1st picture i say: that’s fucking classic harvey picture: a gorgeous gorgeous photograph of a young woman dancing/dreaming..soft backgroun, blur, gorgeous dream light and her, like from a Rousseau painting, clear and unbreakable…fucking gorgeous woman, gorgeous photograph…fucking old man harvey knows what he’s doing…and then i look at David’s story…o, christ……for me, with Lynn Johnson’s story: the most gorgeous pictures in the magazines (and there are alot of brilliant pics in this magazine edition, including another amazing/brilliant picture by Nicols of an elephant and others…and then david’s pictures…so so spectacular: 4 beautiful women in pristine light, another picture of a child (young girl) in mosquito netting (heart breaking photograph: again, the solitary child, harvey’s real theme), a couple near a dinosaur (flying helicopter), priests in amazing red with 2 children (the young black girl between the 2 priests has to be one of the great great grat expressions/caught images i’ve seen in a long time (Harvey,w hat are you doing hiding these images from us??)…taxi drivers, trains, light…god damn, i think, this is a gorgeous essay…

    and so, i tell dima

    “thanks sweetheart…so beautiful…”

    “yea, it’s cool pictures. would you ever want to shoot in africa like David”…

    “i’d love to”….

    dima leaves….

    then i look at Lynn Johnson’s essay and read Alexandra Fuller’s story (one of my favorite writers)…and i think: GOD DAMN BEAUTIFUL…AND BLACK AND WHITE…

    and i think to myself: I am going to talk to Gina Martin when i see her and talk to her about Black and White work and Marcus Bleasdale :)))..


    why am i telling you all this:

    just this: to show you:

    my 14 year old son was looking at this mag at lunch (just as his daddy used to do as a child) and saw a name that was familiar and it brought him in and he wanted to share with his father…

    the blog is way bigger than y’all think…


  • DAH and NYC crew –

    Looks like i will not be able to make it tomorrow night. i have been gone too much and need to get my life in order. I WILL BE THERE FOR THE OCT. 3RD show though!!! Can’t wait to meet Bob & Marina – and see everyone else!!!

    ANA – I hope you are doing well. A BIG hug from me to you!!!

    LASSAL – we will make Frankfurt work – don’t worry. xo

    BOB – i love what you said about the blog – it was perfect. I feel such a connection to all of you. so THANK YOU. i had a dream about you and Marina last night – can’t remember the specifics though…. but all was good.

    PANOS – have i mentioned how much i am kicking myself that we did not meet at LOOK – ha ha!

    ALL- that is amazing news about the EPF. such generosity – it gives you hope in such a crazy world right now. THANK YOU to the donor – you are special!

    TANGUY – welcome to the family!

  • me too Gina,
    me too… but we will meet ,
    soonest ( as maestro usually says.. )


    Not knowing you, I am not familiar with your specific values and priorities, or how great was your decision of where to donate your money when there are many many worthwhile possibilities. But clearly, and wonderfully, you feel a kinship with this family, of which you are a strong part. Thank you for being in the community, and for helping us to grow.


    that’s so beautiful..


    Ever open a book randomly for guidance? I just did it for you, using the I Ching..hugs and hope it means something to you..

    You are in a situation where too many things are affecting you at once. Look at things carefully, you will find a way out once you succeed in reducing your view of details down to the fundamentals. In doing so, you should anticipate finding yourself in a totally new position. Remain relaxed and serene and you will solve all difficulties, whether through active measures or patience and biding your time.


    I’m with Beate about vulnerability; I’ve actually had well intentioned people (seasoned photographers) write me privately from LS suggesting I keep my cards closer to my chest, that I am too open..but in life I am open, so here as well. And never have I read anything written by you that makes me think anyone, editor or otherwise, would think less of you for your honesty. (something grammatically awry here, but am too tired to know what!)


    fantastic to hear you speak about the East and it’s influence on you..should have known..


    I am very curious as to the kinds of assignments you take..



    Have just completed the preview scans, at long last! Tomorrow the editing begins. All in all 172 people/dogs photographed, so accounting for the ruined film I will need about one in 3 people photographed to have yielded a strong image (to get around 45 final keepers) ..those are pretty darn high stakes, but what is done is done..wish me clear vision. Either way, I’ll be happy to drink tomorrow night! Anyone else like Prosecco?


    What is happening to this blog? Why 12 copies of David Bowen’s post, and 8 copies of DAH’s? And why is the appearance suddenly different with tiny type, and the links etc. moved to the bottom of the page…. and the familiar, reassuring format blown to smithereens?

    Or am I the only one having this nightmare?

  • Sidney, i agree with the 12 copies of DB and 8 from DAH..
    but… only the fonts slightly changed , nothing else…
    everything else is exactly the same…
    try another browser maybe..?


    yes, something has been weird today on the Typepad part of this site…i could not post for hours earlier…so, let’s hope things will smooth out…i have no idea what is wrong..if it is not better soonest, we will call customer service

  • looks normal here, using Camino

  • Okay, in Firefox things look a little more normal… but somebody has just seriously messed with the coding of this page, and among other things it has trashed its appearance in older versions of Safari. The banner photo is gone, the column structure that was so easy to read is gone, and the font is awful. And we still don’t know why the unbelievable number of repeat posts….

  • Using Safari – something’s definitely different…

  • FAN-*******-TASTIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    A BIG CHEERS to whoever was open fisted enough to donate to the cause here! Now days money is so hard to find to finance projects that can inform the world about difference and similiarities and the fact we are all humans and at the end of the day all have the same needs and some of the same wants and desires…

    That, BTW includes photo editors… (hehehehehe…) Seriously guys I am good friends with lots of PE’s that are brilliant and the shrinking budgets and the multiplying numbers of photographers are big concerns for them as well. They don’t want to see their mates struggling and they are often overwhelmed with guilt about not being able to employ and pay better many more PJ’s.

    I have had the great honour/pleasure of working with a very small but dedicated and professional team at TIME South Pacific and I can tell you these are not the arrogant or uptight and pretentious editors of some small and no name magazine. They are absolute pro’s and are delightful people as well.

    And think how you would feel if you were the PE who I rang up and made an appointment with to see the very morning it was announced that his magazine was being killed? The poor guy had to ring me back the week after to make sure I had heard the news, I mean he had just lost his job and then rang me up to apologize to me…

    The realities are that editorial photography has changed drastically from even just a couple of years ago. The medium of delivery for news has changed drastically in cashed up western countries and it has taken a fair bit of adjustment on newspaper and magazine administrations to work out viable ways of keeping the buisnesses, which is what they are, in profit so that their shareholders are kept happy.

    What is disturbing is the idea (and maybe I see it more here in Australia, ‘cos the industry, while vibrant, is small) that the people who run the budgets (accountants etc) seem to want to cut out ANY content providers (US!) from the equation.

    It just means that the content we provide has to be better than ever and thats what, I believe, is what this forum/blog/hang out with good pictures (RAFAL I just checked out ‘Family Ties’ and its really great and ERICA I can’t wait to see the new stuff) is about!

    So thanks to the generous benefactors (DAH, DONATORS etc) ‘cos if there is anything I love most its good pictures and ANYONE (PE’s very much included) that helps in the creation of them is writing themselves into history ‘cos what photographers do is provide a memory, a piece of insight into the world as it is at this precise moment…


    For my unusual verbosity, I just thought it was important to provide a more sympathetic view of the folks that work at the coal face…

  • SIDNEY…..

    i am on Safari now…all looks ok to me….

  • DAH & Community – i´m here in Buenos Aires and have started a portrait project on the Avenue De Mayo using tri’x film. here is my dilemma ‘ the price of the film here is double ie. 8 or 9 dollars per roll. in the states i pay no more than 4.00 per roll of 35mm 36 exposures ‘ as i understand from recieving a package from UPS they charge me half of the value of anything shipped here ie. import tax ‘ anybody have any suggestions ‘ i desperately need 100 rolls of film however not for eight hundred dollars ‘ anyone with experience with this part of the country please help or suggest some ideas ‘ already i have 80 rolls of trix however the film goes fast down here ‘already the results are amazing as i have found a natural light studio on a street corner ‘ the avenue de Mayo !!
    peace to all ‘ from argentina


    do they take half the value (import tax) if it sent from an individual, like a gift, ie have a friend purchase it and send it? maybe they can only charge that if it is drop shipped from a retailer?


    and I, your new work!

  • using a really old powerbook right now,
    with Safari 3.1.2…
    all ok, … !

  • Dear All,

    I just wanted to take a moment to echo the thoughts of Bob B about what the EPF means and what it has meant to me on a personal level. What David has done here is, as Bob says, is create a community, a group, a family that supports, encourages, cajoles, teases, plays with, loves…This is a group that does not exist anywhere else in our online photo world.

    As I have been based in Beijing over the last two years, away from many family and friends, this community has kept me close to many people who I know and has allowed me to share thoughts, ideas and opinions with peoples whose opinions I trust and can gain encouragement from.

    Whoever receives the next EPF (or EPFs) will receive a mixture of feelings. The biggest feeling that I felt was confidence. The confidence that David had given to me by believing in me. I have tried to take this confidence and run in the direction I had already started stumbling towards. It just helped getting a mighty push in the form of David to get me really going. Where that push will take me, I have no idea. I do know however that the momentum from that push will last a very very long time.

    There will inevitably be some arguments, disagreements etc about the recipient of the next EPF. Anyone who was around in January will know I received my fair share of criticism (panos ;) ). But I hope all of you will trust the decision(s) of David. If a member of your family receives success, you do not resent them or criticize them, you celebrate it and encourage them more. The family is there of course to bring you back down to earth from time to time and give you honest criticism but ultimately they are there to support and encourage oneanother. This is how I see a family. This family.

    So David, I look forward to hearing the announcement of he new recipient(s) of the EPF. And to the recipient(s), get ready for a very strong push!


  • SEAN/ BOB,

    Both of you said it so well with your own words…. The sense of community has never been stronger…many from the blog have not yet met but so many have been fortunate to already meet, become real friends as opposed to “just” virtual ones… It is a strange feeling really….we are now so familiar with our respective aspirations, struggles etc…. there are so many out there that I sincerely wish for them to be recognized for their talent, get that push that you (Sean) have felt yourself from last year EPF… I will he happy for whoever will benefit from it this year…..


    like BOB and the bones, you have been teasing us a lot with your project….I have to say that I am getting anxious to see it and it sounds as if this is just around the corner….few more days of patience I guess….


    Funny you talked about this issue of NatGeo in Africa…I had a copy of it laying around in my living room…. Very interesting work indeed from David at the time and quite different…the light and the colours were quite unbelievable in this work…I remember him saying that he was walking around Nairobi with a big light box… Check the link underneath that I had saved at the time. Kind of interesting to have him describe how he did that work. I loved many of the pictures….


    Had a big laugh reading your critique of however will get the next EPF…Start practicing what you would say about yourself just in case it turns out to be you :):):) Panos bashing Panos…. Must have seen this before :)

    Well, tomorrow is Friday…why do I have to love in Cinci rather than NY…I envy you Erica to be able to just stop by so easily…. Who will be our official reporter???? Hope you all have fun out there.


  • Safari 3 may be OK… Safari 1.3.2 is still a disaster.

  • Oh…and for anyone who is not sick from over-exposure to China/Olympic related coverage…here is a small audio piece I put together on the fans and spectators around the games.


  • ERIC

    funny, you wrote love, not answered your own question?

    If you knew how hard it is to get from my hood to DAHs on the subway, you wouldn’t be so envious :) It’s ridiculous, takes an hour but a bird could fly it in minutes..but for real, of course, I am aware of how fortunate I am..

    I just realized I needed to scan the 35mm I shot for the mm part, so am doing that now…it’s interesting, very different, which is what I wanted, but I need more of it I think if I am to use it. Was only out for an hour..

    Teasing, not intended..just trying to keep you abreast during my long hours at the desk here..God I wish I could have something ready in a few days..Eric, I am totally unsure how I am going to pull this off..I have all this audio that I need to go through, find the story..I had someone shoot some video which i haven’t had time to look at yet, and we are supposed to go out again and shoot once I do..I am rushed..but I have a clear idea of how i want this to feel, but lord I had NO IDEA how many hours this would take. I have a newfound appreciation for people who spend time trying to make something specific manifest in an allotted time happy, excited, hopeful..

    To be honest, all this build up is the craziest thing ever, and it makes me on edge to know that the expectation may be greater than the final work. Everything I have ever done before has been private, I don’t have people I show/share with while I am shooting, for better or worse. This is all so new, not that I am showing, but i do feel I am sharing, with words..

    So now the question is how can I show you all when the idea is a MM piece, and I am a long way away from that, I don’t even know how to edit my soundclips yet, let alone use any slideshow will come, or someone will help me, but tick tick tick…

    AND I meant to say thank goodness you are safe, am sorry about the chaos in the life and yard..

  • SEAN

    I watched your piece this am and meant to write..I am in awe at how you pulled this together to create a meaningful piece..the selective lighting does it’s job and the sound too, but how! did you make this so fast?

  • GINA :)))

    WOW :)))….I showed your note to both Marina and Dima (dima wants to know “who is gina martin? ;))”….damn, that’s 2 people dreaming…god, i hope marina and i dont disappoint y’all…but, we too are really looking forward to meeting and talking with you…and im bringing wine, so look out ;)))…see u in 2 weeks :)))

    SEAN :)))

    EXACTLY mate! :)))’ve been such a great and inspiring recipient and it’s been terrific to follow the progress of the work over the last year…and yes, i will write you about the Olympic link…just gotta get through this week and i’ll write you, but i love it! :))))….

    ERIC: :)))

    WOW, great piece, it’s so nice to listen to David talk about these images and many of those images in the MM piece are not in the magazine, so it was a real pleasure…all the pics are so powerful and so beautiful…i wish i’d known them before…but god damned are they gorgeous :)))) thanks so much for the great MM link (david know in my head, i really wanna go ….) :)))))

    ok, for u, another “tease” of Bones…

    My son (dima) in front of a Raptor…


  • SEAN

    I will never get tired of seeing your view of the Olympics, from the inside. This essay is quite touching. You have managed to give a feeling of what the Olympic experience was like for the people of China, the everyday people not the athletes or the officials. Beautiful presentation with the masking and most effective audio. The text heightens the experience for your viewers. Excellent work.

    I also want to thank you for your heartfelt words about what the EPF has meant to you. You have used it well. I certainly hope that there will only be celebration for the recipients this year. I’d hate to think that anyone would rain on their parade. As you say, we are family, and as such we need to support and encourage one another, especially when any of us meets with success.


  • OK SEAN! :)))

    so, i’ll do in now, in between shifting negative carriages…(family asleep)…I love this MM…As a fan myself of Iris shadows on images (as u probably can guess), i’ve love the series of pics since the Sand storm (all the vinettes and halos of shadow, iris pneumbra, in which the pics look like pinhole-light/flashlight points) story until this…the aesthetic really isolated the people and (at least for me) brings them into a stronger vibrancy…the intensity of their faces and colors in this style is so rich, but more importantly than the aesthetic look (lovely as it is :)) ), is the intensity of the content…those children pics are brilliant as are the pics of sports/heroes/posters…all this will that incredible quelling of a soundtrack (scary, actually, quiet Orwellian)….

    but it’s the fierce intimacy that I love…so close (you are) and yet i still feel so far…the intensity and the color and the (for me) sadness…it’s great great work, idosyncratic (my favorite kind) and positively aboout the fever of games and not the games themselves…

    love it and it made me sad….can i tell u this is the best thing i can say…

    thanks sean for sharing (sorry it took me 2 days to write)…



  • BOB B

    So wonderfully mysterious. I am SO PSYCHED to see and read Bones in its entirety!!!


  • SEAN

    Nice job pulling these images together with the sound. I saw a number of the photos before as singles… they certainly add up to more than the sum of their parts in an audio slide show. The uniform offbeat lighting style was a good choice for making this project distinctive and creating a continuity of tone and mood.

    Did you do the translations of the qoute slides? The are all pretty straightforward… one possibly very minor academic point, but as a linguist and editor I couldn’t help but notice: in the first quote slide the English uses the rather passive and innocuous verb “let” whereas the Chinese verb is “ba (3)” which is quite forceful and means “grasps”, “holds”, “bundles up”, “guards”, or “forces”. Subtle difference in attitude! Otherwise all the translations are quite literal.

  • PATRICIA ))))…

    AFTER DAVID, you get first dibs! :))) (just wrote a part about u (well, the idea) in second last paragraph…patience and it’ll be all yours too :))))

    SIDNEY: :)))

    GOD DAMNED, i love U! :))))))…that’s what im talking about: talk about photography and language…dont fucking go away :))) sure Sean will both a) laugh and b) love it :)))…u da man too…

    ok, gotta run…got some last edits before bed…




    here is one from Bones for you:

    im exhausted and lost my mind…


  • OH MY GOD…

    Bob, this image is one that burrows deep in my soul & will never leave. THANK YOU for giving me a dream to sleep into.



    Posted by: Eric Espinosa | September 18, 2008 at 10:25 PM

    :)))) , nice video… right on.!

    Posted by: bobblack | September 18, 2008 at 11:19 PM

    Super Right on Bob… i cant wait to hear the review of your NY visit….
    Im happy you eventually going to meet DAH… cant wait for your impressions…
    although i kinda have a feeling !

    So David, I look forward to hearing the announcement of he new recipient(s) of the EPF. And to the recipient(s), get ready for a very strong push!


    Posted by: Sean Gallagher | September 18, 2008 at 09:56 PM

    hey Sean, nice to hear from you, with no “firewalls” and proxys…

  • Patricia:

    what can we do……but give each other parts of ourselves…u will get it all next week, after i’ve send to dah….

    cant wait to all of us gather (be it detroit or toronto or nyc, aint no matter…aint no matter)…

    love and hugs

  • PANOS:

    OK, this will the be last post for the night…i’ve been on this god damned machine for 4 hrs…editing, re-scanning, fucking insane….

    anyway, listen, Dima asked tonight:

    “hey, u hear from that friend of yours Panos lately?”…

    see, family that stays fucking together things about others together :)))

    u gotta meet him Panos…he fucking blows me out of the water :))))…like way cooler and way smarter and, shit, way everthing…

    but what’s a dad to do…


  • ALL – my safari is a little tweaked also. may re-boot and see if that fixes it.

    BOB – love wine (especially red….) will bring some too!!

    SEAN – your words of the EPF were lovely.

    it’s 12:45 and i should be in bed….


    I just had a look at the stills I did for ‘Beautiful Music, Brown Skin Baby’ and I have at least 62 images that say something about each part of the journey and the story, but I don’t know how its all going to work together…ARGHHHH!!!!!! I need a fresh eye on it for the edit, maybe you can look at mine and I can look at yours?

    Whaddya reckon?

    And of course I am asking favors from a video editor to go through 31 hours of footage and after borrowing the video cam in the first place I am almost out of steam and as usual fighting to find my rent…

    So there is the separate picture story, a possible hour long doco and a multi-media piece to negotiate as well and I am ready to start shooting my next project (though I have three ideas and it depends a little on climate as to which one I do and one is a new direction sort of but it would I think be of interest to lots of people)

    Hell’s bells, why couldn’t I have just been happy learning to quilt or something?

  • Lisa, thanks for your comemnts on Family Ties. Im glad you like it as it is, for me its the #1 priority project I have going as its the one that is most difficult to get to do due to time and money restrictions. With the other sets in my family project (link in my name) I have been getting images on a regular basis and they are constantly growing, and being refined…Family Ties has sort of been in a bit of a holding pattern.


    I have my choices (is that correct sentense?) There are people here I glad to see with EPF grand or choosen by editors to make some assignment. I am curoius our preferences are similar :)


    I love your stories as we all do…
    “the blog is way bigger than y’all think…” you said…
    I know you are writer but you have ever problem with that your thoughts will be here forever open for everybody and public?? ( until server broke :)
    I always write what I think and I am hmmm… chatterbox… like you all see, but release my thoughts is not as natural as you do it I suppose…
    and I alwys think twice before I write something personal.
    hmmm… it’s proof I think not too much ha ha ha…
    but do you have any problem with it? I know I am limited by my tight nature.
    ALL what you think about?

    (everytime when I write word “forever” I hear Antony Hopkins’s voice “forever and ever, and ever” but in what movie it was?)

    must run,
    sculpture day I have today, many work, many coffee and many dirty words will happen today :)

    peace and release hugs for all

  • Quick …


    this is one for the americans among us:

    “In 2008, Art Matters will consider applications by nomination only. We will award grants of $3,000-$10,000 to artists focusing on communication and collaboration across national borders. We fund U.S. artists who are working internationally in all visual media including video, film, digital arts, performance (with a strong visual component), installation, and site-specific work. The work should take place within one year following the award.

    Requests may be made for:

    * International travel and exploration fellowships.
    * Grants for specific international projects.

    Unfortunately i am no US artist, so I cannot apply…
    But some of you can. :)!
    So BOB, think of a good project for Africa!!!!

    As to the EPF …
    Firstly I do not agree with Marcin that “women rule” here. And you should not forget that it is all about the BIG community. Sean was not that involved in the daily happening here, but was involved in a wider sense.
    But to be very frank with you, I would much rather not see all these discussions about who should, would etc. get it among us. Maybe I am wrong and too sensitive about these things … but in these discussions, no mather how gentle they are carried along, for me there is always this “sting” that was mentioned above… So I always cringe a little …

    The only way to influence whatever is to work. So in my honest opinion we should do excacly that. Not because of a possible EPF-grant around the corner, but because we should go on with our projects just as if there was non. Because for the very most of us there actually will be non!!! And we will carry on anyway. Because we love what we do, n’est ce pas?!

    Sorry or this.

    And you see … there are other grants too! And other ways of financing a project – thanks to David B we have an interesting website for Travelphotographes to look at and think about.

    So, stay moving and act as if there were no EPF at all… Guess that would be best. Also for the “clima” here …

    Sorry again.
    I just loved panos entry so much. Je got it right there: to get a grant is to get a lot of responsibility.

    Thank you Panos!
    Thank you BOB!

    Good bye for now.

  • ‘stay moving and act as if there were no EPF at all..’


    do what you would do .. the world begins to turn for us if we do our thing.. this needs to be a place without the feeling of competition .. so.. everyone here is recieving already.. confideence.. and more.


    I just try to say that most of persons who work I appreciate are women (it’s not mean completly that only women)
    David many times said about “lookers” editors and his friends photographers and about EFP… I like most of work linked here and I think here are many excellent photographers, but some of them are photojournalists who doing real mission real job like Sean did last year or artist (like you) who showing world by “special glasses” in high level or “almost high” level. I really hope that some of those people will do next step by this forum (non virtual) and I think this is David’s intention.
    I think David looking for diamond to change it for brillant… Is’t it David? Like most of unusual teachers do.
    I don’t have nature of teacher I don’t like too much shools and masters, but I meet this kind of persons in my life and mostly they was just amazing amazing persons, full of passion and with big open hearts. They mostly were my teachers and friends.
    Of course maybe I’m wrong, this is just my free thoughts, and my hopes, I can’t say what David’s intentions are and it’s not my intention.

    Yes… I talk to much.


    you do not talk too much … It is just me yearning for some coffeeeee… :)))

    We are absolutely on the same page, like you I hope (and am convinced) that this is David’s aim. But see… we do not even have the whole picture “down here”. :)
    And you are being very sweet to me, thank you, but … I do not consider my project as being very important. Unfortunately. For me it is now a step I have to climb to get to a more important project. But I appreciate your comment very much.

    And please consider that “real mission” can look different too. In my oppinion Sally Mann had a real mission! And it is something very personal hers … But … she makes a universal work out of it. I often think of Audrey then … She is doing something similar in my eyes. And it is getting beautifully universal. For me, as she already is a great photographer when it comes to make good photos, this step to becoming universal was the one step to go. And she did it. She just has to do some final touches (which are the hardest) … So ……….
    Your project Marcin … (you have not updated us, have you?) has all this inherent opportunities too, as have many here … I do not think at all that this “real mission” has necessarily to do with big economical or ecological issues … or plain art. I wish I could describe in words what I mean … A small gesture can be a huge mission. It is about being human, about humanity … too. For me at least. Sometimes you see it clearest in a small gesture.
    I see it in your work. But maybe you are too close to recognize it yourself?!

  • GINA,

    Welcome home Gina, and thank you for that BIG hug :-) It makes a lot of good. Muacksssss!! Will write you an email.


    I often mark some phrases in books. And from time to time I get one of those books (I’m kind of a disaster and always have a pile of books in my bedroom table that one of this days will fall down…) and open it randomly. It is amazing but usually the marked sentence makes a lot of sense in that moment. And now it, again, happened. Thank you so much for doing it for me… and thank you for sharing the small text as it really makes a lot of sense. Yesterday I was quite overcome and nervous but today I’m more calm and hope will be able to take the right decission. Yes, your randomly words from that book are true. Thank you and a big hug for caring :-)


    I briefly know some of you in person, I just know many of you from our comments in this community, but one thing is for sure, no matter the close bonds between people, there is always goodness ready for others. And this place with you all has big amounts of it. I’m really proud of it :-)


    Nice words. I’m happy to see what this place and the EPF grant means to you. Just because of that it is really worth it! The most valuable thing for me about it is what you just mentioned: that it gave you CONFIDENCE. I’m really conscious that I need huge amounts of confidence and that is why I needed to show my work in Perpignan, just to start believing that I can make it. And it is great to know that the EPF gave you that confident to you. Confident is the first step to go farther and farther. You are on your way. Now…. just reach the sky!! Btw, nice work at the Olympics. Congrats!

    Big hugs!


  • Must run for a plaster but just quick answer; I upload my assignment “hometown” some time ago. It’s finished for now. I ma not working right now until trip to thailand in november. I get new job. I will not hang my camera but I will not work too much with my many projects i’ve started nad never finished. So from my side will not too much to show.
    But we are not at the same page, it’s illusion. And i am not too modest just know the rules. You walking stright, where you will go it depends on you, i just jump there and here but without the results and for sure witout the mission.

    really must run

  • Dear Lassal it was to you, sorry

  • I know Marcin…
    and I really REALLY would like to argue with you now :)
    But I have to work too…
    Will have a look at your work as soon as I can.
    And then, dear Sir, we will have a talk!
    Bye for now and good luck with the daily non-routine. :)

  • Without the mission?
    Without the vision?

    It is not the “big light” I saw, as Jean asked. I just saw … images.
    And work :))))))

    And I know, from experience, that once I start to put my hands on it, all can still turn to something different. It usually does. And I like it. Would be boring otherwise.

    So to see the images for “Meaning” ist just to see the very first stone to step upon in order to cross the river… Not more. But I need this first step. I am shortsighted. I can always just jump from stone to stone as they appear in front of me.

    No magic here. Just work piling up :)))
    And I do NOT wish it were different.

    I just wish I could be sure it works out at the end …

  • I am not sure at all.
    It is a very personal-abstract thing I want to show in a very no-abstract way, without loosing the … abstract.
    Anybody still following me? :)))

    Maybe I fail completely. Maybe it will turn out to be completely boring. Then I will have to stop and rethink and start crossing the river again going over other stones… That is why I said it is going to take me forever. I just hope nobody is going to throw me out of this blog because of it …

  • Strange …
    a whole lot of comments from yesterday just appeared miraculously whithout having been there before …
    And you guys talking to each other… so you have had the comments all along, otherwise you could not have answered ….

    And … I did not see any difference in the blog-layout, wandering buttons, tiny type, … at all.

    Poltergeist? Twilight zone?

  • David B …
    did you notice??
    About 40 comments more – and I had the impression we were alone here yesterday. After DAH’s comment inviting Tanguy to the blog, nothing more did show apart from Bob’s nice story about Dima and 2-3 random comments that did not make sense (now they do).
    Very strange.
    Oh, and I did not see any post double or three times, let along more than 3 times.

    David, is this being backed up???

  • oops.. will read back.. very strange.. perhaps we are overloading the blog?

  • DAH
    is anybody backing up the blog? I remember we talked about it in Perp, but I do not quite remember what was said in relation to the backups …
    We need good backups.

    Alec Soth just took his blog off because he said it had been hacked … So now we cannot even read it anymore :(


    i think your words on the EPF is right on. I am not part of the EP group (nor am i wanting to at this point in my life) – but i think you should just keep moving…


    i should explain my “not wanting to at this point in my life”. i love my project in Mexico, however, it has been put on the back burner a bit at this time in my life. Between my NG job and LOOK, I not only have the time, but have enjoyed looking at work more than shooting. DAH and i have talked about this…. i want to keep working on the project, i just do not want to feel pressure to finish it or publish it. i want it to happen more organically… i just need a break and need that passion to come back.

  • Lassal,

    “Strange …
    a whole lot of comments from yesterday just appeared miraculously whithout having been there before …
    And you guys talking to each other… so you have had the comments all along, otherwise you could not have answered ….

    And … I did not see any difference in the blog-layout, wandering buttons, tiny type, … at all.”

    Same thing happened to me, exactly. Last night I posted a short message before I left to go shoot downtown, and it didn’t appear….I tried again, it still didn’t, so I gave up and left….came back, and saw all sorts of new posts from *before* I left, and mine was in there as well…

    never had issues with layouts, buttons changing etc.

    I am getting your postcard today, will send soonest :)

  • Hi all!

    BOB B.
    Hello! We never talk together, but i often like your points of views (but forgive me, it’s rare when i read your posts entirely ;-) too hard to read everybody comments!!!)

    I share your point of view about the EPF, and that Panos said, $$$ is more responsability…

    i understand better your ‘vision’. The first stone of the river to cross…


  • Gina,

    “Between my NG job and LOOK, I not only have the time, but have enjoyed looking at work more than shooting.”

    I understand completely….that is how I was with music in my life….I could practice and play in a band (I had one that accepted me), or I could record and work shows….I enjoyed working with the others, making them sound as good as possible, and recording them, so much more that I never really had the desire to work more at playing…

    I realized what I was doing was as much art as what they were doing when many of them began telling me they didn’t like the sound when I wasn’t doing it….

    ok…not sure if that really fits….I need coffee.

    g’morning all.

  • BOB!

    Forgot to say love love love that last image…

    I love the way your abstract pieces meld so seamlessly with those (like this one) that are less abstract….and the grain..the grain…someday I want to sit over a beverage with you and hear you explain how you get that lovely grain….

  • nothing on the forum looks odd to me at all.. no repeat posts.. no small type and i have no more comments showing than yesterday..

    something is definitely gone strange.. although to me all looks normal

  • Would you please pass me some (coffee) over, Andrew??

  • DAH

    Someone talking about backing up the blog made me think….I know (or I think I do?) that Michael helps you with technical things, but as an IT kind of guy, if there is anything I can do to help please please please reach out to me…it would be very uplifting for me to be able to contribute something where I *do* have some expertise as opposed to asking silly questions all the time….

  • the only thing odd on my computer about this post is that the rss feed has not loaded.

  • Lassal,

    gladly! Oooh, and I heard your coffee machine broke….after my last one gave up on me, I saw an aluminum expresso stovetop expresso maker that was so simple I had to have one….no moving parts or heating elements or electricity needed…just finely ground coffee and water and a stove (or fire!)…it’s wonderful…

    yes, today the blog looks normal…my post from yesterday even appeared in the right “time slot”….although yesterday it was not there and posts were there that are now after it….

  • RSS ok here.
    BUT Seans comments yesterday, and everything following them were not on. Not even this morning. Just one single comment on it, mentioning Sean, and me wondering, looking everywhere and not finding anything that could go with it.
    But there are now additional comments even before BOBs Dima story…. A lot of them. So I do not make any sense with my comments now, that pop up at the wrong positions. For me, my EPF reply went right after (!) Marcin writing that he sees “women ruling” here …

    Well, as long as everything is fine now …

    Andrew, thanks to offer help. DAH was asking for it in Perp. It would probably be great to get something off Mike’s shoulders. He has so much there already … Thank you! :)

  • And while it’s early and quiet and there are seemingly no impending deep discussions underway….any suggestions on what I do next (besides shoot! shoot! shoot!) to begin building a portfolio for review would be welcomed…shold it be themed? project-like, all one topic? just my very best images, regardless of context? I’ve never done this, so I don’t know….am having lunch with an artist friend soon, she also has experience curating exhibits for galleries (if that’s the right term)…I know she will be helpful, but I like lots of input to sort through….

  • ALL….

    i believe exactly as David Bowen wrote and i think most of you agree….

    i hope to hell this site is NOT about the funding…

    i am so pleased and proud that the work of all of you would create such a buzz and interest in your photographs and writing that someone would see fit to help support a photographer in their quest for more knowledge…but, as David B. points out, this internet “home” is surely ABOUT the RELATIONSHIPS…

    there is no doubt that money can really screw things up…i worried about that from the very beginning when last summer i came up with the idea to see if funding could be created off of this blog and be dispersed back to the photographers who needed it most…

    there is also no doubt that money can really help a photographer grow, pursue a worthwhile project, and therefore stimulate more of the same as a stimulus for viewers of this work and for her/his colleagues to use photography as a tool for understanding in our often helter skelter world…

    as in everything else in life, it is all about BALANCE… PRIORITIES…RESPECT…..LOVE…

    i PROMISE all of you one thing…..


    the split second that i see greed or selfishness or any of the “negatives” that money can often bring, i will shut the fund down and send the funding back to the benevolent donors….

    however, i do not see this happening….i just want all of you to know deep deep down inside my motives and my parameters…what i stand for and what i will stand for….

    Sean Gallagher, i think all would agree, has been a terrific “ambassador” as a recipient of the first EPF stipend…he went out and did more work…..he was GRACIOUS in his acceptance of this funding…he created AWARENESS with his new work…he has become a personal friend to many on this forum….so, one stipend given and one example of good use i believe….

    all day today mike and i will be producing a slide show from the work of our students this past week….hard earned work….some photojournalism, some conceptual essays….this work will be shown with utmost respect along with the work of masters Gilden and Richards…

    the student show is the grand finale….the last thing the gathered crowd will see is the student show….the last picture up on that screen will be a student picture… experience and “emerging energy” sharing exactly the same stage at the exactly same time and for exactly the same reasons…

    for those of you who may be able to attend tonight, you will see very clearly our forum in all of its manifestations….for those of you who cannot come, i hope you will at least get a sense of it and will totally “feel” the motives and positive vibes…

    ok, running…writing this note has made me late for getting the coffee pot going…many of us were up late last night editing pictures, sound tracks etc i had better get a move on scoring some bagels and coffee…

    wishing all of you a great day (or night)…rock on !!!

    peace et al, david

  • I have one of these espresso things too. But I gave one of it’s most important elements to a friend of mine, who was in need: the rubber-band that seals it :))

    If I use it now, the coffee will go all over the place :)))

  • ok, I had a dream about the blog….

    it was as it is now….long threads with conversations…..but it also had little areas you could fill in….like, a soundtrack box…kind of like a jukebox, where those reading could “cue up” songs, and you could listen or turn it off….and it had 2 (i think?) more “rooms”, for off topic conversations….these weren’t permanent, but you could pop in and out of them when you wanted to have a more email like one on one or two or three conversation, and not overwhelm the main conversation….and a movie room….and a gallery……

    very weird, I guess I had spent a bunch of time workigno n a wiki and also had re-read the wonderful description of the blog as a house party that Glenn posted a while back….

    ok, not sure why I shared that. lassal, more expresso about to be done…..

  • Oh! You can order the rubber band gasket things….I tore one and got a couple more…they are not expensive, if I remember right….

  • I have to buy a new espresso-thingy… It is of bad quality and putting in the sealing will actually not help at all. Some smiling woman gave it to me as a present when I bought a jeans last year. I guess I was the 1000000st customer or so.
    The espresso-thing never worked …
    But it provides phantastic-surrealistic paintings/drawings on the wall, once you use it …

  • About your portfolio, Andrew…
    (actually I do not even know how to do my own) –
    but you have one, don’t you? When I click on your name it shows up!?

  • lassal, highly recommend the bialetti if you can find one…I’ve had mine for years and years now…

    The pages that show when you click my name are some of my “better” images…but I want a good tight portfolio I can submit when I’m able to do a workshop (hopefully with DAH?) sometime, maybe early next year…

  • Today is International Talk Like a Pirate Day.


  • hey andrew..
    important questions for making a folio include (please add to these everybody..>)

    – who is the work going to be seen by?
    – what are you hoping to gain by showing it?
    – in what format does the work need to be seen? (hard copy.. prints.. always worked better for me)
    – what are you wanting the viewer to see?

    commercial folios usually contain the biggest spread of images, showing off your technical ability, creativity and passion with a selection from 9 to 15 or 20.. BEST PICTURES

    trying for an editorial feature in a newspaper or magazine supplement needs a tight edit, well captioned and where the photos narrative works both aesthetically and logically. these guys do not need to see any more than what you are asking them to publish.

    tailored portfolios have been my mainstay – every meeting i take along different work.
    for the past few years i have only ever shown work in print – magazines, covers, posters.. the work in context as the client used it..

    i’m now going back to a print folio – exclusively prints – for which i will be shooting some more commercial / advertising style work and the like..

    one tip a collegue let me into was this – every commission / body / shoot you do, choose 2 of the best pictures and print them.. stick them in the folio box and when the time comes you have a ready selection to present..

    here is a little of my experience.. subjective of course and perhaps utterly useless.. but i write useless things all the time so why stop now?
    i have only ‘seriously’ shown folios on two trips to london, 11 and 12 years ago… from that i got 2 clients..and an agency.. and bags of advice and encouragement..
    all other showings until now have been emailed low res, as most work has resulted from recommendation and hard work ‘linking up’ jobs.. gathering names..
    gotta get yourself connected.. writings on the wall and all that business.

    so in terms of folio i may well be an amateur.. and i’m trying for a new folio all the time.. will be here in a few months..

  • /\ actually it’s more editorial and advertising..
    very amateur

  • okay.. i cannot find the extra posts.. i guess i am only seeing a selection of what is going on now.. also still no repeating posts..

    i blame the chinese.



  • David

    thanks – those are good questions and some good tips. Will take a look at the link shortly.

    I’m trying to push myself forward, and I think having a more focused goal is important…so one thing I know I will need if I want to attend the kind of workshop I’m interested in is a portfolio to show…for the sake of having something more concrete, for instance, if DAH does another workshop at LOOK3 it requires a portfolio submission….I want to have something I can submit with confidence and pride…

    Perhaps I’m too logical/linear….but I see growth as a series of steps….I can take the occasional good photo…I can narrate a story pretty well with snapshots (I think), now I need to refine that…

    I want to get to the next level…but there is a saying that goes something like “if you don’t know where you’re going, any path will get you there” … while I want to learn to flow and create, I think it’s also important to have the next stage in mind, to be doing things that will take me in that direction….

    All that said, I also know that sometimes it is possible to push to hard, that it just has to happen….so I keep that in mind as well….

    hmmm…when we talk about taking ourselves to the next level, do we really know where that level is, or what characterizes it?

    I think I’ve found my ponder for the day….

  • david,

    extra posts seem to be gone. whatever was mucked up seems to have repaired itself 9or been repaired outside our vision). A bit scary.

  • It’s the organic blog—has a mind of it’s own!!

    thanks for the recommendation :)

    First, if you go for a TPW workshop for example, you do not have to submit a portfolio. I think none of us did. But it was helpful to have a portfolio ready to take so that David (or whoever) could have a look and “sort you in” somehow, meaning, get an idea about where you are at the then present time. In connection to where you would like to go, a question that will want to be answered by you.

    Well, in Tuscany I was really not the nice student. I did not have a portfolio, because I had mine home and was coming to Tuscany directly from an outward assignment, and … I did not know where I wanted to go from there either. I was completely unsure about photography at all … Mainly just snapping around a little here and there.

    I guess what helped was the fact that DAH knew some of my work because I had been on this blog. Otherwise it would have been hard for him to “guide” me … He kinda has to know from where to where. But be prepared that he has an own map and might redirect you :)))

    So applying for DAH’s Loftworkshop is one thing, and TPW is something else (and there are more workshops around too). You might want to go to TPW or something similar first to get some more basics.

    But even if I am the one answering now, I might not be the right one to answer your questions…

    As to your portfolio (I was on the phone the last hour and could not finish this comment …) David B put it nicely… :)

  • oops—
    comments disappearing in front of my eyes.
    Have to work anyway.

  • andrew

    the next level.. it’s always there, no?

    i guess in my mind i still have the dream from when i was a teenager.. as a foundation.

    then i guess i have looked for natural progressions.. in life and photography.. listened to what the world is offering me and selectively chosen to go there or not.

    the greater dreams are still in my head.. a book.. a retrospective.. and they operated almost as a subconcious influence for many many years.. only recently surfacing and becomeing a reality, in part because of this forum and the confidence / relationships that it lends..
    in this respect i already have what i came to this forum in search of.. a place to hang out and stay connected.. relate.. empathise.. adjust.. soak up the disparate relative realities of us all and see whats common..

    we’re all skint.. poor.. of wealth..
    we’re all rich.. eager.. passionate..

    keeping the greater goal in mind helps with tough times i think.. but it’s got to be kept way back there.. no running before walking.. there are levels to be reached and leap-frogging them does not work .. not for the vast majoritry of us anyway.

    something i have found over these past months is this – moving up a level is much more a psycological step than a stylistc or educational one… i think.. could it be a bunch of crap i’m talking? .. well.. perhaps.
    i think i am half right though..
    climbing out of the skin i inhabited for the past decade and wandering away from my working life is the only way i could see where i had got to.. i think i did okay with my last life.. smallest of pats on the back from me to me..

    after a while concentrating.. might be one year intensely or 10 less so.. the next level seems to arrive in front of you.. like a little permission slip in the post..
    ‘and no – you’re ready.. ready to take up a little more room and squeeze your shoulders into a new.. tighter space..’

    who knows?
    not me.

  • for the music, not the video/images….

    been listening to this all morning.

  • David said;

    “there is also no doubt that money can really help a photographer grow”

    I should agree but I have bought several films I had free three weeks I could do anything, and I did nothing. Films lie untouched. No reason to go out there.

    I like this sentence;
    “this internet “home” is surely ABOUT the RELATIONSHIPS…”

    David, all

    Disappear for a while. I’ll be the looker. I have to focus on something and my mind is twisted. I am curious what will happen here soon so I’ll be reader.


  • and now you’re ready, that needs to say /\

  • 7:02 in L.A…

    I tried to post couple things last night… spam filter activated…
    or something…
    got a voicemail from DAH but my phone had no good reception either…
    ( DAH was explaining that neither him or Mike C was “allowed”? to type in anything for a while… )

    so.. are we getting hacked in here..????? of course…
    all that a minute after someOne tries to SUPPORT US AND help our
    EPF cause… in here
    like couple months ago with those attacks on me by those
    “californiaraisins” spammer guys , all the filthy emails and the
    filthy personal attacks… probably same guy ,
    but changing his name often… so ,
    it is sad, sad, sad,sad….
    there should be no satisfaction by hacking this blog… unless im
    missing something… whats so challenging and intriguing about

    so DAH called me last night stressing AGAIN and ONCE MORE…
    what exactly wrote above…
    “…… our “thing” its not about the money…. there will be
    SEVERAL RECIPIENTS… several new ambassadors… money is about
    help, help, help , help and motivation..
    please post that for me , because i cant login….

    ….. anyways, got the message… i try to log in… couldnt do it…
    so im trying again once more to repost….

    Bottom line….
    y’all know David by now………….
    He’d rather throw all the fucking money in the garbage can or return it back….
    AGAIN ALL………
    SEVERAL STIPENDS… David also admitted that he wasnt quite
    sure how he is going to “distribute” the funds….
    he is not sure if he will give a larger amount and then couple of
    smaller “stipends” or what… anyways … the money “details”,
    is not really what bother David the most…
    our “exposure” is… our photographic future is….

    As we all know “MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL”…
    IF YOU WIN THE LOTTO TODAY…???? would YOU really go and
    put yourself in danger in a war zone or would you expose your
    “rich” ass next to malaria or HIV patients… or… How big our blog
    would still be if it wasnt for money involved??? Are we really that
    much of Hypocrites????? )

    HACKERS AND SCAMBACKS….????? in our forum and in general ?


    so… people of this forum ( not ALL this time )…
    “WE” aint going anywhere…
    MONEY or no fucking money involved… but
    YOU …the filthy hackers , trust me on this…
    “YOU WILL VANISH as long as money vanishes….
    you will disappear as money disappear…”
    now, go away, go play somewhere else… go hack
    BILL GATES or the GOVERNMENT … go mess with the REAL
    EVIL out there mr. PHONY SUPERMAN…

    and again… DAH sorry , but i couldnt login earlier myself,
    to post all the above…
    and lets start again… from the beginning..

    let me make a coffee… i woke up so anxious to “do my job”,
    that i neglected my own addiction…

    very special love for
    ANDREW B &
    DAVID B today……

  • ALL

    I agree with DAH

    It always will be the photograph, the comprehension of life, perhaps the chance at a meaningful place in history- I don’t know- maybe if I could be like- Nachtwey/DAH/Pelligrine/Frank/Moore/DuPont/Arbus/Cotton (not necessarily in that order and more, so many more…) could my little self contribute to the world in some small way…

    But brothers Bob, David Bowen and Panos AND ALL THE SISTERS!!!!!!!!…..

    Its not so easy and its definitely never about the money- and its not even about feeling the love…

    I have to wonder what it really is about, really….

    But EPF, really who cares, if you want to make your work, you will do it regardless…

    I think my Brother BOB and Cousin DB they get it really…

    Its about family and that is the most important…

  • Special love for LISA H…;-) too ,
    for today & everyday..

  • Patricia Lay-Dorsey,
    I’ve always wanted to go to one of those lap-shooting clubs but my wife won’t let me. Seriously: you are good at the technique.


  • And Panos, especially Panos…

  • PANOS :))))

    LOVE YOUR curse-word filled CONGRATULATIONS note to the “winner’! :)))))))))…balls out funny love it :)))))…sorry, just saw it this morning :))))…and totally agree…just as i said last year, i could care less about winning or not (highly unlikely), i’ve just felt honor to be part of this, and it was such a thrill to make Bones with the Intention as an Assignment for this specific blog and for this specific person (david)…and it turned into something for my dad and son :))))……i actually think EVERYONE wins! :))) ……but, i could use the money too ;)))))))))))))))))))))) (who the fuck couldnt)…

    LISA: :))))…TOMORROW, all day metta retreat: i’ll be sending you thoughts, believe me and love and safety :))))…and yea, everything i do is really about Marina and dima and the rest of my family…and that includes my friends…without them, im fucking gone/lost/sunk…no amount of dough can change that :)))))

    ANDREW B :))))…ok, if u’re at the fiesta on October 3rd, i’ll tell u my “secret”…but it’s really about how i develop the film, what film im using, light conditions and the way i shoot..but, yea, i’ll share :)))…and bones will have a good mix between ABSTRACT (wait until i show the pinhole-camera shots) and clear/straightforward: it has all that together, like a son mixing with both (i hope) :)))

    gotta run

    hugs y’all


  • and a SPECIAL, special, special..
    HUG… for DIMA…
    You obviously have the best DAD in the
    Dima.. You don’t have to be a photographer
    or an artist to have my respect and love..
    Bob you got a great son…

    and speaking of sons..
    DAVID B.. We all expecting and waiting
    patiently for your great baby news coming up..
    Your baby will be our first official
    Photo real baby born in our virtual
    So , also extra love for David B’s baby
    Coming soon.. or should I say..

  • david b —
    now that the blog is working again, i will return to your comment from yesterday..
    if i can get to vietnam, i will go. the trip would be amazing and rewarding on many levels. working with the group i would be going with would also allow access i could never obtain on my own.
    as mentioned yesterday, though, my original question was hypothetical, so i will have to see if i can work things out financially and otherwise.
    you brought up nachtwey — in one of my journalism courses (where i was the lone photojournalist in a class otherwise full of writers), a presentation on journalists we respect and admire quickly turned into a battle of ethics when i brought in nachtwey’s “inferno” to share.
    i suppose that is why i was interested on how others choose/justify one project over another.
    yes, i am in the US — jackson hole, wy — which brings up that if anyone ever pops in for photography at the summit, say hi (jodi cobb, bill allen, chris johns, and a number of other notables, will be here in october, but no DAH this time..)


    Okay, until 5 minutes ago I was still getting a trashed blogsite, but just now it has more or less returned to normal even in Safari 1.3… Keeping my fingers crossed that it stays that way!

    ALICIA in Jackson Hole

    Greetings… you’re near one of my old stomping grounds.. I was basically a North Idaho-NW Montana-Interior BC hill hippy bum in the mid 70s, but I sometimes spent part of the summers (only!) in a funky cabin on the road north out of Cora, on the way to where it dead-ends on the back side of the Wind River Mtns. That was before the big Republican hobby-ranch money moved in, before the road got paved, before there was any kind of building code… the ‘town’ of Cora consisted of exactly one gas station/cafe. Jackson was not yet ‘Santa Fe North’ but was headed in that direction… I’m sure I wouldn’t recognize anything now, except the sagebrush and the jagged profile of the Tetons. Hope you are enjoying it!

  • Sidney –
    LMAO at the description.. but yeah..
    I haven’t traveled extensively around smaller areas of Montana and Idaho, but having lived in and out of Jackson for the past 24 years, I can picture being in the area in the 70s.
    Jackson is not nearly the same as it was when I originally moved here, and there is a lot of money in town now, but there are those of us that just live, work, and struggle to get by in an area we love, too.
    The town has character.

  • Given the volume of comments here, wouldn’t an organic blog be hard on the hamster? I can see the ASPCA getting its collective knickers in a really tight twist if we didn’t give the little rodent a break every once in a while. I realize that we should all do our part to lessen our dependence on foreign oil, but I won’t be a party to cruelty to animals, even if hamsters and gerbils are first cousins to mice and rats.

  • Incidentally, Alicia… talking about Jackson, and your mentioning the Summit photo meeting… if there are any academically inclined young folks out there, a fascinating topic for a master’s thesis would be: “The Influence of National Geographic Magazine on the History and Development of Jackson Hole, WY: Images and the Lure of an American Shangri-La”. ‘Nuff said.

  • alicia

    fingers and toes crossed for you alicia.. if it’s mean’t to be it will be .. and all that stuff.. although.. if you want it, it’s right.

    waiting.. waiting.. cannot wait.. have to wait.. whenwhenwhen.. the patience game.

    the first look into the eyes of our love-child.. what a blast that’ll be.. no DMT or potions will compare.. up there.. falling in love with what our love has created..

    it’s been a trip.. photos from the love affair will be sorted and shown with an ending.. a whole story.. emigration to passion to the ending and a new beginning.. and a new life.

    thanks for the thoughts.. passed on to beate who’s home-making pizza right now.. could be any day.. could be any week.
    within 3 weeks we hope.

    the name.. we have the name.. it’s a corker..


    for your photography needs.. there is always a way.. there is always a channel to find and there is always an avenue you have not looked in yet to
    think creatively about the method and there are no limits.. anything is possible.. hard work.. self motivation.. focus.. at the right times..
    it will work out..
    be grateful and be humble along the way – people always want to help.. they have to know what you want, though.. so know what you want in yourself and be honest to that vision..

    sorry to sound like a poor-mans YODA.. all too much to say.

    here is what main-man kahil gibran says of work.. be happy.. connect.. it’s truth..

    ”You work that you may keep pace with the earth and the soul of the earth.

    For to be idle is to become a stranger unto the seasons, and to step out of life’s procession, that marches in majesty and proud submission towards the infinite.

    When you work you are a flute through whose heart the whispering of the hours turns to music.

    Which of you would be a reed, dumb and silent, when all else sings together in unison?

    Always you have been told that work is a curse and labour a misfortune.

    But I say to you that when you work you fulfill a part of earth’s furthest dream, assigned to you when that dream was born,

    And in keeping yourself with labour you are in truth loving life,

    And to love life through labour is to be intimate with life’s inmost secret.

    But if you in your pain call birth an affliction and the support of the flesh a curse written upon your brow, then I answer that naught but the sweat of your brow shall wash away that which is written.

    You have been told also life is darkness, and in your weariness you echo what was said by the weary.

    And I say that life is indeed darkness save when there is urge,

    And all urge is blind save when there is knowledge,

    And all knowledge is vain save when there is work,

    And all work is empty save when there is love;

    And when you work with love you bind yourself to yourself, and to one another, and to God.

    And what is it to work with love?

    It is to weave the cloth with threads drawn from your heart, even as if your beloved were to wear that cloth.

    It is to build a house with affection, even as if your beloved were to dwell in that house.

    It is to sow seeds with tenderness and reap the harvest with joy, even as if your beloved were to eat the fruit.

    It is to charge all things you fashion with a breath of your own spirit,

    And to know that all the blessed dead are standing about you and watching.

    Often have I heard you say, as if speaking in sleep, “he who works in marble, and finds the shape of his own soul in the stone, is a nobler than he who ploughs the soil.

    And he who seizes the rainbow to lay it on a cloth in the likeness of man, is more than he who makes the sandals for our feet.”

    But I say, not in sleep but in the over-wakefulness of noontide, that the wind speaks not more sweetly to the giant oaks than to the least of all the blades of grass;

    And he alone is great who turns the voice of the wind into a song made sweeter by his own loving.

    Work is love made visible.

    And if you cannot work with love but only with distaste, it is better that you should leave your work and sit at the gate of the temple and take alms of those who work with joy.

    For if you bake bread with indifference, you bake a bitter bread that feeds but half man’s hunger.

    And if you grudge the crushing of the grapes, your grudge distills a poison in the wine.

    And if you sing though as angels, and love not the singing, you muffle man’s ears to the voices of the day and the voices of the night.”

    if you like that, the rest of the chapters are at..

  • Sidney —
    (Ansel Adams, anyone?)

  • Oh, did I really say I was a “hill hippy bum”? Pardon my French! What I should have said was “a member of the rural counter-culture on a spiritual path.”

  • also, extra love for
    Alicia and
    Akaky today…

  • Sidney — I am laughing way too hard. Must remember — Tea does not belong on my computer screen… Mouth shut. Eyes on photos.. Swallow tea before continuing..
    But whoo! I scored love from Panos today, too. The day is suddenly happier! :)
    Right back at ya Panos and all.

  • Hello David & All,

    David: first off, thank you for the invitation tonight.
    I have plans with my girl but I’ll try to make it before you close the doors ;)

    Bob B: I read your story about the NG mag and your son and, after looking at the Nairobi link, I remembered seeing it also. In fact, it was my Dad (he loved this country) that told me about it back then!
    Talk about how this “bigger-than-we-think-blog” flows…

    Gina, Jean, etc:
    Thanks for your welcome.

    Cheers to all,

  • Alicia: comforted that you are not the only one who has snorted tea in reading the posts, here….


    Please post a link to some of your work sometime!

  • andrew b —
    soonly. i promise. there is a large amount of scanning, editing, webbing, and such going on right now. i am going to lose one computer for about a week, but that should force me to use my old computer which still has my web design programs and such.. if not, i’ll make a link work somehow.

  • lol. just watched the youtube video… maybe now is the time to leave for my ‘real’ job.. lol. good laughing with you all this morning. :)

  • DAVID…

    When was Blues and Booze posted? When was it shot? I hadn’t seen it before. Have been having problems with the blog for the past couple days which now seem fine…but in searching around your site I came upon this new (at least to me) slideshow.

    Please tell…

  • from Andrew S

    I won’t be there tonight unfortunately. Please send DAH my best. I am now at the airport in Salvador, Brazil on my way home after almost 3 weeks on the road. Great trip, some good pictures and most importantly, many stories to tell.


    Thanks for the Obama link. I can certainly relate to the “waiting for Obama” images. It was a LONG wait, in line and standing in place but TOTALLY worth it. Glad you were able to see him. It was wonderful in Espanola yesterday. AMAZING actually. I didn’t get quite as close as you did (lucky you!) but pretty close.

    I am going out for more shooting this evening and hope to edit and share new work this weekend. Finally!!!

    Don’t know if you saw my comment to you a while back….We also “shared” another amazing event this summer…Buffy Sainte-Marie was here in Santa Fe too. Wasn’t she something? I call her the Native American Tina Turner :))

  • DAVID B.
    You’re wise man…Love Khalil Gibran too.

    “for your photography needs.. there is always a way.. there is always a channel to find and there is always an avenue you have not looked in yet to
    think creatively about the method and there are no limits.. anything is possible..”
    You’re not playing yoda-style, it’s only truth, and thank you for remembering it to all of us.

    Love your Grateful Dead photos!!! I would have loved to be there!

    I discovered the work of Douglas Beasley, i didn’t know this photographer:

    I’m very happy to find it, because i’m very interested in the holy aspect of photography, as a medium, as an art, as a craft, and, most of all, something to reveal life, love and grace.

  • Today i clean my darkroom, not used since a very long time. I want to make prints with old negatives…Don’t want to start a useless debate about digital/film issues;

    Only i need to find again this aspect of photography, this way to process pictures, a more spiritual way to me than a computer.


  • JEAN…
    i’m totally with you…

  • Wow…David McG…..that song brings back so many memories….I had that album way back when….

  • yeah that song has always stuck with me for some reason—I slip into some daydream about driving out west with the windows rolled, a pair of cowboy boots and a pretty girl

  • MIKE R

    If you show your wife this pic I lap shot at a concert tonight, maybe she’ll let you try it too ;=)


    The concert where I took the photo linked to above was a FANTASTIC experience of hearing compositions by the Argentinian nuevo tango master Astor Piazzolla as performed by Michigan’s Oblivion Project. Check out this YouTube clip of the master playing with his quintet:

    Ain’t NOTHIN’ sexier than tango music!!!


  • hey patricia..

    what a great photo.. perfect.. pappas big hands.. smile.. s’all about love.. beautiful.

    you know what your lens sees and it’s great to see the viewfinder convention being dropped.
    more power.

    great music as well..


    i’m even envious .. i’ll set up a darkroom soon.. sold my last one off years ago, and the tech is so cheap these days..

    it is true about photo needs.. there are a thousand ways to get it done.. and one of the benefits of being poor can be creative thinking..
    i used to ‘work’ the discounts through the folks in my local lab.. who became friends over the years..
    4USD per film for dev and scanning high quality and they’d sometimes throw in a few rolls of fujifilm..

    the tough thing was working the numbers to minimize my personal budget.. so i dumped having a car.. found a cheap studio in a disused factory and lived in it.. whatever it took to make myself available and ready when the phone rang or i had a pitch accepted.

    not sure i was wise though.. if i had been i would have spent much less on potions :o)

  • At this moment it’s 2:45 AM in New York and I’ll bet David’s Fiesta has entered Phase Three, with only the serious drinkers and the people who never know when to leave still hanging on. For those of us not at the Fiesta or entangled with Significant Others, here is a little global trivia: if you followed Patricia’s link to the youtube clip of Astor Piazzola and his Quinteto Tango Nuevo, you probably noticed it had Japanese subtitles and came off of Japanese TV. What those of you who haven’t lived in Japan may not realize is that after Argentina and Uruguay, Japan is the third most important country in the world for the tango… yes, there are dozens of tango orchestras and hundreds of professional tango dancers and teachers, as well as thousands of serious amatuers both playing and dancing. There are specialized tango composers as well. They take tango seriously in Japan, and have for at least three generations. Does this alter slightly your perception of Japanese culture?

    We hear a lot about coffee on this forum, the need for it, the fact that we haven’t had it yet, the fact that we are spilling it on our screens and keyboards, the fact that our espresso maker needs a new gasket. And late Saturdy morning, or early Saturday afternoon, whenever he wakes up, I’m sure David Alan Harvey will be no exception. I confess that I too am a coffee adict, although what’s worse is I’m a cafe au lait addict… I try to limit myself to two cups a day but often go for a third. So here’s the global-consciousness trivia question for this evening… what country has by far the highest per capita consumption of coffee in the world? Where do they jolt themselves with more java than anywhere else on the planet??? The first person who can answer correctly will receive a prize… I have no stock of camera bags to give away, but I used to teach geography and I still have a stash of fairly exotic maps… I will send you an interesting map if you know the answer! (Now where’s the coffepot…?) Hint: this time, it isn’t Japan.

  • Dear Sidney,

    My answer is …..Finland.
    Is it right? ^^(this is smile symbol in Asia)
    I love coffee too much with Pain, sushi, Tango and dance. hahaha
    I stay in Japan now … next wednesday to NewYork to attend David’s Loft workshop.

    Do you stay in Vancouver untiil now?
    I’ve enjoyed your works of festival there…it made me smile and happy.^^

    Thank you very much. ^^

  • sidney… kyunghee…


  • Kyunghee Lee is right I think.
    I’d say Finnland too. Unfortunately I’m now #2

  • i wish i was a fin. i could then say things like:

    “hi, i’m anton. i’m a Fin. want coffee?”

    (ok back to work now, anton. playtime’s over :-)

  • ERICA …
    as to my assignments up to now. It is all about illustrations… Not about Photography. The only connection with photography I had until now is that I often do the layout for these kind of jobs for big agencies here in Europe. Meaning: I actually come up with the image for the agency’s pitch that will later have to be captured by a photographer. For some of my longtime clients I even have to do photorealistic drawings … They want to know EVERYTHING in advance! And then the agency gets a photographer who has to do EXACTLY that. I sometimes do not know how they do it.

    Kind of scary. I think I posted something about this in response to a comment a long time ago.

    You see, there are different kinds of photojobs coming from clients. And sometimes you as a photographer practically do not get any freedome at all. Nobody would come up to David to give him such an assigment. But in other cases this happens. And … I am one of these people who are hired to come up with the image for that kind of assignment. So I do the photo before the photo is shot.

    It is just … after the hard time after the ecommerce-bubble burst some years ago, big-name clients, who invest a lot of money in commercials, ads etc… started to micromanage agencies a little more (at least here in Germany). So while some years ago a sketch would have been enough, they want to see a worked out illustration now. So a lot of decisions that originally were taken by photographers, are now being taken by a group of people sitting in meeting rooms. With all the issues than come with it. Now more than ever it is extremely important to have a professional team of experts sitting in these rooms (from the agencies AND if possible from the client’s side). Unfortunately this is not often the case …

    But as I mentioned, this is nothing to do with DAH’s kind of assignments or photojournalism. This is commercial stuff where you often work with lesser known photographers.

  • Heh, I’m a Finn… it’s mostly tons of coffee to fight the hangovers… btw, it seems that I’ll stay for longer in Cardiff, I just hope that my shooting doesn’t transform into life long projects ;-)

  • Morocco sydney?

    i guess norway is in with a hot, given how people meet for coffee since alcohol is prohibitively expensive..


    맞습니다! 축하 드립니다! 재미있는 지도를 보내 드릭겠읍니다. 세계 여러나라들중, 호기심이 있는곳은 어딥니까? 일본에는 언제까지 계시겠읍니까? 부산으로 보내 드리면 좋을까? 주소를 이멜로 알려 주십시오.

    제가 사는곳, 벨링햄이라는작은도시, 미국에 있으면서도 밴쿠버시에서 멀지 않는데 사흘동안이나 나흘동안이나 자주 왔다갔다 다니고 있어요. 친애하는 옛날 친구도 있고, 동양사람들 많아요. 깨다가 밴쿠버의 음식이 이마을보다 훨씬 맛있어요.

    Yes, Kyunghee is correct! I don’t know how you Finns do it, but the Finns drink twice as much coffee as the French and the Italians, and nearly three times as much as Americans! All the Scandinavian countries are high on the list, but Finland is off the charts. Maybe everybody in Europe knows this… but I wonder how many people in America do?


    내주일 뉴욕으로 가시겠다고 하셨죠. 그렇면, 데비드선생님댁으로 지도를 보내 드리겠읍니다. 재미 많이 보십시요!

  • Morning ALL

    I know DAH is awake post-fiesta because the workshop participants gathered at 10 am..ouch, I was still sleeping till recently..

    Wonderful night..I took notes :) and will report back as soon as the tea caffeine kicks in and I eat something..


    thank you for the Gibran words, am finally willing to see work as the wonderful extension of divinity that it can be..


    thank you..I so wish I had been more serious about photography during my GD days…with the number of shows i attended I could have made a serious archive, but I think I only brought the camera to 3 shows; still the memories are permanent.


    am really looking forward to meeting you post workshop at the next fiesta


    thank you for the information about your illustration work, I guess I had missed that at some point..very interesting.

    A group of us went to dinner before the fiesta last night, and with the bill came a postcard from the restaurant..the moment it landed on the table I knew I had to send it to you for the Stranger’s Wish..

    BTW, did you see my post to you about Sophie Calle?


  • ERICA …

    looking forward to hear your report!! :))

    AND looking forward for your postcard for “A Stranger’s Wish”! I am really loving this project now … It is making us meet! I’ll be over to NYC sometimes next year. Can hardly wait!

    I fear I missed your Sophie Calle post. Hmmm … Sorry! Was it on “War Photographer”? Do you remember?
    I’ll have a look. It is interesting because I have heard a lot of people mumble this name now. She was mentioned too when my I first posted my project, because she followed people on the streets … I really liked that.
    Have wanted to check her out since then but have not had the time yet.

    Actually I should not be reading here. It will be a loooooong night of work as I am letting me sneak in here too often :)

    A big hug, Erica,

  • Hangul is a pretty alphabet, ain’t it? In any case, boys and girls, I am shooting a birthday party today, a quinceanera, if I’m spelling that right, which more or less constitutes my first major paycheck from picture taking (that I didnt charge enough is evidenced by the fact that I have lost a ton of money getting ready for this thing, what with buying gear I didnt have and what all) and I need everyone to think happy thoughts to counter the tsunamis of negativity I’ll be generating all by my lonesome. I wish I could do the happy, optimistic, upbeat, everything’s going to turn out all right thing, but it’s just not me, I’m afraid.


    Good luck, my man! Hope it goes well. Try to have some fun with it… the way you have fun with words! And remember, it’s only rock’n’roll…

  • AKAKY,
    go kick some ass…
    take David’s Dancing techniques with you too…
    dont worry about gear…
    connect, have some wine .. loosen up… and
    thats all…
    to boost confidence, when you are in doubt,
    show your customer a preview of a good shot…
    they will approve and you will feel wayyyyy better
    and more secure…

    good saturday y’all… 11:00 am at the WEST COAST

  • Lassal admits…:

    “…Actually I should not be reading here. It will be a loooooong night of work as I am letting me sneak in here too often :)…”

    ahhh Lassal… thats the story of our “Blogolives” …

  • 1:00pm… West Coast…
    it seems that NY is still hangovered..
    No news from the east coast reporters yet…
    no reportage from last nights fiesta…
    hmmmm… waiting !

  • no its turkey….
    turkish coffee….

  • Sidney,

    I love geography and am a sucker for maps, but I should have read all the way down!

    My oh my—Finland! I have a friend from Finland who works 12 hour shifts in a coffee bar here in Rome…I should have known!

    Interesting trivia from Japan…and great to hear about David Harvey’s asian influence as well… Asia is high on my list of places to travel—I have never been to the orient!

  • ALL….

    i cannot see that we are being hacked, but there was definitely something wrong with Typepad a couple of days ago….however, i do not know really what to look for…maybe some of you do…and maybe some of you know the best way to “save/backup” the blog…Tom Hyde had offered to back it up a few months ago , but i do not know if it is still happening…

    the only thing i did internally was to delete the 12 repetitive posts of David B. and the 8 of my own…i have not touched anything else…

    if you suspect hacking or know how to stop it, please let me know…it would be a shame to lose all that we have done….

    i will let someone else who was at the slide show last night report..

    are any of you up yet???

    cheers, david

  • david

    chances are that all the trouble was caused because this post does not have a title (see top of post)… i think that when someone posts a comment, that typepad redirects to the same page or something, and because of no title, it doesn’t know where to go and the comment appears to get lost… i’m no tech guy so i might be talking rubbish here, but in a weird sort of way it seems to make sense in my mind… maybe check if the title or description is missing?

    backup is really critical… we should definitely do this asap… would hate to lose this here if sth happens… normally you can have automated backups sent to your ftp daily…

    i have lots of space on my hosting available, if you want you can backup to my ftp as well i can give you a login… spread the risk…

    should i talk to michael about this? i guess this is a techie kinda discussion, but i guess we should make an exception and have this one… too important…


  • david

    downloaded sitesucker and am downloading all the posts/comments here to backup. will find a way to do this daily from now on… too important…
    it’s in html format so no “restoring” the blog possible, but at least posts & comments are backed up…

    here’s the link what you can do from within your control panel for typepad:


    I think that’s scary from a photographers point of view and probably the big reason why I don’t want to enter really commercial photography. I’m not saying you’re doing a bad job or not needed job, but in a way I just thinks it’s sad.
    The commercial agencies don’t seem to respect and value photographers anymore and only use them for technical reasons.
    I was an assistant for a commercial photographer before and an agency asked him to copy a stock image or microstock image. They even hired a model to do the exact same picture. Ridiculous! I actually think that 3D will take over more and more of commercial photography..



    You really “walk your talk.” Thank you, dear friend, for backing up this valuable resource. We sure don’t want to lose any of it, and thanks to you, now we won’t…

    I seriously doubt if we were hacked mainly because some of us were affected and others not. For instance I had no problems until late last night when I tried to access the blog and got a message that said typepad was temporarily down. All was well this morning. But I’m used to that with No big deal.
    BTW I think your idea about typepad getting confused because this thread had no title is right on.


  • ALL:

    just returned from a 12 hr day of silence and Metta retreat….so, words are totally accessible…but:

    SIDNEY :)))

    though i guess Kyung-Hee gets the map :))))


    I SAID METTA FOR EVERYONE ON THIS BLOG TODAY…we also did a Tonglen Practice mediation at the end of the day…so i took ur black cloud of negativity and turned it into joy….YOu will make the Quinceañera photographs SING…i know it…trust me…i spent the entire day working for y’all….believe it :)))…hugs


    and the Mario??…thanks for the back up too…

    ERICA: the fiest report??….


    see u in 2 weeks….

    LASSAL :)))…yea, you and i also talked about Sophie C with you….as erica says, make sure you check her out (gotta read her books dear)…she’s been a long time hero of mine :)))

    PATRICIA :))

    for you:


    nice to “talk” to you…/meet you….sorry i missed ur post…

    TANQUAY :))))…yes, i lovve that essay, and was so happy the my son shared it with me…

    HARVEY: where’s the woskhop report :)))

    runningn now


  • Will do my best, but do try to picture a darkened room lit only by the screen while I tried to scribble notes on a tiny pat, and simultaneously attempted to sit on the floor in a small party dress, in a somewhat demure way…so forgive me DAH if I scramble anyone’s words..

    KELLY, KIRSTEN, NANCY and JF and his wife SUSAN and I met ahead of time for dinner at The Diner, which, though at some point it may have been a diner, is now more of a swank hangout..drink and food was lovely, as was the conversation..then over to DAHs

    When we arrived a dry run or something was happening for the slideshow, and the party was upstairs in the loft..lots of happy faces, chatting, drinking as is expected. If you haven’t been, there are STACKS of amazing, often signed, photo books all around, which many people flip through and discuss; and then I can’t help but move the cast offs back to their piles, away from all the beer bottles..I finally met sweet ANNA B, and we caught up quickly and naturally; she was tired of course, but full..

    The slideshow was ready, we all moved downstairs..the long hall that lead to the room was lined with large prints from the photographers who took the workshop, a teaser.

    The room filled, most of us on the floor, and David started off the evening, saying it is hard for the emerging photographer to photograph his own life, but that is what he asks of us. That everyone says they want freedom but that they don’t know what to do with it once they have it..that at the workshop, he wants to offer the students their freedom, with support.

    David said he saw Eugene when he was younger, and he immediately understood that he would be a key person in his life, someone that showed david that it was possible for him to go after his own freedom.

    EUGENE: David got me here again..

    He started talking about his story Cocaine True, Cocaine Blue, that he initiated for Life Magazine, but he had to continue it on his own..said he can’t stop till it’s done.

    98% of the people he photographed are now dead from overdosing, from AIDS..people with whom he built trust and wonderful relationships.

    EUGENE: I sort of mumble around into photographs..

    He showed an image of a woman that he said spoke t no one, but who wrote lengthy ;etter to God..she was murdered..

    He showed an image of a large man holding up his guns, and said people often ask how he got that shot..

    EUGENE: He asked me to take it, and he isn’t someone you argue with… :)

    PAUSE for SUSHI…will return xo

    NEW LINK………… shot about an hour ago………


    There is a time… a very particular time… that you have to “face” a kid , “face to face”…

    and tell the truth… sensitive yet firm… but the kids “IS” the future… they know more..


  • Speaking of breaks, at this point Eugene said

    Sometimes I take a break; it’s good to get away from death and dying and go to something life affirming..

    He started a series on birth, I think these were people he sort of fell into, and they turned out to be “incredibly beautiful people” .

    EUGENE: The project I am working on now is kind of naive; I hit a point and I had to do something.

    That something is his powerful, stunningly meaningful piece War is Personal. He is working with a combination of photos and text to show how war has affected some who are here, at home.

    EUGENE: I find in this case, the photos (alone) don’t do it.

    The intensely tender and intimate narratives in text he has included read like a work of literary fiction, but are all too real for those living these stories. The man himself is serene, quietly quick witted, lovely and abundantly sincere, and the room was filled with reverence.

    After an embrace with David, David said to Eugene

    Wow, that’s too much..

    EUGENE: It is too much..

    DAH: You have to believe you make a difference, putting a brick in the wall at least, and trying. I can’t think of a more noble thing when it comes to photography.


    DAH: I’ve got one of these online things, and they are influenced by people like you. And because of this community, someone donated 5K..I don’t even know this person in person.. I’d be so honored if you Gene, Jim (James N. was in attendance) would be on my board; I know you appreciate many kinds of photography..we’ll get some people at Aperture. I know that it’s not a big deal, but maybe we’ll help some of these people.

    cookie break..

  • ERICA,

    You have to stop eating :):):)…I cannot wait to read the end of the report….

    Seems like another wonderful and magical night…Gene and Jim are very special individuals…wish I had been there….

    We want more Erica….no more cookies!!!!!


  • PANOS,

    I especially like your first and last picture of the kids…


  • DAH is introducing Bruce Gilden

    DAH: Bruce Gilden is not someone I know so well. I’m thinking when Bruce goes to Alaska, I can’t wait to see what he’ll do..

    BRUCE: I’m not going to Alaska anymore, I’m going to…

    DAH: See, I said I don’t him so well…He attacks people with his camera, we all love them (the images)

    BRUCE: We don’t ALL love them!

    DAH: But he’s the warmest, nicest, family guy, a humanist..

    BRUCE: You better stop NOW!

    Bruce comes to the front to start his slideshow, DAH sits down

    DAH: Take as much time as you want..

    BRUCE: Of course I will; you think I’m gonna listen to you?

    So this is the man, funny, in your face, playful and breathing his own sort of interconnectedness into the room.

    He says in 1968 he started photographing, and took to heart what Capa said, if it’s not good enough, you’re not close enough. He works on long, extended projects, but gave his narration of the same in quick spotty bursts.

    So here on the screen is the image of a man on the beach, holding up a basketball with one finger. Bruce says, I used to be really good at basketball, I could jump crazy high, but I could never have done that. I watched this guy for over a minute, holding that ball, and I finally got up the nerve to go over to him and ask about it (this I find oddly paradoxical, this man of incredible nerve, finding difficulty in the approach) and of course the answer was that there was a hole in the ball…

    BRUCE: For someone who doesn’t like to talk to people, I strike up a lot of converstations. It’s because I’m comfortable with THESE kind of people.

    BRUCE: I believe when you go to a new place, photograph right away, because it’s fresh for you. I have a schedule when I photograph, I wake up early and go out and shoot, have breakfast and then go out again.

    BRUCE: My pictures are symbolic; I like the viewer to make up little stories about them.

    Now in the slideshow it’s 1984, and he’s shooting NYC, and he still is..

    BRUCE: Backgrounds are very important for me..”

    These bits of information come peppered in between quirky commentary, possibly irreverent at times, potentially the kinds of musings that might make you wince a little if you are unaccustomed to his breed of humor, but are tempered with fine art references..In a short slideshow, he alluded to Gaugin, Chagall and Bacon.

    BRUCE: I have to live with these pictures, so I have to make up stories about them.

    To me, the photos seem as if they are effortless outcroppings, but Bruce reveals about an image of a man lying on the sidewalk among the legs of passerbys, that it took him about a half of an hour to get the shot. He said he had to keep jumping up and going back down to the ground, because if he had laid down, the people would have gone around him too and he wanted them in the frame.

    Interestingly, he said he sometimes brought his subjects bottles of drink; Sake when he was working on GO.

    At the end of his slideshow, to Bruce

    DAH: That was absolutely perfect.

    One more installment..

  • But Eric, they are double chocolate vegan things..

  • Thank you
    i really thank you for the feed back…!

  • OK ERICA….I understand!!!!

    I am sitting here actually exhausted after a long day…just waiting for the next post from you….love the detailed reporting….just warn me…should I stay up all night and get myself cookies as well????


  • PANOS,

    I am impressed…you hardly stop….I wanted to restart this week but this has been a miserable week here…no power around the city for most of the week after last week-end storm…all gyms closed…no way of working on my essay…. All I did was to think about titles as David has been saying it is critical…. Have a few….kind of hard to come up with a catchy tittle when this is not your native language…I might ask our writer (and photographer :) Bob to react to a few proposals….I know Lance is also good at titles so my short list will come….


  • Lassal,

    Yes, it all works out in the end.

    DAH, sometimes you totally flip me with your comments. You are a really, really good guy and the best teacher I have ever had.

    I am back in Arkansas; arrived Friday a.m. after an overnight flight and arrival at 7:50 a.m. Off balance, crashing for four hours, spending the rest of the day in a haze, wondering why I am here.

    Then I wake up this morning and see his smile and know.

    I am back at bachelor #1’s home, out in the country with the most wonderful light and air. Left my ex-husband in Maui, after only three days visit–first time I have seen him since March. I am beginning to realize the nature of love–minus the constraints of boxes formed from childhood. Love, don’t you just love it?

    I have not been able to keep up with the comments due to traveling but the brief overview I do in airports and now kind of fill me in.

    Oh, by the way, I bought a Dodge Charger, and it is so hot! Black, sleek and stealth. I hit 100 mph in two car lengths and didn’t even know it–thought I was going maybe 80. The car salesman in the back was whooping and hollering and was so excited that we actually hit 100 on an interstate during rush hour. Can’t wait to pick her up on Monday. The Black Leopard….to travel the highways of the mainland when I visit.

    I am coming to NYC on October 3 (not by car as it is a long drive and the parking is awful) and really look forward to the show of student work and meeting Bob Black and his family and whomever else is going. Lost track of who is going but really looking forward…



    Tender series. How amazing it will be when you edit this whole project and we see the juxtaposition of the many sides of Venice Beach that you have found! If I had to pick a favorite from the “Dark Kids” series it would be “tough kid smiling.” That just sings!


  • DAH: Marie asked me awile ago why not offer my workshop at home, and I thought to make it the kind of workshop that I wished I could have taken. So that’s what I do now, and I have 12 students here with me in my home..It’s gotta be one of the hardest workshops anyone can take. I don’t tell them to do anything, I just mirror who they are. They have 4 to 5 shooting days, which come down to 3 days of misery, to 2 days of shooting because they have 3 days of musing, figuring out what to do. This was the tardiest class, late, truant…but let’s see what they did. I’m proud of them.

    Right off the bat I was stuck that in some pieces there was audio now, recorded by the photographer, embracing the whole move toward MM. The work was everything from playful to tight to gorgeous to dreamy to intimate and amazing with a sadness and an almost theatrical sense of disconnectedness. Here in last bit of my running sentence, I’m talking aboutthe powerful work of one fine photographer named Ashe..Dah said later of this work that it was “incredibly interpretive”. In the moments when I watched DAH watching the slideshows, I saw his joyful bouncing dance, I saw a happy man..caring, concerned and engaged..

    DAH: I couldn’t really leave the building during the workshop, someone could freak out at any point and call or come back, and I had to be here for them..

    One of the photographers the house seemed to enjoy was Nicholas, who seemingly has found a great influence in Gilden. His series, I believe, was called Wall Street Paranoia. I checked out Bruce as he watched this, if I am not mistaken, I think I saw a toss of the head, and a smile..afterwards, I talked with Bruce about N’s work briefly, he handed an economical compliment, saying that N was good with the foreground..’you know, like putting a pole in front of someone’…

    What more? I got a kiss on the cheek from Eugene, shared a brief glass of bubbly with his beautiful wife. Got to hang out more with Anna B, and my dear Mike. Got to talk more with lurker Joel (come out of hiding!) who I first met at LOOK, and the view from the roof was beautiful and clear. A perfect night, really…wish you ALL could have been there.


    You have done us all proud. Many thanks for your detailed and conscientious report. What a woman of parts you are…


    We WERE/ARE all there…because of you and your wonderful narrative! Knowing how impossible it would ever be for me to get up those stairs to DAH’s loft, it is particularly sweet for me to see, hear and feel it all through your yes, ears and heart. Thank you, dear one, for sharing this precious gift with all of us here on the blog.


  • Make that…”through your eyes” not through your yes! Although your YES to life is what brought us there in the first place!!!


  • Patricia,

    There is an elevator. I don’t remember any area that you could not navigate at DAH’s loft. Unless he moved into another one that has stairs–seems like I remember something about him getting another apartment when he moved back in…?


  • Dear All,

    Sorry for taking so long to reply to many of your kind words and feedback about my Olympic Nights piece.

    Erica….I’m glad you thought they were brought together meaningfully. This was the challenge I faced when I layed all 120(!) rough edit images out on my floor and thought “what on earth do I do with these?!”. Using audio was ineviatble really to “tie” them together. I find audio pieces frustrating and fascinating but they can really give a life to a series if put together the right way. For anyone who hasn’t see the masterworks at MediaStorm, please go to….

    Patricia/Bob B/Ana Y…..Thanks for your thoughtful comments. I’m constantly trying to battle to put people there with me in my photos. Sometimes in works, sometimes it doesn’t. I think it put you there with me this time ;)

    Sidney A…Thanks for the editor’s critical eye. I must admit that I did not fully translate these myself. I’m getting there but I still need help from my wonderful girlfriend who acts as my translator sometimes! I’ll take the fall though ;)


  • PANOS…

    “Dark Kids”…damn…you keep doing it!!

    you remain the best example here on this forum of staying loose…i can’t wait to help you edit this work…there is such a fine line between loose and sloppy, art and snapshot, detached and sentimental…you are walking all of the “fine lines” and some might have a hard time with your work and not see the difference between a snapshot and an exquisite photograph in your offerings ..but i do….

    just terrific new work….

    cheers, david

  • CATHY…

    “Blues, Booze, and BBQ” by Mike Young is a book i have been mentoring for about 2 years…Mike was a student of mine in Mexico and i wrote a story about him way back at the beginning of this blog…so, Mike started this project on the blues in his native Mississippi and i have stayed close to the project all along and pushed Mike hard, edited tight…i think he is about ready to publish..we produced his slide show just a few days ago…the post of his book under “Movies” is just a “teaser” with just a few of the pictures from his body of work…Muddy Waters provides the soundtrack…

    cheers, david

  • SEAN…

    i swear i cannot find the Olympic Nights again please please??


    Interesting last remark from you David regarding Panos.

    “some might have a hard time with your work and not see the difference between a snapshot and an exquisite photograph in your offerings ..but i do”

    I was thinking about this the other day…I remember when you were giving out assignments you mentioned that we could all “be there” as you worked with the various photographers.

    I am DEFINITELY interested in knowing more about what it is you are seeing in Panos…I would like to see his work thru your eyes. What in particular you like. Perhaps you two could pull a couple of his “yes” images and a couple of “no” images and explain the difference…or something like that?

  • DAVID…

    THANK GOODNESS YOU didn’t shoot it :)) !!! I’m sure Mike won’t be offended by this but I did not see anywhere that this was not YOUR work and if pressed I was going to have to tell you that this was the weakest work I’d ever seen of YOURS…especially since I had just looked at the Nairobi work before seeing it! haha ;0)

    As student work it’s great though! Way to go Mike…


    I continue to work hard on my self portraits/daily life project. Almost every day I take more photos for it, most of which never make my initial cut. But I now have 58 images that, to my mind, are strong possibilities for inclusion. Some are different versions of the same scene or action. I need help deciding which of these–if any–to include. There are now so many images that I’ve given up on sequencing, that is until we do another serious edit. I know you can’t really do an edit until Digital Railroad is set up for us, but I just wanted you to see where I am right now.

    Today Ed suggested I pattern this series on the Declaration of Independence. Don’t know if this will work but I felt it was worth a try.


    I invite you to check this out too and offer feedback. I value everyone’s opinions.


  • DAVID again…

    I looked again and see his name is on the title page but didn’t know who he is or the story behind why his movie is there…so for all I knew (without your explanation) he was the one who was being photographed or something like that. Maybe it should say Blues, Booze… BY Michael Young. Especially since it’s on YOUR movie page with the writing by YOU. Needs some clarification I think…

    Not for us but for others who may find it.


    I would encourage Michael (AND ALL) to look at A Time Not Here by our friend Norman Mauskopf… exquisite work related to “Booze and Bbq”

  • oh and PANOS…

    My favorite “dark kid” is #3.

  • CATHY…

    the byline on the headline of the Blues Booze and BBQ show clearly says by Michael Loyd Young…

    i have none of my work under the Movies section…but i may post some slide shows soonest….

    you asked about what i see in Panos’ work..well, i have written several times exactly why, done an on line edit and produced a Venice Beach slide show for Look3 which has been under the same Movie section as Mike Young’s piece since June…but i will quickly re-explain again for you…

    Panos is doing what i try to get all of my students to do…mirror their lives..get into it and let us “feel” what the subject is about rather than merely “look at it”…

    simply put: live it , breathe it, be it.

    i will take this honesty in photography any day over trite professionalism or “mannered” photography or the boring didactic…

    i like Venice Beach for exactly the same reasons that i am producing the Mike Young book..and the reason why i love the work of Patricia…all three photographers doing the same thing…Mikes lives and breathes Blues the same way Panos lives and breathes Venice Beach in the same way that Patricia is looking in the mirror ..very different human beings…very different photographers…very different styles… but all three coming to the very same CONCLUSION….

    as per your request, i will go back and pick my favorites from “Dark Kids”..posting in a few minutes..

    cheers, david

  • CATHY…

    OMG Cathy, it most clearly says exactly what it should say and exactly what you say it should say: Blues, Booze and BBQ by Michael Loyd Young….how more clear could it be???

  • CATHY…

    rough edit (loose first edit) for “Dark Kids”…

    1,2,4,5,10..with maybe 1 and 10 very best

  • CATHY…

    “A Time Not Here” sits on my coffee table at all times


    i will look at your work with fresh eyes in the morning…this boy needs to sleep…

    hugs, david

  • CATHY…

    oh, now i see what you mean..or think you mean…the word “by” is not actually there that what you mean??

    well, as i look at my book collection i do not see the word “by” on anyone’s book..there ARE some assumptions in authorship…

    i am looking right now at:

    “For Whom the Bell Tolls”
    Ernest Hemingway

    do you think that title pages implies the book is ABOUT Hemingway???

    ok, to bed…but, i will return to fight another day!!!

    peace, david


    Thank you so much, not just for your hospitality… but for making a night like last night happen. I don’t have much to add to Erica’s report… my heart was broken hard and permanently by Gene’s current project (War is Personal), and I laughed and was renewed by Gilden’s work… two quintessential “photographer’s photographers”… Bravo, bravo, bravo!

    You know this better than I do, but this is a very special thing you have built (or I would guess you would say, we have built) and I just want to say I feel privileged to be a part of it, of this…

    Someone should be writing all this down…

    I think I’m going to switch to 8×10… good move, do you think? Maybe I should go all Petzval on things… I figure I’m nuts anyway…

  • David….Here’s the link again….

    This work isn’t related at all really to my environmental work, but was more of a ‘something to keep me busy’ whilst the Olympics was on. I always like to working on SOMETHING, otherwise I get a little restless!

    Hope you enjoy.


  • Panos

    the fisrt one pictures is outstanding!


    Glad you’re back. Excellent your last pictures.


    If you cloud compare your photography to book wich one it will be? How you feel it? You are Hemingway of photography? I wish to be nabokov or John Irving.


  • DAVID,

    I happened across your post regarding backup somewhere above.

    I have things backed up until about two weeks ago … small lapse and i am on the road right now, literally … but yes, I am still on it and as i wrote sometime ago, i really should not be the only one doing this for history’s sake. Michael C? Man, keeping up here is not easy … I suspect it is as hard to keep up with you as it is this blog ;-))

    mmmm, greek coffee and … what the hell are these sweets, taste like crap … but i love the coffee, go figure?

    young tom on syros

  • Erica, that was wonderful, thanks for all the installements from the DAH loft story…

    David, I read what you answered Cathy, I think we all understand the stance you talk about.

    Yet, I think Cathy’s question still stands. Can you go at one picture (from Panos, Patricia, or anyone else, my own post here is not really in reaction to their work) and “empty your bag” on what and why that picture is succesful, concretely (I mean not too stream of consciousness-ly)? what works in the compo, the timing, the subject, etc….In any way you find most probing, as a lone image, or as it stands within the essay, or within the stance of the photographer.

    I see Cathy’s question relating to her frustration at too many one-liners (if not just one word) paid to one member posting a link by others. She has a point.

  • “A perfect night, really…wish you ALL could have been there.”


    Thank you soooo much for the report. It was kind of being there too!! You were relating the friendly chatting, the things you shared…. just great!
    Sure you had a great night there, and sure we all would have loved to be with you too!

    Thanks DAH for make it happen ;-) and hope someday I can be one of the present persons there!!



  • ALL

    I’d love to read all of the comments and the report from Erica, but it is just not possible at this time. I will have to work right through until deadline tomorrow, or I won’t manage it.

    But …
    Need your help – Some of you were talking about Vodka a while ago. I have no clue about vodka.
    Booked the flight to Helsinki yesterday after a long chat with Riitta. I will stay there for a whole week because of weather instabilities. I hope I’ll get my portraits!!!
    Need them. And Riitta + Sampsa, her boyfriend, are so superkind to take me up for the time and provide a nice sleepingplace on a soft & big sofa. I am very thankful for that!! So I just found out they are very fond of vodka, and quite the experts …

    Please, could anybody tell me what to take them? I have some names … Zytnia,
    Stolichnaya (which one??)
    Elit …

    I am lost. But I need a good present.
    Could anybody help?

    (signing off again – this job is just killing me)

  • I like; Smirnoff Zubrowka Absolut Chopin Bols and Siwucha but this one you don’t buy in any shop only polisch highlanders make it (best way to loose your mind).
    I dissuade “finlans” should’nt bear wather to Lake we say in poland :)
    but mostly I prefer rum and gin.
    ahoy sailors :)

  • It should be water not wather

  • äh … Marcin,
    is that one single name???
    “Smirnoff Zubrowka Absolut Chopin Bols” ??
    So this one or the mind loosing one??

  • ha ha ha

    Lassal, no it’s names of various vodkas,
    smirnoff, zubrowka (light vodka), Absolut, Bols etc.
    Siwucha will loose your mind :) my unce make delicious siwucha.
    But I am not expert on this.

  • :)))
    MARCIN …

    If they loose their mind they might throw me out of the house in the middle of a freezing finnish night… Too dangerous!

    And Riitta is a photographer too – met her in Tuscany on DAH’s workshop. She should not get blind either …

    So what do I do?? :)))))


    Anybody else knows of a SAFE (!) vodka that is kinda good? :))
    Riitta & Sampsa have to:

    1. survive
    2. stay sane
    3. not get blind
    4. enjoy it


    let me come back to the commercial photography thing later … I would like to formulate this a little better so no missunderstanding comes up.

  • PANOS …

    about the blog and not being “able” to stay away while this assignment is killing me (and I still have no coffee …)

    You are so damn right !!! … sigh …

  • Frozen Stoli , Gherkins and Rye Bread , Sunday night ritual round our house.


    bless you…many thanks…if this is becoming too much of a job for you however, perhaps we can pass the burden on to someone else OR maybe there is some automatic way of doing it??


    hmmmm, i will have to think about that one…waxing eloquent about the merits of one single photograph or a visual “analysis” would i doubt enlighten either Cathy or you…that is what happens in “camera clubs” where “rules” get applied and then everyone starts thinking they must go out and “reproduce” what someone said was GOOD about any given picture…

    besides, an element that i may like in one picture, i may not like in another…it would depend on the overall juxtaposition of elements and the emotional response thereof…

    critique is often/mostly instinctive …instinctive based on viewing lots of work, and just a GUT REACTION to an image …surely as INSTINCTIVE AS SHOOTING THE PHOTOGRAPH IN THE FIRST PLACE…i never tell a photographer exactly what to shoot…i want them to be instinctive/personal…the same goes for critique…

    i never KNOW what a good picture will be, but i know it when i see it….great pictures are SURPRISES…great pictures trigger something visceral that is hard to describe in words…that is why they are great pictures!!!

    i have a feeling that if i took one picture and broke it down into the “whys” of being “good” that Cathy and you might be more confused than ever…particularly on line…in person editing, choosing etc is so so different than what can be done here..some here who have had me edit and choose in person seriously know the difference and have said so…

    if you had to do an analysis of why the Mona Lisa was “good”, what would you say beyond “it is about the look in her eyes”….????

    and then if you wrote about that on your blog and then everyone started painting portraits trying to “get a look in the eyes”, your critique might have been self defeating…

    i do know this for sure…photographers trying to “LEARN PHOTOGRAPHY” in the same linear way that they CAN learn about how to repair the engine on a 747 are in for disappointment…repairing the engine of a 747 can be TAUGHT…there is a PROCEDURE…only one way to clean the injectors for example..hairline cracks in the blades mean replacement…pure and simple…linear..

    many photographers are guilty of trying to “figure it out” when what they really need to do is “shoot it out”….

    among others, the essays of Patricia, Rafal, Panos, Kyunghee, Mike, Audrey, Erica “sensitize” us one way or the other about their subjects…there is NOT much INFORMATION in any of them….there is “personality” in all of them…

    my usual response either verbal or in my head when i see what i feel is a great photograph is quite simply a resounding YES YES YES…

    cheers, david

  • ERICA,
    nice job on your friday night report, a cool and thorough job (waw, you sure took notes!) ;)))
    How was the “after-fiesta?”

    I left too early (had to wake up at 5:30am + I didn’t know anyone & seemed that groups were already well into each other), and missed James N., though I talked a while with Stanley Greene about a common friend (& his recent work :)

    Great thing you have going there David! Thanks.

    Going to Fire I. Have a great sunday ALL!


    Panos is my witness….. I told you that the first and your last pictures were the very best :):):):)…. My god, maybe I am becoming able to edit someone else’s work :):):)….

    I also thought it was a good serie.


    Thanks again for your detailed writing of the event…Almost felt we were there….



  • SIMON…

    thanks for the Typepad link..i should have seen it before….working on it!!

  • HERVE…

    just to make one more quick point..and it is probably the best “practical point” with regard to “good pictures”…this was illustrated clearly and best with my last class..and all classes…and all critique…

    when a fine photograph would come up on the screen, everyone in the class would go “aha”..ALL would agree on the very “best” ones…a collective “yes, that is it”…visceral gut reaction…the MEDIOCRE PHOTOGRAPHS REQUIRED DISCUSSION and were usually ELIMINATED FROM THE SHOW…in other words, if you have to talk about a picture too much, it probably “ain’t gonna work”… i have seen exactly the same discussions/reactions on major curated shows,during magazine layout sessions and at book structure meetings…that is just the way it is…

    cheers, david

  • DAH

    how did I do?


    hope you didn’t eat too many cookies waiting for the last installment..I think I myself ate too many writing it, I feel gross this a.m.!


    You were there? I wish we had said hello..(“I didn’t know anyone & seemed that groups were already well into each other”) please please, you, anyone else out there, when we finally have a chance at an in person meeting, come introduce yourself, the idea of not meeting someone from here makes me a bit sad. I am sure at times the ‘groups’ seem closely knit, but don’t let that stop you. can I ask what you look like, maybe I remember seeing you..I’m tall, dark hair.. was in a little white dress, knee socks, blue scarf for part of the night..Nancy said I looked like a cheerleader, but I saw a pic Kelly took of me and I’m thinking more like Alice in Wonderland!


    happy to meet you on Oct. 3rd…


    thank you and you are QUITE welcome, it was fun to play reporter..


    I am so glad you feel that way..and yes, there is an elevator and access after the steps outside, which are fewish and wide..I think it is possible for you to experience all, minus the roof.


    you must know Vodka, tell Lassal what to bring! And seriously, consider borrowing my 4×5 and shooting it handheld as M. Gowland its designer himself did..I think you’ll be very happy with the results if you do it as we negotiated, fixed distance..

    HERVE, ANA :)


    i would have been happy to introduce you around…we have another show coming up on Oct 3…look for the invitation here…next time, if you come, make sure i know who you are very clearly…in a crowded room and after an outrageously intense week and the outrageously intense last minute editing that we do in order to even make these programs “happen”, it is very easy for me not to catch your name if we meet and relate it to the blog…

    in any case, i am pleased you enjoyed the program…and you are welcomed to stop by any time and see what we do during these workshops….

    cheers, david

  • ERICA…

    i was blown away by your report….without your note taking and clear assessment, i would have forgotten much of it!!!

    the one thing that would be enlightening even for you would be if you came by sometime during the week when we were actually putting it all together…to see the photographers struggle for an idea, to see the daily critique, to watch the “miracle” of discovery…and , yes, to see the chaos that precedes every powerful presentation…chaos turned into the very show you so eloquently described…

    i wish we had more time to chat friday evening…you know how it is when you are the host of the party…i spend a lot of time just making sure things are ok with everyone..

    anyway, perhaps we meet sometime this week???

    cheers, david

  • DAH

    I would love to come by during the week of the next workshop to see process, and I will, thank you, tell me when is a good time, anything after 5 usually works for me, any day..

    but what I need to know from you is if there is a clear deadline yet for the EPF upload, I am scrambling to get things together, I need to manage my time wisely as I am really not nearly ready, have LOADS to do. And I really don’t want to screw up and not be ready to my own standards.

    Re: this week, do I need to have stuff to show you or are we just chilling?

    You are/were a gracious, expansive (scattered!) host. You do better than anyone could expect in such circumstances (I didn’t get much time with Marie, either, but that is how parties go)..I am glad the report was up to snuff. Scribbling in the dark was a challenge indeed, but I have learned to read even the worst of my own writing. And still, I saw / felt every image, so nothing lost in playing reporter..

  • OH, and this was left by CASEY (of Slideluck Potshow) at the end of the last thread..I meant to mention that he and Alys were there too, very excited to not miss any of the show.

    CASEY, as to your first sentence, ALMOST :) You have to look for the new posts, they come without warning..but well done in getting this far!

    Hey All,

    I finally figured out how to negotiate DAH’s site! Don’t know why it took me so long to get to the meat of the melon.

    Anyway, great workshop/party last night David! There was some strong student work, lots of interesting folks and the contrast between Bruce Gilden’s presentation and Eugene Richards couldn’t have been starker- highlighting the breadth of possibilities out there.

    I actually have an update on Jason P. Howe. He just stayed with me here in NYC for three days. His face is almost completely healed, his spirits are high, and he’s up on a farm for two weeks working on an outline for an autobiography he has been asked to pitch. We’re having a book-signing party for him on Monday, September 29th, at my friend’s place in the Lower East Side, GalleryBar. It’s the same place Ashley Gilbertson did his book launch and incredible exhibition.

    Jason jokes that the beating was the best possible thing that could have happened in terms of getting the attention of photo editors.

    Anyway, for those who haven’t already seen it, I put up a pretty extensive post about Perpignan on the Slideluck Potshow Network site:


    Posted by: Casey Kelbaugh | September 20, 2008 at 04:43 PM

  • ok, I think i am caught up….

    ERICA – thank you for the recap. i wish i could have been there…
    – but will be there in 2 weeks…. looking forward to seeing you then!

    PANOS – the new work is wonderfully loose and intimate. i love #3 and 10. can’t wait to see the final edit of this project.

    gotta go, my sunday political shows are beginning… then FOOTBALL. XO

  • ERICA…

    there is NOT a deadline or EPF…you have plenty of time….i have a very clear idea of who is doing what and i will not let anything “slip through the cracks”…however, just to make sure, i will create a post soonest detailing again all that will be required, and where to post on Digital Railroad etc etc long before the jury meets…

    this is all about personal development of projects that i know about, have followed carefully, and are linked here either by assignments given or from the work of students in my classes….random links and presentations from photographers i do not know are also welcomed…

    by the way, you may not even know that all of the students in the class whose work you viewed are members of our forum..if you view the student list, i think only Anna B. is a name you would know from comments posted here…but, as we all know, most readers just do not write…but many are doing a lot of serious work unknown to the other readers here…

    cheers, david

  • DAH

    yes, I do understand…maybe what I should have asked is if there is an approximate estimate of when the jury will goal is to have a MM piece together for that, which means I need to learn some things before that, and as I am so not a tech person, I need time..

    I love that there are so many people who are a part of the community, whether they post or not..I do, however, want to meet them all :)

    GINA, yea!

  • ERICA…

    i am GUESSING that the jury would meet in mid- November…that should give everyone enough time to have their “act together”…

    my biggest decision, and it is partly based on how much funding will actually come in, is whether to give one or two large stipends or several smaller ones…i can think of advantages and disadvantages to both..the other thing is whether i can just give out a stipend whenever i think it is warranted…and this may even be a legal issue..i do not know for sure…i do not know if i can just pass out stipends whenever i want..there are fairly strict legal rules on funds created under the IRS 501c3 charter, so it looks like i must have lunch with a lawyer….

    cheers, david

  • DAVID…

    Running out for a while. Then editing and getting some new work online to show here…TODAY.

    If Booze, Brews titling is clear to you then great…BUT what happens is that the title comes up without any photographers name for several seconds and THEN his name comes up. Now that I know this is his name is is obvious (duh) but before seeing any images it is not super clear that this is the NAME of the photographer…could be part of the title…Just saying that someone new to this site and not part of the blog could be confused…since it’s YOUR site and you have done the writing and in the beginning there is NO name attached for several seconds.
    Just my take on it…only letting you know my experience with that show was not one of clarity….so suggesting there might be a way to improve.


    I hesitate to jump into this discussion because I am working under a tight deadline, but I just wanted you both to know that you are not alone in sometimes being mystified by David’s sensibilities (and not just his, in my case, but much of the art photography world’s). And I appreciate and share your desire to hear more about “why?”… But I also think I understand David’s dilemma, and why it has to be hands on and in context.

    A long time back I figured out that it was most unlikely that my own personal kind of photography… what I have done up to now… would ever score a ‘hit’ with David or many of the other folks on this forum. Late last night when David wrote: “i will take this honesty in photography any day over trite professionalism or “mannered” photography or the boring didactic…”, I got that sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach that he was contrasting the work of say Panos or Patricia to my own.

    I admire David greatly as a photographer and even more as a teacher, and it’s natural that I would like to see the world of photography more through his eyes, and also gain his approval (let’s be honest)… And I confess that one of the things that this forum has done from time to time is make me doubt my own work, and want to do something… ‘more like so-and-so’s’… There’s a fine line between being ‘influenced’, ‘stimulated’ or ‘redirected’ by what we see and trying to imitate or reproduce it. I’ve had to wrestle with this… and I can tell from your comments and some of your work that this is something you occasionally are wrestling with. But I think that’s a natural and inevitable process.

    Also, those of us clamoring for David’s critiques, insights, and (dare I say it…?) possible approval… maybe need to remember the sheer volume of photography this guy has to look at, day in and day out, and has looked at day in and day out, over more than four decades…

    My own tentative answer is just to shoot more, get further into my own interests… and hopefully try to get beyond my own (somewhat rigid, I now realize) conditioning as a photographer… instead of ‘trying’ to take certain kinds of pictures, just to get lost in the process of photographing, until something new and different happens… even though I am not particularly ‘loose’, I understand what ‘loose’ means and when it is happening… and when, as may occasionally happen if I’m lucky, I come up with something that I feel is ‘wow!’ instead of ‘it’s getting there…’, then I don’t really care what anybody else thinks. But mysteriously, it’s likely that others may also think ‘wow!’ Or at least ‘yes…’ But for me to get there means shooting and more shooting, getting beyond taking all the conditioned pictures and approaches and effects in my head, trying new stuff, abandoning conscious control, getting lost in that viewfinder, forgetting about what I’m ‘trying’ to do… maybe that is a kind of ‘loose’?

    I hope this doesn’t sound preachy to either of you, Cathy or Herve, because I’m really sitting on your side of the aisle in this situation, and wanted you to know you are not alone.

  • David – I emailed you a comp—just wanted to make sure you got that.

  • CATHY….

    MY site is totally about the work of OTHER photographers…always has been…

    there has never been MY work under the Movies section…the only place i have very little work is under Galleries or sometimes Work in Progress but primarily on the Magnum website…

    anyway, i tried to explain to you how titles/authors are generally displayed on books, movies etc etc…they are done this way almost always…the author name faded in is the way most people recognize who the author is ,.but , maybe after the title on the header and before the show starts , i will make yet another byline so there will be no confusion for you and perhaps others…

    i look forward to your new work….i hope you do not confuse me!!


  • DAH wrote:

    “this is all about personal development of projects that i know about, have followed carefully, and are linked here either by assignments given or from the work of students in my classes….random links and presentations from photographers i do not know are also welcomed…”

    Right when you asked people to volunteer for assignments (around may) and even if I was not one of the few people you named for doing it, I went to Senegal and started working on mine. I made the first approach to my subject which required some permissions and several meetings to get the trust of people involved. Then I started shooting and came back with the first part of the assignment done. While in Perpignan I tried to show it to you and know your opinion, to see if it may work, the things I need to improve… all of that. But I wasn’t lucky and you couldn’t see it and give me your opinion. Just as planned I will continue the work and will finish it with a second part of the job that will involve a deeper approach into the subject.

    I know you said we all will have a place for our work on Digital Railroad. Just wanted to make sure that you know that even if you did not see it, I’ve been working on it and plan to keep on working until it is finished.

    Un abrazo


    GOOD lap shooting! Lots of love in the photograph: well seen.

    See link for some of my recent pictures, first photograph taken yesterday in Manchester, England. A bit of knee shooting.

    Photo number 3 is for PANOS.

    Good light,

    Mike R

  • SIDNEY….

    great comment!!!

    and the way you are thinking is EXACTLY the thinking process i try to set up with every photographer i mentor…

    surely, you should not try to be Panos, nor should Panos be you…that is the whole point…i just want to get the best YOU out of YOU…that is all…you may not think so, but i totally understand you and where you are coming from and your aesthetic and the reasons for your aesthetic…and even though it will take much longer on line to get you “jump started” than if we had some time together, i am committed to giving it a try… to push you into your NEXT STEP without re-wiring your hard drive…

    many thanks always for your insights and your ability to articulate clearly the current forum “scenario”….

    cheers, david

  • MIKE R

    Adore the street dancers shot! You go guy!!! And Panos’ shot is spectacular! Like your eye…


  • ANA….

    i have no idea why i did not see your Senegal work in Perpignan….a great oversight on my part since i spent more time with you than almost anyone!!! i literally edited every single forum photographer who brought me work that i knew about…how did we miss on this one??? i sat there with you for more than an hour on that last day and i do not recall you saying “David, look at this”…well, maybe you were just too polite…and sometimes i just miss the “hint”…so sorry, i would love to have seen your Senegal (one of my favorite countries) and i will make sure you are fully aware of where to have it on Digital Railroad so we can at least have an on line discussion..and your work will be fully considered for EPF…

    abrazos, besos, david

  • PATRICIA, thanks. I photographed the dancers after just being stopped and searched under the anti-terrorism law! On the other side of the town hall building (in the background) is the location of the Labour Party political conference and apparently I’d pointed my lens in the direction of where the delegates were staying. It was no problem; very polite and I got a copy of the stop and search notice to show if I was stopped again. shows 3 photographs taken yesterday (including the dancers).

    Mike R

  • david

    What you think about called “art photography” where images were created like Rinke Dijkstra, or Shindy Sherman, Loretta Lux ect.
    It mean something to you?
    Did you have students who wanted shoot very conceptual or contemporary way?


  • DAH,
    can we submit ” updates” from last year’s workshop or not ?


    well, the three photographers you mentioned (Sherman, Lux, Dijksta) are all portrait, they are one kind of conceptual photographer, but not the only kind….and i respect the work of all three although i must say i only know the bullfight portraits of Dijksta..maybe she has something more i do not know about..i will research more…

    when you see the slide show of my last class which will be posted soonest under Movies , you will see several conceptual photographers…

    i try to get all of my students and photographers i mentor to PUSH AWAY from “standard photojournalism” and into more conceptual work..but, i find that very few photographers can actually conceptualize…

    many photographers (maybe even most photographers) are totally terrified of their own creative freedom…

    having the freedom i give them to say what they want to say, leaves many realizing they have no idea what to say…

    what they may have wanted to say got buried back in their childhood, or they just cannot tap into their subconscious…

    most people have spent their adult lives having to fit into the “box”…getting them out of it is my job, and my most difficult job…

    however, the greatest reward i can have as a “guide” is when i see someone finally “light up” and trigger something deep down inside and allows them have their “voice”…

    i hope you will see at least some of this in the slide show upcoming…

    cheers, david

  • ERIC… yes im your witness…
    ( you do have a real “editors” eye … you totally
    matched DAH’s opinion… 1st & 10th… photo…
    although i was going with no2 or 3… agree with Gina & Michael R..
    & Patricia..
    & Marcin’s painter’s eye liked the no1…
    ( havent read all comments yet… making turkish coffee…
    right now…

    David… i know you are crazy busy with the workshop…
    but thank you again for having a minute to critique and EDIT…
    i feel honored and obliged to drive back to venice right after
    this coffee…

    ok… and once again for whoever missed my “DARK KIDS” link from last night…
    or high rez. below:

    ok… back reading the comments…. it seems that Erica, has a whole reportage… from last night…. let me check-e-roo……

    peace & hugs ( for now )

    9:20am, sunday, hel( L.A)


    of course, you may update…i am looking for fine photographers…this is not a contest….this is trying to find and support worthy photographers …period

    cheers, david

  • YOUNG TOM… are you in Syros…??????

    man…. shoot please ( for me ) … some snapshots,
    and send me a link… im a little homesick right now…
    although how can a “homeless” be “homesick”????
    lol… at my own expense right now…

    & Young Tom,
    thank you for backing up the blog…….


  • PANOS…

    i WANTED to like #3 also…but, i felt #1 and #10 did the same thing a bit better… i can see why #3 would appeal to some..i liked it too….but for me it is one of those pictures that looks good at first, but then wears thin finally in the context of your overall energy….i mean, if you have #1 (very painterly also) do you really need #3??? think of how you actually want this to appear in print..anyway, maybe i will change my mind by the time i get to L.A.!!

    even your critics HAVE to be totally amazed by your commitment and energy and drive and stick to it always approach to your Venice Beach…NOBODY is “on the case” as are you…

    do not let this go to your head….remember at all times…HUBRIS….

    remember, i show up in late November, so please have some small prints of all of your work ready to edit…can you do this??

    peace, david

  • ERICA:

    thanks for the great report…almost feel as if i were there….which i guess i will be next time….(want pics too to see)…


    yes, love the dark kids series too….more words for you privately :)))


    i’ve read all the comments i missed in last 2 day….and honestly (maybe it was the retreat, maybe it’s my increasingly changing idea/approach/state-of-mind to all the stuff coming down (efp, most notably), but i feel a bit of sadness this morning…not really sadness (im on a retreat joy high and hope to infect y’all) but it seems that so much suffering that is incurred here could be simplified….

    1) i saw the movie on the opening page and totally don’t understand Cathy’s concern…none of those movies (except the NG) contains DAH work and in fact, i read that movie section as the place others will see work generated by this blog or workshops….that’s pretty clear on the opening frame that says: Bs,Bs, BBQ: Michael Loyd Young…and the long quote from harvey (which i believe is from this blog when he was in the delta): it’s so clear this is Michaels work (Michael i enjoyed it very much and have lost totally the desire to write here more specifically, but let me just say that i really enjoy the story of this song…a form of music that has alot of personal connection to my life and family)…just dont get the problem…

    for the herve/cathy discussion on deciding on what constitutes imagery or strong work…also the discussion that Sidney has (related to this), i guess i am also at a complete loss as to why this comes up….David is a great photographer but also there is work that david gets and doesnt get, just as there is work that each of us get and dont get and some of this has to do with the specifics of what we “think” of as strong photography or what we “feel” as strong photography (image, story, content), but this shifts for all all people, all photographers…for both Herve and Sidney, i am actually a bit surprised…since both of you seem to have deep undersanding and appreication of Asia and India…Are you guys familiar with the Four Aims of Life?…From Sanskrit, the Hindu tradition define the 4 essences (from which everything else comes, including of course Buddhism) as (i wont be really pretentious by using the sanskrit: 1)our nescience (human ability to know things, 2) our self-centered “knowledge” (we know the world in the west through “I” — (the complete opposite of the western’s cognito ergo sum) which leads to our complete delusion 3) the training to unbreak our allusion and 4) the need to gather awakening not from one’s self but through one’s self…in other words, in India (and of course later through brahamnism, buddhism, jainism, taoism, etc) the fundamental understanding of “awareness/knowledge” is different…in other words, beginning with Descarte’s Cognito, in the west we take our understanding of truth (religion/science) as coming from “I”: our self-directed discoveries…but in Indian tradition, the I is actually the point as which only delusion is reached, so it’s in direct opposition to the west (many who love eastern philosophies, in india and far west, never fully understand this: they still try to understand through our own frame of reference…the essential paradox of these ideas is that in hoping to understand through our thoughts our awareness, our intellect, we will only continue to fail (suffer) to escape our delusions and confusions…well,, of course this is a total simplication but, i’ve been reading Heinrich Zimmer”s book “philosophies of india” and other works as i work on my own practice, but i think asking David to explain what is necessary good about patricia and panos’ work as a means for all three of you to find what is “good” about your is asking the wrong question…someone once asked me, “bob, how come you always love everyone’s work, especially when your own work is different…” i said: ” i dont know, i just love work that comes into me, and how things come into me are for a great variety of reasons…”….

    i think all 3 of you make some wonderful work and i also think all three of you often fight with yourself…especially visually…well, feel this often with cathy and sidney…i dont feel this with Herve, because when i see his work (in asia) it feels very calm and very strong and very confident and thus, it enters me…funny, his pictures speak to me much more than when he writes ;)))…it’s like he’s 2 people…Herve, are u a buddhist too?…i wonder….anyway, sidney there were pics i really liked in your parade series and as i’ve made a promise not to write criticially (i mean analysis) on the blog anymore (my personal pledge to myself), i’d love to meet in person some time…

    in the end, i think the attempt to make work that speaks to David will end in failure because it will not be work that speaks to you…i love and admire david as a photographer, but i dont think i’ve ever thought: im gonna make a picture to see if it will be appreciated by david. i want to make work that David see’s is my commitment to my life, as a member, to make work that i believe in, as a sign of commitment toward what i am…but, i think often the questions asked (questions always good), might take u further away from the heart that is, white lotus, emerging from the water…

    and lastly, a buddhist hero: Chekawa (1101-1175 CE)….from which many of the ideas of Tonglen come from….

    my take on EFP…

    Gain and Victory to Others,
    Loss and Defeat to Oneself


  • Hmmm… I am curious which “box” I am in… Yes… I remember Im torturing myself… I’m joking… :)

    I just wondering, Art world is very closed, and you have to exactly know that you make “art photography”.
    Art world is weird.
    But somehow I understand it.
    And definitely I am not able to disscus about without english language.

    All and David (you probably are bussy, but if you have time)

    I do almost everyday snapshots called “Details” or “no reason to go out there” :)
    If anyone have time to look at I post almost everyday. Just photography without reason. Like sketches to novel.

    hughs for all

  • BOB….

    many thanks for taking THIS ONE on!!! i feel as though i have said more or less the same thing many many times for the last year and a half and this philosophy of “being who YOU are” is my whole utter and entire philosophy… but you are so so much better at articulating it than i..

    OR, it is like my sons…if my brother, Uncle Gary says EXACTLY the same thing i do to them, then my boys LISTEN…

    thanks Uncle Bob…..

    cheers, david


    An interesting discussion developing here…I just returned from a hike and was thinking the entire time about the same things you and Sidney have written here and have a statement to make which may help clarify a few things…coming up right away.

    In the meantime…just one comment for Bob personally…

    “for both Herve and Sidney, i am actually a bit surprised…since both of you seem to have deep undersanding and appreication of Asia and India”

    Not sure why this was directed to them seperately…But if it was only based on their connnection to Asia, perhaps you are not aware of the past 13 years I have spent visiting/living in India? I think also when Herve and I have had discussions about Advaita Vedanta and the like…I shared about this recently under “War Photographer”… you have somehow missed the conversations.

    In any case I do have a Hindu story coming up in my next post. Hope you enjoy it! :))


    i wish you had numbers to identify..but, i liked :


    woman wall

    white walls

    woman mirror

    white woman


    where have you been hiding these pictures?? any of them from “Hometown”??? what is happening with Hometown???

    random pictures are never really random when you are coming from a particular consciousness…these all FIT together somehow…

    maybe the only problem i see with you Marcin, and i like you very much you know, is to FINISH what you start…please try to finish something…you are a talented photographer for sure….i just want to see you with a completed body of work…whatever you want, but totally finished…this is always absolutely the hardest part of being an artist…artists get passionate, but artists also get distracted and go for the next new passion…showing your passion in a complete manner will require you to put your head into the wind and suffer and get the dammed thing DONE!! hey, i hate the final process too, but it is 100% necessary…i say this to you only as a friend….please take it from that standpoint….

    fondly, david

  • Hi all!!!

    When you say:
    ‘having the freedom i give them to say what they want to say, leaves many realizing they have no idea what to say…

    what they may have wanted to say got buried back in their childhood, or they just cannot tap into their subconscious…

    most people have spent their adult lives having to fit into the “box”…getting them out of it is my job, and my most difficult job…’

    I joined the forum for the reasons you explain there.
    I was thinking to all theses things, and i was alone (this is hard to speak photography/philosophy, not everybody can speak that way).
    So when i discovered this blog, i was happy cause it was a great way to learn, and not being alone. I joined after seeing you in Perpignan, and, for me, the most important thing, and my reason to be there is LEARNING and SHARING about HOW TO GET OUT OF THE BOX??? Thank you very much for making it possible. We go faster and better when not alone…
    I would like to say you that for the moment, i have the need to work on personnal ‘archive’, and maybe stop photographying for a while…the need to breath…to come back with more love, more peace, more understanding; so i’ll stay on the blog, but please don’t mind if i’m not working on a real project for now, if i have nothing to show for the moment.

    thank you! It’s all about doing it MY WAY, that’s the most difficult…That is why i like your work (not everything-but i like your last serie ‘Dark Child’), but i respect a lot your work ’cause you’re photographying YOUR way.

    ;-) nice to talk with you!

    DAVID B.
    Yeah, i’m lucky, my darkroom is very well done. I’ll not use it soon, cause i must work on old photos, but someday…bored of digital…Yes, all this gear cost nothing nowadays; the big issue is time and motivation for making prints…

    Totally agree with you, the lack of $$$ can be a way to go deeper, being more creative.

    peace for all!!!!

  • David, not sure why we shoudl be confused. You rightfully encourage us to look at succesful photograph(er)s to see what has worked, what has not, study (not copy, as you wrote) them.

    I am sure we all do, but just for myself, I read books that talk about photographs, very rarely is it about dissecting every inch of the frame, like the race of an olympic winner. But definitely, they offer insights, about what is in the frame, outside of it too (cultural, literarure referneces and etc…). It never occured to me these become rules to follow to make a good picture.

    I also never got the impression than anyone here, you the first, thinks there is one way of taking pictures, ie. the DAH way (maybe some lurker, but by now, they must have left). I actually think this is what unites us, on the face of the so many idiosyncratic and simply different ways to approach taking a picture.

    What you are saying is that there is no tangible way for you to SPEAK ABOUT, let’s forget demonstrate, how someone’s picture becomes succesful in your eyes. Or maybe just not online?

    I read your comment about Grateful Dead! Sometimes we live things, and after we wonder ‘maybe i could have done something more serious’…I understand you…but sometimes it’s good to LIVE really things, maybe theses moments whithout camera make you feel the event better, and this is why your photos are so good??? Just a question…trying to compare your situation with mine in theses cases…

  • David

    I was painter for 15 years and I have 3 my own paintings now. I was sculptor as long as painter and I have no my own sculpture, I work on it last two weeks and still have nothing. I am photographer since four years and I have about 20 pictures to show. I was in morocco and I have three pictures from there, I worked at “hometown” and I have 15 pictures. I made mistake it should be work witout adress.
    everything I did or do is unfinished.
    unfinished is my second name.
    I know this “problem” long time.
    unfortunately I am who I am.
    I have childish mind, very chaotic.
    But I work on it.
    we’ll see

    Btw, I said it before, you know you can say anything you want to me, You don’t have to be gently, I appreciate.


    Great to read your remarks. I hope this conversation can be something we can enjoy and share in…for the good of all…not something to dread or feel sadness about. BOB I didn’t really get why you would be sad about anything that has the potential to “open” us or move us forward either as a group or individually.

    Here is the analogy that came to me on the hike this am. A Hindu story about people getting caught up in Maya (illusion) that for me seems to be a personal statement as to what I am doing here. There is the potential when reading this for others to think I am making some sort of judgement about THEM but I assure you when I am writing about the “villagers” in this story I AM REFERRING TO MYSELF ONLY. We all have our own paths here…I am describing mine…I invite all to read and join in the conversation. So here is the paraphrased story…some of you will know it already….

    A generous King (David) invites the entire village to his castle to share in his wealth. When the villagers enter the castle they partake of the food, wine and other offerings and no one ever makes it to the chamber of the King to receive his gifts. They get caught up in Maya and forget why they have come.

    I am right here in the Castle for the gifts our King David has to share and need to be clear (with myself) that I can’t go back to my childhood pattern of fearing to raise my hand to ask a question…because maybe the teacher won’t like the question or I’ll look dumb for asking it or someone won’t like me, etc…Maybe I am seen as a pain in the ass but if I can get into David’s head (as he says he strives to do with us) then I can’t worry about my personal feelings if he’s tough with me….or if any of you others are. I say what I say here because of my passion for photography and my desire to learn and grow. If anyone else here can gain something from what I say…GREAT. I know how much I have gained from being here so this doesn’t seem like the time to “shut up and behave myself” so to speak.

  • HERVE…

    “learning” about photography is not least , not “learning” about what you may be able to do or not do with regard to expressing yourself best with pictures…therefore the “ways of linear learning” cannot generally be applied…

    when i am in class and a picture comes up on the screen, i do often go through the visual elements and can easily describe what works or what does not work both aesthetically and technically…i do this certainly on the first and second days, but that discussion is certainly way way over by the last day..i think this is what you want…whenever i see you next, i will give it a try with your work…yes, it is difficult to re-create this kind of basic critique on line…the conversation between me and the photographer sitting right there in front of me talking about the same picture cannot be duplicated on line in any way that i can imagine…

    we do a lot here…we cannot do it all here…

    cheers, david

  • “i will take this honesty in photography any day over trite professionalism or “mannered” photography or the boring didactic…”, I got that sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach that he was contrasting the work of say Panos or Patricia to my own.

    Sidney, I feel your pain :-))))))))

    JOKING. Trust in yourself, man, no one can tell you and especially box you in. Remember, it’s all done in the spirit of conversation, I would not take David’s word as theorema. Just illustration to a point he is manking at the moment he is making it. Gee, Natl Geo is full of straight, nice professional photography. A lot straighter than Patricia’s Bob’s, or Panos’s…. :-)))), a lot more and by great photographers (not mannered, boring or ..what else did he say?).

    Where David has a point, is to deride mindless photography. Pictures that anyone can take. Bad, good, whatever. Photographs that have no special engagement from the photographer (and you can turn that around by making it your very own personal way to take pictures. Your intent/rebelliousness ruling over perceived inaneness).

    In any case, and certainly not talking for myself, we will know in 20 years, who made a nice run and who really held the pace (1). Atget wa a straight photographer, employed as such by the City of Paris and painters needing a backdrop (if I recall), before he was discovered a poet. Just a few months before he died.

    (1) here, following the “highest standard” quote from David. Photography that becomes meaningful to more than a coterie.


    It didn’t sound preachy at all.

    “I got that sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach that he was contrasting the work of say Panos or Patricia to my own.”

    You’re not alone, my friend! :))

  • And I see HERVE just posted the same comment :))

  • in other words, if you have to talk about a picture too much, it probably “ain’t gonna work”…

    nonsense, david. depends the context people are gathered for. Ina good day, Me or Bob, others, but we 2 I am sure, can write about a photo that touched us deeply, for pages. I am sure someone did that with a book. Geoffrey Dyer did this in a much fascinating way, that reconciled me with the diea of shooting the exact same subject as countless before (striving not to make it the same photo, of course).

    WOW, now we are talking, I have not gone half of what has been written this morning, following our little poking from Cathy and I. The blog as I just LOOOOOVE IT. ;-)

  • BOB…

    “but i think asking David to explain what is necessary good about patricia and panos’ work as a means for all three of you to find what is “good” about your is asking the wrong question”

    I can only speak for myself…but I don’t believe I have ever done this. I am interested in seeing what David sees when looking at Panos’ work so I can try to see it too. I want to see what he is seeing but as far as “applying” anything anyone else is doing to my own work…hmmm…don’t think so. Unless I am misunderstanding you?

  • for all three of you to find what is “good” about your is asking the wrong question…

    Bob, once again, you read what you want in something that, at least I, never wrote. Who said we needed David’s lecture on a picture to make up our own?!?!?

    What is wrong with asking people, here David, to just go beyond a one-liner, and expound a bit on a picture, or whatever they see in what someone is doing?

    Asia, India? these are not in books, lectures, and recitations. These are EXPERIENCES. Read our beloved Campbell, that is all he says after all is said, done, read and…Learnt!


  • CATHY: :))

    THAT WOULD BE A TYPO…i meant it for all 3 of u, since i know all 3 of you have deep knowledge, experience and travel with India/Far East (or would that be far West ;)) )…i meant actually, that Herve’s photographs always seem to “accept” what they are and they also seem very cleary to be what he wants/shows…with you and Sidney, you always seem to be frustrated by your work, in other words, often making work that fights with itself :))…hmmm, how can i put that, since each person wrestles with themselves and struggles with themselves…i guess i meant that the work of all 3 of you that enters me and that I like (and each of you have made photographs and series of work that i feel very deeply and adore), only that for some reason Herve often seems to be not so much seeking David’s “advice” to all…wait, this sounds so stupid now…(stupid online shit): I meant that i was surprised that the “need” to have David point how what makes Panos or Patricia or (you fill in the blank) other photos speak cannot always be prescribed or written about: it’s easier to speak about what “doesn’t” work than what does ;))))..I have immense respect for you and sidney and Herve, for your ideas, your lives and your experiences…

    funny, i always think of your work as your pics from India, always…and was interested to see how the cowboy/home project pics different…in “feeling” not “content”…but, i meant to lump all 3 of you, since i know how much India (hindu, jainism, buddhism) mean to all 3 of you, as much as they do to me and that’s why i alluded to them, ’cause i thought that orientation might be a way for each of u to enter your struggle with your own work….


    I LOVE THE DYER BOOK…a bible :))))


    I HOPE U WEREN’T OFFENDED WITH ME :)))…just wanted to jump in and add some support (my long post was meant to do that, not to discourage)…

    so, CATHY, i’ll never NOT refer to India again without invoking you :))))))))))….

    as for the sadness…I mean, really, im super open, super sensitivity to people’s sadness or struggles right now…it’s all the metta i’ve been doing, so i just felt sad that there seemed to be so much struggle with you guys, when i want to say:

    get back to a more richer form: the non-thinking part of who you 3 are, since that part of you (india/asia) is such a rich part of all 3 of your lives:


    maybe that makes more sense ??


    cant wait to get with you and the corn pipe :))

    hugs, gotta split


  • CATHY….

    laughing…you may raise your hand all you want!!

    however, please note (and there must be some pro teachers out there who know the “kid in class” who requires the most attention…yes???):

    i think many members of this forum would agree that i have spent many more hours, minutes, on the keyboard answering your questions above all others….not to mention private e-mails..i could be wrong, but this is a matter of record, so i think i am right on this one..

    so getting “into the chamber” for the feast or gifts certainly cannot be something that you feel has alluded you…

    perhaps if you sense some frustration on my part it is because often i feel that we are in exactly the SAME PLACE as over a year ago…

    with exactly the SAME DIALOGUE and questions….

    i also feel (perhaps incorrectly) that you could not possibly have read a comment i just wrote to you..sometimes i read your comment back to me and i think “omg , Cathy did NOT even read what i wrote or she could not possibly be asking me the same thing again”…

    AND, rarely do we really have any of your work to almost all discussions are totally hypothetical..the worst kind of photo discussion!!!

    surely you have read the discussions i have had with the photographers here shooting essays (Erica, Patricia,James,Jonathan, Panos, Kyunghee, Rafal, David M. etc etc)…they shoot…we chat…they shoot some more…things move forward…so, we actually have some very nice essays going…

    i would like nothing more than for you to be a part of it…i have always said this to you both on line and in person…

    please simply post a link to new work and i will look…as do all of us here…yes, i may miss something, but i always catch up…

    one thing i do know as a guide/teacher….a professorial truism…and i know this because at the Natgeo workshops i get “reviewed” by the students…there is a 100% guarantee that if i receive a “bad review” from a student, it is the one who demanded the most attention AND is, in fact, the one i spent the most time with…some cups cannot be filled…

    now, before you slam the door and never speak to me again…(yes, i get that too!!)…just think about all of the above…i mean, is there part of any of it ringing true???

    you know when we met in person in Santa Fe, i so enjoyed meeting you…so, i really liked you…your real life persona is totally cool…we had a lot of good laughs etc etc and good vibes all around…but, sometimes on line we totally misunderstand each other i think…i cannot explain this at all…

    anyway, before we “break up” right here in front of everyone, let’s try again….please send your link…please try to interpret me in a positive light and i do the same with you…

    does that work???

    hugs, peace et al, david

  • DAVID…

    I am editing work right now so don’t want to spend too much time talking…just in between folders taking a break.

    I was just thinking this morning about what you have said (previously) about spending so much time with me…and thinking that there is NO WAY you could possibly still feel that way after all the time you spend with SO MANY others here so I can’t believe you have just said that again! :)) Does it seem at all possible to you that for every question you are answering “FOR ME” that there may be many others with that same question who are for one reason or another not asking it? Maybe even fearing they will get the feedback from you that I get!! :)) I get lots of “Thanks for asking that” comments so I don’t think of it as “me” taking up your valuable time…that’s why we are doing all of this publicly. I sincerely hope you see it as more than that!

    In any case..I am happy and grateful for whatever time I get with you and do hope you will look at the soon to come images and let me know your thoughts. I definitely prefer to have our conversations be based on images rather than theory and take full responsibility for not putting more images up.

    Back to editing!

  • Finally finished to read the entire morningcontributions. I am perplexed at the misreadings and misunderstandings. I hope my last post stated clearly what was asked for. Just a bit more conversation from david than just a one-liner, on someone’s work. No need to bring in the photography golden rules, upanishads, Zimmer and whatnots…

    You guys made it so convoluted, talking about “photography not a linear learning”, and “it does not matter what david thinhs”……..What the fuck?!?!?

    We just asked for a little conversation, let us decide what we learn, not learn, the plesaure is elsewhere, in sharing. When someone writes to XXX “great shot”, or “#1 and #3 for me” fine with me, but also: where is the sharing?

    PS: and BTW, someone celebrated for choosing the same shots as David (from panos kids). Might as well expound… ;-)))


    “so getting “into the chamber” for the feast or gifts certainly cannot be something that you feel has alluded you…”

    I HOPE you understand by “getting into the chamber” I don’t mean anything having to do with the amount of time I spend getting attention from you… What I mean by that is that (for me) it’s easy to get involved with all of the relationships here and hanging out on the blog talking about everyone elses photography and forget what I am really here for…MY PHOTOGRAPHY. To have my priorities straight…which they are…and not forget why I am here. Hope that was clear! :))


    :-))))))))))) BOB, you are something else.

    How come we had to read your thoughts here then….
    I am cracking up, reminds me what the emperor told Mozart (probably never happened actually):

    “My Dear Mozart, how wonderful, but too many notes”…

    …”My Dear Bob, wonderful words, but too many thoughts”.


    Thanks all for a great animated breakfast, albeit alone at home. Off to work!

    PS: Panos, stop masturbating, and come say hello!

  • david,

    i may have missed some posts but i’m confused on how the EPF will work this year.
    Will you post a “call for entries”?
    Is it open only to photographers who are already working on assignments or to anyone?
    Sorry for asking, probably, as i said, i missed something.



    regarding DAH saying “if you have to talk about a picture too much, it probably “ain’t gonna work”… ”

    I feel the same..
    tho it may be interesting for me to hear why someone is moved by something which doesn’t create any real sense of interest/ feeling in me, and tho I too enjoy ‘art dissection’ a la color form lines, etc and reading at length the words on photography of D.L. Strauss, for example ..nothing anyone says about a work will ever change how I feel about it on a gut visual / visceral level..tho maybe I will gain more sympathy and appreciation for the artist’s position and the work that resulted from it, or gain more context about work by hearing words ..


    “funny, i always think of your work as your pics from India, always…and was interested to see how the cowboy/home project pics different…in “feeling” not “content”

    Bob, Herve asked a while back why there wasn’t more of “India” in my New Mexico work. At that time I had already shot the images I’m in the process of posting which I think are a step in this direction. As I have said to Herve, I want this myself and thought I was moving closer to what he had suggested…perhaps you will see it later today…but if not, know it is something I am aware of and working on. :))

    I know you weren’t being critical but you brought up something I am thinking about….so just wanted to share.

  • David, missed part of one reply from you. I understand your point about being in person vs online. It makes a lot of sense, but it also tells me that such picture, such work is still in the “becoming”, much perfectible period.

    A very good, great, “wow!” shot (or series of) does leave its photographer and by doing so, does not need him/her anymore. It can live by itself (with minimum introduction). Such shots can be, yes, celebrated unspokenly but also at length, and in very volubile manner.

    Also, some shots leave us speechless too, but in a “yes…And?” kind of way! :-)))


    but in the reread of what I just posted to you, I’d have to clarify that what it comes down to for me is

    if you have to talk about a picture too much TO ME, it probably “ain’t gonna work FOR ME


    Yes, absolutely..and may I assure you that my years with the Dead were all about the pure experience :) ‘Nuff said, on a public forum!

  • DAVID,

    Well, don’t worry. It is true that I’m too polite and don’t like to bother anybody. I asked you twice (and probably not very vigorously) but I did not mean to be tiresome and did not insist more… But I remember you, the last day saying that I should ask and ask and ask once, twice or more times if I get no answer from you ;-) I will keep it in mind the next time :D

    Anyway, sure I will have the chance to get your opinion soon. At least, as you say, once it is on Digital Railroad. Thanks for that and for considering my work for EPF.

    mil besos!


  • Erica, please, no more misunderstanding, you all feel we are asking to hear more from david because we wonder what in the hell he finds in this or that series/shots. I am sure I never mentionned anything even close to this.

    This whole thing about not talking about “great” shots, let me do a Gilden here : “come on, gimme a break!”! ;-)

    I got to understand the range of the artistries and greatness in the history of photography by reading about shots. Nothing bookish, quite the contrary:

    to get the stimulus of points I did not have the knowledge or awareness to bring about myself, did CONCRETELY throw me into a frame, a picture, a concept. Question my own conceptions as well.

    For Godsake, the first I saw a Parr or egglestone picture, I thought that was dishonest crap. Some other, I liked, but I wondered how that liking could be shared, and even why I liked it (it’s ok to ask why, BTW). I read what others had to say, if it’s out there.

    Unlike what Bob said previously, this is not just words, it’s nurturing oneself thru words (see how people who do not know how to read words, or frown upon reading, fare in our side of the world).

    And I do not read anything like it’s bible (from David’s or anyone), but the interconnectedness that comes from listening, reading, hearing like-minded others does nurture and stimulate me.

    The speechless poetic in “wow!” never prevented anyone to write poems.

  • if you have to talk about a picture too much TO ME, it probably “ain’t gonna work FOR ME

    Neither saying “great shot!” ;-)


    out the door now, but I was actually agreeing with you as well as with DAH..silly internet makes everything bloody hard.. xo


    It’s been ages since we last chatted, but I’m so glad you shared the commentary from last night with us. Who’s better than you?!?!


    such an interesting discussion and (mis)understandings! i’d like to take the opportunity not to add to the discussion, but to put it into practice…

    i’m struggling with something and i feel i need feedback. it’s not the “like/not like” type so might take more time to describe… and it’s exactly the sort of thing every sane person would say “this only works face to face, never online”. but i want to prove that this place here can do it nonetheless :)

    it’s about the difference between an edit for a slideshow and an edit for a book.

    i’ve been putting up images on my wall for a couple of weeks now, rearranging stuff, putting things together, putting things in order, changing the order, changing the order again… i got a good overview of my project, which up till now i have only seen on my own computer screen.

    then a couple of days ago i put a few images in a book layout, just to get a ‘feel’ for it. i wasn’t prepared for this, but i fell off my chair. most of the meaning of the images, their impact, their strength changed completely because of the whitespace and the page layout. is this normal?

    i didn’t even get into the “rhythm” or “flow” part of the story yet. i’m just dead stopped in my tracks and it appears like i just have a couple of spreads with singles. (best i could find to describe the feeling i have)

    suddenly i don’t know how to tell the story in this kind of “format” anymore

    and to add to difficulty, i don’t know how to show this here in the blog to ask for feedback… because then it’s ‘electronic’ again, not anymore on paper but back on a screen…

    any ideas how i could show here what i mean? anyone recognize this? a PDF or so? or am i just seeing things and do i need to lay off the beer for a while?

  • Anton

    Print 50 books and send to us :)
    a pdf is ok to show “book” style.
    beer is good for it too…

  • David/everybody;
    What do you do when you hit the wall creatively? Since returning from the Timor trip I seem to be having real difficulty regaining motivation for other personal work. I had started two home projects, but they seem to lack the “intensity and seriousness” now.

    Sure, I’m still undertaking commercial magazine work (to keep the wolf from the door), and am working to get back Timor and another Pacific project, but really can’t seem to get the “creative juices” flowing. Having to scramble around for new work after that major client folded hasn’t helped, but it’s not an excuse.

    I’ve never been through a patch like this. After every other trip I’ve done I’ve always been a bit “down” for a week or so, but not three months!!!

    Timor was a revelation and confirmed the type I want to undertake, and I am working on ways to do more, but please, any ideas on how to get those juices flowing again. Also, am I the only one who has struggled with this problem?

    Thanks everybody.


    Taking a quick break here.

    I saw the other day when you posted “Hometown” and did not notice any blog comments on the work. I wanted to say then how clearly your painting skills show thru in your photography. (This is meant as a compliment!) There does not seem to be any separation between photography and painting for you.

  • CATHY…

    cool…no problems…

    yes, you are right, there could be many others with similar questions….and , if they have them, it seems to me they do indeed ask..with 100 comments per day, i do not think it very likely that some are “holding back” because they may feel that i would not answer them or be condescending…

    i am here for exactly that purpose…and it surely is a matter of record also that i spend a lot of time in conversation least, as much as i possibly can…i cannot respond to every comment, but i try like hell to answer every question asked of me…i look for the question marks…

    yes, there are “blackout” times when i am running a workshop or out shooting on my projects, but if i am anywhere near a computer and with any time at all, i am here for you and the others…

    also, i think it is set up quite nicely here, perfectly actually, that when i am not around there are so many wonderfully qualified writers and photographers who can totally “carry” the forum….

    so, we have a good thing going…a family in fact…and like a really honest healthy family, we put our concerns on the table and discuss..this way there are no “hidden hard feelings” which may “cover up” some issues, but are harmful in the long run…

    i will always speak my mind, and you do as well…that seems just fine and healthy to me…

    you are clearly part of the family…we all welcome your comments…and, as with everyone’s comments, part of our family freedom is being able to respond in an honest forthright way…i am very pleased if you are getting ready to post some photographs…

    please pass the potatoes….

    hugs, david

  • DAVID,

    No, no not too much work, most happy to make a contribution behind the scenes. I only mentioned having someone else do it in addition to me for redundancy sake. I have no idea if Michael C. is backing up the blog database but I would think this is certainly possible and a best practice. Sorry Michael :))


    Yassus :))) Yes, I am on Syros, this most Greek of the Cyclades :))

    I could not get the permit for Athos … only 10 “non-Christian” allowed per day. I only said I wasn’t Orthodox, didn’t say I was an atheist but apparently non-Orthodox equals non-christian ;-) It is just as well I think, Athos deserves a pilgrimage in and of itself and I will do it within the next few years. I understand Prince Charles is a regular and a standing member of the Friends of Athos, which I have joined.

    I am in love with Greece, did I mention this? While I have not traveled extensively, like a first love, I doubt Greece will ever have an equal for me. Sicily next I think, such a rich mix of cultures, including Greek, through the ages, or so I read.

    I have posted a few picks on my blog here … … went to a Greek wedding in a village here today, long story :)))

    I will make some postcards for you and send you a link :))

    Tipping a Mythos to you …

  • Hello everybody…
    I just briefly stopped for lunch in the “candle cafe”
    … Right next to the Venice Bistro..
    I was struggling NOT to order a Heineken..
    But after I read the latest comments and
    “exchanges”.. I couldn’t help it.. I ordered
    a beer and a bloody Mary..
    Herve I wasn’t masturbating ( unfortunately)…
    But I just drove 118 miles ($5 per gallon),
    To make it to my Venice..
    My personal hell and paradise at the same time…
    I’m dying to comment…
    But I’d rather keep going before I lose the light..

    …. For Guido…
    Anyone at anytime is eligible for EPF
    not only the assignees… Go ahead..
    Start posting…!
    Let’s see more more more more more

    You definitely ARE in Greece …
    Yeahhhhh… You made my day!

  • And yes… Sorry…
    Being a NON orthodox in greece ,
    Means a non Christian .. A barbarian…
    LOL …
    Keep ordering Mythos , but stay away from
    OUZO… please

  • Three Mythos beers in fact … :)))

  • ouzo, no, no, too much heartburn for me … i’m a wuss. Now Jack Daniels is another thing ..

  • GUIDO…

    well, you just were not around when i was writing about the way EPF would work…and also, i am making decisions on how to best distribute the funding, so i do not have a locked down set of “rules”…

    the photographers on assignment only have some kind of advantage because i have pushed many of them to really expand their horizons…the jury for EPF will probably study the photographers on assignment very carefully because they will see that they have produced an essay within a relatively short time frame..this is something all funders appreciate…the ability of a photographer to actually produce something of value with the funds…

    however, anyone who showed up with a strong essay from “out of nowhere” would also be in the running as well….this is less likely, but technically possible…

    i have not announced a deadline, and have some details to work out, but you will know everything soonest….


    there is all the difference in the world between a slide show and a book and a magazine piece and an exhibition…every medium makes the work look different…you must work very hard on four different ways of showing work and the book to slide show or vice versa is the biggest jump…

    you are in a generation who grew up with computers, so i am a bit surprised that this is quite the big jump for you that it would be for me….

    i must fall in love with an essay ON THE WALL before ever thinking about it as a slide show or book or exhibit..if it does not work up on the wall (as a layout or sequence) then it does not exist in my mind..wherever i live must have one very large blank white wall where i put up smallish prints to study, to sequence, to decide their “value”…i can do some work with various computer programs, but even general sequencing seems different “on the wall” than it does in Lightroom….still easier to move prints around than drag and drop…

    i can and do build slide shows off the computer screen , but no slide show exists for me that is not also a print show..for me, but not for everyone, it is very important in a slide show to have each singular image up on that screen to be a PHOTOGRAPH, not just a “transition picture”..this flies in the face of some multi-media philosophy, but i think as time goes on and the competition for really fine fine multi-media shows intensifies, that you will not be able to beat the shows that actually have each frame be a truly good frame on its own..

    some are getting away with sloppy stuff now, but cannot imagine this will last…so many of the worlds best are just not into the on line or multi-media game…YET…but when the traditional print media are really really no longer any kind of “support system” (and this is happening fast), then i think you will see an “advance” in mulit-media….

    sorry, guess i went “off” a bit…

    are talking about the work of yours i saw in Perpignan??? the small prints of the life of the girl (sorry, forgot her name)???? if so, i cannot see any problem…get to New York..we will put them on the wall..get it sorted out for you pronto!!!

    i think you are finding out how hard it is to make a book …period…seems easy…seemingly, you just need a lot of pictures…but, as you know, that ain’t quite it….

    anyway, let’s get together soonest wherever whenever and get that book sorted out…

    cheers, david

  • AKAKY: You know, nobody ever asks me about the influence of India on my work. I wonder why that is.

    AKAKY IRL: That’s because you’ve never been to India, dummy. In fact, you’ve never been to Indiana, either, and that’s a helluva lot closer to you than India is.

    AKAKY: But you don’t actually need to be somewhere to be influenced by it. People used to get the German measles all the time without ever catching a plane to Berlin, you know.

    AKAKY IRL: You’re kidding me, right? No, you’re not, I can tell from that stupid look on your face that you’re absolutely serious. Is there some way I can get you committed? I’m tired of always living with a full moon.

    AKAKY: No, you’re stuck with me, bubba.

    AKAKY IRL: Don’t depress me anymore than you have to. Tell me again why we’re here.

    AKAKY: No particular reason. We’re just letting everyone know that the party yesterday went fairly well and to thank everyone for the positive vibes.

    AKAKY IRL: What do you mean it went well? You had to recharge your damn battery in the middle of the thing! Half your picture are on film, including that Fujifilm that you dont like anyway and the one roll of Velvia 50. You really think that there’s going to anything worth looking at on any of those things? Give me a break.

    AKAKY: Stop taking counsel of your fears–

    AKAKY IRL: And dont start quoting Stonewall Jackson to me, thank you very much. Jackson was surrounded by an army when he said that. Second, he didnt take counsel of his fears and wound up getting shot by his own men, which is exactly the sort of thing that happens to people who dont take their fears seriously.

    AKAKY: You’re very depressing, you know that, dont you?

    AKAKY IRL: So I’ve been told.

  • ROSS…

    you have been “blocked” for three months?? well, that happens, but you do not want to waste any time getting “out of the hole”..that is a long time to be blocked…

    i have not ever been blocked for more than a few days(fingers crossed), but i get out of it by working really hard on ANYTHING….not necessarily even something i care about, but any damn thing that gets me working really hard..i guess just the PROCESS of working hard, snaps me out of the doldrums…if i might tend to sit around and wait to get unblocked i know i would only get more blocked…

    so go fix your garage that needs fixing….or rebuild the engine on your car…or, get a shovel and dig a swimming pool by hand..bust it somehow…OR, just start shooting in earnest anything….one thing will lead to another….

    oh yes, there is one other way…i do not know why i did not put this as the very best way….read yourself silly….load up with every book you can get your hands on…THAT will do it…

    cheers, david

  • AKAKY….

    man, you are NEVER blocked!!!!

    ON as usual….

    peace, david

  • Hello All,

    Just catching up, been away from the ‘pooter for a few days… Thanks for the great write-up on the party ERICA! Glad to hear you are having fun TOM… will check your pics after. KATHARINA: How was BKK? Would love to see some new stuff.

    Leaving the UK tomorrow, so have been saying goodbye to friends and family. Will be in NY Tues Weds if anyone would like to catch up. Not sure who is in NY?… Know you are ERICA.

    DAVID: You still up for the meet? Tues or Weds afternoon would work well, please let me know…

    …Back to the packing!…



    yes exactly… those are the images… kiddo Birgit… from previous conversations i fully expected to see things “in another light” as it were, once they were up on my wall. and it was great to see them in a different way, organize freely without the limitations of a computer screen (jesus what a burden a computer is for editing i realise now) so i am totally with you on this one: prints on the wall/table is the way to go if the end product is print as well… didn’t realize this would be such a difference to a slideshow

    but i didn’t expect to run into several other walls while putting them in a layout… it’s like i suddenly see different angles, different tiny sub-stories emerging and all screming for attention. i’m not worried or anything, but it does make me rethink again and again and again “what is the story i really want to tell?”

    can’t make it to NY… we’ll be meeting in mexico i guess for the workshop… gives me some more time… am trying to find accomodation in oaxaca, up till now without any luck… any tips there? seems like the whole world will be there on dia de los muertos… will bring more printed “Birgit” work along (pedal to the metal)… lay everything on the table… great that you feel you can help sorting it out pronto :))))

    cheers and thanks for the insight

    ps did email you about what we talked about (EPF…), i’m not sure i got your address right, did you receive anything?


    will try to send you a pdf sample soon! having a beer now :-)


    well…at least I know if I ever make it to Greece I won’t be considered a barbarian….although I am a “different” orthodox…Antiochian…but very similar…:)

    ouzo. scary. say no more.

    Mythos beer. Yes, please. :)

    I would be happy to help out behind the scenes if possible….I will read the link on how to backup typepad, see if I can do anything unilaterally…if not, I again volunteer to assist…my email linked to my name on the bottom of all my “image” pages….for backup or anything I can do…

    Somewhat discouraged today….it was a weekend filled with fall festivals here – the Latino festival, an arts fair in a very small town near here, Archeology weekend in Red River Gorge (an amazing place, about 50 miles from here)…had such high hopes of taking many photos at each of these…which I did….but just hardly any make the cut…I suspect it was just one of those times, just not able to go with the flow and capture the mood….but still, disenheartening….I will post the few I think are worthwhile later…I suspect I am simply distracted by “real world” concerns and issues…

    What a wonderful reportage on the show and fiesta … more than reportage actually, as I felt I was there…feelings and emotions conveyed as well as factual observations (and quotes, even!). thank you for sharing…

    Unfortunately, I will not make the fiesta on Oct 3…I will be travelling and in the Carolinas…but sometime soon…I’m sure our conversation will easily turn from technical topics to more meaningful discusssions…

    thanks for the comments on which images of mine appealed to you…you picked almost every one of my own favorites, or if not favorites, the ones I felt “worked”…and to comment briefly on the comments on critiques….for me personally, sure, it is an afirmation for any one of you (DAH especially) to comment positively….but this isn’t why I post … not seeking deconstructive analysis….but maybe looking for the “line” between what works and what doesn’ further explore what works and refine or abandoned what doesn’t….but mainly it’s to feel as part of the group…to create and contribute myself….

    Ok. I’m sure I’ll re-read that and cringe, but hitting the “post” button now anyway…

  • DAH said..”or, get a shovel and dig a swimming pool by hand..”

    Ok, that’s really kind of funny, that’s how I ended up with a fire pit in my backyard…I won’t mention that I also learned firsthand why they say to call before you dig…that skinny orange cable 4 inches below the surface handled the cable tv, the phone, and the internet….it was a quiet weekend, that weekend…

    would love to see Birget (sp?) in pdf form….did you try doing them as a layout in a program like word or powerpoint or such that simulates the printed form? Still not the same, but maybe helpful?

  • ANTON:

    Sorry mate, was meaning to get back to you re. your edit, been a busy few days. Will have a look later if I can. Will get back to you!


  • andrew b
    ”Ok. I’m sure I’ll re-read that and cringe, but hitting the “post” button now anyway…”


    ahh – thats the way.


    thanks for the reports.. interesting to read..

    i was going to write more on all thats happened here today.. frankly though, it’s 1am and i’m tired.

  • andrew b…

    did/doing a comp of birgit in indesign and printed some spreads… that’s when i sort of freaked :-) different images come out much stronger, some much less (compared to the slideshows is mean)
    will try to post it in a minute before i go to bed…

    james! how are you!

    no worries mate, i’ve got all the time in the world :-)

  • David;
    It’s been a strange one for me too. I have been working, taking photos, but only to illustrate articles I’ve been writing.

    I think part of it may be because I have been hunkered down at home re-writing articles etc (working hard!!) to sell, just to get the finances back on track after that magazine crash. So there have been a few ups and downs too.

    I’m not sure it’s a block; I think it may be that after being exposed to a “more important” story it’s harder to become enthused over seemingly “lesser” stories. I am still extremely passionate about my photography work though.

    As an example; I had started a project about local race goers called punters. Small local events and focussing on the locals betting, jockeys etc, not the actual racing. I was, and still am happy with the results so far.

    Well I went to a meeting the other day to continue the project, but couldn’t get “into” it. It seemed trite to me to be doing this project when the people I worked with in Timor still face the same problems etc… My head in NZ, but heart in Timor…..

    I’ve also been undertaking quite a few lectures about Timor to local groups so that probably doesn’t help either!!

    Hopefully this makes some sense…

  • ANTON…

    i have not checked my mail in a week…will do tomorrow…

    ah yes, Oaxaca…coming at us like a freight train..sure sure, we can definitely find some time there to do your edit….are you going to leave right after the workshop?? some of us are going to head for the beach, Puerto Escondido, right after just to chill..wanna come???

    peace, david


    here are some spreads… no real “sequence” yet, just a collection of singles seemingly out of order :)))

    really gotta go to bed now… 1.15am… will check back “soonest”! :)))


    will be staying longer, up till the 8th, was guessing that i’d need some days relaxing at the beach after the gruelling 9 day workshop :)))) so yes, i’ll join… chill… thanks for the invite :)

  • HERVE:

    it is funny how everytime i write something which you either disagree with or criticize, you always write something about ME…always criticizing HOW i write (here)…i don’t edit what i write, nor do i draft responses in Word, i see this blog as a conversation, and most often (at least for me) a quick post after i’ve read something…in now way have i edited, or measured, rather, trying to offer something in response. though i dont take your comments to heart when you address them at Me rather than the substance of what i’ve written (which seems to be the merciless way your read me: odd, really)…

    let me say this simply then:

    Offering critique about Art through language is a bit of hobgobblin. Some artists are articulate about discussing/describing/intellectualizing what constitutes a work or a process. some artists are painfully inept. but this verbal ineptitude (or rather inability, since ineptitude cares a too pejorative of a connotation) neither diminishes the work nor the artist. Some (for example you) are able to very precisely and clearly articulate your likes/dislikes and the attendant and ancillary explanations. But does this make you a good artist? Dyer is gorgeously articulate as well about photography but he is not a photographer.

    The problem i found (and why i waded in) was that you guys had written some interesting questions and were asking David for things that seemed to be contrary to what David has ever articulated. You wrote:

    “Can you go at one picture (from Panos, Patricia, or anyone else, my own post here is not really in reaction to their work) and “empty your bag” on what and why that picture is succesful, concretely (I mean not too stream of consciousness-ly)? what works in the compo, the timing, the subject, etc….In any way you find most probing, as a lone image, or as it stands within the essay, or within the stance of the photographer.

    I see Cathy’s question relating to her frustration at too many one-liners (if not just one word) paid to one member posting a link by others. She has a point..”

    Your lamentation about not getting enough articulation (specifics) from David (in this case vis-a-vis Cathy (she initiated the question) seemed, well argumentative for it’s own sake, frankly. David has just finished a workshop in which he’s spent the entire week with students talking (specifically) about all this. The other thing is that Cathy (and i love her posts and her enthusiasm as she’s been a force of nature here since the beginning) is that I’ve read long and specific comments from David here about her work specifically many many times and i’ve heard David talk about the specifics of others work too many times (Lance, Erica, Patricia, Audrey, Tom, James Chance, Erica and hell, countless others (who dont write anymore ) when the blog was small small small.

    David actually is remarkably articulate about what he “feels” is a good photograph/series. I know lots of great photographers who cant mix 2 words together to explain what makes the work good or bad and this doesnt vitiate them in the least. I think you are confusing articulation (verbalization of an idea) with expression. The reason why i brought up the idea of Avidya (nescience: human ignorance) and Asmita (the I am I: cogito ergo sum thing) with the 3 of you is that I thought it might be a way for you 3 (as for the struggle with the work the idea was really about Sidney and Cathy, since they were the ones that seemed to be struggling, and you since you seconded cathy’s asking for more specifics) to put into context what was happening. I am sorry if this all appears a bit overintellectualized (something i assumed would not be adversive to you, since you are an one of the members here who continually talks about ideas and arguments and were clammming for more of an articulate response for david), but given that I share with the 3 of you a deep and committed relationship to photography and to philosophy from asia (being a buddhist), it might help out, or it might be a way to re-direct the NEED for Cathy, or both of you, to ask for this…aren’t some of these really limitation of being on line, not to mention of david’s time…

    have a discussion what works in a photograph or not is an important and worthwhile engagement, particularly for those who are either apt at it or hunger for it, but i am afraid that part of your need (your Raja) for articulation is YOUR need, …i was just offering that if, for example, i as a photographer and as a member have never felt that David doesn’t provide enough articulation, than how is my reaction less? The need the 2 of you have lay at the center of what you need, right….and it requires a lot to say what you see as a loss here requires david to accomplish that…

    sorry, i was trying to be helpful not derisive. and i will not bring up books or philosophy again. funny, i dont make a jest at your discussing Dyer, though you want no more zimmer.

    you are funny herve

    i wish you well.


  • ALL

    I just returned from a full day of shooting, listening & dancing to funky live bands, visiting with LOTS of old friends & meeting new ones, seeing a wonderful variety of art, much of it made by Detroit’s vibrant alternative community of artists, filmmakers and photographers, and savoring Detroit’s last free outdoor festival of the summer.

    While I was out doing my thing, it seems there was a lively exchange of ideas and feelings here on the blog. One of the things I love most about this community is our fearless discussions about how each of us interprets what is being said/written here. I know online communication is challenging but I think we use it better than most. As long as we keep saying it like we see it, we’ll be OK.

    In line with that, I need to share my discomfort with being seen as one of DAH’s “favorites.” Oh my gosh, this makes me uneasy. I remember so well my first months on the blog when I felt like nothing I did or had ever done photographically stood a candle to what you folks were doing. My confidence was at an all time low. So when David responded positively to my self portrait series, I was more surprised than anyone.

    Please don’t compare yourself to anyone else, not even to the most acclaimed, successful, published, celebrated photographer here or anyplace. Each of us has a unique eye, vision, message, purpose, and way of using this medium. Stay true to yourself and let your camera express what you alone have to say. When we do that, it doesn’t matter who else “gets it” or approves. We will satisfy ourselves, and that’s all that counts.



    feeling neglected??

    sorry, i was supposed to get back to you this morning…this was one of those days when i did not do anything right..ever had one of those??

    in any case, i took a good look at your newest work…

    the two pictures which struck me the most were the dead blue jay (the color combo of bird and sandals was right on) and the framed print on the wall.. sentimental…i liked also the portrait of you with eyes closed and the hot light on your foot..but,those first two grabbed me right away…
    isn’t that a different frame looking down the stairs?? seems like it, since it looks totally clear what you are trying to say this time..

    i think you need a better photograph of the bike..the one you have now just will not work with all of your other pictures…it is too too straightforward with no special light or provocative is just , well, a picture of your bike…yes, very important, poignant, and yet not a photograph as you have it here…also the reflection self portrait needs some work…that red car just kills it…i like the idea, but you need to refine this just a bit…just cleaner…when you do a reflection you need to keep things fairly simple because the reflection itself takes up a lot of “eye time”…

    surely, both of these pictures should be relatively easy to do again…yes??

    as time rolls on (yes, i mean just a half an hour or so since i have seen your work…) i just keep seeing the blue jay…that is the ONE

    sorry to get back to you so late..

    big hug, david

  • ANTON,

    i love this project even more after reading your intro….. i did not know the story of Birgit or the lessons she has taught you (us). just lovely!! i could hear her laughing and see her playing in your images… she is so alive and real – that truly comes across on your work. who is she? did you know her before you started this? and how long have you been working on this? i’m sorry if you have told this before – i do not remember though….

    i am sure you and DAH will have a great edit and sequencing of this in Oaxaca (one of my favorite places).

    keep up the great work.

  • DAH,
    Man, I have been away for five weeks and though I would quickly skim through the posts and try and catch up. That was four hours ago !!. I have been in Ladakh where life is slow. To come back and see how much has been going on is quite amazing.

    Whilst away I did a 350km raft trip though the Zanskar range and did a lot of shooting at a bunch of polo games.
    Only a few hours off the plane I paid $500 to get my film processed.
    So now I am just praying it will be money well spent. I can totally relate to the posts regarding the costs of doing personal work.

    Will let you know if it was worth it.


  • ANA….

    just wanted to throw in my two cents (experience) with asking DAH to look at your project…

    First of all, i know how sweet and polite you are – YOU can never bother anyone… David said not to be polite – just keep after him. He means it. I can not tell you how many times David and i will be talking and i will tell him that i will call him, remind him, email him, etc and David ALWAYS replies… “oh i know you will Gina….”. i know he is giving me friendly shit – but he knows i will stay on him about it too…. and he always come through…. ALWAYS. I never feel i am bugging him – he just needs reminding. He has so much on his plate and so many people in his life – but ALWAYS will find time for you.

  • Thanks, David. No, I wasn’t feeling neglected at all. I knew you’d get to it when you could. What with your workshop & slide show/fiesta, I’d imagine you had more things to do with your time today than look at my stuff!

    Yes, the photo looking down the stairs is new. Glad it works for you. I have some more bike photos that might work, but if not, that opportunity is gone. We put the bike out for the trash the day after I photographed it. I’ll work with those photos and post a new link soon.

    I don’t know to which photo(s) you refer when you say you like “the portrait of you with eyes closed and the hot light on your foot.” Can you give me the #? Thanks so much.

    To be honest, I feel like I’ve just had the wind kicked out of my sails. Two solid months of taking 100s of photos and we end up with 3 possibly 4 keepers. Whew. It’s going to take me awhile to get my head around that. Maybe I need to take some time off. Try to start fresh. Oh well, I guess it comes with the territory.

    Thanks again for taking the time, David. Don’t mean to sound ungrateful. I’m just feeling a bit discouraged.


  • DAVID and ALL…

    I feel like a sitting duck…setting myself up for who knows what in the way of comments after all the discussion today :))

    Here is the latest installment of FIESTA NEW MEXICO, shot a couple of months ago. As usual editing was a nightmare for me…so many ways I could have gone…lots of second-guessing.

    This is my first time using flickr and so far I have not figured out how to sequence shots. Enough talk…please take a look.

  • DAVID and ALL-

    You all seem to have had a busy afternoon exchanging on the blog… I am just back from a day on a lake, fishing with my son…wonderful relaxing afternoon…

    DAVID, I have kept thinking about a title for my boxing essay (will post the edit we did shortly)…even though I have not taken any photographs last week as all gyms were closed, I spoke the week before with some of the boxers…trying to catch a few lines that would inspire me for a good title… I have a few to offer just in case…Let me know if there is one that seems to grab you…


    Let me know if any of the above seem appropriate… My two favourites are “Angels and demons” or “Champs and chumps” but titles are not my strength…so would welcome your feedback.

    I will continue to talk with these guys over the coming days. I am actually recording their voice just in case I am stroke by lightning and become all of a sudden capable of doing a MM piece :):):)….

    Separately, for you and others…I was just checking the site of the NOOR agency where I often check the work of two photographers who I like very much: Francesco Zizola and Pep Bonet…There is right now a very interesting new piece of work from Francesco called “when hunger is green”…

    There is also another piece of work from Pep Bonet that I thought was strong…The essay is called “Scarlet Ruby”, a young travestite in Honduras…some really powerful images and again intriguing colors…

    Only watch-out with the last essay is that I thought some of the pictures seem a bit “complascent” (I hope the word is correct in English)…felt somewhat un-easy to see this boy take suggestive postures etc in front of the camera….clearly, that is his life and the photographer is showing this but it is one thing to take some pictures “being a fly on the wall”, it is another to likely ask this boy to take postures for the photograher…at least when this is meant to be a photojournalism essay….

    Anyway, worth checking both pieces of work….



  • HERVE…

    quoting myself:

    “when a fine photograph would come up on the screen, everyone in the class would go “aha”..ALL would agree on the very “best” ones…a collective “yes, that is it”…visceral gut reaction…the MEDIOCRE PHOTOGRAPHS REQUIRED DISCUSSION and were usually ELIMINATED FROM THE SHOW…in other words, if you have to talk about a picture too much, it probably “ain’t gonna work”… i have seen exactly the same discussions/reactions on major curated shows,during magazine layout sessions and at book structure meetings…that is just the way it is…”

    in response to that Herve, you said “nonsense David, it depends on what the viewers are gathered for”

    well, of course Herve it depends on what the viewers are gathered for!!!…

    and my viewers were gathered for EXCELLENCE…

    i was describing a class discussion…

    my context from the above graph is in the context of slide show of a week of student work…and the critique thereof…we were going for the BEST show possible…and i was merely relating the circumstances of a real life discussion…this is “nonsense”???

    you had asked very clearly for EXPLANATION, and i was trying to explain….you wanted analysis, and i was giving it to you..

    i was also relating it to real life experience when choices are being made for a museum show, a book layout meeting etc personal experience in these venues is the same experience i have had when editing for a slide show when a group of people are discussing a particular picture….i was only talking about a very specific discussion of a photographic choice…very specifically the critique of one photograph over another for the purpose of choosing the very best picture…only pointing out than in the environment i know, where pictures are taken very seriously, the really great ones require little or no discussion..they are obvious to all..the mediocre ones, where people go back and forth on them, usually end up OUT..out of the slide show, out of the museum selection, out of the magazine…maybe i read you wrong but “nonsense David” is “nonsense David”…sounds to me like you are somehow defending mediocrity or being obtusely subjective …

    of course , ANYTHING that is not “good” in one place, might be “good” in another…but, i thought we were trying to discuss overall here on the forum how to take our work to the highest possible levels..there are many paths, but one of those paths is not, in my opinion, to somehow play to the lowest common denominator…

    cheers, david


    what do you mean only 3 or 4 keepers???, i was just picking from the new ones i saw!!! the others i had chosen long ago before you went to the MEM workshop…you must have a solid 15-20 pictures!!!

    i will now go look at those numbers for hot shoe light and eyes closed…

    you , of all people, should not despair…your essay is remarkable!!!

    hugs, david


    can you tell me a little bit about this project – is this on going?? What is the Fiesta New Mexico? I only ask that after just seeing Anton’s project and reading his introduction and truly appreciating the project even more.

    There are a few gems in here that I truly like… #1, 7 and 9. I choose those because they seem to be more intimate. it feels like you are part of the celebration as opposed to witnessing it.

    and believe me – WE ALL second guess ourselves when it comes to editing…. it is the most difficult part for me….

  • ALL

    This is my first post and I am very happy to be coming into such a wonderful family. I am one of Davids’ students from last weeks’ Loft Workshop class and am still descending from an epic climb up the mountaintop. At the same time, I have an exhilarating feeling that the journey is just beginning.

    I’m really looking forward to all of the honest opinions and reactions from you, our peers, of our slideshow.

    Thanks for having me.


    Thanks again for everything. I sent a personal email…

  • Thanks, David. Sorry to add to your day of missed communications.I know we had 10 keepers from your first edit. It was just that I’d taken literally 100s and 100s of new photos since then, and 3-4 keepers from that lot seemed like a pretty poor showing.


  • MARC

    welcome. i love your description of taking DAH workshop. i know, i have been there…. i look forward to seeing your work….

  • DAH

    I left out the most important part of what I wanted to say in my email to you…

    When taking about the photographic vs the personal journey, I recognize now that it is both irrelevant and interconnected at the same time. Irrelevant in the sense that what matters is that the journey is being taken at all and that as an author, I have my story to tell. If that makes sense


    are you sure we are even on the same page??? am i looking in the right place?? i only saw about 10-15 new pictures i think…picking 3 or 4 out of 10 is not an unreasonable number…

    on the other hand, i think i told you before that to ADD a picture to a fine existing body of work becomes increasingly add ONE is really really hard…let’s say you had 10 really fine pictures when i left you in Detroit…the next 10 will be obviously harder than the first 10 because a new “good one” may simply cancel out one that is already in the “selects”..the number of “selects” generally decrease as you go forward because most photographers tend to “cancel themselves out” every time they do new work….for example, you took a new picture of the stairway…this not not add, this kept the number the same because it replaced another picture…this is totally “normal” Patricia…

    so you had 10…now you have say 14…that is an increase!!! it is just frustrating for all of us who are trying to do a book at this reverse progression… however, there will be “bursts” where you may add several in one fairly short period of time..

    to do your book, you will eventually need approximately 40-60 strong images….you are getting there!!!

    Martin Parr can do his style of book in 3 or 4 weeks….Paul Fusco did “Funeral Train” in a few hours…Chien-Chi Chang did “The Chain” in about an hour..

    all the rest of us generally spend many months or many years doing a book…

    you have “no reason” to despair from any practical standpoint, but i also know that being discouraged is part of it too….for all of us….

    so be discouraged!!! for about an hour!!!

    then kick in that go get em attitude that keeps you going everyday…think how lucky you are that you have a medium and a way of expressing yourself as no other…think of the inspiration you will be to others…

    you have come this far, you cannot stop now!!!

    peace, hugs, love, david

  • In the Northern Hemisphere, tomorrow is the Fall Equinox..

    Traditionally a time to reflect on whether we have actually planted the seeds we intended and have nurtured them to fruition, and to refocus our attention on what we truly want to manifest and then create the right atmosphere or attitude to bring it about.


    I’d have to say Robin Hood, unless you happen to already be rich.


    I liked that one, reminded me of Godot..

    night all


    i have comments for all three of you, but must save them for tomorrow…i am actually going to try for 6-8 hours of sleep!!! Cathy yes, i looked at your work 4 times…

    cheers, david

  • David;

    I don’t know if you remember, but I mentioned a while ago that Mr Allard supplied a quote for an article I wrote.

    Well he said to contact again him if I wanted. Well, I never really did, not wanting to bug him.

    After I got back from Timor I emailed him and asked if he’d give me a critique, well I received it today. It’s amazing how one thing can get you up an running again.

    The critique was HARD, but fair. Now all I want to do is to go out and do better, & put the critique into practise!!!


  • Thanks, David, for your encouraging words. By the way the link is

    There were actually 57 images in that gallery, 10 of them from the original edit. And sorry to bug you but could you give me the image # for the “hot shoe light.” I’m assuming the portrait with my eyes closed is the one where I’m singing.

    I think I really do need to take a break from this. The fact that I’m feeling so emotional about this edit tells me something is a bit off balance for me. I’ve been working on this project like a mad woman since June 11. I need to stand back from it and get grounded again.


  • James,
    how are you ?
    BKK was good…a bit crazy …… will upload some new picures soon.


    I forgot, that gallery is password protected, so the link is

    PASSWORD patricia

    And now I AM wondering if perhaps you were going to the wrong gallery because the counter says that gallery has only had 2 hits.

    Hope you get a good sleep. I bet you need it!


  • Anton

    You are right. I changed everything!
    Looks just gorgeous!!!

  • Hey David,

    unfortunately theres no way for me to post links to individual images because typepad thinks its spam. I have added a number of images to Riverside, Park Life, Home Sweet Home and Family Ties over the last week, or so. If you have time come and see the newest images in the photostream or come and see the slideshows. I have especially concentrated on Park Life series this week simply because I was able to spend a lot of time there with my family.

  • Sorry to have missed the soiree. Just saying hi because there is like over 400 comments. Maybe I will be able to come next time. Oh well!!!!!!!!!

  • David, Sarkowsky curated shows for decades, yes, like you and i and at your loft, I am sure he had that “ahah” experience, and staying speechless. yet, he has written copiusly about photographs, I think his most famous book is “100 photographs” (and not 100 mediocre photographs, ahaha). How is that defending mediocrity or being obtusely subjective to see that the “aha” experience does not have to be the one and supreme reaction to a superb photograph?

    I was not making any judgement about how things happened at your loft, as you all watched pictures. Hell, I live alone, how many times do you think i see a photo that speaks to or touches me and stay silent? ;-)

    Bob, in all due respect, I did not criticize how and what you wrote but what you read in my post. As you do again, speaking of lamentation. I can’t care less, or rather, too long if david does not want to speak more about this or that shot, thought i’d just ask, that’s all.

    I do not criticize how you write, I tease you about it, BTW.

    “I see this blog as a conversation”
    (did you steal that sentence from me, Bob?)

    Ok, we are one on this, then let’s not cut with a scalpel and devise what Cathy, or me, said, let’s not analyze it and assume we “did not get it” .
    Rather, Let’s stick to the brunt of our conversation (ie. tell us more about one shot you liked) without reaching to extraneous untopical points, because that is not a conversation, that is a lecture. Which never goes down well in a conversation between a few people.

    About not seeking advice from david. What i said is that I will not bother David on anything i do that is at trial stages, but only when I consider it finished myself. I just do not have another 25 years in front of me to do good work, no need to wonder if, “see, what I am trying to do…”, and “do you think that..?”, etc…

    Like you, actually!

  • David, I see you have actually, as far as I am concerned, answered the question I asked, by going over Patricia’s last batch, seeing this and that in her shots, and writing it.

    I think maybe this is not something you wish to do with evryone,some youd’ rather speak in person with then (Panos?).

    “Emptying your bag” was an unfortunate expression. Just a few hints does help greatly, actually.


    Any chance you let us privy to Allard’s critique on your work. I am sure we can all learn from it.

  • GINA

    hey… yes some months ago i told the story here about her, can’t remember when exactly, it’s buried somewhere between all the conversations here :)

    i must’ve started photographing somewhere around may, about 5 months ago, when things settled down… she’s the oldest of my sister’s children… i could have focused on the “harsh” reality of her diagnosis a year ago, the emergency room, the look in her eyes just not understanding what’s going on why are they tapping all this blood from me it hurts what’s wrong with me be brave little girl…

    but, for me (and for her) that was not the true story to tell… i feel this goes so much deeper to the core of her (and our) being…





  • GINA, Thanks, sweety :-)
    I know you are right (the last day we were in Perp. David also told me so ). Oh yes, that is one of my defects, I just don’t do some things or ask for help because I’m usually too respectful and I’m afraid of disturbing. When I see somebody that has “so much on his plate”, I don’t want to become “extra food” and cause an “upset stomach” :D
    But I wasn’t complaining about it at all! I just mentioned it because I missed the chance there and it was a pity. But there will be more chances for sure! ;-)
    A warm hug

  • WOW!!!!

    Go the DAH blog…what an incredible little cosmos this has turned out to be… like a kind of university but not so impersonal…

    With the return of my mates, MATTY N, YOUNG TOM, KAT and JC, the ever eloquent presence of BRUZ BOB, BIG SIS PAT, ‘LIL BRO ANTON and OF COURSE MY LONG LOST DAD, AKAKY who sold me off for a bunch of sausages when I was just a wee bairn…

    And all my classmates getting in there and rolling their sleeves up, debating, questioning and working hard…


    I am not sure but my reading of your dilemma is that you want the truth about photography and photographs, but each of us only has our own truths and they are subjective and disturbingly mutable and often completely indecipherable to anyone but our own selves… It always perplexes me enormously, opinion and taste.

    The one thing I know is that I see the world only through my own eyes, experience sweet and sour through my tastebuds and hear the melodies of life through my ears. I can speak for no-one else, but then I can speak as part of the human race and my species…

    If I shoot one image across my lifetime that resonates with someone else in someway then well I have learnt the truth of that photograph in some form… if I can make an image that moves someone then I must have been moved to take it…

    I am not sure there are too many people that can explain the mechanics of the why’s and wherefores of either how the image is made or how it may affect people in a really specific way.

    I can say about PANOS and PATRICIA’s work that while they are not producing ‘classic’ photojournalism* there is something about both bodies of work that touches me enormously, there is the pathos and romanticism and such gentleness from both, I really feel involved not distant from it and so that makes me believe that photography can bring me into the world of people that I might never meet personally. Their work is through their eyes but speaks for us as humans…

    (*in the sense that the story they are following is that of their own lives, but maybe while the news mags may not be interested its what I love about ‘great’ photojournalism is that it gives an insight into other peoples lives.)

    I think there are degrees of how successful we all are, even the very astute and learned of us, at communicating what we feel through photography, but it is undoubtedly emotion that lies behind the best of photographs. Even if they are more ‘straight’ photojournalism the most powerful images convey something of the feeling that we have while we make them or view them.

    Anyway I hope that doesn’t sound too esoteric and arty-farty, but for me that is the greatest challenge of photography, to put something of myself in there that describes what I am feeling.

    I do know in the workshop we did in Bangers last year that someone made the comment about ‘always photographing yourself’ (might have been MR NACHTWEY) and I guess the art is to do that while telling a story as well… We are so lucky that someone like DAH is willing to even attempt to share that process, there are very few people on the earth that are as generous… I mean the guy is at the top of the game in the profession and here we are able to tap into his wisdom. I think I learnt the most of my entire life about photography at that workshop and do you know I hardly asked a question….


    Fabo report, I am hopeless with things like that, I mean I couldn’t report sanely and sit in a short party dress at the same time- its just too much multi-tasking! (hehehehe…) When’s the works going to be unveiled? I can’t wait much longer!!!!


    DAVID B.
    After your long post, i asked the dance company teacher if it was ok for publishing photos on my website, but it doesn’t seem to be possible…She’s a very particular person…Next time i’ll find a solution before shooting.
    Thanks for all.

    I like your Birgit photos – and the pdf and the opening text. The first time i saw your project, i was astonished; your photos have a power and a special look, and as you say, these are photos that don’t show something but express a feeling. Good luck!

    Sometimes we need to take a breath…not give up!!!

  • HERVE…

    Barthes, Sontag,Szarkowski…all terrific writers/philosophers/critics about the meaning and “placement”/acceptance of photography in the modern world..

    none of them are photographers or mentors to photographers at all…designators yes, mentors no…

    i am sure that NONE of the photographers they write about were influenced one iota by THEM or their critique of photography…

    nor would any of the above have even expected at all to be influences on photographers in terms of MOTIVATION TO PHOTOGRAPH IN THE FIRST PLACE…

    they wrote/curated AFTER the work was done and put it all in an intellectual/historical/aesthetic PERSPECTIVE …

    photographers/artists tend to be influenced in their work by other artists and life itself, not art critics…

    now it is true that Szarkowski, because of his power as curator at the Museum of Modern Art did create a WAVE OF ACCEPTANCE/ENDORSEMENT of certain photographers like Eggleston for example…but Eggleston was going to be Eggleston with or without Szarkowski…John made/discovered Bill in terms of his “placement” in the art world, and this surely created many “copiers” of Eggleston work, but William Eggleston was/is a singular creative force on his own..

    so, yes, photographs can be “written about”, but getting back to our little forum here, i think the best we can do is to unlock the inner Herve, figure out who he is, and get him to go out and create some work that reflects his personality and inner core…

    explaining intellectually the elements of a picture or the historical context of a photograph is still not what you have to LEARN…

    before the new Barthes or Sontag is going to write about your work, you need a gut level street level kick in the ass to pick up your camera and go out and make some pictures which will have all of us saying “ahh”……

    smell it Herve…it is all about smell…

    cheers, david


    well, yes taking a break may be wise…BUT, i am so so glad i did at least ask if we were on the same page…

    i just looked at your link that you just posted..

    it is 100% NOT what i saw when i had gone to your website before..some of the pictures were the same , but many were not..could i have somehow seen an “in between” edit of yours??

    i will get some coffee and go to this link above..

    cheers, david


    Glad we’re now on the same page! This is the link that on Saturday night when I’d posted asking you to check out my new possibilities. You must have clicked on my name instead. Yes, that was an earlier edit.

    PASSWORD patricia

    Thanks for your time…


  • CATHY :))

    this will be quick (promise) ’cause I know you want David’s input, so i’ll be brief. The story contains exactly what i was trying to suggest in my initial post (the one that got me in hotwater with y’all). It is a dreamlike series of images that are connected to the “wonder” and celebration and “love” that you feel toward the pagentry of the world, and especially the pagentry of children: maybe this is what i missed about the home-building project or the rodeo: the sense of wonder that is contained in this (love, again as you know the world in the context of your India photos)…it shows celebration and loving, not just intellectual approach (making a photograph look a certain visual way with the geometry of the frame and figures)…enough of that, i really really love picture #12: i really think it’s one of the best pictures i’ve seen in your work. It’s beautiful and also sad: a conflict of emotions: the child and yet she’s passing away from childhood and the mystery of all the figures…it is this isolation of her visually (including the use of depth of field and foreground imprecision) that makes this such a formidable and heart-rich image…it really is gorgeous….I also loved #2, 3, 7, 8, 14…for me 12, 7, 8, 3 (at a quick review-i looked 4 times too) are the stories that draw me in….

    i also would love to see more images around these girls…to get a feel for the fiesta..i like the boys shot, but almost want stuff that it not “obviously” about the parade: parents or environment (without the children)…the sense of where this takes place, besides all the shots of girls inwhite dresses….

    but, cathy it is beautiful and heart-felt work…really…

    so i am sure, david will give you even better insight :))

    HERVE:…it isnt about not liking you, it’s just that i remained continually perplexed why every time i write something you (sometimes with humour and sometimes with a patronizing condescension criticize for how i write or someone suggest i continually “misread” you…anyway, i am sorry if you felt i was inappropriately commenting. fair enough.


    that is what I had meant to write: eloquence wasn’t my forte yesterday ;)))…


  • DAVID:

    It was great to see you in Perpignan. It’s so easy to get a false sense of someone based on their online personality, so I have to say that it was a real pleasure to get to know you more in person. It gave me a new perspective and that was a good thing.

    I also saw the down side of celebrity status in Perpignan. I’m not one that likes too much attention and I got the sense that at times you don’t like it either, but you handle it quite well. I’m thinking freaky masks and hovering ex students, stalking wanabees girlfriends and such;-)

    I also wanted to thank you and let you know that your feedback on my story on African refugees in Spain was spot on and really helpful.

    As you suggested I went out and added more images of Barcelona to the story. The magazine editor I had been communicating with originally was considering it for a small section of the magazine, but in Perpignan she told me she wants to pitch it as a feature to the editorial board, so I have to give you a big thanks. If I send you a link later, will you give me your insight again as a “tried and true” editor?

    Also, I have some new project ideas. I was originally waiting because of the status of the never ending assignments, but I’ve got the itch now. I need to do something new!

    Thanks and all the best,


    That was a rhetorical question, my dear. NO ONE is better than you and I mean it.


    now this totally proves the fallibility of communicating on line…we must always go slowly slowly so as not to make even really simple mistakes either in syntax or in action…

    after opening and seeing your link above, i saw another whole world of your work ..NO WONDER YOU WERE DISCOURAGED….yes, if you thought i just picked two out of all of that, then anyone would be in a funk….

    ok, just so there is no confusion again, here are the numbers of pictures i chose…i included the ones i had already edited in Detroit just to be very very clear…still i could have missed something or would later take out something else, so this is a very basic rough edit….

    1,2,3,4,5,6,7,9,10,12,14(maybe),15,16,17(maybe),18,19,25,26,31,35,36,38,42,49,,52, 55, 57, 58…

    damn, not only do you have quite a few very very strong new pictures, but you have edited very well…it would have been easier for me to have taken out a few numbers rather than list the choices..

    now, please know this is not a gratuitous edit to just make you feel better…you knowing me, knowing you, etc could have you thinking i was just trying to get you out of the doldrums…

    yes, i would always want to make you feel better no matter what..but,i would make you feel better some other way, not by a trumped up edit..that would be cruel…

    this is a “straight call” based on pictures i had never seen before…maybe i should have , if i had clicked on the right link etc, but i had not…

    in an earlier comment, you said “take a break”..i said “take a break”…now, i say “do not take a break”….momentum is always hard to find….you have momentum….sure, go fishing with Ed…but, come back soonest…we have a lot of work to do…

    cheers, david


    correct insights on your part re:Perpignan…the so called “celebrity status” wears it should…however, if i do go to a public gathering like Perpignan, i go knowing full well what i am getting into…

    i cannot and do not expect to be sitting alone by candlelight with my girlfriend..if i want that, i will go someplace besides a photofest…

    and , honestly, i feel i do have a responsibility to talk with as many young eager photographers as i can in that environment..

    seeing new work and hearing new ideas is energizing…so i guess the point is, there are some disadvantages to a “public gathering” , but there is a whole positive side as well making the overall experience very worthwhile indeed…

    the gathering of our forum “tribe” was quite simply beautiful i thought…heartwarming…a catalyst for moving forward….

    now, yes, let’s take a look soonest at your Africa migration work…i love that story overall, so i am anxious to see what you have done with it….

    cheers, david

  • AKAKY: You see that, we’re like Godot.

    AKAKY IRL: And you think this is a good thing, dont you?

    AKAKY: Isn’t it? I like Beckett.

    AKAKY IRL: You would. Nothing ever happens in Beckett, and nothing much happens in Godot. Beckett’s a lot like Proust that way, except for the annoying parts about Albertine. If I need to think about the drabness and utter futility of life in general, I’ll just think about my life. It saves time and I dont have to check my memories out of the library.

    AKAKY: Jesus, you’re hopeless. And what’s this about selling Lisa for sausages? I hadn’t heard that one before.

    AKAKY IRL: I didnt sell Lisa for sausages, that’s just a damnable lie. I sold Bob to the butcher, who told me he was going to turn the boy into kielbasa and sell him at a Pulaski Day fair. His mother had abandoned us to seek fame and fortune in Ohio and I didnt know what else to do with him.

    AKAKY: And what about Lisa?

    AKAKY IRL: I sold her to a roving band of gypsy geographers. They told me they were going to the Antipodes to conduct research on how the people down there managed to stand upside down all day long without falling up and hitting the sky and they needed Lisa as a test subject.

    AKAKY: And you believed this cock and bull story?

    AKAKY IRL: No, not really. I just assumed that they were a gang of white slavers who’d get to Sydney and sell her off to the madam of the first brothel they could find.

    AKAKY: God, that’s awful, selling your daughter to such…such…people!

    AKAKY IRL: Yes, it is, but the money was too good to resist. I bought my first camera with the proceeds.

    AKAKY: You know, as a human being, you rate right up there with pond scum.

    AKAKY IRL: Ah well, nothing to be done about that, I’m afraid.

  • Akaly,
    Sold his daughter to a brothel for
    a Leica…
    ( hope at least it was updated with the
    newest firmware 2.000 )
    Peace & hugs.. 7:30 am in Hel(LA)..

  • David: I just got back from Perpignan a bit belatedly Saturday night here to New York. Can I come by this week? When might be the best time for you?



  • PANOS, No, it was a Canon Powershot p & s camera. It was a nice little camera and I’ve stuck with Canon ever since.

  • PANOS…



    i am here…please call me 202 413-1137 and we will work it out…

    cheers, david

  • Two Akaky’s for the price of one! I love it.


    I am sending a disk with my 3 slideshows on it to you, and I also want to mail KYUNGHEE’s map (won in the coffee consumption contest) in care of you since she will soon be there (and there’s a bonus NYC map she may find useful)… is it OK to send it to 475 Kent Ave. #402, Brooklyn NY 11211-5900, or is there a better mailing address to use?


    was going to try to write something helpful about the layout issue, but DAH has said it Better than I could… I admit I also ponder the existence of the transition images in a slideshow and though I understand why they are there, in viewing the slideshow my mind usually chatters “oh there is a transition image”..I tend to be terrifically old school, and I am trying to find if there is balance between limiting myself (for my own MM piece) to the stand alone images and allowing some framework / foundation images..for me these would need to be shot in a different way all together, and add something overall to the piece, though I think of them differently..but strong anyway, just not the same. But it sounds like you know which images to include, it comes down to a question of flow?

    There is an online magazine tool, I just emailed someone to find the name of it, but it might be an answer to sharing a (book / magazine) layout with others here..

    TOM H

    Greece looks the close up skateboard shot, the groom in lifted arms. Are you all digi? Is that Corn lily shot digital, for example? I’d have to guess yes, but well done..


    see you here..maybe we’ll end up at a workshop jam session together before the party..


    What of these jam sessions? Do they happen in the day or night??? Would love to witness them..

    Also DAH, are there workshops planned after Oaxaca? Is Oaxaca full yet? Don’t know if I could swing it, but it is calling me…


    Distracted and discouraged a bit? I know I owe you an email but I hope you’ll first answer my question about what might scare you to shoot..


    But I have more answers!!! It’s one hell of a list too.. :) I saw a pic of you at PERP and I thought shit! I want to be sitting there shooting the breeze with Charlie..


    I wish we could hang out for a day..No, nothing to show soon :(


    my favs are the kneeling girls, the girls sitting on laps, the one toward the end of the girl holding on to the red ribbon for the mood, and the one right after that with the people wearing things on their heads on the r hand side of the frame..


    I just don’t know what to make of the color treatment in the work that you linked to..very pretty but very very distracting to me. And I agree there is something off about the final the leg in the air shot, but in general they don’t feel right to me in this context of a story that references that x number of boys were murdered working in the sex trade in a given time period.

    MARC D

    enjoyed your work at the fiesta, nice to hear you writing here..


    whirlwind for you!

  • David

    Full frame leica M???

    If I have to choose new equipment or new trip I will choose trip, but my d200 is too big for me. I am thinking about some small point and shoot digi camera, and of course best choise is full frame digital leica M :)
    Best choice for Bill Gates’s son…
    or his cousin…
    or his nephew.. or dog…

    time to go out.



    Whew. That feels LOTS better. When I thought you’d only found 3-4 keepers out of 47 new pics it made me feel I was totally off track. But now I know I can just keep on keepin’ on.

    So glad I shared my feelings last night instead of holding my disappointment inside and not acknowledging it openly. If I’d stayed silent we wouldn’t have caught the fact that we were LITERALLY on different pages. It’s always important to speak directly but especially when trying to communicate online. Just written words with no access to tones of voice and body language makes it tough to get things right. But I’m relieved that we finally did. And that was thanks to your picking up on the possibility that we were looking at different links!

    There have been so many instances of missed communication of late it makes me wonder if Mercury is retrograde. Just checked. We’re on the cusp of retrograde (starts Sept. 23) so I guess it just kicked in early!

    Thanks again, David, for all the time you spent giving me this edit. I really was at a point where I needed some feedback. Now I’ll just keep looking for new views of my life. They show up at the oddest, most unexpected times. This project is such an exercise/adventure in self awareness.

    Hope you have a lovely Autumn Equinox. We here in Detroit are seeing a perfect sunny blue-skied autumn day!

    peace & hugs

  • CATHY….

    we are going to pretend now that you are in one of my workshops..this is the only way you are going to understand how to look at pictures and how to move yourself forward..

    ok, i will give you a quick critique…in exactly (well, almost) the same way i would in a workshop..

    first, what is this and what are your motives for shooting this??? long term project or just an event (looks like first communion)??

    by the way, what happened to rodeo??? and the rodeo girls??? i thought you were married to rodeo…??????? my assumption all along is that you are looking for or working on a long term personal assignment…

    first off, this looks like about two to four hours of your time…seems like preparing for communion and the fiesta after..where are the communion pictures if that is what it is???? it seems to me that would be KEY to this story..or maybe it is not communion..tell me , tell me…

    overall , you are shooting while standing back and looking at this are not quite in close or part of it…physically yes, but not in the sense of being emotional or sticking with the one part of it that would produce a truly powerful photograph..when you are shooting events in particular you must dissect and stick with the one thing that resonates…you have it “covered” but not coming away with anything particularly strong..if you disagree, what do you think is a strong picture??…one that would equal all of the strong pictures you have seen and studied from other photographers???

    now i would not expect more than one from such a short shoot…if you were more experienced , you might have 3 or 4…

    but let’s run right down the list:

    #1…good overall, but a “picture” of something, but not a “photograph” on its own…

    #2…no moment…what were you trying to say or to show??

    #3…i do not get what you are trying to show here…


    #5…nice moment, but with cluttered background that takes away from the barely discernible moment..

    #6…what is the moment???

    #7…nice portrait..but girl standing in background staring at the camera weakens the picture… backgrounds are just as important as foregrounds..

    #8….good, close…useable…see comment below for #10

    #9…i do not get the “reason” for this picture….

    #10..same as #8…this should have been THE picture…the scene is terrific…everything good…this is when you needed to “get in the zone” and make the photograph of the day…a four hour event always comes down to the right 2 minutes..this looks like IT just based on what i can see…wonderful background…all the elements there right in front of you….

    #11..poor light…no subject

    #12..nice moment…bad exposure….maybe can be saved with photoshop

    #13…good layering (multi subject juxtaposition layers) but no moment…

    #14 good…nice moment….has some energy and you were “in it”….

    #15..blowout light coming in the background…no real picture subject

    now, if this was the first day shoot of a class, i could see you moving forward easily…you are not so far off…in a class i could see you keying off the other student critiques etc…if you can stay with this subject, then we can try here on line to keep you going….slow but steady….

    let’s pretend we are in class…as it stands right you show it, i doubt i would use any of these pictures in my final student slide show…well, maybe number 8 or number 14, but barely…

    BUT, as i said, this looks like a “first day” shoot…you do not have much experience..rarely does a student get a really fine picture on the first day…i would expect no more than this from the first day…so the way to go now is to have you move on to a new day, a new shoot…can you stay on this subject????

    now, take this critique and match it with the slide show that will be coming up today or tomorrow from my loft class…or the one from taking critique and then looking at what has been deemed good, you will start to have a revelation…

    of course, opinions vary…particularly on specific pictures…but i think 90% of the editors agree 90% of the time…

    so, in conclusion…nice subject…very good subject….you were a bit tentative shooting, but that is normal for your experience level…you did not “get in the zone” at the crucial time…you must pace yourself…in a long four hour event you must realize when to “go for it” (#8,#10)..the one moment out of the whole thing where you can really symbolize and capture the essence…and then , of course, there are the random nuggets too like #14..

    now this critique is totally based on the classic photojournalism style you used…i think this style is not necessarily where you should be , but let’s get you at least started thinking..

    if you want to know where i think you could go, please look at the work of Ashe (the last essay in my soon to be posted student work)..

    peace et al, david


    the apt is #607…if it is just a cd sized package that will be ok..but if it is in any way large i would send it to Magnum…151 west 25th…5th floor ,…new york 10001

    i look forward to seeing and reviewing your work….

    cheers, david

  • CATHY…

    one last point…the photographer Ashe, whose work i want you to see, had absolutely zero pictures her first three days in class…

    three days is a long time to be with me in my loft with no pictures!!!.i mean NOTHING…

    then, the skies opened up, she caught on fire, she “got it” and well, please take note…

    cheers, david

  • ALL

    Is anyone else thinking what I’m thinking about the absence of our dear brother David Bowen the past two days??? Do you think maybe he and Beate’s little baby boy has decided to make his appearance into the world of us air-breathers? If so, let us hold them in good energy…

    grandma wantabe Patricia

  • DAVID:

    now, where’s my critique ;))))))))))))))))))))…(just joking amigo :)))))

    )…that’s a terrific no=holds-balls-up job you’ve done for Cathy…(i expect more gonna want the same too ;))) )……

    but now, get some rest!…u gotta say up drinking with me after your fiesta…

    bones coming to you …



    oh yes, one more thing on the above quikcrit for Cathy…i say this because it seems the three of you are most often not quite understanding my love of one body of work and not love for another…this is fair enough…

    so, i will be very specific…

    the critique for Cathy was based on her rather traditional photojournalism 101 coverage of an event…sort of newspaper classic style…

    what started all tirades yesterday was exactly why i liked the work from Venice Beach..certainly NOT the Cathy classic COVERAGE…ok, i see Cathy and others , one , two , three walking through an event…a, b, c, defg…..first one thing happens, then another, then another, with all of it being didactically photographed….that’s ok , but still you need the KILLER picture..the one that would be in the newspaper or Natgeo or whatever….because any of those publication would only use ONE from this you have to think ONE great picture somehow…

    Venice Beach is not COVERAGE..not photojournalism per se , but still BEARING WITNESS…not conjured…yes,documentary, but as Frank Sinatra would say “with feeling this time”..Panos is not PROFESSIONAL..probably would not do well at a newspaper…but, nor would Koudelka or even Salgado…Panos (your example for the question ) is just LIVING this story…it is about his life, his friends, his experience…he feels it , shoots it (not always so great), but because it is so so so personal he does come up with some amazing work..the kind of work that can only be personal..the kind of work that screams HE IS THERE Winogrand,like d’Agata, like some Frank and Friedlander….those guys are not “good professional photographers”..give them an event to shoot for a magazine and they would “fail”..let them do want they want and they are brilliant…

    now Sidney, i think you are totally “well educated” and know all there is to know about who is who and what is what and who has done what…Herve and Cathy, i still do not think i can do a perfect critique for you because i am not so sure you have the references..

    Herve, i just gotta nail you on this one since you do drop “names” on this site, but when i brought you into the Magnum annual event in Paris and introduced you to some icons in the history of photography , you did not know who they were….and you are French!!!

    anyway, i am committed to all three of you..just as much as i am to Panos, Kyunghee, Erica, Rafal, Patricia etc etc..but you have to do your part….you have to shoot, you have to be doing what they are doing in order for me to give you an well balanced critique…

    those folks mentioned above are all working ALL THE TIME…giving me things to think about..shooting, shooting ,shooting…surely , you may see how i might spend a certain kind of time with them…my obligation actually since i want to mentor all of them to books, shows etc..

    i would and will do the same for any of you, once you have the photographs…and NOT in the style of Panos…in YOUR style…but your style manifested from totally committed work..

    peace, hugs, david

  • David, I/we went way over what my first question entailed, hearing a few more words on a student’s work.

    If spoken by the fridge or on the roof, a beer in hand, the same drifts in the conversation would not register as die-hard argumentative as it does black on white here.

    Black? ;-)

  • AKAKY: I wonder how come I don’t rate a critique like Cathy got.

    AKAKY IRL: Because you suck, that’s why.

    AKAKY: Oh…well, I knew there had to be a reason.

  • David

    re:Look3 Slide Show

    Reading your comments to Cathy reminded me of something that I noticed right after Look3. I don’t know if anyone else is having this problem but I think there may be a technological glitch in the quicktime files you are using in the videos on your site. The NatGeo video doesn’t load at all…the Look3 and EPF slideshows freeze up usually between KyungheeLee and Sean. I’d really like to see the videos and have tried several times, but it might be worth checking to see if anyone else is having problems with these. I’m using Safari on a mac.

    I hope this helps.


  • Charlie,
    Maybe run Software Update and see if there’s anything new for Quicktime?

  • ahh patricia.. still waiting lovely..
    we are waiting.. beate and the bean have been listening to soothing music today.. music which will comfort him when he does decide to drop upon us.
    thanks for the thoughts.. you will all know when it happens :o)

    i’m staying out of the general chatter going on right now.. although i want to post… want to..

    ahh, hell.. i’m bound to get involved and i don’t want to because i think it’s daft.

    i’m happy here.. i get little attention from david, bar his first and encouraging comment on my editing… which is ongoing.. and that’s cool-and-the-gang with me.. it’s just right actually.
    because i expect nothing and when gems appear from no-where it’s a bonus..

    i think it’s important to take nothing for granted here – i’m not insinuating anything, directing towards anyone.. however i think it’s good enough to hear the DAH opinion on things, without asking him to tailor his opinion to our own expectations.. because we all have different needs and he needs to have a career outside us.

    after all – we can probably get a handle on the subtleties of opinion by reading the silences as well as the notes.. and as photographers surely we can work out why a single photo works for us while another does not?

    over a beer – face to face.. perhaps things would not become complicated.. here, however, they do..

    i have friends on here, i hope.. and that’s what i return here for i think – their commentary on the daily daily.. their inspiration on the moment to moment..

    and as the wheels on the bus go round and round it’s great to know that someone with the dedication of a life spend image making is over-viewing us and talking to the people producing as and when they produce.

    that is – talking to the people producing as and when they produce..

    so can we get back to feeling grateful for this place and cut the crits on crits?

  • also –
    using firefox 3
    in norway
    on mac

    the menu drop-down tabs on the main site are not staying open long enough to click on anything..
    they appear on a roll-over of mouse, then vanish into thin air.

    liking the new ‘splash-page’ photo by the way.
    my fav colour.

  • BOB…

    omg, if anyone gets NEGLECTED by me on this site it is YOU…


    because you seem so self-sufficient….totally in control (even though surely you are not!)…i rarely respond to you because you are so so busy responding to others and just helping me out in every way…

    i hope you know how much i appreciate all of your hard hard work here on the forum….i will let you know in person soonest….

    hugs, david

  • D’agata if f..king genius!

    Antoine is Francis Bacon of photography.

  • David, Magnum. Ok, I was late (you know what, not for being bad-ass as someone mentionned here, but from anxiety. I always get anxious when there are many people, especially luminaries, then I warm up. A bit like stage fright I guess), and did not meet the people at the best time possible.

    Your recollection is not mine. You introduced me to only 2 people, Elli Reed and later on to elliot (while I was speaking with him about his suspenders!). None of them are french, but Erwitt’s photography is familiar to me. A living legend. there may be another one, but you have not introduced me to one french person that night.

    Yes, I do not place magnum photographers spot on 100%, and especially by face (how could I, I do not own “Magnum story”). It’s not by fault of not looking at so much photography on the site. Just the way my brain processes info. Some is well memorized knowledge, and some… well, some is SMELL!


  • David McGowen

    No, I’m up to date on updates, so that’t not it. Are the videos running fine for you?

    Techology is a Pandora’s box sometimes.

  • HERVE…

    ok, i was not talking just about French photographers, although i did introduce you to d’Agata and you seemed not to know him…i know you asked who he was…i only used the “and you are French” because the French invented photography!!!!

    no big deal Herve….

    cheers, david

    cheers, david

  • Charlie,

    The videos always take forever to load for me, but once they’ve loaded they run fine….

    On the mouse-over buttons, with mine if I go outside the “box” of the drop-down, it vanishes….

  • Charlie

    Seem to be running fine for me, though Booze, Blues, etc streams a bit slower than it should. Might have something to do with that, but can’t say for sure.


    You’re in great comment and critique form, so keep rolling with that, but be sure and find the comp I emailed you. It’s important we keep moving with that too.

  • Dear Sidney,

    어제 편지를 보냈습니다.
    확인해보십시요. 너무너무 감사합니다.


  • Can I buy everyone a virtual beer about now?


    your waiting sounds delicious..and your advice on gratitude is heart warming..


    thank you for the extended words for Cathy, I picked a few earlier from the series that I thought offered something beyond the others, but what drew me to them was more a sense again of possibility, and less about the images being ‘ringers’..But I didn’t offer any words to back up why I chose those, and I see now that it probably isn’t helpful at all to do is better to say what one is feeling as directly as is possible..I am guessing if Cathy and I are anything alike your words may sting a bit for the moment, but as anyone who has met you (including Cathy) must know it is all in the service of the individual and where that individual wants to go..


    The viewing magazine thing is called is a sample of Nicola Frioli’s need to make a pdf first if you want the world to be able to see yours..


    so good to hear the ALLARD report kicked you into gear..

  • 37 MP LEICA announced today!!!????
    37 MP???????
    Thirty fucking seven????

  • I knew his name but not his work so much, though I am sure I would have concealed that, beacuse I knew he has been lauded here on the blog as a genius.

    I dunno, I remember telling myself i was not going to bug you all night to tell me who that is here, and there too. It was just a night where whatever face recollections I could have did not work very well.

    It was a funny energy that night, incredibly positive, but I did not feel like talking (well, except answering these cops outside the doors!!!!).

  • DAVID (AH): :))))

    GOD, no worries brother…i was teasing ;)))…i dont need a critique, just a long chat and drinks…and yea: the self-sufficiency…totally, what else can i do, except keep working keep working keep working (meditating meditating meditating, drinking drinking drinking, arguing arguing arguing (i really hope to have a drink with herve some day in person))…:))))…

    you don’t owe me anything, just keep doing what you are doing…and i’ll keep making pics and writing :))))

    gotta run…almost finished with the edit…i’ve written michael to see if i can send to him the whole series via FTP


    p.s. marina is excited to see u …:)))))

  • 37!!!!
    A litlle more than a Hassie..
    A little more than medium format..
    MARCIN was right..
    Welcome to tomorrow..
    ( that was it.. I’m moving to Solms Germany..
    Lucky Lassal ;-). )

  • MARC D, welcome; good that you enjoyed the workshop. I particularly like your Black and White work.

    ERICA, thanks for the description of DAH slideshow – like being there!

    PANOS, 1 and 10 for me. A little too loose for my taste overall as I like more structure but hey – that’s just me! I do like the sense of atmosphere that permeates all of your work (wow, two big words in one sentence)!

    I just watched the Bruce Gilden video that someone posted: it was great, thanks.

    AKKAY, yellow-bellied whistle blower, couldn’t let it pass without comment.

    Mike R.



    DAVID (DAH):


    gotta run…late



    you are mistaken; I just now opened a brown cardboard box that my lovely UPS driver handed to me after climbing my stairs, and lo and behold inside were many smaller boxes of cardboard, and inside each of speak your language.. is a roll of 100% alive, tantalizing, open, ready and willing FILM…

  • Last from me about this: you are right anyway, David. I admit that even after looking at every photographer portfolio on the site, some just does not stick precisely in my memory, or in too much a fragmentary manner.

    I really would like to hear as other people on the blog are doing, on this topic of knowing so many photographers works.

    PS: David, you introduced me (maybe Antoine) as the “intellectual” on the blog. I protested that and well, now for sure, my cover has just been blown: I was, am and will ever be a dunce.

  • PANOS,
    Hassie has 50mp and Phase One has 60mp, both on larger sensors, so Leica’s not there and they shouldn’t either. The S2 is unique in so many other ways, but probably out of mosts price range unfortunately..
    Regarding film dying, it’s not about how large sensors are released and how many mp they have. Film is another way of working and about a different look. It will never “die”. For technical reasons digital has been better for a long while.



  • GROKKLESNORP! As vile and disgusting a word as ever disgraced the dictionary of unmentionable words!


    Here’s the link to David’s new edit of my work.

    God but you have the eye!!! When I see them all together it makes perfect sense. Sure some of my special babies didn’t make the cut but now I see why. If I want that activity, ie., swimming, working out at the gym & driving my wheelchair accessible minivan, to make it into this project it’s up to me to take a photo that will sing. And I’ll keep at it till I get it right!

    Not sure if my sequencing works, but you can let me know if changes should be made. I’ve AGAIN changed the title–a never-ending activity–and have included the text of my new Declaration of Independence. Would love to know how that sits with folks.


    I never could get any of the movies to come up on my former 2002 iBook. Now that I am using a new MacBook Pro, the movies show beautifully. Hope you can work it out as those movies are SPECTACULAR!


    Will continue to hold you three in good birthing energy. Thanks for responding to my post. And your take on things around here is wise and balanced as always. We’ll make our way through these prickly times ’cause we’re family and that’s what counts.


  • 30x45mm sensor 37mp.
    Maybe it will be as revolution in photography as M cameras made.

    And leica AG will sell 4 this very expensive cameras only
    one will buy Bill Gates’s son…
    one his cousin…
    or his nephew.. and one dog…

    But I wish m8.2
    Just modest dreams… :)

  • Erica & Martin
    I didn’t mean to hurt anyone’s feelings..
    Please don’t shoot the messenger..
    ( I remember I got slapped once when I announced
    a friend of mine the death of CASSETTE TAPES..
    due to the cd and later the iPod )..
    Sorry it’s not my fault
    (.. Not my fault the disappearance of the
    Dinasaurs either …;-)))
    Just kiddin!
    You know I don’t care how you shoot!!?
    A Leica or a Pinhole or just your mind..
    When you Dont shoot..
    Peace & love
    Fuck tech talk..
    (DAH, no money, but I’m selling the car…
    :-))) )

    (… Also the king ELVIS is dead)
    LOL ..
    Does that mean the music is over??
    ( .. Damn, I’m in a good mood today ..)

  • Fair warning – drives die – I just had one go down for no apparent reason. Luckily it was just my second backup.

  • one last thing..
    I almost lost my driving license last night..
    in Venice…
    But.. Here I am again.. Typing and driving..
    I promise…( there is a new twist.. But later..)

  • PANOS,
    You should do some stand-up! ;)

  • Talking about full frame, the “5D nouveau” est arrive:

  • I said: But I wish m8.2… damn… but I don’t have glass-case!!

    I need just small camera but I need old fashioned shutter speed dial.


    Thanks everyone for taking the time to look at and comment on the images I posted. My general feeling is that here “no attention is bad attention” (like they say with PR) because my intention is that something good comes out of ANYthing that is said.

    Of course it’s a lot easier and more fun to hear the good stuff! :))

    I’m glad that for a change questions are being asked of me…”she who asks questions”…

    I have to agree with David’s take that what I showed in the slideshow looked like “coverage” of the event, which was a Hispanic Fiesta, not a communion. Every other photographer attending (and several did work for newspapers or other publications) was outdoors covering the dancing. Once I got inside the house I did not want to leave and would have sat on that sofa all day…except for the fact that there were only people in the house for a few minutes a couple of times TOTAL throughout the day….the rest of the day was entirely centered on the dancing out in the street…which did not especially interest me…photography-wise.

    Most of the photos in my final edit were of the girls in the living room…I like a lot of them but rather than showing many of the same type shots I instead chose to post a bunch of images that were NOT my favorites, primarily for the purpose of “setting the scene”…which I guess was a mistake. :((

    My point being only that it was not my intention to “cover” the event. I only made it look that way after the fact!

    YES…this is an ongoing project!!! A fiesta like this will not happen again till next year but in the meantime there are others….next in December. For the most part they take place outdoors (so maybe no more sofas) but I will continue to attend and photograph.

  • ok back home from a long day work, time to dive in here… lots of stuff to look & respond!


    been a while since we chatted dear :)) i looked at your new edit and more and more it really fits together… don’t ask me how or what, it just feels really really good. i keep on smiling and going back to number 23… the look in your eyes and the smile on your face is magnetic :)))

    read the text as well, about the declaration, and it makes a lot of sense too. though the language you use there felt different to the one you use here when you write… did i sense that correctly? for me the declareation was quite “hard” to read, like i really had to concentrate… i don’t know if that was intentional, or if it’s just tired ol’ me after my work day… beautiful nonetheless..

    great stuff you’re building up there…


  • MARC davidson

    welcome… and you’re right right off the bat, the journey is just beginning…

    enjoy the ride :)))



    Thanks, bro. Your opinion means a lot to me. Regarding my Declaration of Independence I should have realized it would not mean the same thing to non-Americans as to Americans. I based it loosely on our 1776 Declaration of Independence from England. Here’s a link to that document:


  • You lost me here again, Cathy. I refrained from posting about what i saw because just something was not “on”, or right, in what you linked.

    Please, do not feel like you have to reply, but as you did last year, you are telling us you did not put the best or favorite ones, just “setting the scene”…

    ?!?!? what does this mean, why? (again, do not reply if you don’t wish, I am quite apt at not “getting it” and left simmering!)

    Is this some kind of S&M routine you impose on yourself?

    Obviously, if the work was in progress, that would be an intro only and judgement would not quite be of the hour. But the fiesta is over, and I am not certain if you are making excuses for yourself, fending against David’s critiques the same way you did last year, but I read that you are not giving us the real work, or there is no real work, actallly you showing us what you did not intend… david’s critique is nice, but now you tell him/us it’s not really about what you did that day….


  • DAVID…

    I am truly grateful that you have taken so much time and energy to help me. You really are one hell of an Ambassador of Education!

    I am “taking in” all that you have said…

    One comment now though is regarding subject matter. One “problem” I have, if you want to call it that is that a lot of the subjects I am interested in shooting, and YES I am interested in long-term personal projectS…is not available on a daily basis along the lines of the projects of Panos and Patricia.

    Rodeo for example…yes I do want to do more Rodeo related shooting but there is not so much available here. I am researching a bullriding competition that is coming up but I have not shot rodeo for the last six weeks. Now with Fiesta…same thing…there will be more to shoot in December, maybe also in a couple of weeks there will be an hour of shooting possible. So it seems I can continue this work but also need to find something else. Something CLOSER. I’ve also been shooting Native American related stuff throughout the summer but again…not always available.

    I will be in California starting end of October and will again have access to surf culture…an old passion of mine…and fairly available in one form or another in Southern CA :))

    p.s. Wanted to share this one additional image…along the lines of the other where you didn’t like the background. The foreground is probably too “posey” but I love the ladies in back. I get a lot of that…great background, not great foreground or vice versa…


    I am not being defensive or making excuses in my comment. I DID post many of my favorite images but in editing added a few to make the posting “essay-like” and realize now that was not necessary. I thought I needed to add some context…David did not care for it and now I see that he was correct. I was AGREEING with him. Is that S and M? Maybe!!! :))

  • JEAN
    thanks :))) will need the luck…


    did i miss meeting you in perpignan? i missed Gina, Lassal, and now also you? i really did get late to the party i guess…


    yes you are spot on… had a hard time editing, but i hope that is in the past now… i will go back ONCE more to see if i missed anything in my contacts, but yes my next hurdle is, as you say, “getting the flow right”…

    i looke d at your link and it seems like a great tool!!! i will try it out rightaway, i hope ther is some way to “open” a project up to others, so they can help sequencing… now that would be ultra cool :-)


    GROKKLESNORP! that sounds like a song from sigur ros

    oh no, wait… that’s “gobbledigook” :))


    i’m dying for the allard report too…

  • David; I thought I’d re-post this in case you missed it.

    “I don’t know if you remember, but I mentioned a while ago that Mr Allard supplied a quote for an article I wrote. Well he said to contact again him if I wanted. Well, I never really did, not wanting to bug him.

    After I got back from Timor I emailed him and asked if he’d give me a critique, well I received it today. It’s amazing how one thing can get you up an running again.

    The critique was HARD, but honest & fair. Now all I want to do is to go out and do better, & put the critique into practice!!!”

    Herve asked me to post the critique so everyone can learn, are you ok with that?



    how was the fishing? missed you here in the weekend my man.

  • HERVE…

    Hope that last comment explained it for you but also…

    “so david’s critique is nice, but now you tell him/us it’s not really about what you did that day”…..

    NOT AT ALL… It IS what I did that day. I was discussing my editing process…which I am always learning more about. I still don’t think I should have submitted several photos that were very similar so would not have done anything different except eliminating the “event coverage” type shots…which is something I learned thru his critique.

    ISN’T THAT THE POINT? THAT DAVID CRITIQUES US AND WE LEARN FROM IT? So I learned…I have no problem with this process and now hopefully either do you!


    oh no, now i feel stupid :))) of course i should’ve realized!!! haha how could i have missed that one (even if not being American…)

  • ROSS…

    PLEASE post the Allard critique. You are saying it is HARD, honest and fair…Sounds like the one I just got from David! :))

    Your response to your critique is exactly the same as mine…

    “Now all I want to do is to go out and do better, & put the critique into practice!!!”

    I am especially interested to read an Allard critique because the night before I shot the fiesta (that David just critiqued) I had a 40% off coupon at Borders and the book I bought was Allard’s Portraits of America. Looking thru that book was what got me to make my way from out on the street into the house…which was what made the day. Without Allards push I would have been outside with every other photographer.


    드디어 보내주신 편지를 반갑게 받았어요. 고맙습니다.
    아까 변신 을 보내 드렸어요.

  • ROSS…

    P.S. You probably want to know…I’ve tried several times to access your link and the server is always busy. That’s why although I am on LS I just started showing images thru Flickr…at least people can see them there.

  • Okay, all, the following is a sampling of one quinceanera. I dont think this even counts as a rough edit; these are just the ones I liked at first glance.

  • PANOS,
    You should do some stand-up! ;)

    Posted by: Martin Brink | September 22, 2008 at 02:58 PM

    only YOU really, understand me …;-)
    thank you again…
    ( although im not funny at all, stand up is what i should do… )

  • Cathy;

    I’ve been having problems with the server, so have uploaded the pics to Lightstalkers.
    The other page was just a temporary one until the site goes live.

    The lightstalkers link is working ok though.


  • DAH SAID… for my sis PATRICIA:

    “…ok, just so there is no confusion again, here are the numbers of pictures i chose…i included the ones i had already edited in Detroit just to be very very clear…still i could have missed something or would later take out something else, so this is a very basic rough edit….

    1,2,3,4,5,6,7,9,10,12,14(maybe),15,16,17(maybe),18,19,25,26,31,35,36,38,42,49,,52, 55, 57, 58…

    damn, not only do you have quite a few very very strong new pictures…..”

    YOU SHINE….. do you want my critique????
    ( kidding! fuck what i have to say…;-)))))))))

  • DAH on Patricia again…

    “…so be discouraged!!! for about an hour!!!

    then kick in that go get em attitude that keeps you going everyday…think how lucky you are that you have a medium and a way of expressing yourself as no other…think of the inspiration you will be to others…

    you have come this far, you cannot stop now!!!

    peace, hugs, love, david…

    Posted by: david alan harvey | September 21, 2008 at 11:11 PM…”

    PAT… you?, YOU ? discouraged ?????


    only YOU really, understand me …;-)
    thank you again…
    ( although im not funny at all, stand up is what i should do… )”

    Shoot, Panos, I really thought you were RAPPING!!!
    All you long texts with the capital letter words in between… for me they were like lyrics to rap songs :)))))

    peace and love


    “변신” 이 안이어라, “반신” (회답) 이랑 맞아요. 미안해요.


    daily backup just kicked in, so the script is working… site is safe with Tom & me :)))



    ( HERVE said )
    “…Obviously, if the work was in progress, that would be an intro only and judgement would not quite be of the hour. But the fiesta is over, and I am not certain if you are making excuses for yourself, fending against David’s critiques the same way you did last year,..

    Herve, tell it like it is… TELL IT LIKE IT IS…
    Cathy with all my respect…
    first im no teacher, therefore i have no idea what
    im talking about to begin with… NO IDEA ( I insist…)
    but, i need to be super honest, for that last link… you provided…
    All i will say is that for a second
    i thought im in the wrong website…
    i thought i was looking at work of my friend Pedro…
    WEDDING Photographer extraordinaire,….
    ( poor Pedro… he also shoots STRAIGHT passport photos for a living…!)

    Cathy, honestly, cmon now…. i prefer your older rodeo stuff…

    and dont complain about me or Pat that we chose “easier”
    subjects…. or essays….
    what would you expect me to do…
    that appears once every 75 years….????
    once again Cathy, stop immitating the dead NATGEO,
    and free yourself… put yourself out there, BE BRAVE,,…
    I see nothing but FEAR and WESTERN CONFORMISM in your photos…

    it looks like you are shooying TIED IN A WHEELCHAIR?????

    and she is shooting from a motherfucking wheelchair….
    think about that god damn it…
    think and think…
    (laughing coz i know what is going to follow)
    ( the only way i compare you to Pat… is not photo skills,( dont get me wrong- you got all the skills…)
    but lack of bravery and lots of fear…

  • I do not think david ever said to eliminate event coverage as a M.O. of any essay (in the case of an essay about an event of course), Cathy.

    I think you told us you were not interested in covering the event, and indeed we see nothing of the fiesta. I am a bit perplexed why that isn’t so but I respect your choice (I am a backstage freak myself, after all, but say dance and I am out there too!).

    Probably, I will not read back, David found again (as to so many here) that some shots were “added without adding nothing over all”. I will look again, but as far as that room, all your shots were context-based, even the portraits were within a wider embrace of the room.

  • That was replying to Cathy, above….

  • Now, AKAKY here… did something GREAT….
    straight , but loose…
    Cathy…. look at Akaky’s last work… very similar to yours… BUT way more loose, free… connected..
    right on Akaky

  • and she is shooting from a motherfucking wheelchair….

    Now I understand that smile on her face, Panos! And so, Pat, you are doing rodeo as well?….


    PS: Sorry, Pat, I hope it was not too offensive. It’s Panos’s fault.


    “Cathy, stop immitating the dead”

    Then I won’t be “imitating” ? It might be easier than dealing with your smack-talk all day. :)) I think that’s what I’ll do. FOR PANOS.

    C’mon guys…give me a break! Although Panos you do make me laugh. Comedian is right.

    Panos I have never said that what you and Patricia are doing is easier, have I? Venice is “available” to you. Patricia’s life is “available” to her. GOOD FOR YOU!!! I WISH I had something like that. In fact I just wrote to David about it. Great, you’ve got something good going. Do you need to rub in it and brag about it to others who don’t?

  • I just saw that shot from AKAKY a few minutes ago and liked it.
    I like #12 too.

  • I have to believe Herve is right.
    I MUST be a masochist to participate in these conversations.


  • with all my love to Cathy…
    we are BOTH masochists and photo lovers….
    we cant take this “right” from eachother….
    all i said… i didnt like the last link…
    plus im a ( not funnY – self taught comedian )…
    if you ever met me… you would have loved me…
    you know how many times people here admit that this photo
    of mine or that… sucks… its weak… and %99 i agree…
    i have venice links with 20 photos and only ONE is ok.!
    so fucking what…..
    keep shooting… last something ive seen something from you was 20 years ago… cmon…
    post links & talk
    post photos & talk….
    to me you sound that you think you are somekind of
    photo genius so you dont need to shoot or practice much…
    even Einstein wrote two books ( not just one ) about the theory
    of relativity…! even Einstein tried hard… Cathy…
    this photos on your link seems like the work of a PRO
    photographer shooting to get paid…

    that is the “problem”…( money shots to get paid- & nothing wrong with that…)
    now about your “threats” about leaving and done and gone…
    this is typical ” girlfriend in love “… shit…
    go ahead GO… i didnt know i had so much “power”..
    in here…
    ( but , you know you won’t go… and you know what you shouldn’t..! You know you were here before me…;-) )

    …… baby , please dont go, down to New Orleans,baby
    please dont go……

    love & peace from LA…!

  • PANOS…

    I’m not gone yet…and I don’t mean that I’m going FOREVER…much to the dismay of some folks who are probably sick of this crap…
    I just don’t feel like sticking around here NOW discussing this. I’ve got too many other things to do.

    I appreciate what you are trying to do…motivate me I suppose…in your own special way :))…but it’s been a rough day and I’ve had enough. For now.

  • yeeeeees ,
    tough love kinda motivation… this is what my family
    my teacher use to beat the hell out of me at school…
    thats why i ended up LOOSE, pathetic and SLOW…
    who would hire me? for the PERFECT WEDDING???
    think about it…

  • Cathy…
    Venice is AVAILABLE to me ??????
    since when???????
    I drove 120 MILES YESTERDAY to make it to Venice…
    is this AVAILABLE…. please
    DO NOT FUCK WITH ALL MY EFFORTS about my venice odyssey
    got Addicted, lost my girlfriend twice… dead friends ,
    things i should keep my mouth shut… got beaten up and ridiculed..
    i can talk about my mistakes and “fatalities” around venice forever..
    ( venice is there open for you too… anytime… JUST FIND IT ..
    YOU WILL PHOTOGRAPH IT WELL…so please, go stare at
    my Venice once more, then forget it… and GO FIND YOURS..

    peace and love for real

  • ok, i am not sure where to begin…. just caught up from last night and …. wow. i will try to remember all my thoughts as i read through all of the threads…

    I agree with what David said (re: Cathy’s work) and felt the same way – but am more careful (or afraid) of being too honest – but i have been in david’s classes before – and you need his honesty to push you, inspire you, free you….

    CATHY – please do not go. i will not pretend to understand how you feel right now. but as Erica said – i am sure it stung a bit. i have been there too.

    I did not want to share this with this forum just yet – but what the hell…. I called DAH last week and told him I was thinking of quitting photography and maybe even my Mexico project. There was just silence on the other end from him. It was probably a rash decision on my part, a bit of a bruised ego, or maybe even what i needed/wanted to hear – i don’t know. i had recently done an edit of about 40 images from my Mexico project. I showed DAH in perpignan and he gave me his usual honesty, support, encouragement and excitement. David has always loves this project and has been VERY supportive of it (and i probably count on that too much). I have also been fortunate enough to show many editors at NatGeo – not for publication – but for feedback only. Mostly all positive – maybe because they know me…. who knows. On the way home from perpignan i showed one of the editors who i was traveling with. i told him what my intent was – not for the magazine, just his honest feedback and that is what i got. he was not overly enthusiastic with it. i take that back – he likes the subject very much – just not my style and was critical of my skill level. i told myself that i was not upset – and i honestly do not think i was. i just was not expecting that feedback. i have been used to positive feedback and was expecting (wanting) the same…

    i have said this many times before – my priorities and interests have changes a lot in the last 2 years – with my job and LOOK. maybe that is what i needed to hear to tell me that maybe it’s ok to walk away from photography (shooting side of it). david made me feel better, and i left for mexico a few days later WITHOUT my camera. it was exactly what i needed. i do think i will not continue shooting like a used to (stock photography for the NG Image Collection) – but only work on my project and that is all.

    So i am saying Cathy – we have all been through it – the stings and/or knock downs. But we just have to pull ourselves back up and power through. when i heard his comments – my initial thought was to quit – i don’t want that type of rejection in my life. but that was the wrong attitude. i need to embrace it all….


  • Ok, one more think i forgot to mention. We all have our Venice. I have been working on my Mexico project for 6 years and let me tell you that is not in my backyard. before LOOK came into my life, I went down every 3 months – not so much now. But i made the most of every trip. I have shot in more than 30 places. I have never felt distant from it. when i was not there, i was editing, etc. then it would be time to go down again.

  • panos bro

    you have heart my man… someday i will be able to dive in as 100% as you do… no as 200% as you do… your energy just radiates through your words… i feed off of it, it charges me, gets me psyched up and makes me realise i only live one life and i’m freakin’ living it now….




    not tomorrow

    before this year is over i will meet you again, and we will have duvel again. that is a promise. now SPIT in your hand and shake mine!

  • GINA

    words of wisdom… didn’t know you went through this all… never saw an image of you in my life, just what david told me about ‘this girl Gina who is doing a great project in mexico’ and this mythical story sort of started leading its own life in my head… and for some reason, once in a while i think “how would gina be doing on her mexico book?”

    now isn’t that STRANGE?

    oh and the quote

    “we all have our Venice”

    is destined to become a classic here

    lots of love to you

    (and to you too cathy!!!)

  • GINA…

    I’m still here! :)) Wasn’t planning to write again but how could I not say anything after your sweet, supportive comment and an equally great one from Erica via e-mail.

    David was tough with me but I am here FOR HIM and will accept anything he has to say. No problem. I was only leaving the blog…not photography (FOR TODAY) because although I said that whatever comments were directed at me would be fine…after Herve and Panos I’d certainly had enough for today…maybe even for a few days!!! That’s all…no big deal. Just a rough day and you’re right, rough days can make you stronger and better.

    more on the way…

  • Hi everyone;

    With all this talk of critiques I’ll post the one that Mr Allard gave me. Hopefully David doesn’t mind me posting it.

    I’ve followed David’s advice and have tried to get opinions from one or two people I respect and trust (David & Mr Allard).

    First off, when you stick your head above the parapet you’ve got to expect a bit of incoming…. After reading about Mr Allard’s workshops/critiques I knew what to expect. I REALLY wanted to attend his LOOK 3 workshop but the US is a LONG way from NZ & at this stage couldn’t justify the cost.

    He didn’t pull any punches and that’s the way I want it, I don’t want a critique that tells me what I want to hear. There’s no way of improving that way. I’ll be taking both David and Mr Allard’s critiques onboard and hopefully produce better, stronger, more distinctive work.


  • Critique #1;

    Dear Ross,

    I’ve just read your biography and I’ve looked at the pictures. Let me address the photographs, all of which are technically fine but very few are arresting in a way that takes them beyond the ordinary.

    You talked about the long rows of tents, etc. but one sees no true overall image that produces a sense of place. In a number of pictures you caption them as being outside “a wrecked building,” yet nothing in the image depicts a building that has been “wrecked.” You have concentrated on children for the most part and because children can be very accepting and open, I expect more in terms of really interesting moments and I see very few.

    Your compositions tend to be static, again, little sense of place, no dynamic or tension in your handling of space. There is nothing showing the Task Force Police and I would think that would offer a contrast necessary to show a larger view of the situation.

    You are probably working too tight, going for portraits of large eyed, attractive little kids who are bound to illicit sympathy from the viewer (the portrait of the two sisters, one with eye infection is quite nice) but you don’t take it beyond that.

    When you are in a place where your subjects are accepting and there is no real way for them to avoid you, you owe it to the subjects to truly dig and push yourself to make images that are special.

    I think your work on the women is weak. They will probably be harder than the kids, less accepting at first, more time may be necessary to enter into their space but that’s what makes the difference between an essay that makes one feel one has been there and somehow felt the emotions of that place and its inhabitants and an essay that has done well in terms of showing the surface, the faces, but not really the place and who these people are and what their lives are like. You have to dig deeper, look harder.

    I wish you the best in your future work.

    Bill Allard

    Second email, I think he was feeling a little sorry for me!!!

    Dear Ross,

    Feel free to send some work along now and then. I can’t always get to it right away but I’ll try. What I say isn’t gospel, of course, but I’m doing you no favours by being less than candid. I didn’t say your pictures are bad and that’s a good start. The world is full of bad pictures and you’re not adding to them. I wish you the best in growing and adding to work of excellence.

    Bill Allard

  • ross

    thanks for sharing that… that really is an insightful critique… what did you do with the critique? did you gather strentgh from it? did you go out with a different eye and shoot some more? did you feel like you learned out of it?

    again, really cool for sharing this


  • GINA again…

    I also love the Venice comment. I HAD a Venice. It was India and it has been my passion since 1995 but I could only get there once a year and was doing travel photography. Not that I was even at that for so long…I started out with a point and shoot when I first went there and slowly developed a serious interest in photography. Anyhow…I know what “having a Venice” feels like but now I’ve just moved to New Mexico and have to find a new Venice…so I’m a bit lost and trying to find my way and with the help of kind people such as yourself, David and others here…even Panos with his tough love… I know it’s going to happen.

    Thanks so much for sharing your experience. It was really good for me to hear.

    Also it’s nice that at the very least this has brought us together…see, always a silver lining… :)) One of my oldest and best friends lives in C’ville and I have always wanted to go to look3. I missed out on meeting you along with the others this year but hope to get there asap.

  • ROSS – thank you. i am sure this was not easy to share. and if all these comments were not going back and forth – you may not have. But THANK YOU. Allard is tough and honest – but take what he said and RUN WITH IT!!!

  • Hey Ross…;-))))

    thank you… this is what i meant..
    in greece they call it ITHACA…

    I call it VENICE…
    let me tell you ONE thing… when you find your VENICE..
    is because you ASKED for it…
    A compromised LIFE cannot PRODUCE …
    you will be the best ( technically photog in the world – like Cathy is better than me… i only use a 35mm open WIDE! thats all…
    that doesnt bring home the money though… but nevermind how
    technically “challenged” i am.. i bleed… passion…
    not like… ahhh lets go watch a movie after the shoot….no, nope…
    we are the movie… go “GONZO”

  • I promised Panos some snapshot postcards from Greece, and so he shall have them :))

    yassus, tom

  • ROSS…

    Thanks a lot. Really!

  • Everyone;

    It was what I was expecting. You’ve got to have a relatively thick hide in this game.

    Actually I’ve been going through a bit of a motivational slump and it pulled me right out of it. I don’t mind sharing the critique as hopefully it will help everyone. I was always going to share it with everyone.

    I can’t get out shooting till tomorrow as I have a writing deadline to meet.

    Like I said; that is exactly the critique I want. It was very similar to David’s in content, albeit different in style… I’m over the moon that he still wants to critique my work. I don’t mind an occasional well aimed boot….

  • ….. love you CATHY ;-)…….

  • sorry ross, didn’t mean to step in the middle there but it’s 2am and I had a goal :))

    Thank you for sharing that critique!


  • PANOS,
    Of course I understand you! You’re probably one of the few rap lovers around here too :)


    YOUNG TOM…..


    I MEAN really there were… oh… this… feta… mythos…
    white… blue…
    yes… really … your photos makes my blood flow a little faster…

    thanks man… i mean… no… really, really thanks…

  • Martin,
    Sho Nuff

  • Ross,

    Most definitely thanks for sharing that…words of advice in there I think that many (at least, I think I can) apply to myself…”well aimed boot” indeed :)

    And, offering the critique and then saying he would continue to look at your work is in itself big “props”…at least, I’d take it that way…

    wow, quite a share with the group – thank you…I hope to meet you at Look3 next year, I emailed Andrew Owen back in june so I could block the date off in my calendar and not forget it…

    I was whining about being disappointed with my own work over the weekend, and now that I’ve gone through it…I still am.. BUT…considering I was in a completely new experience and only shot for about 2 hours each night, it was nothing if not good practice…

    sharing 9 shots our of the 175 or so I took…I think I like one of them (not one of those “YES” pictures…but it did make me stop and go back, and then say “I think I like that” when I was sorting), but that remains to be seen…anyway here they are – comments appreciated.

    good light all,

  • Ross, thanks, and wow, what a vindication from all these one-liners lately, David with Patricia and Cathy, Allard with you, right here on this blog. Finally.

    Panos, send your Venice links to Mr Allard :-))))

    Cathy, IMO, David was honest, not rough. From me to you: take one, any, shot from your “old” style and put next to one “fiesta”, and dare tell me you opened (life, light, timing, momentousness, people magic, ok, like David says: “ah!”) new doors in your photography… It is painful to me, I wouldn’t even dare writing you this if that wasn’t the case.

    PANOS. We all have our Venice. yes. It is forbidden, illegal to envy another photographer! Like (s)he’s got some backstage pass on life that wasn’t given to us….

    yet, I remember telling you at the onset that Venice reminded me of Pattaya in Thailand, not the location, feel or people (a little bit, not so many characters anymore though), but the microcosmos of humanity and the “aleatoriness” of their presence there (if you die in Pattaya, no one cares and people usually chuckles at the way it happened). That’s my Venice! I will see what I can do photography wise. No one ever done anything about the place, not even one guide book. Perfect subject for photography. been thinking about this for years. Maybe i will fail. But yes, we all have our Venice, and fuck mine is 10 000 miles away, some commute! :-)

  • Young Tom…

    now I need to go to Greece even sooner! love some of those…

    any more of the inside of the church, perhaps of the icons?

  • Panos, send your Venice links to Mr Allard :-))))

    but why?
    I love him… i met him in C/Ville…
    we chatted… about… this and that.. and his daughter,
    visiting greece at that time… and this and that…
    but, Herve, ;-)))), why should i bother Mr. Allard ????

    … isnt it enough that i BOTHER mr. HARVEY…
    aint that enough…???????
    ( plus… so to “bite”, your “bait”… i will assume that mr. Allard
    probably WOULDN’T LIKE MY VENICE….. so,.. to speak and make you “happy” Herve… why should i bother him..?
    Herve… ! Honestly… Do you really think that Mr. Allard would
    like my photos ???
    what do you think? Help me here !

  • Pattaya…
    even the name sound so exotic…!

  • GINA

    I never quite understood what was your relation with Natl Geo.Now, I get it, but Please, tell us what it is like to be a stock photographer. how much are you trusted, do they tell you what to shoot? Give us the works, the shape of assigments, and also, tell us more why you’d drop photography. Hope you don’t, but I think eventually, many here that would have it a life/career choice will have to, in 5, 10, 15 years.

  • … but honestly HERVE…
    send VENICE to any other ICONIC PHOTOG…
    ( Allard, Nachtwey… D’Agata )… whatever.. OTHER THAN DAVID ???????????????????????????????
    the only MENTOR, teacher, friend, simple guy,
    complicated guy, genius guy, whatever guy… that really cares
    photographically about me… period…
    Mr. Allard or Mr. “this” or mr “that”…
    never called, never cared, … so why should i bother sending “them” my work???????

  • Panos, you are most welcome! It was fun, sort of a scouting expedition for places to stake out and a “make postcards for Panos” expedition. It’s interesting, this is a real Greek island … commerce, courts, port, etc … so not as welcoming as some other islands, not even close really. I understand, some are likely concerned with effects of tourism here and society is more provincial and private here in some ways. Many, many, many people said no to me today on taking their picture … so very different in that respect from Bangkok or even the states where a smile can get you further it seems. People can be very private here, and I am respecting that.

    Funny, got lost in the back streets two nights ago in the dark … but I did hear parts of an Obama speech more than once echoing from people’s homes down the old winding cobblestone ways.

    Andrew :)) yes, i did take a few pics of the icons but didn’t find them all that interesting in the quick edit tonight. will look again and post a few if you’re interested … tomorrow :))

    ‘night, must sleep,

  • i will assume that mr. Allard
    probably WOULDN’T LIKE MY VENICE….. so,.. to speak and make you “happy”
    Panos, how can you think that?
    yes, it was about the difference of stances between what you attenpt and what he did. And said with a smiley, not daring you.

    I am sure he would not dislike it though. Maybe not relate at first to the diaristic nature of it, but really, I am sure he is totally open-minded, once he’d follow your strides.

    Wow, you photographers are an insecure bunch! It’s contagious too, I am afraid david does not like me anymore because I don’t know who D’ Agata is, and how can I possibly dare shooting without such references. The abyss….. I Feel I am in Pattaya already, aleatory, anonymous just another tourist, another “handsum man!”, no one cares…….

  • herve
    you haven’t fallen yet into the abyss….you still think yourself another
    “handsum man” ;)

  • erica

    delicious waiting is just right.. lots of cuddles.. lots of relaxing with dvds and good food..


    rubbish fishing mate – didn’t make it at all.. this week will be a special effort one day.. the weather was just too sunny and them damn fish have yet to bite on a sunny day..


    thank you.. thank you.. will be posting photos from the other side.. rest assured..
    will be a little bit ‘here’ and yet ‘not here’ probably for a week or two.

    work is going very well.. ‘the edit’ continues.. new idea’s bubbling and shooting every day.. in a couple of weeks i’ll have my exhibition frames and negatives over in norskwayland.. too much to be excited about.

    it’s the same old same old same old groundhog of a beautiful day for me..


  • HERVE – I should NOT speak for DAH – but the guy does not have a “i do not like this guy” bone in his body! trust me….

    as for what i do. I am in sales for the NG Image Collection. we represent roughly 200 photographers (published and stock) and i license their images to International magazine, books and exhibits. The photographers that we represent are Allard, Nick Nichols, Jodi Cobb, Joel Sartore, David Doubilet, etc etc. Of the 200, I am also represented by the Collection. However, I am not an NG photographer. I have not been published in the magazine, but have in some NG textbooks, etc. I submit just simple stock and travel work (none of my mexico project). let me be clear – I am not a professional photographer – I could not live on what I sell each month – but it is enough to support my love of travel. I honestly like it just the way it is. I LOVE MY JOB! I love selling photography – seeing new work, marketing our photographers, etc, etc. As for LOOK3. I am the talent coordinator for the festival. I go out and find all the work for submission to the evening projections. I do not choose who gets shown – i just present the projects to the Board and they decide. I then coordinate all the talent logistics (the workshop instructors, exhibitors, the 3 legacy and those in the projections). i juggle a lot with both jobs – but i do love it!

    does that answer your question??

  • ‘I could not live on what I sell each month’


    sounds about right for an editorial snapper..

    ho.. ho.. ho..

    sounds like you have a good blend going on gina.. i think it’s a shame if you are gong to leave the mexico project.. i still look forward to seeing the chicken shot (did you get it?)..

    if it’s been carried out over so many years, why now? you’ve run the marathon and the finish line must be in sight..

  • “…Wow, you photographers are an insecure bunch! It’s contagious too, I am afraid david does not like me anymore because I don’t know who D’ Agata is,…”

    HERVE… ..;-)… you met DAH,
    you know how cool the guy is….. GINA IS RIGHT…
    and dont worry…
    i dont know who D’Agata is either..
    Do you think that D’Agata himself, knows who is D’Agata…?
    ok, now im kiddin, but y’all know what i mean…
    we love you Herve…
    all WE???? need from you is shut up for a second…
    forget all those exotic places….
    and photograph YOUR REALITY..
    i mean … ok.. until you go to Pattaya…
    please … SHARE SOME WORK… with all of us…
    cmon… go out and SHOOT… MORE…more… more…
    peace & Love Herve

  • ALL….

    i am coming home now and a bit drunk..all the fault of Gilles Peress who has goaded me into taking on more, even more, Magnum responsibility…

    so i arrive here…and this is like stumbling into a crowded bar late….buzzing…all of you are just chatting away and i am OUT OF IT….buzzing…no stools left….everyone laughing..private jokes…girls(my downfall) in the background out of focus…

    but, what the hell..everyone seems happy…and that is good…i will not go into any serious discussion…could not..will not..

    please pass the peanuts…my dinner after all….well, now that i am home and safe i must confess to a truly great afternoon in the best weather that New York has to offer..sidewalk cafe life at its best..where in hell do all these models come from??? and why do they have to walk by here??? and just as i am thinking about THAT, my mind turns to my favorite girl and …well, love , frisbee, golden retrievers etc etc…

    i wish you all a good evening…good night..


  • David……
    now you talking…
    YOU and YOUNG TOM … in greece right now…
    nobody else!

  • David Bowen – we’ll have to go fishing sometime – the salmon are running hard here!!

  • Lassal,
    Martin… thank you…
    rapping skills??? me ???? now , that is a joke…
    but again…” you are “… ” where you reside”…
    at least for a while… “YOU BECOME… YOUR CITY…”

    now go here, Again:

  • Hey ROSS

    That critique is solid gold !
    Panos is onto it i reckon. Hard truthful feedback is the hardest
    and most important thing to find.

    That is one of the many great things about DAH workshops, and something that I was worried about. I didn’t want to waste good money and time having someone blow wind up my arse.
    Of course this did not happen – far from it.

    Re what you mentioned a while back about creative block – I can kind off see your point. I know when I come back from some where exotic I feel like home (Hobart Tasmania) is very quiet.
    I also know that home is exotic and interesting to people else where. I still find it challenging to fine longterm subjects here.
    Gerd Ludwig came to Tasmania for Nat Geo a few years ago and shot an enourmous amount. I have met people in some way out locations that ask me about him and if the work ever published – I’m pretty sure it wasn’t.
    I would really like to see what he made of this place.

  • Matthew;

    “Hey ROSS, That critique is solid gold!”

    Don’t I know it!! Like I said it was exactly what I wanted. I had a few long term projects up and running, they just didn’t seem as “important” that’s all.

    I can imagine that getting a daily critique like that in a workshop would be pure unadulterated gold… That’s why if finances had of allowed I would have applied for the LOOK3 Allard workshop.

    I won’t be able to get out much over the next 2 weeks but after that, look out! Full throttle, engine at full steam ahead!!


    I agree… Hobart, Tasmania IS a very quiet place… in fact, it’s a lot like Bellingham, Washington… even the weather! It’s a nice to place to come home to, though. Except the air fares to anywhere from there must kill you.


  • That’s hysterical, DAH just came in and then went to bed, and the room was too hopping to hear him..well, I heard..night DAH..


    thanks for your words and looking forward to the ride.


    just keep breathing

  • DAVID (TO BED???).. )))

    ok, something from bones (i am almost done, fuckin’ hell)…

    …so you will not mistake the more beautiful of the 2 of us….


  • Bob;
    Great stuff as per usual…..

  • BOB – do you have a link to more of BONES? I would like to look at it again. also where does the title come from?

    what days will you be in NYC? where are you staying? i’ll be there fri-sun – staying in the e. village with a friend.

  • HMMM….

    Looks like us Antipodeans are all in the same time zone… (hehehehe…)


    How cool is that critique? Just makes you want to go out and work harder hey? What a lovely human being is ALLARD to send you the second bit…


    Erm, those pesky moving pictures!!!! ARGH Read on…


    You are always unfailingly elegant and eloquent with both your words and images….


    Even though my head was flattened by all those years of bouncing off the ceiling I have completely forgiven you for selling me to research scientists, afterall many people do view me somewhat as an alien… But the reason I have forgiven you is because of number 4 in your edit!!!! It is pure gold and I am sure that being the father of a baby alien you can understand exactly why I LOVE it!!!!


    I love the Greek stuff, beautiful lyrical can see why PANOS loves it too…


    One day we will hang out…I am scheming all the time to come and see FAMILY BLACK and MISS ERICA!!!!


    Is all well? I worry you know…But if this helps…GO FOR IT PANOS, GO!!!!


    Apologies for the one line greetings to other members of the forum its just my way of staying in touch


    Now I am having a dilemma…

    I have all these new images from the ‘Beautiful Music’ series BUT and its a big BUT (only one T though, hehehehe…), I don’t think that they even look like fitting with the original essay and I am just going- hell how am I going to make a stand alone story of these?

    I think I was so involved with making a multi-media piece that I concentrated on something different entirely… You made a comment earlier that you think people have been getting away with lots of sloppy work in multi-media (just a guess but I suspect that one of the ‘greats’ has been working away at this in the background and we are going to get a treat and a lesson into exactly how it should be done fairly soon) but just for us mere mortals, do you think that the whole multi-media thing requires a different brain space? (I did have trouble going from video to stills and back again) Or do you think it should just be like a different sort of edit (like for a book, exhibition, magazine article) Its got me quite perplexed about how to handle this.

    When I was shooting it seemed like I was only thinking of the whole thing fitting together and trying to shoot stills to fit the video rather than the other way around and now I have 62 stills I think are all OK but the choices are not that easy because I am thinking they will work with video and sound but how am I going to make them work without it?

    Is that what you meant by sloppy? That people aren’t putting in the effort to do stand alone images that really kick arse because they know they can fudge it?

    Shit I am really confused, ‘cos well I’d like to do a couple of edits of the stills separately to the multi-media ‘cos I guess it would be nice to have the ability to present things in a lot of different ways.

    I am just having a really hard time with this whole concept but I know that this is where a lot of us are heading and that multi media is an absolute perfect medium for the internet, which after all is replacing magazines, but NOT books and exhibitions.

    Is it taking on too much trying to do it all, stills for exhibitions, books and mags and also video and sound for multi media on the internet, cinema and TV?

    Do you have any advice as to how to think on this? Help, I love my stills but there is this whole new world, is it just a matter of getting the balance right?

    Any advice or thoughts on the edit would be enormously gratefully recieved…


    fuck the discussion of edits/photography/critiques:

    I WANT TO GO WHERE YOUNG TOM WAS! :)))))…GOD DAMN THOSE GREECE SHOTS ARE GORGEOUS…I WANT THAT THAT THAT…screw toronto and blogs ;)))…i want to be where that light and color is :))))) (

    Young Tom, Can Marina and Dima and I join you and Panos on your next excursion :))))))) (please, pretty please!!!)…


    I have to tell u straight up, a simple story. Once, i took a portfolio of my pics and the gallery dude said: “good god, do you really thing these are photographs…”…and Marina has had her ass kicked like 1,000,000 times…and all i can say is that it’s tough to get a critique in public (i’ve gone through the mill (private and public) many times and just dont give up…that’s tough but honest shit from David, and it should only make you more determined to make work that isn’t for anything but to marry your soul with your vision…and cause you braved that, i’m willing to put my ass and pics on the line too…..ya’ll will have a shot


    wow, some ride….


    thanks for that, but more importantly, thanks for you openness and generosity with the critique from Allard….as i wrote Cathy, it’s balls brave to share in public what other’s think of us…and im gonna do my duty to do the same…when i finish this stuff for DAH wednesday, i’ll write a story of when i got shallacked for my work…and it hurt too, but made me more determined to figure out what it was that i wanted to do with pics…i will also tell David that he can use my work too after wednesday, for criticism, or examples of wrong-approach…since im not sure my editing is anything to write home about…

    pooped…y’all dont hurt one another…


  • GINA: :)))

    I will be sending the set of Bones to David on Wednesday via http://FTP…im still (yes, it’s now fricking 5 weeks) of editing…im contstantly playing with pics to keep in (and there are alot, and it’s total bullshit vanity, im lost)…but David will kill me when he sees how many…’cause the story moved from “Essay/Assignment” to something bigger about, well…whatever ;))

    the title: from the essay that I am writing to accompany the photographs…begun as a story about my son and dinosaur bones, but then it changed, my dad who i hadn’t seen in 4 years, time, my family, death of someone i knew, memories…childhood…sounds totally pompous i know, but i guess, that’s what it turned into…grew as i shot over the 4 weeks and then started to edit…anyway, it’s been longer than 4 weeks of shooting, cause some of the images are from april and some from last october (after the chaose of my wife and son being away for 4 months in russia): all this came out when i was shooting with dima and then 2 weeks alone…anyway…

    we will arrive on friday 3rd (morning) and leave sometime on sunday….we’re staying with a friend who has so kindly offered to put us up (we’re on the no-budget trip, meaning all $$ will go for gifts to david, michael c and our friend, the rest: hot dogs on the street)…but we will be there…maybe we can sort of a plan a dinner with folks on saturday, if david is not hung over ;))…

    more after wednesday…



    p. s. LISA, PLEASE COME!!!

  • Lisa;

    I hope all is going well in your neck of the woods…

    I had a similar problem to you on my last trip to Vanuatu. I was concentrating so hard on getting interviews, notes etc for my articles that I let the photography side slip. I ended up with a few ok images and that’s about it.

    Re; the Allard critique. I think he was gracious enough to send the second email just in case he thought I may have been dealt to harshly, but it was quite opposite. The last thing I wanted was for someone to be blowing smoke up my rear….. I appreciate every sentence in the critique…..

  • Bob;

    Thanks for the kind comments, to be able to get a critique from David and Mr Allard is something that many would dream of.

    Nothing like getting a decent “shellacking” every now and then, you’ve got to take one for the team occasionally!!!


    about editing…i’ve been wrestling for 5 weeks with editing Bones…i just wanted to say only this…the more time you spend with your work, the hard and clearer it becomes…i thought i was finished at the end of August, and then i decided to not look at the pics at all for 1 week…Marina, Dima and I went on a camping trip for 4 days (1st family vacation in 1 1/2 years) and when i returned the first thing i see on the computer was the suicide of David Foster Wallace…this changed everything about the edit…

    i dont know about any of y’all, but as a photographer, every part of my life goes into my work: my wife and son, my memories, my ideas, my aesthetic, the people who i meet, the people i admire, the people who came before me, the people i am photographing, the thoughts, mediation, philosophy, drunkeness, strangers…all bloody part of it…

    Wallace’s suicide jolted me, almost as much as the woman who left from the top of our building 2 years ago…the same week, i’d just finished reading Jean Amery’s 1st book…

    i’m still fucked up with the editing….because, i want this story to speak about things that maybe it would be easier for me to write about (contrary to most of my stupid, sloppy posts here, i actually do write too), but i want the picture to be the carriage…

    to understand, if you want, what Wallace’s death meant, take a look here…


  • BOB –

    i will read the article tomorrow – and get back with you. are you flying to ny? where do you live?

  • WOW….This place has been on fire today!!!!!


    Hang in there…. I have no doubt that, as you keep working and pushing yourself, you will get this “declic” and get where you want to go…. Some months ago, I did share this story of this lady who attended the same workshop I did with David in Rome….David was pretty hard on her (somewhat of an understatement) and he kept pushing and pushing… Eventually, in complete despair, unable to capture the “Street life of Rome”, David has asked her on her very last day to do a self-portrait and share with us all how she felt inside….she produced probably in one day the very best essay….I certainly do not want to repeat what others have already said but I can only also encorage you to get close to your subject, open up… In a way, I was much more able to see your “soul” when looking at you early pictures from India… These pictures made me want to know you and showed more of a certain sensibility than the ones you shared today….Bottom line, pick up something that you REALLY care about…whatever it is and show it to us….you can do it Cathy….you are on top a brave person, taking “risks” to expose yourself to be criticized… we have many lurkers I am sure who may wonder whether to share their work and expose themselves but PANOS is right, the only way to progress is to shoot, shoot and then show and get the tough love to take it to the next level….many of your friends here on the blog have faith in you :):)…


    You can be tough man but boy do I like reading your passionate request for all of us to go out there and shoot!!!! As a matter of fact, I came back this evening from 2 hours of shooting into different gym for my boxing essay….I thought I had run out of steam but it is always when you think you are done that something happens…got some nice shots I hope and I will be back there tomorrow….


    Just wanted to say that I was touched by your very kind personal letter to Cathy. Thanks for sharing this with us all…It is the sort of perspective that helps us all… I do want to see this Mexico story that I have been hearing about for quite a while now….I would somehow trust David’s judgement here rather than this editor who should remain nameless…


    No rush really but I think you wanted to say something about my proposed titles and you did not share eventually. In case you get a chance, let me know….in the mean time more to shoot and show….



  • GINA: :))

    no, too poor for that…we’re taking an overnight bus….we live (for now) in toronto…

    though im from the states and marina is from Moscow…we’ve lived around the world…modern 21st century, displayed happy family

    off to bed..


  • BOB,

    Just wanted to let you know that initially, I had some trouble with your photographic style (last year EPF) but I tell you, I like many of the pictures you have been sharing with us for teasing us about Bones…. Initially I thought that you clearly had a different vision and very personal style but I was not getting it fully, wasn’t touching me personally …first time I did really adhere is when I attended the Look3 show with the music, the big screen… then I started thinking that clearly there was something there…and the more time passes and the more I am growing into really liking what you are doing… The Bones pictures are also more “readable” for me and I quite like that… So anyway, I am slowly becoming a fan :):):). Can’t wait to see the full essay!





    The other night… damn , the other night i had a nightmare… A real nightmare..

    I was an inflated BALOON flying upon Venice… i took a ride with the ballon-self… and i ended up once more at the same place.. same people.. same greed, same thirst, same pains, same bullshit………_YOU_ARE_IMPOSSIBLE.html

    click above, please

    ps: ERIC… EXACTLY.. 100%, i agree with YOU!!!!!

  • VENICE update 46…
    VENICE update 46…
    VENICE update 46…
    venice UPDATE 46..
    venice UPDATE 46..

    high rez.
    high rez
    high rez

    “high”… anyways

    enjoy ……


    Thankd for the ‘Panos-cards’ and sharing your trip to Greece with all of us. I lke them all, but I think 3 of them are starting to push beyond the designation of simply ‘postcards’: Piraeus, Rain on Syros, and Skateboarder #2.

    Enjoy your trip, the only thing you’re missing in Washington State is a very early beginning of fall greyness and rain.

  • Sidney,
    im totally with you…
    im so mesmerized with YOUNG TOM’S “greek” photos…

  • ALL

    As you might imagine, I feel like I was riding a roller coaster the past 24 hours. Low, lower, high, higher and now on the straight away. Critiques are interesting things. Yes, I take my photos for myself. Yes, I edit those 100s and 100s of photos for myself. But there comes a time when the work needs/deserves to be seen by experienced eyes, eyes you trust, eyes that look not just at the surface but at the soul of your work.

    It’s kind of like looking a tiger in the eyes to invite a critique, or edit as we call it here. You must be ready for whatever comes, and there’s no way to know ahead of time what that might be. I can certainly understand why some folks are reluctant to lay themselves open like this. But if you want to grow, you’ve got to let your work be seen and reviewed by folks whose opinion you trust. And who say it like they see it.

    In the end, though, it’s your work, no one else’s. You decide if a critique or edit fits what you’re trying to say. You are the author of this work and it is yours to show as you see fit. But if you’ve chosen well in who you’ve asked to critique your work, their opinion deserves respectful consideration. And sometimes that takes time.

    Regarding finding a subject for an photographic essay, there are subjects everywhere you look. It doesn’t need to be exotic or dangerous or difficult or far away. Often the simplest, most ordinary subject is a good place to start.

    And don’t expect to fall in love with your subject BEFORE you start shooting. You’ve got to get acquainted first, spend some time hanging out together, discover one another’s quirks and idiosyncrasies. Like any love affair there will be times when you get bored, frustrated and angry. That’s when you’ve got to stick with it, because that means you’re moving to a new level in your relationship. No subject is perfect, just as no lover is perfect. But patient determination can ease you over the rough patches.

    As with a lover with whom you must keep talking things over, with a photographic essay you must just keep shooting. Shoot every day, even if its not pics of your subject. Just shoot. Like any muscle, the more you exercise your artist’s eye and shutter finger, the stronger they will become. The more natural the process will be, like breathing in and breathing out.

    We’ve had really important discussions in the past few days, not easy but good. Truthful, and that counts for a lot. Let’s keep those doors open, always treating one another with respect, but saying it like we see it. And shooting…ALWAYS shooting!



    The everyday people of Venice Beach. That’s what I see in this work. Not a nightmare, more of a daydream. Really wonderfully spontaneous shots that give me the feel of being there, of seeing things out of the corner of my eye. Hints and inklings of people’s lives. Another excellent chapter to your book!!!



    ha ha ha

    You should write a whole post when you are a little drunk! It will be most positive full of bbeautiful models and plenty of love post!!!


    One night and more than 100 comments. I am not able to go through. ehhhh….

    peace love and models for all

  • ERIC

    a friend of mine accidentally ripped out some pages in my little notebook.. he said OOPS and i looked down and saw: PAIN SWEAT FIST WORK FIST PAIN SWEAT ‘BRING THE PAIN’.. our notes from Perpignan.. serendipitous i suppose.. ‘get a great title and work the title’… certainly one approach. :)

    BOB, ALL

    Mario Giacomelli takes TIME… you have to spend TIME with this book, oh my.. I want to rip the pages out and hang them all around me.. perhaps i will..


    MARCIN and i traded beautiful prints.. whose next? i’d love to trade prints.. nice ones.. just letter size or whatever you want.. but something made with care.. who is up? have a look at my site and let me know.. the offer is out there.. (a community print exchange.. something meaningful here me thinks.. )

  • ALL… and I mean ALL…

    I couldn’t resist taking a peek before bed and I’ve got to say…forgive me for sounding a bit gooey…it’s looking like a huge love-fest here.

    The sharing, the heart opening…has someone spiked my Izzy soda with extacy? :))

    Am I imagining things or have we all gotten closer than ever today? As each person revealed their story…or made their comment…Gina, Ross, Bob, Patricia, Eric, Anton, Herve, Panos, Erica…I hate to name names because this is really for EVERYONE…even lurkers…the distance between us grew smaller.

    Right BOB? :))

    What a great group. David you should be very proud of what you’ve created here. Goodnight all.

  • Panos,

    screw technical “perfection”. On my lists of prioritis, technical perfection is right at the bottom. I think you are right and in the process you cpoined a new term “Find your Venice”….simple, poignant, spot on. I do think all of us need to shoot shoot shoot, every day, as much as possible. Its not really for practice, its to heighten our senses and sensibilities, how we see….it takes time to get in the zone, to find your own venice, and only by shooting, eliminating, shooting, thinking, refining..dithcing what doesnt work, starting something new, shooting…etc etc etc can we find our own Venice.

    Cathy, it really is all about that. All the other stuff comes from finding a subject you have a passion for. And it is about access, both physical and emotional (you need to shoot something you know to be a real insider). Panos found his Venice, patricia, too. Bob for sure. Venice though isnt only a place or subject, its also a style, an aesthetic that is clearly yours. D’Agata, DAH, Sobol…they have it…but so does Bob, so does Panos, so does Patricia, Marcin, etc etc. All of it comes from constant, never ending shooting and thinking about your own shooting.

  • LISA

    Boy it sounds like you did have a nightmare.

    Welcome to the world of film !

    “Is it taking on too much trying to do it all, stills for exhibitions, books and mags and also video and sound for multi media on the internet, cinema and TV?”

    I would say YES to your question. I should say you can do it all but there is little chance you could do it all as well as you would want.

    These are all very different ways of telling stories. I think you should choose the ones that you are best at and have a passion for and do them to the best of you ability.

    I shoot video for television and multimedia documentraies as you know and I have a shot a feature length doco being reliced in cinemas nationally next week BUT I don’t edit them, and with feature length there is also the director, who you can be sure has been living, dreaming and nurturing every aspect of the story for many years.

    In my perfect world I would just be shooting stills.

    Below is a link to a podcast with Bob Sacha re multimedia that is worth a listen


    Yep, I reckon Bellingham is a lot like here.
    Why is it that the small place where you don’t live always seems more interesting that the small place you do live ?

    Hey, maybe we should all go to a small Greek island with Tom !


    Sure Panos. Just a couple hours ago, we celebrated my very old friend’s 84th birthday. He lives upstairs of me, he has Alzheimer, as much a hero as fucking Mc Cain, and better.

    I am the closest person TOMMY knows now. We had a few guests, here our good neighbour Sam, half-black, half-cherokee, he brought his chief coiffe and Tommy started dancing a pow-wow. Only in San Francisco….

    the lady is his care giver, she does not get how we americans can be so silly, past middle age. Her problem, not mine. It’s all in the picture, really…

    As you can see, i don’t give a fuck about technique as well:

  • MATTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!


    No I am not thinking of cutting the video myself, I need an expert for that but I think I definitely have enough concept of this to direct a multi-media edit. My difficulty is that in shooting the video as you said its such a different story telling medium, that I didn’t go after the essence of my stills, which is just so much more creative…


    But see, I love this new hybrid multi-media and I do think with the stuff I was shooting in both stills and moving that it was an advantage to do both for the proximity and intimacy of the story. Its just I am not sure whether I can now look at my stills objectively and put them as a separate indivdual story and edit without the multi media in mind…

    I am just used to working with the idea of twelve stills being a lot to tell a story with and now I have 62 that could work with a muli-media set up!

    See why I am confused?

    I will get them up on the website (the stills) and everyone can have a look without the accompanying video and see what they think. Its definitely a new way of working, hey but I do love a challenge…. (hehehehe…think kidney stones!)

  • All,
    Me here is of return to me!! I am right now going to catch up all your comments…

    I saw in Paris 3 magnificent exhibitions: the retrospective of Richard Avedon of whom quarantine printing big format of series In the American West, the exhibition” Henri Cartier-Bresson and Walker Evans, photographing America of 1929-1947, I bought the catalog of the exhibition, Saul Leiter in the gallery Camera Obscura, I also bought its book, I like hiswork on the color, And I went to visit the gallery Polka, with some David’s images (David you have hello of all the team of Polka!) Polka is a new concept , a web site, a magazine and a gallery, they expose(explain) and sell photos published in the magazine…

    I also went to the festival Photsoc (I made party of the finalists of the competition Photsoc, the work on my grandfather was thrown, thank you Lassal and Jean for your encouragements, and no, I earned nothing) I discovered the Parisian suburb, Sarcelles, I understand now the riots which there was, it is a city COUNCIL HOUSE (ville HLM), there are no houses, neither no small buildings, only nor COUNCIL HOUSES (at least what I went through), It is immense, it is really particular…

    Best regards, audrey

  • AKAKY…

    this is the best work i have seen from you…many near “misses” but i like very much #1255 and #2523…you seem to be “getting in there” in a way i have not seen prior…go further young man, go further…


    you have about 10 really fine photographs in this series and in all of them i can tell you are “pushing the envelope”…i wish we had some way to edit…and yes, i guess we will this week or depends on how much time Mike will have this week to set up Digital Railroad… you continue to grow grow grow…good on you…

    cheers, david

  • audrey

    hello.. welcome back.. thanks for the links..


    you’re spot on.. eyes.. muscle.. practice.. shoot for ones-self.. all too much to say.
    there are a million reasons to not do.. excuses to comfort.. and one reason to do.. ourselves.

    david mc

    that would be ace mate – sea salmon here are a tricky catch and it’s sea fishing i’ve got into.. mackerel, grey fish .. that kind of thing..
    if there’s one thing this blog lacks it is fishing talk.


    intrigued.. it’s irrelevant, i know.. but why leave greece for california? when did you do so? i’m finding it interesting looking at your work in the context of a greek ex-patriot..
    greece is fantastic…
    i think in the spring once boy has joined us we’ll maybe take a car and drive around old haunts of europe.. just the little family of three.. greek islands will be up there along with southern france and spain / portugal..

  • ERIC :)))

    thanks so much for the kind words. well, most people have that reaction to my work, i mean the part about not getting it and all and that’s cool with me. the pics from EPF were only 8 from an essay about some immigrants students and leaving. the other essay (15 pics) i first showed david was published by ball-saal and included 15 pics about the nature of faces (i think this was the first work David saw of mine other than the stuff (a mix bag of images) i put at LS), part of a long long body of worked i’ve been at for 4 years. Marina and i have worked (generally) in isolation, but worked very hard. my work isn’t about “photojournalism” and so is often poo-poo’d by photographers/fans who generally are used to straightforward documentary stuff. moreover, in an age of digital cameras and hyper-clarity/realism/perfection/precision, where is someone like me going to be “read”…since my pics are dark and drenched with grain and often nearly “unreadable” …and with bones i even use a pin-hole camera too (the first image that opens the story). in the end, my work is always accompanyied with words too, essays or poems i write with them, for them, from them, before them…not as explanation but as accompanyiment (like the music i choose at Look3)…i do not know when i’ll get to show the whole Bones…david will have the whole thing (except the written essay part) on wednesday night…it’s long and i dont know if anyone is going to like it or get it or what…yes, there are lots of “clear/readable” images there (Marina said, “your pics are getting clearable”, which i guess is partly the influence of my friendship/discussion with David and all of you) but some of the images are even more abstract, broken….i just hope that the images speak to someone, cause they are such a part of my life now, that it’s all ok…i am just humbled that you stuck with me long enough for it to make sense…what is a photograph?…seems to me that most of the photographic world is still stuck on the answer “a picture”…what is a scent? a smell or the entirety of the memory, taste, sound, feeling, sensation, life associated with it? ;))) merci ami

    LANCE :))))…

    so so happy amigo…i told u :)))))))…so so happy….im still wrestling with the book, 6 years later…

    RAFAL :)))…thanks rafal…i gotta second what david has said…your work continues to grow, depend, challenge….just as i’ve told you before, work when given over to it, means all in the end…you must be proud and excited by the journey…

    AKAKY :))))

    told you Dad :)))…like, these may be the 1st pics i’ve ever seen you take of someone where you are close enough for the flash to be seen on skin…or tha you’re dancing in their step…we break who we are, we will find out who we are….but you know that already, or is that the other Akaky (note above: dialogue with 2 Akaky via Beckett) who understands…i’ve lost track…


  • Dear All,

    Something I’d like to share with the family…..I got a call yesterday from The Guardian newspaper in the UK asking me if I could do a quick shoot for them. I have never worked for them but they are one of my favourite papers, so I of course said ‘yes’. This was 3pm. By 3.30pm I was in a cab on the way to a hospital in Beijing with the aim of somehow getting pictures of children affected by the recent Milk scandal here in China where children’s milk powder has been laced with the industrial chemical melamine causing kidney stones.

    We arrived at the hospital at 4pm, I was told to wait in the lobby as to not raise attention to us whilst the Chinese correspondent went into the hospital to find people. 45 minutes later she came back saying that she had found someone willing to be photographed however she was worried she would have changed her mind by the time we got back. Anyway, we headed in, avoiding eye contact with any security guards, nurses and doctors. We got into the room where all the babies who were affected were being kept. As soon as the nurses saw me, they headed in and, whilst looking very worried, told us to wait whilst they got their supervisor. TROUBLE. As the nurses headed out the room I new I had no time at all. Wipped out the camera, adjusted the settings and fired off 20 seconds worth of pictures of a grandmother and her child before I was stopped by a burly looking supervisor who was none to happy about of presence. We promptly got kicked out and told to come back with permission. As we were being asked, I managed to squeeze a few frames off whilst not looking with my camera at my side, worrying they would hear my shutter. They didn’t.

    So, at 5pm we were walking out already! I checked my pictures. Only 17 frames shot! Now, I was seriously worried. Had I just blown the job?

    Well, the paper ran one of the pictures today. I’m very happy indeed. Anyone who knows the Guardian knows this is one of the UK’s best broadsheets. The picture isn’t going to win any Pulitzers or World Press Photo, but I thought it may be interesting to share the story of the shot with you.

    You can see it on the front page of my archive at…

    The things we do to get a picture! It got my heart racing for a little while though!

    Dave…ever had a strange story behind getting a picture?



    well, yes, this new picture is posed, but what is wrong with posed??…Avedon? Penn? Erica??

    this is a nice picture…and the background totally “makes it” with those two women on the sofa…

    when i thought more about your fiesta, i could have imagined even more “posed” pictures…i think this actually might really work for you overall..think about it..and please please look at the work of Ashe in the student slide is up…did you look at it???

    i understand how you might think that Patricia and Panos have subject matter right in front of them…

    you think that because THAT IS WHAT THEY HAVE TOLD YOU in photographs…

    they could have told you just the opposite…Panos could have said “man, i need to get to Greece , otherwise i cannot shoot” and Patricia could have said “how can i be a photographer at all, i am confined to my scooter?” Sally Mann could have said (and did say at one point) “i am a housewife with three kids, living in a small Virginia town, what can i do??” i could have said the same before i did Tell It Like It Is, “i live in an even smaller town in Virginia than Sally Mann and there is nothing here to photograph..i want to photograph culture..what can i possibly do?”

    what about Rafal? wife and kid and not much time to would be wise to go study his work very carefully….when i met Rafal in Seoul he had almost nothing in his portfolio…we talked…we shot together…now, the boy is rockin way beyond what even i would ever have expected…he studied every book he could get his hands on …he experimented…he shoots everyday…

    point is Cathy, the world is in front of you everyday..your world…i know where you live and i know all of the totally fascinating stories around you…you are in a very photographically rich town….so you have good “external” subject matter and you can always go “internal” as Patricia or Sally…

    i think you need to think long and hard about why you are a photographer…what exactly is it that you want to do?? i am sure you do not see yourself as a traveling magazine photographer, nor as a newspaper photog either..what do you see yourself as??? more importantly WHAT ARE YOU INTERESTED IN…i have never heard you say….not that you should be a “pro”..that is not important or the point…but, you do have to have SOMETHING IN MIND….i do not know what you THINK ABOUT…

    your best essay will be something so obvious that you cannot see it..right in front of you, like Panos or Patricia…so many photograhers get caught in the trap of think that “when this happens, then that will happen”..”when i go to India, then i will take pictures”..when, when , when, if , if , if….

    when , and IF, you become a committed photographer, and i know you do not have much experience, you will find pictures anywhere and everywhere all the time…you will be on fire…if you are not “on fire” i doubt you can be the kind of photographer you are trying to be…

    i do not know one single great photographer who is not “ON FIRE”..and i know many…

    however, maybe that is just not you..that is ok too…

    i love tennis , but i am not “on fire” about tennis…i just like to go out and hit a few balls..i like to watch the arc of the ball…laugh with friends and get some exercise…same with surfing and kite boarding…i am at the lowest level of these three sports, but i really really enjoy all three …however, if i tried to get into the upper echelons of these sports, i am sure i would find my tennis coach telling me to give up the game!!!!

    so, it is all about perspective..what you want to do and where you want to go..surely, if you do really really want to do fine work , you can do it right in your own backyard…and if you do “catch on fire” then i will be very happy to mentor you towards a book or show as i have done for so many others…

    i was actually quite shocked when i read from you and some others that my critique of your 3 hour shoot was “tough/hard”…hmmmm, i was just simply choosing pictures..what did i say that was “hard”??? i was so so baffled by this reaction that i doubt i will ever do an online critique/edit again…time is all we have and i must spend my time wisely…

    from a photo world standpoint, i will just produce my books, shows, etc and will continue to put everything i have into my face to face students and their work and continue to stimulate conversations on this critique only seems to “backfire” and with no tangible result at the end….

    trust me, i am much much tougher critic on my workshop students and much much much harder on my colleagues and on myself..i have THROWN OUT MONTHS of my own work much faster than i threw out 15 pictures of yours from a 3 hour shoot…i sometimes shoot for three or four hours BEFORE BREAKFAST and think nothing of it…then go on for 16 hours after…day after day for weeks…so please get some perspective on where i come from…

    i will certainly end up in Santa Fe sometime soon….so, we can do a one on one edit in person…and maybe we can go shoot something together..that will be time well spent i am sure….

    cheers, hugs, peace, david

  • sean..

    i’m not the right dave, i’m certain, but yes – shoots are always a mine-field of access and getting the snaps to the client for me.
    it’s suprizing how a decent photo editor soaks up and understands the difficulty – expressed by them in the gratitude they show for work delivered on time and to brief.. thats all the want.

    the guardian are great.. the links to the observer is a good one.

    many congratulations mate.. you’ll be on the list of freelancers for china and no doubt you’ll hear from them again, as a photographer who is able to deliver..

    thanks for sharing.

  • SEAN…

    nice shot…and great initiative…you are moving my man, you are moving…good…

    yes, i ALWAYS have “strange stories” behind my pictures…really …pick any one..i will tell the story….

    cheers, david

  • and sean.. what a great photo you caught..
    well framed.. the reference of the mother directed towards the childs mouth.. ties in nicely..

    you’re doing the business.. no question.

  • David;

    I’m not sure whether you’ve caught up with everything today, it’s been pretty busy. But I posted a critique Mr Allard did of the Timor images. I wasn’t going to post them until you had given your ok, but there were quite a few requests. Hopefully that was ok?


  • okay – did not notice the ‘echo’ i was causing..

    big ups sean..

  • DAVID, I’ve downloaded the Loft’s slideshow and cannot run it, Quicktime says that it doesn’t understand the format… Anyone could open it ?

  • ROSS…

    of course, that was ok!! that was a good letter from Bill to you…now, take that and compare it with what i wrote to you way back about the Timor shoot…Bill certainly went into more specific detail, but do not the two critiques match in substance???

    you have something really great going for you….you handle criticism well…you listen, you learn, you move forward….you do not take critique as an affront to you personally, but as something “helpful” and constructive…

    Bill and i will both look forward to your next essay…

    cheers, david

  • YAN

    i could not get it to play either…as soon as Mike gets up this morning, i will have him fix it…

    cheers, david

  • BOB…

    have i missed a link where all of “Bones” is in one place??? or are you saving the whole body of work for later??? the last portrait was vintage Bob Black…when we meet soonest, let’s talk about the book you must must do…do you know Trolley books??

    cheers, david

  • David B…Thanks! I’m just glad I got a few usable shots!

    DAH…Thanks also. I don’t do too much of this kind of shooting but it is fun to do things at the very last minute and have to ‘produce’ very quickly. Well, it’s fun as long as you pull it off that is.

    Okay, so choose a photo with a story….how about the new photo of the asian girl bathed in blue light on your homepage?!


  • David;

    I actually mentioned in a post today that both your critiques were very similar, just different in style. Anyway I remember you saying Mr Allard doesn’t like computers but he graciously sent a long critique. So maybe he saw a glimmer of hope!!

    My emotions went from “Oh shit”, to “Right, I’ll do better and work even harder” to “Glimmers of self doubt” and then back to “Right, I’ll do better and work even harder”!! All in the space of 15 minutes!!

    Your and Mr Allard’s opinions are the two I seek because I know I’ll hear the truth. The way I look at it is you need good opinions from those you respect. If you ask for a critique then it doesn’t pay to get snotty if it isn’t what you want to hear.

    I only posted the critique because I thought others might benefit from the well aimed boot I received….

    You probably remember that I once said I would love to do a workshop with Mr Allard, because I know it can only be beneficial to my work.

    “Feel free to send some work along now and then. I can’t always get to it right away but I’ll try. What I say isn’t gospel, of course, but I’m doing you no favours by being less than candid. I didn’t say your pictures are bad and that’s a good start. The world is full of bad pictures and you’re not adding to them. I wish you the best in growing and adding to work of excellence”

    That last email from Mr Allard made me smile; I think he might have been feeling a bit sorry for me after all!!!


  • David, Bob….

    Bob to tell you Im very excited. I find myself now in a strange situation, copared to before when I had a lot of time but was unfocused, there was very little for me to really get excited about. These days though with limited time due to work, family…I find myself more energized than ever, and infact what I thought was going to be a challenge to do, shoot one project, has turned into shooting 2 projects simultaneously: Marooned (Riverside+Park Life) and Personal Stills (Home Sweet Home + Family Ties). I think Im feeding off the momentum and the more I go the more energized and excited I am about both, and determined to really turn something good out. I do try and shoot every day, when at home Im always ready to shoot for HSH, when Im at the park with my family I switch to Park Life, when I have some time I get to any random spot along the river here in Seoul and shoot then. Usually if its not HSH I have a 1 hour window of shooting (Get to the river about 5:30 and at 6:30 its almost totally dark) a couple times a week. But I dont think its about how much time you have.

    Today I was able to get an hour shooting for Riverside, and just edited 3 photos. My wife is studying and her aunt is taking care of our son so I was able to get some computer time.


    Im glad you like it. I am not thinking of a final edit yet, my intention is to shoot both Riverside and Park Life through the winter and see what I have. But its great to get some encouragement along the way! I would love to get some edit time with you, but no worries now, Ill keep updating you about new work and let you look at the project as it grows. I think it will be best that way and then maybe soon we could edit together. Would LOVE to see your ideas on the project.

    Home Sweet Home as you know is intended to be a long term diary, a long running project. Im happy that next week Im going to have a chance to work on Family Ties since Ill be going down to visit my wife’s family.

    Other than that its pretty quiet here.


    Hey, friend. I just want to weigh in on the value to ALL of us of the online critique/edit you did of Cathy’s fiesta photos. I, for one, learned so much by seeing your step-by-step process, thinking about the questions you asked about specific images and the work as a whole, reading your technical/compositional assessments and suggestions about where she should go from here. Sure hope you will reconsider your decision not to do such an online critique/edit again. For those of us who have never been in one of your workshops, this was as close as we might ever get to seeing what it would be like. Priceless stuff!

    Anyway, since when do you get your knickers in a twist over how folks react online to your posts??? You, of all people, know that each of us sees/hears things through the filter of our own, often screwed up, past experiences with teachers/bosses/parents. Your caring, incredible expertise and deep commitment to mentoring emerging photogs is legendary. I hope you know how much we appreciate you, even when we’re fussing…


  • P.S. David,

    whenever you want we can edit. I was just thinking aloud about the sort of ultimate deadline Ive given myself to be totally finished the Marooned project. But ofcourse if theres a need Im ready to edit ASAP. Let’s do it when you want.

  • SEAN

    Excellent work!!! Love the photo and very much appreciate your gumption in getting it! It looks GREAT on that page from The Guardian. By the way, I SO admire that paper. It has always been a real truth-teller, especially in times of war. I’m sure you’ll be hearing from them again!


  • bob

    mentioned pinhole..
    just posted this in another thread and thought i’d stick it here too..

    pinhole rocks..
    this is camera obscura though.. magnifying glass lens and a coke can aperture.. made from a ‘doritos’ box which crisps came in.. curved ‘film plan’ of two 10 by 8 sheets printing paper..
    the intention was to go for sharpness & quality.
    f162 with focus from 2 inch to infinity..
    5 min exposure..

    check out the ‘ghost’ bus.. there are people as well although with such a small reproduction online it’s difficult to see.. the burn’t out sky above the buildings left and righ get me moist also..

    it’s something everyone can learn from playing with.. i’ll set up an obscura room on my site once my negatives emigrate to be with me..

    i think anton is right.. baby and junk from england are at least going to arrive in the same week..

  • the DAH crit of cathy..

    loved it.. patricia says it right.

    a week or two ago, in order to encourage my stoodents, i showed some of my work – intentionally putting in ‘red herring’ rubbish photos and getting the class vocal about what they liked and didn’t..
    worked a treat – inspired them and helped them see what a thick skin and ears can do for your eyes..
    getting them to set the bar with my work.. helps now when i must set the bar with their work.

    looking forward to some tough editing ahead.. looking forward to cutting the red herring shots out of the book..

    BTW – i’m going to ask my students if it would be cool to show you all some of their narrative work.. a couple of them ‘get it’.. in any case they have all produced something.. i’ll probably make a little blog with some of the best snaps.. if they’re cool with that.

  • DAIVD (AH)


    good note. As for the “tough critique” part about Cathy’s photos, I didn’t think the critique was tough (in the sense of hurtful), i thought it was tough for Cathy to receive this kind of straight-talk honesty in front of lots and lots of eyes. I wrote Cathy yesterday on the blog that i thought that you had given her a “no-holds-balls-up” critique: meaning, no bullshit, honesty and thoroughly thoughtful. I told her that at least this time, she had the courage to show the pictures and take your analysis. I didn’t see your critique as any different than what Marina and I have been through from time to time. I also shared with the group one moment when a gallery dude once asked me if he thought my work “was real photography?” Marina too has had to endure this too (first with her paintings) with people looking at her work. Both of us, actually, are probably tougher on ourselves than anyone else could be, though we still fail often, particularly with the idea of putting images together.

    I also love and respected that Ross had the courage to put Allard’s critique up as well. Thus, after Cathy and Ross, i’ve volunteered to put my butt on the line too. After you get Bones you can critique it too, cause i know the sequencing is a total mess :))).

    I think lots of people might have felt in light of everything that happened on Sunday and Monday, that it was “harsh.” I do not. I think there are alot alot of photographers here (writers and lurkers) who spend long time working on projects that consume them for weeks, months, years and never ask for your critique. Rafal, for example, as been ablaze now for lik 9 months (longer?) on this family suite (not to mention the other work with Han River, parkside, etc), and of course it goes without saying about panos, patricia, lance, eric, sean, andrew, mike (berube), katia, erica, laura, kyung-hee, nathan, alex, lisa, glenn, anton, marcin (never ending hometown ;)) ), christina, joni, kelly, wrobert, chris, jason, brendan, audrey, alex, katherine, kloie, and panos…and all the other’s i’ve met here (and the ones who i know look, but dont say anything)…i can only speak for myself, but i’ve done nothing but think about, shoot, edit, breathe, cry, hate, spit, swallow bones since the day i saw my dad in NC…almost to the point where i think Marina and Dima need a new husband/dad…and i think for any of us who put our entire lives on the line for our work, do not think your critique of Cathy was harsh, but just AFFIRMATIVE…to go back and begin again…Bones now comes from a specific assignemnt (for you) as an idea, which slowly turned into a story for my father and my son and for you…and no way, no fucking way i could have gotten there if i shot 1 day, did a quick edit and then served it up to y’all…

    I do not think you should do these online critiques under pressure. And as i told both Cathy and Herve yesterday, Cathy has shown lots of work here and had the benefit of your eye and words here long before sunday, which is was dismayed me, but i also think that this effort did bring everyone closer together…

    i do not want you to be overwhelmed by this blog…i have always been amazed that you give so tirelessly of yourself (that selflessness has kept me here when many days i want to say: fuck the blog, i got work to do with this photography and writing)…but if you see fit to only critique face-to-face, i will abide that…but i also think that your long analaysis was the kind of thing that many many people need, the kind of thing that must be in the head of all phtogoraphers from the get go, and if only that, you have served all of us well…

    those who thought you were being too hard on Cathy, fail to see (as i have written so many times before here) how MOST OF THE ENTIRE PHOTOGRAHY WORLD (editors, galleries, publications, other photographers) are not going to give a fuck about your work, won’t get it, won’t like it and will totally ignore you (foto8 didnt even have the courtesty to write me back, for example). If people are not ready and willing to LOVE THEIR WORK, DIE FOR THEIR WORK, when the rest of the world cares less, the work will mean nothing…