letter to friends..

bubble gum


Normally comments do not end up on the front page of Burn…however, as we get ready to move into a new year and are looking at a new design to better display the work of our audience photographers, i thought it would be interesting for those of you who do not read comments here to understand the behind the scenes discussions that go on here everyday with this audience…below is my last comment to readers in connection with how we can best use the comment section…the question of course is: do we stay as we are or do we go to a forum format…if interested you might just have to catch up a bit by checking out reader reaction under Viva Freedom..


THOMAS..MARCIN..ALL

there is no time line..and we are just having a conversation..i simply asked for some feedback, and it has been quite helpful…we are planning a bit of a redesign (when we can afford it, very expensive) to make things work a bit better and i was thinking perhaps that this would be a good time to try to fix the comments section…everyone can see there is some problem if one is not here everyday to keep up or simply miss constructive  comments in with all of the chit chat..however the solutions do not seem to necessarily be solutions either…and of course part of it is just personal as i so stated in the very beginning…how should i participate or in what way is best for what i feel i have to offer?

were i not publishing Burn , you would not find me on the internet except maybe to buy a camera and use Google for some research before a shoot…i was never a blogger at all and participated in no online community before i started Road Trips…so the ramble scramble of online chat is not something that i naturally gravitate towards…what i do enjoy, and why i started Road Trips, was to see if i could take the work in did mentoring in person and do it online…to see if i could do online what i seemed to be able to do with workshops..to help mentor the next generation and perhaps find a photographer who had been passed by and show their work….

please remember that Road Trips grew and became Burn ONLY  because i decided to show the WORK OF READERS instead of just my own..Road Trips did not feature any audience/reader work at all…it was only my personal diary…some say they preferred this, like Marcin…but i felt it would really be interesting to see what the audience was doing and so Burn was born…

then i thought , hmmm i wonder if we could actually print a magazine from this audience, and set a good example for all by getting some donations and sponsorships, and  paying photographers online…so this is what we did….

“we” being of course Anton and i primarily and throughout the history of Burn, but also with the help of Kerry Payne on the biz side and now with Diego Orlando, who masterminded the printing, and picture editor Anna Barry and Michelle Smith doing Burn 01 biz and Michael Courvoisier just keeping me in line on every angle.

all along, even with Road Trips, i had to consider how much time i was going to put into my online life and try to balance this with my own photographic work…right now as you can imagine i have two full time jobs….and interestingly enough quite well balanced, at least for the moment…but i am sure you know that i absolutely 100% cannot and will not let my own photography slide..either with shooting or with printing/publishing  and editing…all i really have to offer you as a mentor is that i am now “in it” myself…this is the same for Anton who wants to primarily be a photographer with Burn in second place..so we both feel the same in this regard..neither of us can totally drop everything else we are doing and just do Burn…actually if we did that, the irony would probably be that it would kill Burn…so time management is certainly part of this equation…

part of the fun here i think with both Road Trips and Burn, is that the audience , as like right now, has always been a part of the evolution and always knew the “business plan” because i would write about it over my morning coffee as an announcement to all….so Marcin you may lament the loss of Road Trips, but i think you must agree that i never left…like right now, i mean right now, if you Marcin gave me pictures to view and edit and consider for Burn or for anything, do you think i would do it?? and Thomas i AM waiting right now for ideas from you for an assignment….

so do not cry too much yet…we are all still here and intact and doing the best we can from our laptops set up in coffee shops and airports and sometimes from home…

right now, i mean right now, i am listening to you …as i always have and always will..that is why i did this post…Burn is NOT going to become some big commercial operation as some have suggested…anybody who knows me (and many of you now do) know Burn would never never become something else… we know what Burn is and what it means to you..we only want to make it better for all of us….and if it does not become better or grow in a way that makes sense for all of us, then we will go and do something else…and not for one minute not be very proud of what we did right here with all of you….

cheers, david

676 Responses to “letter to friends..”


  • a civilian-mass audience

         
    “I haven’t a clue as to how our story will end. But that’s all right. When you set out on a JOURNEY and night covers the road, you don’t conclude the road has vanished. And how else could we discover the stars?”

  • a civilian-mass audience

         
    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.”
     Mark Twain

    Oime…I can’t get my eyes off the balloon…:))))))))))))))

  • CIVI..

    that Twain quote is my most favorite quote when i was about 12 years old….still is

  • a civilian-mass audience

    That’s when all started…hmmm…I knew there must be …some explanation…:)

    I wish I have read it sooner…but it’s never late…

    Explore,Dream,Discover…my BURNIANS !

    P.S better run for the doc ap…best luck to Simon!

  • “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.”

    AKAKY IRL: No.

    AKAKY: Come on, let’s live a little.

    AKAKY IRL: No to all of the above. You’re not going anywhere so the bowlines stay where they are. Not only are you not sailing away from the safe harbor, you’re not getting on the boat in the safe harbor.

    AKAKY: You really are a stick in the mud, you know that?

    AKAKY IRL: So you keep telling me.

    AKAKY: Jerk.

    AKAKY IRL: Likewise, I’m sure.

  • Home from shooting Fedora.. to find a new picture.. cool, ok, I think I got it: let’s make some noise in here, that’s the way to get to see photographs!!! :)

  • a civilian-mass audience

    BURNIANS,
    LOOK what I found…actually MARCIN found it…he though he lost it but he found it…

    marcin luczkowski
    November 30, 2010 at 10:20 am
    Anyway All what is matter is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_1NbA4JtQM

  • a civilian-mass audience

    And now,I will blend …AKAKY with EVA…and voilà the cocktail :

    Come on, let’s live a little… let’s make some noise in here, that’s the way to get to see photographs!!! :)

  • a civilian-mass audience

    And I will go to watch football…you keep shooting:)

  • Watch football? Come on live a little..
    (Civi / Akaky power mix)

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Who is in charge now… Hey MR.P…:)))))))))))???

    I better not mess with Greeks…:)))

  • EVA / PANOS …… regarding the ordering of the images in picasa / flickr …… thought of a way so tht they do not get cropped ….if you make all images square by adding white borders (horizontal ones fr horizontal images and vertical borders fr vertical images .)so tht all of them are squares like mounted slides …… u will view em like mounted slides witout any crop to the actual image…. or in my opinion square format images remain unaffected …..

    so far for arranging moving images withing folders flickr is the one with the most features but its pain to get used its operating style …….

    piacasa is much more user friendly …. but … u cant move when arranging

    anyways none have the option of increasing thumbnail sizes while actually doing the edit ……

  • regarding the current discussion about forums … almost every body finds this system in some way or the other helpful …… may b a bit confusing …… but still essays r being made and getting published …..honestly expecting more is kind of appealing as being greedy to me …

    its lik yh a 6 megapixel and a windows 2000 machine VS a 39 megapixel hasselblad and a 16 core mac pro with a 40 inch 3D LED monitor along with an ipad to flaunt around with ………. …….

    sometimes greed is good though ……

  • David, you may or may not remember my advocacy in New York for keeping the freewheeling creative of Road Trips going in BURN and to that end, open comments, as well as steering clear of the crass commercial that is so prevalent nearly everywhere else, i.e. keep it real and keep it a reflection of its creator. So sure, it limits revenue streams and as John Gladdy related in his proverb so well, can get a little rowdy and crazy at times, but who wants to do a uptight dinner party when you can really live.

    What to do about comments? The best creativity can dissolve into chaos without structure so the rub is always in the balance. There is such great potential in this salon you’ve got going here but you still need a strong but light touch on the rudder, yes? And, bottom line, you have to be the one doing it. You have in the past indicated you were stepping back a bit, and not just because of your first priority, or perhaps I misread that, and that certainly does not seem to be the case now. I’m not sure you will ever be able to successfully transition BURN away from the strong personal stamp you have here, mi amigo. Again, perhaps I was reading too much between the lines but as in all you do, the authorship here may be too unique to pass on, at least in its current incarnation.

    While I think a true “forum” style would be a huge mistake, I do think a redesign of BURN beyond the blog-style is long overdue and could provide a little more structure without limiting the possibilities. I could be wrong of course. If I remember correctly, this current design was meant to be a short-term intermediate step so you could go live right away? Now, I believe with a good redesign that incorporates comments, better showcases multiple photo essays at once, as well as written essays with singles, and perhaps adds a few back rooms to the bar, BURN can evolve closer the vision we had in New York. Was that the idea we had in New York, or just me? ;-))

    Next step? Does a redesign have to be expensive? With the exposure of BURN would it be possible to have a contest for a redesign, or a contest to choose a designer or design team to work with? Of course this would have to be well promoted outside just photo circles but I am sure there are young, hungry teams of crazy creatives out there salivating at the opportunity to show their chops. This is fresh, raw clay with incredible content hard to beat. This fits in with what we were talking about on your porch. If I were at XYZ publishing house looking at the ipad and with a decent budget, I would find and put together the hippest craziest group of young artists, musicians, designers, photographers, and code warriors in a tricked-out warehouse with an older experienced team leader, send them over the edge, and bring it all back down to something that would actually work. (Isn’t this what Apple did in the early days?) For BURN, I’m sure you could find the right virtual team with a little planning and promotion.

    Hey man, I’m not saying I have THE answer at all, I’m just offering my humble opinion for what it’s worth. I hope you find it helpful David.

  • Addendum.

    It is easy to run ahead of a good design process by settling in on specifics too early. So if you want to address the issue of comments, I think you need to do that within the context of an overall redesign process for BURN that starts with the basic broad strokes of conceptual goals that capitalize on the lessons learned to date and works down to specific implementation at the end, not the beginning. Make sense?

  • And to immediately contradict myself …

    a. seriously reconsider white on dark text. The gray background is good for photos, not so much for text.
    b. David, please, please, please consider showing more of your work here. With a redesign you could do this while simultaneously showcasing emerging work and avoiding what you consider uncool (?). Perhaps a good starting point would be featuring a “shoot a card” showcase like your workshops with discussion.
    c. Apologies for taking this beyond comments on comments.
    d. You did ask :))

  • Yes, it would help to understand more the scope of the redesign. So far it’s all been about comments, though I’m sure making it more Apple friendly is on the agenda as well.

    Me? I’m fine with the current front page look. It doesn’t seem broken to me. Leave the slideshow, editorial content, and comments for the featured work more or less as is, if that’s the easiest. Then maybe have a nondescript link to “other dialog” that goes to a page with the different forums. On that page, you can have forums where it’s encouraged to stay on topic and other forums where delicate souls can enter at their own risk.

    Or something else entirely. I’m looking forward to the discussion.

  • Feel I should clarify a bit. I make quips about delicate souls, but when it comes to personal attacks and general nastiness I am one. Although I like intelligent criticism no matter how harsh and general weirdness no matter how weird, and even the creative trading of negative personal quips if done artfully, when it gets nastily personal, I stop following the discussion. Hopefully, a well designed forum structure will provide other outlets than the exit.

  • TOM HYDE..

    what part of david alan harvey would suggest uptight dinner party?? and what part is commercial and where oh where are closed comments?? scratching my bald head on this one…Gladdy comment was priceless in its prose, but as both of you well know way off in any reality of what i in fact DO…. as i clearly said i was trying to pattern my online expression as my loft shows which i do not think could ever be characterized as “uptight” and yet do provide a time for respectful showing of work..THEN we break the house down…you know how it goes ..but yes, the online experience is a different animal…i know that…i just want to get free from the all too often vulgar image of online chat if possible…maybe it is not possible…

    in any case, yes good ideas for possible re-design and thinking that forum would be a mistake…any thoughts on keeping it freewheeling, yet still having some sort of apres order for the really choice comments?? i mean you and many others have written some brilliant things that are lost forever or would be very hard to find…how can we keep “open” and yet have the minutes of the meeting edited down for later archiving…any thoughts?

    by the way, no need to read between the lines…i say what i mean

    MW..

    the redesign would simply allow us to do more with archiving and with having more stories available to see at any one time more easily….in any case, when we have our meeting , we would love for you to be there…the comments part came up pre-maturely just because it is a topic that has always come up since the beginning…do not worry…we will put first things first…all of this is a conversation, not a dictum

  • DAH & Anton,

    If it is decided that current comments structure is to be retained on Burn for dialogue (rather than switching to a forum), perhaps there are some existing WordPress plug-ins that can improve the search and archiving of comments.

    Off-topic: I know I’m a bit late to the Burn01 party; I just received my copy from the Magnum store yesterday. AWESOME! I didn’t realize just how cool it was going to be to hold a tangible piece of Burn and see the essays in print.

  • JUSTIN SMITH..

    pleased you like 01….i am not the tech person as you probably can assume, and Anton is traveling…he would know…maybe that is the answer, just better archiving OR an editor who edits AFTER the conversation is over rather than inhibit before…anyway, many thanks for your suggestions…

    cheers, david

  • DAVID:

    Don’t have time to read all the comments on the latest two dialogue posts, but I can certainly see the logic behind changing how the comments and dialogue sections work.

    I don’t write too much, but I read the dialogue quite often, and it’s good fun and often very interesting. I certainly would not want Burn to turn into another Lightstalkers. It can be difficult to follow the dialogue if you don’t read every day and the topic is jumping all over the place, but that’s part of Burn’s character for me. You can just drop into the party and see what’s going on at that time, take part if you wish and come back another time and it’s a different party.

    The regular contributors keep it going, and that’s good too. I know some people feel it is a bit of a “members’ club” but I find that if you have something good or interesting to say people take notice. Not always, but that is just how it is. And the occasional person who gets a bit of shit, is, I hate to say it, usually deserving it. If you are going to insult people online or say foolish things, then you get what you deserve. It’s that simple.

    A question: do you envision anybody being able to start a new dialogue post? If yes I think that could get a bit messy.

    I still think that it would be reasonable to ask people who want to comment and take part in the dialogues to pay a modest contribution fee of say $20 – 30. That way you would be more assured that the people who write are serious and being involved with Burn.

    And because this is a DAH party (something I have yet to experience in the flesh), perhaps you should have a disclaimer for those that sign up that if you overstep the mark, then Panos and his crew will jump on you!

    On a different topic:

    I have followed up your suggestion for the submission, and it should be there. I have sent you another email about this today. If you have a moment before DC please let me know your thoughts on schedule etc.

    Cheers,

    Justin P

  • wow! David, thanks for your post. it is really encouraging and motivating.
    currently, I’m caught in the dynamics of my profession. (i.e. I’m constantly reshuffling travel schedules.) I’ll prepare all assigent proposals during the weekend.
    in terms of discussing and supporting you on the redesign I get the impression, I might be too slow for you. looking at the current flow of discussions.

    you know, I currently feel so much energy, I would like to jump into collating requirements and selecting a forum or platform fulfilling the needs here. (I have some experience in the computer related stuff) at the same time, I know my boundaries time- and travelwise and don’t want to hold you back from anything.

    first things first, I’ll come up with my essay proposals and then will act from there.
    probably computer science is meant yo be my history and not my future. :)

  • The comments would be better focused and more on point if the essays and singles were posted more quickly. We always turn our attention to the next thing. Sometimes it’s a week later. So the threads take on a life of their own. If we had, say, two new essays or singles per week — and could count on the regularity — I think the commenting (hard and soft) would improve.

  • “what part of david alan harvey would suggest uptight dinner party?? and what part is commercial and where oh where are closed comments??”

    David, perhaps I am not expressing myself clearly. Apologies. You misinterpreted what I wrote 180. I was merely restating discussions held at the inception of BURN and applauding the direction it has taken as opposed to the uptight dinner party or commercial direction it could have but DID NOT take.

  • Looking at both threads it seems that most are more concerned about getting rid of comments they don’t like than what David sees the role of burn being. Burn is not about self nor is it about greed …………..

  • I start to wonder if all those of us asking for something (less comments, different comments, more essays, our own essays.. you name it) are also willing to do something.. to write less comments, to write different ones, to work on essays.. whatever.. is it not possible that just by thinking a bit before posting, each one controlling just oneself, we could avoid all or a bit of the scratching of heads.. after all, it can’t be healthy to scratch a bald head too much??

    Burn does a lot for me.. what do *I* do for burn?

  • I found safe harbor… but I was too busy taking photos to sail… and ended up back in bed…

    http://www.leegillen.com/Public/Blog/Entries/2010/11/21_Stop_and_look_2_files/L1002906.jpg

  • ……… that silent majority this is what they had to say

    http://www.etrouko.com/iman.htm

  • Yes, certainly I should think more before posting. Good advice.

  • YOUNG TOM..

    so now i am guilty of “selective reading” ?…my apologies back to you…i should have known…or read way way more carefully…i was surprised considering you know me and the process of inventing the animal as you do…you were a part of the inventing team…earlier today Marcin took me 180 off too….have you ever noticed that some days are better for communicating than others? hmmmm, now IF we could only know in advance which were which we might all live in bigger houses…that was joke Tom, a joke… :)

    PRESTON…

    we DO post exactly two new essays per week, actually more if you look at the annual average of about 150 essays ..and oftentimes a Dialogue post as well….sometimes one may stay on the front page for a whole week , but there is always a new one as well…there have been some very few exceptions to this…for sure we cannot generate material faster than we are doing with the resources we have……

    i do see your point and you are right about a thread going sideways after the story has been up for awhile, but producing these essays requires way more work than you imagine..we do not just take a submission and just post it..there is a whole back and forth process as in any magazine….even for me it seems sometimes like we need new stories faster, but it must be like eating red raw meat or something..we get wild animal appetites that are not realistic…as we start contemplating more sophisticated essays for the iPad, we will actually most likely produce less not more…throw in video/audio etc and you have a whole new production ball game

    one of the problems is not our production which is way more essays and pics per month than NatGeo or any other print magazine , but just the attention span of all of us these days…the net gobbles up material as does television….i hear you and i know what you are saying, but do not have a solution at hand at the moment….give me two million bucks and a staff of 20 and we would kill everyone out there in print and for the iPad with daily updates…i think i have told you all the so called iconics want to shoot for Burn..but we are finally a mom and pop shop …and from all i can read here from most of our readers is that more than anything they want to keep us homey, personal, accessible, and a place to hang your hat…ok, well just give me one million bucks and i will keep it homey and still kill everyone out there!! smiling…. :)

    cheers, david

  • a civilian-mass audience

    I don’t see anyone out there…hmmm…
    Maybe I haven’t been out …that much:)

    But I believe that MR.HARVEY…you have a million…1,000,000.00 readers…
    Mass Audience hmmm…
    Maybe I need to recheck my logistics… :)

  • David “Burn is NOT going to become some big commercial operation…”
    I admire you for this boldness.

    Civi – That Twain quote reminds me of a professor I had – He had some sayings that came to be known as “Davy-isms” – “Be comfortable not knowing what you’re doing,” “Get into enough confusion that you find something new,” “Work outside your comfort zone,” and “If you don’t work with your hands, you’re no fuckin’ good.”

    David – I too would like to see more of your work here – you often talk about your current projects but you don’t show much of that here, even your main website shows work that most who know you are familiar with. Now maybe it is because of contracts and restrictions to keep the photos unpublished to ensure your clients have the true first rights, I am not certain.

    Tom – I think the expense of upgrading the site is in part, probably majority, compensation for time. Anton and David both go through a level of hell or two when working on the web. It’s a strenuous task of fighting with technologies, softwares, scripts, codes, and tech support. I know because I’ve dealt with it on a great many occasions for myself.

    All – the questions of Design – Black on white, white on Black, Grey tones, and such – since my background is in design arts and thinking about this task of choosing readability and viewing images appropriately – it becomes a bit disastrous at the end. Some photos are best viewed with a black border, some with white. Text is almost always considered easier to read when it’s dark on light. but images vary drastically. The background can set a mood in the photographs as well. Too dark around the image and dark areas in the image will begin to flatten and look as though they are all one tone. Too light, and highlights feel blown out. I think the greys David and Anton have chosen work very nicely. although, I would (if I had any say) recommend lightening they grey up a tiny bit. The text boxes could then follow suit to an even lighter tone, much like the box I’m currently typing in now, with the text darker.

    I feel like the over all purpose of this magazine is to present photography, and then discuss it as in a gallery. Therefor the words should not be distracting unless they are a part of the work its self. Even though the greatest knowledge and wisdom is to be found in the text.

    David – If I can be of any assistance…

  • David – I hope your cat is doing better soon… Sounds awful

  • Maybe changing to a 3-5 comment per person per essay would change the dynamics sufficiently…for 98% of the readership.

  • DAVID,

    If I misunderstood your comment, I apologize for that, I hope you forgive me.
    It is not first time so let we make silent on it.

  • I’m sorry but I don’t believe that anyone of the individuals here or anywhere can represent the 98% of anything.. Self flattering to the fullest :(

  • a civilian-mass audience

    TOM HYDE…TOM YOUNG…how can we forget…?
    “you were a part Of the inventing team”…Bravo…!f
    Hmmm…that means you are responsible too for the BURNing mess , we are experiencing now.
    If only you have done a better design…oime! ( please, to be perceived as a joke)
    Love you mate!

    JUSTIN.P…thank you
    You are right…there is no “club” here…we have BURNIANS from all over the Universe…
    I haven’t heard from My African friends yet…and I need updates from KATIE FONSECA…from Costa Rica…
    MyGRACIE,DAVIDB,HERVE…and many,many others…

    JUSTIN.S
    Enjoy!

    JASON…thanks for the quotes…I will copy and paste them!

    We are wishing best recovery for the BURNED cat…

    Now, you will excuse me…I need to go for few days…
    Who knows…I might find something …for the table:)

    Peace,Love and PHOTOGRAPHY!!!

  • 1 or 3 or 5 comments…? Per person?
    Military stuff..

  • DAVID,

    quick question do you know a photographer Kent Kobersteen? I just find his pictures here http://allegro.pl/sygnowana-leica-m6-kenta-kobersteena-zdjecie-i1336401810.html

    the same place and the guy with ax

    Well, I see who is the Master :)

  • MARCIN…

    yes, smiling…we will make silent on it….

    Kent Kobersteen was the Director of Photography at National Geographic up until a few years ago…he did a fast trip to Oaxaca when i was working there for the magazine and stayed in the town of Chicahaustla with me and was around while i was shooting…i never knew he was making his own pictures too….at least not for distribution….i am a bit surprised he would use this particular shot in an ad for Leica since anyone can see it the same place as my photograph in Div Soul …hmmmm….anyway, Kent is retired, a good guy, and old friend and regular reader of Burn as well…

    cheers, david

  • David; Did Martin Parr ever start (or is shooting) the Walmart piece at all?

  • “Looking at both threads it seems that most are more concerned about getting rid of comments they don’t like than what David sees the role of burn being. Burn is not about self nor is it about greed …………..”

    worlds of truth..and truth hurts

    Some of the commenters here put a lot of time and thought in their writings:
    (akaky, bob, civi, sidney,tom hyde, erica, imants, davidB,Lassal just to name a few)
    They are the philosophers , thinkers of burn.. I read them no matter where they post and I never think that they “interrupted” the flow, or hijacked anyone or anything..
    In a church you are NOT supposed to talk, think, interrupt, change the subject, interfere, intervene, smoke s joint over a beer, debate or expand yours or anyones mind..
    Google map the nearest location of a church to your house and have a nice peaceful Sunday morning..
    This is “Burn” and it suppose to be closer to “hell than heaven”…
    Otherwise let’s change the name of the blog into “blue skies” or “heavens” or “enlighten” or “ascend”
    or “the ten commandments”… Or something ..
    I agree on one thing though..
    Yes to less “road rage”.. No to “anonymous”, no to Trolls,
    Yes to the “usual suspects UFO’s “.. Like Akaky and Civi ..
    Actually it would have been a major turn off if I knew who them two are in real life… I like their mystery..and both are tested and “safe”…
    But I suggest for any new comer jumping on the boat to be open enough, man and woman enough to show their real identity.. No initials, no funny names, no bullshit..
    Show your face and name and say whatever you want.. And take responsibility of your bullshit..
    So we have less incidents of funky trolls like the troll attacks we had two years ago from, Flies on the walls, and “son of fly” or “the stepdaughter of a spider” and bullshit like that..
    Moderate and eliminate any comment that is marked unknown or Initials or anything..
    No problem with MW or EMCD because we already know them..

    You see part of “road rage incidents ” is because the powerful feeling of anonymity behind your wheel..
    It was a blue Camry almost killed me! Well go figure , there only 5 million blue camrys out there..:(
    I think it’s an identity problem..
    On the other side they have been fights and nasty debates even with commenters that are NOT anonymous (and I can easily claim responsibility for some of those fights.. Some were uncalled for and some absolutely “necessary”)”.. And I don’t think that could be eliminated in real life either.. We would still have a fight/debate in david’s loft same way as over here and there is nothing wrong with that.. Time and maturity can ease that problem but not eliminate it since we are all real people with tempers and personal issues/problems..again just as real life..)

  • JASON…

    the main reason Burn would never become a big commercial operation is that i am just not a businessman…..i am a photographer to the core…yes, i am in business as a photographer, but others do all the business…i do not have the proper business head….i would be giving away my pictures if it was up to me…just ask the people who try to sell my pictures!! i could sell your pictures or anyone’s , just not mine…

    however, both Anton and i are going to start publishing our own essays and works in progress here…not much, but some…once in awhile…a couple of weeks ago when i was chatting with Paolo Pellegrin and Larry Towell and realized they wanted to be published here, i thought hmmmmm, that would be nice…after all Burn is looked at all over the place…so in certain situations we will publish here as well….in my case, mostly to start a discussion for Dialogue with either a current or past project, but in Anton’s case his current work in progress with the Yakuza will be his main topic i am sure…

    cheers, david

  • now here is a case in point with the problem with our current system…Preston made a point about 20 comments back…i answered him…now if Preston does not come back on here til tomorrow or the next day, he will never ever see the comment i wrote to him specifically….now Preston IF you see this or saw my response let me know…maybe you automatically go back to your own last comment….i do not know…we will find out…thanks

  • “And take responsibility of your bullshit.” Panos, the world would be a better place if everyone followed that advice… BTW, I think Ross drives a Camry – better make sure he is still in NZ :-)

  • PANOS..

    you are absolutely right on with your comment….and i would NEVER want to eliminate any of those attributes you mentioned…none of them…for they are the heart and soul of Burn…i have not seen one so called fight break out among those you mentioned where apologies were not forthcoming if warranted….and if someone left because the “fire of Burn” got too hot, well then they must not have had much constitution anyway…after all the Burn Nation is not made up of wimps!!! laughing….like Vincent Price in Thriller…:)

    cheers, david

  • One million, two million. Guess we need to get our checkbooks out.

  • Even if someone wants to be named ” Initials ” or “snowstorm” still the administrator should have access to their real life names.. I know it sounds like a small, irrelevant step towards developing comments and attitude but I’m sure that even roadrage would be less if we had our NAMES and phone numbers on a neon sign on top of our “camrys”

  • LEE…

    all we need is 99 cents a month from everybody….less than one third the price of a cup of Starbucks latte…and if they show up at my house, they get all the beer they can drink…now, is that an investment or what?? oh yeah, plus Burn!!!

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