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Panos Skoulidas

Sunblock, Botox and Detox


“Jim Morrison” himself once told me:

“…there is no way in hell you can go CLOSE  to the flame and not get burned…

go close, closer, get BURNED feel the pain, feel the devil breathing on your neck…

pay your dues… ”

That was the thought that kept me sane while i was sweating at the back seat of that police car… those words kept my brain in order when i was struggling with those handcuffs… The “either my wrist is too big or the cuffs too tight” thought wasn’t really helping me at all…

Go CLOSE, “if you hands are free, you ain’t close enough”, i thought and then i passed out….

It took me a while, quite a few  visits to Venice Beach to realize that there is more than the eye can see…

There is the MORNING, welcoming Venice Beach, rollerblades, beautiful one speed beach bicycles, hot girls with bikinis, studs with their ipods strapped on their bare arm… tourists, kids, little dogs, big dogs, INNOCENCE….

As the sun dives into  the pacific, as the noon passes quickly, there is another

“cast” waking up, slowly… the “unfortunate”, the drunks, the homeless, THE UNSTABLE…. you can hear the beer  pouring & smell the  “mary-jane” burning…

SUNSET comes, the vampires now are really up…

the FREAK SHOW  begins…

The TRANSITION from light to darkness comes through the Venice Sunset.. the golden lights,

the MAGIC begins…

The “innocent families” are heading home… Another beautiful day in the Beach  is over…

Over ??????… Hmmm , i dont think so…

When the darkness comes, a whole another Venice wakes up…

Sirens, handcuffs, pain, suffering, BLOOD…. lot’s of blood…

Ladies & Gentlemen,

Welcome to Venice Beach… to my venice world….

relax, enjoy and remember : ” …if you don’t feel the pain, you ain’t CLOSE enough….”

ok, next Corona on me !!!


panos skoulidas


352 thoughts on “panos skoulidas – venice”

  1. okay.

    for me this just feels like a collection of single images;

    there are some interesting photographs in there, but too many “fillers” for me.

    i find the inconsistencies in style and processing awkward as well – one moment grainy and low contrast, the next black and white, then straight to a kind of “alex webb” style high contrast image.

    thats it for me – a collection of single photographs. needs a tighter edit and a better sequence.

  2. WOW. Panos, you’ve really gone & done it here. All those months of nights in the low light of Venice Beach. Days when the sun was bright enough to split open your crusted eyelids. This makes it ALL worthwhile. Sure there will be those who miss the point but, hey man, I did too at the start. For those who don’t get it, I say try it again & again & again until you no longer see this as a photo essay but as life washing over you like surf washing over the sands of Panos’ beach. This, my dear bro, is HOT!!!


  3. “An artist is a creature driven by demons. He doesn’t know why they choose him and he’s usually too busy to wonder why.”-faulkner

    Brother P: ironically, i just started re-reading Dostoevsky’s “Besty” (Demons) which had until recently been translated as “The Possessed” when in fact, the title in russian means Demons. A novel filled with madness and black humour, ideas and laughter, death and expansion….the wilding of our possessed selves when consumed by the ideas and times that rattle and cage our waking, panic-licked, drum-kicked lives….

    and this is brilliant and exciting groove to step out into amigo…

    ….besides the brilliant title, and the many remarkable images (#2, 3,6, 13, 18, 20, 25, 26, 28 (i love the flash and this white banana foot!!!!), 36, 40-44, 50, 51 (grain looks familiar ;)) ), 55(!), 56, 59, 60, 63 (iconic!)), is that it is still only the beginning of this intense carnival….anyone that has closely followed this work over the last year would have thought it to Panos’ story, but in truth as the remarkable images and story play it out is really the story of Venice, or rather, the story of a group of people…akin to Goldberg’s kids or bukowski’s dry-humping drunks and poets and gimlet swingers, this story never, not once, condescends but instead celebrates the human show (not the freak show that many think is venice) the lost and lonely and loving folk that call this small corner by the sea traffic’t by tourists and givemeups, strippers and skaters, body-nukes and brain-ribbed cops, the whole, the all that is the LA that I knew when i lived there can still be best understood at Venice, not the venice of the cliche, but the venice of the swing from light to dark to dusk….and it’s all here man, all here in all these images….just as a i never weary of Bukowski’s poems or stories, so too the images for me from Venice…..

    that the way to tell the story of a place is to be a part of that place, to spend enough time that it becomes part of who you are as well, not in order to separate but in order to be able to celebrate all that surrounds, the yellow’d night light and toilet water, the red dream blood on the floor and nails on the fingers, the white balloons and the white irridencence of the eyes forlorn….all there panos…

    venice will never detox because we are never rid of all our own demons…and demons, at least for me, do not suggest terror or evil but rather the difficulty, the playfulness and the manic love and lusts of what it means to be possessed of this living life that shall depart….

    i love it brother and happy to see it play wide…


  4. hmmm.. for me this was about as easy to swallow as a fistful of venice sand. i mean maybe i’m missing the point here or something.. but this just seemed kind of haphazardly thrown together with some good images in there but by and large as ben put “too many “fillers””. it left me thinking “how is this on this website?” no disrespect to the photographer or anybody associated with putting this together but that’s just how it struck me. i apologize but i just had to get this off my chest.

  5. Panos portfolio’s to tell me more about him, not exactly the story for me.
    I really enjoy the different style of images and I getting closer his personality.
    (If somebody knows Panos much better maybe will disprove me.)
    Congratulation for your “daring” portfolio.

    Cheers, Gyula

  6. Anton, i would rather say “rap” than “rock”.
    ( thank U master for the slideshow )

  7. OK. I think that right now I see in Panos too ways of shooting. One is raw, direct and not cliche because it doesn’t think much and the other is more trying to put things together. You would think that the first often brings the story more forwards, but I find the whole a bit empty. Maybe it is that there are many photographs (beer, food, some unknown lady) that do not bring me much. I do absolutely love others, that are aesthetically pleasing yet they have a lot of content behind them (namely #40 and #60). They seem not to specially try to fit in any place, but due to the amount of time that Panos has spend on location at some point some simple images just *had* to work well. They don’t need any weird angles, no overexposures, no fiddling with the colours to make them work. Whatever his camera or phone had in front of them at that point just had to make a good image. I like those, and I wish the finished essay dropped much of the emptier fluff in their behalf.

  8. I have to agree with Ben and Matt. There is some really great work in there, but way too much filler. This is a very very good start to a work in progress, but I think there is so much more to be done. This is a project that Panos could spend years and years on. I would pull the 15 or twenty great images out and call it chapter one.

    Don’t quit on this story yet Panos, I am sure that is not your intention. I think you have just scratched the surface. My advice would be to go deeper. Way Deeper! A great start. Love the title.

  9. Gyula hi,
    i totally agree with you.
    i was trying the “mirror effect”.
    you really “nailed” it.
    i wasn’t really trying to tell a story.
    Just like i said to Patricia , while ago,
    i admire her because she is “putting herself” into the “story”…
    100%…. her ( my ) intimate relationship with the world… i was trying to expose,
    not trying to “tell” you how to “see” the world, or how to see “venice beach”..
    you have your own eyes for that, im sure… you dont need me…
    but you “need” me for one thing, and one “thing” only…
    just to express my “intimate” relationship with it (venice) as
    Antoine D’Agata would say..
    peace & hugs..

  10. Ben hi,
    i do see the “obvious” inconsistencies” you mentioned.
    you are so right… its just me.. my “inconsistencies”,
    my “non professionalism” , my “freestyle” …is sooo obvious…
    but honestly, i don’t “see” any “alex webb” style in my work…
    i could see “DAH black shadows” influence, but even that is too far stretched out…
    but , alex webb’s style, in my work????
    thank you, thank you for that, but i dont see any of that…!!!
    hmmm, at least not conciously…
    again, thank u for your critique!

  11. Mat hi,
    thank u for your thoughts, critique also…
    you said that u might be missing the “point”???
    no worries,honestly…. there is NO POINT…. you are missing!
    at least “no point”, as far as i’m concerned…
    so , no reason to apologize…
    i wasn’t really trying to make “one”… just
    “mirroring” myself… mirroring my own misery and pain…

  12. panos

    my comments aren’t based on a perceived lack of “professionalism”…

    i’m just stating what is clear to me when i looked at this photo-essay.

    here’s the bare facts – i couldn’t watch it further than around 30 images – at this point i lost interest and focus. its all well and good having this idea that the story is about YOU and YOUR experience, but unless this is shown to me in an articulate, visually stunning way, then i’ll quickly lose interest.

    you referenced Antoine D’Agata in a different response – lets just think about Agata for a moment – one mans journey through a dark, mysterious underworld, riven with sexual tension, symbolism and sinister characters. all shot in a highly stylised way, yet there is still a strong consistency in his work.

    now by no means am i saying that you should be shooting like this person or like another person – of course you have to find your own voice – but in this essay i’m not hearing or seeing YOU. the photographs feel like they could have been taken by several different photographers using several different cameras and processed in several different ways. this doesn’t make for a cohesive essay.

    i know i’m not alone in feeling this way, and you can try and avoid it if you want – but i think this scattergun approach to documenting your experiences will hinder this story from evolving into anything more than a collection of single images. i think you need to be harder on yourself in editing, and more focused in the themes and story strands that make up your project.

  13. Today is Panos day! Not many reach such a dizzy height Panos: I know it hasn’t ben easy but you have got yourself real close – I can almost feel the heat. Like Ben, I thought I saw a little “Hot Light” aka. Alex Web but immediately said to myself no, it’s pure Panos. Some really strong photographs here. Congratulations, but from now on, don’t use words like non-professional.

    Mike R.

  14. There are some really excellent images (#40 is a knock-out!), but as said above, they seem hastily taken and compiled; there is a real lack of coherency in the story and maybe more importantly, the aesthetics. I have no problem mixing colour and b/w (Trent Parke has done it well), but most often it weakens an essay. Photo #51 looks like the crappy PS noise filter.

    Also, as a general comment to the first two essays, I’m getting turned off by the sheer number of images especially when I feel like I’m looking through a person’s unedited photo library — the whole library! And why add music? Both times I have been distracted and feel that it’s more appropriate for a wedding photog’s website — and not “burn” — even if this is just the first incarnation.


  15. I agree with the “needs editing” group. There are some very strong images here but the strength of the essay is diluted.

    I don’t know about Panos but it is GREAT to see comments here that are not all euphoric. What is there to learn when everyone is saying only congratulations? :))

    Honesty is a good thing…

  16. Panos-

    hmmm.. well i guess i just feel that a photographic essay should have a point. i mean i need something that i can hold onto that will carry me through the essay, a common thread or some other kind of linkage.. as it is it’s put together in a very disparate way that just feels very disjointed. so again i’m going to defer to what ben writes up there i think he hit it on the head. not trying to piss on the parade but….

    and i’m not sure what “mirroring” yourself is.

  17. panos and ben,

    this is actually an interesting thought mentioned here: is “visual consistency” a prerequisite to making a succesful essay?

    i have always thought so, and personally i have always tried hard to achieve that…

    BUT now that i see this essay, i’m thinking that i might be wrong… is it actually really necessary? really really?

    really really really?

    i mean, the visual inconsistency reflects the actual “real” inconsistency in venice beach, the rich, the poor, the day, the night, the love, the hate, the happiness, the desperation… everything at the same time… i mean, i can’t even imagine how one would be able capture this wide range of emotions/happenings in one “visual consistent” essay…

    on a personal level, when i was about 20 images in, i felt like i actually was there…

  18. “…the photographs feel like they could have been taken by several different photographers using several different cameras and processed in several different ways. this doesn’t make for a cohesive essay…”

    i will have to agree with you again and again… really , no sarcasm here…u nailed it once more!
    Yes…they are different cameras ( M8, d50, iPhone, d200..etc),
    All processed in “different ways”.. & different states OF MIND… from MELLOW to pure CRAZINESS…
    and YES … again, “cohesive”, is not the word…
    welcome to my world
    peace & hugs

  19. BEN…

    i went to your site and can certainly see why you might not relate much to Panos….you are more like Soth or Power….refined…thought out…British!!! and you have some truly magical work with a bit more spontaneity than either Soth or Power…in any case, i would love to communicate with you further about an essay here…

    while i obviously support the total freestyle approach of the renegade Greek turned Californian,sometime tow truck driver and homeless Panos, who knows no bounds, i also welcome the best of many genres including yours…you and your comments and your work are most welcomed…i will link to your site…

    cheers, david


    do your dreams????, i literally mean, the “dreams” u see when asleep ( not idealistic ones ),
    have any consistency??? i bet , NOT…
    then why “art” should have any? ( consistency )
    , unless that is the point asked. of course???

  21. Cathy,
    im with U 100%…
    yes, HARSH CRITIQUE , please…
    dont worry, seen lots of “blood” already…
    ok now, go ahead!!!

  22. CATHY…

    yes, yes..honesty is best..and maybe controversy even better….i am pleased we FINALLY got there!!

    you should go back back back in the archives of critique and read the incredible THRASHING Robert Frank got from virtually all of the “best photo minds of the times” when he did The Americans…

    frankly, if i were editing for print, i would take Panos down to the 15 suggested by Pete…but, for a 3.5 minute “experience” i think this pretty much gives a feeling of Panos’ world…it is Panos’ world that needs editing!!!!

    cheers, david

  23. I totally do not understand the notion of visual consistency. Each photographer (or writer, musician, artisan, cook, barber) creates in a way that is consistent to their vision, to their contact with and reconciliation with a project (photograph, book, song/album, meal, haircut)….I am soon about also to show an essay in which I used 5 different cameras as a means to convey different light, different moments, emotions, etc….I dont want to make a big issue out of this, as I agree that it is Panos’ work and Panos pleasure and job to have a dialogue with the others (and by the way, I 100% welcome, as I sure Panos and Anton did) this kind of discussion…to weed out the calcified, dead-weed of thought that exists all too commonly amid photography photography sites and blogs and magazines….but, it’s is so simple to tack up an essay with a consistency of “look” (camera, style, etc)…”style” is simply a language in the arsenal of photography and should be see for what it is….the bigger and more essential question for a viewer (my reaction after having watched Panos’ essay a number of times this afternoon) is: have the photographs (in total and individually) sat inside me as a way to convey a story of a place and people….for me, the story does, collectively as images and individually….if it doesn’t alight upon others as it does for me, so be it….i do think that the issues of edit are important and it will be great to hear from Panos about his reasons for the inclusion/exclusion of pics…

    part of the greatness of Burn was to be just this: dialogue: between photographer and reader. I welcome these thoughts…when i show my essay (longer than Panos’), it’ll be a great opportunity to speak about length/editing choices etc…but, i just want to share with you all another story that uses a variety of means to tell a story….I am not comparing Panos’ story to this, but I think it is important that viewers understand that what is IMPORTANT in a critique and an analysis is not for a viewer to impose their points of view or aesthetic upon an essay but to attempt to see and understand what the choices are that the photographer has made, as a way to more richly understand what’s at play and what’s at heart in the work itself…..i’ve always tried to remove my bobblack photographer hat when looking at pics and try to swallow them as Bob Black the dude that loves photography…

    ok, about “consistency” of style:


    running for the day


  24. The amount of pictures and the variety of different styles actually suits the project quite well. Maybe you should loose a couple of the shots. But it is quite a big and loose subject so why not have lots of varied pictures?

    It felt like you had showed me the place honestly and I could then go and make my own decision about it. Really tightly edited series of shots certainly seem to add power to very specific stories but are maybe not so good with actual places like Venice Beach. Those really tight edits on pictures of places always make me feel a bit short changed….

    Up until today Panos was a racing car and a photo agency to me. Now it is also someone who is often in Venice Beach…. someone who is not worried about getting into some trouble when he is there. Thanks.

  25. Waxy,
    thank you,

    ALL, please , as Cathy said:”
    … but it is GREAT to see comments here that are not all euphoric. What is there to learn when everyone is saying only congratulations? :))…”

    …bring it on,
    teach me, school me, i need to learn,
    feedback please…
    and i promise, i will do the same…

  26. see my comment above about consistency ;)))))….for me, i think one of the problems that abounds in the photo world is not the “we love everything so much” or the “we hate everything so much” but the fact that still, photographers still all too often look at others’ work as if it were their own, in stead of seeing the work for what it is, face value: the individual expression of a particular place….

    what i trust will be such a great great to Burn over the long hall is that it shall embrace this peculiarity…this breadth of speech of photographs…..

    for me, the wisest folk are not the ones who are able to articulate the best what their point of view is but rather the one who is the most open to that view that is remarkably different from their own :)))

    therein lay the beauty of Burn to come :))


  27. Well Panos, you already know my favorites … they begin with 40, that one hit me hard when I first saw it some months back. To me, that’s it, the fulcrum, there’s a lot of you in there too … Man, just keep going, keep following Jim down the Venice rabbit hole …. Just to be onto this is a big success but it’s not done. You’re not finished Panos.

  28. MAT…

    exactly where are YOU coming from??? you refer to Ben who has shown his hand and a good one…you have not….pretty hard to swallow anything from anyone who is hiding….come on out, show us!!! it won’t hurt….

  29. I don’t know of any recognized photographic works which don’t have some kind of consistency. Though, that doesn’t make “consistency” a strict rule to follow, but it might give you a slight hint.

    If you made the choise of non-consistency a priori to the shooting – as a way to convey you Venice impressions – well it’s your choice as the artist. But, if qualified people tells you that it doesn’t really work for them, then maybe you should reevaluate your choise.

    On the other hand, if the non-consistency is just a product of hap-hazard shooting with whatever equipment available (and without any thought through visual expression), then you should definately revise your way of working on this project.

    Did you make a conscious choise about this apparent lack of coherence? – or did it just happen to turn out this way?

  30. Panos

    I will fallow after Ben.
    You know I am your big fan, and I think this is very good series of your photos, but I have to confess I saw deeper and more united stuff in you earlier pulished works.
    What key have you used during editing? Only story, or only esthetic?
    or maybe something more personal?
    what about your book?
    how many pictures you have?

  31. Joni,
    you also nailed it…
    you said “empty”…
    “empty, just like me…”
    thank u

  32. it’s a start.. and there are good photos in there, although for me many miss the mark.
    in so far as i think about the moment and wonder if some are just outside of that discipline.. a discipline i enjoy very much. there is a clear indication that you’re photoing constantly which is really promising, and i think that if the project were drawn out longer there would be obvious photos to replace others.. the learning-curve viewable on the mac site you have for the work is clearly steep and since late summer good photos have turned up with greater frequency..

    so it comes down to what you want panos..? i remember reading a number of grumpy posts about what is shite and what you don’t like.. i reckon you have a good idea of what you do like and that could come through.
    for me your strongest work remains your most recent.. of dark kids and interpersonal relationships.. of genuine contrived moments and with a tighter command of yer light-box.
    i guess in future shows this work will be more evident – i hope so – since it was those photos i was mostly looking out for here.. although i guess they do not fit the venice remit so well..


  33. “it is Panos’ world that needs editing!!!!”….

    Yeah maybe, but then Panos would cease to be Panos! Edit the photos and leave Panos and his world to run their course.

  34. Yeah. I agree with many that there are way too many fillers in this essay. 60 pictures is a ton for a still slideshow…maybe if you also recorded audio and put together a short multimedia piece you could get away with posting so many pictures, but for me I just see a few gems in between a bunch of snapshots( well not snapshots, just a bunch of loose and incoherent pictures). Tighter edits are always hard as it makes one really have to sit down and think about how they want their project to be seen, understood. I would continue with this project and I like the idea of having about 15-20 Really nice gems and use that as Chapter 1. Other than that, sifting through 60 pictures is a bit much for many, I got lost at 30 and turned away… Especially when you are diluting the experience of your really nice work with so many shots that just miss the mark. Nice job though and I would love to see a more concise edit.



  35. of genuine UNcontrived moments.. that’s what i meant to write.
    what i mean to say is that for me it becomes dull seeing people who obviously know they are being photoed, doing the old ‘look at me’ poses..
    it could be a comment on the people you are photoing, perhaps they like to show of.. loud.. drunk.. i’ve seen that many times in clubs..
    for me the work which stands the test of time tends to be more caught moments, or if the moments are contrived they are more choreographed and less average.

    in any case.. if random is what you are and what you wanted to achieve then that is what you have – so well done..

  36. thanks david.

    i dunno – i’m not so narrow minded that i’ll just cast aside a certain type of photography or photographer – my tastes in photography are diverse; on monday i might be looking at Paolo Roversi and Peter Lindbergh; on tuesday I’ll be getting my fix of Patrick Zachman and Agata; I’ll follow that up on wednesday with a bit of Lars Tunbjork and Tim Davis; thursday I’ll get all nostalgic and research Chris Killips “Inflagrante” and maybe pair that up with “Kosmos” by Adam Bartos; then by friday maybe I’ll be looking at early Friedlander, followed by Epstein’s Family Business, Jodi Bieber’s “Of Dogs and Wolves”, Taryn Simon’s “An American Index…’, Balazs Gardi’s “The Valley”, a wee bit of David Lachappelle and a good hour looking for hotties on the Cobra Snake and Last Nights Party..

    all valid in this day and age…

    okay, so i dropped lots of names and showed that i have an eclectic taste. i probably come across like a bit of a know it all – but i think there is a point to this.

    All those photographers. so different. i like all of them (okay, maybe not the cobrasnake!) – but think about the work that resonates – from any of the aforementioned guys and girls – and even if it doesn’t have a “visual consistency” per se, it has either:

    – a sequence – an order that stimulates and surprises, and that leads the viewer on a journey in some way.


    – a strong, well articulated and presented concept.

    i think with Panos’ essay, there are a few strings that could be picked up on, strengthened, and bound together to make a much stronger whole. thats all.

  37. David,
    you are totally right… i need to somehow “reinvent” my self…!!!??
    how??? i have no idea…:-(

    “…interpersonal relationships..”
    thats what it is!!!
    thanks D.B

  38. the “book” is a different approach… also!
    nothing to do with the slideshow!
    text, all over, different sequence…
    or maybe the same…
    everything evolves…

  39. also I had my comp muted and didnt know there was music…HA. but yea.. do some creative edits and move the pictures with the music so its not just 2 sec per image…you know…like some sweet magnum in motion stuff. Get some final cut pro express or something and just have fun and jam out…editing pictures to music is probably one of the best things one can do…its just soo much fun.

  40. One more thought:

    It’s wonderful to tell the story of people without actually using people in every frame. The lead-off image (i.e., pistol shot) is an example of this, but the few others that I remember are weak… such as the dinner plate. And I might only remember the gun because it was a gun. Maybe there are more but if there are they are unmemorable. Something to consider to round out an essay…

  41. Mr. Harvey

    i sense a bit of hostility and an implied insult in your reply. i mean your comment section has a space for website.. so i put mine. the fact that there is nothing for you to view at this time is kind of incidental and i fail to see how that cancels my completely valid and substantiated opinion out. but i understand where you’re coming from with the tribe mentality and protecting ‘yours’ from outsiders.. i mean i think that’s a pretty natural reaction. but the fact is that i do have an opinion and i have voiced it here whether or not you agree with it is kind of irrelevant to me. i’ve had extensive discussions with several photographers regarding this particular essay and the consensus opinion is that this is really shoddily done, which really shocked me as a photographer. i had, perhaps naively, come to expect great things from Burn.

    but anyway if you’d like a look at some unedited work of mine then please feel free to drop me an email and i’ll give you unfettered access.

  42. James Hudson,
    thank U.. i hope , i believe,
    i have a new, “real” , friend, “amigo”, here,
    in this “bloody”, “burning” blog… “BURN”…
    u feel me???
    coz, i definitely “feel” & welcome U , here…
    step in, come closer to the “BURNing fire”…
    thanks again
    peace & hugs

  43. Matt…!!!!
    time inconsistency… perfect!!!!!
    why every slide should be equally 2 second exposed…
    thank u matt… you are brilliant….
    hmmm… i should redo this… regarding the “weakness” or “strength” of each tif”…
    peace & hugs!

  44. Great discussion around here and very instructive. I do agree with most of you. The essay is long and needs a tough edit (that’s very familiar to me, I always have the same problem….), but have good pieces in it. I do have my three favourite shots that really made me use the ‘pause button’ for a while, and for the rest of the pictures I just followed the slideshow feeling the mood of Pano’s world at Venice Beach. I think he managed well to show us the atmosphere at this place. You can feel it, and you can also “feel” Panos behind the frames. Definitely that’s a good start. But I would cut down some of the pictures to reduce the amount to the best shots. It will be more impressive!
    Don’t stop, Panos!!

  45. well, too many photos featured
    ,maybe good for a book but not for a slideshow my good friend!
    you obviously love your photos too much, you are so attached to them, but you are not smart,
    in fact you are an idiot , you do not know how to edit !
    Why don’t you ask some help from David himself or even god!
    that was a long, long edit.
    This is a slideshow, not a book.
    B and W , mixed with color, what an amateur.
    You will never find a publisher with your inconsistencies.
    You are so wasting your and also our valuable time.

  46. ok.. i just watched the essay and it’s pretty deep with commentary here..

    i started reading, and refreshing the page and reading…, but rather than wait to see if i’m repeating someone else i’ll just begin typing…

    sorry in advance if i’m just banging on to what everyone else has said…

    Panos, everything you’ve written since i’ve walked through this door of Burn/Road Trip i have read, no actually at first Panos, i read and cringed in discomfort and then i warmed to it and now i wouldn’t want you any other way. i truly mean that and someday i’ll prove that to you Panos

    so i’m saying this to you as someone that has really warmed to you Panos….

    Panos Skoulidas you need to decide if you want to write music… or if you just want to jam,… i mean this with regards to your photography Panos,…. i mean…. do you want to use your images to make an entire coherent song or just some yummy rifts?

    there’s enough images in this essay to be certain that at times you were being deliberate and making the photographs you wanted to make Panos.. and those images work, and sometimes they better than work… they work and they start to reveal your own photographic voice.

    with regards to voice, i hate when people cite a photographer’s influence on someone’s work when they should be telling you what about the photographer you mean, but Ben’s right with Webb, he’s talking about the times you‘ve exposed for the highlights which puts ‘some’ subject matter clipped in inky black,… not a bad thing if what‘s in inky black is interesting to look at (e.g. a profile of a person or other subject that can be identified easily from a profile), and Alex can reveal more with the anti-light of shadows than most can with golden hour light, so any comparison to him is a compliment.

    but forget about Webb Panos!, i also think you embody a better and more authentic approach to photography for the kind of person you are Panos, the kind of photography that says…

    nothing in my hands, nothing up my sleeves,… this is what i saw…. and if you don’t like it….. you can get the F*** Out….. And btw…. i didn’t like you first….

    This is a great approach for people like you Panos, people with very dynamic lifestyles that will collect gems purely by having a camera in their hand when they are out just being themselves,…. but it does lead me to the next point Panos…

    part of this authentic personal diary-style is having the honesty to know when one of those honest images doesn’t resemble a lyric to your song,…. you have to take it on the chin Panos when the image doesn’t provide the strength photographically for us that it did for you,…. for you being there to see it with your own eyes.

    And sorry Panos, if you think we as your audience of your message doesn’t matter, well…..if that’s the case then don’t share your photographic story with us, keep your story on your refrigerator for your own enjoyment, but if you want us to feel the story, you have to embrace this dark-side of photography and not see it as a sell-out.

    you know, i don’t know if Winogrand ever said this, but he made me think it if he didn‘t say it..

    something like….it’s not about the things you photograph, it’s what those things looks like in a photograph,…. basically…. boring things can looking exciting in a photo…. and well… sorry Panos, but some of your images prove the opposite to be true, but this is true for all of us.

    also, keep in mind Panos, those beautiful images did not just fall out of Nan Goldin’s camera…. even though it seems that way, she chose to let the ones that resembled her voice to her song to be revealed and the other images, even if great, but great for someone else’s song, never left the edit.

    it’s not all bad Panos, there’s loads of uncut gems in this essay and it might even be possible to tease out three essays that have energy that exceeds this whole essay, but until you decide how you want to take this macro level feedback, there’s no point in going micro.

    and sorry to everyone else, i’m going to be the Monster here.

    YES…. you can totally throw out every thing we’ve learned from the past about the coherence of the visual language, you can say “hey that’s not a mistake, that’s art….” or you can say…. “Art is subjective….” and the best of all is that “Art is all about breaking all the rules…“

    YES……but make sure you finish this sentence with…

    … “but….if you decide to do any or all of these things… you better be effing good!”….

    and if you want to break all the rules with a 60+ image edit…..i mean really effing good!!” …..,

    no offence Panos, but few people are that good, and your work is good, but it would be better with some coherence and a tighter edit and other things the are helped by some of those things people call rules.

    If your keen Panos, please fire off an e-mail to me and lets set a time to have a chat, i’ll give you a ring and give you an even less candy-coated opinion! ;-)

    Kind Regards,


  47. sorry for calling you an “idiot”, but your work is so strong,
    Why Magnum or DAH himself, can not help with a more decent edit?
    This is a Magnum Magazine after all? No ?

  48. “…blogfan”,
    listen, this is BURN…
    this is not actually “Magnum”,
    it IS… it ir really “Magnum” because it is “DAH”…
    and “DAH” ( David Alan Harvey ) IS ” MAGNUM “…
    this is MY ESSAY….
    and i edit “my way”, not necessarily the “perfect” or the “magnum” way…
    see the difference…
    we are trying hard…
    we wanna be “magnum”…
    or better,
    We are “Magnum” wannabees… but who cares… We are not there YET…

  49. PANOS,
    I certainly watched the whole essay and never did I get bored.. I never get bored with your work.. Sure I see so much beautiful work every day, but I really think it’s the imperfections that make your work special. However I got confused and the (almost to me at least) crap images killed some of the truly great images. But more and more I think that confusion, imperfections and irritation is what your work is all about. I wouldn’t change too much of your work and edits just because some people may think so. If any of us want to get anywhere in photography, we have to be unique and you Panos, is unique!


  50. Panos ….
    just saw that your slideshow is up and causing stirrs (= many replies)!
    Wish I could see it now, but I am packed and have to leave for two days. Looking forward VERY MUCH to see what I assume will be Panos-life as soon as I am back and wired.
    Good to see you as showing right after Anton.

    ANTON …
    whatever you did it worked – I do not have to introduce me to the system anymore whenever I leave a message. Thanks!
    The “Reply” is great stuff!
    You are doing a superb job here!

    did we not want to come up with some money for the website?!?!

  51. PANOS – I will call you again and again until you pick up the damn phone. There is a lot that has already been said and it will be tautology for me to repeat. The work is excellent and needs some trimming.


    You are crossing the fine line with your comments. That fine line makes this place a family. What do you mean by “…our valuable time” – dude/dudette – your time is yours to manage and there is a pause button on the slideshow and the power button on your computer. I am not gonna go into i-word – you apologized.
    Please – be a family not a stranger. Because …. “People are ugly when you are a stranger”.


  52. Good job Panos. I mean I have to agree that it could be a lot tighter and that the strong stuff is getting dragged down by the weak, but overall it’s signature Panos work. Not so much you picking a subject and making something “essay-ish” but rather a genuine look at you life.

    I think we need to welcome outside criticisms, right or wrong, agreed or disagreed. I would hate for Burn’s comments to turn into these incestuous, gushing, Flickr-like comments where each photographer can do no wrong.

    I guess that means I look forward to my essay getting torn up!

  53. I first read about Burn when it came up in the street photography discussion on Flickr that lives here:

    I commented over there and Joni Karanka suggested that it would be better placed over here somewhere, so I’ll cross-post it here as well. (I’m hesitant to just stick it in the comments for Panos’ fine set, but I don’t see a better place.) Here were my thoughts on the set and Burn as a whole:
    Nicely done.

    As for the Venice Beach set, I thought it was excellent. It took several things that I don’t like (Snoop, California, Los Angeles weirdos) and threw them together in a way that I was completely open to. Made me look at them, made me consider them. If you do that, you’re doing it right. I did not notice a bad mix of color and B&W and won’t go back to seek it out.

    Yes, it was looser than the maybe three photos that would make it into a similar story by the New York Times, but I think that’s not only the point, it’s what we’d all be left wanting if all we had gotten was the “three photos” that were the most cohesive. I looked at it as though it was a set by an a Flickr friend and in that light, it was fantastic. I’d be happy if that was my own work—very happy.

    If you’re the kind of person who’d rather spend a day with a box of someone’s contact sheets than a framed print of their most famous photo, you know what I’m talking about: process. I like seeing more, seeing things that are a little closer to the process and less like a gallery wall, more of a dialogue and less of a monologue. Things that give me a clue as to how good photographers work. They have that chance with Burn and I hope they do it well. The world has far too many gallery walls…

    Actually, I think this is a brilliant introduction. (The thread on Flickr’s Hardcore Street Photography group.) Really. Take a new magazine and stick it in front of a group of 20,000 people, five or ten of whom will whack it outright, for having had the audacity to:
    1) Exist.
    2) Be connected with Magnum and DAH.
    3) Not have consulted with them personally first before launching.

    Congratulations, Burn, you endured the first salvo and survived relatively unscathed. We’ll all be watching what you do next. Lots of us have probably taken a quick mental inventory of our recent projects to see if there’s anything we should be submitting. (Except those in New York who are too busy finding the Kibbutz on Google maps and mapping out all of the bars in a five-block radius, where they will spend all of their free time hereafter, nonchalantly sipping a beer with their portfolio and Leica casually arranged on the table.)

    After this, I hope you realize that you live in the age of Flickr; that we demand not only (relative) immediacy, flow and two-way dialogue, but also a bit of true excellence, if we’re going to stay excited about you. Burn says it’s “an evolving journal for emerging photographers.” I hope you know that that applies not only to its production, but to its audience as well. We’re a participatory bunch: Where many magazines might think in terms of “us and them,” we know that there’s only “us” and will vociferously ignore those that don’t understand that.

    Oh, do something in print as well. Not all of our mothers and grandmothers are online. If we’re going to submit stuff, we’d like to do so knowing it might be one day printed out quite richly on nice paper.

    what can i say…
    U R the MAN!…
    THANK YOU…..
    just checking on your blog…
    nice work

  55. Again, I feel there are just too many images that dilute the impact of the better ones, especially when they’re all so different in their approach (cams, b/w, colour etc)…it feels like I’ve tumbled into someone’s rambling train of thought and while I think that can work if it’s someone I already know and want to know more about, here, not knowing you at all, it all feels too haphazard, as though they’re taken by several people, so I lose my way and get distracted.
    I appreciate you’re trying to show us how you see it but to sit through that many pictures they’ve really got to be pretty fantastic and for me too many fell short and i gave up in the mid 30’s.
    You’ve got some good bones in there, you just need to lose the fat.

  56. hey lassal… i’m glad to be of service :)))

    and yes…. lots lots lots more in store for BURN… we’re burning the midnight oil getting things set up… and money is definitely one of them!


  57. “…it feels like I’ve tumbled into someone’s rambling train of thought…”

    You know, sometimes the possibilities are so endless you don’t know where to start…;-)

  58. Panos –

    congrats on the essay! I checked it out this morning and checked it out a couple more times a few minutes ago to “see” it again. There are some great photos in there, for sure! but I have come to the same conclusion, after viewing it a few times, that it feels all over the place…and perhaps “all over the place” is something that you could say was intended (and the reason I checked it multiple times) but it seems that the “great” photos are brought down by a few others that could be left out, and some great little sequences too, but I can’t help but get lost in their translation, at times, from one to another and certainly from start to finish at its current length.

    I was going to leave the comment at the above paragraph but then I thought back to how many times I’ve had critiques of my work that was vague or the classic “be hard on yourself”, “edit tight”, “kill your darlings”, “edit your work brutally”, and on and on that really did not mean much to me in the end because there was nothing that backed up the catch phrase. So I wanted to give you my 2cents in Burn spirit.

    I would take out 05, 15, 16, 28, and 51. I’m not saying that they are bad photos because what is a bad photo anyway? But they just don’t work for me at all in the context of the essay. 40-43 are super! this little sequence has its own story by itself. number 2 and 3 have a literal relation to each other but right or wrong they just don’t work together and I think its because of the complete opposition in “style” or “look”…I mean would I like it if the first one was processed all grained out, so as to relate to the second one better? maybe? does that make it wrong or right? I don’t know really but I do know that its not a comfortable combo for me and without opening a big can of worms from the “art” world about being “challenged” and bullshit like that I just know the way I feel and thats that, take it or leave it, because if I don’t get to the end of the essay because of the first two photos then what good is it to be challenged? 7, 8, 9, 11, 13, and 14 feel like they were shot on the same day (whether they were or not) and I like them but get confused by 10 and 13 in their mix as if they are not mixed enough should be edited down…as I write this and look at the photos more and more I start to get the feeling of a diary, like something that would be on Flickr or a blog, and am wondering if this is something that should be a “work in progress” – in fact after writing, looking through the images, and writing some more, I will just say that this is not finished, and THAT is why you need to edit…you know what I mean? its like you have some sequences of images that go together and could be good on their own perhaps with some others that didn’t make the edit? but the sequences don’t relate to each other very well in this context at this time…by continuing on the project however it will eventually show itself to you…this is how I see it anyhow – you either go in with a preconceived idea and make it work or let the project reveal itself to you…I think this project is still revealing itself to you.

    looking forward to seeing more photos and more on this project

    Chris H

  59. cathy scholl says:

    I was one of the first on DAH road trips…new to here:

    ( FLICKR )

    . I found this group

    ( FLICKR )

    because YOU posted on burn. See, ? both groups can support each other.

    BTW I have used since I was a kid. Actually I now try to do less of it so I don’t look like

    a ( dig this )

    DAH clone,

    but I did it long before I knew David :))

    I will repeat what I said here earlier… If the burn group is only a bunch of friends telling each other how great they are it would be a waste of the space. The contribution over at burn from THIS group is priceless. It’s certainly making it a lot more fun for me in any case. :)) I was getting pretty bored.

    Please keep posting links to burn here when there are new essays over there so the comments keep coming. Thanks.
    Posted 28 minutes ago. ( permalink )

  60. I don’t think Cathy is burying DAH on flickr. She’s just saying that the comments of some of the members of hcsp have broken some monotony over here. Might it be bryan´s, ben´s or jim´s comment, which are varied and far apart. Plus your whole “this is your cathy” thing makes it sound as if she had sworn an oath or sold her soul, that for sure she has not (hey, wait, I actually don’t know!).

  61. I’d say this is a tasteless troll. If you have an issue with Cathy email her, but going to others and say she’s done something in your opinion wrong because of writing that comment is quite lame. Even more if you’re somebody who’s not to be identified, which gives you even less right to do so!

  62. Not the most amazing essay by any means.
    But if you saw panos’ work here a long time back it is obvious that he has made serious progress under dah’s tutelage. Maybe that’s why David chose to show his friend’s work. A other year of shooting, panos, and you will have made exponentially longer strides. KEEP GOING!

  63. what would be great to see is a light table that everyone here could engage in on the fly…I have no idea if this is possible but I would love to see everyone’s above comments translated to the way THEY see this and future essays…I want to be able to grab the images (low res thumbs or similar) and pull/arrange them “my” way then see a DAH version, a Bob Black version, a Patricia version, an Anna version, etc, plus with the ability to do a quick-and-easy grayscale conversion on the fly to select images. it would be a great learning/sharing tool that could create some great discussion as well.

    just thinking.

    ~ chris h

  64. i can only comment from the perspective of my understanding of The Outlaw Panos Skoulidas as i’ve gotten to ‘know’ him over the last year or so (not a new ‘objective’ lens at all).. for me i loved getting tossed around in my seat a bit and seeing Panos’ Venice Beach.. it’s a fair and jostling representation of a place without rules or limits.. just like the outlaw photographer himself.

  65. thank U Anon,
    yes, i do come come from the “gutter”…
    the lowest of all low…
    peace & hugs

  66. You know, maybe I saw a few photos here and there that could be cut, but at the same time the thing that I like about this piece is its messy, chotic vibe. I think it meshes perfectly well with the crazy, messy spirit of Venice Beach that Panos is working on capturing. I’m not sure at what point a tighter edit makes the project too “clean” and loses the grungy, shot-from-the-hip feel of the piece.

    Aesthetically, the mix of photographic styles makes me think of an underground music mag, or a retrospective…normally mixing color and black-and-white is frowned upon, and not something I would do myself, but here I think it works. It seems to me that what makes this piece sing (and a key element to Panos’s style) is kind of a “fuck the rules” attitude…Obviously there are some nods to other influences here and there, but, for instance, the late-afternoon-light “Harvey” shots make for a really good contrast with the grungy night shots…you get that sense of Venice being this beachfront paradise with demons lurking in the shadows….

    What I get from this piece is a feeling of really being “in the mix”…Panos, I feel like I just spent a wild weekend in Venice Beach and am strung out on all kind of substances I can’t pronounce, and have just become best friends with a completely unsavory cast of characters…One thing that really comes across is that you dived headfirst into this project, and that no-holds-barred, no-boundaries spirit really shines through.

    Yes, more photos could be cut, but my that was not my initial impression upon viewing the piece…even that lame Corona shot, it kinda worked somehow…Somehow it makes makes me feel like it’s more about painting a complete picture of Venice beach rather than focusing on the individual photos themselves. So that, rather than in, say an Alex Webb photo, you sit there and go, how the hell did he get THAT one???, you just LOOK… I’m not so focused here on the “photography”…I’m more interested in the world that is being created. And to me, there is great merit in a piece that makes you forget about the “photography”…just as in a good movie, you forget about the “cinematography” and just let the thing wash over you…

    I really like the music by the way. Excellent choice; bridges the old Venice and the new Venice together perfectly; the burnt-out hallucinogenic remains of Jim Morrison and the steetwise, slightly menacing hip-hop vibe of contemporary street culure…

  67. Hey David,

    How can I find those discussions about Frank’s The Americans? Jenny got me a copy for christmas and I have already looked through it twice. I would be interested to hear what people had said about it.

    Can you send me a link?

  68. again, exactly Anon…
    DAH showed my work, just to emphasize the “serious progress a student can make under his supervision”,
    so he ( DAH ) can take the appropriate “credit”…
    you totally “nailed” it!

  69. yes CHRIS…
    i admit …
    there are some “late afternoon Harvey light shots”….
    and some “grungy” shots……
    i see that too, see that too… hopefully there are couple “panos” shots as well…!
    peace & hugs

  70. Panos, dude…

    There are TONS of “Panos” shots in there, what are you kidding me?!! They are ALL panos shots, that’s the beauty of it! It’s like my dad always says, a good artist borrows, a great artist STEALS!! I didn’t mean it in a negative way at all. What I meant was that the juxtaposition of all those influences really captures the schizophrenic nature of the subject…no, man, I really dig it. Seriously.

  71. You know what? I f#%@ing love this essay…

    I wish I could shoot like Jack Kerouac as well!

    Panos, I love its inconsistencies, I love its looseness, I love thne fact that this is the beginning of something big as well…

    I reckon everyone is missing the point, James Joyce got a caning for ‘The Dubliners’, Jackson Pollock for ‘Blue Poles’ and just about everyone hated Laurie Graham…

    Panos is exactly what we need for the future of photography, someone who doesn’t think to much about getting it ‘right’, but feels the content he is shooting like the words in a visceral piece of prose. I believe Panos’s Panotopia is right on the mark in terms of zeitgeist, shaking quite a number of us boring ‘old school’ farts out our carefully constructed overly beautiful images and just mixing the dirt and grit with the inconsistent and clashing styles of delivery.

    Wake up people- its the new media…

    This is a living ‘body of work’ not an epitaph on a grave saying- ‘I was famous for this…’

    Go Panos, don’t stop AND don’t change a thing…

    Happy New Year everyone, 2009 is gonna be BIG!

  72. again, CHRIS, smiling…
    yes i confess… i did “steal” DAH’s blacks…
    go for the mood… be loose… fuck detail…
    Harvey is my COMPASS…
    no doubt about it…

  73. Jim O’Connell, I was heartened by your comments. It’s been a little strange how quickly the tenor of this forum changed when BURN went public…although the original “Road Trips” blog was not without its share of conflict and drama, there was, for the most part, a spirit of respect and community among the participants.

    BURN has hardly been live more than a week, and already there have been quite a few nasty and disrespectful comments made, many from anonymous posters and newcomers.

    Now don’t get me wrong, I welcome the change that has come, in that there is a whole new set of voices coming in, offering fresh opinions and criticism. And now that the work is being shown on-site, there is much more discussion about the WORK and a lot less “chatter” than on the original blog. This is good. But, hopefully, as Jim has commented, we can “burn” through this initial round of gratuitously unkind language. I don’t frequent Flickr or other sites (just trying to stay current here is too much:)), but if this kind of snippy vibe is de rigeur, that saddens me.

    That being said, I find myself more interested in the conversation now that there is some hard criticism happening, and hope we can achieve a balance between the rah-rah-I-love-everybody’s-work-cheerleader thing and the your-photos-suck-and-you-are-an-idiot thing. I trust that we can, but I would like to make a plea for a general spirit of respect and decorum here.

  74. from FLICKR

    bennybedlam says:

    i dunno. it gave me a horrible flashback to when i had to edit the pool of the HCSP group.

    i stopped at around 30 images in. then went back about ten minutes later and flicked through the last 30 odd images really quick.

    i won’t be watching it again.

    i liked the music though.
    Posted 7 hours ago. ( permalink )

    Paul Russell99 says:

    First up, I was surprised there were a few black and white shots thrown in among all the colour. Does that ever work?
    Posted 6 hours ago. ( permalink )

    Dr Karanka says:

    I think all colour would work better, plus trimming quite a bit. I do appreciate some shots a lot (40 and 60), but most don’t make much of an impression.
    Posted 6 hours ago. ( permalink )

    Paul Russell99 says:

    By the way … is it obligatory … when you write the intro to the essays … that you have to use … loads of ellipses … just like DAH … ? Ha ha…
    Posted 6 hours ago. ( permalink )

    bennybedlam says:

    yeah… wtf… is…. all that about?
    Posted 6 hours ago. ( permalink )

    Paul Russell99 says:

    Maybe DAH … has the … trademark on them and … gets royalties … or something …
    Posted 6 hours ago. ( permalink )

    DAH? gets royalties ?

  75. Congrats, Panos… and boy did you set burn “afire” in the comments section… could be cut by 25% for sure, and i bet a lot of these images will be back-“burned” if you continue to work on this project, which i hope you will. for as you get deeper into the subject and possibly refine your approach i bet you will gift us with some incredible photographs… i’m looking forward to less DAH influence and more Panos… you have an eye and, jeez, how do you take out a camera in these scenarios???? seriously, how do you get on that bus ?? with that guy and his 2 or 3 girls? someone mentioned above that your work has improved — i myself remember something you posted once, an evening with snoop i think, that wasn’t really “there” (as the great DAH may have said) but you have made huge strides…
    must be fun to be at the epicenter of this discussion, all eyes on you, huh?

  76. sweet indeed. amazing work. quite a gap between this work and the essay on burn. but then again, how many of us could even get our toe into the door at magnum?

  77. Oh my… there are so many comments i agree and disagree with. Panos – congrats for showing your essay.

    i took a photo workshop with alex webb and one thing we did was “edit” his slides. we were broken up into small groups and given maybe 20 slides each from different projects and had to edit and sequence it. each person in that class saw things differently (obviously). THIS IS THE MOST DIFFICULT part of photography – editing. especially your own work. this takes time, patience, experience, mistakes, help, etc…

    Panos is still working through the process on this essay. i look forward to seeing where this goes…

    BURN is just so damn exciting and i am thrilled that we are able to share and discuss like this. THANK YOU David, Anton and all…

  78. You know, “flikrjustice”, honestly, I would much prefer if that chatter stays on flickr. If people want to make comments directly on this site, let them go ahead and do that. I don’t know about everybody else, but I really don’t see much of any merit in the kind of crap you keep posting here. Out of six comments, there was maybe one that had any kind of constructive criticism in it, and the rest was just kind of silly and snotty. It’s the kind of nasty shit that people say behind other people’s backs, and it’s annoying and really drags down the dialogue here. Thanks for trying, but there’s already enough to wade through here to have to deal with snide comments from people who are posting on a different forum….

    I guess it serves its purpose to know that there are people out there that like to waste their time being snitty, but I really don’t want to see the high-mindedness of this site get polluted with that kind of drivel. Personally…………………..

  79. mariano – emphasising the gap between the essay here and that of a magnum photographer wasn’t my intention when posting that link.

    my point is that Zachman’s essay (and correct me if i’m wrong if anyone knows better) is a collection of images that isn’t from a specific project, more plucked from several other series – but through very intelligent sequencing, good use of multimedia applications, and thoughtful transitions, the essay takes on a new life in its own right.

    – and perhaps crucially – the consistency in style and processing plays a big part in the success.

    if Panos was to narrow his focus (pardon the pun) and concentrate on a few key themes in his Venice work, then I could envisage a more arresting essay being produced.

  80. LeicaSkopjiaFanatic21

    Ben, Mariano, i agree,
    panos is just a silly dreamer, he dreams magnum ,
    but his photography simply sucks.
    There are two or three of his photos that i like but no more than five.
    That is it. And his best shots are from M8.Good shots, i like.
    A wealthy dude that can shoot with a Leica.
    His best 5 shots , believe me, are shot with his M8 Leica.
    It’s the camera, not him.

  81. To me its a pretty similiar INTENTION in Panos and Patrick Zachmann’s work… Patricks work is slicker for sure but I only saw about maybe max, 8 shots that were truly stand alone…Its a body of work and therefore can be treated quite differently I believe. I think a book presentation of all of the shots in Patricks multimedia piece would be definitely overwhelming and make the book appear as so much wall paper…

    The point I am trying to make is that Panos’s stuff is really suited for a multi-media format yet lots of people have commented that they would edit it in a way which I think is way more suited to traditional media, like print and exhibition purposes…

    Its interesting that Panos’s stuff is drawing the attention it is getting- is it not? I believe thats because its not ‘classic’ imagery- it is pushing a few envelopes and as Panos gets more solidly behind his concepts then it will really be powerful. What I think I detect is not the sophistication of Patrick Zachmann but Panos’s understanding of the zeitgeist. And if making more ‘arty’ and ‘palatable’ images, with more sophisticated music and production is required to impress people, well then thats just buying into the status quo of the ‘art’ market.

    Thats fine if you want to parade the wealth of the ‘power elite’ and own a ‘Magnum Photographer’ print, but what I love about Panos is the fact he is ‘real’. He does fly by the seat of his pants, he doesn’t dress things up- his images are just a really honest response to his environment at the time, he does feel the zeitgeist.

    I hope that Panos doesn’t get too slick or sophisticated with his work, but that he just gets more Panos…

  82. “His best 5 shots , believe me, are shot with his M8 Leica.
    It’s the camera, not him.”

    So the camera sort of jumps up in the air and gravitates towards a bar, makes friends with the locals and shoots their oddities? Yeah, makes lots of sense.

  83. I’ll second that (most of it anyhow : )…I really rather not read anyone speaking on someones behalf or read “updates” from another site…if they would like to join the discussion they are welcome

  84. lisa – i repeat, as far as I’m aware, Zachman’s work (and again please correct me someone if i’m wrong) is NOT from a single body of work. it’s images drawn from various separate series.

    in terms of the new media/presentation side of things – if Panos is going to put his images in a slideshow to music, i think it would be pretty dumb to not want to maximise the potential of the media at his disposal. if not then whats the point? why not just have a standard gallery? I don’t think having sophisticate music and production has anything at all to do with the “art market”. i think it’s just giving your photographs the best possible platform… why anyone wouldn’t want to do that is frankly beyond me…

    i think i’ve said all i can on this subject to be honest…

  85. Wow!! Any art that engages dialogue, good or bad, is successful in my opinion…I enjoyed your photo essay Panos, it felt like a visual diary.. Color and B/W are wonderful together.. Of course some stories lend themselves better to B/W or color, but why do people think the 2 can’t mix? It’s your story of Venice, at times a bit scattered, but I liked that about your essay.. Its raw, its real, and it’s in your face.. I liked it- would be interesting to put some video with your images… ** And again, any art that creates this much dialogue is refreshing to me.. Think of Serrano’s “Piss Christ’ ~ a photo of jesus in urine that created quite a stir.. Different issue, but lots of talk; the power of photography… ** Thanks for sharing… In light, wendy xox

  86. congratulations Mr LeicaSkopjiaFanatic21 on making the most ridiculous, appalling comment on this discussion so far. just when I thought it couldn’t get any worse. I salute you sir.

  87. MAT…

    no hostility intended at all…just being as honest as are you…you straight, me straight…if i were interested in “tribal credentials” i doubt i would have published Panos at all, now would i?? yes, yes critique is a bit more valid in my opinion if i know from whence it comes….i did not even say i disagreed with you did i??? i just thought you “hidden” therefore reducing your own cred… so i think you might be somewhat paranoid….i knew full well that Panos’ essay would probably cause exactly the ruckus it has caused…your comment reflects “traditional wisdom” of course, and i must say that the state of print publishing, the economy, and world affairs has “traditional wisdom” somewhere near the bottom of the proverbial barrel…

    i do think that in the public forum that we have here that is totally based on an educational imperative, that some of us might just be curious about the cred of who is speaking…you know us, so why wouldn’t we want to know you???

    i welcome your work of course…Panos is one type of person and photographer…i am sure you are another….

    Mat, there is something you should know…photography has quite literally saved Panos’ life…he is an ex-junkie, homeless, and lost his job as a tow truck driver….that alone is reason enough to make me want to show his work…he lived this work…literally….hey, the boy can edit later!!! and i will bet bet bet the long ball hit on Panos…it is now up to him of course to make it work for him or go off into oblivion like the subjects he has photographed…

    with almost a hundred comments in about three hours on a sunday afternoon, i would say the boy already has an audience!!!

    tomorrow, i will give you another artist….totally different ….stay tuned….and get your work in…i look forward to it and will give you all the time you want…

    cheers, david

  88. which photos do you like? lets get some examples! why don’t you like the others? if your going to criticize back it up at least.

    and yeah I always love it when someone says to me “Wow you must have a really nice camera” that is right I have a really nice camera and I had NOTHING to do with the photo

  89. DAVID

    I am wondering is there anyway that the comments section can be moderated to keep out the trolls?

    I hate the sort of shit that flickrjustice and the like continue to come up with on any of these blogs…I have only enough time to view a small section of what the internet has to offer and I really get annoyed about wasting my precious moments having to scroll past their facile, uninformed and generally none to useful comments.

    It seems Panos attracts a few more than most, is this because he has risen from the great proletariat to something more progressive I wonder?

    But for whatever reason, please is there any escape from the inanity of the trolls?

  90. “It seems Panos attracts a few more than most, is this because he has risen from the great proletariat to something more progressive I wonder?”

    just for the record, i knew absolutely nothing about Panos’ history upon viewing his photographs for the first time.

    ultimately, the life history of a photographer is irrelevant when i see their images for the first time. I think its important to remember that – in a way, the most valuable feedback that Panos can get from this discussion is from those that are seeing his work fresh. I honestly believe that.

    all i am interested in on a site like Burn is looking at good photography. I’ll put my neck on the line here and say that I hope that the standard of the essays on here improves.

  91. Hi Ben I know what you are saying (though I don’t see what relevance whether Patrick Zachmann’s work coming from a single story or isolated shots has) BUT I also think that everyone needs to see the potential of something as well… this site is dedicated to EMERGING PHOTOGRAPHERS remember…and as such a lot of the photographers are just getting a handle on the whole way forward with the multi-media…

    And perhaps this is something that you might have missed in my discussion of Panos’s essay…the delivery, or better still, the execution of the work can always improve with practice, no doubt about that (and the requirements to be accepted into Magnum are stringent and it takes a long, long time) but if you have nothing to say with the images you are shooting then well its all just fashionable wall paper after all and as meaningless as last weeks fish and chip wrapper…

  92. “…in a way, the most valuable feedback that Panos can get from this discussion is from those that are seeing his work fresh. I honestly believe that…”

    totally agree!

  93. “…anonomyzir
    December 28, 2008 at 9:01 pm
    if m8’s made great pictures, every dentist would be a great photographer…”

    couldn’t get any better expressed than the above quote…

  94. Hey Ben that wasn’t directed at you… you have made sound and valuable criticism about the work, I am not dissing you even if I don’t agree with all that you have written…

    The people that gives me the shits are the ones that don’t use their real names and don’t have anything to say…

    Your point about the life of the photographer, well how much relevance anyone’s personal life has in terms of their work is a mute point, I know I rather revel in hearing about some people and shy off from others. I think it all depends on what their subject matter is and how they approach it, I think that is part of Panos’s online presence, that he puts himself in boots and all…

    Anyway, regardless, Ben like I said this comment was certainly not directed at you…

  95. BTW Panos. I live up in Ventura about 40 min north of you. If you ever wanna go out shooting give me a call or email. I am in MN now but will be back in Cali the 11th. Lets see if we cant work something out. I love shooting in Venice/Santa Monica. EMAIL Matt {AT}MattMcLoone {DOT}com

  96. BEN…

    what might be an “improvement” for you ,might be a backslide for someone else…a new Italian artist does come tomorrow….

    yes, you are right about one thing…the history of the photographer is irrelevant to the work..EXCEPT, that much of the work that i will show early on is the result of an online mentoring program and/or workshops where the photographer’s personal life is very important to me…i ask all of my students to look in the mirror on the theory that is what all great artists have done..not all PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHERS, but all artists of any SIGNIFICANCE…so background and history is important for the MOTIVE of the photographer…i would expect surely that commercial photographers would recoil at Panos’ work…BURN will soon include many professional and iconic photographers, but will never be geared to “professionalism” per se….in looking at your site, i see two photographers…one with personal vision, one doing the best he can at being commercial…i hope the first wins out…

    cheers, david

  97. After reading all of the comments, I realize a lot of what I want to say has been said and responded too. This group could be cut down to 20 and still accomplish what Panos wants to do which appears to either shake things up or do nothing. That fact that people have responded like they have makes me think some sort of reaction was caused by these photos. I wanted to stop around 20, but stuck it out because I usually read all of Panos’ comments. I wanted this package to succeed, and it did on some level. I think I can tell what he is aiming for and see these images as a start.

    Those that shake things up like Frank, Winogrand, Pinkhassov or Bruno Boudjelal have a consistent style that they obviously came to over time. I think that if Panos pulled out his favorite 10 and looked at them all the time he could, and figure out what it is he wants to say, then I am guessing progress will come. Saying they are about nothing is a cop out to me.

    If you did not get the clearance to use the music take it down, or find something you can use for free. If you did get permission to use the music, say it. A lot of people complain about bad deals being offered to photographers or images being stolen, but using music without permission is the same thing.

    This Bruno Boudjelal video might be worth your time. http://www.agencevu.com/focus/medias.php?tab=femis&id_femis=15

    If authorship is what Harvey encourages, keep trying to find that voice. It will pay off in the end. What you have going for you is an ability to take visual risks, many of which I am not willing to, which should be applauded, but that does not mean every one of those risks will pan out.

    Winogrand would wait about six months before he edited what he shot so he could divorce himself from the emotional connection to his pictures. It is a lot easier to edit that way, it just takes more time.

    Just some thoughts.

  98. “what might be an “improvement” for you ,might be a backslide for someone else…”

    fair comment.

    i will watch with interest of course.

  99. That thread is an open one, of friends talking about photography, everyone’s welcome and it’s easily accessible. What could possibly be the point in copying excerpts?

  100. BEN…

    thanks…and i seriously want to run your work…you have one truly great thing going for you….a sense of magic and mystery in your best work..i want the man in fog as a print!!!

    cheers, david

  101. I am so happy LA is represented in this contest.
    I am new here but i love the “Sunblock, Botox & Detox”.
    I’m a fashion photographer, i live in Hollywood and i dig it.

  102. PANOS,

    What can I say man!!! I had promised a day without computer so I am just seeing the essay now and feel that I am very late to the party… There is no one else who knows better how to light up a fire!!!!

    I have now watched your essay several times. My first initial reaction was also also that you could have done a tighter edit. I recall the way I felt when I saw your work first edited at Look3. It was short, tight, already mixing various styles, B&W and color and I felt wow!!! It was working from beginning to end. In this essay this time, I had a mixed feeling initially as I thought that you now have some real killer shots that you may not have had at the time of Look3 (I told you like Tom before that that picture 40 is amazing as an example, but there is also 6, 13, 20. 29, 42, 60 and many others) but in a way, given these killer shots, some others not as strong in my view or “consistently” as strong should possibly be edited out. It clearly makes you wonder how strong this could be if all were of the same strength….

    Now, having said what I have just said, the essay is really growing on me. As I said at the beginning, I have seen it several times now and the more I see it, the more I end up liking it. Still would edit some photos out but this essay is so typically you…loose, full of energy, no respect for any rules, whether in life or for “conventional” photographic wisdom… in the end, you have produced an essay that no ther would have produced and really shares a pov on Venice, this world where you have so many influences and which is probably why you fit there so well… David talks a lot about authorship and there is no doubt that we see you in these photographs, the good, the bad, the imperfections and the whole package despite some weakness at times is what I personally like… So, all in all, this is probably a successful essay with some clear “fuck the rules” type of authorship that only Panos could have done!!!!!

    Beyond the actual essay, I had a great time reading through many of the comments from Joe to Chris or others. It is great to see BURN provide that home for such discussions which may be tough at times but so rich for us all as long as respectful. Thanks for exposing you mate!!!! It takes a lot of guts sometimes to get out there and show our work, especially when one does not want to follow “rules”.

    Keep the fire burning Panos and my only desire is that you carry on getting a few more of the killers shots so that at the end, these are the ones that pass the test of time….



  103. i don’t know why i’m here,
    i do love the DOORS, i was hoping for more Tony/Robby Krieger photos.
    seen none.

  104. Panos,

    I start reading the comments and I gave up.

    Meanwhile I’ve seen your photos ’til the end. I normally lurk around here and don’t give a shit about who you are and what’s you’re style, and how do you write here and if you have consistency or personal style. Normally I don’t have time to spend reading all the comments and make friends. I prefer to spend my time in real life photographing. I do like to see works of other people (that’s why I came here) who express temselves through photography.

    This said, looking at your essay I could feel you and the different moments you were in Venice Beach. I’ve never been in Venice Beach but you show me different realities of the place and people. Also in some photos I could sense the effort (or facility depending on your personality) you had ’til you were so so close, that I’m prety sure you also burn one down :) Hope you haven’t burn yourself, as sometimes these inner voyages can do to photographers.

    I don’t like the word artist neither. For me artists are in the circus and you pay to see them. The only thing I can tell you is that your photos talked to my guts and that I learn a lot about you and the way you see the world. Thanks for that!

  105. “…The only thing I can tell you is that your photos talked to my guts and that I learn a lot about you and the way you see the world. Thanks for that!…”

    SOFIA Q.
    how can i not love U for that????????????
    peace & hugs

  106. Panos, I have been a lurker and very occasional poster over on Road Trips for the past six months or so. I have watched your photography with mixed emotions for some time now, and must admit I have not always been a fan. I can say though that your passion for your subject is undeniable, I can also say that your vision is different and sets you apart from 99.9% of all photographers. I will agree it needs an edit, but I would be interested in how many images you culled it down from, I also know that I have seen some good dialogue about photography in the past few hours on this site, something that has been missing on the web for sometime. I feel this site is about Emerging Photographers, not necessarily Emerging Mainstream Photographers, hopefully a few editors out their will see this as well.
    Thanks for igniting Burn, ever thought about doing a story about China?

  107. “…I can also say that your vision is different and sets you apart from 99.9% of all photographers…”

    thank u
    thank u
    thank u
    peace & hugs

  108. @panos
    is all that police car shit for real or!?
    how long do you recommend , anyone to shoot for an essay?
    weeks, months, years?
    i really loved your style ( or lack of style !!! )
    buenos aires

  109. Alberto!!!!!!!!!????????????
    what do i know ???????????????????????
    i’m supposed to be the one criticized & judged here….
    im the one asking the QUESTIONS…
    remember that!

  110. Flickrjustice,
    You are one f’ed up dude! You must be a failed reporter.
    You are acting like you’re breaking the story of the decade here…some great scoop.
    Who gives a shit about a conversation about ELLIPSES?
    And this is a good opportunity for me to mention that you took MY comment…ABOUT ELLIPSES…dot dot dot out of context and posted it earlier on this blog, trying to make it look as though I were talking about photography and talking trash about this site.
    WHY??? Why would you be so mean spirited? WHAT IS THE POINT???
    All of these comments were made on the INTERNET. On FLICKR for christ sakes…No one was telling any secrets and no one cares about any of it. Oh wait, YOU must. I don’t get it.

  111. I have no time to read all the comments, but I see that there are many debates….

    Panos, I love your essay, you have very big images, and many that I did not know, I have the impression to have you to accompany all the length really to Venice Beach, you have a singular glance, I am totally fan of your universe ! you make your photography without being afraid of displeasing….

    The worst is to provoke the indifference and it is far from being your case!!

  112. @flickrjustice,

    Since you are obviously the type who gets off on upsetting people, I am not going to play along with you.

    It is really quite funny that you think my comment which was about ELLIPSES, you know …..THAT…dot dot dot… was some significant shocking gossip where I was “burying” everyone here, which you can use against me. You did try your best by posting it out of context but truth be told you are only making yourself look bad.
    Or was that the point? FYI, I wrote nothing there that I hadn’t already said here. Do you think flickr is a place to post secrets?

    IMHO, there is some good new energy coming into this site…but then there is you. Too bad.
    Thanks all who spoke up on my behalf.

  113. First of all…


    This is your cross, you remember your reaction for Sean’s essay? I hope you feel very self-confident, because you should. You made great job. I didn’t know you are living in car, I thought you are living with this girl you showed us last time, but forgive me I have (really) bad memory and my english skills made me not careful many times, your photos looks more powerful now. The context is very important.
    I mentioned about book just beacuse I am waiting for it.


    I had many thoughts about how people react for photography now. The internet make them more agressive because they have nothing to fear now. They could be anonimous and say anything.
    Of course they just express themselfs. I see many young amatour photographers who attact everything and everyone. And the most repeated word is “borring”, this is “borring” that is “borring” Why?
    Maybe they saw some pictures of salgado or james nachtwey and now everything what is not a picture of dying perosn is just boring?
    They made some stupid boring photos, like I do and 99% of photographers do, but they are still borred!
    50 yeare ago photographers showed they photos at exhibitions only. how many pictures they could show, 50-70?? Hmmmm…. This is editing… 50 pictures from many years of work! But most of flickr members or blogers publish even a 100 pictures every month almost!! And many times this photos are more interesting than photos at exhibition. It depends what we are looking for.
    I look at many pictures every day. I am nervous person, I always have to do something with my eyes, so I look at pictures, and I saw a millions of photos. So why I am not borred?? I still see a millions of terrific pictures made by pro or amatour photographers. Why I am not able to say to others amatour photographers that they did crap, like do it many of flickrs and many of bloggers?

    Photography is so fu..ing simple thing. You have a camera and you push the button. You can be artist who made a beautiful images and have borring life or you can be amatour with amazing life like from novel, but if you are not humanist you will never a real photographer and probably you will be borred arter one hundred pictures you have seen.

    I am not sure you will understood anything from my words… as usually. I apologize for this chaos and mess.

    If photography captures life how it could be borring or not interesting?

  114. I think I arrived late at this party….

    THIS to me is what BURN is good at!

    Open, transparent, no mysteries, a dialog amongst equals who are most willing to jam a crowbar into your skull and open your mind just a fraction to let some new ideas in. I’m glad someone is out there pressing and questioning the ideas of how you put together an essay, how you compose, how you expose.

    In a BOOK you look and judge for yourself and mainly keep that opinion within and don’t subject it to debate. Here you have your opinion, you scroll down and see more, some like yours, some not. If you want you can dive right in. You get to see what other people see, just a little.

    For me, its too long just now… Snoop ran out before the end! There is some gold here Panos. Way to be “pro-active” or just “Panos” on the comments.

  115. many …Very intuitive and strong images
    When i see your essay my heart is beating more fast…:)))
    You are the king of Venice beach, Panos…I think.

    Please don’t make fun of me…poor enlish…hahaha(just kidding)
    Thank you so much, Panos.
    Kyunghee Lee

  116. Ben, the one thing I have learned in life is that no matter how bad you think things are now, they can always get worse, a lot worse. ;-)

  117. “…Thanks for igniting Burn, ever thought about doing a story about China?…”

    i would so love to get an assignment about/around china…
    that would exorcise lots of demons in my head…

  118. I know my dentist is a great photographer. She took pictures of my mouth and the prints are going to cost me $5K, which I will be paying off monthly until 2011.

  119. My dear friend Panos,

    Great essay. Awesome! The flavor of the essay is magnificent. Strong. Love the compositions and colors.Colors are extreme, and I mean that with the best of intentions.

    I remember a friend once telling me: You can buy the most expensive beautiful acoustic guitar. You’ll make beautiful music that sounds perfect. That music will do absolutely nothing for me. I want to listen to the grunge, the overdriven, the extreme and distorted guitar. It’s refreshing to see someone willing to take chances and have their own unique style.

    There are more stories that need to be written down with accompanying text and I can’t wait to see the book. There are stories in there that we’ve discussed. One about Steven comes to mind and I’d love to see that where I see his face.

    I’’ve seen the growth, commitment, blood sweat and tears put into this. This essay breathes fire into burn. The flame is rising! Good job μαλάκα μου!

    – Ryan Karim Sharif

  120. …yes totally,
    this “venice” has lots of legs…
    many sub stories included in the main story…

  121. I dont know, Panos, any dentist who can take pictures of my mouth and get me to shell out that kind of money for the prints is a great photographer in my book. Of course, the root canal helped, too.

    U really make me feel good by reading your comment…
    thank U…
    like U said: we cant please everybody…!

  123. Actually, I think this is a brilliant introduction. (The thread on Flickr’s Hardcore Street Photography group.) Really. Take a new magazine and stick it in front of a group of 20,000 people, five or ten of whom will whack it outright, for having had the audacity to:
    1) Exist.
    2) Be connected with Magnum and DAH.
    3) Not have consulted with them personally first before launching.

    hey JIM, i had no clue about the “Hardcore Street Photography group)!!!!???
    thank u for the link… i will definitely check it out…

  124. Panos,

    Great to see that your work has caused such a stir!

    I was about to write that perhaps there are a little too many photographs, but I watched the slideshow one more time and changed my mind. It’s the point of this essay to capture the chaos and craziness of Venice Beach, and you’ve nailed it!

    I can’t think of any other photographer out there who would do the subject better justice than your whirlwind of in-your-face images does.

    Venice is certainly too mad and hardcore for my rural British sensibilities, and that’s why I photograph farmers and you photograph the people of the Beach. I wouldn’t dare set foot in that place!

    Bob was right when he said that too many photographers can only appreciate their own style of work, so just ignore the naysayers and be proud of yourself; because you should be.

    Perhaps you should remove 47 and 51 though, but that’s just MY opinion.

    Keep working there!



  125. Everett, thank U…
    how do i get on that bus/RV ???
    how do i get out of that Jim Morrison’s RV u mean!!!
    thats the hard part!

  126. Tom L.,
    thank u for the Bruno video…
    and i totally agree with having clearance for at least
    using music with the intention to sell someone’s art…
    but i also think that most times music adds nothing to photography…
    actually it could makes things harder to watch ( speaking from the audience point of u )…
    for my taste… music could backfire… the wrong tune in a slideshow can totally
    “tune me out”… even frustrate me…
    thank u again for the feedback

  127. Venice is certainly too mad and hardcore for my rural British sensibilities, and that’s why I photograph farmers and you photograph the people of the Beach. I wouldn’t dare set foot in that place!…

    you got that right…ask DAH last time he stayed with me in the Cadillac Hotel…
    shit happen every single night… and is quite often that the wrong ones getting arrested…
    in the end…
    mucho grande confusion…
    peace & hugs

  128. If I wanted to read comments from flikr groups, I’d read flikr groups. Those posts are simply silly.

    back to the subject at hand:

    Panos, keep at it. You know what you’re after and are traveling that road, your own way, showing your own insights.

    And look at all the commotion your essay has caused. I think I will begin calling you “Rider on the Storm” ;)


  129. HI LISA…

    i am trying to figure out what to do…i hate to censor….yet, i know what you mean…we may come up with a first time registration that would eliminate some folks…once registered , the writer would be free…Magnum holds comments until they are read by the editor..conflicting opinion always welcomed, trashy talk unproductive….since i never really had this problem with my blog, i just was not prepared for it here…reading comments before they are published is a full time job…somebody has to be on the case all the time…that cannot be me, and i do not want to retroactively delete…anyway, we are trying to think of a way to keep the doors open to this pub without having a “bouncer”….

    cheers, david

  130. the “power” of this blog…
    i just had a great 3 way calling conference with
    “JOE” somewhere in england , me in Echo park and
    Ludmilla ( photographer )somewhere in LA…
    amazing, we exchanged opinions & info that would take hours of blogging…
    if anyone needs to reach me ASAP for any reason,or question, or even offer me a job that would be awesome…;-))))))))))))))))
    please call 310 4259298
    or email me innerspacecowpanos@mac.com

    … tonight i have a meeting with HAIK…
    we are gonna try to discuss the latest, drink and maybe post something…
    this blog is not virtual anymore…
    it brings actual human beings together…
    well done DAH..
    ( i wouldnt worry to much about the trolls or robots though… maybe denial…but they will go away…
    lets not please hire a “BOUNCER” yet… dear bro… not enough money for this position..

  131. I wrote a massive screed about uniformity within series, the legacy of the Dusseldorf school, and how if the work is strong enough you should be able to throw whatever format/process/tone into it and have it stand up, but I stupidly closed the tab and lost it all…

    As for Panos’ work, a number of things jarred a little with this series. The section from 39 onwards is clearly from one night, and presenting those images sequentially really changes the focus from being about Venice Beach to being about *that night* (the single portrait of the girl in the sunlight would say more alone than the whole 5 or 6 images together). Also, there is one shot with a MASSIVE DIRTY VIGNETTE that looks really incongruous and reeks slightly of over-enthusiastic photoshopping. If I’m wrong, I apologise…

    People have said it before, but I reckon there’s a really interesting, really tight photo essay within these sixty-odd pictures. I’d give it a BRUTAL edit and cut about 50-75 percent of the images. To the people who have said this essay shows some kind of new/exciting/unique style of photography and that all the rules (I use the word lightly) of editing have to be thrown out the window in our post-digital age, I say, don’t be silly.

  132. To the people who have said this essay shows some kind of new/exciting/unique style of photography and that all the rules (I use the word lightly) of editing have to be thrown out the window in our post-digital age, I say, don’t be silly.

    thank U for the feedback…
    i didnt even notice that people praised the venice essay as something new or unique…
    i need to thank them, if its not too late…

    Anyways, ALL,
    new essay is up… but when U done,
    please do not forget to revisit Venice once again…this time the corona’s on

  133. About Panos’ essay I have a couple of observations to make about the form of his work.

    When you present your work you have to take into consideration various factors you use to ‘say something’, you have to consider every frame and every element inside it. On this particular essay I noticed that the audio creates an ‘ambiance’, it is being used as a mere decoration. We have to understand that audio is so much more than that, it has its own meaning and it can contribute to the theme or subject in your essay creating a particular esthetic instead of being just the decoration.

    About the photos, I think they are showing us more about the author’s personality than the topic in question. The form in your essay is really ‘loud’, probably louder than the theme itself. It has a lot of different voices, so many in fact, that you cannot really identify the message: I feel like I’m in the middle of Venice Beach listening to Snoop Dog, Morrison and two photographers speak in circles without any regards to weather or not I can understand them.

    The way the essay is presented makes me feel like I’m looking at a photo gallery of the author’s multiple personalities on various situations and moments instead of looking at an essay about a specific topic. When you decide to publish something, you have to consider what we want to say as much as the spectator itself. If the language and reading of your material is too complex, then the essay becomes an essay on the author’s style, leaving behind the subject and spectator. It’s like a solitary monologue: talking about yourself to yourself.

    Definitely there are some interesting photographs that depict the culture, but after you look at all the images it looks like an essay made by different photographers, with different voices. It’s probably a valid excuse when people say that this is because of the artist’s diverse personality, but keep in mind: Is the essay about the author? Is it about Venice Beach? What exactly are we talking about here? Are we the authors more important than the subject we photograph?


  134. ADRIAN,
    thank u for your input & feedback…
    Hunter Thompson is my hero!… GONZO…!
    in my case i will not lie…
    i dont photograph to save the world…
    im not here to lecture…
    nobody “needs” my eye or my opinion…
    people need food & a bed to sleep ( trust me, i’m officially homeless…:-( myself )
    food is more important that photography… photography for me at least is luxury…
    again as DAH mentioned before,…just an ex-junkie that tries to save his life…
    nothing more than that… photography saved my life in numerous occasions …
    ( too melodramatic , feel free to laugh but its true… in my case )…
    A crazy tormented person with no style… really , whats u see is what u get…
    sooooooo back to GONZO theory… :
    ( … for me, at least, in my world its not just more but its ALL ABOUT THE AUTHOR…)
    honestly… i’m blind, i cant see further than that…
    i can only document my passage through this crazy world… not a savior…
    i can barely keep it together, if u know what i mean…
    peace & hugs

  135. and yes… i can polish my work… yes i can throw away the b&w photos…
    yes i can throw away the cellphone photos, yes i can throw away the “CORONA BEER” pic,
    or the one with “chicken wings” plate photo…
    but no… food and a corona is very IMPORTANT for me….
    trying to stay alive thats all… not being sarcastic here… honestly

  136. Hey Panos,
    Adrian raised a major issue here: “Is the essay about the author? Is it about Venice Beach? What exactly are we talking about here? Are we the authors more important than the subject we photograph?”
    Are you just defending yourself because you feel that you “failed” showing us Venice Beach the “right” way? or was it really YOU , you were trying to capture? What makes you think i(we) care about your lifestyle? Does looking at your mirror makes you feel more of an artist?
    i really loved many of your photos and i really disliked some of them but i was not able to tell what was the “message”! And now you are bragging that the message was “YOU”? No wonder the “Beer photograph”
    is in your edit!

  137. Hey Panos,

    A bit late to the thread here but finally got to see your essay (my ‘puter at home wasn’t doing it for some reason). Congrats! At first I wasn’t sure about the mix of styles but in then end it’s one of my favorite things about it.

    Okay a couple of criticisms: it needs to be somewhat tighter (not shorter per se, just tighter). Some of the weaker images (the more basic party pics imo like the girl looking into the camera in front of the bar) drag down the stronger (and just aren’t freaky out there enough). I like the length – it just that I want to be surprised at every turn. Something to think about it.

    A few of the pics need some more post processing (like the guy with the cops – where’s the blacks?).

    Beyond that I like that it’s all kind of an enigma. Too much of what we see these days has to be ABOUT something and fuck if we can all save the world or stroke the goddamn whales with our photography. Sometimes it should be enough to just live and feel and that’s what you’re doing.

    And my fave – the brother’s silhouette on the wall. Dope. And the inside the camper pics. Nice intimacy. Now go out and shoot some more!

  138. Anthony hi,
    no worries, no offense….
    i will say it once again…. think “GONZO”…
    and yes the message was “me”….
    and yes: “No wonder the “Beer photograph” is included in my edit…
    in fact i’m ready to have a Bass beer ( sorry not corona today )…
    ps: HAIK, sorry im gonna start without U…

    …and i was just wondering where the hell you’ve been, master…

    go out now and buy “CYPHER”…Charle’s latest BOOK from Powerhouse…
    Charles is not only a friend but also a fucking ICONIC photographer, that
    payed his dues… for those who dont know Charles… please google him &
    order “CYPHER” NOW….

  140. “John Cohen’s argument is that the picture exists outside of the photographer’s intentions, or even his desires….Up against these eyeless pictures, those of Evans, Frank, Levitt, and Bourke-White can seem almost propagandistic. That is, they make arguments; you are aware that the photographer wants to tell you something, to convince you of something, to accept a certain point of view. Here there is no point of view. There is something else; I don’t know what to call it, so I won’t try.”

    -Greil Marcus speaking on Cohen’s work …

  141. Yes, this piece is something out of the ordinary! Do I like it? Yes! Why? Because I always have great respect for people who try something new, who dare to leave the beaten path, who take risks, who provoke.
    I love GONZO!
    Panos, you don’t live by the book. You follow your heart and your instinct and this is something strong and true.
    Your images are certainly a wild mix. Something I haven’t seen before and I would hardly dare to mix – bw with film and digital. It is unusal, it is different, but it is good.
    I am glad you put all these 60 or more images in. To me it was great to watch and listen.
    It reminded me of one Sunday morning 17 years ago when I had a stopover in L.A. on my way from Germany to Australia. It was my first time to be in the U.S. A dream came true somehow. I had an entire day and night to spend at the LAX airport. I decided to take a bus to Venice beach and see the Pacific Ocean. And when I got off the bus at Venice and walked down to the beach the first thing I saw were some homeless people. This really irritated me. My image of America at that time was influenced by soaps like Denver Clan and films like Police Academy and Baywatch. People sleeping on the beach, wraped in some plastic bags just didn’t fit into the land where dreams can become true. America was also a land where many dreams fell apart. I guess I felt a bit strange. And your images provoked exactly this feeling again that I had on that day 15 years ago. Panos, thank you very much for sharing your images.
    Oh, I completly forgot: yes, I am one of these lurkers who lurk all the time and never leave a trace. So much to read on this blog! No time to write.
    And thank you to David Allan Harvey for your passion and support. David, I think you often ask and provoke the very essential questions concerning photography and life in your posts. Chapeau and maximum RESPECT!
    A unique blog and a great source of inspiration! I hope I can add my ideas and thoughts to burn in the future.
    Panos, you have decided not to follow the beaten track. To find new ways is always difficult and it takes courage. You got quite a lot of criticism, which is valid, but if you ask me and my lesson to you would be: Keep shooting Venice. This story is your story. Stay true to yourself! It is great to have a free spirit like you! I think we can learn a lot from you.
    Confidence man!

  142. Panos,

    Yeah, I’m back. Was at the folks for a few days. The snow is gone now thank god. Thanks for the words about CYPHER. Yes, it is everybody’s duty as a lover of fine photography to go out and buy one. NOW! Ha!

    What Reimar said. I hope to see more essays that shake things up. The one that just went up taken in Mexico – well it’s fine photography and all and will probably appeal to all those that shook their heads over Panos’ piece – but damn if I know what it’s about (and somehow I think we’re supposed to, not that I need to know) and pinch me if I haven’t seen the same damn gauzy romantic pics of a Mexican square about 15 million goddamn times now (sorry, but it’s true! I have pics of Mexicans in cowboy hats too – and I was just on vacation). So it just goes to show that it takes all kinds, and even if Panos isn’t making iconic (or even “correct”) photos he’s thinking outside the box. And that’s a great start. Ciao brother.

  143. I liked this essay, definetely not boring. Some of the shots are quite weak (in terms of meaning, not technically speaking…I’m not talking here of the Corona+lemon shot, I like it ;) and could be replaced in future revisions. For what concerns the multimedia aspects, even if it’s true that playing with the interaction of audio+images+sequence+effects can add a lot to the simple bunch of images, my opinion is that the constant x seconds for each image works great in this case: it looks like time passing, and there was evening and there was morning in Venice beach, and evening again… and you, Panos, were there (that’s the focus of the essay imo: not Venice alone, not Panos alone, but Panos in Venice). The viewer is captured by the twist between one image and the next, that’s why the sequence at 40-43 does not work, even if they are nice single shots (nice light) imo.

  144. and even if Panos isn’t making iconic (or even “correct”) photos he’s thinking outside the box. And that’s a great start. Ciao brother.

    … if this one coming from Charles, hell yes I’ll take it!

  145. abele quaregna
    December 29, 2008 at 6:44 pm

    I liked this essay, definetely not boring.

    Abele hi,
    i see, i see… hmmmm, i need to admit that u nailed it here:

    “…not Venice alone, not Panos alone, but Panos in Venice…”
    thanks man… this is how i see it too…

  146. Panos, ti kaneis ? kalispera!
    another greek here, from Agrinio Greece.
    What is your hometown? You have a greek name but would you consider yourself greek or american?
    Did you see venice beach through the eyes of a foreigner, or american? Are you protecting or exposing venice beach?
    love from greece , i sent you an email, email me or call me when you make it back home.I am proud of you
    but i can’t find your website. I want to see more.
    kalles giortes

  147. kalispera to you too Minas… it must be 3am in greece…
    please tell everyone in greece about BURN…
    submit your stuff… dont be shy…
    my hometown is Arta, maybe an hour away from your town….
    now , i live in LA for almost 12-13 years… i dont know anymore if my “eye” is greek or american
    or whatever… I am a citizen of this diverse beautiful country called america…
    but my “eye” is a mix of craziness, misery, stupidity, desperation , pain , extreme happiness and conditional love… I’m playing with you,
    but seriously i dont know who the fuck am i anymore…
    like i said earlier, i’m trying hard to keep it together…
    hronia polla
    & happy new year
    ps: i will send u an email soon

  148. actually, Minas my friend….
    my buddy Tom H or Young Tom is way greek ( er ) than me….
    Uncle John’s Band…. or Barba Yiannis band…
    laughing , you crazy greeks…
    made me feel a little homesick right now….
    god damn it!
    ok, time for some scotch whiskey…
    fuck the beer…

  149. Justin, your website reminded me :)) … Cohen, a brilliant and influential renaissance man of sorts, influential in many fields and an alternate voice in many ways. Fairly recent powerHouse author, too. He would love 475 Kent I suspect, and he’s just down the road ;-)))

    Seem to fit this discussion, or as Bob Dylan said …

    “You are right John Cohen – quazimoto was right – mozart was right … there is no eye – there is only a series of mouths – long live the mouths … your rooftop – if you don’t already know – has been demolished ….”

    Almost sounds like Bob Black on acid doesn’t it? Hi Bob ;-))

  150. Mythos my friend, Mythos … we will get drunk, eat, fight, tell great lies through the night and into the morning and live like real human beings :))

  151. … done deal Tom.
    Mythos is thé word my friend…
    Greek beer…
    ALL, please support greeks to survive..
    They don’t export much anyways..
    Olive oil ( virgin ),
    Love , ouzo and MYTHOS beer…
    Buy anything you see that says:
    Made in greece..
    Because so far over here we only
    consume stuff that says: made in CHINA..
    and what was the last time you heard the Chinese government
    saying ” thank U”???
    Here we go again..
    Me talking about china, once more ..
    To all magazine editors out there:
    Can I please do an assignment about CHINA??
    I’m the right person if u know what I mean..
    Ok enough of me..
    ( oh and btw the new Guns &
    Roses album
    Called “Chinese democracy”!!!!
    Guess what: the band is already banned of performing in china..
    Now that was unexpected!!! Right???
    Ok kidding..
    Whiskey from Scotland talks loud..
    As TOM WAITS once said:
    It’s the PIANO, not

  152. I’m about to re-meet HAIK in a few minutes… i feel nervous…
    but why…? he has a wife , i’m straight… but who cares …
    photographers meet… controversy & stupidity arises…
    drinking scotch…
    “Harley” is sitting right next to me…
    what a handsome “Golden Retriever”…
    ok.. still waiting for Haik!!!????

  153. dood – lmao – chill, man – there is no controversy :-)
    gonna wait until my baby goes to sleep, grab the BASS, and drive over.

  154. Mr. Harvey

    i’m not paranoid but when you suggest that someone is hiding from something you are also implying that i am somehow afraid of something.. which i am not. i think that’s a pretty simple and fair connection for me to draw. and with regards to my credibility.. i fail to see how my credibility, which has been backed up by several photographers with respectable work, is in question at all. but somehow my opinion is bullshit while theirs is trumpeted. if anything i would say the credibility of the ‘family’ should be drawn into question . my points are valid from a completely unbiased perspective.

    and when you mention ‘traditional wisdom’ i really can’t understand what you mean unless you are referring to the National Geographic school of documentary photography which requires white liberal westerners to seek out suffering and indignation in the post 9/11 third world. personally i would identify more with a william klein type of photographer if for nothing else the fact that he doesn’t care, he’ll give a fuck you to the squares in the photo world and look for the dirt in his filthy enough backyard. anyway shoot me that email and i’ll shoot you back a link you can see for yourself.

    and i don’t want to sound dispassionate or cold in any way but when i view photographs i am looking only at the photographs. if the photos are good enough to suck me in then i’ll look for the back story.. not the other way around. i mean good for Panos but i don’t like photos because of the photographer but because of the photographs. to some that might make me seem to be a prick but i gotta be straight otherwise where would that leave my credibility with those that actually know me?.

    time for a glass of crown some fish tacos and scanning. talk soon.

  155. Haik,
    just left… he made it home…driving…
    lots of pilsner urquel…. beer
    beer , beer… and blog talk…
    again, thank U Haik…
    it was a great night…

  156. hey “just me”…
    it seems that you know Mat pretty well…
    how? from where ? why you guys are stabbing & “hate” each other to begin with?

  157. i always love & admire u marcin…

    “…This is your cross…”

    how can i forget marcin’s words???

  158. Panos, we could do with some more of Andrew Wiese around here, i hope he finds it appealing to share some of his wisdom, gawd knows i’ve been school-ed by it before; but this wave of trolls can bring out the worst in anyone.

    i suspect Andrew, like many others, are getting so frustrated with the wave of juvenile antics that his response to it may lumber him in with the rest of the clowns.

    i know that Andrew is exactly the opposite of this anti-intellect. If it seems anyway other than this, then someone’s hacked Andrew’s account, because this is the least clever thing i’ve ever experienced from Andrew.

    Andrew, if that is you, then i know you are your own man, so i’ll not give you advice, but personally i’m finding it best to say above the fray on this, it’s a good policy, if it smells like fray, just stay away.

  159. Mmm… “I don’t think…”

    Maybe an edit button would be good, in the forum? Might help if people have second thoughts about inane, pointless outbursts, too.

  160. damn Haik,
    u r 2 fast…
    but i see… you were using an f1.2 wide open…cant get any faster than that…
    it’s not u Haik that did it… it was the lens….
    ok, kidding,
    again thank u for last night … the conversations… your insights….the potato chips…the pilsner…
    & thank u for sharing your “project” with me…hope will see it soon printed in BURN…

  161. from HCSP (Flickr )
    @venice beach essay/

    a) gobgimmick Pro User says:

    style coherency- The thing that stood out to me was the utter lack of consistency in the processing or original format of the images. High contrast, vignetted, almost cross-processed images crashing into unprocessed shots that looked like they’d been shot on mobile phones.

    b) WAXY. is a group administrator WAXY. Pro User says:

    With Panos’ essay, it’s not even that it’s just colour and black and white, but also vignettes, odd filters, focal lengths, etc. The compilation was very messy and it’s obvious that there was no planning. It seems that he quickly pulled all his Venice shots from Lightroom or whatever and sent them off to DAH for editing, which was not done.

    c) Dr Karanka is a group administrator Dr Karanka Pro User says:

    I think they don’t only look like shot on a mobile phone.
    Posted 2 days ago. ( permalink )

  162. …flickrRobot… ok , if u really want me to bite…
    ok, i’ll bite…
    @ my friend Joni K that admits to my “cellphone” photos…

    well…I love, love,love cellphone photos ( actually i just had an email from my friend Karim/Ryan )
    regarding a new $17 lens ( wide angle ) that just came out for the iPhone…
    no kidding .. click below:
    anyway i can find a way to shoot i will..
    i dont care if its a lomo, a pinhole, a disposable,a cellphone/iphone, a leica with a $10000 f0.98 lens
    or a holga.. i will try everything and anything..

    i’m so happy that she even heard of Trent Parke & his mixing b&W with color adventures

    so……. anyways mr Flickerrobot, i really appreciate your info… really helpfull… i wasnt aware
    of HCSP hardcores … i will be checking it out if u send me a link…
    but please stop doing this because it is very close to “snitching” & i so hate snitching…
    so message to all:
    “please stop snitching”
    peace & hugs

  163. o.k. Panos, here are my picks: I don’t do critique as my opinions is just that, opinion.

    2, 3, 4, 17, 18, 23, 26, 34, 38, 40, 50, 51, 52, 55, 59, 60, 62.

    favorites 50 and 55.

    I didn’t see the significance of fried chicken or corona beer until I read your comment of their importance to a homeless man; yourself. Hope you get that sorted soon.

    Others are good locations (e.g. 6) but the photograph hasn’t happened there – yet. You can’t order this type of documentary photography, you just have to turn up and watch … and wait.

    You have great access to disparate groups and cultures inhabiting the same space. day and night may as well be on different planets. Fascinating: please keep it up. Your work reminds my of Nan Goldin, who photographed her unique lifestyle and friends, first and foremost for herself. Only later did the rest of us catch up. Your work is only just beginning but I see the possibility of it being able to cross the line between fine art and documentary editorial work. You need an agent or an agency to sell for you. If I saw the above picks in a magazine or newspaper I’d buy it and I wouldn’t be alone.

    Also, remember that all of the people posting comments here, including myself, DONT have an essay in Burn magazine. YOU do! Music was so right too.

    Here’s hoping that 2009 is your year.

    Mike R.

  164. MIKE R….

    i look forward to working with you in the coming year..please call me in New York after the 10th and perhaps we can meet for lunch or whatever suits you…i will set up a space here soonest for some real text oriented pieces…in any case, see you soon…

    cheers, david

  165. MAT….

    i think we might be both thinking something the other is thinking but not really thinking…you have not said one single thing i disagree with, yet we may be wrangling with semantics etc etc…write me please: davidalanharvey@aol.com with a link if you so choose…

    cheers et al, david

  166. Panos — this is coming together for you! I think there is value in the suggestions of a tighter edit but overall, I think your essay oozes the raw emotion that is both Venice beach and Panos Skoulidas. Congratulations!

  167. Soren hi,
    listen , i’m trying to express myself here, not as an artist because
    it isnt my job to name myself as an “artist”… “artist” could be truth could be a myth”
    but thats a whole another post…
    but definitely Im not building houses…im not trying to invent the CURE FOR CANCER either…
    to repeat myself:
    keep the word “cohesive”, or “consistent” as the ENEMY…
    why should i lie to this fucking venice essay?
    my brain is not trained to do the “consistent” shit… bro…
    it doesnt matter… unless its the AIRPORT or a BUS STATION…
    yes, at those places … yes youre right…
    “consistency & “ASAP” is the word
    peace & hugs

  168. I thing this piece has done fellow newcomers to photography a great service and I’m glad there is a place for it on the site.

    Most of the criticisms of the piece hold true for me but it’s awesome just hearing people discuss the piece, the individual images, the edit, etc. We could do this on polished pieces done by pros, but it would be a little more difficult and tougher to get them to respond. :)

    Thanks to Panos for dealing with the backlash and griping in such a cool way. As a former resident of Venice I kind of get where you might be trying to go with this. I don’t think you’ve quite pulled it off yet, but you can take the critiques and shoot more, get a really GOOD beer shot no problem, you seem to hve plenty of opportunities. :)

    Anyway I’m still relatively close to venice, next time I’m down that way, I’ll attempt to look you up, or just look for the crazed maniac with the camera, either or.

  169. JARED
    i loved your harsh flash b&w… it “did” it for me…
    u are a great photographer… former resident of venice?
    please gimme a ring next time u r around!
    lets meet up … this how i learn,
    from YOU:
    from DAH,
    from bob ,from pat ,from ryan ,from young tom,
    from ERICA ( wat up brooklyn bridge );-)))), from eric.. sorry ERIC i meant, Marcin, MARCIN i meant,
    my little pervert friend Herve, Katharina, Marina, Stupid Photographer, David Bowen, cathy, Rafal or Jinju..( amazing b&w ), the rolling stones, the doors, jim morrison, tony H, Big Boy, Fuzzy, Power106fm,
    my sister Mary, Haik, Akaky, Sidney, HILLARY,…vanessa, borki, becca, koutski,alicia, harley, natchway, JOE, Ludmilla, VassoS, VISSARIA, my mom, grand Inn in LA, magnum, the united states of america, OBAMA…, cynthia,
    ana, anna, anna maria, gina, kloei, chris, kelly, Lance, PeteM, Mike, MIKE R, michael K, David McGowan & little younger brother of his, & from Andrew S & Andrew B & mat & matt & ben & ALL OF YOU &
    all the other friends out there…

    happy New Year’s eve manana… leave the blog alone… focus on your families,
    but… i know you’ll be here at one point or another… i know , i know…
    i know how addictions work… best believe this!
    peace from LA

  170. Panos

    You know I am the last who will give a advice to anybody, but for me, just for me… you should hide your digital m8 to photo bag and buy a contax g or used m6-m7, buy a lot of b&w (or color) films and star shooting on films.

    Yes, I know… this is not my bussiness…

    anyway… this is what I think.

    I wish you very well my friend.

  171. MARCIN,
    yes i think u r right… people need to see consistency!!!
    from me ? ok, then consistency it is… next
    should be film and M8…
    marcin. ask haik… i sleep with the M8 right next to me… its like a gun…
    happy new year ALL.. in a few hours…

  172. Panos

    More than consistency I wish to see magic quallity of film in your photography. I provides some big things in your photos soon and I just see it on b@w films (but may be in color).
    buy films camera some films and epson 4490, it is extremely cheap scaner, but quite good for b@w.
    Keep what Panos have most valuable; just more Panos.

    and do not mix m8 with m16 :)

  173. Don’t get out of the RV Dude , All my Panos fave’s are in there , I never thought that you and I would have anything in common but for DAH’s post a ways back.
    Take Care Brother , Stay the course!

  174. PANOS …
    ufffff. I have simply no time right now to read all of these comments, but I quickly scanned over them and think I got the general idea. Forgive me now, if I say something that has been commented before.

    I had been curious to see your photos because I was expecting this kind of mix in style. And … for me at least … it works beautifully!!! Generally speaking. It is the best representation of this subject done by you that I can imagine.
    Ok, indeed I would opt for different photos here and there because some simply could have more impact – but this has been wildly discussed here and I do not have to repeat it. Actually I do not worry too much about it, because you are the one who is working most here… I am certain you will come up with the right material eventually.

    I would not necessarily reduce the images IF the quality of the motivs is high enough and does not repeat itself (without purpose).

    BUT … and here comes the thing that popped into my mind right at the third slide and made me cringe until the very end: For me this project (how I see and understand it) just does not go at all (!!) with this slideshow layout. And it is not even the fact that the slides are the same duration. It is the linearity. The serenity…. the … gosh … how should I explain?

    Maybe it is easier if I say how I would have expected it to be: a little image popping up on the upper left corner, than another one – bigger maybe – somewhere else on the screen, a third one shortly after overlaying both of them, some fading in and out, some popping up harshly, like a slap in the face … Going with the rythm of the music partially only to go against it at some other point. I expect the images to come and go, to interact, to BE like the life they are representing!!

    I probably could explain this better but I hope you all got what I mean.

    You cannot stop at the presentation of your images! The presentation must be part of it. And it is not only the fitting music. It has to be a package where every elemenet delivers it’s fragment of the message. And for me the slideshow just worked against Panos. My two cents.

    This slideshow-plugin is very beautiful and elegent (I have even asked my programmer, if he could include it in my WP-site :)), but it presses Panos work into the wrong frame. OR, if there is no other way, a completely different edit – done specifically to work with the constraints of a slideshow- should be worked out.

    Even if it is more work, Panos, you should choose a software that gives you more freedom to show your work in a way that carries the message. For me for example it is very hard to picture an exhibition of your work. I see a huge screen and flickering images all over … not steady. Never steady. Images living (and dying) as the subjects in them.

    Maybe at the end, for a presentation similar to this, you would need even more than 60 photographs …

    Hope you understand what I mean… It does not stop when the image is done…. it goes on. The way you serve them is a very big deal which I hardly see any photographer really worrying enough about …

    At the end …?
    I really hope you go on with this work. I really sincerely do hope it. Maybe you find even more variations to make photos – I love the sincerity of using whatever you have on hand … iPhone-images fit very well to the topic for me. As do M8 or any other … In fact I would find it awkward to have it all coming from one camera and all in one style knowing that you are not a fly on the wall.

    You have a lot of work ahead, but I really think it could be absolutely (!!) worth it if you go on. I understand now fully why DAH has such an high oppinion of you. You are not afraid to take a machete to make your way through the jungle …

    Lots of respect,

  175. LASSAL,

    Great great feedback. As I was reading you, I was thinking ABSOLUTELY!!!! Panos, think about tha point, I think that “freestyle” way of also presenting the photographs could really work well!!!! LASSAL, I told you this before, nobody else than you is best at coming up with a CONCEPT:):):)!



  176. Panos, (Marcin),

    I wouldn’t be so quick to dump the M8 if that’s what works for you. But try and shoot exclusively with that for a while, just to see what it’s like. I find the M8 to be a great tool. What you may need to do is spend a bit more time in post. I find the M8 files usually need some work (actually ALL digital files need work – hmmm same goes for film). Try and find somebody with a calibrated monitor and LR/PS you can hang out with for a while and tweak the images.

    If you can beg borrow or steal a Nikon D700 you might be blown away with what you can do. The high iso’s are amazing – I just shot a whole magazine piece at 3200, something I would never have thought of doing before (I have the D3 but it’s way too big – wish i had D700 instead). Might be real cool for your nocturnal wanderings – you can shoot up to 25,000 iso, though I keep it at 6400 and below.

    I love film (hey CYPHER was all shot on medium format!) but more and more it’s slipping by the wayside for me, alas. I will be shooting b&w film at the birth of my baby (and beyond). I found some negs of me when I was a baby the other day and I want my kid to have some negs of him. But it’s also so damn expensive now! Digital does allow a certain kind of freedom (esp if you’re living in your car!) that film doesn’t.

    Marcin – have you tried an M8? You might be blown away, esp for color….(my poor M7 is really lonely now).

    Okay, enough gear talk. BTW, I really Lassal’s ideas above.

  177. ERIC …

    how great to hear from you – I just came in from the last walk with Hunter in 2008! :)
    Had to tire him out for tonight, we will be having a nice fondue with friends …
    Gosh, it is damn cold outside!!

    Have not yet answered to your mail … And I have such a bad concience because of that! Please forgive me, but I do not want to answer in a hurry. Still owe a mail to David B and Bob too … Guess I am buying me an iPhone next year. I am on the road too often at the moment to manage to keep up with the online world.

    Had a glimpse at Kat’s single image and … Hopefully I’ll manage to have a better look at it tomorrow.

    A lot going on simultaneously here – actually I like it – but it is getting harder for me to participate.

    Hope your moving organization is going on smoothly …

    can’t you put up a donate-button for the website?
    Or is there an account for BURN someplace?
    I think a lot of people not only appreciate this place but would love to contribute. And as I am not a programmer and cannot help this way, I would very much like to help you to help this place. If you understand what I mean :))

    wish you a very happy new year 2009!!!

  178. Charles,
    between me & U only…
    i do have an M8 version of Venice only…
    consistent, beautiful, superb… not even the best film can come close when shoot in 160iso…
    the above slideshow, with cheap cameras, cellphones mixed with the M8 represent my craziness,
    my imperfections, my confusion…
    but i totally agree with u… no other digi compares to an M8…
    not only the camera but the design of R/F lenses too…
    but i will try the d700 soon… exactly for what u said… for the moonless nights…
    viva M8 ( sorry for the advertisement but i do believe it )
    All my latest work about the DARK KIDS… its all M8… no black & whites, no inconsitencies,
    all tight….
    but venice should stay loose…. as loose as hell….

  179. Thank U Glenn…
    thanks to DAH… This great guy…
    is like an avalanche… rolling down the mountain…
    never stops…
    have a great new year Glenn!

  180. I live in the U.K. David but a trip to NYC is not out of the question. I will help in any way that I can.

    Best wishes for the New Year to you and family.

    Mike R

  181. ERIC, LASSAL…
    yes, great feedback… i should find a crazier way to “show” things…
    even the time sequence… why 2 sec each photo???
    why equal opportunities???
    the photos are not “equal” to begin with…
    hmmm, im not doing much justice …
    hmmm, thank u both!

  182. Michael K
    so glad we met in C/Ville…
    imagine if we can make it to LOOK3,
    once more and have a Real beer…
    This “place” here is so surreal and real at the same time…
    Last day of this year… last day???
    wtf ? how do we “stop the time”????
    why do i have to feel one year older tomorrow????????
    i need to “unzip” a beer…

    btw, “tony” aka Jim performs tonight in venice, till 2am…
    he text a message this morning…
    “… i also invited 3 girls…”
    thats it. i decided… im not going… im gonna spend it with HARLEY,
    ( again, Haik, thanks for the slide show so people can see how “hot” Harley looks like..
    golden retriever…nonetheless… and WHISKEY.. FROM SCOTLAND… no other
    substances involved,… i think…

    anyways… HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL…
    peace & hugs from bloody venice…
    and do not forget …” please wear condoms”


  183. hey lassal,

    happy new year to you too!

    … and good point about the donate button and account for BURN. we’ll look into it asap. just want to make sure when/if we do this, we have everything in place behind the scenes, and all angles covered…


  184. ALL…
    HAPPY NEW 2009…
    PLEASE leave a message to show me U R ALL ALIVE & WELL…
    please tell me U ALL passed the “finished” line, that U R alive & kickin’….
    i’ll be here waiting…
    peace for ALL
    & hugs also

  185. brother:

    happy new year! :))))…just woke up….talked to Captain david last night :)))…i have almost no voice (lost it on monday, because i’ve been sick) )))…hard to believe, i guess that why i wrote/typed so much this week at burn and writing essay….no words spoken…

    we’re alive alive…up late, mamosa’s for breakfast….showing Dima Venice now…i’ll let him leave a comment…

    happy new year!

  186. DIMA,
    U may have the most creative year in your life, so far of course…
    Star shooting now so when you’re thirty years old , you R going to have,
    probably 10 books published…

  187. Panos:

    Dima just finished watching, here is his “critique”:

    He liked the photographs and thought that the music went well: the mood and atmosphere. He REALLY like the photograph “in the trailer”: the masterpiece #40!…he said, he cant say why this photograph is so great but it is the one “that hit me.” (see, he has a very good eye too ;))) )….he also liked the b/w images (hmmm, like dad/mom ;)), no, he’s totally independent from us..)…

    ok, so that’s the critique of Dima :)))


    ps. for those reading, dima is my son, 14, a photographer himself…

  188. Waxy,
    hi again,… U just mentioned couple unmemorable shots…
    but is this a contradiction???
    how can U even “remember” an “unmemorable” thought?
    not really that confused;-), but mainly playing…!
    peace & lots of hugs…
    happy new year Waxy …!

  189. Hi Panos,

    I wanted to let you know the opening shot is great, I dont even know how you shot that. But some of the photographs I love the most are the ones inside where you have this beautiful light exposing the subjects in some private and intimate moments, such as 39, 40, 41 and 42. My favorites are 23, 41, 42 and the best is 50.

  190. With An intro like this had i was looking forward to a jacob holdt type closeness. Imagine my suprise when i find that its more like art school voyuerism. As my dad used to say ‘some people can talk a good fight’. Applaud what is going on on this site, but i would love to see far less self promotional hype, far less ‘essay writing with supporting stills’ and more good old fashioned iconic imagery.

  191. Edit: + apology
    While i stand by my comments above, i do wish i could modify the post so that it didnt come accross so harsh. Sorry. I have a long habit of bluntness that is often read as arrogant/aggressive which is not how most people tend to experience me in the flesh.

  192. panos skoulidas

    “…Sorry. I have a long habit of bluntness that is often read as arrogant/aggressive which is not how most people tend to experience me in the flesh…”

    Hey Unevolved N,
    its funny but as you were describing yourself above,
    i saw my “reflection” on that mirror also…
    thanks ;-)

  193. @panos. I would expect so as I walked the roads you walked for a very long time also[ I always found getting to the edge relatively easy; the trick was in keeping your balance once there]. Very glad you found something to believe and someone to believe in you. I will follow your progress through the maze with interest

  194. panos skoulidas

    Stefan hi,
    I used to be obsessed with
    technical perfection etc.. for many years…
    I was laughing at everything else but a LEICA
    lens.. Until Majoli & Paolo ( with their point and shoot cameras)
    “saved” me..
    I still care about perfect lenses, I do have an M8,
    I still care about perfect WB and this and that..
    But not that much.. I shoot a lot with the iPhone now or a D50
    or disposables.. Anything..
    Anything to capture the right feeling..
    But not to capture the “correct”exposure..
    .. Trying to capture the overall feeling though..
    & Venice gets dirty and fuzzy at times..
    so then I use dirty and fuzzy lenses .. etc

  195. Panos you can shot with a old shoebox with a hole in it.. I dont care with what you take your pictures, when looking at photography I look at content and result, not with what camera it has been taken. compositions, emotions, use of light ect…

  196. panos skoulidas

    I got you… bro, I got you..
    I’m just trying to emphasize the
    difference between capturing “technical perfection”..
    and capturing a “mood” or a “feeling”..
    Like people “blamed” Ashe for too much magenta..
    .. if her WB was perfect then that photo wouldn’t really
    work for me..
    But I hear U, I’m with U..

  197. Panos, I am not one of the net jearks who runs from site to site to leave comments. if I look at a photograph, I look longer, so if the human and emotional content is weak, if it does not touch me, I look after composition and technical part.

    so the young girl, it has a nice mood, for 5min. then I see the death eyes, once I have seen them, I can get over it. it is a nice photograph, but it could be much better with some slight light in the eyes…

  198. P.S. people these days get famous for their daily bla bla in the net, not for their photographs, the more they talk the better they get.

    that was a general statement, about photography in the net.

  199. So Panos, are you saying that the technical imperfection adds to the artistic merit of an photograph? Just kidding. :)
    I’ve “blamed Ashe for too much magenta” because that post-process intervention distracted me from looking at the picture. I still don’t see what the “mood” and the “feeling” has to to with color shifts. Wasn’t it good enough photo as it was. Did she had to do that? Why?
    As for this series of yours, i give you respect, and i think you should do more of it and make more stunning images, so it wouldn’t be hard to ditch the average ones. You may be emotionally attached to all of your photographs, but for me at least, many of them are just not good enough. While others are two leagues up.
    I have find that shooting film has another good side. You have enough time to forget your images, and the mood you were in at the moment you’ve took these pictures. So, you could be more realistic with editing.

  200. panos skoulidas

    im not attached with any of my photos…
    i HATE them all…
    i have new VENICE work , that i will post soonest…
    some new “great” stuff that i also “hate”…
    but honestly, FUCK FILM… it makes no difference for retards like me…
    i either love or hate and when it comes to my work… i usually “hate”..


    you lost me here John….where are you seeing the “self promotional hype”??? now, where oh where is your work here?? i love your stuff….let’s do something!!

    cheers, david

  202. panos skoulidas

    JOHN said:
    “…With An intro like this had i was looking forward to a jacob holdt type closeness…”

    John… quick question:
    ” have u ever been in an LA jail for being too close??????”………
    im serious… bro…
    have u ever been really close???? except from that Jacob Holdt book…
    get out of your book “reality”… wear some handcuffs for a night and then…
    hit me up…!!!
    god damn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  203. jenny lynn walker

    INSANE! Is not a word I usually use. But… I’m on Aswem beach in Goa, India looking at your essay in an internet cafe and the guy sitting next to me is from… Venice beach! So we looked at it together and he read your opening words in a great dramatic voice and it sounded like he’s on stage, with his wonderful American accent… ‘Your words’ and ‘that voice’… and that was just for starters!!!

    Then, I was looking. Bemused. Confused. Recognized the beach front I walked down must be 8 years ago and I saw myself reflected in your essay. It’s **total** eccentricity! Yes!!! Strictly focusing on ‘the feel’ of each moment, however it may come. I relate to that completely! It’s ‘on the edge’ spontaneity. Leaving time out of the frame and dealing in the existential… a free-fall recall how it felt is all that counts and, at the same time, a ‘road trip’ laced with clues to ‘pick up’ on… starting with the gun. the hands. the blood. the woman and the guy with the tatoo. what was going on at that precise moment? the bracelet like a handcuff. the man being dragged away? what came the moment after and the moment before? I’d love to hear your ‘actual’ voice in an MM presentation with this. THAT would be ‘pure poetry’…

    I’ve finally seen something that makes me feel a bit better about being ‘me’, or at least lets me sigh a sigh of relief!… thanks so much!!!


    PS please don’t hate your work…

  204. Ohhh Jenny…
    what can i really say… if venice beach can inspire INDIA…!!!?
    WHAT more can i ask????

  205. panos skoulidas

    Jenny… exactly..
    INSANE…. confused… thats the best definition for venice…
    u nailed it…

  206. ALL…
    I got a really great wake up this morning…
    A present was waiting for me to open in my
    Email inbox…
    It was a quick note from a LEGEND..
    another MAGNUM guy..
    ” I’ve seen your Venice on BURN..
    interesting …. Let’s meet in athens ..
    …………DAVID was
    Stressing always that there are a lot
    of IMPORTANT people our there checking
    on our progress here..
    and NIKOS E.
    is one of the BEST..
    or should I use Sean G’s words ..
    One of the BESTest!!!!!
    Thank you
    You made my day.. Friday and 13 here…

  207. …. And if NIKOS made my day…
    Then DAH made my “life”…
    David thank you once again for you
    Allowing me to keep dreaming..
    and keep the fire BURNing..
    love y’all..
    from the peaceful and well behaved LA..

  208. Panos,
    looked at your Venice slideshow again the other day and I like it even more!!! Glad the music is still there!
    The pictures you took while driving to Seattle are road movie like. Nice shots!!! Except the Benz looked a little unfamilar to me.
    The bw photograph in Charles studio made me click on his web page. His images of the grunge bands in the late 80ies and early 90ies are classic.
    In my little tiny hometown Enger we had a club called “The Forum”. Bands like Nirvana, Mudhoney, Leaving Trains, Sacemen 3, The Clean and others played there. It was a great time and I took black and white pictures of most of these concerts. That reminds me to dig into my own archive and see what is left from these times. I wonder where I left them…
    Panos, keep on driving safely! Looking forward to your next set of images!

  209. Reimar,
    yes, DIG, DIG, DIG in your archive… Leaving Trains ????, my favorite… Mudhoney???
    please go dig, scan, post………….. i cant wait…

    ok… ALL ,again, below is a slideshow ( small part )
    of the roadtrip with Haik to Seattle…


    please,( again ),
    increase the duration of the “slideshow” from 3sec to 5 seconds…

    peace & hugs y’all
    from the sexy LA…

  210. Love traveling with you, Panos. Haik too. Your eyes see things I’d miss even if I were right at your side. The yellow cast to the water in the toilet for one! It’s great to see Katia with our kids. Priceless that. Loved seeing Charles too.

    I’ve been missing your day-by-day slideshows. Keep ’em coming…


  211. Patricia,
    thank you…
    when BURN launched.. i started becoming more “uptight”
    regarding posting random travels ( dreams ),etc…
    people would get distracted from posted “essays”… singles.. blah blah..
    but Marcin reminded me the other day that when im “full” i need to “empty”…
    i cant hold my photos “inside”… keep them for me… keep them for later…
    impossible… i cant do that… not me..
    sooooo, once more the “driving to seattle with Haik” below…


    ….. oh and im working right now on my OBAMA inag….. piece…interpretation…
    gimme couple minutes … coming up soonest…

  212. BROTHER P! :)))))))))))))

    god damned i miss california AND driving road trips….I loved all 3 slideshows…totally dig the trip to Seattle…that’s some mofo shizzlly wheels bro….fucking MBenz insignia on the shift, chriiiiiiiiiist ;))))….dig the shots through the great cali desert….and totally dig Venice-Havey….loved David’s hat and shootin flash through amber ….dos xx?>>>>….and love he Obama….keep em comming….i miss this slideshows of yours…and now now now i gotta it major bad for a drive…especially along the coast or through the desert….gotta get my 2 brilliant life-partners to Calirofnia….hoping 2010….

    how aobut a road trip to toronto???

    keep em coming…

  213. ALL…
    I’m in Venice right now..
    Anybody wants to show up???
    Having a clam chowder.. and a Stella Artois..
    ( of course )…
    Call me, text me or simply show up!!!!!

  214. PANOS…

    you continue to photograph your everyday life in a way that is such a DIARY…it is a diary like writing on bits and pieces of scrap paper all jammed together in your pocket to someday be sorted out…some will say EDIT TIGHT..and in fact i say EDIT TIGHT…eventually, but not yet…not now…now i say just roll roll roll…i mean, editing is going backwards…you are driving forwards….go man…free…we will get to the tight edit the minute you tell me you are done…in the meantime, go for some rubber in second gear….

    cheers, david

  215. Yes….
    I promise .. I will BURN some more rubber..
    “these wheels on fire…”
    and no.. I’m not talking about NASCAR…
    this M8 will melt in my hands …
    Ok .. I’m shooting now…
    Thank you BURN …
    Thank you that you let me self assign myself..
    People, ALL, Haik…
    Remember what I told you..
    Self assign yourselves..
    Give your self an assignment..
    and do it.. Do it.. Till u can’t it no more..
    Sky is the limit..
    Don’t wait.. Go out there and shoot..
    The whole world is waiting..
    The whole world is watching..
    Don’t let them down..
    Thank u David…

  216. I agree…. Looking at the images you have shot from time to time while working on a long term project is helpful, but don’t edit until you are finished or ready to publish.

  217. panos–

    where is brother tom??!

    i love that you see the stage as a ‘gate’. that gives me a whole other
    perspective to it. that is the gateway to “the devil’s triangle” which
    is the nickname for that area (where you, tom and i were) that the kids
    hang out in. and those cop cars are always there. around the clock.
    we don’t even “see” them anymore, they are such a part of the scenery now.

    thanks for taking me back to that great day. :))

    love you, bro..


  218. KATIA…

    i was asking myself the same question..where is brother Tom??? and by the way, i want to catch up with you soonest…i have not forgotten you at all…just a bit crazy busy sometimes..please forgive…but, when i get to Seattle i will be all yours….i look forward to that day…

    hugs, david

  219. “Do it.. Till u can’t do it no more..”

    Hey, man, I envy your hot shutter finger!!! Mine has cooled off to practically slow mo. I may be done with this project. Just can’t seem to come up with anything new. Maybe it’s just the Michigan February blues or maybe I’m just DONE. I planned on taking pics through spring but now that seems like an impossible dream. I’ve got about 70 keepers or almost-keepers. Maybe that’s enough…


  220. No you’re not DONE..
    no you’re not.. Trust me..
    Take a break coz you are going for the long haul..
    As long as we live.. We will be doing this pat ..
    As long as we breath ..
    We will pay our dues as long as we wake up in this earth…..”
    peace y’all…
    Y’all represent…!
    … From Venice…

  221. Great photo, Patricia.

    Sometimes I think I just need to whack myself over the head with a beer bottle to get away from myself before I can see photos.

  222. If you (Panos) come to Toronto this summer we all 3 have to get together with my friend Yeung Seu Yoon ( http://photo.net/photos/Yeung-Seu%20Yoon ).

    Bob and I tried and failed last year, but I think it will happen this year.

    AND CA in 2010 sounds sweet! My wife will be outta school and itching to travel- she’s never been to Cali, and neither have my kids.

    running to sit and work… urgh.


  223. Toronto???????????????????
    3 uncles, 3 aunts, 7 cousins… i have a whole family in Toronto…
    All of my mothers 3 sisters live there……its like little greece for me..
    yes i need to visit…
    & chill with you Asher, Bob, Marina, Mike Berube… and the rest of Toronto-ians…
    i might drive up there… i was tempted to drive to Vancouver when i was in seattle…
    god damn it,,, i came so close…

  224. looking at your work Panos..
    is inspiring…
    the freedom you show in your photography,
    is wonderful…
    so raw,
    straight up~
    no bullshit…
    love watching your slideshows..

  225. Shit- we may be related!! I have many many relatives there, grew up there, met my wife there, many amazing meals on the Danforth… and Chinatown, stuff from Kensington, played in a reggae band in the 1980s at the Bamboo, the Diamond, the Masonic Temple/Concert Hall, Sneaky Dee’s… photographic on Queen St., Yonge St, the Islands…. Long history!

  226. The more the merrier , indeed… how did i forget about Dima…????
    ok.. ALL…
    IMPOSSIBLE to go back to sleep…
    working on some couple venice photos from last night…
    coming up soonest………………………………………………………..
    dont go away…!

  227. Asher.. how funny..
    imagine U & me distant cousins…
    but wait… what am i saying..???
    we are already related!!!!!!!!!!!
    we are “BURNoulians”…

  228. Wendy… give me one more minute…
    new work from last night…
    VENICE BEACH before the storm…
    ( its cooking right now, or should i say BURNing??? )

  229. Big thanks to David, Panos, Wendy and Asher for giving me the support/encouragement/kick in the pants I needed to keep on keepin’ on. Last night’s shoot opened the door and today I flew through it. God, it felt good to be playing with my camera again. Overthinking is death to creativity. Just ask me.

    Here’s a link to my “unblocked” self portraits from last night and today:

    PASSWORD: patricia

    Thanks, dear Panos, for letting me post my links here in your space. This will be the end my “trespassing” though ;=)


  230. Go… Go… Go… Patricia..
    I’m just renting this room..
    I have lots of news..
    I just met Ludmilla..
    More later.. Soon..
    Gotta drive .. Driving..
    Going home!!
    Hotel I mean.. Gimme an hour…!
    Patricia keep the fire burning..
    Keep my “room” warm..
    Please post more… Right here..
    I love BURN…
    ( Joe thank u for introducing me to Ludmilla..)

  231. 5:12am..,
    Downtown LA…
    Heavy Rain, just woke me up….
    All the roads to Big Bear are closed…
    Heavy Snow… i wanted to visit my Dark Kids today…
    play with the snow…
    but instead lets see what happened to Venice Beach yesterday…
    it was raining in venice… it was windy in venice…
    it was a horrible day for my homeless beach bum friends…
    let me cook for breakfast… gimme couple minutes please……….
    morning y’al…

  232. hey P ;)))

    love the new slideshow too…(ok, i’ve now seen 4, have i missed any??)…6 (looking good) is great and i love the guy going into a trance…and i like this perspective of shooting Venice from Jim’s van !!!…especially the pic with the word ‘venice’ in the top window….keep em coming. loving this venice trip :))))


  233. panos! :)))))))))))))))))))))))))……

    love love love it! :))))))))….i was, i dont know why, but i WAS MESMERIZED by all these bridge/driving shit :))))..one after another…i guess im really big time missing a road trip…and funny, last night i dreamed about Seattle and Portland: real!…go figure…love these phone-diaries…keep em coming :)))

    long live grunge indeed! :))


  234. ALL..
    I just paid a beach bum a dollar
    to tell me a joke…
    He said:”where do one legged people work???”
    Of course I had no clue..
    So he continued:”….at the local iHop….”
    I don’t if that was funny enough.. but I payed the dollar anyways…

  235. You know whats really funny Haik ???
    The president of all Californian Pigeons…’is the same
    guy that owns…all the Unicorns and Fishes at my part of town…
    isnt that weird ????????????

  236. love the pigeon dance, indeed!…and all that pigeon stuff followed by 14, 15, just gorgeous…and i rarely remember light in La like this…usually in winter after a storm…if only LA had light like this all the time :))))))….

    p; check this book out: the extraordinary book and work of Masahisa fukase….his extraordinary book Ravens….

    go to the gallery here and click on english and click on PHotographres to see his work…

    one of my heros…



  237. Hey Panos,

    Here I am, I missed commenting here before but as promised Im here.
    One thing off the bat, I think that your mix of b.w and color actually comes off fine. I like to stick to one or the other and never mix but here its OK.

    I think I see 2 essays here actually, one a street photography essay which I like less and one a very personal, strange essay which I like more and which fits the music better.

    Ill give you an example. I like the title slide, pic 2,3 but then pic 4 and 5 not so much. I love pic 6 of Jim in the empty pool, very good… I like pic 7 but then pic 8 is a bit of a let down….pic 7 has something strange to it, pic 8 doesnt grab me. Going thoriugh the sequence I like pic 13 a lot, it looks cool and has a great mood. I like pic 14 but not really 15. And so on. I think you can see what I mean. I think some of the shots have this weird, mysterious feeling and some lack it. For me, I had a hell of a hard time editing down, DAH helped a lot though ofcourse I didnt agree with all of his choices and some email ping pong I think bridged the gap. My goal was to be below 30 images and DAH made that happen by being ruthless. I think 50 so images is a lot, and I think the two essays as I said could have been separated.

    Now, here are the shots I love from your essay.
    2,3,7,9, 13, 14, 18, 20 (MUCH better than 10 but basically the same sort of idea), 22, 25, 35, 36, 37, 40 (great), 41 (great), 42, 44, 49, 50, 55, 59, 60, 62
    I think that a 25 image slideshow would have been a more powerful punch.

    However, I must say I think you did a good job showing us life in Venice, full of energy and mystery. Keep shooting, would love to see the book.

  238. panos skoulidas

    you do keep your word as a real man,
    i wish you would live closer… but i feel you lately as “close” as it can get..
    thank you for revealing the schizo gemini in me…
    i need to “study” your comment.. not just re read it…

  239. lol

    Panos, you are David’s favorite:) I am jealous of the editing session you got to do with David. As I said, a good editor is really nice to have. I have a hell of a time editing my own stuff, especially cutting things out.

    I read you and David are working on a new edit of Venice….new work to be included?

  240. Cool work, Panos, as David would say, “I see a book”, with, if I may, just a few links/shots I find not on par with the whole (just one example, the “cleavage” shot, rather blank/trivial within the context of your work and the place itself) especially towards the end of the slideshow. But you nailed the place for us altogether, just wonderful to finally see all the work you’ve done in an almost complete stage (ie. nothing ever being complete or finished).

  241. panos skoulidas

    let me admit something here ( publicly ) , coz your comments “touched” my heart…
    YOUR personal WORK and also the book SABINE… inspired me tremendously
    on my “DARK KIDS” series…
    I wanna say thanks to you in public….

    ( cant wait to see your essay here… cant wait …)

  242. panos skoulidas

    … Im up in the mountains right now,
    working with the DARK KIDS as we speak…
    i will post a new small link in a while…
    again Rafal, i got lots of inspiration from u…

  243. panos skoulidas


    no work is ever finished…
    like real life..

  244. kathleen fonseca



    my son sk8ting in Santa Monica..he did not know anyone was filming and had no idea this video existed until 5 years later he happened to be trolling Youtube back home in Costa Rica..saw the title of the video, thought to himself, “I skated that spot. lemme check this out” and realized it was him..68,500 views from strangers and he gets to see it for the first time. Anyway, thought you might enjoy it..it’s very short..


  245. panos skoulidas

    IS THAT YOUR SON?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
    ( some??? skills )… he got THE skills………..
    totally enjoyed it …
    so, thank you for sharing…
    i feel part of the family…………
    He has strong skills… because he has a STRONG MOM…
    IM SOOOOOOOOOOOO PROUD OF YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!! ( and him )..
    thank you again !!!!!!!!!!!
    huge hug!

  246. kathleen fonseca


    This is such a bittersweet video for me. At the time, he had undiagnosed Aspberger’s Syndrome and became severely depressed, cutting himself and everything. Came back to CR after just one year at Loyola. Took several years for him to recover from this terribly low place during which time he was even diagnosed with Schizophrenia. But he is doing much, much better now, ohmygod, is he ever! He’s in engineering school again (that’s what he was studying in L.A.) and skates much better than you see here. He’s also a downhill mountain biker and an enduro motorcycle rider. And fucking reads Kafka. I mean, he’s got it all. But ya know what? That year skating in L.A. was as much a high for him as a low. He loved being there and experiencing that. And i love that he did it. Even if we almost lost him. Sk8ting all around, in Venice and Santa Monica and all over, well, they were unforgettable experiences for him.

    Thanks for taking the time to look at the video and thanks for your big welcome to me here and the hugs and all of it..thanks, Panos..i will be looking out for your work with much excitement..you shoot with tremendous passion, it’ just a joy to see your slideshows.

    your friend

  247. panos skoulidas

    oh…… Kat..
    ( sorry i missed this comment… just saw it…)
    I would like to meet him..
    i had to quit downhill mountainbiking
    myself ( that was the biggest obsession in my
    life from 2000 to 2005… broken legs…
    fractured elbow twice and no health insurance..Anyways..
    One of my best friends has a whole metal plate in his skull..
    it beeps everytime he has to go to the airport..
    Anyway, your son sounds like my kind of guy…
    im glad he is doing better…though…
    and yes…. santa monica, venice , the mountains ,
    riding all the way up to the nike tower, the HUB,
    TOPANGA…. all that holy indian land …San Andreas Fault………..
    unforgettable… No way to ever forget those places…


  248. Reading James Frey’s ‘Bright Shiny Morning’, some of your frames fit in there very well!

    (A search button would be a helpful thing, it’s quite a pain to look for something if you don’t remember when it has been published here on Burn)

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