© Stefanie Mueller from her essay in BURN 02


Who has tiger blood? Well, tigers have tiger blood. While drinking the blood of tigers and cobras and rhinos might be considered an aphrodisiac for some, it would seem to me that a bit of exercise, a good night’s sleep, a full moon, some good wine, and candle light might be a better way to go. My feeling is, leave wild animals alone. Reaching in vain for an elusive romantic notion has probably had everyone one of us make a mistake or two. Learning is of course the name of this game of life.

While I mostly feel I have so much to learn, I spend a whole lot of my time as a mentor. Not with huge quantities of knowledge. My only job as a mentor/teacher is to give those who seek it a solid dose of energy. Get ’em fired up. Make them THINK they drank some tiger blood. Drive them just a little bit crazy. Make sure they do their very best work..

If you think it, if you believe it, then you are 90% of the way to having it. Most of my mentoring I do gratis. One of my responsibilities on this planet. Self imposed and as pay back for being lucky. Some of my mentoring I do for a tuition. As altruistic as I tend to be, I too must face earning a living. I do not need much, but my workshops do have a tuition attached. Any astute person, and there are many here on Burn, can certainly over time get on Burn whatever I teach in a workshop.. for free. Send me a link and I am going to give a review, some thoughts,  and hopefully get you going on a project. Audrey Bardou, Panos Skoulidas, and Erica McDonald, all with significant essays published on Burn are just three examples of emerging photographers I mentor with no compensation expected.

Others here have guaranteed my time by taking a week long shooting workshop. In New York, in Thailand, in Mexico. Wherever. Education usually does cost. Books, college fees, etc. If most of us feel that education is one of our most valued commodities, then we should all be willing to consider education as worth the price, assuming the stuff that gets learned is worth it. I always try to make it worth it for those I mentor gratis just as much as to those who compensate.

So I think I will use this same model of give most away, and be compensated for the rest on my work now in RIO. I would like to take  this Burn audience vicariously with me to Rio. Yes as an educational exercise.  As reportage. This 4th trip to Rio in the last 2 years will finish my last chapter for my personal book.  I have already completed my National Geographic assignment.  I am taking you with me with daily updates as i  finish the book. How I how think about a book, and a fast paced walk on the wild side in RIO.

For it is this “behind the scenes” approach I am taking by presenting a subscribing audience with a real time real view of “this is how it is”. A  very personal look  at play that is work, and work that is play . A party, too much fun to be serious? The party, well , yes. But a serious effort? Absolutely. My whole reputation as a photographer will be on the line. The National Geographic piece will most likely be out in late spring of 2012 and my RIO book and exhibition opening in Sydney , Australia at around the same time.

The NatGeo piece will be one thing hopefully of great value for one demographic , and my personal book will be perhaps my very best work. We will see. I am feeling it. Deep down. Anyway the process , both  the physical and  the psychological,  will i think be educational for those who seek it here on Burn. We may also do a super limited  workshop experience. 2-3 students max. Details to follow.

Some of this will be regular programming here on Burn. Yet the deepest behind the scenes will be a daily updated subscriber section. For a month. Those who choose this option will get a serious discount on the book. I must work out the exact numbers formula , but the  one month subscription will be less than a cup of good coffee and the discount on an expensive book will be about 20%.

In other words for example  you invest 2 dollars for the WHOLE MONTH (that is like 6 cents per day)  for  daily how to do it updates …then later get say 20 dollars off the price of the book. Or 10 or 15 , depending on exactly how expensive a book i do..  The exact numbers are now in flux, but I will have it all locked down in about a week.

So you will  see what I am doing in Rio now for a nominal monthly fee, and save serious money if you want the book. A good deal for you and might just help me get the book done. OR don’t subscribe, don’t buy the book , and you will get much of it here anyway. No hard feelings. I am going anyway. This is going down no matter what. But of course I will try to make the behind the scenes so damned compelling, you will go for the subscription !!  Use your imagination.

My case in point, and my next big feature,  is to  see what is up in RIO through my daily picture/text postings and dialogue with you.  I am leaving in about two weeks for a month of free style rocking crazy serious shooting. Gonna be intense. Can you handle it?

Better drink some tiger blood first!! Smiling…




Everyone is trying to figure out ways for photographers to earn a living in the digi age. At Magnum we are working on this , as a member photographer I am doing the same. The main thing is to have original content. The model above , if it works, could be then used with many photographers. The readers in effect vote on content. In general, Burn in 2012 will have all content you will not have seen prior. We will pay for this of course. Hopefully with your donations which do keep us going already with EPF and original commissions as we did for Burn 02 with Paolo Pellegrin and Bruce Gilden. This is the model we want to use for everyone. This is our goal.

So our whole point, both with live “broadcasts” and with online and in print is original content. Seen first here. Perhaps a part of the new upcoming Magnum system of individual photographer “channels”. Stay tuned, more information later.

It is most likely to your personal advantage to give our small crew here at Burn your support. After all , we are only here to discover you. To find new work , from new photographers, and to light a candle as well to some icons who may lead the way for you. You will spend your earning on photography one way or another, and I can honestly say you will be doing yourself more good keeping the flames at Burn on blue hot level…We are photographers at Burn.  Not businessmen. Yes we need funds to keep going. Why wouldn’t we? We are not rich photographers. Burn struggles every month to survive. Mostly we want to be able to create fine objects. Fine books. Fine workshops. Give you good spirit.We want to stand for the high end of photographic pursuit and we intend to earn it.

You can easily see we have no advertising and our only sponsors are generous donors. We only owe you.

I am guessing that Burn 02 (available below) will be sold out or close to it by Christmas. I believe last year that 01 was gone by mid January. My friends at the traditional publishers of photo books tell me that Burn is rocking the boat. The few copies  of 01 we did hold back are now selling for double the original price. We did not hold back any for that reason, because this has been a total surprise. We expect 02 to be a collector item as well. Limited edition anything is always of best value.

Anyway, check us out. Hang out. All of you just being here helps us. Give us your ideas. Give us your pictures. No wait, SELL US your exclusive essay!! Photographer’s rights are my mainstay philosophy. Our whole constitution at Magnum is about photographer rights.

So  yes help out my staff with a bit of support if you possibly can. If you are a committed photographer this will come back to you in a very real way. Or if you simply enjoy looking at leading edge photography , then it will come back to you in a real way as well. Our donation button is in the right hand column. Buying 02 is another way to help all of US. Thank you.




USA, Canada, MexicoAdd to Cart Rest of WorldAdd to Cart (For volume puchases (over 10 copies), please contact
Diego Orlando directly at diego@burnmagazine.org)




475 thoughts on “Tiger Blood”

  1. Yes, Rio!!
    Never been there… but going south and escaping the boreal winter is a great idea…
    Like a NASCAR or F1 car just going out the Pit Stop. Tiger and Fresh new blood.

  2. But sir. That’s a lion illustrating the tiger story :)

    Seriously. Sounds exciting and,perhaps, breaking new ground again.

    Pay to play is a good way to go.

  3. Ggggrrrrrrrrrhhh!!!!

    Even I am excited!

    “Come on and dance nasty with me!” she begged (this was 30 years ago, you understand).
    Who can refuse an invitation like that?

  4. Dragging out the suitcase.. going to Rio.. WOOOOHOOOOOO :)

    Been there, have family from there.. remember very well my feelings when there, the visuals, the sound, the smell.. the deepest feelings I have of Rio are sad ones.. very very curious and looking forward to see where you will take us.. thanks for doing this!

  5. DAH – You know I will be following and at double the price, because I will drink my own cup of coffee as I follow you. And I am counting on you at your age to make this your best, your Magnum opus, because I must do my own, and you are the one who reinforces my belief that it is possible, age be damned.

  6. PS – Burn O2 arrived just yesterday – I’m a little frustrated, because I kept meaning to pick it up when I was at your place but kept forgetting and so I had to pay postage.

    And I can’t even take the time right now to open it up – but next week. Next week I will make myself comfy on the couch and get lost in Burn 02.

    Patricio – you also reinforce my belief.

  7. Taking the NYC workshop was one of the game changers for me. Since then, I have been following up with #OccupyOakland and I know I get hits for my blog when people google “David Alan Harvey” and “Occupy Wall Street.” I have started working on the project we discussed in the cab.

    You do good work, and especially your mentoring us new photographers. All the Best in Rio!

  8. That sounds really exciting, David. Following the “Rio Dairy” on-the-fly via an App is perfect for most, but – and excuse my ignorance here – aren’t these apps only available for IPhones and Blackberries? I have neither, just a Windows laptop at home; will I be able to connect onto this project? If that isn’t possible, how about a pay-for-view Luddite box here on BURN? Otherwise I’d happily wait for a costed diary after the project is over.

    Regardless, count me in on the frontline to witness this!

  9. I’m excited to get a chance to see how you work. For one reason or another I always find myself in situations devoid of peers or experienced people to learn from. The internet has been a help in this regard, but even just an hour or two of watching someone else’s process does more for me than months of reading discussion or trying to reverse engineer someone’s process from what is available online and in books.

    Can’t wait!

  10. SIDNEY..

    exactly!! you got it…..


    Alec Soth had a good conversation going on his blog about at what ages artists produce..check out my comment there….for sure between 25-45 is when most artists do their very best..makes sense of course….yet there are always exceptions…first i was producing some of my very best before that age range, and i plan to now do as you suggest…again, just thinking you are doing it is a good feeling all by itself…i am not working for the historians of course..that would be folly…but i am just working…happily and on the one thing in life i seem to know how to do…i don’t give classes in cooking or auto repair or gardening….


    i have re written the story to say what i meant…this Rio update/online workshop/diary/how i made this book will be a nominal subscription, not an app…that might come later…but for this round, just a simple click to a website with the new work and the new conversation with readers…


    i will try to make this really work for you…my students who have actually gone to the field with me on a committed shoot, all tell me they learn more from being out there with me shooting than all the class picture critique combined…normally this just is not practical , for the way i work , there simply cannot be a lot of people around also shooting…but this way, is the next best thing to being there…and we can adjust…i will be listening to those who have logged on for what they want to know..


    thanks for this…woke me up for my morning coffee…i hope you know i will be in Oz in May 2012…Sydney …RIO opening at ACP..i surely do hope we meet…


    sorry we missed on skype…i am shooting so much here at home, it is very difficult for me to give you an exact time when i will be near a computer…8 or 9 am my time is usually ok, but not guaranteed…you just have to stay on my case…


    it was a pleasure to have you in the New York loft class…you were the best of students with just the right energy…you listened , you went out and did it…for sure, i look forward to what you have done since…for those who do stay in touch and who do new work or need help with book projects of import, i do always pay attention…i cannot follow every single thing you do, but if you really get going on a good long term essay, i will be there for you…

    cheers, david

  11. I’d be tempted, DAH, verrrrrrry tempted, to subscribe to the Rio Redux Daily Feed, or the Harvey Beach Report, but… I am wondering if you will be able to honor the commitment. Don’t flinch — I know you’ll try your David Alan Harvey best!

    But in the middle of a wild-on-the-edge-partyhard/workhard-live it – love it self-assigned assignment, how, oh how, are you going to find time to parse images and post updates? I mean, I assume you’ll be posting pictures, that would be, for me, the lure of the subscription… and pictures from you are oh-so-hard to come by as a general rule. Just a tantalizing trickle now and then. Can you go from a “back soonest” to a see-you-in-the-morning mantra? That’s a major commitment and potential distraction for you as you round the last turn.

    Being on the subscribing end could be great fun, I’m hoping you can pull this off. Maybe “daily updates” should be 5 days per week, promised, to give you some wiggle room?


    You say RIO for NG is finished. When will we see OBX? Ready to re-up by NatGeo subscription.


    Rock on, Maestro!

    — dq

  12. EVA

    oh my, yes RIO is not all bikinis and volleyball…RIO is Shakespearean drama(s)..beautiful setting…all is hot and sexy and well yes lots of tragedy and a very dark side at times…but Brazilians are a pleasant and vibrant lot…i like them…we get along really really well…the hospitality i have received in Rio is second to none..did not know you had been…like to hear about it..


    i am coming to L.A. next week…you around?? i hope so…smiling already….


    well i do not think i will have any trouble keeping up…right now i already basically do daily instagrams and write for Burn etc on a very daily basis…during this month in Rio , i will do no other duties for Burn…all will go into this…how will i find time? my time will be to do only this…my work for myself will be my work for you….the same thing…what i do on a daily basis for Burn is way way harder than what i will have to do in RIO…it will not be an extra job, it will be THE JOB …i have spent my pro life producing on demand..newspaper and magazine and ad agency deadlines …david delivers!! besides this is my own baby…i have no commitments to any other magazines and will not take any…so DQ, you spend two bucks for a month and i promise you enough education and entertainment to last you awhile….any commentator here who wants their 2 dollars back at the end of the month, well i will happily return it… :)

    or better yet, any commentator who shows up in Rio will get a free caipirinha and become part of the story and heaven help you!!…now, what photo blog offers you that??

    i am right in the middle now of some heavy shooting on OBX….just before i sat down to answer the questions here, i was out running around chasing a morning rainbow….i love love shooting here..yes, even rainbows and landscapes which i might normally shun….OBX is the antithesis of RIO….but it too will be a book most likely..one thing at a time..one thing at a time…

    i think both stories are scheduled for NatGeo mid 2012…but there are many variables and this is something only Editor Chris Johns knows for sure….this reminds me, i want to do an interview with Chris…when i saw him at the Lucies he agreed…he is a great example of a photographer turning into an editor…he went from staff photographer to Editor of National Geographic…the first to do this…go check out his work in Africa…a formidable body of work…we will see it here soonest…Chris is one of the good guys in the biz…you will see

    stay tuned DQ, i will not disappoint….


    i always always like to see you…which has not happened much lately…i am behind in seeing your latest work…again, just stay on my case…i cannot be available to everybody all the time of course…but you hold a special place…show me, show me….

    cheers, david

  13. Paul, we’re gonna have to figure out some other way of getting there; I don’t remember where the wheelbarrow’s wheel is. I had it last summer and I put the damn thing down and now….well, it’s somewhere, which isn’t saying a whole hell of a lot, given that everything is somewhere, even if it’s nowhere.

  14. DAH,

    Must relieved to read that the subscription will be offered here and not as an iPad/iPhone app (was wondering how I could wrest my daughter’s iPhone out of her grip for daily Rio updates :-)

    I’m SO looking forward to this!

  15. Wendy , Jared is in Oakland!..we talked yesterday…i urged him to return to venice asap , at 10th on november and meet / assist DAH.. Jared of course loved the idea!!!!!!!

  16. Jared gave me some amazing info for whats up in Oakland! Cops cover their names/ badges and Occupiers , occupying foreclosed homes , refuse to return them back to the banks etc…crazy stuff…
    Oakland LEADS THE WAY AT THIS POINT ..im a little disappointed with NY and LA..but yes yes , Oakland is serious about it!!
    viva Californication …Cali once again leads !!!

  17. “OBX is the antithesis of RIO….but it too will be a book most likely..one thing at a time..one thing at a time…”

    Copy and paste.. before someone.. cough.. can delete it.. ;)

    One thing at a time.. sort of.. yes…

  18. marcin luczkowski


    It’s nice to read, you are going to keep shooting in Rio. I was very impressed by last pictures I’ve seen in NatGeo movie. I hope this time (if it will be not a assignment :) you will post some pictures from time to time.

    And about first part of the post, I’ll be forever grateful for the teachings that you have given me.
    Learn a lot.
    From the best of the bests.

  19. DAVID,

    I’m looking forward to seeing your daily updates. Did I miss the link already?
    Have collected a few photos for “nine to five” since we met the last time, but not enough quality yet to take the next step…

  20. David…

    I’m finding the concept of the Rio/Burn project fascinating…Laughing…you seem to be one step ahead of all your Magnum associates and I’m sure you’ve got them scratching their heads in amazement…I bet many readers are worried or curious to see if you’ll be able to execute the five tucked turns of the quintuple Burn/Rio somersault with your essay surviving intact and also managing to create the greatest work of your career. I believe this is the best idea ever…YOU know and some of US who know YOU are absolutely sure there is NO way you’ll let this go wrong, even if this means spending three sleepless weeks in Rio because you LOVE the idea of a challenge and what better way of making sure you are forced to make the quintessential hat trick essay.

  21. Paul..

    It is the same system like on Kickstarter or Emphas.is, but way cheaper, there you need at least $ 10 if not $ 20 to be part of the behind the scene updates.. and there’s no guarantee either that you get them, not all photographers are the same, some post a lot, some nothing at all. With DAH we know he’ll do his bestest best to play all along.. as you say, rather not sleep.. :)

  22. knowledge will beat the beast, not excitement
    Herve, totally true , knowledge! although Excitement and Passion is very welcomed and needed!
    but most important is common sense (and common sense is something that the authorities/cops lacking…)

  23. Panos, nobody helped the movement take off that cops acting badly. Time for some gratefulness and in a way, think about it, they do occupy too (the more, the merrier)! :-)))

    PS: does Jared know if the cop hurt by a projectile is in the same hospital yard as Scott? Maybe they can play chess, go fishing together soon? Bike-riding? Exchange uniforms?

  24. David –

    Take us to Rio! Let’s go! Vamanos! Andale!
    Looking forward to crossing paths soon.
    Until then… Thank you. Gracias. Obrigado.

    Que le vaya bien.

  25. ALL

    it seems to me that this model i have for RIO could me a model for many in the future…the more i think about it , the more i like it…actually built on an old Magnum model…the concept? just friggin go..then tell the editors “hey i am already here, and i am already shooting, and my pictures will be on your desk tomorrow morning”…this my friends is for me , as both a photographer and an editor, way better than the Kickstarter fund raising style.,.

    this way takes the pressure off, is a minimal purchase for a super maximum result…the investor of say $1.99 (for 3o days worth of daily updates) would be able to see right away the photographer on location…not some promise to get going soon…the Magnum model…just go..pictures right now…stories..that spin off into other stories..there is always a way…if you think you are good, you will gamble…if you think your idea is really hot, you will gamble…purchaser helps to fund a worth project and ends up holding a collector book..the secret for this to work is lots of subscribers…right now a few fund a lot for Burn.. we would like the model where a whole bunch of people pay a tiny bit…and get a collector book at a low price…i can’t see any downside to this …

    again, i am going to Rio anyway…i was locked down on this trip before i even had the monthly mini comp idea…so for me it is just a test, almost a game..yes, i am playful about it, as i am in general and yet also very very serious…those who know me, know both sides which are perhaps oddly connected..well what ever works , right? .i will take this very seriously…because of pride…if there are 10 subscribers , those 10 will have the ride of their life..anyway, this is all cool for all of us i hope…there really are some win win situations in life..i want to be a part of as many as possible..

    i always encourage my students to do this…tell them to just one way or another give yourself the assignment you wish someone would give you…..afer all , you should be that someone…

    cheers, david

  26. Ross that’s the apple/canon trick make photography and the wwwdot world slash computers accessible to all and then slowly up the price ante for access to current trends. They know photographers need change to survive so new carrots are offered.

  27. a civilian-mass audience

    I am in…whatever is going on…I am in…

    how much? 2 euros= 4dollars= 2.000.000 drachmas?


    P.S Now,I have to read all the comments and see the pictures BUT I feel like a TIGER…
    yeah,babe…I am IN!

  28. a civilian-mass audience

    I call all my civilians out there in the Universe…to help me out…

    I have only 5euros to donate but,but,but I am an optimist…
    my chickens have agreed to stand by me…
    together WE CAN DO IT !!!

    once a BURNIAN
    always a BURNIAN !

    yoho,yoho,the BURNIAN’S life for US…


  29. CIVI:

    Jaja, 2Million Drachmas = 2 EUROS??!?!? How about donating Greece debt bonds… hope the situation get well after the G20.
    Just for info: Argentina is the country in the world that have the “saddest and biggest” banknote ever: 1.000.000 pesos.
    At that moment my father salary was of 130.000.000 pesos!!

    We are not 99%, here in burn we’re 110%

    Big hug to all

  30. DAVID

    I like this way of thinking.

    I see this as being all part of the limited-edition philosophy that you regularly discuss here. And with so much content appearing on a daily basis these days, making the quality stuff exclusive seems right. Not only that, you are also setting the way for “paid for” digital content, something that many others are continuing to struggle with. I also like how you are reversing the model here with digital content coming first and the physical book coming later – which Burn of course has done from the beginning.

    The Kickstarter approach to funding seems to work for some, but as you note it adds pressure to a project and you get a sense that in some cases the project will only happen if it receives the funding. I always question that mentality – if a photographer is truly passionate and committed to their work they will just do it – get a project going no matter what, instead of sitting around waiting for the money to come. As you are advocating here – if you get on with it and do the work the support will come anyway.

    Will your daily paid for updates be viewable on a computer? I don’t have an iPhone or iPad.


    Justin P

  31. I’ve always liked the limited edition philosophy, especially with Burn where 2$ is so democratic! I mean who finds 2$ expensive? What I do struggle with is the limited edition aspect of books. I’ve always liked the concept of limited edition in music, books, guitars, amps and racing bikes but I suppose that’s because once upon a time I could afford them. But the educational aspect of photography, learning your history can be extremely difficult for those in the future if all the best work is solely kept as limited, because all it does is makes prices soar. Antoine D’Agata’s “Mala Noche” – I’m not sure if it was limited but it’s virtually impossible to buy cheap and by cheap I mean 100$. Same goes with most of Koudelka’s work up until recently and don’t get me started with Bruce Davidson’s “Brooklyn Gangs”; I’ve rarely ever seen it go for less than 800$!! So maybe for the sake of the future generations, the concept “limited” in photography when it comes to books could take similar stance as in music. LPs and CDs where you can choose either the limited edition with a little extra something and the standard version. The standard would always be affordable in the second hand market and the limited would be as expensive as usual. But those hard up for cash can learn just as well and not miss out on anything.

  32. David: Thanks for the clarification – I’m all in. I’d also be more than happy to cough up two bucks to read Roberta’s observations…and I’ll gladly carry Civilian’s fee for both. Please and thank-you.

  33. “one way or another give yourself the assignment you wish someone would give you…..afer all , you should be that someone…” this stirs my tigger blood – I’m in, where do I sign up?
    Speaking of signing up, the support area should be more prominent: I for one keep intending to support Burn but just go straight to the essays and comments and then just … forget. But today I shall not forget; my tigger blood is stirred!

  34. JUSTIN

    exactly…as i said, Magnum has run their entire business for 60+ years by just doing it first, and selling it later…that way the buyer knows exactly what they are getting…some kinds of stories, mostly natural history stories requiring huge budgets, may not work with this model..but for most photographers who are working on either human stories or landscapes or art projects, they can get going with very little money…and do what every photographer i know does, take on a commercial project to pay for a personal one…if this model works however, then you maybe just maybe could finance a worthwhile project from the get go…anyway, we will find out something from this one…

    so sorry i am behind on all that you do…we have sort of lost touch…and i think you are too polite to stay on my case much…i appreciate that, but i am telling you to get on my case after my shoot in Rio..between now and then i really have zero time…but please know that i am interested….just not enough time in a day!!

    cheers, david

  35. DQ

    yes, $1.99 per month…this gives you daily updates at a cost to you at i guess about 6 cents per update…i thought i wrote this clearly , but maybe not …some others were confused as well….anyway, we will set this up next week and i will write so that nobody can think it is more than 2 bucks FOR THE WHOLE MONTH..2 bucks for 30 days worth of updates…

  36. Over and over again I keep watching this video on Alex Majoli…

    When will he get a book published showing most of the work on the video, there is just nothing!

  37. a civilian-mass audience

    JEFFFFF…I have requested the assistance of the silent readers,civilians to help me out…
    hiii…I am the one who puts labels here…YOU are in the “ACADEMIANS circle”…therefore…
    you cannot cough up bucks for me…hiii…
    don’t we all love my English?:)))))))))))
    please, enjoy a black coffee 1.99 with our BOBBY BLACK…
    Viva and thank youuuuu ,JEFF!!!

    Italian friends…stay strong…and stay away from IMF!
    EVA,VIVA…November is here…my favorite month…I didn’t forget you…just I caught up with the
    rolling news…!

    MR.HARVEY…just remember…glass doors and people are tricky…oime…you already know that:)))

    PANOS…”you are the subject”…!

    I am looking for more updates…COME ON BURNIANS…I know you are all tigers!

  38. David, Magnum has a well-deserved reputation for long-term photo essays and for staying on a story when the media circus moves on. This way of working gives rise to powerful photographs that stand the test of time i.e. they have a human and monetary value that can be counted in decades.

    That said, photographers and their families have expenses to meet and the work now get paid later model does have its problems as far as cash flow is concerned. You wrote earlier about the tremendous good-will that exists towards Nat Geo and how the reader numbers have held up over time. I believe that Magnum is missing something here because they are held in similar regard within the photographic community and many would be more than happy to see how Magnum and Magnum photographers work and to pay for the privilege. I read that Magnum are looking to benefit from their standing and reputation and rightly so.

    With regards the Magnum website; it needs a drastic overhaul (as you know). the last time I tried to buy a book from the site the shipping costs were almost as much as the book because it was being shipped from the USA even though Magnum has a U.K. office.

    I remember the BBC (many years ago) showing the “In Our Time” series of programmes over a three week period and I taped (remember video tape?) every programme and watched it repeatedly. Today’s television has multiple channels showing mainly repeats and drivel (sometimes repeated drivel). When was the last time you watched a serious T.V. programme about photography? I can’t remember the last one I saw. If I could pay to download quality programmes about photograpy I would in a heartbeat. Magnum could provide such programmes. Magnum photographers don’t have to become experts in multi-media but could have a third party produce the output. If I could go to the Magnum site, order a book, download a video and pay for a podcast to follow e.g. DAH in Rio I’d be a happy man.

    Apart from the above everything’s pretty o.k. (laughing).


  39. a civilian-mass audience

    hiii…MICHAELK…that’s what I call reporting…

    everything’s pretty…messed up(laughing with MIKER)

    Where are YOU BURNING tigers?…show me what you got…

  40. a civilian-mass audience

    I have a question?

    do we have to drink tiger’s blood in order to follow …cause I am allergic to blood:)))))))))

    damnit…I love BURN

  41. dah — $2 = 2 little. don’t you think you could fairly ask for $5? or at least suggest $2 as a minimum?

  42. DAVID

    I have a feeling that this model will work and look forward to seeing your results and perhaps figuring out a way to try it myself.

    I sort of have, to a point, with my recently launched limited edition book. But much more could be done.

    Although we haven’t had too much contact, I think you are a good judge of character and have it spot on. I’m not one to shout loudly and can only imagine the number of emails and skype messages you get are beyond my comprehension. But I appreciate your apology, which is certainly not necessary. As you say, there are just not enough hours in the day.

    But I’ll do my best to get on your case after Rio. Good luck with it all.



  43. Mike R and dq…

    $2 is the kind of price which will pull everyone in. It’s an easy safe price, it doesn’t hurt if one doesn’t like it and it will feel absolutely marvellous and utterly well spent when all goes to plan. Five dollars will make some stop and think, maybe not the three of us. But for many photography is just a hobby, or are cash-strapped enough to stop and consider.

  44. DQ

    actually selling stuff is hard for me…that is why Magnum has always been so good ..THEY ask for money, i do not..my hands are clean!! but here with Burn it is only me…my company only…so i guess i must be the one…still hard for me..anyway, others are telling me the same ..i am not so sure….lots at the low price might bring in more than a few at a higher price…i mean, who knows?? as long as i can make people feel they are getting more than their money’s worth..that is what i always try to do with everything…

    cheers, david

  45. David..

    You’re doing this through paypal I assume? Are there fees to pay? At least make sure you get ghose in.. a coffee and a half? Cappuccino?

  46. EVA

    i have never done this before…i have no idea about a lot of things…….i am going to be in California with Haik the unsung hero of Burn..Haik knows the inner workings, the way to make things happen….what fees you mean?

  47. MIKE R

    Magnum’s website has been being overhauled the last year and a half…should be finished soon..complex compound issues to solve mostly having to do with the archive and having 35 individual photographer pages…it will be more than a website…you will see….

    i know nothing of the shipping procedure out of the Magnum online online bookstore…i do know just from the experience here on Burn that shipping becomes one of the most formidable obstacles to print publishing…sure Magnum could theoretically ship a bunch of books from New York to London and then the London office could ship it to you at lower cost than if you personally had it shipped from new york..but who is going to pay for a ton of books shipped from U.S. to UK? ..unless the book printed in UK or nearby, makes no sense to ship to UK…when we ship Burn to the U.S. from where it is printed in Italy we do so at a bit of a loss…we are always looking for creative shipping solutions….listening…

    cheers, david

  48. Very interesting post about the authenticity of “”Faux-vintage photos”


    “Faux-vintage photos devalue and exhaust their own sense of authenticity, which portends their disappearance because, as I described in part II, authenticity is the very currency by which they have become popular; there is an inflation as a result of printing too much currency of the real. For instance, the faux-vintage photo will no longer be able to conjure the importance associated with physicality (another point made in part II) if the vintage look begins to be more closely associated with smartphones than old photos. The novelty begins to wear off and the nostalgia fades away.

    Most damming for Hipstamatic and Instagram is that these apps tend to make everyone’s photos look similar. In an attempt to make oneself look distinct and special through the application of vintage-producing filters, we are trending towards photos that look the same. The Hipstamatic photo was new and interesting, is currently a fad, and it will come to (or, already has?) look too posed, too obvious, and trying too hard (especially if the parents of the current users start to post faux-vintage photos themselves).”

    It is written by a guy working on his dissertation about self-documantation and social media. Good read.


  49. A lot of users of the technique don’t think in terms of vintage, past etc they are making in terms of what is available now and it is about now not yesterday. Nathan is over theorizing and spends to much emphasis on “we”( which should be I) without the consultation of others.
    Then again we could taker Nathan’s stance
    Most damming multi linked blogs backed by a pseudo bio authenticity tend to make everyone’s philosophical blogs look similar. In an attempt to make oneself look distinct, learned and special through the application of linking blogs to the social media network. The blogging of social media was new and interesting, is currently a fad, and it will come to (or, already has?) look too contrived, too obvious, and trying too hard (especially if the parents of the current users start blogging the same sites themselves).”

  50. Today was the kind of day we sometimes get in mid to late autumn in Puget Sound when, in between our usual seasonal storms, the sky is achingly clear and blue, the air is so clear and crisp, and the oblique northern latitude light so intense and rich that everything seems to be made of carved jewels. There was heavy frost in the morning and the daytime temperature never got above 46 degrees F. in the shade, but the sun was so warm and bright that it felt much warmer. When you see these two snapshots, you will think the saturation has been turned way, way up, but no, this is how it really looks on a day like today. (Right, Tom? Gordon?) On a day like this it is magic to be alive. In North America, we white folks call this kind of day “Indian Summer.”


  51. Re: $2 vs $5 vs $10… people are paying how much for a workshop with you for a week? I don’t know the number, is it $1000? People are paying $1500 for 6 days at the Maine Media Workshops or $425 for three days somewhere else, or are buying $40 dvds that offer the secrets of lighting/posing/selling/upselling/photoshop/whatever — or taking $60 “seminars” at Photo Expo in NYC.

    People are paying $2 for a coffee, and $4.50 for a coffee with a flavor shot…

    I don’t know either — you might be right. I prefer the free apps on my iPhone to paying 99 cents…

    you might try tiered pricing —
    $2 for the whole month of insider views;
    $5 for the month plus the discount on the book;
    $50 for the month plus the book itself…
    $150 for the tips/book/5×7 inkjet print…

    or, you might try just throwing away this babble from me and going with your gut.

    that seems to work in most cases :-)

  52. @ RICHARD:
    Great XPAN work, go ahead shooting with that kind of format. I’m also researching with XPAN Documentary photography, at the beginning it was not so good, need to fill the frame, but now I’m really happy.
    Here are some of my galleries if you want to take a look (both work in progress):

    PORTRAITS: http://www.patricio-michelin.com/portraits-ii
    TRANSHUMANCE: http://www.patricio-michelin.com/transhumance

    I was “touched” by Michael von Graffenried about his work in Algeria and Swiss nude.
    big “panoramic” hug

  53. …and speaking/writing about XPAN Hasselblad: below I post a great work of another Argentinian photographer. He double exposed his films and this is the result:

    His method was simple: shoot a roll, throw it — unlabeled — into a bag of 20 or 30 rolls of Kodak Tri-X, shake the bag, grab a new roll at random and shoot again. He did not know which image would be superimposed on another, what ghosts might speak to each other in one frame.





  54. “A lot of users of the technique don’t think in terms of vintage, past etc they are making in terms of what is available now and it is about now not yesterday.”

    I don’t know if he is thinking in terms of people who consider themselves professional or just the population in general. My guess is probably the latter.

    I don’t know if I agree with everything he is saying, but he does make some valid points.


    Many thanks for posting those links and calling my attention to Michael von Graffenried and Rodrigo Abd, both photographers I knew nothing about. Absolutely great stuff, especially Abd.

    I also really liked your panoramic photos of transhumance and hope to see more.

    I have always been a sucker for the panoramic format and used to lust after first a Widelux and then an X-Pan, but in those days I was usually broke and could never buy either. These days I shoot and print totally digitally so the panorama is either a stitch or a crop… but it really is a powerful format and for me anyway a more accurate reflection of how I actually see the world. You have inspired me to give it another serious attempt.

  56. Of course he is referring to the social media users and that’s where he falls. To most it is just a app something to use, not vintage, not deep and meaningful just a way of presenting a image.

  57. No I am not missing his point I just feel he starts from a false premise and is assuming too much

    Also Pete I see the following as a insult “did you actually read the whole thing?”…….. but then it does come from someone who feels that they are a cut above all that post here

  58. Sidney, yes, a wonderful Indian summer fall day. no pics to show you as I’m at home now, but did four wonderful portrait sessions today, three outdoors. First, an elderly couple, loving each other, second, a family, who I first photographed 22 years ago, now an update, kids grown, dad not well, maybe the last portrait of them together, third, an extended family, again, old clients that I’ve not photographed for years, mom, dad, grandma, kids, grandkids, dogs, fourth, a three generation mother,daughter,grandmother photo in the studio, hugging.
    It is a priviledge to do what I do.

  59. Actually I was just asking. But it seems like I struck a nerve. Always looking to pick a fight aren’t you?

    As I said, I just thought it was interesting. The man is a graduate student in Sociology at the University of Maryland so he probably has SOME idea what he is talking about.

    But of course you are much smarter than he is…. Talk about arrogant.

  60. PETE

    when i was in Tokyo a few years ago, i went to photograph some Japanese teenagers who were into the American 60’s look..or so i thought….they had the greased back hair, listening to Elvis, tight pants, rolled up sleeves , the whole bit…my feeling was that they for whatever reasons were going for an American nostalgia thing…for ME it was an American nostalgia thing…after long interviews and after trying to tell them “hey Mr. Japanese dude, i really DID have slicked back hair, i really WAS a teenager in the 60’s 70’s “…they only smiled at me…as it turns out THEY were not referring to the 60’s at all..THEY were thinking modern…NOW…they had some vague idea of a reference, but that was not it at all..for them it was a brand new thing…THEIR INVENTION….NOT A REPLAY..

    folks who are looking at photographs that look like either this or that or “look like everybody else’ pictures” are just looking at the tech aspect…”looking like” as if tech were the only factor…pictures shot with TriX and printed on Kodabromide are not necessarily great pictures any more than an iPhone shot with the Hipstamatic technique…why would they be? it is still about the picture…the Kodabromide print could be “scanned” with an iPhone and then sent out on the internet and who would know if it was Hipstamatic or the real thing..and vice versa the Hipstamtic could be put on film stock and taken back to the darkroom and printed on Kodabromide (or equivalent)…there is a lot of chatter about the tech side when always and forever the tech was just the tech..8×10, 35mm, digi full frame, digi smartphone…great pictures are rare in any medium…tech fads come and go…or tech fads stay and stay..depending on your point of view and what you are doing and why you are doing it…

    folks really do spend a lot of time worrying/focusing on/about the wrong things…always better to simply find a technique that works for you and the subject matter with which you are working and go for it…photographers have ALWAYS gone for a look…the old masters would have used Hipstamatic in a heartbeat if they had it!! photographers have ALWAYS used whatever was available…again, whatever was available…selenium toning, double printing in the enlarger, soft focus lenses…all stuff for an effect…everybody has ALWAYS had the same tools..yet only a few did something with it..that was true THEN and that is true NOW

    cheers, david

  61. EVA…DQ

    listening…thanks for thinking….all being factored in …all high adventure…it will be fun to see what happens..it is not about the money…i am going to Rio anyway of course….it is just to find out if folks on the net are really interested in certain kinds of content…with so so much content free..in this case i am not selling pictures but an experience , a process..perhaps something THEY can use later to support their own work…

    all of us who are pros were not really supported by readers actually but by advertisers to a particular newspaper or magazine..the readers never really had a say in what was presented to them..they bought the brand (NY Times, NatGeo) then just took whatever was delivered..now viewers/readers get to vote on what they really want/like..they vote with their $1.99…

    as you say DQ, you prefer a free app to a 99 cent app…funny because i doubt you really quibble much over 99 cents for anything else in your life but on the net we are all used to free…two text messages for me to Europe costs me $1.00 and i just chat $10. away before i realize it..phone bill comes…i just pay it…i got nothing really for 10 bucks and yet i think twice , like you, before spending 99 cents on an app…

    well internet content cannot stay free for long…at least not the good content..will people care about good or not? some say no, they just don’t care that much…too many choices….but i think that once people actually see good or realize good, they want good….in all aspects of life..so will be the internet, or so i think…you can always cook at home after going to the market and buying your meat and vegetables one item at a time…saves money, and you create the meal exactly as you want it…or make your own music playlist after researching this and that…OR you can go to Radio Paradise and listen to an arbited choice OR you can go to a fine restaurant you trust and allow others to prepare a gourmet meal…cooking yourself is great, and going out to dinner can also be great…one does not preclude the other…hmmm, i am getting hungry doing all this writing…:)

    cheers, david

  62. all hands on deck for a good vibe salute and big hug for John Gladdy….i did not realize he was going for surgery, but i do remember him mentioning poor health….i will try to reach him this morning….

    5 minutes later: cannot get John on the phone….went back through my skype chats with him and see that he clearly mentions some serious health issues…but this was just before i saw him in Paris …in Paris he seemed fine , jovial etc etc..so after Paris i figured John ok…will keep trying….anybody else here on Burn who lives in London and knows John?

  63. a civilian-mass audience

    PATRICIOM…I might need to contact your father for some insight tips…he has been in my shoes…
    he knows!

    IMANTS ~ PETE…a lion and a tiger…ongoing philosophical analysis…
    keep BURNING amigos

    GORDON…is back home…and don’t we all love his place?!!!

    MICHAELK…if FROSTFROG likes your “tiger”…you are doing fine!!!

    yes…a BURNING meeting in Los Angeles!!!!!!!!!!!!
    HAIK is there…a True BURNIAN
    HAIK has helped me …credit when credit is due…THANK YOU HAIK !!!

    Good morning from beautiful Grecolandia…!

  64. a civilian-mass audience

    “Philosophy begins with wonder”

    hmmm…I am not there yet…BUT YOU ARE…


  65. David..

    I mean paypal fees.. I don’t know the numbers, but I do know that if I make a money transfer, unless it’s cash on the table, it has costs attached. If not with each transaction, at the end of the day paypal will want their sip of that coffee, so, since you’re giving this ride away cheap, at least look that whatever you get is free of charges for YOU! Haik, or whoever has set up the burn-paypal thing will know.

    dq’s suggestion about different options is a good one! As already said, if you need/want help, just give a shout.

    And I’m sorry to insist, wish I was as educated as Justin, but we need to skype before you leave, please and thanks and sorry :)

  66. a civilian-mass audience


    Well,I believe in November…November is a good month…I am sending ALL my good energy,
    and I mean ALL of it…to one of the best,Golden hearts here in BURNLAND…

    JOHNY, if you can read this…you are a fighter…and you have promised me…
    3 years ago,that you will come to your civilian’s house…
    I will wait for you…therefore,go on,finish with the “technicalities” and I will be here…

    ALL our LOVE to JOHNYG…we are HERE,whatever you need…together We Can DO IT !!!

    EVA,thank you…

  67. Civi..

    yes, THAT John.. he mentioned it here on the boards, or I wouldn’t have brought it up..


    It’s not about the money.. yes, I do understand that, but at least make sure you break even, somebody must work on this baby, right? Setting up the page and all that.. you (all) cannot work for free forever, just like you say, the net can’t be all free forever..

  68. No Pete no nerve just your superior wanna be attitude asking me if I read it. I just disagree with his initial premise just because he is graduate student in Sociology has nothing to do with it.
    We could go into thw same thinking and state that the clean, sterile clinical come look of your images is some sort of faux-cctv look ……….

  69. John Gladdy – Whatever it is, I’m pulling for you, for whatever that is worth. DAH, if you have contact with John outside of this board, please pass my regards on, just in case he does not read this. Were it not for his encouragement, I would never have made it to your loft.

    Civi – haven’t forgotten.

    There’s a black cat sitting right here, on my desk, beside my keyboard, saying, “I’m tired of Alaska winters! Send me to Greece!”

    But I won’t let him go.

    Nope. Has to be a different cat.

  70. a civilian-mass audience


    BURN is calling London…we are looking for JOHNYG…

    ok,I will be out again…I am on a mission BUT,BUT…my eyes and my soul is HERE…

    IMANTS,so many of my friends are in the Australian Embassy …we are coming over:)

  71. a civilian-mass audience

    “Civi – haven’t forgotten”

    FROSTY…that’s all I need…

    I will be back…and remember this:

    BURN is the place to be…WHAT NOT TO LOVE!!!

  72. No Civi you stay put Europe needs and wants you ……….if you come here you will be just another tourist who drank too much ouzo and had to be rescued by those tanned six pack carrying Bondi lifesavers. Then we will just put you on a boat bound for Christmas Island where you will be met with more ouzo and cigarettes and full “refugee go away” status

  73. EVA

    yes, we are working on it..but since it is pretty much a brave new world, there are almost no markers..nothing to look at prior…new turf, new territory…it is all a guess..all instinct…all the stuff i have dealt with my whole career….all ok

    cheers, david

  74. hey All. Am very touched. No worries this end. Am gearing up for a few rounds of minor heart surgery. Not valves or tubes or anything, just misfiring all over the place. A couple of electric shocks, maybe a little bit cut off it here and there and should be good as new. I have been advised that I should drink large amounts of fine cognac in preperation for this…and I am taking this advice very seriously indeed.


  75. PETE,
    I do not agree to the article you posted. Just as an example, take instagram. Even if all used the same filters to apply the same look to each picture, you would notice, that beyond that every photographer focuses on different aspects of their subjects. This came very clear to me, when I started to follow david on instagram. Composition, the decisive moment, interaction with the subjects are much more important to the look of a picture than any filter one could apply to a picture.

    I hope you can read burn, or have someone telling you about what they read on burn to you. All the best to you, good recovery and healthy return to here.

  76. John..

    You better check in here once in a while, ’cause you don’t want me to be too worried about you, you really do not want that!

    Love ya, take care!

  77. Ahh Imants..This is the UK. THERE ARE NO SURGEONS FEES. No medical insurance needed.

    EVA. I do, every day, have just been keeping quiet lately. And no I do not want you to worry about me….well maybe just a little bit :)
    Love ya too…..when do I get my print from texas???

  78. Pete…

    I’m genuinely curious and I’m not poking around looking for a argument to find out why you have such difficulty in appreciaiting any photography which isn’t “straight”. I sort had the same kind of problem when I first started on RoadTrips but I’ve managed to fall in love with most styles of photography. Actually I’ve learnt to see past style and technique and recognize good work whether it’s brutal grain, heavy digital manipulation or blurry images. All I ask from the work is to moved by it and perhaps take me away somewhere new. So I just don’t understand why you have so many hangups! I’m sure you’re missing out on sooooooo much fun!! :))

  79. When I mentioned $2 was a great price I naturally assumed the Burn crew had already looked into paypal charges. So as far as I’m concerned if $2 means breaking even then it’s a no, no!
    Paypal charges 2.9% + 0.30% per transaction – discount rates are available if you are a merchant. It’s free if it’s between friends.

  80. @ SIDNEY:
    Thanks for your comment. I’m having fun with that kind of format! and I’ll try to finish the ongoing shepperd story next summer (I will put more images soon, need to “LightRoom” the whole bunch of my selection).
    Here is another website: http://www.panorama-gallery.com

    Will LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE to do Rio in panoramic with some burnian folks.

    @ CIVI:

    How do you see a devaluation of the Euro??
    I can’t understand how IT can be so, so high compare to the US Dollar or Chinese Yuan. I think that is the way, hard at the beginning… forget about putting the money in bank accounts… buy BURN 01, 02, 03, …, 10, 11, 12,…, 99 before it disappeared. Or buy art (prints, vinyls, paintings, coins).
    Living for 25 years in Buenos Aires and knowing what a devaluation is, is nearly impossible to me to save money in a account, althought I’m living in France (rated AAA) since 2005…


    nice to finally get you on skype this morn…you are, as i remembered you, just as feisty as ever..good


    ok, well thanks…i mean we use Paypal all the time here, but i never pay any attention to those things…anyway, thanks for thinking and i will come up with the lowest possible number and still have it make sense to do it…i will also know way more our upfront operating costs after i spend some time with Haik this weekend upcoming in L.A…he is the one who will actually set up the RIO website with a subscriber section…

    your message to Pete was exactly what i have been asking since i met the man…nobody asking him to give up anything, only suggesting he look at some things from another vantage point…

  82. David…

    What you’ve managed to teach me since 2007 and I’m sure many others has made my life with photography so liberating and so much more about ME and MY life.

  83. John Gladdy :))))))))
    i will send emails for all TEXAS print purchases etc…once i finish details with gallery monday night…Gallery does not move as fast as i do unfortunately…their taking their time while im in a rush to be done with it…
    so tomorrow night , tuesday morning expect email from me with details…
    (that goes also for Eva and many more )..love u all..working very hard over here..
    big hug
    we are almost done..almost there..hang on one more minute
    thank you
    feel free to email here:
    (vent or send me some love:)
    anyways, all $$ transaction will be done through paypal etc
    i will send private emails to all (buyers/sellers) etc

  84. PAUL and DAH

    ” why you have such difficulty in appreciaiting any photography which isn’t “straight””

    Well that is not true and DAH should know this since one of my essays he keeps threatening to run is actually work shot on Capitol Hill with an iPhone and an app.

  85. I the support area on Burn: to set up a monthly subscription I need to set up a paypal account (which I don’t really want to do) whereas to make a single donation I can just use my credit card to do so – any reason why?


  86. Oh and I forgot to mention the series I am doing with the iPhone of trips my wife and I take. The plan is to make a little 6×6 blurb book every year with these images that are shot with the polaroid app. Looks cool, still just snapshots.

    A lot of people here seem to like to judge people they don’t know. I try to keep any comments to the work being presented unless I get attacked, which seems to be often here. Something I find pretty interesting since I am ALWAYS coming from the viewpoint of a working photojournalist and many times the ones doing the attacking are NOT working as a photojournalist.

    And DAVID, you go on and on about creating a style. Well here is the thing, I never went to photo j school and I only took one photo class when I was 17. Everything I know and do with a camera is from learning on my own without the influence of fine art classes or reading books about the masters. Sure I have looked through them but never really studied them.

    So why can you not just accept that THIS is my style? A style that is probably more AUTHENTICALLY mine than one which would have been influence by all the study you have done. So many times you read on BURN how a certain photographer’s work reminds someone of some other photographer’s work. Seems to me if a photographer is trying to create his own style and someone says it reminds them of another photographer’s style, then MAYBE the photography is successful, but the photographer’s quest for uniqueness has failed.

    One last point… DAVID, you said twice now, once when I showed you some work in D.C. and most recently on BURN when you said I have been doing some really nice work both with the circus and Capitol Hill.

    The interesting thing is that I have been doing all of this for years. My style has not really changed in the last 5 years. So really it seems to me that you are making this statement after a couple of years of being a critic of my work without really ever knowing what my work was comprised of.

  87. Mike..

    because a monthly subscription is like when you have your bank in charge of paying your phone bill (for example), it is automatically detracted from your card.. hmm.. that’s some bad English..

    Do you use a calendar of some type? Computer, phone, good old moleskine? Just set the alarm, mark it down in red letters, monthly.. only way I can keep track of stuff :)

  88. Ahhh.. what I mean, Mike, if you don’t set up a paypal account, you can make monthly donations, and to remember to do it, mark it, set alarm etc. .. I need an alarm for my braincells TO WAKE UP! :)

  89. One last observation…. DAH said:

    “when i was in Tokyo a few years ago, i went to photograph some Japanese teenagers who were into the American 60′s look..or so i thought….they had the greased back hair, listening to Elvis, tight pants, rolled up sleeves , the whole bit…my feeling was that they for whatever reasons were going for an American nostalgia thing…for ME it was an American nostalgia thing…after long interviews and after trying to tell them “hey Mr. Japanese dude, i really DID have slicked back hair, i really WAS a teenager in the 60′s 70′s “…they only smiled at me…as it turns out THEY were not referring to the 60′s at all..THEY were thinking modern…NOW…they had some vague idea of a reference, but that was not it at all..for them it was a brand new thing…THEIR INVENTION….NOT A REPLAY..”

    Well in a few years when everyone gets tired of screwing around with smartphones and especially the apps, they will again start making photographs “straight” (as Paul said, but not sure what that means). They will take the time to see the light and compose and then I will be the hippest guy on the block. LOL

    And David, you can say that back when you where younger YOU WERE the photographer who did that work that the new guys seem to be emulating, but of course they will be just thinking modern….

  90. I thought the article Pete recommended interesting on several levels, not least of which was the mastabatory quality of the academese. Photo-wise, however, I don’t think it’s much of a mystery. The generic hoard on Facebook use the apps because they think it makes their photographs look good. Since they are not photographers and mostly just point and shoot with no technical knowledge or sophisticated thought of light or composition, most of their photos are just not that interesting without the app. With the app, however, their points and clicks come out looking cool. And of course they all look the same. They all looked the same anyway. Center the subject. Click.

    For pros, of course, it’s a different story. Walker Evans Polaroids don’t look like my uncle Malien’s Polaroids or Trent or Tiffany app crap on Facebook. Still though, every time I see “davidalanharvey is using Instagram – a fun & quirky way to…” I’m reminded of an especially snarky put down of the X-Men movie: “And starring Sir Ian McKellen as Magneto.”

  91. Pete…

    “A lot of people here seem to like to judge people they don’t know. I try to keep any comments to the work being presented unless I get attacked, which seems to be often here. Something I find pretty interesting since I am ALWAYS coming from the viewpoint of a working photojournalist and many times the ones doing the attacking are NOT working as a photojournalist.”

    Well this is a little unfair isn’t it? Considering this is a place for learning and the emerging. But I do sort of get your point but it would be a little like not letting any non-guitarist like or dislike a Led Zep solo because she or he don’t play the guitar.
    Besides half the art world in general would end up without critics…. Most theatre critics, music critics and on and on are never working artists.

  92. JOHN G:

    Here’s wishing you a safe surgery and speedy recovery. I’m sure the doctors will recommend some unsavory lifestyle changes which you will promptly ignore…. (and maybe you shouldn’t but one’s life is one’s life to live).

    Thanks so much for buying the print. FYI I took my cut and put it back into buying a lovely print from Aubrey (boy with photograph). Looking forward to receiving it as well.



  93. Ah, sorry for the omission above — best wishes Gladdy. You’ve got a lot of positive karma going for you.

    But as for Paul’s point about Led Zeppelin guitar solos, that’s not a good analogy at all. In the ongoing photojournalist/non photojournalist debate, the better analogy would be, using the Waltz as a stand in for photojournalism, to someone who simply doesn’t understand what a Waltz is, or even believe in the possibility of the existence of a Waltz, much less its actual existence; but who instead vociferously instead argues that all music is free form jazz, that it could only be free form jazz, and that even if there were theoretically some other kind of music, there shouldn’t be, and that anyone who thinks any different just doesn’t understand the masters of free form jazz, which is kind of redundant since there could be no other kind of masters. Or something like that.

    And since you go on so much about this, Paul, perhaps you should consider studying up on your classic PJ history and ethics. Particularly as David is one of its premier practitioners and has been for a long time. Did you ever take his advice and research the Topeka Capital Journal?

  94. MW…

    Well no I didn’t but I don’t recall David giving me any advice about researching on the Topeka Capital Journal. Somehow it must of gone over my head! I do remember David publicly telling me to get down and study Anders Petersen and HCB and Sightwalk, plus a couple more privately. So sorry no I didn’t!

    But MW what do I go on about so much! I get the impression by your words that you are a little pissed off with the fact! I don’t recall ever dissing anyone round here as I wrote to Pete it’s a genuine interest in why I had the impression he had a hangup with certain styles of photography. I respect Pete, I have nothing against him at all and I’ve always appreciated his views and comments even if I don’t agree with some of them just as much as I appreciate your fine words. I don’t ever get into discussion on photojournalism because I’m the first one to admit I don’t know much on the subject. I’m far more into the artistic side of photography and I think that’s absolutely obvious if anyone looks at my work.

  95. eduardo sepulveda

    I’m in. Absolutely.

    while talking about the money i can’t avoid kind of latin american magic realistic approach on this… I mean, for long long time I’ve been clicking DAH website work in progress section since fresh and cristal clear water is always to be found under Divided Soul, Living Proof , etc… or now I can remember myself running through Living Proof´s pages at Oaxaca´s house with DAH talking to the guys next to me… get one of these books is not that easy round here… I think I don´t need to say much more about feelings of being $2 part of RIO.

    About age and photographic production, well DAH –all due repect- but ur not a kid anymore, u need to realize soon ur no longer 19 y.o. ur about 29 now… please. Let some energy to some so so tired not so young people like me!

    By the way and this is for serious, Chile doesn´t even appear on shipping list of Burn 02…

    All the best BURNIANS.
    JG get well soon.
    Tuned, Eduardo.

  96. Come now Paul, you often make statements to the effect that all photography is personal, that it’s all about the photographer and can’t possibly be about the subject, that there’s no such thing as objectivity, and other similar expressions. I’m not pissed off. It’s just talk and the kind of thing I like talking about at that. Nothing personal.

    Perhaps you missed David’s advice about research the Topeka Journal, I didn’t mean to say it was directed solely at you. But it’s good advice, particularly if you want an excellent study aid for understanding classic photojournalism and its ethics.


    You’ve probably noticed that David mentions the Journalism program at Missouri. J School is not a bad route to go either.


  97. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/06/business/global/europes-two-years-of-denials-trapped-greece.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha25

    “There is simply no excuse for Trichet and Europe getting this so wrong,” said Willem Buiter, chief economist at Citigroup. “It is fine to make default a moral issue, but you also have to accept that outside of Western Europe, defaults have been a dime a dozen, even in the past few decades.”

    If leaders had agreed earlier to ease Greece’s debt burden and moved faster to protect the likes of Italy and Spain — as United States officials had been urging since early 2010 — the worst might be behind Europe today, experts say.

  98. John G!
    you’ll be just fine! you are strong as a bull!
    i do not worry ! u will be fine!
    (the greek oracle spoken:)
    love u bro
    i’ll skype u tomorrow and do arrangments to ship u EVA’s print and of course Charles P’s NIRVANA!

  99. Paul, “I’m far more into the artistic side of photography and I think that’s absolutely obvious if anyone looks at my work.” – nice work.

    Eva, yes; a monthly donation sounds good. Thanks.


  100. PAUL

    I am not talking about not liking a photograph or essay. There is a lot of “artsy” work I like and a lot I dislike. But that is strictly from a visual taste point of view. I can have the same feelings about a lot of photojournalism I see.

    But where I am not qualified to make judgements on technique in the “artsy” world since I do not work in the genre, I do not do so.

    So looking at your analogy, I am not a guitar player (well I have one and used to “play” but lets not even go there. Not one of my better things for sure.) so I may not care for a particular “ZEP” guitar solo, I would certainly not attack the knowledge, abilities or technique of a person that gets paid very well to do what he does.

  101. Pete…

    I was curious about your visual taste point of view and this because I’m usually attracted to the visual more than the underlying message. This probably makes my evaluation of any work pretty unsophisticated but emotion is very very high up in my top priorities/preferences.

  102. Mike R…

    That’s very kind of you. Two years work and foot injury, working my butt off to try and loosen up my style and learn to feel a bit. Sounds simple ever so simple to say but photography really has little to do with lenses and camera and all to do with fear, pain, loving and living. Making my very best try to make it as primal as possible.

  103. John Gladdy…

    Take care and keep safe! I hope you saw my mobile text message this morning!
    Thanks to you, Eva, Anton, Diego and DAH my life changed in Paris, so excuse me if I worry about you, but it’s because I care.

  104. Charles ..
    In the next couple days everything is gonna be taken care of and I’ll be shipping prints this week!
    We are working here non stop!
    Thank you so much for all the love and patience you showed me and Kim !

    And John G! What a pleasure talking to you on Skype once again an hour ago! Missed u man!
    Glad to see your face!Kim says you look good ;)

  105. Pete what you did was present someone else’s content, not your own ( yes you do have a history of using others content). I this instance I responded to the article and disagree with his premise you decide that my response is about what you wrote. You wrote nothing but that you thought it was good, you didn’t even clarify why you thought it was good.
    Then you go and cast seeds of doubt about who responds and now you go whining about how it is about you and it is all unfair.
    Like many here I too did a short PJ stint but decided to take up a completely different non photographic profession.
    Here is some advice Pete start using your own content and if you are posting here you have to live with what you get. remember open sites of this nature are is not yours to change into your personal ideal.
    Now if that is impossible just carry on as you are and bleat your heart out

  106. ( yes you do have a history of using others content)

    ARE YOU KIDDING ME… with people like Panos and Bob Black quoting things there verbatim?

    Stop being a jackass.

  107. This is about your history of direct use and they did not operate as if it is theirs, but I do give you credit for stopping your flogging stuff from burn on your site …….maybe you should post in the same vein as Laura Norén and her analysis of graphic communication. That should put an interesting slant on things.

  108. Unlike you Pete I know I get what I deserve because of what I post being called a jackass is ok coming from the likes of you, casting dispersions on my ability to read is a normal defense by you.

  109. Hey man, listen to Imants once will u!
    I know truth hurts but I don’t mind hating and insulting me..
    That’s your style, that’s what makes u happy !
    Fine! Slap me, diss me, hate me, rape me! People are reading and watching !
    But but but… Leave BOB BLACK alone ok!??
    Keep attacking me ! I’m happy about that , but dissing Bob Black and/or Paul ???????
    Not cool bro!
    Again, listen to Imants once! I know u need attention but change it up a little bit!
    U end up being boring bro! Jealousy is not a virtue! You end poisoning yourself trying so hard poison others!
    Andale, Vamonos !
    Use wisely what’s left between your two ears!

    (English translation: keep attacking me, but leave the rest alone..

  110. LOOK

    First, of all DAH has no problem with me listing posts on The37thFrame. He understands that links are gold when it comes to the internet and SEO. And I asked him right after he launched Burn and he gave his approval.

    Second, in the three years that The37thFrame has been up and running, NOT ONE photographer has ever asked me to remove a link. We are listed on PDN, Vervephoto, duckrabbit, smashing magazine (listed as one of the best photojournalism sites) and The NYT LENS (until they recently took all blog links off their page).

    We get emails all the time from photographers whose work we linked to thanking us. Many post notes on their sites such as Justin Mott:

    “Featured On The 37th Frame – Justin Mott
    Sep 28, 2011 – I’m honored to have some of my old work featured on The 37th Frame: http://www. the37thframe.org/2011/09/legacy-of-horror-by-justin-mott/ …”

    And for the record… I posted something from BURN just a couple of weeks ago.

    You are complaining about something that has nothing to do with you.

  111. Paul, ” I’m usually attracted to the visual more than the underlying message” – I need a message – this leads to the “wow great photograph” of some awful tragedy.

    With regard to the argument; and with a deep bow to Akakay ….. I like the fish.



    Thank you for posting that link… normally I am not especially edified or enthused by the musical video links people put up on Dialog-Comments, but in this case you have won me on all points. I love Erik Satie, I love Camille Pissaro and Gustave Caillebotte, and most of all I love Paris… Jean Beraud I had never heard of, and now I see what I have been missing, and I can’t thank you enough for that introduction. My, he was prolific, wasn’t he? And it’s not all of equal quality, but enough of it is great…

    And good luck with the surgery, my man…

  113. bows back to Mike R…

    AKAKY: Do you know what he’s talking about?

    AKAKY IRL: Haven’t a damn clue, guy. Bow anyway, they may be dangerous.

    AKAKY: You think so?

    AKAKY IRL: I doubt it, but you never know. It’s always better to humor the natives, though. It keeps them happy and it never hurts to be polite.

    AKAKY: This is true.

  114. Not complaing Pete just stating how you use others to bolster yourself and then spread the blame to others if you get found wanting.

  115. Boring?

    “Boring is the new sexy”. I just heard this on the radio a few days ago. (Thank goodness, finally.)

    Today we did our annual count of the Brown Trout nests on the headwater’s of the Humber River. We break up into small groups of six to cover various beats. There are always new volunteers with us, and today Christine and I waded my little Coffey Creek, surveying it along with four of her students. Christine is the Humber River watershed specialist for OntarioStreams; I acknowledge her as the Muse-Goddess of the Humber. She is wise in the way’s of the River, and has experimented tirelessly to improve the health of the aquatic environment. Her current long-range goal is to introduce a healthy population of Atlantic Salmon to the watershed.

    For me, that’s cool. Atlantic Salmon on Coffey Creek is my Eldorado. Before the Europeans arrived, the streams and rivers of southern Ontario were solidly entrenched in the biggest, densest forests of North America. All those trees retarded the rain runoff, and the rivers ran much bigger, and more steadily, than now. Deforestation has led to a wild oscillation of the water levels, and a resultant desecration of the natural habitat. The introduction of sawmills and flour mills on the river meant dams. With dams, the salmon were unable to swim up to the headwaters where the small gravel and pebbles lay claim to riverbeds. No gravel, no nests, no fish. Atlantic Salmon landlocked in Lake Ontario were extinct by the early 1900s. They were replaced with Brown Trout in the early 20th century, and a thriving Brown trout population has existed for as long as I can remember.

    I’ve spent years bringing Coffey Creek back to health. Removing old beaver dams, and deadfall logs that would jam the water-flow, has led to the removal of decades of silt, and the uncovering of the gravel bed. Tree and shrub plantings along the stream banks will eventually offer much needed shade to keep the water cold – or at least cooler. There are now up-swellings of cold water; a renewal of watercress; a return of sculpins, stone-caddis and the very, very beautiful and precious brook trout. These are all indicators of a stream in full health and full bloom. Years of nesting surveys have shown that the health of the Humber is returning, and Coffey Creek is often the creek with the greatest concentration of nests. Coffey Creek has been designated an Area of Natural Scientific Interest; a few years ago, the Humber was designated a National Heritage River, the first in Canada which actually passes through an urban area (Toronto).

    Anyway, today was particularly auspicious. Normally Christine asks me to survey the Creek by myself, but this year she was able to lead the survey. I was delighted to have the students come along, and Christine and I gave them the full tour and lecture, pointing out to them much of the above. Within the creek water table, on Jim’s property, is the oldest, tallest apple tree I’ve ever seen. In the last twenty years, it has been slowly dying, and to me this reluctance to give up may just be an indication of its age. Certainly it must be the tallest in the region; whether it be the tallest in Ontario, or Canada, I do not know. I have no doubt it was in existence when the Europeans arrived, and was lucky enough to survive the lumbering of the 1800s, the charcoal-making of the 20s, and the sandstorms of the 40s. It is the oldest tree in my neighbourhood, and serves as a reminder of what the area once was. I was a pleasure to show it off to Christine’s students, and to Christine herself:



    How about “sex is the new boring!..” ??? (I mean, how much of the infinite quantity of free porno on the web can one ultimately watch and still retain any interest?).

    Thanks for your description of your ongoing activities as a stream caretaker and restorer of salmon habitat. This is a topic near and dear to my heart. In Japan I spent 6+ years of most of my free time and money trying to help the environmental movement there to stop unneeded dam construction on the last undammed rivers which would have destroyed migratory fish populations, most notably (and notoriously) the Nagara River Estuary Dam, which has subsequently destroyed the population of “satsukimasu”, a native subspecies of the Japanese cherry salmon that was unique to that river ecosystem. Despite our failure to stop that particular dam, the movement was successful in bringing about substantial changes to Japan’s River Law (the first time in over 80 years), putting a more substantial environmental assessment system in place, and canceling other destructive dam projects in other parts of Japan, most importantly on the Kawabe River in southern Kyushu.

    Since moving back to North America I have been active from time to time with a very energetic and award-winning local fish habitat restoration group, the Nooksack Salmon Enhancement Ass’n here in the northwest corner of Washington State, doing both dirty and wet grunt work with a spade, and also photo documentary work which I have donated to them. The founder and chief catalyst for this group in fact lives just three doors up the street from me.

    So I not only applaud your efforts but also know right where you are coming from. Keep it up!

  117. Jeff/Sidney; Nice stories! I was lucky enough to spend 3-days with scientists studying whitebait (translucent fry of a freshwater fish). The adults spawn in the estuaries and stream banks; when the fry hatch they head out to sea and eventually return to swim upstream to the bush covered headwater streams to live.

    When they run up the rivers there is an open season for them. The scientists were catching them (minimum of 5kgs of fry); staining them with food colouring and releasing them. We spent the next two days going up and down the river in a boat asking whitebait fishers if they had caught any coloured ones. By doing this they learnt how many escaped; and how fast they travelled. It was great fun!

    I was also fortunate to spend quite a few days with scientists studying the introduced koi; which are a massive pest problem here. We were electro-fishing for them; weighing and measuring them before tagging and release. Funny; they may be scientists; but like any fishermen they still bragged over the biggest ones!

    Australian studies have set a threshold koi carp population density of 450 kg per hectare, but an NZ study has discovered some sites with over 1,600 kg per hectare! Recent surveys have shown that koi may now make up 80-90% of the biomass of some waterways

    They are that much of a problem that the local bow-hunters have a bow-fishing competition for them. In 2 ½ days that shoot over 3 metric tonne of the fish! They all go through a mulcher for burley, cat food etc. I can still see the looks on a couple of Japanese tourists as they saw sacred (in Japan) koi going through a mulcher…..


  118. Jeff,Sid

    I was at Goldstream park near Victoria earlier today and we stopped for a few moments to view the chum salmon run.
    It is always profoundly moving to witness this. For the un-initiated, those horizontal slashes you see in the water are all huge salmon, some still spawning, some dying, some dead. There were hordes of gulls there gorging.

  119. ROSS,

    Three metric tons shot with bow and arrow?? Boggles the mind!


    I can see that some are already dying… soon the whole river basin will smell like a backed-up sewage drain!

    We get chum runs like that here on the Nooksack and Skagit rivers this time of year, too.
    Your picture reminds me of the earlier-in-the-fall runs of humpback salmon I used to see on the streams of northeastern Hokkaido back in the 90s.

  120. a civilian-mass audience

    We are going RIO…where Sex is never boring…oime

    I have never seen in my BURNING years…so many ACADEMIANS in one page…

    Viva Amigos and Amigas…rock on

  121. a civilian-mass audience

    I am not gonna sing…I am busy…new government…

    breaking news every second…hmmm…we are BURNED anyway…oime

  122. Love it!! …of course – I know already I will be on the edge of my seat waiting for each next update. Can’t wait.

    And as for paying a tuition to get fired up and driven crazy? I’d do it again in a heart beat, honored and grateful forever I had the chance to participate. And more than glad to know that cost supports your mission(s). 100% ….And are you sure there wasn’t some actual tiger blood in the morning coffee? :)) It was all so intense, it’s hard to replicate even a portion on my own for sure…but will keep trying to find a way.

    safe travels-
    oxoxo Milli

  123. AKAKY: Did you forget The Fish?

    AKAKY IRL: Wasn’t I supposed to?

    AKAKY: Apparently not. Everyone’s asking about it.

    AKAKY IRL: Sorry about that, but I’ve been wandering around graveyards recently and haven’t been spent a lot of time thinking about seafood.

    AKAKY: That’s all right. I don’t like seafood. It gives me…

    AKAKY IRL: Don’t…

    AKAKY: …a haddock.

    AKAKY IRL: Christ on a crutch, do we have to do this fish pun thing again?

    AKAKY: I’m thinking about it. It’s not everyday a chance to do fish puns comes down the pike.

  124. Paul- Thank you for posting that Buddy Rich clip. As a kid living in Los Angeles, I used to go watch Buddy play with his band alot (at least 4 times) Some of these concerts were very intimate settings.

    ‘There used to be an evening talk show on with Johnny Carson as the host. One evening he had the famed Buddy Rich on as his guest and introduced him as the world’s best drummer. After Buddy Rich got the crowd calmed down, he very modestly said, “No, no. Alex Duthart is the world’s best drummer.”‘

    And thus I have been studying Alex Duthart technical Highland Snare drumming since 2000. Thus the Kilt and Bag Pipe Bands and the many Pints of Beer.

  125. AKAKY: I don’t wanna carp about it, but with a haddock you should go sea a sturgeon.

    AKAKY IRL: Doesn’t it embarrass you at all, plagiarizing Chico Marx like that?

    AKAKY: Not a damn bit. If you’re going to steal, you might as well steal from the best. Otherwise you just go floundering around like a hard of herring guy at a Black Sabbath concert.

    AKAKY IRL: This is going to get worse before it gets better, ain’t it?

    AKAKY: Yup.

    AKAKY IRL: Damn.

  126. AKAKY and Mike R.,

    If you smolts are trolling for laughs, I guess it is OK to give fish the Burn treatment, so long as they don’t char. Normally I would be the sole of discretion, but it you guys get too dacey, you’ll wish it was only a haddock when I give you a sockeye, chum, and knock you off your perch!

  127. I guess I shad have proofread that post… “it” should have been “if” with an “f” as in “fish.” Apologies.
    OK, now I will clam up.

  128. Let’s not forget Jock Sturges who’s work has been accused and condemned by many as thinly disguised underage pornography hiding behind the excuse of fine art.

  129. a civilian-mass audience

    whatever JEFF said…I trust JEFF,I swear!

    VIVA BURNIANS…goodnight from beautiful, broke,BURNING Grecolandiaaaaaaaa

  130. Sidney, IRL: I cod care less if I get into trouble; I have a fairly caviar attitude towards these matters. But I wouldn’t want the two of you in a pickerel.

    Cover your bass; preferably with lemon. Makes the mouth pucker.

    Goodnight, Civilian.

  131. Well, I confess I too am one of the suckers, and I should have smelt ahead of time that the waves of this fish thing would swell out of scale. I’m really saury. Honest, David, we didn’t mean to mussel our way into your school! And I don’t expect that I can skate away without incurring a ray of blame, but if Akaky, Mike R, Jeff, and Michael Kircher are agreeable, I’m ready to cal it “Fin.”

  132. if i were not in such a crabby mood this morning i am sure this would have spawned a more serious response..as it is, i am dealing with sharks in a sea of blood….so i will try to cast a wider net…and try to get upstream …a safe haven…it would be a shame if i or anyone got hooked on this drivel…

  133. Wow David, that sounds ominous. Maybe best to keep one’s mind on snapper and let everything else work itself out.

  134. eduardo sepulveda

    ;) eva

    however, i get allways educated in many aspects, now language and wildlife… urbandictionary helps a lot…

    i’d say ‘pero no pienso echarme al pollo’ in chilean


  135. David,
    I’m in and will support this and any other project where you teach. I never had time to thank you for all the words of wisdom at the LOFT session but trust me it was deeply appreciated. I am in Kyoto now, starting my project, wish me luck and you know you are always welcome here in Japan. Good luck and I will be cheering from here.

  136. No more Bunga-Bunga?! Better Bunga-Bunga than bridges to nowhere or $15 muffins! Has anyone noticed that government waste is more interesting in Italy than it is in the United States?

  137. Actually, I think I will duck the fowl puns because they are all turkeys, I think. You’re just running and puffin trying to think of new ways of taking a gander at things.

  138. AKAKY and JEFF,

    What are you raven about now? OK, I know that I am winging it here, but just for a lark, I will swallow my pride, stop brooding, and dive in, in hopes that this crop of dodo’s will come to a swift end. I don’t mean to snipe at you again, but didn’t I already threaten to swoop down and knock you off your perch? Remember, fowl puns is a game that toucan play! I know your creative flights are cooped up all day and need to soar, but at least please don’t parrot Chick-o Marx again. I worry that this whole blog is heading south and turning into an albatross around David’s neck. He may just say, “Nevermore!”

  139. a civilian-mass audience

    happy birthday to you
    may your vision keep BURNING
    and your future be bright
    may the Universe gives you
    all the things that you want…
    happy birthday dear AUDREY
    please enjoy and have fun…

    your BURNIANS

    P.S and Happy Birthday journeys to ALLLLLLL!!!

  140. a civilian-mass audience

    and EVA,VIVA…this Monday and after (no post office strikes,I hope)…check your mail…
    small envelope…but lot’s of love

    THANK YOU!!!

  141. Uhmmm.. Civi, your offer of an open house is still valid? Might have to take it up.. looks like we’re drowning.. both under water and in debts.. UGH.

    UPWARDS AND ONWARDS… or something like that..

  142. Andrew Steiner (check facebook mail)
    Patricio Michelin (check facebook mail)
    Herve (check facebook mail)
    Matthew Newton (check regular email)
    John Gladdy (regular email)
    Stephen U, (regular email)
    Chuck Farley (check facebook mail)
    Kurt Lengfeld (check facebook mail)
    Patricia Van De Camp (regular email)
    Dominik Dunsch (check facebook mail)
    Gordon Lafleur (check facebook mail)

    John Gladdy (your Nirvana photo and Eva’s print will be shipped by end of week)
    same goes to
    (your K.Lee print will be shipped end of this week)
    Charles P.,
    (your Audrey print will be shipped end of week)

  143. https://picasaweb.google.com/107347686089246288219/Desktop05?authkey=Gv1sRgCMzjvZjhv-PyowE

    again there are two pages with names of photographers participated!

    AND HERE IS some of the tips/ THE SELLING COMMENTS:
    (more to come , but i need to rush to the dentist:(

    1) Matted photos sell higher

    2) Quality of paper counts. Cheap or Glossy paper not as valued as matte

    3) Sells evenly split between b&w and color… no indication that either one “look” sells more


    5) most beloved/preferred PRINT size for customers was medium scale prints (24″X 18″)

    6) Signed editions and more info about print/photo helps everyone tell the story & form connection between print/seller/buyer

    7) the “no theme” Theme actually attracts more clients/art buyers, in other words folks prefer to see a variety of photos than just one exhibition with a central theme (questionable- has to do with demographics)

    8) crazy but true: most customers willing to pay as much as $200 for FRAMING and remember AVERAGE PRINT SALE was $200..so for most customers the frame was as important as the print (still scratching my head over this one)

  144. Thank You All For the Wonderful Birthday Wishes :)))

    Charles P. thank you so much, it means a lot to me…

    *hugs*, audrey

    ps: Panos, please check your facebook email ;)

  145. im still numb but i cant wait to THANK the amazing photogs THAT SOLD and that already confirmed / refused to take their share ,THEY INSISTED THEIR SHARE TO BE DONATED to Burn!nOW thats some pure love!
    So far i want to personally thank :

    CHARLES PETERSON (that put all his share back buying Audrey)
    JOHN GLADDY ( for contributing to the max, buying CP “Nirvana” and EVA print )
    EVA (for contributing also to the max buying K.Lee print)

    some prints still awaiting confirmation , like Andrew Sullivan, Paul Parker , Don Hamerman and myself (my Venice girl buyer backed out last minute-although illegal move- (same story with two other prints..folks bid on them , bought them and then changed their mind)…
    so like i said we ARE NOT DONE YET!
    Done with Gallery but but but,
    i will try another gallery / alternative for another show around xmas for remaining photos and also i will showcase some prints to collectors , driving to their houses showcasing your/my/our work.
    stay tuned..i’ll let u know as we proceed and dont forget not to despair for anyone that did not sell…there is Sidney Australia coming up!

  146. Panos,
    hope you are recovering from the meeting with the dentist!

    Thanks for the feedback mate; next time I’ll follow your advice and send a matted print. I did send quality paper (fukiflex) but it was glossy, picture size only 15 x 10 ” on 18 x 12 paper: live and learn. Next time I’ll send a big, matted print, semi-gloss and signed. With regards to a frame: would it be better for me to send a framed print or could you cut a deal locally to allow customers the opportunity to choose frame style? All this with the proviso that you do it all again of course!

    With regard to Sydney; can we send more photographs or the same photograph(s) but following your guidelines?

    Amazing what you and Kim have done Panos.


    (an ongoing chaotic event…in progress)


    hope i didnt forget anyone!!!!!
    thank youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!

  148. Carlo / Mike R :)
    more info will come in my memory as anesthesia wears off…im tired though…i see now i did a few mistakes, things i could have done better etc.. for example “heavy local advertisement” is a must!

  149. @ PANOS:
    As I said in the FB e-mail. Thanks again!! Now, with all the experience en SA, is worthly to try another gallery in California. Human being grow up with prior errors…uhmm ok, polititians are not human being, ’cause they made the same f(&(*king shit every time without learning.
    So, I’m in for the next Burned exhibition!
    And I’m your fixer for third one…in France or Argentina.

    It’s a wonderful feeling of being tired and lucky.

  150. crazy but true: most customers willing to pay as much as $200 for FRAMING

    Panos, custom framing is extremely expensive, which is likely why customers will pay a premium. It also means they will not have to go through the trouble of doing it themselves. At my portrait studio, the fact that all prints are priced including framing is very appealing to customers.

    Thanks again for all you work Panos

  151. its epidemic and i love it!!!!!!!!!!!

    another GREAT photog that SOLD A PRINT ,


    just confirmed that he ALSO donated his $$ share to burn.. thank you my friend!!
    big hug

  152. I am now a commercial artist! 50 years ahead of my most optimistic previsions, and head to head with Vincent Van Gogh….


    PS: thanks Panos, Kim and all that made the show possible.

  153. I have come down with shingles. They are awful. Pretty painful. Doc says I need to rest. Don’t know how to rest. It hurts too damn much to rest. Hurts too damn much not to rest. Hell. Everything hurts. But I will get over it. In the meantime, don’t expect much from me.

  154. Bill..

    what Gordon says.. plus watch your immune system, vitamines yes, sugar no! Gentle hug.. hope it is at least in some place where wearing clothes isn’t crucial..

  155. a civilian-mass audience

    FROSTFROG…did you say singles or shingles?:)… Well,I have a suggestion:

    relax,relax…your body is trying to tell you something…hmmm,and your soul…
    have a beautiful oatmeal bath…and listen to you…
    it’s not an easy task
    you are a fighter
    a big time Fighter

    ok,FROSTY…time to recoup…WE LOVE YOUUUUUUUUUUU…and you know where to find us!
    Now,give me a smile,I know you can do it…:)

  156. a civilian-mass audience

    PANOS …thank you…cause you have proved me “right” !

    “Believe and act as if it were impossible to fail.”
    Charles F. Kettering (American engineer, inventor of the electric starter, 1876-1958
    a big thank you to KIM,THE DA WOMAN next to YOU

    thank you to ALL my BURNIANS …who believed that YOU can do it
    thank you to MR.HARVEY who believed that you believe that you ALL believed…
    ok…I believe,you got my point

    VIVA BURN!!!

  157. a civilian-mass audience

    “…hope it is at least in some place where wearing clothes isn’t crucial..”

    yes…we are all going to RIO and then SYDNEY…and then to the Greek islands…

    BURN IS THE PLACE TO BE…you proved me “right” again:)!!!

  158. (sorry, i repost coz i typed couple name wrong, sorry for typos)

    panos skoulidas
    November 9, 2011 at 3:19 pm
    (an ongoing chaotic event…in progress)


    hope i didnt forget anyone!!!!!
    thank youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!

  159. Panos,
    I’m learning by what you are finding out so I thank you for sharing! really!!!


    that video of the sharpies is priceless!

    now is time to nag nag nag

  160. Panos..

    Remember, you gotta take out Kim for a drink, aye?

    Most happy that us commentators not only comment, but also commit :)

  161. Michael K..:)
    for the history :two folks wanted your print..but i had it “overpriced” (for the demographics- this SA not LA if u know what i mean right?)
    but i was greedy and thats one of my lessons i learned..i lost two customers, by being too “expensive”..this way i missed the opportunity to let u contribute to Burn even more…when i finally learned my lesson..then i started to sell!….

  162. that does not mean that im an advocate of selling “cheap”..no way!!!!!!!!
    but im not into ripping people off either!!!!
    most important is to know “where u at” at any given moment…
    Gas, food, health services even art is priced different (sells in different prices) in NY or LA or SA or Arta Greece…it depends on the demographics/economy etc..big time!!!

  163. Panos… That’s cool. Nice someone was interested, and I think you handled it just fine. There’ll be other days and other opportunities. Other ways for us all to “contribute” to this fine magazine!


  164. Michael !
    You would love SA river…so many rare types of birds..all protected..u ride your bike next to the river..and they just stare at you..nobodys scared..i like that! so many types of birds..rare rare unseen birds…u would appreciated it here…im sure!

  165. What I really want to know, other than why gasoline is cheaper on the west bank of the Hudson River than it is here on the eastern bank of that very same river, is how I can put them youtube thingies directly onto burn as opposed to just the link. Can anyone enlighten me? I promise not to abuse the privilege. Thank you.

    AKAKY IRL: You promise not to abuse the privilege?

    AKAKY: Yes.

    AKAKY IRL: Liar.

    AKAKY: Shut up.

    AKAKY IRL: Well, I can’t argue with logic like that, guy. I guess you win.

    AKAKY: Thank you.

  166. http://www.eye.fi/press-releases/eye-fi-and-sandisk-launch-co-branded-wireless-memory-cards-in-europe

    MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., September 14, 2011 — Eye-Fi Inc. (www.eye.fi), makers of the world’s first wireless memory card, today announced an exclusive distribution agreement with SanDisk, a global leader in flash memory storage solutions. The relationship combines Eye-Fi’s strong partner ecosystem with SanDisk’s broad retail presence to deliver a co-branded SD™ wireless memory card to consumers throughout EMEA (Europe, Middle East and Africa) .

  167. Panos; Call me old fasioned and a bit of a Luddite but that just seems to be one more thing to potentially go wrong! Simple is good…. I think! But then again; I’m often wrong! ;-)

  168. Bill. Torso or face? Both are bad. I could tell you stories of pieces of my nose falling, or all the teeth[good healthy teeth] in the left side of my jaw just falling out. But hey.
    And I didnt have an immune system and im guessing you do right??
    and laying on a floor for a week in a squat just crying until my girlfriend got me to emergency.
    And the scarring aint so bad so long as you dont look at it too hard.
    …..but you probly dont need the worry.
    Besides I’m still here so it cant be that bad. :))

    Jesus it hurts some though dont it???


  169. John – Torso only. As bad as this is, to have it in the face – utter hell. Yes, it does indeed hurt some. Besides the sting and burn, I would never have expected shingles to simulate a heart attack, in the multiple.

    I’m glad you’re still here. I expect that when this eases off in week or two (I hope) I will still be here, too.

    pAtrIcIO m. – Tried to check it out, but it never appeared.

  170. Bill, me too, so sorry to hear about your suffering, have had close friends go through that hell. Wish you nothing but the best…


  171. Vissaria thank u for posting my father’s picture!
    Tell him Im coming over for Thanks Giving!!! Missed the family
    ( tacky obscure Greek immigrant song from the 60ies plays in the background :)

  172. ALL

    i have not abandoned this audience!! just now in Hollywood working with Haik Mesropian, our Burn master programer, on our upcoming RIO JOURNAL….well, maybe not the title but we are programming another paywall website…might be an interesting model for many if it works..still working in the tech details, exact pricing etc..we will make a lot of mistakes..i always make a lot of mistakes…BUT i think we will have a platform to be really really educational for all of you and really really entertaining too..anything wrong with the combo?

    journals are really old fashioned…but you know what..all the big guys at FB, Twitter, Google, Apple , with all the machines, and they are beautiful machines which i will use, still want simply a good story..people still want to sit by the campfire and hear a good story…and in this case how to build a story, how to survive, how to make a book, how to do your best work living it…i mean living it…Kerouac, Thompson, Steinbeck, Frank…love these guys…cannot do what they did, cause they already did it..but we will have an “influenced by” version and perhaps, as always, a few new twists turns etc etc in storytelling…

    when i go to Rio now and broadcast to this audience it will not be done out of my left hand…it will be the ONLY THING I AM DOING IN RIO…working for you guys….yes, making my book, but my whole team will be set up to make this happen…

    anyway, not here much for comments now…just because i must move on this right now and with gusto…you know me, i do not want to lose the moment or the energy…

    big hugs, david

  173. Educational and entertaining sounds good to me and yes, people still want a good story; it’s as old as … cave painting.


    hey Bill , i am now seeing messages to you about a health problem but i am on the move and cannot figure out exactly what is wrong..anyway, speedy recovery please to whatever is ailing you…..missing you amigo…

    cheers, david

  175. MW – Thank you. Sorry for the delayed response, but I have been taking PANOS advice and have been playing Dr. House and so I am easily distracted. At the moment, I feel very fond of Vicodin.

    DAH – Shingles – a nasty but hopefully shortlived trial. Missing you, too, but, on the good side, today, I was finally able to take the time to remove burn 2 from the packaging and spend an hour or two with it. That was enjoyable. Hope you enjoy Hollywood. At some point, I need to seek advice from Haik.

  176. a civilian-mass audience

    VIVA BURN…good morning from Greece…we have a “government” !
    Italy is next…
    don’t get me wrong,Italy is not Greece…
    in 2070 will be there…oime

    Where are you MY BURNIANS?…I would love to see more reports.
    Los Angeles is BURNING.
    The Universe is BURNING.
    as long as we have the BURNING Spirit…
    we can do miracles…

    Come on BURNIANS…what are you waiting for?…show me what you are shooting…

    FROSTY,I have the perfect chicken for you…her name is koko and she is a healer!

  177. I have it.

    Been looking for it since I first saw Koudelka’s and shortly after Towell’s, years ago..

    Finally found mine.. I try not to ‘see’ pictures of others when photographing, but when I see stray dogs, especially black ones, I can’t help it and the above mentioned photos come to mind.. ever happens to anyone here?

    Anyway.. here is mine.. different..


    Now I can stop taking pics..

  178. Eva…

    Absolutely amazing!! Love it, this is the stuff which is why you should never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never ever put your M7 away.
    BTW I saw your email I’ll try my best and write back tonight or tomorrow. Been awfully busy, but never too busy to make photos.

  179. a civilian-mass audience

    PAUL…thank you…never,ever,never… put your cameras away…

    that’s the spirit…spread the love,spread the news…

    BURN is rocking!!!

  180. MW..ALL

    apologies amigo..did see your idea and photos…but please please get those pictures into submissions …sending me work via email means there is a good chance it will get buried whereas always locked nice and safe in submissions

    a personal email note is cool for me to remind me you put something in submissions but make sure the actual files are in submissions and not only in the email you send to me…

    Michael, we an can chat early next week…i liked that work…

    cheers, david

  181. Arghh, been out of the loop here for a while, but want to say…

    Like many, I wanna see where you go with that ‘in the life’ stuff from Rio! Sounds like something most of us thought about doing (having people following the work, share the ‘behind the scenes’, meet the peeps we meet while on assignment, etc.)! Anyways, waiting to see ;))

  182. Panos,
    Big congrats for the show!

    Not to worry, in a few days you’ll feel better. Though, after too much ‘House’ you might turn into a hypochondriac ;)

  183. Paul..

    Thanks my friend.. not putting down the camera, could not.. but shifting focus and priorities.. ‘see’ you on mail or skype..

  184. Gordon, cool. I love going through old magazines. Thought that oath was funny first time I read it. Realized it’s a poem as well the second time. And it might make a nice project, to go through and take all those verboten photos.

    David, we can chat whenever it’s convenient for you. I sent it to submissions first and then sent a separate heads up email to you and the others. Always the small worry something may get lost in the deluge. Thanks.

  185. It’s all in the big headlines right now, and specially that what they call “pacification” is moving to Rocinha (the hugest and most operating, functioning slum ), we aren’t saving efforts (public money) and framing it in some cinematographic Hollywood war zone style (you all must be following by the photos). The idea of this security initiative is plausible of sympathy and applauses for what that could represent not only for Rio, but the community it’s being settled once breaking the schemes of authority, crimes and hierarchy inside and with the “bad guys”. And changing angles, the authority and hierarchy got in the “good hands”; The police…with free card and all the system validating them. Is that worst knowing the Brazilian police reputation? Will something really change besides of the shooting and lost bullets at long nights? Is the criminal practices ceased ? The theory inside “pacifying slums” is the core for the marketing it’ll be generating to Rio and how it’ll reflect worldwide being a strong, persuasive , pro aspect when people begin to buy the ticket to the World cup and Olympics. None wants to come to an unsafe place known by violence and traffic. But a city where the police has the command and the communities are hading to examples of structure’s changes, peaceful era, stamping police officers in each corner, everyone will be tempted about. The problem in Brazil, the key thought is that nothing is really about the good, they also need to manage the bad, to be sure it won’t have conflicts and assure that if it happens it’ll be covered. Safety, control, security in all the levels. Corruption is the main problem, not the traffic. Manipulation is the engine, and naivety is what makes most of us in Rio sort of puppets. Cause now we have the police , politicians, a well designed chain (and much more profitable) affiliated to share the benefits control practice. Pay those and that, cover that that that, agreements with him and her, having the population believing and responsible for the marketing, we create the curtain and the theatre, we announce the invasion one week before to be sure all the channels will be covering, we pretend everything changes, but the dirty is so much more profound and target of discursion, the schemes that privilege the traffic dealers just got compartmentalize, they got smarter, they organized better between everyone in the bargain with the realization of what we see it’s what we buy. So in the end of the day everyone is happy and Rio assumes a better position in the development ranking , the tourists read newspaper and come, the investments come along. What I’m saying that for me, it’s good that it happened, I’m happy cause I live in Rio, I love Rio and when they ask me where I’m from, I’m the most devotee one standing up for the “wonderful city” and certainly makes me more comfortable and sleep better to buy the idea, to blind myself and to dig compensation . That’s me, living in south zone and contemplating for outside, it’s an easier practical position. Asking the people inside…they’ll also be happy for now, cause the advertisement changed, the fear atmosphere will be minimized , they can call people to visit without bring out so many security measures, warnings, and the embarrassment to be convincing and confident when states “that nothing is going happen” . But I feel those are small fractions of satisfaction, the bottom of the pyramids compared to all the dynamic of the problem…Anyway, it’s better to live like that…at least something is happening , optimism is being felt ,questioned and hopefully it prevails.
    See you all in Rio soon

  186. I’ve read a few articles lately about protesters from Occupy Wall Street physically assaulting photographers. Based on what I’ve seen, this is not at all surprising and I expect it to get much worse. As I’ve previously noted, it seems that at the high end, that is within the committees, the movement is drifting towards authoritarianism. On the ground I see fewer and fewer idealistic young people and ever increasing numbers of very angry young men. I don’t think it’s going to end well. It’s fascinating though. Like a little petri dish of the political life cycle.

    Found myself between projects this weekend so I checked out the card in my walking around camera. Haven’t shown any of these more or less meaningless little sequences for awhile. If you’re interested… here

  187. So I was quite right about nobody buying Koudelka’s Gypsies at my local bookshop! But I didn’t expect to find I couldn’t buy it either, it has been sent back to the publishers. Anyway they’ve promised to order it once again so no worries there. But as a photobook junkie I needed my fix and came across Magnum’s “Contact sheets”. Highly interesting and enlightening big fat tome of a book. I took it to work with me last Wednesday and at lunch break went to the local café, full of your typical tough truck drivers with my large magnifying glass much to the worried look from the three kids from work, they prefer to go unnoticed in such a rough and tough place. Well the book was an all round success and I had practically the whole cafe sitting round taking turns at looking intently with and without my magnifying glass at the contact sheets, whilst I translated into Spanish the stories accompanying each contact sheet. The most amazing thing of all was everyone recognized at least one of the iconic photos in the book and wanted to find out more on each story.

  188. Speaking of books… Out of interest; which books have influenced your work the most? Or; opened your eyes to new ways of shooting? For me; in order over a period of about 4-years.

    Richard Billingham’s “Ray’s a Laugh” That was like being hit between the eyes for someone like me who was only shooting nature stock library stuff. Totally blew me away…

    Bill Allard’s “The Photographic Essay” It first showed me that you don’t have to take photo library style images. Then shortly after David’s “Cuba” It reinforced the Allard book.

    Towells “The Mennonites”; loved the intamacy and compositions. After that it was Bob’s “Bones” and Kyunghee Lee’s “Islands”. Then Sylvia Plachy’s “Self Portrait with Cows Going home”

    Recently? Stanly Greene’s “Black Passport” and Tobias Zielony’s “Story/No Story. Now? Just shooting! :-)

  189. Ross…

    Here’s my list:

    DAH’s Divided Soul and his images he used to post on Roadtrip really awoke something new in me.
    Michael Akerman’s “End of time city” and “Halflife”.
    Robert Frank’s “The Americans”, I used to hate this book now I can’t live without it.
    Chris Anderson’s “Capitolio”, just knocked my eyeballs out.
    Paolo Pellegrin’s “As I was dying”, changed my way of making photos.
    Sally Mann’s “Deep South”, landscape photography has never been the same since I opened that book.
    Anders Petersen’s “..Ich Dich lieben, Du mich auch?”, thanks to Eva’s gift I began to understand how someone by just being honest, close and really caring about one’s subjects can make the most devastating thoughtful photography ever.

  190. “At first, I saw mountains as mountains and rivers as rivers. Then, I saw mountains were not mountains and rivers were not rivers. Finally, I see mountains again as mountains, and rivers again as rivers.”
    Zen proverb.

  191. Oh; I forgot to mention this is really just an exercise in finding new books to buy that I can’t afford! ;-) I’ve also just “discovered” Daido Moriyama; thank goodness his books are too expensive for me to buy! ;-)

  192. mw
    The thirty seven annual is actually bigger than magazine format, spiral bound, lotsa pretty cool classic stuff and some pretty corny stuff too. The American camera magazines, Us Camera, Popular Photography, Modern Photography, used to publish a yearly “annual” full of photos. I had a big collection of them but unfortunately purged them about 10 years ago. Still have about a dozen.

    Penn’s “worlds in a small room” and Avedons “portraits” from the seventies are still my all time favourites from my many photo books.

  193. DAH
    Thanks so much for your comments, support and YOU….
    and you wondered…
    ‘I’m in Hollywood, on the Sunset Strip, with 2 hot women…..’
    only YOU!!!!
    Can’t wait to see Brazil…
    thru your eyes,,,,
    hot and spicy…..

  194. a civilian-mass audience

    I will be back…to sing…Be YOU,be Happy…
    and focus

    I love you ALL…

    your civi

  195. Ross:

    Strangely Familiar by Michal Chelbin. Opened my eyes to a way of photographing people and on spending time with them. After discovering this one I found myself bringing it with me when meeting people. I thought everybody deserved to see it. That good.

    Paris by Robert Frank. Opened my eyes to think in terms of just sketches, plain spontaneity, that there is always something out there. I can look through that book and find myself surprised by some photograph, ‘was that one there last time I looked through it?’.

    1985-2003 by Gregory Crewdson. He has a dark side that I like and I can appreciate his ambitious film sets. Very dramatic light.

    Deep South by Sally Mann. Dark and beautiful. (I didn’t see Paul had also chosen this one – at first.)

    Magnum Magnum. Found this at the library last month and I ejoy the concept of the photographers writing about each other and selecting from each others work. I skipped all the dry bios – just enjoyed the personal texts and the variety of all the subjects.

  196. @ ROSS and PAUL:
    Agree with both of you! I will add to that list: “Satellites” of Jonas Bendiksen, “Odo Yakuza” from Anton… “Errance” from Raymond Depardon. It’s a pity that it is not translate to english (just in frech). It speak about “roaming and wandering” in life/photography and the meaning of that. The narrative is just amazing.
    In winter, the best way to get hot is entering a good bookstore and remaining there until the security guard kick you out :-)


  197. mw – about OWS and media/photogs and hostility – yes, the tensions continue to mount. One young man that I am friendly with who I have photographed a couple of times now carries a sign saying “photographs $20” and he got into it yesterday w 2 big burly press photogs who took his pic and of course didn’t pay. Press guys were screaming “I don’t need to give you anything.” police were in between, protestors screaming at photogs. I sat back and then talked w the guy after, he isn’t entirely serious about the money tho some have paid, it is more to stop people from photographing and also to make them think about why they are snapping away like the people are animals in a zoo. Another guy i know quite well apparently got physical w a photog a few weeks back while he was a bit under the influence, pretty ugly. Didn’t make any photos worth keeping yesterday bc the vibe was just dark and off. I seem to have earned some immunity as a photog who has been there and associates w protestors so much, but even still, it felt wrong to be shooting yesterday and it showed in the shots I did take. Many of the people sleeping there are tired/sick and burned out, and of course some of these people have no other home, and are somewhat at odds with the GA.

  198. Erica,
    I haven’t been down there for a while (been away too often -and never felt I could do a whole lot of really interesting images), but this ‘shift’ has been in the making’ for a long while now… A month ago already, shooters were asked to ‘walk and stop taking pictures’. I mean, isn’t it obvious that -aside from the weather factor- most of the guys are now tired and fed-up: they want things to really change but nothing seems to budge?… The movement is going nowhere fast enough while hundreds/thousands of photogs and tourists have been shooting OWS for close to 2 months now. Some of them have their face in a lot of papers/mags around the world… It’s no surprise that a huge chunk of the ‘first protesters’ are gone, most have just abandoned… Not easy to be there while nothing seems to change (especially when you have cameras in your face all day).
    Maybe now’s the time for a new story to develop from all this energy?… Maybe there’s gonna be a ‘second wind’ for the movement -like the one happening right now in Spain…

  199. PS: I’m sure that you’ve spent enough time shooting there (and making enough friends along the way -like you always do ;) to follow the story and, in time, show us interesting images. I sure am one of those waiting to see your essay!

    Best, Tanguy.

  200. Tanguy – I had an assignment the other night that brought me inside the OWS HQ offices – and, tho this is a convo better had in person – there is a serious movement going on. Perhaps somewhat disconnected from the park, but full force.

  201. ERICA

    i must say, i have been totally disconnected from the OWS movement except as a reader of newspapers, watcher of tv etc…so, i guess i know what the “movement” is against….all things i can understand…i am just trying to figure out what they want to DO…anyway, anxious for your final report…i was guessing, just uneducated guessing, that this was all going by the wayside..over soon…we have all seen street protests come and go, come and go….but you seem to indicate otherwise…let’s chat about your work again soonest…

    cheers, david

  202. MW

    we are not doing a very good job of communicating…NOT YOUR FAULT…mine…i have been scrambling like crazy to get to Rio…seems like it should be simple enough…but like many thinks in life, always more complicated than it seems..no point in boring you with my sordid set of details!! for one thing, setting up the RIO website has been a full on thing that seems like it shoulda coulda woulda been easy….anyway, i like your new york work…we can chat by skype soonest…or rather maybe best after i am actually on location Rio..work for you??

    cheers, david

  203. David, thanks again. I have no complaints. Having some sense of how busy you are, I hesitate make any claims on your time. But of course I will make myself free to chat at your convenience. Whatever works for you works for me.

    Regarding OWS, I had hoped to go to the eviction but unfortunately left my phone in the living room last night and missed the alerts. Wasn’t really thinking of it as a photo op, more as a witness to some kind of history. Erica is much, much closer to it than I am, or have ever been, but from what I’ve seen I suspect she is right. Leaders have emerged. Lessons, one presumes, have been learned. Zuccotti’s time was over by a few weeks at least. The police probably did them a favor. The best way to kill the movement would have been to let them fester all winter, become poster children for extreme poverty and disfunction. Now, the Zuccotti chapter can be deemed a success and they can move on to the next phase of the adventure.

  204. Oh, and speaking of sordid details, I too love the vibe of Hollywood Boulevard in the wee hours. We went there on a field trip for the very first photo class I ever took. Think I scanned one of those old photos awhile back. Will try to dig it up later. Have continued going off and on over the years when in L.A. Don’t do much of anything. Just walk around, have a fake Tommy burger, soak up the weirdness.

  205. Police just gave the OWS protesters exactly what they needed. A new rallying cry to re-unite everybody, and the potential for nightly confrontations to keep them in the news.


    When is good for you to Skype? Been trying to connect, but to no avail. I know you are busy, and I don’t want to be a pest.

    This IS different than a street protest movement. There are some serious thinkers involved here, and they have long term goals. Interesting group.

  206. I see that Da Mare has finally bestirred himself to action and evicted the carnival from Zuccoti Park. When last I saw the evictees on the television, they were wandering around lower Manhattan like the Children of Israel shuffling through the wilderness of Sinai searching for the Promised Land. What really amazes me though is that these people were camped out in lower Manhattan for two months and they never got around to occupying anything except the park, which is nice, of course, but Zuccoti Park is not the economic engine of the evil 1% these people don’t have much use for. And now they are gone from the park, at least for a little while, wandering and waiting for Charlton Heston to arrive and part the traffic going down into the Holland Tunnel so that they may go uptown and protest whatever it is they are protesting and smiteth the 1% on both hip and thew. And all of the congregation of the Lord crieth loudly, Amen!

  207. @ PANOS:
    Yeah, California! Warm weather, sunset, Red Hot Chili Peppers and twilight images! Wish to be there…
    Here in France, entering the winter period… need to switch my mind and accept this season… hard at the beginning, then OK.
    Hope you are shooting ’cause TV is really boring without NBA…


  208. “I must lose my safety when making photos. Oh I’m always scared as hell but I’m not scared of being scared.”
    Anders Petersen

  209. I don’t know about you, but I wonder sometimes where the cows have gone to when someone tells me that I can wait till the cows come home. I never thought of cows as being a particularly adventuresome lot; they strike me as being a sort of homebodyish species, if homebodyish even counts as a word, and not at all given to the sorts of adventures your average American bison might think normal. And I know that cows used to have all sorts of adventures out West; like any American boy of my generation, I grew up watching my share of John Wayne movies and so I saw the Duke and his troop of cowboys move cows from one place to another more times than I can remember right off the top of my head.. But I didn’t really think about where the herd was going and neither, I suppose, did the herd. It’s bad enough to get a bit part in a Hollywood epic when you have bigger plans for yourself; finding out that you and your part, and your parts as well, get smaller and smaller in Upton Sinclair’s The Jungle would really be upsetting, especially since the hero of the story isn’t you but some dumb Lithuanian who should have stayed away from Chicago if he didn’t want the forces of inhumane capitalism to oppress the hell out of him in the stockyards. Still, at the beginning and end of the process, you would still get some screen time—first, as one of Wayne’s stampeding herd; no cowboy epic is complete without the cows go wild like girls on Bourbon Street during Mardi Gras and run off in all directions for no apparent reason; and second, as a Quarter Pounder with Cheese in a McDonald’s commercial; but in the long run it’s probably not much of a consolation one way or the other. Nobody really wants to grow up to be a comestible, no matter how much of an American staple you may be.
    In the time between their birth and human digestion, however, the cows must go somewhere or otherwise you wouldn’t have to wait for them to come home. And given that there’s always a bit of a wait involved, those cows must be off doing something interesting while they wait for their number to come up in the abattoir. I haven’t seen any statistics on the rate of bovine tourism recently, but it seems to me that this must be a growth industry, especially for travel agents whose traditional business has suffered so much from the Internet. For travel agents cows are the perfect customers; they prefer to travel everywhere in groups, which means a big commission for the agent, and to date no computer company is offering a keyboard big enough to accommodate hooves, so unlike humans, cows have nowhere to go unless they book with an agent, creating a win-win situation for the agent looking to expand his customer base beyond the usual computer illiterates.
    So where do cows go on vacation? As they are herbivores, I like to think that they are drawn to pastoral scenes, to places like Gettysburg, for example, where they can walk the paths of heroes and calmly graze on the vegetation in the Wheat Field and the Peach Orchard and contemplate the sacrifices made for liberty in those hallowed places. Or they might go on genealogical expeditions out to the West, seeking out the places where their ancestors made the long drive north along the Chisholm Trail from Texas to Abilene. The movie fans amongst the herd could even point out the points of cinematic interest, the places where John Wayne or Randolph Scott almost lost the herd in a great stampede, or where the Indians or cattle rustlers tried to use the herd as a shield to creep up on the heroes and do them in [this rarely worked, of course; the cows would get nervous and stampede and the only person the bad guys would actually kill would be the cook at the chuck wagon whose food nobody liked, but who would go down defending his lousy beans and grits in a blaze of gunfire and culinary glory like a true American hero]. The calves might even do a re-enactment of a great stampede if they’re in the mood for it, although I imagine that their parents would probably tell them to stop running around like crazy kids before they hurt themselves; parents are like that, you know.
    How the cows get from the one place to the other, I couldn’t really tell you; it strikes me that cows are great hikers, so they might choose to walk the distances between the sites of particularly interest to them. Hiking is good exercise, no two ways about it, and cows can eat whatever is growing by the side of the road so they don’t have to factor in the cost of restaurants in their travel budgeting, and let’s face it, nobody likes having to factor in the cost of tips for bad service; it’s one of the really annoying things about any kind of travel planning. Hiking also lets your average herd of cows to get off the interstate highways and really see the country up close and personal, something too few people do nowadays, and lets the herd avoid the embarrassment of having the TSA feel them up at the airports. Cows are sensitive that way.
    In the end, I have no objection to cows going off somewhere every now and again. Travel expands one’s horizons, leads to greater understanding of the world and one’s place in it, and for the cows, means putting off the day when they wind up on the ineluctable bun with the side order of French fries. What I do object to is my having to put my life on hold until they get back from their gallivanting about. I see no particular reason why I should have to wait for the cows to come home to do anything I think necessary, nor do I ever remember voting on a proposition that gave cattle the right to be the final arbiter of what I do with my time. I’m sorry, I realize that this is very small-minded of me, but sometimes a person has to be small-minded. If you don’t look after your own interests, no one else will look after them. That’s just the way things are here in this our Great Republic.

  210. AKAKY IRL: I swear to Christ, if he says it again, I’m going to kill him.

    AKAKY: It really is annoying.

    AKAKY IRL: It’s getting on my nerves now.

    AKAKY: You want me to try to talk him out of it?

    AKAKY IRL: I don’t care how you do it, I want him to knock it off.

    AKAKY: I’ll try.


    AKAKY: Look, guy, would you please stop doing that? It’s getting annoying…



    AKAKY IRL: No, I didn’t have to shoot him; I suppose I could have hit him with a large rock instead; but I’ve found as I’ve gone through life that there’s nothing that really draws your attention to the situation at hand like a sucking chest wound. And stop worrying about your shoes; you needed a new pair anyway.


    AKAKY IRL: I don’t know why you keep stating the obvious instead of calling for an ambulance. And no, I am not out of my mind. I shot a guy who was running for mayor of Pompeii. I’ll just tell the jury he attacked me with a pail of water because he thought I was Mount Vesuvius and he wanted to stop the eruption.

    AKAKY: You’ll never get away with this.

    AKAKY IRL: Sure I will. OJ did and he was an open and shut case.

    AKAKY: I don’t believe it, I don’t believe it, I don’t believe it…

    AKAKY IRL: Okay, you don’t believe it. Now call 911 before the poor schnook croaks.

  212. a civilian-mass audience

    Whatever happens in Paris…does stays in Paris?!

    Whatever happens in LA…does stays in LA?!

    oime…I was out searching for my chickens and what do I see…no reports…hmmm…

    as AKAKY says…”I don’t believe it, I don’t believe it, I don’t believe it”

  213. a civilian-mass audience

    and as AKAKIUS says…”I don’t know about you, but I wonder sometimes where the cows have gone to when someone tells me that I can wait till the cows come home.”

    yes, where did the cows go…?:))))))))))

  214. a civilian-mass audience

    GORDON…AKAKY can chew his arm…I would suggest the left one…hiii…

    maybe this way…I will have a chance to celebrate too…:)))))))))))))))

  215. a civilian-mass audience

    EVA,VIVA…Greek post office confirmed …small envelope(beige in color) will be there… latest Monday

    Freaks,I could have crossed the waters…oime,oime…:(

  216. a civilian-mass audience

    I am getting ready for Thanksgiving…so many people to say THANK YOU…

    and now BURNIANS…what are you shooting?
    I know you are all over the Universe…I am busy too…BURNING project is coming,
    can’t say more…
    as EMCD says…What are you shooting,MY BURNIANS?

  217. a civilian-mass audience

    yes,we need BURNIANS to report from RIO…we want up,close and personal

    I am ready to sign in…JEFF,your birthday is coming…maybe I sign in for you…hiii


    RIO hot,RIO bad,RIO will be BURNING
    Oh my Spirits…here we come!!!

  218. ALL

    sorry for no time with everyone here….packing for Rio, paying taxes, figuring out who will feed my cats, paying tardy bills, and working with Haik to get set for our little paywall experiment..we are going to have the RIO button that you see now on at the top of Burn live today or tonight i think…some will want to be really smart and wait until they are sure i am actually in Rio..might be a wise choice, but barring late flights and all the other stuff that can go on with routine travel , i am on my way tomorrow night..due to arrive in RIO 11am on Friday …i will start reporting right away…there will be a post here as well…Burn will be as normal…i am all set with stories to post….Anton and Diego worked hard to make sure everything was set in the slide program…i will be posting most of what i do in Rio on the pay wall site…but i won’t forget those who for whatever reason would rather be here on Burn for free…stay here and for free you will still get a lot…but come to the pay wall and you will get a month long workshop for two bucks…i promise you this will be something special..i cannot and will not make light of this new challenge…ok, back to work..

    cheers, david

  219. a civilian-mass audience

    don’t we ALL love MR.HARVEY…?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    We are going RIO…where do I pay…I want first class ticket to hot,bad and beyond…
    and if a Greek one CAN do it,then everyone CAN DO it…

    BURN me in…

  220. Safe travels!
    can’t wait for this experiment as you call it….i’m really looking forward to this!!!!
    and for 2 bucks $$$….wholly cheesus…..

  221. @ DAH:
    Buen viaje! and stay safe in Rio… looking forward the experiment. Hope that RIO – Hot button does not “TILT” so often, ’cause, I’m pretty sure that it will have so, so many “clicks” in few hours…
    Long life to that button :-)
    Long life to DAH!
    Long life to Haik, Anton, Diego, and every burnian in the surface of the globe!!

    Burnmagazine is far from crisis! Burnmagazine has an inmense amount of momentum!
    Take a look to DAH 2011 motion: Korea, Paris, Toscana, Amsterdam, Perpignan, New York, Hollywood, Riox2, and many many more to come. World Crisis can’t even dare to stop that! :-D

    Love ya All

  222. maybe I should have waited for these wise words??

    “some will want to be really smart and wait until they are sure i am actually in Rio..might be a wise choice”

    what the heck…it’s a done deal!

  223. David:

    As promised, I’m in. On the front-line!

    Everything worked effortlessly – including the fact I had to renew my Paypal. All for a $1.99 workshop! ;)

    Also – love the opening image. A license to: be hot? be bad? to kill – er, I mean, to shoot?

    All the best to you.

  224. a civilian-mass audience

    “Long life to that button :-)
    Long life to DAH!
    Long life to Haik, Anton, Diego, and every burnian in the surface of the globe!!”

    yeah,PATRICIOM…VIVA to ALLL!!!

    and FROSTY,JOHNYG…and others,I need update…you know me…I love reports:)))

    I am going out…Athens will be rocking today!

    Safe travels …cause the journey is what is all about IMO…

  225. Hey DAH…

    I will gladly send you double the cost of RIO if I can avoid using PayPal. ? ;^}

    (I realize that’s probably not the most convenient thing for you right now, but just thought I’d check.)

  226. David, I just tried to pay for the Rio trip but it seems to only allow to pay by PayPal. I don’t have or want a PayPal account; can I pay by credit card?

    If there is no provision for this can I (others) just make a $1.99 donation to Burn and add “for Rio” in the info box?


  227. Even if willing to use paypal: during the past two hours I could not make any payment and was redirected to the Rio-website from paypal… Does that only happen to me???
    Have a good day everybody, Dominik.

  228. Same here, Dominik.

    When it comes to checking out, I can log on to paypal, but then get the following message: “At this time we are unable to process your request. Please return to Burn Magazine, Inc. and try another option.


  229. @ THOMAS:

    If the problem persists, the last option that you have is… going yourself to RIO!!
    Uhmmm, escaping grey skies and German winter looks interesting.

    Patiente is the key. The problem will be solved…

  230. Just got back from Zuccotti. Place is hoppin today. Wish I could have taken the day off and worked it. Perfect weather for my sensibility. Though I trust others have it well covered. Never seen so many cops. Must be at least 200 surrounding the park in riot gear. Many hundreds more around downtown. Eight guarding the frigging statue of the bull. Our tax dollars at work!

  231. a civilian-mass audience

    and where are MY BURNIAN LADIES…

    Can we have some updates from OUR LADIES???

    BURN IS HOT…BURN is the place to BE!!!

  232. a civilian-mass audience

    Happy B-day JEFF
    happy B-day JEFFREYYYY
    bring the cake over here
    cause the ouzo is on meeeee

    Please enjoy the BURNING sound of my singing…oime,I am out of here…
    what am I saying?…

    hiiiiiii(laughing all the way …to RIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO)

    Fat lot of good it does him now.

    Kinda good news,bad news.
    Good news. You’re in Magnum. Bad news. We can’t tell you

    I’m sure someone with more insight into Magnum can provide a more informed point
    but the whole idea of representing these images seems a little opportunistic to me.

    Does this send a signal that Magnum might be opening the doors to representing specific bodies of work,
    that fit their vision, by photographers not necessarily represented by Magnum?

  234. Well it has been a crazy few days for OWS. I had been shooting the day of the raid at Zuccotti, returned home sort of late, got to bed around midnight when word went out that the raid had started. I was out of bed and back by 1:15 I think, but park was closed already with no access for blocks. it was a long night on the streets as I am sure most of you know by now, but a vivid memory for many. The police force was over the top in my opinion, including toward journalists and the whole thing of freezing accredited press people out of the park was too much. I stayed and photographed till everyone reconvened in Foley sq. but had to sleep and missed Duarte square. Then back again that afternoon. The next day was quiet, post eviction – but then yesterday morn at 7 am there was the blocking of the NYSE and that proved to be a powerful, exhilarating but also high in arrests and a fair shake of police force. Then the rally in Foley which was so mainstream and organized, leading into the crowded but peaceful walk across brooklyn bridge – NYPD estimates 32,500 protesters marched. So needless to say I am tired, my body is sore (was shoved, stomped, grabbed by police but am fine or will be after a massage and rest). And I managed to not get arrested. The shooting conditions can be really tough but hopefully I have a meaningful essay.

    I just don’t know if I should stop, or what is on the horizon. Essay wise – with the mainstream addition at Foley it does seem like I can stop if I want to as my essay will be reflective of the ‘early days’ of whatever the movement morphs into. And my second, tighter piece is definitely done because it focused around the camps and tent life.

    So DAH, yes, I know you are on the road but am just getting my edits together, do let me know if you want to check in about it.

  235. John yes i did SEND ALL THE PRINTS OUT….so far only the domestic (inside the US) ones made it (i think CharlesP got a print in Seattle) ..
    i believe that you in London and Eva in Italy should expect the prints ..mid next week (if not earlier)…

  236. Seeing as this is burn and we are all friends here I’ll ramble on a little more :) I was just thinking how shooting something like this – so far out of my norm – was really great for me and that I’d recommend doing a 180 to anyone else. I think sometimes it feels as if we should only do what we are best at, but I feel like I have really grown as a photographer in the last two months and that the lessons learned will carry over into the old me even if I don’t pursue this tact – which I may or may not do. I am not saying that all of a sudden I became fantastically adept at this new way of shooting, but the mere act of repeatedly seeing in new ways, of shooting under vastly different situations and in trying day after day to pull something together from this one happening that everyone seems to agree was incredibly difficult to photograph creatively even without the violence, has been a tremendous gift, even if that doesn’t show in the work.

  237. ERICA,

    I for one think it is wonderful that you have thrown yourself into this project of involvement with the OWS encampment and have tried hard to adapt to a whole new way of shooting, and I too am really looking forward to whatever you will show us from your time there.

    Even if in the long run you go back to doing work similar to what you have done up until now, the odds are it will be better, deeper, and broader, and with even more conviction. And, who knows, this may even be a whole new departure for you in terms of style of shooting… too early to tell, of course. But it’s great that you had the space in your life and work and the open-minded attitude that allowed you to plunge into this…

    Your accounts so far, combined with the news I have been seeing and reading, remind me a lot of the Columbia University building occupations back in the spring of 1968 (in which I was a very active participant) and all that went on in and around them… this experience will stay with you from now now and will probably change how you see the world… which will then change your photography as well. So glad you have been one of the people on the front lines sending dispatches to people far away like me.

  238. Hi Erica, Occupy Windsor has been the total opposite of OWS…we are the ‘respectful and peaceful’ Occupy. We may also be the last ones standing after the weekend…joking. But I think the movement is worthy of historic coverage, it goes beyond a protest. My experience of about 29 days shooting is: the general assemblies are most interesting in terms of running a protest, it’s interesting to see how young people give protest a crack (I’m 52, most of the people here are around 25 and how they do it is so different from how ‘we’ did it)and most revealing of all, at least in this little city, is the ongoing challenge of assisting the homelessness and mentally ill, those ‘broken’ people who have fallen through our social security net…I pitched a group story about the Occupy Movement to David in October…there are many Burnians covering it…but maybe the time is good now to consider a group essay or at least one iconic work by someone…Doug

  239. Carlo – thank you :)

    Sidney – I can see you at Columbia U. – and I do think some of the younger set at OWS here didn’t totally grasp in the early weeks that this could be historically important. In fairness, I think many didn’t and I dragged my feet for the first week it was happening because I was busy and had to make the space in my life/work. Really, I first went because I knew how badly burn’s Katia wished she could be there and could not; so I went with her in my heart. Thank you for the photo process/growth related thoughts.

    Doug – Occupy Windsor – how fantastic. It sounds as if you there have it a bit more together than NYC did with regard to assisting the homeless and mentally ill. We had one group – Picture the Homeless w a presence but the interface between them and the GA was slow to take hold in my opinion.

  240. I suppose it had to happen sooner or later, and like all such phenomena bound to happen sooner or later—things like root canal with inadequate anesthesia, an IRS audit with an incompetent accountant, or having a pack of starved hyenas devour your intestines while you watch come immediately to mind—most of us here were hoping that this would happen much, much later rather than sooner. Alas, like all such hopes, it was not to be. Yes, Mr. and Mrs. North and South America and all the ships at sea, let’s go to press: the headline today—THE OCCUPY WALL STREET MOVEMENT HAS COME TO OUR HAPPY LITTLE BURG!!!

    None of us is quite sure why these people came here in the first place; our happy little burg is not a center of global capitalism by any stretch of the economic imagination. Neither are we a hub of global political power nor do we have any sites of world-shaking historical importance. In short, nothing has ever happened here that would cause anyone to want to occupy us. Given these facts, most of us here assume that the occupiers tried to shut down the Vampire State’s rail network and wound up on the 9:27am train by mistake. Having gotten here, we think they just decided to occupy whatever was nearby, one place being as good as another. At least, that’s what makes the most sense to us.

    At first, no one knew what to make of them; a good many people thought the circus had come to town, while most others paid them no mind at all. The occupiers arrived on the day of the Homecoming Parade and the good folk of our happy little burg have little inclination to listen to the woes of the starving upper classes when there is something as important as high school football going on. But the high school kids, as inclusive a bunch of teens as you’d ever care to meet, God love them, told the occupiers that they could march up Main Street with the rest of the parade. And so it was that the occupying movement came to town, marching behind the flatbed truck with the junior varsity team on it and chanting slogans when they weren’t diving for the candy the JV team and cheerleaders threw to the kids on the sidewalk. The occupiers even tried to shout down the high school’s marching band as they passed the reviewing stand, but that was always going to be an exercise in futility. As is the case with most high school bands, our band does not well, to put the matter politely, and compensates for their lack of any discernible musical ability by playing their instruments very loudly, in the hope that volume will cover a multitude of musical sins. It doesn’t, not by a long shot, but everyone pretends not to notice.

    And this worked, for the most part, our local gendarmerie reporting only one untoward incident during the Homecoming/Occupy Our Happy Little Burg Parade. The incident occurred as the occupiers marched past Don German’s Hair Cut & Hand Gun Emporium. As the occupiers went by, Don German Martinez Rodriguez, the proprietor of the establishment, started shooting at the occupiers with a 9mm Glock automatic pistol. Apparently, the sight of so many Che Guevara tee-shirts angered Don German no end; Don German is a native of Havana and regards the words Fidel Castro, Satan, Communism, and several words referring to the reproductive and excretory organs of the human body not merely as interchangeable cogs in the great machine of the Spanish language but actually the same thing. Given this background, it is not surprising that Don German has no use for the late Mr. Guevara or any of his tee-shirt wearing acolytes either. The occupiers scattered when the shooting started, scattered at slightly less than light speed according to some people who saw them scattering, most of them convinced, no doubt, that their short sojourn outside the comforting cocoon of blue America had led them into the more unsavory parts of Deliverance, and they all looked a bit sheepish when they realized that the spectators were laughing at them. Don German may have wanted to kill large numbers of godless Communists, but his wife, the always formidable Dona Carmen, always makes sure that her husband’s personal Glock is loaded with blanks. This is something of an open secret hereabouts, with no one telling Don German so as not to offend his sensibilities; even the cops know about the blanks, which is why they did not arrest Don German or do anything to stop the faux fusillade. A man waging his own personal crusade against the forces of communistic evil does not want to think that his own wife is sabotaging his efforts in order to keep him from hurting himself and others; some things are too galling for a proud man to think about and this is one of them.

    As the occupiers passed City Hall Park, they veered off in order to get themselves organized, to the extent that a mob of anarchists can call itself organized, and while they were there discussing how to organize themselves someone made the decision to occupy the park and there stage their protest against whatever it is that they are protesting against. I wish I could give a more accurate description of their cause or causes, but most of their demands struck me as a sort of Anarchists for Greater State Control of Damn Near Everything, which causes the same cognitive dissonance in me that watching a fat man about to undergo his fifth quadruple bypass operation celebrate the culinary joys of eating six Big Macs a day with the accompanying supersized order of French fries and a vanilla shake does. It could happen, I suppose; French fries are a good thing, except when the kid at the fryer overcooks them. There are people who enjoy burnt to a crisp fries, but I am not one of them.

    The occupiers reached City Hall Park at about 1:30 in the afternoon and began their drumming almost immediately; percussion seems to be a distinguishing characteristic of this generation of revolutionaries manqué; and they kept up the banging until they realized that there was no one around to listen to the banging. For those of you who do not keep up with these dispatches from our happy little burg, let me repeat a point I’ve made before: the crew of wise yet peculating malfeasants who govern this place do not meet in their chambers at City Hall, as the building itself is a local symbol of just how dumb politicians can be if you give them half a chance. No, our local mob of solons meets and governs, if you can call it that, our town from the much more congenial environs of Gallagher’s restaurant five blocks away. The only city employees who use City Hall on a semi-regular basis are the cops, who use the holding cells in the basement when there isn’t enough space for the local criminal element in the men’s room of Dunkin’ Donuts, the police department’s unofficial headquarters on South Chapel Street. As the local criminal element isn’t very big, the cops don’t need those cells very often.

    That, I think, is what brought matters to a head in the occupiers’ encampment. They were prepared to endure the oppression of the fascist police and the moral opprobrium of the employable classes, but not the complete indifference of the denizens of our happy little burg. Clearly, they had to do something to shock the citizenry out of our false consciousness and into a more revolutionary mode of thought. To this great end, the general assembly of the Occupy City Hall movement decided that the first step to raising our collective consciousness would be for the movement to leave City Hall Park and occupy Johnston Field instead. For those of you who neither know nor care, Mr. Hastings P. Johnston was a prominent local businessman and former mayor of our happy little burg, and we can skip the rest of the biographical details; he is important here only in that you should know that our high school football team plays its home games at the field named in Mr. Johnston’s honor in 1955.

    Having successfully covered the distance between City Hall Park and Johnston Field in the time it took me to write the previous paragraph, even if they did go a block out of their way to avoid Don German’s establishment, the noisome mob of occupiers pushed their way past the front gates and into Johnston Field without paying the three dollars admission, unfurled their banners, and marched past the goal posts in the visitors’ end zone and out into the red zone, chanting ‘we are the 99%’ and ‘whose field…our field!’ Some of their number headed directly for the refreshment stands and demanded free food from the cafeteria ladies, whose cooking at the football games is always much better than it ever was in the school cafeteria, but that could be my memory playing tricks on me again.

    This intrusion of the profane into the sacred space of high school football caused the reaction one should expect in all cases where the profane intrudes upon the sacred—there was a long, a very long, moment of stunned silence as the gathered worshippers attempted to process the enormity of the blasphemy the occupiers had committed in front of them, and then a prolonged shriek of outrage and horror that did affright the very air of our happy little burg. A moment later the supporters of both teams poured out of the stands in a great raging tsunami and onto the field, there to beat the crap out of those obnoxious little punks.

    The lead element of the occupiers had just reached the thirty-five yard line when the first wave of our stout yeomen fell upon them. The results were not, by any standard, pretty. The violent among the occupiers—the anarchists, the black masked communists, the nihilists—a cohort used to dealing with the professional repression of the police, tried to resist as they took the full weight of the assault by flag-bearers, parents, children, Republicans, two chapters of the Knights of Columbus, at least one Elk, football players, the high school marching band, with the sousaphone players doing good service that day, cafeteria ladies, and orthodontically perfect cheerleaders with big breasts and pom-poms. Confronted on all sides by symbols of AmeriKKKan imperialism and corporate plutocracy, the occupiers finally cracked and ran for their lives. I heard that some of these poor benighted wretches didn’t stop until they reached the river and then they tried to swim over to the slough of urban despond directly across the river from our happy little burg. It was a good thing that someone had the common sense to call the Coast Guard and have these dopes picked up out of the river; I don’t think the fish care to have the occupiers in their river, fish having better taste than some people I could mention.

    In a related bit of news, there seven occupiers missing in action, or so the occupiers claim, and they claim that the police are holding them incommunicado. This is not true, as our local constabulary couldn’t find incommunicado on a map if their lives depended on it, and in the interests of full disclosure, I should point out that I did see some of the cafeteria ladies dragging some occupiers onto a school bus and then beating them senseless in there. I suspect that these are the same people the occupiers claim the police have stashed incommunicado, although I also suspect that the people involved would rather be in a cell somewhere. I always wondered what the mystery meat in the cafeteria’s meat loaf was when I went to school; the general opinion of the student body at that time was that the gray pulpy stuff under all that ketchup was stray cat, dog, or possibly even rat meat. This generation of high school students will be getting something a little bit different for lunch, I guess.

  241. AKAKY IRL: Uh-oh, you’re in trouble now, bubba. You can’t go around making fun of sacred cows without them trying to make hamburger out of you.

    AKAKY: You should have said something while I was writing the damn thing.

    AKAKY IRL: You don’t pay any attention to me.

    AKAKY: I wonder why.

    AKAKY IRL: Me too. I’m usually right.

  242. DAH…thank you! and…smiling…stay tuned..
    our BURN APP (soonest) will kick some SERIOUS ASS….
    Word up, Church (as we say in a street lingo)
    new sexy BURN App coming up soonest

  243. EVA.. i remember u asked me to transfer them your requests to make IZ easier available..my friends in Istanbul are trying hard… to serve photography the most honorable way!

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