Burn editors Diego Orlando, DAH, and Anton Kusters on beach Carolina - photograph by Bryan Harvey

sorry i have not been around here for comments etc…nevertheless i HAVE been doing all things Burn …both at LOOK3 and now at my home…the whole Burn staff and a few crashers and hangers-on did manage to get to my house after the three day non-stop marathon that was LOOK3…Burn  officially started off the final day of Look  with the slideshow leading to the announcement about Irina being our new EPF recipient…i am so proud of all of the jury for selecting Irina…thanks Maggie Steber, Narelle Autio, Trent Parke and Barbara Stauss…these jurors added  to our repertoire of photojournalists like Davide and Sean winning our award but also more conceptual artists like Alejandro and Irina as recipients as well……Burn 02 coming soonest and the reason for the meeting at my home,  the book is going to rock it bigtime…we will launch with a special Burn slideshow in the arena at Perpignan this year…an honest too cool European opening of Burn.

anyway, i cannot stay long now, but i just wanted you to know that yes i am having fun and still working all the time to make this an educational hangout for all of you…Anton just left for the airport…next story up will be his Yakuza book official announcement…after all Anton is a former student and Burn colleague who listened and then went and did it with his own special talents…so damn right i will help to sell his book on Burn prior to Burn 02….later i will also do my own RIO, but in early 2012 with a free tabloid for all of you and a book for sale if you choose…all books and printed objects of any kind coming from Burn will be built around their limited edition appeal…Burn 01 has already proven this…as will Anton’s book, and 02,  and maybe maybe YOUR BOOK….yes, we will be looking all around the town…for things that will make sense…for things that just MUST be published…Diego is your go to book guy. Bryan, who shot the short film for our upcoming book JOOK is going to be selecting a few new short videos for our attention…we want to start featuring more short films…

anyway, this is the conversation on my front porch…as you all know by now if i am anywhere near you, everyone is always invited into the discussion…we plan to do Burn meetings in Warsaw, Rome, Bangkok, etc. etc..to meet more of you, to look at your portfolios, to consider your work for Burn. we will have to charge something for this but just enough so we can get to you…plane tickets, meeting space, etc., etc…anyway, we can all figure this out….we are thinking of more ways for all of you to participate, starting with a call for self portraits…yes, just like i did for Road Trips…only this time for possible but not guaranteed use in Burn 02…as a portfolio of a hundred or ten…we would have to see…not silly gratuitous gimmicky use of self portraiture, but something totally sophisticated yet edgy…yes, looking nice for 02…anyway, we are working it all out…fun stuff…creative stuff…education stuff…only things we like and care about…figuring we are pretty much on the same page with whomever is here…no pandering to an audience who will never like the way we think but assuming a nice connection with a significant number of like minded folks who just appreciate the visual image…and with photography as a way of living life….hard to knock the combo…

ok nuff said…

Mike Courvoisier, Diego Orlando, Maya Joseph Goteiner, Michelle Madden Smith and Bryan Harvey

397 thoughts on “think tank…”

  1. DAVID,

    Your front porch seems to be quite busy…. So refreshing to see all of you hanging together… Sky looks great, light is superb, good company, family near by…. what more to ask for…. thanks for sharing with us a bit of these special moments…. photography as a way of living life…. need to think about that….



  2. sweet….especially the smile and the sand and the surf and….the light!….:)))))….next time, i want in (the beach house)! ;))))))))))))

    anton: love the ink!

    david/diego/anton: sent u some teaser self-portraits….tough week with family/friend in florida…off for a few days….

    will be in Foley Beach in August (end)…if y’all are in town, i may drive up for a day…


    hugs around


    HOW CAN I GET A BURN T-SHIRT FOR MARINA???? (and me of course)….she leaves for her Fellowship Residency with Mikhailov in 2 weeks…if we can get her a t-shirt, i can have her do some lovely PR :)))…she is taking BURN01 to show her students (she’s giving an artist talk) and show to Mikhailov….any chance i can get one, or how??….

    gotta run


  4. ohhh ..that tattoo…hmmm (i did see it ,but i thought it was just photoshop or something…:)
    thats a full body knight armor, not a tattoo…
    A tattoo is a scar, this tattoo her is more the Mona Lisa , in “upset” kinda “wild” mode…
    good afternoon y’all from the beautiful United States of America!!!

  5. Think Tank…i love it! the Burn tee’s aren’t bad either…limited and collectable I hope.

    Burn on Burnians…I can feel the salty air, and smell the fresh lime, Coronas!

    Much respect – Jeremy

  6. questions:

    how to acquire a burn camera bag??


    this call for self-portraits – not being familiar with Road Trips, is this an email submission to DAH or to burn?

  7. How about we honour this year’s EPF with a “Back To The Future” theme self-portrait submission? (I’ll do my Grade One red sweater portrait – if David does his – but I don’t know where I’ll get the pine-panelling wallpaper…or the polyester turquoise faux-chenille sofa!)


  8. ALL

    Well, I may be home from LOOK3 but my feet aren’t touching the ground yet. What an amazing 3 days…4 for me as I arrived a day early to see the exhibits. I encourage all you Burnians around the world to start saving for LOOK3 2012 — IT REALLY IS WORTH IT!!!

    I just gathered and posted some of my photos here:


    Not too much in the way of documenting the people or the event as I was trying out what I’d learned in DAH’s fabulous Low Light/High Mind workshop. As a self-taught photog I had only a nodding acquaintance with shutter speeds. But after a few hours with DAH I am now playing with SS all the time. So cool! It’s never too late to learn ;=)

    Just want to give a special shout-out to my new and old in-person Burn friends Wendy, Gina, Anton, Panos, Hillary, Kurt, DAH, Andrew, Erica and her husband Spencer, Michael C, Kerry, Scott, Diego, Cori, Mike Y, Linda O, Bryan, Michelle, Paul, David McG, Doug, Marie, Dave K, Anna Maria, Johnny, Richard and all those whom I may have forgotten (my apologies).

    Bought Anton’s book and it is SPECTACULAR!!! And Kurt Lengfield gave me a copy of his book “MoJo” which features his wonderful iPhone pics from the Mississippi Delta workshop. Thanks so much, Kurt. I love it! I had ordered Sam Harris’ book “Postcards From Home” and it was waiting for me when I returned home. What a treasure! We had seen his work here on Burn but there’s nothing like seeing photos in print, especially stunning photos like Sam’s.

    We have so much talent here. What a great community to be part of. Thank you, David and Anton, and all the others who keep Burn alive and thriving. Such an adventure…


  9. Patricia – I was glad to see you on the Panos gallery. I don’t know if you saw the comment I left on revelations, but I wanted to thank you for the comment you left on Lens. I appreciated that. Now I will look at your LOOK3 gallery.

  10. @ ALL:
    This posted made my day!
    BURN is International but for real, not in the e-world. Meeting in Perpignan (I’ll be there for sure), Rome, Warsaw, Paris, Bangkok, etc, etc…
    BURN is touchable, with Burn 02 coming, Anton’s book and meetings everywhere…

    OK, got my panoramic selfportrait waiting for submission.

    Abrazo a la gran familia


  11. Oops: is POST and no POSTED (erratum)

    and yes, that’s a T-A-T-O-O !!!
    and yes that’s a P-I-C-T-U-R-E !!! meanwhile the japanese tiger is looking at the italian editor… the master is smiling behind.

    Thomas, Viele danke for the link to the t-shirt store, get mine :-)

    Beautiful morning here with 30Celsius (don’t know how many Fahrenheit, here we have the metric system).


  12. David…Hope we might be able to chat sometime over Skype. Have a book project I’d like to talk to you about. Unless you are planning a Beijing leg to your Burn meetings?!

    All…Wish I could have been there at Look3. 2008 (my last, and only, time there) seems like an age ago. Next year maybe!


    it was amazing to see you in such a high energy mode at Look…not that i have ever not seen you in high energy mode, but well you are simply indefatigable …and with a youthful enthusiasm that catches others…a gift my friend, a gift…

  14. GORDON…

    silly can be edgy….nice portrait in the mirror, does not seem silly actually, and i am wondering how you like your Fuji…i may have left the wrong impression Gordon…what i wanted to say in my post , which was actually originally written as a comment here, was that even though i really wanted the audience participation in this 02 edition, i really want these self portraits to be on the same level as the rest of the book….so that in five years ten years you will still hold this book with pride…remember, and all of us forget this it seems, is that this whole magazine comes from this audience…i am well aware that i could have more readers if i simply went a bit more mainstream….but i am not here to create a popular magazine..why would i do that? i work for popular magazines..and i know the editorial drill to stay popular..i want nothing to do with that mentality…it is not bad, it is intended to sell magazines…i want an audience, but i want the audience that naturally falls my way…i think you know this..so i just want this self portrait section to be really nice..that’s all..and yes yes of course we also need to sell 02 but we will remain clean and free of advertising so that those of us who produce 02 can make straight editorial decisions simply based on our tastes and not what an advertiser might prefer…not realistic? ever hear me sound realistic? smiling…

    by the way Gordon , you may remember we did a self portrait deal for Road Trips a few years ago…it was terrific…some great great work in there for sure…i will expect the same this time around…

    cheers, david

  15. MARCIN..

    we will be counting on you to help us think about that one…next spring? maybe this fall….we will need a space that is convenient where we can set up a projector and screen…just a room that will hold maybe 50 people…anyway, we can skype about this…the only way it make sense is if i make a stop in Warsaw in connection with something else i am doing in Europe..but we can figure this out…


    i think you know i already did my january in Barrow…one was enough…on the other hand, in some really twisted way it would really be good…but for sure it would be a meeting of thee and me only…i think the others here would prefer something a bit closer to the banana belt in Juneau

  17. AMELIE

    we must come up with a deadline and a structure for submitting self portraits….this week….we have to tweak out the Burn bag a bit…will let you know soonest how to get your hands on one…

  18. Burn(Organic)Think Tank Toronto…?!?! Hosted by Bob and Marina Black…:)

    Any chance seeing the EPF semi-finalist list before we dive into the next contest?

  19. MARC…

    this list will be published here within minutes….attached to story on recipient..congrats , you are one of them!!


    hang on to your self portraits until we have a proper place to send them..and here is not the place..lost for sure here

  20. a civilian-mass audience

    I had a dream …almost three years ago…and oime…
    my dream is coming through true…

    damnit…BURN is like Anton’s tattoo…(PANOS,you are over the limit:))))

    I told you …even the e-sky is not enough for all our energy…
    revolution-evolution…yes,LASSAL…What not to love!!!

    P.S…hmm…I don’t do self-portraits…am I out?:)))

  21. Thomas, Love your passport pictures. Now that’s sophisticated and edgy!

    Yes, I understand what you are saying. Glad you liked the mirror portrait of Martha and I, I like it too. It was a silly playful moment. I joined burn after road trips, but will wade back through the archive to see if I can find the self portraits.

    You asked about the Fuji. I love using this camera. There are some frustrating quirks which require a learning curve. Fuji has promised a firmware update in the near future to deal with some of the issues. The frustration recedes after a few weeks and it is a sheer joy. The viewfinder is wonderful. I bought it primarily because of the optical viewfinder, but you can instantly switch to the excellent evf which I find myself using much more than I thought I would, or of course you can use the screen on the back of the camera like any other compact. My only frustration with the viewfinder is that the distracting distance scale cannot be turned off in manual focus mode.

    The image quality is simply the best I’ve ever experienced. The jpgs straight from the camera are amazing. Almost all of the photos in my x100 gallery are jpgs from the camera. You can see these files full size by clicking “original” underneath the photo. http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/fuji_x100&page=all I’m generally a RAW shooter, and still shoot RAW plus jpg with the fuji, but I find myself seldom going to the RAW file. Other users on x100 forums are reporting the same experience and are becoming jpeggers.

    I suspect you would enjoy using this camera if you spent some time with it.


  22. Sorry all.. won’t be around much.. gotta go and build a new shelf.. with a BURN board or two.. :)

  23. THOMAS:

    That link for the Burn store at cafe press is good, but the grey t-shirts that were sold at LOOK3 are different (and I don’t think on the cafe press site)….

    Regarding the self-portrait, I think for you it should be of Akaky IRL. :)

  24. Akaky, your self portrait doesn’t have to be you; it can be Akaky IRL…!

    Anton, great tattoo: do I (I do) detect a Japanese influence? Btw, Blurb are advertising in this month’s British Journal of Photography and your book, The Yakuza in Tokyo (the Soichiro tattoo) is a prominent feature of the ad. looks great.

    Good to see you all enjoying the Outer Banks.


  25. DAH, Burn Staff:

    What’s the possibility of getting the Cafepress Burn Store to offer some 3″x5″ vinyl stickers with the logo? I’m sure that kid in Colorado needs one for his skateboard, and I need some for my guitar, truck, laptop, and Yorkie (at least until her hair grows back – don’t ask…)

  26. Akaky wrote,”does my self-portrait have to be of me? or can I use somebody else?”

    Can self-gratification be administered to another person or does it just become gratification :)

  27. DAH …..FOR SURE … i would love to help make it happen …… just fr d record its a biannual thing …. nxt would be 2013 ….

  28. MIKE R…

    there was a lunar eclipse that night, but that is my finger over the lens…that is an iPhone picture and that happens from time to time with the way i incorrectly hold the phone/camera…because it can be a bit hard to see the details in the screen in certain light, this can easily happen without noticing…shhhhhh

    by the way, the top picture was with the 5D and the bottom as i said with an iPhone..in this small screen size, one would not really know…and the meter in the iPhone is at least as good as the meter in the 5D…another shhhh

  29. David, I think maybe for you to understand most of the IPhone/Apps argument that goes on around here, you need to download Hipstamatic and shoot with that for awhile. That’s what I did before commenting. It’s under $5. Am curious what you would think.

  30. THOMAS
    I might be mistaken then – does yours say “Light my fire” on the back?

    Bryan (Harvey) had an interesting point when we were talking about the hipstamatic (type) programs for the phone. He was talking about the drawback of how it takes longer to process and take another picture. I told him how I typically take it with the regular phone camera, then load it into the app for processing.

    The interestign observation (at least to me) was that he liked using the app, since that way, just like a holga or diana, you dont’ necessarily know what you’re going to get….

  31. DAH (David) just joking (of course) about photo 2 – I didn’t even notice it the first few viewings – but amazed to read that it is from an iPhone! I don’t have one, obviously; my phone is so old it runs on steam. Outer Banks looks like a special place.

    Framers, yes, nice one.


  32. David, don’t get me wrong, I don’t presume to know what you’d think of it if you tried it — I mean, I presumed to know what I’d think and I was very wrong about that and I’m way more predictable than you — just curious. Regarding Brian’s point though, It didn’t take long at all before I figured it out and pretty much knew what I’d be getting, then chose my subjects accordingly. It’s really, really easy.

  33. MW
    Know what you mean. I think Bryan was using something besides hipstamatic, but not sure…also not sure it was more random. But to follow the analogy of an actual Holga, once you’ve used one a while you get to “know” it as well, and can somewhat predict the leaks and flaws….

    But ’nuff said about them – I think we talked that one in circles enough…..

  34. Sweat dripping, drink tipping, sounds kicking…

    Yeah, it’s a good night, alright. Paris had better BURN cos I’m on fire on the dancefloor right now…

    Just sayin’…


  35. I’m not one to talk about personal shit. Usually way too private for that. Today was a rough one, and I am having a hard time shaking the feeling of dread. Maybe typing it out will help.

    75 people got let go from where I work, including several people I call friends in an event called “reorganizing of assets” by our CEO (our stock price is stagnant, and we need to due something to boost our profit margin). This move blindsided all of us. It’s been almost a 18 months since the last round of cuts, and we all thought the darkness of those days had passed. I’ve been laid off, and it is not fun. Once the shock and anger for being let go passes, there is a prolonged struggle to evaluate your self worth.

    This is not to slam the CEO of out company. Although he is paid well, he’s not one of the absurdly-paid executives that are commonly derided. I’m sure he’s just reacting to what his employers (stock holders) are demanding. This is just one of those moments that make me think that the continual quest for greater profits at the expense of the people is a glaring shortcoming to the capitalist system in America. Makes me wonder if there isn’t a better way.

    We keep hearing about how the private sector knows how to do things more efficiently than the public sector. Whether that’s true or not is open for debate, but today makes me think that is all irrelevant. What’s the point of doing things more efficiently if that reduces all around you to rubble? Why not do things slightly less efficiently as a company, in a way that benefits the greater good? Is greed the only driving force we are left with in this country? It pisses me off when I see that Mitt Romney joke about how he’s out of work too. What arrogance. It’s like joking about stubbing your toe while you walk through a cancer ward.

    I am sorry for my ramblings. Some of the things here are going to offend, and I”ll likely feel differently in the light of day. I just needed to spout.

    Peace to all those here. Best of luck to all those who lost their jobs today.

  36. MW…

    will do…i know nothing of any of the iPhone apps or capabilities…all i know is that i find myself taking more and more pictures with it..my GF1 is now my “big camera” and the iPhone my day in and day out play camera…for me it is a combo of spontaneous and deliberate…i can compose on the iPhone screen the same way i would compose with a view camera or a Rolei…a feeling of deliberate and yet quickly to become loose and spontaneous if i want…and the fascinating feeling that i can make movies, books, and every damn thing from this little mobile device in my pocket…if it is like that now, imagine five years from now…

    by the way, i did like your Curious People (title?) essay submitted for EPF….it was right up there….a nice surprise for me….well done, and i will want to use it here on Burn with your permission of course…

    cheers, david


    your pain is felt…i have never really had a job to lose, yet your description of the feelings you have will of course touch all of us…when i do hear stories like this , i often feel like telling everyone to be in their own business, but of course few are set up psychologically or technically to do so…most people in society need a job….a good old fashioned job….when i hear of good workers losing jobs and self esteem in the process, i can honestly feel their powerlessness even though i do not have direct experience…still i can imagine….anyway, we all wish you a clear head and good navigational skills…

    cheers, david

  38. Brian; That’s a real bugger, cos it’s a pain having you life/lifestyle in the hands of another. I went through the same thing before I went fulltime (photography). Always went the extra mile for all my bosses; but somehow seemed to always get shafted in the end.

    I don’t know what the answer is; I suppose that is for each individual to try and fathom out. However I do wish you the best and truly hope things work out well for you. Stay stromg amd take care…

  39. “The only real jury for the net worth of what you do is you”

    Too true; the bit that I hate is the love/hate I always have with my pics. I seem to go through cycles of liking and then hating my most recent work. Always striving to do better; an absurd game of shadow boxing…

  40. a civilian-mass audience


    I have ouzo,I have chickens,civilian’s home is paid off…come over,no kidding…
    I am on the streets most of the time…

    I am going out again…I will be back to check you ALL
    running marathon

  41. a civilian-mass audience

    EVA…what are you gonna build?…hmmm…ok,let me know…

    I am not focused lately..22 days on the street..hmmm…I start to smelll funny…
    ok,I love u all…keep rolling and have a shower daily:))))))))))))))and the teeth…
    brush your teeth…ok,be back


    As someone who’s been in the position you’re in (have been let go, and have survived while friends and co-workers were let go), I know the feeling, and it’s a hard one. Not only a feeling of sympathy and concern for those who lost their jobs, but also I know I felt a bit of guilt: I was still there, and they weren’t. And that was almost as hard to handle as the pain of being one of the ones to lose the job.

    All I can say is put one foot in front of the other, hug and hold those close to you, and help those you can.


    “Too true; the bit that I hate is the love/hate I always have with my pics. I seem to go through cycles of liking and then hating my most recent work. Always striving to do better; an absurd game of shadow boxing…”

    Boy, am I glad that I’m not the only one who does that. Until recently I was in the part of the cycle where I thought everything pretty much sucked and I wasn’t sure why I bothered….

    Bus…road trip…is it a bus or a caravan? I can picture a string of gypsy cars meandering it’s way across the land…some staying the whole way, some along for part of the ride, all enjoying and living and participating in the real Road Trip.

    DAH, how appropriate would it be to have Burn’s predecessor name come to reality? for real Road Trips, where those who have read and met and participated can come together in person….Pretty cool, I think….we could do it if we imagine and work it…I know it.

    good (moon) light, all.

  43. First, Thomas – Damned if you didn’t make me break out laughing.

    Second, Brian – So sorry. Sounds rough. I hope things get better soon.

    Third, Vivek – Thanks for the link. Now you’ve got my mind working. I need to get back to India this fall/winter – but later than that – need to be there for sure November 22 – but now you’ve got me wondering if this is something I should try to get involved in. I will have to think about it. It might be premature for the story I want to tell, but it might also give my efforts a boost. I think you know what story that is.

    As to little cameras, I love my iPhone, never used an ap, but love what I get with it – except that there’s no lens protection so all the pictures are getting kinda mucky and blurred – which can be okay, too. After I got my artifical shoulder, I did 95 percent of my shooting with pocket cameras, most recently the s-90, but I lost the battery charger for that awhile back and somehow the sensor developed some terrible dust spots, so lately I have just been shooting with my DSLR’s and a few on the iPhone.

  44. Get a job, lose a job, make up a job, get a job, get the sack, get a job, tell the boss to go fornicate with a spider, no job, ahh a new job, job runs it course, get a job, make up another job……….think about a career, so the story goes for most of us but it beats the poor buggers who never got a job because there are none to be had.

  45. Brian…

    I’m very sorry to hear the bad news; I know it may sound a bit silly but take advantage of this “break” to reassess your life and perhaps take change of direction you previously never believed could be possible.
    My three best friends have all been unemployed for the last two years, their unemployment benefit finishes round about Autumn and I’ve worked with all three of them – hard workers, but round here in Spain things are bad very bad just a little better than Greece – or at least that’s what they tell us.
    Take good care and remember you’ve also got your Burn family.

  46. Andrew B…

    Been looking at your Look 3 pics, great stuff!
    Amazing three different ways of seeing Look3 all utterly personal!

  47. “The only real jury for the net worth of what you do is you.Many cannot decide”
    So very true and don’t think about it all so much, too often we sit contemplating and worrying…


  48. FROST FROG …. Sorry m nt updated on ur project ………. please do let me know if you are participating ……

  49. a civilian-mass audience

    EVA…oime…the way I look and I smell right now…

    hmmm…nobody wants to come that close to me…and I eat garlic,lots of garlic…
    thanks my lady,you gave me an idea:))))))))))))

    ok,let me try the CANADIAN way…

  50. whoa – ANTONS GONE NATIVE… (“my name is DANCES WITH WOLVES”)
    hope you’ll keep all yer fingers..
    am sure you will, knowing you..

    nice tatt :o)

  51. a civilian-mass audience

    Do I see aspirins…???
    I need one…:)))

    DAVIDB…what tatt?:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))as PANOS said:)))))))))))))))

  52. a civilian-mass audience

    welcome back AITKEN…

    rock on…PARTYYYY again in the house of BURN…

    one more garlic for the road…I am out again

  53. Brian, wish I could say “hope things will get better soon”, but as you wrote above these kinds of things are inherent in capitalism. Capital is god, people are expendable.

    Eva, thanks for the link.

  54. “Civi… look, this is the Candadian way of protesting:


    do you do it the same way in Greece? Perhaps after a shower? ;)”

    Oh dear, I thought he was just giving her mouth to mouth recuscitation. Great picture, although some are suggesting it was set up.

    We Canadians are ashamed of the rioters. They came intending to riot, prepared with gas masks, gasoline, and weapons. There is a huge public effort to identify the instigators using the thousands of pictures and videos shot by the bystanders.

  55. Gordon.. seems the two were run over by the police.. at least that is what others write on the net.. but don’t tell Civi, kissing despite everything is so much more romantic ;)

    Thodoris, you’re welcome :)

  56. ANDREW…

    great to see this slideshow…many thanks for taking the time to do it…honestly the days at this event get so so action packed, that it takes your photography for me to remember it all!


    where in the world have you been lately amigo? yes, i love Arles as well and we will have a small presence there this year…Arles always falls at a really bad time for me…early July….i will just have been at an almost week long Magnum meet in Paris, and then to jump a week later to Arles might be too too much…particularly since we just were at Look3….however, knowing myself a bit, once i am in Paris i could change my whole plan and end up in Arles…please note however, Burn will have a truly terrific presentation at Perpignan this year…we will announce Burn02 for one thing and i do also have a loyalty to Jean Francois who gave me early exhibitions which led to DivSoul…Arles is quieter and more austere and i love it for sure, but i guess this year i will go to Perpignan…

    anyway, nice to hear from you and hope our paths do indeed cross soonest..

    cheers, david


    i always think about you…and your father…

    now you are a man who i do expect great work from as well..your ONLY problem with doing a major work is simply time…you have your career and your family…i do not suggest you give up either! but let’s do think what you can do …boxing was terrific in Ohio…yet, maybe you had to leave it too quickly…how long will you stay in Brussels? can we meet this summer? now Paris, later Italy and then back to France early in sept…

    your insights here always right on…

    cheers, david

  58. Ya know, about the apps conversation, Anton’s work is a great example of the point I often make as it appears he put a lot of thought into the look of each individual photo. There are stretches where you could create an app to mimic that look, the pinkish stretch perhaps the best example, but there is no way you could create an app to mimic the look of the work. The fact, I think, that the look of the work is consistent but the look of individual photos varies widely demonstrates that it’s the “look” in the artist’s mind’s eye that tells the tale and no computer programmer can ever get more than a superficial part of that in code.

    And thanks, David, for the kind words on Curious People. Presumably you saw the very early stab at Rurality as well. Putting that together really made me see how far I have to go. I have a lot of great audio, but I found way too much of it describing all of these incredibly interesting photos that I haven’t yet taken. I think it could be significant when I do. Thanks again for your help with that, btw, it’s been important. Back to Curious People, of course I’m always open to a conversation about publishing. I’d suggest bumping it to the top of the (what’s beginning to sound like a very long) list, eh…;)

  59. I have cellulitis. I’m sorry, but as look at that first sentence I realize that I shouldn’t sound so sure of myself. I think I have cellulitis; that’s actually much closer to the truth. But whatever the actual truth of the matter is, I have some form of –itis and it doesn’t want to go away. If you’ve never heard of cellulitis then do not fear; from what I understand the conditions is not contagious and to be honest I’d never heard of cellulitis before this week either, assuming, of course, that cellulitis is what I have. Doctors are like computer technicians in that they think that because they understood what they just said, everyone else must understand what they just said too. This, as we all know, is not always the case, either with bacterial infections or fractious computers. Sometimes things are not as they seem, a condition that helps incumbents get re-elected on a fairly regular basis.

    In any case, I disapprove of contracting diseases that I’ve never heard of. It seems more than a little rude to me for some microbe to take up residence in my left hand without so much as asking for an introduction or leaving a security deposit. I am not in the habit of imposing myself on others and I see no reason why I should permit others to impose on me. I am not running a hot sheets hotel for bacteria here. If I am going to be sick, then I prefer to give the job to local bacteria that I know and loathe, and whose death via antibiotic I can therefore savor with a clear conscience and maybe a small parade. Contracting cellulitis, and again, this is with the proviso that the condition afflicting my left hand at the moment is in fact cellulitis and not some other altogether disgusting and loathsome disease, seems the height of bacterial presumption, something on the order of my moving to Ulan Bator for my health and then demanding the Mongolian authorities conduct their official business in English for my convenience. I can see how my relatives can impose on me in this way…well, actually, I can’t see how my relatives can impose on me in this way, they just do impose on me in this way and with very little compunction, I might add, but I cannot see how a bacterium to whom I have no known familial or personal connection can demand the right to make an equal imposition. Charity, I think, only goes so far before it becomes onerous, if not actually socialistic, and then becomes physically painful, which are how things stand with me right at the moment.

    I do not wish to point fingers here, especially not with my left hand, which is really not in any condition at the moment to point at anything except the floor, but there is something clearly lacking in the education of young bacteria these days. Once, here in this our Great Republic, the citizenry could count on the public schools to teach young microbes the basic etiquette required to infect the body politic on a truly epic scale, but those days are long gone, it would seem, leaving only the anomic young masses to wander in and out of the school buildings doing as they please.

    I suppose that much of this bacterial anomie comes from their condition as bacteria in a world where everyone worries about viruses. After centuries of being the terror of the world, of affecting the course of history by simply appearing in one place or another and killing a million people here and a million people there, Nemesis struck; Sir Alexander Fleming and his orange molds reduced the common bacterium to just one more easily removed annoyance in a world full of easily removed annoyances, whereas viruses have, in their own truly stupid way, stumbled into the title of most feared killer. This must be galling in the extreme for your average microbe, who must wonder if viruses are really alive at all. This is a debatable question, I think, and I am sure of the position most bacterium would take: viruses are too dumb to be alive, as are most Red Sox fans. Frankly, I would prefer that this cellulitis, assuming that it is cellulitis, would infect those people instead of me; I have stuff to do this weekend.

  60. DAVID,

    Just saw your comment….. I will be in Brussels for at least another couple of years and after that who knows…. Doing a MAJOR work in photography is of course what many of us aspire to and of clearly it is more often than not on my mind as well to try harder, make it a priority… Seeing the projects of others come to fruition is at times motivating and at times making me a bit upset that I do not have the time to do what I would like… But you have told me many times that photographers like excuses, at least many of them do, so I will avoid using that excuse too much…. It is not as if I do not take pictures…. just having a bit of fun photographing the kids right now, teaching them how to use the camera etc…. Maybe these pictures with no specific goal will end up making a story or an essay eventually… as you said to Audrey a while back when you were telling her to photograph her parents…. worse that could happen to me is to get a nice family album at the end… that being said, what I probably need to get going seriously is a good kick in the…. and maybe this is where “good old David” can make miracles…. so I would love to see you David if we get a chance and have a chat about where to head… and maybe will have few decent family snapshots by then…. I could most certainly come down to see you in Perpignan…. not sure when you are in Paris….

    In any case, thanks for the offer and for thinking about the Espinosa family…. considering you are ageless you will soon be mentoring my son Enzo or my daughter Tia…. I am sensing some potential in the next generation :):):)



  61. Vivek – no, you would not be updated and I’ve never really said anything about it on this forum, but last November I left a link here to my blog entry that covered the events in Bangalore that triggered it and got a nice response from you. Thanks to your link here, I have been in contact with festival people and they are interested. The problem is the timing. I will need to be in Bangalore that same week in November and will likely need to stay into December and I cannot afford to take the time away from Alaska to stay there October – December, nor can I afford to go back and forth.

    Anyway, it might be premature at this point. I learned that it the festival only happens every other year. Maybe 2013 will work out best.

    But – if I should come this year, I will definitely let you know.

  62. I’ve often thought of doing a family essay, or shooting my parent [one is unavailable at the moment and likely to stay that way for a very long while], or maybe doing a nice family album, but then I remember that I would fill this album with photographs with members of my family, and then the thought of doing a family essay disappears like a bigamist’s vow to forsake all others and just as quickly as well. There’s just something about looking at pictures of people you don’t want to see in real life that casts a pall over your day and interferes greatly with your digestion and makes you rather take pictures of flowers or sewage disposal plants.

  63. Akaky, “There’s just something about looking at pictures of people you don’t want to see in real life that casts a pall over your day and interferes greatly with your digestion and makes you rather take pictures of flowers or sewage disposal plants.” – I take it that your family don’t read the comments on burn? Hilarious!

  64. “I take it that your family don’t read the comments on burn”

    If any of them read anything more complicated than the Daily Racing Form or the sports pages of the New York Post I would be greatly surprised. One of the reasons I write such long sentences is not that I am unduly influenced by Proust, Faulkner, and Wolfe, although I am, but that I know if the relatives ever come upon this site the anguish of reading one of said long sentences will strain their already foreshortened attention spans to the very limit and cause them to turn away before they develop massive headaches and shortness of breath.

  65. AKAKY

    now of course i am very intrigued to photograph your family for my family series….they sound so totally All American Pie and no doubt you took your Chevy to the dry levy back in the day….well i am sure the whole extended family just loves Uncle Akaky and this will show in pictures….shall we do this in b&w or color? or Hipstamatic sepia with dust? hmmm, i am starting to get a headache and shortness of breath just thinking about this…can we push this back til next year? just to give our thoughts a bit of intellectual marination….couldn’t hurt.

    cheers, david

  66. a civilian-mass audience

    AKAKY…oime…I must be one of your long lost relatives…:)))
    “I know if the relatives ever come upon this site the anguish of reading one of said long sentences will strain their already foreshortened attention spans to the very limit and cause them to turn away before they develop massive headaches and shortness of breath.”

    AKAKY …what not to Love!!!

    THODORIS…updates please…

    EVA,GORDON…thank you,you really dig deep:)))))))))))

    think tank…I need an aspirine…hmmm…I see the bottle(first photo):)

  67. a civilian-mass audience


    VIVA FATHERS,downstairs,upstairs…
    “Becoming a father is easy enough, but being one can be very rough”
    Wilhelm Busch (German painter and poet, 1832-1908)

  68. Brian Frank. Brian, sorry to hear your news. I’ve been in both situations; been let go and been the one to survive (at the same firm at different times) and both are really bad. It hits you in the stomach and makes you feel sick. Life goes on, though, and I found the best way to cope was to see it as a challenge and an opportunity. I eventually left the firm, on my own terms, and it was a good move for me: eventually. Hope you are o.k. and hope this helps.


  69. I watched Terrence Malick’s “Tree Of Life” yesterday. I am a huge fan and have always appreciated how every single frame of his movies are such compositional masterpieces. His latest movie is no exception, and through an American family he explores the path of creation, life, and the pain of death.

    In the theatre I kept thinking of David’s observation that during his own photo taking, he fills himself with life, immersing himself in everything and everybody around him. Well, guess what? “The Tree Of Life” could very well have used David’s “Family Album” – or what little of it I have seen so far – as the storyboard for his movie. The imagery had a very strong Harveyesque fingerprint – impressionistic beauty, rhythmic motion, multiple planes, colour. As such it gave me a very satisfying dualistic experience watching Malick and David side by each…and trying to figure who begat whom in this cinematic dance.

    Happy Godfather’s Day, David!

  70. a civilian-mass audience

    I see soul…real stuff…thanks for sharing My VIVA!

  71. a civilian-mass audience

    No rooms for Paris?…
    what’s going on…
    I sleep well on floormats…but I tend to fart…when I am tired…hmm:(

  72. a civilian-mass audience

    and more…
    “Thodoris’s photographs featured in BRAND magazine…”

    BRAVOOOO THODORI…you are a fighter…keep BURNING!

  73. Was happily surprised to see Narelle Autio’s amazing underwater work in the latest National Geographic. Was doubly surprised to then also see a stunning photo from Tomas Munita who was in David and Nachtwey’s Bangkok workshop. Very cool.

  74. AKAKY IRL: Influenced by Faulkner, Wolfe, and Proust, are you? There some reason you’re being more than a precious snot than usual today?

    AKAKY: I’m not being precious.

    AKAKY IRL: Says you. And are you going to tell your friends that the only reason that your long lost relatives are long lost is because you’re hiding from them?

    AKAKY: I’m not hiding from them.

    AKAKY IRL: Really? Then kindly explain why a trip to see your relatives, some of whom live only a few miles from our happy little burg, almost invariably involves your getting lost in either Pennsylvania or Connecticut.

    AKAKY: Hey…

    AKAKY IRL: Allow me to rephrase that, if you will. Finding yourself in Connecticut is fairly easy to do in this neck of the woods; it’s only forty miles away, but getting lost in Pennsylvania takes time and effort and real concentration, bubba. The only way you zip by Matamoros is because you aimed the car that way and you kept on trucking.

    AKAKY: I don’t think I like your implication there, guy.

    AKAKY IRL: I’m not implying anything, dude; implying something would mean stratching my foreshortened attention span to its absolute limit and then breaking it in two. I’m saying it outright: you don’t like the rest of us.

    AKAKY: I never said that!

    AKAKY IRL: Like hell you didn’t. You’ve been making us look bad since your blog pals were doing the Road Trips thing. You think the rest of us are too dumb to figure out just who the hell you were talking about? Especially that one where you were talking about your father’s funeral and how you had to provide ties for most of the male relatives, including your dad.

    AKAKY: Hey, I liked Pop.

    AKAKY IRL: Sure you did, but you still wanted your tie back, didn’t you, you classless shit. Or was it my imagination that you asked the undertaker to make sure you got it back? Taking the tie off of your own dead father because you didn’t want to spend the money for a new one. You really are a piece of work, you know that? A real piece of work.

    AKAKY: I don’t know what you’re complaining about, I didn’t get the tie back.

    AKAKY IRL: And that’s been bugging you ever since, ain’t it?

    AKAKY: No, it hasn’t. I miss Pop, though, even if he couldn’t remember what my name was.

    AKAKY IRL: That’s true. I suppose your life would have been easier if he’d just named you “Hey You” to begin with. That way you woudn’t have to wonder who he was talking to.

    AKAKY: Yeah, that’s true.

    AKAKY IRL: You’re still a precious shit.

    AKAKY: Thank you. I’ll say something nice about you sometime.

    AKAKY IRL: Don’t bother.

    AKAKY: I won’t.

  75. Okay…

    Paul: prints and books –> packed
    John: films sent to London and sent back here by kind postal office –> packed

    Papers for court session and loan request –> packed

    Cat –> TO PACK as soon as I chase the thing..

    DAH: hugs –> packed :)

    Anton: please pack the book!

    Off on the road again, see you up North.. and a very fine day to all here :)

  76. a civilian-mass audience

    EVA..and My BURNIANS…

    safe travels…enjoy every minute…and bring some reporting back to BURNLAND…
    I have to admit…it’s a soul healing to be around here…with all of YOU…
    we are indeed a family…oime…my dream is coming true…

    love…peace…and respect…

  77. Right, a busy day…must do some work and laundry and packing for London-Paris-London, now that’s gonna be fun!

    I need some workprints stat. I also need a new bag. And the sun is shining and begging me to spend the day photographing instead (Liverpool light is special, and one of the few things I really love about this city…). But, I must resist, because London’s Calling!

  78. Must have been tired last night. Posted on Revelations, not Think Tank.


    I’ve been out of the loop for a few days, so want to catch up.

    First, and most important: Anton, congrats on a beautiful book! I hope it sells out as fast as David thinks it will. After it does, any thoughts in following Chris Anderson’s example and create an app for download? So many things can be done outside of a book.

    Second, Any movement on the self portrait idea?

    Third, Did an interview with a young fighter from Creston, Iowa. As we were driving around his town, I ask how many people lived there, and I got the greatest response: “About 8500. Creston’s like the Des Moines of Southwestern Iowa.” Epic.

  79. hey brian,

    yeah have some great and i think very unique ideas for an app…. but first things first… build an audience that will actually buy it so all that effort doesn’t go down the drain… the actual sales of YAKUZA book will be a good gauge for a lot of things to come in that respect… keeping my fingers crossed again… and again….. ;)

    cheers, a

  80. BRIAN..

    just to add to what Anton says…we are definitely going to get into the app biz…for individual projects and for Burn in general…Anton’s book sales are phenomenal and i will announce soonest along with what to do for the self portrait project…we are all going to be in Paris at Magnum meeting and we are all traveling now from various locations…crazy..a few days ago we were all at beach…now Anton is in Japan, Diego is in Italy…point is, just be patient until we all settle down a bit in the next few days….and i am of course ready to get back with you soonest on your project and what we can do…

    cheers, david

  81. Thanks Anton/David for the responses.

    As much as I love the tactile feel of books, the collectibility, the sheer substance, digital editions have so many possibilities with minimal upfront costs/risks. Good to hear Burn and Anton are already thinking about that.

    Travel safe.

  82. Thodoris – Man, if I were rich I’d hop on a jet just so I could see those big prints!

    Eva – Enjoyed N’s family pix (but hope he doesn’t get arrested by overzealous authorities) and for some reason, find myself feeling a little less bad that I never took my camera onto the battlefield. I always thought that sooner or later I would but now I think I am too old.

    Which is kind the reverse of how it ought to be, if you think about it. The old photogs who have lived a life ought to be the ones covering the battlefield and the young ones who still need to live ought to be staying home, just as the old people should reverse places with the young ones they send into battle in their stead.

  83. Bill.. I hope not.. about the family pics I mean! And I just wish, there were no battlefields to cover..

    Civi.. will do my best to report (for now nine hours drive and some cat scratches later).. but you must promise me one thing.. can you do? Just say: yes, ok.. ok?

    Thodoris.. that’s inches or centimeters??

  84. BRIAN..

    yes, exactly…digi editions for iPad etc are the new newspapers and magazines…books will become even more “fine” and not for mass distribution but for the “collectible” feel and purpose…neither being mutually exclusive of the other in terms of what we as photographers need to be thinking about…

    cheers, david

  85. Bill, I’m trying to navigate the local bureaucracy in order to gain some support to bring these pictures across the pond… maybe, just maybe you’ll get to see them at some point…

    Eva, the big prints are 80x110cm, a tiny bit bigger than 30×40″

  86. Gordon, Happy Belated Father’s Day to you, too! Looks like you had a blast :-) I really like the first shot and IMG_9344; very Sam Abell-esqe…

    DAH and all, I’ve been wondering about this for a while: While I don’t doubt that electronic distribution of photo works is the prevailing medium of the future, why does it seem that the iPod/iPad is main platform getting consideration? Is it the standardized screen that allows the photographer to tailor the e-book to his/her vision? I could certainly understand that. Is it the distribution through iTunes? (It would great to eventually have cross-platform versions, although the presentation might still be subject to a user’s hardware settings).

  87. a civilian-mass audience

    EVA,VIVA…I promise…YES,I CAN…

    hmmm…I can’t be around to report…lately…electricity is on and off…
    big strike from the company…
    grecoland is in war
    “greece in reverse”
    doesn’t feel right…
    I am out on the streets…fighting the invisible enemy…
    Where are you Spirits?…can you bring some sense to those …in need…

    I will try to be back…and…I Love you ALLLL
    keep shooting…safe travels…focus my BURNIANS

  88. Justin
    Thanks for looking. It is always interesting what people respond to, never what I expect.
    This was a too hasty edit. I am a terrible editor of my own stuff. Second time through tonight, I would post a whole new edit.
    Love my life, love making photographs. DAH, thankyou yet once again for burn.

    I’m feeling for the Greek people. Tough times. No platitudes for you. I hope for the best, but I fear tougher times are coming not only for Greeks, but for all of us.

  89. Civi… your email is still working? Sending you one.. now must drive South 4 hours and sit through a court session, hoping the next one will be the decisive and last one.. leaving the cat with mom and her two cats.. not happy, but no better solution I could come up with.. you keep staying strong!

  90. a civilian-mass audience

    GORDON…now is the time

    REVOLUTION…I demand revolution now…

    now,is the time…WTF…I AM MASSSSSSSSSS
    wake up people
    revolution everywhere…enough is enough
    I am not angry
    I am confident
    and optimistic…REVOLUTION NOW…

    I am out fighting…I don’t care where are you in the Unviverse…
    now,it is the time for “your revolution”

    be safe…BE YOU…be humble BUT DEMAND your “freedom”

  91. a civilian-mass audience

    BURNIANS…MR.HARVEY…this is what I call family
    this is my FAMILY
    don’t you dare touch this family…
    ok,I am in a certain age…
    I can only take this much…
    tears,nice tears…
    EVA…I love you BUT please,please,let me travel light…I am on a mission…
    I can’t carry any books…not now…

    This is the letter received from EVA…sorry EVA BUT I have to make a point…
    this is my family…
    “Civi.. you promised, so you must do, no way out there! Anton will ask for a shipping address, I don’t need to know, don’t want to know, but you must give him one.. and he’ll send his book over to you.. as you know I’ll see him in a couple days in Paris and I’ll pay him for your copy of the book.. no NO accepted! I alsready told him!

    Off.. best wishes and much strenght coming your way, con affetto, Eva”…

    LOVE.LOVE and ouzo

  92. a civilian-mass audience

    EVA…again,I am really sorry…for doing this…
    I hope you will understand
    I am not myself lately

    PLEASE,please,accept my apology…I am wrong…I should not put something so private out there
    you know I love you and I love this family
    and I want to show to the next generation
    that there is hope,there is humanity…just we have to BELIEVE

    humbly yours

  93. ROSS

    Martin Parr was never able to get the access from WalMart that we needed..too much controversy , too many lawyers…at least so far….we never give up trying…


    i think we should be saying mobile devices rather than only iPad…the iPad has generated a whole new world all by itself, but there are others, will be others….and some will just prefer always their desktop….and ultimately it all ends up on a big flat screen anyway..as we are building out JOOK from the Mississippi blues workshop, playing on the iPad and then watching it on the flat screen for group viewing is just too cool for school….none of this will take away from the hard copy book either..it’s all good….

  94. off this morning for Paris…yes for our annual Magnum meeting…my invited guests for the Magnum fete from Burn are Eva Kunst, John Gladdy, Anton Kusters, Diego Orlando, Sara T’Rula (Framers), and Paul Parker…basically these were the photographers who asked me first after i quizzed everyone here, and i cannot bring any more at this point..however, if you are in Paris and want to meet, just leave a note for me here, and i will do my best to at least have coffee with you….i will be in Paris through Sunday…

  95. CIVI

    Keep standing up for what you believe and know it is right. There comes a time when persons of conscience must turn words to action and this is YOUR time. Be as safe as you can and stay strong. I know from the inside the passion and commitment you are feeling right now as I spent most of George W. Bush’s 8 years as President out on the streets demonstrating for freedom and democracy. It was the only way I could survive that terrible chapter in my country’s history. You are doing it for ALL of us and we stand beside you in spirit. You are not alone!

    in solidarity,

  96. Jeff

    BTW that film “The tree of life” looks utterly incredible, hoping it to see it. Oh and the soundtrack is amazing “Smetana Ma Vlast: No. 2. Vltava (Moldau)”

  97. PAUL

    never saw that video clip before…hmmm, who was that woman? no clue…i have not danced that style since i was in high school or something, so not quite sure how that happened…but obviously it did!! these days, there is no way to get away with anything…well, barely

  98. David
    Who knows! Maybe you’ll see this young woman again on Thursday, she could be one of the many faithful silent Burnians :)).

  99. Civi.. gonna answer you here, since it’s now here anyway..

    Listen, there’s nothing, absolutely nothing amazing in spending some money. So I’m sorry, but you’re wrong in your mail.

    What IS amazing is YOU.. the spirit you keep, the glue you are, the love and passion you share here, THAT is amazing.. YOU are amazing.. and never would I have thought I’d say that about someone I don’t even know..

    So. We said no NO. You promised. You gotta keep the promise and give Anton an address.. if you travel light you can give him an address of a friend, of family, wherever on the globe (don’t think he does moon shipping, but with him one never knows!), and you can pick up the book whenever you want, for how long you want.. and do with it what you want.. but you MUST page through it a few times. Ok? No NO!

    It’s my birthday gift. You can’t say no.

    Did I say NO is not an option? :)

  100. Civi – whatever happens down there, and its all a mystery to me since I have always had the impression of Greece as a place of enlightenment, you stay safe.

    Paul – So that is what you all do at these things when I am off standing on a slab of ice somewhere. Whoa… David can dance!

  101. Frostfrog

    Happy summer solstice from just north of the 49th parallel. I know this is a special time in the north, payback for the dark winters.
    After a cool wet spring, today is the first day that actually feels summer like here on Vancouver Island. At about 9:20 tonight I felt the sudden urge to document this longest day of the year. My beautiful wife Martha in her garden http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/image/135778514
    I am so thankful for my life.

  102. Gordon; What do you mean Summer Solstice? It’s the shortest day here! :-)

    Bill; I didn’t realise that in some places peeing is an extreme sport! ;-)

  103. We’ve had a real mild autumn/early winter here in NZ (not Aus). Grass still growing and only a couple of frosts; very strange… The skifields are screaming out for snow; but no joy so far.

  104. Paul,

    I’ll probably be able to also attend Magnum’ fiesta ;)
    Let’s have a drink! I’ll tell you about NYC’s latest, you’ll tell me about your balance between work/dad!

    All & DAH,

    I’d like to meet the other Burnians who’ll be there too!
    And, David, since I missed Look3 (was my b-day), maybe I can take you up on your offer of a coffee while you’re in Paris?

    Sinceres félicitations pour ton superbe travail! (Eric E a raison)

    Best, T.

  105. Panos…

    Cool technology! But there was this from the article: “For a photographer, whether amateur or professional, the Lytro technology means that the headaches of focusing a shot go away.”

    I had no idea focusing was so painful for some! Haha!

    A while ago, I remember seeing a commercial about “making pasta easier!” I thought, making pasta is already easy! How much “easier” do you need it to be? It’s like those jars of peanut butter with jelly already mixed in… how fucking lazy are these people!?

  106. yeah …….. ……………. but they cant figure how to put a nice sensor in a smaller body ….. which is what photographers have been complain for years….

  107. but they cant figure how to put a nice sensor in a smaller body …..
    they did, they just simply love to overcharge!

  108. my fear about Lytro is that this new form of laziness will also going to bring even more scrutiny on photography since the photoshop intro years ago…After the cloning tool , now the “focus later” tool etc..
    but maybe im overacting..whats the problem of view and focus later? at this point i have no idea..ive procrastinated all my life and now do i have another reason? to leave it all for later, tomorrow? or even let the client chose? i think its time to start experimenting with different mediums..Photography became too “fancy” lately!

  109. sitting on porch nursing sunburn, looking at beginnings of sunset.. seagulls and gorecki symphony nr. 3 quietly echoing.. sunset will last for the next couple of hours and peak just before midnight.

  110. will the Lytro make other photography obsolete? I don’t think so. It is widening the possibilities.
    Some people will use it and master it, some will not use it and still make superior pictures.
    If the moment is missed, the moment is missed. No Lytro sensor will save a missed picture.

    There will be new horizons, and the old ones still exist.

  111. DAH

    You walked through a plate glass door because there was a beautiful woman on the other side??? My oh my, that must have been one BEAUTIFUL woman! So sorry to hear this news. Facial wounds are so bloody that they scare the hell out of everyone. And a broken nose. Painful injury that! Sending healing energy your way…


  112. David, you walked into a glass door at Magnum Paris, and Michael K asked if anyone got a photo? I can just imagine the scenario; you walk into the door, every one of your Magnum colleagues AND your dear, invited guests, take photos and videos of the aftermath and then ask you if you are o.k. Am I right or am I right?

    Laughing David, with you, not at you. Seriously, hope you are o.k.


  113. a civilian-mass audience

    What a fighter you are MR.HARVEY…one of the best…!!!
    you don’t walk away…
    you walk into…
    you walk through
    revolutionary indeed:)!

    “I am capable of the best and the worst, but at worst, I’m the best.”

    welcome to the club,amigo…now,when I see you…we can do the cracking,crunching nose dance and
    blame the wine…:)))))))))))

  114. a civilian-mass audience

    GORDON…flowers looks good…hmmm…I am not a flower person…
    MARTHA looks best…I am a person person…

  115. a civilian-mass audience

    OUR PATRICIA…good to know…you have been there…
    I will do as you say…
    stay strong…it worked before…right?!!!

  116. a civilian-mass audience

    JEFF…I can dance too…like MR.HARVEY…
    yeap,I will show you one day…:)

  117. a civilian-mass audience

    FROSTFROGY…I like bears…
    at least you are not alone …up there…:)
    yes,it’s BURNing down here…but I am not alone either:)!!!

  118. a civilian-mass audience

    you have witnessed DAH …”breaking the rules”
    don’t worry…
    revolution times…
    this is the first and the last time I will say this:
    DO NOT DO AS HARVEY:))))))))))

    oups,JEFF…I forgot the viva:))))))


  119. a civilian-mass audience

    WHAT NOT TO LOVE…I am so proud of YOU…
    I accept your birthday gift
    I will pick up the book in Italy…
    I am coming over…
    but,but…BUT…Yeap,there is a BUT…

    you will have to show me…some of your work
    as YOU had promised…

    see you soon in Italy…BURN LADIES are the Best…

    Please,take care the BURNING boys there…they tend to BURN all over:)))))))))))

  120. a civilian-mass audience

    MAGNUM AND LEICA …marriage…damnit…
    what do I know
    I am just a civilian:)))

    WHAT NOT TO LOVE…MR.HARVEY…you are full of surprises…
    I expect only the best…from you…
    damnit …you are crazy dude::))))))))))))

    LOVE ,PEACE AND PHOTOGRAPHY…walk through……………

  121. DAVID!!!!!
    a broken nose?!?!?!!?
    I can’t help but laugh (knowing you’re ok)
    what a great story…..
    in paris……
    beautiful women
    glass doors……
    glad you’re ok…..

  122. Paul
    “Smetana Ma Vlast: No. 2. Vltava (Moldau)”

    I’ve heard so much about this film, and can’t wait to see it. Delighted to learn the soundtrack is Smetana’s Moldau. I was intoduced to this music in a high school music class and it has always stayed with me. It is a beautiful piece, and opened up a whole new musical world for me.

  123. a civilian-mass audience

    GORDON…now,we can …when the “damage” had started…back then…:))))))))

  124. a civilian-mass audience

    MR.HARVEY…forget the ice…put raw potato…cut a potato(half) and apply on the face,especially
    under the eyes…the bruise will go away…
    ancient greek remedy…

    P.S…KIM can you hear me…potato for the bruises…trust me on this one!

  125. a civilian-mass audience

    …we had a maintenance break…
    all of our ADMINS…are doing the best to keep BURNLAND…BURNing
    ok…back to our regular program:

    BURNIANS…DO NOT MISS to visit OUR family…AUDREY’S home
    MIPE à Dol de Bretagne
    du 18 juin au 3 juillet 2011

    Exposition « Brigitte et Bernard »
    Espace Médiévalys
    4 Place de la Cathédrale
    35 120 Dol-de-Bretagnehibition


  126. a civilian-mass audience

    Breaking news…

    YAKUZA has been selected for Prix Voies Off in ARLES. Night screening of my images on july 6th. fingers crossed… http://t.co/dIZv12x


  127. Ouch. Beautiful woman, broken nose, blood everywhere, sounds familiar. No glass door though. The medical attention was worse than the break. “You might feel a little pressure” is one of the worst phrases in the English language.

  128. a civilian-mass audience

    and TOM HYDE,YOUNG is around…

    we just need AKAKY…IMANTS,maybe to top this…oime

    Got to go…I am a fighter after all…

    LOVE YOU MY BURNIANS…walk in,walk through;)

  129. Civi.. :)

    Sorry.. busy talking walking loking eating chatting, all fine.. all VERY fine, except for one nose..
    Anton’s book is quite something.. great.. beautiful.. crafted with love.. and you can see and feel it..

    Off for the night, hugs to all from all of us here :)

  130. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSsFKIFN8_o

    YES YES!!

    ……oh, and I must lay off the mini bar cognac.

    bon apetit!

  131. DAH
    Oh no amigo! I trust you at least will have plenty of help and things to relieve the pain. And that the pretty woman noticed…a broken nose is no fun, hope you heal quickly.

    Laughed out loud at those comments. True, indeed. Give me a shout about the print we talked about, want to work something out with you.

    JOHN G
    HOpe someone else is picking up the minibar tab! Last time I looked at the price list, they wanted $8US for a bag of M&Ms. I’m sure the cognac is similarly priced.

    Sent off that envelope, hope it arrived.

    good light, all

  132. First, a nice word to Jim Powers: Thanks for the link! Today you put a smile on my face.

    Gordon – Lovely shot of your wonderful wife and I am glad you have a good life way down south there. Keep shooting it.

    Ross – You are really south! I have always wanted to go to NZ. Some pictures that I have seen of some places in NZ look like some places that I have been in Alaska. I want to go to New Zealand!

    Panos – Whoa! That is incredible! I would like to discover how to do that. I would put it to a good cause, too – funding my work and feeding cats.

    Civi – You stay safe. The dangers around you sound great than those around polar bears.

    DAH – John says not to laugh and I didn’t – but after a grimmace, I did chuckle. It is both the best and worst excuse. Best, because it shows you still have the fire of a young man in you and if you didn’t there would be no burn. Worst because… I don’t what is worst about it. It’s good enough for me. I understand completely.

  133. @ ALL THE PARIS BURNIANS: Enjoy the bal/party/fiesta/soiree with the whole team somewhere in that wonderful city. By the way, who is in charge of a brief report (with some pictures) like Panos in Charlottesville?

    Hope have a Burn fiesta in Perpignan aside the mediteranean sea after the pro-week :-)


  134. DAH:
    PAUL, never saw that video clip before…hmmm, who was that woman? no clue…i have not danced that style since i was in high school or something, so not quite sure how that happened…but obviously it did!!
    these days, there is no way to get away with anything…

    absolutely, not if you invite me, nothing escapes me, David, you know by now…. These were clips I made available 3 years ago on Road Trip with a whole series of shots taken 3 years ago, created the account expressly to that purpose. Guess what, remember you broke your glasses that night. I still have one half of them in France. I must have been sDAHrstruck then! :-)))

    How about dancing with these women, remember?:

    I hope you guys had as much fun. 11.45PM in Paris, as I speak, The Magnum party by now is out of champagne, and you heading towards darker streets, with our BURN contingent…..

  135. “I walked into clear glass door Magnum Paris.Lots blood ambulance broken nose.There was a beautiful woman on other side.Good excuse or worst?”

    This is a very good excuse and think of the wonders you did for that young lady’s ego. Nothing bolsters a young woman’s self-esteem quite as much as causing an accident simply by walking by.*

    *Note: All protests from women to the contrary will be referred to IRL, who will not be as nice about your protests as I will. You have been warned.

  136. Patricio…..
    I am definitely not in charge of the LOOK3 summary…..
    but here are some shots i took…..
    also Patricia has some posted on her blog and andrew b has a nice slideshow too……
    What Not To LOVE???

    Now we need Paris photos!!!!!!!!

  137. a civilian-mass audience

    Goodmorning …reporting from the scapegoat Greece…
    6:15 a.m here…5:15 in Paris
    don’t expect any reports from our BURNIANS there…they are all snoring
    especially the ONE with the broken nose…
    at least they are BURNING…:)))…hmmm…we are waiting for reports

    BURNIANS…it’s all about currency power and politics
    my Greek people,the real civilians are suffering
    like the real civilians in every country…
    please,don’t visit grecoland in the next few weeks…cause you won’t be able to see and enjoy
    the beauty of this country…oime…
    according to the politicians…”the surgery will be a success BUT the patient will die”
    yes,the people will die
    BUT I promise this…I will fight for a honorable death…

    FROSTY,ANDREWB,MIKER…”stay safe” is not in my agenda:))))))))))))))))
    HERVE…credit back to you
    PANOS,PATRICIA,WENDY…amazing reports
    Paris BURNIANS…show us what YOU got…

    EVA…ALL BURNIANS there…we love YOU…

  138. a civilian-mass audience

    and yes…ANDREWB…with another BURNING report

    yes,yes,yes…credit when credit is due!!!

    I am out of ouzo BUT I have olives…VIVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA with olives(organic)
    don’t say to the IMF

  139. a civilian-mass audience

    ANDREWB…another amazing report…
    credit when credit is due

    I am out of ouzo…BUT I am bringing olives(organic)…
    shhh…don’t say that to the IMF

  140. a civilian-mass audience

    ANDREWB…amazing link…credit when credit is due…

    I am out of ouzo BUT I am bringing olives(organic)
    don’t tell that to the IMF…shhhhhhhh

  141. a civilian-mass audience

    and JIM…please,don’t accept the key for the civilian’s home…
    cause we just lost the door…therefore no key needed:))))

    I will be back

  142. a civilian-mass audience


    stay strong…risk everything…WE ARE BURNIANS…WE CAN WALK THROUGH DOORS…:)))

    be back

  143. Civi,

    Thank you so much!! It’s a small photo festival, but great place with great people! My parent were there :)


    CONGRATULATIONS!!! My fingers and my toes are crossed ;)

    Big hugs! audrey

  144. David, I’m very sorry to hear about your accident. I know from similar experience that those kind of things can be very painful. Best wishes for a speedy recovery…

  145. @ ALL:

    “Il y a cette espece de demagogie qui veut qu’on regarde le monde, et pourtant, en voyageant, on se regarde soi-meme”

    A quote from ERRANCE a book of Raymond Depardon, below the translation (mine)

    “There is a kind of demagogy which push us to look at the world, meanwhile traveling, we look at yourself”

    Congrats Audrey to the exhibition in France, the gallery looks very warm with a lot of natural light

    @ DAH & JOHN V.: No new members in Magnum, as I read in the BJP. No engaged photographers? No good stories? Few submissions with journalistic/photographic commitement?

    Enjoy summer

  146. Nose? girl? … someone wrote about Paris photo (or it was photo in Paris)? Burn camera bag (I don’t know what colour it will be but I’m sure I can’t do without)? Meeting in Rome (my house is at disposition..), Perpignan evening screenings (on BURN 02…it sound I’ve already dreamt of it)… Anton book (I can’t do without but this is more easy.. I just have to buy it from Burn or to steel the copy Anton is bringing to Paris). Self portrait? (About that I’m with Akaky)

    Something new? Audrey, Marta, me and some other Burnian are going to Rencontres d’Arles from 2 until 9 of july (Yes I know the professional week will start on July the 4th but… we have lot’s of things to do to see to visit to drink to meet). So if you are around contact us (email me or Audrey to have a telephone number to contact).
    We will have a Burn meeting in Arles.
    For sure we will be to Anton Voies Off presentation!!

    Forgot something?

  147. love this…

    Between Nothingness and Eternity

    Barren of events,
    Rich in pretensions
    My earthly life.

    My real name.

    Wholly unto myself
    I exist.

    I wrap no soul
    In my embrace.

    No mentor worthy
    Of my calibre
    Have I.

    I am all alone
    Between failure
    And frustration.

    I am the red thread
    And Eternity.

    Excerpt from “My Flute” by Sri Chinmoy

  148. a civilian-mass audience

    goodmorning…reporting from grecolandia…7 a.m
    don’t expect any reports from BURNIANS in Paris…they are still snoring…6a.m there

    we just cross our toes…they are all ok…:)

    EVA and the other BURNIANS…maybe you have to keep an eye on MR.HARVEY
    by all means,DO NOT …I repeat DO NOT …visit the Louvre Museum…lot’s of glass:)))
    well…have fun and enjoy every F.second

    from the BURNIANS here in BURNLAND …we are sending good energy

  149. a civilian-mass audience

    FROSTFROG…good to see you are ok and kicking…

    ALASKA was dancing the earth dance…
    please,keep updating…and pay attention to the cats…
    they know…

  150. a civilian-mass audience

    AUNDREY…congrats…keep BURNING…our silent power!!!
    Hugs to our family!

  151. a civilian-mass audience

    VISSARIA…yes,yes…happy summmer…
    oime…I love the sun
    I follow the sun
    I am a peguin in heart…geez…blame the olives

  152. a civilian-mass audience

    CHARLES and DAVIDB…need updates from our young BURNIANS…

    BOBBY BLACK…updates too

    MIKER…bring a story over…

    MICHAELK…same goes for you…

    AUSSIES…do you feel the cold?are you in or out?:)


    HERVE…are u in Paris?

    geez..u are too many…electricity on and off

    I am fighting for a honorable death…out of coffee…BUT who needs coffee…when I have YOU
    keep BURNING
    what’s wrong with you:)))))))))))))

  153. No pics fom me, made none.. my brain is full though, and like in the develop tray, what will stay with me is crystalizing out of the massive input :)

    CIVI.. Anton’s waiting for an address, no kidding! Am working on what I promised, very hard, travelling gets in the way too often, but no excuse, I’ll do it!

  154. REPORT!!



  155. a civilian-mass audience

    regarding book…ANTON will explain…
    shipping for greece is 25 euros,iou…therefore,My copy is waiting in USA…
    deal closed…I am really sorry BUT,BUT,BUT
    EVA …I need a favor though
    when I see you in Italy,wine on You…hmmm,not fair,oups:)


    P.S…HERVE…you are right…”For now, just pretend this was last Thursday…”

  156. a civilian-mass audience

    ohhhh,EVA,…and I have to pay taxes too…
    if I knew these money will go to ANTON…then YES,
    and If I knew you have lot’s of dough to cook
    then YES
    but until that time…I will say THANK YOU for now
    wine on you though…your place
    now,I know,you have Italian blood and oime…I can see your hands throwing fingers on the air…
    hugs back to YOU

    I will be back…electricity is ok,for now:)))

  157. a civilian-mass audience

    To all my European and to all my friends in the Universe…

    Please,don’t believe the “myths” about Greece

    Greek people are not lazy and they don’t try to have you finance their “lazines”.
    I have all the facts…Yes,I have facts…numbers,statistics…

    and please,don’t blame ouzo,olives and chickens with the money crisis…
    IMF… International M…F…

    LOVE YOU ALLLL…back to our regular reporting

  158. CIVI… taxes and shipping are included in the book.. I know it would be more reasonable to send coffee and chicken food.. but, oh my, being reasonable never was on my agenda.. address please.. the book isn’t in the USA anyway.. wine on me is ok, you’ll have to pick brand though, got no clue.. driving south with thingy, mom and dad.. HOT crazy HOT..

  159. La Marche des Fiertes (Gay pride parade) was this afternoon in Paris. It’s a lot more fun and carefree than what they do here in San Francisco, where the nazi security does everything to make sure people have no fun and stay herded behind fences. I hope the Burnians in Paris took the chance to participate. David, too, maybe….

  160. REPORT!




  162. Civi – Yes, the quake was hardly felt here. We never know about the next one, though. Sooner or later, another biggie is coming. I will keep updating… just have to restrain it a bit for awhile so that I can do it better in the future.

    Herve – just got an email newsreader update from the Anchorage Daily News. Anchorage also had a Pridefest parade scheduled for today but right as it was beginning, there was a terrible accident and the car carrying the grand marshall ran over and killed a man. Yesterday I had been thinking that if I did not have so much I must do, I could go into Anchorage and photograph the parade.

    John Gladdy and Civi – Judging from the pictures I have seen, Eva is indeed lovely. It is late June, no time to leave Alaska for Paris, but what fun it sounds like it could be…

    I suppose that if someone had come to me and given me a plane ticket to Paris, I would have went despite the time of year…

  163. a civilian-mass audience

    EVA…I will plea the fifth amendment…
    i am going for double jeopardy here…
    ANTON’S first book(magazine)…
    now ANTON’S second one..
    EVA…book is in my door

    THANK YOU,THANK you…HUGS,safe travels…focus,you carry precious load!

    MIKER…read to my chickens?…hmmm…good distraction

    PANOS,HERVE…keep reporting…!!!

  164. a civilian-mass audience

    AKAKY…AKAKYIRL…I am in awe!!!
    your reports…hmmm…from twilight zone indeed!

    FROSTFROG…We LOVE you,mate…best news…when we see you FROSTING up there…!
    VIVA to ALASKA and to the people North…!
    and yes,EVA is indeed lovely!

  165. a civilian-mass audience

    Special Olympics (2011 – Athens)
    “I know I can”


    Go Athens…go Universe…people from all over the world…be United

  166. a civilian-mass audience

    oime…he is MAGNUM…
    hiii…too many MAGNUM’S around…WHAT NOT TO LOVE

    he is reporting…amazing reports…from Paris…
    I have not asked for permission therefore my apologies in advance
    BUT I am out of time…lately
    and out of electricity…
    well…here some light from our lovely friends

    Thank you MR.VINK …and bravo!!!you are a lovely reporter!!!!!!!!!!!!

  167. I almost clicked off this essay because of the toy camera shots that begin it, but after the photographer put down the Holga, it turned into a strong essay on conflict. Thought some might be interested. It’s the story on the Lebanon Conflict by Stephanie Sinclair on VII The Magazine:


  168. Civi… thanks for accepting :)

    Bill… never believe what’s written.. and pics lie also!

  169. Eva is hyper-organised, Gladdy is generous with everything but most especially his time and his advice, and Paul has a huge heart. Anton and Diego are yin and yang, and I now have a copy of Yakuza. David is a master of following his nose…

    Back in London and looking for a place to process the c41 b&w I shot, and working with my Russians. Learned so much on this trip. And it was a perfect chance to touch base with some old friends while also meeting new ones.

  170. I like it how JIM POWERS has the need to say something ugly to begin with …. even if later he wants to say something nice …….

  171. Jim; I was the complete opposite… Turned the slideshow off after the Holga images had finished. The rest was similar to the stuff I’ve seen 100 times before… Cheers

  172. Man, I really gotta go with Ross big time on that one. I was loving the color images and then she totally lost me with the black and white. Were those really taken with a toy camera? Seems totally in control to me.

  173. Ya know, I’m not at all opposed to mixing color and b&w in a narrative, I do it all the time. I just don’t see how it works here. Guessing the color from the shades of grey, I’m confident that the great majority of those black and whites would have been equally good more likely better in color. Of course if it’s file, the question is moot… Remind me… why do people still shoot film?

  174. David; Re; The Nose… I did exactly the same thing in Vanuatu once; walked in from bright tropical sunlight into a dark room and straight into a glass door; no pretty woman involved worse luck! Nothing injured except my pride. Thankfully all the ni-Vanuatu office workers who witnessed the event didn’t laugh. Ni-Vanuatu people have too much respect to laugh at someone’s misfortune; however I’m sure they wanted to! :-)

  175. a civilian-mass audience

    “A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free”

    “I hope for nothing. I fear nothing. I AM FREE.”
    Nikos Kazantzakis


    I am out…I will stay out..as long as it takes…
    but,but…my spirit is here…I am still BURNING,keep BURNING my BURNIANS…I do Love you ALLL

    P.S…EVA thank you.BURNIANS thank you.THANK YOU ALLLL
    and remember this…I will be back

  176. So, just to proove what I wrote in the other aisle (Bruce Gilden’s essay), stuff really happens here.. and/or Burn serves as jumping board.. picked up on twitter feed, Laura El-Tantawy will exhibit at the Third Floor Gallery, along with other photographers:

    “Coming up 19 July – “Arab Revolutions”! Featuring I Prickett, D Nahr, L Addario, G Martin, A Bruce, Y Kozyrev, L El-Tantawy.”


    BUT! one’s gotta do the work first..

  177. To go along with eva’s theme above, I’m reposting a DAH comment over here, for I think it’s part of that approach and what makes BURN this very special place…

    “……so keep commenting for sure…but also, go do some work…the bar will keep getting higher…you have the venue…nobody has any excuses…not Gilden, not you, not me…

    is this not the best of times? empty canvas…let’s paint…”

    This and the comment that was also recently tweeted are sage advice….not only especially for this craft, but I think for life in general. While we sometimes must paint what’s before us, we also have the opportunity to paint as we feel, with our own voice…I’m learning it is terribly important to not only focus on painting what seems to “need” to be painted at the moment.

    Recent situations are forcing me to think about things like the legacy we leave behind, the stories we create that get remembered, shared and treasured, the importance of those around us and not the material and work task world that so often gets top billing and that, in the long-term scheme of things, leaves very little behind…

    Let’s paint, indeed. Good light, all.

  178. Hi everybody!
    Didn’t want to comment round here until I had my Paris images up on my blog, but kid’s summer holidays are making my editing task very slow. Can’t promise when but I hope something before Sunday…why oh why does my workflow go through Lightroom, photoshop and a long and slow plugin :) makes me want to go back to good old Velvia!

  179. I could go on with my images tonight but there’s Anton’s book sitting on my lounge table since Saturday night and it sounds a much more interesting idea…:)

  180. The images from Postcards From America are up on the Magnum site…


    I am finding it enlightening to look at all of them together to contrast the voices of the photographers, and then look at each one’s collection individually for the consistency…playing a little game to see if I can name the photographer when the image title is hidden….

    One thing that seemed to stand out was that there are not many from Paolo Pellegrin. Perhaps more to come?

  181. DAH

    are we destined to skype? :o)

    17 hours at the docks today..
    8am till 1am..
    back in at 8am tomorrow..
    hmm.. fried.

    shooting when i can and primed for stage 2..
    will enlighten you when we get the chance..
    still having to be a little covert..

    hope to catch you soon and show some.
    shooting not talking :o0

  182. “are we destined to Skype?”

    Why does that sound like something you might hear in a Nelson Eddy-Jeannette McDonald musical, especially if you’d taken a large amount of dope first? Then you could hear Nelson and Jeannette breaking into that wonderful old tune, ‘I am Skyping you-oo-oo-oo, will you answer too-oo-oo-oo?” They don’t make them like that anymore, thank God.

  183. Ok.. first half day of four days of shooting over.. to get THE pic.. might have A pic but not IT yet, got cought in the middle of a fight.. blood and bruises, not mine, and a pic taken that I will not show.. there are some unwritten rules, and it won’t be me to break them.. thanks heaven for wrist straps, or my camera would have a different owner by now.. interesting day so far.. need a big kick in the butt to go back..

  184. from facebook

    “A Civilian Mass Audience
    all the greek doctors in ATHENS …that can help in Sintagma…please,ASAP…metro area
    help for protesters…ASAP…ALL The doctors…METRO AREA…
    5 hours ago “

  185. Then again you could destroy your cameras as protest to the actions of the Greek government…………. all for the good of the cause of course

  186. http://news.in.gr/greece/article/?aid=1231115567

    Imants and ALL… if u watch the videos clearly its been proven that cops with no uniforms dressed as anarchists burned the McDonalds in Athens…The 99% of the crowd is absolutely PEACEFUL…i can guarantee all that coz I WAS THERE last yeaR and im going back again..Its a common government/police/army tactic…
    Let me explain further…when any authority wants to ATTACK , first thing they do is to create a “fake Pearl Harbor, a fake 9/11 etc…remember vietnam start?? oh “someone” attacked an american vessel…hmm yea right..
    Do you know what the nazis used to do to occupy a city or a village? same deal..same tactic…they used to kill one of their own soldiers just to create a great reason to attack …
    Now that the IMF and the french/german alliance (euro bank) trapped the South they wont let go that easy…Its money money and money…
    Dont fall for those police strategic tactics my friend.Europe DOES NOT WANT greece or the whole south to wake up…no no no..they dont want greece to default because they will lose billions of fake debt that went to arming the Aegean sea with f-16 that forced greece to buy them..French forced greece to buy all the war boats , Germans buying our debt (like china buys the american debt) like there is no tomorrow…
    And the public most they see is the police provocateurs “dressed as anarchists” breaking the center of athens … literally INVITING THE COPS to attack…
    700 hundred people mostly old people got trapped in the underground subway having the police gassing them ..700 hundred..they were trying to either go to their homes or to participate in the march that most political parties organized..peaceful march…but the euro government they dont like marches..whats the easiest way to stop a march and arrest everyone? hmm easy..throw the stones yourself, create the enemy..the invisible enemy..the so called students and anarchists…bullshit..
    but greeks are like our argentinian brothers…they learned to fight for independence all of their lives..prepared for war…ask the Persians they know how it feels to attack greece…now its time for the “west” to taste the same medicine…
    Im not pro or for violence…no revenge either..but when they stealing your pension, the money u worked all of your life for, when they force to pay fake debts and odious loans then u have to DEFEND YOURSELF…
    ITS NOT eye for eye or tooth for a tooth either..
    no no , its way simpler:
    so yes my friends..dont buy all that bullshit about violence from protesters…no no no..trust me ..i even posted videos that clearly show that the cops/authorities is behind this provocations


  187. I’m sure u heard by now that GREECE IS VIOLENTLY are robbed/RAPED by WALL STREET (Goldman Sachs) , IMF and German/French alliance..
    RESISTING , PROTESTING IS DEMOCRACY… in Greece there was free healthcare and education.. But “they” HATED IT( we , Americans and the French/German alliance ) they/we prefer selling weapons to Greece, put the country in debt and then ask for a bigger APR as we give them another nasty loan and a bad credit card.. America did the same with Argentina but argentinians are no jokes.. They kicked the American IMF OUT and got their independence back.. Now Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy and Ireland got caught into the same wall street game..
    Who’s behind it? Same bankers they humiliated and bankrupt America , all those thousands homeless Americans that lost their houses.. Bush achieved the amazing new debt .. America is way more bankrupt than Greece
    but you are not suppose to know all that..

    They hide from you and me..

    Half of Texas belongs to Saudi Arabia but you’re not suppose to know that either.

    You and me are suppose to stay home watch the Spurs, or the Raiders playing football or the Kardashians and mock all our poor brothers fighting for financial independence… Same with Haiti.. Do u know why the earthquake killed so many? Because we forced them to buy cheap cement/ housing materials etc.. We put them in debt for life after we bought Haiti from France..
    So yes my friend.. What u see in greece is real DEMOCRACY in action.. It’s a fight for dignity and independence.. Someday , hopefully our fellow Americans will wake up and protest too.. Till then let’s keep judging cultures/actions we don’t comprehend coz its easy, entertaining and more fun than watching silly sitcoms like “the office” or “dr House”…
    plz plz…a little research before throwing quick bourgeoisie judgement…
    time to stop worrying about our precious PROPERTY/CAR/WIFE/HUSBAND/BELONGINGS and time to help our brothers that suffering…

  188. Imants i would destroy my cameras myself if i WAS WORKING for the police and i would charge the protesters..but obviously i don’t!
    thats the point im trying to explain nicely to you but obviously point cant go through…
    Apathy wins, i lose

  189. a civilian-mass audience

    Today the Euro has been saved…but a country has been lost…

    “the police provocateurs “dressed as anarchists” breaking the center of athens … literally INVITING THE COPS to attack…” yeap,sad,sad…
    PANOS…we need someone to “tell it like it is”…
    we need you here
    and VISSARIA,bravooo…
    you are witnessing history…oime…I was hoping for a better one;(

    I am tired…very tired…I have to go out again…

    PEACE…BURNIANS,UNIVERSE…don’t blame the civilians…
    we are not to blame…not this time,I know…
    PEACE,PEACE but do not give up…revolution …I keep calling for revolution
    revolution that brings Evolution…not blood,death and darkness…
    I call for the revolution for human dignity…

    P.S…be back…I LOVE U ALLLLLL

  190. Imants, sorry for my speech , nothing personal..its just i know a few journalists there, ive been there IN PERSON and i saw how the police “works the crowd”…Police starting the violence, then they back up..they poke they poke and poke until some hotheaded idiots will respond or if the “hotheaded idiots” are not willing to help the cops, then the UNDERCOVER cops PRETENDING they are protesters come to help…then the CAVALRY needs to arrive for “help” bullshit..im telling u, i know how it works…im very experienced in police tactics…
    very very experienced im afraid…given that i was a student in athens ..i know the “scene” very very well..
    but greeks UNLIKE americans they dont buy shit like that..In LA i saw cops shooting 30 rounds on one guy that hesitated to come out of his car on time…right in Santa Monica with tons of cars people walking by but cops could care less…next day it wasnt even at the news…
    now, try to go do this in greece, italy, spaIN..you’re up for a big surprise!

  191. a civilian-mass audience

    goodnight from beautiful grecolandia…or the abyss…

    I am fighting for a honorable death…
    hmmm…we follow…

    keep BURNING MY BURNIANS…respect

  192. well CIVI…you know I CANT AFFORD the tickets ..im scraping every penny to maKE it to Athens late September..maybe i should start a kickstarter program…i dont need much…i can eat street food and sleep at friends couches..no need for hotels..its just the damn air fare tickets i cant afford!!!!!!!!!!
    but instead of breaking my camera as Imants very positively suggested above , i’d try to sell it and shoot with the freaky iphone..who cares anyway?

  193. a civilian-mass audience

    PEACE is my middle name…FKoff is my last…:)))

    VIVA…ouzo on ME!

  194. a civilian-mass audience

    and remember all…CIVILIAN’S house is open…for ALL of you…

    I am here standing…olives,chickens and ouzo…hmmm…bring some wine…

    ok,running…hmmm… I smell weird…I better walk:)

  195. a civilian-mass audience

    EVA…where are you? where is the blood and bruises…are you in grecolandia?

  196. stay strong Civi..
    we still have Gandhi and Che Guevara, and Frida on our side…(and how exciting that none of them is greek right?)
    you see struggle has no country..Struggle is struggle..We shall overcome…Ask Dr, Martin L.King, he knows a thing or two about struggle…Ask Gandhi…that tiny little guy with his John Lennon glasses that beat the hell out of that British Empire and turned it back to a harmless island ..then they picked up guitars , formed the Beatles the Stones and Zeppelin and re-conquered the world (smiling)..
    Maybe Paris Hilton or Pippa or the Queen of England care more about their PROPERTY value than other humans but
    we do care…oh yes we do!

  197. (and no offense towards my great british and english friends here of course…Gandhi’s achievement to be seen as an bright example and not as an offense towards my friends here)
    England struggles too btw ..check the debt they accumulated but they were smart enough to not join the euro..they kept their currency..smart move!

  198. thanks Bob!



    Making the Argument for Greece’s Austerity Plan
    Published: June 28, 2011

    The Greek Parliament is prepared to vote on austerity measures on Wednesday, and its people have been gathering in demonstrations and strikes to protest the cuts. Here is an open letter explaining why members of Parliament would be crazy to vote no:

    John Kolesidis/Reuters
    The Greek financial crisis has raised doubts about its decision to use the euro.

    “Dear Greeks,

    The anger you feel about your plight is understandable. You are staring at several unpalatable options, all of which will involve big cuts in living standards for years to come. But the choices are not equally bad. You must avoid an emotional reaction that leaves you in an even worse state. And you should ostracize those who resort to violence.

    One option is to persuade your politicians to say no to the austerity plan set forth by the euro zone and the International Monetary Fund. That proposal is not perfect. But rejecting it outright would be childish.

    If there is no agreed plan, you will get no money. The consequence wouldn’t be just that the government defaults on the loans it took out on your behalf. There would be a run on your banks and an even deeper recession. You would probably also lose your remaining friends in Europe.

    That’s not to say you should repay all your debts. Even with Herculean efforts, that won’t be possible. But you can probably negotiate an orderly default some time in the next year. An orderly default would cut your debts, say in half, but in the context of an agreed broader program that provided you with enough money to survive until you are healthier.

    You might ask why you can’t have an “orderly” default now. Wouldn’t that be better than waiting? Yes, if an orderly default could be agreed on now. Unfortunately, the rest of Europe isn’t yet ready for your default. So it won’t agree on one; and that, by definition, means a default now would be disorderly.

    Fast forward a few months, though, and the rest of Europe might be in better shape to withstand a Greek debt restructuring, particularly if the Continent used the time well and shored up its banks. You, too, might be in better position to negotiate a new package — provided that you recapitalize your own banks and squeeze your budget deficit so you are less dependent on external financing.

    There’s no denying this would be painful. Your challenge isn’t just to cut the deficit but also to restore your economic competitiveness. That means further cuts in living standards.

    Is there a shortcut to avoid this pain? Wouldn’t bringing back the drachma restore competitiveness? Probably not. It’s true you should never have joined the euro. But nobody has yet come up with a way of putting this particular toothpaste back in the tube without creating a giant mess.

    Again, the weak link is your banks. If your compatriots thought the drachma was about to return, at what would be a much lower rate, they would be crazy to keep their money in a Greek bank. There would be a panic before the new drachmas were even minted.

    All this may seem terribly unfair, and to an extent it is. Politicians of both major parties have let you down for decades. They presided over a monstrously inefficient public sector, often staffed by friends and clients. They spent too much money and then cheated on the figures so Greece could get into the euro. Corruption and tax evasion have been rampant and have gone largely unpunished.

    You can also blame foreigners for your plight. Foreign banks were among those that lent you all that money. Some also helped you fiddle with your figures. And the rest of the euro zone turned a blind eye when you ran up astronomical debts. But remember: your creditors, both banks and governments, won’t get off scot-free. When you default, they will pay a hefty price.

    You should also realize you are not blameless. Many of you were evading taxes and enjoying those highly paid public-sector jobs; most of you were consuming more than you produced and retiring too early. You also voted for your useless politicians.

    By all means, protest. But focus on the right goals. Don’t spite yourself by turning away foreign help. What’s more, keep it peaceful.”

    For more independent financial commentary and analysis, visit http://www.breakingviews.com.

  199. did you see the economist on Democracy Now?….he uses the example of Argentina…they defaulted on the IMF and after 1 quarter of a downturn, eventually recovered and turned their economy around, as soon as they escaped the IMF and as soon as they attached their economy to the Dollar…i agree with Panos, this is just play by the ‘wealthy’, won’t say wealthy european nations, cause all nations are now connected…just madness…my hope is the ‘greece’ will long out live this day, or the imf….but i’m afraid i see this as a larger issue…everyone wants their meat (wealth/fame)..even here sometimes which depresses me…anyway…

    my hopes for the long term over measures…greece is already hemorraging, austerity measures will not correct, nor agreeing with the imf bailout….

    read up on argentina…

  200. You can also blame foreigners for your plight. Foreign banks were among those that lent you all that money. Some also helped you fiddle with your figures. And the rest of the euro zone turned a blind eye when you ran up astronomical debts. But remember: your creditors, both banks and governments, won’t get off scot-free. When you default, they will pay a hefty price.

  201. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Monetary_Fund

    Argentina, which had been considered by the IMF to be a model country in its compliance to policy proposals by the Bretton Woods institutions, experienced a catastrophic economic crisis in 2001,[31] which some believe to have been caused by IMF-induced budget restrictions—which undercut the government’s ability to sustain national infrastructure even in crucial areas such as health, education, and security—and privatization of strategically vital national resources.[3

    Impact on access to food
    A number of civil society organizations[36] have criticized the IMF’s policies for their impact on people’s access to food, particularly in developing countries. In October 2008, former U.S. president Bill Clinton presented a speech to the United Nations World Food Day, which criticized the World Bank and IMF for their policies on food and agriculture:
    We need the World Bank, the IMF, all the big foundations, and all the governments to admit that, for 30 years, we all blew it, including me when I was president. We were wrong to believe that food was like some other product in international trade, and we all have to go back to a more responsible and sustainable form of agriculture.
    —Former U.S. president Bill Clinton, Speech at United Nations World Food Day, October 16, 2008[37

  202. IMF Impact on public health

    In 2008 a study by analysts from Cambridge and Yale universities published on the open-access Public Library of Science concluded that strict conditions on the international loans by the IMF resulted in thousands of deaths in Eastern Europe by tuberculosis as public health care had to be weakened. In the 21 countries to which the IMF had given loans, tuberculosis deaths rose by 16.6%

    tuberculosis deaths rose by 16.6%
    tuberculosis deaths rose by 16.6%
    tuberculosis deaths rose by 16.6%

    In 2009, a book by Rick Rowden titled The Deadly Ideas of Neoliberalism: How the IMF has Undermined Public Health and the Fight Against AIDS, claimed that the IMF’s monetarist approach towards prioritizing price stability (low inflation) and fiscal restraint (low budget deficits) was unnecessarily restrictive and has prevented developing countries from being able to scale up long-term public investment as a percent of GDP in the underlying public health infrastructure. The book claimed the consequences have been chronically underfunded public health systems, leading to dilapidated health infrastructure, inadequate numbers of health personnel, and demoralizing working conditions that have fueled the “push factors” driving the brain drain of nurses migrating from poor countries to rich ones, all of which has undermined public health systems and the fight against HIV/AIDS in developing countries.[39]

  203. sorry, typo…

    i meant as soon as Argentina DETACHED THEIR economy FROM the dollar and ditched the entire IMF loan nonsense, they recovered…….IMF is depressing and the people of Greece SHOULD be out on the street…and should VETO this idiocy….there is a lot of good, thoughtful people (prior to the riots) who have worried about greece (and elsewhere) for a long time, because the wealthy nations have tried to ‘guilt/shame’ greece into thinking they should be ‘like us’….a joke…by the way, i know another, now powerful/great nation that once defaulted on international loans…the world economy will not collapse if greece lets go…it is just a fear tactic…it’s more about collapsing interest on the loans, which go to those who have to begin with….madness…

    but, i just think now more about the people of greece…they’re more important at this moment…

    anyway, thoughts for them!

  204. the world economy will not collapse if greece lets go…it is just a fear tactic…it’s more about collapsing interest on the loans, which go to those who have to begin with…
    Bob, absolutely true once again…IMF also destroyed Romania and many more…

    EVERYONE OUT MARCH IN THE STREETS…peacefully (ignore the police provocateurs)

  205. P.I.I.G.S (portugal, italy, ireland , greece, spain)..
    they call the PIGS, LAZY … All kind of names..BANKERS TRY TO PUT GUILT into free souls…while all they care about is to collect interest in the loans they offered….same as the foreclosures in USA….Banks tricked the little guys with big houses and loans and GUESS WHAT THE AMERICAN PUBLIC TOLD THE BANKS?
    viva foreclosure..
    if u have a house let it foreclose..give it back to ”

  206. Protesting is one thing, destroying what resources one has left is pretty stupid. There are always two sides Panos, sure the money men inflict a lot of harm. Do you haver a system to replace it with? Do you have a consensus of opinion to implement your ideas upon others? Where is the money coming from, do others have to give to your cause until they have nothing left? I am sure Uncle Spiros is really happy when his shop gets destroyed. Mobs on streets are never squeeky clean and both sides should share the blame, but it is a war so nobody is willing to cede.
    Other than that Panos I have spent more time being activly involved politically and continually do so for you to come up with that apathy phrase is niave. I have spent many a night on the phone, shifting paperwork before and after the protest when the participants are tucked in bed or drowning their sorrows in a bar all night. You know doing that backroom practical stuff that nobody really wants to do that keeps the flame alive.
    Panos that “it is someone else’s fault” mentality of yours is the most dangerous type and one that as a sometime protest organiser is something we have feared to have in our ranks as it is very counter productive.

  207. Panos I work hard for my community, family and others that I do not know. Yes I have a moderatly large house and a investment property, money in the bank but that is not without a lot of ,if you think that for one minute I will cede all that think again.

  208. http://www.democracynow.org/2011/6/29/inside_greeces_general_strike_video_report

    The chaotic standoff began Tuesday when police stormed the adjacent Syntagma Square, where demonstrators have camped for over a month. Democracy Now! producers Aaron Maté and Hany Massoud were there just as the unrest broke out and spoke to many of the demonstrators who refused to leave the square. “They sell our country,” said one protester. “They sell our national dignity … they have signed away … our constitution!” Another person said, “We need the solidarity of working class people and youth from around the globe. The only way to stop the cuts, the attacks and austerity packages is by struggling, this includes everything, strikes, demonstrations, occupations of squares and uniting the different movements from around the world.”

  209. AMY GOODMAN: Lawmakers in Greece are voting on a new round of sweeping austerity measures amidst a general strike that’s brought tens of thousands into the streets. International lenders have demanded the $40 billion package of spending cuts, tax increases and privatizations as a condition for a massive bailout to avert the eurozone’s first default, but the austerity plan has sparked uproar in Greece over what opponents call the selling off of their country. Riot police have fired volleys of tear gas, smoke bombs, stun grenades in a bid to clear the masses of Greek protesters surrounding the parliament in Athens. The chaotic standoff began Tuesday when police stormed the adjacent Syntagma Square, where demonstrators have camped for over a month. Democracy Now! producer Aaron Maté and videographer Hany Massoud are in Athens and were there just as the unrest broke out. They filed this report.

    AARON MATÉ: We’re walking toward Syntagma Square. You can hear explosions pretty close by. The tear gas is overpowering. People have bandannas and water to help their faces. As we’re getting closer, there is riot police and people running down. Obviously what’s going on now is a full on confrontation in the streets of Athens. People are really angry over these austerity measures and it’s come to a head. We’re being told by protesters that they were gathered in Syntagma as they have been for the past month when they say they were rushed, unprovoked, by police. It’s now spilled out into the surrounding streets. Why are you protesting?

    PROTESTER 1 IN THE STREET: Because the new policy with the IMF and all the decisions they are taking are against us. We don’t have jobs. We don’t have, [in Greek], we don’t have any insurance, hospitals, nothing. They want everyone, everything to be sold.

    PROTESTER 2 IN THE STREET: The government is preparing to give a vote inside the parliament in the new memorandum all the consequences that are coming because of the new agreement with the Troika, IMF, European Bank, and the rest. What is happening right now is that five hours, after the demonstration, has descended on Syntagma Square we’re still having people around Syntagma Square, trying to remain in place because they feel there is an obvious threat, the police to take the square and finish in this way the occupation.

    AARON MATÉ: This has been going on all day. The police have fired tear gas repeatedly. The people keep coming back. The tear gas is still very powerful in the air and now chants are getting louder. So what’s happening now?

    PROTESTER 3 IN THE STREET: We think that maybe the police have taken the square. So we have to take it back.

    AARON MATÉ: Take the square back?



    AARON MATÉ: Protesters are defiant. They are not leaving, even though police have fired multiple rounds of tear gas and smoke bombs. Now we’re seeing more riot police deployed. It’s looking like they’re going to set off more tear gas. We’re right by a new standoff with the riot police. As you can see they’re everywhere. They’re assembled in front of the parliament, they’re in different locations, all have gas masks and they’ve fired a lot of tear gas and it looks like they’re ready to fire more, but these protesters are defiant. Their message is that they’ve had this square for a month and they’re not going to give it up now.

    PROTESTER 4 IN THE STREET: For $800 U.S. per month, you serpents in the grass. They sell our country. They sell our national dignity. They have signed away, they barely defend our constitution.

    [police on megaphone]

    AARON MATÉ: Police are approaching us right now. We’re in between this group of police and protesters that are undeterred, refusing to give up their Square and the standoff continues. We’ve just avoided a line of riot police that were firing tear gas at a group of protesters, trying to push them away from the square. We’re going to go back as protesters refuse to leave, still trying to hold the center of their protest, the heart of their protest, where they’ve been for over a month and now today, as the general strike gets underway, police have tried to disperse them, but these people are refusing to leave. They’re adamant they’re chanting “The students, the workers, must go on together,” and here I’m holding the remnants of a tear gas canister that’s made in the U.S.A. by a company in Pennsylvania. They have been fired everywhere. They’re littered across these streets amongst the debris.

    PROTESTER 5 IN THE STREET: They want the people back in their homes so they can pass the law that they want, all the laws that they want.

    AARON MATÉ: They want you to leave the square?

    PROTESTER 5 IN THE STREET: Yes yes they want us to leave the square.

    AARON MATÉ: Are you going to leave?

    PROTESTER 5 IN THE STREET: Me? No, I am not going to leave. No, until tomorrow night, they’re going to vote for the program. I don’t know the word in English, middle something, but I’m not going to leave the square until the government force us or there will be elections or whatever. I don’t know.

    [police on megaphone]

    AARON MATÉ: So the police now are backing up just a little from their standoff, right next to the heart of Syntagma Square. What were you saying?

    PROTESTER 6 IN THE STREET: I’m calling them to retreat because when they are here, they provoke the people and it is obvious this will continue to happen. We don’t want dead among them, among them or among us. We want it to stop now, peacefully. We try since this morning. They are provoking. They are entering the square. They are entering between the people. The people is provoked. Then we have all what you see. We want it to end now. We are peaceful. Look at this. Film this. Look who we are. With our civilization we are trying to throw them away.


    AARON MATÉ: So now what is seen here protesters are now standing up to police, pleading for them to stop, stop and look now protestors are saying stop throwing stuff, stop throwing bottles, stop throwing bottles. They’re trying to calm the situation down. It’s a remarkable scene. They’re asking for no objects to be thrown at police. They’re saying don’t throw anything. Don’t throw anything.


    AARON MATÉ: They’re chanting and clapping and are asking to leave the square and now police are backing up. The police are backing up. [chanting] The police are backing up. They’re chanting and with their chanting the police are retreating. The police are retreating back into the parliament and the protesters at the front have this very organized. There’s a front line trying to calm everyone down and now look at the protesters have backed up the police peacefully. They’ve stopped other protesters from throwing bottles. You can see nothing is being thrown now, and they are clapping as the police walk away back into the parliament. They’re applauding the police as they walk away. What are you saying? What are you saying?

    PROTESTER 7 IN THE STREET: I am saying that it is a revolution, for all Europe!


    PROTESTER 8 IN THE STREET: For me it’s very very important to throw out the police and not by using stones, because not because I’m totally against the violence, but because I believe that okay we have to be very very organized to do it because they are stronger than us. So it’s very very important to do it massively very very, you know it’s not exactly peacefully another kind of violence, emotional violence. We try to do it by moving in front in front in front. We we’re in the front in the last level let’s say of the square and trying to move back back back and as we saw they did it. Okay they moved back and they were back in their homes, [laughs]. We hope.
    PROTESTER 9 IN THE STREET: We don’t want something special. We want our lives. So we ask them that, give us our lives back because we are young and we have dreams with all that. Not only now, but for another 20 or 30 years. How I can make a family with all that? It’s important and it’s not only here in Greece all Europe is like that.

    AARON MATÉ: We’re walking down to the square just a short while ago this place was chaos. There was tear gas everywhere and police controlled this street, but now, defiantly protesters have taken it back by chanting and refusing to leave and now as you come across the square, we can see it’s back to normal. The cleanup effort has begun. People are forming these long lines, starting at the water fountain and they’re passing these bottles down the line up into the streets to pour on the ground to get rid of the teargas.

    PROTESTER 10 IN THE STREET: There’s a lot of dust because of the gases the police “throwed” at us before and because of the air, the dust goes up in the air again so we have to clean the street so we can stay here all night. Today where we backed the police off we all felt very proud and strong and united and we all feel that together we can accomplish many things. I hope this will never happen again, but this is their only choice, their only way to tear us apart, to make us leave, to make us go back to our houses, sit on our couches and just believe whatever they say and accept whatever they choose. This is the first time in my life, I’m 26 years old that all Greek people and not only Greek people, but also immigrants we’re all so united and we want the same things and we fight for the same things together.

    AARON MATÉ: What do you want to tell the people of the United States?

    PROTESTER 10 IN THE STREET: Well, obviously, we need the solidarity of working class people and youth around the globe and from the United States too. We are aware of their heroic struggle in Wisconsin, United States recently with the youth and the very massive movement resisting in the attacks and the cuts that the American federal government, central government is organizing against the American people too. We believe that the austerity packages and the attacks in the cuts and the reality, I mean what we face is that there is no place in the Globe where working class people and youth is not facing attacks or cuts in their living standards. What we would like to say is that the only way to make them to back off and stop the cuts and the attacks and the austerity packages is only by struggling, this includes everything, strikes, demonstrations, occupations of several squares, and uniting the different movements around the globe.

    AARON MATÉ: Protesters stood down tear gas and smoke bombs and retook the square, forcing the police to retreat. As you can see behind me now, they’re just guarding the gates of parliament, but tensions are still high. Protesters have come up to the barricades and are chanting, livid over what’s happening inside, with the vote set to happen on a new round of austerity measures. So although today saw a victory for this protest movement in retaking their Square, filling it with people after it was filled with tear gas. There is no doubt that this protest and this struggle continues. For Democracy Now! I am Aaron Maté with Hany Massoud in Athens.

    AMY GOODMAN: People continue to be in the streets of Athens. Tens of thousands as they await the vote of the Greek parliament. This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. We’ll talk about the significance of this for Europe, for the United States, for the world and also the opponent of the new IMF chief in a moment.

  210. Other than that Panos I have spent more time being activly involved politically
    Imants i dont deny you that right..its just the way you oversimplify things and your worries about PROPERTY
    doesnt match the “actively involvement” u just describe…

    and btw, these are not my opinions …
    here im reposting New York Times today:


    but Imants i totally agree with you on this one:
    “Protesting is one thing, destroying what resources one has left is pretty stupid.”

  211. “it is someone else’s fault” mentality of yours is the most dangerous type
    dont worry Imants , im not asking you for a “job” , but again when did i say its ONLY someone elses fault..If u would follow my writings and the breaking news, All greek are ALSO AGAINST THEIR POLITICIANS of all latest governments that worked all those “deals” with the bankers…

    read here:from NEW YORK TIMES AGAIN
    “(GREEK CITIZENS) You should also realize you are not blameless. Many of you were evading taxes and enjoying those highly paid public-sector jobs; most of you were consuming more than you produced and retiring too early. You also voted for your useless politicians.

    By all means, protest. But focus on the right goals”

  212. “The students, the workers, must go on together,” and here I’m holding the remnants of a tear gas canister that’s made in the U.S.A. by a company in Pennsylvania. They have been fired everywhere. They’re littered across these streets amongst the debris.

    viva Pennsylvania..i wonder how much they charged the greeks for tear gas..although i suspect that it was a free GIFT since the chemicals are expired!

  213. Imants i dont care (i say this with kindness, not angry ;)how big is your house or how many cars u have…
    Its apathy i detest, not every wealthy folk out there…I dont envy individuals with money otherwise i wouldnt be an American living so close to Malibu…
    Your checking account has nothing to do with the drama that goes on in the Southern Europe…To assume that all poor countries are simply poor because their citizens are thieves or LAZY is flat out offensive…i know u love poking me my friend, and i love it too..but.. but u gotta realize that NOT everything is a joke …There is always place for jokes, offenses and mocking the poor..but not today bro, sorry..not today when 700 people MOST ELDERLY got attacked and gassed in the SUBWAY..and needed immediate hospital care…
    sorry bro, i love your jokes but today aint the right day for us to be making fun of the poor and the unfortunate from the comfort of our expensive couches…
    but dont give up..i might laugh at your jokes tomorrow ..its just today im not feeling it
    big hug

  214. Where is the joke part I am quite seious…………………. you are writing as a one eyed football supporter and that is dangerous for both supporters and oppossition

  215. To assume that all poor countries are simply poor because their citizens are thieves or LAZY is flat out offensive
    sorry , not just offensive but pure racism ( and by no means im calling you a racist, Imants..not at all..i dont actually think we disagree that much actually…i agree that the latest “phenomenon” is more complicated…and most Bankers are not that bad people as individuals either, all they want is profit but sometimes get a little “greedy”..on the other side though GOVERNMENTS ARE bad bad bad…
    Democracy is when the citizens decide , NOT THEIR REGIME..their is NO real democracy today..nowhere..same families, same regimes, same bipolar democracy..2 major parties everywhere…voting is nothing but a joke..
    Ask Al Gore how he lost Florida the last minute..someone cooked the elections 10 years ago..the rest im sure u know..its “history” now

  216. you are writing as a one eyed football supporter
    u see? you keep “joking” and i told u im not in the mood! this is NOT A SOCCER GAME..
    i support the people of Greece and their uprising and the revolution…If CHE or GANDHI or LENNON (imagine?)were thinking like ONE EYED FOOTBALL SUPPORTERS then fine, count me in..im a football supporter too then!

  217. Passion is not necessarily a sports phenomenon my friend! Argentina is a soccer superpower but but when it comes (as bob explained above) to survival, when IMF stole the food from their table …then they forgot about “soccer” and Maradona and came out to protest..kicked out IMF and WON!!!!!!!
    PLUS u have to realize where im coming from..im from the south..PASSION IN GREECE IS LIKE IN ARGENTINA, ITALY, BRAZIL…
    its passion you hear in my voice..im from a tiny place that fought for independence since day one..Ask the Ottoman Empire, ask the Nazis..obviously your upbringing have nothing to do with mine brother…
    im from a country/region that we learn from very young age that if someone is trying to GRAB my ass , then i slap / hit back…its just a reflex, that happens automatically…not just soccer mentality


    Odious debt

    In international law, odious debt is a legal theory which holds that the national debt incurred by a regime for purposes that do not serve the best interests of the nation, should not be enforceable. Such debts are thus considered by this doctrine to be personal debts of the regime that incurred them and not debts of the state. In some respects, the concept is analogous to the invalidity of contracts signed under coercion.


  219. Origin of odious debt

    The doctrine was formalized in a 1927 treatise by Alexander Nahum Sack, a Russian émigré legal theorist, based upon 19th century precedents including Mexico’s repudiation of debts incurred by Emperor Maximilian’s regime, and the denial by the United States of Cuban liability for debts incurred by the Spanish colonial regime.

    the denial by the United States of Cuban liability for debts incurred by the Spanish colonial regime
    the denial by the United States of Cuban liability for debts incurred by the Spanish colonial regime

    read again:
    the denial by the United States of Cuban liability for debts incurred by the Spanish colonial regime

    do you see the “game” now? that USA can pull anytime but poor greece is not allowed to????
    do u see where im going with this?

  220. In a Policy Analysis for the Cato Institute, Patricia Adams suggested that the debts incurred by the Iraqi state during the rule of Saddam Hussein are odious as the money borrowed was spent on weapons, instruments of repression and palaces.
    Do you see that? read it? read it again!
    GWBush did again with Iraq..ODIOUS DEBT AGAIN..yes we will destroy Iraq but we ARE NOT GOING TO PAY for rebuilding it..no no we will charge Saddam for that..oh no…Saddam is dead! now whos gonna pay? do not worry WE will rebuild Iraq and of course we gonna charge its citizens..Poor Iraqi citizens they have no clue how much they gonna pay..they dont know their “new debt” that it will be moved on to the next and next and next generation…

    So you see my friend? The CIVILIZED WEST is pulling the ODIOUS CARD anytime they benefit…anytime their debt is huge then ooopps! sorry..its “odious debt”…but for greece? oh pleaase…who the fuck is greece? its smaller than the size of Alabama..and doesnt have too much oil/petroleum to worth helping them…On the other side though it makes way more sense to rebuild Iraq (good good business)

  221. Bob Black, yes. Panos, I can feel your angst, anger, frustration, pain. What will become of us. and where is the world headed?

    Civi, Visaria, please stay safe.

  222. yes Gordon, sorry for hijacking the tread..as u can tell im very very stressed out over these latest breaking news..scheming how to help with my only weapon (an empty black box and a piece of glass)

  223. “CHE or GANDHI or LENNON (imagine?)were thinking like ONE EYED FOOTBALL SUPPORTERS ” that is what distingishes them from followers they did not have that mentality.

  224. Protesting in anger leads to a situation of one losing the intent and purpose Che was deliberate and calculating he thought ahead and saw the concequences of his actions. He was happy to alter the playing field to suit the cause even if it meant a step back …………….. curb your anger and you wll be able to give yourself to a just cause in a meaningfull way

  225. I think I’m going to pass out. It is 5am and I am still working. And I’m up at 8am to shoot for something else, do laundry, and deal with everything that needs to be dealt with before I take off on the next journey in 3 day’s time. Madness, but I love this life so much. My own bed for a change, nice. It’s calling me. Hope all are well. One luv.

  226. curb your anger and you wll be able to give yourself to a just cause in a meaningfull way
    i agree 100%…Anger, frustration is an obstacle as Dalai Lama proved…

  227. a civilian-mass audience

    the day after…there is no day after…the center of Athens…there is no center…

    IMANTS…yes,violence…why?…my greek people are not violent people…
    100 people did the damage…
    they know them…friends of the “goverment”…
    they did amazing work…

    30 days protesting in peace…NOW…no civilians want to protest…WHY?
    … in my house kids and elderly people…do they want to go out again to protest…
    No…why? FEAR,FEAR,FEAR…

    the aftermath…BUT,BUT…the BIG MASTREMINDS forgot a small detail…

    GREEKS ARE STRONG and they will “FIGHT”…PEACE…

    I am Zorba,I am Soctrates, I am Pericles…I am Odysseys,I am just a CIVILIAN…
    and I will never give up

    GORDON,BOBBY…ALL MY BURNIANS…you are next to me…and I love you ALLLLLLLLLL
    PANOS…keep BURNING…hope to see you soon in grecoland

    back to the regular program…THANK YOU BURN…

  228. From Academy Award® nominated filmmaker, Charles Ferguson (“No End In Sight”), comes INSIDE JOB, the first film to expose the shocking truth behind the economic crisis of 2008. The global financial meltdown, at a cost of over $20 trillion, resulted in millions of people losing their homes and jobs. Through extensive research and interviews with major financial insiders, politicians and journalists, INSIDE JOB traces the rise of a rogue industry and unveils the corrosive relationships which have corrupted politics, regulation and academia. Narrated by Academy Award® winner Matt Damon, INSIDE JOB was made on location in the United States, Iceland, England, France, Singapore, and China.



    (i hope Imants will spend some time watching it too, learning some “new” things that the rest of the world of course already knows)
    this way you will be even further educated about who collapsed the global economy and for what reason)
    knows about;)

  229. and this documentary has priceless info about the collapse of Iceland’s banking system following the american collapse (that originated everything) and then we have the TODAY’s DOMINO EFFECT! buckle up and enjoy the show….its coming to your town soon (not in a theater near you but literally in your town…just wait and see…
    6 million houses foreclosed (2009 statistics)..imagine 2 years later…2011…
    Hard working folks relying on their credit cards to pay bills here…
    Have you ever heard of the infamous “Tent City” in Florida? no?
    ok i ‘ll tell u about it..Its a “town” in florida that the homeless (foreclosed house owners)live in tents…

  230. @ PANOS:
    Thanks for the info, will watch it as well as the other one: Debtocracy.
    The problem with this kind of people is that they are “invisible”, I mean, nobody knows their face in the street, they are not in TV, their work is behind a screen with statistics, shares, and incomprehensible numbers, and cells phones. So they can walk, they can go and buy a hot dog or whatever and nobody could even know them. That’s the main problem.

    In Decembre 2oo1, in Argentina, a major crisis struck the country.
    I was there, I was watching Tv. Today the former president (De la Rua) and his economy minister (Cavallo) could not even think of walking even a single block alone, because they get “killed” by everyone.

    That’s the difference, and that’s me major fear. Because they can continue to “work”

    Ok, enough, sunny outside,

  231. Civi… nope, not Grecolandia, shooting at home.. just never turn your back to a horse, or even worse, a crowd.. and I even knew it before, so my fault.. anyway, got this:


    shoulder back in its place and feeling much better today, so out again this afternoon..

    YOU take care, do what you must do, and watch your back!

  232. a civilian-mass audience

    EVA,VIVA…you are really transforming…you are emerging …I like your style
    and if you have survived this horse…then not even the sky is the limit…!

    Come on BURNIANS…where are you? are you protesting too?:)))))))))

    and before I go…I have to say this to our JIMMY POWERS…we LOVE YOU…yes,we do…
    BUT focus …new approach…my JIMMY,new approach…

    back with the civilians…where I suppose to be…

    OUZO on PANOS…;)!!!…come on BURNIANS…keep BURNING…

  233. Civi.. no no, just having fun :) .. and avoiding doing laundry and hosework and other boring stuff, but don’t tell!

  234. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5vYgF7oa60&feature=player_embedded

    footage from the beginning of gassing the metro in athens

    same in greece now..greek politicians cant walk free in the streets of Athens anymore,,,in fact most they cant even leave their houses..im sure some of those scum backs politicians will be moving soon somewhere in sunny california, change their names and have a prosperous life , just like the nazis that are still hiding in South America unpunished

  235. PROTESTER 6 IN THE STREET: I’m calling them to retreat because when they are here, they provoke the people and it is obvious this will continue to happen. We don’t want dead among them, among them or among us. We want it to stop now, peacefully. We try since this morning. They are provoking. They are entering the square. They are entering between the people. The people is provoked. Then we have all what you see. We want it to end now. We are peaceful. Look at this. Film this. Look who we are. With our civilization we are trying to throw them away.


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