of trees and dreams…


is there anything better than a childhood dream?  9 year old Gracie Johnson dreams of becoming a photographer….she lives now in the Virginia town where i also dreamed of being a photographer at about the same age…Gracie and her family are part of my American family series Off For A Family Drive…Gracies’ father,  U.S.Navy Capt. Andrew Johnson was the Director of Medical Operations on the first wave of Haitian relief after the earthquake serving on the military’s largest hospital ship Comfort…

symbiotic stuff….

so here at Burn we are creating Circus Magazine  for photographers 18 and under…young Gracie will of course be a candidate photographer…. with less than 6  degrees of separation, we are also working in the kindred spirit of her physician father Capt. Johnson and will be using the fee many of you contributed as part of the EPF  grant award for Burn  to send approximately $6,000. to Doctors Without Borders specifically to be used for Haitian relief efforts….

this year the Emerging Photographer Fund grant will be given to one of 25 finalists…more than double the number of finalists as last year…this will be a very tough call for the jury that i will name next week….while i am very proud that the tenor of Burn has made it so that generous donors have made it possible to give out a $15,000. grant for 2010 for the completion of one photographer’s project, i still want to be on the leading edge of a wave that will help as many of the talented unknown as possible…

after allotting first for Haitian relief, then paying our fee to Slideroom for making the whole entry and judging process easy, Burn is left with a small profit from your entry fees…we had approximately 1000 entries…..so what to do with the profit?

Anton and i figured we had three choices: Do we?

(a) take a vacation in the Bahamas

(b) throw a helluva party in my loft in New York

(c) give the money back to the readers of Burn

those who know me, know the answer….and Anton is of like mind…yup (c), we are giving the money back to you….

starting on July 1, 2010 Burn Magazine will start paying for every essay and single published online in our magazine….

we will have to start with a token payment of $500. per essay for one time use rights on work that comes to us through submissions…more for a first time exclusive….we are confident this number will rise significantly as we seek outside support….now we are doing this with your money….a big circle….the right thing to do in this nebulous time in the world of publishing…

Burn will not last forever…Burn will always be small….we only care about one thing at Burn and it matches the way i feel about everything i do…i just want Burn to set high standards and live by example…and in this case hopefully stimulate the “big guys” to follow suit…the large media companies , even with advertising for support , are thinking of every way possible to keep from paying photographers for online content, and we at Burn are thinking of every way possible  to make sure the young photojournalists and artists of our time are compensated for their work….so, this is our brick in the wall…and oh yes, i am still working on assignments for Burn readers and icons as well…be patient, this is part of it…this is how it will happen….

photography has never been a professional choice either craft or art where people were expecting to become wealthy…photographers work from their deepest passions, either artistic or journalistic…yet, compensation so that they may continue their passion and yet feed their families seems to me to be fair enough….

i want to take this time to thank Andrew and Melissa Johnson and their beautiful children Critt, Cole, and sweet Gracie for allowing me into their lives….yes, i have made a few pictures with medium format film for my personal project, but what will be even better is if Burn gives Gracie a good digital camera so that she will have the opportunity to photograph her family from the real inside….soon to be published on Circus….



2270 Responses to “of trees and dreams…”

  • David and Anton, congratulations. You guys are amazing.

    Viva la Revolucion!

  • Jamie Maxtone-Graham

    No question; the single best photography website in the world today……Thank you David, Anton, et al.

  • 4:08 am in grecolandia…let me read again…im excited once again..how can i sleep now…reading all the above…bravo!!!

  • let me start dissecting…piece by piece…

    Burn will not last forever…
    sorry but incorrect…

  • Wow you guys…what can I say?

    Great…nice…how generous…inspirational…exciting.
    Better than anything I could have imagined, which seems to be the norm here at burn.

    You really know how to do it right.

    Congratulations and thanks.

  • David, as always, you are one cool dude, and you and Anton make a hell of a team. Big cheers.

  • Did I mention my nephew Reese, the young aspiring photographer from Austin … ;-))

  • Dear David,

    This is another inspiring development here on Burn. In an editorial market which is becoming tougher by the day, you go against the general trend. I am proud to be part of this community here on Burn which has evolved from Road Trips…does anyone remember that? ;)

    As a past recipient of the EPF, I can vouch first hand what a difference it makes. Not just in a monetary sense, but in the sense of confidence, inspiration and belief it has instilled in me and my work. To think that this will now help inspire young photographers, well, that’s a great thing you are doing. Really.

    Good luck David. Look forward to seeing Circus Magazine go live.


  • i just want Burn to be good and to set a good example…and in this case hopefully stimulate the “big guys” to follow suit…the large media companies , even with advertising for support , are thinking of every way possible to keep from paying photographers, and we at Burn are thinking of every way possible to make sure the young photojournalists and artists of our time are compensated for their work….so, this is our brick in the wall…

    no advertising for support?????
    i have an Evil idea…why doesnt burn do what the NYT did with the Lens blog? Get advertising…put the money in your pocket…go to bahamas and do some silly, pathetic bullshit ala “Moments in time” and make every photographer in this world contribute sending you their photos for free? Of course all you have to do is send the photogs back something like a big smile? Tell the photogs that the copyright is still theirs and let them sell the photos (like they can anyways but even if they do, who cares?)..Anytime you want to repost the photo do it without asking them , just send them another big smile back…
    This way you will create a huge database for free…see???? great idea or what???
    just a thought…
    (ok..ok..i admit it..i just stole this Amazing idea from the New York Times…the Lens blog…just a thought)

  • David, I got to option (b) and had a panic attack….
    How could I possibly get to NYC in time for the party!.

    So I’m glad you guys went with option (c)
    It makes my life a lot easier and it really is a fantastic thing to do. It Really is.

    I’m looking forward to seeing what those kids get up to in the BigTop.

  • Our beloved Burn will last 100 years

  • Now worst case scenario is if Burn eventually runs out of money and dies…
    well..so be it..
    its better to Burn out than to fade away (SELL out)…
    that wouldnt mean that Burn failed…
    No no no…Burn is the last Resistance to the “big guys” who are scheming every possible trick to NOT pay…
    You see they figured the mentality of the Artist…Artists give their soul for free..anything to be on a blog, anything to hang on a wall…be in a book etc..The “big guys” know that…Flickr created this way…big huge low cost,dirt cheap Database so getty can buy 10 photos on the dollar…now NYT with “moments in time”…good intentions, ha ha ha, ho ho ho…one love, save the planet, volunteer here , volunteer there…
    (but they never forget to slap you with the latest canonikon add on the side)..
    Stay healthy Burn…we know “they” wont follow..and guess what: we dont care…
    big hug

  • May this become the general trend in webpublishing. Sincerely hope you pull this off on the long term David and Anton.

  • “photography has never been a professional choice either craft or art where people were expecting to become wealthy…photographers work from passion…yet, compensation so that they may continue their passion and yet feed their families seems to me to be fair enough….”

    Right on! Even now, not a week goes by without someone contacting me with a request that they be allowed to use my photos for free, or at a token price. I get so tired of it.

    I feel a little badly, because I had said that I would enter the EPF grant competition so that I could contribute to your effort. But in the end I did not enter because it just did not feel quite right. I will still find a way to contribute to Burn. I have been full-time freelance now for 25 years and have had many economic ups and downs, but the last few months have been very, very, down and I cannot contribute to anything at the moment – not even Special Olympics.

    The summer, however, is looking up and I think I will be able before long.

    Also, on interesting and related note, several of my blog readers had been urging me to put up a “donate” button of my own so that they could contribute to it. I had been very reluctant to do so, as it felt kind of like begging and also I have yet to find the time and resource to turn the blog into the kind of online publication that I plan to make of it, but finally I went ahead and put that button up.

    Over the past two weeks, I have received about $800 in donations. It won’t continue at that rate, of course, but it does tell me that people are willing to pay for my content online and it gives me hope that I can yet do this thing. All I need to do is to increase my readership of similar people by about 100 times and I am in business.

    Of everything that I see out there, it is Burn that is my biggest inspiration.

    That means David, Anton and the rest – it is you who are my inspiration.

    Thank you, and I will be follower of Circus.

    May Burn not burn out, but be around for at least 100 times longer than you anticipate.

  • Great news!!… but you dropped my essay!! (Joke!!.. Joke…) ;))

    Sean, we remember…

  • A ray of hope in uncertain times. Great news to hear this morning!

  • DAH & ANTON – you two are both amazing! looking for to seeing you both at LOOKbetween and finding out the grant winner. hugs to you both!

  • That’s impressive. No doubt – Burn is really leading the way. Congrats!

  • Why not keep or send the money for/to (an)other humanitarian crisis, especially those that do not have much coverage in the medias, like the plight of Rohingya refugees in Bangladesh. This would also be fitting the intent of many essays on BURN, that introduce to us people and minorities hardly talked about in mainstream medias?

    Just on the Rohingya:


  • David; I’ve never submitted an essay to Burn, but if I had one published here I think I would prefer to donate the $500 to Circus Mag… the circle would turn twice. Just a thought… Anyway; congratulations on both your and Anton’s efforts. :-)

  • wow, that’s an amazing idea. congratulations & thank you david & anton, you guys just keep doing the right things. very cool.

  • Wow, thank you David, Anton and all others associated with Burn for your continued support and inspiration to the photographic community. Just amazing.

  • Just plain awesome…

    I’ve been wondering all day what DAH would present – this post totally surpassed anything I came up with on my own.

    Thank you David & Anton!

  • David Anton… Amazing. If you really make this work and stick, it could change the way we finance photographers in the digital age now. Amazing. I really hope this works. Very excited about this!! Great stuff.

  • wow….
    coming full circle….
    in todays world…
    what a gift…..

  • Very Good. Excellent, in fact. And still glad to be part of it.
    Thumbs up Anton and David!

  • I don’t plan to have a child so soon, but he(she) is excited already!!!

  • Awesome, really! Waw…
    DAH, it’s pretty amazing what you did since Road Trips (yes Sean ;)!
    David, & gang, you rock! In this day-and-age, going against the grain in such a positive way is quite visionary… No kidding, we’ll have pretty cool dreams tonight -and ideas for the days ahead!
    All the best, T.

  • The bestest of the bestest,
    You guys and all of us together we definitely ROCK!!!
    A sincere thanks

  • a civilian-mass audience


    “There is a MAGNET in your heart that will attract true friends. That magnet is unselfishness, thinking of others first… when YOU learn to live for others, THEY will live for you.”
    Paramahansa Yogananda

    “There is a MAGNET in your heart that attracts true friends.That MAGNET is unselfishness…
    you have learned to “live” for others(thanks MAMA,PAPA and OTHERS)…
    WE “live” for you…
    BURNIANS and CIRCUS photographers

    ohh…the trees…the dreams…oime…
    I need a true academian today…

    My fogging eyeglasses are too much to withstand…
    I will be back…

  • It’s all Civi’s fault, it there’d be some Martini instead of Ouzo there’d be a praty.. sigh… ;)

    Looking forward to.. uhm, lots of things really.. the work of the finalists, other new essays, singles, wee big CIRCUS taking off, BURN01.. Anton’s magazine.. inspiration all over the place.. thank you!

  • a civilian-mass audience

    THANK YOU ANTON and your family…
    THANKS to ALL the amazing team that is NEXT to DAH…who except all the other stuff, they have to keep MR.HARVEY awake at the airport gates…

    * Afrikaans (Africa) – Dankie
    * Albanian – Faleminderit
    * Arabic – Sukran
    * Arabic – Shukran Gazillan (Thank you very much)
    * Armenian – shur-nur-ah-gah-lem
    * Australian – Thoinks, Moite!
    * Basque Country (between France and Spain) – Eskerrik asko (Thank you very much)
    * Bengali – Dhannyabad
    * Bulgarian – Blagodaria
    * Bosnia – Hvala
    * Burma(Myanmar) – Jae Zu Din Pa De (Thank you)
    * Cameroon (Duala) – Na som (thanks)
    * Cameroon (Duala) – Na som djita (Thank you very much)
    * Cantonese – M’goy (sp? — thank you for the service)
    * Cantonese – Do jey (sp? — thank you for the gift)
    * Catalonia (catalan) – gràcies [grah’-si-es] estandard
    * Catalonia (catalan) – moltes gràcies [many thanks]
    * Catalonia (catalan) – merci [mer’-si] very colloquial
    * Cherokee Nation – Wado (Thank you)
    * Cherokee (Eastern) – Skee (Thank you)
    * Chinese (Mandarin) – Xie_Xie (shieh shieh)
    * Chinese (Cantonese) Mh goi (m-ghoh-ee) (informal: thanks)
    * Chinese (Cantonese) Do jeh (tou yeh) (formal: thanks)
    * Cook Islander – Kia Manuia
    * Croatia – Hvala
    * Czech – Dekuji (deh’-ku-yih)
    * Danish – tak (tahg)
    * Dutch – dank U wel (dahnk you well) (formal: thank you very much)
    * Dutch – bedankt / dank je wel (dahnk ye well) (informal: thanks) – WEL is ‘good’, like “I wish you well”
    * Dutch – Dank U zeer / duizend maal dank (thank you VERY much) – a superlative and used when you get stuck in a thunderstorm, then lost, mugged, robbed, etc. And someone helps you. Only then. ZEER is ‘very’. JE and U are ‘you’, but informal and formal. (still alive in old english like in ‘ye olde’). “Duizend maal” means a ‘thousand times’.
    * Dutch – hartelijk dank (thanks from the heart) Another formal form used in contexts like: “thanks for coming/inviting” (to a wedding, birthday party) or when receiving a formal present.
    * English – Thanks awfully, old boy
    * Esperanto – Dankon (thank you)
    * Esperanto – Dankegon (thank you very much)
    Estonia – Aitäh
    * Ewe Togo (Africa) – Akpé (Appé)
    * Ewe Togo (Africa) – Apké na wo (Thanks to you)
    * Fijian – Vinaka
    * Fijiab – Vinaka vaka levu (Thank you very much)
    * Finnish – kiitos (kee’-toas)
    * Fon Benin (Africa) – Kpè nu wé
    * French – merci (mehr-see’)
    * French – Merci Madame – Thanks (to a woman)
    * French – Merci Mademoiselle – Thanks (to a young girl)
    * French – Merci Monsieur – Thanks (to a man)
    * F.Y.R.O.M. (Macedonia) – Hvala
    * Gambia (Mandinka) – Abarka
    * Georgia(Sakartvelo) – madlobt (thank you)
    * Georgia(Sakartvelo) – didi madloba (thank you very much)
    * German – Danke (dahn’-kuh)
    * German – Danke schoen (literally: nicely thank you, outdated)
    * German – Danke sehr (Thank you very much)
    * German -Vielen Dank (Many Thanks)
    * Greek – Efharisto (ef-har-ris-tou’)
    * Greek – Efkaristo poly
    * Guarani – Aguije (ah-we-JAY) native indian language of Paraguay and Western Brazil
    * Guinea (Mandinka) – Abarka
    * Gujarathi (India) – Aabar
    * Hawaiian – Mahalo
    * Hebrew – Toda (toh-dah’)
    * Hebrew – Toda raba (thank you very much)
    * Hindi (India National Language) – Dhanyavaad
    * Hindi – Shukriyaa
    * Hungarian – Köszönöm (kuh’-suh-nuhm)
    * Icelandic – Þakka þér fyrir
    * Icelandic – Takk (informal)
    * Indonesian – Terima kasih (teh-ri-mah kah-sih)
    * Indonesian – Terima Kasih Banjak/Banyak (Both pronounced bunyuk – Thank you very much)
    * Iran (Persia) – Moteshakeram (formal)
    * Iran (Persia) – Merci (informal – just like french but r in this word is pronounced as /r/ )
    * Irish – Go raibh maith agat ( Thank you “Go – Rev – Mah – Agut”) (literally, may you have good things)
    * Irish – Go raibh mile maith agat ( Thank you very much “Go – Rev – Meela – Mah – Agut”) (literally, may you have a thousand good things)
    * Irish (Northern) – Nice one bro’r, or Cheers mucker!
    * Italian – Grazie (grahts’-yeh)
    * Italian – Grazie tanto (many thanks – cordial version)
    * Italian – Mille Grazie (a thousand thanks)
    * Japanese – Arigato (ah-ree-gah’-toh) or A_Ree_Ga_Tou_Go_Zai_Ma_Su
    * Japanese – Domo arrigato
    * Javanese – Matur nuwun
    * Jive – Thanks mon – Appropriate only if directed to a male
    * Kannada (India) – Dhan-ya-vaadaa (spoken in S India, in Bangalore, the Silicon Valley of India.)
    * Konkani (West coast – Konkan coast of India – It also is the state official language of Goa) – Dev boren koru (thank you – literally means ” May God do good to you” as that is the way we thank people. )
    * Korean – Kamsa hamaida (kam’-sah hum-nee-dah’ )
    * Latvian – Paldies
    * Lithuanian – Achu
    * Luganda (Uganda) – Waybale (Thank you)
    * Luganda (Uganda) – Waybale Nyo (Thank you very much)
    * Malayalam (South Indian Language) – Nandi
    * Malayalam (India) – Nani
    * Malaysian – Terima Kasih (“Tay ree ma Kaa seh”)
    * Mali (Mandinka) – Abarka
    * Mandinka – Abarka (language of West Africa; The Gambia, Senegal, Guinea and Mali)
    * Maori – Kia Manuia
    * Nepali — (Nepal National Language) – Dhan-ya-vaad
    * New Zealand – Cheers – LOL
    * New Zealand – Kiaora Koe (NZ Maori)
    * New Zealand – Kiaora Korua (NZ Maori)
    * New Zealand – Kiaora Koto (NZ Maori)
    * New Zealand – Kiaora Tatou (NZ Maori)

    Nigeria (Hausa) – Na gode
    * Norwegian – Takk (tahkk)
    * Oman – Shakkran
    * Palauan – soolong (Republic of Palau)
    * Paraguay (Guarani) – Aguije (ah-we-JAY)
    * Persian/Farsi – Mam’noon or Mo’teshake’ram (Spoken in Iran, Afghanistan and other Central Asian countries)
    * Philippines Tagalog – Salamat
    * Philippines – Maraming Salamat (thank you very much)
    * Polish – Dziekuje (dsyehn-koo-yeh)
    * Portuguese – Obrigada (Female)
    * Portuguese – Obrigado (Male) (oh-bree-gah’-doh)
    * Portuguese – Muito Obrigado (Thank you very much)
    * Portuguese – Muito Obrigado com Voce (have my personal thanks)
    * Punjabi [ Pakistan and India] – Bhala Hove
    * Qatar – Shakkran
    * Romanian – Multumesc (phonetic: mooltzoomeask)
    * Romanian – Va multumim frumos (great thanks)
    * Russian – Spasiba (spah-see’-boh)
    * Russian – Blagodaryu (a little official)
    * Russian – Premnogo blagodaren (my greater thanks – words said to bosses by workers)
    * Russian – Spasibo balshoye (big thanks)
    * Samoan – Fa’afetai (fah-ah-feh-ta-e – thank you)
    * Samoan – Fa’afetai tele lava (Thank you very much)
    * Samoan – Talofa
    * Saulteaux Indians (Manitoba, Canada) – Miigwech (meegweech) — there are similar spellings in other native languages such as Cree, etc.
    * Scottish – Cheers
    * Scot’s Gaelic (Informal) – Tapadh Leat (tah-puh let)
    * Scot’s Gaelic (Formal) – Tapadh Leibh (tah-puh lave)
    * Scot’s Gaelic (Many Thanks) – Moran Taing
    * Senegal (Mandinka) – Abarka
    * Serbo – Croat -Hvala
    * Slovakia – Dakujem (deh’-ku-yem)
    * South Africa – Dankie (“Dung-Key”)
    * South Africa – Baie Dankie (thanks very much – “Buyer Dung-Key”)
    * Spanish – Gracias (grah’-syas)
    * Spanish – Gracias a todos (Thank you all)
    * Spanish – Muchas gracias (thank you very much, literally: many thanks) While Dutch people scarcely use the superlative forms, the Spanish don’t use the minimalistic forms much (mostly in informal context). In Spanish, when a flyer is shoved into your hands, its worth a ‘gracias’, you normally use ‘muchas gracias’.
    * Spanish – Muchisimas gracias (thank you VERY much) – to someone who was useful to you.
    * Spanish – un millón de gracias (a million thanks) – for when someone saves your life.
    * Spanish (Latin America, informal) – Te pasastes. (informal)
    * Spanish (Latin America, informal) – Se pasó. (formal) Which means “You went over the line”, or “thanks for going out of your way to help me”. When used, it will get you a smile, guaranteed.
    * Sundanese – Nuhun
    * Sunda – Hatur Nuhun
    * Swahili – Ahsante (ah-sahn’-teh)
    * Swahili – Ahsante Sana (Thank you very much)
    * Swedish – Tack (tahkk)
    * Swedish – Tack så mycket
    * Tahitian – Maururu
    * Tamil (India) – Nandri (“Nun-dry” spoken in South India, Singapore, Malaysia)
    * Teenager –
    * Telungu (South Indian Language)- Manjuthe
    * Thai – Khob Khun Kha (Feminine)
    * Thai – Khob Khun Krab (Masculine)
    * Thai – Khop Khun Mak (Thank you very much)
    * Thai – Khop Khun Mak Kha (Feminine)
    * Thai – Khob Khun Mak Krab (Masculine)
    * Thai – Khob Pra Khun Kha (Formal feminine)
    * Thai – Khob Pra Khun Krab (Formal masculine)
    * Tibetan – Thuk Ji Chhe
    * Turkish – Tesekkurler ( teh-sheh-keur eh-deh-rim)
    * Turkish – Çok tesekkur ederim (big thanks)
    * Turkish – Saðol (thank you)
    * Turkish – Saðolun (thank you – “saol”)
    * Turkish – Tesekkurler (thanks – “teshekkyurler”)
    * U.S. & Canada – Thank You
    * United States (South) – Thanks y’all
    * Ukranian – Dyakuyu
    * Urudu (India) – Shukria
    * Urudu (India) – Bahut Bahut Shukriyaa
    * Urdu [Pakistan, India and Bangla Desh] – Maherbani
    * Urdu (Pakistan) – Shukria
    * Urdu (Pakistan) -Bahut Shukria ( Thank you very much)
    * Urdu (Pakistan) – Bahut Bahut Shukria ( Thank you very very much)
    * Uzbekistan (Uzbek) – Rahmat (Thanks)
    * Uzbekistan (Uzbek) – Katta Rahmat (Thanks a lot)
    * Vietnamese – Kam ouen
    * Wales/Cymru – Diloch yn fawr (thank you very much)
    * Wales/Cymru – Diolch (thanks)
    * Xhosa (Africa) – Nkosi
    * Yemen – Shakkran
    * Yiddish – A dank
    * Yiddish – Yasher Koach (KOY-ACH)
    * Yoruba – Modupe
    * Yugoslavia – Hvala
    * Zulu – Ngiyabonga

    THANK YOU UNIVERSE… (i just copied and pasted ):)))

  • a civilian-mass audience

    and ouzo and tequila…and where is JIMMY and KATIIIEEEEEEEE and OURPATRICIA…

    Formula one…I am running…
    LOVE YOU ALLL…no kidding

  • David & Anton,

    although Civi has just said it all (how can anyone follow that! – Civi we love you :)))
    i’ll say it anyway…

    they say, there is a time and place for everything…
    I think this is the time and place to say thank you.

    Thank you for burn and your never ending supply of energy and inspiriation, thank you for your positivity …

    This is brilliant news, not just for burn but for photography in general, setting an excellent example and leading the way…



    truly, i am stunned.

    never thought i would see the day when a website paid proper money for a photographic essay.

    Guardian, Telegraph, Independent, Times, BBC – take note.

  • Hi All,

    It is a very beautiful news in this uncertain time… Photographers support the magazines of photography (paper and online), but who support the photographers? I had few publications in photos magazines ( paper, not a lot, I don’t want to generalize…) but just one pay me…. the photographers cannot live love and fresh water…

    Thank you so much David and Anton to support the photographers, and please do not forget yourselves!

    I am really impatient to see the work of the young people…. Haik, are you behind circus ? :))))

    Best, audrey

  • Wow, actually made me choke up a little.
    I think you’ve probably made alot of people feel very very good.
    It seems rare that we get an acknowledgement/recognition of our work in the same way that other people do.
    Sincere thanks for doing this.

  • David, Anton,

    You guys are indefatigable!!! And always full of ideas! Yes, it will give BURN a big kick further!
    I wish you and BURN all the best!

  • truly a turn in the right direction, fantastic.

    now what about a retrospective chuck of cash ;)

  • I admire people who mean what they say, and are trying their best to walk the walk. I take my proverbial hat off to you sir.

    Also, would it be possible to set a date during which any money send to you through the donate button on Burn would be added to the sum you’ll be sending to the Doctors Without Borders?

  • CIVI:

    * Cambodia – Som arkoun

  • jenny lynn walker

    DAH/ANTON: A million thanks for all you do for emerging photographers. You ARE amazing! Now ‘Circus Magazine’ and other developments! It’s wonderful to hear that Burn received 1,000 entries for the EPF grant and that 6K will be going to Doctors Without Borders. That is great. Exciting developments every single day.

    ANTON: Are there ways to access your mag and/or book other than signing up for membership at Lulu for anyone not too keen on doing that? Or can those signed up to Lulu tell us more about what membership brings you.

    ALL: Such beautiful comments on this thread. Civi: : ) xx

  • yes yes – onward..
    good steps indeed and really refreshing..
    there is a hope that neither you david, nor anton, are going to struggle in any way by not pocketing some of the cash to cover your burn expensis.. which there are probably a great deal of..

    in any case – a great idea.. extremely well intended.. brings and idea..

    if the EPF is going to be difficult to single down to one person, why not narrow it down to include 5 or 10 ‘highly commended’ as well.. their reward can be 500 bucks and to be the first 5 or 10 essays featured which gain the award of payment?

    circus is a great idea as well.. something truely inspiring for younger people to get their teeth into..

    good stuff..
    good good.

  • David and Anton

    If I believed in Heaven, then I’d be delighted in the knowledge that your place in it would be secure.

    But I don’t.

    I do, however, believe in Burn.

    You’re amazing. The pair of you.

  • Nice one…..

    Dah and Anton, your dedication and service to others is really astounding. Good for you guys. Hopefully other web publications will follow with this model.

    I know I know your dedication is to the medium but at some stage you guys deserve some reward for the monumental time you have put into this.



  • I figure the Circus crowd could really shake things up for us older bods. Youthful enthusiasm and a lack of mature cynicism will likely yield very refreshing and questioning work. I’m very excited at the prospect.

    Burn might want to consider, http://invested.in for funding. It works. There’s also http://www.kickstarter.com Worth considering, no?

    I have a project at http://inv.st/4H for example.

  • You are legends. I’m buying beer if you’re ever around.

  • Things were starting to get a little stale
    around here. It’s about time you and Anton
    started doing something….(laughing!!! Very Out Loud!)

  • David and Anton, you guys are amazing!
    Burn is really leading the way and showing the respect all photographers deserve for their work.

  • VERY NICE :)
    SO, now I need to be selected…

  • What trees? Where are they? I live in Cambodia and some seems to have cut them all down! hehe.

  • David, Anton,
    this is amazing and great news. Congratulations to you!

    Keep up the good work.

    What not to love!

  • Off topic: if you want to know what’s going on in Bangkok right now follow http://twitter.com/Journotopia

  • This is a monument in the history of photography.
    It shows his love and passions to photography and photographers.
    He is the greatest photographer and mentor.

    We all love and respect him.
    He is David Alan Harvey!

    Viva! DAH, Anton and Burn!!!

  • fuck!…i just wrote a long long comment and my school computer crashed….:((((((…

    ok, let me try again….

  • I think I was about her age when I knew I wanted to be a photographer. Two thumbs up to Burn!

  • John, thanks for the link.

  • Oh David. and Anton. Respect. Validation. Passion. Professionalism. Generousity. Warmth.
    work ethic of the highest level. Mentor with dedication like no one else. what an incredible person you are David to present this gift to dreamers, all ages, all dreams. And, anton, right there as well.
    it’s more than a gift of dollars. i work with some teens; the fragility of their souls is to be cared for and fed. you guys are doing that. to even think of this is just amazing. with such sweet smiles too.

  • David – Big congratulations to you and Anton….what great news!!!

    compensating photographers here will help so many to pursue their work, but more importantly for me is the inspiration you continue to give….reading your posts and comments makes me feel so charged up, energized and excited to work, to shoot and to live to the fullest! what a lease on life you have my friend. i love it!

    best to you,


    ps. will you be in nyc this weekend for any photo festival festivities?

  • Ok, let me try and type this mother fucker again….:))))

    “Be an opener of doors for such as come after thee.”–emerson

    “The wise man does not lay up his own treasures. The more he gives to others, the more he has for his own”-Lao Tzu

    ok, so let me start first with the profane! ;))


    no, check that, we ARE ALL beautiful mother fuckers because Burn is you, you all out there in the dark, reading and scribbling and making pictures and donating your time and money and energy and love and life to this place. It is true that Burn is you, each and everyone of you, the phtoographers published and unpublished, the commentators, the lurkers, the readers, the winers, the celebrators, the civilians (OUR CIVILIAN), it’ all of you that made this happen and that has been David’s message from Day one, 4 years ago on Road Trips….


    David you are the person that has made this happen…and Anton, you are the soul-feeding, ass-busting, globe=trotting sensei that has made david’s heart, dreams and generosity take shape and soar so as to allow each us to follow in those enormous foot prints he is leaving (and yes people, david harvey does have enormous feet, i have no fucking idea why i know that, but well, he does ;)))….You two have been through so much shit and so much sleepless, jet-lagged, celebratory, people-bitching, negativity and positivity that you’all really deserve some kind of fucking beatification….but as we’ve all know all along this is about phtoographers helping photographers, not asking for anything in return but making the difference….

    David, i wrote long ago, as you know, that when PJG died, the world lost a giver and a touchstone and you have stood up and taken upon your pretty broad shoulders the legacy that PJG left, not only for photography, but more importantly for belief in vision and in making a difference, a real difference to the lives of photographers and their families…PJG believed, unconditionally, that we have a moral obligation to help and to believe and to enjoy life…and you are that standard and shit…i remember:

    i remember the day when Bruno Stevens first told me about Road Trips (that was after week 2 of your starting your blog) and i remember thinking: damn, this cat is fun, cool and totally down-to-earth…i loved reading your posts (hilarious, philosophic, corn-piped written, beautiful, inpired, rants) and at that time like only 4 or 5 comments were being made…i remember Marcin was i think the first, or Marinc and Rafal and then i remember Cathy and i think Eric…and of course your students…i waited almost 4 months to write anything, as i was convinced it was only for your students…and later, i remember when the entire for the Road Trip project came up, the ringu, and everyone was excited and even then there were negative people and non-believers…and that lead eventually to EPF and shit…how much has happened since those days…5,000 comments on a post, you gotta be kidding me…think of this…i know of at least 5 books that have been published since that time and i know of 5 more that are ready or nearing publication…all the great work that has been published here at Burn…all the essays that have been generated by contributors here, think of the essay published here and elsewhere…all the work that has been published/exhibited/sold/created…all the SLPS that have come RIGHT FROM HERE…all the great efforts: the workshops in Austin, the Austin Centre of PHotogrpahy, the mentoring here in toronto, the exhibitions in canada, n.america, asia, europe…ALL OF THIS CAME DIRECTLY and through the inspiration and work of this….

    and god damn, has it bloomed…from Sean’s and Alejandro’s great work and awards, and how the 2 of them have continued to make sustained work and gone off into great directions and publications…all the photographers here who’ve been published in the Times (andrew, chris, lance) and Walrus and motherjones (erica) and visura and shit, i cant count all the magazines…and it continues to grow so that essayist here will be earning money from burn…

    but for me that is not even the point, and that is not the greatness of your revolution and endeavors…this is an example of the new paradigmn…not about webpublishing, but about PHOTOGRAPHERS HELPING PHOTOGRAPHERS AND MAKING A DIFFERENCE….no handouts, but work work work….that photographers, have you have written from day one, MUST take their own life and their own work into their hands and THEY MUST BE THE DIFFERENCE….

    and you and anton are paradigms of that…..

    your generosity, both of you, has been an extrarodinary affirming life…and in truth, i count this place as more than photogrpahy, but a home…all the REAL LIFE friends that have come from this, not mentioning the virtual ones…shit, even yesterday i met up with Andrew B (cloud man ;)) )and Marc Davidson….and there have become real parts of marina and my life….just as you are…

    from Look3 to SLPS to Burn to Circus to EPF to whatever holds forth….


    what matters is not the $500 (though that’s brilliant of course) but that you have had the courage and the beautifully fucked-up vision to BELIEVE….TO BE AN OPTIMIST in a sea of doubt and pessimism…and above all, David Alan Harvey, that is why i have always admired and loved you as a person….and while even amid my own life madness, gravitated toward our chats….

    you have made a difference in people’s lives…..

    and lastly, some PROMOTION FOR BURN:

    PEOPLE: i don’t know if anyone has mentioned this yet (i’ve been awa from the internet all week) BUT ANTON HAS A BOOK :)))))))))))

    go buy it…i will be ordering a copy this weekend :)))))

    you can see it here:


    IT LOOKS GORGEOUS….sorry to embarrass you anton, but PEOPLEbuy this book! :)))))))))))))

    ok, i gotta run….

    and lastly:

    I WANT to thank all the people behind the scenes too: kerry, tom, chris, eric, lassal, marketing guy and talent scout ;))….and above all CIVI…the fucking civilian of the century!

    with out you people, nothing is possible…ALL OF YOU!






  • Jenny, lulu needs a mailing address, you don’t need to give them other info, then you can decide how to pay (credit card, paypal.. perhaps other options, not sure), if you choose paypal nothing more is required.. looking forward to HOLD something tangible in my hands!

  • Fantastic! Thank you David and Anton.

  • ps.. CIVI YOU ARE THE BEST!…………. bullshit I’m gonna get the Phthalo green shirts together and start a anti civilian movement!!!!!! ……..

  • ps You are one smart cookie David

  • David B: the BBC movie on that link was quite uninteresting… The guy TELLING us what happened, instead of SHOWING us what happened.

  • yeap – that is a weird one.. just a small isolated instance of an arrest.. photo goat-fuck possibilities with nothing really happening..

    photographers scampering about alone – as with the woman you highlighted – will provide a better insight in the comming hours / days..

    bbc impartiality is needed of course, although on-the-fence journalism can disregard greater crimes.. like journalists killed..


  • Lovely portrait gr8 news … what not to love …. long live the revolution

  • DB & JV…thanks for thai links/info…searching for more…why do i feel that information is not enough?

  • AS RIGHT AS RAIN but burning, trail blazing like wild fire…

  • David B: Agnes Dherbeys is around there somewhere… I guess she’ll show stuff soon…

  • quick note on BKK:

    for those interested, Agnes D is there (she lives there too, of course) and has done some terrific reporting…she’s had a slideshow in the NYTimes published and a bunch of stuff….

    getting on the ground reports from my friend Oli pin-fat, also based in bkk….


    the dramatic shooting of the general …..

    will leave more links after i hear from oli and company….

    you can follow Agnes Dherbey on her facebook page too….




  • Bob Black- Great comment. Thanks for verbalizing the passion and gratitude that I, for one, feel deeply, but have trouble saying (I need to quit self-editing).

    And to DAH and Anton, thank you guys for creating a place that has forged real friendships, partnerships and inspiration. The impact that burn has had on my career and life in photography has been profound. Before burn, I never would have guessed that Erica and I would collaborate on projects and assignments, nor would I have ever imagined she and I teaching a workshop together.

    So thank you burn for giving us the fuel to dream and to believe.

  • Oh, and teaching a rock photography camp to high schoolers this summer. Something like Circus could be a good inspiration. My take is going to be using rock photography as a jumping off point to be able to learn a few skills and then the world is wide open.

  • ALL…

    today i am goin picture taking…and, well, a little fishing too…back tonight to check up on comments, answer any questions etc….

    cheers, david

  • In a time when everyone else has stopped paying for photographs, when “good enough” is good enough, this is a blast of fresh air. Love it!

  • but at some stage you guys deserve some reward for the monumental time you have put into this.

    Yes, they deserve a lot of recognition, and I think David has told us many times this is not lacking, as BURN is definitely attracting the attention of many professionals in the medium. They(we?)received a LUCIE awards last year for best website, as well, if you recall.

  • Panos, Nick Nostitz is a real trooper, if you had come to Thailand, we could have gone to meet him, i tink you’d love the guy, definite iconoclast, and not interested for one second by the buck. Speaking fluent thai, too.

    i just wrote a long long comment and my school computer crashed….:((((((…

    …And people say computers are brainless machines! :-)))))

  • Herve i also heard the best stuff about him from Katharina …u guys must be right!

  • Hi David,
    Truly a sincere and inspiring effort. Publishing in burn magazine is a prestigious matter always but token payment must be a great motivating factor. Long live BURN.
    Partha Pal,India

  • DAH and Anton – Wow. Thank you for all your efforts and for your unbelievable generosity of spirit.

    Photography is not dead, it is burning bright!!!!!!

  • Panos, remember when I told you to look for his (nick) “Patpong-Twilight zone” book? If I recall, He did not make one cent out of it, the publisher sold his company not long after the book went out, and Nick lost any binding agreement he had…Or had not! (Typical with him…) ;-)

    On the other hand, his photography is squarely within the parameters of creativeness/looseness David has challenged us to strive for, and even if not quite interested in thai poltics, people could do worse than ordering his wolume 1 on the events in that country. At:


    I should write him to see if he wants to submit an essay on BURN. Katharina and you should do the same too.

    PS: BTW, as my renewed multi-posting on BURN indicates, I am back in San Francisco, already 2 days.

  • DAH,

    Very cool, very exciting stuff here!

    ….to quote one of my favorite flicks of all time, Almost Famous, “It’s All Happening!”

    Cheers, Jeremy

  • a civilian-mass audience

    What’s going on…???
    I can see my name …everywhere…
    please,stop the torture…I am slow…
    English not my first language…dyslexic…with fogging glasses …
    BOBBY 1669 words …:)))once an academian…always a BURNIAN…LOVE
    SO LET’S FOCUS…focus,focus …
    you are photographers , you can do it…
    it’s all about YOU…that’s why I am here…and for the free visual stimulation…
    MR.VINK, SOM ARKOUN for everything…
    aha,you are good with twitters,links too!!!
    So nice to see some faces back… SAM HARRIS*,PAUL*,VIVEK,…HERVEEEEEEE

    well credit when credit is due…so the CREDIT GOES BACK TO YOU…
    and to the young people…cause
    “There is no sadder sight than a young pessimist.”
    Mark Twain

    P.S IMANTS…I know where you live…and you better open the door…
    i always carry…silents:)))
    FROSTFROG …thanks for your soul writing…you will succeed.
    BURNIANS get out and shoot…
    am going to feed the chickens( I see an attachment…hmmm
    I am looking for baby names…hmmm)

  • a civilian-mass audience


    BUT there is no copy and paste…hhihiii…
    you are not civilians…you are PHOTOPHILOSOPHERS…you have to figure out the rest…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    where have you been ??? where is JARED??? AND HAIK…???

    ANNA,do you have family in Greece???

  • There could still totally be a party. I think you’re due. I’ll bring some beer appropriate for summer.

  • Civi.. today I had to go back home three times.. one time ’cause I forgot some papers for the taxes, one time ’cause I forgot papers for the bank, one time ’cause I left envelopes on the table and only noticed when I was in the post office.. but! I did not forget the rolls I brought to be developped.. how comes that?

    If you give your babies some names you’ll never been able to kill them..

  • a civilian-mass audience

    drink some rosemary(the herb of remembrance)…hmmm…doesn’t work with the collective memory
    you can always try bloodymary…or something like that:)))
    yeap,the chickens…I rather go hungry…I have 14 now(one dead)Sophia,Alexandro,Sofokli,Anemona…
    it might kick my survivor instinct…


  • Well, you could make frittata and omelette and boiled eggs, and scrambled eggs, and easter eggs and occhio di bue (http://www.langolodilaura.eu/langolo/Cernit/Nuovi/Uova%20all%27occhio%20di%20bue.jpg).. just no blood checking for cholesterol then .. and no marys as long as I don’t forget the important stuff.. living in a bubble(egg).. ;)

  • Herve,
    Nick’s a friend and has something very different to do right now !

  • Panos,

    are you in Athens these days?..

  • No hurry, kh, I think it would be great to have him featured here at some point.

    On another subject, what’s with Jim Powers, guys? Has he left the “building”?

  • DAH, Anton,

    a) would be understandable,
    b) would be most interesting,
    but c) is just awesome

    good call you guys methinks

    It does change burn; dramatically I think; but it does evolve and like anything which is living, and breathing; evolution is necessary to survive and prosper.


    Best folks.

  • DAH


    What an awesome couple! long life to burn mag! Best source of inspiration!

    PS: Bob Black, uhmm shit happens… when you write loooooooooooong comments, maybe it’s better to do it in a word document, then Copy and Paste :-)


  • CIVI

    yes, CIVI. all of my grandparents were aegean islanders, born and raised in symi. my grandfather had a goat named martha and spent his early teenage years in africa before arriving at ellis island. his stories included vivid descriptions of those he befriended, as well as everything he ate, during his travels through italy and france toward america.

    my mom has three sisters, all of whom were born in the states. one of her sisters moved to thessaloniki roughly fifty years ago. she and my uncle just visited. they and my cousins spend a lot of time in cassandra and katerini. they call me psaroukla (big fish) because i love swimming and snorkeling in their/YOUR beautiful water.

    regarding HAIK — one of the warmest, nicest people ever — i have been wondering the same.

    ANNA B.

  • David and Anton, this is really ground-breaking and inspiring!
    I hope that others will soon follow your paradigm.
    As for Circus Magazine, I would love to see it growing up together with the young photographers that will help to establish.

  • Herve, LOL!

    Civi, Maybe you trade someone for strange chickens when your chicks are big enough. Trade to a “nice home in the country” situation. Can you eat strange chicken? Ones without names? Giggle.

    DAH, you are amazing and very faithful. I’ve expressed my appreciation many times on this blog; consider them said again.

    Just returned from a trip to my cousin’s in Tahlequah. I took 6 photographs; there were many more I could have taken but I was in such awe of the love language in their home. When I think back on my time in their home I have memories of sitting in stunned silence as Connie (my cousin’s wife of 30 years) cradles his head during a seizure, her constant monitoring his needs without taking away his sense of independence, and her gifts waiting for me when I arrived. His body is seized by these violent motions every waking hour. Those times when he can actually throw dice during a family game are only possible because some hours are spent with just half of his body moving all the time.

    The light for taking photos was sickly but in my mind I remember only white loving light. A walk through the property garden of my apartment, I look back through the trees and see a painting. And I realized the bubbling brook that crosses the property was at the top of its banks. It was still gurgling but deep brown, with trees hanging into its path from the storm. Think I will head for higher ground. They are forecasting an inch of rain tonight.

    Going to a concert and will probably stay in town. More reports later. No time to read all the comments just skimmed and then commented. I will read more later. Jenny I have figured out the Lulu.com thing. Thanks.

    Anton, ordering your magazine/book.

  • Something for all the CIVILIAN chicken facnciers…….

  • John Vink, Brothers Panos and Herve and Sister KH:

    Hey, i got a note from Yumi Goto that Mitome Tadao is in BKK now shooting…

    those who dont know this great japanese photographer, look here


  • Patricio ;)))))))))))

    that is why i DO NOT want to type in a word document here under comment section….this place is like a home and a point of discussion :)))….now, when i publish essays/stories/poems, then i work on word document, but here i’m willing to take the endless typos (i type fast but not terribly accurately) and grammar train wrecks, as i’m typing using in between teaching or running to a subway (as now)….

    shit happens, and damn it helps to make this place fecund! :)))

    sorry for the long comments….

    ok, gotta fly



  • HEY ALL….
    THANK YOU for all your kind comments and support…
    When David and I discussed this over Skype the day before yesterday, it literally took us two seconds to come to the conclusion that all should be given back… and literally another two seconds later we knew the only way could be the way we are going to do it now… a full four-second decision, so to speak :-)
    this little place we all built, this great community… and maybe also a little prodding to the biggies might be watching… support one another please, it’s all that counts.
    I sincerely hope we can pull it off LONG TERM and that we don’t run out of money too soon… BUT … we are settting a trend and supporting talent as much as we can and we believe in that… and we are equally sure that others will rise and come forward and join us to carry this forward and make it grow
    again, thanks all for your support……………………………….
    ON A PERSONAL NOTE, thank you everyone for spreading the word about 893 Magazine, and some even buying a copy. It’s great to see things actually turn into reality, not only the arduous & hard work creating it, but also seeing people actually buy a copy! It humbles me beyond belief.
    oh and for those who asked: going for Lulu was a purely practical decision specifically for the magazine format… I needed the combo US Letter portrait + saddle stich binding (stapled) so i could create the magazine look i was after, and as far as i researched only Lulu offered that option as print-on-demand. If someone knows alternatives, I’d be happy to hear
    I’ll keep on making issues, one every 6 months, or more if i can manage, until the actual book is ready to go… So magazine and book are very complementary and also very different concepts at the same time…. More to come on that front, stay tuned…
    thanks all of you…

  • jenny lynn walker

    BOB: Many thanks for the link. There’s a number of great photographers here – Agnes Dherbys among them as you know. I just hope that any ideas of heroics – which are inevitably being stirred up by the injustice of what is happening – are not attempted without some precautions on the personal safety front.

    ALL: What’s all the interest in Bangkok all of a sudden anyway? I hope I get to share some of my work but I spent my last note (20Bht) on toothpaste this morning and can no longer upload to Photoshelter. Trying to figure out a way now. Happy I’ve found a place that offers free internet access.

    Just one thing: this whole HIGH-TECH Red Shirt campaign across the past 2 months has been mind boggling – brilliantly orchestrated, marketed and up-to-the-minute responsive with a HIGH-SPEED ‘education’ on inequality and class division being delivered at the same time.
    Late last night, at the Silom protest site (the day following the shooting of one of the ‘pillars’ of the protest) the atmosphere was a little muted. But, there are still thousands of protestors there and those I spoke to said they have no intention of going home and most (but not all) know that their lives are on the line. The last I spoke to – an unpaid volunteer at one of the first aid stations – said he would rather die than continue being ‘the dust under the shoes’ of the establishment.

  • jenny lynn walker

    ANTON: So excited for you! : ) Can’t wait to see your book as soon as I’m able and like the sound of the look of the magazine – the US Letter portrait when you open it as a spread is much easier on the eye than A4 which is so widely used in the UK. Perhaps because it’s more ‘landscape’ – closer to the way we all see?

    PANOS/ALL: What not to love?? Wishing everyone a wonderful and productive day. : )

  • jenny lynn walker

    ALL: Here’s one link to my Bangkok work: http://www.photoshelter.com/gallery/Painting-Bangkok-Red/G0000z9Cr_Sfidao/

    More recent stuff on Facebook under Jenny Lynn Walker (although I have the privacy settings on virtual lock-out).

    And much more ready to upload when possible…

  • jenny lynn walker

    PS The text accompanying that story on Photoshelter needs updating based on the research and information garnered over this past month.

  • Lee

    I was very moved by your post.

    Faced with a demonstration of pure love such as you describe, it is hard to react but in stunned silence. It is a gift to us. I would love to see the six photographs.

    As the parent of a person with special needs, and a member of the sub-culture it creates, I witness such scenes of love and tenderness almost daily at the day program my son attends.

    Brian flapping, the first of four. http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/image/124542714

  • You have been there 2 months? Where can we see your pictures, Jenny?

    PS: About “class division”, more like “clientelism division”: one of the maddening things about Thailand is the total lack of solidarity, class connection between farmers and workers and between these last 2 and immigrants (compare with the reactions from the left-minded against the Arizona law in US or forced repatriations in France/Europe) , and the disconnectedness between social or workplace struggles and political upheavals. Where are the trade union advocacies in the Red Shirts movement? And how come the figurehead of the Red shirts, a rabid free-marketeer, cozied up with a Hun Sen of Cambodia?

    Ask all that to the “dust under the shoes” dude…. (rhetorically, i mean. you don’t really have to ask)

  • Thanks for the link, Jenny!

  • jenny lynn walker

    HERVE: My dear friend? – pity you couldn’t spare a minute to meet me when you were in Bangkok because we could have talked about all of this. I agree with some of what you say but it is a very complex situation, a complex culture and a complex history which can’t be gone into in any depth in a few lines on here. If anyone is interested, I am happy to add links to articles etc that will provide a starting point. I think the Red Shirts look like a ‘right-wing far left’! Just joking because it’s hard to categorize and cannot be seen through the lens of other people’s movements because I don’t believe there’s been one quite like this before. : )

    I see ‘trust issues’ as explaining the lack of solidarity you’ve mentioned – but these relate to the culture. And on the issue of Thaksin and his fortunes – they are clearly built on his spectacular success in the cellular phone industry so yes, he’s a full-on believer in the benefits of free-market economies and, on spreading those benefits around – if in the belief that it’s to the benefit of all as it will increase the populations’ purchasing power. I do need to check out the exact facts and figures but I believe that when he was in office, by just paying 30Bht (which is less than one dollar) anyone could have access to free medical care and hospital treatment. He introduced schemes for widespread access to loans for setting up small businesses and all other sorts of stuff that the man on the street appreciated. Hence his popularity. Don’t forget he’s a self-made man – went from being a policeman to a multi-millionare – on his own efforts.

    It seems to me there is something pretty extraordinary going on here. Anyway, if you want to talk far left, perhaps you can tell me about trade union advocacies in Cuba?

  • Hey All,

    Any Burnians based in Seoul, South Korea? Am going to be in and around the city for a few days next week (probably Wednesday to Friday/Saturday). I know 0 people there, so would be good to meet up!


  • jenny lynn walker

    PS Not to say that this is not just a propaganda effort or an attempt to bring down the monarchy or get back his confiscated assets nor that the protestors are not being used, but there is clearly a high level of income disparity (not just along class lines) and the majority of money is controlled by very few hands, by an elite, and a system that maintains that divide.

    LEE: I would also love to see your latest photographs.

    Sincere apologies for taking up so much space on here. Off out…

  • This is a great initiatives!!! and I love the photo in this post!

  • DAH:

    this is from Gracie (the original – back to the future)

    lookin up ahead on your post…
    1.. you should do it
    2.. i should be in it
    3.. you both are nuts.

    no im serious. your extra money should be spent on extra help. we dont want you guys to be stretched out so thin you both can be in my sandwich!!!

    if you have help already then that’s fine.
    if you dont, im calling your mother.

  • a civilian-mass audience

    raining in Greece…my computer is down…i am transmitting from a friends house…
    can’t see the comments…
    i hope I am in the right aisle…
    can’t see photos…
    I gave away 4 chickens to a family nearby…
    they have kids…I tried to explain about CIRCUS…
    eyes wide open…they told me …that they better stick with the chickens…at least for now…

    P.S I will be back to see you …I hope that you are out and shooting…or you are pretending that you are shooting…

  • I do need to check out the exact facts and figures but I believe that…

    Anyway, congratulations David and Anton. You done good again.

    I’m way behind on the comments. Don’t know nothing bout thailand. Mostly agree with Panos about the NYT Moment in Time thing, but railing against the exploitation of creative folk is pissing in the wind no less than bemoaning the lack of solidarity among exploited class x and exploited class y in third world country z. My criticism has more to do with the content. At one point the editors bitched about how many photos of puppies, babies and tulips they had received, which set off a torrent of outraged replies by people who took pictures of puppies, babies and tulips. Perhaps I’m way off base, having looked at only a hundred or so out of the 10,000 plus, but it did strike me as an exercise in the maudlin rather than anything remotely approximating a particular moment in time. As I mentioned before, I participated mostly because I enjoy the challenge of doing a spot photo under the duress of an insane time constraint, but my entry did give me a few things to think about. Like most people, I see dead guys in the street all the time but rarely pause to take their photo. On a personal level, I’m okay with that. I feel there’s something a bit sick about photographing dead people in the street if it’s just for a snapshot. But taking a larger view, it would probably be better if a lot more pictures of dead guys in the street were published. It really should be news. The fact that dead people in the street is such a common sight should be news as well. Big news, actually. I’d like to see the New York Times do a “Dead Guy in the Street Day” where photographers from all over the world take pictures of all the dead guys in the street. Wouldn’t that be something? Might actually be a worthwhile way to put all those idle cameras to work. But it really depends on what’s considered worthwhile, doesn’t it? Cause let’s face it, the “worth” of “A Moment in Time” has nothing whatsoever to do with journalism, with actually telling us anything insightful about our world. It’s about hits and publicity. Is there really any worth to seeing dead guys in the street? How are you gonna monetize that? Who wants to see a virtual pile of corpses in the street, much less pay for the privilege? Interesting question that, since the answer is that we all do. Okay, not fair. Not fair, you say? Well, our actions say differently. We may avert our gaze, but we’re still stuck with the bill. But look! Over there! There’s injustice in that country on the other side of the world! Penguins are dying in the antarctic! Tsunami! Earthquake! Oh, the injustice! Don’t mind the dead guy on your own street. Just move along. Nothing to see. Not here. Not now.

  • David and Anton,

    “A doing the right thing kind of feeling” – that’s a bit of an understatement!

    This is a very exciting and unprecedented leap you’re making here.

    I’d like to think that all of us who contribute to Burn, will be on the look out for young photographers we can put forward to appear in Circus.

    As for paying photographers for featuring their work on Burn, that’s both great for all us photographers, but also a great and bold statement to the industry that on-line publishing should be treated seriously and professionally.

    I may be wrong, but this announcement and its legitimizing of Burn as one of the leaders (if not THE leader) in photo publishing today could cause a bit of a whirlwind – perhaps even a tornado – amongst your fellow on-line and print based editors and publishers.

    You’ve worked hard on this, often beyond what seems possible, and supported all of us, and together this has created something very special.

    You deserve to feel good!

    Here’s to now and the future….

    Justin P


    yes, we think this will cause a whirlwind in the industry….we hope the media giants will follow….i think they will or in some cases partner with us……it is always small companies that prod the big guys…


    of course we are crazy…and enjoying every minute of it….Anton’s comment above is exactly how it came down….we KNEW instantly this was THE move…..

    you can call my mother if you want, but she was aware of my condition long ago….

    cheers, david

  • The fact that dead people in the street is such a common sight should be news as well. Big news, actually. I’d like to see the New York Times do a “Dead Guy in the Street Day” where photographers from all over the world take pictures of all the dead guys in the street. Wouldn’t that be something?
    im stealing your idea Michael and calling NYT right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Sean,

    I live in Busan. the south part of peninsula.
    It takes 3 hours by train or 1 hour by plane from Busan to Seoul.
    I can’t be sure if i have a free time in week days… But please try to contact me when you arrive in Seoul…by mail(kyungheekorea@gmail.com) or cp (82-16-9606-1102).

    Is it vacation? if so, could you visit Busan?

  • Gordon – Brian is beautiful: he reminds me of a symphony conductor, marking time to a tune deep within..

  • emcd

    You made me smile. You have no idea how right on the mark you are.

  • training a new Circus photog…he he

  • Gordon, then you know for sure. The six I took are nothing but I do have a series from my previous visit. I will upload them today and post. The issue is always lighting in this series as he has to keep the shades drawn and not many lights and certainly cannot use flash as it sets his seizures off.

    It must be raining all over the world Civi. I wanted to road trip to wherever the rain stopped but weather channel indicates hundreds of miles of rain. Hate driving in the rain. Guess I will have to entertain myself. Hopefully my lodging place is still high and dry. Stayed in a downtown hotel last night; arrived in the rain and woke to the rain.

    Saw an incredible dance company last night at the Walton Arts Center: Momix, Botanica. Fabulous. It seems they are having a show in NYC too. Check them out: http://tickets.waltonartscenter.org/production/view.asp?id=4306&x=3&y=14

    Jenny, saw your photos. I am just now beginning to find out about the red shirt thing. Not been watching the news much except weather channel.

    Lee (or just call me eel since the rain makes for tough mammal travel).

  • Charles P, what is rock photography? Rock climbing and shooting? Or actually taking photos of rocks? I love working with kids. When I return to Maui I am scheduled to teach a photography workshop to at risk kids in a program that teaches basic life skills. Looking forward to that.

  • Lee…;) rock’n’roll..shooting concerts n stuff…

  • Jenny, I never said I could not spare a minute or meet. Where did you see or read that?!?!?

    Cuba? I have no sympathy for Castro and its regime, note that I mentionned France and USA, not “communist” countries.

    Poor and rich, like everywhere, Jenny, even USA.

    But frankly, and thanks to that culture you mention (as well as not so ill-willing administrations since the student revolts of the 70s), of developping 3rd world countries, Thailand is one that fared the best. Just compare with its direct neighbours, and nepal where I think you reside. Or Africa. At every step of its recent history, where others would have gone the wrong way, Thailand sailed thru and adopted sensitive decisions or compromises, that even a strong culture of clientelism/top-down patronage could not derail.

    I do not know if you have been in the region where most of the protesters come from, Issan, the North-east. I know it quite well, and at village level. I think if we want to understand something about Thailand, one needs to go there and stay a while, and I can assure you that despair and hopelessness are not the feelings we will come away from.

    Actually, there are poorer than Issan farmers in Thailand. People with no home, no land, no family support system worth its name. The immigrants, and also the landless hired hands that work in fields, migrating from region to region to make a couple bucks a day. These people are not the ones we see behind the barricades, who are quite informed, not as badly educated as we’d think, not dressed in rags, and with enthusiasm and volubility to spare. Good for them.

    Thaksin. You got most of it wrong. He comes from a sino-thai business family, studied and graduated in the USA, became a police officer (or vice-versa!), and used his connections to operate his “satellite/computerizing” business as a monopoly, at monopoly prices. Nothing reaaly wrong in a “it’s who you know” culture, but already out of the grasp of any issan farmer.

    I have little to say about his governance, I always said that the coup to remove it would bear ill for Thailand in the years to come. I am sure the disparity between rich and poor widened while he was PM (as it did just about everywhere else). His knack was PR.

    It is utterly false to say that the previous administrations never did anything for the poor (again, go to Cambodia or Burma and see what a govnmt doing nothing for the poor is about), but they always did it, while pinching their nose at the people. Thaksin, a man of his time, made it a PR matter to let people know he was not handing out, but was on their side, a man of the people (though he was not anymore than the others).

    His best innovation, IMO was the TOT plan, where each commune was given funds to establish cottage industries. WE can see it thru-out the country. the 35 bahts was a good thing too, though not paying across the board for surgery or extended care (some of which existed under the previous PR-stupid administrations). basically, it paid for each doctor’s visit, first care if you will. So far as i know, no one took it away from the people, when they coup-ed Thaksin out

    The loans. well, that sure made the banks richer, thru re-appropriation. Because most people were given loans without any know-how to invest them. some managed it well, some just spent it unwisely, but altogether, banks are now owed over 2 billion dollars. Yet, the current administration has helped negotiate a setllement so that farmers (70 or 80 000 so far, i thin) who sign in on the plane re-imburse, over a few years, only a fragment of the loan, while the govnmt will pay back the rest to the banks. A cost to the thai treasure (but only businesses really pay tax in thailand) of over a billion dollars, maybe much more in the end, when the dust will have settled.

  • Sorry, I meant OTOP, not TOT. OTOP means: one tambon, one product, a tambon being loosely a district.

  • Just a link I got from the NEW MANDALA News site, if anyone is interested to understand Thailand a bit behind all the sloganeering, this is not bad reading at all, a good base for conversation a least.

    Jenny, I hope you will read it:


  • Ah rock concerts. Thanks Panos.

    This is a link from Facebook: I looked at it a couple times before I realized what was written in the left hand bottom corner. Maybe the spelling is what kept it from me for a bit but then it became clear. Brave ICP.



  • Hmmmnnn ………….. so leicas don’t grow on trees and some dream leica so they can be a somebody, preferably “the famous somebody type” Instant success at a price

  • jenny lynn walker

    DAH: I really like a young lady’s work by the name of Olivia Bee (US-based) and think it would be a great encourgement to her to have some of it published in Circus Magazine. Here’s what she put on flikr some time ago: http://www.flickr.com/photos/-oliviabee-/

  • jenny lynn walker

    HERVE: Thanks a lot.

    In a former incarnation, I used to track the telecommunications sector of Asia-Pacific nations and the regulatory frameworks that saw a shift from state-operated to privately-owned networks with multiple players. I also contributed to a book on regulatory frameworks aimed at disseminating this information for the benefit of developing nations around the world for a branch of the UN. During the 6 years that I was doing this, I watched how Thaksin made his millions and how he then entered the political scene. I cannot agree with what you say.

    Happy to know you liked his TOT innovation. Looking foward to reading the article you forwarded as soon as I’m able. If you keep them flowing, I’d be grateful. Or direct to me on Facebook if you think that would be better since others may not be interested.

    Wishing you a great day! Thanks again.

  • jenny lynn walker

    ps all that stuff is funny! especially the tot innovation! unfortunately, and much more importantly 17 more people died here in Bangkok yesterday and the death toll is rising… not sure that talking does much good at this point…

  • Kyunghee…Just sent you an email.

  • jenny lynn walker

    HERVE/ALL: I don’t live in Nepal. I’ve been living in Africa for FIVE YEARS out of the past 6.5 (I’m on the road for a book project). But when it comes to Africa, or at least East Africa, I’m happy to see that deregulation in the telecoms sector has brought that amazing innovation – the mobile phone – into the hands of many millions who who are now using it for all sorts of new small, local projects and businesses and thinking about this at this moment, is making me feel much happier.

  • Roll up a Gigantic spliff?

  • a civilian-mass audience

    enormous…from PETER’S home to your home…
    under the trees…in my dreams…
    roll up your sleeves
    no time for …IF’s…

    I am coming over…:)))
    if ash …permits …

  • panos n paul t

    i think you guys have both gained licenses for using music online with your photos..right?

    any tips? i’ve been making something and want to get the music released before putting it online anywhere.. not finding much online.. otherwise i’ll write to the producer / label

    ta muchly.

  • DB :)

    The artists who are on jamendo,authorize free and legal download of their music.


  • All you need and must do is give them credit in Youtube or wherever else need to use the music..
    I got a great friend this way..I posted couple of my videos in utube with the music from artist BOOBOOTIN…
    amazing music…couple days later after i posted my little movies the artist himself, emailed me, thanked me..sent me links from newest songs he did and urged me to use his music..we became good friends through that…

    but i want to thank Thomas Bregulla ..he introduced me to Jamendo and changed my life since then…

  • thanks man.. good find.

    i ended up using a couple of clips from mid 90’s mo-wax .. will hit up some people n see what i can do, although since the label sold to sony i doubt my old contacts there can help..

  • you can donate if you like but you are not forced to buy…most important you get to know tons of new artists, great music of all kinds that u cant find in mainstream record companies…millions of songs that u can legally download for Free and u can use in slideshows and movies without Stealing or backstabbing the artist..

  • BOOBOOTIN sounds good.. just listened..

    the biggest trouble i had was finding music which did not overpower the photos, yet lent the photos the vibe i needed.. reflected the narrative… went through a couple of thousand tracks and found 50 or 60 possible.. the 5 or 6 obvious good ones.. and finally 2 which were bang on the money, yet trying to find music that way now leaves the licensing problems. i have some contacts who may help, including one of the artists i have used who i met on occasion.. although that may be no help whatsoever depending on his publishing deal :o)

    it is my first serious attempt at a MM piece – 2 sleepless nights and 5 days learning final cut pro.. easy stuff to use once you know how.. loads of good online tutorials… completely addictive actually and fed my OCD beautifully.

    probably took me 40 hours to make what would now take me 5 hours, although feeling really confident and glad to have learn’t it.

  • a civilian-mass audience

    See…I told ya PANOS … there are good Germans too…:)))(to be perceived as a joke)
    I know…virtual word can get twisted…

    what not to TUBE !!!

    P.S no more beer for me

  • ta panos..
    i think next time the way forward is to either begin with searching a site like you suggested or limit myself to artists i know who would be happy to help out.

    i tried creating the music myself.. just could not get what i wanted.
    really though – highlighted for me how much easier music is to convey feelin.. finding tracks which did not upstage or overpower the subtlety of the snaps was the challenge.

    okay – going to catchup on news stuff now.. it’s sunday after all..


  • http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2010/05/16/nick-nostitz-in-the-killing-zone/
    Thanks, Panos, though Nick omits to tell us if the bullets shot were rubber bullets or real, or both. the guy joking about having only a slingshot is very symptomatic of this whole charade of playing david against Goliath (if so, all has been ended, burmese or chinese style, over night, some weeks ago). Yumi Goto just posted on FACEBOOK a twitter post from a photographer being threatened not to take any pictures by 5 Red Shirts yielding hand guns (why am I thinking of the Newsreel snippet of a khmer rouge doing the same, toting a gun at people, as they entered Phnom Penh, 35 years ago?).

    I have more than sympathy for the working men and farmers of Thailand, but I piss on everyone who calls himself a leader in that country, and backs his power with backroom deals and a militia of murderous goons. If I may say…. ;-)

  • BAY TO BREAKERS race today in San Francisco. Passing right in front of my house. Last year, they “banned” selling alochol along the route. I hope they did not ban nudity too, this year…. :-)))))

  • Herve…you obviously been there (thailand i mean)…met people, understand the dynamics…I’ve heard the best about Nick…and read all tweets, seen utube videos linked by JV and many more…The more i read, the more i get confused…Is this a Civil War? Is it a dictatorship..Is it ALL against the government/army?Is the country split in two parts (civil war)…Is it only BKK? is this happening all over the country? the more i read the more i get confused..Can anyone sum it up?

  • Herve and “nudity” in San Francisco


    (sorry Herve, couldnt resist….;))))))))

  • We have no electricity & water feels very acid
    Seh Daeng has his kidney cleaned but his condition is still critical. The hospital will hold a press conference tomorrow.
    (18.42) a proteser got shot in the stomach while he is running toward Century Hotel.

    Got a tweet from someone saying he/she being trapped in a building in Sathorn Soi 1 surrounded by reds planning to burn tyres.
    13 companies in the financial blacklist mostly belong to or are related to the Shinawatras. We are looking for more details
    By “blacklist”, I mean the affected individuals/companies won’t be able to do financial transactions.

  • Can anyone sum it up?

    I will try, panos, later today. But always remember that in Thailand anything can happen and… its contrary too. possibly at the same time, by the same people. Does that help already? :-)))))))))))

  • http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/SanFrancisco#5389997903114413042

    (sorry Herve, couldnt resist….;))))))))

    wonderful, Panos. That guy with the white cap knows his chops. Loose but with a firm stance. Ouh lala! David would be proud…. Fuck, nothing as ridiculous as a photographer bending his knees! Flash on and you had a Martin Parr shot, kinda…. :-))))))

  • Anton,

    Re: Magazine production for your personal project. Lulu is probably more book orientated although granted it kinda fits the bill in terms of on demand publication. I have come across a service in beta “Mag Cloud” which is specifically designed for magazine on demand production. I suspect that it will allow for more magazine type of prices too. A similar model to lulu so it should be familiar to work with.

    Now I haven’t actually used the service so I can’t testify or recommend, nor do I specifically know the detail of what you are to trying to achieve – so this is for information only. It may be worthwhile investigating further.


    (ps – I have no association commercial or otherwise with the service either!)

  • Should add – in Beta Magcloud appears to be available in US, UK, and Canada.

  • David Bowen

    I licensed some music from the mobygratis site. But now that Burn is about to pay contributors, my license may become null and void. I have to look into it.


  • Meteo report.. right here (literally my backyard), right now:



    well well well….just back after being away for 4 days with the kids by the sea…. big BIG news indeed upon my return!!!! It is inspiring to see the two of you set up high standards like this. All photographers out here are wishing for your success and for others to follow… i.e the big guys as you call them…

    Past week-end has all been about relaxing, enjoying the kids, the sea, the sun, eating scallops, photographing the family…I kind of know why you ended up in the Outer Banks David….tough life really:):):)

    Well everything had an end….back to work tomorrow….



  • 2 sleepless nights and 5 days learning final cut pro..

    Sounds like you’re ready for AfterEffects.

    i tried creating the music myself.. just could not get what i wanted.

    Yep, I’ve been down that road too. I spend days, weeks working, working, but rarely get what I want. Still, fun stuff. Moments of sublime happiness in there among the dreck.

  • TOMMY —

    nail on the head… MagCloud would have been perfect but I found it weird (to say the least) that they only do US… I would’ve signed up straightaway if this limitation wasn’t there

    If as you say Beta is UK and Canada added, that is a good eveolution…. now still the rest of the world….. that’s still many many countries to go…………………..


  • Hey all. Sun plays such funny games; I go out to shoot and it goes away; I come home and sun comes out. So consequently, I have so many shots of flowers, squirrels, rabbits and horses, more flowers, flooded creek, chickens, people I am renting from (finally sneaking in a few now that they trust me), and beagles on the trail of squirrel.

    But what it is doing is making me really look for good photos. And that is fun to do; find pictures as they pop out with the erratic sun.

    There is a beautiful black gelding on the property. A funny thing happened yesterday afternoon when I stopped by his pasture to converse. He looks me in the eye and lets his giant penis drop down and wags it at me! Swear to goodness. Strangest feeling; I left right away. Made me shiver.

    Today I got some really nice ones of him in the tall grasses with the evening sun shining around and juxtaposition with two rabbits with the sun shining through their ears. I am happy to be shooting beauty actually. And was on the town square today during a rare hour of sun and got some shots of a birthday party and other people visiting a giant elephant created from tires that is visiting our fair town. A very strange collection of photos due to very strange and electric weather.

    And then there is Bangkok….thinking about it and viewing the postings here the last few days makes me really almost ill. I don’t want to dwell on it but it is important to remember and send out healing.

    Hope you are all well everywhere in the world tonight.

  • jenny lynn walker

    From Human Rights Watch… message to the Thai government to revoke live fire zones in Bangkok:


  • Eva! Amazing shot! Love the colors and the rainbow.

  • I just returned home from the NY Photo Festival where I heard a collective intake of breath when Casey announced at the Slideluck Potshow that DAH and Burn Mag would start paying photogs whose essays are published on Burn. Folks were pretty jazzed to hear that news! I just want to add my enthusiastic appreciation to DAH and Anton for dreaming big and then making it happen. Not just about paying for essays published online — pretty much unheard of in times like these — but for following through on the idea of creating Circus for the truly emerging photogs among us. Bravo to all who will help make this happen.

    And to those dear Burnians who have sent emails to be sure I’m OK. I am right as rain and shooting my little heart out. Have just been taking a bit of time away from Burn. Actually I’ve been cutting way back on computer time altogether. It’s spring and the outside calls…


  • OK, I know where Patricia was, now, what about Jim Powers. What happened with him?

  • Jim lost it on the Roger Ballen essay spat the dummy and pissed off into off into a Texas sunset in disgust.

  • Patricia, did Christopher Morris show any more of his deliciously weird and dark little films at the festival? He blew a lot of minds, well mine certainly, in 2008 when he screened his b/w Bush film. Ominous stuff.

  • But im sure he has a peep in now and again, just to make sure we are still doing it all wrong.

  • a civilian-mass audience


    JIM is fine..I just talked to him…he was washing his corvette …yeap, and he was drinking
    cold beer…
    ahhhh…he had a haircut…just a trim…
    he is shooting…
    he mention something about …navel gazers…hmmmm…I have no clue…
    you know me…
    and of course…he refuses to accept his key for the Greek house…
    hmmm…I understand …
    WE LOVE YOU JIM and we miss you…
    VIVA !!!

    Tomorrow is REIMAR’S BIRTHDAY…I got red wine…

    I haven’t bought the magazine yet…I am waiting for my paycheck…:)((
    long wait…I am Greek afterall

    we travel with you…THANK YOU
    and by the way…where is this black donkey:)))???



    OURPATRICIA…THANK YOU …you are THE soul ,our inspiration,our white eagle…
    and yes…keep it UP …I believe in YOU !!!

    KATIE FONSECAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA…oime…kisses to the family…

    FORMULA ONE…broommmmmm….

  • a civilian-mass audience

    BOBBY BLACK…your birthday is coming too…
    I am getting ready:)))


    trees and dreams …and lullabies …

    I am not done yet…:)))

  • a civilian-mass audience

    and we need to hear from BURNIANS in China…
    big tornado ???

    may the spirits of life be with you …

  • a civilian-mass audience


  • WE LOVE YOU JIM and we miss you………………..not I

  • CIVI…

    Just re posting a link for Civilian chicken fanciers that you may have missed…

  • a civilian-mass audience


    I forgot to THANK you for the above link…
    one day …when you will visit Grecolandia
    you might find out that this Australian chicken breeder …has lots of similarities with
    your Civilian…:)))
    Matthew …thanks…and thanks for showing up…
    what are you shooting???

  • a civilian-mass audience

    we LOVE YOU …too…

    When is your book ready…??? hmmm…I am waiting for my paycheck
    let me know, so I can move accordingly


  • oi!!! “Ordinary One” ……. I have a three completed…….. David is having a Bo Peep at one…………………………

  • Anton, I just ordered 893 Magazine and I’m excited to see it. All the best.

    Anton’s 893 Magazine

  • CIVI,

    I was in Grecolandia a five years ago. It is a shame I knew so little then.
    You can see my journey on http://www.abc.net.au/dustonmyshoes/doms.htm
    My accomplice and I followed in the footsteps of a not soooo famous Aussie
    traveler called Peter Pinney….overland Grecolandia to Myanmar….

    Now I am shooting Tasmania – the heart shaped island at the bottom at the world….

  • a civilian-mass audience

    MATTHEW …is that you ??? MATT and ANNA…

    ok…take PETER PINNEY …your familia…and come over…
    you don’t need much…
    I don’t have much :)))
    you will “suffer” BUT I guess Tasmania…ain’t easy either…
    BRAVO !!!

  • a civilian-mass audience

    and I see that MATTHEW has a book out there…


    AND IMANTS is going or three books…and ROSSY …and ANDREAC…and LISA…and KERRY

  • Civi, check your e-mail…

  • I see (Jim Powers). Thanks Imants.

    I shall never “leave” BURN, even if I do not post anymore, someday (It’s a buddhist thing against clinging and “life is changes”, blahblah…) :-)))

  • My advice to you is get married: if you find a good wife you’ll be happy; if not, you’ll become a philosopher.
    ………………………………. Socrates

  • Aristotle Quote of the Day:

    All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind.

  • jenny lynn walker

    PANOS: No chance of that Aristotle Quote happening to me!

    CIVI: Oime?! : )

    BOB: They say that you don’t like things in others that you dislike in yourself and I see that it is me that writes way too much. I’m wishing you a truly wonderful birthday tomorrow!

    ALL: What not to love?! + Dreaming Big!!! (thanks to Patricia, and inspired by DAH and Anton)

    How about a little relaxation music and gorgeous landscapes because – although the fires are raging and skirmishes and clashes always underway somewhere – it is surely a WONDERFUL WORLD TODAY(plus i just heard the Thai government appears to have backed down on the ultimatum which if true, has saved this one at least!!!)


    : )

  • jenny lynn walker

    ps please do one wonderful and different thing tonight… something, even if very, very small, you don’t usually do… and keep it a secret : )

  • jenny lynn walker

    ps please do one wonderful and different thing tonight… something, even if very, very small, you don’t usually do… and keep it a secret : )

  • All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind.

    Aristotle did not know me, apparently! :-)))

    PS: Jenny, kiss something, someone, in Bangkok for me!

  • jenny lynn walker

    ok… gonna do it right away… you too Herve

    (if only the Thai PM was here – i’d like to give him a kiss for today’s decision – so long as there’s no u-turn)

  • Hmm.. Whatever happens in Vegas stays in Vegas…
    or something of this nature…and whatever happens in Vegas!
    plz, definitely u want it to be kept as secret .. no matter how
    “small” or “big”..
    Biggest hug

  • jenny lynn walker

    Kiss done!

    That quote was beyond me Herve, think I misunderstood it. No paid job is what I’ve been used to for a while – but I think it depends on the job, some paid jobs are super mind-expanding. : )

  • civi, wasn’t a donkey it was a beautiful black horse and it is in NW Arkansas where I am staying and rained in again!!!!

  • All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind.
    well said. I also feel that…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    EVA…Dearest EVA…
    please check your e-mail…
    I hope you will understand…you are a BIG HEART…a true BURNIAN…Speechless!!!

    THANK you again…

  • Civi, checked.. have not (big heart that is, don’t even know if I have one at all.. hmm…).. check back ;)

  • Don’t think this has been posted (apologies in advance if i’ve missed it somewhere)

    Thailand; Press; Photos; Boston.com


  • Hi everyone, DAH/Anton
    Long time no talk from me! How is everyone??? I see Burn has been getting hotter!!

    DAH/Anton, This sounds great! congrats to all of the future photographers to be published here on Burn!

    Aa question for you all…
    I’ve been working on a project about the city I live in since January. It’s a city of historical significance in Wisconsin and has a lot of character in its people and buildings. It’s on the western shore of Lake Michigan. It’s slowly losing its population down to about 2,300 from a peak of about 4,000 and is in transition from being an important town to its inhabitance to a stop for tourists…

    So my questions is: when I go out shooting – I always feel like I have to explain myself and why I’m there to everyone I meet. Usually nobody minds what I’m doing after I talk to them. But I always feel by talking to them, I am disturbing my subject and making them aware of my presence – causing them not to be as they were before I was there. I can shoot from a distance but I want to be close.

    How do many of you deal with this? I wish I could ask HCB his secret… perhaps it had a lot to do with him being foreign and having stealthy abilities (and a camera that doesn’t “CLACK” like mine ;)

  • DAH, my work from NY is in yet another gallery – I will send pictures soon, I also have a small book I’d like to send to you shall I send it to your NY address?

  • a civilian-mass audience

    “Kindness in words creates confidence. Kindness in thinking creates profoundness. Kindness in giving creates love.”
    Lao Tzu quotes (Chinese taoist Philosopher)

    VIVA …I LOVE YOU…!!!

  • a civilian-mass audience


    hmmm…as a civilian …my first reaction will be…WHY???
    for what reason???
    are you working for a newspaper???magazine???
    your answer might be…:
    no,I am just photographing for myself.
    and then a secret collaboration will begin…an intimate relationship will start
    and the rest is history…

    ok, goodnight ALLLLLL…from your house …somewhere in Grecolandia…
    feathers EVA:)))

  • Jason;

    I have to do the same thing shooting my kids project. For me; I prefer the “out in the open, go up and have a chat approach” compared to the invisible fly on the wall.

    I find that it generally relaxes people, you get to know them, you get to learn what else is going on in the area, and; they act more naturally when they trust you.

    I even have a bunch of A4 documents explaining the project and containing all my contact details in my camera bag to give to people.

    It might be a bit different for me because I’m photographing kids; and I want every “I” dotted and every “T” crossed…

    “I wish I could ask HCB his secret… perhaps it had a lot to do with him being foreign”

    In my opinion HCB’s best work was done at home in France, where he was not a foreigner! :-)

    Cheers :-)

  • All degrading jobs absorb and pay on the mind.

  • Jason they want to be discovered for fame and fortune that is what cameras are about

  • DAH and Anton: Thank you so very much for your generosity and vision … not necessarily in that order. Jason: the best advise I ever got was that it’s okay to be “the photographer”. (That we MUST be “the photographer”.) Also: there are paying jobs out there that nourish the soul each and every day. I have one and I’m pretty sure Lao Tzu would agree. PEACE.

  • Imants – I have been tossing around an idea of photographing the vanity of the US on that matter…

  • Thank you Ross and Civi for the ideas… I think the hardest thing is ok there are kids playing in the yard – today is different than it was then – you photograph them the parents want to know why, yell at the kid to come in and give you the nasty look or worse… – usually the kids aren’t being supervised much anyways.
    It just seems to me there is a sense of hysteria and a hyper-sensitivity to being photographed.
    If you’re shooting kids, are you some sort of pedophile? a kidnapper?
    And since many times since they’re not being supervised closely, the reaction is the kids shy up and run away…

    for adults – What are you going to use that photo for? Or there is also this reaction: “Oh you’re taking a photo – I’m sorry i’ll get out of your way.”

    I think it’s a combination of too many bad movies, too much bad news on tv and being the home to some creepy people – Ed Gein, Jeffrey Dahmer, etc… people get weirded out.

  • Jason;“I think the hardest thing is ok there are kids playing in the yard” etc.

    I agree things are different now than what they were “years ago”, but how about just going up to the house knock on the door and talk to the kid’s folks? Then if they are happy spend a few hours with those kids so they relax and forget about you.

    And never forget; don’t be afraid to make a bit of a goose of yourself around the kids! The kids and their parents will have a laugh; you’ll break the ice and probably get some good pics. Also; take some pics that the parents will like for their album and give them to them as hi-res jpegs on a cd.

    If I’m, at the skatepark, beach etc and there are no parents I dole out a ton of my cards and those A4 sheets and ask them to give them to their parents when they get home; and for their parents to contact me if needed.

    I spent about 4 or 5 hours (at least) with the “kids” in #11&12 in the gallery below. Just generally playing silly buggers until they regarded me as part of the furniture.

    Spent half the day with girls/family in #13 and one and a half days with the family of the girl in #14.


    I can honestly say I had the same fears as you when I started shooting my project but have encountered no negativity at all. I think it also comes down as to whether parents/kids can sense your honesty etc… That probably sounds a bit airy-fairy; but I’m sure it’s true. People can spot a bull-shitter from a hundred paces! :-)

    Actually I have had one piece of negativity; on last Xmas Eve. But it was from someone of my age, drunk and aggro, and really just spoiling for trouble and nothing to do with the project really. Just seeing someone with a camera was like a red rag to a bull….

    Hope this helps;

    Cheers :-)

  • Congratulations David, Anton, and the Burn community.

    David, the helicopter is finally scheduled… May 30th. Will keep you posted. Speaking of pay.. no one else wants this but I do and therefore it comes out of my pocket.

    Being poor can slow you down. Being wealthy can blind you and make you lazy.

    Best to stay optimized and energized either way.

  • i don’t see any problem of you keeping the money of the fee since you guys work so hard for Burn to happen, but it’s very loyal of you, Dah and Anton, to give it back paying for the published essays. You guys are fantastic! Inspiring people!

  • so here at Burn we are creating Circus Magazine for photographers 18 and under………. that is the important part unless you live in a third world country where the US dollar is worth a motza then the $500 will be a treasured to keep working

  • Interesting read on the perception of photographs by demonstrators in Bangkok. Through Agnès Dherbeys: ‘follow Claudio’s blog. He does his research 4his PHD in anthropology in Harvard and lives in Bkk for doing so.’

  • Thanks John! from that blog, today’s entry (17th) I think: “I notice however how many of them do not really look at the picture to see something but rather to find something and see what they want to”….

    Not surprising, I suppose, but to be compared with the crackdowns on monks and people (really unarmed, these ones) in Burma, 3 years ago, where what was really happening, the truth of it needed no spontaneous wishful manufacturing. When the danger was not just to take pictures, but even more dangerous: taking them out.

    I find the (zillion) pictures we see from the Bangkok siege shows a lot, but begins to explain absolutely nothing. It all seems a free for all photographer’s feast, very much akin, in more dramatic manner, to the “Welcome to amazing Thailand!” deployed in tourist brochures and tourist authorities campaigns.

    There is no “truth” in them . One single picture of a monk’s robe lying in a pool of mud and blood near Yangoon, Burma, told much more than those zillion shots of burning tires, and guys, soldiers or protesters, running to and fro, eyes shot red with adrenaline and tear gases.

    Food for thought….

  • Monk’s robe lying in blood, but I could have also mentionned the picture of an irate woman pushing back policemen in Phnom penh, another crying behind amidst a powerless crowd of their neighbours, all about to see their dwelling crushed by a caterpillar and an army of tool yielding goons, during a forced eviction process. Where is that crushing pain, the duress of proclaimed piled injustice in the Bangkok-burning pictures, and as well in the 2 months long protest itself? I do not see…

  • jenny lynn walker

    HERVE/ALL: I agree with you. Bangkok has become a place of violence – in SOME areas – and I think it is important to qualify this as the violence still remains HIGHLY LOCALIZED which is not at all easy to ascertain by looking at the news being circulated worldwide. Much of Bangkok is functioning perfectly normally.

    The violence taking place is being extremely well documented – much better than the first month of the protest which was entirely peaceful of course. Clearly there is an insatiable appetite around the globe for images/stories of violence – I guess that is what we call “the news”. Of course, there MUST be documentation at a time when the military has been given freedom to shoot people dead with LIVE BULLETS when they identify someone as “a terrorist” and have not issued guidelines on how to identify “a terrorist”.

    identifying members of the Red Shirts as “terrorists” can partially be traced back to a single photograph of someone that was dressed like “a terrorist” and was published in the New York Times (said now to be part of a para-military force that may or may not be on the side of the Reds) it seems to me and then, the fear that was spread. Where are the “men in black” at the moment? Has anyone taken any pictures of them over the past week?

    “Welcome to amazing Thailand”. Yes. It is also amazing how quickly damage to a whole nation can be done by exaggerated news coverage. Already governments were issuing travel warnings when there was virtually nothing to warn about because the problem, at that time, was so highly localized. I actually wonder whether there is an element of “we are creating the world we see” in all of this – whether sharing images of the violence breeds fear and more violence and it being sharing so rapidly, causes those in whose interest it is to see civil war in Thailand get their way. In whose interest is it to see civil war in Thailand anyway? Perhaps this ‘people’s revolution’ – if that is what it really is, is meant to be.

    I have today uploaded 2 images on Facebook and will upload a third related to Seh Daeng – the military general who was shot in the head while talking with journalists last week who died in hospital yesterday. His death lies behind this sudden increase in violence and I just can’t imagine who would have shot him because few things could have ignited such volatility as this. The images of him are of him signing t-shirts on the street during the protest – ie of him alive – and then at his funeral yesterday.

    By the way, does anyone know which party/government in Thailand has US-backing or which government in Thailand is favoured by the current US administration?

    Just one more thing: after witnessing several world news event’s (Mumbai terrorist attack, unrest in Nepal, Gadhimai Mela and now Bangkok) I’m questioning whether the zillions of photographs of simply the moments of violence help – especially when they’re being circulated at such a high speed that it puts great pressure on those who are actually in a position to slow things down through sensible, considered decision-making.

    PS Thanks Herve for your suggestion yesterday because when I kissed by husband in the internet cafe yesterday, it brought a smile.

  • “…The Communist insurgency led by the Communist Party of Thailand staged armed struggle in the countryside in the 60s. Communist and radical ideas attracted a handful of intellectuals. The communist movement was seen collateral with the independent movement in the Indochinese countries, waging war against the US. As a result, military junta expanded its grip. Intellectual as well as violent clashes between the junta and the intellectual sparked in the urban and the countryside respectively.
    Student-led uprisings in October 1973 led to a new vision of liberating the country from military government for a short period. The media received more freedom to criticize politicians and governments, while revolutionary and socialist movements became more apparent. The new civilian government officially shut the U.S. bases amid the fear of the communist victory in the Indochinese countries in 1975. In 1976, Admiral Sa-ngad Chaloryu, the armed forces commander, staged a massacre and coup that brought hardline anti-communists to power and reversed these reforms…”

  • Thaksin’s supporters, known as ‘The Red Shirts’, began its huge anti-government demonstration aiming at the resignation of the prime minister and the dissolution of the House of the Representatives

    In the January 2001 elections, telecommunications ‘multimillionaire’ Thaksin Shinawatra, who had relation with the 1990s junta, and his Thai Rak Thai (TRT) party won an overwhelming victory on a populist platform of economic growth and development.
    Thaksin also marginally escaped (8:7) a guilty verdict in the Constitutional Court where he was charged by the Board of Anti-Corruption of hiding hundreds-of-million-baht-worth of shares with several of his employees. A decade later, a Supreme Court ruling in another case accepted a possibility of bribery in the Constitutional Court case.

    The anti-government protesters were, said, mostly better educated, more affluent, urban Thais criticizing that the a Western-style electoral system corrupted by rich politicians, Thaksin was blasted as having exploited to buy votes, bureaucrats, policemen, military officers and even political factions. Thaksin became the example of the businessman autocrat, launching so-called populist projects which some were controversial such as the War on Drugs. Hundreds of killings and murder cases were said by the police, as the fighting among the drug traffickers. No further investigation carried on. Judicial process was seen as useless, instead, the decisive justice should be in the hands of the police.

    Thaksin hmmm…doesnt seem to be the good guy…either!

  • On May 3, the Thai Prime Minister announced he was willing to hold elections on November 14 should the opposition red shirts accept the offer. The following day red shirt leaders accepted the proposal to leave the occupied parts of Bangkok in return for election on the scheduled date.
    However, one week later, May 10, protesters had yet to dispand despite accepting the ‘road map’ proposed by the prime minister for early 2010 November elections. They placed new demands upon the Prime minister that Deputy Prime Minster Suthep Thaugsuban, who was incharge of security operations on the clash of april 10th, must first turn himself in for prosecution before they willingly disperse.

    its obvious that the Reds leaders changed their mind about the elections on november 14th…but why?
    did they realize they have no chance? Is it because that Thaksin guy is unpopular?

    In the afternoon of April 14, the anti-riot troops controlled all main streets. The leaders of the protest decided to give up their activity. During their protest, Thaksin video-linked to support the protesters, urging them to ‘bring him home’.
    Thaksin clearly vowed to topple the government, calling for ‘revolution’.

  • So what are you getting at with the Communist/anti-Communist history, Panos? It’s certainly a big clue in understanding the human world, but how do you see it as such?

    Since commenting from the proverbial 40,000 feet, I’ve read quite a bit on the current situation in Thailand. Apparently no one, at least no one who’s talking to the press, knows what’s going on. Not specifically anyway. Cause it’s safe to say that wealthy and powerful factions are jockeying for wealth and power. I doubt very seriously there are any good guys among them. At best someone may pretend to be one if it provides some immediate advantage. In that sense, your little history lesson is illustrative. Back when socialism was a real possibility, the powers that be made concessions, shared a bit more of the wealth, but have steadily been walking back those reforms as any real challenge to their control recedes. These changes move faster and much more violently in the third world (hate that term but can’t think of a better one. Calling it the developing world is sick joke), but we’re all going in the same direction. Although I have no idea what specifically is happening in Thailand right now, I suspect it’ll turn out to be another laboratory experiment for our future. When the current crisis is over, the rich will be richer, and fewer; the powerful more powerful, democracy weaker, wages lower, working conditions worse, the environment more endangered, the drugs and whores cheaper and more plentiful. Those things are not bugs. They are features.

  • “Welcome to amazing Thailand”. Yes. It is also amazing how quickly damage to a whole nation can be done by exaggerated news coverage. Already governments were issuing travel warnings…
    Question: can really those riots affect the traditional sex tourism in Thailand?

    “Thai society,
    has its own unique set of often contradictory sexual mores. Visiting a prostitute or a paid mistress is a not uncommon though not necessarily acceptable behavior for men. Many Thai women, for example, believe the existence of prostitution actively reduces the incidence of rape.
    Another reason contributing to this issue is that ordinary Thais deem themselves tolerant of other people, especially those whom they perceive as downtrodden. This acceptance has allowed prostitution to flourish without much of the extreme social stigma found in other countries. According to a 1996 study, people in Thailand generally disapprove of prostitution, but the stigma for prostitutes is not lasting or severe, especially since many prostitutes support their parents through their work. Some men do not mind marrying former prostitutes.[2] A 2009 study of subjective well-being of prostitutes found that among the sex workers surveyed, sex work had become normalized.[3]
    This cultural milieu combined with poverty and the lure of easy money have caused prostitution in general and sex tourism in particular to flourish.
    Estimates of the number of prostitutes vary widely and are subject to controversy. A 1980 study put the number of prostitutes at 500,000 to 700,000. A 2004 estimate by Dr. Nitet Tinnakul from Chulalongkorn University gives a total of 2.8 million sex workers, including 2 million women, 20,000 adult males and 800,000 minors under the age of 18.[4] One estimate published in 2003 placed the trade at US$ 4.3 billion per year or about three percent of the Thai economy.[5] It has been suggested for example that there may be as many as 10,000 prostitutes on Koh Samui alone, an island resort destination not usually associated with prostitution, and that at least 10% of tourist dollars may be spent on the sex trade.[6]
    Although centers such as Bangkok (Patpong, Nana Plaza, and Soi Cowboy), Pattaya, and Phuket (Patong) are often identified as primary tourist “prostitution” areas, with Hat Yai and other Malaysian border cities catering to Malaysians, prostitution takes place in nearly every major city and province in the country.
    Chiang Mai and Koh Samui (Chaweng and Lamai) are also major centers. In Bangkok, the so-called Ratchadapisek entertainment district, running along Ratchadapisek Road near the Huay Kwang intersection, features several large entertainment venues which include sexual massage. Even karaoke style bars in small provincial towns have their own versions, with women, in addition to singing traditional Thai music, sometimes engaging in prostitution.
    Perhaps as a parallel with the tenets of Thai Buddhism, Thai sex workers (and the whole culture, generally) does not feel guilt; thus, sex workers can and do feel respectable. Thais can feel shame, if specifically spotlighted by any potentially embarrassing situation, but guilt is absent.

    Legal situation and history

    Prostitution had been illegal in Thailand [9] since 1960, when a law was passed under pressure from the United Nations. However, the prohibition was seldom enforced. Instead, the government has instituted a system of monitoring sex workers in order to prevent their mistreatment and to control the spread of sexually transmitted diseases.[1] The 1960 Law was repealed by The Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act, B.E. 2539 (1996)[10].
    Thailand has an ancient, continuous tradition of legal texts, generally described under the heading of Dhammasattha literature (Thai pron., tam-ma-sat), wherein prostitution is variously defined, and universally banned. The era of traditional legal texts came to an end in the early 20th century, and the significance of these earlier texts on both the writ and spirit of modern legislation cannot be overlooked.[7]
    The “Entertainment Places Act of 1966” is one of the modern laws regulating massage parlors, go-go bars, karaoke bars, bathhouses and similar establishments. Under this law such establishments are required to be licensed. The law does not expressedly permit prostitution, but allows for “service providers” and “bath service providers,” differentiated from regular, non-sexual service staff.[8] For example, there are massage parlors where men come and look at women, who are sitting separated by a glass wall (known as a “fishbowl”), and may choose whom they want. The women go to a room where they bathe and massage the customers, but in reality may do much more than that.
    The Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act, B.E. 2539 (1996)[11] (the “Prostitution Law”), is the central legal framework prohibiting prostitution. The law defines prostitution as any act done to gratify the sexual desire of another in exchange for money or any other benefit, but only if it is done “in a promiscuous manner”. The Prostitution Law does not define what exactly a “promiscuous manner” constitutes, and the act of prostitution by itself is not outlawed anymore, while solicitation is. The crime of solicitation is vaguely defined. A “John” soliciting the services of a prostitute is liable under the Prostitution Law only if the solicitation is done “openly and shamelessly or causes a nuisance to the public”, the penalty being a fine of up to 1,000 baht.

    Interview with a Thai human rights activist

    Kritaya Archavanitkul, a Thai human rights activist, interviewed by UC Berkeley Institute of International Studies, said,
    “This is sad to say, that the Thai social structure tends to accept this sort of abuse, and not only to accept – we have laws, we have bills that vitally support the existence of these sex establishments. That’s one thing. And also, we have a Mafia that is also involved in the political parties, so this keeps the abuse going. The second reason is a cultural factor. I don’t know about other countries, but in Thailand the sexual behavior of Thai men accepts prostitution. Every class of Thai men accept it, although not all Thai men practice it. So they don’t see it as a problem. So when it comes to the policymakers, who are mostly men, of course, they don’t see this as a problem. They know there are many women who are brought into prostitution in Thailand. They know that some are treated with brutal violence. But they don’t think it’s a terrible picture. They think it’s just the unlucky cases. And, because of the profit, I think there are many people with an interest involved, so they try to turn a blind eye to this problem.”


  • And the idea that photography is a force for good is naive, to say the least. These days, in the larger sense, it’s like the rain. Pervasive and totally indifferent to any moral outcome.

  • 2008 July – Thaksin Shinawatra’s corruption trial begins.
    Thaksin’s wife is found guilty of fraud and sentenced to three years in jail. She is granted bail pending an appeal.

    2008 August – Thaksin flees to BRITAIN with his family after failing to appear in court to face corruption charges.

    Thai Supreme Court gives fugitive former PM Thaksin Shinawatra a two-year jail sentence after finding him guilty of corruption over a land deal.

    2009 March-April – Supporters of former PM Thaksin Shinawatra hold mass rallies against the government’s economic policies.

    2009 December – Up to 20,000 Thaksin supporters rally in Bangkok to demand fresh elections. Mr Thaksin addressed them by video-link.

    Supreme Court strips Mr Thaksin’s family of half of its wealth in verdict deeming that $1.4bn was acquired illegally through conflict of interest during his time as prime minister. Security forces placed on high alert amid fear of clashes with Thaksin supporters.


    HMMM.now i see why Thaksin urges the Reds to protest..because he is in exile and lost all his money…He cant be back in power unless there is some kind of revolution..definitely not under elections…It seems that he doesnt care about elections because he cant lead…He prefers destruction at this point while sitting in front of his TV somewhere in London , “broke”…

  • In whose interest is it to see civil war in Thailand anyway?
    hmmm Jenny…according to BBC at least..its in Thaksin’s interest ..nobody elses…..
    u know , that guy chilling somewhere in London right now…u know that guy that lost the Power plus 1.4bn$…of course he is mad as hell…

  • So what are you getting at with the Communist/anti-Communist history, Panos?
    well Michael..u know, that easy cliche that answers all questions? That the US is behind everything? well im not that sure it works well this time (of course i could be wrong, time will tell)…but it seems that the latest developments in Thailand “deserve” a more specific answer..

  • jenny lynn walker

    Panos: The change of mind to disperse was because there is absolutely NO trust in this government whatsoever among the Red Shirts and when a key leader is killed with a bullet to the head while he is being interviewed by the foreign press, who can blame them? Are you aware of how media control has grown under this government – everybody knows this. What you have totally missed in your investigation is the question is the issue of the monarchy. This government came into office because Thaksin was believed to be posing a threat to the monarchy and back then, there was talk of Thailand being made into a Republic (whether Thaksin was involved in any way in the discussions or not). You must also investigate in whose interest it is to have Thaksin up on corruption charges and his assets confiscated. And also which foreign governments may be interested in keeping this current government in office. Also ask the question who is funding all of this?

    By the way, there is a lot more to Thailand than either tourism or the sex industry.

  • jenny lynn walker

    PS But that is not to say that the King or the monarchy is in any way involved in this – especially if you read one of the few statements made by His Magesty back then (although it was the regiment under the Queen that was in charge of the military offensive on April 10). Best you also read the article on the fear surrounding what will happen when the king dies. He is much loved by so many here – the Economist article which was published, but banned here in Thailand, around a month ago partially covers that.

  • That’s why I’m searching and searching..
    Thaksin so far is affiliated with the 1991 junta,
    therefore he doesn’t hesitate to take the military on
    his side whenever and IF he can..
    There is no way I can prove how corrupted Thaksin is..
    ( most info comes through BBC love it or hate it..leave
    it or take it kinda thing).. Now the guy is a billionaire..
    Hmmm.. Not your average peoples guy, right?
    1.4 billion $ confiscated by the government..
    That all he had in a “Thai” bank plus land..
    Do u think that’s all he had? Do u think he can’t fund
    fireworks, M-16 or pistols? Plus he had the power for so long..
    What was the benefit for Thailand? Can’t u see that he boycots
    the elections because he is in exile? Isn’t kind of obvious that
    he prefers the mess? To come back as the Liberator?
    ( but of course if u have any new evidence.. Except from the good ol’
    CONSPIRACY THEORY cliche please let us know..that’s all I need ..
    New evidence for this puzzle.. Once again I don’t claim to know..
    I know nothing in fact.. But I want to figure it out.. People die in front
    of our eyes..)
    ps: sex trade in Thailand is 3% of the country’s income..
    Cannot understimate that..As the activist said above if you read it, prostitution
    is widely accepted in that culture.. Now why? One reason is because the younger can
    support the elders this way.. Also very complicated phenomenon..etc.. I’m not judging..
    Actually I need answers beyond judgements.. BEYOND GOOD OR BAD..
    everytime the word “good” or “bad” comes in , science goes out of the window

  • Question: can really those riots affect the traditional sex tourism in Thailand?

    traditions do not die easy, Panos!

    One thing for sure: it won’t affect the local prostitution (even more traditional!) and also wife and women slapping:


  • Herve I repeat that I’m not a politics expert neither a thailand analyst..
    Thanks for your latest link.. Obviously most Reds don’t want corrupted Thaksin either..
    They want-need- Democracy… One thing I see in common with many similar cases is
    the corrupted politicians
    corrupted politicians.. I see a similar drama in grecolandia too..
    People don’t know Who to vote for… The one political party is more corrupted than the other…
    Very rarely things are so obvious and “easy” just like the recent Bush(McCain) vs Obama election battle..
    Yes the poor Thai people DESERVE DEMOCRACY.. unfortunately the billionaire Tahksim is not that guy nor that King either…

  • it was the regiment under the Queen that was in charge of the military offensive on April 10


    The regiment was not under the Queen. It’s called the Queen’s regiment. It’s like saying, for ex., the Arc de Triumph horse race takes place in the Champs-Elysees. I doubt they are an intervention unit and “led” the charge, too, I will research on that (spectrum, a BKK post section had an article on their role that day, humanitarian in many ways, but only a vague recollection) .

    And again, the govnmt did not back off the deal. Red Shirt leadership agreed to it, but started to make more demands. Sorry, to me, the ones I don’t trust are the Red Shirts leadership (save one, Veera Musikhapong, who urged the others to abide by their agrrement, and failed to convince them).

    When you see these demands, it’s so fucking silly, (basic thai politics tit for tat). For crissakes, the date to the elction had been set,NOV 14, there is no way the govnmt could back off it, and lose face in front of the int. community, and its own people. Thailand is not BURMA, Jenny.

    I think these guys are just too caught up in their own self-aggrandizing, having been in the media glare for weeks, with thousands of demonstrators cheering their every word, day after day. They simply have lost a sense of reality, just like that general (basically, an homophobic right-winger who needed a cause to trump old criminal charges levied against him) who thought and said there was no way a sniper could hit him. Oh yeah?…..

    I must go, I could not read all (Panos, you are crazy….), But will a bit later.

  • Ha ha… ( laughing at myself )…
    I would never expect that Buddhist Thais have it so easy to slap women or accept their daughter’s prostitution either.. But I know for sure that regardless the riots the European perverts will still gonna flood the Thai brothels…

  • Jenny :-)))

    you know we can end up in jail (if in Thailand) talking/speculating about the king and the monarchy. Maybe in the same cell….. Tell your husband!!! :-))))))

    Running….. (happy Bday again, Bob Black!)

  • a civilian-mass audience


    where is REIMAR???
    and HERVE …yes…BOBBY’S birthday is coming up…
    where is BOBBY???

    Can I sing now???

    P.S my facebook account is under maintenance …hmmm…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    ok…let’s start again…

    can someone tell me what day is today???

  • a civilian-mass audience

    I am going out to compose…
    BUT I will be back …

    and today is…

  • Here’s a windy Tuesday.. better than a foggy Tuesday.. or:

    yesterday was printing day, this morning it was flattening prints day, now it’s scanning day, the part I hate.. or:

    it’s irnoing day, which beats cleaning day..

  • “Thaksin was blasted as having exploited to buy votes, bureaucrats, policemen, military officers and even political factions. Thaksin became the example of the businessman autocrat, launching so-called populist projects which some were controversial such as the War on Drugs. Hundreds of killings and murder cases were said by the police, as the fighting among the drug traffickers. No further investigation carried on. Judicial process was seen as useless, instead, the decisive justice should be in the hands of the police.”

    I hope more corrupted politicians will follow Thaksim in England..It’s beautiful in London..Little expensive but.. if they budget right this time… and stay away from Bentleys … but I’m curious as of why Thaksim chose London! Why not Bucharest or Malta.. Fun for every budget ..
    Way cheaper..Avoid Athens though:6 euro for a cappuccino in Syntagma square..

  • jenny lynn walker

    Panos: Well I agree with you when you say what is needed is real democracy and I know 100% for certain that all informed Red Shirt members believe that is what it’s all about and, why they are willing to die for it. The strength of feeling among protestors is remarkable, and upsetting, if you listen to their willingness to die for what they believe is ‘a movement for democracy’ – it is humbling and makes me think of all those who lived before us in our own countries who had to fight for their rights.

    Take a look back earlier on this thread, where there was some discussion on why so many are interested in the Red Shirt party and why they love Thaksin which relate to what he DID, rather than any promises being made now, for the man in the street when he was PM. But to talk about how small percentages of GDP are made just takes things off on a tangent that is, sorry to say it, irrelevant.

    The other thing is that there are many people studying Thai politics who, based on years of study, will tell you that the whole subject is incredibly complex. To get to grips with it – to go deeper – requires talking to these experts as well as all the parties involved in it. This current government is also increasingly aware of the reforms that are needed and are saying they’re working towards it – particularly since the eyes of the world are now focused on what is going on here in the Land of Smiles. There are in fact a very large number of Thai people – among the 60 plus million – who are simply getting on with their every day lives as normal and are perplexed by what’s being shown in the news.

  • jenny lynn walker

    HERVE: I believe you are misinformed and will send you the relevant article.

  • hmmmmm….
    “Despite the majority and surging popularity amongst rural Thais, Thaksin came under severe questioning for selling telecommunication shares to Temasek, a Singapore investor for about 70,000 million baht without paying any tax. More complex and high-level corruption and conspiracies were discovered and exposed by Sonthi Limthongkul, Manager Media Group owner, who reached the middle class in the capital and the cities through the only small satellite and internet media channel, ASTV.

    Thaksin refused to publicly answer PAD’s questions. Because of failure to clear himself in the alleged corruptions, Thaksin’s regime fell apart during public protests led by the People’s Alliance for Democracy which led to widespread calls for his resignation and impeachment.

    The People’s Alliance for Democracy, a large group of the middle class and a coalition of anti-Thaksin protesters, led by Sonthi Limthongkul, gathered in Bangkok, demanded that Thaksin resign as prime minister so that the King could directly appoint someone else. Thaksin refused and protests continued for weeks.”

  • Thousands dead as a result of Thailand’s “war on drugs”
    By Susanne Ilchmann
    9 May 2003
    Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra last week announced “victory” in a vicious, anti-drug campaign, in which police were given a licence to use “extreme measures” to stamp out the selling of methamphetamines, known locally as “yaba” or “crazy medicine”.
    This three-month reign of police terror left at least 2,274 people dead. The government and police implausibly ascribed the deaths to gangland feuding, insisting that only 42 drug suspects were shot by police officers—most of those in “self-defence”. In fact, the government openly encouraged the police to carry out extra-judicial killings so that the arbitrary goals of its “war on drugs” could be met on time.
    2.274 Killed by Thaksin’s army…
    Isn’t this guy a thug????

  • The THAKSIN government used a system of bribes and threats to ensure that regional governors and police chiefs carried out the campaign. Three lists were compiled: one by police; the second by local administrative organisations and village heads; and the last by the Narcotics Control Board. Officials who failed to meet their quotas faced dismissal. Those who brought in a “major drug dealer”—dead or alive—received a bounty of one million baht ($US23,600).
    But just who has been arrested or gunned down is unclear, as the allegations against those on the blacklists have not been tested in a court of law. Those whose names appeared had no way of finding out the nature of the accusations against them. Terrified of being framed up or shot dead, thousands opted to hand themselves in and submit to a course of boot-camp style rehabilitation.
    Among those killed was a nine-year-old boy who was shot dead in late February. While undercover police were arresting his father, allegedly in a sting operation, his panic-stricken mother sped off in the family vehicle with the child on board. When police caught up with the car, the woman fled. Before opening the vehicle, the police fired into it at point-blank range killing the boy.
    Thaksin has been able to exploit public hostility to illicit drugs to boost his popularity and deflect attention from the failure of his government to address unemployment, poverty and other social problems that lie at the root of drug abuse. However, the cold-blooded killing of the nine-year old boy sparked public outrage. Since then there has been growing criticism.
    A survey conducted by the Assumption University found that 84.2 percent of Bangkok residents surveyed supported the campaign. But of those same people, 65.3 percent expressed their fear that corrupt police could frame-up innocent people. The very nature of the campaign left the door wide open for those compiling the blacklists to use them to settle personal grudges or deal with business or political opponents.
    The Human Rights Commission was contacted by a number of people who said they had been wrongly included on the blacklists. Government officials called for such complaints to be directed to drug suppression officials. But as Sunai Phasuk from Forum Asia, a human rights organisation, pointed out: “Most of them [the victims] got killed on the way back from the police office. People found their name on a blacklist, went to the police, then end up dead.”

  • Print
    Share »
    Thousands dead as a result of Thailand’s “war on drugs”
    By Susanne Ilchmann
    9 May 2003
    Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra last week announced “victory” in a vicious, anti-drug campaign, in which police were given a licence to use “extreme measures” to stamp out the selling of methamphetamines, known locally as “yaba” or “crazy medicine”.
    This three-month reign of police terror left at least 2,274 people dead. The government and police implausibly ascribed the deaths to gangland feuding, insisting that only 42 drug suspects were shot by police officers—most of those in “self-defence”. In fact, the government openly encouraged the police to carry out extra-judicial killings so that the arbitrary goals of its “war on drugs” could be met on time.
    The Narcotics Control Board provided the indices: 1,765 people arrested as major drug dealers and another 15,244 as minor dealers. More than 280,000 “drug pushers” and “addicts” gave themselves up to authorities and were sent for rehabilitation. In all, some 15.5 million pills were confiscated and the street price for the drug doubled or trebled over the course of the three months from February 1 to April 30.
    All 75 of Thailand’s provinces reported that they had more than fulfilled their quota of reducing the number of drug dealers by 50 percent. In some cases, officials boasted of a 100 percent “success rate”—that is, all drug dealers in their province either dead or detained. Interior Minister Wan Muhammad Nor Matha claimed that 440 local officials and politicians, including two police colonels, had been dismissed because of links to drug trafficking.
    The government used a system of bribes and threats to ensure that regional governors and police chiefs carried out the campaign. Three lists were compiled: one by police; the second by local administrative organisations and village heads; and the last by the Narcotics Control Board. Officials who failed to meet their quotas faced dismissal. Those who brought in a “major drug dealer”—dead or alive—received a bounty of one million baht ($US23,600).
    But just who has been arrested or gunned down is unclear, as the allegations against those on the blacklists have not been tested in a court of law. Those whose names appeared had no way of finding out the nature of the accusations against them. Terrified of being framed up or shot dead, thousands opted to hand themselves in and submit to a course of boot-camp style rehabilitation.
    Among those killed was a nine-year-old boy who was shot dead in late February. While undercover police were arresting his father, allegedly in a sting operation, his panic-stricken mother sped off in the family vehicle with the child on board. When police caught up with the car, the woman fled. Before opening the vehicle, the police fired into it at point-blank range killing the boy.
    Thaksin has been able to exploit public hostility to illicit drugs to boost his popularity and deflect attention from the failure of his government to address unemployment, poverty and other social problems that lie at the root of drug abuse. However, the cold-blooded killing of the nine-year old boy sparked public outrage. Since then there has been growing criticism.
    A survey conducted by the Assumption University found that 84.2 percent of Bangkok residents surveyed supported the campaign. But of those same people, 65.3 percent expressed their fear that corrupt police could frame-up innocent people. The very nature of the campaign left the door wide open for those compiling the blacklists to use them to settle personal grudges or deal with business or political opponents.
    The Human Rights Commission was contacted by a number of people who said they had been wrongly included on the blacklists. Government officials called for such complaints to be directed to drug suppression officials. But as Sunai Phasuk from Forum Asia, a human rights organisation, pointed out: “Most of them [the victims] got killed on the way back from the police office. People found their name on a blacklist, went to the police, then end up dead.”
    Growing criticisms

    The Thai media and civil rights activists have been critical of the government’s flagrant disregard for democratic rights and its threadbare justifications for the killings. “If the police weren’t involved, why hasn’t one murderer been arrested?” asked human rights lawyer Somchai Homlaor. “The only sensible conclusion is the police are sending out death squads.”
    Thepchai Yong, editor of the Nation, told the Australian TV program Dateline: “Nobody’s buying that [the government’s] line because we believe that the authorities, the police in particular, were involved in many of the killings. So if what the Interior Minister claims is true, that the killings were the result of a double crossing, or killings among drug dealers themselves, it means drug dealers are in control of the country.”
    Forum Asia said that the government was encouraging police to “simply execute alleged offenders… This makes it increasingly easy for the police and other authorities to simply do away with anyone they don’t like.” The group issued a statement in late February calling for “immediate investigations into the shootings, in which some [victims] were handcuffed when killed or shot in a group. There were at least three cases which experts were able to examine and they found that the suspects had had drugs planted on them after death, and that bullets had been removed before coroners examined the bodies.”
    Others have pointed out that the round-up or killing of large numbers of drug addicts or petty pushers will do nothing to halt drug trafficking as those who control the trade have connections in the highest quarters, including the police and military.
    Former national police chief Pol Gen Sawat Amornwiwat declared in January that “senior state officials and politicians” were “in cahoots with drug traffickers” and that a list prepared by the Drugs Enforcement Agency in 1992 included the name of a senior Thai politician. “The main obstacle is that influential people provide support for drug traffickers and make fantastic amounts of money,” he said.
    Attempts were made to silence the critics. In early March, Dr Pradit Chareonthaitawee, Thailand’s National Human Rights Commissioner, received anonymous death threats, warning him to stop taking his concerns to the United Nations. Shortly afterwards, Suranand Vejjajiva, a spokesman for the ruling Thai Rak Thai Party, threatened to impeach the commissioner for speaking to the UN about the government’s blacklists, extra-judicial killings and failure to prosecute cases involving drug-related murders.
    Opposition politicians warned that the “war on drugs” could lead to international censure over human rights violations and frighten off foreign investors. The prime minister, however, arrogantly dismissed such concerns. The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights was forced to cancel a proposed visit by a special envoy, when the government refused to cooperate.
    Responding to a Senate proposal to hold an inquiry into police practices, Thaksin advised the body to ignore “the thinking of foreigners,” adding: “It is not necessary for Thailand to make any explanation to the UN. We are a sovereign country. If any country wants to cut aid because of what were are doing, frankly speaking, I don’t really care.”
    Following criticisms in the US Congress, the government reacted similarly this week to suggestions that the US might cut off financial aid and technical assistance to the Thai armed forces. Confident that he enjoys the support of Washington, Thaksin declared: “We have explained this [war on drugs] to the US ambassador and the US administration understands it very well.”
    Thaksin, one of the country’s wealthiest businessmen, has close connections to the country’s security forces. He made much of his vast fortune through monopoly rights and state contracts granted by former military regimes.
    Thaksin and his Thai Rak Thai Party won the 2001 election campaign by exploiting the widespread public hostility to the impact of the IMF restructuring agenda being implemented by his predecessor Chuan Leekpai. He campaigned on a populist program that offered handouts to rural villages and debt relief to farmers while at the same time pledging to bail out failing Thai businesses.
    But the government has no solutions to the huge social problems that afflict the lives of the majority of Thais. Through its “war on drugs,” the government is preparing for further attacks on democratic rights, which will, in the future, be directed against its political opponents.
    The government has already foreshadowed a crackdown on drug-related finances. A new law retrospective to February 1 is to be introduced to reward governors with 30 percent of the value of any drug-related assets that are seized. Another 15 percent will be set aside for successful detectives and for anyone providing tip-offs.
    The Office of Narcotics Control Board, National Police Office and Interior Ministry plan to establish a nationwide database of dealers and addicts. Provincial government will be asked to establish special investigative offices and the Anti-Money Laundering Office will be given increased powers to tap phone lines.


    all this info from 2003…
    I think it’s about time for Thaksim guy to leave not only the REDS but also the rest of Thailand alone…
    I suggest.. Stay in London ..he is well covered there..:(

  • jenny lynn walker

    Panos: How about doing a similar investigation into the Yellow party as well? It would be great if you share the sources of the information you are sharing in quotes ” ” then we know who you are quoting and where the information comes from. Are you planning on doing a story on Thailand and coming to Bangkok or just bored?





    to paraphrase Civi:



  • U see Jenny that Thaksim’s murders speak louder than his constant tax evasion..and many economic scandals..
    Question is how much $$ he generated under that “war on drugs”? Because it seems that this ruthless guy only “lost” 1.4bn$ from the latest regime… Ahhh..that’s nothing..
    If only the dead could come back and talk..

  • Ha ha.. Reveal my sources???,
    I post those secret sources under every post I do..
    Usually starts as http//…
    Here once again:


  • … and I’m not planning on doing anything…
    I just DID it…:))

  • a civilian-mass audience

    ok…I composed…:

    you are a brave man
    with your optimism
    we found hope
    when the soul is clean
    we can all …proceed…

    you are a brain man…
    with your heart
    with your posts
    we feel proud
    to ride along

    hiihiii…………….I composed…:)))

    yes,BOBBY…LOVE YOU ALL…MARINA and DIMAS…Enjoy the BOB=BeautyOfBOB…

  • jenny lynn walker

    BOB: Happy Birthday! I hope you’re having a wonderful day!

  • a civilian-mass audience

    PANOS…you are next in my Birthday list…
    I will compose for you too…

    keep it rocking…tell it as it is or it isn’t…

    EVA…I don’t have ANTON’S copy yet in my hands…
    I will e-mail soonest …too many Birthdays…I got to compose…:)))

  • You see Jenny every time I see people protesting and dying for a cause I’m instantly with them..
    It’s easy to love the protester and easier to hate the police..
    Now when my (still) ignorant watching all those dead Reds I immeadiately identified with them..
    But I hate letting myself being manipulated..emotionally at least.. So questions arrived in my poor ignorant brain.. Why this.. Why that! I always wondered why I can’t visit Thailand and not be able to smoke a fatty (joint) while the old guy next room has 5 twelve year olds in his bed for the price of a hamburger and goes away unpunished ..
    So I started from the head… In Greece they say that for the fish that goes bad always check the head first.. Hmmm , the Head.. The Leader(s)…
    Now since i support any protesters by enstict ( the Red Shirts in this occasion ) I thought that I needed to find as much as I can about their leader…and I got shocked..but hopefully that Thaksin guy is no longer their leader.. Then more power to the Reds…

  • jenny lynn walker

    May the violence stop in Bangkok.

    This from Amnesty International calling for military to stop using lethal force (today):


    This from Amnesty International calling for military to stop using lethal force (yesterday):


    And this:


    Similar requests also made by Human Rights Watch.

  • and Jenny one last thing about me that most here already know..
    I can be VERY annoying at times…
    big hug

  • jenny lynn walker

    Panos: They have outgrown him.

  • Every time I complain over the phone with my mother about our dear Mr. President (Berlusconi that is) she tells me: every nation has the government it deserves..

  • That’s what I hope too Jenny…
    I would die too for a cause but I wouldn’t do it just to install another asshole on top of my people..
    I’m against any uniform but we all have to watch out who will we bring next to power..
    I hope that the Red Shirt riots will eventually force the above to accept democracy..
    If not..so much blood already wasted..

  • a civilian-mass audience

    oime…I saw some photos…are you painting Bangkok red…???
    may the spirits of safety …be with you…

    yeap, your mom sounds like a civilian…

    ok…I am gonna start reading PANOS posts…
    I will be back tomorrow:)))

    I messed Up…REIMAR’S birthday is on Thursday…

  • Eva that’s a dangerous generalization..
    Neither the Italians deserved Mussolini nor the Germans that Adolf guy..:(

  • a civilian-mass audience


    are you in Athens…???
    my e-mail civilianma@yahoo.com

    I got wine…

  • Not all Americans deserved Bush…and not all Iraqis deserved that Saddam dictator.. It’s usually the upper cast, that 1% that decides..
    No real democracy as the Ancient Greeks practised it..We need to “reinvent” democracy…

  • And since Jenny asked me to refer to sources..;)
    I would say anything from Plato or anything that mention Socrates would do..;)

  • jenny lynn walker

    EVA: Does she means the people asked for it, voted for it, followed it and/or put up with it? Say hi to your Mom from me! : )

  • Panos, Jenny..I think it’s true.. ’cause people (not all, but some, a lot in many cases) are simply lazy and don’t think ahead of their noses, all is fine as long as they’re fine. Better not question too much, or it could be that you must give up some of your advantages for the greater good, for your neighbour..

    Mussolini (as Hitler did) brought work in a moment of crises (well before WWII started), which was a good thing.. but what was the price? Whenever too much power (money) is concentrated within a too small circle it gets dangerous, even more so if the same circle stays in power for a long number of years.

    Change can come only from within, it’s the people like you and me that have to take consciousness of what happens around, and most importantly of the WHY this happens. The upper 1% decides, yes, the upper 1% also decides how ignorant the masses have to be, power, money and very often religion, go hand in hand, it’s difficult, but still, it’s the little wo/man that has the power to change things.

    Civi, she is indeed.. smart little lady :)

  • Eva…I liked that wo/man thing.. I’ll use it..
    Now about the manipulation of the mass? It’s easier to convince three people instead of one..
    All politicians know that.. The Mass is blind..

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Happiness Comes With Age, Study Reveals…
    …Life looks a little rosier after 50, a new study finds. Older people in their mid- to late-50s are generally happier, and experience less stress and worry than young adults in their 20s, the researchers say……

    don’t ask me …how old I am …BUT I am happy…Am I ???

  • a civilian-mass audience

    the MASS is blind…

    I am going out …to compose…
    and I am full of silents…
    the mass is blind…


  • “Never in my life I thought I would see the police dismantling a barricade just built being cheered by the same people who put it on, standing cheerfully around.”

    This is from a link John Vink posted earlier:


    Panos: “It’s easier to convince three people instead of one..” right on, if you are alone you must use your own brain cells, nobody can think for you..

    Civi.. where do the grumpy by nature fit into that study?..

  • Happiness Comes With Age, Study Reveals…
    civi you got it all messed up…

    people age 65 and older accounted for 16 percent of suicide deaths in 2004.
    14.3 of every 100,000 people age 65 and older died by suicide in 2004, higher than the rate of about 11 per 100,000 in the general population.
    Non-Hispanic white men age 85 and older were most likely to die by suicide. They had a rate of 49.8 suicide deaths per 100,000 persons in that age group.

    For every 100,000 people age 65 and older in each of the ethnic/racial groups below, the following number died by suicide in 2004:

    Non-Hispanic Whites — 15.8 per 100,000
    Asian and Pacific Islanders — 10.6 per 100,000
    Hispanics — 7.9 per 100,000
    Non-Hispanic Blacks — 5.0 per 100,000

    Ask yourself…

    …if you feel:

    that you don’t enjoy things you used to
    that life isn’t worth living
    …or if you are:

    sleeping more or less than usual
    eating more or less than usual
    These may be symptoms of depression, a treatable illness. Talk to your doctor.

    Other symptoms that may signal depression, but may also be signs of other serious illnesses, should be checked by a doctor, whatever the cause. They include:

    being very tired and sluggish
    frequent headaches
    frequent stomachaches
    chronic pain

  • Older adults have the highest suicide rate — more than 50% higher than young people or the nation as a whole.

  • Each year more than 6,300 older adults take their own lives, which means nearly 18 older Americans kill themselves each day
    civi..take notice!


  • Panos.. Civi sits safe and blind in Grecolandia ;)

  • Elderly people have a higher risk of completed suicide than any other age group worldwide. Despite this, suicide in elderly people receives relatively little attention, with public health measures, medical research, and media attention focusing on younger age groups.


    u see, civi..wishes and good intentions and blah blah dont really help…accepting the truth , seeing the real problem is a step to prevention and help..”suicide in elderly people receives relatively little attention”…

  • Civi sits safe and blind in Grecolandia ;)
    well…conformism creates blindness and fake security…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    … older people are better at controlling their emotions than younger people. Or it might have something to do with nostalgia, the idea that older people remember fewer negative memories and so are happier…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    … older people might focus less on what they have or have not achieved, and more on how to get the most out of the rest of their lives…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    “…wishes and good intentions and blah blah dont really help…accepting the truth , seeing the real problem is a step to prevention and help..”

    suicide in elderly people receives relatively little attention”…
    PANOS…an that be your calling???…just a suggestion…
    …when you have time…take some other BURNIANS and come to find me …
    I am safe and blind somewhere…lost in Grecolandia

    it’s night…my chickens are waiting…Eleonora, Agathoklis…Athena,…more ladies…

  • Panos, I don’t know, I mean I have no statistics at hand, nor studies or such, but my guess is that America is not Greece is not Korea is not Ghana is not Peru is not NZ etc. .. ‘sides that, Civi has to wait for a looooong looong time.. s/he knows why, deal is deal :)

  • Way off topic here:

    Anyone know which format buying music give the greatest amount to the musicians? iTunes? Physical CD? Amazon music?

  • Ahh Eva.. I know (and I’m sure Akaky will agree with me) I’m a pessimist..
    That’s why unfounded over optimism gets on my nerves.. The only thing you can achieve by telling people “everything is Fine, stay in your couch” is numb them and isolate them.. I know that very well.. my mother and my family does that systematically…ahh life sucks..

  • Today is Bob Black’s birthday??? The same as one of my ex-wives… this helps explain a lot…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    yeap…I get your point PANOS…
    …unfounded over optimism…
    you are a real ZORBAS…a photophilosopher
    you are “build” with a “night” vision
    but I am a civilian…a mass…
    I am hiding behind my naive optimism …
    cause the governments took away my money
    the families took away my pride
    the husbands and wives took away my innocence
    the so called friends took away my dreams
    and here I am …I found an open window…
    I saw some light and I jumped in
    I am safe and blind
    nobody can take away my optimism …and my chickens…:)))

    P.S Back to the trees and dreams…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    welcome back SIDNEY…you have been missed…

    AKAKY…305 …just for the record…


  • Hey kids, time to cheer up here some fun quotes to entertain all the optimists (and not so) out there:

    “The thought of suicide is a powerful solace: by means of it one gets through many a bad night”
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    “I’m not upset that you lied to me, I’m upset that from now on I can’t believe you”
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    have done that,” says my memory. “I cannot have done that” — says my pride, and remains adamant. At last — memory yields.”
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    “The real reason for not committing suicide is because you always know how swell life gets again after the hell is over”
    Ernest Hemingway

    “Suicide is man’s way of telling God, “You can’t fire me – I quit.””
    Bill Maher

    “Suicide is the punctuation mark at the end of many artistic careers”
    Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

  • Ahhh…those Ancient Greeks again…

    From time immemorial, suicidal feelings and hopelessness have been considered part of ageing and understandable in the context of being elderly and having physical disabilities. The Ancient Greeks tolerated these attitudes in the extreme and gave elderly people the option of assisted suicide if they could plead convincingly that they had no useful role in society.

  • Now with this placing stuff in boxes mentality……… are you guys the 1% or the ignorant masses?

  • …the “inspiration” came from an article i read yesterday about the recent economic crisis in greece and the rise of suicide attempts .The only way to figure this out is to simply wait..Some speculate the rise of drug use which makes sense but higher suicide rates? i have no idea..we will see…The article is not translated so i cant share it but it compares the new situation in greece (IMF recent loan) with the Great Depression of the 30ies…When desperate people used to jump out of buildings because they couldnt repay their debts..
    (some facts about the Great Depression below):

  • easy one..at the other 1% (lower bottom)…

  • BREAKING NEWS…..CONGRATULATIONS LANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Lance Rosenfield “Thirst for Grit”
    May 25-July 3 @ L. Nowlin Gallery
    Opening Reception June 5th, 6-8pm
    First Thursdays: June 3rd & July 1st, 6-8pm
    Preview Show

    “I have traveled many hot and dusty miles crisscrossing this oft-lonely expanse, following
    the itinerant ways of these men who live a life of legend and little. They share a special
    bond, a camaraderie with one another that seems to center on respect, loyalty and
    toughness.” – Lance Rosenfield

    L. Nowlin Gallery // 1202 w. 6th st. Austin, TX 78703 // 512.626.9301 // http://www.lnowlingallery.com

  • Now what colour, shape may that box be or have all the free spirits left?

  • bottom of the box is open but many afraid of the underground garage…its kinda dark there

  • Ahh the old bottom of Grandfather’s garden mentality ………. http://www.etrouko.com.au/iman.htm


    Jean-Luc Godard cancels his much anticipated appearance to Cannes following problems of “Greek type”.
    He said:

    “I will go until death with the Festival but I will not be taking a single step further. Following Greek type problems, I cannot be the person you require.”

    In an interview he also said, “When Greece is in crisis, I do not go to festivities”

    “Greece is burning and Cannes is in its own planet”. This is the deeper meaning in the brief statement published in yesterday’s «Liberation».

    The newspaper’s art editorial is illustrative and hard. Some wrote that Godard refuses to squeeze between Ferraris, sunburned bimbos and guys who smoke cigars. He refuses to become the showcase of this festival!

    In another interview in the magazine «Les Inrockuptibles” he said: “Philosophy, Democracy, tragedy. All emerged from Greece. Do you forget what is the relationship between Philosophy and Tragedy? Without Sophocles there would be no Pericles. Without Pericles there would be no Sophocles.”

    Just for the record, Sophocles wrote “Antigone”, THE PLAY.

    You do not need any special scenic set, no background, no fancy or special clothes, no makeup, just good actors.

    The play talks straight to the heart..

    Godard has also said: “Cinema is not necessarily to be found in films.”

    That reminds me of Charles Baudelaire. Very few people know it but Baudelaire was the poet prophet of the cinema:

    “We want to travel without steam or sail.

    Propel your memories with their window horizon,

    Illuminating the boredom of our prisons

    Across the taut screen of our minds”

    But all this has nothing to do with show business and Cannes Festival..maybe this is why I do not like spectacles and why Godard refuses to “go further”…

    (yes mr. Godard, exactly..thank you…The whole world owes grrece trillions in copyrights but instead they send greece to the lions (IMF)…
    Once again shame on all european governments …

  • he he..i didnt open the Pandoras box Imants..;) GODARD did…and he is French you know..

    “Due to problems the Greeks would be familiar with, I unfortunately cannot be at your disposal in Cannes,” Godard said, in a statement in French newspaper Liberation today (as translated from French by indieWIRE). “I’d walk to the ends of the earth for the festival,” he added, “But alas I will not be taking a single step further. Sincerely, Jean-Luc Godard.”

    In its original French, the statement read: “Suite à des problèmes de type Grec, je ne pourrai être votre obligé à Cannes.“Avec le festival, j’irai jusqu’à la mort, mais je ne ferai pas un pas de plus. Amicalement. Jean-Luc Godard.”

    Godard’s latest, “Film Socialisme,” is a 100-minute experimental assemblage of video images, sounds and text, following a loose narrative and incorporating archival footage that begins on a cruise ship. While rocker Patti Smith, strumming a guitar, makes a cameo appearance in part one of the three part movie, the film primarily follows on a group of young people who are armed with a camera and incorporates separate imagery from six locations, including Egypt, Palestine, Odessa, Hellas, Naples and Barcelona.
    A four-minute teaser trailer for the film features fast forwarded footage from the film, giving viewers a sense of what to expect. “Film Socialisme” is also being made available via VOD here in France this week concurrent with the movie’s debut at the festival.

  • Jean-Luc Godard’s latest and maybe LAST film “Socialism”

    To add fuel to the fire, the English subtitles of “Film Socialism” do not perform their normal duties: Rather than translating the dialogue, they’re works of art in themselves, truncating or abstracting what’s spoken onscreen into the helmer’s infamous word assemblies (for example, “Do you want my opinion?” becomes “Aids Tools,” while a discussion about history and race is transformed into “German Jew Black”).

  • Poor bloody “Grieks”…….. lets create a tragedy, hey it worked last time the whole world loved us because we are the cultural heritage………… not this time buddy you guys are full of shit!!! ……………like the messages our Greek community gets here from the relatives in Greece: help us we are poor give us your money!!!!!!!!

  • CIVI :)))))

    “The amount of happiness that you have depends on the amount of freedom you have in your heart.”–Thich Nhat Hanh:

    BROTHER PANOS ! :))))))))

    i saw that today….my bud Jean-Luc! :))))))…he got that right! :)))))

    “To be or not to be. That’s not really a question.”-Jean-Luc Godard

    SIDNeY! :)))

    ok, ok, ok, le’t be honest for once, it’s Burn, already:

    I AM your ex-wife ;))))))))))))))))))


    running to blow out candles…


    P.S. GO LANCE GO LANCE GO LANCE GO LANCE….will write you tomorrow…no time today!

  • “The amount of happiness that you have depends on the amount of freedom you have in your heart.”–Thich Nhat Hanh:

    that makes me wanna light another cigarette but smoke it in a more relaxing way this time…hmm, thanks Bob thats good food for thought….:)

  • help us we are poor give us your money!!!!!!!!
    ha..u made me laugh…”your money”…go tell this to any bank…you need a $1.2 to buy $1 …
    “your” money, “my” money…Americas money, Chinas money, IMF money…ha ha ..it all belongs to the bank buddy..you wanna think its yours…Its their $$

  • Doesn’t matter people a here are pissed off with the “old Greek tragedy” the difference is that our banks though as spitefull as the rest are not up shit creek without a paddle

  • true,true..but not because of Hard working…laughing…but because of Good Luck…

    Australia’s abundant and diverse natural resources attract high levels of foreign investment and include extensive reserves of coal, iron ore, copper, gold, natural gas, uranium, and renewable energy sources.


  • its a great island…and whats best? no neighbors around it…good times:)

  • we don’t retire at 50 odd as you lot did and we work longer hours…….. lazy sods you lot are hmmn, the EU would have been better to dig a ditch around you lot and cast you adrift so you can be in exile with the rest of your ex leaders who have your cash

  • Panos you can always apply to emigrate to Australia but then you lot reckon we are philistines……..

  • apply?…ha ..i was about to and then i realized that:

    Sex ratio:

    at birth: 1.06 male(s)/female
    under 15 years: 1.05 male(s)/female
    15-64 years: 1.03 male(s)/female
    65 years and over: 0.84 male(s)/female
    total population: 1 male(s)/female (2009 est.)

    not enough women there..so forget it…im sure u dont need more men over there…;)

  • we will welcome you with open arms……. as long as you don’t come by a rickity boat then you get to have Christmas every day on a far flung island http://www.safecom.org.au/alcatraz-downunder.htm

  • Don’t worry about that Panos we have a very active gay community here so the stats don’t tell the full story………. we will even offer you a choice.

  • Who knows we may even see you with a new nickname…….. “Backdoor Panos”………… Laughing aloud!!!!!!

  • hmm..why didnt u start with that piece of information? now i have to cancel India and start allover…

  • ……. work time here catcha.

  • go to work then…leave me here all alone counting the debt…

  • Brian Frank
    May 18, 2010 at 4:05 pm
    Way off topic here:

    Anyone know which format buying music give the greatest amount to the musicians? iTunes? Physical CD? Amazon music?

    it depends of the deal…for big label guys=CD

  • Panos – You could move to Melbourne , biggest Greek city outside of Greece and your money is worth the paper it’s written on.

    Back Door Panos , I like it!

    Come to Australia Panos and see a real desert.


  • I was looking through my photos from last week and noticed that I could do a “Laboratory of the Future” themed slideshow, albeit with a much more traditional take than Bowden. Sorry.

  • “Suicide is man’s way of telling God, “You can’t fire me – I quit.””
    Bill Maher

    Funny, yesterday I read this one:

    “Suicide is the most beautiful gift God gave man.” – Pliny the Elder.

    Go figure……

  • HERVE: I believe you are misinformed

    Jenny, It’ s just a matter of following the chronology of events and communiques from both sides as they happened.

    Also, the thai govnmt always stayed vague on who were the terrorists, never heard at least that they said Red shirts had to be the terrorists. It’s a mainstay of thai politics, talk, talk, but without precisely pointing fingers or naming people, so you can retract yourself, and form new alliances between old enemies.

    By the way, does anyone know which party/government in Thailand has US-backing or which government in Thailand is favoured by the current US administration?
    Makes no difference. Thailand, whatever the govnmt, is always a close strategic ally of the States.

    Are you aware of how media control has grown under this government – everybody knows this
    you must be kidding, Jenny. It’s only 2 or 3 weeks ago, that the red TV channel was taken off the air (emergency decree, not policy). For 2 months, I heard the night guard in my condo listen all night long to the Reds speeches in BKK. Some “personalities” eventually had their internet sites blccked (Seh Daeng, Thaksin), but they are not “the media”.

    One of the main grievances against Thaksin (there were huge demonstrations against him in 2006. I was there, it was not just society ladies with 2000$ GUCCI bags, and fair-skinned middle-class thais) was his autocratic style, especially in matter of media control. Let’s agree It’s a dead-head between the 2 sides on that matter.

    Link on the Queen’s guard. My recollection was indeed vague, but still not “under” the Queen, no more than the KING’s entertainment complexes in Patpong are managed by the King of Thailand :-). Just a regalian label for both, with a little more honor to the Guard!


  • there are many people studying Thai politics who, based on years of study, will tell you that the whole subject is incredibly complex

    In that case, let’s stop saying it’s about poor farmers against rich elite. Glad you came on my side finally, Jenny ;-).

  • a civilian-mass audience

    …LAURA …bad Italian translation…
    Nope…he can’t be dead… I am sending some energy …out there
    I am an optimist after all…

    “BANGKOK – An Italian photographer was killed to Bangkok during the military campaign that led to the revenue of the red shirts. Fabio Polenghi 1, free throws, 45 years, was hit to the thorax and to the abdomen while it is found in the zone of Saladeng, about a kilometer from the center of the field of the opponents. To identify it was it a friend, from the images transmitted from the tv: in our short film compatriot came transported in hospital, put on a bulletproof jacket and a helmet that to a certain point was removed him and to this point the woman recognized it. The friend told that Polenghi had arrived in Thailand three months does, for account of an European magazine, and that in this make sentences three times from the Country for work was gone out. It had spoken him last night: “It told me that he was well and that he was all ok”, it added. Polenghi was single and lived in Milan.”

  • a civilian-mass audience


    and GLENN…I want to walk on DIAMANTINA road…
    I can smell it…:)))

    “The comic and the tragic lie inseparably close, like light and shadow.”
    Socrates (Ancient Greek Philosopher, 470 BC-399 BC)
    IMANTS…you are a young soul…BUT …you like it or not…in the end we are all the same…
    full of sheets:)))

    EVA…deal is deal…I can wait my BURN LADY

    BOBBY BLACK thank you for all your support…
    OXEN of the SUN…may HELIOS…be with you in your journey…

    Come on BURNIANS…what are you shooting…!!!???

  • Fabio Polenghi Photographer Shot, Killed in Thailand
    Wednesday, May 19, 2010

    BANGKOK, Thailand- A freelance Italian photographer, Fabio Polenghi, has been shot and killed while covering violence today in the Thai capital.



  • Thank’s for the translation Civi.
    There were no News in english, when I wrote. I never use automatic translator (may be I should do it).
    I’m afraid it’s confirmed. There is a video of the other photographers helping him

  • Rescue workers carry Fabio Polenghi, an Italian journalist who was shot during clashes (photo)


  • A Thai soldier handcuffs a Buddhist monk as another looks on after they were arrested ..



    BANGKOK, THAILAND – MAY 19: (EDITORS NOTE: GRAPHIC CONTENT) Thai security forces attempt to help a Thai soldier hit by a grenade on May 19, 2010 in Bangkok, Thailand. At least 5 people are reported to have died as government forces attempted to overrun barricades raised in and around the city centre by anti-government protestors. Red-shirt leaders have now surrendered, ending their blockade following a sixth day of violence, leaving the army in control and a night time curfew to be imposed.


  • Among the #Bangkok casualties today: Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi (killed), Dutch freelancer Michael Maas & Thai photog (wounded).
    about 1 hour ago via Power Twitter

  • a civilian-mass audience

    PANOS, you might be right…after all …
    for how long can someone …stay safe and blind…hmmm…

    I am going out to regroup…

    P.S THOMAS, get out of Athens…the soonest…tomorrow, there will be no center of the city…
    another big strike…oime…

  • Interview with Martin Parr – Conducted by Maarten Dings and Joachim Naudts, members of RE: for Extra, the magazine of the Fotomuseum of Antwerp, Belgium

    By Maarten Dings and Joachim Naudts

    On the 25th of October of last year, Magnum photographer Martin Parr was a guest at the Profiles event at the Antwerp FotoMuseum. He gave a reading and participated afterwards in a roundtable on the ‘Photographic Magazine as Medium.’ FotoMuseum extra Magazine had the chance to talk to him earlier that day.

    Just like his work as a photographer, Parr’s work as a curator and editor stands out thanks to his unconventional take on the medium. He cultivates his role as an outsider but does not shy away from commercial interests. In 2005 for instance, he made a series of photos for Sony Ericsson with the camera function of a cell phone, while recently surprising friend and foe by acting as a judge on Picture This, a show in search of photographic talent on British commercial tv station Channel 4.

    As a photographer, Martin Parr is more than happy to keep his distance from the pompous, academic approach to photography. But whereas his own visual work is quite often tongue in cheek, he provides a much more nuanced perspective as curator and editor. Martin Parr seems to be on a mission. He puts all his weight behind photography in general by making it more accessible to a wider public. According to Parr, it is in this light that his participation in Idols for Photographers should be viewed. He gave in because he maintains that “the photographer’s art isn’t valued in Britain in the same way it is abroad.” In Parr’s own words, photography should crawl out of its ghetto and explore the limits of the medium.

    Extra: As a documentary photographer, you don’t seem reluctant to get involved in the commercial scene.

    Martin Parr: No, not at all, photography is a commercial activity. Even high art photography wants to be commercial, because everyone wants to sell prints. I mean, the wealthiest photographer in the world is probably no longer fashion photographer Steven Meisel, but Andreas Gursky, who is at the top end of the art market. So it is interesting that the art market, financially often regarded as the poor cousin of commerce, is now way ahead of the commercial fashion industry. You can ask any photographer what he or she wants and they’ll probably answer: I want to do my own work, I want to sell my work as prints. Ultimately that is a commercial goal. So we’ll never be far away from the notion of commerce.

    Extra: But don’t you think you can react to this dominance of the economic in the arts by rejecting it?

    Martin Parr: I don’t see why you would want to reject it. Commerce makes things happen. One doesn’t want to be in the publicly subsidized ghetto, speaking to one percent of the population. Photography has the ability to be democratic, promiscuous and easy to digest. If you get out of the ghetto you have to get involved with the commercial end. With fashion people, advertising, posters, billboards. These are of course also ghettos. It’s just a bigger ghetto. You could say that visual culture is a ghetto, but that we’re surrounded by it. If you live in the western world nobody is exempt from that. Whether it’s advertising or family snapshots, we are surrounded by images. Everyone is a photographer now, remember. That’s the great thing about photography. Its audience should be growing all the time and as soon as people start using photography, why not apply some intelligence to it.

    Extra: A lot of these ‘image flows’ are clichés or, a word you often use, propaganda. Can you explain what you mean by that?

    Martin Parr: Most of the images we see are a form of propaganda because they have an agenda. Although all photography has an agenda, photography in the advertising and commercial world in particular is only good for selling an image. Or in case of a family snapshot, it is to sell the notion of the perfect family. I am not saying that independent photographers don’t have an agenda, because they certainly do: you can send two photographers to the same city and they would come up with entirely different pictures. One a very positive, one a very negative.

    Extra: So do you think it’s important that independent photographers go through this fashion or advertising area, because it could give them a different point of view?

    Martin Parr: No, I am not telling people what to do. But when I look around I feel it is all too safe and predictable. And part of the fun and enjoyment of photography is the ability to push ideas and boundaries. Most people are quite comfortable in their little niche, and do not play with boundaries. Good for them, but I think a photographic community should have more ambition. It’s our job, if you like, to make photography more accessible and to expand the audience. And the audience is there. Photo sharing sites on the Internet for instance have millions of subscribers who want to approach photography differently. Flickr is only two or three years old and, in the uk, two million people have subscribed and are discussing their work in an intelligent way. That’s quite an achievement. So, the potential audience – I don’t know how big Flickr is in Belgium for instance – is huge. What’s more, nowadays everyone has a camera on their phone, so everyone is a photographer. That is why photography is in such a healthy state, because more and more people are joining in and are becoming fascinated with photography.

    Extra: Do you consider these changes in photography today as the beginning of a new medium?

    Martin Parr: No, it’s all the same. Photography’s central role is to be the absolute medium of the day. It is fantastic that there is no longer any technical intimidation. When I first started learning how to take photographs, you had to spend the first six months figuring out what an f-stop was. Now you just go and take pictures. Nobody thinks about technical issues anymore because cameras or camera phones take care of that automatically. On the other hand, you still have the option of controlling every technical aspect. It’s the most accessible, democratic medium available in the world. This has to be celebrated, and we must continually remind photographers of this.

    Extra: Speaking of digitalization, behind the backdrop of the Internet and the way photography is currently undergoing such profound changes, it struck me that, at a time when the image is becoming increasingly nonmaterial, you focus on the photo book, i.e. the photo in its printed form. Is that a kind of reaction to this new, immaterial character of photography?

    Martin Parr: No, they are only slightly separate as today everyone can print a book with the help of new technologies. It is truly amazing: for forty Euros you can send your pictures to a company and they’ll send you back a book. Isn’t that fantastic? I love and collect photo books and I’ve been trying to compose their history, because their position has always been somewhat underrepresented in the history of photography while I think they are essential to its contemporary practice. With The Photobook: A History, I tried to redress that and I think the book succeeded to a certain extent. Although there are more books published now than ever before, the problem is that they tend to stay inside this photo ghetto. It is possible yet extremely difficult to find books that have a wider appeal, so in that regard it is very encouraging to see that Stephan Vanfleteren’s book Belgium has gained a wider audience. He has touched a nerve, and although he presents a very nostalgic view of Belgium that I don’t particularly like, it is great to see that his book is able to draw a crowd. I applaud him for making photography more accessible and it are these rare moments of triumph that show you that photography books need not indulge in high art. There is a slight contradiction in what I am saying here. I’m asking photography to get out of its ghetto, but at the same time I’m professing my love for the photo book, which is entrenched in that ghetto. But I am very happy to be a hypocrite (laughs).

    Extra: Which photo books do you consider to be your personal favourites then?

    Martin Parr: I would like to mention two books. To my mind, the most influential and radical photo book published in the last century was William Klein’s New York. Unlike Robert Frank’s equally influential The Americans, Klein succeeded in changing the way photographers created books. His radical approach to design, his ability to capture energy and dynamism in his photography, all the effects of his work rippled across the world; you could see it in Argentina, in Portugal, all the way to Japan. During the sixties and seventies, while Europe stuck to the conventions of the photo book – with two white pages and a picture on the right, such a hallow, respectfully beautiful format – Japan was throwing out those rules. Japanese photographers adopted Klein’s spirit and used it to change the way of presenting books entirely. Daido Moriyama’s Bye Bye Photography for example was as radical as Klein’s New York because he tried to tear up the rules of conventional photography. He threw away his negatives, he scratched them and made this energetic book, which took Klein’s idea one step further. So Bye Bye Photography is probably my favourite photo book. But we should always keep in mind how radical Klein’s book was in 1956, and how radical it still is today. It forever changed the way photographers make books.

    Extra: There is another way in which you seem to turn to the past. You have worked with image archives, like the Lotz ghetto album or the Ed van der Elsken archive, found images and traditional genres like the self-portrait in commercial studios. In other words, in this digital era you are focusing on the photographic tradition and its specificity.

    Martin Parr: I always look back to work from the past because I feel its contributions have been overlooked. By virtue of this platform I have, I feel it’s my duty to help promote neglected bodies of work. The history of photography is very subjective, and it is also, if you look at Beaumont Newhall for instance, very rigid. It just needs a bit of lightening up because certain people had a very narrow view on what photography should be. Today, we all acknowledge the contribution of things like vernacular photography which has become mainstream over the past twenty years. Previously, just like with colour photography for instance, it had just been sidelined. So we constantly have to reinvent and revise the past because there is no such thing as a ‘true’ history of photography. So when looking back at the past, I am just taking part in that ongoing process. Of course, my fascination with the past has as much to do with promoting upcoming photographers.

    Common Sense/Benidorm (price tag), 1997

    Extra: Do you think that your different positions in the field enrich each other?

    Martin Parr: Yes, they feed off each other. It used to anger me that a lot of photography curators are so lazy, and just wait for things to be handed out on a plate: they hardly travel, they aren’t restless, they aren’t on the lookout for the new. Then it struck me: why not curate myself? That’s how I started. Like all the other projects I’ve done I just think: well, if I don’t do it, no one will. The same holds for curating: I have to do it, because if I don’t, things will not get a platform or receive the oxygen they need.

    Extra: So you see curating also as a way of communicating?

    Martin Parr: Yes, it’s like filling a gap. You look at what’s going on and you suddenly realize it is insane that this or that has received no attention. For example, I did a show this summer called Colour Before Color for a New York gallery, with ‘colour,’ in the British, hence European spelling, and ‘color,’ reflecting the us spelling. The exhibition examined European colour practice during the seventies, which had been largely ignored. The history of photography always taught us that American photographers such as William Eggleston, Stephen Shore and their generation pioneered colour photography. So my theory was simply to look at things in Europe and to focus on six European photographers who were also working in colour during the seventies. But because they worked in isolation and had no institutional support, they were largely ignored. So I formulated a counter argument to what is now accepted as received truth.

    Of course I am not trivializing the developments in America during the seventies with the MOMA show and William Eggleston’s efforts, but this is not the full story. It’s much more complicated than that. So part of my idea behind this is to single out anomalies and make a small contribution in correcting them.

    Extra: You will also be curating a show at the New York Photo Festival. Can you tell us a bit more about it?

    Martin Parr: The exhibition is entitled New Typologies. The working title was ConDoc, which stands for ‘Conceptual Documentary.’ To me, it seems to be one of the emerging genres. Some of it is typology, some is not. We live in a chaotic world and the rigour of the analysis that conceptual documentary brings can help make sense of the chaos of the modern world.

    Extra: Like Hilla and Bernd Becher’s work for example?

    Martin Parr: Yes, of course. They have been very influential in steering European photography more towards this dry way of looking, which seems entirely appropriate.
    So we have to give them credit for starting out on this path.

    Extra: Lately you’ve been travelling to Latin America. Judging from your Magnum blog, you seem very enthusiastic about photography over there. Why is that?

    Martin Parr: I actually just came back from the Latin American Photo Forum where I saw lots of books and magazines. Surprisingly, a country like Brazil has a very healthy publishing program since there is this law stipulating that companies must reserve five percent of their profits to endorse cultural projects. This money mostly goes towards the publication of books, but the downside is that they tend to incorporate safe images and ideas. If you have a project in black and white focusing on indigenous Brazil, you will have no trouble getting subsidized. However, if you have a more contemporary project, dealing with, let’s say, Saõ Paulo, that would be seen as too controversial. Big corporations tend to avoid such projects, so what you end up with is a publishing policy that it too nostalgic; Brazilian photography books give this impression. The country where things are really happening is Argentina, which has combined a European sensibility with this sort of inherent Latin craziness. There is some very interesting work coming out of Argentina at the moment.

  • Oi! Back Door what is the debt count up to ……… no stats

  • “The People of Greece Are Fighting for the Whole of Europe”:

  • or here.. on oil, its future, our future..

  • PANOS,

    Heard a cool piece on the radio (NPR) the other day about the rap scene in Haiti and the earthquake. Talking about impromptu parties at street corners amongst the rubble with sound systems set up and people dancing. Also rappers writing new songs about the earthquake and Haiti’s ill fortune (and some of their colleagues dead). Thought of you. I searched the NPR site but couldn’t find it.

    Hope you are well,


  • TO ALL-

    Someone may have shared this before already but just in case, our friend Lance is having an exhibit about “Thirst for grit” in Austin… Just got an email…Very cool! Congrats Lance! Wish I could be there.




  • Panos- Panoski…. talk more & clearly :):):):) Listening !

  • Charles :)
    yes.. Hip Hop to its real-est…
    To the fullest.. Not about DB7s and ice…

  • Big hug Kat!
    Long time no see;)

  • Big hug back Panos ! Longest time no see !!!

  • Martin Parr…. Panos….. Thanks!

  • http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/SanFrancisco#5389997453787067778

    Panos, the guy on the right looks like you, maybe, in 20 some years! No kidding…. Maybe you came back in time, and did not even recognize yourself, ahahah….

  • Ha ha Katharina good night… It was fun talking to you ( for the last 5 hours );)

  • Martin Parr:

    It is fantastic that there is no longer any technical intimidation. When I first started learning how to take photographs, you had to spend the first six months figuring out what an f-stop was. Now you just go and take pictures. Nobody thinks about technical issues anymore because cameras or camera phones take care of that automatically. On the other hand, you still have the option of controlling every technical aspect. It’s the most accessible, democratic medium available in the world. This has to be celebrated, and we must continually remind photographers of this.
    Amazing!..viva Parr

  • In other words back in the day the “photographer” was the guy that was able to use a camera or do prints in the mysterious intimidating dark room…
    Now the “photographer” is that guy thay can produce Great pictures…without having an alchemists or chemists licence…

  • …..Like a writer!

  • Hey PANOS,

    How can we miss you, if you won’t go away?

  • Sorry to interrupt but please see this (it is in French, but i hope that most here speak many languages)
    PLEASE WATCH IT and take notice…very very important
    thank you

  • ok , i found it SUBTITILED…PLZ WATCH and see some truths
    Daniel Cohn-Bendit (english subtitles)

  • So you’re suggesting Greece doesn’t need to spend 10’s of billions of Euros to protect itself from foreign invaders? Do you know nothing of history. The Mongols could be sweeping across the steppes any day now. They’ve done it before. What’s to guarantee they won’t do it again? Submarines, that’s what.

  • And you know, it’s the same here. The U.S. spends more money on defense than the rest of the world combined, yet we’re still not safe. As long as there is a scenario, no matter how farfetched, we can never spend too much for weapons and armies. Greece, for example, once ruled the ancient world with brutal expansionism. How can we spend money on trifles such as health care, education and infrastructure when there might be another Alexander the Great plotting our demise from the deepest reaches of Macedonia?

  • Just sayin. BTW, did you see my Laboratories slideshow? It’s kind of a joke, but not entirely. What’s wrong with a little optimism in the world some day? It’s not all dead guys in the streets around here. Sometimes the dead are still breathing.


    man you are rockin…keep going….

  • Michael
    Thankyou for the breath of air.

    I must live a sheltered life, I’ve never seen a dead guy on the street.

  • In the midst of a continuing “arms race” Michael. What hope is there?

  • a civilian-mass audience

    the R-EVOLUTION has started …

    “The most important kind of freedom is to be what you really are. You trade in your reality for a role. You trade in your sense for an act. You give up your ability to feel, and in exchange, put on a mask. There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on and individual level. It’s got to happen inside first. You can take away a man’s political freedom and you won’t hurt him- unless you take away his freedom to feel. That can destroy him. That kind of freedom can’t be granted. Nobody can win it for you.”

    Jim Morrison

    PANO…let’s keep rolling…

  • let the spirit live CIVI……

  • jenny lynn walker

    CHARLESb: I’d so love to see that in photographs – the rap scene in Haiti amongst the rubble. Triumph over adversity!!!

    MICHAELw: There are enemies everywhere you look when you’re intent on controlling the world and when you’re used to seeing enemies everywhere, no doubt you start inventing them as well – plus a large military machine helps keep people employed (and dying if you’re on the receiving end of it).

  • So you’re suggesting Greece doesn’t need to spend 10’s of billions of Euros to protect itself from foreign invaders?
    :)..he he..you are correct on this one..the paradox is that the european union pretends it is “united” but they dont guarantee their very own borders..in other words greek borders is greece’s problem to guard..Imagine if washington only sells weapons to california and texas telling them its their problem the security of the borders…Germany and France sell super expensive weapons to greece, they profit and then complain why the country gets bankrupt…80000 refugees from africa, afghanistan etc arrive in greece yearly but europe just watches..and sell..sell..sell…not very considerate or “united” europe im afraid…If they want a real, strong United States of Europe then they also responsible for protecting the borders not just the unlucky one that happened(geographically) to be located at the gate of asia and africa..
    arghh..games, games, games…

  • In the midst of a continuing “arms race” Michael. What hope is there?

    You’re asking me? I don’t know. My modus operandi has been to recognize and enjoy the great fortune of having been born in this time and place, hopefully do well by my family, and at worst do as little harm as possible to others. I greatly admire people those who take so much more responsibility, but alas, I am not one of them. When it goes beyond helping an individual right in front of me, I’m afraid it takes more hope than I can muster.

    Yes Gordon, Canada’s a great place, or I should say full of great places. The dead guy in the street thing kinda turned into a metaphor over the past week or so (I doubt I see more than one or two a week, and normally they’re still breathing). I see such extremes of happiness and misery in my daily life, and it’s often hard to tell, say by a photograph, who is experiencing which. It can be a bit disconcerting. Then reading Charles Bowden on top of that and following this whole Thailand/Greece thread, and being at least somewhat aware of what’s happening politically, what’s not to find black humor in?

  • People, listen up. LISTEN UP!

    I just received my copy of Anton’s 893 MAGAZINE and it’s sumptuously delicious and totally groovy. The dude is really making some stunning work and this magazine is a masterstroke.

    I strongly urge everyone to get a copy. It’ll enhance your library no end.


  • Michael Webster,

    Laboratories…. nice slide show, well done!

  • As bad as the whole arm shenanigan looks, Panos, Greece is not bankrupt because it is buying arms.

    And as long as France sells arms, it will not get bankrupt! :-)))


    COHN-BENDIT 2012. DANNY LE ROUGE FOR PRESIDENT! (uh, let me think….)


  • PAUL!
    thanks for the words mate…. Thouroughly glad you like it!!!
    In Kabukicho now, the red light district in central Tokyo, middle of the night… In a little “weekly mansion” tiny room now, will be shooting here for a solid week… I’ll fear I’ll be wreck very quickly as shoots typically start at 1am and last to 6-7 am… and now I’m attempting to try this for a full week straight… why do I always make these impossible plans??? :-)
    wish me luck…

  • Anton, in such a week, or one day as you describe actually, can you tell us how many pictures you take, roughly?

  • Anton

    Your magazine looks great! what a nice way of promoting a project your working on. I love the way you shoot in low light. nice job, good luck.


  • hey Herve!

    it kind of depends on the moment, but of course you know…. I had 2,5 weeks go by with heavy negotiations and literally only 100 exposures and none of them satisfactory.

    But today was my first fruitful day and I did I think 360 exposures in a timeframe of a 5 hour shoot (the monthly meeting of the family, and surroundings). I think i have probably one keeper in that batch. in those 5 hours I “worked the scene” in about 5 scenes that happened before me (if memory serves me right), and then a dozen or so loose moments. I think usually I average a bit more exposures when further on.

    During working and shooting I take extreme care of the “social side”, interacting as much as possible with all the relevant people in as much as possible the right way, reading and keeping track of body language of several people at once, and trying to be in the right places on the street and in the rooms…. and at the same time laying foundations or making handshake appointments for future shoots, trying to confirm, or at minimum not to jeopardize, all the hard work my brother (and our fixer) does behind the scenes continuously tirelessly negotiating access into deeper and deeper, making as much as possible sure there will in fact be a next time.

    I find especially this last thing an extremely hard thing to do, because i have to do it while shooting, and after a day of shooting is done I literally crash physically and mentally with a bad headache. every time again.

    Obviously I wish I had a higher ratio… Or that I even could shoot simple more exposures… but I’m learning to accept this one I guess… and I work hard on my technical skills, to at least eliminate that as a possible factor as well… even though I feel I still have a long way to go gaining complete control over my camera/lens, feeling that I’m very slowly gaining control over my vision, is what makes me get up in the morning: it’s the most amazing thing to, through hard work, be given the opportunity “to carve my way” visually, develop further and hopefully grow to a higher level…

    2.20am here… need rest… weary head… hope I’ve answered your question…


  • MICHAEL Re your quote, “Greece, for example, once ruled the ancient world with brutal expansionism” —

    There is an excellent book, recently published, called “Lords of the Sea: The Epic Story of the Athenian Navy and the Birth of Democracy,” in which John R. Hale chronicles the Athenians’ decision in 483 BC to build a people’s navy — with all ranks of society pulling oars in a vast fleet of triremes — to spread democracy throughout the known world as a bulwark against Persian conquest. At the time, democracy was a radical idea. The notion that people other than noble families and soldiers should determine how they are governed was a dangerous concept, and having individual rights as citizens or allies of Athens turned power structures upside down.

    Athens had unparalleled success as the dominant military and politically progressive force on the plant, creating a Golden Age of art, poetry, architecture, sculpture, drama, historical scholarship, philosophy, and theory of government. But democracy gave way to oligarchy, which ceded to tyranny, and Athens was sacked by Sparta. Of course, Athens fought continual wars during its very brief (only 40 years or so) Golden Age.

    But the question here is the relationship between democracy and militarism (which is different from expansion or conquest).

  • So telling: hundreds of PJs in Bangkok, hundreds of twits, opinions, reports, millions of pictures, and not one essay, not one picture either of the region from where Red Shirts came from, and life in the villages.

    Reds! it’s not just the Bangkok elites who do not care about you, it’s the whole freaking world!

    I am no PJ, but I will concoct something (remember, no talent for photography, only for life) and BURN will be, again, the only place, where you saw it!

    Give me 48 hours. still on thai time here!!!!

    PS:I promise there will be no pictures of smiling children…. :-)

  • Hey Valery,

    Was just heading off to bed when I saw your comment… thanks! Glad you like the magazine…


  • http://web.incisive-events.com/ptg/2010/05/bjp-international-photography-award/index.html

    The British Journal of Photography’s International Photography Award is now open for submissions! Deadline is Sept. 10, 2010. Visit the website for details.

  • HERVE…

    good…do it..remember, you do not have to have pictures of EVERYTHING….nor feel that you have to tell the WHOLE story…simply A story…..this could be very very interesting if you can do this…and remember now you will also receive a bit of compensation from Burn if it works out well….6-10 pictures would be more than enough…or even one really powerful….let’s see what you can do with these important developments in Thailand…your territory…

    cheers, david

  • David did you get the book?

  • David, thanks for the good words, I appreciate the encouragement from you, and I sure don’t have pictures of everything, it will only be…. Something! :-)))

  • Panos,

    happy birthday to you. I wish you all the best and have always the light on your side.
    Good luck.
    Can we sing now?

  • After reading Herve’s review of Anton’s 893 magazine just imagine my excitement when I had a Lulu package waiting for me at home. Herve as well as you described this, you still did not do it justice. This magazine is simply amazing it has a feel and a tone that flows throughout the book. Burnians we need to come together and support Anton on this project. Everyone needs to purchase this magazine for your library, trust me you wont be disappointed and I truly think the 893 in the title is what it will be worth in a few short years. Folks this as close as we are likely to come to flashing back to 1966 and getting a copy of “tell it like it is” by some young up and coming photographer.

  • After reading Herve’s review of Anton’s 893 magazine
    ?!?!?….. I’d like to read it too, where can I find it? :-)))

  • Panos, I hope you have a good one, here’s my virtual gift to you, my friend. It did not happen this time, but still waiting for you…. in Thailand! ;-)

  • Herve, My apologies that was Paul Treacy that was commenting on Antons work. Sorry for the confusion.

  • No need to apologize, Kurt. I have opened you site, enjoying the slideshows. Just watched Barbershop blues and County Fair,..

  • Kurt

    just woke up to your comment here in Tokyo… sun shining bright, time for a good coffee and getting some work done.



  • Herve, thanks, One of the joys about burn is we not only get to read the comments, we can usually just click on a name and get a look at where someones photography is coming from. It is the very first thing I do when viewing someones work or if their comet sparks my interest. By the way I have been following your work since Road Trips.

  • Folks –
    Burn is being spam attacked. Not a big deal (read “do not panic”) on its own but I am forced to deleting all messages that are in the moderation queue in bulk. I can’t imagine me going through all 300+ to fish out the real ones.

    Please forgive if your comment in moderation disappears.


  • crisis averted. i shot them bad servers.
    you can all start spamming now.

  • Birthday? Panos? Damn… sorry I missed it! Happy birthday you old fucker! ;^}

    Hi Haik. Hi everyone. Civi! What not to love?

    Peace. Out.


  • You did more than answer my question, Anton, thanks for expanding on all the work that happens just to get the situation right (in all aspects) and yet having to master the technical side for that elusive shot.

    On my side, and the little self-assignment I gave myself (where do the Red Shirts of Thailand come from?), this is worse than I thought! Most of what I have is rather DOA as photography goes, still I will go ahead and “concoct”, just as planned.

  • IMANTS….

    i have the book…will let you know where i go and when i go…..

  • PANOS…

    birthday boy?? very Happy Birthday to you malaka….please let me know your plan for new york….

  • KURT…

    very well put and true…Anton’s 893 will be the first in a series of a Burn endorsed or published gallery of books…others will follow….i remember Gene Richards saying years ago that all photographers should buy each others books…good idea…if i am going to go broke it will be by overspending on books by great photographers….just bought 893….richer for it…

    cheers, david

  • David; Ironically; I just had a splurge and a Eugene Richards book was in my letterbox today! Only the small Phaidon one though, amazing work!

  • a civilian-mass audience


    The Beautifull Cheyenne Tribe…for you …just to remember your roadtrips…
    I know you are American BUT you are Greek too…

    Να ζησεις να τα εκατοστησεις
    με μια καμερα στο χερι
    να γλεντας και να τα πινεις
    και τον κοσμο να γυριζεις
    την αληθεια να μυριζεις
    και στο BURN να μας τα δειχνεις
    μην αλλαξεις, μην λυγισεις
    την αληθεια να μας δειξεις…
    αχ, κουραστηκα, βρε πια,
    λογια να βρω γιορτινα…
    αντε VIVA μαλακα
    και στα δικα μας !!!

    P.S I just wished him Happy Birthay …etcetera,etcetera…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    you shouldn’t say malaka…apapa,apapa…
    I will explain …when I see you…I hope not very soon…you better avoid traveling East…
    BUT what do I know …I am just a civilian…:)))

    all this time…VIVA !!!

    where have you beennnnnnnnnn!!!

    THOMAS…come on… sing…we can start the party…

    I am the happiest civilian…hmmm…not,yet…KATIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE…

    P.S extremely busy days for me…hiiiii…I know …Greeks work too:)))

    I LOVE YOU ALLLLL…I will be back …with baklava and tourta


    ok, i will not use that word again…my apology…Panos himself taught me that word as an expression of some kind of friendship and using it often with me, but i must admit i did not know what it meant exactly…i am now assuming some kind of vulgarity that is often used in many languages among friends (usually male) in spoken dialogue….so sorry…honest mistake….

    cheers, david

  • DAH
    go ahead don’t think Panos will be offended (as long as you don’t use this with anyone)

    Happy Birthday Panos!

  • Panos,
    the happiest birthday to you!!!
    Hope you had a great time – sorry for being late. Just dropped in.

    anybody in NY during the 8.-10. of June? Audrey and I will be in town during those days – Audrey will arrive a day earlier even, on the 7th. Anyone in town wants to meet for a nice dinner somewhere – or picknick at the riverside?? or …

    We will be going to the HBC exhibition in the MoMA on either the 9th or 10th. Will get tickets online. Audrey is a good researcher. If anybody wants to join in, drop me a line at info(at)lassal.de and we can get together.
    Hope to meet some of you.

  • a civilian-mass audience

    oime DAH…there is no honest mistake…

    you got busted…BUT…
    I have to give you credit…
    your humor is inconceivable..

    yes, what not to love…malakes(plural)…:)))

  • a civilian-mass audience

    the bar has been raised…
    the whole Universe is watching…hiiiii

    what’s on the menu…roasted garlic and sausages…
    ouzo and beer and one gigantic spiff as PETER suggested…

    Keep the party rolling…oime…what’s my name…

  • All,

    I’ll be in Bukarest 15th/16th of June. I’ll arrive on 14th in the afternoon. i.e. I have time to meet 14th in the evening or on the 15th in the evening. Anyone in Bukarest during this time?

  • Thomas,

    ask Devin and/or Aga.
    Maybe they are there.

    Und hat es mit dem deutschen Treffen jetzt eigentlich noch geklappt, bevor Dominik in die USA ist?
    Wir sind alle ein wenig unkoordiniert, nicht? Lass uns in NY treffen :) Wahrscheinlich klappt das eher. Ich LIEBE Miles&More!

  • Lassal,
    yes I did – thanks. Maybe I’ll meet Davin and Aga there.

    Miles & More .. yes, I’d love it, too – but my employer gets them *sigh*

    New York is currently very far away, my son starts studying this year.

    Deutsches Treffen… ich dachte Dominik ist/war schon in den USA? … Ich glaube, nicht nur mein Bein war gebrochen … sollten wir nochmal angehen… REIMAR? … DOMINIK? ..

  • Lassal and Audrey,
    Can’t you stay until the 12?
    May be I’m going on the 10th. I’ll know in two weeks :))

  • Laura,

    No, so sorry, we will leave NY from june 11 and 13, but we will be back june 13 before 7pm, maybe we could meet again :))))

  • Laura, I mean maybe we could meet the june 13 for a dinner ? the 14 return in France for me

  • Thomas,
    Dominik is still in the US. I assumed you three have met before he left.
    Hope your foot is ok again. No more nails and screws??

  • Lassal,

    screws and metal and stuff gets out in January, approx. I defined the ankle as healed and ignore everything else :) Life has to go on, and preserving or treating with care, did not help. Using as usual has the best development.

    No, unfortunately we did not meet before Dominik left to the US.
    The “German” meeting has to be somewhat later, then. When will you be back?


    i KNOW Panos not offended..or me either…he taught me the word….Panos called me that all the time when we out having a beer or whatever when i was in California…..again, a between friends only word i am sure….in English we have many potentially offensive words that when used in an among friends only casual chat are meant as some kind of verbal symbol of “we are buddies”….when i travel and am unfamiliar with the local language, the first words people want to teach me are always “bad words”…they love to laugh hearing you say them…i think this was the case when Panos taught me the never to be spoken or written again BAD WORD….

    cheers, david

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Malaka= usually used as a friendly greeting…
    hiiiiiiiiiiiii…you are all amazing… where is the birthday boy???
    and why everyone is going to NY??? what am I missing???

    Shall I follow MARCIN’S wave??? are we going west or east…???

    No need to reply…I just ate too much…

  • ALL…
    big fat thank you for b-day burn and facebook wishes …
    this will be very quick coz im dead tired..i wasnt here(home) for the last (a little longer than 2 days and one night)couple days…
    Instead of staying around family and celebrate birthday etc i chose to do something “stupid”…I jumped on a 18 (or 12 wheel truck), followed closely the truck driver and went through some sick shit…
    To be very honest i thought it would be a boring trip…I cant imagine how boring can be to sit in a huge truck for hours, days, months , no healthy sleep, nothing healthy to eat, no healthy thoughts..
    no cleanliness, mosquitoes biting you..man its sickening…but there must be “something” that make truckers proud of what they do..there must be something there except from the money..im curious ..i needed to know…and i wanted to challenge myself photographically…i need to turn the answers to my questions into photos..this is Burn after all and this is what i like doing..my Therapy..blah blah
    but back in my experience…im dead tired tonight and i wanna talk with pictures anyways coz talk is cheap..
    Soooooooooo, couple days ago, i was sitting desperate in my room (not really my room but temporary shelter somewhere in grecolandia-my fathers house to be specific-im not in a psychiatric clinic yet , although im heading there if i dont return soon “home” in the US..So while i was thinking that one more birthday of mine is coming up and i will probably have to spend it around my extra super neurotic and controlling mother, the phone rings…
    It was Pavlos! but who the heck is Pavlos? Well, meet Pavlos..He is a really cool guy, the sweetest heart, maybe not the most intellectual guy but i tell u this very seriously..Pavlos is probably one of the sweetest and more innocent people of this earth..never thinks of himself first..always a giver,…His job is a truck driver..He loves this job..He is a Free Spirit…but not a lucky “free spirit”..
    But lets leave the details for later…
    So Pavlos tells me on the phone…”Listen, im leaving on 48 hours non stop intense trip around greece..we will eat , sleep ,drink eat on the truck..Come with me…JOIN ME…you will get exhausted but you cant miss the tour de Grece …Im leaving in 10 minutes..Look outside the window..Thats the truck..all u need is a blanket..are u coming? yes or no? i have to leave in 10′”…
    I grabbed the camera bag and the blanket..YES i replied, wait for me…Well to make the long story short the trip didnt go well..EVERYTHING and ANYTHING that could go wrong did go wrong…I will tell you only one thing to give the idea…We just came back home, dead tired and exhausted, tired as hell but with NO TRUCK..yes, we hitch hiked, begged ,cried, we even begged an Orthodox Priest for help and of course HE, the representative of God, DENIED..yes the priest told us straight in our face, after he heard our story: “sorry i have some stuff in my back seat, cant give u a ride or money, bye”…and sped away…
    Yes u heard me well..so please stay tuned..i will tell u everything start from tomorrow about the story accompanied with pictures.. not only the exciting but also the mundane…otherwise make no sense..right?

    Anyway, 3:30am here, pitch dark, it was raining for the last two days around here too so to make my canvas converses unbearable to wear ..(when it rains it pours right? indeed)…I want to answer every email and Facebook mail for all the wishes..THANK YOU AGAIN, and i will personally reply to all my friends (isnt facebook great though? that reminds us about upcoming friend’s birthdays so noone gets missed or left out???-great invention:)
    ok..good night all..i will read all emails first thing tomorrow and work on my TRUCK DRIVER photos but before i go to sleep..you know i have to check the latest Essay here..
    one love

  • OHHHHHHHHHHH that was a great birthday present just came through Winephoto through (facebook mail),,,,,,,…….im excited….I see some burnians exhibiting here too:))))

    WINEPHOTO 2010

    “At Home Impressions of Domestic Conviviality”

    1st prize EMILY SCHIFFER, USA

    Special Award given by journalist’s Jury CARLO GIANFERRO, ITALY

    Also in the exhibit

    2010 edition had 340 partecipants, from 44 countries and has received 3207 pictures

    The 2010 theme, “Impressions of Domestic Conviviality” is meant to embrace “Conviviality” in its broadest sense. Photographers should interpret “Conviviality” — from the Latin, cum vivere, meaning living together or living with — in the most creative way. “Domestic,” obviously, relates to home.
    So seventh edition theme, “At Home: Impression of Domestic Conviviality”, will be windows into how the world lives.

    The panel of JUDGES was composed of:

    David Alan Harvey (photographer, Magnum Agency),
    Kent Kobersteen (former Director of Photography of National Geographic Magazine),
    Antonin Kratochvil (VII agency),
    Alex Majoli (photographer, Magnum Agency),
    Paolo Pellegrin (photographer, Magnum Agency),
    Barbara Stauss (photo editor, Mare Magazine). The special mention (Menzione Speciale Food Writers) was by journalists Paolo Marchi and Regina Schrambling and Shirley Wu Yan.

  • Congratulations Panos! I am happy with you!

  • Thomas Bregulla (double thanks) ,Herve, Michael Kircher, DAH, Civi, Imants;), Stelios, Lassal, Marcin …thank you..and let me move to Facebook for more…:)

  • a civilian-mass audience

    BRAVO…BRAVO…BRAVO..MY BURNIANS…you are on the roll !!!

    2010 edition had 340 partecipants, from 44 countries and has received 3207 pictures
    visual stimulation …and wine…
    can a civilian attend the exhibit???

  • a civilian-mass audience

    keep the energy UP…
    Fight, F…k,Forget the Fear…
    you are ALL Unique and Special…

    P.S life is Full of F’s …hihiii…
    VIVA Winephoto…
    this is my calling…oime…hiiiiiihooooooooooo

  • a civilian-mass audience

    who am I??? you are a BURNIAN, a photophilosopher….

    how is the project???

    KATIE FONSECA…we need update…LOVE

    VIVEK are you ok???

    I had a feeling…don’t travel East…oime…

    I LOVE YOU ALLLLLL…i gave away two chickens…I am down to 12…

  • CIVI … alive and trying to kick …104 degrees in mumbai …

  • a civilian-mass audience

    thanks VIVEK for the check in…104…I am coming over!!!

    I will be back…

  • Got to let it out… FFFFIUUUUUCCCKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    All the pictures I had edited for my little “essay” on the Issan region were on a USB key, and all the data has disappeared from that key. I have no idea how/why, first time such stuff happens to me.

    All that work to do again (and the pix are not even that good!)….

    Karma? Waht did I do? talk thai politics? Yeah, that’s it, most likely….

    Fuck de fuck de fuck de fuck…………..

  • Herve, you saw it on USB and then it was gone? the key here is that if you saw it once, we can see it again.

  • Yes Audrey, may be. I would like! I still don’t know.
    Panos and Rafal and the other: Congratulation!!! In Veneto you’ll have good wine too :)))

  • Hey Burnians all. After days of rain, catching photos of flowers and weird experience with a horse, I suddenly decided to go to the Gulf Coast to help with the cleanup. I loaded the car with Dawn Dishwashing Soap (best thing to take oil off of birds), Pepto Bismol (??), bandages, and old sheets and towels and took off. On the road I listened to the news and heard that the first oil (that I could get to) was Grand Isle, Louisiana. After two days of traveling in the worst weather ever (tornados everywhere–behind me, ahead of me, over the top of me) I made it to Grand Isle.

    For 36 hours I tried to connect with someone who would allow me to volunteer to no avail. Could not even give the supplies to anyone. Closed doors and no one at home. Took off this afternoon in disgust and headed north again. After a few hours of doubting the reason for my existence, getting lost and starving to death I got off of at the Ponchatoula, Louisiana exit. I spotted Paul’s Cafe and pulled in.

    Paul, the owner, pulls up a chair and starts talking to me and I told him my story. He immediately gets on the phone (after bringing me extra chicken and banana pudding) and calls a woman who calls another woman. Long story short I was able to put the supplies in the hands of a group that will truly appreciate and use them. What a relief.

    Then I read Panos’ telling of the truck driving tale. Seems we were on the same road trip for a while.

    So although I was not able to help in the cleanup (need special training, etc.) supplies that I was compelled to purchase and drive two days to deliver are now in the hands of those that will use them. No photos to speak up except a few of the oil on the beach. Really disgusting mess.

    The other part of this experience is I have once again come to the conclusion that government is really whacked out.

  • civi :ø)

    present and correct..
    moving for4ward..
    all that jazz..

    how you doing, 2 chickens down as you are?
    less eggs for breakfast and you’ll soon make up the numbers..

  • jenny lynn walker

    DAH/HERVE/ALL: I just posted an article here from Newsweek about Shinawatra being a Democrat but it has gone missing. This is the intro:
    “Former Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra was thought to be a populist demagogue. Actually, he was the high-water mark for Thai democracy.”

    I will post it again now. I was happy to read one or two of the comments which also showed how the Red Shirt protest really is a ‘Robin Hood’ effort to help reduce inequalty in Thailand.

    I already posted this once and will continue all day if it continues to go missing again and again:



  • TO ALL-

    Some have been asking me what I was up to with my “Macadam Riders” project. This project has really only started but I did a quick Burn book with some of the photographs I have taken so far. It is way premature to make a book (I have only been to 2 or 3 locations) but the main objective is to have it with me when I plan to go to different skateparks over the summer… Useful to show around and gain confidence when I will have little time to build trust and will inevitably be asked why I want to take pictures of the kids….


    Especially given early, do not hesitate to tell me what you think….


    as always, will be interested to get your thoughts as well as I shape this new project…



  • Eric, i loved the design (square format) on some pages…i loved the skies…You are a true master of color too…The story is a good start…I know its not easy to go closer in those kids lives …but its something like i that i would like to see…the stories, the lives of couple of Insiders and for this to happen u gotta be one of them..start skating too, smoke with them etc..and that is not easy if not impossible..

  • I like it Eric. Give the kids a copy; that could go a long way to get in as Panos says. Good work.

  • I’d like to second DAH ‘s post on ” closing time “…Jenny & Herve…would you have any pictures to show if you are based in BKK or are long -time visitors ?

  • JENNY…

    you frequently suggest that your comments “go missing” ..i wonder what is happening..certainly nothing at this end….i just looked “inside” and nothing is being held in pending….

  • JENNY…

    something is weird about whatever is going on with you and comments..for example, i see your comment here obviously, yet it is not listed as a recent comment under “recent comments” under the current dialogue…hmmmm, i cannot figure this out…i am sure Anton can…

    however, i do look forward to seeing your pictures from BKK….

    cheers, david

  • ERIC…

    i just did a very quick flip through your Macadam Riders…you are ALWAYS on it…nice work…i might have suggested a couple of sequence changes, but those are minor…is this something you are still shooting? if so, i would definitely go for either recorded live sound and/or video as well…this subject really lends itself to multi-media…and one of the kids talking about it, plus the ambient sound, plus the motion could really put it over the top….the other thing you might want to think about is to now forget the overall scene…you got it…either go extreme close , as you did in some, or way way back to give us context….get totally crazy….loose….particularly on this subject…your mastery of the color and the light is right on as usual….oh yes, you have better cover shots in there than the one you chose i think….back to you later with a few other points, but basically very very nice….you outproduce and outshoot many a pro photog….

    cheers, david

  • Hi Eric,

    Nice idea to put into book form as you work on it. Cool project. I have been thinking recently of doing the same with my “Brooklyn” project. I just took a photo of black skateboarders in Brooklyn
    http://www.valeryrizzo.com/gallery.html?folio=Portfolio&gallery=Brooklyn (unfortunately the link cant be directed to that particular image, its image 33 if interested)

    DAH…..I would love to take a photography book making workshop, editing, printing etc., Is that something you do David? Powerhouse had one but it was more about just editing.
    Also I would also love some feedback from you about how my project is going, some advice and what you think :-)) Also you had mentioned something about adding something to the submission page for works in progress or ideas for projects??



    working with photographers on their book projects is one of the main things i do, although i can only take on around 4 books per year …since you are in new york, let’s make sure we meet the next time i am in town…next time will be mid june…yes, we must still put up the idea heading on Burn…as soon as we finish EPF and BURN 01, then we will have time to get this going…in the meantime, you can always run ideas by me on email…be patient please because sometimes i am overwhelmed with email….

    cheers, david

  • DAVID,

    Thanks for your encouragement. I am most definetely still shooting this subject!!! I actually feel I have just started really and I have time to build on it. I have tried to identify some of the great skateparks and communities around few large towns around Europe and little by little, I will try to go, spend some time when possible and add to this initial work. As my “day work” keeps me crazy busy since back, things are not progressing as quickly as I would like but on the other hand, there is no rush… I will certainly take on your suggestion of adding sound/video… and, somehow, I was expecting your push to get totally crazy and loose :):):):)


    Thanks for the suggestions…. I need you Panos to come to Brussels and smoke with me and these kids :):):)


    I think I told you this before but I love your work and look forward to the day you put a book together.



  • ERIC
    your book looks great!!!
    your colors are so rich…
    what gives?
    Is it how you sync your flash?
    I don’t normally get into tech talk,
    but how do you get that richness?
    in all your work,
    your color has such a punch…
    i love it….

  • David…

    That sounds good, to meet up next time when your in town, providing you have the time, I entirely understand and respect what a busy schedule you have. I will try emailing you soon. Thanks.


    No I did not know, but that is nice and encouraging since I also love your work.


  • Lucky Jenny. I wish I could not see my swearing outburt yesterday! :-)

  • Kh, back in California. if you remember, I am not based in Bangkok, love the place though. While all this was happening, I spent times in temples, shooting novices during their lent season, that time when many boys don the “yellow” robe, and learn Pali texts about Buddhism.

    It reminds me of HCB’s words about Ansel Adams: “the world is falling apart around us and Adams is shooting mountains!”…

  • .. and DAH is finding a home for kittens.. now where’s Civi when you need one “what’s not to love”?

  • a civilian-mass audience

    LEE the artist…
    what a soul…THANK YOU…
    I dream almost every night…that I help the world…
    hmmm…in the morning …I find myself in the same room …with my chickens
    BUT if I take small steps …I can do good…I will find the way
    cause I am an optimist…

    …BURN colored riders…!!!

    HERVE…HAIK can do magic…he fixed my computer…
    he is DA MAN!!!

    DAVIDB…I hear you…focus mate,focus…BUT you are better when you are loose…IMO:)))

    kittens gone…chickens gone…life is going on…

  • a civilian-mass audience


    EVA is another great soul…
    she is a true spirit…
    and again…oime

    from my civilian heart…to your heart…keep your dreams rolling and keep the trees growing

  • a civilian-mass audience

    ohhhh…I had a dream that BURN got a SPONSOR…hmmm…

    ok,I need another round of white water…
    OPA and VIVA…

  • Civi, stop that..

    Can’t get Eric’s book to work, connection coming and going.. more going really.. and Anton’s mag hasn’t arrived yet.. sure will do when I’m away again, ARGH.. but at least got to see Valery’s picture :)

  • .. BUT.. keep on dreaming :)

  • your colors are so rich…
    what gives?


    Thanks for your comments. Well, I am not a big tech guy so you may be disappointed here… Somehow, after lots of trials and errors in the past, I have managed to find a way of getting the colors I am looking for…. To start with I often purposely go for shooting a subject with bright colors, grafittis, etc, then try to use late afternoon light, even better dark cloudy sky (happens often in Belgium) then have my camera under exposed (-0.5 or -1), white balance set on cloudy sky and colors sometimes on saturated (when I do not do it directly with the camera, I sometimes enhance saturation afterward)… even after this I often expose on the bright part of the picture (like the only white cloud in the dark sky) and then use my flash… I have become addicted to my flash… the small pop-up flash on my Nikon is my norm… I use it all the time even in bright day light… That’s it really….not sure this helps :):):) but as you have asked… anyway, glad you liked it…



  • http://www.blurb.com/books/1375671

    Eric, Les gouts et les couleurs…. Unlike Panos, not crazy about “your” skies, but everything else is cool, you never disappoint.

  • Hey Eric, nice work. I like how you’ve handled the light and exposures. Sequence-wise, you might want to consider mixing up the people and the skating a lot more. To my eye, the skating is more peripheral to the people than vice versa.

  • Just checking in with a quick hello and a word to let you know that Andrew Sullivan and I have had a first and very happy and successful (albeit tiring) day of our very first workshop. I can already tell that I will need some stamina tips from DAH, if the maestro can spare a few suggestions of how to last a full week! Sorry to go missing from burn lately, but time is only allowing to keep you all in my heart…ciao

  • I need you Panos to come to Brussels and smoke with me and these kids :):):)
    ha ha..now you’re talking amigo!!!

  • Well, horrible photo. Apropos content.

  • Panos, I hear (read) you, but I’m in Cambodia, not Thailand.

  • John..:) i know, i know, i know..
    its just that u definitely know more about the region than the ignorant me!

  • Panos, I know you know, but Thai and Khmer is nearly like Greek and Turc (except for the religion)…

  • ROSS,

    Just looked at the work of Jan Grarup…The picture of the dead man with face covered in bloor and eyes opened is simply unbearable!!


  • Thanks John. Our “usual suspect”, Agnes Dherbeys, again (for the pix). Thumbs up to her.

  • anyone remember offhand the name of the photographer who took sort of voyeuristic photos of office workers at night, including building / other windows sometimes to use the elements of the grid..nice light, quiet, lonely mood…


  • Eric, it may be more bearable if he is only wounded? I mean, I am not sure he is dead (second comment, not sure what happend to the first, maybe did not send)

  • Herve,

    You are right…Not sure if the man is dead or not (I hope he is still alive) and it also does not make a difference whether he is dead or wounded…It is simply just a tough picture to look at…Probably makes it powerful though….


  • Panos:

    “and my unanswered question regarding Thailand…
    It is legal for a pervert to hire a 10 year old for sex but i cant smoke a joint by the beach over there in Thailand…It ls legal for any asshole Thaksin to kill a heroin addict but it is ok to protect a pimp that profits from prostitution of little kids and teenagers…Shame, hypocrites..”

    I don’t know if it’s legal, but that doesn’t really matter, since it is tollerated anyway.. I’m not much wiser about Thai politics than I was before, this party, that party, whatever colour they wear.. but as long as explotation and abuse of your very own children (if you are a politician, they are ALL YOUR KIDS), is either legal or being tollerated, it doesn’t really mater who sits on the top chair (to me).

  • There is a lull in the fire, and in a twist of reality, one of the soldiers yells across the road to an officer in an adjacent bunker: ”Is it OK to shoot foreigners and journalists?”


  • jenny lynn walker

    EVA: I agree with you.

    ERCIA: No, but I wish I did!

    ALL: I hope you got to see the faces of every dead and injured person as well! What wonderful images to be remembered by! I bet their families are over the moon to look at their brothers and sisters splashed over newspapers like this! Will you remember the way they were killed or the injury that led to them dying?

    And just out of interest: what effect do these images have on your understanding of the situation in Thailand and how far should the documenting go? Clearly documentation of human rights abuses and conflicts needs to be done – and not only of the conflict but all that gave rise to the conflict as well? What do you think?

    What have you learned from these images and what have you learned about protestors and the protest from them?

  • ERIC – lovely work my friend.. and i’m not surprised.

    i must say the sequencing threw me off a bit, starting with the close-up of the girl in purple.. she’s buried way too deep in my opinion.. and the pictures that follow her seem different than the earlier pictures.. are they meant to be a different chapter? if not i’d start mixing this up.. pace this out.. keep it hoppin’. i’m walking through the park POP POP fresh action fresh faces fresh concrete sounds… i dig it man.

  • Erica:



    Eric: finally got to work blurb.. agree about the sequencing, MIX! and good idea about having the book made to take with you to show off.. wish I thought of it too..

  • it doesn’t really mater who sits on the top chair (to me).
    Eva i agree…but question remains..why this phenomenon is so tolerated? by the people? or is it not?
    is it just poverty…? well..i guess that must be it..extreme poverty…i really dont know!

  • Eva, i used to like a particular pizza place back in the day…most times i ordered it used to be the same guy delivering the pizza..well after a while we got to know each other a little better, ice broke..so the deliver guy once told me that he visits thailand regularly…at least once every couple of months…Super cheap and the girls are nice…you can have 5 girls or more up into your room…blah blah..
    I remember when i asked him about why is prostitution is so accepted over there…he told me something like: “ohh why being so uptight? people there see it as a job”…kinda over simplistic right? but then again he could be right..maybe i am uptight…right wing uptight i would add , especially when it comes to kids and teens…

  • There is no free choice if you take that specific choice out of poverty.

    If there were no clients, there would be no offer. It’s a simple equation. Unless in your homeland there is some control (Italy jails the sex tourists if they discover them as paedophiles right off the airport when they land on National territory). But I could not say if this is influent, in numbers.

    I also know not enough about Thai culture to have a firm opinion (even having Thai family members).

    People there see it as a job? All fine if you’re an adult and consentient, if it is your free choice. And there we’re back to point one.

    And about poverty: is it not the politicians that should do something against that?

    One other thing I really don’t understand, all the Westeners always so paranoid of AIDS.. it hasn’t stopped them at all it seems..

  • Right wing uptight about a sex-related issue? Right wing uptight means you are doing what you are so vocally criticizing or at least desperately wanting to do it, and then blaming someone else for your bad thoughts. No, I don’t think that’s what you mean. Hopefully, you are more left wing uptight, which would be more of a discomfort-with-the-fate-of-the-victims kind of thing.

    Prostitution will never go away. Some men will always choose to pay for sex. Some women and men will always choose to sell it. When it comes to legalities, imo, choice is the key word. Children simply cannot choose to sell their bodies. Minors are not competent to make such a choice. It is not a choice when one must do it to eat, or feed one’s children, or otherwise survive. But if someone is freely selling themselves in order to amass diamonds and pearls, well, I suppose that’s her own business. In that case, my concern is that adults who choose to prostitute themselves should have legal protections and safe working conditions just as miners or factory workers or any other workers. But on the flip side, the side we’re discussing, those who force individuals or prey on individual who are forced into that line of work should be branded as sociopaths and prosecuted. Is that uptight?

  • Yes Michael I agree…
    Prostitution is the oldest profession and I respect it..
    That under age, minor, pedophile “thing” is that sickens me
    in a society (Thai) that will Kill anyone for smoking a joint…
    That’s why I’m so against that “war on drugs” serial killer hypocritical guy:(

  • And then u have California that legalizes medical marijuana but keeps prostitution illegal..
    What an “interesting” world we living in…

  • And then u have California that legalizes medical marijuana but keeps prostitution illegal..

    Well, you can always live on the California/Nevada border. That way you can legally keep your whore on one side of the line and your weed on the other. Who says the systen’s fucked up? Who says there’s a system?

  • http://www.photomichaelwolf.com/transparent_city/

    Michael Wolf – that’s it! thanks to you both!

  • Michael… Yes.. That’s it… Vegas twice a month and Venice for meds..;)
    or u can have it “both” delivered in your room in NY…
    problem solved..

  • NY ain’t no future paradise. From 1997 to 2006, the New York City Police Department arrested and jailed more than 353,000 people simply for possessing small amounts of marijuana.



    good luck with your workshop…yes, it does take a whole lot of energy….looks simple, but of course is not…i am usually totally drained by the end and i am sure you will agree at your conclusion…both of you will do very well i am sure….wish i was around to pop in and see how you doing…

    cheers, david

  • yes i second that…Andrew & Erica…best of luck…i know u guys can succeed..
    biggest hug..see u soon..:)

  • Isn’t one of the main arguments against prostitution (at least in the US) is that the commonality of the prostitutes’ backgrounds? Poverty, drug abuse, sexual abuse lead to the choice not exactly being a free one?

  • jenny lynn walker

    Wow, that is a wonderful piece from Julio Bittencourt in Sao Paulo! I really enjoyed seeing an approach that manages to unveil the daily lives of people living in difficult circumstances in an intimate way so respectfully! I love it! Thanks for sharing Eva!

    ERICA: Good luck with your workshop!

  • in Ancient Athens though the “hetaeras” prostitutes were highly respected (way more than the average housewife to say at least)…Pericles was married to the most powerful, educated pretty ….

    “Ancient writers also reported that Aspasia was a brothel keeper and a harlot”

    Advanced society (at least at that subject);)

  • Panos, I am not sure, maybe you confuse Cambodia with Thailand for being so angry against child sex trafficking? Not saying there is none of that happening in Thailand, since it happens here, or in France too (often within the same family) but Thailand has made strides, if compared with its neighbour….

    It’s a society that is in many ways libertarian, very live and let live, and for each to deal with the own consequences of its act. It has more to do with the mental fabric of the society than condoning crimes.

    It’s like here, people find perfectly normal we invade another country for its own good. Well, Thais will never be responsible for having hundred of kids and women maimed or killed as casualties of war. Not to speak of the resurgence of prostitution from economic disruption in these places we want to help (the admn may go for the oil or something, but we the people definitely accept it because of the samaritan purpose).

    Must go (for the day)…

  • (Herve…ha ha , speaking of France!)
    Franck Ribery football scandal prostitute breaks her silence
    The teenage call girl accused of sleeping with at least three French football stars when she was underage broke her silence over the scandal announcing: “loved them all”


  • Speaking of IPad photo apps, you all probably know about this from the Guardian UK:


  • a civilian-mass audience

    “Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself.”
    Leo Nikolaevich Tolstoy

    hmmm…I want to evolve…

    Evolve=love…Can I dance now???

  • Dropping by….

    Panos… soccer girl (pun vaguely not intended)… As long as she is not flied from Morocco to Gstaad by Polansky! :-)))

  • Herve;) we have no pedophiles in LA…Polansky was wayyyyyy before big O. showed up and changed everything!
    everything’s clean now..;)

  • David – It would be so great for the students to meet you – I think you are of course away, busy, but if you appear in Brooklyn do let us know, there is a group dinner Thursday nite around the corner from Marcy and we would love you there and would treat :)

    Thanks all for the encouragement – the photos from just the first day were such a leap from their portfolios, so we are very pleased and excited for them. I’m actually a little surprised how natural it feels to teach, the first challenge I have come across is to stay fully attuned to the needs and details of 10 at once, to give everyone the same attention and consideration despite personality or photography style/experience or anything else…I feel like a momma bear making sure all the baby bears get enough to eat! Around 4 pm today I started fantasizing about laying down…I think I need a caffeine drip.

  • Erica,:) once again, very very proud of you guys…keep it up..!!!!
    hugs from grecolandia

  • I was wondering if any Burnians are planing to got to the Mini LOOK3 this June 11 and 12 in Virginia.
    I will be down either very late on Friday or more than likely Saturday Morning. Would love to get together with some fellow Burnians if your attending.


  • Erica…

    i will not be in new york during your workshop this time around, but would love to stop by next time….

  • a civilian-mass audience

    EMCD and ANDREW…
    you are proud bears and I am a very very proud civilian…
    we will be there too, All the BURNIANS next to you…
    cause BURN is an Open workshop with an Open window

    ahhh…DAH …there is no other feeling …like when you see your “babies”…going out to the real world…
    hmmm…actually there is…
    hiiiii….I am bad, I am bad…

    we are all energy…energy comes and goes and floats around us…
    we have to respect our energy…
    Can you send me a smile now??? no,not the half, whatever smile…
    I would love a smile from your heart…yeap, a real one…like when you are holding a cold beer and you are watching the birds fart by…

  • a civilian-mass audience


    keep us rolling …
    beer on you in Cambodia
    beer on me in Grecolandia


  • something for those interested in reading a Thai perspective about the conflict….from S.P. Somtow…a composer and author……my friend Oli Pin-fat sent me this last week….here is the text in full…

    also Somtow’s blog is: http://www.somtow.org/

    Thailand: Challenging the “heroic revolution” archetype
    Somtow Sucharitkul

    I have been composing a long, day by day account of the “troubles” of
    the last three days, which I have not yet posted. The reason is that
    I’ve been getting a lot of mail asking me to explain “the truth” to
    people overseas.

    A lot of people here are astonished and appalled at the level of
    irresponsibility and inaccuracy shown by such major news sources as CNN,
    and are attributing the most astonishing motives to this, such as
    suggesting that they’re in the pay of Thaksin and so on.

    I don’t think this is really what is going on. Rather, I think that
    there are two basic problems: preconception and language.

    CNN first became a force to be reckoned with during the “People Power”
    movement in the Philippines. The kind of coverage we had for this was
    amazing. There was a camera in every camp, and we could follow this
    exciting revolution every step of the way. We knew exactly who to root
    for: the oppressed masses led by the widow of the iconic Aquino, and we
    knew that whenever President Marcos appeared he was Darth Vader, the
    symbol of an evil empire. The arc of the story was simple and
    inexorable. A whole new way of looking at the news was born, with all
    the excitement of a TV miniseries and, prophetically, a reality show as

    Of course, many of the little details of the story were conveniently
    glossed over. Reality was not — never is — so black and white. But there
    are three important things about this story: first, in its essentials,
    there was a lot of truth. And all the protagonists spoke English.

    The Philippines, as Filipinos never tire of telling me, is the third
    most populous English speaking country in the world. We will leave the
    definition of “English-speaking” to another blog, but it’s very
    important that the various sides in this conflict were able to
    articulate their viewpoints in a language which CNN well understood.

    The third important thing about the story is that it fulfilled a vision
    of history that is an inseparable part of the inheritance of western
    culture, that is so ingrained in western thinking that it is virtually
    impossible for an educated member of western society to divorce himself
    from it.

    It is a vision of history as a series of liberations. From Harmodius and
    Aristogeiton throwing off the tyrant’s yoke to the removal of the
    Tarquins and the establishment of the Roman Republic to the failed
    rebellion of Spartacus, from Magna Carta to the Bastille to the American
    Civil War to the Russian Revolution, there is this Platonic Model
    against which these big historical movements are always compared. There
    is a bad guy — often a dictator — who can be demonised. There is a
    struggling proletariat. The end comes with “liberty and justice for
    all”. This is Star Wars. The dark times. The Empire.

    The “People Power” coverage was riveting, compelling, and contained all
    the emotional components of this mythical story arc. Finding another
    such story, therefore, is a kind of Holy Grail for the international
    media. When a story comes that appears to contain some of the elements,
    and it’s too much hard work to verify those elements or get all the
    background detail, you go with the Great Archetype of Western

    Now, let us consider the redshirt conflict.

    Let’s not consider what has actually been happening in Thailand, but how
    it looks to someone whose worldview has been coloured with this
    particular view of history.

    Let’s consider the fact that there is pretty much nothing being
    explained in English, and that there are perhaps a dozen foreigners who
    really understand Thai thoroughly. I don’t mean Thai for shopping,
    bargirls, casual conversation and the like. Thai is a highly ambiguous
    language and is particularly well suited for seeming to say opposite
    things simultaneously. To get what is really being said takes total

    When you watch a red shirt rally, notice how many English signs and
    placards there are, and note that they are designed to show that these
    are events conforming to the archetype. The placards say “Democracy”,
    “No Violence,” “Stop killing innocent women and children” and so on.
    Speakers are passionately orating, crowds are moved. But there are no
    subtitles. What does it look like?

    The answer is obvious. It looks like oppressed masses demanding freedom
    from an evil dictator.

    Don’t blame Dan Rivers, et al, who are only doing what they are paid to
    do: find the compelling story within the mass of incomprehensible data,
    match that story to what the audience already knows and believes, and
    make sure the advertising money keeps flowing in.

    A vigorous counter-propaganda campaign in clear and simple English words
    of one syllable has always been lacking and is the reason the government
    is losing the PR war while actually following the most logical steps
    toward a real and lasting resolution.

    If the foreign press were in fact able to speak Thai well enough to
    follow all the reportage here coming from all sides, they would also be
    including some of the following information in their reports. I want to
    insist yet again that I am not siding with anyone. The following is just
    information that people really need before they write their news

    • Thaksin was democratically elected, but became increasingly undemocratic, and the country gradually devolved from a nation where oligarchs skimmed off the top to a kleptocracy of one. During his watch, thousands of people were summarily executed in the South of Thailand and in a bizarre “war on drugs” in which body count was considered a marker of success.

    • the coup that ousted Thaksin was of course completely illegal, but none of the people who carried it out are in the present government.

    • the yellow shirts’ greatest error in moulding its international image was to elevate Thaksin’s corruption as its major bone of contention. Thai governments have always been corrupt. The extent of corruption and the fact that much of it went into only one pocket was shocking to Thais, but the west views all “second-rate countries” as being corrupt. Had they used the human rights violations and muzzling of the press as their key talking points, the “heroic revolution” archetype would have been moulded with opposite protagonists, and CNN and BBC would be telling an opposite story today.

    • the constitution which was approved by a referendum after the coup and which brought back democracy was flawed, but it provided more checks and balances, and made election fraud a truly accountable offense for the first time.

    • the parliamentary process by which the Democrat coalition came to power was the same process by which the Lib Dems and Tories have attained power in Britain. The parliament that voted in this government consists entirely of democratically elected members.

    • no one ever disputed the red shirts’ right to peaceful assembly, and the government went out of its way to accede to their demands.

    • this country already has democracy. Not a perfect one, but the idea of “demanding democracy” is sheer fantasy

    • the yellow shirts did not succeed in getting any of their demands from the government. The last two governments changed because key figures were shown to have committed election fraud. They simply did not take their own constitution seriously enough to follow it.

    • the red TV station has a perfect right to exist, but if foreign journalists actually understood Thai, they would realise that much of its content went far beyond any constitutionally acceptable limits of “protected speech” in a western democracy. Every civilised society limits speech when it actually harms others, whether by inciting hate or by slander. The government may have been wrong to brusquely pull the plug, but was certainly right to cry foul. It should have sought an injunction first. Example: Arisman threatened to destroy mosques, government buildings, and “all institutions you hold sacred” … a clip widely seen on YouTube, without subtitles. Without subtitles, it looks like “liberty, equality, fraternity”.

    • the army hasn’t been shooting women and children … or indeed anyone at all, except in self-defence. Otherwise this would all be over, wouldn’t it? It’s simple for a big army to mow down 5,000 defenceless people.

    • since the government called the red shirts’ bluff and allowed the deputy P.M. to report to the authorities to hear their accusations, the red leaders have been making ever-more fanciful demands. The idea of UN intervention is patently absurd. When Thaksin killed all those Muslims and alleged drug lords, human rights groups asked the UN to intervene. When the army took over the entire country, some asked the UN to intervene. The UN doesn’t intervene in the internal affairs of sovereign countries except when requested to by the country itself or when the government has completely broken down.

    • Thailand hasn’t had an unbreachable gulf between rich and poor for at least 20 years. These conflicts are about the rise of the middle class, not the war between the aristocrats and the proletariat.

    • Abhisit, with his thoroughly western and somewhat liberal background, shares the values of the west and is in fact more likely to bring about the social revolution needed by Thailand’s agrarian poor than any previous leader. He is, in fact, pretty red, while Thaksin, in his autocratic style of leadership, is in a way pretty yellow. Simplistic portrayals do not help anyone to understand anything.

    • the only people who do not seem to care about the reds’ actual grievances are their own leaders, who are basically making everyone risk their lives to see if they can get bail.

    • the King has said all that he is constitutionally able to say when he spoke to the supreme court justices and urged them to do their duty. The western press never seem to realise that the Thai monarchy is constitutionally on the European model … not, say, the Saudi model. The king REIGNS … he doesn’t “rule”. This is a democracy. The king is supposed to symbolise all the people, not a special interest group.

    The above are just a few of the elements that needed to be sorted
    through in order to provide a balanced view of what is happening in this

    There is one final element that must be mentioned. Most are not even
    aware of it. But there is, in the western mindset, a deeply ingrained
    sense of the moral superiority of western culture which carries with it
    the idea that a third world country must by its very nature be ruled by
    despots, oppress peasants, and kill and torture people. Most westerners
    become very insulted when this is pointed out to them because our
    deepest prejudices are always those of which we are least aware. I
    believe that there is a streak of this crypto-racism in some of the
    reportage we are seeing in the west. It is because of this that Baghdad,
    Yangon, and Bangkok are being treated as the same thing. We all look

    Yes, this opinion is always greeted with outrage. I do my best to face
    my own preconceptions and don’t succeed that often, but I acknowledge
    they exist nonetheless.

    Some of the foreign press are painting the endgame as the Alamo, but it
    is not. It is a lot closer to Jonestown or Waco.

    Like those latter two cases, a highly charismatic leader figure (in our
    case operating from a distance, shopping in Paris while his minions
    sweat in the 94°weather) has taken an inspirational idea: in one case
    Christianity, in the other democracy, and reinvented it so that
    mainstream Christians, or real democrats, can no longer recognise it.
    The followers are trapped. There is a siege mentality and information
    coming from outside is screened so that those trapped believe they will
    be killed if they try to leave. Women and children are being told that
    they are in danger if they fall into the hands of the government, and to
    distrust the medics and NGOs waiting to help them. There are outraged
    pronouncements that they’re not in fact using the children as human
    shields, but that the parents brought them willingly to “entertain and
    thrill” them. There is mounting paranoia coupled with delusions of
    grandeur, so that the little red kingdom feels it has the right to
    summon the United Nations, just like any other sovereign state. The
    reporters in Rajprasong who are attached to the red community are as
    susceptible to this variant of the Stockholm syndrome as anyone else.

    The international press must separate out the very real problems that
    the rural areas of Thailand face, which will take decades to fix, from
    the fact that a mob is rampaging through Bangkok, burning, looting, and
    firing grenades, threatening in the name of democracy to destroy what
    democracy yet remains in this country.

    But this bad reporting is not their fault. It is our fault for not
    providing the facts in bite-sized pieces, in the right language, at the
    right time.

    This article has been republished with the permission of the author

  • panos – Ευχαριστώ !

    dah – Ευχαριστώ ! for next time and for all the inner support this time

    kurt – yes, but will be easier to say hello in the eves on the farm for me, not expecting to be in town much

    civi – “and the littlest bear said, and someone’s been eating my porridge…”

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Thank you BOBBY…
    don’t worry…we are still reading…:)))

  • jenny lynn walker

    BOB: Thanks for that. I must say that whilst it is extremely well written – not suprisingly coming from an author – the basic premise behind the thesis that poor reporting is down to a communication problem, a language problem, is absurd. Did the author consider that in the universities in Bangkok there are quite a number of people to turn to who speak exceptionally good English, and some of whom are native speakers themselves – and universities outside of the country as well. These people can, and do, provide very good information backed up by years of studying the situation – from between a decade to 20 years. In addition, for non-Thai speakers who are deeply interested, there is also a site where government announcements and press coverage is translated into English. I have not looked at that myself as I did not think it was necessary given that I was purely documenting people on the street – street photography really – but can probably track it down if anyone is intersted to go more deeply into it. Please let me know.

    “But this bad reporting is not their fault. It is our fault for not
    providing the facts in bite-sized pieces, in the right language, at the
    right time.”

    “… a mob is rampaging through Bangkok, burning, looting, and
    firing grenades, threatening in the name of democracy to destroy what
    democracy yet remains in this country.”

    Does anyone know if the author was actually in Bangkok at the time of the protest or reading about it in the newspapers? It is soooo sensationalist!

  • jenny lynn walker

    Mr Vink,

    Thank you for complimenting me on the way I use natural light in my work. I really appreciated that – even though you did not state it publicly!

    Please send my best wishes to Agnes D.


  • jenny lynn walker

    Brian: “Isn’t one of the main arguments against prostitution (at least in the US) is that the commonality of the prostitutes’ backgrounds? Poverty, drug abuse, sexual abuse lead to the choice not exactly being a free one?” Thank you for that!!!!

    Panos: If you can’t make it to ancient Greece, how about The World Cup – sounds like it could end up being a pretty close thing, in the context of this discussion. By the way, I am very keen on your Bangkok idea and am lining up some places in advance just in case you make it!!! ; )

  • Entered the competition “Artists Wanted” today (deadline may 31st). Anyone else here entering?

    My portfolio: http://www.artistswanted.org/Frenetisk

  • jenny lynn walker

    EMCD et al: “It is more fun to talk with someone who doesn’t use long, difficult words but rather short, easy words like “What about lunch?” Winne the Pooh. Isn’t that beautiful, and true! : )

  • JENNY…

    again..please write a responsible story on BKK and back it up with strong photographs and we will publish it here as we did with Panos’ Greek protests….or, simply post a link with your work…curious to see something from you on these events with which you are so closely involved….

  • Oh my God, that’s terrible news! Oh, I’m so sorry to hear of your troubles, Akaky, your Uncle Max, he was a good man, may he rest in peace. His troubles are over, poor man, and he’s in a better place. He didn’t suffer, I hope. Ah well, lad, it happens to us all, sooner or later. His time had come, that’s all, and [I really love this bit] things could have been much worse, you know [how? The guy died, for chrissakes, how does it get much worse than that?]

    The above is just a portion of the sort of thing you hear at an Irish wake these days, which is not the drunken bacchanal of the fevered non-Celtic imagination—we have St. Patrick’s Day for that sort of thing—but rather a somewhat somber event where you remember the dearly departed’s good points, gloss over the dearly departed’s not so good points, comfort the widow in her hour of grief and tribulation, and stare sharply at those members of the clan who didn’t get the memo about the Irish wake not being the drunken bacchanal of the fevered non-Celtic imagination. In Uncle Max’s case, however, much of what I’ve mentioned did not occur and when it did occur, the occurrence became an exercise in trying to keep a straight face. Everyone found glossing over Uncle Max’s not so good points something of a trial, as the only things most people who ever dealt with Uncle Max really remembered about Uncle Max was his not so good points. In short, Uncle Max was a complete shit.

    Saying such a thing about Uncle Max pains me deeply, a statement that falls somewhere between a campaign promise and a Spanish fly ad on the Albany, Chicago & Washington mendacity scale. I forget where Uncle Max stood in the birth order; I think he was the last or the next to last of my father’s siblings, not that it matters now, but anyone who ever met him agreed that Uncle Max was the handsomest, most charming bastard that they’d ever met in their lives. There is an Uncle Max in every family [I think]—the lovable rogue who gets away with stuff the other kids can only dream of getting away with. The problem with lovable roguery is that after a while, it gets tiresome and by the end of his life Uncle Max had gotten incredibly tiresome, and I don’t mean that in a good way.

    My first childhood memories of Uncle Max are set in the bucolic splendor of our happy little burg, where my parents had just bought a small vacation home where my brothers and me could spend our summer vacations having good clean fun instead of roaming the hot and gritty streets of the great metropolis thinking of new and ingenious ways of getting into trouble. At first, our enforced sojourn amid the fresh air and the green, green grass of not home had a profound psycholaxative effect on my brothers and I—we were bored absolutely shitless. But kids will be kids, after all, and soon we found things to do that were just as exciting as the things we could have done in the city. A burning barn, for example, may not provide the high drama of an apartment house fire, but the lack of tragic potential is more than made up for in comic possibilities; watching the local volunteer fire department trying to get itself organized and put out an actual fire was, in those far off days, one of the better shows on Earth. I should mention here, before the onslaught of angry letters from volunteer firemen and the ladies’ auxiliaries from one end of this our Great Republic to the other arrive on my doorstep, that our local volunteer fire department has become much more proficient at their job since the days of which I speak, and that my brother wishes to apologize yet again for setting that barn ablaze. It was, as he has maintained for the past forty years, an accident.

    Well, no sooner had our happy little family ensconced itself in our happy little burg than Uncle Max decided to pay us a visit. When he called my father, Uncle Max assured him that no, he wasn’t coming up to borrow money—he had plenty of money, thank you very much, and he didn’t need anymore, a claim my father doubted—fiscal responsibility, like almost any other form of responsibility you might care to mention, was not a virtue Uncle Max chose to cultivate with any degree of assiduity—but his brother being his brother, my father could not slam the door in Uncle Max’s face, even if that’s what my mother wanted him to do.

    Uncle Max called on a Tuesday, if I remember this right, and he arrived the next Saturday in a very large car. I don’t remember what model it was; it might have been a Cadillac, but I can’t really be sure now. He’d borrowed the money to buy this particularly conspicuous bit of conspicuous consumption from a loan shark; banks in those halcyon days of yesteryear disliked lending money to someone who could not repay the loan, a prejudice many bankers seem to have overcome in the years since these events occurred; and, as he would have done with the bank, Uncle Max chose not to repay the loan shark, an insouciant attitude towards the financial verities that the loan shark no doubt found irritating in the extreme. In order to convince Uncle Max of the many benefits of the free market system in general and the installment plan in particular, the loan shark dispatched two of his minions to cajole Uncle Max into seeing economic reason. Something must have gone wrong with the interview, as the two minions woke up in the hospital the next day being treated by doctors convinced they’d stepped in front of a moving truck. [N.B.: Uncle Max had a bit of a temper, as you may have guessed, and he was a boxer in his teens. He was also one of the strongest men I’d ever seen. I saw him bend a Kennedy half-dollar between his thumb and his index and middle finger when he was sixty years old.]

    As you might imagine, the loan shark was utterly aghast at this attack upon his employees and by his not getting the vig, although I suspect that latter aghasted him much more, if that’s even a word, than the former, and so our aggrieved Shylock sent forth squads of ill-intentioned men to find Uncle Max and show him the error of his ways, preferably in a very gory, painful, and public manner, lest Uncle Max’s example breed imitation amongst the rest of the loan shark’s clientele. Uncle Max, for his part, was also utterly aghast, possibly for the first time in his life, at the possibility that his actions might have adverse consequences, in this case very adverse consequences indeed, and so took this opportunity to vanish completely from the face of the earth.

    Six months later, Uncle Max re-emerged as…Uncle Moshe. For reasons best known to himself, Uncle Max decided that being a Hasid, complete with blond beard and long dark coat, was the perfect disguise for a very erstwhile Irish-American altar boy on the run from an unhappy mob-connected loan shark (is there any other kind of loan shark, I wonder). To advance the verisimilitude of the disguise, Uncle Max had acquired a truly outstanding command of the Yiddish language, speaking with almost perfect accuracy a dialect of that language unknown to the vast majority of Yiddish speakers past and present. Uncle Max’s Yiddish was Yiddish in much the same way that pouring ketchup on your spaghetti and meatballs is Italian cuisine.

    But the disguise must have worked; Uncle Max arrived on our doorstep one sunny Saturday afternoon in July all in one piece and without a scratch on him, his blond peyos fluttering in the wind, complete with the huge car that all the fuss was about and his Portuguese girl friend, Maria, and no, I have not counted the number of mitzvahs violated in either the letter or the spirit in the first part of this sentence. I don’t where Uncle Max met Maria and I am pretty sure I do not want to know. Maria could have been a gargoyle in another life and she could have been a gargoyle in this life as well, if she wanted the job. On the other hand, the two other things that really stood out about Maria really stood out, to the point that even I, at that tender age, wandered aloud if those things were real. My mother, ever the soul of etiquette, whacked me across the back of my head for my impertinence. To complete the inventory, it soon became self-evident that Maria’s English language skills were more than a little wanting; her contributions to the conversation were basically yes, no, please, thank you very much, and is that so, either singly or in some combination thereof. Whether she actually knew what these stock phrases meant is one of the great mysteries of modern times, but I suppose she meant well. She called Uncle Max “Moyshee” and she chain smoked cigarettes, often lighting a fresh cigarette with the still burning butt of her previous one, a once common habit here in this our Great Republic, and a fact I include here for its anthropological and historical interest to the younger readers. Maria and Uncle Max seemed very happy together, or as happy as a man who couldn’t speak Portuguese could be with a woman who couldn’t speak fake Yiddish.

    As my parents settled down around the kitchen table with Uncle Max and Maria, my mother told my brothers and me to go out and play until she called us in for dinner. This happened much more then than it does now, when parents feel that they aren’t properly parenting unless they are constantly annoying their children every minute of the day. We trooped out the front door and spent the next several hours doing whatever it was we were doing—I forget the details now, but it probably had something to do with riding our bicycles down a very steep hill and seeing if we could stop before we ran into a very high stone wall, an amusement my father banned a few years later after a series of mistimed stops resulted in several expensive broken bones, three concussions, and one broken nose. After that, we played a lot of baseball, which, while interesting in its own way, did not have the same thrill quotient for us that potentially fatal blunt force trauma did. On this day, though, we did manage not to break anything by the time my mother started calling us in to eat, but it was not for want of trying.

    I remember walking up the driveway when I heard something strange coming from the grass. I should point out here that at this time my home did not have a lawn in the conventionally understood meaning of that word, namely a largely pointless expanse of unnecessary foliage designed to give Mexicans of uncertain immigration status gainful employment. Instead of the trim, clipped green strip of your typical suburbanite’s darkest botanical fantasies, we had a wild, uncropped, uncut retro thatch of bush populated with ragweed stalks the size of dwarf sequoias towering over our heads and tall grass so impenetrable that a company of Viet Cong could hide out there for months on end without anyone realizing that Charlie had tunneled his way into the land of the free and the home of the brave.

    My mother called again, this time for me, and told me to find Uncle Max and his guest—that’s the word she used, guest. I said okay and I started down the path through the front forest; it seems ridiculous to call such a broad swath of flora a lawn, now that I think of it; to find them. I got halfway down the path and called for Uncle Max, whereupon I heard an immediate “Jesus frigging Christ!” It was Uncle Max experiencing not a sudden Pauline road to Damascus conversion from faux Judaism to faux Christianity, but rather him proclaiming the usual male response to kid induced coitus interruptus. Maria screeched something in response in what I guess must have been Portuguese—I don’t speak that language so I can’t be sure. There was a momentary pink flash of this and that; apparently they were real; and then the sound of my father shouting angrily at Uncle Max from the porch. My mother appeared miraculously from nowhere and whisked me away into the house, where she scolded me for reasons I did not fathom at the time and that she would not explain, and the evening and the morning were the last day I would see Uncle Max for a long time.

    And so Uncle Max is dead. I don’t know what happened to Maria; he may have married her; Uncle Max married several times, although I can’t say for certain that he ever divorced any of the wives. He died and his children wouldn’t pay for the funeral. They hadn’t seen or spoken to Uncle Max for thirty years and saw no reason to shell out money for their sperm donor. My uncles paid for the cremation and they put the urn in my grandmother’s coffin. Getting Uncle Max’s name embossed on the urn would have cost another fifty dollars, so my uncles didn’t bother; they printed Uncle Max’s name and vital dates on a post-it note with a magic marker and then taped the note to the urn. It’s not much, of course, but it’s a lot more than some people get.

  • Ok, ALL, or those who know.. guess I’ve messed up.. question: seems I’ve overexposed by one full stop a roll (or two or three..) of Tri-X, rated at 400 asa, but EV was on +1. I tend to overexpose anyway by adjusting shutterspeed accordingly, but now I think it’s too much.. how do I develop the darned things, shortening the time? If yes, by how much? Or what? I do remember to have read something somewhere, but can’t find it..

    Note to self: never hand out a camera you’re shooting with. If you do, CHECK THE SETTINGS on the cam when you get it back. Before changing the batteries (’cause you think they might be half dead because of the too slow shutterspeed), CHECK THE SETTINGS. And before swearing at the cam, because shutterspeed still seems off, CHECK THE SETTINGS, all of them. Sigh.

    Dinner. Then back to read the postings. All of them.

  • a civilian-mass audience

    After BOBBY and AKAKY…there is no dinner for me…
    I will be reading for quite some time…


    VIVA …back to readrink!!!

  • AKAKY.

    My man, my man, my man, MY MAN!!!!!!
    It’s been a long, long wait, but man, was it worth it!!!!
    Does anyone still have any doubts at all that Akaky is the MASTER, the MAN!!!

  • “Isn’t one of the main arguments against prostitution (at least in the US) is that the commonality of the prostitutes’ backgrounds? Poverty, drug abuse, sexual abuse lead to the choice not exactly being a free one?”

    Hmm.. is this the same in places where prostitution is legal? I mean, isn’t the fact that it is illegal, forbidden, an effect (and not a cause) of the background many prostitutes come from, or fall into?

    Would it be the same to the clients, if it was legal? Or does the fact of doing something forbidden add to the thrill?

    But then, what do I know..

  • Bob: thank you for posting the article (and link), it finally starts to make some sense!

    Akaky! Nice tribute!

  • eva. Ouch! If you have more than one roll you can maybe do one as a test. Pull the dev time maybe 10% and agitate a bit more vigorously…or you could just do a clip test. snip off 3 or 4 frames worth and dev normally..do a visual on that and adjust. On the bright side(no pun intended) tri-x is pretty forgiving.
    good luck.

  • Erica & Andrew, looking forward to seeing a post of your student’s work. Yea.

  • john, thanks! will try.. not very keen on snipping off (and destroing for sure THE ONE pic ;) ), but I guess it’s the best thing to do. Well. Lesson learnt. Off to the next..

  • sssssssssshhhhhh……….quietly David the eyes are searching http://www.etrouko.com.au/iman.htm

  • EVA..

    one full stop over is not the end of the world…i rate Tri-X at 300 anyway..a slight overexposure is better than underexposing..a full stop not good, but you will get fairly good prints anyway, albeit a bit more grainy….yes, do as John says clip test…i would pull the time maybe 20%, but the tests will show you what to do…just make sure your develop temp is 68 degrees…if too warm it will make the problem worse even if you pull it…good luck and let us know…

    cheers, david

  • Imants, I love your use of negative space. You have an artist’s touch with it.

    Wanted to send along one of the Dalai Lama’s latest posting on Facebook (yeah, he has a page and it is great to receive his stuff):

    Saying that one should be patient and withstand trouble doesn’t mean one should be defeated and overcome. The whole purpose of engaging in the practice of patience is to become stronger in mind, stronger in heart. And you also want to remain calm. If you lose patience and your brain becomes confused with emotion, you will lose the power to analyze and figure out how to overcome the negative force that is opposing you.

    Just now saw the strong connection and why I felt so clued into this aspect of Imants’ work. Yum.

  • Eva,

    you might want to have a look at the “massive development chart” for reference:

    developing with D-76 1+1, tri-x @200 asa requires 9,5 min. while @400-800 asa just goes up to 9,75 min. (for 35mm format)

  • Thanks Lee ……….remember it is important to nurture that impatience and foster confused emotions to make sense of what is unseen. Suppress that yearning to walk towards the sun and take you away.
    Now those negative forces time is the real enemy so we are better off fighting amongst ourselves ………… laughing

  • Eva;

    Couldn’t work out why my camera was shooting over and under all the time. Somehow I had inadvertantly pressed the bracketing button. I never use it, and it took me a while to figure out!

    Also if you’re using Tri-x; look for “Arista Premium B&W 400” on Freestyle’s website. It’s meant to be re-bradged Tri-x. Pretty cheap…


  • Laughing with you Imants.

  • Past weekend on the west coast of the Island. Click my name.

    Bob Bickford..Tofino, site of the 2009 coldwater classic. Would be surfer dudes and dudettes on Chestermans beach. http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/image/124909597

  • Clearly documentation of human rights abuses and conflicts needs to be done – and not only of the conflict but all that gave rise to the conflict as well? What do you think?

    Absolutely, Jenny. But I am not sure there are Human Rights abuses persay to report on, regarding Issan folks. And my point about the Red Shirts is that the protests were strictly about political issues (throw this unlected PM-ship out, and have elections). For example, there are many social conflicts in Thailand (and in Bangkok while the Reds were protesting), as in anywhere, but the Red Shirts have not tagged along these. Likewise with real Human Rights issues, like exploited refugees from Burma, or the 4000 Hmongs sent back to Laos (and they were camped in Issan) to a most uncertain future.

    Last year, when I was with the Red Shirts for a day, Just about half a mile away from them was “the assembly of the poor”. This is a grass roots movement mostly constituted by disenfranchised farmers, many not land owners, that started over 10 years ago. These people, not always the same, have camped regularly in front of the ministry of agriculture ever since. Real social conflict here, they want their plight heard by any govnmt, be it the old guard, or Thaksin’s. Weirdly so, the red Shirts did not have anything to do with them. Which IMO, is because the Reds are under a leadership that wants political redress, rather than pursuing advocacies of real and happening social comflicts. IMO, again.

    A month ago, 2000 farmers demonstrated in bangkok to get a fair price for their cereals (as global prices had dropped, threatening their livelihood). There too, it was completely independant of the Red Shirts protests. Thaialnd still doesn’t have a political party that would act on a progressive platform, and helps unify all these separate conflicts into one huge advocacy for profound change and against inequalities. I won’t go into why it is not so, but I gave a few hints before.

  • BTW, you guys are going to laugh, and rightly so, but prostitution is….Illegal is Thailand! Not kidding! :-)

    Eva, fear of Aids, but being sex tourists. I think the internet has calmed many fears, not just of aids, but of traveling, for many westerners, who otherwise would not go. The sites where guys tell of their very happy and succesful experiences at enjoying the nightlife, but also feeling welcomed and safe, regarding personal security, in a “3r world” country, are a plethora. Use of condoms is also completely taken for granted.

    So that the question would be the same as to ask why gay people still have sex outside of having a single partner? because it’s there, available, and if practiced safely, not playing Russian Roulette with your life.

    BTW, if there were no sex tourists, there still would be a lot of prositution in Thailand.

    Of course, economics has all to do with it, but not so much coming from extreme poverty, but living in the midst of a society (Thailand), where western consumerism has firmly taken grasp. It does create a lot of pressure to “keep up with the Johns”, if only for a woman to wish to send her kid(s) to school a bit further than she’d been herself, since the last time I saw some stats, only 3% of the non middle-class population have access to higher education.

  • Herve; “but prostitution is….Illegal is Thailand!”

    Been legal in NZ since 2003

  • A lot of prattle about Thailand maybe you should start a blog your opinion getting a bit tiresome…….

  • Except for what I intended to be a brief peek at the cover photos and nothing more, until I discovered Emily Schiffer’s piece, I have been absent for awhile and probably will be for a spell yet to come. Schiffer’s piece struck me hard, not only because of her excellent photography, but because the tiny village of Dupree, South Dakota, Cheyenne River Sioux Reservation is really where the direction of my career was set, even though I was not there as a photographer.

    The reason for my absence here is because a week-and-a-half ago, I flew from Alaska to Phoenix to pay a visit to my friend before he died. He is Navajo, but like me married an Apache and we became best friends when my wife and I spent five years living on her reservation in the late ’70’s and early 80’s. As I have mentioned before, in those days I put out the tribal newspaper and it was that experience that led to my one and only spread in National Geographic. I hired Vincent to do cartoons and artwork for me. He went on to become famed in Indian Country, not only for his cartoons but as a songwriter and performer who knew how to reach the people.

    His family gave me both the honor and the heartache to photograph his funeral and today I put it on my blog at this link:


    Over the next couple of days, I will be adding some tributes to that link.

    Eva, if you have not already developed your film I don’t think one stop is much of a problem at all. I haven’t developed Tri-X in a long time, but I used to do so continually. I found that in a situation like yours, T-Max developer will produce a somewhat flat negative that preserves the full range of detail from highlight to shadow.

    Once I leave Arizona, I go straight to the Brooks Range, Alaska, village of Anaktuvuk Pass. I will not be home until June 3 or 4. It is unlikely that I will comment here again until after that, but I will try to drop by for a glance now and then and I will be thinking of you all.

  • bill

    what a great tribute to your friend.. thankyou for sharing your thoughts and photos


  • Eva, If you overexposed by one stop and compensate by reducing development time, you will get lower contrast negatives. That’s fine when bright and contrasty but could be an issue if the light was already very flat. In this case, here is an option that might help:

    Use a developer that gives less film speed than what you normally use. You can do either a clip test to home in on the right development time and temperature or shoot a fresh test roll (this is what I do) with the same +1 exposure in similar lighting as you shot the ‘real roll’.

    After establishing a decent development time/temp on your test roll (you can even cut it in half giving you two development tests if need be) you can then confidently develop the real roll.

    If you normally shoot D76 1+1, even using D76 undiluted will shed up to half a stop of speed. If you normally use Xtol 1+1 or DDX, undiluted D76 will be a whole stop slower i.e. lose you the stop you accidentally gained.

    If you want you can email me at tom.stanworth@gmail.com

  • Don’t read it, Imants. It’s long enough to spot and pass by.

  • Thanks all, no, not yet developed, will do over the weekend, one roll at a time, since the mishap occoured somewhere into one of them on day two or three (yes, I did number them!)..

    David, agreed, better over than underexposed, more grain is something I can live with.. by rating Tri-x at 300, do you mean you set the camera on 300 (320) and then process the film as if it was shot at 400 asa? Or you shoot at 400 and process as a 320?

    Ross, will check out the Arista.. on my cam there’s no possibility to accidentaly push the bracketing button, something I didn’t have on the previous camera anyway and don’t use, here you must push a button and at the same time turn the wheel with two fingers, so I suppose somebody fumbled with it..

    Abele, 9.5 mins for tri-x at 200 asa seems a lot to me (I do either 8 or 8.5, have it written down somewhere), the deviant chart indications are for the previous Tri-x, not the one now in commerce..

    Gordon, looks more WET coast than west coast ;)

    Bill, hugs!

    Herve, if somebody (wherever they reside) can afford to send their kids to school only by selling themselves, if you don’t call this poverty, then what is it?

  • Thomas, am on the run, will come back to this, thanks!!

  • Herve you and your side kick Jenny write all this verbal diarrhoea and don’t have a photo to show ………..that is a piss poor effort on a photographically orientated site . You guys already filled “closing time” now it is all the same “concerned citizen” stuff here and it is all talk and no action crap

  • Valid point, Imants.

    PS:I just sent a submission to David, regarding Issan.

  • Eva (Sorry, Imants), It’s extreme poverty I alluded to, not poverty. They do have a choice, and many choose not to enter that trade.

  • Eva; Just sharing a “silly mistake” story! :-)

  • a civilian-mass audience

    I am still reading…

  • sounds like a positive link a few images for us to have a look………

  • Imants, photo, with my apologies, you were absolutely right:


  • Eva…

    Regarding the TX overexposure…
    The best way to go about this is of course to do tests…
    Since you already have an established processing system though (including dilution of developer, development time, temperature and agitation) that gives you satisfactory results, a minor reduction (10-20%) in developing time (keeping all other variables constant) will do the trick just fine.
    As Thomas mentioned underdevelopment will give you a negative with a little less contrast.
    Intentional overexposure/underdevelopment is used to accommodate more-than-normal-contrast scenes—just like underexposure/overdevelopment is used to add some contrast in an otherwise very dull and flat scene.

  • Great to see that the red shirts were corporately sponsored…….. I have always had to commit my own expenses to the cause

  • Frostfrog, wow. Any plans to do a tight edit? I’d like to see one nicely presented. Might be great if you had some audio as well. Singer/songwriter, you know.

    Herve, interesting. Is that photo communicating what you want to say about the red shirts? Are they bought and paid for?

  • jenny lynn walker

    Imants: You are hysterical! Yes, way too much verbal on this topic! I tried a couple of times to change the topic, but a tidal wave of comments had appeared again every time I logged on! Give me a break on showing images – at least a few more hours. DAH only said he wanted to see it yesterday and as you can imagine, there’s a lot of it.

  • Wow!!!!!!!!the reds have packed up and gone home fed the kids, said hi to the the wife and are back out in the fields licking their wounds and still no photos from you …… you could have posted a couple on your lightstalkers gallery and then link them this ain’t a difficult process as you know yourself …no tsunami of comments other than some you and the Herve guy who is back in America, eaten an airline meal and still managed to post a link image…………….


    yes correct..i suppose i am overexposing just a bit as “normal” by rating Tri-X at 300 in the first place..of course, this all depends on, metering method, agitation frequency, type of developer, etc as well…i think for sure we can agree that a thin negative is worse than a heavy one…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    do we have to vote now???

    cause I am still reading…:)))

  • Eva, (laughing) you nailed it, that is its’ nickname. The outer coast of Vancouver Island is a temperate rainforest. Average rainfall in Tofino is 135 inches a year…more than ten feet!

  • David…


    The way we evaluate the light in a scene *and* our aesthetics (e.g. some people underexpose intentionally in order to *not* have details in the lower print values while others go to considerable lengths in order to preserve those same details) play a big part in how we choose to expose and develop our films. Also, when testing to find the *actual* speed of a given film, most films are found to be from 1/3 to more than 1 full stop slower than what they’re advertised to be. So, most people do indeed tend to overexpose a bit as a default.

    And of course, when talking about shooting roll films—with exposures made under different lighting conditions on the same roll—things are even more complicated and compromises have to be made all around…


  • Oh, and of course it depends on how you’ll be using the negatives too…

    A negative which will be printed on a condenser enlarger needs less contrast than one which will be printed on a diffuser enlarger. Also, if instead of printing in the darkroom you plan to only scan your negatives, a thinner negative will probably serve you better than a denser one…

    p.s. I bet you’re very excited to reenter the darkroom world after many years… have fun…

  • Bill, thank you…
    loved the Arizona photos….big hug

  • Michael Webster. Not about the Red Shirts, about Thailand, and it occured to me after posting it that it indeed foolowed my own comment about Western consumerism in the midst of that country.
    I am sure I took the photo merely thinking “funny, the guy did not have a real (scripted) Red shirt, but that T-shirt will do”. Thais are a pragmatic bunch, if this doesn’t work, that will do. If Democracy is not quite here, Thaksin will do… Etc! ;-)

    A firm and relax grip at the Reds camp (love the arguing finger behind):


  • Again, thanks everybody for the help about the overexposure/developing question! Good to know not to be the only one in the boat (hi Ross ;) ), I’ll treat the rolls as shot at 200 asa, plus my usual slight overexposure, which I can handle, cross every toe I’ve got and hope for the best..

  • Not sure what happened, my comment did not land on BURN.

    Anyway, Michael W, I was just saying, no special comment on my part, thais are a pragmatic bunch, if no scripted Red Shirt, the Coca Cola will do fine, if no real democracy, Thaksin will do…! ;-)

    and I added a link for another picture (hope it passes this time):


  • sorry for the repeat, I will be more patient next time…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    oime …oime …SIDNEY is right…
    you are DaMan…DaWoman…DaSoul…DaSpirit…DaourFamily

    I see “real faces” in your photos…I connect…in a weird way…
    a civilian somewhere lost in Greece…can connect…with VINCENT CRAIG and his people…with your family …oime…Navajo, Apache…!!!

    … whatever you are…
    WE ARE ALL ONE…let’s BURN the name tags…we are all one…
    and I LOVE YOU…

    P.S ok,enough said… I have been TX overexposed …


    I have I am sorry to say given into that wanting and lust and recently purchased a used M4-P with Voigtlander Nokton Classic multi-coated 40mm 1.4. I got a really good deal and could not pass it up. This will bring me back to my days starting out in photography with me Dad’s ancient Leica and developing in my parents bathroom. BTY some people are using the Nokton on the GF1 and are loving it.


    Total synchronicity. I am taking notes at the expense of your dilemma. Will be loading some Tri-X and experimenting soon. Thanks for being honest and open with your situation. It helps us all to learn.

    Cheers ; )))


  • Eva,

    I have a very limited hands-on experience with tri-x (in the past developed some TXP @320 asa, xtol 1+1 and time around 10 minutes @ 21°C)… my favourite all around 400asa film in medium format has always been Fuji Neopan…

  • Frank; I’m trying to work out whether I can afford a mint Fuji TX (the Fuji version of the XPan) on sale here; at about 1/3 the price of the Hassie. Only problem is that it has a 90mm on and I’d want to get the 45mm; and they are as scarce as hen’s teeth. I’m interested in experimenting with panoramic format for doco work.

  • Eva
    Might as well weigh in on TriX.

    My best advice is to pick one film/developer combination and work with it for a long time. There is absolutely no milage in skipping around. Reccomended developement times are only a starting point. My developement time for TriX in HC110-dilution B varied by more than a minute when moving from one city to another. I found HC110 to be the most convenient and economical, D76 1-1 is awesome, but has longer developement times and is more expensive to use.

    Traditionally, the perfect negative is one that will produce a print on grade 2 or 2-1/2 paper, with pure blacks, detail in the shadows, nice mid-tone separation, detail in the whites, and sparkling white specular highlights. Ideally, this should all happen at the minimum exposure time required to produce a pure black on un-exposed but developed film (the clear area between the frames is a good place to test)

    A perfectly exposed negative almost seems to print itself.

    Good luck with it all. I hope you become a master printer. If you just plan to scan the negs, I think you would be better off shooting digital unless you can afford a high end scanner.

  • Hey all. Glad you got so much response Eva. I would have put my two cents in but it would not have even been worth 2 cents!

    I have some news. After sitting on my hands for four days I finally have been inducted into a volunteer group working with the birds that need to be cleaned and rehabilitated. It began when I got to Grand Isle and could not find anyone to take my supplies or open a door to helping. After finding the cafe in Ponchatoula and connecting with a woman who knew a woman I spent four days in a hotel in a town so small you could sneeze and someone on the other side said bless you.

    Today got the call and met up with the head of the Clear Water Wild Life something or other group that works with animals in distress such as blown about by a hurricane or needing cleaning due to the oil. I will spend the next two days assisting the group in their staging to deploy to Grand Isle (back I go) and then my job will be cooking for the group at the camp on Grand Isle.

    So excited to finally have this come to fruition. It all began over a week ago when I suddenly decided I needed to help in this catastrophe on the Gulf Coast. Patience has paid off and amazingly I have landed not just with a group of animal rescuers but with a group of Gurdjieff folks. So it is a mix of meditation, spiritual practice (not real familiar with them but similar to the Sufi’s I have followed for so many years), and wild life rehabilitation.

    After signing a paper saying I would not photograph without permission the manager started talking about how good it might be if they had photographs for a book that one of their members is doing on the effort at this center. After talking for a while she said she would have no problem with me taking photos as long as I gave the center credit when published. So slowly getting there.

    I never dreamed it would be so hard to volunteer; when I talked with the manager about it she said the state is wary due to the Katrina issues with people getting into organizations to help and it was strictly to photograph or write about the catastrophe and the effects on the people. I admit I want to photograph (obviously) but truly want to help in any way I can. Thank goodness for the Dalai Lama and his constant source of wisdom on compassion and PATIENCE. It has paid off.

    So will be posting photos on Facebook and possibly Picasa and will link when they are available. So very happy this has finally come to something.

  • ROSS

    I think the panoramic for doc work would be pretty cool. I haven’t played with the Fuji TX or the X-Pan. It really gives a cinematic feel but from what I hear can be a tough format to work in. Does the Fuji also collapse to 35mm? Jordan Roberts up here in Toronto (moving soon to New York as a Magnum in Motion Intern) has done some work with the X-Pan you should speak to him. I am sure he wouldn’t mind talking shop with you on that his e-mail is jordanrobertsphotography@gmail.com

    All the best,


  • Lee,

    I would like to see your pictures, for sure it will be different angle than from the news. Please post a link here if you will have some.


  • Gordon, add to the ‘one film-one developer’ the ‘one camera-one lens’ bit and even ‘one paper-one developer’and you’ve got what I usually do. Unless the situation requires something different. Which happens more often than not.

    I’ve stopped scanning negatives, I make contacts and prints, and will scan some of them for web use. No master at all, but I do have fun being in the darkroom.

    Which grade to print I think depends also on how you want your print to look, personally I prefer a tad more contrast over perfect shadow details just about everywhere, don’t mind blown out parts if it serves the picture language. I often shoot in less than perfect light conditions, trying to make the best out of it.

    The lightsituation/environment of the indicted rolls were more or less these:


    Less than perfect. Overexposing a tad is my choice, I don’t care about seeing the windows in the background (the print looks better than the scan though), but I wanted the face in the lower part to be seen. Also slow shutterspeed and open lens is my choice. Overexposing by one full stop here, added to the already overexposing I do normally, is too much, and NOT my choice, but a mistake on the settings. That is what threw me off and made me panicing (is that a word??).

    Happy to have gotten all the feedback (and having been of help, hi Frank!) :))

    Lee, good for you!

  • Frank;

    The Fuji TX is an XPan. Fuji made the Xpan for Hassie and the TX is their own badged version of exactly the same camera. I am going to use a Holga 120 with pano adapter (for the effect) too, but also want the razor sharp look too. I had looked at the Nikon N70QD; but I think it just crops down a standard single 35mm frame.

    Thanks for the email link. I appreciate it.

    Cheers :-)

  • jenny lynn walker

    DAH: Just finishing the text to accompany the sequence and will then upload.

    Lee: I am so excited for you! It is really wonderful news! Go for it!!!

    Imants: I posted a link to my work on Photoshelter some time ago on here which has images from the protest on it. The sequence I am working on concerns the protestors themselves and the nature of the actual protest (rather than the conflicts that were ignited by opposition to it which made ‘news’) which requires going through images taken over the past 2 months.

  • Ross,
    XPAN and lenses = Lush

    I love the camera, the first time I looked at a roll of velvia that came out of it I was blown away by the sharpness and colour rendition, it blew the socks off my nikons. Only thing is the lenses are a bit slow.

    Small unobtrusive watch out for the vignetting though.


  • Ross forgot to mention…

    have a look at http://www.maxforsythe.com go to “gallery” then “drive by shooting” for interesting hand held use of xpan. his book is also on amazon.



  • Regarding Lee’s problems volunteering for gulf coast cleanup, here is a big part of the explanation (also the answer if you are so inclined).

    In short: “You must first have the 24 Hour Hazwoper Training only offered by private companies. OSHA apparently just makes the guidelines but isn’t in the training business. This class can be taken on-line for around $200.”

    It’s not a disaster, it’s an opportunity to profit off people who care.

  • It has been a while since we talked about Thailand ;-). I’m sure you don’t mind me barging in again Imants… Ater all everyone is complaining about over-coverage of a hot spot and under-coverage of the aftermath… So here is an interesting writing: http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/37771/mutual-acknowledgement-the-only-way-forward. And let’s see what the coverage of the after-spill will be…

  • Hey Michael, “It’s not a disaster, it’s an opportunity to profit off people who care.”

    War, health care, natural disaster, all opportunities for profit. It’s the American way.

  • Gordon, yea, no question.

    Regarding your comment in the other thread, and speaking to general journalistic ethics, not the Mexico essay in particular — yes, sometimes compromises are necessary, but what about when what they want you to see isn’t true? Should the pj show a false reality, just cause the photos are compelling?

  • Michael

    I’m not sure what you mean by a false reality, there are always filters on what and how we shoot, either internal or external. I suppose it must rely on the photographers own ethics. Both sides in a conflict will impose their own filter. It is up to the photographer to work within that. The North Korean essay we saw on Burn earlier is a good case in point. The photographer (sorry, can’t remmember the name), managed to make a strong statement despite the heavy control he was subjected to.

  • Ross: I’ve been working with my XPAN since 2008 (I only can afford B&W film, bathroom developing, contact sheet, home scan, etc… not so many euros). The result is really great, at the beginning was a bit hard to compose the picture in that format/frame, but when I get use to, I really enjoy this camera.
    Is true that the 45mm f4 is a little slowly, but you’ll get to use it…

    Personally I’ve started after seeing an exhibition of Mickael Von Graffrenried in Paris. It blows me!!

    I’ve some shots in my web page, “Portraits” and “Via Piancavallo”, you can take a look…

    There is good web page about that: http://www.panorama-gallery.com


  • Gordon, I’m talking about the journalistic ethics of presenting something that is not true as true in exchange for access. I can’t imagine any circumstance in which that could be considered ethical. I don’t see the North Korean essay as an example of that. Good use of access yes. Propaganda, no.

  • Michael, I agree with you.

  • Xpans… Fun cameras. I usd to own an xpan1 but repllaces it with an xpan2 not so long ago. I actually prefer the 1 as the metering indicators are more like my m6, and I prefer the manual dials for iso and exposurecompensation. Lenses are awesome sharp. Not my every day camera but i see shots that suit the format every day that make me wish I as carrying it. It was great to have when I was working on my Tibet project…

    A couple places to watch for them are http://www.setadelstudios.com based in Toronto and http://www.rangefinderforum.com classifieds.

    Anyways, if you need any help, shout.

  • On a completely different note, I’m probably going to buy a digital recorder soon. I’m looking for the least expensive most professional quality, of course. I’m pretty sure I’ve got it nailed, but thought I ought to run it by you all anyway.

    I figure the Roland R-09HR and the Mic that’s built to go with it. I definitely couldn’t spend any more than that.

    Any comments, suggestions?

  • a civilian-mass audience

    aha…more reading…thanks to MR.VINK

    as LEE said…”Patience has paid off ”

    and the question of the day…from MICHAELW:
    “Should the pj show a false reality, just cause the photos are compelling?”

  • Michael

    I think there is more than one way to skin this cat. You use the access you got, then you deliberately contradict or illustrate the necessary ambiguity of your photos by by layering on a different multi-media tool which can highlight the bias of the first source. Like you provide an interview with an anonymous citizen who describes some impropriety on the part of law enforcement that is layered directly over a photo of the cop cars in the barrio. That way you increase the tension, information, sensibility, empathy and you also multiply the facets of the essay. The more light you put on the subject the better we can see it. And of course, depending on how well he does his job, David just might have to get out of Dodge when his essay is published.


  • rather than the conflicts that were ignited by opposition to it

    I hope you will not pretend at impartial photo-journalism, Jenny…. :-)

  • Kathleen, I brought it up over here in response to Gordon to separate the topic from David’s essay. I don’t think it’s fair to discuss his essay in such harsh terms when we have no idea of his knowledge, thoughts, or motivations. I certainly give him the benefit of the doubt on these ethical issues. What he’s done is not easy. What he’s attempting much less so. I’m very impressed with his effort. But certain aspects of his essay, particularly the access afforded by the police, raise some interesting questions. As for how he might have handled it, I’d suggest possibly by just leaving the police out of the picture. Under no circumstances would you want to give them any reason to suspect you were deceiving them in order to make them look bad. One could leave them out entirely and still present an honest story.

    Regarding the danger, yes, working on anything drug-related in Mexico is unquestionably dangerous, but Mexico is a big place and the level of danger varies significantly by region. The state of Sonora, for example, is not at all like the state of Chihuahua or Sinaloa. Sonora, in fact, may well be the least representative state in Mexico. It’s wealthier and much more ethnically homogeneous, to name probably the two most important differences. I know things must have changed for the worse since I spent a lot of time there 10 to 15 years ago, but I’m guessing many truths remain unchanged. I think one could conceivably photograph the daily dramas without crossing the cartels, police or army, though it’s true that one could always make a wrong turn or simply be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I used to research environmental issues related to NAFTA and spent a lot of time looking at various sites with Mexican activists, and often victims. I was allowed into many homes and saw a lot of that daily drama of which David speaks. Even then, it was very obvious that one simply did not talk about drugs. And I had a few close calls. So although I agree it could well be suicidal to pursue any kind of cartel related story in Mexico, it still might be possible to pursue some other kind of story without actively courting a violent death. Maybe not though. It would certainly be risky.

    (if you’re wondering, no, I wasn’t photographing back then. Wish I could go back in time and smack my old self up against the head with a magic Leica and change all that, but as yet it’s just not possible.)

  • I figure the Roland R-09HR and the Mic that’s built to go with it. I definitely couldn’t spend any more than that.


    The Zoom H4n is in the same price range and comes very well recommended by many
    heading down the multimedia path.

  • a civilian-mass audience

    is that you KATIE, the Street fighter, the Sword Tongue…
    the ONE and Only ONE

    where have you been my darling young one…
    JULIETTE …mama…son…dada…
    are you ready with your landscapes to open my vision


  • a civilian-mass audience

    and now I present …

    damdaradam…We love you

    P.S I know …IMANTS…will say that he doesn’t…and the rest is history…!!!

  • Still on the subject of the inundation of western consumarism and imagery in thai society, which is fast becoming quite a good idea for a fun series, or blurb book (Sincerely, Imants, it all started with your scolding a couple days ago, so thanks):


  • Kathleen, How is everything. Good to have you dropping by.

    yes, your words to David were quite harsh, David R obviously put a lot of work and dedication (maybe not enough extended in time, and spaces, I am not sure) towards his essay, and he certainly didn’t come off as an insincere or clueless witness. Criticism should not equate to dismissal, and assault on the photographer.

    I hate to say it, but just as Imants did with Jenny and me, as we often did with Jim Powers…..Talk is easy. You say you know (about Mexico). We are all taking pictures, and if we know, then, we should show it.

  • Hi Michael

    I likewise respect David´s photography which is why i had no criticism of it at all. Just that it failed to deliver what the title promised. Tom Hyde brought up the geography of the topic and it also occurred to me as well that if the main problem was in Juarez then why is David in Mexico City? of course the drug problem affects all of Mexico in one way or another and has done so for many, many years. It doesn´t matter where David does his work but captions would certainly have helped the viewer get a sense of the scope of this particular drug war which is so much more ruthless, brutal and horrifying than anything ever seen in Mexico before. And that it´s gotten so bad that people have simply become desensitized to it. Abuse, certainly at the deepest most psychic level of the individual condemned to live through these times in this place.

    I think that David could illustrate that the police are part of the problem in some way, however subtle it might be. I don´t think he has to just grin and bear whatever the cops tell him. There are ways to tell the truth. And if there aren´t, then do as Romans do and simply shut up. Just as you say, is it ethical to trade distorted truth for accessibility? As far as leaving the cops out, yes, i agree, that would be better than presenting a distorted truth but the presence of the police certainly jazzes up the essay, lends credibility, guarantees interesting material from a close vantage point (sometimes too close perhaps) and implies that law enforcement is making a huge effort to control what´s clearly out of control.

    I don´t know the answer. David does. And he ain´t saying. Maybe it´s like the pj´s embedding with the military in Iraq/Afghanistan. They could only tell what the military wanted them to tell. So what really is the difference? Most Americans are still blind to the fact that approximately 105,000 civilians perished in Iraq. Why? No media coverage. The Viet Nam war ended only when these photos began to appear in the media. So David´s text that decapitated heads are rock and rolled onto the disco floor doesn´t really register with average person when all we see are police cars, prostitutes and a body on the street. I think there needs to be another layer incorporating the voices of the victims, i.e., the average Mexican to drive home the immensity of the problem. CNN did a great story about Juarez also done via access to the police beat. But the audio really nailed the story. Otherwise it´s as if the victimized society is mute, ball-gagged, held hostage without a sound.

    And by the way, the Mexican cartels are not just making their presence felt in Mexico. They are most decidedly a challenge to authorities and ordinary citizens up and down the Latin American corridor from the producing countries all the way to the US border and beyond. Talk about big, little and in-between dramas, well, there are many. ´nuff said.


  • a civilian-mass audience

    Thank you KATIE…!!!

    Now, I can rest my case…or something like that…

    Antios and Bestos and Abrazos

  • Herve

    Yes, i know something about those ¨quiet little dramas¨ associated with this subject that are definitely dramatic though neither quiet nor little. I wish i could say more but every time i try to couch it in an unassuming bit of text it still seems too dangerous so i will shut up.

    If i was harsh with David it was only about his title. He did not deliver what the title promised though i do understand why. I certainly didn´t have a problem with the photos which were well done. He is an intellectual individual. He knows what the essay lacks and hopefully he will fill in the missing pieces. It´s half done. He´s on the inside so perhaps because he can read between the pixels he thinks everyone else can too. But i don´t think that´s the case.

    Anyway, must go..good to see you Herve..it was a long time that you were away and then i left and well, here we both are. Hope you are doing very well!

    Civilian, my Civilian

    *big smooch*..Juliette graduated..eeeehaaawww! she´s home with me briefly before heading out again. Am enjoying her presence big time and we are off to an art exhibit this afternoon. aaargh..please don´t mention landscapes..i have hit an artistic Berlin wall..just looking at my photos makes me want to retch. Am assuming this is a common ailment and that it will pass (?!?)

    best all

  • Civilian

    Not to worry, Civ´..i have a heart..hard as it may seem. You keep it warm and beating :)


  • a civilian-mass audience

    KATIE…ok…I am not gonna rest my case…cause I don’t wanna rest my case…
    I am so excited that you came back…

    you know that you have a way with writing stuff…
    I was checking Perfect Strangers and Landscapes BUT I see that you are holding back…
    like you are afraid of something…hmmm…I am not a photographer
    one thing I know for sure…that your writing vision is SUPERB !!!

    I am waiting for your book…I can wait…
    And don’t forget : YOU ARE A BURNIAN…
    I LOVE YOU !!!

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Back to my chickens…

    BURNIANS …it’s gonna be a lovely summer…
    keep it up …keep it rolling…we are rocking!!!

    Do I smell Birthday??? hmmm…

  • Civiliancivcivillian

    don´t EVER rest your case..ever, never..especially when it´s because you believe someone, believe in someone or simply believe. And as for what you are saying to me, your words rest lightly on a heavy soul. One reason i am here is to get back to my work as well..being around photography, thinking about photography, being riled up about photography, rejoicing in it, immersed in it…maybe it will clear the funk..i´m trying..but writing..harharhehe, maybe someday i will have something to say that´s more than two paragraphs long but i´m not holding my breath so please don´t you hold yours either :)) love ya ´schnoogums´…and what the hell are you up to? will be back for your answer later..i must be off!

  • Interesting read on how Photographers are being restricted from photographing the oil spill.


  • BP/Gulf…. I have this “roosters are coming home…” feeling about (the lack of) reaction to the spill. Not just from the rest of the world, but within this very country too. I may be wrong.

  • For some here it is time to go beyond the so called traditional PJ way and start embracing contemporary photographic practice with all its bells and whistles.
    Viewing images and essays at face value only leads to misconceptions and audience frustration. Post modern principles and practices are firmly entrenched within the photographic world and along with this comes a new way of reading and understanding. Analysis of the structural/subjective elements employed by a photographer is essential so one can understand what he/she trying to be communicated and to what audience. Then there is the impact of browbeating commercialism as a visual competitor……….
    Think beyond the rectangles you see on the screen

  • The biggest danger is bringing ones excess baggage to the images……….

  • something which has struck me about the last two essays is the vastly differing approach, and reflected intention of the photographers.

    i think that any change, if at all possible, comes through the photographer more than the images.. the photographers own actions.. whether it be bleesdale sending his book to ‘the powers that be’ or natchwey accepting and passing on donations to individual people in suffering he has encountered.

    emily seems to be working hard to gain the funding to educate and enlighten people to represent themselves, and fully understand the representations they produce..
    david is employing the ‘power of the still image’ in the hope that there will be an effect drawn from within us as viewers.. or is he?

    emilys work – as a by product of her greater intentions – shines with love, dedication, patience and thoughtfull appreciation of the subjects.
    genuine moments are caught rather than editorial page fillers being saught.

    davids work drags us into the life of someone we do not know – with ambiguous uncaptioned images used in an editorial way.. although the texts focus seems more far reaching than the photos.. which is a shame.. a longer edit of the photos could heal that..
    they hold some power as a series yet leave me feeling rather cold and slightly ambivient.. not to say i disbelieve the truth in what he is trying to portray, yet somehow the solidity of that truth is diminished by the cliche within the photographs and the story, which is no doubt over simplified.

    2 different photographers born the same year who have an utterly opposing spin on story telling.. and helping and educating and feeling..
    to me the drugs essey fails in all the places where emilies work graciously succeeds.

    i think davids skill as a negotiator of access, his knowledge of technique and post processing is top level.. there are some telling images.. composed mysery, pain and suffering… as with his TB work in africa..
    yet.. in his tb piece, have i not seen a similar photo shot through an x-ray elsewhere?
    maybe even on this site?
    and then the awards.. there are more than twice the award ‘aknowledgements’ than there are stories.. it makes me wonder about motivation.. why would a photographer seemingly seek out more awards than stories..? than exhibitions.. ?

    being a jack-of-all-sorrows and contriving to collect as many accolades as possible seems to be the way forward in the minds of many young photographers..

    to me the piece david has created is excellent photographically.. execution and then publication followed by award collecting by-numbers..

    however – the piece emily has created breaths soul..

    i think emily is changing the world through herself and her actions.. her interactions, and i fear that the biggest change david is effecting is to his own career and, it seems, at the risk of his life..


    briefly on the cuban essay as well..
    i loved it.. i loved it like i love all my guilty pleasures.. the occassional 10CC love song.. a bit of old school rap..
    dig that vibe.

  • brother Bowen ;)))

    agree 100%!….funny, i was going to write something very similar tomorrow, so no need for me to add to that :))))))….have no time now to write at burn much, so busy busy…

    by the way, i am ALWAYS disillusioned by the photoworld’s need for awards…and for award accumulation…i happily have only every applied for one ‘award’ in photography (all other award competitions i never enter) and that is related to Road Trips…..it makes me depressed that we live in a swelter of award gathering….silly really…



    wanted to share this video….from Adam Smith’s exhibition…


    will someday post pictures from Marinka’s show…

    ok, gotta fly…much to do…


  • David photographers are just catching up to an approach that has been going on for centuries in one form or another ………………..

  • Bob Black, David Bowen

    First of all, thanks for the link Bob. Good to see photographs in frames rather than push-pinned into the walls. ‘t’sall about RESPECT doncha know.

    Great post, and food for thought David, an interesting juxtaposition by photographers from the same generation, though I think in some ways you are comparing apples and ham sandwiches.

    As far as award collecting goes, I can hear what you are saying. I have belonged to a proffesional association for 25 years, though this year let my membership lapse. I never could stomach the “print salon”, a competition through which one accumulated points to earn a “craftsman, or, finally, a Master” designation.
    On the other hand, I recognise and appreciate that the awards, the letters after your name, the list of publications etc etc open doors, gain commissions, lend credibility and advance ones’ career and bottom line. Just never did like playing the game, to my detriment.

    BTW David B, spent some time with “wasted”. Great photos, but as an old fogey gotta say, what are them young people comin’ too? It’s a fucked up hedonistic world. I hate techno pop.

  • Latest news, sold my last medium format film camera system, a Pentax 645 with 4 lenses for $450. Bought a Canon 35mm f2 with the proceeds.


    I recently purchased the ZOOM H4N. I am collecting audio for a MM I am putting together. I haven’t downloaded the audio yet, but the quality I can hear through headphones is excellent. Will let you know how it turns out.


  • I think David R’s work and Emily’s are 2 different things, and find unfair to pounce on one while making the other a heroine, within the same argument, that is, one vs the other. Or we must start judging all essays presented on BURN, against Emily’s dedication and love.

    btw, I am confused, I thought she had some shots, but that most in her essay were by the kids. yes? No?

  • This is a bit of a long shot but I’m trying to get in contact with David. I’m leaving in a couple of days to ride my motorcycle around Canada for about 3 months. I’m dipping down to NYC to see the Bresson show and then head back across the country and into the Yukon. I’m travelling with another friend who is also a young photographer, I’m 22 and she is 20. It would be fantastic to meet David and any other photographers while we are in NY, also if anyone on here had room on a floor for us to crash that would be fantastic.

  • About awards, a sincere question from me: why are there so many in the photographic field?

    Also, has a photographer ever refused one, let’s say recently (like in the last 40 years)?

  • Herve

    I’ve used a Zoomh4 to record live music. Great quality.

  • Thanks everyone with all the help about the XPan. I’ll reply to everything tomorrow. I’m a bit snowed under til then…

    Thanks again Ross

  • David B, very interesting point.. and you’ve nailed down something that was floating in my brain but couldn’t find its way into words..

    The other David, AH that is, one of the best things that are out there in this world are friends. The true ones. Hope all is fine..

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Cycles,bicycles and motorcycles…
    life goes on
    we got to move on.
    Some will go west
    anguish…no rest.
    Some will go east
    looking for peace…

    to be continued…

    KATIE FONSECA…you are holding the answers…I LOVE YOU
    if there is a vision…then, there is a way.
    and street fighters always find their way…I BELIEVE

    P.S hmmm…do baby chickens fart…???
    ok, back to our regular program

  • P.S hmmm…do baby chickens fart…???..only when they wear their civi dress feathers, egg laying which is a military operation all farting is banned

  • top secret stuff this laying business……… Why?….. because we still don’t know what came first

  • a civilian-mass audience

    “Think beyond the rectangles you see on the screen”

    only when they wear their civi dress feathers,oil drilling which is a military operation
    all spilling is banned


  • herve

    the kids photos are on the linked site she has provided and the story here contains her own work.. award winning, of course :ø)

    gordon, eva, herve, bobus..
    and all.. apologies for a late night vent last night.. will leave my reasons clouded and carry on i think :ø)

    perhaps you are right and in comparing the work of the two i am producing an unfair juxtaposition, yet i do see similarities in wanting to tell a story.. and i think back to alejandro, last years EPF grant beneficiary who also had a story to tell.

    part of the problem for me is that competitions, with few exceptions, tend to highlight work which is average.. by it’s nature chosen by commitee.. safe bets.. and this produces a continuing mundaine and predictable path for photography in general to follow.. photographers emulating the ‘winners’.. ticking boxes.. production line snappers.. i wonder how many EPF applications this year were large format, long exposure creations?

    colour paletts and even aestethics have become cliched.. repeating themselves with different subjects and the same framing. the major force in fighting these cliches is in the photographers intention and place next to the subject. otherwise is it not just a case of mimiking a successfull framing of a suitable subject, picking up gongs and paying the rent?
    i could not begin to count the number of photographs i have seen over the past years which are oddly remenisent of this – http://museum.icp.org/museum/exhibitions/nachtwey/images/96-8-33_7.jpg – and it’s varient with the subject looking into camera.

    alejandro being awarded the EPF by the people who awarded it is an exception and an appreciation of the changing nature of documentary and perhaps journalistic work.. emily being recognised with an award recently is another exception – for a set of photos basically concieved from a situation which she has created (through workshops), while also standing as an introduction to a more journalistic story..

    emily and alejandro stand as artists working in the documentary field which, whether it seems fair or not, seems to relegate david r’s work to that of a hack.. despite the beautiful images and post processing it feels somewhat hollow.. more death, suffering and another story of pain which is told in by-the-numbers fashion.. a well trodden path which seems to advance neither photography as a language nor the plight of the subjects, yet which wins accolade and reward…

    so many awards? hmm.. money..
    so many wars? hmm.. money..
    the cogs and wheels of capitalism are lubricated with blood as money..
    from drug to arms dealers, and from PJ’s to NGO’s..

    that is to say – good work is being done, yet a more critical eye is needed when a refugee or famine victim cannot get a tent without an NGOs branding blaized accross it and dozens of pj’s fly in to save the day, taking the same photos as each other, getting 50usd a snap and picking up a few awards into the bargain.. while volunteer workers risk their lives for little praise.. and one individuals kindness is lost to anothers career path.

    it is a strange time when i can spend a month in croatia with landmine clearence workers and the red cross, (as i did last year), and win awards and money depending on the angle i choose, while 20% of them are killed every year in obscurity.

    david r shows us what is wrong – however in his story who is doing the good work? he stands in judgement on what basis?..
    where are the non-police.. community workers.. people beyond the reach of traditional media working for no reward? what do the photos tell us about mexico, compared to what they tell us about the photographers intentions when considered alongside his clear ambitions?

    the twist at the end of the tail is that in many pj’s work, they feature as the only ones doing any good.. the soul saviours and brave crusaders.
    exceptions abound of course and the greatest photographers find the people struggling through and tell us about them, as well as the problem itself.. classic examples being PJG focusing on the vietnamese.. JN showing us the one armed, one legged man fighting to keep his family together through adversary..
    PJG and JN are not the heros of their own orchestrated story, rather they find the people living the effects and let them speak.. lend them a voice through their work.. our own mr. vink, with his quite extraordinary dedication to long term coverage of land issues.. dah spending 30 years before producing a book of his findings regarding spanish colonialism..

    smart photography just isn’t enough..

    these days the population and community of a city or country have the inside edge AND the ability if guided to tell us about it.. .. and emily reaslizes that point very well.. as did andy levin with his workshops for haitians.-.- and on and on.. some are hitting a mark which is enabling at the same time as reporting.

    from the last century, photography seems to have a preoccupation with focusing morbidly on our base insticts and failings, mostly documented by middleclass people from the minority world.. the west… does this still need to be rewarded? hasn’t photography, and havn’t photographers, now evolved into much more complex animals capable of much greater deeds than simply recording and reporting what is percieved?
    war goes on.. the wheels on the bus go round and round.. perpetually reporting such in a traditional way is hack work, regardless of a talent for aesthetics or post processing, unless there is a deeper more personal story to tell.. and a clearer well defined intention to help beyond the act of bending our first finger and squinting.

    this century we have the extraordinary and exciting stage in photography whereby everyone and anyone has the potential to document and tap into their own culture and place within it.
    emily has tapped into that and as her initiative spreads as she hopes it shall it brings with it a fresh opportunity to look again at the world through eyes more accustomed to the light of a peoples own plight..

    i do like david r’s talent for photography.. yet perhaps story telling in the fashion of rio’s ‘city of god’ holds more validity and poigniency in this day and age..

    i did not mean to elevate emily – rather just compare the approaches of two digital age photographers hitting 30 years old.. in the as yet undefined latest and greatest movement in photography, possibilities abound.. it certainly is late for modernism.

    and i apologise to david r for any unintended disrespect.. there is a clear compassion and dedication way beyond that of most photographers and i’m sorry to have vented during his feature.. it could have been another story and photographer so easily.

    websites loaded with awards more than work warp into corperate ventures..


  • civi – i know i fart.. sometimes, and possibly today and last night, from my brain.
    gordon – thanks for looking.. wasted.. survived.. no rewards beyond the seeing and it’s further evolution.. always wanted to explore youth culture in russia.. sober and clean from here on in, hmmmm, will the photography suffer for it?.

  • a civilian-mass audience

    DAVIDB…give me few hours…I got to go through(read) …your brain farting…:)))


  • it may not be worth the investment of time civi..
    i think i’ve said it before..
    back in 1924

    ever decreasing circles culminating in the ‘finding’ of my own point.

    i hope.

  • Regarding the digital audio recorders, yes, I am still considering the Zoom H4N, which does seem to be the consensus choice. It’s biggest advantages, as far as I can tell, are its xlr inputs with phantom power and four channel recording capabilities. I see the XLR inputs as a great advantage because of the flexibility they give to using better quality mics. Don’t really care about 4 channel recording, though it’s always nice to have higher end features than you may find a use for someday, something involving music, for example.

    The reason I’m leaning towards the Roland R-09 is mainly because of its looks. The Zoom is big and gaudy and obvious. The R-09 easily rides in a shirt pocket, is black and unobtrusive. At a glance, most people would mistake it for an mp3 player. Of course sound quality matters first and foremost. All the reviews are good on the Zoom, though some do question the quality of the XLR inputs, which could negate its biggest advantage. I regularly use an R-09 and am comfortable with its quality. Maybe it’s that comfort that tips the scales. No, I think discreet matters more.

  • David Bowen, wow, thanks. You should consider cleaning that up a bit and publishing.

  • michael..
    i do wish i were more concise..

    ‘David photographers are just catching up to an approach that has been going on for centuries in one form or another ‘

    you make me think of the origins of story telling in music.. folk music through to rap.. as a means of passing on heritage, realtive wisdom and culture..
    and cave drawings through to painting.. indications of where to hunt.. hints at who ‘we’ are.
    cheers for that.

    photography at a community level has great potential to step into that role


    i have a movie in final cut pro..

    the sequence settings are 1280 by 1080 DVCPRO HD 1080i60 (16:9) frame size
    and the quicktime movie output size (and canvas of the content photos) is 1920 x 1080 letterbox H.264 compression…

    i need to resize to

    1024 x 768 and need to preserve the letterbox format..

    anyone know what i am talking about, as i really don’t.
    i have saved off the work successfully as a letterbox, 1924 by 1080 quicktime movie H.264 compression.. can i resize this saved off QT movie?

    also – i am trying, within final cut pro, to just resave the project at the size i need – make a new quicktime movie at 1024 x 768 H.264 but it is not offering me the option to do so…
    i know that this is 4:3 size.. but i know virtually nothing else regarding how to resize..

    any help would be grand..

  • actually – may have sorted it.. given the long time to save off the movie though.. a few hours.. any pointers still helpfull

  • david bowen. skype me and i will walk you through it.



    i will be seeing both of you soonest….and putting your expertise to work….David, please call as soon as you get in…Michael, please note my comment to David Rochkind under his essay…

  • DAH, are you referring to me when you say Michael? I saw the comment to David R, not sure how it relates to me? Do you think my comments were out of line? Maybe a bit around the edges, but I’m comfortable with the main point about propaganda. Of course I agree that Burn should be considered a top quality publication and treated with appropriate respect. Paying for content will probably help. Shouldn’t matter, I would agree, but human nature is involved. And I agree that David R. handled the criticism well, at least publicly. And if there’s anything I can do to help, I think you know I am eager. And if you’re talking to one of the other Michaels, I slink away and await the inevitable jibe from Imants, which I will undoubtedly fail to get. Regards…

  • To all those who use and appreciate the trad darkroom, eva,john g, thodoris, david ah, david b and the many others this is worth a listen/look




  • a civilian-mass audience

    “There is a danger when I speak in English that you will get misunderstanding, because I use the wrong word. Sometimes I confuse the words pessimism and optimism.”

    Tenzin Gyatso, The 14th Dalai Lama (Dalai Lama, b.1935)

    your malaka* civi :)))

    *malaka as a friend …hiiiiiiiiiiiii

  • too many davids..guessing at david r.

    john g – superb stuff.. running to pick up top cat now.. will seek you later or tomorrow for a chat..

  • a civilian-mass audience

    nice find from AITKEN…aka IAN

    MICHAEL…either way, you cool!!!

  • a civilian-mass audience

    DB…too many civilians…MASS
    ok, hugs to TOR CAPA and BEATE

    off…to my chickens


    yes, i was referring to you and i wanted you to see my comment under the Rochkind essay because i essentially agree with you…i do not think you are ever “out of line”…i do think that to do a story like this one must gain access somehow, but it is always an issue when one is embedded one way or another…i think it is incumbent on any photographer doing this type of work to make sure that being embedded does not amount to collusion….this is of course what all of the press faced during the Iraq invasion and other stories where in order to make photographs at all, photographers simply needed access any way they could get it..thank you for pointing out the dangers therein and a call for responsibility on this kind of coverage….

    cheers, david

  • ian, thank you!

  • jenny lynn walker

    DAH: Hoping you received my essay on the Bangkok protest (30 images)?

  • Olympus LS-10 seems to be a viable alternative for field recording.
    It sits in a price sweet spot between the H2 and H4n. It seems to
    have some durability and lots of options for space.

  • JENNY…

    just checked Submissions on Burn and see nothing from you….???

  • Jenny, click below on submissions to properly submit..:)


    the twist at the end of the tail is that in many pj’s work, they feature as the only ones doing any good.. the soul saviours and brave crusaders.
    IMO, it is a myopic view, David. It’s only within that circle of people who have a very close relationship to photography and PJ work (as us in BURN, for ex., or Lightstalkers, just to stay on the net) who do this, and in many ways, the praise happens because of a few true Greats (like Nachtwey) who gave the PJ/docu profession its “lettres de Noblesse”. So, that praise does kinda reverbarate on anyone doing “concerned” PJ.

    Most people look at the pictures, and can’t care less who made them, even if they “wow!”I certainly did not until I really picked up on Photography just 5 years ago.

    On the subject of “pretty” pictures in crisis/conflict zones, I must say that more and more often, I find many people are getting critical of them, and sense the careering behind the “concernedness”. This was when I would send or show them work with a note that I thought it was excellent. So, that got me thinking…

  • DAH ( to, and under david Rochind essay):
    “…..I am very impressed with your work…if i was not, i would not have published it…”

    I hope sincerely you can feature work you are not totally impressed with! My old teacher, Henri Langlois, of French Cinematheque fame, used to say: “it’s not enough to save the good movies from oblivion, you must save the bad ones too”.

    PS: I admit this is not a totally disinterested comment! :-))))

  • jenny lynn walker

    DAH/Panos: I submitted it 12 hours ago directly onto the Burn submissions page and sent a backup to david@davidalanharvey.com so I hope that not both of them have gone astray.

  • Jenny, when you sent to SUBMISSIONS, did you get a confirming e-mail right back? If not, maybe it glitched away. I did not know that adress for David, but he replied to the mail I sent at;

  • Herve.. Exactly… If submitted right u always get a confirmation email..
    Jenny why don’t u link it here in Burn?
    Big hug

  • Really? Can’t ever remember getting confirmation email. But then, it’s been awhile.


    sending pictures to my email account will only have me telling you to please send to submissions only…we have a solid system in place for submissions and my private email is not part of that system…i will never see pictures coming to my email….Herve is correct, if you do not receive a confirming reply back, then you are doing something wrong..i do not think there is anything wrong at this end..we receive about 200 submissions per week with no other complaints…after all, you are simply sending a link….

    Herve, i often publish work which is not necessarily my cup of tea, but which may represent a genre or is experimental in nature or just piques my interest in some way…

    cheers, david

  • Man the plot thickens. Think this group I am with is not connected. Have made another connection though and will work it this weekend. Who would have thought it would be so hard to volunteer to help. Help do anything….like cook, move supplies, etc. I want to say very discouraging but I am not. It has really been an adventure and I have met someone who lives on Lake Pontchartrain and has invited me out this weekend and will take me out to shoot. And fish. So life goes on. Not much photo taking. This is weird. I took some of the raccoons around here but I don’t do much with those kind of photos.

    Update later.

  • Tom..:)
    absolutely really.. give it a try.. Send something, anything right now..
    Your “anything” is usually great
    big hug

  • Although… If Jenny has problem to submit from Thailand..
    Maybe this has to do with censorship.. ??!!
    I said maybe.. I never been in Thailand .. So it’s a wild guess..
    One thing I can guarantee is that u can’t surf porn websites from
    a hotel in Istanbul.. But then again maybe because my hotel was next to
    the Mosque.. ( laughing.. U know I don’t watch porn.. U know I’m classy..;)

  • LEE…

    good on you for rolling up your sleeves….

    cheers, david

  • Herve, i often publish work which is not necessarily my cup of tea, but which may represent a genre or is experimental in nature or just piques my interest in some way…

    I know, David, as you know your sense of humour is always required, when I am in the same “room”! ;-)

  • No, Panos. If there was censoring, she would not be able to open BURN. But you have a point, technically. Many times, I was not able to post anything on BURN while in Thailand.

  • Many times, I was not able to post anything on BURN while in Thailand…………. Common Herve Mick posts from Bullamakenka and uses donkey ears as his satellite connection and still manages to burn ears here.

  • Anyway for those interested in losing 7 odd minutes of their lives here is a etrouko the series, I -III http://www.etrouko.com.au/projectetrouko.htm

  • Imants :-)))…. you know me, I am not the kind to not want to post something I just wrote on BURN!

  • Cool “stuff”, Imants.

    addition to “East meets West” in Thailand:


  • Imants;

    It wasn’t 7 lost minutes at all! Every time I look at your work I’m always left guessing. I know I could never produce work like that, but do appreciate the way your work pushes my visual boundaries around a bit. :-)

  • Heve remands me of a bunch of horses I saw out the back of nowhere in a lunar landscape that had foul weather blankets on with Caterpillar in large bright yellow letters ( bulldozer company)

  • رجل ضائع
    “A lost man”

    The film was inspired by the life of the French photographer Antoine D’Agata.



  • Imants, very skillful. Thanks. I can tell repeated viewings would be rewarding.

  • guess who is coming to grecolandia tomorrow for a concert…!!?

  • Yoko sounds like a dying cat.

  • Lennon sounds like a bleating lamb

  • Imants

    OK, I’ve invested my seven minutes. Now I have just invested another thirty in a comment, only to loose it, but I’m pressing on, although this will be the Readers Digest version.

    First of all, thankyou for posting the link. It is always a brave thing just to throw things out there to see what the reaction is.

    After the seven minutes, you drew raised eyebrows, and a wow from me. The raised eyebrows, because I have to admit I’ve never taken you very seriously before, and the wow, because I loved the presentation. You are onto something.

    I am mostly interested in commenting on your use of music. Good choice. I like the music. I particularly like the way you have paced the presentation to the music, and especially the punctuation with the chimes at the end. Wonderfully done. Some of the other music in your past links was a bit industrial strengh. I felt as if I was beaten over the head with “heavy, deep, groovy-cool”.

    Music with dance, theatre, storytelling, cinema, slide shows, and now, multi-media on the small screen on the internet, is a powerful combination. Music reaches down your throat and grabs your soul. Want tears at a wedding, funeral, or just at a slide show of your kids portrait? just play this.


    I’d love to view your stuff full screen. Have I missed how to do that?

  • Ka danks guys………

  • Not missed, isn’t available full screen…… all my work even in exhibitions is only 22 (8 and a half”) cm max longest size in the book they are 21cm. This is how I work small quiet stuff…… laughing

  • Imants

    If thats as big as it gets, I must say for me it’s too small, too dark, and the images bleed into the black background. At least a quiet stroke to define the edges would help.

  • Imants, OK, there already is a quiet stroke, maybe a slightly louder stroke would help. On my 17″ laptop it is barely visible.

  • Civilian

    I totally agree, when there is vision there is a way..when the vision hides, fades, evaporates, there is panic, there is despair, there is loathing.

    Love ya bro-sis..whatever your gender..if you were a teddybear, you´d be sitting on my pillow every night when i cash in my tips, fold up my apron and turn out the lights. Just knowing your here, it keeps me coming back.

    ur stfghtr

  • er..that would be ´you´re´ not your..i do know the difference

  • Imants

    I posted these you tube links in David R´s essay. They are three videos from a movie called ¨Ciudades Oscuras¨from 2002. I thought of you as i watched them and so recommended them to you as well. But in case you don´t see my post there, here they are..this is an amazing movie. I am trying to get it. It´s in Spanish but you hardly need voice at all..just the music and the photography. Hope you like them…





  • DAH

    Listening to a friend
    Life decisions
    Great moments flew by
    begging for status quo
    From this comes peace

    for everything there is a season..peace to you.

  • Gordon Bigger files mean less people can access, works fine on my 8″ laptop. Mu benchmark is a person in the back waters of Latgele, if the file is not too big for them then that is the size I present

    Thanks Kathleen but it is all a bit too Sid Vicious for my taste much prefer this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmigNw4C9eI&feature=related

  • Gordon if you want big and splashy go to Walmart, see Disney and co etc………. edges would dismantle the work

  • Imants

    That was a little One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest for me..this one on the other hand was just my speed:


    made me nostalgic for the old Fernand Leger and Hans Richter films..loved the music and the inevitability. it also made me laugh :)

    thanks for turning me on to this guy!


  • Imants.

    Not asking for big and splashy, just a better look. Bigger is not automatically better, or worse, but neither is smaller more precious. Size, and the scale of the work determines viewing distance. Walmart and Disney?

  • That’s what they are dark……. don’t see why I have to change because you can’t cope, don’t like it then go on with something else,…….if you want a personal piece send me a cheque.

  • second thought forget the cheque and thanks for the insult quote. ..’because I have to admit I’ve never taken you very seriously before” I was going to let it pass decided against it.

  • Imants

    Honestly, I’m sorry if I offended you. I truly meant the whole comment as a compliment. I do like the piece and was only trying to offer some constructive feedback.
    In the past I’ve not been able to get into what you do, now I am beginning to get it. OK?


  • a civilian-mass audience

    “Love involves a peculiar unfathomable combination of understanding and misunderstanding”
    Diane Arbus (American Photographer, 1923-1971)

    come on…today is a day to celebrate !!!

    IMANTS…myetrouko…that’s for you…I can see you …painting your masterpiece!!!

    When I Paint My Masterpiece

    Oh, the streets of Rome are filled with rubble
    Ancient footprints are everywhere
    You can almost think that you’re seein’ double
    On a cold, dark night on the Spanish Stairs
    Got to hurry on back to my hotel room
    Where I’ve got me a date with Botticelli’s niece
    She promised that she’d be right there with me
    When I paint my masterpiece

    Oh, the hours I’ve spent inside the Coliseum
    Dodging lions and wastin’ time
    Oh, those mighty kings of the jungle, I could hardly stand to see ’em
    Yes, it sure has been a long, hard climb
    Train wheels runnin’ through the back of my memory
    When I ran on the hilltop following a pack of wild geese
    Someday, everything is gonna be smooth like a rhapsody
    When I paint my masterpiece

    Sailin’ round the world in a dirty gondola
    Oh, to be back in the land of Coca-Cola!

    I left Rome and landed in Brussels
    On a plane ride so bumpy that I almost cried
    Clergymen in uniform and young girls pullin’ muscles
    Everyone was there to greet me when I stepped inside
    Newspapermen eating candy
    Had to be held down by big police
    Someday, everything is gonna be diff’rent
    When I paint my masterpiece

    BOBBY DYLAN is coming to town…I can feel it

    damnit…I can’t focus today…

    teddybear??? aha…sure…aha:)))

    GORDON…say hi to your mother..maybe she can facebook …KATIEE’s mama or maybe e-mail…
    MR.HARVEY’S mama…I can play cards too…
    ahhhh…yes, when there is vision …there is a way…

  • jenny lynn walker

    DAH: I did receive an email from Burn magazine (“site@burnmagazine.org”) to my personal email address after I sent in the submission – ie an automatic confirmation message that is dated May 28, 2010. Any suggestions?! What to do now?! This is verging on the humourous if I hadn’t broken my proverbial back to get it to you. Whether it sees the light of day on Burn or not, it was challenging to cut down the images from 40 to 30 so quickly so thank you!!!

    What not to love?! : )

  • jenny lynn walker

    KathleenF/DAH: “for everything there is a season”! How true is that? But then for some things, the season is every single day or sometimes never…

  • jenny lynn walker

    Re: Thailand

    Just read a blog piece in the Economist which I wasn’t keen on but i’d love to share one of comments under it written by someone here in Thailand presumably along the lines of: “Thailand will only be saved when the likes of Abhisit and Thaksin wai to each other on a free television” (meaning the need for communication and not fighting to solve the problem plus a free press in Thailand). There’s a few other things I’d add to the list but as an outsider, perhaps that’s not really my business.


  • Civilian

    what a nice quote..i was gonna say something at the time but thought no..the tension between the two was so personal and exquisite that it should hang in the Burn air to ripen and resolve itself..and it did..it matured into that lovely quote by Diane Arbus, the queen of understanding/misunderstanding not to mention tension. Not to mention tension. heh. had to say it twice, felt good rolling off the tongue.

    Imants and Gordon

    you´re styles are 180 degrees apart and that´s what makes Burn fabulous. That the two of you should achieve understanding and mutual appreciation for what both of you individually and uniquely offer to this unruly mob of Burnians would/will be sublime. Gordon, you´re a true gentleman. Imants, you´re a true genius.


    Alas, you are sooo right..sometimes the season never arrives or has already passed or indeed is every single day. I read the other day that the average adult laughs ten times a day. I marveled, damn, i don´t laugh that much! So i decided to up my quotient starting right that minute. For laughter, every day is the season. Thanks for your words :)

    best and off for the day..


  • Quote from a Imants “time is the real enemy so we are better off fighting amongst ourselves ………… laughing”


    Quote from Imants

    “time is the real enemy so we are better off fighting amongst ourselves”

    as i told you the other day, that is my favorite Burn quote….funny, true


    the average adult only laughs ten times per day?? really? i am way way above average in that case….if a room full of people is not laughing, then i make sure they do…otherwise, what is the point?

  • a civilian-mass audience

    “I am in 21hours into 21 days cleanse…”

    We will be next to you…we will support you in any way possible…
    I promise …I will not talk about souvlakia,baklavades,tiropites,lambs and chickens…
    wines…yellow waters…

    we will BURN with you…oime…!!!:)))

  • a civilian-mass audience


    you really bring BURN and the BURNIANS in a different level…
    you rock my KATIE…rock…love and rock…hiiiiiiiiii…
    i like rolling my tongue too …rocklove …
    you are special…


    thanks for the photos…

    BRAVO BURNIANS and YOU my BURNIAN LADIES…you are smart,strong and sexy…

    ok ,enough said…I am going to buy some cranberries …
    CLEAR VIVA !!!

  • Well, DAH, I try to make you laugh many times on BURN, last yesterday, and at my expense too, and I often get a serious answer from you…. ;-)

    I remember that study about laughing, it also said that americans are at the bottom of the list for daily laughters, which I believe totally. To be a good laugher, you must be abe to laugh at yourself copiously before anyone else, and feel secure enough (about yourself, except if you are a jew, i hear woody allen behind me, ahahha)) to do it.

  • CIVI

    We will be next to you…we will support you in any way possible…
    I promise …I will not talk about souvlakia,baklavades,tiropites,lambs and chickens…
    wines…yellow waters…

    I think you shouldnt talk about these in general. some of us miss home food. ;)

  • BTW, are photographers good laughers? I mean, not just having a sense of humour to distill, but laughing. as public personas, many sound a bit serious (Parr) or oldsy fartsy (HCB). Peress doesn’t strike me as the laughing type.
    Weirdly, in the pix people post here from parties and gatherings, Nachtwey often is snapped laughing heartily. So:

    David, you know a few, which ones you know can engulf a room with their own laughter (Gilden?) just about any time they enter that (any) room?

  • ALL: :)))

    Excuse the Family Promotion, but I wanted to share with you about the Award and Publication of Marina’s Work:

    The NEW Special Annual Portfolio Edition of B/W Magazine (Black & White) has been published and is now available in bookstores/newstands/fine art places. Marina’s work for Versts has been awarded a Gold Medal/Excellence Award for her work and has received 4-page spread in the front of the magazine. Unfortunately, the images/magazines is not available on line, but you can purchase the magazine throughout the US, Canada and Europe (Asia i believe as well). For those, locally, who haven’t seen her CONTACT show, this spread will give you an taste of what her show looks like. The B/W publication looks great and is a real honor and I’m very very happy and incredibly proud of her! If you are not familiar with B/W magazine, here is a link to their home page:


    So, if you want to see Marinka’s work, have a look, she’s right in the beginning with the Excellence Award Winners.

    Other Burn winners include Hillary Atiyeh, whose essay “In Hot Water” was published her on May 16, 2009 https://www.burnmagazine.org/photographs/2009/02/hot-springs-by-hillary-atiyeh/

    and former student of David’s and founder of Autin Photography Center David Lykes Keenan was also an award Winner! :))

    and Lastly, Brennan O’Connor, whose story ‘On the Run’ was published her in Burn has had the same story published in WALRUS magazine here in Canada (Walrus is canada’s equivalent to the New Yorker/New Republic/Harpers)…..




    and lastly:

    DAVID (AH) :))))))…so happy about your cleansing…that’s great…YOU DESERVE THE REST AND VIGOR AND HEALTH! :)))…we need u around for a long time….WILL CALL U TOMORROW…today, out all day running

    hugs all


    Brennan O’Connor “On the Run”



    can you release it please :))

    big hugs

  • Former bandmate Emma with her new band, Joy Kills Sorrow.

    “We will have our day in the sun. There will be forgivness, not just for some, for everyone”

  • ok, here is the note in parts :)))

    ALL: :)))

    Excuse the Family Promotion, but I wanted to share with you about the Award and Publication of Marina’s Work:

    The NEW Special Annual Portfolio Edition of B/W Magazine (Black & White) has been published and is now available in bookstores/newstands/fine art places. Marina’s work for Versts has been awarded a Gold Medal/Excellence Award for her work and has received 4-page spread in the front of the magazine. Unfortunately, the images/magazines is not available on line, but you can purchase the magazine throughout the US, Canada and Europe (Asia i believe as well). For those, locally, who haven’t seen her CONTACT show, this spread will give you an taste of what her show looks like. The B/W publication looks great and is a real honor and I’m very very happy and incredibly proud of her! If you are not familiar with B/W magazine, here is a link to their home page:


    I am so happy and proud of Marina and the edition and the spread look great….hope you all have a chance to look at or purchase the Magazine :)))


  • I also want to CONGRATULATE TWO BURNIANS whose work was also given awards and published in this special edition:

    Congratulations Hillary Atiyeh and David Lykes Keenan…Hillary’s essay “In Hot Water” was published her on May 16, 2009 https://www.burnmagazine.org/photographs/2009/02/hot-springs-by-hillary-atiyeh/ her portfolio was also given an award…

    Daivd Keenan work was shown on Road Trip when he’d taken a workshop with David in October of 2008. David is also the founder of the Austin Photography Center David Lykes Keenan was also an award Winner! :)) David’s essay (about self-discovery in New York) was my personal favorite of that workshop…which included some known burnians like Kyung-hee :)))

    congrats guys

  • BOB…

    trying to figure out how to release your comment…indeed, it is in spam…how does that happen? give me a few minutes


    most of my laughter certainly does come from laughing at myself…

  • and LAST, but not least ;)) )…

    Burnian Brennan O’Connor, whose story ‘On the Run’ was published here in Burn has had the same story published in WALRUS magazine here in Canada (Walrus is canada’s equivalent to the New Yorker/New Republic/Harpers)…..it’s a great honor for Brennan and a great great magazine as well! :))

    the essay at burn:


    the link for Walrus:


    and finally :

    DAVID (AH) :))))))…so happy about your cleansing…that’s great…YOU DESERVE THE REST AND VIGOR AND HEALTH! :)))…we need u around for a long time….WILL CALL U TOMORROW…today, out all day running

    hugs all

  • DAVID :))))

    no worries, i just re-posted everything here in parts

    GREAT JOB BURN PEOPLE! :)))))))))

    DAVID, will call u tomorrow…running

    big hugs :))


  • BOB…

    all fixed..your comments now show up in the time slot in which you posted…

  • jenny lynn walker

    DAH: Thank the Lord! : )

    Kathleen: I can personally vouch for DAHs ability to make a whole room of people laugh and ignite a party at the same time although I can only count on two fingers the times I have actually seen him outside of a workshop and in such circumstances. Circumstances I cannot forget! At a party in Perpignan where he stripped off all his clothes down to his underpants to jump in a jaccuzi – he was the first in. Not that seeing him in his under garments made me laugh, no, it was just the whole scenario, the party, the speed of launching into the pool, everything. Just the memory of the whole occasion makes me laugh!

    Laughter IS the best medicine… commit to ‘being happy’ – especially because committing to being miserable isnt a bundle of laughs ; )

  • david :)))

    thanks, running running

    talk to u tomorrow! :)))


  • a civilian-mass audience

    “he stripped off all his clothes down to his underpants to jump in a jaccuzi – he was the first in…”
    he stripped off all his doubts to jump in the virtual world-he was the first in…
    then ANTON…
    then the rest is history…
    ok,thank you JENNY…we got the visual…!!!

    BOBBY,BOBBY…where are you BOBBY…I believe in YOU,MARINA,DIMA…

    I believe in ALL of you…I am your papa,mama,bro,sis,cousin,uncle Max,aunt Sophia…
    BRAVO BURNIANS…I am so proud that I am gonna open this 1924 dry red wine…
    Time for celebration…hmmmm…do I smell birthday???

  • a civilian-mass audience

    oups…my old brain…
    we are doing the cleansing thing…

    Today we will drink Sparkling water…!!!

  • a civilian-mass audience


    where are you STELARA??? are you with the other Greek Psaroukla (ANNA)…???
    Don’t worry…in few months …the food here is gonna be so expensive … that
    we will miss it too:)))
    BUT if I follow MR.HARVEY’S cleansing …I won’t feel a thing

    hiiii…please, check a new face in the facebook…PANOS…hiiii…had a makeover..

  • a civilian-mass audience

    well NONTA is a Greek name from EPAMINONTA…that means that ANTON is Greek too…

    ok,My apologies for my brain fart…it’s the water

  • “Unfortunately, the images/magazines is not available on line”

    I realize, along with Colonel Stok, that the preoccupation with rules does not sit well on the creative mind, but there are decencies to uphold none the less, especially with all the foreigners one finds drifting about the Net these days, and one of these common decencies is that English speakers do not use the singular is when we should be using the plural are. It is a small thing, I know, but the world is filled with small but nonetheless important things that ease the mind, calm the unruly stomach, and that result in elderly but incredibly violent nuns not whacking you upside your head, something that the nun, in this instance Sister Mary Augustine, will neither forgive nor forget and will cause her to whack you twice as hard the next time she gets a chance. Remember, Bob, you have been warned.

  • a civilian-mass audience

    oups…am I a foreigner drifting about the net…???:(((

    AKAKY…I am afraid we got to blame BOBBY’S iphone…it’s hard to type sometimes…
    BUT nevertheless you are definitely politically correct regarding the proper language use…

    hhhii…you academians…I LOVE YOU ALLL…you have been warned…:)))

  • Hummm. DAH stripping down to his underpants and jumping in the jacuzzi. LOL.

    I remember a particular jump of his during my first workshop with DAH. Standing in front of the shot I was trying to frame it just right and he is standing to my right and starts jumping up and down and says: “Take the f….. picture.” I almost laughed that photo away. But it turned out to be one of the best shots of the essay. I had forgotten to change the white balance from daylight to indoor lighting and it was all red but still quite good. I will never forget that laugh!

    Patience and quiet needed for this weekend to pass until I find out where I land next. Is it written in the stars?

    Happy Memorial Weekend all.


  • Just a reminder: INSIDE Magazine, 432 pages, 3 photoessays (one 58 pages long), is still available for free. You only pay the postage, and this can now also be done through Paypal.

    Check it out (the essays are available as slideshows on the website if you look around a bit).


  • JOHN VINK :))))

    just bought a copy! :))))…but when am i going to buy the book (i’ll take either Quest for Land or KR Trial)…dont make me finish my 2 books before you :))))…big hugs…

    DAD (Akaky):

    ok, well, let me explain ‘said’ grammatical error (to truly an error)….

    to begin with, in the clause “unfortunately, the images/magazines is not available on line”, there is a punctuation error (which i think i later corrected when i cut down the email), which inadvertently linked the ‘images’ with the ‘magazines”…originally, i meant to write “the magazine (images) is not available on line” (since there is, indeed, only 1 magazine to which I was referring), but i was typing fast this morning (just returned from a 3k run) and was galloping to the bathroom…so rest your wearily beautiful head dad, the nuns shall not beat the autumnal light from my bright-eye’d heart….but…thanks for caring ;))))))))))……normally, i know my grammar (both syntax and morphology) inside and out…but i blame lack of typing skills on you and your god damn n. 5 pencils ;)))))))))))))….big hugs A.Akakiovich :))))

    CIVI:…i’m really running….must write something for publication this weekend and really Babel and still working on my new burn essay submission (long long long) and well, live with family…marinka and dima are sending u big hugs and wet kisses…and rest assured,, i’ve just opened a lovely bottle of ‘Finca Sobreno, Crianza, 2006…spainish wine from Toro Region…gorgeous young thing :)))…i’ll make sure David’s cleansed and hot-tub ready by the time i see him later :)))


  • Akaky :)))

    just a quick follow on said grammatical dispute…in a change of nouns, the indication of a correct subject-verb agreement is most often determined (especially in place of an object chain) by the nearest corresponding noun, to wit:

    On the floor is a pen, a knife, two books and a bottle of very old, lip-locked vodka.

    On the floor are Akaky’s notebooks, a number 5 pencil and a well-index thumb’d copy of Marquis De Sade’s “Justine’;

    in the case of compound subjects, it simpler (as your nun’s correctly reminded you) but may be offset by punctuation formalities, to wit:

    The book, Kleenex and hemorroid creme are located behind the couch.

    The book (and kleenex) is located next to the balm of hemorroid creme…in this case, the parenthesis displaces the appearance of a compound subject (it’s an afterthought) and refers to the singularity (so to speak) of the book ;)))

    ok, gotta fly..

    those damn nuns ;)))



  • Jenny–#1 story-teller:

    ¨At a party in Perpignan where he stripped off all his clothes down to his underpants to jump in a jaccuzi – he was the first in.¨

    Civilian #1 metaphor-maker:

    ¨he stripped off all his doubts to jump in the virtual world-he was the first in¨

    is that indeed a metaphor? well whatever, it was a brilliant flip of the tongue.

    DAH #1 laugh therapist:

    simply put, your reputation preceeds you :)

    (where the hell are Erica and ¨our¨ Patricia? And Graciekins? and Katherina and a slew more Burnians of the feminine persuasion?)

  • CIVI

    reporting live from the uk

  • Whoa, Bob Black, that was scary..and intimidating.

  • Yo, Gordon ;)))))))

    that was a JOKE JOKE JOKE :))))))))))))))

    Akaky and i go way back.(before Burn was a star-burst on cleansing David’s billowy heart and falling away jeans)…

    ..it’s a long running joke about my grammatical typing skills….and his beloved catholic-school nuns…(akaky, i guess it’s time u post for the uninitiated your ‘poem’ about nuns, grammars and rulers) ….

    i’m about as far from scary and intimidating as toronto is to BC :))



  • BTW, David, will you be doing your Bangkok workshop next November?

  • Hey Bob. I also noticed you had a grammatical error in one of your posts. Don’t remember when it was. Sometime in the past. You should consider going back and fixing it. And thanks for bringing up Roberto Bolaño, you’re not the first person I respect who’s told me I must read 2666. Yes, I must.

    I’m going through just about the busiest two week period of my life. Daughter’s graduating high school, parents visiting, challenging professional stuff, so naturally I started thinking about vacation. Two of the past four years I’ve gone up to Quebéc. I’m not by any stretch of the imagination an outdoor photographer. I’m generally not a fan of it and now that they’re going all HDR all the time, I’m developing an active dislike for it. But still, I’m an outdoor-type-of-guy and a photographer, so I end up taking a lot of outdoor photographs. Just for the memories, though. I don’t sit for a couple weeks in just the right spot to get just the right light as if I were a pro. I’m stuck with whatever kind of light happens to be there when I’m walking by. And I like to look at them to bring back good memories.

    Anyway, rather than working on any of the numerous things I should be working on, I spent the past few hours processing a few of last summer’s Quebéc vacation photos. I hadn’t given them much thought before now. I love Quebéc and will hopefully go back and photograph it for real someday. I only share these here because I know so many of you like to travel and to see and experience something of distant climes. So if you’re interested, this is a brief snapshot of a tiny portion of Quebéc.

  • Bob, whew, that was close.

  • It was the Marquis de Sade, lip-locked vodka, kleenex and hemorrioid cream that was worrying me.

  • Gordon..

    yeah, Justine..now there was a babe..

  • Back from a week in hell. When the only highlight is that you gotta play with an iPad next to 700 freaked out excited MEN (how comes there were no women??) in an Apple store then you know it’s been a bad week (nice toy though, the iPad.. not that you get a possibility to buy one, of course, even if you wanted, the things were sold out within the first hours after the opening of the stores..).. anyway, what I wanted to say:

    A N T O N ! ! !

    Thank you :)
    When home yesterday night I crashed on the couch with 893. WOW!
    (Not so) patiently waiting for the next..

    Ok, off to mix some chemicals..

  • a civilian-mass audience

    CIVI: What’s wrong with the BURNIANS???
    IRL CIVI: what do you mean “what’s wrong”???
    CIVI : Can you see them…they are out of focus…
    and where are the ladies???
    IRL CIVI: They are all in the jaccuzi…laughing at themselves

    the above has been copied and pasted from AKAKY’S memoirs…

  • EVA–

    thanks!! just arrived back home and crashing with 893 magazine in my couch too… but for different reasons… sketching the concept for issue #2…
    i only have 6 months to complete it… :-D

  • a civilian-mass audience

    HAPPY MEMORIAL DAY …to my friends west
    HAPPY times for GERMANY…!!! for my other friends
    for all the BURNIANS in the Universe…the party is on !!!

    you are holding your star…
    follow your heart
    you might be wrong…
    BUT life goes on

    be in UK
    find your way
    souvlakia and pites
    just a minute away

    EVA,La Vida
    patience it’s not in your agenda :)))
    mix your chemicals

    P.S after Chaos …we have the Catharsis …

  • hi civi,

    happy memorial day. im happy cuz im remembering you… and the rest of the night shift.
    y’all know who you are.

  • a civilian-mass audience


    how can I forget…??? I really THANK you from my heart…
    yo all know…:)))
    where is the ice-cream???KATIE is wandering around…
    DB is making a slide…BOBBY is sending wet kisses…
    PANOS had a haircut…OURPATRICIA is rolling around
    DAH is jumping …etcetera…

    and I miss you…
    I even started writing “poems”…
    hiiii…yeah, poems…
    who… I ,the dyslexic civilian…
    somewhere lost in Grecolandia
    …traveling with your photos…
    I see your struggles…cameras,overexposed,M9,pinholes…
    and I am next to you…
    and you are next to me…
    cause if you follow the wi-fi’s
    we are ALL connected…

    ohhh…I got chickens too…BUT we can’t talk now…
    We are doing the cleansing thing…:)))

  • a civilian-mass audience


    we have seen you …crushing in a couches…
    thanks for the visual :)))

  • CIVI —

    hugs to you too…………..


  • a civilian-mass audience

    BRAVO TO ALL…sponsors,contributors,producers…photographers,civilians

    where is JIMMY…???
    a BURNING … heart of gold…

    ok, I talk too much…I will blame the cleansing…

    IMANTS…I know…I have been warned:)))

    Geia sas

  • 1.03pm..
    sitting in the auditorium waiting for x-factor auditions.. they have wireless..
    photoing performances on commission..
    also think it will make a good set of portraits – perhaps the disappointed ones – called ‘make me famous’.. opportunity for a bit of personal documentary work as well.. floating and smiling around the place..

    the waiting room.. trying to go to the toilet involves waiting in line with people going in to loosen up their vocal chords in ‘private’,..

    amusing day ahead..

  • Civi, thanks for the link to the Winephoto thinghie.. one day I’ll get my act together and submit something.. somewhere.. yeah, right! Pity the exhibit isn’t up longer, would have been great to visit it..

    DavidB, sounds like you’re in PortraitOpportunityHeaven ;)


    i am sure my reputation does precede me and of course always gets a bit of a boost in the telling, depending on the teller…and then in the subsequent re-telling, yet another spin…the VII party in Perpignan was in fact a jacuzzi based party (isn’t that why they make jacuzzis?) for a handful of folks away from the mainstream fest…i was indeed the first one in, but certainly not the last….remember this was France, so being in underwear was of course rather prudish of me rather than risque …i went first in to simply hide embarrassed from the hosts since my now un-named assistant had just broken a $10,000 vase in this plush apartment…with all of this carnage at 2am in the morning, and also in some very interesting conversations with my hosts, i do not recall the presence of Jenny at this party….no doubt she was there, but i just do not remember anything other than seeing her portfolio at a review earlier in the day…no, Kathleen, the story does not get better…that’s it..not much of a story huh?

    cheers, david

  • kathleen…

    i am here, looking in, a bit bleary eyed after teaching my first weeklong intensive workshop to a group of italians…andrew s and i partnered for this and dove headlong, and we both found it to be an absolutely fulfilling and rewarding and paradigm shifting experience. we concluded the week yesterday and celebrated the work last night, i am genuinely stunned at the personal vision revealed in several of the essays…i think one of the student’s work would be well suited to burn and i will suggest she should submit it to dah, but all the work reflected incredible and surprising growth and i feel so proud and deeply enriched by having had the privilege to act as the sand in the oyster if only for a short while, and i have only begun to process the gifts they have given me into understanding my own relationship with photography…

  • ERICA…

    i would be pleased to view your students work as a possibility for Burn…you will notice a very high proportion of Italian photographers on Burn…not on purpose, just happens…in any case, your teaching experience mirrors mine…a nice balance of shooting and giving back and receiving as well definitely makes for a well rounded life..

    by the way, are Roberto and his girlfriend still in town? i recall vaguely getting an email from him and not opening it…a “save for later” email….now lost…anyway, say hello for me please and i am so so sorry i was not in new york to host all of you at some point…

    cheers, david