burn band…


looks like a burned out rock band doesn’t it? i was playing with my toy Instax instant film camera today and did set up this shot of Anton Kusters, Mike Courvoisier (he does not seem to have moved from his position in the last picture), Chris Bickford and the ubiquitous John Gladdy…all hanging around waiting for you…..you who can make it to tomorrow’s Burn meeting in my loft….i think folks will start drifting in about 11am, but just come when you can….shuffling around some ideas is what we have in mind…

the net seems to come and go in the loft, but we will skype some of you, if for no other reason than just to say hello…….and let’s please see if we can lower the testosterone quotient of this meeting by at least a little…i think you know where live, but if not please come to 475 Kent Ave , Williamsburg between Division and South 11th..buzz 607…please join the band….i look forward to seeing you….

608 Responses to “burn band…”

  • a civilian-mass audience


  • a civilian-mass audience

    Smile …we are sending good energy !!!

    P.S you got the sun…hmmm…maybe more Blues, Booze and BBQ…
    Where are you BURN LADIES …???

  • Funny, my first impression was: rock band. The 4 gentlemen in the picture pose like a burned rock band indeed! No doubt, the rythm would be wild…
    Most of us will miss a great experience. Sigh.
    Have a splendid day!
    Good night and good energy from Europe!

  • hello….
    love it!!!!
    I like…..
    love the
    polaroid look…….

  • Didn’t I see you guys on HBO last night in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame concert?
    Looks like you’ve all been on tour for years.
    Who’s the bass player? :))

    Please do some posting (not just skype) from the meeting.
    We’ll stay tuned.

  • You want to lower the testosterone levels???

    Does this mean:
    1. You want some (more) females to show up?
    2. Things got a little too raucous and confrontational on Thursday night?
    3. You’re maybe contemplating some radical surgery?

    I have to ask #3 because at the moment I am deeply immersed in translating an article from Japanese on herding practices in Mongolia, where the herds consist of far more castrated males than is usual in other pastoral or nomadic societies.

  • la verdad es que etoy flipando con usted
    da igual que camera tiene en las manos las fotos son simpre buenisimas !
    un saludo desde serbia
    ps. a visitado una vez serbia david? si no…bievenido

  • Mr Harvey

    Great photo there lad, there is hope for you yet as a rock and roll shooter.

    Y’all have a great meeting tommorow. Try and get some rest now.

  • You mean for $99 (at Amazon) I can buy the same camera and take pictures this good? Maybe there’s hope for me.

  • Ah, that loft light. Nothing quite like it. Rock on…


  • I don’t know man, that doesn’t look like a keffiyeh to me. Cheers to you all.

  • And I can’t believe that plant is still alive.

  • CATHY,
    Never met him but from DAH’s posts, bass player is probably Mike C. Keepin’ it cool, layin’ the groove…

    Fine looking group of gents, but I gotta say I prefer Yasumasa Yonehara’s subject matter with the Instax :-)


  • they look like they’re highly trained killers to me.

  • so, rock’n’roll killers…
    at least they look pretty cool.
    I wish you a lot of fun…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    For A Few Dollars More (Theme by Ennio Morricone)

    Can I start dancing ???

  • johns portrait is not showing on the rss nor on the list of singles to right.. ?!

  • I think the publishing date (12. July 2009) explains, why it is not visible in the list.
    I also see the comments in my RSS reader…

  • well… gotta (strongly) disagree with Justin’s 2nd part of the comment ;)

  • Great to see you all. DAH, the numbers are not in yet. Have fun be
    productive and BURN.



    good point….well, at some points as a photographer you are stuck with whatever is in front of you ….


    drop the “highly trained” part

  • a civilian-mass audience

    drop the “civilian” part

    -mass audience…
    killer :)))

  • a civilian-mass audience

    B…and BURN
    Bad BURN

  • WOW!!! First time in history that the band’s manager is at the same time the photographer of the group… :-).
    @DAH (the manager), wonder to know the schedule and fixture of the SouthAmerican 2010 Tour… and where I can get tickets?

    Cheers from this sunny sunday in Buenos Aires,


  • Out of context… but…
    I just stumbled upon this NY Times article from 2008 about Robert Capa’s Lost Negatives:

  • The rock band looks cool….and the instant photograph not bad either :)…. Have fun in New York…Many of us would have loved to be with you guys to sing along…. with a few beers and what Mike has in reserve… I am sure there will be lots of creative ideas by the end of the day, I mean….end of the night as I am sure that this will be a long one!!!!!

    Spirit is with you all!!!!


  • Dreams pass into the reality of action.
    From the actions stems the dream again;
    and this interdependence produces the highest form of living. ~ Anais Nin

  • do they take requests?

  • Akaky: “Do they take requests?”

    (Shouts from the peanut gallery:)

    “Play ‘Spanish Soldier Dying’!”

    “Play ‘Cuban Boy With Red Towell’!”

    “Play ‘Soichiro’!”

    (or my favaorite:)

    “Play ‘Untitled’!”

  • SIDNEY, I was thinking more on the lines of Ran Kan Kan or A Night in Tunisia. Melancholy Baby is good, too.



    And for those of you interested in such things, check out http://www.jazzloftproject.org/

  • Akaky…

    I preordered the book from Amazon in May (right after Erica mentioned it), it supposedly shipped on November 24 and I’m still waiting for it. I’m sure it’s worth the wait…

  • Looks like the Velvet Underground got reunited (nice shades, Lou, as usual!) for the occasion!

    “You gotta burn, burn, burn, BURN….Take a drag or two…..” :-))))

  • a civilian-mass audience

    There’s nothing you can BURN that can’t be BURNED.
    Nothing you can sing that can’t be sung.
    Nothing you can say but you can learn how to play in the BAND
    It’s easy.
    There’s nothing you can Copy that can’t be pasted.
    No one you can BURN that can’t be saved.
    Nothing you can do but you can learn how to be BURNIAN
    in time – It’s easy.
    All you need is BURN,BURN,BURN is all you need.
    There’s nothing you can photoshop that isn’t done.
    Nothing you can photograph that isn’t shown.
    Nowhere you can be that isn’t where you’re meant to be.
    It’s easy.
    all we need is BURN

  • a civilian-mass audience

    another…”glorious” …copy and paste …post !!!

    blame …the booze
    don’t try this at home :(

  • Well BURN band…

    I must have missed Anton by a few minutes for SKYPE after putting the kids to bed…. In the mean time, I was able to SKYPE our dear Patricia and Lassal… Many of us are thinking about you guys… I will not be able to try later as I am going away to the UK very VERY early tomorrow morning so I will be serious and catch some sleep while you guys continue to have fun there…

    I tell you…whate we need is another live from the kibbutz…

    Take care….


  • a civilian-mass audience

    a French American…in UK

    may the spirits of travel be with YOU !!!

    VIVA !!!


    Thanks so much for the photos! It’s great to get a sense of who was there and how it all looked. Now, of course I’m curious about Rachel, Jordan and Mike. Is that Mike Webster? And have we seen posts by Rachel and Jordan?

    Is it still going on???


  • Thanks for the photos, Preston. Too bad the Skype connection there was so intermittent.

  • Yeah, I’ve been following this. If I was just starting out in the competitive photography world of today, I’d would jump at the chance to intern there for free. It’s not like working for free as an intern is a new thing.


    thanks for the pictures.


    I studied computer science from 1986 – 1990. During that time I did 3 internships, 2 were not paid.
    Looks like many anonymous people found a channel for their hate and frustrations. One of the disadvantages of the internet. If I had the possibiity to go to the JN studio, I would, too.

    I am – however – not sure, if it the right forum to discuss it here.

  • The internship doesn’t require camera skills, just PP work. Of course it is the right place to discuss it, it is photo related.
    The problem that can arise with internships is that if they become the norm in all studios , there is one less position for employment available……. the PP position will always be filled by an intern working for free. What happens to the interns seeking this type of work other than unemployment.

  • I was sort of shocked to see people anonymously voicing their anger like that. Better to go off and do a project one is passionate about and create a niche for oneself somewhere outside New York. I am not so sure what you would pick up from such an internship. I mean you probably rarely would be seeing Nachtwey as the whole point of the job would be to be doing studio work so he can be gone shooting. A real mentorship is different but it doesn’t sound as if Nachtwey would be mentoring you here. I once did a similar kind of internship for Steve McCurry and quit after the second day :) But I left amicably telling the studio manager simply that such an internship wasn’t for me, no hard feelings.

  • I like the soft look of your photo as much as composition..

  • Perhaps the internship is a foot in the door. It’s not like there are many paying opportunities. The last time I hired a graphics designer for the newspaper, there were many people who applied. We’re talking folks with college degrees and experience. The woman I eventually hired is way overqualified for an entry level position at a small rural newspaper. She is extremely good. But the job opportunities are extremely limited. Perhaps an internship at Nachtwey’s studio would look good on a resume.

  • Job opportunities are scarce and there is one less as evidenced by JN’s preferences……

  • I helped run a landscaping/tree surgery business for quite a while, we made sure everyone was paid and that included the work experience kids from schools.
    I find it hard to swallow why a successful person cannot/ will not pay his/her staff be it an intern or employee.

  • I’m not going to comment on my opinion of Mr. Nachtwey like so many of the anonymous posters have already done. I don’t know him, and it wouldn’t be fair. I’m not going to contemplate the comparative benefits between Mr. Nachtwey and the intern. There’s just no way to tell.

    Two things strike me about the ad. 1) Aren’t the rules for unpaid internships are that instead of money there be college credit? I see no mention of that. If there is no money or credits, then the intern cannot so much as fetch coffee. He/she must be there to learn only. 2) Who can afford to take an unpaid internship, in New York, with what appears to be a variable schedule so other jobs would be difficult to maintain? I know the old adage, “Where there’s a will, there’s a way” can apply here, but seems more likely that, “Where there’s a trust fund, there’s a way.”

  • jim.. i´m not sure anyone would hire a photographer on the back of their being an intern anywhere.. sean has had to make his own luck.. same as we all do.
    there are possibilities that the intern would be able to meet some inspiring people.. yet they would meet those people as an intern rather than on the back on a good body of work.. and with the expense of a few months in new york working free a substantial amount of work could be done..

    brian – in the case of the internship you may be right, although someone with the right passion will have just as much chance, even if not the same confidence that they can afford it.
    there is a strong contingent of trust fund photographers.. has that not always been the way? i guess photography began as a pursuit for the wealthy.. sure – we `masses` were let in with the advent of film and the box brownie – yet the rich / otherwise employed always have the advantage..
    the way this could be of concern in the past was when a world view was mostly being produced by a small section of upper middle class white people.. today though the issue is much less relevant, since vivek and bodo in india have much more potential to produce great work about their country than any of us visiting could.
    with commercial photography the advantage of start-up money is there – yet that runs out and soon enough we´re all only as good as our last couple of jobs..

    the way i like to think about it is that wealthy photographers do not have the monopoly on creating better opportunities.. they just have a head start and whether they are any better at running or not becomes clear as the marathon progresses… what really pisses me off is people working for free or giving away their work because they don´t need the money – some of us really do need the money and once someone has gained photography for free it´s unlikely they will feel obliged to pay for it again.

    the fact remains that i was homeless for 2 years, sleeping on a condemned factory floor, (hired as a studio), and still worked internationally on the body of work i chose to work on… no amount of money would have bought the opportunities nor experiences i earn´t through hard work.. in fact it could be said i worked much harder due to a lack of funds..

    the internship with james? i´d not go for it.. but then i have trouble justifying any expense which does not produce work, simply because i have so little money..

  • so, actually brian you´re right :ø)
    too early to reason with myself clearly..

  • where are the burnian band? it´s only 3am NYC time..
    perhaps they “play” more in the style of perry como than amon tobin…

  • I don’t know. People manage to pay for college educations that don’t lead directly to jobs. People pay for photography workshops that don’t lead directly to jobs. It seems to me the opportunity to work in a professional studio environment has educational value in itself, an education it might take me much longer to acquire on my own.

    I’m not saying people should not get paid for their work. But I can see the studio not wanting to pay me while they educated me, knowing that I was going to strike out on my own as soon as I had learned enough to do so.

  • i see your point.. it would be very tempting for a student or start up snapper interested in what JN has been up to..
    actually – we had one of the past VII interns post here a couple of times.. what was his name….
    his perspective might be interesting..
    SCOTT M BRAUR i think.. or M SCOTT BRAUR.. sommit like that. lives in china..
    all interns lead to china it seems.

  • and jim.. what on earth are you doing awake?

  • David, I worked for a newspaper years ago called “The Woodsman.” The slogan at the top of page one was, “The Woodsman Never Sleeps.” That was me! :)

  • g’morning from the bluegrass. I am still kicking myself for not going to NYC for the opening and the thinkphoto tank…

    Oh well – I got the tree up!

    what not to love?

  • According to the Fair Labor Standards Act, the employer must not obtain “immediate advantage from the activities of the student.” The benefits of the intern gains seems irrelevant here, as is the desire of the intern to take the position, etc. Unless I’m missing something, This looks like it is breaking federal law, even if he did offer college credit.

  • ALL…

    yesterday for our Burn meeting we simply were not getting a good net signal…the few skype calls we did make to some of you were garbled, so we just gave up…and some of you were just not available when we did try to call…

    regarding the Nachtwey free internship controversy…first , i was shocked at the vitriol that came out of that job want ad….i never read anything like that in my life….the net can obviously be really ugly …

    a few thoughts…first of all, i paid hard cash for a grad school education experience which in retrospect i might have been much better off in a free internship environment..a less expensive education and perhaps a better one…. it would depend of course on who you are interning for and expectations and what one makes out of it…most interns here in new york have a paying job somewhere else or are going to NYU or ICP and the internship is simply in addition to whatever else they may be doing…

    the other thought about this is that i am quite sure Jim had no clue the ad was placed…i am sure his well paid studio manager and regular paid staff placed the ad seeking additional help for a show or something that was coming up…were i a new photographer in new york i might see this as an opportunity to make a good impression, learn a few things, and hope that i was doing such a good job, making myself valuable etc., that if a paid opening came up , i would be in line for it…the number of phone calls and emails that i receive monthly at my studio at at Magnum as well from young photographers requesting to be unpaid interns is overwhelming…i am sure Jim’s studio manager put in the requirements for this unpaid job just to eliminate the dozens of calls and requests and get it down to those who were very serious and very qualified…unpaid internships are common in new york in all businesses, particularly the fashion business..the aim of the intern of course is to get a leg in the door…Alex Webb started as an unpaid intern at Magnum as a 20 year old student…there must be dozens of stories similar…

    having said all of this, i do pay my staff…i even take it one step further and i have them on commissions whenever possible…if i get a good ad job for example, whoever is working for me gets a “piece of the pie”…i also encourage anyone who is thinking about working for me to create their own job…take a look at my studio, my archive, my messy closet, and figure out a job for yourself …this really works…and anyone who decides on their own to just come and help us out a bit, i make sure that i look at their portfolios, give them a project to think about, help them edit, etc etc…trade out works too…i do have volunteers who ask me if they can please please help us at workshops…they know they will learn a lot by making coffee for us all week long and helping just keep things tidy…anyone who makes a good impression on me, will undoubtedly benefit somehow some way in the long run….

    i have watched James Nachtwey walk down the streets of Bangkok…he will drop money in every beggars hand….i know for a fact that he supports a couple of young Thai photographers with their college education…quietly and without fanfare….it is a shame that the ad was not placed with at least some wording regarding the fact that i am sure Jim, if in new york, would give this person some of his time…i am sure he would because i have seen the care he takes when viewing a photographer’s portfolio…neither Jim nor any of us can see every single email that goes out from people who work for us..again, i doubt he even knew of this ad placement….and whoever does get this voluntary internship, if they have any sense at all, will indeed make the most of it and use it for their next step in the best possible way…

    cheers, david


    this surely cannot be true….i am not a lawyer of course, but i doubt the internship programs here in new york could exist if all these companies were breaking a federal law…i honestly do not know what constitutes being an “employer”…am i breaking federal law by accepting the volunteer services of someone? i think perhaps the difference or at least the mitigating factor here lies in the overall employment strategy…i am guessing….for example, if Jim has a well paid staff, and he does, then isn’t there some allowance for volunteer help? it almost seems to me that volunteer free would be less liable than below standard pay…again, i do not know….simply theorizing….

  • http://www.dol.gov/elaws/esa/flsa/scope/er15.asp

    There are exceptions, of course, including volunteers.


    Here’s a very interesting article from Slate about how common it is to be breaking the law:


  • Off the subject but here’s a interesting call for “readers’ photos” over on the NY Times Lens blog. It’s all about family and whatever definitions we give to that word.



  • David, Love Love the photo, very cool.


  • I can’t comment about James Nachtwey, but a couple observations on the general topic:

    Anyone in school would be crazy not to pursue internships, particularly with a top professional. Given that one is reasonably good at what one does, internships are more helpful for landing a job out of college than just about anything else one could possibly do. I didn’t think twice about taking an unpaid internship. That’s just the way it was.

    On the other hand, many if not most unpaid internships, including the ones I did, were essentially good deeds by the employers. They didn’t really need someone to do that work and wouldn’t have hired anyone in lieu of the intern. They were just helping out students.

    Again, not commenting on Nachtwey whose situation I know nothing about, but in general I’d say that if someone were using interns to do real work that they would otherwise have to pay for, that is to say if their motivations aren’t entirely altruistic, and if they can afford it, then they probably should pay the intern, minimum wage at least.

    Another unfortunate aspect of this issue is that it’s yet another example of how wealthier people have so much more opportunity in this society. Many college students do not really have a choice between that glamorous unpaid internship in New York or spending the summer digging ditches or waiting tables at Red Lobster in order to make next semester’s tuition.

  • a civilian-mass audience

    December 14, 2009 at 10:03 am

    ANNOUNCER: what is the weird beard in the background doing with his hands?
    has john smelt something unpleasant?
    why is anton ignoring chris – has chris been naughty?

    The answers to these and other BURNing questions on tomorrow’s episode of As the Burn Turns. As the Burn Turns is brought to you by Byrnes & Harvey Soap Company. Buy B & H for the best soaps anywhere. Come to B & H’s two stores in Manhattan and Brooklyn this Sunday and get a free sample of our new RED #29 super laundry detergent. RED #29 makes your whites whiter and your darks darker. Your laundry will never be cleaner than it can get with RED #29. Look for it in the dark red box. Coming next on most of these stations, Fibber McGee and Molly.

  • Some press about a recently published piece here: Mimi Mollica, Sicily

    “The mafia and me: Mimi Mollica’s portraits of Sicilian society
    With photographs that subtly hint at the mafia’s enduring influence in contemporary Sicily, Mollica shows that reportage doesn’t have to be bloodstained to be powerful”


  • wow…it’s deja vu all over again, just like Yogi said….

  • a civilian-mass audience

    73 AKAKY…73 …and rolling !!!

  • Was Curious what this was all about. Also came accross this site thru the Guardian link sent by MartnB, liked the images etc. Off to take some photos. Best to all!

  • Damn, web is ugly place sometimes.

    If I could live in NYC right now, I would like to work at night for money if I have to and for James for free.

  • BRIAN…

    thanks for the links…as i said, i just did not know….for me , it would not be about breaking the law anyway…i just would always want to know in my mind that i was doing the right thing for anyone who chose to work with me…and i always refer to the young people who work with me as collaborators….the very best way to find out how people treat other people, and in this case assistants, is to speak with former assistants…the first thing i do when getting ready to hire a field assistant who will go with me on assignment as now in Rio, or someone to file some negatives, is to give them the names and contact info of several who have worked with me before in the capacity specified….i want them to know what it is like on assignment…my good points, my bad….the hard work involved….but, i actually get a very big kick out of taking the young men and women who work with me on the ride of their life…i joke with them always, and it is our office slogan “it’s not a job, it’s a lifestyle”

    cheers, david


    i agree with all you say except for the last sentences about opportunities only for the wealthy….i certainly do not come from the wealthy class and i washed dishes, worked at McDonalds, carried golf bags, and still would have taken a free internship with W. Eugene Smith and washed his dishes and swept the floor too….if you have a passion , you figure out how to do things no matter what…actually in grad school, i did have an offer to print for Smith, but i could not do it because i just could not afford to move my new family to New York ..but i remember clearly the moment when the job was offered and i never asked whether it paid anything or not…i did not care…and i was more than broke at the time..

    more importantly i think , is that all the very committed photographers i know, all of us work without compensation most of the time..yes, most of the time…commissioned work accounts for a very small portion of our time compared with our own personal work and in spending time with those who need help…..my point is that doing something of value is not always compensated…

    again, i do agree with all of your earlier points….

    many thanks for coming yesterday and truly making yourself a part of our Burn dysfunctional family…hey, we are having a lot of fun…..as long as everyone feels that way, we keep going…i am not the type who stays too long at a bad party….

    cheers, david

  • a civilian-mass audience

    “it’s not a job,it’s addiction”…”it’s not a passion,it’s lifestyle”…


  • Allow me:

    Jim, your “bathers” (click Jim’s name/link)…. Wonderful, spontaneous with just the little bit of thought and think-thru put into it that can make photographs so memorable and so essential.

    Not to speak making something unique out of a trivial moment of fun.


  • the other thought about this is that i am quite sure Jim had no clue the ad was placed…

    Missed out on anything that followed my post about this (working a lot, finally making some $$ in 2009), but the first thing I thought afterwards was that I should have said my reaction was about “JN studio” ad (and only because they sounded like they needed help NOW. Not exactly how an internship is usually processed thru). I am sure I did not name JN himself as a culprit (who knows where he is, and if he nitty-gritties on who gets employed)

  • a civilian-mass audience

    JIM’S photos number #1 and #2 … are gone…they will be up on the magnetic wall.
    THANK YOU !!!

    Thank you from all of the BURNIANS of the Universe…(we knew that you can sneak a camera phone in the kibbutz).We believed in YOU…

    P.S IMO…you all…kinda looked like Cutouts…BUT we LOVE you even more!!!
    KEERY, the BURNing Red Fireball…
    RACHEL,the young blood…
    and the …killers…WHAT NOT TO LOVE !!!

  • Can’t find that post of mine anymore…. Oh well, Mai pen rai! (that’s “who cares?” in thai)

  • CIVI …
    still digesting?? :)
    It sure looks like you are not only perfect for it but getting better by the minute :-)
    what not to love?

  • a civilian-mass audience

    is that what you are looking for under MIKE and MIKE ???
    December 10, 2009 at 12:28 pm

    Just read off FACEBOOK:

    “…James Nachtwey studio seeks experienced intern for a minimum of three months. Candidates should have or be pursuing a degree in photography, and/or possess comparable photography work experience. The internship is unpaid, so please be financially prepared to participate in this program…”

    The way it’s done?

    I always pay people who work for me, especially more than 3 months, even if I have to teach them a bit the job, and even if it means I am not making as much money, but grateful for the help (I am a painting contractor).

    Maybe, Panos, there is still magic in this modern-greeks world, after all!


  • a civilian-mass audience


    You are a lovely BURNIAN…
    as another BURNIAN said before me
    “I LOVE YOU ”


    P.S let me e-mail you .

  • David,All. Safely back in london. Thanks for putting up with me. Just finished developing the shots from the loft and powerhouse…on the light table there are some definately maybes. will scan some in tommorow and post a link. had an absolute blast, was great to hang out with you all. Now lets do year two :)


  • i have watched James Nachtwey walk down the streets of Bangkok…he will drop money in every beggars hand

    Since we enter my level of my (midly educated) expertise, I am sure Jim knows that there are beggars and beggars in Bangkok. A whole traffic of (illegal of course) cambodian children and women is organized, whose monies go directly into the pockets of the bosses behind it. Not unlike the “gypsies/roms” mafias in Paris and probably over Europe.

    Bangkok, surprisingly for a tough and rough 3rd world supra-modern (in places) capital, does not have that many beggars, when you think of it. Just in my Haight-Ashbury, here in SF, there are a lot more asking hands as I walk around. Most congregate where tourists stay and spend money, you will see very few in other residential or all-around commercial (a)venues.

    Thai beggars are usually of 3 types: almost no young families and kids (save the cambodians), I am tempted to delete the “almost” even.

    First, the old folks, who probably cannot benefit from family ties and their children’s gratefulness (so strong in Thailand) anymore. They are often seen playing a folk stringed instrument, as they still “work” for their hand-outs (so thai again, you get what you deserve, basic Karma stuff).

    Same are the blind singers and musicians, who are actually the beggars you are most likely to see anywhere in the city, not just in touristy ghettos.

    3rd type are young crippled, who are usually seen not far from the foundation where they are lodged and schooled. I have been told by old hands that the money goes mostly to buying glue to sniff or such. I believe it, and understand it too.

    There are plenty of reasons why these types, while being there, are not more numerous, me I say much less, than in our first world big cities. Just one hint, IMO, the super humid climate and pollution may very well not sustain such begging for a long time, you just wouldn’t last that long.

  • Thanks ECMA! But…. As you see, I am already…. almost….. In Thailand!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-)))


    oh my Lassal, we could not get you on skype and were so looking forward to your smiling face…

  • Yes David, I agree with your points as well, certainly about the relationship, or lack thereof, between doing things of value and compensation. I’m sure if we start trading stories about being poor and loving it, this thread could go on for days.

    I was speaking in general terms, mostly about those other people. While it’s true that lack of funds won’t stop the passionate, it’s also true that most people don’t have that much passion, including many who get prestigious internships. Climbing upon my populist high horse, I shout that’s too bad and shake my fist at the wind. In the real world, I agree with what you were saying about the benefits of being a positive influence on those around us, controlling what we can, paying it backwards and forward, however you phrased it? I don’t remember exactly. burn probably communicates those ideas better than any words.

    And thanks for the invite. I love talking publishing and as publishing meetings go, that was a great one. Fun is an integral part of dysfunctional, eh. Did I just write that? Somebody shoot me before I cliche again, puh-leeze.

  • I can’t figure why you guys want to be so dysfunctional, have interns, talkin’poor blaaah blaahh blah.
    Become a lazy photographer, one gets to do stuff……

  • a civilian-mass audience

    VIVA HERVE !!!

    P.S IMANTS…the genius !!!
    Dishfunctional no more…
    to be continued …

  • a civilian-mass audience

    and JOGHNYG,
    thank you for bringing back to Europe some of the NY …bright sun
    (I hope …it wasn’t photoshopped)

    HAIK …I need to submit …
    LASSAL…I will be back …

  • Civ it’s about time you guys finished repairing that glorified marble chubby house on top of the hill.

  • 3 “types” of begging in Bangkok (never thought I’d ever show these old photos!):

    1) 2004? Old folks off Sukhumvit Rd, a tourist “ghetto”.


    2)blind beggar (check the Bin Laden T-shirt, they were the rage in 2002)


    3)A young handicaped beggar (2005)


  • a civilian-mass audience


    Your wish is granted …We are on our way…

    P.S hmmm… someone needs to know …when to be silent…:)))
    Is my “etrouko” ready ???

  • two will be before one

  • a civilian-mass audience

    10-9 ???

  • .two will be before one

  • a civilian-mass audience


    Goodnight From your Greek home…

    P.S you know the rest…by now

  • “two will be before one”
    it depends.

  • a civilian-mass audience


    you did …100 !!! you are the winner of the month !!!
    AKAKY …what’s the price again?

    BURNIANS…please…go out and shoot …I need a visual stimulation

  • I thought we are shooting for 6000 this month?

  • IMANTS..

    good point..i am taking the night off..

  • ALL..

    i want all of you to know that our friend Haik is going to be our super tech guru here on Burn…Haik will work with Anton to make sure all is well on the tech side here…Haik will be making new technical improvements here as well as setting up CIRCUS as technically further advanced than Burn….i have thanked Haik privately, but i want to thank him now publicly…for Haik does this out of his heart…he will be an unpaid intern…like all the rest of us…it will be my job to make sure Haik sees this as an investment for his life….it is only his belief in Burn and i think the bond between us personally that has led to Haik making this most generous of offers….

    big hug Haik…and a cold beer when i see you…

    cheers, david

  • a civilian-mass audience

    ok, I had to come back for this…


    ““Leaders establish the vision for the future and set the strategy for getting there; they cause change. They motivate and inspire others to go in the right direction and they, along with everyone else, sacrifice to get there.”
    John Kotter

    Credit when credit is due…BRAVO,BRAVO,BRAVO… HAIK

  • Good choice, DAH …
    Good choice indeed …


    i share your populist views….yes of course i realize not all have equal amounts of driven passion…i too have wanted to shake my fist into the wind at the inequities that surround us….but ultimately i think too much energy can go into shaking your fist…the energy is lost to the wind….so, recognize the inequities and do what you can to offset a negative with a big fat positive….the wind might just start blowing in the right direction…

    cheers, david

  • a civilian-mass audience

    ANTON ( we LOVE you) and HAIK…

    DREAM team…the sky is the limit…

    now, goodnight…

  • Thanks David !!!
    My pleasure and my honor to help you and Anton to bring both BURN and CIRCUS to their next chapters.
    We are definitely on for a Cold One. Whenever it happens.

    Cheers and thanks to all …

  • Brother Haik… you’re a true mensch!

  • I need a HAIK!!!!

  • Congrats, Haik!

    You have been enrolled in the toughest gig to crack on the web: giving a hand to David in the running of BURN…

    Like my dear father used to say (in french): many candidates, few selected! ;-)

  • Our brother HAIK, whats not to love!!!


  • Thank you, Haik (andcongratulations) !!!

    Civi, you are submitting? Alright! :-)

  • Haik….
    the portrait needs to be taken again….
    take the red eye to NYC…
    great news!!!

  • Go Haik go! Congratulations.
    Definitely you are the perfect candidate for the job.

  • Is anyone here familiar with Larry Sultan? He just passed away.
    His work is extremely “current.” Check out The Valley (shot in rental homes being used for porn films.)
    Also a great project he did about his parents.

    You can see portfolios here (active links in blue):


  • Congrats Haik. A lot of work and a lot of fun.
    Take care there folks!

  • Quote for today: “Where the f..k is the sun?”

    wish you all a day full of bright :)

  • Congrats Haik,
    the Burn band grows. Yeah!

  • Thanks for posting this David – strangely I am seeing this in the middle of the night as I lay in a strange bed, can’t sleep so am catching up on burn on my phone.

    I always liked apad – great source.

  • More strange, just remembered my dream that woke me, was about the future Develop and I was looking at a blog entry I had written featuring the work of a photographer.

  • strange dream.. strange couch.. strange…
    everyone – go strange yourself.
    (the already strange need not apply)

  • CATHY..

    Larry Sultan was certainly one of the most important photographers in America.. thanks for the link

  • HAIK:

    this will be quick, as i’m about to run away for a couple weeks, but just a toss of congrats….having spoken with him personally (for Panos’ opening in La-La Land), i can assure you that he’s even more the gentlemen than what folks imagine…though he does have tech knowledge/savy up the ying-yang, ANY person that puts his family and kid above all else is a person of whom i have unyielding respect…haik is that kind of person….now, since u’ve already seen what i sent u this weekend, shall i send more converse-rouge-esque nude pics to get this party started? ;)))))….u r the best…burn/circus will be a better place for it :))))0….running for a family road trip…..hugs :))


    yes, sultan was not only a great photographer, but a gentle soul…and that kind of soul also discovered the lost souls in the world (especially the porn world) he shot….the lost child in us all….



  • just a quick note on the JN uproar…

    over the years, i’ve written extensively (mostly at LS) in defense of ‘internships’: at Magnum, VII and individual places, because an internship, if the intent of the ’employer’ (in this case Jim) is right, this could be an extraordinarily enriching learning/educational experience. I have tried to make the argument that corporate internships, like Magnum, VII, VU, Blackstar (when it was around), Time, etc, NEED/MUST create a relationship with an educational institution as well,with would serve to add/aid academic credit,just fully cutting off the argument that it is ‘unpaid work/exploitation.’ For those who seek this work out, and are not in school, it still serves as invaluable experience, not only for one’s photographic future (a letter from Jim, for example, as reference) but MORE importantly (to me), a real opportunity to observe, discuss and learn from someone who has the knowledge/experience/acument to teach someone with less experience. when i was in university, i served 3 internships (1 in a paper, 2 in big businesses), none of which were paid, all of which (good or ill) contributed to my maturity (? ;) ) and ideas as a writer/photographer.

    I also have given tirelessly to others FOR FREE. I worked my ass of for Burn/David for the first couple of months Burn went live, as editor-at-large (meaning: finding essays/photographers/work, talking with folk, not to be misconstrued as making editorial decisions, that was/is/always will be David’s role), as a writer/commentator here, as coordinator, as email writer/encourager. I spent a lot of time writing emails, talking on the phone and meeting with photogrphers/editors to help bring steam to burn, sometimes canceling family plans or putting them on hold (to get Mustafah’s Obama essay, one early saturday morning).I have also helped edit and/or write statements/commentary for at least 7 essays that have appeared here. I still meet with photographers to help edit ther work/discuss ideas. I have never been paid, and never asked for anything. I did all this (even at times the expense of my family relationship) because i believed in David and Burn. Sometimes people give NOT for aggrandisement but because they recongize we are all inthis meat-mess together. Not everything that we do or everything that others give us requires monitary value…

    in fact, one can make the argument that someone should pay me ;)))…someone should pay JIM or in the case of Burn pay David because of the invaluable sevice, experience and ideas that they bring to bare when working collaboratively. And yet, the photoworld doesn’t get all up in arms when photographers dont asked to be paid for their time. Ask a lawyer for his time, or a doctor??…free??….

    i do believe that there is a lot of exploitive behavior in the photoworld… have seen it first hand and have, in truth, argued about it and voiced my own frustration with it: at the expense of both career opportunity and friendship. However, the behavior of the photographers on Jaime’slist is so infantile and so depressing that I was left frankly stunned at the level of vitriol and inanity. these guys have never even met Jim, let alone understand the more nuanced ideas of this situation.

    Exploitive work should be faught at all costs and it continues to this day, but giving photographers an opportunity to actually learn from someone, to actually get down inthe mud to undestand what the life and the learning of being a photographer is is an invaluable opportunity. My biggest lament about this practice is that it again separates/discriminates by wealth. Which photographers can afford to help/wrok for free?…who have the time/opportunity? Weekly, marina and i assess our own financial life as photographers (it is a struggle) and we’ve had success/been successful: imagine a young phtoographer who just would love the opportunity but did not have the freedom to have the time to commit without pay because they had to work for money elsewhere?…that is a critical area that the photoworld still has not wholly addressed….

    but like all skills, i see the world of photography as guild-like…one learns through both apprenticeship and through exprience. it is INCUMBENT upon all of us to help one another, it is incumbent upon the elder/experience to help and give back to the younge/less fortunate. I know, personally, that Jim does this in many many ways, none of which were elaborated upon in that blog argument….

    As i have written extensively about this issue before, it is not (at this point) terribly interesting or productive to re-hash my thoughts. However, what IS the most profoundly discouraging thing about the ‘discussion’ (more like full frontal vindictive attack) on Jamieslist is the shameful, cowardly and vindictive nature of most of the comments, including lots of personal attacks and just-simply wrong ideas (vis-a-vis Noor, for example).

    Like the all contentious issues which each of us face, nothing gets resolved without honest, full-disclosure, frank conversation. the level of the ‘discussion’ there is an embarrassment, frankly. I have met Nachtwey and have spoken with him and while there are some things I disagree with him profoundly (and surely respect him profoundly as a photographer) about, Jim like all others is a human being and should be treated as such as well. In order to engage Jim (or any other person), vituperative, pointless, foul name-calling invective does not service at all to the tenent of the conversation.

    Collaborative problem solving (The net) can yield extraordinary results, resources (eg, read today’s NYTimes Magazine “year in ideas’ about collaborative math solving) and networking. However, it also tends to lead to a gut of genuine compassion and honor through which more insight, even in disagreement, can be won.

    There is much that I both loathe and lament about our profession (as a collective mentality) and much that I adore, but the fact that the relationship to ‘unpaid internships’ vis-a-vis education hasnt even come up (again) is another example of how too often herd charging yields nothing but, ummm, a stampede.

    This is also dismaying and yet the good majority of the people there have yet to countenance that.

    is this a sociological inevitability of our age, the net, youth, ease (it’s easy to say horrid things about someone through the veil of protection that the anonymity of the web provides) or just our collective uncorking….

    as much as i try to champion the web as an essential goodness (it is) especially to our profession, it’s profoundly saddening to see this kind of ‘dialog’ surface, continually…

    in the end, i was left saddened by the temper and enmity and nonsense spit out. There are legitimate ideas to be discussed on this whole idea of ‘unpaid’ work and wise and kind and thoughtful people can disagree. but turning this issue into a witch hunt serves not only no purpose but ruins any chance of real dialog.

    I know, personally, that David gives back to those who help him. I say this not because i have helped or because i know david (lord knows we’ve had enough disagreements ;)), but because he does believe in helping because he has been blessed enough to have had fortune (of life) bestowed upon him and I know he relishes and cherishes that and shares it with those around him.

    I know, for a fact, Jim does s well. It is a shame that so many (younger, older photographers?) have turned this issue into hate-filled, blind enmity. It is a shame….

    for in the end, we are, none of us, anything without one another, young and old, experienced or callow, wealthy or impoverished, recongized or unknown. we are all joined and the sooner we understand that the richer our awareness shall become….

    but maybe, it will never become that. in the mean time, I would countenance others to concentrate on the importance of what really makes equitable work:

    the sharing and giving of yourself.

    “Woe to the land that’s governed by a child.”
    —from Richard III

    all the best

  • and the MOST IMPORTANT person on the planet for Burn: ANTOn

    who has worked his ass off tirelessly for 1 year and NEVER asked for anything, not one thing, not $$, not love,not honor, not appreciation…well, ok, he asked for a couch to crash on :))))

    …and he aint a rich guy…he did it out of his love and dedication to david and to each and everyone of US who wrote, published/bitched, argued here….

    not one penny…he did it from belief….

    and that’s about awareness :)))


  • Thanks, Anton, and happy christmas to you.

  • Wow, well said Bob.

    Though as a Richard III aficionado, I’m not sure I understand what you mean by that quote. I haven’t read the Nachtwey thread, but from what you write, I might be more inclined to go with “True hope is swift, and flies with swallow’s wings; Kings it makes gods, and meaner creatures kings.”

    Or perhaps “The world is grown so bad, that wrens make prey where eagles dare not perch.”

  • Peace to the Sultan family; Larry’s spirit and work will live on.








    JOHN G

  • What! No captions?? You unethical bastard! ;^}

    Great stuff, John. Now I’m REALLY sorry I missed it.


  • LOVE YOUR PICS, JOHN!!! You have such an eye…


  • nice one john.. you sobered up yet :ø)

  • a civilian-mass audience



    No Captions
    With my bottle on my left
    with your photos on my right
    I let my imagination run wild
    who is who …?

    I guess …no reason
    for civilian to know
    captions or no captions
    there is no difference at all
    cause I LOVE u ALL
    VIVA JOHNYY…JOHNY …o,ho,ho !!!

    I can do better…I promise…
    I will be FOCUSED

  • a civilian-mass audience


    JOHNYG looks sobered …Civilian has a problem

    P.S Love to CAPA and BEATE

  • a civilian-mass audience

    I am still reading…
    LOVE !!!

  • dellicson…

    Any idea why I cannot see the images in that video, and just hear the sound? Anyone else with this problem?

  • a civilian-mass audience


    after the holidays…you will hear good news…Falling into Place…
    I believe…
    don’t ask me for details
    It’s just hit me !!!

    it looks that you are more focused …

    usually I quote …whatever clicks me…
    Today with your quote…you DID it !!!

    Not that kinda of submitting …:)))

    PANOS,PANOS…wherever you are …
    come out and see the photos of JOHNY..
    Can you finally find your way to the Greek House…???
    We can copy and paste the NY BURNED BAND


  • John G :)))))…loved the pictures….and loved the ‘context’ on your last pic )))))

    CIVI: dont worry…it was a long, running to class to teach post, trying to defend Jim and attack the attackers…so, it probably doesnt make sense ;)))…by the way…i have great news to annnounce too….but only after new years….stay tuned ;))))))))….hugs, b

    Michael :))…yea, love Richard III much…i meant, this is what happens when the young (the comments with all the invective) take over…but i prefer your quotes better :))))

    ok, my last comment on unpaid internships…..i just left under Jaime’s new post, updating


    thanks for the addition…and the moving forward of this discussion….

    i really was dismayed to see the level of both language and mentality swim into the discussion with such adrenaline and myopia. However, that all that vitriol and defamation has at least spawned a richer and more essential conversation is (as i tried to point out) still one of the benefits of collective argument/problem solving. As long as we can keep this ship steered clearly and cleanly, we can hope to reach richer veins of resolution…both pro and contra the ‘unpaid intern’ idea…

    in truth, i really wonder if all the enmity is born from general frustration/anger at the idea of an unpaid intern or is born of something else: the ease with which it is to castigate someone on the web. I wonder if many of the commentators would have been so malicious had I advertised for an unpaid intern to help me print my work or help me organize my current project?…I doubt it, and therein lay the other discouraging aspect: those who have achieved success, of course, have an obligation (as i wrote) to help; however, they often are also the ones who are villified the most violently and that is a shame, to the profession and to their humanity.

    I’ve helped so many without asking for renumeration and i’ve also never asked someone to help me without some kind of payment (in our family, that might be an invitation to our home for dinner, or my time to help them with a project), so it’s a difficult call, especially when there is, all too often, a propensity to exploit or allow “ca plus change” mentality to abide, but there are critical and very real (photographic, experiential and spiritual) reasons why time spent with a mentor can have long-lasting an rewarding benefits, long past the idea of a salary. With that in mind, we must balance real educational and experiential worth for the intern with real value they provide and making sure that is respected and given.

    In other words, what we MUST value (what i suggested in my long, incoherent first comment) is that each of us has the obligation to help, teach and foster one another, regardless of name or stature. We also must respect one another, regardless of name or stature.

    What else do we have, if not our deep and committed relationship to one another, as professionals and as human beings.

    Thanks for bring this to the fore.


  • a civilian-mass audience


    “What else do we have, if not our deep and committed relationship to one another, as professionals and as human beings.”

    P.S Can I drink now ???

  • Now where can I get that internship with the trucking industry……….work for free for 3 months to and learn how to piss off the Blue Heelers . Maybe the art of pushing a broom, ……………

    Meanwhile I was still pushing,,, the broom that is……………. dreaming “I am a photographer”

    The union rep hangs his head in shame as I clean the lunchtime remnants of the chosen.

  • a civilian-mass audience


    “Maybe the art of pushing…I was still pushing…dreaming “I am a photographer”
    …remnants of the chosen.”

    P.S I am drinking…VIVA !!!

  • DAVID B…

    John G consumes no alcohol…his only addictions are caffeine and nicotine…


    you are right on about the unpaid intern bit and a little off on Anton “appreciation” i think….surely Anton received honor and appreciation…better ask him….better go re-read every comment i ever wrote about the man….at least he sure as hell got both honor and appreciation from me…..and like everyone who does work with me in any collaboration, Anton has a piece of the pie if a pie is ever delivered!!! yes, we should all hug Anton, me most of all, but please do not make it sound as if he is not appreciated..again, simply ask Anton..in any case, i will announce soonest a more expansive role for Anton which has been planned for a long long time….there has never been anyone with whom i have ever worked who is a better collaborator than Anton…we work so so well together….

  • Has anyone heard from Panos in the last few days?

  • JIM…

    i sent Panos off to find the mother of the boy Alexis who was killed by the police in Athens a year ago causing all the rioting……i asked Panos to see if he could make a portrait or some interesting picture of her…when the riots are over, she still lives with the tragedy…i think that is where he is…

  • DAVID:

    i NEVER said/meant Anton was not appreciated….now damn, that is why i should not write comments ;)))…i MEANT that Anton NEVER ASKED for anything…he works his butt off because he believes in YOU and BURN and US….you have paid him back in spades of love and appreciation…publicly and privately….and i dont think there is a single person who knows anton or who has been with burn from the beginning who doesnt owe him gratitude….and who doesn’t know how you feel about anton ….

    so, i am not sure how what i wrote was misunderstood, but, let me repeat again: i said that anton did all this without the desire to be rewarded as his motive…he did it because he believed in burn, in you in others…and that love was his reward…and yes, he gets other benefits too, but in no way was that his driving motivation…just as it isnt tom hyde or haik’s or mike c or lassal or chris b or maria or kerry or me or any other person that has/continues/will continue to help your vision….

    now, how the heck did my point get so misconstrued…i guess that is my fault….please re-read what i wrote (as you once said to me ;)) ) about Anton…


  • I hope panos can make the story. in fact im pretty sure he will if he can find her. what with him being ‘scoop’ scoulidas now :))


  • David: what i wrote about Anton:

    “who has worked his ass off tirelessly for 1 year and NEVER asked for anything, not one thing, not $$, not love,not honor, not appreciation…well, ok, he asked for a couch to crash on :))))..”

    i wrote he never ASKED for anything…I did not write that he wasn’t GIVEN anything….how did we get the wires so crossed?…


    running to pack

  • I would like yo know if I am using an Imacon properly for scanning b&w. For that alone the Nachtwey internship would be helpful. I mean am I getting the best possible 16 bit scans out of my negs? What is the best way to process the b&w files using the three RGB color channels? Would be interesting to see. also how Nachtwey is making b&w prints on an Epson? A special RIP or just using the ultrachrome K3 inks?

  • ….the moustaches ate the Panos.

  • Davin that’s what master printers are for………

  • …… most photographers are out of their depth technically. I can print for my vision but ask me to print for another person and I will probably end up doing a botch job.

  • DAVIN,
    I’ve scanned a bit o material through a couple of different scanners, but only once or twice with an Imacon.
    Try to get as much information as possible (highlight/shadow) in to the 16-bit TIFF or 3F (RAW) scan and then go to Photoshop and use your calibrated monitor and good eyes to finely adjust. I try to do as little as possible in the scanning program.

  • Imants ;))))

    that is IT exactly…i can print my pics…but ask me to print Marina’s or yours or, well David’s, that’s another story ;))))…..thank god for master printers….that’s why i’d love to see Michael C’s version of my print….he’s a brilliant printer…and a great guy….i had one experience… for our family exhibition in toronto “One Black Cubed” we had the gallery print all our pics (marina’s, dima’s and mine) and it was pretty good…though we oversaw everything….they’re prints were ‘clearer’ than my own…and i guess that’s why they sold more ;))))…

    running to pack

  • BOB…

    i re-read your comment and now see how it was intended…sorry if i misinterpreted…and i totally agree with everything you said regarding internships, JN, etc etc…we feel the same on all of this…AND in that regard when you were doing your work for Burn i totally appreciated that too of course…and said so many times…the contacting of photographers even after they have submitted is a huge job that all of us share and you definitely did your bit with that and with bringing in some who did not know of Burn…many thanks then, and many thanks now…i wrote early on how you really kept things going here at Burn never failing to really look at the work presented, sprinkling your comments with context and clarity, and giving important referencing always…i sure as hell do not work in a vacuum…this is a collaboration from everyone here…some have rolled up their sleeves more than others, as have you, but many including all of those who submit work, those who take their time to write and think are all a part of Burn….i will never let Burn be anything other than an audience driven outlet….and there is no doubt in my mind that you will continue to play a significant role..

    cheers, david

  • a civilian-mass audience


    last that I know…he was on his way to meet me at the station…
    He sounded HAPPY …he told me he got a pass to the NowhereLand …
    then…he mentioned …mountains …He was looking for someone…special…???
    he was talking so fast…hmmm…that Venice Boy…he mentioned You and others and BURN …
    Signal was gone…I’ve heard no more…
    BUT he is a BURNIAN…and BURNIANS are strong!!!

    and I miss so MANY of you…

    P.S back to the MASTER PRINTERS !!!

  • David …


    who if not i understands how web comments/communication can be misinterpreted…do know worry….in one sense i am very different person that i was 6 months ago…in another way, always the same (energetic, intense, passionate, screwy ;) )….

    and just for the record (context ;)) ), i didnt write about the work i did early on as editor-at-large for self-promo or fish for praise, but i wanted to show others that PEOPLE CAN WORK for free, and work hard, if they do it out of loyalty and a sense of mission/belief….and i wanted to use my own personal life and behavior as as example and not some theoretical idea…

    anyway, as u know, we communicate better in person than via web/emails…no worries, really…just wanted people to know that folk like anton (and every person here who worked their tails off for burn, like kerry, tom, chris, erica, andrew (s & b), eric, marcin, guy from ogilvy, mike, maria, lassal, haik (and all those cats in your meeting this week) did it not for praise or money but because they had a shared belief and love….that’s what i did too, even when Mrs. black and D.black were angry with me…..

    anyway, ’nuff said…

    no worries…

    have to get ready for family gig

    running, literally…


  • David and Bob.

    I’m sure there are many, like me, who would love to be more a part of BURN than on lookers (i take your point David that its the audience who make up burn) as its obvious that there is something of a family being built and created there. So who wouldn’t love to be a part of that. Obviously some of you people are putting in I don’t know how many hours a week. It seems to be all give..

    Thanks to all of you.. huge hug’s going around

  • Just a few short notes since it is already late over here.

    John G, thank you for the images of your time in NYC. Nice shots!
    Haik, I feel you are a good man in David’s burn team! Congratulations + respect!
    Davin, thanks for the link to the Trent Park video!

    Found this today while doing my office clean up:
    Be the change you want to see in the world.
    Mahatma Gandhi

    Someone asked about printing? My experience is limited but what I found surprising to me is that suddenly I had a real piece of paper with an image in my hand. This is always such a joy and a real pleasure to me.
    A piece of paper with an image is precious. So easy to carry around and so nice to look at. With prints I had the chance to edit the images lying on a table. To me this is such a great help and it makes the editing a bit easier.
    To get some decent results you need a good calibrated monitor. This is a big help. With paper I have mixed feelings because I used both incredibly expensive paper which brings of course great results and I also used very, very cheap paper. Much is simply the feel of the paper so the coice of paper is mainly up to personal taste. To fiddle and falldle out the correct profile and which boxes have to be marked in the printing and set up dialogue is a bit of a brain cell killer at first, but it is all doable. Experience is the next factor – you simply have to try several things and see what works best. Set a standard and then do some slight variations and see the effects. Sometimes I correct some images in a certain way in Photoshop for a print on a certain paper. Remember to look at the prints in daylight…
    A very time consuming and nerve wracking endeavour, but still well worth the effort. Once you have mastered the first obstacles it is easy and very satisfying. Give it a try!
    Okay, time to go to bed!
    Good night from Europe!

  • I’m with Peter. Would love to be more involved if/when the opportunity arises.

  • BRIAN…

    i received your email and will respond soonest…many thanks in advance…


    i surely had no idea that Marina and Dima were mad at you while you working on Burn…family always first….and Burn of course second!

  • Also concerned about Panos….I seem to recall he said he couldn’t get to the mother, that she was being reclusive because of all the press….DAH, of course, you may have more recent news or communication….

    HAIK – congrats. You are the technical wizard, well deserved.

    John G – thanks thanks thanks for the great shots of the weekend….and a quick technical question – are you using simpleviewer for your website? I’ve played with it some and might try using it on my own site as I need something simple and basic and cheap…

    all…good light….



    hmmmmm, i evidently missed the comment from Panos regarding the mother…please remember that Panos is either really really here or really really not here…i am sure he is fine, but i will do some detective work to make sure…

  • DAH…the reply about the mother was right after your inquiry as to seeing if he could get an interview with her….he did post later, the last post I can see from a quick scan here is on the 11th…witht he link to the band he found…prior to that he talks about “heading west”….nothing after. These are all on “Athens on Fire”…but as you put it so well, Panos is either really really here or really really not here…hopefully he is simply deeply immersed in a new subject to photograph…

    On a side note I left you a skype message, not sure if you got it. Simply put, thanks for mentioning to Jaime R that I was still under the impression the Miami workshiop was a go. She called me shortly after you told her she needed to get in touch with me, that I was still planning on attending. So now I need to figure out when and how to get into your next workshop! Would love to do a loft version if you have another one planned…of course, if you think it would not be too beyond me at this stage…

    Off to do some evening processing….prints for gifts :)

    good light, all

  • Oh….CIVI…forgot to mention that my wife is busy packing up tins of baklava for Christmas presents…shuld I just leave yours on the door-step?

    I’m happy with this activity (baklava tin-packing), and even assist, since I get to eat the broken ends that don’t pass “inspection”. :)


  • As for the JN controversy, I will repeat what I said on Facebook: I dont like anybody enough to work three months for them on my own nickel. Having said that, my mother says I cannot use this as an excuse not to shovel the snow out of her driveway. I like Mom, but if she keeps this up I will definitely call the immigration people and have her shipped back where she came from. There’s only so much aggravation I’m willing to put up with.

  • a civilian-mass audience


    I wanna hug your wife and you…I am sending all my love …

    P.S yes, on the door step …don’t forget I am MASS AUDIENCE…
    hmmmm…you shouldn’t have touched the broken ends …:)))

    As REIMAR said…goodnight from Europe…today,tonight BURNIANS are eating
    BAKLAVA !!!

  • a civilian-mass audience


    *** Happy Holidays and a very happy New Year 2010

  • Hey, it’s conceivable he could get the iconic photo of the Greek revolution. Why not go for it? I trust he’s aware of the risks. If it doesn’t work out, we’ll have to smuggle a Holga past the guards. Jokes aside, I do hope he’s okay. Fucking with police states involves some very real dangers.


    right now , i have no workshops planned….i have a very heavy commissioned shooting schedule for the next few months and i simply cannot break it with a workshop…we may do something in the loft later in the spring depending on how things are going on the shoot.. and we always do one in the fall…do you have your work on Photoshelter?? we can always try a skype edit or chat…

  • “like me, who would love to be more a part of BURN than on lookers”

    If like me you’re not very tech savvy etc and can’t do much for Burn then I think the best solution is to donate! Half the time I haven’t got too much to spare, so I probably only donate about $10US (nothing one month, and 20 next when I have some spare!) on average. But if everyone could donate ten bucks then I’m sure David and Co. could do wonders.

    But then again; I don’t know the financial situation (& don’t want to of course!) so maybe plenty of people do donate and what I wrote was redundant! :-)


  • Regarding intrernships; I’m coming to the conversation pretty late (been busy scanning holga negs…) but I suppose it all depends on how much guidance/tuition you receive. If you’re going to be treated as an unpaid flunky then you’d probably want to flag it.

    If however you can pick someone’s brain and are given a guiding hand well then it’s probably worth it. But it all depends on each individual situation and swings and roundabouts.

  • John G~
    LOVE your photos… especially the opening shot…. Thanks for sharing….

    what happened to your AOL account? another one perhaps?

    Are you lost in the greek mountains?

    *** *** *** *** *

  • about JN intern ad
    I found a link where a former intern of JN speaks about the time of being an intern.

    and like the others, I were happy if I could support Burn with more than with donations. (which I keep up anyway, as I think it is the least of support I can provide).

  • I only stick with BURN as photo forums go, have no idea what others wrote about Jim or his studio.

    Sorry, but I think it has nothing to do with working or interning without remuneration, giving of oneself, heartful generosity and blahblahblah…. (Gee! Who knows if people who want to appear so selfless, really are. I’ve been around a bit, it takes more than just saying it, AFAIC. The world is full of hypocrites, but even more, of people who are simply not as good as they think they are, not as selfless, unbeknownst to them many times too. The stuff of so much litterature, great and small, straight from life itself….

    Anyway, the problem with that ad is of perception, and how the writing of it was handled. BADLY, if you ask me. To me, it just sounded like they (not JIM, I mean I have no idea, David himself thinks Jim would not act in such a way, his people did him a great disservice then) wanted someone to work for free, a long time too, using internship, a “sesame” word to so many eager to join the profession, as a bait.

    What irked me really, then at least, is that we keep hearing this talk of not giving anything for free, that it’s being disloyal to one’s colleagues or one’s fellow photographers, killing the livelihood of deserving emerging photographers, and then the profession comes out and pays nothing for 6 months work, the logic being, hey, why sweat, the payback will come later (the same logic behind giving photos for free, ie. get yourself known, your photos seen etc…)

    Probably, they did not mean it that way, hence my second opinion that it was rather badly phrased. But with a little finesse, they could have avoided what apparently caused quite a hoopla and possibly an undeserved black eye to James’s image.


  • Martin Brink:

    So then I don’t need the Nachtwey internship! No, but in all seriousness that is what I normally do too, it would just be interesting to see what his workflow is like. I always imagine top photographers are doing something magical behind the scenes with scanning and printing :)

  • I see getting paid or not as a filter. there are paid internships, but for the not paid one is looking for another type of person. there is another motivation.
    In Germany we speak about the “Generation Intern (Generation Praktikum)” – where students and even after the studies people work as interns, because they get no job otherwise.

    We should not mix these two.

    and we should not mix the situation of an industry wanting cheap (free) products to create higher earnings with a learning situation which gives you access to areas and people you would not have without.

  • Many people paid a huge money for masterclass with Nachtwey and thats is ok, but if they have opportunity to get it for free they attacked JN.
    In Poland there is a lot of “Paid” jobs for young people who want to take fist step in some job, but mostly this salary is less than bill for apartment. So I prefer clear situation. You work for an experience. Nothing unusual. I am sure most offended are people who lives in NY and even afford for it. The rest probably regret that they can’t respond for this opportunity.

  • with a learning situation which gives you access to areas and people you would not have without.

    Again, this must clearly stated in the offer. Usually, an internship is not just coming out of the blue,a one of it is often part, established for years, of the way an intitution, a profession, a studio, scouts and educate talents.

    There are zillions internship, with low or no pay, in this world, and I doubt they all create the kind of hoopla you guys said happened on the net about this JN studio ad.

    There are also may ways that one can work for free and see incommensurable benefit for it.

    Usually, these happens from hearsay, chance meetings or on a voluntarilty basis, privately, not publicly never a “no pay, interns wanted, BTW did we mention you will work for free” ad :-)))).

    Like you sleep at the door of a great master, rain or shine, until he takes you in, and grumbly accepts you, no pay, and you count your blessings…While reminiscing all your life what a cheapskate a great master can be! ;-)

  • Again, this must clearly stated in the offer

    I meant an internship is very much about what you will learn, how, with whom, precisely and well explained by the ones who offer it. Not just the idea you just sign in, GUESSING you may benefit from the job. No?

  • I haven’t really heard that much about internships but it seems to me that it needs to be more clearly stated what is expected from both sides. So is a skilled photographer the one who is dedicating themselves to educating and mentoring this intern, sort of like a scholarship, or is it, as it seems to be insinuated, that an intern is basically an unpaid employee. Or is there some confusion because there is possibly a bit of both?

  • i said that anton did all this without the desire to be rewarded as his motive….just as it isnt tom hyde or haik’s or mike c or lassal or chris b or maria or kerry or me

    Sacré Bob!!!! :-))))

    Yes, of course…..That’s what volunteering means, once you do it, you can and must not expect a reward. You don’t volunteer otherwise.

  • Tell that to the guys who volunteered in the great wars, they expected a reward …………victory. They volunteered to win not lose……… not all volunteering is equal

  • they expected a reward …………victory

    No, they believed they were going to win. Even if that meant giving your life for it (then there may be victory, but surely no personal reward, or one, posthumous, that underlines even more the selfless gift of oneself).

    No soldier “expects” to win, a verb most rarely used in war parlance, save in the cases of: …expecting to win that battle/war sooner rather than later, … Expecting to come home before too long or also winning or retreating with fewer casualties than expected. And of course, soldiers may expect to die if battled down and defeat is near. That sort of expectations.

  • Herve, Imants,

    you kind of lost me .. :)
    Volunteering for a photographer is not equal to volunteering for a war…
    (even if the pictures of that photographer shows war.)

    and with regards to what needs to be written in the offer… I assume, there will be talks with the interns before they start actually, and I expect such things to be discussed. And everything else is part of the dynamics of life.

    I mean, do you write down every step you take, before you actually make it?

  • victory is a personal reward ………. like I stated not all volunteering is equal, many volunteer, expects a reward. The bloke down the street did three duties in Iraq, he didn’t have to go, he volunteered, he expected and got his reward enough money to buy a house in cash. ps him and his mates expected to win, losing was not an option in their minds

  • I assisted almost for two years without pay and it wasn’t for JN. Seriously, if you want to learn one or two things and get out there it may be necessary. I saw it as a form of education and investment in myself.

  • Imants,

    I agree, a reward is expected – but it is not necessarily money. Sometimes, there is something more valuable like money – experience. – Therefore one giving an internship wants to make sure it is not wasted on a person who just and only wanted to earn money.

  • Thomas photographers choose/volunteer to go to war…. they are career orientated, many a photographer or soldier has volunteered to go somewhere before someone else volunteers………
    I know photo guys who are into it for the money and glory, their skills don’t go wasted. Damn good photographers who are willing to put up with client shit to feed their own greed, good luck to them I couldn’t do it.

  • DAVIN,
    I think we usually think they do something magical, but I don’t think so. What I think they do, is that they don’t overdo or over-complicate things :)

  • ROSS…

    i think you have it right…it all depends on the situation…an unpaid flunky (your description) is quite a bit different than someone taking a mini workshop/apprentice situation, working within it, and learning a whole lot in trade…if one is unpaid , then it has to be a fair trade of time and education…two well meaning parties can create a well meaning relationship

    i spoke with my studio manager Mike Courvoisier about this…when he worked for another studio he often would enlist the aid of unpaid interns…now, remember Mike is a young photographer in NYC himself…he says that most unpaid interns are not really skilled in the job they might be asked to do…that they require lots of training and time from the paid staff…so, in effect, he says, unpaid interns are an expense to the studio and often to no end…for example, an unpaid intern has no obligations of course..so if two paid staff spend two days or two weeks of their time training an unpaid person, then the expense of the studio went right down the drain if that unpaid person decides to go do something else…..that is why unpaid interns are a bit of a risk to both studio and to the unpaid intern as well…

    mostly i would have to say , neither of these things happen…there must be some sour grapes out there somewhere, but i think the wise young photographer coming to NYC for example would do well to make some kind of contact with an established photographer any way they can…if one proves oneself, then surely a paid job will follow…studios do not operate to exploit young talent….it is in everyone’s best interest to pay as best as one can whoever is working for you and accept volunteers only when appropriate and temporarily AND only when asked to do so by the unpaid volunteer…

    my method is to make whoever works for me as much a part of the business as possible…and this cuts both ways…if times are good, then everyone shares…if times are bad, then everyone cries…this does give incentives to the employees to make sure that business moves forward….the hourly wage system is the worst system for a small photography business like mine for example…better to pay for specific completion of specific tasks for a specific agreed upon fee….

    i remember going on assignment for several weeks once and coming back to my studio with three employees all drawing an hourly wage and nothing had happened really in my absence except that my beer was gone and i had one very large payroll to pay…so exploitation can go in the other direction as well…anyone taking on employees has a full time job ahead of them…managing two or more people becomes a full time job in and of itself, but is clearly the responsibility of the manager…in other words, from the manager viewpoint, if you give someone a job, you have also created a new job for yourself…so, for me personally, i definitely do not advertise for an unpaid intern…young photographers do volunteer work for me all the time and i do volunteer work for them all the time too…a fair trade…

    the very very best relationship i have with the young people who work with me is the “in the field” on assignment collaboration..someone who goes on assignment with me for several days or several weeks..right now i am in the process of choosing such a person…the first skill i look for in this relationship (other than local language skills) is the ability to deal with people from every angle…from the street vendors to the local mayor…i do not need someone to carry my tripod…i need someone who can make friends, to be aware of what is going on around us at all times, and be willing to work a 14 hour day (at least) and can sleep on a park bench if necessary…for this, i provide the experience of a lifetime and good pay too…i bond with the young photographers who spend time with me in this fashion…we usually become friends for life…so many moments shared, both good and bad…this is the very best working relationship…

    cheers, david

  • Giving up that sleeping caper David? you will end up in a squirrel farm………

  • “i remember going on assignment for several weeks once and coming back to my studio with three employees all drawing an hourly wage and nothing had happened really in my absence except that my beer was gone and i had one very large payroll to pay…so exploitation can go in the other direction as well…”

    ha! wow! DAH! yikes! Interesting to hear that.

  • Martin Brink:

    Yes, I remember someone saying that all Paolo Pellegrin was doing was turning up the contrast like hell in Photoshop, nothing really more. . .


    i always rise before the sun….the squirrels are running all over the branch tops of that live oak tree you helped me save….

  • DAVIN…

    i should be clear that i blame myself for that sequence of events..bad management on my part….i changed the way i did things after …. by the way, Paolo has a couple of full time people who do nothing but post process and they were so credited in his NYT piece last summer

  • Ahh! Thanks DAH for the info. . . I made the mistake of just shooting for my personal project the past few months here in Bucharest without doing very much post processing, captioning, keywording etc. I’ve shot about 12,000 images digitally = 330 roles of film equivalent and am sorting through everything now a lot of work in front of the computer :) Must remember to work on images each week as I go forward, it’s just that I enjoy the actually shooting so much more!

    Greetings from a snowy Bucharest! Do you remember Aga, the Polish girl? She’s coming to visit me for 2 weeks starting on Saturday.

  • Just received this from our man in mustache land…

    “i got lost in some greek mountains…
    photographing the illegal production of high concentrated everclear
    also shooting wild boar hunting….”

  • scoop skoulidas sniffing out stories. Looking forward to these.

  • Jim, thank u for asking
    Imants , thank u for finding
    DAH, thank u for explaining
    Wendy, how did u know????
    Michael K, thank u for emailing

    well…it is easier to photograph Elvis than finding Alexis’mom at this point…
    A newspaper from USA is helping me with a Press Pass ( BIG THANK U )…
    but still working on it…no “luck” yet..

    As Wendy wrote ( how did u know? )
    i was “lost” up in the greek mountains of Tzoumerka..
    I was photographing the “illegal” labs, and the not so legal..
    production of tsipouro,,,Tsipouro is everclear alcohol…
    super duper STRONG….
    i will explain details from that experience when i will post the link….
    Now im about to leave once again to follow and “shoot” another illegal activity..
    Wild Boar hunting again up in the cold greek mountains…
    internet connection in greece is still …ah fuck it..it is what it is…
    only in the big cities…
    So now im reading and catching up with all the stuff that i missed…

    and i want to CONGRATULATE my great friend HAIK…………
    ANTON needs some help …so he can shoot some more…and HAIK IS DA MAN..
    just as ANTON IS DA MAN…
    let me check the new essay…catch up..
    have a shower..shave..
    change clothes…charge camera battery & ipod..and go back for the hunting…
    i might be able to drop by again in a few hours..if i get lucky..

  • mmmcoffee and 2 small pieces of baklava…and the rains seem to have finally passed…

    Oime mh my….Panos in Greece with everclear and wild boar hunting. I’m looking forward to these too! Glad to hear contact was made and he is safe.

    Understand completely about the workshops, I don’t have a photoshelter account but will get one as I am working on revamping my various web pages and online storage and such. I will wait for spring and even fall for the workshop and will work on a project to share with you in the meantime….

    John Gladdy, not sure if you saw my question so I will repeat…a somewhat boring quick technical question…are you using simpleviewer on your website, and if so are you happy with it? I’m looking for a low (no) cost solution for a web page…

    good morning light, all.

  • Regarding the sub conversation about scanning, it’s been a few years, but back when I was involved in some fairly hi-end scanning, it was advisable to put all of your efforts into making whatever adjustments you could in the scanner software and getting the scan right. Photoshop is ultimately not very good at recovering detail that is not there and if you have to go that road, to make it look convincing takes a lot more work than getting it right in the scan. Same thing with digital cameras (or film for that matter). Any work put towards getting it right in camera saves a lot of work in post processing and almost always results in better quality as well. Personally, I barely use Photoshop anymore. The RAW conversion software is to digital what the scanning software is to hi-end scanners. Get it right there and you’re just about done.

  • ohh i forgot…
    NIKOS Economopoulos is happy shooting in Istanbul right now..
    He will be back at 23rd…
    update about Nikos soonest..

  • Andrew b. Yes my site is based on simple viewer. Its ok. Simple is the operative word though. I can change out a gallery, or build and load a new one in minutes. But its far from ideal if you want bells and whistles.

    Our man in williamsburg doing what he does best.


  • Panos, you are DA MAN for us now! So happy to hear from you. My goodness but Greece better WATCH OUT! Any illegal or not-so-legal activities will be captured by our unstoppable investigative reporter who somehow sniffs out whatever is happening and manages to get himself there. Stay safe, dear Panos. Some of these folks you’re tracking down won’t want to be found, much less photographed. Could get nasty. Holding you in good energy…


  • Patricia…
    i know what u r saying… and i agree…
    keeping those balances , not easy..
    things can easily get out of hand
    with those hot tempered greeks…
    yup, i do need this good energy…
    Big hug for my sister Pat…

  • Michael Webster: but i thought the idea always is to make as flat as scan as possible and then do adjustments in Photoshop. . . ???

  • Is it? It’s been, let’s see, at least 15 years since I had any professional involvement in scanning. Maybe technology or accepted wisdom has changed since then? Photoshop certainly has. I don’t know about scanners, but certainly wouldn’t be surprised. Or maybe we got it wrong back then? I don’t know. The intellectual principle is that when making duplications it is always better to make adjustments as far up in the process as possible. Same principle for capturing digital information. That makes sense to me, both intellectually and in my experience. But I am not, and never was, what anyone would call a master scanner and am happy to learn from anyone with more knowledge and/or experience. I should have phrased it as a question.

  • I know I try to get as much right in-camera and then in the RAW conversion process before PS…but that may also have to do with my terribly limited PS skillz…


    they expected a reward …………victory

    No, they believed they were going to win

    Okay, I have gone over the above several times and I will admit to being completely flummoxed. How are these statements different?

  • a civilian-mass audience

    tr.v. flum·moxed, flum·mox·ing, flum·mox·es Informal
    To confuse; perplex.

    Civilian is gonna be out of reach for couple of days…
    I am going to search for…JOHN VINK …:)))

  • a civilian-mass audience



  • a civilian-mass audience

    and BURNIANS

    I LOVE YOU …

    P.S I will be back


    You are a gift to this entire community! Have fun wherever you are going and whatever you are doing. And keep holding our brother Panos in your huge heart. You know better than any of us what risks he is taking there in the land of hot passion and even hotter tempers.


  • So is Panos alive and well?

  • AKAKY,

    Be not flummoxed!… or rather, don’t go over such statements too carefully! Very little of human discourse (and even less of human behavior) stands up to even cursory scrutiny by a logical mind. Should you proceed on the assumption that things people say or write should (normally) make sense, then you are asking for chronic and acute flummoxing. Better to overlook such flaws and operate on the assumption that all of us have trouble saying what we mean, that blog postings are an imperfect means of communication, that most people nevertheless have good intentions, and that a little tolerance goes a long way. Otherwise, you’ll be flummoxed from noon to nighttime.

  • Roasting wild boar over an open pit with a little Greek “white lightning”! Is there anything better?

  • In addition to the aforementioned quests, AKAKY IRL will be spend the Christmas season searching for the bluebird of happiness, the fountain of youth, Judge Crater, and the mystical land beyond the washing machine where the comrades of my socks go after they die. Actually, he will be doing this just as soon as we can get him out of the pizzeria down the street. I, on the other hand, am not searching for anything except relief from constant flummoxing. I hear that there are shots for this nowadays. Medical science is a wonderful thing.

  • Love the sequencing of the previous two posts

    “Interview with a nutcase”

    “Panos is fine”


    I own an Imacon 848. Scan mostly color but some black and white

    Basically, what you want to do is make sure all the information on the film is captured by
    the scanning software.
    You don’t want to adjust your endpoints (black point and white point) to the degree that part of the
    displayed histogram falls outside the slider positions you choose.
    Generally, this will render a bit of a flat scan but not always.
    It is safe to move your sliders up to the left and right hand edges of the histogram

  • Like mtomalty said. When we do film scans, we use the edge of the film as the black point, and try to keep as much as the histogram in the middle as possible, keeping all the data until post-processing.

  • mtomalty: ok, i own a 646. I always make 3Fs. In the Flexcolor software then what I do is move the endpoints into into the edges of the histogram, is this correct?

  • I titled it nutcase because I am trying to draw attention. 20 years ago Anthony Suau, the Turnley brothers etc. were in Bucharest next week for Ceausescu’s overthrow and yet, in the most dramatic success story of all of Europe, no one wants to buy a single picture of mine from current day Bucharest. Romania had the fastest growing economy in Europe between 2005 and 2008 with 7%-8% growth each year. Bucharest has gone from a police state akin to North Korea to a thriving metropolis with something like the highest number of Maseratis sold in the EU :) The transformation has been astounding to say the least. In just a few years the youth have appropriated the latest fashions and technology and Bucharest has the hippest nightlife outside Moscow. Somehow, no photo editor will buy even ONE photo to illustrate this on the 20th anniversary of Ceausecu’s overthrow next Monday-Tuesday. . .

  • everybody is worried about Panos…me too…but, not for all the reasons so stated above….i mean all of you are imagining Panos being arrested by the secret police or coming under foul play with illegal ouzo makers or whatever in the pursuit of photojournalism…..no, no , no…get real…i am much more worried about Panos being shot by a jealous boyfriend…THAT is the danger!! so yea, keep worrying, but please worry for the right reasons…..

  • My understanding is that in Greece the preferred weapon of jealous boyfirends is a knife. Maybe I am out of date?

  • PANOS…

    before you decide to kill me for the last comment, my next sentence is going to make you want to kill me more….i will have two M9’s to use on my Rio assignment…see, forgot the last comment didn’t you?


    you are quite correct…i am so so used to guns guns guns, that i forget that most of the rest of the world is not quite so heavily armed as are we…..

  • Hey David. Can I Skype you tomorrow? Is that your preferred mode of communication? I wanted to follow up regarding my exhibition questions (emailed yesterday) if thats OK? Are you around?… What is your ID? Cheers!

  • Scanner guys, you don’t adjust the curve? I do well to remember two hours ago, but I could swear I recall scanner company reps saying to make adjustments in the scanner software for the reasons I outlined above. And I was curious so I looked up the Flexcolor documentation and it suggests setting the curves. Could it be that just scanning all the info is statistically safer, but if done well, getting the image right in the scan produces better quality? Isn’t a scanner pretty much a bulky digital camera with a very shallow depth of field? Shouldn’t the same truisms about getting it right in the camera apply? I don’t mean to be argumentative, just curious.

  • if done well, getting the image right in the scan produces better quality?


    It’s all about leaving yourself options. Sure, you could try to push the scan at the capture, but making/tweeking adjustment layers in the post process is much faster than continually rescanning until you get exactly what you want.

  • We have always just set the black point, made sure the color was pretty close, then set my white point and made adjustments in Photoshop.

  • I heard that, DAH — two Leica M9’s in RIO — who’s not jealous? Looks like a sweet apparatus, but at $7K or whatever not a lot of working photogs will own one. Probably a lot of dentists will be the buyers.

    One thing this BURNBLOG could use, IMHO, is a juicy chunk of DAH images now and then, more than a polaroid of the guys near the window for goodness sakes…

    What’s in RIO, DAH? NatG? You share, yes, you share and share and share and… well, you get it. But how about sharing some pictures? hmmm?

  • David…2 M9’s? You don’t perchance need someone to make sure the backup is safe and charged and ready (and to watch your back) while you’re there, do you? ;)

    As far as fearing for Panos….I was thinking more of too much everclear and portraits of wild boars with a 28mm lens….


  • David, It appears as though you are in quite a playful mood tonight, a little DAH levity is always welcome.
    As for the Lecia M9s, though I know your not the biggest tech talker out there, I would be very interested in a honest assessment from a Photographer instead of a Dentist on the M9s performance before I mortgage the house and truly upset the wife.

  • See the advantage of being a famous photographer? Most people are on a long waiting list for their M9 and Harvey snags two of them. ;)

  • ” i provide the experience of a lifetime ” David Alan Harvey

    yes yes …that is absolutly fucking true …..

    sorry fr jumping in late ….. but I am tied with som shit I should have taken care of long ago ….

    defintly ,.,… my internship at the loft was a experience of a lifetime …..

    but its not like every frame i click is a kool image ..but slowly the whole experience is unfolding as i meet new challenges everyday ….. i would be dishonest if i said it was just a month in my existence on this planet … it was definitely one of those life changing 30 days …. m still digesting it ….

    am too young to comment on whether an intern should be paid or not ….. but for me exchanging work for education is the way to do it … I just cant imagine myself sitting in a classroom and putting stuff in my brain ..it works for quite a lot of ppl but defintly not for me ….

    the teacher assistant tradition is a long lost Indian thing …. and it worked well then …. its now that India is a developing country …. with the new so called ” International education ” approach ….

    DAH understood this and opened all doors for me I mean literally i was sleeping in his loft !!

    … all he needed to know was i wanted to learn …

    yes yes ..an intern can be a liability …. and it can be even worse with a Indian guy in NYC for the first time in his life …. i still freaking remember the moment when i almost screwed up a very freaking expensive print by a very famous photog … and a series of other small goof ups … but all in all it was definitely a beginning of a friendship for a lifetime ….

    just felt like adding my two cents ..cheers vivek

  • ahh see you got paid two cents ……..

  • Jim you don’t need to be a famous photographer to get an M-9 , My dentist just got one!


    skype me early in the morn

  • David,

    Be careful with your brand new leicas in Rio. I think they will not wait a year for you like last time :)
    Someone will sell them as a cheep point&shot cameras.

  • Glenn; Be VERY cautious if he says you need a root canal, he may just be short a few bucks for a new lens! :-)

  • Dellicson, the BBC are running stuff on this http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8415614.stm posted 18 hours ago. Also on this page is a video dairy of East germany touching on the very things you mention in your post, the economic rise etc (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/franzstrasser/) it might be worth getting in touch.

    Best of luck


  • Ross $500 smackaroos for a root……….

  • Well, my heart bleeds because my m6 is and will stay in my drawer. I am digital photographer now. Even if I love with M cameras and it is most natural way of shooting for me. Not slr.
    M9 is some solution, but only some because I have only one kidney to sell even if I add a half of liver (in excellent condition, truly) it will be not enough.
    Thats why I like my Dslr camera last time. one camera and one 35 (24) lens rule. Almost like working with m cameras :)

  • It is a shame that camera like m6 must died. But well… reat in peace my dear :)

  • Imants; You always were a man of taste…. :-))

  • Marcin; A truly tough dedicated photographer can survive on one kidney and half a liver. Toughen up! :-))

  • JIM…

    do you know the shot of me with the Leica IIIF when i was 14? i think it is still up on my website on the bio page..anyway, that picture is what does the trick with Leica…probably more about long term loyalty than anything else….

  • i posted a note to vivek and it disappeared!! damn

  • .. by that reasoning i will have no problem getting a zenith em free..

  • David: Will try to catch you. Remember i’m MST! Your early is my zzzzzz.

  • DAH, you know I’m just giving your a hard time. It will be interesting to see what you produce with the M9s. Just wish the high ISO output was as good as Nikon and Canon dSLRs.

  • Not really after medicare comes to about 86 bucks……depending on fitness

  • what ? medicare covers that sort of thing?

  • probably not, must be a private thing

  • for anyone liking multimedia…. check this out….


    if you look at link above, check out homeboys. imagine doing a piece like that and giving kids cameras, having their photos in it… could be a powerful piece for grant money :)) **circus, butterflies and zebras…..**

  • Glenn

    Yes, all you young folks out there, study dentistry and keep taking pics as a hobby.

    Dellicson, I did love my Leicas too, but an M9 with a 35 summicron gets pretty close to $10,000 with tax up here in Canada.
    I noticed a someone posted a snap of DAH sporting the new Olympus Pen with the 18mm lens and finder. It ain’t a Leica, but at least you are looking through an optical viewfinder. Actually, you could just add a 35mm leica optical viewfinder to your DSLR, field of view should pretty much match your 24.

  • WENDY..

    yes, i can see it….i see that and the tablet and all of it coming together….lotsa stuff going on…

  • GORDON L..

    where did you see a picture of me sporting an Olympus Pen?? i do not recall ever using this camera….i certainly do not have one and i just cannot even picture what it looks like…musta been someone’s that i briefly had in my hand or something…

    yes, the M9 appears a bit expensive….and would be as a second camera….however, if it becomes a real tool as was the M6 , then it is not too expensive…it would be no more than any of the top of the line cameras with a couple of lenses…however, i have no idea how good it is…..and while i generally do not do tech reports here, i will certainly do one on the M9 since i will be doing serious real life real time work with it…

  • DAVIN…

    well, i checked into Institute just a bit…it was started by Frank Evers, the man who “invented” and ran VII when they were created/sponsored by Canon….and he brought his wife Lauren Greenfield with him over to Institute….it looks to me not exactly like an agency but a production company of sorts…i will try to find out more…but, yes does look interesting…except i would not have chosen Institute for a name…sounds immediately restrictive..

  • Maybe I haven’t seen enough of them, but so far I don’t see any serious difference between these multimedia presentations and tv news reports or independent documentaries, save for the fact that they may include a few more still photos than normal. I don’t think they’re going to provide any kind of panacea for still photography. The challenge, I think, is to find a way to get more people to enjoy looking at still photographs for the same reasons we do. Still photography is an inherently interesting and worthy art form. Some ambient audio can be good, but I find the video and talking heads distract from the photography.

    My guess is bigger, higher resolution photos on bigger, higher resolution monitors or tv’s will more likely be the future. I think many people might enjoy big, stunningly rendered photography, like in a gallery, only changeable and additive like ITunes. Instead of paying $5000 for a print, pay $5000 for a 50″ screen with a slideshow hard coded into it. Or a blue ray disk. Or something like that. If the tablet is as beautiful as I expect, it might function as a gateway drug.

  • M9
    CUTS LIKE A KNIFE…………………….:)

  • I MISS U ALL..
    I’LL be back in regular programming..in 4 days..:)

  • but so far I don’t see any serious difference between these multimedia presentations and tv news reports or independent documentaries

    I remember when I was a teen in France, “explorators” ethnologues and reporters would show their latest journeys in city and auditoriums, or music concert halls (Pleyel, Gaveau). They were quite popular, usually a film followed by a question and answer session. More than a few of them were passable photographers, probaly came to film via photography, as projects started to get funding. Photo books were published and slides edited into the movies/docus.

    MM is wonderful, but I am struggling to find what is so new about it, too. Even from a strictly artistic POV, when you think of independant sisties icons like Chris marker and countless other whose names escape me. John Cage did a lot of concrete, aleatory “music” on still images projected as movies on screen too (it takes indomitable meditative practices to stand more than 30 minutes of it, ahahah).

  • Hey David, somehow my spider senses picked your post up, so if you don’t mind I’d love to chime in about INSTITUTE. It is an artist management and production company, representing filmmakers and photographers. We work with our artists on everything that they do, not just assignments and resale, everything, including their documentary films, their book deals, cultural initiatives, sourcing funding for special projects, working on personal work, helping to promote their efforts so that years of work sees the light of day…everything. We believe in the 360 approach to enabling and supporting them. The reality is that the more we are involved, the more that we can do for them. There is a lot more synergy to be tapped from all of these different areas than a lot of people realize.

    As for the name, INSTITUTE, it actually comes from the latin “instituere” meaning to build, create, raise or educate. The name speaks to the very essence of what we are all about. Plus, I guess I had to get something out of those years of latin in my old irish boarding school :-)

    Anyway, nice to meet everyone. Lauren was thrilled to present David & Burn with the Award at the Lucies. It is the right recognition for what you are all doing here, and Burn’s increasing importance and impact on where photography is going.

    Good luck. I’ll stay tuned.


    Frank Evers

  • Frank, I would say David was referring to public perception,these days the term is seen as an inflexible authority. The so called institute seems narrow in it’s perspective about art being more about traditional photographic/film forms.

  • HERVE…

    there is nothing new about MM….only difference is that they are easier to make/to build…but the live projection is worse…nobody talks about this with digi, but the projection onto a large screen of digital images makes me cringe every time unless being pumped through a super projector costing 100k or more…a 3-4 thousand dollar projector buys you quality that is the equivalent of an old Carousel projector with a kleenex over the lens…

  • David one relays the MMs on multiple screens, hands out examples of prints and the kids that are bored with the slide show surf the net in between images with their headphones on.


    nice to have you here…i keep telling everyone who comments here that very important people ARE reading all the time, but just do not comment…and , yes, Lauren did present me with the Lucie…AND Lauren was also a PAID intern who worked with me on a Chicago shoot more than a few years back…she had energy then, she has energy now…a working mom, with a working dad…no small feat…

    of course i totally get the secondary meaning of the word Institute even though i think i got a C- in Latin class (yup we all took Latin back in the day)…there is no doubt in my mind that you are running a terrific operation…you do not mess around…thanks for clarifying the whole role Institute plays in the creative life of your members….mostly, many thanks for stopping in..please come back…

    cheers, david

  • IMANTS..

    yes, of course that is the way kids and most people see MM….yet , i still have to do a lot of large audience presentation….and the digi projectors just do not do it….but, as i said, the production is so much better and easier now…i used to put cardboard slides as black slides and everything very very crude with the Carousels..clunk, clunk….

  • “very very crude with the Carousels..clunk, clunk”

    And then you realise you’ve forgotten to take a slide label off and the bulb heat has caused it to fall off and jam the projector…

  • You will have to join the shifting world of communication, the role of the image is been slightly diminished be the resurgence of oration and text. Remember the tablet……….where text oration and image will all have equal billing. Look at blogs, twitter ,off my face book etc

  • I’ve mentioned a few times that one of burn’s best features is that it has opened my eyes to a vast range of different photographers and photography styles.

    Quite a while ago Erica mentioned Sylvia Plachy, a photographer I had never heard of until then. Her work intrigued me, so a couple of week ago I ordered her book “Self Portrait with Cows Going Home”.

    Well it turned up a couple of days ago (I didn’t expect it til after Xmas, so a nice surprise) and what an amazing book!

    So thank you Erica!


    i have been tracking the Red all along…and a 50mg file still image pull off…sure, this is the future i am sure…the Red (Scarlet)can be very customized , although the 3D looks like something i saw in my doctors office…and the tablet is where communication started in stone and now electronic…one big circle…

  • ROSS…

    i am surprised you never heard of Sylvia, but pleased you found her…surely you do know her son…Adrien Brody…Academy Award actor from The Pianist ..talented family…

  • Most of us misread the Moses tablet bit…………. maybe we should reconsider our approach to the tablet content.

  • David;

    You’ve got to remember that us kiwi’s aren’t as sophisticated as our Aussie cuzzie bro’s across the ditch; as I’m sure Uncle Imants will point out… :-)

  • Yup Ross, evidence shows that with the advent of cheap airfares between Auckland and Christchurch, Kiwi immigration to Australia has slowed considerably.

  • It slowed the most when your government changed the law so us kiwis had to be in Aussie for 6 months before we were allowed to go on the dole! :-)


    i will not get into a Kiwi/Aussie discussion…you two will have to sort it out….Ross, i also realize these days that it is a bit hard to find real compendiums of photography…it is harder these days to figure out who has done what …i met a photographer recently who really thought that Flickr groups were the sole arbiters of photography…so, there you go…enjoy Sylvia….

  • Aaaah the good old days when you could arrive in Oz, go down and check in at the dole office before going to laze on Bondi Beach… Middle of winter, all the kiwis swimming and wondering what that big round yellow thing in the sky was. All the Aussies sayn’ “Crikey, bloody stupid kiwis swimming when it’s freezing”…. :-)

  • David; There are just so many wonderful photographers out there it’s hard to know everyone. Also; I only began shooting people about 3 years ago, before that it was all nature and natural history. So no problems spouting off a few names in that field :-)

    As for the Aussie/Kiwi discussion, there are always a smiley at the end of the post! I once had a Texan aquaintance ask me if I knew a good friend of his who lived nearby in Melbourne! :-)

  • David know you know Kiwis ain’t backwards they discovered people three years ago……… might be time to go over the ditch next winter hire a campervan and take a fling around the South Island. The tourists are all on the ski fields. Did it once before camped on the beaches great stuff.

  • David

    I could be wrong, but I thought I saw a pic of you sporting an Olympus at what looks like a stairway at the loft. Perhaps at the gallery show.

    Cheers, off to my son Brians’ Special O Christmas party.

  • New Zealand? Who runs the pub there now?

  • Gordon, I believe the Olympus you’re referring to was owned by one of the students of the workshop. David was having a look at it. – pretty nice for a point and shoot- allows use of the Olympus SLR lenses… however it’s a 2x crop and need to use the screen to compose.

    ALL – HEllO! I’ve just ended another semester. looks like i have some catching up to do . David – nice shot with the Instax – did you rig up a better view finder?

  • Imants, Glenn;

    If you both come over come stay with me and I’ll take you to the Whangamomoana Pub; via Pukengahu, Toko, Tututawa, Puniwhakau and then Whangamomoana. Play your cards right and we’ll even visit Taumaranui, but we’ll have to go through Kahouratahi and Tangarakau to get there! :-) Try saying all those names after a few cans of Tui lager… :-)

    If you can manage that how about we go to;


    Yes that’s a real place…


    “they discovered people three years ago” it was a false alarm….


  • 2 second slide show…….mouse rollover


    i searched everything in Burn submissions and found nothing from you…a letter yes, pictures no…?????

  • David…

    while you’re at it, could you please check for recent single submissions from me too? I’m preparing a couple more and it’s good to know if they’re getting through…

  • David

    I have submitted over 5 pics over a period of over 6 months I guess, all submitted to the single image submission with an explanation, I received confirmation emails from burn saying the note had been received.

    Don’t know whats happening, maybe this is why you seem to be receiving relatively few single image submissions???



  • “Try That with A Hard Drive”


    ( 5 minute pit stop yall…big hug )


    Thodoris you are fine…only Ian is a mystery…every since i mentioned here that we got so few singles, they have come in by the dozens or hundreds or well, we have a lot….Ian i might not be searching right…if you received a confirmation , they have to be there…anyway, pls. simply send again Ian and i will confirm personally all is well..thanks

  • ““There is a romance and an verve to darkroom photography and real silver-gelatin prints that is actually heightened by the predominance of digital. It’s an ethereal quality that cannot be matched with digital prints,” He added.”

    That’s what I would say too if I was selling B&W film and paper. ;)

  • david,
    you are so lucky….. can’t wait to see what you shoot…. Rio and a leica?!? what not to love!!



  • JIM…

    i do think there is an ethereal quality to silver prints….don’t you?


    testing a $10,000 camera in RIO, the worlds most dangerous city (see New Yorker mag), has its ironies…of course i used my M6’s there before (one was stolen, strap knife cut)…however, generally the Leicas to the average person and average thief does not look like a pro camera…i have often had my press credentials checked twice when guards did not think i was professional because i carried a beat up Leica and one lens..now, how do i get these new M9’s to look old fast?? black gaffer tape??

  • DAH/aitken…

    Pacsafe also makes gear to prevent the slash-and-grab. Bags and straps….the bags have a lightweight steel mesh to cover the bag to prevent access when it’s locked to something…


  • camera strategy from a photographer who was shooting in RIO


  • everybody knows i do not talk much tech stuff…BUT i did just open the box of the M9….so, i have only taken about 10 frames with this camera in my living room…so, that is hardly a test…BUT just having my trusty aspherical 1.4 35mm lens on full frame digi is wonderful…shooting wide open and having that background go so pleasantly out of focus is, well, ethereal! now surely there will be quirks…i know it is not really fast with the buffer…and the relatively low iso compared with most dslr’s ..only real time field shooting will let me know about the buffer speed, and the iso is not really a factor when i have the 1.4 lens and i think i can use 1200 iso just fine…besides, i only shot film of 100 iso or lower most of my life, so 1200 is a luxury anyway…

    the beauty of my M6’s, and just having the M9 in my hand, is really only one thing…for some reason these cameras just make you want to take pictures…i have never been able to identify exactly why that is, but it is true..at least for me…so so organic is all i can say…

  • David,

    Sounds like you’re going to be having some fun over christmas!

    I just sent an e-mail to your Burn address. Some advice needed if possible.



  • black gaffer tape??

    Works for me. Sprinkle in a little playa dust, maybe some paint splatters from carnival, and there you have it.

  • David,
    “for some reason these cameras just make you want to take pictures…i have never been able to identify exactly why that is, but it is true..at least for me…so so organic is all i can say…”

    You dont like tech talks, but we all are just photographers and we have to love ours tools somehow. Good cooperation is always based on love.

    That’s why I think it is huge waste when my m6 lies in drawer, but it must be so.

    I send you link. Please have a look if you have time.


  • David, having never (gasp) actually shot with a Leica, I’d love the opportunity to get it looking well used for you. Give me a week, I’ll get it tuned up. Here, you can keep this little canonet as backup … ah well, maybe that’s an expensive addiction I don’t need … on second thought, yes, yes, I do … here, the canonet, take it, no problem … does the full frame M9 vignette wide open with the 1.4, or do you usually stop down to 2? So little love out there for the vignette …

  • DAH

    I hear you…just took my new 5DII out of the box yesterday. I have only shot full frame, wouldn’t buy a digital camera until the 5D came along with full frame, so this new camera isn’t shockingly different, but still fun, fun, fun!


    Do you (or anyone else here) use the Paksafe products? I’ve been looking at them for my upcoming India trip. Was just on their site last night. Lots of folks use them. I just wonder if it doesn’t identify stuff like a neon sign flashing “valuable?” As long as the thief doesn’t have wire cutters it’s great.

  • IAN…

    i was searching wrong as i suspected…in submissions i must search a different way than i do for e-mail…anyway, i found your work…no problems….

    thanks for the camera strap tip…i will try it…although the main thing when working in the favelas is simply to have good rapport…if they want your camera , they are going to get it wire in the strap or not…someone with an AK47, and there are plenty, can have my camera if they ask…but, this is not what happens in my experience…i have never been flat out mugged or held up..what happened to me was large crowd, shoving, pushing, someone who does not know me comes in underneath the crowd with the knife and cuts…if i know the people in front of me even if only for a few minutes, can at least make eye contact etc , then i am usually fine..

  • David

    I’ve had many cameras in the past, until some years ago when I started to shoot with the M6. I felt in love inmediatly. Later with digital getting so good, I finally traded a bunch of film cameras for a in box M8. Now is my only camera, and it’s a wonderful equipment form me. Much bad critisim have bein said regarding the M8, but for me it works just fine. You are right with M Leicas. They inspire so much, besides bein so practical and easy to use for non tech guys like me.


    just for you amigo, i now walked outside, set the M9 at iso 160, opened up to 1.4, at aimed up at a flat grey sky…yes, vignetting the same as with the M6…after all, same lens…it looks a little worse in digi than with film at least on the back of the camera..probably just looks worse because of a flat toned sky..nothing i would ever shoot in reality would be that flat…i think most of my pictures that you know are vignetted because i shoot mostly wide open…however, normally it is either not noticed or it looks quite nice..anyway, i will never think of it again!!!


    i will look for your e-mail


    yes, i saw your link and your pictures…we should speak by skype…but, i do not know when..i fly tomorrow to Colorado…. and may not have time today…anyway, sometime in the next few days…or , when i return home on the 26th….


    i think you will like the 5D…just for the record the Nikon 700 is also full frame and very good…what is good about the 5D is the video capability..my son Bryan, who is a pro cinematographer/videographer just returned yesterday from one month of filming with both his hi-def monster and the 5D in video mode..said the 5D was terrific..with some quirks of course…main thing: do not try much panning in video mode he says…not good for this…you will get an “aliasing” effect..but for stills, go at it…


    where in the world have you been?? years have gone by since we heard from you..right?? anyway, yes the M’s just make you want to dance and fly

    cheers, david

  • Well, a Leica won’t make you a better photographer (I know, I own several) but you’ll feel much better about not being a good photographer. People will walk up to you on the street and say, “Whoa! Is that a Leica?” Every time I head out with my IIIF I start channeling HCB. Life can’t get much better than that. :)

  • JIM…

    you have a IIIF?? and use it??? great….love it

  • Yep DAH, rapport rapport rapport…. its the way forward, even if only for a millisecond.



  • Jim, David

    Yes, there can be something quite beautiful about silver prints. When I look through some of my very old stuff, especially small prints on Agfa Portriga, they just sing.

    On the other hand, my bigger prints are far superior on inkjet in all respects, especially in colour.

  • David:

    Well, I have been, but not really as a comment guy, just as reader, and a very loyal one. I guess I’m to shy for conversations. I never mis Burn anyway. I even submited a single picture some months (or years?)ago of my horse course proyect that i’m still working on. If you wanna take a look at it, i’ll be glad to submit it. I’m making the edition but it’s not an eassy task. If you could give me a hand with that it’ll be so wonderfull…but been so far away (Chile)…how could wee do that??

    Best regards

  • Photography is funny . You do get some recognition from great photographers you’d never thought would pay attention to what you shoot, and none from the ones, great or less great, whom you thought would find a way, a second, a word, to encourage you….

  • hey DAH

    believe it or not, i did actually submit a single image the day before halloween… same story as Ian perhaps. maybe you can run it next year eh?


    merry christmas….

  • David, you’re too cool. Hope to see you in the spring if you’re around. yeah, yeah, for real and finally with something more than a single to show.

  • Yes, David, I have a IIIF that’s always in my bag with the dSLR. I shoot with it frequently. I’ll post a link to a photo of it later tonight so you can check it out. It ain’t no shelf queen. :)

  • Tom, how are diggin’ your Canonet? I picked up one at Goodwill a couple of weeks ago, but gotta replace the light seals before trying out :-( (Also needs a little battery chamber work to get the meter going.)

  • BEN…

    i have your picture…red, dracula….no pics missing…simply my search was in error…

    Merry Christmas to you…

  • CATHY…

    My brother used a pac-safe bag and strap on a recent trip in south america. He, too, didn’t initially give it too much credit, but said it really ended up being a bit of extra piece of mind that in a crowd no one could bump him from behind, slit the strap of his bag, and run off. The cables are suposedly made to resist normal wire cutters. He also liked being able to lock it to the table or chair leg, again, someone could cut it, but not so quickly that you wouldn’t notice them as they tried.

    The strap is very non-special looking. The bag looks…well, like every other backpack or bag.

  • DAH,

    To clarify…I’ve been using the original 5D since it came out (4 years ago?) so the new 5D is not that dramatic of an upgrade other than the video capability as well as the much improved higher ISO.

    I’ve been shooting almost exclusively in low light for quite a while now so the higher ISO is something I’m excited about.

    Thanks. Sounds good. I’m seriously considering one of the mesh “covers” that will go over my carry-on bag. I’ll have my camera gear with me most of the time but will be leaving my laptop, hard drives, etc in the room while I’m out shooting. That’s where I’d like to use it, as long as I can find something non movable to attach it to. Also could come in handy if I’m on a train and want to use the bathroom or something…can’t drag all my gear in there!

  • JORGE…

    i would be pleased to view your Chilean horse work …just get it into a program where we can view together…on skype we can share screens , so it makes it really easy to edit online..having said that, i will have very very little time in the next few weeks…maybe right after Christmas i will have a day or two to do some editing here with Burn readers…after that Brazil …i do hope to get back to one of my favorite countries, Chile…it the meantime, let’s skype it…

    were you not the very first blogger that ever left a comment on Road Trips? it was you or Marcin or Rafal for sure…

    cheers, david

  • CATHY..

    i think i have mentioned this to you before, but always leave out something for thieves to steal…kinda like cookies for Santa Claus…an old non working camera on the bed or night stand works…anything to distract thieves from the real stuff…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    no need to leave out something …where is POMARA???
    He said he has a prototype ready…A BURNing bag.
    Maybe you can all carry the bag with the BURN logo…just to distract the thieves…

    you are handsome…you don’t really need another Leica…
    M6~M8~M9…I LOVE LEICAS but don’t be intimidated…we Civilians LOVE to see and your hearts too!!!

    Just to be prepared
    “…A major storm moving up the Atlantic Coast on the last shopping weekend before Christmas threatened to shut down much of the region as officials warned of the potential for up to 20 inches of snow and significant power outages.”


  • a civilian-mass audience


    Thanks for coming by…Please, say thank you to LAUREN GREENFIELD for the
    “Bye,bye Dubain ” she knows …yes, civilians do read…:)))
    next time…ouzo and baklava on BURN !!!

  • a civilian-mass audience


    Welcome Jorge !!! You are a BURNIAN …
    I suggest you try Skype …hmmmm…in Chile…why not…!!!
    The sky is the limit…
    Easy to download and use…even I, the Civilian can do it !!!

    VIVA BURNIANS… 2 days away from you …and my eyes were BURNing …
    if this is not LOVE …I don’t what it is…IMO…

    P.S OurPatricia …You have sent so much good energy …look at me.
    ANDREWB…BURNIANS in the UNIVERSE…come on …

  • a civilian-mass audience

    as MARCIN said…yes, you are all photographers and you have to love your tools somehow. Good cooperation is always based on love.

    VIVA !!!

  • Justin, I do like the canonet, the 40 1.7 is super nice. The battery has always been the weak link, I’d suggest skipping it and either guestimating or using handheld. It’s a lot of fun.

  • David

    No rush. Have a safe fly and wish you great time with your family :).


  • a civilian-mass audience

    and don’t forget to hug our favorite, the ONE, the only MOTHER of BURN !!!

    Socrates, MRS.M.HARVEY …I hope I am correct…

    WE LOVE HER !!!

  • Old film cameras are a lot of fun. Even for people fully wedded to Digital, a regular outing with your favourite film camera can, and should, be an absolute joy. Which is why we do this thing in the first place right?

  • a civilian-mass audience


    thanks again for the “Untitled” photos…Jet lag seems to be here to stay !!!
    Shall we wait for visuals from your old film cameras …or you will proceed with some M9
    the choice is yours…
    VIVA !!! Welcome back to Europia …

  • Here you go David, my IIIF wearing a VCII meter and a Canon 50 f/1.8 lens.


  • a civilian-mass audience


    It looks like you came back from the war zone .


  • Tom; I used an old Yashica Electro for a while and for an old camera it’s meter was amazing; even when using velvia in really contrasty light.

  • Ross, I think that was my first 35mm when I was 10 or so but I do not remember! I do remember the ugly hard leather case with more accuracy, and the feel of the focusing tab between my fingers and the annoyingly difficult aperture ring. Ah yes, and the feel and sound of stripped film sprockets when I didn’t push the release hard enough before rewind and bulled my way through. It had two little exposure lights on top and even then, I tended to ignore them. I do know I took many terrible photos accurately exposed with it though. I still do the same, except I take a few wonderful photos horribly exposed as well.

  • Tom; “except I take a few wonderful photos horribly exposed as well”

    A meter is just a guide to experimentation anyway :-)

  • I agree, Ross :-) I remember that awesome single Tom posted back in July of the kid at the swimming hole. IIRC from post, his meter was off by a couple of stops…

    I’ve actually got 3 Electros I need to work on – 2 gifted to me and one I picked up for peanuts. I hope to get at least one working properly, as they have Electro-cal problems (hah! I kill me…)

  • Justin; I love that series he shot at the swimming hole too; magic.

  • ok you guys have drawn me into tech talk…tonight i have been testing..or , i should say we…i leave tomorrow for Colorado and holidays with mom…so, tonight was my holiday dinner with Bryan and Michelle…now Bry has just returned from a 5 country marathon ad shooting with the 5D…and i today have the M9…and i have also been shooting with the D700…so, what a perfect test …all three with the same subject, same light, same everything…well, not scientific , but definitely practical..we would have downloaded and set up a comparison right here on Burn, but alas too much vodka, too much wine, too late, too rainly, too winter, too whatever for any of us to have the energy to do so tonight…i mean, i gotta pack, and check orbitz and see when my flight is tomorrow…but, maybe we can show this test in the next few days..we are talking a low light test mixing firelight, neon light, and tungsten lamp light..no flash…iso’s on the dslr’s at 2500 and 800 on the M9….anyway we will see…we already have our opinion on what looked best just from the back on the screen…which one you think we like best just from a quick look?? the answer must be worth a lot of money to one of these three companies…we are taking cash in plain envelopes with small bills from any of the three..

  • DAH…

    can you push the M9 past 800? i’m very curious to hear how it is at 1250/1600 in low ambient light…

    probably the d700 will handle low light the best (from a techie pov), BUT the M9 has to be the pick of the bunch???

    What not to Leica : )))

    have fun

  • P.S.

    how about Leica loaning out a couple of M9’s to 2010 EPF winner/ruuner up ???

  • SAM…

    Leica loaned out quite a few M8’s…i had a whole workshop class with M8’s spread out on the table for all to use…even my assistants were loaned M8’s……but, they have so far been a bit more conservative with the M9…i will try to get free cameras, etc for the EPF finalists this year…

  • JIM…

    cool…yea, that’s it…i have my original one too, but no longer use it..i never had the meter you have…i just used the guide on the back of the film box…4 or 5 basic exposures from bright sun to dark cloudy…available light a total guess….remember that?

  • DAH…

    thats great!

    and while your around…
    i’ve started shooting my new project, have some material i can show you…

    i’m keen to get your opinion on the best way to continue my approach,
    before i immerse myself in the new year…

    i have a few specific questions…


  • 5D, D700, M9… 1200, 1600, 25,000 ASA (er, uh, ISO!) clean, low light images.

    Guarantee in no time people with D3, D700, etc… will tire of the smooth clean images and will be begging for more noise, more “grain”… PS conversion of some sort. I don’t know… don’t do Photoshop… probably already exists?

  • all please note: http://www.pdnphotooftheday.com/ yes, our Mike Courvoisier featured on PDN


    yes, after the holidays we can chat….


    Congratulations!!! I love your Broadway series and am delighted to see it receive the recognition it deserves. I still remember seeing the prints you brought along to LOOK3 last June. Great stuff. Now I want to see an exhibit and, when you’re ready, the book!


  • For New Yorkers…There’s a show in town that I’d love to see: an exact recreation of the Bruce Davidson “East 100th Street” exhibit that John Szarkowski mounted at MoMA in 1970. It’s at the Howard Greenberg Gallery, 41 E. 57th St. until Jan. 2. You folks are SO fortunate to live where you do!


    Happy holidays to all. Travel safely…


  • DAH

    great, i’ll prepare…
    looking forward to it,

    have a great holiday


  • David: thanks a lot for your Skype edit offer! sounds great. If you can give me your mail so we can schedule the skype day, it’ll be just fine. Of course been a non tech guy means I’ve never use skype, but there is always a first chance (don’t ever use jaja.com, you’ll pay a huge bill..). No problem after Christmas. In fact whenever you can.
    Yes please visit Chile, but no next year, because I’ll be living in Madrid for a year (are you going to Madrid next year??)

    Lets say for the record that I was the first or second blogger…I deserve to be in some kind of honor board..:) just kidding. Im back, but never went.

    Again thanks and can’t wait for meeting via skype.


  • JORGE…

    i have an exhibition of new American Family work in Madrid from April -June 2010….perhaps we meet in Madrid?


    Nice series! I especially like the ‘Broadway Bridge’ picture. Brings back many memories, though it’s been quite some years since I ambled along Broadway. As a series, I missed what were for my formative years and wild, wasted youth a few crucial Broadway neighborhoods…Broadway at 96th to 100th Sts., Broadway at 116th St., Broadway at 125th, and Broadway up around 160th St…. I’d love to see what you can capture in those loci of my own ancient personal history.

  • Michael C., BROADWAY, my favorite is the one on Bleeker street, with the woman lit up amidst the shade and the threatening row of shadows from the building.

    I wrote a song about that street in 1977, which started like this:

    Down on Bleeker Street
    my baby got to split
    I was lying in the alley
    when she…. Kissed me away!

    No, really, no bullshit, 1977, and you are lucky you get the words only, no singing….. :-))))

  • DAH,

    Since others have mentioned submitting images, I am also letting you know that I have submitted a single image for burn. Hope you like it!

  • a civilian-mass audience

    the master printer …!!! I know Christmas is almost there…BUT can we have some more of the
    TECH talk…I have no clue …BUT I LOVE tech talk…5D, D700, M9… 1200, 1600, 25,ASA,ISO,M9 ,M10
    SAM …Viva new project…

    WHAT NOT TO LOVE…TECH TALK is here to stay…!!!

    P.S I was so tired of myself lately…BURNIANS are thirsty for TTP…!!!
    HAPPY SPIRITS …may the Universe be good with YOU ALLLLLLL

  • DAH. Totally depends what glass they are wearing. But assuming they are all wearing the best glass they can carry I would say, straight off the screen with no post.
    Color accuracy: Nikon-leica-canon
    feel: Leica/nikon -canon
    Work up the images and print them though and in a blind testing I doubt anyone could tell the difference.

  • CATHY…

    thanks…but, no need to submit and then also mention it here…the whole issue of “missing Ian” was simply a matter of me not clicking the right button on my new email system….it started with me saying i did not recall Ian ever submitting ,Ian mentioned he had submitted, i said i could not find it in search, and then lo and behold it was, as i suspected, my search method..and to be totally blamed on my new system…laughing…there was never anything missing, and Ian’s work had been considered (i later remembered the pics, but did not remember they were Ian’s)

    if you receive an auto reply back saying picture in , then picture is in, and it is literally impossible for it to go un-viewed…..pow wow Taos??

  • Congrats to Mike!

    Regarding Leica which I’ve used a bit in the past. For me the difference is that if you use the best glass, for example new asph glass. They will be as sharp wide open as many other lenses are at say f/5.6-8. And the bokeh IS better.

  • I like Michael’s Broadway pictures. It’s tough to see something new in such an oft-photographed place and he manages.

    I’m looking forward to seeing the results of the Nikon/Leica/Canon tests. I hope there’s a comparable shot with a 35mm or so lens wide open.

    But as far as what you see on the back of the camera, comparing those will only tell you which camera’s software produces the best tiny jpeg for display purposes only.

  • David: absolutely, yes in Madrid! Do you prefer we do the edit in sight in Madrid, or via Skype?

    best regards

  • I didn’t want to comment under the main photo because I don’t have anything constructive to say about it. Nothing particularly destructive either, I just don’t really understand the allure of those type photos. But I do find the larger narrative question interesting. That makes two recent burn features where “abandonment” was the theme and abandoned houses was the subject. And I know I’ve come across many other examples of the same subject/theme combination. People linked to similar projects under Eva Morgenstern’s essay and Bruce Gilden’s Detroit multimedia piece are fresh in my memory.

    Is it the theme of “abandonment” that has such universal resonance or the subject of empty old houses? Or both and they triple in power when combined? Hmmmm. I don’t know. It’s unlikely I’ll be doing any project photographing old houses anytime soon, but “abandonment” could be interesting. So here. I threw this together in the last 15 minutes or so from photos I took over the past couple days, plus one old one to make it really corny. If anything communicates “abandonment” more than empty houses, it has to be broken dolls. Put a broken doll in an empty house and you’ll really have something.


  • DAH and Jorge,

    If you guys meet in Madrid, I’d love to join you and be your cicerone (remember we talked about a beer David?). Of course I could take also advantage of the situation and show you some of my printed work… ;)
    Would that be ok?


  • Hey everyone …

    geartalk?! Wow :)

    Please would you all check your junk-folders in case you did not get an email from me some 10 hours ago? I did not have the time to write individually, sorry.

    In case you want a test run, go for it on Sunday.


  • Michael, you might want to check out Chris Crawford’s latest project on “The Dollhouse.” An interesting take on abandonment featuring dolls found in an abandoned house.


  • Nice link jim. I think as a series they lose their power, but nearly all of them can stand as images alone.


  • I agree. Chris is a fine art photographer, so I don’t think they are really intended as an essay, per se.

  • Lassal

    I saw it :) looks great!

  • Thanks, Lassal, it was indeed, and, arghhh!…. Again in the spam (junk) folder.

  • a civilian-mass audience

    “Here’s the advice Sir William Osler gave the students at Yale: “Live neither in the past nor in the future, but let each day absorb all your interest, energy and enthusiasm. The best preparation for tomorrow is to live today superbly well.””

    William Osler (Canadian Physician, 1849-1919)


    P.S please, don’t abandon BURN yet…ENJOY, every minute !!!
    THANK YOU from My Civilian heart…LASSAL …I am dancing !!!

  • Looks like Sir William heard Grandma Osler say “life is short… Enjoy!” but had to rerwrite it so someone can still quote him a hundred years later….. :-)))))

  • a civilian-mass audience

    HERVE…where are you???
    WE LOVE YOU !!!

  • Lassal
    beer coming up.
    “beer” (bear) with me, I am more used to whisky and wine – and water of course “www” :)

  • now I started not only to talk to myself but to write to myself too.
    Definitively strong stress symptoms! :)))

    my comment was for YOU of course.

  • Hey Jim, thanks for the link. I knew that had to be out there somewhere. Probably a thousand times.

    Still, I’m holding out for an abandoned house, a broken doll… and kittens. Throw in an empty old whiskey bottle with a faded 4 Roses label and I’ll really be impressed.

    That’s probably a scene from my childhood, btw. If I would have worked and saved for a Leica instead of all those damned motorcycles, I’d have that shot.

  • a civilian-mass audience


    do you like your beer Dark or Light …???

    HOW can we not LOVE you !!!


    I did get your mail…Have you managed to gets ome sleep lately…almost there!!!!

    TO ALL-

    I have just been back in Brussels after a week into the UK for work and, while waiting at the airport looking at “press” shop, what a pleasant suprise I had to find an excellent photo magazine called VIEW featuring the work of AUDREY BARDOU with a nice interview as well regarding her essay “15 minutes”…


    Congrats Audrey!..Your work thre looked very good next to other great photographers…. J’attends tjs ta visite ici :):):). A bientot j’espere.


  • Congratulations Audrey!

    And Mike C!!

  • Hey Eric… how’s it going?

  • managed to secure an honorable mention here (scroll down to see) for Bucharest work: http://www.heyhotshot.com/blog/2009/12/18/hey-hot-shot-2009-second-edition-announcement/

  • “…for some reason these cameras just make you want to take pictures…i have never been able to identify exactly why that is, but it is true…”

    Because you have spent gobs of money on the thing and so you are not going to sit there gathering dust? That sounds plausible to me; it’s why I use my snowblower.

  • a civilian-mass audience


    My favorite French …”family” …
    I am SPEECHLESS and proud …again !!!

    and DAVIN,
    hey…you are a Hot Shot …indeed !!!

    Congratulations BURNIANS!!!

    It seems that everyone is busy …lately…
    It’s the Spirit of Celebration
    It’s the Spirit of Appreciation

    HAPPY HOLIDAYS and BURNing Moments …oime

  • a civilian-mass audience

    MR.HARVEY …We are sending good energy To MAMA BURNIAN …

    as ourPATRICIA said …Be safe out there…

    your BURN Family

  • a civilian-mass audience

    I LOVE your passing parade…I wish I can read as fast …as I eat !!!

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Lou Reed and Luciano Pavarotti Perfect Day 2001


    Goodnight form Grecoland.

  • leica have the edge on lens sharpness.. but certainly the m8 and m8.2 sensor performed badly.
    nikon d700 is the best all rounder..

    this RAW comparison site is interesting to play with..

  • http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image-Quality-Database/Compare-cameras/%28appareil1%29/176|0/%28appareil2%29/296|0/%28appareil3%29/250|0/%28onglet%29/0/%28brand%29/Canon/%28brand2%29/Nikon/%28brand3%29/Leica

  • Davin, congratulations on Hot Shots part deux. To have anything chosen there that is even vaguely editorial or street in nature, as opposed to purely conceptual and sterile, is quite an accomplishment. There is some work they have chosen that rises well above because of the importance of the concept but to me, very little I find personally appealing. It is a gallery process so that is to be expected I suppose but I wish I liked the actual photography more. I’ll take a “shot to the gut” (DAH) over a heady intellectual shrug any day. Apparently I am not “with it.” Cheers to not pandering to either the critics or the masses but instead following your own path. Now go find a nice girl who is making her own way too :))

    p.s. Yale sucks.

  • p.s.s. But I do like Crewdson … i mean if you’re going to do it, friggin’ do it all the way, you know?

  • p.s.s.s. “Why is there a naked women in the doorway?” – John Vink

  • CIVI, here is an oldy but goody from the archives.

    There are twelve days of Christmas, and I’m sure if you’ve somehow managed to forget that fact over the course of the year retailers from one end of this our Great Republic to the other will forcibly refresh your memory for the next few weeks. Whether you want to or no, you will hear in great detail about lords leaping and laying ladies while pipers pipe and voyeuristic geese pay five gold rings just to watch. I’ve always wondered why just about every picture of Times Square before its current incarnation as Disney World North had a goose or two in the background. There were just too many of them for this to be some sort of odd ornithological coincidence.

    But avian porn is not the subject of this screed, so let us move on before the police arrive. The subject of today’s lecture is the twelve days of Christmas and what they mean to me in five easy lessons. For the better part of the late and deeply unlamented twentieth century it was the fashion among a certain set of people to bemoan the commercialization of Christmas, that the demands of Mammon were stifling the essentially religious nature of the holiday, even to the point where that great philosopher and theologian Linus Van Pelt had to explain to Charlie Brown what Christmas was all about by quoting the Gospel according to Luke. Charlie Brown did not seem impressed by this argument, falling, as it did, between commercials for Benson & Hedges cigarettes and the new 1967 Ford Mustangs.

    The fact of the matter is that Christmas has always been a commercial bonanza, a state of affairs that began when the Roman Emperor Constantine decided that maybe Christianity wasn’t such a bad idea after all. Constantine came to this conclusion after he’d had a dream the night before the battle of the Milvian Bridge in which he saw a shield emblazoned with a Christian cross bearing the words IN HOC SIGNO VINCES (in this sign you shall conquer). After the alarm slave went off the next morning, clocks being fairly scarce in those days, Constantine put Christian crosses on his soldiers’ shields; as the enemy army outnumbered by about four to one, Constantine figured any edge he could get was a good one; and then proceeded to march out and stomp on the competition big time.

    Having won the crown in a pretty convincing fashion—Constantine didn’t have to dangle Chad over a cliff or anything—the new emperor decided to return the favor God did him and make Christianity the state religion of the Roman Empire. Once a faith exclusively practiced by the most rejected and despised elements of Roman society, the Christian faith became the most inclusive faith in the Mediterranean world since now everyone and their Uncle Bob had to join whether they wanted to or not, everyone, that is, except Constantine himself. Unlike, for example, Marshal Feng, the twentieth century Chinese warlord who converted to Methodism and then decided that his army should come to the Lord as well, and sped up his army’s salvation by having them stand in formation while he baptized them with holy water sprayed from a fire hose, Constantine chose to exempt himself from the revival, correctly figuring that if he stayed a pagan he could go on doing all the fun stuff that pagans got to do like murdering his political opponents, seizing their property, and selling their families into slavery without this sort of thing bothering his conscience all that much. If he was still a pagan, after all, who could blame him for acting like one?

    Our current holiday problem started when Constantine decided that a holiday celebrating the birth of Jesus would be just the thing to make himself look good on The O’Reilly Factor. There was, however, one small problem: no one knew when Jesus was born. The Gospels simply say that the birth occurred when Quirinius was the governor of Syria. This might have been enough information in the hands of a competent archivist to pinpoint a likely date, but competent archivists were hard to find in ancient Rome due to the Roman mob’s insatiable appetite for watching overweight, middle-aged clerical types with the wife, the 2.7 kids, the dog, and a thirty year mortgage on a house in the suburbs try to stab each other to death with quill pens in the Coliseum.

    Constantine, having no solid information to work with, asked the Senate and the people of Rome what they thought of July 15th as the date for Christmas. The Senate and the people of Rome, mindful of the fact that Constantine had the bad habit of feeding people who disagreed with him to lions and tigers and bears, oh my, for the entertainment of the people in the cheap seats, told Constantine that July 15th was a wonderful idea. Roman retailers, on the other hand, mindful of losing the 4th of July and Bastille Day sales, told him that while his idea was wonderful, it would be even more wonderful at some other time of the year. One clever gent who owned a shoe store on the Appian Way suggested, after giving the matter some thought, that the Emperor make December 25th the date for his new holiday.

    Now it was Constantine’s turn to object. At a meeting of the Imperial Chamber of Commerce, he quite rightly pointed out that December 25th was already a holiday, the feast of Invictus Sol and his brother Herschel, the inventors of the pneumatic Roman army chariot wheel and can opener, a device upon which the good fortune of the Roman Empire did not rely in the slightest. Then Constantine had the Pope read the relevant portions of the Gospel of Luke. The Pope stumbled through the text, His Holiness being unused to reading anything longer than an address; he had come to Rome to get a job in the Post Office in Gaul and wound up as Pope for lack any other available employment; and after he finished reading Constantine asked the retailers how they proposed to get around the Gospel’s clearly pointing to a summer date for Christ’s birth. After all, first century Judean shepherds did not keep flocks of sheep out on barren hillsides by night in the middle of winter just on the off chance that a passing heavenly host with some free time on their hands would wander by belting out their rendition of Handel’s ‘Hallelujah Chorus’ in digitally remastered stereophonic sound. Clearly, December 25th did not meet the high burden of theological and historical proof required for such an august feast day.

    Then someone, possibly the shoemaker who first suggested the idea of the 25th, or maybe his twin brother—no one could really tell them apart—told the Emperor something that emperors, as a class, love to hear: he was emperor, therefore he could put the holiday anywhere he felt like putting it. And so he did, on the 25th day of December, the high burden of historical and theological proof bending slightly in deference to Constantine’s need for campaign contributions; not everyone in the Roman Empire thought that Constantine’s being emperor was such a good idea and he needed money fast; armies, then and now, don’t come cheaply.

    Well, over the centuries more and more days got added to Christmas; travel was slow in those days and most people had to use oxcarts that only got twelve miles to the dry gallon of oats, despite the best efforts of the ruminant companies to meet new government mileage standards. The retailers, however, loved the ever-lengthening Christmas season and did their level best to stretch the season out even more. Matters came to a head in 800 A.D., when on the first day of Christmas the Pope crowned Charlemagne Holy Roman Emperor and Charlemagne discovered that he and his entourage were stuck in Rome until the end of Christmas, which occurred sometime in the middle of April. This was a major source of annoyance for Charlemagne, who wanted to go home for the holidays, and so in his third official act, the first two being an announcement that alternate side of the street parking rules were in effect and the world’s first pooper scooper law, Charlemagne decreed that Christmas would only last for twelve days.

    Retailers throughout Europe objected, which seems to be a theme here, saying that a twelve day Christmas season would drive them out of business; there wasn’t enough time for the scribes to pump out advertising copy in a twelve day season. Charlemagne said, tough luck, pal, in Latin and French, and doesn’t almost everything sound better in Latin and French, and then left town with the imperial crown in his luggage, as well as a couple of counterfeit Rolexes he’d bought from a Senegalese immigrant who’d set up his blanket in front of St. Peter’s Basilica.

    The retailers, of course, did not go down without a fight. They’ve been pushing the seasonal envelope ever since Charlemagne rode Out of Town for a second place finish in the fifth race at the Roman Aqueduct. This explains why today, in our modern postindustrial information society, the official Christmas season begins with the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade and why we still have an annoying carol about the twelve days of Christmas. The unofficial Christmas season, of course, begins near the end of August. This may be why everyone is so happy when Christmas finally arrives—it means that we won’t hear about the damn day again for at least another eight months, something for which we should all shout, Hallelujah and Happy Holidays to all and to all, a good night!

  • And I find it very strange that I actually enjoy Bob Dylan’s new Christmas album while shopping … but only the best stores play it.

  • Félicitations, cher Audrey! Vous le méritez!!!


  • Tom;

    You may be interested in this photographic work that won a prestigous art award here in NZ…

    http://www.wallaceartstrust.org.nz/?s1=wallace art awards&s2=Marcus Williams and Susan Jowsey 2009



    I am doing well… Thanks for asking… Life in Europe seems more hectic somehow with constant travels but I am just starting a 2 weeks break so I will not speak about work :):). I have started a new project that I plan on working with some more dediaction early next year… Maybe something to show in 3/4 months… Hope you are doing well also. What are you working on these days????


  • Ross

    Um, yah, I get it.

    Man, “like my new rug?”

    girl, “take one step closer and I’ll scream”.

    Deep, cutting edge.

  • Gordon; a damn good prize too!

  • HEY everybody,

    beer is up – and this one is on us … :)))

    Go to the hidden page and scroll dooooown.
    Please use it if you like it!

    What not to love?!
    (email coming)

  • Lassal…
    You and Haik are Heroes…
    ‘night from Cyprus…

  • Thodoris,

    thanks :)))))
    But we are just framing something.
    YOU are doing the pictures …

    you there?
    A big hug to you!!!

    (back to work)

  • ROSS -Thanks for the link, you guys really do like sheep!

  • ERIC…

    Good to hear. Look forward to your next project. The boxing one still moves me. Just wonderful.

    I’ve got a couple assignments from Maryland Life I need to finish up, and as always the river! Great Falls, C&O Canal. Stuck at home for a day or two… major blizzard in the DC area. Might post some images from this in a few days.

    Enjoy your break!


  • In NZ mutton skin toupees are all the rage in ……. Ross has one with the letter B embroided, he reckons it stands for burn but the reality is that is means Baa baa………… despite that I quite like the winning artwork.

  • ROSS,

    All prepared? Wanna test? NOW??

  • Imants; I told you that in confidence. Baaaaa humbug to you too… :-)

  • Lassal; Sent you a message

  • a civilian-mass audience


    it’s a beautiful Cold Raining day !!!

    BURNIANS …can you feel it ??? I am looking for some bottles…hmmmm….
    I can’t find …I had to save the planet …RECYCLE …
    I am so happy …and I am excited…I couldn’t sleep well…

    Can I sing now or no???

  • a civilian-mass audience

    James Brown – E I Feel Good

    Let’s dance… I know I am early BUT I am a civilian …I can’t help it…

    I am DANCING !!!

  • Civi, got any snow over there?

  • I don’t want to put a downer on things, but I have just come across this and had to share.


    one strong message from this is, I paraphrase “when I stopped chasing success and recognition, when I let go these objectives and concentrated on excellence, everything arrived on its own.”



  • a civilian-mass audience


    where are you in Italy???

    It’s coming in my town. Athens is doing ok.

    Are you coming over??? I am still waiting for PANOS…hmmm…I wonder…:)))

  • In the Tuscan boonies, stuck at home, no Greece for me :(.. panos might have found a bear.. or a beer ;)

  • a civilian-mass audience


    you are such a …how can I say it…???
    I better read my books as MR.SIDNEY suggested …
    BUT …yes… you are a skeptist BUT a SPIRITUAL one…

    VIVA…!!! I am busy…2,000.000.0000 pieces of baklava …and I am still going…

    P.S i might BURN them a little !!!

  • a civilian-mass audience

    EVA…VIVA !!!

    OIME…we are not far…TUSCAN beauty…


  • Morning from Cyprus…

    On Friday a couple of great books arrived…

    I finally got my hands on “The Jazz Loft Project” book, and it was definitely worth the wait. Wasn’t blown away by the pictures of jazz musicians as I expected (sdhjfgsdhfsd remains my favorite, no contest) but it’s overwhelming to take a sneak-peak into the raw material presented here by Sam Stephenson (who’s also responsible for Smith’s “Pittsburgh Project” book) and his amazing team of researchers/collaborators. Smith is one of my favorite photographers of all times/genres and I find his quixotic attitude towards his massive and uncompleted projects very appealing. His all consuming approach to photography is totally inspiring and any info about his thought process/workflow is always welcome—even if (as it seems) the man in person was unbearable…

    The second book is titled “New York Sleeps” and it’s one of best cityscapes books I’ve ever seen.

    Going out for the day… have a good one…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    VIVA HAIK !!!

    I can help it …do I talk too much…

    PANOS would say …

    Can I sing now???

  • a civilian-mass audience


    please…come back …We want to hear more about the book …

    Go Cyprus !!!

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Howlin’ Wolf – Shake It For Me

    I start the shaking …!!!

    P.S I know … it’s early …:)))
    But I can’t wait no more…:)))

  • Damn… I’m really bad with names and I usually put a place holder such as the “sdhjfgsdhfsd” above when I’m writing a comment (so that I don’t lose my track of thought) which I replace before posting…
    Oh, well…
    Anyhow, sdhjfgsdhfsd was a placeholder for William Claxton…

    hi Civi…

  • Align before singing. We have alignment issues.

  • a civilian-mass audience

    I will be back

    I am going to buy some organic water…I am expecting 3,000,0000.0000
    Civilians …:)))

    LOVE to BURN !!!

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Ok, where shall I buy the alignment…???

    We don’t have Wall-MART in Greece…???

    I will be back !!!

    STAY tuned…I am going to find an alignment…

  • a civilian-mass audience


    I will be back…
    THANK YOU !!!!

    P.S HAIK sent me …to find an alignment …

  • CIVI,
    “I am busy…2,000.000.0000 pieces of baklava …and I am still going…”

    Baklava…….. man I miss that, as a kid I was brought up in Cairo and then moved to Cyprus. Both places had their versions of it. I remember going to the shops selling Baklava I couldn’t get enough. MMMMMMM MMMMMMMM.

    My wife recently did some research with some high end Baklava makers in London, she got given a sample box to bring back for me…what a treat.



  • Lassal, Haik, All

    Great work! :)

  • My wife and I just sent out the last of the Christmas baklava…….just a hint, the OBX crew better visit the main lady down there before it’s all gone….DAH, you better tell her to save some for your return….

    Aitken, we have found a bakery that produces it for restaurants and grocery stores – true traditional lebanese version….real pistachios (or you can get walnut)….they make many of the traditional middle eastern pastries, not sure if they ship internationally, but they might….it’s very, very good…


    good morning light all!

  • Lassal….Haik…..

    it’s almost time! How awesome!

    What not to love?

  • Shit almost everyday I teach a new criminals! A new terrorist!
    I feel really badly… :(

  • There really is no way to prevent governments from taking away our freedom. They have bigger guns. The press is a great inconvenience to governments.

  • marcin..
    we´re criminals for sure.. even when we´re not breaking the law we´re planning to.

    although.. isn´t the definition of a terrorist someone who commits an act of terror?
    it´s not really possible to label us terrorist suspects until we do something blatant with the intention of committing a terrorist act.. is it?

    thankfully the law in england is still quite clear.
    the trouble is that the police don´t care about that.

  • jim..
    that´s why in england is is now against the law to film or photograph a policeman..

    the levels of control over the media needed to sustain extreme communism are not much greater than those needed to control “free” market / capitalism.. it´s just that in the west they have better p.r. and much a more subtle / psychologically aware method of control.. freedom fries.. freedom fries.. repeat.. repeat.. terror.. terror.. terrrrrrrrrr…

    it´s gently-gently until we kick the ball out of play, and then we get a slap round the head from the ref.

  • http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/8389756.stm
    and still – since april when he died – no one has been taken to task over the death of ian tomlinson..

    shoved violently to the ground..
    in an unprovoked attack on his way home from work..
    which was caught on film..
    then a heart attack..

    shoved by a random, balaclava masked and violent individual
    a police man..

    and now wer cannot film or photograph policemen..

  • First the paparazzi made the huge mess and now a terrorists. I don’t feel a gentleman with camera like HCB I feel like criminal who
    1. take pictures a people without rights
    2. take pictures a buildings without rights
    3. Take pictures of everyday history without rights

  • hi all –

    I had a small hand in this as one of the editors.

    In her forward to the book, Ami Vitale writes ” Photojournale has collected work from residents of each country. These images give us a glimpse into lives we might not otherwise see and emphasize not how different we are but rather our similarities. The intentions seem to be to get past mere headlines to try to get a truer sense of who we all are. Perhaps now, more than ever, the need to get beyond the stereotypes and dramatic images and instead allow people to tell their own stories in a humanistic way.”

    So there it is.

    And here it is: http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/1091828

  • a civilian-mass audience

    CAn I start Singing ???

  • There really is no way to prevent governments from taking away our freedom

    Freedom (thirst for, especially, if you don’t have it) is part of the human make-up, Jim.

    There is nothing governments can do to prevent that (and we are our governments, in this part of the world). lest we accept to be deprived of it, and relinquish governing ourselves.

    Funny how these type of comments always originate from places who are spoiled with freedom, including freedom of press hundred of millions in this world can only dream about, and some even do die for…

  • Hola Marcin. Remember taking such 1,2,3 pictures in Poland under Jaruzelsky and predecessors? How much freer was it, compared to today?

  • No problem shooting cops in SF, David B.

    I think all these laws you guys are talking about, which are in mo way, as global as you seem to imply (see, one difference is, in the communist world, all spaces were controlled and overseen), are quite indicative of the places you/we are live in. In short, we need to take a good look at ourselves, probably more than our governments.

    Essays about cops and cops life are not missing, frankly. It’s just that these photographers put time, effort, and dedication towards their subject. It may be frustrating, but I am not sure that to one of us, not being able to shoot a cop while walking down a street on a day outing or spur of the moment, is an indication that Freedom of the press is at stake.

    Lately, if I read here and elsewhere, this is not governments conspiring against them that scares the traditional, independants too, media outfits, but how information and its dissemination (especially photos taken down the street!!!) is being exponentially multiplied, outside of the once required channels.

    Great multi media piece….
    love your use of color….
    the info!!!
    my only comment is about the voice over..
    it sounded a little tired…
    and it is tricky,
    putting on the actors shoes :) :)
    great piece!!!!!!!

  • Charlie Mahoney’s multimedia piece on the Maldives is quite simply one of the very best journalistic multimedia pieces employing still photographs and sound that I have ever seen anywhere… not just on Burn, but on the New York Times site, National Geographic, or anywhere else. After watching it twice with the sound, I had to watch it through once without just to concentrate on the consistently stunning quality of the individual photographs. Congratulations to DAH for scoring the permission to post this on Burn. This sets the bar here higher than ever before, I think… it makes me want to go out and take pictures to tell stories, but it also makes me feel very humble indeed. Terrific work, Charlie… please keep doing it!

  • Herve

    A lot, really, You have to be a member of photography union to taking pictures, especially on the streets.


    Excellent stuff! pure clean colorful! NG tradition.
    hat off
    You are master

  • CIVI

    Start singing !
    It’s 5 am here, I’m waiting for the sun
    It’s going to be a bright sun shiny day !


  • a civilian-mass audience

    VIVA CHARLIE !!! Is this our CHARLIE…??? I am so proud …of you
    and all of you …BURNIANS !!!

    once more …
    Bridge Over Troubled Water (Live 1969)


  • a civilian-mass audience


    Give me the signal…What do you mean ???

    Are we ready ??? Shall I start…???I haven’t slept for 3 days???


  • a civilian-mass audience

    cAN i START???

  • I dont know is WE are ready…

    I’m READY…

  • a civilian-mass audience



  • a civilian-mass audience

    NTAN dara DAN


  • for sure we are not patient lol

  • a civilian-mass audience


  • a civilian-mass audience

    MATTHEW said …the rooster is out…
    I can’t wait any longer…
    I drunk 13 organic coffees …
    How long can one Civilian stay awake…???

  • Wow. The current essay is the best I’ve seen on Burn. Great photography, good production, and the voiceover ties the whole thing together. Interesting topic, well presented. Excellent work. Good job.

    The only thing I would like to see done is a slicker, more professional voiceover. The same script, just get a pro voiceover guy to do the voiceover.

  • Matty; I was up for midnight, well and truly awake don’t you worry :-)

  • a civilian-mass audience

    JIM wrote…:
    “…Wow. The current essay is the best I’ve seen on Burn. Great photography, good production, and the voiceover ties the whole thing together. Interesting topic, well presented. Excellent work. Good job…”


  • a civilian-mass audience


    MASS AUDIENCE…are you here???

  • a civilian-mass audience


  • a civilian-mass audience


  • a civilian-mass audience

    Anyway…I am gonna start with my AUSSIE’S



  • “for sure we are not patient lol”

    This is why we are photographers !!

    Ross, It’s going to be a loooong day…

  • Mattty; Well crack open a tinny, sit back and enjoy! :-)

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Is anybody going to listen to my …Skype…
    Wake up HAIKE …
    LASSAL in Germany is drinking beer
    with Reimar and some BURNIANS
    from Berlin…

    I need the signal

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Hey mates…??? Does it say 21st???

    Cause I might be wrong…too much coffee mixed with beer and baclava…
    I am not mu usual Civi…hicks…

  • I’m done with the coffee….

  • Oh yeah, It’s the 21st already…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Then, I am just a civilian …and I say …


    Stage freeze…I got stage freeze

  • a civilian-mass audience

    happy b-day and merry christmas


  • 8am on the 21st here. The day dawned overcast and soon to rain; a typical NZ summer. Send us over some Aussie sun Matty. Mind you; you live in Tassie don’t you? So you may be in the same weather predicament as us! :-)

  • a civilian-mass audience
  • Charlie Mahoney:
    This essay is really good. The pictures have vivid colours, the voice over makes much sense to me.
    Congratulations for being published.
    (Don’t fear the comments, however ;-)

  • No No Rossy, It’s all sun down here today Mate..

    The sun is shining and some where in the distance I can hear Civi singing !

  • a civilian-mass audience

    WE LOVE YOU AUSSIE’S …stay tuned…
    I feel like a few Kangaroos loose in the top paddock…
    You are a Huge BURNing part

    did you see the twitter account …???

    What a beautiful day !!!

  • a civilian-mass audience


    HAPPY BIRTHDAY BURNIANS…I sound like him…hmmm

  • Happy Burn Day!! Well, over in NZ and Australia anyway.

  • Okay, I’ll be the downer. That Maldive piece is a good example of what I don’t like about so many of these photo-centric multimedia projects. Good photographs in the service of a very bad tv news piece. The segment where the narrator parrots the President and then segues into a voice-of-God-out-of -the-mouth-of-a-young-white-foreigner-with-a-parachute litany of what the Maldivians must do to overcome their problems is not good journalism, to put it charitably. At the very least, the piece’s producer should find a local to mouth the government line. Better yet, actually strive for objectivity and get some independent local opinion on tape. The parts where the narrator cites neutral statistics work fairly well with the photos. The parts where he solemnly passes on the charismatic young leader’s wisdom, not so much.

    But even putting those 60 Minutes-style Journalism 101 quality questions aside, my larger problem with the piece, and multimedia projects I see in general, is that it seems like the producer’s ambition is limited to creating a very good tv news piece. I’d like to see (figure out) a more ambitious way to attack the medium. There are some very good photos there. The medium should be serving them, not the other way around.

  • DAH and Anton, When you guys started Burn, did you have a roadmap of where you wanted/expected it to go? What’s been the biggest surprise?

    Charlie’s essay represents some of the wonderful reportage work that I really enjoy on Burn. In such a location, shooting a beautiful shot can be like shooting fish in a barrel, but there is some real depth in the imagery.

    Charlie, great to see your work here. Really well done.


    I can’t agree about getting a ‘professional voiceover guy’ for Charlie Mahoney’s Maldive essay. The so-called ‘professional’ narrative voices one hears in American television and radio… and I categorically include PBS and NPR in that group… are terrible. They are insincere, slick, vacuous…too ‘professional’ sounding, almost without exception. Their delivery, and the boiler-plate scripts they usually read, are a major factor in the general mediocrity of American mainstream documentary. For all that Charlie Mahoney may not sound slick, HE is the one talking… the guy who went, saw, photographed, wrote, and produced this piece. Give me that authenticity over the pros any day.

  • i’m with michael here, but had some other slight problems with the essay.

    pluses: good photographs, presentation etc.

    minuses: i felt that the author scratched the surface of lots of issues without really getting under the skin of any of them…. Charlie spoke about getting a “human story” across – while there were lots of people in the photographs, it felt like the photographer was spectating as oppose to integrating. some more intimate narratives within the wider subtext might have helped the viewer to feel more involved in the essay – how are individuals lives being affected by the climate change and other social issues?

    so – while i agree that the current essay is compelling visually, i was only interested on a superficial level in the actual stories.

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Sorry JIM, mates…I am trying to pace…

    LOVE you AUSSIE’S …Viva Australia…Viva New Zealand …Viva…
    ok…JIM…I am gonna take it easy…

    MR.HARVEY …thank you for the opportunity to be myself…I LOVE YOU
    ANTON…my boy…EVERY one of you … BURNIANS …in my heart…with my ouzo
    I wanna say …


    P.S Sorry for the above…in case that the storm takes the internet away…
    HAPPY BIRTHDAY …remember…keep shooting I am next to YOU…
    I am going …JIM…I am going …gone…

  • Charlie – love the pictures, and my knowledge of the Maldives just increased about a thousandfold.

    But I question the entire voiceover. I don’t think it adds anything that your written piece didn’t cover, and somehow the voice/music/ambient sound detracted from rather than amplified the pictures themselves. Maybe it has to do with my expectations – I prefer more of a separation between a photo essay and a TV piece; both can be very powerful, but are weakened in the hybrid form.

    One more thing – I would have edited more vigorously. Four pictures of diving kids? Do we really need to see the waiter making the entire circuit? For a video piece, of course. For a still-image show? I think not.

    (Please, though, let me emphasize that I really REALLY like the photos!)

  • a civilian-mass audience


    what do you have to say about that ???

    AUSSIE’S keep drinking…CHARLIE is on the screen …


  • A CIVILIAN MASS AUDIENCE — i’m sorry, i’m not an insider here — what’s is your story? you are greek or at least living in greece? you are a photographer? a fan? i just don’t get it…

  • a civilian-mass audience


    I am a dyslexic “macademian” lover of the visual…not a philosopher not a photographer…
    I have a house in Greece…where I live when I don’t travel… some azaleas…I make my own red wine…
    (not good)…My own olive oil (good, extra virgin)…I like to drink and eat and be with friends
    I do everything in moderation…but.BUT, BUT…

    I FART, I LOVE and I BURN like crazy…
    DQ…No need to get it…I am loud and I distract BURNIANS from their focus…BUT I love them…
    Now if you excuse me…I got to go…Welcome to the BURN family DQ…your Greek home is ready !!!

    P.S HAPPY BIRTHDAY BURN …1st year !!!…oime…another interview…

  • DQ,

    Civi is the morale officer in this neck of the online woods.

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Wait a minute…AKAKY …where is your book…
    I am waiting …and waiting…I can wait…Your book…signed by
    AKAKY B…love

    KATIE, ourPATRICIA,SIDNEY,BOBB,REIMAR…I will check my book …MORALE…hick..
    yes, when I don’t see double…



    Waouh!!! Very very nice… Good to see your essay on BURN my friend and you really did a great job here. I remember when you showed me some of the first pictures you took there… You have nicely worked the story and have been able to take it to the next level… I remember the early days when David was sharing some advices for your immigrant story in Barcelona, suggesting to add a few shots to set the context of the story. You have really assimilated all the learnings clearly and you have all the key shots in this essay that is very well constructed. I hope we will be able to take this beer together sometimes….

    By the way, I am sure that you must have seen the story that Francesco Zizola also did recently about the Maldives (called paradise in peril). Different story but some good photographs as well…


    Take Care Charlie and congrats again.


  • I think benroberts makes a good points. Sometimes I get too caught up in the mechanics of the journalism and forget the bigger picture. What is the story here? The Maldives sit one meter above sea level and scientists predict sea level will rise two or three meters in the near future (or something like that). What are the Maldivians doing about it? Becoming carbon neutral? Might as well pursue Guinness book world records for all the good that will do in swaying China and the United States to give up internal combustion. Realistically, what are the Maldivians doing about it? Heroin? Is there a connection between the youth’s hopelessness and the rising tide? That would be an interesting angle. But all I gather from the narration is that the President doesn’t want to talk about it. Either that or he simply has nothing to say.

    And you know, if that were a well-edited photo slideshow with maybe some ambient audio, I’d think it were one of the better projects I’d seen here. There are some very strong photos.

  • Eric;

    The Noor photographers certainly produce stunning work. I like their blend of art and story telling

  • Stuff like Charlie Mahoney’s A Troubled Paradise has a limited and but dedicated audience. But slick slide shows are not going to cut it with the general public these days, this may be good to show editors, magazines, other photographers but the public want to be informed directly via moving pictures and in a hurry. Not many would bother to stay to the end.
    It is time for the PJs to have a look at the wider audience and stopped navel gazing. Newspapers are successful due to variety ………a bunch of outdated slideshows of this nature on the plethora of online mags like Magnum, Blueeyes, VII, Burn get tedious.

  • Imants; Where do you see it going?

  • This has absolutely nothing to do with photography but everything to do with using your WILL to create the reality you want. The background is that I’ve lived with a diagnosis of multiple sclerosis for 21 years. Before that time I was an athlete who ran marathons, did long-distance biking and had been an excellent swimmer all my life. After my diagnosis I gave up all forms of exercise. In some ways, I just plain gave up period.

    In 2000 I had just begun to use a motorized scooter to get around but decided it was time to reclaim my body’s ability to swim. My first time in the pool I was shocked to find I couldn’t swim a stroke. All that summer I took water aerobics classes and gradually regained some strength and confidence in the water. By September I was swimming two lengths of the pool…and very happy to do so, I might add. That winter I signed up for indoor swimming at our local middle school.

    To cut to the chase, I’ve been a faithful swimmer winter and summer since that time. Bit by bit I increased my distance from 2 to 6 to 10, until I was up to 36 lengths, one-half mile. To be honest I thought that was the best I could do, so I stayed there. Until two weeks ago. That was when I was given a book to read – Zoe Koplowitz, “The Winning Spirit.” By the time I had finished this autobiography by a woman who walks with arm-brace canes because of MS but has now completed 22 NYC Marathons – each taking between 28-36 hours – I realized I’d let my mind limit what my body could do.

    So two weeks ago I started upping my lap swims with the goal of swimming 72 lengths or one mile. First I got up to 42 lengths, then to 48. Well, today I am unabashedly proud to say that I swam 74 lengths, just a bit over my one mile goal. And you know what? My body feels fine. Great, in fact. You know, that sweet body tiredness you get after a good workout.

    I’m sharing this to say YOU CAN DO IT TOO!!! Never say never. Don’t sell yourself short. Don’t let your mind limit your dreams. I think we would all agree that our beloved DAH has lived his life this way, and certainly has created Burn Magazine with this kind of unbridled belief in the impossible. And is in the process of creating CIRCUS in exactly the same way.

    So my holiday/New Year’s wish for each of us is that we dream BIG. Whatever that might mean to us. Just believe in yourself and make it happen. Think of Zoe and ask yourself if you’re dreaming BIG enough!

    hugs to all

  • a civilian-mass audience


    I am the only TEDIOUS in BURN…

    Breaking News…

    12:32 a.m in Greece…HAPPY BIRTHDAY BURN…!!!
    oime, I am dancing like Zorba…come on …BURNIANS…Shoot me …:)))

    P.S HAPPY BIRTHDAY HAIK …HAIK has a birthday …he is not 1 though…
    Smile photoBURNIANS …civilians are watching

  • a civilian-mass audience

    OurPATRICIA ~~~~~~~~~~~~


    P.S JIM …I hear you…pace,pace,pace


    You made my day, week and rest of the year!!

    Congratulations one zillion times!. :) :) :) :)

    Hugs and kisses.

  • Hugs and kisses back at ya, Ramon. So when are we going to skype again???

    And dear Civi, sleep well on this our almost Burn Birthday morning (your time)…


  • a civilian-mass audience


    I can’t sleep…I am so excited …one year …
    Well,I will keep dancing …ah, those BURNing feet…

    OPA !!!

  • Ross the iphone type of apps setup took no time in dominating the communication market especially with the younger audience. In between networking short sharp snippets of info, mainly provincially based is the norm already, “I saw…. I heard….. etc” A quick photo or video from an phone gets networked in a hurry.

    Recently I was buying flooring from a hardware store, my wife was in the same type of store in a different city, we took photos a short movie on the flooring each of us liked, discussed it as we walked around the stores and bought the flooring using that information.

    As far as the bigger picture is concerned most people will be happy to see short snappy news ads between movies, online sitcoms etc……. if they are interested.

  • Ok, I just dug through the archives to find DAH’s “Welcome to Burn” post….

    I was hoping it would have a timestamp, but it doesn’t. The first comment, however, does.

    Anyone remember who made the first comment on a dialogue thread here?


  • Very soon Patricia! I still have to tell you all about the Magnum Workshop in Barcelona.

    By the way, did I hear that you are aiming for 100 lengths in 2010, or was it my imagination… ;) ?

  • Actually, that previous post was also to let me see how the tiemstamp works….so, unless ith as been changed, the first comment was posted by and at the following time…

    December 21, 2008 at 3:24 pm

    If the timestamping system hasn’t changed, that time is eastern USA time…so we have about 21 more hours until that “anniversary”

    But who cares anyway! let’s start the party here sooner rather than later!

    what not to love?


  • a civilian-mass audience


    You Copy and Paste…I am in AWE…I LOVE YOU

    Let’s get the Party started…

    p.S Kiss your wife …tell her …it’s from the civilian ;)

  • a civilian-mass audience

    ok, Goodnight

    I am a civilian,
    i have to sleep…
    I am going to work
    to bring some green
    to buy your prints
    to buy your books
    I LOVE you All
    my BURNing pics…

    DAVID ALAN HARVEY …thank you

  • Wow, Patricia. I’m writing with tears in my eyes. What a wonderful message. Thanks, I needed that right now.


  • >>>>>>> cma: “I FART, I LOVE and I BURN like crazy…”

    fair enough, CMA, thanks for the reply. see you when i travel to that part of the world, oh person of mystery.

  • Patricia,

    you’ve just inspired me, being reminded once again how us people can be such wonderful, strong creatures. And that all is relative, which I sometimes forget myself, and sometimes feel angry at others for not taking the struggle that we navigate our ways through but rather make judgments on the random points we find ourselves at.


    I think thinking down the line of constructing something for the widest possible audience is the bane of our society. Where does it end if we keep editing the media MTV. I think, I hope, that we are smart enough to adapt to new ways of reading so that we can be directed by our imagination in creation rather than pulling things down to the lowest common denominator. When everything becomes entertainment then, well, already just hanging on by fingernails.

  • Imants;

    How do you think you would explain a relatively complex/sophisticated story in short snippets? That seems to be the bottleneck that would be incredibly difficult to overcome if your scenario comes about?

  • Gordon, I’m reminded of the transformational turn in the road you’ve recently taken with your photography. Ah yes, my friend, keep dreaming big!! And it will happen…

    Peter, I’m so glad my story spoke to you. Each of us could tell such a story, only the details would change. We are such surprising creatures.


  • The way general public wants to be informed and communicate overrides whatever form a PJ would like this communication take place. Sites like these breed insular people, burn is a place for self promoting people with their own wagon to push to get together……. it is hardly mainstream information or visuals. We talk about photography here and in general present unfinished media pieces, hardly what the average person finds interesting.
    Even Magnum VII etc have limited appeal outside the relatively few in world terms that are interested in the visual image. Most are over at youtube etc and that is evident with the amount of links on this site.

    The bottleneck isn’t that bad we just have to become better editors of information

  • Peter I think that is where you got is wrong, not all generations are pulling things down to the lowest common denominator. The kids of today are starting from scratch just as we did as kids except they have a huge arsenal of communication weapons that they are willing to yield and and thrust into this world of ours.
    media MTV is just a form of advertising to them, it had it’s day as it was TV based we have moved on from there

  • Imants.

    listening to the writer of ‘Wire’ and ‘Six feet under’ a few weeks ago talking about why he feels some new TV drama has become more successful recently after decades of being in the doldrums. He put it down to the freedom he was given to write as he felt rather than being tied down to what produce’s expected an audience might want and in fact, being limited by so called ‘audience expectations’
    I don’t get the impression that BURN is about self promotion. I mean, I don’t get the feeling that that many here think of it that way either. It seems more about community to me..

  • Imants.

    didn’t read last comment prior to my previous response.
    I suppose I’m thinking more about content. So, squeezing news pieces in between other content. Moulding the content to fit a piece of limited time..?

  • Imants;

    I do think that the mass media caters to the lowest common denominator.

    I was talking to a newspaper photographer who dreamed of holding an exhibition called “Won’t See the Light of Day”. The exhibition would consist of images that his editor said “Wonderful photos, but they’ll never see the light of day” Meaning that the editor thought they were too “sophisticated” for him to run…

  • The writer of ‘Wire’ and ‘Six feet under’ can rabbit on about not being limited by so called ‘audience expectations’ in the end he has to write to them………… no audience no show.

    Bios, slide shows, singles, links to personal portfolios etc are self promotion, all of which are prevalent on this site. Most here have or want a career that is photo media related, burn is a great vehicle to be noticed and have a wider audience.

  • Imants;

    But you also have a generation coming through that are more visually sophisticated and tech savvy but often have left general knowledge.

    When I worked in the supermarket I was often amazed how limited many of the younger generation’s (“generation x”) general knowledge was, and situations/events needed a great deal of explanation.

    But; having spent the last 12 months shooting kids I’ve seen (mostly “generation y”) how keen they are to distance themselves from the generation x kids and their perceived “faults” I’m surprised how many times I’ve been told “But they’re generation x, we’re not like them!”

    So; again it seems that the generations are forging new identities!

  • The editor is on borrowed time along with his paper………as for the newspaper photographer he should explore other avenues and there are plenty around.

  • Imants
    could you pls check your emails? there is somth with your last submission … Thx.

    Patricia …
    A big hug to you!

    pls submit TODAY … just look around and let us see too … it is about community. And we are all real after all.

    almost there …

  • Imants… the point being, the assumption that an audience is only willing to stay with this or that, can be very much off the mark.

    You may think that people are here for self promotion, I get the feeling people are here because this is a community they’d like to participate with.

  • You know, for one person to do one of those multimedia pieces as photojournalism, he or she needs to be an expert in at least three fields: photographer, video producer, and writer/journalist. It’s not a new field. Television news has been doing it for years. Likewise, to do one of those multimedia pieces as art requires expertise in at least three fields: photographer, video producer, and writer. And that is not a new field either. It’s been around for a while is is generally referred to as cinema.

    And that “at least three fields” rule is nothing new. Since the advent of photography in print, it’s been very rare for a photographer to write the story and do the layout to go with their own photos. Again, that is a job that requires expertise in at least three fields.

    Outside of its relationship with editorial content, still photography has always been about the print. If still photography is going to evolve in the digital age, something will have to replace the print. And as people prefer big prints over small, I suspect looking at photos on the Iphone or tablet isn’t going to cut it for most. Though it’s possible the tablet could serve as a sort of gateway drug to sell larger instances.

  • Ross all our information is limited when we are young and the older generation perceives them as less knowledgeable……. but they were street smart that is knowledge within itself. The x generation has grown up and isn’t as ignorant as the baby boomers wanted them to be…………

  • The way we perceive the world is the world in which we’re able to see!

  • Imants; Yes; but what surprised me the most is how much the generation y kids seem to want to distance themselves from the gen x! :-)

  • I suspect Steve Jobs may be out front on this as well, but not with the tablet or Iphone. The Apple TV probably comes closer to “it” for still photographers. Having an ubiquitous device that gets the photo from the computer to the big screen in the living room may provide some opportunity.

  • Waaaaay more street smart than my generation ever dreamed of being. We were so sophisticated that going to grans house on Friday nights to watch “Starsky and Hutch” on colour tv was practically exciting enough to wet yourself over! :-)

  • and generation x distanced themselves from the baby boomers?

  • Ross..

    I heard an interesting observation about this recently, in which it was thought that because generation “y” is so often told that gen “y” is like this and not that, is a big part of the reason why they feel apart and different from gen x. I guess what I’m thinking is that we’re so often crafted by what we are told about how we should be. Just a thought?

  • Ross

    A friends’ grandaughter told her that her generation is the “why bother” generation. Global warming, economic meltdown fewer job opportunities, real estate prices that make home ownership an impossible dream. It’s a tough time to be a young person. I have four kids in their twenties and I worry for them.

    Is that the kind of thing you hear from the young people you are working with?

  • I think its such a complex subject and its easy to confuse delivery with content..

  • Some things never change I suppose…. :-)

  • It’s hard to explain what I mean; it’d be easier over a few beers! My generation definately distanced itself from the previous generation, but by rebelling if possible. Like every generation that went before.

    However the kids I talk to seem to think they want to be more resposible etc from the gen x, not rebelling… Well, that’s what I seem to sense anyway.

  • It’s a good essay, Charlie, on the Maldives, which have been in the News lately, for the president having a cabinet meeting underwater. You packed up a lot of infos in just over 5 minutes. I am not sure the format does the best service to your photography. It is easy for us to pay attention, but a less attentive (yet curious of the subject) general public might just see them as mere illustrations of what you say about the situation there. But that’s the usual conundrum about MM format done by photographers. Is it promoting one’s work or is one’s work supposedly retreating behind the subject treated?

    I agree with Jim, the voice is a bit subdued, and underwhelming. It does lend an air of helplessness about what is in store for these Islands, and I do not think that is what was meant.

  • So thats what twitter’s all about…… sort of like texting.. I’m so slow!

  • I guess that’s you DAVID?.. Merry xmas either way..

  • David Alan Harvey:

    re: NY visit

    I saw from an earlier post that you are toughing out the holidays ;) in Colorado with your Mom and i wish you the very best time EVER..now this post will probably get major lost in the major shuffle in the days to come and so i will probably have to post it periodically till i get your attention. I am going to be in NJ from Dec. 27th till Jan 8th and would love to visit the loft even if only for a little while. I mentioned this some time ago you may recall. Will you be around and should i write an e-mail? Call? Send carrier pigeon?

    Will keep popping in here to see if you give me the nod to stop by. In the meantime, happy, happy holidays and wear your mittens, you need to keep that shutter finger warm and working on that M9!


  • The Maldives essay is slick, but for me is not hitting the mark. If I really wanted to get a good perspective on the situation in the Maldives I would prefer to spend 30 min to an hour watching a good documentary. If I want to soak up a visual perspective and get an intuitive feeling of the Maldives I would like this essay minus the commentary.

    I use 100% green energy in my home, replaced all my incandescent bulbs, don’t have a car, take public transit, and am concerned about the health of our planet and the human impact on it but I recently discovered that all the planets in the solar system are warming up, and that the Sun is approaching an historic peak period of flare activity. Given the recent scandal of suppression of data data that did not fit climate change models it leaves me wondering what is really going on. Hugo Chavez stated in Copenhagen ““If the climate was a bank [the west] would have already saved it.” and “The destructive model of Capitalism is eradicating life” It seems odd that a previous investment banker is schooling us on climate change. Making up for past sins?

  • Civi Claus

    darlingest friend..

    thinking of you often..working my fingers to the bone…know you understand..also major changes in my life happening..all for the good but changes are always painful, no?

    How are the azaelas? Loved your self-description to DQ..yep, that’s my Civi, i said to myself..burping and farting and making bad wine and good olive oil..and burning, always burning..

    still love the crap outta ya..ne’er forget it!


  • 8.30 am

    happy birthday
    bappy hirthday
    down the hatch with a creamy caucasian chinked for BURN and HAIK alike..

    health for the year ahead.

    well done on such a thorough piece and great to see such a timely and pertinent appearance on burn, with the recent global environmental summit – and the maldives excellent show of their truth there

    In Copenhagen the best we can expect is a political declaration. We’re very disappointed.
    We didn’t come here all this way to not agree anything. ”

    full news here

    and one more sup to the CIVILIAN-MASS OVERDRIVE.. the only one consistently here with no finger in the photo pie..

  • HAPPY BIRTHDAY BURN AND HAIK………. all the best and best for the forthcoming year.

    Completely covered in snow here.

    Seasons greetings all.


  • a civilian-mass audience

    civilian at work…coffee break…!!!

    Ella Fitzgerald – Louis Armstrong “Dream a Little Dream of BURN , BURN, BURN

    cause of you ourPatricia …we can dream BIG…and oime…
    KATIE FONSECA…I squeeze you and I hug you and I kiss you and I tell to the whole word…
    DAVIDB…fifth gear and going …like TORCAPA…vzooommm….vzoomm:)))

    BURN ,BURN,BURN…oups …back to work

    HAPPY BIRTHDAY BURN and HAIK…and BURNIANS and keep the flames BURNing…
    I LOVE you…it’s our BIRTHDAY and we LOVE it…it’s our BIRTHDAY…oups

  • Happy b-day BURN!
    Waiting for the surprise will be announced!


  • a civilian-mass audience

    Spread the word… we have a pARTYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

    It’s aour birthday and we LOVE it…it’s our bi

  • ***** Happy Birthday BURN, HAIK AND my MOM ******

    a beautiful day to all!

  • cacasian number 2 jus fo you.

    3 foot drifts at tor capas nursery up our mountain.. love it.. the balcony is an igloo..
    england STOPS for the flurry of white stuff, norways keeps going strong..

    and on.

    HAPPY BIRTHDAY to audreys mum – burn model..
    and jane fonda
    and keifer sutherland
    and samuel l jackson

  • OK, I’m not sleeping until suprise annouced.
    Been awake for a while..

    Welocome back CIVI

  • Happy Birthday BURN!
    All the best to you and have another great year of photos, essays, discussions, dialogues.
    Thanks to David Alan Harvey and Anton Kusters for creating it, Haik and Lassal for .. you know what ..
    the burnians for keeping it burning and making it a place to return and a civilian-mass audience for the soul and the warmth no other community could have.

    Keep up burning!
    What not to love…!

  • Happy birthday BURN!

    Keep on inspiring me in 2010.

    Someday this christmas I’m going to go through every essay posted here and make a top10-list, gonna be fun.

  • post to your blog bjarte.. look forward to that


    Too excited to sleep. It’s still dark here in Detroit but BURN provides all the light we need. Special love and birthday greetings to David, Anton, Haik and Audrey’s mum, Brigitte. And special thanks to Lassal and Haik for their inspired bringing together of ALL Burnians for the celebration. What not to love!

    Looking forward to our TERRIBLE TWOS…


  • a civilian-mass audience



    Hartelijk gefeliciteerd BURN

    Gratulerer med dagen BURN

    GeluGratulerer med dagen kkige verjaardag BURN

    誕生日おめでとう BURN

    Tillykke med fødselsdagen BURN

    Daudz laimes dzimšanas dienā BURN

    Gëzuar Ditëlindjen BURN

    Su gimimo diena BURN

    Xewqat sbieħ f’Għeluq Sninek BURN

    Wszystkiego najlepszego z okazji urodzin BURN

    تولدت مبارکBURN

    Aniversário Feliz BURN

    С днем рождения BURN

    VšecLa mulţi anihno nejlepší k narozeninám BURN

    Срећан рођендан BURN

    Všetko najlepšie k narodeninám BURN

    Vse najboljše BURN

    Cumpleaños Feliz BURN

    Siku ya kuzaliwa yenye furaha BURN

    Grattis på födelsedagen BURN

    สุขสันต์วันเกิด BURN

    Doğum Günün Kutlu Olsun BURN

    З Днем Народження BURN

    Chúc mừng Sinh nhật BURN

    גליקליכן געבורטסטאָגBURN

    Sretan rođendan BURN

    عيد ميلاد سعيدBURN

    Glücklicher Geburtstag BURN

    З Днём Нараджэння BURN

    生日快乐 BURN

    Palju õnne sünnipäevaks BURN

    Hyvää syntymäpäivää BURN

    Bon anniversaire BURN

    יום הולדת שמחBURN

    Χρόνια πολλά BURN

    जन्मदिन मुबारक हो BURN

    Boldog születésnapot BURN

    Til hamingju með afmælið BURN

    Selamat Ulang Tahun BURN

    Go maire tú do lá breithe BURN

    Честит рожден ден BURN

    LOVE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~BURN


    your words are never lost…i do get behind, but eventually i do read everything…unfortunately, our timing is off on your visit to New York…i leave for Rio de Janeiro on Dec. 30, but leaving from the Carolina house….yes, New Years Eve on Copacabana Beach…yes, warm and fun and the first day of Carnival and summer…but, i will be working..i will have to catch up fast on the activities and almost literally go from plane to heavy shooting..fortunately, i have a good advance team in place who have at least gotten some permissions and suggested locations for me…

    now, my loft, actually now the Burn gallery and office will be empty, so you could stay there if you want…i can make arrangements for you to get the keys….Lance Rosenfield may be coming in to stay at some point during that time…i just cannot remember his dates..in any case, the loft has two separate sleeping spots, so that could work if your times coincide …Lance is a good boy…

    so so sorry we will not meet and i will not be able to host you properly…i am hoping to hear from you by private email concerning your latest work…..

    my best holiday wishes to you Kathy and i do hope we can meet at some point in 2010….

    cheers, david

  • David, I don’t know who suggested that you needed to do Twitter, but they clearly aren’t your friend. ;)

    Tweets are trivial and boring. Go burn some pixels.

  • Hey Everyone – Happy Birthday!!!

    ———Burn is One————

    Burn, your a beautiful baby,
    may all your dreams come true

    the stars are in alignment, it’s an auspicious time…
    today is the longest day of the year down here, the summer solstice…
    tomorrow is the winter solstice up north…

    Shiva moon is in the night sky

    time to celebrate :)))

    THANKS TO YOU ALL for making burn such a special place

    looking forward…
    tic tic tic tic…


  • “Burn on…big river, Burn on” –Randy Newman

    Happy Burnaversary David

    Thank you all….


  • Civi here are a few more:

    Gelukkige verjaardag Burn.

    Bon anniversaire Burn.

    Suos sdey chhnam thmey Burn.

  • С днем рождения Burn!

    and more, from dreamlands

    生日快樂 Burn!

    Chúc mừng Sinh nhật Burn

    Siku ya kuzaliwa yenye furaha Burn!

    जन्मदिन मुबारक हो Burn!

    running running Road Trip

    happy birthday Burn, david, anton, haik&lassal (i hope i get to see it before we leave for our trip, otherwise i’ll be incommunicado for a couple of weeks), all the behind the scenes playas, all the photographers and writers and commentators and lovers and haters and eyes and noses and readers and, WHATeva….

    all the best

    running, eyes wide open…


  • One time around the sun………
    and many more to come…..
    Happy Solstice……
    Happy Birthday Haik!!!

  • Happy Birthday Haik…
    Happy Birthday Burnians…

    …to the things to come…

  • Happy Birthday Haik!
    You do a great job for BURN and for all of us.
    Thank you!


  • I´m like Patricia, could barely sleep, woke up often and early thinking, BURN´S BIRTHDAY, BURN´S BIRTHDAY!!! finally rose from bed, all gray and gloomy but thankfully raining outside (we need it)..ran to the compu´ like a kid racing downstairs to the Christmas tree, just to see…just to see all the Burnians here whooping it up on this festive day of celebration, so hear hear, here i am…joining in among you to wish BURN, Edgar Allan Poe…no wait, that´s Alan with one L..no? um, oh yeah, right, DAVID ALAN HARVEY (hi DAH´s Mom, i got it right!) and Anton and ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL Burnians from Belarus to Belle Glade, from Wichita to Whichwaydoigo, from Old Amsterdam to New Amsterdam (NYC), from Killamazoo to Tyler too, from Malibu to Instambul, too Burnians everywhere, far and wide,


    And to Haik, Audrey´s Mom and MY DAD! Happy birthday Dad, i couldn´t have done it without you (in more ways than one!)

    All my love to all


  • Sending joyful birthday wishes and a sincere sense of celebration at how burn has grown over its first year.

    So let’s toast o all who work, play and share on behalf of this endeavor!


    And for David..I couldn’t decide which traditional toast was best, so here are both. You can raise your glass more than once, eh?

    Four blessings upon you…
    Older whiskey
    Younger women
    Faster horses (ISOs on digital cameras)
    More money


    May your neighbors respect you,
    Trouble neglect you,
    The angels protect you,
    And heaven accept you

  • Happy Freakin Birthday Haik!!

  • With all your multilingual greetings, I can’t believe you guys left out Korean:
    버언아, 축하합니다!

  • Oh that’s just embarrassing! Sorry Kathleen F. for sort of stealing your birthday greeting. Did not see it, I swear!

    Oh well… great minds, right? ;^}

  • BTW… has anything, *ahem* yet launched?

  • Happy Birthday Burnians! Haik, you get a Happy Birthday x2 :-)

    DAH, Anton, and Haik: thank you for all that your do – it IS appreciated.

    Everyone have a Super Soulful Solstice, too! Longer days are just around the corner for the N. Hemisphere.

  • David AH (as in David ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!)

    I am super duper sorry to miss you as i had held my breath for months thinking about my loft pilgrimage but i am also thrilled (and jealous) that you will be shooting in Rio, (yes, one hand on that strap at all times..crime is nothing if not worse in Latin America–a crack addict doesn´t know an M9 from a Diana)because that sounds like a street shooter´s dream come true. I know you will be amazing there and i, for one, cannot wait to see the photos you bring back.

    I am moved (incredibly) at your offer to let me stay at the loft. I am staying with family in NJ but will also be in the City often and it is terribly expensive to travel from that far in the hinterlands to the mecca that is Manhattan so i might take you up on your offer part of the time. I will write to your addie at Burn magazine since that´s the only one that i have.

    And yes, I am extremely focused on my work these days..although i am in pause as i make Christmas cards (using 45 different photos, mind you! i will leave one for you in the Loft) i am hell-bent on moving forward and your assistance is more than appreciated. In fact i even now have my domain name (kathleenfonseca.com) and a full-fledged website will soon follow.

    I will not take any more of your time here, just want to say thank you for seeing my post and responding so kindly.

    Best on this wonderful Burn Birthday..cheers to you (AND YOUR MOM!)..you´re da man!


  • Michael

    hahahaha, no offense taken! Why have freakin´once when you can have it twice i always say..*wink*


  • RE: A Troubled Paradise

    I wish Charlie had let us comment underneath his essay. I thought the piece was ambitious and wide ranging. As someone who pursues South Asia-related stories, I found myself drawn to a number of the photos and wanted to see more.

    I do think this essay feel like an intro to a series of stories about the various topics. Now I am ready for Charlie’s narrated photo essay Maldivian politics, youth and drug culture, the environment, etc. So the essay here seems like the overture to a symphony.

    So I am ready for more.

  • a civilian-mass audience

    I am still working…
    MY SINCERE APOLOGIES to all the countries …which I forgot to mention…

    BUT I am just a civilian …thank you J.VINK and SIDNEY…you… all in my heart…!!!

    THAT’S WHY we HAVE each other …

  • a civilian-mass audience

    and psssssssssttt…HAIK , happy freaking birthday …hihihihi…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    PRESTON…Happy birthday !!! I love you !!!

    let’s get the party moving …

  • a civilian-mass audience


    the roof is on fire … you DABURNIAN !!!

    MYGRACIE…Wake up…we miss you.

    ANTON…THANK YOU !!! Is the moustache gone???

  • a civilian-mass audience


  • Happy birthday burn!!!
    A great big thank you to David, Anton for your courage and enthusiasm to run this place!
    This is so so cool and such a great forum!
    To all Burnians out there I say a big thank you for sharing ideas, thoughts, fun and discussions!
    It has been great fun and a great big pleasure to read burn!

    Happy birthday to Haik!!!
    Thank you Haik and Lassal for this tireless effort to create burnians.com I have to check it out quick!!!

    Just arrived in Frankfurt at Lassal’s place. Holy smokes! She is a creat character! And Tony is a true English gentlemen. This place is incredible – I hardly have words. Right beside the Inter Conti and only a few meters away from the Main river, Lassal has this great flat with wonderful old furniture – speechless!
    While I type these words I sit on a beautiful old table – awesome!
    Thomas and Dominik are here as well and we are about to hit the Frankfurt Christmas fare to celebrate the burn birthday! Let’s see what the Glühwein (hot spicy red wine) tastes like… hihi!
    After a 5 hour drive in this snow I am looking forward to finally get to know Lassal, Thomas and Dominik.
    I love you Burnians!

  • refining :


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