finally….springtime…i do not know about you, but for me spring just does not come quite quick enough….spring brings hope and promise and well, just warmer weather is just fine with me….and spring is just the time to clean house….throw out all the junk one accumulates over the winter…both physical and psychological ….time for us to begin anew….this spring brings challenges for all of us….with the lovely green of spring , this year brings us to face a world where we might all just have to do with less….

wherever i go now photographers are flat out scared…fearful of the future….businesses are closing down everywhere…magazine circulations have dropped leaving little money for assignments, galleries are not selling as before,  advertising agencies no longer have big budgets for photography, and newspapers are cutting their photo staffs drastically, if not going out of business entirely….i do not know one single professional photographer who is not affected by our global financial crises….

at the very same time i see amazing work being done…one way or another, the best will thrive in the long run….photographers and agencies who can move with stealth will move forward…those with too much overhead will have to do serious “spring cleaning” in order to survive….this is our new reality…

as i start now to look through the 1,029 entries that came in for the Emerging Photographer Fund grant, i am so so impressed with the  high standard of work being done by so many….a truly staggering tour de force of worthy work was submitted to me here on BURN… choose only one seems right off the top  somehow unfair, since i would so love to help so many more…..i am not the chooser, and i am pleased to not be the chooser of the recipient for this grant because i would be very hard pressed to make a decision among so many worthy photographers…i will do all i can to at least give those who do not receive this funding at least as much opportunity as i can give them with some solid exposure here on our forum in the coming months…

do i see a solid future for these emerging photographers as we go through these difficult times?? of course i do…hard times befall almost every generation…and harder times than these to be sure….now is just the time to share…band together…for mutual benefit and creative growth….and we must all throw away what we do not need which is historically what led the citizens of Valencia, Spain (above) to create the spring Fallas…

so many photographers and so few resources to finance them as professionals will lead many to search for other sources of income….however, the true visionaries will do just fine….and it has always been so…..

how do you see it??  bad times, or just time to clean house???

647 thoughts on “spring cleaning”

  1. Pingback: spring cleaning | burn magazine | The Click

  2. i think it’s what we make of it.. fee are disappearing from mags, as you say david, but there is stioll lots of opportunity for the right specialization and the right photographer..
    there has always been a ruckus about competition in photography and it will always be like that.. diversifying business interests and living cheaply has always been the name of the game and those prepared to continue with that will win through.. disappointing as it is that even time magazine is perusing flickrs copyriught fee collections for free-bees there are still plenty of ways to get ahead.

    i thought the digital / internet storm of change would have settled by now.. although perhaps it’s going to be a few decades of change in this young industry rather than a few years..

    would love to see the EPF entries.. great that some of them will feature here..

  3. I’m rather optimistic by nature (pheraps because I don’t have to make a living out of my photography ;): in general for media this is a time for exploring new way of doing/sharing things imo; content is king, but there are continuous leaps in how content can be put together and distributed. Burn is for sure a hell of an interesting experiment from this point of view. The tough part is that in general it’s still difficult to figure out who will pay for what…

    Yesterday I was talking with two editors of local (small town in Northern Italy) newspapers: they just implemented an online version of their journals, but this was considered a NOT strategical development (since most of the revenues are still coming from the paper). They answered my doubts saying: “We know that in USA newspapers are closing but all that is so far away…”. The funny (sic) thing is that some ten years ago somebody was saying the same about the local core business (textile), China seemed so far away, and now my district’s economy has almost collapsed.

    PS: here are my spingtime (grin) pictures from Moscow last week:

  4. ….” the economy will weed out…etc”…
    What a revelation!!!???!
    Good morning y’all.. From ugly San jose once again..
    I see no less photo opps.. out there..
    In fact the opposite..!
    I already quit the freaky towtruck for “pro” photography..
    through recession times.. what.. Where is the problem?..
    “spring” is on the way .. and of course the “BAD WEEDS”
    should stay out of work..!
    We only smoke and need the good weed…!
    Let the “bad weeds”, “bad newspaprz” and Expired Ideas fall
    like bad teeth..
    That is in fact a good thing..
    There is no such a thing as recession ..
    It’s just the Death of the Decadent and the Lazy
    that smells so horribly bad…
    And enough with the heartless the Emotional and the
    ( people, leave your fears at home and home and go to work..

  5. Great work up here as usual….I am really enjoying a re-emergence of the critical eye. The craft is going to be what we make it, which suits me fine……

  6. Tao Te Ching


    The Way has no true shape,
    And therefore none can control it.
    If a ruler could control the Way
    All things would follow
    In harmony with his desire,
    And sweet rain would fall,
    Effortlessly slaking every thirst.

    The Way is shaped by use,
    But then the shape is lost.
    Do not hold fast to shapes
    But let sensation flow into the world
    As a river courses down to the sea.
    -Lao Tze

    EVERYTHING is transformation David….bring it on! :))


  7. anna maria barry-jester

    people will always love stories, and good story telling will always be in high demand…
    the way we best hear, see, learn, and feel may change and evolve with civilization and technology,
    but it will never go away. bad times? maybe a little scary, certainly harder to make it full time…but rainy days are mixed with sun…

  8. “The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.

    Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.

    What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?

    One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

    The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

    The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.

    All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.

    All things are full of labour; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.

    The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

    Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.”

    In short, dont sweat it; these people arent, now that they’re not washed out anymore (I hope)

  9. The blossom, the nests, Sex, renewal, that colour new oak leaves are around now what’s not to like. I like the winter as well though.

    It’s defiantly a tuff time to pay the rent taking pictures but then it’s a tuff time to be a structural engineer. Things change and technology forces changes on people. You don’t see many people getting paid to play the piano at the front of the cinema nowadays but plenty of people make a living playing the piano. I’m sure every thing will work out fine in the end…. touch wood.

  10. A civilian-mass audience


    Hindu Prince Gautama Siddharta (563-483 BC), the founder of Buddhism:

    “All that we are is the result of what we have thought. The mind is everything. What we think we become.”

    “The mind is everything. What you think you become.”


    this is PANOS from VENICE BEACH..
    I changed my name to protagoras for you..
    Welcome back..
    ( and don’t forget to order my Venice book..:)))

  12. Protagoras(panos)

    Civilian… Also..
    Have you noticed that many think I am you??
    What an honor:))))

  13. hello everyone
    thank you for your inspiring thoughts, quotes and images.
    i found out about this little thing earlier this year.
    now addicted.
    about our situation:
    i am stoked to be alive in these times.
    so much change
    and such beautiful things…
    but i am a realist too.
    i am just finishing a 2 yr photo school
    and am about to be pushed back into the working class
    excited to bust my ass
    because even if i cannot pay for things with my camera
    i do other things; oh well
    we will still make pictures!!
    i feel lucky to have found a little niche within photography
    fly fishing
    there is competition
    but the cream rises
    and hard work is recognized

    many thanks

  14. A civilian-mass audience


    You are me and I am you…I am DAVID, I am BOBBY BLACK, I am KATIE, I am GRACIE, I am DAVIDB, I am JIM,
    I am DARIA ( I wish ,I wish I am Daria) I am ALL of you …and you are ME.

    Ok, I might loose signal pretty soon…

    I got your second burb book too. Any discounts for CIVILIANS? just asking

  15. I fall in line with the majority here. I feel excitement instead of despair for the future. Maybe we’ll see a rebirth of photographic experimentation soon. I know I wouldn’t mind picking up a mainstream magazine and not seeing one of those generic lit portraits that dominate the printed media at the moment. And with the internet opening up and increasingly becoming a paying avenue for photography, things seem bright. Well, the glimmer may be dim now, but it’s brightening. Even more, with such a huge increase in visuals, I think we’re working on a golden age of visual sophistication in audiences (that statement’s got a nasty paternalistic tone to it; why should audiences ever be considered unsophisticated?) but with so many websites and magazines and other media devoting time and space not only to visuals but to their understanding and criticism as Andy said above (a brave new world where Fox News finds time to discuss sophisticated visual characteristics of a magazine’s cover treatment of Palin (nevermind that they came down on the side that the shot needed more photoshop fakery…)) I think we’ve got more than a little hope for the future.

    Unfortunately, I am gloomy about the nature of mainstream journalism as a whole in the future. Less space and time devoted to investigating and reporting important stories in prominent places is a bad thing. With niche publications (and photography as David mentioned in the post above) comes a division of the audience among many disparate sources. The BIG stories will reach everyone, but smaller still important stories will find it harder to raise awareness. Journalism will find a way to survive, and there’s no question of that. But getting the story out to people who don’t realize they need to know about it, rather than to an audience that seeks out the story, is a major concern.

  16. Why is it that some of the best art and music seem to come out of the “worst” times?

  17. DAH and burn readers worldwide,

    Down here in Australia it can be hard to find a)assignments b)funding (like everywhere) but I have to say that the hardest thing to find here is communication/critique/apraisal of work with others who have a personal and dedicated approach to their photography, as well as editors, art directors, curators etc…

    We only have 20 million people in this country, and as you can probably imagine finding people you trust to talk about one’s work can be difficult. Thankfully the internet makes US based forums like Burn available to us all around the world. It really is an engaging and supportive of network of people here (director, helpers and readers alike). I really like the attitudes I read here of people continuing to work, regardless of assignments/finances being readily available.

    Of course our work will continue and flourish. Just keep at it and keep up the reading, the discussion, the interaction, the support and most of all, keep the cameras in hand.


  18. Speaking of spring clean outs… One more thing.

    To help out anyone who uses 6×6 format, I have 14 packs of 100% transparent KALME neg sleeves (I use 35mm and 6×7) that I will happily post if someone wants them.

    Each pack has 25 sleeves. New.

    Free, only pay postage. International okay (from Australia).



  19. Change is the only constant. How can you rise up if you don’t embrace it? Through change, we see good and bad times. If you put positive thoughts and energy out into the universe, it will find its way back to you. Energy and the power of thought have much more influence than some realize…it is the key to unlocking most people’s dreams. Dream big or go home. I see no other way. You can decide to succeed or to fail…how you utilize your talents and bag of tricks is up to you…but dwelling on the negative is putting up your own roadblock…rise above it, and it will happen. Edgar Allan Poe was wise to observe that “They who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night.” So keep striving towards your dreams…and you will hold to the key to its matching door. Luck is when opportunity meets preparation…are you prepared?

  20. Times of crisis? Sounds like collective whining to me. Outside of the West, the “crisis” is a daily status quo, but with a lower dose of opportunity and a higher level of danger. It’s been like that for decades. Yet photographers continue to help develop the journalistic grind and artistic need of their societies.

    Ask yourself how many African photographers you know of. Then eliminate the those of North African and South African origin. You started with few and are left with almost none. Yet there are growing glimmers: emerging PR/marketing photographers in Angola, a growing artistic community in Namibia, emerging independent journals in Tanzania, expanding modeling firms in South Africa.

    Latin America is crippled by decades of devalued currencies, high interest rates, organized crime that make owning a camera difficult and using it dangerous. Nonetheless most countries in the region have a deeply rooted attachment to photography and visual imagery at all levels. The Bienals of Mexico City and Sao Paulo, plus FotoArte and FotoSeptiembre are all examples of how photography is promoted at a NATIONAL level.

    If photography is a growing field in these places, then surely in established countries it is in no real risk. If anything, I hope the “spring cleaning” will level the playing field and give those barbarians at the gates, a more legitimate place in Rome.

  21. Alberto Pitozzi

    Photography is try to find your place at the right moment and… clic… not so easy but great!
    Life? exactly the same exercice.
    Bad times? Mayby yes mayby not so.
    Just trying to enjoy life.
    Cheers Alberto

  22. JAN. There are countless amazing African photographers working.
    mohamed camara
    andrew dosunmu
    doa aly
    luis basto
    omar d
    fatou kande senghor
    kay hassan
    ali chraibi
    zwelethu mthethwa
    mamadou gomis
    sada tangara
    ……… are just a few whose work you can check out.
    Are they getting the coverage they deserve is another question entirely.
    same goes for south america, cuba, korea and pretty much anywhere there are people.

  23. Kathleen Fonseca


    “Latin America is crippled by decades of devalued currencies, high interest rates, organized crime that make owning a camera difficult and using it dangerous.”

    YOU SAID IT!!! I disagree with one part of this statement, even disorganized crime makes using a camera dangerous. On one hapless Saturday i was “asaltado” twice in 20 minutes. They didn’t get my camera though. Unmarked camera bags, rangefinders (in spite of Jim saying they were killed off in the 50’s), walking briskly and knowingly, a good sense of humor, a sharp eye, not showing fear, very fast film and a steady hand all help too. And probably decent Karma doesn’t hurt.

    Civilian mass Audience:

    But are you the walrus?


    i think every field has it’s share of ups and downs for all sort of reasons and as always, the highly talented, creative, hard working, dedicated, luckiest and most passionate about what they do will eek out a living until some, not all, will make it big. The rest will find something else that makes them happy and successful. The question is, can you see yourself doing anything else? Truly?

    Nice photo, love the upstretched arms..i can really feel the emotion.


  24. A civilian-mass audience


    Thank you CARRIE for the energy, “are you prepared”?…

    Thank you SEAN… bring sleeves and cuffs, I am bringing ouzo!

    Thank you PANOS and HERVE…Viva DARIA!!

    “Beauty is a form of genius — is higher, indeed, than genius, as it needs no explanation. It is of the great facts in the world like sunlight, or springtime, or the reflection in dark water of that silver shell we call the moon.”

    Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) Irish poet and dramatist.

    KATHLEEN FONSECA wrote On “Times and Timing”:

    ” There is nobody like you.”

    Babie Katie…o))
    Cause each one of us, we are the ENERGY ,we are the creators of the Universe, and we are Unique !!!
    We COUNT on you.

    P.S Where are you MGracie? Kibbutz party, New York Is BURNing…I am sending ouzo and keftedes:))))
    PLATO no need to reply but with for your BIG heart there is no bra size to fit you. I already checked.

  25. There’s not much we can do about this economic mess, but go out and shoot. Worrying about it does no good whatsoever.

    Personally, I’m looking for internships at the moment (newspapers, before they all shrivel up and die). Short of that, I’m outfitting a van and saving a bunch of cash, ready to take to the road. Finishing up a photojournalism program and excited about having time to shoot in the future without the rigors and schedule of school.

    Not feeling hindered in the slightest.

  26. A civilian-mass audience


    WARLUS…? Dunno?

    You know what is PLATO’S fate…Don’t ya?
    HIS key is awaiting moderation…
    You don’t want that to happen? Don’t ya? ? Right?
    Warlus no more for civilians!!!!

    P.S KAT-SMART-ASS…Funniest today, Kiss our mommy…

  27. Kathleen Fonseca

    CMA..cuddle my artichoke..

    dammitman you make me laugh!

    besos, abrazos and coothie-coos..


    not feeling hindered??? YOU GO! GOOD LUCK!!!!!

    (I read your post real fast and thought you said “without the rigors and schedules of alcohol” eyes are tri-x’d..)


    (goodnight Gracie!)


  28. Hi there;

    There is also the theory that in general magazine & book sales go up in a recession. The reason being that people hunker down at home, they buy more books and mags and hire dvd’s instead of going out. Here in NZ that is happenning. Also, sales of “tightening your belt” type articles are up too!!

    “Outside of the West, the “crisis” is a daily status quo”; how true!!! But even here, I semm to be broke most of the time too, and just say what recession? I had bugger all before and that hasn’t changed!!

    I think it’s a time to think positive. When you wake up in the morning, check your pulse, and if it’s still there, how can it be a bad day?

    Hopefully this will go through without be trashed as spam… again…

    Cheers everyone.

  29. @ John G – It is exactly my point, although I thing I rather muffled the message by noting new trends rather than some established names. There are “countless” and yet unknown. Precisely because there are “countless” there is ample proof that even in the toughest conditions, there is opportunity. And this crisis hardly counts as a real term of hardship. Thanks for the names, there are definitely some I will want to learn more about.

    @ Kat….wish I were so lucky. Last time I was held at gun point I thought “I just never seem to get used to this…” and instantly realized you never are supposed to get used to having a gun against your head…

  30. A civilian-mass audience

    OUPS!!! VIVA ASIA too!!!

    I am a dunno ,
    I am a walrus,
    I am a rainbow,
    I am a cloud,
    I am the CLASSIC BEEF around…

    SMILE to the universe and The universe will smile back
    VIVA ouzo

  31. Just had This guy staying with us for a few days.
    He came to do a portrait of bret. he seems to have got around the problem of looking for work by decking out a photo car and touring it all over europe, taking pictures, doing shows and getting drunk a lot.
    On the subject of self portraits, i guess we have all tried it. I fail everytime as I cannot seem to get near this:- Portrait of me .
    potatoshopped to hell and back, but fully {IMO] in service of THE IMAGE.

  32. A civilian-mass audience


    with your face the Universe definitely smiles on you.
    There is no failure in the universe… check around you…

    We are build to PERFECTION!!!!

    Not running!!!

  33. hahahaha.
    this is the way to spring clean…
    a blonde clean mop with a dose of bleached-may-become-dirty HUMOR!!

    but seriously, i thought I HAD the biggest heart… 46GG.
    but i guess, HE has the biggerest one.
    (civilian checked – his word is gospel to me)

  34. AKAKY: I notice that CMA isnt you.

    AKAKY IRL: He isnt you too, which is more or less par for the course, I think. You dont want to be you, either.

    AKAKY: Yeah, that’s true enough, I guess.

  35. A civilian-mass audience

    CMA: Yes, You guessed right. He can’t hold it anymore.

    CMA IRL: Akaky is me and I am Akaky.

    CMA: How does it feel?

    CMA IRL: It sucks. F&^*K

  36. Kathleen Fonseca


    Crap! The day they hold a gun to my head is the day i finally check out of Hotel Costa Rica. It has happened to 2 out of 4 members of my immediate family. The reason it took me so long to get serious about photography is because every camera i ever had was stolen. Finally i got extremely defensive and installed an iron closet door in my bedroom with a dead bolt. Only one other person knows where the key is hidden. I take only Bessa RF’s OR a Nikon FG OR a Yashicamat 124g to the street, dress inconspicuously, speak fluent Spanish, never ever wear any jewelry except for a good luck watch and i walk the walk. The M7 stays home..i don’t even know why i have’s just asking for trouble. Even the Yashicamat is problematical because it attracts too much attention. Jan, i think the fact that i’m a woman helps. i doubt i could have shot the streets of San Jose as often or for as long as i have if i was a man. i have gotten in under the radar by being a woman and i take full advantage of my gender.

    Two US photo-journalists sent by magazines recently to shoot the “Conquistador” 4 day bicycle race that attracts cyclists the world over had all their equipment (and photos) stolen on the third day of the race from an area restricted to just press and cyclists. A friend of mine who is a naturalist from Colorado lost $20,000 of equipment from the safe of a B&B while he was dining out with the owners. Another Costa Rican friend had all his equipment stolen out of the trunk of his car from his own driveway when he went home for lunch. This stuff happens constantly and breaks my heart. I am so very sorry that you were robbed so violently. We see these photo essays shot in the third world and often we have no concept of the personal risks and danger that is undertaken by the photographers. It’s always tense, dangerous and often terrifying shooting in these countries. But it is also thrilling and life affirming. Still, the day i see a gun pointed at me..i don’t know..i know it will happen eventually. It’s the law of numbers. But i can’t say what my reaction will be.. To be a working photographer think the least of the worries would be getting work. It’s far more urgent a concern to stay alive and make it back home with your camera.


  37. 2 from Beckett, and that’s it for the week….


    to and fro in shadow from inner to outer shadow

    from impenetrable self to impenetrable unself
    by way of neither

    as between two lit refuges whose doors once
    neared gently close, once away turned from
    gently part again

    beckoned back and forth and turned away

    heedless of the way, intent on the one gleam
    or the other

    unheard footfalls only sound

    till at last halt for good, absent for good
    from self and other

    then no sound

    then gently light unfading on that unheeded

    unspeakable home”

    and from the end of The Unnamable:

    It’s the last words, the true last. Or it’s the murmurs: the murmurs are coming, I know that well. No, not even that. You talk of murmurs, distant cries, as long as you can talk. You talk of them before and you talk of them after. More lies: it will be the silence (the one that doesn’t last) spent listening, spent waiting (for it to be broken, for the voice to break it). Perhaps there’s no other, I don’t know. It’s not worth having, that’s all I know. (It’s not I, that’s all I know.) It’s not mine. It’s the only one I ever had? That’s a lie: I must have had the other, the one that lasts – but it didn’t last. (I don’t understand.) That is to say it did: it still lasts. I’m still in it. I left myself behind in it. I’m waiting for me there. (No, there you don’t wait, you don’t listen.)

    I don’t know: perhaps it’s a dream, all a dream. (That would surprise me.) I’ll wake, in the silence, and never sleep again. (It will be I?) Or dream (dream again), dream of a silence, a dream silence, full of murmurs (I don’t know, that’s all words), never wake (all words, there’s nothing else).

    You must go on, that’s all I know.

    They’re going to stop, I know that well: I can feel it. They’re going to abandon me. It will be the silence, for a moment (a good few moments). Or it will be mine? The lasting one, that didn’t last, that still lasts? It will be I?

    You must go on.

    I can’t go on.

    You must go on.

    I’ll go on. You must say words, as long as there are any – until they find me, until they say me. (Strange pain, strange sin!) You must go on. Perhaps it’s done already. Perhaps they have said me already. Perhaps they have carried me to the threshold of my story, before the door that opens on my story. (That would surprise me, if it opens.)

    It will be I? It will be the silence, where I am? I don’t know, I’ll never know: in the silence you don’t know.

    You must go on.

    I can’t go on.

    I’ll go on.

  38. You are me and I am you…I am DAVID, I am BOBBY BLACK, I am KATIE, I am GRACIE, I am DAVIDB, I am JIM,
    I am DARIA ( I wish ,I wish I am Daria) I am ALL of you …and you are ME.


  39. Kat,

    Multiple thefts, a few rapes and half a dozen murders, so I left home for safer pastures for a while. But I found I miss the chaos and the urgent reality of it all. It is also not all Hell, there are plenty of moments of beauty and peace. Indeed, I feel no urgency or need in documenting all of this injustice, and instead challenge myself to find/create images that exist despite it.

    Case in point: I was in Mauritania earlier last year. I went North to South overland via Morocco to Noudhibou, where there is an enormous ship graveyard. 400-500 ships in a bay, abandoned due to insurance fraud. Fascinating I thought, so I went to see this for myself. This is also where Senegalese immigrants illegally embark toward the Canary islands. They are employed in sub-human conditions in the fishing trade. Kilometers and Kilometers of huts where they cut up fish, dry shark fins and save enough money and salvage enough oil drums until they build themselves a raft. Mauritania abolished slavery in 1981 and then again a couple of years ago. So slaves are still a very strong reality—or at the very least indentured servants. The intersection of slaves, illegal immigrants and poverty is of course extremely volatile and a great PJ assignment.

    Due to various mis-adventures I spent time in detention with the immigrants, slept in a mine-field, was threatened (and gun pointed) by the military police, accused of espionage and was let free by a generous guard. On the flip side I was given absolute protection and shelter by strangers who took me into their homes, fed me, clothed me, and made sure I had everything I could to complete my shoot of the boats. They introduced me to local dignitaries and artists, and we spent nights debating sex and Sufism while drinking tea and milk.

    Despite corruption on a grand scale, theft was never an issue and my camera stayed with me the whole time. I had an opportunity most PJ photographers would dream for: Inside time and perspective with the issue of immigration and slavery. I took few pictures, of this. Mostly because this was my private story and adventure and exposing this intimacy was not my pictorial purpose. I was going to Noadhibou to see the boats, period. Honestly, I wasn’t shocked by the human suffering, because I’ve been around it most of my life in one form or another. I shared bread and water, contacted families upon my release, and tell the story, but to document it… To expose the slave/servants was partially dangerous to my well being, but mostly to theirs; in some cases it was unfair to my generous hosts, who were risking antagonizing the villainous military by taking me in. And yet it wasn’t unfair at all to not document–honor, beauty, safety, and politics each found its niche and was respected in ways that Mungo Park or Livingston would understand, but few today can appreciate. All of us knew this and respected this in each other.

    The immigrants wanted help where I could concretely and immediately offer it–just like my needing food and water. They knew I would go free before them so they asked me to contact their families and convey messages, they did not want or need a political essay. The servant/slaves knew I could not do anything for them but knew that by being a foreigner I would personally treat them as men, and this meant a replenishing of base honor and humanity. My hosts gave protection and (without need to say so) expected respect to their customs. All of them were intrigued by my traveling so far to see dead boats.

    I realize my behavior is criticized by many. “How could you not document it, so as to expose it?” It was a personal experience. Also, and perhaps I am deluding myself, but highlight the symmetry of the wrecks, and find anthropomorphic elements in them is also telling the unseen story. For every print I sell, the story is told (Hell, I am telling the basics of the story here too). And when the pictures are seen elsewhere, the owner will likely say “This is from Nouadhibou. I met the photographer”… And my story and that of all I met will be retold, without needing to show it….The horizon we see is as much made by what is present as by what remains veiled.


  40. I love spring cleaning. I very much believe that in order for new energy to enter, there needs to be a pruning of that which no longer serves a purpose or is no longer appropriate to one’s growth. Sometimes the most powerful cleaning is of one’s psyche..

    That’s a phenomenal number of entries. It will be great to see many of these works featured here in the coming months.

    peace and goodness

  41. Spring cleaning? Great! Pity we’re heading into winter way down here!!! The first frosts have hit, autumn has started..

  42. A civilian-mass audience


    Greek RED CROSS is coming. We will be with you in few hours. Our hearts are with you. ITALY we are coming.

    PLEASE, PLEASE,SEND GOOD ENERGY to our Civilians and Philosophers in ITALY …
    SEE ya soon

  43. jan,

    i have read your account many many times and i had it sit with me throughout the day today. it didnt sit well in my stomach but curled up in my throat and i lugged it around all day.

    i wish we (in the US) could have more of bbc… realize there is more propaganda in what we see everyday… realize there is much too much misery beyond our four seas and inspite that people are surviving and faring rather well, not knowing any other choice, it does become easy.

    so “how could you not document it, so as to expose it?” people ask you? i am just voicing out my own thoughts too if someone did ask me the same…
    because this (or any photojournalistic venture) is not my story, it is not the photographer’s story. this is the responsibility on any PJs back that not all carry and respect. our subjects always will have that fear of being exposed, should they trust the journalist, the photographer to tell it how it is without any color or the addition of emotions or interpretation. even words should be kept at a minimum to avoid being misconstrued. there is always that risk. and if there is personal color to a story, then the journalist has the responsibility to keep his mouth shut. to uphold a promise, to keep the respect, not to break the trust.

    i would be lying if i said i would not want fame. but it takes a stronger person to uphold principle and continue to respect what my subjects give me: complete trust that i will tell the truth. but when? it would not be for me to decide.

    i wish i was more eloquent in supporting you in what you have done and what you continue to do. for me it is a paradox: dead boats, slavery, ghostly people in abandoned buildings, return to a previous joyous life, hope…

  44. panos skoulidas

    BBC & CNN sucks…
    sorry Gracie…
    L’Aquila………. hold on tight… you’ll be alright……
    IF i could pray… then i would pray for Italy tonight…
    Going to San Francisco tomorrow morning……. another earthquake “party” town…..

  45. panos,
    thanks for reading my whole whine.. hehe
    i dont really watch tv anymore.
    make sure you got your supplies in the back of your car.
    in case, god forbid, you get into a quake not of your own making…

  46. panos skoulidas

    ok…enough with my “harassment”…
    gotta go to bed…
    my poor overweight assistant Rene…:))
    well… he is sleeping in the bed next to mine in our small Motel6 room…
    Poor guy ( non drinker ) is tired of me drinking all night Saporo (samurai) beer… BURNing…
    and watching Discovery channel about the Holy Shroud of Jesus at the same time……… :(
    good night from ugly San Jose…
    off to Frisco ( the most beautiful city in the west world ) early tomorrow….
    A quick shoot and then back to Big Bear tomorrow night…
    Its only 500 hundred miles away… and my pretty cute red mustang horse is waiting …
    big hug……..

  47. A civilian-mass audience


    I checked your website…Europe:
    PALAMIDI FORT ( NAFPLIO ), GREECE!!!Is this your baby lady in the photo???!!!
    LOVE you soooo much.

    we are sending you good ENERGY, ενεργεια καλη απο ολο τον κοσμο.
    Kiss my Embarcadero…national…

    46 GG !!!!!!!!!!!!

    Running like Bobby,
    Red Cross is calling

  48. Kathleen Fonseca


    Just saw your previous post but will respond later in the day..have to go out right now..

    Civilian and Italy..

    also just heard about the quake (sorry, i had the audacity to sleep 13 hours!!!)…i don’t know where this happened but i DO know about earthquakes. We just had a devastating one several months ago that, well, let’s say it created a whole ‘nother slope on the hillsides to the north of me and buried a good number of people along with it. Earthquakes are horrific amusement park thrill rides for real. The power of the human brain, our wars, our supreme majesties, our fast cars, our nuclear fusion, our race to space, all the strutting around demonstrating our superiority above all things is reduced to a pitiful whimper when the earth decides to fart out a little indigestion it’s been struggling to hold in for way too long. Bless you Italy, bless you Red Cross and neighboring nations who will come to your aid, bless you victims who have lost your homes and life-supporting infrastructure..i know your fear and trauma. Bless you, Italy at this time.


  49. Civilian, Panos, Kathleen,

    thanks for your support… the quake happened in center-south Italy, in Abruzzo region: the toll rose above 100 deaths up to now and maybe it could double in the coming hours. 100.000 people were left without a roof. Some small villages in the mountains, inhabited only by elders, were completely destroyed by the quake and nobody can say now how many people were there: they are waiting for their sons and relatives to come and help identifying the places where to dig.

  50. A civilian-mass audience

    “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”
    Beatrice Hall, The Friends of Voltaire, 1906

    “Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by the individual who can labor in freedom.”
    Albert Einstein

    ITALY keep it up. We are next to you. PLEASE don’t loose your COURAGE…

    “Wealth lost is something lost, honor lost is something lost: Courage lost all is lost.”
    Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe

    GOOD ENERGY !!! ONLY good energy we need.And remember, BURN is the place to BE!!!
    Thank you Socrates for giving Plato such a courage…

  51. panos(protagoras)

    All gay trolls and Jokes aside…

    Italy.. ITALIA…
    prayers.. Love.. Prayers …
    With you!!!!
    Thank u for info…
    It’s sad
    Disturbing.. Families with no homes…
    Fucking volcanoes..
    There is no God..
    No justice..
    Nothing fair…
    All my sympathy..
    Love… Support to the wounded , hurt people of Italy..
    I live right on top of the wicked SAN ANDREAS FAULT IN LOS ANGELES..
    my beloved sister Maria had the chance to survive the big quake in 1994 ( I was in Athens at the time..
    Tears in my eyes.. Just remembering those days..)
    Una fatsa Una ratsa we used to say in Greece ..
    Italians are our brothers..
    Fuck all volcanoes…
    Fuck all faults..
    Which is my extended family..

  52. A civilian-mass audience

    Yes , you are so right Panos !!

    Let’s send one Buceros bicornis to our fellow civilians.

    Abele that’s for you,

    L’AQUILA, The Eagle lives in our hearts
    Huge Bug :)))

  53. A civilian-mass audience


    Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal
    with the intent of throwing it at someone else;
    you are the one who gets burned.
    — Buddha.

    LOVE U All
    Greeks,British, Italians, Chinese, Australians, Americans, North and South , Costa Ricians…………………………………………………

    WE ARE ALL CITIZENS of this masterpiece. Breathe and Enjoy!! Our time is limited :((

  54. Panos,
    Una fatsa Una ratsa
    Una faccia Una razza (in Italian)

    A great truth; the Mediterranean sea is really a small sea, we are all close together (and the world itself is not so much bigger than that, listen to the wise Civilian): 235 Italians died in the quake five hundreds kilometers south of my town, 200 (more?) brothers from Africa died close to the Lybian shore while trying to “illegally” immigrate in Europe last week.

    “If you persist in claiming the right to divide the world into Italians and foreigners, then I must say that I have no Fatherland. I would then want the right to divide the world into disinherited and oppressed on one side, and privileged and oppressors on the other. The former are my Fatherland, the latter my foreigners” Don Lorenzo Milani, 1965 (while advocating conscientious objection)

  55. panos skoulidas

    Una faccia Una razza (in Italian)…

    You are a wise, peace loving sensitive man…
    I had no idea about the 200 immigrants died last week…
    Really sad and heartbreaking…
    I remember numerous “boat wrecks” around the Aegean sea…
    full of Iraqi refugees trying to find a better life in Europe…
    usually having greece as the first open door…
    Same with italy hosting thousands of refugees from the fallen Balcans…

    …. and regarding Don Lorenzo Milani…
    i do feel the same here in the States regarding all the illegal foreigners
    that trying to cross the south borders in a daily basis..
    They are just human beings seeking for a better life…
    leaving back their families and their corrupted homelands just to survive their starving children..
    I see their pain everyday in the streets of Los Angeles….

    Good afternoon y’all from the shiny L.A…
    I overslept today….sorry..
    ( but checking in… i just realized i havent missed much…:)))))))))))
    big hug..

  56. panos skoulidas

    …and Abele………..
    I wish someday the Palestinians and the Israelis will also accept that truth of all truths..


  57. panos skoulidas

    sorry y’all for interrupting my late show… (distracting you with personal debates with particular individuals… it happens sometimes.. hopefully not that often…)

    ok… back to our program…
    here is the Vaselines lyrics…

    Jesus, don’t want me for a sunbeam
    Sunbeams are never made like meDon’t expect me to cry
    For all the reasons we have to die
    Don’t ever ask your love of me

    Don’t expect me to cry
    Don’t expect me to lie
    Don’t expect me to die for me

  58. ABELE…

    what is your town??? i love Abruzzo region, have photographed there quite a bit, and am so distressed by the tragedy now…my heart is out to you….

    ciao, david

  59. panos skoulidas

    i know what you all think…
    apologies…All apologies….
    i’m with you…… F**k All Apologies…

    ( lyrics below )

    What else should I be
    All apologies
    What else should I say
    Everyone is gay
    What else could I write
    I dont have the right
    What else should I be
    All apologies

    In the sun
    In the sun I feed as one
    In the sun
    In the sun
    Im married

    I wish I was like you
    Easily amused
    Find my nest of salt
    Everything is my fault
    Ill take all the blame
    Aqua seafoam shame
    Sunburn with freezerburn
    Choking on the ashes of her enemy
    All in all we all are

    biggest hug

  60. DAVID

    there is a misunderstanding: I live in Northern Italy (Biella, Piedmont region), quite far from Abruzzo (five-six hundreds kilometers as said). None of the persons I know has been involved in the quake (as far as I could check), but… Una faccia Una razza… Thank you/grazie!

  61. ABELE…

    i have not had the opportunity to explore the countryside of the Piemonte region of Italy, but it is always in my plan…i only know Torino…..i should be there in July….any chance for us to meet??

    ciao, david

  62. Eloquement fullofwords, this means facundious
    This enlistment of camps dividing the same world
    If only they knew that same things their words bind
    Fettered hopes, unleashed fears, unused minds
    If not same arguments I struggle to find
    Use, just discord, and un-peace unfurled
    Pictures I need, my Civilian, this boredom is tedious

    Answer me: where are you?
    Tonite, I’m unusually lonely. Are you?

  63. A civilian-mass audience


    my baby Gracie, we missed you!! I am extremely tired, no power, my eyes are hurting,
    it’s morning in Europe but it feels so dark…I am out of ouzo…oh,Katie ,oh,gracie

    Do As Harvey wrote:
    “please look at the big picture…”

    To our beloved 99.9% the other non-writing, non-commenting…YOU are the REAL HEART of BURN!!!

    and for those who are commenting…with WINGS or Not…Let’s Smile or no?

    LET IT BE ( for now) by BEATLES


    P.S ITALY, Italia stay strong!!!
    Dearest Mr.Harvey thank you for the COAL… I underestimated you.!! My apologies.

    NO need to REPLY…ZZZZ

  64. A civilian-mass audience

    “Democracy is the process by which people choose the man who’ll get the blame.”

    Bertrand Russell
    (English Logician and Philosopher 1872-1970)

    Therefore Finally in BURN we have establish DEMOCRACY ???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Good Morning, Good Afternoon & Good Evening
    Spring is in the air and Autumn winds are a blowin
    it’s a Global thing…

    – This is Space Cowboy – over –

    – requesting permission to re-engage – over –

    Howdee Y’all –

    i’m back and within range – over

    just had myself one of those long hot soaks in the tub, back scratchin
    and soap suddin, had myself a shave, unwrapped a fresh and mighty fine shirt,
    turquoise, brown, & tan hues, just for the occasion (NASA just love putting every
    darn thing in a bag or a wrap).

    Now, i can see while i’ve been away (Top Secret, y’all understand) you’ve been congregating
    with them there Ruskie’s again… Cosmos… this time i’ll let it slide seeing as it was a mighty
    fine insight, in the good name of photography… love that hue of blue…

    lets call it an act of public relations, in good faith for all humanity…
    but don’t forget, i got ma eye’s on y’all.

    Brawls… i’ve seen a fair few as you might well imagine, white flags too, but boys will be boys,
    sawdust and spit, but heck lets forget ’bout all that,
    y’all should know that i’m a joker, a smoker, a midnight toker… it’s the only way to burn…
    (- bobby, you got ya ears on? -: )

    Now seeing as i’ve been away, I ‘ve collected a few gifts for y’all,
    a little space booty ya might call it…

    firstly, something for y’all at burn,

    and i truly mean each and every clicker, scroller, snapper
    and voyeur, i’ve had this darn tune rolling round my head for days and days,
    but before we get to it, i must say, hat on ma heart,
    i think we’ve got ourselves a theme tune!

    heck everybody needs a theme tune…

    now i just gotta make some adjustments…

    Yeeee haaaawwwww !!!!

  66. A civilian-mass audience


    WE MISS YOU soooooooo MUCH ,I am really crying,yeah, yeah, Are you ok? I am so excited that I am out of words…BOBBY wake up

    check this out dunno… back on March …
    ARE YOU SURE you are not ME???

    A civilian-mass audience
    March 29, 2009 at 5:24 am

    FROM ALL THE BURN philosophers and the BURN civilians
    we send good energy to Do. As. Harvey!!!!!!!!!!!

    Johnny Cash- Ring of Fire 1968

    Almost out of time …1st of April

    SEE , what I am saying!!MY GRACIE B%%%TC WEAK UPPPPPPPP. your man is here!!!
    BURNians that’s why the earth is moving !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    NOW , I can rest…

  67. Cmon guys, let’s PROMISE ourselves that from now on, we will not write anything under a photograph/essay unless it is strictly related to that photograph/essay and we will continue our discussions at places like this under the Dialogues. This good trend had to start at some point and why don’t we start it NOW!

  68. BODO …
    I am with you.
    BTW, will you do a blog like David B for your WIP?

    If your read this, could you please repost your new email or write me personally? So sorry, I know you posted it already but that was when I was trying to cath up on 2 months of email piling up here, and things got very chaotic. I fear I lost a lot during that time … It felt like blowing smoke signs into the air and hoping the other person would see it. Or maybe the other person was me, after all. :))
    Unfortunately I cannot seem to find the comment here on Burn, where you left it.

    As to meeting in Brussels: I am pretty tight April/May. But I’ll have an photo-assignment in Brussels coming up, so we could just try to combine it all? I might know about the timing after easter … Guess you’ll be with your family anyway playing bunny-father?

    BTW … everytime I see an essay on boxing now I have to think of you. Have you seen this one by Maciek Nabrdalik?


  69. ERICA …
    I was just wondering if you could tell us a little about your impressions at this event with Antonin Kratochvil … The last times you wrote about such events, it was very vivid and thoughtfull and I was really wondering how he is as a person. I was doing some research about his work online but I have not found much about the person per se.
    Could you fill me in with your first (or second?) impression? I would greatly appreciate it.

    And I have to say that your suggestion for having things become more peaceful and focussed on the comment section of the submitted work could really work. Thanks for that!


  70. I believe these difficult times we are facing within our industry force us to think outside of the box in the ways of funding and assignments. I was once told by an editor that within photography, there are many slices of the pie and I can’t agree with her more. We must look beyond magazine and newspaper assignments to find ways to fund our projects and maybe it’s time that more of us look within our own backyard for assignments as apposed to traveling abroad.

  71. Let me start by saying I read 99% of the comments here. I’m trying really hard to figure out how Panos is such a destructive force here.

    He questions things in his own style, surely, sometimes it’s an obtuse one, but the guy has passion and questions everything — photograph and comment alike. Cries when out for Jim, who was hard-headed and blunt and disparaging, with none of the upside of Panos’ rants.

    It seems a clash of personalities and nothing else. I don’t agree with everything Protagoras has to say, but you know what, you can scroll down –away from the madness– if you want to.

    I think DAH has been pretty clear in his dedication to freedom of expression here, so let it go everyone, scroll down to the “Leave a Reply” box and continue on the conversation you want to have.

    Everyone seems like a Lobbyist here, DAH’s doing enough without having to wade in on every bitter argument.

    Or maybe, like Librarians…. shhhhhhh — we’re working/studying/being serious.

    Everyone has a right to their own reactions. And everyone has a right to have a reaction to those reactions.

    But there is no “authority” in interpersonal relations, the only choice is to separate.

  72. LASAL..

    I wasn’t in reporter mode :), but here are a few thoughts.

    As a man, Antonin K. appears kind and warm and playful, physically he seems to me like a bit of a good bear. One thing he said in response to a question about how he felt about the people he had photographed for the piece on America (many without jobs / money), was that he did the feeling later, when he wasn’t shooting. That when he is working, there is the separation between him and the person he is photographing. After some time, he can process/feel.This made a lot of sense to me in the context of his work..for me there is always something of an objectivity there, a distance. (I guess this made an impression on me because I am exactly the opposite when I am shooting..I sort of become the person I am photographing, there is a melding that often goes on and it is only afterward that I don’t feel..)

    He has long shot with film, and isn’t a huge fan of digital, but because of the size and weight of the camera. He wants to be ‘small’ when he is working. But when asked what he thought film adding to the story telling, his answer was ‘nothing’. He is working with a little camera now that is digital (G10?) and he said it has changed the way he shoots only in that now he shoots a great convenience, not worrying about changing / losing / buying/ transporting film.

    About the difference in shooting in a crisis/ conflict zone and in America, he didn’t seem to think his working method varied that much. Either way, he said, you have to get in to the people’s lives and situations..the difference is when you speak the language and when you don’t. Both have advantages, but not speaking the language allows him to just focus on the making the images.

    The work from In America is being auctioned to benefit can bid via ebay on the prints:

  73. A civilian-mass audience

    Dearest IORIO,

    It seems that we have so many LEFT-brainians in one place
    and I guess someone has not tried my ouzo yet …oups, I cannot talk about that either !!!!

    PANOS SKOULIDAS, you are a right brainian for sure…Believe me, I am too,
    but I am dyslexic…
    PANOS !!You are SO Greek!!! You are so Kazantzakis but you know better than me what his fate was.
    You got to understand that they will never understand…Never…but it’s all right dunno.
    BIG HUGS, no bugs no more:)))))))))))))

    PLATO once wrote:
    “keep those damned windows opened!!!! the minute the room gets stifling, i am outta here…”:

    Bring more smiles and more photos and more right brains, PLEASE

  74. A civilian-mass audience

    A single look at my wife Nancy, she quickly said, “you need to go”.

    DEAREST CARLAN TAPP Thank you and your wife!!!


    WE NEED TO GO, we need to run for the catastrophy .More info please…that’s a reason to be alert

  75. DAH

    …any chance for us to meet??…

    sure! I will be very happy to meet you and share some talk and some glasses of local good-good red wine… Just let me know your trip details as soon you fix them… ciao!

    what can i say!
    its the ultimate flatter just by bringing up the name of my favorite philosopher…
    NIKOS KAZANTZAKIS ( influenced by Nietzsche and Homer..)
    Yes, i know what happened to him… Kicked out by the greek “church”, suffered,
    humiliated…I wouldnt dare to “compare” to Nikos’s little toe..
    but i know exactly what you’re saying… and also yes… Democracy is finding the “right” person to blame…

    … and also yes.. the 99.9% of the Burn-ians do not write… but what an egotistical thought would be
    if i let someone convince me that they dont write because of me..! me??? yeah right!!!

    and yes AUDREY is very smart to see that this is the “season for Witch-Hunting”…at least for some..
    which is literally 2 people (one person that also uses a Troll name but also reappeared today as himself to support himself!! how obvious… the same person that our disagreements started early last year…:()
    I mean, the regulars here know what im talking about…

    .. and JARED…thanks,
    how hard is for those two people to scroll down and skip a comment or two???
    I dont have time to read all comments either… nobody does… but how funny though..
    that particular person cannot skip my comments…

    am i offensive to some?… Of course i am…
    Am i right in my “philosophical” rants at all times? Of course not…
    Do i represent DAH’s mind , words or philosophy? Of course not…
    Did i wish sometimes to hit the “edit” button? Of course yes…
    Are all my jokes “successful”? Of course not…

    There people i respect more than others… Yesterday for example i had a very brief conversation
    ( behind the scenes ) with BEN ROBERTS… the guy is brilliant… he “read” my character … he understands.. He is passionate but he gets it.. Are we gonna be best friends? Who cares..
    That is not the point…We will keep disagreeing..its fine…its part of the real game called “life”…
    I had a clash in the past with great friend now DAVID BOWIE..sorry BOWEN…:)
    He knows me now… as i see his endless love for his family…

    HAIK… has endless sense of humor and the most sensitive heart… when we first met in Venice at the DAH workshop he was fearless and honest.. he told me:..”i dont always like what you write..”… but he is probably my best friend now.. and he knows that i dont write to be liked…:)))

    JARED, again you are right…
    now that im “voted off the island” you know why… Enthusiasm to the ultimate degree….

    MIKE R..
    tried hard to explain over and over to the “chinese authorities” that
    they should let “BURN” fly free again over china..:))))
    and he succeeded… BURN is free again over the chinese airwaves and microwaves…
    but Mike is unable to convince that guy.. with the two or three occasional troll names…

    thank you for understanding… I totally see you are trying to protect me and i dig the example
    you offered with that photog… Thank you for recognizing my work.. and i do hear what you are saying…

    Anyway … the reason i started this comment is to make clear to everybody…
    “my opinions are totally mine… I do not represent DAH or YOUNG TOM or CHRIS B or ANDREW B.. or MIKE C,
    or ANTON or the wild animals in the Serenghetti…Its just me being me…”
    If you dont like it simply SCROLL…

    and ABELE…i dont know you personally but i would love to…
    and thanks for your EURO CENTS.. we need it over here..

  77. Hey Panos,

    I am not trying to protect you, I am sure you are capable of that.

    I am trying to say in a very polite british way that I find the ranting tireing and offensive.

    You are obviously an intelligent guy with energy an enthusiasm, use it.

  78. ALL (who went to Perpignan last year)

    Tonight I got an email with the Registration Form for “The Grand Prix 2009 CARE International du Reportage Humanitaire” … and I just have to wonder why I got it. Even if I am working on concepts for humanitarian projects … who would know? They are not on my website. So I wonder if everybody who went to Perpignan last year and had to register got this? At least that would be an explanation. If not, I will have to check if there are some cables sticking out of my head … or maybe a plug-in device????? Red pill – blue pill??


  79. ERICA …

    thanks for responding. It is apparently still awaiting moderation. I’ll check again tomorrow. It got late on this part of the planet …
    Really curious though – thank you so much for taking your time! :)

    Good night,

  80. Kathleen Fonseca






    *kiss-kiss-kiss-hug-a fresh bottle of Ouzo-and a flashlight*

    con mucho amor a todos:

  81. panos skoulidas




    Leaving early for Bakersfield for the weekend!
    You know me:)
    I won’t let u outside my travels..
    It feels good here at the CIVILIAN’s house..
    More mañana

  82. Kathleen Fonseca


    Yes, Civilian’s house is an oasis of calm and humor, good will and charity, intelligent bantering and affectionate embrace..Civilian brings the best out in everyone..i wonder how he does that?

    *huge smile*

    take care Panos..hope your’re going shooting in B’field.

    gnight, sweets


  83. Kathleen Fonseca

    Space Cowboy

    Hey, nice to meetcha! I hear a lot about you from Gracie, the brainy blond goddess..and Civilian who’s always braggin’ on you too..anyway, after reading the recent discourse under the Daria photo, the hair went up on the back of my neck till i saw this:

    “Brawls… i’ve seen a fair few as you might well imagine, white flags too, but boys will be boys,
    sawdust and spit, but heck lets forget ’bout all that,”

    and i thought, this Vaquero has it all right alright..just had to tell you, yep, it’s all about perspective and knowing when to buy a round for the house and everyone in it. So here’s a round to all of you, bottles, mugs, jars; creamy ale spilling over the side, served up just right to each and every one of you rounders, rumblers and rioters..peace on earth boys, drink up!

    Take care and goodnight :)


  84. heyyeah katie-cakes, i wonder where our boy jan has gone. made mighty sure i was damned serious when i wrote him but hmmm, ignored again. dont wanna doasharvey lose all hair if i be anywhere else but here.

    me as happy again, me spacecowboy and civilian all uptight in a can like sardines. leavin no space for hate, all air used up for just cruisin, bobbin, slow, like space bubbles… everywhere all over civilian’s space

    italy, tennessee, sendin you airy love in space bubbles, much too much from me…

  85. gracie gracie graceie

    your words like butterflies floating around me making me grin.

    thank you


  86. Kathleen Fonseca


    yeah, i knew you’d be happy soon as i saw the Space Cowboy name..Jan’ll be back..he’s just probably busy..shooting, doing the do whatever he be glad to see you tonight!


  87. kathleen…gracie…..

    a half-full bottle of red and no company in the cold sterile hostel….words keep us floating….

    what does it all mean? come read bobs dictation from earlier, in the latest dialogue thread….or shall we stay here and talk away the night like children telling scary stories to each other to keep the darkness at bay….

    hmm…i am of a mood, it appears…odd.

  88. andrew b,

    teehehehehe, tis not me butterflies around you makin you grin.
    must be bob’s hiccups or yours in tune to mike b’s ringtone of acoustic mad world…

    sleep well… oops take sum white pills, just a couple, white bottle not the amber
    above the sink right next to katiecakes’ wad o gum

    (glad you had fun…)

  89. gracie….imagination of bobbing golden curls laughing and diverting…more grins

    don’t cover your eyes with your hair – touch your soul and ours with your photographs!!!

    it is the butterfly words indeed that made me grin…and bb’s hiccups were lost in the acoustic ringtones of us all…

    white pills…hmm, an idea…but what of the morn?

  90. Kathleen Fonseca

    Andrew B

    Sometimes good company goes where good words simply cannot. Some nights he air is cold, the sky is black, the silence looms large. Words can be brittle and coarse, paying objective witness to things better put to bed like naughty children. That’s when wordy bubbles and bubbly words, gentle smiles, a bit of purely subjective warmth and gentility can ease a world of hurt.

    bestest code breaking on that wad of gum, Graciekins, it’s all written there in a fold of peppermint pattiecake..says uoy evol i..

    back to scanning for me..take care Andrew, Gracie..

  91. andrew,

    you must have had a lot of fun… to miss and feel lonely walking the night among weeds of thoughts of friendship, laughs, similar passions born a few hours old… i am shamelessly jealous…

    funny (might not be so) how much his precious time spent spitting nicely to douse a spring fire when beyond a few feet away such weeds (or so you think) of thoughts of nice things flourish from projects like this, on dark nights like this, across dark and cold seas, beyond land, beyond me

    katie-missie, UOY EVOL I… what language is that? universal?
    i do too.

    night duty over… zzzz
    smiles… butterflies… you… all… me… zzzz

  92. Kathleen Fonseca


    I read your heartwrenching account. It takes me to a wretched world but to one of human sharing, nurturing, surviving. Not all stories bear telling. Every day on the street i am faced with the choice of telling or withholding. If i tell, to what end? If i withhold? For what reason? I am not a professional at the level of others here. I have never been to the places you’ve been. But i have seen things here and know of so much that shocks, devastates, should be told. I don’t know what i would have done if i had gone to shoot bead boats and encountered humans living in a state of such staggering injustice. We think..*biting my lip as i recall*..that this stuff goes on in god-forsaken corners of the world. But i remember working nights in a Greek diner in NJ..i remember the Costa Rican dishwashers locked up in the diner for Thanksgiving when the diner was closed so they could deep clean the place. And i mean locked up. They slept in the basement and they cleaned while the owners were enjoying the day with families and an abundance of stuff to thank God for. What if there was a fire? It would have been a slaughter. I went there and called out to the guys outside the bathroom window, handed them turkey, apple pie and beer through the slits in the glass. I remember going to a broken-down wreck of a shack on the highway where a bunch of Bangladesh and Costa Rican dishwashers and bus boys lived while they were ’employed’ at another diner. The conditions were atrocious. i remember still after all these years the darkness, the stench, the miserable conditions. But even if i had been a photographer at the time, could i have told the story, should i have, would i have? Absolutely not. The danger to them, the danger to me would have been swift and very real.

    I know Greek diners on the highway in NJ do not relate to your experience but it’s the closest i have to a story that surely bore telling and yet required my lips to be sealed, really till now, as i tell it.

    Jan, the respect you paid your companions and the pain you took into your gut and that even now haunts you is very great. i can’t imagine doing what you did any differently. There is no devil down below. He is here on earth and he is us.

    It’s odd, isn’t it that we can be assaulted and brutalized and yet our camera stays with us, a part of us like our arm or hand.

    Your account was very moving.

    i don’t know quite what else to say…


  93. Kathleen Fonseca


    lovely say it like no one else’re like champagne fizz indeed…sweet dreams luscious poetess :)

  94. A civilian-mass audience

    IT’s our party and we love it
    It’s our BURNing and we are rolling!!!!

    you are bubble -cious, oh! so luscious:))
    you are shamelessly genius, my gosh so precious:))
    you became judicious!
    looking so adventurous!
    ai,ai ai, contumacious!
    yes, you are auspicious!
    mighty propitious!
    feeling capricious!

    dearest Plato,
    Katie wrote that we can bring ouzo, so here you have it…
    Let’s blame Katie today

    BURN is SO salacious and I feel lascivious but I am so mendacious!!!


  95. I’ll write you a separate email …
    Somehow I feel too sober for this part of the blog right now

    Good morning yall!!!
    I have some aspirines here btw.

  96. A civilian-mass audience

    Lassal are u a LADY philosopher ??
    Please don’t drink aspirines, I got you ouzo

  97. A civilian-mass audience

    LASSAL don’t write a separate e-mail…
    That’s the place to be…
    But, if you have time I have to make a correction…(SEE TIMES AND TIMING)if and when u have time.

    Lucky YOU…Perpignan!!!!!!!!!!!!

  98. A civilian-mass audience


    Greek dinners…it’s weird but I wanna give you the biggest hug EVER…

    “i don’t know quite what else to say…”
    I am waiting for your book!!!

  99. A civilian-mass audience


    Because “Your babies” need some “green” …You know what I mean!!!Western union again??

  100. Kathleen Fonseca

    oh dunno..just let’s say spanokopita :))

    Civilian..wanted to tell you, the day of the earthquake, my ‘baby’ was in Italy..a terrible fright for me and i couldn’t call her because she had forgotten to prepay her cell phone in Madrid..luckily all is well..

    and yes..i am in terrible need of horizontal zzzzzz’ing but am doing some gorgeous scans..

    later and thanks for all of YOU!


  101. A civilian-mass audience

    I work with Red Cross…Too much pain one soul can bare!!
    If I see your “baby” I will give her spanakopita:)))

    that’s why I feel that we have to celebrate every minute , every second that we are “HERE AND THERE”

    KAT- Scan-zzzing

  102. A civilian-mass audience


    can you translate The above about asbestos…?

    Or do you speak French?
    By the way : You are so right ( post Daria’s)
    When is your book coming out?

  103. A civilian-mass audience

    MR. HARVEY wrote,

    “Carlan deserves all the support he can get…”

    What about signatures, I am American too..I wanna sign… that’s my country too
    Let’s move our civilian ashes!!!

    Please, YOU the 99% out there if you have something in mind don’t be silent…
    Silence is DEATH

    THANK in advance for your COOPERATION

  104. ALL….

    off to the beach..Carolina do NOTHING….birds, dunes, sea, weather….to do EVERYTHING….

    back here by tomorrow, or well, whenever….thanks for the vacation……

    peace, love…david

  105. A civilian-mass audience


    It’s your PARTY and you can go!!
    It’s your shore and you can flow!!
    Kisses to your family and to your girlfriend and to your bald head that gives us so much HAPPINESS

    MAY the good WINDS be with You…

  106. Civilian

    apologies for this here darn delayed reply,

    ya see, out here time is like a piece of elastic,
    one earth hour is but a brief moment…
    Fact is, i’ve just been ’bout 20 minutes, out doing a space walk,
    (practical more than celebratory) as I needed to re-attach a loose canopy screw
    after the long return voyage…



    what can I say!
    what a welcome home!!!

    Serendipity my good friend, Serendipity…

    happy as a lamb in May that ya picked up the vibrations,
    tip ma hat to ya, credit where credit’s due,
    it’s a beautiful thing to send salutations to all the EPF dudes and ladies.
    Fine as creamy gravy.
    If truth be told, I kinda gotta hankering for the ol black & white version,
    1963, Johnny looking all fresh,
    raising hell – YEAH!

    Now to the space booty!

    (and all the Philosophers)
    that’s one heck of a possy!

    way way back, when i got ma first photography book
    (well it was ma second but no need to split hairs
    on this matter) and old friend introduced me to the
    world of Madame Yevonde a true pioneer of photography,
    a society/ personality portrait photographer,
    in the early 1930’s she began experimenting with color
    thanks to the short lived ‘Vivex’ technic,
    talk ’bout back in the day…

    Some time about 1935 Madame Yevonde began a project, a project about
    Greek Goddesses! no less!!! you see Civi, you see! in appropriate costume
    and surrounded by appropriate objects. Unfortunately my copy of this book is
    not to hand (NASA are kinda fussy ’bout personal baggage) but
    I’ve found a few images from the series.

    Heck if i could ruffle ya hair and give ya a slap on the back,
    hell, maybe you should do it for me, get the feeling, feel the sensation…

    but heck! enough of ma yakking,

    let me introduce:

    Mrs Richard Hart-Davis as ‘Ariel’

    Lady Bridgett Elizabeth Felicia Henrietta Augusta Poulett as ‘Arethusa’

    Gertrude Lawrence as the Muse of Comedy

    Madame Yevonde – Self Portrait

    put THAT in ya pipe and smoke it!

    Yeeee haaaawwww!!!!

  107. “Lassal are u a LADY philosopher ??”


    Opinions as to my gender (and age for that matter) for some reason seem to differ wildly.

    As to if I am a philosopher … I do not think so. Using wrong side of the brain to think about abstract ideas for too long …

    But then again, do not forget what DAH wrote to me a while ago: that the way I say that I am and the way that I actually am seem to be two different things …

    :o) guess it does not really matter after all :o)
    My personal philosophy: only what you actually DO counts. Everything else is unimportant.


    What should I find under times&timing?

  108. Civi,

    Yaahhoooooooo weeeeeeee!

    what a welcome home!

    apologies for the delay…
    ya see, out here time is elastic,
    one hour earth time is but a moment for me…

    matter of fact i’ve been out on a space walk
    for about 20 minutes, that’s all,
    (practical rather than celebratory)
    fixing a loose screw on ma canopy

    anywayz, i’m back with ya now,

    Serendipity, serendipity…

    happy as a lamb in May that you picked up on ma vibrations
    tip ma hat off to ya, credit where credit’s due

    it’s a beautiful thing, to send out salutations to all the EPF dudes & ladies,
    fine as creamy gravy.
    If truth be told, i still hanker for the black and white version,
    1963, Johnny looking all fresh and fired up!
    Hell yeah!!!

    but i’m all a yakking here and I got this space booty for ya.

    well, it’s also for all them there philosophers,
    I reckon they might have an interest in this one too…

    Long, long time ago, heck before i’d even been into orbit,
    no tell a lie, i’d already had that privilege,
    i received as gift, my first photography book.
    well it was ma second, but no need to split hairs here…

    A certain Madame Yevonde. Let me tell ya, she was a pioneer
    of photography back in them there 1930’s…
    so, yes, she was a pioneer, working with color, Vivex they called it.
    She was all kooky an experimental…

    Anyhow, she did a project around 1935 based on Greek Goddesses no less!
    Ya see Civi this is for you, you, you.

    Heck if i could reach out an ruffle ya hair all friendly like and
    give you a god ol slap on the back, well heck, that’s what i’d do right
    now. Maybe you could do it for me, feel the sensation…

    so, she made a whole series ‘Goddesses and Others’ and if only i had that
    book to hand, but NASA are mighty touchy ’bout personal baggage on board an all…

    anywayz, I found a few here examples,


    Lady Bridgett Elizabeth Felicia Henrietta Augusta Poulett (now, ain’t that a mouthfull) as ‘Arethusa’

    Gertrude Lawrence as Thalia the Muse of Comedy

    Mrs Richard Hart-Davis as ‘Ariel’

    and a self-portrait, Madame Yevonde herself (talk ’bout old skoooool)

    YEEEE HAAAAWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    I owe you an apology. I now see that you and your postings are a gift to this community. You are creating an oasis of peace in the midst of what can sometimes feel like a war zone here on Burn. Thank you for YOU.


  110. A civilian-mass audience

    Dearest LASSAL you are such a dunno!!

    I would like to know if it is possible, if it is not going to be such a hassle ,my dearest Lassal,
    ARE YOU A FREAKING LADY???? That’s all I am asking !!!
    Times and Timing: I have a huge posting .109 names (BURNIANS) next to your names is the greek philosophers
    name, according to your PSYCHO profil (laughing). I did the profil, one dyslexic civilian, non photographer
    (SO much laughing)…LIKE a Greek ancient comedy…(kisses)If u have time I need an aspirin too!

    Now to the MOTHER OF ALL,

    “I want to be very close to someone I respect and admire and have somebody who feels the same way about me.”
    Richard Bach

    AS I wrote before you are my inspiration and my strength. It’s my honor . THANK YOU
    Your website by the way is marvelous!!! May I suggest a baby cup of ouzo?
    Don’t worry!OUZO on Panos and Katie ,please:))

  111. A civilian-mass audience

    Now to the MOTHER OF ALL

    “I want to be very close to someone I respect and admire and have somebody who feels the same way about me.”
    Richard Bach

    AS I wrote before you are my inspiration and my strength. It’s my honor .
    Your website by the way is marvelous!!!


  112. A civilian-mass audience

    THANK you my man. MY apologies for my frustration.
    See, the level of My testosterone is TOOO high.


  113. A civilian-mass audience

    Lasalle is a very rare male first name and a very popular surname (source: 1990 U.S. Census).

    like Abele is a very rare male first name and a popular surname (source: 1990 U.S. Census)

    like Audrey (\a(u)-drey, aud-rey\) is a feminine and masculine given name of Old English origin meaning “noble strength”

    E.T.C, E.T.C
    LOVE U all

  114. Thales of Miletus … I see.
    I like that one, even if I am not into direct politics at all… Although Thales and I seem to share the same view on marrying. And to try to get as many explanations off some god’s shoulders and into natural laws would be standing on my agenda too.
    So: yeah! I feel comfortable with this part. Thanks!

    Btw, … oh well. Time will tell anyway.
    Take care of your hormones my friend.

    Out with the dog,

  115. Things are quiet around here, so I’ll share with you a memory of my dad, Jim. Every Friday and Saturday evening of his later years were spent in the local British Legion club. After one such excursion (in his 80s) he found his way home only to find that his front door key would not open the door. After much fumbling he was surprised to find someone opening the door from the inside. “What are you doing in my flat!” said Jim.

    “It’s not your flat, Jim” said his neighbour, “You live upstairs”. Classic. I miss him.


  116. A civilian-mass audience

    Mike R,

    This happens to me sometimes, I guess it’s the ouzo.

    OK !!! I buy TWO Rounds tonight, one for me and one for PAPA JIM.
    TO JIM ( Mikes R’s DADDY) VIVA GEIA MAS !!!!!!!!!!!!

  117. A civilian-mass audience

    Lassal, You are so right!!!

    WHERE IS DAVID B??? and Tor Capa???
    Are u OK, GUYS??? WE miss youu !!!!!!!!!!

  118. Thanks Civilian, I’m sure that Jim would appreciate it. Remind me to tell you of when the man in the lower-floor apartment “died”.


  119. A Civilian- mass audience

    When you will come to your home in Greece you will tell us all the stories. I COUNT on YOU

  120. panos skoulidas

    Special thanks and kiss for your
    You teach me a lot..
    See u soonest up in Look3….

    Mike R…
    Is the greatest man around..

  121. Look3!!!

    It seems manyare going. As must must must all connect one eve…and burn.

    DAH enjoy the shore, I say that even though I know it needs not be said to you. I wish I had a day of 2 for simple hammering of nails or fixi g of things and sunrises over water.

    Have had my fill of airplanes today, and not yet home….perhaps this margarita will help :)

    Good light to all


  122. ANDREW B! :))))

    quick note, because I AM SO WOBBLY TODAY ;)))….limber of hair, stubborn of skull, wine-bottled pooped ;))….but god damn, it was SUCH A PLEASURE to talk and drink with you….but i guess it really became my bottle instead of OUR bottle ;)))))…..but, cant wait until u return to meet the 2 better photographers/thinkers/cool people ;)))))

    yes, i remember all the hugs…i guess yes, u can reveal to Burn the REAL Bob Black ;)))>..



    what a great pleasure to meet Andrew last night….and even though they (he and Berube) got me to ‘write’ a drunken post last night (about photographs, songs and hairs, which i think is BURRIED deep in burn…I WONT tell u where it is ;)) )….after helping Berube edit for his upcoming exhibition (yes, David, i edited 60 plus pics into 10….so, i can do a short edit ;))) )….we went to a waterspot….

    ok, no poetry today, im exhausted….but just sending love and wibes to andrew, mike, david, SPACE COWBOY, CIVILIAN, Panos, Herve and all the rest of Y’ALL….

    soon, you’ll get a bob black text…but that is a surprise for later ;)))

    so, MUSIC:



  123. Civi, all…

    3rd time i’m trying to send this, wierd Gremilns out there, first time my ‘puter system crashed,
    second’s lost in space…

    what a welcome home!

    apologies for the delay…
    ya see, out here time is like elastic,
    one hour earth time is but a moment…

    matter of fact i’ve been out on a space walk
    (practical rather than celebratory)
    fixing a loose screw on ma canopy

    anywayz, i’m back with ya now,

    Serendipity, serendipity…

    i’m happy as a lamb in May that you picked up on ma vibrations,
    tip ma hat off to ya, credit where credit’s due, it’s a beautiful thing, to send out salutations to all the EPF dudes & ladies, fine as creamy gravy.

    i still kinda hanker for that black and white version though,
    1963, Johnny looking all fresh and fired up!
    Hell yeah!!!

    but i’m all a yakking here
    and i got this space booty for ya.
    well, it’s also for all them there philosophers,
    reckon they might have an interest in this one…

    Long, long time ago, heck before i’d even been into orbit,
    no tell a lie, i’d already had that privilege,
    i received as gift my first photography book. well it was
    ma second, but no need to split hairs here…

    A certain MADAME YEVONDE.

    Let me tell ya, she was a pioneer if ever…
    of photography back in them there 1930’s
    so, yes,a pioneer, working with color, Vivex they called it.

    Anywayz she did a project around 1935 based on Greek Goddesses no less!Ya see Civi this is for you, you, you.

    Heck if i could reach out an ruffle ya hair all friendly like and give a god ol slap on the back, well heck, that’s what i’d do right now. Maybe you could do it for me, feel the sensation…

    anywayz she made a whole series and if only i had that book to hand,
    but NASA are mighty touchy ’bout personal baggage on board an all…

    anywayz, I found a few here examples,


    Lady Bridgett Elizabeth Felicia Henrietta Augusta Poulett as ‘Arethusa’

    sending a few more as a seperate transmission –

    Houston y’all might wanna twist some dials and punch some keys
    (that’s tech speak for help)


  124. SPACE COWBOY! ;))))))))))))))))))))))))



    THAT’S probably why so many posts ;)))…

    ok, listen to Sigur….the SIGNAL IS CLEAR IN ICELAND (or hovering above island)…

    gotta go now for the weekend…

    sending u BLACK FAMILY love and songs to SPACE!


  125. panos skoulidas

    ……….. sorry to interrupt and announce this……..
    13 new soldier suicides addressed today by our president, and this for this month only…
    its an epidemic……..
    bring the boys BACK home
    …3 soldiers call the national suicide hotline DAILY…
    (sorry for the above… i had to let it out..:(


    i’ve been known to forget what planet i’m on before!
    but don’t be tellin Houston ; )

    SPACE LAG… Heck Bobby, Space Lag…

    Auspicious FULL MOON is a comin…

    Bobby, i picked up this transmission and saved it for ya’ll

    Yeeee haaaawwww!

    Yeeee F*ing haaaawwww!

  127. A Civilian- mass audience


    you are back and BURN is BURNing. WE love you

    Your wish is granted,
    What I was thinking???

    Madame Yevonde !!!!Yeah , that’ a blast. My man, You are really the Space.

    I have to go ,I am making keys for some fellow ITALIANS… I am bringing more civilians in your house.
    Abele, Italia stay strong, don’t loose hope, I am making KEYS…

    BOBBY, Dima, Marina, SPACE, MY Gracie,Baby Katie, Our Patricia, Audrey, Panos, DAvidB, TorCapa, Haik, Herve,Lassal and his dog H, Mike R, Erica, Katharina, Ian, AndrewB,Tom Young, Jared, Joe …….

    But I will be back…LOVE YOU B%^#$ches PLATO , Socrates I Love u all !!!!

  128. A civilian-mass audience


    Move it, take your polaroids, iphones, ragefinders, blurays, leicas, formaicas …
    go We are waiting to WOAOUOAUA’s. Do we ask that much??

    Ok, enough, I am just a civilian…


    Thank you for the positive push!

    Ok. Now you really made me feel bad. You obviously did not look for or see or find the selfportraits.
    I was in a foul mood yesterday and always when that happens I get nitty-gritty literal. So I was saying that I am no “FUCKING LADY” … Get it? Yeah, I am a female photographer all right. And Hunter is my dog. Have to get this straight now. It was not really my intend to misguide you – I was just fooling around.

    DAH took me for an old German guy for quite some time, and it became some sort of running joke. But as I mentioned, I do not really care. In fact I find it very amusing. :o)

    I think I would only mind if people still thought I was an old German guy AFTER meeting me in person. I guess THAT really would get me thinking.

    Ok. Enjoy easter and thanks for the positive vibrations.
    Great day outside … I’m gone for now


  130. A civilian-mass audience


    LASSAL is una mamachita Fantastika!!!! Check her out.
    Girl you are cool, not like daria but you have it.:)))) please ,please a joke…I hope.

    LASSAL, you are a goddess !!! Serious! But, you should feel bad cause now I will have to change your role since you are a girlie.
    Audrey , u are my sister.


    And I have to SAY IT LOUD, very very loud

    BURN HAS THE SEXIEST CHICKS AROUND. I will drink to the BURN LADIES today!!!
    And wait till you see the 99% civilians !!!! VIVA to the LADIES.

    Running , more keys for the Italians.
    KALA tsourekia to all of you!!!!

  131. A civilian-mass audience

    AND i can NOT forget

    MY GRACIE, the sexiest Blondie around

    and of course

    the fiesty , the dynamite, the T.N.T MRS. KATHLEEN FONSECA

    BURN rocks !!! More Photos please ,ease on the lighting…( see SPACE COWBOY )

    Running like BOBBY

  132. A civilian-mass audience

    What About that BEN?
    BURN ladies are HOT,HOT,HOT :)))
    Love u Ben, I saw your face too, Freaking HOT, HOT, HOT …

    Sorry but as SpaceCowBoy wrote:

    “happy as a lamb in May that ya picked up the vibrations,
    tip ma hat to ya, credit where credit’s due”

    OUPS !! Blame the ouzo,the Italians, spring,
    You ALL looking BEAUTIFUL tonight

    REALLY running

  133. DAH – a Magnum Moan for Easter. I recently sent the following e-mail to Magnum London via the “Contact us” button on the magnum website.

    Dear Magnum, I wish to purchase Larry Towell’s Indecisive Moments DVD but when I attempt to order I find that the DVD is shipped from the U.S.A. via United States Postal Service at a cost of£24.22. This is more that the cost (£22.02)of the DVD!
    Is it possible to purchase the DVD from the U.K. office, thus saving on shipping costs?

    I’ve sent the e-mail twice but I’ve had no reply. From a business perspective it makes sense to me to keep your shipping costs as low as possible.

    O.k. moan over. Hope the Outer Banks are giving you good light. My cat is led on the sofa next to me snoring for England. Sometimes at night he wakes my wife and I up, he snores so loud!

    Best wishes,


  134. David and all,

    I miss you all and slide-show party!
    i’ve entered the graduate school of art this year… So I must study and work at clinic together and also take pictures :))) I couldn’t leave much comments on Burn… sorry…

    I wrote this comments at oher section but I re-write this here…

    David, are you going to go to the Seattle for workshop on thos weekend?
    My daughter lives Seattle …she is a student of graduate school.
    She really wants to see you . :)))
    Is it possible to visit slide show party or workshop place ?
    But the link is not open.

    “Master Class Workshop Seattle, Washington… April 11-15, 2009 please contact Art Wolfe workshops

    I wish you all enjoy Spring! :)))

    P.S. Panos, Are you fine ? …

  135. MIKE R

    I did have the same issue with this DVD. Erica is giving the right advise, I too called the Magnum Office in NY and it was no problem at all. Just complicated. I do not quite remember how much I ended up paying, something around 6 EUR I think it was. Via PayPal. It was the reason for finally registering there :o)

    I have not yet bought the book from Jonas Bendiksen “The Places we Live” for exactly the same reason: Every time I remember I want to order it, it’s either Christmas, New Year, Weekend or Easter (right now) and the NY office is closed …

    I just imagine how many more books/DVDs etc. they would sell if they got the shipment to Europe (+?) right … hmmm …

    your comment (about Kratochvil) apparently is still avaiting moderation. I wonder what you wrote in there :-))

    Happy Easter to all off you!

    Off for a joint family egg search …

  136. Erica, Lassal, thanks for the advice. Due to my speech impediment (stutter, slight: until I have to make telephone calls or answer difficult questions such as “What is your name?”) I always avoid telephone calls unless absolutely necessary. It’s not all bad: I do have quite a broad vocabulary – I need it so that if I can’t say one word I can use another! Laughing, all; laughing.

    But I do have an Ace in the hole! A wonderful wife, who will telephone for me (she doesn’t know yet).

    DAH, with regard to how important editing is and how difficult it can be; how about posting an unedited essay and asking the audience to edit the essay down to, say 20 photographs (and say WHY one photographs makes the cut, another doesn’t)? You do the same, so does the photographer. Then we compare.

    Could be interesting?

    Best to all,


  137. panos skoulidas

    yes , thank you..

    Audrey, Haik,……. sorry i fell asleep…
    Check emails……
    Lets do this and lets involve more Burn-ed souls…

  138. by the way, i meant to post this last week after all the madness of arguments…so, rather than rules, I think we need to create an Arugment rule….A la Python ;)))))

    this IS BURN ;)))))))))))….i recognize myself ;)))))

  139. panos skoulidas

    ( i see we are checking the same sources….)

  140. Bob b

    sorry for the delay repliedf to your post about our visit – I have not seen it until now! Perhaps it was in the bob black holding area when I last read here….

    If I wasn’t ablet o make clear in my ramblings before, The Evening with Mike B and bb was great fun. No bob, it wasn’t all *your* bottle, I recall a couple times looking over to see you filling my glass to the brim – literally – whilest we filled our minds and souls with good vibrations.

    and the post was brilliant, the challenges it faced was the iphones “smart” dictionary that didn’t want to let us say things the way they were typed (similar to my later postings….I will claim that the problem was technicality, not capability)…

    anyway…grand time, I have yet to look at the pictures in my camera, but will post some somewhere if they are suitable…

    now back to a rainy grey day in the bluegrass…

    good light all,

  141. andrew b,

    i see… with or without your beer (beer in bobby’s belly)
    i see you are still in the mood to be poetic…
    sweetest girl… acoustic. youre cool!!
    weeds of thoughts of friends and happenings…
    i still am shamelessly jealous.

  142. my dearest katie-baby,

    whenever i hear your words… about anything: praise, thrills, even that irate…
    i feel like…

    a pink piglet rolling in heavenly pigly mud
    a giggly newlywed in 2000 count egyptian cotton covers
    toddler whirling in an unfurling tire swing
    a grandma kissing a newborn’s toes

    you give me such such joy with your splendid piecings of old words.
    you can never know.
    thank you.

  143. Kathleen Fonseca


    what did i say, what did i do?

    i remember going home one night. i was 17. My parents sat in the living room. They looked at me. Their faces were clouded, preoccupied with some kind of terrible worry. My mother said somberly, “Kathie, you have no idea how good it is to see you”…i shuffled my weight to my other foot, bit my lip, wondered, ‘what did i do now?’ and answered nervously, “uh, ok-k-k”. So she said again, “That’s all, Kath’ it’s just so good to see you”. And my father nodded in agreement. I realized later, it wasn’t what i had done, it was what i hadn’t done that had made them so happy. Something unfortunate that one of my other siblings had done. But right then, that minute, it was a good feeling to know that just by being me, just showing up had made somebody so happy.

    You just made me feel the same way. How happy you just made me.

    *stupid grin*

    un beso carinosa

  144. *smile*
    what you say
    i savor
    your words roll on my tongue like… like pop rocks!!!

    im done marching night duty for the night. im not putting in overtime this time.
    gnite my friend, kindred.

  145. Kathleen Fonseca

    sweet heart dreams, hearty dreams dreamt sweetly and sweet dreamy hearts

    chica linda


  146. A civilian-mass audience

    Painting is silent poetry, and poetry is painting that speaks.
    – Plutarch

    MY GRACIE and KATIE you are goddesses !!!!
    SPACECOWBOY was right.
    You are


    Too much too say …so little time…Coming back…cause today…

    AND I Like it
    making keys!!!

  147. Kathleen Fonseca


    hahahahahaha…yer so cute, my lil Dunno…

    Yes, it’s your party, yes, yes, we’re spring cleaning at Easter time, prying open those shutters, pushing back the cobwebs, letting the rains soak our faces, arms outstretched, drops dripping down palms onto wrists forearms tickling underarms, licking up the drops, laughterlaughlaughing…

    yes, it’s springtime, redemtpion, renewal, renovation, roll over Beethoven, it’s Civilian’s party and he is soooo happy.

    g’night g’night light the light i’m comin’ home


  148. A civilian-mass audience

    I wish I was BOBBY BLACK today…
    I wish I can write like you Bobby…

    BUT I wish JIM POWERS was here too..
    How can I forget :

    “hope Chris will let us know how this does in the marketplace. I would be interested in that.”
    See Storm …


    HOW your PHOTO GREECE will do in the marketplace ???
    Good energy to all!
    Where is Rafal too?? where is Reimar, where is DavidB, where is Herve, where is Marcin , WHERE ARE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!

    I don’t need a friend who changes when I change and who nods when I nod; my shadow does that much better. – Plutarch

    FROM the Civilians of the World. VIVA

  149. A civilian-mass audience

    By the way,
    MR. MIKE R,

    beautiful IDEA about the unedited essay PROJECT… It will be a Hell…In HEAVEN !!!


  150. A civilian-mass audience


    Wish you the Best…

    And ANDREW B

    Sorry what about Athens, Greece ??

  151. Kathleen…

    How uncourteous of me.
    Darn space-lag, still gives me the jitters…
    I clean missed your note.
    It always takes longer than i give consideration, to adjust
    back to sweet little earths orbit, rotational pull and other factors…

    So, Howdee,

    pleased to make your acquaintance ; )

    have a Sarsaparilla on me!

    Yeeee haaaawwww!

  152. Gracie girl,

    Not sure if your all a sleepin now…
    Warm inside your dreams,
    Anyhow, it feels kinda quite tonight, still as a mill pond in August…

    It’s been one heck of a journey and i’m still feeling all
    Space lagged and messed up (even after shaving, scrubbing up and ma new shirt
    an all). This here darn capsul, it gets mighty cramped after a while… still, space walks
    keep me fit and heck, who am I kinding, it’s one heck of buzz!, darn addictive if you ask me…

    Still, I’m waiting for the boys at Houston to give me clearance to return home
    (I mean your side of the o-zone)… smell the sweet smell of fresh grass, feel the breeze…

    ya see, they got me out here looking for UFO’s an all,
    even Harvey’s talking ‘bout ‘em lately…

    Darn, I’ve just gotta shake off this darn space lag…

    Anyways, I hope ya got to see the night sky… Full Moon rising an all,
    Heck, I miss that too… out here I’m watching the Earth rise, enough to make a man cry… beautiful sweet earth

    Okey Dokey, I better pull ma self together,

    Don’t be a stranger now…

    Yeeee haaaawwww!


  153. A civilian-mass audience


    Don’t ZZZ yet!!

    Look who is here !! SPACEcowboy

    writes to you

    Come on Baby Katie

    He talks weird, about saparilla , tequilla,mamachita…No clue

  154. A civilian-mass audience

    Beauty MY CRACIE,

    don’t even think to ZZZZZ

    He is talking about The Full Moon…

    OUTA OF HERE. Space you are so smart ,Mother Father !!!

  155. Civi,


    thought i was all alone tonight…

    made from a root, Mexican i believe,
    medicinal purposes… with carbonated sweet water,
    mighty refreshing…


    Yeeee haaaawwwww!

  156. i all so sudden shy me space cowboy…
    you tawkin bout me and alls you gettin dreamy..
    been sickof huggin meself, civilian an katie
    now me lashes fannin enuff to roll em tumbleweeds
    and feed a hurricane
    i better get me some fluff n sleep

    welcome back
    glad ur on the airwaves again

  157. Darn it Civi

    any ‘ol critter can talk ’bout the moon and the stars,

    Yeeee haaaawwwww! ehhh!
    throats feeling a little sore – might have to fix ma-self
    a bowl…..

  158. Kathleen Fonseca

    sarsparilla SPACE cadet COWBOY type guy

    yeah, i know sarsaparilla! we used to peel bark off trees in the woods that had the taste but without the fizz..

    it’s 3:30am..i know about lag…not the spaced out kind but whacked out dead on my scanning butt lag..

    Civilian and Gracie generally keep my lids open..but i can see that your banter is pretty lively too. Now if you’ll forgive me i really have to get on my hands and knees and drag my tired ass off to bed. Have an egg cream on me..If you know what that is then i know you know New York as well as you do the inside of a space capsule..and if you don’t then here ya go (posting a link will probably get me moderated but here goes nothin’)

    Don’t worry about missing my post. But thanks for taking note of it..

    nightall, thanks for waking me up CIVILIAN..the keypad was putting dents in my cheek.


  159. Gracie!

    thought you’d be all a sleepin…

    even space cowboys get the blues! ; )))

    before you get yo-self back to sweet slumber
    got a lil o tune for ya!
    nothing rawkus mind you, saving that for
    another occasion

    don’t know if your anywhere near Virginia

    YEEEE HAAAAWWWW! now that feels better!!!!!!!!!!!

  160. Kathleen Fonseca

    Gracie girl

    i thought you were bed-ridden! ok.well, i’m going..and doncha worry, i’ll take all the hugs you care to dish out, cuz they’re blondbaby hugs, the sweet kind that smell nice and fix what ails a body.

    now i am gonzo spaghetti-o



    i will not be in Seattle this weekend…there was some disorganization at that workshop or some lack of communication, and we canceled it before it was even started….i am so sorry to miss your daughter…

    congratulation to you on entering the graduate school of art…you will be the top student i am sure…..frankly, i think you should be teaching at the graduate school of art…

    i hope our paths cross again soonest…it is always such a pleasure to speak with you and to see your vision…

    wishing all good health and happiness to you and to your family….

    cheers, david

  162. A civilian-mass audience

    I WAS loking for you Mr. KIRCHER,

    A civilian-mass audience
    April 6, 2009 at 3:46 am


    I checked your website…Europe:
    PALAMIDI FORT ( NAFPLIO ), GREECE!!!Is this your baby lady in the photo???!!!

    You got some killer shots too. Waiting for you book!

    Enough with the Ouzo let’s have some MYTHOS. When is your book coming out?

  163. MIKE R…

    we were going to do exactly that at one point when we were going to have a “work in progress” section…it sounds like a good idea until you actually think of what would happen and how it would go online . ….for serious mentoring and editing i think the behind the scenes person to person is the way to go..even trying to maintain contact by Skype with the five photographers i am now editing is daunting…i certainly know from past experience here that a few hours in a room with a photographer and their prints and the result would take months on line….a “free for all” edit on line leads us to…what?? what would you expect would be the upshot of it all??? are you looking for a group edit?? a democratic vote or for an arbiter?? there are so many different kinds of edits that various stories need…some need major overhaul, some need just a bit of tweaking and sequencing…there is editing…then there is sequencing…and both take some time and thought…

    in the past , photographers would put up a link with say 20 pictures..then everyone would jump in and say something like “i like 15,16, and 19” and someone else would say “well, i like 13, 14, and 20” and so it would go…pretty difficult to end up with anything concrete with this method…however, if you have something else in mind or if i am not correctly understanding your idea, please let me know…i am up for whatever works…we have the space , so we can do what we want….

    for photographers i mentor they always tell me that the most fascinating part is the moment when a group of photographs is edited down and sequenced….almost all see a moment of revelation and clarity…this experience is i think one of those things best done one on one and in person..several writers here like Patricia , Eric, Panos, and Kyunghee Lee have done it both ways…ask them….

    cheers, david

    cheers, david

  164. LASSAL

    here it is again, without the link!

    I wasn’t in reporter mode :), but here are a few thoughts.

    As a man, Antonin K. appears kind and warm and playful, physically he seems to me like a bit of a good bear. One thing he said in response to a question about how he felt about the people he had photographed for the piece on America (many without jobs / money), was that he did the feeling later, when he wasn’t shooting. That when he is working, there is the separation between him and the person he is photographing. After some time, he can process/feel.This made a lot of sense to me in the context of his work..for me there is always something of an objectivity there, a distance. (I guess this made an impression on me because I am exactly the opposite when I am shooting..I sort of become the person I am photographing, there is a melding that often goes on and it is only afterward that I don’t feel..)

    He has long shot with film, and isn’t a huge fan of digital, but because of the size and weight of the camera. He wants to be ’small’ when he is working. But when asked what he thought film adding to the story telling, his answer was ‘nothing’. He is working with a little camera now that is digital (G10?) and he said it has changed the way he shoots only in that now he shoots a great convenience, not worrying about changing / losing / buying/ transporting film.

    About the difference in shooting in a crisis/ conflict zone and in America, he didn’t seem to think his working method varied that much. Either way, he said, you have to get in to the people’s lives and situations..the difference is when you speak the language and when you don’t. Both have advantages, but not speaking the language allows him to just focus on the making the images.


    i am ready to work with you by Skype…..David, you are first in line, and i apologize for being a bit behind schedule with you..i so enjoyed our first edit and am looking forward to the second go around(i just tried calling you)…Bodo, i am anxious to see what you may have done since our first conversation….i am away from New York, at the beach, and in a good mood to edit….

    cheers, david

  166. Regarding the multitude of ways to receive help editing/sequencing an essay, I’ve tried them all…except Skype which I don’t yet have.

    In the ten months I’ve been working on Falling Into Place, I’ve received online edits (ie., I like 2, 7, 12, 15, etc.), email edits, telephone edits, snail mail edits with prints, and in person edits both with prints and with images shown in the editing software on my laptop. They have all been helpful but, not surprisingly, in person editing wins hands down for energizing process and effective results.

    For instance, in two hours of concentrated effort a week ago at a crowded NYC diner DAH and I pared down my project from 79 to 53 images and finalized the layout for my Blurb book. We were even joined for part of the time by Natgeo photographer Ira Block who just happened to show up at this popular-with-photogs meeting place. It was a remarkable experience of true collaboration.

    Am I grateful to DAH for his mentoring and to this community for its support and feedback? Oh my god, am I grateful!!! If someone had told me when I found Road Trips a year ago that it would have come to this, I would have said they were crazy. So for all of you out there who feel less than confident about yourselves as photographers, I say just keep shooting, keep sharing and see where it takes you. As David always says, it’s all in the DOING! And I add, all in “happening upon” DAH and Road Trips-turned-Burn. This man and this community give you the wings to soar…


  167. DAH

    thanks – will make sure skype is on over the weekend.. on now.
    finished teaching for the easter holidays this week and been pretty fried /family loved up for the past week..
    back once again :ø)

    bodo, vivek, joe – thanks for the emails.. will reply soon as i have this corn-pipe cleaned out..

    om shanti

  168. DAH, “a “free for all” edit on line leads us to…what?? what would you expect would be the upshot of it all??? are you looking for a group edit?? “.

    I agree that it may well end up as a free for all and that a personal edit is always better for a student.

    I was not so much interested in the choices people would make but WHY they made them e.g. “Drop 14 because you have already made this point with 10” – that sort of thing. The thought process behind the decisions.

    My intention is to help photographers here get into the mindset of a photo editor; to see how he / she picks certain photographs over others and why.

    Perhaps the proposal is not such a good idea as it would certainly cause disagreement and it would certainly be unfair to any Burn contributor to see their hard work torn apart (you can use mine, I don’t care) but it could be the basis for something similar.

    If you could persuade a well-known (or annonymous) photographer friend to show a “rough-cut” of work that was shown to a photo editor for editing down to an agreed number of photos, and let us loose to pick our own selects it could be useful. Then get the photographer and editor to shown their selects and WHY.

    The purpose would be to educate the audience here on Burn about the editing process.

    The subject is obviously important to you but you cannot educate everyone in person. If someone put a book together on the subject, I’d buy it.



  169. SIDNEY…

    i am still heading for the west coast and with Seattle in the mix..i just won’t be there this week…i will call you or write you before heading out….i am scrambling with my schedule now…do not worry, we will meet soonest…

    MIKE R…

    i know exactly what you want….and it is one of the things i work on so hard with photographers…and i love doing it…surely, it is the MOST valuable of experiences…i am just trying so hard to figure out how to do it online..since i wrote you my last message, i was on Skype with Bodo and we were doing exactly that….he and i will meet online tomorrow for more of the same…but, again, what he and i did in about 20 minutes with live chat, would have taken forever in a back and forth here…

    since you are so interested, i will do all i can to give you this experience….and i will continue to think of ways to make it valuable for the readers here as well…do you have right now work that could use some help??


    i am going to try you again in the morning….


    same for you…tomorrow morning if possible….it is the most beautiful spring day…i just cannot be at the computer today…i am sure you understand….

    cheers, david

  170. PATRICIA…

    ours has been absolutely the very best collaboration…starting here and meeting “live” three times i believe…you have also “taken the bull by the horns” and made sure you received the personal did that by staying very politely and respectfully “on my case”….you took advantage of every opportunity…that is what it takes….you have what it takes….and when your book comes out i will be at least as proud as you….

    hugs, love, cheers, david

  171. DAH …
    enjoy the day … !!! Hope it is as amazing there as it is here.

    And please do the other edit’s first. I am a little stuck right now for meaning as well as for the postcard project. My contact person for meaning is on a 3 week holiday and I have to await her return. Later, when everybody at that place know me, it will be possible for me to proceed without her. At the moment the whole connection is still fragile and I should not force it.

    I have the next meeting for the postcard project next week.
    Using the time to translate the texts and prepare for the soldier’s variant – yeah, I am on it! :))

    So under the circumstances I guess we’d be through an edit quite fast. I did a final edit from my work so far already and would be very curious if you’d come to the same results as I did.

    As soon as you know when you’ll have time tomorrow or … , just write me a short email so I’ll be home. Guess that would be easiest. It is paradise outside and I have this little dog with big bright children’s eyes whom I just cannot deny this beautiful springdays :)

    Looking forward to hearing from you!


  172. ALL!

    I wanted to share with you my first experience with DAH on the editing process…

    Initially when we first communicated on Skype about a week back, he asked me what I had planned to work on. After being informed about the subject-matter of my project, he gave me some definite and concrete suggestions on how to proceed with it. I have no clue how he did it – but he on his own answered the questions that I wanted to ask yet was quite nervous to ask because I thought they were so basic and stupid! Cool! May be because he is a teacher also and he knows what goes through a student’s mind under these circumstances. At this point, I would love to share some of the things that he shared with me so that all those guys who are trying to learn could find something helpful from this. He had correctly analyzed my approach towards photography and he said would like to see me add (not subtract) from where I was. He suggested that instead of just shooting the subject straight up and capturing the “drama” that was right in front of me, to try being a little less self conscious of “good pictures” per se and to add an element of what it really “feels like” to be there…He also asked me to think about the ‘symbols’ that represent the subject matter of my essay and to save them on my emotional hard drive (now who says David is not technically sound on computers!!!) ;-) Anyway, jokes apart, this definitely has helped me a lot to give some shape to my ultimate goal with my essay.

    However, before meeting him on Skype about a week back, I had already worked for a few days on my essay on my own and took all sorts of photographs which took my fancy. I asked him if he wanted to see some of the photos that I had already taken so that he could have an idea about my essay and how I was progressing. He said that he preferred to talk with photos on board! Accordingly, I selected some of the initial photos and uploaded them on photoshelter and also on website (for bigger size viewing).

    Today, I met David on Skype for the second time and I gave him the link to my photos and he went through them and he said he liked many (WOW!…My mother asked me why I was so excited!). He selected some of them initially…tighter edit will obviously be later.
    The discussions with him and his selections have helped me to understand the ideas that he shared with me on the first day and I think each of these edit processes will enormously help me in the long run in understanding how these things are done. Yes, I am learning a lot and enjoying the process too.

    I also shared my photos with David Bowen, Lassal and Jonathan on photoshelter. All of them have very kindly gone through the photos and have given me many important and helpful ideas to ponder over in the coming months.

    My heartfelt thanks to all of you, my friends for making it such a wonderful wonderful experience! I really appreciate your kindness.


  173. @ DAH and ALL
    Just reading as I take a break from some much-needed yard work….and as I listen and think how helpful it would be to be a “fly on the wall” and watch an edit in progress, to get into the mind and spirit as it happens…a thought occurs to me…

    You’ve been using skype to chat as you edit…and you got a significant amount done in 20 minutes….would it be possible to put up in an area the original “starting point” of the edit, and then the transcript of the chat (skype allows you to capture and save what is typed in chat)…

    This is, of course, if you are using the “chat” function of skype and not voice…obviously for voice, it wouldn’t work….

    Anyway…just wanted to throw that out.

    Yes…remnants of the poetic influence brought by luminated company and later fizzy-champagne words remained even for me yesterday after my daily toils…was editing and listening and feeling all goodwill..

    happy feelings bursting forth like the flowers in my yard simply from being noted and included…words can be music, and music can be soul….a sticky note for you, stuck to the mirror up by the white bottle and kat’s wad o’gum…

    …sdrow yenoh rouy htiw em dehcuot ev’uoy

    beuatiful light to you and to all…

  174. Civilian, I have no book in the works but I have many ideas. If ever the twain shall meet, you will be the first to know, or you would be if I knew who you were. I’ll send up a bat signal shaped like a flying saucer.

  175. A civilian-mass audience

    When Times and timing is right we will meet (pretty soon)

    When I am talking about your house in Greece and keys I mean it, I really DO.

    I talk the talk but I walk the walk.

    SEE, I am not a philosopher I am a REAL CIVILIAN…

    and I walk the line too…
    LOVE YOU TOM YOUNG… Not for Greece… I love you for your SPIRIT.

    YOUR key is ready !!

  176. DAH — Several weeks ago you published a photograph of mine, Self-Service, here on burn.

    I just read you are going to be in Seattle.

    It’s my hometown and, if possible, I would love to meet you in person and buy you a beer while you are here…

    All the best,


  177. BODO,

    Thanks for sharing your key take-out from your editing experience with David. I have not done this via SKYPE yet but editing with him is always a special process…. I look forward to see what comes out of it…


    Sent you a quick message with my contact info. I am just back in Cinci for a couple of weeks but will soon be back in Belgium so I hope we find a way of getting together sometimes….


    Looks like you might have a busy schedule editing in the coming days. Not sure if your schedule will allow us to connect or not but let me know if you find a break. I am around and available in the coming days as well.

    TO ALL-

    I just wanted to share with you all a photographer Joakim Eskildsen whose book “The Roma Journeys” I have purchased while I was in Belgium and I have been in real admiration of his work since. I am sharing the link for those of you who do not know his work already but the book is amazing and the photographs come through so much stronger in print. Great great book that I recommend to all.

    Looking forward to catch up with all of what has happened on BURN while I was out….



  178. DAH, ” i work on so hard with photographers…and i love doing it…surely, it is the MOST valuable of experiences…”

    I know that editing is a skill that most up-and-coming photographers will struggle with, simply because they have no experience of the procedure in “real world” situations. Many Photographers (capital “P”) find themselves isolated from like-minded souls who see them as something other than eccentric. Away from the city, it can be lonely.

    Thank you so much for your offer for a DAH editing experience. I’m up for it, although; due to my (slight) speech impediment / stutter I do find it difficult to initiate essays. I do seem to have my finger on the pulse of what’s current as what I consider a good candidate for an essay I consider relevant invariably turns up in magazines / newspapers some time later. I do have an essay, about ten years in the making and produced solely because I could just visit, and walk away. It is old work (ten years in the making) and, unless you can think of an outlet for it, I would rather that you use your time to mentor a younger version of myself. The vast majority of my comments here are meant to be of use to new blood.

    I would advise any new blood to look at the book “Things As They Are”, photojournalism; not always easy to view, but of great value in that it shows major essays as they originally appeared in magazines and newspapers. Most educational. What I would like to see here at Burn is not-so-much the published pages but more the cutting room floor, and WHY. Not-so-much for myself but for the young whipersnappers.

    My essay is at:

    My latest work is viewable by clicking on Mike R at the beginning of this post.

    With regard to editing; I remember you saying, David, that any nominee to Magnum would have their portfolio scrutinized but; more, their contact sheets.

    I’m up for showing contact sheets and selects. I’m sure that others will be similarly forthcoming.

    Best wishes,

    Mike. (U.K.)

  179. ERIC
    thanks! Yeah, I got it. Will write tomorrow …

    very interesting description. Thank you!
    I’ll be in Transilvania in May on a workshop with Antonin Kratochvil … That’s why I am trying to find out as much as possible right now. Your report really helped to fill in a little. Sorry if I urged you todo it even if you were not feeling like a reporter at the moment … I think we all know how good your descriptions are after the last loft workshop report you have done … So I would always ask you first :o)
    Thanks again.


  180. Hi everyone.

    Just a thought about editing. How many people print out a contact sheet of their digital images? I normally edit on the screen, but got to thinking about the parallel when editing words.

    When you write an article you always do your first few edits on screen until you think you’ve got it right. Then you print it out and edit it. It always amazes me how many changes (for the better) you make to the on screen edited version from the print-out.

    Is it a right brain, left brain thing? From now on I may try doing this with images. Sort out the dross onscreen, and then print a contact sheet of the remainder, just like the film days.

    I know David has said before that editing with actual prints is the best way to do a final edit, so maybe it is a similar principle?

    Also, as an aside; I’d be interested in hearing what people are using to record their interviews/sounds etc in the field. I still use a tape for interviews, but would love to hear what digital recorders you are using for field work.

    I was thinking that it would be a compromise between size, recording quality and reliability. I am planning some interviews where I need better quality, and easier archiving that digital should provide (multiple back up copies etc). Also I would like the sound quality to be good as some will be historical documents.

    Thank you.

  181. Kathleen Fonseca


    (Excerpted from an interview with Roberta Smith, N.Y. Times Senior Art Critic with Irving Sandler of Rail Magazine)

    Roberta Smith:

    “Artists explain their work in their work and yet they
    don’t own the meaning of their work.”

    “Looking at art is an activity with its own rewards. I spend a
    lot of time doing it, thinking about it. One of my functions is to
    help people understand more about their own faculties in that regard.
    The eye is always taking in a tremendous amount and you’re constantly
    judging what you’re seeing. The hard part is getting enough
    confidence to listen to yourself while accumulating enough
    experiences to better understand what your self is saying. Openness
    is the key, along with a certain disinterest in your own responses.
    Sometimes you’re going to be surprised and appalled by some of the
    stuff you like, but that’s the way it is.”

    “Even though the idea of originality has been dissected and
    pulverized by so-called postmodern artists, they are still expected
    do so in an original way. In the end, I think sincerity and integrity
    are the primary value in art, and these result from making something
    as good as you can make it so that it reflects your ideas, interests,
    and your passions as clearly as possible. That is a very tall order,
    but it’s more about drive than talent. If an artist can do this-in
    whatever medium-he or she can achieve some degree of originality.
    Whether it’s going to change the course of history is another
    question. On the other hand, we all look for things we haven’t seen
    before. You don’t want to listen to cover bands doing Beatles songs
    the rest of your life. You know that Arrested Development is a
    different kind of sitcom than anything that’s come before it.”

    “When you’re writing you have to suspend your
    awareness of the ramifications of what you’re writing. When you’re
    done, it starts to sink in… also have to write for yourself; you really
    have to dig in and get what it is you’re feeling about the work.
    Also, criticism isn’t a simple process of thumbs-up, thumbs-down. You
    write about what works and what doesn’t work. It is usually a matter
    of degrees.”

    “In other words, if I like this it has quality and therefore content, or the
    other way around. If I don’t, it has neither. And, yes, I certainly
    think you’re right-everyone’s idea of quality is what they like, even
    if they think they like it because it corroborates some theory and
    that makes them more right (morally, militantly, oppressively right)
    than the rest of us. Today we have plural qualities. Each of us is
    arguing for this or for that version, making whatever case we can
    and, more or less, people agree. But really the idea of quality in
    art is not something you can suspend. Where else in our lives do we
    do that-discount quality? We’re always looking for the best of
    everything-in a mate, in a place to live, in a job. All those choices
    are decisions in favor of quality. So why should art be different?”

    “I don’t think criticism is an academic discipline; it comes out of
    yourself. Some people can absorb all kinds of stuff and make it their
    own. Others are hobbled by it. Either way you have to find your own
    voice and you have to work mainly from your own reactions.”


  182. A civilian-mass audience

    Today kathleen AS Bobby

    Go Out and celebrate !!!

    Celebrate Life !

    Happy mass gatherings

  183. Kat, thank you for the excerpt from the interview with Roberta Smith. Outstanding! If she was speaking without notes; and I assume that she was, I am most impressed. Such insight and clarity of vision is rare.

    It should be writ large in every college of art and photography.

    Thanks again,


  184. A civilian-mass audience

    JARED finds HAIK
    HAIK finds Jared

    BOB drinks with Mike and Andrewb !!!!

    Paco de Lucia – Entre dos aguas (1976) full video

  185. Forgive me if not appropriate here but:
    As you know a place near Rome, a mediaval town, has been totally destroied.
    There are place like Scanno that was drawn by i.e. Giacomelli or Cartier Bresson that are lukily not destroyed in the ancient place. Strange but in some place the destruction was for the new building..
    But in L’Aqila, that doesn’t exhist anymore, as we use to know, there was the Rearview Mirror editorial office.
    Something not so far from Burn.
    Now they think about dedicating the number 1 to the earthquake so our friends ask if there are photographers that have been in Abruzzo in these days and can give them one or two picture can contact them in FB
    or to

    Talking about on line edit of course I think that the editing work is the most useful or constructive activity. I remember how was useful to asist to the Audrey or Charlie one made by our DAH in Perpignan.
    I agree that is …”the MOST valuable of experiences” and not only for the person concerned. On line it’s a little bit hard to figure but it should be also possible.

  186. A civilian-mass audience

    Dearest LAURA ,

    Are you Italian ?

    All these days ( you can check previous posts “on spring cleaning”) we are sending our good energy to our beloved Civilians in Italy.

    Una fatsa Una ratsa
    Una faccia Una razza (in Italian)

    Where are you ABELE QUARENGNA? Another Italian around…
    gli auguriamo la buona energia. Se avete bisogno di qualche cosa li ha lasciati sapere.

    Let us know if we can help in any way? I am just next door ,check on your left (GREECE). Already got some Italians over!

  187. CIVILIAN thanks! Here in Rome everything is OK! We are just trying to help a little little bit some friends and collegues of us living (or that use to live) there.

    Grazie per l’energia!!

  188. Kathleen Fonseca

    Mike R

    Thanks so much for reading these excerpts. Yes, i think Ms. Smith was spontaneously answering the interviewers questions. I didn’t want to post the entire interview because it was very long. I have read about her before and i really, REALLY respect her point of view. To me, she has the wisdom borne of practical experience, not years spent in academia. She has developed great experience and faith in her eye and her critical abilities that could only have come from many years on the job. One senses that and feels her heartfelt approach to art that nourishes her critical faculties. And this i just love! I read the whole interview slowly, with great care and took excerpts that really meant something to me as a Burn contributor who both shoots and writes, though arguably not well at either :)

    Best to you, Mike

  189. Kathleen Fonseca


    I’m going, i’m going..just checking one little time here and out the door..hehe..have great day in the land of feta cheese, olives and mousakka!


  190. A civilian-mass audience

    Yes,I totally feel you girl,

    We had so many Greek students at the University in L’Aqila…so sad…so sad…
    Stay strong ! Kisses from all the Civilians !

    Take care, be strong
    The eagle will fly again !!

    Thank YOU

  191. A civilian-mass audience

    TO ALL,

    Today I will drink whatever KATHLEEN FONSECA and SIDNEY ATKINS have??

    THE menu has:

    Grilled Photographers with green peppers, oregano,and garlic
    Roasted Civilians with grape leaves, tzatziki, and wheat breat !!!
    Joking … I hope…


  192. Kathleen Fonseca


    My heart breaks for the loss to Italy and to the world of this town so steeped in culture and history and the loss of life that all of us feel so helpless to bring back. I saw all the coffins lined up in the plaza with those of the children in the little white coffins set on top of their parents’. It was unspeakably sad. And on Good Friday as well. How powerful is that image? It will remain in my mind and heart forever.

    con mucha tristeza

  193. A civilian-mass audience

    Babie Katie,

    We are all “cannibals”

    Did you see MyG around. I hope she zzzz and where is Spacecowboy?

    We were telling you , he is soooo COOOOOLLL!!!

  194. Kathleen Fonseca

    Bob Black

    whoaaaa Patti Smith and Robert Frank..

    *stunned silence*..

    can one even imagine a more perfect corroboration? i mean we could, sure..but isn’t this matchmaking at its delightful best?



    nope, no Bodalicious Blond Poetesses bounding round Burn dispensing musical pearls of wisdom, no Space Cowboy dancin’ and prancin’ word rich comet trails of spatial prattle..and now….no ME because i have dinner with friends on the menu..

    Sidney has a key now too..what a philosophical conflagration there’s gonna be one day when we all show up at your house at once looking for keys :)


  195. A civilian-mass audience

    All show up at “our “house … I am starting to freak out…Already.brrrr

    HAHAHAH … I am waiting for this moment … I live for this moment…yeah right….

    Katie,maybe I will give you your keys and I will go as far as I can…

    CAUSE …WE are ALL coocoo… 99% wet their pants to come and corrobrate here…Me,You, Dyslexic!



  196. dinner with friends on the menu???

    What do you do to non-friends!!!!

    And in this one, one of my favorite lines, *ever*….

    “hey Jack, now for the tricky part…
    when you were the brightest star, who were the shadows?”

  197. Yesterday I received an email from our NZ mate Ross Nolly. In it he said his comments here on Burn apparently are being held back by the spam filter and posted days later, long after the topic he’s writing about had passed off the screen. I’m going to offer to be his go-between and hope that will work. We need Ross’ voice here. He has so much to contribute.

    Regarding Ross’ contributions, he also attached a .pdf file of a recent article he wrote/photographed for Australian Photography mag (Timor). I’m going to post the link here and see if it works. Our world needs more photogs like Ross Nolly; he is really making a difference.



  198. BODO,
    Thanks for sharing your DAH edits with us.
    If we can’t be there to see and hear, or do it all together online, this is the next best thing :))
    Some of what you reported is “sticking” to me. Things I’ve never heard David say before.
    Please keep writing about your experience!

  199. Eric, Cathy…

    Thanks for reading. I thought it would be helpful to many if they can follow the process from the beginning. I shall surely report from time to time on this as and when there is something interesting happening.

    Best Regards,


  200. panos skoulidas

    mr subhrajit basu…said:

    ” …He suggested that instead of just shooting the subject straight up and capturing the “drama” that was right in front of me, to try being a little less self conscious of “good pictures” per se and to add an element of what it really “feels like” to be there…”

    …… less self conscious……….of “good” pictures per se……..

    its so funny and unfair Subhrajit…!!!!!!???????????

    when i told you the exact same thing..( and also Kathleen.. if my stupid memory serves me well…)
    you reacted..! you hated me for that…!!!????????//
    i only seen that one posted postcard like, severely boring fish net, photo of yours published here by the way,,… that nat geo like… perfect good looking soul-less shot..and that was enough for you to be my sworn enemy .. and now…
    you just confirm my words…
    just because David agreed….!!!!!!!?

    …….and u also said:”…….”and to add an element of what it really “feels like” to be there…”……

    what did i say ????????
    same thing ….right??????????

    stop obsessing with “perfection” and mirror yourself..right?
    put some “soul” in your photos”… right???
    i see no difference from David’s suggestions.. do you?
    I know u “voted me off the island”… but think about it for a moment…think……….
    what did i say except from what u just admitted above?

    Put some soul in it , stop being so self conscious and stop being so picture perfect…………
    thats all..
    big hug!

  201. panos skoulidas

    …and Subhrajit..
    just for the history…
    im not pissed wth u or anything….
    but you’ve been in defense for no reason..
    No matter what the trolls ( and the ex-trolls here ) say…
    its all about you!
    and your photography… and your progress…
    really… hate me if you like.. but im (we are ) NOT HERE in BURN to lie
    and pat each other on the back…
    Being soooooooo self conscious about “perfection”,………. is an obstacle of the worst kind…..
    I also edited with DAH live……. and trust me…….
    He also made me threw some of my “too perfect” shots in the garbage…….
    Ask him!!!!!!!
    We are not here to teach photoshop classes… but to mirror our souls my friend!
    Mirror our souls…….
    everything else is a LIE…..
    What do you think?
    Huge hug…..

  202. panos skoulidas

    …….. all u need to do is dig deep and discover your innocence…… your “LOOSENESS”…..
    All that……..
    and thanks for sharing your DAH editing experience……..
    :) and i hope you wont keep on hating me for just being honest….
    peace out
    ( and….dont hate… we have enough trolls for that….)

  203. A civilian-mass audience

    BREATH everyone,

    “No one can lie, no one can hide anything, when he looks directly into someone’s eyes.”
    Paulo Coelho

    Too bad we can’t see your…Right Panos??

    “Where is the man who has the strength to be true, and to show himself as he is?”
    Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe

    Good Energia to ALL. We will need it…

  204. panos skoulidas

    ……. and CIVILIAN…
    MR. GOETHE..
    is ( as always ) right on the money……….
    say good morning to “mama” greece and tell “her” not to worry about
    the little greek “midgets” that trying to revive the civil war…
    it aint gonna happen.. no matter how hard they try……….
    we are programmed not to “harm” them..
    ( plus we already promised them peace and offered them olive trees and white flags..:)
    no no no…
    disappearing into the sheets…

  205. i see no difference from David’s suggestions.. do you?

    Except the differnce between suggesting and dismissing, damniNG, in short: saying DUH! instead of… DAH! :-)

  206. A civilian-mass audience

    Dearest Protagora,

    I am afraid that after your postings many would love to see you disappearing into the space:)))))
    indefinitely !!!

    Well, let’s get back to the usual Programming :

    Dearest BURN magazine,

    What is for the menu today? Easter Eggs??

  207. A civilian-mass audience

    Dearest Panos,

    Thanks for the inspiration:

    Like A Rolling Stone BOB DYLAN

    Once upon a time you dressed so fine
    You threw the bums a dime in your prime, didn’t you?
    People’d call, say, “Beware doll, you’re bound to fall”
    You thought they were all kiddin’ you
    You used to laugh about
    Everybody that was hangin’ out
    Now you don’t talk so loud
    Now you don’t seem so proud
    About having to be scrounging for your next meal.

    How does it feel
    How does it feel
    To be without a home
    Like a complete unknown
    Like a rolling stone?

    You’ve gone to the finest school all right, Miss Lonely
    But you know you only used to get juiced in it
    And nobody has ever taught you how to live on the street
    And now you find out you’re gonna have to get used to it
    You said you’d never compromise
    With the mystery tramp, but now you realize
    He’s not selling any alibis
    As you stare into the vacuum of his eyes
    And ask him do you want to make a deal?

    How does it feel
    How does it feel
    To be on your own
    With no direction home
    Like a complete unknown
    Like a rolling stone?

    You never turned around to see the frowns on the jugglers and the clowns
    When they all come down and did tricks for you
    You never understood that it ain’t no good
    You shouldn’t let other people get your kicks for you
    You used to ride on the chrome horse with your diplomat
    Who carried on his shoulder a Siamese cat
    Ain’t it hard when you discover that
    He really wasn’t where it’s at
    After he took from you everything he could steal.

    How does it feel
    How does it feel
    To be on your own
    With no direction home
    Like a complete unknown
    Like a rolling stone?

    Princess on the steeple and all the pretty people
    They’re drinkin’, thinkin’ that they got it made
    Exchanging all kinds of precious gifts and things
    But you’d better lift your diamond ring, you’d better pawn it babe
    You used to be so amused
    At Napoleon in rags and the language that he used
    Go to him now, he calls you, you can’t refuse
    When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose
    You’re invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal.

    How does it feel
    How does it feel
    To be on your own
    With no direction home
    Like a complete unknown
    Like a rolling stone?

  208. A civilian-mass audience

    TO ALL,

    many times I have problem with the links…
    The message I am getting is

    This video is not available in your country.

    Shall I move from here? Is anyone else receiving the same message?

    CIVILIANS of the world ,help!!!!
    I know that all PHILOPHOTOGRAPHERS are taking PHOTOS and they are making books, I hope so …!!!!

    THANK you in advance for your help

  209. A civilian-mass audience

    ONE LAST thing,

    and we move a lot, and we fart a lot, and we drink a lot, and we dance a lot, and we ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

    BUT WE love you ALL.

    ENOUGH .


  210. y’all,

    there is nothing wrong about being obssessed about perfection…
    after you’re there though
    there is nothing left to be done…

    soul is soul
    i would lean close and listen if my earrings and ear wont be snipped…

    everyone’s all right in the end.
    (hoping this monday wont hurt as bad)

  211. Is anybody going to Rencontres this year? It has a ridiculously amazing programme…

    Antoine d’Agata, Boris Mikhailov, Nan Goldin, Paulo Nozolino, Anders Petersen… woh, man! :oD I have absolutely no money to spare this year, but I’m thinking about selling my soul to pop by. Any bidders?

  212. civi,
    thanks for jingling the silver in this kitchen.
    been busy…
    curly badoing down the hill on the snowtube
    lookin for them gadamm easter eggs
    bunny left in the friggin snow


    you do not need a “go between” to talk to me…first, you can ask me right here…or , if you prefer you can always reach me: i recommend many workshops and programs that are not my own…i often tell photographers NOT to take my classes and suggest something more appropriate for them based on their goals and their portfolio…i can only do 4 or 5 one week workshops per year and since i usually stay in touch with most of my students “forever” if they so wish, that is all i can handle…

    in any case Laura, ask away….

    cheers, david

  214. ROSS…..ALL.

    there is nothing better than either small prints or contact sheets for editing as you so describe…photographs in their final form are to be “held”….touched….and i find the tactile nature of looking through contact sheets or moving around small prints to really be the “connection” between the making of the photograph in the first place and final result…there is no editing program available that allows the same kind of flexibility as sequencing pictures on a large table, floor, or wall…

    the very very BEST method for this is the MAGNETIC PAINT for a wall…five or six coats of magnetic paint on a wall, then painted over with your favorite color to match all the other walls in your home, provides the best “layout wall”…buy a box of magnets and edit away from 4″x6” prints…that way you are always looking at your work…a living “exhibition”….

    you eliminate having to turn on the computer to see your whole body of work…you can make sequence/editing changes while having your coffee and watching the birds in the trees outside your window……you “live” with your pictures….besides, for your guests who may stop in for a visit , you are giving them the best “show” of your life…you will like this “moving wall” so much that the final book you do may be a disappointment compared to the wall!!!!

    cheers, david

  215. JONI…

    i usually go and this sounds like a great year to be sure…Antoine and Anders are usually there every year anyway, but it will be nice to see their shows…are you in London?? if so, you are invited to join me at our Magnum fiesta the last thursday in June…four or five others from Burn who live in London are my guests…there you can meet Antoine even if you do not go to Arles…think of it..Magnum party , then on to Arles (or wait til next year and i will have a show, or both!!!)….

    cheers, david

  216. A civilian-mass audience

    Dearest MR. HARVEY,


    Amazing, Incredible, c’est magnifique, Unbelievable , Unconventional idea, extravagantza,
    καταπληκτικη ιδεα,驚かせること ,Überraschen,изумлять,stupore,el sorprender,惊奇.


  217. A civilian-mass audience


    you are all the above :))))
    I guess Baby Katie and Spacecowboy = ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZing

  218. Magnetic Paint!!!!! I had no idea this existed. Solves a big current issue for me, brilliant. Damn brilliant. The possibilities!!! Thank you!

  219. so, now we have not one but TWO Greeks hijacking burn with their verbal diarrhea! Both for the same low price! LOL!!!

    now how statistically improbable is that? Out of the thousands of burn readers, all over the world?

    Of course maybe they can’t help it, like civilian/Zorba says it’s “in their blood”! Too bad that this ideology of the blood has played such a large part in many a recent (look at the Balkans in the 90s) and more distant ethnic cleansing… And many more to come, surely… lol…

    way to go! Burn is living more and more up to its title…

    Thank god for someone like Young Tom… Showing us that Greece can mean something other than loud and uncontrollable self-congratulatory ramblings…

  220. Young Werther, we’ve just been through a rough patch here on Burn and have, through hard work and good intentions, made our way to a place of open, respectful discussion. Now I ask, do you really think your comment adds to the tone of the place?


  221. A civilian-mass audience

    DEAREST Young Werther,

    Today is a beautiful day for BURN.
    TODAY, WE have ” ESCAPING HISTORY by Angela Bacon-Kidwell”.
    We CELEBRATE today… Please,today, we have traveling dreams in our screens !!!!
    YOU wrote:
    “way to go! Burn is living more and more up to its title…
    Thank god for someone like Young Tom… Showing us that Greece can mean something other than loud and uncontrollable self-congratulatory ramblings…” We thank MR. YOUNG !

    AND I have to THANK you personally for your critique .I don’t know about the other Greeks but you are so right…I should be carefull with my ” verbal diarrhea!”

    NOW,If you are a photographer,go out and make dreams come true, I am waiting for your book !!
    If you are civilian, there is nothing you can do :))))))))))
    “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
    George Santayana, The Life of Reason, Volume 1, 1905
    US (Spanish-born) philosopher (1863 – 1952)


    P.S You sound like a very “young ” soul but BURN IS THE PLACE TO BE !! Stick around, good energy.
    Sorry for the diarrhea. I will do my best !!

  222. A civilian-mass audience

    Dearest Patricia,

    By the way,is your book ready? Or shall I check your website?
    I have to go through the archives to find your essay !!!

  223. young werther,

    i dont think civilian has crossed any one or any lines.
    if not he has helped lighten up most moments here in BURN.
    i hope you alluding to ethnic cleansing will not become a topic…
    please leave civilian alone and go take pictures yess?

    if constipation becomes a lifelong struggle,
    diarrhea is welcome anyday. you should try it.

  224. A civilian-mass audience


    You should be sleeping by now,or no?
    Don’t scare our new BURNER away.

    CHECK this out: Constipated dyslexic CIVILIAN survives with severe BURNs to his brain !!!

    ANYWAY, back to the regular programme
    My Gracie, I was looking for you !!
    GO check the selected photos !!!! DREAMS ,mist and harmony …the rest is yours ( Poetic wise )


  225. Dear Young Werther,

    as someone who is also greek and who has recently been making a case in this forum for civilized discussion, I do not appreciate your hint(?) of ethnic stereotyping. Please don’t overgeneralize. It was your own comment that was incendiary. I am glad you at least enjoyed young tom’s greek photo.

  226. Kathleen Fonseca

    Patricia (and Gracie and Civilian the Flower Child)..

    sooooooo well said..and a good thing you said it or else i would have had to and i would have come in with guns blazing so yeah, you and Gracie and Civilian himself..what impeccable class you all showed to uh, he who i shall not even dignify with a name.

    you all make me wanna jump and sing..i exit smiling..

    have a great day or evening wherever you might be..



    My book does not yet exist in the physical sense, but is a promise I’m keeping to DAH and myself. Last week in NYC, David and I finalized the edit/sequencing/layout for my Blurb book (online self publisher), and now I need to finish writing my text. I plan to have the Blurb book in hand at Look3 in Charlottesville in June. Lots of book publishers attend and hopefully, with DAH’s help, I might be able to connect with one or two.

    So you don’t have to search the archives, my essay can be found at

    Thanks for asking…


  228. dimitri,

    thank you thank you.
    i do not have work to show. this is why i tell people:
    i cannot KMA DAH because i do not have any secondary gain in KMA-ing.
    young tom knows this: i want to have pictures that say what i want in my poems.
    i am endlessly jealous with young tom, angela, and more…
    because they know how to do it.
    i come to burn so i can write about your pictures.
    i go to your websites so i can write about your pictures.
    i go to civilian’s quotes of quotes so i can write about what these people write.
    i need to write as much as you need to take pictures.
    i dont know how to make my pictures say what i want to say.
    can you imagine, how bad that has been, and how bad it could be?
    this is what makes me sad. so sad.
    and this is what i mean about constipation… not funny. :(((

    what makes me happy: i write for you.

  229. patricia,
    i see you are done with your exhibition, how was it?
    i am sure now i will bother you soon.
    glad youre more active here. youre a voice we also need.
    even kat’s not afraid of you anymore.
    why should she be even??

  230. Gracie,
    your gracious reply lives up to your name! I can understand your frustration, but have you wondered: would WE be taking pictures if we could WRITE? :) Again, thank you!

  231. A Civilian- mass audience

    TO OUR PATRICIA = determination. THANK YOU…LooK 3:)
    Dale Carnegie:
    “Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all.”

    TO MY GRACIE= ( BURN’S MUSE) but I think that you are closer to Leontion
    oime, so many men , so little time:)))THANK YOU

    Carl Sandburg (1878-1967) American poet
    “Poetry is an echo, asking a shadow to dance.”

    TO KATHLEEN-KATIE =truth)THANK YOU .Kiss my mom and our Baby:)
    Miguel de Cervantes:
    “Truth indeed rather alleviates than hurts, and will always bear up against falsehood, as oil does above water.”

    TO THE ONE and only one ANTON,
    “We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.”

    We love you all. GOT TO ZZZZZZ

    P.S good luck to MR.Carlan Tapp and Mr,Anton.

  232. A Civilian- mass audience

    Before I ZZZZZZZZZ

    DIMITRI, you are so right…
    MY GRACIE is so GRACIOUS !!!

    Σου ευχομαι μεγαλες επιτυχιες στην φωτογραφικη σου πορεια !!!
    Καλη νυχτα και καλη Μεγαλη Εβδομαδα σε εσενα και στην οικογενια σου.

    Σου ευχομαι Καλο Πασχα Επισης και σε ολους τους Ελληνες !!

    I am just wishing to all the Greeks Happy Easter cause the greek Easter is coming this weekend!!
    Love to be Greek -American !!!!! HAPPY EASTER EGGS… where are you MIKE R.I love your stories. F.IT

  233. When we meet in person–as I’m sure we will–I think you’ll find that I’m just about the most non-threatening person on the planet, so I’m glad Kat isn’t afraid of me anymore ;=)

    Thanks for asking about my Active Elders exhibit, dear Gracie. The opening was three days before I took off for New York and it was quite a celebration. My women’s singing group performed. Well, it was really more like a sing-along because we gave everyone a song booklet so they could join in…which they did, with gusto! Many of the elders that I’d photographed were there, as well as people from many chapters of my life here in Detroit. I’m giving a gallery talk on April 24 and the show stays up until May 8. If you’re interested, you can see a tight edit of the Active Elders portfolio on my website (click on my name above).

    Yes, Gracie, please email me if I can be of any help companioning you on your photographic journey. I’m no expert but I certainly know what it’s like to start from scratch. Three years ago at this time I didn’t know an f/stop from an ISO…


  234. Civilian, thanks for your wishes, warm wishes to you too!

    (by the way I am sorry you choose to remain anonymous, I am so curious as to who you might be.)

    (παρότι συγκινήθηκα με τις ευχές σου στα ελληνικά, θα πρέπει να προσέξουμε να μην δίνουμε στόχο ώς έλληνες, είδες ήδη τι ειπώθηκε. Μην δώσουμε την εντύπωση ότι μονοπωλούμε τη συζήτηση και δεν ξέρουμε πού να βάλουμε φρένο).

    I apologize for my greek-language message to civilian to the rest of non-greek-reading burn participants.

  235. dimitri,

    as civilian said, oime so many men, so little time… hahahah hehehehe
    so listen, psssfftt…

    yknow when i am quiet mostly, but even at work, thoughts or words float in my head.
    i grab a fluffy pen and start writing. haha — you should see what my notebook looks like
    when i am in the car driving on the freeway… it looks like greek alphabet.
    i write about anything, whatever comes to mind and what is pressing and usually i am done by 2 minutes.
    i hardly go back and clean it up, and i will someday, but the raw writings make me think
    even more…

    what should i do when i want to take pictures… should i just not think about
    rules of thirds and how i should break them, right lens to use, overexposure, underexposure
    maybe i think too much when i photograph?

  236. see a photo, or what you think might be, take it.. three photos in quick burst to have choice..
    if i think anything it will be ´shapes, layers and moments´ mantra-like..
    and when planning a set up shot draw sketches.. where the lights need to be.. try to previsualize colours.. while still leaving a little to chance and magic.

    i have never taken a photo which has captured precisely my minds eye so completely that i can put the camera down and live content with the moment.. thank goodness.

    hello all.. been away smoking.. working.. smorking, i surpose.
    back refreshed.

  237. A civilian-mass audience

    Dearest Dimitri,ouzo on me BUT

    Regarding your greek comment:
    I am so sorry that you feel this way. But there is no way to accept your suggestion. I was raised to
    ” To be free …!!!” like a chicken:)))

    “Don’t walk in front of me, I may not follow; Don’t walk behind me, I may not lead; Walk beside me, and just be my friend.”
    Albert Camus (1913-1960) French novelist, essayist and dramatist.

    Now ,regarding my anonimity:

    AS Bob Dylan stated before :
    “But you just did what you’re supposed to do
    Sooner or later one of us must know”

    Trust me,My name will make no difference ,cause I am a REAL ,everyday CIVILIAN …making keys.

    P.S DAVIDB ,finally, we were looking for you. Kiss B and Tor Capa.Want ouzo goes well with smoking?

  238. Kathleen Fonseca

    exhausted, back broken, work weary, tired smile at Civilian..wonder what i do all this for. sucks. i just don´t know..g´night, you and g´night Gracie and fading..over n´out..



  239. A civilian-mass audience

    TO ALL,

    “To think is easy. To act is hard. But the hardest thing in the world is to act in accordance with your thinking.”

    KATIE the above quote is SO you !!You are my strength… I own you.
    and My Gracie you are my muse…0))

    Now ZZZZ and I have to step out for a while… But I will watching you and of course
    I will be back…Yikes ,I know…:)))


    like as DoAsHarvey

  240. Dear civilian, fair enough – but please know I meant my suggestion in good faith! Hope I did not step on your toes. Please feel free to email me if you feel you would be open to lifting your anonymity privately. :)
    If ouzo is on you, raki is on me.

  241. civilian..
    ouzo is good, white russians are better :ø)
    kisses dispersed with style AND content.

    audrey – no idea.. does that mean you are shortlisted for the EPF? hope so..

  242. David b
    i’m going to be a Guest Editor for 100 eyes… like way behind, but i’m trying to put together the May edition with Andy…the oontent: a surprise….


  243. great bob – that´s brilliant.. i just received a mailshot about it this morning from andy – first i have heard of it and i´m going to start commenting to see if others follow suit.

  244. Kathleen Fonseca


    And that Camus quote is so appropriate to your participation here. When i think about you, there´s always a certain delight in not knowing you in a more specific way. You have this nebulous form that is undefined and that means fewer sharp edges for me to merge my spirit with when i am in your space. Gone are the assumptions (and therefore limits) of age, gender, profession, relative artistic abilities, physical appearance, status. By remaining free to ¨be¨ you free all of us from all the generalizations and assumptions that would limit our relationship with you. We can neither contain you nor categorize you. You are ¨Everyman–Everyfriend¨ And while in your presence, for the briefest time, we are neither contained nor categorized. By accepting you ¨as is¨ we are accepted by you ¨as is¨. In your presence here, and while you aren´t here but we know you will return, we are protected from the judgements of others. We are under your magnanimous wing, we have come in out of the rain..we know we have to go back out in it but for a time we can just relax. You are good. As i said in another part of Burn, you bring the best out in everybody. i wonder how you do that?

    Now, for me, back to my work and the deep well of sadness and pointlessness of my labors..but don´t say a word about that, it is what it is and someday i will be as free to just be as i feel when i am in Civilian space, place, time and frame of mind.

    Best to you by dearest Civilized One:


  245. Kathleen Fonseca


    ¨we are protected from the judgements of others¨

    On second thought, we are protected from something far more onorous; our own judgements.


  246. @DAH: I’ll let you know if I manage either Arles or London (I’ll remember the date). I have to make a calendar at some point, as that Tuesday I’m returning from Barcelona so I could make it, but I’m not sure if I’m hanging work here in Cardiff (I’m curating shows it seems), case in which I couldn’t! Takes me about three hours to magically appear in London Victoria, though, and could do it to return the day after.

  247. Audrey, I just looked this up last night..

    Il faut que tu utilise la meme image deux fois, un fois pour chaque par main mettre un demi et un demi ou tu veux, avec l’autre demi de chaque au dehors le box

    ou tu peux couper en avant l’image avec photoshop..

  248. This just in from SEAN..amazing!

    I have recently been awarded a travel grant from the Pulitzer Center On Crisis Reporting, which is currently allowing me to continue and extend my previous work on desertification in China.

    I shall be reporting for the Pulitzer Center on this subject for the next 5 weeks, having currently been working for one week in Inner Mongolia. The Pulitzer Center are hosting a blog for my 6-week trip across the width of China, with the first entry already entered. You can view it here:

    The main project page can be found here:

    Please check back to the blog from time to time, as I shall be updating it with images and text each week. Also, please feel free to pass these links onto anyone who you think may be interested in my work and that of the Pulitzer Center.

    Thanks and Best,


  249. BRAVO TO OUR VERY OWN SEAN!!! May your journey go well, and may your documenting this dire situation raise awareness worldwide of what we are doing to our planet and its people. I’ll be followng your blog every step of the way…


  250. DAH..
    great chat.. buzzing and motivated.. gonna lay on teh bed and cuddle my family..
    will write up a report for ALL over the next day or so..

    ANTON – good chatting.. more power to you and keep clicking.. moving and shaking..

    great news.. just great.. keep on..


  251. DAVID :)))

    check ur email…just replied :))…no worries amigo, the guest editorship is only for May…I’m here for u and Burn :))…and the other collaboration will be given to you before the week is up (it’s my fault it’s late…life ;) )…

    check your email :))


  252. David B, I’m not in a shortlisted for the EPF. I am trying to make a “portfolio-book”, to show my work and I do not manage to have an image in double page, what I like very much…

    thank you Erica, je vais essayer dès ce soir !

    Best, audrey

  253. katie-cakes,

    neither should you categorize yourself as tired
    for if work gets called work
    then it shouldn’t be

    hang on tight!!
    there always will manifest some odd reason
    for the madness we do

    (peace and strength, love as well
    but best of all, no frizzy hair!)

  254. Kathleen Fonseca



    Thank you..
    yeah, a ban on frizzy hair and work being called work..but for now, a rose by any other name is still a rose.

    be back soon as i can see clear, Gracie..thanks for the always caring words..


  255. I just went back into the archives to check something out. I had a feeling my one-year anniversary with this community was coming up. I was more intuitive than I realized. Today, April 14, is that day!

    What an amazing year this has been. I remember feeling so out of my depth here that I actually dropped out for a week at the start. Thank god, I came back. And now I’m one of the “old-timers.” How strange. I still feel like a beginner in many ways but I guess that is good. When I see much of the work here on Burn I am in awe…and I trust I always will be.

    My deep gratitude to all of you, my teachers and friends, and especially to David who has mentored me in amazing ways. Whatever happens from here on out will be in large part because of what I have received here.

    love & hugs to all

  256. PATRICIA…

    Happy Anniversary my dear friend….i can’t even remember when i started doing this, so i am quite amazed that you actually know the date when you first posted!!! you are a bright light for all of us even during some dark days…please know that we count on it….and please also know that we still have a lot of work to do before Falling Into Place sits on our respective coffee tables….there is no doubt in my mind that you are up to it….

    i look forward to our next rendezvous at Look3…..


    fantastic!! you have really really made me proud with your continued work on environmental issues in China…as our first EPF recipient , you have set the standard for motivated continuity on a long term project… have proven to all of us all year long that you were a great first choice for this stipend and you have done what a truly dedicated photographer should always do…you never let yourself down….


    congratulations on the Look3 show!! After the Storm rocks!!! now just get your self down here OBX so i can have a few folks over to celebrate your birthday…..cold beer in the box and, well, After the Storm rocks!!! oh yes, i planted some trees and some other plants i cannot remember the names of ….i think i like gardening …takes my mind off of paying my taxes and all the other stuff i need to have my mind on!!

    DAVID B…

    yes, great editing session with you this morning….great to SEE your family ..only wish i had made a screen shot with you and Tor Capa…there was a great moment when you were rubbing his little bald head that was just priceless…


    yes, we are a day behind, but calling you in the morning…..i was so so impressed with your progress on Bearers…..we have to cut it down, but you have so much to choose from…and your level of sophistication took a flying leap forward even on your first days of shooting….talk soonest…


    just saw your e-mail…yes yes , you MUST be my Editor at Large here on BURN…don’t make me jealous please….ok, must sleep now…will write you in the morning amigo…..


    i am addicted to Cheerios…..


    hey man, no more sleeping in the car!!!…congrats..thanks for the iPhone shot of your view from your new apartment….any space for guests on the floor???? i will bring my sleeping bag…..

    cheers, hugs, peace…david

  257. Don’t worry, David, I’m not counting my chickens before they hatch, as my southern Mom used to say! But the Blurb book is coming along nicely. Worked on it all day yesterday. Before any “coffee table book” appears, we’ve got to get someone in the publishing industry interested in my project. And in this economy, that may prove to be a real challenge. But who knows? Stranger things have happened. And if it does, I’m ready to work as hard as it takes!

    Now what’s this about Chris Bickford and Look3??? How did I miss this news? Someone, tell all…


  258. RAFAL…

    yes, BURN is slotted for a 15 minute “prime time” presentation at Look3 in the Paramount Theater…Mike Courvoisier and i must build this multi-media show in the coming weeks…as part of the show, the 2009 EPF recipient will also be announced….i am sure some of your essay will be integrated into this presentation…of course, we will publish it as a slide show here as well….yes, you should attend when you can…a long long trip for you, but i think well worth it….


    yes, the publishing industry is hurt by the global financial crises…but, it has not come to a grinding halt…good books are still being published…we just must make yours one of them….all who are interesting in traditional publishing now must seriously look at the marketplace and the audience they may have and also for potential pre-sales through specific markets or for institutional funding…this has always been an advantage, but is now more of a necessity…….however, just as traditional publishers suffer ,self published books are fast becoming “real books”…printed on demand and capturing a “real audience”….in addtion, i think we are going to set up a “store” here on BURN to market both prints and self published books from our readers….we would be flat out negligent not to provide this service to our readers here as our scope and influence grows by the day…..

    cheers, david

  259. DAH

    I can’t follow your schedule but if you think my burn piece would be bettered by putting your edit in to the mix and you have time, I of course welcome your input fully and gratefully, and we can talk whenever it works for you..I can also show you a piece I put together with audio, but you have the whole piece with all the images from the epf submission..or should I email it to you again along with the slideshow audio piece?

    thanks thanks

  260. David,

    My internet server was down till now. There was no way I could get connected and I just got connected. Let me know when you are online on Skype.

  261. Akaky:…..;)))))))…

    how about why would anyone take pics if they can snap words together?…..

    how about doing both… whiskey and wine, words and pics, meat out the head in different ways…at least for one…if i couldnt write, i’d give up picture taking…if i couldnt take pics, i’d give up writing….

    although, professionally speaking, i get more frustrated with photography….cause with words, i can live in my head, and rattle away….but, it’s easier to take pics than it is to carve out a good sentence….


  262. akaky,

    can you take pictures of your humor?
    AKAKY IRL i wonder what color or flavor that would be? hmmmm… SLURP!

    i wish i could do both really well, but that is a perfect world for me.
    endlessly envious of people who could.
    i write everyday… try to… very handy… even on freeway
    but i cannot go out and take pictures all the time… i wish i could.
    as it is, if perfection is achieved quite often, life would be soooo boring.

  263. ERICA…

    you can either put the work into Burn submissions or on Photoshelter and allow send me a note when you are ready…who could possibly figure out my schedule?? not i for sure….


    yes, that is the best address…..


    yes, i tried you twice this morning to no avail….now , i may have to wait until tomorrow morning….my creativity today is limited to steaming off wallpaper and putting in some plants….but it is now or never on these two things…let’s plan on tomorrow morning…ok by you??

  264. panos skoulidas

    Yes, do not forget the sleeping bag..;)
    I’m trying to fit a bed in there today..
    Maybe u get the bed I get the floor..:)
    Oh well.. Let’s flip a coin..!
    ( another moving day today )

  265. David,

    net server downs and power cuts are ways of life in my city, we just live with them… :( the loss was all mine. i told you that i will be there tomorrow but now i fear that with the luck that i have, any of the above might just happen again. but if everything is well, i shall surely be there tomorrow.


    i guess you are leaving big bear to meet dan today ?

    have a great time panos and give dan and jules mine n beates love… it´s been too long.
    really top people.. enjoy

    and.. congrats on teh flat.. feels strange, yeah? :ø)

    good snapper on the horizon.. hope to catch you on skype soon myself.


  267. ALL

    Today I’m wearing my “marketing” hat which doesn’t fit all that well because it’s been a good long while since I’ve worn it…but now’s the time!

    I’m planning to have a page or two in the front of my Blurb book in which I will print endorsements of my photo essay, “Falling Into Place.” So many of you wrote such wonderful comments about it when David published my essay here on Burn on January 1, 2009, that I’d love to use some of those quotes.

    My question is this: Does anyone object to my quoting them and printing their name in my Blurb book? If so, please email me and I’ll be sure not to use your quote or your name. My email addy is

    Thanks everyone!


  268. Gracie:

    i couldnt agree more…i was teasing Akaky ))….i need to do both (write and photograph) each day….though, simple $$ issues often prevent me from shooting (my wife and i still shoot with film) and often time and silence issues from writing….and i never care about perfection, none whatsoever…though im obsessive with both…..

    its my life’s ying and yang, at after the ying and yang of my wife and son…


  269. A civilian-mass audience

    Dearest KATIE,

    I am working hard. NOW your room has MAGNETIC paint !!!
    so we can put all your masterpieces !!!
    Baby Katie, I don’t know about your photo-abilities but I believe that YOU are AMAZING writer!!!
    You might have some connection with BOBBY ?? Ask our mom …you never know… write a book or something…
    Just a suggestion from a dyslexic Civilian. LOVE U !!
    The same suggestion goes for MY GRACIE !!! LOVE U much!!
    Yikes.. too much kissing today:)))

  270. A civilian-mass audience

    Dearest Do As Harvey,

    No words to express my …

    I can no other answer make, but, thanks, and thanks.
    – William Shakespeare


    Cheerios…your wish is granted !!!
    LOVE TO Socrates

  271. A civilian-mass audience


    “When you do something, you should burn yourself up completely, like a good bonfire, leaving no trace of yourself”

    Shunryu Suzuki quotes (Japanese Zen priest, ?-1971)

    PLEASE, let’s send good energy to our ANTON.

    ANTON,CAN you FEEL it ?

    ALL our LOVE to YOU !!!!!

  272. A civilian-mass audience

    TO ALL

    “Do not follow the ideas of others, but learn to listen to the voice within yourself. Your body and mind will become clear and you will realize the unity of all things.”

    Dogen quotes (Japanese Buddhist monk and philosopher 1200-1253)


  273. Kathleen Fonseca


    That quote really sums it all up.why oh why is it so hard to follow one’s voice? Is it because sometimes we whisper when we should shout? Stutter when we should enunciate? Breathe when we should speak? Question when we should know? Become speechless when we should be speech-full? Fall silent when we should take a stand? Generalize when we should specify? Moan when we should curse? Talk when we should sing? Snore when we should gasp? Cry when we should laugh?

    Civilian..i don’t write because i have nothing to say. My photos say everything i want to express, explain, show, tell. For better or for worse. I am just in a different era..which is so funny really because i began photography with a digital camera..but something keeps pulling me back in time..all i want to say is what is so dramatically real and pure to me. The human being, the face, the being of the human, the human of the being. i was made for another time.

    Magnetic paint..broad smile..i can ‘see’ it, Civilian, i really can. grand strokes of love and optimism. There’s a merengue playing on my ipod right now, for you! dancedanceCivilianDANCE!:

    Pintame (Elvis Crespo)

    Pinta, pinta
    pinta su carita
    sin esa carita
    hoy me muero yo
    Quiero su carita
    pintada en mi corazon
    y le dije al pintor
    que no se pueda borrar (bis)
    Pintame su nariz
    para respirar su aire
    pintame su boquita
    para yo poder besarle
    pintame sus ojitos
    para que me puedan mirar
    pintamela enterita
    que no se pueda borrar
    Quiero su carita
    pintada en mi corazon

  274. Kathleen Fonseca


    littleprettyone, the night-light’s on in Spring Cleaning for you so you don’t bang into DAH’s message board, or knock Patricia’s wonderful Blurb book off the table by accident or smack into David Bowen as he flies out the front door or step on Bob Black’s pen and skid right across the floor or tickle Erica’s funny bone and make her laugh or run straight into Bodo’s camera and ohmygod, last but not least, so you don’t tip over that stack of books Civilian left by the stairs..


  275. Dear All,

    Many many thanks for your congrats and good wishes for my trip. I am obviously delighted I have received another chance to continue my work on desertification. It all started here, or on Road Trips, so I am delighted I can share the continuation of the work with friends here.


    Thankyou for your words. I had just come back from ‘one of those days’ shooting when nothing was really working, but seeing what you said really picked me up. The trip is going well though and I’m going to have a serious number of pictures on completion. As you’ve always said, I’m thinking book, book, book. Will have to wait and see how this trip turns out, but maybe I can swing by NYC later on in the year for an edit and talk seriously about a book. Would appreciate your advice.

    Bestest to All,

  276. kitty cat,

    re: your rambles bout learning to listen to the voice within yourself…
    yes yes yes, go back in time
    to the time when you had too many kids or just one in a diaper screaming blood murder
    for nothing else except a toy on the floor… you did used to have
    ingrown volume adjusters in your ears, the one that seems to develop as a young mom
    and wilt when they turn 18??? yes?

    turn the noise off of fear, doubt, fatigue, selfconsciousness, work
    and turn it up to the music of what you hope for, and what you already are!!!
    dont need the ipod you have the gidget already.

    and haha nite lite!!! i was too busy tiptoeing around spring cleaning
    i didnt notice the magnetic wall… so i couldnt get to my computer
    as i slept two nights suspended among the pictures that are up!!
    what a mess!!! what great company!!

    yes this week a bonfire for me!!! where i shall leave no trace of myself…

  277. BODO…

    i have tried again this morning…too bad we cannot connect…in any case, i have looked at your link and the only thing i would tell you is to go in a bit closer on some of those lifting pictures…you still tend to want to give us “information”, when all you have to do at this point is just strong strong imagery …we do not need to “know” any more…the scene is now obvious… have “set the table” well….now, just give us the meal…..the meat…the sweat…the blood…the burden..the burden in the EYES, in the mind,….think muscle, hands, feet, mud, ..let us “meet” someone, not just “see” them…loosen your composititions….go crazy man….BECOME a bearer….like a method actor…become, become…..

    ok, will try again in the morning….

    cheers, david

  278. Kathleen Fonseca


    ¨Now, just give us the meal…..the meat…the sweat…the blood…the burden..the burden in the EYES, in the mind,….think muscle, hands, feet, mud, ..let us “meet” someone, not just “see” them…loosen your composititions….go crazy man….BECOME a bearer….like a method actor…become, become¨

    OHMYGODYES!!! Just for words and lessons like this is the reason i am here. Just one sentence from you or someone else inadvertantly posting one great truth in some casual way is the mining i do at Burn. I started to elaborate on the who and the what but no, i will leave it at that. Just to say that Joe´s comment under Anton´s first photo was another such moment that occurred for me within the last 24 hours. To both of you, thanks!


  279. A civilian-mass audience

    I can’t hold it anymore!

    Katie, this is the ONE for me,this is the reason I am here :

    Plato wrote:
    “i mean really dude, can’t you just sit by your phone waiting for my calls???”

    laugh loud:)))

    More magnetic paint…Running like Bob


  280. A civilian-mass audience

    Where is Mr. Jim Powers?
    Lot’s to talk about Anton’s thigh !!

    Where is Mr. Jan ?
    C’est toute ?

    Where is Katia, Katharina,Lassal, Ian, Abele,Haik, Ian, Sidney ,Reimar…
    Where is SPACECOWBOY …?

    Thank you DoAsHarvey

  281. A civilian-mass audience


    WE wish lifetime enjoyment!!!

    “You know you are getting old when the candles cost more than the cake.”

    “As you get older three things happen. The first is your memory goes, and I can’t remember the other two.”


  282. hi herve!

    happy hefty birthday!!!!

    “you know you’re getting older if you have to do 5 puffs to blow the candles out on your cake.”

    did you get any flowers for me?

  283. Happy birthday, dear Herve! Did you buy your bike in Paris? Will it come back to San Francisco with you or will it stay with your mum? But maybe I’m behind the times. Maybe you’re already back home. Where are you, dear Herve???


  284. A civilian-mass audience

    We celebrate birthdays, we celebrate death, we celebrate weddings,dreams,showers,journeys,emos, tumbleweeds,
    hotels,fishes, buceros bicornis,

    Katie wrote earlier : “Gracie..little pretty one” . So many … so little time !!!
    Can you write a poem for Burn , when you don’t zzz. Love you ,my G :)))

    You are definitely A PHOTOGRAPHER , cause You AIN’T a civilian babe,nope …!!
    I bet my magnetic paint , you ain’t a civilian.

    To our Patricia
    CONGRATULATIONS , The best …!

    TO Panos
    CONGRATULATIONS, Can I bring my sleeping bag too…!



  285. HAPPY BIRTHDAY to you Herve!
    Honestly, I always thought you are in your late 20ies… guess I missed something. Never mind. You are always as old as you feel and you look young, fesh and energetic!
    The picture of you and your bike remind me of my beloved biycle that took me all the way around Ireland and then on to the Mont Saint Michel in Normandy. On some other trips I rode my bike along Wooloomooloo bay in Sydney, Australia, up to One Tree Hill in Auckland and one of my most wonderful rides was cycling downhill from Lindis Pass on the south island of New Zealand and of course I made a dream come true, I cycled across the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco. A magic ride! A few years later my beloved bicycle got stolen in my back yard. I was very sad.
    So, Herve, take good care of your new companion and I hope you will have lots of fun with your two wheels and I hope this bicycle will get you safely to some wonderful places on this earth! And when you cycle across the Golden Gate Bridge, please think of me!

    yes, I am here. Just totally tired. All my bones ache. You see, my back yard is a little too big. I have this old water mill that needs some attention every once in a while. My idea is to use the water power and generate electric energy with the turbine in the future. To get a rough idea, take a look here:
    Last summer we fixed the damm and you see we get floodings every year… Water has power! It is such a priviledge to be able to be out working in nature. Right now I have a lady duck having her eggs and nest in my roses and flower bed and in the pond there are countless frog eggs – guess it will be a noisy summer with lots of quaks from all corners…
    But please, don’t worry, my first love is and will always be with the black box! Today I gave away several rolls of medium format film and some sheets of real 4×5 film to get developed! I feel a bit like a dinosaur, but I love it!
    More soon! I have some catching up to do. And yes, where is Jim Powers and our man in space?

  286. HERVE,

    Happy Birthday! Both you and the bicycle look great in the photo. My own bicycle (I don’t own a car) is quite similar to yours, just a little older (as I am, too). I have delightful memories of cycling in France (down in Berry and Tourraine) in the mid-90s.
    You are quite ‘well-preserved’ at 54. Many happy returns!

  287. Now I see what happens when I don’t read comments clearly here. There was my answer all along–a pic of Herve with his new bike in France. Gorgeous bike & fella. Enjoy!!!



    god damn, that’s some major cool digs you got there in France ;)))))))))…u look young as ever (any plans for the pink hotel??)…and i send u a email and i hope this year i can finally buy you some wine so we can have a real discussion in person: here is how it usually goes with me (ask Andrew B to verify):

    1) I give u a big hello hug
    2) we drink red wine
    3) we drink more red wine
    4) we talk alot about _____________ (fill in the blank)
    5) we sometimes argue about ___________ (fill in the blank)
    6) we drink more red wine
    7) i use paragraphs when i talk (unlike my Burn/Roadtrip/Lightstalkers/Magnum rants)
    *) we talk alot more
    9) we drink more red wine
    10) Bob starts to hug more than he talks/makes sense…
    11) we depart
    12) we hug more…

    cant wait for the day :)))

    happy brithday…and the black-magic black bike is AMAZING! :)))))…i want that too….(and the chateau ;)))..


  289. god damned Reimar!.:)))))

    …shit, i’ll help u build an addition…that’s one smokin’ place to live….can we move into your village…if y’all will take 2 poor artists/writer types with a big-hearted but rebelious 15 year old, we’re there!…

    great place :))))))


  290. Chris (Bickford),

    I am so happy for you to see your name among many prestigious photographers in Look3. I loved your surfing photographs from the minute you first showed these to me in New York and actually, your essay is one of the few that I regularly go back to, to see it again. It has this good vibe, great feeling about it.

    Congrats again!


  291. HERVE….

    i hope you spent your birthday in good company and in fine conversation….or alone in fine conversation…ever talk to yourself Herve??? i thought i saw you doing it once in Paris…maybe it was sometime right after the cops almost arrested you at the Magnum bash…well, no sense boring the readers here with THAT story….Happy Birthday mon ami

    cheers, david

  292. A Civilian- mass audience

    It’s a beautiful CIVILIZED day !!!

    I am so proud of YOU and I mean ALL of you like “the fast food workers ” on your screens.

    ANTON your key is ready …you can bring Soichiro too !!

    I got to go again fore some time but I am always here. KEEP IT UP,mother fathers:)))))))))))))

    P.S LOVE YOU ALL see ya soon
    REIMAR ,my man, you don’t need my key…Can I come over…I will be good I promise !!!
    Katie,my Gracie and yes, MR. Gordon too… keep the love-festing

    Do As Harvey

  293. Kathleen Fonseca


    Have a little pun in the sun

    Happy Birthday!

    best this year and all the years still comin´atcha!

  294. Kathleen Fonseca


    love fisting? eeks… festing, ahhh yes, big difference!


  295. A Civilian- mass audience


    thank you for being You. Smartas..ter !!
    I send good energy ( extra) because you are my strong chick !!!

    KATHLEEN FOSENCA I COUNT ON YOU and I mean it.Totally

    Besos,asbestos, burgers and mierdas. Viva Katie
    No need to reply

  296. A Civilian- mass audience

    MY apologies to the BURN audience again
    Dyslexic under pressure

    Kathleen Fonseca


  297. A Civilian- mass audience

    Dearest Young Tom,

    I have the same question !
    That’s why I don’t have issue MR.HARVEY a key for the Greek house yet…

    Panos got arrested, Herve almost … waiting for the story, My Anton now ???

    Belgium waffles and Beer to ALLLLL

  298. A civilian-mass audience

    Before I ZZZ

    I send good energy to Afganistan ( another earthquake). Michelle if you are still there hope you are O.K

    Bodo wish you good voting “mind”:))

    Thai people stay strong !!!

    DavidB kisses to Beate and to your “magic” TOR CAPA ! I saw your schedule I am waiting for mine to find out if you can come to Greece !!

    Bob Black
    Kisses to Marina and MY BOY DIMAS …!!


  299. Foxy Friday Fun

    I saw this today and it being friday i couldn’t resist sharing it.

    Maybe because i’m from NY, but moved to London years ago and actually was gobsmacked with some of these experiences in real life, honestly!

    Or mayby because it is just genius in it’s own right…

    But here you go… images here….

    yes, i’m sure you will think of someone else when you see it and her work with this concept is equally interesting, but this is really a project that needed to happen specifically for English cities; if you have ever been in an English city long enough this will hit a chord.

    Happy Friday :-)


  300. JOE…

    “gobsmacked” ????? i am just curious about one thing, after you moved to London from New York , how long did it take you to learn the language????

    CIVILIAN…YOUNG TOM (you have gone miraculously un-arrested during our two meeting points)

    am i to be blamed ?? i provide a venue, but am i to be responsible for all the actions that take place therein??? i know your answer, so i accept being denied the key….however, hope does spring eternal…

    cheers, david

  301. A civilian-mass audience

    Dearest Mr. Harvey,

    I had to come back for this:

    The secret to humor is surprise.

    Aristotle (384 BC-322 BC) Greek philosopher.

    You are lucky that Socrates does NOT read your posts…Please ,leave JOE alone …
    “i know…i to be blamed…i…i…” how long will it take you to learn the language????
    In addition…
    Your key is AWAITING MODERATION !!! ( we never deny in the Civilian Universe ):)))))))

    No Need to Reply.

  302. civilian mass goodness.

    yesyes.. we have flights booked, a flat near the sea.. fishing village near zadar, croatia.
    it may be difficult to make it to greece with the family – of course you are welcome to our haven.. we´ll find a bed.. might be in serbia from 10th to 14th june.. planning.. planning.

    will stay in touch and if it is 2B we can all wear masks to respect anonymity.
    i´m going to wear a stegosaurus mask.
    i used to like velocerapters but have mellowed and put on a little weight since then.


  303. A civilian-mass audience


    I know it can be quite challenging to travel with precious TOR CAPA !!
    I have to find out about my weird schedule @#%%# !!! Who cares about my anonymity :))

    But I would insist that you have to come to your house…I am putting magnetic paint on the wall, nothing really fancy like Herve’s CHATEAU !!! or REIMAR”S mill !!!!
    Did you see that mill…Oh , my ,oime, oime !!!!

    Anyway, At least I have plenty of greek wine and mousaka and handmade pites and bread !!!
    REALLY got to go.
    LOVE AND KISSES TO ALL… I am so happy again…SMILE everyone just SMILE

  304. beautiful, but won´t that tear my fillings out?

    yes yes.. 6 months old and Tor Capa has been on 6 planes already.. he has friends around the world and you must become one.. he loves his philosophy, he does..

    ps – can i wear my stegosaurus mask anyway?

  305. ALL

    been jiggering my website about..
    still lots to do.. new stories.. new photos.. re-edits.. captions.. tidying.. new newness.. things..

    okay – i know the resolution on some of the photos is dodgy, and i will be uploading more suitable files an dat..


    first 3 people to spot either a typo or broken link, and email me about it, wins a signed 10 by 8 for their trouble.

    i know there is one schpelling mischtake at least..

  306. A civilian-mass audience


    YOU are officially a CIVILIAN OF THE WORLD !!!

    Your friend from Greece is waiting to see you !! I give you three more months so i can see you walking!!!
    Summertime first steps !!!!!
    Davidb I bet you are dyslexic toooo!!Kisses…
    Keep your masks for nighttime ( Beate you know what I mean )

    OUT of here !!!

  307. CIVILIAN…

    “leave Joe alone”..???…my oh my, i am the first to admit i do not speak English English..i speak American English (so does Socrates)…and i simply have no idea what “gobsmacked” means…i guess i will have to wait for a few weeks when i will be in a London pub with Joe and maybe just maybe he will tell me….or, maybe you can enlighten???

    cheers, david

  308. DAH: As Lassal says, speechless.

    Your gob is your mouth so it’s like being hit in the mouth – unable to speak for surprise.

    When i used to work behind a bar in the North of England I would sometimes get asked for a “London” pint of beer i.e. no head (froth) on the beer, quite flat and full to the top of the glass. We Northerners prefer beer with a head. You may not get a full pint but it tastes better.

    Enjoy London!



    thank you….i am gobsmacked that “gobsmacked” means, well, gobsmacked…now entered into my mental hard drive forever…..i just can’t wait to use it!! but, i doubt it will fly down here where i am with the Carolina fishermen….they might say something like “i’m outta heart”…got that one???

    cheers, david

  310. MORNIN’ DAH……..

    Just want to make sure you saw my email with the 2 links to the project, one on Photoshelter and the other with rush at all, but I know how emails can go missing when you get so many.

    Finally!! I think we have a bit of Spring in NYC..

    thanks thanks

  311. David, it is true I have not been arrested either of the times we have met, “miraculously” as you say, and I find it quite amazing as well given your track record, but there haven’t been cops around either of those times either. There is still hope, I fear, and yes, of course it was your fault. Is it not always?

    Joe, that was too funny. Apparently it’s a wonderful way to meet girls too. I kept waiting for the self portrait of the photographer walking down the street with the stuffed fox under his arm at the end of the day.

  312. Kathleen Fonseca

    David B

    ¨beautiful, but won´t that tear my fillings out¨

    haha to you too! love when i wake up in the morning to everyone´s quips and friendly guys really make me laugh sometimes!

    ´ppreciate it!


  313. ok, a bit embarrassed now that i googled ‘gobsmacked’. in typical american fashion i’ve gone over-the-top a bit. So i guess i’ve not really picked up the local lingo David :-)

    actually britian is filled with words that seem harmless to an american, but have huge implications when used here in the U.K. In the states if someone doesn’t meet you as promised you might say out loud to them when you see them next ‘Thanks for Blowing me off Friday night’… i made the mistake of saying that to an equity manager on a busy trading floor my first year here and was abused for years for that; as was he actually.

    It works both ways luckily, i brought a british friend back to Rochester NY with me, we went straight to bar and as i was putting money in the jukebox i overheard him asking the bartender where he could score some fags. i didn’t have to over-hear what the bartender said back to him as it was loud enough for the entire bar to hear, starting with “W.T.F. did you…”

    i have a very good friend in the states named Randy, i don’t have the heart to invite him over here as i could endure no more than the first three introduction before i ran out of tears from laughing at the looks we would get. keeps things interesting.

    Glad you liked that set Young Tom :-) I just keep thinking about the fun of executing a project like that. I’m certain there would be loads of camera-shake from laughing at the looks.

  314. good mid-morning all….a beautiful day for Good Friday here in the bluegrass (yes, I’m not late with my calendar, just Eastern Orthodox. So Panos, Civillian, any other greek or eastern orthodox folks….we have a vigil to keep here, soon).

    @Herve: happy belated birthday! And a great self-present :)

    @Patricia: I was catching up on comments and you asked about Chris and LOOK3, you’ve probably figured out that Storm will be shown on the big screen Friday night…

    @all: nice to be back….so many things to see and read after just a short few days with little access! I am still struggling with how to keep this part of me around when I’m traveling with work and doing so many more “right-brain” things….had some of this same discussion with Bob and Mike in Toronto….sadly, last week I had no fellow burn-ers to meet up with to keep the fire more brightly stoked, although I did wander around the city one night playing flaneur and trying to capture my mood…

    @gracie, kat, and civilian: your words and quuotes inspire and inspired me….a few days of deep darkness in myself, wondering why I and how I and can I….do keep it up….

    @all again….good light today…and every day….


  315. My first words to a real American in America were “Excuse me do you know where I could get some fags?” He was a very nice police man who after a bit of explaining pointed me to the 7-11.

  316. A civilian-mass audience

    BURNIANS, photographers ,civilians of the world,

    Please, I want you to focus. I need all your good energy to be send through out the Universe…

    My apologies Mr. Harvey , if I may, I have nowhere to post this…but…

    If you are out there Mystery donors I have to thank you with ALL my heart. ”
    Genius without education is like silver in the mine.”
    Benjamin Franklin

    Mystery donors give over $45M to 9 universities

    Andrew B you just “Gob-smacked” me .Thank you , thank you ,KALO PASXA !!! You are soOOO Greek , I knew it.
    and I am waiting for you.

    KATIE , check this out : “i’m outta heart” !!! No comment :)))TODAY we smile…No sadness

    Do As Harvey,
    You are the man !!!!!!!

  317. panos skoulidas

    morning y’all…
    Still cleaning , packing,
    Unpacking …
    I live in the middle of a Salvadorian
    It feels like Salvador …
    I think I found a new project..
    Ok back to cleaning ..

  318. ACMA

    Panos got arrested, Herve almost … waiting for the story, My Anton now ???

    Indeed, there seems to be a pattern. Hopefully, I meet David and Panos next month in SF, and that should give us plenty of probabilities that 1) something will happen and 2) find out why it does happen… maybe DAH’s turn now, for crissakes!!! ;-)

    For my very own Magnum story last year, check that page (and check page #7 for links to videos of DAH dancoing the night away….):

    Thanks for the greetings to my B-day annoucement, all. David, we had a mid-size family gathering for the occasion last night. I love my family.

    Patricia, bike is for here. I have quite a nice one back in SF, should really take it out on the road again.

    Talking to myself… Hmmm, not as much as listening to myself, definitely!!! :-)

  319. HERVÉ …
    happy, happy, happy b’day!!
    Sorry I’m so late …
    This time it is me: running, running, running.
    A big b’day hug,

  320. when i hear the world, gobsmack, i alsways thing of these dudes….and a line from the Porn flick Caligula (the word is in both the flick and Vidal’s book, trust me ;))) )…but, im afraid if i link to the Caligula flick, David is gonna fire me as his Editor-at-Large, so ok, instead of Caligula, here’s Godsmack…

    i never liked them…but my dad did…


  321. joe – yer ´avin a bath, ain´t cha?
    1/2 inchin our rabbit… tsck..

    blowing me OUT joe.. please.. blowing me OUT… (letting me down)
    blowing me off has the meaning you think it has..

    right my shiners, grubs up and i´m off to nosh..
    be lucky you slaaaags

    i knew it was tripe.

  322. A great poet has died, leaped into the sky like Icarus and, sadly, was pitched-caught like a hard-spinning ball over the shoulder and into the glove of the fielder in left field, by the earth: a breaking…

    Deborah Digges, american poet, has died, by her own leaping.

    She was young (59), an extraordinary poet and writer, who pitched about the extraordinary loss of a loved one (her 3rd husband’s death to cancer, i believe)…and so, for her too, this day, i morn the loss….

    and share with this raggled skuttle house, 2 of her poems….in grief but also in celebration, that what we love best, shall linger, long-wide after we’ve been knocked by the bereft click….

    deborah digges (1950-2009)


    My mother always called it a nest,
    the multi-colored mass harvested

    from her six daughters’ brushes,
    and handed it to one of us

    after she had shaped it, as we sat in front
    of the fire drying our hair.

    She said some birds steal anything, a strand
    of spider’s web, or horse’s mane,

    the residue of sheep’s wool in the grasses
    near a fold

    where every summer of her girlhood
    hundreds nested.

    Since then I’ve seen it for myself, their genius—
    how they transform the useless.

    I’ve seen plastics stripped and whittled
    into a brilliant straw,

    and newspapers—the dates, the years—
    supporting the underweavings.

    As tonight in our bed by the window
    you brush my hair to help me sleep, and clean

    the brush as my mother did, offering
    the nest to the updraft.

    I’d like to think it will be lifted as far
    as the river, and catch in some white sycamore,

    or drift, too light to sink, into the shaded inlets,
    the bank-moss, where small fish, frogs, and insects

    lay their eggs.
    Would this constitute an afterlife?

    The story goes that sailors, moored for weeks
    off islands they called paradise,

    stood in the early sunlight
    cutting their hair. And the rare

    birds there, nameless, almost extinct,
    came down around them

    and cleaned the decks
    and disappeared into the trees above the sea.

    and from her extraordinary book, ‘Tapeze’…about her husband’s suit


    To the curator of the museum, to the exhibition of fathers,

    to the next room from this closet of trousers

    and trousers, full sail the walnut hangers of shirts,

    O the great ghost ships of his shoes.

    Through the racks and the riggings,

    belt buckles ringing and coins in coat pockets

    and moths that fly up from the black woolen remnants,

    his smell like a kiss blown through hallways of cedar,

    the shape of him locked in his burial clothes,

    his voice tucked deep in his name,

    his keys and the bells to his heart,

    I am passing his light blue seersucker suit

    with one grass-stained knee,

    and a white shirt, clean boxers, clean socks, a handkerchief.

  323. Kathleen Fonseca

    Andrew B

    Sounds like you had a couple days all “outta heart”. Yeah. Been to that place. This might sound terribly trite but i have been watching the hell out of Susan Boyle for the last two days, just clicking replay over and over again like every other one of millions of viewers. If that woman doesn’t give you a shot of why i how i and can i, well damned if i know what does. If you haven’t heard her, seen her, watched her, been moved and thrilled by her, then you are missing a gift from the cosmos to all of us beleagured, bedraggled and bedeviled souls down here just trying to survive some brutal times. Tonight i don’t think the salve that saves will come from me but it might come from a frumpy middle aged Scottish lady.

    And one-a-lil-thing more..that Civilian, Gracie and i have sent some good stuff your way is a huge honor to all of us. So here’s a little heart-on for you when you’re fresh out of the stuff..


  324. A civilian-mass audience

    Once I asked myself, when was I happy?
    I was looking at a February sky.
    When did the light hold me and I didn’t struggle?
    —Deborah Digges
    Bobby thanks. I think she is going to chase tumbleweeds with Andrew Wyeth !! Cool!

    For all the UFO’S and the Trolls ( I am one of YOU too) we need you here but, BUT,but, we have to find our uniqueness.
    “Envy is a symptom of lack of appreciation of our own uniqueness and self worth. Each of us has something to give that no one else has.”

    KATIE I got it” dudeICW! ickycreepyweird
    anon slime!”
    I am LAUGHING soooo much. thanks again , thanks.
    Wake up MY GRACIE, baby katie is dancing…

    “Too much “fake love” lately that makes u wanna puke..”
    PUKE my man, puke…it must be the chalupa that you ate last night. Stick to Anna’s tiropites and Frieda’s Mousaka:)
    THIS IS NOT A FAKE LOVE , DO YOU HEARRRRRRRRR MEEEEEEEEE :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

    THANK you Herve for the insight… I wish I can dance like PLATO.
    I WISH, I WISH , I CAN dance like Plato
    LET’S celebrate and collaborate !!

    Now I have to say a BIG THANK you to Mr. MIKE COURVOISIER !!!
    I am wearing a mask too and now I know that you know me 0);>.Lucky me.Now I can puff* my way out~~~~

    *Puff, light gust of wind

  325. Kathleen Fonseca

    oh yes, Civilan Anon Nickelodeon Slime Turd, that means you too, hahaha, are you real or are you memorex? hmmm..lemme think..what IS real? What IS illusion? i think i will ask your magnetic wall. i will throw something at it and see if it sticks. Ok, wall, here it comes, here comes a big old Civilian person..WHAM, SPLAT, CRASH, BANG (damn, we’re gonna need some of those superhero fast food guys to clean up Civilian’s house now)..ok, taking a peak..ohmygod, Civilian stuck! he’s REAL, no really..he’s REAL! OH JOY!! He’s not a DAH Construct!!! OH GLEE!!

    Oh now, what is this i see? Ok, wait, hold on, i see what happened now…*peeling you and the fifty keys ypu have in your back pocket off the wall*..

    Civilian *i whine*…you are still the great unknown! and i love YOU that way!

    besos muchos

  326. Kathleen Fonseca


    “turn the noise off of fear, doubt, fatigue, selfconsciousness, work
    and turn it up to the music of what you hope for, and what you already are!!!
    dont need the ipod you have the gidget already.”

    Hon’, you have no idea how much comfort i took from those words. I was too busy stressing to get ack in here to thank you but noise, wow, did YOU nail it! Horrible, hurtful, wretched, abusive noise. And as you, i’m using the word metaphorically. Thank you HailMaryFull of GRACE! You are truly bless’d..

    just me n’ my smiles..
    nada mas nada menos..


  327. Kathleen; “a very inspiring attitude” Thank you, but not really. Each year here in New Zealand our airline sponsors a flight to Disneyland for seriously ill children. When you see the footage of very young kids with various forms of cancer etc it puts things in perspective…

    Photographing your feelings etc can be cathartic too. I used to photograph nature only. If I was feeling grumpy, happy whatever I’d try and photograph it. It usually worked.

    I’m not a natural talker either, never want to bother others.

    I posted this here so as not to hijack Anton’s thread. :-))

  328. Kathleen Fonseca


    Yes, we were hijacking! guilty as charged! you see? You are also considerate and you are racking up some fine qualities here..i urge you to QUIT WHILE YOU’RE AHEAD! *wink*..but really Civilian’s home is a pretty comfy place..*looking around*…hope you don’t mind, i just let you in with my key. Make yourself at home, grab a bottle of ouzo down from the shelf, i don’t think he’d mind. He’s a gracious host that way. When you leave, just lock the door behind you and leave my key under the third geranium pot in the garden and um, do come don’t even have to talk. Just be.

    Nature is really wonderful to photograph. it more or less holds still and doesn’t complain or threaten to call the cops and never ever asks for a print. Yes, there is much solace of acceptance in nature.

    happy weekend

  329. Can i have the ratty looking old couch in the corner? You won’t know i’m here! Actually, that’s more true than you’d believe; my IP address gets blocked as spam, but am at the folks place getting spoiled with their broadband. I can only get real sloooooow dial-up where i live out in the country

    I got bored shooting nature and that’s why I started shooting documentary stories. Yet i still love Freeman Patterson’s words and images.

  330. Kathleen Fonseca

    Ross.. broadband?? Dear, Dear how DO you manage? It’s kinda funny actually, Mom and Dad have broadband and their hip photographer son is stuck with dial-up..teehee, now that is geriatric justice! Go Mom, Get your groove on, Dad! ok, anyway, sorry…well, we have to ask Civilian, i mean it’s his couch but i’m thinkin’ he’ll say yeah so ok, that couch is now Ross’s Couch. Raggedy afghan, cat hair, and all.

    Freeman Patterson? hey, thanks for reminder, i have four of his books and haven’t looked at ’em in a coon’s age. I still remember his 50 (50? 25? i forget which) step exercise..walk out the door, pick a direction, walk 50 steps and start shooting what you find. ‘cept my photos of a bald patch of grass didn’t look quite like his. That’s seriously when i learned the power of a frigging great lens. haha..those ae the humble secrets of success we only learn after our first 4000 photos or 4000 dollas whchever comes first. And hell, by then you’re hooked.

    Well, now i am seriously going to sleep..

    g’nite Ross, Civilian, Gracie and any eavesdropper hanging around..


  331. Kathleen;

    “their hip photographer son is stuck with dial-up..teehee, now that is geriatric justice!” Hip? I think not!!! when the kids i’ve been working with ask what i got up to when young i’ve gotta be truthful and tell them I was a very unconvincing rebel….

    As for geriatric justice, it get’s worse; I should’ve said they have wireless, high speed broadband!

    Have a good night

  332. A civilian-mass audience

    Dearest MR.ROSS NOLLY,

    Mohandas Ghandi
    “Be the change that you want to see in the world.”

    THANK YOU so much for being YOU.
    “Every child you encounter is a divine appointment.” You are a blessed man,Rossy…keep it up…

    Since we are ALL Civilians of this world we can sit anywhere…and since I am DAH’S construction we can talk about photography like there is NO tomorrow !!!! ( yeah..I wish…)Kisses to our mom and to your baby,Where is she? ok, ZZZZ now


    P.S My space?? LAUGHING OUT LOUD…
    TO ALL:

    The World Laughs with You

    Just as watching someone yawn can induce the behavior in yourself, recent evidence suggests that laughter is a social cue for mimicry. Hearing a laugh actually stimulates the brain region associated with facial movements. Mimicry plays an important role in social interaction. Cues like sneezing, laughing, crying and yawning may be ways of creating strong social bonds within a group.


  333. ERICA …
    St Lassal … yep. That system is having a somewhat high oppinion on me. And it is sticking to it too, meaning: it is rejecting my humble efforts to become a normal person again …
    Guess I’ll have to keep the halo for a while … although it itches a little and it is an absolute nuisance when you are trying to fall asleep at nights …

    running with Hunter into the rain …

  334. A civilian-mass audience


    with your beauty TRUST me you don’t need halo!!! The system is rejecting your efforts CAUSE you are NOT a Civilian !!


  335. Civilian;

    I had to laugh, the only other person who calls me Rossy is my best mate of 28 years. You know him too??? :-)) Who don’t you know?


  336. A civilian-mass audience

    I am impressed ,

    How can a man write that much in the morning ?
    What coffee does it drink?
    For sure he AIN’T a civilian. ( SEE, fast Food Heroes,Mr.Harvey’s post)

    ROSSY , you are not a Civilian neither … Is Jack your friend ?? I know Craig, Mark, Colin,Ryan too.

    When I laugh much I usually f@&^rt a lot .OUPS !!! Sorry mates !!!

  337. I know that it’s weekend but I’m trapped at home due to home improvements being made and I could do with some new photographs to enjoy. Please?

    The conversation here has turned rather non-photographic.



  338. A civilian-mass audience


    Your wish is granted. MORE PHOTOS please…
    I am always counting on you MIKE R !!!
    Are u putting up magnetic paint…TRY it !!

    LAUGHing !!

  339. Magnetic paint, Civilian? Let’s put it this way; I’m married.

    Besides, suppose you over-did it and, stepping too close to the wall, ended up trapped against it by your belt buckle! That would be a good contender for the Fire Brigade Hall of Fame (laughing).


  340. CIVILIAN…

    basically, i can only write in the morning..early..when i get out of bed at about 6am i am so so full of ideas….my morning coffee is my “energy time”…90% of my ideas are bad, but they come in the morning…after that i just wade through the day and at some point try to figure out how to pull off the 10% that just might have some merit……

    now!! spring at its very very best….cardinals sing….cool nights, fire in the fireplace, warm days bike riding and planting small junipers……

    ok, back to the coffee pot….i think i might have a good idea….

    cheers, david

  341. DAH and Anne, click on my name above: the first photograph shown is from my local beach. It depicts a low-lying dune; the composition of which was akin to icing sugar. The crust cracked like frozen snow as you walked upon it.

    Good light,


  342. A civilian-mass audience

    MIKE R,

    I just visualized what you wrote and I almost “Pipi”* myself :))
    Kisses to your wife…tell her that she is a lucky woman cause YOU are one of a hell storyteller…I am waiting for your book though!!

    Dearest MR.HARVEY,

    I can see you smiling … Spring is here…friends are coming over…sand in our toenails…Yioupi!


    *going to the bathroom

  343. A civilian-mass audience

    One last thing before I Puff* myself ,

    Dearest ANNNE HENNING,

    PLEASE, PLEASE, when you meet with Mr. Harvey can you teach him some dance moves please!!!
    He has to be prepared for the upcoming “dances”!!!!
    Just a suggestion…

    please keep LAUGHing

    *Puff, light gust of wind
    I WILL, yes I will be back….

  344. Mike R. i just sent you an email with my reaction to your Day Journal.
    I felt like there was a rope, i’m holding on and being pulled into your mystery. Felt good.

    And …Civilian-mass audience. Ha. David. Dancing. Actually he has his own confident, i don’t-give-a-damn-i’m-having-fun kind of rhythm. I think we danced once. i’m too wild for him. anne

  345. dear mike r,

    i woke up to your new day journal pic
    and your description of it above:
    ‘low lying dune, composition akin to icing sugar
    crust cracked like frozen snow when you walked upon it’

    and wrote this for you:
    (and kathie and civilian – kindred *grin*)

    today is a happy day

    for you have described
    my sweetest dreams
    of walking on sweet icing ice

    for offering the unselfish gift
    of the thought of it
    on my tongue besides

    (thanks, such a beautiful spring day — toodles!)

  346. Mike R, your New Day Journal is exquisite. Simple, refined, insightful and art-full in the best sense of the word. All about openinng our eyes to what is around us. Thank you for sharing the link…


  347. Gracie, Patricia, thank you so much.

    The footprints in the sand immediately reminded me of the David Lean film, Ryan’s Daughter – the scene where Rose (Sarah Miles) follows the footprints of local teacher Charles Shaughnessy (Robert Mitchum); putting her bare feet into the shoe-prints of Charles and dreaming of love. Great film, great cinematography.

    Best wishes,


  348. Mike
    I saw that film on the big screen when it came out (69 or 70) and have not seen it since, but it is one of those films that is burned into my memory. I remmember being bowled over by the sheer beauty of it.

  349. To all of my Greek and Orthodox friends here…


    And good light to all.

    Running to another city in a moment…more tonight I hope.


  350. panos Skoulidas ( protagoras )

    thank you Andrew..
    And ALL.. please don’t forget..
    the unstable the drug addicts..
    Viva Jesus..!
    Welcome back..
    We need guys like that..
    Death to all hypocrites…

  351. panos Skoulidas ( protagoras )

    Btw ,
    I wanna apologise to the last two essayees…
    No Internet so I haven’t seen those two essays yet..
    Iphone has no flash so I can’t see the slideshows..
    Almost done with the downtown LA pad so..
    We will be back in business soonest..

    Oh and about the latest revelations about
    Who was hiding behind masks ..
    Who was the nasty dirty ass TROLL ( fly on the wall )..!!!?
    You won’t believe your ears when I tell you..
    A hypocrite “friend” of mine that had the nerve to even
    Buy me a beer last year in Look3…
    If u wanna know his name..!!
    please email me below:

    And the Troll behind the Troll
    is…. tam taram tam tam tam…:……


    well, at least i did learn how to dance with a beer in my left hand and my camera in my right….when i am dancing while i am taking pictures (which i was doing in this Herve clip) i am a worse dancer than if i am just dancing…however, i did almost kill my girlfriend last year when i decided to do a Mexican twirl and my legs became entangled in hers and some said we flew about 15 feet before landing on and breaking a valuable vase in the house of our host…so, let’s just say i love to dance just like i love to play tennis….i have no awards at either enterprise…….but for heavens sake amigos please cut me some slack, i am NOT editing a dancing magazine!!!

    yes, Anne you are too wild for me!! but, i am learning learning…

    abrazos, david

  353. A Civilian- mass audience

    Dearest ANNE HENNING,

    You are too wild for me too!!! But YOUR name will be up with the other PHILOSOPHERS ( the soonest)
    YOU SAVED PLATO, again !!! Your key for your Greek house is READY !!!
    Love you.

  354. A Civilian- mass audience


    Here it comes :

    MR.HARVEY your KEY is READY !!!

    You have to thank , “for once “, ANNIE and your GIRLFRIEND for this…
    NIAHHHH, NOPE… I got to be true to myself ( right photographers ?)

    YOUR LAST POSTING DID IT….YOU DESERVE IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  355. A Civilian- mass audience


    we celebrate with you.

    IT’S your party and we love it !!!
    Thank you PAUL !!!!


  356. A Civilian- mass audience

    bestos, asbestos,

    I Will be back the soonest…


  357. A Civilian- mass audience

    Author J.G. Ballard dies aged 78

    “Any fool can write a novel but it takes real genius to sell it.”
    J. G. Ballard

    Viva J.G!!!

  358. Panos,

    fly was not a troll. He raised important issues. Your personal dislike for him doesnt make him a troll, and perhaps he got fed up with things over the course of the year.

  359. A Civilian- mass audience

    Dearest Rafal,

    Kisses to your family !!! Today we celebrate , yes, we celebrate British tea…tedious as tea:(

    Trolls, Ufo’s everyone is welcome here in the COWBOY’S SPACE.


  360. RAFAL…

    i agree…Fly was not a troll…Fly was a UFO….and i responded to Fly at great length as you may recall….Fly DID raise some important issues, which is why i took the time to write…but, still the ability online to to “mask” oneself does bring out imo some strange aspects of human nature…”two faced” is a non-professional, non-psychiatric term, but pretty much works out on the street to describe such a person….

    Fly was invited into my home and to my social gatherings.. Fly wrote private complimentary e-mails to the very person Fly questioned online….Fly could just as easily have gone identified and/or at least had the courtesy to write a private e-mail to me….i like Fly personally and Fly could have( as did many others) written me, called me, stopped by for coffee…

    Rafal, you often raise important issues and you and i have not always agreed, but we have had “straight up” discourse which i totally respect, trust, and appreciate…the issue Fly brought up was the nature of BURN comments and where they were going…by going “masked”, Fly became the very problem Fly was allegedly trying to “fix”…Fly wants civilized and intellectual discussion about photography…so do i.. but, i think the best way to do that is by example….if Fly wants to set up intellectual discussion about work, Fly should simply set up the discussion..

    now knowing who Fly “really is” makes the original context of the Fly comments quite clear to me….Fly took a lot of time to question one particular individual of whom Fly appears to be envious on some level (again, a non-professional opinion)….and this is the common thread i see on so much negativity on the net…

    envy is a killer…..

    Rafal, you write AND you work…whatever you SAY is backed up by what you are DOING….

    it is very difficult to look through the viewfinder at life and make worthwhile images or do anything honest while wearing a mask….as artists we always want to reveal an inner self that cannot be expressed through our everyday expression..that is why artists are artists…but “hiding” inside a painting , or a novel, or a photograph is quite different than “hiding” as a UFO in the context of a forum….

    am i being too tough on Fly?? am i just not up on the realities and the nature of discourse online??? maybe…your thoughts???

    cheers, david

  361. CIVILIAN…

    many thanks for the KEY…i am only sorry that i had to describe myself as a “bumbler” in order to get it….oh well, a key is a key is a key….besides, i could have really really told you how bad i actually am…i trip on sidewalk cracks for example….and it takes me some serious mental research to ever know the day of the week, the month, and yes even the year of my current existence…sorry…you want the key back???

    cheers, david

  362. MARCIN..

    no, forget it…not important at this point….my above diatribe was only intended for one person…

    how are you??? i have been missing you here…you are always a very pleasant person with whom to speak….and nobody describes things better than you…..

    i must say i am a little lost on what you are doing….and by the way, do you have a Skype account and a camera on or in your computer?? can’t we at least have a chat that way??? let me know..that would be fun…

    cheers, david

  363. David

    I am full of work now. New job. Many things to learn. I have my M6 all the time with me but no time to taking pictures. But it will change (I hope). I am working in studio a little, but I am not studio photographer so… nothing to show :). No time for real work, for real photography.
    I sand you my skype invitation.
    I will try get a camera.

    sorry, must run

  364. on the issue of FLY (this will be very quick)…

    just because He raised questions, doesn’t justify his malicious impersonation….the most discouraging thing about Fly was/is that he refused to CONFRONT the problems, the ideas, the photographs through honesty: he hid behind an anoymous name/face….

    for me, the quality i respect best about someone is their honesty, not their ‘playing both sides” or ‘2-faced’….ideas can be argued over and disagreed upon, but if we loose sight of our character, we’ve lost everything….it’s the frustration with online relationships or language, easily misconstrued…i havent always done my best to properly articulate my sentiments during my own diatribes, but one thing for sure, anyone who wishes, has the opportunity to meet me, talk to me, drink with me….I also met “Fly’ in New York, and respect that person’s ideas, but i just do not understand why the need to hide…it’s disarming, frankly….

    i’ll tell u a story. On lightstalkers, I once wrote Jonas B (in a moment of drunken reverlry and sadness (a photo friend had lost a job)) that i hated one of his posts…and Jonas B (a photographer whom I admire, respect and love as a photographer and as a human being) is such a great great guy, later, i realized the idiocy of my comment and ‘talked’ to Jonas directly….anyway, that’s the thing, if people just can be themselves and open and honest enough to speak their peace but not hide behind a veil of negativity or anonymity, it allows each of us to embrace both our errors and our reconciliations…

    the value of an idea, at least for me, and a point of view comes from the courage to be able to publically stand beside it…that is a point lost when someone wishes to criticize but through a veil of anonymity….the firmness of it’s righteousness is gone….

    ok, that’s it for me about fly…


  365. A civilian-mass audience

    Dearest MR.HARVEY,

    You have earned your key .You worked very hard !and what the heck … a key, is a key…
    Flies, birds,Chameleons take notes
    Today we set up such an intellectual discussion :)))) a key is a key and today is Monday…

    MR.HAD The key is yours, BUT, (as I said before),But with your last post I have to take back THE


    from now on : Don’t Do As Harvey…
    P.S Sorry… You want your thread back…???

    I might move to N.Carol…you got beautiful chicks there :))
    LOVE you Marcin
    NO NEED TO REPLY cause I ‘ll be back

  366. A civilian-mass audience

    Dearest Mr.Harvey,

    I don’t know you personally but from the comments of other Burnians I understand that you are one of the busiest person ( of course after myself and other Civilians) therefore:

    I would prefer, if it is possible not to waist your precious time to answer back to my postings.
    It is an honor for me as a Civilian but BURNIANS really NEED you.

    BURN is all about photography .
    BURN is not about dyslexic Civilians.
    BURN is about the visual language which the Universe lets use to celebrate our existence… and because BURN is your baby …I respect your “space” and I have to say

    THANK you Mr. Harvey
    and Thank you all the photographers and all the readers and the Burnians .

    DEAREST MR.HARVEY Burn really needs You…

  367. A civilian-mass audience

    OK, Before I go ,

    this message is For Mr. Bickford / Storm

    Your key is ready and can you please bring number #16 . I put magnetic paint and Aphrodite will look

    P.S don’t forget to Brush your teeth , everyone………..
    I’ll Be back

  368. Kathleen Fonseca

    Young Tom once said something about all the cool things that are available to us as the result of discourse here but only if we stay at the table. What he meant was that no matter what goes down, who provokes, who’s feathers get ruffled, who takes offense, who sulks, who taunts, who rants, who loses it, that it’s ok in the long run, long as we don’t leave and slam the door off its hinges. And he was so right. I think that also applies to putting on masks. Just as my Mom always told the boys to take their hats off when they came to the table, you have to take the mask off too. Or else you miss out on all the good things for yourself and you deprive the company of all the good that you are capable of contributing. Those of you who came to the table with a mask on from the get-go, Stupid, Civilian, Space Cowboy, well the intention was not to hide yourselves so you could hurt others, only to keep your real name under wraps. We got to know you in spite of the mask because you do not HIDE behind it. A big difference. But Fly became Fly out of cowardice showing a terrible weakness in his nature and speaking from a powerfully repressed and lonely place. And i think this is a place he knows very well. I saw his photos and from beginning to end i was moved by a chilling sense of alienation, repression and loneliness. He’s on the street but he’s not part of it at all. He shoots from behind an emotional and social wall that he’s incapable of crossing. Panos, being 180 degrees from Fly in just about every way would obviously become a target for Fly’s envy and resentment because Panos is living, doing, shooting, speaking exactly as Fly cannot, fearlessly and openly.

    Of course this is just my own take on this and i could be completely wrong but DAH, your discussion of Fly encouraged me to express what i observed in his work yesterday. I wish Fly would come back to the table and just be himself. I mean, who wants to be a fly? The bearer of disease and all that is reviled by humans for all of history?


  369. Kathleen Fonseca


    I put on Cure’s Fire in Cairo at 1:30 am and it blasted me practically into the next century, haha…will try again when i have the strength to weather the onslaught..i think, gosh, you see me as way stronger and fiery than i really am but what the hell do i know? I’m too busy putting out fires.

    be back soon, sweet-thang


  370. CIVILIAN…

    you are a breath of fresh air on BURN….you provide a certain levity which is always welcomed…photography is after all quite simply a reflection of life and i certainly do not get “tied up in knots” about either photography or life….the minute photography is not fun, is the minute i go do something else…so your ability to make all of us smile is no small contribution and it is most most welcomed here…you do not even need a key to my house because i rarely even lock the doors….so please come and visit…the birds are singing….

    cheers, david

  371. Kathleen Fonseca


    Oh Laura knows what you mean. She’s wise beyond her years. I never met her but know her from the company she keeps :))

    Yes, after this time here reading you and observing you, I would like to meet you too. You are such a good man, David. I respect YOU enormously.

    Have a great day by the sea.


  372. Where are all these “Fly” comments everyone is referring to? Was it all deleted? I’ve been in transit, driving San Diego to Santa Fe and seemed to have missed the joke entirely.

    Belated HAPPY BIRTHDAY! Nice bike. Don’t suppose that’s your house in the background? :)))
    Good to see you again.

  373. David, Bob,

    I was not aware of all the other stuff about Fly, so forgive me. I did think he brought up a lot of good points though, namely the need for more civil discourse even when disagreeing, trying to be less personally offensive and stick to the job of critiquing the various essays. I have no idea who fly even is or how he was unmasked, I suppose I missed all that stuff when it was discussed here.

  374. Hey all you in-the-know folks! It’s kinda fun to be outta the loop here, for I join Marcin, Cathy and Rafal in not knowing who the hell is this FLY who was buzzing around our heads a short while ago. What I DO catch is how betrayed those who knew him/her, drank with him/her, opened their doors to him/her now feel. It makes me think of something my dear Eddie always says when I complain about something nasty someone has done or said to me. His words are: “Just think of what it would be like to live INSIDE that person. How dark and painful a place it must be.” I also thought Fly had some important points to make back when we Burnians were in a stewpot of negativity and couldn’t seem to get out. At that time I was personally struggling with my own hurt feelings and had pulled back to protect my own rubbed-raw self, so I could relate to Fly’s postings. Of course now that all that angst is past, I see things differently. And I certainly see that Fly–a person whom apparently many of us know personally–was completely out of line by saying one thing in emails and in person and quite another as a UFO here on Burn. But, as Ed says, when I sit inside his/her “house,” I can feel the sadness annd loneliness there. Yes, much of it may be self-imposed, but nonetheless, this man/woman is suffering. May s/he find another way to be in the world, a way that will bring peace and feelings of self worth. I hope Fly will come back to us as him/herself. And I hope we Burnians will be willing to set aside our judgements and hurt feelings and give him/her another chance. We ALL deserve more than one or two or even three chances. I wouldn’t be here today if that were not true.

    Hugs to all

  375. A civilian-mass audience


    Breath of FRESH AIR ??? YES,cause… I just brushed my teeth …
    Ok , enough with the kiss and tell . I wish Jim and Panos and Fly and BobbyB and JonasB and Ken and Sidney will enlighten us…hihihiho.
    Cause We sound so tedious , Love you Pat
    and we sound so Love-festing, Love you Davidb
    KATIE …I love you too!!
    My Gracie…my muse,too many poems too little time…

    Mr.DAHH you just gobsmacked me :) LAURA, can you hear me… WE MUST MEEEEEEEEEEET

    Well, Back to the regular programming .

  376. I think it’s about time for yet another pointless screed, but I am getting the strange feeling that I have posted this here before. Deja vu is rearing its ugly heads once again, boys and girls

    “We stood on our back deck and watched as filthy refuse shot up in the air like Old Faithful, tampons and all…you’d have to be there to believe the smell.” She maintains the city denied initially the sewage was in evidence.”

    As you can tell from the passage from our local newspaper of record quoted above, not every day here in our happy little burg is one of completely unalloyed happiness, strange as that may seem to you. Yes, we have our bad days too, the same as everywhere else, and there are times when we want to throttle someone badly. We’re not always sure just who it is we want to throttle on those occasions, but almost anyone will do in a pinch, I suppose. The people in charge of keeping us from going for each other’s throats, our crack force of gendarmerie, are themselves much in the news these days, given their newsworthy habits of suing the city whenever they take a notion to and whacking people with their truncheons to give themselves something to do as they suppress the already nearly nonexistent crime rate.

    The police department’s most recent newsworthy whacking comes from an inspector in the city’s building department, who told the press that the police stopped him for going through a stop sign on a street that doesn’t have a stop sign on it and promptly punched him in the mouth when he pointed this out to the officer. The officer, of course, is now suing the city, since the building department doesn’t take kindly to wiseass cops assaulting their employees and immediately hit the cop in question with close to $50,000 in building code violations on his new house. The cop told the newspapers that he’d set his house on fire before he paid a nickel of those fines, which was simple bravado on his part; everyone here in our happy little burg knows that the whole town could burn down before the fire department shows up at a fire at a cop’s house, because that’s how much the two departments hate each other. It’s no wonder that the annual Fire—Police Department football game usually turns into a drunken brawl, complete with Glocks and high-pressure hoses used with equal abandon. Things are getting a little bit better, however; last year only 35 people went to the hospital, a vast improvement over the five dead and 79 wounded the year before.

    The people at the top of our uncivil services, the mayor and the city council, would prefer to have all city departments working together for the betterment of the citizenry, but frankly, they have problems of their own these days. As I have mentioned here before, our happy little burg is in a period of economic transition. Where once we were a center for manufacturing bricks, hats, and various other useful things, we are now a center for selling antiques and, increasingly these days, the arts, which may or may not be useful—it really depends on your point of view. Art galleries are popping up like so many mushrooms these days, which is not always a bad thing, I think, although it does lead to some odd signage combinations as you go down Main Street. Not every town in this our Great Republic can offer the casual stroller modern art, a Subway club sandwich, and hair extensions for the black and beautiful woman by simply turning a corner. The problem for the solons who govern us is that, while they intend to give it the old college try, it is not entirely possible for a small American city in the first decade of the twenty-first century to base its economy solely on selling off Grandma’s old furniture and art nobody who actually lives here understands. In order to pay for the excesses of our not so civil servants, and since a return to manufacturing is not possible unless we move the whole town and everyone in it to China, which most people hereabouts probably wouldn’t stand for; there is only so much of General Tso’s chicken you can eat in a given week before you want a hamburger; the city council must pull its collective hand out of the cookie jar just long enough for someone to put some cookies in.

    The council of peculation, which has absolutely nothing to do with academic criticism of the films of Gregory Peck or with the ecclesiastical council of Pecula, a synod of bishops, learned theologians, and leading Armenian ecdysiasts that met in the eponymous Anatolian pesthole in the sixth century to determine whether or not Christians could eat kosher hot dogs without committing a mortal sin (Yes, but only if they use ketchup or relish; mustard, whether yellow or spicy brown, is an abomination on the order of homosexuality, idolatry, or selling term life insurance to dyslexic Red Sox fans, such fandom in and of itself constituting a mortal sin) mulled the problem over, and if there is anything those guys are good at, it’s mulling; they live to mull and have even won mulling championships, no easy feat here in the Vampire State, where almost any elected official can mull the pants off the best mulling official from almost anywhere else without even breaking a sweat; and while they mulled, both years and gas passed three dollars a gallon and the son went down in the west and came up five years later in the advertising business.

    Finally, after a prolonged mull that caused an equally prolonged sense of ennui in laboratory rats and prevented a nasty outbreak of the plague in North Dakota, someone had a bright idea: mining. The city could sell the local mountain (yes, we have a mountain, which has the same name as the city) to a mining company, who would, in turn, tear the mountain down and sell the stone, resulting in jobs, taxes, and civic improvements for all the citizenry. The police would even be able to afford machine guns, the better to slaughter the fire department whenever the mood struck them. Of course, at the end of fifty to a hundred years, there wouldn’t be a mountain where the mountain now stands, but all such plans require some small measure of sacrifice and at the end of that time, the mining company could sell the plain where the mountain once was to a real estate developer; the money would still roll in hand over fist. As the genius who came up with this idea pronounced the benefits of his plan with a glee he didn’t even try to hide—there’s no doubt that visions of fresh graft danced in his head—one of his fellow council members patted him on the back, announced the idea excellent and well worth studying, and then walloped his distinguished colleague over the noggin with a two by four. Everyone in attendance knew that was coming; if I’d been a second faster, I could have gotten a good picture of the two by four breaking in half over the councilman’s uncommonly thick skull. The reason for this is fairly easy to grasp: even though our happy little burg bears the name of the mountain, the mountain is not physically within the city limits of our happy little burg. You’d think a city councilman would know something like that, wouldn’t you?

    Despair gripped the members of the city council, with the notable exception of the councilman for the third ward, who is still in the hospital with a concussion and a lump on his head the size of a fairly large cabbage, when fate, as it is wont to do, took a hand and changed forever the way things are done here, which is a terribly portentous way of saying that a sewer pipe broke, if you ask me. Like many places on the Eastern Seaboard, the municipal infrastructure tends to be a mix of various technologies, not all of them from the same century, and nowhere is this truer than in the city’s water department, which brings water down from the reservoir to the thirsty citizenry in pipes laid down when Eisenhower was President and removes the used water (and everything in said water) in pipes first laid down on the day after Lee surrendered to Grant at Appomattox Court House. As you might imagine, those pipes are more than a little rusty now and after the recent heavy rains, one such pipe, a well-known Confederate sympathizer from way back, finally gave up the gray ghost. It ruptured, big time.

    Now, as you know from reading the quote that begins this screed, the city initially denied there was anything wrong. Denial is the default position of any bureaucracy, since most bureaucrats regard appeals to objective reality as somewhat gauche, if not an actual threat to their jobs, an occupational trait they share with most philosophy and literature professors these days. However, every so often something happens that, even with the best will in the world, the bureaucracy cannot deny, and a sewer pipe spewing ordure and tampons high into the air would seem to be one of those events. And so, with heavy hearts, the water department roused itself from its institutional stupor and put on its hip high boots, and went forth to do battle with the busted pipe. No sooner had they arrived on site that they got a call from the mayor to turn around, go home, and do nothing with the pipe. Not needing any encouragement from the mayor to do what they do best, the water department decamped swiftly, leaving several shocked property owners in their noisome wake.

    And so it is, folks, that very soon, you will not have to go to Yellowstone National Park to see a geyser. No sir, they’re printing the tickets up now and the out of town developers are out looking for prime properties in the area for hotels and maybe even a casino, if they can convince the Iroquois to build one in this neck of the woods. Tampon and toilet paper manufacturers are already lining up for billboards coming in and going out of town. Yes, tourism is going to save our happy little burg. A million people or so go to see Old Faithful every year; if we get just part of that action, we will be sitting pretty for a good long time, I think. Old Faithful erupts every hour or so; Old whatever we’re going to call it will erupt all the time, just like Mount Kilauea. Every time someone flushes, they’ll be doing their part to improve the commonweal, and before you come to see our happy little burg’s newest attraction, I should tell you that, by order of the city council, Pepto-Bismol and Kaopectate are now officially controlled substances within the city limits and an upset stomach the sign of a true citizen who wants the best for his community. I thought you might to know that before you came up to take a look.

  377. A civilian-mass audience

    Love YOU So much AKAKY ,my love of my life BUT

    CAN SOMEONE TRANSLATE or take a picture of what is just posted in front of my “dyslexic EYES” ???

  378. akaky.. big ups. bigger ups. biggest ups.

    civilian.. love you too.

    put my back out putting baby down.. bridge has crashed and will not open.. 3 days of sunshine ended today with rain..
    and life is STILL too good to mention.

    although i just did.


    yes, as i wrote, Fly did bring up good points…and i responded with two or three long comments….so, i had no problem with the content, only the delivery….anyway, enough said..i too hope the unmasked Fly will return…


    ok, that does it…you MUST have your own column here….

    cheers, david

  380. OH MY GAWD…AKAKY!!!!! We all talk about our books here & our books there, but man, you are the one who should be publishing a book. Please please pretty please…


  381. As often, our host DAH is proving to be infinitely more gracious and levelheaded than some of the rest of us. I completely agree that duplicity and hypocrisy is to be unequivocally condemned. However, from some postings above I gather the impression that it is also implied that reserve of character is in itself a fatal psychological and moral flaw. “Fly” is accused not just for showing a different face in person and a different one under a mask (a duplicity that I, too, find distasteful and condemn), but of being introverted, repressed, lonely, etc., on the basis of his photographs, that apparently some here have seen. It is suggested that his alienation shows in his work, and that somehow that style of photography (and the presumably more introverted personality that goes with it) is aesthetically and morally inferior to that of someone like Panos. What about the sublime detachment of a style of photography such as that of HCB, then? And I may be mistaken, but from what I have read, HCB was also not the most outgoing or extroverted person.

    Please let’s follow our gracious host’s example, and condemn people for what are real moral missteps, not because their overall personality happens to be different from ours.

    By the way, I find it a little unfortunate that some of us here seem to share (and float around) some insider knowledge as to the real identity of “fly” – it kind of fosters an impression that there are “insiders” and “outsiders” among us. I think this forum will be the stronger and better the more democratic it is – and you know the saying about caesar’s wife.

  382. ps I am not implying above any comparison whatsoever between HCB and “Fly” in terms of photographic style or quality. I hope it is obvious that I was just making a point about a more detached style is not necessarily bad. I would be very curious to see Fly’s work, but I am refraining from emailing anyone to find out who he might be. I wish like David said above that Fly would choose to return on his own, unmasked, so then the “outsiders” among us can also get a glimpse of his work.

  383. Kathleen Fonseca


    Kripes, yet someone else who feels the need to talk to me in the third person. Ok, well, whatever about that. My reaction to the photos in question was real, strong, personal and instinctive. I see a LOT of street photography because it´s the genre i prefer. I make a point of consuming/shooting as much of it as i can. Photographers express their inner selves in their photographs. Is it a surprise that an instinctive person deeply involved in this genre could intuit those signals? I think not. I realize that this is somewhat one-sided since you are not privvy to the photographs in question but i assure you i was not reacting to Fly´s detached style but a real and pervasive sense of isolation and alienation that hit me like a punch when i looked at his photos. And if he is caught up in those feelings, well who here is his complete opposite? Panos. Do the math.

    Again, i am not condemning Fly. Far from it. I find him to be extremely articulate and intelligent and would hope he comes back to the Burn table without the mask. Those here most affected by his duplicity considered him their friend. There is real hurt and disappointment behind the scenes. And there´s only one way to fix that and only Fly can do the fixing. I hope he does.

    Best to you, Dimitri


  384. Having had the pleasure of meeting a couple of people from this forum, I’m glad someone’s unmasking trolls is all — even if it’s done privately. The coolest thing about this place (and any internet forum, for me), is — does it translate to the real world? This one does, and since I hope to meet more burn people — it’s good to know the two-faced ones are being called out on their shit. Cause really, who needs more shady people in their “real” lives.

    I haven’t been curious as to who the real “fly” is until Kat mentioned his photographs — I’m over that curiosity as well now. I just would’ve loved to see if I had the same reaction.

    It’s enough to know he/she’s been unmasked — I consider it a personality defect, but who doesn’t have those — no reason it should keep the real him/her away from burn… second chances, and thirds, like Patricia said.

    I’ve needed quite a few of those.

  385. Kathleen,

    thank you for taking the trouble to explain your rationale about what you had written earlier. (by the way my posting was certainly referring to your comments, but not exclusively.) I have not seen the pictures so I cannot have a personal opinion as to the sentiments they convey. I am guessing that even feelings as negative as alienation can be pictured more or less successfully, to make good art or not. That’s neither here nor there.

    And I understand what you mean about doing the math. However, I think it misses the important point of that discussion (a discussion the concession about which was that it was valuable for burn as a whole, I believe) to explain away and thus dismiss a well-argued and valid opinion as nothing more than a piece of neurotic acting out, motivated by personal enmity toward Panos. Whatever Fly’s motivations, the points he was raising (and he was not alone, as you remember) were, in my opinion, valid ones, to be taken seriously. David himself thought so. To say that Fly was just neurotic and motivated by envy or whatever seems to me to carry the danger of implying that his opinions were by definition worthless. I am not saying that that’s what you were implying; I am just saying that your (and some other people’s) comments run the risk of being misinterpreted that way.

    I can only agree with your opinion that now it’s up to Fly to do the fixing – as someone who was essentially agreeing with his point of view in that discussion, I would hope he does so, because as you said he is obviously articulate and intelligent and could make a positive contribution here.

    Best to you, again thanks for explaining your position more clearly.

  386. Kathleen Fonseca

    Hi again Dimitri

    Yes, i so agree and i didn´t mean to diminish the validity of his arguments. See this is the thing about Fly. The value of what he had to say was diminshed by him alone. It was wholly overcome by his approach. I hope he comes back in here and starts posting under his real name, if only to kick me in the ass for trying to psychoanalyze him..heh.


    re: second, third and fourth chances..

    wow, do i hear you!

    take care both!

  387. Of course it is always a much more compelling argument when one doesn’t hide, and the mistake was 100% fly’s that he felt he needed to hide his identity. I wonder why he did so, certainly his views did not warrant anonymity. He presented them in a well argued way, with out the sort of trolling animosity one usually gets from anonymous people. Then again, there are people here who also write under a “pen name” and aren’t raked over the coals for it….a civilian-mass-audience or Stupid Photographer, who are very valuable contributors. But still more or less anonymous. I think we are letting the messenger overshadow the message. Burn is a place with tons of potential and a wonderful place to view new work. However there is a tendency for many of the discussions to go from civil to not in no time. I think all Fly was saying is that we need to keep emotions in check, stop with the vitriol and personal attacks and perhaps stick to critiquing the work instead of running off on tangents as if this was still Road Trips…it isn’t. RT was a friendly (sometimes not), organic, lively place of exchange of ideas. RT was closed down by DAH who started Burn. Burn is supposed to be something more than RT was and I’m sure David has big hopes for Burn’s future. It is up to us not to drag Burn down but to elevate it and help DAH achieve what he set out to achieve. Did Fly go about it the wrong way? Sure. But that for me is besides the point. Its a distraction. A way to deflect the argument so it can be comfortably side-stepped and forgotten. That’s a mistake, too.

  388. A civilian-mass audience

    Civilian to ALL:

    I am a real everyday Civilian. I have a name ,a family, lot’s of friends and I came here with an “agenta”. After my first posting I realized that since I was so fortune to discover BURN it would be better to leave my “agenda” outside. That’s the truth…I have an agenta, I will always have one ,BUT

    ” Online, anyone can choose to be anyone, but even though that may seem as a way to escape from everyday life, most people represent themselves in a way that is rather similar to their real life identity.”

    AND In my real life Civilian is so ME and I am the Civilian. If I start posting with my real name you will see no difference…Yikes…

    “Anonymity is a double-edged sword when it comes to an online community. While anonymity may allow people to feel more free and disinhibited to discuss otherwise embarrassing or stigmatizing topics, it can also be a community’s biggest enemy. Anonymity allows people to hide behind their computers while saying whatever they want with little ramification. Psychologists know that online community is far more disinhibited than face-to-face communications.Pair that disinhibition with anonymity and you have a recipe for potential disaster.”

    “identity isn’t only about who you are, but also about who you aren’t.”

    AND thanks to ALL of YOU and thanks to BURN I think that We are writing History right NOW. AND maybe the kids of our kids will be studying all the behaviors and the psycho…analysis …of the online “lifes”…

    Well, I have no idea about Magnum, Bagnum or Natgeo or Fatgeo but the only thing I know NOW is that
    Mr. Harvey is one of a heck big BURNIAN with no key on his door…and as Anne said let’s start to do the DAH dancing
    “i don’t-give-a-damn-i’m-having-fun kind of rhythm. ”
    It’s our party and we love it.

    P.S I am making your keys so I guess I will see your freaking faces pretty soon!!! Katie AS A street fighter:)))))

    “identity isn’t only about who you are, but also about who you aren’t.”

  389. A civilian-mass audience

    Dearest TOMMY

    BUS TO the Civilian’s HOUSE !!!!!!!!!!!

    Brush your teeth after. Mr.HAD wants fresh air for his “home”…

  390. Kathleen Fonseca


    ¨He presented them in a well argued way, with out the sort of trolling animosity one usually gets from anonymous people¨


    ¨well-argued and valid opinion¨

    Rafal and Dimitri, with all respect, i think your opinion of Fly´s discourse is colored to a certain extent by your own opinions of Panos. Fly gave well-stated, organized and articulate arguments to support his point of view and that point of view was primarily to silence Panos. And he was not always calm and analytical about it. At one point he posted a poem about Panos that in its thoughtfully rhymed contempt beat anything i have seen recently for its cold-hearted viciousness. He drove poor DAH practically over the edge. You could almost hear David ready to break down. It broke my heart to read that thread again.

    I ask you both, how would YOU feel if someone you called friend as both Panos and David did resorted to this type of personal attack all the while supposedly acting out of the deepest concern and support for Burn´s success as a project?

    I don´t want to drag this out any more. I have already said way, way too much about it. So i will leave this with you to consider if your posts here are really just being colored by your own guilty pleasure in Fly´s attack? I´m not saying it is or isn´t. If the shoe fits wear it, if not, let´s leave this alone. k? Please?


  391. Rafal, I’m with you 100%.

    Dear compatriot Civilian, you write: “Online, anyone can choose to be anyone, but even though that may seem as a way to escape from everyday life, most people represent themselves in a way that is rather similar to their real life identity.” Totally agreed. But then especially for people who even behind the mask are themselves, the insistence on the mask becomes all the more puzzling. Just a thought. :)

  392. Kathleen Fonseca

    Young Tom



    Mutant Ninja, haven´t even read your whole post..kinda wrung out here..i´m hopping on Young Tom´s bus and taking it wherever it goes..all the way to the end of the line and if i´m very very lucky, it will be right to your house and gosh, could i ever use the peace and quiet…

    Katie writing from the front..

  393. panos Skoulidas ( protagoras )

    Ahhh Tom..
    U made me laugh…!!
    I read that too..
    Roadtrips CLOSED DOWN…
    Yep ( same bus different color )…

    Civilian, Stupid or even Akaky..
    Anonymous yes, double faced NO…
    they don’t come here with two personalities..
    ( maybe Akaly IRL… laughing… But that is advanced humor)
    Get it?

    Nothing more to add than Bob or DAH or Kathleen said..
    We should move on..
    I don’t want FLY to be crucified.. But how can anyone crucify a FLY???
    Palms not big enough…

    Fly was calling me names and the same time
    sending me friendly esteemed personal emails
    By his real name..
    See the difference?
    I don’t mind anonymity but I mind double faced..
    schizo personalities (.. Again all IRL’s excluded )

    But put it this way..
    Imagine if me(panos) is also AKAKY or the CIVILIAN..
    what would u think about me????

    and I do feel sorry for FLY’s one and only ally (ies)…
    Sorry … Shit happens..

    And HAIK
    You were just a prophet Nostradamus like when
    you you posted that trapped Fly in the BOX…
    and for the FLY’s allies sorry
    now you have to continue your
    WITCH HUNTING alone…
    Going to the bathroom..
    Need to puke…
    I’m not a “bug-exterminator ”
    after all…

    ( again I apologize to all latest essayees for not commenting..
    Still no Internet .. Just iPhone no “flash”, no slideshows..)

  394. Kathleen Fonseca

    To whom it may concern:

    goodnight, sleep tight, please only let the muse-bug bite..

    Gracie, you listening, you poetic muse bug?



  395. Kathleen, with all due respect, by attributing some kind of “guilty pleasure” to me or Rafal, you are engaging in exactly the same kind of dismissal of our opinions on the basis of some assumed hidden psychological issues. In this, I think you are letting your own feelings about Panos color your judgments. As far as I am concerned, the issue is not personalized, and does not have to do anything with Panos in particular. Were anyone else to start engaging in cruel and unprovoked attacks, I would speak up exactly the same.

    I totally hear you about the immense sense of betrayal people must have felt about the discrepancy between Fly’s behavior in person and his opinions posted under the pseudonym.

  396. A civilian-mass audience

    Dearest Dimmi,

    You are the funniest of all!!

    ok. If I tell you that my real name is Stavroula Eufstathiou .
    Tell me now …How puzzling can that be…

    TODAY, I wish ,I WISH I am AKAKY!!!!!

    Love you AAAAAAAALLLL.

    P.S . More photos please Burnians are bored !!!!!!!!!!!

  397. A civilian-mass audience


    You are SSSSO right!!!


    OK. SoRRY good ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ everyone

  398. hi guys …
    i started this huge discourse on entymology and my internet got zapped… must have been the …
    so im glad i lost that. the points i raised were already said by the time my nonphotographer day ended.

    terrible terribly tired…

    luvs to everyone.
    kathie… i have so many prompts from your discourse…
    verbal diarrhea again from civilian but… BUT its all about ME a burnian.
    and dimitri, i love dimitri.
    and akaky, i love akaky.
    and i love you all… (bfore this becomes a greek posting…)

    sending love is my secondary gain, like australia’s boomerang. comes back… always

  399. What Burn needs is to lose this daycare center for victims of arrested development. There is nothing professional about this nonsense thread. You folks need to get real lives and act like adults. If you must continue this drivel, David, bury this stuff on another web site with no connection to Burn magazine. It pulls it down without any redeeming purpose. You are not going to be taken seriously with this cesspool here for people to fall into.

    Geeze, unbelievable. This tripe is simply unbelievable on a supposedly serious website.

  400. JIM…

    welcome back, but what are you doing over here?? this Dialogue part of Burn is like a community bulletin board…away from the essays and singles section where the comments are going just fine and to the point……i do many things Jim that are just for “recreation” and i am a true prankster… work is the only thing that needs to be “taken seriously”….and i will stand by the work published these last months on Burn as well…..this “bulletin board” causes nobody any harm and most folks are just having fun….ever had any???

    cheers, david

  401. Kat —

    Sometimes 5th or 6th chances unfortunately. But things have to be done to get those chances. Starts with apologizing, coming out in the open — and from then on your actions have to be above the fray. I, too, remember “fly” not being the most civilized. He presented his arguments fine — but he also viciously attacked on a whim. He was no angel simply trying to help the forum…

    Now Jim Powers on the other hand….. :)

  402. David, this isn’t “away” from anything. It’s contains the most posts in the “Recent Comments” listing in the right side of the page. It’s linked from the home page of the website. And it’s total nonsense. It detracts from whatever good work is featured here.

  403. JIM…

    ok, let’s say you have a point…..what would YOU do about it??? (a) send everyone to the principals office??? (b) make them stay after school?? (c) ground them??? (d) close down all comments???

    i do have a recommendation for you….why not go back and look at all that you have missed???….i have missed you commenting and so have many others…you will notice that some of the names over here under Dialogue have left many meaningful serious comments under the essays and singles….you are just getting a bit of late night chat….

    c’mon Jim, smile….

    cheers, david

  404. Ahhh Tom..:))!!!!!
    U made me laugh…!!laugh..:))))
    I read that too..
    Roadtrips CLOSED DOWN…
    Yep ( same bus different color )…

    Civilian, Stoop or even Akaky..
    Anonymous yes, double faced NO…
    they don’t come here with two personalities..
    ( maybe Akaly IRL… laughing… But that is advanced humor)

    Get it?

    Nothing more to add than Bob or DAH or Kathleen said..
    We should move on..
    I don’t want FLY to be crucified.. But how can anyone crucify a FLY???
    Palms not big enough…

    Fly was calling me names and the same time
    sending me friendly esteemed personal emails
    By his real name..
    See the difference?
    I don’t mind anonymity but I mind double faced..
    schizo personalities (.. Again all IRL’s excluded )

    But put it this way..
    Imagine if me(panos) is also AKAKY or the CIVILIAN..
    what would u think about me????

    and I do feel sorry for FLY’s one and only ally (ies)…
    Sorry … Shit happens..

    And HAIK
    You were just a prophet Nostradamus like when
    you you posted that trapped Fly in the BOX…
    and for the FLY’s allies sorry
    now you have to continue your
    WITCH HUNTING alone…
    Going to the bathroom..
    Need to puke…
    I’m not a “bug-exterminator ”
    after all…

    ( again I apologize to all latest essayees for not commenting..
    Still no Internet .. Just iPhone no “flash”, no slideshows..)

    and kat thanks for seeing the truth..
    The 3 Stooges that hate me now it’s just 2..
    Envy envy and jealousy..

  405. Dear DAH, this is a personal appeal to you, on behalf not so much of myself, but of dialogue in this forum. Why does anyone have to be subjected to insults and epithets (“3 stooges”) just for expressing their points of view without insulting anyone? Here we go again. Some of us have been trying hard to not succumb to pressures to leave this forum and to make more and more positive and constructive contributions, but it is not pleasant to have insults hurled at oneself on an ongoing basis.

  406. Kathleeen,

    as I said, I missed a lot of what was posted here recently, so I never saw any poems. My own feelings for Panos, well, lets say I have been on the receiving end of many Panos attacks. But this goes beyond my own issues with Panos and myself, because Burn isn’t a bout Panos no matter how much he tries to steal the show. I think for all that can be leveled against Fly, the basic tenet of his argument holds fast. This is David’s house and are we doing enough to elevate it instead of bringing it down? Because let me tell you, when we start getting into these Panos vs whoever, whoever vs whoever, etc little wars it doesn’t elevate Burn to where Burn should be, and that’s as one of the premier photography “hubs” on the web.

    My own wish for Burn is that it be strictly about the work posted. Im bored of the wars. Im bored of the posturing and preening. Im bored of the cliques sticking up for this person or that. I get that some of us like each other but I think we are all adults. Im not going to fight a war on here and if I have before then its my own damn fault. I wish that Burn became more boring in a way, Im sure the fights and bickering is lively, but we need more analytical discussions about concepts and ideas. Not who said what to who and who knows whose real identity. We had a nice little discussion going about the Capa quote. I thought it could lead to something interesting, instead we have this, and Im sadly caught up in it as well. I must say, Kathleen, that it was MUCH more interesting to talk to you about that than this.

  407. panos skoulidas

    u need to shut up…
    The “not that secret police”
    R sending u to the Principal..

    Welcome back … Join the Stooges..
    They’re auditioning for a new LEAD SINGER..
    ok.. Stooges is not fair..
    Stooges had sense of humor..
    How about LED ZEPAGAIN..!
    soft, witchy, crying heavy metal..
    Someone is in love with me..
    Almost obssessed …:)
    And it ain’t the FLY-guy…
    Take a wild guess…

  408. David,

    there was a discussion going under Paul’s newest essay about what Capa meant by the quote “If your pictures aren’t good enough, you aren’t close enough” and specifically by “close”. Im sure you would know something since you have had 1st hand contact with his contemporaries but Im sure you also have your own opinions and insights. Check it out.

  409. Hmmm, I spent a decade with nearly no fun. It was concurrent with newspaper work. Coincidence?
    Damn, wrong bus again.

  410. panos skoulidas

    Hey Tom..
    You got out on time..
    You got out on time…
    ( a good friend reading the blog just text me
    Saying: “who needs TV? This is too effing good!!”)

  411. DMITRI…

    i just cannot find an epithet or insult hurled at you…where??


    well, controlling/moderating a conversation many hours retroactively is of course impossible…and definitely not what i want or intend to do with my life anyway…

    i spend hours of every day organizing the EPF finalists, trying to raise funds so that photographers may go out a make photographs, pour over all the submissions that come in and edit essays, work behind the scenes to mentor the photographers here who need and seek mentoring, am working hard to set up a fine BURN show for Look3 and other festivals, and have enjoyed so much meeting many of the forum readers here in person…

    however, i have shot many magazine stories, published a few books, hung a few exhibitions, created some special workshops, and generally have gone through my whole career minus “comments”….i do love quality dialogue and picking and choosing which friends to gather and discuss life and photography at my home or my home away from home has been a lifelong pleasure…i would not trade those great times for anything….many of you have been a part of this, so you know very well what i mean…and i plan to continue all of the above…

    i will say that the very best comments from both Road Trips and Burn constitute a true “body of work” in and of themselves and will surely become part of a book…and still, the best comments are quite profound and my hope is that a strong editing of the comments will be useful text should we publish a special print edition of BURN at the end of the year….since everyone knows this is the plan , i would have imagined everyone rising to the occasion and only writing something worthy since they know well it could end up in print…quite literally a piece of photographic history…

    i have many other ways to secure fine text and comments from individuals who are both fine photographers and have intelligent provocative things to say…i must put my time and efforts where they will do the most good…..moderating blog comments is not one of them…so, my feeling is this…either this forum polices itself pronto or we just cannot have a forum/blog …the comments should add, not subtract….dissent does not mean insults….the comments have nothing at all to do with the readership traffic of BURN unless everyone thinks people come to BURN just to read the comments….i am sure a small percentage do…but as i have mentioned before, “commenters” account for a very small percentage of the readership, so in seeking sponsorship for BURN which would give assignments to photographers and allow photographers to sell prints here, we may do well without Burn as a blog…

    think this over please….

    cheers, david

  412. A civilian-mass audience

    ENOUGH said,

    TODAY WE CELEBRATE, Today it’s a beautiful day, Today I have the honor to Welcome back :

    Mr. Jim Powers.

    Good energy everyone, It’s everything about PHOTOGRAPHIA.You are photographers and if you consider your souls as a decent ones then COME ON celebrate life.
    To take a good picture you have to get “engaged” . You have to talk the talk and walk the walk.
    Emerging and professional photographers don’t be afraid of the Civilians.
    BECAUSE at the end WE are ALL one.

    Where are you Katharina, Herve, Martin, Haik, Valery, John, Stelios, Charles… Please everyone
    go and check your POSTCARDS from England…

  413. David,

    I’m 100% in agreement. I think it is up to us to control our own behavior. Please notice that never have I laid the blame at your doorstep, and always emphasized the responsibility of the writer to write in a manner befitting this place. No one should moderate this board, and I’m not against any ideas. I’m against language used to demean and attack, instead of language used to argue a position. Personally I don’t see any “stooges” here, I don’t think this is appropriate language to use to describe people one disagrees with, I’m sure you don’t agree with it either. I really don’t get why one needs to resort to this sort of gutter language in any forum or setting. I really, really don’t. But that’s a comment to Panos, not to you David, it would be ridiculous to expect you, or anyone, to control a 40 year old person who believes himself to be a grown up.

  414. A civilian-mass audience

    “Any fool can write a novel but it takes real genius to sell it.”
    J. G. Ballard

    I will paraphrase : Anyone can take a picture but you have to be a smart ass to sell one…


    SORRY for my diarrhea…who cares about our comments… and the postings.


  415. David, I am sure it is true that sponsorships, especially corporate ones, would be more likely without the sometimes silly comments made here. Mea culpa. More money could come in and more money could go out. But at what cost? You know what I’ve argued in the past about being too commercial, too polished, and too corporate. It just sucks the soul, and the fun, out of everything, sort of like shooting with the H3D. Burn however could be more segmented, and with more layers to it, without losing its freedom and gaining maybe a bit more polish. I’m sorry, I do not wish to give you another headache but this would take the next evolution of the site itself (redesign) and a greater diversity of content and “rooms” and/or articles. I get the feeling you are heading in this general direction? I know this was discussed at one time.

    Hmmm, it’s late and I’m covered in concrete dust so let me try to figure out my point and get to it. I would advise against killing what makes Burn unique. No one else is this successfully wide open. Certainly there is a fine line, or no line, between true freedom and anarchy but I have no interest in subjugation to the subjective whims of moderators pulling levers behind the curtain. And I doubt other folks in the crowd here do either. I mean, waiting days for a blog post to be added at, ahhhheemm, another photo blog site, just kind of kills it. And frankly most other sites are … too static. This place has energy, sometimes too much for its own good but it’s not stuffy.

    So … don’t kill the comments. Don’t moderate them. Expand the site. Make it a website with a blog (or other such comment sections), not a blogsite. Up the ante. Develop a good plan. Get more help. Provide more to chew on (increase diversity of content). This is a hell of a foundation, as you know, but the time is coming soon for another level and … it’s going to take a larger and more complex organizational structure to handle the load. I know you have no interest in doing this full-time, and you shouldn’t have to. So how do you do this?

    Okay, you asked. :))) Best, tom

  416. DAH, it’s interesting to read here that you would like to see people ” rising to the occasion and only writing something worthy since they know well it could end up in print” and then reading Haik’s comment on Jukka’s “A Kind of Error” essay! And yet I would defend Haik’s post as being in exactly the right place.

    If the photographs shown here on Burn are the body then the comments are the blood that brings it to life. Without the photography-related comments Burn will be just another photo site. I love to read posts that affirm yet challenge a particular vision – challenge in a manner that helps to broaden the mind and push the boundaries. I also like to be entertained!

    What seems to happen here is that, as a post nears its time to close, the comments meander off-topic and become chat. This can be entertaining but probably gets in the way of the educational process that Burn offers its readers in terms of photographs shown and photography-specific comments made.

    The Spring Cleaning / Going to School posts in the Dialogue area are the place for chat; but I think it needs some work as it currently looks just like another essay, with a photograph as an intro and usually a question posed by you. We usually drift off-topic quite quickly here so perhaps we should drop the photo intro, change the header to Musings or Babble or whatever and see how it goes?

    If YOU want to ask a specific question then post it, under a photograph, in the Selected Photographs or Selected Essays sections – but don’t leave it up too long – as soon as people stop commenting on what you ask and start to chat; drop the post.

    Hope this is useful.

    Best wishes,


  417. MIKE R..

    running to airport and reading fast, but i have no problem with Haik post…i am NOT NOT NOT looking for a sanitized BURN….anyway, will explain later..

    cheers, david

  418. if it were possible to have the ‘informal dialogue’ comments NOT show up in the ‘recent comments’ bar and IF there were a certain amount of self policing in keeping the single/essay threads on track, and taking all other dialogue over to the ‘green room’ to thrash out, then I think all would be well. there IS a tremendous amount of talent, experience and vision around here after all. But i can sort of see the point of people who are getting a bit ‘what the fuck is going on here?’ sometimes. Would be a shame to have to throw the baby out with the bathwater, as it is usually VERY good bathwater.
    Just a thought.

    BTW David if there is anything that I can help with to help lighten the load a bit just give me a shout id be more than happy to.

  419. A civilian-mass audience

    As Mr.Jim “proposed” maybe you can just make BURN
    “Geeze, unbelievable.” Thank you Mr.Jim

    It will look very professional to burn all the other threads like this one and you can just keep two ALIVE threads :

    AS MR.MIKE wrote:” Without the photography-related comments Burn will be just another photo site. I love to read posts that affirm yet challenge particular vision – challenge in a manner that helps to broaden the mind and push the boundaries.”

    This will look very professional ans since everyone here is over …something, BURN will unbeatable !!

    What about this suggestion? Mr. Jim can you compromise …??
    Since I am the only one who don’t seem to comment the photos and essays …Let’s eliminate “me”, the dialogue… Anyways , your keys are almost ready…YOU are READY NOW. MY WORK is done. You are more Civilized ,more happier and you All look like STARS to me eyes.

  420. A civilian-mass audience

    SEE, What I am talking about …Where is the EDIT BUTTON. I will blame the iphone too:))))))))))))

  421. A civilian-mass audience


    I think It is TIME TO CLEAN THE HOUSE !!!
    No need to reply.

    P.S Let’s wish good energy please, DAHY is traveling again !!!

  422. A civilian-mass audience


    BURNIANS let’s celebrate

    BURN baby is 4 months !!

    It’s your party and we will “burn” it
    it’s your party and we love it …
    I will miss you
    but I know that you will make it
    either way…
    I love you Burners
    Keep it up and you deserve it
    want no tears you freaking “babies”
    It’s your party and I won’t burn it.


  423. A civilian-mass audience

    LAST thing, I can’t help myself

    Mr. Jukka Onnela have you ever considered MAGNETIC paint??
    Ok, OK, I was just joking…

    VIVA !!! TODAY WE are drinking KARHU.

  424. panos skoulidas

    I don’t see any…
    But I see “Ypotheta”…
    In Greece is a medicine that goes
    straight in the body through the “back door”…
    Just a medicine…
    That was that I offered…
    Not an Epithet…
    Hey Civilian since you’re Greek
    Tell the dark alliance that it was medicine( Ypotheta)
    that I offered them.. not epithets…

    Ok.. Seriously now..
    thank you…
    Can’t wait to watch the new slideshow myself..
    First JOB for BOB AS AN EDITOR…
    CONGRATULATIONS BOB on your new responsibilities..
    Morning y’all 7:44 am in LA…
    Good morning Katharina ,
    Good morning Beijing…
    Don’t complain about $300 Chinese Internet..
    $1200 a year for iPhone here…

  425. Panos “$1200 a year for iPhone here…” and still no flash player! Steve Jobs; hang your head in shame.

    ‘Bout time you brought out a pPhone Steve, with driver-friendly controls please.

    God day Mr P!


  426. Yes, a pPhone. Just think about the predictive text software: press F and it auto-types fuck, C gives us Corolla, B, Beijing, V, Venice (naturally). This phone could take off!

    Over to you Panos (laughing).

    Best wishes,


  427. panos skoulidas

    Mike R..
    Driving to fucking Venice right now..
    As we speak…
    From downtown LA to Venice…
    Big hug..
    Results soonest!!!!
    Haven’t “smoked” for a month…
    Holding on to every penny for the deposit
    of that tiny flat…
    But today??
    Oh today’s the day…
    First corona to you Mike..

  428. panos skoulidas

    Mike R…
    Yes.. That tiny little studio/flat..
    Is in the middle of the little Salvador..
    Between Koreatown and Little Tokyo in downtown LA..
    So much color..
    I think I found my new “Venice”..
    Stay tuned..
    Can u believe that I live on the top floor .. Right above
    a salvadorian church that do EXORCISMS…!!!??!
    no kidding..
    I’ll post some stuff soonest..
    Right now I’m working hard on the
    “access department”…
    I’m the only “white face” in the building if u know what I mean..!
    People refuse to speak to me in English if u know what I mean..
    Loves it..
    Ok back to Venice …

  429. Panos,
    you have a new home? That is WONDERFUL!!!
    Very, very good to hear. Big smile on my face.
    Take care,

    there is a comment of mine awaiting moderation …
    As I want to avoid it getting buried here, I will try rewriting it.

    please do take a minute to read and possibly sign the petition:
    (link: please exchange the “,” with “/”),2009,04,the-gravediggers-of-photojournalism,

    There is a petition attached to this. As the link in the English version seems to be missing, here it is once again
    (link: please exchange the “,” with “/”),appell,petition,

    Some of DAH’s colleagues are allready on the list.

    Thanks for your time.

  430. Hey Panos, just today I was wondering “what will be the next essay for Panos” no kidding – for real! And now you tell me that you now live in Little Salvador, just between Koreatown and Little Tokyo! I think you have found your next essay. Working on access? I know that you can do it – just turn on the old Greek charm. If you tried you could be … oh … U.S. Ambassador to Beijing! Laughing Panos, looking forward to the exorcism!

    Joining you now in a beer,


  431. panos skoulidas

    Mike R..
    I even replaced the mexican
    CORONA beer with the salvadorian
    CAGUAMA beer…
    No joke…

    Even DAH was envy about the pad
    .. The other day when I was describing
    Him the pad location he told me..
    “Hmmmm, my kinda place”..
    There is no place for Tri-X here..
    It’s all color color ( colour in English )…
    Really though … Let me put it this way..
    If I could blindfold KATHLEEN and let her in the street in
    Front of my building she would never believe she is back home in USA..:))
    now if I could blindfold ANTON and let him walk around 5 blocks from here..
    He would wonder what happened to his JACOUZA friends( jaccuzzi is for Americans bubbly hot massage in a bathtub)..little Tokyo , best sushi…:)))
    Yes Mike R…
    una mas CAGUAMA for you..
    I love people with sense of humor ..
    I love Mike R…
    Death to all my sexless enemies…
    Viva prostitution..
    Unlimited love to all the whores that live in
    my building…
    I will vote for legal prostitution..

  432. Oh, okay.

    So, Panos, you figured out who I am. Since I’ve been saying the same thing for over a year and a half, I would have figured it would have taken about 30 seconds. Instead, it took you two weeks. Well done. Have another bong hit, Miss Marple.

    To All,

    I have had an entertaining time reviewing your comments, and I really want to take the opportunity to thank you for your all your kind thoughts and comments.

    Human psychology is a fascinating thing, and what has really interested me here is your collective tribal behavior. I know when prodded or threatened, you tend to lash out, defend your members from outsiders, contract, cry outrage, and generally behave as an self respecting group of primates would.

    I made comments here that I thought were necessary. I don’t condone harassment, and if I see it, I am compelled to say something. I think it’s shameful that you allow the type of behavior you do on this blog. I would be, no, am, ashamed to be associated with it.

    I also offered some very sharp advice. Your squabbles are laughable. The anger level has been seething for months. You are repeating yourselves, and your level of discourse and thinking is, at times, cringeworthy in it’s glorious, self-righteous ignorance.

    Now, I understand these may be bitter words to read, and you may see them as a betrayal. I suggest that you, collectively, are betraying yourselves, David, and the photographers with the embarrassing, hurtful, childish and cruel behavior.

    I pretty much expected to be pilloried, given your primitive group dynamics… it’s easy to dismiss someone’s words once they’ve been debased by the group. But you’ve really outdone yourselves!

    You can collectively vilify and malign me all you want, it’s actually fairly interesting to see how you go about it… but does not change my mind, as a matter of fact it validates my more pessimistic conclusions. It’s sort of beside the point that your major outrage is based on self-serving distortion offered to you by Panos.

    The major point you’ve all missed is that I said what I did because Burn does have so much potential, but your own infantile behavior threatens its success. So make me your bogeyman… at least for the last two weeks you’ve been civil to each other. You’re welcome for that.

    Just remember, you have been told.

    It’s been interesting, thanks.

    By the way, the Onnela piece is the best of Burn so far, by far. You should all take what he said about his work to heart. He knows something, the rest of you are guessing, stumbling around in the dark.

  433. panos skoulidas

    David McG, Patricia…
    ( although I can’t open this link either )
    I’ll second your thought about DETROIT..
    the motor city…
    This city suffers the most since the whole
    Depression thing started..
    It’s all about the people…
    I love Detroit…
    I can’t thing of my life driving anything else
    than a mustang..
    You know what I mean???
    I know in the century of hybrids I still love
    the classic V8’s.. Barracudas, Camaros and mustangs..
    Not kidding …
    But as Patricia said..
    and people make cars
    And I love cars…
    I live in LA dang it…
    Ok.. Back to my Caguama beer..
    Big hug from Los Angeles…

  434. SON of fly….

    I am happy you like Jukka’s piece….my first scratch as editor-at-large…stay tuned (as DAH reminds) much more too come….

    as for my own relationship/comments about fly, i must tell you that comments like “He knows something, the rest of you are guessing, stumbling around in the dark.” is not only profoundly disheartening but serve no purpose what so ever….the reason why I brought Jukka’s essay to burn was not only because it is brilliant heart felt, honest work, but because, yes, jukka’s perspective on work and the photo world is pretty authentic (and that has nothing to do with the content of this essay) and born out of commitment to work, the work and photographic life, period.

    I do no understand the need to write things like that, and am still at a loss to imagine the source.

    all that matters SonofFly, as we have discussed many times people, is to act well, to live the life as one’s testament, to make work that is necessary to make, to not care about worth of the work, but to value the arc….the rest is just dross….

    group think has not baring on my life, but neither does an Olympian spurning….

    but ok, whatever. doesnt matter.

    regardless of what you think, or what you write, or whatever hostility or infantilism or bellicosity that may emerge from time to time, I am committed to help promote, showcase and bring to bare rich, interesting, challenging and thoughtful work…..

    all the personal dynamics aren’t that important……

    it’s the work that matters in a Photography Magazine….

    ok, stuff to do…


  435. last thing Son of Fly….I really do not understand why the need for anonymity and bellicosity….especially toward what we’ve tried to accomplish….i am disheartened and saddened….if there was one person i’d met in NY who I thought had perspective, it was you….i still think that, i just am saddened…but the world does that doesn’t it, it disenchants… reaffirms simple truth: to rely on yourself and family above all, ’cause most people do not care one iota about others….i care fly, that’s all i can say…

    well, whatever…

    all the best

  436. BOB….

    again, many thanks for bringing Jukko to us ….he had submitted a smaller version of this essay several weeks ago, we spoke a bit about it, and then i lost him….bless you for staying on top of it…now amigo, i have one for you…Crest Hotel….i will not give the name of the photographer yet, because i want it to be a surprise (or , maybe you already know)….this will take us out there yet again in a new direction….and when we meet in Toronto next week i will show you some of the essays that came in for EPF that will also surprise…we can go over them together and choose the ones we think will work best here on BURN…

    the best way always to counter negativity is by productivity…so let’s roll up our sleeves and get to work…

    mostly Bob, thank you for always being a positive influence here on BURN…your energy is astounding…and you have the very best way of expressing either pleasure or displeasure with something without ever taking anyone to task…i did not have to give you the title Editor at Large…you ARE Editor at Large….

    cheers, peace, ..david

  437. Why oh why does our brother insist on retaining his mask when so many folks here already know who he is? So strange. Doesn’t he realize that anything he writes as a UFO loses credibility? I find it particularly frustrating because–although I do not know who he is–this individual is obviously intelligent and could be adding so much of value to our discussions. What a waste.


  438. Son of Fly,

    I wish you would not remain anonymous, especially now that the “insiders” here seem to know your real identity. To me, as someone who was in complete agreement with your call for civility, maturity and respect here, and who is still being exposed to the usual bullying for that reason, it is disheartening that someone like you who was and is making a plea for decency should feel the need to remain anonymous, while people whose ‘discourse’ comes from the gutter are not ashamed to put their real signature under their diatribes.

  439. panos skoulidas

    congratulations BOB BLACK..
    u totally deserve it..
    You da man !!!!
    ( back to Caguama beer now )

  440. Kathleen Fonseca

    Ok..i am going to swallow the lump in my throat. I am going to shake off the cringe that just took over my spine. Going to shake my own curly head and snap out of the grip of pain that son of a fly just put me in..and i’m gonna tell you all, insiders, outsiders, outlying islanders, outta spacers (listening, Space Cowboy) and just plain philosophers and poetesses..

    Today i was in the pilates studio. Yes, i am a pilates nut job who would not be able to walk without it because i have a pretty serious back problem. Pilates keeps me upright and pounding that pavement to take my pictures. But ok, who cares about that? Anyway, a new instructor just came here from Florida. She travels the world spending a year here, a year there working for pilates studios. She was sitting there with me and someone said i was a photographer. She said, yeah? I’m an artist. I said yeah? She said, “You ever hear of DVAFoto? Nope, i said, you ever hear of Burn Magazine? She jumped up and screeched, “I LOVE BURN MAGAZINE!!!!!!!!”, maybe this is pretty insignificant to you cosmopolitan folks but to me, living and working down here so far from anybody i can talk to about anything photographic, well, i was just plain gobsmacked (heh)..and i thought, literally and pardon my language but this Fly-on-shit has just pushed me too far. I have not been able to get his hideous poem out of my mind since re-reading it this morning. I would post it in its entirety but that just perpetuates the negativity and if you wanna see it, look it up in Daria’s thread. DAH, Anton, Bob, Patricia, Panos, Dimitri, Rafal, Jim, all of you, every last one who contributes here and is concerned about these things, Burn IS succeeding, it’s working. We’re working, lots of people behind the scenes are working. This piece of crap fly boy may be intelligent and articulate and all the rest but he is pure poison. I am grateful that he’s so miserable here he is mostly gone. What he needs is a good fly swatter. sheesh…

    kat bearing a big can of Raid..


  441. I am relatively new here, I have not been on any of DAH’s workshops, I happily chanced upon Burn.

    My initial reaction was,incredulity that I had happened upon a free open resource for viewing great photography, with the generous guidance of a highly respected/experienced photographer/editor. Amazing. A chance to discuss photography of all types and genres and hopefully improve my own understanding and technique.

    I quickly realised, that there was a commeradrie and banter between individuals who had attended DAh’s workshops, understandable, as I imagine the workshops are pretty intense and life affirming, the down side being there are alot of insider jokes/comments which are inaccesible to the general public. The same as any community I guess.

    What really struck and angered me was the aggresive interference on threads as constructive discussion progressed, just plain purile and rude. As a consequence I nearly threw in the towel and gave up on what is a brilliant concept, resource and force for the good of photography in the vast sea of the internet.

    There is nothing wrong with being passionate, engaged and a devils advocate. But the amount of time, energy and effort that has been devoted to igniting and then quelling spats between characters, over issues that are non photo related, let alone the alienation this has caused is disheartening.

    I mean it is pissing me off spending time to write this.

    I have now resorted to mentally filtering out the noise, and focus on the constructive commentators of this magazine and I am finding some real gems, the same as any community I guess.

  442. A civilian-mass audience

    BURNIANS listen, listen, to us



    BOBBY I LOVE YOU the best Editor by far … Dima and Marina Be PROUD.

    KATIE , MY fire, I LOVE YOU …see u soon
    My Gracie I am still waiting for the poem, I love you

    KEEP MOVING , WE are on FIRE