Maria Burns is my next door neighbor…literally….and a photographer….and an erstwhile student at the International Center of Photography here in New York….Maria is Swiss and a finer neighbor one could not have…i just took this picture tonight after returning to NYC from the Carolina shore… i was leaving home and coming home at the same time… happens here in the Kibbutz, folks just pop their heads in to say howdy…mighty small town feel the Kibbutz… just as i was trying to edit something for Burn, in walks Maria….

saying that she couldn’t stay long, because she ,”i have to do my homework”….

in any case, what would you do?? yes, damn right, you take a picture….any old picture..right??

now i want at some point in time to photograph Maria seriously for the “You Made Me Leave” book i am doing…this was just a “warm up” picture…a print to give to Maria…..neither of us is “loose enough yet” for the real thing…but, this is part of the process….and i will show you what eventually comes out of it….

by the way, Maria is a professional “hugger” (see YouTube link below)….i think we could all use one….

what is the point of this post???

why am i not announcing the EPF grant finalists?

yes, ok ok , i will announce the EPF finalists soonest…i am not trying to tease, i am just behind…so, my usual plea for patience will i hope not fall on deaf ears….i should be able to announce the finalists to be juried for the EPF by next week…so, that will be my next post under Dialogue….

well, there really is not much point to this post except it is  just in the spirit of “journal” or “diary”…and i have a pretty good photo diary of snapshots  of family and friends as above  from the time i was 13 to just a few minutes ago when i made this photo…and maybe i just wanted some excuse to write tonight and keep it  “light tonight”  on our forum…while our number one preoccupation is viewing the work of some young photographers here on Burn, the phenomenon of Burn is that so many of us have become such good friends in “real life”…our virtual world has become the real world…cool huh?? …and something that none of us know about yet will happen here on BURN and with our community and the work produced…

we are going to have a tiny little notch in photo history….i believe in that kinda stuff….


i think there are few of us who do not feel the magic in full throttle ,thundering down the road….and while there has never been an intent here to create some kind of social site, the BURN crowd exists in reality …. worldwide…many of you reading this know this to be absolute…of course the writers here form a bit of a dysfunctional family…pretty obvious….doors get slammed……arguing  is heard…..yet, the laughter is raucous….life/photoraphy  is talked about in a special way…the best of Burn will make us all proud…..the respect runs deep……everybody sits down for dinner….nobody really leaves home…..

maybe that is the point of this post…maybe i was just trying to say ..welcome home…..

abrazos, david

302 thoughts on “coming home….”

  1. welcome home
    dearest david…
    love your thoughts..
    your generosity…
    your insights….
    I do not know Laura..
    but she must be very special
    to be so adored….
    love your personal diary shot..
    would like to see many more,
    every day….
    a day in the life
    David Alan Harvey….

  2. Agree with Wendy! I want to hug everyone! Love the personal notes, David. I would love to meet Maria, and just hug her for spreading love…and breaking down that street barricade that so many walking NYC city streets possess…especially outside the Holiday market in the busy, busy Union Square. Spread love, make art…or spread art, make love, own who you are, rock out, create, have sass. I love you all.

  3. It’s took me long time to use to BURN after my favorite ROAD TRIPS flown off with angles to heaven.
    Three months ago I changed my small loft to my new small loft and I need some time to used to too.
    I feel at BURN like at home, like at my own place… ups… sorry… I do.
    My space… my space…

    marcin IRL: it is online photo magazine!
    marcin: my space… my space…
    marcin IRL: Magazine!
    marcin: my space… my place…
    marcin IRL: glupek…

    I am mostly out of home like in real life lately….
    But I like come back to both (who didn’t?).
    I will wait for EPF and ‘You Made me Leave’ as usually.
    And sending you all big HUGH (excellent video :)

    must run… peace


  4. A civilian-mass audience

    OIME, oime, oime,oime,

    I am so Happy BURNing …It seems that I won’t be able to get out of here…
    BUT WHAT THE HECK, mother F…fathers !!!!!!!!!!!!!! TODAY we are freaking celebrate AGAIN.

    DoAsDavid, with this posting I will give you your key, the house,the ouzo and the magnetic leftovers.
    Can I say I LOVE YOU…Yikes. What the F%&&^k can I say. I want to kiss your mother, your father, your kids,your girlfriend, your friends, your enemies,your teachers, your students, your phantoms,your Bald head :)))))))))))))))))))))

    I don’t want to write history …I want to drink and eat and talk with all of you…
    I can see you All in DAH’s room or in your Greek room laughing and putting photos up on our magnetic walls.
    I can see you ALL and I love you ALLL.
    MR.HARVEY we are home ..
    To the Best..os,abrazos,manolos,whatever…

    P.S MARIA the HUGGER, you are coming with DAH ,you don’t need a key…are u single?Just a question?
    Need to reply :))


  5. panos skoulidas

    Hey Marcin..
    By the way..
    I’ve seen your skype request..
    I’ll skype you as soon as I get Internet..
    Thursday night…
    Get a camera.. I’ll show you my
    Salvadorian apartment..

  6. Kathleen Fonseca

    OHHHHHHHHhhhhhHHHh..and now, i turn the page and there’s this..this celebration of coming home, singing, laughing, loving, Laura-ing, Carrie’ing, Panos-ing, Marcin-ing, Civilian-ing, DAH-ing and now a new member of the family, MARIA HUGGING…

    weehaaa…you guys got me doing the merengue (Panos, you gonna learn the merengue and the salsa now you’ll be hanging with those Salvadorenos)..

    YES!! David, welcome to homesweet loft!


  7. Kathleen Fonseca

    you got it Haik.. are so cool i think..Raw or Jpg indeed! heh!


  8. DAH

    great post, reminds me of Road Trip…
    i really enjoy your personal diary stuff,
    more of it will never be enough!

    cheers (& thanks)

  9. Kibbutz looks like a cool place to hang out, David. The bike in the background …. stuck to the wall with metallic paint?


  10. Kathleen Fonseca


    Man, i just burst out laughing..can’t even adjust the temp…hahahahahaha..yeah, and to that i say goodnight..oh yeah and i loved your comment under Jukka’s essay. It was very ambiguous and and almost violent..wasn’t sure where you were really talking from till the end. I thought your response to the essay matched very well the entire feeling of the work. You captured the spirit of the thing and i really only expected that from showed a new side to me…and now, goodnight!


  11. Viva magnetic walls and metallic paints. Viva lightweight ferromagnetic bikes.
    shmoochalicious hugs to all.

    goodnight to you to, Kat.

  12. that´s such a funny post.. there is nothing like meandering thoughts and admitting that you are trying to tease.. too funny..

    hug zone.. maria rocks like bamboo.

  13. Welcome Home all!!!
    and just like 1 year ago, and like most years before, I’m again packing my boxes to a new home, a rapid hello to the old friends before moving forwards, trying to keep in touch though…

  14. DEAR DAVID yay. for someone who gives so spontaneously, thoroughly (you) i feel this surge of joy reading about your homecoming. you deserve it. it’s your old mirror/window . i don’t mean to be corny, but i know you and know how sincere you are in your giving. thanks for the maria hug zone too. love, anne

  15. A civilian-mass audience

    Can someone call our Spacecowboy back home ?

    I WISH, I WISH I AM bblack AS Editor :)))
    I am waiting for the ” Cresta Motel, hotel…!!

  16. A civilian-mass audience

    Dearest ANNIE,

    Check this out …
    I got your role

    ANNE HENNING AS Agnodice

    No time to explain, ask Mr. Harvey … your key is ready…

  17. Hey David,
    Your charge Haik has issued a ridiculous threat against me. Maybe it’s an attempt at humor, but I just want you to know if anyone actually carries it out, I will send the police to your door.

  18. son of fly, haik, panos – FOR THE LOVE OF LIFE LEAVE IT ALONE:
    this is a new thread – not everyone is interested – f$$king stop it now.

    so angry at you right now son of fly – what the fuck is the problem that you are now taking to davids door – GET A GRIP:::

    it is getting outta hand.. we´re here for the love of photography – not egos nor rights and wrongs.

    son of fly – whatever the fuck haik is on about with you now, take care of it yourself like a grown up.. if it´s serious enough, just get in touch with whomever you need to . . .

    some of us are more concerned about the man who has put this forum together than we are about who said what and who´s blaming who..
    i went back and read the rest of darias thread after leaving it halfway through by saying ´not read above as it´s getting twisted´. . . just put a nail in the coffin and call it dead – email each other whatever – i don´t care but please.. this stress is not what most of us are hear for and if i read you right, son of fly, you´ve gone too far.. screw whatever haik said – just deal with it and allow the stress levels in here to settle.

    this is not funny.. there is no such thing as blame and no excuse for this dragging on further.


    you just hosed down what life is left in this thread, or a new attempt at it.

    you guys hose yourselves down and quit!!!!

    email and take it up with him

    no http://www.www‘s that link does not work.

  21. A civilian-mass audience

    YOU really fly my man,woman

    Dearest Mr. Fly,

    I am wearing a mask like you and I know that BURN sometimes really Burns and hurts and …
    I left many times but I kept coming back. Between , me and you , I know the feeling… I almost cried once here… Someone called me tedious, someone else said that I have diarrhea…no it’s not FUNNY…
    DO YOU HEAR BURNIANS…it’s not funny.

    I know I shouldn’t be HERE. BUT I LOVE photography because It’s like my hiding place.I am dyslexic and it takes me forever to read big posts…Anyway, who cares :))

    Well, check above, Mr. Powers doesn’t even accept his key.
    Did I forget to give you your key ? I have to check but I don’t know you. Are you a philosopher are you civilian?
    Let’s make this place a better one… i know you will ignore me too…

  22. 5 to 4 young tom.. no drinks for 2 hours :ø)
    it´s a beautiful day outside.. hot as a snake in a wagon rut.. came here for cool refreshment..

  23. Yup, Young Tom. I’ll take a beer, too…and a shot of tequila. Not sure what kind of strangeness and argument is happening here, but I’m pretty sure it’s unnecessary…

    I cheers to…”ziggy zahggie ziggy zahggie, oi oi oi!”

    just kidding. relax, drink a beer, have a laugh. Cheers to bUrn!

  24. A civilian-mass audience

    IT’S OUR PARTY and WE are dancing!!!

    We are BURNING,
    Come on people,
    Let’s take pictures
    so we can share them
    and after we can SELL THEM :))

    LET’S HUNG TOGETHER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  25. Very nice. Tell Maria she needs to set up franchises :))

    I have also just left home and come home. San Diego to Santa Fe.

    New old neighbors to visit and catch up with. New subjects to photograph, although I was LOVING what I was shooting in California…will show it one day soon. Tons of new places to eat. Yes, it’s nice to be home.

    Not really feeling “at home” anymore writing here on burn, although it’s a nice place to visit. New writers have taken over and I’m happy to look at the images and stay out of the drama zone. :))

  26. cathy – COME HOME:

    i just found another 9 rolls of exposed undeveloped film.. bringing the total to 46 rolls.
    no idea whats on them.. 4 are 120 film and i´ve not had my 6×6 camera for 6 yerars.. they are extra rolls shot on commission, (while fried), without the funds to develop at the time.

    will i auction them off as curios on ebay or get them dev-ed?

  27. A civilian-mass audience

    OH !! Cathy,

    definitely you are from the first BURNians. that’s your home.
    COME ON everybody !!! Don’t be negative and self- fish!!!

    What are we drinking today??

  28. who´s a shellfish?
    why be crabby?
    lets winkle out the clams without constructive thoughts by encrusting the blog with positives.

    besides, my dads mussels are bigger than yours.
    out for teh afternoon sun.. and fun..

  29. Civilian, David and all,

    I mean no disrespect to anyone writing here. No negativity at all. Just happy to take a back seat here (for the time being at least) and let others do the “work” of writing (and on occasion fighting.) I am enjoying being a passenger in this burning vehicle. :))

  30. A civilian-mass audience

    DAVIDB ,

    how’s is my Tor Capa …
    we have to bring together Felix and your Baby.
    Where is Mr. Charles?? Anyone?

    Love u Cathy!!!

    I can’t sleep everyone. I don’t wanna miss the Cresta Hotel !!!!!!!!!!

  31. A civilian-mass audience


    The haddock or offshore hake is a marine fish distributed on both sides of the North Atlantic. Haddock is a popular food fish, widely fished commercially.

    Akaky , you are such a writer…Any books on the market??

  32. okay – was going out.. now baby sitting with tor capa.

    civilian.. he´s in great shape.. cuddling tiger.. i´m cleaning cameras now.. got me 20 spanking lovely shiny rolls of film this morning for some of the balkans work which needs film.

    akaky – for cods hake.. i´m sorry. you´re a star – fish need not bother you.

  33. David & all

    There IS magic here on Burn! Yes, sometimes we lose sight of that in the heat of the moment. And sometimes we hurt rather than help one another. I’m still sorry for something I said about dear Civilian a few weeks back. But we’re human and mistakes come with the territory.

    For many of us the wonder of spring is unfolding before our winter-weary eyes. Here in Michigan it takes its own sweet time but that just gives us more of a chance to appreciate each tiny lime-green leaf as it takes its place among the symphony of the whole. And as the world around us is renewing itself, so too are we here on Burn. Most of us are honored to accept David’s generous hospitality, to sit in his big old sofa and look out over the East River towards Manhattan’s wondrous skyline. We feel so at home that we put on a fresh pot of coffee and share the bagels and cream cheese we brought with us from the cafe a couple blocks away. If we’re able-bodied, we might even take our hot cuppa up on the roof and sit in the sun. Ah, the view from the roof is something to behold! I’ve seen pics so I know…

    So I thank you, dear David, for inviting us into your home and your heart. You call forth the best that we can be, as photographers and more importantly as human beings. May we continue to evolve as Burn is evolving. And may we have lots of fun doing it!

    in loving gratitude

  34. Oh my gawd, David McG, you just keep DOING IT my man! This new chapter of your long-term project is superbly captured and absolutely chilling. Yes, you’ll tighten it up and edit out redundant shots, but have you got a lot of fine stuff to work with! And the audio, as with Garage Sale, adds an important dimension to the story. Just keep at it; you are on a roll!!!


  35. Thanks Patricia! I don’t want to give the impression that this is turning into a gun rights essay, but a gathering of a militia to take part in the tea party movement seemed a good place to start a study of “Tea Parties and Taxes”.

  36. patricia,
    it did break my heart… because when you said that to civilian, i was also right in the middle of it. but i am glad your sweet suite is ready. Not only does civilian know a few things like nicknames and philosopher second lives, he knows how to forgive.

    we all have our own ideas of what success to BURN means.
    to me:
    it feels like a small community and longtime friends or new friends and CREATIVE friends dammit! Such a conglomeration of the same passion of photography with different levels and different backgrounds in what I think is a small space 17inch screen.

    but then i know it is NOT so small, neither all real. this is much wider and global than we think. And yes we all need to be careful as to what we say and what we think about what another says and even though there is so much LOVE festing here that may sound fake, i certainly dont think the intent is totally unreal.
    i never went to day care and certainly I don’t have a lot of time on my hands to just be here in raucous rowdy. i am not as young and sweet as my mask may think but BURN gives me connections, realism to push me further and beyond what i am now.
    oh yes, i want to be great in my own eyes, but I am stuck, stuck dreadfully in the muck of daily life. The pictures but more so the chatter saves me.

    We all should throw compliments as carelessly as the negatives have been thrown around here. We all come to BURN for something, why not add to what another might gain from BURN as you have?
    So I don’t take a second look as to why anyone would throw a compliment around here. I don’t second guess the compliments. I don’t call them fake. Do we all stay and listen to what comes after the question: “Hi, how are you doing?”

    For the time being, it might be worthwhile to give the compliments. Who knows to the receiving end one compliment so ‘nonchalantly left’ might be the only thing that stops them from jumping from the 22nd floor.

  37. i know akaky – eely bad of me.
    difficult to skate over when hooked by the quality of your casts though.. i´ll relinquish hope of battering you at this game, ya wee scamp(i)

    you remain king(prawn) to my amoeba in this vast ocean.

    (mushy) pea´s n chips.

  38. david mc.

    i like the twist – it does seem like the dawning of a new project, despite the tea party link.. a story about the misunderstood militia would seem the way forward to me.. and the link from the tea party could be the organic development leading to a new story, rather than an extension of the last one.. garage sale is so strong in it´s final form and i´m uncertain of how this development might blend into it..

    what do you think? i guess you have a good handle on the different rooms which will make up your overall story – as part of ´í´m one of those americans´ you must be programing for the long run, so i don´t want to speak out of turn.
    i think it would great to see a project dedicated to the militia and i think it would have the legs as a stand alone project to be well worth perusing..

    mackerel sky here in norway :ø)

  39. The relationship to “I’m one of those Americans” is a continued study of Michigan’s economy, but I’m debating whether it should be titled differently. I think I’ll know what to do with it collectively when I get another season under my belt.

  40. as an umbrella title it works well david.. great that you are giving it time.. long term projects are really the most satisfying to look at, i think.

    and shooting.. the longer we spend at something the more possibilites for where it could go.. the more we change over time the more we see.. and what we see changes at the same time.
    just so much to get stuck into with long term projects.

  41. A civilian-mass audience


    I love your photos But you shoot like an Irish person. My feeling …
    Coming back to explain.

    I told you before I am with you from the beginning !!! YOU big HEART!!!

    My Gracie,
    After your last posting you got it. you got it. You will have the suite too…no more sharing with Katie…
    Maybe you can share yours with Spacecowboy !! where Are you my man?

    you know your fate!!! suite my girl !! upgrade!!! suite !!! maybe you can share with Sidney .Niah..You two are talking to much. ANYWAY

    Yes, I can’t forget Panos,
    your key is ready !! But he just got his “loft” now. But you never know with Panos :)))

    Well, it’s time to ZZZZZZZZ in Europe.
    VIVA America,South and North, Viva Europe, South and North, Viva Asia , South and North, Viva Africa…
    Viva Australia….Viva F&**K I am tired… DAHY thank yoooo

  42. David McG, I’m from England, so seeing a group of individuals armed to the teeth is somewhat unusual. I don’t understand the Tea parties and Taxes term – Boston Tea Party?

    Best wishes,


  43. A civilian-mass audience


    LET”S HUG ALL TOGETHER … (please have a shower first)

    IT’s the EARTH DAY

    TODAY we celebrate AGAIN… EARTH DAY.. let’s embrace her and our energy
    We can Burn the ROOF down (joking)

  44. Mike – there’s a movement here that’s borrowing the symbolism of the Boston Tea Party to protest government spending and the taxes that will follow. The militia photos don’t really represent a typical protest – it’s more like their annual Field Day with a Tea Party thrown in for good measure. I’ll have a presentation of a more typical protest in a few days, but the coverage of the militia gathering seemed a good place to start.

  45. welcome home DAH..thank you for the link to Maria’s piece, lovely, joyous..

    db, akaky, stop floundering and have a little sole, maybe go back to school and find new depths?

    Gordon, am grant writing so that I can do a photo story on Amma’s Humanitarian activities..she’s been my Amma mamma these past 10 years, and she/ the NGO is in support of the project..tell your wife there is Amma love on burn ;)

  46. DAH

    I was told to call and then contact you here… I would love to chat when you have a sec…

  47. “Brevity is the sole of wit”
    –Octopus, from Sharkspeare’s Halibut

    who let the cods out y;’all??

    ok, all, as a newly minted moy (be that editor), i gotta fish up a story: Once in a whale, all of us urchins have been known to flounder about, and well a bit of shark never hurt anyone….so, let’s just all filet this perch we’re all sittin so heal and mackerel and just call each other Kings of the Sea…

    it’s totally tin time to deep fry this gill and just group-er hug….i mean, I dont mean to carp on anyone, but like can-d we all just snorkel along?…

    now, i hope all of u can keep your cockles steamed and tender

    tuna or later all of our ray will come.

    hugs all

    off to work…



    bob you might be a writer and photographer but



  49. David McG – thanks for the info. I look forward to seeing more.

    Talking about fish. I read (somewhere) that Salman Rushdie (groan) was, at one time, a copywriter and came up with the verse (not satanic verse) for the Aero chocolate bar. The said bar is composed of chocolate and bubbles (air spaces so that you think that you have more chocolate (like life) than you actually have).

    His take on the bar was that it was adorabubble, delectabubble etc. I knew that you wanted to know.


  50. BOB B, editor-at-large, fish-punsman, we love you (Oh, it IS a lovefest around here today…mostly, that is).

    BEN…big congrats to you! Have you submitted an edit of The Brick Business to be shown here on Burn. If not, sure hope you will.


  51. thankyou guys.

    the BJP have first publishing rights on “The Brick Business” , which will be sometime in November.

    I did however enter the EPF with a different body of work (not the strongest to be honest, too soon for this one…) so maybe that could be suitable for burn at a later date.

    however i am still kind of lost for words!


  52. BEN…

    congratulations!!! i am proud of you amigo….but, why oh why didn’t we publish on Burn??? i do not think you have ever submitted anything here….and you well know i am a fan of your work, and i soon hope to have my requested print of yours on my wall (did you send through London office??)…

    anyway, i was already planning on treating you to the first round in a London pub in june, but now with this new honor, i guess i have already moved into round 2!!


    sorry, i have just been so crazy busy with EPF etc. that i have missed many e-mails…my apologies, but you will just have to “stay on my case”…if you think i may have missed an email, please just re-send….i know it is a pain, but i am overwhelmed and even miss some emails from my own family…

    thanks for your patience…i look forward to either speaking with you by phone (or Skype), or in looking at and reviewing a link you may send….

    cheers, david

  53. Hola David. have not talked with you in awhile. I will be in NYC May 14-17 – i hope you will be around – would love to catch up. If not – will see you at LOOK. xox

  54. oh yeah… loved the HUG ZONE. i would love to do that – i love a nice strong hug (ask Bob Black). even though i can be shy (stop laughing David) – i would love to do that.

  55. DAVID,

    Good to see this shot from your apartment… I sort of recognize the setting :):). I have almost the same picture with Anton working in your loft as opposed to this charming lady…what is best Anton or Maria???….huuuummm…. I like bold heads but maybe I prefer Maria :):):)

    Hope you have fun in New York. Past days have been crazy again for me like I am sure for you. I am heading back to Europe for 2 weeks Sunday…where the hell is my home these days?!?! I hope you did get the files I sent you…. you were joking when you said it may take us a year…we may be right. If there is a chance to regroup before Sunday great if not, I will stay on your case when I am back in Cinci in 2 weeks :):):).

    OK time for a bob black hug … oh sorry, even better, a hug from new hug master Maria!!!!



  56. Civi…

    i hear you, i hear you…
    but like i’ve said before, i’m on a mission ,
    i ain’t got no time for chit chatting round here…

    Davey Boy,
    that is Mr. Harvey…
    that’s quite the neighbor ya got ya self there ; )
    if i ever get back down to earth, i’m a headin straight
    for this here Key-bootz, seems like a party joint if ever,
    i do declare…

    Coming Home… heck, i’m always coming home, always leaving again too,
    it’s what happens out here, in orbit…
    coming and going,
    round and round…

    maybe NASA can send me up a Hug’o’naught
    keep me company…

    and Bobby… them there orange tones are indeed most Hug’o’delic,
    ‘return-withdraw’… hmmm darn nice turn of phrase…
    and yep that there by-cycle is stuck on the wall
    but heck! i got ma card table on the ceiling!
    yo’all should see it, a mighty fine piece of construction.

    But wait… is that a burn’o’matic doob’o’licious fat little
    scoob’o’sonic one skinner o’rootie i can see a blaze ?????


    like bobby byrd ‘i know you got soul, if you didn’t you wouldn’t be in here…’
    okay okay ‘i know ya’ all got Sole…’

    turn it up, let it loose,
    jump back and hug-yo-selves

    Yeeee haaaawwww!

  57. “For the time being, it might be worthwhile to give the compliments. Who knows to the receiving end one compliment so ‘nonchalantly left’ might be the only thing that stops them from jumping from the 22nd floor.”

    But the metaphorical 22nd floor is:

    ‘celebrate life’ and ‘photografia’, DAH’s loft, Tor capa and all our babies, Katie’s baby, Katie’s pilates rubber band, my spacecowbo’s gps, civilian’s keys, anton’s coffee, panos’ mop, patricia’s mirror, dbowen’s music, akaky’s irl and smelly city, mcgowan’s secondhand bike, herve’s new bike, bblack’s manuscript, haik’s boxing gloves, cathy’s triptix, angela’s zebra, lassal’s hunter, brian’s flies, audrey’s French orange juice, gina’s shyness, wendy’s poetry, marcin’s second home, andrewb’s pills, young tom’s tumbleweed, dimitri’s neighbors, erica’s pansies, powers’ newspaper, chris’ boogeyboard, ben’s bricks, maria’s white tape, bodo’s internet, etcetera etcetera

    We take the elevator up, after taking care of all daytime business and choose to mingle and choose to share or choose to be alone and drink bourbon to ourselves or choose to lean over, over the city that we’ve just left … and just look.

    We stay and hang out or we let go of what we now have, of what is comfortable.
    Such is what we are bound to document… LIFE… not only to tell the world but ourselves and the ones around us that we have been to the 22nd floor and some time later on we can all come back to it and see etched on the wall with grime, dust and soot: “Burn was here”

  58. Goose pimples Gracie, Goose pimples…
    even in zero gravity…

    damn ma visors all steamed up…

    got me thinking ’bout a 22nd floor fly-by,
    yep! a global 22nd floor fly-by in ma schooner…

    once round the block, loop the loop and back out into orbit…
    d’ya think i can make it???

    heck i’d give a shot, see all them faces looking up, all smiley and curious…


    1/5000th of a second

    Yeeee haaaawwww

  59. BEN ROBERTS! :))))))))))

    BIG CONGRATULATIONS!!!!….that’s a brilliant award (and brilliant snap, like a still from Clockwork + 1984)….and my god, will it take a private email from David (and me as backup) to get you to submit….

    that’s some major currency and some major kudos…and, well deserved! but with that kind of coin in the pocket, i think you’ve got duties for the pints! ;)))))

    congratulations Ben that’s terrific news.

    And thank you Joe for letting us know!…by the way, i LOVED the sports commentator metaphor….brilliant and spot on as always…especially poignant that John Madden is giving up the booth…

    hugs all


  60. Patricia Le Dorsey, just looked at your website: you’ve been busy! Loved Dualities – will look more later.

    Good light,


  61. This has nothing to do with anything that’s been said here; I just need to share my frustration with folks who will probably understand.

    Yesterday I received copies of the May issue of a magazine that published nine images and text from my “Falling Into Place” essay. I’d been delighted that the editors of this mag–probably the most significant disability magazine in the US–had been receptive to my work when I submitted it cold a couple of months ago. I’d met my deadline and had even negotiated what felt to me like fair payment.

    So why am I feeling blue? Because the photos came up looking way too dark, at least to my eyes. And I know it was my own fault because I hadn’t taken into account that photos always look darker in print than they do on my at-that-time uncalibrated monitor. 99% of my photos appear online rather than in print so I’m apt to forget that little fact.

    Have others had this kind of experience, where you’re disappointed at the quality of your photos printed in magazines or newspapers? Maybe I just want to hear that I’m not alone in this.

    But at least I learned a BIG lesson! My new monitor calibration software should arrive any day now. And thank god I learned this lesson before I’d ordered my Blurb book. Why oh why can’t we learn from our successes instead of our failures??!!

    Patricia who’s going out for a scoot on this beautiful sunny day

  62. patricia. I tend to stick an adjustment curve on anything thats going out to an outside printer/agency.
    From my own experience I tend to find about a 1/2 -2/3 stop darkening can occur, mainly in shadow areas.
    Therefore I put an adjustment layer (curve) on all files and lighten mainly the shadow end by about that much (mainly by eye, looking at the monitor, preview on-preview off kind of thing) I do make sure though that the curve adjustment is something I can live with in the instances (sods law) where the prints actually come out as they looked on my system. in most cases a lifting of shadow detail of half a stop or so is WAY preferable to muddy blockedness. Hope that helps.
    Sorry everyone for the techie blah (also, thats just how I do it, and not neccessarily the RIGHT way).
    And YES it Happened to me more than once and it does SUCK

  63. John, very VERY helpful tips! Thanks so much for responding.

    Funny thing happened while I was sitting by the water and letting it do what it does best…soothe my rumpled feelings. I suddenly realized I needed to get past my disappointment about the quality of my photos and look at the larger picture, pun intended. Whether or not the images show up as I’d hoped, this essay still has a chance to change readers’ views of what it means to live with a disability. The captions tell the story as much as the photos. I started thinking about someone newly diagnosed with MS or a formerly active woman or man who had suddenly become a paraplegic in a car crash or some other accident. Maybe seeing me working out at the gym and hearing how I traveled to Beirut by myself even though I uuse a scooter might give them hope that they too can have a full life no matter what.

    Anyway, I’m feeling much more settled in my mind about the whole thing. Yes, I’ve learned an important lesson but all is not lost. The essay can still make a difference.



    you will ALWAYS be disappointed with reproduction unless you are in on the production process…for anything really important you must be around for the whole deal….just sending material out and hoping it will come out right, just isn’t going to happen….i do not know about John’s technique , but i think the only way to guarantee good reproduction is to have either a “to match” print or a “to match” transparency for the printer to go by..i am assuming you know NEVER to send a raw file to anybody….anything other than something “to match” is just guesswork on the printer’s part any way you look at it…you MUST also have a calibrated monitor, otherwise all bets are off…with a Blurb book you should definitely buy only one copy first to see how it looks…you may later , for the remaining copies, have to make some adjustments…

    cheers, david

  65. now THAT is a lobfest!!

    would there ever be a “how to” portion of BURN?
    there’s a wealth of knowhow here that im sure could be tapped for techie stuff
    and simple stupid stuff..

  66. Patricia, “I started thinking about someone newly diagnosed with MS or a formerly active woman or man who had suddenly become a paraplegic in a car crash or some other accident. Maybe seeing me working out at the gym and hearing how I traveled to Beirut by myself even though I uuse a scooter might give them hope that they too can have a full life no matter what.”.

    I’m sure that Falling into Place will (has) helped many. I am reminded of a man I used to work with. My friend Jim. I think that i have mentioned Jim before but his story will bear repeating. Jim was paraplegic, as were others (Hi Kev) where I worked. He had been shot in the back with a shotgun (at about 12 years old) by his friend while they were playing with the friend’s dad’s gun. A terrible accident. By the time I met Jim he was on top of his condition. Always a sportsman, he played wheelchair fencing (represented Britain at the Olympics), wheelchair basketball, tennis etc! He was happily married and living life to the full. But to get to where he was I could tell that he had endured much heartache.

    My point in telling you this is that, like you, Jim thought of others new to his situation. Whenever he had to attend the Spinal Injuries hospital he would make a point of talking to new patients and letting them know that there was life after disability. He was a true gentleman and I am the better for having met the man. Jim died a few years ago on a trip to America during a solo flight of an aircraft. A bloody airplane!

    Patricia, your concern for others in your situation does you credit but is no more than we here expect of you. When your book comes out it should be required reading for those newly diagnosed with MS – and quite rightly too!

    Best wishes,


  67. GRACIE…

    good question..from my beginnings at online publishing, i felt strongly that the tech side of photography would not be a part of Burn…most photo magazines and websites over emphasize technique, so i wanted to go more for the emotional “why to” and less of the camera “how to”…you will notice that i never mention specific cameras, lenses, etc. because too many photographers think that technique is the “answer”…

    obviously one does need some tech expertise..but, not much…a disposable camera is all you need to be a photographer…..i say, learn to love music first, learn how to play one song second, then maybe maybe learn the notes….

    cheers, david

  68. Joe :)))

    yes, it’s good and i miss it too…it’s the big change: no computer/internet after school…so, im not as ‘manic’ about all this ;)))…and i’ve let go of trying to be whatever it was i was trying to be here, writer/educator/goofball…just want to create good work here and foster chat…and maybe even take off that old over-worn white cowboy hat ;))))…anyway, i’d overpersonalize everything last couple months…but, now im in a very good place: at night writing writing, family family, photo photo and no computer :)))…

    raise high the roofbeams for Burn :))

    hugs/running now for the day/night…


  69. Patricia,
    I understand your frustration only too well. My photography teacher once said to me: taking good pictures is one thing, getting a good magazine or newspaper to publish it is another story and to have it all look real good is almost like a miracle.
    Most of the time it is rather disappointing for the photographer to see how editors or layout people handle images. Sometimes they print your images the size of a stamp, sometimes they crop, sometimes they have your name spelled wrong, sometimes images are too bright, too dark, some have a colour cast, some even have wild Photoshop manipulation. This has all happened to me – even with reputed magazines and papers!
    And the paper I work for most of the time, now uses an automatic function to balance everything in an image: light, colour, contast, sharpness – you name it. Well, an automatic fuction is convenient, it saves money and you need no skilled people anymore to do the job. But the results are appauling and many times I wish my name wouldn’t be under the image, simply because it was printed so bad.
    Even with book projects, when you can control much of the process, things can go wrong. And the disappointment is simply huge when after all the efforts you made, the result don’t match your expectations.
    But you cannot be angry too much about it, this won’t get you nowhere, only frustraed. You need your energy for your new project!
    Today I discovered a turtle in my pond – sunbathing. It actually comes from North America and is not endemic in Germany, it is a Red-Eared Slider (Trachemys scripta elegans). Perhaps photographers need something the turtle has: a good shield!
    Patricia, tomorrow the sun will shine again!

  70. I’m starting to get this stupid vibe that what’s up here is a sexy babe snap, every so few woe is me stories. They don’t mix for me, DUH. Either do a sexy babe mag, or woe is me mag, but the two just don’t mix.

  71. STOOP…

    yea, this will get trashed when sober too..who called it art?? this ICP student just happens to be my next door neighbor and why would i cry “woe is me”??? i was just being friendly…

    cheers, david

  72. STOOP…

    thanks…me too…you have no idea how many stoooopidly bad pictures i have taken…..shame shame…but, i think you really would benefit from one of Maria’s pro-hugs…..

    love back

  73. Look, we all take way too many stupid pictures and make very few keepers. Ain’t the point. Honestly. Get with it. Keep pulling out only the best of the best, like I know you can, and please, leave the sexy fluff.

  74. Somehow it is a HUGE comfort to know that my magazine printing experience is more the norm than the exception. Misery loves company and all that.

    David, your specific advice is invaluable. I’d never heard or read about the importance of sending a print in hard copy to aid the printer in knowing what you want. So often these days we send our images via the internet and have NO idea how they will look in print. Whenever I submit work to magazines from now on, I will take the time to send my images on a CD along with 4×6 prints that show how I want these images to look. And don’t worry, I never send raw files anyplace. Regarding a monitor calibrator, I have ordered the Spyder3 and am waiting for it to arrive before I finish the Burb book. So much to learn!

    Mike R, thanks so much for telling us about your buddy Jim. His attitude towards life is a model for all to emulate, not just those of us who live with a disability. I’m so sorry to hear of his untimely death. And I am touched by your confidence that my book will make a difference. That is my hope.

    Reimar, I’m sorry to hear about your ongoing struggle to have your photos printed properly in the newspaper for which you work. How frustrating! And having seen many of your photos on your website, they deserve the best. I love yor work.

    Thanks to everyone for responding to my post. It sure is a gift to be part of this community.


  75. I would say that there are probably a lot of emerging photographers out there who would love to be able to reach the level of David’s “unsuccessful snaps.” I would also say that this is David’s ship and he can steer it in any direction he wants.

    OK, that is enough sucking up. And for the record, I have seen a lot of more out of focus images with bad color balance that have been called brilliant art.

    I think the image is fine and it works for what it is. Jeeze!

  76. A Civilian- mass audience

    GONGRATULATIONS TO ALL ( the above, you know)
    I will be on mission,mission commission again…

    “City in mourning” TODAY I drink , I drink for our DEAD.
    VIVA we love you ALL.

    P.S PLEASE, Don’t try this at home …
    Viva photografia!

  77. “…from now on i promise to never again reveal my unsuccessful snaps…”

    Stoop, David,

    Why you do this to me??
    Why you want to take my pleaseure away??
    Most of snaps are unsuccessful..,
    Thats why there are successful!

    Now you have to promise to ME that you will reveal MORE your unsuccessful and successful snaps!

    …promise or… or…. I will never come back!!…
    … ok, that’s was stupid blackmail…
    …who belive I will never come back…
    … ok… I will come back when I will know how to blackmail you…

  78. ahahahaha – Marcin – no one knows how to blackmail or blackemail David :-)

    Mass petitions also don’t work – proven recently on this blog.


  79. A civilian-mass audience


    What about fed-ex some laxanontolmadakia to his door ???
    Marcin you are right : We want MORE of your unsuccessful and successful snaps!

    MR.DAHY is Emerging :)))))

  80. Civil – you have to fedex it to me for me to fedex it to panos in salvador so he can fedex it to Jim Powers in Texas that will pass it to DAH over a cold beer this summertime.( is it liquid? can we mix it with cold beer? just asking). Is it canned? can Jim use the can to pleasure shoot at it?

    canned traveling laxanontolmadakia, Civilian.

  81. A civilian-mass audience


    ” YOU MADE ME STAY ” too !!!
    laughing like there is no tomorrow :)))):)))):)))):}}}}}}}}

  82. I’m planning on sending in a submission this weekend. Still struggling with the sequence. Got some music from Moby too. Hope it makes the grade a some point.

  83. STOOP…

    geez , what’s with the lecture??? i get it , i get it…

    but ok, one more time slowly ( i am just as stubborn as you Stoop):

    (a) Maria IS my next door neighbor… this is a say “howdy” shot …final picture to come (said so in my text)…sorry for tilt , it looked straight at the time (Don Julio tequila)…sorry for magenta (neon bar sign), i do not know how to use Photoshop and (without thinking) my camera set on “shade”….mistake, mistake….

    (b) point of shot/story??? a GOOD HUG might just help us through the day…

    (c) Maria is from Switzerland, her boyfriend lives upstairs..neither her boyfriend nor her parents refer to her as “sexy fluff”….

    i WILL produce the final shot as per stated in the text….fingers crossed for your approval….now Stoop, i am smiling right now…….i hope you are too…

    hugs, david

  84. DAH :))))))…

    Our M will be just fine with ‘sexy fluff’ when u arrive…tilt away ;))))

    STOOP: ….i think DAH needs to be appointed honorary board member of SPA, yes? :)))


  85. DAVID B…

    moving stuff today….i mean as in this is one of those packing boxes , lifting furniture kinds of days and rolling down the highway in a cargo van with the music blasting with Mike and my buddy Tony “Skater” (pro skate boarder) helping out and six or seven or eight or nine hours later we will end up at my home….in other words amigo, i cannot edit with you today…over the weekend i must write a forward for Patricia’s book and then and then we can edit again….cool????

    hugs for Tor Capa and Beate….


    i would love to photograph Marina….will do in Toronto next week???

    cheers, hugs, david

  86. Oh for Pete’s sake… literally

    The photo is fine. David has no need to apologize for it. So what if the frame is tilted. So what if the balance isn’t 5600k. There are many photographers whose work I admire, and those photographers have published many images that I think are average when compared to their other work. So what? Is everything they publish supposed to be perfect and make me gaze in amazement? Please!

    David has said it is not his final image for his project. Take it for what it is and learn from it. It is just like looking at all the outtakes from one of David’s shoots. (The nightclub hip hop shoot comes to mind David) You can learn how a photographer thinks. You can learn how he sees and how that view evolves into the final product.

    Step back, look and listen and you learn something. Your not in love with the photo? So what.

    Is it David’s best? In my opinion no. There are some GREAT images in his “You Made Me Leave” project. And I am sure this will evolve into another. But I do still like it. I like it for what it is.

    David, don’t stop posting things like this. Like Bill Allard says…”Im not for everyone.” I am sure there are going to be a lot of images you show that are not for everyone, or for me. But there IS something to be learned in each.

    And that is the point. Isn’t it?

  87. STOOP :))))))…i’ll fill David in on his responsibilities when i see him in 2 weeks :)))

    DAH :)))))…she’s totally fine with that…;)), or i guess, you know that already…u arrive in 2 weeks…we’ll talk over the weekend and square the travel shit/get together…they have a FULL week schedule for y’all…lastly, check your Burn email…

    running to teach

  88. PETE….

    well, simply put, Burn is a showcase for your work..not mine….i was looking at this as a text piece, spontaneously written and published to help lighten up our crowd which had gone a little sour at the moment….a daily updated magazine is just that….raw…imperfect….perhaps pure in its own imperfection…

    funny thing, when i sometimes show my work, almost always the audience loves my imperfect early work and the imperfect contact sheets to the work where i was just so so so contemplative…my work for You Made Me Leave will be “a wrap” when the book is on your coffee table…until then, it is all just sketching…you certainly get my point and of course this particular shot does not fit the edit you saw, but is “lead up” to a final shoot….anyway, now that there is a drum roll up for this final shot, i had better make it a good one!!!

    cheers, david

  89. STOOP…

    since my ideas always come with my morning coffee, i just had one….now YOU are always welcomed as a are the ultimate UFO…known all over the net….i break “the UFO rule” for you….why??? because you are smart…not stupid….so, for you, since UFO is your WHOLE DEAL, why not log in with a fake “real name”???? your fake name could be your real name and your real fake name could be your fake real name and you could preserve your anonymity forever without having to fake it!! get my drift????

    well, fake your way over to my place sometime….pleasant times i promise….i will never know who you are, so whenever anyone new comes to my door, i will always think “could this be Stoop??”…now, that is power dude, that is power….

    ok, back to the coffee…i said i had ideas…i did not say they were always good ones….my “failure rate” has always been right up there!!!

    peace, david

  90. i want to be on SPA – i was stupid enough to freelance for cashew-nuts over many years..
    how much does it cost to join?

    david – have fun moving.. we´ll be doing the same soon to dump stuff in bergen.. 8 hour drive up the coast is actually going to be fun.

    editing whenever is grand david – there is never a stress here and i´m still stuck into it for now.. a lot to do really before grabbing you about photography again.. it´s taking shape and i´d always rather show you what i have done as opposed to ask you what to do.. so the extra time is well spent.

    on your snap above – it´s funny.. magazine clients always seemed to run with the photos i was least proud of.. not bad as such, just not what i liked.. certainly gave me a more carefree attitude towards editing for them and showing work in general.
    the book edit though – nothing in there i don´t want to represent me.. it´s good to care as much about editing again as i have always cared about taking snaps.

    you mention contact sheets david – it would be brilliant to see an old one of yours.. i love them.. seeing how a roll of film progresses is a narrative all of it´s own and in terms of showing how a photographer works – always a treat to see.

    tor capa fed n changed, beate kissed n cuddled.. it´s FRIDAY .. PUBDAY.. the sun is shining and the music is LOUD: i´m going to shuffle more photos for an hour or two then shuffle myself to the harbour.

    rack em up,
    another round,
    rack em up,
    another round
    rack em up,
    another round,
    ´cause ONE more round won´t get me down..


  91. david:

    since you’ve had a bit of java to get those pistons firing, i’m gonna let the cat out of the bag…

    STOOP is really (deep breath)….Martin Parr :))))))))))

    (but that’s a secret!)

    running for real now…


  92. David Bowen:

    well, to be a member, we must 1) first SCRUTINZIE your portfolio…for 2 minutes…2) make sure you have purchased a M-9 or plan on doing so in the near-to-far future…3) give all your fees/royalities/copyrights away, or at least to the Board…4)shoot anything for the love of god, even if you dont love god (see XTC), 5) have a framed picture of Stoop above your headboard (i do!)….6) love shooting more than whether or not you’re any good and most importantly 5) and take yourself as seriously as a cat dipped in flea bath…if you’re willing, we’d love to have ya! But, chairman Stoop has final veto power!..:)))



  93. Thanks DUH! I truly appreciate the fact that you let me post here, with this stupid name of mine. I try hard not to abuse this privilege you have bestowed upon me. But I don’t want to change my name here. Too confusing, I’m not smart enough for that. However, you can bet that one of these days when I’m in your hood, I’ll stop by. And I’ll introduce myself as stupid, the minute I walk in. Long story short, until that happens, you no longer have to wonder if the next person walking in is me or not.

  94. bob n stoop.
    i´m afraid i have spent all of my money on cheap am fujifilm.. such great saturation for nightclub background lighting, although i will make a digital pinhole leica, stamp M9 on the front and start joining in the threads on lighstalkers about said equipment..
    is the m6 TTL really not worth getting? it´s bigger? well.. i can´t abide that.
    the 8.2.. rhymes with shoots like poo.. i´ll wait for the leica underwater disposable camera.

    i have many thousands of rubbish photographs.. it´s the sign of an obsessive compulsive.. printing in my teens was more about sitting in a dark room with headphones on trying to avoid my dysfunctional family. unfortunately i also had to photograph in order to print.

    one day i would like to be a school portrait photographer.

    until then.
    yours hopefully.
    Bavid Dowen.

    BOB – stoop cannot be Parr.. he is the ghost of steichen past.

    i received ´case study´ by mikhailov through amazon on your recommendation a couple of weeks ago and have been meaning to write you both about it.. i just cannot find the words though..
    i´m devouring it almost daily.. noticing new characters.. feeling new reactions rise.. i am getting my head around it, and more importantly the place in time in represents.. and i´d be lying if i said i was at the point i could conclude anything..
    warmth, astonishment and respect through to anger, and much much more..
    i´m really glad for the recommendation and can see why you mentioned it stoop..

    this past year or three since being in touch with david through lightstalkers, then road trips and now burn has blown wide my perception of photography.. cannot overstate that one.

    and DAVID AH.
    great – superb.. franks storylines contacts fascinate me.. and watching a documentary many years ago about salgardo is where i learn´t to shoot three or four photos for each perceived possibility..

    thanks as usual amigo.. the most accommodating of hosts, you are.


    ever had a conversation with someone for over an hour before you realize you have not even asked what their name is / what they do / placed them in a prepared box in your head..?

    it can be the best.. it´s real conversation /fun.. it´s what we are for.. communicating without condition is an ear opener and you know – if you don´t like whats being said, don´t respond..

    listen to everyone and do not feel compelled to reply to anyone and things go easier i think..

  96. Kathleen Fonseca

    Hey Stupid..i find your name absolutely liberating. For once in our politically correct lives we can call somebody Stupid without getting our metaphorical faces bashed in. The stupid thing is that i never have a reason to talk to you so don´t get the chance. So, that´s why i´m writing to say hey Stupid, thanks for your far from stupid comments, your intriguing blog (i just watched the ¨developing in coffee tutorial) and the chance to just roll the word stupid off my tongue completely guilt free. Now that would be as good as eating pie de limon without the calories. So glad you´re here :)



  97. stoop – i remember spa´s conception on lightstalkers.. have always aspired to spa.. it´s why i photograph although i didn´t know for many years.. retrospectively i have been shooting only for the agency since i have held a camera.. it´s my goal.. i have been a spastalker.

    ´case study´ came accross as an intellectual and ethical mind-fuck at first.. i looked at the photos before i read a word.. then again.. a good few hours just with the photos.. built up what i thought i saw going on and then read boris and it all changed.. and it still changes..

    deepest thanks and gratitude..

  98. Kathleen Fonseca

    Boris Mikhailov..amazingamazingamazing..have always loved his rectangular fisheye shots done on the street..what stories they told! Problem is i have never seen enough of his work..maybe will get the book..thanks for the mention!


  99. A civilian-mass audience

    OK , I got it ,


    I put magnetic paint on your walls, I broke my delicate civilian fingers to make your KEYS, I buy your burb books like crazy,I e-mail other civilians to come and check you out… I read all your references, even this guy ,BORIS MIKHAILOV, oime…
    And What I hear “STOOP , you are the ultimate UFO …!!!

    THE worst, Check this out:
    there is a new place … THE SPA ZONE…you have to break a leg to get in…
    JIM you are right, this thread has to go…

    P.S By the way how much is the membership …??
    I’LL be back

  100. The stupid membership is an arm and a leg, but the scarf is free. You do have to pre-order the Lieca M9, though, guaranteed to come out by 2999. If you have to ask how much it costs, you can’t afford it.

  101. A civilian-mass audience

    CAN we have a new photo essay !!!
    Good energy please Mr. HARVEY is moving …
    Did someone offer to help him …HELLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOO… ANY Civilians available

    No NEED To REPLy

  102. A civilian-mass audience

    STOOP I bet if I put the Energy I will make it

    Hmmmm!! 2999 ..I guess not…LOVE you stop-id

  103. DAVID B/STOOP :))))

    David I AM SO SO happy you’ve gotten Case History….that books, as u know, sits in a place of honor…it breaks me each time…and when you have a chance, check out his “Unfinished Disertation”…but Case is in a league by itself!…

    CIVILIAN :))

    dont blink, or you’ll miss essays soonest ;)))


  104. A civilian-mass audience

    BOBBY ,

    WHAT AN EDITOR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I count on you… gobsmacked us …!!

    My man , Marina is really “красивейше как стихотворение” **
    Lucky you…and Dimas stay strong…if you know what I mean…
    Can I blink now, can I ???

    Spacec-xo, Kat-xo, My Gracie-xo, Tor capa & B-xo, Jim-xo, John-xo ………………………

    ** beautiful like a poem…

  105. tor capa is going to join spa.. i´m having him modified with a titanium add-on.. the leica M9 baby-snap.
    it means removing part of his brain, and although that will leave him without the powers of speak and saliva control, he will be able to shoot most viscerally what he feels..
    which will mostly be and outsider.
    like his pappa.

    dissertation looks good.. i got a flyer for it with case history..
    i think it will aid my school portrait business no end.. i´ll be the talk of suburbia.. the biggest noodle in the puddle.

    must rest..
    must reset

    friday peace to all.. tor capa and i are hitting the bar by the harbour.. all in stavanger welcome.

  106. heyyyyy

    i just thought about it…
    sexy fluff
    major dancing skills

    ayyyy… carrrramba!!

  107. A civilian-mass audience

    WHERE is everyone ???

    New ESSAY is coming and they all ZZZZZZZZZZ before they BEEEEEE !!!

  108. A civilian-mass audience

    OIME OIME , CHARLES your key is ready

    I AM GLAD that Felix has already a role …Did anyone told you about the Greek Philosophers…
    I am not gonna start because they will boooo me out of here but if and when you will have 3 sec you might wanna check “TIMES AND TIMING” the huge posting with many many names.

    WELL, here we have it

    FELIX ( the baby) AS Bellerophon

    P.S Take care the mama…Felix seems FINE but you know how women can be…LOVE AND KISSES

  109. As a nominee member of SPA (I have the scarf, but not the Lieca M9 or the secret decoder ring yet), what I want to know is this: is photoshopping the zits out of high school graduation photographs a breach of photojournalistic ethics?

  110. akaky

    yes, it is.
    i want truth from my school portrait shoots..
    zits.. fighting.. smells.. hormones.. you said, she said, but i never said, i know you did said… yeah whatever.. yeah, yeah, talk to the spam.

    that´s what i want my school portrait photos to say.

    very, very drunk..

  111. felix and tor capa paint the towm brown..

    i can see it..

    while pappa charles and pappa david reminisce on less sober times, rockin da bells with cultural zeitguist fuckwits.


  112. CIVILIAN,

    So nice – alas we are spoken for in a million pound flat in Primrose Hill. But we all must meet down at the pub for Sunday Roast – my favorite British pastime as cliche as it is there’s nothing like it (pub dependent of course). Hmmm, Bellerophon the slayer of the Chimera – will have to muse over that one. You do know Felix’s middle name is Mars.

    DAVID B.

    Of course SOBER is what you make it! But yes, good times were had, and more to come… I don’t drink much these days, but damn I’m a sucker for Magners!

  113. Charles – Felix is mean, man :). Driving through LA to Psalms springs :) ?

    Take some tilted photos for SPA exhibition – the condition to enter is to tilt the body not the camera – you will have no problem :).

  114. A civilian-mass audience


    Mars, the Roman god of war.
    Bellerophon was a hero of Greek mythology, he was “the greatest hero and slayer of monsters
    Felix (Latin for “happy” or “lucky”) is a male given name

    HAIK you are right . NOW the PETERSON family can travel “THE World” !!

    Same as the BOWEN …!!! Good Energy from all the READERS (worldwide) !!!!!!

    VIVA BURNIANS … MY essay is NEXT !!! ( I am Joking) :)))))))))))))))))))

  115. A civilian-mass audience


    Last One:

    Mia Farrow (younger edision) as MARIA BURNS.

    OK LOVE and Hugs and Kisses and WHATEVER …………………..

  116. Haik,

    No, flying direct from Seattle (7:00 am flight – ouch). Kind of a frivolous trip but we thought that a good tester for the bigger stuff to come. Plus some pool time never hurts for us Seattle-ites!


  117. panos skoulidas

    All this time I was hijacking..
    What a word..
    Anyway… Talking about guns…
    I’m glad I figured that early enough ( I hope )
    before the Burn “police” will go after me..
    Think twice someone said…
    You’re an “insider” someone else cried ….
    If you’re Davids friend keep it quiet someone else added..
    Stay “guilty” my priest yelled…
    “Fuck of” my horsie , winked..
    And as Buddha very honestly admitted..
    “jealousy” is sin …
    We are ALL Little Buddhas..
    Connected to the big Terminal..
    Collective conciousness .. some call it GOD..
    Viva USA… as Canned Heat once said..( Going up the country )

  118. panos skoulidas

    Your number 4)… Tilted, vertical balloni..
    First gave me the creeps then made me laugh…
    What’s next…??!!!!
    (… and it’s all about the money .. someone else said..)

    .. They also said that when one is in the bus..
    One yells to the bus driver then.. Close the door.. Bus is full.. Hypocrisy to
    the fullest or just human nature ..

    Ahh, nothing worst than the “insiders”…
    Ohhh wait a minute..
    There is worst..:)
    The “outsider” that just became an “insider”…

  119. panos skoulidas

    David B,
    I hear you .. UFO’s are liberating..
    Have you noticed what the
    recent UFO’s here have in common?
    They don’t shoot.. They are not photographers..
    So far only CIVILIAN
    Has the balls and the honesty to admit it..
    The rest of the stupids and all kind of insects UFO’s
    Have a reason to hide their real names..
    No real work…

    Anyways… Morning y’all from “sexy fluffy” Las Vegas
    Ps: (“sexy fluff”…!!!?… So insulting…jee..
    Ok..moving on…)

  120. Assumptions based on perceptions. Nothing like them. Panos, I’ve been a stupid photographer for half my life. I don’t know you, but it would not surprise me to find out you’re younger than the time I’ve been at it. Didn’t mean to be “insulting.” Pointedly stupid? Always.

  121. If you doubt my stupid word, easy way to test it. Drop me an email with some technical question only a working photographer would be able to answer. Gear, light, digi, film, you name it. stupidphotog at aol dot com.

  122. A civilian-mass audience


    I just checked out the website :

    THANK YOU MR.STEVE WINTER for giving us the “front row seat next to you”
    ( see Bobb’s post for the link on amur Leopard…)

    Come on everyone…ENJOY !!!
    Mr. Jim ,is “Amur Leopard” your cup of tea ???

  123. panos skoulidas

    Hey Stoop ,
    Thanks for your address and invitation..
    Check your mail…
    Ok y’all ..
    Again morning from filthy Vegas..

  124. A civilian-mass audience

    TO ALL

    The Amur (Far Eastern) leopard, Panthera Pardus Orientalis, is the rarest big cat in the world and yet is still a relatively unknown species of leopard outside of its homeland in Russia.

    Maybe that link can help …??

  125. Beneath the Valley of the Fly

    Hey Bong Hit,

    You know my background and my commitment to photography, the degrees, who I studied with, that I did work as a pro. Sure, it was pornography, but still. I can photoshop the zits of a pornstar’s ass better than anyone here.

    Manipulate the forum as much as you want, you have a junkie’s gift for doing just that. Just don’t lie about me as you do it, numbnuts.

  126. You know what? Coming back here, over and over, to see what’s up, and seeing that sexy fluffy, too soft, too tungsten, tilled picture, over and over, has made it grow on me! AARGH! How stupid am I?

  127. A Civilian- mass audience

    TODAY, I wish, I WISH I AM Harry Andrington or
    Shall I say Andrew Harrington…?

    My feisty KATIE …for you, and where the heck is MY GRACIE ????????
    WE all know that MR. DAH is chasing tumbleweeds :))))

    Where is Everyone???
    Today we are “chasing” leopards with HARRY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    P.S Stoop, Panos, Haik …I thought I am DA MANNN
    OK lAUGH but DON”T blink (said Bobby)
    Yeeeeeeeeee haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Space… baby

  128. A Civilian- mass audience


    Do we have to pay an arm and a leg to post there…

    I LOVE the photos…but is it like the SPA thing… Do I have to buy something like K9, M9
    Can Civilians and readers and BURNians from all over the world post too…???
    I hope I am not sound that stupid :)))

    Please Do Reply … if it’s possible !

  129. panos skoulidas

    Haik actually created this blog..
    Originally it was Katharinas idea and the name
    is invented by our AUDREY..
    ( Audrey merci..!!!)
    Now everyone is welcomed to post anything… They like..
    It’s an non exclusive club that includes everybody..
    The name is:
    it’s simple to participate..
    Just email
    Your photo to the following email address and voilà..
    Your photo will be posted in a second or two..
    Email address is:

    Thank you all..:)

  130. panos skoulidas

    Thank you CIVI for asking
    You’re a good guy..
    Everyone here loves you..
    I don’t know how u do it..!!!??
    I’m jealous..
    You’re the most popular kid in this class…

  131. Kathleen Fonseca

    who said Mano Negra..hmm…dialing my ipod to mano babeee…thanks Panos for the mention..

    hey, Stu’…stupid is as stupid know you is to love you..

    Civi’, Panos said it, EVERYBODY loves ARE Da Man..da Mano Chau da Mano Negra or just plain da Mano Derecha..heh..

    i was out shooting alllllllll was sublime, the company was, uh, very interesting..spent large amount of time shooting a bunch of kids from the “Sexual Diversity Club” just chilling in the park. We played Hot Potato. Whoever lost had to do a “castigo” determined by the group. Like go up to some girl and tell them they were ‘guapa’. Or walk over to the kiosk holding hands..They let me make the rules…heeehee..great photos of sweet discreet touching and nudging and flirting between them..what a frigging interesting thing it is to shoot the street. You never ever ever know what you’re gonna end up doing. Hot Potato with a slew of gay boys. Nicest kids in the world. How lucky was that?

    Right on the Money Bob. Sounds like a band, Panos.

    well, time to scan the donuts.

    love ya all

  132. Kathleen Fonseca

    Gracie..girl, i miss you. Who’s the one missing in action? Me or you? The late night ain’t the same without your sweet vowels dreamily checking in..i hope you’re good..hope you’re happily mixing metaphors somewhere blessed by your ethereal presence..

    your friend

  133. A civilian-mass audience

    TODAY BOB BLACK is DA MAN !!!!!!


    Be jealous Mr.PANOS because if you keep posting here ,pretty soon you will be like the amur leopards…
    (to be perceived as a joke):)
    Please, NO offense to the beautiful CATS…

    KATIE…an amur tiger
    “Hot Potato” !!!
    Let’s call the essay you will submit here HOT POTATO !!!

    My GRACIE is busy writing the BURN poems …
    “The progress of an artist is a continual self-sacrifice, a continual extinction of personality.”
    T. S. Eliot

    TO ALL…
    Please, wash your hands thoroughly ( if we don’t want to end up like amur LEOPARDS) No Joking.

  134. Kathleen Fonseca

    Civilian…check out Converses’s a blast!

    heh, Hot Potato..i like that a lot actually..hmmm

    nice quote by TS Eliot..hope Your Gracie is coming back..boohoo!


  135. Two weird things about human nature,

    Conundrum one: why do we always want what we don’t have, but we don’t want to be forced to have what we didn’t ask for?… hmmm.

    the web is the silver bullet to this conundrum, if you want more information it takes less than a French-fry of nutrition to exert the energy needed to move the mouse to click a link, it takes less than a sip of a chocolate milk shake to actually deliver some keystrokes into the google input box and click ‘go‘. If you can’t exert that much energy to find out more about any interesting term, then you’re likely to do nothing about it anyway when it is handed to you, maybe just stick to woofing down some big macs, at least it will keep your mouth occupied.

    Conundrum two: Why do things we don’t like tend to grow on us? Why do the things we like right away (say a song or dare I say, an image) become boring, but things we don’t like at first sometimes begin to ‘grow’ on us?

    Don’t really have any good ideas about this one, but safe to say the phenomena exists. maybe images grow on us because there is some merit to the image that is not obvious on the first read, maybe it’s just incidental to the actual initial message, something as simple as a visual rhyme between say the duplicity of a set of eyes and a set of bicycle wheels, don’t know really, but some images have staying power and they aren’t always the ones that we like at first, and are often ones that you might hear or say, hmm this image is starting to grow on me.

  136. panos skoulidas

    I hear u CIVI….
    the Burn police is out there watching…
    I will follow that leopards fate soon..
    I know..
    But didn’t someone said..
    oh I forgot who he was…:))
    Must have been some kinda teacher in highschool..
    Corona for all…

  137. Why do I keep getting the feeling that 1000 + photogs are anxiously clicking on their Burn bookmark several times a day to see if the names of the 10 EPF finalists have been posted yet? It’s like this current of redhot electricity is running beneath the surface, visible only when you turn out the lights and watch for the sparks. No one speaks of it but everyone thinks of it, even those of us who did not submit work to this DAH-inspired gift to the world of photography.

    As one who has no vested interest in the results of EPF 2009, I send well wishes to all of those who submitted work this year. I too await the posting of the 10 finalists and trust that when those names appear, everyone will be gracious in their response. We are ALL winners here…


  138. hi katie-cakes and civi-da man

    thanks for making me feel use-full. hmmm, i dont really see BURN as a day care center or a freebie psychoanalytikk place but it’s free… free is good nowadays.

    i have been feeling extremely tired and ummm… spent with NO money involved.
    don’t you ever feel that way sometimes? when no one has ANYTHING to say that makes you feel better?
    i dont think ive ever come close to the 22nd floor and hope that i never will,
    i like people and life so much more. but it seems it’s takin a lot of energy to realize
    that i can be TIRED and talk about it at the same time. but that’s what’s been going on…

    it is taking a whole 99cents french fries (!) to take a picture
    but i DID for about 3 hours yesterday of kids in the park and leaves and bugs
    but i think i would have to eat about TEN whole big macs it seems, to write…

    and panos, i aint burn police but i had much to say to you …las vegas :))) weather perfect.
    but i havent eaten a single bite of the first bigmac yet

    so to ALL, when you get this way:
    what do you do?
    what can somebody else say to get you out of your own friggin-slow-paced bad place?
    do you shoot, write, eat or drink… or?

  139. A civilian-mass audience


    “Sometimes being a friend means mastering the art of timing. There is a time for silence. A time to let go and allow people to hurl themselves into their own destiny. And a time to prepare to pick up the pieces when it’s all over.”

    Gloria Naylor (African-American novelist and educator, 1950)

    AFTER the results of the EPF 2009 we will be here for all of the photographers. We will have the trama center OPEN…:)
    YES, As PAT said : ” YOU ARE ALL WINNERS” here and there………….

    P.S take some vitamins, eat olive oil and drink little wine …and sex whenever possible…and laugh…laugh like there is NO tomorrow…

  140. A civilian-mass audience

    TO ALL…

    Here MY two Euros…


  141. Kathleen Fonseca

    Hi Gracie


    Welcome to the human race, chica! Ya know, it’s not like all you have to do is get up in the morning and take a picture or write a poem. You have a whole ton of things that comes first. Your ton is different from my ton but a ton is a ton is a ton. We don’t always have the mental or physical or EMOTIONAL energy to get around to what actually feeds our soul. We give everything to the world and the world just sucks us dry. But i think it’s not how much you write or shoot from day to day or week to week but over the long haul. And over the long haul a week or a month or two months of being in a vegetative state is totally insignificant.

    I used to wonder how artists and writers had so much time to sit around the bistros in Paris getting sloshed and still managed to kick creative ass. Then i found out they did a lot of drugs and drank a lot of coffee :) I carve out some time relentlessly. And if it doesn’t work out that way. If i can’t or just don’t want to, well, that’s good too. I leave it alone. Watch TV, hang out with friends, or, um, well, shop. Then when i literally start dreaming about photography, when that little worm starts turning turning, as it always does, then i know it’s time to get back to work.

    Listen to what your body and your heart and your mind is saying, Gracie. If you need a rest, then for heaven’s sake, take it. We’re all here waiting for you. You’ll be back when you’re ready and feel strong enough again. Till then, take heart, the muse, like the tide, always rolls back in.


  142. Kathleen Fonseca


    GREAT ADVICE, comforting words, brilliant and beautiful quote!

    besos marinated in olive oil

  143. ayys katie,
    that is exactly the problem
    ‘a whole ton of things have to come first’
    all i want to do is photograph or write
    no energy to do either.

    but hmmm, shop? ice cream?
    ill give both a try…

    you ARE my shore… thanks
    i’ll be back

  144. A civilian-mass audience


    Everyone WE need to FOCUS .WE need to send good energy to the BURN’S muse.


    P.S KAT , we got to stay strong , She promised she will be back …

  145. “Why do I keep getting the feeling that 1000 + photogs are anxiously clicking on their Burn bookmark several times a day to see if the names of the 10 EPF finalists have been posted yet? It’s like this current of redhot electricity is running beneath the surface, visible only when you turn out the lights and watch for the sparks.”

    AKAKY: Do you get that feeling?

    AKAKY IRL: What feeling?

    AKAKY: The feeling of redhot electricit running beneath the surface.

    AKAKY IRL: No.

    AKAKY: No?

    AKAKY IRL: No.

    AKAKY: Why not?

    AKAKY IRL: Because your electricity’s been turned off, stupid, that’s why. Do you think you might want to start paying your bills on time? That way we can all feel the red hot electricity and turn the air conditioning on.

    AKAKY: I thought things were looking kind of dark around here last night.

    AKAKY IRL: Not having the lights on will do that, smart guy. Maybe you ought to call Central Hudson in the morning just for laughs and see about getting the juice turned on again.

    AKAKY: I should, shouldnt I?

    AKAKY IRL: You should. Definitely.

    AKAKY: Okay, that’s what I’ll do. What do you think?

    AKAKY IRL: Sounds like a plan to me. And why didnt you pay the electric bill in the first place, or should I bother to ask?

    AKAKY: I forgot.

    AKAKY IRL: You forgot…you know, I worry about you sometimes, bubba. It’s not natural for someone as smart as everyone tells me you are to be such a complete dolt.

    AKAKY: Life’s unfair.

    AKAKY IRL: Tell me about it.

  146. A civilian-mass audience

    AND now EVERYONE ,


    “No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path.”

    It took me 30 minutes… to watch the essay and I haven’t blinked since…

  147. Panos, just saw a photo of you without the bandana on your head. Wow, you have hair. I had always assumed you were, errrr, balding, uhhhm, not that there is anything wrong with that, but … okay gotta run. See ya, peace.

  148. A civilian-mass audience

    I live in MY ‘CREST HOTEL” ;

    AND YES I am BOLD and beautiful !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  149. at the risk of taking this far astern, i wish to share David Foster Wallace’s 2005 commencement address at Kenyon College…which has recently, post his death, been churned into a small book…

    it probably both more articulate and lengthenier (believe it or not) than anything i’ve tried to write or aruge here since the inception of BURN…something i was reminded again yesterday, sifting through the comments of The Crest Hotel…

    for what’s it worth…


  150. Bob, thank you for that, excellent and something I’m always trying to explain to people and at which I usually fail unless of course they are already part of the crowd. My brother graduated from Kenyon btw, English Lit, loved it. Now he’s a nuclear engineer. Strange … but i understand. ;-))

  151. A civilian-mass audience

    When I read BOB BLACK
    I feel that I can conquer the world.

    When I read BURN
    I feel that I am the WORLD !!!

    P.S Young Tom, Nuclear engineer…Gobsmacked again and again and again

  152. A civilian-mass audience

    MR.HARVEY is back ,

    and after the two days moving (short vacation) HE came BACK and He raised the BAR…
    That means that whoever is short and wants to order drinks he or she is OUT of the game…

    BURNIANS the BAR is raised… COOL …I am tall and Bold …YIOUPIIII.

  153. BOB…

    the David Foster Wallace speech is just perfect…should be required reading here and everywhere…

    thanks once again for having all the right things to say at just the right time…

    cheers, david

  154. Interesting link Bob!, i can’t help but wonder if the Lighthouse, Aircraft Carrier comment made you think of the necessity of this kind of thinking, it‘s the same concept albeit with less words ;-)

    i actually thought you might like the legend as it fairs well with the self-less canadian persona and the arrogance of the americans international persona, again in the spirit of that long sp(r)each.

    if not this like-queue, what specifically made you think in Crest comments that this was the perfect time to give a thinking lesson? :-)

  155. Bob, i’ve always wanted to ask you what you think of this concept:


    you could sorta say it’s the god i pray to.

    i wonder if you’ve ever considered this concept, i can never get anyone’s opinion on this, but i suspect you might have one :-)

  156. Bob, didn’t realize the added tragic irony in your posting this. Have read this three times now. Thanks again.

  157. Bob, great speech! Thank you for sharing! If I could read faster, I would read it every morning, but… perhaps I should only think of the fish and the water ;-)
    Actually I owe you a reply: of course you and your family, Civilian, everybody is always welcome at my home – anytime! Let me fix this old mill first and get that turbine running – give me 2 years and I might be done. Right now it is only an old building, not a place to live. Just lots of work ahead.

    Joe, Weltanschauung is a big word. Of course I like to hear what you and Bob have to say about this. Is that word commonly used and understood in the English/American world?
    Personally I think Maria’s video about the “hug zone” shows a very nice way of looking at the world, her attitude towards the world! I like it a lot! Such a great idea and the video made me smile all the time! Thank you so much Maria!
    It is already late in Europe so I will rest. Tomorrow I will introduce my little students to the master of the masters: Henri Cartier-Bresson!

  158. Joe,
    did you get my email?

    Reimar is right, in German “Weltanschauung” means something rather general, coming close to “ideology”, but not specifying which one …

    What does it mean in English?

    Have not had a look at the David Foster Wallace link yet. Will do so now. Last thing today. On the official list at least.

    Good night everyone.

  159. Lassal, nope, my e-mail was last :-)

    I don’t know an english equivalent to weltanschaungg, but i bumped into first reading about a seminar on nietzche’s zarathustra, it was at the same time i was fascinated with physics, in physics there is a romantic concept: unified field theory, the ability to reconcile all meaningful forces to a simple understanding, a simple formula.

    Of course this formula is still outstanding, but so was an explanation for celestial movements before Copernicus.

    Weltanschauung for me, for human nature or the human condition, is similar to unified field theory to physics or the Copernican model of celestial movements, it suddenly reconciles all the things that are meaningful to the observer to something more simple, to something more universal at the same time, it explains things.

    weltanschanuung seems a worthy aspiration. I also think that the persistent adjustment of your own lens to alternative perspectives, or to clinically challenging ‘everything’ can undermine this destination. which is why i bring this up.

    I feel (not think) that you simply can clinically think yourself there; it’s more of a surrender I suppose, a sensitivity to symbols and sentiment that are at first personal to you, but after a while there is a universality to them.

    I mention this to Bob because Bob seems always keen for us to adjust our lens to the author’s lens, I think there is merit to this, but I also think our own lens is most important as what we feel first is real, what we are supposed to feel is a clinical effort that is sometimes just thinking for the sake of thinking, paradigm shifts in what is truth and what is not, but not necessarily meaningful truth.

    Rather than look for understanding why we’re different and feel it’s ok to be different, and to celebrate diversity, for me it’s more interesting to explore the common denominator, the average, the mean, the generalizations.

    For me photographs (two-dimensional media) and peoples attitude towards all of it is a great stomping ground to detangle the universal attitudes towards things we all have in common, second only to fairy-tales and myth, my last real hobby I suppose.

    Anyway, Bob seems all over these kinds of things, and it seems like a good time to introduce the fact that maybe it’s not so important to clinically challenge our own baggage as our own baggage may be more universal than we think.

    Anyway, I was just throwing this out there because I was also enjoying some sparring with Bob :-)

  160. David :))….my pleasure…will call you tomorrow (family situation to tackle first) so we can finalize your trip plans and other burn stuff ;))))

    Patricia/Young Tom :)))…my pleasure,…he was a remarkable writer, a remarkable thinker and just such a shame…but, i’ve loved this speech very much since i first read it a few years back :)))

    Joe :))…i’ll try to answer both of those questions, they’re good ones indeed…but no time (give me until i finish another writing assignment tonight, and i’ll leave a post tomorrow)…lots made me think of Wallace under The Crest Hotel…but DO NOT WORRY, it wasn’t because you or John criticized the work (i mean ‘criticize’ in the best, way, as discussion), but because of something with regard to awareness and observation, …how we interpret other works through our own prism or what we as photographers fail to see around us or fail to see before us..David :))….my pleasure…will call you tomorrow (family situation to tackle first) so we can finalize your trip plans and other burn stuff ;))))

    Patricia/Young Tom :)))…my pleasure,…he was a remarkable writer, a remarkable thinker and just such a shame…but, i’ve loved this speech very much since i first read it a few years back :)))

    Joe :))))))…i’ll try to answer both of those questions, they’re good ones indeed a bit later…now, no time (give me until i finish another writing assignment tonight, and i’ll leave a post tomorrow)…lots made me think of Wallace under The Crest Hotel…but DO NOT WORRY, it wasn’t because you or John criticized the work (i mean ‘criticize’ in the best, way, as discussion), but because of something with regard to awareness and observation, …how we interpret other works through our own prism or what we as photographers fail to see around us or fail to see before us….the Lighthouse vs. the Carrier ‘rumour’ is an interesting idea that came up in a book i just read called ‘Tipping Point’…Gladwell…actually, i just quickly read all 3 of his books (tipping point, blink and outliers, recommend them), about how ideas spread, how things become ‘sticky’ like rumour…same is true with criticism…when one person sees one way, the rest often quickly follow…which can also negate ‘truth’ too…anyway, i’ll write more about why i decided to show Wallace today andin the context of The Crest and all that…but dont worry, i think the most valued part of discussion is difference, to transcend our own dark skulls…and to foster awareness…mostly for ourselves…and to sense that, yea, there’s Water around us ;))))

    As for Weltanschaung, now damn, you go boy! For that alone, I WILL BUY YOU a drink when we finally meet:))))…I like your thinking Joe :)))…and i have wrestled with the word itself since university/philosophy days, but something i actually think alot about….and have tried (sometimes gently, sometimes obnoxiously ;)) ) to scribble about as it plays itself out when viewing/discussing essays/pics’sbeen something Marina and i have been talking about often over the last 2 years as we’ve been increasingly immersed in Indian philosophy/theology/cosmology….for me, it’s been a particularly agozing thing, having studied philosophy in university and breast feed a diet of western thought from the greeks up to contemporary cognitive theory, it’s been a frustrating that my own education (during university and after) had been so sorely defined by western ideas…this is particularly true (and a frustration) as a writer and photograppher…the syntax and morphology of our language, which also defines ideas, has very specific construction that is culturally-ethnically based, and how does this lead toward the weltanschauung of a particular group/society…how do we then wrestle with the strange paradox of competing ‘weltanschauungs” (can i make it plural?? :)00….as a buddhist steeped and defined by Greek and German philosophy, sprinkled with the zen seasoning, i struggle with this: the search for some common precept, or for one common way to ‘understand’ the meaning of things, the parsing of them, the structure that underlies and defines…that’s actually why i posted Wallace today…and do not worry, it wasnt because some people found ‘fault’ but this question of seeing macro/micro issues within a 15 minute ‘story’ lay at the heart of this problem…how do we begin to construct a world ‘weltanschauung”, how to we construct a weltanschaung from different weltansblahblahblah….that’s the interesting thing….part of that is what I hope to help Burn do….it is why i started writing at Road Trips 3 years ago…and why i wrote so vociferously at Burn…and what I hope to help David achieve to with burn…by bringing disparity, collision, as an opportunity to open/construct a burn ‘weltansschaung’ that each of us might, in the end, orient toward….

    i used to admire wittgenstein and nietzche and hegel and, of course, socrates/plato…and i still do, and than, some form of clarity started to come, part of which can from the recognition that i had known/been taugh so little about other cosmologies, other world views…oh, we learn…more later :))

    more later

    hugs y’all



  161. such verbosity…

    when all it is, is to recognize that we are not born to bear our burdens alone.
    we rationalize and bask in cynicism to survive our own feelings of our own inadequacies.
    we think too much and we leave out trust…

    trust in the goodness of the world
    in the goodness of other people
    and our own power and strength, singularly and collectively
    trust that we are pieces of cosmic dust meant to meet
    and that the ripples we make on the water
    will make a difference in another person we thought we may never know

  162. gracie:

    verbosity comes from typing with one hand and putting on a coat with the other…

    all that matters to me, as a point of life, can be summed up simply:

    be aware…and try to be kind…..and, oh yea, be aware….

    4 noble truths…


  163. Kathleen Fonseca

    David Foster Wallace was a professor at Pomona College where my daughter goes to school. Her friends had creative writing courses with him. A sad and great loss. He touched sooooo many with his unique genius.

    heya Gracie, heya Civilian..bizzy bizzy these days..deleriously distracted..not a bad thing sometimes :))


  164. Kathleen Fonseca


    ¨be aware…and try to be kind…..and, oh yea, be aware….

    4 noble truths…¨

    That´s two…what are the other two? Really curious. I could use some noble truths right now.


  165. i thought it was those damned crickets pushing underneath my door that were making all that noise.
    i realized it was the wheels in your head turning….

    been too moribund to do anything else other than talk serious…

    dah… seriously… you just made me smile :)))))))))

  166. David…

    I am ALL FOR IT! Honestly, I can at least tell you on behalf of the (emerging) photographers from this part of the world how much this means to us! It is one thing to continue photography to satisfy one’s creative self and urge, and it is altogether a different matter to make photography a self-sustaining process and when an opportune moment comes, to be able adopt it for life! I think your ideas will help everybody. Many thanks for creating these REAL opportunities for us in this way…Burn was already a great great opportunity for many of us and I am amazed to know that it was just the beginning!!!

    Long Live Burn :)



  167. ALL…

    three days ago i moved most of my belongings out of “the Kibbutz’, my New York home for the last four years..certainly one of THE buildings in NYC among the photography crowd and a few other crowds as well….more than a few iconic photographers live there , along with some internationally known artists of all types..jazz musicians, sculptors, painters, the like…the Kibbutz is an ugly building…..but it has high ceilings and lots of light and a rooftop to die for…nobody doesn’t like the view from my rooftop…the East River takes a hard left turn going up right at the point where the Kibbutz sits near the Williamsburg Bridge…so it has the ONLY vantage point in New York where you can look all the way down to Wall Street and all the way up to Harlem..yup, the whole island up and down, all in one glance…

    the view from my loft is the view that normally only millionaires have in New York…yet i pay little, for the Kibbutz is an unimproved artists loft.. …. there are many writers here on BURN who well know that i live a spartan existence….it is too late in my professional life now for me to “make big money”…for whatever reasons (divorce did not help), i have done everything in my power to avoid ever having too much cash….i have never been out of work…but, i have consistently rejected some commercial work in favor of “doing my own thing”…and, i have not regretted this lifetime decision for one second….i would rather have the pictures than the simple as that…whatever magazine assignments i have done, and even the best ad jobs, have all pretty much been tailored to whatever personal project i was doing at the time…..simply put ,i worked for the magazines, the magazines worked for me…

    well, you may be asking , if this Kibbutz is so damn cool and you love it, why in hell would you move out??? answer: as many of you know, i found an old historic beach cottage down on the Carolina shore that is just , well, just just ME…i had sold my small apartment in Washington which i had owned for 20 yrs….sold it before the financial crises and bought the little beach cottage after the crises…so i was lucky ,not smart…so now i own by luck my dream house…with the smells and feel of where i grew up and started making my first photographs….the sea, the sea and the so sustaining for me my whole life… this house will always need repair….and the old kitchen will probably stay the old kitchen…but the fireplace draws well in winter and the wrap around porch lets you sit outside anytime, and away from wind, because there is always a leeward side…best part (then i am done) is that it fronts a 40,000 acre state park…nobody can ever build in front of me or in back of me…water to left, water to the right, dunes straight ahead….nobody can see me standing on my front porch, even though tourist area is not far away in reality..yup, t-shirt shops etc are somewhere out there over the dune line…but, never mind, i am in my own little usual…

    creating my own world has been my lifelong pursuit…as a kid i played in the dunes not far from here and made prints in my humble darkroom and dreamed of using my camera as a tool for exploration and expression…i refused to let anything interfere with that original dream…it was too powerful a dream to deny..

    so, here i am right back where i started…with the same damn dream…it will not go away….so yes yes a lot of hard work blah blah blah, but i sure feel just plain old lucky…so lucky that i feel compelled to share with others what i think are the ways to “get lucky” make photography a “life” , not just a means of technical recording…hence BURN….as i sit in my mostly broken down beach cottage right now, it totally amazes me that i am right this second communicating with so many of you…out there somewhere just over the dune line…

    communicating on line was never a dream per could it have been??…that just “happened”…and after all it is just a part of what i do anyway…BURN is some kind of reflection of my personal life, so it is actually a “personal project” of sorts, only with your work instead of mine, but it is somehow my work too….so, we are in this together …..BURN is just simply what goes on in my loft at the Kibbutz all the time…official workshops yes, but general hang spot for photographers more often than not…as i said, one of THE photo spots in New York…many of you have experienced this first hand at various photo projections and events …and more than a few of you have even slept on my floor (ode to Koudelka)….

    ok, back to the point…all my stuff is now out of the Kibbutz…i simply cannot afford to stay there any longer because my primary expense is now the beach house (by the way, the beach place will soon become a place for you to visit..a bit of a trip, but worth it….and i plan to have some limited photo events here as well)…anyway, i have just enough money to keep the Kibbutz loft through May…it now sits largely empty…and as i was pulling away from the Kibbutz three days ago, i thought “damn i just cannot let this place is just too too perfect for a NYC space…”

    so, the van was packed and it just hit me just as Mike and Tony pro skater and i turned on to the highway….my thoughts raced to the obvious…..

    i thought: why not turn the Kibbutz loft into a BURN gallery for the photographers here??…sell your prints from selected work….

    figure out some fair percentage for both of us (galleries usually have a 50/50 split) so that when Tom Hyde sells his tumbleweed photograph for $1000. he keeps half, and Burn keeps half (or whatever we work out)…to pay for the gallery, the office, and Anton, therefore financing BURN and YOU with an infrastructure we already have in place…sell your self published books too….BURN would not be an agency, but BURN could be your agent….there is a difference….and nobody has anything to lose that i can imagine…IF you sell a print, you help yourself, you help Burn….

    i am soon to be looking for major subsidies for BURN…not advertising…i am talking major support to be able to finance photographers work…the EPF is only the beginning….taking large amounts of funding with minimal strings attached is of course the goal…impossible?? not really…we do it at Magnum with regularity…

    as of last week , i have been charged with helping to develop an online “channel system” for Magnum…Magnet….BURN will become a Magnum channel via Magnet….other photographers will have their own “channel”…Magnet can develop its own funding as a larger “brand” and/or BURN can secure its own funding or both… …this will keep us viable here and help to keep you growing and producing out there just over the dune line…

    i will be announcing soonest the new Advisory Board for BURN…an “A” listing of folks respected in our business and who will draw sponsorship and/or donations….i will be announcing soonest the entire list of staff from our audience here..up until last week , i had Anton Kusters and yours truly doing everything….Bob Black has volunteered, at my request, to be Editor at Large (seeking new talent, writing special essays, and well, just being Bob Black)…Kerry Payne has worked hours and hours on a viable business plan (she does that professionally), and Chris Bradley, Creative Director at Ogilvy & Mather has volunteered his services outside of his agency, to study the whole “branding” bit…i am talking with several others of you who have expressed interest in helping us with BURN…you know who you are…

    all of this sounds a bit daunting, but all of this will allow us to do exactly what we are doing only about 10 times better…right now we are “one dimensional”….i can see much more “depth” with each photographer whose work is presented on BURN….

    i will not go into details of what we will do now, but believe me the possibilities are revolutionary….let’s face it, it is time for a revolution..throughout history whenever there has been confusion and floundering (which certainly describes our business/craft now) is exactly when something comes along and changes the “face” of everything….

    the large publishing companies, with debilitating overheads, cannot move with stealth in this new economic environment…they have now to fire half their staffs….they have big buildings with big monthly expenses….at BURN we have my humble loft ….and we are in close touch with all of the same photographers that many magazines and agencies now cannot afford to hire…hmmmmm…

    PLUS , more importantly we have YOU….the new breed…the new generation…the next bunch to rip it up….and WE are already gathered…we are not making stuff up here, i am telling you all of this already exists….hmmmmm, so put two and two together…timing, timing, and timing…

    these are ideas anyone can have….so, why would it work for us?? because we already have totally in place a whole combination of things that nobody else has…..but even if it does not work, what the hell?? nothing lost at all…forget one possible fear right off….my close attachment to all of you is germane to this whole issue….i ain’t going anywhere…and you know damn well i cannot get rich, because it would blow my whole image…survival sounds attractive however…

    ok, well sorry, this was a way too long winded comment…but,i am in full thinking mode, so forgive please…and besides, the whole point of this is that i need your thoughts…but just on the ONE ISSUE, the gallery issue, for the moment….a Burn based gallery to sell your prints (curated shows….say, monthly events to do so)…i can hang 30-40 prints at a time….we can have print storage shelves etc etc…you provide the print or work out a deal with Mike to print for you (mike has very long list of known photographers for whom he has been their primary gallery printer before he came to work with me)…as with everything with Burn , .we are a community with arbiter …just as in the submissions here for publication on Burn, the EPF , etc etc. not everyone can participate in everything, but everybody sure as hell has a chance….do exemplary work , and you are “on it”…

    again, just one more way to turn our online experience into a reality…

    your thoughts???

    cheers, david

  168. One question:

    Can we still sleep on the floor when in New York? Of course we’d agree to be out before the gallery opened…

    Seriously, I have no idea if it’s a viable option. It seems like it is, I would love it to be, and anything I could do (I couldn’t imagine what) — I would be glad to pitch in, the idea is just so exciting.

    With an online gallery /store and a New york gallery space, it seems you could stay afloat, if the readership here is anywhere close to what you’ve described previously…

  169. David,
    this is a huge and increadible undertaking, If you think I might be able to help out with anything, drop me a line.
    Your generousity of thought and deed is quite outstanding. The vision of finding a breathing space, whether physical or web based, for an open forum for emerging and established photographers and art buyers/editors/commissioners/non photographerss/appreciators of the craft of photography to mix is grand and I wish it the best of luck.

    During my short time here I have certainly been challenged and inspired.

    You might want to take a look at it is a photographic library, that has been set up by three top end commercial photographers as a showcase for photographers personal work, that they do not want to have tucked away in a filing cabinet nor do they want the images to be sucked into the abyss of photographers rights issues surrounding getty etc. John Hegarty of BBH is heavily involved and keen to champion the rights of photographers. The percentage rates are good as it is run by photographers for photographers.

    Best of luck


  170. A civilian-mass audience

    It took me 45 minutes to read Mr. Harvey’s post …my eyes are still hurting BUT I AM smiling!!!

    I feel so HAPPY again, so inspired…
    OIME. MR. HARVEY with all the good energy that we are sending and all the love and the kisses from your family and your friends and your friends to be…YOU ARE THE “RICHEST” man ALIVE !!!!

    Mr. Tom Young, his tumbleweed photograph for $1000…aaaa??? ( any discounts for civilians?)

    BURN the place TO BE !!!!

    P.S I would like to be the first CIVILIAN to donate 50 EUROS for the Kibbutz PLACE . SERIOUS .What shall I do ?

  171. David :)))))))))))))))

    that was an essay in and of itself :)))))))))))))….and were it only possible you could write long, more often :)))))))))….there sure is something in that OBX shoreline wind that gets a mind a chumbling :)))))

    i think it is a brilliant idea…cause BURN GALLERY already has more for it than most galleries have to start with: an active and interested ‘client(s)’, a strong curatorial base (you), a well-spring of ideas/creativity (Burn), a place that is reasonably inexpensive ($2000/month is pretty cheap for a ‘commerical’ space), and branding and a large cache….

    a first idea: exhibit the work of the EPF winner and finalists….

    the only problem i see arising is the images themselves (printing, shipping, etc)….for those who shoot digitally, this is a non-issue, for those of us who either print ourselves or are experimenting with digital prints from negative-generated files, another issue….BUT….this should not stop the train…

    those are details to work out…but for now, seeing what i saw during the October show at Kibbutz and the prints generated, i’d say it’d be a brilliant gallery, a brilliant venture and, why the hell hasnt’ it been thought of up to now?…

    think APERTURE, ONLY younger ;))))))))

    got to get me some of that sweet-salt carolina sky….


  172. DAH

    what else can I say that hasn’t already been expressed above…

    Inspirational… Great idea.
    your energy is so infectious, i love it! – energy, idea(s) & writing… (kinda missed a snapshot to go with though)

    How about some sort of group project, seeing as Burn reaches so far and wide, something of our daily lives, postcards from home… i myself live in the Aussie bush and shoot dairy photography. I think it could be quite special, for anyone who wants to join in, something of our own individual realities. Just a passing idea…



  173. David,

    I love the idea. Who wouldn’t buy a print or two while under the seductive power of the view over Manhattan?

    Could you potentially start staffing the gallery via the volunteer efforts of burn photographers? I imagine a cooperative task would appeal to many of the people here, and you’d probably have a full roster of those willing to donate a day a week to working in the gallery. Forwarding the thought of authorship/ownership would not only save on start-up costs but would also build the business skills of a team of dedicated emerging photographers and add momentum to your idea.

    Glad to hear about your cottage by the beach. Sounds idyllic. Meeting a friend at Diner today up the street from the Kibbutz. We’ll toast you.


  174. David….
    what a great idea..
    who would be there to sell the prints?
    would it be by appt. only?
    In terms of $ for rent,
    what about charging each photog
    to hang their photos?
    you know the saying
    ‘you gotta pay to play…’
    That and sales could help with rent….
    LOVE the idea…
    It just needs to generate $,
    to keep it viable….
    And I know plenty of gallery spaces where
    artists pay a monthly fee to hang their art….
    I love your way of thinking,
    your energy
    and your creative spirit….
    an inspiration
    to all…..

  175. ANDREW…

    well my friend , i will counting on you for your ideas and support….your first thought is a good one…we will get our gang back together soonest for another meeting of the minds..the first meeting has brought us “here”, the next one will take us “there”….there are some details to be worked out, but it all sounds like fun to me….


    i think the best way is to have the gallery event based..the Kibbutz is definitely not going to be a walk in gallery….but it would not be so difficult to have an event per month…you have not been to the space, but you may imagine the crowds we draw already…..i am so so into alternative exhibition spaces in general….this Kibbutz space is just the beginning of what we can do….start thinking old warehouse space L.A…..collectively, we can do whatever we want…..can’t we???


    sure, why not?? good idea too….

    cheers, david

  176. :))) of course. maybe an elephant too. anything i have. and no, you absolutely positively cannot let that space go but then I am a broken record on this, no? and for myself, I had envisioned this space as ultimately Burn space from the beginning but, but it wasn’t my space. How generous of you to make it all our space. Of course, Burn needs a physical nexus point too … perfect.

  177. DAH

    exactly..I actually have thought many times about the ability of selling work after the slideshows of the people who were featured when people are happy and excited about the work..I think event based is smart, actually, you already had the slideshow / book sale event for Trolley, that seemed to go well and I don’t think there was tons of advance notice. Your ability to bring in established photographers to talk and show work would be a huge asset if you could combine that with work for sale..What about the possibility of hosting a slideluck?

  178. DAVID
    oh yes,
    all is possible…
    what can I do
    to help?
    I think it is a WONDERFUL idea..
    and maybe,
    just maybe
    all prints have to be custom,
    NO giclees….
    so buyers are guarenteed a custom print,
    as opposed to ink jet….
    not that there is anything wrong with digital prints,
    but BuRN’s signature could be all custom photographs..
    I’ve noticed in the gallery world
    that custom prints are worth double
    than an ink jet print….
    just an idea…..
    but maybe not,
    perhaps it is too limiting..

  179. DAH..

    I should also say that I used to work at Vision Gallery, which was one of the most amazing photography-only galleries was in San Fran..a total philanthropic endeavor by the owner Joe Folberg, he ran it for a handful of years because of his love for photography, we showed many of the masters (that was my real photo education, handling and hanging all those prints)..and I ran the gallery at Maine Photo Workshops for a summer, so I have a few skillz :) I’d be happy to try to unearth if we need them…

  180. David, count me in. I have a photographic lifetime that few have seen.

    In addition to event based sales, would it be possible to have a virtual gallery here at Burn? It will increase sales and allow prints to be made only when they have been purchased.

    let me know where and when you want digital files sent: I’d be happy for Michael C to print for me.

    In my 33 years as a photographer I have never seen anything like this. Yes, we needed the technology but we also needed someone ‘over the dunes” to pull it all together. Thanks.

    I’m in the U.K. but anything that I can do please let me know. As for you up-and-coming photographers out there; I hope you realize what an opportunity – a potential career-making opportunity this is!!!!

    Best wishes,


  181. ~ david ~

    I have a 20×24 matted print of the women in the hot springs that you published on bUrn in February.
    It is at my mom’s apartment in nyc…it is now yours to help raise some $$ for any of your bUrning endeavors, whichever way the wind blows. I will frame it and give it to you whenever you want it to do whatever you want with it. Just a small gesture to say thank you for your encouragement and inspiration…peace and love…hillary

  182. WOW!!! I miss a morning of checking up on Burn & look what happens??? Speaking of which, you might want to post your long comment as a separate thread, David. Since it was on an existing thread, I didn’t catch it at first.

    David, you really are a visionary. But the thing about your visions is that you make them happen in real time. So here we go…again! I sometimes feel like we’re riding the most gigantic roller coaster in the world, one that has its dips, yes, but one that keeps soaring to more and more spectacular heights. Believe me, the view from this creative coaster is breathtaking!

    YES! That is my response to your latest brainstorm. I’ve been to the loft and can see it as a gallery, a beauiful gallery at that. The light is perfect, the space is nice & open, it has a bathroom & small unobtrusive kitchen, and wonderfully tall ceilings. Besides, there’s space downstars to show slideshows, an elevator to carry woork & people up six flights of stairs to the gallery, and a gorgeous roof for smokers. What more could you ask?

    Well, a bit of $$$ for starters. *It is time for the DONATION BUTTON to appear on Burn.* There are LOADS of photographers and Burn readers who live too far away to volunteer at the gallery or even attend its events. But we ALL want to be part of this grand adventure. Please give us a tangible way to do so.

    You’re right, of course. Everything is already in place for this to happen. You already know the people in the NYC photography world & they know you. Many of them have come to the loft more than once to see slideshows, hear speakers or just hang out.

    You have an excellent & varied body of work just waiting to be shown. And you have relationships with untold numbers of emerging & established photographers who would love to show in the Burn gallery.

    Regarding particulars, be sure that Burn gets enough of a percentage of the $$ from sales. You know how it goes: the higher the gallery percentage, the higher the prices set by the photogs. We know how to adjust for that. But I personally think that collectors will be MOST interested in Burn Gallery, mainly because they will be able to buy the work of tomorrow’s greats at today’s lower prices. And in NYC, no matter how the economy is tanking for the rest of the country/world, there will always be folks with LOTS of money!

    I’m trusting there will be no restrictions on how the photographers want to present their work. If they want to show mimeographed images on butcher paper, that should be their perogative. We’re after quality, yes, but we also want to be open to new ways of seeing/presenting photographs. Of course, there will be a curator and/or curatorial committee to deal with issues of quality and diversity.

    Please let me know how I can help. I am totally psyched about this idea and can’t wait to see how it manifests.

    BRAVO to you, David Alan Harvey! You are a damn genius!!!


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