Burn3

nothing happens until it happens , but things are happening…cracking, buzzing, and yes burning bright…we will launch soonest a working model of BURN magazine (or journal or??)….the house will not be finished…we still need to  get in the wiring and plumbing and it will be a long time before all the furniture is chosen and the interior is decorated and we all feel "at home"…but, at least you will have a sense of it….and you will have a "place at the table"….

i must right now thank Anton Kusters for his tireless efforts working on design and function…the boy flew all the way from Brussels to spend four days here sleeping on my floor…..in the next sleeping bag was Tom Hyde and tossing and turning on the sofa was Chris Bickford…my place looked like a homeless shelter rather than a home for a  wellspring of  ideas…reminiscent of my grad school days or some version of a camping out road trip….

all i can say is that i was totally humbled by all of the hard work from Tom Hyde(flew from Seattle), Eric Espinosa  (flew from Cincinnati), Erica McDonald, Andrew Sullivan, David McGowan, and Andrew Owen from Look3..and i will never forget Kelly Lynn James who gets total credit for suggesting BURN as a title…many  thanks to all of you who wrote, phoned in, and sent constructive emails..but, it ain't over yet….

today and tomorrow i must attend our Magnum board meeting…our winter interim gathering of the tribe…who would have ever thought i would be on any "board", but well life has its twists…i might be able to get an interesting post out of it , but in the meantime all of you will have time to chew on this…..

oh yes, if you are in New York, we have our annual Magnum book signing at Aperture tonight…please join us…

back soonest…..

134 thoughts on “teaser…..”

  1. Comments

    BURNers… and ALL

    back home… missing you all already… i want to come back…

    ALL

    thanks a million for all the comments and the great ideas and offers to help and all… will get a lot of stuff done “soonest”, and if any help needed, i will post immediately here…. you guys are all great, really…

    cheers,

    BURNton

    :)

    Posted by: anton | December 15, 2008 at 07:48 AM

    SOMEGUY….

    you are quite the great thinker…and i now understand a bit better your words “something to lose” from this most recent missive…

    yes, yes i see it…and as the world of traditional print is crumbling before our very eyes and technology is allowing us so much freedom combining video and stills and voice over and original music etc etc, we would indeed “lose” something if we did not take advantage of the organic nature of what is growing in this garden….

    our worst case scenario here is this…by launching soonest a “model” we will have a better version of what we have now…even those of us who have seen some stories in development here , will actually be “surprised” when they are all up in nice style….even if we do not add one single new person to our forum, we will have a better looking “campus” to further our educational imperative…

    please please join us as “yourself” with words of wisdom, some good old fashioned still photography, or a movie you make just for us right here…whatever mistakes i have made here, or am about to make, and then fix and then start again , will always be taken as part of my own “education process”….your input, either critical or supportive, will be taken in the very context you have set up for yourself…valued for its intelligence…

    and , of course, i will just have to be me as well…going on my gut instincts, sensing the “right moment”, celebrating the talent of others….

    i do enjoy the camaraderie of small campfire or clubhouse…hence Magnum instead of Getty…i am unlikely to change much on that score…however, in this “new age of electronic reason” the parameters of “clubhouse” have already expanded exponentially and have brought me the likes of Audrey and Glenn and Marcin and Rafal and Patricia and Bob and Panos and Erica and Anton and Tom and Lassal and YOU…all folks i have “met” right here…

    so, let’s keep the window open…fresh air circulating breathes life into a room….and at the same time, please give me a chance to do what i think i can do….the buzz of shared thought has already taken hold…still, and i think you may agree, there has to be a singular vision for how the gallery is lit..how the show is hung…someone who takes in the palette of ideas and then brushes them to canvas….

    join me in New York when you have time…i think you must know by now, my door is open…or, if i am your territory, there is always time for coffee or whatever….

    many thanks for the log you have thrown on the campfire…

    cheers, david

    Posted by: david alan harvey | December 15, 2008 at 07:56 AM

    Prints sound like a good idea to raise some money.

    How about having a BURN show to raise money?

    Find a venue in NYC who supports the cause and will offer the space for free or next to nothing.

    Those readers and contributors of Road Trips who want to see BURN become a reality and success can donate a limited edition collectors print for the show. All proceeds from the first event would go to getting BURN off the ground.

    DAH could curate and select the images from our work, or it could be a group effort or have a guest curator.

    If it works it could become an annual event, or take place 3-4 times a year in different cities with the profits from the prints being split 50-50 between BURN and the photographer.

    Cheers,

    Justin

    Posted by: Justin Partyka | December 15, 2008 at 08:00 AM

    Congrats on the productivity of you kibbutz-goers! I’m glad you had a good time and seeing motion from this is very exciting.

    I just want to say that it won’t just be Panos who buys a burn bandanna…

    Limited edition prints is a good idea. I’d buy affordable prints for my wall!

    What is the Burn model right now? What is the next step?

    I like the idea of “work in progress” and seperate “final stories” so something updates with interesting teasers/ideas and the audience is brought into the production of the final essay. Education and entertainment. I love photos but I love the stories behind the photos too!

    Posted by: Neil | December 15, 2008 at 08:17 AM

  2. This project is awesome. Just reading the blog the last few weeks has got my fire ‘burning’ for the Burn project. How can I help? How can I get involved?

  3. someguy..

    there is your invite mate..

    all

    secret is that he’s been on the magnum blog of late, trying to get the community feel going over there.. and i’ve seen his work through emails and it’s worth seeing..

    so..

    someguy.. far be it from me to ‘blow your cover’..

    come on, now..

    :o)

  4. regarding prints – how about if we all post 2 possible photos somewhere, (a new thread?), and one can be chosen from each..

    then we can all agree a standard size, boarder and the like.. sign them and post them to new york..

    they could then be in and ready when the site goes live.

    also.. david.. how about mike setting up a paypal account for donations from readers here..? just to get the ball rolling with moula..

    have fun at the board meeting.. black tie and shiney shoes, i’m sure

    :o)

  5. i really love what you guys are doing. i think online magazines is the future and your concept and design will set a standard.

    i’d love to help any way i can.

  6. BuRNTON and ALL – fantastic job and such commitment!!!

    THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

    ERIC – great photos. thank you for sharing

    DAH – we will talk later about what LOOK3 may be able to do.

  7. DAH

    i agree with you about advertising in principle and think it is best avoided..

    my thoughts were more for a ‘supported by XXX’ note and small icon, be it nikon, canon, leica, .. very small.. bottom corner style.. a simple link which could add weight rather than confuse the style.. and could produce a yearly lump sum.

    it’s going to be fantastic if the end result could become a commissioning agent in it’s own right.. whether that works through a repro fee system or advance with expenses.. will be just great.. and if that is added to photographers own efforts, (getting support indipendantly0 then some quite extraordinary work could result..

    my lover and son are back on wednesday, so i may disappear into the ether again after that.. will stick around until then.

    tor capa laughs now, you know.

    magic.

  8. DAVID:

    FIRSTLY, let me say your voice is like HOT (burn? ;)) )….like Marilyn to Mr. President, only with the teeth of time and pipes to fill that baby with love-smoke :))))…even put a smile on D too :))))…M loved it too (she left u a message yesterday) :)))))…thanks brother, big lovely song :)))))))))))

    DAVID, ANTON, TOM, CHRIS, ERIC+(A), MIKE, ANDREW ALL THE REST… all the rest of y’all bad boys and bad girls:

    have been away from computer, with family…just a simple word; THANKS…

    looks great, so many ideas to read through…no time now, on deadline (dah deadline), will leave some words later today…site looks bon bon bon!!!….

    Y’ALL ROCK…

    word…

    ok, gotta split to teach…

    b baby b :_))

    b

  9. Just as a matter of satisfying my curiosity, I hied me hence down to my local public library to take a look at Ulrich’s Periodical Directory. There are three periodicals using the word burn in their mastheads. First is Burn, which is a fitness magazine for men ages 18-28, the second is Burn Collector, a perzine published in North Carolina by a Chicago based writer and musician, and the third is Burn Support News, a newsletter for burn survivors, their families, and medical professionals dealing with burn injuries. As none of these periodicals deal with photography in any way, I dont think there should be a problem with the title.

    Okay, that was my weekly five minutes of seriousness. Now I am going off to my corner to think up some fart jokes.

  10. pierre yves racine

    Just wanted to say thank you because this is going to be a wonderful place !

    Anton, it looks great !!

    If I can help by any mean… I could translate some parts into French, for instance…

    Didn’t have time to read all comments, as usual, but thank you !

  11. BURN has been on my mind a lot lately, i just haven’t had time to post anything here. THANK YOU to the kibbutz crew for all of your bright minds and hard work.

    i love the idea of having a ‘works in progress’ and ‘final projection’ sections to the magazine.. with words of help and constructive criticism from our fellow brothers and sisters in this community, and future friends that we don’t even know yet.

    print sales to fund the machine.. the machine being the magazine and the photographers… one cannot survive without the other. by the way, i’ve been shooting with the same foam trucker’s cap for years now, i’d love to sport a ‘burn’ cap. :)

    okay, just got a phone call and i gotta jet. much love to you all… please call if you want to talk.. +1-512-569-0432.

    best,

    lance

  12. Damn you guys been working fast!! I’m still catching up and looking over the past THREE posts all in the space of the last week! This is very exciting!!

    Back in Ohio now (not so exciting) nice to see friends though. In the new year we move to Denver. Anybody on here in the Denver area? Would love to catch up!

    Going to look back over the last posts and (hopefully) ;) come back with some constructive comments. You obviously have it all under control though!

    You guys really busted some ass! Many CONGRATULATIONS and grateful THANKS to you all. Amazing!

    (Special cheeky British wink to Tom Hyde and Anton whom I have had the pleasure of meeting (and I hope will many times again).

    Cheers,

    James

  13. I posted on last thread but will repost here:

    A little late here to this thread:

    Print sales are ONE way to raise funds but certainly shouldn’t be seen as a primary one. Print sales can be fickle, so it’s best to see them as a bonus when and if they do happen. Plus someone has to stay on top of packing and shipping etc, lost or damaged prints, unhappy customers (believe me it does happen), etc etc. Something to think about.

    I’m not as opposed to advertising as some might be. If (and if it’s a big if) it can contained and it actually enhances vs distracts from the site. By that I mean choosing the types of advertising and it’s layout etc. Of course this may be more work and hassle than it’s worth. Just a thought.

    Sponsorship is good, and can be folded into the type of advertising I mentioned above. In other words, say Leica gave some $ for sponsorship and maybe featured an image by one of the contributors in an ad for the M8 taken by that contributor with an M8. Maybe the prints for sale are made with an Epson, or HP.

    Subscription is another way to go, but imo has to be kept low (say no more than $20 per year).

    Also, the idea of paying contributing photographers is a nice idea, but may not be a realistic one at least for the near future, unless one wants to go with heavy advertisers. Photographers should see this as a chance for exposure for projects that might not get it otherwise, therefore giving them the opportunity to sell prints, add to their portfolio, etc. This is different than the news stand mag that says “we have no budget” and yet are featuring huge vodka ads and so on (and usually blowing all of their photo budget on the fashion spread). Of course if the sponsorship idea can fly then the photographers wh are getting sponsored will of course receive some $. But I don’t think anyone should come into this thinking of it as a way to make some $.

    Charles

  14. I really like the logo. Great work Anton!

    I think I’m with Charles here. One or two ads might not be too bad. Ads all over the site and google adsense – no way.. Of course it must be a brand that can go well with the site.. But this is David’s call, just my opinion..

    I don’t like the idea of print sales as funding for the site. If someone wants to buy a print from a contributor it might be very well needed money for the photographer. I guess maybe burn could get a percentage of the print sale, but I don’t like the idea..

    Are people getting their hopes up a bit too high? burn will not solve the worlds problems.. Yeah, it will give some very gifted photographers some exposure, but become their gallerist and agency.. Don’t think so..

    Cheers

  15. and i do agree with charles about commissioning fees, at least initially.

    i think a folio show on burn could be presented as an award of achievement in itself.. at least to begin with.. and perhaps a token repro fee..?

    it’s not going to be a source of great income to photographers already working the various systems and although well intended it might just put too much pressure on the initial stages..

    what i’ll be shooting this year could certainly be used without charge, and infact it would be used by me as a mechanism for getting paying clients interested in buying the work.. if i were lucky enough to feature

    *disclaimer… david.. i know i have to get the book down, am working very hard on the book edit for decade and more.. but i cannot resist setting up stories for this year as well.. it’s easy for me and i need to shoot more for the book anyway*

  16. love trolley books too. i will be ordering a few books this week – the discount is great!

    off to meet lance. bought one of his prints while i was here in austin and need to go buy a tube to bring it back to dc!!

  17. OH YES. YES. YES.

    As an innocent bystander i’m so happy to see this collaboration come to fruition and hope to be a part of it sometime.

    respect and admiration to you, david, and the others i don’t know, except andrew….what a leader you are mystical, magical.

    love, anne

  18. gina.. oh man..

    i would love to buy a print from ANTON, BOB, ERICA, TOM, GLENN, ERIC, more.. more.. more..

    if i could find a decent lab in stavanger i would offer print swaps..

  19. … I resisted saying this in the previous

    “Venice post”…

    In that photo with the girl drinking that

    beer… you can see me, or my BLACK

    BANDANA… I’m right under her right

    arm ( actually I’m framed within her arm and

    her body )… I was shooting her friend

    next to her doing something “crazy”..

    Soon I will post “my point of view” of

    that particular night…

    & yes AUDREY, GINA, all..

    Please , please.. a Black “BURN”

    bandana for me and of course for the

    NEIL..

    NEIL , what kinda color you prefer yours..?

    I know you like red!!!!;-)))))))

    ALL,

    back in the rainy LA, since last night..

    A very beautiful soul provided me with

    a comfy couch somewhere in PLAYA DEL REY..

    5 minutes away from VENICE…

    can’t get any better than that…

    Love you ALL…

    & David B.. Thank you.. back to our

    friendship now…

    Ok , enough of me ..

    Time to expose the “Rainy”.. “moody”

    side of Venice now..

    Off I go….

    Peace

  20. … sorry, I’m not just “panos”, yet..

    I’m still “panos skoulidas”..

    Laughing…

    How arrogant would that be…!

    Ok..

    Driving

    peace

  21. I’d certainly be happy to donate prints for the collective burn … could even have the official “Burn Posters” series which would be more cost effective to both produce and for people to purchase … perhaps it could raise a little.

    ERIC … will be making you a print after the holidays for our exchange :))))

    DAH … I know I owe you a print as well … it is here and framed, and didn’t want to admit I forgot it on the mad 2 a.m. dash to the airport :))) Will send soonest.

    BOWEN … you’ve been a good friend … I want the bloke with the pint :)))

    tom

  22. tom..

    get this.. i have been trying to find a decent lab in stavanger for just that print.. for too long..

    his name is brendon..

    derry, in the north of ireland, is one of the few cities where i seem to also be friends with the characters in the snaps. beautiful place.. back this year for the 7th or 8th time.. dancing in the bogside is a special privilege for an english-man..

    it’s the photo harvey noticed that led to that friendship early 2007.. and i have the neg cleaned and ready to go.. just live in such a small two bit town that there is no where to get an exhibition print.. even tried to find a colour darkroom to print myself without joy.

    going to get an edition of 5 done in london when i go there next week..

    :o)

  23. To clarify …I was thinking of “Burn Posters” from the collective family here … turning the work of posters to Burn/Road Trips into actual posters … folks could donate an image for the collective burn (good) which in turn could be turned into a poster and given to people who donate to Burn magazine at a given amount, or prints at a higher amount … you know, the NPR, PBS fundraising model except you get cool art instead of a video set, etc … the Google checkout model is very simple.

    I think this is a little different concept than what has already been discussed but fits into the Obama-style fundraising style discussed previously.

    Just thinking out loud :))

    tom

  24. David B., funny, didn’t know the whole history with that shot, good to know i have good taste :))) … i believe there really are some good online print outfits that ship worldwide :))

    tom

  25. good stuff.

    It’d be nice to see a section/column of Burn named – Apt. 475

    The place is a known quantity.

  26. trouble is i need a larger file scan.. it was shot in 2005 and the scan i had done on short deadline for dj magazine is simply not large enough to get the size i need.

    funny..

    on the road i took so many photos.. so many discarded because they were not to the magazines tastes, and so i deleted the scans.. which means i am finding some really special snaps only in negative form, including the beer one, which have never been published, exhibited or shown in any form.

    i exhibited the work from n. ireland this year in derry and it was the first time anyone has seen them all.

    in derry i found love.. on all levels.. and it is one of the places closest to my heart.. always will be.

    do you know, tom, i still look at your archive more than regularly.. you have such patience in waiting for a shot and a real talent for finding the spot from where that shot is going to appear… is that how it works for you?

    beate is understanding now how great photos happen.. and thinks it is cheating in a way.. as she thought we snappers walked constantly looking for a photo, when the reality is much more about finding an interesting place and then waiting for the photo to happen right before our opened eyes.

    i call it planning and forethought to minimize the random elements, and she calls it cheating :o)

    just bought her a g9 to snap daily life with..

    i love this.

    http://hydeimages.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/feet.jpg

    elephants fascinate me..

  27. .. and posters is a great idea.

    obama inspires..

    the fact is that whether we are all earning from photography or not we are all producing fantastic products.. objects.. grabbed from the thin air around us, and so lets sell photos.

    after all, that’s what we do, no? simple.

    make photos and sell them.

    commission, donation.. whatever.. it’s going to sell because it’s worth buying, for a collector.

    to, (again), quote from ‘waking life’;

    “The trick is to combine your waking rational abilities with the infinite possibilities of your dreams. Because, if you can do that, you can do anything.”

  28. One of the tricks to selling anything is getting the people who actually have money to see the work. No matter whether it be an ongoing sale or a one time fundraiser. So best to start thinking about that (ie moving beyond our “family” here, many of whom can’t even afford a place to live).

    Anyway, if a NYC fundraiser print sale for BURN operating costs can be organized that can get real collectors to it (ie none of us should be letting go prints worth $1000 for $100), a Cobain print is on it’s way.

    Charles

  29. tim … great minds … alternative title, The Kibbutz …

    and I’ve seriously thought about all the incredible photographers and artists who have visited, or live at 475 Kent. There must be incredible work already out there, none of it by itself a complete body of work but collectively …

    I would love, love to contribute, organize, curate (or preferably work with DAH to curate), an entire project centered around the now legendary and historic 475 Kent … book, sound, multimedia, posters, etc. which could roll into the collective burn … a nonprofit venture benefitting the collective that has grown around the building, DAH, this forum and of course, BURN. I am hot on this … truly an inspiring visit to NYC, although I had some inkling of this before I visited for the first time. In these hard times, the community can support itself to a large degree I think if we all pitch in and work together for the common good, as we are already doing. Okay, no Kumbaya, I’m more realistic than that, but the collaborative mold and foundation have been laid by DAH and folks seem willing … small efforts by many can lead to a larger collective success … essentially, BURN and spinoffs to support it. Frankly, I like the idea of a Foundation (The Collective Burn Foundation or whatever) in the long term to umbrella all these ideas … it’s been done well before, even in newspapers. Perhaps this is too big, too fast but I tend to think this way and then stage it back from there. Seems we are already on that path. The first steps have been taken.

    anyway … as you were saying …

    http://www.hydeimages.com/475/index.html

    tom

  30. “do you know, tom, i still look at your archive more than regularly.. you have such patience in waiting for a shot and a real talent for finding the spot from where that shot is going to appear… is that how it works for you?”

    Yeah, pretty much, I’ve figured that out … with David’s help … and I slowly get better, still bringing it all together, vision and technique. BTW, I hate looking at my archive, want to tear it all down :))

    tom

  31. CHARLES,

    Yes, if these fundraising print sale events happen, the work must not be devalued – the collectors with the money (if there are still any out there!) must be the people who come.

    I was not even thinking that the photographers on here would be buying the work.

    Justin

  32. TOM,

    Exactly.. got the Apt # mixed .. dyslexia is a drag..

    Note to self: more Coffee less half n half

  33. Ouaaahhh!!!

    So much seems to have happened since I last posted on this blog … sounds great … can’t wait Xmas break to catch up with what I’ve missed … can’t wait to print your comments, read it all in one go (or two), discover new pictures, new photographers … just can’t wait … it feels like when I am back from vacation waiting for my slides to be developed … love it … tchao. romain

  34. don’t know if panos posted this “burn” reference…but it fits, too.

    “The only people for me are the mad ones,

    the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but BURN, BURN, BURN

    like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”

    – Jack Kerouac

  35. ANA, thanks :))) … perhaps a rare moment in the midst of the creative storm of DAH …

    MICHELLE … YES, YES, YES!!! :)))

  36. When the first drop of ink falls on a piece of paper, it could be anything; accident, shop list, poem or novel, something ordinary or something special, it could be everything.

    But everything means nothing before the end.

    And only a fool assume the nothing will be biggest thing in own kind. Only blind look further than humans eyes can see.

    And I am a fool and I am blind, and I tell you this will be big stuff.

    Not now, not tomorrow.

    Now this is just too much cups of coffee and headache.

    Damn creation it is funny stuff, you never know what will happen around the corner, what you will see when light of a candle fend off the dark. Maybe there is nothing, just wall or everything in some garden of secrets.

    I wish you all damn good world famous magazine.

    You deserve that.

    Like genius a moment of peace of mind.

    Let it burn the souls of billions.

  37. MICHELLE,

    all my love to U…

    BURN

    BURN

    BURN

    like yellow roman candles…

    MARCIN…

    yeeeeeeeeeeeees…

    my beautiful poet… please keep writing!!!

  38. love back’atcha panos!

    and more….

    (from the masthead of The Sun Magazine):

    What is to give light must endure burning.

    – viktor frankl

  39. tom

    don’t we all see things in our archive which shame us just a little?

    hmm.

    i keep finding photos on film.. which i’m glad were not digital.. for if they were they would be online somewhere.

    :o)

  40. DAVID B,

    yes I do – sometimes. that’s what would be considered NYC fair market value. depending on the image/buyer they sometimes go for less than that (and I won’t say how much less).

    I had another idea. It might be nice to have a gear column as well. Now I know that Road Trips is probably one of the least gear oriented blogs on the net, but it may be a way to attract advertiser/sponsors (or whatever they may end up being). And it shouldn’t be your usual pixel peeping nonsense. I was thinking more of an “In the Field” kind of thing. I could care less about how some rich old man uses the newest $6K Leica lens to shoot old cars or his cat. But how would that lens (or say a cheaper alternative) work in a real life situation. And maybe some tips and tricks that really mean something to the type of people that come here. None of this my camera has more megapixels than your camera bullshit. Just some real hands on how do I get the job done kind of thing. Of course some of this might be covered in the “Behind the Scenes” on the essays, but it might be interesting as a little one-two page side thing as well. And it could be that somebody uses Tri-X and an FM2 but that could be just as valid as the newest whiz bang dslr. Post processing and printing tips would be cool as well.

    Personally, I’m a bit of a gearhead but find most of the sites out there dealing with gear to be really obnoxious and full of terrible work. Get Nikon/Leica/Canon to put some cameras/lenses for testing into the hands of people who really deserve it.

    Take care,

    Charles

  41. charles.. that’s incredible.

    i had read a long while ago that print sales – everything photography sales – were earning more in new york than anywhere.

    well.. i have an original hendrix print and beatles print in my collection which were gifted to me.. i guess i’ll hang on to those and dig out some of mine.

    i’m personally not into the idea of equipment and technique for burn simply because there are so many resources for this kinda thing on the web already… and in book shops.. yesterday i read that in 1998 around the time of war photographer JN was using trix rated at 250 and putting it through a canon 1v..

    that in bosnia he used a radiator to keep chemical temperature and used puddle water filtered through a handkerchief to wash..

    that’s just not very interesting to many though.. editors and gallery curators particularly..

    darkroom geeks like you and i have plenty of places to go already.. to discuss salt prints and bleaching..

    maybe a technical or printing room in the forum if it turns out to be a multi roomed forum, but kept to a minimum i reckon.. that just my opinion of course.

    in other news – check out this national geographic photoshop disaster of a competition winner..

    http://photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com/2008/12/national-geographic-heres-your-prize.html

    very poor.

  42. CHARLES … well, the special custom-designed Filson David Alan Harvey bag would certainly seem appropriate don’t you think, with an embroidered BURN logo of course ?!? I mean, do you know how many bags David has … he must have figured out a whole series of “perfect” bags by now! Personally, I’d kill for the worn-looking, tin-cloth canvas dispatch bag with leather bottom and photo insert …

    Gotta come see you in Seattle … would January work with your family and plans?

    DAVID B. :)) If you cringe at your own archive it only means you’re growing, yes … very little of mine is visible :))

    tom

  43. And I’m sure this has been discussed to death already (I can’t keep up with the comments here), but who is the target audience of the magazine/journal/whatever? Are we trying to reach beyond the usual photo enthusiasts? How can the passion behind these projects be expanded to reach the casual browser, the internet bystander, the non-shooter thinkers? One of my favorite aspects of Magnum’s recent multimedia productions has been links to other reading, important articles and analysis that help inform the pictures and that the pictures help inform. Not applicable to everything that would go into burn, but might be a way to extend the reach of the pieces a bit.

  44. This is all looking great. Thanks to the people who spent the weekend traveling and working.

    It is a marvel how the web and tools thereof have progressed since I published one of the web’s first online mags during ’96-’98. I used a straight html editor.

    Will definitely supply a couple prints.

    Developers: It would help if there were an ftp site to upload images. (Sorry, I guess everyone already knows that.)

    Ciao,

    Michael

  45. M. Scott :))) Excellent question, one I’ve asked as well and this plays into other marketing aspects too, viral and otherwise … I believe the idea for the ultimate publication, online and in print, will be more than photography with an audience that is more than photographers … personally I envision literary aspects as well – from Akaky’s brilliant absurdities to essays to poetry – and melding these with photography, perhaps singles, as well as photo essays of course which will be the core focus. So many possibilities. You can certainly expand the potential reader base while not going mass media … and good photographers love great ideas, good writers love great art, etc … and there are many, many people who love a good thoughtful publication … and how many of those are there, really?

    But this will progress in stages … the next steps are coming soon but they are by no means the final steps … more of an initial restructuring while a broader and bigger project is molded … Actually I hope there never are final steps, that this whole effort remains organic, loose yet controlled at the same time, able to evolve and change free of the corporate and big biz constraints that are at this very moment playing into the destruction of the industry.

    At least that’s my broad take on things.

  46. M.

    or scott brauer?

    i remember you as the PSC golden boy..

    :o)

    hows china?

    personally i think the readership will be coming from obvious places, such as the photo industry, ama. snappers, students, people generally interested in the arts and the world around them.

    i think the secondary level will be editors, gallery owners, curators and people interested in the business of art.

    i also really hope that the magazine will connect with the public on a much broader level.. and i guess that comes with a little pr and marketing.. just the same as freelancing.. a meeting here, and a mentioned word there.

    spreading the word is not so difficult – it’s just a case of making the effort i think.. that’s how bands get broken.

    the good thing right now is that there is a captive readership ready to go and a fairly enormous page-view rate from what i understand, which is always attractive to potential sponsors and funding bodies..

    i don’t know.. could it be time for a little market research? probably.. questionnaires and business plans are unavoidably dull, yet they do prove illuminating sometimes.

  47. one thing i think the site has to have is a broad appeal..

    i don’t mean it has to be bland to appeal to all, but every story has to have a genuine and idiosyncratic spin on it..

    it needs to cover all aspects of contemporary photography and would benefit from pure conceptual work and essays just as much from humanistic projects and more..

    it would be great if the site were known for a much less narrow view of the photo world than many online resources… subject wise, lets not be purely on a crusade nor an artistic bent.. lets be on a photography track.. with all the mumblings that snappers undertake well represented.

    if the work is good, and if the base is broad, then they will come..

    oh yes.. they will come..

  48. The bUrn mock-up looks elegant as hell, professional, creative and oh so HOT! Great work, Anton et. al!

    Reading the blaze of ideas spreading like wildfire across these pages puts me in mind of a feature in this month’s Aperture mag. It’s called “The Making of a Magazine” and shows a pic of Minor White in his San Francisco studio where Aperture was born 100 years ago. Made me immensely grateful that last weekend’s birthing of our mag was photo-documented by Tom, Eric, Chris and David McG.

    We’re making history here, folks, and let’s hang onto every word and image connected with the process. Oh my god, this is SOOO EXCITING!!!!!!!!

    Patricia who wants a bUrn backpack for her scooter

  49. BTW, love the shades of gray Anton :))

    I’ll still cast my vote for light gray background with black text (or very dark gray) for the blog postings and comments themselves … can’t tell if this is where you’re going from what’s posted … love the reverses for menus, headers, cutlines, etc. but not for big blocks of text. Just my input.

    And great hot color spot on the logo … love it … and it’s better without the box. You the man, looking hot. Can’t believe how tirelessly you worked on this the whole time I was there … and well beyond I hear … couldn’t have been more impressed and geez, you were fighting them off to get back to the work … amazing. Look forward to you closing the deal … it’s going to be spectacular.

  50. tom hyde…

    the fighting off, in hindsight, might have been a bit over the top… once in a while i should’ve given in i guess :)))) well… next time :)))

    oh and, the light or dark background: you won’t be missing any of them… i think i found a way… surprise… :-)

    missing you mate

    david b

    been so long since i wrote you… i will do soon… i’m enjoying you being back here my friend… have fun in UK…

    cheers

    anton

  51. Hello, my name is Joe. I recently decided it felt better to be just someguy, i’m sorry if the anonymity offended anyone.

    it seemed appropriate to take this name as that’s pretty much what i am, just someguy that three years ago became entirely infected by photography; i now go to bed thinking about photography and it’s still the first thing on my mind when i wake up. It’s a puzzle that i can’t seem to solve so it torments me all the time.

    I hope this explains the extent of energy i’ve invested recently on this blog. Almost entirely out of self-preservation i’ve been looking for a place and a group of people that are equally infected by this puzzle. This place seems pregnant with people that have this same passion. I’m grateful that my interest in this group was not taken the wrong way, and if it was, again i’m sorry. I’m very eager to contribute with the same level of energy as others in the group. I guess i’ll just wait and see how that happens and hold on for the ride while it’s underway :-)

    Thank you David Allan Harvey for the embarrassingly gracious invite, and also David Bowen for the machine gun fire pressure to my inbox last night. Of course i have photographs to share, but i’m bored with them, i’m really only interested in the photograph i haven’t taken yet, and barring that i’d actually prefer exploring what’s going on with the photographs of other people; hence my assault on Patricia’s set ;-)

  52. Hey, it’s time to start thinking GUERILLA TACTICS.

    This has been spinning in my head for a while but I’m not yet in a position to get going on it…

    At any given moment in a city, there are vacant stores waiting to be occupied. Sometimes the transition from one occupant to another can be weeks. Often times these places are simply empty while waiting for contracts to be processed or workers to decorate and the like.

    My thinking is that these periods of vacancy offer perfect GUERILLA EXHIBITION potential. A team of people good at handling logistics could turn these places into exhibition spaces quickly and inexpensively for short periods of time. Lighting doesn’t need to be expensive. We are all experts and setting up temporary lighting. We can all put a lick of paint on walls or assemble sheets of MDF from which to display photographs.

    I’ll not go on suffice to say that you likely get my drift. This could be another area to explore as regards showing our work and works.

    Just some crazy thinking is all. But why the hell not?

    I’ll gladly prep an LE print or two.

    Back later with a crazy little stop motion film from my BOYHOOD work to show off and seek impressions.

    Cheerio

    Paulyman

    http://paultreacy.com

  53. Yeah, that’s me. I don’t know if I was the golden boy. Didn’t pay my rent, that’s for sure. Anyway, just Scott is fine.

    David B., I think you’re right that it should be a bit broader than the main photo places around online. I think a lot of people get scared off by pretension, or photography that’s too abstruse, which is why Burn feels so good; it seems like a bunch of friends here, putting together something they love, without attempts at Art or other high-mindedness, though that’s often achieved along the road, rather than as a goal. Common people making uncommon photography. This American Life for the eyes (and without the “American” part). Basically, I can’t wait to see how it all comes together…very exciting.

    And I’m afraid I don’t know Akaky just yet, but it sounds like I should make the effort!

    China’s great, by the way. But I wouldn’t know…stuck at the keyboard captioning for the archive. Which, by the way, I should get back to…

  54. ALL….

    i have read all of your comments, but please forgive me now for not being able to respond to each of you… i must finish my coffee and head for the second day of our Magnum meeting…

    the shared good vibes here is just overwhelming..now and always i will take in all of your suggestions…i will not be able to incorporate all of your ideas, but each one will be weighed carefully and implemented when and if possible..after all, that is how we even got this far…

    in this flurry of conversation, it is hard for me to remember what i have written where, and there have been so many conversations that i do not know which ones have been verbal and which are in print..by the time i launch the site i will of course give my “statement of purpose” all over again….it is all quite clear in my head …

    one thing i should say right now is that i do see BURN as more than a photo magazine/journal…i would hope that the FEATURES presented would appeal to anyone interested in the subject presented…the “making of” and the mentoring WORK IN PROGRESS will , of course, be of interest mostly to photographers, but we might be surprised at a broader appeal…and our ROAD TRIPS will be the very blog we have going now…

    so, it will go like this: (a)ideas, chat, relevant conversation, story suggestions which could lead to story development..(b) the development itself (as we have seen with Patricia, Panos, Rafal) (c) final features presented with powerful text that could come from the photographer or a writer of the photographer’s choice…

    each presented featured photographer/author will be in a collaborative process with me or with a guest editor…..no story presented will be a “surprise” to the author…you will be in the process all the way…i may just make suggestions and throw out ideas, edit etc. to be helpful to the author…i want both of us to be happy with the story before i hit the “save” button….

    there are many many other things i have on my mind, but i must run for the moment…

    stay tuned, i will be back here soonest to peruse and comment on your thoughts…

    cheers, david

  55. TOM,

    Yes, maybe a forum that’s entirely dedicated to the search for the perfect bag!

    I’m around in January. Babies not due until mid Feb (cross fingers). So look me up if you make it up this way.

    David B.

    Yes, you are right. I was just thinking out loud, and probably any insights into how a photographer made his photos will be covered in the behind the scenes section of the essays.

    Take care,

    Charles

  56. i was away for a few days and i couldn’t access the mail there. but the pace at which this project is moving is simply AWESOME. i want to thank you guys for making this HAPPEN. will be happy to be even the tiniest part of it…

    ALL THE BEST…

  57. i think the burn thing is super cool. this is a great evolution from our small blog (witch has become so big) and moved it into i think a more fitting direction. as david put ” a seat at the table” i think its really great and i would love to purchase anything to be able to support this!

    PEACE

    m

  58. welcome, joe!

    i’ve seen you over at magnum too.

    i really enjoy your thoughtful comments

    and your broad grasp of matters.

    you add a lot.

    glad you’re here.

    all–

    the xmas feast for my street kids is ON! :))

    much heart-felt thanks to kerry, erica and patricia for helping to make it happen.

    i am overwhelmed with gratitude..

    bowing,

    katia

    “Forget phraseology

    I want burning, Burning.”

    ~ Rumi

    ;)

    .

  59. JOE

    Hi! I recognize you from the Magnum blog! So happy you’ve joined us here, and especially happy that we can now see your work and call you by name. I’ve just spent time with your essay, “Rajasthan’s Camel Crisis” and am impressed, moved and educated by both photos and text. You tell the story with skill and compassion. Looking forward to exploring your other essays as time permits. I will always be grateful to you for your indepth review of my Falling Into Place project.

    KATIA

    It is we who should be thanking you for what you bring to these young people of Seattle’s streets. You are my shero!

    Patricia

  60. I feel the need to be pointless yet again…

    There are twelve days of Christmas, and I’m sure if you’ve somehow managed to forget that fact over the course of the year retailers from one end of this our Great Republic to the other will forcibly refresh your memory for the next few weeks. Whether you want to or no, you will hear in great detail about lords leaping and laying ladies while pipers pipe and voyeuristic geese pay five gold rings just to watch. I’ve always wondered why just about every picture of Times Square before its current incarnation as Disney World North had a goose or two in the background. There were just too many of them for this to be some sort of odd ornithological coincidence.

    But avian porn is not the subject of this screed, so let us move on before the police arrive. The subject of today’s lecture is the twelve days of Christmas and what they mean to me in five easy lessons. For the better part of the late and deeply unlamented twentieth century it was the fashion among a certain set of people to bemoan the commercialization of Christmas, that the demands of Mammon were stifling the essentially religious nature of the holiday, even to the point where that great philosopher and theologian Linus Van Pelt had to explain to Charlie Brown what Christmas was all about by quoting the Gospel according to Luke. Charlie Brown did not seem impressed by this argument, falling, as it did, between commercials for Benson & Hedges cigarettes and the new 1967 Ford Mustangs.

    The fact of the matter is that Christmas has always been a commercial bonanza, a state of affairs that began when the Roman Emperor Constantine decided that maybe Christianity wasn’t such a bad idea after all. Constantine came to this conclusion after he’d had a dream the night before the battle of the Milvian Bridge in which he saw a shield emblazoned with a Christian cross bearing the words IN HOC SIGNO VINCES (in this sign you shall conquer). After the alarm slave went off the next morning, clocks being fairly scarce in those days, Constantine put Christian crosses on his soldiers’ shields; as the enemy army outnumbered by about four to one, Constantine figured any edge he could get was a good one; and then proceeded to march out and stomp on the competition big time.

    Having won the crown in a pretty convincing fashion—Constantine didn’t have to dangle Chad over a cliff or anything—the new emperor decided to return the favor God did him and make Christianity the state religion of the Roman Empire. Once a faith exclusively practiced by the most rejected and despised elements of Roman society, the Christian faith became the most inclusive faith in the Mediterranean world since now everyone and their Uncle Bob had to join whether they wanted to or not, everyone, that is, except Constantine himself. Unlike, for example, Marshal Feng, the twentieth century Chinese warlord who converted to Methodism and then decided that his army should convert as well, and sped up his army’s salvation by having them stand in formation while they were baptized with holy water sprayed from a fire hose, Constantine chose to exempt himself from the revival, correctly figuring that if he stayed a pagan he could go on doing all the fun stuff that pagans got to do like murdering his political opponents, seizing their property, and selling their families into slavery without this sort of thing bothering his conscience all that much. If he was still a pagan, after all, who could blame him for acting like one?

    Our current holiday problem started when Constantine decided that a holiday celebrating the birth of Jesus would be just the thing to make himself look good on The O’Reilly Factor. There was, however, one small problem: no one knew when Jesus was born. The Gospels simply say that the birth occurred when Quirinius was the governor of Syria. This might have been enough information in the hands of a competent archivist to pinpoint a likely date, but competent archivists were hard to find in ancient Rome due to the Roman mob’s insatiable appetite for watching overweight, middle-aged clerical types with the wife, the 2.7 kids, the dog, and a thirty year mortgage on a house in the suburbs try to stab each other to death with quill pens in the Coliseum.

    Constantine, having no solid information to work with, asked the Senate and the people of Rome what they thought of July 15th as the date for Christmas. The Senate and the people of Rome, mindful of the fact that Constantine had the bad habit of feeding people who disagreed with him to lions and tigers and bears, oh my, for the entertainment of the people in the cheap seats, told Constantine that July 15th was a wonderful idea. Roman retailers, on the other hand, mindful of losing the 4th of July and Bastille Day sales, told him that while his idea was wonderful, it would be even more wonderful at some other time of the year. One clever gent who owned a shoe store on the Appian Way suggested, after giving the matter some thought, that the Emperor make December 25th the date for his new holiday.

    Now it was Constantine’s turn to object. At a meeting of the Imperial Chamber of Commerce, he quite rightly pointed out that December 25th was already a holiday, the feast of Invictus Sol and his brother Herschel, the inventors of the pneumatic Roman army chariot wheel and can opener, a device upon which the good fortune of the Roman Empire did not rely in the slightest. Then Constantine had the Pope read the relevant portions of the Gospel of Luke. The Pope stumbled through the text, His Holiness being unused to reading anything longer than an address; he had come to Rome to get a job in the Post Office in Gaul and wound up as Pope for lack any other available employment; and after he finished reading Constantine asked the retailers how they proposed to get around the Gospel’s clearly pointing to a summer date for Christ’s birth. After all, first century Judean shepherds did not keep flocks of sheep out on barren hillsides by night in the middle of winter just on the off chance that a passing heavenly host with some free time on their hands would wander by belting out their rendition of Handel’s ‘Hallelujah Chorus’ in digitally remastered stereophonic sound. Clearly, December 25th did not meet the high burden of theological and historical proof required for such an august feast day.

    Then someone, possibly the shoemaker who first suggested the idea of the 25th, or maybe his twin brother—no one could really tell them apart—told the Emperor something that emperors, as a class, love to hear: he was emperor, therefore he could put the holiday anywhere he felt like putting it. And so he did, on the 25th day of December, the high burden of historical and theological proof bending slightly in deference to Constantine’s need for campaign contributions; not everyone in the Roman Empire thought that Constantine’s being emperor was such a good idea and he needed money fast; armies, then and now, don’t come cheaply.

    Well, over the centuries more and more days got added to Christmas; travel was slow in those days and most people had to use oxcarts that only got twelve miles to the dry gallon of oats, despite the best efforts of the ruminant companies to meet new government mileage standards. The retailers, however, loved the ever-lengthening Christmas season and did their level best to stretch the season out even more. Matters came to a head in 800 A.D., when on the first day of Christmas the Pope crowned Charlemagne Holy Roman Emperor and Charlemagne discovered that he and his entourage were stuck in Rome until the end of Christmas, which occurred sometime in the middle of April. This was a major source of annoyance for Charlemagne, who wanted to go home for the holidays, and so in his third official act, the first two being an announcement that alternate side of the street parking rules were in effect and the world’s first pooper scooper law, Charlemagne decreed that Christmas would only last for twelve days.

    Retailers throughout Europe objected, which seems to be a theme here, saying that a twelve day Christmas season would drive them out of business; there wasn’t enough time for the scribes to pump out advertising copy in a twelve day season. Charlemagne said, tough luck, pal, in Latin and French, and doesn’t almost everything sound better in Latin and French, and then left town with the imperial crown in his luggage, as well as a couple of counterfeit Rolexes he’d bought from a Senegalese immigrant who’d set up his blanket in front of St. Peter’s Basilica.

    The retailers, of course, did not go down without a fight. They’ve been pushing the seasonal envelope ever since Charlemagne rode Out of Town for a second place finish in the fifth race at the Roman Aqueduct. This explains why today, in our modern postindustrial information society, the official Christmas season begins with the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade and why we still have an annoying carol about the twelve days of Christmas. The unofficial Christmas season, of course, begins near the end of August. This may be why everyone is so happy when Christmas finally arrives—it means that we won’t hear about the damn day again for at least another eight months, something for which we should all shout, Hallelujah and Happy Holidays to all and to all, a good night!

  61. AKAKY, AKAKY, AKAKY…

    when human cloning begins, I hope they start with you…

    JOE,

    glad you’re here… you’re a fine addition to an already fine collective.

    BURN TEAM

    to you, I gather my skirts, and curtsy…

    v.v. exciting times all!

  62. DAVID

    Just so you don’t have to search the old posts to find the link to my new “possibles” for the edit you’ll be doing with my prints, here it is:

    http://www.pbase.com/windchimewalker/for_review16

    PASSWORD patricia

    The one that to me is a definite keeper is:

    http://www.pbase.com/windchimewalker/image/106909993

    There are a few others I like but that one really speaks to me.

    And speaking of “speaking,” I’ve been working on my text and am pleased with how it’s developing. Whenever you’re ready, I can email it to you.

    I’ll be working at home tomorrow (Wednesday) so feel free to call during or after your edit. It would be great if we could discuss it a bit while it’s fresh in your mind. If tomorrow doesn’t work for you, it’ll happen when it happens. I’m cool.

    As always, please know how grateful I am for ALL you do!!!

    hugs

    Patricia

  63. Gustavo Aragon Garcia

    All

    great job thank you, tons of inspiration from your hard work

    sorry for my english

    adios

  64. AKAKY – i hope i come back as you in my next life.

    JOE – welcome to the family. what images did Patricia see of yours – did you post a link or website?

  65. :-)))) Thanks,…. Thanks, Glenn, Panos, Katia, Patricia, Kerry and Gina for the kind introductions :-) I look forward to exploring all of your photographs more than i have so far from your links :-)

    Patricia, thanks for the feedback, don’t go down that rabbit hole, you’ve been warned ;-) But now that I’m me now I’ll e-mail you more of the feelings that i collect from your work, maybe it will introduce some more ideas ;-)

    Gina i hide my website, it’s too much of a reminder of how dorky i was when i designed it, but i’ve added a link to the list of essays and images i’ve collected to my name-link in this post. , if you venture into the route domain, make sure your volume is turned off or you’ll want to cut your ears off :-)

    Note to self… rework site to be less gimmicky! Speaking of sites. ANTON the presentation of Burn looks very much the business! You should be very proud!

    ..

  66. ALL

    I came to a surprising realization today–I don’t really want to finish this project (“Falling Into Place”) even if it means a book comes out of it! I love working on projects, especially long-term ones that I can really sink my teeth into. Guess I’m more a “process” person. This is not to say I won’t continue to work towards a book emerging from this project, it’s just that I’m glad I have six more months to take photos. It’s going to be hard to give that up…

    Do others know what I’m talking about? If you’ve had your work published, does it become a bit of a melancholy pleasure? After working on something for a long time, how does it feel to have it done?

    Don’t get me wrong, if a book does come out of this work, that will be amazing. But will it equal the joy I feel when I get up every morning with new ideas and creative challenges? I wonder. Seems to me all I’ll want to do is come up with another essay subject as quickly as possible. I’m already wondering what that might be.

    I’d love to hear others’ thoughts on this. It doesn’t matter whether or not you’ve had your work published. We’ve all had the experience of completing a project. How is it to let go of the old and start over with something new?

    Patricia

  67. PATRICIA

    Its always a little sad when you move on from one subject to the next but perhaps because of the sort of long term stuff I have been involved with I just find that somehow or other the stories just run into one another.

    It just keeps on flowing…

  68. Patricia,

    But maybe that your book is only the first volume ? You could make several books on you, as Sarah Moon, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (I have not bought them yet but I love the idea!) maybe that you just realize the first chapter ?

    Just an idea…

    audrey

  69. patricia..

    i know exactally what you mean.

    it’s always been my intention to make books.. and i have yet to make one, just for that reason.

    18 until 24 years old i wanted to do a book on tibetans in exile..

    exhibited when i was 25.. and left it because i needed one more trip (hopefully in 2009 it will be complete)..

    and then music..

    i though a few years for a book.. free-parties and the english scene..

    10 years later.. and it’s a big lump of negatives to get through..

    i think with your work the first book you get out could be the first of a few you know.. an initial introduction which, while a superb product on it’s own, could easily be added to with others.

    this is quite common in photography books.. a single subject being carried over time in more than one book.

    i think your project would be worth that investment and i think if you’re still digging what your doing then keep on..

    the book will take a year or two to reach the shelves in any case, so i would guess that getting a publishing deal now would still allow for a 6 month or years worth of shooting before going to print?

    joe.. machine gun fire emails to your inbox :o)

    quite..

    my lover and son arrive home again today after a week away and i i’ll probably disappear form the interweb again for a while.. while they were away what is there to do but photography? what else to talk about?

    :o)

    going to england on sunday for 3 weeks.. christmas at home and traveling around – so if anyone here is in blighty and feels like a beer, let me know… not sure we will make it to edinborough, joe, but you never know.

    david@bophoto.co.uk

    patricia.. still intending for may.. xx

  70. m. scott

    archiving is a nightmare..

    from now on i am going to do things properly with new work.. filing.. selecting a folio print or two from each shoot..

    my biggest problam now with archiving has been lazyness in the past, but i’m finally at the point i can begin to relax a little.. not too much.

    where in china are you? Sean, EPF award recipient last year, is over there..

  71. x

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    ALL: Burn is a ‘cool’ title. ‘Being real’ as a person has always been more important to me.

    At this moment, ‘burn’ conjures up a city icon in flames and the marks left by sulphuric acid on the perfect skin of teenagers.

    DAVID: Thank you for your message. Perhaps the sequence came across as news because of the captions? Actually, I was simply recording what was going on outside my front door over a period of days. I heard a couple of bomb blasts and went outside. I found a spot where I could watch and stayed there for many hours over days – the square between Mumbai’s 2 most famous landmarks – 2-3 minutes walk away which was filled with police, military, journalists and photographers.

    APOLOGIES TO ANYONE THAT MY IMAGES FROM MUMBAI OFFENDED. I WOULD EITHER LIKE TO REMOVE THEM OR BE PERMITTED TO PUT UP WHAT I RECORDED IN THE FOLLOWING DAYS BUT HAVE NOT HAD ACCESS TO LIGHTSTALKERS SINCE I PUT THEM UP THERE.

    Peace,

    Jenny

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  72. Jenny Lynn Walker

    PS

    LISA: Did you receive my last email message re. the above? I have not heard back from you either. Sorry it was ‘reactive’ or ‘over the top’. I am extremely tired and getting impatient. It has been a long time to be ‘blocked’ and though it may be sheer coincidence, the timing has not helped. Only the first half of those days I recorded is up…

    Peace,

    Jenny

  73. Wow, that mock-up looks very good, indeed!! It feels great. It is minimal enough to host whatever different photographic aspect without getting into the way and vice versa. Anton and the Kibbutz-Crew: it looks like you did a phantastic job in an extremely short time! Very professional.

    Good platfort to build upon. You should be proud! I am very thankful that you were there to do this job. I know it usually looks so much easyer than it is. Especially when it comes to details.

    I think it was David B who thought aloud with having stories “featured by”, or “sponsored by” a certain company and to have a small & elegant logo at the end or the beginning of the essay showing it. I find this very appealing! Also for a company. It is not the size of the logo that matters, or some kind of weird animation to it … I thing everyone has understood this by now. Or should have :) If a logo is put in the way I think David B has meant, it would not only look more elegant but also more … “precious”, “sofisticated”(not the right word but I hope you know what I mean). Burn is not supposed to be a cheap market seller, regardless of how broad the public is, we want to reach out to.

    Just my 2cents… :)

    Also I am of David B’s oppinion as to the gear … Even though I know I should be looking more at these things (maybe there could be some kind of linklist), but I do not see it in BURN itself …

    JOE,

    Wecome! Yes, as so many here I also noticed you at the Magnum Blog lately. Good to have you here!

    ALL

    as to print donations … I will be glad to provide some! But I think I will need some help from you with chosing what could be best for BURN. If I think of the feedback I get regarding my photos, which sometimes sounds like a disgusted scream, I would not want to choose anything that maybe I like but nobody else would want …

    Most of my stuff is not online… I will have to think of how to get this together in a good way, so I could have MY images (easy part) but still something of use for BURN (not so easy part).

    BURN-BAG-TEAM

    I am desperately waiting for one of the branded bags!!! I have one camera bag (a waterproof Freytag-bag), which I find perfect if it were not so flat. So I need something else for my travels.

    :))))))

  74. Here’s a crazy little film for you from my BOYHOOD work. Not quite BURN material but an interesting exercise for me none the less. I was stuck and this attempt to loosen up resulted. Hope you like it. Turn up the volume.

    Impressions welcome.

    Paulyman.

  75. PATRICIA

    If you don’t really want to finish your project, is it not then actually finished?

    Perhaps it’s just time for a break. It seems to have been very intense after all. Please do alert us all if and when you do return to it.

    Such a book will definitely go into my meagre collection. I really hope you publish.

  76. PATRICIA,

    about long term projects… I think I know what you mean, even though I would not pin it to publishing a book.

    Unfortunately (?) I have the tick to somehow make long term projects out of almost everything. Things always get terribly huge when I start working on them, the idea always grows and grows until I could spent my whole life doing one single thing. Which I do not want to! Strangely enough I am actually very short span interested. I am an architect but I could not work as one because the project take too long for my liking. It would drive me mad. If things take longer than 6 weeks I loose interest.

    Normally.

    But it depends on the project, as I found out. Because there are these where you can work on forever and you will still not know what the next day will be like & where the adventure will take you. And these are the kind of long term projects I am thriving for. I simply love them because they do not give me more than a reason to leave the house in the morning, they give me a frame, but only chances will tell what will be inside. For me they are like “life” but with an automatically embedded sense!! I guess that is what makes it so appealing for me, who has a hard time with religion etc. It gives me a (false?) sense and purpose in what I am doing. See what I mean? It is as I had written to DAH once: the question and the answer I needed in life together in one package.

    So this is why I think I understand your thoughts as to your long term project and your reluctancy to finish it. But as pointed out already, you do not have to finish – let it be an ongoing project. You can publish anyway. And maybe you will find another long term project to dance with … In my oppinion it is quite helpful to get a little distance from a project once and a while to get a fresh view at it.

    Well, at least that is how I usually do it. :))))

  77. PATRICIA,

    about long term projects… I think I know what you mean, even though I would not pin it to publishing a book.

    Unfortunately (?) I have the tick to somehow make long term projects out of almost everything. Things always get terribly huge when I start working on them, the idea always grows and grows until I could spent my whole life doing one single thing. Which I do not want to! Strangely enough I am actually very short span interested. I am an architect but I could not work as one because the project take too long for my liking. It would drive me mad. If things take longer than 6 weeks I loose interest.

    Normally.

    But it depends on the project, as I found out. Because there are these where you can work on forever and you will still not know what the next day will be like & where the adventure will take you. And these are the kind of long term projects I am thriving for. I simply love them because they do not give me more than a reason to leave the house in the morning, they give me a frame, but only chances will tell what will be inside. For me they are like “life” but with an automatically embedded sense!! I guess that is what makes it so appealing for me, who has a hard time with religion etc. It gives me a (false?) sense and purpose in what I am doing. See what I mean? It is as I had written to DAH once: the question and the answer I needed in life together in one package.

    So this is why I think I understand your thoughts as to your long term project and your reluctancy to finish it. But as pointed out already, you do not have to finish – let it be an ongoing project. You can publish anyway. And maybe you will find another long term project to dance with … In my oppinion it is quite helpful to get a little distance from a project once and a while to get a fresh view at it.

    Well, at least that is how I usually do it. :))))

  78. PAUL

    fantastic!!! Love it (even with volume down)!!

    The dynamic you generate with this kind of sequence with the camera “jumping” around like it is, is much more impressive and captivating than it would be with an “ordingary” video.

    Have you done more of these kind of movies we could have a look at?

    BTW, these little ones have your face. Your kids, I suppose? Very, very sweet …

  79. Thank you, Lassal. You know, I’ve been struggling since I got back to London and really have been unsure as to what the hell to do with myself. Stills doesn’t really cut it anymore in terms of supporting a family. For me at least. I really don’t want to go back to shooting news and I’m hugely excited by video and multimedia. So I’m trying to figure out a route back to regular employment and increasingly video seems to really engage me but I have NO training nor do I have any gear. But my skills level is improving very quickly as I dabble.

    But as soon as Christmas is gone I need to make money. I need kit. And I need confidence which can so easily evaporate when you’ve been out of the loop for as long as I have. Fearless youngsters scare the hell out of me. They don’t need much money, nor do they have much responsibility. So what to do?

    I’ve been uploading my archive in hopes of getting some money flowing that way and while out and about I snap and snap and just play with the pictures. Somethings really going on but I’m not entirely sure what it is but I LIKE IT. What spurred me to make these little films is a competition that the Guardian and Canon are running called FREECORDING and I’ve been playing with that word. FREECORDING. It’s great. It’s an exciting word. And it’s my future. I know it. I’m not sure how or why but it is.

    I really want to feature well in this contest ’cause it would provide me with a video camera. So that’s why I’m doing these little films. And to loosen up too.

    In January I’ll put up a PHOTOHUMOURIST IN MOTION website to show my experiments.

    Sorry. I’ve had way too much coffee.

    And I’m about to have some more.

    Pauly.

  80. LASSAL thanks :-) i just lost a couple of hours over on your site. i’m still undecided if i envy more your images or your fresco experiences! what a photogenic crowd!

  81. Hey David,

    Im changing jobs so from now on I will have much less time for the computer…my old job had a lot of office time for this, not anymore. But I did want to take the chance now to say that this thing looks awesome. Magnificent. Im sure you know my enthusiasm for this project. Im sure it will be a success.

  82. Talking of jobs, I’m about to re-train as a swimming teacher to keep me busy as I figure this stills v video situation out. I was a lifeguard / swim teacher almost 20 years ago. Looking forward to doing it again.

    Lassal, I love looking at your site. There’s so much there. So much exploring to do.

    Pauly.

  83. Joe, how did you manage to create the impression of moving slides around a light table on your site? Love it. Very effective. Brought back memories. Yours is a very full site too.

  84. DAH /ALL

    been thinking of the possible importance of having a launch party for burn (at the loft?), which could also be a fundraising event where our donated prints were sold/auctioned/as well as having online bids..

    DAH do you remember in 2005 when Jen MacFarlane coordinated Spice? http://www.hustlerofculture.com/me_we/2005/01/nyc_spice_openi.html

    Obviously burn is not a humanitarian crisis, but possibly your peers at Magnum would see the relevance of burn and be willing to contribute a signed book or such to auction off at the party/online?

  85. PAUL

    I understand … And I really admire you! Yes, not having children or people dependent on you is an advantage! Not only because of insurances … If the economical situation becomes critical, and you have to care for more than for yourself, it is tough and surely it makes us think twice before bold and risky steps are taken.

    If you allow me a story …

    A friend of mine was in a similar situation not long ago. He had some experiences as a camera man but they gave him mixed feelings and he had not found either his “voice” nor his “message”. I met him while he was doing animatics for agencies (I was doing the illustrations and he was the After Effects hero) He was earning ok, but it was not meaning anything to him … and then again … animatics come and go and sometimes you simply do not get any. So it was not the best situation for him, even though he was a gifted person to create acceptable short term results, which is very important when you deal with agencies.

    Ok. First thing that happened is that he found something that mattered to him. Something way off, actually he found other people who were trying to live their dreams and got infected by this. The room is called “Gastraum” and the people he met were … cooks. Well trained cooks who left their working spaces to create somethin unique, something where they would respect whatever mother nature provided for the kitchen. For example: they only used goats cheese when goats cheese is naturally available (thus not during wintertime), or, if they had an animal slaughtered, then they would try to use most of it, and not just the filets. They were really good and really creative with that but … nobody knew about it!!! So they were not making a difference.

    They wrote a concept that got accepted in tv right away but would have transformed them into some kind of robotesc show cooks. And they wanted genuinity. They wanted it to be credible. They had left the comfort zone to do what they thought was right and did not want to put this ideal down for a silly tv-show. Even if it would have made them rich.

    That was when this friend of mine sad: let us do it ourselves! And he came up with an idea of how to film it. And they would make reportages with the people who provided the products etc… All for the net. All for free.

    To make a long story short: it got so damn good! And so incredible famous that they were invited to all kind of places, even the US – despite the fact that the site is just in German.

    Yes … and a few months after this little project started, my friend got the first assignments for commercials. BIG HUGHE things!

    Absolutely amazing! We have not managed to talk for weeks because he is constantly shooting. And … because he had found his style and companies were asking for THAT, he is happy. Very much so.

    Paul, I hope this does stimulate you … I really do. At least you are finding something special there. Ever thought of MTV?

    Something else: I know it has been mentioned here somewhere, when the Nikon D90 came out and some people were disappointed with quality or so of the videos … I was wondering, because this friend of mine did some absolutely amazing things with it. As you can use the different lenses, you get results you will not get by a normal video camera … He did 3 or 4 home videos with the D90, simple things including his daughter, lover and dog, but using different looks by experimenting with the lenses. He said, he was merely playing around enjoying the new parameters …

    Well, needless to say … he got some more amazing jobs because of that.

    When he tells me the stories now it seems so easy …. But I know how down he was not even two years ago, so I can put it into context. And at the end it is once again about something that David keeps talking about: find yourself, find your voice, find what is important for you, and it will all fall into place because you will not be against something, you will be going with it, and you will be running ahead!

    Paul, I really wish you a lot of luck, a strong inner voice and good ears to listen.

    And sorry if this post got so long and I just managed to get back to one of DAH’s core messages right at the end …

  86. Oops it was a really long post, the last one. Apologies.

    JOE / ALL

    :) thanks so much :)

    I am sure the “fresco-experience” is it!!!! Belive me! And the great thing about it is, that TPW just came out with the new workshop calendar for 2009 … it might be worthy for some of you to have a look and considder ….

    http://tpw.it/english/calendar2009.htm

    DAH will be there from the 19-25.July (he changed shedules as it seems) together with Stanley Greene, Kadir von Lohuizen and others …

    I can more than recommend it!

    ERICA,

    a launch party would be nice …

    Let’s plan early in advance… I am sure a lot of people would love to make it possible to come over…

    PAUL

    thanks for the comment about my site … “There’s so much there”, you wrote and you are right. I keep recalling DAH warning us about having too much stuff on our sites.

    I know I have too much on it – but somehow I cannot help it. At least not yet. So I have mixed feelings about it … while I keep uploading projects and images and stupid comments.

  87. LASSAL

    I enjoyed reading the comment to Paul…its so easy to get spread thin trying to make money while losing your own voice in your images…anyway its nice to be read stories from time to time of why you need to keep coming back to yourself

    also I like your selection of books on your website…I’ve been thinking about the self-publishing concept in limited editions and it just seems way more personal (and valuable) in my opinion…of course a book published by a publishing house and on the shelves in major book stores is obviously great but I like the idea of the limited edition “art” books that we are now able to create in short runs or on-demand due to printing technology

    ~ chris h

  88. Lassal

    The video quality of the d90 really depends on what your definition of quality is… as always things are relative.

    The video is good, however there are some issues when it comes to compression and certain weird ‘jellie’ video effects during certain situations.

    Would anyone notice it if you had an amazing subject, composition and lighting… NO!!! but it doesn’t excuse the fact that nikon could do a little better.

    I personally can’t wait to experiment with this video idea, so I’ll report back when the funds are a little better to have one in my hands and produce some work with it.

    Peace and Love, Peace and Love!! – Ringo Starr

  89. KARIM

    yeah, I remember that my friend was extremely bothered by the jelly-effect you mentioned. Certain things, so he said, you have to avoid doing.

    But then, which I maybe should not say, or maybe should – I left my friend anonymous anyway: He is NOT the world’s best camera man!

    In fact I was wondering sometimes why he would not notice this or that (which annoyed me extremely). Nonetheless he was being credible because it was absolutely clear that he was doing something special.

    What I want to say with this is: he got the Über-Clients anyway! And they came to him, because he is absolutely not a good marketing man.

    So … you do not have to be perfect. Just be unique! Just be yourself.

    And this one is something I should write on my own mirror to, so I see it every morning. I am much too perfectionistic and hold back things forever, or hide behind names. I have (had) two artist’s names where I was trying out things. One I eliminated already, and the other one is till active somewhere out there in the waste universe of creativity.

    CHRIS

    thanks :) Man I wish I had YOUR BACKYARD!!! Awesome …!!! And I usually have a hard time with most landscapes …

    As to self publishing. It has two sides for me. The positive: you can do everything yourself. The negative: you have to do everything yourself. I usually like it for experiment. Or if I really want to have something a specific way. Or if I … want something in a reasonable amount of time.

    There are two books in the making (forever now) which will really be published (not by me). And actually I am constantly waiting for something or someone to deliver their parts. Now for example I am waiting for the text from a curator/art historian. I have been waiting for months and will have to wait some more, if I got his last email right. He is successfull and much too busy. Good for him and bad for my book. Next thing I will have to do is to change the layout and to calm the publisher, who is waiting like me. And he is paying, so this is absolutely wrong. Regarding the other project, well … they are discussing the paper right now. Too many people involved there who want to leave their mark. The whole thing is going to be a piece of art. And I think it is going to take years until I have it onto my table.

    That is why I do the self-publishing experiments once in a while. I think I might expand it even more, and make little editions of handmade dummies, like pieces of art, myself. I just really like to hold something in my hand … Especially because work has become very virtual … and much more so if what I hold in my hand has a precious character…

  90. PAUL – thanks :-) that is a postcard widget and is a bit of a flash-hack, but you can now have something like this more easily:

    http://www.RealReportage.com/Portrait/

    …using the flash widget available from airtight interactive, it actually comes free with lightroom ;-) I actually prefer the gallery viewer that Panos uses, i’m considering reconsidering my galleries widget since i saw his.

    LASSAL, i’ll be taken out my italian refresher cd’s for a trip to tuscany in 2009 now ;-) Cheers.

    ..

  91. hmmm…

    where is everybody?

    Just checked if there is a new post and I kinda missed it again … But no.

    Ok.

    Coming back to my reluctancy in showing material which I am not completely secure off, I left a post at the end of the last thread – very fittingly but completely unaware of that everyone had already left for the new thread.

    So as I do not want to look like a coward, here it goes (and with link!!!)

    ***

    By the way, I just dropped out of EPF, I fear. I pushed the reset-button on my project and will start more or less over. Just wrote David an email about it. I might still have enough images, but I am not sure about it.

    I had just finished programming the flash-parts and it kind of fell apart as I saw it together for the first time. So I’ll do it over. No problem.

    Guess I’ll have a lot of free time in 2009 :)

    http://www.astrangerswish.com

    ***

    NEIL

    thanks for your kind words, they are really helpful as I sometimes fear, I am working for myself too much. Without feedback, I mean.

    The reset happened already. Eric kind of got a glimpse of it before I switched the site off in the middle of the night to get some of the portraits off it (those where you have no link to an image anymore).

    It is just that I found out that some kind of portraits – especially because they just come tiny on the website – simply will not work in this group. So it kind of clarified the way I will proceed from now on.

    Kind of …

    I am still waiting for a quiet moment to sit down with DAH and to go over it. Just to make sure I do not have a twist in my sight right now.

    As soon as I have more material – and I have quite some “applications” now – I might take some more of the “old” ones out. Not sure. It will have to be a good final result. What you see now is “work in progress” and it will stay this way for many more years to come. During this time I might take things off or put old stuff in once more. It will be like an organism trying to find a balance … It is one of these long-term projects I was telling Patricia about … :)

    ALL

    I would be very, very happy if you could give me some feedback as to this project. How do you think this should work considering the aim of having more than … let’s say 1000 (maybe 800 or maybe 5000)… portraits in it?

    I have found quite some pitfalls already and probably there are a 1000 more to come.

    This is just the beginning so I can still change whatever I like without loosing too much.

    The website is just a framework, to be able to archive and browse through it. It is not 100% done yet, but I think it is quite important to keep the information together.

    Especially if the project is supposed to grow as I hope it will.

    Any ideas & comments & links to reference material would be very much welcome.

    Thanks & all,

    L

  92. LASSAL

    This is a GREAT IDEA… I can see it as a book… not sure how many portraits — maybe 200? but in as many countries/continents that you can get to… if it’s going to be web-based, audio would be a nice addition…

    –thanks for sharing !!

    your photographs are strong and of a long tradition —

    check out this blog post by james danziger —

    http://pictureyear.blogspot.com/2008/11/sander-sensibility.html

    — take care!

  93. david alan harvey

    HELLO ALL…

    tomorrow will be a relatively free day for me and i will be able to respond to all of your comments..rushing now for a lecture at ICP…

    we will chat tomorrow…

    cheers, david

  94. David

    I apologize for my absence during so important time for this forum and for you. I have crazy time now, but soon it should be over. I think You know, this is always pleasure to participete in every big moment for this forum for me, but for a while I will be only reader.

    Of course if you think I could help in any case, just give me a note. As usually.

    sorry for english but I have no mind for grammar. :)

    peace for all.

    ps. I have to paint one of the Stations of the Cross at 30x30cm convas with effect like rubens at 200×150 cm. in one day… of course.

    so wish me luck, like I wish you with “our baby BURN”. :)

  95. PATRICIA makes you wonder about the benefit that transpires here for free when you see the cost of the ticket to see DAH for a short while! ;-)

    LASSAL, LASSAL, LASSAL…Lassal, off the top of my head I can only think of three people who have social skills to pull this project off and only two capable of the moody ambiguous portraits needed for this project, My friend Ben Roberts is one of them and after looking at the inception of your project I think you are the second.

    But you may totally hate what I think is necessary to move this concept past mediocre. That’s ok too.. Promise! But right now you’re attempting to infuse power through numbers and the counts you’re throwing around are insane!! Lassal, if you want to pursue the spirit of this project then I think instead you should infuse power through an increase in intimacy and vulnerability and chance, rather than count and geography.

    You need to produce a result that lets us feel more like voyeurs than passengers on a tourist-city, double-decker bus. You’ve already got the portrait skills, but do you have the testicular fortitude to take your project effort to a level most would cower from?

    If i was given this project Lassal i would meet with as many strangers or acquaintances as i could (i already do this, so maybe it just seems easy to me), after earning enough trust to move past stranger into an acquaintance, if not already, i would explain my interest to include their portrait in a project i was working on, i would show them a book that i carry with me that provides evidence of the calibre of portraits i can make (i don‘t have this book Lassal, but you have enough enviable portraits to have one!).

    If they still seemed interested i would further explain that the project was deeper than just a book of pictures, it was actually a book of confessions, or apologies, or regrets, or any other baggage that the person was carrying around that they’d like to think about, write down on a post card, and when they had time, send back to me, as if to finally get it off there chest. (there’s something still a bit romantic about post-cards and mail and stamps…)

    i would promise them that i would have the film developed by the time i received the card and i would promise to send them the image as a print or e-mailed as an electronic image if they wish…. After i received the post card with the information and the delivery instructions.

    a Simple equation. i would leave them feeling that i felt deeply about the project and they would know that the return should be sincere or not at all.

    i would state in the opening of the book that comes out of this project that This Was My Way of Working, simple,…simple but so efffing unnerving!

    thinking about this to us as spectators already makes your heart jump a bit… people that hear this for the first time will already be sitting on their hands biting their nails wondering what kind of results you collected?, what kind of humility you went through to make this happen?, and better yet, what’s in those post-cards? and better yet, what does the person look like that said that?.. And the triple crown… what’s their name? and where are they from?.. Some will prefer to give only an e-mail address, this is ok as we really only wish to have the confession and the portrait to match it and they want to get it off their chest and also likely get the best portrait that will ever be produced of them.

    i think the idea of the post card from the home town is a very nice add and maybe during the edit you have enough returns that you may only include this combination, but first I think it’s important to get these returns sent to you.

    The portrait session is key to this exercise Lassal. i really don’t understand what happens during a portrait session, but at its best it’s as intimate as you’re going to get to someone with their clothes still on. i would suggest you use only natural light and only a medium format camera (creates more ceremony than a digital/35mm), better yet get an old Hassy on the cheap if you really want to disarm your subject.

    i promise you Lassal that if you run that portrait session well, you will bond with that person and become someone they want to tell something to, i know this from experience. It’s just enough anonymity to be vulnerable and just enough relationship to reveal… think about it… how many times do total strangers bare their sole to you anyways? This is a similar dynamic, make yourself that priest!

    I get anxious just thinking about this ambitious effort Lassal and already want to know how it would play out! I get excited at the fact that you suddenly have an excuse to talk to so many people that you’ve never talked to before and if successful, and more importantly, you get to know them on a level subtly past superficial or antidotal from a ‘story’ ;-(

    Even if you totally suck at this project Lassal you would be a stronger human from the effort! No duress, not growth! It’s the hermetic way!

    Or you can just think this is a ridiculous idea! I promise it won’t hurt my feelings if you did. ;-)

  96. wow … how will I answer to this now?!

    I was just checking the wonderful link from “a reader” and loosing myself in the images when I saw this post here now from Joe – and now yours Patricia.

    A READER / ALL

    this blog post by james danziger —

    http://pictureyear.blogspot.com/2008/11/sander-sensibility.html is really worth looking at.

    In fact I have managed to acquire the whole set of books from August Sander 10 days ago!!! I am sooooo happy about it and … so astonished: It is less than half the price it used to be. A dumping price for this amazing work that comes in 7 beautiful hardcover books … So if anyone is interested, you should check this out now.

    Makes me sad though, to see how much it seems to be “worth” now…

    JOE

    well, to be sincere, the first thing that came to my mind when I read your post was “I love you!” and a big smile on my face.

    Apart from some little things we are not soooo far away. At least not anymore. The project was a small workshop idea at the beginning, and I had people write greetings from their places to me, the tourist that was passing by. More or less inverting the normal way these things are done. That was ok for a week’s workshop but not for more. Things would repeat themselves and be really superficial … So I started with the little personal “stories”, anekdotes or something that still could be related to the place on the card, at least vaguely, to somehow connect the location (which I do not see on the portraits at present) with the person. The pitfall with the card was that … like in Helsinki, you find just very few different motifs on it (in parts of Slovenia I hardly found ANY postcards) – so in Helsinki I started to include art-cards and more. It still had to be finnish, but as they have a very busy group of young photographers working day and night and becoming quite famous, that was not a problem, especially not because I included the historical postcards into the selection too.

    So much for the cards … Until now at least :)

    As for the part of the taking-and-giving I am absolutely of your oppinion and already doing what you proposed: people get their portrait in return. AND – if I have their addresses – they do get a postcard from Frankfurt too.

    Apart from that I do some little favors if I see that it will help: Anu (not in the selection anymore) and Kirsi got a whole set of pictures of them climbing up that crazy wall (I was really full of admiration for them – just got an email today from Anu, who is right now in fact climbing up Mt.Kinablau in Borneo…). And I did a whole set of pictures for the Gypsie people who let me into all of their houses (yes, houses) and offered me the best coffee I have ever had. I did not know they originate from India, did you Joe? So they are really after anything that comes from there … like being homesick for a place you have never been at. So I did a little research here with a friend that runs a bookshop and we found a wonderful & fitting picture book about India, full of color and vibrance, just perfect for my new gypsie acquaintances. They did not expect it, it was a surprise. And as I have been told, it was a good one. :)) And you know, this makes me very happy too, because these people – practically all of the people I have met now on this way – absolutely humbled me with their openness and willingness to collaborate! Sometimes I wonder if I would give so much for … a stranger. Would I?

    So this is very real and not staged empathy. And I am very, very sincerely thankfull for all the help I am getting by all these people I met just moments before asking them to do something for me.

    I try to give back whatever I find possible, so I can walk on without feeling miserable. I try to keep a balance. It is something I personally need to feel ok.

    As to the book with portraits … I actually did a mock up about how things should later look like and had a friend translate my explanation into proper Italian, so I could try to show that I am not (completely) crazy. It worked well. The more portraits I got, the more I added to the demo. So this was actually ok. And they understood why I needed the postcard because I had them included in the layout.

    As to how I go about to find these people … I think it sounds much more difficult if you just think about it than if you actually do it. It is not difficult at all. But I have to have the space to do it my way. Friends tried to sent me to busy market places, but I prefer quiet situations where I can see where I am interrupting and if it is opportun. I am always amazed, when walking home from the supermarket, carrying heavy stuff, just trying to get home and people interrupt me to sell me something… They do not really show a good feeling for a situation. So mainly I need a good feeling about situations, and then it works fine – Unless I get into language troubles. Happened too. Two old men with time and willing to do something, REALLY trying to understand but … I do not know Russian. I could not explain. So we had a coffee with some vodka and laughed a lot and… then I left.

    What I found out that really works is people sending me along to other people. I got into some kind of nice working chain … which was perfect because once a friend sends you over, I did not have to start from scratch. Sometimes they had already called before and explained, so I got a warm reception.

    See … actually it is easy.

    BUT. I do have a problem with the thought of exploiting them with these stories. Sure it would sell better it there were these “forbidden” thoughts … But I do have their names and portrais next to that … And rest assured that people are sometimes unaware of the fact that they are giving too much information. I would not like to do anything they would regret later …

    But I see your point, Joe. And I agree I have to do more with these stories. So this is really something to think about. Thanks so much for pinpointing this out again.

    Also with the gear … I have the worst gear. A point&shoot camera. :)

    In fact I was asking DAH if I should not go MF… I was even thinking of getting Marcin’s camera … But … I would have to find someone who could explain me how to best get the film digitized later because I have a 100% digital workflow. And the digibacks are too expensive for me.

    I absolutely love the idea of shooting with an old Hasselblad :))))

    Did I forget anything?

    Oh yess, the quantity … :))

    Well, I guess I let August Sander influence me here … I did in fact have the documentation aspect on my mind. In fact at the very beginning, during the workshop, I was thinking of getting a whole (!) village. Just one. But all of them. I am very glad I did not tell this crazyness to anybody back then :))

    But it is an open project. If I spent 20 years on this one, then … the numbers would be achievable. But would it be good? I do not know. That is why I put this question up: under which circumstances would this be faisable without being a waste of time? I am not expecting to use all of the images I make. It will obviously be a selection. But even though.

    Thanks again Joe, for your thoughts and for writing them down for me. I wish I could go on exchanging thoughts with you. Maybe not while putting up these killer posts like I am doing now. I would be very gratefull if you would go on sharing your thoughts as the project progresses. It is very important for me to communicate. Sometimes I tend to get lost in a complexity that I build up myself.

    Tell you something: why don’t you write me a postcard and I then make you portrait when we meet in Tuscany :))))))

    One more reason to go there!

    All my best, thanks again and a good night,

    Lassal

  97. JENNY

    I haven’t recieved any emails from you after the 15th of December and the last one wasn’t OTT at all… I have contacted Shinji twice via LS and his email and also have heard nothing further…

  98. PAUL

    After having volunteered for 7 years at a K-5 school, I can REALLY relate to your video:

    It captures the high-speed energy & enthusiasm of youth in an original & authentic way. Keep doin’ it, brother. You’re really onto something!

    I appreciate your response to my post about long-term projects but perhaps I didn’t make myself clear. The point is that I don’t want to finish my project because I’m enjoying it so much. I’m not even interested in taking time out. I was saying that I’m grateful I still have six more months to spend on it. I really love working on long-term projects and was wondering how others feel when their projects come to an end.

    By the way, I don’t see myself continuing working with this subject. To be honest, by the time I’ve given it a year, I think I will have milked it dry. It will be time to go on to something new…

    Patricia

  99. ok, so, like, this is sacriledge, but, gonna give u something from what i’ve been carving on…..

    “The son remembers what the father wishes to forget.”–Yiddish Proverb

    …and so this morning darkness spreads thin the winter light and soon the pliable silence is more limber with memory as it enters.

    And what began as a small ache, a tap of ash and rough bone, soon morphs into a presence that fills the elongated space between the chair and desk at which I sit and the throat of the corridor that scaffolds the space between these words and the commonwealth where my wife and son now sleep. It is because of this tract, this early-morning quiescence, that specific beat between the rum of my ticking head-heart and all that has gathered between the un-counted clicks of thought and waking, that I am at unrest. Now with a receipe of words, as if counting upon alchemy and gestation, I try to make sense of a description, try to make sense of an arrangement of pictures that are born of a remembering, pictures that mean to speak of what is here, now, in this quiet morning when I feel bereft for without the sound of my wife’s hum or my son’s sleeping vigilance, all disappears like vapor. Is it possible to convey that what I am and all that I shall be is ever but a description of that space, of that purloined arrangement beween solitary lull and bound ,,,

  100. Lassal, i hear you, but i still think three things 1.) you’ve got the skills to pay the bills on this daring project, most don’t 2.) people dooooo want to go on the record and say something to get it off their chest, they would see this as a perfect platform to do this (think of Nan Goldin) as for me, Postcard!….. Pffft…. a post card wouldn’t get me past my confessions from the age of four, ….“I’m sorry babysitter X for….., I‘m sorry to babysitter Y for….” basically i’d have load of baggage to dump! and 3.) think hard about the interdependence of the photographer in a project like this, you can only do what you feel ethically legitimate Lassal, but if not this approach, still strive to stretch out of your comfort zone, think about what it must have felt like to be Amy Stein during her ‘Stranded’ project.. when you think about the ethics of that way of working it almost seems sinister, Amy’s of course not (I love her work!), but her portraits came through the demise of her subject, her luck was actually the bad luck of others! Imagine the conversion of the stranded into an actual portrait session? I don’t think without Amy’s ‘way of working’ that the portraits would be so moving.

    So Lassal I hope you can invent some way to introduce this same way-of-working energy to make this portrait project just as revealing about you as a human as it as about your subject as examples of humans. We already know you’re a very social creature, that’s a great platform, but how do you push the envelope? ;-)

  101. david alan harvey

    JOE…

    welcome!! i do look forward to your continued participation here…you will add add add…

    cheers, david

  102. JOE,

    not sure if you are still reading this thread …

    I am really thinking about your input…

    See … It is good you brought Nan Goldin in. Because you will need specific type of people to bring in specific types of input. At the moment I am going “international/general”. If I went to red light districts, I could get a very different coloration :) to all of this. If I went to see only fishermen, or miners, or maids of high society people, or musicians, or… I would be able to set things up differently. So one of the weaknesses right now seems to be the unspecifiedness … I could make people speak about their dreams, about when they found out that there is no Santa Claus, about their first love or if they ever lied for a good cause. I aknowledge that I could and SHOULD do more with the parameter “story” … I will be thinking about it.

    But you see by your own example how easy you can feel trapped by being asked to write such a postcard. And how easy it is to find an excuse. :)

    I was not planning to research for a book… I was planning to do portrait photography embedded into a concept. I have to be careful not to destroy this by adding too much yellow press effects (please, please, please … no offence, but these are the same tools used :)))))

    Thanks again for the imput. I will work on a solution and I would love to get your input as to whatever I come up with…

    Cheers,

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