burn is an online feature for emerging photographers worldwide. burn is curated by magnum photographer david alan harvey.
Where hot bikes and cars are on full display.
It gets better Ross https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk_CyvXeLcs
Panos: charging Paolo with a crime? My comments were related to the World Press winner and were an answer from EPUK to a question on that particular photograph. But if I can understand why Paolo added that picture of the guy x the gun I do indeed feel a bit uncomfortable with it in an otherwise outstandingly well photographed story. In fact I think the ‘Crescent’ story didn’t even need that particular photograph. It doesn’t add that much, could have been left out and spare Paolo quite some flak.
John Vink: That was an excellent article that I think lays out the controversies quite well. I thought Jarecke’s point that it was up to the powerful editors and respected elder statesmen of photography to fix the problem, but that they are for the most part turning a blind eye or profiting from it to be most apt.
Of course many question whether or not there actually is a problem. I think so and I think it’s grave. What we’re seeing in these POYI controversies is the Fox Newsification of journalism. The idea that it’s more important to tell the Truth with a capital T, as one believes it, than to be factual. Most of us would easily recognize how wrong that is were a neo-Nazi sypmatizing photographer to pose an Orthodox Jew sucking the blood of a Christian baby, but too many of us are blind to the practice when a picture is faked to illustrate the higher truths of a cause we believe in. That’s why journalism, photo and otherwise, needs standards for factual reporting. If it’s okay to fake it in service of your Truth, then it’s okay to fake it in service of someone else’s.
And on the topic of gathering facts versus inventing them, I can’t help but note how much easier it is to invent a source that says what you know to be True in a dramatic fashion than to actually go out and find relevant and knowledgeable sources, who are then unlikely to parrot your prejudices. On the editorial side, there have been several infamous examples of reporters caught creating “composite” characters over the years, most famously Janet Cook’s young heroin addict. I’m having great difficulty seeing how what Pellegrin did with Breet and his gun, and to a lesser extent the award winning photo, was any different.
But I hate to personalize it, and that’s maybe an even bigger part of the problem with a lack of standards. As John Vink’s linked article documents, different standards are too often applied to the powerful and the popular. Too often the controversy is about X the person not whatever X did. Thus if X is a great guy with the powers that be on his side, any misstep is likely to be swept under the rug. Whereas poor freelancer Y with a nasty disposition better cross all his t’s or he will be hung out to dry. And to be fair, you can’t expect X’s friends to try, convict and sentence him for violating professional standards. That’s what the powers that be are paid to do. To make it about the act, not the individual. When that mechanism fails, the entire system is corrupted. That’s what I find so disturbing in all this. The powers that be, in this case, the POYI people in both cases and Magnum in the one, pretty much announced that there are no consistent standards. That it’s all up to whatever the individual, or the individual judges, consider acceptable at any given time.
Not that I don’t think there’s any place for photo illustrations of the sort we’re discussing. As most of you know, I like that sort of thing and appreciate the deeper truths that well-done fiction can communicate. But I was raised in traditional journalism and continue to believe, with plenty of supporting evidence, that that old-fashioned getting the facts correct above all else standard for reporting is the right one for news. I don’t know what they’re doing in J-schools these days, but when I studied at Indiana, and I’ll bet anything that when David studied at Missouri, if, for a news story, a photojournalism student were to employ a model with a prop or in a fake location, use a misleading caption, and misspell the subjects name, he or she would flunk the class and quite possibly be expelled from school. Now we’re in an age when that kind of behavior is blessed by the titans of the industry. I just don’t see how that can be a good thing. Or to put it a different way, we’re pretty much all Fox News now — Fuck yea!!!
Thanks John , gotcha..cool
In fact I think the ‘Crescent’ story didn’t even need that particular photograph.
hmm agree..yeah true too much fuss though over a “filler”…but also a bit “extra” sensitivity” over the captions, not?
Another cool video with Daido Moriyama.
Mike…smiling…no no, nobody assigned me , not even self assigned…was actually intrigued by Bill and i felt a little nostalgia too , good ol’fisty days…damn i think i “grew” up softer…;)
I keep pinching myself and reminding myself the good image should somehow work just as we’ll without the app filter in Instagram. It’s so easy to fall in the trap of attempting to make a boring image shine with some highly saturated filter…
Imants; that link is brilliant!!!!! :-)
Paul I am not there to churn out photographers I present visual communication …….. photography is just one on the tools used. Sometimes an app takes the dominate role , sometimes it is text, an object’s structural or subjective role, the tactile textural qualities of paint, the crude video juxtaposed with the slickness of a lipstick advertisement, a gesture
It is an interesting world out there and these kids are setting new agendas it is a privilege to get a glimpse at what they are on about
Me I make books none of my students create books and very few take up any photographic mantle and that is all fine by me.
Yea Ross it is nice to see Daido return to what he created in “74 I remember reading about it as a sculpture student who was not creating anything 3D but placing photos in plastic bags and and hanging them on door knobs in business districts of Sydney. It’s probably why I became a landscaper/stonemason
mw for a guy with a somewhat “seen that that’s been done how about something new” mentality about photography there sure is that bring back the good old days mentality in your comment.
Most of us would easily recognize how wrong that is were a neo-Nazi sypmatizing photographer to pose an Orthodox Jew sucking the blood of a Christian baby, but too many of us are blind to the practice when a picture is faked
Geezus mw …..!!!!!!!
You sound / write like you just got hired by the “Spanish Inquisition L.t.d” corporation
Imants, I distinguish between journalism and other types of photography. Truth in labeling, basically. And I don’t know if there’s an Australian equivalent to Fox News here in the U.S., but it’s that kind of fact-challenged journalism to bolster a political agenda that’s seriously fucking up this country.
Panos, forgive me if I’m wrong, but I’ve never gotten the impression that you have much of an education in the history and ethics of journalism. From that history, one can make a very good argument that strict ethical standards regarding facts and how they are presented is society’s best protection against Spanish Inquisitions, Beer Hall Putsches, Richard Nixon, and the like. Without that kind of grounding, it’s all too easy to look the other way when our side, or our friend, does it. But on the institutional level, that adherence to a rule of law, so to speak, is what separates the healthy from the corrupt. Those who go out and work as journalists don’t need the polls to tell them that the profession is held in some combination of distrust and contempt by a helluva lot of people out there. Sacrificing facts to an agenda is a big part of the reason why.
About the caption thing, I didn’t make a big deal out of that, it’s hardly on the level of a threat to western civilization. But I suspect that just about everyone who’s been chewed out by an editor or had a reader call in to complain about a fucked up caption is a little sympathetic but not particularly amused. Top professionals and organizations should represent, not be like everyone else.
You confuse education with “pet training”…no i never been “trained” but look video above to see how i train…with love ;)
still shivering ;)
“But on the institutional level, that adherence to a rule of law, so to speak, is what separates the healthy from the corrupt.” jeez the guy is a loony, now he is in the game of upholding a law then again no healthy mind ever understands word healthily.
Journalism education is studying the history of the craft and how ethics have developed over time. Hearst, Pulitzer, Murrow, Lippman, Severeid, Time, Life, I.F. Stone, as well as the philosophies that support or mitigate free press.
Rule of law and ethic #1 in journalism is that you don’t just make shit up. Not that some people can make shit up and others can’t, depending on one’s political leanings. One should shiver when journalists just make shit up and get away with it.
mw no doubt about you first you accuse some here of racism now you are our adviser of all things moral and good
None of the mentioned are squeekie clean they are sll bias one way or another especially forgetting the other side
No, just talking about journalism. Journalism, not art photography or creative storytelling or other types of photography.
When one studies journalism, which includes photojournalism, one not only learns about the history of the craft and the thoughts and actions of its leading practitioners; one also studies philosophers such as Aristotle and Kant and how their thoughts were important in the development of a free press, and also the history of political freedom itself, in which journalism has played an important role.
Of course these are subjects about which reasonable people can hold different opinions and can certainly disagree on the particulars of any one incident, but it’s because of that kind of common educational background that so many journalists take these things so seriously. I understand why the non-journalists among us so often take what may seem to be minor breeches of journalistic ethics so lightly, but it’s unfortunate. That kind of thing played large and wide really is a threat to political and intellectual freedom.
That’s what I was writing about in response to you journalism not what you are doing here manipulation, by introducing your last comment with “No, just talking about journalism. Journalism, not art photography or creative storytelling or other types of photography.”
Seems like most of the world is in breech of your standards that non-journalist comment is particular distasteful and a fabricated lie
Ahh ha you have swept your accusations of racism under the carpet just as a good ………..
Ah Imants, always with the personal attacks. Sad. And ugly.
But if you want to man up — in this conversation at it’s most basic, I’m saying that it’s unethical and counterproductive for journalists to just make shit up. Are you saying you think it’s right and proper for journalists to just make shit up? All of the time? Some of the time? In very special circumstances? In order to get a paycheck or win a prize?
(of course it’s very unlikely you will be able to produce any example of me calling anyone here a racist. I’m usually very careful to condemn the words or the act rather than the person (a practice you would do well to emulate). Just because someone says something that could be interpreted as racist doesn’t mean that person is racist and here on burn I have always assumed that no one who comments regularly is racist)
Mike, you’re sounding suspiciously Republican here. ;-)
MUSIC by “Bnksnm” (by Alternahunk)
Don’t miss the “training video below”
Watch carefully …see how the “new” learning from the established Truth Holders..
Serving the absolute truth ain’t no easy task
Watch masterpiece below..
Ladies and gents, I have the pleasure to
Introduce one of the Masters of Truth and knowledge
ROY&SIGFRIED productions present the epic blockbuster:
(From the producers of 10 commandos;$)
NOW AVAIL ON VIMEO:
Also available on Vimeo, a valuable examination of one of the burning issues of our times:
For anyone following what’s going on right now in Cyprus (and by implication in the EU)…
Here is a video I shot about an hour ago outside the Cypriot Parliament…
mw March 9, 2013
You all would be better off personally and the world would be a better place if you’d learn to get past racist type bullshit and judge people primarily by the content of their character. Sydney may have made brazil and Roberta feel good but it comes at the cost of insulting other people, Kerry, for example
the answer was NO,NO,NO…Greece is F%$##&…
we forgot to “read” History…oime…
THODORIS thank you for the report!
MY BURNIANS be united…together we can do miracles…
civi ,the Fighter
Imants, you seem to have a serious problem with reading comprehension. More sophisticated readers can plainly see that nowhere in the passage you quoted did I call Sydney a racist. I said that what he wrote was “racist type bullshit,” which it was. The kind of sentence construction he used has done incalculable harm to innumerable young women and that kind of depicting particular ethnic traits as ugly has often been an excuse for oppression throughout history. As for Sydney, I didn’t think he was a racist, I just figured he meant well but was being thoughtless. I know we all have our little private preferences, but publicly — and in reality — all women are beautiful.
Panos, you seem to have the impression that the teaching of ethics at J-school consists of writing down and memorizing Truths with a capital T. That’s not at all the case. We study history and philosophy and then bring that to bear on current issues in journalism. For example, we read Kant and discussed his argument that in order to be ethical it was necessary to always tell the truth. In this discussion, we can apply that to the idea that a journalist should never just make shit up. Well, what if Kant’s walking down the street and a bloodied young woman runs by and darts down an alley? Then a few seconds later a crazy guy with a bloody knife runs up and asks him which way did she go? Kant would have to tell the truth whereas any normal person would feel it’s more ethical to lie in that situation. Then you can start applying those kinds of mind experiments to journalism. Should a reporter make shit up to avoid nuclear annihilation of the human species? Yea, duh. But what about making shit up to save lives immediately that may cost many more lives down the road? Or to make shit up to help a cause the reporter feels is right? Where does one draw the line? How can institutions deal with those questions. That’s the manner in which serious journalists discuss ethics. The easy answers are on the extremes. In the day to day real world all too often there are no easy answers. But it’s important to have the discussion and some kind of institutional consistency. Cause seriously, history shows that when the institutions become corrupt, freedom of the press is threatened. And when freedom of the press is threatened, so is freedom.
anybody for a cup of coffee to chillax a little?
And here is a link to some pictures as well…
Cyprus Says NO to Bailout…
Stay strong Thodoris !!!
Good job , keep it up!
Sorry no can accept your squirming and twisting after the event as you usually do, mind you this time you didn’t state that it was meant as a joke I guess that excuse got a bit thin. It seems that you are doing precisely what you are complaining about here on journalists of today………. stretch and reorganize comments …. then sort of but not really apologise later or ignore at your convenience .
You lecturing us on ethics is nothing short of laughable
No squirming and twisting. I use precise language and the quote you provided is an excellent example. Using language precisely — yet another thing you would do well to emulate.
What’s your problemo, anyway? It seems you’ve got an unhealthy obsession with me. It’s verging on sick, imo. But if you really care about my views on ethics, why don’t you attack my views instead of just calling me names? That’s how normal people interact. Go ahead, give it a try. I dare’s ya.
No problem just a bit miffed with your preaching and doing quite the opposite yourself, calling people racists, stating that non journalist photographers are slack in their attitude and someone like you is better.
Mind you I see a liberal use of stretching what is there in your images must be the art part of your “factual” outlook.
I will leave you to your soap box and preachers mindset enjoy, I’m off to catch some real fish there is a nice hatch of mudeyes in Fish river
You lecturing us on ethics is nothing short of ….
Ok , I mean, really , mw… stop it… Smiling.. It really gets “painful” after a while… Lets move on, plz..pretty plz… Enough with judgements
Imants, yes, I’m a liar, a preacher, think I’m better than everyone else, certainly a hypocrite. Of course it’s obvious that what I really am in our little abusive relationship — as are all the other people you attack — is rubber and you are glue. All that shit you say about us just comes back and sticks to you. That’s what it’s really about, eh.
Panos, you’re probably the most judgemental person I know, which is what I like about you. Of course I find a lot of your judgements ridiculous, but that’s okay. So please, go ahead and keep judging all the things you like to judge. And I’ll judge mine. If you don’t like it, well, nobody’s forcing you to look. I don’t look at your dog pictures. Nor Imants’ little productions. Seen one, seen way too many. But again, that’s fine. Do your thing. I’ll do mine. It’s a big ole world.
Ok. That’s it… I’m leaving this schoolyard. Might come back once you have calmed down Imants.
John; Just wondering how you are finding your new Sony? Is it suiting your style? Cheers :-)
Re John Vink: yea, I’m sorry for my part in it. You try to have an adult conversation about contemporary issues, a troll comes out from under the bridge, and it’s hard not to respond to insults and accusations of dishonesty and hypocrisy. Guess that’s one reason that a lot of people have left the schoolyard and probably a big part of why the teacher no longer gives much of a shit about keeping the schoolyard going. Oh well, back to class for me.
Fight stopped… Canons silenced..u can still smell gunpowder on the air..
(And the world became a better place suddenly )
Hey wherever there’s beer ….there’s love
On a serious note , the kid in this photo below looks very judgmental …
good morning y’all , lighten up, it’s all easy..
Wherever there’s human, there’s an opinion and a judgement..
They are like assholes.. We all have one and we all are ONE..
Lift up your hand if your excrements don’t stink:)
Hmm see? I knew it.. Just go closer and you’ll “hear” the smell..
Nobody’s that special.. Not yet
Not EVEN me:(
Anyway lets keep a straight face while we judge with love , class and finesse
Lets let love sweep us of out feet and white delicate pigeons of knowledge to
deepen our intellect …
Love love love and peace is all I’m bringing
See reunion photo below:
And yes since it’s an official request, done with dogs
Quoth the Raven NEVERMORE
But but but , I can’t promise the same for BATS
No more arguing , no more opinion, no more dawgs,
But YES to cats , yes to tats, yes to cats with tats
Time to pick up THE guitar again…
It’s less judgmental but way more intelectual way to live !!!
I think… Not? ( Borat accent )
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