Walmart by Martin Parr
Walmart is the biggest retailer in the world and as such should be documented seriously.
We would like to find out more about this large and impressive retailer. What sort of customer do they have, which is the biggest Walmart in the USA, what community initiatives do they undertake?
All these questions and more I intend to explore.
If we think about recent documentation of American society , you rarely see images from Walmart, yet they are a recent American success story and are now an integral part of American life. It is impossible now to think about contemporary America without considering this company. This should be celebrated and documented.
EDITORS NOTE:
i think Martin Parr needs no introduction….he is undoubtedly one of the most respected and popular (and imitated) photographers of our time….and a true renaissance man excelling in making a mark in the publishing world, the commercial world, the art world, and the curatorial world….
my invitation to you now is to ask Martin Parr some well thought out questions…..he will join us “live” in the next few hours, most likely 6pm GMT…..he will spend two hours answering the most thought provoking questions…..
…COMMENTING MAY BE CONTINUED….MARTIN PARR WILL JUMP IN ON THE DISCUSSION FROM TIME TO TIME
oh yes, by the way, Martin plans on shooting an extended version of his Walmart work exclusively for BURN….
-david alan harvey
Website: www.martinparr.com
@ andreac… u r absolutly rite – wanted say “ingredient”
@ herve (and rafal) – about plato relevance…
yes, it got a bit off topic, but not by much. and i agree with u, relatively new here but i saw far more off-topic talks on burn. poor plato for being found to be irrelevant so early, but rafal has special interest talking with me, which is cool. actually, the humanity (socially and psychologically) must go a dramatic un-imaginable change to make plato only of historic relevance.
so, as kristoff already explained, this old guy (plato) is so influential, and philosophy is not an innocent game.
let me add here, thinking that philosophy is innocent and “transcendent” to real-daily life is narrow understanding of general social affairs, + it is about the same as saying mantras such as “money is not important in life” or “politics is shit”… the only thing those mantras really do is put people far away from the sight of things like money, politics, ideas so that there will be little mess and more space for the stronger to manipulate the masses. thinking this is innocent, that is shit, thats is stinky is a good recipe to make people numb….
@ kristoff… now we are a bit off topic, but it is so cool to talk with u, and especially so in this opportunity and context…
1. u said: “terrific, we are talking aboy ancient greece on walmart photo”… yes it is, but i really think that any dialogue about culture can easily bring greece and bible. they are fundaments of our culture. of course there were lots of great thoughts since then, from augustin to wittgenstein, but somehow, even without too much imagination it feels like ancient greeks and jews (include early christs) are always in the air somehow in later thoughts too…
2. idealism and “ingredients” … again, u r rite, so it happens many times (or at least it is dramatic and we remember it).
but, even if we look in platos work, there are many ways in which we can see “ideal / idealization”… what is a “triangle”? there is no such thing as perfect/representative “triangle” but we have the “idea” of it. there is no such thing as “dot” but we have an “idea” of it. there are “universals” – a kind of particular characteristic that relevant to many items (or people), but this is “idea”, those characteristics are not tangibles… etc etc… this is the Genius of plato… he alwasy had a trouble of explaining how those intangible “ideas” are related in real-world – he has several suggestions changing in dialogues, like “ideas are mirrored in physical world”, or “ideas are resembled” etc, and then comes aristotles within this headache… this is the modest and intellectual issue of “idea/idealization”, metaphysic episteme-ontological etc…
and when i talk about “idea” “idealizm” is more on this side first of all…
now from here we get to that “idealization” that has the “intolerable nature”. this is the next step that plato makes – articulates metaphysics to ethics but most importantly to practical politics issues. from here, “ideas” is not just intellectual issue or aspiration and understanding of good virtues etc (like socrates suggested most likely). but instead, “idealizm” (and suggested political contents) becomes a “sacred” Doctrine to follow … and i agree with u here, this is the Tyranny that plato brought… or i should say: this is the Plot for Tyrant – to rationalize their instinctive ambitions (with distorted honestly, or just cynicism). i think this is the dramatic side of plato and “idea” that comes to association, but this is not the only side of plato and his philosophy, in fact, the Genius in his philosophy is in the first part, and the dark side in the second.
and i dont think plato invented the first part in service of the second. but who knows?! thoughts about “universals”, “ideas” “numbers” were there before, those of socrates probably similar to plato himself, and surely pre-socratics… yet, i think from aristotles, we can “trust” that plato was genius of metaphysics, ethics, epistemology and onthology too, before he become a preach of “utopia” and “sparta”.
@ rafal…. i will answer u later…
by the way… does this Tyranny issue sounds as something that is repeated in some parts of daily-real capitalism-consumerism ? …
Victor,
actually my special interest isn’t with you but with the issue. But you are the one who touched upon the issue so I replied to you. Plato isn’t irrelevant, but I didn’t like your dismissive attitude towards a serious issue.
@ rafal…
a side note: so now Plato IS relevant ?!
and where exactly did u see that my attitude is dismissive ?
but, u routinly manipulate the words to draw immediate conclusions, in order to play the trumpets of the artificial battle… so here are my marching drums :-)
u play on the ground of walmart… u play the same hypocrisy of the consumerism and unrestrained capitalism… worst is that i think u dont really want to play all this….
1. what exactly do u want from the family? from any “oligarch” actually… Walmart does businesses, and does it good.
let me ask u – do u think u have to look for “social responsibility” in walmart busnes, instead of opening your eyes and seeing that our culture is in moral and ethic bankruptcy ? walmart is the child of consumerism (and other processes led to it)… it is not the mother and father of our cultural problems. yes, walmart and marketing techniques etc are fuel that intensifies the issues, but i do not think they should be the First Adress for “social/ethic responsibility”. if u think they are, then it means that “they already Won” cause u just gave away the keys.
2. why dont blame our own faked-individualism that can be so easily manipulated by “commercial propaganda”, government that does not take responsibility in regulations, why dont blame the Culture Agents that should carry the Interest of culture wealth as their “first page”? … those two should “give/shape” evolving legislation and norms in which “walmart” will be bounded to respect the “social responsibility”…
3. why dont blame governments of those countries where people have no rights and are exploited ? blame those people that mostly are not really ambitious to be a better place, or lets say, better place is not liberal rights for them but just a bit more of wealth to survive… they have no responsibility for their destiny ? Walmart is their cancer ?!? otherwise, without walmart, those countries are exemplary wealthy and liberal paradises ???
4. again, western hypocrisy of cheap compassion… underneath there are premises of western superiority preaching everybody what is right and wrong, and from here, it is a short distance to a typical old style paternalism of colonial ages but this time in fancy business suites softened with “new-age-mantras”. instead of imperial uniforms of the past.
5. lets say u make a bit of noise talking how bad is walmart (or the classic case like “nike” exploiting kids in asia/africa)… u need great resources to start scratching walmart.. a massive media agenda, politicians on your side, infuencial people etc etc… and then what, u dont even make them shake a bit – cause they give people what people want – consume more for lessssss, which is not all that bad if u r honest with yourself and your daily needs… so, if and when “walmarts” are a bit scratched, they will come with contra campaign, maybe a bit of real improvements etc… BUT – does it solve the problems of our culture ??!! all u will do here is keep on playing on the same ground.
dont get me wrong, i do not protect “walmart” here, in fact i have no sympathy to unrestrained consumerism, but Blaming “walmarts” and even more so, expecting that they should carry “social/ethic responsibility” MISSES the real problems of our culture. but well, it is so sexy to blame successful business, sounds so sexy to play tyrants and victims game etc… we have a clear address – the thing we can easily Demonize.
ok this is about hypocrisy…
now about strategy, photo-docu-art stuff, social responsibility…
no recipes here, it is a huge theme, and more people will have more perspectives of study and various photographic atitudes, all great…
yet, i think we can slap our conusmeristic cheecks, very important to provoke, especially on mass level, where are has minor voice, at from “art” “magazines” a tendency can start if we are very optimistic.
but personally, i am more interested in alternative Visions,
and i think for Cultural themes (not just walmart) it is equally important that artists (and other creative or influential peopple) will suggest alternative views as is important to provoke the numb situations. alternative visions needs huge doses of optimism too of course, but at least it does not spins around itself…
Victor,
I never said Plato was not relevant, what I took issue with was the abstraction of a real problem into a philosophical game.
Do you dismiss the idea of corporate social responsibility? Yes, the governments of a country are to blame but so are the businesses that take advantage of those laws, or lack of them. Unlike you I don’t see this is a blame shifting game. Walmart is more responsible than the governments of third world nations it makes its cheap stuff in because Walmart should know better. I don’t really expect some official in Bangladesh who never grew up with any of the concepts we find important to enforce them. However Walmart comes from Western culture, where we atleast acknowledge certain rights. To abuse those rights simply because it can is worse.
@ rafal …
first let me rewrite second sentense of the last passege of my previous comment:
i was saying: “we can slap your cheeks, and indeed it is important to provoke, especially on mass level. on mass level, such provokation that comes from “art” and “magazines” are minor voice, but they can start tendencies if we are optimistic” … it cought my eye suddenly and i couldnot understand the mess i wrote, probably was doing here a few things simultaniously.
back to your question… no dismiss at all… actually, i think there Should be corporate social responsibility… but u r not supposed to ask walmart doing it… we are in ethic troubles so to speak… u want corporations dictating ethic codes ??? for themesleves or for society ???
we can hope that people in charge or in powerful positions (academic, financial, political and social serv etc etc) do have an intuitive social and ethic responsibility.. a natural one, inherent in them… but no garuanti that all (or even most) are like this. and no guaranti how they gonna behave in dicision making situations, which are more problematic than ruitine flow … this is why i think that looking at those phenomenas from a “vantage” broad cultural issue is important.
and besides, again… issues we are talking about should be “first page” for somebody – government, various “shapers” of the culture etc… i dont think it is the first page of walmart, it should not be the first page of walmart, and even if walmart “honestly and deliberetly” wants to make it its first page instead of business wealth, still it must not be their responibility to shape our “ethic codes”.
But who is talking about shaping ethical values? Simply following certain ethical values would be a big change for Walmart. Talking about 3rd world workers being paid almost nothing and working in squalor, or child labor, we know what the proper ethical choices should be, and Walmart hasn’t followed them. But you know, that ofcourse is probably abstract thinking for the regular consumer who rarely thinks of issues in far away lands. There are issues at home too, and to say corporate social responsibility is somethijng from the abstract ethical realm is a mistake. CSR involves not only ethical issues but legal ones as well, and here too, Walmart has failed. Issues of unlawfully changing hourly logs so employees get cheated out of overtime, forcing people to work overtime for nothing by manipulating their work hours, providing health insurance in such a way that eployees cannot afford it and are infact encouraged by Walmart to go onto state funded healthcare. This strategy allows Walmart to shit its legal responsibility onto the state. This is all easily found information. As is Walmart’s disregard for the environment for example.
God forbid Walmart have any part in shaping ethics in any way, shape or form. Its a corporation that breaks ethical norms with delight, be that at home or abroad.
I’m following this discussion on Wal-Mart with interest. I’ve done my share of protest demonstrations outside of Wal-Mart stores over the years. And yes, Rafal, you are right about Wal-Mart’s horrible record of workers’ rights abuses. There are countless websites that detail these abuses, but one that tells it from the workers’ point of view is called “Wal-Mart Workers Speak Out.” The URL is
http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/walmart/walmart_2_profiles.cfm
Patricia
Interesting discussion, but lets not lead burn into libel territory.
Gosh, John, maybe things are different in the UK, but here in the United States it is not considered libelous to be a voice of dissent whether about corporate or governmental abuses. If it were, we’d be living in a police state.
Patricia
@ Rafael, Victor…
in many cases the wish that companies take their social and ecological responsibilities by themselves, dismisses a real moral way of doing business. Why? First point, the goal of companies is to earn money. As much as possible. It is the reason of their existence. Second point, man is not naturally ethic. it is culture which makes man to behave ethic. Our culture doesn’t provide the certainty that man will behave ethically (not any culture does, but there are degrees…).
So, asking firms to behave socially responsible, it is cute and nice, but the reality tells us that some do, but many don’t. Many pay huge bills to publicity campaigns in order to show a nice “socially responsible” image of themselves. Lately many multinationals seem to behave like ethical champions, if we have to believe their communication. With them, we will save our planet… Why do the do this? Well, just because attention is going so much to social responsibility! And they know. So it is much more important for them that they are giving the most freedom they want to do whatever they want to take in the biggest benefits, instead of having to subdue to regulations! This social responsibility talk shifts away the attention of the real issue.
And this is the gap between the poitical powers and the companies powers. For multinationals can shift their productions very easily to the countries which give them the best options (low salary, less unions,..). The only way by which to alter this process, is not to ask them the ethical obligation of taking their social responsibility, but to impose rules and to sanction if they overrule them.
We need to strive for more democracy, so people have more power to decide what they want as a society. We need public discussions about it.
So, yes, maybe it is good to show Wallmart as an example of an overall plot in our society. But if we only attack Wallmart , without talking about the broader context, then I am afraid it will be just nice for our own nice and cute moral consciousness, so we can believe we are the good ones…
For the people who think this discussion is theoretical and irrelevant, as begun from a Wallmart picture, in our current society, everything is related. hat is needed is to think and discuss how things are related. A certain way of portraying Wallmart is related to liberal-capitalism, consumerism, democracy, oligarchy, Plato… To relate things gives perspective, not?
THe picture of Martin Parr is well composed. But the meaning is so blunt. “Satisfaction guaranteed” and under it two workers of Wallmart. If it doesn’t come together with other images which bring a complexity of meaning (what are the conditions of those workers f.ex., which would surpsise me Martin Parr would do, knowing his work), this picture is only a confirmation of the so-called cleverness of the photographer to have seen this moment and its irony. Except for his first work, Martin Parr’s images show narcissism, sign of our times. They bear not one single profound critic of our culture. Only superficial critic. And certainly not an alternative vision.
@Victor,
thank you for the specification of Plato’s influence on our culture!
Provocative! Clever! Witty! Calculating! Ironic! And what a great choice of subject matter!
But, I suspect that Kristov Vadino may be on the mark with his comment about narcissism or perhaps: vanity, conceit and egotism??? I have long wondered whether the author, and all his followers, actually care about anything or simply pat themselves on the back because they see themselves as smarter? I do not know the answer but AM interested since I have never understood this photographer or his work. To me it appears to lack any compassion for humanity.
Love to all,
Jenny
oops… sorry Kristof Vadino for mis-spelling your first name
jenny
And apologies to Martin Parr if I have misunderstood him and his work. I simply cannot ‘connect’ with it as to my way of seeing things, it lacks magic, feeling and warmth.
Just for the information of flickr haters, Martin Parr has a flickr profile. He’s also announced that his next book (a collaboration with Joachim Schmid) will be a compilation of images posted in a flickr group. http://www.flickr.com/groups/martinparr/
He’s probably also a fan of http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/