working….

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it is getting cold here in Rio…fall has arrived…everyone complaining of the rain…temperature has dropped to a chilling 68F….i am wearing a long sleeved shirt, pants and shoes…beach days are over (pictured above from non-NG shooting)..New Yorkers may scoff, but i am freezing….besides,  my time is up on this National Geographic shoot…..i am coming home next week…

i have written before that i do  some of my best work in the first few days of an assignment and some of the best in the last few days…the first ones from raw energy and beginners luck and the last ones from “damn, i had better get something”…i have pretty much been on the case here in Rio since New Year’s Eve, with a short but busy one week break in january…mentally on it the whole time…and, of course, i shall return…perhaps on assignment , perhaps not…for i am not finished..

i was actually secretly hoping i would not fall in love with Rio….i assumed a romantic relationship, but figured it would be over when it was over….i have several other projects to complete and have no time to get involved with any long term body of work, but alas she has me…real love is of course often painful…despite the beach scenes you may imagine as pictured, there is another whole world here…full of intrigue, passion, hate, sex, death, light, darkness, despair, cruelty and kindness…the gamut of human nature all played out on a stage like no other …

i have been sick , scared, injured, and upset…long days turned into long nights often with no result…many moving parts and often with the gears grinding….it is very hard for me to look at the work…but, i must soon….i am not one of those photographers who come home at night and rush to the computer  to see what i have done…quite the contrary…i hate to look….deep deep down inside i am assuming some good work….but any long term results seem now far far away….on top of it all, i must justify all of this to the editors who commissioned me to be here….i need an Advil…

yet now my home front porch beckons….but, will my cat remember me?  has my electricity been shut off ?  battery run down on my truck?  yes, my “real life” has been on hold…even patient family and friends are fed up with me…no responses to emails….missed events…forgotten birthdays…major responsibilities undone…of course no woman can put up with me…i will spend the next week apologizing to everyone about everything…and so it goes…

is this any way to live? or, is this the only way to live? i know my answer…what is yours?

863 Responses to “working….”


  • David:

    NO TIME to write now…will write something, long (?) about this this weekend (deadline like a goblin over my shoulder), but for now, will answer you with this poem….for you and your beating heart….

    and by the way, pics above are gorgeous….balerina could be a book cover!

    for you, tired young man:

    A Blessing

    Just off the highway to Rochester, Minnesota,
    Twilight bounds softly forth on the grass.
    And the eyes of those two Indian ponies
    Darken with kindness.
    They have come gladly out of the willows
    To welcome my friend and me.
    We step over the barbed wire into the pasture
    Where they have been grazing all day, alone.
    They ripple tensely, they can hardly contain their happiness
    That we have come.
    They bow shyly as wet swans. They love each other.
    There is no loneliness like theirs.
    At home once more,
    They begin munching the young tufts of spring in the darkness.
    I would like to hold the slenderer one in my arms,
    For she has walked over to me
    And nuzzled my left hand.
    She is black and white,
    Her mane falls wild on her forehead,
    And the light breeze moves me to caress her long ear
    That is delicate as the skin over a girl’s wrist.
    Suddenly I realize
    That if I stepped out of my body I would break
    Into blossom.

    -James WRight

  • David A H:

    It is the only way to live, if you really want to live it!

    I’m hard at work on two new projects – landscape! – and all I want to do right now is photograph. Other things are being neglected in the process, but that’s just as it is, as you rightly point out.

    That experience when the work consumes you is very special both in the positive and negative. But I think when you get into that – the zone I guess – it’s when the good work comes. And as you sense yourself, deep down as photographers we know when we hit that moment.

    So shouldn’t we just work until we cannot work anymore? Has any “known” photographer actually dropped dead from old age while photographing? That must be the way to go.

    I’m pleased to hear you are in love with Rio – that can only be a good thing.

    Have a good journey home.

    Cheers,

    Justin

  • Hey Uncle –
    Cable’s Off,
    Electricity’s Off and your cats had kitten in your bed.
    It’s finding your own way to live and that’s all that matters, plus trying to be someone whose easy to forgive.

  • if you like the buzz it is the only way… like an electric shock.. either hold on or repel from it..

    ¨i have been sick , scared, injured, and upset¨ – DAH

    hmm.. sounds like a time i flew with ryanair
    .

  • “is this any way to live? or, is this the only way to live? ”

    The only way? Of course not, but does it matter, as long as it is YOUR way? I don’t know you, but you don’t strike me as one just sitting home and being happy with it.. one can bend onself only so much, then one must do what one IS. Simple :)

  • Freezing? In 68 degree weather? The mind boggles at the concept.

  • Finish up this leg of the journey, come home and snuggle with the furball, get some hugs and some sleep, because you’ll be back there before long if it’s love. From the shots above, looks like the editors will be very pleased – I so feel the 2nd and the last image…be safe

  • This year I’m trying to see what I can get in push bike range of my house, partly cause I want to see more of my kids, partly as a challenge to find the exotic locally, partly for environmental reasons and partly cause I’m broke. It’s all good but nothing beets that away somewhere new feeling. Not the only but defiantly the most fun.

  • DAH, thanks for the sneak preview.

    Any way to live?, you live the dream of many. Personally, I’m too much of a home-body to live that way. Love being home, love my life.

    What is important, while you may be in love with Rio, or a woman there, you are clearly in love with your life.

  • Very beautiful photos, I like very much it…

    For cat, don’t worry, hugs + milk + fish and all are forgotten :)))

  • Its just a balancing act…..
    the
    yin
    and
    the
    yang…..
    is that really a question?
    I think we all know the answer…..
    VIVA!!!
    great images….
    playful
    and
    romantic…
    ***

  • hmmm some of you seem to have missed that DAH said “…pictured above from previous shoots 8 yrs ago”

    so those pictures, I believe, are not from this trip to Rio. They’re great nonetheless :)

    can’t wait to see some shots from the current Rio shoot

  • (When it turns 60 degrees Fahrenheit- let alone 68!- in Bellingham or Vancouver is when people start ripping their clothes off and heading to the beach. 68F is summer weather here! Just have to get that said).

    David, you have summed up the dilemma succinctly and eloquently as usual. I’m sure many of the photographers who hang out here can relate completely. You have described pretty much the way I lived from 1977 until 2000, even while I was ‘holding down’ a teaching job, my REAL life was spent on the road hungrily devouring the world’s places, falling helplessly in love with new countries and cities and languages, and then having to tear myself away physically and go ‘back to work’ but my mind and heart stayed behind in other places that had become emotionally, spiritually, intellectually important to me. I was a traveler before I was much of a photographer, and the photographs (and maps, in my case) became a way to try to hold onto the places after I had gone, and to plan for the next trip there…

    Maybe I have too much imagination, maybe I’m too much of a romantic and a dilettante, maybe there’s a lacuna in my soul that is never satisfied, but I found myself longing to create a life of whole fabric in each place, to really learn the language fluently, to really come to know intimately the back alleys, to understand the layers of meaning and symbolism in each society… to find a woman who would welcome the caresses of someone who had miraculously acquired an insider’s sensitive knowledge.

    And in each new place, this constellation of probably unattainable desires would recreate itself.

    Maybe not totally unattainable… in several regions of North America (New York, Oregon, Idaho, British Columbia), and in Japan and South Korea, I actually did discover and create these kinds of alternate lives for myself to some extent…but I was frustrated by the lives I never had enough time on the ground to really explore or create wholly in Thailand, Malaysia, Australia, France, Mexico, and many other places. Each trip, while it made me long to be ’embedded’, as it ended would remind me of the impossibility of being anything more than an outsider and a tourist…maybe a well-informed and sensitive tourist, but not really an inhabitant, not really an ensconced member of a community.

    As someone who had taught environmental studies, I was acutely aware of carbon footprints as well, and felt like I of all people had to set an example. So around the year 2000 I resolved to settle in one place for better or worse, not to jump on airplanes and fly off to other places even for visits, but to dig as deep as I could into one place and one community. Since then my radius of travel has been roughly 100 miles from a center in Bellingham…just far enough to take in Vancouver and lower mainland BC to the North, Seattle to the south, the North Cascades to the east, and the San Juan Islands and Victoria to the west. My resolution has been aided enormously by poverty… I can’t afford to travel, even if I wanted to!

    That doesn’t mean I have abandoned the romance of other places in my mind and heart. The world is so interconnected now, populations are so fluid, and both Seattle and Vancouver are magnets for elements from all the world’s peoples and cultures. But it’s not the same thing as immersing oneself in another country… so I often live vicariously, following the lives of others, as here on BURN, on the internet, in books and photographs and films… much as I have ’embedded’ here, I cannot give up my ties and my longings for other places… in my mind and heart I spend as much time in Japan and South Korea as I do in Bellingham or Vancouver. Is this any way to live?

    Or is there any other way to live… that I could wholeheartedly embrace? Any answers can only be tentative, conditional, and personal ones. For young or not so young photographers, restless and hungry to devour the world as I was, I have great sympathy. My tentative answers as to how to live, those of a 63-yr old who has already done a fair bit of globe-trotting, are not ones that I expect to be anyone else’s. The Buddhist influences that I have absorbed try to tell me that all these grandiose desires will only breed more grandiose desires that are ultimately unattainable and will only beget more suffering. The environmentalist in me deplores the amount of fossil fuel that will be consumed in globe-trotting lifestyles. Other parts of me applaud those of you searching with such passion. And a part of me wishes I could fly off to Vietnam tomorrow with no thoughts of return.

  • please know the pictures from Rio shown here are NOT my recent work for Natgeo as i think i stated clearly in the post…the pictures here are from a two day shoot from the New York Times and a 5 day shoot from L’Express in Paris 8 yrs ago, both pretty much concentrating on the beach …

    i cannot show the work i am doing now of course, but they will be quite different and of much deeper magnitude…and yes yes, i want to do a book…well, i always want to do a book, but i see this as a soft back almost big thick magazine style book..anyway, i am a long way from a book..it will be fall before i can show what i am doing now…

  • SIDNEY..

    yes, i too have worried about the amount of fossil fuel i have used in globe trotting as you say…however, globe trotting was thrust upon me…never my goal…and , as i believe you know, Rio is not just another city for me…it is a part of my long term project documenting the Iberian diaspora..25 yrs worth from which sprung both Cuba and Div Soul…my two other projects coming, Outer Banks and American Family are both quite literally close to home…i need go no further…the “distance” and travel aspect of Rio is unfortunate, but i have been involved in this migration so long that i cannot stop…i will learn Portuguese now as i learned Spanish before…i share your desire to steep…that is why i MUST come back to Rio one way or another…however, i have never considered even for a nanosecond that i had “grandiose desires”…i dislike travel…i do however love the feeling i get when i am able to capture some part of a culture, or some slice of humanity , that maybe will give pause or reflection or enlightenment for someone somewhere…because for sure that moment will never happen again, nor will the culture be the same even by the time my work is seen….let a few years pass, and the work takes on the nature of historical document at its least…that is what makes it all worthwhile for me…

    cheers, david

  • How funny David, to hear you say you don’t rush in to look at your photos. For several years after I got into photography I hated everything I did for the first two weeks or so. I had to let it wait or I would delete it out of disgust. Two weeks makes a huge difference in how you see your work. Now, I am not so much that way. We all know you will find excellent photos in your collection when you do look at them.

    I understand freezing at 68. Here in Maui we have had a north wind for 3 days and I can’t stand the windows and doors open and wear a cotton robe and slippers in the morning when I get up and an extra blanket on at night. The thermometer I purchased because I couldn’t believe it was 70 as indicated by the weather has confirmed that it has never gotten below 68. But it is cold! And my mainland friends are scoffing at me also.

    And you are living the life you must. Why question it now? You are who you are and you are an incredible amazing photographer and life changing teacher. Regarding electricity, etc., put everything on auto payment and buy from the auto parts store a device that separates the connectors from your battery. The cat doesn’t really need you she is just playing you. And trust me, your family totally gets you and wouldn’t know what to do with you if you hung around like a “normal” person every day. Love life? That’s a bit different.

    Can’t wait to share my photos that were accepted in the juried show that opens Saturday. I’m amazed my photography has turned to black and white film and shooting with a Rolleiflex. I was introduced to the camera and techniques of using a light meter last summer by a friend of mine in New York. He loaned me his Rolleiflex and I loaned him my old 5D. Best thing I ever did in photography, aside from taking your workshops. Your lessons on light and only shooting in “the” light has really been reinforced since using this camera.

    Have a safe trip home.

  • DAVID,

    I think we are actually quite in synch on the whole gamut of issues I tried to lay out in my little confessional piece, even if our personal answers at the moment may be different. I never meant ‘grandiose desires’ to apply to you in particular… more to me, actually! And I can only applaud your long-range commitment to Rio and look forward with anticipation to the work you will share with us. And I can easily understand how your involvement with Rio may feel like the culmination, or at least the next necessary and important step, of a lifelong trajectory of work for you. To which I say, “Rock on!”

  • DAH, Not sure if you are flying into Norfolk or need a ride, but I am there all next week 8-11 and can give you a lift to the OBX.
    Just drop me a line kazs@md.metrocast.net
    Kurt

  • David, nice post and a good question. My answer is: yes, this is the way of life I live right now! I love it, but I admit there are some downsides as well.
    Just returned to New Delhi after a few days in a small town in the the tropic Western Ghats of Kerala, India. After 36 celsius in the tropics I am back to a moderate 27 degree celsius… no idea what that is in Fahrenheit…
    When I looked down on India from my plane window this afternoon, I thought about all the great people I have met in the past two weeks and the beautiful places I have seen and this wild Indian way of life I have experienced – well, I love all this, but at the same time it also shakes me pretty well. Yes, I want it this way. It is an emotional roller coaster ride and an assault on my senses.
    I love to dive into a different culture and experience a new way of life. To me it is a precious gift to have the opportunity to do this. And yet I also know that as Sydney said, I am only a tourist, an outsider, a visitor – yes with great interest, but still all these great places I see are not my home. My home is a small village somewhere in Germany and on all my travels I am always aware that this is where my home is. Or let me use a term that climbers use, it is my base camp. This place is the beginning and the end of any trip and certainly the place I want to call home. These days I have made a little room in Delhi my base camp II. This evening when a mad taxi driver manouvered me to my base-camp II, it definetly felt like coming home.
    I will be off next Saturday to another trip, this time on a train so it will be more environmentally friendly and certainly even more of an adventure.
    All I know about my home in Germany is that the first flowers are out and I have some new windows, my car gets used by my sister, but apart from that I have no idea what is going on in the world – no internet for a week… I guess the olympics are over… nobody is interested in skiing here… Cricket is on…
    Yes, coming home is never easy, the hardest part actually. Suddenly the adventure is over. The silence is my greatest fear… hm, no idea how I will manage this. There is no guide book for coming home yet… I think it will take at least a week until I have settled back into my ordinary life.
    On this trip I noticed again how much I enjoy to meet new people and dive into their lives. The last week I have spent not only in a beautiful scenery, but I stayed in a home for mentally disabled women, went to orphanages and yesterday evening I was at a place for handicaped children. It was such a joy to meet these kids. Language was no issue – we had fun and I really enjoyed to be with them. Hard to explain these moments – simply magical. I love these moments and at the same time they are a pain in my heart because there is always the moment to say good bye. This is the downside of this kind of experience. Maybe I take it too personal, but this is the only way I can do it. No doubt, the emotional roller coaster ride will go on for a long time. Maybe the only cure is to go back some time in the future???
    So far all my days were extremely busy from the morning to the evening and just yesterday I had a bit of time to myself to take a look at what I had photographed in the last two weeks. Some nice shots, but plenty of crap as well. The journey continues for another two weeks. We will see.
    David, enjoy the last week in Rio and I wish you plenty of good light!
    Best
    Reimar

  • Thank goodness we are talking about this! I’ve been heartbroken for the past two weeks since arriving home from India. I’ve been to India 13 times, often for months at a time. Have loved it from first sight but the last week of my recent trip, spent at the Kumbh Mela took my heart and soul.

    I came home sick. Down and out..yet all I’ve thought about day and night is going back to shoot more. I finally came to the decision to go for it…booked a ticket for next week to get back for the Second Royal Bath, working on trains, a room and then this morning was reminded that there is a new visa rule in place in India…once you leave the country you can’t come back for two months. So that’s it…dream over :((( for now at least. It will be 12 years before this event takes place in Haridwar again, a long time to wait. Of course in the meantime I will continue with other projects both here and in India.

    DAH I absolutely feel the same way as you about looking at my work. Can’t do it for a number of reasons… Too attached to the memories right now and too devastated by a major “photo tragedy”…the loss of my card wallet with all my (thankfully unused) memory cards the night before the big event I’d flown halfway around the world to shoot! Still haven’t gotten over it. Would love a “re-do” but guess I’ll have to Let it Be.

    Dedication? I spent the night laying on the cold ground in a tent with two Naga Babas (naked ash covered sadhus) so I could be in prime position to shoot the event:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/30716737@N08/4404633730/

    The short answer to your question: For me, this is what it’s all about. What makes my heart go pitter patter. I wouldn’t want it any other way, heartbreak and all. I LOVE EVERY MINUTE OF IT.

  • You know, I have a life of whole fabric here in our happy little burg-I suspect that the fabric is mostly lint, though, but I could be wrong about that.

  • Jamie Maxtone-Graham

    I believe it is a Chinese saying that says, “May you live in interesting times,” which I tend, largely, to agree with. I might amend it to, “May you live an interesting life,” which it sounds like you are having little trouble doing.
    And wasn’t it Marley who said, “No woman, no cry.”
    No apologies necessary……

  • a civilian-mass audience

    once a master …always a BURNIAN…

    “real life”…aha…Damnit …not in my dictionary…aha

    I LOVE YOU ALL…Speechless …aha…for now

  • Be assured, David – your cat will remember you. Homecomings play out differently with different cats, but they always remember.

  • “temperature has dropped to a chilling 68F”

    Hmmm; thats 20C, a typical NZ summer….. That’s a bit like going up to the islands (Vanuatu etc) in their cold season, June. You’re walking around in a t-shirt and shorts and your legs so white it looks like you’re wearing cricket pads! Yet the locals are all wearing polar fleece and beanies!

    Also; how to spot a Kiwi tourist in Australia. The only ones swimming on Bondi Bach in August who actually think the water is warm! :-)

  • a civilian-mass audience

    “Home is where one starts from.”
    T. S. Eliot

    We are Universal…therefore …we start from everywhere…aha…

  • Greetings David.
    I’ve heard that this traveling photojournalism stuff isn’t the romantic life that many visualize. But you’re either drawn in or not. I love to travel occasionally, but I really love home, my wife, the beach and my interesting activities. I am always amazed at the living you make out of your suitcase.

    In contrast, the weather here is gale force winds from the chilly north. It’s been rainy and 40 degrees, but I savor the solitude and tranquility it brings. The ocean is over-washing again. Nature is in control. We’ve been eating lots of oysters and fish.

    I understand your fireplace is done and awaiting your arrival.

    Enjoy your Rio, and I wish safe travels to you.

    Take care.
    Mike

  • jenny lynn walker

    It is a strange life – my family call it ‘wierd’, but as a child growing up i never really fitted in and liked to explore. When we go, we leve the familiar behind and every time, risk losing those we love forever. It is hard in many ways.
    Last weekend, I found out in the most heart-warming way that my parents are able to forgive me for being away for 4 years. We also met abroad for the first time ever – and it was magical. I hope I will never again be away from them for so long and reading your opening lines David, for a moment even considered that this should be my life’s last big photographic foray.
    But just as that thought was settling, i came across Cathy’s comment on Haridwar and remembered that that was a place that I missed out on last time I was in India. And, that even though my last experiene of India was quite disasterous in many ways, found myself wishing i could be back there again.
    Perhaps this way of life is how it’s meant to be.

    I have shared a few of my favourite quotes before but not on here. I hope you like them:

    “I will not be just a tourist in the world of images, just watching images passing by which I cannot live in, make love to, possess as permanent sources of joy and ecstasy.” Anais Nin

    “… all of us are dust or sand, all of us are rain under rain. They have spoken to me of Venezuelas, of Chiles and Paraguays; I have no idea what they are saying. I know only the skin of the earth and I know it has no name.” Pablo Neruda

    and, in the same vein:

    “As a woman I have no country. As a woman my country is the whole world.” Virginia Woolf

    It’s 6am in Singapore – and the world is waking up for another precious day… enjoy it all!

  • Dear DAH,

    Interesting rhetorical questions… I am in a kind of similar situation at the moment… I don’t know my answer though. I tend to listen to my intuition, which in my particular case contradicts the logic and even common sense… this listening to my intuition and ignoring common sense worked for me in the past, when I left military career and went to New York… I am again in Lithuania now… While it’s very personal, and complex… nobody can really tell one what to do, where to go, what to choose… I would appreciate any of your thoughts. The thing is: Basically, I have become a solitary wanderer… with camera. Although, besides military education, I have MBA, I would not be able to work any “proper” job anymore…I am 34. My home country is too small for me in every way. I am thinking to sell my precious little house in Vilnius and to go to New York, if I don’t manage to get the US visa, maybe Toronto… but this has to be in North America… although, I can easily go to London… permanent living in London isn’t for me, I have tried, very different from my dream city New York… in many ways. If I sell my house, and I must do it if I want to make a move to Americas, I will become a person wanderer completely… without own place to live, and without any property, besides new camera gear that I would acquire. Renting isn’t an option, because it would be too little money for funding my start in Americas…I am broke:). Own house is a very good think to have – practically and mentally… but life isn’t only about that, is it? If I don’t make it now, then when?… If not successful? What then?… Maybe, I am thinking too much and I would better rely on: “life will take me where it will” ?…

  • Frostfrog

    Yes, sometimes they punish you .

  • “is this any way to live? or, is this the only way to live? i know my answer…what is yours?”

    Oh my. How I resonate with what you have written. Much as I love my home, my Eddie, the everydayness of it all, nothing makes me feel more alive than the laser-like focus, total immersion, creative fire that comes during an extended photographic shoot. When you’re in that place, nothing else matters. Bills? Birthdays? Responsibilities? Taxes? All that matters is the next shot, your inner eye always open to new possibilities, your inner voice crying, “This is it. Take it!” Life takes on a vibrancy, even when things aren’t working out as you’d hoped or planned. It’s like those last rays of sun before the flaming orb disappears into the ocean; you know you can’t hold onto it so you savor every moment as if it were your last.

    When I’m living like that, it is all about process not product. Sure I hope some of the pics will be keepers but that’s not what lights my fire. Simply living like this, with such incredible intensity and fervor is what enthralls me. And it doesn’t have to be an exotic locale or even particularly special in anyone else’s eyes. It can be as ordinary as life can be. But nothing is ordinary when I’m trying to document it. The most mundane thing takes on extraordinary meaning.

    As I photographed Phil and Scott’s everyday life together they would tease me about my getting so excited when they’d start to wash the dishes or fold laundry, shave or take the dogs for a walk. It was all magical, to me anyway.

    And now I’m back home, happy to see my sweetie, to sleep in my own bed, to work out at the gym and get back to swimming laps. I was ready to come home. I’d pretty much blown my wad in terms of energy and intensity of focus. That’s not to say I was done with the project. I won’t know that until I’ve tried to create a nice tight edit. And in order to do that I’ll first need to stand back from the photos I took and let myself develop a thicker skin, one that will allow me to see the work objectively, to disengage myself from the memories that surround each shot. I’m finding it hard to do this but will keep trying. I’m fortunate that I don’t have an editor breathing down my neck; I can take my time and try to do it right.

    So, to answer your question, David, it may not be for everyone but as far as I’m concerned this is the only way I’d want to live my life.

    Patricia

  • Cathy;

    I was a bit like you when I came back from Timor Leste. In the end I decided I just needed to give myself a swift uppercut and get on with it… :-)

  • Patricia

    Experiencing life through a camera lens is something that non-photographers don’t understand.
    Recently, after visiting my mom for a three day weekend to celebrate her 80th birthday, my wife commented to me how I must have missed so much because I was always taking photographs. I tried to explain how rather than missing what was going on, photographing makes you hyper-aware of whatever is going on. It is more than a way of life, it is sort of a spiritual path, a meditation.

    http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/moms_80th_birthday&page=all

  • Gordon L,

    I don’t mean to disagree with you in general, but there are times when I deliberately leave the camera behind and make no attempt to photograph… such was the case last week when I took two Canadian friends to see the Korean National Dance Theatre’s one-night-only performance of “Chunhyamg-jeon” in Vancouver during the Olympics. I photograph dance a lot, and Korean dance a lot for that matter, but I disapprove of photography during a formal dance performance in a theatre… for one thing, even if it isn’t prohibited or the prohibition isn’t enforced very strictly, it’s an intrusion for the other spectators. In this case I probably could have gotten away with sneaking some shots, but I would have felt shabby doing so. More importantly, I find I cannot really surrender myself to the total magic of a premiere dance performance if I am busy looking through a camera viewfinder. Either I am there to make photographs, or I am there to have a different kind of full-immersion cathartic experience. This may not be true for you or for other photographers, but for me sometimes the camera really does get in the way of my enjoyment. Of course I’d love to have come away with images other than just the ones in my memory, but sometimes that must be enough, at least for me. Many of the most moving events of my life (and this was one for sure) are ones I haven’t and never would try to photograph.

  • Nah I don’t buy that hyper aware caper it is tunnel vision mentality if anything…..there is a better sense of place without looking through a rectangle. Shoot a few friends or next of kin funerals and the difference will be quite obvious.

  • Concerning this little debate – once, back in the very early 90’s, in late May, at about 4:00 AM when the Arctic light was simply exquisite, I was feeling very tired as I had been going for about 40 hours straight. I sat my cameras down on the lower ice of a pressure ridge, then walked about 30 feet away and plopped my butt down atop a block of ice right by the edge of the lead.

    Suddenly, a pod of maybe 40 belugas materialized right in front of me, their white skin appearing somewhat pink in that hour’s light. They came churning through the water right in front of me and it was magnificent to see. I was entranched. I knew that I should run back and grab my cameras, but I could not pull myself away even for the brief time this would have required of me.

    So I just stayed put, no camera between the belugas and I, and watched in awe as they passed by.

    I have thought about that many times, and the photo that might have resulted. I had photographed belugas prior to that and I have photographed belugas since – but never, ever, did I see it like that and I don’t ever expect to again.

    So I wonder about that missed photograph. Yet, strangely, I never can bring myself to feel bad about having just sat there, taking it in only with the lenses of my eyes, in total and complete solitude. Just me and the belugas. No camera clicking – no worrying if I might screw it up and miss the picture because, without a camera in my hands, there was no picture to be missed.

  • Hi David.

    Haven’t had the opportunity to stay in contact here at BURN forpast couple of monthers, this year, so I hadn’t realized you were away this long. Love the look of the colour in your images. Something looks a bit Kodachromish about them..I’m desperately hanging on by my fingertips.
    We’re all Bower birds in one way or another, and rather been one shining a light rather than one hoarding things away.
    Still looking forward to talking. After the huge flurry of scanning where I got over a thousand images up I realized it may be well way too many, so have stopped for the moment, but still have many thousands to go.. Not to many in my mind, but possibly to many for others viewing such a site as PHOTOSHELTER. I don’t know.

    Cheers.
    take care.
    Peter.

  • hmm..

    i do feel hyper-aware visually, (beate would testify to that :ø), yet that has nothing to do with whether there is a camera to my face or not.. constantly seeing photos – looking for them – is a great pleasure.. past-time.. not living through a camera lens but living with a camera in yer head.

    the travel side of things is somewhat irrelevant really – you follow your interest where it takes you, and if you´re lucky / unlucky enough it takes you on the road.. again and again.. traveling without purpose though is like cooking without purpose, and while that can result in an unbelievable feast it also has the potential to produce some unpalatable flavours.

    i think one of the most misunderstood aspects of working abroad is that it is all fun.. all good exotic and rewarding.. no.. i adore it.. there is a romantic side which adores people watching at airports n bus stations.. that side also loves the first mumbling stumble out of a hotel and the first meetings with new people, of whom there are an endless supply of when moving away from home.. in part dependent upon the kindness of strangers, while also being potential pray to the worst kinds of people.

    the side which really bites for me has always been the stomach cramp on closing my front door behind me and tucking the key away.. the walk to the first mode of transport can feel light headed, fearful and nerve wracking, depending upon the job and destination.. the loneliness of spending a good part of every weekend traveling and utterly alone in thoughts dominated by concerns.. has the hotel been booked okay? will the contacts i have to meet be fine people or dogs? will i get the shots i need? have i got enough funds to cover the expenses?

    am i heading into another ´lost weekend´ of hedonism of the rough or the smooth kind?
    thoughts which only subside for me upon switching on the bcc in the hotel room and sinking in to the bath on arrival with a drink of some kind.
    i miss that first bath and drink a great deal.. the wave of relaxation.. free thought and excitement of teh unknown before leaving the hotel, sometimes for the last time in days :ø)

    10 years of that and i needed a break and did not travel for work at all during 2008.. during which time the returning security and control over my weekends and the people i chose to spend them with felt good.. great.. had a baby with beate to celebrate .. lovely times.

    now though.. that 1 year in 10 is over and the gypsy in me is demanding more of an outward aspect again.. the randomness and external influences, good and bad, all add up to the most rewarding of changes in perspective.. something potions can not do.. photographing, whatever the subject, which results in moving around is amazing.. meeting such a high volume of people is a privilege.. beate wants to work abroad with children.. there has been talk..

    last year we managed to take our little family to croatia for 5 weeks while i worked.. then i worked in ibiza for a week.. the travel is creeping in again.. this year will bring a few more trips perhaps.. and more around my new home country..

    always with a single goal.. always with focus.. it can get to a point where the world feels like your backyard and all the potential friends like neighbors with a shared passion. traveling with the pure intent of photographing your interest is an incredible buzz – so long as you´re able to let the detractors wash over you.

    easy it is not – and perhaps that is one reason why those who say they would like to do it never do.

    those that want to do it are doing it already.. wear the suit you want to wear tomorrow, today.
    the coming home is never that bad for me these days – coming home is never an end, rather it is a new start with fresh perspective.

    wafflewafflemumblemumblejabberjabber

    d

  • PETER….

    one of the reasons my older Rio pictures may look “Kodachromish” is because they were shot on Kodachrome…welcome back…

  • David B

    I’ll let you have a speech in my future wedding!

  • DAH Asked “is this any way to live? or, is this the only way to live? i know my answer…what is yours?”

    Its certainly A way to live. …….but the only? Certainly not for me. Its the one I choose at the moment. And I love it, except when I hate it.
    In a previous life I lived a precarious decade, scavenging from day to day for money to put in my arm (later leg..later still feet..later still..lets not go there). No possesions, no responsibilities, no conscience. No yesterday or tommorow only NOW. it was an experience I wouldnt trade for anything. A completely alien world to most people. The adventures I had in that life were many(as were the tragedies)….but that life is gone.
    Now I make pictures.
    I travel round the world, or around the city I live in, watching a world that is not really mine, capturing little pieces of it in frames. I am a visitor in it for however long it is before its time to move on again, as there is nothing material in my life now that i couldnt walk away from tommorow, cameras included.
    And who knows when tommorow will come calling? A new experience beckoning? or what it might be….thats the best part.
    So; A life?, certainly. The only life? probably not for this camper.

    JOHN

  • Dearest David,
    I can understand the state you are living now, and trust me, I’m with you.
    Not that I want to compare whatever you’ve been doing in your live as a photojournalist, but when I went to Rio to shoot a story, I planned to be there for only one month and I ended up staying for 4 month, where I totally got in love with the city and its wonderful people. Rio reminded me a bit of Palermo, a continuos shift between paradise and hell, love and despair.
    There I have met some amazing people, some of which I kept contact with, some others unfortunately they passed to other worlds or in jail for their life. Going back to London from Rio, has had quite a brutal impact on my own life. Here in Europe or in western cultures there are many grey areas where people usually fit perfectly, compromising between personal life, commodities, business, and leisure. In places like Rio, Palermo or other areas affected by terrible plaques such as war, civil conflicts or social disaster, you find only enemies or friends, no grey areas, no compromise. This is what I miss from there. I hope next time you’ll have to go to Rio, I can come when you’re there, so that we can discuss even further these things in front of the first “saidera”!!
    Big UP for real
    Mimi

  • definitely : this is the only way to live
    un saludo y mucha suerte en rio
    neven

  • “….yet now my home front porch beckons….but, will my cat remember me? has my electricity been shut off ? battery run down on my truck? yes, my “real life” has been on hold…even patient family and friends are fed up with me…no responses to emails….missed events…forgotten birthdays…major responsibilities undone…

    of course no woman can put up with me…

    i will spend the next week apologizing to everyone about everything…and so it goes…”
    ——————————————————————————————-
    ahhhh…tell it like it is..
    thats the other side of the same coin imo..
    biggest hug

  • Regarding kodachromey sorta moments, David, how much I would like to talk about your work! I’m not being critical (in a negative way). You give so much you certainly can’t be expected to give it all, but still, I’d so much like to hear about the aesthetic and technical considerations that went into that work and how you see those y2k Rio photos in the larger context of your development. I have my own ideas, but hesitate to discuss them publicly out of respect for your reticence. Looking at the magnum link, biting my tongue, biting my tongue…

    Regarding leaving the camera home, or at least in the bag, I’m all for it. Sydney’s example explains my feelings quite well. As photographers we bother people by necessity. A photographer’s obstructionary and/or auditory presence at any event takes away from the enjoyment of the event. As a photographer, I have to feel that there is some larger purpose that makes that worthwhile. I’ve gone to a couple interesting dance events put on by an organization that I have previously worked with at similar events in a venue I have shot in the past. I had my bag, but never got out the camera because I knew from the lighting and the places I could go that I would not likely not get anything I would want to show. Most likely, I would only bother people. I went to the first event partly out of nostalgia, but was mainly just blown there randomly by the wind. It has occurred to me to get back in contact with them and make arrangements and get some worthwhile photos, but I’m at the point where that’s how I want to approach things–not willy-nilly throwing myself in front of an event with slim hopes of getting unlikely results. That said though, I do find it hard to just enjoy these events for themselves these days. Last night, for example, I noticed I spent about a quarter of the presentation figuring out where the light was coming from and how it was affecting different skin tones and reflective surfaces from different angles in the room and silently critiquing the photographers who were working the room and kept putting themselves in my, and everyone else’s, picture.

  • “If you live to be a hundred, I want to live to be a hundred minus one day so I never have to live without you.”-pooh to piglet

    “Piglet sidled up to Pooh from behind. “Pooh,” he whispered.
    “Yes, Piglet?”
    “Nothing,” said Piglet, taking Pooh’s paw, “I just wanted to be sure of you.””

    call me wearied, but sailed and spun by breath, but in truth i sometimes weary of the question of how to live, how the ‘you’ (meaning I) must live, instead of the how do ‘WE’ live…for in truth, i’ve never thought, or cared, much about the hows of my life, singular, as to the ‘with you’….i’m a worrier, a constant worrier, not for myself, my life, my work, but for those i love, i care much much more about how they live and love and remain safe…

    just last night i spoke to my younger brother on the phone….as some know, he had a heart attack (uninsured) last October and since has continued to struggle with maintaing his health (he’s done a fabulous and brave job of that), his family and family emotions, his business and home (he’s a fisherman with his own boat and charter fishing business)….and last night, we spoke of his big struggles of late: it has been a horrible horrible year…and has only a few trips over the last month and a half…pitching against the struggle, now, just to survive financially, emotionally, experientially….not a damn thing i can do to help but to keep sending him love and listen and wrangle small things for him and his family….

    and in truth, that is the only thing i care about…not my photography, not my writing, not my books, but hte lives of those i love, my wife and son, my parents and in-laws, my brothers and their families, my friends….it’s a hard balance for most of us, i include myself in this equation, only focus on ourselves, on our living, on the way we make our happiness and twined mark in the world…on bad days, on sad and wearied days, i feel emptied by much of what i do, i feel often emptied by jobs and mentalities and occupations and philosophies that focus on the ‘me’ on the promotion of self on the questions of how ‘i’ live, as oppossed to how ‘you’ live…..

    it is sometimes what i feel is so selfish about each of us, myself above all, ….

    to david’s question, i answer it simply: on good days, i feel like James Wright, we all step out into the field and bloom and become one and fragrant…

    on bad days, i answer it even less poetically: i have not fucking idea how to live and how to protect those i love……

    no answers, no long essay, just an I dont know….

    but i shall continue to try until i go with trying to make some small goodness: to help and to ring out those small corners of my life by real getures of love….

    how to do that…i am still learning….and it often aches…

  • I have of late – but wherefore I know not – lost all my mirth, forgone all custom of exercises; and indeed it goes so heavily with my disposition that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory; this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o’erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilential congregation of vapours. What a piece of work is a man! how noble in reason! how infinite in faculty! in form and moving how express and admirable! in action how like an angel! in apprehension how like a god! the beauty of the world! the paragon of animals! And yet to me, what is this quintessence of dust? man delights not me: no, nor woman neither.
    HAMLET

  • I was the victim of a series of accidents, as are we all. — Kurt Vonnegut

    I travel round the world, or around the city I live in, watching a world that is not really mine, capturing little pieces of it in frames. I am a visitor in it for however long it is before its time to move on again, as there is nothing material in my life now that i couldn’t walk away from tomorrow, cameras included. — John Gladdy

    Fuck shakespeare.

  • It was then I knew I’d had enough,
    Burned my credit card for fuel
    Headed out to where the pavement turns to sand
    With a one-way ticket to the land of truth
    And my suitcase in my hand
    How I lost my friends I still don’t understand. – Neil Young

    Fuck Shakespeare indeed!

  • hey michael, glenn: dont u go fucking with The Bard…i mean, he was the inspiration for tHE dUDE!….:))))

    “Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance.”- Vonnegut

    and by the way, 2 of those pics above are from David’s Divided Soul…..i just never saw the ballerina shot before….

  • …. is this any way to live? or, is this the only way to live?

    incidentally just finished watchin A SERIOUS MAN …. which does make you think twice about living by the rules and being a responsible person at all times …

    ,,,,, honestly i dnt pay bills on time .. remember stuff … or organize and manage my time well when I am at home too …. like my laptop battery is busted since approx 2 yrs ….. and my d200 is full of scoth tape to prevent the ruber grip from falling apart (i have spent money doing way stupider things thn gettin a new grip) ……. and my room looks like nothing less then a shelter for 20 homeless people of various shapes and sizes ….

    but … in the past two years ……. have learned the craft of sleeping on other peoples couches …. bribe the indian railways officials to gt a reservation on the ultimate crowded train …… and concluded that a wardrobe is a luxury and every person with more than half a wardrobe for himself should be taxed more …

    most important… have definitely learned some stuff about photography … and am working towards making a portfolio to blow that photo editors mind and probably gt an assignment

    but still am not sure if i would drink a day old brew witout nuking it …..IMHO …..thts just plain wierd :-))))))) cheers vivek

  • OH MY HEARTIES,

    This one has brought out the Bards in all of you… and how I love you all! (Sorry CIVI, not trying to steal your lines in this play…)

  • Thursday morning haiku

    I should not complain
    The work I do bores to tears
    but I’m still employed

  • Yeah !! for burn, for David and for the dark light of this nothing, all spotlighted in the March 2010 issue of The British Journal of Photography. It’s in print now so I’m hoping you UK folks can get it easily…and the rest can see the layout on my site under In Print (http://ericamcdonaldphoto.com)
    Thank you again DAH for having me in your burn house, so much good comes from this place.

    Some words from the piece by writer Julian Lass:

    ***********************************************

    The Dark Light of this Nothing is New York photographer Erica McDonald’s latest project. A tender study of the long-term residents of Park Slope in Brooklyn, the series is meant as a tribute to the remnants of a community undergoing gentrification.

    It started when Magnum photographer David Alan Harvey challenged her to take on a more long-term assignment and see what she could come up with. Gritty, monochrome, and combining square and 35mm format, the images mix formal portraits with street shots.

    Recording interviews was also an integral part of her approach from the beginning. “During the first two months on the street corner we would ask a person already photographed to do audio. But towards the end, I got a more emotional feel. Birds, people’s feet on the pavement, a gate opening, neighbours talking among themselves.”

    It adds up to a haunting, whimsical soundtrack, and the multimedia piece can be seen on Harvey’s influential webzine, Burn (www.burnmagazine.org). -Julian Lass

  • Imants, Frostfrog

    There is truth to both sides of the coin.

    Frostfrog, your blog tells me that you photograph your life constantly. Perhaps you use it to try to define the significant moments, and people for yourself.
    On the other hand, the mind set of always looking for “the photo op” can be a distraction, and prevent us from just being in the moment.

    It depends wether appreciating tne moment or getting the picture is the goal.

  • erica. Fantastic.
    “I hope this develops and ends up in print (where the finished work surely should be).” – BJP is a good start :)

    JOHN

  • A question to all of you: how do you/did you pick self assigned long term projects?

    I would love nothing more than to start a long term photographic assignment, something I am passionate about, something I can immerse myself in for a long time. But hard as I try, I can’t seem to think of anything that fulfills my basic criteria: 1. it should be something I can be passionate about, and 2. it shouldn’t have been done a millions times already, and 3. I want to avoid anything too “cliched” for lack of a better term.

    hmmmm….

    any feedback will be much appreciated

  • GOOD NEWS today..

    actually i was holding it for a while..
    my press pass just arrived…
    Ara Guler’s agency/IZ Magazine/ FOTOGRAFEVI decided to represent me..
    I just received my Press Pass today…next thing is website…exhibition and if money goes well maybe book…
    ahh maybe the book is too early too dream,,,..
    Last issue of IZ featured DAH’s work in cuba, Marcus Bleasdale and more…
    Previous issue Paolo Pellegrin…Prior to that Roger Ballen and on and on..
    Also FOTOGRAFEVI published Nikos Economopoulos’s very successful book BALKANARDA…
    FOTOGRAFEVI represents ONLY , ARA GULER & MAGNUM photographers..
    its a very special day for me..
    Anyway sorry for bragging..i just couldnt keep it inside anymore…of course some friends, good friends already knew…
    big thank you to BURN…big thank you to David Alan Harvey & anton ( for all the motivation/inspiration and exposure here in Burn..)
    and a
    big thank you to Nikos Economopoulos …and of course Hasan the editorial director of IZ/FOTOGRAFEVI
    and one more big thank you to EDITOR IN CHIEF , mr ARA GULER …
    biggest hug
    peace

  • Panos – fantastic and even more fantastic to see you beaming with light!

  • You look like a happy guy Panos, congratulations!

  • Congrads to both ERICA and PANOS! … and to DAH for being the midwife that lets these great things happen.

  • CT,

    Probably my point of view matters very little to you… but I think, don’t torture yourself with those long term photo projects… recently, they have become very popular among starting photographers:))… Just keep taking pictures… moments, shapes, light, compositions, characters… Get yourself involved in very short projects… your long – term project will knock on your door… if you force yourself to look for your long term project, it will never come… ok, if you really force yourself, it will, but it will end up just as a short attempt…

  • CT

    “how do you/did you pick self assigned long term projects?”

    Hmm, difficult question, I have several at the moment. But I always get a feeling of seeing a path that I can follow in the start of a project. If I don’t get that feeling, then it’s no good. I guess curiousity about what I can find is always involved with my projects. And it should be easy to say what the project is about in one simple sentence, not something vague (this is a problem for one of my projects actually…).

    “1. it should be something I can be passionate about”

    And what is that?

    “2. it shouldn’t have been done a millions times already”

    Forget that! Don’t pay too much attention to what other photographers are doing, pay most attention to your subject and your own work. When you start spending a lot of time on a project you will find new ways, new possibilities, new angles. And I guess that’s why it’s so difficult at the beginning, because you start out with nothing and it feels like nothing will “come to you”. But once you start working it’s easier.

    “3. I want to avoid anything too “cliched” for lack of a better term.”

    This might feel less relevant once you find something you’re passionate about.

  • Very well, lots of great news, congrats all around.. thread is appropriated (or appropriate?): working.. that what it takes! :)

    CT, do you have family, kids, parents, friends, collegues, who participate in activities you know litle about? Which seem interesting? Start from there, all you need is a start, then things evolve, develop, branch out and soon you have more than one long term project. Keep yourself open to change..

  • Anthony

    “Just keep taking pictures…”

    This is probably better than any of my advices.

    Never stop taking pictures!

  • ERICA AND PANOS

    H-U-G-E CONGRATS TO OUR ROAD TRIPS/BURN STARS!!!! The success you are both experiencing is because you deserve it. Both of you inspire the rest of us with your dedication, talent, passion, perseverance and humanity. You are making your mark and we are all so proud to know you. And this is just the beginning. Dream big and may your realities become bigger than your dreams. BRAVO AND BRAVA to Panos and Erica!

    xxooo
    Patricia

  • ROSS.

    A swift uppercut? Ouch! :))
    I’m getting there, just trying not to hurt myself too badly in the process.

    VIVEK.

    Wish I had your skills with the Railway officials to get on the Shatabdi Express to Haridwar.
    Although first I’d need to get past immigration which appears to be impossible. :((

  • Kids…thank you…(and once again big congrats to erica..)

  • panos ! give details – how did it come about?

  • Erica – I took a look at all of the “in print” material on your website. Very impressive.

    Gordon Lafleur – Thanks for visiting my blog. After having spent so much of my life away from wife, children, home and family, I am simply trying to explore the world around me, the one that includes all of these elements, before it grows too late.

    And, despite its severe limitations, I love doing it with a pocket camera, so that I don’t have to carry around all that big, noisy, instrusive, spine-bending equipment.

    Panos – congratulations.

    Patricia – Just revisited your spread as it appeared on Lens. Just wish that I could meet you some day and just sit and chat for awhile. You probably noticed that when that spread first appeared, I left the first comment. In fact, that might have been the spread that introduced me to Burn. I can’t remember for certain – but it was last fall through Lens that I discovered Burn, so it may well have been.

    Gordon L – Some cats are like that, but I find most to be pretty forgiving individuals.

    Vivek – Your posts always make me lonesome for India – your’s too, Cathy.

  • ok..erica before i explain deeper let me tell you about IZ Magazine for a second…
    IZ MAGAZINE latest…
    Issue no25 (last month’s) featured: Paolo Pellegrin, Christopher Morris…and 5 more emerging portfolios,
    Issue no24 : David Alan Harvey, John Delaney, Marcus Bleasdale & 4 more local photog portfolios,
    Issue no23 :Cris Steel Perkins,Robert Lebeck & 4 more portfolios,
    Issue no22 :Bruno Barbey & 5 more portfolios,
    Issue no21 :Raymond Depardon, Roger Ballen, Erwin Olaf,& 3 more emerging portfolios,
    Issue no20 :August Sander, Leonidas Papazoglou & 7 more portfolios…

    very nice printing high art magazine…
    Hasan is constantly checking Burn for new emerging portfolios…The mag is in Turkish but also in English …
    It is distributed all over the world by subscription…I hope our Burn prints should be done there..Great printing work…We were also talking with Hasan for a Burn Turkish edition with of course DAH’s approval…
    my story next…

  • Burn translated in turkish i meant…

  • Panos, one quick question: can the IZ mag be picked up at the gallery (fotografevi I mean), or at Ara Güler’s café?

    Did you land at Ataturk airport or the other one, forget the name now, if it’s the latter, is it easy to get into the city center? Thanks!

  • Panos; I’m surprised you managed to keep it quiet for so long! Damn sure I couldn’t :-)

    Here’s one for you all. Every time I read Kerouac’s “On the Road” no amount of Granny Scholl’s foot powder will stop the feet itching…

    “They danced down the streets like dingledodies, and I shambled after as I’ve been doing all my life after people who interest me, because the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones that never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn…” – Jack Kerouac, On the Road

  • “I like too many things and get all confused and hung-up running from one falling star to another till I drop. This is the night, what it does to you. I had nothing to offer anybody except my own confusion.”

    – Jack Kerouac, On the Road

  • now…”my” story is pretty simple..
    Nikos introduced me to Hasan (editor) as the workshop assistant..
    When i got into his office i introduced my work through links and of course BURN…
    Hasan had already the latest Burn page open in his laptop..He confessed to me that
    he is constantly checking Burn for emerging folks…Thats how he discovered John Delaney’s
    essay couple months ago..
    To make a long story short he asked me to see my Burn published work..he had missed venice beach coz its been more than a year…After the presentation i had to go.. Workshop was starting…Couldnt let nikos wait…
    Anyway next morning he simply announced to me that he wants me to be part of FOTOGRAFEVI…but he
    needed approval by the big boss…mr ARA himself…next day my zeiss lens gets fucked up…no news from Hasan except that he took my lens and told me “dont worry”…Yeah right..my only 28mm..super expensive..i was crying…dont worry??? sure..
    The following morning Hasan didnt show up..i was freaking out..i thought that my lens was unfixable..i mean too expensive to fix..i only had 100TL around $60 left..
    Afternoon came..i said to myself “fuck it..que sera sera” ..I went for a coffee to Ara Gulers coffee shop..
    There i see Hasan sitting in a table with Ara Guler talking in a very serious way…It was Ara’s wife that just had died..2 days ago…
    I decided not to interrupt them..but Hasan saw me.. He stood up…came to me..saying..ok lets go up to my office…he was serious..Without turning to look at me, no eye contact.. he says to me..”Bad News..”
    i didnt know what to think…i was speechless..and then…then ..turned around and he gave me a big smile..
    “Your lens is fixed…you’re good to go..”
    Man what a feeling , i was the happiest man on earth..or thats what i thought…
    and then he continued..its not only that..its getting better…i want to represent and sell your work..i only work with the Magnum guys you know…sit down, lets discuss the terms and contitions..percentages etc…
    that was it…that was last friday..
    since then i cant take the smile out of my face..
    big hug y’all…

  • “since then i cant take the smile out of my face..” And why would you want to? :-)

  • Eva.. go up in the gallery..its easier…and then enjoy your coffee at Ara’s…
    Now the best/easiest /cheapest way to go is ATATURK AIRPORT…then exit and ask for the HAVAS buses..
    its only 10TL or $6 and go all the way in the end of the route..which is Taksim Square…the city’s center..
    Istiklal street starts right there…take Istiklal all the way south and less than half a mile later you are in front of Ara cafe…across the Fotografevi gallery…easy…no taxis involved..

  • …and Eva dont forget to pick up a Nikos’s book …its 3 times cheaper on the gallery…at least..bargain..

  • …Erica…ALL…one good thing is that IZ does not feature photogs for free…of course Magnum gets better prices but the emerging photogs also get paid…Also..I, by no means have any influence on the editors there..of course not.. there is no way to influence them about who to publish or whatever…I could only suggest..if that ..and thats all..
    but whats for sure…They look at Burn…24/7…first great step is to be published over here..thats the KEY..

  • Thanks, Panos, will do, except from the other airport flight already booked.. will do and will do.. and will have too much weight getting home but who cares?! Cool story.. keep smiling ;)

  • Eva…dont hesitate to email me if you need more info…
    innerspacecowpanos@gmail.com

  • Erica: congrats…that’s a wonderful right up….

    Panos: as i told u privately and in public: big congrats…so happy for u….as i told u in nyc at the loft, light comes from within, and radiates and that means more than the shit that surrounds: one must not only believe but act it to…so so happy for u….ships change, as Odysseus knows ;))))…..tell IZ to go through the burn archive: they have a lot of homework to do :))

    will share great Black family news for all after april 1st, so stay tunned ;))….

    and yes, positivity and hard work wins and believing and remembering we’re all here, everything, only ’cause of others…true in all walks of life…

    gotta fly away for a couple of days

    hugs
    b

  • “…of course Magnum gets better prices but the emerging photogs also get paid…”

    I don’t understand – Aren’t they a gallery / publisher of magazine and books? Are they also an assignment agency?

  • either way, fantastic, I just thought I might not be following

  • Panos, it is good to see you smiling :))

  • Erica…i meant that whoever gets published in the magazine gets paid…If for example you get featured in a next issue you are getting an amount of euros for that…( a fixed amount )..
    If you belong in the agency then you get a percentage if they sell any of your photos …in an exhibition or a collector…
    Above, i was only referring to the magazine only..

  • Ross i hear u..:)
    Tom..:))))))))))
    bob …cant wait for the Black family news… in tune..:)

  • got it – very nice

  • Erica..they dont give assignments for the mag..just publish ready/done work….Copyright is still yours but you get a fixed price to be featured…thats all… i hope i make sense…

  • ohh..we were posting simultaneously…

  • we’re all here, everything, only ’cause of others…
    —————————————————-
    absolutely true Bob…

  • Anthony & Bjarte & Eva:

    Thanks much for your feedback. I guess I knew there is no easy answer to this, but it always helps me to hear other people’s thoughts. Maybe my approach to finding a good project is too analytical, but then that’s just how I work. I am hoping for some sort of epiphany :)

    But yes, in the meantime I keep taking pictures, plenty of them…. there doesn’t seem to be any unifying theme among my images but then maybe there doesn’t even need to be. Does every picture need a purpose? hmmm….

  • Erica

    You do such great stuff. Things are humming for you.

    Frostfrog re. point and shoot

    Yes, love ’em too. My little Fuji f30 is amazing. http://www.pbase.com/image/120806748

  • PANOS – congratulations Mate! you will go far with a mug shot like that!

  • DAH – in a way glad to here that there we suffer from a similar afflication…focus on the passion in life and letting everything else slide : ) My wife struggles with this… : ( But we are working on it : )

    PANOS – I saw your post on facebook but had no idea of the full implications. That’s AWSOME DUDE. Congratulations. I can’t help but feel really excited for you…and so it begins….

    ERICA – Congrats to you as well. Loved your piece on BURN.

  • Howdee Yaw’ll, Howdee!!!!

    I’ve drifted into the zone of a long range beacon, so I’m takin the opportunity to touch base.

    Captain Harvey, Sir,

    Obsessive Compolsive… that’s how you photographers are, just like ma cowboy partners down there on the Great Plains, waking up next to the ember glow in
    the cold grey of the first light, smell of a new day, smell of the herd, smell of the dust and grass, smell of last nights empty bottles… Yaw’ll love it, heck that’s what life is all about.

    and Harvey, the boys at Huston relayed your little Zen bag skit… laughed myself half way to Jupiter. Been thinking about it, about a series, next episode… Harvey’s Hats, I can see the pitch, ‘it’s Seinfeld meets Bridges of Madison County’ HBO gonna love it. LOVE IT. Probably want to add a few characters,
    you know how them folks love to meddle…. maybe Panos and Erica… for contrast. Four characters is the
    proven formula.

    Now as for bag weight an aw’ll,
    ma NASA boys are experts (as you well know) on the art of minimalism, heck they’d shave the legs of an ant for better weight efficiency. So I’ve been in (secret) communication with em and you’ll be darn pleased to know they’ve come up with an excellent solution. Tickled pink, I’d say. But it takes a brave man, one with guts, the calibre of a National Geographic photographer or a NASA pilot I’d say.

    Captain Harvey, Sir, you need light weight backage, you don’t want folk looking at ya gear neither… well all them clothes, heavy jackets, heavy pants…
    you need to shoot nude dude! Yes, I know, I know, heck the answer is so simple, it’s genius, it’s been right there all the time.

    You’ll save several kilo’s and discover the agility of a preema ballerina , jack be nimble they’ll all say as you float by, you’ll discover new angles and a stealth only known to the rare elite. and heck! who’s gonna look atcha Leica while your tackles free and easy?

    I remember how they aw’ll scoffed at the shiny silver foil them there boys at NASA came up with back some years now, but heck, who’s laughing now.
    Radical ? yeap! but heck Harvey, as one obsessive compulsive to another,
    It’s the only way to shoot ; )

    I once new a girl from Rio… but that’s for another time…
    now go eat some cake and tropical fruit for breakfast , you do eat breakfast Harvey? us cowboys just scrape out last nights pan, but heck! your in Rio dude.

    Now, the rest yaw’ll…

    CIVI… where are you CIVI???, hope you ain’t got lost it them there mountains? You know I Love ya, but heck, I’ve got work to do, just lik Harvey, I’m on a mission and the darn boys at Huston won’t allow me no Tweets… they say it messes with internal navigation equipment…

    Bobby Boy… you got ya ears on??? too many deadlines, heck we need livelines not dead ones, and make mine the P one’s, I wanna get funked up,
    HELL YEAH!!!!

    OKEY DOKEY,

    çççç ∑∑ πππ ˙∫√∫√∫√∫∫∫∫√√√√√√∆∆∆∆∆∆ƒƒƒ˚˚˚∆∆∆∆˙´
    œœåååß߬߬ß߬ç≈≈≈≈≈≈’’’’’’’’∆∆∆∆∆∆∆√√©√©çççççç

    LOVE PEACE & PHOTOGRAPHY

    Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Haaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    (I’m waving my hat above ma head, when I do that – thought you aw’ll might like to know that).

  • PANOS
    Con grat tu fucking la tions!!!!
    You deserve it!!
    Amazing how your life has changed since leaving LA…
    all good….

    ERICA
    you are BuRNING it up!!!
    Congrats again!!!!!
    ***
    Go
    Burnians
    GO!!!!!

  • CATHY ….. the two month rule is for immigrants with a visitor visa ….

    if you really really want to b here again i suggest try getting a work visa …
    in my knowledge …… there aint the 2 month rule on that one ….

  • Just finished watching a really interesting doco about conflict photography called “Images of Conflict.

    There was short segment where the late Phillip Jones Griffiths’ daughter showed an photo of a group of Magnum photographers wearing T-shirts with something along the lines of “Digital manipulation ruined photography”. I’m not 100% sure but our very own Mr Harvey looked like he was amongst the group?

    However; my eyes probably aren’t what they used to be, but it made me chuckle! :-)

  • FROSTFROG

    So, in your non-Burn life you are known as Bill Hess? Your comment on Lens meant/means so much to me. I’m so happy to know who wrote it! Yes, let’s mmake that chat happen sooner rather than later. Burnians have a way of meeting face-to-face when we least expect it.

    PANOS

    What a story!!! Wow. Who’d athunk where your journey would take you once you’d returned home to Greece? Makes me think of a line from TS Eliot’s Four Quartets:

    “We shall not cease from exploration and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.”

    ALL

    It sure helps to be part of a community that helps me know I’m not alone when the demons come calling. As so many have mentioned here before, now that I’m home and looking through the photos from my recent shoot, I’m having such a crisis of confidence. But because of others’ sharings, I realize this ambivalence comes with the territory of being a photographer who cares deeply about what they are doing. And that this too shall pass…

    Patricia

  • Here is a terrific example of a multi-media piece from the New York Times featuring photos by Todd Hessler, on of the NYT staff photographers, about a Haitian troubadour named Beken trying to rediscover his music and recreate his life in the wake of the earthquake:

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/03/05/world/americas/20100305-haitimusic-audioss/index.html

  • Patricia; “I’m home and looking through the photos from my recent shoot, I’m having such a crisis of confidence”

    I think sometimes you’ve just got to let the dust settle a bit and you then tend to see the images from a more pragmatic viewpoint..

    The problem with photographing people is that such a personal experience. When you are so close to the photos; and in your case know the people very well; it’s difficult to stop your personal attachment to the experience getting in the way of a critical eye for the image.

    Last night I shot some kids playing cricket with a tennis ball on the street outside the folks place. When I looked at the pics last night I liked a few. I had another look at them later last night and hated the lot. This morning? Well the jury was still out. This afternoon? Yea there’s a couple I like, but I think I’ll let them sit for a day or two! :-)

  • CT

    “Does every picture need a purpose? hmmm….”

    No, I don’t think so.. but.. you’re talking ‘long term project’, so maybe ask yourself: why? Or, the other way around, since you’re taking plenty of pictures: what is that it is missing, that you miss? What do you want to achieve in the end?

  • Yes, Patricia, Bill Hess and Frostfrog are the same. I did not really intend to not be Bill Hess here, but, when I registered it asked me for my real name, and it asked me for a nickname. So I gave it both and showed up as Frostfrog.

    I will be on the Nantuck the last week of this month and New York right afteward, but that’s a long way from you.

    But come and visit me on my blog.

  • ROSS

    strange – that doco was on tv here in norway last night..
    very good interviews all round.

    PANOS
    great news.. enjoy.

    ERICA

    the BJP peole are amoungst the very best – well done.. with the mag changing format from a weekly to a monthly and all – even better than it used to be :ø)

    space cowboy within range.. good news all round..
    good start..

    here´s to evolution..
    d

  • Glenn…you r right..that is a mugshot…
    Frank..:)))
    Space Cowboy???? you appeared again? out of the blue…amazing.”..I once new a girl from Rio… but that’s for another time…”..No Cowboy..thats the time,…
    Wendy..:))yes..Life is a non stop travel..every single day ..every single minute of it…
    David B..thank u..:)))))
    Patricia..i dont really feel i “returned” to greece…I feel i started moving, travelling…dont forget though that all the above happened actually in Turkey which is the arch rival enemy of greece..laughing…but one thing is more sure…the Balkans and Southern europe is an interesting region…Lots of political games…20% unemployment in Spain…Italy has big problems coming up…greece close to bankruptcy …Its a global economy now..think of America…deficit..foreclosures…loans from China etc…its a domino effect…Are we going down? Or is it just another “joke”? A “fake” crisis? A “fake” crash/depression?.. All those apr increases …all those credit unions? The Stanley Morgans and Rockefellers and Wall Streets love putting the whole world in debt…I think its unfair to blame it to the citizens of the countries while their governments take the big loans and share the profits with the bankers and then..folks like GW (ex president) blame the crisis..not on the wars he created but on the little guy..the average consumer that spends too much gasoline or to the greek little guy that borrows too much..
    bullshit..its a game…dont buy it…
    man..i got carried away…
    Pat, i loved the TSEliot quote…but i dont think i really reached my destination…. I feel that im hovering over my first hometown right now counting the losses and the dead…I need to know what to fix and how to continue…that endless trip called life…But there is one thing i need to finish here before i disembark once again…I will soon tell you all about it…
    anyway…5th day on this couch somewhere in the athens city center…
    time to pack my shit and move up north west…at my fathers house…i missed rain…but i what i enjoy the most is that i still have no home ..even in a place that is so called home…go figure…
    ok ..gone.. a 6 hour trip awaits..
    big hug

  • Panos?? our nice president (Italy here) keeps telling us again and again and again, on a daily, almost hourly basis, that we don’t have any problems, crisis is over and all that, you think he might be WRONG??? Yikes!

    Crazy with how much BS he’s getting away.. will email you later, need some info, thanks, and safe travel!

  • Eva,
    same happened back home in the States… GWBush used to tell us the same thing…for quite a long long time…
    “Consume” he was saying..support the market…Support the WAR…
    in the meantime people couldnt ( and still cant afford to go to a doctor )..and families are losing their homes one after the other..Falling..like dominos…but..but..but..coincidentally the Rockefellers get richer and richer..and not only…

  • Yes.. scary thing is that there’s people out who will believe it, whatever happens.. massmedia control is pretty heavy here.. most stupid thing I’ve seen lately in TV is a spot, done by the government, about lottery gaming, they invite people to play.. with moderation of course.. all that matters is to keep up the hope and vision of a fake dreamworld that relies on money.. argh, I better stop!

  • …and questions still remain…
    “who put America in debt? why the Clinton surplus became the Bush deficit?”
    “who is behind the Southern European Crisis coming up?”..
    I dont mean to be cynical eye…but one of the main reasons i started travelling is to find a real answer for my own self…I used to live comfortably numb for quite a long time in california…
    And then Arnold the Governator showed up…and then california almost went bankrupt..the The Bush family showed up..and then boom..9/11..wars..misery ..foreclosures..whatever happened to american dream?
    And then i woke up… I knew the answer is not that simple… when i came to visit/examine Europe few months ago i found desperation at its fullest..now that America slowly slowly starts recovering..now Europe is fastly falling apart..Am i cynic enough to say that now europe will be a “paradise” for PJ’s..and photographers…
    Huge economic problems..huge Immigration problems….its a war over here…its a “Nachtwey” world…
    Big war…victims are falling wounded…without even one shot gets fired…Poor getting poorer..
    viva globalization..Viva European Union…The War just started….We (us) need to record all that…
    Personally im curious to also examine & record the consequences in Asia after im done with this old corrupted european joke..(world) i meant to say..

    Eva..yes ..email me whenever u like… i’ll be visiting my father tonight…(Organic tomatoes from the garden, family olive oil and a homegrown chicken awaits…enough with the extra fattening hormones..i need to get rid of that victoria secret bra..laughing…

  • eva…
    even worst here in grecolandia..the government wishes people to smoke more so to tax them a little extra to find some extra euros…pathetic..sad…

  • who photographed my chicken???????
    where was I?????
    oh i know..i was having lunch at KFC (Kentucky Fried Chicken)…next to Michael Jackson…
    :(

  • Panos, the most important step is to become aware, from there you can change.. not the world, but your very own world at least.. babysteps :)

  • Vivek, Cathy…
    Immigration is as tough in India as it is in America? I wonder why? in this global economy there are still borders?…
    I think poor people should be allowed to be poor in any country they choose..imo
    Look at Germany for example… Its been a while now that a poor ex Eastern German can also be poor in West Germany…
    thats real democracy..;) The rest of europe did the same…or is it the opposite? that a rich westerner can expand his richness in the East?
    grinning

  • ROSS…

    do not know the photo to which you refer, but doubt i was in that photograph….or, if i was , certainly not wearing one of those t-shirts…i never took the extreme view on digi manipulation…

    ERICA…

    very nice piece on you in British Journal of Photography….congrats and hugs

    PANOS

    so, you have an agency!! fantastic…now, you must do a lot of work to get your photographs into the archives and make the agency and your photographs work for you…that means good ideas carried through…i do not know that specific market , but i assume they also have various sub agents and distribution in other markets…we were getting ready to publish your Greek essay here soonest anyway, so you are rolling….

    CT..

    do not worry about whether or not something has been “done before”…only think about finding your passion or more importantly playing it out when it strikes……if you find that light, then whatever you do will be original regardless of subject matter..and as Anthony RZ says, you cannot force it…

    VIVEK..

    you already know i am “just plain weird”, so why would cold coffee surprise you?

    cheers, david

  • Panos,

    Well done on the great news.

    Who would have thought that a visit to the homeland would have turned into such an adventure! But perhaps you did know all this crazy stuff would happen?

    Are you planning to stay in Europe for a while? Perhaps we’ll have an opportunity to meet?

    Don’t go abusing that press pass now… :)

    Cheers,

    Justin

  • DAH…if it wasnt for BURN….well u know what i mean….

    Justin…
    i will abuse that “press pass” to the fullest…:)
    i hope we meet…before i leave home to go back home
    …at some point…soon
    but it worths exploring this old continent…old mama europe that i missed so much..

  • MIMI…

    i guess i should have known, but i did not know , you had spent so much time in Rio…so you do know what i mean…and yes i can see the comparison with your beloved Sicily…yes, let’s meet and compare notes, experiences etc…..

    SKIWAVES..MIKE HALMINSKI…

    nice to get a report from home…yes, i too do not mind the cold rainy winds from the north…i get work done on those days and the solitude is refreshing…every day a summer day would get old…i like the seasons…my favorite upcoming…so , the fireplace repair done..thanks for this…there are still some good fireplace days left, so please you and Denise join me a week from now…

    KURT…

    thanks for the offer to drive me down obx…however, i am flying back to D.C (the 10th)…i cannot remember exactly why my trip started and ending in D.C…i just remember barely getting out in a blizzard….anyway, a friend is driving me home…you are certainly welcome to join me over the weekend obx for a glass of wine, cold beer, whatever…give me a call and we will see what works…let’s get mike (above), you , maybe Bickford around..anyway, come on down…

    LEE..

    yes, of course, i know about auto withdraw and most of my bills paid that way…just never set it up for my electric for some reason…i have had the house for over a year now and still doing stuff i shoulda done the first month…and i am sure you know, that despite all the travails, i have no lament at all..life is a scramble, but life is good…

    cheers, david

  • but here in europe..im also excited to the possibility to meet in person some Burn folks…
    Justin, Lassal, Katharina,Eva, Thomas, Reimar, David B, Ian,JohnG, CarlosF, Abele, Diego…Eric…
    and get Anton drunk with Sapporo or Asahi…
    who do i forget??????? Damn i shouldnt have mentioned any names…:(

  • laughing…i was about to leave from athens..but i just heard is a 24 hour general strike in athens today..
    stranded? nahhh…. more opportunity …:)

  • europe really isn´t the place you must have left any years ago panos.. you´re not in the same place inside.
    hang around and i think you´ll find it all the more interesting.. LA is okay.. sunny and all that… but in the time it would take to drive to new york you can be in barcelona.. france.. russia.. the alps or the med..

    so much going on here.

  • PANOS…

    you forgot Marcin…where is Marcin? Thodoris is near you now…no meet? John Gladdy would be one with whom to hang, although the thought of you two together scares me just a bit….

  • Ahh David B..i guess you are right…deep inside im desperately looking for a good reason to stay..stay more i mean…you are totally right about that drive though…

  • MARCIN………
    damn i knew i shouldnt mention any names…i knew it…
    (laughing…never been arrested in europe before-just detained..big difference- but im afraid its gonna happen when i meet John…:)))

  • havent skype with Thodoris for a while..u r right..he is in Cyprus…but we skype a lot with Marcin lately…of course i skype almost every night with Thomas B…great thinker…

  • PANOS…

    stick around Europe for just a bit longer and i will be there…Madrid in April..exhibition…Italy in July….and surely some now unplanned trip…i just cannot seem to get invited to Greece….are you blocking my entry?

  • if you behave…if u eat all of your food and do your prayer every night then,,,and only then i might grant u a visa…one thing for sure..if u fell WITH Rio..you will definitely fall in all IN (not necessarily with ) greece…;) how about that?
    and dont forget..we got civilian’s house to stay..:) deal?

  • … if u fell WITH Rio..you will definitely fall in all IN (not necessarily with ) greece…;)
    ————————-
    ..if you fell in love WITH Rio…u will definitely fall in love IN greece , i meant

  • sleep next to a medieval castle from the 12th century… on top of the ancient city of Amvrakia. Sounds cool?

  • hehehe, panso, you’re stuck in athenes.. look here, there were around 50!! of them, stuck in the ice!!

    http://www.lastampa.it/multimedia/multimedia.asp?p=1&pm=4&IDmsezione=17&IDalbum=24687&tipo=FOTOGALLERY#mpos

  • Eva? me? PANSON????
    how did u know my nickname?

  • i envy a friend in berlin for the places he can drive to in a matter of hours..

    we´re the wrong side of the baltic sea up here..
    as the blizzard outside right now testifies.

  • damn.. i also forgot Audrey, Joni K and who knows who else!

  • DavidB.. beautiful.. man Bergen looks like Big Bear Lake in Cali… my refuge for almost two endless winters…any bears there?

  • darned keyboard, it’s all ITS fault!! ;)

    Greece reminded me of southern Italy, central even, but more free than here and LOUDER, cool place, I bet, DAH would love it.. while David B’s looks freezing cold, reminds me of my teenage years.. beautiful to look at.. from inside though ;)

  • it´s all about the elk from what i hear.. still looking forward to a hunting trip with beates brother in law..
    tis amazing – snow easing off now and bright sunshine streaming through.. warm sitting on the balcony with me laptop.. fell out the front door into a knee deep snow drift taking tor capa to nursery this morning..
    yesyes..

  • Panos,
    would love to meet up anytime you are in UK.
    Also I might be spending a fair amount of time in Portugal in the next few months working on a self funded project… also looking for potential sponsors/editorial commissions to cove rthe cost of this.

    cheers

    Ian

  • DavidB… i envy your endless Xmas..the Santa country…sunshine in the city of moustaches…Strike..everyone is drinking coffee and beer…very productive….

    Ian..right now i cant even afford the metro from Heathrow to downtown London…but i do have a feeling that we will meet in a pub over there..:)

  • PANOS…

    will do whatever it takes…deal…

  • All, currently it is difficult catching up .. you have a life .. and I’m back to my … work.

    Panos, I may have an opportunity to come to Athens End of March… keeping my fingers crossed. So .. Europe is still nice, isn’t it? …

    About the way of living .. yeah .. for me it is a dream .. and I try and try .. someday I’ll break free.

  • im just trying to make Civi’s dream come true…
    A pan-Burnian meeting in the country of moustaches…
    Thomas..start growing yours..by the end of march you’ll be ready…laughing

  • in grecolandia..the government wishes people to smoke more so to tax them…

    Be thankful they don’t follow the American model. Criminalize it and collect fines to fund the police budget. Then when that’s not enough, and it never wil be, confiscate “criminals'” property to feed it more always more. Then get really “tough” and throw them in jail and pay ridiculous amounts of money to keep them there. Then criminalize something else to pay for all that incarceration. Trust me Europeans et. al., you don’t want any part of that vicious circle.

  • Panos:

    :))

    mrs. b and i would love a Burnian meet up…it’s been too long…got some thoughts, just give me until after april 1st to think of something…land of moustache is out of our budget…but…(having just finished re-reading illiad and odyssey again over last 3 weeks, im hungering for Ithaca! :)) )

    running
    b

  • What’s with the caper of asking our Greek population to bail you buggers out there in moustache world ………

  • Hmmmmm… time for me to re read those two old scriptures…
    Illiad..Odyssey…yes…a burnian meeting…Blacks included..:)
    What’s not to love????

  • Imants :)
    Obama did bail GM out..why not some moustaches???
    ;)

  • I WILL definitely wear a mustache if it will bail me out too :))))))))))))))))))…

    ALL:

    by the way, on the subject of WORK…here is a poem from the American Poet Laureate Kay Ryan, entitled:

    THE BEST OF IT

    However carved up
    or pared down we get,
    we keep on making
    the best of it as though
    it doesn’t matter that
    our acre’s down to
    a square foot. As
    though our garden
    could be one bean
    and we’d rejoice if
    it flourishes, as
    though one bean
    could nourish us.
    –Kay ryan

    running
    b

  • Our economy isn’t fucked up like the rest of you wombats in Euroland we are keeping our money………. any way Ross over the ditch gets it before you lot!!

  • Our economy isn’t fucked up like the rest of you wombats in Euroland ..
    —————————————-
    ha ha…not yet…;)

  • but i still believe that the moustaches should be bailed out with chinese money…just like GM did..
    after all the GM employees are more that the whole moustache population Portugal included…why not?
    Im gonna visit Beijing in person soonest..
    y’all know the respect my writings have over there..
    laughing..

  • PANOS..

    just published you..have fun

  • Back to working ………………..Tex Pekins sings down here on weekends we perform miracles by turning pay cheques into wine, one working weeks wage at a time.

  • that’s the lifestyle i’m looking for…haha. By the way, i’m going to Rio next week so it’s inspiring to read your thoughts and see your images – i’d love to see the latest ones!

  • thanks all –

    celebrated life and community and friendship and 80s music and the BJP / Mother Jones thing and all that with Kerry and Hillary A. and Kim R. and Gina and others last night after Jason Eskenazi’s SWIPE opening – all the gals say hello burn and hang their heads in shame for not coming around the burn house more :)

  • Panos,
    “Im gonna visit Beijing in person soonest..”

    ah ja ?

  • Kat..;) ok..maybe not…i have no place to stay there..nor any friends over there…
    but i will have a “new” friend in germany soon;)

  • a civilian-mass audience

    I am here …Am I late…???
    I am here…BURNIANS, my BURNIANS, BURNIANS of the world …

    yes, MR.SIDNEY …I LOVE YOU ALL …I love you alllllllll…

    PANOS…you know mate…I believe in you BUT I need to see you real soul…
    PANOS…come on …something is holding you back…come on …Your soul is not in my screen…BUT
    what do I know…I am just a civilian…

    BURNIANSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS……………..I am here…yes, I want to meet you allllllllllllllll…
    busy with your home, red cross,my projects, your dreams, my visions, your photos, your journeys…

    SPACECOWBOY …I am in tears…and I don’t cry often…LOVE YOU .
    KATHLEEN FONSECA…over…I need update…I LOVE YOU…
    JIMMY…MyGRACIE…so manyyyyyyyyy …LASSAL…I need to hear from you…just a BURNing smile…
    I am waiting.

    civi

  • a civilian-mass audience

    typo: on my screen

    I am writing like MR.VINK …aha…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    and where are you my German friends???
    …I love you too…
    ouzo on me…beer on you… the rest is politics…we will talk for that later…aha…:)))

  • David; “do not know the photo to which you refer, but doubt i was in that photograph….or, if i was , certainly not wearing one of those t-shirts…i never took the extreme view on digi manipulation…”

    Well; I did say my eyes probably aren’t what they used to be! But I do think the shirt was meant as a joke :-) Anyway, isn’t digital manipulation the treatment you receive from Customs when they think you’re smuggling drugs internally? :-)

    Imants; Recession? You lucky Aussies have only got to wander out into the desert, dig a hole and you’ll find another billion dollars worth of some element or other to sell to China!

    I was talking to a mate the other day, who like me always seems to be running on a shoe string. We decided that we were broke before the recession, during and after. So what recession? Life just carried on as usual! :-)

  • Eva:

    You said: “you’re talking ‘long term project’, so maybe ask yourself: why? Or, the other way around, since you’re taking plenty of pictures: what is that it is missing, that you miss? What do you want to achieve in the end?”

    Good questions… the only thing I feel is missing is some unifying element. Maybe it’s not even necessary, but it feels like my photography is all over the place, scattered. There was an interesting article in a magazine recently about creating a “body of work”, about developing a “style” . I guess that’s the best way I can put it – I don’t think I have developed a “style” yet. But hey, I don’t want to sound too dramatic about this, I’m just enjoying making pictures and was wondering how others think about these questions :)

    Mr. Harvey [ or David, not sure what you prefer :) ]

    Thank you so much for the feedback. Even after following Burn for a year now I continue to be amazed at how accessible you are. A true gift for aspiring photographers. I will follow your advice, hopefully I will have something of interest to share in the near future :)

  • Good questions… the only thing I feel is missing is some unifying element. Maybe it’s not even necessary, but it feels like my photography is all over the place, scattered.
    ——————————————————————————-

    CT….:)
    This the most important question in the world of photography…music also…
    If u feel that “its” all over the place..scattered…is because thats how you feel inside…
    That doesnt necessarily reflects what others see though..
    In my world i prefer to have a fucked up, scattered life than mess up with my vision…
    And my vision is something that Audrey put in perfect order…Honesty…D’Agata raw honesty….

  • ALL,

    just a quick logistical note, I will be in New Haven CT next week, and Toronto the week after, if there is anyone who might like to meet up and have a beverage or chat. Short times in both places, but free time in the evening I think….

    Bob B? Is that great little bar in your neighborhood still going, and more importantly, think you could withstand another evening of wine and discussion?

    good light, all
    a.

  • panos…

    maybe you should consider a career in psychology, because I think you’re pretty accurate in your assessment :) you said “If u feel that “its” all over the place..scattered…is because thats how you feel inside…”

    I certainly am scattered inside, culturally at least. born on one continent, spent half my life on another continent, and for the last couple of years been living on yet another continent. Not quite sure where “home” is anymore :)

    Thanks for the feedback, and congrats on getting published on Burn.

  • CT

    You say, “Not quite sure where “home” is anymore :)”

    Perhaps you have just identified the subject that speaks to the deepest part of yourself: home and how to find it. My most significant photo essay came about when I forced myself to go head-to-head with my most personal issue: my disability and how I lived it day-to-day. As they say, the most personal subject is also the most universal.

    Patricia

  • CT..
    plz send me an email.. whenever u feel like..u sound my kinda guy/gal..
    innerspacecowpanos@gmail.com

  • Patricia: hmmm… very interesting idea, it seems so obvious now that you said it but I never actually thought of that before. Might be interesting to explore that photographically :) Thanks for opening my eyes to this idea…

    panos: sounds like a plan, will drop you a note soon!

  • CT;

    I think any form of crossroads is a good place to begin looking….

  • Shit yea Ross we all have uranium mines in our backyads run by kangaroos…………..

  • Panos,

    You are the only photographer that I know who show all his photos (planche-contact)… and you are not afraid of displeasing… and you are right :)

  • Audrey..
    thank you…
    i agree…i always do show folks the whole proof sheet (planche contact=sheet-)…
    I don’t know if i’m fearless though…maybe its just plain stupidity getting naked in the eyes of everyone..i don’t know if i’m wasting my time trying to communicate even with spirits/souls that are closed , sealed ,suffocating…
    One thing i know though, for sure…i’m definitely not trying to please them as you say and i’m not afraid of “displeasing” them either…On the contrary ……its much more important the ideas coming from open, unconfined spirits…less waste of time i mean…but even then.. i could care less about “pleasing” them and also not being afraid of “displeasing” them either , as you said…
    thank you ..i think you got it right…:)

  • Panos,
    change nothing, we didn’t meet but I really have the impression to know you… se mettre à nu et très courageux… :)

  • For me, se mettre à nu est un acte courageux = To strip naked is a brave act (the translation is correct??)

  • Audrey we all know what I/you mean…dont worry about your english…yes..

    “…se mettre à nu est un acte courageux..”

    some folks though cant even stand being naked in front of their own mirror…
    It is actually their own mirror REFLECTION that bothers them the most…
    and then instead of doing something about it..
    they simply HATE the mirror…or whoever tries to hold it..
    the “messenger”…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    YES, my BURNIANS,

    We have to dig…dig…dig

    “Look within. Within is the fountain of good, and it will ever bubble up, if thou wilt ever dig.”
    Marcus Aurelius (Roman emperor, best known for his Meditations on Stoic philosophy, AD 121-180)

    BURNIANS… you got the power…civilians like me …we are following your …visions…

    P.S can someone tell me …who is holding the BURNING “ink” for the BIOS (essays-bios)…
    what is she/he drinking??? I want the same :)))

  • a civilian-mass audience

    ok… when is the meeting???

  • Yea Panos, I agree with Audrey on this. You are who you are and it works. Not for everyone of course, but so what? Of course if people stop publishing you because you show too much work, you might re-evaluate your priorities. On the other hand, as you are obviously aware, honest criticism can be good. You can reject it or accept part of it and modify your work accordingly, but for most people it’s a very good thing to get and think about it. For example, I tend to agree with David Blecher in the other thread that the dog and army photo would be better if you lowered the camera, i.e. followed traditional rules of composition. But if you take that kind of criticism to heart will it change who you are? Would you lose what’s best about you? Or would you become a better photographer and storyteller? I don’t know, obviously. Those are the type questions I ask myself.

  • ALL – was just on Mother Jones and Erica’s essay is Up Up Up

    http://motherjones.com/photoessays/2010/02/place-us/place-us

  • Ross: hmmm crossroads… plenty of those in my life. gotta think about that one. thanks for the feedback….

  • ALL

    Do yourself a favour and go see Alice in Wonderland. You’ll be struck by glimpses of hyper reality afterwards! I saw colors, faces, shapes and lighting in a whole new way, almost too good to be true. And lots of ideas suddenly came to me. The world was suddenly a 100% beautiful place to exist in.

    (But I know this feeling won’t stay at the same level tomorrow! Oh, blue tomorrow…)

  • Don’t demystify and disneyfie get the full version of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5wHMgTPF-s

    keep that imagination and playfulness alive ……..too late for you Bjarte

  • Imants

    Thanks for the link, didn’t know about this version. Probably the opposite of Tim Burton’s feelgood approach (I can easily guess which one you prefer).

    True, too late for me, another grey sunday in Norway. But boredom often leads to things I didn’t expect. Boredom triggers creativity.

  • Argh.

    Now I’m looking for two movies, thanks, Imants.. ;)

    Anyone knows where I can find this one:

    http://www.cambodianroom.net/wp/trailer/

  • In the movie Alice is 19 year old, a far cry from a 6 year old seeing the adult world as nonsense ……….

  • http://it.video.yahoo.com/watch/5098554/13526257

    “più sai, più t’accorgi che non sai”

    .. rough translation:

    “the more you know, the more you become aware how little you know”

    Mario Giacomelli

  • a civilian-mass audience

    BURNIANS…

    I am the happiest Civilian … I am sending to all of you good energy…

    CAN YOU BURN IT???

    LASSAL…is going through a journey …and we wish her the best…and to all my BURNIANS…
    (HERVE,ROSA,MICHAELK,RAFAL,MYGRACIE…you are so many…please forgive me…
    …take care ” body and your soul”…don’t give up …
    Your home in Greece is waiting…I LOVE YOU ALLLLL…
    I BELIEVE in you…expect UPS and DOWNS…BUT…keep rolling …Find your own Voice and Vision to your personal Victory…VVV…

    P.S Together we can BURN it…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Oime…what did u do PANOS in Turkey…???

    Latest:
    ‘Strong’ earthquake hits Turkey

  • Great photographs are never ever easily achievable for the average, random person, even if one has a 3000 $ worth of camera gear. This keeps the value of great photographs. Nowadays we see so many clickers around… it has even become a lifestyle for some, and that would be absolutely fine… if their pictures remained on flickr as their photo diaries… not on serious magazines… It’s very easy to tell about the “value” of those clickers’ “work” … anybody can click around… and some even started to call it “a loose style”:)). On the other hand, everybody looking at most of the great established Magnum photographers’ work can tell – “wow!”… and understand that for most of them this level is unacievable… for many reasons. That is the value of photography work. I respect David Alan Harvey as a person, great photographer and mentor. I have seen some very serious work here on Burn… everytime, when I visit Burn, I expect to find something special… be it a young talented attempt, established photographer or emerging talent… and when I find just weak beginer’s clicks which sometimes happens here… I am just against clicking around without thought and discipline, because it sends a message that now you don’t need skill, knowledge, experience, talent, dedication. Everybody is an artist…???

  • There is nothing wrong with being a clicker.
    There is nothing wrong with exposing one’s work on flickr or anywhere else.
    The interesting part begins when the clicker gets a photographer.
    Some people evolve, others don’t.
    To see the special, it is enough to open the heart and let it happen.
    In Germany, we say: “Es ist noch kein Meister vom Himmel gefallen” – “No master fell from the sky”.
    It is in the mix – the Masters, the Emergers and the Wanabes.
    I find it very very interesting to see the work and the person evolving, more interesting than seeing only master’s work, which I could see anywhere else.

    Everybody is an artist. To become a successful artist, one has to stand out.
    One property of success are critics.

  • a civilian-mass audience

    “Now is THE time …”
    TOM HYDE

    Yes, damnit…NOW IS THE TIME…

    THOMAS…keep the screw for me in safe place

    CHARLES…I LOVE FELIX and LADY…the moustaches are BURNing

    ANTONY R.Z… yes, my mate…Everyone is an artist…if you try my mousaka …you will be loose too…LOVE

    P.S Thank you SPACECOWBOY …for your energy…
    JIMMY,KATHLEEN,HERVE,LASSAL,HAIK,MYGRACIE,MR.VINK…so many …I really miss you ALLLLL
    I hope …you are out there BURNing the Universe…

    Civi

  • antony RZ..

    you have such a narrow line of sight.. i don´t know what a ´serious magazine´ is, nor what your real idea of contemporary high quality photography is.. i think though that you have to open up a little and see more clearly what is in front of you day to day – everywhere – billboards, adverts, magazines.. soak in the photo-saturation all around you and then view the work more freshly..
    flickr is a storage device for photographs.. not a style nor movement stylistically in photography..

    the world has moved on photographically since the heyday of some of the artists you mention.. and i would ask you to look more closely at the work presented on burn.. i enjoy looking at photos and trying to work out how they were made.. that´s a good place to start, since it´s a good indication of technique.. look at each photo in context with the photographers body of work.. think about their intentions and motivation..
    it is much more interesting to view work in any other way than to simply settle upon – ¨that is good¨ or ¨that is not good¨, which is frankly a rather banal past-time.
    go and strange yourself into someone elses life.

    now.. if i might criteque the critic for a brief moment..
    your comment on my own work from derry says a great deal more about your lack of vision, understanding of photography as a physical process and art-form than it says about my work.. you´re throwing stones out of frustration, as i see it, and understandably so if you think only magnum photographers are the best in the world and the olden days produced better photographers… to be frank you display ignorance bullishly when perhaps it would be better if you took your current attitude as a motivation to find out more about photography – go and take some more photos, bang a link up here and see for yourself where photography is these days.

    superficial positive platitudes or negative crits such as yours are water off a ducks back – irrelevant really – and so i did not respond under my work.. must try harder, and all that..

    i think you could make your comments much more relevant and much more interesting if you put some work into your thinking and educate your eyes a little more…

    it is just too easy to ¨not understand¨ and build a wall between you and the work..
    much more difficult to widen perspective and seek understanding..

    besides which – every 2000 times you frown a new line appears in your face..
    keep frowning and you´ll have a face like an rhinos arse by 50…
    smile and enjoy.

    d

  • … and to respond to your comment under my derry photos… (in brackets)
    ¨Anthony R.Z.
    February 10, 2010 at 11:56 am
    Neither art, nor documentary… (really?)
    I would even say, not for family album either… (this makes makes no sense to me at all..)
    What is this? Why is this? (have you read the text and my responses below?)
    If these pictures were a part of essay, then it might make sense, but even then… (your opinion.. okay)
    While now… It’s fine to take pictures if you like the process of doing it… but if you publish them… (please look here – http://bophoto.co.uk/about/about.htm – i do not publish the photos – photo editors do .. i take them because i´m rubbish at repairing shoes)
    :ø)

    can you see why i could not be bothered to reply initially?
    it would be great to help you understand..
    d

  • is this any way to live? or, is this the only way to live? i know my answer…what is yours?

    Good on ya Dave !! Its the only way for sure !!

    Cheers, all the best
    Hamish

  • a civilian-mass audience

    DAVIDB,AXIOM,

    I have a face of a rhino arse…BUT from the laughing…and the ouzo :)))

    VIVA…hug my boy TORC and LADY B…

  • civilian mass rhino arse..
    hmm..
    need to change that slide..
    not with axiom agency anymore..

    hugs dispersed..
    :ø)

  • I could write paragraphs about your words David, but my life means I have to be at work in twenty minutes.

    I often dream of being lost in my photography, but those moments are short and when the boss is not around.

  • and i would ask you to look more closely at the work presented on burn.. i enjoy looking at photos and trying to work out how they were made.. that´s a good place to start, since it´s a good indication of technique.. look at each photo in context with the photographers body of work.. think about their intentions and motivation..
    it is much more interesting to view work in any other way than to simply settle upon – ¨that is good¨ or ¨that is not good¨, which is frankly a rather banal past-time.
    — David Bowen

    Well said. There are no weak beginner’s clicks here. And along those lines, if you don’t find a particular photographer’s work to be interesting or worthy, try considering what David and Anton see in the work. That opens up whole new opportunities for insight. Nothing wrong with criticism based on tradition, but I think one does well to keep in mind how many now-iconic artists blew up the traditions of their time and were attacked for it by those who had altogether too much respect for the past.

    go and strange yourself into someone elses life.

    No idea what that means, but I like the sound of it.

  • strange-yourself.. estrange yourself, from yourself?

    i dunno… i think i dunno..

    a new post on making my first book is up..
    ¨beyond the digital files¨- part 16..
    http://bophoto.co.uk/wpwastedbook/

    dull as porridge and relevant as snow-boots on a penguin.
    still.. passes the time.. passes the time..
    d

  • a civilian-mass audience

    DAVIDB,

    where is the party…were you shooting in Greece…it feels like home…
    BUT…hmmm…where is home…???
    Peaces

  • civi.. i have yet to shoot in greece..

    i must.. i must.. if only to fill a ¨set¨ in ¨flickr¨…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    BURN is Home !!!
    Today I was in a METRO watching NAOMI. She was WANDERING IN GREECE. ABU SAKKA promised me…a TROUBLED PARADISE. There is a STRUGGLE TO LIVE in a BOARDING HOUSE…searching for the UIGHUR IDENTITY IN XINJIANG.
    The COPS were chasing someone near a CALIFORNIA OVERPASS.They had some NOTES FROM UNDERGROUND.THE RAPE OF THE NATION ,THE SEMPRE JARDIM EDITE…the STIGMA…everything seemed as a MONKEY BUSINESS. The FIGHT JOURNAL, THE HARVEST OF MAN could be found in ETROUKO THE BOOK…

    BURN IS MY HOME…

    VIVA

  • a civilian-mass audience

    YOU WILL…yes DB…you will

  • ….. DAH …..

    I hope today was an amazing grand finale (for the moment) to the journey, and that you have an easy trip home.

    I can’t stop thinking about this, so I thought I would just ask you, in case you find yourself with airport time and can answer:

    What does it take to become a *better* photographer after a certain point? I want to go deeper into what i can do and feel and express, and I feel torn between trying to cast off what I know (about photography, my past with it and its history in general) and using that as a springboard…I’m talking in terms of continuing the dark light work, not taking a whole new direction. I don’t feel like for me it is about becoming more (invested, honest, etc.) so maybe it is about being less?

  • David B; “i take them because i´m rubbish at repairing shoes”

    http://blog.magnumphotos.com/2008/11/wear_good_shoes_advice_to_young_photographers.html

    See; you never learned anything from that link did you… :-)

  • ha..
    i already had layered newspaper in them for insulation.. :ø)

  • David B…

    Well said!!
    You showed that Anthony guy what’s what…

    Where were you though to restore the balance when people on the other end of the spectrum went on writing dithyrambs elevating Panos’ latest work to the pantheon of photography?
    Panos is the same as Nachtwey?? Did I miss you comeback on that?

    Yes, Panos is a good photographer… Yes, he shows to have the ability to evolve… Yes, he has some of the elements that might someday lead him into becoming one of the great ones… *No*, he’s not a great one *yet*…

    Its one thing to say “good for you to get published once more in here” and quite another to claim his work to be “the shit”… it wasn’t… not this one.

    “Loose” can be a most valid approach… if you get too loose though, you can get lost…

    And what’s that about seeing “where photography is these days”? A while back I met a German photographer who was shooting plain concrete walls with an 8×10″ camera, and then exhibiting her work in major galleries as 40×60″ prints… my reaction to her work was “what the…” and the fact that there is apparently a whole school of photography taking this approach doesn’t make me second guess my own thoughts and feelings about it… we either think for ourselves or we’re sheep…

  • thodoris..

    i was responding to antony regarding his post under my own work really.. his repeating himself here seemed almost an appeal to try and understand.

    you´re quite right that we either think for ourselves or we are sheep.. my mentioning to antony about looking around and seeing where photography is at was more about his referring to the greats of photography who photographed during a different time.. with a different level of photographic saturation.. and at a time when the proliferation of photography was much less wide..
    HCB – of his time just as Parr is of his..
    of course while photographing it is perhaps better to remain unaffected by where photography is now..
    do what you can and what you enjoy.

    walls sounds very boring indeed.. actually a great deal of photography is very boring, so i tend to just click away from it if it is contrived or imitating a school of thought..
    no point listening to elevator music ..

    good work which speaks about the photographer always leaps out.
    panos as natchwey, pantheon, blahblahblah.. not interesting.. i don´t actually read all comments and must have missed that one..
    funny stuff.

    swapping platitudes and all that could be encouragement, so long as it´s not actually believed.. because believing our own press leads to a mighty downfall.

    my thoughts on ´greece´ fall between sidney and johns to-the-point summaries.. no point repeating.
    i don´t think the work is genre defying.. yet it is more interesting than a lot of what is out there – in part for the context it is shown within here..
    :ø)

  • the thing is with panos’s work, and you can see it clearly in the istanbul link as well as the bubble and squeak stuff, is that he is invariably pointing the camera at the right things and has a good eye for a shot..but seems a lot of the time to be ‘snatching’ those shots. There are a lot of ‘nearly’ frames there. Maybe its a hyper active thing, maybe its some kind of intentional flourish..maybe its an attitude thing…’fuck rules’ etc. Whatever.
    Reality is that most of the great iconic stuff that looks sloppy is anything but.
    Once your kit is essentially an extension of self you can be as gonzo as you want because you dont have to THINK about stuff anymore, you just be yourself and shoot.
    I know young guitarists get really disillusioned when they find out that their heroes spent years practising scales, and learning theory, and all that boring shit about modes…they want to believe that they were rebels born with a guitar strapped to them and that they picked up their axe on day one, were instantly fantastic, and just spent their formative years chasing booze and hookers. Most dont want to know about the massive amount of time it takes to make something look effortless. Watch someone like DAH working..it looks effortless and totally natural..because it is. Because he doesnt have to THINK about aperture/shutter combinations, light, focussing. Its all become instinct, so that he can just be himself and immerse himself in the moment.

  • ¨I know young guitarists get really disillusioned when they find out that their heroes spent years practicing scales, and learning theory, and all that boring shit about modes…¨

    that is bang on.. lots of electronic musicians now bemoan the fact that they have no acoustic training.. layering knowledge.. that kind of thing..

    hendrix probably began with tune-a-day

  • I think John G. is touching on something important in his last comment. I’ve been reacting to a different aspect of what I think is essentially the same thing since reading a couple knocks against beautiful photographs over the course of the Panos thread. When it comes to Gonzo sensibilities and altered states of vision, I am much more open to new and/or strange ways of seeing and describing the world than most, but I think it would be equally limiting to think that there is no place in photography for beauty. Many things in the world are beautiful and one of photography’s traditional strengths is to show the beauty in what most people reflexively see as banal or ugly. This relates, I think, to John’s, et. al., point about developing skills.

    The biggest problem I see in knocking beauty is that beauty is what people who buy photographs are most likely to buy. Nothing against burn magazine, you know I love it, but National Geographic pays a whole helluva lot better and they pay for beautiful, technically very-well-made photographs (one could probably make a pretty convincing argument that technically very-well-made photographs are inherently beautiful, but that would be a different essay). They, and other top publications, typically require a very high level of what is traditionally considered technical excellence as well as vision, or authorship. Capturing beautiful photographs for these type publications is not easy. It requires many skills that have nothing to do with the mechanics of snapping a picture.

    When we talk about rules we might do well to consider where the rules come from. My guess is they were developed informally over the years based on what people are willing to pay for. Editors codified them, to the extent they are codified, based on customer feedback. Photographers had to learn raise their skills, at minimum, to the level the rules required in order to sell their photos, get, or keep a job. Although every now and again someone like Panos comes along who through a combination of skill and personality can jump a bunch of hierarchies: most working photographers will find it necessary to go out on jobs and take what is traditionally considered well-composed and well-lighted photographs. They must have the skills it takes to do that in a wide, if not infinite, variety of lighting situations. And they must be able to take a beautiful photograph, whether they like beautiful photographs or not, if that is what the boss requires.

    I know David Harvey makes the point that with current technology it’s easy for anyone to take a technically perfect photograph. No offense David, but I think it’s more fair to say that current technology makes it ridiculously easy for you, David Harvey, to take a technically perfect photograph. Normal people still struggle. Sure, it’s a lot easier these days, but this newly acquired ease is mostly mechanical. One can get a reasonably good photograph without being able to focus accurately and quickly, fiddle with the light meter or calculate the flash setting, but the real skills — composition, sensitivity to light, storytelling, etc., are intellectual and require serious study and practice. Just like, as John points out, playing guitar.

    No, I think the great majority of people wanting to be serious photographers would do well to concentrate on mastering the traditional skills, learning to make beautiful photographs, and then doing whatever the hell they want with those skills.

  • john G/Mike:

    this will be short, literally running…

    i couldnt agree more. as a photographer and writer who gets bored easily with ‘pretty’ pictures and simple stories, i still love to see great pictures and read great books (shit, i plowed my way though lotsof 18th century stuff this past year) and my affinity for rule breaking as everything to do with my own aesthetic, my own attempt to find meaning in work….but…i agree, that has come after learning how to make pictures (the old fashion way with film and old cameras and alot alot alot of shit stuff and reading and practicing and re-learning and listening, etc)…same true with reading/writing…took me years to learn how to write the way i wanted to ;)))….

    certainly with programmed digital cameras and post-processing software, it is so easy to make pretty pictures..and actually, im happy for that. most of my students, amateurs (whatever that means) who take picturesw and love photography are just happy making work that makes them happy…i think it is important that all people do their homework: i mean, anyone interested in being a photography should try to see as many different types of photography and open themselves up and then make the choice they make…i still look at NG pics sometimes and think ‘damn, fuckin lovely!”…and the same goes true with the photographs on the oppositie end of the spectrum…

    for me, it’s just a simple thing: each person learns on their own, learns and decides to make pics the way that best speaks to them, inspires them, etc…the punk sensibility in me just, a piori(?), makes me not want to make pics the that rely on the camera…i want the camera to depend on me, or rather, i just want the camera to be a vehicle, a tool, a media, through which i can grapple with and express something that seems to be stuck in my gut and wants, like all hell, to get out….

    i think we must not dogmatize any way to work, no matter what…because, i’ll repeat again, the pictures that make me sing (my son’s crazy outoffocus photos of dacha and apples when he was 7, for example) may not be the same…and the brilliant thing about photography as a media is that it is soooooo open to possibilities that can, in fact, reach the range of each person tring/wanting to make something….

    as for playing the guitar: yes, to be a classical guitarist, it takes years and years of practice and i love and respect that, but also, a kid who picks up a 6 string, out of tune, can also bend me….i know, i once was such a kid ;)))

    cheers
    bob

  • took me years to learn how to write the way i wanted to ;)))….
    —————————————————————-
    …the punk sensibility in me just, a piori(?)
    ————————————————-
    as for playing the guitar: yes, to be a classical guitarist, it takes years and years of practice and i love and respect that, but also, a kid who picks up a 6 string, out of tune, can also bend me….
    —————————————————————————————-

    below two examples of “horrible” “ugly” guitar players that are totally gonzo and never learnt any rules or knew how to play any “better”…

    example one:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vwwFiaSXHk&feature=related

    example two:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TZ_9-rbslo&feature=related

    ok, third, major example…a “mediocre” guitar player that was never able to read or write a partiture..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7qpfGVUd8c

    laughing..sorry john…

  • as for playing the guitar: yes, to be a classical guitarist, it takes years and years of practice
    —————————————————————————————
    yes..exactly…if you want to be a classical…but a Hendrix or Cobain or Harrison or Lennon does not need that..
    same with photography if u want to be McCurry…or in singing if you want to be Pavaroti…or opera singer..
    but think of “ugly voices” like Rotten or Dylan…
    some folks prefer ELVIS…i prefer CASH…
    preferences..preferences…

  • but dont get me wrong…i never said Elvis was not a great singer…10.ooo better than Johnnie Cash..
    Regardless…
    i still prefer Cash over Elvis thats all…

  • : most working photographers will find it necessary to go out on jobs and take what is traditionally considered well-composed and well-lighted photographs. They must have the skills it takes to do that in a wide, if not infinite, variety of lighting situations. And they must be able to take a beautiful photograph, whether they like beautiful photographs or not, if that is what the boss requires.
    ————————————————————————————–

    Michael..i agree with you 100%, when it comes to a job or a boss…

  • Panos. you dont think curt and steve practiced for a long time before they got to there? Nivana were around a long long time before they made it.
    also “Bill Price, the engineer on Never Mind the Bollocks, Here’s the Sex Pistols called Jones one of the tightest guitar players he has ever worked with, implying that his chord and note timing were precise and impeccable. As well as lead guitar, he played many of the bass guitar parts on the Never Mind The Bollocks album, due to the inability of Sid Vicious to play to a satisfactory standard in the studio”

    Of course they learned the rules, the ones they needed anyway. Jones was in bands from the early 70’s learning his trade. You think he just picked up a guitar in 76 and made NMTB? Dream on.

  • and Michael :)
    i worked for lots of bosses in LA…and in athens…to pay bills…but im not presenting those photos here…
    if for example i have to do a wedding , trust me i will definitely use a strobe…if i have to do fashion i totally agree that the perfect colors in the clothes is the given…etc… I do agree with you..
    customer first…
    but when it comes to “my” stuff…my “soul” first…this is one of the reasons i do less and less assignments for other people…i quit the studio i was working in LA for quite a while preferring working as a tow truck driver instead of doing silly photos for pay…
    i totally agree with R.Ballen’s attitude ( that was so openly been attacked & hated here last month ) that prefer NOT to take assignments from any “boss”…i find it quite honest..
    Trust me..Bob’s photos are never gonna be liked by a wedding studio or a sports studio…and thats fine…thats great actually…
    All that said though…i have no “beef” with “pros” that do weddings…or newspapers…or sports…or fashion…or anyone trying to make a living holding a camera….
    but i cant understand why the opposite happens so often?
    I would never say that my photos, or Vickys’s outtafocus, or BobB’s or Imants’s or D’Agata’s SHOULD be the new “right way”…
    but on the other side, why Steve McCurry’s or Nachtwey’s should be the right way to go????

    and Thodoris!!!??? geez man..where did u read that im “Same as Nachtwey”!!!!!!!???????????
    i might have skipped that comment too coz me & Nachtwey are completely 180 degrees opposite styles…
    not that i compare myself with the Grande, successful James..
    (although i love James as a person-no disrespect here- but my photography has nothing to do with his..and my homelessness has nothing to do with his major success..)

  • you dont think curt and steve practiced for a long time before they got to there
    —————————————————–
    laughing..i never said they didnt pracice…but not in your “Rules school” of thought my friend…
    same with the blues masters..but i know John..now that they are “established” and accepted widely…
    now they became “school teachers”…sad

  • those kids u mentioned John would have been laughed at from classical guitar players..
    Dylan could only play 3 chords till literally yesterday…Oasis guitar player cant read any music book…
    but they “invented” their own sound..same with Hendrix…
    he never new the rules..therefore he never “broke” any of them..
    same as Tom Morrelo from Rage Against the Machine..
    talking about Hendrix…
    “…. His flashy style and left-handed playing of a right-handed guitar already made him a standout. He later joined the Rocking Kings, who played professionally at such venues as the Birdland. When his guitar was stolen (after he left it backstage overnight),…
    Hendrix often favored raw overdriven amplifiers with high gain and treble and helped develop the previously undesirable technique of guitar amplifier feedback.[8] Hendrix was one of the musicians who popularized the wah-wah pedal in mainstream rock which he often used to deliver an exaggerated pitch in his solos, particularly with high bends and use of legato based around the pentatonic scale. He was influenced by blues artists such as B.B. King, Muddy Waters, Howlin’ Wolf, Albert King, and Elmore James,[9][10][11][12] rhythm and blues and soul guitarists Curtis Mayfield, Steve Cropper, as well as by some modern jazz.[13] In 1966, Hendrix, who played and recorded with Little Richard’s band from 1964 to 1965, said, “I want to do with my guitar what Little Richard does with his voice.”[14]

  • Hendrix often favored raw overdriven amplifiers with high gain and treble and helped develop the previously undesirable technique of guitar amplifier feedback
    =====================================================================

    previously undesirable technique
    previously undesirable technique
    previously undesirable technique….

    hear that John? undesirable…”ugly sound”
    back then he was abusing that guitar…according to the “classic virtuozos playing by the rules”..
    but now John , Hendrix is a master…Right John? See , John..?
    see how it works….?
    it happens a lot in history John…it happens a lot…

  • Michael..i agree with you 100%, when it comes to a job or a boss…

    And that’s all I’m saying. Most photojournalists, including DAH, come up through J-School, small town newspapers, etc., where they have bosses and are forced to hone their technical skills. It’s great that some individuals can jump all that, but I don’t think it’s wise to denigrate it, certainly not when advising young photographers. And honestly, I don’t think that traditional route is a bad way to go. Shooting every day for publication on tight deadlines and getting immediate feedback can be a very good way to go.

    And honestly, except for references to individuals jumping all that, I’m not talking about you, Panos. I honestly don’t know what your technical skills are in relation to your overall skill. My guess is that they are very good and that for the most part your choices are aesthetic and/or philosophical. Whatever the case may be, I’ll bet real money they improve significantly if you continue working in big time photojournalism.

  • In other words all i’m saying, comes down to this…:
    it’s not “master photography” ( i could care less )..
    It’s “master your OWN photography”.. and this is not happening by “breaking” rules..its by inventing..

  • Michael.. i do agree again with what you write…
    believe me..i never “compared” myself with any of the classics..i’m not intentionally breaking the/any rules…All im trying to do is find my voice,,..trust me i know how to drop a photo in photoshop and click Auto/color/exposure/ correct…i know the rule of thirds.. im able to shoot a decent wedding…i know what auto focus means…so does Vicky so does Bob…
    I’m just trying to find my own voice..thats all…
    (man im so tired over explaining myself-it almost seems that i have to apologize here for shooting the way i do…exhausted)

  • And honestly, except for references to individuals jumping all that, I’m not talking about you, Panos.
    —————————————————————————–
    thank u Michael… much respect back..

  • I see we’re typing at the same time. Not surprised I guessed right. Hope I’m not perceived as being any way dogmatic or believing that there is a “right way.” Mostly I’m just responding when I think someone else has made some kind of restrictive argument like that. I’ve been supportive of alternative type photographers when they are attacked. I’m supportive of what is considered traditional excellence when it is attacked. I don’t think I’ve ever been negatively critical of anyone’s chosen style here. Ends, yes. Means, no.

  • musicians start out with imitation.. dylan.. lennon.. oasis.. blahblah..
    they imitate till they can play their heros music backwards – theory cannot help but ease it´s way in and then they outgrow their heros.. learn from before, develop upon it.

    i think most of us are self taught photographers – as musicians above and mentioned more are self taught.. starts with a passion and motivation to learn.

    it is not being ignorant of theory which produces edgy material – it is idiosyncratic technique and motivation.. subject and lifestyle..
    theory has the capacity to build upon that, whereas a lack of theory can eventually restrict creativity..

    music or photography.. painting or whatever – we cannot help but learn some theory – from our own practice if not from books ..

  • man im so tired over explaining myself-it almost seems that i have to apologize here for shooting the way i do…exhausted

    I can imagine. Don’t let it get you down, though. The positive feedback you get from the top pros far outweighs the negative stuff. Overall, it seems you’ve handled it very well.

  • music or photography.. painting or whatever – we cannot help but learn some theory – from our own practice if not from books ..
    ——————————
    DavidB…yes i completely agree…also with john..practice, practice, practice and study the masters…study, study , study… and then authorship…not with disrespect..not with “breaking”..but by building..

    Michael…:) thanks

  • emcd?

    “What does it take to become a *better* photographer after a certain point?”

    Good question. What does it take to become a better person, a better parent,spouse,musician,?

    In all cases, certainly hard work I suspect.

    After reaching a particular plateau in both our skill level, and our success level, it can be easy to just coast. A musician can reach a certain level of competence after about ten years, then will plateau, it takes a huge amount of effort to push it just that little bit farther. Most don’t, and just carry on. Same goes for Olympic athletes where the difference between medal performances and also ran is measured in fractions of a second. Is it the same for photographers? I’m not sure. It ain’t really a contest. I guess it depends on wether or not you are happy with where you are now. Try or not, we all evolve one way or another.

    I think we also need to think very hard on how we want to define “better”. Is better more famous, richer, more fulfilled, more effective in making change? What are you looking for? What is it that you feel you lack now?

    Thanks for posing this question. I need to think more about this.

  • panos – then don´t explain yourself :ø)

    one way or another we all get talked about – mostly in the third person.

    so don´t get tired – get indifferent.

  • anyone who believes they have found a short cut to a style or a secret way ¨in¨ is being less than honest with themselves.

    at the end of the day – who cares what whoever produces? so long as it fulfills the need in them – there is someone out there who will enjoy it.

    best to never smirk sideways at the mccurries or the balons alike..

    they say that what you laugh at, you become..
    d

  • mccurrys, apologies :)
    he is inedible.

  • Inedible…..:)))
    laughing…

  • his shirts are astonishingly crisp though

  • crisp? u should see Nachtwey’s..( u know…the guy im the “Same” with..:)

  • sorry…”same as”.. i meant…

  • Did other Burnians see the ABC Arts video of our very own Glenn Campbell in “Remembering the Bombing of Darwin”? It is excellent. Bravo to Glenn…

    http://www.abc.net.au/arts/stories/s2818198.htm

    Patricia

  • http://www.abc.net.au/arts/stories/s2818198.htm

    wowwwwww…patricia thanks..
    RIGHT ON GLENN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Glenn ??????

  • a civilian-mass audience

    LOVE you …VIVA GLENNNNNNNNNNNNN

    BURNIANS …take your time to listen to your hearts…
    You will learn something important…

    My heart says …it’s time for a Philosophical break …
    a silent one :)))

    Thanks our PATRICIA…waiting to see your “California vision”…

  • Panos…

    Dude, don’t let me or anyone get to you… take ALL comments with a grain of salt…

    “…
    If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
    But make allowance for their doubting too;

    if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
    If all men count with you, but none too much;
    …”

    Kipling

  • a civilian-mass audience

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCFXGanTx4A&feature=related
    Melina Mercouri – Ta pedia tou Pirea

    DANCE with me …

  • a civilian-mass audience

    VIVA THODORI …sorry I missed your name day…cake on you :)))

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Welcome back …MR.HARVEY …what can I say … what a journey :)))

    “When you set out on your journey to Ithaca,
    pray that the road is long,
    full of adventure, full of knowledge.”

    Constantine Peter Cavafy

  • Thodoris..:) agreed….

    ALL…
    i need to say a BIG THANK YOU to a GREAT SOUL…
    This morning i received a generous Donation (that means money )
    from an amazing Artist…
    An artist that i also admire…
    Reason for the donation? My latest essay… Reason for the fund: to keep me working
    harder and do the photography i need to do..
    All that in a country thats is close to bankruptcy …high unemployment…
    Again..im speechless… i want to say once again:
    thank you
    thank you
    thank you…for the good “energy”..
    I’m amazed… thank you BURN..without BURN i wouldnt have the exposure for that..
    i wouldnt be able to be published or “seen”…
    i would have been lost, disappeared …
    Again, speechless.. i dont know what else to say except from THANK YOU..
    onle last thing…to all crazy artists out there that doubt themselves…
    keep doing what u r doing…
    as long as it comes from your heart..
    It will pay off..
    More people are watching…more than you think..
    and thats a good thing…actually thats a great thing..
    THANK U …ALL..

  • Lend us a tenner then :)

  • cmon…John…u r a rich guy… :)

  • PANOS
    aren’t you the lucky one :)
    ***

  • wendy…:)
    big hug..i dont see any luck…really..i worked hard…still working..
    still homeless..still couchsurfing…and i love it..
    the donation is good enough to keep me homeless for couple more months..to do the “ugly” photos i like doing…(like reality is any better anyways..grinning..)

  • Gordon,

    that’s why I put “better” as *better* – because I mean something closer to “more in line and resonance with my heart and mind and experience and purpose, for the good of others if that is possible while also being the truest reflection of my Self with the least interference of the BS that creates the mindstuff that dilutes the former, while still echoing what I know in my mind and being…” But that was kind of long :) so I just wrote *better*.

    I am working on editing today and I had this strange moment when looking through my photos – which essentially was “These are my photos” sounds ridiculous i know but there was a certain enlightenment in that, a clarifying of what it is that I have to say. Has to do with the difficulty of seeing the forest thru the trees…

  • “…they want to believe that they were rebels born with a guitar strapped to them and that they picked up their axe on day one, were instantly fantastic, and just spent their formative years chasing booze and hookers…”

    can I sign up for this or has the expiration date come and gone?

  • a civilian-mass audience

    FOR THE GREAT SOUL
    “To give without any reward, or any notice, has a special quality of its own.”

    Anne Morrow Lindbergh (American writer and aviation pioneer, 1906-2001)

  • !!

    powerHouse is going to Random House. More precisely, the pH back end—warehouse services and sales representation to the book and specialty trades—will be unified for the first time under the awesome forces belonging to the last and greatest storied pantheon of conglomerate trade publishing on the planet. What does that mean? We might be doing more trade-like items—might—but more likely, we will be teaching our corporate compatriots how to hand-sell and hand-promote compelling visual books like ours, and in turn learn from them how to best position and leverage these beautiful books’ publication for the widest possible exposure to trade, academic, non-trade, and niche markets in ways we may never have known possible.

  • hey y’all…

    not time to join in, but just wanted to share with you an interview with justin :))))…those who don’t remember, justin’s series for his exhibition and book, “East Anglians” was published on Burn.. (http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2009/09/justin-partyka-the-east-anglians/)

    Here is the new interview with Justin in Albion Magazine…

    enjoy the interview :)))

    http://www.zyworld.com/albionmagazineonline/photography_justin_partyka_interview.htm

    cheers
    running
    bob

  • ok, i’ll try again…my comment ended up in Spam…i guess ’cause i put 2 links…

    so, here is an interview with Justin Partyka in Albion Magazine…as you might remember, Justin’s series of rhis exhibition and book, The East Anglians, was published on Burn…have a look through the archives

    enjoy the interview…:))

    http://www.zyworld.com/albionmagazineonline/photography_justin_partyka_interview.htm

    gotta fly, literally..

    cheers
    bob

  • hey…my posts keep going into spam….

    im trying to post a link to an interiew with Justin Partyka in Albion Magazine…

    anton, they’ve disappeared ;)))…so, can you ressurect them for the readers…

    enjoy the interview..

    hugs
    bob

  • Too many have come to his site as wanna be’s, it doesn’t work out and they leave with a bitter taste in their mouths …………. others want to make rules so they are on the top perch.
    Panos struts his stuff and a heap of you guys just can’t handle it visually let alone conceptually, your loss there. What happens ……. there a rush to the security door of yesterday and the that’s not fair game.

    ………… and then we get this gem, maybe he is still mastering the ox and cart as a premise to driving a car
    “No, I think the great majority of people wanting to be serious photographers would do well to concentrate on mastering the traditional skills, learning to make beautiful photographs, and then doing whatever the hell they want with those skills.”

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Mysterious Donors with BURNING hearts, JUSTIN, GLENN,EMCD, OURPATRICIA,JOHN,PANOS, SEAN…
    BOBB,CHARLIE,MIMI…and ALL the other BURNIANS that I haven’t heard of your achievements…

    BRAVO,BRAVO,BRAVO…and back to work …cause The Sky is not the Limit…

    P.S KATHLEEN FONSECA, KATIE,STREET FIGHTER, SWORD TONGUE…tick tack…miss you.
    MYGRACIE…
    JIM POWERS…
    HERVE…
    HAIK…
    LASSAL……………………….
    if you are ok…just send me a silent…whenever you have time…

    LOVE YOU ALL…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    IAN…thank you

    IMANTS… do I see color …or am I getting paranoid ???

    dance

  • a civilian-mass audience

    AKAKY
    DON’T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE FRENCH I TOOK:

    I LOVE your blog…not for my English…BUT I try:)))

  • For those interested in this sort of thing…

    DON’T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE FRENCH I TOOK:

    I don’t know a lot about a lot of things. The finer points of Christian theology are a mystery to me, as are higher mathematics, medium mathematics, and most lower mathematics as well. When I was a boy I could bisect an angle with the greatest of ease; this was my one and only mathematical accomplishment throughout elementary and secondary school and I was very proud of my talent; but in the years since I left school no one has asked me to bisect an angle, not even a little one, and so my bisecting skills have vanished from want of practice. Even without mathematics in its various permutations, there are still plenty of things that I do not understand nowadays. For example, you may not have heard about this—in fact, there’s no reason why you should have heard about it, which is why I’m telling you about it now—but this week has been a very good week for the forces of law and order here in our happy little burg. Yes, the citizenry can nestle safe in their beds tonight, happy in the knowledge that our local gendarmerie, a stout-hearted body of men admired by all here, despite their proclivity for suing the mayor, the chief of police, and the city council for reasons best known to themselves, have finally, after a months long investigation, smashed a large and vicious criminal gang trafficking in stolen pound cakes. We, the law abiding denizens of our happy little burg, can only congratulate our men in blue for their stalwart efforts to protect us from the depredations of local socioeconomically deprived pound cake pilferers and we hope that the police and the district attorney’s office will 1.) Prosecute these malefactors to the fullest extent of the law and send them to prison for a very long time, 2.) Don’t beat the crap out of the suspects just for the fun of clobbering the felonious, a practice prevalent in this neck of the woods, even if various other authorities frown on the practice, and 3.) Don’t do something incredibly stupid like eating the evidence, which is exactly the sort of dumbass thing you’d expect those clowns to do if you gave them half a chance.

    Pound cake thievery is one of the few persistent social problems hereabouts, the others being the illegal production of chocolate bundt cakes and the further depredations of the Pisser, a local desperado known for writing obscene messages about the Mayor on the sidewalk in front of City Hall with the eponymous bodily fluid as his ink of choice. In any case, scarcely a day goes by here without some good citizen calling police headquarters to complain that someone has broken into their homes and made off with their pound cakes. As far as I can tell, we are the only municipality in the area with this problem. In the slough of urban despond immediately across the river from us, for instance, the majority of the antisocial element concentrates on such remunerative crimes as selling drugs and armed robbery, and ignore baked goods entirely. Why thieves would choose to target pound cakes is a mystery to me and to everyone else in town, but the citizenry has clearly taken all they intend to endure: while out walking a few weeks ago I saw a woman catch one of the thieves red-handed; the battle between the two of them had spilled out into the street, with the woman quickly gaining the upper hand; when the police finally arrived she had the young punk down on the ground and was busy trying to choke him to death with a chafing dish. But while I approve of the citizenry beating these young thugs to within an inch of their lives with whatever crockery is at hand, I still don’t understand why anyone would want to steal pound cakes for a living in the first place. I just don’t get it. Maybe I’m slow.

    I see a lot of odd things when I am out walking, some of which I don’t understand at all. Today, for example, I saw the UPS man delivering parcels to our local post office. At first, I gave the matter no thought; you see UPS and FedEx delivery people every day of the week on every street from one end of this our Great Republic to the other; it is, after all, a free country, or so people keep telling me, and UPS and FedEx can deliver stuff to anyone willing to pay them to have stuff delivered. And then something besides a nun or my mother struck me: the United States Postal Service uses UPS. Now, if I remember this correctly, the USPS is in the business of delivering stuff. UPS and FedEx are also in the business of delivering stuff. What’s more, the USPS is a semi-governmental stuff delivering organization, which is a roundabout way of saying that the USPS loses money hand over fist every year delivering stuff and that the taxpayers then have to make up the shortfall on the Postal Service’s bottom line (NOTE to the interested: the Confederate Post Office was the only Post Office in American history to make money. Really, it was; you can look it up). UPS and FedEx, on the other hand, are not semi-governmental stuff delivering organizations and therefore do not require me to make up their annual financial shortfalls, assuming they have annual financial shortfalls. But when you are a semi-governmental stuff delivering organization, you get to do things like hire your competition to deliver your stuff for you. For the casual observer, having a semi-governmental organization that delivers stuff for a living use its competition in the stuff delivering business to deliver its stuff leads ineluctably, a word I just saw in the Reader’s Digest and am now using here for the first time, to the question of why not have UPS and FedEx deliver everyone’s stuff and cut out the USPS entirely? This makes sense to a lot of people, none of whom have a government job. If they did, they would know better than to think such foolish thoughts.

    And then there are the vegan bicycles for Haiti. I must admit that the question of sending bicycles, whether they be vegan, omnivorous, or carnivorous, to a disaster zone is one that had never occurred to me before, although I am sure there must be some connection between the two; there is scarcely a wall or a telephone pole anywhere within the city limits not covered with handbills announcing that vegan bicycles are raising money for Haiti. I’ve read most of these handbills and I still have no damn clue what a vegan bicycle might be. I know who vegans are, of course; in the main, vegans are gastronomic snobs who believe that their refusal to consume any sort of animal product whatsoever bestows upon them a moral stature vastly superior to the boorish omnivorous masses who enjoy stuffing their pie holes with a Big Mac, French fries, and a large Coke every now and again. I still, however, do not grasp the connection such odd eating habits might have with Haitian relief or even with bicycles, for that matter. Bicycles have always seemed somewhat non-ideological to me, unlike, for example, roller skates and pogo sticks, both of which have a whiff of the demagogic about them, but then, I haven’t ridden a bike in almost thirty years and anything can happen in that amount of time. So, I still don’t understand what’s going on, but there’s nothing new about that, unfortunately. I am sure the Haitians will be happy to have the money, or the bicycles, no matter what their make or eating habits might be. Maybe the vegan bicycles could have a bake sale; it’s not like they have to worry about the pound cake pirates anymore; and they could have UPS or FedEx deliver the proceeds, along with whatever other stuff the USPS doesn’t want to deliver.

  • Today I received an email notice from powerHouse with the news that Erica has already shared. It doesn’t take an Einstein to figure out that their being bought by Random House is evidence of economic struggles that made remaining an independent book publisher untenable. I hope Random House will allow powerHouse to stay true to their longterm vision and commitment to the visual arts. But change is inevitable.

    For those of us who have photo projects we’re trying to get published by respected book publishers, the chances are getting slimmer by the day. Blurb might be the only way to go. Actually, my most recent edition of “Falling Into Place” in paperback looks quite good indeed. I just wish they’d give better bulk discounts.

    Patricia

  • a civilian-mass audience

    IMANTS…you are fast and furious …

    VIVA AUSSIES !!!

  • PANOS

    That’s great news about the surprise funding that has come your way. You are the real deal and I’m happy to see that is being recognized, not just in words but in actions. I know you’ll use it well.

    CIVI

    Thanks for asking about my California project. To be honest I’m going cross-eyed from all the different edits I’ve been trying. Now I think I’ll focus on the audio and see if that can help clarify which images need to be seen. I keep telling myself this is not about showing off my skills (such as they are) as a photographer but all about saying what needs to be said to help normalize gay marriage in people’s minds. It’s hard to give up some of my “best” images but if they don’t further the story, out they go. As we’ve said before, editing isn’t for wimps!

    Patricia

  • and then we get this gem, maybe he is still mastering the ox and cart as a premise to driving a car

    Nah, I think he was more saying it’s a good idea for most people to learn how to drive a car before driving a car real fast on challenging roads. Maybe that doesn’t apply to you? Cool. You’re not most people. Not everybody is. But the point remains.

    And again, in the great majority of that discussion I was not talking about Panos, and never in any kind of derogatory manner. Just generalities that generally don’t apply to him, but relate to points others brought up.

    But I do find it a bit strange that people put down the traditional notions of excellence on this particular site. You know that funny story where the famous photographer David Alan Harvey was wading backwards out into the surf while photographing a religious rite at sunset on the beach in Rio and someone snatched his assistant’s flash while she was on the beach providing some fill light? Think a bit about that scene. Colorful people, beautiful light, high degree of technical sophistication… Whaddayawannabet we eventually see some incredibly beautiful, technically excellent photos from Rio? Is there really something wrong with that? And is there really something wrong with anyone following a similar path to get there? I’d say no, nothing wrong with that. In fact, it’s still probably the best roadmap to success as a photographer. Artistic, commercial, personal, just about any kind of success. Not the only way to get there, no. But tried and true.

  • btw, I’m not in any way setting myself up as the champion of tradition or anything like that. I just bristle when people get restrictive about what’s allowable in art. And I hate to talk about things you haven’t seen, but I’m not exactly the most traditional person around. One of the least, actually, as far as I can tell.

  • So you have taken upon yourself to be the spoken voice of most people…………..
    Few here begrudge the traditional way, it is just that there is a heap that are not working that way.There is nothing wrong with working in the traditional way but spare us the compulsory bit that that is the initial path to things photographic. Work, start any way you want, David works his way and I doubt if he really likes being pigeon holed with this and that way of doing things. Ask him and I am sure that he will answer that his approach is quite diverse.
    Remember that many have started from digital and never shot a roll of film nor do they intend to. To them tradition starts elsewhere, maybe only as long ago as 5 years which may seem too contemporary to you.

  • Bucharest: Exploring Your Vision
    Join us for an intensive street photography workshop in Bucharest, Romania 6 –13 June 2010, one of Europe’s least known capitals.
    The city is a beguiling place which still suffers from outdated Communist-era stereotypes. Well off the tourist track, there is a raw energy to Bucharest that has to be experienced to be believed. Globalization has yet to run its course here and a curious blend of old and new Europe exists side by side.
    Bucharest suffered the worst of the former Eastern Bloc Communist regimes under dictator Nicolae Ceausescu. By 1989, Romania was a police state akin to North Korea with the feared Securitate (secret police) waging a war of psychological oppression against ordinary Romanians. Bucharest and its citizens emerged from Communism dramtically changed. The once elegant city had been stripped of its beauty and its citizens severely traumatized. But two decades since Ceausescu’s overthrow, Bucharest is finally poised for revitalization. Although economic progress was slow in the 1990s, the last five years have seen nothing less than astounding change as banks began to make loans and the entire population went on a shopping spree for the first time. Today, the citiy is full of sharp contrasts. While the scars of Ceausescu are still visible, the city is forging a new identity. Some of the trendiest fashions and nightlife outside Moscow exist against a backdrop of spectacular urban decay and it remains to be seen what will become of the city known between The World Wars as “The Paris of the East”.
    Since 2000, Davin has been transfixed by Romania. Immediately after finishing college he even went and lived for a year with peasants in a village in the Carpathian mountains lost somewhere in the 18th century. In 2007 Davin decided to base himself from Bucharest and has since fallen under its dark spell. In 2010 Aga joined him.
    This is the first photo workshop of its kind ever to be held in Bucharest.
    The pair will be working closely with workshop participants and providing daily critiques and group discussions. The goal of this workshop is to perfect one’s street shooting skills and the art of spontaneous photography by exploring Bucharest as well as how to edit — select and sequence your photographs — intuitively. It’s a workshop open to amateurs and professionals alike.
    We will shoot during the day and edit in the evenings. Through group as well as one on one discussions of the best work, participants will see their picture making skills improve each day. Technical, theoretical and aesthetic issues will be discussed as attendees work towards honing their individual visions.
    The workshop will begin with individual portfolio reviews and an expert tour of the historic center as well as lectures about Bucharest and its architecture by Romanian historian Valentin Mandache. Romanian reportage photographers will also join us, presenting and discussing their work and their own experiences of Bucharest. Davin and Aga will show their own work as well the work of classic masters.
    The workshop is limited to 12 students.
    WORKSHOP LOCATION: Café Verona at Carturesti
    WORKSHOP FEE: €300.
    Accommodation, transportation, meals, and other expenses are not included.
    ACCOMMODATION: €15/night La Historia youth hostelHotel suggestions are available upon request.
    REGISTRATION: The workshop is open to any professional or committed amateur who has knowledge of digital cameras and editing software. Participants must come with their own camera, laptop and editing software. All ages welcome!
    PAYMENT: A non-refundable deposit of €100 is payable on confirmation of a place. The balance is due 4 weeks before the commencement of the workshop.
    *Please check if you need a visa
    Helpful links:
    Bucharest In Your Pocket
    Bucharest Life

    Bios:
    Aga and Davin are freelance photographers based between Katowice, Poland and Bucharest, Romania.
    Aga studied in the US with National Geographic photographer Gerd Ludwig and National Geographic photo editor David Griffin. Later, she studied with photographers Stanley Greene, Alex Majoli and Lorenzo Castore At Masterclass Focus on Monferrato in Tuscany.
    Davin worked at National Geographic photographer Steve McCurry’s studio in New York and studied with photographers Eugene Richards, Ken Light, Constantine Manos, George Tice and Paul Lowe. In 2006 he completed an MA in documentary photography at The London College of Communication
    Aga has worked for Polish newspapers and magazines and her photographs have been published worldwide (Poland, Turkey, Germany, China, USA). She has won numerous awards including one from the Office for the City of Katowice, Poland, Newsweek Poland and National Geographic Magazine.
    Davin has completed assignments for such publications as The International Herald Tribune, The Chronicle of Higher Education, Courrier Japon, Bloomberg News. His work has appeared in The New York Times and Der Spiegel and the book This Day of Change, among others. The recipient of the 2009 Portfolio Award at The Phodar Photography Biennial in Bulgaria, Davin has also won an honorable mention in Jen Bekman´s Hey! Hot Shot Contest in both 2008 and 2009. He has worked for various NGOs such as Leslie Hawke’s Ovidiu Rom in Bucharest and The International Research & Exchanges Board (IREX).

    Check out Davin’s archive on Bucharest here.
    Please contact us with any questions:mail: luczakowskaellicson@gmail.com phone: +40 754 928 306

  • Nope, haven’t taken myself up to be the spoken voice for anything. Nothing compulsory in any way. But the point does remain that if one wants to work as a photojournalist, it’s a good idea to have the skills people are hiring and paying for. Argue that, if you like.

    Though to be fair, I’ve been sloppy and used photographer and photojournalist interchangeably when I only mean to refer to photojournalism. That doesn’t apply to any of your stuff that I’ve seen or to the work of quite a few others published here. Nothing against your work or that of those others, it’s just not what I’m referring to.

    So true, if I’ve been misunderstood on that level, the fault is mine. To be clear: in the context of this conversation, by “photographer” I mean “photojournalist.” If you don’t think most people entering the field of photojournalism should learn the traditional skills, I’m not stopping you from expressing that opinion. Though you might want to suggest they learn to troubleshoot computers or something like that as well since they most likely will never be working photojournalists without those skills.

  • “To be clear: in the context of this conversation, by “photographer” I mean “photojournalist.””
    Not buying the change of tune that you are so adept at…………..

    …….. have a chat to the likes of Tim Page, maybe Flynn is a bit hard as he is dead. They got out there and did, made a few mistakes in their eyes and went on with it. What’s more there are many like that, even plumbers

  • a really genius friend of mine said:
    “…It is easier to hide behind the past then take a punt on the future……………..they are waiting for the golden touch…”
    “…there is a string of gold diggers…”

    SING WITH ME

    “…Someone’s got it in for me, they’re planting stories in the press
    Whoever it is I wish they’d cut it out quick but when they will I can only guess
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
    I can’t help it if I’m lucky.

    People see me all the time and they just can’t remember how to act
    Their minds are filled with big ideas, images and distorted facts
    Even you yesterday you had to ask me where it was at
    I couldn’t believe after all these years you didn’t know even me better than that
    Sweet lady.

    —–Idiot wind——-
    ——– blowing every time your move your mouth—

    Blowing down the backroads heading south
    Idiot wind blowing every time you move your teeth
    You’re an idiot babe
    It’s a wonder that you still know how to breathe

    I ran into the fortune-teller who said beware of lightning that might strike
    I haven’t known peace and quit for so long I can’t remember what it’s like
    There’s a lone soldier on the cross smoke pouring out of a boxcar door
    You didn’t know it you didn’t think it could be done in the final end he won the wars
    After losing every battle.

    I woke up on the roadside daydreaming about the way things sometimes are
    Visions of your chestnut mare shoot through my head and are making me see stars
    You hurt the ones that I love best and cover up the truth with lies
    One day you’ll be in the ditch, flies buzzing around your eyes
    Blood on your saddle.

    ——–Idiot wind——–

    blowing through the flowers on your tomb
    Blowing through the curtains in your room

    ——–Idiot wind blowing every time you move your teeth——–

    You’re an idiot babe

    It’s a wonder that you still know how to breathe.

    It was gravity which pulled us down and destiny which broke us apart
    You tamed the lion in my cage but it just wasn’t enough to change my heart
    Now everything’s a little upside down, as a matter of fact the wheels have stopped
    What’s good is bad what’s bad is good you’ll find out when you reach the top
    You’re on the bottom.I noticed at the ceremony, your corrupt ways had finally made you blind
    I can’t remember your face anymore, your mouth has changed your eyes don’t look
    into mine
    The priest wore black on the seventh day and sat stone faced while the
    building burned
    I waited for you on the running boards, near the cypress trees while the
    springtime turned
    Slowly into autumn….”

    Idiot wind

    blowing like a circle around my skull
    From the Grand Coulee Dam to Capitol
    Idiot wind blowing every time you move you teeth

    You’re an idiot babe.

    It’s a wonder that you still know how to breathe.

    I can’t feel you anymore, I can’t even touch the books you’ve read
    Every time I crawl past your door, I been wishing I was somebody else instead
    Down the highway down the tracks down the road to ecstasy
    I followed you beneath the stars hounded by your memory
    And all you raging glory.

    I been double-crossed now for the very last time and now I’m finally free
    I kissed goodbye the howling beast on the borderline which separated you from me
    You’ll never know the hurt I suffered not the pain I raise above
    And I’ll never know the same about you your holiness or your kind of love
    And it makes me feel so sorry.

    Idiot wind blowing through the buttons of our coats
    Blowing through the letters that we wrote
    Idiot wind blowing through the dust upon our shelves

    We’re idiots babe

    It’s a wonder we can even feed ourselves.
    ..”

  • This machine kills facists under milk wood…genesis of above.

    ….and all on three chords, until just yesterday.

  • Panos; Congrats on the helping hand you’ve received. Life is sweet…..

  • John..;)
    biggest hug
    good night y’all…
    3:20 am here..
    need to crash…
    Carmen didnt do me right tonight..
    ohh well… shit happens…
    big hug

  • …the likes of Tim Page, maybe Flynn…

    I ran into the fortune-teller who said beware of lightning that might strike

    Dispatches and Blood on the Tracks. Stuff of my dreams. No need to change the tune. When I start tap dancing, that’ll close the sale. You’ll see.

  • A friend of mine, who lives in NYC, has taught me so much about art in the last few years. One of the biggest and most important things about viewing other people’s art is to allow that art to speak to you. Not to walk up to it and dismiss it as unworthy, or pick it to death with technical details, or allow your own prejudices to judge the piece or compare it to how someone else does the work. A person’s art–photography, writing, painting, sculpture or sand castles–resonates with the bits and pieces of the artist’s life. It speaks who that person is, how they feel, how they see, what they see that is different than the way you look at life. If we all produce art in the same technically correct way as the next guy how do we stand out? How boring it would be if we only had one style of art to look at.

    There have been essays on this site that totally turn me off and I remember one time rashly commenting “UGH” on one. I regret that response; because although the subject matter and the way it was shot totally turned me off it was a way of looking through the photographer’s eyes and seeing what that artist sees. I missed an opportunity to learn more. That is what we need to see is what the piece has to teach us.

    That said, I would never purchase let alone hang the work that I said UGH about but it did have a message and I missed out because I did not let it tell me the photographer’s story he was trying to share.

    Being a part of a juried show that has just opened, I took the opportunity to go and view each and every piece and to look at it with an eye that held no judgment. Not saying I would purchase many of the pieces and hang them in my home but I have an appreciation for each piece that is in that show. Each piece has something to say and our responsibility as artists and viewers of other artists’ work is to try and hear that message.

    Burn has been a huge part in helping me to understand what art is all about and what it has to offer me and our society in general. This past year it feels like I have taken a huge leap in my growth as a photographer and an artist. When we allow that creative spirit to come out, even if it isn’t technically correct, it opens the door to unknown pockets of creativity that you never even knew you had in you.

  • Aitken “Now this is documentary photography”

    Thanks for the link.

    I love this stuff, shades of my youth.

    From ’69 to ’72 I studied photography at the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology, one of the two places in Canada that taught photography at the time. One of my instructors was a man called Jim Kimble, an old time commercial/industrial photographer who’s portfolio looked much like the stuff on the link. From him, we learned how to do such photographs with 4×5 view cameras,and with up to four Graflex flash-guns wired together to fire #5 flashbulbs simultaneously. Exposure determined by guide numbers. No flash meters then, no polaroid, no bracketing, one shot.

    For you younger folks out there, a flash bulb is a little light bulb that gives a very bright flash of light, once, and is then discarded. A guide number, is a number that you would use to calculate exposure from a flash bulb, and later on, an electronic flash. Now-a-days, flash exposure is automatic, but not then. If your flash/film combination had a guide number of 100, for example, you divided your flash to subject distance into the guide number, and the resulting number was your f-stop. So if you were ten feet away in this example, ten divided into 100 is 10, your closest f-stop is f11, and you would set your aperture to f11 to obtain the correct exposure. You would use this knowledge to calculate flash ratios when using multiple flashes.

  • So is Civi Panos? If he is he is really going a long way to keep the illusion going? Civi…who are you?

  • Civi Panos? She’s a hell of a lot prettier than Panos.

  • Bucharest: Exploring Your Vision

    Join us for an intensive street photography workshop in Bucharest, Romania 6 –13 June 2010, one of Europe’s least known capitals.

    The city is a beguiling place which still suffers from outdated Communist-era stereotypes. Well off the tourist track, there is a raw energy to Bucharest that has to be experienced to be believed.
    Globalization has yet to run its course here and a curious blend of old and new Europe exists side by side.

    Bucharest suffered the worst of the former Eastern Bloc Communist regimes under dictator Nicolae Ceausescu. By 1989, Romania was a police state akin to North Korea with the feared Securitate (secret police) waging a war of psychological oppression against ordinary Romanians. Bucharest and its citizens emerged from Communism dramtically changed. The once elegant city had been stripped of its beauty and its citizens severely traumatized. But two decades since Ceausescu’s overthrow, Bucharest is finally poised for revitalization. Although economic progress was slow in the 1990s, the last five years have seen nothing less than astounding change as banks began to make loans and the entire population went on a shopping spree for the first time. Today, the citiy is full of sharp contrasts. While the scars of Ceausescu are still visible, the city is forging a new identity. Some of the trendiest fashions and nightlife outside Moscow exist against a backdrop of spectacular urban decay and it remains to be seen what will become of the city known between The World Wars as “The Paris of the East”.

    Since 2000, Davin has been transfixed by Romania. Immediately after finishing college he even went and lived for a year with peasants in a village in the Carpathian mountains lost somewhere in the 18th century. In 2007 Davin decided to base himself from Bucharest and has since fallen under its dark spell. In 2010 Aga joined him.

    This is the first photo workshop of its kind ever to be held in Bucharest.

    The pair will be working closely with workshop participants and providing daily critiques and group discussions. The goal of this workshop is to perfect one’s street shooting skills and the art of spontaneous photography by exploring Bucharest as well as how to edit — select and sequence your photographs — intuitively. It’s a workshop open to amateurs and professionals alike.

    We will shoot during the day and edit in the evenings. Through group as well as one on one discussions of the best work, participants will see their picture making skills improve each day. Technical, theoretical and aesthetic issues will be discussed as attendees work towards honing their individual visions.

    The workshop will begin with individual portfolio reviews and an expert tour of the historic center as well as lectures about Bucharest and its architecture by Romanian historian Valentin Mandache. Romanian reportage photographers will also join us, presenting and discussing their work and their own experiences of Bucharest. Davin and Aga will show their own work as well as the work of classic masters.

    The workshop is limited to 12 students.

    WORKSHOP LOCATION: Café Verona at Carturesti

    WORKSHOP FEE: €300.

    Accommodation, transportation, meals, and other expenses are not included.

    ACCOMMODATION: €15/night La Historia youth hostel
    Hotel suggestions are available upon request.

    REGISTRATION: The workshop is open to any professional or committed amateur who has knowledge of digital cameras and editing software. Participants must come with their own camera, laptop and editing software. All ages welcome!

    PAYMENT: A non-refundable deposit of €100 is payable on confirmation of a place. The balance is due 4 weeks before the commencement of the workshop.

    *Please check if you need a visa

    Helpful links:

    Bucharest In Your Pocket

    Bucharest Life

    Bios:

    Aga and Davin are freelance photographers based between Katowice, Poland and Bucharest, Romania.

    Aga studied in the US with National Geographic photographer Gerd Ludwig and National Geographic photo editor David Griffin. Later, she studied with photographers Stanley Greene, Alex Majoli and Lorenzo Castore At Masterclass Focus on Monferrato in Tuscany.

    Davin worked at National Geographic photographer Steve McCurry’s studio in New York and studied with photographers Eugene Richards, Ken Light, Constantine Manos, George Tice and Paul Lowe. In 2006 he completed an MA in documentary photography at The London College of Communication.

    Aga has worked for Polish newspapers and magazines and her photographs have been published worldwide (Poland, Turkey, Germany, China, USA). She has won numerous awards including one from the Office for the City of Katowice, Poland, Newsweek Poland and National Geographic Magazine.

    Davin has completed assignments for such publications as The International Herald Tribune, The Chronicle of Higher Education, Courrier Japon, Bloomberg News. His work has appeared in The New York Times and Der Spiegel and the book This Day of Change, among others. The recipient of the 2009 Portfolio Award at The Phodar Photography Biennial in Bulgaria, Davin has also won an honorable mention in Jen Bekman´s Hey! Hot Shot Contest in both 2008 and 2009. He has worked for various NGOs such as Leslie Hawke’s Ovidiu Rom in Bucharest and The International Research & Exchanges Board (IREX).

    Check out Davin’s archive on Bucharest here.

    Please contact us with any questions:
    mail: luczakowskaellicson@gmail.com
    phone:
    +40 754 928 306

  • Bucharest, Romania Street Photography Workshop June 2010

    Bucharest: Exploring Your Vision

    Join us for an intensive street photography workshop in Bucharest, Romania 6 –13 June 2010, one of Europe’s least known capitals.

    The city is a beguiling place which still suffers from outdated Communist-era stereotypes. Well off the tourist track, there is a raw energy to Bucharest that has to be experienced to be believed.
    Globalization has yet to run its course here and a curious blend of old and new Europe exists side by side.

    Bucharest suffered the worst of the former Eastern Bloc Communist regimes under dictator Nicolae Ceausescu. By 1989, Romania was a police state akin to North Korea with the feared Securitate (secret police) waging a war of psychological oppression against ordinary Romanians. Bucharest and its citizens emerged from Communism dramtically changed. The once elegant city had been stripped of its beauty and its citizens severely traumatized. But two decades since Ceausescu’s overthrow, Bucharest is finally poised for revitalization. Although economic progress was slow in the 1990s, the last five years have seen nothing less than astounding change as banks began to make loans and the entire population went on a shopping spree for the first time. Today, the citiy is full of sharp contrasts. While the scars of Ceausescu are still visible, the city is forging a new identity. Some of the trendiest fashions and nightlife outside Moscow exist against a backdrop of spectacular urban decay and it remains to be seen what will become of the city known between The World Wars as “The Paris of the East”.

    Since 2000, Davin has been transfixed by Romania. Immediately after finishing college he even went and lived for a year with peasants in a village in the Carpathian mountains lost somewhere in the 18th century. In 2007 Davin decided to base himself from Bucharest and has since fallen under its dark spell. In 2010 Aga joined him.

    This is the first photo workshop of its kind ever to be held in Bucharest.

    The pair will be working closely with workshop participants and providing daily critiques and group discussions. The goal of this workshop is to perfect one’s street shooting skills and the art of spontaneous photography by exploring Bucharest as well as how to edit — select and sequence your photographs — intuitively. It’s a workshop open to amateurs and professionals alike.

    We will shoot during the day and edit in the evenings. Through group as well as one on one discussions of the best work, participants will see their picture making skills improve each day. Technical, theoretical and aesthetic issues will be discussed as attendees work towards honing their individual visions.

    The workshop will begin with individual portfolio reviews and an expert tour of the historic center as well as lectures about Bucharest and its architecture by Romanian historian Valentin Mandache. Romanian reportage photographers will also join us, presenting and discussing their work and their own experiences of Bucharest. Davin and Aga will show their own work as well as the work of classic masters.

    The workshop is limited to 12 students.

    WORKSHOP LOCATION: Café Verona at Carturesti

    WORKSHOP FEE: €300.

    Accommodation, transportation, meals, and other expenses are not included.

    ACCOMMODATION: €15/night La Historia youth hostel
    Hotel suggestions are available upon request.

    REGISTRATION: The workshop is open to any professional or committed amateur who has knowledge of digital cameras and editing software. Participants must come with their own camera, laptop and editing software. All ages welcome!

    PAYMENT: A non-refundable deposit of €100 is payable on confirmation of a place. The balance is due 4 weeks before the commencement of the workshop.

    *Please check if you need a visa

    Helpful links:

    Bucharest In Your Pocket

    Bucharest Life

    Bios:

    Aga and Davin are freelance photographers based between Katowice, Poland and Bucharest, Romania.

    Aga studied in the US with National Geographic photographer Gerd Ludwig and National Geographic photo editor David Griffin. Later, she studied with photographers Stanley Greene, Alex Majoli and Lorenzo Castore At Masterclass Focus on Monferrato in Tuscany.

    Davin worked at National Geographic photographer Steve McCurry’s studio in New York and studied with photographers Eugene Richards, Ken Light, Constantine Manos, George Tice and Paul Lowe. In 2006 he completed an MA in documentary photography at The London College of Communication.

    Aga has worked for Polish newspapers and magazines and her photographs have been published worldwide (Poland, Turkey, Germany, China, USA). She has won numerous awards including one from the Office for the City of Katowice, Poland, Newsweek Poland and National Geographic Magazine.

    Davin has completed assignments for such publications as The International Herald Tribune, The Chronicle of Higher Education, Courrier Japon, Bloomberg News. His work has appeared in The New York Times and Der Spiegel and the book This Day of Change, among others. The recipient of the 2009 Portfolio Award at The Phodar Photography Biennial in Bulgaria, Davin has also won an honorable mention in Jen Bekman´s Hey! Hot Shot Contest in both 2008 and 2009. He has worked for various NGOs such as Leslie Hawke’s Ovidiu Rom in Bucharest and The International Research & Exchanges Board (IREX).

    Check out Davin’s archive on Bucharest here.

    Please contact us with any questions:
    mail: luczakowskaellicson@gmail.com
    phone:
    +40 754 928 306

  • Thanks AIKEN..

    I dig how a couple of colour images are stuck in the middle there illustrating the effect that B/W has on my interpretation of an environment. I just love the effect B/W has on me…

  • Erica, “These are my photos” sounds ridiculous i know but there was a certain enlightenment in that, a clarifying of what it is that I have to say” doesn’t sound ridiculous at all.

    Just now, at this stage of my life, am I just starting to have faith in my own vision.

    BTW I went out and picked up my first ever issue of Mother Jones, just to check out your piece. Wow, stuff just looks so much better in print than on these wimpy screens doesn’t it? Congratulations again. As someone who makes portraits for a living, I love clean, honest portraits. Nice stuff.

    Now that article about the Oath Keepers,… scared the shit out of me. There are some crazy ass people out there. That is one depressing magazine I gotta tell you.

  • If we do not understand our past how can we live in the present and dream about a better future.

    One of the lessons that I learned from David is to have an appreciation of the photographers and artists that have come before in order to have a visual reference point and common language. This doesn’t mean that we have to follow tradition or use old out-dated techniques or visual styles, or rules. From my understanding for many artists in different mediums there is an expectation of mastery of technical skills and then let it fly out the window to create something new and wonderful that has never been seen or done before. You have to know the rules in order to break them. I am not sure why this point of view seems to be drowned out on this site? Sounds like artistic relativism. Everything is good in it’s own way and there is no objective measuring stick. Shouldn’t there be honesty, integrity, and authenticity in art and doesn’t that mean understanding and mastering one’s craft? Otherwise who is fooling who?

    There is an excellent discussion on the problems of artistic relativism here :

    Towards a new art

  • Civi Panos? She’s a hell of a lot prettier than Panos.
    ————————————————————–
    laughing
    laughing
    laughing…

    Fred..:) i absolutely 100% agree..

  • Lee..:)
    exactly..its about “feeling” ones work not “dissecting” …

  • Frank, that link doesn’t work for me, 404 error. Sounds interesting.

    Bob, thanks for the links over in the other thread. I’d seen some of your work before, I think you linked to it when the similarly-styled St. Petersberg essay was up, but recently noticed there were no readily available links. I’m looking forward to considering your work in much greater detail. I’m sure you recognized that most of my comments regarding traditional skills were responses to things you wrote. I hope you recognized that it was all with genuine respect. You seem very secure and I didn’t think anything I had to say would wound you and I have no impression that it did. Personally, I like discussing photography, both as a pastime and as a learning opportunity. I rarely take things personally and even more rarely mean anything personal. If my opinions seem a bit slippery at times it’s because I’m constantly modifying them. I have no interest whatsoever in preaching any kind of received wisdom. Although I often write in an authoritative voice, mostly I’m just throwing ideas out there in the hope that someone will make a good enough counter argument to make me modify my opinion. Sometimes I make a fool of myself, but in my way of thinking it would be much more foolish to stay quiet and ignorant. Your writing is often very enlightening and I appreciate it. But me? Basically, I write to learn. If I have something to tell I prefer to tell it in a photograph.

    The Blood on the Tracks and Dispatches references were interesting. Odds are very good I read that book while listening to that music either in college or kicking around Europe after. I find it strange that younger people are into the same things I was a generation ago. My generation rebelled against everything our parents and grandparents new and loved. That seemed the normal way of the world. Now my teenage daughter listens to the Velvet Underground. At Borders I recently saw a mother buy a Ramones CD for her 10-year-old son. She said all the boys his age loved the Ramones. Is that a good thing or should I find it disturbing? I have no idea, but it doesn’t say much for contemporary art and lit.

  • here is the link for Justin’s interview i tried to leave yesterday :))

    enjoy!

    http://www.zyworld.com/albionmagazineonline/photography_justin_partyka_interview.htm

  • back in the loop here by tomorrow…will catch up on everything….stressful ending to Rio…my normal sleep pattern is 4-5 hrs a night…yesterday/night it was 20 hrs straight..on top of my hotel bed in D.C. fully clothed…musta been tired…however, i usually recover fast…hot shower fixes everything…turning in hard drives, one fast meeting, and then drive home this afternoon…talk soonest….

    cheers, david

  • @ Michael WeBster _ I have’nt seen a mention of Tim Page on this forum for a while , but if you are interested in where he’s at right now , go here

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/northern/2010/02/19/an-interview-with-tim-page-photographer-part-one/

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/northern/2010/03/07/interview-with-photojournalist-tim-page-part-two/

    The best profile of a photographer written by a one legged Lawyer and bird fancier that I have ever read.

    ANTON – I hope davin is paying market rates for the 6 column ad he just put up !

  • Hey Uncle –

    “when my baby, when my baby smiles at me, I go to…….?”

  • davin..

    the text colour-background colour combo on yer blog seem difficult to read.

  • glenn – you sober this evening?
    i´m gonna get fried tonight i think..
    now.. of to nursery to pick up the bean.

  • Imants…

    Overreaching praises are ok then, but critiques are despicable, huh?

    By the way, when did you claim dibs on the future of photography? Do you hear voices? Do they tell you that your approach is the next evolutionary step in the development of photography?

    If so, then you should also register the iamschizophrenic.net as well…

    :))

  • David Bowen – 3 sheets again I’m afraid!

  • I agree Frank, Dace makes some good arguments for skills and against relativism. I think he gets a little confused towards the end when he argues that art should represent reality while simultaneously putting down art that is not beautiful, but overall, interesting stuff.

  • davin, really pushing the agenda there :ø9
    good luck with it.

    glenn..
    fantastic stuff.. i just put medicine on my psoriasis.. stuffed full of painkillers and now cracked open a beer..
    yesyes..

  • Yea, meant to add thanks Glenn for the link to the Tim Page interview. Most depressing thing I’ve read in awhile. Gives whole new meaning to the phrase “world of shit.”

  • Frank. Very good link. Worthy of rational debate for sure.

  • OK ALL..FIVE MORE MINUTES..and i’ll post a slideshow…
    today it was the most intense street fights i ever witnessed…
    in the streets of Athens…
    big fat greek mess…
    at one point when the chemicals were getting dropped like crazy…
    i thought i saw zoriah… sorry i meant to say “messiah”…
    (oh btw..who wants to sign in for a greek workshop called Athens on Fire?
    i only charge $8000 euro and u get the Tear gas for FREE…yes free..
    the last day free field trip to Acropolis..
    laughing….
    stay tuned..couple more minutes..

  • Interesting photos Panos. What I have never understood is how protestors rationalize fighting against the government by smashing retailers windows and burning citizens’ cars. It makes me think they are not interested in changing anything they just want to wreak havoc. And innocent people pay the price.

  • well…Lee…they were mostly destroying government property and BANKS….
    from the Retailers stores it was mainly the “expensive” ones like Dolce & Cabana… or the ones that “symbolize” capitalism….like McDonalds etc..they wouldnt really destroy small business…
    same with cars..only expensive euro cars…not fiats or hondas or skodas…
    but..i see what you are saying and i agree with you 100%…One is not necessarily rich once one owns an Audi..
    A Ferrari maybe but definitely not an Audi…Even Government property..is actually “their” property…
    “they” will pay eventually…i hear you..sad..
    but people feel robbed by the latest corrupted governments, they feel desperate by the new tax raises and wages cuts and they dont know what to do………..
    definitely though..a burned car does not bring solutions..

  • 54.. surreal..

  • Also, it’s not the “protestors” in general that bust stores and burn cars… when you have 25000+ people on the streets demonstrating it’s only expected that among them there will also be people who like smashing and burning things for the sake of it… the same people who behave the same way after a soccer match… add the mob mentality of a massive gathering and the frustration of the current economic conditions, and there you have it… this isn’t an excuse, it’s an explanation…

  • PANOS

    How can I sign up for your ‘Athens on Fire’ workshop??!!
    I’m sure this is just what I need to take the ‘Next Step’ as a real photographer!
    But, first I need to know… will you limit the enrollment to a small number? How much one-to-one ‘face time’ with the instructor do you guarantee? (And I certainly wouldn’t want to have to associate with any ‘riff-raff’).

  • Sidney..ha ha..dont worry…no riff raff…and yes smallest number ..3 humans only..no pets..
    and about “face-time”? Endless…24/7..
    big hug..

  • ALL:

    been trying to post this for 2 days…the link makes spam, so i hope it works now…

    a link to Justin Partyka that appeared in Albion…if u remember, Justin’s essay (for his exhibition and book) ‘the east anglians’ was published here at burn in the fall…it’s gorgeous…he also worked on a film too…

    so, here’s the interview…

    enjoy

    http://www.zyworld.com/albionmagazineonline/photography_justin_partyka_interview.htm

    running
    bob

  • Glenn; “3 sheets again I’m afraid!”

    The “Wet” beginning to get to you mate? :-)

    Panos; Why do you have to post links when I’m back on dial-up again? :-)

  • Ross…im the one in greece ..and u the one with the dial up?

  • A few questions about the workshop… Is a moustach compulsory and do you provide special grooming combs? How many Holgas do I have to re-sell to pay for the course? Gotta keep my Hong Kong suppliers informed you see, they may need to ramp up production…

    My sister used to LOVE Nana Mouskouri, the King Singers AND Demis Roussos (not joking!)and I used to give her such a hard time about it… Does that automatically qualify me for the workshop?

    Ooops; just saw the bit about 24-7 access top the instructor. That’s a deal breaker for me, sorry! :-)

  • Does that automatically qualify me for the workshop?
    —————————————————–

    ha ha..sorry Ross…moustache review required..
    sorry i mean Portfolio review required..;)

  • ummm .. I have no moustache .. but I’ll go anyways. maybe I can peek over some fence .. I’ll bring my own fence :)

  • For those contemplating publishing a photo-book:

    http://toomuchchocolate.org/?p=2410

    Photographers turned publishers Jason Fulford and Alec Soth, interviewed by Shawn Records.

  • Thodoris – Thanks for the link. I don’t have time to read it right now, but have bookmarked it and I will. Given today’s technology, I have been thinking about doing this myself.

    To Thomas, Panos, Ross, etc, – Hey, I have a moustache. A beard, too. Maybe I can get extra credit for it.

  • Hi Erica M. Glad to see your work in Mother Jones. Great portraits, especially when ever room was the same shade of yellow. Love these portraits. Congratulations.

  • …when every room…

  • Ross – That is correct – It has been a long, long wet season and only now am I beginning to unravel:)
    Panos – # 42 is a frame , but you gotta get closer , buy your self a crash helmet and get in there.

  • I wanted to let people know that I am offering a workshop in the most traditional area of Europe this summer with Aga Luczakowska. Dates to be decided soon: http://nordichigh.wordpress.com/2010/03/12/1013/

  • If so, then you should also register the iamschizophrenic.net as well…

    :)) being nasty is ok but no need to be a dickhead Theo

  • Oh, come on… it *was* fanny :))

  • thodoris..
    yeap – thanks for the link.

    the question is whether fanny is funny.

  • Panos – # 42 is a frame , but you gotta get closer , buy your self a crash helmet and get in there.
    —————————————————————————–

    http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/JPEG04#5447439984436628050

    ok..sorry..next time i’ll go closer…;)
    big hug

  • I love throwing rocks

  • It was one point that i wanted to throw my camera to the immortals but i realized that that little thibgy wouldnt do much…i wish i had the latest Eos Mark IIIIIII…with 10-1000mm zoom..that could blow a tank…
    and do video at the same time…:)

  • “It was one point that i wanted to throw my camera to the immortals but i realized that that little thibgy wouldnt do much”…no it wouldnt. But using that feeling to make pictures strong enough to carry that anger to the viewer, now that might do something.
    Or I guess you could have put the camera away for a couple of hours and gone native(maybe you did)..but that wouldnt change anything either.

  • nah..im not here to save the world..nor influence anybody.. nor satisfy you or anyone else but me
    sorry
    …fire me.. :)

  • Or I guess you could have put the camera away for a couple of hours and gone native(maybe you did)..
    ————————————–
    shhhhhh…;)

  • pictures strong enough to carry that anger to the viewer…
    —————————————–
    i wasnt really angry…not at all..
    as Imants said:
    “I love throwing rocks”

  • I’ve seen photographers at demos rendered fearless by wearing mountaineering helmets, but they look like tools. Stick to cycling-style.

    Panos, this is all very impressive, but is your agency ok with just posting stuff like this?

  • ““I love throwing rocks”…do you? I mean really?
    I mean not just ‘saying’ that right?
    Whack a big rock upside some dudes head…for fun?, for justice?, for entertainment?….stone some people cause they are ‘bad guys’?
    can you really walk that walk?
    Do you want to?
    I hope not dude, cause you seem like a good guy, and the people that REALLY like throwing rocks at people, for real, generally aint.
    Anyways, Rocks are a whole lot harder to throw than they are to smoke, if you get my drift.
    PEACE

    JOHN

  • Rocks are a whole lot harder to throw than they are to smoke, if you get my drift.

    Still harder to break, especially in the hot sun.

  • You guys still have that over there? not just in old paul newman films? :))

  • I hope not dude, cause you seem like a good guy, and the people that REALLY like throwing rocks at people, for real, generally aint.
    =============================================================

    Believe it or not..i wasnt angry at all…
    confused and really scared at times…yes i admit it…i didnt want to show the clash/fights either… thats Nachtwey job…really..and no..laughing ..i didnt throw any stones..

    of course NOT John….that would be depressing and pathetic…
    im a good guy….

    but is your agency ok with just posting stuff like this?
    ——————————————————-
    Mark, what do mean when u say : “stuff like this?”

  • Panos – stuff which you may be able to money out of, somewhere.

  • “make money” that obviously should be :)

  • Right..i got you…you are right…
    but….BURN comes first… :)plus they are really good people…
    i hope they understand… :)

  • if they work like other agencies unless they commission exclusively, any work you shoot for yourself can be published or sold where and how you like.. the more effort you make the more money potential in there.

    nothing beats a good working relationship – and all it takes is to keep talking, keep being honest and keep shooting.

  • any work you shoot for yourself can be published or sold where and how you like.. the more effort you make the more money potential in there.
    ——————————————————
    yes..that is exactly the deal…

  • …do you? I mean really?
    I mean not just ’saying’ that right?
    Whack a big rock upside some dudes head…for fun?, for justice?, for entertainment……………………………………………. Rocks are a whole lot harder to throw than they are to smoke, if you get my drift.”

    I guess Gladdy just was not able to comprehend “I love throwing rocks” as a metaphor

  • I guess not. I will try harder.

  • DAH.. you wrote:

    “..turning in hard drives, one fast meeting,…”

    and later on that you’ll go and look at the work, without rushing.. I’m curious, how does it work now, is it you that picks the pictures to be published, or more probably the magazine.. do you have any say in it? And when are you allowed to share your work, to use the pitures otherwise than in the mag, which will take a while before it’ll be out, if I got that right?

  • click the photo..then follow the arrows to continue:
    http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Jpeg03#5448095041752958050

    panos skoulidas
    March 13, 2010 at 7:44 am
    “Chasing the Light”

    NEW SLIDESHOW
    NEW SLIDESHOW…

    1) I’m dreaming of pictures like this..
    2) and light like this..
    3)but Athens hides behind its finger sometimes..
    4) After i found the killer..
    5) and became friends temporarily…
    6) i befriended an immigrant…
    7) i witnessed another immigrants arrest..
    8) Obviously he knew the cops very ..very well.
    9) Im here for the light ireminded my self.
    10) and the light was there.
    11) to meet me..
    12) and greet me..
    13) …to embrace me..
    14) sunset..time to go out of control..for some.
    15) and relax for others..
    16) greek food and tsipouro…
    17) old lady selling….flowers
    18) i got tired…decided to get back in the metro..
    19) waiting in the metro..
    20) Trains were passing me by.
    21) i got the best seat in the house..
    22) i witnessed love once again..i felt better..
    23) next morning…i woke up alone…it was Raining in Athens

    http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Jpeg03#

    enjoy..from athens with love

  • Hello, BURN, now in my 3rd week in Cambodia. Many times, the BURN page comes with no “submit” window around here, nevertheless I am still showing stuff regularly on FACEBOOK (herve blandin).

    Well, John Vink, Marcin and Audrey liked this one, so may you….:

    http://www.pbase.com/uc/image/122697178

  • I saw the documentary The Cove last night – heart wrenching and makes me furious – but also is a great example of doing what it takes to tell the stories that are important to you. The movie won Best Feature Documentary at the Oscars.

    Trailer here: http://www.thecovemovie.com/WatchTheTrailer.htm

    Petition here (PLEASE consider signing) : http://www.takepart.com/thecove

    The Cove exposes the slaughter of more than 20,000 dolphins and porpoises off the coast in Japan every year, and how their meat, containing toxic levels of mercury, is being sold as food in Japan and other parts of Asia, often labeled as whale meat. The majority of the world is not aware this is happening as the Taiji cove is blocked off from the public. The focus of the Social Action Campaign for The Cove is to create worldwide awareness of this annual practice as well as the dangers of eating seafood contaminated with mercury and to pressure those in power to put an end to the slaughter.

  • http://milledrive.com/videos/32340/The_Cove.html – the cove..
    close to play.
    enjoy is not the right word
    :ø/

  • Erica

    Thanks a lot.

    Seems to be “a case” in Faroe Islands as well… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin#Human_threats

  • I was working in a big old building today with large glass windows throughout and shiny surfaces everywhere. Everyone was backlit and the glare was horrible. Anyway, I eventually found myself kicking around under the roof and came across a big old room with a big old machine that was conveniently located under a skylight. Easiest picture I ever took.

    But be warned. This link contains no explicit or even implicit content. If pretty pictures with absolutely no purpose or meaning whatsoever sicken you, please don’t click on it, at least not without taking proper medication beforehand.

  • i love this photo…its 3am here..drinking wine…maybe that helps staring at this one…
    loves it..

  • EVA…

    i will at some point describe the editing/selection process in detail for Rio…it should be interesting to many here on Burn…there are so many misunderstandings/rumors etc among photographers on the NG process…who does what, when, and why….let me just say that if i did not “have any say in it”, then working as hard as i do on these projects would not be worth it for any amount of money…

    yet, sure NG is commissioning me and Chris Johns , NG Editor, has the final call and say on everything that appears in NG….it is his magazine…..yet, he does not behave like anything other than someone who wants the best for his readers and treats photographers and all of his “team” as an extreme asset…he was a photographer himself for NG for many years….a colleague and friend..and he does not commission just to have a bunch of pictures to choose from…photographers are commissioned for their expertise as are the writers, cartographers, designers, researchers, caption writers, and the whole mix of folks who are involved in producing an NG story…..so, it is a complex/compound collaboration and usually an extremely pleasant one…as time goes on, i will try to answer your questions on the whole process…

    the “rush” to get the hard drives in was simply to get all the material backed up on the big NG server….so that nothing could ever be lost…5 weeks of 24/7 work and many thousands of dollars invested sitting on my little portable hard drives always makes anyone a little nervous…on the other hand, there is no rush to look at the material….

    i work very closely with Susan Welchman at NG on the selection process…she and i have done my most interesting projects at NG including Hiphop, Pow wows, Andrew Wyeth, Bahia, Living Treasures, etc …a terrific collaboration process we have….we will both take next week off in terms of thinking about Rio…i go to Texas, she is busy with other stories…then , we will start in earnest to evaluate where i now stand with Rio…at some point, we will make a show for the top editors….usually we present around 30-50 photographs to work with for layout….

    one way or another i will return to Rio…sooner rather than later while i still have the taste….i smell personalized book in the long run ….this book will be my own production with an established publisher…all copyrights are mine……

    re NG: nobody besides Susan and i and a handful of editors will see any of my new Rio pictures until late fall…exclusivity is what is contracted on any commission and i cannot do anything personal with my work until 90 days after publication in NG…by late fall it should be ready for publication in NG magazine along with the Rio film i worked on with my son Bryan during this last trip…it will be aired on NGTV also this fall….

    as has always been the case, from the first Rio picture taken (in this case midnight Dec 31/Jan 1, 2010), until seen in magazine print, almost a year will have gone by…it takes months of research and production even after the last picture has been taken…and i suspect i will not be finished shooting until late May…i am imagining perhaps 15-18 pictures for a 20-24 page story in NG and i would need approximately 60-80 photographs for a book…i do not see a book for your coffee table until perhaps late 2011….only with hiphop (Living Proof) have i previously moved this quickly on a book….Cuba, 3 years in the making, Div Soul 20 yrs. in the making…

    cheers, david

  • DAH, thanks for the nugget of information on Susan Welchman. A quick Google search is quite an eye opening experience .

  • Michael

    “If pretty pictures with absolutely no purpose or meaning whatsoever sicken you”

    They don’t, but why photograph something without purpose or meaning? There must have been something that triggered you? If yes, it must be wrong to present it as something meaningless.

  • Nope, that photo had nothing to do with anything I am working on. It’s entirely non-verbal. The only thing that triggered me to take it was the pleasing light and shadow.

    Though who’s to say there’s no meaning in “pleasing?” Or “meaningless?” (guess I did, huh, but I’m an unreliable narrator)

  • The point is just that I don’t like when others talk down their own work, it can destroy. If a photographer is not enthusiastic about his own work, then who will be?

  • You have a good point in general Bjarte, but for me “meaningless” is not necessarily bad (nor is “cold and pointless,” nor beautiful, nor dark, nor ugly). I attempt plenty of “meaningful” work. That’s why I was in an old building in the south Bronx in the first place. But there’s abundant room in my world for different aesthetics. And for whatever reason, I really like that photo. I find it strangely hypnotizing.

  • DAH

    welcome home..you do look just enough to confirm that you ‘got it’, right? Otherwise I think the stress would be a killer…

  • Bjarte

    I am replying to your reply to my comment under Vicky´s essay. A bit unfair because i cannot reply directly to you there but so it is.

    I feel that Ms. Slater is hiding behind her blurry technique. Wonder if she could not face the full monty of retina slicing digital sharpness. Only she knows if this is true. I can only surmise from what i saw in her essay and i did not see her. I saw vague blobby suggestions of her that were very pleasing visual pastry. But i do not know one thing more about her than i knew before i opened her essay. So, at the risk of incurring the wrath of all the fans of this essay, i suggest that she has not been honest with us. Or that she cheated herself of a valuable process of self-discovery. Or that she copped out. Or when faced with the doors of soulful revelation with all thes risk that required or the chance to blur the edges of reality in an utterly inoffensive way, she chose the latter.

    I recall blurry nude self-portraits on a photo site made by a woman in South Africa. The reason i remember them was because they were not simply one pixel deep. They were complex, layered and seemed to say much about this woman´s circumstances, i.e. isolated and very alone in her world. An isolation that could drive someone to madness and perhaps had already taken her there. Her photos told me this. Antoine D´ Agata´s blurry nudes take us straight to the gates of hell. After a trip around his work, we manage to get back to reality but only by the grace of God. I am not saying Vicky´s work has to be tortured to be honest but i think/know she could take risks and go deeper and further into this project and the result would be richer, more provocative, controversial, rewarding. But scary and potentially dangerous. So what that is worth pursuing is not scary and potentially dangerous?

    Vicky, if you are reading this..i ask that you rethink your rejects. Show us what didn´t make the cut because they were too frightening to you, too ugly, too painful perhaps. Throw them into the mix and then i think we´d be seeing something important.

    Best
    Kathleen

  • DAH

    I would like to second Erica in welcoming you back home. I have not been on Burn so didn´t realize you were still in Rio. I hope you will be very pleased with the results of your work after you´ve had some time to explore it. I think i speak for all of us when i say I´m very excited to see what you´ve done. Even more so from between the glossy pages of NG and perhaps later, a book.

    Have a lovely spring back in the good ole USofA.

    Kathleen

  • ERICA…

    the stress associated with Rio, or any other essay work, is not in whether i have the pictures or not…the stress is simply in the logistics of getting into the situations where i can even make pictures….there is of course the wandering street photographer in me that produces many images…but, there is also the many situations where contacts and phone calls and old fashioned pr to gain access take up so much time and is indeed often stressful, particularly in the the Rio culture where good intentions are often confused with real access and acceptance….sure, i have taken little peeks and have seen a picture or two…still a picture here and there does not an essay make…so, it is the structure and flow where i will put my efforts after culling down to the best single images…

    cheers, david

  • DAH – That’s fascinating – if I shoot film and I know someone is expecting images, even someone like a bride, am never easy until I can see for sure that things worked out.

    Speaking of brides, Kathleen… I know what you are refering to in Vicky’s work, and I for one admire both Antoine D and his work and other work that goes deep into personal exploration, but I give Vicky a pass here/now in that I think this work is a success on one level of her seraching. For me not all work need reflect what I think of as the bride stripped bare level (a la The Bride embodies impulsive desire; pure id, the primal subconscious, set free. Not only is she stripped bare, she has shed her physical form completely, revealing a naked instinctual self.) For me, sometimes it is enough to look at and learn from, to let the outer exploration give way to some inner awakenings. Time opens – think of the flower, beautiful as both bud and full blossom.

  • panos skoulidas
    March 14, 2010 at 12:40 pm
    NEW LINK..NEW SLIDESHOW….

    1) Went back to the flea market today..
    2) A trip back to the Past…
    3) I found Lenin..
    4) Time has literally stopped..
    5) people selling memories.
    6)(no comment)
    7) and then i saw my reflection..
    8)(no comment)
    9) bargains everywhere..
    10) violence and blood…humans argue…
    11)..and then i saw an Angel..

    http://picasaweb.google.com/innerspacecowpanos/Jpeg05#

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Yiouhooooooooooooo

    BURNIANS…my BURNIANS…
    “You won’t realize the distance you’ve walked until you take a look around and realize how far you’ve been.”

    Yes…let’s walk the walk and let’s BURN the talk…

    I LOVE YOU ALL…I am extremely busy with some civilian projects…

    P.S KATIE …why???I am here and there …waiting…I will be back
    and oime …I am not prettier than PANOS…:))) LADY LEE …I LOVE YOU

  • a civilian-mass audience

    FRED BURTON,

    I need to see your vision…I want to connect…:)))

  • Kathleen

    Good to know you are still lurking out there M’Dear.

  • Regarding Ellie Brown’s essay…
    I thought it was appropriate to mention this here so there can be some discussion about it…

    Ellie’s work and some of the comments made about it bring up the issue (for me) as to the importance of concept vs content. Not in her work specifically or on burn but IN GENERAL.

    IMHO concept should not be “worshipped” over content. Seems it often is these days. VERY often…
    In general I see a lot of very clever ideas being poorly executed and yet praised. What’s up with that?

    Doesn’t anyone care about execution anymore?

  • Cathy..:)..
    i repeat..for you only:

    “…Please watch the video podcasts …
    really, go see this film

    http://foureyedmonsters.com/

    i agree… i just watched the whole 13 episodes…really great..i will watch it again…and thank u , thank u, thank u for introducing me/us to the work of Arin and Susan..

    now..Ellie..i think it was a great idea (capsule R)..Zach’s or yours or whoever though of it ..no doubt..
    but..
    as Erica said above: ” I appreciate the conceptual nature of the piece but see the images here more as documentation of a happening, than as a stand alone art piece… ”

    Now… (still laughing) with Cathy’s comment above..: ” concept vs content”.
    Cathy said:
    “IMHO concept should not be “worshipped” over content. Seems it often is these days. VERY often…”

    Cathy..:))) ..stop assuming and stop making your own theories…nobody’s worshiping Anything..relax…
    take it easy..re-read Ericas words…
    imo? Great concept…Poorly executed …unfortunately..very very poorly..i would suggest…please try it again…the photography part of it is no good…not only it does not stand alone without text..but even after reading the text,..watching the 3 parts of YouTube explanation..even then..the photos were still…average boring snapshots…Dont get discouraged…welcome to Burn …please though…give it another try..but this time think photography also…Because what goes on in your head is impossible to communicate it with the above photos…
    Ellie, ALL…
    please watch the 13 podcasts from a similar project to see the difference..to see what i mean…
    http://foureyedmonsters.com/
    …”

  • a civilian-mass audience

    “Don’t wait until everything is just right. It will never be perfect. There will always be challenges, obstacles and less than perfect conditions. So what. Get started now. With each step you take, you will grow stronger and stronger, more and more skilled, more and more self-confident and more and more successful.”

    for you my PHOTOPHILOSOPHERS

  • Cathy,

    For me, Ellie Brown’s concept is déjà vu and it is childish…

  • I judge more the contents than the technique because myself I do not master the technique

  • Gordon, Civilian..

    Heyyyyy! i´ve been good..just drawing..not much photography, lots of tech problems killed all desire for photography for a few months. But am working on a project i started in December now so when i think photos, i think Burn..hope you are both happy, healthy and still wise-asses ;)

    ERICA

    ¨For me, sometimes it is enough to look at and learn from, to let the outer exploration give way to some inner awakenings. Time opens – think of the flower, beautiful as both bud and full blossom¨

    You are more patient and circumspect than i am, clearly. I went back to the Colourblind essay anbd also visited Ms. Slater´s blog and website. I really liked your comment and thought i´d look at the work again through the prism of your poetic thoughts to see if the bud held as much artistic promise as the fully revealed bloom. The sole appeal of this project for me lies in the haze of soft feminine creme-puffs of flesh filling the lens. There is no context, no layers. Nothing else. If Ms. Slater discovered anything about herself through these self-portraits, it might rest in the dreamy delight she experienced seeing herself as an ethereally voluptuous and painterly figure. And i say good-o from her point of view. I can imagine that she experienced great joy when one of these long exposures of her body that she probably is pretty ambivalent about in low-slung jeans and navel-baring top overcame all technical odds and revealed her full measure of milky-skinned, red-lipped sensuality. But is that all there is, Erica? Where are the versions that let her down? That failed to deliver the painterly goods? Those are the photos i crave. Otherwise i am more tempted to go outdoors and find figures in the clouds or the leafy trees beyond my back door where the context is transient, fleeting and entirely dependant on my discovery.

    It is curious and telling for me that Ms. Slater turns a sharp lens on her portrait subjects and yet for herself she has chosen the softest, vaguest technique possible in a pinhole lens coupled with constant movement to further defy the role of photography as honest document.

    Erica..i sincerely appreciate your thoughtful comment. I go into the afternoon pondering buds and blossoms :)

    best
    Kathleen

  • a civilian-mass audience

    That’s why …I LOVE YOU…

    VIVA !!!

  • Civilian

    ¨“Don’t wait until everything is just right. It will never be perfect. There will always be challenges, obstacles and less than perfect conditions. So what. Get started now. With each step you take, you will grow stronger and stronger, more and more skilled, more and more self-confident and more and more successful.”

    EXACTLY! Ellie and Zach tried something out. The idea was intriguing. The edit sucked. Some photos were decent. Zach vanished into the Craigs-mist from whence he came. Ellie was crushed on different levels. The concept held promise. Reality reared it´s ugly head. That´s where it got interesting for me. Watching the essay was like watching a real-life emotional train wreck about to happen. Which is sorta weird because once you know the ending, Seth´s idea begins to look like one of the more original pick-up lines out there. Hey, let´s meet and fast-track a relationship so i can go back out these and do it again as soon as possible. Wondering what kind of idea he cooked up to hook Ellie´s replacement, Alice/Alison. But Ellie, a true believer abandoned at the You Tube altar, like Miss Havesham keeps the lamp-light burning and carries on singlehandedly, the wedding bouquet growing staler and staler along with all trace of Zach.

    Taking the project as far as Ellie has taken it was probably overkill since it really wasn´t all that great to begin with. It was like turning a college essay into a thesis. However, the thing is, it DID get this far. And Ellie deserves credit for this accomplshment. I personally would like to see her let it go and move on using her experience and hopefully improved skills to achieve something totally cool. Go for it, Ellie! You did this, virtually by yourself. Ýou have the rest of your life to kick conceptual butt..go for it!

    best
    Kathleen

  • crap..i KEEP saying Seth instead of Zach..could it be that i´m pissed about the way he just disappeared like that? hmm..

    CIVILIAN DARLIN´..ditto, babe, ditto.

  • PANOS…

    I’m always happy to make you laugh.

    Thanks for reposting the link…just for me :))
    I looks good. Content and concept both. YES!
    Okay, I will watch it.

    I haven’t been able to keep up with what’s going on here lately.
    Was there some discussion about foureyedmonsters that I missed?

  • Taking the project as far as Ellie has taken it was probably overkill since it really wasn´t all that great to begin with. It was like turning a college essay into a thesis.
    ——————————————————————–

    It was like turning a college essay…into an OBSESSION..you mean..
    it almost sounds desperate..as desperate as craigslist is…im glad that zach guy finally escaped…
    no wonder he bailed…i hope Ellie will get it together soon…
    A fun idea turns into a sad desperate story…

  • Somebody could please explain me what ‘craiglist’ is or does? A google search brings me to a page with a bunch of links, that takes to another page with more links…

  • Eva…craigslist is a famous website in america that u can find jobs…cars…houses for rent…sex and lately love…
    for example:
    “Hi, my name is panos..i live in santa monica and im single..im interested in a long term relationship..with a busty latina that is no older than 23 years old…im tall, athletic with green eyes, big belly and a secure job..blah blah…”

    get it?

  • Panos, thanks, yep, get it.. secure job? ;))

    DAH, thank you for your response! About ‘having your say’, handing them over YOUR work of course you already have your say, it’s right there, in your pictures..

  • Panos

    Re: the desperate obsession..i was trying to be gentle. I hope Ellie quickly recovers her equilibrium and sense of perspective so that she can think about what she wants from the next phase of her photography and go after it with all the gusto she´s clearly capable of. This can´t be easy. You gave her great advice. And sweetly too :)

    K.

  • Kathleen, I’m pretty dumbstruck by your visciousness.
    I sincerely hope that you never find any of my pictures appealing.

  • I have read all comments here, and yes, it does look like shooting a prisoner of war!!!
    And yes Ellie has not been strong enough to stand by her idea with respect for the others ideas, and that I believe it’s a mistake.

    However, I must admit that this story is a “badly shot photo romance” with an intriguing concept behind, which has been totally and entirely spoiled by its realisation.

    The only things that come through are sadly the total sensation that Zach couldn’t give a toss about this project, and that you Ellie seem a bit of an eccentric Cindy Sherman wannabe. The latter confirmed by the picture number 86 which is the only (together with 104) good photo of the all essay, if we relate those with the concept. In pic 86 the stage it’s finally yours, the background color it’s perfect, your position, expression and pride to be a next mum, works perfectly within the composition of the image. The only thing is that, it appears so strongly how that seems to be your real environment, i.e selfportrait (full-on I’d suggest).

    Really nice concept though, I think you’re a bit of a genius who knows has tools, but is still uncertain on how to use them.

    I know it does sound very patronising indeed, but I am really not intending this, so please do accept my full apologies in case you’d feel attacked. In reality I believe that this is one good reason why David and Anton are publishing a diverse range of stuff, to promote the debate. So let’s get on with it!!

  • it does look like shooting a prisoner of war!!!
    ————————————————
    in fact the acting and posing was SO not convincing …reminds me of the wedding photos of the couple in the movie “Green Card”… wouldnt even pass through a newbie immigration officer…
    (to be perceived as a joke..please)

  • Vicky

    Vicious? I would agree with blunt, outspoken, or just plain wrong. But vicious? I said your work was pretty. I said it would look amazing printed large, with beautiful colors and hung on a wall of blazing white to really show them off. And i feel that way. That´s not vicious!

    Honestly, Vicky, why are you shocked that there is a naysayer in the Burn audience? And only one at that. You should be pleased. Pay no attention. Clearly i´m an idiot. Speaking quite seriously, i think a successful photo essay is not one that seduces everyone into a complimentary stupor. This is not flickr. A truly successful essay is one that raises hackles and strong opinions and provocative discussions. It brings something new to the table. If i was you, i would not be encouraged by a swarm of universal applause. If your essay made me wonder about you, curious as to why you did not say more, or go deeper, hungry to see the photos you call failures to see what sort of edge you might have gone to and then pulled back from..it´s because i think you are capable of communicating more to us. If i didn´t i would not have bothered to write as much as i have on the subject of your essay.

    Maybe a more productive response from you would be a reasoned reply instead of hitting out at me.

    Sorry truly, that i upset you. Perhaps you will have the opportunity to return the favor someday.

    Best
    Kathleen

  • ..but now..since Ellie asked for it:
    “..Hopefully Zach will step in. He seems to be afraid to engage in any sort of dialogue here but his voice needs to be heard…”

    its time to call Zach out…it seems to me that he wanted to get laid…Little that he expected was to be called out and exploited by his own idea/project…Zach? Zaaaach?
    (to not be perceived as a “nasty” comment..:)

  • Panos

    Ellie reminds me of Horton to Zach´s Lazy Maisie:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G5g1H08EhY

    Zach,Come out, come out wherever you are!

    k.

  • Kathleen..all (of my) jokes aside…its pretty sad that Ellie’s denial wont let her see that zach abandoned …both her and that project long long time ago..

  • …and im confused to as what Ellie is really trying to achieve…bring zach back? continue that project? establish it in the art world? im really confused…

  • Panos

    Ellie fell for the project first. You can see from the early photos that there is absolutely zero chemistry between these two. Then something happened. Who knows when the project became more her baby than his? i was very intrigued by the background drama of the real life relationship combined with the conceptual one. i suppose it isn´t any different than two actors falling for each other on the movie set except that in this case, she was the photographer on top of everything else. She had to have worked her butt off from the get-go while according to her, when the project was finished Zach was cramming in the writing to get it all done before he flew the coop for camp in the outback, sans phone, sans internet but Ellie´s replacement most certainly on the back burner. And i think that as long as she pursues this project she´s holding the torch high for him as well. Which is why he can´t be found. Ouch. Anyway, i am wishing she would take this project, tuck it into her box of memories and get on with her life and her art. This artistic experience (for better or for worse) will probably have conditioned her to do some pretty fine work goin forward if she chooses the right project.

    And now, i have to get back to my own life and art..Ellie, if you see this dialogue exchange, we´re not being critical at all. We feel your pain, both artistic and personal. I think Zach was a butthole. Maybe you should think about letting it go for the time being and moving on. Your call. Just sayin´

    Best
    Kathleen

  • Sad desparate obsession my ass. If the essay is presented as Conceptual Art but at the same time (imo effectively) seeks to elicit the viewers’ empathy with the characters, then “unexpected reactions” and talk of the blurring of the fictional and real relationships in the frame story can only be understood as part of the theatre of the piece.

    It’s provocative curation to put this in a photography magazine because – from the viewpoint of many strivers in the many, many fields of photography – conceptual art is dismissive of the value of technique and the seeking of traditionally meaningful content.

    But the penny is STILL slowly dropping for me as to what Burn is all about, and it’s great that D&A seem to be doing everything they can, like mimi sez, to stretch the definition of what photography means.

  • Hey Kathleen

    Now I’ve never considered myself a wise-ass, but I’m taking that as a compliment. Happy you’re back with us.

  • KATHLEEN,

    Hi there! Long time no talk to :))

    “i was very intrigued by the background drama of the real life relationship combined with the conceptual one.”

    That’s EXACTLY what I came back to say…What sounds very interesting to me is the “outtakes” (using your same film set metaphor.) If Ellie didn’t want to do it SOMEONE should have shot the two of them when they weren’t pretending to meet, marry, etc. What did THAT look like? The real moments that took place in between the fake ones. Wish I could have been there for that.

  • . secure job? ;))
    ——————–
    ha ha..yes Eva…i wish..or maybe not?
    big hug

  • Wish I could have been there for that.
    ————————————
    Cathy i agree…Either you or Sobol..
    big hug

  • Panos

    You’ve got some tech issues here my friend, check out the colour shift at the edges, especially evident in photo #2. give me a shout if you’d like glafleurphoto@shaw.ca

  • Cathy

    Yes, me too! So glad to see you back from India..you ARE back, right? Anyplace i can see your work from your trip besides Flickr?

    So, about this latest concept piece, here´s the dream team..Zach the Craigslist conceptual heart-throb with dubious motives. Ellie, the zealous artist who jumps in with both feet, heart, soul and camera. Wendy does the documentary film, Audrey does the stills. I will bet this would have been one amazing production. Art imitating real life imitating art imitating art imitating real life imitating…well, you get it.

    I think the winner in all of this is Ellie. Limping and bleeding she still made it to the finish line. After everything she´s gone through, a weak edit is the least of her problems. You go, grrl! Book, blog and published on Burn and all this with a broken heart. wooowoo!! What might she accomplish next?

    GORDON

    heaven´s no, you are the farthest thing from a wise ass..same with Civi..it was a play on words..healthy, happy and wise. I just couldn´t leave it alone ;)

    best
    kathleen

  • KAT
    ha ha ha…
    :)
    thats the story to be told…..
    ***

  • Yea a bit of working and I have my first small dummy of etrouko I via blurb http://www.etrouko.com.au/imants.htm

    The paper is acceptable, printing not too bad if you get their printers cymk profile though you do have to revert the images back to rgb to place them into the book.This all lets one sy=tay within the gammut range

  • good for you imants..
    i think blurb had some real issues with the quality of some of their out-sourced printers a year or two ago.. seems to be sorted though.

  • …and you can use their templates to lay it out in indesign.

    Like a lot of people I was put off by the bad color and crap paper of the earlier versions. did a couple of dummies and binned them immediately.
    IMANTS. How do they look in the flesh, specifically the b/w. Any color casts? loss of shadow detail etc?

  • i posted this under ellies story by mistake.. or a karmic twist..
    the real deal – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dYnKUyoyg8&feature=player_embedded

    i cannot say that i enjoy the essay.. it left me wondering too much about his distant body language early on.. the motivation.. the message.. parody of relationship or navel gazing self exploration? attempt at notoriety or derivative work based on four eyed monster?

    the real deal posted above just cannot be beaten.. and perhaps in any work where we seek to pretend there will be a fall short of the reality of our experience?`

    damn you know – it´s tough enough to capture the ACTUAL vibe of any moments in photo and film.. where on earth do we begin to transfer the feelings of a conceptual marriage and childbirth?

    the story of the work – the essay.. the blog.. all made me feel pity for ellie in the end..

  • david.
    shoebox….Utterly gorgeous.

  • the story of the work – the essay.. the blog.. all made me feel pity for ellie in the end..
    —————————————————————————

    unfortunately ..sad..

  • Some colour casts in the bnw but that is my fault as I never checked them in RGB nor converted to grayscale. I use a limited colour palette, so my problems are not too great, I doubt if I would attempt a Webb colour book in blurb. Despite that I learnt a heap and with a few changes I am about to set on version two and reassess other forms of media that the images will translate to.

  • I doubt if most work here is really that suited to blurb but I may use the quirks to my advantage.

  • but I may use the quirks to my advantage.
    ———————–
    “quirks” is always the best part…almost in “anything”…

  • Shoebox…
    Wow!!
    A little too fast-paced at times… Some of the best pictures (and there are many, *many* outstanding pictures in there) flash-by in a fraction of a second and some of the fillers stay on for more than they should…
    But still, truly…
    *Amazing*

  • thats what i adore about shoebox thodoris..

    the excellent photos flash by as quickly as the magical moments they portray.. the endless frustration at the fleeting glimpses of joy.. sex.. ups and downs.. without being able to climb backwards into the photos.. boom and they are gone.

    by comparison, ellie and his piece seems flat.. hollow.. child-like mimicry without the weight of power.. superficial play which is okay of course – what ever is fun.

    panos
    to me pity is a horrible thing to feel.. one of the least appetizing..

  • shoebox is cool, thanks for posting the link.. but there’s a substantial difference between that and ellie’s essay, one is for real, the other is fiction, staged.. and it shows. to really work (the essay here) it porbably should not, but it does..

  • pity is a horrible thing to feel.. one of the least appetizing..
    ——————————–

    it doesnt make my day either…
    (desperation is a sign of our times)

  • to really work (the essay here) it porbably should not, but it does..
    —————————————-
    Eva..im confused..

  • eva..
    in part i think that´s where the pity i feel comes from..

    i look at the attempt at a piece of staged work, knowing that in fact there was a real relationship happening which seems to have not been the intention… the staged piece of work seems all ellie has managed to salvage..

    a real happening with real emotion and the full power was going on behind the mock-up and staged reality and it seems a shame that rather than be left with the possibilities that real relationship could have bought.. ellie has been left with the half empty attempt at portraying an unreality..
    perhaps the visio of what she pointed the camera at was too much of a homage to his artistic concept, at the expense of her own creativity? and now he will not engage with the piece at all..

    it´s very sad..
    on the blog it mentions that she wants a chance meeting with him, (now that they are ¨really¨ not speaking), so that the final photos in the set at least can be real.. yet he seems to have flown.. gone.. abandoned..

    for me the essay is a strange piece of theater draped over a potentially more interesting reality.. neither a fine execution of his concept nor as deep as it feels like ellie is capable of.

  • David… you’ve got a good point there… and thanks for the link… truly inspiring work…

  • thodoris..
    i love the camera dwelling on the dog and the mundane as thats what most of the time is like :ø)
    a dog raising it´s eyebrow at our foolishness :ø)

  • (regarding the editing/sequence/pacing of the shoebox…)

  • just looking at ellies site
    this set from a long term project gives an idea of the intimacy she is capable of http://elliebrown.com/section/86157_Two_Girls_My_Sisters_1996_2006.html

  • panos, sorry ;)) i mean, that the essay, to really work, should not show that it is staged, that it’s fiction.. or perhaps it could be a parody, really overstaged, then it would make more sense (to me), like this the photography part of the essay is a tad boring, not convincing, to me at least.. guess you’re more confused than before now ..

    david, pity why? there was an ad up at craiglist, the act has been played, by both.. if one of the two has put more into it is the other one to blame? why? i don’t think we know enough to be able to just shoot at zach, what we have is one voice, what we’d need would be two voices..

  • eva – perhaps you´re right and i´m being too black n white..

  • David..yes you are too b&w today…
    hmmm…but, so am I..;)

    Eva..yes u managed to confuse me even more..he he

  • it´s because i am up to my armpits in HTML code working on my site..
    i´m selling myself
    http://bophoto.co.uk/workshops/workshops.htm
    buy me.

    had enough now..
    going to smoke on the balcony
    and contemplate my left shoe,
    which has a hole in the sole
    where the snow gets through.

  • DAH, on your last Twitter feed you mention the EPF deadline is two weeks away, yet on the EPF page the deadline is April 15th or about one month away.
    Did something change or is the deadline still April 15th.

  • david b, thank you for a link, Shoebox is very amazing, I love it !

  • david: you’ve got a ; instead of a : after ‘exclusively through’

    panos ;)

  • KURT…

    my mistake…April 15th is the EPF deadline….

  • Regarding David B’s Shoebox link, that method is what I was talking about awhile back in a discussion with Panos. My cousin, who is an artist but not a professional photographer, was in Turkey for a few weeks and took thousands of pictures and a few videos with a low-end point and shoot. Here’s a minute of his video (includes Immortals, for you Panos). I thought the concept worked well for him throwing together a little tourist show and might work well for Panos’s eight links of Greek pics. Maybe not, but I think the method has possibilities for serious photographers.

    Regarding Ellie’s thing, when I looked at it yesterday morning I was afraid that neither the work nor the artist was mature enough to stand up against the comments that were sure to come. Unfortunately, subsequent events seem to have confirmed the validity of that fear. It sounds like it might actually be interesting to follow the links and contemplate the real story, but I would be doing it for the wrong reasons. Perhaps pity is not the right word, but I feel something like that for her, probably more for her experience here than for whatever happened in the project. Part of me hopes she really did quit reading the comments. Another part recognizes that she should read them, then engage Bob, Erica, Kathleen, et. al. about just what they found so lacking in the work. Even though she probably shouldn’t have been thrown into this fire, it’s doubly sad if she can’t learn anything from it.

  • CATHY..

    since comments are open now under almost all essays, you may discuss under the essay itself….no more one comment rule…

  • MICHAEL

    I would hope that anyone who submits work to Burn would have already checked us out. I mean, our comments are consistently honest, often blunt and hopefully helpful. In reading a bit of the text from Ellie and Zach’s Blurb book, I came to find out that Ellie teaches photography on the university level. My goodness, if she can’t handle critiques, who can?

    Seems that some of us held back from commenting because we got pulled into the drama of Ellie’s real-life story and lost our ability to stand back and respond to the essay as a work of photography. I don’t think any of the comments posted were mean, simply honest. Imagine if you will what Jim Powers might have said. Zikes!!!

    I guess I’m surprised that DAH allowed it to run unedited. Isn’t that a first? To have an essay on Burn with 142 photos?

    Patricia

  • Patricia, no, I didn’t think they were mean. Most came from some of the nicest people here and I think they were spot on. Perhaps Gladdy is right that this is some kind of ruse?

  • PATRICIA…

    yes, i think 142 photos is a first and a last…i did not see each photo as a photo nor did Ellie..it was one big contact sheet film like sequence i suppose…no way to edit in the normal sense…besides, i gave her every opportunity to take it down in length, add more text, or whatever..knowing it would go down as controversial at best, i let her go with it and was curious to see how she would defend….i do like to see photographers thinking outside the norm and conceptually …whenever one does that, the chances for total non-acceptance are high…i think Ellie did see some of the comments as nasty (she said so) rather than constructive…but, yes being a university professor , i am sure she is used to tough critique…it will be very interesting to see where she goes next….i doubt she will cower…

    as John said and as Michael repeated, isn’t some kind of ruse obvious??

    cheers, david

  • Kathleen, let me address a few points you made.

    ” There is no context, no layers. Nothing else. If Ms. Slater discovered anything about herself through these self-portraits, it might rest in the dreamy delight she experienced seeing herself as an ethereally voluptuous and painterly figure.

    So you don’t see layers or context, you don’t gain anything from the pictures and you find them frustrating because of that.
    That’s fine and a fair comment….absolutely no problem with that.

    The “dreamy delight” part and….
    “I can imagine that she experienced great joy when one of these long exposures of her body that she probably is pretty ambivalent about in low-slung jeans and navel-baring top overcame all technical odds and revealed her full measure of milky-skinned, red-lipped sensuality.”
    ….sounds like you’re writing a critique of someone you really don’t like…you use the knife with great skill.

    “It is curious and telling for me that Ms. Slater turns a sharp lens on her portrait subjects and yet for herself she has chosen the softest, vaguest technique possible in a pinhole lens coupled with constant movement to further defy the role of photography as honest document.”

    Not sure what the “ms. slater” bits all about but still…
    Obviously you’re not familiar with everything I do, I wouldn’t expect you to be.
    In the past I have done a series of blurred pictures before the pinholes, soft and very vague, other peoples faces and bodies. I have also taken portraits of myself, more in focus than these ‘sharp” pictures that you refer to, laid bare, no make up, exposed…a me that’s as much me as these pinholes.
    These pictures are soft and vague because that’s how I wanted them, whether it was me or a model, I’m not sure why that’s so hard to grasp.

    “This is not flickr.”

    I’m aware it’s not Flickr, but it’s really not so different, it’s a mix of people who enjoy photography, there are still conversations going on, even if they’re not public.
    I wasn’t expecting an easy ride here, I posted thinking I’d get half a dozen mixed comments and people would move on to the next essay.

    ” A truly successful essay is one that raises hackles and strong opinions and provocative discussions. It brings something new to the table”

    Really?
    Always?
    There’s no room for something that you just enjoy looking at, no room for beauty without provocation or hackles?

    When I take pictures, I guess I’m mostly thinking portraits but it applies to these as well, I try to show the beauty, I want people to look at themselves and love themselves, to know that they have got their scars, their fat, their bad teeth, that chin they try to hide, but to look at the pictures and see how fucking amazing they are…that you see past what the magazines or you yourself have said are faults and to recognize and love it all. If you want hackles etc then you’re not going to get them from me….at least not in this series.

    I take alot of pictures in all different ways, I try things out, I have ideas, I mess up, and then I keep trying.
    I’m genuinely taken aback when people are positive about what I do because I feel like I’ve hardly started, It could always be better.

    The hardest thing about posting to Burn isn’t the thought of criticism, I expect that, it’s the saying “look, this really does mean something to me, it is who i am” ….it’s making yourself vulnerable, regardless of the type of pictures that you’re posting.
    I’ll be much gentler in any comments I make in the future.

    Vicky

  • Wow, david. That was quite an exhausting post up there.

    I’m like you. When I get stuck in I’m quite unbearable to be around. Too single minded. I guess that’s why I took a sabbatical for a while to be at home while my wife worked. Seven years ago I would not have been able to handle assignment shooting and family. It had to be one or the other. It had to be family.

    But now I’m back at work I find that I don’t take it so seriously. Why should I? It’s just photography. But it did take me years to figure that out. I always knew but didn’t always comprehend. I think I do now.

    Besides, the best work I’ve ever produced and which I still produce, came from having removed myself from the profession. You’ll see it soon for I’m now uploading it to PhotoShelter for Burn submission. I understand the work now and so it’s time to bring it forth.

    Sounds to me like you need some serious rest after an intense assignment. You have a frenetic mind. I do too and I know how hard it is to hush it up some for a while. I just glad I can let it rip again now that I’m back at work.

    A short film I made as part of my BOYHOOD project (readying for Burn) is to be screened at HOST Gallery in London tonight, March 15th (7-8.30pm). If anyone’s in London and at a loose end, please do come along. I’m quite certain a few jars will be consumed afterwards.

  • If the essay that appeared here on burn was meant as nothing more than bait to bring people into an altogether different project, I’ll just note at this point that I didn’t find the bait enticing enough to follow. But apparently others did, so perhaps it can be viewed as a success on those terms? Either way, I fear the whole thing kind of screams “high school,” but I guess it’s best to withhold comment until the true nature of the piece is exposed. Should be interesting.

  • MICHAEL….

    i think “ruse” is the wrong word…my error in suggesting that in its purest meaning…i think satire was Ellie intent….but, now she is refusing further explanation, so i am at a loss….as i said, i knew well this essay would be controversial for many reasons….and i told her so….she feels now held up to ridicule….i would also not use the word “bait” , but rather simply pin prick to look at narrative in a different way…i think most of the criticism pointed towards “nice out of the box thinking, but could have been executed better”….my guess was that she was going for “anti-photography” or at least “anti-craft”…she was consistent in her shooting approach which would lead me to believe this intent….this is certainly nothing new….if the whole thing “screams high school” then it needs to scream it loud enough to “work”….i will say this…if i knew Ellie had another new attempt on another subject somewhere, i would definitely feel compelled to take a look…she has made us feel uncomfortable about something….out of kilter….not in our “normal” frame of reference…this is not easy to do actually….i did not see what i thought were nasty comments…Ellie thought so however and may have us take the whole essay off….i think from her last comment she wishes she had presented it as multi-media with sound/voice over and yet at the same time points to book as the best way to see (her Blurb book is pretty interesting)….ahhhh, photographers!! gotta love ’em….

    cheers, david

  • ellie says it has been ¨the most intense¨ project she has done – and that just does not surface in the photos or text.. i can appreciate an anti-craft attempt.. but the moments are too banal to achieve what the text indicates went on.

    it looks as it intended to look – as it was intended to look by the guy, zach.. a parody of a relationship for conceptual ends, which, (ellie says), came into the realms of ´the real´ due to relationship-scripts which we all might be vulnerable to..

    i think there is a great deal of effort going into the project – gone into the project – and that indicates a solid belief in it.. yet there are too many ¨if´s, ´but´s and ´could be´s for me..

    uncomfortable, certainly.. yet not for the reasons that perhaps the project could make me feel uncomfortable if it were better executed..

    as it is i feel uncomfortable at naivety.. poor execution.. a rather long winded and demanding message that takes to long – through the blog and slideshow – to really ¨get¨.. or feel the force of.

    i´m with bob – it´s probably a very good book..

  • AND..
    DAH

    enjoy SXSW.. it´s a giggle from all accounts.
    one day i will make it..
    next year..

  • DAH

    Well, if Ellie thinks the essay should be removed I would be extremely disappointed in her. I came to some strong conclusions about the work after reading the book and was quite impressed with the whole experiment. Both artistically and as a sociological (or would that be anthropological..am confused by my ´ogicals) document. I could go on discussing this essay for weeks i think. Ad nauseum without a doubt. It´s really fascinating to me. Talk about layered, phew!! And she did this entire relationship thing X2 because she really did fall for the guy, PLUS did the photography and put the book together and looked for publishing venues plus handle her career, ohmygod, i´m exhausted just contemplating it all.

    If there were a lot of cheesy photos, well, hellsbells, the entire concept was cheesy. The whole fast-tracked relationship idea was reality TV cheesy. The bachelor party, the wedding, the pregnancy..all of it. But if you read the book, you start getting this deep sense of dread inside, this, as i said, emotional train wreck about to happen…like a piece of literature that superficially is one thing but below the surface there are some dark and turbulant waters. Perhaps it´s entirely individual how much depth one finds in a situation like this. But for me it got real dark and real turbulant.

    In the end, i was impressed. But now Ellie has to let the work stand on its own. She and Zach made their decision to lay it all out there as a spectacle and now she acts like a shy virgin at the orgy (L. Cohen). It´s too late for that and i have faith that she can stand up to this storm of dismissal, disapproval and in some cases, commments that hover at the edge of ridicule. If this piece is indeed deeper and has more value than some of the cheesy photos within, then now is the time to ´fess up or to simply sit back and let us all stew in her carefully conceived and contrived performance piece turned reality drama turned Greek tragedy (Panos).

    VICKY

    Wow, now THAT´S what i call a response and you make strong and valid points. Unfortunately i have got to get to work at my job but when i´m wrong i say so..on some points i am wrong..i will come back later with a response for you. For now, i thank you for taking the time to respond. bbl, k?

    Best
    Kathleen

  • DAVID B….

    your comments on Ellie are well reasoned and i think reflect the majority view….maybe she is telling us that relationships are often “banal and not very well executed”…i am not sure….

    yes, i think SXSW is your kind of event….sorry you cannot be there….

    cheers, david

  • KATHLEEN…

    many thanks….you are on to it i think….and , yes, after all that effort and thinking and planning, Ellie should stick by her guns…what Ellie did do and that i see very very little of, is that she was THINKING conceptually…i suspect we will see more of Ellie…

    cheers, david

  • ¨maybe she is telling us that relationships are often “banal and not very well executed”¨

    ha.. never. :ø)

    ¨´fess up or to simply sit back and let us all stew in her carefully conceived and contrived performance piece turned reality drama turned Greek tragedy¨

    quite right Kathleen..
    it´s surely not enough to just tell us how powerful it all is.. time wise it´s difficult to get to grips with short of spending an hour or two reading.. the short of it could, from my understanding, benefit from being more concise..
    likewise – i very much hope the essay stays and the ellie continues to stand by it.. as much of it´s strength comes from that simply being the case.. it is here.. so is she.

    now..
    my real baby smells like croydon sewage works.. his expression testifies to the power of that.. and i could post a fine full colour snap of his more interesting past movements to bring force to the fact.

  • DAH

    Yes, agreed..Ellie deserves boatloads of credit. I find the whole thing fascinating on every level, a bit less on the purely visual one. But it´s all of apiece. The original craigslist posting, the photos, the journal entries, Zach´s camping trip duplicity, his ultimate disappearance, all of it. The blog is a bit of overkill to me. I would have preferred a web-site instead of Zach and Ellie´s wedding planning complete with a gift registry at Macy´s. Maybe a wedding video. haha..But that really would have required a LOT of help. No way they could have done all of that.

    Agreed, I hope we shall see MUCH more of Ellie!!!!

    k.

  • DAVID

    Yes, i agree..much of the credibility of the concept depends on Ellie´s posture now. She might not be seeing the forest for the trees. She needs to step back and get an objective handle on the project, understand it herself beyond the emotional landmines that actually threatened to blow the project to kingdom come, stop pining for her absent collaborator, stand up for the piece, defend and explain it in rational terms, educate the rest of us in conceptual art/performance pieces so that we understand and more, APPRECIATE her achievment.

    Ok..well, enough of Ellie..i have been here too long..

    have a great day/evening/etc and give that kid a bath!

    k.

  • kathleen – I appreciate your writing back and was going to respond today, but i think I am going to let it rest as you and vicky are talking, and as I got sucked in to the 4eyedmonsters podcasts and now have no room for writing time..

    but have to say, I just loved the podcasts and laughed out loud with true sympathy of artistic youth when our young hero in the film said “I’m getting old. I feel like I’m going to die soon. My left thumb and my right toe don’t work like they used to…I just turned 29.”

  • haha kathleen – bath comes later.. now i must air the flat..
    phew..
    the boys got guts.
    :ø)

  • DAVID, thanks for clearing up my confusion about how Ellie’s essay ended up on Burn in such an unwieldy edit. I think what irritated me the most was the precious time I used up watching it.

    Regarding Ellie’s intent, in a sense I’d guess she was indeed poking fun at today’s TV reality show types of relationships. But the fact that she got caught in its trap herself confused the issue, not just personally but also as a photographer/producer. Her overly emotional reaction to our comments shows that her heart was on her sleeve rather than her tongue in her cheek. From the comments she made about expecting Zach show up here to back her up, it seems pretty obvious she was hoping that being published on Burn would bring him back into her life, even if it were just words posted on a computer screen. When he didn’t show up she felt abandoned all over again. And then she abandoned us, so to speak. This essay became more about her personal drama with Zach and less about her work as a photographer. At least that’s how I read it.

    Patricia

  • DAH and ALL Thought you might be interested in this.

    Peter Turnley…On the fringe of the Rio carnaval.

    http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2010/03/on-the-fringe-of-the-rio-carnaval.html

  • I got sucked in to the 4eyedmonsters podcasts
    ——————————————
    ha ha ..me too…

  • Erica

    i haven´t seen the podcasts..i have been spending too much time in the Ellie and Zach novella…but will look for a link (i know it´s been posted a number of times lately) and check it out..this would be the foureyedmonster thing?

    have a great day, EMCD

    David B..

    guts..hahahahaha…

  • Patrica

    i was literally with my button on the ¨x¨ to leave and saw your comment…you nailed it i think..now it will depend on Ellie what happens to this piece..and actually, interestingly, that makes Burn part of the piece itself..she either turns this around and stands by her man (not the hu-man) or sticks it under her bed like a box of old love letters while she licks her wounds. Come on Ellie, what´s it gonna be?

    Great post, Patrica!

    now BYE!
    k.

  • one more kathleen – yes that’s the link http://foureyedmonsters.com/ (thanks panos for posting) you watch the first 8 or so there and then you have to move to a new site…have fun! I did laundry during, multitask..

  • Peter Turnley?
    charges $2000 for a workshop in Istanbul? oh please….:(

  • hmm.. ok, now perhaps i’m a bit dense, or oldfashioned, or don’t really understand concepts.. or whatever.. but if i read (on the blog at least) “day ten: the custody battle” and then see no evidence of this in the photographs.. well, i dunno..

  • CATHY…

    i am so surprised i did not run into Peter during Rio carnaval….we are both pretty hard to miss in that crowd i would think…he definitely was not in the Sambadromo…no way i could have missed him there…he and i have shot side by side at everything from the fall of the Berlin Wall to temples in Thailand…i will email him and see where in the world he was hiding…

    cheers, david

  • PATRICIA…

    as you well know, i am from the “tight edit” school for my own work and for most others…however, in the case of Ellie , i can see how the “throw it all in” might be effective…BUT, not so good in this format of seeing each picture for x amount of time equally…i can imagine an installation on panels or whatever might be interesting…the whole thing viewed as a totality and in a few minutes and back and forth perusal, rather than in 20 minutes of one right after the other…you lose your reference points in this format…i would not see her personal involvement with Zach as being anything negative…it only shows her humanity….being a “photographer” does not imply being at some kind of distance as you of all people know…any mirroring of her personal life that can be reflected in her photography would be a plus…however, most viewers felt the work devoid of real emotional content…maybe the emotion was not so journalistic or obvious as we are used to seeing in photojournalism or in grab your attention net imagery, but is there to be discovered later after time….is there really a parameter for “when” the pictures have to be digested? in any case, Ellie has certainly generated some discussion….again, that is no small feat in and of itself….

  • Patricia; “in a sense I’d guess she was indeed poking fun at today’s TV reality show types of relationships”

    I think that Thomas B’s essay did that very well.

    Katie; welcome back!!!!

  • DAVID

    I did not see Ellie’s personal involvement with Zach as anything negative merely as a help in understanding her (to my way of thinking) overly emotional reaction to what she saw as our nasty comments. Of course I understand photographers getting personally involved in their projects: it’s the only way I seem to work. But it’s one thing to bring your heart to your work and quite another to wear your heart on your sleeve when fielding critiques. But we’re all human and that’s good. It’s just that we can learn from critiques if we can put a bit of distance between our personal and our professional feelings once our “baby” gets out into the world. I think Ellie missed an opportunity to grow as a photographer by prematurely opting out of the discussion. But that’s just my opinion.

    Patricia

  • Hmmmnn photographer meets an essay within a well trodden part of contemporary art practice, confusion reigns posts comment on burn ……..chuckle

  • PATRICIA…

    i agree completely and i thought it strange she would opt out and perhaps want to be taken off…but, since then, after an email from me, she has left another comment and i do not think we will have to take her off….

  • ROSS…

    the Thomas B essay and the Ellie Brown essay do have a lot in common…and got about the same kinds of response….Thomas B. of course kept his head held high and has since been a valuable contributor…i look forward to more work from him and from her…

  • Interesting concept, poor photography – and what happened to editing???!!!. Very un-DAH like. :) I could see it much stronger if each section was two-three photos max – ie we get it already.

    Anyway, I’m a big fan of Nikki S. Lee. She’s not a photographer per se, but a social actress. Her photographs are usually no great shakes either though usually suit the material very well and hilarious (Projects at least). Check her out if you never have. http://www.tonkonow.com/lee.html

  • No great shakes? Most of those photos there are pretty damn good, actually… Thanks for the link.

  • David; Thomas’ essay was more succinct…

  • I agree with Jared.

    In first look I thought I did not know Lee’s works but of course I know. For me this is next example how snapshot photography should looks like.

    If I imagine a capsule relationship essay I see mix of Woody Allen, “Lost in Translation” and Nan Goldin.

    Hard stuff isn’t it?
    Life is brutal.

  • CHARLES…

    i agree…142 photos in a row is just too much for the net…as i said earlier, i could see all of them on panels or in a certain type of installation working quite well seeing them almost as one “unit”….i edit very tight for myself and for those who ask….however, Ellie wanted to go with it this way, so i respected her wishes as i do with anyone who really insists that all of it is the “it”…we had not done a concept quite like this one before , so i went with it knowing full well the hammer would come down on both Ellie and yours truly!! hey, my head hurts from so many hammers anyway, what is one more?? Both Nikki Lee and Sig Harvey do the modern day Cindy Sherman very well…love em

  • the capsule relationship project reminds me of neil labute’s the shape of things….

    interesting that the project started on april 1, no?

  • interesting that the project started on april 1, no?…………….reading too much into the

  • David, I doubt if a tight essay edit would make a difference, and probably would have diluted things furtrher.

    On another note I may be able gto get a book dummy to you. I will skype you sometime in the next day/week or so…………….these 8 ich notebooks are pesky to type on

  • Imants

    Probably right. Probably reading too much into it. Here’s some more–i find it interesting that ellie on her blog and here continually talks about zach leaving, leaving her with the project. almost like the collaboration of the artists (the couple) produced a piece of art (baby) that ellie now has “custody” of. and then the project goes on burn and blogs and other places and people comment and then become part of the project itsel….and, well, maybe i just have too much time on my hands. but if there is any truth to this, then i would say it was a pretty successful art project–getting people to comment and so on….

  • David, In general (burn is your business), I don’t see why there should be any hard and fast rule to limit the number of photographs that can appear in an essay. If a story is best told in 142 photographs, then 142 photographs it should be. Of course I recognize that coming up with 20 compelling images is no mean feat and that it gets more and more difficult and unlikely as the number rises, but one shouldn’t preclude the possibility. Why can’t a photo essay more resemble the structure of a long short story, novella, or even a novel? Why can’t a theme be repeated with variations that bring home the author’s intent and explore the depth of what’s being depicted? Audience attention span? I never get why people who enjoy looking at photo essays can’t bear to spend more than 3 minutes doing it.

    I’d love to learn more about your thoughts on these issues. You take an assignment to shoot something as alive and complex as Rio. You apparently pick out themes or representative stories to illustrate a city or region or country–things such as the beach, the slums, the festivals, or the wealthy. I don’t know how many more you choose, but I know that however many that is, there are many more out there that tell a different aspect of the same story. All the themes of life: food, drink, religion, sexuality, education, medicine, sports, and on, and on, and on. Why does that story have to be limited to 15 to 30 images? If 100 compelling images exist and serve to further the story, why cut them? In NatGeo I understand. In burn, I don’t. Why not the length depend on the skill and insight of the storyteller? (yes, I know, you don’t really set any of those limits, not carved in stone anyway. My questions are mostly rhetorical;)

    And Imants, I get what you’re saying, but still have trouble imagining a piece of art that is not conceptual. Can you give an example?

  • MICHAEL…

    in general i agree with you…and the beauty of the net is that there are no artificial limits as are automatic in print…while i think it is unlikely that anyone could hold us for 142 pictures straight i would not preclude the possibility and in fact i did hit the publish button on Ellie’s 142 pictures but knowing full well this in and of itself would cause an uproar….the previous high was Bob Black with i think 60+ photographs for Bones……all of this is just as subjective as the length of a book or film or song…by the way, i do not have a 20 picture limit or any limit on the essays here…if someone comes along with an essay that can sustain itself for however many pictures, then we will see it…

    by the way, no photographs that i feel representative or strong from all those subjects in Rio that you mentioned will be left out of the book…but, coming up with 50 or more is just flat out hard for me…no cutting, just not enough…

    of course, as you may imagine, tomorrow i publish a single on Burn…just trying to keep you awake…

    hope to see you next week in new york…stop by please…

    cheers, david

  • David; Nobody radio station would play Bohemian Rhapsody because it was “too long”. Until a DJ did, and the rest is history…

  • IMANTS…

    i am very anxious to see your book….and yes we are overdue for a skype call…the only problem is that i am going to be crazy busy the rest of this week in Texas (a foreign country even for us)..can we hold off on skype til a week from today?? patience appreciated..

    cheers, david

  • Sure can I was off to a country town tomorrow as it was www world is more about silence there

  • David, I am curious of your experience with video in Rio. Did you give it a go? Any sound recording? I am still trying to master digital sound recording and finding it surprisingly tricky, and it tends to make me schizo often wishing I had my camera in hand when I am recording and occasionally vice versa. I imagine trying to add video into the mix might push me completely over the edge. I am thinking that trying to do and be too many things at once can seriously reduce the quality of everything … but many journalists are doing it. What think you?

  • ALL

    We have lost another icon of photography. Charles Moore, whose photos of the Civil Rights struggles in the U.S. still blaze forth with power and truth, died last week at age 79. Lens blog pays tribute to him and shows three of his most famous photos.

    http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/15/parting-5/

  • KATHLEEN,

    Thanks for asking…Still working on a final edit. I will “announce” new work on cathyscholl.com as soon as I’ve got a few gliches sorted out with iweb.

    At the moment I’m not happy with the way it handles spacing between images as well as a few other things. I was hoping it would be easier to customize but I will probably have to look elsewhere for a template.

    Guess I should ask…Does anyone have a recommendation for a website package?

  • YOUNG TOM…

    welcome back….nice to hear from you….

    i shot video for a tv commercial before i went to Rio, but did no video myself on the NG assignment…my son Bryan was making a film of me working in Rio for NGTV, so i was watching the whole process carefully , but not doing it….i was wired for sound most of the time, but sometimes he used on camera mike…he used a big HD Sony of some kind..giant…and when he could not get the big camera access and just wanted to appear a still photographer, he used the 5D….quality great on the 5D but unwieldy as a video camera and tough to focus….a great tripod only camera..anyway, he was forced to use it hand held several times and i guess everything came out ok..they love the film….

    the tv commercial i did involved me shooting both stills and video…my worst nightmare….i ended up shooting the whole thing in stills as i normally would and not thinking about video at all and then went back and did the whole thing over again in video..only thinking like a videographer…that seemed to work best for me…this idea of frame grabs would never work for me…i move totally different as a still photographer than if i am shooting the same scene on video…i imagine i could change the way i think a bit and maybe learn to move in a way that would make for good grabs but the increments of movement i make for stills would not work for video…too much fast movement and quarter of an inch recomp in a split second would make for jarring video….but, if i did not do that it would not be the same picture…anyway Young Tom, i am still trying to make up my mind on the so called multi media pieces..mixing still w video is after all an effect…maybe works sometimes , but i cannot see it becoming the be all end all for communication…personally i would rather just look at stills with good sound than the mix…or, just watch a film….

    your thoughts?

    CATHY…

    are you submitting any of your India work to Burn?? i would love to have a look before you put a link here….

    PATRICIA…

    thanks…much respect for Charles Moore…..never met the man, but loved much of his work….

    cheers, david

  • DAH,

    No hammers here! But it will certainly behoove her to learn how to edit in the future! People know how to fill in the gaps. I once shot a lo-budget film for a director friend of mine. Despite his vast knowledge of film, he was scared and not ready, and often kept us busy shooting the characters coming in and out of doors and walking down streets. Drove me crazy!

    Anyway, it’s great that you are publishing this kind of work here. Keeping things wide open.

    Did you update your M9 today? Have fun in Texas. Went once years ago when I was on a panel and had a blast.

    CP

  • DAH,

    Sure, I’ll definitely get in touch as soon as I’m ready. What do you mean by “have a look?”
    How do we do that?

  • David, I almost agree but I keep remembering Stephen Dupont’s piece he did for the Eugene Smith award we saw in Bangkok … it worked for me, especially two stories high on the rooftop. And the companion multimedia piece

  • That should have read …

    And the companion multimedia piece for Danny Wilcox’ Driftless book is really well done.

    Cathy, perhaps submit a link under submissions.

  • DAH. -coming to Spain in April with a quick stop in London…any chance for a cold beer??
    Always amigo. Just let me know when you are over.

  • YOUNG TOM…

    yes, that Stephen Dupont piece mixed stills and video very very well..and yes, Wilcox too…many good examples……but, again as an EFFECT,like using a long lens or double exposure, but not as a school….a tool…to used but not abused…thinking one MUST mix stills and video in order to catch the next “big wave” or just because it can be done easily now or required by newspapers now, is a mistake i think….learning to shoot video and to know how to sound capture is however a very good idea…..learning how to make strong stills is also a very good idea…

    CATHY…

    yes, as a Burn submission link is the easiest, clearest, safest….private email cd get lost…

    cheers, david

  • i know u wouldnt expect this from me..but i like it..Matt is a cool guy..:)

    http://www.mediastorm.com/0019.htm

  • just a quick quick note to say

    GOD DAMN GREAT! :))))…i just saw Thomas b’s essay last night here at burn…about everyday life….he posted a link under Ellie’s essay and i had missed it the first time when it was published here at Burn…probably because i was dealing with my brother’s heart attack then and i just regret i hadn’t written anything prior…but god damn is it wonderful!:)))

    Thomas B: i left a comment there last nigjht…

    ALL: have a look..it’s in the archives here:

    http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2009/11/thomas-bregulla-everyday/#comments

    GREAT JOB THOMAS….that essay made me soooooooo happy!!!

    hugs
    bob

    hugs
    bob

  • Regarding 5D MkII video, Canon just released a firmware update that looks very promising. Different frame rate options, AV priority, and better sound options. Personally, I too have had trouble changing between still photographer and videographer and audio engineer mentalities during the same shoot. Gonna have to get over that, I perceive.

  • Hi Everyone,

    I just wanted to let you know my book project on “Brooklyn” is currently being showcased in the latest issue of American Photo, March/April Issue.

    Best, Valery

  • Vallery…:)
    link?
    congratulations …

  • Valery, great series…I adore the pin up girls!

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Welcome ELLIE…I was away for few days…I was “cleaning” the winneries :)))

    This is for my new BURNIAN …ELLIE…
    “An open mind leaves a chance for someone to drop a worthwhile thought in it”
    I know that you have an open mind and an open heart…therefore …
    WE LOVE YOU !!!

    P.S Please … BURN around …we are crazy, we fart ,we curse ,we argue a lot BUT we hug, we kiss and tell
    and we learn a lot…cause we are all BURNING inside …

    PEACE LOVE PHOTOGRAPHY

  • DAH, thoughts on multimedia… I’ll take that challenge!

    But first I should introduce myself as a longtime reader and a rare poster. I’ve enjoyed Burn immensely from the outside, now it’s time to jump in. So… hello!

    Last year at the EAW, multimedia was pretty heavy on the plate, and I heard more than once the mediastorm dogma that “if you fight technology, you will always lose”.

    I don’t think photography has to be a race. To me, multimedia isn’t about anything other than creating your own context for your work – taking the distribution process into your own hands, the same as making a book, putting together an exhibition, writing your own story to accompany the photos, or publishing a web photo essay, etc. Multimedia came into prominence (and is still coming) as the other avenues like publishing houses, magazines, etc. were getting tighter. Multimedia gives the photographer power over their own work, which is why some people really dig it I guess. But guess what, so do self-published books, exhibitions, and a whole slew of other things. There has always been the option of creating your own context, however only now that publications can save a dime by turning their photographers into photographers and videographers, or photo editors into photo editors and multimedia producers have parts of the industry jumped on it. This may very well become the norm for joe shmoe, but if you don’t want to run in those circles, there are other avenues to get work out into the world. Whose making any money off of multimedia anyways? Not too many little people I imagine. (now where I do see it as interesting is where photographers, such as Torgovnik or Bleasdale, use multimedia as a part of a multi-platformed release of material to hit a wide audience – for me, the books do their project’s more justice, but the MM pieces certainly serve a purpose too).

    Back to the line
    “if you fight technology, you will always lose”

    Of course mediastorm will push multimedia, and of course Canon and Nikon will keep pushing their product that way (don’t get me started on the $3000 disposable-after-2-year cameras), but mediastorm-style multimedia has been around for a while (Nick Nichols Mega-transect, circa 2001), and the world has continued to spin.

    Besides, I can hardly sit through them. hehehe.

  • and of course Canon and Nikon will keep pushing their product that way (don’t get me started on the $3000 disposable-after-2-year cameras),
    ————————————————————
    he he…truth to be told..Tell it like it is my man…
    big hug

  • disposable-after-2-year cameras),
    ———————————-
    hey u forgot the most important..the plastic lenses…;(

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Welcome RYAN …jump in as much as you want…
    readers, posters, sponsors…jump in …BURN is the place to BE !!!

  • a civilian-mass audience

    BOBB…wish you the best for your family…may the spirits of health be with you…

    VICKY…thank you for being around…my babie KATIE FONSECA is a Street fighter…big heart …sharp eye…
    Sword tongue…BUT you are another fiesty,colorful…BURNIAN
    keep it up

    LASSAL,
    Speechless

    VALERY,
    you …BURNIAN

    WHAT NOT TO LOVE…

    P.S SPACECOWBOY…can you see ..CHARLES MOORE is coming…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    JIM POWERS …we miss you…hope you are ok…
    I hope you will drink …cold beer with MR.HARVEY…
    just one thing…I have to say

    VIVA,VIVA,VIVA

  • Hey, Ryan!

    Welcome..so glad you stopped lurking and started writing..good-o!

    Civilian!

    Yes, i loved Vicky´s spirit also..i still owe her a reply but am sleep-deprived and practically hallucinatory..is that a cappuccino in front of me or a ham sandwich? If i tried serving up a good response to her right now it would come out as total jibberish. Not the first time that´s happened, God knows, but i need a few more brain cells to get back in the ring with Ms. Slater (and Vicky, if you´re listening, there´s something about the Ms in Ms Slater that has a nice ring..as opposed to Ms. EMCD or Ms Lay-Dorsey or Ms Audrey, Wendy or most of the other Ms´s here. So, no offense..was being polite).

    Civilian you may not be a Ms. or a Miss or a Mrs (well i know DAH thinks you are but i am convinced you´re a Mister or Mr. but of all you are the one i always MISS the most so there. :))

    Ok…needing nap..be back later providing my cable company is still serving up internet in my neck of the woods..never ever take internet connectivity for granted. Not me, nope..i have an altar setup in my house to the pagan internet deities..i make sure to leave sacrifices like cheeze-whiz, bits of Costa Rican currency, an idle phone cable, a new mouse pad, photos of better routers, a copy of my cancelled cable bill, potential match.com deity dates..but that deity(ies) are fickle, feisty foes leaving me hi and dry with nary a fair-thee-well to explain their displeasure.

    This is rediculous. I need some caffiene. And failing that, a freaking nap.

    Bye Civi of my heart..

    Ur katie

  • Thank you CIVI, we’ve all been remiss for not welcoming Ryan and Ellie
    properly http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=8_UkluxB7gc#t=36

    Grapes, garlic and good times

  • a civilian-mass audience

    TO ALL MY BURNIANS…especially for those who are submitting :)))

    “What is the quality of your intent?

    Certain people have a way of saying things that shake us at the core. Even when the words do not seem harsh or offensive, the impact is shattering. What we could be experiencing is the intent behind the words. When we intend to do good, we do. When we intend to do harm, it happens. What each of us must come to realize is that our intent always comes through. We cannot sugarcoat the feelings in our heart of hearts. The emotion is the energy that motivates. We cannot ignore what we really want to create. We should be honest and do it the way we feel it. What we owe to ourselves and everyone around is to examine the reasons of our true intent.
    Thurgood Marshall

    KATIE…I don’t like bye’s …I LOVE HELLO’S …Civilians never forget …what goes around …comes around
    we MISS you …but I know you are always BURNING !!!

    POMARA…hey mate…is the BURN BAG ready ???
    I want mine with BBQ sauce

    I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

  • As DAH suspected in his post, the batterie of my car went down. The fridge is empty, lots of mail on the table, plenty of dirty clothes in my bag and clouds over Germany. I am back home after 4 weeks in India.

    It was a trip of a lifetime that ripped my heart into pieces and now I get the Blues.
    Thinking of all the wonderful people I met in India, thinking of all the experinces. Thinking of what next?

    DAH, is there a chance to talk to you on skype in the coming week? I would very much appreciate it.

    The good thing about being back home is that I have some more time to look at burn again! Missed everyone on this forum a lot and esspecially you Civi!

    Off to cycle down to my garden and see if any flowers are out.

    Best
    Reimar

  • DAVID, ANTON,

    if I have a question about EFP payment to who I should send e-mail?

    David, yours e-mails not working or are full.

    Marcin

  • hey marcin,

    you can send to me: anton@burnmagazine.org
    or david: david@burnmagazine.org

    i will mostprobably be able to help you more quickly because david is traveling to texas now

    cheers
    a

  • Thanks Anton, just send the e-mail.

  • someone that tries to turn ugliness into..something else

    http://vasmou.com/main.html?c=1&p=1

  • Mental madness, this is making me crazy..any idea who I am thinking of?

    What’s the name of the photographer who…

    took images of young (possibly but not for certain Soviet) gymnasts and military kids, in color? Contemporary. Some of the work is surreal in the way that Loretta Lux can be surreal, with sort of a Chelbin feel but more dramatic and also a lot of interiors, at least for the gymnasts. Really good with using multiples / mass numbers but also the solo subject. Fine art /documentary, would be shown in a gallery, printed large. Young children, and amazing uniforms…

    The work was shown in a gallery I can’t remember the name of either, in nyc, around 24th st and 7th ave? You had to get buzzed in, and the owner man has a loft space above the gallery where he continued to work while I looked around. beautiful space, lots of wood upstairs. On the South side of the street, on the street, not avenue. Smaller gallery but seemed very ‘high-brow’, not in the normal circuit of openings (for me anyway), this was a couple of years ago. Solo show.

    There have been some helpful ideas so far from the folks over at LS, but this is who it is NOT:

    Rafal Milach, Carl de Keyzer, Tereza Vlčková, Simon Roberts, Sergei Bratkov, Philippe Chancel, Rachel Papo, Oded Balilty

  • Another link for those of you thinking of publishing a photo-book…
    This one is about the handmade, limited edition version…
    Mary Virginia Swanson interviews Sean Perry…

    http://www.transitorybook.com/photoeye.pdf

  • Panos…
    Thanks for promoting the http://foureyedmonsters.com
    Just finished watching the 13 episodes…
    Another truly inspiring work I found out about the last couple of days through links posted in here… thanks :))

  • Thodoris..
    im about to email those kids..they live in brooklyn..i hope i can meet them..
    i watched that thing for a 3rd time now..music is AMAZING

  • To me it’s really simple that life should be lived on the edge of life
    you have to exercise rebellion
    to refuse to tape yourself to rules
    to refuse your own success
    to refuse to repeat yourself
    to see every day, every year, every idea as a true challenge
    and then you’re going to live your life on a tight rope

    (Philippe Petit, the man on wire)

  • just getting back to Burn…

    Panos and Vicky…..a big THANKS! oh and Civi how could I forget! never

    Best, Valery

  • Valery – just saw – that’s great, congrats!

  • “To refuse to deny your own success” is probably what he meant or maybe even said… Anyways, check out the documentary Man on Wire if you haven’t! Inspiring stuff.

  • Congratulations Valery! Truly great!

  • REIMAR,

    Welcome back. I’m suffering from the same “disease” as you! Post-India blues :))
    I’m going to PM you to discuss in case you don’t see me here.

    DAH and TOM H.
    Thanks. I will submit a link or links asap.

  • VALERY
    bravo!!!!!
    xox

  • Interesting experience I had yesterday regarding my essay on the gay married couple, one that helped me see just how important it is to do this work.

    I was in contact with a copyright company trying to get permission to use a piece of music that Scott and Phil had used as accompaniment to a duet they were practicing for church. I was thinking of using the mp3 digital recording I’d made of them singing as a background for my submission to Burn. On Monday I’d filled out and sent in the necessary forms on the copyright company’s website. On Tuesday I received an email from the woman who handles permissions requesting more info because she said I would also need a Digital Streaming license in addition to the Master and Mechanical licenses I’d already applied for. She then said she’d need to see my photos so the publisher of the CD could check to be sure it was something they could approve.

    When I told her the essay was about a gay married couple, she said, “Oh. Well, your request might well be denied.”

    “Because it’s about gays?”, I asked.

    “Yes,” she admitted.

    I then asked where her company was located. “Nashville, Tennessee,” she replied.

    I said, “Well, I guess things are a bit different down there from here in Detroit.”

    Guess I shouldn’t have been surprised since the oufit that had published the music was gospel church-related. It still really pissed me off. But it also validated my reason for doing this project in the first place. Oh yes, homophobia is alive and well in the U.S. of A. I sure hope my project will help folks who fear gays and gay marriage to see that they’re just like everyone else. As my title says, “Just Another Married Couple.”

    By the way, I decided not to jump through their hoops at the copyright office. Instead of music to accompany the essay, I’m using a voiceover from a digital recording I made of Phil and Scott talking about marriage. More appropriate choice anyway, just harder to manage. After spending a full eight hours on it today, I am seeing the challenge of creating multimedia, even just stills and audio. But it’s a challenge that is stretching me and that is good.

    Patricia

  • Bjarte

    I dunno, sounds like a recipe for a life of angst and stress.

    I’m hoping to find inner peace.

  • Patricia

    I was wondering how the edit was coming. Can’t wait to see what you’ve done.

    I’m not surprised about the gospel music thing. A huge hot potato you’ve handed them there, permission from them would imply approval. The religious right is a very scary force.

  • PATRICIA

    Ugly, backwards and very sad thinking on the part of that music company..to think your friends were practicing the duet to demonstrate their faith in a house of worship..yet these people are more godly than God i suppose..makes me sick..

    Glad to hear you are acquiring new skills as a result though..so take THAT, stupid hypocritical GOSPEL music company..grr…

    VALERY

    I was reading back and saw your news..i always loved your work..that shot of those young people in the kids´ wading pool always cracked me up..still does..Congratulations!

    VICKY

    First of all, mea culpa for not getting back to you before this. I´ve had one broken machine after another around the house and i feel like Ms. Fix-it..one hand weilding a screw driver and the other the telephone calling anyone i can think of for help. But i wanted to answer you to the extent i can manage right this minute..

    Ok..your work does bring something new-ish and interesting to the table..digital pin-hole self-portraits, further softened by movement on your part during the exposure. This was new to me though historically the soft fuzzy look has been in and out of style since the invention of the camera. And granted, art that is created merely for the sake of beauty and nothing else has its place (though not in my house).

    So, while your photos were beautiful. While they would look lovely on a wall, their role is pure decoration. Is that ok? Absolutely! If that´s what you were trying to achieve i´d say you were very successful. And perhaps what you were thinking is that suggestion of the physical allows the individual viewer to use their imagination to define what can´t be known. Maybe to you that is a more personal experience. But to me, with regard to a self-portrait, that is a cop-out. As a woman i know we are pretty much all ambivalent about our bodies. Maybe you aren´t. If not you are the only woman i know who isn´t. I would really have loved to see you take the opportunity to layer in some definition, some suggestion of how/what you think about yourself, give us some clues, tell us some stories, share a little of your experience. Rather than simply hide behind a lot of mush. BUT..this was my personal wish for the project. Your goals were clearly something else and you made it happen your way. And it wasn´t easy, that i can tell you. Self-portraiture is hard, hard.

    You do bring up an interesting point about portraiture in general and that is that you want people to be amazed at their own personal beauty in spite of the defects. I really can´t relate to that since i am not a portrait photographer (Gordon, jump in here anytime!). I take street portraits but i really don´t give a shit if the person finds him or herself amazing or beautiful in my work. I want to bypass all that stuff totally. If i find them interesting enough to shoot that´s my idea of beauty. If they are bland and say nothing to me chances are i won´t shoot them. They have to get under my skin, they have to make me look twice..whatever it is they have within that is different has to call out to me. So, really, after all is said and done, your approach to photography is just way different than mine. That´s why we didn´t get along from the get-go. But that´s fair and i respect you for your approach totally. It just isn´t mine.

    So, i am guessing this will be the end of this discussion..you did your art your way. And that´s great. I wish you had gone further. That´s just me. Thanks for your replies and i hope to see you stick around Burn..

    Best
    Kathleen

  • PATRICIA

    Ugly, backwards and very sad thinking on the part of that music company..to think your friends were practicing the duet to demonstrate their faith in a house of worship..yet these people are more godly than God i suppose..makes me sick..

    Glad to hear you are acquiring new skills as a result though..so take THAT, stupid hypocritical GOSPEL music company..grr…

    VALERY

    I was reading back and saw your news..i always loved your work..that shot of those young people in the kids´ wading pool always cracked me up..still does..Congratulations!

    VICKY

    First of all, mea culpa for not getting back to you before this. I´ve had one broken machine after another around the house and i feel like Ms. Fix-it..one hand weilding a screw driver and the other the telephone calling anyone i can think of for help. But i wanted to answer you to the extent i can manage right this minute..

    Ok..your work does bring something new-ish and interesting to the table..digital pin-hole self-portraits, further softened by movement on your part during the exposure. This was new to me though historically the soft fuzzy look has been in and out of style since the invention of the camera. And granted, art that is created merely for the sake of beauty and nothing else has its place (though not in my house).

    So, while your photos were beautiful. While they would look lovely on a wall, their role is pure decoration. Is that ok? Absolutely! If that´s what you were trying to achieve i´d say you were very successful. And perhaps what you were thinking is that suggestion of the physical allows the individual viewer to use their imagination to define what can´t be known. Maybe to you that is a more personal experience. But to me, with regard to a self-portrait, that is a cop-out. As a woman i know we are pretty much all ambivalent about our bodies. Maybe you aren´t. If not you are the only woman i know who isn´t. I would really have loved to see you take the opportunity to layer in some definition, some suggestion of how/what you think about yourself, give us some clues, tell us some stories, share a little of your experience. Rather than simply hide behind a lot of mush. BUT..this was my personal wish for the project. Your goals were clearly something else and you made it happen your way. And it wasn´t easy, that i can tell you. Self-portraiture is hard, hard.

    You do bring up an interesting point about portraiture in general and that is that you want people to be amazed at their own personal beauty in spite of the defects. I really can´t relate to that since i am not a portrait photographer (Gordon, jump in here anytime!). I take street portraits but i really don´t give a shit if the person finds him or herself amazing or beautiful in my work. I want to bypass all that stuff totally. If i find them interesting enough to shoot that´s my idea of beauty. If they are bland and say nothing to me chances are i won´t shoot them. They have to get under my skin, they have to make me look twice..whatever it is they have within that is different has to call out to me. So, really, after all is said and done, your approach to photography is just way different than mine. That´s why we didn´t get along from the get-go. But that´s fair and i respect you for your approach totally. It just isn´t mine.

    So, i am guessing this will be the end of this discussion..you did your art your way. And that´s great. I wish you had gone further. That´s just me. Thanks for your replies and i hope to see you stick around Burn..

    Best
    Kathleen

  • Hello Civi, thank you, that’s kind of you :)

    Hi Kathleen, first I’d like to say sorry, I over reacted to your comment, it was an instant reaction without doing much thinking…I need to learn to walk away for a while.

    Anyway, as I said before probably, the pinholes were started as a pinhole experiment, if i had a model it would have been a helluva lot easier and quicker. It was the aesthetics that appealed not some self discovery, elements of that came in as a byproduct.
    I know some people get more than just a pretty picture from them in the same way that an abstract canvas with a few simple strokes of colour can make your heart clench and bring out emotions without you understanding why.
    I feel kind of done with these now, I’ve tried it, I got this far, to progress would mean using a model and investing way too much time when there’s so much else I want to do…maybe I’ll go back to it all later, maybe.

    With the portraits, yes I want them to see their own beauty and somehow see there are no defects, I’m trying to get as close to who they are as I can, it’s what I’m thinking about all the time, looking at people in the street, seeing angles, light, fabric, that’s the drug for me……but I’m not doing documentary so I’m looking differently to how you do on the street and one of the challenges I have is trying to bring out the person that’s there, up close, someone just the same but different, even when I can look and not have them get under my skin.
    Maybe if I was photographing paid models I wouldn’t feel so sympathetic and protective but I feel incredibly grateful when people sit for me and am totally in love them while I’m taking them (corny i know but it really is a gift they’re giving) even if half an hour later I’m wishing they’d all go out and give me some space :)

    Anyway, I really do appreciate you taking the time to think about it, Kathleen, I’m more instinctive than thinking and I’d like to get better at it, to be able to explain what I don’t yet understand, this all helps.

    Vicky

  • Patricia:
    “homophobia is alive and well in the U.S. of A”

    The other day I saw a docu about TPP, I wasn’t aware of the phenomena.. scary indeed! But it’s not an US thing, homophobia is the basis of power… all around the world..

    Looking forward to see your work!

  • But it’s not an US thing, homophobia is the basis of power… all around the world..
    ——————————————–
    unfortunately..homophobia is a disease” that has no borders…

    Patricia..go on..keep fighting…”I have a dream…”

  • To be fair to the hicks, both the old and new testaments of the bible are quite clear in their denunciations of homosexuality so I think it’s incorrect to accuse them of hypocrisy. In order to be a Christian, Jew, or Muslim and think it’s okay to be gay, one has to be adept at doublethink, the act of still being able to function while holding two contradictory beliefs in the mind at the same time and accepting both of them as true. Some, of course, argue that that ability is the mark of a first rate mind. If so, then I, apparently, lack a first rate mind, because the way I see it, the anti-homosexuality tracts in the bible clearly demonstrate that either homosexuality is wrong and immoral or the bible is. That’s a bit of an overstatement, I know, but I think the general point is valid–the general point being that the bible is immoral. I’ve never understood how people who are condemned by it to death in this life and eternal torture in some twisted fantasy afterlife can believe in the religions that wish those horrible things upon them, but I suppose the ability to doublethink is a big part of being human.

    Patricia, regarding audio, Thomas Bregulla once posted a link to a great site with lots of creative commons licensed music. I don’t have the link handy right now, but maybe Thomas or someone else could provide it. Might be worth taking a look.

  • Michael..was Jesus immoral by saving the “immoral prostitute” from stoning?
    i think he said something like:..go ahead whoever has no sins throw the first stone…

    laughing..of course..i’m not saying that prostitution is a sin..by no means…Same with homosexuality…
    Illegal (for a given society) does not make it a sin…
    Why homosexuality is anti christian? When did Jesus criticized homosexuals?
    Ahh the bible?..the bible is a book written by humans…the Bible can say whatever it wants,,and prosecutes whoever it wants…Jesus never wrote any bible…Jesus never “accused” anyone except from the greedy…
    He was always close to the poor and the misunderstood…Was it a prostitute that washed his feet?
    Since when Spirituality has anything to do with sexual preferences???????

  • either homosexuality is wrong and immoral or the bible is.
    —————————————————–
    well the way u put it ..of course the “institution” is wrong…and their propaganda book(s)..
    think of spanish Inquisition and all its victims…Hitler later did the same:”you’re a black, a jew, a woman, a homo…concentration camp..:(…KKK did the same in America…big crosses..Christian crosses and then the
    “STRANGE FRUITS” hanging from the trees..

  • and to give you the size of hypocrisy….let me tell u a quick story..
    when i was young around 19..i needed to work ..so i got a job as a cashier in a cinema theater..
    It was a porn cinema theater..exclusively porn..no other movies… soon i realized that he building that was rented by the business owner was CHURCH property…yes the building owned by the Orthodox Church…but the rent was really expensive…and the church people were fine with it..because the money was good..all that of course before the dvd/home theaters and before the laptops/internet/free porn explosion..back then You had to go to a movie theater to watch porn..and it was very profitable…Ask the Church…
    now thats hypocrisy…

  • Panos, I’m not sure if you read and clearly understood what I wrote or jumped to incorrect conclusions. I don’t think our opinions about morality in this matter differ. As for biblical scholarship, I’ve done a bit and without going too deep into it, it’s fair to say that the Jesus character in the bible said all kinds of things, some of which people like you and I consider to be very moral, some of which we don’t. Point is, as moral references go, it’s not something anyone can depend on. Lesser path Buddhism is much better, though I guess I’m more of a Taoist type.

  • Michael.. no no,…nothing personal… I actually thank u..i just grabbed the opportunity to scream about all this injustice… and all those institutional games…my comments were not directed to you of course…
    it was just a scream..
    big hug

  • Erica, Lassal, Wendy, thanks for your support

    Kathleen, funny! thanks

    very encouraging, all :-)

    Best to all of you, Valery

  • VALERY

    I’m also sending late but most sincere congrats!!!

    Patricia

  • Kathleen, “people to be amazed at their own personal beauty in spite of the defects”

    Happy to jump in here.
    I wouldn’t put it exactly that way, but loosly speaking that is true. It is not about vanity. It is about self-image and the dis-comfort we all feel with our physical form. Over and over I hear, “I just want you to know that I take a terrible picture”, over and over, I smile and say “gee, no-one has ever told me that before”. Over and over I hear, “I’d rather go to the dentist than have my picture taken.”

    Yes, in my biz, it is about making people look their best. We use our photographic skills to find the best lighting, pose, and point of view. And we use our inter-personal skills to help the subject relax, drop their guard, and coax the expression from them that we want.

    A portrait can only reveal a tiny piece of the spectrum of who people are. The peice that I am paid to reveal is the idealized one. When I say it is idealized, I don’t mean it is fake or artificial, it is the subject at their best. http://www.pbase.com/glafleur/image/112296507

    More later, gotta go get Brian ready for his day.

  • Interesting outcome, Patricia — Nashville is the church-music publishing capital of the world. But I would rather hear the voices of your subjects, or your voice, than any canned MP3 of music. So I think you won this round.

    Michael, as for the Bible being “quite clear” on the issue of homosexuality, you are grasping. Jesus is silent on the topic, and Christianity and biblical literalism are two different things. Not all Christian churches are dogmatic; nor do all Christian denominations condemn homosexuality. Christianity is large and complex and not easily reduced to a couple of obscure Bible verses.

  • PRESTON

    Yes, Scott and Phil sharing their thoughts is definitely more interesting and insightful than a piece of music, but just to clarify: I was not going to use a “canned mp3” but rather Scott and Phil singing a duet that I had recorded. And I was considering using voiceovers within the context of that duet. But now it will simply be voice. Hopefully that will work for viewers of the essay.

    Regarding your addition to the discussion of biblical references to homosexuality, I remember once hearing of a minister’s sermon on Jesus’ words on homosexuality. She remained silent for five minutes. I know that Scott and Phil are active members of their Christian church and see no conflict in their beliefs and those of the Bible. They only experience problems in how some Christians use that book to validate their pre-existing prejudices. Church, as anything, can be used to benefit or to harm. The way Scott and Phil live their religion definitely benefits the world around them. They are the real deal.

    Patricia

  • Patricia,

    You can use them singing the song, no copyright issue there. Especially if they were singing it on their own, practicing it, etc, without direction from you… That’s just reportage plain and simple.

    You would need rights to use the studio-recorded original version, and they would need to get rights if they were doing it commercially, but anyone can sing a song and anyone can record it.

  • Jared..i agree….totally..i dont see any reason why not..there is no laws broken in that case..

  • …get permission to use a piece of music that Scott and Phil had used as accompaniment to a duet they were practicing for church. I was thinking of using the mp3 digital recording I’d made of them singing as a background…
    ————————————————

    live music…open church…recording….no record company involved…its a voice docu….lets say patricia recorded me singing with my guitar…what copyright? what permission? what a small crooked medieval gospel business has to do with that? YouTube would have been shut down long long time ago then…

  • u should only care about what Scott & Phil thinks about it (singing skills )going public..:)..no one else imo..

  • Thanks Patricia, your new project sounds like a good one and goes well with you and your work, looking forward to seeing it.

    Best, Valery

  • Christianity is large and complex and not easily reduced to a couple of obscure Bible verses.

    Don’t think I did that. Just pointing out that the bible is not a good place to look for consistent moral guidance. I’m pretty sure I’m not the first one to notice that. One can easily provide a bucket-load of quotes to back it up. Personally, I don’t find that a particularly interesting exercise.

    Yes Patricia, I think the problem in the new testament came more from Paul, but whatever. It’s not only people with idiotic beliefs who use those books to validate their pre-existing prejudices. Or to invalidate the pre-existing prejudices of others. Personally, I see no point in playing that game. Your mileage may vary.

    Sorry–got into that way too deep. Just meant to point out the folk at the publishing company weren’t necessarily being hypocritical, which would be the case if they claimed to believe one thing and did another. Though it does seem that those who are loudest in their homophobia always get caught soliciting male prostitutes in public bathrooms. So I wouldn’t be surprised if they prove to be hypocrites. But again, whatever. I didn’t mean to imply they weren’t ignorant and wrongheaded, however fervent they may be in their beliefs.

    I wish you well with your project and sincerely hope it helps.

  • Thanks, everybody, for weighing in on this, both ethically and legally.

    Regarding the ethics of the copyright possibly being denied — it had not yet been denied, by the way, just brought into question by the woman in the office — I was not implying that the church-music publisher was hypocritical if he/she denied my request because my subjects were a gay married couple. I just said I shouldn’t have been surprised since homophobia is so prevalent in our society, especially in religious circles.

    Regarding the legal issue, the orchestration from the CD shows up clearly on my recording so I see it as a situation where I’d need permission to use that music publicly. And I recorded the duet not in church (a public place) but in Scott and Phil’s kitchen as they were practicing to the CD. Besides, it’s my understanding that we need to either get official permission or use royalty-free music here on Burn, or in any such context. Seems to me we had that discussion early in Burn’s history.

    Anyway I feel fine with things as they are. I think the voiceover will do the deal.

    Patricia

  • A CAUTIONARY TALE.
    So I went out last week to shoot a couple of bands. Nothing new in that, been doing it years. And there lies the danger…Was being way too cocky, thinking I was infallible. Decided to shoot 50, 800 and 3200 speed films on the same two cameras ..with the same basic flash system..swapping the flash, and lenses, between cameras during the shooting(in the dark, with a little torch). Was strutting around like an idiot..Look at me and my Leicas..move over digital boy…..COCKED THE WHOLE LOT UP!
    50asa…madly overexposed 3200 madly underexposed…only the 800 color neg came out useable in any way. Now I have people asking to see the shots….oops :)
    Funnily enough its probably the best thing to happen to me photographically this year. Knocked a bit of sense back into me. Its always about the pictures, not some stupid image fantasy. A lesson in humility. I started believing I KNEW IT ALL..and it kicked me in the ass. Lesson learned.

    Peace

    john

  • Preston…

    Did you just write “…Not all Christian churches are dogmatic…”?
    Sorry man, but by making such statements you’re automatically disqualified to judge other people’s knowledge on the subject… “Dogma” means belief without a proof, and all Christian churches—scratch that, all religions in general—are based on it. The only way to take dogma out of religion is by providing proof of the existence of god—which then would validate any of the supposed holy books as the actual word of god… until then…

  • John.. that’s my nightmare.. feel for you..

  • John…;)
    reminds me of my cocky ass self..three years ago..
    I was working for Power106 ..hip hop station..i had to photograph LUDA (Ludacris) the rapper ..u know..
    i will shoot only with Leica M7 i declared..im the Man…but i will bring with me a little piece of shit nikon D50..u know..that cheapo digi…just in case…
    4 rolls of film later and i had nothing…but that piece of crap saved me..i shot 10 frames and they used 9 photos…i know how it feels to be the Man…

  • Thodoris, dogma here means the set of prescribed beliefs one must adhere to in order to be a member of the church. The Roman Catholic Church, for example, is very clear about what it believes and doesn’t believe, and the faithful are required to adhere to the dogma (and therefore to church authority). If you don’t believe in the infallibility of the pope, for instance, you’re not really a Roman Catholic. Not all Christian denominations are built around an authoritative set of beliefs (dogma).

  • What I love about Burnians like John and Panos is their willingness to say, “Hey, I screwed up.” Sure helps us relative beginners. Especially timely for me now as I try to put together my first-ever multimedia essay. So if I try something new and screw up, the world won’t come to an end. Right?

    Thanks for sharing, fellas.

    Patricia

  • My screw ups in the film days were forgetting to put film in a manual camera and only realizing it when the counter clicked over to 38.

  • So if I try something new and screw up, the world won’t come to an end. Right?
    ———————————————————————-
    nope..;)

  • Err, talking about screwing up.. maybe soebody here can help me: have exposed a few rolls of delta 3200 at 1600.. the camera stops there, can’t set it to 3200.. so I thought I compensate by adjusting the EI to -1.. and now I’m not sure if I’ve exposed the darned rolls at 3200 asa and just develop them normally, or if I’ve pulled them to 800 asa?? Help anyone?

  • Eva ..no worries…the Delta is a fake 3200..its actually an 800 disguised as…

  • negative is forgiving…slides is the “mess”…

  • eva,

    from the info you provided, it sounds like you did everything right – process it at 3200

    but like Panos said, the film has an actual slower rating, so if you don’t need the speed, try it out at 1600 (remember to tell the lab though!).

  • how’s this for a screw-up.

    I lost of of my rolls of film from Tibet. After going through all my contacts, I knew there was a roll missing. Annoying, but not so bad.

    2 years later I give some excess film to a friend who was going on vacation. She comes back, processes the film and lo and behold, there is my roll from Tibet, double-exposed over her photos from Lisbon.

    I blame the XPan for not tucking the leader in, but man I felt bad about that one.

  • John G – excellent story and laughing out loud (WITH you if you know what I mean…)

  • a civilian-mass audience

    the older I get…one I have to say…
    that I know …nothing…

    civi…Viva JOHNG…

    LOVE YOU BURNIANS

  • a civilian-mass audience

    MR.HARVEY …is a survivor…

    We are sending virtual hugs and silent…inspiration…and…

    we are drinking to your and to our Vision

  • Kathleen

    Just to finish my thought from this morning concerning “people to be amazed at their own personal beauty in spite of the defects”

    This is not usually the motivation for having a portrait taken, but it is often one of the reactions I get when people see the results. It is a relief, and an affirmation that the particular body/face they were given for this lifetime is OK, even beautiful.

    It is popular and OK these days for pregnant women to have portraits, particularly nude portraits, made, thanks to Annie Leibowitz’s portrait of a nude pregnant Demi Moore on the cover of Vanity Fair a few years ago. One pregnant woman I photographed last year,upon seeing her photographs, burst into tears, hugged me, and told me she had never seen herself as beautiful before.

    Self portraits are indeed tough. Fuzzy or not, I think Vicki was very brave to share them here. It is an affirmation of her own body, which I applaud.

  • and told me she had never seen herself as beautiful before.
    ———————————————————
    hormone imbalance maybe..;)

  • panathinaikos (greek team) loses from standard lieges (belgian team)..1-0
    now thats a “soccer imbalance”…pure luck at its best…unbelievable…
    when pure LUCK prevails..unfair…
    well ..it happens…shit happens…

  • Panos, Ryan, thanks.. will process it as 3200 then.. negatives are indeed forgiving, but underexposed stuff is harder to print…

    Ryan, know something about double exposed films..

  • If in doubt about Delta 3200 development time, it’s always better to err on the over than the under development… it’s a low contrast film by nature, so you won’t get blown out highlights that easily—if that’s what you’re afraid of… of course the actual contrast of the scene is a major factor too…

    As for mishaps, I recently wanted to develop some TX400 from last summer and after finding out that my last two packs of D76 were oxidized (first time this happened to me, the powder had turned very dark brown) I decided—against my better judgment—to use the times for Rodinal 1+50 from the Massive Dev Chart (http://www.digitaltruth.com) without testing them (to my defense they are usually very close) and ended up with some *very* overcooked films… well, live and learn…

  • The recommended meter setting for DELTA 3200 Professional is EI 3200/36, but good image quality can also be obtained at meter settings from EI 400/27 to EI 6400/39. It can be used in all types of lighting.
    DELTA 3200 Professional is particularly recommended for exposing in the range EI 1600/33 to EI 6400/39. It can be exposed at ratings up to EI 25000/45, but it is important to make test exposures first to ensure the results will be suitable for the intended purpose.

    DELTA 3200 Professional has an ISO speed rating of ISO 1000/31o (1000ASA, 31DIN) to daylight. The ISO speed rating was measured using ILFORD ID-11 developer at 20°C/68oF with intermittent agitation in a spiral tank.

    It should be noted that the exposure index (EI) range recommended for DELTA 3200 Professional is based on a practical evaluation of film speed and is not based on foot speed, as is the ISO standard.

  • Preston…

    Even with your chosen definition of dogma, all Christian denominations (even the non-Denominational Churches) are dogma based. Each of their followers (if they are devout) are taught to behave—and respond to others’ behavior—in a certain way, following a set of guidelines which define what is a Christian behavior and what isn’t… what is “good” and what is “bad”, what is “moral” and what is “immoral”, and so on and so forth… for example, one of the most fundamentally positive instructions “love thy neighbor as thyself”, when read by a true believer as the word of god, it automatically becomes (for him/her) a dogma—”an authoritative set of beliefs” as per the definition you provided… and let’s not even go to the dogmata that deal with the origin of the holy scripts, the divinity of Christ, the nature of the holy spirit, etc, etc, which fall under the definition of dogma that all the dictionaries I have at hand agree to be the actual meaning of the word…

    To be clear… I’m not trying to tell you (or anyone else) what to believe and what not… that’s your choice… but let’s not kid ourselves… Dogma is in the heart of all religions, and all Christian denominations are no exception.

    Good night…

  • Help Please: A Conversation with Members of the Photo League – AIPAD

    I will not be in NYC for this talk http://www.aipad.com/photoshow/new-york and I am disappointed, as it will be great I would guess, a rare opportunity and I think it would make a fantastic piece for scribbling in the dark (see http://ericamcdonaldphoto.com if you aren’t familiar – artist talks)

    If anyone can go and record for me, I can transcribe for all.

    Additionally, if anyone wants to go and scribble and write it up, that would be great too and we could run it on the (soon to launch, really) develop – photo site.

    PLEASE let me know if you might be able to do either.

    A Conversation with Members of the Photo League – AIPAD

    Sunday, March 21, 2010
    12:00 noon
    In the critical years leading up to World War II, the Photo League flourished as a progressive center for American photography in New York City. In 1947, the League was listed as a “subversive” organization, leading to its demise in 1951. The panel presents a rare opportunity to hear first-hand accounts from the artists themselves during this turbulent period.

    Moderators:
    Catherine Evans, Chief Curator, Columbus Museum of Art, Ohio
    Mason Klein, Curator of Fine Arts, The Jewish Museum, New York

    Artists:
    Vivian Cherry, New York
    Sonia Handelman-Meyer, Charlotte, NC
    Arthur Leipzig, Sea Cliff, NY
    Rebecca Lepkoff, New York
    Jerome Liebling, Amherst, MA
    Marvin E. Newman, New York
    Erika Stone, New York
    Ida Wyman, Madison, WI

    The AIPAD Photography Show New York
    Park Avenue Armory
    643 Park Ave & 67th Street
    New York, NY 10065

    AIPAD programs are free to ticket holders with a run-of-show pass. Attendees with Saturday or Sunday one-day show passes receive access to education sessions that occur on the same day as their purchased ticket. Seating is limited and available on a first-come, first-served basis.

    $25 one day pass
    $10 one day pass with valid student ID

    http://www.aipad.com/photoshow/new-york/

    One of the most important international photography events, The AIPAD Photography Show New York, will be presented by the Association of International Photography Art Dealers (AIPAD) from March 18 through 21, 2010.

    More than 70 of the world’s leading fine art photography galleries will present a wide range of museum-quality work including contemporary, modern and 19th century photographs, as well as photo-based art, video and new media, at the Park Avenue Armory in New York City.

    The AIPAD Photography Show New York is the longest running and foremost exhibition of fine art photography.

  • John G;

    Screw ups; Shooting an entire roll and not realising the leader hadn’t been taken up on the spool properly. Then you get that sickening feeling when you unwind and feel no pressure… bugger….

  • And of course; putting in some Velvia, forgetting to change the dials after shooting Provia etc etc…

  • JOHN G
    LOVE it!!!!
    ***

  • Thodoris, from what I’ve seen on the already developped delta (35mm though), blown out highlights aren’t an issue, nothing that can’t be fixed with more light under teh enlarger..

    With Rodinal, can’t it be that you’ve agitated too much? The other day I’ve developped 120 Tri-x 400 pulled two stops, since the Massive Dev Chart doesn’t list any time (and I couldn’t find anything anywhere), I took those for 35mm film.. contacts look fine, have yet to print it though.. what I’ve noticed written on the bottle is that it states ’tilt’ every 30 seconds, but not how many times, perhaps once is enough?

    Erica, thanks, but all I was confused about was that -1, didn’t want to pull since I needed the speed..

  • Go through the archives or ask Mark Anthony a question, a treasure trove of information on film here http://photo-utopia.blogspot.com/

  • Eva…

    Yes, agitation is one of the main factors—along with time, temperature and dilution…
    I usually use a Jobo, which takes care of the temperature factor, subtracting approximately 20% from the time for hand processing in order to accommodate for the constant/continued agitation…

    In this case, after the first two films came out *too* dense from Jobo, I did three more runs using a Paterson tank and hand agitation—keeping time, temperature and dilution the same… first, I agitated for the first 30″ and 3 times every 30″—still too dense… then, for the first 30″ and 3 times every 1’—still too dense… finally, for the first 20″ and 2 times every 1’and30″—the best results so far… So, if I’ll be using this combo of film/developer in the future, I’ll need to find my own time—which is something that I should have done beforehand, but having used the Massive Dev Chart many times in the past and having found it to be quite accurate I thought I could skip the boring and time consuming testing… well…

    By the way, I’ve used the Jobo/Rodinal 1+50 combo quite successfully with HP5—both 120 and 35mm in the past and my times were the same as those on the Massive Dev Chart (minus 20%)…

  • I like hp5 in D76 . I can get reasonably consistent results, and can then grade them harder(which I like) in the darkroom.
    This is standard @ grade 2
    http://magnesiumphotos.com/members/john-gladdy/speakers-corner-lenin3-copy/

  • Imants, thanks, will bookmark and check it out..

    Thodoris, from what you write I think when they write ’tilt’ they mean ’tilt’, just once.. perhaps..

    John, usually I stick with Tri-x and D-76, which I quite like, seems it gets similar results as you’ve got with the Ilford.. but also depends on chemicals and paper used for the print.. nice grain there.. but for this stuff http://www.slowemotion.it/teatro/01.jpg I just needed more speed..

  • Me, I use Kodak T-MAX 3200 in Kodak TMAX or TriX 400 (exposed 400, 800 or 1600) in D76 or T-MAX

    Best, audrey

  • For places full of light for me the best is tri-x with d76 or apx 400 with rodinal special 1+200, for gray countries like Poland I use pan 400 or rollei retro, big grain- big fun.

  • Eva :)

    interesting problem/dilemma….:)))…lots and lots of good advice here…as usual, i tend to run counter to both suggested principles and the ratings of film…using TRi-x nearly exclusively (though i do use ilford from time to time, especially in the past), i tend generally to shoot everything with 400…when i was plying around with 3200 film about 10 years ago i was sort of not very happy….and i dont like to push or pull in camera…i run the risk…instead i tend to (if i want to push/pull), i do this with development time…we too use Rodinal (not xtol)…the results are always (since i tend to cook my films more than shorten their development) dark, think, ‘ugly’ negatives…which also always meant major-pain-in-the-ass in the darkroom with negatives (a long time to print 1 decent negative) and now often major-pain-in-the-ass with scanning negs….so that i often have do dear with blown out whites (which i love) or curtains of black (which i love)…i think it’s simply a question of what ultimately youre after given the light….if consistancy is what youre after, that i think just make your life simpler:

    i decided long ago with a zen approach: 1 film (for me) regardless of light conditions (the photogods throwing up the arms) and 1 developer, stop bath, fixer, etc….(then again, i only use 1 lens per camera, and that’s always a prime lens)…what that means in the beginning is lots and lots of frustrations in the beginning and then you learn, eventually, given a variety of light conditions and camera settings, what (more or less) the outcome will be and how to solve that in post-processing (development time, darkroom, or when scanning negatives)….

    the problem with lots of advice, especially looking at the advice of colleagues and books (which is how i learned, along with my wife and discovering/experimenting) is that the ratings and numbers and systems have to do with expectations that are personal…

    for me, i’ve learned to love and leave (and hate and go crazy) what comes from that expectation….

    then again, for me i prefer the shooting to be physical and intuitive and visceral (i want to see first and think later) and the post-processing to be part of the work…maybe because having painted first before photography, i always loves the tinkering with negatives….something that the Photoshop world doesnt completely replicate….i once had an argument with a photographer long ago (who actually told me alot about rodinal) that for good negatives and good flexibility you should do all the pull/push (mostly) adjustment with the camera settings …i go the opposite…so, i guess it’s what you want….

    then again, i like long walks, long novels and long comments ;)))…so long screaming matches with my negatives are things i’ve grown fond of :))))

    good luck! :))

    cheers
    bob

  • a civilian-mass audience

    tech talk
    we want more
    tick talk
    we BURN a lot
    keep the talk
    TMAX, TRIX …D76
    tech talk
    WE love you
    ALL …

    P.S…KATHLEEN, KATIE,MYGRACIE…ALL…I can do better…:)))

  • by the way (for CIVI), if you want to mix Rodinal with Xtol…some wicked stuff too :))))))….

    and one thing that hasn’t been metioned AGITATION is also important…how you agitate the film can make a big big difference….for good or bad….in the day when i mixed my own batches (in the kichen, with egg timer), i always had funky agitation, cause im imprecise…and that is the problem…it is so individual to what happens with the development of film….which is why at this point, i just keep it simple to whatever i do….

    the calculus for making pictures your own is kind of beyond the scope and principle of a formula…and that is still why i get jonzed as a photographer :))

    running now for the weekend, last sprint to finish the project…

    cheers ya’ll

    b

  • Bob, thanks ;)

    Yep, it’s kinda individual, Audrey uses the T-MAX and Xtol, I don’t like either of them, I do like your work for example, Bob, but I’d never be able to work like you (not technically, that I can learn, but mentally, wouldn’t be me).. so I do know what I want from my camera/lens/film/chemicals combination, most things go intuitively, and til then I’m fine, the problem comes when I have to deal with numbers, that throws me off.. if the camera had a 3200 setting I’d have been fine ;)

    Civi, I’m done, promise!

  • Eva, no Xtol, but T-MAX, yes.

  • Eva :))…yes, i HATE T-MAX….never worked for me…that’s why i’ve stuck with Trix….but for the way i work the film and light and settings, tmax just looks way too flat for me…and im not interested in the tonalities but in the physicality of film, so i hear u…and yea, technique is easily learned (used to share alot of private secrets with Igor Posner when he was starting out, about the film/developer and things i did to get a certain ‘look’), but you are right, each person has to get to their own mental place…and i HATE numbers…which is what always makes me crazy about photography and gear talk…it’s aa way, but not the solution to making magic :))))…just wait until my new essay gets published…and i have something special in store for Burn too this summer: a gift for david and anton which i hope will give lots of viewers a joyride to chew on :)))…

    have fun :))))

    bob

  • So you don’t have to like some pictures of my work 15 mn…

  • It is the day after St. Patrick’s Day [no, I have lost track of time-I wrote this yesterday], and all through the house, not a creature was stirring, shaking, or otherwise mixing drinks of any kind, for all the little drunks are now too hung over for words to describe. This is a good thing, I think, primarily because young persons do not learn anything unless the anything involved hits them very hard on their incredibly obtuse skulls. This is a lesson that most educators do not grasp fully. Your average teacher still believes that he or she is preparing young minds for the future, whereas your average American high school is simply a very large warehouse where the hormonally engorged can conduct their social lives with as little adult interference as possible; if someone actually does learn something every once in a while, this is nice, to be sure, but it is not the point of the exercise.

    For this crowd, this is why St. Patrick’s Day, or St. Paddy’s Day, as they prefer to call it, exists: the day exists so that they may leave their suburban warrens and descend upon the great metropolis, eager to suck up any alcohol they can get their hands on, sit on the big rocks in Central Park, and smoke pot, if alcohol is not immediately available. They won’t spend any time, if they can help it, actually watching the parade, although in their defense, I must say that watching oddly dressed pedestrians strolling down the street amidst a self-generated megadecibel cacophony loses interest after a while; said cacophony also damages your eardrums if you listen to it for too long. But they don’t forget the patron of the day, the reason that they are wandering around the streets of the metropolis in a drunken stupor. No indeed, scarcely five minutes went by yesterday without at least one of these bright young cretins shouting, “St. Paddy’s Day! St. Paddy’s Day!” This announcement of what everyone already knows was almost inevitably followed by the pronouncement, “I am so totally fucking wasted!”, which was also something everyone else could figure out for themselves. It has been a while since I attended Catholic school, and no, I am not going to give a specific figure for just how long a while it has been, but as I remember it, the importance of Patrick came from his conversion of the Irish from paganism to Christianity. I am sure if the central tenet of Irish Christianity was “Let’s get hammered” one of the nuns would have told me so. Or maybe I was just sick that day and missed the class. That’s always a possibility, I suppose. In any case, the following is just some of what I saw on my excellent adventure to the big city.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/akaky/sets/72157623526535875/show/

  • A note about a contest —

    The South Asian Journalists Association (SAJA) honors excellence in journalism and has two photography categories —

    For media outlets headquartered in and/or freelancers based in the United States or Canada:
    Category 6 – Outstanding photograph about South Asia, or South Asian diaspora (single or series)

    For journalists of South Asian origin working in North America for any media outlet:
    Category 10 – Outstanding photograph about South Asia, or South Asian diaspora (single or series)

    Full details are here:
    http://saja.org/programs/awards

  • Ops, sorry Audrey.. see, can’t even read! ;) And you’re wrong with the not liking thing, if I can’t work with a film or a cam or certain chemicals that doesn’t mean that I don’t like the outcome of others with those, it’s just me.. and there I promised no more tech talk..

    Bob, waiting patiently…

  • Eva, don’t worry… There is no accounting for tastes (Les goûts et les couleurs ne se discutent pas)

  • Isn’t it nice to see an essay where someone has used a Holga but hasn’t photographed statues, headstones, random signs, anything old? The old, “point a holga at something old and call it art” technique that you see over and over again.

    I’ve been a little guilty of that myself, but make a point to try not to. I decided in November to shoot a “typical New Zealand summer” just using the Holga, but due to some family problems was not able to shoot much from late Jan to early March. We had our first frost yesterday, a signal that summer is on the way out…

    I wanted to shoot it retro style, sorta with a “super 8” look. Oh well; next year…. Mind you; I still have a few other ideas up my sleeve for the Holgas…

    As for B&W; I never learnt to develop (have the gear, but haven’t tried). But I did use a lot of Tri-X and HP5+. Neopan 400 was also a beautiful film too.

    Cheers

  • Uh oh, Ross, here’s some typical mediterranean summer.. wonder how much it differs from yours..

    http://www.slowemotion.it/med/01.htm

    Ok, enough today, off and outta here!

  • Ross, I’m a fan of that “Super-8 look” myself. For 35mm, you might try some color Ferrania 400 (if you can find it) in a cheap plastic-lensed camera. Gives some grainy, funky, saturated color. Here in the US, it is usually found re-branded as a supermarket film.

  • …….or just hop into a old general store in the backwaters of NZ….see expiry date 1987 and buy the lot whatever brand it is

  • Justin; I bought about 25 rolls of outdated (3 year) 120 Portra 800 and some outdated (6 years) 120 Reala and Superia. The Portra has slowed to about 400 asa and is as grainy as all hell now; perfect! The Reala and Superia has a pretty strong magenta cast! Just about Super 8 already!

    I’ve also picked up a coulple of 35mm adapters so I can shoot some through the Holga too (pano’s and sprocket holes). I’ve never heard of Ferrania in NZ.

    A bit of playing round with the Holga…

    http://www.photoshelter.com/mem/gallery/gallery-show?G_ID=G0000tZEPVOjeX2I

  • Imants; Msaybe i’ll find some priced in pounds, shillings and pence too? :-)

  • Ciao Eva,

    just saw your website: I really enjoyed your series about Fedora (it resonates so much with my childhood memories of my aunts’ farmhouse) and the gentle irony of “tourism”. Keep up the good work! ;)

  • …and about Holga and the other toy cameras and the approach behind thir use… I think that Lomography to be faithful to its own philosophy, should move on from those plastic film cameras and embrace the digital world: consider those crappy VGA cameras embedded in not-last-generation cell phones! Aren’t they the new holgas? The “ten golden rules” of lomography (http://www.lomography.com/about/the-ten-golden-rules) are fully satisfied by them and their lens/sensor combos are so poor in almost all light situations that your snaps are blessed and flavoured with the technological unconsciousness of the camera

  • Yea the old stuff ₫฿£ still can be found here in oz from time to time

  • 10 Golden Rules? Geez; they lay it on a bit thick don’t they?

    1st Lomo rule; We’ll charge like a wounded bull for a standard 120N Holga, when you can pick one up from Hong Kong traders on “the bay” for about 30 bucks …. and have it delivered to your door in 10 days…

    :-)

  • a civilian-mass audience

    BOBB,
    i tried to mix retinol and axitol… you are so right …wicked stuff…:)))

    EVA,
    please don’t keep your promise:)))

  • a civilian-mass audience

    to all of my BURNIANS

    “Vision is the art of seeing what is invisible to others.”
    Jonathan Swift (Irish Author and Satirist of prose, 1667-1745)

    Shall I say …VIVA

  • So after the disasters of the other day was invited to shoot some dark cabaret last night. Did it properly(well sort of) one camera color(fuji 800), one black and white(ilford 3200). No pissing about.
    http://www.photoshelter.com/gallery/DOUBLE-R/G0000P.pvClsS_Ro

    Also went into a charity shop to buy something to read and instead found a mint first edition hardback copy of sally mann, immediate family.(for £30) Such beautiful prints in every way. Made me mourn for something I think I’ve lost, if I ever had it in the first place. Still I guess we can only dance the steps we know.

    John

  • Audrey :)))…LOVE your stuff….just dont like Tmax at all for me….that’s what i meant :))

    CIVI! :)))))…mixing now….on the final stretch to finish…more next week :)))..happy exploding :))

  • JOHN G
    sally mann’s work is beautiful.. I remember reading an article about her daughter, jesse, and I found it fascinating…. So of course when I had my daughter 16 years ago, I thought I would be the next sally mann… HA! how wrong I was.. anytime I tried to photograph my daughter, she always put on a big smile, as if always saying ‘cheese’!!!! I was devastated… and then I read the article on jesse, and she said the camera was how her mom connected with her…. I realized that I connected with my daughter in different ways, and my photos of her couldn’t be anything like sally manns. my photo and mom role, are separate…. Although she grew up with me working on a 10 year project, and I now see how that has influenced her…… I simply adore sally mann’s work…. enjoy your new book….. and I think your shots are words are beautiful……… xox W ** there’s always room to learn new dance steps…… **

  • Bob, I was always partial to stand development, a couple of good slams, inverts, walk away, chill for an hour with Little Feat, hopefully remember to rinse and fix. What can I say, I hate numbers too. Mmmmm, grain, love a photo with some tooth to it. Funny, I always pictured Salgado madly agitating and dancing in the lab while swinging that tank around like maracas, hand to hand under a red light. Wish I still had a lab. I think I’d try that.

  • Abele, thanks :)

    John, nice stuff, esp. like ‘megawaites’..
    If you should go to Switzerland before June, don’t miss this:

    http://www.elysee.ch/index.php?id=133&L=1&tx_exposition_pi1%5BexpoUID%5D=121

    besides the exhibitions (stunning prints!) there’s also a 85 minutes video to be seen.. so cool to see her process the plates in the back of the truck, in the middle of the woods, besides all the interviews with her and her family..

  • Hei Abele, che sala d’armi è??

  • Eva,

    è la societa sportiva Pietro Micca di Biella, Piemonte, where I live. I’m not particularly fond of fencing: they asked me to shoot a fund-raising calendar last year… and I gladly helped them since, as you well know, the only sport worthing attention and funds in Italy seems to be football ;)… the young athletes of the club are highly motivated and some of them got good places in the under-20 World Cup.

  • Abele, I’ll just skip the part of ‘not being fond of fencing’ ;)).. might even know one of their instructors, Jessica.. good on you for the calendar!

  • A little while back there was some talk about W. Eugene Smith’s Jazz Loft Project Book, if I remember well.. just stumbled over this:

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/03/21/books/20100321-JAZZLOFT-AUDIOSS/index.html

  • here is my 12th Hollywood movie..
    plz enjoy:

    “my niece just got a Lab(rador) and a new House..
    (btw..i just paid for the music copyrights so..get of my back..)

  • here is my 12th Hollywood movie..
    plz enjoy:

    “my niece just got a Lab(rador) and a new House..
    (btw..i just paid for the music copyrights so..get of my back..)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofXLvYYxIZ4&feature=digest

    :))

  • hellooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    Here is my 12th Hollywood movie..
    plz enjoy:

    “my niece just got a Lab(rador) and a new House..
    (btw..i just paid for the music copyrights so..get of my back..)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofXLvYYxIZ4&feature=digest

    :))

  • i assume all of you know i am wrapping up a class and just have no time to be here….you guys always come first for me unless i have students on a week long project..such is now the case…we are working on the final show now for presentation at the Austin Art Center tonight…right now looks impossible that we can be done in time…ok, gotta go…back as soon as possible..

    cheers, david

  • Eva ;)

    correct: Jessica is one of the instructors… and she is very fond of photography too: she recently asked for some advises to improve her skills. I will show her your website, of course!

  • Hehe, Abele, ask her if she remembers this pic: http://www.slowemotion.it/fencing/33.htm

    DAH, you’ll bring the baby home, I’m pretty sure!

  • i posted the link at 7:39pm…why did it appear at 2:30pm???????????

  • 4 months by sea link to here

  • time zones Panos ask Scotty

  • Imants; You don’t accept pigeon post anymore? I see your lot are spanking us at cricket…. Again…. :-)

  • …….some idiot put a lot of money into cricket and made something that was boring into something tedious….don’t mind the 20/20 slugfest

  • P
    alex r needs to see that :)
    happy new home!!
    :)
    wx

  • The other kicked and struggled so much that the cream turned to butter and he walked out.”…… yea but with such a high cholesterol level the poor bugger had a heart attack

  • a civilian-mass audience

    ALL WE NEED IS LOVE…

    ALL WE NEED IS LOVE…

    and some ouzo…where is the ouzo PANOS…where is the ouzo

    Audience awaits…I know…I am still waiting …

    ALL we need is BURN …I love YOU…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    “Two frogs fell into a bowl of cream. One didn’t panic, he relaxed and drowned. The other kicked and struggled so much that the cream turned to butter and he walked out.”

    go figure…:)))

  • TO ALL-

    Having been away for a few weeks for work, I have spent the morning catching up on past essays and looking at what’s been happening on BURN… It is pleasing to see that many are moving forward with new work… I cannot wait to eventally see what Pat has been up to with her “gay” married couple and I can hardly believe that our dear Panos is now with a re-known agency… This is great my friend!!!! On my side, I hope that things will slow down somewhat with my “day-work” as this has been really non-stop since back in Europe and I am finding it more challenging here to carve out time to work on my photography… but, having still 2/3 weeks, I will try to come up with something to share with David, if only to participate to EPF again…this has become sort of a “tradition” and this is a good way to get me out and shoot… I shared with some that I was intending to work on some young skateboaders but on top of having had little time with work, we have had an incredible winter in Belgium and snow is rarely the best condition for the kids to go out and skate on the road, so I am afraid, I have made little progress so far but the warm days are coming back and I went out to shoot yesterday and who knows, maybe I can still get something ready in time…will try at least… Beyond work, the only think I have managed to do was to assemble many of the images I have taken while in the US (outside of Boxing) and put together another Blurb book with the work… more efforts needed to funetune this but always good to try to get one’s work seriously edited. I have also tried to send several letters to some publishing companies and/or companies involved with Boxing to try to get some support for the publication of “Lords of the Ring” but, this is not easy… I am sure all of you full -time photographers know that better than me as this is the first time I actually try on my side but as David said before, the easy part is to take the photographs…real work start afterwards….

    Anyway, just wanting to say “Hi” to our dear crowd here as I am catching up… I also wanted to say to some and in particular Tom that I found some mails that were sent to an email address I was hardly using anymore so I missed coming back to you and I apologize. Tom in particular, let me know if you still want me to come back to you on your questions or if too late :)

    Cheers to all-

    Eric

    PS: Yesterday I have also purchased the book of Marcus Bleasdale… I really recommed it to all. Obviously, you have all seen part of the work here on BURN but there is so much more in this important book, those who can should really get it…

  • things happen before your time here civi

  • …… see my response before you posted your frog stuff

  • Wow! Lassal,

    I really like your postcard portraits as seen on http://lenscratch.blogspot.com/ great work.

    Best, Val

  • If at first,

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/akaky/sets/72157623526535875/show/

    comments, feedback, criticism, large sums of cash always accepted

  • a civilian-mass audience

    IMANTS…

    …you surprised me …I was waiting to see a link…

    something like http://www.iamparanoid/deadfrogg/butter/
    BUT
    IMANTS is IMANTS…just paranoid:)))

    Viva!!!

  • a civilian-mass audience

    BRAVO BURNIANS…!!!

    I will be back with drinks and food…

  • Just in case you’ve got a bit of time on your hand.. lots of entries, gotta dig a bit:

    http://www.leica-oskar-barnack-award.com/#/en/contest/oskar-barnack-award-2010-entries

    Curious to see their final pick..

  • Eva,

    Thanks for the Oscar Barnack heads up. Visited site for an hour and half, time well spent. Very nice of them to make the submissions public. Some notes 9for what its worth):

    How many times did I take a second look and see that the photographer was from China? Chinese photographers seem to be ‘on the case’…

    Digital photography certainly evens the playing field in terms of technical ability and photoshop is used too much, I suggest.

    It remains so rare to come across actual, real authorship.

    Photographers who caught my eye:

    Guang Lu, China, ‘Polution in China’ — great story, subject, colour, feeling, execution.

    John Vink, Cambodia. ‘ Quest for Land’ — I personally love this work, seen a lot of it. Who am I to question him but I wish he would have done it in colour, I find his colour work sublime.

    Roger Lemoyne, Canada, ‘Artisinal Gold Propsectors in the Amazon’, great colour, nice sequencing, continues his mining subject (Congo was last one I saw)

    Andrew Sullivan, USA, ‘Guatemala – Life among the Souls’ — outstanding colour especially photos 3 to 5

    Christian Als, Denmark, ‘Gaza Devastation’ — Koudelka circa Gypsies period style

    Wolf Bowing, Germany, ‘Blacksun’ — classic essay of other people’s misery

    Jose Manual Lopez Perez, ‘Drought, Poverty and Famine’ — WTF? bring on the 4 Horsemen, b/w, bleak, the end….

    Giancarlo Tripodo, Spain, ‘Bang Koh’ — very little idea what it is about but I like it

    David Rengel, Spain, ‘Future Now’ — beautiful images, well executed concept

    Jens Olof Lastheim, Denmark, ‘Waiting for the future’ — excellent use of colour and wide format, where is Abkhazia?

    Some familiar names with new work, new (for me) names, some Burnians.

    Sure wouldn’t want to be the judges though….

  • Doug,

    Who are you? Well, That’ll be Doug MacLellan I guess…
    Thanks.
    Why B&W? Euh… Why not? But most of all because I started the story in B&W 10 years ago and because I value my previous B&W as more ‘valuable’ than my colour. So that when it’ll be the time to look back, I can just skip the colour to see the best. Makes things easier.

    While we’re at the Oskar Barnack…

    Check this by Gaël Turine:
    http://www.leica-oskar-barnack-award.com/#/en/contest/oskar-barnack-award-2010-entries/gael/2

  • Doug, All

    Don’t forget abou Rafal Milach. Hard to find in Leica contest, but here is link to his page http://rafalmilach.com/

  • How the hell do they pick a winner out of that lot? Such a high general standard of work.

  • Thomas, thanks for the link, love 7 room!

  • PANOS,

    I’ll arrive in Athens today at 17:35 local time.
    Unfortunately, I don’t have your phonenumber. If you have time, I’d be happy to see you.
    I’ll fly out Wednesday 24th, after noon.

    My phone number is +49 171 2021225, please text me.

    Cheers,
    Thomas

  • traveling today…back with you tonight or tomorrow morn..much to report..

  • eva – thanks for the reminder about the loft project – I have the original doubletake mag in which sam first wrote about the project:

    “In 1999, Stephenson wrote an article for DoubleTake magazine about the New York loft photos and tapes. Reva and David Logan, who run a foundation, read the piece and gave him $65,000 to start preservation. Gradually raising another $1.2 million in grants, Stephenson spent the next decade immersed in this forgotten world…He traveled to nineteen … See Morestates, interviewing 350 people who had visited the loft from 1957 to 1965, and spent countless hours transcribing what he could decipher from the tapes.” http://nymag.com/arts/books/features/62876/

    but I don’t think i had seen the mm piece you linked to: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/03/21/books/20100321-JAZZLOFT-AUDIOSS/index.html

    I really admire this work, and obsessive as it is I can help but be guided by it…
    Can you imagine, Smith shot this tirelessly for 8 years; 1,447 rolls of film, 4,000 hours of audio…and it took nearly 2 million dollars and nearly a decade to preserve and edit the work (audio and negatives) – that’s what I call a longterm project!

    I ordered the book just now: http://www.amazon.com/Jazz-Loft-Project-Photographs-1957-1965/dp/0307267091 so thanks again for posting.

    **************

    Hi Eric!

  • That Lens Blog thing about the dead soldiers’ bedrooms certainly is thought-provoking.

  • April issue of National Geographic is now out, entirely devoted to subject of water and worldwide water problems. It is a photographic tour de force, with major articles photographed by Jonas Bendiksen, John Stanmeyer, Lynn Johnson, Joel Sartore, Edward Burtynsky, and Paolo Pellegrin. Even if you are not normally interested in or impressed by NatGeo magazine, especially during the last few years, you should check out this issue.

  • Sidney, thanks for the heads up. I’m waiting for it. It sounds great they devoted the entire issue to one overarching important topic, one that I’ve been exploring in the mid-Columbia valley. I hope they continue to have themed issues and make even stronger connections between people and the environment within the context of the global community … seems so obvious to me.

  • DAH:

    Please tell me when will you be in Madrid. I don´t want to miss your print show. Perhaps we can meet before or after the opening?

    Thanks!
    Jorge

  • Sidney, yes, thanks for mentioning the new Nat Geo April issue focusing on water.
    I just saw a wonderful, awareness-raising film on water called, “Flow”.
    Check out the trailer here: http://www.flowthefilm.com/trailer

  • SIDNEY…

    i have yet to see the water issue of Natgeo…but, i have seen some of the layouts…yes, still hard to beat NG for either natural history or environmental issues…and , yes, all star casting on this one…

    KATIA…

    nice to see your name again here…been a long time..when you have a chance can you please send me an email? i want to catch up and see what you are doing…many thanks….

    JORGE…

    i should be in Madrid at the end of April…i do not know the opening date for the show, but will let you know…it will be a small show….maybe 10-15 big prints…American Family…..the new EFTI space is small but quite nice…i do hope to see you there..

    cheers, david

  • Today Lens Blog featured some of Paolo Pellegrin’s photos from the latest NatGeo issue on water. He has a fascinating slant on the story, one that occurred to me a number of years ago as the “elephant in the room” in the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. It’s as much about water as it is about land.

    http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/22/showcase-141/

    An excellent resource regarding the global water crisis is Vandana Shiva’s book, “Water Wars: Privatization, Pollution, and Profit.” As climate changes progresses we’ll be seeing more and more fighting over water. You can buy her book new and used on Amazon.

    Patricia

  • ERIC ESPINOSA…

    thank you for the update…i wondered where you had gone….however, i had no doubt in my mind whatsoever that you would be working on something…always anxious to see your latest work…i cannot believe you and Anton have not met since you have been in Belgium…both busy boys i guess…

    cheers, david

  • PATRICIA…

    also an interesting piece in the Economist this week on politics vs. science in connection with climate change..

  • I’m excited to see the issue… It’s high time water is given the attention it deserves. Consider for a moment where the Indus river – life blood of Pakistan, originates… Howabout the Brahmaputra (which traverses India and meets ocean in Bangladesh)… The Yangtze? The Mekong?
    All start on the Tibetan Plateau. As though the China/Pakistan/India borderlands weren’t tense enough, just wait until people start to think about the water. The implications are huge.

    Oh, and it’s a little known fact there is already a damn or two on the Indus headwaters…

  • Patricia;

    I think clean safe water will become the “new oil” in many conflicts in years to come… We are even having water problems here, especially from eutrophication (from fertiliser run-off etc) We even have one complete waterway coming under huge pressure through the introduction of koi carp!

  • And it’s not as though we don’t get our fair share of rain!

  • Regarding water issues, I don’t know if any of you are familiar with the work of Charles Bowden. He’s one of the world’s preeminent journalists and creative non-fiction writers who has also done a lot of work both with and publicizing photographers. His first book was on water issues. I can’t recommend it highly enough for anyone interested. Killing the Hidden Waters.

  • ERICA,

    Hi…Hope you are doing well… I have been wondering actually what you were up to yourself. Are you still continuing further “The Dark Light of this Nothing” or have you moved on to another project?? I have read somewhere that you had a great publication but missed the link…Would love to see it again if at all possible.

    DAVID,

    Will be working at an accelarated pace for the few days that I will have between now and mid-April…not much time but sometimes, a deadline is good… I presure that you must have felt this also at times, but starting something new never seems very easy… Of course you can make a few shots here and there that are OK but it takes a while for me at least to feel if this could be heading somewhere, if the topic can have enough “legs”… After spending the week-end mostly shooting this new topic, I am hopeful that this could work but will see… By the way, I presume that you must have seen our dear Lance in Austin…what is he up to? Still pushing the cowboys story???

    OK, early morning here in Belgium… time to wake up kids… I am single parent for 3 days this week and then off to UK on business trip for 2 days… I tell you… never ever enough time in a day it seems… oh well, what is new :):):)

    Cheers,

    Eric

    PS: Anton, this is indeed a disgrace…we need to fix this… Will be reaching out to you….:):)

  • Hi David and all here, sorry to keep on going on about this but it is an extreemly important time for image creators in the UK at the moment….. In short the Digital Economy Bill is on the verge of being rushed through legislation in the run up to the general election where outstanding legislation goes into the so called “wash-up” before an election.

    In brief as the bill stands, images (including photography) can become orphan works very easily, allowing commercial users of images to use the images for free or at a very reduced rate with no compensation to the creator (eg you and me)… this is a monumental and catastrophic change to how creators are compensated for use of images at the moment. It seems that relatively few people are aware or even care about this issue. Please contact your MP or any media contacts you might have to stop this bill NOW.

    Please look at http://www.stop43.org.uk/ for more information.

    Thanks all this is really important to all our livelyhoods.

    Thanks in your patience David in letting me post here.

    Ian

  • John Vink.. 23 years ago and asking if anything has changed.. I fear yes, problems are the same but pollution, intoxication, contamination is worse, and getting worse in the future, probably..

    Water isn’t a right, water is a merchandise.. that’s nothing new. Look at Sicily and the mafia..

  • IAN AITKEN..

    i was not aware of this legislation in the U.K., but certainly i care….i would imagine my colleagues in Magnum London are all over it, but let me do a bit of digging and see what i can find out..will let you know soonest what they are doing or what we can do to stop this bill….

    ERIC…

    well, i can see with family and job and you trying to do your photography there is just not much time left…Anton is a patient man….he will wait….

    Mike Courvoisier and i stayed with Lance at his home during the Austin workshop and show…Lance ran the whole deal with his usual aplomb…how much sleep do you think we had last week?? by text Lance wrote he is in “recovery mode”….

    cheers, david

  • Thanks David, I am sure Magnum are all over it.

    The more people we get involved the better.

    regards

    Ian

  • Today I opened Burn on the screen of my computer and just want to say hello to all my virtual friends- photographers…

    David Alan Harvey, I believe one day I will manage my way to New York, and you won’t refuse to have a cup of coffee with me :)…

    John Vink, along with the works of few other 20-th century classics, I am becoming a big admirer of your photography…

    To all, don’t be offended and don’t keep anger on me for my occasional subjective, and maybe unfair, critique on your photos, I am just not indifferent to photography in general…:))

    Best wishes to all from Vilnius

  • Eric …

    hi! there were a few things out this month, if you go to my site and look under IN Print they are there now, a long awaited (and much appreciated, by me) Mother Jones piece, a cover on Epoch Times newspaper for the same Surf piece and then the British Journal of Photog gave space to the dark light of this nothing…so a nice month.

    I am waiting on a few new rolls of negatives from the dark light otn, maybe back today, still shooting when I can but I think I need funding to take it further. Most of my time right now is taken up with trying to get DEVELOP launched; I’m behind my self imposed schedule and I sort of lost steam for a week when I didn’t make my deadline. But I’m back at it…it’s the online photo resources library that is so overwhelming to compile, but I really feel like the documentary/fine art community needs a place where they can easily source a carefully picked assembly of information (including, as of now: grants/contests/awards, agencies, festivals, galleries/museums, magazines/blogs, photographers a-z, residencies / opportunities, spaces and organizations, participatory outreach programs, sourcebooks, internships, workshops, schools and other helpful bits. I’m still working on books and publishers and other info.)

    Hopefully I’ll have all this together soon…

    But am thinking on other photo projects, have a couple of choices in mind, letting them brew :)

    Check in and let us all know how you are.

    Erica

  • Anthony..
    big hug to u too…
    no worries..keep telling it how u feel like it..
    we all here been unfair at one point or another…
    subjective too..;)
    peace

  • Bill Cunningham, for those in New York on the 24th or 25th:

    http://www.newdirectors.org/2010/bill-cunningham-new-york-2/

  • a civilian-mass audience

    I am back BURNIANS…
    My apologies…I had promised food and drinks …I brought nothing…

    BUT …I miss you ALL

    a big BRAVO to the Survivors…out there…I am so happy to see some “lost” BURNIANS…

    AITKEN …what shall I do???

    THOMAS BERGULLA,
    you are in Greece…email me ASAP…civilianma@yahoo.com…you got to come home…
    I am gonna try to contact you…

    Shall I say …what not to LOVE…

  • Lens blog has just posted a very important entry about the police barricading the gallery in Bangladesh where the photography exhibit “Crossfire” was scheduled to open on Monday. Whenever we doubt that our camera has the ability to shake up the status quo, we should remember the courage of our brother Shahidul Alam and this historic moment in our shared history.

    http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/23/behind-39/

    Patricia

  • ERICA,

    Waouh, you did have a good month indeed!!!! Congratulations for this well deserved recognition.

    Eric

  • Regarding the Digital Economy Bill (visited the webpage and read about it)

    Does that mean that the UK government will get money from anyones pictures?? Even if these pictures are made by someone outside the UK? From anywhere in the world? Am I getting something wrong here? How can the UK goverment decide about lets say an American photographer’s photos?

    Cheers

    Stelios

    ps Hello to everyone, been lurking around this forum for quite sometime, finding it hard to follow all the comment but admiring all the hard work, keep it up.

  • CIVI you can sign up to the facebook page to pledge your support.
    http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=105741059455603&ref=mf

    thanks

    ian

  • Stelios yes potentially that is correct, only if the photographer finds out the work has been used they can then make their claim to the government for payment.

    Nightmare………. sign up to the facebook page.

    cheers

    ian

  • Well, that sounds umm stupid?
    What’s wrong with them anyway?

  • Stellios, this is a bill that is being rushed through with little thought of the consequences, in effect if a UK company finds a picture on the net and wants to use it, the company does a rough search to find the photographer (metadata tends to get stripped out of images when uploaded to the web or if the picture has been through many hands), they can’t find the photographer, the company sends an application to the uk gov to use the picture, the uk gov set a fee for usage. The UK gov get the money and hold onto it untill the photographer finds out the picture is being used and then applies to the uk gov for fees.

    As you can see this is longwinded, rediculous and anti copyright. If for instance the picture in question belonged to a US photographer I do not think it would take long for them to start sueing the UK Gov for breach of copyright etc.

    Cheers

    Ian

  • Absurd.

    They make photographers feel like terrorists,
    strip their copyrights,
    and shut down 6 Music.

    It’s all going wrong!

  • There are a number of large organisations lobbying the UK gov so that they can use Orphan works, the bbc is amoungst them and some of the major news media corps, this will allow free usage of images without having to hunt around for the creators of the pictures… imagine to cost saving……

    Ian

  • TO ALL-

    I do not know if you have seen this piece of work yet but I was intrigued to see Marcus Bleasdale cover a story on TB even though another photographer from the same agency James Nachtwey has covered this topic extensively (work from James was also shown recently here on BURN).

    http://www.viiphoto.com/showstory.php?nID=1096

    I have to say that I am a fan of Marcus’s work and his book on Congo is one of a kind but I somehow was a bit disappointed by that piece of work even if there are also very strong pictures in this essay. The interesting part is that James focused on the horror, the hopelessness in B&W while Marcus chose a more optimistic angle showing another side of the story and that with new treatments correctly administered mean patients recover and can continue with a normal life. Interestingly, Marcus’s pictures are in colors and actually show pctures with some smiles etc whil Jame stalkd about th hope with his voice but no \t a singl image of hope. Some pictures of Marcus still show the sadness but I cannot imagine two pieces of work and style further apart yet both on the same topic of TB…. Anyway, I am curious what others will think but while powerful, Marcus’s essay this time came a bit short for me, especially after seeing the work of James…. Obviously, Nachtwey is always a tough act to follow….

    Let me know what you think.

    Cheers,

    Eric

  • It is absurd and has to be stopped NOW.

    The budget is being announced tomorrow which is when this bill could potentially be passed into law, when it goes through the “wash-up”, which is when all outstanding legislation is traded before the forthcoming election.

    So if anyone wants to stop this things need to happen within the next 24hrs so please sign up to the above.

    Thanks

    All

  • Does anyone have any suggestions for a CD/DVD burner that will work with Windows XP and costs between $100 and $200? I just lost 120Gb worth of RAW files and jpegs to a computer virus and it’s not going to happen again. And if I ever find the hacker to came up with this virus I am going to pop his (or her) frigging kneecaps off with a crowbar.

  • i always look here first…always satisfied..so far… :)

    http://www.newegg.com/

  • Akaky,

    Another alternative is to spend that amount on the largest USB drive you can find (portable with no power cord is nice, but but not necessary), and then use it to copy the files. Faster, and if you disconnect ir power it down between uses it will be fine. Also saves the cost of removable media.

    I have 2 – a portable 500GB and a paperback-book sized one with a power supply that is 1TB. I carry the portable with me when I travel so I can immediately copy anything to it.

  • i know its kinda sad…
    i know its Easter..Christians are happy..
    Jesus’s resurrection once again…
    but the Orthodox Christian continue that
    barbaric tradition…of killing the innocent lamb
    in the name of God..
    in the name of Love..

    watch my new “movie” here:

  • Don’t lambast the lamb……………. not eating lamg is being unAustralian!!!

  • Imants i agree…
    the only thing that comes close to the roasted lamb’s taste…
    is pizza made by the brains of an intellectual…

  • Save a lamb, please

  • Saving lamb is easy…………….. but you will have to heat it up in the microwave.

  • OK….being half greek and orthodox…I’ll post this one.

  • Hey Ben Roberts, If you are still out there, congratulations on being in the top 30 pdn for 2010.

    Cheers

    ian

  • Eric, Anton,

    I am in Brussels, tight schedule but if you will meet together finally give me a note here on Burn maybe I could join( if I will be not in Amsterdam)
    :)

  • Marcin, Eric, Anton, have one on me guys. A Leffe Blonde for me.

  • Another interview with a photographer turned publisher…
    This one features Richard Renaldi…

    http://toomuchchocolate.org/?p=2439

  • IAN…

    i have just been on the phone with Magnum London to find out what is going on with this UK legislation regarding “orphan works”….i did not receive a clear answer as to the severity of this legislation…however, in a few hours i will have all details…i will say that your sense of urgency was not quite matched by our editorial director at Magnum, but again i just do not have all the information….surely if what you say were to manifest itself in a real way, then it would put Magnum out of business, so i cannot imagine that happening without some sharp knives being unleashed by us in the direction of the UK legislators…i might have missed a link from you..can you please re-post any important links?…in any case, i will get to the bottom of it soonest and let you know what i find out…

    MARCIN, ANTON, ERIC…

    i do hope you all meet….photo please please

    cheers, david

  • tech note..question:

    i save all my very best images on compact flash cards…. in addition to what is on the hard drives…i mean the very best images, not the whole shoot….seems to me the most stable solid state technology for storing the “selects”…any evidence to the contrary?

  • Hi David, thanks for looking into this and passing your concerns to The editorial director at Magnum.

    The crux of the issue is that photographs can loose their metadata either by passing through many hands or simply being up loaded to the web, this new legislation has been formed in a rush, so the due dilligence to find out who an owner/creator of an image is is not strict or stringent enough to find out who the creator is, so therefore, images can be used without recompense to the creator. Of course metadata can be deliberately lost also…..It is an ill conceived piece of legislation.

    The urgency is in the fact that we have an upcoming election in a few months and all outstanding legislation needs to be sorted before this, for this to happen all outstanding legislation goes into the “washup” whereby each party trades and barters to get their legislation through before the election, this means that legislation can be passed into law without though testing in the house of commons. This will all be done before April 6th, hence the urgency.

    It turns out Getty have just realised the impact it will have on them and are now trying to rectify matters, few other stock/libraries have realised the impact that this bill will have.

    The main point of reference is http://www.stop43.org.uk where all information is being posted as it occurs. If the editor at Magnum wants to speak with someone please call Paul Ellis on +44 7930 312554 he is all over this issue and has his ear to the ground.

    Thanks once again for your help in this.

    regards

    ian

  • HI David some more info and links on DIGITAL ECONOMY BILL
    The Digital Economy Bill is coming to the end of it’s process through the 2 Houses – due to an imminent election there will not be time to debate the Bill fully in the House of Commons.

    If you don’t think it will affect you then take the time to read the other articles on this site about Clause 43 (formerly Clause 42)

    Due to a swell of protest from photographers and their representative bodies the Intellectual Property Office put up a page on it’s website explaining what the clause means to photographers – however each point has been countered from a photographers point of view:

    http://copyrightaction.com/forum/why-the-ipo-is-wrong

    PLEASE write to your MP’s now – all parties but particularly Lib Dems and Tories – once an election is called the window for debate is very very small.

    Template letters don’t work, you need to personalise your letter – here are some pointers as to what to include:

    The purpose of your letter is to alert your MP to the problems photographers will face if Orphan Works legislation (Clause 43 of the Digital Economy Bill) becomes law in the manner suggested – ie through secondary legislation introduced at a later date by the Secretary of State.

    It is important to remind your MP that due to the timing of this Bill hitting the House of Commons, just before the call for an election is due, they will not be able to exercise their right as elected politicians in passing legislation as there will not be enough time. There will only be time for a second reading in the House of Commons followed by possibly just a single day in Committee before it is sent back to the Lords for any amendments made in the Commons to be debated. The Bill will then get Royal Assent.
    Consultations will be held before secondary legislation is finalised, but there is NO onus on the Secretary of State to take into account the results of the consultation. Additionally, when the secondary legislation is introduced it cannot be amended in either of the two Houses – it can only be approved, annulled or withdrawn.
    Here are the problems you, as a photographer, will face should Orphan Works legislation be passed:
    Without the automatic right to a credit on your work and the right of clients (by law) to ask you to waive your right, any published work, -particularly on the internet – is likely to become orphaned.
    Without strong legislation preventing the removal of metadata from your images the majority of your work may become orphaned.
    Metadata in images can disappear when they are ‘lifted’ from the internet creating an orphan work.
    Without restrictions to cultural institutions only being able to use
    Orphan Works for historical and cultural purposes, images which become orphaned could have their commercial value damaged by licensed commercial use. Additionally, those which contain people could be used in ways not originally agreed on and may be detrimental to the person depicted.

    We believe that clause 43 should be removed from the digital economy bill and that any orphan works legislation should be primary legislation, not secondary legislation, to ensure true democratic processes are adhered to.

    However, we understand that Clause 43 is wider than Orphan Works. In the event that Clause 43 cannot be removed from the final wording of the Bill, please ask your MP to brief their representative involved in the Committee stage, or wash-up, to ask the Government for assurances that our concerns will be addressed prior to secondary legislation being enacted.

  • David, there is a links page at stop43 which lists the concerned associated bodies. It seems I can’t list too many links here.

    copyrightaction.com/forum/why-the-ipo-is-wrong

    cheers

    ian

  • IAN..

    i am going to Magnum office right now…back to you soonest….one more phone call to London did suggest to me that our lawyers are all over this…and that right now even though the law has passed, it goes to Commons for interpretation….right now there is no fear at Magnum for commercial exploitation..but, again, back to you with everything i can find out as soon as i can…

  • Hi David great to hear, The issue lies in this “Wash-UP” process before the general election where legislation can be passed without proper scrutiny before the House of Commons.

    The lawyers might have missed that one…

    Ian

  • a civilian-mass audience

    AITKEN…

    Thanks I am working on it…

    MARCIN,ERIC,ANTON…
    I will have the same as MR.VINK…the left Blondie…:))

    THOMAS,
    your phone sucks …I don’t speak German…I am a Greek Civilian…and you don’t want me to get started…

  • a civilian-mass audience

    TO ALL BURNIANS…

    MR.HARVEY has a tech question…
    I have no clue …maybe a rhetorical one ????BUT …I will copy and Paste…

    MR.DAH…hang on there…help is coming
    “tech note..question:
    i save all my very best images on compact flash cards…. in addition to what is on the hard drives…i mean the very best images, not the whole shoot….seems to me the most stable solid state technology for storing the “selects”…any evidence to the contrary?”

    Wishes to ALL

  • a civilian-mass audience

    I believe in the Universe …BUT I believe in the Citizens of the Universe
    therefore Happy Holidays …in whatever you believe…

    may the spirits be with you…and Kalo Pasxa…

  • DAH,

    I know of no evidence disputing the reliability of CF cards for storage, but I would definitely archive them in anti-static/shielded bags to prevent any static discharge from “zapping” files stored on them.

  • CF cards can fail, same as any form of storage, you just need to be rigorous about backing up on whatever media you have available.

    My 2p worth

  • Regarding the comment someone made the other day about the contrast between Marcus Bleasdale’s piece on TB and James Nachtwey work on the same subject, I too found that interesting.

    I don’t, however, agree that Nachtwey’s work is superior, though it definitely has much more of an immediate impact. From a “getting a visceral reaction” perspective, it’s no doubt easier to photograph human skeletons breathing pretty close to their last gasps than people in early stages of a disease who are dealing with issues of love, loss, family, and an optimistic struggle to survive. That’s not a knock against Nachtwey’s work, which I would never accuse of being “easy,” more saying it’s like comparing apples and apricots. And why do we feel like we have to pick a winner? They are complimentary. Both excellent.

    From an editing perspective, I did feel that Nachtwey’s presentation was much more effective. He frontloaded many of the most compelling images whereas Bleasdale’s presentation seemed to meander. Watching Nachtwey, it was immediately obvious that people were dying horribly. Watching Bleasdale’s, you couldn’t even be 100 percent sure anyone was sick. Sure, the surgical masks are a clue, but otherwise the subjects look healthy. Then they look happy and are smiling and laughing. Only later do we see real evidence that they are ill. So I think the essay would benefit greatly by a different edit, more like Nachtwey’s where the problem is identified in the first few slides.

    I do, however, very much appreciate Bleasdale’s approach. People are often happy, at least for short intervals, in trying times and it’s good to know that there is hope for the disease’s victims. If one honestly documents reality, there is almost always some good and happiness involved, at least somewhere in the periphery of the story. Of course I recognize that if one is trying to influence the public or politicians, it’s probably more effective to be all gloom and doom, and I’ve no problem with a little dishonesty by omission to save lives. Just sayin.

    I’m also glad to see work being done in color. It’s just me, I know, but the more I pay attention, the more I’m tiring of black and white. I went to a photo show in New York the other day that featured many of the world’s top galleries. I’d guess 85 percent of the photos on sale were black and white and a lot of them were old photos from iconic photographers. Very little of the color work was what anyone would call photojournalism. I guess they sell what sells, and I’m not buying, so I don’t blame the galleries, but still, I do not understand why we’re not even close to parity. I find it hard to understand why if color photography is really all that difficult, why the world’s best and most ambitious photographers wouldn’t take up the challenge (and charge extra for it).

    Anyway, that said, the work I liked the best was black and white. Salgado’s new project documenting spectacular natural habitats that are disappearing around the globe. Great stuff. You all have something to look forward to when that is more widely disseminated.

  • Civi,
    my phone speaks German, but also understands English. …and usually, I answer the phone personally.
    Give it a try :)

    Cheers from Athens, tomorrow I fly back..
    Greece is having a holiday tomorrow – what is this about?

  • DAH

    Regarding backup and media, your CF cards are perhaps one of the most stable forms of storage. Yes, they can fail, but they will be much more reliable than hard drives, which will always fail eventually. CD and DVD burning is also pretty stable, but there are tests that show those, too, degrade.

    I like USB drives because of their capacity, speed, and portability (for the USB-powered ones). The important thing to do if using USB drives for storage is to not leave them up and “running” unless you are using them.

    As Ian points out, most importantly be disciplined about backing things up. I try and keep at least the “keeper” images in at least three different places:

    – when travelling, they are on my portable USB drive, my laptop drive, and if I have room, stay on the CF card.

    – at home, they are on the laptop drive, portable USB drive, and “home” USB drive.

    I like the portable USB when I travel because I can edit on it and then easily synch everything back to the other two places when I get home. I used to use just the laptop drive for that, but quickly ran out of disk space.

    Of course, no matter what the media we are all subject to the changes in technology….hopefully there will be ways to read the CDS, DVDs, hard drives, and CF cards we use in 20 or 30 years. I recently found an old floppy disk labelled “photos” and have no idea what is on it, and have no way to find out since I don’t have any machines with a floppy drive….

    good light, all
    A

  • ANDREW B…

    well, i make prints…hard copy the best way to go…for those special works…cannot ever go wrong making prints..one of the problems with the digital age is that we are so quickly self satisfied…with b&w we had to print just to see the image…

    i do not really see the difference with USB drives and compact flash cards…are they not exactly the same technology? that question is coming from someone who knows little, so it is not a rhetorical question…anyway, i have everything backed up every which way…not counting the Magnum servers which house the selects….

    cheers, david

  • DAH,

    I wasn’t very clear with my technobabble terms.

    When I said USB drive, I think you thought of USB flash drives…the little “thumb drives” that plug into the USB port. You are correct, those are the same technology as a CF card. While they are getting larger capacity (16, 32, and 64G are not uncommon), even those large sizes can be quickly filled with the new file sizes if you are shooting RAW.

    When I said USB drive, I was referring to the small portable hard drives that plug into a USB port. My portable brand is a Seagate “Free Agent”, it’s just slightly larger than an old school iPod and has a capacity of 500GB, which is plenty to hold a several years worth of my shooting (keepers and maybe-keepers). The one on my desk is one terabyte, which is an amazingly huge amount of space, yet under $200.

    And you are right on it, prints are the way to go for those special works. Nice prints on archival paper are a good bet…

    Do I recall correctly that you printed the photograph of the woman in the stairwell (blue light background) on treated aluminum? Very large? I would love to see that…..

    best,
    A.

  • And as the mond-boggling useless tech fact for the day, consider that a single 1 Terabyte drive could hold roughly a quarter-million songs, or 300 feature length films.

    20 of those 1 TB drives would hold the entire print collection of the U.S. Library of Congress.

    Someday, we might all be walking around with every piece of data known to man stored at our fingertips……

  • ANDREW B..

    now you have really confused me…isn’t the USB port hard drive the same as any other spinning disk drive? what does the port have to do with it? i was only thinking solid state technology as being perhaps better than any moving part technology….what am i thinking wrong about this?

  • David,

    You’re exactly right, no difference, a USB port hard drive is just like any other spinning drive. The advantages are portability (for the self-powered ones) and the fact that you can disconnect/turn them off so they are not spinning when you aren’t using them (internal ones spin up periodically). I only turn the one on my desk on to synchronize files or edit archives – probably an average of less than an hour a week. At that rate, it should last quite a while.

    Solid state is more reliable from that perspective, but is more limited in size. For about $100, you can get a 500G USB hard drive or a 16 or 32G (maybe more, depending on speed) CF card.

    You’re good to go – don’t overthink it :)

    Now, the large print on aluminum of the lady in blue light? Is it on display anywhere?

  • All i did today was a:
    “Short Family Trip to school”
    enjoy my rainy “movie”…

  • Erica,

    I haven’t been able to keep up with all that’s happening here. Congrats on all your recognition. You deserve it! I’m pretty sure I posted a link to Swannie’s blog (Mary Virginia Swanson) a year or so ago and we’ve discussed her here. As you put your data base together she lists many of the resources you mentioned. Sounds like yours will be even more comprehensive though.

    In case anyone else is interested:
    http://marketingphotos.wordpress.com/

  • Kurt,

    Thank you for the link; certainly sucks, though. RIP Jim Marshall.

  • Shocked about Jim’s death. I feel lucky I got to spend some time with him just a short while ago. Not sure what to say other than he was a big inspiration for me. Rest in peace Jim.

    Here is a gallery of photos from that weekend of the opening for Taking Aim in Seattle:

    http://www.charlespeterson.net/Taking_Aim/

  • no time to write…..off on another project…

    just this, for you, young man Harvey….rain or no rain ;)