a few days ago i hung around "backstage" for about an hour at a small circus in Oaxaca…the ring master, trapeze artists, lion tamers, dancers, etc etc , live on the road…traveling in small truck pulled trailers going from town to town entertaining mostly children who love the "wild animals", death-defying high bar acts, and the often sad clowns who make them laugh….pure and simple entertainment is their business…
we have chatted a lot lately about being creative "on the road" or drawing energy from familiar surroundings….obviously, different strokes for different folks….whatever works, works….but, i am really interested in how you see your work itself…the "function" of the work….the purpose…
the young woman above, about to go "on stage", is a performer…a bareback rider …her skill is clearly "performance art"….she uses her costume, horse and her body to entertain…some photographs are intended to communicate an idea or to journalistically portray an "event", some to show a physical place, some to explore the "inner mind" of the photographer and some falling into the category of "performance" itself..i.e. Cindy Sherman or Gregory Crewdson…
how do you see your own work? does your work communicate an idea, show what a place or person "looks like" or do you see your photographs as living representations, or even as "objects" in and of themselves…. perhaps even becoming "pure entertainment" ?
AKAKY, YES!!!!!!!!!!
Jazz, black music, blues, black music, Elvis ( some say he stole from the black culture some say he helped the black music???
you already know my opinion… rolling stones, led zeppelin also,
black music, r&b, black music,
hip-hop, RAP,… BLACK MUSIC
You are exactly right Akaky…
Its just that i have hard time to see the difference between jazz blues and hip-hop in my poor litlle mind!!!!!!
peace
OLIVER,
I stopped reading books almost 11 years ago…
My last book was
” Also sprach Zarathustra” or “Thus Spake Zarathustra”
Ein Buch für Alle und Keinen), is a work by German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche, composed in four parts between 1883 and 1885. It famously declares that “God is dead”
Oliver said:
“BTW as i am german and my english is not so perfect, i do not get all the stuff about fear and weakness and so on you are talking about. But it seems to be something thats quite often in your postings.
Posted by: Oliver Berner | March 09, 2008 at 01:52 PM..
So Oliver my thoughts are somewhat influenced by F.N, theories about weakness… and strength..
If you read the above philosopher you will see where im coming from..
Im just an oversimplified and naive version… thats all…
and Oliver i love your HONESTY… unlike… anyways…
and AKAKY , its fine not to like Snoop …
for me Snoop is as important as it was CURT COBAIN for
my friend Charles Peterson,,,…
Question for CHARLES:
Charles you followed grunge from the beginning and just like
Herodotus you recorded it in perfect, honest way…
(thats what i hope to do around hip-hop today… not just to cash-in!!!!!!
… but my question to you…
what was your original motives that made you get deep into recording the “grunge” way of life and music??
I know it wasnt the dough… was it the music… i can keep guessing for ever….
Your answer might help ME discover my secret hidden motives around HIP HOP…
peace
ps. Charles thanks in advance!
Herve,
I think the very first picture in that series has the dick you’re looking for.
Akaky,
Thank you for that film! Absolutely brilliant. I’m feelin’ “blue” all over!
Kalimera Panos.
How’s the Snoop shoot comin’ along?
Kalimera Michael ,
I loved what you wrote above:
“…Herve,
I think the very first picture in that series has the dick you’re looking for…”
LOL, (kidding, i know you didnt mean to suggest Herve , dick for breakfast…!!!! , but i do…!!! lol…o.k im playing here…
Herve please dont get offended… I’m just twisting Michael’s words…)
o.k enough with my silly jokes…
Michael.. thank you for asking…
You see after i got DAH’s hip hop book as a present (from my girl) last month… i tried to study and understand his “looseness theory”…
I dont know if i ever got it… but i tried this time a different approach…
I want his opinions in my new series of Snoop photos…. about looseness…
I would also appreciate YOUR opinions about the same subject…
( i need some hardcore, spanking , let it all out, aggresive critique….just like i do when i offend people…. when i offend people i put the spotlight on them,
i honor them, put them in the center….I want the same for me)…
So i will need your help soon…
Now im trying to edit… already from 500 down to 100 pics… i need to go down to 20…
I already have a link (with a password)… im not allowed to publish anything till next friday…
but i need some help….
Like i said i edited down to 100….
IS ANYONE OUT THERE THAT WISHES TO HELP ME… EDITING WISE????
I will send you the link with my 100 secret for now (and of course i will let it open- no password) photos….
I trust preety much everyone here…
my email is :innerspacecowpanos@mac.com…
please email me your email address , i will send you the secret link…
if you can help me… with the best 5 or 10 or 20 photos you suggest….
I really need help, not trying to show of, or waste your time… or PLUG myself…
I dont worry about that… im not trying to sell… those photos are already sold…
Im just trying to fucking learn something here… maybe i cant be a better photographer but i can definitely be a better editor..
Michael, thanks again
peace
… The reason i worry this time is because i only used two cameras and two STANDARD lenses..
D200 with a 16mm fishey,f2.8
M8 50mm……………………… no zooms (this time)
I tried to challenge myself leaving the zooms in the car…
Now, about ( the autofocus leica that has the 35-420mm zoom),
i used it primarily for the video.. maybe i shot 10 frames, just to test it… but thats all…
thanks again
peace
Panos
I am jealous about your M8…
leica m6 make me free and make me better photographer…
I have d200 with 24 2.8
rangefinder camera it is my way of work…
but i prefer travel somewhere than buy new very expensive camera… even if I work easer with M6 and probably would have great results with M8
Marcin send me your email… i need something from you
please!
sorry, i meant my email is below
innerspacecowpanos@mac.com
marcin.luczkowski@wp.pl
david ukaleq b. and any others with strobe questions -
go here, spend LOTS of time, there is unending information about flash… it’s quite amazing how much great free info is on this website:
http://www.strobist.com
go into Archives and Lighting 101 … many examples posted, links to others’ work — you will learn a lot by the time you surface from the deep well of info on that site.
MARCIN SAID
“…Panos
I am jealous about your M8…”
PANOS replies:
“… and im jealous of your talent…” how about that?..
also
MICHAEL K. thank you….thank you and thanks again…
and of course i owe you..
peace
Panos,
all i know is, that nietzsches work is highly aphoristic, not a manual, that he lost most of his friends and that he was suffering from mental illness. in this context may i ask you, if you consider yourself an “übermensch” ? (not to annoy you, just to know in which light i have to see your photography)
have fun with your editing-
Panos
Am I help a little bit?
I hear some jazz so…
good night and good luck…
Oliver,
editing is the WORST part for me…
Its like being naked in front of my mirror,
keep measuring my “little unit”, over and over…
What kinda life can i expect with these 2 and a half inches “fully errect”?????…
The shoot…, what an excitement…!
And then i go home… and i like this but not that…
the pics i thought i “nailed” blurry, some i thought were crap…
looking brilliant…(advise from me to me: NEVER ERASE ANY PHOTOS… NO MATTER HOW BAD THEY LOOK AT THE TIME YOU SHOT, through the lcd…
sometimes anxiety comes from “too many” good ones…
You see photos are just like our children… we dont want to leave anyone outside starving or crying…
but a good editor (unlike me)… must possess the ability to “KILL”
when you have to… and by killing i mean to detach….
how hard is to detach… myself….
for example i have a shot that Snoop is looking at me…
it means a lot to me… ,BUT that doesnt make it a necessarily a GREAT or even a mediocre photo… shouldn’t pass the editing test,… or maybe im wrong again..
You have to be strong (not emotional) when you edit your stuff…
and i dont know how to leave my emotions outside the door….
Hmmmm, about FRIEDRICH..
Honestly i identify mostly with the “crazy person that lost all of his friends”, than the “übermensch”….
Thus Spoke Zarathustra
“…It famously declares that “God is dead”, elaborates Nietzsche’s conception of the will to power, and serves as an introduction to his doctrine of eternal return…
…The text encompasses passages of poetry and song, often mocking Judaeo-Christian morality and tradition…
“what the name of Zarathustra means in my mouth, the mouth of the first immoralist:
“…The symbol of the Übermensch also alludes to Nietzsche’s notions of “self-mastery”, “self-cultivation”, “self-direction”, and “self-overcoming”. Expostulating these concepts, Zarathustra declares:
“I teach you the overman. Man is something that shall be overcome. What have you done to overcome him?
“All beings so far have created something beyond themselves; and do you want to be the ebb of this great flood and even go back to the beasts rather than overcome man? What is the ape to man? A laughingstock or a painful embarrassment. And man shall be just that for the overman: a laughingstock or a painful embarrassment. You have made your way from worm to man, and much in you is still worm. Once you were apes, and even now, too, man is more ape than any ape.
“Whoever is the wisest among you is also a mere conflict and cross between plant and ghost. But do I bid you become ghosts or plants?
“Behold, I teach you the overman! The overman is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the overman shall be the meaning of the earth! I beseech you, my brothers, remain faithful to the earth, and do not believe those who speak to you of otherworldly hopes! Poison-mixers are they, whether they know it or not. Despisers of life are they, decaying and poisoned themselves, of whom the earth is weary: so let them go!”
– Thus Spoke Zarathustra, Prologue, §3, trans. Walter Kaufmann….”
Other aspects of Thus Spake Zarathustra pertain to Nietzsche’s proposed “Transvaluation of All Values”. This incomplete project began with The Antichrist.
“…The will to power is the fundamental component of human nature. Everything we do is an expression of the will to power. The will to power is a psychological analysis of all human action and is accentuated by self-overcoming and self-enhancement. Contrasted with living for procreation, pleasure, or happiness, the will to power is the summary of all man’s struggle against his surrounding environment as well as his reason for living in it.
Copious criticisms of Christianity can be found in Thus Spoke Zarathustra, in particular Christian values of good and evil and its purported lie of an afterlife. Nietzsche sees the complacency of Christian values as fetters to the achievement of overman as well as on the human spirit. Contrasting sharply with Christianity, Nietzsche praises lust, selfishness, while reproaching the rewarded concepts of pity and love for neighbors….”
OLIVER these are the things that attracted my spirit..
to that insane German philosopher….
and also that he abandoned living in the civilized NORTH europe for the crazy, sensual, SOUTH….
I also believe that he lived a little ahead of his time and he paid the price… i also agree with him that christianity destroyed the ancient free GREEK spirit… see “greek tragedy”…
CHRISTIANITY INTRODUCED AND ENHANCED THE IDEA OF GUILT…
Im glad that HITLER was burning his books….
That means a lot to me…
Oliver, thanks again
Isolation and finally craziness….
thanks for the question Oliver….
MARCIN…
Im glad your editing on my pics… is far away from my “emotional”
first choices…
I will never regret asking your help….
Like i said … I owe you…
thanks for your help…
drink your wine , listen to your jazz, love your woman…
and goodnite, from L.A
Panos,
very well quoted. i may read again, i think it must be 20 years now.
but how does that have an impact on your daily life?
i think you can´t “live” nietzsche, but now, as i know your philosophy, i see a lot in your comments. do you still have friends ?:-)
i must admitt, that in my youth i was more attracted to a philosophy, that highlights the individuum, like FN does. i needed it to carry on because i stood with my back to the wall. i think, i did not understand most of the things i read and i did not remember much. (to much drinks)
all this at some time came to a kind of bitterness, which i see also in FN. i didn´t wanted to live with that.
and for your editing : when i remember it right, FN says, we should embrace eternal return. :-)
ps. dont worry about your dick. you are greek, and we all know from the museeum, what that means :-)
@david ukaleq: aren’t you shooting digital? go ahead and give a few goes to see how the thing works, you don’t miss anything… basicly aperture controls the amount of light from the flash and shutter speed the ambient light… unless you can control the amount of light coming out of the flash, of course. I spent one roll on trying different combinations for the purposes I was looking for and that’s it. But maybe film is more forgiving. I’d recommend to read the stuff you can find in the strobist blog and then just experiment with any object and a light source (window, e.g.). No manual can beat the amount of experience you can obtain by experience in terms of using flash.
Re: the bodybuilding
1. I think the WHOLE point of it was to make it shocking, and “ugly”, dont you guys think so? Its supposed to jar you. I actually like that sort of stuff more, photos that stop you in your tracks. That also includes Parr who shoots “ugly” stuff that hits hard. And D’agata who aproaches “ugly” or shocking subjects in a non-postcardish sort of way.
2. herve, theres no way you can compare breasts and penises. and Anyway, they dont correspond. The male part that corresponds to the woman breast is the chest. And the female parts that correspond to dicks were not shown, though I may have missed that shot in the slideshow.
Talking about flash, Im really a fan of strong or overdone flash as Parr employs ormore recently Chris Anderson who covered the primaries.
Panos,
hows the auto WB on the M8? I met a frnech guy in Seoul who had the M8 and who hated it for night shooting because the automatic WB would go insane and his shots would be a reallu ugly orange tint. Whats worse, and he showed me, the WB would be random, taken in the same conditions at the same time it would have a totally different color tint to it. Weird. Maybe it was a bad copy. So?
ALL….
just back tonight from Norway and totally “burned”…i will be back with you by tomorrow after a bit of sleep…i have new student work to post as well as some new ideas for us….
cheers, david
MICHAEL:
the dick you’re looking for
————
Oh la, Michael, no penis envy here. One is enough for me, thank you very much… :-)
Rafal,
the WB of the M8 was horrific, terrible, almost a joke….
but the last firmware upgrade,…
FIXED the problem almost %100… if not more than that…
that’s how accurate is now….
but still…. i dont care that much either way because the only way to reveal the true potential of this camera is TO SHOOT DNG’S,(open source raw files) and with CAPTURE PRO or LE you have a whole palette of
all the possible WB’S one click away…
It wasnt only WB a problem…before!!!!
there was a whole list of problems… but the last two free firmware upgrades took care almost %99 of everything…
There is more to come..
Leica insists that they will keep the M8 open for upgrades…
even when the new 20mp sensor will come out you will be able to send the camera back… for the upgrade… they already offer a new quiter shutter … Everyother company’s dslr is obsolete every two years…. M8, 4 years later… has nothing to do with the original m8… Leica believes in upgrades , so…
but hey NO ADVERTISEMENT HERE….
last, the trick is that is rangefinder
therefore the lens sits wayyy closer to the film or sensor, also Leica refused to put a filter or IR filter in front of the sensor… so this camera sees B&W( i mean REDS and MAGENTA) in a completely different way…
than any other camera… most important it shoots DNG format… the absolutely free to any developer open raw format… unlike Nikon (nef ) and Canon raw… those two companies encrypt their files
to company preferences… If shooting nikon-canon raw… save and convert the files through PS into real raw open free source files… (DIGITAL, NEGATIVE files or DNG invented by ADOBE..)
So i only shoot dng’s, not jpgs, so therefore i ignore the Leica or any other camerasWB or B&W in camera conversions…or any other trick…. Never that…
Im astonished though with the new nikon D3 that goes ISO25000?????????????!!!!!!!
(M8 still problematic with higher ISO, though!!!)
but CAPTURE software is the answer for now….
Honestly i still believe that its not the camera that does the trick…
its the LEICA GLASS… correct me if im wrong… or ZEISS…
Nikon with a ZEISS is as good as a Leica with a ZEISS… if not better…
Last and important about rangefinders is that its easy almost require to shoot with both eyes open…
so no more wrinkles above the left eye, plus you have more to see if you keep both eyes open…
thanks Rafal.
peace
LOL, laughing like crazy…too much DICK TALK thanks to HERVE
OLIVER SAID above:
“…ps. dont worry about your dick. you are greek, and we all know from the museeum, what that means :-)
Posted by: Oliver Berner | March 09, 2008 at 07:28 PM…”
thanks Oliver, you made me laugh…
and i really needed this today….
cool
oh i forgot!!!!
PEOPLE PLEASE VISIT OLIVER’S SITE
PREETY COOL, LEICA CLEAN, BRAVO OLIVER,
http://www.Oliverberner.com/
peace
Seeing that the current conversation has drifted to the subjects of bodybuilding, penises, and the creep factor of these subjects, I must share a documentary project that might be of interest:
http://www.lovebryan.com/features/uncledirty.php
Photographer Mike Belleme takes Uncle Dirty as his subject, his 86 year old great uncle. Uncle Dirty is obsessed with bodybuilding and photographing himself in various homemade thongs. His hobby for the last decade is creating photo collages and walking on the beach.
Be forewarned: the essay may not be to everyone’s taste… could be considered offensive. Uncle Dirty is a free-spirit.
ohh i missed that too:
OLIVER asked:
“..but how does that have an impact on your daily life?
i think you can´t “live” nietzsche, but now, as i know your philosophy, i see a lot in your comments. do you still have friends ?:-)…”
Thank you for the question… I really feel better when i talk with someone that knows where i’m ( or my comments) “coming from”…
and its obvious that you have an idea… my friend…
Regarding “FRIENDS”… ??? tough question…
I wanna say… i have no friends,
but , honestly i think im wrong… actually i think i’m doing better than i originally thought…
peace man… talk to you soon!
Now
Thanks, Mike, for the link to Uncle Dirty’s. I suppose a certain cranial resemblance with our own Uncle… DAHrty is only fortuitous, ahah.
Most, I really liked the close-up shots of the old lady. What a character!
True… great MEDIUM FORMAT approach….
although some mind find it CREEPY…lol…
Herve comments:
“…Most, I really liked the close-up shots of the old lady. What a character!
Posted by: Herve | March 09, 2008 at 11:56 PM…”
Same here…. old lady looked awesome in the close-up….
but that DAHrty thing????!!
hmmm!, i dont know man, i dont know….(laughing)
sorry, i couldn’t help this one (murder was the case…)
peace
thanks for the DIRTY link.
thanks, panos. no leica, just photoshop.
On bodybuilding as ugly topic. I guess that a very formal and ‘straight’ approach could work as well. I think Arbus had a go at this in the sense that her square framings are almost identical from image to image and it’s the subject on its own that has to come out of the picture. For the primaries the flash is needed to alter a bit the enviroment and show it out of its grandeur, but if you can take bodybuilding out of its circuit I’m sure that it will reveal itself to a very simple setup.
That Uncle Dirty link was gross and memorable :oD
I think I can say that flash or no flash, penis or no penis, Mark Twain had a better mustache than Friedrich Nietzsche. His jokes work better, too.
akaky -
how can you say that about the jokes – maybe FN saw himself as a humourist and was just misunderstood. and MT´s moustache may have been as false as his name- bäh-
Nietzsche as the Andy Kaufman of German philosophy? I hadnt thought of that, but it doesnt matter, I think; clip on or not, Sam Clemens’ mustache was still better than Friedrich’s. And Twain wasnt as nutty, either.
no, he was more like a visionary, he invented the “brokeback mountain” genre.
forget that, that was childish. i agree : old “two fathoms” mustache is the best.
@PANOS
Sorry, I hope you get this. I was away for a bit and not on the internet.
It was always the music and the people that drove me to document the grunge scene. First and foremost these musicians were my friends and it became a mutually beneficial relationship as they got famous. Right place at the right time. I certainly wasn’t doing it for money, but money has come from having just done it.
But I also think it’s okay to just be fascinated with a subject as well, like I am with breakdancers (my forthcoming book). I’m not an integral part of the b-boy scene (at all) as I was with grunge but I love the energy, the people, the visual aspect etc. and I hope my images remain true to the b-boys and b-girls spirit and intention.
What I like about David’s book Living Proof is that the core of the story is about these unknown rappers from Brooklyn. Yes, it splits off from there but the images are more important than the celebrity. That’s what I tried to do with my work – I want my music images to appeal to not just grunge heads but to everyone, young and old. I’ve had 80 year old women tell me how great the pictures are despite never having been to a rock show in their life. To me good photography transcends generations and genres no matter the subject.
…I’ve had 80 year old women tell me how great the pictures are despite never having been to a rock show in their life. To me good photography transcends generations and genres no matter the subject…
CHARLES ,
thank you… you also said:
“…What I like about David’s book Living Proof is that the core of the story is about these unknown rappers from Brooklyn. Yes, it splits off from there but the images are more important than the celebrity…”
Lots of “TRUTHS” in a couple of sentences…
man, i hope i ‘ll meet you and hang with you for 10′… someday..
You knever know…!
peace.