a few days ago i hung around "backstage" for about an hour at a small circus in Oaxaca…the ring master, trapeze artists, lion tamers, dancers, etc etc , live on the road…traveling in small truck pulled trailers going from town to town entertaining mostly children who love the "wild animals", death-defying high bar acts, and the often sad clowns who make them laugh….pure and simple entertainment is their business…
we have chatted a lot lately about being creative "on the road" or drawing energy from familiar surroundings….obviously, different strokes for different folks….whatever works, works….but, i am really interested in how you see your work itself…the "function" of the work….the purpose…
the young woman above, about to go "on stage", is a performer…a bareback rider …her skill is clearly "performance art"….she uses her costume, horse and her body to entertain…some photographs are intended to communicate an idea or to journalistically portray an "event", some to show a physical place, some to explore the "inner mind" of the photographer and some falling into the category of "performance" itself..i.e. Cindy Sherman or Gregory Crewdson…
how do you see your own work? does your work communicate an idea, show what a place or person "looks like" or do you see your photographs as living representations, or even as "objects" in and of themselves…. perhaps even becoming "pure entertainment" ?
ok, im back.
filling up the glass with Grants from Scotland( not the best, but works…!)…
… and since nobody’s around except me or maybe Rafal…
let me continue…
first of all Rafal im curious why and how you chose Korea…
You definitely not the typical immigrant that goes to america to buy the big car (V8) or the big house with the swimming pool ( kinda like me)… or make the big bucks… El Dorado is not your purpose…
How the fuck did you choose Korea???… which by the way is a country that i know NOTHING about it…
I’m curious, almost fascinated…
I dont care to find out why you are there…. i care to know about the original motives of yours!??
In other words what did you see before you even go there…??? or go anywhere..?
HERVE SAID below:
“…remember being here, at parties, and laughing along with people, though i never understood what they said…”
LOL…
it happens to me in this forum alot…
especially if BOBB speaks or you or Akaky or even Marcin…
come on Herve, play fair please, (dont cheat like me)…
CHEVAL is included (combo) with the RIDER… ONE LOVE…
2-0… it seems that i love soccer as much as you do…
SOCCER??
ok, for whoever missed it the first time around… here you go…
once more.. the big game, below:
Its called being bored out of my mind in the West, Panos. I came to Korea to teach English actually. It was right after I graduated from uni..and Imajored in biochemistry LOL. It was 2001 and as you know 2002 was the World Cup, Poland was in it for the first time since 86 so I figured “hell, ill go for a year, see the WC and come back”. But never did. So about 6.5 years later, Im now pretty much settled in Seoul, put down 6 figures on an apartment and am making my living teaching English to corporate clients at big companies like Samsung…..and not thinking of leaving this place unless a)something awesome comes my way elsewhere or b) something bad happens here. So Id say boredom and soccer brought me over here. But this IS my eldorado, you know? I went to NA for a few weeks 2 years ago, to visit but I was kinda bored, and kept missing Asia. New York was cool though, i could see myself in NY if an opportunity arose.
As far as cars, big cars, no need. I drive a matiz, you know it? If I told you that gas costs 2 bucks a LITER or about 8 bucks a gallon you would understand why theres no way Im gonna get a big V8 oil guzzler. But I dont really need it. Big house? I used to live in the suburbs in Canada and my old man has a house in the suburbs of Chicago, never again. Give me an apartment in a big city close to a subway station. Im also not a big swimmer, I run:)
Matiz
Designed by Giorgetto Guigiaro, the Matiz has won international acclaim – ‘Most Beautiful Automobile’ – Milan Show & ‘Best Small Car’ – UK Motor Show.
The Matiz is the only car in India to have successfully passed the stringent 40% Offset Frontal Crash Test.
The Matiz also meets the Euro II norms.The car runs on a 796-cc engine that produces 52bhp with a torque of 7.3kg-m.
Damn, designed by GG….
Did you know that GG designed… the Nikon F4…????
… i never seen this car before around here in L.A…
My father, (in greece) 3 years ago bought a car called YARIS toyota,…
never seen that before either…. 52 horsepower???!…
smallest car around here… 300 horsepower… and wayyy up…
here everyone cries lately because the gas is up to $3 per gallon…
but here in Cali… south of Big Sur…. $5.25 for 87octane( or regular)…
In SANTA MONICA, $3.45 per gallon, for regular 87, $3.75 for 89 octane and $4.00 for super 91 , a gallon…. not a liter!!!!!
I grew up in europe… i know how expensive gas can be…
But, Americans like us over here , we dont see how cheap we still have it… the oil, i mean..
so my friends here in the US, please stop crying!!
RAFAL SAID:
“…Give me an apartment in a big city close to a subway station…”
I hope to move back in the south of europe in a few years… or at least half of a each year…
oh well, im dreaming,…
… coz once you fell in love with (LA) , CALIFORNIA, or Cali… then you can get addicted???… for life
THIS ONE IS FOR MY NEW FRIENDSHIP ,
WITH THAT COOL CAT , CALLED RAFAL…!
and it goes like this:
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=7bhxE6vcBLM&feature=related
and AGAIN:
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=cHcGmhvDlCY&feature=related
and also, my friend Rafal,
for my b&w conversions, I use Capture pro,
because it’s the only legit software out there , that actually reads
and understands the new M8 curves…
I really have no choice, since i cant afford to shoot film anymore,
or ( afford) time … clients want to see the pictures NOW…
customers in cali.
are spoiled… they know what “tethered” means and they are coming after you to see the last shot…. after shot, after shot…
so again: “F**K L.A!!!!!!!!
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=V3Kd7IGPyeg&feature=related
I use Alien skin….have you heard about it? Ive tried several methods but its the one I like most. Its a plugin I use for PS CS2…..
Digital is going to be it from now on. Even David uses digital, or used it here in Seoul.
Ahahah, Panos, you cheat to win, not to still lose 1-0….
Thanks for the link to the world cup of philosophers. I cracked up at the sight of Karl Marx warming up.
Now, how about a world cup finale of photography, what position david would be in? I say goalie. I am sure he could catch decisive moments and bounce a few shots off the frame! :-)
I love Alien Skin… but i felt guilty… and i stopped…
honestly… it’s the perfect plug-in, so perfect( it gives me all my favorite films, even ectachrome… i love it so much… i stopped using it 3 months ago… i totally feel guilty….
more tech talk…
if you use the firefox internet browser, you can use an add-on which will let you right-click on a web image and view the exif (if available). no need to download and open another program.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3905
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/5673
No guilt man…but yah, its perfect. Worth the money. The b/w films are awesome, I mean Tri X for chrissakes….the color too…
I got fed up with I Explorer yesterday, and Ive switched to Firefox:)
Damn Rafal,
Nick Yoon above nailed it….
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3905
FIREFOX is the answer…!
although i will still swear on SAFARI, coz it goes along with imail..
also people…, please try PHOTO MECHANIC…. please….
get a free trial… you’ll see!
it’s nice to see some lovin’ in spoonfuls :)))….
im tellin y’all the more we realize we’re in the same boat, the longer that dingy stays afloat ;))….
herve: “you cheat to win not to loose 1-0″ :))))))))))))))))))))))))))….you didnt loose ami, but next time i’ll cheat do by following tech talk ;))))…
cheers
b
Hi folks,
I can definitely recommend photo mechanic. it’s a great tool – very easy to use and good value for money.
http://www.camerabits.com/site/index.html
above is the link to the web site with all the info.
J.
Thanks Panos…
…hadn;t seen thePhilosophers’ World Cup in ages. A lovely touch from socrates (Clearly offside though).
nice one.
s.
I’ve been away from this blog for quite a while. Too much craziness in my life at the moment to be able to spend any quality time here.
However, I will try to make some time available this weekend to catch up so that I might learn something.
I’ll also try to formulate some thoughts on some of the subjects put forward over the last few posts.
Hope you’re in fine fettle David.
Paulyman.
Hey Rafal,
what excatly you do with your pix, once out of the box. I thought you just posted as shot, then reading you here, looked again. The blacks are fine, very onyxy, but everything else falls into the grey zone, whites rarely escape it. It seems there is some contrast lost then, but is it excatly what you want after all? Thanks.
To everyone, do you think the film effects from plug-ins really give you the original quality. I really have my doubts. Some shots look grainy, not tri-x grainy, for ex. Eentually, just like analog music (didn;t they sell filters to analogize digital sound?), we will shoot film or digital and stop using one to imitate the other, no?
David, take your time, we understand you might be….Oh, slow to respond….. ;-)
DAVID;
EMILY;
Thank you for your thoughtfull responses, it means a lot.
Best, Edward
@ nick yoon : awesome firefox tip, thanks!
I’m shooting the M8 almost exclusively now too (funny to see DAH shooting a D200, which is my other digi camera). Took me a year to finally get the M8 working right (had to exchange a body yada yada) but when it does it sure is sweet. I use Capture One for any fine art conversions, Lightroom for everyday stuff (I find C1 too clunky for an image manager). I like the Alien Skin Exposure plug-in though I usually tone down the settings to my own liking.
I refuse to buy into this digital vs film argument (anymore). They both have their places and digital has gotten to the point where it can be really hard to tell the difference. The only bad thing about digital is that has largely cut out the lab, and many photographers don’t have the post-processing skills needed to make their images look good. Before the lab would make a nicely dodged and burned print for the darkroomless. Now it’s straight from the card to the web or desktop printer. A shame.
@PANOS I’m glad to hear your explanation. Irony can get lost on the web (in the time it takes to push the send button) and come out as plain old meanness. That’s how I read it. Glad I was wrong.
Peace,
Charles
Bob, has it really come to this? Where are those children’s parents? Has our society become so debased that we now willingly allow our children to be exposed to the polka at such an impressionable age? O tempora, O mores, O brother, as the man said before feeding jelly doughnuts to the horses and shouting, back to nature, back to nature!
Michael K, Frank Sinatra annoying? Please say you’re being ironic; my back aches and my feet hurt and I’m really in no shape at the moment to pop your kneecaps off with a crowbar while the Chairman sings ‘The one that got away.’
As to Karl Marx’s shortcomings as a goalkeeper, I must point out that the same crew of sportscasters who showed up the inadequacy of the Marxist theory of surplus value when faced with a ball coming from the philosophical right were known for their linkage of soccer and the writings of Marcel Proust. This, I’ve found, is an extremely apt analogy, given both soccer and Proust’s ability to go on and on about nothing at all while the sportscasters go on and on in excruciatingly minute detail about how the nothing that isnt happening isnt happening and how the nothing that isnt happening now reminds them of something else that didnt happen someplace else. When you get right down to it, as an activity soccer resembles tennis or pornography: infinitely fascinating if you are a participant, not so fascinating if you have to watch for more than ten minutes, mind numbing if you have to watch for more than twenty minutes. People tell me that this is not a popular opinion, as soccer is the game of games outside this our Great Republic, but I am also told that people outside this our Great Republic use the metric system all the time, and can you really take the opinions of people who insist on using the metric system all the time seriously? I didnt think so. As far as I can tell, the only real advantage to the metric system is that a two liter bottle of Coke has just a little more soda in it than a half gallon bottle of Coke and that if you have to run to get rid of your beer belly, running a kilometer will get the whole unpleasant business over with in a shorter time than running a mile will.
Frank Sinatra….hmmm. Never found the attraction, and besides I think Deano had it all over him. But! I do recognize his talent, his appeal. I get why people fancy him. Not so much with country music, though.
And Polka rocks!
Herve,
actually after the conversion is done I up the contrast and play with curves and highlights/shadows. I then apply a rather strong brownish cast in color balance which is maybe whats making the whites appear like that, I dont know. But I do give the contrast quite the tweak
also, I dont think its as much trying to copy film as something else. Id make a distinction between color and b/w. With color I think its a bit of what you are saying, if I take Canon colors and then try and mimick velvia with them. That would be weird as the colors from DSLRs are quite good. But you know full well that using the b/w option in your DSLR is pretty much a bad idea…the photos suck. So, you have to convert and then we are pretty much in a gray zone.
CHARLES:
The only bad thing about digital… many photographers don’t have the post-processing skills needed to make their images look good. Now it’s straight from the card to the web or desktop printer. A shame.
—————–
It reminds me that David told us a while ago he just uses the shots as they come out, no editing (I think he claims illiteracy with any editing software as well, if I recall). Raising eyebrows?
Herve,
Well that may very well be! I’m generalizing of course – somebody who’s a mad good shooter like DAH can very well get away with that – he also comes from shooting slides where one has one chance only to get it right. I’ve always been a neg shooter and rely on lots of darkroom work (now computer). I have an Imacon so still shoot lots of neg but more and more digital is supplanting that. Gave up the darkroom altogether due to health reasons. Anyway, this could be a good discussion.
“Mirror” Joahim Ladefoget at VII website… just perfect! Have a look…
Technical question…
David (or others), regarding the flash picture, how do you work with the flash to get such a good result? I played a little with a manual flash the other day (also in a circus!) but I only got a cold light killing all colours and I decided to abandon the flash. Maybe with a TTL it’s easier… But still I think you had great flash pictures even with a simple manual flash.
David U–
You have to keep the flash softer; there are several ways to do that, especially with a D200. David’s way of using slower shutter speeds so the flash knows not to flash too hard is a great method. You can also tell the flash to use only 1/4,1/8,1/16, etc power.
Does that help?
Ciao
Michael
david ukaleq b,
In addition to what Michael Shapiro said, covering the flash head with a warming gel of some sort also helps keep down that “cold light.” Nothing more jarring than seeing a brilliant white light on the face of someone when all the light around them is a warmer yellow or amber. Unless, of course, you are going for that “look.”
david u,
measure your exposure as if you do not have a flash. e.g the face of the circus lady was -1 with your widest aperture an the longest time you can handle, then turn down the flash on -1 or -2.
…and don´t forget about the different skin tones. Davids circus foto might have looked totaly different with a circus lady from oslo .-)
sorry david u, did not read you are working without ttl. your flash then probably has a scale, like an old slide-ruler.There you can read your settings.
but the same : try to make your picture without flash, then add a little light from the flash.
i would not recommend warmtone filters or something like that in front of the flash. yes, they can make a beautiful skin tone, but also yellow teeth an eyes. but i never tried it.
best advice Harvey has given me “work out a ratio so the flash is barely there…”
My friends,
LOOK WHAT I GOT FOR YOU….
Big day yesterday…
SNOOP DOGG was banned from performing in his own city of Long Beach…. for years and years… so yesterday he “allowed to revisit and perform…”… in front of the lucky 100 Power106fm radio station winners”…
His new album drops at march 13… I photographed the show and interviews (ALWAYS HAVING DAH’S theories and suggestions about LOOSENESS…. in mind…)
I cant publish any photos yet ( waiting for stations approval yet)… but i also videotaped parts of the historic show…
with a little Leica… I posted on UTUBE a 15 sec, part….
please enjoy below
more to come..
peace
RIGHT ON..
NOW I CAN Post have of the song… yeahhh…
Ladies and gents… SNOOP DOGG, long beach… yesterday…
also, Daz, Kurupt…
I’m really excited…. i’m rolling this one for YOU!!!!
peace
Marcin,
“Mirror” grossed me out! I like the group shots, shadows, etc. but the portraits? Especially the women…just too “creepy” His war photos are much more “beautiful” and enjoyable to me than these.
I love him as a photographer and have seen some of this work when he presented at the VII Seminar I took a couple of years ago but I would never buy the book!
i feel like cathy. my concern would have been, that those photos make Caricatures of the people. His view on them as athletes, like said in the text, i can not see.
but, anyway, strong pictures. a totally different point of view, that makes them world class, i think. i wish i had the guts to do those.
Cathy and Oliver
Yes this people look like caricatures of pople but this not mean that they were used. obviosly I have no idea that Ladefoget said them “you will look like fashion star” or not.
I think photographer can always choose how he want showing our world. As a beautiful place eternal happyness or showing us who we are sometimes (not always), and then we are not look nice, or beautiful, we all look like caricatures.
But photographer must belive that he show something special, if he did photos like that only because he want hear how cool photographer he is, then his photos are useless.
best example Joel-Peter Witkin…
or Robert Mapplethorpe…
photographer in the opposite to painter or writer must use real people. If we want tell true story about world someone of us must be witkin or Ladefoget.
But of course first we should ask Ladefoget why he show this people like that.
I have this point of view because now i’m taking pictures of my friends. Every time I take more that 1000 pictures (many of this are naked), but I always said my models (my friends) that I will choose pictures witch says something not this one when they look good. I use ordinary very naive light. Many of this pictures looks just awful and stupid, but this will be not story about how nice and beautyful my friends are, but I hope it will be story about people as unity.
And I don’t think that witkin use his models, or d’agata, or me if ours models know what we looking for nad why.
And I’m looking for human soul, this light and this dark one.
will see if with success…
This is what I think.
Thanks a lot guys for your tips about the use of flash! The thing is with an ordinary thyristor flash I am not sure hoy to get “just a little light” from the flash. As far as I understand the only way to control the flash exposure is through the aperture setting…
But then if you stop down your lens, you have also less ambient light.
To take a concrete example, say that f/2 1/15 would be fine for the background but you would have someone closer to you that would require f/2 1/4. How would you do with the flash in this case? In theory if you have to stop down until, say, f/4 you could compensate by setting the speed at 1/4 but then most of the picture is probably going to be “shaky”.
Is it really easier with a TTL? I don’t have much money right now, but if it is possible to get good results easily I would seriously consider buying one. Any experience with flash and M8? Also, what sort of warming gel do you think gives “natural” results. My simple Vivitar flash was provided with some filters but they just make the picture totally orange or totally blue… You can’t do anything with that.
david ub – You have it figured out. Set the strobe to the setting where it puts out the least light. The scale will tell you f2.8 (for instance). Then set the camera at f4 or even f5.6. THEN you have to set the shutterspeed. Yeah, you may be at 1/4 or so but you should be okay. You’ll have to experiment, obviously for best results. If your subject is in the shade or no light’s hitting them (& only the strobe will light them) then that slow shutterspeed won’t matter. If there’s an equal amount of ambient light thru-out the picture then the very slow shutterspeed will perhaps allow the subject to blur and then the strobe will “freeze” part of it. This may or may not work for you. With TTL this is easier to mess with, but once you learn it with your set up you’ll have a better understanding and when you do get TTL you’ll be set.
david ukaleq b.
Regarding gels. As with everything it all depends on what you’re going for. Some people don’t use them. I do most of the time (though not all of the time) and love them. I experimented and experimented until I was happy with what I was seeing.
With digital, it depends on what white-balance your camera is set to. It also depends on whether you’re inside or outside. Sunny or shady. But since you mentioned something similar to DAH’s circus girl above, I’ll stick with that general idea.
If you’re surrounded by incandescent lights and you’re camera is set to “daylight” take a photo (no flash for the moment) and notice how the lights appear yellowish, warm. Turn your WB to “incandescent” and that warmth goes away. I like the warmth. So I’ll keep it at “daylight” WB. Now if I use a flash–ungelled–the white light will ruin (for me) the warm atmosphere. I think you talked about this above.
Now, I will throw on a 1/4 or 1/2 CTO gel and that helps bring the light back into balance. Some people prefer “straw” colored gels or “bastard amber” gels. You can get a whole bunch or swatches of Roscoe gels from most photo stores for free or for really cheap. B&H sells them for 2 cents. Look them up. Roscolux gels, I think they are called.
And as someone mentioned earlier, our generous host is well known for using bandaids over his flash to get that DAH look. I don’t know what brand or whether they are “ouchless” but apparently they work.
Experiment. Have fun!
MK
david u,
aperture sets strobe and shutterspeed sets ambient light.
marcin,
i dont want to talk any further about ladefoget, because he is not here with us, so what i say has nothing to do with his book.
i wish, i could see it a little more like you. Your approach to photography is so different to mine. i want people to like my photos.
what is a true story about the world ? for me the truth is, that every person has to be photographed in the best way, i can. nobody wants to be caricaturized.
true storys about the world i see in cathys pics. and i guess the people on the pictures would be glad to have a print.
… have to go , in a hurry
cheers
David u b,
Here’s what you might want to look at.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/45189-REG/Rosco_950SBLUX0103_Roscolux_Swatchbook.html
Also, please forgive me if the explanations above about WB and different lights and all that was something you already knew about. It was just the only way I could talk it through. Didn’t mean to presume. Hope it helps.
I have TTL but prefer to just set the flash output manually, usually starting at the lowest and adjusting from there. Of course every situation is different.
MARCIN reminds everyone….
“…”Mirror” Joahim Ladefoget at VII website… just perfect! Have a look…
Posted by: marcin luczkowski | March 08, 2008 at 03:09 AM
VII Photo – Features by Joachim Ladefoged..”
LINKS & video below:
http://www.viiphoto.com/more-feature.php?photographer=Joachim%20Ladefoged
“Mirror” bootleg video
Marcin says perfect, i think its more than perfect….
Thank you Marcin… for reminding….thats fine art….
a study on the human mind so NOT NatGeo….
His (Ladefoged) work is a great “TEST”….
Thank god it looks SCARY and CREEPY and who knows what else…
for the expired ,the old, bored , unproductive eyes ,
judges of all kind , out there…
It’s funny when the “weak” try to cover up “lealousy” with judgements… actually is sad…
The “weak, scared minded” think….
“No, no, no, i dont like Ladefoged or Saudek…. they are creepy,
i will have nightmares, its not in my comfort zone…”
Ansel Adams is great… lets stick with that…
OLiver said( sorry i skipped your comment above, just read it…)
.”my concern would have been, that those photos make Caricatures of the people…”
But Oliver those bodybuilder people ARE caricatures… are weird and different… are sellfish and All that…
They deserve, beg , look for a different approach…
thats why these photos are “perfect”… because those
“athletes”!!!???, got what they were asking and looking for….!!!!
Whats wrong of photographing a caricature the way it is????
Why bother to turn a caricature into “people”…. why lie???
why dont you let Ladefoged to photograph the caricatures the way they are???? or actually let them represent themselves??????
Why the need to turn everything into a “human”?, “people”…
We killed the “ANIMAL” in the name of a “PET”….
Let me tell you why….
“FEAR”…. thats why i suggests, that if anyone feels “fear”..
please stick with the audience,… leave the artist alone…
Punish the photographer?????!!!!!!!!…
like someone sadly suggested above,….
DO NOT BUY HIS BOOK, LET HIM STARVE, TEACH HIM A LESSON…!!!!!????
or even better, follow Hitler’s suggestions, and BURN the artist’s book…
how sad… for 2008….
oh well…
Marcin, still tries to enghliten people, but in vain…
“…photographer is the opposite to painter or writer must use real people. If we want tell true story about world someone of us must be witkin or Ladefoget…”
Its funny Marcin how some still believe that “pictorialism”…
should be the only accepted form of photography…. Beautiful landscapes, or cliche war pictures, like someone said above….
Once more, thanks again Marcin for bringing up J. Ladefoged..
peace
Panos, Snoop aint really my speed. This is more like it for me:
Panos,
you are totally right and so, obviously, is ladefoged, that´s why he is at VII and i have to struggle with my clients and make them look good and feed their egos. I WISH I COULD SEE LIKE LADEFOGED, but i can´t. but im quite new in photography and maybe my point of view changes with the time. and i´m quite sure that the people in the book will be honoured to be in his book.
BTW as i am german and my english is not so perfect, i do not get all the stuff about fear and weakness and so on you are talking about. But it seems to be something thats quite often in your postings.
follow Hitler’s suggestions
—————-
Wow, Panos! Hitler, really?…
“Hitler’s suggestions” were to enforce unanimity, Cathy and Oliver are just individuals who beg to differ with other’s opinions maybe. Why bully them into the blog’s corner with a dunce cap with “pictorialist” written on it like some…yellow star?
The series did not elicit a great interest in me (I had to struggle not to think they were body-building coal miners), but I am just wondering why do we see the breasts of the woman and not the dicks of the guys. I always though that the best critical, challenging look at extreme body-building should be brought up by showing the big muscles against “le petit zizi”. You say animals, I agree, it would even make a lot of topical (intense grossness) sense to shoot the guys with a hard on.
That Ladefoget, I tell you, another one going for the “incomplete” look… :-)))))
Herve NAILED IT
“…but I am just wondering why do we see the breasts of the woman and not the dicks of the guys…”
Herve if you ever visit Greek museums…
you will see dicks cut of from statues….( ottoman’s felt insulted when they witnessed that…
if you check through magnum the “taliban” art???!…
you will see cut of heads from photos, or anything….
Hitler- ottomans- talibans….
what do they have in common?????
Their hate for fine or “progressive”… art…
so please go ahead and dont buy ANY photographers books…
or better , burn them…
and HERVE…
who said i disagree with OLIVER…???
READ what he wrote below???
“…but, anyway, strong pictures. a totally different point of view, that makes them world class, i think. i wish i had the guts to do those.
Posted by: Oliver Berner | March 09, 2008 at 04:20 AM…”
HOW CAN I DISAGREE with Oliver on that….
get a second cup of coffee Herve, please
… plus Herve,
the roots of bodybuilding is based on the “small dick” theory…
so dont expect to see a complete naked bodybuilder any time soon…
coz… the “contrast” (big muscles all around, small in the center),
will turn any caricature into a CARICATURE….
PEACE