avalon …..

avalon pier


i am not a fisherman….if you want to catch a fish, do not go fishing with me… i bring almost as much bad luck to fishing as i do to computers…i did catch a pretty good sized bass once with my grandfather, but that is about it….but, never mind, i  do love the thought of fishing….and i live in a place where if the talk is not about surfing, it is about fishing…and i end up staying  pretty silent on both…down here on the Outer Banks, my trade is just not in the conversational mix…in New York of course, photographers have some clout, but here, well, if i wanted to talk photography,  i would have to take a picture of the locals with a big fish, or riding a big wave…

i do however gravitate towards the 7 fishing piers here, and most often the Avalon Pier….if this pier did not exist, then it would have to be invented…a classic structure from the 50’s which has survived many a storm and not survived many a storm…but, this old pier just keeps getting re-built and is a cultural haven if fishing, pool playing, fuzbol competition and people watching are your game…the latter is my sport of choice…someday i suspect this primo waterfront property will end up covered with time-share condos or whatever, but in the meantime i can go have a beer and watch the waves roll in between rounds of 8-ball…

the beauty of Avalon for me is that it is a total diversion for whatever i am supposed to be seriously doing…i suspect all of you have your Avalon…an escape from the must do activities of your day….a place where nobody really knows what you do, nor cares,  and you are only judged by whether they like you or not…well, in the case of Avalon, if you have a big jacked-up pickup truck, that helps, but i just have to go on eye contact and a decent game of pool….

now, i basically have not worn shoes for weeks….but the  summer of my content is almost over…..and the timing of the sun working its way towards the south each day pretty much matches my mood to get back to New York…funny, but when i tell the guys down here that i spend lots of time in New York, they really give me a look of sympathy…..and having spent weeks here this summer i am starting to see what they mean…

it is a good thing i had so much leisure time this summer…because now i go full bore into a very busy fall….i receive so many private emails from readers here asking for my schedule, so here is the official dah program

first order of business will be your Burn gallery shows in New York and Washington (contact for you: Michael Courvoisier)…simultaneously i have my fall workshop schedule starting in San Francisco where i do a short weekend shooting seminar – starting September 25th – with the Momenta folks organizing(see Workshops)……

then comes  my annual loft seminar  “At Home” in the now historic “kibbutz” where about half the readers here have been at one time or another, and the other half are on their way…we will also do your Burn gallery show right around that time … incidentally, i have our first Burn intern, Vivek Manik, who has come all the way from Calcutta, to give us a hand with the show….Vivek will be a work/study student in the loft class….from now on i will always choose someone from the readership here on Burn to be an intern either in New York or with me on assignment…

after the  New York Burn show, i  roll back down here to the Outer Banks for my first gathering of photographers at my beach home who want to publish books or work on an essay …we will do hand-made books and discuss and prepare layouts for mainstream books as well….others may just want to shoot instead of make a book…their choice…my darkroom will be set-up…the pigment printer at the ready etc….my Outer Banks beach cottage will become for sure my #1 workshop location, but for very small selective classes…

at the end of October, i roll down to Oaxaca, Mexico for the colorful Day of the Dead class (see work from students last year on workshop link) …. and finally, capping off my month of mentoring, i will join my friends Ira Block and Kris LeBoutillier, both NatGeo photogs, in Bangkok and Phnom Penh in early November…

so anyone wanting to join me with my obviously eclectic lifestyle has a few choices……afterwards i plan to disappear into a magazine assignment….shhhh, secret…. and  work only on my book project which is a bit behind…well, i am always a bit behind on book projects……anyway, lots going on…

all this world travel and setting up of exhibit space for your work is hard work , but fun work…but, without Mike, Michelle, and Marie,  i just could not make it…Mike Courvoisier  makes my collectors prints, will manage the Burn shows,  and runs the New York loft workshop … Michelle Smith and Marie Arago run the OBX beach and Mexico workshops respectively …Michelle has produced ad shoots for me which is the test of all production tests…Marie worked for me every day in NYC before she moved to the warmer climes of Miami…. now, all of this has to do with balance….my main mantra…balance…making hard work fun and making fun hard work….or, actually , just getting the most out of life…

ok, enough said…. it is about time to head for Avalon…the wind now is starting to clock around from the northeast…that means  good fishing, poor surfing,  and winter is coming…

do all of you have your Avalon???  i do recommend creating an Avalon if you do not have one…to catch a fish??  maybe…but, that is not the point…the act of fishing is more important than catching fish…or, at least that is what i tell myself when i am fishing with my camera and it just is not happening…

-david alan harvey


water view

one of my old camera bags goes to the first person who can name the movie that featured this house….

2147 Responses to “avalon …..”

  • Nights in Rodanthe…

  • Darn Adam beat me by one minute

  • Oh well, I’m in 3rd place. Good thing I already have one of your bags :))

    Nights in Rodanthe.
    Never saw the film but Chris Bickford showed and wrote about this house in one of his essays that was published recently.

  • My “Avalon” also has a pier but instead of the ocean it’s on Lake St. Clair, a body of water connecting two of the Great Lakes. I’m on the Michigan side of the lake but can see Ontario if I look to the southwest (Yes, Canada is south of Detroit!). It is small compared to its neighbors, Lake Huron and Lake Erie, but large enough that, looking straight across, you can’t see the other side. A horizon of water and sky “peopled” by Canadian Geese, seagulls, ducks and the occasional blue heron. And fisherfolk in all kinds of weather, even ice fishing when the lake freezes over. This treasure is just two blocks from my house so I scoot down there summer, fall, winter and spring. This summer I’ve been down to the water at least once a day, and even when the weather turns, that’s where I go to soothe my soul. What a gift!


  • ADAM..

    ok, you got the bag…unless you want to be a gentleman and give it to Valery??? how is THAT for putting you on the spot?? laughing….

    bad movie…it looked like Richard Gere and Diane Lane hated each other off camera….


    yes, i am in Bickford’s territory (with his permission), but i did not see his post on this house…it just happens to be one of the most popular surf spots by sheer coincidence of shifting sands…


    too bad i missed that part of your neighborhood when i visited…i knew by the map where you were, but never saw the water while in your hood….next time….that is, if i can get an invitation back…

    cheers, david

  • David,

    ‘Burn’ might actually be my Avalon…I come here enough…

    Colchester, Ontario, is a small village about a half hour from where I live. It is one of the few areas around that has actual elevation – Windsor/Essex County is as flat as the prairies – and a shoreline. I go there more frequently just to watch the waves from a certain height. Recently I discovered there are wineries nearby. I like wine so now I’m developing a ‘wine makers’ photo idea. Which is strange as I fancy myself a ‘hard core’ photojournalist whose last decade of work has been doing ‘dramatic work in the heart of Africa’. Why in the world would I do a wine making essay in boring Essex County? I’ll find out soon enough…


  • my Avalon….

    in the arms of my wife….

    and my son nearby…

    running (for real)


  • I am not seeing a house in that photo . . .

  • I like Richard Gere, I love Diane lane.

    I HATED THAT MOVIE. “Message in a Bottle” all over again…. another “uplifting movie”

  • Did I mention that movie sucked?


    Didn’t know you were a pool player…. hmmm, 8-ball? I think I have played that once or twice…. (grin)
    Maybe you and I need to set up a little mentor exchange program between the two of us?

    Now my turn at a photo critique… That house shot… Not bad, but a bit more depth in the layering would have made it spectacular. I am thinking getting in a bit CLOSER on the girl… MUCH closer. Then the surfers in the next layer then the house.

    Remember… “If your pictures are not good enough, you are not CLOSE enough! HA!

  • PETE…

    i am not much of a pool player most of the time…some games are better than others…Courvoisier and i did beat Anton and Mike Young after Look3 in a rambling playoff series…or, that is how Mike C. and i remember it anyway…

    you are right on the photo critique…prudence however got in my way, since i did not know the woman in the foreground and there are beach RULES for just moving in too far, too fast…ironically, and coincidentally, i did meet this woman while getting my car fixed at the local garage a week later…so, next time i will make the proper shot….

    cheers, david

  • My ‘Avalon’? When I’m in Vancouver, it’s Lonsdale Quay on the North Shore, terminal for the Sea Bus and site of a great multi-ethnic food court and fresh produce fruit-vegetable-fish-meat-bakery market. Along with the North Shore locals and commuters, tourists from all over Canada and all over the Pacific Rim come here for the casual outdoor dining and fabulous view of the harbor traffic and the skyscrapers of downtown in the distance. I can hear and practice all of the nine languages I’ve studied off and on, and try to identify the ones I haven’t.

    When I’m stuck at home in Bellingham, my ‘Avalon’ becomes the main campus center at Western Washington University, with a classic big tree-lined grassy quad, a decent library, a stunning view from the terrace overlooking Bellingham Bay and the city far below, a Performing Arts Center, an OK student cafe, ATM machines, and a mini-post office with very short lines. A brisk walk or a short bus ride from where I live.

  • Wow I just saw it. That’s a Chica. Whoa, that’s some slick work.

    Sorry… it just came out.

  • really, DAH —
    sorry if this is male-centric but ladies, you can’t blame us — it’s your fault dah — yow — what house indeed?

  • David;

    My Avalon is wherever I happen to be shooting personal work with my camera. Now that probably sounds weird, so let me explain. As I’ve mentioned before I’ve spent most of my working life in a supermarket, which by the end I absolutely hated.

    When I have my camera in my hand and shooting (esp the youth project) I feel as though I’ve escaped a “past life” where I never really fitted or felt comfortable.


  • /\ :o)

    man, the number of surfers on that wave.. what a place..

  • avalon is the open road, places unseen, people unmet, wonder awaits
    and then, avalon is home

  • 100mm? zoom? say it ain’t so shoeless ;-))

  • Boy… that’s a term I haven’t heard in a long long while…. “jacked-up.” What does it say about me that I even know what “jacked-up” pickup truck is? Heh!

  • I can’t believe they were able to do a full frame digital Leica. I just got my M8.2 in April. . . how to sell it towards paying for an M9??? There are no real labs here in Bucharest, so a digital Leica is key. . .

  • David

    How good to see yours photos here on burn. I miss it. I wish more… but I know… I know :)

    Sorry I am little off last time. I am busy. No time to read, no time to think. And will be even worst.

    peace and good luck
    Let the force be with you

    I am going to bed, next to my Avalon

  • Is there a house in that photo? Where?

    Oh, somebody made that joke already.

  • Working toward ArtPrize… I’m one of those Americans opens September 23rd, reception the 24th here in Grand Rapids, MI. I’m a wreck in need of funding… seeking Harvey’s serendipity!!


  • “There are no real labs here in Bucharest, so a digital Leica is key. . .”

    now, there is a leap of logic :o)

  • Davin has taken up as the resident gear monkey of Bucharest…… all show with no show

  • David, What a surprise. I didn’t know you hung out at Avalon Pier. No wonder we haven’t seen you in over a week. My Avalon is on Hatteras Island. If you don’t believe me, check my blog.

  • David Bowen: no leap of logic: people are paranoid of photographers here. Photographing with my Canon is like using a weapon. Passersby fixate on it hanging on my shoulder. A Leica digital is compact and can shoot RAW rapidly. No current digital point and shoot allows for this. I dare others to come here to Bucharest and try shooting on the street with an SLR and see how that goes for you!

    Imants: oh thanks alot ‘all show with no show’. I am just getting down to things on the computer with like the equivalent of 400 roles of film as digital files on my hard drive to start going through. Most of what I have shot in the past few years has never sen the light of day. I aim to change that.

  • Davin you are label fixated, porsche dreaming, best leica …..no need for all that fixation. people shoot DSLR in more hostile environments without a problem


    You have an open invite to share my Avalon here in the grand state of Michigan! Fresh-ground coffee waiting for you in the freezer and I think we’ve even got a couple Corollas hanging around from your last visit…


    Y’all come too. The more the merrier ;=)


  • DAH — I’ll risk coming across as a cad and take the bag. ;-) Sorry Valery…

  • Imants, war with a fixer is different. . . again come here and see for yourself :) I am serious. It is all due to Ceausescu and the oppression and paranoia of the secret police. Yes, you can use an SLR in normal European countries without problems. Not so here. I can only report my own experience, but I have routinely been harassed on the street.

  • David,

    I’ve sent an e-mail, again.

    Your today’s photo makes me very fresh and aspiring.
    I love sea-smells very much… deep breath… :)))

    Thank you.

  • davin

    might well come visit you .. any good music festivals?

    looking at your blog – the street photos you have shown almost exclusively feature women, and some are pretty in-your-face.. bearing in mind that people tend to watch us when we work, could there be something in your technique which is bringing trouble, more than you tools?

    having shot in E. europe since 1991.. with big ol clunky machines.. i’ve rarely had trouble..


  • the link i’m refering to – http://nordichigh.wordpress.com/2009/08/28/new-project-bucharest-20-years-later/

    i like your rural work, and well done for the photoshelter featured image.

  • When I was a teenager there was a pier near Galveston that was pretty much what you picture and describe. It was a very long pier. A friend and I would go there (he had a car) and fish all night, smoke cigarettes and listen to the Beatles on a little transistor pocket radio. Never forget the smells and the sound of those AM radio stations fading in and out on the night air.

    Great memories. Thanks for posting the photo!

  • DAH,

    The movie is “Nights In Rodanthe”. And the lady in the red t-shirt is my aunt. I want DAH bag.
    PS I haven’t seen the movie

  • Adam,

    Chivalry is dead, but I guess you did win it fair and square. Thanks anyway David :-)


    I just wanted to agree with what you posted to Patricia on Stray Cat.

    “photographers should of course be aware of all of the “facts”, yet i do not think every single fact requires an accompanying photograph…the very best photographs do what words can never do and the very best words do what photographs can never do…”

    Excellent comments about editing.

    I think it may be interesting to post a set of images and have everyone discuss editing the set. An online editing class if you will.

  • DAH

    “I went out with nothing
    nothing but the thought of you
    I went wandering”
    Jonny Cash

  • my AVALON?!?
    catalina island…
    of course….

  • First thing… Exceptional speech! (’nuff said.)

    Also, my Avalon… a little coffee cart in a shopping parking lot in Mill Valley CA. David, you must try and find it when you’re out there. There’s an Ethiopian blend that just kills! I know you would appreciate it.

    Finally, let me know your DC dates. Must have a beer or 3 or 4… !


  • ALL

    You can watch President Obama’s speech on Health Care Reform that he gave tonight to a joint session of Congress by clicking on this link:


    What Obama had to say resonates strongly with the American Nightmare Michael McElroy shows and writes about in his essay. As he said, “I am not the first president to take up this cause, but I am determined to be the last.” May it be so!


  • Well that’s good news Patricia. I wish him success with it – not only for the sake of Americans but the trend in Australia in recent times has been towards the Americanisation of our health care system and I hate that. Not because its American but because the system is so bad and it is sucking funds out of the public system. I will go read the speech soon. Thanks for the link.

    The word Avalon means nothing to me. I live in Paradise. This morning I went for a drive to town and as we rolled along the coast road with a gorgeous calm azure sea on my right, my companion and I noted what a beautiful day it was and how lucky we were to live here. For me its more luck than anything since i was brought here to grow up when I was just a toddler. On the way to town, we crossed a bridge where one can regularly see a saltwater crocodile sunning itself on the mudflats and a few fisherman standing on an old bridge hoping to catch dinner. At the end of the day we go down to the beach and stroll 1.5km of sand with nothing but she-oaks and the odd coconut palm on the left on the way North and with blue hills in the distance. When we turn round we amble towards a green pyramid shaped hill, and observe the puffy clouds drifting over. Our crazy dog likes to dig holes for crabs or carry a log the length of the beach which amuses all who see her. Often times we stop to exchange greetings and gossip with other locals.

    I am very lucky. But to make life exciting, I need to leave paradise from time to time and head into the less than perfect world where everyone else lives and where shit happens and where there is something interesting to photograph.

  • Oh Andrea, thank you SO MUCH for taking me with you to Paradise! Your description captures all my senses and makes me love life even more than I already do.


  • Actually I like your series of pretty girls Davin. And “onya” for doing it in colour. But your series and what you say in general reminds me of a job I had once. One day the boss wanted me to type up a job applicant assessment form. Every second question was to do with the appearance of the applicant. Like you, my hoary old boss was fixated on something that he obviously wasn’t getting and didn’t look like getting any time soon but was desperate for. I suggest that your pictures say a lot more about you than about the place and people you are photographing. Nothing wrong with that I guess but I wonder if you are aware of it?

  • Music. Playing Music. Listening to Music, is My inward place. Dreams are also..

  • AndreaC

    You and I are lucky to live in beautiful places. Here is Martha last week in a park near us, giant cedar and douglas fir trees some over 800 years old.

  • Okay, my last political post … could not pass this up …

    Hitler finds out Obama will address school children

  • avalon part one right now is our balcony.. lived here a month and adore it..

  • avalon part two is walking in the hills from our front door.. baby boy likes to stroke trees

  • avalon part three involves beate, a bottle, a sumptuous couch and some good lovin..
    *photo unavailable*

  • AVALON is not a refuge, or a secret garden. It’s my “raison d’ etre”.

    And one of the best pop songs ever as well, yes Anna! (Lisa was wrong, if I have any match from Heaven, or Avalon, it’s you. Ouh lala!)

    So, once again:


  • I really like Pete Marovich idea of an on line edit. Also from Burn reader.
    We were discussing about that with Audrey on a sunny afternoon in Cafè de la Poste (in front of a giant ice-cream). We were missing the shared review we use to make in Road Trip.
    Personal Heven is where I live (I’m lucky), whereever I go (I could do a very long list:) ), the music I listen to, the books I read. And time spent with friends.

  • uff… I admit I just wrote a rhetorical post…but the list of my Avalon is so long….

  • well.. i have a foreign commission over the last weekend of the month which might be interesting to throw open..
    it would not make any difference to my own edit-for-clients, but if people want to see i could post?

  • hand grenades, imants..
    irresistible to fish.

  • Cartography is important! ;^}

  • Congrats to Michael F. McElroy for the very timely publication of one of his photos in NY Times.



  • Heh-heh!

    Hey David, how’s that balcony view from Bergen? Still amazing?

  • well – been sitting in a cloud for much of the month.. fierce weather.. autumn in bergen does not f&*k about.
    will get going on converse again soon..
    baby starts nursery this month..

  • Congratulations, Michael, McE!!!!! That is a BIG deal to have your photo accompany such an historical event. Last night it appeared as one of six photos under the lead article on the NY Times web site. No small potatoes, that!


  • Michael’s photo can also be seen in this collecion of photos on the NY Times web site:


  • And another of Michael’s photos can be seen here:


    WOW!!! Good for him…


  • DAH…

    Would it be possible for me—or anyone else interested—to participate long distance to the book publishing gathering at the Outer Banks? Maybe a skype type of thing or a live feed from the “central command”—say the living room or wherever the majority of the gatherings/discussions will take place?

  • The house is from “Nights in Rodanthe”. Saw it on a plane, I swear. Dreadful.

  • LAURA….

    we have had a few shared reviews here in the last month or so…you just did not happen to be on at the time….however, mostly now i review work by Skype which is so much more beneficial to the photographer because in half an hour or so we can cover more territory than in days and days of online chat…the last one i did was with Ross Nolly, and David Bowen before that, so you may ask them what they think about the skype method…but, if you want a shared review here, we can do it…you must remember however, that on Road Trips, where we did have more shared reviews in the comments, i was not publishing any photographs at all of the readers here…..now if submit, you have a chance for international exposure which was not happening on the old blog…in any case, your suggestions and ideas are always welcomed, and i think you know by now i will do all i can to make Burn beneficial to you one way or another….


    i am working on enlisting a system where we can have some group participation online…there are various conferencing systems…yes, somehow bringing Burn readers in on the book workshop would be interesting indeed….please be patient, for i cannot do everything at once..now, my priorities are just to get the gallery bit going and seeking sponsorship possibilities for Burn reader commissions…and just the daily edit here takes quite a lot of Anton’s time and my time…if we can get some funding to add a couple of people to help us here at Burn, then the possibilities are endless…anyway my friend, one thing at a time, one thing at a time…many thanks for your patience…

    cheers, david

  • GlENN…

    you are next up for an edit….thanks for waiting…


    i just started going up to Avalon this summer on a regular basis…still like breakfast on the Nags Head pier however and it is a bike ride…….i will come down to see you in the next few days, or you know my door is open here…best to both you and Denise…oh yes, you must come to see my darkroom and make your suggestions…

    cheers, david

  • such an historical event


    Thank you, Yes I lose a lot of things in a month of african isolation :)
    I’ll check with Ross Nolly and David Bowen – and may be finally I will decide to install and use skype…

  • LAURA…

    yes, try it …you will like it…and it is free…really

  • CARL…

    nice to see you here…i have been wanting to contact you…send me private e-mail?? yes, one of the worst movies of all times…locals had fun being extras…they did just fine..but, the two stars?? and the dialogue?? just painful….

  • a civilian-mass audience


    no time to address the nation…My computers are down :(((


    BURN, my AVALON…
    Am I the winner ??? :)))
    May your Avalon be as lovely as you dreamed of …

    How manu times shall I say THANK YOU MR.HAD
    Thank you Anton
    Thank you Michele Smith
    Thank you Marie Arago
    Thank you Michael Courvoisier
    Thank you Mr.Harvey’s family
    Thank you BURN readers
    Thank you BURN writers
    Thank you….you, you

    P.S HAIK…how much for long distance consultation ?
    Computers … F11 reboot doesn’t work.
    Can I e-mail at the CONVERSES ROUGES ???

  • a civilian-mass audience


    Is the goddess in the second photo…photoshopped ???

  • a civilian-mass audience

    before I go…

    what is in the menu tonight…
    fish ???

    keep SHOOTING …I am eating baklava

  • hi laura..
    download skype http://www.skype.com/intl/no/
    you can add me – bophoto is my skype name and we can have a chat.

    i blogged about it as well..

  • CARBANARA civi.. carbanara..

  • David; “please be patient, for i cannot do everything at once” Hmmmm, it seems to me that you give it a pretty good try!! :-)


    The Skype hook up was amazing. I didn’t think I could learn so much in 45 minutes. So yes; it is definitely worth it. Only one problem; and that was my inability to get my end of the video working, but after a couple of minutes providence prevailed and it all worked ok!

    I’m one of those people that only knows what he needs to know when it comes to IT stuff, so it was probably a fluke for me to get it working! And it was my first go at using skype (my excuse and I’m sticking to it!) :-)


  • Laura;
    As an aside; I’d hate to think how long it would take to get the same amount of information sharing via a tennis match of emails…


  • DAH, I just visited Carl Bower’s site, Powerful stuff. It’s finding gems like that that make visiting this site a true joy.

  • Just had an email from the LOOK3 coordinator Andrew O, and it seems there will be another fabulous LOOK3 next year!


    i do not know how to use photoshop….i should, but i don’t

  • ERICA…

    hmmmmm, i had lunch with Andrew last weekend and he told me they were not having the normal Look3 next year….told me that Burn should organize something, but it would be more of a camping out Woodstock type of thing with emerging photographers as the main attraction..i guess they changed their mind???

  • I had an interesting experience yesterday. I did a talk and slide show on Timor Leste for a local branch of U3A (University of the Third Age). About 70 people turned up, aged from mid to late 60’s upwards.

    After the talk I showed them a selection of twenty images from my youth project. I was interested to try a dummy run of the images with an older demographic to gauge their response. I suppose it was also a way of seeing whether the perceived stereotype of older people being “judgemental” of youth was true.

    I explained the reasons for doing the project (debunking stereotypes etc) and was really interested in their positive responses to both the images and project intent. One man said that after seeing the images he wishes he was 17 again! But again it made me think how easy it is to apply stereotypes to older folks too.

    I found these quote the other day, and thought them interesting…

    “The youth gets together his materials to build a bridge to the moon, or, perchance, a palace or temple on the earth, and, at length, the middle-aged man concludes to build a woodshed with them” Henry David Thoreau.

    “It is an illusion that youth is happy, an illusion of those who have lost it; but the young know they are wretched for they are full of the truthless ideal which have been instilled into them, and each time they come in contact with the real, they are bruised and wounded” W. Somerset Maugham.


  • I’m sorry, what house?

  • DAH – it must be breaking news…

    “We plan to build on that momentum (this past Festival) as we move into 2010 and next June.  The details aren’t final yet, but LOOK3 is planning a festival next summer; we aren’t going dark as some rumors have suggested.  What we have in store for 2010 is really exciting and we will be sending out more info this fall.”

  • Or maybe a LOOK Woodstock is the plan!

  • “Orca” from ’77 comes to mind but that house that fell into the sea was white, I think. Hmmm.

  • I love those two quotes Ross.

    I forget who said that “youth is wasted on the young”.

    I’d love to have my 20 year old body back, but the rest?, no thanks. I think my brain didn’t really kick in until I was in my fifties.

  • nights in rodanthe

  • Gordon;

    Twenty again? Only if I knew then what I know now!! :-) Or maybe not; the joy of discovery is pretty damn good too…


    I’m with you. Funny thing, my 82 year-old friend Dorothy and I were just talking about this subject yesterday. I was saying I wouldn’t even want to go back one month much less 20-30 years. Dorothy said she wouldn’t mind having her young body back but not all the rest. We agreed that NOW is the best time of our lives!


    I sure hope your news about LOOK3 proves to be the real thing. I would LOVE to return to that world of “peace, love and photography” in 2010. 2011 seems SO far away!


    Yes, Carl Bower’s work is exceptional. And he is an exceptional human being as well. Carl is the person who made an overnight trip to Detroit in July to help me with the text for my book. And he did so simply because he’d seen my book dummy and had heard me speak to Gene Richards workshop class in C’ville. Talk about a generous-spirited man!


  • my personal “avalon” is … usually , the bathroom…:)

  • Patricia,..yes absolutely.

    I’m not even sure I’d want my younger body back. There is comfort and something spiritual about experiencing the aging of our bodies. I don’t mind getting older, and as I get older, the reality of my mortality matters less and less. I’m even starting to feel a glimmer of wisdom.

    My wife Martha and I, when we do our daily little connection ritual, often speak about this being absolutely the best time of our lives.

    I’m fascinated and very inspired by your project. I can’t wait for the book.

  • Heaven’s to Betsy, why does Bob have to use so many words? I guess it’s the essay accompnaying the exhibition because if its just for Burn, its just too much for me and I almost missed the most important fact that I needed to make this essay work for me. Grrrrrrrrrrr.

    When i’ve recovered, I can go and have another go at a comment. Later. Later.

  • Out on a limb.

    Ok. Can someone please enlighten me. How do you all know each other? Do you even all know each other? It often looks like it. Is this forum a private affair? It rather looks like that which means that I must be an intruder. But I am inclined to think not.

    I have other questions, about photography, but I’m afraid I will be shot down for my ignorance, so I don’t ask since no one here asks questions of a similar nature. And while you might think there are other places to ask these questions, I’ve not found them. I know many of you would know the answers though.

  • Gordon;

    All this talk about age reminded me of a conversation I had with my mum and dad the other day. We were talking about the terms “old man” and “old lady” as being regarded a term of disrespect when used instead of “mum and dad”. E.g “we’re going to visit the old man and old lady tonight”

    It’s not a phrase I use, but plenty do. But if you had said someone was a young man or lady no one would take offence? Is it because we (speaking mostly of modern western cultures) hold anyone who is “old” as being lesser?

    I often think that we don’t hold older people in high enough esteem. Whereas in many other cultures older people are looked up to and highly respected. Maybe it’s a trait of consumerism? I don’t know, I just thought it was an interesting concept.


    “How do you all know each other? Do you even all know each other?”

    Many people on here have met up in real life in the US and in Europe, for the rest of us it’s an “online friendship” It’s pretty difficult for us in the Southern Hemisphere (for me; NZ), to meet up with others :-) But the online friendships are great.

    As for questions; just ask away; someone usually answers. It just depends how “active” things are that day. However we usually shy away from “technical” camera stuff. I hope that helps!


  • andrea – yups.. ask away.. it’s a friendly crowd here..

  • andrea c:

    ‘heavens to betsy’….

    it’s the forward i wrote for the book…..and it’s not a ‘comment’ for burn, but an essay written to accompany Marc’s project….no, not exclusively for burn, but published here first….

    it was written for marc…..


  • in book form it’s going to be great bob.. a really well crafted introduction which will add to the ‘reading’.. – perhaps you can tell us – will more of marcs ongoing project feature in the book?
    i remember seeing the workshop photos and an evolution on that story as well..


  • Andrea finds it difficult to see beyond herself………


    you are in the right place to ask questions…so, please ask away…..many writers here simply
    “know each other” from right here…..just as we are getting to know you….i had a blog Road Trips for about three years and that evolved into Burn where readers could have their work published and viewed worldwide..one of the spin offs from the blog and Burn as well, is that in my travels i have met many of the readers and writers here..whenever i go to anywhere in the world, i tip off the audience here and we all meet..i have also mentored several photographers here by editing their work if they take the time to track me down….i.e. Patricia’s soon to be published book Falling Into Place was a work in progress that all who have visited here in the last couple of years watched firsthand…Mike Young’s soon to be published book Blues, Booze, and BBQ the same…i have at least three other books projects going on here as well….you might want to spend some time searching the archives of Burn, which includes the three years of Road Trips as well…

    i spend some of my time mentoring very serious photographers who will either enter the profession of photography or are at least very seriously involved with gallery shows and book publishing….but, i also have relationships with photographers who take their work seriously, but have no intention of earning their living as photographers…. and many of the readers/writers here are not photographers at all….what i have to offer those who are interested is pretty simple…i am a struggling photographer myself..yes, perhaps with a bit more experience, but with all of the same things to overcome as everyone here…i know the difficulty of creating a style and then taking a magazine assignment and getting the work to speak from a personal level….i know the pressure of doing commercial work and having even that reflect this style…and i know the steps to take in getting a book published or securing gallery representation……mostly, i try to have photographers think about the “why” of what they do so they will have something to say with their work….this is the most important thing…having a point of view and being able to express it…so, this goes for the journalistic photographers as well as the photographers who prefer inner expression and more esoteric manifestations…

    there is no doubt in my mind the most value for being here is what all of you learn from each other…i just provide the location…the meeting point…i do it online and i do it in “real life”….by the way, the audience of Burn goes way way beyond the writers here in the comment section…what seems like a little “club” is very misleading…we have so many regular readers who never write…that is why i constantly and consistently tell writers here to think before they write…thousands read every word you write Andrea…and if you have some work to show, then we are ready to take a look….

    cheers, david

  • Imants find it’s difficult to do more than make snide remarks.

  • I had an aunt like you Andrea, sorta had that bossy nature that you emulate…Grrrrrrr as you do to others

  • hey.. my dads the biggest :)

    harvey seems to have a way of recruiting people .. a sincere interest in meeting other snappers which is refreshing.
    i think i have met 5 or 6 people from here now.. it would be great to meet more in the states at some point.. who knows.. maybe perp will be a big meet up next year..

    only met people from on here over the past year.. whats exciting is staying in touch with people regardless of whether they post or not.. andrea – always feel free to email anyone.. i think a lot of us do.

    i remember, back on road trips, during the first week i was looking someone mentioned that they had no money for camera film.. and people sent them film.. made me think to start joining in.

  • Thanks for your response David (and others who welcome my questions). Sorry to have missed out on all your doings over recent years. Beg pardon.

    Where have I been? I turned my back on photography for more than 13 years. And on the web, finding the good stuff or what you are actually searching for, is often a matter of luck. I think i found your site from the Magnum site. It caught my attention because of the emerging photographers thingy but I wasn’t ready to submit anything in the end as I had only just bought my first version of photoshop and hadn’t even got my first DSLR then. I am now kicking myself for not even bothering to learn how to use my digital compact completely. Kicking myself for lots of things but anyway, what’s done is done.

    I will get around to ask my questions more openly now, as and when they come up. They are usually prompted by something I see in the photo essays and the ensuing discussion. Rather than go back and try to recapture my thoughts, I will wait until they come up again. Although I will reassure whoever it was mentioned it, my questions are not of a technical nature unless composition is considered a technical matter.

  • ..
    another good kickback from this place is inspiration..
    i’m hoping to see one of my ex students, ALEX, published up here – with work which was inspired by audreys essay in burns early days..


    i added a bit to my original comment to you..i deleted the “where have you been?” which was written with a smile and jokingly, but i realized could be mis-interpreted…one of the dangers of the fast paced writing medium of the net…..i stay away from tech talk generally….if you have a point and shoot camera, that is more than enough…


    yes, that is the ultimate spin off…now amigo, we have GOT to do your final edit…and do a preview of your upcoming book…are you ready??

    cheers, david

  • DAH – that second paragraph does it for me..

    it takes up the point with,
    “i am a struggling photographer myself..yes, perhaps with a bit more experience, but with all of the same things to overcome as everyone here…i know the difficulty of creating a style and then taking a magazine assignment and getting the work to speak from a personal level…”

    that being known makes this a good place – a leveler.. an indication to those who do not know that there are no ‘breaks’ big enough to make a career.. it’s always a struggle and always for the love of snapping..
    while for some it may only take a year or two to find a place, for others it takes 5 or more..

    it’s refreshing to be taken seriously, with a humble attitude, by the other photographers who frequent this place – and that is the vibe flowing due to your attitude.

    asking questions..
    i was asking anton last night.. i need a digital camera for a job at the end of the month.. limited funds.. choices, choices.. none of us are too proud to ask :)

  • i am ready david – yes thanks..

    the funny thing is that the work has been ready for a long while.. i think what i needed to work on was more philosophical.. more of the confidence game.. but a different confidence game than the one i have used to gain commissions.. a much more intimate confidence game and showing with the intention of doing a book is a helluva lot more nerve racking than serving magazine clients..
    so yeah – i’m now confident and ready to throw my work out there with the, (still feels loft), idea that it might actually warrant a book :)

    i have a feeling there are two or three more to come from my archive once this one is nailed and i cannot wait.

    and an effect of being here.. my attitude to shooting has changed somewhat.. it has always been with serious intention and a compulsion.. and now it’s with added enthusiasm.. for books.. which in tern has changed my perspective of working for magazines, which i have begun again after a year or so..
    i was in danger of becoming cynical them..
    going shopping .. grandparents visiting.. busy house full of cake, coffee and tor capa is leading the way with humor.


  • (still feels ‘lofty’ i mean to say)

  • Bavid bowen. I have a d2x thats just lying around gathering dust. If you want to borrow that, and can source some glass for it, its all yours and i will post it to you. John.
    btw it works perfectly and takes very clean pictures. Its my ‘corporate job’ camera, and seeing as how that seems to be dead in the water at the moment (9 days paid this year..ouch) it would appreciate the outing im sure.
    email if interested.

  • DAH,

    (too many Davids here)

    I sent you an e-mail regarding your suggestion. Have a look please and see what you think. I would be all aboard on this.


    I’d guess that most of us who post can relate to your feeling that everyone else seems to know one another and that there is some sort of “inner circle” here on Burn, ’cause we felt that way at the beginning too.

    As for me, I found Road Trips back in April 2008 and was intimidated as hell, not just by the level of the discussions about photography and the intimacy others seemed to share with one another, but by the quality of photographs being shared. Back in those pre-Burn days we only shared links to our work rather than seeing essays or photos posted here, but there was lots of sharing and asking for feedback from DAH and the community. And feedback, then as now, was very honest. I felt totally out of my depth and “left” Road Trips a good number of times in the first couple of months. Of course, no one here knew I’d left, but it took awhile before I started to feel comfortable enough to stick it out. And it was not because of anyone else’s comments or anything; it was all about my own lack of confidence.

    What I’ve learned about this community is that

    1) Many posters have never met DAH or the other posters and perhaps never will because of geographical constraints. But meeting in person is not the only way to build up feelings of comfort here; being a regular contributor to discussions is. Even those of us who have been lucky enough to meet in David’s Brooklyn loft, at the Look3 Festival of the Photograph in Charlottesville, Virginia, at VISA pour l’image in Perpignan, at Magnum parties in London or Paris, or at one of DAH’s workshops around the world, still have moments (days? weeks?) of feeling out of the loop, misunderstood, not appreciated and an “outsider.” But isn’t that true with ANY community, online or in person? AndreaC, you are already an important part of our community. I hope you know that.

    2) You don’t need to post your photographs — or even be a photographer — to be a valued member of the Burn community. Look at A Civilian Mass Audience. Where would we be without him/her (I don’t even know which!)? Civi adds SO MUCH to our community feeling. S/he is a voice of love and acceptance whatever is going on. Just be yourself and you’ll be fine. We have lots of different personalities and ways of communicating here. And, yes, some folks really get on each other’s nerves. But that’s true in any community. One thing about Burnians — and maybe this comes with the territory of being a photographer — is that we are each unique individuals, many with pretty strong opinions and no reluctance to express them. Respect is expected but not always in evidence. But we won’t give up trying.

    Andrea, I hope you’ll soon feel at home here. You are adding an important voice to the mix. And don’t rush, but when you’re ready we’d love to see your photos.


  • john
    or.. gohn :o)

    very kind sir..
    i could promise the very filthiest of hedonistic weeks in the balearic islands for that much neglected body of yours.
    i mean.. er..

    will be in transit through south london on wed 24th.. what you up to?
    perhaps squeeze in a jar or two as well, (if i can make it).

    lenses no prob.. .. okay ..
    very kind offer and i shall let you know soon as..

    i might invest the commission fee in sommit before i go ..

  • rafal..
    how very rude of you..
    we need MORE DAVIDS>>
    we have
    david ba
    david mc
    david ah
    david m.e.
    let us destroy borders and gather davids together..

  • cool. let me know. I may be persuaded to go south of the river if its for a good cause.
    regards glass: I do have a kit zoom, an old MF 24mm and a 100mm macro if you really need them, but you are better of using good Nikon glass if you have it(or can borrow/hire it).

  • [startgeek]
    funnily enough i have found myself with great nikon and canon lenses after the summer…
    pondering a change so during the summer shot both systems next to each other..
    was very interesting, for me..
    but not for everyone :o)

    okay – will be in touch by email closer the time.. would be good to grab beers..

    BTW – was not hinting above that i wanted to borrow a camera – was asking anton opinions on systems is all.


    I know we will meet one day. I see it…



    i have always worked with the so called “prosumer” cameras…the middle range…sold mostly to amateurs ,not the top of the line…except for the M6 which is the only really pro camera i have used…i prefer the mid range because they are smaller, lighter, more “people friendly” than the scarier big zoom lenses cameras which can do too many things that i just do not need done..i.e. i will take simple and inconspicuous over more megapixels any day…i shot Living Proof with the D70 for these reasons (love the pop up flash)…yes, the D2x would have been “better”, but it was way too much camera for the way i work..and judging from your work, i think you can and should work with the mid-range as well…plus, oh yes, another advantage…less expensive!!


    great comment…thanks….

  • ERICA…

    hmmmm, sounds like a modified, but equally exciting, Look3 to me….but, i do not know for sure…will find out…if it goes the way Andrew spoke to me about, the Burn crowd would be front and center..we will see…that is at this point a long way off…

  • I’m simply thrilled that it isn’t taking a year off, i’ll be happy for any form…

    Sitting delayed on a runway. Send thoughts of a peaceful and easy journey



    Just wanted to make sure you got the photoshelter invite to view the apple harvest images. As I said in the invite, there is no hurry. If you did not see it I will resend. Thanks!

  • Andrea, so far, I have only met David and Anton…. The extent of our relationship off line is being the guest of Anton the night I stayed in Paris, as the subways were closed, a generous gesture truly in the spirit of BURN, and impossible to forget: the hotel room walls were PINK, and the prostitutes down below on the street were speaking french, not….thai! :-))))

    And my one-on-one extent of conversation was David asking me how I got to pick up a camera (Or “how could you pick up….” I don’t quite remember) Everything else was just as on BURN. Too many people, too much noise, too late, but a lot of FUN! :-))))))

  • HERVE…

    my memory of our meeting is a bit different, but no matter….my memory is that i invited you to a Magnum gathering in Paris and i introduced you around…i did not know however that you and Anton stayed in a brothel…by the way, what was your answer to my question??

  • David, I am glad you mentioned you changed your post otherwise I would have missed the rest of what you wrote. I did understand that you were joking but anyway I chose to answer it straight. Probably because a humorous reply did not come to mind more quickly.

    Well I have a lovely 40D canon now and nice 17-55mm 2.8 lens to go with it. A great buy off ebay, so I am still spinning with joy over it. My compact was a canon and I loved it too, just never spent enough time with the manual so I never used all the technique I did know (dof etc) so most of my shots look like snapshots, even though I like them a lot – if I say so myself. They are probably only good anyway because Indians are such beautiful looking people and their culture is so visual and they are so interesting. I am so excited about going back soon with a more serious approach to photography in mind. I personally have no prejudice against cheap or crummy cameras. I have seen wonderful pictures taken with all sorts of things so I know what you are saying but even so I hadn’t expected it in this environment. I am not doing this merely for fun. I want to make my living from photography if I can.

    About comments. I hear you. But I am who I am I am afraid and I always stand out in a crowd because I am so opinionated. I can’t help it. I could not be a lurker if i tried. But i wish others would be louder too, so I can hear more of what they’ve got to say as well.

    I have not got any pictures I want to send through yet although I could send some portraits from my last trip to India if you were that keen to see something. Otherwise hopefully after India but I wonder where everyone puts theirs. I have some in various parts of the web. I don’t like flicker and pbase very much. Photoshelter looks good though but its not for me just yet. Maybe lightstalker will serve in the medium term. I did end up putting some links there under my name (thanks to Imants challenging me to do so) but I haven’t fixed the images with photoshop so they could be improved.

    Imants, bossy? D’ya think so? I hope your aunty was a nice woman also. Like me. I am direct and don’t pull my punches as much as I should I guess. I will probably do it more and more. But i like my criticism straight and not veiled in too much flattery. I think its more useful to have the truth of what people think than only praise or silence. Then you at least have the option to reject it if you think you know better.

    Oh here’s a question – for anyone. When I take pictures of strangers, I am more comfortable when it shows that they are engaged with me. I do not feel so comfortable about pointing a camera at someone who is busy doing something else, so many of my people shots end up as portraits or portraits in context. And I do not like to steal pictures, though I do that too occasionally. I guess for me its a challenge to get people to carry on doing what they were doing before I turn up and ask if its ok to photograph them. Sometimes it happens naturally. I am sure with photographers who are on a project where they know the subjects well and their presence is agreed and accepted, it’s much easier to get people to ignore you, to treat you like a fly on the wall. It’s especially hard to avoid representing this engagement when we don’t share a common language. You don’t want to start bossing your subject around when you’ve only just met them. But i get the impression that in photojournalism, it’s frowned on to have this engagement with the photographer visible in the shot, especially through the expression of the subject. As if there is something wrong with it. As if it made for a lesser shot. I personally do not think there is anything wrong with it or that its a lesser shot. But you do get a different picture of course.

    Now, I can almost hear you starting to object that you believe there is nothing with wrong with that and … but i think there would be qualifiers ie how such pictures are suitable for certain uses etc but are not really good photojournalism practice, so I might stop you there and just ask that you address only or mainly the point that my perception is that there is something not so accepted by the majority (rather than your own opinion) – if you were to agree with me -, about this awareness of the presence of the photographer in a photograph. I hope that’s not too hard to understand. I think i have not been very clear though. Unless of course you think i have got it all wrong but I don’t think so.

    I think i am getting at the question of objectivity and the perception of objectivity. Why do PJs try to avoid this engagement with the photographer so assiduously – as if to do so were a bad approach. What’s so wrong about being part of the picture if you are going to admit and accept that subjectivity can’t be helped anyway. I think consensus these days is that we can’t help but bring out subjectivity, our biases, our prejudices, our points of view and opinions, and our personality to making a picture, so I’m saying why is it less ok not to make it plain.

    You know I love those shots that show the background paraphernalia like lights and the edges of the screen in fashion shoots, or pictures of the crowds of other photographers in photojournalism. Pictures that address photography (in an overt way) and not just the subject at hand. Not saying it should be obvious all the time but i like it when it shows up. So for me being part of the picture insofar as the subject acknowledges your presence by gazing into the lens of the camera is to not to deny the presence of the camera and photographer and the point of view of the photographer. I am not against the fly on the wall approach but I think i also like photographs particularly when they are about photography and acknowledge or engage with that subject too. But in most photojournalism i’ve seen lately there lingers this traditional approach of denying the presence of the camera and I picked up somewhere that it is still considered…. struggling to find the right word… the most professional approach. (That’s not the word I wanted). Ok I think by now you must get what I am on about.

    I’ve just exhausted myself on the above. I was going to address your points but I think i’ve already taken up enough space so I will do it in more depth later. But thanks for your words.

  • a civilian-mass audience


    I am gonna say I LOVE you…and YES, we will meet …all BURNIANS in your Greek home.
    May I ask what is the name of your book???
    and YES, THANK YOU PATRICIA…it’s all about inner confidence !!!
    BURNIANS …you are the POWER, the inspiration,the motivation,the passion…
    KEEP IT UP and SHOOT !!!

    is BURN baby walking fast ??? Enjoy him and Don’t forget Lady B !!!
    I have a Sony Cybershot…nice pixels…hmmmm….
    and I might have a Lubitel 2…an old “flame” wants me to have it…hmmmm…
    Are you coming to Greece for work???Shall I e-mail you?
    … I haven’t started to give away your keys …not yet…cause
    I still help this “burned” family from Athens…:(((
    BUT,please let me know…there are always plenty of alternatives.
    The sky is the limit…LOVE

    HAIK ,
    is the best tech guy around…He responded ASAP regarding my crushed computer !!!LOVE

    I haven’t met anyone yet…:(((
    I am not a photographer.
    I like to drink, to eat and to LOVE YOU ALL.
    I live in western Greece and I have a house and you can have a key too…
    I got plenty of olive oil and ouzo !!!
    ENJOY us and we will enjoy YOU…

    P.S I miss many BURNIANS…Where Are you …I hope you are Shooting…HOPE
    Anton and Herve…may ask regarding the brothel in France…just curious …hmmmm

  • Andrea,

    Stealing photos is one way to put it. It all depends. Some folks like to know the person before photographing and it seems you are of that type. Some want to be part of it before photographing. And some just want to stay as far away “mentally” as possible.
    It is your personality and what you want your photograph to be.

    There are no rules.


    Ready to meet 3 more BURNians?

    See Andrea? We are real …


  • Andrea,

    I was going to say something almost exactly like what Haik just said. Essentially, you can shoot anyway you want. Up to you. Mix it up, have a blast.


    You, my dear friend, are the REAL DEAL! When I hear you say, “I still help this “burned” family from Athens…:(((“, my heart is moved by your generosity. Yes, we will meet. As with David B, I see it happening. And then I will know if you are a man or a woman! Until then, don’t tell. I love surprises…

    And my book is called “Falling Into Place” because I fall alot and this IS my place in life.


    You are now using my camera and (almost) my lens! Sounds like maybe you have the Canon lens while I have the Tamron, but I’m sure they operate pretty much the same. I adore my 40D and my 17-50 mm f/2.8 lens!! This is all I’ve used for the past two years even though I have other lenses. And I used it exclusively on all the photos for my Falling Into Place self portrait project.

    It’s a good choice for a “people person” like you (and me) because you can get right up close to your subject and go to town. I also like to engage with folks so I’m not much of a traditional street shooter. If you look at one of the portfolios on my website — The Blue Mirror Project — you’ll see what I mean. Every one of those folks agreed to pose for me even though, in most cases, we were “strangers.” Is ANYONE a stranger, though? To my way of thinking, they’re just friends I’ve yet to meet. Sounds like you would probably agree.

    Have fun with your new camera/lens and feel free to email me with any questions. I’m on a need-to-know basis with my equipment, but would be happy to help if I can. My email is playdorsey@comcast.net


  • David! :-))))

    Just teasing, I hope you knew (not sure, aie!)

    The hotel was great, not a brothel at all, but close enough to that most famous red light district, Pigalle, sung by Piaf and painted by so many like Toulouse-Lautrec. Absinthe is in absentia but the place is still picturesque and noisy.

    I never stepped one foot in a thai brothel either, or any for that matter, btw.

  • hmm..
    my history of cameras (on a shoe string) goes like this..

    8 to 12 yrs old the kodak ektra 110..
    12 to 19 the zenith em
    18 to 24 a nikon 301
    24 to 27 a nikon f3 n hassleblad
    and then.. my editor at a magazine told me i had to upgrade since they ‘could not use’ someone who shot with the ‘best of the last decade’.. so i got an f5.. switched OFF the autofocus.. only ever used it on manual, pre-focused… set it up just as my f3hp..

    the f5 is knackered now, so i got a knackered eos 1n to see if i could get around a canon.. it’s okay.. like it.. easy to clean :)

    now i need to shoot digital for ‘them’..
    well.. okay.. i can do that.. i can put my right leg behind my head as well.. but i don’t like it.

    DAH – the d70.. d70s is a good lump.. used it once before on loan..
    i need to buy really and am no snob.. just want the best possible files for meager budget..

    d2x on loan would be great fun..
    fact is, i just don’t want to give up what i love.. so have been looking at bulk film loaders on ebay :o)

    okay – bored myself now..

    they saw fit to send me to ibiza for a week instead..
    memories memories..
    email me in any case – of course.. david@bophoto.co.uk


  • David A, David B

    I use Canon 5d and 1ds cameras for work, but my camera of choice for personal work is a Canon Rebel XS, their “entry” dslr. Under $500 with the very sharp, image stabilized (but slow) kit lens. I can carry it around all day without getting a groove in my shoulder. And yes David, love that pop-up flash. Sometimes I use the kit lens, more often I just take the little 28mm 2.8.


    OK, OK, no more gear talk.

  • andrea..
    i really want to reply.. i need some time right now.. cigs n wine now.. after beer.. after whiskey..

    my website is screwed today.. will rely..

  • Andrea;

    Interacting with the people you photograph is one of the prime benefits of photography….


  • I still have a D1x that I use to shoot with manual focus Nikon lenses. Best 5.7MP ever made :)

  • patricia – DEM festival one year..
    when i have a bank account..

    jim.. :o) no doubt..

    andrea C

    i think there are different streams of photography which you are aware of..
    traditional photojournalism has unwritten rules.. it is reporting and recording of an event or happening in which even a ‘set up’ portrait might be considered as crossing a line of ethics..
    even in this stream there is no denying that the photographer effects the photo.. that the subjects of a photo act in accordance, on occasion, with what the perceive the photographer as wanting to see..
    this can result in tragic situations.. ( the pj committing suicide because he realized the south african police being murdered were a form of ‘theater’ for the media)..
    there is no denying that photographers effect the scene before them even in the largest movement or happening.. because a small action in a large movement, surrounded by snappers, will take on a new form.. yet this is not the point which i think needs consideration..

    there is another kind of photography .. photographers who are not pj’s, yet who produce work of the same ilk.. more like subjective reporters of their own existence than recorders of events, and i think the majority of snappers following this blog are from that school.. i may be wrong of course.

    in this later instance what happens is that a passion for photography is the initiating factor and then an evolutionary trend builds.. the following of interests and passion.. which at it’s best can leave something behind which speaks of a life all-to-quiet in other ways.

    i find it endlessly fascinating as to why people photograph.. for the macho hoo-haa, the travel.. the romantic associations build up over a century through the ‘exotic other’ and ethnographic pursuits..

    my favorites are people who really have little inkling of why they do it, why people pay them to do it.. or where it is going to take them.
    anyone entering a life in photography will soon understand that NOTHING FEELS THE WAY YOU THOUGHT IT WOULD.. even the ‘best’ commissions.
    and.. that is important.. because over time there is only photography for photographys sake.. for the love .. everything else is just walnuts..
    those who have a love for the ‘trappings’ will always fall short of their dream, while those who have a love of the craft will find nothing but satisfaction.
    anyway.. i’m rambling, drunk, so i will continue with less digression if no one objects :o)

    stealing photos.. i guess there are a number of ways of looking at this.. and over simplification is hardly sufficient, yet i’m simple. :)
    there is the insecure snapper.. skirting the outsides of an event.. happening.. looking in.. wanting to participate, yet unable to fully without the comfortable excuse and shield in front of them.. not quite stealing.. more paying respect to what is in front of them
    there is the extroverted snapper.. thriving on the huge number of new people and experiences which a life behind the camera can yield.. high on the ride and high on the characters.. wanting to record them all.. see everything.. experience what they experience.. perhaps this is a homage to a lifestyle.. a tribute to the subject..
    there is the compassionate snapper.. compelled to change.. dedicated to effect change.. learning the craft in order to access areas of life which need to be seen and need to acted upon.. an empathetic soul with a lightbox.
    there is the papp.. yes.. there is.. hmm.. and the news snapper.. the plumber of the photo world waiting at doorways and along side football pitches..

    i’m not certain any of us are stealing photos..
    i am hopeful that most of the people who photograph outwardly have a respect and an understanding of their subject which relegates them above ‘tourist’.. because tourists are welcome neither in war zones nor backstage at a gig.
    i would hope that the very best photographers working this genre are all-of-the-above… all of them.. slices of charecter which provide motivation for different work and inspiration to do it over and over despite the sometimes extreme hardships.
    i think the best photographers of tomorrow will not look at it as an income.. more as a compulsion.. perhaps there has always been a school of thought, conscious or not, along these lines..

    i have never thought i am stealing photos of others – while i have always struggled with giving away my SELF with every shot.
    the ‘others’ i catch in circumstances they sometimes find amusing, and sometimes feel provoked to violence by, are nothing more than reflections of myself. i see things because i am who i am.. that sounds pretentious.. hmm.. okay – i see a small section.. 1/30th sec.. of the millions of moments happening around me at any one time.
    of those moments i have a small fraction i will show to people.. and those moments happen in a world where an infinite selection of any type of moment is happening all around.. i cannot photograph anything but what i see and what i choose, knowingly or not, to see… even of what i choose to see a very small ‘edit’ is recorded and passed on.

    in this context i cannot see that i am stealing photos.. all i can see is that i am exposing myself.. the people within the photograph i have nothing but respect for.. i envy them sometimes.. i admire them.. feel sorry for them.. each in tern with my own self pity, joy and varying sense of self..
    i’ve cried looking back at my archive – feeling sorry for the subjects on occasion, but more often feeling sorry for the young man who chose that photo to take.. some will stay in dusty files..

    that’s life. perhaps i chose photography over music as a teen because it would be easier to conceal myself :o) go figure.
    the more i photograph other people the more naked i feel.. the more i edit my surroundings into a palatable whole the more acutely aware i become that it is only me i am showing..
    this is quite real.. i cannot feel nervous pointing a camera at someone.. i can only feel nervous when i come to edit what i have shot.. if i can see so much in others, and see it with such clarity.. then surely they can see it in me..?!>>>> no.. no.. surely not :o)
    maybe it is enough to know that if i can see even that small fraction of life in others, then someone can see so much more than me.;. there is always the bigger dad.. always the sharper knife in the draw.. ho hum.. snap snap.

    i guess my longwinded conclusion is just to take pictures.. if the passion is real and the motivation pure joy of receiving the images then the rest will work itself out.
    start at home.. avoid the india thing.. avoid hiding behind photography which numbs or dilutes your self.. blow the doors open.. use what means you may.. photographic chemicals or other, and see what you see.. it’s an endlessly rewarding pursuit and the more you do it the more you learn about yourself.. your motives.. and who you are.
    i think that is why this simple craft is given the lofty title of proffession.. because with every shoot undertaken knowingly there is a learning and development of the self.. photography must be one of, if not the, most rewarding proffession in terms of revealing one’s self.
    being a fan of photographers is great.. loving the technical prowess of snappers is great.. digging the equipment will get you a job in calumet – – – – seeing yourself in what you create in sublime…..

    the more unique your experience, the more unique your vision will be.. and the more idiosyncratic your work will be.. and that does not depend upon a hard life, a privileged life, a wild life or a quiet life.. all have the greatest potential..
    someone will relate.. you will gain satisfaction and there is always the hope that some form of contribution will be left behind which shifts the balance for others, in whatever way it needs to be shifted.

    you know what – i have no idea if the majority of that was even relevant to your post.

    gone for now :o) wondering if bobus will charge me with mad proustien pros :)

  • /\ bear in mind i am quite poorly read and very, very drunk..
    thank you.
    night all.

  • andrea..

    in your Q you ask why the frown on involvement between the photog and the subject in photojournalism…broadly, photojournalism’s “primary role is to report visually on the significant events and on the varied viewpoints in our common world. Our primary goal is the faithful and comprehensive depiction of the subject at hand. As photojournalists, we have the responsibility to document society and to preserve its history through images.” (NPPA) and to that end pjs follow a code, below.

    When you involve the subject or collaborate etc. the work is perceived to slip into a different zone, possible fine art or a form of documentary work or portraiture..I am not a term stickler, just trying to answer in “real world” meaning..though of course, your news story could be about what happens when a person/culture etc. interact with the photographer, and that could be photojournalism :)

    Code of Ethics from NPPA

    Photojournalists and those who manage visual news productions are accountable for upholding the following standards in their daily work:

    1. Be accurate and comprehensive in the representation of subjects.
    2. Resist being manipulated by staged photo opportunities.
    3. Be complete and provide context when photographing or recording subjects. Avoid stereotyping individuals and groups. Recognize and work to avoid presenting one’s own biases in the work.
    4. Treat all subjects with respect and dignity. Give special consideration to vulnerable subjects and compassion to victims of crime or tragedy. Intrude on private moments of grief only when the public has an overriding and justifiable need to see.
    5. While photographing subjects do not intentionally contribute to, alter, or seek to alter or influence events.
    6. Editing should maintain the integrity of the photographic images’ content and context. Do not manipulate images or add or alter sound in any way that can mislead viewers or misrepresent subjects.
    7. Do not pay sources or subjects or reward them materially for information or participation.
    8. Do not accept gifts, favors, or compensation from those who might seek to influence coverage.
    9. Do not intentionally sabotage the efforts of other journalists.

    Ideally, photojournalists should:

    1. Strive to ensure that the public’s business is conducted in public. Defend the rights of access for all journalists.
    2. Think proactively, as a student of psychology, sociology, politics and art to develop a unique vision and presentation. Work with a voracious appetite for current events and contemporary visual media.
    3. Strive for total and unrestricted access to subjects, recommend alternatives to shallow or rushed opportunities, seek a diversity of viewpoints, and work to show unpopular or unnoticed points of view.
    4. Avoid political, civic and business involvements or other employment that compromise or give the appearance of compromising one’s own journalistic independence.
    5. Strive to be unobtrusive and humble in dealing with subjects.
    6. Respect the integrity of the photographic moment.
    7. Strive by example and influence to maintain the spirit and high standards expressed in this code. When confronted with situations in which the proper action is not clear, seek the counsel of those who exhibit the highest standards of the profession. Photojournalists should continuously study their craft and the ethics that guide it.

  • “Battalion 1 to Manhattan, we have a number of floors on fire”. . . first official FDNY report of 9/11 attacks. Watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIpLLYadyeo



    I think your question about photojournalists either being a “fly on the wall” or interacting more with the subject of course depends on the situation you are photographing. Obviously if you are covering a spot news event such as a fire, car accident, protest, war etc, you do not want to “interact.” This is when being the fly on the wall is required.

    Now a photo story on a family for instance. I know there is a school of thought that says to observe and not interact. I was once a subscriber to this method. I now think that it is a myth.

    There is no way a photographer can spend hours and days with a subject and not influence to some degree what is going on. I don’t mean in a directorial aspect, but just in the fact that your presence is altering the situation no matter how slight.

    I think you need to interact. You need to talk to them. Two things happen when you do. One, you learn more about the person or people you are working with and two, they learn about you and become more comfortable.
    They will relax.

    David has spoke to this before and there is a video that shows him in action. This one on Utube:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aES5WD22FBA and there is also one on David’s site under movies/national geographic.

    In both cases you can see how his interaction works and works well. It puts the subjects at ease and builds trust. In the one on David’s site you see him dancing in the street with others as he photographs Carnival. These people forget he has a camera. He is just another person celebrating in the street.

    I can offer more but I need to get back to visiting my sister and her family.

    Feel free to email me if you have any questions.

  • my favorite of all digi times…
    D50…( i swear ) with 16mm..
    try it

  • black tape on the letters…and decalls..
    worn out stripe… couple scratches…
    and NOT just wont steal it…they wont even touch it..

  • for work…?..d200 or d300 is more than “they” can ask or need…
    now the M8 is reserved only for “BURN”… participation and enjoyment..

    did anyone tried the M9 yet??????
    have u seen the brochure???
    photos from Cuba…
    hmmm … cool photos but,
    i wish they had paid DAH for a job like thie Leica M9 brochure…
    then again.. what do i know!

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-5-Qh7HFGg&feature=related

    Ufo in Belgium chased by air force F16’s

    was DAH there..? incognito?

  • I think they should have given DAH an M9, if only on the basis of his reputation as the one Leica, one lens guy. :)

    Better PR for them than the Leica guy giving a washed up singer an S2 on the intro video. I mean, he is very interested in photography, but he’s no David Allen Harvey!

  • Evidence that George W. Bush had advanced knowledge of 9-11



    i know y’all already watch it but SCARED to post it…
    oh whatever … thats old news…
    big hug
    peace out

  • tomorrow i shoot a wedding but i don’t shoot weddings, which is why they wanted me to do the wedding. my life is full of contradictions. if it was a traditional church wedding i would never have said yes because
    i couldn’t love it. but a french and american wedding in rural northwest america. classic. tonight they made the most amazing bouillabaisse. tents and campfires and chickens and a great pyrrenese named Earl. i was nervous but now i am at home. this i can do.

  • Congratulations on the rare opportunity, Tom. not a common thing to come across. good luck and good light.

  • Thank you all for responding to my question to such length. Its going to take me a little while to process all that. David I enjoyed your drunken ramblings.

    Thank you to Patricia and Pete for your email invitations. And I will follow the links Pete.
    Thanks Erica for that code. I think i read it recently or something similar but I need to read it again anyway and think about it a bit more. So really, i do mean thanks.
    Haik and Michael thanks too.

    I wish I had thought of this earlier but a classic example of the sort of photography I mean is shown in the essay of Palestinians in East Jerusalem (I think) by the Jewish woman photographer. She is so terribly close to her subjects sometimes that you can’t be in any doubt that she had the cooperation or awareness of her subjects.

    I suppose most of my shots of people end up being portraits. Perhaps i should not try to force a change of approach. Maybe it’s a strength. I’ll see. Yeah maybe I will stay “stuff convention” and just do my own thing and not worry about it. Of course I wouldn’t set up or manipulate a shot to create a false impression of something that is supposed to be truthful.

    Now I am feeling much less of an intruder.

    Patricia, to get back to your earlier post. Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts. Yes its a canon lens. And I like to use only one lens because whenever I’ve had two, there is one I almost never use. I just don’t like to change the lens. Its easier to adapt your style to your favourite lens than all that mucking about. Of course this means that I am unlikely to bring back a picture of the tiger I spot at 300m or so on my Indian visit. But some things I prefer to simply observe and capture for my memory.

  • Jim

    I agree, David should takes pictures for the brochure of M9. Especially from cuba.

    hmmmm…. I would not be offended if they give me one m9 and send me to cuba :)… but only because I wish have one… and revisit cuba. I’ve seen many photos from cuba and we all will agree for sure, David’s are the best.

    Btw, apart of price of the M9 I have to say, finally I have found “my” digital camera. I’m wondering what what I get for Christmas. probably socks. :)

    peace for dreamers

  • Ready to meet 3 more BURNians?

    Sure, Haik. I must say I thought long to make sure David and Anton were the only ones I met from BURN (just now, oops!, I realize I met John Vink in Phnom Penh. Sorry, John!), because truly Andrea is right, it seems like we know a lot of each other after all.

    Thai brothels….. Pour the beer, Haik, my memory is pretty good (my self-esteem too)! ;-)

  • Marcin, you asked a couple days ago. Definitely going this winter to Asia, maybe as early as December or just past New year’s. I am sorry we won’t meet this time, and now hearing you will not make it to Sri Lanka either.

    I remember the fun rides going to the fishing and boxing villages, Let’s see, i should have a pix of that worth posting…..

    Yep! Here is Marcin at the thai boxing camp:


  • :))))

    I didn’t know this image :)
    I’m just going to sell my sculpture… 30% chance but if I will have a luck I will take my wife to sri lanka at the end of the year.

  • I forgot to say to Civilian Mass, Greece, now I would definitely drop in on you if i find myself in that part of the world again. I hope it will happen. I have strong memories of Greece. Thank you for the invitation. I wonder what keeps a non-photographer hanging around here? But I suppose that’s been discussed to death already.

  • Marc’s piece makes me wonder who identifies with the dead father and who with the son who loses him when going through it. It should make quite a difference. I tend to identify with the father, thinking that when I die, friends and family will go through my belongings and thoughts discovering a person different to what they were used to.


    Also, get a copy of War Photographer and watch it.

    Of to D.C. to photograph the Health Care protesters.

  • all,

    I am so sad to announce the death of the french photographer Willy Ronis, he died at the age of 99….

  • Ronis was a sweet man. From a time before photography was made less complicated by photographers… ;-)

  • Sorry meant to write “before photography was made complicated by photographers”…

  • Pete…

    How long you going to be up here?

  • Audrey

    I’m happy to hear that Willy Ronis enjoyed such a long life. I remmember reading an interview with him years ago, and he was elderly then. If I remmember right, there was a photograph of him proudly showing off his new favourite camera, a Pentax ME super with a 28-50 zoom lens.

    His photos always struck me as very quiet and gentle, celebrating life.

    Was he active in the French photo community in his latter years Audrey?

  • David Bowen,,,tsk tsk

    Although I have to tell you David that you write pretty well when drunk. I actually enjoyed your ramble.

  • Gordon, And he didn’t make many typos either! (David of course)

    JKaranka. I often think about what people would find in my gear if i were to make a sudden departure. I am not bothered by any of it so this does not trouble me. Is that what you mean? I don’t think too much about Marc’s grief. I haven’t had a major similar loss so I’ve no experience of my own like it and his essay did not draw much attention to himself but kept it on the father so I do not identify with him. Although I did think that letter from one of the kids utterly gorgeous and it’s charming that Daddy kept it for so many years; which makes me question what i said about not learning much about the inner world of the father. I guess its the same with the book. What sort of man would read a book like that daily. Certainly not someone like my father. So definitely I am thinking about the father, not the son.

  • Gordon,
    Willy Ronis with Doisneau and Cartier-Bresson “have create” the humanist photograph in France… he is the photographer of Paris… he offered us his look on France (he gave his work in the state)… he loved people, he respected them, he photographed them without betraying them… I listened him in Arles this year, he spoke about the ethics of photographer and about his refusal of use of his photos to purposes which could not be convenient hi political ideas and of citizen… if I don’t make a mistake, he stopped to work for Life magazine, because he couldn’t check the legends…

  • David,

    I’ve sent e-mail again.
    If you don’t have this mail again…Please let me know….I will send the copy of my mail to Ms. Michelle Smith.

    Thank you.


    Leaving Monday Morning sometime.

  • “before photography was made complicated by photographers”…

    There are always irreductibles somewhere, John, like Asterix and Obelix! :-)))

    Wow, Audrey, I was thinking of you having met Willy, just last night, and of him being the last of his generation, not for long. No sadness really, just wonderful, this life!

    Talking about old age, sure had my senior moments yesterday, forgetting to recall I met Marcin, while at the same time posting a pix of him…. Willy, take me with you, I shoot kids on Earth, angels should not be much harder!

  • Pete…

    If you have any spare time Sunday afternoon I’d be happy to meet up and buy you that beer. If other things are on your agenda, no sweat.

  • MIKE

    Sounds good, sent you an email.


    As soon as you posted the news of Willy Ronis’ death, I went online and bought a used copy of “Willy Ronis: Photographs 1926-1995.” I’m glad he lived a long life but there will still be an empty hole where he used to be. Such an important part of our past and present. How wonderful that you were able to see and hear him speak this year at Arles.


  • ALL

    If you haven’t gone “skyping” yet, I encourage you to do so! I just had the most amazing Skype visit with Reimar Ott in Germany and am smiling from ear-to-ear. We talked for an hour and a half and the time flew by. What an incredible invention. And it’s FREE!!! Now I want to visit with Burnians EVERYWHERE…



    Not sure if you may be interested, but I sent you a photoshelter invite to the Tea Party protest march in D.C. today. I know BURN is not a ‘news” site but let me know if you are interested.


    Leica has been very generous with me…they gave me two M8’s to test for the last three years and provided M8’s for my whole workshop class to use in New York as well as their super digital projector…i think if i turn in the M8’s they will most likely allow me to test an M9 for my upcoming assignments…if anyone from Leica is reading this, please please!! Nikon has also been generous and allowed me to test all of their digital models and i have shot two of their coolest ad campaigns where they allowed me freedom to shoot my way….so, i cannot complain about support from either of these companies…and it is pretty easy for me to say nice things about both products…..Divided Soul was shot with Leica, Living Proof with Nikon…but, not because of any brand loyalty per se on my part as per the companies sponsorship…i used both cameras anyway…..Div Soul just had to be done with Leica..and only the Nikon could have been used for Living Proof because of the way i used the flash system…


    i just cannot figure out why your emails do not reach me…i cleaned out my boxes…i checked spam…i do not know what else to do…your portfolios on Photoshelter did come through a couple of weeks ago as you know…yes, if you are trying to reach me send an email to michelle smith….did you try davd@burnmagazine.org?? that box cannot get clogged…anyway, sorry about this frustration for you…


    if there are good news pictures to publish, i will publish them….


    many of us having been skyping here for awhile..why in the world you and i did not use it for at least some editing escapes me…anyway, call me sometime: davidalanharvey …. i want to show you your guest bedroom when you come to visit….

    cheers, david

  • David;

    At the risk of talking camera stuff again… The new little Leica X-1 looks pretty sweet too. Fixed Elmarit 24 mm f/2.8 ASPH lens, DSLR (1.5x)sensor, a good little take anywhere “people” camera.

  • Skype is NOT free, it just looks that way: you still have to pay for the consumption of bandwith when you’re using it. In the countries on one side of Digital Divide it’s not an issue. But remember: if you’re on the side where you have say 2.5Mb speeds and unlimited access, you are SPOILED.

  • Ross..
    X-1…( made in Germany )..
    doesn’t hurt..at all..:)

  • Panos; “doesn’t hurt..at all..:)

    Well the price does, but having a firm grip on reality has never been one of my fortes :-)

  • David,

    I’ve just sent e-mail to you again and to michelle smith(copy)too.
    Yes, I’ve sent by davd@burnmagazine.org (reply to your mail).

    I’ll try to change my server(Korea)to gloval server(hotmail…g-mail…).
    Any way…I really hope my mail finds you well.

    Thank you.

  • AUDREY….

    thank you for the news about Willy Ronis..so many great photographers seem to grow to be very old…

    i will try to look at your new work this week….sorry i missed you in France…..

    cheers, david

  • Ross :)..
    “firm grip in reality”..!!?
    ..tell me about it..brother…
    ( there’s no such thing as “reality” in my fuzzy world..)

  • a civilian-mass audience

    You might be the first to visit your home in Greece… !!!
    You sound like a “serious” traveler…

    I will try to send the photos from your rooms…or put a link or something…:)))
    You are so right…”I wonder what keeps a non-photographer hanging around here?
    Maybe, MR.MAROVITCH was right…afterall

    thanks for the Skype thing…
    I can’t wait to skype the 1.000.000 BURNIANS !!!

    how is your liver???
    Oime, you are good with the drinking and writing…
    ***Please,don’t try this at home !!!

    My GRACIE,
    BURN muse, we need you here !!!

    well done again…u know…
    KATIE, Street fighter…miss you already.


  • a civilian-mass audience

    Yes, ROSSY,

    as PANOS writes:


    LOVE YOU ALL…and please don’t worry …smile …life is beautiful…

  • my liver is drowning again civi..

    happy grandparents need to carry a government health warning..
    ‘injurious to health’.. ‘grandparents are addicvtive’ .. ‘drinking with grandparents can harm your health’..
    IF NOT FOR FIREFOX SPELL CHECK I’D BE A RUINED MAN>>> grasping at consciousness…

    how is the family?

  • Skype: since my friends complain about the echo, I don’t use it so much. But I agree it’s great for the phone bill. I would be too shy to call up people I don’t know without prior arrangement. Do people really just see a name they know and start dialling?

    Patricia, i look at your piccies. I’m impressed. And I twigged to something about my own way of taking pictures as a result of seeing yours. And there’s something about the colour I don’t understand. One day I will have another look and email you about it (or even skype you). It’s, ugh, technical so there’s no hurry.

    I looked at Audreys last night too. Those animal pictures tweaked my heart. You have a nice style. And I even wondered if i detected an accent. Is there any such thing as an American style, French style etc? Very unlikely i guess but I’m gonna think about it some more.

    I am starting to get pictausted though.


    actually, i think there are many non-photographers hanging out here….photographs are not intended just for photographers after all…quite the contrary…remember that civilian mass audience that just craves pictures??

  • Bucharest update: My second childhood and detained by Romanian police.

    In the past day pretty much every time I have gone to raise my camera here in central Bucharest on the street, I have been immediately reprimanded by men. I feel as if I am 12, like a kid, constantly being told what I can and cannot do. Living here is beginning to affect my public behavior and I find myself avoiding eye contact with people in order to try to lower my profile. I don’t know if I’m ugly or what, but I stick out like a sore thumb. Romanians are professional starers. Men and women alike stare me down like I have never experienced before. I often wonder, ‘wait is my zipper down or something?!’ But it isn’t, people just stare at me with eyes like a death ray. Tonight I guy jumped from his Rolls Royce and chased me asking to see my pictures. Then, as I approached my apartment I took a few frames from the sidewalk of the entrance to a bar, there were just stairs and no one around. Suddenly I was approached by a guy from the place telling me that we must go to the police and I must delete my pictures. Was at the police station for 1 hour. I ended up keeping my files but the guy had such a diabolical look on his face the whole time. The police said that since I never entered the place I had a right to take pictures. The guy wasn’t buying it. Anyways, I really wonder how the big guys like DAH, Nachtwey, Pellegrin, Vink etc. etc. etc. navigate the world? The experience tonight was pretty scary actually for me having all the corrupt Romanian police around. I just feel I have no clout here in Bucharest. I can say I am a tourist just taking photos and it means nothing to people. Maybe I am under a bad sign, but it’s like I can hardly move without being noticed. Bucharest is softcore Pyongyang. Again, Bucharest is the most bizarre place I have ever been. Romania is in the EU yet people act as if Ceausescu still reigns.

  • “happy grandparents need to carry a government health warning..
    ‘injurious to health’.. ‘grandparents are addicvtive’ .. ‘drinking with grandparents can harm your health’..”- david bowen

    Indeed :-) My father-in-law is my beer-drinking buddy!


    I appreciate your waking me up to the realities of life in places other than where I live. It is all too easy to be provincial in my outlook and that is NOT how I want to view the world. I’d wondered how Skype could offer such a service for free. Now I know they don’t.


    Yes, I’ll call. Or you can call me at patricialaydorsey. I’d love to see my guest bedroom in the beautiful Outer Banks ;=)

    We didn’t Skype when doing our edits because I didn’t have it and actually I don’t think you did either, not at that time anyway. But from now on I’m going to be a BIG TIME Skyper!!!



    Ask away about color or anything else. And feel free to either Skype or email me…


  • And now I’ve just had a lovely Skype visit with Ross Nolly in New Zealand!!! My husband Ed met and talked to him too, and I met Ross’s mum as well. My god, this is unbelievable…


  • Patricia; It was a pleasure to finally meet “face to face” :-)

  • dellicson

    ohboy, did your post from Bucharest make me smile! hahahaha, i know EXACTLY what you mean! In Spanish, there is an expression, “La mirada es todo” (the look is everything) and people here really know how to wield a pair of eyeballs. Add to that their ultra-sensitive urban radar and shooting discreetly is utterly and completely impossible. I have three words for you..”from the hip”. It’s the only way in a deeply paranoid, er, curious culture of starers. I did see advice from a photographer i respect a lot when asked how he shot strangers on the street. He said, make friends, talk, wait, talk some more. If you’ve got the time and the energy and aren’t too shy, that’s also a good way. But….if time’s an issue or your style is discretion, then take your eye away from the viewfinder, hopefully have a quiet shutter and cultivate a totally indifferent air as you stride purposefully down the street clicking away without raising an eyebrow. Ouch, i sympathize with the police bit..been there myself. Good luck!


  • Civilian,
    my mass audience

    i’m here, doncha go away, i’m hanging over your shoulder all the time..you’re MY Burn muse!


  • DAH

    Avalon for me is wherever i can drink a cappuccino..

    Are you in NYC for Christmas? I am visiting NJ then and would love to see the loft and meet you..if not..maybe i could see the (in)famous loft (?)…it would be great if you were in it of course..

    don’t worry if you don’t answer this post, i plan on nagging you a bit till i get a yea or nay..

    best of all avalons to you


  • photographs are not intended just for photographers after all…quite the contrary

    I even think that to ever renew the magic that are photographs, even photographers should/do not deny themselves the gift of sometimes looking at pictures as if they had never touched a camera, and knew nothing about Photography.

  • Herve

    good advice!


  • David, thank you very much!

    Andrea, thank you, yes, I must continue this essay, and to contact farms, zoo…

    all the best, audrey

  • Davin, I wonder if it would help you to try talking more to people about the pervasive suspicion of photographers. I know you think its because of a hangover from the past but can you elaborate on that. And I mean can you report on what the locals actually say about it. What do they think you are doing when you take a picture? What are they afraid of? And apart from that, which is for my own interest, there could be a chance that a solution is found in it. But Kathleen’s advice sure sounds good anyway.

    About staring. I don’t think there’s anywhere that staring is as much a part of the experience of being a tourist than in India. It unnerves most people. It’s strange but it is primarily blatant curiosity. And i don’t think one should be too misled by the expression one sees on their faces. It may not be hostility. But it might. Once in Ladakh, a friend and i were in the back of a truck just returning from a trek. We were on road that was undergoing major construction work. We had to stop at one point and wait. Some of the road workers came over to check us out. I think they are typically from Bihar. Two of the guys (and they are not all guys) climbed onto the tailgate of the truck and just hung there staring stupidly at us for several minutes. I snapped a couple of pictures and they didn’t bat an eyelid. When many indians stare, they look almost bestial. It’s rather odd.

    But once I got caught staring at Earnie Dingo who a famous Australian actor who is particularly good looking. He strolled past me when one day as I was sitting on a fence at a famous market in Sydney. Earnie was my heartthrob at the time. I know my gaze totally unnerved him because he reacted. He is an aboriginal and i have heard him talk about his experience of racism so I know that for all his fame, he is still sensitive to being black. Now my gaze was completely the opposite of what he perceived. I guess it was too intense. :D

    The experience of travelling and particularly with a camera makes me realise that staring is a reciprocal activity. So how to stare (and take pictures) at people without looking stupid or being rude is a tricky thing to work out. Though I often get the impression that most travellers are completely unaware of their own tendency to stare.

  • skype echo only happens when someone uses it without headphones i think.. the mic picks up the sound of the person talking and bounces it back through the mic to them..
    ’tis very weird to hear your own voice..
    not great

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Where are my Greek people,PANOS,THODORIS,STELIOS,ANDREWB… ???

    We all know about a good intense STARING :)))
    I “LOVE staring :[[[
    Staring the stars!!!
    Staring = kissing and telling
    staring = what’s up
    maybe that’s why I left Greece for almost 20 years…hmmmm…
    and now I came back for the staring…hmmmm…

    Do you might if I stare your photos, BURNIANS…???


    NYC for Christmas !!! Lucky …you deserve some “high end” staring…LOVE…hihihi

    the “burning” family is doing…hmmm…it’s not easy.
    The kids started school. The parents are freaking out. They have their moments.
    I have my moments too. I feel guilty because my family needs me too …and I need to be there for them.
    I don’t know,I feel Like a roll of film just before to put me in the darkroom…

    I love you…cause I crave photos and I crave kalamari, souvlaki and tzatziki
    that’s why I am here.

    P.S I will be back with some mousaka

  • John Vink-
    What do you mean by this..??

    Sorry meant to write “before photography was made complicated by photographers”…

  • Mr. Harvey shoots Nikon! See, I’ve seen older ads for Nikon with you in them… Dancers wearing makeup and red is all that comes mind right now from the ad I remember… But here I’ve heard you only shoot Leica with film. Few lenses and almost no flash. And you didn’t like the M8 completely…
    Recently I found an older National Geographic magazine all about Africa. You did an article on Nairobi and there was flash everywhere!
    I was going to ask you about this in New York… Now I understand! I shoot Nikon solely currently because Leica is $$$$… Maybe I can find a nice used one someday to play with.
    Until then I will have to suffer with the horribly loud Clack clack it makes hahaha.

    Everyone – did a new blog of some kids playing on a lighthouse and hippie drummers at a beach… Not Quite Avalon… But for these kids perhaps it is…

  • HERVE…

    i think you are absolutely right…once you are really “educated” in the history of photography etc etc and theoretically “know” all about everything, then it is really refreshing just to look at pictures as if you knew nothing….that is when you really start to learn…..


    i had to laugh a bit…the “older” copy of NG about Nairobi is i think about three years old and the Nikon ad was last year…since it usually takes well over a year to research, plan, shoot, edit and layout an NG story, a three yr. old story seems recent to most of us…from the time of an idea until it is in print is usually a solid two years or more..not always, but usually….

    anyway, i used one 1200 watt second light for the Africa portraits with a 4foot by 4 foot softbox…first time and last time i will try this…D70 was perfect for this because it synchs at a 500th of a sec(the only model that does) allowing me to shoot in the bright mid-day Africa sun as long as i had this power light…i wanted the moody look i almost always try to have, but shot at 12 o’clock noon…still the portraits were pretty spontaneous because in Nairobi even if you have an assistant lugging a big light, hardly anyone notices in the chaos of daily life…

    i have always used just a bit of flash with color including with the M6 and transparency film…just a tiny tweak..so you would never notice…see if you can identify the flash pictures in Div Soul…before the M6 i always used Nikons for magazine work……now, i shoot film with the Mamiya VII and digi with the D700 and the M8 depending on what i am doing…still shooting 95% with only a 35mm lens (or 80 on med format)….i think i mentioned this before you hung out with us here, but the one piece of gear that has been with me forever and works on everything is my little Vivitar 2500..a $25. amateur flash that hooks up to every camera i mentioned and a whole bunch i didn’t…why this one?? because it has an auto setting that allows it to work with the lens wide open..i prefer to shoot wide open and low iso (generally i do not want nor like depth of field)….most amateur flashes put out too much light..my way (not the only way) with flash is to not use too much OR use a whole lot…most photographers i know (including the most well known) have no clue about strobe…they get confused,lost…oh yeah, the other secret of flash is to put a band-aid over the flash lens..flesh colored band-aid with the gauze just in the middle to soften…or use a tortilla chip instead…certain colors of beer bottles work well also…yes, of course you can get the color balance right in photoshop…but, for me i just have to see the picture the way i want it right off..either on the contact sheet or on the viewing screen…see what a techie i really am??

    cheers, david

  • ….A tortilla chip????? Good move!! I tend to use toilet paper, napkins, fingers (a lot), and plastic milk bottle bottoms (you get funny looks with this one but it works a treat)…or just stop right down and bust it straight in their face(tends to blind people but the shots are sometimes worth it)
    but a tortilla, I like that.


  • David

    Yes, less is more. I still have a 283 with a variable thyristor. Would that would be usable? What a great idea. How about Scooby-Doo band-aids?

    I have always felt that I should be hired for what I bring back, not for what I can do after I shoot. Perhaps that comes from many years of chrome. Getting it right in the camera never gets enough emphasis.




    yes, i use my fingers too..flash filtered by blood works….and sometimes a styrofoam coffee cup….and last, but not least, wheat bread….


    yes, the variable thyristor of course works, but is too large for me…i am just always looking for something simple, small, light….something where i cannot make a mistake…for me, the less buttons, the fewer options, the better…too many options mean too many mistakes in my case…my theory in general about gear…while you are thinking about all the options, the picture goes away…


    let’s wait to see what John Vink says…i am interested as well….but, i can imagine he thinks pretty much what i think…photographers in general really do complicate the photo scene with way way over thinking everything…getting too too involved with everything except simply taking pictures..so many get too too mixed up in the “networking”, too too wrapped up in tech, too too obsessed with figuring out how somebody else did something that won a contest or whatever…

  • Andrea

    I do not have an answer to your question but this might help……

    “You don’t “take” pictures, you make pictures; you make them well and use them to communicate, to help the people and the situation. Many times the suffering people in the Sahel would see me working and they would ask me to come and photograph them or a loved one as a way of helping to solve the problem. In time they come to your camera like they would come to a microphone, they come to speak through your lens.” –– Sebastiao Salgado


    What are you up to in Phnom Penh ?


    Things we dont do…Weddings very strange afairs….
    I have just spent three weeks shooting stills for a scifi feature film. Not my usual gig. Not a lot of sci fi down here in Tassie. Not a lot of feature films for that matter. It saved my credit cards from certain death. I just wish so many people didnt have to die for my credit card.
    I’m told they didnt really die, but all that makeup and stuff just looks soooo real.

  • Yes, you are so right David. The reason I carry the manual for my D300 is to find what my wandering fingers did to a setting. I don’t think they will ever make a camera to handle my kind of idiot.



    Thanks for Burn David.


  • David

    Yes, I know you and Leica have close relations, but you have missed the part I was talking about Cuba beacuse for many people Cuba + photography = DAH :)

    And I will have to choose between d700 and used M8 soon. Any suggestion?
    For “my” photography M8, for assignments D700.
    I can’t have both. What you think? Be practical or romantic? :)


    yes, i understand…but for me, i have my Cuba book and all the Cuba work that was in Div Soul..a Leica advertisement shot in Cuba would not be my legacy in any case..that said, of course, it would be fun to play with the M9 in Cuba…or anywhere!!

    hmmmm, that is a tough question…you know i always vote in general for romantic…i thought you mostly shot film?? what you should really have is the MP….it works…100%….are you all digi now??

  • Hi all,

    Not long ago I was diagnosed with a serious disease that endangered my life. I had surgery and here I am.

    Still, I have a cronic condition that can turn into a f…ing lethal cancer at any time, but here I am.

    I have to keep an eye on the thing and have periodical biopsies every few months for the rest of my life…. but here I am (maybe you guys understand better my comment on the last essay published…)

    Paradoxical as it may sound, the whole experience has been an awakening for me. I enjoy EVERYTHING, but especially the most simple things, much much more than I did before. Besides that, I decided that I needed to do what I had always dreamed of, so I enrolled in a 2 year photography program. One day, this guy David Alan Harvey that you must have heard of, came to give a workshop at the school. I could not attend because the event was restricted for the Master students (2nd year), but I googled the guy….and here I am!!! ;)

    Anyway, I guess my point is that my Avalon….is being alive!!. As long as that remains constant, I can do whatever I want!!

    Patricia, Andrea or any other, if you want to add a new burnian friend to your Skype list, just send an invitation to user “ramonmasaguilera”.

    See ya’ all around…..’cause here I am!!!

    Ps: Sorry if there are typos or grammar mistakes…I’m not an english native speaker.


    nice to see you here again….well, i have a small class in BKK and Phnom Penh…and i just want to see Cambodia today…i need to have some good memories…what i saw in the early 80’s is a memory i want to erase…the class gives me a good reason to go…..might make it to OZ as well….you around??


    i have been in exactly your situation and had you come to my class, you would totally understand…life threatening situations do make you an optimist….i know what you mean by “liking everything”…just another day, a walk in the park , a fresh breeze, are treasures….

    by the way, what school was it where we missed??

    cheers, david

  • DAH…

    It was in EFTI (Madrid). Remember I contacted you a few weeks later regarding a possible “Burn en Español”?…

    Anyway, this is the first and last time we miss. Next year either you come back to Madrid or I go to your place in NY (or other workshop), but I’m not going to let other opportunity pass!! ;)

    and here I am.


  • David,

    I mistakenly posted something under the last essay. Please erase. But…did you receive my e-mail?

  • To ANDREA C.

    Wow, almost two hours of being update from the “Avalon” post. Being unplugged from BURN costs a lot of time… :-)
    I’ve really like the story that emerged after you posted your question and a lot of burnians people answered here.

    I think photography or being a photographer is the best “autopsycoanalisis” one can do for yourself.
    Digging inside is a very rewarding experience (sometimes is a scary experience).

    By the way, where are you from?
    I think India is a great country to take pictures, colors, traffic jam, people, etc… but what about starting a project nearby your home… you speak the language, you can get involved with the subjetc, and viceversa. It’s cheaper. Show respect to the one you are photographing and they will show you the same way, so you can get deeper…
    Travelling is a great adventure also. Is up to you.

    To ALL: Yes very sad about the news of Willy Ronis… and also very sad about the same news of Christian Poveda, a great french photographers that was found dead on Sept 2nd while working in a awesome documentary about “Las Maras” in Salvador. Pictures were really GREAT, and HE was involved with the subjetc for a least ten years of work in Central America.

    Abrazo a todos, always looking forward,

  • Nice post Ramon. I am not really much of a skyper. I think you could expect a call from Patricia though. But thank you for the invite and maybe one day I will feel “it’s time” to call Ramon.

    I use headphones and i call a landline. I thought the echo was coming from the headphones and the lag just part of the skype experience.

    Matthew, re: “You don’t “take” pictures, you make pictures; you make them well and use them to communicate, to help the people and the situation. Many times the suffering people in the Sahel would see me working and they would ask me to come and photograph them or a loved one as a way of helping to solve the problem. In time they come to your camera like they would come to a microphone, they come to speak through your lens.” –– Sebastiao Salgado”

    I know this will sound argumentative but its not meant to be.

    In my first photography course some of my teachers taught us the difference between taking pictures and making them. Making pictures is done in the studio for example. Its when you rearrange stuff, buggerise around with lighting, have an assistant perhaps to boss about. Taking pictures is what photojournalists, snap shooters and most amateurs do. Point the camera at something, twiddle some nobs. Press the button. The difference then is between manipulating the objects of real life and not.

    This is not to say that one is better than the other. Of course not. But i think its much more accurate and so i do not agree with Salgado that he is making pictures when he photographs. People give, he receives or takes. Stealing pictures is something else altogether and I think its pretty obvious what is meant by it. Taking pictures without asking (whether explicitly or with a nod from the subject or some other gesture of tacit agreement) is stealing pictures. Its not a judgement call. Its a term that best describes what’s happening. I think.

    Not everyone is trying to solve a problem with their camera. Sometimes people just come because they like the attention or know enough to know what a photograph is and want to be part of that. I think unless the people know what his work is aobut its a bit of a stretch to that people come to help him solve their problems. He’s being romantic or something.

    Digital is great in that you can quickly show people a result. Many people come to my camera also, particularly in India. But a lot of other scenes and people i want to photograph don’t come to my camera. It is lovely the phrase “they come to speak through your lens”. Yes they speak but, so do we through their gaze. It is to our gaze that they adjust their faces, their thoughts which affects their expression, their mood also which affects their expression. I noticed this many years ago when I was doing an essay about my grandmothers family album. It’s to the photographer’s gaze that they respond for the most part. When a subject is aware of our gaze they respond to it. When a subject is either not aware of it, or perhaps not self-consciously engaged with it, their gaze is perhaps not affected by us. Perhaps that’s why there is this greater belief in the objectivity of a picture that seems to have been caught unawares.

    One of the things I love most about photographing Indians (which is probably true of other people from other cultures where everyone doesn’t yet own a camera) is that they are not gazing upon themselves in their mind’s eye when their picture is taken so their expression is more natural and more engaged with you the photographer. I have one shot in particular that i would like to show you but how to do that except by posting a link to a whole lot, I don’t know. I will explain it instead. It’s just a young woman in a cotton sari, yellow and green, standing with arms hanging by her sides and in front of a doorway. Its a three-quarter. She’s a South Indian. She has the most sweet and simple expression. And a lovely face with clear skin and big eyes. To me her expression means not only that she must be, or is, probably a lovely sweet person but also that she liked me and what I was doing (photographing her and her family). It sounds like a very unsophisticated picture but she just seems to represent human goodness, human simplicity and human sweetness.

    Westerners who are used to being photographed and have seen themselves in so many pictures learn to alter their expression for what they think will look good. They often have a fixed idea of what they like and what they’d like to look like and rearrange their faces self-consciously to achieve that look. My sister is truly terrible for this. She is goodlooking but most of the shots are ruined because of her extreme self-consciousness. And because I am her sister, I can’t give her good direction. It’s just a disaster. But luckily because she is pretty, there are always a few that work.

    I think I will make Richard Avedon my portrait idol. I’d love to see a video of him in action on The American West.

    I didn’t mean to go on so long.

  • Oh yes…
    My Avalon: Mountains! The only place where I look to nature and I remain shy for hours and hours…


  • DAH – I knew I was on a loser with Heineken …..from now on it’s VB 4 Me…nice ambery brown bottles.

    NEWTON – glad to see you survived annother Tassie Winter!

  • PatricioM

    G’day. I just posted while you were posting so I missed yours. (Gosh I hope no one feels I am taking over this place. I feel like I am. Sorry. I will shut up soon. But I have no other forum to wax lyrical about these things and well I guess what’s been bottled up has been unleashed. Somewhat.)

    Thanks. Photographing in India has other purposes to me. Not just photography. But I won’t say more about that for the moment. But next year I hope I can do something here too. It’s not that I can’t think of projects close to home, it’s just that I am not deeply moved to go after them. (I am not even sure if i am a project photographer type of person. I might only be a superficial travel photographer type. I expect this will resolve itself in the coming years. Not having gone to photojournalism school and not having pursued this type of photography at artschool means I have no skills in this area and have to start from scratch. I would be well out of my comfort zone to start doing that but I guess I will get around to it. Maybe I am just a flaneur.) That’s probably why I’d like to go back to the outback. It’s not like home but it’s closer to home than India, that’s for sure. I like things that are different from what I am used to. I love adventure and unfamiliar things. I do love the exotic I have to admit and I like being on the road. I just hate chilli. But I am photographing close to home, just in a non-project and somewhat random way. More as daily exercise. I am an Aussie. Australian.

  • ANDREA C – So lets see some pictures?

  • a civilian-mass audience


    “…my point is that my Avalon….is being alive!!. As long as that remains constant, I can do whatever I want!!…”

    You are Ramon MASS HERE YOU ARE.
    I don’t have Skype yet…not even a computer…but I have olive oil, ouzo,kalamari and mousaka…
    ah and some sardines…Are you from Spain? near Italy? come across to Greece…be prepared to share
    and enjoy !!!

    LOVE to you…STAY STRONG…we are here !!!

  • a civilian-mass audience

    and before I go

    VIVA AUSSIES too and VIVA Detroit !!!:)))

    Antio for now…where the haik is the music???

  • finally finally 50 rolls of processed film, can’t hardly see out of my r eye from looking through a loupe to see what’s what..more sheets to look at..then i begin the low res scanning fest…

    David B

    you and Tor and B were in my dream last night..you all were instructing me on something ;)

    Tom you were there too..listening and learning and also adding your thoughts..

  • Audrey..

    beautiful Willy R signed a book for you, yes?


    We’ll definitely talk some day, although I’d prefer it to be in a photo workshop.. :)

    Regarding your posting, I am not so sure I agree with you. I really don’t think that the difference between “taking” and “making” comes down to manipulating the objects of real life or not.

    Thinks of a painter who’s painting a landscape. He’s not rearranging a single bit of reality, still he’s “making” a painting, right?. Ok, maybe it’s not the best example, but I guess my point is that, although reality is there, he’s portraiting things as he perceives them. Another artist placed in that same setting, would probably paint a different painting. Maybe he would wait till the light is warmer, or would simply pick a different angle. Again, the reality is there, immmutable, but you would surely see two different paintings.

    We as photographers, actually as human beings, are always “biased” by our own experiences, inner feelings, beliefs and so on…..so no matter how faithful we try to be to reality, that will always be our interpretation.

    The moment you chose to shoot, where how you positioned yourself with respect to the light, the angle chosen, the edit…. all that “makes” a picture…at least to me.

    this is of course my interpretation, does it make any sense to you guys?

    I have to go Patricia is Skyping!! :))

  • ERICA…

    can’t we kill two birds if we look at your edit and then the interview??


    I just lost your Skype message and don’t know how to retrieve it. Could you please try again?


  • DAH

    we could indeed..it’s just a matter if you think it will come out as well if you speak your thoughts to me or write them at your ‘leisure’..but it doesn’t seem you have much of that theses days, so I am certainly happy for either, I just want you to feel well represented / reflected..

    there is a loft workshop coming up too, yes? if there is time in general for me to come by separate from edit/interview, I’d be interested in seeing if I can make that happen, maybe just observe or write something or??

  • Sure Ramon, most of that I agree with anyhow. I just prefer the version I gave of making and taking pictures. I think it’s a meaningful distinction.

  • And now I’ve visited with Ramon. Skype is changing my life!

    Andrea, no echo and neither of us was using headphones. Perfect sound and picture.



    the “taking” or “making” of photographs is largely semantic/academic is it not???…we all know the difference between the “decisive moment” and a “constructed” image…some consider themselves “taking” a picture, when others would consider it “making” for exactly the same picture..i.e the Salgado reference..he thinks he is making, others think he is taking…does it matter?? i am not speaking of behavior or intent, merely the use of those two verbs….


    i am laughing with your new found toy…incidentally, Burn would not even exist without Skype…that is how Anton and i put this thing together…now , which one of us is going to be the poster child for Skype??

  • David, I think i am responding to people who have taken issue with my talking about “taking” pictures. I can’t remember the content of all the posts that mentioned it but several have. It falls off the topic of my original question and no I don’t think its particularly important. I although I always thought it useful to think about taking and making pictures that way. There is a tendency for people to redefine words so that they lose their meaning and become somewhat meaningless. David (B I think) did it earlier in response to my mention of stealing photos. See I think people understand clearly what is meant by stealing photos – ie a photo taken without asking. I think his explanation that taking a photograph is a gift is nonsense. Unless you actually give them a copy. Well yes you can argue its a gift if you want to say that they had an interesting experience for a moment of two of posing and being the centre of your attention but after that. No i think its silly to talk about it like that. But i think the photographer gets more out of the exchange. Its not a judgement, its a description.

    Yes i would rather not argue about these things. Perhaps I should just not respond when someone says something i disagree with, even when they’ve reinterpreted my version. It like people willfully changing the meaning of what i am trying to say. But nevermind. In the grand scheme of things this is not important. I guess in discussions like this, though, semantics really does come into it. It is bound to happen.

    I am grateful that people have engaged with me here and tried to answer my questions. It has been helpful.

    http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=34512&id=1053963778&l=24f4234ef1 Glen Oh sorry, I just realised you said some. I hope one will do for now. I see you are from Darwin. I love Darwin.

  • http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=703249&l=c6b111af83&id=1053963778

    The one above was the wrong link. This one should be better.


    Yes, MP is just perfect… just like my M6 whitch lies in case since January.
    Yea I am digital man now. I prefer work than waithing. In my life is many ups and downs so I have to be independent of what I have in pocket actually. This year was for my familiy but next one I want work hard, make some essays.
    M8 Is almost perfect but full frame is full frame. We’ll see.

  • Andrea C:

    the problem with writing ‘i have no idea what bob is talking about” is itself problematic….it’s not a problem when photographers dont feel, get, understand or have familiarity with others work, or the tradition of photography…however, when a photographer is steeped in a certain tradition and the allusions are there, it’s a total disservice to disqualify work and others who see in that body of work just because the viewer is not familiar with it, doesnt get or like it….you may not like a particular body of work (that’s cool) but to dismiss it without a thought that it’s particular venacular or style is there for a reason is silly….

    we’re talking professional photographers….as one myself, i try to treat all work here, by all photographers, professional, non-professional, student, just-learning, daytrippers, nightwalkers, old foggies, young kin, etc, with the deepest respect, time and contemplation of the work they have had the courage to submit and exhibit….

    ….it is a shame that doesnt happen enough with some of the commentators…the more risk, the more gained….moreover, in many senses, the essay is in total opposition to much of what is being done in contemporary chinese photography, both in fine art and in journalism….you may not believe me, but as a photographer whose own work was in a shown on ‘dialogue with asia’ and who helped curate a show (and a projection) on contemporary chinese photogrpahers, it’s a lovely essay to see…and filled with lots of stuff, if viewers were patient enough to chew upon it….

    the moriyama picture:

    the FAMOUS & GREAT Moriama photograph that Wenjie’s number pic no. 15 alludes too:


    as for Provoke, well Provoke Magazine was one of the most important and influential post-war Photo magazines in History…it was a short-run, short lived Japanese magazine……though it was short lived…it cultivated and promoted a certain style that was rarely seen or appreciated up to that time…it focused on the work of the great and extraordinary photographers at that time: Moriyama, Hosoe, Tomatsu, Araki, Fukase, etc…some of the best work done in the late 20th century was published in those magazines…and Wenjie’s story has a large relationship to it…

    you’ve asked alot of questions…and one of the things i try to do here, time and time again, is to provide references and a framework for work that viewers can latch on to or reference or read about in order to reflect…it doesn mean that they have to enjoy the photography shown here….but….

    what i find often the most frustrating is how narrow many many photographers are in their knowledge of photographic work…except their own…or work that their work was inspired by….

    anyway, to each their own….


  • AndreaC:

    ¨Stealing pictures is something else altogether and I think its pretty obvious what is meant by it. Taking pictures without asking (whether explicitly or with a nod from the subject or some other gesture of tacit agreement) is stealing pictures. Its not a judgement call. Its a term that best describes what’s happening. I think.¨


    from Wikipedia:
    ¨theft is the illegal taking of another person’s property without that person’s freely-given consent¨

    I could not disagree more with your statement. When we walk down the street we look, we see, we watch, we observe, perceive, intuit, judge, decide, feel, think about, choose to react to or ignore every single person that we come across. Would you say that these little vistas into other people´s hearts, souls, minds and lives are stealing? Whether we choose to preserve the moment mentally or mechanically…are either one or both stealing? All the video devices, guards and cameras that are set up pretty much everywhere to observe, record and archive our movements, is that stealing? When shooting a group of people, do you ask permission or get a nod from every one? If not all then which ones? The ones that are closest while the others become collateral damage? And what do you do with a photograph where someone unexpectedly passed through the frame? Hit delete? Is there no place for spontaneity, jubilant, stream of consciousness shooting in your world of permission granting?

    Statements like this kind of make me crazy. It all becomes too rigid, too judgemental (and yes, i do think your statement is highly judgemental. You don´t shoot without permission so anyone else who does is stealing). Life as we know it, as we document it, as we express our reaction to it..our job as photographers is very serious business. Without our pictures no one will know how it was. And how it was is how it is, life in all its unposed, disroganized, chaotic, spontaneous, unplanned, unexpected, serendipitous moments.

    If you want to subscribe to a strict moral code out of your own sense of privacy rights, by all means do so. Using words like ¨stealing¨to describe other ways and styles of documenting life might have been used too quickly and thoughtlessly. As individuals wielding powerful machines to record what goes on around us, we all have to establish our own moral code with respect to the countries and cultures where we find ourselves. And we will all do this differently. Soooooooo, for me, vive la différence!


  • David Alan H.

    nag moment..

    are you going to be at the loft between Christmas and New Years? Enquiring minds want to know..

    thanks for all that insight into your use of flash. i always found flash to be that really REALLY puzzling thing that makes my camera top heavy. although i have used my fingers but that was only because i didn´t have the slightest idea of how to control that one-eyed monster. i DID do a kick-ass project with my D70 and flash once and then couldn´t understand why i couldn´t achieve the same results using my D200. You might have just explained why that was so. I just gave up trying.

    best to you

  • Question of the day:
    was HCB a “thief”…?

  • Davin,
    speaking of HCB..
    Why don’t u try his approach..
    Dress Romanian ,Use a ZENIT , be a fly on the wall..!

  • Panos

    the worst kind obviously ;)

    but you know, here´s a curious anecdote that illustrates HCB´s own code of ethics (however contradictory)..

    John Loengard published a book ¨Celebrating the Negative¨ where he photographed the negatives of iconic photographs along with descriptive and historical text. He wanted to publish HCB´s negative of the two prostitutes in Mexico City, a print that has been widely published. However, HCB adamantly refused Loengard´s request, saying ¨Oh, no, NO! NO! Think of their feelings! They might be grandmothers now. No, No! You can´t publish that!¨

    so..yes, we all have to decide these things for ourselves…methinks..

    best to you in mini-Salvador!


  • Kathleen,

    I strongly insist that you have misunderstood me. I really am not saying that to take an image without permission is a bad thing, but it can be. I am not making a judgement by using the word stealing. I use it because its the best one I know to describe it. I for one feel better when I can get agreement, tacit or overt. I want to point out that I also admitted earlier to stealing pictures – when I first used the term back a few pages in my question. I certainly don’t think its illegal and I guess my usage is wrong there but I wanted to distinguish between taking-a-picture insofar as its what we say we do when we press the shutter ie the most general term, (as we native english speakers use it, I guess spanish and french would say “make”-a-picture). and distinguish this from taking-a-picture-without-asking. Certainly, not everyone likes their pictures to be taken by passing strangers, for whatever reason. In Australia, and I suppose its the same in most western countries, there is a lot of suspicion about passing strangers taking pictures. And it’s getting worse and worse. Its so bad that its almost stupid and soon I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of picture taking becomes prohibited, although I hope the lawmakers can keep their heads and not let things descend to that level.

    But in other cultures we know their suspicions can be, albeit wrongly, to do with fears of having their soul stolen or some such gibberish and then it seems culturally insensitive to take a picture without permission. (Or another example is of foreign men in a place like rajasthan taking pictures of women because its such a segregated society (but of course I know many foreign photographers have taken many pictures of the women there.) At least that’s what you hear. I am not sure so many really heed that but you do hear of it. There is definitely a bit of “something” not so positive about taking pictures without permission. OR is that only the case when tourists do it,or do you think I am the only person who thinks this way. Is it always totally ok and justifiable when professional photographers do it? I don’t know. I’d be interested to know. Because I really don’t think that professional photographers should have any more right to snap away at anything that takes their fancy than anyone else. Not really. I know that the law says we can take pictures of people and places and things and so on in public. But i guess even so I feel one needs to be discrete and sensitive, not just in order to get the picture we want but to not offend and upset people. Otherwise its merely justification for the methods of the paparazzi if you want to take it to its extreme.

    I get the impression from the vehemence of your objection, Kathleen, that you feel entirely justified and without the slightest discomfort that its ok to snap a picture of whatever you want. Is that so? Maybe its just that I have no professional experience. Perhaps that’s why I feel the way I do. Perhaps my guilt about it, is misguided.

    Maybe someone can give me a link to a discussion of this matter in the ethics of photography. I am sure it has been discussed and debated seriously somewhere. When I can read a persuasive discussion of such things that I am not clear on. It helps me sort out my mind.

    Of course there are situations like in a busy street where of course you are not really going to ask anyone’s permission to take a street scape type of picture. I want to make sure its clear that I don’t mean that sort of picture. I mean more like if on that busy street you see a guy doing something interesting. He’s standing not far away from you. He’s going about his private business. And you want to take a picture of him where he is going to be the focus of attention of your photograph. Where you are taking the picture because of him, not whoever else happens to fall within the frame. I know it would affect the scene to catch his eye and ask his attention. Its so annoying to have to do it. I mean if he hasn’t seen you, i’d probably do it and feel only slightly bad about. But i can’t point my camera at someone who knows I am there, who is likely to see me raise my camera and aim straight at them and not ask for permission. To me that seems disrespectful. Except when I am at a place like my local market where after a bit i realise that the stallholders are quite used to and accepting of strangers taking their picture.

  • Like DAH, I think the issue of “taking” vs. “making” a photograph is largely semantic. I had never really thought about it in depth until I was looking through Sam Abell’s book “The Life of a Photograph”. To paraphrase, there is a photo of train about to derail in front of a taxi in Davenport, Iowa. In the text, Abell states “…it’s the only photograph in this book taken and not made.” I wrestled with his intent, until I came to the conclusion, that for me, the difference is composition (and exposure & focus to a lesser extent).

    While searching for a link to the photo to post here, I came a cross a link on Jeff Ascough’s blog (who happens to be the most kick-ass PJ-style wedding photographer IMHO) is which he address the same statement in the book. His post is much more well-written than mine:

  • if
    ‘stealing’ photos is in your thoughts……
    probably best to put the camera down….
    its a beautiful dance,
    in the street with your camera…
    and trying to chose your partner…
    sometimes you get
    a twirl…….
    I think its something you have to feel,
    it can’t be taught….
    that interaction,
    that moment…
    is felt
    and then seen…..
    for me, of course….

  • I see now that what I’ve stumbled up against is the standard opinion of photojournalists, which I’ve done unwittingly. But what’s in that blog Justin, to me describes the difference between a snapshot and not a snapshot even though the writer uses taking and making for his terms. But I’ve opened up a can of worms of semantics here when i started by using the term stealing back in my original question and someone (I think it was David B) responded by discussing the taking and making of pictures. I feel that this forum doesn’t like an ongoing debate about such things, given partly that its only got one thread at a time going. And i understand since these are all probably things that are taken as given by all the experienced people here and I probably just look like the person who doesn’t know anything. So I will bow out of this debate now. I certainly think that David AH’s terminology is much less problematic “the decisive moment” and “a constructed image.” Except that a lot of photojournalist pictures I see have no decisive moment. In fact I thought there may have been some trend against it. But that’s another tangent, another discussion. Haleluyah.

  • AndreaC

    It´s a sticky wicket, no doubt about it! I have thought and thought about this myself and bottom line simply concluded that i am documenting life, it´s still legal to do that and it´s all good. If i am going to put the camera to my eye, i generally (95% of the time) ask permission and i´ve had really wonderful interactive moments with these subjects. If i want to capture a moment that is exquisitely fragile and tenuous i get close and shoot from the hip at the same moment that i am also moving away. I do not linger. It is a click and gone. I am very aware that different cultures respond differently to pictures. I was in the hinterlands of Guatemala once and wanted to shoot a policeman eating watermelon. I asked permission and the man turned red and stammered and walked away. Another bystander told that it´s considered offensive to take a photo of someone while they´re eating. Who knew? I live in Costa Rica and there is no such taboo here.

    I am not professional. I am a foreigner in the country i have lived in for 20 years. For the first ten years i walked the streets and looked at everything and everyone. Every bit of clothing, interaction, body language, expressions of affection, everything. I stored up so much crap in my head that it was inevitable that it would start to come pouring out again and that´s when i began shooting. For me it is a way to record what i see as someone who lives pretty much alone on the fringes of society here. I am so sensitized, so aware, take nothing and no one for granted that i shoot so that i don´t go mad from all the input. That´s the reason for my vehemence. The camera is my eye, heart, mind and soul. I have to do this. If i ever have a disability or there´s a change in the law that prevents me from shooting..well…hmm..i honestly don´t know what i´d do.

    My only advice to you, Andrea is not to make too many rules for yourself. Sort out the right and wrong on the spot. If you don´t think you should shoot a drunk passed out on the street, then don´t. I know i don´t, but i never say never. I will never try to shoot another Mayan while he´s eating again, i can say that ;) But on the whole, don´t box yourself in because you may one day want to get out and you have no escape route.

    Hope i explained myself..i am not without conscience but i have no fixed coda that i adhere to.

    Good luck…

  • Wendy

    wow, grrl, you said it beautifully! oh yes you did..as always, so gently, positively and poetically.


  • “But what’s in that blog Justin, to me describes the difference between a snapshot and not a snapshot even though the writer uses taking and making for his terms.”

    True, but for me, that’s pretty much the difference. However, please bear in mind that I’m no pro. Never been published (other than press releases for my company) or ever been paid for my work. (But I do love photography.) To me, there is no right or wrong answer, only one’s interpretation, which is good enough for me :-)

  • Kathleen, you have explained yourself beautiful. You write well. I also took on board your tips before to Davin, i think it was about shooting surreptitiously. Its not a judgement call. Its a description. There was always stealing as metaphor. You know not literally illegal but a bit naughty.

  • Oh #$@#! the typo at the 6th word.

  • AndreaC

    a bit naughty???!!! hahahahaha, you BET and the adrenalin rush and the rapid pulse and all of it..even getting somewhat weak in the kneees sometimes..yesterday i made a quick pass through a bad area, snapping and walking like a house afire. Probably all the shots will be blurry. But as i turned back into a ¨safe¨ (there is no such thing here) area, i found my heart was pounding and i was lightheaded. Wow..what a high!

    i also better understand your meaning of the word ¨stealing¨..it´s an unfortunate word to use for documentary photography. It has such negative connotations (and denotation as well). But i´ll let you get back to the core of your discussion. The Decisive Moment was just ONE photographer´s approach to documentaqry photography. A photographer i spoke to recently said she´s fond of shooting the in-between moments. That really intrigued me a lot. HCB isn´t the bible. Keep reading, looking and shooting..



  • ‘the camera is my eye, heart, mind and soul…..’
    now thats beautiful….
    and oh so true…..

  • Bob to be up to speed on Chinese and Japanese photography and history of same, is a bit out of the mainstream or have things changed that much that students and practising pros are introduced to all that as routine these days. It certainly was not something I was made aware of when I was studying. I am aware of an interest in a the work of everyone else. Why else would I be here trying to catch up with things. And you might notice that I liked that picture of the hallway. But do i need to be aware of the reference to the past in order to like it? No I don’t think so. Does a reference to the art of the past make a picture a good one? No i think perhaps not. I didn’t even discern a particular vernacular or style except bad technique. If its all utterly deliberate, then I stand corrected but I still think i am not keen on it.

    My saying that I don’t know what you were talking about was not meant to sound quite as dismissive as it did but I am saying, i can only take the pictures on face value because I know nothing about all that – what you were saying in your comment – and in doing so, they don’t speak to me. All I see is bad technique. I don’t even find the essay holds together to say much of anything. The pictures don’t seem to be related to each other in any way. If it’s because of a poor knowledge of photography history, then perhaps i’ve missed something important but i don’t know. I can only say how they reach me. The photographer can easily decide whether my opinion is to be brushed off because its clearly ignorant or taken seriously.

    Perhaps the work would benefit from an expose of the sort that identifies all the allusions, nudges and winks to past masters. Work – photography and all art – often becomes much more meaningful to me after I have read about it. We don’t all see all the things that there are that are worth seeing that’s why there are critics and academics. Unless, once again, I am the only one who thinks this way, in which case, I stand corrected.

  • Marcin



    woops, i meant to answer you before…yes yes my door is open to you…that will be terrific if you can come over and hang a bit at the end of December…….my exact schedule is not exact, but i will make every effort to make sure we meet….


    That Skype-conf we had a couple of hours ago was veeeeeery inspiring. Thanks for that!!


    I hope you didn’t take my answer wrongly, I was just trying to help…


    I just arrived to Brussels last night and I’ll be spending the next 3 to 6 months expatriated here. A little bird just told me that there might be one of two Burnians here (Anton, Eric Espinoza?), so if any of you want to meet and have a beer (or two)….here I am!.

    Contact details: ramon.mas@kbc.be



    ah yes..well, if “taking” is used in the sense of “stealing”, then that is another issue…personally , i do not like to “steal” pictures…i like to be either very unobtrusive OR be totally integrated into the scene…but, even with the unobtrusive approach , i use eye contact and/or body language to get implied permission to take/make the photograph unless there is an event going on where the people in front of me are totally oblivious to my presence because they are so focused on something else, as during a carnival or a wedding or fiesta of some sort…usually people i photograph know i am there and a certain acceptance is part of the deal….often i talk to people before i photograph, often after…i just depends….yesterday i photographed some people who if i had spoken first, the moment would have been gone…so i shot for just a few minutes when the scene was just perfect…i sensed the right moment to then go talk to them..hung awhile , then shot some more…the first pictures were of course the best…so i got permission, but after i actually had done the work…of course, i either give away prints later or now with digi mostly email people their pictures the next day…if i am shooting film , i routinely make another set of contact sheets for anyone i have photographed at length….

    i truly like to have a symbiotic relationship with the people i photograph…it does not always work out, but mostly it does…

    cheers, david

  • I made you laugh? Woohoo!
    Actually I thought the ad was older! :D I just saw it once and didn’t recall what I had seen it in! The Nairobi story – I suppose that is considered new yet. It was in one of the NG’s I didn’t have… I just started getting them again about two years ago. Hehehe sorry I should have looked at that magazine before I posted. :D Oh well.

    So what kind of Tortillas do you like to use? the organic Blues? Reds? baked? Tostidos? salted? Lime flavored?
    I’m kidding…. An old photo teacher talked about the Vivitar as well! It’s probably the same one he used too.

    Very cool! Well off to develop film for the GF… Have a great day!


    for sure HCB is not the Bible…but, not a bad place to start in terms of thinking about moments…but, for the life of me i cannot understand what your friend meant by shooting the “in between moments” …in-between what?? as if there were such a thing as THE MOMENT…who says which moment is “the moment”?? certainly there is no formula, and if there was, then that would definitely be the wrong moment!!

  • Ramon, no hard feelings at all. Don’t worry.

  • David, that is how I like to work too.

  • David again… I should have said Only i end up with a different result. ie most pictures are with eye contact and not so many without. And in India, people often quickly jump to attention. If its kids they often run to stand in a line. Which is cute and can still be a nice shot but sort of ruins the moment.

    How can i like my photo album link to my name like the others have done with their websites?


    of course , you are both correct….

    Andrea is reacting without the references of which Bob speaks…so, hers is a natural , gut reaction and she cannot like this essay….Bob does have the background of knowing many bodies of work and conversely cannot help but think of work in its historic or artistic context…and so the old “no accounting for taste” axiom will get you out of anything or into anything…..

    i do feel that the more one views any art form , film, music, literature..all art, the more your tastes will change..what you liked as an entry level viewer, you may not like in three years because your viewing experience level will change…or vice versa…isn’t that true with everything you have experienced in life??? those who never change their opinions about something could either be considered as “sticking by their guns” or as “narrow minded” , again depending on your point of view….

    on the other hand one should never “try” to like something just because the critics have told you to like it or vice versa….in the real world critics and curators and editors do have a great effect on the careers of photographers and on the perceptions by the viewers of this work….”taste makers” they are often called…they exist in every form of expression…but, you can always take it or leave it…

    oh yes, Andrea you asked the other day about photography being specific to culture…again, as in all art, i would say yes for sure..there is a Scandinavian look, an Italian look, a German look, a Japanese look, an American look , a French look, an Eastern European look, and on and on….

    The Low City would obviously not have been photographed by a Westerner for example….

    the subjectivity of photography is its beauty both for both the creators and the viewers….creator and viewer are equally important…..over time it seems that a truly strong vision will be appreciated more than not and the weak will vanish….time and context will tell all…

    cheers, david

  • Justin

    I just checked out Ascough’s site. You are right, kick-ass stuff.

  • Hi Andrea

    With regard to Low City. The “allusions, nudges and winks to past masters” may or may not be something that the photographer is aware of, likely not I expect. Nor are the “mistakes” or “bad technique” necessarily deliberate.

    I think the references to past work, like appying rules of composition, are things that viewers apply after the fact to try and understand what is going on, and not something that most photographers deliberatly use when making photographs.

    “Bad technique” is sometimes deliberate, rule breaking for effect. Sometimes it is just embracing a “happy accident”. What sort of happy accidents we allow ourselves to embrace depends on how rigid we are about what is the “correct” way to make a photograph, and our personal aesthetic.

  • Hi David,

    I too was in Outer Banks photographing over the summer. Do you ever go down to Ocracoke? I think I approached the area a bit different from you. I will add a link to my photos if it might interest you.


    Oh and I’m sure someone has said “Nights in Rodanthe” already?


  • Okay David, I sent you a single as requested :))

    We’ll see what you think. It is from yesterday’s wedding, I am recovering but what a wonderful eclectic joy that was and i love, love, love grappelli/reinhardt style gypsy jazz. The photograph is nothing fancy, a straight ahead portrait of sorts, certainly “made” and a wonderful three-way collaboration, but we will see … i am neither a wedding nor portrait photographer but in a pinch … peace.

  • Stealing

    Stealing what?

  • SHANE…

    of course Ocracoke is always a favorite spot, even though it has changed radically the last few years…i am not sure what you think my approach is, since i only posted one picture to illustrate my piece…i look at all of the bad and good of what goes on down here..from the natural beauty to the destruction by over development etc…by the way, where was that clear cut?? on the Outer Banks themselves or on the mainland?? anyway, next time you are down here, please stop by….

    cheers, david

  • @ ANDREA…

    Go to your wordpress profile and you’ll see a line for your website. Type the URL into that and save. Voila!

  • David Alan Harvey

    Hi…my friend was referring to a photo she had taken of a guy on a horse at a “carreta de cintas”. He was sort of slouched over, getting ready to gun the horse into action and go for the cinta like the devil was after him. I said the photo wasn’t here nor there, that i wished the rider was more poised or that his position gave some indication of what was to come next. He was neither stopped nor running, neither waiting nor recovering from his run…She said she liked the “in-between” moments and that’s why she liked that photo. Maybe she was just shucking and jiving me but i did see her point completely in this case. It was an interesting idea to me. There is some mystery to it, nothing concluded or defined or illustrated. Just this rider in the middle of something. I liked the vagueness but i would still personally shoot more information. That was just her idea and it held a certain intrigue for me. Something to think about.

    Thanks for the open door to visit the last week in December..i’ll get loft addie and so forth before then!


    Saw this, thought of you..(from Robert Henri, “The Art Spirit”)

    “Courage to go on developing this ability to see in nature the thing which charms you, and to express just that as fully and completely as you can. Just that. Nothing else. Not to do as any other artist does. Nor to be afraid that you may do as any other artist does”…..

    “The most beautiful art is the art which is freest from the demands of convention, which has a law to itself, which as technique is a creation of a special need”.


  • Gordon, you make it sound like his pictures may be no better than snapshots. If it’s all a happy accident, with no awareness of how his pictures come out the way they do and no control of same, why are we throwing praise around. But I trust that its not like that since David has chosen to show this work, there must be something he knows that I don’t know. I’d like to know what it is. There’s something I don’t get but if three people do, I want to know what it is I’ve not got. I don’t believe its an accidental reference to past masters.

    Maybe it’s that it doesn’t look the same old thing. That’s true, it doesn’t.

    What I want from a critic is to tell me what I am not seeing. I hope someone can tell me what I’ve not seen. Ah, i should go to bed anyway.

    thanks for the link explanation.

  • i do feel that the more one views any art form , film, music, literature..all art, the more your tastes will change..

    It makes sense, yet who knows? Maybe like with Citizen Kane, “rosebud” is all where it all started and eventually comes back too, minus life “encumbrances”….

    I think personally it is exposure to things that slowly but surely allows us to finally go past hang-ups, prejudices, and outright dismissall.

    Is exposure synonymous with knowledge? Not quite.

    Knowledge and after-thoughts (and they come out differently, according to everyone of us) does not have too, but can definitely be an uncumbramce in purely appreciating a work of art, or conveying what can be conveyed about it (the problem between Andrea and Bob’s text).

    Whereas exposure, the best type of, simply consists in letting as little encumbrances between the object/subject and the viewer, so to experience it…. well, beyond knowledge.

    Which is exactly where art becomes art.

  • “She said she liked the “in-between” moments” Now that is an idea that i am familiar with. It’s not just specific to her, though it sounds like she is applying it photographically. I think, but am not certain, its Derrida. I think also that it’s an anti-decisive moment strategy. I wouldn’t say whether or not she’s doing it deliberately but I have come across this before and I often think i detect it in lots of photography. You see when I looked at David’s AH pictures yesterday, i saw very clearly the decisive moment. Most pictures i see now don’t have it. A lot seem to not have it, not because they are not good photographers but perhaps because they are avoiding it, looking for something else.

    When I went to art school, there was a bit of a looking down the nose at the decisive moment concept. And also National Geographic. Though i must say it wasn’t pushed on us. It was just around, a notion that one became aware of. It wasn’t explored directly but there was definitely an gentle side-swipe going on the whole time towards those traditional approaches. Rather than tackle it head-on we were being pointed in a different direction. It was a conceptual art school. Gaps were very popular. I’d say an in-between moment is akin to a gap.

    Now what Derrida might have actually said, I can’t remember. And if it wasn’t Derrida, maybe it was Lacan. It seems vaguely psychoanalytic. Anyway its a very interesting idea and when I think about some more, i like it.

  • totally digressed! :))))))

    I have done much better (slightly…) with the camera lately than my writings here. In my life, it spells: GOOD!

    PS: yes, Panos, not a thief. HCB was worse than that: A hunter. A predator. A DAHspicable character! :-)))

  • the decisive moment…… Most pictures i see now don’t have it.

    Thinking of this…. David, what happened with “bassin des tuileries”? ;)

  • the decisive moment of HCB is something I look for but something hard to find.
    But if noathing happen I have all my life for it :)


    I will work for it againe and again…


    I’ve just printed next part of my photos and I have to say my heart cry for velvias, but my pocket see only digital future.
    I would like to be romantic but life push me down.
    But I will find my quality in digi, i will.



    there is a general put down of Natgeo by many photographers including by some who photograph for the magazine…i think what one must realize is that many are trying to compare NG with a personal project, school idealism, or subjective book intended for a boutique photo appreciation audience, whereas ole yeller is intended not for photographers or the academic photo community, but for the general masses…any editor at NG will tell you that NG is NOT a photography magazine, never will be a photography magazine , but a magazine that simply uses photography…

    of course the funny thing i have noticed over the years is that many of the photographers, who are most vociferous about the NG put downs, can often be seen sliding in the back door looking for a NG assignment!!! i have seen the same at Magnum….blast NG, blast Magnum, then try like hell to get in!!! human nature….

    NG is viewed by most photographers who shoot there as a RESOURCE…a way to work…like a grant…what the editors publish at NG tends to follow their format as with any mass magazine, but the photographers are given an amazing amount of freedom, time, funding, to “do their thing”….and they do..and they publish their own books later with much of the work that may not have been used by the magazine..

    remember, NG buys a photographers time, but the photographers own their pictures….all of them…copyright to the photographer….photographs go into the personal archive of the photographer…..that is huge if you have not thought of it….

    let’s face it, NG is just a big target…American..color…and extremely successful…

    for some reason many forgive all the other magazines who rarely have anything significant in them, and NG catches all the flak…most magazines look impermanent and there are few expectations, whereas NG has a look and feel of finality…

    in any case, i only look at and judge the work of photographers in their books and exhibitions…what they may or may not have used as a resource is not important…

    one last thing about “avoiding” the so called decisive moment….it is quite popular to say that one is avoiding it, when in fact i think there are very few who can do it……try it and see…of course, that does not make it good and naturally artists must always reject what was once accepted or has for whatever reason been heralded…but, i do imagine a day when the ability to catch the moment(in between or not) will make a comeback…the over abundance of banality will run its course for sure…just too easy to copy…you cannot copy the decisive moment…i work with dozens of photographers every year who work in a variety of styles and the one style they cannot copy is that one….now, HCB only had one kind of decisive moment…impersonal…others have moved that forward…anyway, we will wait and see how history judges….

    cheers, david

  • Hi David

    I apologize for implying, I was judging somewhat from your words. But yes, I agree, it is a beautiful place, and unfortunately the effects of commercialization will continue compromise its beauty. It is a long stretch of beaches though, I suppose a complete transformation will take a very long time. And there of course will always be the secluded areas of beach in between the towns!

    The photo of the cleared lot is on the mainland off highway 158 on my route into the outer banks.

    I would be very much interested in visiting, those workshops of yours sound interesting ;) Please contact me by email if you wish to speak further! Do you stay in the Outer Banks through the winter? I imagine the area mostly shuts itself down, that might be a nice change.

  • David;

    Sometimes I think that NG should change its yellow border logo for a bullseye because it sure takes a lot of flak! :-) What other magazine currently puts as much money into its photos/words? None I’d say; especially in today’s economic situation.

    For example; what magazine would do a story like Bill Allard’s Hutterite Sojourn? That piece was an amazing amalgam of words and pictures. Obviously NG is not the be all, and end all of work; but it still sets pretty damn high standards.

    I suppose NG can never compare with many photographers’ book projects (eg. Larry Towell’s Mennonites), but they have usually been shot of years, not months.


    There is also the sort of “permission” you get to take a photo through body language too. You get an unspoken agreement to shoot. The other day I was shooting a Christian concert and a young girl (12-13-ish) was getting very emotional and her tears were starting to well up.

    First I wasn’t sure she whether she was getting upset about me shooting so close in such a personal moment. She looked up at me and I gave her a sympathetic smile; a sort of “I can see you’re emotional” type of smile. She returned the smile so I knew I was ok.

    No words spoken. I had been shooting for about 2 hours by that stage so she/everyone had seen I my intent and that I was respecting everyone. If I thought she was upset by my shooting I would have stopped.

    Mind you; the sight of me lying on the floor etc to get the right angles gave them a good laugh. Nothing like making a dick of yourself to break the ice! :-)


  • Andrea

    Yes, the “in-between moment” is interesting. It is not decisive nor is it necessarily stream of conscious. While my friend might not be deliberately shooting the in-between moments it seems she deliberately edits for the vague inconclusive moment..I am not sure as i haven’t talked too much to her about it but it might be interesting to consider, as you say, those awkward gaps..those twilight zone moments when time just stops and we hold our breath wondering what might be next..or what might have just happened. But the photographer isn’t definitive.

    Nice talking to you today, gotta go..be well everyone..



    Careful Mate, That VB will kill you ! What you need is Cascade Stout.
    Yep survived another winter, It was a shocker wet and nasty.
    Next year I think I will hit the road.

    I guess thungs are starting to get hot and steamy up your way…


    I’m always here ! just rarely have time to post. And constantly frustrated by being 12 hours behind the conversation.
    I have a few things on in November but I’m sure we can make something work if you can make it down to Aus.


    A sore eye is a happy eye !

  • SHANE..

    the tourists have already gone and it is still summer…so so nice…and i have a little pocket of privacy where i am…..and yes yes thank goodness the park service got a hold of so much land at the beginning of development, so those long stretches between towns will forever be preserved…my front yard is actually a state park, so i have taken advantage of that aspect..but, yes if you want to see the worst concepts of no taste go to almost any beach town ..right?? hmmmmm….and winter?? often just perfect, often miserable, but i like a fire going in the fireplace anyway…

    please check now my workshop page…i just added some pictures of my place in the Outer Banks….i think you will see what i mean…come on down…my door is open to you….

    cheers, david

  • Over analysis leads to piss poor work……….one can either rabbit on about it or take the journey……………………..a majority here seem prefer the rabbit

  • David I will hang you a email about the progress of the book….. I have been on the stonemasons trail lately, Saw some great work, the usual Robert points to his new work, you pause rub your hands along the joints, nod and watch the weather close in…………talk turns to the sky.


    interesting you should mention stonemasons, because i admire most artists who work with their hands and produce something SOLID..i am very anxious to work with you on a special edition book…again, solid….yes, please let me know where you stand and we can start to exchange ideas…

    i am working now with both Victor and Edmond…again, thanks for the contacts….

    cheers, david

  • Stonemasonary……..plied that trade for a decade, backbreaking stuff so I figured slow down and preserve, you will enjoy it a lot longer even if it is only periodically.
    I will send a link of progress of the book so far later in the week….. probably up to image 46(page 80 with text) or so, I am thinking about 60-70 otherwise it runs out of steam, I also revamped number two as a continuum.


    As long as you produce images with a good heart I dont think it really matters if the person knows what you have done. I think there is magic in unguarded moments, it is eluse, but some time you can come close to finding it….


  • Thanks Katheleen for the empathy!

    I am not gay, but I do have a hunch about the weirdness I’ve been experiencing here in Bucharest:

    It’s never the police telling me not to photograph, it’s random men. Last night at the police station with this nutcase bar manager I had to finally tell him that I am not a woman and that he needs to stay further away from me. He was obsessed with me. People always say Romanians are homophobic, but I am beginning to think that a lot of these Romanian men who are constantly coming after me are repressed homosexuals .

    There is something going on here that is definitely unique. These Romanian men lock onto me and my camera on my shoulder and don’t let go. It’s either male sexual attraction and/or a desire to conquer the intimidating male (me with the Canon or Leica). I must represent a threat to them. I don’t know what the heck they think I am going to do with a picture of a doorway on a side street, but there is level of paranoia and irrationality amongst these men that is pretty extreme. It’s all just so bizarre, I mean I don’t have these issues anywhere else but here.

  • AndreaC,

    Ceausescu visited North Korea and loved it and it was after this trip that Romania turned for the worse in the 1980s. Bucharest indeed became closer to Pyongyang than any other Eastern Bloc capital. Ceausescu’s Securitate, or secret police, controlled the country with an iron fist. The entire population was made docile because of fear. I mean, ultimately, what I am experiencing is to be expected here in Bucharest. It’s just making me mad and I do not think the country should be in the European Union and benefiting from such a relationship when it is still so corrupt and mean. Romanians think the country is full of corrupt officials and Romanian photographers also say they have trouble photographing their own countrymen on the street!

    Interesting, I somehow don’t have the issue with young Romanian women who actually ask me to take their pictures at parties:


  • Davin give it a rest leave the country……. or whatever…….geez you really come up one sheep short of a station

  • Whatever Imants. The way I have been abused her recently is completely crazy. People respond to my commentary having never been here. I am trying to wok as a photographer and I can hardly move down a street without being yelled at and, yesterday, dragged to the police. I only write in here to see if others have had similar situations and what they have done.

  • Imants, maybe I should move to another country. I mean on Burn I don’t read about anyone’s basic difficulties of shooting. It’s all book and exhibitions etc. etc. Just to operate here in Bucharest is a frickin chore each day.

  • Imants – just looked at your book …..No flies on you there Mr Krumins !

    Davin – whilst it’s very entertaining to read about the mean Romanian Bully Men and those unobtainable Bucharest Babes – If you can’t get laid and everyone hates you what the hell are you doing there?

  • Glenn, yea the books getting there, early days………. I reckon Davin is playing the tortured creative soul. Funny I heard the canned the last act. Or did they keep the “Alas poor Davin I knew him well….. ” part in? Hilarious to say yhe least

  • Davin

    I don’t know what to tell you..i am sure you feel like you’re the only man on the moon amongst a gaggle of staring aliens. But i mean, Romania has had a trip through hell during recent history. Who knows? Maybe the whole country is suffering from some collective psychosis. If you want to shoot there you have to overcome the problem. Nobody here really cares how hard it is to shoot in Bucharest or Lagos or Los Angeles. They just want to see good photos. Do whatever you have to do to make that happen. Think of the Pj’s who have to shoot through far worse stuff than you’re going through, and then on top of that have to smuggle negatives and/or files out of the country so the world knows what is happening in their part of the world. I sympathize, i really do but buck up, kiddo..imagine, if you can overcome this stuff imagine how much you’ll learn, how easy it will be to handle whatever comes at you someplace else.

    all my best to you

  • Glenn

    Saw your website..you have got some powerful light down there! You manage it sooo well..a real pro..i feel like i took a wondrous trip ’round your part of the world..nice work!



    Well, haven’t you found a little piece of heaven there on the Outer Banks!?! The photos on the Workshop page take my breath away. I am SO pleased for you. And now you are opening your door to share this wonderful place with workshop participants. Lucky them! Hope to visit you some fine day…



    Robert Henri’s “The Art Spirit.” Thanks so much for eminding me. This book was my bible back when I was seriously into painting and drawing back in the ’70s and ’80s. A real treasure for anyone who values the creature process.


  • Patricia

    Yes, i found “The Art Spirit” in a second-hand store here. It was all underlined and marked up and starred and asterisked so i thought, hmm, must be good. I keep it right next to my computer ALL the time! I didn’t know you drew and painted! i am taking a figure drawing class now and love it. Have you stopped drawing and painting altogether in favor of photography? I know it’s REALLY hard trying to do both..there’s not enough time. Just wondering..


  • RE: Robert Henri’s “The Art Spirit.”

    Thanks, ladies. One more book I need to read! :-)

  • From the editorial on the September 2009 issue of Dirk Halstead’s The Digital Journalist….

    “…We recommend that substantial amounts of funding in the form of grants from concerned foundations go to online publications such as David Alan Harvey’s Burn, Brian Storm’s MediaStorm, Bombay Flying Club, STORY4, 100Eyes, The Digital Journalist and others. Because of their vast knowledge of the Internet and their experience in editorial judgment, online publications will become the arbiters of who is deserving of these grants. They will earmark the grants for photojournalists with worldwide and local projects that deserve coverage….”

    You can read the editorial on “How to start to save photojournalism at the link:

  • Davin give it a rest leave the country……. or whatever……

    Imants, same wavelentgh.

    Davin, get a grip! your constant whining is starting to really be beyond immature, not to speak of xenophobic. If you can’t shoot people, shoot fire hydrant or building doors, there is just no excuse for whining as a photographer.

    Hola, everyone, what have you shot this week-end?….. No, you first! :-)

  • PETE…

    thanks for the link…i had not seen it…you see the article in PDN on Burn?? also cool….


    No I missed it. Do you have a link?

    I am still in D.C. Jen and I had a nice brunch this morning with Carl Bower and his new bride, and we had drinks with Michael Kircher this afternoon. Good company and conversation in both cases.

    I will be traveling tomorrow. Let me know if you want to run a photo from the protest.

  • KURT

    Loved our Skype visit! Thanks for calling…


    To start, let me say I meant to write that The Art Spirit is great for anyone interested in the creative (not creature) process. And your copy looks like mine. I underlined, wrote notes in the margins, and starred the hell out of almost every sentence in that book. Hmmm, wonder where it’s got to? I’ll try to track it down.

    Regarding my years as an artist, I’ve been at it one way or another since the mid-70s. Went to art college and then entered the “art world” in a serious way for about ten years. Was still painting until I bought my first DSLR in July 2006 and that was all she wrote for any medium but photography. Got hooked big time…and it just grows. God, I love this stuff!

    You say you’re taking figure drawing. That, in my opinion, is the finest education for an artist’s eye of all the art forms I tried. It forces your eye to slow down and REALLY look at what you’re seeing. Great training for a photographer too.


  • DAH, Just got off my very first Skype experience with Patricia, boy am I hooked. What a classy lady for my first time, she was very gentle and understanding of my awkwardness about the whole Skype thing. She gets my vote to be your Skype ambassador.

  • Justin

    It’s not the kind of book you have to read cover to cover..you just open anywhere, read a paragraph..put it down..it’s all good. REALLY good in fact..


  • Kurtlengfield,

    hahaha, sorry, but i just read your post and you sound so enamored, like you and Patricia just absolutely sizzled those electrons. Patricia must be ONE hell of a conversationalist! Man, i want some of what she’s having *wink*..


    ut-oh, i better see if there’s a name on the inside cover of my copy of “The Art Spirit”..sure you didn’t drop it into the Good Will Bin at some point? I also have a 2 yr. degree in art but somehow i managed to do it without ever actually drawing that i can recall, let alone painting. Avoided both like the plague afraid i’d find out how really lacking in talent i was. Did a bit of commercial stuff, burned out very fast and that was it till about ten years ago when i discovered digital photography and photoshop that was to me like etch-a-sketch..soooo fun! But yeah, lately confronting that old fear of drawing and wow, what a revelation! Figure drawing..sooooo hard, so gratifying, light, dark, volume, line, fore-f’ing-shortening..

    i am amazed you just started shooting in 2006 and wow, already a book! amazing, wonderful, thrilling..so happy for you, Patricia!

    well,back to scanning, scanning, e-i-e-i-ohhhhhh!


  • Davin, I asked you what the people say but you gave me a history lesson and told me what you think.

  • Hey David..

    Just saw a You-tube video about Divided Soul..what a great project,really shows your craving to delve into, know, understand, decipher the root of the incredible contradiction that is Latin America. It’s just incredibly compelling, isn’t it? And so were your pictures..a great watch..


  • At least Davin pulled the thread from Lightstalkers…….Romanians can read stuff on the net just as we can

  • Imants I think you maybe right in the short term, but I think it helps to do this (absorb and toss around) and then let it digest for a while. Then I don’t think it should necessarily leads to piss-poor work. I think its important to understand the ideas that are around and that have been around before. Most artists who ignore ideas and history of art end up doing piss-poor work too. They merely end up doing what people were doing a century ago. And they don’t understand the significance of what they are doing either.

    David, the Nat Geo issue that i referred to was more about anthropology. There was a lot of talk about the Other and our western tendency to treat people like objects. I never read this guy but I suspect a lot of the concern came from the ideas of Edward Said. At the time there was a lot of emphasis on becoming aware of where you put your focus – over there or on yourself (or your own backyard). Not in a navel gazing way but to stop treating people as exotic specimens. You see I think that whatever connection a photographer may make with the exotic locals, it seems hard to avoid showing them as curiosities. btw I love your work, Nat Geo and HCB but I never actually read anything about HCB and his way of working. Perhaps now is a good time for me to go back there.

    On the Decisive moment. I think lots of people have done it. But i appreciate that it is pretty hard to do it really well. Was it your pic where the kid emerged under the elbow of the boy who was looking out of the picture in the foreground. I think it was. That sort of moment would be either totally lucky or hard to catch I suspect. But then there are lesser decisive moments. Think of sports photography. Or don’t you consider that a decisive moment approach. I do.

    Kathleeen, on the in-between moments. I think its about paying attention to things that have been routinely and traditionally overlooked for being not significant. Recognising that there is meaning in those moments and in those small things. There are also serious things that get ignored and the idea of gaps and in-between expresses and needs to get those things out in the open. Anyway its all pretty philosophical but with an important point. And its part of that trend to write history about things like Zippers. It’s in talking about these little insignificant overlooked things that one can find other important stories that are also very big and important. For example the way women were left out of art history for such a long time. Anyway i am sure you are probably familiar with all that already too.

    But yes, David when you go back and see those pictures that have the DM that traditional way of taking pictures they really are powerful attractive pictures. Its not hard to see why people are attracted to working that way. And as you say its not hard to appreciate that banality will lose its appeal, except you know when the image is so well exposed and printed, its just simply beautiful, regardless of how dull the composition (but not bad) and subject matter. Perhaps it looks easier to do than it is. Maybe like all things there is good banality type pictures and bad. The good will hold your attention. The flip side is a fairly technically bad picture that shows something important. Ultimately its all about meaning. Aint it?

  • I won’t say anymore re: Bucharest. It’s interesting how people chime in with no idea really about what I am talking about. I’m not in Italy and I’m also not in a war with a fixer. I am alone in Bucharest. Anyways, I’ve been shooting here for 9 years, things just have been crazy lately with the restriction of human rights and I had to scream out. Of course all anyone cares about are good photos. I did an International Herald Tribune assignment here and told the editor about how I had been threatened with a meat cleaver while doing the pictures and she laughed and said ‘really, what did anyone have against you?!’ I was like, ‘What?! Romania is not like other places, you have to see it to believe it’. I am a pretty humble, light treading guy. I don’t speak out like this on most occasions. Maybe someone in Brussels at the EU will become aware of the corruption, lack of human rights and laws in Romania. I think people read this and think I’m just getting a few ‘don’t take pictures’ like you might anywhere. That is t is not case. People are threatening me physically with violence.

  • For all of those who make light of my situation and think I am some sort of cry baby. I am having to get police protection as the mafia has staked out my apartment after my Saturday night encounter.

  • Davin

    I saw a shocking thing on Romania last year..an undercover video of a woman trying to sell a 3 year old child. The little girl was standing there, the camera on her..her mother was trying to make the sale and the camera stayed glued to the girl’s face as it registered polite confusion mixed with shock and fear..one of the most horrific things i’ve ever witnessed. I can’t imagine what it must be like there..always wondered, always wanted to visit but after that…..no thanks.

    It really sounds like you need to leave, Davin. I’m not saying this in a critical way but from an ominous sense of danger and stress you seem to be under..the energy sounds really bad, bad, bad. Do you have to stay on there for very much longer?

    You kind of worry me..


  • Hi David, the movie who is featuring this house, is; Nights in Rodanthe (2008).

  • A heck of a lot of great people live in Romania

  • davin..

    it’s not that people here have not had trouble working / photographing or that we have found ourselves in very difficult circumstances at times.. living or traveling in harsh environments is extremely difficult without the kindness of strangers.
    i’m sure a few of us would tell tails which would make the hairs on your neck stand up.. so you are in good company.

    i think it’s just that people leave when the cynicism or the danger feels too real.. i have in the past.. and people worry.. people want you to sort out whatever the strife is so that they need not worry.

    i’m not certain what the motivation for posting your troubles with women or men here is – although i am certain that the same advice will come down from most here – please, as imants says, just leave for the time being..
    chip over to croatia for a break.. get on a train for a long weekend.. catch the last of the summer sun at balaton in hungry.. and breath a little.. it seems like things are getting on top of you and you’re loosing some balance.

    it may well be that you are being persecuted.. it might be that people are singling you out, making your life difficult and bullying you.. in any case – there is nothing to be gained from staying and enduring right now.. if you do not feel comfortable to work, then find somewhere else to work in the short term.

    this is just my opinion of course, although it is built up from many experiences which put me in a mind to be able to relate to you .. empathize.. some battles and hardships just are not worth enduring when there is an easy escape around the corner.. find that break and regain perspective… then maybe go back and find some of the excellent romanian people, instead of the dogs.

    i had a run in with the border police in the north there on 1992.. you know..

  • DAH,

    any news about getting people on burn assignments?

  • kathleen

    with the greatest respect it is not only eastern europe which has some disgusting human rights issues.. they exist the world over.. close to all of our homes.

    if you have ever wanted to visit i would whole heartily encourage it.. some fantastic times to be had.


  • PETE…

    the PDN interview about Burn was in the hard copy magazine…if it was online too, i do not know…


    when i look at your pictures, it seems as if you are in close and working with people just fine…however, i agree with the majority here…the combination of realities and your own state of mind would seem to dictate that you leave Romania at least for awhile…

    there is a shrill feverish pitch to your writing that indicates a high stress level that is not healthy…

    many of us here have worked in environments where many of the elements you describe are in place….but, you are attracting an unusually high percentage of negative vibes, for whatever reasons, no matter what the environment….i do not know how it got this way for you, no blame one way or the other…but, the Romanians you now encounter can “smell” in a heartbeat your feelings, your fear, your distaste …dangerous….time to leave…please.


  • GRACIE….

    no news…but, a whole lot of work is going on to see if this will be possible…we have had some very good and rather amazing articles on Burn in the mainstream media press of late and everybody in the biz is watching us…but, how this movie ends, i have no idea…

    later: i see Bob just posted the most recent piece in PDN below….check it out…pretty much will answer your question

  • Had a couple beers last evening with Pete Marovich and his wife Jen. Cool people and excellent conversation. Hope this happens more often with some of you Burnians. The face-to-face is invaluable.


  • Wow, DAH, that interview in PDN is fabulous! And it certainly sheds light on what you’re talking about when you speak of sponsored assignments. BIG TIME stuff!!! We sure are in the middle of a photographic paradigm shift here at Burn and you, my friend, are leading the way. Exciting times!


  • David Bowen and Imants

    Yes, both right..late at night working on photography sometimes my emotions run high and the visual memory of that woman and that child filled my head. But so true…one snake-in-the-grass does not an entire country make. Still, countries do not recover from revolutions, civil wars and brutal repressive regimes in one generation or even two. This woman wasn´t born with ice in her veins. She´s a consequence of something very dark and ugly. Maybe Davin has somehow gotton too close to what must still be a very hot stove.

    to both David´s..

    great advice to Davin. Thanks for the compassion and understanding you both showed him as working photographers who have experienced difficult times abroad and have learned when to pack it up and take the midnight train outta there for awhile. I hope he heeds the advice, if only for a short time to relax and de-stress.

    best to all

  • Davin…
    Since you seem to be very stressed in Bucharest, close to appear paranoid, my suggestion would be to stay off the streets for a while, or better, just walk those same streets without a camera for some time. Being so long in Romania you must know some local people, find a small project, work with a family, individual, or organization if possible, where you’ll have pre-approved access… it would give you a rest, and maybe this contact would make you figure out the ‘code’ of working with Romanians so you can hit the streets again.
    Needless to say, in my books, Romanians are no better or worse than any other people. Reading your posts here one would think that they are somehow special species. Cheers.

  • Velibor



  • davin..

    it seems a lot of your difficulties began when you made the shift from photographing in rural Romania to Bucharest. For me, part of the force and beauty of your rural images is their intimacy and your level of comfort and enjoyment of being with the people. Clearly, the dynamic is on the other side of the spectrum for you now, and i think it is inevitable that it will show in the work. maybe this isn’t the best use of your life as a photographer..why not find another piece that you feel an affinity with? There are subjects (mentally ill/unbalanced for example) that draw me for a myriad of reasons that I know take their toll on my psyche – it isn’t that I can’t get close and make a strong image, but I have to remind myself to let this be only a portion of my work. In the end, this is my (your) life, and it is important to do work that nourishes so more work can be done, and done well.

  • a civilian-mass audience


    in Greece we have lots of Romanians… we are helping many families…
    they are working hard…sending money back to their families…
    They are telling me that in a way …Davin, you are not that kinda crazy…
    life is not easy up there…
    probably they are scared of you …maybe they are trying to defend who knows what…:)))
    follow your “inner soul” and if you go wrong ,then come south…for ouzo.

    Cause as Michael wrote : “The face-to-face is invaluable.”
    VIVA BURN family
    I LOVE YOU BURNIANS…love you SPONSORS…love you DJ’s …love you PJ’s,readers,writers,civilians

  • Davin..
    I feel u..
    Never been to Romania but,
    after I watched the “village” scene
    from the movie Borat( shot in Romania and not in Kazachstan)..
    I get the feeling..
    take a break.. Long break and never go back..
    Everybody knows u now over there.. No way to be stealthy..
    Even if you walk around with no camera you will
    attract those vibes..
    Time to move on…

  • Or.. as Erica said .. just go back to those rular areas/countryside
    away from Bucharest…

  • AKAKY: The face to face is invaluable.

    AKAKY IRL: Really? Says who?

    AKAKY: Michael.

    AKAKY IRL: Ah.

    AKAKY: What does that mean?

    AKAKY IRL: What does what mean?

    AKAKY: That ah.

    AKAKY IRL: It doesnt mean anything, dude. Dont be paranoid.

    AKAKY: Okay. [waits] Do you agree with that?

    AKAKY IRL: Agree with what?

    AKAKY: With Michael; that the face to face thing is important.

    AKAKY IRL: No.

    AKAKY: Why not?

    AKAKY IRL: Do you find our face to face sessions important?

    AKAKY: No. Given my druthers, I wouldnt talk to you at all.

    AKAKY IRL: Ditto, I’m sure. In any case, I rest my case.

    AKAKY: I see your point.

    AKAKY IRL: I knew you would, guy.

  • a civilian-mass audience


    what the heck are you drinking???


  • Yes, PDN interview is great..very exciting DAH..I didn’t realize the goal was to have this happen monthly. That would be such a powerful and important addition to the opportunities of the flock :) Praise, praise..

  • how people chime in with no idea really about what I am talking about

    With due respect, davin, it’s not what you are talking about, which may be pretty accurate after all, but how you talk about it, and relate to it. Which speaks more about you than Bucharest.

    The shame is, there seems to be a lot of mood that could be conveyed, apparently, and with a little stoicism, I am sure you could really work around and about that.

    How about the youth? Not everyone has a BMW there. Any little rock scene, smokey clubs? Church congregations? Find a thread, and pull, while possibly making friends in the process.


  • Kathleen, can you tell us more about the video/story of the child being sold? The source especially?

    let’s remember that lately, the human rights issue has become a political issue between countries (especially western and whatever), therefore full of complexities, due to the sovereignty of nations, especially those with a colonial past (that’s a lot!).

    Anyone who tried to “do something about it” learnt just pointing fingers may just be like spitting in the ocean, or even have an adverse effect. It definitely must not be about feeling good about ourselves,as if results did not matter (“oh, we really tried”). I see too much of that around.

    Digressing again, but these are the matters I care about, and when I take a good look at myself, that is me and my generation: with some good, comes too many failures.

    David is right. when sonething just doesn’t work, don’t blame something, look in the mirror. It’s not just about photography.

    PS: Let’s remember Jimmy Carter, Nobel prize, and numerous western leaders gave carte blanche to Ceaucescu, even praising him, to run his country as he wished, all for the sake of keeping a thorn in Moscow’s heel.

  • jekyll: do you wannabe?

    hyde: wannabe what?

    jekyll: you know

    hyde: nope, i already am

    jekyll: am what?

    hyde: just is.

  • if there is, one one side, a mother selling her kid, there is, on the other side, somebody wheatlhy enough buying that kid…

  • that interview in PDN is fabulous!

    Ok, ok, Patricia…..Wow…..Calm down…. :-)))))))))))

  • EVA
    if there is, one one side, a mother selling her kid, there is, on the other side, somebody wheatlhy enough buying that kid…

    I have to do a “bob” (running….) but

    Eva, see, that’s the problem. We just don’t know, so we just heap our PC take on it (I do it too, no different than others). In many counries, children are “sold” to other poor people as well, they just might have the cash that will relieve the selling family, it can be really a low amount. It might turn out an abject fate for the kid, or it might turn out same or better than the original family. It is not even a crime, certainly rarely investigated if so. There might be a difference between it happening in urban centers, or within rural life. Etc….

    Whatever our emotions, we must not automatically think in terms of: just like if our neighbour in France or San Francisco, sold their 8yo kid to pimps.

    It is not about accepting on grounds of cultural particularism,, but about informing ourselves. The reason why I asked further info about the video.

  • CIVI, I am drinking Diet Wild Cherry Pepsi. Why do you ask?

  • David Bacher

    “why would New York corrupt the photographer’s eye?”

    My comment was partly tongue-in-cheek, and partly that Wenjie’s vision, coming from such a non-western perspective will become diluted, or polluted, or watered down. This is perhaps a stupig notion, but was the first thought that popped into my little head when I read of Wenjei’s plan.

    I’m sure the experience can do nothing but en-rich and foster Wenjei’s talent. Still, I have this lurking fear of homoginization. However, the Chinese art scene seems to be one of the hottest on the planet at the moment, likely the influence will flow in both directions.

  • MICHAEL, there’s nothing like watching the people petitioning their government for a redress of grievances to make you feel good about the country and the future of the Constitution, is there?

  • Davin / ALL

    speaking of how to approach the challenges of photographing people in Romania..this from an article about A. Kratochvil..he said, looking at am image of a kid in Romania he photographed..

    “I empathize with people who are being fucked,” he says. “When I photograph them, I am photographing myself.”

    see http://outside.away.com/outside/culture/200909/antonin-kratochvil-1.html

  • Akaky…

    No doubt. No doubt.

    There’s just something about uninformed, drooling half-wits holding violence themed signs, waving “Don’t Tread On Me” flags and screaming inanities about “socialism” that really warms the cockles of my heart. ;^}

  • a civilian-mass audience


    When I read your postings…I am inspired.
    When I read your postings…I “see” double.
    When I read your postings…I BURN my brain cells…
    I wish I can explain further…hmmm….

    maybe the Chinese art scene can influence my narrow horizon.LOVE YOU ALL

    P.S Diet Wild Cherry Pepsi…nowhere to be found in my area :(((
    Anyways, VIVA

  • a civilian-mass audience

    and as Michael writes:

    No doubt,no doubt…oime…

    “If it’s never our fault, we can’t take responsibility for it. If we can’t take responsibility for it, we’ll always be its victim.”
    Richard Bach

  • Michael

    You wondered what I had got from the protest. 5 of those are mine. The ones that say Newscom/Zuma Wire.

    Email me and I can send you a link to the gallery if you wish.

  • Hi All,

    I have sad nostalgic day today. It will be rethoric comment like we had on Road Trips… I apologize before I will start for private thoughts…
    since the beginning of the year photography takes 50-60% of my time. But contradiction is, after almost 9 months I have nothing to show, nothing to boast, nothing I could be satisfy for. Zero essays, a few quite good pictures only. I infected a few people passion of photography, that’s all, thats is good. I learned a few things myself, priceless of course. But after 9 months I have nothing to show as a photographer. I did nothing and what is worst I feel tired. Everything is complicated more and more and I did many things complicated, but that’s life… isn’t it?
    But for me 9 months without results is something what make my heart sad.
    And make me determinated to do something.
    To flirt with my passion again.
    To make some damn good pics.
    But I will do it when I will have an hour free time… in december I suppeose… :)

    Ok, many of you know I am a complainer…

    Let passion be with you.


  • No doubt. No doubt.

    There’s just something about uninformed, drooling half-wits holding violence themed signs, waving “Bush Lied People Died” flags and screaming inanities about “no blood for oil” that really warms the cockles of my heart. ;^}

    Ditto, I’m sure. ;-)

  • a civilian-mass audience


    We count on YOU…may the spirit of photography be with you…
    9 months …shall I say PUSH for the delivery
    or shall I say Focus …

    Marcin…the gallery…focus…You are a damn BURNIAN :)))

  • marcin

    the roadtrips style posts are my favorite :)

    9 months and no new work you care about is a tough pill to swallow, especially considering the time you put in. can you look back and see what was missing? i think the closer you come to being the photographer you want to me, the more you ask of yourself and of your photos. with all my new negatives in hand, I am just praying that the work lives up to my own expectations, and at this point, needs. never have I invested so much of myself into something, and if it doesn’t show in the work, I’ll be a bit at a loss. But I think it is incredibly difficult to be a great photographer..solid, good, yes, but stunning, timeless?? maybe you should consider a workshop or a show your work to a few people whose work you admire, to try to get insight. I always try to turn to others when the time is right for growth.


    Please don’t be hard on yourself. You are a superb photographer with a unique sense of mood to your pictures. I still remember your photo of the bridegroom out in the field. Such a powerful expression of feeling.

    As a friend often reminds me, not every season is harvest season, sometimes we must plant a seed and let it grow hidden in the earth.


  • a civilian-mass audience


    words of wisdom …
    emcd too…

    Goodnight from Greece…Thank YOU BURN :—)))

  • Nailing a couple great images in a lifetime would be great

  • Imants,
    u nailed it..
    I agree..
    Even one photo should be enough

  • Marcin, maybe you need an assignment … very focused, specific, a “product” but still one that you could love … and if you cannot find “the one” in your own mind, then perhaps …

  • Thank you guys for Burnian’s spirit.
    I’ve just seen Alessandra’s Sanguinetti “on the six day” and I will have something to think about before a sleep.
    Tomorrow will be new day.


  • or, maybe just listen to imants and panos :))

  • one, two? how can that be enough to anyone dedicating their life and energy and passion and talent? maybe we see great differently, but i don’t think most timeless knock down drag out artists (picasso, michelango, rauschenberg, klee, hoch, rothko, kandinsky..gonna stay away from the photographers and in the mainstream) have one or two great pieces, i think they have periods and bodies and series of work that sings and is great..

  • Marcin; As David said to me the other day “Go crazy man, get loose and have some fun!” :-)

  • Marcin, if you haven’t shot your 10,000 photos yet, you aren’t even in the game. ;)

  • …………. but Guernica still sits at the apex for Pablo, the Chapel for Mick……etc

  • Imants, well hell yes..occasionally someone gets touched by the divine or an amazing madness that topples ordinary greatness…


    A CONTROVERSY prevailed among the beasts of the field as to which of the animals deserved the most credit for producing the greatest number of whelps at a birth. They rushed clamorously into the presence of the Lioness and demanded of her the settlement of the dispute. “And you,” they said, “how many sons have you at a birth?’ The Lioness laughed at them, and said: “Why! I have only one; but that one is altogether a Lion.”

    The value is in the worth, not in the number.

    –from The Fables of Aesop

  • Davin; Please tell me to pull my head in if I’m trying to teach my grandmother to suck eggs but……..

    A month or so a go I mentioned that I reckoned you needed a bit of a break to clear your head and decide whether Romania is for you, before going back. I seem to remember that you told us you initially went to Romania as a way of breaking into the industry specifically because it was an under-reported piece of the world.

    It set me to thinking whether you were there because you felt it was an important story to you, and you are driven to tell it. If however it’s “just a way of getting noticed in the industry” and you are not passionate about the story maybe it’s not the place for you?

    Maybe you have another story/location/region that is more important to you? Maybe not, I don’t know. But I do think you need a break to recharge your batteries and clear your head. If you are driven to tell Romania’s story then I suppose you have no choice but to return.

    Sometimes a negative situation can turn you in the direction that you were actually meant for. As an example; me getting into the financial crap after my Timor trip forced me into pursuing the youth project. A project I probably wouldn’t have thought about otherwise, but it has been a revelation and I am 100% committed to it. I suppose it has something to do with half full glasses and silver linings etc! :-)

    Anyway, I’ll get off the soap box now because I’m starting to sound like a REALLY bad motivational speaker.


  • Ross..
    Yep, u speak the Truth

  • My New book… An Old book…
    I’ve been there, I didn’t see it.
    I never took a picture of it.

    My new book:

  • Panos; “Yep, u speak the Truth”

    You mean because I was starting to sound like a REALLY bad motivational speaker I presume… :-)

  • Nope..
    I agree.. Not kiddin..
    I don’t know Davin but he seems to get it all wrong..
    Not everyone has a BMW in Romania ( not even in America )..
    And just by moving to Africa or Romania or in any other “exotic”
    place can get him or anyone a position within the iconics..
    He admitted repeatedly he failed and I agree .. It’s obvious.
    7 years in a place and never made a real connection..
    So then DAH should stay in Cuba for 7 years..!!?
    Hmmm… It’s ok to fail..
    One door closes, ten open..
    But still , Davin u gotta change your attitude ..
    coz if not there will be another Romania , after Romania after Romania ..
    And an m8 or any camera can’t help either..
    Tired of this subject..

  • no no..Davin did connect, made tender and connected work, in rural Romania..have you not seen it?

    It’s the city energy that has unfooted him..

    some here” http://blog.sonicsites.de/2009/03/02/project-talk-davin-ellicson-the-maramures/

  • Marcin, don’t worry about failing, succeeding, 9 months, 2 hours, Just keep shooting, and make sure that what you do is not too buried up in the attic, that it’s available somewhere , somehow.

    None of us, including David, have no idea what the next generations will consider photography that deserves sustaining, for the ages. We are way too caught up in the moment to know. And we are a billion pretending!

    It’s a bit like the fable (La Fontaine again!!!) about the farmer plowing his fiels, telling his kins there is a treasure there, and his children wondering when the treasure will be found. Never, because the treasure is in plowing the field, and the fruits from the earth being waht will sustain life for generation. That’s the treasure.

    I Think of photography as breathing. If you do, you won’t stop breathing to think which breath was great or failed, and when.

    Let others do that, let them the confusion! :-)

  • Erica;

    Yes I did see it and I do agree with you, but I’m right out of suggestions. It’s really up to Davin to decide what he wants to do. I certainly don’t want to put words in his mouth.


  • Ross, I agree..

    I was responding to

    “7 years in a place and never made a real connection..

  • EMCD

    thanks for the link to Davins rural photos. Beautiful stuff.

  • Marcin, if you haven’t shot your 10,000 photos yet, you aren’t even in the game. ;)

    Old HCB quote. That’s for film, I gather. What is the number for digital? ;-)

  • Herve…

    Add at least two zeros?

  • Ok Erica ..
    Make sense..
    Thanks for the link


    Sent a reply to your email. Please check it out…


  • Erica;

    And are you happy with the negs you got back? I’m trying to free 2 weeks from the 25th (school holidays here)to shoot solely for the project. I’ve decided I’m gonna be of old fasioned and not look at any of the work I’ve shot until the end of that period. Sort of like waiting for contact sheets to return. I think it’ll be interesting to see how the work evolves by not seeing the previous images… Really looking forward to it actually!

  • Michael – How long have you had it?
    I just found it online and ordered it earlier this month :)
    I opened it up and the front page was signed by someone named Claude Robb to an apparent friend wishing her “success in America and particularly Virginia”
    It has history :)
    I went to Virginia once a long time ago before I was really into photography as a serious shooter.
    I spent only a few hours before I left the state again. just a quick drive through really.. But I was there long enough to learn what rush hour traffic was like on I 95!

  • Davin, sending good vibes your way…

    Came across this article a while back on real estate in Bucharest:

    Never been there, but thought maybe you might shift gears and focus on ex-pats living there, and your common experiences (plus to get you away from thugs :-)

  • Davin; Since you have made a good connection with people from the rural area, are there members of their families that have moved to the city? In most countries there seems to be an urbanisation trend. Maybe documenting that may help give you an inside look into city life. And I’m sure they would be prepared to help you because of your previous connections?

    Cheers man

  • Ross

    that sounds like a great experiment..it’s going to take a bit of will power though! but 2 weeks is doable, for sure.

    my negs – so far I have looked at all of them with the loupe, but they are mighty thin because of the way I am shooting (everything is pushed to 1600) so they are a bit hard to read for detail..and have scanned just 2 rolls today. I’m going to have to step up my pace though to meet my DAH edit deadline next week, like 6 rolls a day? sounds impossible, actually, will do my best. but to answer your question, from what I have scanned, i don’t know, yes / maybe..some look like they were shot by an alias erica, I got pretty playful or loose or whatever it is. the being confined to only a certain number of blocks for a year pushed me to feel and see and differently. so far I have seen a few images that at first i make a move to trash, and then I think that I actually like it..trying to expand my mind a little, because ultimately it is about telling a story collectively and having a certain vibe flow through the book..

  • Ross

    that sounds like a great experiment..it’s going to take a bit of will power though! but 2 weeks is doable, for sure.

    my negs – so far I have looked at all of them with the loupe, but they are mighty thin because of the way I am shooting (everything is pushed to 1600) so they are a bit hard to read for detail..and have scanned just 2 rolls today. I’m going to have to step up my pace though to meet my DAH edit deadline next week, like 6 rolls a day? sounds impossible, actually, will do my best. but to answer your question, from what I have scanned, i don’t know, yes / maybe..some look like they were shot by an alias erica, I got pretty playful or loose or whatever it is. the being confined to only a certain number of blocks for a year pushed me to feel and see and differently. so far I have seen a few images that at first i make a move to trash, and then I think that I actually like it..trying to expand my mind a little, because ultimately it is about telling a story collectively and having a certain vibe flow through the book..

    but i’ll be around here a lot over the next week as I scan scan scan..so i can keep you updated to the highs and lows :)

  • ERICA…

    what is a Road Trips style post?? we can do whatever we want….however, if we go back to RT, we will not be seeing any audience work published…sure you want to do that?? one thing for sure however, is that there was little conflict of any kind on RT probably because no work was ever published…emotions tend to run the gamut when one photographer is shown/featured and another is not….


    yes yes…quantity has value for factory assembly lines….

  • road trips style posting was (or is – because we can still post that way as you say) when we would write more in a personal diaristic style as if only 14 people were reading..guard down and possibly overly revealing at times..which I love..(and has nothing to do with images being shown, wouldn’t change that)

  • Erica, please do not be afraid to publish a work in progress for Burnians, it would be useful for us less developed photographers :-)

    I grow weary when an essay that is clearly labeled “in progress” is met with so much harsh criticism… let us be honest and true, but also respect the that the essay is not finished…

    Sorry, maybe a bit to drink tonight, but I love the Burn vibe. A little bit of tech (not too much), some works in progress, some completed works, a feeling of “home”…

    Sorry, Civi :-) trying to steal your vibe… my fave band from South Carolina (& Seattle)…

  • Herve

    I cannot really tell you much about the video i saw where the mother was trying to sell her child. It was a British production and the man posing as the customer was also British. The show highlighted the previously dreadful conditions for Romanian children abandoned by their mothers in orphanages and hospitals, a situation that is very well known. Prior to 2005 about 10,000 children a year were abandoned and this figure had not changed in 40 years. However, one of the conditions for Romania to join the EU was to clean up this situation and apparently that has been done, at least superficially. But the reality is something else and poverty among children and youth has increased and is expected to continue to increase. The EU essentially does nothing to provide assistance regarding this issue. The situation for Roma children is even worse. Trafficking of children, women and girls is widespread. Corruption and organized crime are well established. I don´t know if current situations have improved because of Romanian reform efforts but if the poverty level is increasing then i´d say it must be very difficult for reform efforts to have the kind of impact that is needed to reverse this situation.


    ¨It proved remarkably simple to buy a baby. You go to the outdoor market in Bucharest, and look for the poorest people, who, inevitably, are laden with young children.You pretend to be a couple desperate to adopt; in the space of a single afternoon we met one man who offered us whichever of his daughter’s 20-or-
    so children we wanted; another offered us his wife’s unborn child for 500 euros (£350).¨

    the latest on trafficking:

    take care,


  • Davin:

    Are you ok? Have things improved any? Please check in and let us know if you´re alright. You´ve been on my mind a great deal today.


  • my wording in the last post came out wrong – i don’t love it when people are overly revealing, i love it when people post about their feelings and challenges and joys of shooting..

    justin..very sweet..but i am so close now to being done – in fact I think I may be done shooting. my quit date was end of october, but after 3 weeks traveling and now lots to do, I may just be done. of course, if after these are scanned I / dah sees some gap, i may keep on through october, but that’s where I need to step away i think

  • kathleen – am off to bed but saw your note to davin – just chatted with him, he seems fine, but is taking a little break

  • Erica, thumbs up to you! Only you will know the project is finished.

    Thanks for the update on Davin. Funny how those I know through internet postings only become part of my personal community, but it is still real…

  • Erica; The willpower thing has me worried too… :-)

  • ERICA…

    ah yes, i see….and there are now definitely more than 14…but, think about this…imagine writing a novel or making a film…it still has to be personal…you have to forget that many will be reading or viewing….you always should pretend the work is just for someone special…most of us really only care about what just a few people in our lives will think about this or that…it is just too hard to comprehend that perhaps millions will see what you do…too abstract a concept….don’t be afraid Erica…you have chosen a form of expression that can reach many…..but, it is still just us….

    i look forward to seeing you next week…and remember another loft apres workshop party is coming…however, i might have to tone it down…talked to a lawyer/ insurance guy who tells me i am personally liable if anyone were to ever get hurt at one of my functions that related to a workshop…like fall down the stairs or off the roof or whatever, or even got hurt after leaving one of my functions if i serve unlimited amounts of alcohol…even for those who are uninvited and you know how it gets at about 3am….hmmm, party over???? bartender who watches over?? any ideas??

    cheers, david

  • David I am sending you a non public link to images of the book it will be up for a couple of days…


    good…i hope it can be this week please…i have some quiet time to really take a look….


    i am pleased you feel that way….trying to create a place here or anywhere that feels like “home” is my general intention in life…pain avoidance even if only for brief periods…..and, of course, you are welcomed into my home at any time….just drive carefully leaving!!!

    cheers, david

  • Thank you, David! I certainly will be careful leaving, getting there is another story…

    On my first (and only) trip to OBX, I decided we should take a drive on the beach before we checked in down in Buxton… On one of the many access roads to the beach, we decided to drive… In my hubris, I did not deflate my tires. I saw Cadillac Escalades on the sand and I was driving a Mitsubishi Montero (most wins of any vehicle in the Dakar rallly). Yep – I got stuck, and a friendly local helped me dig out somewhere north of Avalon :-)

    All joking aside, thank you for Burn. It really does feel like home :-)

  • David;

    When Patricia and I were talking on Skype the other day we both agreed that Burn was the only “photographic community” we were part of…

    It’s be a bugger if you have to have everyone sign a disclaimer (of injury) when they visit you! :-)

  • ROSS…

    i wonder if i am responsible for any of you while online!!

    partys not over….
    just beginning……..
    what happened to personal responsibility?

  • It wouldn’t surprise me…. :-)

    When I worked in the supermarket as a dept manager I had to write up our compliance manuals. Oh what fun (not!) Every, and I mean every hazard had to be identified. An entire shelf-full of manuals (about 10 heavy volumes) was kept above the office desk.

    Well; one day the compliance inspector came to do his inspection and as he wrote up his findings at the desk I casually said “You know what, one day I’ll be working at the desk, the shelf will collapse and I’ll get killed by a compliance manual. Won’t that be ironic?” Let’s just say he was NOT amused……

  • How about an “insurance fund donation” link on Burn? :-)

  • Let’s just say he was NOT amused…… Well my boss hardly did cartwheels either….

  • ROSS…

    you wrote compliance manuals?? no wonder you picked up a camera…..do not let go


    heading west….across the Mississipi and beyond…following my dream….hoping for gold….but, will probably end up in jail given the crowd awaiting….

  • One manual, that was enough. I went part time soon after and then left completely! :-)

    true story,
    I have a friend now that is going to go look for gold…..
    keep dreaming….
    and welcome back to your birth state….
    the golden one,
    that is…..

  • All

    I apologized before write comment and I will do it after… :)
    I had awfull frustrated day yesterday, a day which make me think that I put too much time and energy for things around photography but I should took some bad or good or whatever pictures in this time. Because it’s all about taking pictures, isn’t it?
    If we don’t take some pictures it’s hard to define us as photographers.


    I apologize for road trips behaviors.

  • Link sent David……. off to walk the hound

    I always think my photography is just an extension as to how I see the world…. whether or not I am taking photos, its how I experience the world, thru imagery….. so to answer your question, I don’t think you need to have a camera in hand all the time to be considered a photographer…. For without my camera I always notice a ray of sunlight, or a shadow, or a gesture, or a glance…. ** SO if someone has all the latest gear and is taking 100’s of photos a day, does that make them a photographer?? :)) ***

  • ‘Its not what you look at that matters,
    its what you see….’
    Henry David Thoreau

  • Marcin,
    stop drinking in public and get a shrink..
    also, stop apologizing every 5 seconds…

  • ** SO if someone has all the latest gear and is taking 100’s of photos a day, does that make them a photographer?? :)) ***

    answer= no

  • photographer
    (photo – grapher)= ( write with light )= greek translation…phos=light & grafeas/grapher= writer.
    A photo recorder maybe. but not a photographer

  • I’m so glad everyone’s asleep…
    you know some nights ( when alone )…
    i think of music ( instead of counting sheep )
    i think of music faces,
    like john Lennon and his heroin addiction, or
    lately Phil Spector…
    the creator of the “walls of sound” , the Beatles
    legendary producer… also think of Ramones…
    he is the guy that he added the orchestra on “Across the Universe”
    He killed a wannabe actress (club promoter), playing “russian roulette”…
    20 years in jail..
    without an ipod…
    i wonder how the walls sound in there..
    yeah i know…take an ambien…

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cUaO1P2mfo

    Beatles – The Long and Winding Road ( Phil Spector Orchestration )

  • The wall of inferior sound……..this ipod generation will be the first to listen to music of inferior quality to the previous generation…………. all that compression kills the sound. At least the next generation will have 2+ terabyte ipods and uncompressed downloads

  • Panos; But don’t you wish you had his hair? :-)

    Here’s a clip from our TV news. I know you’re not meant to laugh at other’s predicaments but…. This guy is a bit of a laugh…



  • Thnaks Kathleen.

    Definitely, we must not take the “oh No! My God!” bird’s eye view on such matters. The best work is alwaya done by understsanding all the facts that make such situation possible, as well as ditinguishing between all types of trafficking.

    It seems to me that more and more people are getting involved, in a serious, terrain-knowledgeable and dedicated manner. and that may show in the progress reported from Romania.

  • My pictures suck.
    My pictures are fantastic
    I am a great photographer.
    I cannot take a picture at all.

    The high from a picture lasts about a day.
    The low from missing lasts weeks.

    My best pictures are works of art.
    My best pictures are flukes.
    pure luck.

    The bar is too high.
    aim lower?
    Give up?
    Get back on the horse?
    …I dont have a horse!
    I have a camera.
    But I dont know how to make it work.

    I am a hunter of light.
    Laying silver traps.
    That are nearly always empty.
    or worse; Average.
    not bad.

    My pictures suck.
    My pictures are fantastic
    I am a great photographer.
    I cannot take a picture at all.



  • hey john..
    profound thoughts at 10am?
    can’t be coffee you’re drinking :)

  • David,

    the most difficult job is done, I have done the sequencing on the LFA slide show. Now comes the most difficult part, getting the files from a bunch of different people It will take time to do. Once Ive got it all, I will submit to Burn.

  • RAFAL…

    laughing a bit…this is of course the hard part of editing Burn or any editing job…seeing pictures is one thing, getting pictures to “print” is quite another…the technology is not the problem…getting photographers to actually turn in their material in the correct manner is a full time job…seriously…they always agree, but will they do?? you are about to find out…


    i am going to print that out and put it on my darkroom wall…credit to you of course…

  • DAH. Seeing as how that was born from a fruitless two day stint in the darkroom this weekend, it would be apt.
    Glad its not just me that struggles with this.
    I bet plumbers dont go through this……….and they get paid regularly :)



    yours was an interesting comment, “The wall of inferior sound……..this ipod generation will be the first to listen to music of inferior quality to the previous generation”..agreed…do you not also think the same is true of the mass viewing of photography now? i.e. i would bet that if i took 1000 folks in our audience here into a room, set up a Leitz projector, and showed them Kodachrome transparencies on a silver screen, most would be blown away and think something new and amazing had been invented..technology gives, technology takes away…of course, i have gotten used to seeing pictures on a computer screen and projected in a very inferior way through a digital projector, but any way you look at it, it is not the same as light passing through a transparency…of course, prints on a wall and fine books are the same as ever….Pink Floyd live would be the same as ever…

    i have to focus on a proposal this morning, but will block out time later today to focus on your book….technology gives…

  • JOHN..

    funny, i am having a plumber come over today and do the final hookups in the darkroom….i will have him read your missive and watch his eye movement carefully to see if he has any identification at all…

  • David,

    I always knew this would be the toughest job, but I already got responses from a lot of them, and I just sent them notifications this afternoon. Maybe I can get this done quickly afterall.

  • RAFAL…

    in that case, you have a job at Burn!!! a low paying job, but a job….

  • I am often surprised people actually (occasionally!) want to print my photos! Some of my best photos are ones others pointed out to me. “Hey, what about that one?!” Now it’s my favorite. I still suck at editing.

    Marcin, you are a great photographer. Don’t make me say it twice! ;^}

  • Michael

    Thanks, today and next a few weeks I will do what I do best (in my scale), taking pictures.

  • Funny poem John. That said, it’s not a problem for me, as I never think I am a great photographer, not even if I make what I think is a great shot.

    About the loss of quality with technology, this is similar to my thoughts about progress in general. The world gets better in some ways as it gets worse in others as a result. With all the gains, come significant losses and hardly anyone seems to notice until the quality has long gone. That’s another reason why I like going to India. In India you can tap into some of the good things that we have lost in the modern world that used to be part of life in decades and centuries gone by – the interaction with and ubiquity of animals for example. From that point of view it is good to be enamoured with undeveloped countries because you can see and experience firsthand some of what we’ve lost.

  • Andrea,

    I wouldn’t consider not having to constantly avoid cow shit in the streets a great loss. ;^}

  • DAVID,
    I’ve actually never seen a slideshow from a Leitz projector and Kodachrome, but I can imagine it’s pretty good! Digital tends to be a little rough and edgy..
    Have you tried the new digital Leica projector?


  • David the loss is only temporary as storage catches up. The actual originals of the music have quality both in conception and sound it is just a lot is lost in the compression of files etc by those that download the stuff.
    We have greater access to fantastic work, sure we have to search a bit but with a good network/ networking pals it is not a problem. In the past i had to travel go to libaries, lectures etc and that wasted a heck of a lot of time sitting and waiting.
    Those that lament that the work/ information is worse now than before are way off the mark they either spend too much time looking at shit or worse still have a severe lack of self editing skills in terms of gathering information.
    Technology is in no way leading to mediocrity that has always been around, some of the so called good things are still here but a lot are no longer relevant in many of our lives……. its just doi knia (same same but different to what the past offered)
    Thanks David catcha later ten thirty pm the days work has ended time to go home and count the sheep.


    oh yes, overall things are much better now…the access is worth whatever price we pay in needing to disseminate a bit more judiciously….there is no reason now for anyone not to be totally educated on anything….sometimes i am shocked here on Burn when somebody says “well, i am not really familiar with so and so or such and such” and they just keep giving their opinion anyway, when in the time it took them to write, they could have done a search and be totally familiar… then, give an opinion…

    i will write you during my morning coffee…how many sheep were there??


    yes…Leica provided one of the new ones for my last class…very good…and these digi projectors are getting better all the time…the really big ones that cost about $200,000. are really terrific..the ones that are used in photo fests etc…however, we are still a long way off for an inexpensive consumer projector…

    the digi vs. film bit is almost totally academic for prints and published material…but, projecting to an audience/class is another story…economic digi projectors ($3,000) just cannot even come close compared with film projectors…at least not yet

    thank you…

  • Michael, Indian cows are worth all the shit you might have to endure in my opinion. And we haven’t even started talking about the dogs yet. ;-)

  • Andrea,
    odd to read your comment ‘the interaction with and ubiquity of animals for example’ I have been photographing exactly this topic for a few years on and off, just got back from India last night after three weeks of shooting nothing but animals. The relationship is unique and the more I research the subject I realise it will take many years to scratch the surface. Some of the changes happening in the cities, like expelling the cows from New Delhi, are sad to see but kind of inevitable. It was just nice to read that someone else is captivated by this beautiful aspect of India.

  • Bad plumbing work used to drive my father up the wall. He’d look up at the pipes and say, “What fucking moron did this, for chrissakes?” And then he’d growl at me or my brothers like the lousy layout was our fault.


    Thank you soooo much for the Davin news. My imagination was working overtime with mom-type worry. So glad he´s better and that he´s decided to take a little break.


    LOVED your poem!!!!!!!!!!!!!! as in LOVED! Thank you!! (yes, printing as we speak..clickeddtyclickeddtyclik)


    Several years ago it seems the Romanian kid scandal was all over the news and the net. I was researching the problem yesterday and most of the links were posted prior to Romania joining the EU. However, the latest links, aside from the one that portrayed the rosy glow on UNICEF´s face, are more mmm…how would you say? Insidious. Before admission to the EU the problem was quite open. Women routinely (and historically, i might add) dumped their kids off at orphanages. Their attitude was; if I can´t feed them, let the government do it. The orphanages are now closed though it seems there are still institutions that ¨care¨ for disabled children. But now that the government has pretty much shed the responsibility of unwanted children gangs (including Roma) have taken on the little headache by trafficking women and children to other countries for adoption, prostitution, pedophilia, professional begging and fraud. Internet information is more scarce now because it´s all gone underground. And the news that is available, poverty statistics, the problem of street children, is not very optimistic. It may have been better if the government had kept the orphanages open and permitted more international adoption although many of the parents stayed engaged at some level with the children even though they were in the orphanages. A complex situation and I don´t know very much about it.

    So, anyway, it´s all there online if you´re interested. I would say that since the EU the atmosphere might have changed considerably in Bucharest because of the gangs and trafficking, etc. and perhaps not for the better. Davin might have tapped into this vein by accident and i am so glad he´s pulled back for the time being.

    bye for today..it´s Independence Day here and i have a full day ahead..

    Best to ALL


  • DAH

    you may have never noticed, but I don’t really drink, a glass of prosecco here and there, perhaps..so when at your loft parties I spend a good bit of time quite naturally and joyfully doing things like moving precious photo books away from orphaned beer bottles and encouraging teetering imbibers to converse off the roof ledge and discouraging the consumption of the hard liquor in your cabinet when someone is already gone daddy gone and wiping up slippery spills..but, as you do know I turn into a pumpkin around 3am and therefore I suggest that not only do you keep a lid on the unlimited flow of both guests and alcohol, but that you find a late night watch guard who enjoys the conversation and camaraderie more than the drink. :)


    on pitch!! the monkey mind moves so quickly…and i just scanned a new image that makes me happy..up up up..but I’ll get ready for the ride down as I scan the detritus that is the bulk of the work

  • Kathleen

    the break he mentioned was a burn break and not a shooting break..but I think it’s okay just the same..

  • DAH..

    Kathleen has mom worry..maybe she can be your 3am on shift person!! What do you think, Kathleen? It’s a major requirement for the position!

  • David you may have a new version on now just revamped…….. the old I was thinking while driving caper

  • Erica

    Re: Davin..

    I am glad you guys have been talking. And yes, i can understand his need for a Burn break. As far as a shooting break, well I am sure he knows best. Tell him please that i wish him all the best.

    The 3:00 am shift, hahahaha, on my resume right at the top under experience it says 25 years Manager in charge of worry department. Profits decreased by 95%, expenses up by the same amount. Long distance phone bills and Courier charges for care packages up 200%. Assets include major investment in amateur psychology and photo books. Experience working work 24/7 without OT pay. Being roused at 2am no problem. No drugs, no wimps, no shoes, no excuses. Can provide excellent reference from Civilian Mass Audience on request.

    Do i qualify?

    bye ALL!


  • John Gladdy,

    You nailed it! Great poem.

  • John great poem

    You’ve been reading my mail..er..mind

  • ERICA…

    well, my friend you may have a new job too!! i knew you did not drink….you may not have noticed, i do not drink much either…i do enjoy a bit of the ganja herb socially (shhh), but alcohol to a minimum….thanks for protecting my photo books…much appreciated…actually, amazingly, my personal affects have not suffered from these gatherings….as it turns out , certainly in part because of you….

  • Ok, then..
    I don’t drink either..
    Last year in the kibbutz I was just carrying
    with Diego the beer boxes upstairs..

  • Panos wrote –
    (photo – grapher)= ( write with light )= greek translation…phos=light & grafeas/grapher= writer.
    A photo recorder maybe. but not a photographer

    I do believe the name comes from the early days when a camera obscura was used – basically a room with a tiny hole in the side where an artist would sit and the hole would then project a dim image of what was outside on the wall and the artist could then trace or draw what he / she saw…
    It’s kind of like a pinhole camera, but with “picture gnomes” inside who drew up images before the time when Merlin created magic glass to record the images better….
    Photography is magical :)

  • last year we turned a class room at collage into a camera obscura to show the students what it was like to sit in a camera.. then they could photograph the classroom wall with an upside down view of the street outside.
    great fun, if you’re idea of fun is sitting in a dark room.

  • PANOS…

    this is no time to bring up last year…this is this year….

  • this is THE year… u mean

  • ERICA…

    my real mom is not the least bit worried….she gave up a long time ago!!!

  • aahh scanning is maddening

  • DAVID,
    Yes, the price points are insane. Otherwise it would be a good way to exhibit some work.
    Guess we’ll have to convert the digi files to slides and buy a cheap old Leitz projector then..laughing..


  • Yes, I’m waiting for a decent digital projector too, at an affordable price.

    In the seventies I worked in audio-visual. It’s a shame that the current generation will never see a full blown multi-projector show. I once watched a multi-projector show by the late tech-guru Dean Collins featuring at least 6 Hasselblad projectors. The Hasselblad projectors looked like big Kodak Carousels, but projected 2 1/4″sq. transparencies. Unbelievable quality.

  • a civilian-mass audience

    What’s wrong BURNIANS,

    Suddenly nobody drinks …hmmmm…why is that…???

    OK, then blame Civilian…
    I drink. I drink my red wine and my ouzo…I drink cold beer

    and yes JUSTIN S. please,drink with me tonight…
    and yes PANOS …photo and graphy …φωτογραφια…
    and yes DAVIDB…you turned the classroom upside down…I knew it..whatelse :)))
    and yes JOHNYG …you are the Male BURN MUSE…next to my GRACIE
    hihi…”can’t be coffee you’re drinking :)” hihi
    and yes the unemployment numbers are going down…RAFAL and ERICA
    got a job
    and yes KATIE has the hardest job EVER…the kibbutz mom …hmmm
    Good thing that SOCRATES stays out of that …smart move :)))

    P.S if your name is included in the above list …please proceed to the page 1558
    VIVA projectors

  • civi: i still drink….but i thought i was your male-muse….goodness, are you fickle ;)))….cant greeks and irish poets get along anymore?? ;)))))

    no matter, i’m not the jealous type


  • …does not drink…EVER
    brought this up before on RT

    AKAKY IRL: Why are you doing that?

    AKAKY: Why am I doing what?

    AKAKY IRL: Writing bad free verse.

    AKAKY: I dont know. It seemed the thing to do at the time.

    AKAKY IRL: I see…you’re going to stop doing that, right?

    AKAKY: Yes. It is silly for me to writing that way, isnt it?

    AKAKY IRL: Yes, it is.

    AKAKY: Fun, though.

    AKAKY IRL: I wouldnt know.

  • It’s is a given that I am a bit slap happy after so many continuous hours scanning, but I just saw a profound humor in imaging someone stumbling on our “discussion” for the first time..it would seem to be a bit of a Mad Hatter Tea Party!

    Can I be Alice?
    Who is the drunken mouse in the teapot?

  • To ALL:

    Last Sunday when I was reading the extensive posts of comments, here on “Avalon”, I was wondering… What about a Live Chat Section, here on Burn??? So we can discuss in a forum of connecterd people, in real time, any question or ideas, or projetcs?

    What do you think?

    Abrazos a todos, Patricio

  • pAtrIcIO m,

    How much livelier do you want to get ?
    Isn’t this already near-real-time-all-around-the-globe-burning?
    And who is going to be responsible while we are online on the same line :) ?

  • Alice :)
    “Who is the drunken mouse in the teapot?”
    I’ll take that but who is cleaning up the morning after :)?
    … or we relying on wonders to happen ?

  • Can’t be all bad: The Romanian art/music/cultural website ‘feeder’ highlights my blog after I post about Bucharest’s underground youth scene: http://www.feeder.ro/2009/09/15/nordic-high/

  • Harvey,

    I caught your insightful post re: me. I am not about to leave Romania. . . but I will head to the countryside to continue my 7 year project on Europe’s Last Peasants in a week or so. There they love me! What I am finding is that I have to slightly alter my behavior. I take things quite seriously. If I smile a lot and appear really relaxed, flirt with women and ratchet up my bravado I do better here. In Western Europe, the US, I can just be my normal self and make pictures. Here, I have to assume my alter ego a bit. If you act a bit arrogant, like you own the place things go much better. It’s the Balkans. Men respond to this as do women. I am dialing in my behavior. Today, I managed to escape getting any admonitions. You really gotta smile a lot at people and not be self-conscious. It’s a tightrope. Of course you have to be ultra respectful but you also have to be confident and assert your stance at the same time to get in close. Reportage photography is so much about how one is as a person. You, Alex Webb, Koudelka, Pinkhassov are my Gods. You must must be an excellent human being to get the sort of pictures you have. It’s all about being the best person you can possibly be.

  • Civi, thank you for the invitation! Just finished having beer & Mexican food. I need to pick some more ouzo

    Davin, glad to hear things are taking a turn for the better. The ladies do like self-confidence and smiles, so maybe things will pick up in that department, too, with your new approach. (Boom-chicka, wow, wow!)

  • today = 10 hours, 8 rolls of 35 low res scanned, a handful of keepers..that’ll do pig, that’ll do..

    davin – sounds just right to me minus the arrogant part; i love what you have realized about the smiles and not being self conscious and being respectful and being an excellent human – that’s it!

    haik – alice always cleans, can’t help herself. glad we have a mouse. who else was at the party?

  • David,

    saw one of your comments!!…are coming to Australia???…if so, love to meet up and have lunch with you.


  • DAVIN…

    all sounds fine and it seems like you have made the right decision just to get out of the city…interestingly, when i referred to your pictures appearing as though things were ok, it was the work i saw on your blog of the youth scene, so i am pleased it was picked up by Feeder…there were several very nice photographs in this group…Feeder did not quite get it right however…don’t you have some control over what is published??


    i am not quite sure how that would work given the multiplicity of time zones..i have done several real time chats here on Burn with iconic photographers and this audience, ie.Allard, Nachtwey, McCurry, Gilden, Sanguinetti…there will be more of these….what specifically are you thinking??

  • Erica

    i find scanning very relaxing as long as i can stay awake. Sometimes it’s like, wake up long enough to pick my head up off the keyboard and press preview, then pick it up again press scan, then again and hit save. After several hours one does want to bite the head off a live iguana. You have my sympathy…she says as she hits scan…again….and…..again…and…*yawn*…again.

    Why you shooting film anyway? Are you usually a film shooter? Cool.

    Civilian M. Audience:

    No, no drinking here..well, there was that homemade stuff called chicha the indigenous make on the reserve a week or so ago…woooowoooo..course i only drank that to get along with the locals, right? yeah, right? haha.

    hugz to El Greco…to both Los Grecos i should say..(heya, Panos!)


  • Erica;

    Spent the entire morning re-submitting 5 commissioned articles that were pulled because the magazine has gone from feature pieces (rural stuff) to “equipment orientated” articles. Of course no mention of a kill fee…

    Another mag has picked up one and I think another two; and they pay 10c more per word and more per pic too. They also accepted another 2 queries.

    The editor of this other mag is great to work with. I last worked with him about two years ago and recently queried if he wanted a pic from the NZ Shearing Champs to run. Their standard rate is $50 per image, he emails back “I’m feeling generous I’ll make it $80 for you” You certainly don’t hear that from editors here vey often.

    Mind you there is usually a silver lining if you look hard enough. The other mag hadn’t accepted freelance work before but now seem to be taking everything I throw at them. So, if I hadn’t had the other hassles I probably wouldn’t have tried the new mag either. I suppose the other lesson driven home was how quickly markets/magazines change focus etc.

    Am now in the process of writing a grant proposal and seem to be chasing my tail with it. Writing proposals is an entirely new process for me. It actually makes scanning seem like fun… :-)

    David; And yes, all of these minor hassles are better than writing a compliance manual! :-)

  • DAH,

    I know they didn’t pick/edit the right photos of mine on feeder! It’s an indie cultural site and they just stole them off my blog! But I am happy for the local publicity! Got like 50 hits to my blog so far from it in past few hours.

  • DAH:

    A question: have you ever talked about advertising work on Burn or on Road Trips?

    I am wondering about making previously shot documentary work available for use by an ad agency. It seems like a difficult world to crack with top photojournalists already hooked up with reps like Bill Charles: http://www.billcharles.com/

    Specifically, I am talking about work like this shot and others in this portfolio:


    I can just imagine it being used for something to do with life insurance or something :)

  • Onwards and upwards. Sunlight here and coffee and my Leica is charged and with a new card formatted! Off I go!

    Amazing video of an elephant landing from the sky. I am not kidding, watch!

  • The landing is great. The puff of dust and how he continues trotting as if he is trying to put the breaks on. Gorgeous.

  • Ha! Ha! AndreaC. Isn’t that a sweet video?! I know those little details make it.

  • Patricio, unless you mean a chat room (which I wouldn’t recommend for Burn except for banter and wouldn’t work because it would take the traffic away from the forum) I think what we’ve got already is better for discussing questions. Not sure about projects. I like a forum like this when everyone can come in their own time and catch up with the discussion and then answer at their leisure.

    What’s tricky is that because everyone converses on the same thread, – since there’s only one, which is unusual in a forum, – is finding all the responses. And what’s even trickier is holding them all in your head while you try to respond, because you can’t refer to any of them unless its on the same page.

    But what could be good, although really I am fairly happy with the structure of this forum, is to set it up along more standard lines where in one “room” people can start different threads. A thread for each topic. You find that when you visit, you check all the threads, unless its so busy that you don’t have time for that or not the interest. So that Erica’s scanning and project would likely be one thread; Davins’ romania issues would be another, my question would have been another. Instead of it all being mixed in together. When it works well, it works really well. One way to bugger it up is to have more rooms than your membership justifies.

    Erica said something about straying in here the first time. I remember it. Yes it’s very weird. I don’t know quite what got me past that point as most of the banter wasn’t meaningful to me. Maybe I was just desperate to find a place where you could talk about photography and listen to others talk about it. But I think it was the hope that the essays would or could be discussed further. I think the one comment rule is good out there though for the reasons David mentioned before.

  • Andrea; Burn’s sort of organically evolving conversations are pretty cool though! Unique too I think :-)

  • “The new issue of 100Eyes is online! The site is featuring a tribute to Christian Poveda in the form of a feature story by Nanni Fontana on the Maras Gangs in Honduras. Poveda, a photojournalist and film-maker, was killed in El Salvador recently, allegedly by members of the Maras gang that he had made a documentary about.

    100Eyes also has a new feature called Diversity, which is an on-going section that will allow me to show even more great work, from more photographers, updated weekly. Alixandra Fazzina’s work from the Swat region of Pakistan is now being shown, along with work by Noah Addis, Amnon Gutman, Nathan Sthankiya, Mathieu Grandjean, Scott Lewis, and Aynsley West.

    Andy Levin”

  • davin

    i’ve had similar reportage work picked up for advertising applications and the way it came about for me was simply them seeing the work in print.. picking up a magazine when they needed a photo and choosing from there – getting in touch with the editor for my contact details..
    i guess these days the web is just as likely a place to have work seen.. with many more opportunities to get seen.

    the only issue i had with selling this work was with releases.. of which i have none..
    it was made clear in the license that the images were sold without model release and that the burden of any claim for wrongful use would fall directly on the company who bought the photo and not on me..
    it has worked out and neither myself nor the companies have ever been sued.. although perhaps that is more good luck than forethought.

    regarding photography – when i photograph the work i end up with seems utterly connected with my mood at the time. what i look at is linked to what i feel like looking at, and so it’s a worry to see that you feel arrogance is needed.. as i think there is no better way to alienate people.
    glad you are going with the flow and getting back to the countryside..

  • BTW – i really look forward to seeing a book of your rural work davin..
    do you have any kind of internal time table for when this work will be drawing close to exhibition / book?


  • patricio
    i get what you’re saying.. a room where anyone who’s online can drop in for chats – although that’s what this dialogue section is really – if anyone is online and comments, people see they are online and can interact directly..

    anyone online?
    *crosses screen left to screen right*
    u.s. contingent in bed?
    *crosses screen left to screen right*
    euro contingent at work?
    *crosses screen left to screen right*
    anyone on maternity leave?
    *crosses screen left to screen right*
    how about maturity leave – anyone growing up?
    *crosses screen left to screen right*
    think i’ll have a coffee.. anyone want one?
    *crosses screen left to screen right*
    photography.. eh? photography..
    *crosses screen left to screen right*
    well.. think i’ll take top cat into town today.. mooch about..


  • TUMBLEWEED crosses screen left to screen right..

    thanks for correcting me..
    i really need to re-read my posts before submitting
    *tumbleweed crosses screen left to screen right*


  • All that daylight getting to you big Dave?
    WOLF howls 3 times in the background…

  • David Bowen:

    Thanks for the info. Some of what I say is in jest :) I mean If you knew me personally, I am so the opposite of being arrogant that I couldn’t really be if I tried. Of course for photographing one can’t be arrogant. What I meant was just showing more confidence and less hesitation when photographing. I am also trying to navigate the society here and it does seem as if arrogance gets you places :) If you are arrogant and park your Porsche in the middle of the street the police leave you alone and lots of women flock to you :))) Of course i can’t really change who I am, nor would I want to, but there do seem to be some key things to know about how to successfully navigate life here that I am gradually learning.

  • ahh – LIFE>>>
    and i have to go.. top cat awake and needing lunch

  • SEAN…

    i laughed when you answered Bob about going back, “it depends on if the North Koreans read Burn Magazine”…so, just for fun i Googled your name and North Korea…

    on a Google search, Burn came up #1 in connection with your name and NK….above the Globe&Mail etc…

    so, if the NK officials have a database with your name in it and run cross references, i would suspect they saw the Burn piece before Patricia did….

    cheers, david

  • If you are arrogant and park your Porsche in the middle of the street the police leave you alone and lots of women flock to you……

    ……. not here the boys would have re-birthed the porsche before the lights can ump a umpa at the local nightclub. As for the owner he become a mobile foot pedestrian unit and not even a stray cat in sight

  • The Webbs have a new blog, huh?! http://webbnorriswebb.wordpress.com/

    Also, if you want to do the MFA at SVA, but don’t want to shell out the money, look here for the next 2 years: http://www.aphotostudent.com/

  • Re-birthing means stolen and given a new identity………. they even ship to Romania

  • The future has to be making money doing commercial work to fund long-term personal work. A Romanian guide book is using a picture of mine on their cover. . . for free(!)

  • Imants, that’s what I understood it mean. Over here there is very little crime, one of the safest cities in Europe actually.

  • Looks like they just don’t love cars enough to steal them……… we love to pinch a car here, beats watching footy

  • Imants, you must be kidding. A car means everything here even if you still have to live with your parents to own a nice one :))) the lack of crime is due to the hold over mentality from Communism where breaking the law meant disappearing suddenly.

  • Lovin and stealin go hand in hand with cars……..

  • DAVID:


    the red girl on the stage was also my favorite pic from Sean’s essay…and that’s funny about the edit, cause i thought to myself, ‘damn, that’s a really sophisticated and terrific edit. i wonder if folks are seeing all these internal transitions and motifs?’;))))…i guess, now i know ;)


  • is Chris’ book launch for Capitolio at the Kibbutz??…i know it’s tomorrow, and i sent him a note this morning…i thought the address might be there too…a shame, we’ll miss it….



  • GLENN….

    i am working on your edit now…please get an artists statement and bio to us soonest…you are up next if you will just put down that stubbie and send us what we need….smiling….


    i have looked at your book just twice….i want to go over it several more times…powerful, compelling….things got crazy this morning, so it will be tomorrow before i can respond properly….i have a feeling you are not a Skype person, but if you are, it would be nice to have a face to face conversation about your book…i have more to say, but coming in email to you….

  • Thanks David you will probably see another version by then ……… the whole thing is staying fluid for a while. Skype I will see what I can do …………

  • Just received an interesting link about photobooks. Martin Parr, Gerry Badger and others (unfortunately no DAH) select their favorite photobook of the year. The site’s a little awkward to navigate, but it’s worth a look. http://www.photobook.ph/list09.php

  • GLEN..

    you are going to hate me, but i took the 50 pictures you sent me down to 19….before you totally go crazy, please take a look…i think with these 19 (or we could put one or two back) you will have said everything…all of your pictures were “good”..you are a pro photog…but, i saw some repetition in subject matter etc and just decided you would look your very best if taken down tight…for a book, i would many back in..this is just for a show slide show here on Burn…a representation of Glen Campbell, not the whole GC..i feel that when you get over the shock of such a tight edit, you will see that nothing is “missing” from what you have done…your style and your commitment are intact i think…if there is a picture you just cannot live without , please tell me…

    cheers, david

  • davin – billcharles isn’t really about selling already shot reportage for advertising, more about being commissioned, but his roster is air tight..probably one of the best places for an established documentary / fine art photographer to sell already shot work for ad use is Gallery Stock “licensing images of the world’s premier photographers”..their photographers include Larry Fink, Tim Hetherington, Bill Owens, Henry Horenstein, Alen MacWeeney, Anthony Suau and excitedly/soon, Erica McDonald.

    kathleen – actually, I usually love scanning, it feels like Christmas, all that work and waiting over..but at the moment it is the volume and the time constraints that are bring the overwhelm, and the sore bottom :) yes, I usually shoot film unless for an assignment that wants/needs digi, but I do like digi more and more, now that i shot a job with a Nikon d700, I’m a bit smitten..ooh those super high asas!

    ross – i think it is the ever hopeful nature of the photog that blinds us to the omission of the kill fee in the contract :) but if you have 5 stories to resubmit and some movement, that sounds like more than most..

    scan scan scan

  • David,

    Im going to start collecting files for the slideshow tomorrow. Are the requirements still the same as far as size of file, etc? Most people replied within 24 hours of my notifying them so its close.


    Bill Charles really is one of the best…at various times he has handled most of us at Magnum..Erica, good for you….


    better check with Anton, but i am sure sizing is the same…


    this is always an interesting nomination ….no dah?? yes, but hard to get in if you have not done a book in their time frame..i had better get busy!!!

  • Dave , That was the whole point ! No worries, hack away!

  • just a quick note for those in L.A.

    Lisa Hogben’s work on the people (great photography) will be shown tonight at The Annenberg Space for Photography. Corey Arnold is curating the show and it features great work.

    from Corey’s description:

    “On September 17, 2009 the screens of the Photo Space will display a new array of exciting images which both compliment the mission of Annenberg Foundation, as well as the current exhibition

    “This Slide Show night is inspired by Pictures Of Year, International (POYi), which focuses on photojournalism and documentary photography. The images gathered for this presentation have been culled from the work of 30 photographers, covering current subjects as varied as addiction, Native American socio-economic issues, International Affairs, Migrant Fishing in the Bering Sea, the fervor of Michael Jackson Fans, the cultures of Chinese Turkistan and Ethiopian Jews.”

    You can view Lisa’s contribution at her website, under the story W2Y: at her website:



  • Bill Charles, one of the best, I think so too..I’d love to be among his photogs. And thank you DAH, I’m really looking forward to going thru my archives for gallery stock as soon as I get through this edit for the book.

  • DAH-

    With your emphasis on encouraging photographers to create books, I thought you should have been one of the judges… and let’s hope we do see your next book (or one you’ve nurtured) on their future lists. Better put another pot of coffee on!


    Martin has asked me before, but it is just a matter of time and schedules…are you trying to say i do not have enough going on??

  • I’d never say that David! But you do seem to have the ability to accomplish more than most people.

    In light of the current topic, have you seen any books in the last year that have stood out? I’ve been absorbed by Guy Tillim’s “Avenue Patrice Lumumba.”


    i love Guy Tillim, but have not seen that book…will check it out….thanks

  • About books, there is an interesting series on Simon Robert’s blog about the five days he spent at the printers for his new book ‘We English’. It is certainly no blurb.com effort.

    I found his attention to detail and the professionalism of the printers noteworthy and I thought Simon’s happy snaps were ‘neat’.

    The book is about England and is a road trip…with the wife, the kid and a 4×5.

    Road trips and book printing…that works…

    Actaully its an interesting website covering why he did it, his research, how he funded it (Simon is no johnny come lately to the photo world), travails, etc and done in a straight forward way. The photos are good too.



  • Thanks for that Doug. I’d never heard of him before. You could spend hours on Roberts’ site.


    Just wondering if you looked at the health care protest stuff.

    As if you don’t have enough to do…….

  • PETE…

    i did but think it is now past newsworthy….and just did not see anything that was symbolic enough to use as a single…protest pictures tend to look like protest pictures….sorry


    i need an amber safe light..any particular filter number or anything special to know?? or just amber safe light?? i will be printing on normal fiber based paper….

  • “protest pictures tend to look like protest pictures” well i generally have to agree with that.

    No biggie, I just thought that since health care is such a hot topic, and now there is all this talk about race in the mix it may still be worthwhile.


  • David, I’ve always used the big jumbo bulb safelights.

    The current brand is the Delta Brightlab OC-Amber Jumbo Safelight.

    B&H Photo has them.

  • DAVIN,

    Thanks for “A photo student.” I subscribed…looking forward to joining him on the journey!

  • Dah – always used the unit that housed what I think were regular bulbs inside, it had special reddish glass that made the light safe, and then you could pull a chain to open the gate to let regular light shine…or on the cheap used the “jr.” bulb that just screwed into your reg socket, am almost home and then will look for links

  • David…

    I have more than a couple of different safe lights, including a sodium vapor one… any light source deemed “safe” will do, be it yellow, red or something in between… what matters most is the distance between the light and your paper… my suggestion would be to have more than one safe lights—depending on the size of your darkroom—and to keep them at more than 2 meters away from the paper at all times, from the easel to the traces…

    You will of course need to perform a test for the specific lights you’ll get and the paper you’ll use… let me know if you need more info on that…

  • Right, what Thodoris said..I usually had one unit (and it does take regular incandescent bulbs up to 25W) and then a cheapo or too in a different location.

  • a civilian-mass audience


    I was waiting for you…
    you are the ” sensitive eye ” and the big heart
    and I am sorry if I made negative comments about your long posts …
    I want you to know that it was due to my problem !!!
    ALL my love to Marina and Dima !!! and thanks for the support…I count on you:)))

    KATIE, Street Fighter,
    Erica reminded me of you few months ago…SCAN,SCAN,SCAN
    I miss those lovely cold nights next to the fireplace holding our BURNing laptops :)))
    Blah,blah…love you katieeeeeee

    BURNIANS one I have to say S.S.E.Y.A
    Shoot. Scan. Edit.Your Avalons !!! Can I drink margarita ???

  • Erica,

    Are you still looking for a printer for your B&W work?

  • there’s nothing urgent yet till I finish the book edit and find somewhere to show it..i meant to contact someone who had work here on burn who is a master printer..who was that? what do you have in mind?

  • a civilian-mass audience

    Dearest MR.HARVEY,

    I can find amber light through amber trees…
    (to be perceived as a joke)

    Viva Thodori !!!

  • Erica,

    I think you’re talking about John Delaney.

    I’ve been thinking to start offering printing services to photographers on a “project base.” That is, to print the final edit of a body of work for an exhibition. I know that there are technical issues—mostly my location—but I think they can be solved.

  • Hey Civi…
    I’ll be in Athens for a couple of days during the elections if you want to grab a beer…

  • John Delaney..yes..

    The distance thing is hard, not sure I would be comfortable shipping negs to Greece…

    John Gladdy – I was looking back at Ara’s work and saw your reference to Jindrich Streit – I’d be curious as to your favorite book of his, and also who your fave photogs are in general..

  • I want to throw out a question to the Burnian knowledge base. For several months, I’ve been photographing mixed martial arts fighters in what could best be described as the “minor leagues” of cage fighting. I’ve completed on story of a fighter, and am beginning a second story. I starting to see a potential for a book, even if it’s just from Blurb, of these different fighters’ stories mixed in with general fighting/preparation images. My question to all of you is, do I need to get a release form signed for all the people photographed?

  • A sudden change of life
    It came totally out of the blue. It was Wednesday evening and I was preparing myself some delicious pasta with a tasty tomato and tuna sauce. When I cut the onions my eyes started to get wet and tears were rolling. Noting unusual, but I was surprised because I usually breathe through my mouth when cutting the onions and have no trouble with tears. Well, I thought it must be because the onions were so fresh. But for some strange reason the left eye didn’t stop being wet. And when I ate my pasta I noticed I was a bit clumsy with my mouth – I thought it was because I was so tired.
    The next morning nothing had changed and I decided to see a doctor. When my doctor looked at my face she said that it is half paralysed. She sent me straight to a neurologist who took some of my blood. He explained this facial paralyses to me and said that the cause is often very unclear. There can be many reasons for it, but it often simply comes out of the blue. It will probably take weeks or months until it goes away. The chances are pretty good for the paralyses to vanish. It is called Bell’s palsy. Wikipedia explains it pretty good.
    During these days I often had to think of Patricia and what she must have been through and that gave me confidence and courage. I sent Patricia an email and asked if we could talk on skype since looking at a computer screen is very difficult for my left eye, which is constantly wet and blurred.
    On Saturday evening my time we set a date. It was such a joy to see Patricia’s face on my computer! Patricia is such a great lady with a wonderful unique spirit and a smile that is just overwhelming! So we talked away and it was a good feeling to have this connection between Detroit Michigan and Germany. I guess I looked funny with only one half of my face moving. While talking to Patricia I was sitting in my living room and the picture on my wall had to replace my smile, the image shows a Tibetan monk, who has a big smile on his face.
    Patricia made my day and despite this rather bewildering situation I am in a good and optimistic mood! This handicap won’t knock me down, but it has changed my life. Things I took for granted are gone or much more difficult now. Luckily I can still take pictures and eat and talk, well with a bit of trouble, but it works. I need napkins now! Looking at a monitor is demanding so I have to think about it carefully how I spend my time and what I read and what not. As I write this on word I look at a magnification of 200 %. So I can only glance over the comments at burn. This I regret very much, but I hope I can make a bit of a contribution nevertheless. So talking is much easier and if anyone sees me online on skype, please feel free to give me a call at reimar498
    Luckily all my friends are very supportive and at work my colleagues are very helpful and also all the editors I am currently working with are very understanding, so that helps a lot as well. I want to continue my work. The main problem will be to keep my eye protected from wind. An old pair of sunglasses made for snowboarding provides the ideal protection. Okay, the original orange glasses make me look rather like a pop star and so I have to replace them with white glass. Can’t wait to get them.
    Yesterday I got my blood result: everything was good except for a lack of vitamin B 12. Now I eat vitamin B 12 pills in a high dose and pills with ginkgo leaf extracts. Hope this will do any good. The scariest part came this morning. My skull was screened in an MRI. Boy, that thing makes the noise of a techno discotheque with a very bad dj. Earplugs didn’t help and it was shaking me pretty good, but there are things that are much, much worse. So that test didn’t show anything unusual and I was very relieved to hear everything is okay. It was strange to see my brain and skull on the monitor screen. Not my kind of imagery though.
    This experience with this sudden paralysis showed me how fugitive life can be. Many people have had a similar experience when their life turned around within an instance. So I am thinking about photographing people who had to deal with heavy changes in their life and ask how they handled it and how they managed the new situation. So this might result into a little photo project. I can’t wait to get going.
    Burnians, enjoy life and please smile for me!

  • reimar..
    good grief.. fingers crossed.. terrible shock, no doubt.

  • Reimar !

    Will send prayers. Consider acupuncture.. You will recover soon..

  • Reimar,

    Hope you have a quick and full recovery.

  • I have a friend who had Bell’s Palsy, and it got better in a couple of months. Took several months before all the symptoms went away, but it never came back. Hang in there!

  • Reimar,

    I wish you a fast recovery. Keep your spirit high.

    As for reading posts on Burn (or any other site) if you’re using Firefox on a PC you can magnify the text of a webpage by pressing “Ctrl” and “+”

  • Reimar, I hope you will be better soon and it’s amazing how positive you sound. It’s great that you want to take this experience into your work. I saw a wonderful story just recently on tele about a guy who had a brain tumour. Luckily it turned out to be benign but he had to go through major brain surgery before they knew it. And during the surgery, we could see that the family were prepared for the worst. He was a young guy and had everything to live for. His joy was throwing paper planes. He is the Australian Champion and won a trip to Paris to compete in the international competition. It was a wonderful story. He competed throughout his brain tumour episode and of course, he now has an even greater passion for life than he did before which I must say already seemed pretty high.

  • I know Bill Charles is air tight just as Magnum is :). So, for someone like me, what I am wondering is if it is possible to have success contacting individual ad agencies on one’s own?! It doesn’t really seem like it. I mean it seems that in order to get ad work you need a rep and you only get a rep if you are quite established already, say, doing editorial work. I just feel I have seen lots of reportage used in ads or the reportage style and so why couldn’t my pictures be scooped up in ads?! This is what I am really interested in, cracking the corporate/commercial world to fund personal work. I just see a lot of what I think is mediocre photography used in ads. What are these guys doing that I am not to get recognized?! Is it an inner circle? How do you gain the respect of an ad agency when you might have good work but are not well known like some other top photographer? I mean it seems not to only be about the quality of one’s work, but connection within the advertising/commercial world.

  • The master printer was the guy who shot the mongolian story. The one with lots of portraits and falcons.

  • Erica,

    I know… actually one of the reasons I do my own processing and printing—even though it is so time consuming—is to avoid getting *infuriated* by fingerprints and scratches on my negatives by the local “pro labs” (also their prices…) But shipping your precious negatives across the sea is an issue easier to be fixed (e.g. high quality duplicates) than the problem of communicating your vision long distance… Anyhow, all problems have solutions… By the way, I’m in Cyprus—not that it makes any difference :))

  • Who knew. I posted some pictures of the youth scene here in Bucharest on my blog and they were picked up by a Romanian indie cultural website and I’ve already gotten over 1100 hits to my blog today. Other Romanian websites then picked them up well with one music site saying that my pictures prove that Bucharest “in the last year has finally become a normal city, a European capital”. Romania always has such a negative reputation in the West (sometimes rightly so as I my previous posts from a few days illustrate) and Romanians are hyper aware of this and the music site seemed sort of happy to see that an American photographer had come here and shown with photographic evidence that Romania is transforming itself.

  • Reimar

    What a terrible shock!! I am glad the prognosis is good and that you are doing everything you can to get better. My son had Bell´s Palsy at age 12 when Lyme disease took over his brain (literally)..he recovered 100% (as far as we can tell) but i think i know how strange this is for you, if only second hand. What a wonderful conversationalist Patrica must be..you sound positively beaming right now, and like any photographer worth his/her salt, already seeing a project in the experience! Good luck to you!!!!!!!!!


  • Devin

    How quickly you have recovered your equilibrium..and then some.


  • Reimar

    as Erica said, acupuncture and/or physical therapy have been known to work wonders!


  • Davin

    oops..sorry for misspelling your name!


  • On a different note, I just remembered that Hiroshi Watanabe’s essay about North Korea was awarded first place in last year’s project competition by Center. You can see it here:


  • Reimar I got Bell’s Palsy in my twenties played havoc in the self esteem department for a while. I only recovered 95%, yea the cold wind and aircon was a real shit………… become a left eye photographer for a while now I use both. Take care

    good for you to always see the light….
    thoughts and prayers…
    to you..
    for you….
    Its a beautiful thing when Burn is more than photos and photographers….
    I am inspired by Patricia, and I can only imagine how inspiring she must have been via skype..

  • To DAH (and obviously ALL):

    About the chat section: Uhmmm, Is true, I’ve never thought about the different fuses of time around the globe… My chat room idea was to discuss mainly about projects in real time, i.e. Reimar just posted an idea few lines above… so that the community that is online can give him a little advice while he is online too, while his idea is Burnin’….
    The fact is: Every answer will be lost, because nobody will read the chat history… so if you are not on line, you’re out of the “game”. But seeing the speed of this forum, difference between chat and comments is nearly the same.
    Maybe I have to download and connect to SKYPE.

    I’ve submit an essay this morning…

    Abrazo a todos, Patricio

    RAMON: Que es eso de Burn en Espagnol. I’m completely IN and follow you amigo. I’m from Buenos Aires, Argentina.

  • Reimar.

    I had Bell’s Palsy at age 40… right side of my face and neck paralyzed down to my shoulder, couldn’t close my eyelid, couldn’t close my mouth on the right side, had trouble eating and drinking liquids, swallowing was difficult. I had to take time off from work. I had no medical insurance at the time and could not have possibly afforded the kind of Western medical examinations you have already been through. In any case, I don’t think Western medicine can do much for this particular malady. I visited an acquaintance who was trained in acupressure massage, body manipulation, and Oriental medicine… he had studied with Tibetan monks in Nepal. He manipulated my back, gave me some fairly vigorous acupressure treatment, and had me do moderate exercise afterwards. After two such visits and about two weeks, most of the symptoms had cleared up, and by about six weeks later I was as good as new. Perhaps the condition would have cleared up on its own without such treatment, I don’t know, but I have heard many stories of cases of Bell’s Palsy that were never really cured. It sounds like your case is fairly mild… in any event, you have my sympathies, and I wish you the best of towards a speedy recovery. I was lucky and I hope you will be too.

  • Kathleen,

    It’s best not to post when having a bad day I have found :) Learned my lesson. As long as I think less and don’t internalize so much, things go better.

  • For Reimar:


    So sorry to hear about your current predicament. You will likely recover in time. And I’ll just echo Jim… Hang in there.

  • My dear Burnians,
    thank you so much for the good wishes and kind words! That means a lot to me!
    A sorrow shared is a sorrow halved.
    Thodoris, I will check this firefox magnification out. Great idea!
    Erica and Kathleen, so far I never tried accupuncture, but I feel ready for it now and I certainly will give it a try.
    Imants and Sydney, thank you for sharing your story. Yes, I guess I am still lucky. And I also get the feeling that medicine hardly works here.
    I hope I can share a lighter story with you next time.
    It is already late in Europe and I have to say good night!
    Burnians, you are great!
    More soon!

  • Reimar;

    My thoughts and best wishes go out to you. I’m sure it must help knowing that best wishes of the entire global Burn community are heading your way…


    I hope that post of mine didn’t come across as a whinge, because it wasn’t meant to. Just a ramble about one door closing and another opening, thats all… :-)


    I’m really glad things are looking up for you!

  • Davin

    So brain-dead is preferable to thinking and feeling? mmm..ok, *taking notes*…

    haha, i am just teasing you..i know what you mean. Sometimes it all gets to be too-too-tooo much..but in all fairness to you, i think you went through a couple of super bad days that would have put anybody into a funk. You were entitled! Glad you´re back, though..


    Yikes, i never knew sudden cases of Bell´s Palsy were so common! I won´t be so quick to say that someone´s smiling out of one side of his face anymore. I wouldn´t wish this on anyone. I hope Reimar can take advantage of some of Sidney´s suggestions. They sound really worthwhile. I know a pharmacist who recovered from Bell´s Palsy with physical therapy and i also know a Veterinarian who specializes in acupuncture and is successful using it to treat paralysis in animals. Get well soon, Reimar!


  • Reimar

    And yes, i can imagine that taking really good care of yourself in the meantime is also a help. So GO TO BED!!!!



  • DAVID. YOU NEED THE 902 -NINE. ZERO. TWO. AMBER SAFELIGHT/ FILTER. That is an ilford number i think but its a standard code.

    emcd. I love all streits work. I tend not to remember that many names but i get a lot of my inspiration from really old photography year books from the fifties/sixties. I do however love the work of Don mcullen. Saul Leiter (his color work more so than his BW) Pennie Smith. Paolo roversi. avedon, of course.and Cecil beaton.

  • John;

    I really love Bert Hardy’s work. His work always shows a lot of humanity. I still don’t think his work gets the recognition it deserves I would love to have this on my wall…


  • john – thanks, will look up those missing from my photo knowledge..

    ross- – not at all! will look up your bert too.

    all – am listening to a very odd movie in the background while i scan to keep me awake, hard times, i think it is called, but someone said a funny thing in all seriousness (it’s a bbc period flic)

    “I never should have had a family; then they would have appreciated me.”

  • reimar–

    i had bell’s palsy some years ago. the right side of my face was paralyzed and, like sidney, i could not close my eyelid. for this i wore an eyepatch and said, “Arrrr” a lot. heh.
    i was told the only treatment was to let time pass so i didn’t do a thing and after a month or so
    all was back to normal.
    it’s good when things go awry like that.
    we take so much for granted.
    you certainly have the right attitude about it all.
    best of luck to you.

  • DAVID,

    I have an idea. Its called SUNBURN.
    At this stage it involves You, Glenn, Lisa, ond others,
    a road trip, maybe the desert, a small amount of beer(because none of us drink very much, but who would have noticed) good times and sun….SUNBURN
    Just an idea…it just may work



    Woodstock Graphic Studio
    Richard Edelman

    I can vouch for him personally..I have some of his prints hanging on my wall. He prints for galleries in NYC…he´s a perfectionist..you cannot go wrong with him and he´s closer than Greece. Please tell him I sent you if you call him..


  • Civilian M. Audience

    Well, nothing´s changed..it´s still scan-scan-scan. It´s just what you do when you shoot film..you treat your negative carrier better than your kids, the mechanical hum of the scanner is better than your ipod and the Nikon scanning software sucks big time.

    i love you too, my Civilian..yep..love you too…who´s more attentive? who´s less judgemental? who reads EVERYTHING and takes notes just to reassure us we´re not talking to ourselves? Who´s fun, funny and so gently ever-present?



  • Reimar,

    so im counting about 6 days? few studies have shown relevance of short term high dose steroids (ones that dont bulk you up – sorry) to help. discretion used by your physician of course. key is to use acupuncture A LOT and soon. so set it up quickly. time is of the essence.

  • katie,

    i found a dynamatic voightlander and is soon to have a yashica mat – really old in my hands. i have decided (hmmm) to see how film can satisfy the ‘effect’ im looking for to pair up pictures with my poetry… ambitious project but have to.. have to be done. what scanner do you use or does it matter?

  • Gracie

    I just looked up the Dynamatic..it´s a very cute camera..i saw that it´s shutter priority, right? hmm…Which Yashicamat? i use a Yashicamat 124G both on the street and for nature. I LOVE that camera!! But loading it in a hurry is, well, you simply can´t.

    Scanning..well, you can use flat bed. They´re a lot cheaper than a dedicated negative scanner. But if you want to print then i would go straight to a dedicated negative scanner. If you´re a millionaire get an Imacon. if not then my personal choice is Nikon. i had a Nikon 5000 and then decided to try shooting medium format as well as 35mm and had to buy the Nikon 9000 because it scans all sizes of negatives whereas the 5000 only scans 35mm. I love the 9000. It scans two strips of 35mm film so that´s a nice convenience. However, shooting and scanning MF ups the level of expense considerably. First is the film. Very difficult to get where i am. Have to bring from the US. Then the cost of processing is also high if you even can find a lab to do it. Luckily i have one close by. Scanning goes better (sharper and you avoid Newton rings) if the negs are placed in a glass carrier but they cost several hundred dollars extra on top of the scanner price. I have two glass carriers to the tune of about $750 total. Some people swear by wet scanning large negs. That´s done by putting some kind of liquid on the glass first. Or something. I never did it. I find scanning MF negs works just fine if you do it dry, but ALWAYS in a glass negative carrier. Ok, then after that, a MF negative is a helluva large file and you have to have major space available on your computer or on an external drive. Also a really kickass computer because is important because it takes a lot of computing muscle to edit a negative that´s 4x larger than normal.

    Are you sure you want to move to MF? If you´re just starting with film, maybe go with 35mm for awhile to see how you like it. MF is an expensive venture. It wouldn´t seem that way because the cameras are pretty inexpensive now. I have two whole Bronica kits along with the Yashicamat. But if you want to digitalize these negatives, it´s not for the broke or fainthearted. That said, a MF negative is a beautiful thing to behold and i consider it worth all the time, trouble and money it took to get me equipped to handle this format.

    And to ALL, i am not an equipment geek so if any of you have better information and advice for Gracie, please feel free to give it..Once i got everything i needed to pricess my negs i stopped staying on top of scanning technology. I´m very happy with what i have (except that Nikon scanner software sucks on new Mac operating systems.).

    Hope this helps, Gracie..starting in film is an uphill learning process if you first learned photography using digital technology. But i personally love it so much now that i wouldn´t trade. I still have a D200 but it´s not used much´these days. No reason, just am comfortable with my film cameras and work process.

    If you want to write me, Gracie, i´m at dyathink.1124@mail.com


  • Reimar…

    Yes, use acupuncture soon, very quickly and a lot, so that you can get that placebo effect working as soon as possible! ;^}

  • REIMAR..
    hang on tight..
    You’ll be fine..
    It also happened to a friend of mine..
    Recovered fully..
    Keep it up

  • Hi Panos

    so good to see your name..i´m off..tired..wired..just wanted to say howdy…


  • @katie, oh shit!!

    @michael, acupuncture has been used for thousands of years and been used on animals, try explaining placebo effect to them.

    @reimar, if western medicine has given up, there’s the other side of the world that might help. just try.

    not sure you are reading anymore but:
    my father had Bell’s a couple of years ago and recovered after awhile. The cause:

    LYME DISEASE a tick-borne illness, not sure you have that in Germany yet, as it started in Lyme, Connecticut US of A

    You may want to look into that…


  • Hi David,

    Sorry this is a bit off topic here but I could not figure out a way to send you a short personal message :)

    Just wanted to let you know that based on Rafal’s (la familia abrazada) advice I have submitted my essay in which you had expressed some interest (thanks!) . I am sure you are swamped with submissions; just wanted to let you know that the essay was submitted about two weeks ago – hopefully I was successful in submitting the essay and have not missed some crucial step. If it is not there then I can submit it again.

    Take care!



    I’ve been off-computer since the morning so missed your post, and now you are asleep and dreaming of smiling on both sides of your face ;=)

    You, my friend, are the inspiration to me. Your positive outlook on life is a joy to behold. No temporary facial paralysis can dampen your spirit.

    I concur with the community’s advice to try acupuncture. I’ve had great success with it myself. Anything that can get the chi flowing again is just the thing.

    Isn’t it wonderful to know you have such a big-hearted community surrounding you with well wishes? We Burnians sure are lucky.

    Sending warm hugs & much love


  • Oh for christs sake. Chi? Really?

    I wish you all the best to a speedy recovery! I know a beautiful girl from high school (secondary school) that had Bell’s palsy occassionally, she now has acting gigs :-)

    Yes! Sunburn – I got images of Oliver Stone’s “The Doors”. Perhaps attendees could travel to White Sands and do some peyote for enlightenment :-0 Did you include Panos?

    From mispent time on tech forums… sometimes the Epson store has good deals on the V500 scanner refurbs. Supposed to be good for MF and “okay” for 35mm. Been thinking about getting one for Christmas ($134 USD right now):

    Also, some swear by the Better Scanning anti-Newton glass holders for the V500. I’ve never tried them, but the cost isn’t too bad at $79.95 USD + shipping:

  • Yes, dear Michael, really. But you, my friend, are not the one with half his face paralyzed so you don’t really need to listen to this conversation if you don’t want. I did address my comment to Reimar after all. But thanks for weighing in with your opinion. It’s good to hear all sides of an issue, don’t you think? Of course, Reimar will make up his own mind. It is his face after all.


  • “Oh for christs sake. Chi? Really?”


  • Patricia,

    As someone who is sympathetic to the medical difficulties of any human being, especially someone who I’ve had a minor (extremely minor, admittedly) connection with, I feel no compunction to state what is clearly rational and what is not.

    Yes, of course Reimar will make up his own mind. And yes it is good to get both sides of the story when there is a both sides. But acupuncture and “chi” is like astrology and Intelligent Design…. there are/is no “both sides.” The “debate” is manufactured. It’s like saying we should hear both sides of the issue regarding the shape of the Earth… spherical or flat? Who’s to say?

    One thing I agree with, you did address your comment to Reimar and I butted in. Apologies. But then, this is an open forum so I’m only really a little sorry. ;^}

  • Man I would love to sit, drink some wine and see how this turns out, but I have an early day tomorrow and I am wiped out.

    Michael – send me the condensed version later? (grin)

  • Pete… I should probably bail as well. Being the resident skeptic usually garners one very few friends. ;^}

    Night all.

  • Michael, I will not try to change your mind about Chinese traditional medicine. It appears that your mind is already quite closed to such treatment options. But I trust Reimar is more open to non-Western ways of responding to health crises. May he find methods and practitioners that will prove beneficial to him.


  • Matthew;

    Any spare bar stools for a neighbour from over the ditch? A bit of Aussie sun would do wonders for the sun starved NZ complexion…. :-)

    Mind you, when I lived in Perth and drank Tooheys I used to get the “You gotta drink Vay-Bay maaaayte” -translation for non-Antipodeans “VB mate” :-) I think they thought I was a bit of a blouse….. :-))

    My Larry Towell book just arrived in the post today so am as happy as a pig in the proverbial…..


  • The thing that shit me was the over sympathy part …… I was teaching at the time and I remember being asked what happened to my face a few days after the big drop, told the usual facts..reaction the usual Oh dear etc.

    Finally some students asked once too many so I told them that my face was doing what they are doing… What that? My answer “Fuckin nothing just like you lot” ………. yep we got on with the art part of life from then on.

    “Girl’s blouse” Ross……

  • DAVIN…

    i am not an advertising photographer, but i do usually do a couple of good ad campaigns a year…finances all of the other things i do that are not income producing, which is mostly what i do!!

    the ad business is definitely fickle by any standards…..but, i can say this…the ad business has much less to do with being “well known” than any other aspect of professional photography…very few ads are shot by the so called well known photographers…perhaps your portfolio might come to the top just a bit quicker, but securing the actual shoot depends mostly on whether the art director (who has chosen you) can convince the client that you can do the job…the particular job at hand….and clients could care less about how well known you may be..after all the photographer’s name is rarely on the ad and so being “known” only helps in the trade ads, such as a camera company ad….does not do one bit of good for a Coca Cola shoot….

    i have had some terrific campaigns, but i have lost some terrific campaigns as well…why?? mostly because the clients just cannot imagine how a location oriented photographer, no matter how good his/her track record can produce on demand…producing on demand is of course how all professional photography is based, but even more so on ads…and it is true, a location photographer (non studio photography) is dependent on weather, light, etc and cannot control these things the way a studio shooter can…so clients , even at the last minute, will back away from non -studio shooters because when it comes to signing a purchase order on a budget of say 200k, they do not want to take any chances and will go for the “safe” shot every time…you are right, most ads just do not look as though so much went into them…

    i usually do not give advice, only suggestions..but i would at least now give some gentle advice now..do not even think about TRYING to be an ad shooter..if it comes your way , take it…but the quickest way to burn out as a photographer is to go chasing advertising shoots…you will go crazy trying to imagine what an agency wants….my ad shoots have always originated because the art director liked one of my personal books….so i do NOT ever ever try to create a portfolio for advertising…if you go to http://www.magnumad.com and look at some of my ad work (click on “tearsheets”), you will see that my ad work is a spin off of my personal work..no, not exactly the same and i do not hold this work high , but you can probably see that i do control the shoot and use at least some of my style even in advertising…by the way, i keep copyright too…do not sell out even on commercial work….

    do your thing Davin…you should really stop worrying in general about what you have going for you and what you have going against you….you do not want to end up ten years from now, as so many do, blaming circumstances for your fate…you are the circumstances…you are healthy…you can move…you can see….that is enough..take those things and make a statement…nobody who is “well known” ever had any more than those basic elements to begin, nor any more than those elements to continue…instead of imagining that there is something besides the work involved in “success”, imagine please the opposite…most “well known” (your term) photographers probably became “well known” because their percentages of good work rose above the norm on a regular basis…pretty simple…this vision of a “club” as somehow the “reason” should be viewed as perhaps the “result”… is so so so wrong to blame the system or the “grass is greener” approach, but this keeps a lot of photographers down down down who focus on the half empty glass…the error of all errors….

    cheers, david

  • Imants; I was being PC… :-)

  • David; I remember reading in Bill Allard’s “The Photographic Essay” about an AD telling him how he should shoot, and he retorted something like “Why did you hire me then” and not getting asked back next time…:-)

  • Howdy Kathleen…
    I’m always here..
    I’m just giving more space to our
    newer members here and also..
    I’m preparing some new “attitudes”
    and some “surprises” for the new year..
    Lots lots and lots of good changes coming up..
    Stay tuned..
    I will announce soon…:)

  • ROSS…

    yes, that is a well known story about Bill…but, i do not know the art director’s version of what happened…you know Bill, he can fire his gun in the air sometimes….i have found art directors to be totally deferential…they are paying a lot and they do hire you for your expertise/vision and i just have not had any negative experiences with art directors…

  • David; Yes, I though that may have been the toned down version… :-)

  • Ross,

    Sure you can come along Mate,
    As long as you stop being PC, dont drink Tooheys or VB
    and bring ya new book…

  • Matthew; Actually I hardly touch the stuff, but it’s fun winding up the cousins from over the ditch. all in good fun of course!! :-)


    i love SUNBURN…yea, let’s do it….can we pass by Winton?? i think some of my old buddies are still sitting at the Red Star bar and would probably only say “oh Dive, you been hangin round the pub in New York again?”

  • Ross,

    No worries mate, I’m not wound up.
    I just dont like hearing stories about good people
    drinking bad beer !

  • Reimar – Prepare your self…

    Bell’s Palsy is an interesting product of the Chicken Pox virus… Chicken Pox is one of the Herpes viruses, therefore it stays with you for life embedded in your nerve cells.
    My Mom has it currently as well. Although she came down with it over a year ago. (July 2008)
    And a classic story – One moment things are fine and then within hours your face looks freakish.
    It usually gets worse over the next day or so as the nerves slowly stop working.

    In the worst case scenario – it can happen to both sides and even worse – it may never recover fully – plus it may return later!

    Your eye will be dry and won’t close at night. You will need eye salve to keep your eye moist. don’t use an eye patch as you look about or while dreaming, in REM, your eye will rub on the patch and you won’t feel it but it will cause damage… food will taste awful or not at all, drinking through a straw is about the best you’ll accomplish in the first months…

    What has helped my mom the most is eating baby foods with DHA – DHA is the animal derived form of Omega 3, LHA is the plant derived form. So if you’re not into eating Fish for fear of mercury poisoning or just hate it, I think you better start eating plenty of Flax seed. Flax has some of the highest Omega 3’s of any plant. Ground Flax seed is best as your body can’t digest the whole seed. but buying pre-ground Flax isn’t the greatest idea as the vitamin quickly dissipates, but if you do, refrigerate the unused portion and keep it sealed away from light. otherwise using a blender or some types of coffee grinders will do nicely to grind up the little seeds. They kind of taste like a nutty banana not that it will make much difference to you right now…

    Also get plenty of Omega 6 and 12 to balance the Omega 3’s. They all work together for a common goal. less of one means they all work less. Omega 6 and 12’s are found in pumpkin seeds, almonds and walnuts. The Omegas help your body rebuild nerve cells in particular. And since your facial nerve isn’t technically dead, you should be ok… What happened is the nerve membrane – the protective outer “skin” if you will, of the nerve cell has died off.. .meaning that the receptors can no longer receive, and the transmitters won’t transmit either.. but the nerve is alive.

    also what helps is getting enough B vitamins. I briefly looked over your post, so i’m not really sure where you’re from. But if you have access to the so called energy drinks available in the US, some such as Monster, and Rockstar are full of the B vitamins. tons of them.. and then you can even buy some 5 or 6 hour energy “shots” that have up to 8333% of your daily value of B12 and then the others are around 100%… You might check with the Dr though on this… this amount could be dangerous over time.. Plus that much caffeine can’t be too good for you either. But possibly a better source of B vitamins is Açai berry juice. It’s a Brazilian berry that’s called the Amazon superfruit. It has the highest antioxidants of any fruit. And is quite pricey ($15-20+ USD for about a quart… )

    My mom’s has gone away for the most part – although later at night when she’s tired you can still see the effect on her lips. What she thought was nice was all of her wrinkles went away! Only on that side though.. So it was like when a woman walks through a mall and a sales person pulls her in to sell her make over products and only gives her a makeover on one half of her face. The wrinkles are now back and she’s looking normal for the most part. She still slurs her words a bit.

    When hers first set in, She commented that her lips felt tingly and numb like when the dentist gives you a shot – WHILE my brother was trying to tell her he had ran off and eloped. Oh the look on her face! I took a photo of the moment… We discovered the horror on her face was really the Bells Palsy setting in. (My brother was really scared that she was upset at him.)

    Careful not to eat really chewy foods as you might bight into more than you mean to… you won’t feel it if you bite your face or tongue. you’ll probably notice you can’t smell very much and later, when everything seems to be working for the most part you may have a bad case of tinnitus in the affected ear, and the feeling of fluid moving around… along with possibly dizziness.

    I really wish the best for you…
    Oh one more note – Stress – Stress will case it to relapse and is possibly what set it off in the first place. Stress is the number one factor most people affected feel initiates the onset.

    Take it easy for a while. maybe go on a nice year long hiatus!
    And I hope you have a speedy recovery (a year is average…)


    i am reading backwards and just found out about your health issue….your good attitude will help…i hope it makes you feel just a bit better anyway, that you have folks here who care…

  • DAVID,

    Just googled Winton
    “The hub of history, where legends are nestled in an awesome landscape”

    Sound good to me. I remember your images from there.
    I think this needs some work shopping.

    It just might work…

  • Mathew, Sunburn, I love it. Can I come? :-)

  • I’ve been thinking about photographic gifts, or happy accidents.

    This past Sunday Martha and I went to visit a friend in hospital with a brand new one day old baby. I brought a camera to make photographs, thinking to make a soft, sentimental, mom with new baby portrait. What I came away with instead was a photo that showed me a very transformed Hannah, a very adult Hanna,a side of her I’ve never seen.


    In many ways, I think happy accidents are part of many good photographs. I made reference to them when commenting on Wenjie’s essay. Accidents are probably not a good description of what is going on, I prefer to think of them as gifts that present themselves. It is up to us to recognise them as gifts, and be ready to accept them. This is not to say that making good photographs is just making a huge number of photographs and harvesting the “happy accidents”, a photographic equivalent to the “infinite number of monkeys on and infinite number of type-writers”.

  • Ross, I think they thought I was a bit of a blouse…..
    Imants, My answer “Fuckin nothing just like you lot”

    You guys made me laugh.

    Michael, you are not the only skeptic here. It’s a shame when alternative medicines take the credit for things that would heal with only the help of time and general maintenance. But there’s nothing wrong with a little pampering when you are not feeling good. http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Bell's_palsy

    Justin, do you really think all that is what Reimar needs to hear? Your poor mum might be one of the 10% who don’t make a total recovery.

  • Lovely picture Gordon. It’s the pose though, that i particularly like and the sheen on the sheets.

  • Matthew – I can’t come along if we pass through Queensland , I grew up in the westand been to Winton many times, too many missunderstandings,outstanding warrants and coppers with long memories -I may need a disguise.
    Dave-The edit was hard to swallow but I can choke it down, I threw in one little extra that I’m attatched too , be interested to see the sequencing.

  • Dear Reimar,

    I really hope and pray for your fast recovery.
    I would like to recommend some.
    I asked my daugher about that…My daughter is oriental medicine doctor.

    It helps you to go acupucturist as soon as possible.
    She has experienced many patients of Bell Palsy.
    She said that … prognosis is better to treat as soon as possible and as frequent as possible.

    And cold wind and air conditioner is not good for you.
    Massage and warm tha paralysis part softly.
    Like vocal exercises, you move your mouth a.e.i.o.u every day.
    vt.B12 and blood flow improvement is good, too.
    Please relax and sleep sufficiently.

    Take care of yourself,


    “too many missunderstandings,outstanding warrants and coppers with long memories -I may need a disguise”

    This is sounding better all the time !

  • a civilian-mass audience


    LOVE YOU forever

    P.S check your mail-box…I mean what I write…don’t hesitate…

  • JOHN G
    sent you email – my server has been playing up lately.. did you get it?

  • Just interested in other’s opinions on this art award recently held here in NZ. I know it’s the old “is it art” debate and I know I’m probably a bit dense ,but I really don’t get it…


  • a civilian-mass audience


    Today, you are not only photophilosophers .
    Today you are true Civilians !!!

    THANK YOU for your spirit, thank you for your support.
    BURNians UNITED !!! Together and only together we can succeed !!!
    DavidB, kiss baby Tor Capa.
    Thodoris,Athens 4th of October…cold beer on me.

  • a civilian-mass audience

    KATHLEEN, KATIE, Street fighter,

    Since you came back…I feel so happy…I feel that I am at HOME !!!
    Kiss mama, kiss our kids and fight for your right to PARTYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
    hihi…love …keep going…write a book or something
    (I will keep pushing you…Forevaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrr)

    I am following your progress. You are the BURN muse with Vision.LOVE

    OUR PATRICIA,the white Eagle,
    I wish I can write like Katie so I can express my LOVEEEEEE.
    THANK YOU for now…Speechless

  • Ross the curators are playing the Tate Gallery game of shock horror it’s controversial……. the aim it so publisise the gallery. Galleries have been under siege from the commercial entertainment business and now the net, this is more about bums on seat than art.
    When the person gets to the gallery, they are exposed to other art works and the winner in this case a pile of rubbish (may not be an important artwork) has played an important role

  • Imants; Ok, I see. Well I did say I was a bit dense… :-)

  • David Bowen. Yeah got it. Email me the address and I will put it in the post. I will give the sensor a clean too….youve got glass for it right???

  • Ross

    Imants gives the cynical view and he may or may not be right but surely the judges are not that immoral. You say you know its the Is it Art debate but perhaps you are not familiar with the actual arguements. I know i’ve read them but i can’t remember too much of the detail myself.

    Secondly he’s not the first artist to put together works without seeing them. It might have been Sol LeWitt who was first back in the 60s.

    I don’t think either of those second speakers added much to the discussion. She was weak and he is not the right sort of artist to be protesting this sort of art. I’d rather see another contemporary artist call it trash and explain why.

    If you have a look at the artist’s site, you can see its all difficult work. It requires you to exercise your mind a bit and still you’d get more out of it if you were to read more about the ideas that inform his art.

    I like the way it actually looks like art. Ie being presented on a plinth and how it has a sculptural shape. I think it could be enjoyable to study all the details on the different wrappers to see the names and stamps and whatnot. You might even want to get off on the juxtaposition of this bit of scrap with that bit of scrap. Sure you could do this with any old pile of rubbish but the point is you wouldn’t because that’s not in a gallery where as this is. When its in a gallery, you are meant to study it aesthetically. But this is more about the idea than about those visual things. I know when I look at paintings, i like looking at this brush stroke against that brushstroke, though of course here what is put next to what is not done with intention, skill or deliberation. But you know an artwork like this challenges the viewer to work at it and to use your imagination and if are open to it, you can find something to enjoy. Maybe more than you would have anticipated. And maybe there are more surprises to be found in a work like this than your standard skill based works.

    There was an art work i saw in the Biennale of Sydney once where a large low flat plinth was covered in 1000s of lollies, Colombines I think they were. I am not sure if it was the same artist. But anyway I think this is wittier. The business about the wrappers of the art works i think may refer to discussions of the ideas of presence and absence. It’s a notion that has engaged artists for quite a long time. Anyway these sorts of artists are always trying to push the envelope, pardon the pun.

  • Andrea; but I would be pretty brassed off if I was one of the artists who had to submit a photo of their art work to get it accepted… Obviously the artist had a “inside track” to the judges to get that sort of concession, not exactly a level playing field. One law for one but not the others…

  • Not a cynical view at all I have a fair few friends that curate our top galleries and these issues are constantly on the agenda. It is quite easy to justify the work’s conceptual reasoning within contemporary art practice and it is the whole show itself that is the artwork not the individual pieces. The award goes to the work that best exemplifies the show itself, in other words it represents a way of thinking.

    Not many curators get the sack for a dud show or two, its what they bring to the gallery over a longer period of time.,all galleries have curatorial agendas. Queensland State Gallery runs a very pro Asia Pacific agenda and is probably the most progressive of all our galleries

  • a civilian-mass audience


  • DAH:

    That is great advice and great wisdom and very much appreciated. I have been reading all about the career of Doug Menuez who indeed did burnout chasing ad shoots and has now re-calibrated his whole outlook. I assume you know him? He has some great advice too.

    I just have been out for 3 hours shooting in the emerging financial district here in Bucharest this morning until the light got too harsh, capturing young business men and women coming into work as another part of my larger project on Bucharest 20 years after the fall of Communism. You know, in the day time with lots of people around things go a lot better. But still I was the only foreigner around and of course the only person with a camera, so I do stand out a bit. Part of the reaction from people here sometimes is because they are not used to having anyone around on the street taking pictures and they automatically think you must be trying to show Romania in a negative light. Also, during Communism you could not photograph on the street and everyone was told to report any suspicious activity.

    What really made my day right now was when I took a shot of a well dressed young women who smiled and flirted with me when I clicked the shutter. I probably made her day as well. I just loved that moment.

    I had lost my way a bit. Back to Zem meditation and smiling and loving life.



  • a civilian-mass audience


    You are a BURNIAN …what else can you do…smiling and loving life…
    By the way, what do you drink up there ???

  • john G – yeps.. and an sb28 – don’t need ttl :o)
    okay – will do now..
    thanks john.. much appreciated..

  • a civilian-mass audience


    after you finish with johnnyG and sb’s come back for cappuccino…:)))
    it’s raining in Greece !!! I am summer person:((( hmmmm…

  • raining in greece.. dry in bergen.. now.. there is a turn up :o)

    yes – coffee would be good.. i thought i would try cider last night..
    it reminded me of being 14 and not knowing what alcohol to buy..

    i think i’ll wait another 22 years before trying again..

    top cat is playing nicely on the floor with a pair of beates jeans.. i can see him in the corner of my eye.. he has a cold.. i have a cold too.. sort throats and running noses all round.
    going to stay indoors today..

    mumble.. mumble..

  • Burnians,
    thank you so much for all the helpful comments. Personally I don’t like to talk about health stuff, but it was a great help in this case for me. And with this mysterious paralysis I can see the way ahead more clearly.
    Jason, thank you so much for this long explanation. You are spot on with your assessment. Yes, I suspect stress is involved although I didn’t feel like it, but perhaps my body felt it. I definitely contemplate to go on a hiatus. I didn’t know this expression before.
    Kyunghee Lee, I look for accupuncture right now and I also feel that keeping my neck warm is important.
    Civi, you are great!
    David, there is no cure for a running nose. Had one this week as well. Even space shuttle missions had to be delayed because of this. The only compfort: it goes away. Vitamin C, lots of tissues and plenty of sleep or rest. Your body is not at 100 % mentally and physically. Let’s have a break!
    Sun is shining in Germany and I just got a book by Sam Abell “The life of a photograph”. Looks great!
    Burnians, enjoy the day!

  • Burnians,

    back from the US – good to see things running hot here. Will check back with a strong coffee and see if I catch up at least a little. Jetlag has me in it’s claws (7 hours difference) and I simply do not understand how other people manage this so seemingly easily – like the stewardess I was talking to, who sais she just needs one good night of rest. Amazing.

    My trip to Texas was great although surprising: I was expecting desert and I got … rain! Beautiful skies full of colour and clouds … but just not what I had expected. “Monsoum” the old pakistani lady running a tidy motel in Van Horn said, as she nodded with a stern look towards the dark sky “it will not stop soon”. And she was right: it did NOT stop but for a (very) few hours of rainbowy skies every day. It was beautiful. But it slowed the driving down. At the end we did not manage to meet up with Lance Rosenfield in Austin because we needed to hurry to Dallas in time to get our plane back. Very unfortunate! Austin is supposed to be the music capital of Texas, as I heard, and as we were on the road with guitarrs and cameras, we were looking forward to a nice night out in Austin with Lance, listening to some randome band and having a cool beer – besides squeezing Lance for feedback regarding Perpignan.

    Oh well … next time.
    And anybody who passes through Texas: please visit Marfa! Amazing place …

    Back here later. I really need to catch up with you guys.


  • Ross, Given the nature of the work, i suspect that he would have shown his instructions in his application and got invited to participate on the basis of that, and his CV of course which is always part of the application process. I think once you’ve already got a big reputation, you are virtually guaranteed a place in the show, but not necessarily the prize. I really can’t see the point of demanding a photograph of this work beforehand. Artists complaining about it, is just a case of sour grapes and a few sour grapes is normal in these shows. If you think about what the picture is meant to do, it seems totally unnecessary to supply one in his case.

  • David…

    Re: safelights, here are a couple pages on testing for fog limits of safelights:


    Scroll down on both links for the relevant information. I prefer having at least 15 minutes of “safe exposure time” under my safelights, since I use many exposure steps with masking, dodging and burning at different contrast, and of course larger prints require longer times anyway…
    And of course there is always uncle Adam’s bible, “the print” pages 30 to 33…

  • Kathleen,

    The link you posted is for inkjet prints. Not that I have anything negative to say against high end pigment prints, but it *is* a different beast.

    A couple years back I compiled a list of highly regarded silver printers. I’ll try to locate it as a reference for anyone interested.

  • micheal/andrea, I don’t know if you have tried acupuncture or not, but I have found it to be very helpful for a number of things..in college in the winter there were times when I could barely walk because of knee pain (I used to dance in high school) and acupuncture helped so much..i have battled migraines for a long time and a well timed treatment can keep me out of agony. in truth i’ve had sessions that seem to do nothing, but then i’ve had other that leave me on cloud nine..


    eeks..did i not read back far enough or just interpret ¨Master¨ as being pro printer..Yes, i was even thinking as i posted the link, ¨maybe they mean darkroom printing¨..so sorry if i tossed you a red herring!

    I realize of course that it´s a different beast, and even as a film shooter, i have never ever been near a darkroom (well, that´s a lie..i was in one once)…much to my constant regret as i know that i am denying myself the richest of all experiences for a film shooter. In this digital age printing will refer more and more to ink jet..*alas*..AND I thought since Erica was scanning lo-res that she was doing her initial edit with the plan to scan her choices hi-res and print digitally. So, if i didn´t read back far enough, so sorry :))

    Gosh…to learn darkroom…wow..the ultimat ejoy i would think..am i being too romantic?


    Now, reading that you feel home just because i am here makes me sooo happy..you are so sensitive to pick up on the smallest vibes people send out and home and mom and all the good things that means is a very important part of my life. That you just feel that makes ME feel like you understand. Street-fighters and home are not contradictory terms. And the day you said you were leaving my key under the pot was such a powerful visual to me, said so much about you..and on a difficult day for me..will never forget your generosity. YOU have a great afternoon and evening!


    hahaha, yes moving to film is um, different. I was prompted, persuaded and coerced to do it by a film shooter who had a big influence on me at the time. I took the leap into the great unknown and instead of being there to help me through all the inevitable quirks, blind alleys and absolute maze (to me) of different films, what´s, why´s and how´s..he abandoned me to my fate and i ended up working it all out myself. My daughter´s 14 yr. old girlfriend brought me my first scanner from the US in a suitcase and the day i hooked it up and made my first scan was unforgettable. After the thousands that i have scanned i still remember that photograph the way we remember our first sexual experience. I e-mailed it to everyone i knew. Nice photo too.

    Yeah, as Justin pointed out, flat bed scanners are way, way cheaper and it might be wise to start there first. And also, as he said, there are companies making reasonably priced glass holders for MF negs to use with flat bed scanners though i believe (and check this) that the Epson V700 and 750 scanners MIGHT provide them in the box. I had a V750 but far preferred the dedicated negative scanner.

    And, don´t panic..take this a step at a time and you will be rewarded.

    Bye all..


  • “AND I thought since Erica was scanning lo-res that she was doing her initial edit with the plan to scan her choices hi-res and print digitally.”

    what I usually do when I shoot film is I look at all the negs with a loupe, I don’t contact unless it is for a client, then I scan low res as a way to learn about my shortcomings (I can remember most of my shots and what I thought I was trying to do, so i can quickly see if i can see what missed) and those get deleted. The maybes and the yeses get kept, and then later I do the high res/corrected of the keepers for website, image requests, editorial use, contests, grant apps, etc. Occasionally I will print from these, but most often I still use traditional processes for final work.

  • Erica

    Ok, i get it..you make a digital file of your maybes/keepers and when you print you generally go back to the negative.

    Thanks for clarifying..


  • So what is everyone up to today?

  • Kathleen,

    Just like with everything else, you’ll probably get a different answer depending who you’ll ask…

    Yes, darkrooms are usually over romanticized by those who haven’t spent hundreds or thousands of hours in one… *I* have a love/hate relationship with my darkroom… kind of like my relationship with my scanner/post-processing-software… I see them all as necessary tools in order to realize and communicate my “vision”… meaning, if could do it without them I most certainly would…

    On one hand the countless hours of standing, bending and lifting heavy trays have “gifted” me with chronic back pain, on the other the sense of accomplishment when I get it *just right* is not something I can describe—but I hope that it resides in some form in the work itself, making it “special…”

    It’s kind of like a chess game… based on your experience (and some *time consuming* tests) you have to “predict” a certain sequence of actions (dodging, burning, etc…) in the hopes that the final outcome will look as you’d like it to look… if *any* of those steps is even a bit off, you have to start all over again. I recently lost a print after more than an hour of full processing, while squeezing the excess water out of it before hanging it to dry… I almost wept…

    Now, the final look and archival quality of pigment prints *is* comparable to what can be achieved in the darkroom, with *much* more precise control, predictability and repeatability… *but* whenever I sell (or give away) a final 16×20” fiber-base print I almost feel like giving away a child, something that is just not there when I give out an inkjet print…


    (p.s. I don’t have children… and if I did I wouldn’t give them away…)

  • Erica, I haven’t had acupuncture but I know there are many who swear by it and many who say it did nothing for them. My take on acupuncture itself is that a good practitioner can probably make some effect and I am guessing, but i think it probably knocks out some of the nerves temporarily when it gives you pain relief otherwise you wouldn’t have to go back for more. I think it works on nerves. If you are going to get better anyway, I can’t quite see what the acupuncture would do here. But I guess each to their own.

  • A Civilian mass audience:

    110 proof plum brandy.

    Re: ad work. Over on a photo editor another post re: advertising wit my questions exactly:


  • I don’t miss the darkroom one bit. The very first roll of film i processed was in a tiny disused toilet in our old house. I was so frightened that I would make a mistake that my hands couldn’t stop shaking. After that scary experience, I converted my bedroom to a darkroom and almost every night for two years, I’d spend most of the night in my darkroom. I couldn’t get it light tight enough to work in it by day. It was tedious to have to put stuff away every day. The chemicals are such a mess. There is nothing romantic about darkroom chemicals. They are just plain poison. Of course it wasn’t so bad when I got to work in the college darkrooms but we weren’t allowed to do that at Tech college except during class. By the time I got to uni two years later I was over it. I never ever contemplated a job in a print lab. I am so happy about digital photography and whenever i read that photographer declares their no difference between a hand made print and a digital print, I feel good inside. Of course I did enjoy making photograms. Now that was fun. Working with a mural enlarger was also a good experience and I couldn’t have done that with digital. There are probably a few other things that are still better done in a darkroom, cyanotypes for example, but I am past all that now. Besides, I can’t see properly in a darkroom.

  • Forget the first time you had sex, what was your first experience in a dark room like?

  • erica–

    since you asked..

    i’m catching a plane in a few hours to upstate, NY., where i was raised and where much of my family still resides.
    it’s been 19 years since i’ve returned.
    thank goodness i came across a very cheap ticket a few months ago – $200.00 round-trip from seattle.
    just found out a few days ago that my pop is dying and could pass any day now.
    we’ll all be round his bedside for the first time in almost two decades.
    don’t think i’ll photograph it – maybe – but he’s very private.
    i did make some photos when my mom passed four years ago.
    my brother found out and admonished me saying, “do you think she’d want those photos in existence”?
    the truth was she wouldn’t so i destroyed them.
    on a lighter note, one of my closest street daughters just had a beautiful baby girl a few hours ago.
    she’s in housing now and surrounded by her loving family.
    birth and death… as the wheel turns on and on.
    thank you for allowing me to express this here.
    it helps..
    i rarely chime in any more since road trips but i still feel very close to you all.




  • john gladdy–

    thank you for pointing me to Jindrich Streit’s work – love, LOVE it.. wow…

  • katia xo..will drop you a line..

  • “Davin Ellicson wrote:
    How can I get previously shot documentary work used in ads? Join Gallery Stock? Do I have to have a rep though to do this or can I try approaching individual ad agencies? ”

    I took the liberty of copying your question from ‘A Photo Editor’

    I would think that marketing archived doc work to advertisers will be targeting a microscopically small
    segment of the photo buying world.

    First off, the likelihood of any client signing off on an ad where no model release exists would
    be next to nil. (assuming, of course, there is a recognizable person in the picture.

    I think a better strategy would be to pitch your documentary ‘style’ to clients rather than
    your finished documentary projests.
    I also think that, for your target market (buyers and creators of advertising) hooking up with
    the proper rep likely will help optimize your chance for access.


  • a civilian-mass audience

    KATIA ,

    Congratulations for the new baby
    and Congratulations for your daddy !!!
    We have to start celebrating life and death …hmmm…
    Since I have not experienced my father’s death,not yet…I would better
    say only this :
    just whisper to your dad’s ear …”I will always love you”
    and squeeze his hand …he will understand …it’s all about energy !!!

    plum brandy …you got me on this one…it sounds to tech for me :)))

    You don’t really want to know what is under the pot,next to your key…I can’t tell,
    not yet…it’s so funny …
    you photographer= you visualize…LOVE…I am here …hihihihi,under the pot:)))
    Without you …I would BURN in the Universe …:))) I can’t forget my Gracie, DavidB…in the cold nights keeping the flames … and Herve, Akaky,Panos,Abele,Haik…MikeRR…so many

    I LOVE YOU ALLLLLLL…and I feel that We are getting closer !!!

  • a civilian-mass audience


    maybe you can team up with Davin…he is in Romania…
    maybe you can share some “blood”… just a suggestion…hmmm…

    Thodoris the Greek and the Cyprus let’s have the cold beer …damnit !!!

  • Civi,

    I’ll be in Athens from the 4th until the 7th of October… my Greek mobile will be 69-8471-6203… give me a call…

  • Katia, Civi

    “just whisper to your dad’s ear …”I will always love you”
    and squeeze his hand …he will understand …it’s all about energy !!!”

    Good advice Civi.

    I went to see my father on his death bed. I had not seen or spoken to him in 19 years, and had seen him only a few times since he left our family when I was 11. He was hooked up to a respirator and had tubes everywhere and did not appear conscious.

    I held his hand, and told him who I was. Then I told him of some of my very fond memories of him. I also told him that I was sorry he had missed my growing up, and that I was sorry that he never knew his grand-children. Then I told him that I forgave him, and that I loved him and asked if he hear me to squeeze my hand. He squeezed it very hard and did not want to let go. He passed away a few days later. I did not take photographs.

  • CIVI
    I hear you. I am just checking on the previous development (e.g. reading the previous comments) … A lot was said already – BURN moves forward fast.

    I wish you so so much strengh and energy for what lies ahead of you …

    same goes to you …
    There is a big buddhist center here in Frankfurt/M. and I heard that they are very well connected. Also there is a center for traditional chinese medicine here … If you want me to check something out for you, just drop me a note via info (at) lassal (dot) de.
    Ich hoffe, es geht Dir bald besser … es klingt wirklich ganz fürchterlich … Tut mir so leid.

  • While I couldn’t get my foot in the door in NYC, it seems that here in Bucharest things are blowing up a bit. I am a novelty. Americans don’t normally come on their own to Bucharest to live. In the last day, Romanian sites picked up the beginning of my youth project on Bucharest 20 years after the fall of Communism and said that an American coming here and photographing the youth cultures shows just how far Bucharest has come recently–it is a real European capital now. My blog went from receiving 50 hits on average a day to 1100+ yesterday and then this Romanian newspaper has profiled me today:


    Ok, so now where are the women?! :))))))))))))))))))))))

  • CIVI
    I think Davin is doing quite fine, is he not? :-)

    I was in Romania with Antonin Kratochvil in May and … yes. It is a very special situation there. And yes, it was the first time ever that I found myself in trouble only for having a camera (little, old point&shoot) with me. Of course this was an individual experience … I cannot speak for anyone else. But I know that Antonin was quite concerned. I was the only one in the workshop who decided to not use a guide&translator … Fact is, there were not enough translators&guides for all of us. People were going out to work in groups so that they could share a guide. I have not heard of anybody with a guide having had problems. But I was the only one who decided to work in trains and as there were not enough guides … it would have been very selfish of me to ask for one for me alone. And I really thought it would be no problem. I was absolutely not expecting the extreme situation I was to get into.

    I was travelling alone in trains (always the same route) and after the second day I had to sit down to decide if I should quit the workshop, change my subject radically or find a way around the problem. I felt really threatened – mostly because also a lot of alcohol was involved. Paranoia & alcohol together are quite scary.

    I decided to try at least to make the best out of it. I made some “acquaintances” among the official personell at the stations, getting information about what really was prohibited and what was not (after all there COULD have been some law that I was trespassing unknowingly), which was not that easy because hardly anybody spoke English. Fortunately I understand Romanian a little – so mostly the people I met had to do the talkind and I was nodding my way around. But it worked well enough. Then I first went REALLY openly to people in the trains, explained with hands and feet what I was doing and if I could take a photograph. Only 2 of maybe 25 people declined that in a very polite way, which was fine for me. Most of the people were very positively excited about it, though. Everybody who gave me an email adress, got their portrait from me. And they were all very happy, as far as I could tell. This shielded me from the people who were not that happy … I did not have a “chaperone” sitting on my lap anymore … They did still stare at me from across the aile but they quit touching. So that was fine. Needless to say that the pictures I took of the posing people were not that grand, but they were the entry card and gave me a little bit more space – and fun … and a lot of good vibrations.

    The rest of the days I spent sitting in the train pretending to fix my camera whilst I was taking pictures for my new “under cover” essay. The essay I had started out with was not possible any more, but this all actually forced me into something much more intense and revarding (at least for me – although Antonin was quite appreciative too).

    So at the beginning I was puzzeled, then concerned – even afraid – but at the end I was happy for all of it. I would not have met a lot of wonderful romanian people, with whom I am partially still in contact, if it weren’t for that few who wanted to give me a hard time.

    But yes … reading your comments … I surely understood what you were describing. It might be part of the reason for Romania not being that well covered photography wise … ever thought of it this way?

    Glad you now found a way to deal with it in a positive way. :-)))))
    I wish you good luck.

  • Lassal:

    Classic post by you. Romania is indeed a singular experience. In the countryside I have no problems. I lived for an entire year for free there by farming with my host family. Bucuresti is a different beast. But it is possible to meet the bravado and the gazes of women. Yes, women gaze at men here. I feel totally checked out and stripped by women(!)

    Photographing here is an exhilarating, almost sexual experience in a way for me. Of course H C-B described the whole act as orgasmic :)

    I sat on Kratochvil’s couch in his NYC apartment for an hour in March 2005. He ripped me to shreds :)))))))))

  • mtomalty:

    multumesc for that sage advice.

  • “What is everyone doing today?”

    Celebrating my birthday of course! :))

    Beautiful hike in the light rain, great lunch..Now pouring over my long shopping list of camera gear to see which item or items are worthy of being a birthday present. New camera batteries? More CF cards? Think I’ll save those for (another) rainy day. Lightroom and CS4 upgrade? Perhaps…A second digital camera body? Wishful thinking. LaCie hard drive and Hyperdrive Colorspace for my upcoming India trip? How about a B&H charge card with no limit? Now THAT sounds good.

    Teaching myself Iweb so I can get this website up and running.

    Have a great day everyone!

  • Neat series on Slate.com http://www.slate.com/id/2228548/
    Ramadan around the world. Don’t take for granted the gift
    of high speed information. Some wonderful images.

  • Cathy; “How about a B&H charge card with no limit?” especially if it stipulates that you don’t have to pay it off… :-)

    “What is everyone doing today?” Attempting to write a coherant Arts Grant proposal, and it’s doing my head in… All of this second guessing what they want to hear, is a bit of a pain.

  • Question:

    I plan to use neodymium magnets to “hang” a small exhibition at the coming Photofair in London… I will also use a laptop for a slideshow, and I have some concerns about the safety of the computer… does any of you know if there is a box or some sort in which I could enclose those powerful magnets so I don’t have to worry for the electronics while in transit?


    first , i am sorry to hear about your father….my heart is with you….

    i am also pleased to hear from you on Burn….i feel i lost contact with you….i was thinking about you the other day and trying to figure out how i could give you some funding for your ongoing project…i do have some funds in the EPF account and would give you some if i can figure out a legal way to do it…those funds come into the Magnum Cultural Foundation as non-profit donations, so i don’t think i can just arbitrarily pass it out here and there on my own whim…but, please contact me by private e-mail and maybe we can figure out something…

    hugs, david

  • DAVID,

    I just sent you a PM re SUNBURN….


    May your time with your father give him comfort, and offer you a sense of completion. Most of us have old family-type baggage that needs to be left behind so we can get on with our lives. This sounds like the perfect opportunity for you to take care of any unfinished business so you can fly free.

    Sending you much love.



    My best wishes and thoughts are with you and your family..to think you have already lost your Mom..and going home to say goodbye to your Dad..i am just so moved by your post, your words and your love..great big oodles and gobs of love is what you are.

    Please come back here soon..we seriously miss you!


    Well???so how did the B52´s say it? ¨How about givin´ me some of that good stuff¨..where´s the suprise new work?? show and tell!


  • Katia; Best wishes to you and your family. I hope the thoughts of everyone here give you strength.

    Take care; Ross

  • Ross, re: trash

    An friend of ours living close by on Lasqueti Island, Volaria, has a now deceased uncle who was a famous Italian “conceptual” artist. His cans of “Artists shit” and other similar works sell for outrageous amounts of money (tens of thousands of dollars) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist's_shit

  • CATHY..

    very nice homepage portrait…..

  • David!!!!! hola!!!!!…long time….Elliot Erwitt is here working a great project with us in Puerto Rico after his last visit 50 years ago….I hope one day you’ll come too!!…un abrazo.


  • CATHY,

    Let me second David’s praise for the portrait on the opening page of your website. Not only are the expression and posture of the subject great, but the right side of the frame provides a wonderful environmental context that is just out of focus enough and wonderfully positioned so that it doesn’t detract from the main subject at all, but complements it.

    Looking forward to seeing more when your site is more together. Best of luck with it!

  • The House in the photo was in a movie I just saw called Nights in Rodanthe.

  • David and Sidney,

    Thanks for looking at my site-to-be. Glad you like the portrait! A nice end to a great birthday! :))

    I finally figured out today how to post it on the page without half the photo getting cropped out.
    Enjoying learning Iweb, think I’ll tackle Lightroom next. That’s what I love about photography, always new things to learn. Photography just keeps expanding…a lot faster than I do but it’s always a fun ride!

  • right now..? listening to john mclaughlin.. between nothingness and eternity.. jan hammer, jerry goodman, billy cobham.. rocks like bamboo.

    “Barren of events,
    Rich in pretensions
    My earthly life.

    My real name.

    Wholly unto myself
    I exist.

    I wrap no soul
    In my embrace.

    No mentor worthy
    Of my calibre
    Have I.

    I am all alone
    Between failure
    And frustration.

    I am the red thread
    And Eternity.”

    -sri chinmoy

  • yes yes cathy..
    good luck for the year ahead.
    bappy hirthday.

  • David BOWIE
    I love the poetic way…
    or should i say, vertical Wendy style…
    ( pacifico beer does that to me sometimes )_

  • Again..
    entering north korea aint easy..Sean is DA MAN.. HE strikes just “once”…
    and he nails it…

  • for panos skidoos
    .. today stoopid photographer points us to a flickr set where a guy turned an i-pod box into a camera :o)

  • damn tumbleweed.. getting caught in my hair..

  • I’m awake…I’m awake!!!


  • too late my dear – i’m not here anymore..
    well.. in 1 min..

  • DAH

    I’ve just sent you an email with a few quick questions I need to have answered. Thanks…


  • scan, scan, scan, scan SCAN good morning good people

  • Good morning, Erica. I’m really getting excited to see your essay. I know you will soon be showing your images to David. Hope we don’t have to wait too much longer after that ;=)


  • ‘what is everyone doing today’

    ive got soccer practice…

    i will tell zac (4yo) that this is THE BALL and it goes THAT WAY
    it’s ok to be sweaty.

    good day everyone…

  • @katia,

    much love, my dear.
    the world does go on
    memories and love do stay and keep us going on.

  • patricia :) thank you..it is so sweet that you are excited to see them, but you all really have been with me through the year of making this work.

    yesterday after 10 hours scanning and only a couple of keepers i thought NOBODY would be seeing anything, but i think I just had a bum lot and today is already looking better. I am finding overall that at this point the selection gets harder, more specific, because it is about finding images that work together, not just as singles..but you know all about that, eh?

  • Oh yes, Erica, I do know what you’re saying. The longer I worked on my project, the fewer images made the cut. And towards the end, even though I took some photos I liked a lot, if they didn’t add to the edit in a very specific, integrated way, they were out. By then it was like pulling teeth to come up with ANYTHING that I considered a keeper. Strange thing was, though, that two of my favorite three images came at the very last, months after I thought I was “done.” David had said that would happen and he was right.

    If I didn’t learn anything else from this process, I sure learned how to be a VERY fussy editor!


  • patricia, also wanted to ask you..i think you and david used several different methods to edit. i recall you talking about the benefit of making the small prints, but at this juncture i wont have time to do so. what other method served you well when showing work to david to edit? did you use photoshelter? thanks!

  • Erica, DAH and I did our final Blurb book edit at a small restaurant in the Chelsea neighborhood of Manhattan. I had my laptop and we used the Mac editing program, Aperture. It worked wonderfully well because we could drag images around, create selected edits, and then even do a Blurb book layout by putting stars next to which images would stand alone and which would be positioned on facing pages. Actually, Aperture was also the software that was used in all the LOOK3 workshops for projecting photos and essays on the screen.

    It’s all I use now for editing. And, no, I don’t get a discount from Mac for saying that!


  • Got it..before that though, any other methods? I am trying to figure the best way to show DAH without aperture, etc..

  • Before that, we used prints. Sorry I can’t be more help, Erica. I’m sure you can use Photoshelter. Seems to me that’s how David is doing a lot of his Skype edits these days.


  • All,
    don’t listen to Patricia..
    She actually is sponsored by Apple..
    Forget aperture. Too cumbersome too heavy
    too expensive..
    Get a free trial of PHOTO MECHANIC..
    that’s real pro good stuff..
    pat, big hug

  • Erica,
    I second Patricia – I am so so curious to finally get to see your project! You have been working so hard on this … It is going to be great! I am very sure of that.

    As to editing, a lot of us in fact use Photoshelter to show work to David and maybe edit together. There are some nice features like being able to change the sequence or to define various sequences based onto the same archive etc. Also … you only need a browser and a free account will do for the beginning (unless you have too much to show – max I think were 150MB). Downside is, that the images you deal with are usually quite small. Normally I guess it is not such a problem for a general edit. But yesterday for example I sent David pictures for my last project before putting a book dummy together and they are very low in contrast and hard to depict. David did not complain about it but … lets just say that Photoshelter was not the best choice for an edit of these specific work. Nonetheless I am very happy to have an account there – for most of my other work it works just fine.

  • ERICA!
    if you have a mac laptop, you can use iPhoto — it’s free, you have it — import your photos, create an album (otherwise you can’t change the order) — then just drag them around to change the sequence… and… you can use iphoto to create a book — in this way you can see how the images look as spreads… not the best, but cheaper than aperture.


  • I’m also (re)editing at the moment…

    For digital files, I prefer LightRoom… you can drag thumbnails around for sequencing, change thumbnail size and magnify for a closer look quickly, and use many different attributes (stars, colors, keywords, etc…) to organize a big number of pictures in smaller subgroups for easier editing without the need for creating duplicates and a maze of actual folders and subfolders to put them in… something I was doing a lot before meeting LR…

    For prints, I prefer the 5×7” size (the inexpensive digital ones from the low resolution first scans) since the prints are big enough to give a decent idea of what’s what, but still small enough to be able to spread them on a relatively small area and of course carry them easily around…

  • Erica, good for you that you are in NYC, and you can just arrange to meet DAH in person. For us on the other side of the world Photoshelter has been a great help for long distance editing. Especially combining it with Skype. And maybe there are even better possibilities we do not know of yet.

    You will probably be sitting right next to DAH, so the editing will be different than for us. I noticed in our last workshop how used DAH seems to be to edit from a screen. But … having witnessed the difference by watching the edit of Audrey’s and Lance’s photographs (they had small prints with them) … I would myself try everything to have these prints available for an important edit. Maybe you can still manage??

  • “Maybe you can still manage??”

    I don’t know, probably not..27 rolls of 35mm left to scan, and then do my edit..am at my maximum already of what I can do

    I already have photoshelter so will prob put everything there if DAH uses that sometimes, but i am curious about this ‘editing from a screen’ idea.. but i also have the book dummy from everything that i shot up until LOOK – DAH already saw that, so it’s a question of what to add in and what to leave out, but more specifically i am asking for help with a tight edit of about 15 images.

    DAH? any preferred method for us?

    LASSAL – is your book project the postcard series?

    “27 rolls of 35mm left to scan” …
    can you perhaps get someone to help you with that maybe? Sorry I am so far away … I would really be glad to help you with this.

    BTW I read a couple of comments back that you are getting into bill charles’ rooster?! WOW Erica, that is AMAZING! Congratulations is not enough here. I am really so happy for you! But then again: if you got in there, then you deserve it.

    As to your question about the book project. No, it is not the postcard series (yet). It is actually a quick shot I did in Lobo, Texas, two weeks ago.

  • AH! I must clear that up because some one else read it the same way..

    No, no..I am not with bill charles at all..I have been invited to have work with Gallery Stock – an honor in my mind because of the wonderful company i will be in, but all together different.

    (so kind about you helping if you were here..I’d make you a fine lunch!)

  • Katja,
    I wanted to send you a private email, but I don’t know your address? I want to say thank you for your supportive words, which I appreciated very much. Later I read about your father, which is really sad. When a loved one has to go, it is never easy and it is for me the biggest nightmare. So far I have been lucky. I am not good at giving comfort in these moments, but my First Nation friends on Vancouver Island always said when we went on a boat and saw an eagle sitting on a tree: look, the elders are watching! I liked the idea that something of us will continue to be here around us (the Indians burried their dead in caves or simply put them on a special place so the wildlife would sooner or later eat them). Another thing my friends used to say is that it is good to accept the passing of a loved person so he or she will find her peace and be able to rest in peace. I know this sounds a bit naive and certainly this is something you either believe in or not, but to me this idea gave me compfort and helped me to find peace.
    Stay strong, I will think of you and it should go without saying that I offer my help anytime!
    Big hugs!

    This was strong tobacco. Now comes a short light hearted summary of my first accupuncture experience today. This morning I called my Chinese language teacher Li. She recommended a Chinese doctor whom I rang and made an appointment in the afternoon. Mrs Wu is a typical Chinese lady, very straight forward and of course with a big smile. And I don’t know why, but all my friends in China like to call me „Otto“ (my sir name is Ott) and Mrs Wu did exactly the same and was happy to welcome me with the words: „Ah Otto, come in!“
    I felt like back home in China!
    What I particularly liked about her was her comprehensive look at my situation. “Ah, Bell’s palsy, this will be gone in a month and I can help you! No problem!” she said confidently. She asked me lots of questions about my body behaviour and what I eat, drink, how I sleep, everything. Her diagnosis was simple: I have to eat more vegetables! And of course drink lots of green tea!
    Okay, will do!
    Then came the needles. The first one went straight into the middle of my head and the rest followed quickly – glad I couldn’t see them. It doesn’t hurt. After half an hour resting the first session was done and I got some cream with nice smelling Chinese herbs on my face.
    While driving home I was glad I did something good for my body and my health. Usually I spend so much money on fuel and expensive oil for my car, but this time it is my own engine that needs some care.
    Okay, and now I will enjoy one more time Glenn Campells wonderful work!

    thats exactly the right attitude..
    big hug

  • “I have been invited to have work with Gallery Stock”
    sorry, Erica, what does that mean? Seems that my English pitholes stroke again …

    But then again … even if being a different animal it does not seem to be less of a compliment – just as you put it. Sorry for getting that wrong, but Bill Charles is one of the few links I kept. :-)

    Since I fell in here, I heard you talking about photographing and scanning for this present project of yours. You must have taken so so many rolls of film (and you had other formats too, did you not? 8×10??)
    Is it hard for you to work so long on one specific project? Do your expectations change throughout the time?

    I for example tend to complicate things if I am around them for too long. I add stuff (a twist, another level, a new angle) – often I have to discard previous material due to this (as with the postcard projekt) and things become a little more complex in the making – I have to say that I enjoy doing the long term projects more, if they include some complexity. But I sometimes get nervous if I cannot speed things up. That is why I need parallel smaller project. Just to have the feeling of not-stopping.
    How is that for you?

    Hey, anybody out there in NYC to help Erica with the scans??????
    I heard she is a wonderful cook … :-))

  • Reimar … Otto …
    Panos is right: great attitude.
    Get well soon.

  • did someone say “tumbleweed”?

  • Lassal

    Your webside is very diddicult for me. I have alwyas problems with labirints :)
    I never know where I will find some essay or just a photo and what is behind most of links.
    But I have to say you are one of the very most amazing artis and photographer posted here on burn.
    You are like Martin Parr but with different language you speak.
    I never know what I find and I like the way you speak to me. And the consequence. Consequence of reality.

  • ERICA…

    inexpensive 4×6 prints always the best way…Thodorus and i worked this morning via Skype on his book just a bit, but i told him that while Skype and Photoshelter great for some editing , i would not want to be responsible for a book edited that way….rough editing can be done via these methods, but for something really really important and final, i prefer the hands on nature of “hard copy”…

  • Since Lightroom 2 is being discussed…just wanted to make sure everyone knows that Lightroom is now 30% off if you purchase or upgrade to Photoshop CS4 thru Adobe. This pricing has been going on for a while and has been extended.

  • DAH..

    for now then maybe we can find just the 15 for a tight edit? I really don’t think I will be able to pull the prints off..working 10 hours a day non stop already every day to get this scanned i time for the 23rd..for mr for the moment the important deadline is the one at the end of the month, and to get your opinion on the 15 for that

  • an aside..on artists, from A Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde

    “It is your best work, Basil, the best thing you have ever done,” said Lord Henry, languidly. “You must certainly send it next year to the Grosvenor. The Academy is too large and too vulgar. The Grosvenor is the only place.”

    “I don’t think I will send it anywhere,” he answered, tossing his head back in that odd way that used to make his friends laugh at him at Oxford. “No: I won’t send it anywhere.”

    Lord Henry elevated his eyebrows, and looked at him in amazement through the thin blue wreaths of smoke that curled up in such fanciful whorls from his heavy opium-tainted cigarette. “Not send it anywhere? My dear fellow, why? Have you any reason? What odd chaps you painters are! You do anything in the world to gain a reputation. As soon as you have one, you seem to want to throw it away. It is silly of you, for there is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about. A portrait like this would set you far above all the young men in England, and make the old men quite jealous, if old men are ever capable of any emotion.”

    “I know you will laugh at me,” he replied, “but I really can’t exhibit it. I have put too much of myself into it.”

  • emcd:

    im sending new work for the same end of month madness ;))))…and going on my own instincts ;))))…

    no help from anybody…without input….or eyes….

    how are we ever gonna know if not to risk failure on our own??

    especially, from magnum …gotta be ventured alone…

    make sense….??

    sending love


    p.s maine trip canceled….$$$…going instead to ottawa….

  • MARCIN …

    you know, comming from you, the dark poet of BURN, this comment really does mean a lot to me. Thanks, Marcin.
    Martin Parr … funny that you mention him. I remember well being very upset when I found out that he had a postcard project too :-))

    I cannot defend my website at present. It got stuck in the middle of me. It is quite organic. I will have to sort that monster out eventually.

    What happened to the project you were doing in your town? Are you still on it?

  • Lassal

    Your website is perfect. Do not change anything. Do not fight with this beautiful monster :) I have always something to find when I visit it from time to time. Diging… diging.
    mine of pleasure.

    Hometown is over because I am very rare there. I am working on series of photos about young nonprofesional models righ now. But I have not too much time for shooting so it’s goes like in a mud. we’ll see

  • Marcin, are you still using velvia?

  • No, too expensive process.
    Right now digi, soon 400tx.

  • “without input….or eyes….” if you should want eyes, I have some which can be lent to you :) but you seem set on being a lone wolf on this one..

    “how are we ever gonna know”..know what?

    you know how you can look at the work of another and feel a sense of excitement and connection and a pull and respect and all that? I think when I show this work to a pair of trusted eyes, work that has been edited by me so many times from the very seeing by my eyes and heart, and again when I pressed the shutter, and again when I decide what to show, that what I will be looking for is a glimpse of that excitement and connection and such..and also, there is nothing like someone disliking something you already affirm in your heart to make you see it merits all the more..

  • re: that what I will be looking for is a glimpse of that excitement and connection and such (from someone whose vision I trust).. because that, to me, is exciting and telling and it informs me about the craft and the lineage and that very recognition in another (not from another) is part of the force of photography and art

  • Yeah … Digi seems so convenient.

    But you know what? Even being a 100% digital being, in the sense that I have never done any photography besides digital photography up to two weeks ago, the whole process got me so curious, that I am installing a dark room in the attick right now. :-) I just need to know how this stuff works. Guess I am kind of going backwards. So if you see someone next year, running around with a self made pinhole camera out of a flower pot – it will probably be me …

  • Erica …
    I really hope you will find all you are looking for and I hope that some day we will be able to see this project (too).

  • lassal..

    thanks so much, will answer your earlier question in a bit..getting foggy headed now

  • emcd:

    not a lone wolf….i help more people than people who help me……and people seem to ask (always) for help more than they’re ever willing to give…(not you of course :) )

    i was suggesting that given the deadline, who looks at the work is as critical as what is being looked at….on principle, i decided not to show my work with anyone associated with M for that deadline…

    that is what i was suggesting ;))))….

    nothing is more profound that sharing and having the voice of another connect and helping…..our own ideas grow from the connection and confrontation of another….

    we know we both understand that ;))))>..

    maybe that IS my lamentation here….and im feeling a bit frustrated by that…the need for all others eyes, when someone does need help, they’re left out…

    so, that’s my lone wolf….the lament of the one who

    said enough…


    we’ll talk in october :))))…see u in november…


  • Lassal. Hey! Build that darkroom..but it WILL take you on a mad journey. Check out WOLFGANG MOERSCH. Your neck of the woods I believe. Should be enough information there to keep you interested a while.
    Your web site is a puzzle for sure. Still trying to figure out my way round.

  • erica
    do not worry – do not hurry. it is late here and i will try to put my jetlag to sleep.

    wish u a good night and happy dreams.

  • hey john – good to hear from u :-)
    thanks for the “link” – i will check it out asap.
    the madder the journey the better, huh?! :-)

    btw, we are trying to plan a month in scotland over wintertime. driving there by car because of the dog – so maybe we could pass by london on the way there and visit you. it has been a while since that M-party…

    (ohhh … need … sleep now…sorry)

  • bob..ahh I see..but really my eyes are available if you’d like..and about the principle..i asked dah outright if there was any conflict – he said no – maybe you should reconsider if you feel like it could help..under faq it actually says “we encourage you to gather insight from respected colleagues..” also says the jury will not do preliminary reviews in fairness to all, but dah is not jury of course..but I will contact the organizers directly and ask if there is any conflict by talking with DAH..and of course will not if there is

  • Reimar,

    First let me say how genuinely happy I am to hear your visit to the acupuncturist went so well! Seriously. It appears you spent a good hour in a nice relaxed stress-free state and it did wonders for your attitude. And you got some wise nutritional advice! All very good.

    Now, please do not trouble yourself with the rest of this comment. It is for the others.

    For Erica, Patricia and the others who so strongly advocated for Reimar to see the acupuncturist: She did nothing to help his Bell’s Palsy. Nothing. In fact one of the first things she said to him was that his palsy will be gone in month. Well, no kidding. That’s precisely what all the medical literature says! That’s right, the vast majority of sufferers get better in about a month or so without any treatment whatsoever. You gotta give her points for not promising anything too specific. But then that’s how it works. While your sticking those needles in his face, be sure to tell him to get lots of rest, eat right and drink tea. And all will be fine. Again, duh!

    Reimar could get the same results visiting a masseuse or physical therapist, or better… buying some scented candles and taking a hot bath with his favorite mood music playing in the background. Plus it would have the added benefit of costing a whole lot less and be without the risk of hematoma or nerve damage-which can and does occasionally happen.

    If stress reducing TLC is all there is to expect from acupuncture, I say (if you can afford it) have a blast, knock yourself out! But saying it’ll actually fix or cure a particular medical condition outright is simply wrong, wasteful and in some cases dangerous.

    I hope this goes a little way in explaining why I feel so strongly about this.


  • You are welcome to your pov but unless you have suffered from something and have experienced what acupuncture may or may not do for you, it’s just an opinion..to me it is the same as me drinking a glass of something that my taste buds tell me is sweet, but you tell me it isn’t so, though you have neither my taste buds nor have you tried the drink..All I am saying is that I have concretely benefited from it – from not wAlking to walking, from excruciating pain to wellness..and all I said to r was to consider it. There is no reason not to try for ones self and determine for ones self. Am exhausted, don’t want to fight, just saying.

  • Michael Kircher,
    sorry but I feel I must join the debate just for one short incomplete post… (and sorry for my english in advance.) As a researcher in medical anthropology and sociology such matters interest me very much.

    The occident has embraced a rational way to see things. Accordingly, its medicine is currently evidence-based. Some of it works, some of it does not work. But one thing to remember in this is that medicine’s, like science’s findings are greatly influenced by various factors such as power, money, social. For example, we can mention the wide spread use of ghost-writing that is currently taking place in the pharmaceutical world…

    May I suggest to you Michael and others to go and read, for example, about the birth of psychiatry, you will be greatly surprised. Or the placebo effect in evidenced-based medicine. you will be really surprised there too.

    But meanwhile, maybe I can recommend a short, quick read, recent research on how scientific findings get published: it is striking, well worth the reading. It can be downloaded free on the periodical website…

    Turner, E. et al (2008), « Selective Publication of Antidepressant Trials and its Influence on Apparent Efficacy », The New England Journal of Medicine, 358, 3 : 252-260.

    I hope this helps to put things in perspective about the occidental medical “business” where sick people are clients…

    Peace and health to everyone. Burnians and others.

    Another Martin

  • From your comment, it appears you didn’t read my comment at all. You “know” what you know and that’s all there is to it. Evidence be damned.

    Just sayin’.


    Delighted to hear about your positive experience with the acupuncturist. It certainly sounds like a useful tool in your healing, and it sounds like Mrs. Wu also gave you some good nutritional advice. I so appreciate your openness to trying new things. Hope we can Skype again soon ;=)


  • I haven’t been following the whole thread re: acupuncture. But let me tell you, I wish I could be seeing one here in Bucharest (probably could but would have to find one that comes highly recommended – kind of worry about the needles – don’t want AIDS or HEP C. Yes, they should be disposable but who knows here in Romania. You can’t trust anything). Anyways, acupuncture back in the States was key for me once when I was forced to take a year off from college because of a mysterious pain in my entire legs. Turned out it seems to be an issue with my whole constitution–am wound a bit tight I mean muscle wise but also psychologically. It will be a lifelong effort to keep coming back to the breath and being in the moment and not taking everything so seriously! Of course shooting on the street here is great for increasing stress levels–just the opposite o what I need and what my picture taking needs. I feel that without even fully knowing it before I have set myself on a very specific path where I must overcome certain obstacles (moving here for one thing!)

  • “You “know” what you know and that’s all there is to it. Evidence be damned.”

    That statement would seem to cut both ways, as it were ;-)) Hmmm, why the seeming anger about people’s personal health choices. Here, in Washington State, acupuncture is both a licensed medical practice and is covered under many medical plans including those offered for state employees. It is a choice, and a personal and individual one, it would seem to me … but really, I am not trying to start up this conversation again.

  • I’ve got a woman – Ray Charles live at Olympia

  • Chris Cornell – Billie jean (acoustic live)

  • Reimar,

    Glad to your open mind to all possibility. You did well.:))
    There are several biggest General hospital in Korea. They have medical docors and Oriental medicine doctors. They work co-operatve ..consult each other. They respect each other. Oriental medicine doctor and Medcal doctor has different concept to access to disease. In western, disease occurs because of bacteria and virus… In Asia disease occurs from disharmony and brokness of ballance… So it is very helpful to combine and co-operate each other, I think.

    Actually if the patients of Bell palsy had not any treatments, nevertheless, 70-80% of them recover spontaneously… But we must do our best not to be the cases of 20- 30% patients. As you know I’m very poor in English, nevertheless I would like to write some… my family is of 3 medical doctors and 2 Oriental medicine doctors and I’m a pharmacist. I asked this to all my family and discussed. Please be confident of your treatment… We should always do our best. AS Mr.kircher’s worry , It is very important to go to the professional doctor.

    best wishes,

  • Marianne Faithfull – Sister Morphine

  • Hmm. . . “You are a living magnet. What you attract into your life is in harmony with your dominant thoughts.” – Brian Tracy

  • Michael,
    your concern and your comment is right. I see your point and it is good to be critical and I thank you for pointing out this aspect.
    There is no proof that accupuncture will help or improve anything. Probably everything works out fine both ways, but I feel I should not leave no stone unturned. I have confidence in the abilities of Mrs Wu and I have a good feeling. If not, I wouldn’t do it. Yes, maybe it is only a placebo, but even that is okay. Let’s wait and see.

  • ALL

    i just bought ‘Looking In: Robert Frank’s “The Americans”‘. The expanded edition is incredible because it includes 83 pages of contact sheets (from the final selection of photographs), correspondance, chronology, comparative sequencing etc.etc.
    It is a big fat book from Steidl and if I am not mistaken it is a catalogue that goes with an exhibition in Washington’s National Gallery of Art. The ISBN is: 978-3-86521-806-3
    Yes, it is expensive … but to be franc I would have spent the money alone to be able to look at the contact sheets … Very, VERY, V*E*R*Y interesting!!! And I have not had the time for more than a quick look.
    More about the subject here:

  • ERICA, BOB …

    I wish you much luck for the expression award. I am planning to take part next year if it is still on. Working on organization of a project right now that could be suitable. Just not this year.
    I will keep my fingers crossed for you.

    Bob, I can always lend my eyes to you too … you have to decide for yourself if you think my comments would be helpful. I feel I am not that good in commenting. I can comment on several things like composition etc, but at the end it is just a gut feeling that I have. That is why I have decided not to comment on the posted pictures here on Burn at present – at least until I can express my gut feelings better. I think people deserve more than a simple thumbs up or down without further explanation.

    But Bob … I felt sad reading your comment about people asking more help of you than they were willing to give. I have not had the impression you were asking for help. You have to mention it … please … Like other people ask you. They (we) won’t know you need them (us) otherwise …

    Of course I have no idea if you have actively asked anybody or not, but your comment just reminded me of a mistake I had done myself a couple of years ago: I expected people to be able to read into a situation (and my mind), and ended up being very dissapointed. Of course. And of course it was not only my fault to expect this from them – even if it was based on the effort I myself was putting into the task of solving THEIR problems – it was also unfair towards my family and friends who were not only unaware of the raised bar but also had not asked for it.

    Please, I am not saying you are doing this the same way, only that the comment reminded me of myself back then.
    If you think I can help you in any way, please please just tell me. OK?!

    Bob, the postcard project is still on … btw. :-) Just slow.


    Erica you are right on with this thinking…most bodies of work are improved with another set of eyes you can trust…of course, you must still make all final decisions……by the way, when are we meeting?? i am back in NYC on monday…tuesday morn??

    Bob, where/why your frustration/sense of persecution?? you are surrounded by people who will help…asking works…in this same vein, also confused a bit about your comment to Glenn “i have stood up for you for a long time, amid the silence..” what silence???

    cheers, david

  • Lassal
    September 18, 2009 at 5:33 pm
    Erica …
    I really hope you will find all you are looking for and I hope that some day we will be able to see this project (too).

    someday… Yes someday in this century…
    ( when “perfectionism” replaces the word “fear” or pure “laziness”…


    i was wondering about the postcard project too…you started that 14 months ago….and i still think it is such inspired work…and pink Lobo is nice too…but, shouldn’t you finish one thing before starting another?? or can you do both simultaneous?? some people can do two or three projects at once and maybe you are such a person…in any case, i would love to see postcards come right to the front….

    cheers, david

  • Lassal
    September 18, 2009 at 5:33 pm
    Erica …
    I really hope you will find all you are looking for and I hope that some day we will be able to see this project (too).

    someday… Yes someday in this century…
    ( when “perfectionism” replaces the word “fear” or pure “laziness”…Lassal
    September 19, 2009 at 6:23 am

    ERICA, BOB …

    I wish you much luck for the expression award. I am planning to take part next year if it is still on. Working on organization of a project right now that could be suitable. Just not this year.
    I will keep my fingers crossed for you.

    Yahhh me too..
    And I’m glad u guys “share” all that with us right after the deadlines are over…
    Just like back in latest look3 when emcd was announcing the potluck slideshow only
    after deadline was over..
    ( award whores.. GOOD LUCK.. keep your info for yourselves and share only when it’s too late..


  • PANOS …
    someone mentioned the expression award a couple of months ago… And I think it was on this blog. It was when we had the impression that magnum was announcing new competitions/awards daily. You might remember. I did print it out back then to keep it in mind – and it is sitting here in my calender as a note since then.
    This just to soften things up: it WAS mentioned. :-)
    I guess it was just forgotten or overlayed later.

    BTW the deadline is not over yet, it is september 30.

  • But Bob … I felt sad reading your comment about people asking more help of you than they were willing to give. I have not had the impression you were asking for help. You have to mention it … please … Like other people ask you. They (we) won’t know you need them (us) otherwise …

    I’m afraid Lassal is right…
    Instead of acting hurt and helpless ..
    Why don’t u be HUMBLE enough to ask for help
    from the REST OF US..??
    just like we all do or did on on point of time or another???
    Why don’t u guys( especially Emcd)..
    share work with us???
    Tell us erica..???
    3 years writing here with not even one new photo..
    But u obviously only care about prizes awards and cOmpetitions..
    Uninspiring… and plain boring..
    ( at least do us a favor and don’t act sooo hurt…)

  • Lassal:))
    not pissed at u…
    I despise all those awards chasers that so hypocritically act
    like they don’t care about awards..
    Competition whores..
    They don’t enter because of the love for photography..
    No no.. They enter because of the love of awards..
    Love of winning..
    Eternal students.. Never graduated..
    Never share work.. New or old..
    Only submissions hoping to win a prize..
    Sorry EMCD
    but photography is not LOTTO..
    ( even if someday u get lucky enough to win a prize.. Still .. It would be
    pure luck .. but obviously u don’t care.. Winning above all means..
    Ahhhhh… Going back to sleep…)

  • DAH,

    I definitively need more than one project at a time to keep me going smoothly. :-))))
    It is a combination of longterm and short term projects as much as a combination between different stages of projects and projects that deal with different aspects or equipment. I cannot find balance doing just one thing, I need the back and forth, I need different speeds and variations of circumstances. Otherwise I loose having fun with it and become exasperated when I get stuck. Now when I get stuck I just switch over and … well normally I find something in project #2 that gives me a clue for the issue in project #1. It feels a little like dancing and I love it very much.

    But you are right: it should not bee too many projects simultaneously. Actually, as I mentioned to you, I did the Lobo photographs during the 3 days we stood in Van Horn 2 weeks ago. So it was a really short term thing. And the layout of the book I figured out during the car drive … So that is fine too … I will have the dummy ready by tomorrow for a first test print.

    Not every project can work like this – I would not find it satisfactory – but once in a while I definitively need speed. Maybe I am too used to the overly tight commercial-deadlines (I have been working for agencies now for 10 years or so). I love to work under pressure. Not deadly pressure, but pressure. If nobody puts it on me I just put it there myself.

    And you are so so right with one other thing: the postcard project is going on kinda long. Well – I admit I was not worrying because I set up a 5 year time to do it after the workshop (remember you gave me the idea of travelling to each continent to complete it? I liked that idea but I cannot do it all in one shot). I am constantly working on it. Constantly getting emails of people who want to contribute. And I still think I can do it better: people are really opening up for this project – I feel I owe them the maximum I can do without bursting it.

    So I will probably complete 2 or 3 more projects until I finish the postcard project. At least that is the way it is looking to me right now …

    Maybe something happens that changes it all … I am leaving the doors and windows open for any kind of inspiration. You just never know … :-)


    I think we have had a discussion about awards and competitions before … Despite of it all and despite of the fact that – as you mentioned – you also could use luck in order to win one, it sure seems to be quite an important factor in CVs for the ones of us who are aiming at specific paths.
    And to underlay that … if it were not important in some sense you would not find Magnum or any other agency listening up the awards of their members peticulously.
    I guess it is just part of the market game. And it is an individual decision if you want to join it or not. I have not joined in yet. But I might in the future, depending on the projects on my table. Looking more for grants than awards, probably, to help me finance them. Whatever. These things are as they are. Not more and not less. But they do convey a message. And sometimes certain people will need that.

    Ok. Changing the subject: have you been to Marfa (Texas)? I am currently driving everybody crazy with my faszination! Great place! Go there!!!

  • David,

    I’ve sent an e-mail to you and Ms. Michelle(for safe delivery.
    Please check it …

    Lassal, Panos,
    Hi! Have a nice weekend. :)))

  • awards/ grants; thanks Lassal..exactly.

    Panos, don’t talk to me like that. I’m working non stop, certain things take time.

  • DAH

    is Wednesday or Thursday an option? anytime..

    sorry, I forgot to add some very important smilies ….
    here they come:

    Back to Marfa – when you get there, be shure to eat from the Food Shark! Best food I had in Texas in two weeks:

    (no … I am not getting anything for promoting them here … :-)
    btw … the Marfa lights … very impressive. We saw some too … Quite amazing.

    Ok. Off with Hunter the dog and Antoine the rubber duck for a swim in the river. I heard that this is good against jetlag – and I am getting desperate here (has anybody any more tips for me in case this one does not work?). I never ever had jetlag that badly. Only 7 hours diffe