# house of sand and fog

this house is for rent…..i need a place to live ….but, i will not rent this house….not because i wouldn’t  like living here in the dunes by the sea on the "outer banks"  of Carolina, but precisely because i would very much like living here…the sights and smells are the very ones of my youth on the nearby Virginia coast, just to the north…so i would feel at home….so much so that i fear i might let one day slide into the next and the next and the next….nothing wrong with that at all, but right now i have a lot on my mind….work to do…book ideas burning my poor brain alive…

we had a thread going not so long ago about talking about photo essays before they were done or even started…it seemed that most of us thought  that it is better to at least get started on a project before letting the "volcano blow" at the end of the bar…such is the case with me now…i am jazzed about something, tempted to talk, but i will wait….probably because it will be one month before i can even start photographing ….a whole lot of wine could "git spilt" on the ground in that time…

so, instead of writing about  projects themselves , i will ramble a bit about the "spaces" and "circumstances" from whence our ideas cometh….for example,  both of my sons live in nearby beach towns…..both of them, as filmmakers, work much as i do…"leavin’ on a jetplane" to their "jobs"….there is one big difference: they come home to small town chit chat and  i come back to new york hyperglide…

i fantasize their lifestyles….my sons tell me i could never "make it" in these towns by the sea…they both tell me i would be bored quickly…my friends tend to think the same ("city boy" one says)….can this be true???  if it is true, i hate to admit it, because right now with the winter sidelight filtering through the pines and the soft afternoon breeze and the cardinals chirping  away, i feel quite at peace and loving every second of it…hmmmm, what would be the breaking point i wonder???

now, as a "homeless" man, i am also a free man….free to choose, once again, where to live….it seems ironic that the sense of "free choice" is a whole lot  more exhilarating than  the  sense of  "having no place to go" is potentially depressing!!….but, that is just me…..nomadic  by nature…get me out of the rain and anyplace can be home…and when i am  "down and out" i  think like a wild animal…my senses  are sharp….eyes keen…natural high……clear head….ideas  flow…survival instinct adrenaline rush maxed out….too  comfy and maybe the dreaded one day sliding into another into another another  would  manifest itself….but, i am not sure  sure of this….i just imagine this…

what about you?  do your best ideas come under stress  and out of necessity or  do you  need to be  in familiar comfortable space and without "worry" to roll out your "idea of the year"  ???

#### 280 Responses to “house of sand and fog”

• David,
My best ideas often come from ‘chewing’ on certain material or a fascination for a long time, put it in the back of my mind while working on other stuff, and paying attention in the moments in between, a kind of revisiting an idea, one time diving in deep, the other moment looking at it more from a shallow point of view.

When it pops up to the surface it’s often simple and ready to take on..

Living in an urban environment I often think about how that speeds up your life, not necessarily being a bad or a good thing. David, do you never think that life could be simpler, with less distraction in a small village?

Joost

• Dylan

Hi David…I’d have to say both. I do love the ideas that seem to come from solitary introspection, yet (and I hate to admit this) I rarely get those ideas going without the worry of an immediate problem, or need. But the solitude and books always seem to be a form of artistic pregnancy, and then the worry and need are the pains of that birth.

Maybe its time you come to the West-coast, you could be the beach bum and city boy all in one town…and the first beers are on me, Senior.

~Dylan

• Hi David,
Your post is on point for me. I am living in a wonderful house in the middle of nowhere. I spend a lot of time editing portfolios, making prints, etc., but I am not out making new work on a daily basis. I am not on the go, simply because it is so easy not to be.

Staying home and comfortable is an addiction. If you want to be out and about, you have to break the addiction.

I’m wondering how I would do in NY. I haven’t been there for 30 years, but for street photography, is there a better place?

Could I stand all the visual onslaught? Would having a tiny space keep me out and shooting?

Certainly is good to hear someone else with a voice in these matters.

Remember my show on the 16th. You could come on the way to Mexico.

Otherwise, see you in March, hopefully.

Ciao
Michael

• I’m writing away back in “INCOMPLETE” still….David, I hope you will look again at my Alex Webb question…

Yes, (to answer what was asked at the end of SURVEY…) as much as I think one list is the way to go, most do not go back once there is a new subject started. That is something to think about…how to layout the page so that there is one area for all conversations while allowing several topics to be “ON” at once…HOW???

Cool house…

If I knew under which circumstances my best ideas came I would try to recreate those circumstances always!! :) In other words there doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. I am more wired and energized when I’m stressed so perhaps more prone to good ideas but as far as executing the ideas, the less stress the better.

As far as “city” vs “country” I am leaning towards country with the upcoming move to Santa Fe. It’s a much smaller town than San Diego but I find I actually DO more there because it’s all so accessable (mostly by walking) whereas in San Diego I will often stay home rather than hassle with the traffic and crowds. Quality of life is where it’s at…whatever that means to you.

• “do your best ideas come under stress and out of necessity or do you need to be in familiar comfortable space and without “worry” to roll out your “idea of the year”

My ideas need to come out of a desire to accomplish something that is meaningful to me.

A little self-imposed stress might help, but external stresses definitely detract.

Being in a familiar environment can also help, usually while in the shower, or lying in bed just before falling asleep.

BTW, David- I like the house. I think you should go for it and prove your sons wrong.

• House of Sand and Fog
man, I loved that movie, Ben Kingsley and Jennifer Connelly, superb.
Nice photo! reminds me of Todd Hido’s work.
Its so bitchen to have that freedom, I envy you. I think you should drift, my problem is that I get to attached to all the useless junk that accumulates and may have some lingering emotional attachment, I am like my mom and dad, we have stacks of auto magazines from the 70’s, all the toys our familly ever played with, just piles of stuff back home in Scotland, talk about anchors. all that stuff, its just overwhelming.
stay footloose man, that is beautiful.
maybe just to have some kind of base would be nice, but I guess thats how it starts.
anyway, I am constantly stressing over the bills, no investment stocks here, or 401k, or trust funds, constantly scrambling, i dont think that makes for a creative mind set,

• Bj A. Patino

“there is one big difference: they come home to small town chit chat and i come back to new york hyperglide…i fantasize their lifestyles….my sons tell me i could never “make it” in these towns by the sea…they both tell me i would be bored quickly…my friends tend to think the same (‘city boy’ one says)”

role reversal? sounds like you’re the son and they’re your father :-) do you exercise regularly david? i mean i can’t imagine you not having some athletic regimen. with that kind of energy you must have a “container” that holds up well. me, i find myself staying home more often, getting too comfy at times, and getting sluggish, physically and mentally. so i guess you’re right not to stay in that gorgeous house. may i? haha

bj

• I prefer to let ideas just drift in with the fog. If I’m forcing the ideas out, I can tell, and I suppose if I can tell, everyone else can, too.

• I haven’t the foggiest notion about where my ideas come from.

• Andrew Golding

My ideas are not related to being necessarily comfortable or in new environments, they tend to come more from looking at work already done and trying to work out what were my reasons for being inspired in such a direction. The whole thing then tends to work into an idea or a theme that is then put into the back of the mind for future opportunities. Lots of things stay on the back burner, others gnaw away and may eventuate into something worthwhile.

• Nice picture, David.
Well, I could write pages and pages on this one. And in fact I have!… in other places and at other times, including most recently on my website at http://www.telcomplus.satkins/photo6.html
There are undoubtedly some people who thrive best in very bustling urban environments, and some who are either overwhelmed or bored by all that manmade noise and only do well surrounded by open space, trees, rocks, water, and wind. But I suspect most of us would be happiest with a mix of the two, so it becomes a question of balance and that balance is not only different for each person but different at different seasons and times in the same life. To be always in motion, living out of a backpack or duffel bag, is an exhilirating freedom in some ways and stimulates the imagination, but there are so many kinds of creativity that can only come to real fruition when one has a settled place full of tools and resources… maybe it is just ‘stuff’ but if you’re a cook, an artist, a craftsman, a multi-instrumentalist musician, or a darkroom photographer, you need to have your tools around you, easily accessible and relatively safe from theft and damage, and a space to work in.
But of course, a house full of ‘stuff’ then can become a prison, a maze of mirrors that is always reminding us of who we were instead of freeing us to discover who we could become… If I stay in my own apartment or house or shack too long, I start going round and round and round.. just taking a long walk somewhere I haven’t been before can often break this spell, temporarily at least.
So finding a personal balance is the key, and the balance point for me at least is always shifting. But the days when I felt at home living in giant, buzzing cities seem to be long over. Do I miss the crowds, the excitement, the spectacle? Of course, and often.
David, you’ll probably only discover how much of a ‘city boy’ you’ve become after you leave the city semi-permanently. Remember the old song, ‘How Can I Miss You If You Don’t Go Away?’

Sidney

• Whoops!
Got the address wrong! Here it is:
http://www.telcomplus.net/satkins/photo6.html
Sorry!

Sidney

• Jason Hobbs

hi david,

that house looks great – i can well imagine living in a place like that. but then again i can also imagine getting bored, being away from the buzz of the city, the place i have lived my whole life. is the grass really greener in the country side?

as for ideas – i think mine can arrive out of nowhere, some well formed from the outset, others are fragments that need careful cultivation. i think time frames can play an important role here. the above i would say applies best to my personal projects, where i have the luxury of time. if i’m photographing for a commission then things can, at times, be very different. arriving to make a portrait on a days notice with only fifteen minutes to get the job done certainly gets the adrenaline going. sometimes i like to apply a little self imposed stress, give myself a deadline and for myself to stick to it. at other times, being chilled out and letting my mind wander where ever it wants leads me to some very interesting places. so, i suppose both “stress” and “comfort” can apply.

so david, what about living in london?

Jason.

• ok David: U rent the house and Marina, Dima and I shall live in it and feed u lots of ideas ;)))))…..

a small thought about ideas: for me, nothing predicts or allows for them, or not, just only this:

to be open to that which sifts and drifts (your fog and your sand) and lifts down upon you, to be open to what may come, taken, run upon or turned aside….

no solutions, only constant changes…to be open, even when we are closed….

running
b

• We join spokes together in a wheel,
but it is the center hole
that makes the wagon move.

We shape clay into a pot,
but it is the emptiness inside
that holds whatever we want.

We hammer wood for a house,
but it is the inner space
that makes it livable.

We work with being,
but non-being is what we use.
-Tao Te Ching, Chapter 11 (Stephen Mitchell, trans.)

fuck the poetry: ;)

good single malt and a good walk (cool damp air) seems to often do it too, for me ;))

b

• david ukaleq b.

Hi David,

This is off topic but do you have an idea of when the single pics will be visible? I see that it is “coming soon” on the website…

Cheers,
David

• steve

I moved to Barcelona as a way to escape that numbness, the slow trickle of day after day… It’s what got me thinking about photography again. Not an easy move, but definitely feeling more ideas and a drive, and yes ‘alive’… more accurately “focus”…more aware of what i’m doing (actually, in photography,.. what i’m doing wrong is more the point). And a new awareness of time, but not just ticking by, but a hundred thoughts at once… got to learn Spanish, need to take at least one good photo (arrghh!)….need to juggle my clients in another country etc….but all ultimately keeping my head active..and that’s what keeps my ideas flowing. still freak out about not having “roots” firmly planted though (spoke to Bob about that), but I kind of do have them… just not in one place.

• Kicking back in a hotel room at someone else’s expense with a cold beer is where I like to churn ideas in my head, having just had a long lingering dip in the hotel pool. You know? Well smart.

• Bob,

Great that you included Stephen Mitchell here. Good quote.
Do you know him by chance? I’ve never met him but know his wife Byron Katie.

• Cathy :))>..

I dont know Stephen, but love his translations, always (love his Rilke especially and his version of the Tao)…i like his poetry as well :))…and his prose simmered too :))…

cheers
running
bob

• “We hammer wood for a house,
but it is the inner space
that makes it livable.”

Man, Bob, how do you do that — find the exact right quote for the question? That’s beautiful.

I was in the habit of moving often — either changing job or changing address, year after year. Then I had kids and have been stable (superficially) for years. Now at 1.5 years from the final graduation, I’m already checking out cities…

My best ideas come out of restlessness and lots of thought. So far, anyway.

Joan

• I think my best ideas come when my mind is clear. Under pressure or not pressure, my best work or ideas come when I have had some quality alone, quiet time. No cell phones, email-people bugging me you know what I mean. I come to learn that being nomadic is okay. I had a great house and all that goes with it. Due to major health problems-which have been healed I sold my house and sort became nomadic in Minneapolis. I took off for Kenya, then to China, then back to Kenya, then back home. I’m not really tied to anything. I love it. I have the ability to pack up and leave permanently with only a few months notice. Few people can do that. Houses and possesions aren’t really a big deal. Like money they come and go. But life is short-don’t miss out on what’s going on in the world. Enjoy the experience David. God Bless!

• BOBB SAID:
“…We hammer wood for a house,
but it is the inner space
that makes it livable.

fuck the poetry:…”

PANOS SAYS:
“…how can you NOT love this guy???…”
Hey Bob, you are killing the tough gangsta in me now…
I love you man…

I dont know “how much” David pays you to stay on this blog…
all i know is that you deserved it….
peace

• STEVE SAID:
“…I moved to Barcelona as a way to escape that numbness, the slow trickle of day after day… It’s what got me thinking about photography again. Not an easy move,……”

Hey Steve try to move to L.A… then you will see what a really
“NOT AN EASY MOVE”… means…
You will “think and act GONZO around here”…. because your life
will end up so crazy… to the point that when you EVEN photograph
only yourself, most of the times… is more than enough!!!!!…
In other words… :”…so much will happen to you”…

… and this is how i answer DAVID’S QUESTION about “the house of sand and fog”….
peace , again

• SIDNEY:???

Why not black and white….?…
or totally … MEDIUM FORMAT??? for those amazing landscapes???
The last thing i can blame you of, is laziness…!
You made it all the way up there… You touched Tibet!!!
( you touched my heart, that’s for sure)…
but why not a “punch in my face”…. Why so safe and apologetic?
I got desperate for a second…. I need to see more of those holy places… dont just tease me….
peace… ( im impressed of your travelling…!!!)

http://www.telcomplus.net/satkins/photo6.html

• hey DAVID , i forgot to say i’m glad you didnt rent that garbage…
its ready to fall apart…. when you come over…. the THIRD day ,
i will take you for a tour around “Hollywood”…
To be specific… i will take you to the “UNIVERSAL STUDIOS”…
You will witness the “house” that they shot “PSYCHO”…
… you know… my favorite director of all times:
“ALFRED HITCHCOCK”….

anyways… that’s how the “rental by the beach” looked like…
jesus!!!!!… maestro…

By the way… great picture!
peace

• Hmmmmm, let me correct myself:PANOS ASKS A STUPID QUESTION????
Why not black and white….?… ”

i did a mistake… sorry.
This question is not stupid… it’s annoying!

• IRRELEVANT:
“… Seattle… is my FAVORITE city in a
America..
I wish i had a friend over there! i wanna visit soon!…” panos wanders!

• PEOPLE…. MY LATE SHOW IS NOW OVER….
Now my contribution, repeated….
Please visit my last “visit” to the movies below!

http://blog.panosfotografia.com/

peace out

• steve

Panos,

I can only imagine living in LA. I moved from small town Australia to London 6 years ago. That was a real eye opener for sure. Barcelona much more chilled, but a new place and that always makes me think more creatively. I think this debate has been on this forum before…it’s not about the place right? i.e moving has just given me a good kick in the arse to get more motivated, but not the source of my inspiration (a lot of my ideas for Photo/design whatever, could be shot anywhere).

s.

• david alan harvey

STEVE…

yes, some version this this discussion was up before…this time, i was going more for the circumstances of “stress” rather than physical space, although the two are tied i suppose…

CATHY…

MICHAEL LILLIE…

thanks….”houses and possessions…like money, they come and go”….so true….that is, unless that is what you value the most and “go for it” in that manner…donald trump will most likely always have a roof over his head…but, his photographs are terrible!!!

BOB….

yes, how do you come up with just the right quote at just the right time???? and how much DO i have to pay you to stay on this forum??

mostly, when are we going to meet?? i am around until around the 14th of this month and then again after march 10th…what is your schedule like???

oh yes, i meant to mention that i am going to put all of your pictures from your story up…i simply did not have the space before to do so….i want everyone to see the “context” of your work….

STEVE…

yes yes, i have thought a lot about Barcelona….i have worked there so many times and it seems just about perfect…the sea, the climate, mountains nearby and good coastal excursions up and down….only problem is: party all nite long!!! hmmmm, how do they survive???

PANOS…

ever see Hitchcock’s “The Rope” ??? one long shot..i love Alfred too…

yes, i like rainy Seattle…mostly the motel/hotel on the sound, the 50’s style Edgewater Inn (unless it has been torn down or renovated)…at the Edgewater you can fish from your room and see David Bowie (as Ziggy Stardust) or Cat Stevens walking down the hall…i guess that dates me a bit…

also, Tom (not Tim) Robbins, “Even Cowgirls Get the Blues”, hangs on one of those islands in the sound with several of his ex-wives all living happily together….hmmmmm, now there is a writer!!!

missing Kurt Cobain…..

cheers, david

• Hi David,

Your question relates well to me in its timing but I cannot answer it yet. What is important is that I will soon be taking the test! In four weeks, I am leaving all that I know and love behind to travel to the island of Roatan. I am preparing as much as possible, making contacts, planning tours, acquiring a second camera etc. In the comfort of my home, I am beginning to imagine the freedom that my unknown surroundings will soon provide to me. This is an entirely new arena for me. I have not travelled often and never without a family member.
The city girl goes to the country within a different country. I can hardly contain my excitement.
Last week I had a dream…I woke up excited and began to explain it to my three teenagers as they dressed for school. I explained that I had been dreaming about someone blowing bubbles….they laughed and asked what is so exciting about that…I tried to make them understand the importance of the symbolism of the bubble…the islands…explaining that it may not be the best symbol..but it is important because I am already looking for symbols…preparing..keeping my mind open..my eyes looking…
I am a planner..organized to a fault…and the last thing I want to do is come back home with a bunch of shit shots to submit as my next essay…god the pressure…i am loving the challenge…

• oh….definitely stress brings out my energy and creativity. Like your words indicate, if everything was going great in a peaceful locale, I would definitely vegetate and procrastinate…..well, forever.

• david alan harvey

NANCY…

enjoy Roatan!!!…..how can you not?? and visit the other nearby islands too…please send us a link to your new work as soon as you have some…

PANOS..

that “house of sand and fog” is not really falling down…i was surprised at the distortion of that lens….not an “architecture” lens…or was it me?? (also a comment to you above..and we will try to reverse the order of the comments as per your suggestion…i would like that better too)

DAVID UKALEQ B…

i will try to post those this week ….

JASON…

still thinking about London….weather and expense still a factor, but there are others!!!

BJ A PATINO…

i showed my son bryan your comment…we both laughed!!! there was such an element of truth to it!!!

SIDNEY….

you have great insight….balance…yes, balance is the key….and yet and yet, so easy to get “out of balance”…THIS is a full time job, to stay balanced…so easy to “slide” one way or the other…

PAUL…

Motel 6??? what kind of beer???

DYLAN…

you know i am a California boy by birth ..always ready to head west…..are you in L.A.??? anyway, yes we will meet…i may drive out….love love the “road trip” concept….

JOAN…

“stable superficially”….now, that is the subject of a new post at some point…do you think Americans are more “on the move” than most other cultures??? most of my friends, and family, always think they will move somewhere else someday….

cheers, david

• david alan harvey

T.S.SULLIVAN….

i went to your site…very nice work!!! and great quote from one of my earliest influences, Harry Callahan…

cheers, david

• David said: “…do you think Americans are more “on the move” than most other cultures???”

I think those down-under take the prize there! Funny…back in my bigtime traveling Kerouac kind of days the vast majority of “foreigners” I ran into were New Zealanders and Aussies. At one point I remember wondering, “Jesus, is there anybody in your country right now?” No joke…they were EVERYWHERE!

I was proud to be with and amoung some of the best world travelers.

And speaking of being a California boy, David…It always struck me that San Francisco was the place for you. I know it is for me! Well, it will be one day.

• When it comes to dreams and where to lay your head at night nobody said it better than Victor Hugo. Koudelka used it as an intro to his “Exiles” book, perhaps the best photography book ever published. Here’s the quote:

“Exile is not a material thing,
it is a spiritual thing.
All the corners of the earth
are exactly the same.
And anywhere one can dream is good,
providing the place is obscure,
and the horizon is vast.”
—Victor Hugo

• David:

u dont have to pay me squat ;))))…just pleasure :))>..as for meeting, i’d hope it would have been feb, but saw ur schedule…can we shoot for May? (send me a note and when u wont be workshopping or “homeless”)…marina and i await, eagerly :))>..as for the other pics, no worries, not a priority for me, bigger fish to fry for this blog: give the others attention and all those other singles and stories: that would mean more to me :)))..

and lastly, i was a California child too (born in san diego), although grew up rootless, travling around the globe…

as my son wrote in song he wrote for my 40th:

“He’s bobby-bobby-bob
born in San Diego, raised in California,
He’s bobby-bobby-bop”

:))

running
b

• David
Exactly why I bought the farmhouse in Ireland…………..[while we were in Sicily!]
Currently a week a month there , lots of soul, lots of thought, lots of time to edit and plan [by this summer ALL my files and stuff will be there]
Another week a month here in the South of France, running the “other business”, great weather but the European California,very busy and not the quiet spot I moved to 15 years ago,
Remaining two weeks “on the road” working and photographing,e.g. November-Lisbon,December-Caribbean,January-Malta,this month-UK , March-Barcelona+Majorca etc.
Seems to work for me………..
I too am a “city boy” but can’t see going back to London [where it all started]or anywhere similar [I love Barcelona]apart from for the odd few days.
I really never thought I would hack it “in the country” but rural Ireland [for a week a month] is really good for the brain!
Answer therefore:country, city and everywhere else too!
Clive
p.s. The harder you work the luckier you get!

• Eric Espinosa

David and all-
I am still working on my first website and I have not gone live fully but I have started to gather some of my more recent work to share it with all. As usual, I need to do a much tigher edit of my work but this is just a start…. Would be great David if you have a chance to look at it and let me know what you think either on the Forum or private e-mail. I have posted pictures from the Easter processions in Sicily that you obviously have seen before….I have also posted more of the work that I did in the Cincinnati Over-the-Rhine ghetto. You also have a more complete overview of the project that I did on Reds fans (I had shared the start of this project with you before). Finally, I have also shared some really early work on other topics… Likely way too premature to share these but anyway…. I hope to hear what you think. The link is attached below. I hope it works. Glad to hear from all. Cheers, Eric

http://69.20.77.227/~eespinosa/main.php

• Heh, I have never felt I’ve had a choice about where I live. Maybe once I finish my studies. But I’d not stay far from a big city. Funny that Barcelona is mentioned so often, it looks like one of my few reasonable choices in Spain. After long holidays, though.

“donald trump will most likely always have a roof over his head… but, his photographs are terrible!!” – must be the best DAH quote ever

So, David, have you seen Donald’s snapshots?

• steve

David,

Yeah, my original post was about stress…shifting your life to another place..everything unknown, so much learn….so much uncertain (not about the place itself, more about the pressure). For me, it’s given a more focused energy. Stress keeps you thinking in different ways for sure.

S

• Before I moved to NYC, just under 3 years ago now, I lived on a little island in Maine..and I didn’t photograph. I baked pies, climbed mountains, walked to the post office to pick up mail with my beautiful dog daughter by my side, spent hours doing yoga and watching great films. And I made lots of pizza from scratch and played way too much scrabble. Now it’s me and the computer, or me and the camera, a really narrowed, yet expanded life.

I know that when I am balanced and happy with my surrounds, I don’t need to photograph. When I am searching and drawing joy from that, I do.

But i grew up first in an inner city for 10 years, then got moved to a sweet quiet oceanside -dry- town where everyone knows everyone. I guess i need both..ideally, it would be great to have a city place and a country place, but in reality, in shifts.

• Living in a country would be an ultimate punishment for me… I am a city person… I just have to be able to walk out of my home and see people, they are everywhere going about their own things… no real need to communicate at all times but just their presence is what matters…
Hell, why not, here are the words, taken out of context, but still, from Nick Cave…

“There is a town Where I was born
Far, far away Across the see

And in that town Where I was born
I would dream That one day
I would leave And cross the see

And now I live In this town
I walk these dark streets Up and Down
under a dark sky And I dream
That one day I’ll go back home

And so it goes
And so it seems…”

Song ‘There is a town’ from the album Nocturama

• Eric,

I have very fast internet connection but your images are loading for far too long… you got to do something about it if you want anyone to go through your site… I would love to see it

Best, Velibor

• David-

The real estate issue, the homelessness. Here is the place for you. Next to the train-tracks, easy commute to NYC, VA beach.
I think Nick Nichols considered this place before he took the country plunge.

At the foot of Monticello in the bend of the river.

http://www.historicwoolenmills.org/2007/12/sunday-remembered.html

Regards,

Bill

• Eric
This is a neonsky website correct?
I’m looking hard at moving my own site onto this platform. Would appreciate a dialogue on the pros and cons, probably best “offlist” to clive@clive-evans.com.
Anyone else here like to do the same-please do![Laura E-T,if you are here, really like what you have done with NS, can you give me some thoughts?]
Clive

• Eric Espinosa

Clive,
Yes it is indeed a neonsky website…Will be going live soon as I fix few things. I did look at several options myself but chose that provider, largely driven by the facts that I very much liked the site developed by Laura also and because I remembered that Lance made the point previously to David that that platform was great so I decided to give it a shot. I am certainly not an expert on websites but what I can say that that it did prove to be a very easy interface and would certainly recommend it.

Velidor, thanks for the feeback. I have realized that I posted some older pictures of mine taken in Cuba that were scanned and that were not at the right size so this is likely why this may take that long. This is helpful feedback and I will make sure I fix this shortly so that it does not frustrate all who want to check it out. Cheers, Eric

• Panos…

Not stupid questions at all. I agree that most of those pictures on the site are too safe, too detached, too post-cardy. If I could go back now, the pictures would be quite different! My lame excuse is I wasn’t a ‘serious’ photographer in those days, my motivations and goals in travelling or being outdoors were not primarily about taking pictures, and most of those ‘souvenir’ photos were taken with a tiny pocket point-and-shoot camera because it was lightweight, compact, and cheap. (My favorites were the Olympus RD in the late 70s and the Olympus Mu in the mid 90s). Medium format? Back in the 80s and early 90s I used to salivate over the Pentax 6X7 in store windows but both body and lenses were always way, way out of my budget range, and when I finally got my hands on one, I realized I never wanted to lug it up those mountains. As for B+W, while I of course appreciate and admire good B+W, my mother was a painter, I studied painting before I owned a camera, and for me color was always what it was about…

Sidney

• DAVID:

This latest post had more relevance than I thought… my family and I are currently between houses, but what really caught my eye was your reference to constantly moving forward over fear of backsliding
and the balance of exhilaration over potential depression (at least, as I read it.)

I was looking forward to meeting you (and Jonas and Chris) in Oslo, as I had made it into the workshop… I was even given a bit of advice concerning the whole experience by Frank Arisman of the ICP whom I met at a gallery opening here last Thursday night… seemed everything was moving my way.

Then yesterday morning I found out from the Norwegian embassy that there was no way I was going to get a visa… passport complications and the like; SHOT DOWN!

Took a while for it to sink in, but I decided to ride it out and look forward to what I am going to get done here then on my own turf rather than get depressed over not being able to make a workshop… found myself in a frenetic planning phase all of a sudden: “survival instinct adrenaline rush maxed out”, as you put it.

Hope I am not in denial.

Hopefully I will meet you in another setting sometime.

L.

• Alfred Hitchcock’s: “The Rope”…!!!
74 min non stop- one shot… Until he run out of film… Fades out when they open the coffin… How brilliant comparing to the new super tight super edited Hollywood approach… An actor today needs only to memorize up to 30 seconds of script… Bullshit!

I also miss Curt or Kurt or Kurdt Cobain alot…
David Bowie… He is younger now than ever before…
O.k let me get in the car and I will start the day…
goodmorning everybody from the warzone L.A
peace for a second…

• Mike Halminski

In a way, David, your sons may be right about your living at the beach, but only you know the real answer of when and where your “love shack” will be. Look at me. I’ve been an “emerging photographer” for over 30 years, and still looking for ways to keep going and make ends meet. I’m laid back, slack and have sea salt in my veins. I love hanging out here on the Outer Banks. It is my studio. Your studio is the world.

It takes me a long time to bring personal projects to fruition, but I think I respond well to jobs when assigned to me in my realm. I don’t travel much, but enjoy it when I do.

We always love your visits (especially the surprise ones), and would cherish your presence in the neighborhood. But like you say, right now you are free, and have wonderful projects in store for the future.

This blog has been a great way to keep up with your unique, interesting life.

As an aside, too bad you didn’t buy land here 25 years ago, but then again, if this economy stays on it’s present course, you’ll be able to scarf up a pretty good deal! In the meantime, mi casa es su casa.

• Hmmm, writing here from gray Seattle. Warms my heart yet confuses my mind when I hear about how much people love this city. Grass is always greener sort of thing. I’ve threatened to leave for good many times (mostly to NY) but things keep keeping me here and now as I’m getting older I’m trying my best to just chill and BE with it.

Seattle is quite provincial in many ways. The photography market here sucks to say the least. Things and people move slowly (the damp, the ghosts?) to the point of maddenning frustration at times. But summer is glorious when and if it ever comes. We have amazing Asian food and community. World class breakdancers and rock bands. It’s a strange town. I feel both blessed and cursed by it.

David, the Edgewater has been remodeled and is now mostly a place to stay for tourists waiting to take a cruise. Kinda sad I guess…

If anyone would like to look me up if ever in Seattle please! I have a great little studio in Pioneer Square downtown and am always up for a visit.

And yes, I too miss Kurt. Strange “working’ with him practically everyday (it seems at times). Too many dead people in my archives…

• Funny, I think a lot matters on stimulus rather than the speed or pace of things around you. If hectic, I am sure some great idead come up, but also many that won’t stand after a while. So, probably good ideas, at the end, may come as much from a meditative, calm state as from under pressure.

Actually, we should be quite concrete about this topic. I wish I could see the whole 9/11 “democratic” exhibit. But somehow, my feeling is that here was a moment of great pressure, and I see what the agency photographers came with (I say agency, meaning well-known) and somehow, correct me, none of them made great stuff out of it. Then, you have Mermelstein, who (I think) has this day in and day out relationship with new york, and for me, his shot with the seated sculptures under ashes, very much a non-action, almost meditative shot, is an absolutely great shot, far above anyone else.

To take that shot, I imagine you need to be less reactive to events, and more to the inner eye. I could write for hours about this shot, this is to me very very great photography, responsive in an unique way to what happened that day. Then nothing happens in it…Or does it?

I also think, secundo and totally off-topic, that this was the day maybe where photo-journalism, the day it matters so much to take photos and be a journalist, faded under the fulgurance of unskilled cellphone and snap shooting, who also told the story, albeit with less genius than Mermelstein, of what it was to be there then.

I may be all wrong, though “democracy” of photography seems to point I am not the only seeing how the importance of photography that day did not rely on professionals, on the skills pyramide.

Then again, what do I know?

• Hi everyone, I am back online finally… Glad to check back in.

Scotland is my new dream… But that does not belong here now, or does it? Talking about the perfect place… I found mine: Loch Sunath!

And I always thought I was a city-person (Sao Paulo, Rio, Frankfurt (too small)… Maybe I need both: Winter in Scotland and Summer in NY/Paris ;) Sounds like a dream.

“what about you? do your best ideas come under stress and out of necessity or do you need to be in familiar comfortable space and without “worry” to roll out your “idea of the year” ”

Easy: my sleepless nights will one of these days drive me crazy, but they are the seemingly neverending source of great ideas. Those “wow”-ideas. Unfortunately I am too tired during the days, to go after most of them… :)

It is a real problem. Sometimes I’d much rather sleep. I get sick of not sleeping, but I fill up my little notebooks, that constantly lay next to me at nights, with idea after idea. And … fortunately I am usually still thrilled, when I read them the next day.
But it is of no use, it is too much. And I should sleep.
But nothing helps. As soon as I lay down and close my eyes, the mashinery starts to work. I do not recommend this to anyone.

I can work perfectly under stress and solve problems as they come. But I then rely more on previous experiences… Creativity just fills in the gaps. That is more than enough for the storyboards etc. And tiredness does not get in the way.

Other than that, boredom helps me to get the brain going. During the time I was painting my huge canvasses, I normally would have had 7-10 new ideas for paintings while I was finishing one. So it was clear that I would never be able to paint all of them. It drove me crazy! So I quit painting. And I have never been bored since ;)

I got me a little dog 3 weeks ago. A little Parson Jack Russell that can join me during my Germany-Tours. I do not think boredom will be an issue ever again… And as to sleepless nights. Getting out 3 times at night to let him out is at least not so difficult for me as for others ;)

So long,
Lassal

• DAVID,
thank you, thanks and thanks again … Also
MICHAEL or tech guru… Thank you…
for willing to reverse the order of the comments…
new ones first- old ones at the bottom ..
its not about aesthetics or laziness!!!
I wouldn’t mind at all if I have to scroll down
for 40 or 50 comments … But here we are
Unsafe, impossible to scroll all the way to
the bottom…
don’t do it for my safety… but for all those
soccermoms out there that they drive the big
mastodonts- TAHOES and escalades out there…
with their valuable cargos…
they don’t deserve to be rearended by the ” public enemy no1″
peace now… Gotta use the side streets, gotta get of this
freeway

• David,

I’ve seen those Divided Soul photographs so many times, and yet they still slay me! Brilliant stuff.

Can’t wait to see what else gets put up there!

Thanks.

-M

• DAVID,
GOD DAMN… HIP HOP 2, you have a picture(NO:2) with
COMMON SENSE AND KANYE WEST….. my peops…
yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

• Lee Guthrie

David,

I find that the best ideas are the ones that come out of nowhere like upon waking or just before I go to sleep. Maybe a friend will make a simple statement like “You could do a show of your work in your house” and it starts me thinking about it and then things begin to fall in place. I also notice that ideas that I don’t spend time discussing with others before I start the project are more likely to come to fruition.

I remember some months back we were all discussing how strange it was that we don’t photograph the places we live, even though we live in fabulous places like Paris or Maui.

I began shooting out of my bedroom window and off of my lana’i and since then I have collected some astounding photos. What it taught me was that there is always something just waiting for you to notice and that saying you are bored with shooting where you live is due to your lack of imagination and attention and laziness.

I also notice that the best ideas reveal themselves very quietly, and so perfectly timed that the idea becomes reality with very little effort. When I struggle and sweat and worry and talk too much about something it usually ends up not being what I am supposed to be doing.

Lee

• Ahhh…The galleries are coming together. Nice!

You know what I see in the Divided Soul and Hip Hop images?
COMPLETE, as opposed to incomplete images.
They are often IN FOCUS! At least much of the image…
They TELL A STORY!

Go David. YEAH!!!! :))

• CATHY… I think (not sure)… that you just…
INSULTED DAVID… with the above comment…
I see exactly the opposite??? i see INCOMPLETE….!!??
You think is easy to get in the way ( right in their face)…
of “common” or “kanye”… or the go-go girls with the money in their boobs… not easy at all… sometimes… it could be seriously dangerous… people “snap”, especially in …. ah anyways…
“FOCUS” and “COMPLETE”… or incomplete has nothing to do with each other….
People, correct me if im wrong
peace

• Sidney, by the way you are a LOVELY person….
Now i admire you even more
peace

• Panos,

NO, NO, NO I definitely do NOT mean anything negative in the least by my comment to David about his work being COMPLETE. It is a COMPLIMENT!!!

I’m not saying that his images don’t leave anything to the imagination…they haven’t said it ALL but they are saying SOMETHING which is a lot more than many of the “incomplete” images we have been discussing a few topics back….(The term came from a comment Herve made which started the topic)

Just one persons opinion but to ME (and I can only speak about my experience) the work in these galleries is much more (fill in the blank…exciting, provacative, inspirational, meaningful, etc…) than an out of focus dog or something along those lines.

and NO I am not saying this is easy to do…I believe this is much more difficult than “incomplete.”

Perhaps David’s images are incompletely complete? Or completely incomplete??? Whatever…I think they’re great.

ps Panos did you see my comments to you about our meeting at the end of “incomplete?”

• Hi Cathy,

the term I used was “not-quiteness”, deliberately less precise than “incomplete”, a word David chose, to start the debate on “evolution of seeing”.

• CATHY… i’m playing… here
All i was trying to do is … create some “ANTICIPATION” for this FORUM.. regarding our potential “meeting” at Alex Webbs’s…
this friday… the whole forum can’t wait to see in photos…
the whole story… but now… its gone..
I gave it all away… because i didn’t wanna hurt your feelings…
Anyways..
back to the blog!
I was kidding, … of course your intentions are… lets say 99% on the positive side…. i hope i will make it on Friday… not that anyone gives a s**t about it… but just to say hi, and snap some pics…
peace again!

• Herve,

Sorry for the misquote…but you did say SOMETHING which started the conversation…this also was meant as a compliment :))

Panos,

If you’re bringing a camera Friday and planning to photograph US???? Or ME??? Forget about it!!! Let’s just say I look like Demi Moore without all the surgery and call it a day :)) As critical as I am of my photographs I am even more critical if I’m IN them! :))

What about your girlfriend’s birthday??? I thought you couldn’t make it??? HELP!!!!! I was trying to do you a favor by telling you about Alex Webb…now look at the trouble I’ve gotten myself into! You said you were jealous that I was going to do a workshop with him…I was only trying to share good times with you!!! NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
You’re not really coming, are you?

• CATHY + PANOS

Keep your eyes open for a girl hopping around on crutches. I’ll be there too.

• CATHY… i was debating with myself… but now….
YOU REALLY MAKE ME WANNA GO…. let me wait till tomorrow though….!morning, when my mind hopefully (dont bet on this) will be less hazy….

Now , my anticipation to meet you… is …. i already forgot about Alex Webb or anybody else….

PANOS MEETS CATHY!… how cool….
and you wish this event to stay “unrecorded”????
How UNFAIR for the rest of the blog-viewers…. i mean commenters…whateverists( me included)….
So this time YOU WILL BE PHOTOGRAPHED!

People of this FORUM!!!!…QUESTION:
Is it fair,for a great photographer like CATHY to censor an idiot like panos… and tell him not to shoot or not to shoot????
people get involved…
what if my next project is : “photographing photographers”….
is it fair for other photographers to block me from doing this???
Cathy what do you think?

• ANNA ,sorry , i was typing too fast…!
Hey how are you doing?… why crutches…
what did you break?… if i may ask?… also wishing you a quick recovery

• broke my baby toe. was cruising around the house in socks and crashed into a piece of furniture.

i can hop and photograph at the same time. perhaps we can both make non-quiteness pictures of cathy… :)

• I hear you Anna… it so funny how David brings so many together…
By the way… Cathy & Anna… let me tell you what im gonna wear for that night… Actually let me call “rodeo drive” first…
It’s a red carpet night… after all…! it’s L.A.. glam…
One thing i know i’ll be wearing a cologne called “Chronic”
from the famous french designer dr.Dre….
and a huge large format camera 25′ by 60′ ( or “panos” format )..
just like a FLAVA FL…. CLOCK… hanging around my neck…
trust me… you wont be able to miss me…
“pirate” style…. & of course always… my huge “Hunter’s” sunglasses…?
cant wait….
I already called couple “paparazzo’s” friends of mine!
Early saturday morning please dont forget to check on my blog…
it will be a post called EXTRA-EXTRA… with all the
“behind the scenes”
Ladies and Gents… welcome to Los Angeles

• :D That meeting of Panos, Cathy & Anna HAS to be photographed!!

About David’s question, seems like he was speaking my words. “When I am down and out I think like a wild animal… my senses are sharp… eyes keen… natural high… clear head… ideas flow…”. That’s exactly how it works with me. I need action, I need movement, I need Life to feel ALIVE.

Like Steve, my roots are in different places. And if I let one day slide into the next and the next and the next, then all my senses get numb. Definitely, I need action.

Liam, so soul-destroying that stupid thing about the visa. I’m right now fighting to get some visas for african people involved in a project I’m working. It is amazing to discover how many obstacles exist in this crazy world….

• david alan harvey

LIAM….

i had not even THOUGHT about a visa…maybe i am not going either!!!!

ALL…

somebody pleeeeeeeeeeeeze get the shot in l.a. at the alex webb talk…should i warn alex?????

CHARLES….

sorry to hear about the Edgewater Inn…sort of figured that it somehow could not be as before…

PANOS..CATHY…

maybe someday you will see my slide show with the Common track to it…gonna happen this spring…yea, cathy did insult me, but she did not mean to….laughing, but those pictures are simple and complete i suppose…hey, i took pics just for those guys…not for me, not for you…just for them…when my man Uptown is signing books and hangin with Snoop and Cube and Common etc. that will be so so cool…by the way, Uptown is recovering nicely from the four bullet holes put in him last month…AND, both of you please read his “Struggle”…the last one in the book…read it 10 times…

LASSAL…

welcome back!! so much has happened since you have been gone…we missed you!!! anyway, catch up a bit, get some sleep ..

BILL EMORY…

my oh my, i looked at that place 10 years ago….i think it would take about 3 million dollars to renovate it, but sure would be cool when it was done!!!

ok, running, need coffee, breakfast ..back later

cheers, david

• David, I doubt you’ll have as much trouble as I did… I think Africa is more what troubles them than anything else… I came up against a whole list of countries that make jumping through hoops for a visa seem like an Olympic event, all down to the South African passport…

The only place where it was less of an issue for me was one year when I got stopped in Heathrow; but that was only because my Irish name raised a few more eyebrows than my nationality; Liam Lynch was a notorious IRA leader during the post 1916 war and the Civil War, and it seems the English are still not over their Irish issues.

PANOS CATHY:

Yes, we have to see these images happen!

L.

• RE David’s main question about stress, comfort, ideas, etc.:

“It will be easy to forget your vision and purpose once you have fine clothes, fast horses, and beautiful women. You will be no better than a slave, and you will surely lose everything.

–Genghis Khan

• Game on! Thank goodness Anna will be there tomorrow to make it a group event. Anyone else from the LA area planning to attend? Wrobert?

Panos I am not trying to stop you from taking photographs. I was just kidding…your shots are not exactly “glamorous,” not like Annie Leibowitz…but feel free to shoot away. Don’t know if I’ll bring my camera or not…it will be a surprise! I guess I MUST so we can all photograph each other but after the lecture is over my workshop meets so I won’t be able to “hang” unless we do it before 7:30.

DAVID, I am truly sorry if my comment insulted you, intentional or not. I really don’t see what is negative about stating there are elements of the image in focus and that you are saying something…how could that be bad??? There is still mystery, there is much left for the viewer to think about…but there is also something there to chew on…to enjoy…to keep me looking at the image for more than a second…what’s so bad about that???

• That just freaked me out…when I posted I was the last comment. As of this second the latest comments are on top. Good job Michael! (I am assuming…)

Panos, by “chronic” cologne are you talking about the skunky scent? :))

• simply Goodmorning everybody …
let me wake my right side and let’s play
peace

• david alan harvey

CATHY….

please please , you must know i was just teasing!!! i knew that you were not insulting me!! those photographs in “Living Proof” are totally “straight” and intended to be that way….some subject matter lends itself to one approach, one to another…straight was the only way to go (for me) for this book….for a few minutes i had the crazy idea of flying to l.a. just to cover this “event”…when is it?? tomorrow?? hmmmmmmm

cheers, david

• yeahhhhhhhh
bravo michaellllllllll
damn someone is working out there…
bravo David, bravo Michael…new stuff always on the TOP

Harvey you are not just talk..
you are a man of your word… Not that I didnt know…
I can’t wait for tomorrow !!!!

• DAVID,,,
yes come over… Let’s do this …
I’m putting new sheet in your bed right now…
let’s have a David Harvey after party at my home…
Everyone welcome… Now you talking…
peace

• A Dissenting View

This may make me very unpopular in some quarters, but I feel strongly that posting the comments in reverse order is a TERRIBLE idea!
Do you read from the bottom up in an individual post? No. Do you read the comments in reverse order? Maybe… but I prefer my movies to run forwards rather than backwards, and I’d rather read things in the order they’re posted. And if you want to comment, you still have to scroll all the way down to the bottom… So, if you’te actually following the dialogue and reading the comments and then posting, you’re moving down, then up, then down, then up, then down…
So how many readers and posters to this blog really think that this is a good idea? Please, everybody, speak out… if I am really vastly outnumbered, then I’ll keep my mouth shut. But let’s hear from the masses after they’ve actually tried this foolishness…

By all means, try to number the comments. That makes much more sense!

Sidney

• DAVID, YOU’VE A WHOPPING 33 HOURS TO GET HERE.
YOU CAN PULL THAT OFF EASY.

• Sidney, I do agree with you.

Now, it’s merely scroll up instead of down, and very….Not quite! :-)))

• Sidney,

I don’t think the comment will affect your popularity at all. :))
I understand your logic…we still have to scroll to post.

I don’t have a strong opinion either way but if numbering the comments will accomplish the same thing then old to new/top to bottom is fine with me.

David,
I think we could use you to mediate the LA group meeting…and to take the heat (Panos) away from me! Only problem is if you’re in town how can I spend the weekend in a classroom???

• I would have to agree that the comments should go back to the way they were. Panos having it this way really saves you no time on the iPhone because to post you are going to have to scroll down to bottom anyway. Sidney typepad does not allow us to number the comments I have been trying to find out if we can change the blogging company we use and still save everything (the main factor for switching or not).

• Sidney
when you read the L.A or N.Y Times…
don’t you always find the news on the beggining?
I asked for the change for Safety reasons…
I’m always in a car, even now I’m on 5North driving to mission viejo…
its not such a big change after all..
you see, I’m not rich like Herve,
so I don’t have the luxury to sit in front of a computer all day long..
I’m not gonna live my life in a virtual way…
driving and smoking and posting and crying and laughing!!!
but if you are on your computer its not a big deal..
but if type through your phone in that car… Then it is a matter of simply staying alive…
All that… Plus people don’t be so spoiled…
you can dig to find the comments…
Why numbers and bullshit…
lazy American ways…
David don’t always make it easy for them…
they are getting picky and rotten spoiled…
let them work a little bit ( me included)
we are like “vampires”
we are thirsty… We are groupies… We are fans…
keep your ” blood” for you or,…
you will be crucified… Just like Jesus…
f******g Christian mentality…
peace out

• Michael, on with you, but mostly talking about reading the posts, than typing.. But I agree with you… I was hoping that the ” posting box” would also move up… But it didnt… So now its a contradiction…
I still need to scroll down…
ok then, let’s go back…
I appreciate you tried the change…
I m happy to know that your ears are really open…
peace

• If Michael C says it’s better the way it was…then let’s go back.
It IS easier to read the old way.

Panos what are you doing driving NORTH to Mission Viejo? Are you secretly living in OC? Or were you down in San Diego without telling me?

• Not a fan of the reverse order. Have to scroll to the bottom anyway for posting.

• the reverse order is freaking me out..it is backwards, we read DOWN. can it please go back?

• CATHY,
my sister bought a new house at the wineries…
she is trying to help finance her first house, that she is trying to get rid of,
located also at the Wineries…
Now, there are some issues with the bank..
You see the bank hates the term “freelance photographer…”
now my little appartment in culver city-that I live the last 11 years is under major rennovations because of broken pipes…
so literally the last 4 months I’m practically homeless and always in the car..
so I’m closer to you lately…
the party that we are throwing for DAH is happening at the wineries house…
we got it all pimped up…
jacuzzi , big heated swimming pool,back yard, the whole MTV thing,,,
There is no way we can do a party or let DAH sleep in the little place. I can barely fit the dog there..
Who said I’m not rich like HERVE????
now, last night there was a big party in Dana Point… A friend of mine got a record deal for his “Heavy Metal” band…
his name is “Razor” and the band is “Metal Knights”
I know I hate heavy metal, but he is a friend and I am also doing the artwork for his new cd…
Tomorrow I’ll be all day at the OC,
because they do a recording studio session…
but I’ll try to be on time, beat traffic, ignore mygirlfroend’s birthday, so I can be in culver city and Hopefully meet you…
what a beautiful day today…
I’ll be in the wineries in an hour cleaning DAH’s room…
I also need to do groceries for our West Coast party…
Lets go wine tasting soon…
peace

• DAVID

And what happened then…?
Well…in Who-ville they say
That the Grinch’s small heart
Grew three sizes that day!

’tis how I feel looking at divided soul..

not that my heart is small, but with viewing work like that, even a good sized heart has to expand.

• Panos: I am not rich like Herve
—————————–

:-))))

I wish I could confirm, Panos. Alas, not rich here, far far from it. Self-employed (you know what means in the frisky economic climate of late), no health insurance, no property, but free as a bird!

• so in other words I live temporarily ( maybe forever) in one of the two big houses my sister owns…
11 years ago when I moved in culver city it was ALSO temporary…
so we will be neighbors if you don’t eventually move in India…
Holly Cow…
why am I telling you all that boring stories about my life?
who the hell I think I am?
one last thing:” I like sharing”…. So people, call me , email me, come over,
wake me up, or better:” keep me awake”
p.a: Daviddddddd!!!!! What time is your flight tomorrow????
E.T.A????
peace

• ANON

David –
Here’s something that you can answer that many of us (probably) wonder about — how do you survive  wise. Do you license so much old work that you have a substantial steady income from Magnum. Yes, the workshops must be a nice income but still, flying literally all over the world and you never talk (hardly ever) about your assignments and anyway shooting a story on the TGV for Fortune can’t pay that much (did that ever run by the way?) Not to be indelicate — perhaps though you can illuminate in an abstract way the solution, the answer, the method of living the D.A.H. “lifestyle.”

PS No backwards comments, number em.

cheers, and all best,
ANON.

• DAH BROTHERS AND SISTERS:

CHUC MUNG NAM MOI! :))))…

that’s happy newyears in Vietnamese (today is TET)…

and happy new years (yesterday) for Chiense New Year :))…

renewal, renewal, renewal!…

running
b

• I’m glad though that we had a full complete poll ,
before we switch back to our safe secure old
fashioned ways… This what I call democratic procedure;
3 people decide for the rest…
But then again, what can you do when niobe votes?
should I assume that noone cares…
Elections are coming up! What’s wrong with America?
Why don’t reelect Bush for another 120 years?
for the last 20 years only 2 families rule America…
the Clintons and the Bushes???
is this democracy or REGIME-cracy???
Panos…time to shut up…

• Wineries? Temecula?

• I LOVE TEMELCULA WINERIES! :)))))…spend many, many a long long afternoon amid those gentle hills and sunlicked vines…god, tha’ts killin’ me :))))…

Santa Ynez Region too!!!…shiiiiiit!…now im depressed ;))))

b

• Next to the reservations!!! huge place…

PRESTON OR G.KHAN nailed it below:

“It will be easy to forget your vision and purpose once you have fine clothes, fast horses, and beautiful women. You will be no better than a slave, and you will surely lose everything.

–Genghis Khan

Posted by: Preston | February 07, 2008 at 10:39 AM…

How weird… i just got a phone call regarding an apartment near Abbot Kinney… back in Venice… it will be ready in two months…
Fuck the wineries… fuck the bank that hates my unstable job…
Back in the beach in two months….
I’ve had it… back on my bike my skateboard , my boardwalk…
I got too serious lately…
DAH, also thank you because your free lifestyle… opens the way for me…. like a “light” in the vast ocean…
Happy chinese, vietnamese new year…
fuck…im craving sushi right now… AND AN ASAHI…. not a pentax though…
just the beer…
Fuck wine.. back to the beach… bitchhhhh!

• That was Genghis’ advice to one of his sons, who was to rule over the largest empire the world had ever known. Genghis never built a palace or lived in a city; he lived in a ger (a tent with felt walls) even though he was the most powerful man on earth. The son did not heed the advice.

• New idea… Tomorrow night I will be posting LIVE- real time, the
Alex Webb, DAH west coast meeting…
people stay tuned…
live coverage… Interviews, photos… Etc..
No student left behind as my hero G.Bush once said…
and Saturday morning. …Please don’t miss,
Panos the Wrapup Show…
stay tuned!

• Other than Alex I don’t think there’s going to be much that’s newsworthy…unless David pops in.

Bob likes Temecula! :)) Having only discovered you’re from San Diego a couple of days ago…the image of you there is making me smile…somehow I picture you as more of a Napa/Sonoma kind of guy. Not in the “wine snob” sense but Temecula is pretty small town and I think of you as a big city kind of guy…guess I’m wrong about that.

Is there any chance that I’m wrong about Panos too? That he turns out to be a sweet unassuming teddy bear? DOUBT IT!

• david alan harvey

CATHY, PANOS, ANNA…

do not think i can get to l.a…..sorry, but it is starting to look impossible….i totally forgot a meeting i have tomorrow morn in new york, MUST DO, and even with the time advantage in my favor, it is looking very grim…besides, i would have to turn right around and come back saturday…anyway, one more scramble to try it..will let you know tonight…

cheers, david

p.s. what happended to reverse order?? i guess nobody liked it…and , yes, you have to go to the bottom to post anyway…mike, mike where are you???? are you in l.a. with that crazy crowd??? come back, come back!!!

• thanks for calling me “NOBODY”
David…
you see… I could skip the scrolling down half of the time… Because I usually read, get motivated, read again and then post…
Now back in misery… Scrolling down no matter what…. Even if I don’t post…
I give up.
I will stick with BOBB… Whatever is good for them is good for me

• HI,
Wow, my birthday is on the Chinese New Year! What does that mean? I don’t know, but I’m hoping, planning on, assuming good luck at the very least.

DAVID- Can you make it to my opening? I’ll pick you up at the airport, give you a good place to sleep, even feed you.

Ciao,

Michael

• Does anybody know anything (should I put the question mark here?)

about the growing artist community or real estate in Pawtucket Rhode Island? Would living in such a community be kind of trite, or would it actually be a positive thing? How far off the beaten path is that place? Access to NYC?

I just read about it in a magazine and with the incentives the city is offering, it sees worth considering.

???
Michael

• Happy birthday, MA SHAPIRO

I wish you from the bottom of my greek heart….
to find , achieve ,complete or incomplete, develop …. yourself,
to the point of no “rebirth” as my friend Buddha would say…
peace
L.A, feels more peaceful to me today…
Hmmm i wonder why?

CATHY…
Me?… teddybear?… sounds “incomplete”… i love it….
I can’t believe i hated you in the first place….
I talked so much s**t about you!!!, but hey, at least in your face,
Love for ALL, TODAY…
It was relatively a good day.
Peace

• Oh by the way… when i said good day… i meant it..
…didn’t make any money, though!!!!
lol, peace

• BOBB SAID:
I LOVE TEMELCULA WINERIES! :)))))…spend many, many a long long afternoon amid those gentle hills and sunlicked vines…god, tha’ts killin’ me :))))…

Santa Ynez Region too!!!…shiiiiiit!…now im depressed ;))))

b
Posted by: bobblack | February 07, 2008 at 05:35 PM

you will take DAH’s room , unless is there with us… Huge house…
Only one thing i need from you… just read me a story before i fell asleep…”
but for real… do something crazy… im not rich but everything i have for this “specific” minute is yours too, or “OURS” to share…
Peace…
I always wanted to be a part of a “sweet” community…
Thank you MAESTRO
Thank you DavidAH.

• CATHY … THIS IS A STRAIGHT AND “COMPLETE” QUESTION:
I know i can go anf find out in the website, and blah, blah…
ok, question…?: “How much did it cost for the A Webb seminar…
I mean dough… moneys…??? paper?

• QUESTION FOR ALL?
SHOULD I SKIP MY GIRLFRIENDS BIRTHDAY ( already super angry),
party and the cake cut… and go to meet CATHY and ALEX… ,
( any other day, she would love to come with me or us, dont get me wrong… but its HER birthday… 29th birthday… beautiful , hot like lava, girl from PRAGUE… its her birthday.. up to 10 ten friends come from all over america… ).

People of this forum.. help?
What should i do?

As “THE CLASH”….. one of my favorite bands use to sing:
“SHOULD I STAY OR SHOULD I GO”!!?… now

peace

• ONE MORE THING….
I’m tired seeing my comments and the same names over and over…
people my english is terrible.. i shouldnt blame the car or the iphone for that…
I know many of you are from different countries( like me),
and all that bullshit full of glam and lies and silicon and bottox…
Do i love it… YES… but dont be me…be you…
thats why im asking everybody… fucking talk…
im tired hearing only the echo of my voice… im going crazy here..
mercy…. even if you live in the most little village in Greece…
dont be afraid speak up!

Look at my “speech” above… full of mistakes… i think faster than i write… my lazy fingers only “roll” fast, they dont type fast…
All that… get involved lazy asses!… I was working all day too…
I know!

• Panos…

I also “connect” deeply with that song. Relatives used to tease me about not being able to make a decision by singing it.

Cathy says…STAY with the girlfriend. You will be sitting listening to Alex and thinking “This isn’t so great” or “I should be with her” and won’t be able to enjoy yourself.

Plus, then I won’t have to wear makeup :))
(that’s a joke)

Anna and I will tell you what you missed. Look at Alex Webb’s portfolio on the Magnum site and you will see his same slide show and not miss the party.

I will check my records but it cost \$400-something for two and a half days…I paid over a year ago so don’t remember. I didn’t pay to take a workshop with Alex…I signed up for a workshop with JAMES NACHTWEY, the great.. but over the last year it was first postponed and eventually cancelled and since I had a credit I decided to go ahead and take another workshop. This will be far from a weekend with Nachtwey but I’m sure it will be inspirational and illuminating in some way…at least I hope so!

• Panos: do not under any circumstances leave your woman on her birthday. You have every right to do so, but you will regret it in soooooo many ways for the rest of your relationship, that, by the way, may be shorter than you had planned.

PANOS – NO! SIT! STAY

Michael

• Michael S.

Happy Birthday!

My sister in law lives in Pawtucket. Good pizza…suburb of Providence…somewhat depressing if you ask me but it’s been years since I’ve been there. Boston is an hour away. New York not so close. Real estate is reasonable.

• Cathy, thanks.

Michael

• Now i see the truth…
TRUTH is i messed up royally ….
I talked to much about promising coverage and photos…
almost “put” DAH on an airplane… really already purchased all the
“groceries” for the DAH after party in the wineries….
and now…
“SHE”… is “UPSTAIRS”….not even talking to me…

Literally, even if i stay… with her… im missing both of the events,…
you see what i mean? already emotionally cold… damage is done
dont you think this is a good reason to go??? to see A Webb? …
and of course CATHY & ANNA???

• “29th birthday… beautiful , hot like lava, girl from PRAGUE”

You would give that up for me, Anna and Alex???
Hmmm….

• damage is done

Who do you want to live with, your woman or Alex?

Michael

• Kelly Lynn James

DAVID… just back from NOLA and I can’t even begin to catch up on the posts here. New Orleans was a wild ride and a very rich experience. Ready for DR now. Craving a warm beach and some fresh fruit.

I meet another of your homeless photog neighbors in New Orleans. Someone should document what each of you do for the next 6 months…

• I would actually, i dont want to say more… but for photography…
I would let my mother bleed in the pavement…. i would run in the car… get the camera… or if not in the car… i would google the nearest camera store on my iphone… go there.. purchase one…
go back in the scene (bleeding mother), i would charge the battery in the car, pop the little flash and then click … without any “bracketing” necessary…
Then i would call 911 and the paramedics or something like that…
WHY????
“Well… its my mother you know…

ohhh, i think she is coming downstairs… peace for now….
let me restart this computer or someth

• david alan harvey

CALIFORNIA CROWD…

ok, i cannot make it to the Alex Webb lecture and the party Panos is planning ….and NOBODY (that is me!!) hates to miss a good party more that me ….NOBODY (me again) in their right mind would even consider such a flight for a spontaneous gathering, but surely i would if i could but i can’t so i won”t…homelessness does have it’s freedoms, but it also has it’s downside!! it is too complicated to explain, but i must go to washington on saturday to clear my books out of that apartment (lived there 15 yrs) which is now under contract for sale..if i do not do this, i cannot close the sale….so, that is why i cannot fly to california (i could have put off the meeting somehow)….will SOMEBODY (that is you) please give Julia Dean a hug for me….she was a student of mine in Maine a long long time ago…and , of course, i know that SOMEBODY (you again) will take pictures of the gathered tribe…

now, since i cannot make this one and it is killing me, i will come up with a plan so that many of us can meet….sort of a new version of the Burning Man fest…

back soonest…

cheers, david

p.s. NOBODY (not even me) would leave their girlfriend on her birthday for any reason!!!

• DAVID
if you tell us a little in advance, maybe I could make it too?! I would so much love to meet everyone. But Germany is a little far off. Especially because I just remembered I do have to have my passport renewed. Probably now with all additional biometric information or whatever they are up to now. I would not wonder if it takes 12 weeks to get.

Crazy, crazy…

But I’d really try if I get a chance to come and meet the bunch :)

MICHAEL
Herzliche Glückwünsche zum Geburtstag from me too! And a virtual hug from this part of the world. Might your wildest dreams come true!

My coffee is cold. Little Hunter (the dog) sleeping soundly on my lap and I do not dare to get up to reach for my bowl of coffeine…

Best for all,
Lassal

• PANOS

don’t leave your girlfriend at this day! If not for her, than for yourself.

:)

• david alan harvey

JOHN R. FULTON…

yes, amigo , yes…”Exiles” is one of the greatest photo books ever!! i am still trying to get the black dog cover shot out of Joseph for my wall….

ANON…

this is a good and fair question….how do i survive money-wise??? i ask myself this question every day!!!

however, this is what happened in 2007…every year is different…

yes, my archive does give me some income every month…this is why i tell emerging photogs to protect and prize their copyright and their archive the way they would protect any piece of property…it is your legacy for one thing, your income for another…

workshops do not provide substantial income, but they do keep me “on my toes” and i always photograph in the countries i visit and this feeds the archive…mostly, workshops are the best symbiotic relationship for me that i know…the perfect give and take relationship..everyone is happy…very fulfilling …workshops take up about a third of my time….oh yes, in this same genre, i do receive occassional speaking fees…

print sales are now becoming a larger part of my income…. …..exhibitions account for some income….this is the most rewarding way to earn money in photography…funding coming because someone likes your work..period..i am now putting more effort into this area that in the past was simply a “by-product” of assignments….

cultural projects, like the ones i did in Thailand and Korea last summer, add to the archive and are relatively lucrative….book and exhibits follow…these projects are terrific, but few and far between…

i usually do one to three advertising shoots each year…last year i did three…..they take up the least time and provide the best income…most of them are fun to do, but i do not plan my life around them at all..that would be a mistake..

magazine assignments account for the least income…there just are few magazines with substantial budgets anymore….i love magazines and i earned my living for many years with the best of all for long-term funding..National Geographic…i did one assignment for Natgeo last year on the Mexican cowboys…short but sweet…

like almost all Magnum photographers, my philosophy is this: work on personal heartfelt projects…avoid assignments when possible unless they fit in with a personal project..(Divided Soul came from a series of assignments with the goal of book in mind all along)..remember , your books and your exhibitions are at the top of the creative “food chain” so do those at all costs…once you “taste book”, the menu never looks the same again!!!

remember, it is archive archive and archive and legacy, legacy and legacy!!!!….this “attitude” usually means keeping your expenses and general overhead low….i need few material possession, i finance few material possessions…

earning a living as a freelance photographer is always a scramble…and, over the years, i have had to re-invent the way i earned my living many times…NOT RE-INVENT THE WAY I WORK, just re-invent the way i earn my living…

my main philosophy which applies to all of the above: no arrogance, shun hubris…

any day that i can wake up and not think i am “going to work” is a good day…i have my camera with me everyday all the time and photograph all the time…it is a pleasure…keeping photography a pleasure is a full time job!!!

in the past, no doubt i have been lucky, i have been blessed…. however, i have no clue about future funding….

however, i am so so excited about my next shooting project that will take me all year and take advantage of being homeless!!! since this is one that i will have to do “on my own”, i have no idea how i will earn a living while doing it….stay tuned!!

cheers, david

• michael S: :))

I know PAWTUCKET D! :)))…i know the place well….:))

I lived in Providence for 4 years as I helped my little brother get through the art school RISD. I lived in Providence from 88-90 as a freshly minted starving artist helping my younger brother (little starving artist) get through that ridiculously expensive and famous school…actually, I LOVED RHODE ISLAND…it was a weird and odd state, but i loved the accent, the people, the towns, the water, the beaches…and the island…

Pawtucket is a weird town, but even then there was a strong arts community (mostly from Risd and NYC), as well as other places in ri..

It isnt off the beaten track at all and parts (by the Bay) are gorgeous, as is all of RI around the bay (both sides)…RI has changed alot and at the time i lived in RI, Providence was going through its “renaissance”..sort of ;)))…

RI is totally “small” and a bit provincial, but it’s got extraordinary character and charm and the people are real folk (what i loved) and it’s a great place to escape the pretense of boston or NYC…

if ur a big city boy, maybe it’ll be weird, but, well, i think there are other more interesting places in RI to live, but there is lots there…as for “artist colony” it isnt really like the LongIsland East of the 50’s/60’s…or the Providencetown of lore…its more like, ummmmm, well, someone who thinks “cool, gonna move to an artist colony” kind of place…

that said, i’d live in RI again, but it would have to be a beach town (part of pawtucket is that) and not …

instead, look at Bristol, Greenwich, Warwick, charlestown, even beloved Newport for more interesting place…

either way, RI is a much more interesting place than what most folk thing…

from providence (where pawtucket is across the river from) to boston: ~1.25 hr via trail (easy cool trip) and to nyc like 4 hrs (if memory is correct)..

good luck!

cheers
bob
.

• yo david! :)))))))))))

CHRIS ANDERSON WAS A WORLD PRESS AWARD! :))…JUST RECEIVED THE ANNOUNCEMENT!

JUST SEND HIM AN EMAIL…

BIG PROPS TO THAT DOG! :))))

HUYGS
B

• David,waking up to read your last post was a wonderful thing. It answered questions, disillusioned in a good way.

The archives- precisely how do they make you money? Images sold for advertising?

More as I scroll up and read.

Michael

• BOBB “its more like, ummmmm, well, someone who thinks “cool, gonna move to an artist colony” kind of place”

Exactly what I suspected, though it was just a little voice.

Thanks.

Michael

• ANON.

David –
Many thank you’s for responding to my question above. Illuminating and inspiring… but as a 50-something, it’s kind of late for me to establish archives…

I’ve spent my career as a freelancer, mostly working on assignment, hustling, putting kids through college, keeping cars repaired, studio rent paid, and all of the other things that distract one from what might be their true vision. In the grand scheme of things I’d say I’ve had a successful career — so many fellow photographers and former assistants have moved on to other things, so I guess I must have some talent in my favor… however…

how long can one operate as a freelancer moving literally from day to day looking for that next client, doing the next promo, sending the next e-mail blast… You look around and there is so much young talent — and you sometimes take solace knowing that today’s celebrated hotshot is no longer heard from in a year or two… I don’t know…

there are a few reps who take fine art photographers and turn them into advertising photographers, alec soth is with one of those photogs… advertising money is insane, i wonder who you have done work for???… it’s like being an investment banker (for a day or two!!!) you might consider that, because 4 days of work can turn into a year’s income, it’s nuts…

selling prints as you said is the best… well almost the best… i think getting a call to send someone a jpeg for stock photo use is the best, it’s a simple ka-ching! … whereas a print you have to make to your satisfaction… can you imagine how great it would be to be alec soth? huge prints, good dough, an insatiable audience, a talent for making that art-speak which collectors love, and a pretty darn good photographer to boot…. kudos to that man for having the guts to follow his instincts…

i’m going to re-read your response — again!!! — and make a promise to myself to find the joy in photography — while i love it and can’t do anything else, when it’s your living it’s a complicated relationship…

but… i’m rambling now, like so many of the blog denizens here do so often, sorry folks!

looking forward to hearing what your next personal project is… and good luck moving those books! those by the way are probably worth more than you imagine.

“ANON.”

• SHOULD I SKIP MY GIRLFRIENDS BIRTHDAY?

No. Trust me on this one, Panos, you do not want to do this. Forgetting your girl friend’s birthday is bad enough, but skipping it altogether to meet other people tells her that she is not the most important person in your life, and it seems that most girl friends want to believe that they are the most important person in their boy friends’ lives. So, to repeat, DO NOT DO THIS…EVER! You have been warned.

• ALL – Anybody want to place bets on Panos’ choice later today?

NEED TO VENT – Shit-I discovered my 28mm lens that lives on my camera was loose, wobbly. I called Leica, sent it in overnight. They had promised to get right at it. They didn’t. Last I heard, it was sitting in their warehouse, untouched. For as expensive as that stuff is, you’d expect royal treatment, but NO))).

BUT- I really like my 35. Hmm, maybe it’s a sign.

Thanks for listening.

Michael

• hmmmm…. advertisments… I think I mentioned it before so it is no harm talk a little about that.

I do not do just storyboards but a lot of layout-illustrations for international campaings. At the moment I do live from this work mainly and finace my photography projects and travels throught this. I have no photography background and do not know any serious photographers other than the people on this blog. Which for me now is a true blessing. Much changed in me since I found photography … and since I found this blog. But that now is besides the point.

Let’s talk about photography, layout, and commercials!

I started drawing for commercials to finance my studies (of architecture) and am a whitness of a process, that is making the life of commercial photographers more and more difficult.
Due to a lot of things, especially financial reasons, and due to the fact, that branding, marketing in general etc. is really taking over a world that is so full of competing products, the client (not the agency) is wanting more and more decision power. This is making a complex story a little flat, forgive me, but the point is … While a couple of years ago I had to do a simple scribble to illustrate the idea of a treatment (leaving the following up photographer plenty of room to be creative) now I practically (and more and more often) am asked to draw the photo on a more and more realistic way, thus narrowing in any possible photographic freedom.

They are paying me lot’s of money for that. And the only reason, why it is not done more often is, at least in my case, that it cannot usually be done in one night, because I need feedback in between. Very few agencies are so well organized to get their briefing in on time. But they are getting better at it. Why? Because the client wants so. The Client wants to see what he will get. And very often it is the top level that wants to decide the direction of the new campaing. Or at least they want to think they decided. AND… well, you will not give a Top Manager a black ‘n’ white scribble… So I have to really go realistic as much as time allows. And then … guess what happens? They make all kind of little changes (haircolors, mimic, clothing…) things, that do not really matter, as originally the whole reason for the meeting was to get an IDEA across. But the decision-people are often not the creative ones, and they think that all is a you-will-get-what-you-see thing. And at the end, when hair, mimic, clothing, clouds, etc. are ok, they want to have THAT picture. Not similar, no, they really want to have THAT picture.
I never envy the photographers…

Take one huge international company, which I work for, for example. Most of the people (at least in Germany) know the campaign with the great landscapes in the background that reflect somehow what the product (in the foreground) does or which emotions it should trigger…
I get the briefing: we want to see the product from the front, from the side, the buttons on the top are important, and acually we do have to be able to look inside, too.
?!?
Picasso and his cubism could do such. I have to trick around a lot … whilst thinking “it’s impossible” over and over and over.

So it is a lot of perspective tricksing. And then … the photographer gets it. And people from one of the agency, that I know very well, tell me about the agony… They want to have it JUST LIKE THE ILLUSTRATION! Which is not possible for the Photographer. And he has no freedom for being creative himself at all. He just has to deliver. And more than once I got a call and helped out in the background with the perspective.

At the end, I have to say that the “wrongness” of the perspective helps the image to stand out in a way. It becomes a little bit supenatural, which the company likes a lot…

But the photographer… no fun he had.

Now the new development: They asked me, if I could not do the whole thing from the start. Which means they want to ditch the photographer completely and I am suposed to do the “photography” by illustrating it.

That is what is happening. And this is just one example. I am just now asking if I could share the images with you, so you know what I am talking about. But as weekend is coming…

Of course this is just starting now. It will take a time. And it will never be JUST so. But I am observing this for a while now and not just I.

So the “little” commercial photographer with no big name of it’s own will MAYBE start to feel this soon. Although I do not think the big names will feel it. When you do have a name in the arts and do a commercial job for a huge amount of money, they’ll generally let you do more or less what you want. It is your name they want. And if you carry this name you probably will deliver a great set of pictures anyway.

And besides that… Even earning enough money with that, they did their maths and as an illustrator without studio, assistant, lights, make-up artist, casting etcetcetcetc, they would save a lot of money. They know that. They tell me that. It is crazy and a little scary too. Even for me.
And by the way, it is not much fun making this realistic stuff. I prefer to make 200 scribbles to 1 realistic illustration. It is just very boring.

So things are moving … And there are a lot of great illutrators working out there. And a lot of them are struggeling for work. Often because they do not know how to sell. But there are a lot of reps out there collecting them in…

The word is big. Changes start someplace and take a lot of time to establish themselves. But I think this would be interesting for you to know?

• Michael,

My husband (who has spent a lot more time in RI than I have…since it’s his sister who lives there)…says if he were to pick one place in RI to live, it would be Bristol.

All I know right now, is that I want to sell this acreage in South Dakota and spend more time shooting.

Thanks again for relaying information.

• Hammer [Groucho Marx]: … Now here is a little peninsula, and here is a viaduct leading over to the mainland.
Chico: Why a duck?
Hammer: I’m all right. How are you? I say here is a little peninsula, and here’s a viaduct leading over to the mainland.
Chico: All right. Why a duck?
Chico: All right. Why a duck? Why a— why a duck? Why-a-no-chicken?
Hammer: I don’t know why-a-no-chicken. I’m a stranger here myself. All I know is that it’s a viaduct. You try to cross over there a chicken, and you’ll find out why a duck. It’s deep water, that’s viaduct.

Lots of people argue about politics; in fact, arguing about politics is one of the great pleasures, if you can call it that, of American life and has been since the founding of the Republic. Very few people other than academics, though, actually argue about the political philosophies that underlie those arguments; most people prefer to concentrate instead on the day to day maneuvering and staged news events that constitute the foam on the surface of the political sea. I think more people would talk about political philosophy if someone kept the academics out of the discussion altogether, since most of them are fairly liberal, if not actual left wingers of one sort or another; professors are, as a rule, annoying the way your neighbor’s kids are annoying, which is too say all the damn time and never more so than when they let that damn dog of theirs wander around the neighborhood peeing on your mother’s azaleas, but that’s another story; and left wingers, like any other insecure religious believer, like to shout down anyone who disagrees with them. This makes them disagreeable to be with on the whole, especially if they are Marxists, since they may mistake you for an oppressed proletarian and try some brand new lines of agitprop on you to gauge their overall effectiveness, hoping to stir some good old fashioned revolutionary class struggle with a pernicious but otherwise fairly harmless kulak counter-revolutionary capitalist running dog like your local Korean fruit stand owner before they go home to the suburbs and eat some vegan quiche for supper.

I bring this up because one of my co-workers, a graduate student who wants to work with children after she gets her masters degree, for reasons that elude me at the moment (you can skip the next bit if you want and start up with and I; you won’t miss anything important); the concept of willingly working with children always reminds me of great souls like Father Damien or Albert Schweitzer or Mother Teresa, living saints who spend their lives working with lepers or condemned prisoners or advertising executives; you’re happy that someone works on behalf of these poor unfortunate wretches, and you’re equally happy, if not even more so, that the someone who works with them isn’t you; and I (welcome back to the main part of the sentence; the weather here is fine, sunny and high in the low 70’s with a chance of showers later tonight) found ourselves talking about Marxism for some reason. We discussed the great dogmas of that great secular faith: dialectical materialism, the surplus value of labor, the dictatorship of the proletariat, the class struggle and the inevitable triumph of the workers, religion as the opiate of the masses, and then she posed a question about the central tenet of the Marxist faith. She was skeptical of many Marxist claims, and one may say that in the light of recent history she has every right to be skeptical, and she wondered aloud if anyone had ever done a systematic and scientific examination of the factors involved in the Marxist conundrum of why a duck?

Indeed, one may well ask why a duck and not some other species of waterfowl? The question of why a duck is an old one, as I am sure you know, predating the existence of Marxism by at least a millennium. In the Middle Ages, schools of philosophy contended bitterly over the question, with angry mobs of students coming constantly to blows in the streets of Paris and Bologna and cheese with mustard, with many a university suspended from competition for years because of irregularities in recruiting star philosophers. The medieval nominalists held that only the individual duck existed, that ducks as a class merely reflected the individual duck down to the webbed feet, the quack, and the insatiable drive to sell supplemental health insurance. The medieval realists believed that ducks derived their inherent duckiness from their being part of the greater class of ducks and from owning a really cool motorcycle, which then, as now, was a babe magnet, and that the individuality of specific ducks was less important than the larger category of duck to which all ducks belonged…yeah, I know, this is all a bit much, but it was the Middle Ages, remember; there were no movies, no television, much less cable TV, no computer games or any computers to play them on. They had to do something to pass the time and arguing about whether ducks came by their identity through their individual characteristics or through their membership in the National Hockey League was a good way to kill a year or two. Remember how dumb you’re going to look to your descendants a thousand years from now and cut these people some slack, okay? Medieval peasants, to round out the argument, thought that both schools of thought had a good deal of merit, intellectually speaking, but most held to the opinion that no matter which school’s argument was the more valid, ducks still tasted pretty damn good when you could catch them, particularly if damp and moldy rye bread is all you’ve had to eat since you were a kid.

Marxists, as a rule, follow the realist approach to the question of why a duck. Such categories as class and duck, after all, are human constructs, after all, templates that are dishwasher safe and won’t break even if hurled at a wall by a happy Greek dancing to the theme music from Zorba the Greek at a wedding he’s not paying for; free food does that to people sometimes. In any case, this reduction of ducks to a mere category, one of many, suits the philosophical bent of most Marxists, who seem to despise most species involved in the insurance business, but this aversion has little or nothing to do with the larger question of why a duck. The most popular answer of the twentieth century was I don’t know, I’m a stranger here myself, but I feel that in our more modern age we can safely say, without fear of contradiction, why the hell not a duck, and to say so with great confidence. Now why Marxists loathe the insurance business so much is another question entirely, and one beyond the scope of this inquiry, but the dislike appears real enough, based on the historical evidence of the past century. I find it hard to think of a twentieth century Marxist state where I’d feel comfortable selling life and property insurance, given the usual Marxist prejudices about life and property.

Okay, you’re thinking, what the hell does any of the above have to do with how and where and how or even why someone comes up with good photgraphic ideas. The answer to this entirely sensible question is, of course, not a goddam thing. There’s a lot of this sort of thing going on these days, what with global warming and the rise of atheistic fundamentalism, and you shouldn’t be surprised if this situation, like that rash you’ve been scratching for the past week and a half, doesn’t go away any time soon.

• ANON

Michael S
Providence, nifty little city, lots of renovation, bargains are fewer and further between these days, actually long gone, but lots of restaurants, brown univ and very famous RISD there, it’s the capital, they have a wonderful green market, it’s not far from the water, pawtucket is old mills, a funky, beat but on the rebound town, artists, yes, but are they making a living? dunno… you just gotta go and see it for yourself… boston folks are moving to prov, have been for awhile, cheaper… about an hour or so… is it way different than desolate SD? YES!

• hey Panos, you idiot! (teasing):

“If you don’t take her out tonight
she’s going to change her mind
And I will take her out tonight
And I will treat her kind

You’re going to lose that girl
If you don’t treat her right, my friend
You’re going to find her gone
‘Cause I will treat her right and then
You’ll be the lonely one

I’ll make a point of taking her away from you
Yeah, the way you treat her, what else can I do

You’re going to lose that girl”

;-)

• Martin (marcin luczkowski)

Hi David,

May I have question?

what you prefer,beautful perfect very very interesting picture but you don’t see photographer in this photo, or rather not perfect pictures but you see photographer, his character, mood,life, mind?

Martin

• Akaky,

Atheistic fundamentalism? Rising?

• UPDATE- Now Leica called and said that my lens is there (it was there yesterday) and they’ll look at it on Monday. I sent it overnight on Wednesday, thinking I’d have it back today.

Why aren’t they cooperating!!!

“Hi, we have your eyeball; we couldn’t look at the day it got here; we can’t look at it the day we find out we have it; now we’ll sit on it for three days, and tell you when we can give you back your eye.”

Isn’t there some kind of moral imperative that should be at work here?

Which came first, Leica or the individual duck? Obviously, the individual Leica duck, because if it had been Leica, no one would have bought their cameras.

Writers have it made. Hey, my pencil broke!

Thanks again.

Michael

• Michael :))

as i said, i lived in Providence for 4 years and know lots of artists there (since my brother went ot RISD and most of my friends were RISD grads or instructors)…

Bristol is a great town, sam with Greenwich and anywhere really (read the novel SPARTINA, great book about RI and the Naragansett Bay)….

providence/ri is DEFINITELY NOT desolate, and i love that state…you dont need an “artist colony” to love the place…and damn, the clams are brilliant:

Quahog anyone? ;))))

ANON: :))..right on…its a great place…funny, i lived there before the Providence renewal…before there was a “canal” ;)))….

cheers
b

• AKAKY

I always had you figured for a closet MARXIST anyway… the only real question is, are you a GROUCHO MARXIST or a CHICO MARXIST? Or do you try to synthesize this thesis and antithesis?

Also, if it LOOKS LIKE A DUCK, WALKS LIKE A DUCK, and QUACKS LIKE A DUCK… then it’s probably a native speaker of CANTONESE! I still haven’t to my own satisfaction figured out ‘Why a duck?’ but I know their are already more than 80 million of them and counting… and they will probably eventually rule the earth just on the merits of their culinary skills alone.

As you probably know, Canada is a bilingual country, and out here on the West Coast (also known as the ‘Left Coast’) Vancouver is now a completely ‘bi-lingual city’… Mandarin and Cantonese! How can a non-speaker of Chinese dialects tell the difference? It’s pretty easy , really… (Ducks quacking? Cantonese! Cats f**king? Mandarin!) To say ‘Happy New Year!’ (Lunar New Year, of course) in Cantonese, ‘Gung Hei Fat Choy!’ In Mandarin, ‘Gong Xi Fa Cai!’. And that ‘Xi’ sounds like ‘hhssshee’ and that ‘Cai’ sounds like ‘ttsssigh’, just like cats hissing, see? Xi? Hsi?

Incidentally, in my childhood and youth I was more of a GROUCHO MARXIST but as I got older and more mature, I discovered the more subtle depths of CHICO MARXISM. My favorite Chico Marx story is about how he used to practise the piano. Marx Brothers fans will know that Chico was a brilliant pianist. But he was also an inveterate womanizer. He would say to one of his buddies, ‘I need to practise the piano today’. Then he would soak his hands in a bowl of warm water for five minutes. After that, he’d say, ‘That’s enough practise for today! Let’s go find some tomatoes!’

Long Live the Revolution,

Sidney

• Michael Kircher,

Incidentally, Akaky is right on about ‘atheistic fundamentalism rising.’ Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, etc. etc. A whole spate of books in the last year or two by well-known atheist ‘thinkers’. Just FYI.

Sidney

• I’m off to LA…See you soon Anna.
PANOS????

Wish me luck everyone!

• Sidney,

Which is it, “thinkers” or “fundamentalists?”

• Michael K,

Certainly in the case of Richard Dawkins, while he is otherwise a respected scientific thinker, I’d say his brand of atheism smacks of fundamentalism. The others I’m less familiar with… maybe a little of both? Not an area I worry about much.
Cheers,

Sidney

• Safe travels, Cathy! I look forward to meeting you soon. :)

• Sidney,

I realize David might prefer that this not take up space here but just for clarification’s sake…The term fundamentalist–as I suspect you know–rose from that Protestant movement for a literal truth of the Bible. It has since been often assigned to other radical religious movements that frequently resort to violence and mayhem due, in part, to severe ignorance of the real world.

That Dawkins and Hitchens dare to state plainly, through speaking engagements and books, their strong distaste for religion…and yes often not in a very polite way…doesn’t come close to what “fundamentalism” actually is. To use that phrase is to seriously cheapen it.

One of the tamer entries in the dictionary I have says this: “A movement or point of view characterized by rigid adherence to fundamental or basic principles.” That can be applied to almost anything.

Me, personally? I hold rigidly to the notion that tomorrow morning the sun will “rise” across the street as you look out my front window, then it will “set” behind the houses out my backyard window later in the day. Strictly speaking, I guess that makes me a Copernican Fundamentalist. But, again, if we’re going to so easily and cheaply use that word…it loses all meaning…at least it does for me.

That’s the only reason I chimed in. Sorry.

• Groucho: Now over here’s the levee.
Chico: That’sa da Jewish neighborhood.
Groucho: Well, we’ll pass over that.

• BROTHER AKAKY:!

:))))))))))!!!…WILL WRITE U LATER….

TONIGHT, I STARTED TO RE-READ AGEE’S “A DEATH IN THE FAMILY”…

so, im sucking and cucking (cocking?) beneath a sprinkler of silver-hearted prose…

so for u:

forget the visuals, just listen: Nick Cave:

• HELLO ALL….

i have no time to write …. someone is waiting for me out on the streets of new york…but, with a quick glance i see so much interesting stuff up there…i want to jump in, but cannot now…tomorrow morning maybe…i do see that Akaky has gotten stoned again and is trying to outdo Bob for the award soon to come honoring “Blogworlds Longest Comments”….i hope you know i love it!!! flattering that you would spend so much time here…i did leave a long comment way back up there somewhere about how to earn a living in photography…..why would i ever speak to THAT topic??????

cheers, david

• DAVID:

I bow, bow (like the quacking duck i am) to Akaky: he should be bestowed with all DAH Blog post/comment awards….besides, anyone as old as Akaky who still takes time to talk philosophy, Marxism and Medieval bird and husbandry habits (rara avis, anyone?), deserves all awards and accolades (especially gilted with adverbial clauses)….Akaky is THE master :))))…and i addle the water off my feather’d back ;)))…

Akaky: just re-read…..ok, we’ll be in nyc (if DAH gets his ass there then) in May (this is like, that proverbial duck) the 4th time in the last 7 months i’ve tried to schedule a meeting) and we gotta waddle over to a watering hole (I KNOW I KNOW U DONT DRINK, JUST AS U DONT USE ADVERBIAL CLAUSES POORLY, BECAUSE OF THOSE DAMN NUNS, forgive me if i’ve offended any lay ummm folk, catholic or otherwise) to sift together?…deal? :)))

that’s it for a while: u r a dream-confederate-singer ;)))

running away for a a few days now :))

b

• 6:42 pm live, Los Angeles, Culver City

Los Angeles… EXTRA EXTRA… FIRST LIVE (THROUGH AN IPHONE)…
LIVE FROM CULVER CITY…

OUTSIDE THE BUILDING THAT ALEX WEBB LECTURE WILL HAPPEN…. IN
about half an hour….stay tuned … all LIVE…

go visit IMMEDIATELY MY BLOG BELOW WHERE PHOTOS ARE POSTED… live coverage just started…

http://blog.panosfotografia.com/

• 7:11pm RELAX EVERYBODY…
THIS IS THE “WRAPUP” SHOW…. WITH PANOS… AND NOT ONLY…

ohhh before that,…. visit below… new iphone photos… live 7:14 pm, Culver City,…L.A

http://blog.panosfotografia.com/

• PEOPLE AGAIN: I APOLOGIZE FOR THE VERY POOR QUALITY
OF THE I PHONE PICTURES… LOW QUALITY… BUT
IT IS LIVE.. THE BEST OUR “WRUPUP SHOW” CAN DO FOR NOW.. SEEKING UPDATES THOUGH!!!

I KNOW THAT ALL OF YOU HAVE AT LEAST 3 LEICA’S
AND 6 NOCTILUXE’S BUT ITS LIVE, LIVE, LIVE…

7:23PM CULVER CITY…

• 7:44 PM ALEX WEBB

GRAND OPENING
LIVE CLICK BELOW… new iPhone photo:

http://blog.panosfotografia.com/

• THIS IS PANOS..
ROLLING A FATTY,,, AT HOME ! GIRLFRIENDS BIRTHDAY, REMEMBER??????????

WELL MY FRIENDS IM REALLY AT HOME… THIS IS STILL THE “WRUPUP”(NOT WRAPUP)… WRUPUP…
7:52 pm

…BUT THE REAL HERO…. THE REAL REPORTER… IS MY GOOD FRIEND..
HALF MY AGE… GREAT PHOTOGRAPHER , RYAN SHARIF….

RYAN, IS RIGHT THIS SECOND (7:49 PM, PACIFIC)…
ATTENDING THE LECTURE, PHOTOGRAPHING THE LECTURE ,,,
BUT ONLY WITH AN” I PHONE”… THAT WAS THE DEAL…
EVERYTHING SHOULD BE DONE …AS THE “WRUPUP” SHOW…
suggests…

• PEOPLE VISIT HIS BLOG TOMORROW TO SEE WHAT HE THINKS… BECAUSE HE (RYAN SHARIF) IS ACTUALLY THERE WITH CATHY AND ANNA… NOT ME… he is sending photos through his iphone and im home, drinking CUTTY SHARK, listening at some old “BIRTHDAY PARTY…” BACK IN THE DAY… Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds… Tupelo..
does anyone remembers the song “KNOCKING ON JOE” by Nikolas,( thats how we used to call him in greece,…. or Nick Cave…..

HIS BLOG BELOW:

http://blog.ryansharif.com/

• 8:07, NEW IPHONE PHOTO… ALEX WEBB SPEAKING:

click below:

http://blog.panosfotografia.com/

• AND NOW THE MOMENT THAT EVERYONE WAS WAITING FOR;;;;

FOR THE FIRST TIME…. CATHY AND ANNA….

WHO IS WHO…. Terrible photo from the iPhone…
by my best friend and tech guru RYAN SHARIF…cofounder of the
“WRUPUP SHOW”…click below and guess who is Anna and who is Cathy… again i need to apologize for the iphone low quality..
its all LIVE though… 8:30 pm Los Angeles…
live from the “wineries party”

http://blog.panosfotografia.com/

• now… let my attend my “party” over here… because i look like a junkie in the corner… typing… but we all know that…

…MAJOR TOM’S A JUNKIE…. ahhhh David Bowie….

RYAN SHARIF the WRUPUP SHOW want to thank you again… for the
“R.Capa”, iphoning….
… more to come…
… back to the party….”
DAVID… you have no idea what you missing…”

• 8:54 pm … at the “wineries”
I’m waiting in front of the screen of an old G4… for another …
Ryan iphone email… nothing,,

ahh the music…. the music… in my ears that comes in from the party….” yellow roses”… RY COODER….

jesus … how old am I?

and why do i love scotch whisky so much….
this week i finished a cutty shark, a chivas regal… a j… ahhhh
whateveer… i love you all…
i love you girl… happy birthday…

• and the music now is:

“MY SWEET PRINCE”.. BY “PLACEBO”….. without you im nothing…

thats whats up right now…..

• panos says:

ANNA AND CATHY….. DAH BLOGGERS

IPHONED BY RYAN SHARIF , FOR THE WRUPUP SHOW….

PANOS SCRATCHING HIS GREEK HEAD AGAIN!!!!

The girl on the right… i can barely see from the freeky iphone low quality… but the girl on the left…. she is “hot”… forget Alex Webb…
Posted 2 hours ago. ( permalink | delete | edit )…

is that Alex Webb at the back?

• Panos,

Npw you see what i mean about out of focus images? Incomplete? :))

• It was great meeting Anna and Ryan.
Missed you Panos!
I gave Ryan a hug for you. make sure you get it.

MICHAEL S. Maybe you shouldn’t move…
Rebecca Norris Webb’s presentation was on South Dakota!

I HAVE A FEELING THAT THAT ALEX WEBB kinda “SUCKED”…
boring, boring boring…
you know i wasn’t there… but comparing to DAH i think that ALEX

(sorry Alex), tonite at least sucked… please tell me im wrong….
please tell me he is not as “white” as he looks….

en( LIGHTEN ) ME UP!

hugs to you too!

• Panos,

I’ll give my report after the workshop…ask Ryan about what you missed tonight.

I saw someone on the beach today who I’m sure you know…I knew him long ago…Harry Perry? Hendrix on skates…

• PANOS TRYING TO DE-CODE CATHY’S WORDS:
“…I’ll give my report after the workshop…”

panos wiki translation: “….The lecture sucked mean d**k…”
I’m glad , i missed it…

.. but who cares… most important is, that the “WRUPUP SHOW”…
worked in a tight order, delivered ( cheap iphotos ON REAL TIME), that was only the beginning …)

LIVE. ON TIME, NOT LATER…
welcome to L.A…
what????
who’s late??????

• Rafal Pruszynski

Happy New Year David! And yes, here we just had the Lunar New Year celebration which means another week off. Panos, if yo are counting, Ive now been on vacation for about 3 weeks and have another 3 weeks to go:) Paid, baby, paid.

David,

the house looks awesome. Why not take it? I know you want to be in new york but seriously, how much do you go out and pound the pavement with your camera anyway? I think you could easily live in this great house and go on assignments.

• Heesun Cristina Seo

Hello david,
happy new chinese year xP
you didn’t forget about me, did you?
hahah

• This is how Koudelka must have felt all of the time in the 70s and 80s when he was gone from Hurn’s place from March to November, no?! Obviously, the nomadic lifestyle only helped fuel JK’s rage to see. . .

• Dear Mr.Harvey,

Happy New Year by the lunar calendar!!
we have ddugkuk(traditional rice cake soup)and recieve some money(it means good luck) from parents on new year day.

I have sent you an e-mail.

Thank you.
Bye.

• CATHY – What did Becky’s presentation include? What did she say?
Michael

• Don’t know if you have to be a member to view this, but over at Digital Railroad Sean’s images of the desertification in China is figured quite prominently. And of course a small mention of DAH blog.

Looks good Sean, congrats again!

• Interesting that Seans’ essay was submitted as B&W to David, and is in colors, prints on sale, on Dig Road. Does it make a difference one way or another?

• Hi David, Ladies & Gentleman… the photos from Alex and Rebecca Webb’s lecture last night are up on my blog… http://blog.ryansharif.com

I also inserted some of my feelings and thoughts I took away from the lecture last night.. To some it up for those who don’t like to leave the cave.. I felt Alex & Rebecca’s pictures were totally amazing. Rebecca’s passion was very inspiring, and she talked a lot about how she is a writer and writes accompanying text for her photos after she has realized what her assignment has reflected to her.

Alex also gave some great advice on how he shoots and how he takes meaning to make a book. I did get the feeling of a typical National Geographic Photographer ‘whatever that means to me’ So that was disappointing as Alex is one of my favorite photographers. I’m also one of those photographers that doesn’t like other ‘small time’ photographer like myself and found 90% of the questions and comments from the attendees totally lame and retarted.

– Ryan :-D

• To Everyone in Korea,

한국에 계시는 분 모두들에게,

설날 복 많이 받으십시요!

씨돈 올림

Sidney

• 국어 아름답고,

레바논에 대한 사랑

– Ryan

• I can’t talk about Alex Webb, Ryan, but we often give too much credence to people we admire but hardly know, and that can lead to disappointment.

PS: It could be Alex is not at his best talking about his lifework in a lecture format. Or maybe he needed a Panos at the height of his Tourette-induced interjections in the audience! :-)))

• Herve said: I can’t talk about Alex Webb, Ryan, but we often give too much credence to people we admire but hardly know, and that can lead to disappointment.

Ryan said: Your probably right Herve…

• Ryan,

깜짝 놀랐지! 우리 한국말 잘 하시네요. 여러가지 숨기고 있는 재주 가 많군요. 앞으로도 많이 즐곱게 기대 하겠는데요.

씨돈

• RYAN THANKS AGAIN FOR THE “LIVE” COVERAGE”
LAST NIGHT…
MAYBE OUR “WRUPUP SHOW” CAN TAKE THE AWARD FOR
DANGEROUS REPORTAGE… NEXT YEAR… AND LEAVE P.PELLEGRIN EMPTY-HANDED…
THAT WAS THE FASTEST LIVE COVERAGE,,, FOR SUCH A BORING
EVENT EVER…..

HERVEEEEE SAID:
“…Interesting that Seans’ essay was submitted as B&W to David, and is in colors, prints on sale, on Dig Road. …”

HEY HERVE remember when i said back in the day that Sean should quit using just iPhoto or picassa for b&w his canon jpg files… I guess other people noticed too that the conversions were muddy… and there you go… NO PROBLEM…CHANGE …. BACK TO COLOR…
LIKE NOTHING EVER HAPPENED… THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT… WHATEVER SELLS…
SOMETIMES i post in my blog the same photo twice… but usually as a joke… like for example my “rainbow” picture…

Now that im thinking about it… he should have posted eveything in COLOR at the first place… why black and white…
why PLAY GAMES… but if you wanna play games… then STICK with something… GIVE US THE ILLUSION THAT YOU HAD A PLAN… AND ACT LIKE YOU STICKING WITH IT…

• SIDNEY AND RYAN STOP IMPRESSING YOURSELVES WITH SILLY DEAD LANGUAGES… LIKE CHINESE… LEARN GREEK INSTEAD…

…not kidding… or maybe not…NOT?

I MISS BORAT, TODAY

• Panos, that is not Chinese, it is Korean, the Hangul alphabet designed by King Sejong the Great in the fifteenth century for the education of his people, the broad mass of whom were largely illiterate up to that time. Given that there are only 11 million Greeks, as compared to 72 million Koreans and a billion or more Chinese, you might want to reconsider that whole dead language thing; there’s obviously a lot more live ones out there along the Yellow Sea than along the Mediterranean. Oh, it’s fun to be pedantic today! ;-)

• i got the movie “300” WITH LEONIDAS”… and the movie “TROY”…
CHINA AND KOREA UNITED… AGAINST LEONIDAS , BRAD PITT AND
PANOS…ok and the 300…

Any bets… “They” wouldn’t last a day…
As (Achilles)Brad Pitt said in the movie “Troy:

“…ANYBODY ELSE????????????…”

• Akaky, can’t you get arrested for being a pedantic?

• Hey , Rafaal , i hope you are not reading all this…

…. back to our HERVE subject about Seans best both worlds:
Should we really stick with either COLOR or B&W?…
or should we feel free to sell our photos… anyway… THE CUSTOMER WANTS..
or should we try to hit two markets at the same time…
Do we see a compromise here or ABSOLUTE FREEDOM???
IM NOT TALKING ABOUT “GOOD AND BAD”…. LETS GO BEYOND THAT LIMITS…
people of this forum what you think?

can i for example enter two different photo contest… with the same photo… but… two versions(a b&w version and a color version… for lets say the “color contest”)…

• “Now that im thinking about it… he should have posted eveything in COLOR at the first place… why black and white…
why PLAY GAMES… but if you wanna play games… then STICK with something… GIVE US THE ILLUSION THAT YOU HAD A PLAN… AND ACT LIKE YOU STICKING WITH IT…?

NOT SO! One of the wonderful aspects of digital capture is that you have a choice of printing/publishing in B&W or Color. Some photos look better one way, some the other.

There are a lot of ways to look at the issue, but then, why even make it an issue?

OK, so what rule WOULD you cite and why would you cite it, against showing an image in different forms in different contexts? OR against mixing B&W and Color in an exhibition?

Michael

• from MERRIAM WEBSTER dictionary:

pedantic

Main Entry:
pe·dan·tic
Pronunciation:
\pi-ˈdan-tik\2 : narrowly, stodgily, and often ostentatiously learned
3 : unimaginative, pedestrian

No mr Shapiro…
In our culture you are not arrested of being “NARROW”…
The opposite… i think… You get arrested for being open, wide and also “charge” for that, if you know what i mean…

good morning everyone…. I-HOP is what makes the morning good!
peace…
M… Shapiro, i was kidding above,.. but stay “wide”…
dont be pedantic like me…

• Panos – you being pedantic is the biggest joke in the world. Your mind is everywhere((((())))

Think about definition #3, unimaginative, pedestrian: do you suppose that riding a bicycle would be less pedantic?

Michael

• MR? I’m not that pedantic.

My questions about B&W and Color were serious.
I’ve decided to show B&W and Color together. Just wondered if there were any valid taboos against it.

• The best part of the night was meeting Cathy and Ryan. I only wish we’d had more time together before Cathy was whisked away by her workshop. We missed you, Panos. (And David.)

Alex’s pictures were lovely; His presentation expressed a huge rift between him and the people he photographs. I’m left wondering how it’s possible to hold people/experiences at this distance. (I’m the complete opposite.)

Michael S.,

Rebecca grew up in South Dakota. She recently lost her brother and found that revisiting her native landscape brought her peace. She presented a work in progress—pictures of her hometown and community. The following short story, written by an 8 year old, is being considered as the accompanying text:

A man was born in South Dakota.
A man lived in South Dakota.
A man died in South Dakota.

Her presentation was heartfelt and complete.

• Panos this goes back to what we said before about the black and white ‘look’ of Sean’s photos. They look like quick conversions in photoshop. I think its pretty lame to submit photos and have them win in a certain style and then post the same photos somewhere else in color. It feels silly because it holds no firm ground or reason to be black and white, or in color… Kinda like when you chose to shoot color or black and white for a specific reason. Seems like he’s just playing and being amatuer sloppy.

– Ryan

• MShapiro nothing wrong with exhibiting in both “ways”
its kinds weird though, if you exhibit the SAME photo, at the same time, on the same wall, both color and b&w…

• That might actually be interesting…Having an exhibit, big gallery, every image in color and next to it a B&W rendering of the exact same image.

Or maybe it’d just be dorky?

• Anna, Becky actually moved here when she was 16. She grew up in in Rushville, IN.

RE B&W/COLOR-I guess that if your intention is to contrast color and b&w, then the above mentioned idea might be fun. (one of each) My feeling is that some images are shot for color reasons and some for mono.

Color seems to be a dangerous tool, kind of like a gun. You need to point it in the right direction. I think I wrote something about that on my blog.

I have a couple pictures, both taken the same day, same place, that I still waver back and forth on regarding color or mono. They are the ones of a woman and a woman and her husband on the big front porch of a pink house. If you look at my work in different contexts, you’re likely to see them both ways.

My general observation tells me that most art forms start out as monochromatic, then add color as they progress historically. I think that individual artists develop following the same path as the their art form. I’m just discovering color, myself.

I wonder if all that means that monochrome is the neanderthal of photography?

RE Alex’s pictures – I really like his use of color. He shoots compositionally with the care of a monochrome photographer, but the color adds definition.

OK – Someone else’s turn. I just got out of “Juno.” Good Flick.

Michael

• dorky and no indication of why its either

• Don’t know that there has to be a “why.” Sometimes things just “are.”

• things just are… Hahahaha okay if you say so bro. :-p

• Nick Yoon

Colour vs B&W – Ian Berry, a member of Magnum, said in Perpignan last year that he shoots colour print film because colour is more saleable for the Magnum archive, but he converts to B&W for his own use, whether prints, exhibitions or books.

• NICK YOON… and ALL:
DO YOU THINK THAT THE DIGITAL ERA…. created a new Species …

the ANDROGYNOUS , TRANSVESTITE, … both together..
like yin & yang like this and that and also like that and this…

QUESTION REMAIN:
When you think of your next or future assignment or essay…?

do you ever approach it in your mind as a B&W story…
or i should do it color….story?, or…
OR … DO YOU THINK “ANDROGYNOUS”…
like man and a woman at the same time… like a “freak”???
maybe.. but i love freaks!!!
like two genitalia in one body….

PEOPLE , AND OF COURSE ,,,,DAH …what do you think?
or should i say…” How , do you think????”

• I wonder what the “CHURCH”, was to say about all this new,
“androgynous,anomalous, not traditional way of photography…

and i also wonder… what the DEVIL thinks about it…

and please dont let me forget about all the “atheists” out there…
Im sorry people but we are in a full pre- election mode over here…
every vote counts.

So question remains… when you out there shooting do you see B&W… or Color??… or does not matter anymore…

• PANOS “can i for example enter two different photo contest… with the same photo… but… two versions(a b&w version and a color version… for lets say the “color contest”)…”

Absolutely! Why Not?

• david alan harvey

ALL….

sorry, but again i only have a few minutes and i can see great discussions going on….i quickly see the old color vs. black & white chat…my only question back is: what is the “vs.”? why color vs. black & white??? is there a war between color and black & white?? not for me there isn’t…..i never shot a color picture from the time i was 12 until i was 30 or so….and i do some black & white now…and my new (secret) upcoming project could include at least some black & white…frankly, i love both…i SEE in pictures…not necessarily favoring color or b&w….sometimes i am in the mood for one , sometimes the other…for example, if i see a well done book in b&w i do not think “gee, this should be in color” and vice versa…if it is a good book , it is just a good book….i will take it even further : to me, the least important discussion in photography is whether a picture is in either color or b&w…plus, i am out of time now!!!!

running… back for sunday morn cofee…and i will respond to all the above…

cheers, david

• ALL- I don’t know what happened. I thought I posted this before, but now I can’t find it, so if it is a rerun, please forgive me.

How would you feel about gathering here at my place (before I sell it, which I’m considering) this summer? The house is big enough for all of us to eat in and do a workshop if DAH will join us.

This is in southeast SD 5 miles east of Volin (for google earthers), within 15 minutes of the University of South Dakota. We have 14+ acres of trees, pasture, old farm junk, and old buildings.

There are bunches of abandoned farmsteads nearby, small towns with cafe’s and little banks – you know-rural America stuff.

There’s enough room for tents and/or trailers, and there is wifi/dsl.

This can be either a formal workshop with David or not. That is up to you and him.

This place is easy to get to; I’ll run a taxi service (within reason) to the airports.

Enough about details at this point. How many people would be interested?

Oh, 10 minutes from swimming in the Missouri River.

Anticipating,

Michael

• mike, I wouldn’t because its utterly retarded, no decision on what to represent yourself…

• Of course Michael , of course… you can do that…

my question though is about the pre-poduction …
when still at home .. debating what kinda atmosphere i want to
“give” to my photos…

people, imagine S.DALI’s paintings … black and white….
it wont work… or FRIEDA KAHLO black and white… wont work..
or Koudelka.. or PAOLO PELLEGRIN’S PHOTOS IN COLOR…
or TRENT PARKER’S (FIRST PERIOD)… not after the birth of his child)… when consciously shoots also color…

I remember the days i was broke.. i had money ONLY FOR 1 roll of film… and one camera… and one lens… more than enough…but…
BUT???, i had to choose for this ONLY one roll of film…
color or a tri-x
Times are a changing…
but i was in a COMPLETE STATE OF SHOCK WHEN I SAW SEAN’S PHOTOS IN COLOR (the ones got chosen here)…
So… i feel a little un- motivated now…
Time to go wash the car i guess… Sunshine… in the wineries…
right now… I’m opening my second “CORONA LIGHT”…

great idea…

• Panos, is that a yes you’d be interested?

• david alan harvey

MICHAEL SHAPIRO…

yes, well this is a great idea…and when i reveal my new cross country project, this could be the most symbiotic gathering of all…

cheers, david

• hell yes… any kinda ENERGY gathering… count me in…
unless its “girlfriend’s birthday”, …
it sound like an “INTELLECTUAL ORGY”, to me greek style…
We have SOCRATES= DAH,
PLATO= BOBB,… dont worry about me…
im just JUDAS….and i come in the very last minute, of the last episode… when jesus gets crucified… you know!
Anyways… its a YES!

• Gonzo journalism

Gonzo journalism is a style of journalism which is written subjectively, often including the reporter as part of the story via a first person narrative. The style tends to blend factual and fictional elements to emphasize an underlying message and engage the reader. The word Gonzo was first used in 1970 to describe an article by Hunter S. Thompson, who later popularized the style. The term has since been applied to other subjective artistic endeavors.
Gonzo journalism tends to favor style over accuracy and often uses personal experiences and emotions to provide context for the topic or event being covered. It disregards the ‘polished’ edited product favored by newspaper media and strives for the gritty factor. Use of quotes, sarcasm, humor, exaggeration, and even profanity is common. The use of Gonzo journalism portends that journalism can be truthful without striving for objectivity and is loosely equivalent to an editorial.

I DON’T KNOW PEOPLE how you feel, BUT I’M JUST GETTING REALLY EXCITED….
OVER WHAT DAH …”revealed”… above..

“…MICHAEL SHAPIRO…

yes, well this is a great idea…and when i reveal my new cross country project, this could be the most symbiotic gathering of all…

cheers, david

Posted by: david alan harvey | February 09, 2008 at 08:14 PM…”

its 5:30pm in cali… warm, t-shirt weather, … 3rd Corona light,

• DAVID, what is your summer like? I’m sure you’ll be in France on and off.

I am most in favor of mid to late June, all else being equal.

MAS

• Origin of the term

The term “Gonzo” was first used by Boston Globe editor Bill Cardoso in 1970 when he described Hunter S. Thompson’s The Kentucky Derby Is Decadent and Depraved, which was written for the June 1970 Scanlan’s Monthly, as “pure Gonzo journalism”[1]. Cardoso claimed that “gonzo” was South Boston Irish slang describing the last man standing after a drinking marathon[2]. Cardoso also claimed that it was a corruption of the French Canadian word “gonzeaux”, which means “shining path”; although, this is disputed[3]. The word may have been inspired by the 1960 hit song Gonzo by New Orleans R&B keyboardist James Booker. In the 2007 released oral biography of Hunter S. Thompson: Gonzo, it states that the term Gonzo is from the hit song by James Booker

• I just opened a book of poems by Miller Williams. It hasn’t been opened in 20 years, but it fell open to exactly the poem I wanted. This relates closely to the Gonzo Journalism post. Miller Williams is Lucinda’s daddy, and let me tell you, there’s no doubt where she learned or inherited her writing skills.

LET ME TELL YOU

how to do it from the beginning.
First notice everything:
The stain on the wallpaper
of the vacant house,
the mothball smell of a
Greyhound toilet.
Miss nothing. Memorize it.
You cannot twist the fact you do not know.

Remember
The blonde girl you saw in the spade bar.
Put a scar on her breast.
Say she left home to get away from her father
Invent whatever will support your line.
Leave out the rest.

Use metaphors: The mayor is a pig
is a metaphor
which is not to suggest
it is not a fact.
Which is irrelevant.
Nothing is less important
than a fact.

Be suspicious of any word you learned
and were proud of learning.
It will fall of the page.

in the last light
and your mother cries for him,
listen to the sound of her crying.
take notes
somewhere inside.

If there is a heaven
he will forgive you
if the line you found was a good line.

It does not have to be worth the dying.
—————————————-

I’m going to Fayetteville to photograph Miller sometime this spring.

Ciao,

Michael

• Michael S.

I could be up for that! Sounds damn intriguing.
And I promise to shoot everything in B&W and color! Maybe even sepia! Why? well..just because I can.

Seriously, very generous of you.

• “…Gonzo also occurs when an author cannot remove himself from the subject he investigates. In some cases — such as tornado chasing, wherein most documenting is done by the person

((driving the car and holding the camera))- —

the gonzo element is inherent…”

• Other uses,!!! of Gonzo

In other contexts, gonzo has come to mean “with reckless abandon,” or, more broadly, “extreme”. Gonzo porn refers to pornographic films which are filmed by a participant…!!!!!,
and as such have eliminated fictional plot and scripted dialogue and focus on the fornication. For parallel uses of gonzo, see What Is Gonzo?[4].

• No problem here with monochrome AND color (why do our discussions have to end up with a “vs”?). But I am wondering if Sean could tell us about the double use of it for the same pictures, in 2 different contexts. I am definitely perplexed, and curious.

David, anyone, are there examples out there of photographers who publish, exhibit, introduce the same essay/pictures in the 2 mediums?

I am on for this summer. But no WS, please, all campfire, songs, beer, and David telling his spookiest shooting stories, with a flashlight up his chin!

“…David, anyone, are there examples out there of photographers who publish, exhibit, introduce the same essay/pictures in the 2 mediums?…”

“…only in “American Idol” you can find something similar to this “fiasco”…

Damn Herve…!
Where do you find all those details???
You should be hired immediately by the “WRAPUP” or “WRUPUP” SHOW…! You are born to be a detective!

• but then again HERVE…
PANOS SCRATCHES HIS GREEK (UPPER) HEAD, AGAIN…

(lights turn slightly blue…. a ghost dressed in prison attire slowly enters from the upper right of the frame…)

….maybe YOU and me or maybe Ryan also… are old school…
maybe we are constipated and outmoded.. dinosaurs..
maybe Sean’s approach… of selling everything to everyone.. is the future…
Herve , i think that both of us are wrong… this is the digital era…
start putting in your wall 3 times the same crap.. one B&W, one COLOR print, and one SEPIA as Michael K. suggested, above…

fuck it, i’m going to wash the car , again…
I wonder what DAH is thinking , right now…
Sunday will be here in the west coast in a few hours… time to get ready!

• “Wanna make it witchu(3)….”

MARK LANEGAN
JOSH HOMME and
PJ HARVEY…………………FROM THE (DESERT SESSIONS)…

people this ,above, should be the song for tonite!!!!!

“Wanna make it witchu”

• MICHAEL K, HERVE… AND THE REST OF THE GANG…

New idea.,..
Why dont we start a new calendar… and start counting from the
day that JESUS died….
So all of us are 33 years younger…….

… seriously Sean what were you thinking about the world…
That they are 2 kinds of people?
The art- lovers- retards -us, black and white, lovers…!!!
and the rest of the world- the buyers – the “color” lovers…
Anyways… i loved the color-black and white photo i ‘ve seen today in that gallery…
I loved that ” COLORBLACKANDWHITENESS”… very Ansel Adams

• come on people i wanna hear some fresh opinion-s…
i get out of this retarded trip..
but still , i’m seeking some “integrity”.. here people…
or should i say …” motherfucker*s”…. “….the roof is on fire….”

o.k, i hear YOU:
“… LET the motherfuck*r burn…”

• Is anyone around?
i’ve got a message for Michael S and a report about Alex and Becky

Evidently Becky and Alex know of you. Is that right? She thinks you have a mutual friend, a photography teacher? and you have written to her? (I’m checking to make sure she doesn’t have you confused with someone else)

She is hoping to meet up with you when she is in SD over the summer and will show you her work then.

I seem to remember that she’s from the town of Hotsprings? She was photographing events…a three dog dog show, local rodeo, things like that… nice work.

• Here’s my take on (photographic) life for tonight.

Panos et al,

Alex and Becky Webb are LOVELY (I think that was the work David used as well) people. Really nice (or “sick” for the hip hop crowd) and very generous with their knowledge. It is a treat to be able to spend a weekend with them. “Workshop” is a chance to hang out and spend time together looking at work and answering any and all questions. (Ryan might not like that part.) Getting their take on life, photography…great! I am totally enjoying it.

How else would I ever have a chance to be together with them in such an intimate setting…only 8 of us?

BLOG COMMUNITY: More than ever I realize and appreciate how INCREDIBLY LUCKY we are to be able to “hang out” with David every time he has an available moment. On a DAILY basis. I’ve said it before and will say it again..WE have an ongoing workshop…total access to what David is doing, thinking, photographing and he is communicating with us about whatever we want to discuss. Who else is available like this???

Thank you David!!!

ps David, Dotty Lopez from Santa Fe Workshops…who was your assistant in San Miguel is also in the class with me.

• Anna,

i also wish we had more time together last night.
hopefully there will be other opportunities.

• Well, I finally made some actual photographs:

http://workprints.blogspot.com/

Hey, Panos, you’ve been giving me a hard time for not posting work… what do you think???

• CATHY, yes that’s the story. Ask Becky if she remembers a guy named George Fletcher.

Will you be at my house this summer with Panos, Michael K, David, me,…?

Back to sleep.

Michael

• Hey Mike,
great work…
…………!
Best,
Lassal

• Mike

great picture man with hat.

martin

• Dziekuje, Marcin

• Marcin

Mike

????????????????????????? You are from poland?

• david alan harvey

AKAKY….

my early morning sunday coffee and i jumped right into your post about ducks, Marxists and insurance….you might have lost me in there somewhere , but i really really tried….i think it might just be a sunday morning thing…lazy maybe….and i am so so in over my head with political analysis of the day to day kind, that i simply cannot go back to my university mind set and get wrapped around Marxist philosophy vs. capitalist imperialism…after banging my head against walls and having dragged my camera and notebook around the world a few times i am left thinking only that dogma and extremism on both sides of the fence leave us with pretty much the same result…whenever i have been picked up and interrogated by the secret police of either the right wing squads of say pinochet or the socialist stazi like plainclothes guys of castro , the jail walls and emotionless eyes of my controllers looked about the same…in those moments i surely would love to have had a good laugh from groucho or harpo…

your treatise makes me just want to build a log cabin in the woods and hunt for my own food and come back and cook it over a campfire…..simplicity….but alas, fantasy…so, in the meantime i am going to go to my storage locker where all of my stuff is piled high and see if i can find my life insurance policy…think i will cash that sucker in and head for some warm weather and a cold corona…

none of the above makes much sense i suppose, but you started it!!!!!!

CATHY…

i think i described becky as “lovely”, but alex??? anyway, i will have dinner with them both on tuesday, so i will get their side of the story…now, i am very very confused about one thing and maybe i missed a comment or something, but how in the world did you miss panos?? i mean he was posting “live” fron the scene…i saw his pics of alex preparing for the show…did he leave before the show??

MICHAEL S.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! my summer plans are being formulated now….i love summer…and yet, it goes by so quickly and it gets “booked up” before i know it…in any case, stay tuned….i might take this rock band on the road….

MIKE…

yes yes , very nice work…but, i could not open your profile…anyway, i would like to know more about you….

PANOS…

what happened to you on friday nite??

cheers, david

• DAVID I NEED TO REPOST THIS…
CATHY MISSED ME COZ I WASNT THERE…!!!
RYAN SHARIF, MY BEST FRIEND AND TECH GURU…was covering the Alex event with his iphone… sending photos.. to my iphone… and i, at home posting REAL TIME from the laptop….

SO ALL THE CREDIT SHOULD GO TO RYAN SHARIF…

read the original post below…. i took all the credit…..by mistake;

THIS IS PANOS..
ROLLING A FATTY,,, AT HOME ! GIRLFRIENDS BIRTHDAY, REMEMBER??????????

WELL MY FRIENDS IM REALLY AT HOME… THIS IS STILL THE “WRUPUP”(NOT WRAPUP)… WRUPUP…
7:52 pm

…BUT THE REAL HERO…. THE REAL REPORTER… IS MY GOOD FRIEND..
HALF MY AGE… GREAT PHOTOGRAPHER , RYAN SHARIF….

RYAN, IS RIGHT THIS SECOND (7:49 PM, PACIFIC)…
ATTENDING THE LECTURE, PHOTOGRAPHING THE LECTURE ,,,
BUT ONLY WITH AN” I PHONE”… THAT WAS THE DEAL…
EVERYTHING SHOULD BE DONE …AS THE “WRUPUP” SHOW…
suggests…

Posted by: Panos Skoulidas | February 08, 2008 at 10:53 PM

also:

PEOPLE VISIT HIS BLOG TOMORROW TO SEE WHAT HE THINKS… BECAUSE HE (RYAN SHARIF) IS ACTUALLY THERE WITH CATHY AND ANNA… NOT ME… he is sending photos through his iphone and im home, drinking CUTTY SHARK, listening at some old “BIRTHDAY PARTY…

HIS BLOG BELOW:

http://blog.ryansharif.com/

Posted by: Panos Skoulidas | February 08, 2008 at 11:02 PM

• Cathy, you are right. Great little workshop going on here. Thanks to The Maestro.

Speaking of workshops, who from this insane crowd is going to be at the festival of the photograph in June?

• DAVID – thank you. My birthday was fine.

I’m sending an email. Please watch for it.

Ciao
Michael

• Michael S, I will be in France til’ July 17th. I hope the gathering of the tribe will be after.

David, are we getting any closer to the idea of a cross country bus trip you once mentionned? getting warmer or colder?

• Herve, just waiting on DAH, but that sounds fine, so far.
Michael

• marcin

Hi

I need advice. Someone know with one is better?
Nikon Coolscan 4000
Nikon Coolscan V LS-50 ED
or
Epson 4990, 4870

marcin

• Now that I have had some time to let the lecture sink in, and heard some responses and comments to my initial report I’ll rereport… I think Herve made an excellent point about going to the lecture with predetermined ideas on what to expect… Rebecca’s lecture was very inspiring to me, and it might be that I relate with her more since she hasn’t been in the ‘game’ as long as Alex… Another poster here wrote that lectures might not be Alex’s forte… For me it has to be both explanations and one more… Alex’s work on the border in Mexico is probably the most powerful work for me. It really exposes people to the life around the border, and now that I think about it I swear before Friday, I thought Alex was hispanic. For me that makes a difference in how I interpret the work. I don’t know Alex’s personal stance or feeling on the issue of illegal immigration, but that is almost irrelevant. My mother is from Nicaragua so I speak spanish and have many many friends here including some family from Mexico. So the issue of illegal immigration for me is something very important and special… and I don’t know whether it’s the fact that Alex is an American or the fact that he is not Hispanic, but for some reason the work doesn’t have the same power FOR ME please remember FOR ME.

I know many people here won’t and can’t understand this feeling of someone photographing ‘your people’ the way I and others feel it. I am the first generation from both my families to be born here in the US so I still feel like I am a citizen in my mother and father’s respective countries.

Probably retarted statements by me above, but they are true and meant….

– Ryan

Check out Alex and Rebecca’s lecture photos on my blog http://blog.ryansharif.com

• Marcin the Nikon Super COOLSCAN 9000 ED is the way to go if you can. I have been working with it for several years with a client of mine who is a photographer and archives all her film and slide stuff…. The main advantage to it is that you can get an adapter that lets you scan many many pieces of film at a time…. Actually for David, you probably still remember her and she says hi to you… I won’t devulge any names though. ryan@ryansharif.com is my email Marcin if you any more questions on the subject. I have lots of info on color management, file size, film preperation, etc….

Cathy your probably right about your comment on me, I honestly am to arrogant when it comes to photography, and Panos and I have had many heated discussions on the subject… ultimately he is right 75% of the time, and it’s obvious I’m a arrogant 20 year old photographer with not as much experience…

• Ryan,

I mean this with sincere respect and genuine honesty. Not trying to be rude…

But I have to say it really is quite sad that your thoughts about Alex’s work has changed due to his non-Hispanicness. Can you elaborate a little more on why you feel this way? Why should that have any bearing whatsoever?

• Mike I tried to write it out a couple of times and each time I had to hit the delete button on the entire thing. Everything that I can come up with Is contradictory to ideals I hold. Its the feeling of someone coming to your home and photographing your family and then letting to whole world look at it, whereas if someone in the family took the photos it’d be okay

• Well, I guess I can relate to that sentiment…a little. Kinda like, I can say whatever I want about my brother, but if someone else does there’ll be a fight!

But in this case, when I think about all the photographers in Magnum or VII or what have you, Think of all the images we’d have never seen if they only shot within their ethnic realm. I don’t think Harvey has hispanic blood in him–don’t know for sure–but man, his Divided Soul doesn’t get better or worse one way or the other. It kills, no matter. I’m sure you feel the same, otherwise I doubt you’d be here. But anyway…I suppose one has to appreciate your honesty, your candor. Hope you can work it out within…for yourself, no one else.

Cheers.

• marcin

Ryan

The COOLSCAN 9000 ED is to expensive for me. I want expend more money for films not for next toy. I hope Coolscan V LS-50 ED will enough good, maybe not best but just good. I just need scanner.

marcin

• MR. HARVEY,

No need to to worry about not making sense. It is difficult to make sense of anything while pondering the deeper questions of whether God exists and why a duck should care one way or the other if He does or not. It is not for us mere mortals to ponder these questions. Those people who tell us that it must make sense fail to realize that all of what we call sense is merely a societal construct made from defective Legos and worn down bars of Ivory soap. I would advise against building a cabin in the woods unless you can get cable and pizza delivery. You will note that most of the world’s troubles these days occur in places where cable and pizza delivery are nonexistent. Why is this so? Who knows? Maybe the duck knows, but who knows why a duck? The philosophical rings you can run when you really put your mind to it is truly amazing.

• “and I don’t know whether it’s the fact that Alex is an American or the fact that he is not Hispanic, but for some reason the work doesn’t have the same power FOR ME please remember FOR ME.”

Ryan, I don’t contribute much to this blog. I can barely “keep up” with it. That said, I believe you’re “thinking” too much. The fact is, the pictures resonated with you when you first saw them. They ARE great photographs. For the most part no matter how hard, easy or anything else that’s involved with photographs doesn’t really matter. It’s the final picture that matters (obviously, this is a general statement, please). Photography is what we do. We come in and out of peoples lives and try to tell stories about them. Some like Alex and, uh, the guy who started this mess (DAH – LOL), do it very well. It’s what we do. I’d suggest getting over it, Ryan. BTW, how do you feel about DAH’s hip-hop photographs?

• And I wish to apologize to everyone here for using the singular is in that last sentence when I should have used the plural are. Yes, I am being rapped over the knuckles by my subconcious nun even I type this.

• MARCIN-the easy answer is that film scanners are totally superior to flatbed scanners.

Does that help at all?

• let me put it this way guys, I work for a portrait company in Santa Monica, CA. As we speak I am at a kids’ soccer practice photographing all the kids for their parents so they can have a action shot of their kids. This enviroment spawns the need to look up to more ‘respected’ forms of photography. In other words I’m not where some of you are where you are actually doing something artistic, so I have all this time and philosophy looking on the outside. If I was ‘swimming’ I probably would stop worrying how to swim and just do it… On the other side this is the first post where I am actually posting. I haven’t been be because its so east to read what other people have to say, but to actually participate and expose your ignorances and biases is really hard

• Akaky said: “It is difficult to make sense of anything while pondering the deeper questions of whether God exists and why a duck should care one way or the other if He does or not. It is not for us mere mortals to ponder these questions.”

Um, well…no, I’d say it is for us “mere mortals” to ponder these and so many other questions. It’s what makes us human. And it’s what keeps us entertained. How boring life would be without these types of ponderings! But maybe your were simply being facetious and I too serious, in which case…nevermind. ;^}

• RULES/CAVIATS/ISMS

Eight years ago I took my first trip to the Arctic, a little Inuit village called Arviat. By a little networking, I procured the use of a house owned by a teacher in their school system right on the shore of Hudson Bay. I took my first pictures of the Inuit during the week surrounding X-mas.

When I was making arrangements to go back, I had a deal worked out with the local B&B to stay free in exchange for some prints. As the time approached, however, this white person, who had appointed herself guardian of the oppressed, said that since I had not cleared the shoot with the village elders the year before, she would no longer offer me free room and board. I, of course, was astonished, since nobody had ever mentioned even the existence of the elders, much less the need to consult with them. I ended up going to a different village, twice…

Where I was informed that the Inuit themselves did not have any reason not to want me to photograph and that they did not understand this woman’s actions.

This idea of deciding whether other peoples’ actions/ thoughts are proper or not is becoming ubiquitous, and I find it disturbing. For myself, I don’t care who does what, as long as it doesn’t harm anyone.

I think the current phrase is PC. Sorry, but we have to get beyond PC. We have to maintain an honest pure soul in ourselves. We cannot worry what race someone is, whether he/she has the right to photograph or make a statement about something.

Personally, I think that an outsider’s view of a situation has its own special merits.

This has been a mal-organized ramble, but I hope someone with more eloquence can address the issue.

Alex takes beautiful photos. They are powerful. What goes on in his head? Who cares except for purposes of learning how to go there yourself if you so desire!

Hey Bob, where are you?

Michael

• GATHERING – Herve would like to come after mid July. No one else has made any statements about time, and I know that Magnum’s annual meeting will be in June (or early July?) so last half of the summer is probably best to shoot for.

Becky told me that she and Alex will be here sometime in July and be around for quite awhile working on some projects.

Bob Black said he wants to come this summer with the oft talked about Marina and Dima.

So far, then, David, Panos, Herve, Michael K, Bob. Could use more shooters for critical mass, and what about the California Women?

I’ve been making a mental list of photo ops around here. I’ll discuss it with David when the time comes, so he can give instructions/assignments/suggestions as he sees fit.

DAVID – Could you send your cell number to me via email? michael@photonphotos.com

Ciao

Michael

• Ryan, I think this is a very valid topic, you raised. How a “native” perceives the work of a non-native on his country or culture. I am not sure if you said that first you liked Alex Webb’s work on the hispanic border culture, then a bit less when finding out he was not hispanic.

the thing is, it seems that few are interested or wondering what natives think of such type of work or books. maybe we are wrong, or maybe it is not important, coz’ it’s also about photography rather than just culture, and as in Thailand, people often wonder why in the hell you are taking pictures of people who are not your family.

They may not relate to the act of witnessing with a camera, rather than having a judgement on what the gringo or Farang (gringo in thai) is coming up with about their culture.

Also, the photographer is physically an outsider, I mean when the shot is taken, he/she is. For a snap of a second you are outside looking in, and this is much of what photography is about.

That outsider input, would characterize a native photographer too. The act of photography require, for all photographers that mental stepping back, while its mechanics clearly set you off the subject, the culture, the people.

Well, I actually think that’s not limiting, but is the greatness of photography that outside looking in quality.

Yet, just to add water to your argument, I like W Klein a lot, but his PARIS/KLEIN is 90% KLEIN and the rest rather IN Paris, than about Paris.
That’s OK though, but title should be paris (incidentally)/KLEIN ! :-)

• david alan harvey

RYAN…

this is a great topic…i think i should do a whole post on it….

i will say this quickly…if we eliminated all of the art (painting, film making, photography) made by artists “outside” of their own culture/family, we would be eliminating most of the art in the world!!!

however, i get your point….i can see why this would be something to think about….i have my opinions, but i want to hear others first…if the thread unravels here, so be it…if not i will get a new post up on it soonest…

thanks for thinking and thanks for being honest enough to bring it up…..

cheers, david

• There has been a lot said lately – well-since—ah-Gene Smith – about the photographer getting into the scene. In fact, it has become a mantra. It seems to have something to do with Capa’s “…closer.” So, what you’ve got is

photographers saying to other photographers – “you need to get more in their face,” and PC people saying to photogs- “are you violating anyone’s space?”

OK, so you can either shoot from the outside in/toward/at-HCB
or you can put yourself in the middle and shoot out – Smith

What is the matter with either one of these approaches? (or anything in between?)

So, can I take pictures of women or old men or kids or dogs or cats?

I am part way through War Photographer. WOW! Can Nachtwey take pictures of people in Africa, Indonesia, Kosovo…?

Maybe need to view everything as humanity. Isn’t that what we’re photographing? (even my dog)

Michael

PS Wow, thanks to the people who have sent me phone numbers. Here’s where we are tentatively on dates – after July 17, excluding week of August 10. I suspect, also, that teachers (Bob) can’t go too late into August. Of course, the majority and DAH will win out over impossible holdouts.

MAS

• Michael,

A gathering sounds amazing … road trips to South Dakota, slide shows on sheets hanging in the yard, a campfire, good beer, a band (?) … perhaps I’m getting carried away but we’ve done similar things at our little place in the woods … the last one got a little carried away with 500 people, 3 bands, a two-story sound/multimedia stage, two screens stage right and left … hippy buses and mercedes in the field, state patrol on the hill.

Sorry, flashback :)) Seriously, it sounds great, i’ll hop a bus, or a train, or thumb my way and bring my tent. The DAH Convergence. Say when and i’ll be there! And I’d be happy to come a little early to help. I’ve been planning on an extended road trip this summer, or earlier … fits so well since I’ve been looking for a destination (both figuratively and literally) as a touchstone … road trip, road trip, road trip.

• Tom, sounds great. You’re in. Wow, and the idea of slideshows outside sounds cool. We have enough barns to hang sheets on. Of course, we also have room in the house to set up real screens.

Anyway, what might be cool is to do some mini caravans to and from here. For me it would probably have to be from not to.

DAVID – in case you need to break up your road trip by flying in or out for one of your one day meetings – Omaha is 2 1/2 hours, Mpls can be gotten to on Northwestern from Sioux Falls which is less than an hour from here.

Michael

• I think it does make a difference who the authorship is by. Even if the pictures are the same… this was fairly much explored in a short story by Borges called Pierre Menard, Author of El Quijote, in which a Frenchman in the 20th century writes El Quijote word by word and it’s argued how much harder it was for him than for Cervantes, who lived in his time and used with naturality the common language of the time.

• David, thanks for stopping by my newborn blog… and thanks so much for creating this community… everyone here inspired me to start taking pictures again, so I thank everyone here for that. I did edit my profile, but basically, I’m now a hobbyist… weekend and vacation photography, strictly for fun.

I did have some training long ago, and had a photo job, too. Worked porno in Vegas for a guy named Pistol. Did that for a couple of years. That was interesting. Learned that regardless of what R. Capa said, there is such a thing as too close. I have a real job now, but it has nothing to do with photography.

I am a little disappointed with the results of my efforts… it’s a start, but I know I have better pictures in me. How to get them is the question, and that’s why I’m here. Anyone have any advice?

Michael K… I believe I will go to the festival in Virginia, sounds like fun and I can take the train down.

Marcin… nie jestem Polaka, Amerikaninem w Nowym Yorku… tylko chodzilem do szkoly na jezyka polskiego duzo lat temu… mowie po polsku, ale nie dobrze. Lato, dojechalem do Polski… na poludniu, Krakow, Krynica, Tylicz, Przeszczyna, i Wroclaw. Best vacation of my life, what a beautiful country and I can’t wait to return. Gdzie mieszkasz?

• Mike

In wroclaw. Nice to see that sombody on the world want to learn polish langage. I’m Impressed.
:)
great works. Keep going!

• Joni, maybe the issue is whom the work is for. Nachtwey shoots for the world at large, not the starving war torn cultures. They already know how it is, just as

folks at the Mexican border already know what it’s like there; it’s the rest of whom Alex shoots for (besides himself).

Michael

• MIKE SAID:

http://workprints.blogspot.com/

Hey, Panos, you’ve been giving me a hard time for not posting work… what do you think???

Posted by: mike | February 10, 2008 at 05:40 AM

PANOS SAYS: DOPE, motherfucker, dope… panos loves it…
Simply impressed… where you been hiding

• DAVID SAID ABOVE:

“…RYAN…

this is a great topic…i think i should do a whole post on it….
…thanks for thinking and thanks for being honest enough to bring it up…..

cheers, david

Posted by: david alan harvey | February 10, 2008 at 02:24 PM…”

Now i live in L.A… for 11 years.. My true opinion as a white looking american.. Enough with the immigrants….
They should go back to their countries… about “african americans”???? …
Sorry but why did they come here?… what made them leave beautiful Africa to come here in the first place…? Was it the love for money????… who knows…
but people vote for the Republicans… lets built more churches,
lets dedicate our life to the Lord, JESUS. I am recently “saved”…
Lets take away from our youth the “dirty” music like RAP…
NO MORE DRUGS… more playgrounds, libraries… there are “good”
magazines out there like the “NATGEO”…full of “Alex Webb’s ”
photos”… arresting “mexican-hispanic” immigrants… How did the “SNITCH” made it there in the first place…?

IT’S HARD TO BE BLACK OR BROWN IN THIS WHITE WORLD…

Ryan, thanks for bringing it up…. and that’s the reason you are my friend…and not only…
I “dig” your hispanic-lebanese upbringing… bitch…
Your “genes” know more than the average greek or white idiot…!

… and DAVID… THANKS FOR ALLOWING THE REAL SHIT IN THIS FORUM… BY THE WAY… completely in public…
I (panos), want to admit that i never thought of you as a “WHITE” motherfucker… buddha has no color….

people , sorry for my RACISM, but fuck the white world…

hey… M Shapiro… can i get arrested for being racist in public???

• “NIKOS ECONOMOPOULOS” is greek “MAGNUM” photographer…
He is honest enough to shoot, record, the areas that “he knows well”
Things connected to his heart…
MShapiro… NO, YOU CANT PHOTOGRAPH CATS IF YOU HATE THEM,
YOU CANT PHOTOGRAPH THE POOR IF YOU ARE NOT POOR, YOU CANT PHOTOGRAPH JUNKIES IF YOU ARE NOT A JUNKIE…
YOU ARE A HYPOCRIT IF YOU PHOTOGRAPH PROSTITUTES AND NOT LIKE THEM… YOU ARE A “SNITCH” IF YOU PHOTOGRAPH THE “ARRESTED BUT YOU WORK FOR THE POLICE…
YOU KNOW WHAT… F**K YOU …ALL OF YOU…
You are a SNITCH… if you dont get into it yourself…
GET INVOLVED …THINK GONZO, …. CONNECT… BLEED…

• Nachtwey shoots for the world at large, not the starving war torn cultures.

…MShapiro… yes he does.. but if you ever visited his website…
which im sure you did… somewhere in the beginning he says that the “EVENTS YOU WILL SEE , SHOULD NOT BE REPEATED…”

you see what he is saying?

NACHTWEY… for me is the EVEL KNIEVEL of photography…
He left MAGNUM when he realized that a CANON MARK II is better than a LEICA M6…
HE THINKS IS THE “ULTIMATE EXTREME”… he is what “JAY-Z “is for
HIP-HOP…. but if you ask me i would rather hung with “NAS”…
… so FUCK “NACHTWEY”… sorry i didnt mean it….
… i was suppose to say fuck “JAY-Z”…
peace

• MARCIN SAID:
“…Mike

In wroclaw. Nice to see that sombody on the world want to learn polish langage. I’m Impressed.
:)
great works. Keep going!

Posted by: Marcin | February 10, 2008 at 04:08 PM…”

PANOS SAYS:
What’s so impressive Marcin???

Look at Ryan’s skills… he speaks GREEK, GERMAN, SPANISH , ENGLISH, GERMAN, DEMONOID1, AZUREUS2,… CZECH…and lately he started… RUSSIAN… just to read DOSTOYFSKI… what do i know!???

and why do you waste everyone’s time by asking that crap…
if you already decided… or bought what you wanted?
Dude, TIME, is valuable over here????
Pleazseee, get involved… or go use the scanner you just bought…

seriously RYAN and MARCIN?:…, what’s so impressive about speaking more than one tongue?????
Its a survival… thing ….

• GO TO SLEEP:

• Panos

Nikon Coolscan V LS-50 ED
or
Epson 4990, 4870
and maybe someone used and will know.
I still have not idea witch one choose.
This is very easy question. Is’nt it?

2. I subscribe myselve “martin”, not “marcin” because polish language is very dificoult (like chinese) and foreigners (for me) must practise to pronounce my name. And my both names is just tortures for them.

3. Panos i’m little tired that you are so much negative to everything and everyone, so I’m truly sorry that i waste your value time.
peace

• Marcin,

I use a Nikon coolscan 5000 ED. It is very good for slides but I found it not so good with negative strips. I think a flat bed scanner is better for that. I’ve used the coolscan 50 also and it is also good. If you have the money I’d go for the 5000.

I had read stories about the Nikon not being reliable at times, but I don’t really have any problems. Mine has frozen a couple of times but what digital equipment doesn’t in its life time.

I have a friend who scans medium format on a Epson and he likes it.

I think either one would be good for you.

My grandfather was Polish. My name is nothing like yours, but even mine gets pronounced in different ways now and again.

I might just be in touch with you about Poland one day.

Best,

Justin

• Hi, Mr. David Harvey…

Meu nome Carla Bispo nós publicamos uma matéria juntos na NG sobre hip hop (abril/2007).
A diferença entre nós é que aprendo muito com suas imagens.

Boa sorte e um grande abraço!

Parabéns pela página.

Carla Bispo