tomorrow is the shortest day of the year in the northern hemisphere….dark ….spring seems a long way off…jimmy buffetland is but a dream….and yet, cold bitter charles dickens winter does not really begin in my mind until after the holidays…because it seems we squeak through a good bit of winter with no problem because of so many family activities, gathering with friends etc etc…the "hammer" does not really come down until new years day…at least , this is how it works in my mind…
i am off in half an hour to see my mother and family in colorado…no work….just good cooking, get my laundry done, family games, and keep the fireplace going…relax….try try try to stay away from the computer, cell phone, and all the entrapments of "real life"….escape to home….the best trip of all….my "jetlag" time table is so mixed up now, that it does not make any difference….i can always sleep in my mother’s house…
at some point in the next day or so , i will catch up with all of your comments and respond…the bag/book winners should receive their "stash" before Christmas…everything is to be fedexed out to the "magnificent seven" today….90% of what i am supposed to have done by now is done…there is always always that other 10%!! but, mostly i will try to forget that undone 10%…chill out….pretend all is well all around….
i cannot resist one short question to you before stumbling down the stairs and step into the pre-dawn cold and waiting airport bound taxi with a probably "too early morning grumpy driver" (i am in a good mood, so i will attempt cheerful conversation)…..so, does the holidays season somehow make you depressed because the year is "over", days are short and busy, and you did not quite get everything done ?? or are you uplifted by family gatherings etc. and the chance to "start over" with the new year coming??
Thanks Robert, I reciprocate the compliment with regard to your site too. It’s good to be able to visit other sites within the Community. You seem to be well-travelled, I love to travel and hope to visit several places in the new year.
Your site has many good links: I’d not thought of that!
Best wishes for Christmas and New Year,
Mike.
Merry Christmas to you all!
Glædelig Jul – Frohe Weinhachten – Juullimi pilluaritsi – Joyeux Noël
MICHAEL…
your point is well taken….i can only say that i think that some of the so called “lurkers” are going to leap ahead very quickly with the photographs that they have produced for our forum…our future funding for the grants that i intend to give to many more photographers next year than the one i can give now, will depend on both the quality of the writing AND obviously the quality of the photography produced…the total package will sing i believe…so far, we have created this whole forum mostly with writing and with the majority of the visuals coming from students in my workshops…
let us all hold our judgement on the “lurkers”…..i think you have certainly done your part michael to keep this community going strong….when you see all of the picture choices, you will have even more to write about than ever before!!!
peace, david
MICHAEL
I agree with what you say, in part…
I must say though, while you speak of the forum that exists here, for a long time it was just a blog for me.
I cannot remember when I first started reading the blog, but it was certainly not from the start… I had quite a bit of catching up to do, I remember, and initially lost track reading “backwards” in time…
Only occasionally would I dip into the comments to see the answers to some of David’s questions… and even then, it was quite a while before I started to comment myself; one thing that made me comfortable with commenting was the sense of community, the rapport between David and regular readers and posters, and indeed those that had attended his workshops…
I now see it as a forum as much as I do David’s blog, but I think many of his readers are just that: “his readers”, that connect with the blog and may be lurkers in the context of the “forum”, but certainly do not see themselves as that… this from one who was certainly a lurker for a long time. ;-)
L.
David, Asher, and Liam…(and others)
Thank you for your thoughts. And for taking my comments in the proper spirit! I believe we are on the same page ultimately. For the good of the DAH community we are all contributing in different–not better, not worse, just different ways.
David, I have no doubt the members who have been more shy are producing work that is outstanding. As I said above, I would never suggest they are not worthy. I am interested in learning from them as well…all of us can and do have much to teach, and learn.
Also, when you say I will have more to write about when the “lurkers” show their work, that’s great…but to be honest I’d be happy to write less in the future now that your blog seems to have taken on a life of its own. It’s on cruise control now…it seems.
I’d love to do nothing but shoot and submit for critique; shoot and submit, shoot and submit, have a beer with you and chat, learn, meet a few members here and there and compare notes, learn more, maybe even help…and ultimately, who knows…”live the dream!”
In the end writing is not something I’m terribly comfortable with anyway. I’m simply trying to stay in touch with, and in that very small way contribute to, the DAH experience!
Cheers to all!
MICHAEL, LIAM, ASHER…ALL
a big p.s. to the whole matter of “contributing”….i just realized that most of the readers who write to me in private do so because english is not their first language and some are just shy to write in english…i am sure this accounts for most of the “non-writers” here…
cheers, david
i can only say that i think that some of the so called “lurkers” are going to leap ahead
————
Why not, there is hardly any relation between being active with contributions on a blog and the quality of imagery one can achieve with a camera.
Except that I can see that if photography was to be less of a hobby, but an activity involving me beyond shooting when I can and want, the blog would be less of a daily focus activity. Different levels of intensity in certain endeavours affect others.
To Mr. Harvey and everyone here, a very Merry Christmas and a Happy and Prosperous New Year. I really mean that, even if, as the Christmas season goes on and on and on, and on…you get my point, I’m sure, I am starting to believe that Ebeneezer Scrooge was a deepy misunderstood man.
Best of Holiday wishes to all—Michigan is definitely having a white Christmas!
Merry Christmas,
David M
@Michael K.
My deepest thanks to you for taking on the plight of the vociferous! Or since we are writing rather than talking would it be called having a “big hand?” :)
In the case of my comments above, as far as I can recall this is the first time I have been “outspoken” here on the blog… (but then again my memory is limited) I wasn’t intending to be critical in any way…just responding here publicly to my husband’s private comment that it was not at all “surprising” that most of the assignment submissions came from people who we weren’t familiar with on the blog. I could say more at this point but will keep my hand closed. :))
Anyhow, I’m not looking to rehash any point of view but just to let you know that I totally can appreciate where you are coming from regarding wanting to post less and “shoot and submit” more…I am hoping to be less visible here “for good or ill” in the days to come!
Warm & peaceful holidays to you, Cathy.
Thanks.
just going back to the editing process, I was at a blog called, a photo editor. he/she is an annonymous national magazine editor. they said when editing a story they basically go on the strength of the shots and the read the story after. although they probably already know the story to a certain degree, I thought this was an interesting approach. wonder if david has a simmilar approach.
How important is it to know the story before editing?
I think its tough to edit your own work, one gets attached to an image for various reasons, but how to find images that have universal appeal is beyond my comprehension.
what are we looking for in an edit?
a formula of shots? the good, the bad, the ugly, the obscure, the juxtapose, the emotional, the time? all of the above?
how do you decide whats a good shot?
is that instict, a shot that reminds you of something or shocks you, as cathy was mentioning previously. are papparazi good photographers, they get scrutinized and a bad rap, but we all look and talk about their pics.
I remember at school one of the great teachers there was Prof S Santabinez, he was always really honest, esp at class critique. he had a bad reputation for being a little to blunt w/ his assesment. but it was real, you knew where you stood. if he liked the image it was the same kind of intensity. point is that the discussion was open, although at times painfull, you knew your bearings or position relative to things, it was helpfull.
just a thought, but what if we put it to the whole group to decide the edit, and awardee of giant bundle of doll-hairs.
by vote.
that would extremly transparent and also inclusive. democratic.
CATHY…
you are still interpreting it wrong!!! or rather, your husband is not exactly right…remember, now the stipend offer came AFTER most of the uploads were already in….i watched how it went…very few new people came in after the stipend offer….and, as i said, most of the non-writers are non-english speakers or are very uncomfortable writing in english…
my worst fear is that after someone receives the stipend, that negative floodgates will open…if this does not happen, then i will continue raising funds for worthy photographers….if paranoia and neg vibes come in after all of this effort, then i will stop the forum immediately….
in the meantime, i am going to assume the best…and i wish you and your husband and family a terrific holiday ….
PEACE…..david
Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2388/2134247156_cecf833a15_o.jpg
FWIW – The assignment peaked with my submission. David, You made me do things I enjoyed. Thank You.
DAVID,
WOW!!! I am HORRIFIED and so sorry that anything I have written here could cause you such distress that you would make the leap in your mind to even consider ending the blog. I sincerely hope your fear of “paranoia and neg vibes” has nothing to do with me but I seriously have to wonder since you wrote it in a comment directed to me.
Please re-read my last comment to Michael to make sure you are not misunderstanding. I received your comment and that was the end of it. Story over. In writing to Michael I was referring back to the chain of events previous to your last comment to me with NO additional interpretation. The part about my husband was only to explain what initiated my ORIGINAL comment…not to make any NEW comment, so I do not understand your getting upset that I am “STILL” not getting it. I GOT IT, believe me, I GOT IT!
What I also get loud and clear is that much misunderstanding and confusion come from “spirited dialog” here. This is not my M.O. and I am very uncomfortable with what has transpired.
I have been extremely positive in all my many postings since the inception of this blog. The comment on this thread was also not written to be “negative” in any way… I made sure to go back and re-comment several times to make sure no one was offended but it seems as though I offended you, or at the very least poked at an area that you are very sensitive about. Again, please accept my sincere apologies.
Even before your last comment I told Michael that joining the ranks of the “quiet” seems like the way to go for me. The Observer was a nickname given to me long before I became serious about photography. Observing and reading what others have to say and keeping out of the line of fire seems like a better way to go than being one of (as Michael so well put it)
“the people who put it out there, the folks willing to embarrass themselves with questions”
There doesn’t seem to be anything gained by it.
Happy Holidays David and All.
Herve: “Why not, there is hardly any relation between being active with contributions on a blog and the quality of imagery one can achieve with a camera. ”
I´d add that the more time you spend commenting stuff online the less time you spend shooting (and I´m guilty to start with!). Merry christmas to all.
sorry David
love your blog, I like the vibes here. its good positive stuff.
just folding thoughts around in my head.
seasons greetings to all
People should just relax…you guys are ruining a great thing. Remember, this is only the BEGINNING!
No, no…Rafal. Nobody’s ruining anything. This is just discussion. Nothing bad here. Birthing pains if you will.
Peace.
Birthing pains…
Being born on Christmas Day. My Mother says I ruined her Christmas dinner.
On top of that, I was the middle child and left handed. Try looking through a camera with your left eye, focusing is not a
problem but your nose gets in the way.
Growing up my Grandmother thought it was funny to give me gifts that came in pairs, like a pair of socks. She would explain, “the left sock is for your Birthday and the right one is for Christmas”, bring down the house in laughter. Gloves were a better gift, I always knew which one was for which occasion.
To this day someone will ask me if I felt cheated at Christmas time as a child, NO! Just loved by a great family.
As tradition his Christmas Day, my 53 Birthday, I will receive a pair of socks for someone, don’t know who, it’s always someone
different with my Grandmother’s joke to follow.
I was really amused by the “Lurkers and Writers” thing. Very funny!
Happy Christmas to all…
Ha!
Well signed Lurker137…
DAVID:
I am pleased to hear the stipend did not open the floodgates; should set many here at ease… I am a shameless procrastinator, and I think I was about to upload at the 11th hour when the extension came through… a blessing of time, rather than potential financial reward. As it was, it also allowed me the gap to approach the shoot differently, even though my tardiness lost me the opportunity to upload more images.
Also, I think someone mentioned something about 250 photographers being attracted by the money, given that it was a large number? I find it very had to imagine that there are not at least 250 readers for every post, given the amount of comments… and your mentioning those that are shy to write makes perfect sense to someone who comes from a country of 11 official languages (and shudders to write in one that he actually speaks to his family, namely Afrikaans!)
In any case, I doubt that there will be negative floodgates opening after the stipend is announced; there seems to be a consensus amongst many here that feedback is really what they are looking for, as well as a chance to see a variety of your top selections (and even then, more for the purpose of education than excelling).
Anyway, I am off to my own family gathering… Merry Christmas all… Geseende Kerfees en ‘n voospoedige nuwe jaar!
L.
David & all fellow readers…
blessin’s to you and your family in this festive season. Have a wonderfull day surrounded by love & joy…
’bout all the “negative” stuff; we all learned more during this year from a respected professional Magnum photographer to whom we would never have had access to if it wasn’t for David’s generosity of spirit and enduring patience with us…and that’s the beauty of this forum; whosoever (don’t think that’s a word but I happen to live in the same country as Liam — 11 languages & isicamtho (tsotsitaal) –) receives the award and those that get published; whether regulars or not, certainly produced something worthy in a couple of months…and I, for one, really look forward to the criticism and review of the work (when published) in order to learn more..
peace|
David & all fellow readers…
blessin’s to you and your family in this festive season. Have a wonderfull day surrounded by love & joy…
’bout all the “negative” stuff; we all learned more during this year from a respected Magnum professional photographer to whom we would never have had access to if it wasn’t for David’s generosity of spirit and enduring patience with us…and that’s the beauty of this forum; whosoever (don’t think that’s a word but I happen to stay in the same country as Liam — 11 languages & isicamtho) receives the award and those that get published; whether regulars or not, certainly produced something worthy in a couple of months..and I, for one, really look forward to the criticism and review of the work (when published) in order to learn more..
peace|
wow: 5 days away…so much ;)))
first: merry christmas all! :))))
2nd: on the issue of community (writer/lurker):
a community is made up of all the members of that group, those who speak and who those who do not…this is above all, a blog/community born of and brought together by a singular act: phototgrpahy!…and dah’s mad energy for sparking thought and celebration…
I feel inspired by the living and negotiation of this blog:sometimes that’s words sometimes that by the photography…the world is packed with 1,000,000′s of photogrpahers and if david received only (ONLY) 250 submissions, that pretty indicative to me that all the submissions were from DAH Blog members, otherwise he would have received 5,000 submissions…..
i totally cant comprehend the concerns about writers vs lurkers…i mean, who has been here since January other than Martin and and some photographs who dont even show up anymore?…i personally know 1 lurker whose work is awesome but who doesnt feel comfortable “writing” anything here….
bring and forward and swell and celebrate all, to celebrate all….that;’s what i say…
again: fuck the stipend, instead what could be more extraordinary that to have your pics seen by so many people, photographers/editors/friends/strangers/community…ambition is an empty thing for all of our work shall diminish and disappear, but how bouyant the moments when we have, for a brief start-dust moment, to have some small work be seen by those, like ourselves, that cherish photography…
I say: celebrate all who’ve contributed: be they lurkers or stalkers or those, like me, who runnethatthemouth :))
as this holiday reminds: COME ONE AND ALL!!! :))
RUNNING, GONE for 5 more days
HAPPY CHRISTMAS Y’ALL
BOB
Bob,
I fully agree. Fuck the stipend, who was in it for the money? As I said before, Im shocked ONLY 250 people submitted stuff. I expected thousands to do so.
People are treating this as the be all and end all when it is only the beginning, a test run of what can be expected from a community of amateurs of varying ability, time and access to subjects. Its a baby step in an exciting direction, lets not spoil it by bickering abiout who is and isnt a part of this community.
To DAH and all his elves, as well as all the comment contributors, thank you for all you do to further the discussion and evolution of photography. We are all truly fortunate to have a forum like this to participate in. For many of us, this is an absolute oasis within both the inter and outer nets.
I will say, as a rightfully rarely posting reader, that we should count our blessings that not everyone submits comments. Less is more, correct? (what is your saying David, about only showing your good work?) We have no deficit of discussion here. Perhaps, too, the writers can take pride in understanding that often their words actually speak for many of us, who thus refrain from posting in an effort to avoid redundancy. redundancy.
And so enough of that jibberish.
I look forward to seeing all the work submitted. Thanks to all who are sharing their work, and to David for being the Sharer Supreme.
Mostly Quiet Max
Many of you, I am sure, know about Bilal and the ordeal he is going thru, others maybe not, on this Christmas day, my thoughts go to him and his family. I think his case should be taken up more vocally by all press and war photographers.
http://www.freebilal.org/
hi folks,
i hope everyone is having a fantastic christmas. for what is worth i’d like to add my support to what bob said in his most recent post. why make an issue out of something that doesn’t matter. lets keep this thing free a cynical judgement, there’s to much of that around and i’d rather it not creep in here.
take care everyone, enjoy christmas and the new year.
Jason
Hmmmm…
No matter how eloquently or poetically it is conveyed, “fuck the stipend” seems an unhelpful reaction. (Though, I can see the emotion that drives such a comment.)
The stipend was offered by a great man for a great cause. As I mentioned before it will most likely be a big help to whomever receives it. It is not to be dismissed as something impure.
Unfortunately, as often happens in online forums, a big misunderstanding has transpired over a discussion about what a “community” really is. David has cleared up the confusion quite well I believe and it really shouldn’t any longer be a big deal.
Ambition in and of itself is not to be seen as a negative. Anything, of course, taken to extremes is foolish, but it is ambition that pushes us through life. It gets us up off our asses so that we might accomplish something. Sharing with a community of like-minded folks, no matter how that is defined, certainly can often lead to good things. However, this place is different. This isn’t Flickr groups. There is something more here…and isn’t that to be cherished?
Learn, pass on, help, assist, lead, follow, explore, inspire…be! (Maybe I’m idealistic? Sue me.) ;^}
I am ever hopeful that the back and forth in this thread, while a tad uncomfortable for a time, has ultimately strengthened this DAH community! Nothing has been ruined, nothing should be totally dismissed. I don’t believe anyone actually thinks this is the be all and end all. It is a small and very worthy step forward for all involved. It should be embraced. David should be embraced!
Forgive me if I’ve dragged this on too long. I leave it be for now.
Happy New Year!
HELLO ALL…
my oh my!!! see, now we are just like a “real family”!!! with all of the kinds of discussions families have…particularly when sitting around chatting by the fire or whatever…
since i am now with my “real family” and have promised them i will not spend too much time on the computer, i will just respond quickly to some of the comments above….
first of all, nothing is ruined…i am in good spirit…and i sincerely hope you are in good spirit….sometimes when i must rush read and rush write, i can be a bit too abrupt…and such was the case with my last comments…please please do not think anything other than the fact that i am having great fun with this forum, totally enjoy and learn so much from your comments and am so so proud to collaborate with this community….
perhaps, because even some of you who i have never met, i feel like i “know” you and so a certain degree of familiarity has developed…this is only a good thing…it is good that we can be frank with each other and yet still show great respect….it is totally in this spirit that i come to visit you each day….
cheers and peace and love, david
Thank you so much David. I truly appreciate your taking time away from holiday festivities with the family to make this comment.
nicely put Micheal, and thanks David.
I have been roaming around, looking for some decent dialogue, but i am always returning here. it just keeps rolling along.
beautiful.
I have to say though, regardless of the outcome of submitting work to this forum, weather my work is given consideration or not, i have to say that the idea of the cummunity participating in this massive show of work,
man… that is genius!
its totally an awesome thing of inclusiveness, and community. I am really honored to be a part of this group,
Well done Sean and happy new year:)
“Let us go then you and I,
When the evening is spread out
against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table”
T.S Elliot