"postpartum" workshop depression has set in for jim and mike and me….the energy has been sucked from all of us….and maybe the students are feeling the same…..it is all over….terrific success by all accounts and yet and yet why such a letdown??
i am still in bangkok….facing the 17 hour non-stop right over the north pole flight back to new york is just not something i am in the mood for right now…i have justified my hanging out for a few days more by having michael encourage our tardiness back to our studio… we are telling ourselves that since we are both here together, we can get a lot of work done from bkk…yea sure…..well, anyway we will only be a couple of days behind schedule….and we have the enormous job of looking at all of your submitted work when we get back to nyc….well, i will think about that tomorrow!!!
now is the time to sit around the pool….except now i have no pool to hang around….i have moved into a less expensive hotel, but clean and nice enough hotel, now using my own funds….a few students are still around…katharina hesse, tom hyde, chris baer and james chance….we all hung out a bit last night…pretty low key…we were all too tired to talk about much or shoot much…i shot a few token snapshots while james chance, above, shot a pretty decent game of 8 ball…..last week, chance did a nice little story on bkk construction…..please see new bkk student posts under "student work/workshops"….
so, how about you guys…ever experience a total letdown after doing something that worked out well ??? and , more importantly, how do you bounce back??
I got the same feeling as you have after the workshop.. I am really not in the mood to do anything, so hanging around, drinking a lot of orange-juice.. yeah that helps. The only thing is: I don’t have any work left on my table, so it is much easier to relax and recover..
So how long will you stay in bkk?
cheers chris
Haha… i had exactly same feeling after my trip to US.. evertyhing was such not important after that :-)
I came back to reality after 2 weeks…i went out of home and i started my new project and i started to work to earn finaly some money :-)
Now i get moody again, but the best way to be ok will be again go out of home :-)
Cheers!
David, is this more than the normal “Whoo that was hard work and completely awesome and nothing ahead is immediately as cool” feeling?
Hi David,
for me there are usually two ways of dealing with such a situation.
Very often I do have a lot of emails to write afterwards concerning the project and sometimes this feels just right to get back down and reflect about what happened. Writing usually helps me a lot to put things in place, to wrap something up, and not to feel like wasting my time.
And if this does not seem to be the way I just start out doing something that is completely different. And I mean: COMPLETELY different.
So long,
Lassal
CHRIS…
i am here for two more days (nights)…we can hang tonight if you want….pls text or call..
NEIL….
this workshop was even more exhausting than usual because of the large size of the class…we gave just as much attention per student as we would have in a smaller class, therefore leading to marathon editing sessions…
but, i am always “let down” a bit when my workshops are over…i just always forget!!!
AGA…
how are you?? we have not chatted for awhile…i am still trying to figure out how to do at least a Magnum seminar in Poland in the spring….in any case, i always wish you well…..
LASSAL…
yes, i know what you mean….do you think me moving into Christmas shopping for the family is different enough to be “different”????
cheers, david
Just remember, your students are way charged up right now. Tired, but ready to go, they’ll take on the world. There’s been a transfer of energy and you just need to recharge. Good luck and be careful out there!
If your students are anything like me, the best advice and information is a depth charge. It sinks into the mind and then without warning “THATS WHAT HE MEANT!”. Is this normal? Do you see this?
Does what you learn when you teach work the same way? How much has your teaching brought on your vision?
How do you keep the energy levels up?
Will you work with a class this large again?
If you need to chill and relax, ignore the above! Keep blogging and we’ll keep learning.
Cheers
After returning to my heart-shaped island at the bottom of the world I keep feeling my mind being drawn back to fragments of conversations in BKK. It’s as if I want to make sure I don’t loose them.
Sure I’m a bit bumbed its over, but I’m also excited to see where that week will lead.
And besides, Its summer here and that aint so bad.
Hi!
When I’m burned out from photography, I try to go out and photograph completely different things. I shot a two-week youth conference (from 8 in the morning to 4 in the morning almost every day, with two other colleagues) and after that I just couldn’t shoot anything that had to do with humans… So I went hiking in the Alps. It helped, and in a week’s time I was missing photographing people again.
I hope my humble little advice helps :)
David,
John Fulton above is right. I personally left the Wyoming workshop more jazzed than ever.
It’s like we all attach our jumper cables to you for one full week and you’re understandably left feeling the effects… a little drained.
Whatever it is I’m sure you’ve got your “generator” somewhere and that’ll charge you back up.
By the way, I know lots of us here are starting to attempt to take you up on your “visit to Brooklyn” offer… And I understand perfectly if this isn’t the most opportune time, but I will be in your neck of the woods on the 8th. If you’re around I’d love to pop in for a brief hello! And again, no problem if you’re too wiped out or too busy. Just didn’t want to let it pass without asking.
You’ve got my email.
Hope you’re able to “recharge” soon!
every week with projection project…and am now, more than ever, spread thing like a twig’s bone….i share ur exhaustion, but for different reasons…
a walk, alone or with my wife and son, away from people and bubbling things usually does it…but, i miss, the late-night, wide-open, head-out-the-window driving that once was such a necessary part of my own life….
wind in the teeth of joy….
b
Am in that place right now… a rushed (yet fulfilling) assignment behind me under strange circumstances and a lot of live music shot without earplugs…
A few days off until I’m back in the deep end, trying to show my cities to a New York magazine…
Oddly enough, I bounce back by putting it all behind me for now by blogging it… and then head out for a run. 6 km should keep me sane.
Travel safe.
L.
Hi David,
Glad to see your workshop was such a success. I think after such a rush of creativity, you’re just tired. The mind get’s tired from firing on all cylinders. Whatever chemical that gives you that creative high is drained out and needs to be replenished.
Sometimes I think it’s better to wait some time before editing a project that was recently done. I think trying to creatively edit at that point that you’re on a low wil l have a negative impact on your editing/image selection process.
Thoughts anyone??
-Sherman
No letdown. Im trying to continue what you told me to do: shoot stories. I guess Im tired of taekwondo for now, and Ive been talking to some monks about access which has been granted:) I guess Ill be shooting pics of monks for a while now. I guess the letdown was after you left. I had a thrill shooting with you and then I was on my own again. I had a look at the workshop stuff, really good stuff, very striking and some very provocative work.
he david,
tonight i think i stay at home.. recovery is everything, remember :)
I dont have your number, so just write me an e-mail if you want to do something tomorrow evening.. mick is still with you i guess?!
cheers
I’ll read a good novel. That sorts me out pretty quick.
David.. i sent you mail few days ago.. i hope you got it
If you will need some help with workshop or seminar let me know, i will be happy to help :-)
Hello again, David!
I stepped on the plane from the beautifully warm smiling sexy BKK and off the plane to a cold SNOWY, get the fuck outta my way NYC.
Postpardom is an understatement.
I can’t imagine how exhausting that week was for you, James and Michael. Not sure if this helps, speaking for myself… your exhaustive efforts were appreciated beyond description!
Your brilliant photography is only matched by your brilliant and really fun way of teaching, I had some really good laughs in that class!! Kinda funny… I was hoping to see the world different through the viewfinder after the workshop… now I just see the world different. Time to create.
I’ll be keeping my eye out for another workshop of yours, lemme know if you can.
As you said to me with a handshake… “travel safe”
… ha! and I half thought Matt Newtons advice should have at least included a meat cleaver or a six pack…
Sure wish I had $4100 to learn how to make smart photos like the one above.
David
I used to help organize and run intensive ‘English Camps’ for female college students in Japan. We’d take them to a secluded mountain resort where there were only minimal reminders of modern Japanese reality and force them to use English through a very crowded schedule of classes, games, skits, workshops, sports, communal meals, evening entertainment. Usually about 100 to 120 students, with 5 to 6 foreigners running the thing- it was a nonstop performance, extremely demanding both physically and mentally, even though the setting was idyllic and the students fairly well-behaved and positive. After we sent them off in the late evening (they rarely slept during the 3 or 4 days, but at least we didn’t have to entertain them after 10:30 PM) then we’d have to sit up drinking and talking with the Japanese teacher staff until 2 or 3 in the morning. Then up and at it again at 8 the next day.
These camps were always lots of fun but really, really draining and I always felt like a very tired old man when they were over- couldn’t even think about more food, more booze, or chatting up more young women. Made worse by the well-known schoolteacher syndrome– every year the students are the same age, but the teacher is another year older! Fortunately the resorts we used always had great Japanese baths, often hot springs, with both big hot bubbling pools, smaller cold-water tanks, waterfall baths, massage chairs, mugwort steam, the works. So the first step to recovery was spending 3 to 4 hours just soaking, back and forth from the hot to the cold, sitting in the sauna or steam room, and hanging out in the massage chair, turning into a prune. One’s energy level goes down to near zero, but it’s completely, completely relaxing. Then I’d go home and sleep for 18 hours. After that, I was ready to face the world again.
In Bangkok, I’d say: do something similar- a very, very long hot bath followed by a long massage– and I don’t mean a ‘massage’ like Bangkok is all too famous for, I mean a real massage by a skilled practitioner with no sex on the side! And FORGET about photography, completely, for two or three days- it’ll probably still be there when you come back to it!
(Personally I wouldn’t find Christmas shopping in New York terribly therapeutic, but ‘a chaque son gout’).
Prawt pen sabaai dii!
Sidney
“i have justified my hanging out for a few days more by having michael encourage our tardiness back to our studio… we are telling ourselves that since we are both here together, we can get a lot of work done from bkk…yea sure…..well, anyway we will only be a couple of days behind schedule….and we have the enormous job of looking at all of your submitted work when we get back to nyc….well, i will think about that tomorrow!!!”
“Man is not a rational animal; he is a rationalizing animal”.–Robert Heinlein.
I always enter a full depression of a couple of days after one of those. Makes me think if I should do anything meaningful at all, as it sucks me so much. A couple of days after it’s ok again, but I don’t know if I can make it go any faster. I guess that actually having some images of the event, meeting, travel, helps to avoid that void, in the sense that not all has been lost in time.
Enjoy the submissions! Any numbers?
Heyyy David!! Im feeling exactly the same way right now… its ironic how and incredible and fulfilling project that comes to an end makes you feel strange… I think the best is to take a break (do whatever you feel like) and then start new projects…
hi David, you should sneak into the pool at the Dream Hotel..I bet they’d turn a blind eye seeing as you just graced them with all those lovely guests :)
honestly, I just experienced my biggest letdown after finishing up for your 20 project. I really didn’t see it coming, but wham..so I have sworn off photography for a few weeks, and it is doing me good. I think the body.mind.spirit need more time to process sometimes than what we allow. Considering the rate at which we now take in information, it seems likely that our bodies and brains weren’t totally wired for it.
In my letdown period, I have been processing and purging, everything from old love letters to worn out socks, and I have been lightening the load materially and spiritually. This too has been energizing and exhausting at once, but I feel that in order to fully process what ever it was that happened during my last 20, I needed to make room, “and thoroughly purge the floor, and gather the wheat into the garner; (and) burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
I think letdown is both alchemy and biology – the biology part having to do with the hypothalamus’ reaction to the quiet after the storm and the effect on the adrenal system. Whatever the cocktail that creates letdown, it’s real to me.
How to bounce back:
- no use of computer
- no use of camera
- switch off cell phone
- have sex, good food and sleep
- watch movies
Hey Paul
I am with you, a good book and some feel good food. cookies, cake, chocolate. oh yeh, boat loads of coffee, just to get the palpitations up, and wash it all down.
From what’s been suggested so far my first choice would be the hot springs in japan a la sidney.
After that throwing out torn socks along with erica comes in a close second :) I think most of the love letters were thrown out long ago thanks to a jealous boyfriend…why did I listen to him???
The best way I know of to resolve postpartum workshop or travel depression is to know that there’s another trip, workshop or whatever lined up in the not too distant future! Then I can relax and know that there are more good times ahead. So much for living in the moment!
Don’t suppose I can get anyone to go back to the Dream Hotel thread??? We started a great conversation there yesterday about “poor torism” “exotic portraits” guilt, exploitation, seperation and much more. If you think postpartum workshop depression is bad you should check this out! :) David said he will continue the discussion in a future thread but if you can’t wait go back to “Dream Hotel.”
David I hope you got my email.
Cathy,
That was getting good, but i think we have to take the EQ approach, ( emotional inteligence ), save it for later? not the cakes though, that requires BQ, ( bakers inteligence ).
Just as the “nectar”, cakes are a big part of the Scottish way of life, esp when you get home from dark skies, torrential rain, lashing wind, and ice cold bones.
wrobert,
I must come back to the present…which in this case means moving on from the Dream Hotel thread…
If I can’t let go of the previous thread conversation think how difficult it would be to let go of a whole week workshop…but I can’t go there cause we’ve already discussed “letting go” too.
agghhh! Maybe I’ll have to try some of that cake :)
Cathy,
I really think yesterday was fascinating. We were getting to some real hot button issues.
Great perception on your part for teasing out the threads!
Robert,
I thought it was fascinating too. There were a couple more comments after David, hope you saw them.
What does “teasing out the threads” mean?
In any case, we can be sure the next time those topics come up there will be some good contributions from the rest of the group that didn’t get a chance to participate.
CATHY,
I’ll look in on the Dream Hotel discussion. I thought you were making good comments.
DAVID, what you are describing seems be a common phenomenon, at least among creatives. I’ve run into it with lots of people – writers – photographers, even myself. If I have a big portfolio to put together or a grant to apply for, or, especially a big printing project, I get it done and get depressed.
When I finished my Inuit project, I was so lost, that’s when I moved to Paris and walked around making photographs for a month.
It seems that when you’re putting all your energy into something, it becomes your raison d’être, and when that something is done, so is your reason to live. Obviously, you have to get into the next thing, or back away and see the longer view. (Obvious? Hmmm…)
Good flight. See you sometime after the 15th.
Michael
Cathy
I was kind of visualising a jersey with some loose threads almost visible but out of reach, and your skill at finding and revealing them.
When I had initially read Alyssons comments, I had not seen the loose threads as clearly. You were quick on the pick up.
just a point though, I was wondering how the topic was being recieved in BK by the students.
looking at the work, gotta say the talent is really impresive.
w robert,
thanks for the explanation and thanks for your remark.
I was really on a roll yesterday…started taking ashwaganda a couple of days ago…the indian (auryvedic) version of ginseng. they say it gives you “the strength of a horse” and I was feeling it!
Total drain is good. Means what you went through filled you up to the max. What to do? I meditate,then I sleep, sleep as much as I want. This to shall pass.
Cheers,
Merritt
I also feel like that when an assigment or report is done. Normally it takes me a moment to edit photos and knock on editor’s doors.
I normally fuel up my energy with long walks at the beach, putting reading up to date, sleeping a lot, calling my friends and enjoying my familly’s company.
Hope you feel good soon. The students work is very very good.
HELLO ALL….
many thanks for all the fine advice….and i will follow up with most of it….already i do feel better with just a good night’s sleep and a hot shower….and mike and i are looking at your work while we spend our last day here in bkk….this is energizing in and of itself…
yesterday we both had foot and face massages, which i recommend highly…although it was reported that i was talking in my sleep during my face massage!!! mumbling something about getting the picture right!!
cheers, david
Hi all,
I can’t quite recall a project or activity that got me so spent and emptied as a result of its intensity, so instead of a reply, I do realize this would be a perfect question to ask Jim Nachtwey, as he leaves one of the hell centers he involves himself in. Wondering if age may make it a bit more difficult every time to recuperate, mentally as physically.
Surely he has to deal with realities that do not stop as he leaves a place. A while ago, David, you asked us if we had any questions for M. Parr as you met him in Perpignan.
Is it something you could have done (or still can do) in our behalf with Jim, on points that may not insult his wish for not putting himself first?
Thanks
PS: they keep saying rain here in Paris, but everyday is rather blue and sunny. Better than in July, with a constantly low sun doing wonders with the light!
Most recent letdown after doing something well was when I finally got some time to shoot and work on a portfolio to submit for an internship at a local paper… got all of it together and… BAM! I found out that I was 3 months pregnant and the internship begins the same month I’m due. :-( *sigh* After all that time shooting, preparing, networking, and dreaming, it didn’t work out so well (for photo that is).
It’s alright… a second baby will help to keep the first one in good company. :-)
Aloha,
Diana
By the way, that happened the previous year also.. with my first child. Except, I was 7 months pregnant and HUGE!!! They must have seen me as a liability.
Diana
I was a guest to the Friday bash, thanks to Lisa. Wonderful presentation and inspirational to me. I suggest a show in Aspen. Will help.
I know you are talking about a short, intense period of a few weeks here….but you MUST get such an intense “depression” after completing a project you’ve work on for several years. I’ve never really done that, it must be hard to let something go that has been with you for so long and not feel completely empty?
Diana, as a man I cannot pretend to know what that must have been like but my career was interrupted by my two sons whom I looked after. They are now 3 and 5 and I continue to look after the younger 2 days per week. It has been almost five years since I’ve been anything like fully immersed in my photography career and I’m only beginning to plot my return. In fact, I’m about 4 hours away from a fully complete portfolio that I think really kicks ass. Not having earned any decent money in all this time has set me back quite a ways in terms of camera and computer gear. But I’m getting there slowly. How are things going for you?
Paul,
I can totally relate to that. I’m 22 years old and married my high school sweetheart (met at age 14). We ended up going to the same university and got married and had our first son, Sam. We always talked about having children, but I had my dreams and so did he.
At this point in our lives we’re just thankful that we’re completing our undergraduate degree here at the University of Hawaii-Manoa. It’s been a long and hard journey, but when is life really easy?
As far as imaging goes it’s definitely hard to split my time when I have Sam with me. For example, today I give a lecture to a group of graduate students and my department chair (eek). It’s on the documentary project that I’ve been painstakingly planning for the past year and only now getting ready to “complete”.
All of it is a wonderful experience. I really wish that I had 4 arms! That’s awesome that you’re so close to finishing your portfolio! I’ve had chances where I “saw” something very captivating, but I didn’t have a camera so, it’s just ingrained in my head… haha.
What does your other half do? I’m assuming she’s probably the more “stable” partner when it comes to making “practical” decisions, right? ;-) *grins* That’s how people see our relationship sometimes…
I’d love to see some of your work when it’s completed if you don’t mind! :-) If not, I understand… I’m glad someone else is in a similar situation or understands what I am anticipating! Keep in touch!
Best,
Diana
Diana,
Wow! You folks started young. Claire and I were married just before I attended ICP. She stayed in London while I came to New York. Tough first year of marriage. She was 31 and I was 30 at the time though we met in our mid twenties.
She’s a research psychiatrist at the Dept. of Veterans Affairs.
Our plan is for me to return to full time shooting and for her to go part time. So, I need to really make an impact in the coming months. And I will!
I’ll tell you this, your little Sam can teach you so much about photography. The best work I’ve ever done was while looking after my two wee lads. Never leave home without a camera. I have mine at all times. I just wish it was a little smaller. It’s a D200 and I’ve clunked the lads on their heads with it too many times. Mind you, they’re almost immune at thus point.
I have promised myself an M8 soon. I made my best street work with an Hexar and long for a capable digital rangefinder. I just suits my brain better and it would cause less injury to my children.
Click my name to see some of my work.
Best,
Paul Treacy
HELLO ALL….
if you have a specific question for jim, ask it fast!!! however, i cannot guarantee an answer…maybe i will have him write just a quick general comment….we both leave bkk tomorrow morning….
once i am back in new york thursday afternoon, i will be able to answer all of you by private email or right here….
DIANA…
good attitude…and think SALLY MANN!!!
cheers, david
AKAKY…
yes, yes you are right….i confess to extreme rationalizing!!!!
SIDNEY….
yes, the “straight” massages here are amazing….so good for body and spirit and only wish such a thing existed in my “real life”…
cheers, david
OK, a simple question for Jim, and being asked while never having checked how old he is? Does he foresee physical exhaustion due to getting older, maybe starting to see effects of it already, to limit himself at some point, when going to the kind of places he goes to? Can he imagine pacing himself, change his approach, if so, still bringing complete relevance to the subject? Of course, I do not mean being 75 YO and over, but the type of middle-age where your body can “catch up” with you as never before.
Thanks, David, and happy trip back to the both of you, and everyone who travelled so far for the WS (though Thailand can feel just like home to a few of us).