Comments on: Manfredi Pantanella – Leaving Rubbish https://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2012/04/manfredi-pantanella-leaving-rubbish/ burn is an online feature for emerging photographers worldwide. burn is curated by magnum photographer david alan harvey. Sat, 18 Jun 2016 11:09:56 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.2.4 By: Basura y comunidad: el caso de los zabbaleen de Mokattam en Egipto – Andén Digital https://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2012/04/manfredi-pantanella-leaving-rubbish/#comment-1144153 Sun, 27 Mar 2016 04:20:24 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=11830#comment-1144153 […] [2] http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2012/04/manfredi-pantanella-leaving-rubbish/ […]

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By: Top Photography Films - Manfredi Pantanella https://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2012/04/manfredi-pantanella-leaving-rubbish/#comment-115749 Sat, 17 Nov 2012 19:56:48 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=11830#comment-115749 […] reading: Leaving Rubbish – Manfredi Pantanella featured on Burn Magazine. Download PDFShare this: Written by […]

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By: Akaky https://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2012/04/manfredi-pantanella-leaving-rubbish/#comment-108288 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 18:41:33 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=11830#comment-108288 “Some have claimed that” and “many sources agree that…” Who are the some claiming what about the new modernization initiatives and what are the many sources agreeing about the Zabbaleen? Unless you’re the New York Times offering an unacknowledged mini-editorial in the midst of your straight news coverage, you should avoid the use of the passive voice whenever possible. The Times should avoid using the passive voice as well, but I know they’re not going to, not when it’s so useful for them.

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By: tom hyde https://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2012/04/manfredi-pantanella-leaving-rubbish/#comment-108271 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 02:47:21 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=11830#comment-108271 I really enjoyed this essay. I didn’t see it as traditional journalism, or Burn as a newspaper-style journalism venue. I thought it solid and interesting storytelling on a subject I knew nothing about, and even better, it showed a fresh perspective of communities often in the news from the bottom-up and the edges instead of the more traditional mile-high viewpoint. Thanks for sharing this with BURN.

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By: Imants https://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2012/04/manfredi-pantanella-leaving-rubbish/#comment-108270 Sat, 21 Apr 2012 21:58:50 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=11830#comment-108270 This is where it all falls apart “Some have claimed that all the new modernisation initiatives” and “Many sources agree that the Zabbaleen … ” that is no different to writing Senator Josh Smith was caught with his pants down and showing a picture the stating it happened at a hotel that could be used by call girls but failed to mention that the photographer sneaked into a toilet cubicle during a lecture given by the senator. It is poor journalism

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By: Andy Gray https://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2012/04/manfredi-pantanella-leaving-rubbish/#comment-108267 Sat, 21 Apr 2012 13:39:59 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=11830#comment-108267 They’re lives are squalid, they’re lives are not squalid… Obviously, it’s not one or the other. There are plenty of OTHER examples of photography that paints the lives of the poor as 95 percent depressing or beautiful, but this is not one of those essays IMO.

Every photographer has a bias, a viewpoint, a story to tell that comes from within. In this case, I think it’s that people have dignity whatever their situation. I think the people in these photographs are portrayed with dignity. I’m okay with that. I think portraying people at the margins with dignity, as part of real stories that matter, does far more FOR them that photography that portrays them as defeated, nearly sub-human.

Back to those of us who are perhaps wealthy, over-educated elites, I tend think our group struggles much more with having squalid, sub-human lives. Here in Cambodia, I recently talked with a friend who is “at the margins.” He couldn’t understand at all why anyone would commit suicide. He’s poor, but he’s not living a squalid life, at least not in simplistic comparison to ours.

Dignity, a real story of what it means to be human … Am I feeling better after that? I hope so. People who feel better about the the world, about themselves, and about others in need, are much more likely to make changes and take action (and learn through inevitable mistakes) than cynics who have given up already and people perpetually weighed down by the world, anesthetizing themselves and each other with drugs and art, or art and drugs, whatever.

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By: Imants https://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2012/04/manfredi-pantanella-leaving-rubbish/#comment-108266 Sat, 21 Apr 2012 10:22:13 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=11830#comment-108266 No bait Frostfrog that is just you talking to yourself

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By: Imants https://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2012/04/manfredi-pantanella-leaving-rubbish/#comment-108265 Sat, 21 Apr 2012 10:17:34 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=11830#comment-108265 ow, Imants – I give you the last shot. Make it your best. Is that some sort of threat or have you just lost your marbles lol

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By: Imants https://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2012/04/manfredi-pantanella-leaving-rubbish/#comment-108264 Sat, 21 Apr 2012 10:14:36 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=11830#comment-108264 it is not what really happens

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By: john gladdy https://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2012/04/manfredi-pantanella-leaving-rubbish/#comment-108263 Sat, 21 Apr 2012 10:14:35 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=11830#comment-108263 I think this is one of those sets of pictures that work mainly because they support an interesting story. A story most of us are probably not familiar with. I dont think all the pictures are great, but then they dont really have to be. They serve to punctuate and inform, rather than attempting to be become Icons. That said there are some good images in here, but if you de-contextualised them, many of them falter.

Note.
Frankly the debate about positive imagery rather than negative is strange in this context (ie. the relatively affluent westerners) Much more about the needs of the viewer than the subjects.
What I mean is that viewing a story about the positive, striving and surviving aspects of poverty, versus the sinking, degrading, hopeless side of poverty….is still just a view into the ghetto of someone elses life.
We as viewers are just as removed and alienated from either.
And saying to ourselves
“look how well they are doing, coping with living in squalor and recycling things..I would much rasther see this than people starving and dying”
and thinking that that somehow makes us ‘better’ people because it allows us to turn away from the fact that their life IS squalid, is a shame on us.

We should be able at least to view the whole picture, and try to understand that, no matter how much it sours our afternoon latte.

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By: Imants https://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2012/04/manfredi-pantanella-leaving-rubbish/#comment-108262 Sat, 21 Apr 2012 10:08:06 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=11830#comment-108262 Personal gain is not connected to money try to broaden your thinking and not be so one dimensional it is using others for gain whether it be information, an idea,images on a personal blog, a point of view, a political or environmental statement etc. . I am not sure that people would be happy about having their photo plastered all over the net, because they are being forced into drug running, prostitution, picking up garbage, being portrayed as killers, etc nor would you like to be seen next to a dead seal looking as if you enjoy doing the activity but that is what photographs do. Things get placed out of context. Photographers come in take a few shots write a script and pretend that it is the gospel truth, with statements like many sources etc it is

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By: Frostfrog https://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2012/04/manfredi-pantanella-leaving-rubbish/#comment-108261 Sat, 21 Apr 2012 09:27:01 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=11830#comment-108261 “tooks” = “tools”

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By: Frostfrog https://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2012/04/manfredi-pantanella-leaving-rubbish/#comment-108260 Sat, 21 Apr 2012 09:23:44 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=11830#comment-108260 Imants, my personal gain on my blog probably amounts to maybe a nickel for every hour I have put into it, if that much, and if that much, it only rose to that level thanks to the generosity of another photographer who regularly posts here… this issue of personal gain is one that I did not bring up here, I did not challenge you on it, I don’t care what you do to gain income from your photos and I don’t judge you for it – it is irrelevant to me, unless by chance I can model it and get a little gain myself, which I doubt, because we are trying to do different things with similar tooks… you just drug up this whole issue of personal gain out of your own mind and projected it onto me.

Trust me, if I could find a way to make my blog pay and reap personal gain for me, I would surely do it, because I love to blog, but so far, I haven’t a clue. It’s not about being a good guy or a bad guy… that’s another invention you just made… it’s about loving something, having passion for something, so you do it if there’s money to be had and you do it if there’s no money to be had… you do it if you’re good, you do it if you’re bad… you do it if you have talent, you do it if you don’t.

It’s PASSION, my most irritating, stubborn, and bullheaded friend Imants… PASSION!!!

And maybe a touch of insanity as well.

Manfredi has PASSION, TALENT, VISION and he is a damn good story-teller. His magnificent essay here fits into no status quo I know of.

Again, I apologize… to Manfredi and the others here… I should have ignored your first comment, Imants… all I accomplished was to ignite an asinine, pointless, discussion that is a distraction from the real discussion. I feel bad that I took your bait and so ignited it. I should not have. I should know better. I will do my best to just let you be in the future, whatever you say, and not respond, because you and I are like fire and gasoline and it’s best we just stay away from each other.

Now, Imants – I give you the last shot. Make it your best.

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By: Imants https://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2012/04/manfredi-pantanella-leaving-rubbish/#comment-108259 Sat, 21 Apr 2012 08:07:15 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=11830#comment-108259 I will ignore your denigrating of me and once again Frostfrog all I do is question what is presented you are happy to accept the status quo.
No a response to how you use people in your images for your personal gain on your blog and that is the issue here how the photographers use others and especially their misfortunes. Having a camera in your hand does not make anyone an instant good guy and that goes for you as well………

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By: m.avina https://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2012/04/manfredi-pantanella-leaving-rubbish/#comment-108253 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 18:52:59 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=11830#comment-108253 A fine essay, glad to see this corner of the world depicted in this manner–an antidote to some of the decorative and somewhat conceptual work that seems to glut the photography world.

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By: nancyspadaro https://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2012/04/manfredi-pantanella-leaving-rubbish/#comment-108248 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 08:16:18 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=11830#comment-108248 I really like this series! Tells a very interesting story and a captivating manner !
Congrats Manfredi!

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By: John P. https://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2012/04/manfredi-pantanella-leaving-rubbish/#comment-108247 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 08:11:32 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=11830#comment-108247 Congratulations for being here Manfredi.
This is a very well shot, edited well-researched and balanced essay. I echo Laura’s point on showing a different aspect of the life of a social group that so easily could have descended to cliches.
It might be a tiny bit too linear and traditional in its approach for my taste but this is not a criticism, just a matter of personal preferences. Well done!

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By: Frostfrog https://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2012/04/manfredi-pantanella-leaving-rubbish/#comment-108246 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 05:41:58 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=11830#comment-108246 Imants – I may not remember the precise words I wrote under your essay, but I do believe I remember the message and it was complimentary, and praiseful. Never have I attacked or denigrated your work. I believe you to be a very creative and talented person – even brilliant. I am certain your students learn much from you and I believe they are lucky to have you as a teacher.

Even so, of all those who post regularly on this forum, your voice strikes me as being the most consistently sour. I seldom see a good reason for your sourness. It also seems to me that you are the most quick to denigrate others – and it almost always strikes me as gratuitous. You also seem quicker to take offense than does anyone else, and slower to let go of that offense.

In this case, I did not state or imply anything good or bad about how you or anyone else here makes a living through the use of their photo subjects.

As to your original comment on this thread, I could see but one point to it: to tell the rest of us that you are on a higher plane of consciousness than we are. So I decided to attempt to point that out to you in a comment that in tone mirrored your own.

I should not have done it. I apologize. Go in peace.

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By: Charles Peterson https://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2012/04/manfredi-pantanella-leaving-rubbish/#comment-108245 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 03:15:13 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=11830#comment-108245 BURN Magazine, i.e. the world according to Imants….

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By: Imants https://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2012/04/manfredi-pantanella-leaving-rubbish/#comment-108244 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 02:31:48 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=11830#comment-108244 So go judge yourself frostfog you also forget what you wrote under my essay……… I gain and I never denied it……….. appropriation a great vehicle of communication

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