Walmart by Martin Parr
Walmart is the biggest retailer in the world and as such should be documented seriously.
We would like to find out more about this large and impressive retailer. What sort of customer do they have, which is the biggest Walmart in the USA, what community initiatives do they undertake?
All these questions and more I intend to explore.
If we think about recent documentation of American society , you rarely see images from Walmart, yet they are a recent American success story and are now an integral part of American life. It is impossible now to think about contemporary America without considering this company. This should be celebrated and documented.
EDITORS NOTE:
i think Martin Parr needs no introduction….he is undoubtedly one of the most respected and popular (and imitated) photographers of our time….and a true renaissance man excelling in making a mark in the publishing world, the commercial world, the art world, and the curatorial world….
my invitation to you now is to ask Martin Parr some well thought out questions…..he will join us “live” in the next few hours, most likely 6pm GMT…..he will spend two hours answering the most thought provoking questions…..
…COMMENTING MAY BE CONTINUED….MARTIN PARR WILL JUMP IN ON THE DISCUSSION FROM TIME TO TIME
oh yes, by the way, Martin plans on shooting an extended version of his Walmart work exclusively for BURN….
-david alan harvey
Website: www.martinparr.com
…and coz i like u Ross…
i will say that recently i lived 6 months in downtown,
“little salvador”… i tried to connect…forced myself
to love Salvador but.. i failed..
shot a lot of photos… failed…photos look
like an american tourist that spent couple weeks in India..
laughing…
Now i have a big , huge ambition…
to photograph greece in a “my own way”…
To do that i will need to move there for a year at least…
NOT AS A TOURIST… move there… get a job… live in another
roach apartment…fell in love… get robbed.. get laughed at…
like Davin in Bucharest… laughing… maybe not..
but hey .. that would be real… imho..
connect, connect, connect….
big hug
Panos “to photograph greece in a “my own way”…”
Yes; that woulkd be more than real… How long have you been away from Greece?
15 years away
…with only one two month break five christmas ago…
( it will be hard to “compete” with Nikos Economopoulos though..in his home turf..:))))
big respect to invisible Nikos though…
he kept it real all those years…
unlike all those famous Rich Kids like Paolo Pellegrin or Philip Blenkinshop…:(
or should i call them crocodile dundee instead of rich…???
( now my time to get spanked Ross:)
Good luck with it. No need for anyone to feel the need to “compete” I think… 15 years, you’re going to notice some big changes and are in a prime position to document them your own way..
David and all,
It looks like the conversation from time out has moved over here so I’m going to repost this from earlier…
David, Very interesting to see that you are now on the flip side of this conversation…defending your choice of shooting in Cuba :)) The entire conversation (which I think is a great one) started with your “warning” me about the pitfalls of shooting in India and now because of Martin’s answer to my question you have been “called out” for shooting in Cuba. Gotta LOVE that! :)))
As far as it being the “easy” or “lazy” choice to travel to exotic locations to take photographs…
At least for myself I don’t run halfway around the world looking for things to shoot.
I was already going to India way before I became serious about photography.
All I do is live my life with a camera. I’m going to go to India whether or not I am a photographer.
SInce I’m already there, I may as well shoot! :))
Here’s an image from 2003 (?) long before I was familiar with DAH, documentary photography, cliche vs not cliche, etc. One thing that interested me then and still does is the incorporation of modern technology into a traditional lifestyle. It will be great to discover if WHAT and HOW I see has shifted over the past several years. I’ve got so many new things I want to shoot, an entirely different point of view.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30716737@N08/3291307639/
.. Ross agreed…
Actually i cant wait to meet Nikos The Great Master…
we had some brief email exchange…
lots to learn from nikos and nothing to compete about…
I think the difference with some of Martin’s work is that it makes us wince and feel a bit uncomfortable about some aspects of modern culture
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Smile too. a lot (at least for me)!
I think HCB, or Doisneau, Brassai so many others of course from earlier times, are precious because showing perennial numanity, yes, but still of a time gone by. There is definitely a part of souvenir in there.
Even though they might be, and will have a date on them, I am not so sure Cubans (or anyone) will look at david’s shots as souvenirs in 50 years. Neither a saturated burger or english beach scene from Martin’s, while still dated in time, be really about souvenir, and “world gone by”. More like something was happening to and in the world.
I mean when you look at HCB or Doisneau, you get a sense that people belong, that there is not really a dichotomy between their behaviour, and the world around them. It all fits in.
When I see some of Martin’s shot, It’s exactly the contrary. People are not behaving as belonging to a world they know and respond well to, but they become a prop to that world, and like objects, seem to lack the ability to reflect on what they are really doing, what is happening of them, while being quite functional (vs comfortable), as objects can be. At least, this is how I read what Martin gets at, which he often maintains even when ther is no one in the frame (like parking spaces, whom, from repetition he shots almost as distinct entities).
Totally agree with talent surviving stance. Enormous talent, that is.
Cathy..:)
nothing offensive…
i know u love india.. u speak about india all the time…
or as much as i talked about venice…
if you are in love with india ( just like Vink with Cambodia , or Herves love about Thailand..),
then, yes.. india is your back yard..indeed
Herve
October 9, 2009 at 5:49 pm
I think the difference with some of Martin’s work is that it makes us wince and feel a bit uncomfortable about some aspects of modern culture
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Smile too. a lot (at least for me)!
same here Herve.. same here…”uncomfortable”….
I have permission from PANOS to shoot in India!
Just me and no one else, right? :))
A huge accomplishment :)) Seriously :)) Thank you!!!
In fact I’d like a press pass that says I have permission from you to be there.
Maybe it will help me to get into places that are not “old” or “crumbling”
I want a Panos press pass :))
Cathy..
u got it all confused again…
DAH.. did not go to Cuba as a tourist…
DAH as a historian HAD to record Cuba…
its his 15 years dedicated to…
ahhh nevermind..
( and no.. u dont have my permission to go india again..
no press pass for me… FREE INDIA from the american Imperialism…
laughing.. yes yes…plz stay away.. or go to New Orleans…:)
Cathy
At least for myself I don’t run halfway around the world looking for things to shoot.
——————-
In fairness to David, who is no sectarian, what he means by “own backyard” is that quality of being able to look into the mirror. Which means it’s everywhere at all times (obviously). Be it Cambodia or one’s backyard.
he usually only brings it up when people say “I can’t shoot today, because I am here, but when I go there tomorrow…”
Panos, Herve…David,
No confusion here. I never said David went to Cuba as a tourist. I just noticed David responding to Martin’s comment about his book on Cuba and smiled :)) about it.
(what Martin said to me)…
dear Cathy
This is a fascinating question. Why are there so many books on Cuba, for example ( Sorry David!) Because it is so nostalgic, all those crumbling buildings and old American cars, photographers get seduced. Why are they seduced because there is an element of laziness, and it is so much easier to identify with a crumbling old world rather than confronting the new. This is one thing that has driven me to think of Walmart as a good subject, but shooting in Havana is a lot easier!
So in one sense I want the photos I take now to be about now, not about times that have disappeared. Having said that, I too sometimes am lazy and shoot old world, but at least am aware of this when I do it.
Martin
…he usually only brings it up when people say “I can’t shoot today, because I am here, but when I go there tomorrow…”
Amen Herve
I agree with Panos, Cathy. There is a big difference between going some place for one month when one can, and going back because one must (not an existential must, that is).
Herve,
I understand and agree about David’s use of “backyard.”
When I wrote the comment you pasted above I was not responding to David, just joining in on the conversation that has been going on (over at time out also) about “lazy” photographers who take the “easy” route by shooting in exotic places.
“I can’t shoot today, because I am here, but when I go there tomorrow…”
I think that’s just human nature really. I’m trying to make a point to try and get away for an hour or so each day to shoot for my project, no matter how busy I am with articles etc. It’s funny, but my two best photos shot so far were taken when I only had an hour or so to spare.
At the end of our summer I decided to go down to the beach and river/waterhole (only a 10 minute drive) to shoot for an hour each afternoon. I’m a wonderful procrastinator and it made a real difference to set that one hour in stone. And, by the end of each week I’d spent around an 8hr working day shooting for the project; and taken one of my best pics.
The other was taken at the local skate park when I only had about two hours to shoot. I always find it’s easy to say “It’s not worth shooting; I’ve only got an hour spare”
Herve,
I understood your first comment “backyard” but I’m not sure about your last comment.
What you mean by “must?”
ah well, it’s all okay ’cause i’ve always been a tourist to my own life … hmmmm …
Martin, I am here in Northwest Arkansas, home of the birth of Wal-Mart. The city of Bentonville is built on Wal-Mart. As is lots of Rogers and other surrounding areas. We have a bumper crop of Wal-Martites here that would be great material for your project. Have you seen the series of photos floating around the internet called Wal-Mart People? It is gruesome.
Lee Guthrie
eelprod@yahoo.com
I went to cuba and took pictures…enjoyed myself, couldnt give a toss what people think of the pictures.
I went to india and took pictures.enjoyed myself, couldnt give a toss what people think of the pictures.
…given the choice of either of them again or hanging out at wal-mart and there is no contest.
John :)))
Lee..:))))))))))))
i experienced that “..We have a bumper crop of Wal-Martites here..”
in the wine snobby california country ( temecula ) for two years..
i know exactly what u mean…
ok… its a circle…
i will go back to John Gladdy’s yesterday comment..
A good photo is a good photo…
Although when it comes to essays….!!???
Hmmmm…
Question to all ( speaking of “good” photos… whatever that means…):
Did U or did NOT like Martin’s above WalMart photo???????????
and why?
SInce I’m already there, I may as well shoot! :))
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Here’s something you will never hear David, or Martin, or Henri (CB), or Panos ever say…. :-)))
Panos… I am all things but not confused:-)
There are fiction writers, there are those who write biographies only, then there are political writers, there are writers who write reportage, there are short story fiction writers, there a novelists, there a script writers, there are historians, there are many other kind of writers and there are poets. I am not aware of reportage writers trying to convince script writers, or novelist, or poets, to write the same way as they (reportage writers) do. Can certain photographers let other photographers do what they want to do without accusing them of being old world, being old fashioned, being behind their time… Not everyone wants to change the world or even to record those changes, you know. Not everyone is fascinated (or even interested) with progress and future. Some people like to look back. Let them do it, see if they do it well and judge them for the quality of there work, not because they are not interested in the same things you are.
This rant BTW, has nothing to do with Mr. Parr. I admire his work. Cheers all.
“must”, Cathy, meant: It’s his project, his profession, his work….
Veba..:)
wholeheartedly agreed…
( i honestly though wasnt talking too much of the “future”…
i was mostly “defending” the present…and once more i will quote
John Gladdy… : “a good photo is a good photo, no matter what…”
:)
John
enjoyed myself, couldnt give a toss what people think of the pictures.
——————————-
That’s the healthy way to go about it, and there is absolutely nothing wrong in being a tourist. especially when it (tourists) allows Martin to shoot some of his greatest images! ;-)
… whats up with me today? mentioning John..over and over ???? :)))…
i think i quoted him 3 times already…
if im apostle Peter… then you are my Jesus ( at least for today , John..! )
big hug
Herve,
Now we’re getting into a whole other subject (and unfortunately I’ve got to run)…
Whether someone who is not “making a living” at photography can have as much passion and take it as seriously as someone who does.
I would say definitely YES.
Herve,
“SInce I’m already there, I may as well shoot! :))”
To make sure there is no misunderstanding, I didn’t mean that as a casual remark, an afterthought, as if I don’t care.
I was just illustrating that I would go to India with or without a camera (if for some reason I was not allowed to shoot there.)
I have been preparing night and day for India for months even though I’m not going till January. Doing research, thinking about what I want to shoot. Preparing, preparing, preparing. I’m far from casual about it.
Panos . to answer your question about the above picture. NO.
I can certainly see it is made with intent and I respect the authors technical ability, but its a picture a stamp collector would make..and im not a stamp collector.
Herve. I dont remember saying i was a tourist.
OK… Cathy..;)
im convinced…. call tomorrow after 9am and i will grant u your visa for india…
and a press pass…
we love u…( at least i do…:)
John…:)
i have such a hard time disagreeing with u today…
;0
i meant, i agree, of course:)
Kristof
What you wrote about is interesting but can you clarify it a bit.
Here’s a bit that you ended off with. “Those images [ie such as Parr's] confirm the way we think and behave now, the same way which brought us where we are. On the other side, images of dissapearing traditions only make us more sad. The only way out is to imagination and poetry.”
However, is it even possible to do that with documentary photography – to show the way forward, a world that does not yet exist. Surely to do that you have to at least work in the manner of photographers like Henson and Crewdson, those who are constructing their images in or out of a studio or even in photoshop but not trying to capture what’s already there. Surely such efforts would look like the futuristic films we saw in the 70s which are rather quaint and comic to look back on today. For all that they still comment on what fears and concerns people had at the time.
I’m not sure its documentary photography’s role to do other than show us what is, and comment on it if we can through the images. What photographer has ever done other than that?
Herve. I dont remember saying i was a tourist.
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One way or another, as you told us, what matters is that you enjoyed it!
… ok, i have to laugh, grin, smile, whatever ….
Doing research, thinking about what I want to shoot. Preparing, preparing, preparing. I’m far from casual about it.
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God speed, Cathy and remember India is good to people who go with the flow too (and maybe foremost)! No craving, no clinging… ;-)
Herve,
“No craving, no clinging”
Luckily I will start out with two weeks at an ashram so I will have the opportunity to remember any truths I may have forgotten :))
The preparation here is mainly for inspiration and to point me in a direction.
In the moment I hope to forget it all and go with my gut and heart.
Just to pick up again on this Cuba discussion. I have no objection to anyone shooting where or what they like. There has been some terrific work taken in Cuba that show the old world there, Polidori did pretty well and our very own David has some crackers too. My point is that we must be aware of the overcrowded market for Cubam images, and if you do it, it has to exceptional to add anything new to the dialogue, if you want to go beyond just pleasing yourself.
Us photographers are all rather predictable in our subject matter, and I think it only right in forums like this, that we discuss our rather narrow view point and put this onto the agenda for serious discussion.
Martin
Martin most places cop that cliche overkill aspect now that the digital caper has come to being …..millions of images………….. that’s why I am not a photographer and now make up stuff that isn’t important to anyone not even me.
I always have to remind myself, Marin Parr is a photographer and Mike Parr is that lunatic that dresses as a bride and chopped his arm off once long long time ago well pretend arm that is.
One day I will lie on those beaches and wait for a Parr clone to take a happy snap of me.
Martin…
I think that the way we approach and treat our chosen subject is in the end way more important than the subject in of itself, be that “new,” “old,” or whatever…
For example, the same photographer shooting the same subject on assignment for a week or shooting it as a personal project going back to it again and again for several years, will produce *very* different results, no?
I believe that the most important factor which produces the most pronounced difference between a body of work which is “just” good and one which is great, is the personal and deep interest and connection we photographers sometimes have with our subjects.
Martin,
“My point is that we must be aware of the overcrowded market for Cubam images, and if you do it, it has to exceptional to add anything new to the dialogue, if you want to go beyond just pleasing yourself.”
I think that’s more the point that interests me. I notice with India, well from what I have seen of Indian photography, the locals aren’t doing that much that is interesting so it remains anyone’s game still. But sure its worth trying to avoid cliches, I just don’t think India itself is a cliche.
And if you can’t do anything exceptional, well frankly i don’t think that means one should give up either. Afterall, we don’t take pictures out of an altruistic impulse.
Thodoris…
I think is even more than that, as dedication and time spending onto a subject it’s not enough to produce a better work.
I believe that it’s more a question of how do we put the context photographed into a wider perspective, not only with, as Mr Martin says, the zeitgeist of our time, but also with an ever changing panorama within photographic communication.
Velibor
The writers vs. photographers comparsion is really good, made me look at it different here… That said, I very much dislike bird photography and can not (even under pressure) understand the point or the quality of what bird photographers do. So I guess I need to work on myself on that point.
Mimi…
I agree…
What I wrote above was not meant as the complete (and only) answer in what makes a body of work, well, *work*… it was just my thoughts on the discussion about choosing a subject matter, and if and how that decision dictates the final outcome…
First off all I’d like to say that I believe Martin parr is a good photographer. He doesn’t leave me indifferent. But instead of liking his pictures, I dislike them. But at leat they make me think and wonder more about my position.
It seems to me that this sort of pictures come out of the samemental nod, which provides us our consumer society. They are made by the same mental premises. And in that way they add, just as Wallmart products, package travels and four by four cars, more to my mental
indigestion. Hundred images of different hairstyles…
Sarcasm, cynicism or irony (which I greatly enjoy in the sense of ancient Greek philosophy) have the inherent danger (if not used carefully) of becomming a defense wall against the problems we face. We have a laugh and come back to usual business. “Oh, look at us, we consumers, how stupid we are.” This position is called conformism. It is so common now in todays art world. Because it is so damn simple to criticise our consumer society. It is a caricature in itself. Just take a part of it, copy it and expose it as art. It sells good! People who buy it have the impression
they are critical…
Andrea C,
thanks for your question. But I already talked about that in my previous comment. Times where someone invents as a God a whole new society (Le Corbusier, Marx, the utopists) are over. We have allthe results are desastrous. The main reason for that, I think, is the blind belief in rationality and technique. I hope we are over that point.
I meet many people in different areas (sociology, social workers, green toilet inventors,name it),who are thinking and working towards another way of living. As they all are conscious that our current way of life, if expanded globally can lead to total collapse and as they don’t believe anymore in the big ideologies of the past, they try to do it on their scale, hoping other people do that as well. They prone cooperation,
thinking togehter, exchanging ideas just like Burn by the way). They don’t just conform with reality (oh liberal-
capitalism is the best of all those bad systems). What makes man to be man is they possibility to imagine
and create (an animal can’t too much). But pleas not as in the past, like Gods with a vast plan, but creating,cooperating, evaluating, renewing,…
Documentary in this… I don’t believe documentary photography is only about reality.James Nachtwey does not only document.He is like a priest who fights to change the world with his pictures. And just bvecause he believes in it he is so damn good. Robert Frank’s Americans is not only a document, but his utterly personal vision.
Alvarez Bravo, Alex Webb, Depardon…it is as subjective as objective. That is poetry: contradictions dissolve in a new creation, which gives new contradictions and so on… Poetry sensibilises.
It ain’t about showing a world which does not exist. This is as you say impossible with
documentary photography. But it is about going under the layers of the society you live
in, dig in yourself, and create your uttermost own way of seeing into a unity. So, I think
documentary photography at its highest is very personal. And this unique view enriches the
world.
Victor Ben,
I agree with you totally that there is a huge lack of in-depth criticism. There is all around this easy going obvious criticism which brings us nothing else but a sad smile.
As we won’t find a way out of our current crisis by glorifying the traditionnel past, we won’t neither with chewing gum criticism.
This whole discussion between old-crumbling world and zeitgeist is senseless to me. Photography is not objective and never will be. If someone photographs in this old-crumbling world (which is changing very fast by the way and these changes sometimes say more about our zeitgeist…) and tells something compelling about humans, so the better…
Yai with all this new photographic technology it’s easy for us to take shitty photos along with every other punter in town. Sorta make us nothing really special as far as image creators are, so we are better off not taking this all too seriously http://www.etrouko.com.au/iman.htm