All I can say about the latest exchanges on this thread, is that if one says something that might unfortunately have one of us (leaving out flaming trolls) leave the table, it was wrong to say it. There is simply no reward to doing that.

If BURN is truly 0,1% writers and 99,9% readers, some responsibilities belong to the writers to escape derivative contributions, rants and journal-entry types posts. At least, that they appear as after-thoughts, not the main course.

YOU GO!

I just spent a most wonderful evening with Mr. Black and Mr. Berube at a most intriguing local establishment with music and beverage diversions (see live comment dictated by Bob, transcribed by Mike, via my phone under the latest “dialogue thread, where we *all* nshould head whenever we just want to chat)

and I am now in my hotel happy that I was able to circumnavigate myslef back without undue lostness. And I read this much of the above, and quite honestly, while I know passions are engaged and some hearts are honest, i think simply “what rubbish”.

I will not name names. But if you do not like a particular person’s posting, and you *know* you don’t, DON”T READ IT! I’ll provide a helpful hint – their name will be at the top of the post.

I will admit (bob, you know I love you man, you got 4 extra hugs before I could even walk to my car) sometimes I don’t read bob’s posts. They’re too long and dense, and I save them for later. Sometimes i don’t come back to them.

But people, GET REAL. To insult our host because he allows everyone to say what they want, to say that some people’s words are not acceptable…well……all I can say is ….IF YOU DON”T LIKE IT, Why. Are. You. Here. ????

Burn is Burn, It will be. or it won’t. I hope it will, and I will do what I can to help and make it prosper. But c’mon, all…whining about peopls posts?? If ou don’t like it, ignore it. don’t dignify that whaich you disapprove with response.

Some people rant. some people must wave their arms and hands while they talk, and if you hold them still, they suddenly become mute. some people take a great while to gather their thoughts, and provide them in a nice, linear, progressive, organized way. Some people start out organized, have a glass of wine, and then get stuck fguring out which way to push a button. Some of us simply want to swing from the chandalier and sip wine and drink in the humanity in the room below us. To each, I say, their own….except those who simply want to gripe that someone is not conforming to *their* standards, and must be disciplined. if all you can do here is gripe and complain, then you are NOT contributing….

do good. be good.

now….back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Daria, you still out there? What do *you* think? After all, this is *your* thread……

with wishes of great light to all, and subtle promises of some sort of postings of images from tonight, if they aren’t all completely wonky…I am…

andrew b

P

be well

Dimitri – here is a hand for you.
http://haiko.net/burn/hand.jpg – my real hand holding my real baby.

email is m-e-s-r-o-p-i-a-n at g-m-a-i-l wiht no dashes.

cheers

Throughout all of this bun fight the person I feel the most sorry for is poor Daria. Her moment in the sun has been tarnished by back biting, nastiness and hidden agendas.

Hopefully she realises that not everybody in the photo world is the same. She is young and I feel she has a real talent, I just hope she won’t be put off by the rants.

I feel many more people would comment, but don’t want to get jumped on if they don’t see the same way as some of the others. Some are just more sensitive than others.

Actually; I really miss Jim’s comments. I always felt they were a good counterpoint to many of the others comments here. Did I agree with all he said? Hell, no! But I’ve met plenty of other editors who were as “to the point” as him. When you are busy and get used to talking “straight up” then you tend to do it in real life too. And as you know, it seems much harsher in print.

I log onto Burn about three times a day, but now skip most of the comments. I check out the images and read your posts and those of the people I respect. I don’t often post because my IP address is blocked as spam anyway, so only post from the library (today) or from the folks place.

I suppose the concept of treating people as you would like to be treated would solve all the world’s problems. Maybe I’m too much of a dinosaur or too “old school” to understand why people take joy out of upsetting and hurting others.

Many of us work hard, and are out photographing/working as much as possible, but just get on with life and don’t need to tell everyone about it.

David; if you answer this and don’t get a reply it’s just that I’m back home and my comments will be getting spammed again!

Most of all; congratulations Daria on your fine image.

Cheers

Haik is really Haik…he was a student of mine in Los Angeles just as you were in New York…he is a flat out great guy, mostly proud of his family….all he wants to show you for his portfolio are pictures of his kids…that is who Haik is….

cheers, david

my apology…”futile” was a bad word choice…you are right 7% of whatever number you want to put out there means some do make it ….so pleased you are one of them….i just meant to say that the 7% was so much lower than what i fantasized or imagined given the apparent 100% enthusiasm for recovery going in..thanks for putting this in perspective…

i shot this essay in b&w for the Richmond (Va,) Times Dispatch and i doubt i have a copy of the story in the newspaper..but, i should and will scan these prints which i still have and make a link for you…Rubicon was the name of the rehab house…a live-in facility ….

cheers, david

Just to show you how it feels, Bob, because you yourself said that you were reacted not an opinion; but how it was said, ie. the “language”. here we write no NY times editorial, a bit free for all instead.

so a lot of stuff might come up a bit quippy; a bit abrupt, yet, we should not pay too much attention to it.

These quips, I do think it is useless, to the site or to the photographer entired, to write them, either to laud it or to dismiss it. Yes, it’s part of the way many particiapte in forums on the internet, so be it. I rather am more interested in allayed opinions.

It seemed addressed to me, but I never mentionned anything about Daria’s physical appearance, BTW….

abck soonest or rather: je reviens bientôt. :-)

I fully second your opinion: I feel this place quite the opposite of “childish”. I feel that most people here are acting as adults (i.e. taking responsibility for what one writes/shoots/shows) and I don’t think burn is under a “vicious” dictatorship. Just my 2 eurocent.

yes i believe in freedom of speech…yes i believe in civility towards my colleagues and all humans….not mutually exclusive concepts among civilized mature adults..when have i “preached” otherwise? (liking someone’s work, does not mean i like their behavior)..freedom AND civility is certainly my mantra, and that is how i live…as you, i wish others would do the same…we are going around in circles a bit here, because i absolutely do not disagree with what you say…i am just trying trying to figure out how to make that happen…i think all societies large and small grapple with this very issue….unfortunately history proves that in the larger societies someone decides what is “right” and then and then, well we know what happens….”purity” becomes “dogma” becomes “totalitarianism”…..

you paint a bit more of a dismal picture here than what i feel exists and you have ignored my statements about what BURN actually is doing (maybe we posted simultaneous)..BURN is being defined by submissions which are growing by leaps….you cannot seem to get away from this one person who must have attacked you at some point, hence the mask…this just cannot be an impersonal overview treatise on your part…and, had i been attacked at some point, i would feel as do you..so, i am not dismissing your concerns, but merely trying to put them in realistic context…

yes, of course, it is quite obvious that substance abuse has played a part in all of this…admitted many times by said party right here in the comments…..i once spent several months in a rehab house with “recovering” drug addicts and alcoholics doing a photo essay…at first, i was impressed with the program..everybody was going to “do better”, make a new life….honest about their addiction and willing to now “take a step forward”…after a couple of weeks i became disheartened, when i realized that few can recover…the young woman i had photographed so much and who was a shining example of recovery died from a heroin overdose about two weeks after i published her picture as a shining example of this program……even recently, when i was shooting a similar piece, the doctors and officials in charge told me frankly that “recovery” from addiction is somewhere around 7% of those who give it a try…pretty close to futile….so, to answer you…yes, i know…..do i know what to do about it? no…nor do the professionals evidently…

if you want to send me an e-mail privately please do so ……david@burnmagazine.org…..i will maintain strict confidence…we share the same concerns….

cheers, david

Thanks very much for hearing me out, and for the invitation to stick around… but I do feel like I’ve overstayed my welcome. Maybe I send you a photo or two one of these days, I have some exciting (for me) things bubbling away… which is where my attention belongs…

How did Lord of the Flies end again??? I should know this…

tat-ta… buzzing off for real…

i just could not take another social situation, although i would love to have seen Antonin…i was “off the grid” yesterday , still recovering from sunday…..

yes, poor Daria did “take it” for no reason…however, there was some very good discussion too before everything went sideways….

BODO…

yes, we have that with Dialogue…for us to transfer comments is impractical ….an “off the photograph” comment is supposed to go into Dialogue as it now stands…may do now use it that way…

cheers, david