Los Emo Kids by David Gimenez
At first sight, Valencia, located in the Spanish Mediterranean Coast, could give an impression of being a conservative city. But in Fallas, one of the most world popular Spanish festivities, everything changes, especially at night. The mixture of fireworks, typical costumes, food, chaos, friendship, religion, alcohol and drugs give a peculiar atmosphere to the city.
Walking along the crowded “Barrio del Carmen”, the beautiful old center of the city, you can find many interesting people.
One of those nights, I found a group of Emo kids. Fancy dressed teenagers, perfectly eye lined, and tight jeans.
You don’t need to ask them to take pictures of them, actually they will ask you. They love themselves, and for that reason they want to check which shoots are good or not for approval.
This is one of my selected pictures for the final slideshow of the Photo Workshop Fallas 2009, directed by David Alan Harvey, Anton Kusters and Luis Montolio. It’s the first one of a series called “moods” composed by several portraits looking the different moods at Fallas nights.
Website: www.davidgimenez.es
Mike, why would you care what I think? I’m just pixels on a screen. And easily ignored. :)
Jim, because I want you to fly, to see beyond your horizon.
Patricia Lay-Dorsey,
are you o.k.?
Mike.
Jim, if this was a photograph of you and your wife a teenagers, would it provoke nostalgia? Reminds me of Bruce Davidson’s “Brooklyn Gangs”
http://www.magnumphotos.com/Archive/C.aspx?VP=Mod_ViewBox.ViewBoxZoom_VPage&VBID=2K1HZOY9MWNPC&IT=ImageZoom01&PN=59&STM=T&DTTM=Image&SP=Album&IID=2K7O3RJDLKF&SAKL=T&SGBT=T&DT=Image
Best wishes,
Mike.
Mike, I’ve spent a lifetime asking questions. And along the way I came to conclusions about what I truly like and what I don’t like. I don’t have to figure it out now. I did when I was younger, but I don’t need to revisit all of that again. Photography is something specific to me. And at age 58 I’m not going to blow all of that up and start questioning again, only to arrive at the same conclusions.
If you want someone to fly, you need to look elsewhere.
Mike, I’m afraid I’m not a nostalgic person. I’ve been so busy living in the present I haven’t spent much energy on the past.
Jim, you’ve said some things that stick with me in a good way, one of them that i can’t find for the life of me to quote perfectly was,
‘photographers are running the risk of only talking to or only being meaningful to each other’.
It was then that i really began to appreciate your crusade. I do think there’s a real audience anchor that you bind us to and i wouldn’t want you any other way Jim, somebody needs to play this role or we will perish at those words you delivered.
Sometimes it seems like an ‘either/or’ with visual appeal, i really wish it was an ‘and’ when it comes to audiences. It sure seems to be the case with the pure orange juice analogy, but there are some quantum gaps in the visual media, weird huh?
i don’t have an answer as to why, sometimes I think it’s just a case of becoming visually literate, but safe to say that the more sophisticated your photographic literacy/appetite/work gets the smaller the audience, but certainly not a small clueless audience.
It’s just really rare to find something as complex and popular in the visual world as the Beatles were in the world of music I guess.
Joe, I guess my fear continues to be that only we (photographers) will ultimately be able to love the children of our incest.
¨Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. I sense much fear in you. ¨
yoda.
jim – sometimes you have given up on life itself.. having reached conclusions ? sounds a little bigoted ya know.
my conclusion to burning myself is not to stick my hand in fire, however what we are talking about here is photos.. photography as an artform which can provoke, illustrate and move.. it justr seems to me that most of what is on burn is just not your cup o chai, and thats okay.. really though.. you have a habit of presenting a rather overblown stance as above..
within music.. most people listen to pop.. it is bland.. it appeals to the masses.. it is music made by business for business.. yet how much of lesser known music is more successful in itself?
how many streams of music have a cult following.. and how do you think these streams chan ge the overall perception of music as well as the creation of music over time?
how small was the blues – and how big was what it led into?
i think if you think of photography and music side by side and look at the development of both over time, to say we are producing just for ourselves and only to talk with ourselves is daft as santa-claus..
:ø)
d
Well, david, I’ve never liked grainy, fuzzy, dark photos. I’m never going to like them. I also don’t like liver or buttermilk, although over the years I’ve sampled them on occasion just to be sure.
I’m not sure what you would have me to do? Live life without evaluating it? Waste my time continually revisiting what I have learned by experience I do not like?
The photo posted here is not the first one I’ve seen like it. I’ve seen hundreds. Every time I looked at one I didn’t like it. I don’t have to evaluate that anymore. Geeze.
¨I guess my fear continues to be that only we (photographers) will ultimately be able to love the children of our incest.¨
_______________
apply that sentence to the music industry.. and some of the small scenes which have broken new movements unknowingly.. yes the music market is much bigger, although elevator music is not what people think represents change within it, is it?
so why is it that the mainstream of photography is all important rather than smaller scenes within photography?
is mainstream photography not just reactive as is the elevator music?
have new bands been inspired by that glockenspiel version of ´up, up and away´ they caught between the 7th and 8th floor?
it´s the way you seem to extrapolate your personal dislike into some kind of fear for the industry / photographers income.. or more.. or.. ´geeze´..
it just does not hold water for me – a photo does not appeal to you and then a crisis is soon to be presented.. by you.
your concerns over the industry and incomes of photographers are from such a specific place.. that´s good for promoting discussion.. it needs to be balanced.
d
Ok, we gotta stop picking on poor Jim. (big grin here)
Jim says “why would you care what I think?” If he didn’t care what we think, and didn’t find this discussion fascinating, he would not be here, commenting. Maybe his motive is to provoke us, and make us “think about what I think” as Jim once put it. Wether it is his motive or not that is the case.
C’mon Jim, I’m older than you, I’m not ready to set my opinions and my vision in stone. Hell, I think my best is yet to come. (although I’ve been reviewing the stuff I did in my twenties and gained a new appreciation for my vision then). But I can’t believe your perception and vision hasn’t been affected by what has been presented and written here. I’d love to hear what you have gained from being here. And please, I don’t want to hear how it has re-inforced and hardened your attitudes, you wouldn’t be here if that were the case.
Finally Jim, thanks for being straight shooting, to the point, not afraid to say what you think. I think you are one of the reasons this forum is so amazing. (sorry for the back-slapping)
Gordon L
:ø)
i utterly agree that jim is of great benefit.. of course you are jim as similarly to gorden i like the way you present your views.. straight down the line.. like an editor without a doubt.
it would be great to see why you like coming to burn jim – what you are getting out of the increasing time you spend here.. or are newspapers really that quick to lay-out :ø)
d
Gordon, I’m actually at the point of removing the link to this magazine from my shortcut bar. Photography is moving in a direction that concerns me for its future, and David posts too many images here that remind me of that. It serves no useful purpose for me to add to all this noise. Take photography to whatever logical end you wish. I just don’t want to go along. The interaction here has helped me define that in my own thinking.
Have fun!
ahh, jim..
:ø/
photography is young.. the future is bright.. burn needs more editors to post.
Getting back to David Gs’ photo, and Jans’ comments, I’ve been thinking about how we view photographs, and “visual literacy” in general.
A photogaph is a magical thing. It’s kinda like a clay impression, it is an image that has a direct relationship to the subject, as opposed to a drawing. Howeve, like a drawing, a photograph fools the eye into seeing something that is not really there; an interesting phenomenon on its’ own. However, unlike the drawing, photographs have real connection with reality of the moment depicted, a shadow frozen in time and all that.
We view photographs almost as reality. A story involving Picasso describes a person showing him a photo and saying “this is my wife” . Picasso replies, “what a pity she is so small and flat”.
Is it inate that we all learn to view a photograph the same way, or do we learn how to respond to it? Is how we respond to a photograph filtered by our experiences and expectations and pre-conceptions? Absolutely. I think as photographers, the filter is much more powerful than the “proletariat”, maybe to our detriment sometimes. Maybe Jim has a point.
Getting back to “fuzzy, grainy out of focus” photographs.
What kind of photograph most accurately mimic how we see? Is it the sharp from corner to corner infinite depth of field kinds of photographs? Well, no, we don’t see like that. We actually see more like a lens-baby, sharp in the center, fuzzy on the edges. And while were at it, we see in three dimensions, in real time. Not only that, most of us see in full colour, except as the light level drops, then you see colour as less intense, and you see less sharply. When I wander around my house at night with the lights off (older guys get up to pee a lot), I just see big shapes, no shadow detail, no colour.
The point is (yah what the hell is your point Lafleur?), the point is, that David Gs’ fuzzy photo, and those like it, just may be a more accurate reprsentation of how people see.
Great discussion
Gordon l.
I can appreciate what this photographer was trying to achieve. I suppose not liking dark, grainy images is a matter of personal taste. Certainly though it is not something which determines in and of itself the quality of an image. Case in point, many images from my favorite photographer.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/museums/photogallery/bresson/gal_3-4.htm
Having known several “emo kids,” I can say this image speaks to them as a social group — absolutely. It seems that was what the photog was trying to achieve with this. One must sometimes look deeper into a photograph to see its true value, something I have slowly started to learn, often on this web site. I believe this is what Mr. Harvey is trying to teach us as well. It is not always obvious, but it is rewarding when you can look at “the same” subject matter with new eyes.
“photographers are running the risk of only talking to or only being meaningful to each other”
I have simple similar answer but about fine arts witch reference to photography too. Even if photography is much younger or because (!) photography is younger.
When peope ask me (all the time); “why Art is so difficult, why artist, curators and galleries making exhibitions only for them selfs????”
“Why art is not for regular people??? (nice)”
And my answer is (always):
“why phisics is so difficult? Why scientist and institutes making knowlage only for themsels?”
“Why phisics can’t be for regular people??”
“why we can’t stay with Newton???? (nice)”
This is our reality and we have to agree with, if we want go further.
Why? how? when?
Asking the questions is most important thing, but this questions CAN”T be rethorical for purpose.
And my impression is the “why” is rethorical. No need the answer, no looking for answer.
Photographers talk and do for themself???
Excellent!!!!
Emo kids..that’s what they’re called? hahahaha, i thought they were Goth kids..well! No matter! I have shot these kids extensively in Costa Rica. I have shot a million and one people on the street, both from the hip and spontaneous street portraits with permission from the subjects. So i come to this subject with experience. These kids are THE nicest, kindest, most tolerant of ALL my subjects. Hands down, period. Some here say they see smirk and attitude, some see tenderness. Well if my experience counts for anything, i will say it is closer to tenderness and affection. They are unbelievably affectionate and close with each other. Very young girls with older boys will lean their heads on the boys’ shoulders and the affection between them is almost fraternal, i can see the guy easily going to the mat to protect this girl in case of problems on the street. I have observed them very closely. They huddle in tight little groups, speaking respectfully to each other, not bothering anyone. They float from one knot of kids to another and always the same thing, respect for one another. I went to one of their concerts and the same thing. They have my complete respect. I have also overheard others talking about these kids, making harsh fun of them. I cringe inside with the pain of their words.
Many or all of these kids have been marginalized by society. Look closely at them in r/t..often they have very unusual features or body build, there’s something about them that has made them struggle for mainstream acceptance and when they don’t find it they find each other and their own style. Not only do they accept each other but they are tolerant to others, like, right, photographers! I don’t think it’s because they have huge egos, they’re just open and receptive. I was amazed that they welcomed me into their group which changed every time i went to shoot them and yet they always were the same with me. No matter where i found them, they let me in. And inevitably they would invite me to whatever was going on that night. I never went but their invitations were heart-felt. I mean, i’m a foreigner in this country and so am also marginalized. This kind of sincere welcome and acceptance does not usually happen on the street to me except with these kids. I am crazy about them and i love their styles, i love the fabulous graphic qualities of their unusual features, eye makeup, hair and unique body types. I look at them through the lens, see right to their souls through their big eyes, and i can only gasp, it catches in my throat and in my heart..it’s absolutely an emotional experience for me to shoot them.
Well, i could comment more but that’s really about it..this is a wonderful photograph. i will not explain it, describe it, emote about it. it’s a photograph i absolutely get, no mystery, no doubt, i KNOW what moved this photographer. I KNOW what he saw.
Well done, big time well done.
best~
kathie
Tough photo. I want to like it, I just don’t. It sucks me in with all that space on the left, dude on the rights face is priceless, but it doesn’t make a photo. I’d like to see this softer. Like emo kids really are, unsure of themselves… they look too confident here. That’s the surface.
It feels a bit contrived. Edgy for edgy’s sake.
As far as Jim goes, I’d be sorry to see him go, he keeps the place active somewhat, I kind of like him. Like my uncle that I argue with over Thanksgiving dinner every year, but… if he’s gonna say the same thing every time, well, I won’t miss him too much. I’ll Imagine what he says and structure my thoughts accordingly. :)
Going to ht a couple bars in San Fran tonight… Burning.
Kathleen, please email me, I miss my Costa Rica (lived there for a couple of years). I lived in Escazu and Cariari… wish I was photographing at the time like I am now.
Glad you’re BACK on burn.
jarediorio@gmail.com
Jared
oh my..i can’t see that girl being any “softer” than she is, she’s like a warm chocolate chip cookie smack out of the oven..she’s melting..her body language, the tender curve of her mouth, her trust and confidence in both the boy and the photographer. She’s all heart this girl. The boy is a boy..i mean, he may be unsure but he’s not going to look like a wimp..he’s not being cocky..it’s more like bravery..there’s a distinction. He’s taken great care dressing for the night, he’s the girl’s protector and the way the light caught his eye and the curve of his upper lip gives him a sneering quality but it’s coolness he’s projecting. I mean, that’s it. He’s cool and he knows it but the trust the girl shows as she leans into him tells the viewer what kind of person he really is. To see him any softer would belie his youthful masculinity. Perhaps if the photographer were to shoot him alone he would show more of himself but i get the feeling this was a quick photo-op…maybe i’m wrong (?)
Contrived..no..no..this is all night-time ooze and grit..that’s when these kids come out. Consider the atmosphere.
best to you, Jared..
kathie
Jared, wow, Escazu and Cariari…i live clse to Escazu..am there every day! will write you!!!
kat~
Jan and Preston and Gracie (wow, what a varied trio!)…
Jan, just read your long post and am speechless..i need a second and probably third read to comment but wanted to say thank you for a thoroughly fascinating look at the Proletariat, of which i am certainly one, just maybe a few rungs higher up on the visual evolution ladder. But to see what you are writing, perhaps the climb up the visual evolution ladder leads to a case of diminishing returns. Heaven help the day that i begin to view photos purely from the brain. That’s the day i would sell my cameras. So, Gracie? Unless i missed Jan’s point entirely, maybe emoting is not such an embarrassment. And i thought i was the only one :)))…though i also want to read Preston Merchant’s link about criticisim because the critic’s craft fascinates me as almost an art in itself. However, Jan, it’s your post i am going to mull over tomorrow..interesting..thank you!
best to all
Kathie
ALL
This guy Jim..he’s like a hub..all our comments revolve around his opinions. We love to hate him, hate to love him but in the end we do love him because he gives us something to react to and write about. But what about the photograph or essay that’s getting kicked to the curb in the meantime? If Jim left, and i wouldn’t care one way or the other if he did..what then? Would we have to actually peer into these photos and get beyond our initial intellectual response to technique or text (text? never have i heard so much written about text as here at Burn), we’d have to um actually feel the thing? And then throw out those feelings and discuss them with each other? Well, yeah, that would be the start of something good.
Puhlleeeeeeeeze, he is ONE guy who shoots farmers in overalls sitting in lawn chairs looking like overstuffed scarecrows. No offense Jim, this is what you like to shoot. If i had to imagine his world from his photos, (which i don’t because i know personally where he lives and i’m not denigrating it so Jim don’t go there), one would imagine that life there is one long country bbq, church supper, high school car wash fundraiser or Memorial Day parade (which it most decidedly is not). Nobody looks weird or out of sorts or ready to commit a hatchet murder. There’s no racism, no losers, no falling down drunk wife abusers. If we see in a blurry fashion much of the time, well, in Jim’s world, we all see 20/20 and view life right down the middle of the road. He shoots the proletariat for the proletariat. I think he has dumbed down his photography over the years to make it digestible to the majority of the people. And that’s OK for JIM! Ain’t no way at his age that he wants to wake up one day and realize he made a wrong turn somewhere. Stop trying to open his mind. This has been a Burn hobby since the day i came here. Let’s talk Jim into being somebody more like, well, like us. Well, that’s damned insulting to Jim! I mean, who are WE? Highly evolved and enlightened creatures trying to nudge forward an exceptionally bright peasant who isn’t living up to his potential? But beyond insulting Jim, we are missing so many opportunities to make, for example, Herve the hub of our wheel for the day, or Rafal, or Patrica or Haik or Marcin..day after day, photo after photo, essay after essay, it’s JIM JIM JIM…declare your independence, throw out something provocative, daring, dug right out of the gut and tossed out for debate. Let’s cut ourselves loose from this Jim addiction.
And i don’t even know what Jim gets out of all this. That would be an interesting psychological case study all by itself. phew..well, ok,here, go for my throat..this is my opinion…
best to all and goodnight
kathie~
ALL..
i want to start a thread where we really discuss the psychology of how people READ pictures or READ INTO pictures…it is quite literally a function of either right or left brain side emphasis…some people see a photograph as an OBJECT in and of itself as they would look at a piece of sculpture…others see the ELEMENTS or the “key words” of a photograph and then try to analyze either meaning or intent….where some would FEEL an emotional attachment, others would only SEE technique or try to imagine what the photographer should or could have been thinking…
some see photography as a primarily visceral experience …others see pictures in the same way they would look at a road map….
a right side brain person trying to explain a photograph to a left side brain person or vice versa is always going to be a problem…and that is what i see here all the time in the comments..anyway, i will try soonest to write a new post specifically discussing this issue which is somehow leaving now blood all over the floor…and it should not…..
i must now go into a room full of young Spanish photographers who have been shooting their hearts out for a couple of days…in this room there is the same division of the subjective “right and the left”..in this room it is easier to get to the points quickly and without anger….what is with the anger i see here so so much??? or is it that many of our words on the page SEEM ANGRY when they would not be interpreted as such were we in the same room??
anger is internal….the problem of the person who is angry…anger should never play a role in discussing photographs…photographic discussion, no matter how passionate should be respectfull….i mean , we are showing pictures here…we are not shooting guns nor dropping bombs…a picture published here is never intended as a personal affront to someone who may like another type or style of photography….nor does every picture here represent what i might like hanging on my wall either…
the photographs here represent only a very small slice of what young photographers are doing today…over time, or even edited down today, i think we would have a selection representative of all styles of our medium…so enjoy some, dislike some…
mostly, for heavens sake go out and make a photograph TODAY… submit it to me…IF you are a photographer, your best “position” for discussion always is what you can put down on the table in the form of your work..this should be your real statement to all of us here…
now, please enjoy your day…it is springtime….a time of love, energy and possibility…see if you can depict any of that with a photograph…poems accepted also…
peace, david
A little bee, sat on a wall, buzz, buzz, …. and that was all.
I’ve posted this link before but in view of DAHs left / right brain comment I’ll post it again.
http://dirckhalstead.org/issue0711/e-bits.html
With compliments to Beverly Spicer for the original article on the Digital Journalist.
Perceiving the figure spinning clockwise indicates perceptual dominance by the right side of the brain, and counterclockwise indicates left-sided dominance.
The right side of the brain is used for imagination, perception of symbols and images, philosophical thinking, spatial perception and emotion. The left side of the brain is detail-oriented, uses logic, words, language and facts, comprehends order, perceives patterns and is reality-based.
So, folks; which way does she spin for you?
And Jim, if she’s not moving at all for you: keep it to yourself.
Laughing Jim, laughing.
Mike. (Definitely right brain).
@Mike R.
Man! That was a great trip! Thanks.
mike r
brilliant..
when i first looked at the spinning girl it was going clockwise – right sided..
she began spinning counter clockwise in my peripheral vision as i was reading.. going to work on controlling it if i can :ø)
the natural hallucination was good.. lasted far too short a time for me.. ahh.. i miss those days on occassion.
cheers
david
.. and DAH.. no anger here..
i think written the interweb is a terrible place to have discussion at times.. loosing so much from the world of body language and micro-expressions.. especially for a group of people with visual orientation and a preference for seeing over reading.
:ø)
Dave: Ditto.
predominant left[anti] random flips to right[clock]. Sounds about right[or is that left]. Goes with the left handedness i guess.
Agreed. very difficult to maintain discussion over an extended thread on the web. Passion is often read as anger.
Disagreement slander…etc etc. Give me a room full of people most any day. But.. We do get to connect to the WHOLE world simultaneously, and that really is something when you think about it.
John.
DAVID B…
i cannot get online with you until early in the week…i am totally crazy busy in Madrid….
JOHN…
are you in L.A.??? heading west in April/May….maybe meet??
cheers, david
DAVID. Confined to europe for a while. Flat being decorated, darkroom fitted, etc.. Cutting a documentary[dont ask, really boring..pays the bills though] together. TRYING TO SHOOT ESSAY. And boy do I suck at that :) And just generally burning up film.
john
i think your right on this david. i think this has been going on for a long time but it has been taken personally… with no analysis. i think this is a good thing for burn and i think it will help burn grow further into a place were we can get good and bad reviews on work and at the very same be constructive at the same time. a new direction. will i see you at contact this year?
RE: EMOS & GOTHS (for Kat?)
the kids in this photo really don’t look emo OR goth. they look like regular good-looking kids.
the “trademark” of an emo is their hair which is very long in the front and sweeps over to the side hiding half of their face. they dress stylishly and, if they’re emo-ravers, they dress extraordinarily colorfully. they are generally, as kat stated, very welcoming and open.
goths are generally very pale and cloak themselves in black with lots of zippers, studs and chains on their clothing. they can be open as well but generally exude a darker persona.
the two groups are very distinguishable from each other. just wanted to help clarify
(and if you image google either term, you’ll see what i mean).
best all!
katia
girls and guys:
my apologies to the kids… i dont know who they are…
and my comments (SMIRK) were based on pure ignorance
and how i viewed this picture of them at face value…
like hmmm…
if i wore a tutu, does that mean i am a ballerina
if i sport M8 does that mean im photographer
if i wore no shirt, does that mean i cant afford it
if i wore bling bling, does that mean i am rich…
if i look bodacious, does that mean i am?
John G: aren’t lefties and righties dominated by the same hemisphere. If I remember correctly in righties the corpus callosum crosses at the base of the skull. In lefties it doesn’t.
David, I look forward to that, and perhaps from a practical standpoint (for the audience, certainly not the staff) more content posted more frequently would relieve just a bit of the tension and the intellectual acrobats getting all wrapped around each other in midair. Just a thought. Things can get a bit … carnivorous … around here at times.
Katia, being an Emo sounds like fun. I’m thinking about becoming one but I have a problem: I’m as bald as an egg: free range, but still, an egg. So the hair sweeping over half the face is a problem. Do you know if a syrup (syrup of fig – wig) is acceptable attire for an aging emo? Any help gratefully accepted.
Best wishes,
Emo Mike.
YOUNG TOM…
“more content, posted more frequently”….. well, we post new content every day amigo…are you suggesting twice a day???…can’t make it dude…not unless you jump in and help us out…you just gave me a headache….
cheers, david
Yes. us sinisters are ‘cut off’ so to speak. But we got the dreams man so we did all right :)
mike–
you could always get a wig.
http://www.wigfx.co.nz/images/emosm.jpg
;))
Katia, that syrup is for me!
Thanks for the link, in return, please check out this Mangnum link.
http://expression.magnumphotos.com/expression_award/index.php?p=the_theme
The theme is Community and I immediately thought of you.
Best wishes,
Mike.
“And at age 58 I’m not going to blow all of that up and start questioning again”
Jim, I am your age and I personally plan on exploring new thoughts/ideas and technology as they arrive during the coming years. Are you really locking into a thought process that was developed by you years ago? No room left in you brain for new ways of seeing the world?
your
One for Jim…
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robert_m_johnson/1486448440/sizes/o/
David,
I am never and ever angry here. (I was for Panos one time long time ago)
Mostly I am happy. :)
Sometimes I am sad. (just sometimes)
Sometimes I am tired.(rare)
We should put more smiles into comments.
:)
Today my wife bought me three velvias (Treasure!).
IF I am a photographer I should made a few frames tomorrow.
peace and joy :)