Comments on: baptiste giroudon – working with democracy

By: David Ryder

David Ryder — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 01:52:44 +0000

Nice work. I think the series would benefit from a little more editing to make it a bit of a tighter edit, but they’re all good pictures.

By: nancyspadaro

nancyspadaro — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 23:05:45 +0000

The first two images are the strongest for me and then number 14, I find the essay gets lost in the rest of the photos. The light and colours in those images is great, and they are also the most intense!
congrats for making it on burn!

By: john gladdy

john gladdy — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 20:22:34 +0000

Brian. its not a flag, its a tablecloth with a pattern on it.

By: Brian Frank

Brian Frank — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:50:48 +0000

There is a difference between destroying the flag as a symbolic gesture, and destroying it because you’re done done eating off it.

By: john gladdy

john gladdy — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:43:13 +0000

yeah, but it is just a flag..right???

[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBCkm9-LvRg&w=420&h=315

By: Brian Frank

Brian Frank — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:02:52 +0000

Relevant to the photos: Man, I love that first shot. Just perfect. THANK YOU!

Not relevant to the photos: It always bugs me to see the American flag stamped on stupid disposable shit. After the T-shirt gets worn out, after the paper plates get used, and in this case, after the tablecloth gets used, what happens to them? They get tossed. It just seems very disrespectful of the flag.

By: Jerome C.

Jerome C. — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 01:25:41 +0000

Gordon,
this is exactly that! laughing! The perfect captions for an essay about democracy in Afghanistan/Guantanamo/Dubai/Egypt/France…

By: Gordon Lafleur

Gordon Lafleur — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 00:48:03 +0000

This group of photographs has been very much on my mind.

With the springboard thought of “democracy”, and just the state of the world, the state of my world, our shared humanity, each photograph brings to mind a flood of thoughts.

Like Jerome, I very much appreciate and respond to the direct gaze and expressions of the subjects. I feel very connected. In my mind, captions, and little cloud balloons of the subjects thoughts appear. Write your own caption, or cloud balloon for each image.

#1. I’m here for the money. I’m scared shitless myself and my family will be murdered because of it.
#2 This is just bullshit.
#3 I’m terrified
#5 I’m proud to serve my country and protect the American way of life.
#12 What the fuck am I doing here

I could go on and on.

Each photo starts a whole story in my head, and a dialogue with myself. This is powerful stuff. This is what photographs can do, and be.

By: pomara

pomara — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:00:44 +0000

It’s a work in progress. It has a lot going for it.

By: Akaky

Akaky — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:58:14 +0000

Panos, for a lot of people in the South, the battle flag and the Confederate national flags do not have a bad reputation; they are symbols of Southern heritage. African Americans are going to look at those flags quite differently, but that, I think, is to be expected; the view from the slave cabins was always different than it was from the gallery of the plantation house.

By: Herve

Herve — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 21:47:03 +0000

only in Turkey ive seen a way more exaggerated/developed FLAG fetish than here in the US
———————-
Come to Thailand, Panos. At the same time, thais do not brandish their flags or commercialize it as tableclothes or the likes, but it is maybe the most ubiquitous feature in the country (with 100 watts unshaded light bulbs, not always ar night only!).

In agreement with Imants, I think the essay visual stance (portraits shot “objectively” within a highly subjective context/background) are also quite ubiquitous, which may not be a problem, but these pictures strangely lack impact as a whole, and do not renew a style of narrative we are now accustonmed to.

The text is definitely within the Burn norm…. Oh well!

By: panos skoulidas

panos skoulidas — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:19:59 +0000

http://m.statesman.com/statesman/pm_21986/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=Q2BJCRLY

By: panos skoulidas

panos skoulidas — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 17:42:25 +0000

Jerome yes indeed..Europe is different when it comes to flags posing..especially after the WWII..in greece for example its almost a sign of ethnocentrism and backwards thinking..( kinda like the bad reputation as racist flag of the southern confederate flag here in the US )

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/confederate1.html

By: Jerome C.

Jerome C. — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 16:14:34 +0000

Panos, Inmants,
thanks for the feedback about flags. I know everyday a bit more about US culture with Burn!
Few years ago as I was in Germany, it had been quite a event when German suddenly dared show their flag…
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/18/world/europe/18germany.html
Actually, thinking of it, I brought my french flag with me to China, but it’s still in the box… I had no reason to get it out, France didn’t win any worldcup…

By: panos skoulidas

panos skoulidas — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:14:47 +0000

http://instagr.am/p/UJqaK/?ref=nf

(smiling…im even wearing a flag as we speak…believe me…its in the culture :)

By: panos skoulidas

panos skoulidas — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:10:59 +0000

I’m also quite surprised to find US national flags as table clothes, even in a military base! I expected white table clothes!
To me it feels like intense propaganda.
———————————————–

Jerome, this is how we do in America! 4th of July, Veteran’s day, Thanks Giving etc..flags everywhere…Stars and stripes bikinis, shirts, tablecloths , everything and everywhere..its absolutely in the culture..everyhome has a flag, every garage a flag, every car has a flag..and im not talking about Bible Belt states ..no no..everywhere..especially after 9/11 flags everywhere.its part of the culture….and of course in a military base thats the most expected, decoration, styling etc…
Its like a fetish…in my travels, only in Turkey ive seen a way more exaggerated/developed FLAG fetish than here in the US…

By: Windup

Windup — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:38:05 +0000

Put an iphone on that table next to the food and plastic water bottle and you’ve got what democracy is all about.

By: mw

mw — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:17:57 +0000

I like this kind of thing. Of course from just looking at the pictures I would never guess that it was about democracy, but I would see that it is about more than the content of the individual photos. I like work that raises questions yet provides no easy answers. And I, too, like the subdued palette here.

That first picture is very interesting interesting. What’s up with the meal? Is that what he’s eating? Is it what the soldiers typically eat? Is it an exaggerated setup? It must contain at least 3500 calories.

By: john gladdy

john gladdy — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 10:49:11 +0000

for me , only the first image has any chance of standing. It can be read, and its quite a strong image.
The rest are just blah, held together with captions. Three guys sitting by a river…so what?
A fat G.I by a burger bar….WOW! Cannot see the point of this at all, or where it will get its legs from.

John

By: Frostfrog

Frostfrog — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:47:58 +0000

I think I would have been fine with this if I had not read the text first – or better yet, never read the text. Baptiste has some strong images that do raise the question of the title, particularly #1, as well as several good pictures that one might never associate with that theme.

As to the text, in general I was finding it riding the hard edge of hyperbole and then I got to the “quote” from Abraham Lincoln. That really threw me off. I understand that English is a second or maybe even a third or fourth language here, but, if one is going to quote what may be the most famous line ever written and uttered by one the two most famous of American presidents, please take five seconds to google that quote and get it right.

This is what Abraham Lincoln said in his Gettysburg address:

that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom — and “that government of the people, by the people, for the people,” shall not perish from the earth.

I may seem a little pedantic here, but to me the difference between “that government of” and “the power to” is significant – and all Baptiste needed to do was google.

Still – strong essay and I am very impressed with Baptiste’s ability to hop about the world and to gain access even to Guantanamo and come away with good pictures that state his viewpoint.