Comments on: william eckersley alexander shields – u.s.80

By: goto

goto — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 04:48:58 +0000

goto…

[...]william eckersley alexander shields – u.s.80 | burn magazine[...]…

By: Steve Gubin

Steve Gubin — Sun, 29 May 2011 18:52:14 +0000

Sometimes the comments that accompany these essays can evoke as much thought as the essay itself. In any work of reasonable competence, almost any aspect can be singled out for either criticism or praise. That said (and without comparison to Soth, Shore, “new topographists”, etc.), as a subjective preference, I would have liked to see at least a few candid images of some of the individuals along US 80. Not that “candid” is intrinsically superior to “posed”, but rather that candid shots have a higher likelihood of capturing an energy, dynamism, or enigmatic quality than a posed photograph. This is a minor quibble, however, for the images of the woman leanng against the truck cab, the man in the street with his pitbull, the well-dressed gentleman in the blue suit all give the viewer clues as to their lifestyles and personality. (“Tommy” of Benson, AZ is immediately powerful for its dark humor.) And in this instance, one could just as easily praise the posed images for consistency of style.

The images in this essay which, to me, convey the greatest atmosphere and sense of place are of lone houses and buildings. Love the lone Prada store in Marfa, TX, and the night shot of the jacked up truck in Midland, TX. Sometimes comparisons are hard to avoid, as the interior shot of the motel room in El Paso resonates with some of Eggleston’s work.

Some might criticize this essay as being derivative (but then, what isn’t?), but overall I find it engaging, atmospheric, and the whole essay weightier than the sum of its parts.

By: Spaces: | F-Stop Drop and Roll

Spaces: | F-Stop Drop and Roll — Mon, 16 May 2011 17:01:48 +0000

[...] here is another project they did that I thought kind of worked well with your project, [...]

By: Paul

Paul — Thu, 07 Apr 2011 14:06:19 +0000

John Gladdy…

Thanks, yes it does seem to be a case of not seeing the forest for the trees. I’m going to just LOOK as you quite rightly pointed out and enjoy the work and forget the over-intellectualise the images.

By: Jeff Hladun

Jeff Hladun — Thu, 07 Apr 2011 12:51:24 +0000

Michael – yikes! Yes, meant Allan.

Bob – I figured…and did mean Mrs.T! ;)

By: bob black

bob black — Thu, 07 Apr 2011 12:11:00 +0000

WILL :)

thanks for chiming in…good stuff…still would love a project beyond the obvious pictorial nomencluature…would be interesting to see Chanarin and Broomberg and you and Alexander take a road trip, open up the back of a uhaul and create a long exposure/back-of-the-truck camera obscura….that’d be worth it :)))…stick around :))

Paul: ditto, about frank…a major problem with ideas (and criticism) of work of the pass is that we both see/feel and analyze vis-a-vis our own concerns/ideas in this time….Errol Morris wrote about this phenomenon recently in the Times (see MW’s link)….i’ll try to wade in on Frank next week..

Jeff: nope…i was a kid in the 70′s….but i sat in a bloom lecture in Chicago….and yes, have read bloom…and yes, Ravelstein…sometimes i love bloom, sometimes i do not…mixed feelings…bellow, always love, period…i’m amerian….toronto/canada is a relatively new experience for me (since i got hitched and left my life and art career in the states for anonymity of toronto….been a rejeuvination….will fill u in on that when we meet…and yes, Larry is an amazing guy and very gracious…..and his wife is a writer, but i don’t know who he was accompanied by….and yes, my wife is both hot/intelligent and kind/loving and a great artists to boot….her next show, this october….

By: michael kircher

michael kircher — Thu, 07 Apr 2011 12:01:00 +0000

Actually… Ravelstein=Allan Bloom.

By: Jeff Hladun

Jeff Hladun — Thu, 07 Apr 2011 11:42:05 +0000

Will!:

Thanks a lot for that review. Thanks too for adding Chanarin and Broomberg to the short list. I’m thinking these days about David’s Rio trip, and to an extent how the energies of the “dreamteam” (as was described, and headed, by Roberta :) ) spilled over into David’s work. This is of particular interest as I’ve shared the excitement of working with another photographer in such a manner as to elevate and inspire the both of us. I wonder about the energies of the two of you on this road trip, and whether each of you experienced a sum greater than the parts. For instance, #16 “Copper Stained Wall” brings to me an association with Ayers’ Rock in Australia. Were either of you thinking geologically during the moment?

Congratulations on the essay, and thanks for the post above. Now, more please!

Paul:

Keep in mind that when we read “The Americans” these days, it is sort of like that saying about “sleeping with your lover’s lovers”. One aspect that makes the work one of the most important photography books of the last century is all of the pondering and contemplation that has come after it. It’s been analyzed like no other and we can’t help but to experience it through the prism of others, before us. I’m not even too sure we can read it the way Frank’s first critics could. Just a few essays ago, Imants wrote of how Van Gogh transcended the Impressionists; but that is ex-post to the time. Cezanne told Vincent -then- that he “painted like a madman”…not the sort of thing a struggling artist wants to hear from his hero!

Top of the day Bob:

No, I didn’t see the quiet photographer…and how did I miss the hot wife! ;) But, while paying at the parking lot, I did have a short, awe-struck and inarticulate conversation with Towell (and his hot partner). I noticed no cell phone or camera on him…at least not his X-Pan…

De Tocqueville, huh? Were you in Toronto late seventies and sit in on Harold Bloom’s lectures about the man? Read Bloom, maybe? Or about him as Saul Bellows Ravelstein?

By: williameckersley

williameckersley — Thu, 07 Apr 2011 09:42:18 +0000

Hi,
Just a quick thanks to anyone taking the time to look at our essay! I’ll try to make a few relevant remarks, but as a “first-time caller” watch out for this reply going somewhat off track…
The portraits were in fact shot 6×7, whilst the landscapes were usually 5×4.
no.36 (Prada shop) does indeed exist. It’s near Marfa in Texas and is the only shot that’s not actually on old route 80 – we just loved it a lot (although contentiously it’s not of course our artwork and credits should be due elsewhere).
no.14 was an amazing house (didn’t explore inside though) – derelict and abandoned spaces are old interests of mine…
I’m not sure about the space between the camera and subject for the portraits, I’ll have to ask Alex… Although I do like that style – very continental deadpan! I guess the road (and its geography) was always the thread running through the project, so we felt those shots worked better as more “environmental portraits” rather than closeups.
Tommy (no.29) was a nice guy, albeit a sandwich short of a picnic – kinda glad he didn’t pull the trigger.
I don’t think shooting on film necessarily makes anything better (just harder!), but they do have great resolution for prints. I do also like the look of film, and how it doesn’t render shots as cleanly and clinically as digital can. I think this poster (and many others) have talked in their comments about Soth, Shore, Sternfeld and others in comparison to how our essay looks… If anyone is simply wondering whether we’re just ripping off these guys – of course! Not even particularly well! Hey, I guess we all have start somewhere; SSS and others (Simon, Struth or Seawright for example) are people I admire a lot, and I hope channeling them in some small way will help my own style develop, etc. I believe it important to try to break the rules (and aspire to try this), but at this stage I’m not sure I know the rules sufficiently! Sorry to those who found it too generic – wait for my next project (Gregory Crewdson and Todd Hido’s lawyers particularly).
Apologies also to anyone wanting more explanation from the captions. Somehow less is more, and great detail reveals how pedestrian most situations are – although I’m sure it can be frustrating for the viewer…
Regarding photo-pairs, I’d add Chanarin and Broomberg, and thanks for a lovely post! Stillness is definitely something I want to bring to my photography. There is an element of been there and seen it in this stuff though – I wish I had more time in that part of the world to get under the skin, and I did always feel like a tourist. I guess you need to know the rules before breaking them, and know a subject (truly well) before revealing it (err, truly well!)
Lastly, someone mentioned a dead animal museum in Tuscon, which I’m now gutted to have missed! Lura was shot in the Touchstone Museum (owned by her family) outside Shreveport.
Phew… thanks again for looking at our photos, and well done getting all the way through this essay. Not sure I’ve quite got the hang of simply “commenting”, and since this has taken an hour, it might be my last for a while! Best wishes,
Will

By: john gladdy

john gladdy — Thu, 07 Apr 2011 08:05:14 +0000

Paul. All the books I have seen of this work are a disapointment. having seen the work in the flesh at the met I can confirm that it is mainly stunning. at proper print size they have real weight and gravity.
Maybe its good to stop trying to intelectualise work and second guess artists motives. LOOK at the work.
Each individual image is a self contained statement/question/
That there is coherence running through all the series is an achievment, but most of the pictures themselves, in isolation, are still great photography.

By: Paul

Paul — Thu, 07 Apr 2011 07:54:04 +0000

I read every interview and essay written on the Americans i find…i begin to like this gentleman, i watch some video interview and things get better, i begin to think i’ve found a new perspective on the Americans and as I’ve said i enjoying listening and reading his interviews…then i pick up the book and i just don’t recognize the artist i previously enjoyed…

By: Herve

Herve — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 23:10:42 +0000

JEFF:
for those who don’t see it remember a certain project from a few decades ago, where a foreigner drove the roads across America, and how his work was criticized
——————
Who knows, Maybe they remembered that certain project, and still feel like criticizing the essay….

By: Imants

Imants — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:59:00 +0000

I do long haul trips here in Oz 3-4 times a year ……. hardly ever take the camera out …………… got better things to do

By: mw

mw — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:23:53 +0000

Of course a major part of an artist’s work is about the artist. That’s not the question. The question is is the artist interesting?

By: Paul

Paul — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 20:30:13 +0000

Well my last comment also goes to Bob :) another spate of synchronicity :) I wouldn’t be surprised if David even though he is an ardent fan of the Americans can see my point about the negativity…

By: Paul

Paul — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 20:25:43 +0000

MW…

I don’t know, I just have immense trouble reconciling with the love for Frank’s essay. I just keep seeing a guy who has disdain for everyone round him. Hey! I may be totally wrong but I tend to always look for the positive in others work… can’t find it anywhere in that book and it bothers me intensely.

By: bob black

bob black — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 20:17:51 +0000

PRESTON :))))))))))))))))….

PAUL

on the idea of frank and alec…yes, the journey was about Frank, as all journeys are, essentially (the journey taker)…and that is my biggest frustration with this essay….and yes, Sternfeld is a social documentarian but his books add insight into, or seems, to be his own very own authorial relationship to the expanse of the lives burning/moving/falling/sleeping/swimming/running/lazying across america….

but it is retrospective evaluation of Americans that everyone speaks of….when asked recently to participate in the big project that Jason E is putting together on the reflection of Americans, i choose and wrote about the picture that means the most to me in that book…and it is less about ‘americans’ than it is about a journey…which is what Americans is about for me….but, you’ll have to wait until that eventually gets published, as no time to re-write, and it’s been promised away ;))….

no time to write, alas….maybe in a couple of weeks…

By: mw

mw — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 19:15:09 +0000

It’s been awhile since I saw it at the Met, but I’d be very surprised if Frank was just some Swiss guy driving around, incognizant of what was going on in front of his lens. He had pretty much infinite choices of what to shoot and it’s very unlikely he just happened to capture so much of what was really going on. And that seemed even more clear from looking at his contact sheets. Dude knew what he was after.

By: Paul

Paul — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 18:36:35 +0000

BTW that quote is from an Alec Soth interview…

By: Paul

Paul — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 18:14:59 +0000

“But see, I think that stuff’s overstated in Robert Frank. Let’s just talk Frank for a little bit in relation to this bigger topic of America. First of all, when I first saw Robert Frank, it wasn’t this transformational thing for me the way it is for everyone else. I came to admire him much later. But I think I’m doing very similar things to what he’s doing in a way that’s quite different from, say, Joel Sternfeld. And this is where I’m able to distinguish these things, because Sternfeld is actually more of a social documentarian. He really is interested in the social issues of the day, looking at them and thinking about changes.

I don’t think that’s what Robert Frank was about. I think he was this Swiss guy coming to America, driving around, feeling enchanted and lonely simultaneously, and it just so happens that he encounters America and aspects of it and documents some of that. And then the work is read as a commentary on America. But the work is so much about the tortured soul of Robert Frank. And that becomes super evident in later work.”
Glad to see I’m not the only one who didn’t initially warm to this classic. Same with this essay it shouldn’t be seen as more than a very light casual commentary on this part of America. Having lived in three countries for a more than a couple of years one cannot expect to show anything more than a very superficial perspective of a place until you eat, live breath a place and still it will be highly subjective of your cultural background.

Probably like MW I’ve never understood Stephen Shaw’s “Uncommon Places”, so if anyone is in a teaching or writing mood I’d loved to be enlightened.