Comments on: panos skoulidas – wandering in greece http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2010/03/panos-skoulidas-wandering-in-greece/ burn is an online feature for emerging photographers worldwide. burn is curated by magnum photographer david alan harvey. Wed, 08 Feb 2012 23:17:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: A Night At the Magnum Book Signing | Bryan Formhals http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2010/03/panos-skoulidas-wandering-in-greece/comment-page-7/#comment-72267 A Night At the Magnum Book Signing | Bryan Formhals Sat, 26 Jun 2010 18:14:40 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=5584#comment-72267 [...] my thoughts over at LPV. I also had a chance to chat with David Alan Harvey a bit and Burn regulars Panos Skoulidas and Chris Bickford, all great [...] [...] my thoughts over at LPV. I also had a chance to chat with David Alan Harvey a bit and Burn regulars Panos Skoulidas and Chris Bickford, all great [...]

]]> By: Herve http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2010/03/panos-skoulidas-wandering-in-greece/comment-page-7/#comment-68839 Herve Thu, 13 May 2010 21:20:08 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=5584#comment-68839 Photos shot in Greece, but not of Greece, a perfectly sensitive and actual approach, not the least unnatural or insincere for that, on the contrary. some shots leave me blank, but most I find totally enjoyable and worthy of scrutiny. What is seen, not seen, said, not said. Keep up that good work, Panos, and thanks for these vignettes of life somewhere, Greece accidentally, in 2010. Gorgeous, positive (?) color palette in the portraits (+context) one, that I had not seen in your LA work so much. Photos shot in Greece, but not of Greece, a perfectly sensitive and actual approach, not the least unnatural or insincere for that, on the contrary. some shots leave me blank, but most I find totally enjoyable and worthy of scrutiny. What is seen, not seen, said, not said. Keep up that good work, Panos, and thanks for these vignettes of life somewhere, Greece accidentally, in 2010. Gorgeous, positive (?) color palette in the portraits (+context) one, that I had not seen in your LA work so much.

]]> By: panos skoulidas http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2010/03/panos-skoulidas-wandering-in-greece/comment-page-7/#comment-66165 panos skoulidas Tue, 06 Apr 2010 13:16:55 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=5584#comment-66165 "The editing in many Burn essays is off. I don’t think Harvey is as good an editor as he thinks. I think he should respect the choices of the photographers a bit more and make it more a joint effort rather than running slipshod over their work." ------------------------------------------------------- Andrea..:) Firstly thank you for checking the essay...(and thanks for wishing it was longer..i posted more links under comments so feel free to see more and more...plus more coming up as im still shooting in greece).. and i have to admit u got some balls to write off Harveys editing skills... Personally i dont "let" D. edit just because he is David... i trust his experience and poetic nature..As far as i know though, he always runs the edit back to the photog... just to be in the same page with them (us)..And i think that he edits ONLY if he is asked...For example , slideshows or multimedia ( think Imants essay ) are small example of "unedited by DAH" presentations... I dont know what other essayists have to say but in my case there was a lot of back and forth going on editing wise (through skype of course )till we end up in the final (for Burn of course ) edit ... Most of the essays here are evolving ...not done..work in progress..therefore...edit is subjective and represents the given time been published... but anyway..this is your opinion..its respected and obviously , as you wrote above, this is something u wanted to say and communicate for quite a while now... peace “The editing in many Burn essays is off. I don’t think Harvey is as good an editor as he thinks. I think he should respect the choices of the photographers a bit more and make it more a joint effort rather than running slipshod over their work.”
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Andrea..:)
Firstly thank you for checking the essay…(and thanks for wishing it was longer..i posted more links under comments so feel free to see more and more…plus more coming up as im still shooting in greece)..

and i have to admit u got some balls to write off Harveys editing skills…
Personally i dont “let” D. edit just because he is David… i trust his experience and poetic nature..As far as i know though, he always runs the edit back to the photog…
just to be in the same page with them (us)..And i think that he edits ONLY if he is asked…For example , slideshows or multimedia ( think Imants essay ) are small example of “unedited by DAH” presentations…
I dont know what other essayists have to say but in my case there was a lot of back and forth going on editing wise (through skype of course )till we end up in the final (for Burn of course ) edit …
Most of the essays here are evolving …not done..work in progress..therefore…edit is subjective and represents the given time been published…

but anyway..this is your opinion..its respected and obviously , as you wrote above, this is something u wanted to say and communicate for quite a while now…
peace

]]> By: AndreaC http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2010/03/panos-skoulidas-wandering-in-greece/comment-page-7/#comment-66108 AndreaC Tue, 06 Apr 2010 06:35:14 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=5584#comment-66108 Very lovely pictures - most. I wish it were longer. I haven't read the whole discussion but i got up to the beginning of the discussion about editing and nice things being in the link that were chopped out. I think its about time I say something that I've thought for a long time. The editing in many Burn essays is off. I don't think Harvey is as good an editor as he thinks. I think he should respect the choices of the photographers a bit more and make it more a joint effort rather than running slipshod over their work. To clarify, though its not a case here. Often i've noticed that the start of an essay includes a number of strong images that don't link together. Its like some images are chosen the represent the edges of the topic. When viewing the beginning, I often have the feeling of being at sea about what's going on. After a bit, the images start to show more links to each other and the story starts to flow and make more sense and at the end, are a few weaker pictures. Undoubtedly people - if anyone reads this - will not understand what I am trying to say here. I am not sure I am being too clear. Still, i have noticed this in quite a few essays and have held my tongue til now. Very lovely pictures – most. I wish it were longer. I haven’t read the whole discussion but i got up to the beginning of the discussion about editing and nice things being in the link that were chopped out. I think its about time I say something that I’ve thought for a long time. The editing in many Burn essays is off. I don’t think Harvey is as good an editor as he thinks. I think he should respect the choices of the photographers a bit more and make it more a joint effort rather than running slipshod over their work.

To clarify, though its not a case here. Often i’ve noticed that the start of an essay includes a number of strong images that don’t link together. Its like some images are chosen the represent the edges of the topic. When viewing the beginning, I often have the feeling of being at sea about what’s going on. After a bit, the images start to show more links to each other and the story starts to flow and make more sense and at the end, are a few weaker pictures. Undoubtedly people – if anyone reads this – will not understand what I am trying to say here. I am not sure I am being too clear. Still, i have noticed this in quite a few essays and have held my tongue til now.

]]> By: panos skoulidas http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2010/03/panos-skoulidas-wandering-in-greece/comment-page-7/#comment-65068 panos skoulidas Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:45:18 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=5584#comment-65068 from Patrick Zachmann: Greece. August 2009. Island of Samos. Greek coast guards patrol the Agean sea where illegal immigrants try to cross the border coming from Kusadasi on the Turkish side. They want to arrive in Europe where they can ask for asylum and make a new life. Most of them come from Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Eastern Europe, Algeria, Morocco or Palestine. The migrants usually pay traffickers between 1000 and 2000 dollars, depending if one of them will go with the migrants or not. In 2008 police arrested around 2700 illegal immigrants in Samos alone and 80000 in all of Greece. Here, 18 migrants are found at 5:20am. One coast guard is drawing a rifle on them as if they were criminals and shouts: "Hands up! Don't touch the boat!" Migrants often try to cut their dinghy so that the coast guards are forced to save them from sinking. In this way they are sure that they won't be sent back to Turkey. They are claiming they are "Afghans" in order to get the international status of refugees and protection. One of the guard coast shouted back: "If you are Afghans, I am Swedish!" They will be arrested by police, their fingerprints taken and sent to the detention center on Samos. from Patrick Zachmann:
Greece. August 2009. Island of Samos. Greek coast guards patrol the Agean sea where illegal immigrants try to cross the border coming from Kusadasi on the Turkish side. They want to arrive in Europe where they can ask for asylum and make a new life. Most of them come from Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Eastern Europe, Algeria, Morocco or Palestine. The migrants usually pay traffickers between 1000 and 2000 dollars, depending if one of them will go with the migrants or not. In 2008 police arrested around 2700 illegal immigrants in Samos alone and 80000 in all of Greece. Here, 18 migrants are found at 5:20am. One coast guard is drawing a rifle on them as if they were criminals and shouts: “Hands up! Don’t touch the boat!” Migrants often try to cut their dinghy so that the coast guards are forced to save them from sinking. In this way they are sure that they won’t be sent back to Turkey. They are claiming they are “Afghans” in order to get the international status of refugees and protection. One of the guard coast shouted back: “If you are Afghans, I am Swedish!” They will be arrested by police, their fingerprints taken and sent to the detention center on Samos.

]]> By: panos skoulidas http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2010/03/panos-skoulidas-wandering-in-greece/comment-page-7/#comment-65067 panos skoulidas Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:42:52 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=5584#comment-65067 thank u Ben... also patrick zachmann gave it a try... http://www.magnumphotos.com/Archive/C.aspx?VP3=ViewBox&VBID=2K1HZS113X0D&IT=ThumbImage02_VForm&CT=Album&ALID=2TYRYD0PRVM4&RW=1349&RH=641 thank u Ben…
also patrick zachmann gave it a try…

http://www.magnumphotos.com/Archive/C.aspx?VP3=ViewBox&VBID=2K1HZS113X0D&IT=ThumbImage02_VForm&CT=Album&ALID=2TYRYD0PRVM4&RW=1349&RH=641

]]> By: benroberts http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2010/03/panos-skoulidas-wandering-in-greece/comment-page-7/#comment-65065 benroberts Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:22:26 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=5584#comment-65065 panos - re. immigrants and athens - you should check out jim goldbergs book 'open see'. http://www.magnumphotos.com/Archive/c.aspx?VP=XSpecific_MAG.BookDetail_VPage&pid=2K7O3RTNFMS3 panos – re. immigrants and athens – you should check out jim goldbergs book ‘open see’.

http://www.magnumphotos.com/Archive/c.aspx?VP=XSpecific_MAG.BookDetail_VPage&pid=2K7O3RTNFMS3

]]> By: panos skoulidas http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2010/03/panos-skoulidas-wandering-in-greece/comment-page-7/#comment-65063 panos skoulidas Thu, 18 Mar 2010 20:50:45 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=5584#comment-65063 my plan is to disappoint ------------------------ hmmm... keep disappointing maybe....;) my plan is to
disappoint
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hmmm… keep disappointing maybe….;)

]]> By: panos skoulidas http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2010/03/panos-skoulidas-wandering-in-greece/comment-page-7/#comment-65062 panos skoulidas Thu, 18 Mar 2010 20:44:29 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=5584#comment-65062 correction: .my plan is to disappoint all those who already feel disappointed… correction:
.my plan is to disappoint all those who already feel disappointed…

]]> By: panos skoulidas http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2010/03/panos-skoulidas-wandering-in-greece/comment-page-7/#comment-65061 panos skoulidas Thu, 18 Mar 2010 20:43:49 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=5584#comment-65061 he he..my plan is to not disappoint all those who already feel disappointed... he he..my plan is to not disappoint all those who already feel disappointed…

]]> By: Imants http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2010/03/panos-skoulidas-wandering-in-greece/comment-page-7/#comment-65060 Imants Thu, 18 Mar 2010 20:36:32 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=5584#comment-65060 Panos do it all in Ellies capsule relationship style ........... can't wait for the ending Panos do it all in Ellies capsule relationship style ……….. can’t wait for the ending

]]> By: panos skoulidas http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2010/03/panos-skoulidas-wandering-in-greece/comment-page-7/#comment-65030 panos skoulidas Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:13:21 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=5584#comment-65030 Ian...i agree Ian…i agree

]]> By: aitken http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2010/03/panos-skoulidas-wandering-in-greece/comment-page-7/#comment-65029 aitken Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:05:19 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=5584#comment-65029 Panos, I understand the issue of getting people into trouble, but surely this is not an issue but an excuse. I think there have been essays on here where people have been up no good and yet their stories are photographer/published for let's say "the greater good", which in its self is a tricky argument as who's good is it? When I worked on a documentary in Soweto (S.A) the working mantra of the film was "who benefits" this applied both to our working ethos but also to the main questions of the post apartheid south africa. I think there was an essay on immigrants crossing the mexican border a while back. cheers I Panos, I understand the issue of getting people into trouble, but surely this is not an issue but an excuse. I think there have been essays on here where people have been up no good and yet their stories are photographer/published for let’s say “the greater good”, which in its self is a tricky argument as who’s good is it? When I worked on a documentary in Soweto (S.A) the working mantra of the film was “who benefits” this applied both to our working ethos but also to the main questions of the post apartheid south africa.

I think there was an essay on immigrants crossing the mexican border a while back.

cheers

I

]]> By: panos skoulidas http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2010/03/panos-skoulidas-wandering-in-greece/comment-page-7/#comment-65026 panos skoulidas Thu, 18 Mar 2010 14:04:06 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=5584#comment-65026 again.. i just grabbed the opportunity to explain some extra things to Burn and myself... and i totally agree with you..thats why i thought of befriending an immigrant..get an "insider" and become insider myself...not exploit anyone.. ploblem is as Eva stated i cant photograph..illegals...mention names..where they live etc..i have to portray "legal" immigrants...so they are not in danger...many people watching the web lately..and i would never forgive myself if anyone gets in trouble because of a freakin essay... again.. i just grabbed the opportunity to explain some extra things to Burn and myself…
and i totally agree with you..thats why i thought of befriending an immigrant..get an “insider” and become insider myself…not exploit anyone..
ploblem is as Eva stated i cant photograph..illegals…mention names..where they live etc..i have to portray “legal” immigrants…so they are not in danger…many people watching the web lately..and i would never forgive myself if anyone gets in trouble because of a freakin essay…

]]> By: panos skoulidas http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2010/03/panos-skoulidas-wandering-in-greece/comment-page-7/#comment-65025 panos skoulidas Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:59:29 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=5584#comment-65025 Ian.. i loved and love your ideas... Ian..
i loved and love your ideas…

]]> By: aitken http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2010/03/panos-skoulidas-wandering-in-greece/comment-page-7/#comment-65024 aitken Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:57:08 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=5584#comment-65024 Hey Panos, I an not questioning your essay, I can see what you are doing. Just thought I'd throw in a few ideas..... I Hey Panos, I an not questioning your essay, I can see what you are doing.

Just thought I’d throw in a few ideas…..

I

]]> By: panos skoulidas http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2010/03/panos-skoulidas-wandering-in-greece/comment-page-7/#comment-65021 panos skoulidas Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:14:51 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=5584#comment-65021 ...when the greek essay first came i got an email..from a good friend of mine , also saying:"I'm disappointed because i see no greece in your essay..show me greece..where greece is?" im an immigrant of this world..i cant show greece..i dont even know what greece is either ...i was simply born there...then my pigeon soul flew over another country...i cant describe my "other" home either..whats the name of those birds that they leave once the winter comes and return with summer? i forget the name..but that is my soul..that is why "wandering in greece".. …when the greek essay first came i got an email..from a good friend of mine , also saying:”I’m disappointed because i see no greece in your essay..show me greece..where greece is?”
im an immigrant of this world..i cant show greece..i dont even know what greece is either …i was simply born there…then my pigeon soul flew over another country…i cant describe my “other” home either..whats the name of those birds that they leave once the winter comes and return with summer? i forget the name..but that is my soul..that is why “wandering in greece”..

]]> By: panos skoulidas http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2010/03/panos-skoulidas-wandering-in-greece/comment-page-7/#comment-65018 panos skoulidas Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:03:02 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=5584#comment-65018 photo no3..immigrant street fair also.. photo no4..from an immigrant protest... photo no6..symbolizes the immigrant soul landed in the "greek promised land".. photo no14..also symbolizes the wish to tranfer to a better, prosperous land..the need to escape.. why all that? my whole greek essay is about the Immigrant dream, the immigrants soul.fears,wishes.... why? Because it is autobiographical..because that Immigrant is ME.. and finally the photo no1 ahhhhhhhhhhh..the photo no1..the pigeon that is taking off.. ahh thats the Immigrant spirit...my spirit...that is ready to depart for a new land.. "The No Direction Home" land.. my land.. or the "go back home" land... photo no3..immigrant street fair also..
photo no4..from an immigrant protest…
photo no6..symbolizes the immigrant soul landed in the “greek promised land”..
photo no14..also symbolizes the wish to tranfer to a better, prosperous land..the need to escape..

why all that? my whole greek essay is about the Immigrant dream, the immigrants soul.fears,wishes….
why? Because it is autobiographical..because that Immigrant is ME..
and finally the photo no1
ahhhhhhhhhhh..the photo no1..the pigeon that is taking off..
ahh thats the Immigrant spirit…my spirit…that is ready to depart for a new land..
“The No Direction Home” land..
my land..
or the “go back home” land…

]]> By: michael webster http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2010/03/panos-skoulidas-wandering-in-greece/comment-page-7/#comment-65017 michael webster Thu, 18 Mar 2010 12:56:50 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=5584#comment-65017 <i>it was the strike of light in their faces i cared about</i> Guess I saw it after all. it was the strike of light in their faces i cared about

Guess I saw it after all.

]]> By: panos skoulidas http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2010/03/panos-skoulidas-wandering-in-greece/comment-page-7/#comment-65016 panos skoulidas Thu, 18 Mar 2010 12:55:39 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=5584#comment-65016 Also the photo number 17..in this essay.. Immigrants from pakistan wandering around a small greek town starving, no help except Red Cross.. To make things worst the fear of the locals..created some crazy stories..Those immigrants are accused of killing and eating the dogs/pets of the locals..."Demons"..The pakistani immigrants are now victims of the albanian mafia...they "hire" them only for one plate of food for a whole day of work in the fields...they leave under the bridges...get sick and no doctors will treat them..they are demons.. Also the photo number 17..in this essay..
Immigrants from pakistan wandering around a small greek town starving, no help except Red Cross..
To make things worst the fear of the locals..created some crazy stories..Those immigrants are accused of killing and eating the dogs/pets of the locals…”Demons”..The pakistani immigrants are now victims of the albanian mafia…they “hire” them only for one plate of food for a whole day of work in the fields…they leave under the bridges…get sick and no doctors will treat them..they are demons..

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