thats one possibility and we have already done that on LFA, we have already spotlighted 2 photographers and we are going to do a third. I always encourage them to publish to Burn, too, but I don’t think that for Burn me editing one photographer would really work on Burn. I know I would want to have the ultimate control over my own work if it were going up on Burn not part of a group edit and I would not presume to try and edit solely one person and take credit for any part of the work. I think that can work on LFA because there I am an editor but not on Burn where you already have David who is a much better editior than me and this is his platform.

Rafal I have no objection to your curation or the Flickr photos being published here. I would prefer as the curator you choose one photographer’s album, curate that and submit it to Burn. I think that would be a lot more powerful, would highlight that particular photographer, and avoid much of the the critical commentary. The term democratization of photography has come up a few times. I think it is important to realize that democracies seldom work as intended and if we really want to talk about democracy and every human being on the planet had one vote the planet would be the Global Republic of Communist China. David has said in reference in his workshops and curation “this is not a democracy” If we choose democracy over content then we are choosing mediocrity over genius and inspiration.

Jason well said, not sure if being referred to with Jim in the same sentence is good or bad.

And I’m sure that family albums are more interesting than this. But this isn’t a competition with family albums. And the reason why family albums are more interesting is that family albums are more coherent, they actually create real storylines because the photos are related to one another, there is a temporal line running through them, you see a real in depth evolution of a family within its pages. How could this compete? it couldn’t and that’s why an attempt to force some imaginary story onto these photos was never even attempted as it would be an exercise in futility and dishonesty. That’s why it isn’t a documentary, it isn’t a story, it isn’t a essay in that sense if you simply see an essay as a literal journey from start to finish. In that case it flatlines but I think you need to open up your mind to other interpretations of what essays can be because not everything is “Here and here this and this happened.” I mean I took a look at your personal page and I could see your point, you are very much into a literal interpretation of things and that’s fine, but it doesn’t all have to be that way.

While burn is certainly a valuable resource, and achievement given the recent Lucie Award (congrats DAH and others!), I’m disappointed at the flippant attitude towards certain groups on Flickr which offer far more robust discussions about photography than are allowed here simply because of how content is delivered. Recent posts by Joerg Colberg display the same kind of attitude where he sensationalizes that Flickr gives him a headache. I won’t offer an apology for that, only a Tylenol — maybe. Communities such as burn, HCSP or LFA are each families living under their own roof. While it may be challenging for us to visit your home, and you to ours, the kinds discussions at each respective site are bringing mutually inspired people together for at least one purpose: improve photography. By pairing up with trusted peers who critique, introduce new ideas, and distribute a wealth of information, such as that found in HCSP, a photographer can improve no matter where or how they network.

Anyway…

LFA doesn’t have any big plans to upset the the Fine Art world, though I do think it will eventually happen because making and publishing photographs is out of their control. I think I can speak for many members at LFA by saying we simply want to make nice pictures for our families. If a person or group can elevate these so that a new reference point is adopted in galleries, museums and zines, more power to them! It’s something I would like to see.

As far as Flickr gaining advertising rights to our photos: you’re dead wrong. Posting photos to Flickr does not give consent, explicit or otherwise, (i.e., Flick or Yahoo, or Getty, for that matter) to use a photographer’s image in any way except to post it to the users photostream. At that point, it is up to the user to license their images as they wish. For me: I retain full copyright with all rights reserved. Others use Creative Commons, which I oppose, but it is ultimately their choice. It is only a fraction of these CC images that Yahoo! can use for advertising, but they don’t need Flickr to achieve that. At most, the platform makes these photographs more accessible and, thus, available to a wider audience which means they can be wrongly used. But that can happen via burn or any other website. Aside from La Familia Abrazada, another group I help admin is the Licensing Awareness Working (LAW) Group which helps inform photographers about their rights. So, aside from identifying emerging and established photographers, Flickr can also serve as a tool for education about copyright

http://www.flickr.com/groups/lawgroup/

I see nothing exceptional visually and feel no personal connection to these families through these pictures…

We’re all photographers here (with the exception of Civi…) and if any of us was to go through his archive he’d come up with at least something similar to the LFA “essay”, and probably many would come up with something way more interesting…

This reflects my very particular tastes and is in regard to the work at hand. There is no doubt that there IS amazing work on Flickr, on Photonet, on Artmesh, on Deviantart, etc, etc… it just happens that this is NOT it.

By the way, if I’m not mistaken, there was a link a while back with what I thought at the time was a pitch of an edit from the LFA pool that contained WAY better pictures.

I do agree some of these images are posed and a bit goofy – perhaps that speaks for the individual in the image? I know in my family, we have a wide mix of goofballs, boring stiffs, salesmen, and young punks.
Think about the world as a family – what a mind boggling mix of madness it must be!

I will check out HCSP though. Thanks for the tip.

@Rafal- Nice work! Thanks for bringing la familia to burn. It’s wonderful to see this cross-section of photographs from the group on a different platform. Also, thanks to the family of photographers at LFA who contributed to the edit and to the group’s pool. It’s nice to see the recognition on such a prestigious magazine.

yep…Saddam Hussein would do the same…
North Korea also…
thanks for confirming this joe…
viva burn…
viva freedom of speech…
( who needs that photo police..tell it like it is joe…tell it like it is…
coz if i said that, nobody would believe me..)

there’s nobody here, DAH included, that could single-handedly spar with that group as a whole regarding the world of photography and most questions could be answered by purely searching past discussions of HCSP.

there is not a more approachable place in the photographic world than Flickr’s HCSP that gives you instant access to people that go to bed thinking about photography and wake up the next morning still thinking about photography and include members that have won awards and manage publications, and teach classes on the subject.

if i had to list the source of photographic friendships that seem never to grow stale over time and constantly lead to meet-ups that span the world, then almost everyone of them has only one degree of separation from becoming friends first, or at least meeting first (Stefan Rohner) in flickr’s HCSP community.

if i had to pick the place where i argued what i learned, for the most part without any real benefit other than to confirm what i learned over in Flickr’s HCSP was in fact valid and could also stand up to all the kidney punches that a less moderated community would subject (and don’t kid yourself, HCSP would have banned many of the members on Burn ages ago for being more of a distraction than a contributor) then that would be as short list as well, the place i argued what i learned over in Flickr’s HCSP is Burn.

people still don’t realise that Flickr is a piece of software that supports communication; and photographs are communication and Flickr is a piece of software that supports collaboration and a sense of community and in this instance Burn and Flickr are very similar. Where they start to become different is that many healthy communities would not tolerate members that cause more distraction than benefit, Burn is far more tolerant to unhealthy contributors, possibly at it’s own cost to quality contributors, but i’m certain people would debate that, and that debate would bore me.

DAH, Congratulations on the Lucie award, i’m sure it will lead to some paid commissions for the talent you’re promoting, they deserve it. The work you’re promoting continues to keep me very entertained and when i’m on-line i always catch-up with everything that’s been published. Also, i got your e-mail on Saturday, look out for a response in that bloated in-box of yours some time this weekend. i still care deeply about that initiative.

oups,…I missed the aisle …Keep it up.

P.S My apologies fom my first posting and for the second …too .

“People who have attained things worth having in this world have worked while others have idled, have perservered while others gave up in despair, and have practiced early in life the valuable habits of self-denial, industry, and singleness of purpose.”

Grenville Kleiser (American author 1868-1953)

LOVE you ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL… !!!

P.S Keep it UP…I am with you ,next to you, eating fresh arugula…

Thanks also to DAH for being open to different ideas and sources. I must say I’m surprised at the strength of some reactions here and in the dialogue thread, but I suppose it was always going to happen. As long as it’s all about the photos, not the platform, right?