Comments on: raul touzon – path to the ring http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2009/02/raul-touzon-path-to-the-ring/ burn is an online feature for emerging photographers worldwide. burn is curated by magnum photographer david alan harvey. Wed, 08 Feb 2012 22:50:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Queretaro Hotels http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2009/02/raul-touzon-path-to-the-ring/comment-page-2/#comment-43504 Queretaro Hotels Sat, 20 Jun 2009 18:12:12 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=1472#comment-43504 Just wanted to say thanks for the great post ! Found your blog on Google and I'm happy I did. I'll be reading you on a regular basis ! Thanks again :) Thanks, Donna Just wanted to say thanks for the great post ! Found your blog on Google and I’m happy I did. I’ll be reading you on a regular basis ! Thanks again :)
Thanks,
Donna

]]> By: Queretaro Hotels http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2009/02/raul-touzon-path-to-the-ring/comment-page-2/#comment-43503 Queretaro Hotels Sat, 20 Jun 2009 17:50:52 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=1472#comment-43503 I found your blog on google and read a few of your other posts. I just added you to my Google News Reader. Keep up the good work. Look forward to reading more from you in the future. Thanks, Joe I found your blog on google and read a few of your other posts. I just added you to my Google News Reader. Keep up the good work. Look forward to reading more from you in the future.
Thanks,
Joe

]]> By: Raul Touzon http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2009/02/raul-touzon-path-to-the-ring/comment-page-2/#comment-30119 Raul Touzon Tue, 24 Feb 2009 14:07:58 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=1472#comment-30119 Thank you all, for some reason this is not allowing me to reply to each one individually but your comments, suggestions and compliments have been a great learning experience. Hope our paths cross soon. All the best Thank you all, for some reason this is not allowing me to reply to each one individually but your comments, suggestions and compliments have been a great learning experience. Hope our paths cross soon.
All the best

]]> By: david bowen http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2009/02/raul-touzon-path-to-the-ring/comment-page-2/#comment-30118 david bowen Tue, 24 Feb 2009 13:52:08 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=1472#comment-30118 classic photography of a classic subject.. enjoyed that very much, regardless of the right n wrongs. classic photography of a classic subject.. enjoyed that very much, regardless of the right n wrongs.

]]> By: Kendrick http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2009/02/raul-touzon-path-to-the-ring/comment-page-2/#comment-30103 Kendrick Mon, 23 Feb 2009 23:46:22 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=1472#comment-30103 Hey Raul! I loved getting another look at the young bullfighters. Hope all is well! -- Kendrick Hey Raul! I loved getting another look at the young bullfighters. Hope all is well! — Kendrick

]]> By: bobblack http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2009/02/raul-touzon-path-to-the-ring/comment-page-2/#comment-30080 bobblack Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:25:28 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=1472#comment-30080 Kathleen: :)) sorry for the confusion, yes, i believe it was related to web communication. No worries. that's the unfortunate nature of communicating through posts/comments rather than conversations in person. Language, especially written, is a virus ;) all the best bob Kathleen: :))

sorry for the confusion, yes, i believe it was related to web communication. No worries. that’s the unfortunate nature of communicating through posts/comments rather than conversations in person. Language, especially written, is a virus ;)

all the best
bob

]]> By: Medford http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2009/02/raul-touzon-path-to-the-ring/comment-page-2/#comment-30070 Medford Mon, 23 Feb 2009 15:21:43 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=1472#comment-30070 Bravo Raul. Very nice essay and your new website looks great. I still love #19.....it's a classic little moment. I look forward to seeing this work as big prints on a wall and on the pages of a book. I am amused at how much bullshit your bullfight essay has engendered.....enough fertilizer to cover a small organic farm. Stay in the saddle mi amigo. Un fuerte abrazo, Medford Bravo Raul. Very nice essay and your new website looks great. I still love #19…..it’s a classic little moment. I look forward to seeing this work as big prints on a wall and on the pages of a book. I am amused at how much bullshit your bullfight essay has engendered…..enough fertilizer to cover a small organic farm. Stay in the saddle mi amigo.

Un fuerte abrazo,

Medford

]]> By: kathleen fonseca http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2009/02/raul-touzon-path-to-the-ring/comment-page-2/#comment-30066 kathleen fonseca Mon, 23 Feb 2009 14:46:07 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=1472#comment-30066 Hi Bob... yes, yes, i see now, it's simply our difference in using the word Diss..to me it's to disagree for you it's dismiss. So forgive me for my part of the tangled communication. As for R.Ant..i am not defending his position at all. You found his input empty regardless of the meandering text. Good point. But if i have to put up with something, i will choose R. Ant's rant to one line of cryptic disregard any day. And no, i haven't been here very long so haven't seen that much of your posting. Matter of fact, i came here when they featured your essay which i liked a lot btw.. friends? kat~ Hi Bob… yes, yes, i see now, it’s simply our difference in using the word Diss..to me it’s to disagree for you it’s dismiss. So forgive me for my part of the tangled communication. As for R.Ant..i am not defending his position at all. You found his input empty regardless of the meandering text. Good point. But if i have to put up with something, i will choose R. Ant’s rant to one line of cryptic disregard any day. And no, i haven’t been here very long so haven’t seen that much of your posting. Matter of fact, i came here when they featured your essay which i liked a lot btw..

friends?

kat~

]]> By: Kirill Surov http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2009/02/raul-touzon-path-to-the-ring/comment-page-2/#comment-30065 Kirill Surov Mon, 23 Feb 2009 14:45:33 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=1472#comment-30065 I join the praise of Raul's photography - beautiful essay, beautiful images and so unusual flow of the story, as Bob has already pointed out. Definitely it is one of my favorites on Burn. I also apologize for my rather dull and awkward language, I definitely can not keep up after beautiful passages by Bob, Joe and others. Still I wanted to say a couple of words regarding the harsh reaction of viewers towards the what seems to be a barbaric sport, or art as it has been correctly defined here. All of us have a right to our own emotions, reactions, life perception that is based on our culture and life experience. It's just very important to remember that this is our subjective perception and it might be quite different from that of the photographer. While personally, I must say, I despise bull fighting it has nothing to do with the beauty of this story. I find fast acting and expressing opinion based on conscience to be very dangerous. This does not give time to understand the motives and cultural aspects behind other people's deeds. I find that I trust Hemingway (in spite of the fact that I do not share his love to bullfighting) because I can feel that he knew what he was writing about, and knew and respected both matador and a bull. The judging attitude that is quite characteristic to many conscientious photographers makes me to recall the "progressor" series of novels by probably most famous and philosophical Russian science fiction writers - Arkadiy and Boris Strugatzki. It is interesting to read through these series to see the evolution of their ideology towards bringing the "good" into what seems to be retarded civilizations from total support to much more balanced and deep analysis of both sides of such relationships. Humanity is overloaded with the feeling of self guilt and trying to fix its own mistakes by helping out the "barbarian regimes" without their consent. At the same time it hates and fights the possible similar intrusion of the higher beings. What seems to be normal, noble to us may seem barbaric to somebody else. I join the praise of Raul’s photography – beautiful essay, beautiful images and so unusual flow of the story, as Bob has already pointed out. Definitely it is one of my favorites on Burn.
I also apologize for my rather dull and awkward language, I definitely can not keep up after beautiful passages by Bob, Joe and others.
Still I wanted to say a couple of words regarding the harsh reaction of viewers towards the what seems to be a barbaric sport, or art as it has been correctly defined here. All of us have a right to our own emotions, reactions, life perception that is based on our culture and life experience. It’s just very important to remember that this is our subjective perception and it might be quite different from that of the photographer. While personally, I must say, I despise bull fighting it has nothing to do with the beauty of this story. I find fast acting and expressing opinion based on conscience to be very dangerous. This does not give time to understand the motives and cultural aspects behind other people’s deeds. I find that I trust Hemingway (in spite of the fact that I do not share his love to bullfighting) because I can feel that he knew what he was writing about, and knew and respected both matador and a bull.
The judging attitude that is quite characteristic to many conscientious photographers makes me to recall the “progressor” series of novels by probably most famous and philosophical Russian science fiction writers – Arkadiy and Boris Strugatzki. It is interesting to read through these series to see the evolution of their ideology towards bringing the “good” into what seems to be retarded civilizations from total support to much more balanced and deep analysis of both sides of such relationships. Humanity is overloaded with the feeling of self guilt and trying to fix its own mistakes by helping out the “barbarian regimes” without their consent. At the same time it hates and fights the possible similar intrusion of the higher beings. What seems to be normal, noble to us may seem barbaric to somebody else.

]]> By: Jim Powers http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2009/02/raul-touzon-path-to-the-ring/comment-page-2/#comment-30052 Jim Powers Mon, 23 Feb 2009 12:57:36 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=1472#comment-30052 Well, Lisa, this is getting a little too philosophical for a thread on an essay on bullfighting, but I'll respond. As for Burn, my opinions about it are just that. It's Davids project, and he should certainly take it in any direction he chooses. He doesn't need anyones permission or approval to do that, certainly not mine. It's the part of your post where you talk about "so really why not just completely remove those static walls you have bashed your head against? Go with the flow... Its life Jim but not as we know it…" that interests me. The Internet is all that you describe. But it's open to debate whether it is everything you describe. Once all things are possible, many things lose meaning, becoming diluted in an infinite wash of content. Photography is an immediate victim of that dilutiion, with literally billions of photos awash in a sea without end. As for me, James Taylor kind of captures it in "Bartenders Blues." "But I need four walls around me to hold my life, to keep me from going astray." I'm been online and participating in forums since the early 1980's and Compuserve. My God, that's almost 30 years, isn't it! So, yeah, I guess I'm kind of curmudgeonly about this brave new online world and its promise for photography. Well, Lisa, this is getting a little too philosophical for a thread on an essay on bullfighting, but I’ll respond. As for Burn, my opinions about it are just that. It’s Davids project, and he should certainly take it in any direction he chooses. He doesn’t need anyones permission or approval to do that, certainly not mine.

It’s the part of your post where you talk about “so really why not just completely remove those static walls you have bashed your head against? Go with the flow…
Its life Jim but not as we know it…” that interests me.

The Internet is all that you describe. But it’s open to debate whether it is everything you describe. Once all things are possible, many things lose meaning, becoming diluted in an infinite wash of content. Photography is an immediate victim of that dilutiion, with literally billions of photos awash in a sea without end.

As for me, James Taylor kind of captures it in “Bartenders Blues.”

“But I need four walls around me to hold my life, to keep me from going astray.”

I’m been online and participating in forums since the early 1980′s and Compuserve. My God, that’s almost 30 years, isn’t it! So, yeah, I guess I’m kind of curmudgeonly about this brave new online world and its promise for photography.

]]> By: bobblack http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2009/02/raul-touzon-path-to-the-ring/comment-page-2/#comment-30051 bobblack Mon, 23 Feb 2009 11:50:48 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=1472#comment-30051 amigo: snark, as originally intended, is pretty damn funny...and you're brilliant...and THE snark, was pretty damn funny, whatever you see, but that's different from what constitutes irony or nonsense now....and while i think Denby's a bit uptight about all it, he does have some points which make it increasingly tiring to chat on the net.....but i'll take your bronx-bread paranoia over most of the stuff i read any damn yankee-day of the year ;)) amigo:

snark, as originally intended, is pretty damn funny…and you’re brilliant…and THE snark, was pretty damn funny, whatever you see, but that’s different from what constitutes irony or nonsense now….and while i think Denby’s a bit uptight about all it, he does have some points which make it increasingly tiring to chat on the net…..but i’ll take your bronx-bread paranoia over most of the stuff i read any damn yankee-day of the year ;))

]]> By: bobblack http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2009/02/raul-touzon-path-to-the-ring/comment-page-2/#comment-30050 bobblack Mon, 23 Feb 2009 11:47:20 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=1472#comment-30050 trashing an essay does not provide insight Kathleen. Thoughtfully discussing 'problems' (and i use this work with reserve) or choices another photographer has made is an entirely different thing. My point has always been that if people approach work only through the immediacy of their personal feelings/points-of-view, well, god damn, we dont have much for the stature of photography do we? It means that we can't even begin to appreciate or value work other than the work that clicks our personal knobs. I have never devalued the work of another nor have i dismissed another photographer/writer 'cause our opinions diverge. I wasn't pissed at R.Ant because of his/her criticism of the content (I have been critical here as well, and continue to remain critical of how people talk or write about the work, maybe you've missed that?) and i dont think he misspelled names but instead played with the names...he's being pretty ironic, and nothing wrong with that, though i found the 'content' of what he/she wrote not only labored but pretty empty, generally speaking. i guess you and i have completely different understanding of what 'diss' suggests....but, as Joe so eloquently suggested, Im a black pot.... trashing an essay does not provide insight Kathleen. Thoughtfully discussing ‘problems’ (and i use this work with reserve) or choices another photographer has made is an entirely different thing. My point has always been that if people approach work only through the immediacy of their personal feelings/points-of-view, well, god damn, we dont have much for the stature of photography do we? It means that we can’t even begin to appreciate or value work other than the work that clicks our personal knobs. I have never devalued the work of another nor have i dismissed another photographer/writer ’cause our opinions diverge. I wasn’t pissed at R.Ant because of his/her criticism of the content (I have been critical here as well, and continue to remain critical of how people talk or write about the work, maybe you’ve missed that?) and i dont think he misspelled names but instead played with the names…he’s being pretty ironic, and nothing wrong with that, though i found the ‘content’ of what he/she wrote not only labored but pretty empty, generally speaking.

i guess you and i have completely different understanding of what ‘diss’ suggests….but, as Joe so eloquently suggested, Im a black pot….

]]> By: VATSALA http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2009/02/raul-touzon-path-to-the-ring/comment-page-2/#comment-30048 VATSALA Mon, 23 Feb 2009 10:52:05 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=1472#comment-30048 I love how this project looks tied up so neatly. I love how this project looks tied up so neatly.

]]> By: lisa hogben http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2009/02/raul-touzon-path-to-the-ring/comment-page-2/#comment-30047 lisa hogben Mon, 23 Feb 2009 10:18:52 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=1472#comment-30047 Kathleen I for one would like to say that if anyone was silly enough to try and adopt my name, well then they deserve the dissing of all! Can you imagine the nicknames I got labelled with when I was a kid? 'Pigpen', 'Hogwash', 'Piglet' (though I don't mind that or 'Hoggers' and I was mainly known as 'Hoggy') Horrible though it was growing up with this moniker (and Dad Akaky I still blame you and those keilbasa merchants for separating me from my brother Bob Black and me ending up in a scientific experiment on the other side of the world from which I clearly derived my name- the scientific experiment I mean) I am somewhat proud of it and will always use it to defend my point of view in discussions and debate. Especially if I use swear words. One wonders why anyone would use the net if they are worried about search engines, its quite easy to trace where a user originates from so if anyone really wanted more than general statistics well I am sure they could be found more easily using other means. No not using your own identity on the internet is cowardice in my book. Unless of course its my Dad Akaky, but I know he has his reasons... Kathleen I for one would like to say that if anyone was silly enough to try and adopt my name, well then they deserve the dissing of all!

Can you imagine the nicknames I got labelled with when I was a kid?

‘Pigpen’, ‘Hogwash’, ‘Piglet’ (though I don’t mind that or ‘Hoggers’ and I was mainly known as ‘Hoggy’)

Horrible though it was growing up with this moniker (and Dad Akaky I still blame you and those keilbasa merchants for separating me from my brother Bob Black and me ending up in a scientific experiment on the other side of the world from which I clearly derived my name- the scientific experiment I mean) I am somewhat proud of it and will always use it to defend my point of view in discussions and debate. Especially if I use swear words.

One wonders why anyone would use the net if they are worried about search engines, its quite easy to trace where a user originates from so if anyone really wanted more than general statistics well I am sure they could be found more easily using other means.

No not using your own identity on the internet is cowardice in my book.

Unless of course its my Dad Akaky, but I know he has his reasons…

]]> By: lisa hogben http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2009/02/raul-touzon-path-to-the-ring/comment-page-2/#comment-30046 lisa hogben Mon, 23 Feb 2009 10:02:41 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=1472#comment-30046 Hi Jim, I hope that this does not make you feel beleaguered but I honestly can't cop your last comment. So why does every photo have to make a difference on a grand scale? Why can't a photo simply generate a personal response of pleasure for the viewer? And why does everything have to fall into a category of 'emerging' or 'established'? I have been around for a while and I consider I am only truly emerging into what I really do and say (visually) NOW -I still have a way to go before I really can do the book I want to... and I have worked editorially for too many years. Some things need nurture before they fully mature. I don't agree with all of the choices on BURN and certainly I have disagreed with some of the photographic practices of some of the photographers but what is really great about BURN (sorry but I actually have never favoured the name either) is that you can see potential everywhere. I mean I would never have seen Michael Brown, Panos, Amanda Lucier, Mustafa Abulaziz and many others without BURN and while I consider that some of the photographers are more developed than others you can see where some of them are heading and thats really exciting! Its the new era of interactive, crowd sourcing, connectivity and you have to develop your own filters for swimming through all thats out there and working out what is good for you, but the net is never going to be anything but an evolving work in progress, not one thing will ever dominate it and create the Elvis Presley phenomenons of the past. It can't- it simply is not designed that way. So while critique is useful, curmudgeonly about the state of the photography is really just an opinion as well so really why not just completely remove those static walls you have bashed your head against? Go with the flow... Its life Jim but not as we know it... (And yep I have waited a lifetime to use that one to make a point!) Hi Jim,

I hope that this does not make you feel beleaguered but I honestly can’t cop your last comment.

So why does every photo have to make a difference on a grand scale?

Why can’t a photo simply generate a personal response of pleasure for the viewer?

And why does everything have to fall into a category of ‘emerging’ or ‘established’?

I have been around for a while and I consider I am only truly emerging into what I really do and say (visually) NOW -I still have a way to go before I really can do the book I want to… and I have worked editorially for too many years.

Some things need nurture before they fully mature.

I don’t agree with all of the choices on BURN and certainly I have disagreed with some of the photographic practices of some of the photographers but what is really great about BURN (sorry but I actually have never favoured the name either) is that you can see potential everywhere.

I mean I would never have seen Michael Brown, Panos, Amanda Lucier, Mustafa Abulaziz and many others without BURN and while I consider that some of the photographers are more developed than others you can see where some of them are heading and thats really exciting!

Its the new era of interactive, crowd sourcing, connectivity and you have to develop your own filters for swimming through all thats out there and working out what is good for you, but the net is never going to be anything but an evolving work in progress, not one thing will ever dominate it and create the Elvis Presley phenomenons of the past.

It can’t- it simply is not designed that way.

So while critique is useful, curmudgeonly about the state of the photography is really just an opinion as well so really why not just completely remove those static walls you have bashed your head against? Go with the flow…

Its life Jim but not as we know it…

(And yep I have waited a lifetime to use that one to make a point!)

]]> By: lisa hogben http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2009/02/raul-touzon-path-to-the-ring/comment-page-2/#comment-30045 lisa hogben Mon, 23 Feb 2009 09:17:15 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=1472#comment-30045 David, 'Kiss my Ant' hehehehehehehehehe...... BTW, Viva the 'messy bits' David, ‘Kiss my Ant’

hehehehehehehehehe……

BTW, Viva the ‘messy bits’

]]> By: Joni Karanka http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2009/02/raul-touzon-path-to-the-ring/comment-page-1/#comment-30044 Joni Karanka Mon, 23 Feb 2009 08:56:41 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=1472#comment-30044 Reminds me the best (and strongest) bullfighting shot I've seen is this one by Cristobal Hara: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2378/2091734526_3fce4f5ebc_o.jpg Some of his stuff is published by Steidl. He somehow manages to have a pretty approachable style. Reminds me the best (and strongest) bullfighting shot I’ve seen is this one by Cristobal Hara:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2378/2091734526_3fce4f5ebc_o.jpg

Some of his stuff is published by Steidl. He somehow manages to have a pretty approachable style.

]]> By: lisa hogben http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2009/02/raul-touzon-path-to-the-ring/comment-page-1/#comment-30043 lisa hogben Mon, 23 Feb 2009 08:47:58 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=1472#comment-30043 John Gladdy, you are fast becoming my hero! John Gladdy, you are fast becoming my hero!

]]> By: Jim Powers http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2009/02/raul-touzon-path-to-the-ring/comment-page-1/#comment-30042 Jim Powers Mon, 23 Feb 2009 07:43:49 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=1472#comment-30042 panos, after many years of shooting tragedy and misery, I spend my time shooting mostly upbeat stuff of people in the community. Nachtwey has shown people the horrors of dozens of wars (and Nachtwey is in my top five list of favorite photographers), and it hasn't made a bit of difference. Since I'm at a point in my career when I choose what it is I want to shoot, I don't bang my head against nearly as many brick walls. A camera is an incredible window on the world, but not a very effective weapon against its evils. panos, after many years of shooting tragedy and misery, I spend my time shooting mostly upbeat stuff of people in the community. Nachtwey has shown people the horrors of dozens of wars (and Nachtwey is in my top five list of favorite photographers), and it hasn’t made a bit of difference. Since I’m at a point in my career when I choose what it is I want to shoot, I don’t bang my head against nearly as many brick walls. A camera is an incredible window on the world, but not a very effective weapon against its evils.

]]> By: Jim Powers http://www.burnmagazine.org/essays/2009/02/raul-touzon-path-to-the-ring/comment-page-1/#comment-30041 Jim Powers Mon, 23 Feb 2009 07:25:27 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=1472#comment-30041 David, I don't live in the city Tyler, Texas. I live in Tyler County, Texas. So, Bill Allen and I are about 140 miles from each other. David, I don’t live in the city Tyler, Texas. I live in Tyler County, Texas. So, Bill Allen and I are about 140 miles from each other.

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