Comments on: closing time… https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2010/03/closing-time/ burn is an online feature for emerging photographers worldwide. burn is curated by magnum photographer david alan harvey. Sat, 18 Jun 2016 10:53:03 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.2.4 By: panos skoulidas https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2010/03/closing-time/#comment-70125 Mon, 24 May 2010 09:53:34 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=6062#comment-70125 the reason i want to go to thailand is to find out why idealists are so easy to be manipulated by religious leaders and telecom moguls ! Is it them they follow? or do they fight for themselves? was Thaksin just taking advantage of the public outrage sentiment, or was he behind it?and if he was what was the percentage? did the Reds evolve? or did they just manage to lose their leaders so they have to stick longer with the London based mogul? was it a power game that been played on the peoples back ? or was it a genuine public outrage?
these are the questions..about human nature..that nobody seems to be caring to answer…or even examine…unfortunately what i get from foreigners living, working , shooting there so far ,
is a SOCCER game description..
Yellows vs Reds…the game minute by minute…
Yellows vs Reds!! who’s side are you on???? major bullshit!!!! oh i wish i could afford the tickets to go there..im so disappointed from whats coming out ..from the sources…u can learn more from Wikipedia than the journalists that actually live there and cover the events…unfortunately…:(

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By: panos skoulidas https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2010/03/closing-time/#comment-70123 Mon, 24 May 2010 09:33:01 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=6062#comment-70123 Panos: I am intrigued why you have investigated one person
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well, because it was obvious that the yellow guy was a bad guy…that was a given from day 1…we see it every day in the news…but, i was just hoping that the other (ex-red) guy was a better guy…i was so naive…but Thaksin is even more corrupted ..my hope was obviously unfounded..Let me repeat myself once again ..i hate to be emotionally manipulated..when we watch the news as a third eye (we) immediately side with the reds because they fight with slings and the government got snipers and bullets..So i needed to see who is behind the brave Reds..who is holding the strings…And to my surprise i discovered a scamback…it was shocking you know…

hoping to find someone like Gandhi or HHDL or Lord Byron or even CHE even ..
and all we find is a corrupted ex cia agent that only works and benefits mainly HIMSELF !!!???From a policeman to a mogul? what happened? since when thailand became the land of opportunity?ohh please!

ahhhhh…Jenny, now that sucks…, right?…And yes im so intrigued to go in Thailand..now more than ever before..and the “smiles” is not the reason why…neither the 10 year old prostitutes that Amnesty does nothing about it…but thats another thing :child prostitution and why NOBODY (including foreigners that live there too) does NOTHING about it?
Ahhh..it sounds more like:

“Land of the PAID Smiles”

to me…

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By: jenny lynn walker https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2010/03/closing-time/#comment-70119 Mon, 24 May 2010 05:59:10 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=6062#comment-70119 ahimsa = what not to love? = peace

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By: jenny lynn walker https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2010/03/closing-time/#comment-70118 Mon, 24 May 2010 05:51:29 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=6062#comment-70118 DAH: Would you be interested to see some images of this – of my work of the past 2 months? You told me you’re not doing hard news on Burn but these images are not in that category. I simply began recording what was happening in my local neighbourhood – up the street – and took it from there. The focus is on the people themselves – who these protestors are – and the daily goings on within the protest areas which were fascinating for many reasons. I also feel that people following events overseas may not have gleaned any real understanding of who protestors are and the variety of among the Red Shirts. I have come to opinions based on what I have witnessed but those opinions do not center on favouring any particular party over another. I just see people.

Herve: It is great to have your input on these discussions since you take such an interest in what is going on in Thailand. Thanks a lot! I think you would probably feel more strongly about what has happened here if you had actually witnessed it. You told me to take a break on Facebook but I would rather share what I have photographed over the past 2-plus months but if you would like to take a break yourself, feel free!

Panos: I am intrigued why you have investigated one person – one leader – in your research. And I’m wondering whether if/when you arrive to do a story in Bangkok you will be biased or do you intend to do more research first into the opposition and the history of politics here – if pre-assignment research is your approach?

ALL: I introduced the concept of Ahimsa on here after Gandhi was mentioned. When I think Gandhi, I think Ahimsa. And when I think Ahimsa, I think Gandhi and HH Dalai Lama. When I think Dalai Lama, I think what a travesty of injustice it is what has happened in Tibet. Hope that is okay. Just thinking out loud. : )

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By: michael webster https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2010/03/closing-time/#comment-70099 Mon, 24 May 2010 00:13:03 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=6062#comment-70099 why do i have the feeling that i still cant get the whole picture?

Because you can’t. But I think perhaps this image provides several important clues.

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By: panos skoulidas https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2010/03/closing-time/#comment-70097 Sun, 23 May 2010 23:49:05 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=6062#comment-70097 “When the former policeman turned telecom mogul ..”
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(no comment)

“The American-trained executive..”
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(no comment)

“Thaksin was the first prime minister to lead a government through a full four-year term since the country ended military rule in 1976—every other leader was either overthrown by coup, forced to resign, ..”
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(not impressed…Saddam Hussein lasted wayyy longer)

“Admittedly, Thaksin was no saint, and much of what his opponents said was true. His drug war in 2003 (in which he rashly vowed to eradicate drug trafficking within three months) killed thousands; ”
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(no shit! like we didnt know…that scamback killed more than 2000 people without a trial!)

“Ordinary people thought he cared about them,”
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(no comment)

http://www.newsweek.com/id/238161/page/1

This article simply confirms what we already know…and yes we have seen the severe violence , the DEAD,the killings…the burning of Bangkok etc..There are few very fearless PJs out there (Nick Nostitz, James N, and few more)but what we havent seen covered yet is the aftermath stories …why?
Is it too early? am i missing something? can anyone link me with what is going on now? the day after, that is? why do i have the feeling that i still cant get the whole picture? i guess the only way is to get there myself god damn it and i cant afford the tickets…

(Can govt/business owners/insurance companies etc seek damages from Thaksin? Mayb this was why R. Amsterdam was hired..
about 16 hours ago via TweetDeck

RT @kraipob: The difference was Taksin had self before country. PM Abhisit always has country before self.

http://twitter.com/tulsathit )

once again go figure…Thailand today…one billion different perspectives,one billion different opinions..
where does the “Truth” stands? What side? The ex mogul, serial killer? The todays ruthless yellow government? That perverted King that owns and operates brothels (with under aged kids) on the side?
AHHH the land of the Smiles..yeah right..Smiles my ass…Poor Thailand sounds more like the land of schizophrenia…

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By: a civilian-mass audience https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2010/03/closing-time/#comment-70090 Sun, 23 May 2010 18:44:58 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=6062#comment-70090 yeap, MR.HARVEY…I don’t usually show fingers…BUT
MR.VINK is responsible for opening the closing time…hmmm…

yeap, MR.VINK it’s all your fault…hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

I am out of here…
But we have to give credit…when credit is due…

PEACE

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By: Herve https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2010/03/closing-time/#comment-70084 Sun, 23 May 2010 17:21:28 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=6062#comment-70084 David, I was back in SF before it erupted again, and in any case, I wouldn’t be interested in risking my life just to shoot a set of tires burning. There were dozens of Pjs there, no need for another Joe Schmuk and his “pro-sumer” Canon DSLR…. :-)

I like what John Vink once stated, on the MAGNUM site I think. Can’t recall precisely, but it was about getting “there”, after the other photographers got home.

About Thai politics, I can’t care less. Neither on one side or the other, like most thais truly. I just love to talk about Thailand when the subject comes about…

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By: Herve https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2010/03/closing-time/#comment-70082 Sun, 23 May 2010 17:04:49 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=6062#comment-70082 Jenny, Newsweek, this is 2010, not 2001 (or2 or 3, or even 2006).
You seem to take all this personally, using arguments (Tibet and Dalai Lama) so irrelevant to thai politics just to make the same point.

We got it (your point), you know? :-))))

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By: jenny lynn walker https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2010/03/closing-time/#comment-70072 Sun, 23 May 2010 13:59:05 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=6062#comment-70072 DAH: Sorry about that – the discussion seemed to be on both dialogue pages. Herve is not here in Thailand and has not been in Bangkok during the Red Shirt protest but is currently putting together a story on the Northeast of Thailand for you/Burn he told me. I’m currently putting together a sequence focused on the people – the protestors – and the protest itself which began just up the street from where I’m staying and, was so captivating that I put my new project on the backburner. That project is centered on a park that is a little like the UN in as much as there are people from just about every country around the world there (or there were before the news of the problems in Bangkok spread) who are/were sharing everything from fire dancing to hulahula to capoeira to acrobatics.

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By: david alan harvey https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2010/03/closing-time/#comment-70066 Sun, 23 May 2010 10:01:03 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=6062#comment-70066 curious about two things…first, why are you guys over here under “closing time” dialogue, when our new dialogue post for discussion is ” of trees and dreams”? i guess it doesn’t really matter since the discussion is about Thailand etc anyway, but some Thai discussion now is under one dialogue post and some of it is under another…second, both Herve and Jenny are on location in Thailand and i have seen no pictures from either…maybe there is nothing to shoot except fire, injuries, riots , police, etc…this is probably the case…but since feelings are so strong on the issues, i would imagine there might be some way to explore…

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By: john gladdy https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2010/03/closing-time/#comment-70065 Sun, 23 May 2010 08:45:40 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=6062#comment-70065 Maybe try a little ‘karma Cola’.
should be a must read for anyone looking to ‘find themselves”.

PEACE

John

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By: jenny lynn walker https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2010/03/closing-time/#comment-70064 Sun, 23 May 2010 07:49:59 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=6062#comment-70064 Final comment on Ahimsa, cos I’m starving:

I was just wanting to look up a longer meaning of Ahimsa and so googled it and immediately up came an explanation from my former teacher (or those that followed in his footsteps). Very, very hard to practise this, especially for someone like me. Here’s the explanation:

http://www.dlshq.org/teachings/ahimsa.htm

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By: jenny lynn walker https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2010/03/closing-time/#comment-70063 Sun, 23 May 2010 07:23:55 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=6062#comment-70063 BTW: If photographers are only showing images of the clashes – the action moments – at the time when Red Shirts are reacting to 1) the military offensive on April 10 2) the death of Seh Daeng and 3) the military force sent in 24 hours after the government said the protest could continue (and NOT the 2 month long protest which was largely peaceful), NO WONDER cameras are being destroyed on ‘the front line’. The front line?!! Really this is way over the top terminology when the violence has been confined to small pockets of the city.

By the way, I have just logged in here and been off here for a couple of days, have you read the reports saying that 2 foreigners are believe to be involved or behind the arson attacks on Central World? This may sound far-fetched but having met some of the ‘farangs’ in Bangkok, I do believe it.

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By: jenny lynn walker https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2010/03/closing-time/#comment-70062 Sun, 23 May 2010 07:13:59 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=6062#comment-70062 NB Please remember that HH Dalai Lama is still in exile after 50 years. He is truly practising Ahimsa and sharing it with the world which is clearly helping. But, his culture is dying and large numbers of his people are in exile and at home in Tibet, are now outnumbered by Chinese migrants under the PRC’s ‘colonization’ programme.

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By: jenny lynn walker https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2010/03/closing-time/#comment-70061 Sun, 23 May 2010 07:10:40 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=6062#comment-70061 But of course, Thanksin is not Gandhi. Gandhi’s whole way of operating was in line with Ahimsa – non-violence – but then, his words did ignite the populace and what they did was not always non-violent…

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By: jenny lynn walker https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2010/03/closing-time/#comment-70060 Sun, 23 May 2010 07:06:10 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=6062#comment-70060 Happy to read one or two of the comments which also help to show how the Red Shirt movement really is a ‘Robin Hood’ effort to help reduce inequalty in Thailand which incidentally is a little in the vein of Gandhi, Herve, now you mention it. ; )

http://www.newsweek.com/id/238161/page/1

http://www.newsweek.com/id/238161/page/2

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By: jenny lynn walker https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2010/03/closing-time/#comment-70058 Sun, 23 May 2010 06:43:02 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=6062#comment-70058 HERVE/PANOS/ALL: Hope you got to read this piece in Newsweek! At least someone’s got it right!!!

“Former Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra was thought to be a populist demagogue. Actually, he was the high-water mark for Thai democracy.”

http://www.newsweek.com/id/238161/page/1

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By: panos skoulidas https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2010/03/closing-time/#comment-69146 Mon, 17 May 2010 13:43:55 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=6062#comment-69146 Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock. –

Sigmund Freud

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By: Herve https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2010/03/closing-time/#comment-69143 Mon, 17 May 2010 13:00:56 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=6062#comment-69143 Thanks Eva, indeed. On his blog, May 1st, interesting insightful comments. Just one excerpt:

“Thaksin is closer to Berlusconi then to Lenin (1); he never discussed the economical system of the country, being one of the richest tycoon on earth: he merely gave some economical benefits to the large countryside population to obtain a solid electoral base, to be transformed into power. The subsequent turmoil was a power struggle among rich and powerful, not a popular revolt: a confrontation deeply rooted into tradition and religion more then in ideology and politics”.

(1) my note: actually Thaksin has compared himself to Gandhi and Mandela, though these 2 great men never became fugitive, were not tycoons, never became citizens of other countries to escape their own’s jurisdiction, and inspired the world over. Etc….

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