Comments on: avalon ….. https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2009/09/avalon/ burn is an online feature for emerging photographers worldwide. burn is curated by magnum photographer david alan harvey. Sat, 18 Jun 2016 10:44:08 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.2.4 By: anna boyiazis https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2009/09/avalon/#comment-52483 Thu, 08 Oct 2009 16:41:16 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=4079#comment-52483 YOUNG TOM

i flew in last night as the sun was setting. loved all the trees below (which reminded me of the spongy kind that adorn architectural models). have a piece in a show that opens tonight at the photography center northwest. am flying back to california 7.35 friday night.

email me.

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By: kathleen fonseca https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2009/09/avalon/#comment-52417 Thu, 08 Oct 2009 05:19:10 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=4079#comment-52417 Gordon

I have no idea if a portrait tells the truth. And since studio portraiture is not my genre, i doubt i will spend a lot of time thinking about it. You do because it’s what you have devoted your life to and you are passionate on the subject. Which is why i deferred to your experience as being a better judge of the Blue Mirror project.

Of all the times when a mask would be most firmly in place, it would seem to be when the subject is confronting a camera lens. But masks are in place pretty much all the time. Not many people are out there wearing their hearts and souls on their faces unless they’re mentally ill or drunk. However, if a shadow IS going to pass across someone’s poised countenance it is more likely to happen far from a camera’s intrusive presence. And if that shadow occurs as i happen by with my camera and it is accompanied by expressive body language and gestures, well, that for me is practically a religious experience. Is it the truth? Perhaps no more than your portraits are the truth. It just happens to interest me more than my portraits because of its spontaneity, its failure to censor itself into a socially acceptable public demeanor. Nowwww…if that moment were to occur in a studio or other controlled situation when all the technicalities can be comfortably controlled, well then, religious couldn’t possibly describe my elation. Which was why i particularly liked the photo in Pat’s project of the little African American kid. And why i like Juergen Teller also. Different styles but same interest.

Ok, more than enough on this subject..by the way, i agree with your statement about searching out our own humanity when we shoot people but i don’t think it’s necessarily restricted to formal portraiture. Dunno..very tired tonight. Can’t think anymore.

best
Kathleen

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By: Gordon L https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2009/09/avalon/#comment-52410 Thu, 08 Oct 2009 03:12:07 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=4079#comment-52410 Andrea

I love Avedons quote. Avedon is one of my heroes, though I admit I had not read the quote even though I own a copy of American West.

I love portraits. It is a way of searching out ones own humanity in the faces of others.

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By: emcd https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2009/09/avalon/#comment-52409 Thu, 08 Oct 2009 02:40:18 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=4079#comment-52409 Jason, the only reason you got any is because you were using a phone :) and because I was so moved by the photography in the most recent Ken Burns series on the national parks that I let it slide for the sake of history…smiling

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By: Jason_Houge https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2009/09/avalon/#comment-52403 Thu, 08 Oct 2009 00:40:32 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=4079#comment-52403 Some workshop fun…
http://www.iphonephotojournalist.org/
Erica is especially hard to shoot looking natural! Her perifferal vision is amazing!

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By: AndreaC https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2009/09/avalon/#comment-52399 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 23:48:14 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=4079#comment-52399 Lassal

Oh yes I know, but thanks for thinking of me. btw thank you so much for your links and info about Martin Parr. I am definitely one who needed to catch up and he has some interesting things to say. I can’t wait to read the transcript of tomorrow nights Q&A.

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By: Lassal https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2009/09/avalon/#comment-52395 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 23:34:08 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=4079#comment-52395 AndreaC
I know you are posting a direct answer to a comment here, and that is probably where it should go best, but just in case you have not noticed: there is a new post from DAH up on Dialogue …
:-))

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By: AndreaC https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2009/09/avalon/#comment-52387 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 22:58:53 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=4079#comment-52387 Gordon

I agree with you entirely about your thoughts on truth in a portrait. So I was surprised to read in the obituary on the much-admired (myself included) notion that Penn’s portraits of the “aborigines” were searching after his subjects “true natures”. I respect his work no less for that. It only highlights how times have changed and along with it thoughts on such things as truth and what photography can or can’t do.

I think there’s a great deal more truth, (pardon the pun) in Avedon’s comment that a portrait can be very accurate…

“A portrait is not a likeness. The moment an emotion or fact is transformed into a photograph it is no longer a fact but an opinion …. All photographs are accurate. None of them is the truth.” – Richard Avedon, In the American West: Photographs, 1979-1984 from photoquotes.com

This type of thinking gave rise to wonderful video portraits (can’t recall who by but I think several artists have done it) where the subject is merely looking steadily, as steadily as possible, for several minutes into the lens. We get the picture that in portraiture there is only surface, accuracy, and the truth is only surface and accuracy, nothing deeper.

Expressions, beautiful or quirky are momentary. Unless you know the person well, there is no way of knowing how characteristic such expressions are. Do we take the photographer on faith? Most of the time I would say not. Best as Avedon does, assume the photographer is expressing herself, an opinion, or that the picture expresses the moment of the exchange that goes on between the photographer and subject.

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By: PeteStreet https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2009/09/avalon/#comment-52381 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 22:21:57 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=4079#comment-52381 Penn and Avedon were my idols and now they are both gone. It was Penn’s book, Worlds in A Small Room, that gave me the inspiration to start as a photographer. For me his portraits from around the world have never been bettered by anyone since. His platinum prints were a joy to behold when seen in real life. He was a total original and a truly dedicated photographer. Every subject that he shot was photographed with such honesty and passion.

A sad day for me……

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By: Gordon L https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2009/09/avalon/#comment-52380 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 21:53:20 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=4079#comment-52380 John G

While it is true that a persons eyes can betray their emotional state, I’m not sure that anyones emotional state at any given moment constitutes the “TRUTH” of who they really are. I’ve always been suspicious about the whole “windows to the soul” thing.
In any case, my point was that there is no single truth about who we really are. Claims of portraits “capturing the soul” or the “true essence” of a person are certainly overblown hyperbole.

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By: Gordon L https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2009/09/avalon/#comment-52378 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 21:36:00 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=4079#comment-52378 Should have read He was absolutely an original.

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By: Gordon L https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2009/09/avalon/#comment-52375 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 21:18:50 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=4079#comment-52375 Sidney

Penns fashion work was brilliant and original, as was his huge body of personal work which was quite eclectic. Worlds in a small room is one of my all time favourite books. He was absolutely and original.

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By: marcin luczkowski https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2009/09/avalon/#comment-52372 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 21:06:09 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=4079#comment-52372 Hi all,

Still no time for writing here. lately I missed a lot of great discussions here and I will miss chat with mr. Parr probably. But I am so excited and honored that my photo will hang with many of yours on one exhibition. Thank you for that David.
And I would like to thank to generous sponsor of ours prints.
Of course I wish be on the opening but I can’t be with you.
Have a great time.
Take a lot pictures please :)

peace and love for all

I’ll be back (as soon as possible)

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By: john gladdy https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2009/09/avalon/#comment-52371 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 20:52:57 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=4079#comment-52371 “””What really is the “TRUTH” in a portrait?”””…..The eyes.

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By: Sidney Atkins https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2009/09/avalon/#comment-52370 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 20:36:23 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=4079#comment-52370 Irving Penn has died. His style of highly controlled fashion photography may not have appealed to many of the BURN audience’s photojournalist types, but he was undeniably one of the greats in American photography who created a very recognizable body of work that has had tremendous impact. NY Times/AP obit is here:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/10/07/us/AP-US-Obit-Irving-Penn.html

R.I.P.

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By: Gordon L https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2009/09/avalon/#comment-52369 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 19:58:58 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=4079#comment-52369 Kat

Photographing people without their masks.

Is it ever really possible to capture anyones true self, sans mask? Is a big smile a big mask? or a big frown? That we depend on such minute nuances to judge the expressions of other people is a fascinating subject on its own. Many classically autistic people for example are un-able to read facial expression or tone of voice.

The things that make up who a person is covers a huge spectrum. When we make a portrait, either deliberatly or unconciously, we choose the piece of the spectrum we want the portrait to suggest, and suggest is all we can do.

When I create a family portrait for example, I want to suggest certain things. Harmony, intimacy, mutual love and respect. The spectrum of who the family is certainly contains much more, but no-one has ever asked me to do a family portrait that suggests how much the kids fight, or the fact that one spouse is cheating on the other. At the core of their relationship, there is the ideal of harmony, intimacy and mutual respect that exists within all families. The portrait on their wall will help remind them of that.

If you are doing a portrait for a business magazine, likely you try to suggest whatever the thrust of the article suggests. If you are doing it for a newspaper, you might suggest any number of things, again depending on your point of view and what you are trying to say about the subject. Right wing publications will portray pres. Obama differently than left leaning one.

What really is the “TRUTH” in a portrait?

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By: david bowen https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2009/09/avalon/#comment-52368 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 19:58:02 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=4079#comment-52368 sounds like an americanalizationalism to me

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By: kathleen fonseca https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2009/09/avalon/#comment-52367 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 19:57:27 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=4079#comment-52367 DAH

boo-hoo! hope i can swing it tomorrow but will be a little late..

k-

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By: tom hyde https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2009/09/avalon/#comment-52366 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 19:08:39 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=4079#comment-52366 hmmm, I see Martin Parr is described as a “Mischievous Ironist” in the title of a Lens Culture piece. Is that a word …

AKAKY, over to you …

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By: tom hyde https://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2009/09/avalon/#comment-52365 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 18:58:11 +0000 http://www.burnmagazine.org/?p=4079#comment-52365 ANNA B!

Almost missed that post …
Yes of course, there are always tumbleweeds to chase anywhere, anytime :))
I’m a couple hours from Seattle, how long you will be in the Emerald City?

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