nothing happens until it happens , but things are happening…cracking, buzzing, and yes burning bright…we will launch soonest a working model of BURN magazine (or journal or??)….the house will not be finished…we still need to get in the wiring and plumbing and it will be a long time before all the furniture is chosen and the interior is decorated and we all feel "at home"…but, at least you will have a sense of it….and you will have a "place at the table"….
i must right now thank Anton Kusters for his tireless efforts working on design and function…the boy flew all the way from Brussels to spend four days here sleeping on my floor…..in the next sleeping bag was Tom Hyde and tossing and turning on the sofa was Chris Bickford…my place looked like a homeless shelter rather than a home for a wellspring of ideas…reminiscent of my grad school days or some version of a camping out road trip….
all i can say is that i was totally humbled by all of the hard work from Tom Hyde(flew from Seattle), Eric Espinosa (flew from Cincinnati), Erica McDonald, Andrew Sullivan, David McGowan, and Andrew Owen from Look3..and i will never forget Kelly Lynn James who gets total credit for suggesting BURN as a title…many thanks to all of you who wrote, phoned in, and sent constructive emails..but, it ain't over yet….
today and tomorrow i must attend our Magnum board meeting…our winter interim gathering of the tribe…who would have ever thought i would be on any "board", but well life has its twists…i might be able to get an interesting post out of it , but in the meantime all of you will have time to chew on this…..
oh yes, if you are in New York, we have our annual Magnum book signing at Aperture tonight…please join us…
back soonest…..
It really looks good, yes!!
Burning bright!
Ana
Comments
BURNers… and ALL
back home… missing you all already… i want to come back…
ALL
thanks a million for all the comments and the great ideas and offers to help and all… will get a lot of stuff done “soonest”, and if any help needed, i will post immediately here…. you guys are all great, really…
cheers,
BURNton
:)
Posted by: anton | December 15, 2008 at 07:48 AM
SOMEGUY….
you are quite the great thinker…and i now understand a bit better your words “something to lose” from this most recent missive…
yes, yes i see it…and as the world of traditional print is crumbling before our very eyes and technology is allowing us so much freedom combining video and stills and voice over and original music etc etc, we would indeed “lose” something if we did not take advantage of the organic nature of what is growing in this garden….
our worst case scenario here is this…by launching soonest a “model” we will have a better version of what we have now…even those of us who have seen some stories in development here , will actually be “surprised” when they are all up in nice style….even if we do not add one single new person to our forum, we will have a better looking “campus” to further our educational imperative…
please please join us as “yourself” with words of wisdom, some good old fashioned still photography, or a movie you make just for us right here…whatever mistakes i have made here, or am about to make, and then fix and then start again , will always be taken as part of my own “education process”….your input, either critical or supportive, will be taken in the very context you have set up for yourself…valued for its intelligence…
and , of course, i will just have to be me as well…going on my gut instincts, sensing the “right moment”, celebrating the talent of others….
i do enjoy the camaraderie of small campfire or clubhouse…hence Magnum instead of Getty…i am unlikely to change much on that score…however, in this “new age of electronic reason” the parameters of “clubhouse” have already expanded exponentially and have brought me the likes of Audrey and Glenn and Marcin and Rafal and Patricia and Bob and Panos and Erica and Anton and Tom and Lassal and YOU…all folks i have “met” right here…
so, let’s keep the window open…fresh air circulating breathes life into a room….and at the same time, please give me a chance to do what i think i can do….the buzz of shared thought has already taken hold…still, and i think you may agree, there has to be a singular vision for how the gallery is lit..how the show is hung…someone who takes in the palette of ideas and then brushes them to canvas….
join me in New York when you have time…i think you must know by now, my door is open…or, if i am your territory, there is always time for coffee or whatever….
many thanks for the log you have thrown on the campfire…
cheers, david
Posted by: david alan harvey | December 15, 2008 at 07:56 AM
Prints sound like a good idea to raise some money.
How about having a BURN show to raise money?
Find a venue in NYC who supports the cause and will offer the space for free or next to nothing.
Those readers and contributors of Road Trips who want to see BURN become a reality and success can donate a limited edition collectors print for the show. All proceeds from the first event would go to getting BURN off the ground.
DAH could curate and select the images from our work, or it could be a group effort or have a guest curator.
If it works it could become an annual event, or take place 3-4 times a year in different cities with the profits from the prints being split 50-50 between BURN and the photographer.
Cheers,
Justin
Posted by: Justin Partyka | December 15, 2008 at 08:00 AM
Congrats on the productivity of you kibbutz-goers! I’m glad you had a good time and seeing motion from this is very exciting.
I just want to say that it won’t just be Panos who buys a burn bandanna…
Limited edition prints is a good idea. I’d buy affordable prints for my wall!
What is the Burn model right now? What is the next step?
I like the idea of “work in progress” and seperate “final stories” so something updates with interesting teasers/ideas and the audience is brought into the production of the final essay. Education and entertainment. I love photos but I love the stories behind the photos too!
Posted by: Neil | December 15, 2008 at 08:17 AM
NEIL..
there will be a significant “behind the scenes” element to each feature story…i think this will be one of the most popular aspects to the site…
cheers, david
This project is awesome. Just reading the blog the last few weeks has got my fire ‘burning’ for the Burn project. How can I help? How can I get involved?
someguy..
there is your invite mate..
all
secret is that he’s been on the magnum blog of late, trying to get the community feel going over there.. and i’ve seen his work through emails and it’s worth seeing..
so..
someguy.. far be it from me to ‘blow your cover’..
come on, now..
:o)
regarding prints – how about if we all post 2 possible photos somewhere, (a new thread?), and one can be chosen from each..
then we can all agree a standard size, boarder and the like.. sign them and post them to new york..
they could then be in and ready when the site goes live.
also.. david.. how about mike setting up a paypal account for donations from readers here..? just to get the ball rolling with moula..
have fun at the board meeting.. black tie and shiney shoes, i’m sure
:o)
C’est trop beau ! I love !!
Merci Anton, Eric, David, Chris, Erica, Andrew, Tom, All and DAVID !
i really love what you guys are doing. i think online magazines is the future and your concept and design will set a standard.
i’d love to help any way i can.
BuRNTON and ALL – fantastic job and such commitment!!!
THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
ERIC – great photos. thank you for sharing
DAH – we will talk later about what LOOK3 may be able to do.
DAH
i agree with you about advertising in principle and think it is best avoided..
my thoughts were more for a ‘supported by XXX’ note and small icon, be it nikon, canon, leica, .. very small.. bottom corner style.. a simple link which could add weight rather than confuse the style.. and could produce a yearly lump sum.
it’s going to be fantastic if the end result could become a commissioning agent in it’s own right.. whether that works through a repro fee system or advance with expenses.. will be just great.. and if that is added to photographers own efforts, (getting support indipendantly0 then some quite extraordinary work could result..
my lover and son are back on wednesday, so i may disappear into the ether again after that.. will stick around until then.
tor capa laughs now, you know.
magic.
DAVID:
FIRSTLY, let me say your voice is like HOT (burn? ;)) )….like Marilyn to Mr. President, only with the teeth of time and pipes to fill that baby with love-smoke :))))…even put a smile on D too :))))…M loved it too (she left u a message yesterday) :)))))…thanks brother, big lovely song :)))))))))))
DAVID, ANTON, TOM, CHRIS, ERIC+(A), MIKE, ANDREW ALL THE REST… all the rest of y’all bad boys and bad girls:
have been away from computer, with family…just a simple word; THANKS…
looks great, so many ideas to read through…no time now, on deadline (dah deadline), will leave some words later today…site looks bon bon bon!!!….
Y’ALL ROCK…
word…
ok, gotta split to teach…
b baby b :_))
b
Just as a matter of satisfying my curiosity, I hied me hence down to my local public library to take a look at Ulrich’s Periodical Directory. There are three periodicals using the word burn in their mastheads. First is Burn, which is a fitness magazine for men ages 18-28, the second is Burn Collector, a perzine published in North Carolina by a Chicago based writer and musician, and the third is Burn Support News, a newsletter for burn survivors, their families, and medical professionals dealing with burn injuries. As none of these periodicals deal with photography in any way, I dont think there should be a problem with the title.
Okay, that was my weekly five minutes of seriousness. Now I am going off to my corner to think up some fart jokes.
How about Burn Photo Agency?
AKAKY – you crack me up!!
Just wanted to say thank you because this is going to be a wonderful place !
Anton, it looks great !!
If I can help by any mean… I could translate some parts into French, for instance…
Didn’t have time to read all comments, as usual, but thank you !
BURN has been on my mind a lot lately, i just haven’t had time to post anything here. THANK YOU to the kibbutz crew for all of your bright minds and hard work.
i love the idea of having a ‘works in progress’ and ‘final projection’ sections to the magazine.. with words of help and constructive criticism from our fellow brothers and sisters in this community, and future friends that we don’t even know yet.
print sales to fund the machine.. the machine being the magazine and the photographers… one cannot survive without the other. by the way, i’ve been shooting with the same foam trucker’s cap for years now, i’d love to sport a ‘burn’ cap. :)
okay, just got a phone call and i gotta jet. much love to you all… please call if you want to talk.. +1-512-569-0432.
best,
lance
Damn you guys been working fast!! I’m still catching up and looking over the past THREE posts all in the space of the last week! This is very exciting!!
Back in Ohio now (not so exciting) nice to see friends though. In the new year we move to Denver. Anybody on here in the Denver area? Would love to catch up!
Going to look back over the last posts and (hopefully) ;) come back with some constructive comments. You obviously have it all under control though!
You guys really busted some ass! Many CONGRATULATIONS and grateful THANKS to you all. Amazing!
(Special cheeky British wink to Tom Hyde and Anton whom I have had the pleasure of meeting (and I hope will many times again).
Cheers,
James
I posted on last thread but will repost here:
A little late here to this thread:
Print sales are ONE way to raise funds but certainly shouldn’t be seen as a primary one. Print sales can be fickle, so it’s best to see them as a bonus when and if they do happen. Plus someone has to stay on top of packing and shipping etc, lost or damaged prints, unhappy customers (believe me it does happen), etc etc. Something to think about.
I’m not as opposed to advertising as some might be. If (and if it’s a big if) it can contained and it actually enhances vs distracts from the site. By that I mean choosing the types of advertising and it’s layout etc. Of course this may be more work and hassle than it’s worth. Just a thought.
Sponsorship is good, and can be folded into the type of advertising I mentioned above. In other words, say Leica gave some $ for sponsorship and maybe featured an image by one of the contributors in an ad for the M8 taken by that contributor with an M8. Maybe the prints for sale are made with an Epson, or HP.
Subscription is another way to go, but imo has to be kept low (say no more than $20 per year).
Also, the idea of paying contributing photographers is a nice idea, but may not be a realistic one at least for the near future, unless one wants to go with heavy advertisers. Photographers should see this as a chance for exposure for projects that might not get it otherwise, therefore giving them the opportunity to sell prints, add to their portfolio, etc. This is different than the news stand mag that says “we have no budget” and yet are featuring huge vodka ads and so on (and usually blowing all of their photo budget on the fashion spread). Of course if the sponsorship idea can fly then the photographers wh are getting sponsored will of course receive some $. But I don’t think anyone should come into this thinking of it as a way to make some $.
Charles
ALL
want to remind you all about TROLLEY BOOKS OFFER TO CONTRIBUTORS HERE>
http://www.trolleybooks.com/
http://www.trolleybooks.com/
http://www.trolleybooks.com/
i have just bought a bunch of books.. took no time at all.. hannah is amazingly courteous, sharp and easy to deal with and the DISCOUNT>>> well.. it’s left me a happy man, even after postage…
“Hannah Watson”
“Hannah Watson”
“Hannah Watson”
oop’s.. no idea why hannah’s email did not appear next to her name..
so here it is..
hannah@trolleybooks.com
hannah@trolleybooks.com
hannah@trolleybooks.com
I really like the logo. Great work Anton!
I think I’m with Charles here. One or two ads might not be too bad. Ads all over the site and google adsense – no way.. Of course it must be a brand that can go well with the site.. But this is David’s call, just my opinion..
I don’t like the idea of print sales as funding for the site. If someone wants to buy a print from a contributor it might be very well needed money for the photographer. I guess maybe burn could get a percentage of the print sale, but I don’t like the idea..
Are people getting their hopes up a bit too high? burn will not solve the worlds problems.. Yeah, it will give some very gifted photographers some exposure, but become their gallerist and agency.. Don’t think so..
Cheers
and i do agree with charles about commissioning fees, at least initially.
i think a folio show on burn could be presented as an award of achievement in itself.. at least to begin with.. and perhaps a token repro fee..?
it’s not going to be a source of great income to photographers already working the various systems and although well intended it might just put too much pressure on the initial stages..
what i’ll be shooting this year could certainly be used without charge, and infact it would be used by me as a mechanism for getting paying clients interested in buying the work.. if i were lucky enough to feature
*disclaimer… david.. i know i have to get the book down, am working very hard on the book edit for decade and more.. but i cannot resist setting up stories for this year as well.. it’s easy for me and i need to shoot more for the book anyway*
love trolley books too. i will be ordering a few books this week – the discount is great!
off to meet lance. bought one of his prints while i was here in austin and need to go buy a tube to bring it back to dc!!
Very Nice Idea!
OH YES. YES. YES.
As an innocent bystander i’m so happy to see this collaboration come to fruition and hope to be a part of it sometime.
respect and admiration to you, david, and the others i don’t know, except andrew….what a leader you are mystical, magical.
love, anne
Burn baby, burn!
gina.. oh man..
i would love to buy a print from ANTON, BOB, ERICA, TOM, GLENN, ERIC, more.. more.. more..
if i could find a decent lab in stavanger i would offer print swaps..
… I resisted saying this in the previous
“Venice post”…
In that photo with the girl drinking that
beer… you can see me, or my BLACK
BANDANA… I’m right under her right
arm ( actually I’m framed within her arm and
her body )… I was shooting her friend
next to her doing something “crazy”..
Soon I will post “my point of view” of
that particular night…
& yes AUDREY, GINA, all..
Please , please.. a Black “BURN”
bandana for me and of course for the
NEIL..
NEIL , what kinda color you prefer yours..?
I know you like red!!!!;-)))))))
ALL,
back in the rainy LA, since last night..
A very beautiful soul provided me with
a comfy couch somewhere in PLAYA DEL REY..
5 minutes away from VENICE…
can’t get any better than that…
Love you ALL…
& David B.. Thank you.. back to our
friendship now…
Ok , enough of me ..
Time to expose the “Rainy”.. “moody”
side of Venice now..
Off I go….
Peace
… sorry, I’m not just “panos”, yet..
I’m still “panos skoulidas”..
Laughing…
How arrogant would that be…!
Ok..
Driving
peace
I’d certainly be happy to donate prints for the collective burn … could even have the official “Burn Posters” series which would be more cost effective to both produce and for people to purchase … perhaps it could raise a little.
ERIC … will be making you a print after the holidays for our exchange :))))
DAH … I know I owe you a print as well … it is here and framed, and didn’t want to admit I forgot it on the mad 2 a.m. dash to the airport :))) Will send soonest.
BOWEN … you’ve been a good friend … I want the bloke with the pint :)))
tom
tom..
get this.. i have been trying to find a decent lab in stavanger for just that print.. for too long..
his name is brendon..
derry, in the north of ireland, is one of the few cities where i seem to also be friends with the characters in the snaps. beautiful place.. back this year for the 7th or 8th time.. dancing in the bogside is a special privilege for an english-man..
it’s the photo harvey noticed that led to that friendship early 2007.. and i have the neg cleaned and ready to go.. just live in such a small two bit town that there is no where to get an exhibition print.. even tried to find a colour darkroom to print myself without joy.
going to get an edition of 5 done in london when i go there next week..
:o)
To clarify …I was thinking of “Burn Posters” from the collective family here … turning the work of posters to Burn/Road Trips into actual posters … folks could donate an image for the collective burn (good) which in turn could be turned into a poster and given to people who donate to Burn magazine at a given amount, or prints at a higher amount … you know, the NPR, PBS fundraising model except you get cool art instead of a video set, etc … the Google checkout model is very simple.
I think this is a little different concept than what has already been discussed but fits into the Obama-style fundraising style discussed previously.
Just thinking out loud :))
tom
David B., funny, didn’t know the whole history with that shot, good to know i have good taste :))) … i believe there really are some good online print outfits that ship worldwide :))
tom
good stuff.
It’d be nice to see a section/column of Burn named – Apt. 475
The place is a known quantity.
trouble is i need a larger file scan.. it was shot in 2005 and the scan i had done on short deadline for dj magazine is simply not large enough to get the size i need.
funny..
on the road i took so many photos.. so many discarded because they were not to the magazines tastes, and so i deleted the scans.. which means i am finding some really special snaps only in negative form, including the beer one, which have never been published, exhibited or shown in any form.
i exhibited the work from n. ireland this year in derry and it was the first time anyone has seen them all.
in derry i found love.. on all levels.. and it is one of the places closest to my heart.. always will be.
do you know, tom, i still look at your archive more than regularly.. you have such patience in waiting for a shot and a real talent for finding the spot from where that shot is going to appear… is that how it works for you?
beate is understanding now how great photos happen.. and thinks it is cheating in a way.. as she thought we snappers walked constantly looking for a photo, when the reality is much more about finding an interesting place and then waiting for the photo to happen right before our opened eyes.
i call it planning and forethought to minimize the random elements, and she calls it cheating :o)
just bought her a g9 to snap daily life with..
i love this.
http://hydeimages.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/feet.jpg
elephants fascinate me..
.. and posters is a great idea.
obama inspires..
the fact is that whether we are all earning from photography or not we are all producing fantastic products.. objects.. grabbed from the thin air around us, and so lets sell photos.
after all, that’s what we do, no? simple.
make photos and sell them.
commission, donation.. whatever.. it’s going to sell because it’s worth buying, for a collector.
to, (again), quote from ‘waking life’;
“The trick is to combine your waking rational abilities with the infinite possibilities of your dreams. Because, if you can do that, you can do anything.”
One of the tricks to selling anything is getting the people who actually have money to see the work. No matter whether it be an ongoing sale or a one time fundraiser. So best to start thinking about that (ie moving beyond our “family” here, many of whom can’t even afford a place to live).
Anyway, if a NYC fundraiser print sale for BURN operating costs can be organized that can get real collectors to it (ie none of us should be letting go prints worth $1000 for $100), a Cobain print is on it’s way.
Charles
Oh, and I’ll throw in some signed books too!
CP
tim … great minds … alternative title, The Kibbutz …
and I’ve seriously thought about all the incredible photographers and artists who have visited, or live at 475 Kent. There must be incredible work already out there, none of it by itself a complete body of work but collectively …
I would love, love to contribute, organize, curate (or preferably work with DAH to curate), an entire project centered around the now legendary and historic 475 Kent … book, sound, multimedia, posters, etc. which could roll into the collective burn … a nonprofit venture benefitting the collective that has grown around the building, DAH, this forum and of course, BURN. I am hot on this … truly an inspiring visit to NYC, although I had some inkling of this before I visited for the first time. In these hard times, the community can support itself to a large degree I think if we all pitch in and work together for the common good, as we are already doing. Okay, no Kumbaya, I’m more realistic than that, but the collaborative mold and foundation have been laid by DAH and folks seem willing … small efforts by many can lead to a larger collective success … essentially, BURN and spinoffs to support it. Frankly, I like the idea of a Foundation (The Collective Burn Foundation or whatever) in the long term to umbrella all these ideas … it’s been done well before, even in newspapers. Perhaps this is too big, too fast but I tend to think this way and then stage it back from there. Seems we are already on that path. The first steps have been taken.
anyway … as you were saying …
http://www.hydeimages.com/475/index.html
tom
charles.. you get 1000usd for a cobain print?
jeez.. i need to dig out some of my artist photos and EARN.
cooking…
“do you know, tom, i still look at your archive more than regularly.. you have such patience in waiting for a shot and a real talent for finding the spot from where that shot is going to appear… is that how it works for you?”
Yeah, pretty much, I’ve figured that out … with David’s help … and I slowly get better, still bringing it all together, vision and technique. BTW, I hate looking at my archive, want to tear it all down :))
tom
CHARLES,
Yes, if these fundraising print sale events happen, the work must not be devalued – the collectors with the money (if there are still any out there!) must be the people who come.
I was not even thinking that the photographers on here would be buying the work.
Justin
TOM,
That pic of the hulahop is nice but…. David’s portrait is just amazing!!!
TOM,
Exactly.. got the Apt # mixed .. dyslexia is a drag..
Note to self: more Coffee less half n half
Ouaaahhh!!!
So much seems to have happened since I last posted on this blog … sounds great … can’t wait Xmas break to catch up with what I’ve missed … can’t wait to print your comments, read it all in one go (or two), discover new pictures, new photographers … just can’t wait … it feels like when I am back from vacation waiting for my slides to be developed … love it … tchao. romain
don’t know if panos posted this “burn” reference…but it fits, too.
“The only people for me are the mad ones,
the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but BURN, BURN, BURN
like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”
- Jack Kerouac
ANA, thanks :))) … perhaps a rare moment in the midst of the creative storm of DAH …
MICHELLE … YES, YES, YES!!! :)))
When the first drop of ink falls on a piece of paper, it could be anything; accident, shop list, poem or novel, something ordinary or something special, it could be everything.
But everything means nothing before the end.
And only a fool assume the nothing will be biggest thing in own kind. Only blind look further than humans eyes can see.
And I am a fool and I am blind, and I tell you this will be big stuff.
Not now, not tomorrow.
Now this is just too much cups of coffee and headache.
Damn creation it is funny stuff, you never know what will happen around the corner, what you will see when light of a candle fend off the dark. Maybe there is nothing, just wall or everything in some garden of secrets.
I wish you all damn good world famous magazine.
You deserve that.
Like genius a moment of peace of mind.
Let it burn the souls of billions.
MICHELLE,
all my love to U…
BURN
BURN
BURN
like yellow roman candles…
MARCIN…
yeeeeeeeeeeeees…
my beautiful poet… please keep writing!!!
love back’atcha panos!
and more….
(from the masthead of The Sun Magazine):
What is to give light must endure burning.
- viktor frankl