how will we finance BURN ???

Burn-tees

Published on December 13, 2008 by david alan harvey. 118 Comments

118 Responses to “how will we finance BURN ???”

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  • anton
    December 15, 2008 at 7:48 am

    BURNers… and ALL

    back home… missing you all already… i want to come back…

    ALL

    thanks a million for all the comments and the great ideas and offers to help and all… will get a lot of stuff done “soonest”, and if any help needed, i will post immediately here…. you guys are all great, really…

    cheers,

    BURNton

    :)

  • david alan harvey
    December 15, 2008 at 7:56 am

    SOMEGUY….

    you are quite the great thinker…and i now understand a bit better your words “something to lose” from this most recent missive…

    yes, yes i see it…and as the world of traditional print is crumbling before our very eyes and technology is allowing us so much freedom combining video and stills and voice over and original music etc etc, we would indeed “lose” something if we did not take advantage of the organic nature of what is growing in this garden….

    our worst case scenario here is this…by launching soonest a “model” we will have a better version of what we have now…even those of us who have seen some stories in development here , will actually be “surprised” when they are all up in nice style….even if we do not add one single new person to our forum, we will have a better looking “campus” to further our educational imperative…

    please please join us as “yourself” with words of wisdom, some good old fashioned still photography, or a movie you make just for us right here…whatever mistakes i have made here, or am about to make, and then fix and then start again , will always be taken as part of my own “education process”….your input, either critical or supportive, will be taken in the very context you have set up for yourself…valued for its intelligence…

    and , of course, i will just have to be me as well…going on my gut instincts, sensing the “right moment”, celebrating the talent of others….

    i do enjoy the camaraderie of small campfire or clubhouse…hence Magnum instead of Getty…i am unlikely to change much on that score…however, in this “new age of electronic reason” the parameters of “clubhouse” have already expanded exponentially and have brought me the likes of Audrey and Glenn and Marcin and Rafal and Patricia and Bob and Panos and Erica and Anton and Tom and Lassal and YOU…all folks i have “met” right here…

    so, let’s keep the window open…fresh air circulating breathes life into a room….and at the same time, please give me a chance to do what i think i can do….the buzz of shared thought has already taken hold…still, and i think you may agree, there has to be a singular vision for how the gallery is lit..how the show is hung…someone who takes in the palette of ideas and then brushes them to canvas….

    join me in New York when you have time…i think you must know by now, my door is open…or, if i am your territory, there is always time for coffee or whatever….

    many thanks for the log you have thrown on the campfire…

    cheers, david

  • Justin Partyka
    December 15, 2008 at 8:00 am

    Prints sound like a good idea to raise some money.

    How about having a BURN show to raise money?

    Find a venue in NYC who supports the cause and will offer the space for free or next to nothing.

    Those readers and contributors of Road Trips who want to see BURN become a reality and success can donate a limited edition collectors print for the show. All proceeds from the first event would go to getting BURN off the ground.

    DAH could curate and select the images from our work, or it could be a group effort or have a guest curator.

    If it works it could become an annual event, or take place 3-4 times a year in different cities with the profits from the prints being split 50-50 between BURN and the photographer.

    Cheers,

    Justin

  • Neil
    December 15, 2008 at 8:17 am

    Congrats on the productivity of you kibbutz-goers! I’m glad you had a good time and seeing motion from this is very exciting.

    I just want to say that it won’t just be Panos who buys a burn bandanna…

    Limited edition prints is a good idea. I’d buy affordable prints for my wall!

    What is the Burn model right now? What is the next step?

    I like the idea of “work in progress” and seperate “final stories” so something updates with interesting teasers/ideas and the audience is brought into the production of the final essay. Education and entertainment. I love photos but I love the stories behind the photos too!

  • Lassal
    December 15, 2008 at 11:27 am

    “How about having a BURN show to raise money?

    Find a venue in NYC who supports the cause and will offer the space for free or next to nothing.”

    Why only NYC???

    Once this is set we could try to find places EVERYWHERE! We are international, some are in India, some in Scotland, some in Brazil, some … We could have a road show getting around there…

    … in the tradition of thinking big. :)

  • Justin Partyka
    December 15, 2008 at 11:44 am

    Lassal,

    My post did indicate other cities in addition to NYC. But it seems to make (to me at least) sense that NYC would be the place to launch such a fund raising event.

    I totally agree that other locations would be great too. Obviously there would be some work arranging such events and as you point out we are international. So if we could get the man and woman power behind such things, they could take place anywhere.

  • Patricia Lay-Dorsey
    December 15, 2008 at 11:50 am

    AUDREY

    I’m so glad you reposted the link to your new work. I’d missed it the first time. My favorites are 1, 2, 4, 5, 6

    I very much like the idea of 7 but somehow would prefer your Mum off to one side or perhaps the photo taken from below.

    Thanks so much for sharing your favorites of my new photos. I really feel like we’re sisters walking hand in hand doing our projects. We share such similar aesthetics.

    JUSTIN & LASSAL

    I think your collaborative idea is right on! A traveling BURN print exhibit to raise funds. But I’m with Justin, it’s inaugural exhibit should be in NYC.

    Now, to get practical. I’m assuming you’re talking about a show of matted rather than framed prints. Shipping framed prints to different venues would be unbelievably expensive. Of course we’d need an internaional exhibit committee to coordinate this undertaking ;=)

    SOMEGUY

    You are a treasure, my friend. So glad you found us and decided to share your views. Looking forward to meeting you by name & work!

    Patricia

  • Charles Peterson
    December 15, 2008 at 11:58 am

    A little late here to this thread:

    Print sales are ONE way to raise funds but certainly shouldn’t be seen as a primary one. Print sales can be fickle, so it’s best to see them as a bonus when and if they do happen. Plus someone has to stay on top of packing and shipping etc, lost or damaged prints, unhappy customers (believe me it does happen), etc etc. Something to think about.

    I’m not as opposed to advertising as some might be. If (and if it’s a big if) it can contained and it actually enhances vs distracts from the site. By that I mean choosing the types of advertising and it’s layout etc. Of course this may be more work and hassle than it’s worth. Just a thought.

    Sponsorship is good, and can be folded into the type of advertising I mentioned above. In other words, say Leica gave some $ for sponsorship and maybe featured an image by one of the contributors in an ad for the M8 taken by that contributor with an M8. Maybe the prints for sale are made with an Epson, or HP.

    Subscription is another way to go, but imo has to be kept low (say no more than $20 per year).

    Also, the idea of paying contributing photographers is a nice idea, but may not be a realistic one at least for the near future, unless one wants to go with heavy advertisers. Photographers should see this as a chance for exposure for projects that might not get it otherwise, therefore giving them the opportunity to sell prints, add to their portfolio, etc. This is different than the news stand mag that says “we have no budget” and yet are featuring huge vodka ads and so on (and usually blowing all of their photo budget on the fashion spread). Of course if the sponsorship idea can fly then the photographers wh are getting sponsored will of course receive some $. But I don’t think anyone should come into this thinking of it as a way to make some $.

    Charles

  • Lassal
    December 15, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    Justin,

    sorry, reading my post now it looks as if I was upset about the NYC event proposal.

    That was absolutely NOT the case! Quite the contrary: I love the idea!!! I did not recognize your hint as to other locations, and you are absolutely right as to NYC being the obvious place to start. I was just overwhelmed – quite positively – thinking we could (later) think bigger than that and there would be ways because we are spread around the world!!!

    Of course this needs some time to build up, as you already pointed out. But once we have one potential show with excellent material, which maybe (or maybe not) was sponsored by different companies and curated by DAH, we could open some doors. I am sure I could open at least one door here in Frankfurt.

    :)))))

    Sorry for misleading tonality here…

    Love the idea!! :)

  • Lassal
    December 15, 2008 at 12:41 pm

    It is not about making € … It is about growth in an demanding environment … it is about giving and taking … it is about a chance we could have to maybe make something possible that otherwise would be so much harder.

  • Justin Partyka
    December 15, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    LASSAL,

    Unfortunately “misleading tonality” is the nature of the internet sometimes! No need to apologise, but thank you. Frankfurt sounds as good a place as any to have one of these potential shows.

    PATRICIA,

    Glad you like the idea. I don’t see it as a touring show though, mainly because of the expenses involved as you point out. I was thinking that each show would be its own entity, probably even featuring different work. I personally always prefer framed prints in a show, and because the whole idea is to sell the work from the show in as easy a way as possible for all concerned, I had thought that perhaps the prints could be made (and framed) in the cities of the shows to save costs etc.

    I envision that these events could be on for a week (perhaps two) and the closing day would hold an event / reception upon which potential buyers could come and talk to the photographers etc and hopefully give some money to BURN by buying a print which they could take away that evening.

    So there would be no show “opening” but people would have a week to see the work and think about any purchases before the closing event.

    I’m sure there are lots of drawbacks to this which I cannot see right now, but I think in theory it could work.

    The key point though will be to promote these things like there is no tomorrow

    CHARLES,

    For the very reasons you point out -selling prints online is not a good idea in my opinion. It could just end up creating more trouble than it is worth. At least with a show, people see what they are going to get and the work is “sold as seen.”

    I also agree this is not about making money in terms of profit, but costs have to be met and obviously if BURN could get some money behind it there is potential for lots of things to happen, such as (partly) funded group projects etc etc.

    The idea of sponsorship from related companies is good too.

  • Lassal
    December 15, 2008 at 4:35 pm

    Justin

    thanks for understanding :)

    Guess I’ll get off here now for today. I kinda lost my communication techniques tonight. It was a tough day.

    What I meant about money/chance is that you run risk of endangering chances if one looks at the bucks first. And this is a hell of a good chance for a lot of pepople to do great stuff and get it out there.

    Almost everything we have been talking about does not only involve a lot of work but also money. So yes, of course it should be aim of BURN to find the means to pay for it’s projects. That’s why we are discussing this here … :))))

    As to the shows. I am pretty sure I could put up something as I said above. It is easier to put up a show where things are not for sale directly. At least here it is. But you could always lead people to where they could buy… Obviously with a dangerous time gap in between where people could change their minds.

    Yes, a show would cost money and maybe we could get a sponsor. But a good road show could increase prestige too. I sincerely doubt that we would sell much (if at all) in Frankfurt, if people could buy from the wall … Unless you are in a very good gallery. I have observed this often.

    I think in NYC people do have a different approach to this kind of things.

    I know some people from museums, galleries etc. here who could give some input on how to best do it in Germany (hypotetically speaking for now). I’ll do some research on that, ok?

    A lot of things will have to be accomplished before that anyway.

    A lot of work ahead!

    By the way, I just dropped out of EPF, I fear. I pushed the reset-button on my project and will start more or less over. Just wrote David an email about it. I might still have enough images, but I am not sure about it.

    I had just finished programming the flash-parts and it kind of fell apart as I saw it together for the first time. So I’ll do it over. No problem.

    Guess I’ll have a lot of free time in 2009 :)

    http://www.astrangerswish.com

    Good night everyone…

    Sweet dreams!

  • chris bickford
    December 15, 2008 at 6:19 pm

    Someguy, whoever you are, I hope we meet you in person someday. You have quite a mind, and your input here is really stimulating.

    Ana, thanks for the kind words.

    Tom Hyde, you are a COMMUNIST!

  • tom hyde
    December 16, 2008 at 1:59 am

    Comrade Bickford, many great revolutionary greetings from the frozen Northwest tundra. I regret to inform, it’s back to the reeducation camp for you my friend.

  • Neil
    December 16, 2008 at 12:41 pm

    Like the site a lot Lassal!

    I like your project more every time I see it.

    What will you be changing with the reset?

  • marcin luczkowski
    December 17, 2008 at 4:13 pm

    David

    I apologize for my absence during so important time for this forum and for you. I have crazy time now, but soon it should be over. I think You know, this is always pleasure to participete in every big moment for this forum for me, but for a while I will be only reader.

    Of course if you think I could help in any case, just give me a note. As usually.

    sorry for english but I have no mind for gramar. :)

    peace for all.

    ps. I have to paint one of the Stations of the Cross at 30x30cm convas with effect like rubens at 200×150 cm. in one day… of course.

    so wish me luck, like I wish you with “our baby BURN”. :)

  • Sam
    December 17, 2008 at 8:40 pm

    David – All

    First time in front of the screen for a while,

    lots of steam being generated here…

    as always it’s infectious.

    I think Charles suggestion of subscription is a good one. You can take it a bit further.

    KCRW is a LA based (internet) radio station – a great one too I might add. Could be an interesting model to look at, as they are subscriber supported.

    They are funded by a blend of sponsorship and subscription. The subscription is multi-leveled and not enforced but requested. In other words you can listen on line anytime for free but they do ask you to pay a subscription. They have a different levels of subscription. The basic is about $25 a year. Paying this you know your helping to keep things going, giving to something you enjoy and appreciate.

    The next step up you get a small gift package (say a mug or t-shirt or 5 postcard set etc.) – this could be $5 a month or $60 a year. Then you could have a premium level ($???) where you would receive some sort of year book/annual (best of 2009) or signed prints/ tickets to exhibitions or a photo book(s) from a sponsor (book publisher).

    They also do pledge drives and sweepstakes in co-ordination with sponsors (from i-pods to cars and holidays!!!).

    With some adaptation I think something along those lines could work well…

    I hope this provides some food for thought – or some oxygen to Burn!

    cheers

    Sam

  • Tyler Gavett
    December 29, 2008 at 4:01 pm

    If it exists Ill buy that hat.

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