babies etc….

Chris_anderson_2

 

this is just a guess, but i am imagining that most of the readers here do not have children…at least  not small children requiring lots of care or certainly not new babies…we do discusss so many topics involving our work and our respective careers, but i do not think we have spoken much about the effect of family or, more importantly perhaps,  marriage and the decision to have or not to have children….i do often hear discussions among photographers, both women and men, who surmize that marriage/family/children could somehow alter or stop the pursuit of a career in photography…particularly if travel is  involved….

Chris Anderson, conflict photographer extraordinairre, playfully holds aloft 6 week old Atlas, as his bride Marion, Newsweek magazine editor, looks on at breakfast yesterday morning in Tuscany…obviously Chris and Marion both have careers that require lots and lots of attention and yet little Atlas needs his fare share of their time as well…

there are certainly many examples of men and women in our craft who have successful marriages and raise emotionally healthy children, but there are also many stories of exactly the opposite…i  personally do not subscribe to the often repeated theory that photographers in particular are particularly susceptible to failed marriages etc., but surely it takes a special combo to make it all "work"….i did manage , with the sustained help of my now ex-wife, to take my sons on so so many assignments around the world….but, i was not working in conflict zones and i was also not jumping from one two day assignment to another…i had long periods of time in one place…

Alessandra Sanguinetti (below) , also with Magnum and author of "On the Sixth Day" lives happily in New York with her photographer husband Martin and their one and a half year old Catalina….they seem to me to be "living happily ever after", but i am sure there must be times of compromise between her career and his….

both photographers are being included in my new family work and i started shooting Chris and Marion long before Atlas was born…i plan to photograph Alessandra and Martin in the coming year..(no, these are digi photos and not the REAL pictures for this project, but i love snapshots just like anyone else…)

i am curious how you feel about family and your career…..will you "wait" until your professional life is established before you raise a family , or will you just go ahead and figure out how it all blends later?

 

Alessandra_sang

718 Responses to “babies etc….”


  • Not married, never have been, and no kids, so this doesnt pose any problems for me.

  • but i love snapshots just like anyone else…
    —————-

    I can’t comment (smirk: yet!) on photography with children and career, having none of both, but I am curious if our friends here do think likewise about snapshots.

    Often, i get the feeling here that snapshots (and I mean snaps, not concepted, or to be published, edited, essayed snapshots… I mean: the real thing!) are simply not photography, and not part of the life of a serious, or minded photographer, God forbid.

    One takes them maybe, but do not “love” them. Who loves their snapshots too?

  • David,

    You picked a great topic, something that I wrestle with often and wonder how I will make it work if I am fortunate enough to live “the dream”. For the time being, family and marriage not something that I have considered because I want to stay focused and continue to push forward. Having a family or wife requires a lot of responsibilities that I am not ready for. At the moment I am able to live off of what I make through photography, but if I were responsible for someone else, I don’t think that would be possible. For me, I need to develop my career and myself before I commit to someone.

    Keep shooting on the project, what snapshots look great.

  • A timely topic.
    I have a 1.5 year old daughter, Nyx and a wife, Alicia. We take very seriously the responsibility of raising our daughter and it can be quite a juggle with 2 photographers, of different sorts, both of who are primarily self employed.
    There is some give and take, but we have developed a life that allows us to follow our dreams and be the parents we know we must be.
    We trade responsibilities when one of us is working or needs time to work on personal projects. We take Nyx along when we can, as the travel and stimuli of the outside world of our work is as important to her development as almost anything. It can be hard, we are not rich and are really at the beginnings of our careers, but as we progress we make it work so we can have the life we want and our child needs. We make a living on photography, how lucky we are and we hope to share that attitude with Nyx and continue to grow our family and work lives.
    Thanks for bringing it up
    Jeremy

  • DAVID:

    Don’t forget TRENT AND NARELLE :))))…and um, Sally M, Alex S, Jonas and Laara, etc etc ;))))….

    and most of the Russian photographers i know (male and female) have families……

    just sent chris a note…had no idea…so happy for them….

    ok, will write later about this, since, um, well, it’s been pretty obvious over the last year and a half my perspective on this topic ;))))

    and yes, i love love snaps…many senses, prefer Family Albums to most photograph books…and yea, we make have them too, most of the snaps are shot with either disposable camera or dima’s digital camera…but, i can’t not, not ever, get enough family albums…be prepared when we come to break yours out too ;))))….

    as for the career/family bit…well…im gonna wait to drink before writing something long, but…as a happily married couple, at times photography and all that this entails has been a test, a push, a weight, mostly when i lost sight of perspective (like the projection project i ran, where i sadly prioritized the projection and the photographers over time with my family, something i shall never do again, for no one)…as two working photographers it’s been a learning process and a remarkably enriching and challenging one…

    we’re both fortunate, we’ve learned along the way (about photography and a marriage and a marriage with 2 artists) and fed and nurtured and supported one another…there have been moments of great difficulty in this kind of life (2 working artists dealing with the same art form, etc, vanities, hurt feelings, silence etc), but what i feel so fortune is that Marina and I both recognize that as a couple we are one, as photographers each is an individual and needs space and silence and effort, but above all the family is pre-eminent…

    for me, as i’ve written often, photography which is an essential part of my life, is one compartment among the many compartments of my pulpy heart-chamber and what bears and bares and beams in my life and drives the greeny fuse of the photography all comes from the same place that led directly to my family…in other words, my wife and son are the source of my being…and that being is what illuminates the work…and i could survive kissing off my cameras…i would be more hard pressed if my wife and son kissed off me as a part of their lives… ;)))…

    career?….to survive in tact, to provide some kind of nourishment for them, to write and to photograph and to live as simply and as safely and as nourishing, for them, for us, as possible…that’s my career…that rest, just dross and covering… ;)))…

    oh, and yea, i dig snapsnots big big time… …

    but marina and i came late to this dog and pony show call photography, and we came late (sort of) to each other (well, compared with couples who marry/meet in their 20’s), so the tide turned in a more directly navigable direction ;)))…

    running
    b

  • Hi David,

    I have a 10 months old daughter, Anne-Camille, and wife Nicole. I consider my family my most important job or assignement. Over the past 10 months, I have photographed my daugther and her short live.

    There is the site if you want to have a look at it:
    http://lemondedac.blogspot.com/

    Enjoy!!

  • I have 2 children under the age of 3 with twins comming in the next 5 months so I can relate to the difficulties of business travel.

    My wife and I turn down business trips when we can. It makes it easier on the family.

    Right now my wife is in New York while I attend to my business plus caring for the kids after day care. It can easily be done but in moderation. Moderation.

    Speaking of snap shots… thats about 90% of my photography these days. No more fun photography trips w/ friends or personal projects. However I occasionally shoot a portrait and do some product shots for a company to break out of the mundane though.
    Even though I have never been a “photographer” in the professional sense… I still NEED to fulfill my creativity with a camera. Part of the balanced lifestyle.
    Peace,
    jason

  • Thanks for this delicious slice of life from Italy.
    What are the meals that accompanying these images? :))

    I was already married when my passion for photography returned so there was no decision to be made there.

    As far as kids, believe it or not NO ONE in my Mother or Father’s family…Aunts, Uncles, etc…had kids! I have no cousins, am an only child (two half sisters old enough to be my parents…so did not grow up with sisters) and did not ever get the “message” that having children was something that was required in life. I think that was a blessing…I was able to be free from society and decided very early on that I did not want to be a mother. I had enough “mothering” from all my relatives to last many lifetimes and “mothered” all of them in turn by caring for each one of them…Aunts, Uncle, Parents… over the course of many years before they passed away.

    So now it’s time for ME…with as much compromise is necessary to keep my marriage strong!

    Disregard that “time for me” comment…I left out someone of great importance who takes up a huge chunk of my life…my parrot, Eddie the Eagle. Just when I thought I was somewhat free I found him in my backyard six years ago and now it’s almost like having a child…we are inseperable from him…karma I guess!

    Snapshots….I have been thinking more and more about going thru all my old snapshots…my surfer buddies from high school, Aunts in Miami Beach….I know there are going to be some gems.

  • Thanks for this post and opening up the discussion.

    As a photographer and mother of two girls–one who’s four and the other who will turn two at the end of August–I have definitely struggled with the balance between my creative pursuits and being a stay-at-home parent, certainly. I think for me it’s a continual learning process, and a subject I tackle quite often on my blog which you can see here: http://elizabethflemingphotography.blogspot.com

    I have to say writing on the blog over the last few months has really helped me to figure out, as best I can, where the balance lies, and to share both the difficulties and the absolute beauty of being a parent and an artist.

    I think too for me because my photographs center around documenting my life, my children are part of my creativity, and so they feed and nurture each other. When I was getting back into my work it was difficult at first, but slowly as I’ve gotten into a routine I’ve realized, as is often the case, that in order to be a good mother I need this creative outlet. I’m happier when I’m involved in something I’m passionate about, and I feel lucky that I can explore the day-to-day rituals of my family through my camera. But I also was willing when my children were newborns and when they were really young to just shoot when I could and put the more promotional part of work aside.

    I’m also lucky because my work is not responsible for paying the bills, and I have a very supportive husband who understands my need to pursue my art. He’s a photographer as well, but is involved in the commercial editorial world, and I’d say he’s my biggest cheerleader. So as far as relationships go I guess it’s important to be with someone who will understand (for the most part, no one’s perfect) when the laundry piles up or the house is a mess because you’re deep into shooting or editing, etc. But I can understand how it could be much more difficult if one’s work involved travel, or if both parents were responsible for making money. I guess it’s probably obvious and maybe a bit cliched to say it, but every family is different, and it’s all about finding what works for you, often through trial and error.

    Elizabeth
    http://www.elizabethfleming.com

  • Well, I read somewhere about a particular photographer who said his dog barked at him when he tried to enter his house after a long time spent away from home for assignment work…
    Also, David the image at the bottom of this post is really graceful, snapshot or no snapshot, thats a great image…

  • autch… this post is very personal to me… in the last days i “arrived” 4 months late to my love and life. now i have to getting a new life and dreaming with love that i have lost. now the photography is not a priority (but of course i will continue my photography work), it was thinking in photography/career/moneySurvive that i have lost my love.

    cheers,
    nelson

  • autch… this post is very personal to me… in the last days i “arrived” 4 months late to my love and life. now i have to getting a new life and dreaming with love that i have lost. now the photography is not a priority (but of course i will continue my photography work), it was thinking in photography/career/moneySurvive that i have lost my love.

    cheers,
    nelson

  • autch… this post is very personal to me… in the last days i “arrived” 4 months late to my love and life. now i have to getting a new life and dreaming with love that i have lost. now the photography is not a priority (but of course i will continue my photography work), it was thinking in photography/career/moneySurvive that i have lost my love.

    cheers,
    nelson

  • autch… this post is very personal to me… in the last days i “arrived” 4 months late to my love and life. now i have to getting a new life and dreaming with love that i have lost. now the photography is not a priority (but of course i will continue my photography work), it was thinking in photography/career/moneySurvive that i have lost my love.

    cheers,
    nelson

  • autch… this post is very personal to me… in the last days i “arrived” 4 months late to my love and life. now i have to getting a new life and dreaming with love that i have lost. now the photography is not a priority (but of course i will continue my photography work), it was thinking in photography/career/moneySurvive that i have lost my love.

    cheers,
    nelson

  • autch… this post is very personal to me… in the last days i “arrived” 4 months late to my love and life. now i have to getting a new life and dreaming with love that i have lost. now the photography is not a priority (but of course i will continue my photography work), it was thinking in photography/career/moneySurvive that i have lost my love.

    cheers,
    nelson

  • autch… this post is very personal to me… in the last days i “arrived” 4 months late to my love and life. now i have to getting a new life and dreaming with love that i have lost. now the photography is not a priority (but of course i will continue my photography work), it was thinking in photography/career/moneySurvive that i have lost my love.

    cheers,
    nelson

  • autch… this post is very personal to me… in the last days i “arrived” 4 months late to my love and life. now i have to getting a new life and dreaming with love that i have lost. now the photography is not a priority (but of course i will continue my photography work), it was thinking in photography/career/moneySurvive that i have lost my love.

    cheers,

    nelson

  • autch… this post is very personal to me… in the last days i “arrived” 4 months late to my love and life. now i have to getting a new life and dreaming with love that i have lost. now the photography is not a priority (but of course i will continue my photography work), it was thinking in photography/career/moneySurvive that i have lost my love.

    cheers,

    nelson

  • Dear david, (hello all the rest), I´m a cinematographer, but an avid/silent follower of this blog, My case: one child & one divorce: At one time I was the fastest in town, you cannot imagine the arguments i´d give to convince everyone that the early morning light was better, if it would get me home in time to bath my son. Now divorced and shooting commercials, which means short and intense assignments, but plenty of time off in between, I find i´m very fortunate: When I work I concentrate 100% on that, when I don´t I concentrate 100% on my son… Best of both worlds, but I try and keep it only one at a time and enjoy them both to the fullest.

  • Hi there David,

    greetings from sunny Cairns, Australia. I’m great mates with your pal Kerry Trapnell and I’m sure he gets a laugh looking at me trying to balance my life with my family!

    About 6 months ago my wife decided to go back to work – she’s now a stewardess and takes off overseas for days on end while I look after two little boys of 3 and 5.
    I’ve gone from a life traipsing all over the planet to a housebound one but it’s enabled me to concentrate more on my local area and I’ve seen some things in the last 6 months that I hadn’t seen in ten years of living here.
    For documentary photograhpers there’s always a story to follow. If you’re stuck in one place then you just find the story close to your heart and your home.

    cheers

    Paul Dymond
    http://www.dymond.com.au

  • well.. i am a matter of weeks away from fatherhood and it’s going to enrich my life professionally and personally.

    i spent a decade doing the world-wide thing and it was great.. it would never have been possible with a family, since it was short trips, frequant trips.. every weekend.
    now that i will do the father thing it is in no way going to halt my working life, since the shotr trips do not fascinate me so much anymore and both beate and i want to give baby some rich experiences..

    paul sullivan, good friend and excellent writer, is just back from 5 weeks touring europe for a book.. with his girlfriend and new born.
    recently kidnapped and released sean langan – father of two – has been working conflict zones since he’s been a dad.

    beate loves me for a number of reasons and is understanding that work will take me away on occasion.. we have taked about taking baby round the world.. talked about working in orphanages in serbia (she is a nursery leader) and i’ve even shown her the frei film about nachtwey – and beate was supportive if i wanted to do that as well.

    knowing where i would like my career to go next is part of the attraction, beate says..
    knowing i will always need to be on the road to an extent is part of the course.

    i have given up so very much for my photography in the past… (house.. girlfriends.. missing friends ) and even though i got what i wanted it never felt like i thought it would.. after my father died in 91 my mother became estranged and i operated with photography as family, friend and everything for the next 16 years.. dependable, always there and steady.. that is photography for me.
    i was giving up too much though, in a way, now i will have both my career and a family..

    of course.. when little boy drops into the world things may change.. however i’m hoping things are prepared well.. honest foundations about what we need from life and from love and work have been built and my hope is to grow in maturity.. something which will help my work going forward.

    having said all that.. i might have been at the september loft workshops if not for impending fatherhood.. first compromise? i don’t think so.
    beate wants me to go if i really want to.. however i need the next 6 months.. want to show all i have online.. and so this year is not right in anycase.

    laying back and going with the flow for a while is what i want.. this year.. and next year.. back to it.. full force.. a list of idea’s is building up.. and it’ll happen.
    for better or worse.

    it involved a great deal of selfishness to have the life i have had for a decade.. and i’m simply not that selfish anymore.. life on the road is humbling.
    i’m looking forward to a good family life for the first time.. and a better working life than ever, standing next to the woman i love and who loves me.. spending tim making my little boy laugh.

  • time, that is.. i’m not calling him tim..

    i bought a pram today.. and took photos as well.

    whoopwhoop.

  • oh – and wear the suit you want to wear tomorrow, today.
    whether with work or with family.. it is happening now and waiting for either will lead to a let-down.

    i think.
    :o)

  • DAVID,
    Interesting topic!
    Joachim Ladefoged spoke about this in a recent interview a swedish magazine did with him. He said..

    “I want to be a good dad. I myself haven’t had my dad as a part of my life when I was little. I don’t want to go to Afghanistan and take the risk of leaving my son without a father.”

    Another quote..

    “It’s not possible to become the best photographer in the world when you have a family. You have to choose. Behind every successful photographer stands a damaged child. And I prefer to be no. 10 in the world, and have a real family. James Nachtwey, one of my old idols, has bet it all on the work and doesn’t have a family. Do you know what he said about my decision, whit a glimpse in his eye: When I grow up I want to be like you.”

    I’m assuming he’s speaking about photojournalism and documentary photography.
    Maybe taken a little out of it’s context and poorly translated, but some interesting words.
    Interesting interview overall with some not so positive words about Magnum thrown in there too. Today he’s with VII agency..

    Cheers

  • ELIZABETH FLEMING:

    :))))

    Your work is MAGNIFICENT!…drop-dead gorgeous…i loved all 3 stories on your web site…really, loved deeply……

    the traces and metaphors and caught drops of our lives, indeed! :))

    so happy to dream up the work…

    cheers
    Bob

  • Martin :))…

    Joachim rocks, but i’d take some umbridge with Joachim on the:

    “It’s not possible to become the best photographer in the world when you have a family….”

    what is “best photographer in the world”, as I have no idea in the world, not a clue (is there one, ever??)…i know some extraordinary photographers who’ve a family (some named above) and some who’ve not had or lost a family…and i know bad photographers who have a family and dont/had ;)))…no relaitonship whatsoever to whether a photographer is good/interesting/challenging or not…though, MAYBE being a PJ constantly on the road is a different issue…

    “..Behind every successful photographer stands a damaged child…”

    and behind most of US (all of us, once we were warriors/children) is a damaged child and so, im not sure that photogs have a lock on that ;)))))…damn, what about Professional Basketball/Baseball/Hockey/Football players ;)))))))))))))))

    so, though as a dad and as a photographer (and as a son), I totally understand what Joachim is saying, im not sure so much if this is about being a photographer/choices…

    i think some folk can be successful photographers (however they define successful) and have a family and other photographers cannot, i don’t think there’s a realtionship there, …except when it comes to separation (for example, PJ’s)…that question (traveling away from the family) is another matter…that’s i imagine at the heart of Joachim’s idea and David’s :))…

    As for Jim’s family, well he’s left a legacy (and not only the photographic work) of humanitarian act that is as large of an idea as family i know :)))…it has to be awesomely lonely for Jim too sometimes, for sure, but hell so too can any life we’ve chosen…

    I cannot imagine my life without marina or dima, not for a blazing second, but nor do i think the choices i have made are more rich, more real, more authentic, more loving….the key, for me: as a personn felt the worth of their life in connection with another human being…and i’d say Jim has that too…he’s got a family too :))))

    thanks for the quotes :))

    cheers
    running
    bob

  • BOB,
    I’m not behind everything, but he has some good points. I made a big mistake though.
    Wish I could edit my comment.

    I wrote..

    “..Behind every successful photographer stands a damaged child…”

    It should be..

    “..Behind every successful person stands a damaged child…”

    As for “being the best in the world” I don’t think that’s for all categories of photography.
    Also recently heard Mattias Klum (Nat Geo nature photographer) on the radio and he seemed to have similiar views like Ladefoged about children..

    Cheers

  • It is a bit different if one wants one’s life centered around photography as a bread maker, a total pursuit, whatever the cost (a la Van Gogh), or rather a passion, however absorbing, that takes a step back to one’s job in life, day (of the week) in and day out.

    Maybe one way of asking the question is: could photography be so much one’s goal in life (and it must feed you) that one would sacrifice/postpone having children, being a parent, or even a BF/GF/spouse?

    Elizabeth, I think #30 is very special. It is very trivial and evocative at the same time. The little one is rolling on the floor, but the carpet design is almost like an angel’s wing coming off his back. Just wonderful…

  • Sorry, I meant:

    and it must feed you eventually…

  • I have two kids, teens, and am their only parent. It’s been this way for exactly 7 years as of next week. I do not photograph as my main income, I came to that even later. It’s a struggle to get the time and space to learn over any sustained period — but I spend a lot more time learning how to parent, and am getting two of the best relationships of my life out from it.

    I took a one week long workshop (MPW) that expanded my mind, and provided the total luxury of being surrounded by people who lived and breathed photography, amazing; but it was very hard to get that week away, out of town. I think it’s important, though, that the kids are seeing me reach for something that I want to learn, that they see me trying and failing and trying again.

    They slow me down, definitely…but then again, they slow me down…Something to be said for that.

    Joan

  • Janet and I waited 17 years before we had children. She’s an artist and writer. Anyway, I’m 61 and have an 11 year old and 12 year old. Both boys. It’s great fun. An absolute blast. My wife and I still look at each other and sometimes say, “There are little people in the house”. And then laugh. Good topic to bring up, David. [I reintroduced myself to Bryan – David’s son – at LOOK3 last year. Bryan and I laughed when I described when I’d first met him. He said “I was one year old then”. Time does fly.] I hope all of you don’t mind my occasional remembrances of DAH.

  • BOB – I’ve got an issue with that whole lone Warrior bullshit , I’t never quite worked for me – We started having babies within 6 months of starting our new life as a freelancer , Miles was happy accident as my wife Jude and I had literally spent about 5 weeks of the previous 12 months in the same country ( but when your on a good thing you just know it )and then 2 years later Stella comes along .
    The thing is it’s working for me to have something to come home to , an impetus to arrive do my job well, collect my pay , leave !Before I bacame a family man ,I worked partied ,travelled and spent far too much time on the piss! Since I became a family man , I’m working a lot more on things I enjoy and am good at , filled 2 passports using our little town in the North as a base – This time has been the most fulfilling time of my life ,both personally and professionaly ,
    I remember covering a Royal Tour a few years ago sitting around a table with some photographer mates from the UK ,talking about a colleague who worked out that he had been in the country for 4 of his daughters 21 birthdays – He quickly took a redundancy and became a fulltime carer for his grandkids – There’s a lot of cautionary tales in our biz.
    The absence thing is an issue only when the jobs draaaaag on with no end in sight , but at the end of the day we both agreed that this was how we were going to support our family and that when I am home I am 100 % home and when I’m out a phone call would be nice.
    I wonder who the best photographer in the world is?

  • This has been seen, but it seemed appropriate again…
    http://www.mediastorm.org/0018.htm

  • KELLY

    I just finished “Evidence of my Existence” book – great read. I just mailed it to Lance….

  • I haven’t read it yet Gina, but I’ll grab it once he is finished. I love the MM piece. It’s good to see you here and I’m excited to see Mexico from a bus when you are ready.

  • this is an interesting question that DAH has asked. i decided a long time ago not to have kids. i love my life and do not see children fitting into that. don’t get me wrong – I LOVE KIDS – and am one kick-ass Auntie – but it’s just not for me. I love to travel, watch 9 hours of football on sunday, see 3 movies a week, take naps, and I have VERY little patience.

    there is a new NG book out by Annie Griffiths Belt, “A Camera, Two Kids, and a Camel. Annie took her 2 kids on her assignments and made it work.

    then again – i truly admire the Nachtwey’s of the world who sacrifice “family” for their work, vision, and passion.

  • ” no, these are digi photos and not the REAL pictures for the project, but i love snapshots just like anyone else..” ) DAH

    this is an interesting statement and something i think about from time to time. I’m curious from a professional documentarians point of view ( David ) when is a photo a snapshot as opposed to a work of art or something like that. Most people i think associate snapshots with the 35mm format – however in this case ( David ) used the word digi which is basically 35mm just not film. recently DAH posted a picture titled, ” fisherman and his wife, ” clearly a work of art in the highest order in my humble opinion. sometimes the difference between a snapshot or something more deliberate is a tough call when viewing fotos. how about nan goldin, larry clark, terry richardson, lee friedlander, or even a ryan mcginley ? which is what ?

    david how do you determine or quantify what is a snapshot vs a picture that transcends labels and just is .. pure classic.. like 90 % of what exists on the Magnum site hardly snapshots; yet most of which were shot with 35mm film cameras.. anyone care to expound or have any ideas-thoughts ?

  • Heh, I guess I’m the not very family person here. I don’t have pets (not allowed in the flat), no girlfriend, all my relatives live in different countries, and even the plants that I had accumulated with time (and via girls) have died. I didn’t share a house with my siblings since I was two years old, and I didn’t share a country with them since I was four. They live in Finland, my mother lives in Spain and I live in Wales. Right now I miss my cousins in the countryside the most because it has been more than five years since I met them the last time. At least I do have friends everywhere…

  • MARTIN :)))…

    I was kind of playing with Joachim’s quotes, gesting with that kind of thinking. :))..No worries, and i totally get what Joachim was saying, it’s just (good or bad) i tend to react when photographers, even more so good ones, talk about being “the best photographer…” or that there is such a think: it’s such a stupid gladiatorial bullshit mentality ;)))…maybe that’s part of the entire heroic PJ world (i listen to it lots when i drink with some), but it just silly peacock stuff, but i totally understand Joachim’s point: it is very difficult to divide “loyalties”, when one’s “job” or “life passion” involves enormous amounts of time away from home with people not your family…it’s a complex and profoundly difficult life choice…and like Joachim, i wouldnt trade my own decisions as a husband/father/photographers for Jim’s life either….and i meant that without judgment :))…which i was trying to suggest. :))

    BROTHER GLENN: :))

    I totally find the whole “warrior” mentality totally moronic too (specially as it applies to the PJ world), but that’s not what i was suggesting…i meant that each child struggles with growing up with ridiculously imperfect parents…and i hope to god that my son forgives all the stupid ass parenting and decisions i’ve made for us, for him…it’s my only thought, as a parent, is that have i made his life more safe, more certain, less damaged than the one i grew upon, and i guess that is every parent’s, or most parents hopes, and there aint another warrior in the world like young girls and boys and what they have to survive and grow into…and it doesnt matter if mommy was a WPP award-winning PJ or Daddy was a drunk postal worker or if both parents, or one parent, were the choirmaster and president of the schoolboard and founder of the redcross, each child is a miracle of survial regardless of our best intentions, and so im not so sure that the making of a good or fit (illfit) parent is related to (immediately) their job, but more fundamental thing: certainty of love given and the certain of safety felt as they struggle to wade into this life :)))))…

    on the day i was married, i became a father…and everything, i mean everything (photography, writing, drinking, family, travel, tv, books, money, every bloody thing) changed, cock-cold-hard, and my life was upended…

    and thankfully, i’ve never looked back, not once ;)))…

    hugs
    b

  • GINA – Interesting that Annie can bring her kids away non assignment with her – I Think DAH did th – Our first family assignment resulted in concussion , a black eye and a mouthful of Kangaroo Poop! We will try again in September!
    In retrospect I think The whole Uncle/Aunty experience is what prepared me for starting my own family – But why do many think you can’t have a family and still live a creative life following your vision with passion? The support that my family give out allow me to work harder,smarter and more creatively than ever before – I honestly could’nt work the way I do without the support from home.

  • i mean absolutely LITERALLY became a father on the day of my wedding…nuptials, food, cognac and a family….my dad later said: “well bob, i thought you did things kinda slow…guess i was wrong” ;))…

    hugs
    b

  • BOB – sometimes imperfect parents make for make for an interesting childhood – My Dad was a non stop traveller when he came back from Vietnam – we just went along and did’nt know anything different from playing on the side of a dirt road while Dad Bulldozed it flat and making freinds with any kids we could find at outback roadhouses , small towns etc – probably prepared me for a career in getting to know strangers and taking their picture.

  • GLEN – i definitely do believe that you can have creativity and family. i just know i would never be able to watch “Meet the Press” and RAIDER games uninterrupted…. just kidding. My twin was a single mom at 19 and I was there with her through it all. it’s just not the path for me. I have never felt alone with this decision and hope I never do…

  • John Fulton, love the remembrances but you must throw in something just a little embarrassing on occasion ;-)

  • DAH you are most probably psychic…

    All I can say is since I was about six years old I vowed never to have kids, because there are so many in the world that are neglected, abused and hurt by the adult world in so many ways.

    I could never guarantee that bringing another person onto this earth would be anything but a selfish act of gratification, playing god if you will, for the benefit of not having the courage to face your own personal mortality.

    Now I know lots of people with families might feel that’s a bit harsh, but I did make my choices when I was a child, long before I became a photographer.

    My career choice is really nothing to do with my childlessness, it has more to do with my view of someone who has always struggled to find some real meaning with foisting life onto another being and then denying its existence…

  • where i live the biggest money earner is working away from shore on the oil rigs..

    i’ve yet to hear of an oil worker, who spends 3 or 4 in ever 8 weeks out in the north sea, say it would be unfair to have children.. because they want to be the best oil worker they can.

    it is not suitable for perhaps a very small section of photographers – however i don’t think that has anything to do with dedication or ambition.. i think it’s as lisa says above.. as others say.. i think it must be a personal choice.

    it’s a cliche which many photographers use – and i’ve used in the past – that work would prevent a family. when i think on it further i wonder if photography was a great excuse for me to live without responsibility, hiding behind my profession..loosing relationships..

    everyone is different – astonishingly different.. and to meet a lover on the same life curve and want to progress that lifestyle is an amazing thing.
    the sweeping generalization that it is not compatible with any profession is daft, i think.. cliched and easy.

    bob is right i think.. basketball ‘stars’, sports people.. oil rig workers.. shift workers.. my dad, infact.

    my father was a london taxi driver.. he’d be awake and leave the house by 5.30am, to return of an evening at 8pm.. not so that he could be ‘the best taxi driver he could’, but because the job demanded it.
    he was not a selfish man, nor was he a bad father.. he just had his job to do.

    the children we look after adapt to our life choices and while not wanting to give them too much to cope with, there is no way i would want them to face the resulting resentment built up over martyring my career for them.. i do not think having kids is going to turn me into a wedding photographer.. i’m david and beate is beate.. our child will be XXXX and have his own ways and ambitions.

    parents have a right to continue a life they love.. which may be much much more inspiring for a child as well..

    big respect here for photographers with families.. continue your passion and your family with dedication and i have no doubt that your children will be injected with some rare experience, independence and, when they are old enough, real pride and love for your life choices.

  • snapshots
    pix
    phots
    is all the same.

    i have a digi which i use for mucking about.. whenever i take a snap i’m really happy with i curse that it is not on film..

    looking forward to seeing the family work DAH.. and thanks for the honest insight to your life as well as your friends lives… it’s clearly struck a chord here, not least with myself and beate – who have been talking on this subject for the past 7 months or so..
    2 to go..
    boy, he’s going to have fun.

  • David B., all, I think we can quite accept that some can juggle the 2, and some can’t. No one is the same. different backgrounds, different demons, or felicities, the best is probably keeping from “it can (‘t) be done” generalizing, and listen to personal experiences that may have gone one way or another.

    Oil riggers, taxi drivers? Hmmm, I see the point, but what if we ask the taxi driver to fetch people in a different country, or even city, every week. What if we ask him to do nightshifts an dayshifts indifferently, what if he makes peanuts working 12 hours or more, or clients won’t pay the fare (but leave your phone #, we liked your driving)…

    As david likes to say, if evryone could be a working photographer, it would be easy. After all, there are a lot more employed taxi drivers than photographers.

    If photography was a 9 to 5 job, with skills merely learnt, same ones for everyone (when it is 9 to 5 as can happen, parenting or not is most likely not an issue) , I am pretty sure David would not have introduced the topic.

  • BROTHER GLENN :)))

    yes, couldnt agree more! :))…Your dad served in Vietnam??…ok, so you must read this book (just finished it last week):

    Tom Bissell’s FATHER OF ALL THINGS

    a must!

    http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.pperl/9780375422652.html

    it’s brilliant!

    gotta run :))

    hugs
    b

  • Even small children will become grownups one day. So you better do a good job preparing them for just that.

    I just did a small project with my now eighteen year old daughter…her making the soundtrack, me making the images:

    http://www.pix.dk/sal

    I am also blessed with a son. He is eight years old and live in Turkey, with his mother. Whenever we meet down there, we travel around the country together. He is the perfect fixer. With his energy and fluent turkish, he’s kickin’ up doors. And we make good memories.

    I am lucky; I never had to chose between becoming the best photographer in the world or having a family…but I’m constantly trying to be the best father in the world.

  • Heck! If I could just find a woman who wants to be with me and wholoves me, I would have a child with her now! I am 30 and there is no time like the present! My career is gradually picking up momentum, but I think it is often foolish to wait until ‘everything is perfect’. I mean of course one does need the necessary funds to support a baby, but you can always squeeze by à la Koudelka! Better to seize opportunities and the moment!!!

  • ELIZABETH

    I really enjoyed your pictures and your attitude towards photography. In particular many shots of “Life is a series of small moments” reminds me of Arthur Tress’ photographic mood.

  • herve – that is the point.. weekends away could be difficult.. however, nothing is impossible..
    dad did night shifts as a taxi driver.. i didn’t see him during the week for many, many years.. at the weekends he slept.

    there are so many professional people who have to give more than a 9 to 5 for their keep.. creative people or straight jobs..kids grow up stable.. adapt..
    i could list half a dozen friends who balance it all perfectly well, have beautiful families and strong, outgoing children.

    i just think this image of a photographer as hard bitten traveler.. rolling stone.. is a bit of a hard pushed cliche.. true for the few, romanticized by the many and once experienced it’s not what people think it is..

    even in my busiest traveling-working years i would still have spent longer with a son than my father did with me.. since i would have worked home during the week.. that was the point of mentioning him..

    i think it comes down to parenting when together, rather than the occassions traveling.
    i fully intend to bring my son to ‘work’ whenever possible.. it’s going to be great.

    .. i’ll find out soon enough and post back..

    he’s kicking like joe cocker in an electric guitar refrain..

  • bob, glen, davin.. all quite right for me..

    this thread is getting me passionate.. i already love my son and i am as determined as ever to continue to grow my practice.. apologies if i have sounded a little defensive in my responses.. it will all fall into place soon enough..

    baby boy will have a unique life.. i had one.. beate had one.. all will be well..

    every child is neglected at some point.. every child is loved..
    the extremes, (relatively) have happened to us all.. and we’re okay.. yeah?
    we are okay.. aren’t we?
    hmm..

  • Hello to all,
    I always privileged my “career”(I put career guillement enter because I have nobody of it at the moment) in a family life, not that I do not love the children, I like them, I have moreover 9 children around me enter those of my sister and my friends… but for the moment, I do not assume financially and I did not find the dad, Thus the question does not even settle… but I hope one day to have a child and I always wanted to adopt a child (but I am conscious that the adoption in France is very difficult) we shall see what the life reserves… me maybe I shall never have a family life, I do not know…
    Kind regards, audrey

  • David,

    Interesting post! Esp. to hear the wide and varied responses so far… Many locations, ages with varying marital and family status. Quite the wide wide demographic here!

    Personally, I do look forward to having children, but I do not plan—although these things can just happen!—to do so until I feel I am on more solid ground professionally.

    Jessica and I celebrated our two year anniversary (on separate continents unfortunately) a week ago, so it is only natural that we start moving in this direction. Shit, we are a ways off now though… we don’t even have a home! So first is deciding where to settle… On the positive side we have a good starting off point as we have no professional commitments to a specific location and no property tying us down :)) …

    Of course it is a struggle juggling career with family and this industry does have a bad reputation for failed marriages, but for most life & career is a struggle, whatever you do. I think David B mentioned Oil workers for example, 3 weeks away etc. There are many professions away from the 9-5 that put pressure on relationships. Most not as wonderful as this!

    Life is about balance in every respect. Providing you can keep that balance and not get too selfish career wise the odds are in your favour… Therein lies the challenge. It is very difficult to be successful within a competitive field without a certain personal drive.

    I just don’t see myself able to give the time (and money!) I would like at this stage in my life to raising a child as I feel I have to be driven (and selfish in many respects) to establish myself. I hope if/when this ever happens I will then be able to take my foot off the gas a little, find some balance, and reap the rewards of some relative security and enjoy raising a child.

    Separate note: emailed you David regarding current work, Know you are busy, but thought I would try you one last time for a bit of feedback on the new portfolio.

    Cheers all!

    James

  • TO ALL-

    I am re-surfacing after being away for a few days, mostly for my “day-job”….I have so much catching up to do…Seems like I have been away for ages just looking at the nb of posts….

    KIDS is an interesting topic indeed….I happen to get more seriously interested into photography when I just had my little boy who is now 5 years old…Enzo..Family has expanded since with my daughtr Tia who is just 3 years old. She was one year old when I joined my first DAH workshop and since got hooked onto photography….net, never had to think hard about this at the time… Clearly, I have a more stable life and I am more “settled” than most of you having a real “day” job for many years in a big corporation… The day job for me is getting more in the way of photography than my kids really…I take them everywhere I go…These two were at LOOK3…I have adopted the HARVEY concept when I can of bringing the family everywhere I go…I travel often with my father who is also a photographer….my dad even joined a workshop with David as well so mixing family and photography is the deal for me…. Clearly, if I was in my 20s and wanted to start a carrer in photography, I can see how kids may make it more difficult…let me tell you though that there is nothing out there that compares with the joy that having children can bring you… Loove of kids has certainly influenced me as a photographer and this is why you see kids in many of my photographs…

    Talking about KIDS…At the end of last week, I told some of you that I was going for a couple of days to a boxing tournament that was taking place in Columbus Ohio for the State Fair…Very interesting event…I still need to edit what I shot for my main boxing essay that I am doing for David. It is proving an interesting challenge to find a coherent story about what I want to say there…but, while I am sorting this out, I did a very short essay on a few “Little Warriors” that I met at this boxing tournament…. This is not part of my main essay but I thought I would share this with you all in case you are interested… It was a bit disturbing for me initially to wtatch these 7-8 years old kids go on the ring…They REALLY should be on playground and are just a little older than my son but instead, these go on the ring already at 7-8, fight like champions and have fathers behind them, often boxers themselves that “almost” made it in that sport but are now hoping for their kids to succeed where they have not… Interesting stuff and I tried to make a few colorful portraits of these beautiful kids with a “broken nose” way too early…clearly, the ring is not a place for kids…

    Anyway, if interested, go to my site and in the index section, just look for the NEW “little warriors”….

    http://www.ericespinosa.com/main.php

    Do not even bother yet looking at my main boxing essay…it is a mess and I need to re-edit completely, add new pics etc….Hopefully will get the assignment completed over the next couple of weeks.

    Cheers,

    Eric

    PS: I am catching up as I said but was grat to you the work shared by many of you from Lance to Marcin…Will send more comments when back home tonight.

  • Hmmm It is probably different for a woman than for a man…

    Yes, there are good examples as Annie Griffiths but usually kids don’t stop, they’re always arguing, touching everything and getting on the nerves of whoever is with them. In a beautiful and perfect world, I would love the idea of working, shooting and travelling for assignments with my kids, but in the real world I don’t think it is possible and really admire and envy the people that can do it.

    I do think that being a mother restrains professional and photographic aspirations, at least during the first years where kids need so much care.

    saludos

    Ana

  • David, really deep post

    At the moment I don’t have any children nor the IDEA of getting married or do childern, ’cause I dont’ fell the feeeling maybe ’cause I don’t even know what to do of my life at the moment. But I really think that childern and family is getting harder the photographer job exspecially at the beginning.

    L

  • Hello all!!!
    interesting but also the previous topic it was.. I am two weeks late with your blog.
    Talking about this one..

    DAVID
    give my congratulations to Chris, he talks about the waiting for Atlas in Oslo…I really love that picture!

    On topic I remember I already give my opinion on that in one of the past forum.
    I said something like It’s really hard especially for a woman to became mother and go on photographing… may be it’s hard beeing a mother… going on doing anything else than looking after a child, especially in the first age.
    Enjoy tuscany wine!!!!

  • HOLA SEÑOR DAVID,

    La ausencia es la madrastra del amor. Verdad.

  • David B, we all agree that good parenting does not depend on the job itself, and the hours of work. My father was often away from home, and to me he will always be the greatest man I met in my life….Bar none (if that’s ok with Bob, ahahaha).

    What I meant is that for photography, as you start, there are a lot more uncertainties, especially income wise, but also career wise, that could affect a choice or a relationship. I do not think the reasons for striving a photographer or a taxi driver, are the same. Hoping this is not too cliche to say! ;)

    Maybe I misread, but do I get the slight impression that answering DAH, the men seem to want/OK the P career, the companion and the children, ie. working it out, and a few of our female friends would only stick with the passion/career and not deal with motherhood at the same time, and for 2 or 3, never. Interesting as far as genders are concerned.

    And if men were actually from….Venus! ;-)

  • Getting married and having kids made me a better person. In turn, that helped me make better pictures.

    I remember talking with Danny Wilcox Frazier at a basketball game one time. He had kids at the time and my wife and I were about to. “Having kids is way cooler than any picture I could ever make,” is what he said while we both tried to transmit our photos.

    That has been true for me. My persona is not as tied to how well I made a picture today. That has been a big load off of my shoulders. I am a more complete person with a family than without. That is not true for everyone, but it is true for me.

    Thanks for the post David.

  • ERIC and ALL…

    Love the new Little Warriors work, especially the portrait you have on your home page. The subject (kids) does fit with what we are discussing here.

    Your comment also brings up another subject for me that I’d like to see discussed here at some point…off topic for now but…

    I happen to agree with your take on children fighting. You were there photographing them, being intimate with them and yet to some degree not in full support of what was happening…although I’m SURE you did not make your feelings apparent to anyone. It reminds me of myself at Rodeos… I am the biggest animal lover in the world and just do not buy the crap that people tell me about how rodeo animals are treated humanely. It kills me to watch it on one level but at the same time this is THEIR culture, their way of life and no one is asking my opinion. If I don’t like it I can leave but I choose to stay and accept and drop my opinions as best I can while cheering for the bullriders and bronc riders and calf ropers.

    Sorry all for the change of topic! Hopefully there will be another opportunity to discuss this more fully.

  • HERVE ;))))))))))))))))))!!!

    “Bar none (if that’s ok with Bob, ahahaha)..”

    very funny!!! :))))

    no harm on that one Herve, world’s greatest dad/mom/brother/wife/husband/son/daughter, that’s one category i got no problemo with :))))))…..

    it’s only about photogs/artists/musicians/books/fill in the blank ;)))…just remember, I still DO agree (really did originally) with you that Patricia is Warrior=Generalismo! :))))

    and Lance is number 1 Cowboy! :)))

    cheers
    running
    bob

  • David B said “oh – and wear the suit you want to wear tomorrow, today.
    whether with work or with family.. it is happening now and waiting for either will lead to a let-down.”

    Wise words. And a lesson reinforced by my son, who was 4 at the time.

    He had just gotten a sheet of stickers of some type that he thought were very cool. Now, if I had suddenly been surprised by something that I thought were as cool as he thought those stickers were, I would have “saved” them for a good time for use…

    He took them, opened the package, and stuck the one he liked the best on my shirt, saying “here daddy, you wear that one, it’s the coolest”. And then he stuck another he liked on his own shirt, grinned, and skipped/ran out of the room….

    children: experts at living in the moment.

    Regarding snapshots, I am very glad I enjoy them, as that’s pretty much where I am in my photographic development at the moment :)

    good light to all,
    A.

  • hey herve.

    i can see what you mean.
    perhaps i am more sensitive – buying prams.. trying to get a book.. alot is going on.

    certainly agree on the point of starting out.. although when starting out it’s difficult to keep a relationship at all simply because of the random nature of what may happen once we fully commit to making ourselves available to work.
    money can be difficult and time as well.
    agreed.

    i’d like to use the over-mentioned ‘plumber’ analogy.. however this doesn’t really work anymore, with the changes to the industry over the years.. starting out must be as difficult as ever.

    so.. difficult time to think on this for me – pertinent post from el harvey ..

    it is interesting that women are expressing what they are expressing here.. it’s fantastic to read about people coping well.. perhaps even better.. now they have a family.
    thats going to be me i hope.. family stability.. companionship and seeing the world through little boys eyes.. it’s going to be remarkable i am sure.

  • andrew..

    thanks for the tail.. moments like that must be wonderful.. unprecedentedly humbling.

    living in the moment has been a necessary lesson to learn i have found.. instant decision and availability has been important, to say nothing about the actual clicking of the shutter.
    beate does it beautifully – having spent 10 years running a nursery.. i have done it through my work.
    baby boy will do it naturally..
    i think work will be better than ever.. more importantly i think free time spent dedicated to making a balanced, funny, good and healthy child will be time better spent than some of the more potion dependent ways i have coped with free time over the years.

    okay.. i’m going to be quiet for a while now.
    BIG UP YER KIDS xx

  • David,

    I’ve been reading your blogs for months now, but this is my first post. Coincidentally, I posted a blog entry yesterday about making time for family, specifically my 13 year-old daughter (http://www.maydayphotography.com/mayday/blog/Entries/2008/8/7_Making_Time.html).

    I’m brand new to the photo tribe, so I can’t say that I put my career on hold to have children or that I pursued my career first and waited to have children. I started young; I was 19 when my daughter was born. We kind of grew up together. I can’t imagine my life without her or my 9 year-old son. They inspire me in ways I never thought imaginable.

    So, I’m starting my career having never known what it’s like to be without children. I hope that makes me a better photographer, but ultimately a better human being.

    Thanks for this incredible collection of blogs and for the opportunity to share.

    Best,

    Roger

  • I always thought the equation was:

    1. become a photographer so you can
    2. get a woman and
    3. have babies

    …It hasn’t worked so far…

  • ALL

    flat out sick today, but had an unforgettable evening with Patricia, who is driving herself homeward..wish i had the strength to write more about our time together and to contribute to this beautiful thread, but for now I will say that P is a generous, whole, stunning woman..exactly as I imagined her from her words and images.

    Briefly, about children..before his trip to Italy, talked with DAH a bit about relationships, and for me I think some of what surfaced could be extended to the children conversation; essentially that we have ways of being as individuals. My way is ‘uber’ nurturer…and in an old fashioned sense, meaning I become very domestic and enjoy the role of taking care of the other..my main concern with me having kids is that I will go into overdrive and i will cease to see the importance of photography in my life, because I would find so much contentment and joy in the act of being mother, I may no longer have space or need of photography.

    I have spent a great deal of time caring for infants and working with young children, and I just don’t know if I could continue ‘working’ with my own children. It’s a serious concern, one that is with me daily..I feel like I need to be shooting NOW, but this is also the NOW for me to have a child.

    The words here from the fathers are good encouragement, but without being two much of a gender separatist, I have to say I believe there is a difference in what it means to be a working mother/father..for example, I’m sick today, so I couldn’t shoot. What if instead of a one day thing, that was 3 months of morning sickness? After that, what about having to haul the equipment around while pregnant, and having to rise to the needs of the shoot with swelling legs and falling blood sugar increasing fatigue? Obviously, one makes changes, adapts, but still.

    Then the months of sleepless nights, the breast feeding, and i know from experience that the first 6 months are amazing and I wouldn’t want to miss a moment. I need to read the words from the mothers here again when I am feeling better, but it seemed overall that the women here with kids had them first or aren’t ‘pushing’ the role of photography in their lives..please tell me if I am mistaken..

    Nothing is ruled out for me..I’m open, but I know it may mean taking a walk away from photography as I know it now..and to be honest, i am driven, and I have some goals, vague and intangible as they may be.. To me, there may be nothing more special or perfect than being a parent, and how could I ever allow photography to take a dominant role again? It’s a selfish thing, the way i am now with photography, and I do seek to be a balanced, selfless person in spite of that, but a child is a dependent, and I wouldn’t want to be selfish and give less than what is right and good..

    more later, maybe an all-out list of FEARS in regard to this

  • I read Erica’s words and see/hear/feel this strong, creative, open, honest, intelligent woman who happens to be one of the most gifted and committed photographers I know, and something deep inside whispers, “Stay true to your work for it is your work that is needing all of your generative energy, especially now.” I know it’s hard when you hear your biological clock tick-tick-ticking, but that is no reason to decide to have a child.

    I’ve never had a child, never even been pregnant for that matter. Yes, we wanted children in our younger years. Yes, it was hard for me when I entered menopause at the young age of 43. I had some grieving to do for what would obviously never be. But at 66, I see things very differently indeed.

    While my friends were birthing and tending children, I was birthing and tending my art. I was 32 when I entered art college to study fine arts. For the next ten years I lived, breathed, ate, slept my art, which involved painting, sculpture, mixed media and performance art. I showed, sold, wrote art reviews, collaborated with other artists to create environmental installations and “happenings.” I had a studio in a funky unheated space downtown where I spent hours every day. I was as driven about all of that as I am now about photography.

    OK. If I’d had children at home, do you think I would have taken this path? Not a chance. Maybe I would have dabbled in art, but, knowing me, I would not have had the time or energy available to become as serious and committed as I did.

    And now? Well, most of my friends are ga-ga over their grandchildren. Most of their discretionary time is spent baby-sitting, visiting, playing with, buying for the little ones whom they adore with a purple passion.

    And me? Well, most of you know where my time and attention goes! Forget grandchildren. I’ve got photography!

    Now everything I’m saying is all about me, not about anyone else. I’m sure there are women who can do it all. I’m just not one of them. And there is NOTHING I’d rather be doing with my life right now than EXACTLY what I’m doing. Hell, how many women in their 60s get to be called an “emerging” ANYTHING???

    And I want to say that Erica is an amazing woman, one whom I love and admire greatly. We sat and talked last night for HOURS and would still be there now if they hadn’t needed our table for a line of other folks! Here’s a portrait she took of me on the streets of Greenwich Village:

    http://www.pbase.com/windchimewalker/image/101389012

    Erica, the portrait I took of you was too blurry to post. Sigh. Feel better soon, sweet one.

    BYW I’m at a motel outside of Rochester, NY halfway through my 700-mile drive home. Passed through about six heavy showers today but they didn’t last long. All is going fine…

    Patricia

  • BOB – Thanks for the link , but somehow I can’t see LLoyd and I two stepping through the saltpans around Nui Dat – It’s the Elephant in the corner of the room in our family .
    But I began to see where he was comming from the more of the world I saw and how much the war and LLoyds reaction to comming home affected the whole family ,transience , divorce , separation.
    One thing he never did was take it out on us or Mum , in so many ways he was allways a kind and gentle Father to us when we were growing up , but he kept his shit tight,brought up his family while he was trying to make sense of the deaths of so many of his mates.
    The whole discussion about absence and familys comes to a head if one of the two are feeling marginalised ,taken for granted , not included – I know how lucky I am ( There’s a few dodgey birds in my past )I get the family , I get the photographic life -there are sacrifices ,cutting things short every now and then ,taking on work that you don’t like – I just don’t know about the prerequistite for being successfull????? is being selfish and driven – driven sure, but being selfish ?besides being a deeply unpleasant character trait too much self involvement is bloody well boring – Scuse me I gotta go rockpooling.

  • Just talked with my dear bud, Spencer. Oh my, you folks have a treat in store! He just gave me a preview of his Demolition Derby series and IMHO it is fabulous! Spencer has a unique eye, superb technical ability and his own artistic aesthetic that comes through in every shot. He’s still scanning his images but hopefully will soon post a link here. Besides being a wonderful photographer, Spencer is such a sweet man, and the PERFECT companion to see the City with…especially the East Village which I loved!

    I know this is totally off topic, but what can I say? I’m still full to overflowing with enthusiasm over my two magical days and nights in NYC! Big thanks to Spencer & Erica for making it so special.

    Patricia

  • Patricia–

    Awwwwww. I’m blushing…

    To All–

    Patricia has given me permission to post a few of the snapshots I took on my day with her. I realized after looking at them that she looks very serious. There was actually very little time during our afternoon that Patricia wasn’t smiling or laughing…

    http://www.spencerlloydphoto.com/patricia

    Enjoy!
    sl

  • GREAT PORTRAITS… SPENCER…!
    PATRICIA LOOKS SO PRETTY…
    peace..

    ps: i want to write SO MUCH… and share a lot…
    but i have to “WAIT”…
    There is some “stuff” i need to “share” with ALL…
    but i know.. its not the “right” time.. not yet…
    be back in a second !!…

    oh and about “babies”, “kids”,…”children” …!!!
    oh my , oh my…
    ok… be back in a second !!!

  • ERICA,

    I always enjoy reading you and what you have to say…I hope you will feel better tomorrow… Not easy to know sometimes what is right for oneself… I do hear what Patricia is saying. She is clearly whispering you some good advices…although, maybe I would whisper you something different…yet, I am no woman so I not sure I am the best placed to say anything….Having said this, I was touched by your words when you said that you “worry that you may find so much contentment and joy in the act of being mother that you may no longer have space or need of photography”…In my heart I would whisper Erica that if you know that being a mother is so important to you, then you ought to allow yourself to experience that joy… I think you should be optimistic here. I see no reason why having a kid would prevent you from being the amazing photographer that you will become and that you are already….The good news is that you are no war photographer Erica..you do not need the long exotic travels nor dangerous battlefields…As a matter of fact, you mainly photograph the community around you, next door, across the street…I remember David saying that Bruce Davidson did all of his amazing work and never left New York, all of this work virtually in his backyard… Look at a young photographer like Lauren Greenfield from VII… again she may be an exception but she is photographing the American culture, kids right here in the US where she lives and I recall reading that she has kids…. Who am I to say this and I hardly know you but I think you can do it all Erica !!!!!

    Eric

    PS: By the way, I am now almost one week late but as I have been away, I have an excuse. Happy delayed birthday Erica…

  • LANCE,

    Amigo…just spent some time looking at your “Thirst for Grit” essay. This is progressing well… I am sure you are eager to hear what the man thinks…. I particularly liked your closer shots/ portraits and would love to see more of these. I really liked picture 29 even though it could be something else than rodeo….

    Are you planning to carry on working this subject? Seems to be a topic that suits you well… By the way, as I went back to your site, I saw once more the colour work you had done in San Miguel…I tell you…I also very much like the color work you did…Have you stopped shooting colors for your personal projects?

    Eric

  • CATHY,

    Glad you enjoyed the portraits…You are absolutely right about how I felt and acted when watching these kids… I felt very uneasy shooting them when fighting and actually virtually took no pictures of them on the ring even tough clearly it would have been good in theory to have a few shots of them for this “very short” essay…

    How is your own work on Rodeo going? Are you shooting a lot? When will you share more with us?

    Cheers,

    Eri

  • Cool, Eric. In Thailand, they have tons of kids training too, girls too, in many Muay thai centers. I suppose there’s an interesting essay possible about kids striving to excel in such sports.

    But the story about parents pushing and pressuring kids, that makes me sick in my stomach. Sport wise, It seems very american, but maybe I am wrong.

    Patricia, are you playing “harmonica” in the first picture, or are you just realizing you forgot the battery spare for the Patmobile?

    :-)))))

  • Herve….
    sorry , but as Patricia’s “sensitive” brother…
    i dont “approve” the last comment about “spare battery for the
    whatevermobile”…
    peace

  • ALL … please read below ….
    how the CATHOLICISM IN MY COUNTRY…USA
    blames the ” Columbine massacre ” ON FRIEDRICH NIETZCHE… on ONE PERSON… one philosopher… and one
    philosopher ONLY… and it goes like this :

    “… The Children of Nietzsche

    by Roberto Rivera ( ????!!! )

    Really Enjoyable, Useful Commentary. Sign up for Catholic Culture Insights today!

    Few years ago, a pair of suburban teenagers named Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold turned the word “Columbine” into a synonym for “massacre.” In the year since the shootings, there has been no shortage of explanations for why two middle-class suburban kids would set out to annihilate their schoolmates.

    These explanations have focused on, to borrow terms from criminal law, means and motive. By means, I’m referring to the role that our nation’s gun laws may have played in the massacre. The past months have seen repeated efforts, at both the state and federal levels, to close what gun-control advocates maintain was a loophole that enabled the pair to arm themselves.

    By motive, I’m referring to things such as uncontrolled anger, bad parents, and bigotry. In other words, psychological factors.

    The Other Factor

    What’s noteworthy is the lack of attention given to the factor for which we arguably have the most evidence: the role popular culture, and the nihilism it breeds, played in turning suburban kids into monsters. If you’re looking for evidence for this contribution, you need look no further than what a December issue of Time magazine dubbed a “Special Report.”

    The report, which generated a lot of criticism from both the victims’ families and segments of the media, was based on a set of videos shot by Harris and Klebold just before the shootings. In these tapes, the duo swigged Jack Daniels, brandished their weapons, and tried to explain why they were about to do what they did. While the tapes had nothing to say about the role of guns—an issue I suspect we’ll never settle—they did a good job of undermining the psychological explanations proffered by the punditocracy.

    While Harris and Klebold were angry at the way they had been treated, you can’t label their anger as uncontrollable. On the contrary, it’s clear from watching the tapes that they had bided their time, waiting for the ideal moment to act.

    And while the pair’s performance on the tapes was filled with racial hatred and invective, it’s also clear that they were equal-opportunity haters. They hated everybody: athletes, minorities, Jews, and other whites.

    Well, how about their clueless parents? You know, the ones who were unaware of the bomb factory in the house? The pair absolves their parents. Klebold tells the camera, “There’s nothing you guys could’ve done to prevent this. . . .” He tells his mom and dad that they are “great parents,” and that he appreciates what they’ve done for him. As consolation, Harris offers a quote from Shakespeare’s The Tempest: “Good wombs hath borne bad sons.” They then say goodbye to their parents by saying, “It’s what we had to do. . . .”

    What the tapes do tell us about is the role that American popular culture played in shaping Harris’s and Klebold’s worldviews. I’m not talking about the attempt to place blame on movies such as The Matrix or The Basketball Diaries. The role played by popular culture was both subtler and more invidious.

    Take the name that Harris chose for his shotgun: Arlene. He named it after a character in Doom, his favorite video game. Doom is a violent and gory game where the strategy is simple: if it moves, shoot it. And in case anyone missed the reference, Harris told the camera that the “shooting [is] going to be like . . . Doom.”

    Can anyone seriously doubt the extent to which the hyper-violent world of video games had shaped the pair’s worldview?

    Not Merely Imitating

    An even more important indication as to how American popular culture shaped the pair’s understanding of the world can be found in their stated reasons for doing what they did. Harris and Klebold wanted the world to be clear on one point: They were not merely imitating other school shootings.

    Harris says that we should “not think we’re trying to copy anyone.” He and Klebold had thought of killing their classmates “before the [other school shootings] ever happened.” What’s more, their motivations were entirely different from the likes of Kip Kinkel in Oregon, or the shooters in Paducah, Kentucky, who, according to Harris, “were only trying to be accepted by others.”

    No, Harris and Klebold weren’t looking for acceptance. They were originals. They couldn’t be concerned with such trivial matters as whether people liked them or not, or even considerations of right and wrong. They were after much bigger game. They wanted to be remembered as “revolutionary” figures, people who did something that changed the world.

    And, finally there’s the tone of the tapes. The word that comes to mind is banal. Yes, Harris and Klebold are angry, but they also approach their intentions with a matter-of-fact attitude. They were clearly tired of life, and convinced that there was nothing worth living for. So, they reasoned, “why not stage our own Götterdämmerung [Twilight of the Gods]? At least we will be remembered for the audacity and originality of our final actions.”

    If there is a word to describe the pair’s “performance,” it’s Nietzschean. For instance, the pair didn’t deny that what they were about to do was wrong. They understood that their actions would bring grief, not only to the victims and their families, but to their own families as well. But that knowledge of right and wrong didn’t dissuade them, because they considered themselves as transcending such considerations.

    As Nietzsche might have put it, they considered themselves beyond good and evil. Likewise, their desire to be seen as doing something original brings to mind Nietzsche’s idea of the artist as a self-creator who is unconstrained by antiquated moral norms.

    The question is: How did Klebold and Harris come to fulfill the predictions of a philosopher who died a century ago? They may have read his work, but the most likely answer is that they absorbed Nietzsche—whom Harvard’s Harvey C. Mansfield calls “the philosopher of our times”—secondhand through our popular culture.

    Shows About Nothing

    And the best way to understand the influence of Nietzsche on popular culture is to read a new book by Thomas Hibbs, a professor of philosophy at Boston College. Shows About Nothing: Nihilism in Popular Culture from The Exorcist to Seinfeld (Spence Publishing, 1999) chronicles the trajectory of popular culture, in particular movies and television, over the past 25 years.

    According to Hibbs, the worldview that best characterizes contemporary movies and television is nihilism, which Hibbs defines as a “state of spiritual impoverishment and shrunken aspirations.” This nihilism grows out of the belief, unstated in the case of American culture, that God is dead. Not in the literal sense, but in what Hibbs describes as “the growing sense that no religious or moral code is credible.”

    This sense, which Nietzsche calls “pessimism,” is a “preliminary form of Nihilism.” Nihilism leads to the belief that all definitions of good and evil are “arbitrary,” which in turn “deprives us of any common vision.”

    As Hibbs tells us, Nietzsche foresaw two possible responses to the knowledge that God is dead. The first is a “despair” which leads to a “stagnation of the creative will.” The second is an embrace of “creative boldness” that declares its independence from outmoded notions of right and wrong. According to Hibbs, both responses are present in much of today’s television and movies.

    In the case of “creative boldness,” the past 25 years have witnessed the emergence of an unprecedented character whom Hibbs calls the “demonic anti-hero.” Examples of this type are Cady, the character played by Robert DeNiro in Cape Fear, and Hannibal Lecter, the role in Silence of the Lambs that won Anthony Hopkins his Oscar.

    Unlike the classic hero, or even the flawed hero of film noir, the demonic anti-hero revels in his freedom from moral restraints and invites the audience to celebrate his liberation. Recall Lecter’s last line in Silence of the Lambs. Looking at his old nemesis, he tells Clarice that “I’m having an old friend for dinner”—in other words, “I’m gonna kill him and eat him.” I bet you laughed. I did.

    The demonic anti-hero is the emblem of a worldview increasingly portrayed in movies where, as Hibbs writes, “ultimate justice is elusive, where we are tempted to see the underlying force as malevolent and punitive. . . . [This world sees] violence and ineradicable guilt as the underlying truth about the human condition.” In other words, no one cares, no one is in control, no one is innocent, and even if someone is, there’s no one around to vindicate his rights. This is the worldview not only of the two films I’ve already mentioned, but also of virtually every horror film, and of shows like Buffy the Vampire Slayer and The X-Files.

    Spiritually Impoverished Seinfeld

    The other response, that of “despair,” is subtler, but no less corrosive. As Hibbs’s subtitle tells us, this response is best embodied in the definitive comedy of the nineties: Seinfeld. Have there ever been four more spiritually impoverished people than Jerry, Elaine, George, and Kramer? Did you ever see four people who aspired to less?

    From the start, the writers of Seinfeld followed two important rules: no hugs and no learning. The result was a world without any pretense to virtue, or even sentiment. A world where earnestness was nowhere to be found and where the surface was all there was. In such a world the only posture that makes sense is detached irony, that is, to be like Jerry. (And like all successful shows, Seinfeld spawned its imitators. Shows like Friends are basically “Seinfeld lite.” They are trivial and superficial, but they lack the guts to go all the way and embrace the “no hugs and no learning” rule.) Which is exactly the kind of world you’d expect to find if God were dead and people didn’t have the ambition to be Hannibal Lecter.

    Since the shootings at Columbine, this trend has accelerated. If anything, the aspirations displayed in movies and television, especially those aimed at teenagers, have gotten even smaller. Shows like Dawson’s Creek and Popular depict a world where teenage preoccupations with sex and popularity assume mythic proportions. You can expect an endless run of movies aimed at teens where the raison d’être is getting laid in time for the prom.

    Meanwhile, the creatively bold crowd has come out with what may be the ultimate in demonic anti-heroes: Patrick Bateman, the protagonist of American Psycho, a film about a yuppie stock trader whose real passion is serial murder. The film, based on the controversial Bret Easton Ellis novel, purports to hold out Bateman as an object of loathing and disgust, but by making him rich, good-looking, and oddly charismatic, the odds are that audiences, especially kids, will respond to him just as they did to Hannibal Lecter.

    And even shows without any “objectionable” content—in fact, no discernable content whatsoever—such as Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? and its imitators, reinforce the nihilistic streak in popular culture. The audience is expected to passively watch a total stranger answer a series of questions, nothing else. In its own way, Millionaire, which abandons the pretense of plot and narrative altogether, is just as morally empty as Seinfeld.

    Two Choices

    The nihilism of popular culture matters because, in a world where the influence of institutions such as the family and the church has diminished, popular culture has become an important source of values for many kids.

    Which brings me back to Harris and Klebold. If what you watch and what you listen to leads you to believe that life is meaningless, then, as Nietzsche might have told you, you’ve got two choices: You can be Jerry Seinfeld or Hannibal Lecter. Which would you choose?

    Any discussion of the role of popular culture always produces the rejoinder: “I watched Seinfeld. I saw Silence of the Lambs. I’ve never even thought of harming my classmates.” That’s usually true, but it’s important to understand that the Nihilism in pop culture affects different people in different ways.

    Many people are temperamentally incapable of perpetrating violence. Instead, they manifest the effects by becoming depressed and indifferent. Or they adopt a posture of irony—what Hibbs might call “the Seinfeld syndrome”—where they embody the superficial and passive creatures, always seeking to be amused, whom Nietzsche called “the last man.”

    The antidote to nihilism is, of course, faith. And, in an ironic way, Harris and Klebold themselves proved how powerful an antidote this kind of belief is. When they stopped to ask prospective victims, “Do you believe in God?” it was as if they were saying, “If we did, we wouldn’t be here.” Even having embraced darkness, they recognized light when they saw it.

    And it’s this light that’s our best bet against what happened in Littleton, Colorado. In the end, believing in something—in particular, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ—is the best way to not succumb to the nihilism taught by shows about nothing.

    Roberto Rivera is a Fellow at the Wilberforce Forum at Prison Fellowship. In addition to Touchstone (“Darwin’s Brave New World,” in the September/October 1999 issue), his work has appeared in Books & Culture and the web magazine Boundless, where a shorter version of this article appeared.
    Copyright © 2000. The Fellowship of St. James. All rights reserved.

    This item 3479 digitally provided courtesy of CatholicCulture.org

    ANYWAYS… FUCK THE CATHOLICS … AND LETS GO BACK TO VENICE TO WATCH THE ” CHRISTIANS ATTACK ”
    once more… ( i know most of you already seen it.. but really, who cares… )
    so, once again:

    WEST vs EAST in ( where else )… venice, LA, CALIFORNIA…

    http://web.mac.com/innerspacecowpanos/%22MOVIES%22/West_vs_East_in_Venice….html

  • or …

    OBAMA…. BOB DYLAN…
    SUBLIME… or J. DEPP… HUNTER T…
    “fear & loathing…….”

    http://gallery.me.com/innerspacecowpanos#100115&view=mosaic&sel=0

    peace ( once more )

  • Kralingen Festival… year ???

    ” go chasing Rabbits ”

  • ok…
    “… dont do anything at all…”
    i warned you..

    don’t EVER DO cali mushrooms… from topanga… in topanga…
    coz it sounds like this:

  • kids? what a topic David :)
    as I am not married and have no kid I really don’t know what gonna happen for my work life when I’ll have responsibilities of a family life too. first thought is it could be destroying! but maybe not. it’s depended to my reaction but I couldn’t guess what it could be now. but I love having kids and after that to have grandchild :)

    I am thinking more and… funny but it seems my life is so depended to photography, I am with friends taking pictures I am in party taking pictures I am dancing but still taking pictures, I am in cafe taking pictures … my camera is every where!
    I really want that grandchild then I’ll remember to show a good reaction about having a child, better be a girl but it gonna fun to have a son too :) It’s not a post for me but you were wrong David seems so many photographer here have children and doing a great work too. very impressing

    Patricia I love love your picture from MEM :)) yes Herve I am with you. photographing women is more fun.

    http://noushin.noushinography.com/my_free_space.htm

    new pix in “my free space”. I did a mistake in developing my new negatives and it effected the quality of pictures in last ones …

  • ONZ is useless! Russia as a sole said veto in own case!
    I love russians and Georgians are our closest famili. But this is our history when big russia tread everything around who don’t want to be their slaves…
    Sad day today…
    we will see in what century we live now very soon…

    sad day my georgian friends…

  • patricia.. looking sharp.. nice work spencer..

    babies.. kicking..

    this thread really tapped into my fears of fatherhood, comming from where i have..

    it will all be fine.. i know it will.

    working hard as ever..

  • Panos,

    I love it. This time I completely followed your story and got it.

    And I love the switching back and forth not just east and west but black & white and color. I like your colors very much. B&W drew me in and color pushed me home.

    Lee

  • you shoot b&w David?! Only kidding :) I know you just converted your digi files. Maybe I have missed a post. . . but what about color vs. b&w for you?! I mean Koudelka claims he can’t shoot color and others like yourself, Webb, Bendiksen only shoot it. . . while Sobol carries on in b&w and on film no less!

  • I always think kids are easier than dogs at least you can take the kids on a plane (We have strict quarantine in the UK).

    I’m sure there are times when my 2 girls have a negative effect on my photography and visa versa but I’m just winging it like every one else.

    I wonder if one of the reasons why there are fewer women photographers at the top level (even though, from the look of this blog, they have far more talent) is that they realise children and family are far more important than a career or a few pictures. I think mums normally get stuck with more hands on child care which must make a difference.

    Erica you can have both its just very hard. I’m sure you’d be up to it. Much easier if you have a understanding fella and adoring grand parents just round the corner.

    Harry

  • I guess you’ve seen the news…

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/09/georgia.russia2

    “Georgia today declared itself at war as invading Russian forces said they were in control of the South Ossetian capital. Moscow claims heavy fighting has killed 1,500 people since Georgia began bombarding the separatist region on Friday and Russia responded with tanks, air raids and ground troops.

    Saakashvili accused Russia of being the aggressor, but the assault seemed timed to coincide with today’s launch of the Olympic games. “Most decision-makers have gone for the holidays,” he told CNN. “Brilliant moment to attack a small country.””

  • damn….!!!!!!

    RUSSIA… ???????? AGAIN ?????

    INVADING little COUNTRIES ????? fucking bullies !!
    still won’t learn ?????

    let’s hope that some YOUNG KOUDELKA,
    is right there right now in Georgia photographing the new
    russian invasion…
    just like Prague in 1968…
    once more..
    “CONGRATULATIONS” TO RUSSIA FOR THE “NEW” KILLINGS
    AND THE bloodbath that they create …
    bravo Russia…
    show us your “real” face once more…
    Russia still looking for NEW SLAVES…
    fuck em….

  • Lee,
    thank you super much !

  • @Panos: I think it’s pretty complicated. South Ossetia has independentist claims and it’s in Georgia. North Ossetia is in Russia. Situation in South Ossetia escales and Georgia starts to bomb it. Russia gets in.

    Many of those ex-soviet republics contain unrecognized countries and roughly drawn boundaries, plus ethnic minorities and different economic resources, so trouble is prone to abound!

  • GEORGA/RUSSIA/SOUTH OSSETIA:

    1) http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/08/09/world/20080809-GEORGIA_index.html

    2)http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/10/world/europe/10ossetia.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

    It is an horrendously complicated and ultimately profoundly tragic situation once again, much much of which has to do with Stalin’s mass forced migration of people and ethnicities…A sense of what’s going on in South Ossetia can be glimpsed if you read Kapucinski’s IMPERIUM….ironically, at the moment im reading Tom Bissels CHASING THE SEA about the Aral Sea disaster and Uzbekistan…..but much of these “countries” are not countries at all but regions defined and carved and created by Stalin, on top of which lay 100’s of years of ethnic and religious conflict centered around Christianity and Islam and Turk vs. russian ethnicities vs. other Caucasian ethnicities…it is so bloodly complicated…much of still which definies Russia (as in the nation, not her people) lay at the heart of what happen during the Golden Horde (when most of Russia was conquored and ruled by the Mongols)…their fear of invasion or losing parts of her body….the problem is that South Ossetia is dominated by Russian ethnic though it’s a part of Georgia: Georgian’s live there do (as do other ethnicities)….again: what is land, whose land is it…Russia clearly needs this as its relationship and access to the Caspian…by the way Gosprom has a pipeline there which is critical (my wife’s mom worked for 30 years and was a manager at gosprom)…so….once the south ossetians decided to revolt Georgia got incensenced, and mother russia came to the rescue of “her people”…

    marina and i were talking about it all day and im anxious to talk to her parents and dima this morning to see what’s being broadcast in Moscow….

    will keep u up to speed…

    BUT, if you want an inkling into all this read IMPERIUM….

    and were about to go to armenia, georgia, azherbajiani next year (fingers crossed) to visit and hope to do a photo projec there, Caucuses, central asia, etc…

    As Marina said, in the end, the people that always always suffer are the civilians…not the government or the armies…

    running
    b

  • GEORGA/RUSSIA/SOUTH OSSETIA:

    1) http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/08/09/world/20080809-GEORGIA_index.html

    2)http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/10/world/europe/10ossetia.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

    It is an horrendously complicated and ultimately profoundly tragic situation once again, much much of which has to do with Stalin’s mass forced migration of people and ethnicities…A sense of what’s going on in South Ossetia can be glimpsed if you read Kapucinski’s IMPERIUM….ironically, at the moment im reading Tom Bissels CHASING THE SEA about the Aral Sea disaster and Uzbekistan…..but much of these “countries” are not countries at all but regions defined and carved and created by Stalin, on top of which lay 100’s of years of ethnic and religious conflict centered around Christianity and Islam and Turk vs. russian ethnicities vs. other Caucasian ethnicities…it is so bloodly complicated…much of still which definies Russia (as in the nation, not her people) lay at the heart of what happen during the Golden Horde (when most of Russia was conquored and ruled by the Mongols)…their fear of invasion or losing parts of her body….the problem is that South Ossetia is dominated by Russian ethnic though it’s a part of Georgia: Georgian’s live there do (as do other ethnicities)….again: what is land, whose land is it…Russia clearly needs this as its relationship and access to the Caspian…by the way Gosprom has a pipeline there which is critical (my wife’s mom worked for 30 years and was a manager at gosprom)…so….once the south ossetians decided to revolt Georgia got incensenced, and mother russia came to the rescue of “her people”…

    marina and i were talking about it all day and im anxious to talk to her parents and dima this morning to see what’s being broadcast in Moscow….

    will keep u up to speed…

    BUT, if you want an inkling into all this read IMPERIUM….

    and were about to go to armenia, georgia, azherbajiani next year (fingers crossed) to visit and hope to do a photo projec there, Caucuses, central asia, etc…

    As Marina said, in the end, the people that always always suffer are the civilians…not the government or the armies…

    running
    b

  • Ultimately, again I am depressed by Russia’s reaction…but, I am also gravely saddened by Georgian reaction too and the inability to Georgia and Russia to reconcile this with the South Ossetians….utltimately it is a combination of hegemony (russia, governmentally , needs to control all that she sees as parts of her) and relationship to land (georgian land) and power (the land is econcomically strategic and important for both russia and georgia)….

    in the end, it just crushes the heart….both government’s spin is, as always, depressing, and cannot begin to articulate the suffering that all the civilians are enduring, the georgians, the russians, and the other ethnicities thate live in this tiny and remarkably people piece of land….

    depressed

    b

  • Joni

    Many of this “ex-soviet repulics” was independent coutries many centuries. I could agree with that there is just “difficult” ethnic situation if I don’t know how russia see everything around. russia have only one rule “you are with us or against us”. After five centuries of wars their goverment don’t know how to stop treat small countries as a Ownership or property. I don’t understand why geaorgia start shoot to ossietia autonomy, but I know that georgia could have no problems with separatist if russia not sending them weapon or prompt to fight.
    The same “problem” russia have with chechenya or ukraine, lithuania, or Estonia. In this countries lives many of russians citizens but this countries could exist only beacuse their are closest to eu than georgia and chechenya are.
    We as a nation just love russia nation, but we will never understand why russian govermant just have to be “World-power agressor”. We have very bad relations with russia mostly because russian govermant always try to treat poland as a servant or enemy because we say “good bye” in 89.

    I apologize for this politycal commnent and like I said I love russian nation…
    but my heart just crying because it proves that we live in middleages still. where strobger take everything.
    this is sad day…

  • @marcin: yes, many of them have been independent countries before the ussr or before russia, I’m not arguing on that for sure.

  • PANOS and DAVID
    Yes we have a young Koudelka there, a friend, Olga, David you know her, you met her in Oslo. I was a little bit worried for her she was there to work on a project since one month, and already moved to the war zone but I just received an email that everything is Ok.

    ERICA
    you always have to pursue your best dream, whatever it is, also if I think you are strong enough to reach more than one!
    It easy for me to say that.. I don’t have children… :)

    MARCIN
    about your question in the last post on the scanner if you buy by ebay from U.S. to an european country you have to pay taxes. You can arrange without, loosing the Europen warranty. But be careful because for having a present (and it was half a present!) from N.Y now I have a SIGMA DP1 broken after two weeks and serious problem in reparing or having one running back… :(

  • Joni,
    Marcin,
    Bob, Marina…
    Thank you for the info..
    Unfortunately yes.. It is a complicated
    situation.. It is ridiculus ( on my part )
    to take places.. but I couldn’t help it..
    But what a coincidence..
    Olympics/peace/ disrespect…war..
    Oh my…
    Peace

  • Laura,
    Thank you..
    OLGA..
    Shoot shoot shoot shoot

  • the last politycal comment,

    Some time ago I read in polish newspaper interview with china’s oppozitionist about suffering of china nation, who said that he feels sad for suffering of Dalai Lama but for him tibet is terythory of china because in tibet is so many empty places and chine need free places for their people.

    For me this is synonim of politycal amnesia of our whole world because we all want to talk about worldwide freedom and peace, about world’s antiwar society, but this is only smoke nothing real, because mostly there are only business, anger and small bloody human nature. There always will some free space needed and there always will be some hundreds years old stuff unfinished.
    I am angry for georgia’s president and sad when I see russia.
    There is many conflicts around the world and it prove only that even here in poland in france in geramany or japan there are people who wnat hang people on trees and cut their bodys on parts for fun with furia in eyes. They need only freedom, free space like in serbia, somalia, darfur, middle east, cambodia ect ect…
    even so wonded nation like jews disgrace themself as a agressor.
    I’ve seen this wall…
    But maybe it sould be like that?
    yes, probably it should be!
    Is’nt it?

  • Laura

    Thanks for info. I will probably ask someone from my friends who will go to us to buy me this scanner. But this will be at the end of year with good winds. Now I want buy some more films and shooting shooting shooting…
    scanner must wait for better times.

    peace for all

  • Russia:

    I think it all has to do with Russia showing the lean years are over: “we” are back, and meaner than ever, if needed.

    Ominous: the excuse for invading is the same Hitler used for invading Chekoslovakia. Protecting one’s blood/nationals.

    The 2 biggest empires of the last century have populations electing bullies and war-mongers as supremo. Just reaping what we sow.

    China is going to start looking like the peace dove very soon (save a few “details”). Funny world….

  • Basically, I want to have babies, but the next thing is the fear about the ability to raise and educate the children.

    With the commitment for being a photo journalist, it would be a choice for not being rich, it’s a choice for being rich with lessons. I haven’t seen a rich photo journalist in my country, Indonesia. The value of a photo journalist is not much, and with the development of digital photography, it’s become less. Some of the photographers have unhealthy competition with each others, and the value of photographer in front of the community decreased since most of us behave like gunmen pointing their gun ignoring the feelings of the subject. The subject of photo would only be an object. And therefore, the photo journalist are not really well paid, because of the competition and the decreasing values.

    The inflation grows and grows every time. How should I feed a baby with a monthly wage of $180 (wage for a photographer in a local newspaper)? And later to send them to a school?

    The second thing is: could I be a good father when I’m always away when my children need me?

    Maybe other photographers from Indonesia have another point of view…just correct me if I’m wrong.

    and thanks to David and the other members of this forum for sharing their thoughts.

    regards,
    suryo

  • PS: I have still no children…

  • david,

    great post. i think this is a topic that could go on and on for some time with much insight from many people. lots of people have their own views on it and many have different “relationship” status… i myself have always believed that you should find someone who lets you be you.

    look at rebecca and alex webb. they have it… ed kashi and his wife have it as well… ed’s wife is said to be his secret weapon and rebecca edits most of alex’s work with him. its hard to find someone lie this. a team… a powerhouse … someone that supports you no matter what and wants what you want just as bad… but this is always hard to find.

    when children come into play then its different… i remember christopher morris speaking in new york and getting very emotional over shooting wars with his children still at home… i was very moved by this because chris was making a very open decision to stop photographing wars and take more time to be with his family as he felt it was more important to him that he be home.

    its interesting as well how this can change and or benefit work in some way… being home and photographing different things can help you grow in new directions… new styles… things you never thought or saw before…

    but i am young… so what do i know…

  • Marcin–

    Can you explain what you meant in this statement: “even so wonded nation like jews disgrace themself as a agressor”

    sl

  • Mike B, you know a lot. Having grown children with their own kids has enlightened me on the subject of relationships with offspring. And how your work fits into the equation. Photography came into my life late, after my children were grown, but I worked hard when they were young.

    In retrospect would they have been better off if I had stayed home and played house and daddy went off to work every day? No. Because I would have been so bored I would have probably opened up my own personal opium den. Your work is as much a part of you as your family. The trick is to find a balance; and it isn’t by one person in the relationship devoting their whole life to the pursuit of the other’s dream.

    It is a tightrope act and we come into this world ill equipped to perform. Children are so important, as are parents. In the family is where ethics and cultures of nations are built.

    When families recognize the joy and fulfillment of working as a cohesive unit they prosper. When too much emphasis is put on one individual, such as a dad who is always gone due to his work, then the family suffers–regardless of the worthiness of what keeps his away.

    This is true of the larger family, nations and their governments. The irony of China’s display in the opening ceremonies is evidence of the breakdown of a society and makes me wonder about the personal lives of China’s citizens–how they find a balance with family with such a burden on their shoulders.

    Lee

  • Spencer

    Wounded nation. Victim has changed in aggressor, too fast to easy…
    Yes difficult ethnic area, but out of border of undertsanding. Closed circle…
    ok. too many politycal comments.
    Time to disappear.
    cheers

  • lee,

    thanks for your post. i know what i know i guess… and yes the work is as much a part of me as my family is. i am only 22 so i do not have any real expirence with relationships… at least i dont think so… not enough to be giving advice… so i can only give my thoughts on the subject. however i have seen allot and from seeing i have learned allot… what to do… not to do… if that makes sense… so i try to make the best decisions that i can with what i have.

    as for china… i think allot more is going on that we do not know about there… i was reading a newsweek article that said we (the united states) are over 2 trillion dollars in debt to china for funding for the war… i think allot is going to happen in the next while… and russia just makes me depressed…

    by the way… i think we met at a workshop with david in mexico… san miguel de allende… i hope i spelled that right… i was the youngest one there… i think i was 18 at the time…

  • LAURA, PANOS and I answered this question [of marriage + kids] emphatically when it popped up in a previous post several months ago. Rather than repeating sentiments previously (+ passionately!) shared, I will second ERICA’s response, as I am sailing in the exact same boat and am not sure what to do either. Not that an opportunity has presented itself (as I feel that the majority of the people I meet can’t wrap their head around what I’m shooting for, literally and figuratively), but I am looking forward to having a partner (and little partnerettes) in crime. With the right person, I believe the answers will become obvious. :))))))))))))

  • ANNA
    yes I remember that. We also thought it was an interesting topic for a post. And that there were different answers from men or women. But if I tell that I generalize too much. There are different situation. is difficult to grow up children if you work.. if you’re alone, if you in general don’t earn too much as Suryo correctly said, if your family, parents etc.. are far from, …if you’re not enough.. committed :), if your healt is not going well, if .. …. but I can think about at least a couple of friends in all that situation that are wonderful mamma and papà anyway!
    I decided not to have, for a lot of reason and I’m peaceful about that.
    I also said that is difficult to go on with a relationship.
    But difficult is not impossible.
    Have a nice saturday evening!

  • being Natural, as Jack London would put it.
    I have a 15 year old daughter. its not been easy, but seems easier than some relationships I’ve been in.
    I was pretty fortunate in that I could work around my job and school and caring for my daughter, 15 years ago rent was considerably less and my over head was easy to manage, now on the other hand things are more expensive and I think it would be tough being a single parent in this economy.
    hey at least we are not subjected to forced abortions and illegal children like in some countries.
    anyone watching the olympics?

  • worbetangell,

    you are more than right. in some countries it is a much much differnt situation. i think we need to celebrate that fact that we are more than lucky to be able to share ideas and thoughts freely amoung eachother and as well have families with out the worry of war or injustice… i think it is fair to say that we have won the lottery in a way… to be living were we are living and not having to worry about life or death…

  • David,

    Once again you have raised a topic that is very relevant to many young photographers, and perhaps a few that are more mid career, such as myself – my 41st birthday is just a few weeks away.

    I have been a working photographer for 18 years and my work has taken me around the world. Five months ago my partner Diana gave birth to our first, and likely only, daughter Molly. She is a happy, healthy, robust child – for which we are most grateful – and she has injected a new energy into my work.

    My work does not take me to conflict zones, and my travels can vary in length from a few days to several weeks so we shall see how that plays out – since Molly’s birth I have only been away for a week or two at a time. I will say that it is our intention, whenever possible to travel together to the places I will be working, and to share the experiences – especially when my projects involve cultural documentary work, which as she gets older, I hope will give her an education that extends well beyond the classroom.

    In the five months since Molly was born, and including documenting the week leading up to her birth, and her birth, I have made well over 1000 photographs of her. These images have pushed my way of seeing further and the results are translating into my professional work with exciting results.

    Currently I am working on a project photographing in First Nations communities around British Columbia, and next week I will be back photographing in the maternity ward – as well as the ER and Trauma units at my local hospital… in both cases my vision for these projects has evolved as a direct result of having Molly in my life.

    Perhaps I am fortunate that I have already had 18 years to establish a career without having to consider the needs of a baby or a child, but there is no question for me, that all though it means more work, having Molly at this point in my career is a blessing.

    A short multimedia Molly’s Story is available for viewing on my web site.

    QG

  • Mike B, I do remember you. I will get the photos out from then and find you again.

    At first I thought you were the kid that did the work on the skateboarders but that was in Santa Fe. What was your subject in Mexico?

    Lee

  • Mike B,

    Forgot there were no subjects really. It was photo shoots they took us to like the bull fighter training ranch…

    Lee

  • WROBERT

    I’m an Olympic junkie. I was a gymnast growing up + at UCLA and have played my share of beach volleyball since (though I’ve been off the sand for the past year nursing a shoulder injury)… so I am glued to the TV when those two sports come on. Go Kerry Walsh! Kerry is seated to win another gold in beach vb and is one of the nicest + most humble people I’ve ever known. I love listening to the athletes’ stories + their ways of overcoming the challenges they’ve encountered.

    Will you come out and shoot with Panos and me one of these days?? It would be nice to meet you.

    LAURA

    Yes, interesting to read the posts in response to this [baby] thread — the replies from the guys and girls are very different. Guys are concerned with being away too much/too long. Girls are concerned with being sidetracked completely from the work. It’ll be especially tricky for me, as I have a heart for the developing world, which is where I have been working to spend more time. I have come to realize that I am in control of so so much of my life, while at the same time, I am in control of nothing. Such a strange dichotomy. If the RIGHT opportunity presents itself (a guy who is interested in sharing these experiences with me/a family), I’m confident I’ll know it when I see it… Otherwise, I dig what I am doing!

    … Yikes, I cringed after writing the last sentence. It WOULD be much sweeter sharing these experiences with someone who enjoys being there as much as I do!!! I think I write what I write as a way of dealing with what I don’t have, even though it scares the beejeebers out of me to consider juggling both.

    DAVID B.

    «wear the suit you want to wear tomorrow, today»

    LOVE IT.

  • QUICK NOTE

    I don’t know the details, but if you are in college..check out

    http://silversalts.org/

    for those of you working with traditional b&w methods

  • a while back someone wrote about the difference between men and women (fathers vs. mothers) as to the responsibilities, or rather, the different perceptions/attitudes toward this question….im not sure, in this day and age, that that actually applies, for for the families that still cling to older ideas of family…marina and i share equally in the responsibility of the raising of our son and more than that share equally in the sacrifice of photography: in other words, all the times we want to shoot, or travel, or develop or print or buy film, whatever, that gets back-burnered because of family or money or things attendant to the raising of a child…though i make more $$ (and this is depressingly small amount by n.american big-city standards) it is only because we chose as a family to make certain decisions…my salary as a teacher (with the hope of photographic/writing augmentation) would be a primary income while marina’s income (from her job and photography) another addition, but ultimately there is no division of responsibility (materially or otherwise), and photography as often had to take a back seat…and so too income….

    the fact is that both of us are fortunate in that we see both our practice as parts of the wholeness of our family, seldom pushing one or the other to the fore of center stage…

    mike’s anecdote of Morris decision is an important and salient one for both of us too…both of us have changed what and where we shoot because of family obligations and family decisions…at first this was a difficulty both of us struggled with and later, one simply acknowledges and (hopefully) grows to understand that the rhyme of one’s life is the same musical skeleton that defines all the living notes of it, the everyday shit and the artistic shit…most of the struggle we’ve endured has to do with material questions, particularly as to how our son deals with this living in a city and a culture that values and promotes material accumulation, promotes values as defined by material and societal success (neither or which marina or i have nor crave), struggle with his feelings of inclusion amid friends and peers who all live him homes while he lives in a small 2 bedroom apartment, struggle with the fact that not everyone goes on family trips to disney world or can afford to go to the cineplex everweek…fortunately, we seemed to have been blessed, as for the most part Dima has peeled away most of the material worries he had as a young boy (the desire to have cool/hot expensive sneakers or to live in a cool house or not ot have parents who budget and struggle over groceries, etc)……as we’ve simplified our life and focused more each other, on the simple expressions of living as a family, his fears (mostly) seem to have lessened (though he still wants a house ;))) )….

    when i shoot something, i still use film (as does Marina) and i must make a calculated decision about what i can afford as both a photographer (to buy, to complete) and as a husband and a father (budget)…sometimes on my bad days it aggrieves but mostly i feel fortune that i must accept and shoot within the limitations i have as a person…Bones of time, in total, is only 12 rolls of film….the story on Immigrant Students for David’s EPF last year was only 2 rolls…from this kind of austerity, including the austerity of time when i can shoot, married with my own sense of “how” to photograph has, i hope, just made me more creative with time and tools and availability….

    much of the photographic world, like much of the western world (o god, please forgive me the upcoming gross generalization) swims in a n ocean of access……access to unlimited shoots (digital, innumerable frames), access to money for traveling, projects, jobs, workshops, festivals, time…access to things that much of the rest of the world doesn’t…in a stupid sense, i am happy to have to work under the major constrictions that define my and marina’s life….

    in this sense, we are no different from the majority of people and how most people simply struggle from day to day to make ends meet and to countenance what and how it is they can live their lifes amid the silent shadows of distress and doubt….

    one thing i have, the greatest fortune, is that, my world is as resplendent as the buildings of Sammarakind because of the presence of my wife and son…and that means more to me than any photograph or book i may produce…for that keeps, late at night when the world is asleep and wrecked, the wolves from the forrest at bay….

    running
    b

  • BOB – You should move to Darwin , I havent worn shoes for a fortnight!
    I can’t recognise the old gender roles anymore ,in Jude and Mine or any of our Pals , everything is meshed , roles merge -still can’t breast feed tho and havent reached the expensive sneaker stage -Lucky to live in the tropics where we can live the dream of being barefoot forever.
    I think often about the accessability factor , anyone can go out and take a proffessionally exposed and crafted photo representation of whats in front of them , sometimes the accessibility factor rel;some genius that may have been stymied by the learning of light , silver , chemical alchemy -sometimes it just produces shit!
    But the key in the whole game is You and all your baggage , if you can turn all the rantings , , chinks and nicks into some sort of pphotographic output ,then you have a voice – And You My brother, do exactly that!

  • ELIZABETH, Your work is stunning! It is powerful and inspiring. (read thought provoking in an art sense) It is the trace and allegory work that I like the most.

    In what part of the world are you?

    Ciao

    Michael

  • Ok, Bob. . . Koudelka has said that at times he had to shoot with stolen 35mm movie film. . . maybe it’s time to switch to digital?! A lot easier when there’s no scanning and spotting involved, ultimately a lot cheaper and quicker.

  • Also, Bob, I assume you have submitted writing samples to The New Yorker Magazine before?

  • i think the comments are coming around to a point which is more comforting, on balance, regarding work and children..

    so.. if we’re going to lead by example and urge our children to live their dreams, lets live our dreams and feed them inspiration..

    so.. some david bowie..

    ”We bought a lot of things to keep you warm and dry
    And a funny old crib on which the paint won’t dry
    I bought you a pair of shoes
    A trumpet you can blow
    And a book of rules
    On what to say to people when they pick on you
    ‘Cause if you stay with us you’re gonna be pretty Kookie too

    Will you stay in my Lovers’ Story
    If you stay you won’t be sorry
    ‘Cause we believe in you
    Soon you’ll grow so take a chance
    With a couple of Kooks
    Hung up on romancing

    And if you ever have to go to school
    Remember how they messed up this old fool
    Don’t pick fights with the bullies or the cads
    ‘Cause I’m not much cop at punching
    Other people’s Dads
    And if the homework brings you down
    Then we’ll throw it on the fire
    And take the car downtown”

  • David,

    I wpuldnt give up my family for a career. Maybe because I dont have a “career” but I think my family is the best thing that ever happened to me. And they are a good subject for photos anyway:)

    Herve,

    I cant agree with you on the snapshot thing. Or maybe on the snapshot aestehtic. I love it. I think that snapshots are easily photography as they are nothing if not honest. And some of the best stuff around is snapshots. I read Sobol did the whole Sabine project on a small point and shoot as snapshots. Billingham did his work on his family as snaps, cheap film, printing, even the typical snapshot “mistakes” Im trying to channel the snapshot look in what I do with my project. Including the mistakes associated with it (harsh flash, oof, etc)

    Re:Russia

    It makes me laugh and also cry when I hear Russians claim the role of peacekeeping. A country that has for centuries attacked its smaller neighbors, killed off millions of people, moved entire nations and subjugated others….I have no willingness to accept Russian claims of anything peaceful in their motives. The man running their country is a criminal, hardened KGB murderer. Russia never had peaceful intentions and never will.

  • As a photographers, we just need life around us.. if you are ready to take care of you, you can take care of everything.

    I miss you, David.
    cheers,
    Paula Cinquetti

  • from SEAN GALLAGHER
    ……………………………………………………………………………………….

    “…Dear All,

    Re:Family
    I think this is an issue that every photographer faces at different times in their lives and deals with in completely different ways. The trend seems to be that it is difficult to balance a (traveling) photography career and have a successful family life but then I have met and read about very successful photographers who juggle and balance everything. Personally, when I was 18, I thought by the time I was 28 I’d definitely be ready for kids, or even have them already, but now I’m 28, I’m thinking I’ll be ready when I’m about 38!

    Re:Family/Life/Kids in China
    Family in China has a completely different dynamic to that in the west. China’s one child policy has thrown many a social issue into the mix an hence family life is a little different. If you have any interest in the life of children, families, the school system etc please watch this wonderful program by the BBC on school elections in a Chinese school

    Re:Olympics
    Anna, I have to admit I am also an Olympic/Sport junkie and am glued to the television watching every random sport I can get a glimpse at. I just watched Holland win the women’s 4 x 100m freestyle relay final and found myself just being really happy for the Dutch. Random..but that’s why I love the Olympics.
    If anyone is interested, I’m shooting around the Olympics, focusing on the fervor and excitement amongst the Chinese public whilst the games is going on. I’m updating it throughout the games and distributing it to my agencies. At the moment there are a few images in my archive but I’ll hopefully turn it into a small feature by the end. If you’d like to see it evolve, please keep an eye on it.

    http://archive.gallagher-photo.com/gpgs.aspx?pgid=18009645&e=0&p=0

    Best to everyone,
    Sean…”

    ________________________________

  • lee,

    sorry for the delay in reply… i have been working on a new project and its been quite time consuming… yes we did meet in mexico. i was photographing skateboarding at the time… but it then evolved into more “the life of” the skateboarders witch i liked more. the magazine did not.. so i moved away to cover more stories in a reportage style. but m mexico stuff is on my site.

    how are you? mexico was all loose… and it was all open… we had organized shoots.

  • davin,

    i think if bob ever switched to digital…. that would be much the same as larry towell switching to digital… the man is a film guy… or so i think… i could be wrong…

    bob… tea or coffee this week? when you have time let me know.

  • Off topic for just a moment: does anyone know what’s going on with LS? I havent been able to log in for the past three or four days.

  • AKAKY,

    you must click on “Click here to reset your password.” when passowrd will be changed you must use it as you password all the time. I don’t know why but when I want change my password it just not work, nothing happen. I am using now password wich been send to me.

    This is not first time and not last I suppose.

    peace

  • RAFAL

    cant agree with you on the snapshot thing. Or maybe on the snapshot aestehtic.
    ————–
    Rafal, you misread me. I was talking about what I feel around me, not my opinion,even asked: who loves their snapshost TOO… (meaning like me)

    But I really meant snapshots, everyone’s snapshots, not snapshots books/essays, or used as an essaying technique, a concept or a better way to tell a story. this is fine there too, but a different topic, IMO.

    One of the defining mark of the common man’s snaphot is that they are always single shots. You can take one after the other, same event, but they stay single shots, and people show them as single shots. This is also the same quality David brings to his blog snaps, BTW, and a perfect example of what i mean.

    Also, to paraphrase David, If all it took was taking snapshots, we’d all be inducted into Magnum like Sobol (not all his shots are snaps, though, IMO).

  • something to look at on a rainy day…..

  • sean good to hear from you and panos thanks for posting this. its great to see it!

    i was wondering how sean was doing while in china. must be busy there with the olympics… probably more cameras there than any were else right now.

    panos… i have not talked to you since the festival… how are you?

    sean i hope you are well man.

  • Mike B,

    I am good. I remember you now. Spending a year (1/2 over already) recovering from a divorce and preparing to live part time on the mainland. Working on an essay that is very personal and waiting on my Mac tower to come back from the shop.

    Other than that just hangin.

    Lee

  • lee,

    sorry to hear things have been a bit rough… but we all need to be shaken a bit i think… reminds us of what we have. i hope things get better for you. i am working on a personal project as well.

    shooting lots of work as well. not much work here but i am getting more…. slowly… staying busy…

  • Mike B,

    I’m good. Thanks.

    Just looked at your work. I am having a disconnect between the young man I met and the work on the dead can dance. Chilled me. Compels me to look yet I shudder.

    Lee

  • CHINA TODAY..
    (in the meantime…. today : )

    “…11 killed in China’s Xinjiang attacks
    18 hours ago
    BEIJING (AFP) — The death toll from bombings and the aftermath in China’s northwestern Xinjiang province on Sunday rose to eleven, with five injured, state media said.
    Ten attackers and one security guard died in the attacks, which started when bombers drove a tricycle laden with explosives into the yard of a police station in the remote city of Kuqa, Xinhua news agency said.
    Two police officers, two civilians and a security guard were also injured, Xinhua said.
    Police said they were aware of 12 bombings in the city, according to Xinhua…”

    GEORGIA in the OLYMPICS… TODAY…

    “…The decision, which was announced following a meeting between the Georgian Olympic Committee and the IOC this morning, comes after bombing attacks by Russian jets following the invasion of South Ossetia, the breakaway region of Georgia.
    IOC communications director Giselle Davies said: “I can confirm the decision of Georgia’s national Olympic committee, athletes and officials, supported by their government, that they will continue their participation at the Olympic Games here in Beijing…”

    BACK IN HISTORY..
    IN ANCIENT GREECE… IN OLYMPIA…
    ALL COUNTRIES WOULD STOP “ANY WAR”… TO PARTICIPATE AND HONOR
    “PEACE”… BECAUSE THAT WAS IT ( the olympic games ) ALL ABOUT…: “PEACE”…
    motherfucking peace…

    today.. in the year of 2008, we have to deal with a country ( mighty RUSSIA )
    that
    ATTACKS AND INVADES ( 1968-Prague style ) a small country…
    as a “peacekeeping” operation !!??????
    same shit, different day…..

    Think about it… and Georgia resists…
    still participating in the Olympics.. still believing… still hoping…
    more people died in Georgia today… literally…

    peace

  • Off topic..
    god bless Bernie Mac…
    have a nice travel
    peace

  • Off topic 2

    I feel that i’m missing my buddy ANTON…
    hey ANTON,
    i just poured a “SLOEBER ALE”…
    just for you… ( and me )…
    peace

    and again…
    pleaseeeeeeeeeee RUSSIA, please i love you… the most beautiful
    people… please, please , please…
    withdraw your TROOPS… stop bombing civilians …
    south Ossetia is evacuated already…
    please go back home…
    f****g please !
    go back home…
    watch some olympics… watch some porn… get involved….
    do something… but plaaaaeeeeeeese !!!!
    stop the “massacre”…
    do it for the “greek olympian spirit”….
    please

    ok:…
    Vampires are up…
    Rushing to Venice Beach !!!!!
    peace and love to all of you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)))))))))))

  • Panos,

    I have problems watching these games this year due to all the war going on. So many people with so many agendas with so many bombs and blood and guts. I don’t think they know the word please anymore. Or thank you. Or excuse me I’ve made a mistake. Or you first. Or that’s ok I think different that is all.

    Maybe we all get a tattoo with peace as the subject…..

    Lee

  • hey panos!

    just got back… thanks for the message… MISS YOU TOO… Sloeber is quite good.. strong too, i think :-)

    hey hey ALL…

    damn missed a lot here again… so many wonderful images and words added, how can one keep up…

    about the work&family part: my friends all tell me i’m lucky, that i can go for anything i like becaues i’ve no strings attached… but i don’t feel like i’m “lucky” or so… sure yes it might seem like someone in my situation is able to make ‘bigger’ decisions more easily, but truth is… ALL big decisions are made easily… i mean when i look back at all the big moments that profoundly changed my life… in retrospect… they were all little moments at the time: “oh let’s buy a 916 ducati and see what happens” “oh lets start up a company” “political philosophy sounds cool, lets master in that” “oh lets rent a house with way too many friends and do lots of parties” “oh lets go live in …” “oh let’s talk to her anyway” “oh who is this david guy, hey let’s sign up for a workshop, i might even get accepted”

    and the list goes on :-)

    all these moments were little sparks of the moment, little decisions made barely with me knowing that i was making them, one hundred percent with the heart, and yet never hurting my close family in the process (i think).

    counting my blessings here :-)

    ====

    oh and yes: busy researching the skippas project, but i can’t stand not shooting… there was a street theatre festival here in my home town this weekend, so i went out there, walked up to a spanish/french/belgian street performance group and asked if i could take pictures of them preparing, warming up and performing… as usual, i have trouble with my edit, so i’m asking you guys to help… what do you think of the images? i tried to tell a quasi linear story (warm up, performance, break down) but i don’t know if the rhythm is any good. and of course i’d love feedback about the images themselves: any images standing out? any i should leave out?

    http://www.antonkusters.com/acrobats

    the sad thing about this performance is that they had to stop halfway through when it started to rain… way too dangerous on cobblestones… so understandably they were really disappointed… and they couldn’t repeat the show as they had to leave for their next gig in strasbourg. so most of my images, ironically, are about the warming up and the cooling down, not of the actual performance, which only lasted about a minute…

    all comments welcome…

    peace
    anton

    PS patricia LOVE the tattoo… mine’s a sun… will show it to you one day :)

  • HELLO ALL….

    my apologies for being “off” for so long….

    i am just now back in New York after a very very intense week with my students in Italy…i had very limited net and phone access and only had time for the one post which i had to do in the 15 minutes before the net cafe doors closed for the day…hence, the mis-spellings, clipped writing etc…

    i will go back to “xxx” and catch up with the links and comments i missed there and also read everything here as well just as soon as i possibly can…

    by the way, speaking of catching up on reading, my in-flight book for my round trip to Tuscany was Jared Diamond’s “Guns, Germs and Steel”…not a new book, but i had never read it…just scanning a few of the comments above, thinking about the book, and looking at our world situation, makes me fantasize a simpler social structure…

    well, i am too jet-lagged to think about anything more now than unpacking and a good night’s sleep which has eluded me for a week or so..

    i do miss “hanging” here with all of you, so back soonest….

    cheers, david

  • Anna
    I think I like to take photos solo, I doubt that I will go out to take photos in a group situation, having said that it would be fun to have you guys over here for a drink, some music etc.
    let me know.

  • DAVIN….

    my new family project is almost all Tri-X medium format film….and so was all my “early work”…never shot a color picture until i was over 30…you may never have noticed my first b&w book …in the “gallery” section here off the “home page”….i still think color is just too damned hard!!!

    cheers, david

  • PATRICIA..ANTON

    my tattoo is a very simple star…will show you next time we meet….

    cheers, david

  • My passion for photography started when my daughter was born…not being a professional photographer, Claudia became my everyday assigment and then 5 years later came Pablo…with them I had the opportunity to explore and learn and my photography became better… a never ending photo essay that became my best and free photo workshop for the last 14 years…

    I admire Sally Mann a lot..her children became her most valuable and famous work…and if you see “hat Remains” you’ll also see that she have been and is a superb mother.

    saludos.
    Carlos

  • WROBERT

    that makes perfect sense + i totally respect your way. a drink + music sound cool. perhaps a week from tonight (sunday)?? let’s see when vampire boy is available.

  • DAH -G G & S is a great book – I read it on a trip though the Inland over the 99-00 period, wondering if there were any tips on how to form a new civilisation if the Millenium bug wiped out civilisation as we know it, won’t give away the ending but although it’s an older book , it’s themes are still current – It was a hard ask the first time round but I took it away with me on that journey as the only reading matter I had with the determination to finish it,Good luck man!!!
    NO TATTOO ,But have some neat scars!

  • anyone watching the olympics?
    —————————
    In the USA, you need cable to watch the Olympics, and all i get is 5 channels. yes, yes, it’s a color TV… ;-)

    Just see the french let the 4×100 freestyle gold slip away after leading the US by a full body’s length. What a letdown!

    but hey, I am both french and american, so I guess I could erupt Jezak’s rally was heroic… :-)))

    ANTON

    Can’t open your link tonight.

    BOB

    are there demonstrations against warring in Russia, like in US and Canada? I mean by “like”, thousands of people, repeated in many big cities. Or am I wishful thinking?

  • PAULA…

    so nice to see you here!!! i miss you as well and i still remember our “samba nights”..i plan to get back down to Brazil as soon as possible to continue our work with the samba schools etc etc…

    your words are words of wisdom….

    SEAN….

    i am not sure there is ever a time when you would FEEL “ready”…i do know this…when children enter your life, you WILL be ready!!

    and i have said this before, and i will say it again…children really are THE LIGHT….they add, do not subtract…help you to FOCUS…whatever perhaps imaginary struggle is associated with helping to bring in a new life is way more than matched by the unparalleled rewards…

    besides, be practical…just think of all the “kid pictures” you will have for your archive not requiring model releases!!!

    cheers, david

  • I’m bowing out for a while. Mind you, I’ve not been very involved recently. My move back to London with my family is proving extremely demanding on my time. As are my endeavours towards a return to full time shooting once the boys are settled in school.

    All my online time at the moment, as little as it is, is entirely devoted to getting as much new material as possible into my PhotoShelter Collection. I want to try and achieve 1000 new shots to my collection by the end of September. Only then will I come back.

    http://my.photoshelter.com/photohumourist
    http://www.photohumourist.com

    photo@paultreacy.com

    Thanks for this particular post, David. I don’t feel quite so isolated now.

    Paulyman over and out for a few weeks, yet again.

  • Before I leave let me just mention something Joe Rodriguez said to my classmates and me at ICP in 1999, he said if you have kids you’ll most likely be successful as a photographer because you’ll not have a choice.

    I hear his words screaming in my head at the moment. I only hope I can prove him right over the coming months.

    Thanks Joe.

  • GLENN…

    i was going to ask you if you felt the story of the Aborigines was told well by Diamond..i am always fascinated by the ebb and flow of culture and he seems to do a good job of putting things in perspective..of course, like any good book, it only wants to make you read more and more…

    by the way, my star tattoo came to me on a full moon night at Bondi Beach..so, a little piece of Australia is with me wherever i go…

    PATRICIA…

    i am so pleased you had a great time with MEM…still, i do wish for you, at some point, a full shooting session with an essay produced “on demand”…on the other hand, you are IN a full shooting mode right at home…i hope you are psyched up and continuing with this important work…

    today i will go pick up the pictures i made of you and your Ed….i should be able to send out the contact sheets to you soonest….

    hugs, peace…david

  • PAUL…

    your bio says it all….”husband, father, photographer”…

    come back when you are ready….

    cheers, david

  • LAREDO…

    all of us have different circumstances….but for me, everything (wife, children) came “at the beginning” and at the time it just seemed like too much at once…but, it did force me to “rise to the occasion” and eliminate a lot of miscellaneous stuff i was doing that seemed “important” but later i realized those things meant nothing at all…for sure, at least in my case, had i not had the responsibilities thrown upon me at an early age, i would seriously have wasted a lot of time…some of my contemporaries who were free free free, squandered their “freedom” and ended up with much less “freedom” in the long run…

    cheers, david

  • LANCE….

    you have several new powerful images for “Thirst For Grit”…

    but, please do not stop and smell the roses just yet…you have a summer of rodeos….just keep living it…

    please come to see me later in the fall and get this work printed and “up on the wall” to see where you stand…we can do this at my place….

    are you writing?? is someone writing?? audio track???

    book here for sure, but shake off that thought for now and just keep working…you do not need to edit much now either…

    eyes on the prize….

    abrazos, david

  • LEE….

    love story to tell?? my oh my, you do have an imagination!!!

    cheers, david

  • DAH – Jared Diamond explains that part of things well enough – The facts that islolation on a large …no, huge continent and no tradition of long distance sea faring caused the first people to turn inward , to find solutions to their questions about the universe from their surroundings, clues to lifes meaning can be found in a gentle rise of earth on the desert floor, or a cleft in a rock face ,the path the water takes after rain reenacts the path of the rainbow serpent the creator spirit – If any one gets a chance to fly over the desert ,compare what you see with the work of the desert artists at Papunya Tula or Tijikala you will see that those old men could really fly. sometimes I dream that I’m flying like those old men.
    http://www.digitalrailroad.net/glenn/Production/PhotoGroupView.aspx?pbid=4&msa=1&pgid=11843652&ipp=128&sort=0

  • CARLOS….

    your feelings and experience parallel my experience exactly…

    thanks for your comments always…

    saludos, david

  • David,

    So nice to have you around again ;-) Really hope to see you in Perpignan!! have new things to show you.

    A big kiss

    Ana

  • ANA….

    i do not know 100% for sure if Perpignan is a possibility for me …i do have a room reserved and really want to go, but i also have so many things to do and my New York workshop is just around the corner in mid september…if everything is totally set for New York and i have no other problems , then i will try to get to France…in any case, i hope we meet soonest and surely i will be pleased to see your newest work…

    cheers, david

  • QUINTON…

    i liked your site, but for the life of me i could not find your portfolio about Molly…

    cheers, david

  • ROGER MAY…

    your site would not open for me…will try later..thanks for the comment…

    cheers, david

  • HEY PAUL – GOOD LUCK..

    i’m up to 500 give or take on PSC… with one sale in the first few months..

    everyone – well worth uploading with them.. great rate (photo keeps 70%) and nice peopel to deal with.
    http://psc.photoshelter.com/user/bophoto

    mornin, harvey :o)

  • DAH, GLENNN

    Hmmmmm……

    I wrote this last year as the opening paragraphs for yet another (unsuccessful) grant proposal…

    “It wasn’t until I was flying at 28,000 feet between Darwin and Broome in north Western Australia that I finally began to understand the land beneath me. It was the country I had been born in and it was heartbreakingly beautiful, but it was only now, while I was in the air, that I felt completely connected to it.

    Looking down, I was awestruck by the notion that many thousands of years ago, Aborigines had somehow managed to rise to the altitude at which I was travelling so as to see the land they so beautifully replicated in their paintings from an aerial perspective.

    But then it struck me that this unique ‘mob’ of people, with such ancient antecedents, didn’t need to fly above the land to see it, to paint it: they just felt it from the very core of their beings.”

    Now I have been given a big lecture tonight about the way that ‘gubars’ think about kids and family and material possessions and you know what, it is different…

    Will I see you for a beer on the w/e Glenn?

    +612 418 225 965

  • Oooohhh I really hope you can finally make it and be there. It will be soooo nice to see you! Luis told me that he plans to go aswell. In fact I was going to call him and decide the exact dates.
    I’m still preparing the portfolios for the reviews. First time to do it and have no idea of how :-D (don’t have any hope to get somebody interested on my work, but sure I will learn a lot from the experience).

    Oh, at least you have a room reserved! I still don’t!! :D

    Cheers

    Ana

  • suryo

    just reading the ‘work in progress..’ you unwittingly started with the self-portrait

    http://suryowibowo.blogspot.com/2008/07/speech-for-your-own-funeral.html

    good one..

  • ELIZABETH….

    i enjoyed your comment as much as i enjoyed your website…yes, we all have different circumstances and yours sounds very much like the life of Sally Mann..she had very strong support from her husband Larry who never wavered in making sure she was able to do her work…

    your work is quite eloquent…particularly “small moments” and “traces”….you have been able to take the little vignettes of everyday life and give them special meaning ….just a light touch…almost a visual caress…

    cheers, david

  • ANA…

    i do not know if Magnum will do reviews this year in Perpignan or not…we usually do and i usually do it, but i have not heard anything about it yet…

    in any case, people are showing portfolios all over the place all the time…i certainly do my share of looking…for me, either laptop or prints are fine…perhaps i like prints the very best because i can more easily edit and sequence if necessary…

    either way, i would suggest no more than 30 pictures …so many photographers totally ruin the reviewing process by bringing just too too many pictures….and the other downfall is that many amazingly do not have a particularly classy presentation…

    it is always curious to me when someone says , “well, i will make better prints later” or says “yes, i know this isn’t so good, but i did not have time”…all i can say is to these photographers is “exactly when would you consider it the right time to make a good presentation?” here they are showing their work to top editors, photographers they respect etc. and yet the presentation is sloppy…i do not get it!! anyway , you would not do that i know..

    i do hope i will be able to come…

    besos, david

  • Hello,
    I just uploaded some new pictures of Beijingers watching the Olympic opening ceremony on a screen in the streets on my website… ( new: Watching )…. It was quite a surprise to run into a group gathering that was not sponsored by xyz big foreign company and not really controlled either….

  • Hi David,

    Welcome back…something I relaized talking to my wife yesterday is that I am 35 years old and I just start understanding “Light”…my wife says that my current pictures are a huge improvment over past work because my reading of light is better.

    Do you recall teh point in your life when you said: now I understand light and how to use it in my photography?

    Thanks

    Arie

  • Bravo, Katharina..
    Keep it up..
    More, more.. More

  • DAVID,

    Thank you soooo much for your advice on the portfolios reviews. I’m preparing it since some days ago and I’m trying to do it as best as I can. My idea was to prepare one portfolio of around maybe 20 photos with the best two pictures of each of the series I have and maybe some good singles, and bring apart the series completed. The idea is to show the main portfolio and if somebody is interested in seeing one of the series completed, then I can bring it out. Maybe I will prepare the main portfolio with printed photos and the complete series in the laptop (that’s another option, maybe easier).
    Do you think this may work? or is it better to show just a complete serie?
    How many days do you think I will need for doing portfolio reviews there?
    Sorry for so many questions at the same time. I really want to do it well…
    And thank you so much ;-)
    Some of the people around here will meet at Cafe le Poste. I’m crossing my fingers so you finally come. I’ll love to see you again!

    Un abrazo

    Ana

  • KATHARINA

    Zhen de Hao Kan le!

    Since these are all in square format I am curious about your equipment… 2 and 1/4 film? And do you have your own darkroom in Beijing?

  • Panos,
    thanks..we’ll see…
    Sydney,
    xiexie….
    Nope….

  • KIDS. CAMELS. CHAOS.
    Back to marriage and kids…i didn’t think i wanted them, because i wanted to be free and had no idea what i’d do if i could do anything.
    I became a photographer..am a photographer with two adult daughters and thank whoever i learned responsibility when i was younger. but…that old gypsy wanderlust spirit was just waiting for something and now that i have this career, i am not only happy, sometimes very frustrated that i can’t do all i want to do, but what i have learned is how to be disciplined and focused and learned that this is what i want. it won’t go away. i think i’m a better person because of being a parent. my photography however is just mine to work on and i never stop breathing it.
    there are only a few magic people in the world who can do the kind of work nachtwey, chris are doing. whatever our needs of the soul are. kids won’t stop those needs from becoming reality.
    because of the sacrifices and patience it’s taken to raise my daughters, i now use those skills to explore photography. i’ve done a book, have another one in the works, it’s been hard, but how lucky are we to be photographers…and know other photographers..this blog being the finest example. as david said,kids are ‘the light’ the passion i feel in life,about life, about music and dance come from still being a kid myself.

  • DAVID OR MIKE

    I just wrote a long post that was flagged by typepad’s antispam filter. The error message said it would have to be authorized by one of you. Let me know if it’s dropped into a black hole…

    Patricia

  • Katharina,

    I very like your photography, I said that many times but your website working very slowly for me especially this china part. Your b&w are moving and color have very strong mood.

    peace

  • DAVID OR MIKE

    I just wrote a long post that was flagged by typepad’s antispam filter. The error message said it would have to be authorized by one of you. Let me know if it’s dropped into a black hole…

    Patricia

  • sorry…I meant SIdney !

  • KATHARINA

    Magnificent series!!! You have captured the life, energy and enthusiasm of the Olympics as reflected in these wonderful faces. BRAVA!!!!

    Patricia

  • Katharina,
    Beautiful work! Also just love the work on North Korean refugees..

  • DAH : in your post to laredo u mentioned that some of your contemporaries whom were free free free ended up squandering there freedom and ended up with much less freedom.

    could you elaborate ? do you mean that they didn’t put there time to good use and failed to produce when asked or on demand ? just curious..

  • KATHARINA, I really enjoyed watching your work, specially some of your publications and suffering in silence. Good work. Keep it hight!

  • KAT:

    :))))…absolutely love it…more like a howl…eternal, really, about our own human natures…both desires and expectant…especially in light of all the colorful pagentry, love this more elemental take :)))

    hugs
    b

  • PATRICIA….

    i just went into Typepad and looked around, but did not see anywhere or anything that could be blocking your post…but, Mike will be coming in later and he may know what to do or what the problem may be…we have certainly done nothing from our end that should make something like this happen..so sorry for the inconvenience and i will let you know soonest if we can figure out the problem..

    cheers, david

  • PATRICIA…

    same thing is happening to me when i try to comment…will check out this error…

  • I started off in photography later than people usually do. I was 37. So I already had a career and had started rasing a family before studying journalism and photography. I later divorced (best thing I’ve ever done!). My daughter is now seven yars old. We’re very close together. But I plan no to have other children or a wife anymore.

    So if my professional life as a journalist and photographer ever gets “established” I won’t have to worry much about a family life. I no longer have a wife to care for and my daughter no longer needs the around the clock attention small babies do.

    Mine is an unusual situation, isn’t it?

    http://www.angelobrazil.blogspot.com

  • ROBERT…

    yes…it is easy to squander anything…money…time…etc etc…particularly time…

    because i had so much responsibility at an early age, i think it helped me to use my time wisely….some of my contemporaries, figuring they had all the time in the world, just did not go out and produce and use their talents and craft wisely…then along came the “magic big three zero” and they wondered what went wrong…meanwhile, while i had been in their view “saddled with a wife and two children”, i managed to constantly be doing stories on my own etc etc and ended up being in very good career shape by the time i was 29…

    cheers, david

  • Bob, Patricia,Ana,Anna,Martin,Marcin,
    thanks a lot… it was kind of unexpected…
    Marcin…sorry, yes, the site is pretty slow….

  • DAVID

    When you will have some free time… I upload finished hometwon story few days ago.

    http://marcinluczkowski.com/hometown.html

  • Angelo,

    “I hate David Alan Harvey” is hilarious! I’m sure David will convince you otherwise on many points though…

  • katharina

    really intense images… you certainly captured the moment there… wow great

    a

  • when children enter your life, you WILL be ready!!
    ——————–

    Wow, David, I read this and I think, why the pro-life lobbies never thought of that one….

    :-))))

  • Katharina….Scary…. Maybe your dramatic treatment.

    PS: Have you watched Einsenstein’s Potemkin” lately? ;-)))

  • DAVID:

    I really hope that you will follow at some point with a posting dedicated to the topic of conceptual vs. the tried and true photography, which you initially mentioned when I asked you for feedback on my immigrant story.

    Recently I came across two other related articles, one by Martin Parr and the other by Terry Heaton at the Digital Journalist. Both are related and worth reading, but save this posting for when you have some time, pretty please.

    http://www.pdnonline.com/pdn/features/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003833926

    http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0808/local-media-in-a-postmodern-world-a-reasonable-view-of-tomorrow.html

    I also hope you can make it to Perpignan this year.

    all the best,
    Charlie

  • Herve,
    nope… only watched a country for years that usually ” keeps face”…but suddenly forgot about it for a second last week.

  • I am certain of that, Katarina, just speaking of the choices (compo, processing, etc…) you made for that mini-essay.

    It comes out, to my eyes, as yet another political rally (any rally with asians).

  • Katharina–

    I LOVE your photos! Your photos of the people watching the olympics are amazing and I really love the Punks in China. I’d like to see more of those. So great. I have more to look at. Beautiful work!!!

    sl

  • Dear Marcin Luczkowski,

    The post “I hate David Alan Harvey” on my blog was just a different way to say David is a great photographer and an inspiration to me, to all of us.

    But I do envy the way he portrays people. I’m just not that good yet at photographing people. :-)

    By the way I love the pictures he’s done on his assignments here in Brazil. Check them out.

  • ANGELO….

    you made me laugh out loud!!

    my ex-girlfriend is not laughing however…she really does hate me!!!

    Angelo, please never think it is too late to enjoy a life in photography…just imagine if you had not discovered it at all…

    the most important thing to remember is not to have any goal other than using your eyes and your camera to discover a world you would not have seen otherwise…isn’t that enough??

    let’s try to meet the next time i am in Brazil…i am usually there at least once per year….

    cheers, david

  • Anna
    a week from this sunday coming up sounds pretty cool. at this point I dont have anything lined up for that time. it might be cool if anyone else would like to roll through. I am really not sure who is LA local here, but if you are local on this blog and in LA, then “come on down” as bob would say. (barker)
    best to all

  • DAVID and MICHAEL C.:

    A bit off topic, but the link on this site (at right) to William Albert Allard is no longer viable… it leads to an error message, and a subsequent search of the enormous Nat Geo site gives Bill Allard’s text bio, but no pages featuring his work except in little tiny ‘teasers’ for exhibition ads or articles. Personally, I think this is simply outrageous- one of the greatest living photographers, and they can’t showcase his work on the web in a semi-permanent fashion? Scandalous… and further ammunition for David’s repeated contention that photographers must own and control their own archive… shame on you, NatGeo.

  • Ok Mr Harvey.

    The next time you come to brazil I’ll meet you and pay you a beer if you come to Sao Paulo.

    Cheers

    Angelo de Assis

    http://www.angelobrazil.blogspot.com

    http://www.angelodeassis.blogspot.com

    http://www.flickr/photos/angelodeassis

  • DAVID

    [I’ll try dividing my message in two to see which part sets off the anti-spam filter.]

    Welcome home!!! You were missed.

    In response to your earlier message, yes, I look forward to the time when I can participate in a shooting workshop where I have to create an essay on demand but, you know me, I NEVER stop working on my own essays.

    Speaking of which I extended my trip so I could have a couple of days in NYC. Spent Spencer’s birthday with him at MoMA & in the East Village, and then spent hours by myself the next day pouring over the amazing Japanese contemporary photographers’ exhibit at ICP. That evening I met Erica for dinner at La Esquina in the Village where we celebrated HER birthday. As you already know, our so-called “virtual” friends are the real thing!!!

    MEM’s workshop was rich & informative. As you’ve already read, she responded very positively to the tight edit of my Self portraits/Daily Life project. She wanted to see more so, at the County Fair on Sunday, I showed her the 62 prints (4×6) I’d showed you when you’d visited Ed & me. Where you’d picked 18, and I’d picked 10 from that 18, MEM picked 30! But don’t fret, I’m staying true to my 10. Maybe as things evolve I’ll add some of the others, but for now, this tight edit says what I want to say and how I want to say it.

    Of course I took lots of street shots in NYC, including a few more SPs. And after getting home on Saturday night–1300 miles roundtrip driven by myself!–I took a couple more SPs on Sunday when I went to swim laps here at our community park. You can see these “possibles” by clicking on the following link:

    http://www.pbase.com/windchimewalker/for_review11

    And, as a reminder, the link to our recent tight edit of my Self Portrait/Daily Life project is:

    http://www.pbase.com/windchimewalker/daily_life

    Looking forward to seeing the contact sheet with your portraits of Ed and me. Be sure to indicate which are your favorites. But, again, there is NO RUSH! Let yourself settle into things as gently as possible…

    Patricia

  • DAVID [part 2]

    There is NO RUSH to look at any of these, but I thought it would make your life easier if I posted the Winter Nudes links here so you don’t have to go searching…

    http://www.pbase.com/windchimewalker/winter_nudes1

    In the link posted above, all are self portraits except images #1, 2, 3, 4.

    http://www.pbase.com/windchimewalker/nightlit_winterwoman

    ALL images in the link posted above are self portraits.

    By the way, I shot this entire series in color and then converted some of them to B&W, so it would be a snap to go back to color if we so choose.

    The link for the entire Winter Nudes series is:

    http://www.pbase.com/windchimewalker/winter_nudes

    Patricia

  • Hello Katharina,

    I just wanted to say the same Marcin posted to you.
    Your site looks very interesting, as well as the photos. But the site is working very slow. Maybe you want to check out with the people who gives you the service (although my internet is not the best in the world).
    Saludos,

  • Sorry. Forgot to post the password…

    http://www.pbase.com/windchimewalker/for_review11

    PASSWORD patricia

    By the way, ALL are welcome to check out these possible additions to my Self Portraits/Daily Life project. I value everyone’s opinion!!!

    Patricia

  • LES….DAVID BOWEN….SURYO

    your signed print, your signed book and your signed bag are being shipped to you today…

    please pardon the delay….

    cheers, david

  • ALL,
    ( quick tip for SPAM or ANTI-SPAM issues )…
    change temporarily your URL address above with another active link..
    anything would do… )
    peace

  • SIDNEY….

    you are right on!!!

    it gets worse….

    Natgeo let Bill Allard and Jodi Cobb “go” just a few weeks ago…shame, shame…they were close to their own retirement anyway…

    this is always the danger of being an employee of any large company…you and i have discussed this before and i will not say “i told you so”, but this is the ultimate manifestation of photographers going for “security” over copyright….

    i do not know this for sure, but i doubt any of the many Natgeo vice presidents lost their jobs….

    Natgeo is primarily known for one thing …they sell only one thing in the minds of most people…..PICTURES….

    yes, too bad that two of the best no longer have a home….

    cheers, david

  • DAVID,

    Welcome back…. Hope you had a great time with your TPW friends…. I was reading smiling one of your previous comment about how difficult shooting in colour can be. Let me tell you that I am experiencing this first hand for my boxing essay that I am still working on. As a matter of fact, due to some travel for work, I have not been able to shoot anything for the past 10 days but hopefully will be able to shoot some more this week or next before I head off to vacations in France… By the way, I was hoping to stop by Perpigan while in France, as it is close to where my family resides and I could potentially bring you some pictures to make it easier to edit but will see, dependng on whether you plan to be there or not (would plan on stopping by anyway to see the expos and some of the :bloggers hopefully). Going back to the challenge of shooting in colors, this has been a real headache for me right now, not because I can’t shoot in colors but this is actually the first time for me that I have been shooting a lot of “indoor” shots, in different gyms with very different lighting… Somehow, when I try to regroup my best pictures, I have this feeling of unhappiness/ struggle (Erica called this before the OH SHIT moment) as these seem to not have the right colour pallette/ tone to mix well with one another…In one gym, pictures have a real “red” look and feel that works very well for that particular gym but seem to clash with other pictures I took in another one…. It is just so bloody hard to have this consistent “look and feel” for an overall essay in colour… Sometimes I think it would be so much easier to achieve this with B&W….but, I cannot help, I see in colors and will stick with this even if a real pain….

    The other challenge continues to be adding weight, context and a message about the work I am doing…I have an inclination when I work to go for impacful single shots as opposed to really think about what I want to say and focus on shooting this….I sort of use my instinct and shoot what I see and react to…. I think I did get some single powerful images but I am still looking for a more coherent holistic essay…I realize that this will take me some time to get there and at some point, I will have to decide to send you what I have got for now, while planning to carry on working this over the next weeks/ months. Perfect example of me getting easily side-tracked, I went to see a boxing tournament for a couple of days 10 days ago to “wrap” up my essay….while there, as there was little to do/shoot for my main essay, I ended up shooting colorful portraits of “little” warriors/ kids who are 7-8 years old and are fighting on the ring…. Would love for you to look at some of these (under boxing, New little warriors” on my site in case interested) but it is so different vs what I had been shooting that it has become a total separate piece as opposed to a continuation…. Anyway, you are probably thinking I am venting and not making any sense here but, I just wanted to say it is bloody hard to really come up with a coherent essay….I do believe and hope I have some strong single images but this does not necessarily make a strong essay….. this is the challenge still ahead that I will hopefully solve sooner rather than later :):):)

    Cheers,

    Eric

    PS: by the way, I cannot believe Herve that the French lost that relay!!!! I had bets with people at work….this is going to cost me….Bloody americans who could not even let the arrogant French stay in the lead!!!!!! This is so unfair!!!!!

  • I can’t believe i have to agree with Sidney ??!!!!
    ( either getting too old or too soft …:))))) )..
    but , yes…
    fuck natgeo…
    i was saying the same shit last year… but i was getting slapped
    left and right…
    corporate america 2008…
    there is no difference between natgeo, PEPSI, or GMC…
    same shit…
    corporate shit…

    but what to expect from a business based in Washington DC????

  • LISA – No! They can fly , true , I met a man once who quite matter of factly told me he could astral travel ,and proceeded to tell me what my home town looked like from the air ,this was a guy who had never left the centre , I’ll be in Maningrida Wednsday , Thursday and home over the weekend so definitely give me a ring
    +61 419 577 715

  • david,

    sorry to hear about the natgeo news. i mean i know it has not effected you personally but it is sad to hear some of the finest have been let go.

    i have herd the argument for some time that poeple “do not read” anymore. with the internet they log on… take one look and then they are done with it. now you can do it on your phone as well. or watch it all on tv.

    are people buying magazines as much anymore? i personally invest in them because i like the feeling of holding a magazine in my hands… images mean so much more.. than looking on a screen, you get to hold them.

    do people really invest in magazines as much as they used to?

  • DAH

    it’s fine.. thanks again.. very kind

  • mike

    7 client magazines folded on me in 5 years.. my longest standing client has a pitiful circulation compared with a decade ago..

    collectors, photographers, the larger (?) percentage who do not subscribe to the inter-web as we do.. there will always be a market for magazines, i am sure.

    just waiting for the ripples to settle a little… and for websites to begin paying what photography is worth, if they ever will..

    DAH

    on pitching a book – would you say it was something like pitching to a magazine, although with longer time frames and more legwork?
    trying to psych-up to it in order to keep the motivation bubbling for the ‘decade’ idea..

    indebted.
    d

  • PANOS…

    yes, i know you were saying the same thing last year…and you never read me slamming you on that issue…

    i certainly was able to get a significant body of work out of so many assignments for Natgeo…and at one time Natgeo was really a family…for this i will always be grateful….

    but, i saw “the handwriting on the wall” many years ago and knew that i just could not stay on the staff for many reasons…yes, i had to leave despite the health benefits, monthly good salary, nice office and retirement benefits????????

    i am sure both Jodi and Bill will be given freelance assignments…and i really like so many of the editors who work there…some lifetime friends among them..and i will never knock for a minute those old friends…but, yes, corporate America 2008…

    there is actually a good excuse…circulation has been plummeting for many years now and there is just a fraction of the photo budgets of yesteryear…but, what an irony that the top accountants see fit to cut the photo budget first….it is always the photographers that are an easy mark for accounting…they just have no way to measure and account for the genius and talent that create the very product they sell…

    yup, the Federal Village…what else to expect?? hmmmmm…well, i lived there for many years and had some very happy days..for one thing, my son Bryan lived just down the street for 7 years…good times…..but since i have moved to New York i do not cry for Washington…something changed at Natgeo around 2000 or so …

    anyway, i have no regrets about my long time association with Natgeo…and i also have no regrets about distancing myself the way i have…i have a very positive relationship (at least before i wrote this note!) and i would happily shoot another assignment some day for the right story…but, i would not have been able to take what Jodi and Bill just took…

    to end positive:

    my real friends there will always be my real friends there…

    cheers, david

  • david b

    ya i have herd the same story a few times with other friends of mine losing jobs with magazines and as well magazines not paying what they used to. but i must admit… looking at some of the old life magazine stories that they ran (eugene richards cocaine and many many others) its so easy to just go get it on the internet now rather than buying…. paying for images on the net… well… i think that is another discussion…

    lee

    i looked at your comment on my work and i hope it is a good thing. things have changed for me a bit since we last met. more has happened and that has effected my work. i do hope you liked it though.

  • KATHARINA AND SEAN,
    So interesting to see the street tales of the olympic games…Katharina, I love image #10…the light and the expressions of anticipation and excitement are wonderful.

    I love seeing how people find new ways to capture heavily photographed situations. You guys both have interesting projects there…

    and on the topic at hand,
    I love the new people (and websites) that have popped up with this topic…

    welcome back to nyc David!

    anna

  • PATRICIA…

    i have a whole bunch of stuff to do right now and just do not want to cut looking at your work short…so, i will look at your link later tonight or tomorrow…

    cheers, david

  • MIKE BERUBE…

    paying for images on the net is surely a whole new post to come…i hope it is obvious to you that is exactly what i am trying to do here with EPF…by raising as much dinero as i can to help fund at least a few of you…surely, only a minor drop in the proverbial bucket, but a brick in the wall is a brick in the wall…

    cheers, david

  • you speak the truth DAVID…
    You tell it like it is.
    No fear, nothing to lose,
    Stuck to your friends and your guns..
    That’s why
    You’re the MAN.. That’s why I’m here..
    That’s why I , we are all ears.
    Because you don’t kiss ass,
    But most important …
    You don’t want your ass to get kissed either..
    ALL MY LOVE AND RESPECT TO YOU..
    I’m glad you back..
    See you soonest..
    Peace
    Driving

  • Of course Mike B! Sorry if my comment sounded otherwise. Loved them.

    Regarding magazines and fewer opportunities…in every airport book and magazine shop there were walls and walls and walls of magazines. Someone has to be buying them. I buy them.

    Hope to meet again Mike.

    Welcome home David and if it isn’t a love story then a break up story?

    Lee

  • david,

    i know this is what you are trying to do with the epf fund. i think it is great that you make the time to do this. many people (photographers) do not have the time nor the resources to put something like this together and give it away to the new talent in the crowd. but i think this is amazing of you to do so. i was just looking at the overall mass change in the market of photography. digital has certainly changed things… along with the internet….

  • lee,

    cool. and yes people must be buying magazines indeed. but for natgeo to make a decision like this… well it only translates that someone is not buying magazines as well… glad you liked the work. i checked out your site its really cool. i hope we do meet up soon as well. if you are ever in toronto give me a ring!

  • mike

    i think it’s a ripple for web payments which will (might) come on the back of solid advertising and promotions web-based journals are now earning..
    some websites already pay good wedge for contributions, while others depend upon the free contributions of those happy to do it for ‘shits-and-kicks’, (as i once heard it called) and who invariably are wealthy hobbyists rather than passionate and single minded snappers.

    in the section of media i understand it is no longer a case of offering work to the best in position to carry it out well.. it’s now the norm to offer it to whoever will do it for the least money..

    i survived a long time on determination and beans on toast.. and it worked out..

    the looser? in terms of quality, ultimately the magazine.. the advertisers..
    in terms of the story, the subjects do not get the accurate and well conceived coverage they deserve..
    and perhaps the demise of the ‘long project’ photographer can be seen on the horizon..

    however, despite what i write above i try to remain positive in myself, about my work and about the industry.. which is why i hope web payments come through.. and at least a few people continue buying quality magazines for the quality of writing and photography.

    i also hope that advertisers will insist more and more that the quality of content on web journals be bought up to scratch.. and the way to do that is to pay a dedicated photographer a writer.. rather than skimp and save money on the area which actually adds the value to the product they pay for..

  • LEE….

    yup

    cheers, david

  • DAVID B..

    very well put…

  • .. well put for 2am on red wine..
    muchas tanks..
    and sorry for lee’s news..

    onwards and upwards for us all..

  • one thing i struggle with..

    i have to teach wealthy 18 year olds who have bought d3 nikons how to be a photojournalist..
    when they are all convinced, perhaps with the arrogance of youth, that they have the camera, so they can do the work..
    and maybe they can, since my own editors are just not that tough on snappers anymore..

    however.. lecturers CAN be..
    :o)

  • david b,

    ya it is really easy to focus on the bad things in life…. things are looking up i know its just an issue that i think many people and photographers and anyone in the industry have to think about.

    but i will wait for davids thoughts on web based selling of images. there are allot of open spaces on the web that images can make it to. and i am sure we cannot keep track of it all. trust is a factor i am sure. but yes hopefully advertisers will wake up and commission real work and real essays that have real depth.

    on the other side the internet provides a great new way of presenting work and showing work i a new and exciting way… all good things… just changes…

    great advice… thanks so much!!!

  • Creativity whether as an artist or as a parent seems to me a very spiritual connection that is bottom line all about love and love conquering the fear that sometimes raises it’s ugly head. I think we all are drawn to what makes us feel most “alive.” Having and raising children was for me the ultimate fulfillment, but they are now grown and have always been separate beings. But the freedom and delight of children is a beautiful inspiration to be creative in other ways. I love photography–the work of others and the creative process. There is a level of fear involved for me though–perhaps a fear of failure as well as a shyness in approaching people. It is so encouraging to see the work on this site of photographers who are no longer young. My goal is have enough work and to be brave enough to post a website. I need to let go of the idea that it needs to be perfect–a laugh–or even good–but to just do it because I want to.

  • i think we’re all nervous .. because we all care about our contribution whether to a magazine or to our own blogs and websites..

    feel confident .. people here do not ridicule and it’s about the safest place to start peeling your layers away..

    let that ‘rosemary’ name shine with clickability

  • mike.. so many bad things.. so many good things.. one more glass of wine..

  • ROSEMARY…

    i know no sweeter classier woman than you…you are a great lady in my opinion..please give yourself a “no limit” pass…and yes yes yes, just do it “because you want to”…

    cheers, david

  • DAVID BOWIE SAID:
    “…in the section of media i understand it is no longer a case of offering work to the best in position to carry it out well.. it’s now the norm to offer it to whoever will do it for the least money…”

    SAD BUT TRUE.. very true…

  • DID I WRITE

    DAVID BOWIE…??????
    sorryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, i meant DAVID BOWEN…

    but since i mentioned Bowie… there you have it :

  • http://farm1.static.flickr.com/196/467115742_603e77a680.jpg

    panos.. i thank you.. i never showed my knackers in a film though :o)

    ‘sailors, fighting in a dance hall
    oh man – look at those cave men go..
    it’s the freakiest show, wo, wo, wo..’

  • just realized..
    some of the students have spent up to 1/2 my yearly turnover (for 10 years) on camera equip they may never get to use properly..

    in terms of break-even, they have sunk before they have begun…

  • david B.,
    … if this ( above photo ) is your bed…
    i dont wanna see you getting old…
    peace :)))))))))))))

    and now, MY FAVORITE SONG OF ALL TIMES:

  • and this one goes for
    DAVID ALAN HARVEY and his ROADTRIP…

    1969 ok ??????… all across the USA…

  • panos hollywood
    (i lied.. still awake… still dreaming)

    too late..
    i is old, innit..

    gonna b a dad
    gonna b a dad
    gonna call him XXXX
    see i’m gonna b a dad.
    (35 & 3/4)

  • D. Bowen,
    dude… get out of here … im gonna be 41…
    and i had 45 abortions and 12 miscarriages and no kids…
    still crazy,
    still out of control,
    still an idiot,
    still me,
    still a VAMPIRE….

    did i say “vampire”????… hey ANNA , i missed you…
    what’s up…
    i got really annoyed last sunday when i invited you in venice
    to shoot and hung, and you rejected me,
    by saying you had “A HEADACHE”…
    oh my… have i , heard that shit before !!!! :)))))))))))

  • PANOS

    “…I can’t believe i have to agree with Sidney ??!!!!…”

    Don’t worry, mon ami, it is unlikely to happen again!

  • SIDNEY….
    please don’t get upset…
    i admit i forgot to add the… :))))))))))))))) ,
    i really did…
    i love you,
    forgive me…
    i already admitted im an idiot… :)))))))))))))) ,
    peace

  • PATRICIA….

    is the end of this movie really really going to be Sydney and Panos walking off the right side of the screen, sun going down center, as they stroll into the local pub all buddy buddy…yuk!!!

    well, let’s move on…

    i like your self portrait on the bus, the book on the seat, and you sitting on the bed….no to gallery shot (mood does not fit) and that picture in bad light at the table…this is no time for you to lose control!!! by the way, i think you can do a better sitting on the bed picture..give it a try please if you have time…

    the book on the seat may end up as the most interesting of these three…mystery, odd,dreamlike are a few keywords i might use to describe this picture…

    what about your bicycle??? time to deal with this???

    missing you…

    hugs, david

  • David;

    NG let Bill Allard and Jodi Cobb go??? They must have rocks in their heads to do that!!
    You know what they say about accountants, they know the price of everything and the cost of nothing…

    Before I went fulltime I got shafted big time by two bosses (typical supermarkets!!) and after the second, decided I’d never let that happen again. I managed a dept for one boss for 10 years, always going “above and beyond”

    After leaving the first job I took part time hours (24hrs a week) to bridge the gap between part time and fulltime photojournalism. I decided that sometimes shit happens to push you in another direction, well that was my rationalisation to make myself feel better anyway….

    When I left the last job, I can distinctly remember the see saw of nervousness for the 5 days I spent mulling over my future before quitting. As soon as I had handed in my notice (and I mean immediately after) I felt absolutely calm. I felt like I’d closed a door to a part of my life and opened another onto a brand new (albeit scary) life!

    Come October, I’ll have one year of freelancing under my belt. I’ve never been so broke, but have also never been so rich in experiences and blessed by the number of interesting and motivational people I’ve met while pursuing stories.

    My new boss (the bank manager!) would probably find it difficult to put a price on those intangibles, but to me, they’re priceless.

    But what “wonderful thank you” Allard and Cobb received from NG, if I were them I’d be pretty pissed off. I don’t think it makes much difference they may have been nearing the end of their careers; it’s the principle that counts…

    Just a few random thoughts…

    Cheers everyone….

  • DAVID

    Missing you too, buddy. Strange how bonds can form so quickly. Regarding pics, I respect your choices. Only thing is the shot on the bed was in a NJ motel so that particular one won’t be redone anytime soon. I do have an unclothed side-of-the-bed shot that might work. Check out

    http://www.pbase.com/windchimewalker/image/92509695

    The bicycle shot is on hold until Eddie removes some junk he piled up in front of it. But it will happen. Have some other ideas too. This project is now at the forefront of my mind!

    BYW at MoMA I bought a DVD of Sally Mann creating “What Remains.” I’m sure I’ll learn a lot from her.

    Good luck in getting back in our time zone! Those six hours can be tough to reclaim.

    Patricia

  • Patricia,
    you mean ,
    a lot of throwing up ???

    “…Good luck in getting back in our time zone! Those six hours can be tough to reclaim.

    Patricia…”

  • ALL

    I’d promised to share what I learned from Mary Ellen Mark in her workshop at the Center of Photography at Woodstock, NY. What follows are some quotes I jotted down during the day of portfolio reviews. Much of it is REAL familiar to us DAH bloggers, but it never hurts to hear things phrased a little differently.
    ………………………………………………….

    QUOTES from MEM’S WORKSHOP

    “I’m a purist. I’m reality-based, only use film and never crop. You must understand your frames.”

    At the start of the workshop, she asked each participant the following questions:

    1. Are you a photographer? If so, what to you shoot?
    2. Do you use film or digital?
    3. How long have you been taking pics?
    4. Where do you live?
    5. Did you go to school for photography? Did they teach film and darkroom techniques?

    MEM is very film-oriented but said you can take great pics with a point & shoot. If we shoot digital she recommended we tape over our LCD screen so we won’t “chimp,” ie., look at our shots after we take them. In her opinion, B&W images should ALWAYS be film whereas color can be created with digital. But if you start a project in color, stay with color. Film gives a different quality to a print: “It is timeless.”

    In street shooting, you’re either after “caught moments” where the subjects don’t know you’re there, or “atmospheric” in which they do but might have forgotten your presence. A photographer is either a participant or an observer. To be a street photog you have to “think on your feet, have great instincts, see things before they happen. It’s fast & hard work!” One way to do it is to find a spot you like, manually focus ahead of time, and wait for subjects to cross your path. Spend hours if necessary. “Erase from your mind any fear of invading someone’s privacy. TAKE CONTROL!” How you present yourself is important; there should be “a feeling of OKness about you.” It may be a man’s world but in photography, being a woman is an advantage. You feel less threatening to people.

    Don’t worry if you follow a school. “Everything is derivative,” but “you are yourself,” an original.

    “You have to be hard on yourself.”

    Some photos have too much going on. You need a “sense of space & to use your edges.”

    When working on a series each photo must be able to stand on its own. There needs to be a feeling of one photographer throughout the work. “It’s how you see the world that establishes who you are” as a photographer. “Find one thing and go there. Don’t complicate your life. Keep it simple.” You want “an original idea that’s yours.”

    “I really like photos that have a mystery to them, an otherworldly quality…a photo that becomes a world in itself.”

    “I like to look at photographs that move me.”

    “Just do great work! Be passionate, obsessive, neurotic about it.”

    “Take risks with your camera. Be spontaneous. Bend the camera. Bend the frame.”

    “I’m totally NOT a joiner. I couldn’t even join Magnum.”

    “My pics are totally non-commercial. I never listen to trends. You have to listen to who you are.”

    “If you want to be a conceptualist, be a real one! Cindy Sherman is the real thing.”
    ……………………………………………..

    I also took lots of pics during the reviews. They are in the following gallery, but be forewarned, this photos have a real similarity. I made & posted them so the other participants could download pics of themselves with MEM reviewing their work.

    http://www.pbase.com/windchimewalker/mem_workshop1

    PASSWORD patricia

  • God, Panos, I hope that wasn’t what I meant!!! “Throwing up”??? YUK.

    How ya doing, little bro? Hope all is well with you. Sending love…

    Patricia

  • My baby sister Patricia,
    thats what happened to me last time i came back fro greece..
    i was throwing up for three days…
    not even weed would help… !!!???
    or any other “crutch”… but… the 4th day…
    oh my, oh my , the 4th day…
    everything went back in order…
    fucking jet lags…

  • PATRICIA….

    of course, MEM speaks wise words…..but there are two “gotcha’s” in there…

    first, MEM was a “joiner” for four years in Magnum….around me she is totally obsessed by references to Magnum…after somebody says they hate something 3 or more times , it means they love it!!!

    two, MEM is very much a commercial photographer…she has a very highly paid rep to get her the best ad jobs around…

    neither of these two are negative, and i have been one of MEM’s biggest fans my whole career, but i would have to “call her” on those two statements…i am sure she could “call me” on statements or mis-statements i have made too!!!

    well, i liked the bed shot , but just thought you could “tweak it” just a bit…surely, it is just fine and we should keep it….but, you know me by now…i just want to make your book the very best it can be..

    by the way, i have never made even close to the perfect book or perfect anything..but, i just try, that’s all..

    cheers, david

  • Did, someone said… MAGNUM ????

    I LOVE “MAGNUM”… “magnum” is this blog…!
    its more “magnum” than the “REAL MAGNUM WEBSITE MAGNUM”…
    … “magnum” is here…
    thank you David !!!!

  • Anna Maria, Spencer,Carlos
    thanks ….
    Herve,
    I had to smile about your Eisenstein reference…very funny !

  • EVERYONE…catching up…

    Speaking of Bill Allard, I just bought his Portraits of America book Friday night! Had a 40% off coupon at Borders and that was the best book in the store IMHO. Seeing this book I was reminded of LANCE’s comment to me about others before us who have shot rodeo and shot it well. Bill is a great example of this.

    No rodeos for a few weeks (ERIC) but that book gave me such STRENGTH and motivation that the next day while shooting a fiesta I went from Day One out on the street along with everyone else to Day Two in the living room of the family who was sponsoring the Fiesta! So great to be welcomed in by strangers and given such access. I was used to that in India but haven’t had it here in the US much.

    On the subject of KIDS there was a husband and wife at the fiesta, both photographers who are absolutely the poster couple for this topic. There were processions as part of the fiesta and Sunday the husband was pulling a wagon with his two daughters in it WHILE shooting the procession. This morning his wife had one kid on her back and the other holding her hand while she was shooting. They made it look totally fun!

  • p.s. BOB cool that you know about 10th street. My husband has been there. I recall JFK Jr was a regular. Of course it’s been there FOREVER.

  • Cathy;

    I have the book too, it’s wonderful. I also have a copy of an early book of his work from the Basque country. Another great book…

    If you can find a reasonably priced copy of “The Photographic Essay” grab it! It’s a workshop in a book!

    Cheers.

  • PANOS or anyone who is good with identifying songs…

    I heard a GREAT “psych onself up before a shoot” song on the radio the other night. It pumped me for taking KILLER SHOTS. The lyrics were SHOOT TO KILL but that wasn’t the title of the song. Sounded like Guns and Roses…80’s rock.

    Anyone know what this song is? Who sings it?

  • Cathy;

    I think you may be talking about “Shoot to Thrill” by ACDC (A good Aussie band). And the soundtrack of my youth…..

  • for the record, I didn’t have a headache :))))))))

  • DAH! and anyone interested…

    I just finished scanning my Demolition Derby photos. This is the first time I’ve attempted a story. Can you please let me know if you see anything here?

    http://www.spencerlloydphoto.com/dd.shtml

    Thanks so much!

    sl

  • ROSS…

    You DA MAN tonight! That’s the song. Angus, not Axl…I should have known. Even better…I’ll listen to it to inspire THRILLING shots…yes, I know the song isn’t about photography :))

    Should I get the ringtone? There’s one available :))

    I see The Photographic Essay at Amazon and Albris. Will get it asap. Thanks!

  • P.S. I realize Angus isn’t singing but somehow I think of him when I think of AC/DC.

  • Dear Angelo’

    I have no idea why you wrote this comment to me, I’ve just read your post “I hate David Alan Harvey” I see no problem that you are 37, I’ve started when I was 27, there is only 10 years differens and seven to salgado. So I hope you quicky find your photography. If you start so late you should not quit that.
    I am not hate DAH larry towell or alex webb only myself.
    Age can’t be excuses, because on the world live many photographers who started when tey was 7-8 and they did nothing special.
    So now is start to hard work.

    peace
    …………..

    Dear Marcin Luczkowski,

    The post “I hate David Alan Harvey” on my blog was just a different way to say David is a great photographer and an inspiration to me, to all of us.

    But I do envy the way he portrays people. I’m just not that good yet at photographing people. :-)

    By the way I love the pictures he’s done on his assignments here in Brazil. Check them out.

    Posted by: Angelo de Assis | August 11, 2008 at 03:29 PM

  • Shoot to thrill
    way to kill
    can’t get enough
    can’t get my fill…
    pull the trigger.

    That’s a photography song if I’ve ever heard one. :))

  • shoot to thrill
    PLAY to kill

  • David,

    Can you elaborate a little?: “. . . some of my contemporaries who were free free free, squandered their “freedom” and ended up with much less “freedom” in the long run…”

    Also, are you around right now in NYC and/or will you be in Perpignan?

    Thank you.

    Davin

  • PATRICIA

    Thanks for the link on the MEM workshop. Er… “Robert” reminds me a bit of Steve Mc Curry, if taller…

    OLYMPICS:

    Thanks Katrina for taking my remarks in good humour. If I agreed with everyone else, it wouldn’t be me…. ;-)

    Eric, the difference between most french olympians and US is that the french find getting the silver is not that bad after all, and the US hate that metal. So, If “after all”, then “before the race”, too… It’s like photography, good enough is not just below good, it’s….Defeat!

    I found a FREE microsoft software (silverlight) that does broadcast LIVE competitions. not the super mediatic sports, but more arcane stuff, like fencing, judo, weightlifting, etc… kinda cool.

    CATHY, how come rodeo is not an olympic sport!……

    OK, guys, talk amongst yourself, I am going to watch some Canoe now!!! :-))))))))

  • PATRICIA

    thanks for the notes.. you’re such a cool chick.

    love the photos as well.. mainly for the expressions on students faces while their work is viewed.. great to see what kind of thing to expect from a workshop..
    i absolutely agree with her about shooting film for B&W.. it’s so easy and cheap to process and batch scan.. well worth it for the extra depth.

    ACDC.. brilliant.. it’s been a while…

    PANOS said “magnum” is this blog…!

    right then.. lets start an agency.. we’ll call it harvey and feed it daily with a diet of photos and grumbles.
    given that there are so many ‘brothers and sisters’ here it’ll be akin to a monastic life..

    sunny in norway as you all sleep.
    d

  • Ok, so I haven’t quite left yet. I thought since this post is about FAMILY, I thought I should post some NEW WORK…

    A hand full of images that were recently uploaded to PhotoShelter in no particular order can be seen here;

    http://www.photoshelter.com/gallery-slideshow/G0000R7MJuB3I3UE/

    I’ve got loads more to get through over the coming weeks. I think there’s some good material here. Hopefully in October I can knock it into some shape as a feature in it’s own right.

    ‘Till later then…
    Paulyman

    photo@paultreacy.com

  • SPENCER….

    i took a look at your link to “Mangled” and checked out your site overall..

    first, your website was so so slow opening pictures, at least on my computer, that had i not been up drinking coffee at 3am because of my Euro jet lag, i would normally have given up looking in sheer frustration…but, that is not about you or your work, just the site…

    i think you know i give as “straight” a critique as i can with the sole intention of making your work stronger…please take it in that light….

    “Mangled” is a great title and potential subject…however, you might be able to come up with an even better title after considering some of the thoughts to follow…

    i do not know how often these events take place , but you should go back and get “on it”…this is perversely a very interesting subject and so so representative of American culture run amok and people with just too much time on their hands!!

    yet, if you do this “right”, it could be a truly great essay…but, you have just gotten started IF this is something you want to pursue…

    i would imagine you would have to go to at least 10 of these “smashups” to really get a viable essay….so, first you must be willing to put in the time after having decided “is this really worth it?”…

    you and i have not had a conversation about where you want to go with your work…i only know you from a few brief exchanges here and from the work on your site…critique for me is always personal and best done when i know your motives and goals…lacking that, i will do my best to just give you some quick observations..this should be eventually a longer discussion..

    right off, when looking at your site, i see a photographer trying to find his voice..you are all over the place with “style”..that is, you need to decide which Spencer is the real Spencer..there are “too many of you” to have anyone look at your work and say “ah yes, i see where he is going”..having said that, there are some real gems in there…but you need to move in just one direction for awhile anyway to establish a “look” and a “style”…only by talking to you in person could i really really figure out the best way for you to go, so i will just chat a moment about “Mangled” only…

    the first thing i thought when i looked at these pictures is “where is everybody?”..finally i saw i think one picture showing the crowd and you need to explore them much much more…you do have one great picture of a couple sitting alone looking at the cars from the back, but in general i have no idea how the “FANS” are reacting to this event…

    then the most OBVIOUS thing is MISSING….the cars actually CRASHING into each other…i think you only have one picture of this..and this just needs to be more dramatic, clear, and forceful…in other words, to show to someone who has no idea what this crazy sport is all about, “what in hell is actually going on here?”

    you do have some really fine portraits of, i assume, the drivers…the guy standing on the car, the man through the link fence, and man with cigarette and several others do give us some idea of who drives these cars in an effort to totally disable another…these portraits are your best work..

    and there are some good “detail pictures” as well showing bent metal and destruction…but, again, you really need to “nail this to the wall”…make those pictures truly dramatic…yes, the smashed car is dramatic by nature, but your pictures need to be photographs in and of themselves…

    having a picture of drama is not necessarily having a dramatic photograph…two totally different things…

    this is a basic concept that eludes so many photographers…once you get a handle on this reality , you can move forward…

    this is not a story of subtlety…this is materialistic “WAR” and these men and women driving are GLADIATORS..try to make them such…

    now Spencer, you have potential, potential and potential with this essay…could be handled as a “straight photojournalistic” essay OR as a truly symbolic piece on DESTRUCTION….a sport about trying to destroy something…in this case the beloved American automobile…the possibilities for metaphor are endless..

    only you can decide if this is going to be just another “event picture story” good enough for a newspaper picture page or a “visual novel” representational of a collapsing culture…

    think about it….

    cheers, david

  • PAUL…..MARCIN…

    it must be my computer or whatever…nothing is loading with any degree of speed…loading at about the speed that makes you want to throw your computer out the window!!!

    so , be patient gentlemen…i will look at your work as soon as i can see it …..

    cheers, david

  • DAVID

    Maybe you have to refresh it. My website is simple html. No loading. just pictures. But no problem have a look when you will have time.

  • You’ve got a bad connection. Maybe your machine is also suffering jet lag.

    Ok, back to my two lads. We are waiting for two more white products to be delivered. It could take hours which will drive me bananas as I really want to go out and play. Our stuff still hasn’t arrived from the States so we are camping in our flat. The echo is terrible and it just makes the boys even more frenetic.

    Rest easy David, if possible.

  • PATRICIA,

    I really appreciate your quotes from MEM. And also the pictures during the reviews! Very interesting as you can feel the atmosphere and what was going on.

    Thank you so much! Interesting and at least for me, encouraging, as right now I’m starting to “dust” my files (that where sleeping in my HD) and I’m preparing all my work for finally show it around. No more fears. I have to go out there and… learn!

    “Everything is derivative, but you are yourself, an original” ;-)

    Peace,

    Ana

  • …”or a “visual novel” representational of a collapsing culture…”

    Wow! There’s food for thought.

  • DAVID,

    Definitely you are under jet lag… Good morning!!

    I was reading this comment of yours: “i hope it is obvious to you that is exactly what i am trying to do here with EPF…by raising as much dinero as i can to help fund at least a few of you…surely, only a minor drop in the proverbial bucket, but a brick in the wall is a brick in the wall…”

    And well, I wonder if it we can already submit the new essay for the ” EPF 2nd edition”. By this time last year you already gave us instructions to do it (number of pictures, deadline and ftp address to submit the images).

    Peace & Love!
    Ana

  • DAVIN…

    didn’t you ask the freedom question before and didn’t i answer it before???? hmmmm, maybe it was someone else..in any case, my use of my time in my mid twenties , BECAUSE i was suddenly married with children , took me from a potentially “disadvantaged scenario”, with regard to becoming a serious photographer, to an “advantaged scenario” because i was forced to either “sink or swim”…i am not by nature always a good “time manager”, but i did do it then…

    changed diapers, went to class, shot my own work in between…

    a few of my talented friends, assuming they had all the time in world, squandered their time, went to the party, played, and when one in particular hit thirty had almost nothing to show for the 8 yrs of “freedom” he had from college to his personal “day of reckoning”…

    i am in New York only today…later this afternoon i head down to the Outer Banks of Carolina for my annual two weeks with my family at the beach..yup, it was during last year’s “vacation” that i came up with the EPF idea and therefore gave myself a whole lot of work for the rest of the year!!! this year, i will just relax and play on the beach…no “good ideas” to come!!!

    i do have a room reserved in Perpignan…but, my schedule is so so tight, i may have to back out at the last minute…Perpignan this year bumps right up against my NY loft workshop and i will not leave NY if Marie and Mike need me to help with last minute prep for the students coming in from everywhere to take my most important class…

    Davin, you may call me anytime….i will be in New York and more or less free from say sept 6-12 and again the third week in sept too when i will be taking a break from the two workshops we are doing…

    oct, nov, dec i will be in and out…mostly out on the family project…

    i would like to meet with you and i am not at all intentionally elusive (just the opposite), but i just get really really busy….so, you just have to “stay on my case” …those who want to come in my door, do manage to get in my door…

    wishing we meet soonest….

    cheers, david

  • Could I take your room in Perpignan then?! Just kidding!

  • Wow! David you are do travel A LOT!!!!

    How can I get to do a loft workshop with you???

    Hmm, well that’s where I am today–30 years-old and up against my personal ‘day of reckoning’. . . literally! Mom is a pretty upset that ‘it’s taking so long’ for me to launch my career and I am going crazy reading articles like here on a Photoeditor.com about how to prepare one’s portfolio, to use plastic sleeves or not??? (ha ha ha just kidding):

    http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/08/07/chris-mcpherson-stopped-by-to-show-his-portfolio/

    and on PDN about ‘modernizing the photojournalism aesthetic’:

    http://www.pdnonline.com/pdn/features/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003833926

    I guess I just got to go meet the NYC editors and get it over with since that’s the only way to get jobs and not fret too much about the portfolio as long as it is as tight as possible.

  • Hey! I still need a room in perpignan, I also want it! :D

    Just kidding too. I DO want David to keep the room and be there as I DO want to see youuuuuuuu!!!

    I will probably be there at the beginning of the profesional week, maybe 1-2-3 of september. Maybe too short time, maybe enough. Never know….

    Still hope to see you there, David. I don’t lose hope…

  • ANA….

    yes, there will be coming up “instructions” for applying for EPF funding….mostly, however, it is from the links and assignments here and general knowledge i have of all of you that will “set the stage”…

    this year i will appoint a jury to look at all links …. but, i am still trying to figure out exactly how i want to do this…it could be that i will just give out an EPF at any time..or, i could come up with a specific date as i did last year…since there is no “big organization” behind all of this, i can pretty much set it up as i see fit depending on many factors including my time to make it all happen…anyway, i will do my best to make sure i have a good idea of everyone’s work, projects etc…

    the best thing for everyone to do is to make sure i know their work….anyone who has their link up now in the “student work” section of this forum will be viewed carefully….that was the only space i had for people to put their links and i may come up with a better place, but for now that is THE PLACE….

    cheers, david

  • Hello David,
    I would have liked a lot meeting you. I am sure that it will be the possible next time. If you had to return in France, and if I am enough warned early (minimum a month!) so that I can reserve my tickets of transport (the prizes of the transport burn in the last minute), I can find you.
    I wish you pleasant holidays in family.
    Kind regards, Audrey

  • DAVID et all:

    It’s nice to see you up before America awakes;-)

    I think you might have missed my posting yesterday as it was the last post before moving to a new page. In any event I want to bring two recent articles to your attention.

    One, today in the NY TImes, “Photography as a Weapon” by Errol Morris. Sound familiar!

    http://morris.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/11/photography-as-a-weapon/index.html/?th&emc=th

    Two, today I posted on my blog about the “conceptual” vs. “tried and true” photography debate you brought up last week. I hope you’ll make that a separate topic some time when you have some time.

    Also, I hope you don’t mind me reposting your comments in my blog posting entitled “More Consolidation”. If it is a problem, let me know and I’ll take it down. The link to my blog posting is here:

    http://dokumentaryfotografr.blogspot.com/

    On a related note to the style debate, also mentioned in the blog posting, Martin Parr seems to be in full agreement with you. Here’s the article from PDN Online with an interview regarding this topic.

    http://www.pdnonline.com/pdn/features/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003833926

    Enjoy! As always, a pleasure.

    best,
    Charlie

  • DAVIN…

    well, the New York workshop is totally designed for the talented photographer with experience who is trying to take the “next step” and show his/her work to editors, gallerists, publishers etc…individual projects and day to day critique of the shooting of these projects is our “raison d’etre”..

    i have a few editors, iconic photogs, book publishers who show up in my loft and mix with the students etc. during the week and a whole bunch who show up for the final student slide show and fiesta…lots of pressure, lots of exposure too…

    the only difference between actually taking a formal class with me and what you can squeeze out of me here online or by just knocking on my door is that i drop everything and just concentrate on my students…intense…in general, i am as accessible as possible..a workshop only “guarantees” that i am accessible for an entire week…check out the link under “student work/workshops” if you think you might benefit…

    30 is certainly not old…and who knows how 30 became such a BIG NUMBER..not a real one of course but it does just get stuck in the minds of parents in particular…nobody should rush panic stricken to get their “act together” before 30 or feel badly if at 50 they still have a lot to do…on the other hand, time IS our most important asset and all of us do have to “move on it” regardless of age..

    tell your mom that my mom still wonders how i will “turn out”….

    peace, david

  • DAVIN:

    Sorry, I missed your posting on Martin Parr. I just saw it now. In any event we think a like.

    DAVID:

    I just saw your comments to Ana. I was awaiting further instructions on the plan of a second assignment, but I have to admit I haven’t had time to follow all your postings of late, so I’m a bit in the dark also.

    Has the second round of assignment dissolved away or evolved in to a just work on your own, post when you want feedback type of thing?

    cheers,
    Charlie

  • CHARLIE….

    i have zero problem with you re-posting…and i love the mind of Errol Morris…thanks…yes, i had seen the Martin Parr piece before…

    yes, the first assignments sort of ended up blending with the second and some of the firsts never got done etc etc..

    so, i will post all “done assignments” here within the next couple of weeks and see where we stand…however, i will look at good assignment projects whenever they come in…i did post a list of where we are on all of this a few posts back..

    finished assignments here will definitely have a “leg up” in terms of presentation to the EPF jury, but there is always the possibility of a photographer just coming up with a brilliant random essay unseen by all of us..unlikely , but possible…again, i am trying to build relationships with photographers rather than have just another grant given out with no connection for the future…

    cheers, david

  • AUDREY…

    please do not worry…i PROBABLY WILL go to Perpignan…i just cannot say 100% for sure..i certainly hope we will meet because i like your work very much….

    cheers, david

  • David et al,

    Maybe someone has already mentioned Larry Towell too — it takes a special talent, I think, to make family one’s ‘subject’, to create body of work that is both family record but also sufficiently detached to rise above its origins and become ‘universal’. Oddly enough, when my daughters were small I never considered this possible. Everything looked like ‘family snaps’ and I had neither the time nor the energy to photograph family in any serious way.

    In fact, it is only in the past six years or so, now that my kids are grown and the demands of care are less, that I have returned to photography with renewed interest and focus… And odder too that one of the recent projects I have photographed has been kids and staff at work and play in various voluntary-run ‘after school clubs’. That has been oddly satisfying and I hope the pictures show that to some degree:

    http://35mil.blogspot.com/2008/08/playground-faces.html

    http://35mil.blogspot.com/2008/07/for-some-time-now-i-have-been.html

    http://35mil.blogspot.com/2008/07/in-this-post-i-included-some-pictures.html

    http://35mil.blogspot.com/2008/06/world-from-his-front-porch.html

    regards–
    alun

  • morning ALL

    just catching up on the reading during my rainy vacation..

    I am taking a ‘middle way’ to experience photographing while with family, and it has been fun as a break from the project which I will be back to next week..am shooting with 35mm as I would if I were still 6 years old. basically am having fun remembering the things that made me smile at that age..I even put color in the camera, it’ all just to stay loose and see differently for a break..

    DAH

    I should wrap shooting for the assignment the first week in September, and then will spend some more time getting audio. Shall we plan to get together when you are home the third week in September for me to show you what I have?

    hugs to all..

  • ERICA….

    yes, perfect….

    cheers, david

  • DAVID

    As always, your review of the work of one of us helped us all. I’m referring to your in-depth review of Spencer’s “Mangled” project. So much to think about in relation to ALL of our projects! BTW Spencer lives in NYC so when a window of time opens & you’re home, you’ll be able to do a person-to-person review of his work.

    Thanks for taking the time to check out my latest SPs. I’ve added the bus & book on seat pics to my tight edit, but the motel shot didn’t fit…at least not yet. For now it will stay in my back-up files.

    I’ve been trying to stay open to ideas for a title and found one possibility in the introduction to a book on Magnum photographers that I bought at ICP. “The Poetry of Life’s Reality,” a quote by Henri Cartier-Bresson.

    Have a wonderful time at the beach with your family. Yes, it’s time to settle down to some serious sun ‘n surf!

    hugs
    Patricia

  • ANA

    It was my first workshop review too so I know how it can help to have some idea ahead of time as to how it’s going to look. Glad my pics helped you prepare. Your work is excellent, Ana, so I’m sure it will be a positive experience for you. Enjoy it!

    Patricia

  • ERIC….

    go ahead and vent!!! believe me i know the frustration….it is just as hard for me as it is for you…

    photography appears easy….particularly in the digi age…anybody can take a “nice picture” without any historical references or even any tech knowledge whatsoever…

    taking photography to a higher level is just like taking anything to a higher level…HARD…..period.

    but, you are working on it and i admire your guts and gumption for doing so and always in your “spare time” from your normal happy job!!!

    when you have taken the boxing essay along a bit further we should meet one on one…

    i am actually trying to figure out some way to get Lance and Bob and Erica and Jonathan and James and Patricia and Panos and Chris and Andrew and Katia and David and Kyunghee and Marcin and all the others who are doing essays here on the forum in one place at one time…a seminar for all of the essayists here…can you imagine??? we would need a sponsor for these expenses etc. but anyway a nice thought…i will think on it…

    anyway, just keep going…that next level for you is the hardest one of all…and , by the way, that particular struggle is never over!!!

    the good news…you ARE going somewhere my friend…you and the others are creating bodies of work of which we will all be very proud…it may not look like it just this minute, but i am confident in the final result…just as in our workshops together , i can see the collaboration starting to “work”…the choreography of all of this coming together…

    ok, you go work….meanwhile, i am going on vacation to the beach!!!

    nice guy huh????

    cheers et al, david

  • CHARLIE

    We met at Look3 I believe. . . short of reinventing photojournalism a la Pellegrin, the easier way out I have come to believe is to do ad work in one’s documentary style on the side.

    Just check out:

    http://www.billcharles.com/main/index.htm

    Yes, Antonin Kratochvil is shooting ads for Ray Ban and Pilsner Urquel beer in exactly the same b&w style he uses for photo essays. Simply brilliant! Lots of $$$

    DAVID

    That is one good line. I am laughing: “tell your mom that my mom still wonders how i will “turn out”….”

  • PATRICIA, DAVID, ALL..

    Regarding the quotes from MEM..

    ” “I’m a purist. I’m reality-based, only use film and never crop. You must understand your frames.”

    MEM is very film-oriented but said you can take great pics with a point & shoot. If we shoot digital she recommended we tape over our LCD screen so we won’t “chimp,” ie., look at our shots after we take them. In her opinion, B&W images should ALWAYS be film whereas color can be created with digital. But if you start a project in color, stay with color. Film gives a different quality to a print: “It is timeless.””

    I’m glad I wasn’t at this workshop.
    Pay to hear that crap! I thought top photographers were over the whole film and crop thing. I shoot both digital and film, but I guess my converted digital b&w images are not the real deal then… Not Katharinas images either? Even Pellegrin and Majoli b&w pics are not the real thing?
    I thinks it’s all down to the mindset when you shoot the image.

    Cheers

  • MARTIN BRINK..

    i am running out now, and just saw your comment ..so, i just have time for a rushed response…

    surely, this is just semantic lack of communication or mis-interpretation

    i am assuming that what MEM meant was that for HER film represented the “real thing”..a personal choice, not a “blanket statement” for everyone…she would no doubt respect the “real thing” work of Pellegrin and Majoli…

    frankly, i am using med format film for my black & white work because i do think that the prints just really are different than what i have been able to print in b&w from digi..i am talking about collectors prints…not what would look good in a book or magazine…..for publication, i doubt few can tell the difference..

    BUT, if someone showed me different, and i expect someone could, then i would be “all over” whatever process that happened to be that made b&w look great from digi…i have even been experimenting a bit with converting a digi file to film and making either silver or platinum prints..

    in any case, it is the picture itself that matters to most of us most of the time…only for museum shows or galleries with specific collector buyers might film make a real difference and most likely only in b&w…and surely this “difference” is disappearing by the day as technology moves forward…

    yes, Pellegrin and Majoli and perhaps you too sell prints to collectors …so, in the end, it is all personal choice, the whims of art buyers, etc etc….

    peace et al, david

  • DAVID,

    A seminar for all of the essayists together would simply be AMAZING….Thanks for your words of encouragement….Helpful to know that this does not come easy to anyone…. After cheering me up, I have to agree that you are a nice guy :):) and you are allowed to rest at the beach :):)…

    Have fun there and bring us back some cool family pictures!

    Cheers,

    Eric

  • David, we’ll probably see more services like this popping up:

    http://www.digitalsilverimaging.com/

  • david m

    i had some prints done for my exhibition and they were done with a all black and white printer. inkjet though… but it was a total of 8 print heads all printing different tones of black and white and grey… but this is pretty cool stuff…

  • EVERYBODY

    Tying together the themes of family-marriage-kids and travelling photojournalists, along with ‘camera as a weapon’, the new forms of visual-storytelling mixing stills and video, etc. all in one project… see the fascinating 20 minute long video interview with Ed Kashi and his wife (and get her side of the story as well) in the newest issue of the Digital Journalist just online today:

    http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0808/kashi-mov.html

    It’s attached to Kashi’s gallery story on oil in the NIger Delta. Very apropos to most of what has been discussed here over the last couple of weeks.

    Cheers,

  • DAVID:

    ok, this will be brief…BLOG is full blown, so you got your hands filled now ;))…just some quick notes:

    1) finished final version of ORDINARY THINGS..sent it to foto8 (we’ll see what they say)…sent you a copy to read (at the beach) at your leasure…

    2) will finish (i hope) the writing part of Bones this weekend …

    3) marina and i will call u next week…plans changed for end of august (dima comes home that weekend from Moscow)…plus, this means you dont have to run back from family reunion/beach to meet us…will call you: i have some thoughts about when to come down..

    4) PERPIGNAN;…i want to introduce you to 2 people: 1 photographer who will be there and 1 person from VU…both will be good friends and good contacts for you :))))…

    5) flat out exhausted….

    6) will write Michael next week, im guessing i can dump my essay (pics and essay) to him via FTP so you can see some of the pics and we’ll discuss when i come…i’ll be ready to feed you something in 2 weeks…

    7) hugs from marina…

    8) going away now for a few days…

    hugs
    running
    bob

  • DAVID, All

    I just think my self that we all have many different problems with our photography; For someone it is famili and kids, for someone money, jobs for bills, lack of time or films or theme or age or equipment or whatever…
    I have many problems with my photography also, but this is details, nothing important.
    I think my main problem is that my photography is useless.
    Nobody need it.
    some exhibition where come 50 people…
    few sold prints…
    my stupid website..
    publications only commercial stuff…

    I am prepering now to start some big social essay abut my country, work with people burn my mind, but I am worry that it will be like with my transsexual project, many people sadi ‘if we will write something about transsexual persons we will buy one or two pictures 30$ per one’.
    Like I said my photography is useless and it killing my photography more than famili kids money or whatever killing photography.

    peace

  • MARTIN BRINK, DAVID & ALL

    Regarding MEM’s assertion that ONLY film should be used for B&W, this was her MUCH REPEATED mantra. No, she was not just talking about HER work; she was talking about EVERYONE’S work. Trust me, I did not misinterpret what she was saying. She is a FILM photographer and that’s the bottom line.

    But to put things in perspective, MEM is a great photographer, a gifted teacher, totally present to her students, accessible & available, good at working with amateurs and professionals alike, and has an exceptionally keen eye. She is also highly opinionated, set in her ways, and tends to hold grudges.

    So Mary Ellen Mark is a complex individual like so many of us. When one takes her or ANYONE’S workshop for that matter, you don’t buy the whole of it. You listen carefully, watch for the nuggets, and take in what will be of value to YOU. The notes I shared are not THE TRUTH, they are simply what I heard Mary Ellen Mark say on one day in August.

    I only shoot digi myself. Don’t even own a film camera. When MEM looked at my work, she was NOT concerned with that fact. She responded to my WORK, not to the camera I used to create that work. In her review she said nothing to me about film vs. digi; it was ALL about the work itself, the photos, where I was coming from, where I was going, the meaning behind what I was doing.

    Personally I found her workshop valuable on many levels. Wouldn’t have missed it for the world actually. Part of that was due to MEM, but part of it was just being with this amazing variety of serious photographers. We formed a close, supportive community in two short days. I know some of us will remain friends for life.

    This whole trip, including MEM’s workshop, two days in the Catskill Mts. with my niece & her partner, two days in NYC meeting up with my blog friends, seeing amazing photos at MoMA & ICP, & doing some street shooting, and four days by myself on the road changed me, both as a photographer and a person. And I’m grateful for it all…

    Patricia

  • Hi Marcin,

    I read your comment above and there is my view. You should practice your art because not doing so would make you feel incomplete. Don’t worry about the reception of your work by other people…Photography is a way for me to live the experience to meeting with someone, sharing a slice of life…it is a personal act…very good if other people want to share your art with you. But this should not be your ultimate goal…unless of course you want to be a frustrated person all your life.

    Arie

  • And yes, it is time yet again for another pointless screed from me bearing no relationship whatsoever with anything anyone is interested in! Huzzah! Huzzah! Huzzah!

    Yes, the times, they are a-changing, even here in our happy little burg, even though you wouldn’t know it to look at the old place. We don’t think much of change in this neck of the woods; what was good enough back in the day is good enough nowadays, that’s what most folks hereabouts think, and we prefer that people with new-fangled notions about how to do things keep their notions to themselves and let the rest of us be, thank you very much, or if the urge to go a-fangling their notions becomes too great, and let’s face it, sometimes it does and no cold shower will turn your mind to other, more uplifting subjects, that they then have the common decency to go across the river and fangle their notions on the unhappy inhabitants of the slough of urban despond that lies directly across the river from us. Living in any kind of slough is depressing enough and those people could use a good laugh every now and again. We dislike change so much here in our happy little burg that many of us refuse to change our moods if we can help it, and those people who can’t help but change their mood every so often will compensate for their distasteful lack of self-control by not changing their socks as often as they might, which often makes our town a bit easier for the confused motorist to find, especially during the summer months.

    Faced with cultural recalcitrance on such a massive scale, how do I know that the times are a-changing even here in our happy little burg? It’s the little things that give the game away. I was eating my lunch a few days ago in the Gnocchi Deli, something I do every day of the week, primarily because I hate change as much as the next person here and also because I lack imagination. The Gnocchi Deli is basically a hole in the wall you couldn’t force a pig to live in without half a dozen animal rights organizations and the municipal health department trying to close the place down posthaste, but they have the best mortadella sandwiches anywhere in town, and, in addition to this, the deli is the only Italian-themed eating establishment within the city limits actually owned by Italian Americans; Albanians own all the others, except for the two places owned by Mexicans (there’s great pizza at the Mexican places, though). As I sat there chewing upon my cud of miscellaneous pig parts, ruminating on the role pistachios play in the making of the perfect mortadella while listening to the radio emit the sound of a heavy metal band cacophonously smashing their instruments over the head of a stoned and semiliterate teenager from Shaker Heights, Ohio, to the tune, I think, of Cole Porter’s Night and Day, although it could have been J.S. Bach’s Brandenburg Concerto #6 in B flat major; I don’t follow popular music much anymore, sorry—my tastes here are still more or less frozen in 1975 and Springsteen’s Born to Run album; our happy little burg’s music teacher came in and bid me a good day.

    I am not a very sociable person, in the main; people who knew my father or know my younger brothers are often surprised when they meet me—they simply assume that gregariousness is the standard operating mode for all the male members of the Bashmachkin clan—and they seem somewhat perplexed to find that at least one member of the clan in not at all gregarious, but rather something of a dour, uncommunicative stick in the mud with better things to do with his time than sit around all day chatting with you. But if I am not a hail fellow well met, I do try to be civil to all and sundry, and then I surprised myself mightily by inquiring how her day was going, a question I don’t ask all that often, since, to be honest, I don’t really care how your day is going—I usually don’t care how my day is going, so long as it goes with minimal effort on my part. The other reason I don’t ask this question very often is that some people will take the opportunity that the question presents to tell you, often in excruciating detail, just how their day is going, up to and including the details of the colonoscopy they endured that very morning and all about the frightening thing the doctor found lodged in their viscera. You may provide your own drum roll here, if you feel the need. Suffice it to say that unless your gastroenterologist found glow in the dark Obama for President campaign posters epoxied to the walls of your large intestines, I don’t care what your doctor found stuck in your guts and I would just as soon not hear about it while I am trying to eat my mortadella sandwich. But our music teacher, a very nice and cheery lady known to one and all as Miss Susie, said that her day was going well for the most part, the even tenor of the hours complicated only by the need to get back to her studio and tune a dulcimer before one of her students arrived.

    There may have been more to the conversation; I don’t know. If there was, I’ve forgotten it completely. In that moment, in that smallest split second of time, to say that all of my gasts took an extreme flabbering would be to make the understatement of the millennium, a fairly easy trick at this moment, given that we’re only seven years into the new millennium, but the principle is the same: I was stunned. I don’t believe I had ever contemplated the possibility that someone here in our happy little burg would ever use the word dulcimer in a sentence outside a high school English class discussing whether or not the Abyssinian maid in Samuel Taylor Coleridge’s ‘Kubla Khan’ was angling for a record contract. And yet there Miss Susie stood, in about as nonpedagogical a setting as you can imagine, waiting patiently for her chicken salad sandwich, not only using the word in a normal conversation, but with an actual dulcimer stuffed somewhere in her tiny Main Street studio waiting for a tune-up and a tire rotation, along with, no doubt, a lute, a gamba, and an electric psaltery with iodized stereophonic amplification, the better for her students to blast out heavy metal covers of the greatest hits of 1139 at their graduation recitals.

    I guess I shouldn’t have been surprised. Our town is changing, whether us old-timers like it or not. Thirty years ago, the word dulcimer would not have come up in any context in any conversation you could think of. I doubt that high school students would have known what the word meant, as most of them didn’t bother to read the poem for their 9 AM English class the next morning, choosing to spend the evening watching the prodigiously jiggling racks on Charlie’s Angels jiggling prodigiously instead. Today, dulcimers not only come up in everyday conversations, there’s someone in town that actually knows how to tune one. Now, I don’t expect that Main Street will suddenly fill with dulcimer repair shops run by medievalists named Lenny who spend the day discussing the comparative virtues of the Guelph and Ghibelline causes before they shake their heads apologetically and tell you that not only will your dulcimer not pass the mandatory state inspection, it will cost you $500 in parts and labor just to put the damn thing back together again, but I do expect that this ongoing gentrification will continue apace, and our decidedly blue-collar happy little burg will never be the same place again. I don’t think that new vegan restaurant is going to last, though; change is one thing, but having our sensibilities assaulted in this fashion is quite another. The side order of smug that comes with every entrée in that place leaves a bitter aftertaste in our mouths.

  • I think that Typepad just choked on my last post! Let’s try this again…

    Yes, the times, they are a-changing, even here in our happy little burg, even though you wouldn’t know it to look at the old place. We don’t think much of change in this neck of the woods; what was good enough back in the day is good enough nowadays, that’s what most folks hereabouts think, and we prefer that people with new-fangled notions about how to do things keep their notions to themselves and let the rest of us be, thank you very much, or if the urge to go a-fangling their notions becomes too great, and let’s face it, sometimes it does and no cold shower will turn your mind to other, more uplifting subjects, that they then have the common decency to go across the river and fangle their notions on the unhappy inhabitants of the slough of urban despond that lies directly across the river from us. Living in any kind of slough is depressing enough and those people could use a good laugh every now and again. We dislike change so much here in our happy little burg that many of us refuse to change our moods if we can help it, and those people who can’t help but change their mood every so often will compensate for their distasteful lack of self-control by not changing their socks as often as they might, which often makes our town a bit easier for the confused motorist to find, especially during the summer months.

    Faced with cultural recalcitrance on such a massive scale, how do I know that the times are a-changing even here in our happy little burg? It’s the little things that give the game away. I was eating my lunch a few days ago in the Gnocchi Deli, something I do every day of the week, primarily because I hate change as much as the next person here and also because I lack imagination. The Gnocchi Deli is basically a hole in the wall you couldn’t force a pig to live in without half a dozen animal rights organizations and the municipal health department trying to close the place down posthaste, but they have the best mortadella sandwiches anywhere in town, and, in addition to this, the deli is the only Italian-themed eating establishment within the city limits actually owned by Italian Americans; Albanians own all the others, except for the two places owned by Mexicans (there’s great pizza at the Mexican places, though). As I sat there chewing upon my cud of miscellaneous pig parts, ruminating on the role pistachios play in the making of the perfect mortadella while listening to the radio emit the sound of a heavy metal band cacophonously smashing their instruments over the head of a stoned and semiliterate teenager from Shaker Heights, Ohio, to the tune, I think, of Cole Porter’s Night and Day, although it could have been J.S. Bach’s Brandenburg Concerto #6 in B flat major; I don’t follow popular music much anymore, sorry—my tastes here are still more or less frozen in 1975 and Springsteen’s Born to Run album; our happy little burg’s music teacher came in and bid me a good day.

    I am not a very sociable person, in the main; people who knew my father or know my younger brothers are often surprised when they meet me—they simply assume that gregariousness is the standard operating mode for all the male members of the Bashmachkin clan—and they seem somewhat perplexed to find that at least one member of the clan in not at all gregarious, but rather something of a dour, uncommunicative stick in the mud with better things to do with his time than sit around all day chatting with you. But if I am not a hail fellow well met, I do try to be civil to all and sundry, and then I surprised myself mightily by inquiring how her day was going, a question I don’t ask all that often, since, to be honest, I don’t really care how your day is going—I usually don’t care how my day is going, so long as it goes with minimal effort on my part. The other reason I don’t ask this question very often is that some people will take the opportunity that the question presents to tell you, often in excruciating detail, just how their day is going, up to and including the details of the colonoscopy they endured that very morning and all about the frightening thing the doctor found lodged in their viscera. You may provide your own drum roll here, if you feel the need. Suffice it to say that unless your gastroenterologist found glow in the dark Obama for President campaign posters epoxied to the walls of your large intestines, I don’t care what your doctor found stuck in your guts and I would just as soon not hear about it while I am trying to eat my mortadella sandwich. But our music teacher, a very nice and cheery lady known to one and all as Miss Susie, said that her day was going well for the most part, the even tenor of the hours complicated only by the need to get back to her studio and tune a dulcimer before one of her students arrived.

    There may have been more to the conversation; I don’t know. If there was, I’ve forgotten it completely. In that moment, in that smallest split second of time, to say that all of my gasts took an extreme flabbering would be to make the understatement of the millennium, a fairly easy trick at this moment, given that we’re only seven years into the new millennium, but the principle is the same: I was stunned. I don’t believe I had ever contemplated the possibility that someone here in our happy little burg would ever use the word dulcimer in a sentence outside a high school English class discussing whether or not the Abyssinian maid in Samuel Taylor Coleridge’s ‘Kubla Khan’ was angling for a record contract. And yet there Miss Susie stood, in about as nonpedagogical a setting as you can imagine, waiting patiently for her chicken salad sandwich, not only using the word in a normal conversation, but with an actual dulcimer stuffed somewhere in her tiny Main Street studio waiting for a tune-up and a tire rotation, along with, no doubt, a lute, a gamba, and an electric psaltery with iodized stereophonic amplification, the better for her students to blast out heavy metal covers of the greatest hits of 1139 at their graduation recitals.

    I guess I shouldn’t have been surprised. Our town is changing, whether us old-timers like it or not. Thirty years ago, the word dulcimer would not have come up in any context in any conversation you could think of. I doubt that high school students would have known what the word meant, as most of them didn’t bother to read the poem for their 9 AM English class the next morning, choosing to spend the evening watching the prodigiously jiggling racks on Charlie’s Angels jiggling prodigiously instead. Today, dulcimers not only come up in everyday conversations, there’s someone in town that actually knows how to tune one. Now, I don’t expect that Main Street will suddenly fill with dulcimer repair shops run by medievalists named Lenny who spend the day discussing the comparative virtues of the Guelph and Ghibelline causes before they shake their heads apologetically and tell you that not only will your dulcimer not pass the mandatory state inspection, it will cost you $500 in parts and labor just to put the damn thing back together again, but I do expect that this ongoing gentrification will continue apace, and our decidedly blue-collar happy little burg will never be the same place again. I don’t think that new vegan restaurant is going to last, though; change is one thing, but having our sensibilities assaulted in this fashion is quite another. The side order of smug that comes with every entrée in that place leaves a bitter aftertaste in our mouths.

  • Hi everyone,

    kinda back from Tuscany – physically at least. In short: an awsome experience! So intense – all of the students agree that we need some more time of reflection before being able to make a qualified resumee …

    Noticing, as we are mailing now across the world to clarify our thoughts about last week: David announced at the very beginning that he wanted to use this one week to make a family out of us. He managed that in 2 single days. And to call our group of 14 people “divers” would be an understatement! How he did it we do not know, but this is a family for life now. And I do not use these words ligthly.

    I started to pick out some (private) pictures I did, which I will put on my website. So if you are interested, you might get a little insight.

    It will not be an overall impression, because even though we were in this breathtakingly beautiful place, the hardest work was the mental part. The exhaustion comes less from the 3-4 hours of sleep each night, and much more from getting all this stuff, DAH confronted us with, into a neat own mental image.

    As a direct result of that: I have never since I started photographing taken less pictures in a week!! And I was on a photography workshop … I think this sais it all.

    By the way, this blog is a constant topic. Everybody seems to know about it.

    And I had the absolute pleasure of meeting Nacho personally! (Hi Nacho, are you there?!) A wonderful guy. I hope you all get the chance of meeting him too.

    Cheers!

  • PATRICIA, ALL: :))

    I love and respect MEM profoundly, profoundly love her work, but I would have to say RESPECTFULLY that that comment about only film should be used for b/w is TOTAL AND UTTER NONSENSE, PERIOD!….i am a film guy, only film for me, but i’ve never heard such a silly and superficial idea…as superficial as the luddites that think that film is superior to digital….

    some of the finest B/W work that i know is being done with digital cameras, printing digitally, etc….I’d asked MEM, respectfully, how much new work does she get around to seeing…and i’d ask her that as a film shooter myself…

    ditto the quote about Magnum ;))))…

    but like all people who preach (and im one of the most obnoxious preachers myself ;;)))!!), most of it is just to inspire or rile people…

    i love her work, but im not sure i could live (as a photographer) will all of that wisdom ;)))…then again, that why we should all seek our own genius, even when it is confused ;)))

    thanks for the words…

    running
    b

    p.s. AKAKY, i’ll read it on the weekend..

  • AKAKY MY MAN

    One of the few longish poems that in my youth I committed to memory was Coleridge’s “Kubla (sic) Khan’, and to prove it, I will transcribe here without referring to any text (I haven’t seen it in print in over twenty years) the last part of the poem wherein the ‘dulcimer’ appears: (You will notice that I also took the gross liberty to insert the word ‘softly’ into the third line which is not in the original, but in reciting it out loud over the years I became convinced that it scanned better, sounded better with that addition… blame it on the folk process)

    “A damsel with a dulcimer, in a vision once I saw
    Twas an Abyssinian maid, and on her dulcimer she played
    (Softly) singing of Mount Abora
    Could I revive within me, her symphony and song
    To such a deep delight twould win me, that with music loud and long
    I would build that dome in air- that sunny dome! those caves of ice!
    And all who heard should see them there
    And all should cry Beware! Beware!
    His flashing eyes, his floating hair!
    Weave a circle round him thrice
    And close your eyes with holy dread
    For he on honey-dew hath fed
    And drunk the milk of Paradise.”

    BUT, the question you left UNASKED (and consequently UNANSWERED) of your music teacher friend, and a crucial one (says I), is this: was it a hammered dulcimer that was waiting to be tuned (European and akin to the zither with many strings), or an Appalachian dulcimer (strummed and plucked, looking like a flat violin that has been stretched out and slimmed down, normally with only three strings). Because Coleridge was undoubtedly referring to the former, while I suspect (though of course I could be wrong) that the music teacher meant the latter since it has become quite a popular folk instrument in America, popularized by Jean Ritchie in the 1950s and early 60s and then later by Joni Mitchell. They are completely different instruments, in shape, sound, playing style, and the kind of music usually played on them. Now I suppose that if I could add the word ‘softly’, then you or someone else could change the ‘Abyssinian maid’ to an ‘Appalachian maid’… but that is artistic license that I for one am loath to grant even you dear Akaky.

  • DAVID

    i have even been experimenting a bit with converting a digi file to film and making either silver or platinum prints..
    ——————-

    That’s the idea!!!….. :-)))))))

    PATRICIA

    May I? Because your essay will be so personal, I do not think HCB’s quote works well, it’s a bit heavy as a sentence.

    In french, as he probably uttered it, he could have said “poetry of reality”, it would mean exactly the same (as we french conceive it, reality is always “de la vie”). OK, fine, definition of photography pretty much (he did not part the Dead Sea with that one!) so a bit fitting too easily so many essays, no?

  • martin..

    i think it’s a good thing to play about full-frame.. i believe it helps in some way.

    re- film versus digi..
    whatever floats your boat.
    different people get different things out of photography and peoples relative opinions don’t matter too much.. i’ll wager there was still a lot to be gained.

    you know – i much prefer using film .. it’s ‘better’ for me…

    MEM is suggesting her opinions and not telling people what to enjoy..

  • BOB

    Right on! (I love when you say it squarely and you should do it more often!)

    IMO, as far as technology, what is happening in photography is akin to when “silents” went “talkies”. Henri Langlois himself had much to say about that, and easily, over half of what he showed us, at the cinematheque classes, were “silents”.

    In short, The technology, Progress, killed the art.

    Except that in photography it is happening over a much longer period than in movies. The reason being that one lasting format of photography (vs film),ie. the print, gives old stuff much commercial value (like a painting, possibly).

    movies are more like old literature, if you can see/read them, who cares the format (soft or hard bounded, reel or DVD, etc…)?

    I would not have the insolence (figure of speech, I would actually…ahahah) of telling David, transferring digi to film is like muting a talkie.

    I understand very much his point of view, this is all happening in that in-between period, where the digi technology has not over-ridden the expectations that come from film.

    There will always be some art, some foundation to shoot film, and even 19th century-technique photography (they have sites on the net for such afficionados), but eventually, statements like MEM told her class, will prove a bit reactionary, read in the future.

    David had no such blanket statement, truly I suspect (suspicion again, BOB!) MEM is not a dogma person too. He indicated that in the future, things will most likely be otherwise, regarding prints, and David, you know my insolence is merely teasing the strings of your superbly well-tuned violin…. ;-)

  • DAH–

    David, thanks so much for looking. Yes, I know what your critiques are about and that’s exactly what I was looking for. I’m hoping the site slowness was just a temporary problem with your connection. And yeah, I know I’m all over the place. I live in NYC and would love to meet you and talk about motives and goals. I mentioned in an earlier post that I feel like I’m starting over right now. Learning everything like it’s all new. Actually very exciting.

    I’ve been to two Demo Derbies so far. The first was the introduction. I had no idea when I went that it would turn into a project. Did a few portraits and took a few photos of the cars but that’s it. It wasn’t until after the action that I realized what could potentially be done. So a couple of weeks later I went to the NJ State fair for my second Demo Derby. I actually called ahead to get permission to be on the track during the action. I took many photos of cars crashing, but this is definitely something I need to work on. I think first of all, the hasselblad is not built for action shots. And my vantage point was not good. I think I need to be higher shooting down. I tried to do some slow shutter shots to show motion, but… not so good. It might take a few Derbies before I figure out how to convey the action.

    I took several photos of the crowd. I actually turned my camera to the crowd and waited for the sound of a crash and the following cheer. Unfortunately all the real rowdies were in the back. I’ll learn with each event.

    The drivers and their crews have been great. They’ve all been really nice. They’re proud of their cars and the work they’ve put into them and they love to talk about it (and no, I haven’t recorded any of this!). And they do put a lot of work into their cars. The question is why does someone put so much work into something that will be destroyed in minutes? The prize money is nothing. And really, the actions lasts minutes.

    The Derbies for the most part seem to take place in the summer months and mainly at County and State fairs. Some speedways have them occasionally. It looks like I’ll get to three or four more this season. I definitely would prefer to go the “visual novel” route. It might take a few seasons to get that done, but man it’s fun work!

    Thanks again so much, and let me know if we can meet sometime.

    sl

  • Sorry, I meant to say that there are many more reasons why prints from film are still valuable, but it would take a book, and most chapters would be obsolete in 20 years. 30?

    Bob, I also forgot to erase that you “should do it more often”. You don’t have to do anything, that’s the beauty of it all, being on the blog.

  • marcin…

    you’re having a heavy one.. try not to get hung up there.

    your work is as valid as anyone elses and thinking about the money from a project might not be the best way about it… you have to do the work for the sake of love and need and enjoyment and satisfaction.

    i’ve organized editorial work and been paid 5 USD per photo.. it has cost me to do shoots on more occasions than i can mention.. everyone here, as you say, has our own relative worries..

    if you love your photography do not let it beat you.

    if you sometimes feel that the work will get you no where – join us all in singing a song about it.. :o)

    something DAH has mentioned before in a round about way..
    over time people fall away.. people either cannot stand the frustration, the lack of money or the lifestyle and disappear.. give up.
    the rate of attrition is high enough that if you stay doing your thing – enjoying your thing – for long enough, it cannot fail.. you will get satisfaction and you will feel success..
    most of us may not receive monetary success for the work we do.. the rewards are far more sublte, i think.

    keep on.
    i’m reminded of the song ..

    ‘How many times have
    You heard someone say
    If I had his money
    I could do things my way

    But little they know
    That it’s so hard to find
    One rich man in ten
    With a satisfied mind’

  • HERVE

    ;)))…

    i can be succinct, ….ocassionally ;))…

    running
    b

  • Herve ;)))

    dont worry, i usually dont follow “should” anyway ;)))))…(ask my wife, she bears the brunt of my wayward ways ;)) )…and, im much less obnoxious in real life and definitely much less preachy.. :))) (i think, you’ll have to ask Berube, as i think he’s the only blog member (at least the writers) that know me in real life :))….its probably a combination of wine (when i write here often) and masterbatory writing (blogging) and electronic silence (no faces, no voices) that make many of my rants/ravings look so supercilious or self-centered…

    “but im just a girl, living in captivity..:” ;))

    little ole me ;)))))

    ok, running…before i cant control myself from writing a long, circuitous riff on this sillyness that still plaques photography/photographers about digital vs film…the old “timelessnes” nonsense…if there is 1 art form, as you correctly pointed otu, that IS ABOUT INNOVATION/TECHNOLOGY, its photography…shit, photography IS ABOUT TECHNOLOGY (by definition)…how a photographer can refuse (out of hand) the idea of technological development just because of that develoment is beyond me…im totally with you…

    ok, gotta fly, gotta fly…

    running
    b

    bob

  • Arie, David B.

    Quick comment; hmmm guys I think I just need some real mission, not only “portfolio” shootiong or commerial assignment shooting. That’s all.
    David, it was only example, I didn’t wanted talkaing about paiyment for photos, but thanks for song :).
    ok. maybe thats just my next stupid imagine problems.
    but mission, real mission could be fine… ehhh

    ok must run. Thanks guys for comments.

  • david bowen,
    I somewhat agree, but if I want to get a more square format or I want to crop out 2-5% due to using a rangefinder or not 100% finder I’ll do that..
    Also if someones produces great work that’s cropped I couldn’t care less. It’s the FINAL RESULT that counts to me..

    Cheers

  • hey marcin..

    you’ll find it i’m sure.. having an overall goal will bring about less preasure on the individual assignments i think.. chipping away at a larger stone, as it were ..

    martin..

    again it’s different strokes.. for the end result.. you’re right about that being the important aspect of course.

    right – i’ve a pregnant lover to tuck into bed and more editing to do while i still have the time.

  • SIDNEY,

    I dont have a damn clue what kind of dulcimer it was; I was in a state of complete befuddlement caused by the word’s sudden appearance in a normal conversation and I didnt think to ask about its orientation, although in our politically correct times such a question might constitute a violation of the instrument’s civil rights. I (and my employers, I think) would just as soon not be in the middle of such a controversy.

  • DAVID

    Please give me a mailing address for you. I have some multimedia stuff to show you and it is too much to post on the web- I’ll send you a CD that’ll play on your Mac laptop. If you don’t want to post your mailing address here, email me at kyotosid@yahoo.com

    Enjoy your family vacation!

  • Hi DAH and all,

    I’ve been a bit MIA on the forum though I do check in and read through a bit every now and then. I was finishing up my new book and then off to Europe for a month long honeymoon.

    Timely topic as I will be a new dad come February. It will change my life as I know it. Fortunately my wife is the breadwinner, though that also places extra burden on me to be the primary caregiver. But ultimately I think it will make me and my work stronger and more personal (ala the last couple of topics). I am worried about my freedom to travel, and my age (I’m 44) but like anything those are challenges, not necessarily walls. I may need to find subjects closer to home, which is ultimately something that could be very positive.

    Speaking of my babies, my new book just arrived in the post! Once again powerHouse does a top notch printing job. It’s called “CYPHER” and is my series on contemporary breakdancing, almost all shot on medium format b&w. I’m esp happy as I made all the scans with my Imacon, and it actually turned out really good! No stinky darkroom! Anyway, here’s the link:

    http://www.powerhousebooks.com/book/437

    Anyway, I’ll try and stop in here more often as it’s such a great community of people.

    All the best,

    Charles

    PS: Hi Panos! I like the new work….keep it up! (yes, pun intended).

  • David,
    this is a little work I made using red…if you have a chance, take a look…saludos…Carlos

    http://chacharapr.blogspot.com/

  • To all-

    Well there no real shooting for me today but I actually went to the GYM to watch with my “boxing crowd” the first fight of Rau’shee Warren. You may have seen him but he is a kid from Cincinnati who started in the gym I have been going to recently and who was representing the US at the Olympics. All his friends were here to see the fight. Rau’shee is the first American boxer to compete in two Olympics since Davey Lee Armstrong in 1972 and 1976. This 21 years old “kid” took the gold at the 2007 World Championships. He actually was the youngest American on the 2004 Olympic team, but lost his only bout in Athens. He has been training very hard for the past four years to go again to the Olympics and this time win and achieve his and his mother’s dream…come home with the gold!! Unfortunately, he has LOST his very first fight…worse, he screwed up big time, being also blamed for “un-sportsman” conduct as he virtually stopped fighting during the remaining 40 seconds of his fight after listening to someone in the crowd and wrongly thinking he was in the lead while he was actually one hit behind… stupid mistake….never listen to the crowd…all this had work to come to this…. What’s more, the poor kid has since been subject to blame all over the internet…. Americans likes winners and there is little recognition for the one who screws up… I felt sorry for this kid…I know little about boxing as I have just discovered this sport but I have seen the sacrifices, the pain these boxers endure to compete…I think the guy deserves a break and should keep his head up and be proud….

    Anyway, was a sad moment at the GYM…probably should have taken some shots but I was there like all of them not believing what happened…

    Eric

  • Charles, :)))))))))))) ,
    hey whats up . yes working hard… very hard…
    THE PRIZE … the money , the $$…
    ( by the way, the real “believers” of this blog, they probably remember that, back in the day, i said and promised that if i will get funded from the EPF committee with $$ … half of the $$…,
    YES HALF, will go immediately to fund “Marcin’s life-style”…)

    p.s:(yes, pun intended).

    CHARLES ,( NO KIDDIN NOW )..
    CONGRATULATIONS FOR YOUR BOOK…

    “CYPHER”… all B&W & MEDIUM… BRAVO man…
    someday, i wanna be just …. like you…!!!!!
    peace

  • ERIC

    I’m so sorry to hear about this sad occurrence and how it affected the folks you’re photographing and getting close to at the gym. One of the most gentle-spirited men I’ve ever known was a boxer here in Detroit. He was African American and had grown up in a poor family in the inner city. I gather boxing helped give him the self discipline and ambition to dream big and lift himself out of poverty. When I knew him, he had a wife and three young children and was in the last years of his career as a boxer. I was honored when he and his wife asked me to be their daughter’s godmother, but now I’m sorry I never saw him fight.

    Anyway, your excellent essay is bringing back memories of a dear man and his family. Thank you.

    HERVE

    Thanks so much for your feedback on my idea for a title for my essay. What you say rings true. I’ll keep looking…

    Patricia

  • CHARLES P….
    You probably aren’t going to be around to see this but…congrats on Cypher. It looks great. I was just shooting some breakdancing this evening myself, not an easy feat (or should I say feet? ha-ha)

    Think I already mentioned here that I hostessed an open floor for b-boys back in the day.

    SIDNEY…
    Thanks for that Ed Kashi link. Very interesting.

    DAVID B…
    “over time people fall away.. people either cannot stand the frustration, the lack of money or the lifestyle and disappear.. give up.”

    Frustration can mean many things. In my case it’s more about being SO extremely hard on myself. Nothing to do with rejection from editors and the like…I guess self rejection is just as bad if not worse!

  • cathy

    i can empathize with you there.. guess many will..
    i’m tough on myself although that (and poverty) are the only things which have ever been detractors..
    i’ve never felt the competition or had trouble showing and doing my work.. i think that comes down to just doing what you do.. so long as we are all doing our own thing and pleasing ourselves, then the competition is hardly noticed as an issue.

    charles..

    hi – good to meet you and look at your work. your grung work is very strong – like it – and congratulations on your book.. trying to achieve that myself – i have been photographing electronic music.

    eric..

    i think it’s great that you are going along and really caring about the gym.. no problem to not take photos every time, IMO.. sounds like you have a good bond going on there.

  • I’ll keep looking…
    ————————-
    Looks like photography is unlike rock bands. with the buddies, we usually had the name worked up before even the first song! Then came the photos, the poster, then….We’d break up! :-)))

    (oh, and BTW, “Grandma techno” won’t do either! Ahhh, I think you knew that…)

    :-)))

    MARCIN: 50 is not bad! Hang in there, friend!

    OLYMPIC NOTE: why can’t the freakin’ french clinch a gold?!?!?

  • Cathy,

    In my humble opinion, self rejection is the hardest of all hurdles to overcome. Rejection, whether by a loved one or your self, drills holes in our heart that ego must step up to fill.

    And, in my humble opinion, ego is at the root of all of the evil tilts of this world.

    Sometimes, Mr. Harvey, people just take a while to float to the surface.

    This blog helps me see that I am not the only one that struggles with the sharing of themselves.

    Recently I realized, “it is extremely easy to take photos of other lives, documenting the tics of someone else’s world.” How easy it is to seduce others to expose their lives to your will.

    To do your own is very difficult; even the cosmos tends to play games with you, making you think maybe you aren’t supposed to show certain photos. Hiding things, turning maps the wrong way, sticking a finger in your hard drive, in general having its way with you.

    This essay that is working its way out, of the past 2 years, at times still seems totally self-centered. My ego is really working to keep the me that was rejected hidden. That’s why I can speak up about self-rejection on this blog.

    I am glad Mr. & Mrs. Black are taking a few days.

    On Maui time, six hours behind NYC,

    Lee

  • I guess self rejection is just as bad
    —————–

    Hey, Cathy, I remember the work you used to do in Asia, and what you do now (rodeo). I am not saying this last is bad, but why don’t use some of the qualities you showed back then into your new stance. Even if then is not the direction you want now, there had to be a good bit of you in these wonderful travel portraits.

    Off the top of my head: Could self-rejection start with self-denial, sometimes?

  • CARLOS R:

    I took a look at your ‘Red” multimedia piece… very interesting concept, and on the whole very well done.. I liked it a lot, and it has given me ideas for other kinds of conceptual series. There were two images in the flow that I felt didn’t work as well as the others… the ones at 1:52 and at 2:10. By themselves they are both good photos but I felt the ‘red’ message was not conveyed as strongly or unambiguously as in all the other photos. In the second one, the other colors are more saturated and centered than the red and overpower it. It is just my opinion, but I think the whole series would be better if you could replace these two photos. Yet I liked the piece very much! I’m looking forward to seeing ‘Blue’!

    Saludos

  • DAVIN,
    Right on..
    Let’s meet in Venice and let’s kick it with
    “jim” one more time…
    peace

  • DAVID,

    Quick update on my assignment… things have been crazy busy this month and I am still plugging away. I received two rejection letters for access on my project, one for prison access and the other for ambulance access. After that, I stepped back for a few weeks, rethinking and putting my frustration aside. I am heading off to Vancouver for a week today and when I get back, I am trying a new approach and going to the streets to see what I can come up with. I will be safe, cautious and use my head.

    Thus far I have some great images for the story, including images from a shooting I arrived at moments afterward, but I need to dig into the lives of the people so that is my next focus. I am going to try and stay away from the “institutions”, and go back to the roots of it. I have literally committed the next year to working on this project, making the decision to stay in Baltimore so I can take a good run at the project. It helps that I able to make a living here off of photography as well.

    Speaking of MEM, I spoke to her at LOOK 3 and we were talking about access. She told me if she feels she cant get the access she wants, she throws in the towel.

    I guess my question to that is, When do you throw in the towel? How do you determine that you can not get what you want? I believe that you can always find away to make it happen if you want it bad enough. Is it a question of how much time you are willing to dedicate vs. the current rate of results? I am surely not at this point because I feel not all avenues have been exhausted, but emotionally, sometimes, it can be exhausting. I guess it all comes down to keeping it balance, getting what you feel is an equal return for what you invest.

  • To All–

    I heard from one other person that they couldn’t access my site. Did anyone else have trouble with it? Please… if you did, can you let me know?

    Thanks everyone!

    spencer

  • SPENCER

    Your site comes up fine for me too, not too slow & beautifully designed.

    I love your Demolition Derby series & look forward to seeing more. To my eye it works wonderfully well in B&W. When you use slow shutter speeds to show action, that is quite effective. Your portraits are good but now I’d like to see more candid shots of the drivers & the crowd…and more dirt-flying crashes! It’s such a crazy event yet your treatment is practically serene. That adds an interesting ironic touch but now I’d love to see more flat-out craziness! Go for it!!!

    Patricia

  • thank you Patricia. I’ll try! The next one isn’t for a couple of weeks. :)

    sl

  • ALL

    I just discovered a poem & photo posted on Sunday by my dear friend in San Francisco, Dorothy Walters. Although it is dedicated to me, I believe this poem speaks TO & OF us all…

    http://kundalinisplendor.blogspot.com/2008/08/photographer-poem.html

    Patricia

    P.S. Dorothy took the photo while visiting Ed and me here in Michigan last May. This is the wharf where I go to center myself and think things out. It’s just a 3-block scoot from our house.

  • DAH,

    I have been making b&w digital prints with a Epson 4800 using the Imageprint RIP and Crane Silver Rag paper with fantastic results. It’s esp good if you are starting off with medium format. 35 isn’t as strong for some reason, and I still revert back to my lab making silver gelatin prints for my rock archives.

    I needed to eliminate the darkroom from my life for health reasons. I’m thinking that the collectors will come around re archival b&w digital prints. The technology is now here that it’s becoming hard to tell the difference. Early on a lot of digital printing sucked, even though we were being told otherwise by the purveyors of it (I’m thinking Nash editions for example).

    All of my Cypher series will be printed exclusively on digital. I do think digital capture and then converting to b&w is trickier. I haven’t had the best of luck with that, though the M8 is the camera to do it with. Check out my “Filson” gallery for some M8 conversions – I used the Alien Skin Exposure program. But just like in the darkroom where one needs to delve into making a print with three hands (I mean dodging and burning) one needs to maintain the same amount of control/manipulation/work/call it what you will. I think a lot of people are missing that step(s) with digital and it will go a long way to making your images more film like.

    Marcin,

    Wow. I sometimes know what you mean. I think every photographer (mmm lets say artist), no matter how succesful, goes through an existential crises now and then. Personally I have dreams of being a Magnum photographer, and am envious when I open the magazines and see these great photographers doing this world changing work in far flung hotspots. My gig next week: shooting a dentists office. But hey, it will help pay the studio rent and it’s only a couple of hours out of my life and a favor for a local designer friend. That’s part of being stuck in a smaller market – one has to make do. It’s frustrating and soul sucking at times. I’ve always threatened to leave here but something else comes along. Now it’s a wife and a baby. But that’s a good thing.

    Anyway, sometimes it’s helpful to stick a project away for a while and then come back to it. You have some great work and a neat style but it’s kind of all over the place (and on the website literally all over the place!). So just doing some organizing/editing might be a good place to start. Try not to beat yourself up. More later…

  • patricia – good poem.
    maybe there is a title in there?
    ‘turning life over’..

  • DAVID B. and LEE…

    Thanks for your comments.

    Lee, I studied the Enneagram quite seriously in Maui. As presented by Eli Jaxon-Bear it’s all about the various forms the ego takes. Very interesting stuff…Shows that “I am the greatest” is not any different from “I am the worst.” It’s ALL ego! One form is not any better than another and we all have some variation of it. No one is exempt. The trick is quietly noticing and not BELIEVING in it…which is difficult sometimes, at least for me. :))

    HERVE…
    What you said is exactly what I am coming around to…I sort of “gave up” on portraits and environmental portraits because I wanted to move in a different direction…beyond the travel photography I was doing (even though I was doing very well with it as far as recognition and so forth.) I was looking for more depth and less cliche.

    Last week I saw slide presentations from two portrait photographers that reminded me how much I enjoyed this work and then this past weekend I was “presented” with a wonderful situation that sort of brought the past together with the new direction. I am looking forward to sharing it soon!

    I do have rodeo portraits as well and other rodeo images you would probably like more than what I’ve shown…Just waiting for a good way to show them here. Lightstalkers doesn’t seem like the best way to go so I’m looking around…a website is a bit expensive to do right now.

  • “But just like in the darkroom where one needs to delve into making a print with three hands (I mean dodging and burning) one needs to maintain the same amount of control/manipulation/work/call it what you will. I think a lot of people are missing that step(s) with digital and it will go a long way to making your images more film like.”

    ————-

    right on CHARLES, that is EXACTLY the problem… almost everyone skips the steps and then ultimately gets disappointed… it is NOT easy, in fact i find it harder than darkroom work… because of the ‘limitless-ness’ of a RAW file, and the sheer amount of data it contains

    essentially, nowadays people are expecting the level of expertise of a pro lab in a photographer… and the strange thing is, the photographer is slowing starting to expect this from his/herself as well… why? i guess the accessibility of computers and software makes a devilishly strong case here… and lots of people fall into the trap of not learning enough about it… i mean, how many years does it take before one perfects his darkroom technique? if ever? i know, even after sooo many years, i always learn again and again, no matter how many times i get into the darkroom… and to expect that developing “digitally”, which is infinitely more complex, will be a snap, moving some sliders and looking at a screen, is imo a huge error of judgement.

    and yes… obviously the medium doesn’t count, only the result.. i guess that’s a given

    and i want to add… the archival qualities of inkjet papers have surpassed that of silver gelatin.. even though we can’t “prove” it as archival inkjet prints aren’t around for 100+ years yet :)))

    but…….. they have one thing going for them, and that is a BIGGIE: in its life cycle, archival inkjet paper will never be exposed to the corrosiveness of chemicals (developer, stop bath, fixer, toner…) in a way that traditional prints will… and that alone already is a HUGE advantage in terms of optimising the archival quality of inkjet paper…

    and another thing: printing (traditional or digital) and judging a negative (traditional or digital) are two separate things… ever since digital photography came around everyone thinks digital negative equals digital print.. which is certainly not necessarily so…

    hence i understand David when he says turning digi negs into “real” ones so he can print silver gelatin…

    love to y’all

    anton

  • ps charles love the “Cypher” pictures… Pukkelpop starts here in my hometown tomorrow and i cannot go there… because of work…. a MAJOR disappointment… but your images, and DAVID B’s images, certainly make me feel like being somewhere with good music… and that matters to me…

    david b you should check out the line up, some interesting interesting interesting stuff… and you’ll feel my pain :) http://pukkelpop.be/pp/en#home

    peace
    anton

  • CHARLES

    How did you manage to read my mind??? After seeing the prints–especially the b&w prints–last week at the Museum of Modern Art in NYC, all I’ve been able to think about is the wondrous beauty of those film prints. As a digi photographer who can’t imagine trying to learn film or to buy even one more camera (I have two), I thought the look of film was beyond my grasp. And then you post your comment, I checked out your web site (WOW!!!), and googled “Alien Skin Exposure” software. That was all it took! I’ve just ordered Exposure 2 in hard copy. I am beside myself with anticipation!! Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom born of experience. When the time comes I’ll also invest in the paper you recommend. I own the Epson 2400 printer and have been very pleased with its performance thus far, especially with b&w prints.

    Now regarding your work, I am in awe of how you’ve captured both break dancing and riding the mosh pit! As a longtime Detroiter I’ve seen my share of terrific break dancing. I’ve even tried to photograph it, so I know how challenging it can be to capture the incredible energy of this amazing dance form. But, man, you NAILED IT!!! And I’ve ridden a mosh pit myself, so know that feeling from the inside. Your photos from “touch me i’m sick” are RIGHT ON!!

    BTW if anyone wants to read my Mosh Pit Mama story, go to

    http://www.windchimewalker.net/-webpages/moshpitmama.html

    Anyway, Charles, YOU ROCK!!!

    Patricia

  • hey anton..
    you good?
    great site – thanks..

    i kind of do feel your pain.. it’s just my kind of lineup and looks like a decent community type event.. no fat sponsor logos or anything..
    will bookmark it for next years shenanigans

    good music.. yes.. i’m making do with the stereo for a little longer until i get more editing sorted..

  • hey patricia…

    i’ve been using the same software for a couple of years now “digitally” developing for different fashion photographers… it has come a long way and it is great… the photogs are all telling me that they cannot achieve the look of film anymore since they went digital, until i show them this… a lot of scepticism about digital is very heavily dropped then and there… BUT you still have to know what you’re doing… Alien Skin is just the last 5% of the “developing” process… don’t forget that…

    … and so it all comes down to the printing, after all :))

    david b

    make sure you do bro… you’ll have a place to stay too, i live within 2 miles… and i’ll join in… two skin obsessed music obsessed photo obsessed crazy dudes… a recipe for disaster for sure.

    i think we need to invite grandma techno to keep us on a leash :)))

    yes the festival is known for programming up and coming lesser knowns… it is the place to brush up on your music, bands here usually end up some place big about 3-4 years later. i don’t know how Chokri and his crew keep up this nose for talent…

    cheers,
    anton

  • ah and yes, all good here… ‘bit’ stressed out, pulling my 20th 16-hour day in a row… still 15 to go… it’s murder… but i guess i will survive… again… worst is i miss the photography and being able to post here more regularly… but i guess i’ll be forgiven for that eventually

  • ALL,

    Sorry I am jumping right into this conversation now, without checking what is going on …

    … but ….

    … I promised a link to a small slideshow of a few pics that I pimped up a little with text. No audio unfortunately, as I have to get me some software for that kind of data first.

    http://dark.lassal.de/hidden/tpw-workshop-2008/

    You will get an overall impression, I hope. DAH had a full class: 14 people. Other teachers (five altogether) had only 4 students … Of course this changes the daily routine a lot, because it meant that we had more reviewing-classes and less time to actually go out and take photos. But I would not say it was negative at all: I learned more by listening/watching to the reviews of others day after day than I could have learned by taking some more photos. I cannot speak for everybody in the class, but after the second day I really loved it as it was.

    More to all of this at some other point. I cannot say I am in NY-time, but … the workshop-times were kind of crazy too, and I am still not ready for a resumee. We would suck in all the time possible to talk and discuss, then still edit pictures until the morning. If you look at the picture of Chris Anderson with Baby Atlas on top of DAHs post, it was taken during breakfast and you might notice all the empty chairs …. It was Wednesday and people would start to skip breakfast to have more time to take photos and edit. I think despite of all the great food they made for us, we all lost some pounds in Tuscany because we did not eat enough. We just did not want to waste time at all. David later told us that the other groups were not expecting us to deliver anything proper by the end of the week because they perceived us as always “partying”… ;)))) And then we did more than great!!! That was very, very cool. Tanks to David, Claudia and Diego!

    Weeelllll, yessss, we sure had our share fun, of course, but we never left the subject. Every single one of us had to find his/her own assignment and then manage to finish it somehow on time for the friday slideshow. It was a great help to be able to discuss difficulties and possibilities with others. The vine just helped us with the brainstorming. And David was right there, in the middle of us, never tired to motivate, redirect, clarify … inform. While other teachers claimed a piece of private time, David was still answering questions while he was taking a siesta-nap on the grass … ;)))))) And we have it on tape, David!!! I have never seen a more engaged teacher in my life.

    This is for sure not supposed to be any kind of sweettalk… Some people were not that happy in the class because they were expecting something different. This is a huge problem David had to deal with somehow. I can imagine it resulted out of the description of the workshop contents on the TPW-website.

    BUT maybe more interesting for you: Everyone there got to see the EPF-show! So all of the emerging Photographers kind of were in Tuscany on this workshop too! And people applauded like crazy – so you really made an impact.
    Background: every night a different teacher got to show his work&portfolio. Mostly slideshow with audiotracks (these audiotracks are quite powerful to pimp anything up, by the way. Amazing to see). David was the only one who did not only show his own work – including some first impressions of his new family-project, which is turning out to be the most “freeform” work I have ever seen of him – but he gave his presentation time to show YOUR work!

    If that ain’t great I don’t know what is.

    Good night for now.
    I do not know if you are really interested, but if yes, I’ll come back in a couple of days with a resumee… It is just all still stuck in my brain.

    Best to all,
    L

  • ANTON

    Grandma Techno keeping you guys on a leash??? Oh, I don’t think so! I may not join in on the less legal parts of the music world myself but when things start getting funky, I just take off. Works for me ;=)

    DAVID B

    Interesting phrase you found! I looked & looked for a title in there and didn’t see one. Of course you’re a poet yourself…

    Patricia

  • LASSAL

    Thank you so much for the slide show and your written report. If and when you can, please give us more!

  • LASSAL

    LOVED your photo essay on David’s Tuscany workshop!!! Your wonderful photos make me want to see the work you ended up doing there. Can you post a link to that too?

    Patricia

  • hey patricia!

    of course not… no holding me back… no holding yourself back… the leash was meant in a kinky sort of fetisjist way :)))))

    omg getting some pretty graphical leathery images flashing through my mind here :D

    smiling…

    anton

  • lassal…

    great impression of the workshop… felt like i was there… GREAT iconic portrait of DAH man himself… number 53… stopped me in my tracks… thanks for sharing all of this!!

    and yes the perception of “they’re partying all the time, will they actually deliver” was exactly the same at Look3… but little did they know… :))))

    peace
    and thanks again

    anton

  • oh yes and i second patricia: very curious about your work done there…

  • ALL….

    please know that i will link the Tuscany workshop slide show under the “movies” section of my home page just as i did with the Look 3 workshop…it might take me a few days to do this…

    also please know that everything is one big circle here…i showed the Tuscany class the EPF show as well…so, one way or another everyone sees everything that has been generated here…which is starting to get rather impressive i must say…imagine 6 more months or so of work from assignments here….we will have a “one of a kind” net production…anyway, sorry for the enthusiasm for something that does not yet exist, but what the hell!!!!

    oh yes, i forgot to mention that i am down in beach territory in Virginia and North Carolina….my family time for the next two weeks…they will kill me (or anyone) if i spend much time on the computer (vacation anti – computer rules have gotten tough!!)…do not worry , i will sneak in a post or two, but you all will have to carry most of the commentary….many thanks in advance…

    cheers, david

  • patricia

    you’re too kind..

    anton

    thats heavy mate.. keep dreaming about what you’ll do with the spondulage you’ll earn..
    next year i’ll try for then.. good to have new events to snap at..
    chokri might know the right pr’s, or more probably hangs around on.. er.. forums :o)
    that used to help me..

    lassal

    thanks for the deconstruction of a workshop – useful..

  • DAH

    hello..

    relax.

    goodbye.

    hohoho

  • Hi Lassal, DAH and all,

    The Tuscany workshop was as amazing experience. I agree with everything you’ve said, Lassal, and your slide show does a great job in capturing the famous “spirit of the place” of our workshop.

    What a week it was. I am sure the monks who used to live there never worked as hard as we did during this week.

    DAH is incredibly committed and he pushed us all the time to improve our way of thinking and photographing. His passion for photography is very contagious and by the end of the week, although exhausted, we were all thinking how to take our photography to the next level. I think the timing for this workshop was not very good for David but, once he was there, he was ready for us 100 % of the time. Even breakfast, lunch, dinner, after-dinner became a classroom.

    I had my doubts beforehand but now I think this was some of the best-spent money ever, photography wise. Worth every cent. If you are considering taking a workshop with DAH, just do it. You will not regret it.

    Kudos also to the Tuscany Photography Workshops (TPW) and Carlo, its Director, who did a great job organizing the whole thing.

    And thank you Lassal for the compliments. The pleasure was mine. For those of you (most?) who don’t know her in person, she is even nicer than on the blog; the sweetest girl, going around helping everyone, always with a smile…

    Cheers,

    Nacho

  • Cathy, thanks for validating my thoughts. I am one to believe that as soon as we start expressing ourselves in any art, there is something that is uniquely ourselves, and that will still be there in 50 years, when all is said and done, wether we ended up as “also ran” or the greatest geniuses of the century. Its’ not necessarily about choice of subject or angle/distance of view.

    We should never deny that, and stay in touch with it, consciously AND unconsciously. I fail to recognize the human brilliance you showed from India and Burma, in the rodeo essay, where somehow i remember a lot of turned backs (metaphor for self- denying/rejecting?)against your eye, and also, a bit of shoddiness towards color and light. Your travel shots were so superbly exposed, and sun-glorified…

    Also, let’s remember not to be too elitist, too “art for art” sake. Whatever we shoot, our photography must please either one person (us), or a lot of people. I really mean a lot, way beyond this blog’s membership. Photography should never go the way music did in mid-century (where serialism became the utmost elitist and ivory towered crap) and stay a popular art.

    We should always shoot as if we were the eyes of the world (but not like the whole world, because most people take crappy pictures, ahaha). I always see that quality in the best (from David to HCB to Nachtwey).

    IMO (all of the above)…

  • HERVE…
    I had to end abruptly this morning but wanted to add that I really appreciated your comment/critique. There are so many “great job” “wow I love it” type comments posted here that I’m sure everyone wants and needs but I like to see more CONSTRUCTIVE remarks such as yours. Something that moves the photographer to the next level rather than just building their ego.

    The fact that you were familiar with my previous work and able to compare it to recent work and add your two cents worth to me shows you CARED. That’s the real beauty of our community here.
    We have all been “together” for a while now…Let’s continue to “keep it real.” Thanks.

  • LASSAL,

    Thanks for your post on the workshop. It really felt like we were there and it was great seeing a few familiar faces like Diego and Carlo… I agree with Anton, I also love the portrait of David (picture 53) and I look forward to see your work once David shares the link…

    Cheers,

    Eric

  • HERVE,

    I presume you will be watching the 100m race….It starts in about one hour….Let’s hope Alain Bernard does bring the gold this time….the French need to get their act together….

    Eric

  • LASSAL, NACHO ,
    thank you for the reportage…
    but where is Lassal’s face ???? in those photos…
    or yours…?
    people please reveal yourselves…
    please put some “GONZO” in your life…
    peace

  • Dear David,

    I’ve sent you an e-mail.
    Please check it out.

    Have a nice family vocation!

    happiness,
    Kyunghee

  • LASSAL…

    Thanks for sharing the workshop with us. I appreciate your humor :))

    You mentioned that what you heard and saw during the critiques affected your work. When you are rested I hope you will write more about this.

  • Sidney,
    thanks a lot for your feedback on my “red” series…please see the rest of my work at http://www.carlosrubin.com

    I’ll see these images…thanks for giving me the time code…

    saludos!
    Carlos

  • ERIC!!!!

    Cool, Bernard got it together, ran a superb race, got one the most coveted Gold in the Games (100 freestyle), it is simply fantastic. Only 3rd time a french wins a gold in Swimming since 1896…

    Thanks for thinking of me, I could not watch unfortunately (no cable), but checked the net.

    Carlos, I liked your Red series too, the music was superb, but whose is it?

  • Lassal, finally saw your Tuscany slideshow. Thanks for the update, cool that you have more to show or tell us (resumee?).

    And I love the mural with Fra…DAHvelino! :-)))

    PS: #53 is the best portrait of David so far. How did you corner this constantly moving man to stand still and in profile!?!? ;-)

  • The difference between a snapshot and a “classic photograph” is in the intention of the photographer, not the “quality” of the photograph.

    Same obtains for other kinds of art. If you intend the object to be art, it is. The opinions of the audience are not relevant.

    You’ve got to make a living, but most photojournalists who make that living take pictures of fat politicians behind microphones or celebrities climbing in and out of limos.

    If you’re taking narrative photography with artistic intent, in the Magnum (Harvey) tradition, you’re not going to make a living anyway. So you should have your kids and not worry about it.

  • Hey David, today I met up with Soo Jeong who introduced me to Bruno Barbey, if only briefly. I will be attending a seminar by him next week so hoping to hear some different perspectives on the collective Korea work from last year.

  • This does help. I’m a Film Producer and i secretly prayed for a partner who is not in the industry.

  • >>>You’ve got to make a living, but most photojournalists who make that living take pictures of fat politicians behind microphones or celebrities climbing in and out of limos.<<< JMITCHEM - Some may argue with your statement. PJ's photograph plenty of skinny politicians, too.

  • Hi Herve,
    thanks for looking to my RED series…the musi?…just stock music fro itunes….directly from my Mac….a beautiful song.

    saludos.

  • ALL

    thanks to have a look at the slideshow…
    As David B has put it a while back: it is something quite different to put work up here among you guys… :)

    SIDNEY

    thank you. I am so sad I took so few pictures. Most of them were taken on the first and on the last day. Everybody was kinda jumping around on the last day trying to catch up with photos because we noticed we were just too concentrated during the week to take a picture of ourselves …
    Thus the big hole in the slideshow …
    But the slideshow was more for my “workshop-family” anyway … to remember … to anchor the good feelings. And I think it could work. At least they can fill up the holes I left.

    I do not know why I am so finished at the moment. I can hardly think … my brain is just a big BUZZZZ. Maybe they put something in their wine in the monastery to make us addicted and wanting to go back. Even though this was not necessary.

    I’m still evaluating with the others from the class. I think it is best to give an overall critical review than just another “I-love-everything”-type of review. At the end, it is how I personally would prefer such a review. I am working on it :)
    (Talking like this I am making such an elefant out of this moskito! It is not going to bee so much, that you had not thought youself anyway)

    PATRICIA

    Glad you liked the slideshowpics! Thank you so much…
    I do not have my work online yet. Actually I am waiting for half on it to reach my by mail, so I can scan it in. I did a pure and boring conceptual thing. No street photography or anything. Mainly I did portraits of some people there. Please do not expect too much!

    David has my few pictures on his slideshow of the workshop. And as he even has added an audiofile to it, I guess you’d be better off waiting until he puts everything online.

    ANTON

    yeah, I really liked the portrait of DAH too. BUT it does make him look so much older than he is! That is why I went to get his permission to post it first. You can see the difference looking at some of the other pictures where he is in.

    But now I do not understand … LOOK3 was a workshop? I thought it is a festival where you “only” show things or have this famous INsight Conversations. I guess I got something wrong here …

    As to my work … see above ;)
    It was really nothing special.

  • DAVID B

    please help me out with my poor english… “deconstruction of a workshop”??

    NACHOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
    Yeahhhhh :)))))))) …
    charming as ever. So wonderful to hear from you!!
    I have to check on when I can come to Madrid. I’ll write you asap I get everything worked out, ok?

    Actually I went through a big metamorphosis, did I not? From an “old, german man” to a “sweet girl”.
    I guess the truth lies somewhere in between … ;)))

    ERIC
    you have been to one of the TPW workshops? Sicilly? I’d love to go there next year if possible. But I’ll have to check on my cash first. Diego was great. Always calm, always in control, always a great help and always nice… I’d be glad to meet him again someday.

    PANOS
    I did the pictures of the slideshow, remember? So no face of me around :) And a monastery has few mirrors – actually just some in the bathrooms in a very dim light. But we are putting a gallery together where we will share our pictures of one another (obviously a DAH-incentive) and I hope to see some pictures of myself in there too. Even though I still think that the best pictures are the ones without me… :)

    Iztok already sent me a photo he took of me while I was taking one myself. Nacho and I are to be seen (or not).
    http://dark.lassal.de/hidden/the-making-of/

    CATHY
    :)))
    that was just such a great coincidence!! I was looking for old postcards throughout the villages and I found these amazing religious ones that change image depending on the angle you look at them… I did not know what to do with them but I bought them. That was monday. Later in the night I was lying on my bed to prepare a proposal for my assignment and to show what I wanted to do I just composed something (alternatives) out of the random material I had on my notebook. When I was looking for a portrait and went through the first day of our workshop when I did quite a lot of portraits from DAH, I stumbled over one of the images and thought … wait a moment! I took the religious postcards out my bag and there it was!! It is not 100% the same posture, and they are looking in different directions too, but works nicely, does it not? BTW it is the famous Padre Pio whose portrait is on the card… You see his images all over the place in Tuscany.
    It was quite fun to see DAH looking at himself the next day :))))

    HERVE

    DAH was sitting on his usual place and listening attentively to what one of the students had to say … It was not so hard to take the picture, he was sitting and I had just to position myselft to get the profile. I took another one of Riitta taking the same picture with him laughing. I will check on that one.

    Cheers,
    Lassal

  • ALL

    just got a call from Padre Pio to go to Perpignan…

    So. Who is going there? And how will we recognize each other???
    Most of the portraits of DAHs Portrait-assignment will not be of great help …

    Hmmm…. I might have an idea. Just a minute …
    I’ll check something out.

  • Cathy
    btw, could you make any sense out of what I wrote to you? … At least you get an impression of my shredded brain :))

    Sorry for that.
    ;)
    L

  • deconstruction – breaking it down so it was easy to see what it was made of :o)

    the timetable was an interesting read.. hard work.. good work..

  • ALL

    Here it is!!!! Please check it out and tell me what you think!!!!!!

    http://dark.lassal.de/hidden/dah-mask/

    I’m curious, curious, curious … :)

    Best,
    L

  • DAVID B

    ahhhh… ok. Thank you for explaining. “Deconstuction” for me meant to take things apart in a negative way, when you do not leave a single nice feather on the bird…
    I was afraid I did that unintentionally after I read your post – it would have been because of my bad english. Really, I had the best time of my life in Tuscany! But that is just not a constructive information. ;)

    Cheers,
    L

  • DAVID,

    Thanks for your response about the EPF question. I already have two essays done during the past two months that I want to submitt for the EPF. Right now I’m editing them but any of it is online anywhere. I will upload it in a web gallery as soon as it is ready and will put the link under the “student work” section. I thought the second edition of the EPF was going to be like last year so I’m glad I asked!

    Un abrazo!

    Ana

  • LASSAL,

    What a funny ideaaaa! I’m still laughing!! By the way, I am going to be in perpignan. As far as I know, there are some other people coming as Audrey Bardou, Gina Martin, Davin Ellicson, Neil Hodgins… We are in touch by mail and maybe we can give each other’s cell phone so once we are there we can send an sms and arrange a date at the Cafe le Poste. But your idea is also very good!! :D

    Hope to meet you in Perpignan, Lassal :-)

    Ana

  • PATRICIA,

    Thanks for your nice comment about my work. And I’m sure the portfolios reviews in Perpignan will be a very positive experience for me!! (It is already as i’m working now on the portfolio very seriously!)

    LASSAL again,

    By the way, thanks for sharing your experience in the workshop with DAH. You made me feel “morriña” wich is something similar to “homesick” because your words speak for me as I have the same feeling from the workshop I shared with him a year ago. An intense and great week to remember!

  • LASSAL

    I sure hope we can meet in person sometime. I do LOVE your sense of humor! Wish I could be in Perpignan with you and our other friends. Maybe another year. Someone, PLEASE take a group photo of the DAH masked wonders!!!

    Regarding the LOOK3 workshops, they were held the week before the festival. Maybe we’ll meet there in 2009! And Lassal, your English is excellent.

    ANA

    I found preparing my portfolio to be more anxiety-producing than the review itself. Choosing the pics and making good prints of them took a lot of time and energy. But it was also a learning experience, especially since I’d not done it before. Please let us hear in detail all about Perpignan. I’m sure it will be amazing!

    DAVID B

    My poet friend Dorothy weighed in on the title question and came up with “A Different Frame.” I like it!

    Patricia

  • ANA

    “morriña” is such a nice word for it. :) I’d say simplesmente “saudades”, but it does not really get it.

    Actually I am not prepared for Perpignan at all. No Portfolio and no clue how I should do a portfolio for there, or IF I should. I am not really a photojournalist, as you might have noticed, despite the NGO-Project in Kenya.
    I will think about how to approach it. Otherwise I might just go there to get a first impression, as I have never been to such a place.

    If you find the time, please do a DAH-mask and we take a picture of us wearing it there. Ok? Will be fun!
    Uff, I have to see if I can bring my little dog, no one is there to take him during that week so either both of us come or none of us. I cannot leave him at home alone.

    I have to go back to bed. My head is exploding. Maybe it is a flu after all.

    Take care and please write me your cell-phone and eMail, for perpignan … lassal@lassal.de

    Abraços.
    L

  • ALL

    regarding the mask … DAH probably wishes now he had shaved that morning :)))))

    DAVID, we love you!! Really…
    But you know that.

  • PATRICIA

    so nice of you … thank you.
    And thanks for the infos about the LOOK3 workshops… I did not know. Sure I would love to go there next year and meet you!!! Let’s to see, ok. Maybe I even get to do some sort of work until then :))

    Take good care and until soon,
    all my best,
    Lassal

  • LASSAL

    Brilliant idea! I love your DAH mask. I’m sorry I won’t be in Perpignan to see the Cafe de la Poste swarming with these faces!

  • PATRICIA,

    Yes, that’s exactly what is happening to me as it is also the first time I do it. All the editing process with the portfolios review is being an experience where I’m already learning. It is taking me a lot of time, a lot of thinking, a lot of reviewing…. and still will work on it for the next two weeks before going.
    And well, it also will be the first time I go to a photo festival like this. Sure it will be amazing, yes!!

    LASSAL,

    And why don’t you bring that project in Kenya? I will bring my latest projects in Senegal. I just decided to push myself and put me on the move. I want to give it a try….

    I already downloaded the DAH-Mask ;-) and will send you an email.

    Take care and rest some!

    Un abrazo

    Ana

  • PATRICIA,

    Yes, that’s exactly what is happening to me as it is also the first time I do it. All the editing process with the portfolios review is being an experience where I’m already learning. It is taking me a lot of time, a lot of thinking, a lot of reviewing…. and still will work on it for the next two weeks before going.
    And well, it also will be the first time I go to a photo festival like this. Sure it will be amazing, yes!!

    LASSAL,

    And why don’t you bring that project in Kenya? I will bring my latest projects in Senegal. I just decided to push myself and put me on the move. I want to give it a try….

    I already downloaded the DAH-Mask ;-) and will send you an email.

    Take care and rest some!

    Un abrazo

    Ana

  • LASSAL

    The mask is BRILLIANT!!

    I am taking one of the NY loft workshops + don’t think I’ll be able to keep a straight face now when I look at David. :))) Since being a little kid, I’ve had the problem of busting into uncontrollable giggles at the most inappropriate time. You’ve certainly added fuel to my fire… :)))

    Anna B

  • LASSAL

    Hope you feel better soon! If you’re like me, whenever I’m in an intense situation like your workshop with DAH I can keep up the pace while I’m there, but then my body crashes after I get home. I bet a lot of sleep will cure your ills.

    ANA

    I am SO excited for you! This is going to be a life-changing experience. It sounds like you are so ready for it…

    ANNA B

    Oh my, you are one of the chosen few to be part of one of David’s loft workshops! That is a high honor and one you well deserve. I’m so happy for you!

    Patricia

  • Awe, PATRICIA, such sweet words. Thank you!

  • i wish david b. were coming too. (but honor his decision to stay home, as babies often pop out early.)

  • LASSAL,

    The mask. Now I wish I’d go to Perpignan, last I went there, I used to go to camp in the summer near Prades and the Mt Canigou, 1968 that was!

    Hey, it would be funnier if you guys don’t cut the eyes out (of the mask)…. You will go from total idiots to performance art!!!

    What? Yeah, me too, I prefer to look like a total idiot! :-))))))))))

  • anna b.

    we’ll gather ‘b’s together at some point – no doubt..
    there will be work at gathering davids together at another point.. AH’s, MC’s.. and all.

    beate is cool about me going to new york.. ‘risking it’..
    i’m not ready in any case.. only a half cooked loaf here.. time is all. you know… when i’m sorted it’ll be perfect.

    lassal..

    i love it when people ‘deconstruct’ what they do and how they do it.. DAH does it really well here – you did it really well with his workshop.
    photographers sometimes stand back and enjoy people wondering ‘how did they do that?’ or ‘hgow did that work out?’.. i much prefere it when people are honest and just make it seem attainable.. not easy.. just little steps..
    show the individual feathers that make the bird look good.

    patricia..

    like it.. i think there is inspiration in the poem for a name..

    hmm..
    back thinking on new york now..
    i could use it for certain..
    not this time though.
    i think i will drop over some point soon though.. may 2009 if not before.

    right – guests for dinner..

  • SIDNEY
    “I’m sorry I won’t be in Perpignan to see the Cafe de la Poste swarming with these faces!”
    Will there be so many of us?! All the better.
    :))) Would give us a nice picture, would it not? The DAH-Team :))

    .

    ANA
    yes, the editing part is really always tricky. But you have been working so hard on this … you will be doing fine! Will you post a link here in the blog?

    My Kenya work… oh yes. Well, I do not know. I had 4 days in Mosocho with the NGO, 3 days actually, because I was sick in bed the last one. I mean… I did this pictures FOR the NGO, and they wanted something for postcards and calendars … not for a critical photo-essay. So this is completely different. Sure I do have some nice pictures because I could not help to take some for myself too, but not enough, I fear, to make a good story.

    I myself prefer the “Drive Through” series I did, with the painted fassades. But that again is less photojournalism.

    I guess I really have to look at the material again.

    .

    PATRICIA
    yes, thank you, you are probably right. I’ll get some rest tonight.

    .

    HERVE
    I agree completely: the people I admire most are those that are selfconfident enough to not take themselves all too serious. :)

    .

    DAVID B
    yes, one climbs a mountain step by step. That is what you mean, non? And even if one is tired, there is always enough energy for one more little step… and one more … and one more… But that now sounds too negative. Yes, but I agree with you. I am happy that this little piece of swiss-cheese-slideshow (because of the holes) has provided some feathers … or steps … I was not expecting it. But when I look at it now, yes, at least you see where the emphasis laid.

    I admit that I was very nervous at the first day, after it took us until late in the afternoon to edit all of the students work. I thought “how the hell will we find time to do the actual work?!” And I said that, too. I was really concerned. And I got a stern answer form DAH, who obviously had heard this kind of questions over and over and was sick&tired of it :). I do not remember the exact words he used but what he meant was that we had plenty of time if we used it wisely. It was Lesson #1 – what laid ahead of us was in some way a real-life simulation: you have to learn to make things work out because you will almost never encounter the perfect situation for your assignment. ;)
    (I guess of all of us you are one who knows this already)

    Well, all the students looked kind of shocked if I remember correctly, and I think no one dared to ask this question again. We just really made it work in the little time we had. At the end most of us could have made it in half of it …

    That is the great advantage (and disadvantage) of the human race: we generally adapt to things and situations quite easily. Regardless of their nature.

  • LASSAL,

    You really made me laugh with the DAH mask….neat idea!!!! I am sure David is not one to get easily embarassed but if many of us turn up with this mask this might succeed!!!!

    To answer your question, yes I met Diego and Carlo before, once in Rome and another time in Sicily. David always used to give a hard time to Diego (I am sure you must have heard “where the hell is Diego”???)…Was great to have him during the training. Really nice guy and talented photographer himself.

    Separately, I wanted to let you know that I also will be in Perpignan so hopefully, I will be able to join the “crowd” at Cafe de La Poste and meet you. If there is any plan to get together, please let me know or email me. I will send you my contact details.

    Cheers,

    Eric

  • Not married and no kids, but I’m absolutely intimidated by the prospect of trying to balance the profession with marriage and family.

  • wow, I didn’t read all the responses before posting. looks like it went in a different direction…

  • Not to worry, John. We travel all over the place here, and generally find our way back to the topic somewhere along the way ;=)

    Patricia

  • ANNA B…

    That is very exciting news about the Loft workshop.

    Anyone else around here attending?

    LASSAL…

    I did read your comment a couple of times, trying to figure out what you were saying but I think I did get the idea of the coincidence. Nice!

  • CATHY …
    I am feeling better today after listening to Patricias advice (Thank you Patricia)

    So another try:
    saw and bought this kitschy postcards by accident and when I looked for material for a composition that night I saw the similarity to a portrait I did of DAH and … could not resist! :)
    .

    ANNA B
    I envy you – really. :))
    Will be a wonderful experience, I am sure of it. Please post something here afterwards, will you?

    .
    As to the baby topic…
    When DAH did this picture of Chris’ family we of course all talked about the subject too.

    For me it is really difficult. No, I do not have any children, even though I always wanted 3 of them. Cannot tell why three, but it just felt right.
    The point is, I do not get these mother-feelings when little kids are around. I tend to feel a little uncomfortable. I love them, but I do not have the urge to hold them or …
    Somehow my brother and I kind of got it the wrong way around: while he is a perfect “mother”, always symbiotic to little children and speaking the same language, I am more of a “father” type: I love them but I rather go to work and see them just at night.

    PLEASE, I know how this sounds: all fathers who feel injustly treated here because they’d rather be with their children, I am just choosing this picture as a clichè to show what I mean.

    Everyone keeps telling me that this would change once I become a mother, but until now I did not feel like wanting to take this chance. Poor child!! So I was always waiting for this partner of mine who would say: “hey, you just have the kids and I take care of them!” Unfortunately this man never showed up.

    To compensate … also because I might never find the right partner … I kind of “adopted” some children in Brazil and am paying for their education and well-being while they still live in their little families. I am pretty happy with that because these are children that are already on this earth and do not really have a chance to find a good place for themselves. Obviously I am not providing more than this either: a chance. Maybe they will not use it. But on the other hand side often this is all one needs and seldom gets: a chance.

  • ERIC

    Diego just wrote me an eMail to say, he will be in Perpignan too…
    So you’ll get to see each other again.

    Ok, have to go now.
    Will post the rest of the review today. And then I think I have written more in two days than in the complete last year. :)

    Cheers,
    L

  • lassal

    being open, as you are, it’s great to read about your thoughts as well as your helping children in s. america.. very good.. excellent.

    i wonder if there is a time when we choose to have children at all? i knew i wanted children.. i thought i would like 2 or 3.. it did not occur to me that it would happen so quickly after finding beate..

    you see – beate and i met in 2006.. friends.. i worked over here in norway a few times and we met..
    then late last year we met again and wanted to be together, so i moved over during december.. january beate was pregnant..
    it’s been fantastic.. a really good thing which was less planned – more felt between us.

    i admire anyone who challenges themselves over having a child, after all – some people get it very wrong – in love with the idea of love.. in love with the idea of children.
    i know that beate and i are in love with each other.. and will remain that way.
    so our child is born of love – and it seems very right. not at all what i expected a month after emigrating of course – however it could not be any other way.. it is perfect.

    work.. hmm.. work will always be as important to me – no less than it has ever been.
    having a baby though – that is more important.. it does not lessen how important work is.. it has shown me a new, higher feeling of importance.. and b is still a number of weeks away from ‘dropping’.

    :o)

  • LASSAL! :)))))

    love love love the DAH mask (you’re magical and brilliant!)…downloaded it and will where when im off to see david in nyc….:)))..

    and I LOVE THE SLIDESHOW!..of course, as everyone has pointed out the portrait of David is gorgeous and magisterial…one for the ages: David as a beautiful and benevolent Roman Emperor :)))…much of the work i also dig: fish swimming amid the stars, iconic faces, the light sweeping along the edge of a table cutting off faces, like time’s scythe, the giacomelli-esque shot of the Tuscan hills…the holes in the wall…i cant wait to see wha tyou’ve conjured up….i love the debth of your intelligence and cant wait to see what you’ll put together: im sure it’ll have a gorgeous conceptual sting too it :)))

    ok, running…on a vow of work silence, back next week…

    hugs
    b

  • patricia

    unable to reply to your comcast email address – it’s blocking me as spam :o/
    maybe add me as a contact or pass on a hotmail addy if you have one?
    x

  • DAVID B :)))

    thanks for the link Dave :))…yup, James is a friend of mine :))…and a great photographer to boot :))…if i only had the time ;))))…trying to finish the writing for Bones of Time and that frickin’ book im trying to frickin’ do (to have time for all things) :)))…james knows my writing, and like his multimedia piece for have to be epic in it’s length ;)))..but i’ve passed it along to others :)))

    you’re the best mate :))

    ok, now must go disappear

    hugs
    b

  • DAVID B

    Comcast drives me crazy when it blocks people like this. I have no spam block engaged at all and when I call nothing can be done. Sigh. If you belong to Lightstalkers you can send me a message there. My addy is

    https://www.lightstalkers.org/patricia-lay-dorsey

    Or you can try comcast again. My other account is playdorsey@comcast.net

    Patricia

  • LASSAL,

    well, you and I should have met earlier :):):) I am the type of father you may have liked…..but I am happily married with two marvelous kids (and a marvelous wife) :):)…Funny you are watching after kids from a distance…I actually had my first kid “late” when I was 35 (40 now). I have traveled a lot in my previous life and, as I was touched by some of the people I met during these travels, when back home, I decided to try to help make a difference…I ended up watching after some kids in several places….There is a little girl that I have been taking care of in Ethiopia since many years now…another one in Vietnam North of Hanoi and a small boy in Madagascar….Like you, these are kids I watch after for their education and well-being while they still live in families….Actually I was in Vietnam several years ago to see the girl and I have never met the girl in Ethiopa although we have been exchanging mails etc… I am actually planning a trip in Ethiopia next January. I have for a long time been interested in photographing pilgrims that go to Lalibela (Black Jerusalem) aound mid-Jan….I hear it is an amazing event…If the “day” work allows, it is the plan to go there this year and as this little girl lives near by, this would be a unique opportunity to meet… Kind of strange to see these kids grow up over the years…Although you try to help, life is never easy in this part of the world. The mother of the Ethiopian girl died last year although she was pretty young…Thank god, father and grand-parents are still around to take care of her….

    Never exactly the same as having your own kids but it is certainly a rewarding experience and every little bit helps!

    Eric

  • ALL….

    i am running around in boats etc today, so i will have to catch up with all comments later this evening…

    new ideas running around in my head…promise to share soonest..

    cheers, david

  • Hi David,

    Enjoy your vacation…after 8 years in Bermuda, I will be moving with Nicole and Anne-Camille to Switzerland for a few years…We are looking forward to our new European life. I would love to take your workshop in Tuscanny next summer (2009) if you are still offering it.

    Have a great day from Bermuda – Arie

  • Hi Lassal,

    I am curious about one thing re. the workshop with David: what did you learn there that he has not covered here on his blog?

    Given that David is so generous with sharing his ideas and approach with us on an ongoing basis, it’s like all of us have attended a 2 years workshop with him.

    So what new aspects (not covered here) did you get out of the experience.

    Thanks

    Arie

  • LASSAL:
    “hey, you just have the kids and I take care of them!” Unfortunately this man never showed up.
    ———————-

    Lassal…..Where did you say you live, again?…. ;-)))

    More seriously, I have to agree with david B., some stuff in this life is not always about the right time, the right partner, the right choice, or strictly about, if you prefer.

    Things happen sometimes, life is a flow, not just plans, or “being busy”, “pursuing..”….

    Trivial stuff to say, so I will leave it to John Lennon (of motherly love fame, Lassal!):

    “life is what happens to you when you were busy making other plans”.

    It’s not always either/or…..

    In jest, but really, if I was pro-life, I’d buy space and make huge posters/ads of some of the sentences written in this thread!

    Hey….Wait a minute! I AM PRO-LIFE: I LOVE IT!

    I cheated though, I never had any plans!!

    :-))))

  • The things we do for art! This morning I was dressing to get ready to go photograph a special event at the Detroit Senior’s Center, when I slipped off my scooter seat. Fortunately, this happens rarely. But this time I remembered what MEM had said to me when I’d showed her a photo I’d taken of a floor’s eye view of my bedroom. “If you want to show what it’s like when you fall, you’ve got to have yourself in the frame.” Happily I could just barely reach my camera’s strap that was hanging out of my scooter basket. So I spent the next 20 minutes on an unplanned “floor shoot.” Here’s my favorite from that batch:

    http://www.pbase.com/windchimewalker/image/101699998

    I’d already written the following text to accompany it:

    “So what does it feel like to exist in a world where you cannot walk, where you’re always at risk of falling, where your hands can do few of the tasks expected of them? For me it means I see the world as a dangerous place, not in terms of threats from other people, but as a place where I can never be sure of myself, never count on my safety, never really relax. When I write that it surprises me, yet I know it’s true. The photo I took of myself getting out of bed reflects that reality. It speaks of my anxiety about transferring safely from my bed into the seat of my scooter. It was that transfer that landed me on the floor at 3 a.m. one June morning and necessitated my calling 911 for help getting up. Dressing is another risky endeavor. It’s all too easy to slip off the seat of my scooter. Getting up by myself can take close to an hour. My view of the world from the floor is not one I care to repeat. But I know I will.”

    Patricia

  • ARIE

    Which part of Switzerland are you moving to? If you’re anywhere near Zurich we could meet for a coffee or drink sometime. If you need info on life in Switzerland, http://www.englishforum.ch is a good source but search first, they’re touchy with people who ask questions already asked many times.

    Cheers,
    Nick

  • Hi Nick,

    Thanks so much for the link. Yes, that would be great to meet in Zurich. We will be located in Zug or Baar. I looked at your website and the pictures are great!

    Maybe we could start the Swiss’ DAH club? :)

    Arie

  • PATRICIA

    there are some words that are trying to come out of my fingers to express what I want to say in response to the description of your situation above … but they just do not want to materialize.

    Reality as we feel it inside of us and as it shows itself from the outside is sometimes so different! Just look at “age”. Our internal age can be oh so different than the “real” age – now one could discuss what is real and what not, but I hope you know what I mean.

    When I look at your pictures I see your internal reality AND your external reality finding this very personal way to get along. And I see what a beautiful and brave way you have chosen to dance with life as it is… with the controversy. I see the flickering of anger sometimes… but just a flicker … you would not be human if you had it not. You do have this very special and hard clash of realities you have to deal with. And of all the alternatives you have you have chosen this one path and you are charing it with us and … you are laughing! Teaching us so much more than merely how your every day life is…

    I was constantly looking at your portfolio … not able to say anything … just because it was soooo tooo much I wanted to say.

    So I just simply say “thank you” for all your effort, for all your strengh and for all the smiles and love you share with us. It is worth so much. I am in writing-mode otherwise I would not manage to put this down on “paper”. I hope you do not mind me saying it this way. I am very courageous today.

    And I really admire you.

    Lassal

  • ALL

    Ok, how to start this? I would love Patricia or Bob to write this for me so you get a better chance to understand me … Maybe also in order to save my skin when DAH reads this. :)

    First of all, there were our expectation concerning the workshop. I did not have many because it was the first time ever I took part in something like this, so the one only expectation I actually had was: lot’s of walking and street photography because of the workshop’s name “On The Road”. I liked both thoughts as I wanted to take this chance to try something completely different. Other students were thinking similarly.

    It turned out to be pretty different. Maybe because of the long hours of editing for our huge class, maybe because we managed to catch the hottest week of the year – I mean I am used to hot weather because of Brazil, but those first days in Tuscany were HELLISH! We ended up staying most of the day in the dark cool classroom in the monastery, and I am sure this was best. No one endet up in hospital. But yes, the expectation was different. Just a statement from my side. At the end we had enough time to do street photography if we wanted to. It was our own choice, and maybe that was something that was not expected too … To have a choice … I guess most of the students expected a school-like situation where you get fixed little assignments or a narrow frame in which to act. So we had much more freedom and much more responsibility than we thought we would get. Some liked that. Some did not. Everybody is different.

    One word to the student’s backgrounds: they were extremely different! Some were professionals who wanted to improve or change their direction, some had dayjobs in finance, consulting etc and a great photographic portfolio, some had dayjobs in finance, consulting etc and a not so great portfolio and some were beginners altogether. Maybe three of the participants would have had more of it, if they had known the basics of photography first. David maybe does not agree on that one saying that he adapts to the necessities of each one, but … I see it differently: If you have good seeds so sow, you should have your field ready to get most out of it. That is my personal opinion.

    So … as I mentioned … I really wanted to do this street photography as I had never done it before and … well … DAH is just the right man for that. I had hoped to do something completely different from my normal way of working to, maybe sometimes later, be able to put some magic in my pictures. My photos are usually very quiet. I wanted to add some life.

    But right on the second day I recognized that I would get so much more out of this unforseen circumstances, than if things had went the way I had imagined!

    We were 14 students. All very different. And all of us were reviewed in the mornings. I cannot tell how much I learned from these condensed stakkato reviews! I was constantly comparing what DAH said to what I would have said myself. I did not always have the same oppinion but that is what made it interesting. And I realized how outputoriented he thought: we had to get this slideshow done! And we had to get there fast. Watching him think aloud, brainstorming by himself, was absolutely phantastic ( one thing you do not get to see on the blog: the way his mind works). And as there were so many people with difficulty among us, he just was glad when he got everyone a quick fix assignment so that they could work towards an individual aim. I think now that the assignment and pictures that went with it were not that important by themselves at all. Important was the act of doing something quick with as much quality as possible and the reflection that came with it. Important was to learn where the shoe hurts, where the weak part of everyone of uns lies. The assignment was merely a means to this end. A vehicle. Some of us got lucky and found an assignment to carry on. But that was not necessary at all. Just a nice extra.

    And I felt miserable too, at some parts. I felt superfluous. Of course I was happy that DAH liked what I did, but upset at the same time, when he kept telling me that there was nothing left for him to say. I had not come there to hear that!!! I wanted a fight of some sort. I wanted it to hurt (no, I am not a masochist!) …. At the end I just wanted to feel that I was breaking a chain … I really wanted him to get me to a “next” level, at least to give me a hint as to how to get there. That did not happen directly. But it happened indirectly. I noticed at the end that he had done exactly what I had hoped he would do, but on a much more effective way. So sorry David, if I ever doubted!

    Now I think that it was/is especially important not to have more time for what we had to do than the time that was given. At least not in this first workshop. The pressure was important … The different kinds of feeling-miserable were important … the expectation of the slideshow was important … the difference of the students with all that came with it was important….

    … ok, now I lost my thread….
    hmmm …

    The hugest lesson for me personally was to see DAH in action at the breakfasttable with Chris&Atlas. All of the sudden I just knew what he was talking about all the time. I thought I had known before but I was utterly wrong.

    You know how it is: you hear words and … you can interpret them this or that way. But SEEING it, it just nails it down. I was sitting right opposite DAH when Chris started playing around with Atlas and … it just snapped! In a split of a second DAH was another DAH. He took the camera out without taking the eyes off Chris & Atlas and then … he jumped at it! I do not think that there was one possible picture of this situation he did not capture. He did not leave anything out. Nothing escaped him. Amazing! I did held my breath … I wished I had not left my camera in the room (another huge lesson!) otherwise I myself would have jumped at this opportunity.
    This again was something you cannot really get via the blog.
    David kept tellin us “squeeze all the juice out of the lemon” … But just when I saw him doing exactly that I knew for sure what he meant. Not before. Especially not because I am one of these people who only take 1, maybe 2 or max 3 shots of a subject. I never end up with 30 or more. Mostly 2, whereas the second one is a backup in case something with the first one goes wrong.

    So Arie, to answer your questions in short (“So what new aspects (not covered here) did you get out of the experience”)
    – I witnessed his brain work
    – I witnessed his camera work
    If I now read what he writes in the blog, I understand it differently than I did understand it before Tuscany.

    I hope these chaotic explanations can be of any help to some of you. Unfortunately my mind is not as organized as I wished it to be.

    Best to all of you,
    L

  • patricia…

    if i keep on saying “i love this image” every time to you, would you eventually stop believing it or hold less value to it? i hope not, because I MEAN IT EVERY TIME!!!!

    and dear grandma techno, it is no different this time… i really like the framing and the massive emotion in this image, and to top it off, your words reinforce that…

    lassal!!!
    omg you said the very thing i never dared to say but i most definitely felt at one point in david’s workshop (yes there was a workshop in look3, right before the festival there): i too felt very strange, happy and upset at the same time: i too wanted “more of a fight”, i too wanted to “feel” much more like i was breaking a chain, but i wasn’t.

    i distinctly remember a moment when david looked at my dark dark contact sheet and said “you just might be on to something there..” and i reacted (maybe stupidly) by saying “but.. but i make images like this all the time”

    of course it wasn’t till later that i realised the wisdom in the naiveness of my reaction. i had given my own answer.

    so yes, it was very weird feeling, VERY unsettling.. it made me reflect A LOT upon myself right there and then.. hence all my soul searching self-portraits during the workshop, me feeling very unsettled and walking out in the middle of the nights in c’ville… but (as you say too) only after a while it sank in and i grasped the perspective of it all…

    cheers
    anton

  • DAVID

    I got my postcards today …

    L

  • LASSAL

    First I’d like to thank you for your heartfelt words about my work. Your response is just what I’d hoped for–no pity, just a willingness to try to see things through my eyes. This is quite healing to me, and I didn’t even know I needed healing!

    Secondly, I very much appreciate your honest reflections on how David’s workshop was for you. You say it like you felt it and that’s why your words ring so true. I’ve never been in one of DAH’s workshops but have seen him at work. When he took my husband’s and my portraits for his Family project I was struck by the incredible intensity and concentration he brought to his work. This is going to sound strange but there was a deeply spiritual dimension to the process, authentic “mindfulness” as described by people like the Buddhist monk Thich Nhat Hanh and the Dalai Lama. Living in the moment. It was transformative to see and experience.

    ANTON

    My dear Bro, you can say you like my images as often as you like!!! I know you wouldn’t say it if you didn’t mean it. I so respect your artistic eye. Thank you.

    Patricia

    Patricia

  • No pity, Patricia, but truckloads full of RESPECT and ADMIRATION!
    And I do not know you … you are speaking through your work … :)!

  • Patricia
    I mean: I do not know you PERSONALLY …

  • After reading Lassal’s post about the workshop I am reminded of a particular Led Zappelin song.
    “The Lemon Song”

    I should have quit you, long time ago. [X2]
    I wouldn’t be here, my children, down on this killin’ floor.

    I should have listened, baby, to my second mind [X2]
    Everytime I go away and leave you, darling, you send me the blues way down the line.

    Said, people worry I can’t keep you satisfied.
    Let me tell you baby, you ain’t nothin but a two-bit, no-good jive.

    Went to sleep last night, worked as hard as I can,
    Bring home my money, you take my money, give it to another man.
    I should have quit you, baby, such a long time ago.
    I wouldn’t be here with all my troubles, down on this killing floor.

    Squeeze me baby, till the juice runs down my leg. [X2]
    The way you squeeze my lemon, I’m gonna fall right out of bed.

    I’m gonna leave my children down on this killing floor.

  • EKLEIPSIS

    And then there was the break,
    Impoverished sight ogled and licked up within the kneeling
    caught skywide and lenswise, orbiting
    and he let go, let it go like a drum skin stitched and unsaddled,
    lessening of light, enlarging of the edges caught carving.

    At that moment, turned-up umbrella sky,
    he recalled that in a minor tempest of a moment he once overheard
    a caravan of syllables like the sound of a wet leaf scratching against the tin skin
    of a late-October drain (cataract and plunge)in the soft crux of bus stop corner
    humid with seasonal words and bravado:
    “Beauty doesn’t interest me
    and Truth beckons only for the deaf
    like hunger whored over by the satiated.”
    And yet the words remain, rather abruptly by the speaker gone,
    even now when the words sound like the ponderous argument of equine ice cubes
    bustling around the dresaage ring of a well-trod glass collar.

    What had he wanted to say by remember those words the other had said
    waiting for bus, foresworn.
    Those ridiculously tossed up foggy words.

    Tarry, he things, tarry and toddle that which intersects,
    The rhyming of thumb to carbon, heat to matchstick bulb
    broke wide the spark of senseless twitch:
    the cacophonous collision twigged between thumb and memory
    of that misunderstood or misapprehended in the caboose buckling of words,
    the mindful mist clouding over that which fell away.
    That which fell away.

    That which fell away from you and from later me
    Toward (to ward) that umbilicus
    Yes the spiralling–
    what was sought or thought
    to that which was cupped and the Buick fin’s polished now to naught.

    Clip of the tip of sight, jettisoned despite what we might have hoped to catch,
    lens, vertabrae and hungry eye,
    Everything orbiting away.
    Every thing orbiting
    or bit away from you and from me.
    The bilnd-bind carving out along a cut

    Can you see?

  • upon from the the middle of Bones essay….to be read (if desireous ;)), with large, still glass of something, better while listening/watching this:

    LANCE:

    YO, CALLING YOU IN 30 MINUTES!

  • LASSAL and ALL…

    “I wished I had not left my camera in the room (another huge lesson!) otherwise I myself would have jumped at this opportunity.”

    I read these words written by Lassal earlier today and totally agreed. Knowing I MUST have my camera with me at all times. I walked into town this evening for an art opening and it was pouring rain when I left. I sat with rain jacket and umbrella looking at my camera on the table and finally decided I should leave the camera home as I did not EXPECT to find anything worth photographing.

    SOMEONE PLEASE SHOOT ME!!!!

    It was such a COSMIC JOKE. From the moment I got into town I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry. There was first a classic car show out on the street, then a performance by young folk dancers in costume (a project I have been working on) and it continued to get worse and worse. Tibetan monks visiting from India showed up and began a candlelight protest against China! When I couldn’t take any more I went upstairs to the art opening I had come for. That was the worst!!! I have been wanting to photograph the different people who attend art openings…The Native American painter had been studying in Japan and his Japanese friends were there visiting in full traditional Samurai and Geisha attire. These beautiful women from Tokyo were standing with their cameras taking photos of paintings and sculptures that looked just like them! Disgusting!!! I asked one of the Samurais to take his sword and cut my throat but he wouldn’t do it :)))

    Learn from my mistake everyone. Do not go ANYWHERE without your camera! Boo-hoo. :)) :((

  • FOR DAVID AND FOR LANCE:

    Lance, as we talked ;))

    for u amigo: from Quebec City:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/73821181@N00/2766472725/sizes/o/

    b

  • CATHY :)))

    quickly, as im again, off, just a word of comfort (i guess for Lassal too):

    A CAMERA IS IN THE CORNICE OF YOUR HEART!…

    and so you won’t miss anything, ’cause the heart wobbles with every step…there is always another picture, dont worry, but when you beat upon that rum-tum beat, that never diminishes :))

    to move beyond the camera, to get at the scar of things :)))

    i aint gonna shoot nobody, ;)))…

    that pic above, for my austin brother, as a note:

    that we carry in truth all the places inside us, and to carry (as patricia wrote above) mindfulness each moment…and then all comes, all comes, whether or not the fucking stupid camera is with us or not :)))

    that picture above: the rain, the cold, the winter, quebec, old men there everwhere, just waiting…

    forgive yourself :)))…

    GO PLACES, with or without the camera…cause places dont disappear, only cameras, and that means more :)))

    hugs
    running
    b

  • TOM:
    “The Lemon Song”
    —————————
    Tom, Just yesterday I heard the words to that song, watching tapes i’ve recorded of the History of BLUEs docu by Scorcese. I think it’s a Robert Johnson song (killed at 27, 2 pictures, 27 songs, just enough to make an undying legend out of it).

    Lassal, that was magisterial, it had to be said in your own words, and we definitely get a sense of what these WS are all about, not to speak of your words about David which seem as sharply on target than your portrait of him.

    My question is to the few who have taken an intensive one-week WS with him. 1)How do you keep it up…2)Did you?.. and 3)how do you psyche it out of you, without David around anymore? can it be called up or can it be lost? Thanks.

  • So true Bob. And without a camera you actually see more. With a camera you are more focused on segments of the scene, or I am anyway. Can’t remember who the photographer was or who was telling the story about how he operates (DAH maybe), but this guy would go out the first day of a new assignment without his camera.

    Sometimes during a beautiful sunrise or sunset, or the children doing something impossibly precious, someone will ask me why aren’t you shooting that scene? Because in that moment I want to experience the scene, not shoot it. It remains in my mind so vivid when I take it in like that.

    Well, the computer is home and tomorrow gets reinstalled and work resumes on the photos from my trip. No more goofing off.

    Lee

  • Herve,

    I’ve attended three of DAH’s workshops and each one was different. The one in his loft was the hairiest though. What happens is you begin to see your work from his vantage point and you are better able to edit your own stuff because he is there looking over your shoulder even when he is 4,000 miles away. You see it with less emotional attachment. I am slow in this work but he has always managed to work me through to a good finish. This essay I am working on is a result of something he told me in NY, about how maybe I need to do a piece about myself. Very difficult to do as I have mentioned here before. So easy to document those around you but to be able to capture a piece of yourself and present it in a manner that conveys to others your feelings…..

    That is what I have learned from him. I was reading about the workshop experience above and knew exactly what she was trying to say. He says more and teaches more with fewer words than any teacher I have ever had. Just a look is all it takes in many instances, or a silence until you digest what you have just verbalized.

    I highly recommend him to anyone that is ready to see the truth in their work.

    Lee

  • CATHY

    … as I did not EXPECT to find anything worth photographing
    ———————

    CATHY!!!! one does leave the camera at home because one does not WANT to take pictures, never coz’ one does not EXPECT to…. NEVER!

    Not to worry, pictures not taken simply did not exist. There is no real space, where pictures somehow are waiting to exist. To imagine this, that THERE WAS A PICTURE that we, I, You, missed is a trick of our ego (Darn, “I” missed it!).

    And then, you live to (tell of) regret, not to rejoice, which I think is what Bob was saying (I never know with Bob! ahahah)…

    PS: Anyway, forget my verbose and: get a freakin’ tiny compact! :-)))

  • cathy…

    oh must be a bummer… when i get caught in such a situation i try to take pictures without a camera.. training my gaze, trying to ‘see’ as many pictures as i can, and making mental notes (if i forgot my notebook too, that is)

    make any sense to you?

    anton

  • DAVID B
    beautiful story of Beate and you… Time is so relative, is it not? My last boyfried and I were together for over 7 years but I cannot tell I felt like I knew him. It did not feel like being together long enought to say anything…
    But then again, this probably was not a time issue.

    I agree… you can love different things different ways. You can love different partners, you can love work … It just adds. Only moral makes “alternatives” out of that. Moral and … time.

    I wish you sooooo well with this little fellow that is about to enter this world! You radiate such a happiness – it is wonderfull to see. :)))
    Best wishes to your Beate too …
    All my best to you.

    BOB
    after you described my slideshow I had to have a look at it again to see if we were talking about the same thing :)))
    Thanks for your inspiring words …!
    And I am about to ask DAH to take my fotos out of his show because I just know I will disappoint all of you. No edge to it :((((( Just soooo simple stuff…..

    ERIC
    Sh*t, I was too late again!!!
    :)))

    So good to hear about the children you are watching after!! I usually get such a bad feedback on this, people telling me I am wasting my money. Imagine!
    Maybe we could exchange experiences/ stories? I’d love to!

    In fact I was thinking about doing an online drawing course for some talented little ones, to get them a job perspective. I have been thinking about this for 2 years now but have not found the time as I am doing this other help project for the deaf too, which is using up a lot of resouces… But I hope I can start this drawing course somewhere in the future. The agencies in Brazil need illustrators too. And it can be a very well paid job if you are professional enough.
    But that does not really belong into this blog :)

    CATHY
    …… I SO understand!!! …… It must have been hell! It would have been for me.
    That is why I (almost) always carry this little point&shoot camera around with me. Even though it is a heavy compromise in quality.

    Cheers,
    Lassal

  • Hi Lassal,

    Thanks for your thoughts about the workshop. It is very useful for many of us who have not (yet) attended his workshops. I hope to make Tuscany next summer when we relocate to Switzerland.

    As for the quality of your photography, the picture I have seen of the workshop are enough to tell me that you have good eyes and a good heart. I do not need to see the actual slide show…

    Do I understand that you did not use digital during the workshop?

    Thanks – Arie

  • lassal

    glad to have met you.. glad we’re new friends..
    will read more of what you wrote later.. because.. it’s sunny today and the fish are biting..
    mackrel – you are mine, salmon.. i’m a gonna eat you..
    yes.
    life and love.. impossible to resist and this time, beate and i, we have both finally got it RIGHT.. thank goodness.

    bob

    always a pleasure and never a strain.. keep writing and illustrating our hearts more eloquently than we could.. keep on.. looking forward ot bones.. big up’s.

    patricia..

    next may.. next may.. happy trainers on, loud music and, perhaps, a dance or two.
    warm hug delivered to beate..

    panos

    humour is like life blood.. keep taking the piss :o)

    DAH & all.. lovely people. keep talking..
    on and on.
    fishing break.
    rockin.

  • ALL

    While DAH is off with his family and this blog is temporarily self -directed, I have a question to ask. Hope it will generate discussion.

    How do the people in your life, ie., significant others, family, friends, co-workers, respond to your photographs and to your life as a photographer? Do they show interest in your work or not? Are they supportive or not? Do they “get it” or not? Can they offer constructive criticism or are they inclined to criticize in ways that are not helpful?

    If they do not respond as you’d wish, how do you handle it? Where do you go to get the interest and support you need and deserve? If they do offer what you need, has this always been so or has it developed over time?

    Patricia

  • HERVE
    sorry, I did not see your questions earlier!

    “magisterial” … is there such a word? Sounds wonderful!
    And what does David mean when he sais he is “wearing boats”? I imagined him with little ships under his feet, which probably is not right :)

    Herve, unfortunately I cannot answer your questions at present. Not yet. We should talk about this in a couple of weeks or so. After all I just came back and it is pretty fresh still.

    On the other hand side …
    Actually the world kind of jumped at me when I retuned, as I had not been at home for quite a long time and work just piled up. There were lots of annoying “urgent” things that just get a little nasty if you do not take care of them in time, and so I lost the workshopfeeling in a matter of hours after getting back.

    At the end this was the reason for me to sit down and have a look at my pictures to figure out if I could make a little slideshow out of them. I wanted to get back into the mood.
    I usually have little anchors like this that I cherish and with them all these backdoors that allow me to revisit certain situations.

    And now I do have a project to follow, a project that was born in Tuscany.

    So I think the feeling can be lost quite easily. After all it was just a week of workshop. So it is up to everybody to find ways to keep it up.
    Different with the lessons you learned: If you really absorbed it, than i think it will just stay. Regardless of any kind of workshop-feeling. Just two different things.

    If you have the chance, than see to get to one of these DAH-workshops!

    ARIE …

    I did shoot digital. But with this little point&shoot camera from Nikon, the coolpix S10. You do not get it anymore, unfortunately. Quality is so-so, but it has this great revolving monitor (180°) and is small enough for my handbag. The files are not that big and it gets very noisy when light fades, but I did all my workshop pictures and the ones of the slideshow with this little thing.
    :)
    You can see my using it here:
    http://dark.lassal.de/hidden/the-making-of/

    Cheers,
    Lassal

  • PATRICIA …

    now that you asked … I realized that I gernerally do not tell people what I do. Not my family and not most of my OLD close friend… Why? Well … Not because I would not like to tell them but …

    See, I have a background of economics. I studied political siences and on top of it I am an ingenieur. For most of my family this would be the way to go (= security and income). But I left this path already during my studies to go into the arts and with this I scared everyone around me. The funny part is, that I actually financed my studies with my drawings, but people are still afraid I might starve if I do not get a “proper” job. Kind of unlogical …

    At the end it was much more difficult for me to deal with the fears other people had (in my place & as to my future) than it was to deal with building up a new life.

    So I quit talking about it. They feel better. I feel better.

    I built up a new circle of friends around my drawing business… Of course they know everything that I wrote above. Nevertheless the story is just repeating itself: If I tell them now that I am thinking about getting more involved with photography then THEY get scared and tell me I should not do it.

    So I am not talking to them about photography anymore. I am talking to my new friends on this blog and my new “workshop-family”.

    Most people are afraid of change and they just project this onto you.

    Thinking about it … it is a little sad. But I have not really thought about it too much until now. The world is so full of wonderful things and great people. You do not need to share everything with everybody I think. Especially not if it makes others unconfortable.
    It is a kind of responsibility I feel towards them.

    At the end you just need yourself to give you a thumbs-up!

    I hope I did answer your question, Patricia.
    Cheers,
    L

  • So Lassal, what is the topic you don’t want to discuss with us? :)

    Seriously, my wife has encouraged me since teh fist day we met…she offered me a Leica M8 as a present just after the birth of our daughter to tell me how much she appreciated my help during pregnancy…what else can I ask for?? yes maybe a workshop with DAH!!!

    Arie

  • CATHY

    The impressions you describe are those that’ll remain in your mind’s eye for the rest of your life. They’re kind of like the ‘loves that got away.’

    I’m eager to find out who else is going to be in NY as well!

    LASSAL

    I will definitely share. :)

    I enjoyed reading your workshop description. Helps me mentally prepare. By the way, your English is really good — Your sense of humor translates beautifully.

    LEE

    Define ‘hairy.’ :)))

  • Hi Lisa (Hogben),

    I think to have been given a chance to be born and to experience existence is the greatest of gifts. Most parents make mistakes and one of life’s challenges is to get over hard experiences and then to ‘live it’ – life. And, if we are able, to operate as vehicles for ”the broader benefit”.

    Btw, sounds like you’d make a great mother.

    Jenny

  • ALL

    Just met Glenn opposite ‘Sexyworld Megastore’ in Darwin tonight!

    He is gonna hate me for this- but (hehehehehehe…) had his pants off in 30 seconds of us meeting!!!!

    NOT LIKE YOU ARE THINKING- someone had dropped a drink on him and he changed his daks when he gave me a lift into town!

    Jamie Williams, another colleague is doing this gig in the Northern Territory of Australia with me shooting stills and I have to report Glenn Campbell is a lovely, lovely human being!

    So we all had a fun time checking out the Darwin ‘Underground’ scene- this is a beautiful place, still has that pioneering spirit!

    Glenn, thanks bro!

    Had a great night!

  • LISA
    I just read the eMail you sent me a while back … !!! Ufff …. will answer you shortly.

    ANNA B
    so you see that my English must be pretty bad. Just ask my father: I am “dry as a bone” – no sense of humor at all!!!!!
    ;)

  • Anna,

    Hairy: Coming in each morning (Saturday – Wednesday of a week where all shooting has to be done by Thursday evening) for a critique session that ended with me having nothing. Having DAH look at you like he can’t believe what is happening. Going out every day in a strange city trying to scare up a “story” about things you have no connection with at all from your life experience. Being held after class to figure it out. Facing the fact that I might not be a very good photographer and if all I do is make good photos of Sufis and Windmills, Insha’llah. Finally hearing what he said in very few words, you don’t listen or focus, and turning back from what I had planned to do on that formidable Wednesday and hearing what he said I needed to do.

    That day the light was absolutely amazing; there were extraordinary beings every where I looked, out of the ordinary situations and people who could not refuse me their photo. If I had not listened and then focused on what was going on I would have spent that week without accomplishing my goal, an essay. I would have been the first student to fail a DAH workshop.

    I remember one particularly hairy day when I brought in the photos of the Ken and Barbie series. The K&B idea came to me when I saw a NYC street drain with its debris and run off being sucked into a place rumored to harbor monster gaters. I envisioned a beautiful barbie doll lying amongst the debris and thought, “Lookie there, someone has gone and thrown away a perfectly good woman.”

    DAH had suggested a couple of times that maybe my essay should be on what was happening in my life, the ending of my 24 year marriage. I remember saying in one of those drama filled critique sessions, “It just seems so narcissistic.” The day I brought in the first photos of the K&B series, I remember jumping up and down and saying “WHAT THE FUCK!” DAH said, “Why don’t you tell us how you feel Lee?”

    There was also the whole thing about random photos. One morning (can’t remember which photo series I was on that day) the last photo was one my friend had taken of me putting the props together for the K&B series. (Guess it was the day of the K&B critique.) I was in an outfit that looked like a 1940’s one piece black bathing suit and she took this really sexy photo of me. I put it in at the end of my presentation of the K&B photos.

    DAH turned around and starred at me like I had some kind of large bug on my face and I said, “Damn random photos.” My friend coaxed me into doing it to jab at DAH, a man she had never met or knew of his work but was upset at because of my emotional turmoil in the class. She said, “It will be funny.” I still giggle actually.

    Hairy is walking down Kent Street at 9:30 at night on Wednesday night, clutching your camera and knowing you have the shots but scared to death to make sure. Walking into his loft, moving among the chaotic mix of party and work with Michael, DAH, Maria and others, downloading the photos and waiting.

    Hairy is DAH sitting at the computer to see what you have.

    Hairy is the process you go through before you let go and let it happen.

    Lee

  • Lee

    that IS hairy …

  • “How do the people in your life, ie., significant others, family, friends, co-workers, respond to your photographs and to your life as a photographer? Do they show interest in your work or not? Are they supportive or not? Do they “get it” or not? Can they offer constructive criticism or are they inclined to criticize in ways that are not helpful?

    If they do not respond as you’d wish, how do you handle it? Where do you go to get the interest and support you need and deserve? If they do offer what you need, has this always been so or has it developed over time?”

    Okay, in order:

    1. They don’t. This is seen as one of my endearing eccentricities and as such not worthy of further notice.

    2.They show very little interest in my work. This may be because I show little interest in my work and they think showing an untoward interest in photographs I think badly of is rude.

    3. They are supportive up to the point where I might spend the money I shell out to them regularly on photography. Getting between a relative and his handout is not a pretty sight.

    4. They get that if I didnt spend so much on pictures, I’d have more money to give to them. Other than that, they dont care one way or the other. They like my pictures of sunsets, though.

    5. I go to the DAH blog, he said in an outrageously blatant suckup to all and sundry,

    6. Everyone’s been very nice about the pix I’ve taken to this point, or at least everyone’s been very polite to my face, if that expression means anything on the Web. No one has come out and said that I should go home and take up quilting afghans instead and stop annoying the rest of the congregation with my crappy pix.

  • Just as a matter of curiosity, is anyone else here having trouble playing the galleries in LS?

  • Lassal, me too, I would like to converse about helping and sponsoring abroad. I am sad but not surprised that people in your country find it a useless activity. It explains a lot about why some countries never quite resolve abject poverty, exploitation and corruption. I hear and see such things in Cambodia, Thailand, etc… Law of karma and all that shit… Great excuse for mediocrity.

    Patricia, your question. I don’t listen much to what people around me say. It’s too much all over the place: I have a friend, a novelist quite versed into art, who thinks I am better than DAH (see what I mean!) for example. Another one would say “stick to great travel photos, work on your prints, forget all that artsyfartsy essay crap!”.

    Sometimes, hints are dropped or written by someone about your photos, and you find they recognize something of yourself, or your intent in a shot, and for me, this is all I am asking. these tidbits do boost confidence.

    Ultimately, the idea is that the world/profession comes around to discover that what you do is worthy of their attention, but if not, AFAIC, it makes no difference to who I really am.

    I am just passing by, here on earth, really…. Hey, I like that, write this on my ahes slab ;-)

  • BTW, Patricia (and all), the 2 friends i talked about. In 4 years since I started P seriously, that’s it, that’s the only ones who took the pain to look at many of my pictures and forward their thoughts. 2…

    PS: Ok, 2and 1/2, David sent a critique on my EPF lovefest shots last year…
    I do hope I become his friend one day to make 3! :-))))…

  • Friends of mine who are very close see my photography with a prejudice that comes with close friendship. A few others give very good feedback like DAH would. One friend, just the other day, helped me get past a block on the essay I am doing now by giving very constructive feedback and asking me first of all what I want to say.

    My ex-husband rarely asked to see my work and usually spent very little time with it. But totally supported me financially to do the workshop and equipment thing.

    There are varying degrees of support in my family. My kids and grandkids are very proud that their tutu (Hawaiian for grandmother as we don’t say the g word in our home) takes such good photos of them during vacations and other events in our lives.

    But the support that is needed most and that sometimes fails me is my own. Sometimes I just don’t get my work and other times I totally do.

    The most important thing is to do what you want and not worry about what others think. Take the teachings from those that come into your life (like DAH) and hear the feedback on your work and then put that all together with how you feel and what you want to say.

    Lee

  • LANCE:

    GREAT to talk, at last :)))…

    ok, appropos of our chat…2 pics for you…

    quick scans, no time to play with the quality, but u get the drift ;)))

    let me know if the book is in your hands :)))

    for u: my pics…these were throwaways…but still part of the bobblack edit that stays in my head, always….dont give up on the Rosenfield edit! :))

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/73821181@N00/2769037636/

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/73821181@N00/2768211547/

    shoot well tonight :))

    hugs

    b

  • LEE

    #*@~! Your ‘hairy’ post made me feel caught in a wave [bodysurfing], stuggling to make sense of up + down while gasping for air!!

  • Familiar with the feeling Anna.

    Lee

  • when you beat upon that rum-tum beat, that never diminishes :))

    BOB, LEE, HERVE, ANTON, LASSAL, ANNA B…

    Thanks to all for your “camera/no camera” comments.
    I got over the emotions I wrote about pretty quickly and moved into a place of realization (as echoed by you) that the images, especially of the folks from Tokyo are now more strongly imprinted in my mind than if I had “captured” them with a camera…and yes, how lucky I was to be there in the room with them as well as the Tibetan Monks, talking with them and enjoying the evening. Photographs are for sure not the marker of “having lived fully” and regrets about photographs missed don’t add much other than misery to ones life.

    HERVE…your ego comment echoes words I wrote to Lee the other day. Very true. Pure non-duality. What never existed can not be “missed.” Thanks for the reminder! :))

    ANTON, I did try to imagine at the time that I had my invisible “heart” camera. Actually those shots turned out really well :))

    …Which brings up a completely different subject…
    Something I have been wondering if anyone else around here experiences…

    I used to love when shooting with film, especially while traveling, the time lapse between taking the shots and coming home to see them. I often have such a great experience while shooting (now digital) that it sometimes detracts for me to QUICKLY see it all reduced to an image, a couple of moments. If I wait a while between “experiencing” and “editing” it doesn’t seem to influence the original experience. Also, if I wait I can look at what I’ve shot more objectively, as I would an old photo albumn. Does that make sense at all?

    I am still waiting to see what I shot last week…I’ll look tomorrow but also don’t want to turn the entire weekend experience into how “well” or “not well” I did.

  • Meant to put quotations around the top quote…from BOB.
    Didn’t mean to take your words BOB :))

    LEE and LASSAL…
    Very much enjoying the discussion about what happens in a DAH workshop. My time will come, soon I hope but for now it’s nice to enjoy hearing about it from the comfort of home…without the stress and loss of sleep! :))

  • I hope I can make it home by tomorrow night..
    I wanna present YOU all,
    a medieval story… I went back in time today
    ( for at least a few hours..) I “met” the
    Queen of England, I witnessed a fight in a
    “Joust arena”, belly dancing, dragons, owls,
    pirates, fairies jugglers and perverts…
    Tomorrow…
    Peace and love to YOU ALL…

  • Can’t wait to travel back in time with you, Panos!!!

    Patricia

  • David and All – everyone should watch this film – should be mandatory – the type that stands alone both musically and visually..

    Heima +

  • ALL….

    i have a friend’s wedding to attend today on the beach and will shoot as part of the family work…i will catch up on everything here no later than tomorrow….

    full moon going down just now over the water….hmmmmm, where is New York and my “real life”?? definitely not here, not now…

    peace, david

  • PATRICIA,

    Interesting question on how does family in particular respond to our photographs… My wife Catherine is overall supportive and has a very good eye although I have to admit that she is sometimes growing a bit tired of that passion that is occupying some much of my precious spare time… The good thing is that despite being an engineer herself…she is actually an artist, a gifted one when it comes to drawing, painting so she understands… She has also met David, some of the students during a workshop we had in Rome so she also undertands how one can get hooked here…. I thank her for letting me travel when I want, take off for few days and making this relatively easy…. The main family “support” is actually with my parents as they both share an interest for photography. My mother is not a photographer herself but used to be my father’s “assistant” when he was developing B&W in a darkroom at home during my childhood….my father is also an engineer (retired now) who loves photography…we have traveled many times together just to share the joy of going somewhere far to photograph…we have been to India, Senegal, Guatemala, Cuba etc together…I said that before on the blog but he has also attended a workshop with David and him and I have always had this “healthy” father and son friendly yet intense “competition”. Competition is probably the wrong word as there is nothing to win here but somehow, this rivalry has been pushing us for some years to try to get the very best shots we can get…. These days, he is still there commenting about what I do….He has his own views on my boxing essay for example…we do not always agree (actually rarely but what would you expect….he is the father….).

    As you can see, I do have overall support in the family for photography…I would say that the biggest challenge is actually about considering photography has a potential real job as opposed to just a great passion to have outside your day job… As I said, my father was an engineer, a very good one who was leading a research center for BP….my brother (one year older) is also an engineer….my wife is an engineer is the same corporation as me…I am an engineer myself as I told you all before….so I am not exactly in a family that seriously thinks of art being a real profession…. Spend all your spare time into photography ABSOLUTELY….leave a great job for becoming full time photographer?????? Not sure…. This is where the rationale engineering side of the family brain starts getting in the way…..but who knows…maybe not for ever…

    Good topic of discussion….

    Cheers,

    Eric

  • DAVID,

    Enjoy that fool moon! I had it last night (full moon and an eclipse, mmmmm)

    ALL,

    I’m again out of town with a slow internet connection so I just could take a fast look to all the comments (difficult to follow). Seems like many of us will wear David’s mask in Perpignan!! hope David also wears one so it will be funny to discover who is the REAL David hahaha

    Nice to know that Eric and Diego will be there two!

    BTW, Audrey wrote me saying that there are two places in Perpignan called “Cafe la Poste”. Which one is the good one, David???

    Best wishes to you all!

    Ana

  • HERVE
    i kinda have to put this right… Maybe because I have been all over the place as a child, my “Freundeskreis” is not very german. I know quite a lot of people here, but my friendships come more from ancient times in university, academy or from my first jobs. And it is more of a crazy little international bunch than anything else. It maybe sais a lot about where I come from when I tell you that most of them ended up in some kind of consulting firm or so. I am the lost child there, because I was the one to leave the path … They just went straight on…

    Why I am saying this? Because I feel I have to defend this “country” a little, even though I do not feel so attached (still not after all these years). :(

    “Lassal, me too, I would like to converse about helping and sponsoring abroad. I am sad but not surprised that people in your country find it a useless activity. It explains a lot about why some countries never quite resolve abject poverty, exploitation and corruption. I hear and see such things in Cambodia, Thailand, etc… Law of karma and all that shit… Great excuse for mediocrity.”

    I am not into the details but I think German people are very generous when it comes to donations or so …

    I really was talking about my old “friends”, that got sucked up in their elite lifestyles, unfortunately (I still hope they will awake eventually and come back to life … Have not given up yet). And some people from my family, who also are too much into figures and numbers …

    I see what you mean, Hervé, and maybe you are right – I just cannot tell and have to admit I was talking about people I grew up with, who mostly are not german … but from all over the place.

    :)))
    I am sorry if what I said could be misunderstood in this way. It is kind of tricky to write in a blog.

    But definitively could/should talk about helping others! Even with photography there are such great possibilities to do so! I for example did a shooting for a NGO in Kenya. And I know that TPW is planning to organize a couple of similar workshops (for NGOs) in Kalkutta! Would that be of interest for you or anybody else?

    Cheers,
    Lassal

  • panos…

    can’t wait man!

    cathy

    interesting, yes i too wait a couple of days/weeks, because it forces me to distance myself from the experience… BUT i still shoot digital… load the images onto the computer and i don’t look at them at all… this is really hard so i have a trick: usually i do this immediately when i get home from shooting, when i KNOW that i am dead tired, so i can’t look at the images anyway… so i’ll be loading up my CF cards, falling asleep, making dinner or cleaning up the house at the same time, making phone calls, and when i hear the beep of the copying baing finished, i just insert the next one. job done, no looking, switch off computer, wait a week. same effect as working on film :-)

    i remember when i started out on digital not so long ago used to load, develop and select all at the same time, and that really did not work for me. i always would select a complete different set of pictures if i would “let it rest” for a while.

    oh yes, and i seldom “chimp”, only as a means of helping my exposure once in a while, but i try not to do it for “review”

    so i think it does not have to do as much with the medium being film or digital, but with the photog being able to “force” or “control” his/her own rhythm of shooting/developing (digital or analog)/selecting, no matter what the medium… stick to what developing rhythm works for you, fast or slow, don’t let “digital” force you otherwise…

    of course this has nothing to do with “shooting” fast or slow…

    patricia

    good question also…
    my family supports me wholeheartedly no matter what, i can’t really judge if they “understand” what i want to say but i think they do (but that is the case for anyone who sees my images), they do raise an eyebrow sometimes, and that, however small, often makes me rethink the project for the better… i do talk as much as can to my mother (the coolest person on earth, naturally), she does wonders, pierces right through the bull, sometimes even without words, just watching her reaction to a photograph or story. and i have 2 or 3 close friends whose opinions i value a lot, and usually i listen to them, even if they don’t know they are giving advice at that moment :-)

    yes i think it is important not to let yourself be guided by the “opinion of the masses”, the masses being family and friends, but i think you kinda ‘feel’ whose opinion “weighs in” more… and that doesn’t even have to be because of the person, but it can also be because of the moment…

    i have tremendous difficulty still liking an image after all my “opinionators” don’t like it. i shouldn’t, i know i should be stronger and stay true to my first feeling, but how???? i always feel like i am swinging a lot between liking and not liking a photograph, sometimes this really makes me feel like a traitor to my own work, and all that just because some person does not “agree” or “see” it…. how can i keep strong? *should* i keep strong? or is it strong to be able to let go of a photograph? what is “strong” anyway…

    peace
    anton

  • Hi all,
    David, there is 2 café de la poste, one place of Castillet and one the other place of Verdun, Which one is the good one ? Thank you.
    Good holidays, Audrey

  • all

    just out of curiosity…. did we ever hit the 500 comment mark on the blog here? the mythical number…. almost there…

    …i think david deserves it :)

  • ALL:

    i’d wanted to leave this before David had begun TPW, but got overwhelmed with work this week, so, late in the day, here’s something…maybe it explains more my own ideas and relationship to picture making, but given all the recent questions and concerns and comments raised about by Lassal and others, Patricia with MEM’s pronouncements and each photographers own personal struggles, i thought it might be some more breakfast….from and interview with my of my hero’s…a photographer who spent most of his life, as a photographer, in isolation from the photographic world, only to emerge as one of the giants, one of the great poets of our time and any time…if you are not familiar with him, i would simply say peel you eyes and settle, with wine, for a few days away from others and swallow his work…:))

    a photographer i spoke yesterday with Lance about…

    http://www.amazon.com/Mario-Giacomelli-Alistair-Crawford/dp/071484604X/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1218989094&sr=8-6

    Mario Giacomelli…

    “It may look as if it’s just a matter of chance if photos turn out good or bad, but that isn’t really true. Sometimes they come from nothing or everything which amounts to the same thing. I try to photograph thoughts. The subject is useful as a way of conveying what I want to say. Nothing happens by accident–neither the white nor the black. …what forms in my mind. I can nearly always se a photo before I make it. …There are so many things to see when you make a photo. The last photo I took has a strange story. I had a dream about dogs and a man’s head appearing. Sometimes I take a few photos with the timer just to finish a roll. After all, we’re all here on earth as if on a stage, so I took a shot of some plastic pigeons and a Doberman. When I was ill and had my most recent operation, no photographs presented themselves but while I was lying in the darkness I saw so many strange things, so many images passed before my eyes. I saw pigeons. I’ve liked them ever since I was a child. They fascinate me because they always come back. Then i saw different colored butterflies–to think i’ve never photographed butterflies–and I reached out as if to catch them. Pigeons and butterflies…And all in grey because when I’m ill I miss the sun terribly and I see everything in grey. When I came home from the hosppital I wanted to go into my studio and walk about among my photographs. I think there’s no better medicine in the world–nothing does me as much good as photos. And I did go into the studio and I saw lots of images, many that I recognized, but no butterflies. Then I saw the photo, the pigeons, the man’s face and the dogs and I thought:

    I would like to tell you this memory

    Not I ‘want’ to tell it but I ‘would like’ to: it would please me to be able to do it.

    La notte lava la mente…”

    -from an interview with Mario Giacomelli

  • BOB
    now I see what you meant …
    What a great honor for my little landscape!
    Thank you so much!
    (still looking at the images of Giacomelli)
    Lassal

  • LASSAL:

    ;))))…you have to get one of his books (better the big comprehensive book i linked too), cause while the website gets you some sense, you have to see the pics large…funny: Giacomelli is one of the 20th century’s greatest documentary photographers, landscape photographers and conceptualists/fine artists…there’s no one like him (who accomplished greatest in all 3 styles)…and his prints (i had the great fortune to see one 2 years ago) are an astonishment…graphically…

    get the book: you’ll be lost for days…or weeks…or like me, years ;))))

    hugs
    running
    b

  • BOB + LASSAL

    THAT BOOK is one of my all-time favorites.

    Prepare to drool, Lassal.

  • LASSAL

    Sorry, I thought you were in Brazil or something like that. Germany never came in my thoughts.

    No country is perfect, but the words abject poverty, exploitation and corruption would not fit as arguments to define “western” nations.

  • HERVE

    no problem ;)
    I mentioned I grew up in Brazil — that is probably where the misunderstanding resulted from.

    But as you said: no country is perfect! And poverty, exploitation and corruption have their places here too. Unfortunately.

    Cheers!

  • DAH said earlier “full moon going down just now over the water….hmmmmm, where is New York and my “real life”?? definitely not here, not now…”

    You are in your real life David. Anna, are you going to ask David to define real life?

    Patricia, remember our discussion about tattoos for peace? I got mine yesterday. Check the link below. Funny how much time I have for so many things….

    I wanted to share my new tattoo with the blog even though it is just in its beginning stage. More added Friday to create an environment for the horse of peace. She reminds me at this stage of a japanese rice painting of a war horse. I like the idea of turning the war horses to peace horses.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/27850900@N03/2770940211/?edited=1

    aloha,

    Lee

  • bob

    Giacomelli… some mighty impressive work there.. scraped some off my savings and ordered the book too. strange but a lot of price difference between amazon.com and amazon.co.uk – lassal you might want to look into that, if not too late already!!

    cheers
    anton

  • I’m still in Sardinia. First place with internet. I just read almost 500 and Audrey giving a “rendez vous” for Pe4rpignan. I’ll check on Tuesday when I’ll have access back to web.
    I’ll be in perpignan from the 1st to the 7th of september.
    I’ve met Giacomelli but a long ago.. a kind of ispiration point.
    He would have appreciate this forum.

    “Fin dal primo rullino mi sono accorto che il mezzo meccanico non conta niente, perché sono sempre riuscito a far fare alla macchina fotografica quello che volevo”.

  • ANTON
    Oh no! Too late … :(

    I looked on amazon.de but just found a used one in mediocre conditions for the same price. So I went for the used ones (in excellent condition) from the US.
    The Euro softens the price, thankfully … But still it does not get near the UK-price.

    One can never be carefull enough… Thanks for telling. Everybody else who wants to buy the book, please visit amazon.co.uk!!!

  • lassal…

    oh noooo…. sorry i was too late to warn you… but the book will be great i’m sure and worth every penny or eurocent… i’m waiting for mine with lots of anticipation…

    love

    500

  • david… we made it… for you… comment nr 500… i propose toast to this blog and all the great people…

    PANOS get me a Duvel now!!!

  • LASSAL, ANTON:

    I promise you (at whatever the price) Giacomelli will NOT disappoint…i know how much of an exaggeration it sounds, but once you discover his photographs, you will not be the same….and god, i wish each of you could see what the photographs look like in real life….if i were left bereft of all my photography books, that book would be the only one that i would need…it is that large, that profound…and it doesnt matter what kind of photographer you are: 1) Journalist/Documentary (all is work on the poor, his magisterial gypsy work long before beloved Koudleka, the sardina work, the farmers, the pig slaughterhouse, the chartes work) 2) landscape (all his stuff on Italian landscape is unequaled, unequaled), 3) Art (his work on “man’s world” on the priests on painters) and his conceptual stuff (all the essays at the end of his life, and his essays based on Borges or Italian poets)…it’s almost incomprehensible to image the range of his ideas and his work…that book contains like 5 different types of books inside…when i first bought it when it was published a few years ago, i couldnt look at anything else for weeks and weeks….if you’re disappointed, i’ll make an oath to put my cameras to sea…

    LAURA :))))…lucky you….and yes, im sure he would have loved this blog…certainly the diversity of ideas and work…and that in the end it’s only about the celebration of this disappearing thing called life…

    b

  • Herve : ” no country is perfect, but the words abject poverty, exploitation, and corruption would not fit as arguments to define “western” nations. ”

    i think that if you drove out to the Pine Ridge Indian Resevation, in South Dakota, you might here stories from elders that are contrary to the above statement. however your right in that the democratic system seems to be the best thing going, although not without it’s faults..

    http://www.american-pictures.com/

    i grew up across the way from a indian reservation, a very close friend of mine whom is lakota sioux invited me out to the Pine Ridge Reservation for his Sundance !! very interesting stories and sad history that you will hear by listening to these stories from a race that is very humble and stoic in regards to there culture. anyway someone here on this forum did a whole foto essay on this specific reservation. as i remember good work also he made a book out of the pictures as well..

    as for the word exploitation: many children that are sex from all over the world here in the united states. who said slavery was abolished ? that is complete nonsense unless your blind, deaf, or just not aware..

    as for the word abject poverty: any major city in america has plenty of homeless lying on the sidewalks or wandering around aimlessly completely out of there minds.

    i understand that we whom live in the first world have many blessings and so much to be GRATEFUL for every waking hour !!
    if we go to our history books we can see that wherever there are people it’s inevitable that there are some types of problems that infect the population. for some reason as smart as we all are in the 21st Century we have not figured out a way to all get along – Coexist – most want peace – not all though – i think i will reread the book Brave New World and dream about a UTOPIA !!

  • BOB …
    it is going to take about 2 weeks before I get it. Cannot wait! ;)
    Will give you feedback right away.

    He did do his own prints, did he not? Looks so experimental … I assume printing just was part of it all.
    How large were the prints you saw? I am just curious, as you mentioned them twice now …

    By the way…
    where is Panos?
    He has never been away that long, has he?

  • Yes, he use to do him own print. The ones I saw weren’t so large.In the large size 60 may be.
    You know? He started as a typograph. But he was also a poet…
    As Bob? :)
    Or may be in the future a Bukowsky Panos. Or a Jerome Akaky. ;)))

  • LASSAL: :)

    yes, he printed everything…in a small “darkroom” (bathroom) littered with paper and cigarettes and stains…he is one, also, of the great modern printers…usually his pics were printed small (not the monumental stuff of today): mostly 11×14 (and all sizes, often square sizes)…not big..but, overwhelming…as for the printing, yes it’s remarkable…the pics i saw were both 11×14…tiny (given what photograhers usually print today) and both completely overwhelming…graphically, 2 of the most beautiful prints i’ve seen…blacks like forest night, whites like the blanched skin of new paper….grain…distance…and not a fucking waisted space on the picture…1 was a landscape (small tree on top of his weird, face-like landscape) the other with people…small and intense and i was so overwhelmed, i went back every day for a week just to look at them…afteward, i didnt look at another show for the entire Contact festival…

    as much as i loath the comment about film and it’s timelessness (digital is bad nonsense), what i think film often teaches is that all is limited…but for him, it was all part of the process: shooting, light, people/land/faces and of course the beauty (like paintings/frescoes) of his prints…

    what think that i love about digital printing process (working with Photoshop) is that ALL printing techniques are now available, and the opportunity for generosity and for mistakes, with PS, is much more forgiving…while I miss alot being in the darkroom (6 months ago i made a decision to print digitally from my film negatives, though marina still uses darkrooms), i cherish the freedom that PS grants (money, time, revision, etc)…

    but, well, if you can get to a museum with his prints: make a pilgrimmage ;)))

    running
    b

  • LEE

    Your horse for peace is beautiful, full of grace & movement, very painterly in execution. Be sure to show us the finished product. There is something profound about choosing to live your feelings for peace on a cellular level. I got my peace tattoo for my 64th birthday and I can honestly say that having peace embodied in this way has transformed my life.

    I also want to offer deepest gratitude for your sharing so honestly about your personal feelings as you made your way through David’s loft workshop. What you said rang so true, so real. It helped me see how taking such a workshop might well manifest as a painful transformation, but a transformation all the same. Learnings come in all ways.

    BOB B

    I haven’t responded to your sharing of a bit of the text from Bones because I have needed time to let it sink in. I find your use of words to be like a multimedia artist who adds and subtracts layer upon layer until the “finished”–is anything EVER finished?–work is so incredibly dense it can take years to begin to understand what is being said. And for each viewer/reader this understanding will be unique. I can already tell that “Bones of Time” will be a work that will reach so deep that dredging my response to it up to a verbal level will be next to impossible. Of course I am going to want it in book form so I can hold it in my hands, read it aloud to myself and sink my eye into its mysterious images.

    ALL

    I thank those who have already responded to my questions and those who will do so in the future. I posed those questions out of pain, the pain of feeling unseen and unappreciated. This happens to us all at one time or another. I always find it to be a wake-up call, that call being to stop looking outside myself for understanding, appreciation and affirmation. Those must be homegrown or they are worthless. Actually more dangerous than worthless. I must be creator, viewer, teacher, critic all wrapped up into one. Yes, others can teach, support, offer constructive critiques, but I am the sole arbiter of my own art. It is my unique aesthetic that is at its core, my vision that is being made manifest, my creative flame that is igniting the whole.

    All that is true while it is also true that the opinions and support of persons I admire means so very much, people like David, like all of you, like MEM and the folks in her workshop, like my community over at PBase. Without these people in my life I might still be taking photos of flowers, butterflies & boats out on the lake! Well, not likely but you get what I mean. You are essential to my growth, and it is your honesty that makes that so. I thank each one of you, and hope I can offer you a small part of what you need and deserve.

    Patricia

  • In the NY times article, the police raided the brothel. In Cambodia, the police gets a share, that is if the local constable does not own the brothel already. And what is important, EVERYBODY knows it.

    I said Cambodia, I could say India, or China, etc….. See also who are the gangs and mafias running these businesses, rarely outside of the ethny/nationality of the victims? Few of the slaves speak well english, they are kept and live in fear, fear for their families as well.

    Our justice system makes it so that it has proven hard to condemn, or even prosecute, the smart slime that operate them, even the ethnic/national communities closest to the victims cry foul when medias try to report. I followed that a couple years ago in SF, regarding south Korean sex slaves in the city.

    Not one word was uttered in compassion of the girls, in asian zines, editorial, readers, even “leaders” of the asian-american community cried foul. They lambasted the SF CHRONICLE for ever-spreading again that same negative image of Asians.

    That’s the only type of point I was making. acceptance or denial that such wrongs are happening on the part of the communities, disapora or national citizenry.

    Last for me on this.

  • LEE
    I did not really answer to your resumee on your workshop-experience because I could not find the words to experss myself. Patricia did it wonderfully and I just want to thank you again for sharing your thoughts about these difficult moments with us. It is important to aknowledge that we do not only neet light, but also shadow, to grow. Like a photo, we need both. So thank you for helping us to see.

    Sorry this sounds so strange but it is so really hard to express… I guess not just me was waiting for Patricia’s help.

    BOB
    see… I am missing so much here … normally I cannot but look into the forum every 3rd day or so and not for long either. These days are really an exception! I have to admit I missed the whole BONE-story! I thought it was some random thought you had before TPW and jumped on it with the idea of making a disposable series… I even got the disposable film in Tuscany for that … Ojeh…
    Sorry for that. Did not want to play around with something serious.

    As to the darkroom/film/digital discussion…
    You were describing his mess in the darkroom … the cigarettes, papers, etc.etc.etc… I think this was oh so important for some of his prints! He used it! And he certainly got wonderful coincidences through these experiments. Seeing this makes me a little sad because I am 100% digital. I have never had the chance of developing anything myself. Yes… I know Photoshop, and I appreciate it for the same reasons you do… But there are a number of accidents (leading to astonishing and magical results) that you would never find in Photoshop. You could construct them but would that be the same? I fear not at all… Maybe Adobe has something like that in the future. Most probably there will be something with random effects that will show up. Nevertheless at the moment I see this lack of “real” & complex accidents as a major downside of the digital world…

  • PATRICIA

    You have not told us what your husband thinks of your photography.
    How does he fit in feeling seen/unseen, appreciated/unappreciated? Does het “get inside” your photographic world/work?

    It’s funny, there are so many friends, so many people around us in our lives, yet, when I think of what were my passions in life, most often, it was one or 2 people, max, i could share it with. Person to person.

    Even, disciplines, places, activities that have zillion people flocking to, it always comes down to much less than the fingers on one hand, the people (around you) whom you can share intimately your passion with, and not just having them merely acknowledging it.

    Not a complaint, a fact.

  • “And I know that TPW is planning to organize a couple of similar workshops (for NGOs) in Kalkutta! Would that be of interest for you or anybody else?”

    LASSAL, it sounds really interesting! i think I may be interested… Send me details, please!! :-)

    Hug

    Ana

  • PATRICIA :))

    thanks for your lovely words…they mean a lot to me :))…what you received was the final text for Ordinary Things :)) (part of which will be in bones essay)..waiting to hear what the magazine says…if they decide to publish, i’ll share with everyone…i only sent it to a few folk to see what they thought after i’d sent it to publication…so, i wanted you to have a sneak peak, as a writer yourself :)))..

    who knows what people will think ;)))…1st magazine (big time one here in Toronto), passed on the 1st version (since expanded/revised to the version you have) suggesting it was “too much” for their readership ;)))…i always wonder why publishers/editors have such little faith in their readership….

    and just so you understand, my frustration with MEM’s comment has NOTHING to do with you my dear :)))…you have to be one of the most open minded, soul-giving spirits i’ve met…so, i hope u didnt think anything i wrote was in anyway directed to you :))))…

    gotta run
    hugs

    LASSAL:

    THE BONES of TIME is the project (about my son, my father, dinosaur/cow/human bones, memory, my childhood,) i did for David’s assignment,…im now writing the essay to accompany it…who knows what people will think…i’ll send the pics to david at the end of august, before we meet in NY…when it is shown, who knows…but, yes, that’s what that is about…

    as for digital/film…i cannot emphasis enough that this is just not important at all, not on ioda, unless it’s important for someone to use either…i use film for a variety of reasons, but in no way to i think digital inferior. there is so much amazing work being done with digital format/printing/distribution that anyone who thinks for a moment that somehow digital is less doesnt know shit from shinola, and i really wonder about their understanding of photography (which is what upset me so much about MEM’s pronouncement)…the truth is that all formats afford brilliance and surprises and mistakes and discoveries…i’ve actually thought of printing techniques to do while playing with PS and then later did it in the darkroom…and of course, vice versa…and Lassal, there ARE MISTAKES AND DISCOVERIES possible with digital cameras and PS…i’m about as technologically stupid as a caveman, and i know little about PS (and often have to ask Marina) but just by playing with it have led me to re-think some of the stuff and ways i shoot and what im after…the truth is that film and digital, just as all the processes of development and darkroom printing, are ONLY TOOLS nothing more, just techniques…nothing unequaled…it is all alchemy, all of it still an amazing collision of shit…there are things i can do with a negative (my negs are dense dense, ’cause of how i develop and shoot) that I would struggle with in a darkroom…and yea, there are things i can not do with PS that i could in the darkroom…it’s a tradeoff, but in the end, what is the goal:

    not one photograph, but an act of faith that somehow the work as a hole will speak to someone about something…;)))…and i get the same joy from looking at digital stuff as i do with film, just as i get the same joy at looking at people’s family albums or looking at 19th century pictures and daguerretypes :)))

    what’s the goal, the end purpose?…yea, i still love the depth and grain of film (that’s why i still use it) but there are many other amazing things about photography besides what the tactile appearance of a print looks like: there’s story (for me above all) and that can be magical in any form…DO NOT DESPAIR :)))

    running
    b

  • AND ONE LAST FOLLOW UP (i promise ;))

    photographers who use digital cameras HAVE NOTHING TO APOLOGIZE FOR or nothing to regret. I know im sounding like a harpie but this is so important to me, because i hear so many people saying how important film is or i hear photographers feeling sad or expressing regret that they dont shoot film…nonsense. I’ve told this to Mike Berube a 1,000,000 times over beer…his work from Kenya was gorgeous and moving and important, (compassionate and empassioned) and his prints (digital) were really really gorgeous, and i would take MEM to his exhibition and defy her to call them not timeless…

    and there is my friend John vink. His work from Cambodia, and in particular his long project QUEST FOR LAND is comprised of both film work and digital work. In fact at the moment (john, if you’re reading correct me if i am wrong), he uses only his M8…and much of the work from Quest was shot (b/w) using his M8…and he honored me by allowing me to show his Quest for Land as the opening volley in my projection series last year and the essay stunned people: masterpiece after masterpiece after masterpiece and the story is one of the finest long-term journalistic work of the last 10 years…and we all sat in silence and breaking…and his visual aesthetic couldnt be farther from my own orientation and yet that story and those pictures speak to me on a human level that we rarely encounter….and i’d challenge anyone to look at the work and even care what camera or what format was used…

    just know, above all, what matters is the commitment behind the work….

    regret should come from not dedicating yourself to the vision that you wish to carry forth, whether that is to document our human lives and sorrows and joys or to make more personal expressions of thought and feelings, not whether the images have come from a film or digital camera, a 35mm or medformat, an expensive gear or a cheap box…it just doesnt matter in a deeper, human sense…

    what matters is the conviction (and the humour) of what you wish to express…

    ok, off to finish the book im reading (kapucinsky’s Another Day of life)…

    hugs
    b

  • BOB…
    ;))))
    I have to go to sleep now… Late here. Dog is snorring already. ;)

    You know, when I was still doing a lot of drawings, I used to use EVERYTHING I could get hold of. Drinks, food, waste… even dust. Have you ever looked how different dust can be? All kind of colors, all kind of textures… so different. So rich. I used it to add something to my drawings/paintings … It was a purpuseful accident. Sometimes it would just be the start of a long and unplanned journey, sometimes it turned out to be rubbish alltogether. Mostly it was something that pleased me a lot – regardless of the results. A child playing in the sand… only that the child had lots of experience and kind of unconciously knew where to stop… Most of the times at least. I ruined a lot of nice pieces but that was a small price for the rest.
    I can say, I miss it a little… Have not played with dust anymore for ages…

    Maybe that is why I am getting sentimental.

    I do not miss film. I never fell in love with photography while I had a film camera. It never caught me. It began with digital … I loose interest when I have to wait for a week to see results. I can wait until the night for a close up but that is it. Next day is next day and I will find new things to look at. At least that is my expectation.

    I am very, very restless in a way.

    I guess this goes to Cathy’s question, too. I need to know quickly if the image is ok because I always have the urge to keep moving on. Especially because I do not usually take that many photos of a subject. So for me the possibility of checking is essential for feeling confortable.
    Strange, is it not? I am not sure how this fit’s into my charachter… Family & Friends would see me for days in a darkroom, I am sure of it. But I know I would probably go crazy. ;)))

    ANA
    I will check on the NGO info tomorrow, yes? I still have not unpacked everything … :(( Too busy writing here :)) But it sounds indeed very interesting!

    Good night everybody.
    L

  • Bob …
    we crossposted.
    I agree fully. My point was just being sad to miss a good playground. But it is not my playground. So I am not THAT sad :))))))))

    Now …
    sleeeeep.

    So good to talk to you ….

    L

  • Bob;

    I hope you don’t mind a bit of tech talk….. What do you use to scan your Holga negs? I’m thinking about starting a local project using a Holga (instead of digital). I’m looking to work on a series of portraits of people in the (NZ) art scene. I feel like doing something completely different, and want to experiment a little….

    I’ve got a truck load of 35mm TRI X in the fridge, but want to try something completely different and go 120. I’ll still use TRI x or HP5 though.

    Any other tips would be welcome!!

  • HERVE

    Our wise sister Lassal wrote:

    “You do not need to share everything with everybody I think. Especially not if it makes others uncomfortable. It is a kind of responsibility I feel towards them.”

    She says what I need to remember here at home. My dear Eddie doesn’t have to be my “everything;” that’s what friends and fellow photographers are for. No, he doesn’t really “get into” my photographic work, but then I don’t get into his medical theorizing work either. But we respect one another and allow the other freedom to pursue his/her passion. I think that’s good enough.

    Patricia

  • LASSAL :)))

    oh, yea dust and dirt and all the lovely things of life :)))…sleep deeply :)))

    ROSS :)))

    absolutely dont mind at all :))..tech talk is part of the joy (as long as it’s not the only talk ;)) of this game we do:

    To scan my negs (for from the our 35mm cameras and my the holga, lomo and diane cameras) we’re using Cannon 9950F (which when i bought it i think in late 2006/early 2007, cant remember, was the best flatbed i could by without spending a couple of thousand dollars)…we’ve also used Immacon at Burtynsky’s lab here in Toronto…

    If i had the money, i’d buy an Immacon, but that’s out of the budget, but might be the next family purchase (used one on Ebay) if in the next year or two i can get some kind of grant funding or luck out and publish some stuff (pics and writing)…I’ve seen lots and lots of film pics scanned using Immacon and printing digitally (on fibre too) and i couldnt really tell ANY DIFFERENCE…the technology is overwhelming…but as usual, if you have $$…

    all the new processes like Chromira (my favorite, which prints digital files on light-sensitive, fibre-based paper) are just spectacular…but Marina and I cannot afford that kind of high-end stuff…

    but, for my work, it doesn’t matter that much, ’cause my grain is so intense and the tonality range isn’t important for me: for me: all blacks and whites…precision/sharpness is of no interest to me at all, so my digital prints have looking pretty awesome…for our family exhibition last December, the gallery printed our stuff and they looked gorgeous (and some had no idea they were not from the darkroom)…i printed all my stuff from last year’s DAH assignment digitally for my exhibition last October: ditto, quality rocks…Velibor (who comes here from time to time) has 2 of the prints, he can attest ;))..

    I love toy cameras too, and shoot of course with a Holga and a Diana. I also shoot with a lomo and the quality for me is totally fine. The lovely thing about using both Holga and Diana of course is the unexpected (light leaks, iris, off frame composition, rough focus, cause they work like rangefinders and there is no “real” focusing, only guestimates)…

    I use trix120 with them (just as i use trix with my 35mm) and it works gorgeous…of course, with holga/diana/lomo, you don’t get quite the grain…the grain with my lomo is gorgeous, but with Holga/Diana pictures are flatter, muddier, and that’s part of the charm…

    for me the MOST IMPORTANT thing about Holga/Diana and then later when i was given my lomo as a gift (from a photographer from NY, who hated it), was that you’re free…you’re loose…you cannot OVERTHINK those cameras…cause there are not too many details:

    holga, 2 Fstops (8 & 11), 3 depth of field settings, 2 shutterspeeds (or rather 1 + B)…Diana has 4 fstops, 3 depth of field settings, 2 shutterspeeds…

    and so once you get use to it, your photography becomes much more intuitive and reactive…evertime i think i’ve “mastered” those cameras, they fuck me over ;)))…i shot a roll of color for the Bones project and it was a total disaster, so i had to go back to the drawing board..

    I havent tried Ilford with toys yet…and though i love Ilford alot too, have been reluctant to try it yet (dont know why) with the holga and diana stuff….

    i can just tell you that you’ll love it…just accept that you’ll loose control with exposures and get use to lots of gray (which is why i overprocess the films for them) and enjoy…

    anymore questions, just ask :))

    cheers
    bob

  • Bob;

    You’re a diamond!!! Thanks! I’ve been looking out for a flatbed for the same reason as you… It seems as though we have similar budgets too! There’s no way I can afford an Imacon either, especially for experimentation.

    I’ve never used a Holga, but am looking forward to it. I had thought of buying one of the Holga 35mm BC cameras, but the vignetting looked to “forced” and artificial.

    I’m sure a Holga will make a change from the D300!!!

    Thanks for the help….

  • Neon Bible by Arcade Fire !!

  • HELLO ALL…
    i’m opening a Duvel … right now….
    let me TAKE YOU BACK IN TIME FOR A MINUTE…
    relax , get a good BEER … and welcome into my
    imaginary mushroom world…

    MEDIEVAL TIMES…
    ILLUSIONS… GOING BACK IN TIME…
    sex, death, laughter, love, violence, passion,
    crime and punishment…
    please enjoy, my latest illusion…
    ladies and gents…

    Love and Death in Rainnesance Times
    click below… peace

    http://web.me.com/innerspacecowpanos/%22MOVIES%22/MEDIEVAL_TIMES.html

  • and for my friends in GREECE and CHINA …
    or my higher resolution friends…
    please click below…

    http://gallery.me.com/innerspacecowpanos#100122&view=mosaic&sel=0

    peace

  • ALL

    I would love to have feedback on my expanded edit of the Self Portraits/ Daily Life project. What works, what doesn’t. What speaks, what doesn’t. What’s strong, what’s weak. You know: the honest shit! Thanks.

    http://www.pbase.com/windchimewalker/daily_life

    Patricia

  • Ross : consider the epson 4990 i own one and for my purposes it’s perfect, affordable as well under $ 400 dollars. also multi-purpose ie. 35mm, medium formats, and large formats up to 8 x 10. just my two cents for whatever it’s worth. my friend at http://etreamiavec.blogspot.com also uses the 4990 exclusively as his scanner; good stuff..peace

  • Isn’t that just like my bro and I to post links to our work at the same time??? I’m on my way over to your world, Panos…

    Patricia

  • grizzly bear: SHIFT !!

  • Excellent work, Panos! Friends, be sure to watch this saga on the “big screen” if at all possible. That is

    http://gallery.me.com/innerspacecowpanos#100122&view=mosaic&sel=0

    You’ve really captured the life & energy of this story, and your b&w photos are brilliant. It’s like being there. Bravo!

    Patricia

  • I love you too Pat…
    You bringing tears in my eyes right now…
    I am missing my sister ( and my niece ) sooooo much
    right now…. ( in greece )….
    but thank god i have You !!! Pat,
    here at my other home… or should i say my “real” home…
    in california…
    but dont they say that “home is where your hat is” ???
    peace & love… time to check your link…
    and shake away that …
    MEDIEVAL DUST FROM MY SHOULDERS..
    peace

  • David,

    Although I have peeked in on your site several times, this is the first time I have posted a comment.

    I hold the point of view that there is never a perfect time to have children. There will always be reasons to wait a while longer. I feel that sometimes we think children need more than what they really do. What they need is our love, guidance, and understanding. They need to know that the times spent with them mean more to us than anything in the world and that when we are away, they are still the most important things in our world. As long as children are raised with a set of values, beliefs, and the knowledge that you are always there for them, even if it is over the phone, they will be ok.

    I didn’t wait to have children until I had developed the many aspects of my career. I had my daughter Alex, whom you had opportunity to meet and get to know in Santa Fe, during the second year of my career. My husband and I had Nicholas five years later at the beginning of phase two of my career. They are both well rounded, normal kids, who don’t feel neglected.

    Since I didn’t put off having children, now that they are 14 and 9 and more independent than when they were toddling around, I am able to start phase 3 of my career; which is not photography, and add in great experiences along the way, without feeling guilty.

    I don’t believe that everyone “needs to have children”, but for those that do have them, it helps define who we are and therefore helps shape not just our personal lives, but also our professional lives.

    Stephanie

  • Robert:
    Thanks, I’ll have a look.

  • Patricia,

    as per your question, I get feedback from my wife on my photos because she features so largely in my main project. I really dont ask any one else from my family what they think because none are professionals or really interested in photography as more than the literal taking of images, without an artistic purpose. The only people outside my family who I ask for an opinion are David and people here, and on flickr where I upload my photos. I do enjoy flickr for that reason and its why Im still there even if it seems unprofessional: its fun to get feedback from like minded people.

    As far as digital or film, it makes no difference to me. Digital allows me unhidered shooting. My wife always complained when I shot film…money reasons. Now theres no fuss. I shoot for free, edit. Digital allows me this. I wouldnt really go back to film anymore. Im used to digital. And I edit right away, but I keepy photos around for a while, as often images I didnt like at first appealed to me later. And if an image I liked suddenly doesnt appeal to me I get rid of it in subsequent edits.

  • Howdy everyone,
    I’ve been wrapped up here, finding a nice shooting rhythm, rolling with it as much as I can. I owe about a million comments to others who have projects going on here, and I’ll try to catch up. Usually by the time I get to see a series of work, the “writerly” folks here have eloquently commented, and there ends up not being much left to say. (I’ll try not to cop out though:))

    Anyway, I’ve created a “short program” as a continuation of my edit with David. The idea is to limit the edit to 20 to 30 of the stand-alone images, and to replace shots in this core group to strengthen the series and reduce redundancy. The audio is mixed with on-location sound recordings. Put your headphones on, and check this out if you like:

    http://www.humanfiles.com/slideshows/gsc_sp/publish_to_web/gsc_sp.htm

    I plan on making a “long program” as well, because I think different types of slideshows can serve different purposed—but in the interest minimizing, this has been a good exercise in cutting shots.

    David M

  • Panos,

    Excellent! Queen is great! You have style! I wish to see your prints!

    David, All,

    Now is time to care for my bills. I will try find a customer for big sculpture. In Poland it is almost imposible, but we’ll see. I have to prepare little dummy, etc. It will be nerves time, so I will be here but not as a writer probably. But like everyday I will read most of comments. So let see that 600 is possible!

    peace

  • david mc

    love the ethereal music and soundbites.. the photographs.. so much more in variety and more feelings i think.. love the isolation of objects.. empty mall car-parks.. still love the plastic cow.. i loves cows i do.. the boxing picture with the photo.. great positiuoning of photos in teh narrative.. ending with the long road in a huge wilderness with a very small sign.. in consequential sign.. with so much behind it.

    mate – it’s come on a long, long way since the last showing.. many congrats – well done.. loved it..

    patricia

    relationships.. 7 years in an ‘okay’ one with another photographer.. commercial.. i don’t think we saw eye to eye.. don’t think she understood the long-project road i was on and sould not understand why i worked such long hours for so little money. we started on the same life-curve, at collage, and gradually moved in different ways. it got to the point where we never really looked at each others work and it was not a nurturing relationship.
    it was a shame, although we were both glad to have ended i think.
    now.. perfect. beate loves seeing my work.. it’s encouraging me along with the edit.. her seeing my work with new eyes helps me see the work with new eyes.. b is so supportive it makes me want to leap higher still.. reach further in my on going dream than i have done before.. submerge myself into a project once again.. but first must get this old work online, edited, wrapped into a hard bound cover so that people can spend time with it (me) alone.. yes yes.

    all

    lots of talk about workshops and it’s been interesting.. interesting how much like working to a real-time deadline, for a real time client these workshops seem. high preasure and although the audience is only small it certainly has the intensity of showing to 10’s of 1000’s of magazine readers, or millions of newspaper ones.
    important to challenge ourselves before we show.. tough on ourselves.. be the best we can.. if we are falling behind, find out why and quickly.
    loving it.. looking forward to getting into a workshop now.. more than ever.. i hope to dig into new projects.. project.. soon and need the experiance i think.. certainly sounds worthwhile.

    bob.

    like teh photographer you introduced there.. and like the fact he was ‘invisible’ to the photography world for a long while.. so true.. no one made a career by hanging out on forums or in galleries.. got to get out and find teh subject.. connect with it.. find the bag you like and climb into it with your little camara.
    on film and digi.. yes.. digital is up there now. for me – i wanted to take the most crisp and well exposed photos i could.. in nightclubs.. i would not even use slide because of the narrow latitude.. wanted all the shades i could get. digital could not serve that to me for a long while.. in fact – if i had gone fully digital when i was ‘meant’ to, i would now be left with a couple of years worth of useless, unsaleable photos which would not fit contextually into my other work. flash and digi in pitch black a few years ago.. just could not do what i wanted it to. film scanned high quality sorted me right out.. (digital was not an option when i began shooting for magazines).

    it is true that the end result is the goal and also true that the latest ‘tech’ might not produce the result desired..
    now is different.. technology moved on.. still i shoot film .. for now.

    one thing i am curious about.. i use digital for commercial work.. have done for years.. i also taught myself to print in my mid teens in my parents loft..
    all ‘traditional’ photographers i know have used digital.. experimented.. can i ask – how many ‘digital’ users have tried traditional – and if not many, why not?
    it could be an undiscovered benefit to the editing / shooting process for some..
    i concede that it is not ‘necessary’ and digital is of course no less valid a method – everyone’s work is as valid as each others, despite what it’s shot with..
    so – this is not a loaded question.. just an out of interest one.. since dev n printing is cheap.

    btw bob – you colour print at all?
    would be cool to see you experiment with that, if you’ve not.. some excellent ‘mistakes’ can result..
    also – what you teaching?

  • LASSAL,

    Yes, yes, yes ;-) I’ll wait for that info (you can send it to me by mail). Thanks!!!!

  • Ross,

    Regarding scanners.. It all depends on how big your neg or positive is and how big you are going to print. The flatbed scanners have around 1600-2400 dpi of real resolution. Far from the 4800-6400 dpi they say. But with 1600-2400 dpi will give you a large file if you shoot med format. A thing that’s important is too keep the film perfectly flat, something that even my Coolscan can’t do all the time. So have a look at http://www.betterscanning.com for good film holders. If you are going to make huge prints or shoot 35mm I would go for drum scans, Imacon or a Coolscan 9000.
    At times I wish I had a flatbed instead of a 35mm scanner because it would give me the freedom to shoot med format, but on the other hand my agency would probably not accept the quality for 35mm..

    Cheers

  • STEPHANIE S….

    thanks for your comment…

    it was heartwarming, to say the least, to meet your family in Santa Fe..very often i do have in my workshops either husband/wife or parent/child “combos”….yours was just one of the sweetest i can remember with both your mother and daughter there shooting side by side..three generations of strong women….

    if anyone ever questions the perhaps “old fashioned” concept of classic “family values”, they do indeed need to meet your family….

    it was too bad that when i recently drove through Detroit to photograph Patricia and Ed that i did not have your contact information…i definitely thought about you, but i just had no way to get in touch..perhaps you could send me an e-mail so that on my next “drive by” i can stop and photograph your family in a serious way…

    all of our discussions in Santa Fe were just the best and i do hope we will meet again somewhere down the line….

    please give my warmest regards to your whole “crew”….

    cheers, david

  • David,

    Sorry we missed you.

    I sent my info to your aol account a while back. I will resend it later today.

    You’ll have to come back. I would love for you to meet my husband and son. Along with Alex, they complete my picture.

    Stephanie

  • DAVID McG

    I’ve just looked at/listened to/experienced deeply your short program three times. It is absolutely brilliant. Speaks so clearly the reality of what is going on here in Michigan during these tough-and-getting-tougher times. The voices overlaid with the music enhanced by the images hits me in the gut. I want to cry it is so right on target.

    There’s a marvelous flow to the whole of it. I especially related to how the image of one of Michigan’s many beautiful lakes morphed into the empty parking lot at the mall. Another favorite was the young woman trying on the wedding dress that morphed into the doll with a similar veil. There was so much going on on a subliminal level, like how you first brought in a child’s voice right as the photo of a child appeared. I did LOVE the talk about the skulls! Certain images touched me deeply. One was the painting of the boxer with the small snap of the old man holding his hand up to his face.

    My only concern was about the first image. I found it hard to read in relation to the theme. I think you need a stronger, more iconic image for the start, one with real punch.

    David, you are creating a most significant body of work here. I now can see it as a short documentary film presented in exactly this way, perhaps with some interviews of individuals interspersed throughout, and just a few pungent slides showing the statistics of Michigan’s economic crisis.

    I salute you for seeing this subject as worthy in the first place and just working your ass off all summer creating it. We’ll be saying we knew you when…

    Patricia

  • ALL

    seems you have had a very full week! I probably won’t catch up, but it’s okay..the river keeps running anyway.

    Just re-entering now, I had a refreshing week hiking in the mountains along the ocean, swimming in ponds and lakes, rocking in a hammock and seeing how other people live their lives. Damn! I forget how many ways there are to live..around me was such community and caring, a world separate from this New York one..I slipped in for a week beside those who paint, grow their own food, write poetry, nurture children and each other. It’s good to see the world as whole and loving and functional..

    I played with the 35 in color for the trip, as a six year old me would have, it was a delight..if anything is visually interesting, will post when I get the film back.

    A bit scattered and bleary eyed from hours in the car and sleep under many roofs, but am home and beautiful miss Kelly James is coming over to help me today, got to get back on the shooting horse, only 10 possible days left at most.

    peace to you all, wishing you a beautiful day..

    BOB

    years ago when I was doing printmaking with photos as a foundation (either mine or others, appropriated, found) I made a simple piece using Giacomelli’s priests in the snow..the piece was made around the same time I was reading Rilke, I need to see it again to recall what I was on about, but I do remember I placed the priests on a rim of a drinking glass, skating the rim..one was inside perhaps..if i ever find it, (it should be an edition of a few) I would love to gift it to you..just not sure where it may be..xo

    DAH

    hope you too are refreshed from the fresh air and camaraderie of family..keep wanting to say the 2 images with this post are beautiful to my eyes, I don’t see them as separate from the real work, very touching in the best sense..

  • BOB

    photographers who use digital cameras HAVE NOTHING TO APOLOGIZE FOR or nothing to regret.
    ————————-

    We don’t, Bob!

    The whole argument is basically a monologue, sometimes a rant, on the part of film die-harders.

    Yes, film is great, so are a lot of other things in life…. like digital P. ;-)

  • Hi David, Are you going to be in Tuscanny next year? If yes, I would like if possible to attend your workshop there, as we are moving to Zurich in September.

    And don’t forget that you invited me to attend the Magnum meeting in London next June (YEAH!!!)

    Arie

  • couldn’t resist: original imagine by john lennon

  • david b

    Thanks for looking—it is liberating to narrow a series down to it’s essence. I feel like I lucked out and stumbled on what should be an obvious concept, but often isn’t—that is, make sure your essay has something to say. I think I’m coming really close to that being a fact.

    Patricia

    That’s quite an endorsement! Thanks for that. A concern of mine is that I not over-dramatize the situation here—meaning, it’s not Darfur bad, or Myanmar bad, but it is bad in the sense that our comforts have been disrupted, and stories we can relate to often spin from those disruptions.

    People still smile here and good spirits can be found, and people with more cash than me are buying stuff at these sales :) But overall there’s a depletion of energy and a lack of bustling and excitement that can be found in better economies. And with home foreclosures, there are really grim situations for some.

    Anyway, Patricia, I’m sorry I missed you that weekend, but I didn’t make it all the way to Detroit. I had to go back and get the portrait of the woman holding the picture of her husband. She told me that eight weeks prior to her sale, her husband passed away. She had sold his scooter at her sale, and cried for six hours after the buyer left with it.

  • Martin;
    Thanks for the info. At the moment I’m only looking for a scanner to scan Holga negs, so as you can imagine don’t want to spend a fortune. If I was scanning 35mm I’d definately buy a Coolscan.

    I’ sort of looking for a balance between quality and affordability….

    Bob;

    What size can you prit your Holga negs?

    Thanks everyone.

  • David MaG,

    Wanted you to know I had viewed your work and also found it captivating. I was wondering about the lake scene. How you felt that played in with the story.

    Lee

  • DAVID McG,
    great work, keep it up…!
    peace

  • it’s not Darfur bad, or Myanmar bad
    ——————

    …Sure enough!

    Yet, David, I think there is a very important story happening in our “western” midst. It can certainly be told, or hinted at thru such essay as you undertook, others here too (like Panos).

    I think basically, is that we are failing ourselves as people of nations that came with great promises, that pointedly believed in making the world freer, ever-bettering, and that we had some control, some power in making this happening.

    Well, the dices have not quite stopped rolling, but there has to be some bittersweetness at our “scorecard” so far, as well as at the corner of our lips when we smile and laugh. Sorry, I can’t quite put the finger on it with the right words. after all, it is happening right now…

    Your essay on garage sales is superb in that instance. it has no real story, and of course, as happens often, is the story. No big emotions, no statement, but a lot of sentiments. Not A to Z, yet the journey is obvious.

  • ANA…

    As I am still amidst piles of unreviewed paper, I went to have a look online. And there it is! TPW is updating their website, and the NGO-Project is already on :)) :

    (overview workshops Kolkata)
    http://tpw.it/2008/kolkata_project_workshop/kolkata_project_workshop_set.htm

    (NGO workshop in Kolkata)
    http://tpw.it/2008/kolkata_project_workshop/kolkata_project_workshop_set.htm

    I am curious if anybody will be going there. It should not be a problem that the NGO’s needs are not necessarily YOUR needs. No one should worry about that because you could considder it as ADDITIONAL pictures you are making. I did something similar in Kenya, only that it was not a workshop but something I organized myself.

    On one hand side I did not have to pay workshop-fees but on the other hand side I had to deal with a lot of people who had very strange views on photography (and model) rights, which was very difficult, annoying and led to the point where I did not leave them any picture-files at all. I am still here to help them with images in case they need any, but they are not getting the files.

    If I had to do it again, I’d do it completely differently. So for everyone who does not want to worry about the legal stuff, the workshop might just be right.

  • ROSS,

    A Epson V700 will be fine, just use the 3.5mm setting for the film height adjusters. Getting some of those film holders will probably be a good idea too.
    I would want a flatbed too for med format, but my little apartment is occupied with printer, light table, 35mm scanner so I don’t want another machine.

    Cheers

  • Lee,
    The shot of the lake (river above a dam actually) is a body of water that would normally be full of marine traffic on a Saturday afternoon, but high fuel prices have buried the industry. The shot of the empty mall is an obvious compliment to that idea.

    Thanks for looking!

  • LASSAL! :)))0

    I LOVE THE IDEA AND THE PROJECT!! :)))…do you know the great French artist Sophie Calle?? She’s one of my favorite artists and she could serve as another inspiration…she loves too the interaction with strangers and the relationship that is subsequently established…

    love the duality of the pics and the postcards and the writing :)))..

    great for you, can wait to see it progress! :)))

    PANOS:

    WHERE THE HELL IS EL GRECKO, Sir Panos, the knight from Greece? ;)))…im looking now at the pics…more in a bit…

    MARIN B :))))

    ALL GREAT IDEAS :))))…for scanners…the key to a scanner is the photographers end-result goal…that’s the key: what size will she print, what does she want to hope the images to look like….Imacon (if i could afford one) would be right in my living room, but as y ou’ve said, there are other critical conditions (we have a flat bed cause we both use med format film too)…you’ve given Ross terrific advice :))

    hugs
    bob

  • DAVID MCG :))))

    LOVE THE NEW VERSION :)))…i particularly love some of the new pics…and I love that you have put the road/garagesale sign last!! :))))…love the mix of voice over (particularly the text you’ve chosen) with the image and the slight ambient feelings and that all the voices are “happy” or “positive” even when they’re talking about loss…it’s a very keen understanding, rather than a soundtrack the replicated the visual sadness :))

    great work…congrats!

    cheers
    bob

  • BOB,

    Thanks! I prefer smaller prints so a flatbed would probably do for me, but at the same time my agency want minimum 50-60mb files and people for some reason always seem to want large prints.. Ikea syndrom I guess!!?
    A flatbed would do fine 50-60mb files for med format, but not good enough for 35mm. This sucks and I just hate the prices on those Hasselblad scanners.. :(

    Cheers

  • ROSS:

    for 35 mm, we’ve printed (for exhibition and sales) 6×8, 8×10, 11×14 and 16×20…i’ve never had the money to go bigger than 16×20 (size i prefer) but occasionally have had the desire to print massive (though it’s disappearing)…for the med format (at least holga/diana stuff), only print small 8×10 (rather on 8×10 paper) because of my ideas associated with toy cameras…they should be small prints, always they should be small…and they seldom hold up large…but that’s a personal aestethic…i’ve seen folk print large holga and i think it’s pompous (than again, i often find super large prints pompous: more about ego (NY) than about scale, though some large photos make perfect sense, most do not, at least what’ ive seen, and i’ve seen way way too many exhibitions in my life ;)) )…

    so, i keep the holga’s small…size of the hand..like old polaroids :))

    ERICA :)))

    THAT WOULD BE BRILLIANT :)))…im happy someone else knows/loves Giacomelli…yea, the priest series is splendid (they often remind me of Tarkovsky’s Rublev, the early scenes in the snow))…i would love to see your re-creation indeed :))

    hugs

    running
    bob

  • BOB
    yeah, I have heard of the project where she follows strangers , documenting it.
    At least I think that was her. Do not know much more about her though…

    Glad you are not completely disappointed. I was worried.

    I have to check now… would love to do the portraits in med format… Probably will not go … not yet. Will be visiting my fellow workshopstudents now… Japan, Finnland, Spain, Holland …
    Maybe med format for the portraits after this project.

    MARTIN, BOB, ROBERT, ROSS …

    I am reading attentively to what you guys are saying about the scanner. Thank you so much for the information! I might need it sometimes soon if I go on in a certain direction …

  • PATRICIA :)))

    love very much the edit, including the new pic of you having fallen…the edit contains too some of my fav. pics from the series and is lovely…the only take-away i have is 19…it doesnt make sense to me at all in the context…a picture of you photographing??..but, conceptually, it illogical…because you are shooting you and you’re shooting both your life and at the same time “someone” is shooting you (us, we’re the photographers, the voyeurs, the readers in this essay) and strangely, that picture just seems odd, out of place…i know you’re shooting, but strangely it looks way way too “set up”…even though you shooting yourself (which is already a set up) with a timer, this one is too “artificial”…totally seems false, given the naturalness of the other photographs…does this make sense?…it isnt about you not having your camera in the pics, but something rings wrong about 19…im tired, i’ve been writing non-stop for 4 days (plus all my blog comments) so i dont have the precision today, but it just doesnt seem “real” like the others, and it doesnt contain the “insight” the “newness” the “see the world your world” sense…it’s just you photographing…make sense?…but surely others might disagree…

    other than that picture, the essay works beautifully and some of the pics are just flat out gorgeous :))

    hugs
    bob

  • HERVE:

    “photographers who use digital cameras HAVE NOTHING TO APOLOGIZE FOR or nothing to regret…”–BOB

    “We don’t, Bob!”–HERVE

    UNFORTUNATELY (oops, sorry about the caps, didnt mean them), many many many photographers do apologize or express their thoughts that digital work or their work is inferior…believe me, i’ve heard it a 1,000,000 times over…and, actually, mostly from Digi folk. There are some stupid Film snobs who say film is better, but generally, most of the people who’ve said that digital is less or not as “timeless” (both at LS and at galleries and among young photographers)…so, i was trying to cheer up Lassal: expressing that she has done nothing wrong by beginning/going digital :))

    You dont apologize and that’s the attitude that other digital shooters should have…funny thing, my son things im a geezer cause i shoot film ;)))…but i love digital too…so i wasnt condemning, far from it…i’ll be happy when the entire world of photographers doesnt care either, only about interesting or not interesting/challenging/humane work :))

    cheers
    bob

    PANOS :)))

    love the 1st Queen! :)))…and the beast too and the hi-key version of one of the jousting :)))…i still want to see Sir Panos in drag! :))

    hugs
    bob

  • DAVID McG

    wow … you worked hard on this since the last time I’ve seen it. And I really, really enjoy it! Nice mixture of close-ups and totals, nice rythm with the signs … I am having a little bit difficulty to understand the text but that’s probably not the text’s fault :)

    I thought you were telling small stories but that one woman with the (wedding?)dress does appear more often. Guess I have to look at it again.

    Lot’s of pictures… but then again … it does not seem to get boring … and it fit’s to the concept very well, I think… They could come in different sizes, when you make prints. But you probably already thought of that :))

    What are you planning for the next part? Your own garage sale????? :)))) You are making me very curious…

    Best,
    Lassal

  • LASSAL:

    yes, that’s Sophie’s early work and she continues to do this with variations…she’s a great photographer, a great concpetualist (an interesting writer) and you should read/take a look at her work :))…and please, stop worrying about what others think!…It’s terrific stuff and i think a brilliant brilliant idea, and ABOVE ALL ORIGINAL…especially for a workshop1 :)))…

    Herve wrote something this weekend that was great (i cant remember which day and I dont have time to backtrack) but he said he only gets the comments or feedback from a few people, or 1 or 2 close friends whose opinions he respects/values…i think those are pretty damn important words. The world should not be pleased because, as buddhist dharma reminds, one day you are loved the next loathed…so, work toward feeling the ideas for yourself and share with those with whom you can communicate (or as in Sidney’s great case FIGHT! ;)) )…but dont worry about disappointing me, for god’s sake…or David for that matter :))…

    Herve, maybe you can chime in cause i dont want to misquote, but whatever you wrote was spot on…

    ok y’all i have to go for the night…

    hugs
    b

  • David

    I just picked up “Cuba” from my local library, and happened to meet a guest sculptor from India, teaching in my little hometown. He recognized your work and name immediately, and asked me to mention his family name, Vishwakarma. Of course that could be like Smith in Calcutta, but I thought I’d toss it your way anyway. His first name is Abhay.

  • yeah BOB, I needed some cheerups for digital…
    you see … I know PS pretty well from years and years of usage and it really does not surprise me anymore. Not, unless I surprise myself, which happens…

    What I was longing for is the alchemistry in the darkroom, where all these crazy accidents can happen. You really can play God there!

    That is nr.1.
    Nr2 is the fact that the little digicam I used in Tuscany does give me pictures of questionable quality and not in a very large file either. So … when you look at David’s Portrait, or at the portrait I did from some other guys (not all is online), I would love to be able to make a big(er) print. Not huuuuge, but maybe a A3? I fear this will not work. I guess I can make a A4 out of some under the condition that they are desaturated enough so that the noise does not get in the way…

    That is what makes me sad about MY digital images… Some of them just deserve a better quality. Then again I have the D200 for that. But … I am more of a silent fotografer, so I rather have a small and silent camera.
    In Tuscany I was talking to David about the M8 but he said I should wait for the next generation. All the better because I could not afford it at the moment anyway… :)

    These are my two issues with digital. Not the digital per se. I’m so sorry for being so difficult to understand… And I thank BOB for indeed cheering me up a lot. In general I also agree with small prints.. just sometimes… sometimes an image wants to go big. And it is a domage if one cannot fulfill it’s wish because of a stupid file size…

  • Bob;
    Thank you again!! I was looking to print around A4-ish for the Holga so that sounds good…

    Will be ordering the Holga (bare bones model) next week!!!

  • BOB …
    David is after me because he thinks I will be dropping the project. And he is not so wrong.
    Because the realization of the concept required an adjustment that I did not like. So I was about to take my alternative project for the workshop and kill this one.

    Actually David is happy but I am not (completely). I got used to it and find it now a little too simple and “nice” – but then again I often have the problem that I get so complex that no one wants to follow me any more. Obviously one oneself is in a quite intense contact with one’s own work and it can get boring easily. That is, and David saw that right away and pointed it out easily, the time where a lot of my projects are in danger: either I drop them or transform them into monsters! :)

    David opened my eyes. Again. I am just noticing it now.

    It will be quite difficult for me now to spend months finishing this project. In my head it is already DONE. So in a way now comes the boring part. Obviously it will not be boring because of the the fact that I will be visiting wonderful people and having to convince some more strangers that I am not completely nuts, but … In my mind the thing is finished and I should now go on. That is why I will have to hurry up.

    But now that I realize where my issues with my projects are, I can deal with it easier, I hope. And if YOU, BOB, say, that the project is all right, than I am happy because I think that you are very critical as to concepts.

    Nevertheless … the nice “Edge” you were talking about … this edge is very undeveloped here. That annoyes me a little.

    You know what is crazy?! DAH and I have not even spoken really while in Tuscany. Nevertheless he seems to know exactly what is going on in my mind! He told me I was my own worst enemy and about to drop this lovely project even before I myself was aware of it. And it was definitively not a question of selffulfilling profecy …

  • herve

    That was well said. Maybe I’ll get to shoot the story of our recovery eventually. For now we’ll have to ride out the short end of our world economy.

    You’re right though—the dice have not stopped rolling.

  • Well, Bob, I will chime in. I did not really mean their judgement has much value necessarily, but their interest for what I do, just that, does have has much value to me.

    This is far from the “one mentor” idea that david often mentions. That person who believes in and pushes you, moreover from a position of authority in the medium (established photographer, gallery owner, newspaper critic, etc…). As a coach does in boxing.

    I think few here have such person in their lives at this point.

    So, mine was a general comment, not just about photography. One shares one’s passions with very, very few people. It’s like love, 1, maybe 2 involved (love triangle, often too much already!), but no one has ever spoken of a love square….

    This is also what makes it so precious.

  • Lassal

    There are individual stories, but the more I’ve worked on this, the more it feels like they strengthen as a mix, and the real story is the collective look, feel, and emotions of the subjects.

    It’s not really important that you understand the text (though some parts are charming) but it really serves as a backdrop that’s not so literal but conveys the typical atmosphere of a sale.

    My timeline is really like this—continue shooting through the month of September, and see if I can make images that are stronger than what I have—shots that contribute well to the series and replace some of the weaker ones. I do have the core group of what I like, but I want to take a fresh eye to everything I shot, and see if I missed anything. After, of course, I’ve resolved that I’m done shooting.

    My first priority is to edit for book purposes. It’s to my advantage that I have a background in page layout, so I’ll put Blurb book together, and use that to shop around for publishers. I sound like I know what I’m doing, but I don’t!!! I just know how I want things to look, so I’ll have to work with a like-minded publisher and make things happen.

    Then I’ll start working on the printed show, which I hope to be garage sale chic! I’ll have large versions of my core group (like from the short program slideshow) but I’ll also have a display of small prints of many of the interesting sale items that I’ve shot. I’ve been collecting small, cheap frames from the sales for that purpose.

    I’d like the show to be in a rural setting, like in an unused cinderblock mechanic’s shop. I think that will be easy to find. It should turn into a fun party.

    The printed show won’t happen unless I settle down this fall/winter and find some gainful employment, with the irony not being lost on me—so far that hasn’t been very easy here. Maybe I should have a garage sale for myself!

    After that, I’ll go to the hopper, and find the next project.

  • Ok, it’s time for May and Walch to go down in volleyball. Go Brazil!!

  • LASSAL…
    dont worry about owning an M8…
    LEICA promised that any M8 body will be
    eligible for eternal upgrades… for example..
    you can install a 20MP chip soon…
    but the most important thing about M8,
    is the LENSES… and the lack of IR filter
    that means… “real” black and white…
    and “infrared” options… and dont forget the size,,,,…
    nobody will ever think you are a photographer which
    is a GREAT…thing…you have almost unlimited access…
    nobody cares… which is a blessing….!
    try to photograph kids with a D3 and then try an M8….
    you will see what i mean…:))))))))

  • I’m behind again…but for reasons relative to some of this discussion. The full time job is busy (law), both kids started jobs (which means I am their “taxi driver” back and forth, back and forth, different schedules), one starts school this week, the other slowly starts to realize what it’s like to NOT be in school for the first time in memory…too busy, no free time to shoot anything, missed my church project this weekend, will be out of town next weekend. Frustrated, but busy with life, so…where’s the balance? I don’t know.

    Patricia,

    A quick word to relay how much I loved that shot from the floor. My mother was in a wheelchair for many years (as was my dad long ago). The fear of hitting that floor, man. Once when she slipped while transferring, I just sat on the floor by her to see what it looked like. Rather frightening really. I don’t even like being lower than SUV’s while driving! Keep it up, you are doing some powerful work.

    Lassal and Lee,

    Thanks for sharing the workshop impressions. Insightful to read, I can’t imagine how powerful it was to have the experience. Some day…back to overflowing life for now…

    Joan

  • ALL

    Thanks to all who took the time to answer the questions I posed about how the people in your life respond to your commitment to photography. Most interesting and varied experiences.

    Bob, I so appreciate your feedback on my expanded edit of the self portraits/daily life project. I’ll be removing the SP of me photographing. What you say rings true.

    Joan, thanks so much for checking it out and offering your feedback as well. Most helpful.

    And now, my friends, it’s time for me to take a blog break for awhile. These last weeks of summer are too precious to spend in front of my computer! I can be reached by email at croneart@comcast.net. See you in a few weeks…

    Patricia

  • Patricia… BULLSHIT…
    :)))))))…
    you are NOT allowed to go anywhere ( but go wherever you want, sister ;)))))) )….
    just please… PLLLAEEESE… take a laptop with you…
    just, ;), to us once in a while…
    peace

  • David McG,

    Just wanted to pass on my congrats for your wonderful essay! I have to tell you that I was initially a bit skeptical about the topic you had chosen but it is great to see it come together. There is a real atmosphere, some kind of “melancolie” (maybe Erica or Bob can translate the word in English…). It is also interesting to see for me how you have been able to create a mood. You have some strong single images but the strength of your essay in my view comes more from the overall sequence, the great sound that cmplements the story, the music…

    Again, nice work David….Only point maybe as Patricia also suggested is the first picture which for me which could be stronger or give a better sense of your overall essay.

    In any case, well done!

    Eric

  • LASSAL,

    You seem to be a very creative person and your TPW essay certainly shows it…It is interesting to see so many of you having radically different styles and ideas. It is cerainly an interesting concept that you should follow through… I am really lost myseff for even coming up with this sort of ideas… By the way, have you seen the book of Jonas Bendiksen, “the places we live”…Totally different but also a very interesting innovative book…you open the pages and you sort of enter into these tiny homes photographed from all four sides…. Real creative book and great photographs….

    Cheers,

    Eric

  • Bob,
    cant wait to see the motherfucking “bones”….
    Eric… GREAT WORK… ( sorry.. just catching up )…

  • Eric

    Thanks—I feel pretty good about where I am with this. I have gotten that comment on the first image a few times, but I’m not too worried about it quite yet. Not that I’m dismissing the comments, but I know this program is going to evolve around this music, and I’ll be swapping images in different places and tweaking the voice recordings, etc. But overall, the feel will remain the same.

    That shot has a place, but many just not the first place.

    Bob

    Thanks again for your kind words. I haven’t forgotten that I owe your essay a read, but I haven’t had the cash for whiskey to put me in the right state of mind :)) I’ll get on that soon though!

  • Reading comments on Patricia’s floor shot, gee, you guys are reminding me of that cult movie with O. De Haviland and James Caan, LADY IN A CAGE…..

  • I just spent a fantastic day with two wonderful women of New York. My afternoon was blessed with helping Erica in the “studio” on her corner in Park Slope. What a rich neighborhood when you stop for a minute and really watch it go by. It only takes walking two blocks with her to see that Erica really has a connection with the people there… and to see that there isn’t a shy bone in her body! From a 75-year-old half blind cowboy to a latino schwinn biker crew… she’s WILL have them sit for a portrait… and they all leave happier for the experience. (Side note: I’m also giddy with excitement about learning to load the 4×5.)

    THEN, I spent my evening with the lovely Carmen Elsa Lopez and her Brazilian roommates eating Moroccan food and talking about the places we’ve been and the countries we’d like to visit. I love New York.

  • Mario Giacomelli was a weekends’ photographer.
    Really, he kept his typographer work for all his life and shot only during weekends. Never worked on an assignment but only pursued his own personal projects.
    Now, back to DAH’s original question about being a parent and a photographer -if you have a regular job 5 days a week and are a photographer for the rest of your time you possibly dont have much time for raising children-.

    So the question for you all is:
    How many children had Giacomelli?
    a) none
    b) three
    c) six

    pick your choice…
    the first posting the right answer here will win
    a wonderful Panos Skoulida’s signed print from his Venice essay!

  • DAVID,

    It is quite funny that you mention your friends who turned 30 and figured out that they’ve wasted a lot of time, at least for me as it brings me to some self torture that I am running through…

    I’ve discovered photography a few years ago and it quickly became an obsession, I am now in my mid thirties and every day I tell myself,”you spent so much time partying, over-partying, doing nothing special” and I see young guys(20 yrs old) that I know publishing a lot of stuff, having a lot of fun shooting, it makes me mad that I’ve wasted so much time in my 20’s… You say that age is not such a matter, on the other end doors are simply closed for getting “art funds” or enter contests here in Switzerland when you are over 30, I don’t even tell you that you cannot apply if you are not out of schools A,B or C and have an artistic degree. And starting a new school after 30 is not really something that I want either,I have waisted enough time in engineering schools till now…

    In order to finish, this is something that I like about your blog, everyone has a chance, not matter of sex, age, race, background…

    About kids, I don’t think that it is a big problem together with a career, however you need to be a good at planning…

  • PANOS

    I see you are happy with your M8…. :) That is great!!
    Which lenses are you using?

    Thank you for writing and encouraging. Yesss, I am looking forward to get me one for the reasons you mentioned: not being recognized as someone who is making serious photography. I will hide the “Leica”-Logo too ;)

    I tried both ways now. In Kenya I had my little point&shoot so no one was taking any attention to me, which was just perfect!!!! (just the quality of the images were not good enough)
    And I did a month of “assignments” for an architect, where I tried out the D200. It is too big&heavy for me, and I do not feel comfortable being exposed as a photographer that way. I mentioned it before. I cannot take pictures “my way” with it. Even though, I must admit, I enjoyed playing around with the D700 in Tuscany… So I will keep the D200 and all the lenses I have bought for it for now.

    But apart from the S10 point&shoot which for some situations is still the camera I would prefer – because of the revolving monitor which allows me to take pictures from crazy angles, what I love – I will probably be investing my money longterm in a M8+lenses. Crazy prices, though, I almost fell out of my shoes when I heard them.

    I’d love eventually to get a mid format camera for portraits … I just simply love doing portraits … Probably an old and used one. Something where I can look into from the top … How do you call it in English? You say a “Lichtschacht” in German …
    Film. Digibacks are way over the top, I think. I will have to scan it in then to get my digi file.

    ERIC

    “You seem to be a very creative person and your TPW essay certainly shows it..”
    Thank you so much for this sentence!!!
    Yes, there were very different approaches, especially because we had some professionals there too, who unconsciously knew what they were after (most of the times something they had had before and lost along the professional-assignments-path…)
    I have seen some work of Jonas Bendiksan, but not the book you mentioned. I will check it out! Thanks for telling me!! I really love this kind of photography :)))

    ALL… (Perpignan)

    we just got a little appartment in (!) Perpignon, where we can stay with my dog for a whole week! Very cheap too.
    If anybody is still looking for a place to stay, you might want to check http://www.homelidays.com or http://www.abritel.fr for small appartments, or B&B places.

    Hope to see a lot of you there!

    Ok. Signing off for the rest of the day. Lots of work to do …
    Cheers,
    Lassal

  • GUIDO! :))))

    that’s exactly the point i tried to make at the beginning of the thread ;)))…Giacomelli left behind 3 children and a wife! :)))…and turned out to be one of the 20th Century’s greatest photographer…and he was boor poor (dropped out of school at 16), self-taught photographer, self-taugh topographer…spent his entire life in his home-town area…although he did join a PHotographic Agency (2 actually, but the names escape me)…much of the stuff that gets pronounced among photographers just seems like so much silly stuff…in the end, it’s only about a small thing: how to negotiate the ways and days of one’s life…one, i guess, asks themselves: what is it they want to be…i’ve never made any connection between “career” and “life”, and especially not with photography…

    long after this blog disappears, photography will still twirl it’s maddening fingers in my considerably less-full hair…

    one sometimes wonders is it the attention or recongnition most folk are after or the work, the satisfactionof making work that, for good or ill, you feel is the swollen music of your life….

    my own family, wife and son, has done nothing but enhance enlargen fuck in the most substantial and magnificent way my life and by extension the infinitely less important think, the photogarphy and the writing…

    I guess i win a Panos’ print …:)))

    cheers
    bob

  • MOrnin’ ALL

    KELLY

    It was such a pleasure to see you again and my honor to have your able aid…thank you, thank you..I think (hope!) we managed a good shot or two..xo

    ERIC

    that’s the right word in english too, but spelled ‘melancholy”

    LASSAL

    I too love the feel of your postcard essay, and wish too see it evolve through other travels. I can’t imagine that you are disturbing anyone at all by asking for their collaboration, I bet they are thrilled. How did you get the color tones that you did in the portraits? At first I thought you had shot b&w and colored them..

  • ALL

    Knowing what I am working on, a neighbor :) just sent me the link to this neighborhood photo project..very good, meaningful..

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93515006&sc=emaf

    http://www.helloneighborproject.org/hn.php

  • “Mario Giacomelli was a weekends’ photographer.
    Really, he kept his typographer work for all his life and shot only during weekends. Never worked on an assignment but only pursued his own personal projects.”

    Guido,

    Love learning that!

    Lassal,

    Your dog is with you? Perfect. Have a great time.

    Joan

  • Guido: 3 children!! :)

    Arie

  • GUIDOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!
    wat up !!!!! nice to hear from you…
    good light to ALL today..
    let me get a coffee!!

  • LASSAL…
    check the prices of CARL ZEISS M lenses…
    one third of the price…. and here is my BIG SECRET…
    VOIGHTLANDER M lenses…

    a 35mm NOKTON F 1.2 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    for only $800… from B&H…
    or a 40mm NOKTON F 1.4 for $400…
    so if you dont want a $5.000 leica lens… go for voightlanders…
    all prime… no zooms…
    even the leica “elmarits” are a relatively cheap choice..

    my favorite is that 35mm F1.2 ( my xxx photos were all shot
    in pitch dark.. all the way open to F1.2….

    the MEDIEVAL theme on all shot with only one lens.. the 40mm..

    i always take only ONE lens with me… if its night F1.2,
    if its day the 28mm F2.8 from CARL ZEISS…
    sweet colors…
    and if i care for color accuracy ( which i usually dont ) then i go
    with the 50mm F2.8 from Leica…

    but one lens is enough… MORE THAN ENOUGH…
    peace
    email me ( innerspacecowpanos@mac.com ) and i will link you…

  • PANOS,
    I shoot the 35/1.2 with film, but haven’t processed anything yet, because I just got it.

    Anyone interested in a Voigtlander Classic Heliar 50/2 (250 year anniversary lens) let me know. I prefer shipping within EU only..

    Cheers

  • Maybe DAH should add a “sale” section on his blog :)))

    Arie

  • MARTIN,
    I’m with you..
    The 1.2 is a great lens..
    Warm almost zeiss like colors..
    You will be happy with the results..
    And push this lens to it’s limits..
    where magic begins.. It’s similar to
    F1.0 NOCTULUX ( that Allard uses),
    but $9.000 CHEAPER!!!!

  • PANOS,
    Yeah, the Nocti is a very specific lens and very hard to focus at 50mm f/1.0. A 35mm lens has slightly longer DOF and easier to handhold at longer shutter speeds so I’m glad with my decision. If I still had the M8 it would probably be my stanard lens on that one..

    Cheers

  • the message…

  • YEAH!!!

    Arie

    PS: it is a slow day in teh office today :)

  • While this has turned to gear talk, does anyone have experience with the Ricoh GR Digital II? It looks like a fun little point and shoot. Fixed focus 28mm equivalent, F2.4, shoots raw, and you have the option to shoot in a square format. I have a feeling it can do a lot of the things I like, but is much smaller than my D200.

  • Panos,

    You should really check out the Zeiss 18mm for the M8. It makes a great 24mm (need to use a viewfinder) for about a grand. I think you could stand to go wider with some of your shots – might allow you to get even a bit looser. The 18 is only f4 but you can shoot and not really worry so much about focusing.

    The 24mm has always been my favorite focal length – allows one to get in close yet still include some of the enviroment and isn’t too wide angle distorted.

    Love the discussion on Giacomelli. I totally forgot about him. His monks in snow series was an early influence on me.

    As far as Imacons go keep an eye out for refurb units. I got my 646 as a refurb and it was about $3K less. It’s paid for itself over and over again. You can use the old Precisions too and they are on ebay pretty often, but you will have to dedicate a G4 to it because they are SCSI. Anyway, they are great scanners and allow one to still shoot film and deliver files, make digital prints etc. A big chunk up front, but will save you lots of time and $ in the long run.

  • not being recognized as someone who is making serious photography.
    —————————-

    LASSAL?!?!? I am perplexed reading this.

    I’d love to own a M8 and lenses, but 7 to 8000$ not to look like a serious photographer? This is….Rich! :-)))

    I doubt the equipment takes care that much of the many neurosis, hang-ups, minute hesitations and etc… that come into play, when one inter-acts out there with the world. I think it goes a bit deeper at who we really are, and how we feel about people and strangers, and the world, basically.

    I am not saying that you should not buy a M8, just that we, our selves, and how we behave and apply discipline, are the most important equipment in taking photos. that’s always where the improvements that matter the most come.

    IMO.

  • HERVE

    indeed..my 4×5 camera is proving to be mostly a royal, costly pain in the butt with regard to me getting the images I want for this project. the camera itself is amazing, but despite this, it is low on the ‘equipment’ list with regard to getting the job done..

    that said, i missed the context in which Lassal wrote the quoted comment, so this isn’t a reference specifically to that..

  • Charles,
    You are totally right about the 18mm zeiss..
    I did the mistake to buy a SKOPAR 21mm
    for less than $400 from voight… Great price,
    but it ain’t ZEISS!!! I never used it ONCE..
    for almost half a year now.. Maybe I should give
    It a try..
    Peace

  • Oh pleeeezzzeee, Hervé, you are playing with me. :))))
    I am sure, so sure you know what i wanted to say with the sentence you quoted… :)))

    First comes the person behind the camera! Yup! No discussion about that. Plenty of fantastic pictures in Museums which were done with not more than “flowerpots”. Plenty of rubbish being shot with some of the most phantastic technical material around – everyday and everywhere.

    But will you blame me for wanting an M8 because I think it fits my way of taking pictures?! I do not think so. :)) So you must be playing with my poor english that causes one missunderstanding after the other. Hervé, Hervé, Hervé… that is not nice … :))

    One of my fellow workshopstudents hat a M8 with him on the workshop and I played around with it and just loved the feeling. Regardless of Name and everything else it just felt right in my hand. The only thing I did not like was the extremely loud shutternoise… But someone said one could get a less noisy variant.

    I am now using a little S10 and happy with the monitor but not with the quality. I have a D200 that I am hardly using because it does not feel right. I am almost furious I bought it (I had an assignment that could not be done with the S10 and wanted to invest into something I thought I could live with for a long time). It was quite expensive too, including all the lenses I needed to get. So obviously the next step, if at all, would be to get me a camera that fits my purposes and feels right. If it is a M8 than it is a M8 if it is a XYZ, then so be it. I am currently trying it out, and looking around. I do not care if it is Leica or not. But I care to have the right camera in my hand to work properly and feel well with it. Otherwise it will be money thrown away. Even if the camera is cheap, I would not want to buy it if it is thrown away money. Of course I am not happy about feeling so well with an expensive Leica. I’d wish it would be different. I’d wish I could just stay with my little point&shoot (I will in fact – but not for everything).

    So actually the whole thing went the other way around: It was not that I wanted to get a Leica because I fancy the name and to have something that expensive. Quite opposite. I wish it were not the case. But what can I do if the camera just feels right? Shall I look away because it is a Leica? Does it, to put it the other way around, diminish me as a photographer because it is expensive gear?

    No. We were talking about not being ashamed of film/digital etc.etc.etc. So let’s not be ashamed (I am using this word on purpose ;))) of the gear either.
    It has to feeeeeeel good. Nobody will deny that you probably will be better off as a photographer if you use material you feel comfortable with. So that is my whole point.

    I do hope I did not get anybody wrong here – If so I apologize deeply – but I was afraid this would again get into a very wrong direction.

    Uff. It is said. :)))

    Love, Hervé! Please… :)))

  • LASSAL,
    One more thing about the M8..
    It shoots DNG raw files..
    ADOBE OPEN FILES TO ALL
    SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS..
    That means that if Nikon goes out of business
    in ten years.. ( which I hope it won’t)..
    ALL OF YOUR NEF FILES WILL BE OBSOLETE.
    Same with canon raw also..
    But Leica doesn’t try to “trap” you software-wise..
    Even if Leica goes out of business your DNG
    files will be open to all developers.. No specific
    bullshit extra software required..
    Before I was wasting Sooo much time converting
    All my files to DNG or TIF..
    Not anymore..
    Plus the most important:
    Leica lacks a mirror .. No mirror slap,
    Less camera shake, shoot in a quarter of a sec..
    No tripod.. And don’t forget.. The lens sits closer to the
    Chip!!!!!!
    But what I care about the most is that
    It’s UPGRADEABLE..!!!!’
    It’s like an apple computer..
    Alive.. Constantly upgrades..firmware
    Updates..customization.. You name it..
    Beautiful glass.. Stealthy camera..
    When eventually will upgrade the chip..
    Then you will see that Leica is cheaper in the
    LONG RUN..
    Peace
    There is no

  • Victoria Le Grand as Beach House..

  • and again..
    A camera does not shoot itself..
    It needs a photographer behind it..
    Nobody can convince me that
    HOLGA is behind BOB’s pictures..
    No.
    It’s BOB behind that HOLGA..
    Peace

  • Panos
    I too went back in time last weekend…for just an hour or so….entranced by the rhythmic dancing of a troupe of gypsies…sadly they had no deeper story to tell to me that day beyond the seductive fluttering of their silks…but I did my best to capture some of their essence…

    http://home.insightbb.com/andrew.brinkhorst/gypsies

    Lassal
    I have been meaning to thank you for your excellent description of the workshop…I am much encouraged that all of the attendees were not accomplished photogs, since I am on the beginner side of things…perhaps sometime I will feel ready to take on the challenge of a workshop…but much work to do first…

    Also, love love love your idea for your project and the initial images….and understand completely what you mean about making things too complicated, I do that all the time….a very hard thing to not do, when it is in our nature!

    A quick equipment note, since I don’t feel right discussing equipment in any detail here…and as I’m sure we all would agree, it is the photographer not the equipment that makes photographs…but I am going to look very closely at the soon to be released panasonic LX3…full manual controls, shoots RAW, and has a f/2.0-2.8 24-60mm (35mm equivalent) Leica DC Vario-Summicron lens…and you can put a rangefinder on it, so you aren’t tied to the LCD display…I can’t afford an M8, but this looks like something very worthwhile to carry in a pocket all the time…

    Nick Yoon
    I have revisted your site several times, there are many images there that continue to draw me back for another look….I, like you, have rediscovered the joy in photography, and I hope I progress from “vacation snaps” as well as you have…

    Erica
    Your little book has been inspirational and has me wanting to see your prints in full size…perhaps that will become a quest for me sometime soon. Thank you for the encouraging words and support…

    Patricia (techno-grandma!)
    The essence of your spirit and will came through very strong in the image of your fall, and the accompanying words…it moved me deeply. And all of the images and words related to your meeting and experiences with DAH and MEM are so very helpful…

    Hmmm…more to say but this has become long enough…I suppose I can’t wait this long to comment, or I’ll ramble badly… so I’ll hush for now and leave you all in peace and with wishes for good light.

    A.

  • hi panos,

    how are you doin’?
    always been here, silently reading …don’t have much time
    to write, so i do it from time to time only, when i really think i have something to say (maybe not everyone agrees…btw you know you owe bob black a signed print? :)))

    all this opinions exchange about the equipment gives me the excuse to talk more about Giacomelli.
    I’m translating here from an interview i just read, i couldnt find it in english so please accept in advance my apologies for the bad english

    Q: and what about the camera? you dont have a camera like everybody else…a kodak, Nikon or a Leica?

    MG: I dont know what everybody has. I have this camera I had it made for me, it’s a camera crumbling into pieces… all wrapped up with tape…I’m not fond of such things. I’ve had this one since i started, always the same. With “her” I’ve lived good things and bad things, we’ve shared moments of our life together…couldnt go without her…only the idea of separating makes me sad.

    Q: Ok, but..how did you get this camera?

    MG: I had it appositely made. I dismounted another camera belonging to a friend, threw all the useless parts into the trashcan.
    The distance is what really matters…what else? I dont know how these things work, it’s a box and nothing else.

    Q: What film do you put in?

    MG: Whatever i find.

    Q: a 35 mm?

    MG: dont ask about millimeters.. .The big ones not the small ones..Not the small format. Never used it..

    Q: 120?

    MG: dont ask me about the numbers! I only know this 6×9 is actually reduced to 6×8.5

    A: You mean you have twelve pictures from a roll?

    MG: I dont remember… I think 10, not twelve, ten images…

    Of course that doesnt mean that all those having poor equipment
    make better photos! And the other way around as well. As David has often remarked everyone has to find his/her own voice, equipment etc. Certainly you dont become Jimi hendrix by buying the most exensive guitar on the market!
    In another part of the interview Giacomelli rememebers when he forgot the camera in a field an found it later where he had left it.
    Nobody wanted it.
    Try to leave an M8 for morre than a minute unattended!

  • .. And speaking about money,
    because most of us are struggling ….
    A Leica is a collectible item, an investment.
    You can sell it I’m twenty years almost half price..
    The lenses barely loses any value..
    Now…. try to sell your older D1 or D100..
    Or a canon 10D today..
    People will laugh.. Leica is cheaper , but in the
    Long Run…
    Ok.. Enough!!

    Andrew I’m in the car.. I can’t open your link.
    No flash in my phone.. I will later..
    Peace

  • GUIDO.. hey!:)))
    I owe Bob more, way more than a print..

    I’m sure Charles ( that personally knew CURT COBAIN),
    will agree that Curt was buying
    Guitars from PAWNSHOPS,
    Because he couldn’t afford to buy a new one…

  • and of course let’s not forget
    PAOLO PELLEGRIN,
    That shot most of his work in a little
    $500 point and shoot OLYMPUS..
    Not even an slr..!!!
    Just an evf with live view and teribble
    lag times.. Go figure..

  • PANOS

    why are you so oft in a car?

  • ERICA…
    I spent 3 days in the desert,
    2 days in big bear mountain
    & 2 days in Venice …
    That’s my typical week..
    Now the distance between
    My home in the desert to the mountain
    Is 99 miles.. And another 110 miled
    to go to venice..
    Living in LA IS ALL ABOUT DRIVING..
    but I’m making it even worst..
    But thank god all that will change soon..
    I eventually found a buyer for my home
    ( yes, no forclosure for me!!!)..
    So I’ll be done with the desert in about two
    months…
    My grandmother before she died she left me
    Her house in GREECE on my name.
    So I’m thinking to go to Greece after
    XMAS, fix that house and throw a HUGE PARTY
    IN HONOR OF DAH
    AND THIS BLOG. So everybody… Get ready..
    We are going to party in Greece soon..
    Peace..
    But, Erica, until then I have to keep on driving!!!

  • PANOS (cap-yelling intentional)….

    a house….in greece…..sounds like the perfect place for a DAH bloggers workshop/get-together!

    that would be SWEET!

  • forgot to add….I am 1/2 greek…my great-grandparents on my mother’s side came to the US from Greece….and I have never been there!

    one of the places I want badly to see….

  • Panos, you are probably right, but I thought it was (also maybe) Majoli who shot with 2 “5005” Olympuses.

    Lassal, I do understand the arguments for a Leica. If I had been saving money in the last 2 years, i probably would buy one very soon.

    To me, as for you, the matter would be one of size and convenience. And the quieter the shutter, the better.

    I mean, 8000$ in our neck of the wood is OK spending for something we are passionate about. I juts can’t afford that. My finances have been lousy for 2 years now.

    What about the Epson dig. rangefinder? David did a review, available on the net, on it. It’s around 2300$, but maybe not available anymore?

  • It’s always interesting to read about people shelling out big bux for the Leicas. I’d do it too, I think, except I have been to the dentist’s office and I have $5K in dental work and root canal awaiting me, and I suppose I can take comfort in the knowledge that while I would not spend this kind of money on a Leica, I will get to use its monetary equivalent three times a day plus all the gnoshing I can handle. Yes, there’s nothing like knowing I have an M7 body stuffed in my mouth to make me feel better about photography. But enough about the gruesome fate that awaits me in the chair; I have two new galleries at LS, plus I have re-edited the Fire gallery in the light of everyone’s suggestions. The galleries are at:

    http://www.lightstalkers.org/galleries/slideshow/14493

    http://www.lightstalkers.org/galleries/slideshow/14546

    and the re-edited Fire is at:

    http://www.lightstalkers.org/galleries/slideshow/14327

    Anyone with suggestions, editing advice, coupons for free pizza and beer, are welcome. Thanks!

  • ALL FYI

    … interesting talk from David Griffin with mention of David and Jonas and more … good talk, good sentiment, though still somewhat tainted with recent news of treatment of Allard and Cobb, and the mention of “your shot,” which has less than favorable conditions attached to it … all things i probably shouldn’t say … but i have always loved NG Mag and its like learning an old friend has betrayed you, or your belief in them … very sad … sorry david, do not wish to cause you problems but nothing ever changes if nothing is ever said …

    … still, a good talk from TED …

    http://thomashawk.com/2008/08/how-photography-connects-us-to-world.html

    PANOS, I’ll be in Greece in a few weeks, sorry i’m jumping the gun, would’ve loved to party on the peloloponnese … perhaps still :)))

  • Herve..
    I can’t wait for that epson rangefinder..
    there are also rumors for a $2000
    Nikon(yes!!!) rangefinder and rumors
    for a ZEISS one..
    But rumors.. Still rumors..
    Honestly
    It’s unfair .. But it’s not a big market..
    For rangefinder people out there..!
    Everybody shooting sports and celebrities./
    It’s not the quality that counts..
    It’s the quantity..
    ..
    Just like porn..

    Andrew, yep.. Greece with DAH..
    Couldn’t get any better than that..

  • There is an amaizing video on how they select photogs at Magnum..

    Arie

  • YOUNG TOM,
    Don’t worry… You don’t need special
    Invitation.. You can stop by anytime..
    Let me go and fix that god damn place first…

  • Panos does not like pornos…. ;-))))

    The RD1 Epson was the first RF and has been discontinued early last year. Just checked on the net after I mentionned it here.

  • Herve…;)))
    my bad….
    i should leave porn out …
    I live about an hour southeast of Tarzana in the “VALLEY”…
    You know… the CAPITAL OF PORN…
    once again,
    i apologize to all the HARD working pornstars out there..
    peace

  • The more I read about the panasonic Lumix LX3 the more I want to see one…not only can you attach a rangefinder viewer, but you can focus manually (albeit with a joystick…so that might be interesting..)…but along with the Leica DC Vario-Summicron lens, raw processing, manual control, reportedly not-too-bad lag, ability to shoot HD video…etc etc might make it worthwhile..and it’s “only” about $500…

    ok, that’s my last techie post. sorry…..

    and if I didn’t say so before, any and all comments/suggestions/critiques appreciate on my gypsy images…

    ok…back to the red wine….

  • ANDREW…
    yes the lumix is great…
    but check this compact below:

    http://www.sigma-dp1.com/

  • Panos,

    I played with a DP1 for about a week…not bad, but I sent it back….IMO it seemed a slow to focus and a bit slow overall with shutter lag, it took forever to write when shooting raw, and seemed a bit noisy at anything higher than 100 iso…maybe I was expecting too much because of the hype of full-frame, but I was disappointed….didn’t seem worth it to me, figured I’d stick with the dslr until I found something I enjoyed…

    Lassal, you have it exactly right, when you find the tool (in this case, camera) that fits you, that’s the one to use!

    ok, so *that* was my last techie post!

  • ARIE

    much enjoyed the video as a break from my all day scan-a-thon.. but had to laugh out loud at the intro..”once a year, all Magnum members gather..” It completely reminds me of these wildlife/anthropology movies from my childhood.. “the male zebra mounts the female, and chatters his teeth during coitus”..maybe too much scanning?

  • DavidMcG,
    i dont know the camera…
    but just by reading the specs ,
    im already impressed just for the fact it records DNG..

  • Andrew,
    thanks for the info…
    disappointed about the sigma…
    i would then stick with the Paolo Pellegrin E-550 olympus…
    i would buy one just because he used it…:))))
    that kinda “groupie” i am…
    laughing ,
    NOT DRIVING ANYMORE…

    … loved the gypsies by the way…

  • AH, PANOS

    good you are out of the car. when does Greece become a reality? I have a special stash of clothes marked ‘one day I will wear this in Greece’..ok, not exactly, but I dream of a life in Greece/Turkey/Morocco where I am on the Mediterranean sea and I have these fabulous linens and things blowing in the wind, stucco house behind me as I lounge on the wall and drink my mint tea..better stop and get back to scanning!

  • I was intrigued by the compacts mentionned here. I went to read a bit more about them, finding they all have huge drawbacks that will catch up with you quickly when shooting PJ, docu, street style. They are not that cheap either, though no lens is needed separately.

    Actually, What I would ask anyone, is, what reasonably priced (HD?) video do you recommend, to add movie to stills, and go MM?

    I’ve always had fun shooting videos before, and that’s what pretty much kept me away from photography, until that passion crept up a few years ago (arguably there is no passion in the shooting of video itself).

  • .. loved the gypsies by the way…
    ——————

    Andrew, That’s “gypsies”, not (real) gypsies, BTW?

  • yeah it looks like nice camera to throw in your pocket and I like the idea of the optional square aspect ratio

  • Erica

    HAHAhahahahaha…too funny, I read your comment before I saw the vid and you’re right, exactly what I was expecting him to say….well, something like that, anyway.

    Panos
    I was disappointed too…might have been that i bought into the hype somewhat….but I tried a canon G9 as well, didn’t like it for other reasons….but i’m getting used to carrying my bag with me everywhere now….glad you liked the gypsies… the light was just brutal (1 pm, very sunny, and if they had set up on the other side of the pavillion they and the spectators would have been in cool shade,) but I wanted to try and get some good shots…working to try and get better with “people” images….I will leave the link attached to my name, if anyone else has any comment or critique it is very welcome…I need all the help I can get!

    A.

  • ANDREW…
    “help” speaking…
    take your very first photo, for example…
    why NOT FOCUS all the way at the last person,
    so we get a good feeling???
    why the first person so special ???
    what are you traying to ” say”???

    5, and 6 , great…
    i like the last one but why dont you “mute”
    something???, anything ??? too crowded…
    still love it… but lets “play”…

  • herve,

    yes, they are most certainly “gypsies”…it was interesting to watch a couple of them interacting with their significant others in the crowd…

    panos
    words to make me think and push…thank you…I do see…

  • ANDREW ,
    sorry i forgot 4… my favorite…
    excellent… start your essay with this one and im “hooked”…
    peace

  • ANDREW,….
    god damn… no 7….
    why dont you GO DANCE WITH HER…
    go and shoot close, close , close…
    ( she wouldnt say no, unless you smell…)…:)))))))))
    kidding
    peace

  • Panos, when was the last time you saw the house? Where is?

  • YOUNG TOM,
    i randomly googled ARTA ( my hometown ), and i got this link below:

    http://www.greeklandscapes.com/greece/arta/arta_02_photos.html

    in the photo no:8, you see the medieval castle… my elementary school was inside the “prisons” of that castle…
    photo no1.: Agia Theodora church
    built in the BYZANTIUM ERA … my high school is literally “attached”
    to that church…
    in the photo no:10…( all bad, bad, bad, photos btw, but anyways…
    you see the famous “BRIDGE OF ARTA”… that is haunted by the wife of
    the architect that build it… they sacrificed her and buried her in the foundations…so the bridge is solid and sturdy according to the old books and myths…
    ( when people didnt have TV… they used to sit around the fire tell funny stories and scare each other- kinda like we do virtually here !!!)

  • Andrew, thanks, did you find out which group they’re from? I understand there are different gypsy groups within the USA, all going back to different european ancestries or branches og gypsies?

    I also wonder if they kept to themselves or married out. Damned interesting if these white kids were 100% gypsies. So different from European gypsies (thinking of Koudelka’s, but also roms).

    You got me real curious here!

  • Herve , ;)))))))
    i didnt know you are such a WOMANIZER ..

  • Just have a couple of minutes but if I don’t write now another several hundred posts may go by…so to catch up…

    LASSAL…
    What a LOVELY project. Well done and with great intention. Yes, you must continue…How about in France? :))

    I understand wanting to see what you’ve shot immediately to learn from it. I also do this to see what is working and what is not but I try to keep a balance between this and…

    ANTON…I very much like your “download and don’t look” suggestion. Thanks for sharing it. Did not come up with it on my own because I don’t know if I have the discipline to keep from looking :)) but it is a great idea which I will incorporate into my workflow as desired. I DO love digital and don’t hold its immediacy against it…It definitely can be an asset.

    bye all,,,
    walking quickly

  • ANDREW B

    Thanks for visiting my website and the compliments!

    LASSAL

    I’m sympathetic with your feelings on how a workshop can make you go in a different direction, but it’s not a direction you’re comfortable with. When I did a workshop with Antonin Kratochvil at TPW, I started taking different kinds of pictures because what I thought I wanted to do wasn’t working out.

    Many people have since told me that they love these pictures and why don’t I continue on that theme or style – but it’s not something I want to explore further at this time.

    I’m a firm believer though that the main benefit of a workshop is not really the pictures you make during the workshop, but what you learn and absorb from the instructor and your fellow students. You may not see any immediate benefit, but it will influence your work later.

  • DAH spotting in this very nice video on Steve Mc Curry. Hard to recognize him without his “MASH” Army vest, though…:-):

    PS: Panos, what are you on, tonight!?!?

  • on wathcing the “how magnum selects photographers” etc…it appears in one of the frames that one of the members is looking at Ackerman’s Fiction book…my god, had no idea (will ask him before i come to ny), as im curious if michael applied……i know one couple who applied, man got in, wife did not…i dont think i want to see ever a video like this again…i dont know why, but it left me feeling incredibly sad…

    except for koudelka alone, loading film…

    b

  • DAVID

    Just wondering… I want make quit work visit in Italy in next year. Don’t know when yet, but I want safe some extra money for sure. So maybe if you will have not workshop in poland (and I hope you will) and you will have it in italy (I am sure you will ) I could make my trip in the same time and step by for an hour and say hello?
    Do you know anything about workshop in italy next year?
    For me trip to italy is not as expenive as to many other countries in the world and this will be one of my favorite place for work for sure. I sould not delay this tripe more that to next year.
    what you think about this meeting idea?

    peace and good famili time

  • ANTON, W.ROBERT, NICK,

    Guys I send you my prints. Sorry it took so long.
    I hope it will be good way to say, thanks :)

    peace

  • Well… again, one day off and two full new pages with comments!!! Definitely this is a very special place. As i’m still out of civilitation, my internet connection does not work very well. Seems like you all where talking about the M8 Leica. My boyfriend has one since a year ago and he has mixture feelings about it. he just loves it but never uses it for a professional work as he has serious difficulties focusing properly. One of his friends that also has one Leica, suffers the same focus problem….

    LASSAL, thanks so much for the links about the kolkata project. It is really interesting and want to read it carefully as maybe I will be interested in doing it (will you?) but due to my slow internet connection where I am now, I better should wait until I go back to the city (in ten days. I’m now on vacations!!)
    And so great that you got an apartment for you and your dog in Perpignan!!! I still don´t have room so maybe I check something like that. Thanks again!

    Best regards
    Ana

  • ANDREW, liked the gypsies a lot, especially #9

  • cathy

    another trick for not looking: just “copy” the files off the card to a folder in the finder/explorer, NOT using lightroom or bridge or transfer or whatever, that way you don’t even see the images whizzing by on your screen at all… but you’re right, it takes nerves of steel not to give in and take a peek anyway :) but the key is really to do it the same night when you get home from shooting and you’re dead tired… that’s what does it for me

    marcin

    thanks for doing this man. means a lot to me. another “real” thing in this virtual place; so important… i really hope you could put the film to good use! i’m pretty curious, i’ll be watching the letterbox closely…

    panos

    greece… your house… the DAH posse… in real, no digital barrier… i WILL be there my friend… images coming to mind; driving around the rocky seaside cliffs in an old fiat 500 like jean reno in le grand bleu…

    take care

    anton