Sally Mann had, early in her career, been accused by some of shooting child pornography for making photographs of her naked children at home …the FBI raided the studio of Jock Sturges and confiscated his lifetime of work often concentrating on naked pre-pubescent teenagers on a public beach in France…and Antoine d’Agata will, at some point, have to explain to his 3 young daughters why daddy takes pictures of prostitutes….
there is no explanation needed of course at the fine galleries who represent these photographers works…and, of course, even the conservative lawmakers no longer chastise these artists for what they do…maybe they now even want to invest in a print or two!!!
these artists quite simply photograph their own lives….
one of the leaders in self documentation is of course Nan Goldin…her eloquent "Ballad of Sexual Dependency" is a landmark testament to the concept of "my life is art" with sexuality as just a part of everyday life…Duane Michaels and Robert Mapplethorpe certainly felt no need to "stay in the closet" and their work often reflects an inner peace…and the remarkable love story by Jacob Sobel, "Sabine," is a newer addition to the collection of fine personal essays…
so, how does one determine when a photographer is making "art" or stepping over the line to indecency???
last week, right here on our squeaky clean forum, controversy arose….our man Panos, never one to be called shy in the first place, took us all down his road of "discovery" with a new woman in his life….the revelations in his new work shocked some, rocked some, and made some readers here fire off charges that Panos had just gone too far this time..
now, wasn’t Panos supposed to be photographing his life??? no holds barred….to stick tight to his assignment ,yes this "event" should have happened at Venice Beach!!! not up in the mountains somewhere… but isn’t it all a part of his rather irreverent self exploration of his California lifestyle???
now, the other photographer who is doing self exploration here is Patricia….she is just as stylistically free as he….Patricia’s hypothetical "immobilization" keeps her from doing absolutely nothing…Patricia knows no bounds… she is as "liberal" as they come…and where some would see storm clouds, Patricia sees clear to the blue horizon…
i am mentoring both Patricia and Panos towards book projects…these two photographer’s works quite literally "look in the mirror" perhaps more than any two essays we have going here….these two have much much more in common than whatever differences may be apparent…i think i may be the only one here who has met them both and i see the irony of their similarity…
in critiquing much of the work here from you, i usually ask most of you to "loosen up" a bit…let yourself go…be who you really are….this does not mean i want to open Pandora’s Box and have you spin totally out of life control …but frankly, i would rather mentor a photographer who is "too loose" rather than one who is "too tight"….."too tight" is hard to unwind …"too loose" can be guided to lead to the "edge" and it is right along this "invisible edge" where the real magic of creativity lies…..
what do you think about this??? not just the right of photographers and artists to explore sexuality , but the deeper value of documenting their own lives for its own artistic sake…
Where can I find panos’s and patricia’s work???
I’ve been searching the comments and other posts but there is just so much to go through I can’t find it.
Photographers such as Nan Goldin, Larry Clark, Ryan Mcginley all inspire me so much to just keep photographing my personal life, even if at this time its mainly just for me and my friends/family to enjoy.
DAH…
do you remember after our first workshop together you or I (not sure which one) said that you pulled the stick out of my ass and hit me hard with it….. you totally loosened me up as a photographer. i could never have shot my mexico project the way i use to shoot. by the way – i will be posting that work very soon… you are the best DAH!
and…. i missed this work of panos’ – is their a link? obviously i am intrigued….
DAVID:
you want LOOSE??….you want exploration?….
ok, here is one of Marina’s series…about us…..i think you saw part of this work last year when Saal-Ball invited the 2 of us to show some work….
anyway, it’s her story about lots of things…open the eyes…
http://www.marinablack.com
story: HOURS
GO….
and wait to you see the ending of bones of time…..there will be nudity there too…
ENJOY MARINA’S HOURS POEM…
running
hugs
bob
Another idea just popped into my head. I feel that right now my work is too tight and i recognize that its my fault. It comes from me being afraid to offend my friends/family/aquaintinces but also i feel most of them are so afraid to open up when my camera is out. I think a lot of this self-consciousness, especially in my age group 18-24, is that everyone is afraid of photos being posted online to photo sharing sites. They don’t seem to think of photography as documentary or art.
BOB…
i LOVE marina’s HOURS project. beautiful, dark, mysterious, loose, open, loving…. love it.
David;
Thank you!!!! That’s what I need to hear, I really appreciate your assessments, it’s the only way for my work to grow and mature!! Feel free to boot my rear as hard as necessary!!!
My last trip focussed on the kids, who to me seemed to bear the brunt of the conditions etc. The last trip I really wanted to focus on the kids eyes when they let their “guard” slip. That is why to a certain extent I decided to concentrate on portraits for this trip.
As an opener, I would use the first image (girl collecting water amongst the buildings). This is the one I’ve used to open the lectures I’ve been undertaking.
I have got “looser” images to put up, which I will try to do soon.
I am committed to this project (or maybe obsessed as my parents & partner think!!). I realise I must follow it over a relatively long period of time. My idea would be to publish a book in a similar vein to Larry Towell’s “El Salvador”, but in my own style of course…… To be honest I prefer the “very very esoteric and give us an “artistic interpretation” style.
I found that Timor affected me much more than I ever would have thought. Glenn could probably tell you more, he is the Timor expert!!
I am however planning another project which ties in with my “Pacific urbanisation” project; and that is the disastrous HIV situation in PNG. I just want to be sure I don’t stretch my meagre resources too thin and not do these projects the justice they deserve. But I do feel I can concentrate on these projects concurrently.
Thank you
GINA :)))))
I’ve just read your comment to Marina :)))))…..she’s very happy and thanks you :))))…
ok:
FOR DAVID/PANOS/GINA…
very very quick…3 years ago, Marina and I photographed a couple over the course of an evening, which including photographs of them together, before during and after sex….my own photographs became a small series (25 photographs)…
so, i’ve posted a few of them at flickr for you David…out of sequence, just a few…kept the too explicit out, because they are part of the series, and the work doesnt make sense just posting, but i will put up some here, so you get a flavor….
work is from 2005/2006…part of the DreamSong series is here:
i will take them down tomorrow…
http://www.flickr.com/photos/73821181@N00/2721665782/
the pics from the series i’ve posted are entiteld “couple, for david alan harvey”…
a few..
running to bed
b
BOB…
thank you for sharing. i love the style of both of your work… do you have a website?
also – the “i phone” of Nachtwey – that is my standing next to him (blurred) – i was working the book signing with Jim.
BOB,MARINA….
well, i have never thought that either one of you was someone i would have to “unwind”..you are looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooose!!!!!!!!
CHARLIE, ROSS…
it is heartwarming to say the least to hear you both with such GREAT ATTITUDES..honestly, i am always worried that my critiques on line sound so much “tougher” than when i do them in person, where body language and eye contact “soften” the words…and where i can move pictures around right in front of you and explain clearly what works and what does not…
in my workshops i know very well that an honest critique just WORKS…..if RESULTS are what matters, then i will stick with this approach…but, i have not been so sure on line…i did a couple of clear clean honest reviews with some photographers here and never heard from the photographer again…so, i was at one point very discouraged about the on line critique platform….
i am the last person on the planet to want to hurt anyone’s feelings, but i felt it was too easy to do that with the “coldness” of type on a page as opposed to a hand on the shoulder…
overall, i have always felt that, painful as it sometimes can be, that i would really be disingenuous if i did not “tell the truth” to the best of my ability and knowledge…
of course, i am also the first to tell photographers to get “responsible second opinions” too….and , even more than that, always go with your own opinion first and foremost….you are always the “final judge” of your own work…
cheers, peace et al, david
I love personal photo essays…somewhere between the voyeurism and the slight glimpse into how someone sees them self, I love the work of all above mentioned photographers. I also think that whether or not you ever show anyone, there is an importance to turning the camera on yourself to see how it feels.
GINA-
so curious to see your mexico pictures, glad you will be posting soon!!
BOB and MARINA-
what I would give for a day looking through your projects and negatives, soaking up the grains and hearing stories! Thank you for sharing….
David;
No worries, I’d rather have someone give honest criticism than blow smoke up my rear!!!
You’re right; Timor is a complex situation, probably even more so since the end of Indonesian occupation. I’ll list some of the facts I need to “describe”…..
A quarter of the population killed in the 24 years of Indonesian occupation.
In late 1999, about 70% of the economic infrastructure of Timor-Leste was laid waste by Indonesian troops and anti-independence militias.
Population, 800,000 and has approximately 100,000 Internally Displaced Persons.
60 per cent of the population is under age 18
East Timor has one of the highest birth rates in the world, 7.7 children per woman.
Infant mortality rate: approx 4.2%, 50 % of infants are underweight
Only around 20 % of East Timorese graduate from high school
Unemployment rate of approximately 50 %.
More than 20,000 young people entered the job market this year but not a single new job was created. No country could bear an unemployment rate growing at two per cent a year
Half of the population lives on less than US$0.55 a day.
95% of the population are Roman Catholic.
I agree to a certain degree about online critiques, it would certainly be MUCH easier to explain my photographic intent face to face!!! But I really do appreciate you taking the time to help me.
The first image (child gathering water), I think, does sum up the situation to a certain extent. I also tried similar with the soldier (father) holding the hand of his daughter with automatic weapon over the shoulder.
Any ideas/angles gratefully accepted!!!!
Thanks again…..
I am “too tight”…
Bob,
I love both of yours works…
must run to hometown…
peace and unwind to all
DAVID
What happened to the bedroom photo?
Tight Shmight – DAH the artists you mention Sally , Jock , and Nan ( sally and Nan’s work is on my wall and and bookshelves) are documenting their lives and all the detailed nuances that long term relationships bring , but they have honed their technique , focused their intent and stayed the course despite all critisism thrown at them , That I think is the difference – The whole personal ,nudity horizontal Tango thing is sooooo easy to do badly , Ya gotta admire the ones who can make it work.
As for Marinas work , I think I sent a drunken message of appreciation when the site first came up , and quite frankly I’d be dissapointed NOT to see a naked picture of Bob up there! ( It’ is you brother? Is’nt it ? )
”this does not mean i want to open Pandora’s Box and have you spin totally out of life control ..”
that would not be something to condone.. be reponsable for.. although the photographs produced could be interesting..
panos and patricia are both excellent.
he, because his lack of unselfconscious attitudes to picture taking.. unafraid how people will perceive him when they see his book… and i think that is a big talent.. because people will talk.. people will judge and bring their own sometimes cynical eyes to his work..
she because her lack of unselfconscious attitudes to picture taking.. unafraid how people will perceive her when they see her book… and i think that is a big talent.. because people will talk.. people will judge and bring their own sometimes cynical eyes to her work..
two of a kind in a way, and then very different at the same time.
i was surprised when some of jocks photos were removed by authorities from this years ‘festival of photography’, here in norway.
the organizer commented, rather strongly, in the press that is was ‘ridiculous’ to let a bunch of ‘loonatics’ control what ‘should’ (i hate that word) and should not be exhibited.
well, quite.
bob
i like the couple photos a lot.. allowed me to look at the moments without feeling at all intrusive.. good one.. gently done.. respectful.. hinting at the pleasure without being literal.. like it.
there is always a camera laying around the flat here and it often gets treated to some very personal moments. perhaps some of them will surface at some point..
is it time to mention the ‘comfort zone’, i wonder?
i think mine was blown open far as it would go a long while ago.. more based around seeing some tough examples of mortality as a teenager than anything sexual.. what i would say though is that so long as someone is being honest, of ‘themselves’ and instinctive – anything goes.. i’d say that of life, love and everything, including photosnappery.
”this does not mean i want to open Pandora’s Box and have you spin totally out of life control ..”
that would not be something to condone.. be reponsable for.. although the photographs produced could be interesting..
panos and patricia are both excellent.
he, because his lack of unselfconscious attitudes to picture taking.. unafraid how people will perceive him when they see his book… and i think that is a big talent.. because people will talk.. people will judge and bring their own sometimes cynical eyes to his work..
she because her lack of unselfconscious attitudes to picture taking.. unafraid how people will perceive her when they see her book… and i think that is a big talent.. because people will talk.. people will judge and bring their own sometimes cynical eyes to her work..
two of a kind in a way, and then very different at the same time.
i was surprised when some of jocks photos were removed by authorities from this years ‘festival of photography’, here in norway.
the organizer commented, rather strongly, in the press that is was ‘ridiculous’ to let a bunch of ‘loonatics’ control what ‘should’ (i hate that word) and should not be exhibited.
well, quite.
bob
i like the couple photos a lot.. allowed me to look at the moments without feeling at all intrusive.. good one.. gently done.. respectful.. hinting at the pleasure without being literal.. like it.
there is always a camera laying around the flat here and it often gets treated to some very personal moments. perhaps some of them will surface at some point..
is it time to mention the ‘comfort zone’, i wonder?
i think mine was blown open far as it would go a long while ago.. more based around seeing some tough examples of mortality as a teenager than anything sexual.. what i would say though is that so long as someone is being honest, of ‘themselves’ and instinctive – anything goes.. i’d say that of life, love and everything, including photosnappery.
”this does not mean i want to open Pandora’s Box and have you spin totally out of life control ..”
that would not be something to condone.. be reponsable for.. although the photographs produced could be interesting..
panos and patricia are both excellent.
he, because his lack of unselfconscious attitudes to picture taking.. unafraid how people will perceive him when they see his book… and i think that is a big talent.. because people will talk.. people will judge and bring their own sometimes cynical eyes to his work..
she because her lack of unselfconscious attitudes to picture taking.. unafraid how people will perceive her when they see her book… and i think that is a big talent.. because people will talk.. people will judge and bring their own sometimes cynical eyes to her work..
two of a kind in a way, and then very different at the same time.
i was surprised when some of jocks photos were removed by authorities from this years ‘festival of photography’, here in norway.
the organizer commented, rather strongly, in the press that is was ‘ridiculous’ to let a bunch of ‘loonatics’ control what ‘should’ (i hate that word) and should not be exhibited.
well, quite.
bob
i like the couple photos a lot.. allowed me to look at the moments without feeling at all intrusive.. good one.. gently done.. respectful.. hinting at the pleasure without being literal.. like it.
there is always a camera laying around the flat here and it often gets treated to some very personal moments. perhaps some of them will surface at some point..
is it time to mention the ‘comfort zone’, i wonder?
i think mine was blown open far as it would go a long while ago.. more based around seeing some tough examples of mortality as a teenager than anything sexual.. what i would say though is that so long as someone is being honest, of ‘themselves’ and instinctive – anything goes.. i’d say that of life, love and everything, including photosnappery.
”this does not mean i want to open Pandora’s Box and have you spin totally out of life control ..”
that would not be something to condone.. be reponsable for.. although the photographs produced could be interesting..
panos and patricia are both excellent.
he, because his lack of unselfconscious attitudes to picture taking.. unafraid how people will perceive him when they see his book… and i think that is a big talent.. because people will talk.. people will judge and bring their own sometimes cynical eyes to his work..
she because her lack of unselfconscious attitudes to picture taking.. unafraid how people will perceive her when they see her book… and i think that is a big talent.. because people will talk.. people will judge and bring their own sometimes cynical eyes to her work..
two of a kind in a way, and then very different at the same time.
i was surprised when some of jocks photos were removed by authorities from this years ‘festival of photography’, here in norway.
the organizer commented, rather strongly, in the press that is was ‘ridiculous’ to let a bunch of ‘loonatics’ control what ‘should’ (i hate that word) and should not be exhibited.
well, quite.
bob
i like the couple photos a lot.. allowed me to look at the moments without feeling at all intrusive.. good one.. gently done.. respectful.. hinting at the pleasure without being literal.. like it.
there is always a camera laying around the flat here and it often gets treated to some very personal moments. perhaps some of them will surface at some point..
is it time to mention the ‘comfort zone’, i wonder?
i think mine was blown open far as it would go a long while ago.. more based around seeing some tough examples of mortality as a teenager than anything sexual.. what i would say though is that so long as someone is being honest, of ‘themselves’ and instinctive – anything goes.. i’d say that of life, love and everything, including photosnappery.
”this does not mean i want to open Pandora’s Box and have you spin totally out of life control ..”
that would not be something to condone.. be reponsable for.. although the photographs produced could be interesting..
panos and patricia are both excellent.
he, because his lack of unselfconscious attitudes to picture taking.. unafraid how people will perceive him when they see his book… and i think that is a big talent.. because people will talk.. people will judge and bring their own sometimes cynical eyes to his work..
she because her lack of unselfconscious attitudes to picture taking.. unafraid how people will perceive her when they see her book… and i think that is a big talent.. because people will talk.. people will judge and bring their own sometimes cynical eyes to her work..
two of a kind in a way, and then very different at the same time.
i was surprised when some of jocks photos were removed by authorities from this years ‘festival of photography’, here in norway.
the organizer commented, rather strongly, in the press that is was ‘ridiculous’ to let a bunch of ‘loonatics’ control what ‘should’ (i hate that word) and should not be exhibited.
well, quite.
bob
i like the couple photos a lot.. allowed me to look at the moments without feeling at all intrusive.. good one.. gently done.. respectful.. hinting at the pleasure without being literal.. like it.
there is always a camera laying around the flat here and it often gets treated to some very personal moments. perhaps some of them will surface at some point..
is it time to mention the ‘comfort zone’, i wonder?
i think mine was blown open far as it would go a long while ago.. more based around seeing some tough examples of mortality as a teenager than anything sexual.. what i would say though is that so long as someone is being honest, of ‘themselves’ and instinctive – anything goes.. i’d say that of life, love and everything, including photosnappery.
”this does not mean i want to open Pandora’s Box and have you spin totally out of life control ..”
that would not be something to condone.. be reponsable for.. although the photographs produced could be interesting..
panos and patricia are both excellent.
he, because his lack of unselfconscious attitudes to picture taking.. unafraid how people will perceive him when they see his book… and i think that is a big talent.. because people will talk.. people will judge and bring their own sometimes cynical eyes to his work..
she because her lack of unselfconscious attitudes to picture taking.. unafraid how people will perceive her when they see her book… and i think that is a big talent.. because people will talk.. people will judge and bring their own sometimes cynical eyes to her work..
two of a kind in a way, and then very different at the same time.
i was surprised when some of jocks photos were removed by authorities from this years ‘festival of photography’, here in norway.
the organizer commented, rather strongly, in the press that is was ‘ridiculous’ to let a bunch of ‘loonatics’ control what ‘should’ (i hate that word) and should not be exhibited.
well, quite.
bob
i like the couple photos a lot.. allowed me to look at the moments without feeling at all intrusive.. good one.. gently done.. respectful.. hinting at the pleasure without being literal.. like it.
there is always a camera laying around the flat here and it often gets treated to some very personal moments. perhaps some of them will surface at some point..
is it time to mention the ‘comfort zone’, i wonder?
i think mine was blown open far as it would go a long while ago.. more based around seeing some tough examples of mortality as a teenager than anything sexual.. what i would say though is that so long as someone is being honest, of ‘themselves’ and instinctive – anything goes.. i’d say that of life, love and everything, including photosnappery.
”this does not mean i want to open Pandora’s Box and have you spin totally out of life control ..”
that would not be something to condone.. be reponsable for.. although the photographs produced could be interesting..
panos and patricia are both excellent.
he, because his lack of unselfconscious attitudes to picture taking.. unafraid how people will perceive him when they see his book… and i think that is a big talent.. because people will talk.. people will judge and bring their own sometimes cynical eyes to his work..
she because her lack of unselfconscious attitudes to picture taking.. unafraid how people will perceive her when they see her book… and i think that is a big talent.. because people will talk.. people will judge and bring their own sometimes cynical eyes to her work..
two of a kind in a way, and then very different at the same time.
i was surprised when some of jocks photos were removed by authorities from this years ‘festival of photography’, here in norway.
the organizer commented, rather strongly, in the press that is was ‘ridiculous’ to let a bunch of ‘loonatics’ control what ‘should’ (i hate that word) and should not be exhibited.
well, quite.
bob
i like the couple photos a lot.. allowed me to look at the moments without feeling at all intrusive.. good one.. gently done.. respectful.. hinting at the pleasure without being literal.. like it.
there is always a camera laying around the flat here and it often gets treated to some very personal moments. perhaps some of them will surface at some point..
is it time to mention the ‘comfort zone’, i wonder?
i think mine was blown open far as it would go a long while ago.. more based around seeing some tough examples of mortality as a teenager than anything sexual.. what i would say though is that so long as someone is being honest, of ‘themselves’ and instinctive – anything goes.. i’d say that of life, love and everything, including photosnappery.
”this does not mean i want to open Pandora’s Box and have you spin totally out of life control ..”
that would not be something to condone.. be reponsable for.. although the photographs produced could be interesting..
panos and patricia are both excellent.
he, because his lack of unselfconscious attitudes to picture taking.. unafraid how people will perceive him when they see his book… and i think that is a big talent.. because people will talk.. people will judge and bring their own sometimes cynical eyes to his work..
she because her lack of unselfconscious attitudes to picture taking.. unafraid how people will perceive her when they see her book… and i think that is a big talent.. because people will talk.. people will judge and bring their own sometimes cynical eyes to her work..
two of a kind in a way, and then very different at the same time.
i was surprised when some of jocks photos were removed by authorities from this years ‘festival of photography’, here in norway.
the organizer commented, rather strongly, in the press that is was ‘ridiculous’ to let a bunch of ‘loonatics’ control what ‘should’ (i hate that word) and should not be exhibited.
well, quite.
bob
i like the couple photos a lot.. allowed me to look at the moments without feeling at all intrusive.. good one.. gently done.. respectful.. hinting at the pleasure without being literal.. like it.
there is always a camera laying around the flat here and it often gets treated to some very personal moments. perhaps some of them will surface at some point..
is it time to mention the ‘comfort zone’, i wonder?
i think mine was blown open far as it would go a long while ago.. more based around seeing some tough examples of mortality as a teenager than anything sexual.. what i would say though is that so long as someone is being honest, of ‘themselves’ and instinctive – anything goes.. i’d say that of life, love and everything, including photosnappery.
”this does not mean i want to open Pandora’s Box and have you spin totally out of life control ..”
that would not be something to condone.. be reponsable for.. although the photographs produced could be interesting..
panos and patricia are both excellent.
he, because his lack of unselfconscious attitudes to picture taking.. unafraid how people will perceive him when they see his book… and i think that is a big talent.. because people will talk.. people will judge and bring their own sometimes cynical eyes to his work..
she because her lack of unselfconscious attitudes to picture taking.. unafraid how people will perceive her when they see her book… and i think that is a big talent.. because people will talk.. people will judge and bring their own sometimes cynical eyes to her work..
two of a kind in a way, and then very different at the same time.
i was surprised when some of jocks photos were removed by authorities from this years ‘festival of photography’, here in norway.
the organizer commented, rather strongly, in the press that is was ‘ridiculous’ to let a bunch of ‘loonatics’ control what ‘should’ (i hate that word) and should not be exhibited.
well, quite.
bob
i like the couple photos a lot.. allowed me to look at the moments without feeling at all intrusive.. good one.. gently done.. respectful.. hinting at the pleasure without being literal.. like it.
there is always a camera laying around the flat here and it often gets treated to some very personal moments. perhaps some of them will surface at some point..
is it time to mention the ‘comfort zone’, i wonder?
i think mine was blown open far as it would go a long while ago.. more based around seeing some tough examples of mortality as a teenager than anything sexual.. what i would say though is that so long as someone is being honest, of ‘themselves’ and instinctive – anything goes.. i’d say that of life, love and everything, including photosnappery.
sorry everyone…
just got home with a BROKEN IPHONE…
no phone, or communication, or texting or emails… all day…
even now… but now im at home… laptop…
it feels SO WEIRD … NO PHONE….
anyways… the XXX link below:
http://web.mac.com/innerspacecowpanos/Site/LOVE_CONNECTIONS.html
Ross – Top Left
The hairdressing pic
The one with the girl in the red
Laughing girl
Sad girl
are the ones that stand out for me , The whole kid thing is problimatic when a majority of the adults are too stressed out by lifes circumstances to be engaged enough to be engaged with you , whereas the kids are often the most honest and unselfconsious so it’s easy to be drawn in , I grapple with the lack of age diverstity in my work all the time , but it’s not something I think of at the time , Lets face it , it’s on for young and old when it comes to this game – the young and the old – those too young too know and those too old to give a damn!
on the other hand if you teamed up aspects of your cockfighting stuff your well on the way to a significant body of work.
Peace is a hard shoot!
Hello to all,
How do we determine when a photographer makes ” the art ” or step over the line in the indecency? I do not know… I think that it varies according to each of us, our perception, our education, our culture and the vision of the photographer… but it is true that with the present pedophilia in the current world it can engender controversies…
I always had the project to photograph one day surrounding wall(speaker) and my child… and to integrate the work of my grandfather (death) and I which would give the life to speak about the life simply because as soon as we are born, we are already condemned. I am not of rather cheerful but dark nature! But I had an important accident being young, and I very early became aware of the death, then I think that the life is worth being…I maybe a little got lost…
Bob, I liked a lot your essay on Marina and you, thank you for the sharing of your intimacy…
Sean, if you do not find an accommodation on Perpignan, you can always sleep at my parent’s to Béziers, and we shall make from round trip(trips)!! I just hope that you are not allergic to cats!!
Kind regards, audrey
http://www.papermag.com/freeformimages/2006/nick_waplington/waplington12.html
honest.
___
hey panos
a link for people in china (and norway)?
muchas tanks.
David said for its own artistic sake, which means the artist/photographer treats its body/appearance as an object, just as s/he’d treat any other object worthy of artistic consideration. A portrait of self (projected, propped but not revealed), not a self-portrait (that which is revealed beyond/despite the prop/artistry).
I see Sally Mann’s family pictures, Nan Goldin’s, Mapplethorpe’s, could there be an effect of “trompe l’ oeil” induced by the artistry. I have no idea, after all, looking at the pictures, who is sally, who is her family, who is Nan, who is Mapplethorpe.
I think more of a sociology of peer-hood, clanship almost, where indeed one’s individuality, one’s family is maybe treated as a prop to the whole.
There may be an attempt at documentation, yet I wonder for all the clues these photographers give us, if that isn’t that of behaviour, more than lives, their lives.
If that makes sense…
audrey..
perhaps how we perceive also depends upon the context of the work.. my baby boy is going to be photographed endlessly.. from the first breath onwards.. and i’ll be careful about where the work goes.. life is life..
the whole pedophilia scandal that england went through was more to do with ‘silly season’* reporting than anything else.
there are some very, very dark people in the world.. but the way the media treat the subject is pretty sick as well.
it is a terrible shame that it feeds on parents worst nightmares and perspective has been lost.. to the point where chris morris did an excellent comedy expose of the media and their attitudes in his ‘brass eye’ series – ‘pedo-geddon’ episode.. which was roundly criticized in the u.k. yet stands as a fitting inditement of the media on the subject..**
it’s not a program to laugh at perhaps.. more something to watch and think about the media and their own shame.
* – silly season http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silly_season
** – chris morris http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9031532194656768989&q=chris%20morris%20pedophilia&hl=en
David, thanks for more explanation was nice to read them again and again and No your critiques are not tougher than could be bore. you’re so kind to all of us
ALL
seems everybody here will be in Perpignan, maybe next year I could come too gonna be wonderful to see you in person, have a good time there
“…Did you ever say yes to a pleasure?
Oh my friends, then you also said yes to ALL pain.
All things are linked, entwined, in love with one another…”
“…In reality human life, the earth, the universe, have no purpose or meaning. Thus “my” enterprise begins as nihilism, as negation of traditional ethics and religion.
At the same time the underlying motive for this denial is a FUCKING
burning love of life,
a deep sens(x)ual love of everything that exists, and of the whole of experience, good and bad( fuck it… GO BEYOND GOOD OR BAD ), pleasure and pain.
We don’t have to feel we are on trial for our eternal lives, we don’t have to prove anything to an invisible judge ( GOD ) in the sky. That realization can be a liberation… motherfuckers!
Think a b o u t it!
Glenn;
Thanks for the comments. Yes the best of the cockfighting will be used if I’m ever in a situation to publish. I tried to make that as abstract and loose (for me!)
In Timor I also focused on the children specifically to highlight the “problem” of such a disparity in the ratio of young and old.
I’m not sure if any camps will be left at Xmas, but think that it will be an interesting time to be there. Maybe a bit too wet though!!!
I will be putting up my new stuff, probably this week, some work from Maubisse etc. A mate of mine does my web work (for free!), so I don’t hassle him too much to get things done.
Have you looked at Garden Djama in Arnhem Land: Permaculture Design with the Barrara and Djinang?
http://ipc6.permaculturewest.org/ch06/calland/index.html
I do quite a bit of work here in NZ for permaculture/organics magazines. I found the link whilst looking for subjects just in case I was in Darwin for a reasonable length of time. It might be a positive story to use for your work???
Thanks for the comments, I really appreciate them.
Cheers.
“…Eternal return
Can you not hear it? Can you not smell it? Now my world is complete. Midnight is also midday. Pain is also joy, curse is also blessing, night is also a sun . . .
Did you ever say yes to a pleasure? Oh my friends, then you also said yes to all pain. All things are linked, entwined, in love with one another.
Did you ever want once to be twice? Did you ever say “Fortune, instant, moment, I love you!” If so, then you wanted everything back.
Everything over again, everything eternally, everything linked, threaded, in love, oh, just so did you love this world.
You eternals, love her for ever and at all times, and even to woe you will say: pass away, but return. For all joy longs for – eternity.
All joy wants eternity for all things. It wants honey, wants yeast-lees, wants drunken midnight, wants graves, wants grave tears’ comfort, wants gilded sundown.
What does joy not want? She is thirstier, heartier, hungrier, more terrible and more secret than all woe; she wants herself, bites into herself; the will of the ring struggles in her.
She wants love, she wants hate, she is profligate, she gives, throws away, begs someone to take her, thanks him if he does, she loves even to be hated.
So rich is joy that she thirsts for pain, for hell, for hate, for shame, for cripples, for earth – for this earth, oh, she knows it well!
” Also Sprach Zarathustra ”
peace
For me one of the best personal essays is by Solbol “Sabine”….just magic..it appeals to me on every level, from the subject matter, the mystery of the photos and the aesthetics of the high contrast b/w. Just stunning.
http://1997to2008.blogspot.com/
more.. and more. and more.. and more..
panos hola
- is there a general link for your work, for the visceral pleasure of those in china and norway? i have no joy with the regular links.
BTW
i’m finding editing in B&W really usefull.
the photos open quicker and there is also a simpler method of viewing.. i’m choosing photos on the interest rather than the colour.. looking forward to seeing them in colour again once edited.. for now though it’s all B&W, baby
in honour of this post..
http://bp3.blogger.com/_D7BO-iIFIl0/SJLQNJeHamI/AAAAAAAAAcM/yk43fLTKw44/s1600-h/Untitled-12.jpg
nothing mysterious about it.. it was in a dark corner of a public space after all.
beate had some trouble last night looking through my work.. we talked for a long while about it.. her fear being that it is a world i am missing.. a place i wanted to stay in.
as i showed her more work and she wandered through it herself this morning there is a better understanding i think..
photographing the obscene does not make me obscene..
disturbed at times, perhaps..
DAVID:
What’s loose? ;))))))….
GINA: :)))
WEBSITE: that’s in the works…by end of the year, something will be unwrapped ;))…thanks so much for your kind words :))
ANNA: :)))
any time your here, let us know: we’ll feed you lots of stories…and other goodies :)))…yea, grain grain grain….like time’s kisses and welts…it’s why both marina are obsessed with it…i tend to wreck my images with it…just as time…many dont understand that, but, well…what can one do :)))
MARCIN: :))
THANKS. Yes, I love Marina’s pics so much too…and we are a completely loose and open family…photography, like the rest of our lives, is part of our breathing, and so why should we be afraid to show ourselves…:))…marina’s project, i think, captures the joy and sadness, the mystery and the ho-hum of the life of a couple (us), it’s love and it’s celebration, its solitary and union…we’re both pretty free…and why not?…’cause the world enslaves, the world wants to pigeon-hole, the world wants to define…so we must try to be open with whatever it is we are…dharma…
BROTHER GLENN: in Marina’s post: that would be me :))))…young, slim, laughting, sleeping me…love how the shadows make me look strange: sometimes fat, sometimes bird-like, sometimes grandfatherly…the beauty and mystery of light and shadow :))
DAVID BOWEN:
thanks mate :))…i love the party pics too from yesterday (so many brilliant shots: bubble gum, girl with big tongue lunging, girl sleeping under newspapers, ass grabbing, sadness in corner of club, etc…) i just didnt have time to write…
ok…i’ll take down the pics now…
someday, i’ll post the entire series of DreamSongs…the whole suit from the woman singing (guitar and flute) to the wrestling to the xxx to the post-coital…i’ts one of my favorite projects and one of which im my proud, photographically….dont judge on the flickr pics: those are old, small res scans with old, bad scanner from 3 years ago…
FOR NOW: ENJOY MARINA’S STORY :)))
hugs
running
bob
DAH – on the run here – haven’t checked in for a while. Charlie Harbutt “loosened” me up. I think it’s more important to be able to loosen up photographers. We can all be terribly bound by “painterly” rules or what we see in the latest leading “photo” magazine or website. I’ll never forget being with our old pal Mark Godfrey back in Topeka – I was looking at an issue of “Infinity”. I showed him a photograph (long forgotten) and asked what the deal was with the picture? It didn’t make any sense to me. He looked at it and said, “why not?” A surprisingly eloquent two word answer to a difficult question. Anyway, I think you’re doing a terrific thing here. More power to you.
ps.
AUDREY :)))..
MERCI BEAUCOUP :)))…L’essai photographique de Marina et moi (HOURS) est les photo de Marina. :)))
Son travail: nos corps, sourires, déchirures, joie. ;)
Mien est l’histoire du couple russe. (OLD CLE)
:))
bob
I haven’t seen the Panos post but I have before me a monograph of the work of Nan Goldin. One photograph is titled ” Misty and Jimmy Paulette in a taxi, New York City USA”. They are on their way to a Gay pride meeting. It is one of the most powerful photographs that I have seen. I look at it and, knowing the times, I fear for their safety. I also see two complete people. This photograph, and my having some friends who happen to be gay has led me to question the stance of organized religion towards the gay issue. I love the fact that gay stands for “Good As You”. Some religious groups will tell you that to be gay is a perversion. Well, yes, for ME to be gay may be a perversion but for others it would be perverse NOT to be gay!
My point is that it is the intention that is important: in photography as in life. If you are true to yourself and harm no-one in the process, you will be complete. Poor, probably, but complete.
Good light to all,
Mike.
SIDNEY….
right after i posted the picture of the young woman on the bed, i remembered that i heard she just had a new baby….i have not spoken with her for a couple of years, do not know her husband etc…
my son’s girlfriend is a friend of hers, as is David M, but i just thought it prudent to take the picture down until i have her permission to publish it…
she loved the picture when i took it, but times change and her life status has obviously also changed..let’s wait and see what she says…
cheers, david
RAFAL..
yes, i should have mentioned “Sabine”…i will put it in now…thanks for the reminder, i love that book too…
DAVID:
i’ve taken the Russian couple photos down…someday, i’ll show you the whole series…very proud of the work…i showed some of the prints to the man (friend, painter, who know lives in Moskva) and he didnt say anything…had to feed him a bottle of wine to talk :))…part of a book someday as well..
as to SABINE..well, you already know what i think of Jacob…funny…SABINE was exhibited here at a book store (not a gallery)…stunning..no one, hardly anyone went..no review/write up..broke my heart: posted like hell at LS about the work, the book, 3 years ago..so funny now, to see him as a Magnum photographer…SABINE is one of the finest and most sad love songs i’ve swallowed…im guessing Jacob’s book on Tokyo will be just like that: a love song about his new partner and the world of tokyo…
Bones is also a love song…and will include nudity (not much) of a very graphic nature…..
our bodies, the singers of our lost and sweeping spirits…it will be a test too, ’cause i’ll have to show dima the series at some point, including the self-portraits that i made…
to embrace that which we are often unable to, in truth, embrace, without judgment or collusion…
can you email me your cell phone…so i can call u when u return from Tuscany…
hugs
b
BOB….
i think “Sabine” was just flat out a “one of kind” love story…i have seen Tokyo and it is not the same thing at all..very good, but very different…i mean, why would it be or should it be like “Sabine”?
for a future post we may want to discuss what happens if a photographer creates such a strong iconic work that she/he can never escape that original work…i have seen that happen many times as i am sure you have as well..
e-mail coming to you now…
off to a Magnum picnic at the beach…yup, we have picnics!!!!
cheers, david
thanks bob.
i’ve lots of respect for you’re openness and knowledge base on this here confluence of thoughts, and your compliment is well received.
damn.. i must be able to write just as well as you.. i am english ..
nope…. ahh.
BTW – the link you have on LS for your weekly screenings i broken..
pea’s n chips
picnics.. do you take teddybears?
one of the bonuses of becoming a father i look forward to with relish (pun).
teddy-bear picnics.
the fishing shop will replace my rod which broke.. totally irrelevant, i know.. i know..
patricia
may 2009.. replied in other thread.
love to..
love to..
:o)
I just found this thread, thanks to a lovely email from Reimar Ott, one of our brothers in Germany.
David, I’ve found that you and I are often dancing along parallel paths in our thoughts here on the blog. During my long drive yesterday–God, I LOVE going on long road trips by myself!–I started thinking that it was time to add some bare-assed self portraits to my project. And I know just the one I want to start with. It is
http://www.pbase.com/windchimewalker/image/92469434
This is from a series I worked on all winter called “Winter Nudes.” Some are self portraits but there are also pics of a dozen friends who kindly posed for me and allowed me to post the pics online. I allowed myself to play with the presentationns of these photos and had a wonderful time doing so. The link to the entire series is
http://www.pbase.com/windchimewalker/winter_nudes
Bodies are bodies, nothing more, nothing less. As an artist I’ve always found them beautiful. How we portray our own and others’ bodies says more about us than how we portray any other subject.
By the way, I adored Marina’s “Hours” from the first time I ever saw it. Exquisite work! And Bob, I’m sorry I missed the opportunity to see your couples pics. By the time I found this thread, that link was asking for a password.
Patricia
DAVID B….
i just cannot seem to find my old teddy bear…must be around here someplace….
PATRICIA…
yes, long drives clear the mind..but, my back still hurts!!!
i am running now, but will check your links tonight..
cheers, david