today i made four posts, including this one….all right here on “road trips”….normally, i would have spread them out over the other sections…most of you want me to go to one blog…..so, i will try it…well, two…i want to leave “student work” as is…but, most of my posts will go on “road trips” for at least the next week to see how it goes…so, pretend that “work in progess” and “friends/family” do not exist…gotta keep ‘em up until i see how this works and can save the material we have written….
so we will see how you like everything posted right here….a test…..to see if you actually read stories which are “at the bottom”….this means i will always be reading and keeping “alive” the top four stories or so…let me know please if this works for you….if i have not made all of your suggestions “come true”, it is simply because we cannot make it technically happen….but, we are working on it….
Oh Panos…. you saved my early morning as I woke up really down. I love The Velvet Underground. Warm vibes for this long day that just started in this part of the world…
By the way, about the SINGLES. Such a good job there!! Just taking a first look was enough to know that I still have a lot to learn. Thanks to everybody and cogratulations! Very solid pictures in there, yes…..
Peace
What is the url for the posted photos?
THOMAS…
what a contradiction!! first, you tell me to go to one blog , then you ask me for a story on Sam Abell under “family/friends” !!!
also, i am sure you can see that one blog causes many problems…or maybe not “many problems”, but totally stops the kinds of discussions we had been having…people cannot figure out where to leave their
comments…it is human nature to want to comment on the story on top….so now we have one blog, but four different places for “real time” comments , so what have we really accomplished by going to one????
you ask some good questions that we have all written extensively about in recent months…of course, i will go over all of it again, but just no time now…they require careful thought…but just dig in the archives a bit and you should see most of it answered by me and by others….and i will get back to these topics again soonest…
a story on Sam Abell? I have referred to his books and work many times…i have two of Sam’s prints on my wall…but, i must confess, i do not see Sam as “current”…all of my stories to date about contemporary photographers are photographers currently publishing or exhibiting…that is the whole nature of this forum…to show readers examples of what is happening “now”..obviously Sam makes a great contribution as a teacher…but,i do not see him as being contemporary in his production …i have not seen any new photographs from Sam in at least 15 years… his books are bit “formal” for my taste , but definitely clean landmarks in the world of photography books….the best story about Sam is just to read and see “The Photographic Life”…for sure, Sam should be read and studied and if he and i meet sometime soon i can get some “grist for the mill” and perhaps do a piece…
CATHY…
the “old way” i could easily post four items at once and they would all be at the top and you could “go to the top” whenever you wanted….i did “overpost” to see how it went…but it was the same amount of posting i always did…it just seems like more this way…
WROBERTANGEL…
that was my complaint all along!!! there is no text…almost none of the photogs here even gave me good captions….if i had it, i would use it believe me…
HERVE…
yes, i agree with that…many photogs had an amazing single, but no story or essay or grouping of any kind…i have stated many times there were some great singles…in our exhibiton we will “show it all”
PRESTON…
damn, sorry i missed your birthday party…i heard it was great!!
well amigo, i can never do regular postings…..i just have to do it when i can do it…i am a working photographer first, book publisher, workshop organizer, and a “blogger” somewhere way down the list…this is the best i can do….i do want to do well at whatever i do, so i take this blog very very seriously…however, it falls into the category of serious “hobby”…if it were monetized and i had a whole paid staff we could do much much better….i have refused all advertising so far, so this will remain pretty much the way it is for the near future…
nevertheless, i totally welcome any and all suggestions…
cheers, david
PANOS….
you will love this!! Lou Reed is on our Magnum board, is a very active photographer and curator and friend as well…he did an amazing performance at the photo fest in Arles, France last summer following the rockin crazy hard hard Patti Smith..they both “brought the house down”…
i do not need to tell you to “take a walk on the wild side”…doop di doop di doop doop doop
cheers, david
You gotta keep ‘um seperated! David! It is confusing on where and when to comment… when there’s more than one post the same day, I love that everything is in it’s own category. My 2¢
David, if you guys want more freedom in working and extending your blog’s features… you could start using an open-source blog based on Ruby on Rails Engine, so almost anything is possible, however depending on what is missing in this blog it may not be practical! here is a screencast of a example blog engine… http://typosphere.org/files/typo_ajax.mov
Following on essay and singles, and my own reaction, I am wondering if a strong single photo will not always outlast the finest essay, especially in time, but not just so?
I am tempted to think so, looking at the history of photography, the history of photography criticism, and the lives of so many iconic photos. Also, from what our affect-ive memory selects out of a bunch of pictures printed in any form, sort of a natural selection, survival of the fittest…
Actually, between the great excitement generated by some single shots, also by books, very little extra publishing consideration is given to essays once they passed their publishing date.
I am almost certain this is why many of us struggled with the form. It is truly one belonging to the media profession and David, you did indeed introduce it as the best way to an editor’s consideration.
(I make an exception for series seen on the net, but I believe the net is still merely a means to an end for a photographer, a bigger business card if you will, and more than often used as a derivative way to share and “exist”, from the poster AND from the viewer).
“So what?” you will say. Well, unless you want to become a serious photo-journalist, I think for the same amount of dedication, we can by-pass the essay form, and shoot for fun (making essays maybe!), for singles, and for the elusive or imagined “book”.
I agree Herve, I agree.
¿δυστυχως, και σε μενα Παναγιοτης κρινετε εσεις?
great blog david. as you know.
could do with a lot less noise from posters like Panos who does little to move the discussion about photography forward. back in the day, when soth had his blog, there seemed to be more focused discussion. is there a way or a reason to police the comments a bit? perhaps you could gently suggest that we don’t all need to hear every little thing that pops into everyones’ mind.
yes, i know i will get flamed for this, especially posting under this name…
keep 4 blogs, it’s not hard to check into those to see if there are new posts. and as others have said, readers oughta learn to use RSS in this day and age.
terrible blog david. as you don’t know.
could do with a lot more noise from posters like Panos who do a lot to move the discussion about photography forward. back in the day, when soth had his blog, there seemed to be a less focused discussion. There is no way or a reason to police the comments a bit. perhaps you could harshly suggest that we all need to hear every little thing that pops into everyones’ mind.
no, i don’t know i will get flamed for this, especially posting under this name…
keep 1 blog, it’s not easy to check into those to see if there are new posts. and as others have said, readers shouldn’t learn to use RSS in this day and age.
There much better… my first post was kinda retarted and meant exactly opposite of what I wanted to say… hope this clears things up
¿¿¿¿I don’t get what you’re trying to say????
lurker why hide anyway, david can see every comments accompanying IP Address, so he can see who wrote what… Are you saying we should police the comments?? Ughh There is enough censorship in the world!! We have to listen to Howard Stern on satellite for God’s Sake, will we have to listen to David’s blog there too!!!! Relax, if you don’t like to read certain people’s post ignore them…
ALL: The Symbiotic Convergence, SymCon, is coming together very well on my end. Tom Hyde will be out here way ahead of time to help with preparations. If all goes well, we might have a cool loft in which to do slideshows.
This could really turn into something – annual – big deal, or it could be a fun one shot thing.
We are currently aiming for second half of summer. Still waiting on DAVID to get settled and have time to think about his schedule.
I will be road tripping from Austin (early May) up to the Pine Ridge res in South Dakota and then home. If anyone wants to join in part of the way, let me know.
Michael
Herve,
This is a really interesting point… makes me think there must be some kind of continuum between single photos and essays. I agree, I think single great, iconic photos do sort of boil over into public consciousness more often or to a greater degree than essays, the Che portrait as example.
If the essay is on the other end of the axis, in between, it seems to me, is a large grey area of photographic sequences, pictures that set up rhythms, tensions, and cycles that only sequences could produce… but are not necessarily expository. I would put Frank’s Americans in this category, as an example… an iconic sequence.
And essays, to me, are sequences with very specific form… primarily trying to explain or describe a specific time, place or theme… A good essay is like a John McPhee piece, and a good sequence could be like a Barthelme or Borges story. One explains what was seen and felt, the other proposes an entirely different way to see the world… the audiences, and the cultural realm they exist in are very different for each. Not saying one is better than another, or that they are exclusive categories, just expressing a thought.
We Should have avatars like this… so the conversations here will be more personal…
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2149/2260565599_912e226642_o.jpg
¿ what do you think people ?
for anyone tormented by “schizophrenia”( just like lurker boy)…
I’m glad lurker promotes photo discussions better than anyone…
lurker there is hope..! Look what uncle panos have here for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
V=9OVNiLKjMME
Lurker boy DIAGNOSIS:
hello my dear david!
i’m coming in ny (27 feb-4 march) and i’ll be very happy to meet you. let me know if you’ll be there. a big hug,
chiara (2007 sicily processions workshop).
i like the separate sections.. reads more like a magazine… and you’re right, if it’s all in one place then the moment that a post goes to 2nd or 3rd down the line, it’s as good as gone.. it’s unfortunate but true i think.. the blogosphere by nature is for the short attention span audience..
Herve, let me re-read your comment above…
Im afraid you made a good point up there…
Hmmm!
Herve, let me re-read your comment above…
Im afraid you made a good point up there…
Hmmm!
DAVID:
I have been on the bandwagon for one blog for a long time but I do see now that there are some disadvantages to it. SO…it’s your call…if you like the four “chapters” I will support your decision.
How was dinner?
Did you see my earlier post to you asking about my singles???
Please forgive what Herve called “unfairly putting myself down”
As soon as I have some dinner I want to respond to that…WE have not discussed “photographic self esteem” here…It’s a good topic!
Did EVERYONE go out to dinner with David tonight?
Not one person on this blog all evening. Is that a first?
Have we all said all there is to say? Doubtful with this group :))
Okay, I will continue alone into uncharted territory and as I sleep perhaps others will join in…
TOPIC is “PHOTOGRAPHIC SELF ESTEEM” which is probably not too different from personal self esteem :))
Herve brought it up after my comment about some of my images “not being my best work” and said one should never “put down” their work publicly….I certainly deserve to hear this since I lectured him about not wanting to submit for the assignment due to his age…so thanks Herve!
Some thoughts about this subject…
I have certainly received my share of accolades…
Arthur Ollman, former curator of MOPA (museum of photographic arts,san diego) selected 100 out of 10,000 entries to hang in a show…two were mine.
I won the curators award at another exhibition with 10,000 entries, etc. etc….blah, blah, blah…
Some students in the workshop this weekend told me that my work was “the best in the class” and that they were jealous of me…definitely not the first time I’ve heard that.
So I should feel pretty good about myself, right?
Yes and No…
I fluctuate between thinking I’m doing just fine with my photography and then thinking I’m not doing well at all. Anyone else in this same boat? I can’t be the only one, can I???
I tend not to take the praise seriously but can accept criticism very easily because it’s somehow easier to believe I need to “do better”
Anyone???
My “spiritual” side knows it’s all perfect the way it is and I am excited about the journey and know that there is nothing I can DO to improve or grow as a photographer…it is a process that evolves over time and I only need to relax and enjoy…which is fine with me…. but these other feelings do creep in from time to time. I’m not looking to change anything or make the feelings go away…just wondering if it is a common issue with photographers?
Its good to have self doubt. It keeps you on your toes.
CATHY…
i just had a nice dinner with Alex and Becky….they very much enjoyed the weekend workshop…BUT, when you were asking me how to prepare for it, i assumed it was a “real workshop” in the sense that you would be shooting!!!! too bad, you must must do one of those!!!
oh yes, we will do your singles and the singles of several others tomorrow…sorry this has taken so long, but we are in “over our heads” with so so much stuff going on right now…
LANCE…
yes, i think so… i know all the other blogs are just one blog, but this seems different…if i post more often on “road trips” and just occasionally on the others and refer to new posting on the others, it seems that would be the best…but, we will give this just a bit more time anyway…
sometimes democracy just does not work!!! and surely democracy does not work in publishing!!! over the years , i have seen it in every good magazine and good book published and good movie made…one vision!!! ignore advice!! just do it!!!
RYAN…
sure, why not???
LURKER…
hmmmm, well one thing for sure…i will never “police” the comments..never have , never will….
HERVE…
i DO think perhaps singles outlast everything…never said they did not…however, i do think that the best singles often come from thinking and shooting an essay…
i will bet on this….if i asked everyone to just go shoot a good single, i will bet that the singles would not have been as good as they were with everyone trying to shoot an essay!!
i have written about this before , but will do again , since maybe you forgot…
sleep now, back tomorrow…
cheers, david
DAVID,
I have a feeling you were writing as I was posting and did not see my last post…doesn’t matter.
Regarding the workshop…When asking your advice I also thought it was a “real workshop!” I did not know it didn’t involve shooting until Alex told us at our first meeting. He asked if anyone would feel cheated if we didn’t shoot…that two and a half days is not long enough to include shooting…so I went with it and the way they taught it, with one full day devoted to reviewing work, I thought it was a very good format. Of course I prefer longer shooting workshops but for what it was it was great.
David
is it possible to shoot you a private email,
if so, please send me an email and I will send back to you.
my email address is
wrobertangell@gmail.com
Cathy, I’m in the same boat, same feelings and non confident at all with my work. Even when somebody tell me that they like what I do, I feel ashamed as I fell inside that I should do it a lot more better. How to learn? I don’t know. I feel I am growing, little by little and will keep on trying to get my confidence leting my soul free.
About essays and singles…. I never shoot thinking about an essay before (that is why I did it so badly, jeje) so enytime I take a photo I feel like is unique and without any photo-story around. Now I’m trying to change it. I have some ideas to complete some series but…. not a story. So it will be like a series of singles with a theme in common, but not a story…. that problably will be in a different level.
Cheers
ANA…
please please do not think that an essay means story!!!!! that is a picture story, which is different than an essay….an essay is simply a collection of related pictures which compliment…they do not have to tell a “story”…for some reason this is the hardest thing for people to get!!!
cheers, david
CHIARA….
i will only be here one of those days…i come from Mexico, stay one day march 1, and then go to Norway….it looks like i will miss you probably…too bad….anyway, stay in touch and maybe we can at least have a coffee…
i hope you are well…
ciao, david
quick….wearied today….on “stories”…or “essays” :
“If you want to build a ship, don’t herd people together to collect wood and don’t assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea.”–Saint-Exupéry
“I don’t know anything about music. In my line you don’t have to.”- Elvis Presley
“Few things are harder to put up with than a good example.”- Mark Twain
“Dad, you want to take a walk?”-Dima Black
running
b
Thanks, David, for the answer, though I thouht in terms of outcome. What should be the outocme of what we shoot, when we are not emerging/hopeful professionals (Cathy, that was not about age, but about the fact that I saw the essay project about this, more than emerging photographers, if you recall). There are probably many ways to get some great singles with dedication (mucho shooting or preparation).
Incidentally, and from your own words, A great single may not fit the essay it was shot for, for editorial reasons… Waiting for a life of its own in a different format, maybe.
Cathy, yes, self-doubt is an artist’s fate.
But I think it is a bit different than what you said, which after all, seemed to indicate there was a.. best work from you! ;-)
Few artists speak up their doubts in public. And then, if so, it is rarely to belittle or apologize-about it.
The way I deal with doubt and esteem, is simply to see shots as my children. i know they are not perfect, some other kids might get the prizes, but you know, damned, these are my kids, I made them, i was there when they were conceived, when they came to life, I dressed them up, looked after them when they were a bit unwell, messy, and warts and all, I will defend them in the big world out there.
I am also pro-abortion when it comes to certain kids, I give you that! :-)
Oh, also, I’d like to know what others think (Bob, you especially), but I think we have no business doing photography (or else, most likely), if being asked the question: “if there was to be only one photographer you could remember, which one would it be?”, we do not answer :”me”.
I am my favorite photographer. I hope you guys are too.
Herve,
Never quite thought about like that, but I’d have to say yes, I am my favorite. If for no other reason than that I enjoy doing photography more than looking at it. I enjoy them both, for sure. But I couldn’t live without doing it! (Well, I could, of course. Just really rather not go that way!)
HERVE…
well, maybe we should not think in terms of a professional shoot, but just intense shooting of the personal kind…for some reason, i think the process of thinking in a cohesive manner does help with single iconic photographs….i have many “singles” which i pulled out of stories or essays, never to view the essay in it’s entirety ever again…for example , i have one long lasting single from my whole summer of shooting a story on one group on French teenagers…i would never have “arrived” at this one iconic single had i not been shooting this essay…i would imagine it is all about thinking process or involvement…just as most painters sketch before painting….process…
cheers, david
singles—essays—stories….am loving the discussion and in the process, it is removing many doubts from my mind and making me realize that am on the right path. Herve, want to thank you personally for raising this particular topic.
Herve :))
I’ll bite :))…This will have to be very quick response as I am running to teach….I am absolutely NOT my favorite photographer!…I actually don’t have a favorite photographers, and much of the work by photographers whom I like and admire (including David, by the way whose in many ways couldnt be more different than my own, but also with whom I feel alot of photographic affinity/bond, which might be this: mystery and odd space ;) inspire me and affect and infect me profoundly…
also, i am almost (almost ;) ) NEVER jealous or envious of another photographer, their work, their success, their fame, their achievement, because my struggle with photography is really a completely solitary one: my sense of failure rests with my own work and not in comparison with others…the list of photographers (contemporary and historical) whom I love or admire or who inspired me is pretty substantial and long, and so i could never really say which would constitute my favs…..
BUT…
i will say this: my own work (not important) is the ONLY work that concerns me….I dont think my work is anything, not significant, not critical, not better or less than any other work, but it is the only work WHICH IS NECESSARY to my life…because my photography is a way for me to sing out against the world, to express my relationship with the world, to tell the stories i see (my own and others), to express the simple wonderment and bewitchment and confusion and joy and melancholy that i feel about living and that I feel with others…
in this sense, yes, my own work is my favorite, only in this sense: I feel the same as Diane Arbus, when she wrote:
“I really believe there are things nobody would see if I didn’t photograph them.”
I believe in the importance of ALL photographs, and all photographers (i know this is something u and i have significant divisions about, though I think, maybe you’ve understood the essence of my thinking by your question itself :) )…
my work is the center around which my photographic work centers, just as my wife is the center around which my life gyrates…doesnt mean my work is anything, but it’s a part of me and so, it sits there….
i wouldnt quit photographing because i didnt think my work wasnt important (i dont think it is, but i still believe in its worth), i would quit photographing because it no longer satisfied my need or my addiction or my narcisstic need to express….
i can add more about this later too, if need be :))
but it’s a great question..
cheers
b
i should add that my wife is one of the photographers whom I admire the most…and whose work is one of my favorites…and this adds a cast upon my own relationship to photography and work….
i aint about favorites, but something simpler: about essences…it’s why i respect so much work and so many photographers, because i trust that their work means as much to them as mine does not me, not born of comparison, but born of gesture…
the value of, not the uniqueness of one’s work, but of its essence: that of a person alive and recounting :))..
i was once asked about David’s work, and i said: the reason why i love his work is because it is defined by a simple principle that also engines my own life:
to express that extraordinary moment which is at the center of the mystery of our fleeint appearance….
look at his first b/w book: in the eyes of those faces is the heart of anything that means something to me as a photographer and a person…
cheers
bob
DAVID, your explanation of essay vs story was one of the most useful things I’ve heard. I feel much more comfortable with the essay than with the story. Looking at my work, I think out of my projects, I’ve done only one story, and the rest are essays.
It’s comforting and freeing to understand this difference. Still, the story is an ongoing challenge.
Eugene Smith is often credited with being the father of the photo essay. Newspaper editors seem to talk more about picture stories. The definitions were eluding me.
Thanks,
Michael
ALL….
the writing of bob black is always so all inclusive that i can never comment on it, except in this case to 100% agree that i respect many fine photographers but never feel envy or jealousy..except perhaps in the sense that i might say “damn, wish i had thought of that”….when i see a great body of work i just am so pleased because it adds to the craft…to the very thing i practice…but if i did whatever it is that i do in a vacuum, then there would be no meaning….in my view, great work by other photographers gives meaning to what i do…
cheers, david
DAVID,
“”damn, wish i had thought of that””…
if you are interested in a given subject, or are already on it, and then you see a fine piece of work of someone else about the same thing…
how do you react???
you feel discouraged?
you feel more motivated?
you look for your own different version in terms of format, etc?
you pretend this doesn’t affect you and you “didn’t want to do it anyway”?
all the above?
none?
???
un abrazo
The thought of it came after reading (not really here, though) so many times people saying “so and so is my fav’, and “God, do i wish I had 1/100th of his/her talent”.
Well, first, i know it is disingenuous hyperbole (even though they are probably right!), and secundo, it is about looking at photography, not photography. How in the hell a craft that involves one so physically (walking, traveling, minute details of positionning, etc…) AND mentally, relying precariously on intuition-that’s fleetingness of the highest order- could but resonate so deeply in you that(Yes, using “favorite” is a bit of a shortcut) there is ONLY ONE photographer in the world and it’s you. This is not about best, better or brilliant. It’s about.. Magic!
Bob: to express that extraordinary moment which is at the center of the mystery of our fleeint appearance….
—————————–
That’s a blank, Bob. David is hardly the only one! ;-)
I like David’s photography, because for me it does have impeccable timing (not just a matter of chronometry, BTW), he imbues space with feeling (yes, not the only here too!), and he has what I would call “experience” (not to be confused with knowledge, which helps write, but not take pictures), the type that Joseph Campbell mentionned when asked if he was a believer, answering: “I do not need to believe, I have experience”. It’s a special encompassing humane quality that many “top” photographers, outsiders that they are to the world they shoot, do not have.
David, what about all these photographers claiming that to have 5 or 6 unforgettable at the end of a career would mean a succesfull one. What do you think of such statements comapred to what we are talking here, in short that photography is being, not having?
Looks like I missed out on some fun posts – snowed in and up to my nose in web work here! I hope everyone is doing well.
DM
David McG!!!!!!!, what’s up!
DAVID:
THIS GOES OUT FOR YOU AND PANOS :))
:))
B
and if u r not a fan of Ghost, then here’s only Ahouse:
b
“I cheated myself like I knew I would”…
Apropos of what we are discussing here.
As said by Alex Webb last weekend:
“Don’t pay attention to anyone else…their successes or failures.”
It seems a contradiction…I have self doubt but yes, I am my favorite. I sometimes don’t care for my own work but often I care even less for the work of others! Not that there isn’t a lot of GREAT photography around…contradictions galore.
BOBBBBBBBBBBB…
I’m watching the mtv HIP HOP awards right now….
but ask ME, if i can stay away from your comments… bitch…
Your wife is lucky, little DIMA (hope spelled it right), is lucky to have you as a father… your friends are lucky…
allow me to feel a little lucky too… as a long distance aquaintance …
maybe i’ll get promoted to a real friend sometime too….
CATHY…
what can i say!
Too bad i didnt meet you at Alex’s….
but my good friend RYAN, recorded(in a little digital recorder) everything so i can listen,,,
too… and learn…
Thank you both…
peace…
“I cheated myself like I knew I would”…
Apropos of what we are discussing here…
my beautiful neighbor from Carlsbad CATHY said…
Cathy, David, Amy W, GHOST, thank you much
My boring night all of sudden… is not boring anymore…
I’m visualizing right now…
David, Bob , Cathy and me… and in the middle… the bong…
… I wont stop until i’ll make this happen…
KARDINAL OFFISHAL…
rapper from TORONTO…. god damn BOBB …
I’m all fired up and excited… now
Last thing about BobB…
In my little hip hop world there is one guy…
ONE PHILOSOPHER… ALL ABOUT VALUES, GOOD SPEECH…
NO VIOLENCE… the ONE that “grounds” hip hop…
his name is KRS1… KRS -ONE…
Bob for me is … KRS1….
ok. enough… one more word about Bob and my “homophobia”
will start kicking in…
peace