i am sure there is no doubt among any of us that the most published/ reproduced photographic image of all time is Cuban photographer Alberto Korda’s photograph of macho firebrand Che Guevara…this symbol of revolution and rebellion, is on t-shirts, baseball caps, souvenir flags, is a tatoo parlor favorite, and now the label of an Argentinian winery … i have a feeling this iconic image is most often displayed by those who actually have no idea of the revolutionary idealogy of Argentinian physician Che..but, so be it…an icon nevertheless….
this modern day “revolution cliche” also hangs (or rather hung) on my living room wall….mine is an original, signed, full-frame fiber print given to me by Korda himself after we had both consumed i do not know how many Havana Club mohitos…we went long into the night after the opening of my “Cuba” exhibition in Havana in 2000..Alberto died just a few months after our Havana “all-nighter” , in Paris during the opening of his own retro exhibit…
Alberto Korda was a motivated photographer…..”my main aim was to meet women”, Korda confessed in a New York Times interview towards the end of his life…and his second wife (but not his last) was a top fashion model……hmmmmmm… well, motivations aside, Korda is represented by prestige galleries throughout the world and was Fidel Castro’s personal photographer for 10 years after the revolution…you may see an interesting film by Hector Cruz Sandoval titled “Kordavision” which was released after Alberto’s death..this film and the above photograph are not so popular in Miami where many of the “non- recipients” of the Che/Fidel revolution have lived for the last 40 years…
despite the obvious international recognition of this almost always cropped photograph, Korda received no royalties…in a $50,000 lawsuit settlement against Smirnoff vodka for using this image in an advertising campaign, Korda gave the money to the Cuban Health Care system, saying “Che would have done the same”….and besides, Korda did not have copyright on the photograph anyway…the Revolution “owned” the picture….and everything else too…
Korda once said with regard to the exploitation of this image, “I am categorically against the exploitation of Che’s image, particularly for the promotion of alcohol”….all of the photographers in Castro’s revolution were “idealists” in their zeal…Salas, Corrales, and the more famous Korda…they did, however, “give” their art and their heart to the Revolution….the outcome of “dedication”, as we all know, can never be known…
so, to all of you i ask…would you sacrifice your “art” and your talent for what you considered to be a “worthy cause” ?
Photographs above by Robert Clark (my good neighbor who has given me a bed)
What? No question?
;-)
Yes, on cuba che is everywhere. Ones time i saw a man with very very small swim panty with imeges of che who spread yourselves on his huge balls.
but che was not innocent…
Yes, but is it good wine?
David
Robert Clark made you nice portrait.
HERVE…
sorry companero, i forgot the question..coming now!!
cheers, david
answer- NO
Answer: Depends.
MICHAEL K…
on what??
cheers, david
David,
I guess it depends on what exactly you mean by “sacrifice.” Sacrifice as in never be able to use my photography again? Or just “selling out.”
Depends on what worthy cause. Curing alzheimers? Reversing the effects of global climate destabilization? Or just trying to get some random politician elected? There’s a wide range there on both the sacrifice side and the worthy cause side for me.
my photography is simply an extension of my being alive…and so is only a gesture….
“worthy cause”: a resounding yes: my family…for example….they come above all else, and recently have made decisions that affect directly my own work (the projection project) because my wife and son are more important…
politics: no…per se ….
i would, however, surrender $$ for work, easily, for a cause or belief or person i believe in…i am totally willing to give away what little money i’ve made from the sales of prints (and i have), for things and people who mean more to me than photography…
fortunately che’s life and his sad death meant more than all the stupid tshirts and wine bottles and books and all the rest….
just goes to show…
we dont own squat…not even our selves …
and that’s a good enough perspective to remember ;)))
b
It’s pretty ridiculous to think that the ‘Commandante’ has grown into the social role of ‘fashion icon’. Many people don’t even know about the person on their t-shirt or baseball caps. During my travels in South America I experienced that Che is still very much alive. Because of his early death by execution he did not only become the icon of the communistic revolution but also a symbol for the fight against injustice. He is still embraced by many in South America. I remember my encounter with his iconic image in Havana at the Plaza de la Revolucion. I’ll look into getting Kordavision…thanks for posting;-)
David
how do you judge what Che did? As a brave heroism or as just killing people? Do you think great leader can be absolution?
Revolution higher than life?
New reallity higher than ordinary single human?
che is hero or…?
you think great history and a legend need victims?
anything needs victims?
I always wondered where the copyright flew off to with that picture. It’s been reincarnated in all the most inappropriate forms, from baby clothes to planet of the apes paraphernalia to diamond crusted designer clothes. What fascinated me is how many people I saw in Cuba tattooed with the image. Would that particular image mean so much in Cuba if it hadn’t been misused elsewhere?
Sacrificio…if it’s a worthy cause, absolutely. There’s nothing more I could ask than to create some kind of order in the chaos of our existence.
That said, sacrifice is a hard word to toss around theoretically…give up ownership/copyright for a given cause? That’s a tough one because it ends up relating to $$…and giving that up almost ensures it will not be used how you intended, changing with the values of the time.
BOB…
it has been clear to all of us in the last year , that you DO put family above all else…you mention them in almost every piece…like you, i also put family first, even though i have not been “perfect” in this regard….
i do also totally believe in donating photographs to various charity auctions etc for the good of others….i do this all the time, as i am sure you do too…
whether or not i would lay down my whole life’s work for a political revolution as Korda did is another story….i have never been faced with such a decision, so i honestly have no idea what i would do….
yes, in the larger philosophical scheme of things, we “own” nothing….however, in the “real present” i do think photographers should protect their “art”….if not for their own good, for the benefit of their families , we both so cherish, who will inherit the “legacy”….
cheers, david
David, what is the real picture, cropped or not cropped. Isn’t that one of the greatest statements that it’s known as a photography, the most famous photography of all times maybe, and it’s not the one the photographer (whom no one, except afficionados, gives a hoot about) took. What matters here? the reproduced photo, or the one the photographer took? (David, I hope you answer this one)
Do photos matter or only their use of it? There is such public/market appropriation that does not happen so ubiquitously in other crafts/arts (I think, at least), which, as in this very case, changes the crafted object or work of art.
If you mean photograph for free if I believed in the cause, David – yes.
Susan Meiselas took a photograph of a man throwing a petrol bomb in Nicaragua that also became an iconic and much-copied (even on a box of matches) image.
Then there’s a couple of Capa photographs (death of a Spanish soldier and D-Day landings. Funny how a photograph that is not necessarily the best that a photographer has ever taken becomes iconic.
Best,
Mike.
HERVE….
great question….trouble is i am running…and i really do not have the answer anyway…do you know Richard Prince?? now there is who we should talk about….what happened to Korda’s picture is a version of what Richard Prince does…or not????
of course, i personally only value Korda’s full frame photograph…and, by the way, this is the only one with real value to gallerists, museums, etc etc…
cheers, david
MARCIN…
hmmmm…you know well that these are rhetorical questions that certainly i am not qualified to answer….and the “rightness” of any revolution is subjective and historically has involved many deaths…i mean ALL REVOLUTIONS!!!! revolutionary leaders must certainly BELIEVE that only the “bad people” are dying….
just for the record, it should be noted that the Cuban Revolution against Batista was promoted in the press as a relatively “bloodless revolution”….BUT, i am sure there are many Cubans who would disagree with this…also there are many Cuban exhiles in Florida who originally supported Castro, but then became disillusioned and felt betrayed….
clearly, i am not a judge ….
cheers and peace, david
DAVID :))
totally, 100%, agree :))…my most “political” belief lay in the dedication and Sovereignty of the commitment i make to those around (my family, my close friends, those i care about)…and, believe me, I aint perfect either, really ;))))…when u finally get to meet Marina, she’ll be able to confirm, though i try, i aint the prince i hope to be ;))))))))…
and yes, that’s the only real “value” i place on the photography and the writing: its the only thing, really, i have to give/leave for my son, in the weight of my “archive” my “endowment” my “legacy” :))))…i’ll have so little in the way of material things to leave him, but I hope tha someday, there is some worth there that will make his life and the lives of those around him a little easier….
i should tell u that that’s how i first heard the name “DAH”…for i have lots of friends from cuba as i lived in southern florida for (together) years, and often miss Miami and all those stories alot…both the good and bad…and i was obsessed with Cuba, mostly through the stories my friends and their families told, both the ones who’d left cuba and the ones who’d stay….
by the way, i wanted to give you “paradiso” when we met, but since that might now not be until May, can i recommend, if you havent read it already, the book:
Jose Lezama Lima’ PARADISO:
http://www.amazon.com/Paradiso-Jose-Lezama-Lima/dp/8437602203/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1202674180&sr=1-1
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=D1hi2Pdue_UC&dq=jose+lezama+lima's+paradiso&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=ehHjeBdC51&sig=fh08dADlD-OfVRY67nbCu2D8s8s#PPA24,M1
http://www.glbtq.com/literature/lezamalima_j.html
HUGS…
b
p.s.
Michael mentioned Susan’s photograph of the revolutionary tossing the Molotov cocktail which later was “appropriated” for the revolution (and painted on walls everywhere) during the 1st Nicaraguan war….
http://www.artandperception.com/v01/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/molotovman_susan-meiselas.JPG
She talks about this photo and that phenomenon in very interesting and thoughtful ways in her film:
“Pictures From a Revolution”…
i watched it 2 weeks ago…highly recommend! :))
b
:
i wont tell y’all what she said/thought…as incentive to rent the DVD :)))))
b
David
rhetorical?…. I wish to belive that this question will not rhetorical in future. In XIX century every generals was a hero because they had always right (in their mind). Now it’s time when people can judge leaders goverments ect.
and i hope will more.
I think every revolution leader should do what he must but it should be judged only one way.
I’m asking because many young “rebels witout reason” around the world wearing t-shirt with Che. That’s ok, but they should know that this is colorful t-shirt someone death.
or maybe we should forget about past and everything change on mickey mouse?
i don’t know…
I’m just wondering…
I’m definitively wrong.
life is life.
smile is smile.
peace
incidentally…
apropos of this discussion:
:))))))))))))
http://www.magnumphotos.com/Archive/C.aspx?VP=Mod_ViewBox.ViewBoxZoom_VPage&VBID=2K1HZO6E68IZF&IT=ImageZoom01&PN=1&STM=T&DTTM=Image&SP=Album&IID=2S5RYDO4JC58&SAKL=T&SGBT=T&DT=Image
sorry, here is the DAH photo i was trying to link too:
http://www.magnumphotos.com/Archive/C.aspx?VP=Mod_ViewBox.ViewBoxZoom_VPage&VBID=2K1HZO6E65MUS&IT=ImageZoom01&PN=2&STM=T&DTTM=Image&SP=Search&IID=2S5RYD1Z6EZT&SAKL=T&SGBT=T&DT=Image
I’d rather share than “sacrifice” for causes I believe in.
I met a photographer in New Orleans last weekend working to do a version of this. His name is Devin Meyers and he has started an organization called Fotos For Humanity (fotosforhumanity@gmail.com). His goal is a non-profit photography organization that 1) offers volunteer photography services to any local non-profit, cultural, or community groups who may not otherwise be able to afford professional photography…. 2) share copyright use of the pictures with the groups, and 3) try to use the pictures (sales, promotion, etc.) to support the cultural groups you see inside the pictures.
During Mardi Gras Devin had unprecedented access to the black feather tribe, actually spending the night with them while they prepared for ‘battle”. Devin has given copies of the images to the tribe and he will use proceeds from photo-sales to subsidize the feathers, beads, and stones they will use on their suits for next year… One unique perspective on sacrifice/ sharing in photography.
David; Yes i would give up the personal “art” to work for a cause I believe in, and in some ways are attempting to do just that.
Even though I have only just gone fulltime, the local mags I work with are in some ways stepping stones to enable me to pursue personal projects. These projects mostly focus on causes I believe in.
I found that as I’ve got older I’ve become more interested in different causes. I’d also like to think that whatever small amount of talent I have, may in some way benefit someone else.
I’m in a different space to Bob though, as without having any kids etc. I feel that I want to put my energies into helping out someone else. I suppose to be honest, ego must be a part of that too.
But your art comes into it to, as you want to do your best to do good work that reflects your ideals.
When you mention photographing for a cause, the doco “Vietnam’s Unseen War” springs to mind. Those North Vietnamese photographers put themselves through hell to record their particular vision of the war.
As far as I am concerned, I know I’ll never make a fortune pursuing personal humanitarian projects, but it will satisfy the soul. As long as I can keep a roof over my head then that’s about all I need!
I don’t want to look back in twenty years and say “I wish I’d done that”. And as for money; the old saying “There are no pockets in your funeral shroud” rings true too…
Cheers every one.
KELLY….
now that is one good idea…we should all think of more like it…
ROSS…
good man…selfless…
ALL…
i must say that at Magnum, and we are a business with rent and staff to pay, i do feel very proud that we gave our profits (over 1.5 million dollars) to the victims of the 9/11 tragedy from the sales of our collective book on the subject…
cheers, david
I’m always amazed how people like James Nachtwey, Don McCullin etc have been able to keep going at their work without becoming disenchanted.
It must be so hard not to feel as though you are beating your head against a brick wall as the death/killing seems to continue…
BOB…
i just pulled that picture “outside”…thanks for the reminder….
cheers, david
david :)))))
cool, happy to help ;)))…i gotta like weird enclopedic reminder for 2 things:
1) photographs
2) books
3) useless trivia ;))))
running
b
that’s encyclopedic, not enclopedi ;))…gotta get off the compter tube before my eyes fry ;))
running
b
David
9/11 it was the same revolution as every revolutions and war before. Someone have ideals, purpose, reasons someone is victim of this ideals.
I’m naive probably…
death is death
smile is smile.
good night and good luck…
Would I give a photo to a cause I believed in? Sure, why not? Am I happy that Che’s image is being used by the imperialist running capitalist dogs as a trademark to sell everything under the sun? You bet; it couldn’t have happened to a nicer murderous totalitarian thug. He did photograph well, I’ll give the man that; between Korda’s iconic image and Rene Burri’s pic of him with the cigar stuffed in his face the man knew how to look good for the camera, no two ways about it.
Ross, read Don McCullin’s book Unreasonable Behaviour. At first he photographed to become “famous” or at least to “prove himself”. Later he paid the price. I admire and respect him.
Best,
Mike.
Hi Michael; I have two copies of Unreasonable Behaviour! One hardback that never leaves home, the other a paperback I throw in the pack etc to read when I’m away..
I admire and respect him too! It never fails to amaze me what situations he put himself into to highlight a particular injustice etc.
The chapter where he describes being held in one of Idi Amin’s jails sends shivers up my spine.
By the way; I just purchased his latest book “In England”, it’s a stunner..
Cheers
Well, I should say YES, as that is what I’m exactly doing right now. A big effort, so much work, sleepless nights and a lot of energy just for a “good cause” involved with this continent that stole my heart: Africa.
I do think that the most important thing in our lifes is to feel good inside. Doing it makes me feel good and alive, so I will keep on doing it, even if I’m poor. In a different way, it makes me rich.
;-)
DAVID
Can you explain what you mean by “Korda laid down his whole life’s work for a political revolution”? On what sense did he do this? I’m not clear..
I’ve always felt that if an act is selfless, there is no sacrifice, that they are diametrical opposites by nature.
You missed a wing ding last night chez Preston..I’m still not awake.
As someone who grew up in a communist country, let me say I hate Che and what he tried to do. And I hate Castro. David has been to Cuba many times, so I hope this doesnt offend him:) Che was a good socialist. He killed people in the name of his ideology, which fits quite well into the general M.O. of socialist revolutionaries..starting with Lenin. Give Chavez a little time and a few more failed referendi and you will see him follow Lenin’s, Stalin’s, Che’s, Mao’s, Castro’s example. No way is Chavez going out quietly or voluntarily.
Speaking about the issue raised by David though, I think there had to be passion to make photography good. It doesnt matter that the passion is for something evil or something good, passion has to be there. Its more important than the superficialities of print qualities and compositions, etc bla bla bla.
One of my nightime Cardiff shots ended up as an album cover… full profits of the album went to Cancer Research UK, so I guess that, well, even the most unexpected can happen in this sense…
Yes, of course, you have to be true to yourself if you want to keep friends and free beers flowing.
To me, art and talent seems cyclic and renewable… using them for any worthy cause wouldn’t diminish either one… But sacrificing art for ideology redefines it, transforming art into propaganda, or advertising… Good propaganda can be good art, but they are not the same thing, the critical apparatus has been, sometimes subtly, switched. Another facet of context.
I think the Che portrait is so popular because it is the best advertising photo ever. It sells revolution (in the general sense) better than a picture of Colonel Sanders sells chicken.
here in the philippines his image is also everywhere, from shirts to bags to jeepneys (i.e. public utility vehicles). and very few people actually know who he is (was). in fact, a friend of mine, pointing at che’s face, once asked a group of kids if they knew who he was. and they answered confidently: a rock star
ERICA…
in the sense that Korda allowed the Revolution (the government) to “own” his lifetime of creative work..this is a concept i cannot identify with….i want revolution now in my country, but i would not give away copyright of my photographs for it!!! BUT , i would donate prints for a cause that would support it…two different things…..but, i do think Korda did this in his own mind without “sacrifice”….he was not a prisoner of the revolution, he was part of it, helped to create it, and loved it….
cheers, david
It used to be very uncool to go after Che, but now thanks to 89 (19.., not 17), our friend here and elsewhere who have LIVED, with their families, what the reality was behind the ideology, can attest that it was not to realize the individual, but to crush it. Che was but a link that led to such infathomable murderers as Pol Pot and Kim Jung II.
Che couldn’t sell his brand of revolution (most of all, not even to Castro the realist) to change the world, and instead has become almost a brand name, with nary a wearer of it knowing squat about who he was, except of course, a…Che-x symbol! :-)
HERVE, RAFAL….
i must respect your feelings and i do…you lived it…i did not…
for three years i listened to both sides of the “Cuba story”…..both sides equally impassioned, and both sides RIGHT….
the “revolutionaries” citing their desire to rid Cuba of Batista/Mafia organized gambling, prostitution etc. at the expense of the “underclass” and citing their ability to give even the rural class electricity, medical care and a first class education and, for example, support the best ballet dancers and athletes in the world…of course, the Miami exhiles side is that not all Cubans were into organized crime and that 90% of the families who lost their homes and their land and forced to move off the island were just hard working professionals who had built up property and wealth the old fashioned way..they earned it.
in the end, i do not know who is RIGHT…i was not involved…it was not my revolution, not my land and culture, nor did my family give up any property etc etc…so, i have no stake ..therefore no voice…my opinion does not count and i do not give my opinion..i have no RIGHT..
all i know is that i love the Cuban people..their energy, spirit, creativity and generousity are second to none..THAT is all i ever wanted to show or to communicate…
i set up this post however, not to get into political issues, but simply to address “ownership” and “copyright” for artists…if we go into politics, we will never get out of here!!!
cheers, david
Michael Kirchner said:
“I guess it depends on what exactly you mean by “sacrifice.” Sacrifice as in never be able to use my photography again? Or just “selling out.”
Depends on what worthy cause. Curing alzheimers? Reversing the effects of global climate destabilization? Or just trying to get some random politician elected? There’s a wide range there on both the sacrifice side and the worthy cause side for me.”
I agree. It depends on the sacrifice.
DAVID SAID:
“i must say that at Magnum, and we are a business with rent and staff to pay, i do feel very proud that we gave our profits (over 1.5 million dollars) to the victims of the 9/11 tragedy from the sales of our collective book on the subject…”
I think that this is a great way of contributing, because at the same time it is not like giving your work away. You are still in control over what happenes to your pictures.
I almost did a huge mistake in this respect with my Kenya-pictures. I do not really want to go too much into detail here in this open blog, because it is still something that is kind of pending in a way, but I cancelled my Cuba-trip and instead went to Kenya with the idea of making pictures for a ngo and to give them away, so other people could use them as they thought would be best for the organisation in question.
The point is, and I fortunately found out extremely fast, that they are not aware of what this “present” means and thus are unable to respect the responsabilities that come with it, too. I very quickly changed my plans – also to stay safe myself – and was careful not to give them any data at all. Instead of that I did editions, which were shown, sold etc. and donated the money.
Do not get me wrong: I am still marvelled at the project and what they are managing with so little, otherwise I would not have helped after what I experienced. I KNOW the wrong handling from their side came out of ignorance. But even after explaining over and over, I did not see any improvement in the way they dealt with the matter, so I withdrew my original offer and replaced it with another, that could not do me or anyone else involved any harm.
And I would never do it differently again!
Even though, of course, I am no famous fotografer and do not manage to gather much money through my sells… So it is. Nevertheless I am happy to help on this way and these marvellous kenyan people I got to know, just need so much, to be able to help themselves, that even my little aid is highly appreciated. By the way, it goes directly into health and education.
They are having a rough time there at the moment. I have not been able to reach them lately. But yesterday, as David was posting this, I was just preparing another set of postcard-editions so I could finally start to sell over my website. They are selling too in the gallery that is hosting my present show.
I will go on with these little things. Without giving any rights away. And I cannot even say that it is not egoistic, because it just makes me feel so much better! …
Ah, I see, I didn’t realize they owned/managed the images. So in that regard, would I be willing to give everything over..I guess it would come down to feeling a kinship. I totally understand giving archives to a library or such on death because of a belief that they are entrusted to someone (in the larger sense) who will respect the work. But during life? I suppose so if that same kinship was there along with a belief that it was relevant to do so, and finances allowed..
Dear David
I find it very difficult to answer your question, I won’t even try.
But I would like to put the subject of Korda and he’s Che image into another perspective. Korda and the Cuban adminstation didn’t spread the image of Che all over the world as a revolutionary icon.
Somebody else took care of that and most likely made a lot of money.
I visited Korda in Havana in 1993, to ask him what happened with the image.
You can read my short account here:
http://www.pix.dk/korda2.htm
I hope, I am not spoiling things here.
Michael
Thanks for this fragment of information, Michael, it was really interesting to read!
By the way (just a little addition to make search easye, as I am sure you’ll try to look up the countries as I just did)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention_for_the_Protection_of_Literary_and_Artistic_Works
http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ShowResults.jsp?lang=en&treaty_id=15
The Berne Convention seems to be in force in Cuba since 1997 …
Lassal, you are right. Cuba has signed the convention by now.
But back in 1967, Cuba was violating the rights of intellectual property, by copying anything they needed, like textbooks in order to educate the Cuban population.
So in that sence, all cubans saccrified their rights, to violate the rights of others.
I don’t blame anybody here. Cuba has been in a very difficult and delicate situation since the revolution.
MICHAEL said
“So in that sence, all cubans saccrified their rights, to violate the rights of others.”
That is a great statement, I think. Could I quote you on my website sometime in the future? I have a post coming up, where this could fit extremely well.
Apart from that … I really like the uncropped version of that picture so much more than the cropped one …