i certainly hope everyone has been having fun… either partying last night or relaxing all day today….while you have been playing , i have been working!! or should i say, suffering over decisions…..about your work!!
ok, here is how it shakes down (so far)…there are some essays still under question or without any identifiable caption information….i have sent emails to some photographers who just have not replied…i will give them a bit more time….
there are approximately 30 essays or partial essays that i will put up for review on the new website due this week kindly supported by LiveBooks….and perhaps 40 strong singles which includes some very nice work from many of you…..i will also , as promised, give reviews by private email to those who so seek…some of you just need just the right little kick to take you to your "next step"….many of you are so so close…..
as i hope all of you remember, the purpose of this excercise was to see if our audience here on the forum could "produce" within a given time frame: july 15 – novermber 15 2007 …. i sadly had to eliminate several terrific essays which did not fall within that time zone…the reason for this short time period was simple….to secure funding for future "assignments" for some of you for the future, we needed to see how well this audience could respond in this fashion…this is, of course, not the only way nor perhaps even the best way to judge a photographer…but, it is not a bad place to start and a point that resonates loud and clear with most magazine editors and other funders …
i left the subject matter and style of work up to this audience….and we certainly will see the variety this freedom provided….
the essayist who will receive the first grant i have ever given (but not the last) and the first under the new Magnum Cultural Foundation was chosen from the following best essayists:
KEVIN GERMAN, ERICA MCDONALD, BRENDAN HOFFMAN, ANDREW SULLIVAN, KATIA ROBERTS, BOB BLACK, KYUNGHEE LEE, ERIC ESPINOSA, CRISTINA FARAMO, KELLY LYNN JAMES, CHRIS BICKFORD, LANCE ROSENFIELD, NATAN MOSS, MARCIN LUCZKOWSKI, JONI KARANKA , ALEKSANDER NOWAK AND ALEX RESHUAN…
all of these essayists will be shown soonest on the new website (i am waiting just as you!!)…hopefully a traveling exhibit of this work and perhaps hard copy publication will also result from our efforts…to this end i am working…
the recipient of the first funding ($5,000.) under the David Alan Harvey Fund for Emerging Photographers is:
SEAN GALLAGHER
below are a few photographs from Sean’s strong essay on the desertification of China’s Western Gansu Province….the fast moving desert is literally swallowing up farmland and communities and is ever growing due to bad land management and global warming…i saw this essay as stylistically powerful and journalistically relevant….and worthy of more financial support to keep Sean continuing on this significant body of work…
A young girl stands before a man-made lake in front of encroaching sand dunes.
A lone corn plant in a field next to large sand dunes.
Huge sand dunes slowly creep onto arable farmland.
A camel walks past a pile of recently forested logs. Deforestation is the main cause of desertification.
A farmer sells watermelons to passing tourists. Watermelons consume massive amounts of water during growth. Overcultivation of this fruit leads to the draining of water from land, contributing to desertification.
has been present for over 2000 years. Recently however, as water is
mis-used by the public and local industry, the water level is slowly
dropping to dangerously low levels.
Two women climb a sand dune that is slowly creeping into arable farmland.
As tourists fly above in motorized hang gliders, below them the desert continues to move, swallowing everything in its path, including the graves of past local residents.
I have a friend, an artist, who has employed photography as a medium of late in documenting his works… thus making his photography “documentary” in the purest form, not so?
(You can read more on him here: http://www.rookegallery.com/ )
Local photographers seemed irked that a painter was gaining such recognition for his work with a camera, but rather than challenge him on a photographic level, they felt the need (at a book launch he had been asked to present some of his work at) to question him as to where art entered into his approach… I was actually bored with their wanking about and wandering around the background reading John Berger (the event was in a bookshop) when someone actually asked him: “What makes your work art?”
His reply: “Because I say it is.”
Surely that, along with Anderson’s views on leaving it up to the critics, is all that needs to be said on the matter…
That, and Soth’s interview with Papageorge (http://alecsoth.com/blog/2007/07/12/papageorge-interview/)
“Don’t speak to me of the document; I don’t really believe in it, particularly now. A picture’s not the world, but a new thing.”
Oh shit, here we go again?
L.
Oh, and congrats Sean, and all the other “finalists.”
DAVID: This is me adding my name to the potential feedback list, if I may.
Ta,
L.
More music people, more music… :)
Enjoyed Max’s fine song selection over my 2pm breakfast bowl of cerial. It’s raining in New Mexico too but maybe will snow soon.
Decided to get in on the “art” discussion but now after reading Akaky’s Sunday “sermon”
maybe I will just “slightly animated slow mosey”… A RIOT!!!… over to the sofa and veg out for a while and ponder the meaning of life…
Nevermind…let’s talk art.
Herve mentioned the discussion about “Is it or is it not” on the FRIENDS section of this blog regarding Laura. Check out her website and read what she has to say…
As far as Nachtwey. I agree with what’s already been mentioned about no one wants to look at an ugly photo (well that’s my interpretation at least and who is to say what ugly is)… I just wanted to add what I have heard Nachtwey himself say on the subject and that is that unless he makes it something people will want to look at, something that “opens their hearts,” who will take notice of the atrocities he is trying to show the world and bear witness to?
Just saw David’s post today, I’m a bit late and it’s a long read, but congrats to all the ones who made the cut :-) Beyond the money for Sean, I hope this recognition of their work in general help them achieve better exposure and surely, boost their own “confidence”. I’m really looking forward to the new site to discover all essays.
Congratulations also to David to have given his time and talent so generously to promote talented photographers :-)
And as a personal note to David, whenever you have some time, a couple of quick comments on my own submission would be greatly appreciated :-)
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL :-)
RAFAL SAID:
Mike,
hey man, dont you know, Panos is a risk taker..he’s up there with Nachtwey! I mean seriously he risked his life….Robbie Krieger, dont you know ? Who do you think wrote the guitar for the Riders on the Storm? And all those dogs, Is this hip-hop from L.A.
question ?? Who killed 2pac? West coast or East ???
Posted by: Rafal Pruszynski | January 06, 2008 at 06:12 AM
Panos says:
Rafal thank you for the comments…I love Hip-Hop a lot…maybe not as much…as you do…but i do like it a lot…Especially Wu Tan Clan lyrics…Now about West or East…tough question brother…
Now comparing me with Nachtwey…come on man…too much love all of a sudden ??? What happen???
Harry,
That shifts the issue from definition of “art” to the definition or “artist”, but it does, IMO, get us a step closer to what seems to me to be the heart of the issue: which is the artistic/creative process, and how (and why) one undertakes it. Whether motivated by and in pursuit of a personal vision vs. a external rationale/need…
I do not, personally, care whether one calls themselves an artist or a documentarian, or a journalist, or…, if their search truly is for an individual vision of the world and reality. And this can — and does — apply to any sort of photographer or practitioner of any art form. The rest seems like labels to me.
Running, as BB would say.
- Giancarlo
MICHAEL KIRCHER SAID:
Hey Panos… checked your site. Question… how to say “lame” in Greek?
Posted by: mike | January 06, 2008 at 05:22 AM
Just for the record…that “mike” above is NOT me. I do not do the trash peoples work
Posted by: Michael Kircher | January 06, 2008 at 08:14 AM
Panos says:
I do not judge people of what they SMOKE!!!
I judge them of not SHARING with the rest of us!
Peace from L.A….
…what???…from L.A?
You might like this one Cathy:
Thankyou Mr. Harvey for this opportunity of reviewing our photographs. You had mentioned that there were several good submissions that had unfortunately missed the deadline. I was just curious if my photographs were one of them because I uploaded my submission late on Dec. 15th here in Vancoouver. Perhaps because of time zone differences, they were not received or considered past the deadline. If so that is fine. Would still appreciate your thoughts on my submission.
Cheers,
Gabor
L, this time SUMS it all UP:
“What makes your work art?”
His reply: “Because I say it is.”
Surely that, along with Anderson’s views on leaving it up to the critics, is all that needs to be said on the matter…
That, and Soth’s interview with Papageorge (http://alecsoth.com/blog/2007/07/12/papageorge-interview/)
“Don’t speak to me of the document; I don’t really believe in it, particularly now. A picture’s not the world, but a new thing.”
Oh shit, here we go again?
L.
CATHY SAID:
“As far as Nachtwey. I agree with what’s already been mentioned about no one wants to look at an UGLY photo (well that’s my interpretation at least and WHO is to say what ugly is)…
panos’s answer to the question about WHO??? : “Me…”
David,
It is now time that you announce the launch of the web site in a new post. Otherwise the counter will soon reach 400…
pierre yves racine, beauitful – I know it already but thanks for the reminder ;-)
one for you:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=94dkiKOa6kk
and maybe another one:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=n6CH8UAHMqY ;-) (…great jazz from Poland, BTW…)
I reckon the final word belongs to these fulla’s!
We are all part of the songlines….
Kazakshtanis against Borat…
YOLNGU….that’s dope…. i never seen this dance before….africa rules…
honestly thank you Lisa H.
cool choice!
D.Ukaleb
Nothing wrong with the 400 & up posts…dont you think…?
only porn sites can break records like that..i have personal proof…
anyways…David A H, is as interesting -and i m glad to say it- as POPULAR as EVER…cooooooooollllll!!!!!!!
That’s success & recognition “before”….”way before” death…is way COOL,
because im tired of artists that “expire” before their deserved recognition…(Basquiat effect) …
I’m afraid that sometimes…what Buddha said and what should happen …dont really match…although i want to!
Peace
GRAINY HANDS here:
(If you ever asked yourself about ?Grainy hands…click below:
http://blog.panosfotografia.com/
I wonder whatever happened to OCTAVIOS…the person that originally brought the flame on…
Is he such another great greek philosopher,the ultimate judge or what?
Er Panos, not Africa ruling, Australia…
The Yolngu are from the Northern Territory, in the vicinity of Arnhem Land. These black fulla’s have been around for a bit longer than your mob (at least 60,000 years) but obviously enjoy the refined tastes of the Greek civilization as well!
Well it does seem that music has a calming effect, eh!
Laughing… Lisa!
jesus Lisa … hit us up with more knowledge…
LISA SAID:
“Well it does seem that music has a calming effect, eh!
… Lisa!”
Posted by: lisa Hogben | January 06, 2008 at 10:06 PM
panos says:
…I’m glad you started “feeling it” Lisa…and it really was Australia…which im sorry…australia doesnt rule…or maybe it does…Think of Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds….
well…you be the judge…
Peace Lisa
David,
I’m sure you’ve already got me on the “critique” list…if not please add me. Thanks.
Aleksander
Masz swietne niezwykłe zdjęcia, ale 800 to trochę za duzo. Musisz zrobić portfolio z setki najwyżej, posegregowane. Masz tam takie perelki!!! Aż szkoda w tym tłumie. Najwyższy poziom, podziwiam…
Dziekuje Marcin! – wiem o tym, ale PAD nie ma służyć za portfolio, jest trochę czymś innym, powiedzmy “projektem motywacyjnym”, takim “work-in-progress” :-) A za prawdziwe portfolio jakoś ciągle nie mogę się zabrać, chociaż ciągle w planach… ;-)
To Aleksander :
Thanks for the great links : I really like Tomasz Stanko ! I have one cd at home and it’s “sick” jazz, at times !
Actually, I was lucky enough to see Marcin Wasilewski trio (Stanko 4tet without Stanko) in Budapest 2 years ago and it was such a great concert !!
Do you know Marc Ducret (amazing french composer and guitar player) ?
How about Louis Sclavis ? (cds with big booklets of photos by Guy Le Querrec)
It’s off topic, sorry, but musical improvisation and photography are so strongly linked…….
Now congrats again for your pictures !
Thanks Pierre, I’ll try to find out something about them once I get back home :-)
Lisa,
We come from a land down under,
where women groan
and men chunder!
Just surfacing again after a rap accross the knuckles!
Congratulations Sean, you have a great set of pics there and am looking to see how you use $5000.00 of free money! Why not blog the process?
There could be some real time input from your legion of fans from the previous posts I’m sure they have a better idea of how to take photos like you do than you do!
Get my meaning?
This whole thing is not about most of the bullshit I have read on this thread ,it’s about takin pictures taking names, taking the bloody piss for chrissake!
Uncle Dave Thanks again for getting this up, Sean ,Go Hard!
Cheers Glenn
If you wonder what I’ve been up to lately:
Probably the funniest metal video (with a fanmade video of Manowar) that I’ve ever seen. The guitar solo with a hand covered in plaster is just too much.
First Sorry It’s taken so long to respond…
Panos said -
‘I wonder whatever happened to OCTAVIOS…the person that originally brought the flame on…
Is he such another great greek philosopher,the ultimate judge or what?’
1st Panos, I didn’t bring any flame, I think people brought that out themselves after me expressing some honest opinions on the subject, but that is neither here nor there… I think the topic has been discussed exhaustively for the past couple of days, and there is simply nothing more to say… I think I’ve said my piece and others have said their respective piece… As for being a Greek philosopher… I would probably be playing for the German philosophers as Monty Python had it in that classic bit against the Greeks!!!
Now I don’t want to start any more ‘flames’ as you put it, but I have been preparing a new website myself, as well as photographing here and there, but I have also been biting my tongue on a couple of posts I have read from you and other ‘contributers’ as David put it. Street Photography is not art was probably the most retarted thing I read in the past couple of days!! I guess my Magnum book I got for Christmas was waste of someones money!!!!!
Panos the only thing I can say to you is you definitely need to cut back and think before posting, I have read some funny stuff but honestly I am getting tired of reading a sentence here and a sentence there. Nice work on some photos you posted lately to your blog, but please, please let us breathe!!!! My breath is starting to smell like falafel and Gyros!!!!
David commented earlier that I had not submitted anything… I must not be all here or I simply don’t know how to do the FTP thing… I swear on the life of my dog Kane… I sent in photos… maybe ‘Panos the Greek philosopher’ can help me next time… Panos hope this doesn’t read to harshly as I enjoy your post as well… don’t get me wrong
Oh One more thing I was amazed by your work and honestly it’s what made me rethink the whole web blog and website thing to start being more active
Aleksander Nowak !! If you would like to talk to me please email me!!!
williamoctavios@yahoo.com
Let’s just cut each other some slack. We have a lot of international readers and writers and some sentences just don’t translate well or come across the way they were meant to.
you know Octo… You could be right again..especially about the gyros smell…hahaha…
You are right on your suggestion of blogging,posting less and Shoot more…I should put my camera where the gyros usually goes and shoot shoot without speaking eating or cursing… I hear you …no more philosophy( by the way the Greek team beat the Germans 1-0 …Archimedes was the scorer… It was the same game that Nietzsche got the red card if you can recall… Good all days…
now about your new Agony… Who said that street photography is not art,??
How about street music or rap is not art???
PANOS: Is not all music street music, at one time or another?
By the way, just shat myself reading Octavios’s post…
DAVID: Did you receive anything from a Liam Lynch? Like Octo, I too have had problems with FTP’ing from a Mac… I am used to simply sending things direct to my own server from my PC days and simply carried that system across when I switched to Mac; got a little lost when uploading at first. Am now somewhat nervous.
Though I would not have gained a footing in a finalists, given that my essays definitely leant towards the esoteric and “lacking in captions” side, I would certainly have liked to get some feedback… did you ever receive anything to give feedback on, even?
As we say in South Africa: Cyberduck se poes!
L.
I never said street photography is not art! That’s exactly the opposite of what I’m trying to say, of course street photography is art!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here is the Monty Python video I’m talking about http://youtube.com/watch?v=cGRXF4t_nHI
Ryan my apologies for putting your website in under my name I was trying to cut and paste my website and inadvertanly put yours in my name… Thanx for the help on the FTP, Liam why don’t you email ryan he’s pretty technical on that stuff!!!
For anyone who cares my new blog will be http://octavioswilliam.blogspot.com/
Check it out next week!!!
Octo, I am not sure where you saw anyone wrote there is no art in street photography. The question was not “what photography is art?” (if the label has to matter that much), but what is IYO, art photography?
Now, I know that some here may think that photography is photography, labelings are but a vain thing. Yes, when you have said that, unless you decide that is all there is to say, you still have to account for all kind of different choices and approaches photographers affect with their cameras.
Nachtwey does not exhibit or publish essays on blooming flowers, you may decide to write a whole book on what he does making sure you never use any sort of labeling as if doing so was the worse evil that happened in the history of human discourse, or you can think that using labels at time (say, war photographer?) does not mean writing anything in marble or induce debilitation in the reader (and yourself).
Rene is right, cut some slack, but especially, make sure what is someone replying to. The interest in what constitutes art photography IN YOUR OPINION is perfectly valid, we understand the responses can cover the whole gamut, from denying there ever was such thing to claiming it is quite differentiated from what a street photographer does….Even if this last one is a great artist whose “art” will endure..
Capice?
OCTAVIOS…
i looked again at the Digital Railroad upload site….i did see your name, but no actual photos uploaded…
LIAM….
i do have photographs from you…and you have a couple of very nice singles which i plan to showcase soonest….
GLENN…
some nice pictures from you which will also been shown soonest…perhaps not quite enough for an “essay look”, but your best are out on the “leading edge”….
cheers, david
cheers,
Octavios xOMG, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for that skit link genius!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Octavios,
Now that David has started a new thread no one will get to see the soccer match…which is wonderful. Please post it again in the new thread so it can be seen and enjoyed…plus it’s appropriate to the new post. Thanks!
anxious to see the rest of the work. great motivation for the photographers in general, yes yes yes! and the winer is the Photography and this Stories who are now under the light for the world to see :)
anxious to see the rest of the work. great motivation for the photographers in general, yes yes yes! and the winer is the Photography and this Stories who are now under the light for the world to see :)
anxious to see the rest of the work. great motivation for the photographers in general, yes yes yes! and the winer is the Photography and this Stories who are now under the light for the world to see :)
anxious to see the rest of the work. great motivation for the photographers in general, yes yes yes! and the winer is the Photography and this Stories who are now under the light for the world to see :)
CATHY…
i stay on the last two or three posts always….i think most people do …anyway, good suggestion…i will be getting to a review of your work soonest…..
cheers, david
Octavio,
You can call me a “retard”, I couldn’t care less… Actually I even enjoy it quite a lot. Btw this word seems fashionable these days (see Panos’ posts). But Herve seems to have understood my post better than you. What I was saying is essentially:
1) “Art” is a word or, if you prefer, a concept, and we can debate endlessly about what it is, like middle ages philosophers about the various theological problems of their times. More recently, this problem has been addressed by many many people including Marcel Duchamp and the Dadaistes, or (sorry once again for my French references) the French “artist” Benjamin Vautier (aka Ben). And those who steal Duchamp’s urinals in museums or those who pee on them can legitimately call themselves artists. And if these people are artists, then street photographers should be artists too, otherwise it would be too unfair.
So I prefer to leave this debate to people who can write PhD theses and then become scholars and make a living of it (and btw Ben also managed to make quite a lot of money with his art and that without becoming a University professor and having to struggle to get a tenure).
2) I said that although it is not always clear cut, I see the distinction between photography that is staged and that that is not, or more or less equivalently the fiction/non fiction distinction as more “useful” or “tractable”, for at least we have a better idea of what we are talking about.
3) Let’s now try a syllogism.
Major: People who claim that street photography is not art are retarded.
Minor: Some of the best street photographers claim that street photography is not art.
Conclusion: Some of the most famous street photographers are retarded.
Unfortunately not all retarded people do great street photography, otherwise I would be a great street photographer.
I value “non fiction” photography more than everything else for I think than reality, for the better and for the worse, is always beyond fiction.
Ok, enough about that.
Panos,
I have nothing against the 400 posts and I was just trying to increment the counter to make it reach the 400 faster, with yet another useless post. And BTW my name is Ukaleq and not Ukaleb.
Akaky,
Since you seem to have a liking for both completely off topic posts and moustaches, here is a link to an interesting moustache that you might want to check:
http://www.boursorama.com/infos/actualites/detail_actu_marches.phtml?&news=4996249
A French version of John Bolton? LoL
David U,
Street photography and art… three names: HCB, Garry Winogrand, Lee Friedlander. And I’n not counting Robert Frank and William Klein. As far as I’m concerned the case is closed! ;)
Giancarlo
PS; are we at 400 yet?
@David U.: My apologies for the off topic thing; digression from the subject at hand is one of the things I do best and one of the things I like least. I’m not sure why I do this, but it has been a constant with me for years. As to the other things, yes, the gentleman in question is interestingly mustachioed; I wonder if he does Inspector Clemenceau impressions on the side.
Eggleston…
“i am a photographer, i take pictures, thats what we do”
…..
I can see, as a painter of course, Picasso (whom I otherwise appreciate enormously) saying this from his bourgeois digs in Paris, while the gestapo picked up jews all around the city to send them to their horrible deaths.
The only question an “artist” would ever have to answer to him or herself, to others too if they wish, but in deeds then not in words, is not what is the name of what I am doing but “what am I doing?”.
That’s where the fight is.
IMO.
“”Another thing: The black and white enhancements are ok but they dont give me a “real” feeling…No depth in the tones…”"
absolutly right what Pano says. the pictures are grey in grey, not black and white.
HERVE: For me, the last two things you mention can be one and the same… semantics, perhaps, but when I registered a site, I was asked “Why Liam-Lynch-PhotographER and not Liam-Lynch-PhotographY?”
I could only think to say that “Photography” was something “to do”… whereas “Photographer” was something “to be”…
Perhaps “art/ist” is something you are, not something you do, and thereafter debate becomes irrelevant.
STEFAN: I hear what you and Panos say, but much the same could be said of Eugene Richards’s printing, or some of Larry Towell’s book repro… I too have printed professionally for people as Panos has, and on this side of the planet, we lean more towards the zonal side of things than the harsher contrasts; at least, that is how I see it.
End of the day, it is a matter of taste, and black and white is NOT necessarily made up of 100% and 0% values.
Sean’s work already looks better on his site than here… quite often, B&W images appear to lose sharpness and also a sense of defined tonal range when their size is altered, and they are resized as JPEGS.
L.