today is the deadline for uploads to this site for our collaborative experiment ……michael courvoisier, who is handling all of the organization of your work will now be joining me in Bangkok as the tech manager for the workshop here….however, we will be able to start seriously looking at your entries soonest….as you know, the $5000. stipend for one of you will be announced and awarded by december 15, 2007….we should have our new web design also in place by the time i want to publish your work…i do look forward to seeing what so many of you have put together….
my own recent essay has manifested itself in an unusual way… i have a heavy heart today for my friend Uptown (see "work in progress")….i think we can never become detached from our work….objectivity is supposed to be the mantra, but i am not sure that is ever really possible…what do you think??? are we ever really totally objective or does human nature prevail and we sometimes get "too close"???
I don’t believe in objective photojournalism or photography. By chosing the lens, the angle you photograph, and the approach to the subject you’re already given you’re opinion about it.
If I don’t get “too close” I normally don’t get the same results. I prefer to “get close” to people until I can almost understand how they think, even if I don’t agree with it. Unfortunatly most of times there’s no time/money for that, but I’d like to think that in my own projects I’ll always work this way.
The main problem is editing after getting “too close”, because there are always some photos that only have emotional value and are hard to let go. This takes a lot of time of my workflow.
Also when I’m “too close” to a subject after finishing it I feel somehow depressed or hanged over for some days, and I’m unable to shoot. Those are the days of editing and photoshoping :)
My two cents…
Hi David, and also Michael.
This is more for Michael. I couldnt quite understand your e-mail that you sent on the 13th. For that reason, to be safe, I re-uploaded 20 photos just now. If you have the ones I uploaded before then just omit the ones I put up now. If not, use them:)
Thanks Michael.
David,
really cool process. Happy to participate and finally start shooting stories, however well or not. But it was a fun process and a good shift in approach. I owe it to you. Thanks.
Interesting about attachment. I get attached to photos like Sofia, though noit that much:) Havent yet had the chance to get in so close to a subject that it would effect me in such a way as Uptown’s story has had an effect on you. Yes but without such an outcome. Hopefully he pulls through, and hopefully he turns himself around. Be of good mind David, but be prepared for the worst just in case.
I understand what you say, I recently showed two stories to a friend of mine, after reviewing them he told me that he could feel that I was not engaged the same on the second story, he could feel it… That was quite amazing to hear this as he was totally right… I can make better pictures when I feel closer to the people I am shooting… On the other hand he told me to stay detached, not to care about the people I shoot… I don’t know, it seems to me that you have to enter their privacy (socially not paparrazingly) in order to understand them, the way they act, the way they move… Thus I feel more comfortable to shoot and render the best of their own, they are the stars of the show and I think that this is totally normal for a human being to “love” the people you wander with, even for a very short period of time…
Objectivity me arse. No such thing. At least not in my case.
I’m not sure about “too close.” But I don’t think it’s possible to be completely objective. We are humans. We feel. Empathy makes true objectivity next to impossible. (Just assuming none of us are sociopaths in here!)
Yoichi Okamoto once told me–I was lucky enough to assist him once (Long time ago. I was a newbie little dork at the time)–that to be a good photographer you must be able to cry. Being so moved by a beautiful scene or a painful, emotional moment that you find youself on the verge of tears is in fact a good thing for a photographer. I never forgot that.
David: i as well as my friend w robert angell have work ready in a folder to submit however are unable to do so. Any suggestions. All i can say is that i worked really hard on this project as well as anyone else. Putting all of myself in the moment %110 heart mind body and soul. Would break my heart to be eliminated from participation just because i didn’t understand how to send my files properly. I’m certain that I’m missing some key information. if anyone could be so kind as to enlighten me to the process i would be eternally grateful as this forum means the world to me. I have to work today and time is of the essence. Please respond immediately..
David- sorry for your friend this unfortunately goes with the territory of being a photographer. Lets face it how many of us would have any interaction with our subjects if it wasn’t for our cameras ? Our cameras i believe are our introduction into the unknown realms of reality in which we all so diligently try to record in an honest or objective way. Is objectivity possible in the truest sense of the word ? i don’t think so. although we can come to a more authentic place of understanding in a human way by steering our vessel in the realm of objective ideologies.
P.S. please encourage your assistant Michael to answer my e-mail questions as i must participate with everyone else; please..
truly; robert
Today:
god-bless poor Mr. Michael: he’ll need an Ark…it’ll be like the Great Deluge….
yo, someone get that man (both) a drink! ;))
cheers
bob
I;ve left a comment under Work in Progress addressing your last question ;)))
bob
robert:
you guys can load via ftp. the address is:
WHERE TO UPLOAD WORK
http://ftp.digitalrailroad.net
login: davidalanharvey-blog
password: upload
use one of the ftp file transfer programs. i have a mac and use the program Cyber Duck:
http://cyberduck.ch/
just download the program: it is very very simplE!!!!!….
ive got a busy busy day today, but if you have a problem, you can send the files to me at my private email and i will upload for you….but, try first yourself: you should learn FTP it is the way to do things now and many agencies/galleries/competitions etc require….
let me know
bob
You beat me to it Bob. I’ll have time late tonight too if for some reason Bob is unavailable. I’ve uploaded mine and a client I needed to get stuff to for tomorrow has given me till Monday. So after I get back from school meeting tonight I too can help.
Email is
photo@paultreacy.com
Google Fetch or Transport FTP and you’ll be all set.
May your day be lucky.
David
It is so hard to be objective about something you care about.Taking a photograph is making a connection. Looking for the soul you are giving a piece of your own. My “career” was as a nurse. I think the same”problem” existed there. Leaving work “behind” when I went home was sometimes impossible. From “No Man Is an Island”–”each man’s joy is joy to me, each man’s grief is my own.” However, when you have a job to do, you just have to do it. Getting close to people means a lot of painful good-byes–but also the joy of being a part of their lives in some way.
I am disappointed in myself that I have not put together something I feel like I want to send for the group project–even with the extension in time. However, I am shooting more and trying to “find my way.” This site has helped me in that. Thank you,David,for giving this challenge and making this site available. I look forward to seeing everyone’s work–and hope that if you do this again, I will have something I can contribute
and share. I would like to get a copy of your new book–not only for the photographs, but I am interested in reading “The Struggle.” Also, thank you for your very nice comment. Your kind words make me want to “do better.”
Rosemary
I am guessing that the file size needs to be about a meg or so? Right? I should have noted it but I did not, and now I can’t find it. What sizes have people sent in? I should have asked this before today….so 10 in ches at the longest by 72 dpi? Maybe?
David
It is so hard to be objective about something you care about.Taking a photograph is making a connection. Looking for the soul you are giving a piece of your own. My “career” was as a nurse. I think the same”problem” existed there. Leaving work “behind” when I went home was sometimes impossible. From “No Man Is an Island”–”each man’s joy is joy to me, each man’s grief is my own.” However, when you have a job to do, you just have to do it. Getting close to people means a lot of painful good-byes–but also the joy of being a part of their lives in some way.
I am disappointed in myself that I have not put together something I feel like I want to send for the group project–even with the extension in time. However, I am shooting more and trying to “find my way.” This site has helped me in that. Thank you,David,for giving this challenge and making this site available. I look forward to seeing everyone’s work–and hope that if you do this again, I will have something I can contribute
and share. I would like to get a copy of your new book–not only for the photographs, but I am interested in reading “The Struggle.” Also, thank you for your very nice comment. Your kind words make me want to “do better.”
Rosemary
So David, what can we do to show our appreciation to Michael for all his hard work?
I have something I’d like to send him. Can I send through you?
Cheers,
Paulyman
Tom, etc..
Submission Guidelines
1) Resize all images to be 2,000 pixels on the longest side
2) Input your copyright and description into the images metadata.
3) Save as a JPG with a quality of 10 or higher. (Best Quality)
4) Name all images with your last name then first name and sequential number. (Smith_John_001.jpg)
5) Put all images into a folder on your desktop with your first and last name on it.
6) Now you are ready to upload to Digital Railroad you will need an ftp client program.
Here are 2 free ftp programs you can download and use if you do not have one.
http://cyberduck.ch/ (for Mac users) http://filezilla-project.org/ (for PC or Mac users)
WHERE TO UPLOAD WORK
http://ftp.digitalrailroad.net
login: davidalanharvey-blog
password: upload
Bob- I searched all over the site yesterday and couldn’t find the guidelines Erica posted above, yet I’ve already uploaded my files. Would it be ok if I re-uploaded my folder with the above guidelines in place? Can you just ignore my previous upload? Sorry to be such a pain!
Hi David & all;
in what manner could one attempt to define objectivity…i do not think it possible as even in science the subjective nature of positivism had to be embraced;
rather, i think the constructionist epistimology allows for a semblance of an objective style|approach, aka the Bechers, perhaps Shore, maybe some Evans (doubtful, though), if so required; but by definition i think the subjective nature of the self prevails simply, because, perception, by nature, is subjective and tied to the individual in both a physiological, sociological and psychological way…it is the only way in which photography can make sense to me..why I can rationalise spending precious time and resources on it; NO ONE ELSE PERCEIVES THE WORLD AS I DO, i think….and this allows me to reflect some perceived facet of the world back into the world for reflection…
Exciting day! I’m so looking forward to everyone’s stories. Michael, I kind of spaced and forgot to add copyright info to a handful of my images. If you have time, please let me know if it’s necessary to resend.
Best o’ Luck to All!
David M
Uptown and upload, the events of the week’s beginning are playing puns on us.
The upload, I could do something about it, miraculously, it went without an itch. I do not have a ftp program, I just signed in the http://ftp.dig RR site, and copied my whole essay into the folder “submissions” there. Then e-mail Michael (blogquestion @…) who kindly replied he got my folder. I knew I was doing something right when the 16MB or so of documents took about 10 minutes to upload.
About Uptown, David, that we can’t do anything is the most frustrating, yet, if there is ever a chance we can send him a word, a card, a call maybe, please do let us know how to write the hospital or any way to get it to him.
Thru and thanks to you, Uptown is bound to be no stranger to us anymore, and there are enough lines dividing people in this country/world that when someone like you bridges them, we can add our footsteps to it.
Hello,
Not sure if the photos I submitted reached the site or not – hoping they did. Should be twenty there – two sets of ten.
Checking out the Uptown story now – it is better, more often than not, to be less objective, I think. We see the world as we see it, and we should present it as we see it. A veneer of subjectivity is often nothing more than that – a thin, slightly deceptive veneer. Underneath, in everything we create, is our thinking, our consciousness.
Gareth.
Thanks all i’m off now to work an 8 hour shift waiting tables to earn my bread and butter. As soon as my work is finished i will be here
giving my best to following the directions above me. Sure is nice to know that others care and respond accordingly. Now if i can make this all happen on time. Meaning Davids time which is three hours ahead of me; whew. Also will take a moment today to pray for Uptown to pull through his ordeal and to come out the other side a better man. Get Well Soon UPTOWN !! Wishing you the BEST !!
Ok I re-uploaded, again sorry to be complicated!
David. I’ve been a long-time “silent” reader of this great blog/body of work. Thanks for this opportunity, I look forward to seeing the entries!
David,
This talk of ‘objectivity’ vs. ‘subjectivity’ harks back to some earlier discussions I can remember here. Philosophically and psychologically a very, very deep topic! … and while I don’t think it’s wrong to consider it in that wider context of human experience, communication, and understanding, I think what we’re really talking about here is the down-to-earth problem a photojournalist or any kind of journalist faces all the time. To get close enough to get pictures or stories with emotional impact, we have to have enough rapport and sympathy to get ‘close’ psychologically to the people we’re dealing with. Comes with the territory. The ability to do that I’d call simply ‘humanity.’ But journalism is also a profession, and a very important one in complex societies. Part of the power, justification, and credibility of that profession comes from the fact that the audience believes that what is being presented to it is not only true in a very specific (‘subjective’) sense, but also is representative of something in a larger context. So to some extent it is inevitable that ‘objectivity’ has to be a consideration. In a way it’s an impossible contradiction, but it’s also an inevitable ongoing argument and tension that comes with the territory. How can one do good journalism without passion and involvement? But how can one present something approximating ‘the truth’ without at least a kernel of objectivity? Can you turn your humanity off and on to ‘get the story’ and then walk away from it? Of course not. But there are many forms of understanding, some involving passionate involvement, some involving stepping back and coolly observing from the middle distance, and I think we need them all. I don’t think it’s necessarily a conscious decision where one may fall on this spectrum, and it probably changes from day to day, certainly from story to story.
There is tragedy in the world… there is also joy. There is hope… and also despair. And ugliness, and beauty. I don’t feel that we’re free to choose to experience one and not the other.
But objectivity, (maybe ‘detachment’ is a better word?) for all it’s built-in contradictions, also has a place. Think about what photography is… half artistic, individual perception, half photo-mechanical process that is a mirror of exterior reality. We use the term ‘objective lens’ in optics… so the whole vehicle of photography always has this dual nature of subjectivity and objectivity.
As Herve has said, because of your work, we all got some insight into Uptown’s world, and some sense of him as a human being. Part of you is still living in that world… inevitably, even if you’re physically sitting in some hotel room in Bangkok in relative comfort and safety. And feeling for your friend, whom you may be relatively powerless to help…
Bon Courage, mon ami…
Sidney
I just spent an hour thinking about this and managed to contradict myself with ever other thought.
And you are shooting animals!!! ;-)
I loved the gallery on the cheetah and the puppied learning to curb their “charge”, Harry.
About objectivity, lack of it may be a problem on today’s newspaper front page, but since David, you have propped us so much on the subject, how can one possibly diminish the value of subjectivity inherent to authorship?.
Plus, once the book/article is out, comes in the objectivity and subjectivity of the reader/viewer.
One thing I have always frowned upon, and the description of an image with the intent to force on the reader what he/she must “think”. What I call editorializing one’s photography. Here again, David, you have come closely to the artist not having to explain itself, but let his craft talk for itself.
In VIETNAM INC (great book), I thought that a note of dissonance was introduced by Griffith Jones commentary whose seeming objectivity, but actually emotional subjectivity, bloated his photographic message. It tended in my mind, since it was so repeated, to compete with the images, especially as captions. I suppose when published, few dared to talk of the dumbing down of the Pax Americana then, and he felt the need to.
errata:
1)”is the” description, not “and the”…
2)His/her, not just his. I hate when I forget the feminine pronouns. The anime in me, I guess…. :-)
David, I’m very sorry to hear about your friend, Uptown, who is not only a figure in your photos, but who is also so clearly one of your creative partners (remember the thread about collaborations with subjects and editors?).
Regarding objectivity, I agree completely that photographers can never become detached and objective, at least not if the photographs are to convey anything meaningful.
But going to the opposite extreme, what is “too close”? Was Stieglitz “too close” to O’Keefe, so that his emotional proximity adversely affected his portraits of her? Or did it make them even more compelling than Adams’ and others’ photographs of her? I think the latter…:
Georgia O’Keefe by Stieglitz:
http://www.vam.ac.uk/images/image/4592-popup.html
Georgia O’Keefe by Yousuf Karsh:
http://www.shermanhinesphotographymuseum.com/museum%20images/collect_karsh/karsh-photo.jpg
Georgia O’Keefe by Ansel Adams:
http://www.ralphmag.org/DC/georgia-okeefe503x370.gif
This recent assignment from you has educated me in several ways. One lesson I learned is that my most compelling photographs (my personal bests) come only when I have a connection with my subject (duh), but also that the stronger the bond and the deeper my understanding of the subject, the more I “see”.
How about Jim Nachtwey? Obviously, he takes a personal stake in the events, places and people he is covering, but does it amount to any subjectivity inside the image shot beyond making the strongest case possible, that is.
It seems to me the personal (ie. what I think we call subjective here) in him is in his intent, not in his pictures.
Isn’t the strength of his images in the very fact he is striving successfully to be a mere medium (the greatest art, of course, because it reaches onto the perenniality of the human experience/suffering, which we can touch directly without the slightest encumbrance or distraction related to who shot it) between that which is happening and us?
Oh, the deadline has finally arrived and the tension is palpable now, boys and girls…as for objectivity, does it really exist? Our personal views, by definition, color every aspect of our relationships with other people. I think that a bias honestly acknowledged and dealt with is better than pretending that we are somehow neutral in a given situation, especially when our actions, which almost always speak louder than our words, tell the people that we are dealing with that we are not, in fact, being objective. Having a prejudice towards one side or another and letting people know that you have this prejudice is alway preferable to pretending otherwise and opening yourself up to accusations of hypocrisy.
Managed to upload my 24 shots. I wish they were all in a single roll.
I find it hard to be too close for long and still get interesting shots. There’s some point at which I need to get a bit further away and explore the topic at hand from a new angle. I think that as obviously we are biased on everything we do, the only way to minimally work against the bias is to add shots of all ‘flavours’, not allowing any single story to be told from the image flow. There’s always a bit of good and bad and sad and funny on everything.
sorry to be bringing up this issue again, but what do you do once you have accessed the submissions folder, every time I try and drag my folder into the submissions folder, it shoots it back onto the desktop w/ a popup saying submission could not be modified. Can someone shed some light on what to do once the submission folder has popped up in the http://ftp.digitalrailroad.net window. I am stumped.
I’m sorry for your friend and for your grief. I once spent the summer in a really rough suburban ghetto and it changed the way I look at the world. As a privileged white girl I was taught that we make our own destiny, but I know better now.
As far as objectivity goes, I’m not sure I know what that is. As a photographer, I try to detach myself from my finished work so I can continue to improve and show my best work, but I don’t think that means being detached from our subjects. How can we remain objective and sort of mentally turned off if we are trying to make images that will compel the viewer and make a statement? I’m also in the “objectivity never really exists camp.”
I’ve embraced it. My goal is not to change the world but to let the world change me.
WRobert..I don’t know, but maybe try bringing photos in one at a time, not in the folder?
This close/too close is greatly of interest, but I am out the door now. However, I keep thinking of what Arbus said:
”For me the subject of the picture is always more important than the picture, and more complicated.”
all right, I give up.
Paul or BobB, I would like to send over to your email 8 images, if you could forward them to the http://ftp.digitalrailroad.net I will love you forever.
If you have no news from Paul and Bob, Wrobert, and since my uploading worked fine, I can try to do it for you, Wrobert (what is the w for?). send to
kinginexile@yahoo.com
It’s already the 16th in Bangkok! Go, go, go…;-)
I think it’s funny how the standards for objectivity are so different for photojournalism vs. print journalism. Print journalism rarely if ever relies solely on a reporter taking quotes that come out of a subject’s mouth naturally – that’s the whole point behind the interview, it’s a manufactured situation. I guess a portrait would be the photographic equivalent of an interview, but for the remainder of the time (when we’re just trying to blend in to the background), I think photography is much more objective than print reporting, which must rely on a limited set of emotionally-charged words, can ever hope to be. That’s not to knock print journalism (or radio, for that matter), just that maybe the conception of a photograph as a perfect representation of reality leads to warped expectations on our part.
Well, I just tried some friends who are a server provider, and they said that it seemed to go through from there location, but they sent them piece by piece, not sure about that, maybe I could send you the email just to be on the safe side.
the W is warren, thats me.
thanks Herve
OK wait a minuet, I also sent the shots to Paul Treacy, and he said he has it covered, and I will love you forever, so I seem to have pulled it off at the last second.
thanks alot Paul.
But my friend at libertypictures may need some help now, Herve, maybe he could email the shots over to you, I know he is at work right now, but when he gets home I will call him ,to look at these comments. Thanks for helping, very cool of you guys.
You’re all set Warren. Love me forever baby!
Paulyman.
Now I have to make dinner for my crew. Organic turkey burgers.
Best of luck everyone.
Paul
Hi David. Objectivity to my work is probably the hardest thing to achieve, if ever possible.. I sometimes try to “forget” the photos I took and after some time, trying to come back to them to get the fresher look. That helps a little to eliminate the ones which “passed” at first time, maybe because of the emotions involved when selecting them straight after taking them.. Ok.. back to reality now..
To much time spent on post processing equals less time for tasting Real life. That is probably like watching TV in the hotel room instead of doing what needs to be done. ;)
Hi Michael, I have uploaded photos but I’m not quite sure if all three folders went OK, as I could only see the first one after that. I’m a bit worry. Could You check if everything’s fine please?
Thanks!
Maciej Mosur
Dear David,
I have uploaded my photo essay. Thank you for this opportunity. I am concerned that they were uploaded, my computer said completed, but I am still worried.Is there any way of confirming the submission.
yours truly
Edwin Padilla Villa
Hi David and Michael !
I’ve just submitted my work. Now I can go to bed…
Please let me know if all worked correctly (I’m not sure the text I’ve uncluded can be read).
Thanks very much !
Pierre-Yves
I don’t know what objectivity is when I look through my lens. There’s only the world as I see it out there, only my feelings reflected in the glass.
Good luck to everyone with this assignment!
Giancarlo
Now that my second batch is uploaded and confirmed received, it seems like a good moment to pause and reflect briefly on what I sent in. I started as a landscape photographer, way back when, who also enjoyed ‘environmental portraiture’ though I didn’t know it was called that. Later I primarily took photographs to use as a geography teacher and researcher, I guess they were half travel- half social documentary, but usually emphasizing the sense of place and the environments rather than the people in them as individuals. I tried to imbue them with aesthetic qualities, but the primary goal was usually to produce information-dense ‘documents’. This was all on slide film using an SLR. But I lived for two decades in Japan, and that is a big snapshot culture where people habitually take pictures of each other at almost all social events to give as souvenirs and presents, so I started using pocket point-and-shoots in that context, and taking mainly people pictures (but largely of people I already knew) on print film. That was a looser style that I also enjoyed, but I still aspired to well-composed ‘cultural landscapes’. When I moved back to the US ten years ago I decided to get a little more serious and systematic about photography as a possible occupation rather than a hobby. I deliberately tried all kinds of photography I hadn’t done before, took a few workshops with Nat. Geo. photographers, learned to digitally scan, process, and print, and met a few other photographers locally who I could bounce ideas off. When I went thru my archive, it seemed to be mostly travel, landscape and nature, or environmental portraits. I also had a number of good classic portraits, but they were again people I already knew. I felt that where I was weak was in getting close to people who I didn’t already know and engaging them to the point where both they and I would feel comfortable if I took photographs. This was something I really had to work at, but I did and had some good results. But as often as not I would fall back into the landscape view, really my most natural way of seeing, in which people were part of the environment and not the subject as individuals.
I remember a few months back David on the blog writing about Alex Webb being someone who ‘where others might take one step forward, he takes one step back’ and I realized that what I was deliberately doing in my summer project was taking two, or even three, steps back as an experiment. That was in fact what the project was about for me- could I do that and still make pictures that were interesting? There are people, lots of them, in my first twenty, but with two exceptions, the pictures are really landscapes, the people are figures in the landscape, and the view is deliberately detached. But in late September and October I went the other way, trying to get close to people and make people the main subject, even though they are in ‘environments’ and sense of place is very strong. I was trying for more emotional content, which I felt was largely lacking in the earlier series, and a looser and faster style. Did I succeed? I think so, I hope so. While the two batches show styles that may seem somewhat different, I think there is enough overlap to reveal consistent ‘authorship’. Does one batch or the other more accurately reflect ‘who I am’ as a photographer? I don’t know. But I definitely got to stretch in both, and I’m very grateful for the opportunity and the stimulus to do that stretching.
Now what I really want is to see everybody else’s work and hear what they think they learned in the process, and forget about my own.
Sidney
hello, is anyone around who can help me?
i went to: http://ftp.digitalrailroad.net
to try and upload my photos and i got this:
’530 log-in incorrect’
under username i put: davidalanharvey-blog
under password i put: upload
what am i doing wrong?
iamkatia@gmail.com
thank you! and i might need some help with the ftp too.
i’ve never dealt with it before.
appreciate it..
katia
Okay, I had to attempt log in twice. I retyped in case there was an error in the password. Anyway, ’twas fine. When you’ve logged on, you’ll unlikely be able to select a folder to send, rather you should simply drag the folder from you desktop to the submissions folder you’ll see upon login.
Good luck.